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A distinction without a difference

Posted on September 11, 2014 by

Earlier today we showed you a clip from a press conference in which Alex Salmond schooled the BBC’s Nick Robinson in some basic financial facts about Corporation Tax, and went on to make a serious allegation about wrongdoing between the BBC and the UK Treasury, in which he claimed that the latter had broken Parliamentary rules by leaking market-sensitive information about RBS.

The BBC dutifully reported the story later in the day.

And as far as we can gather, the First Minister has everyone bang to rights.

Because the Treasury’s official reponse, as reported by senior political correspondent Norman Smith, appears to be “Yes, we did break the rules, but it wasn’t our fault because some journalists asked us questions about things we’re not allowed to talk about, so obviously we had to ignore the rules and talk about them.”

As cases for the defences go, it’s somewhere alongside “The voices in my head made me do it”. The all-pervading omnipanic engulfing the parties of the Union and the UK media over the closeness of recent referendum opinion polls has caused so much extraordinary behaviour in recent days that it’s hard to keep track of it all, but we suspect we haven’t heard the last of this one.

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    1. 11 09 14 17:59

      A distinction without a difference | FreeScotland

    272 to “A distinction without a difference”

    1. Phil Robertson says:

      “Alex Salmond schooled the BBC’s Nick Robinson in some basic financial facts about Corporation Tax” But he got it wrong. AS stated that, as a matter of fact, corporation tax is paid on “the basis of where there is economic activity.”

      Corporation Tax is a tax on the taxable profits of limited companies. As we already know from the activities of Google and others, the key point is not where the economic activity occurred but where the profits are declared.

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      Do as we say, not as we do. F-wits.

    3. Freedom Lover says:

      I sincerely believe the recent “Dunkirk Mode” of the British media, in particular the BBC, emanates from the conviction they’re in a state of War to protect the Established Order- the first casualty of war is Truth & anything is permissible in war as long as the end is victory. This push for Independence has really brought into stark light the full extent of the Corporate takeover of the UK- Banks, Private Corporations, the Super-Rich coming together in a massive co-ordinated plan of attack: how bad is it when 50% of the population have to wait to a Sunday ( Sunday Herald) to access a news outlet that publishes news in a tone sympathetic to your own cause? How bad does it have to get before NO voters see things for what they are?

    4. Indy_Scot says:

      If these corrupt people beat us, then there is no such thing as justice.

    5. Welsh and envious says:

      How dare those journalists publish a leak given to them by HM Treasury. Is this being scripted by Iannucci? Keep it going WOS.

    6. Moonshine says:

      Earlier, the Treasury was saying that it was information that was already in the public domain! Hmm. Now it appears that hard questions were being asked … and it slipped out!

    7. Skip_NC says:

      Not necessarily so, Phil. If a taxing authority deals with a multi-national company, the Double Taxation Agreement between the countries involved will control. I imagine Scotland will adopt UK tax legislation on Day One of an independent Scotland. If so, that would treat a foreign company as a Scottish one, to the extent that it derives profit from economic activity in Scotland (subject to the provisions of a DTA, which may provide a measure of relief for the company). AS is correct in broad terms.

      As for the video, dealing in insider information is a crime, and has been for almost thirty years. It has, as AS said earlier, nothing to do with the campaign. It should, as a matter of urgency, be a police matter.

    8. Chris says:

      Oh my days does this reporter even know what he is saying. BBC acting above the law again!

    9. Martin says:

      My job involves almost exclusively confidential information(I’m not allowed to talk about it) and if people ask me for said information I tell them I’m not allowed to discuss it. But of course, the treasury are above the law

    10. Juteman says:

      I see that ex Australian PR failure has given some lackey the job of watching Wings, and being first to the thread.
      I know you have always been fair with posters on this blog Stu, but as we enter the home closing stages, i would employ NoBetterTogether tactics, and just ban anyone from the other side.

    11. wingman 2020 says:

      @Freedom Lover

      How bad does it have to get before NO voters see things for what they are?

      There are lots of people who will never ‘get it’, but it doesn’t matter… the UK is on a financial and political knife edge and regardless of YES or NO, there is going to be a problem in the London Markets and English voters very soon.

      A half decent financial meltdown will stop the gradual erosion (theft) of wealth from ordinary people and cause a reaction that rips the power from the Westminster elite.

      There is a financial tsunami headed towards the UK. It will be painful but it will change the established order where democracy is powerless.

    12. Andrew Morton says:

      There are at least two flat out lies in that report.

    13. Derek M says:

      so let me see if this is correct they admit to breaking parliamentary rules but it wasnt their fault as some journalists asked them to ,and so that makes it alright does it, you couldnt make this stuff up ,what a shower of inept corrupt lying gits ,and they wonder why we want nothing to do with them jeez facepalm.

    14. David S Briggs says:

      That explanation is fucking pathetic. I take it anyone else in government and business will be able to use the defence of ‘a journalist asked me’ when he’s in the dock at The Old Bailey?

    15. Juteman says:

      On second thoughts, ignore my last post.
      Why should we lower ourselves to their level.

    16. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      How ironic is the still frame that opens this link below (Alex mauls Robinson this morning)… one states that Scotland is about to secure the most exciting event in their history… BUT, the ticker tape seems to indicate just about the most chilling and realistic option the ewekay have in the unlikely event of a NO vote!!No need to even start the sequence, just look at the two headlines!! … and btw, keep going ALBA, almost within your grasp – PLEASE don’t get downhearted now with all the thunder coming your way – it’ll pass and the sun will shine even brighter then! – shoulder to shoulder, person by person, truth by truth, heart to heart…

    17. Andrew Morton says:

      If Phil Robertson is right, then a British company could earn profits in the US and declare them in Liechtenstein, a patent absurdity.

    18. MajorBloodnok says:

      So, the Treasury was asked about Lloyds at first, and then when questioned on other banks’ intentions (presumably) volunteered what RBS was about to announce?

      So basically it looks like they’ve broken the law and in looking to blame the journalists have just incriminated themselves.

      I wonder is this is the same lot that multiplied Professor Dunleavy’s set-up costs estimate by a factor of 12 through a mixture of malice and incompetence?

      In short, I’m not sure I want this bunch of incompetents running my country’s finances any longer…

    19. fred blogger says:

      we’re are the borg resistance is futile!
      they are without shame, what next ffs, accompanied to the ballot box?

    20. Indy_Scot says:

      The BBC up to dirty tricks, now that surprises me.

    21. Andy-B says:

      O/T Rev I do apologise.

      Sky news allegedly claim ASDA, will put their prices up if Scotland becomes independent.

    22. David Turner says:

      If anybody believes that load of crap they need their heads looked at.

    23. manandboy says:

      With a week to go, I’m going to brace myself,
      spread the word
      – and stay away from TV.

    24. AS I posted on another Wings thread earlier today – there is no trick too-dirty for the Establishment, they will do what they can to save London Rule.

      Always remember – Britannia Waives the Rules.

    25. Brian Mcculloch says:

      There is no other way of saying it. ‘It was a big boy!’

    26. call me dave says:

      Go to Aldi or Lidl, shop around

    27. McHaggis says:

      Wait, what?!

      The treasury never leaked the info but released it when asked…

      Does this reporter realise just how fucking stupid he has appeared to be?

    28. Phil Robertson says:


      I think it would be a Double Taxation treaty. That is a separate measure. Corporation tax however is still levied on declared profits. The treaty doesn’t change that.

    29. Rev, I’ve sent you a wee email on this.

      This is my open letter to everyone in the Labour camp. I am under no illusions about changing minds … we’re far past that point. But some of them might feel stirrings of shame.

    30. manandboy says:

      Maybe the London Labour have come up for the Walk in Ednbru.

      I hope they’ve packed their sashes carefully.

      There’s nothing worse than a sash that’s all creased.

    31. A.N.Surgent says:

      They really do think we button up the back. Hope this goes all
      the way to the courts and straight to jail.

    32. manandboy:

      I thought the same myself this morning when I saw those clips.

    33. call me dave says:

      Who was the masked man in the tricycle, we never got to thank him?

      I think the peddler was called Tonto.

      Hi Ho Silver!

    34. David S Briggs says:

      @Phil Robertson

      “Corporation Tax is a tax on the taxable profits of limited companies. As we already know from the activities of Google and others, the key point is not where the economic activity occurred but where the profits are declared.”

      I’m a simple soul Phil and maybe an economic illiterate, but any Company doing business in an Independent Scotland will pay tax on their earnings in Scotland to the Scottish Treasury not anywhere else. They wont be doing business in Scotland otherwise. My bet is Salmond is correct and you aren’t.

    35. Al says:

      The following is taken from the HMRC’s own website at

      “Who is subject to Corporation Tax requirements?

      The following limited companies and unincorporated organisations are subject to Corporation Tax requirements:

      -limited companies incorporated in the UK
      -foreign-based companies with a permanent place of business in the UK…”

      While AFAIK there is no obligation on iScotland to have the same Corporation Tax rules as rUK, if it did, the second point there would appear to cover rUK based businesses with a permanent place of business and therefore business activity in iScotland.

    36. Britannia waves the rules again but can’t do anything about the powerful solar flare to hit us tonight the skies should be alight.

    37. Seasick Dave says:

      Great letter James; a must read for any Labour voters.

    38. Derek M says:

      @ Andy-B well let them and see how long it takes before they are run out of Scotland as im sure Aldi and Lidl and maybe a new kid on the block will be ever so happy to take over their market share ,this old trick by corporations holding countries to ransom should be challenged they are not all powerful ,it is the consumer who holds the power same goes for the banks ,not happy then get lost there will be others waiting in the wings ready to take control of the Scottish market share,one of the biggest lies forced on us by neo-liberalism and their rich buddies,to hell with the lot of them.

    39. G H Graham says:

      ASDA can like any business, raise or lower prices at will for no other reason than it thinks it will get away with it without negatively affecting margins or profits.

      But rarely do businesses operate without competition & when they do, others are surely to fill the gap as sure as night follows day.

      So if anyone thinks ASDA is behaving like a spoiled child & rejects their price hike, there are plenty of alternative companies that would be delighted to take your money.

      That’s how the free market works. Perhaps ASDA should join Nick “I’m an idiot working at the BBC” Robinson & join a basic refresher course in economics.

    40. A.N.Surgent says:

      James Forest

      You are a true Labour Man. Utmost RESPECT

    41. Christian Schmidt says:

      What is even more astounding that the BBC journalists just accepted this ‘blame the messenger’ statement without pointing out that the responsibility for answers always lies with person who answers, not with the questioner…

    42. fred blogger says:

      David S Briggs
      correct, if salmond was wrong they would have been all over him like a rash.

    43. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Good to watch the BBC trying to rewrite the history of the press conference on the 6 o clock news. Notable though is the admission by Nick 2 arses that the big supermarkets spent the afternoon at No 10 having tea with Dave, just before they announced prices will of course rise as per a Westminster script. We are the only country in history that have our future script rewritten by somebody else every five minutes. The only way to stop it is to vote Yes. Then we write our own future, our own way. I don’t know about anybody else but their naked disinformation on the BBC makes it look like we live in an old communist state.

    44. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Do you remember what the ordinary people did to SHELL over the Brent Spar debacle? Answer: brought them to account.

      Time, methinks, that we apply similar to the RBS, ASDA…rabble etc etc

    45. HandandShrimp says:


      where the profits are declared.

      Bit academic in relation to these banks.

    46. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Is that the Lloyds banks who are not even registereed in Scotland, Mr BBc ?

    47. Sonas says:

      The Treasury seems to be largely staffed with very bright young things in their 20s with good, expensive educations. I’ve met a few, and on one occasion I was surprised to discover how senior the 27-year-old I met was – I was looking around for his boss. He was the boss.

      I realise that sounds very patronising and also makes me sound like I’m about 80. But it seems that overconfidence coupled with lack of experience is starting to show – similarly with the hash they made of trying to spin Patrick Dunleavy’s research.

      Just arrogance, basically.

    48. A.N.Surgent says:


      We live in the new capitalist state drawing their inspiration
      from the two worst regimes in modern history Nazi Germany and
      Stalinist Russia

    49. Greannach says:

      I would be delighted to see Tesco leaving. When they bought over Wm Low’s back in the 80s, the distribution centre was shut and products sent up from England. Tesco sells so few Scottish products that they need to attach a little saltire to the shelves they’re to be found on, and it’s hardly a forest of flags.

      If they leave – or any of the rest of them – a gap will open up in the market either for a Scottish supermarket chain, buying from Scottish producers, or Lidl, Aldi, Norma, Netto, Penny or any of the others in mainland Europe will fill the gap.

      It’s amazing that Tesco was in like a rat up a drainpipe to Slovakia, the Czech Republic etc after communism collapsed, yet they’ll be behaving differently in Scotland.

      I won’t be buying as much as a box of matches from them from now on, and I hope nobody else will.

      I hope it’s not Auf Wiedersehen, Tesco, but Goodbye.

    50. Murray McCallum says:

      With sharp people like Norman Smith keeping an eye on things we can be safe in the knowledge that there can’t possibly be any corruption in the UK.

      If he were a prosecution lawyer there would be no one in prison.

    51. Tom Garrett says:

      A big boy did it and ran away, honest!

    52. McHaggis says:

      Phil, let me get this straight…

      You think Google and others pay no corporation tax in the UK because they declare the profits elsewhere. Is *that* what you are saying?


      Sorry Rev, but this guy is a fucking imbecile.

    53. McHaggis says:


      google and others pay no corporation tax here because they are *very* good at using every loophole in the book to write off/spend profit so as to declare none to the treasury. They do it perfectly legally – abiding by the treasuries own rules.

      Now, everyone blamed google, starbucks, amazon etc when all they were doing is following the bloody rules. To me, thats not their fault, but the fault of the rules. Tighten them up and get these companies to pay their share. It *Really* is as simple as that.

    54. bookie from hell says:

      BBC putting galloway up 8000 16,17 years olds so he can spread his bile


      think it will backfire


    55. paul gerard mccormack says:

      I wonder who was round the table and how long it took them to thrash out what the line would be?
      I really look forward to seeing the results of the public enquiry into this debacle chaired by lord Haw Haw.

    56. call me dave says:

      Update on woman across the road and up a wee bit who was sporting a NO flag on her car. We had a few words yesterday when she refused a WBB. I wrote on a thread yesterday.

      We both arrived at our respective houses a wee while ago in our cars, took my grand daughter to the school disco, anyway no NO flag!

      I never said but got a wee, ‘wave’ well a hand gesture really, I acknowledge the same. No words were spoken.

      Maybe…. maybe going to a DK.

    57. Skip_NC says:

      Phil, if a Scottish Company does business in Scotland, it will be taxed in Scotland. Agreed? If a foreign company does business in Scotland, it will compute its tax in accordance with the laws laid down by each taxing authority, subject to the over-riding provisions of the DTA. it should go without saying, but I will say it anyway – the point of a Double Taxation Agreement is to allow cross-border companies to pay tax once on the same profits. the intention, in most cases, is to pay tax where the money is earned.

      Of course, not every situation will fall neatly into the provisions of a DTA. that is where large companies can indulge in avoidance. The task of Revenue Scotland will be to draft laws and agree DTAs that minimize that risk. I doubt Revenue Scotland could do a worse job than a (sadly politicized) HMRC has done lately.

    58. fred blogger says:

      so arrogant, all self consuming, to think normally they’d get away with this.
      the worm has turned, more and more people will come out for yes, because of this.
      this is a vital issue of trust betrayal, seen now, clearly as it is, as juxtaposed with salmond’s statement!

    59. HandandShrimp says:

      I see Morrisons have said that they see no reason to raise prices and we know that Aldi and Lidl don’t care about the referendum. So if Asda and others want to price themselves out of the market that is their affair. It is a cut throat sector.

    60. Andy says:

      So cameron had all the cheifs of the stores that are putting there prices up in a meeting in num10 today SHOCHEROONY

    61. Andy says:


    62. TD says:

      G H Graham

      You are absolutely right about Asda and others and their threats to raise prices. They operate in a competitive market – if it was so easy to put prices up why don’t they do it anyway, whatever the result of the vote?

      This really is just posturing – if they did put their prices up they would simply lose market share. Interesting that Tesco have said they would hold their prices steady.

      I think Asda’s position is purely political and was orchestrated at the Downing St meeting they attended today.

    63. Tam Jardine says:

      Incredible day – just like when the First Minister stood up to the BBC during the euro election, I felt proud of him today taking the BBC and Westminster on, this time in front of the world’s media.

      I am struggling to believe the claim in the guardian that 97% of the electorate has registered to vote: can that be true? Surely a high turnout is a huge positive for Yes, and for democracy in this country.

    64. call me dave says:

      @bookie from hell

      Debate happened and is all over, now in the hands of the BBC editing department, too many yessers, say the organisers, asking pupils were they a NO or DK as they arrived (reported on a thread further back).

      From the snippet I heard on the BBC radio news it was rowdy, a big cheer drowning out everything when N Sturgeon answered a question. I’m not tuning in because of the Galloway factor.

    65. Andrew Morton says:

      Sonas 6:24 pm

      My son was at Oxford with a guy who, when he graduated with a second class degree in Economics went straight to the Treasury, where he ran a unit of twenty people responsible for monitoring Building Society operations.

      He now appears on screen with the BBC.

    66. Juteman says:

      @James Forrest.
      Wow. That is an essay from the heart. If any Labour voter can read that then vote No, then i give up on politics.

    67. Kenny says:

      I work in poverty reduction, specifically on poverty premiums. This is when poor people get charged more for things than richer people. One of the key things we’ve learned – which will surprise no-one with a brain – is that supermarkets absolutely do not charge the same across the country, nor even the same city. Branches in rural areas, poor areas and areas with minimal competition charge MUCH higher prices than the reverse. Try going shopping in Morrison’s in Stornoway and Morrison’s in Partick to get an understanding.

    68. Dave says:

      Just had a perfect day driving from Inverness to the west coast for some hill walking. YES banners and Saltires all the way across. The best one I saw is just on the north side of the Kessock Bridge – a perfect and very large dayglo orange YES facing all northbound traffic.

      Stopped to check out the UK’s only outdoors anthrax test site at Gruinard. Wonder what was wrong with testing in the Thames estuary?

    69. Suzanne says:

      Asda – and other supermarkets – have categorically said that they will not be raising their prices if there is a yes vote. There was a thread about this elsewhere yesterday and someone had written to all of them for their feedback. None are hiking their prices in response to a possible Yes vote. It’s scaremongering – again.

      Just don’t believe all you read. If we can’t find any information that confirms what has allegedly been said, then we contact them ourselves. Lies cannot succeed in the full glare of daylight.

    70. Suzanne says:

      Just watched the clip. They’re dumping on the journalists … hahahaha .. I guess that’s Nick Robinson, then.

      Apologies – I hadn’t realised that Cameron had invited all the supermarket chiefs round for tea and buns today. You may have to scrap my previous comment, but if Asda wants to raise prices then there are plenty of others options for those who need the lowest prices.

    71. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      In agreement about not watching debate due to galloway factor, same here, hate the cu man.

    72. laukat says:

      I had the pleasure of driving through Alderman Road in Knightswood today for the first time in several weeks and I don’t believe I’ve seen more Yes flags anywhere outside of the Calton Hill march or the BBC anti-bias demo.

      It made my day so well done to those involved!

    73. Ken500 says:

      Tesco’s has declared a profits warning.That’s what it gets when it charges higher prices than others. No customers, no profits. M & S profits ate down. That’s what it gets when it charges more than other. No customers and less profits.

      More for a towel from M & S, John Lewis or Asda, go to the sales.

      In an Independent Scotland get a better health service, education system, no Trident, a tax on ‘loss leading’ alcohol saving £1.5Billion, social care and bus passes for the pensioners. Less depression and loneliness.

      Scotland will be £Billions better off.

    74. Graeme Doig says:

      Yep just checked. My coat still hanging firmly on what Alec said today. (follow up to earlier comment).

    75. tonymac says:

      O/T And Sorry if mentioned
      Yahoo poll
      47 yes to 43 no (still on)

      url below says YES–yahoo-readers-vote-sees–yes–campaign-gain-upper-hand-again-132458508.html#KG8OIQC

      but title says “NO gain upper hand”
      “Scottish Independence poll: Yahoo readers vote sees ‘No’ campaign gain upper hand again”

    76. Ken500 says:

      Asda provides free food for SNP Conferences.

    77. Jim Mitchell says:

      Correct me if I am wrong here but isn’t it the case that even if you break the law by accident, you have still broken the law.

      BTW the timing of all of this is no accident, every time in the past one of the great ones has wondered north and opened their mouth the Yes vote has gone up, this is there way of trying to make sure that it doesn’t happen this time!

    78. YESGUY says:

      James Forrest.

      Thank you for an amazing read. Straight from the heart- both barrels . Outstanding sir.

    79. David S Briggs says:

      Tesco are in enough trouble already without losing more market share in Scotland. Hard to credit they would be stupid enough to say they would raise prices. We would be even more stupid to believe it.

    80. Grouse Beater says:

      I am certain crooked banksters, such as the RBS, are scared a progressive Scottish government will implement severe constraints on bank ethics, procedures, and profits.

      Slinking off to the City of London is where they will feel safe.

    81. tonymac says:

      sorry above should be
      47yes to 53no

    82. Jim Mitchell says:

      Being a mere man I thought I better get my wife’s advice on this,
      she assures me that prices in shops etc have been known to rise even under the union, is she correct?

    83. Les Wilson says:

      We need to just doing what we do, people are rightly getting fed up of Westminster tactics now.
      Funny in Quebec, where they had a lot of the same, it ended up with no one listening anymore. ( they lost by a whisker for entirely different reasons )

      Also think the people of Glasgow will be insulted by that rubbish labour march in Glasgow. They are dead now in Scotland, win or lose. But we are STILL going to win, the more the do, the more people are seeing it.

    84. Story on the BBC now.

      “The think-tank said that, even with the higher oil revenues predicted by the Scottish Government, Scotland would need to borrow more – or tax more – to increase spending on the heath service.”

      So if you want to INCREASE spending you’ll have to INCREASE spending. Presumably if the pope wanted to be more catholic in an iScotland he’d have to be more catholic.

    85. G H Graham says:

      Thanks TD. A few years ago I used to lead a global manufacturing Ops team out of Turkey where we had 4 business units as well as other manufacturing plants all over west & east Europe, N.Africa, Pakistan, Thailand, Ukraine, Mexico & China.

      Before that I ran a billion dollar operations business in Texas, importing raw sugars from W. Africa & S. America & converting them for retail & industrial customers across the lower 48.

      These guys at the BBC & the Tory mouthpieces bragging about how companies will pull out or arbitrarily raise prices if Scotland achieves full independence are talking out their arse.

      Never, have I worked anywhere where WE decided the price because it was ALWAYS the market (i.e. the customers) that decided the price. Sure, one has to make a margin but your competitors usually use the exact same materials & resources. The margin differential is achieved through unique efficiencies rarely by unilateral raising of prices.

      And as for moving HQ to England, this is nothing but a scare story. Might RBS need to have a brass plate on a door somewhere in London? Sure, but the productive work done in Scotland will remain.

      And where will the corporation taxes end up? Well, if the law is applied & followed accordingly, it is paid in the country in which the economic activity that created the profit was conducted in the first place.

      Might some profits still end up in London? Sure, but the Scottish Treasury gets it’s cut first.

    86. Ken500 says:

      The tax evasion in London is caused illegally because firms are declaring commercial activity takes place at their billing address in Dublin not in the UK. They are lying about their commercial activities and getting away with it. HMRC are not enforcing the Law. HMRC will hound individuals and small businesses to death.

      Other tax evasion dodges involves firm have other divisions – which involves classing profits as loans to other divisions/subsidies in other countries, so avoiding tax.

    87. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m wondering. Are the British *ahem* journalists really as thick as they are making themselves appear these days. I mean if David McCann can find this website AND be able to figure out how to use it, no offence intended David, then why can’t they?

      Hell even I managed to use it to confirm what the First Minister said earlier today about Lloyd’s bank head office. It’s head office is also in London, Gresham Street to be precise, exactly where the First Minister said it was. Funny that! 😛

    88. Megalosaurus says:

      Hey, O/T but I just met a friend who works in Edinburgh Uni. People have been telling her all kinds of things like, “Shetland and Orkney are not voting, they are staying in the UK,” or “We’ll be defenceless,” and “The SNP are a racist party.”

      This wonderful woman did not believe it but she needed some reassurance (which, rest assured, I gave her). But it sounds as if Edinburgh Uni is a hotbed of misinformed people (does not say much for the standard of intellectual debate there!). Can I recommend anyone with contacts or friends there to get talking, hand out some wbbs and hopefully we can make some conversions.

    89. David S Briggs says:

      @Jim Mitchell

      I think the phrase is ‘Ignorance of the Law does not excuse’


      “Answer It is easy for anyone to state that they are unaware of a law, and if to say so was to acquit yourself of any crimes then it would be impossible to discern who was lying or not, unless there was specific evidence either way.
      Also, since most laws are common interpretation of general moral or societal values, it is expected that most would understand what is right. Mistaking a law can sometimes excuse, providing you can prove that you were mistaken”

      I think a Treasury Official would be hard put to claim this though.

    90. EphemeralDeception says:


    91. Clootie says:

      This defence

      “Yes, we did break the rules, but it wasn’t our fault because some journalists asked us questions about things we’re not allowed to talk about, so obviously we had to ignore the rules and talk about them.”

      Many,many times I have seen officials of Governments / business, banks,military etc faced with a barrage of questions which are common knowledge via sources such as the internet. The response is always (as it should be) either no comment or a repeat of the approved press release.

      Are Treasury officials stating that any reporter can go on a “fishing trip” with questions and that they have to respond.

      They really do think we are stupid.

    92. YESGUY says:

      Call me Dave.

      The Herald reported he was not on the panel. Have they told anther whopper ?? Read a link n earlier thread that they couldn’t get ANY labour to show. With Baw-Jaws on it’ll end up about Isreal.

      Seems they have. Just checked.

      Trashy rag.

    93. EphemeralDeception says:

      The supermarkets and banks have been bowing to pressure from the UK gov. Asda has stated they would have to setup a distinct Scottish business and depending on a whole host of things, VAT rates, currency etc their operating costs may go up.

      What is disingenuous is that VAT and other costs may also go down. The Scottish government has already stated that they aim to lower corp tax a little.

      The SG have also stated they will setup a fuel regulator so fuel transport costs may go down relative to the current UK wide position.

      There are a whole range of changes that will occur and I am sure some costs will go up and some will go down on relative terms.

      However, what is more important is that I think peoples purchasing power will go up compared to now.

      RULE#1 The UK/No Campaign always focus on costs for Scotland and never benefits and revenue.
      RULE#2 Always remember rule 1 if in doubt.

    94. allan thomson says:

      At least we can now save money on needless Press Watchdogs. All they need do is ask! No need for skuldugerry!

    95. Pin says:

      Peat Worrier was right. The London media bumbling into this debate was always going to end badly. We’ve been practicing this for two years

    96. Wp says:

      How stupid of BP to invest £4.5 billion when the oil ran out last Friday.

    97. Brian Powell says:

      The 16 to 17 year olds will be keen to see how he debate looks on TV, and if they were majority for Yes, they will pretty posed if the BBC try to manipulate how it went.

      On Nick Robinson, the good thing is for once somebody, in the shape of the international press, outside the UK bubble witnessed it.

      Alex Salmond’s speeches in Brussels, Princeton, the North East and Liverpool were excellent but ignore by the press and BBC.

    98. Phil says:

      I hope regardless of the result the First Minister will have a full public inquiry about the the media’s conduct and actions during the whole referendum debate.
      Also my wife works for John Lewis and all the staff are horrified by the comments made by the chairman. Customers have been returning goods all day and many have said they will never shop there again.

    99. A.N.Surgent says:


      What the oil ran out last Friday, we better keep that to ourselves


    100. Gary says:

      Dave’s ‘love-in’ and crocodile tears yesterday and today’s shit storm of lies and threats. So, it’s ‘ I love you, but if you leave me I’ll…’. I don’t think these guys understand ‘love bombing’ this is just ‘bombing’

    101. alistair says:

      Does anyone have young ones who went to the Big,Big Debate ? Would be good to know what happened before I have to sit and watch sleazebag George. I hope he got heckled for wearing that hat in front of the trendy ones. My lot saw his picture and burst out giggling and fits of ridicule !

    102. heedtracker says:

      “We didn’t put this out, it was journalists who asked the questions” must be the most blatant example of their we can say anything and there’s really nothing anyone can do about it, or how the BBC in Scotland operates basically.

    103. Roboscot says:


      I wouldn’t expose my young ones to George Galloway and they’re in their 20s.

    104. Dr Jim says:

      U.S.S.R state media,Remember?
      China state media, Remember?
      Take your pick from half a dozen other countries around the world, and we know who they all are
      British state media, RIGHT NOW!
      What’s next Britain, TANKS in George Square to put down the VIRUS that is ,in Jim Murphy’s words “THE RABBLE THAT IS THE NATIONALISTS”
      When i was young there was no social media, there was only the street, your work, or your mates to help get information
      Thank God for guys like the REV and other sites like this
      You will always be on my list as one of the GOOD GUYS

    105. Nana Smith says:

      Wow the twitter feed from the #bigbigdebate is terrific. Lots of Yessers, Galloway booed

    106. JWil says:

      A caller to a radio programme said about: Miliband “As Useful as Boil on Scrotum”

      The image of him today with mic in hand (and without boil exposed) didn’t inspire.

    107. Cuilean says:

      On 6 o’clock news tonight Nick Robinson (ex Oxford Tory student) is edited asking his question of A salmond but extraordinarily Nick Robinson then lies, ‘AS did not answer’. Extremely shameful editing by the BBC. I really think I will have to stop watching the BBC news between now and next week for my sanity. On happier note Nicola Sturgeon has re-tweeted all the 16 & 17 year olds who have moved to YES after the Big. Big DEbate on tonight! Excellent. When the lies come up against the truth, the fear vanishes. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

    108. Brian Powell says:

      When Galloway compared Yes to Nazis did he not realise that his teenage audience was partly Yes?

      The Noes and Undecides will have had friends sitting beside them who are Yes. I wonder if this will affect them over the next week until the vote.

    109. Albert Herring says:


      You’ll have a hard time shopping in Morrison’s in Stornoway. It hasn’t got one.

    110. alistair says:

      Twee from Nicola
      Just finished recording #BigBigDebate in Hydro. Enjoyed it. Going by fantastic young audience, future of Indy Scotland is in great hands

      Oh well, might watch it. As I thought the young ones wondered who the tube in the hat was.
      See more tweets at

    111. Indy_Scot says:

      If Scotland does vote No, it will not be because the Scottish people did not want Independence, it will have been because they were misled and frightened into voting No by the unionists and media.

      It looks like the BBC, ITV and Sky are going to continue to tell lies and scare stories right up until the vote next week. If their actions prevent Scotland’s children having a better future, they will never be forgiven.

    112. Gordon Adam says:

      @ James Forrest

      Sir, I salute you. A wonderful, powerful, piece of writing.

    113. YESGUY says:

      I think Alex Salmond will have an Ace or two up his sleeve. He’s a wiley campaigner and knows the system inside out.

      He’s played a blinder over the weeks and quite a few mates have openly voiced support for the wee man who never likd him before. I have to say i am impressed by him and the SNP. They’ve done a good job governing Scotland on limited resources and after the reception he got in Dundee, he’s a pretty popular guy alround.

      I hope to hell he pushes the police to investigate the “insider dealing” . The fucking Banks destroyed the country and now BBC and the banks are interfering in democracy AGAIN.

      Where the hell is the Electoral Commission and what are they gonna do about the laws being trampled over. Scotland will not be the only country on Earth to refuse independence.

      Hurry up the 18th.

      NO CU either, let them drown in their debt without our oil propping the £ up.

    114. muttley79 says:

      I hear George Galloway has compared the Yes campaign to Nazis at the debate today. As he is now an official representative of the No campaign, it is over to you Blair MacDougall and Darling…

    115. Ken500 says:

      Firm relocate to where are good education, health care, a good standard of living and trams.

    116. delboy says:

      Just voted yes on that poll and it said “Oops,you have already voted on this Poll” I haven,t. Even stranger!

    117. Luigi says:

      According to the revised figures by respected, independent experts, North Sea oil will now run out on 20th September 2014, mortgages will rise by 1500% and a loaf of bread in an independent Scotland will cost £100. Are you scared yet?

    118. JWil says:

      George Galloway said he would make Bradford an Israel-free zone. In return, I suggest that Scotland should be a George Galloway-free zone.

    119. Ken500 says:

      Has Crombie George recovered from his injuries at his second home in Portugal. Parts of Glasgow have the same poverty as Gaza.

    120. Freedom Lover says:

      BBC Scotland’s “Special” news coverage: The male ‘journalists’ report was staggeringly one sided- the graph terminates at 2013 with “record low revenues”, then no explanation of why- then the reporter turns to a Yes Campaign representative & asks her: “is there anybody in the North Sea Oil Industry voting YES?” Straight up. LIVE on National television! Did I just witness that for real? Can anyone else corroborate this? This has now reached the status of outrageous & disgraceful- I’m defo not watching the news again until the referendum is over, for fear kicking the telly to smithereens!

    121. Croompenstein says:

      Just in, what’s on the box, well fuck me another programme with ‘Britain’ in the title 🙂

    122. Cuilean says:
      11 September, 2014 at 7:34 pm
      On 6 o’clock news tonight Nick Robinson (ex Oxford Tory student) is edited asking his question of A salmond but extraordinarily Nick Robinson then lies, ‘AS did not answer’. Extremely shameful editing by the BBC. I really think I will have to stop watching the BBC news between now and next week for my sanity. On happier note Nicola Sturgeon has re-tweeted all the 16 & 17 year olds who have moved to YES after the Big. Big DEbate on tonight! Excellent. When the lies come up against the truth, the fear vanishes. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.


      Why don’t you stop paying the TV Licence. I have placed a couple of posts on a couple of threads. but here you go as a taster.

    123. JWil says:

      I have just googled Lloyds bank head office. This is what I got (but in large colour format which I can’t replicate here):

      Image result for lloyds bank head office.

      London, England, United Kingdom

      Lloyds Bank, Headquarters

    124. Colin Church says:

      @ Freedom Lover
      Yes it did and the NO person wanted the South North Sea (I take it England geo share of bed) and North North Sea to work together and not put up barriers. WTF.

    125. Wp says:

      Galloway, why has Shettleston got a lower life expectancy than Gazza?

    126. WRH2 says:

      I have phoned John Lewis to complain about their scaremongering nonsense. I told them I take a very dim view of their threat to increase prices should we vote Yes. I told them i will not be bullied by any company into voting against the best interests of Scotland. I also pointed out that they sell nothing that I might want that I can’t buy elsewhere. I think we should all make complaints of withdrawal of custom to these companies who think they are being so smart when jumping onto Westminster’s bandwagon.

    127. Kilty says:

      Very interesting what seems to have popped up on the RBS wikipedia:

      “In September 2014, RBS announced that they would move their headquarters to London in the event of a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum. [14]. Whilst this move wouldn’t affect day to day banking services in Scotland, there would be several major ramifications; the key issue being that the Scottish version of RBS would become a subsidiary to the London based holding company (and therefore, tax would be paid chiefly through the London based company, thus depriving Scotland of significant revenues. This would break a near 300 year period in which the RBS has been headquartered in Edinburgh.”

      Maybe a correction is in order? Can’t say I know a lot about the tax system etc.

    128. A.N.Surgent says:

      The no campaign is a train crash waiting to happen and the train
      will crash on the 18th.

      Well done to the youth, even they can see the truth.

    129. Chic McGregor says:

      Yes I shot him your Honour. But that was only because I happened to point the gun and pull the trigger.

    130. Footsoldier says:

      I enquired of the John Lewis Group about their comments that prices would go up in an independent Scotland. Here is their reply, nothing added, nothing left out.

      “Thank you for contacting us about this issue. We have a thriving and important business in Scotland with over 3,000 Partners, 9 shops and a contact centre. But it’s not our position to tell the people of Scotland how they should vote next week – that’s a decision for them.

      In the course of announcing our financial results, our chairman was asked about the question of Scottish Independence. He replied that the decision was for the Scottish people and that, much longer term, a yes vote may increase costs and possibly prices for all retailers.

      Our Chairman has made two points. The first is that a yes vote would create risks for our business – economic uncertainty and the likelihood that higher costs have to be reflected in higher prices. And secondly, we are one Partnership and that’s served us very well across the UK. We are determined to maintain the unity of the Partnership whatever the practical implications.

      However, we would very much regret an outcome which added complexity to employment practices, pensions, laws and taxes, especially if these diverged over time.”

    131. bookie from hell says:

      # bigbigdebate galloway

      brutal comments


    132. McKiwi says:

      Just a quickie on the subject of corporation tax. In strict terms, both the FM and Phil R are correct. However, it’s DTAs (Double Taxation Agreements) that are the real issue and, until these are tackled on a multinational basis, nothing is going to to change. If an independent Scotland signs up to the same lot as the rUK has at present then Amazon et al will still continue to pay bugger all.

      Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc contribute nothing other than a few very lowly paid jobs. Scotland doesn’t need them so who cares anyway? And, as a retired professor of corporate finance, if anybody wants me to explain the “double dutch irish sandwich” as a means of tax avoidance for multinational companies, I’ll be happy to do so. But not here. (Google it) In any case, RBS pays no tax and won’t do for a long time and it’s not so easy for UK registered trading (rather than finance or “tech”) companies to reduce their UK taxes to the same level as Amazon. They do, however, make use of every avenue they can which is parasitism on companies who do pay what they should. And I’m not going to debate what “should” means. We all know.

      The REAL issue is the lack of will in governments worldwide to get together and tackle these abuses. Since an an independent Scotland will start off with a clean slate on DTAs, perhaps the new government, of whatever shade, might think about this? And don’t listen to the shit that will come from the “financial community” about lack of competitiveness etc.

      Scotland still makes things. Scotland has oil. It’s a bit difficult for a whisky maker to set up a scheme of royalty payments through a company in Luxembourg, although I have no doubt they try, when it’s obvious the bloody stuff is made in Scotland and sales depend on the brand. And I’m not even going to venture into possible systems of taxing oil producers. Ireland pursued the route of 12.5% corporation tax and lax DTAs in an effort to become a financial centre and look where that got them.

      End of rant which turned into more than a quickie..

    133. Lesley-Anne says:

      I wasn’t going to watch the big debate tonight but after reading some tweets and comments on here think I might just do so after all. Please someone tell me that an audience member asked Galloway why he was even on the panel! 😛

    134. David Anderson says:

      Horrible lying bastards are making my blood boil. Though this is crystalizing the arguements in my head. I can and have argued against all naysayers to a point where I have convinced a number of people to vote YES. Channelling the anger into pushing the positive and showing up NO arguements to be what they are as the best way to use it.

    135. macart763m says:


      As I posted on the earlier thread, I’m willing to bet he’s waited years for that opportunity.

      I know we have. 🙂

    136. alistair says:

      Peston writes on the BBC
      For what its worth, some bankers have seen the invisible hand of 10 Downing Street corralling these bankers to make announcements that have been embarrassing for Alex Salmond and those campaigning for independence.
      “There was someone in Number 10 trying to get the banks to co-ordinate on this” a senior banker told me.
      But Downing Street says this isn’t true.
      So I cannot tell you if there is sinister Sassenach conspiracy here

      Angus Robertson tweets
      The #ProjectFear campaign has just hit a large wall after revelations that PM @David_Cameron is personally inciting fear stories #indyref

      This could get interesting. No 10 also had supermarkets round for afternoon tea. Lets see if there are any investigative journalists still out there !!

    137. David Cunningham says:

      A regular reader, but infrequently comment.

      Read the following item that provides a sensible contrast to a lot of the nonsense about banks, etc.
      Martin Gilbert of Aberdeen Asset Management. Also makes interesting comment on currency and BofE assets and liabilities.

    138. alexicon says:

      And these people think that things will be the same after a YES or no vote?

    139. James123 says:

      So what’s going on with the bookies, odds are lengthening again, William Hill currently offering 10/3 for Yes. No doubt a few hefty bets on No from “somewhere” to make it look like they’re gonna win.

    140. Skip_NC says:

      Kilty, whoever edited that Wikipedia entry is talking complete Horlicks. See the discussions earlier in this thread. In any case, Scotland has never enjoyed the tax revenues from RBS, at least not specifically. So I find it hard to see how we could be deprived of them.

    141. Grouse Beater says:

      Been pondering: Would Jesus have voted Yes?

    142. Phil Robertson says:


      “You think Google and others pay no corporation tax in the UK because they declare the profits elsewhere. Is *that* what you are saying?”

      I never said no tax but near enough. Google’s UK operation paid £11.2m in corporation tax in 2012, according to its latest accounts, illustrating the internet search company’s relatively small tax footprint in a country that accounts for $4.9bn of its revenues.

    143. David Cunningham says:

      As for Asda et all, am already a convert to Aldi and Lidl, so they can do what they like IMHO – like others have said, ee have choices.

    144. Lesley-Anne says:

      Like so many others we too are converts to Aldi. We do our BIG shop at Aldi, once a week, and just do any top up shops at Tesco. I’d prefer to do the top up shops at Aldi as well but to hell with doing a 40 mile round trip for a container of milk! 😛

    145. Papadox says:

      The order for mass shit bombing came from #10 this morning when Air commodore Cameron gave the order to attack to all his hench men in the banks, big business, EBC, MSM and Amanda Harding.
      From now on in its round the clock bombing. Your about to find out how much they hate you. Then after a no vote retribution will be visited on us with vigour.


    146. Welsh and envious says:

      In answer to James Forrest re Loch Ness Monster, no it does not get any funnier! Saltire satire in the last couple of weeks has given me more chuckles than I can remember. You guys are too talented to be chained!

    147. aitchbee says:

      Ah , so it’s ‘A big boy made me do it and ran away’ then 😉

    148. Bill says:

      This site will be down by 18th, my own analysis shows some serious attacks. Hope you make it…

    149. Achnababan says:

      This evening I went to my local ASDA in Huntly and took around £250 of goods into my trolley and to the check out.

      When the till had finished ringing the check-out lassie asked me how I wanted to pay.

      I said I only had Scottish notes and could I speak to the manager.

      When he arrived I promptly informed him that I was not going to pay for any of it because his company was trying to subvert democracy in my country.

      Childish gesture? Possibly, but as a result I guess someone paid by ASDA spend over an hour putting the stock back on their shelves and this must damage their ‘bottom line’.

      Why don’t you try – do it with a smile and the only one hurt is ASDA (PS Check out lassie laughed!)

    150. Lesley-Anne says:

      Any one wondering about how things will work out on the *ahem* big night next week then perhaps this might help. 😉

    151. Kev says:


      My gf runs a Yes facebook group and one of her fellow admins said that her nephew and his pal attended the debate and was asked to pose as undecideds as the numbers of Yessers in the crowd outnumbered everyone else.

    152. Jim Kennedy says:

      Voting fraud should be a concern. No have shown they will do and say anything to deny the truth.

    153. Lesley-Anne says:

      What can I say Achnababan. A man with class AND style! 😛

    154. Lesley-Anne says:

      My partner said she had seen something on her Facebook page Kev where they said that some of the 16 and 17 year olds were being asked to be NOES, for exactly the same reason. 😛

    155. A.N.Surgent says:

      Welsh and envious

      Have you seen empire strikes back earlier on, theres a link on previous story

    156. Stevie boy says:

      Jim Kennedy

      I agree. Surely we should be able to get some EU or independent body in to oversee this vote?

      The No side and British government have been proven to have form of cheating here so no-one can trust them to stay out of the ‘democratic’ voting process.

      There must be something that can be done here?!?!

    157. Edmac68 says:

      Even by the warped biased bbc, that clip is unbelievable, I really can’t believe that is the actual excuse they are using!! Ffs

    158. Joe Swan says:

      Young voters debate might be worth a watch tonight.

      Audience member told me it went very well and that Galloway makes a bit of an arse of himself near the end (if it’s not edited out).

    159. A.N.Surgent says:

      Im assuming there will be independent monitors at counting stations or will this be the only referendum ever that does not.

      There was independent monitors at the Crimean one.

    160. Lesley-Anne says:

      A.N.Surgent says:

      Welsh and envious

      Have you seen empire strikes back earlier on, theres a link on previous story

      You mean this awesome piece of media work ANS? 😉

      I don’t know who did this today but I think they should be nominated for an Oscar! 😛

    161. Stevie boy says:

      A.N. Surgent

      Let’s hope so.. think we might need them here!!

    162. A.N.Surgent says:


      Yip thats the one, brilliant 🙂

    163. Indy_Scot says:

      Given the level of interference and co-ordinated staged managed scare stories created by the BBC and the UK government, I cannot imagine any self respecting Scots person condoning their behaviour by voting No.

    164. EphemeralDeception says:

      Does anyone know if the postal votes are counted as part of the 32 district votes or all together? With 800,000 postal votes in the mix that could give significant scope for fraud. However if the postal vote ratio is similar to the normal ballots then it would indicate a fair contest. The thing is will we know the ratios?

    165. A.N.Surgent says:

      Stevie boy

      If there is even a hint of tampering they really will have
      an insurgency on their hands

    166. Lesley-Anne says:

      I can only say ANS that the ‘dopey 100’ did NOT look too happy with their *ahem* welcoming committee. I think they have a lot of cheek actually. The *ahem* committee spent a *cough* lot of time preparing and then escorting them through Glasgow. the least they could have down was show some appreciation! 😛

    167. Lesley-Anne says:

      All the postal votes will be counted as part of each council’s count on the night ED.

    168. Alastair Wright says:

      My daughter just told me exactly the same about the ‘big, big, debate’. One of her friends was asked to be a naw even though she’s an aye, the no train is definitely in slow crash mode now.

    169. BornOptimist says:

      I love reading the comments on this and other Indy web sites but I only hope (as I’m an expat, itching to campaign but too far from home to do much face to face contact) that those who write the comments spend as much time discussing the referendum with don’t knows and wobbly know voters. That’s what’s going to count next Thursday when gut feelings and impulsive decision making cuts in.

      Sorry, for stating the obvious, but I’m getting rather antsy, especially as I’ve got to have another chat with one of my sisters next Monday (a definite No, so she says) but hoping the latest edition of Closer from Bella Caledonia written for and by women will help swing her round.

    170. muttley79 says:

      More opinion polls are going to be released soon, one tonight at 10 pm apparently, and another tomorrow morning for those interested.

    171. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Since the BBC have given up all pretence of being impartial it’s far easier and quicker just to tell the scottish public the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation are a part of the No campaign.

      Funnily enough, almost all of them agree. 🙂

    172. A.N.Surgent says:


      The thing that struck me was there was no polis. Maybe something to do with cuts

    173. Croompenstein says:

      Phil Robertson practising guitar…..

    174. Achnababan says:

      By the way has everyone noticed the number of ‘heavy’ security guards around AS these days?

      I hope they keep him safe – I am worried there might be a clear and present danger to his person. And no I don’t mean being hand-bagged by Nick what’s his name.

    175. turnbul drier says:


      The postal votes are counted along with the regular votes cast in each respective regional count.

      I’m not sure if they will be counted completely separately, but at each count the referendum agents\counting agents for each group WoS being one of them will be able to oversee the process to look for any jiggery-pokery

    176. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      Not sure if this has been posted before but if I has it is worth reposting…

      Just Brilliant – Return of the Jedi.

      I just love Yessers.

    177. scotspine says:

      Just watched George Galloway on the Big Debate, rocking back and forth like an inmate of a secure ward in a mental hospital.

    178. Tamson says:


      I have to wonder whether the panic at the start of the week was caused by private “exit polling” of the postal vote.

      Postal votes might be assumed to lean towards No pretty heavily, simply because of the demographic most likely to use them: very elderly in care homes, and well-off people with no time to vote.

      If any private surveys of postal voters were showing Yes even within a few points of No, they would panic.

    179. Kev says:

      Oh dear, Galloway’s got his hat on, that’s worth a heckle or two on its own surely, what a tit.

    180. Lesley-Anne says:

      Maybe they were just practicing for the incoming cuts if there is a NO vote ANS. 😛

    181. John D aka Nkosi says:

      Rev you need to get vote for icons and clicks for the posts. Some are just pure dead brilliant.

    182. Stevew says:

      Just cancelled my TV licence.
      Can’t stand to think I am contibuting to these state propagandists.

    183. pro-loco says:

      I would imagine that the police would only be interested if it could be shown that someone has made a profit out of the rules being broken and that there was sufficient evidence of that. The record of the serious crime department has not been good in this regard.

      However I would also point out that RBS has made huge trading losses over the last 4 years and therefore has made no profit on which corporation tax could be calculated or paid. Over and above that, corporation tax rules allow unused trading losses to be carried over to future years so that it is unlikely that RBS will be paying corporation tax for several years into the future.

    184. Lesley-Anne says:

      Watching the BIG debate and it’s only 10 minutes in and Galloway is getting a kicking! 😛

    185. Kev says:

      Galloway: “You don’t have money”, is he still suffering from concussion?

    186. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      The twat in the hat isn’t going down well with the scottish youth, is he? 😀

      Hard to believe the scottish electorate told him to fuck off. No, wait, it isn’t!

    187. Lesley-Anne says:


      Even Patrick Harvie is getting stuck in to Galloway! 😛

    188. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Oh shiiiiit! 😀

      Patrick Harvie smacks down the hatman, HARD!
      Poor old twat in a hat (who once thought he was a cat) is losing it completely now.

    189. Graeme Doig says:

      Oh no, don,t want to get involved in running commentary but have to say GG is a complete erse. What a disgrace of a man.
      Patrick harvey what an uppercut that was 🙂

    190. gerry parker says:

      @EphemeralDeception and Lesley Anne.

      The figure will not be available separately for postal votes though. They will be mixed in the ratio of approximately 2 postal vote boxes to one ordinary box before the count starts. So although we will know the total amount of postal votes, we will not know the actual Yes /No split on them.

    191. Thepnr says:

      George Galloway, the teetotaler is pished! Simple as that.

    192. heedtracker says:

      Will George Galloway fake a heart attack just to get out of there?

    193. Kev says:

      So now you need oil to have a currency? Away n have a sip of milk George n calm yersel down.

    194. heedtracker says:

      Forgot there was no Labour in the teenage debate tonight. Madness.

    195. heedtracker says:

      Go get em Nicola!

    196. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      Why is there no labour politician at tonight’s debate?

      A very bad mistake for No to be represented by a Tory and a complete nutter.
      Mind you do they have anyone any better?

    197. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye but he is no ordinary nutter Doc. He is our very own Bradford nutter! 😉

      Oh wait a minute where exactly is Bradford again, I don’t remember seeing the road signs to Bradford anywhere in Scotland! 😛

    198. Grouse Beater says:

      ‘Why is there no Labour politician in the debate?’

      I believe they ‘declined’ to take part. Then again, Labour has taken the decision to refuse all open debate, and only preach to the converted organised in their own terms.

    199. heedtracker says:

      Ruth is mental. If Scotland believes their oil is a burden con, Scotland is mental.

    200. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T but here are the links to last night’s Tommy Sherridan “Hope over Fear” tour meeting in Annan last night.

    201. David Brown says:

      James Forrest, one of the best pieces wrote in the independence debate!

    202. A.N.Surgent says:

      They are fast running out of front men/women even though credibility is not a criteria.

    203. Grouse Beater says:

      Galloway retaining his hat has the unfortunate result of him looking like a barfly.

    204. Thepnr says:

      How embarrassing is George? In front of the bairns as well. Tube.

    205. heedtracker says:

      Why is it no surprise to hear Galloway’s had more than one messy divorce. Only a boozy old Westminster egomaniac rants at teens about his own private tragedy. Get the issues going again, perlease!

    206. Colin says:

      I hate Galloway, he is an absolute nutter. The no campaign is doing themselves no favours letting him be there.

    207. Lesley-Anne says:

      This may be wishful thinking on my part, but listening to wee Ruthie and the cat man, I’m thinking that more than a few of the undecideds there tonight will have moved to YES thanks to the pair of them. 😛

    208. call me dave says:


      Thanks I’ll catch it tomorrow saving some of the good stuff till then. 🙂

      What a day for YES. I’m mildly euphoric!
      Humming that tune from the empire strikes back.

    209. Grouse Beater says:

      Galloway screaming Labour invented the NHS but forgetting to add they are helping to dismantle it now.

    210. call me dave says:

      Man in a tricycle good for YES.
      Man in a hat bad for the NO
      (official) labour spokesperson I heard?

    211. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye it has been a rather brilliant day hasn’t it CMD? 😀

      As far as the Empire Strikes Back guy, I’ll never be able to watch that movie again without “seeing” that wee 10 minute episode. 😛

      I see good old George the cat man has ditched his Respect party and moved back to the Labour party. I wonder if the Respect party know about his desertion of them and do the Labour party know that he has joined them? 😀

    212. Thepnr says:

      I’ll tell you what, cometh the hour cometh the man and woman.

      Salmond and Sturgeon are now up for the fight and doing well.

    213. heedtracker says:

      Galloway’s history class is crap too. UK stood alone against Hitler? What about Russia George.

    214. Joe says:

      liked when George was linked to the tories as their partner on the panel and no denial from him at all , puts into perspective his attitude.

    215. Derek M says:

      just been hearing this so called big debate has been edited something terrible so i see the BBC are up to their old tricks again ,as for Galloway when did he become a labour party member again ,he keeps saying he stands for labour ,maybe getting a kicking down south has affected his memory or maybe he is just a lying self serving piece of trash who will say and do anything to promote his pathetic political career.
      Oh and i see the chair keeps interrupting Nicola but seems to let Davidson talk garbage without any interruptions, disgraceful.

    216. Kev says:

      Oh dear George, you were like an old fart in a pub hijacking a group of young, hip folk and boring them with stories of the past, any respect anyone has ever had for you has vanished, you’re finished.

    217. heedtracker says:

      Why on earth did Labour in Scotland not show up tonight for teenage Scotland? 100 MP’s came up to Scotland today and met twa cheeky bastards on Sauchiehall street with a ghetto blaster and who will go down in history as the greatest demo since Ian Grey ran from one voter all those years ago.

      This is the end for Labour no matter how hard BBC propaganda hits us all.

    218. heedtracker says:

      Can someone somewhere tell the world when Lloyds and TSB became Scottish banks. Fuck off BBC Fuck off

    219. heedtracker says:

      Super market prices are completely different across Scotland Bob Peston. Aberdeen food buys cost a lot more than Glasgow but why let facts get in the way of BBC propaganda now.

    220. tartanarse says:

      News on at the mo. Nick 2 arses states that Alex “waved around the EBC story”.

      Well he wasn’t going to tell the truth now was he?

      Message to Asda. Have you heard of Lidl and Aldi?

      John Lewis. If you live in Scotland and can afford to shop in John Lewis, you can afford to shop in John Lewis. Lets face it most of the folks who would vote NO shop in John Lewis.

      And sunlight is running out.

    221. Bob W says:

      I’m puzzled, surely if the banks want to operate in Scotland, even if their headquarters are down south, they will still have to be registered here as well.

    222. Lesley-Anne says:


      Just heard smackdown Nicky claim that the Treasury said what they did about the RBS in order to maintain stability. STABILITY! What an utter bunch of LYING so and so’s!

    223. Capella says:

      @ tonymac 7.02pm
      Re yahoo poll. I followed your link and voted yes to be greeted by the message:
      “Oops you have already voted on the poll”
      But I haven’t so that is probably how they are getting more NO votes. They have set the code to discount a random number of YES returns. Simple technique!

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is this a genetic thing? Was Thatcher not a grocers daughter?

    225. heedtracker says:

      Appalling blanket UKOK propaganda, Lloyds Headquarters 25 Gresham Street
      London EC2V 7HN, United Kingdom

    226. ronnie anderson says:

      Michelle Mone leaving Scotland again & again & again, whens she actualy going.

    227. Derek M says:

      yea heedtracker i was just watching that drivel being spouted off on the news along with all the supermarkets will be raising their prices if we vote yes ,what a load of crap stinks of westminster propaganda ,but at least we now know what their final plan is ,one big last scare ,so dont listen to them Scotland it is all lies constructed by a desperate bunch who only want Scotland to save their own pathetic skins.
      We are so much better than this vote yes to get rid of these lying thieves.

    228. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Yeah Nick forgets that they pulled the story editorially and then carried on with the treasury say they did nothing wrong in a memo tonight. About the thing they haven’t reported as apparantly AS didn’t say anything. Confused? His reference to the supermarkets being at Number 10 has disappeared by the ten o clock news, they are editing their own footage so they can’t quite remember what they kept in. That’s the trouble with lies.

    229. ronnie anderson says:

      Party political programme broadcast by Michelle Mone,curtesy of the Licence fee payers

    230. heedtracker says:

      Derek M. RBS was bailed out by the Federal Bank of the USA,look at the reality behind a monstrous liar like Darling and Brown

      The UK Government bail out of RBS and HBOS amounted to £65bn. That’s a lot of money, but the US Federal Reserve made emergency loans available to RBS of £285bn and to HBOS of £115bn.

    231. tartanarse says:

      Did I really just hear Toodloothenoo say that JLo was “going to a supermarket tomorrow” to spread the NO word?


      It’s all so pathetic.

      Brian was being interviewed by a grown up from London. I don’t know if he sees that as ironic or if he simply accepts that it is the union way to know your place.

    232. Lesley-Anne says:

      Dear Michelle Mone,

      I am disabled and not really capable of doing much. However, as you have been so desperate to leave Scotland since 2007, and have not yet managed to do so, I am more than willing to come up to your house and help you pack. I will also be more than willing to help transport as much stuff as possible of yours down South to the border so that you never, ever have to set foot back on Scottish soil!

      Yours in everlasting friendship


    233. Macsenex says:

      Whatever happened to competition in the retail market?

    234. schrodingers cat says:

      James Forrest
      great stuff sir

      i met my first winger tonight

      YES is bringing people together from across scotland

      a random man(i’ll let him identify himself) for work reasons is staying in a hotel in darkest fife, he thinks it is quite natural to volunteer to a local yes organiser to go canvassing with us. so we stood on doorsteps tonight and together argued for yes. the cameraderie of this movement is amazing, it crosses party politics and all places in society. much of our information comes from stu, but much of it comes from the people who post here. thanks guys. he will gone tomorrow, but i gave him a wee tartan yes badge in thanks for his help. haste ye back mon ami,
      btw, we gave out a few wbb’s tonight to some genuine undecideds and told them to come here and ask any questions they liked and as long as they were polite, people here would answer any question asked. bear in mind folks that some of the people commenting here for the first time may be people pointed here by me and the wbb. they might not be trolls, take a breath before calling people trolls. they may just genuinely be undecideds, please bear this in mind

    235. Croompenstein says:

      @Lesley-Anne – Don’t let that woman put one foot in the battle bus she doesn’t deserve to be seen in it. 😀

    236. Tackety Beets says:

      Sorry bit O/T and been distracted domestically tonight .Apologies not read the postings above yet . The power of the People on the ground . I’m thinking, and I appreciate its not their fault , avoid ehm boycot ASDA , John Lewis , NEXT etc . If their tills take a hit they will soon scream . ah yes , and I’m off to RBS in the morning to collect my £290K savings ,anyone want t ride shotgun before we hit the YES Pubs. Hopefully I will be consulted by RBS …. ” The BBC told me ………. I can say anything that comes into my head . RBS will not be able to challenge what I say cause the BBC have spewed so much crap lately . I now furious ! its worse than gettin’ beat by Rangers at Pittodrie on a sunny day ! What dya think Rev , ok av lost the plot ! Sweet Dreams …. Normal Service will resume soon Hopefully .

    237. Sinclair Macleod says:

      Ms Mone, I’ll pack your bag and drive yout to the border if you’ll end your inane prattling.

    238. Forbes says:

      Why don’t Scots refuse to renew their BBC License fees?
      They money is supposed to go to an organisation who should be giving a fair and comprehensive overview of matters affecting the general public.

      We have no obligation to fund a haven for sexual deviants who
      break laws and prevent fair representation in every news bulletin.

    239. A.N.Surgent says:

      If you are phoning Pravda to cancel tv licensce and you get put
      through to the automated pish, for any question, put on your broadest scots accent and say NAW you will be put straight through
      to a human.

    240. Lesley-Anne says:

      Croompenstein says:

      @Lesley-Anne – Don’t let that woman put one foot in the battle bus she doesn’t deserve to be seen in it. 😀

      Oh don’t worry Croomp I would NEVER endanger the interior of the battle truck with her presence. I’ll just about let her put some of her cases/ boxes etc in the truck but NOT her. SHE travels on the ROOF! 😛

    241. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm, I’m interested to see all you guys phoning the BBC and informing them that you are cancelling their TV tax. We just stopped the D.D., couldn’t be earsed talking to BBC. Phone would probably have gone for its first flying lesson! 😛

    242. A.N.Surgent says:


      Bank told me to phone them in case they got up to any shennanigans
      and you get the enjoyment of telling them why.

    243. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks for that ANS. We’ve had nothing like that, just a wee letter saying “you appear not to have paid last month’s tax.” our response … No Shite Sherlock! 😛

    244. A.N.Surgent says:


      Got 2 yesses today using the Scots Bible(WBB) It sure is a vote

    245. manandboy says:

      The Labour movement in Scotland is at a cliff edge.

      I hope that many of it’s members and supporters
      will heed the voices of Scotland’s young people
      and step back from oblivion
      to vote Yes
      and discover a new proud future
      as the Labour Party
      in an Independent socially responsible Scotland.

    246. JulesR says:

      Confirmed that George Galloway did indeed call Yes campaign “SNP Nazis” in the big debate tonight, mysteriously edited out by BBC as of course they remain “neutral in the referendum debate”

    247. JWil says:

      * Michelle Mone! Pathetic. Scotland won’t miss her. She loves Scotland so much that she has threatened to leave if it’s independent. She is a publicity seeker, now on a quiz programme on TV. Well named.

      * Henry Kissinger was interviewed on Newsnight, mainly about events in the middle East, but he was asked about Scottish independence. He did not think it would make much difference in the great scheme of things or to rUK’s status on the world stage. He said it depended on how England handled it, but thought the world wouldn’t notice. Another George Robertson-ism debunked.

      * Kirsty Wark trying to make big issues of recent events with Brian Souter. He handled it calmly and effectively.

      * Daily Mail (English version) front page is all about Westminster MPs getting their snouts back in the trough again with expenses, whereas the Scottish front page has a referendum article. Surely the YES campaign could make something out of this.

      * on The Papers on BBC the presenter said that the new poll showed that the YES vote was on the slide, but the Guardian journalist (a Scot) more or less said that she was talking nonsense (which she was)

    248. dadsarmy says:

      @Phil Robertson

      “`A company resides, for the purposes of Income Tax, where its real business is carried on … I regard that as the true rule; and the real business is carried on where the central management and control actually abides.”

      It’s not quite as simple as that of course, but that’s the case law in general terms.

      Real business may or may not be carried out at the registered address. When I had mine registered at my then accountant’s adddress he complained if ever a letter was sent there by mistake.

    249. dadsarmy says:

      Oh aye, forgot to say. Salmond is right. But there are all sorts of things for instance if the parent company makes decision and subsidiaries rubber-stamp them rather than using their own control, HMRC can deem real busines to take place at the parent company, rather than the subisdiary that actually does the work. I guess it might depende whether the chief executive wants to live in London or Edinburgh, as I daresay both have boardroms.

    250. dadsarmy says:

      Just another point before I bore myself to sleep, anyone who’s walked around fashionable business streets in Edinburgh or London or Glasgow will have seen doors with about 100 registered office brass plates on them (some cheapskates use steel). You don’t have to have any ownership on a place to actually use it as a registered office, as long as official bodies can write to it, like companies house.

    251. Fiona says:

      It seems to me that those companies who claim that prices will go up in an independent Scotland are smuggling in two premises which are both false.

      The first is the notion that competition works in the retail sector in this country and, as I have shown before, that is not true. I see that many of the posters above accept it: but is perfectly clear that the big supermarkets have acted as a cartel for decades. The experience of true competition from Aldi and Lidl and its effect on their customer base and profits recently shows that to be true. So let us not be fooled by the faith based narrative of the neoliberals wrt to what actually happens, please

      The second premise is that if we get a yes vote the economies of rUK and of Scotland will diverge in the future: which is true, probably. But they found on the presumption that Scotland will be the weaker of the two, and there is no reason to believe that, that I can see.

    252. Kevin evans says:

      Spoke to a no voter tonight – his response total sums up what the nos are all about.

      I ask him “don’t ya think the hornets nest we’ve stirred up is going to have Westminster come down on us like a ton of bricks if we say no”.

      He replied “well if it gets that bad ill cash in my shares from bp and move abroad”‘.

      There ya go – the no voters – me me me me me me.

    253. Anne says:

      Thanks Stu for the news clip. Nick Robinson, a snide little individual, on BBC News at 10, said he had spoken to the Treasury about Alex Salmond’s accusation that the Treasury had breached the rules. Treasury’s response was that they hadn’t. Well that’s OK then. Nick then went onto to say, “Well Salmond has spent his whole life moving towards Independence….” In other words patronising, making Salmond out to look desperate. Mulling this over I had to find out the truth. Surely Salmond hadn’t done something daft hence why I am so glad to have seen the above clip. What really worries me is that a lot of the soft Yes voters will not look further than the BBC News. I am losing count of the number of times I have had to put people right about the nonsense peddled by our “impartial” broadcaster. As for ASDA, they have just lost a customer.

    254. Dubai_Scot says:

      @Phil Robinson

      just went on Wikipedia and looked up corporation Tax, sorry Phil, your interpretation is wrong. AS got it right. 🙂

    255. Dubai_Scot says:

      Oops, Phil Robertson, not Robinson….

    256. Muscleguy says:

      On the doorsteps last night we met a really switched on lass who was studying politics. I mentioned that she now knew what a state broadcaster in full propaganda mode looked like and she agreed. The young people who get it, really get it. No half measures. You open people’s eyes and they do not go back to sleep again.

      I hope Alex knows what he has awoken. Governing Scotland after this referendum is not going to be easy. I think Alex, Nicola or John have what it takes. They know they have to be pretty straight with people. The rest? it will take some time I’m afraid.

    257. tonymac says:

      delboy says:
      11 September, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      Just voted yes on that poll and it said “Oops,you have already voted on this Poll” I haven,t. Even stranger!
      Capella says:
      11 September, 2014 at 10:17 pm

      @ tonymac 7.02pm
      Re yahoo poll. I followed your link and voted yes to be greeted by the message:
      “Oops you have already voted on the poll”
      But I haven’t so that is probably how they are getting more NO votes. They have set the code to discount a random number of YES returns. Simple technique!
      jumbled source code so they could later claim browser compatibility/server load(too many voting same time}
      but your probably right about random (youve voted)messages/blocks/jigery pokery

    258. Jamscot says:

      Anyone who has any doubts that Yes will win, and more importantly, WHY Yes will win, should read this.

    259. Martin Wood says:

      If YES is successful, any staff transferring over from BBC to SBS should either be prosecuted or publicly made to justify the acts taken during the referrendum

    260. Phil Robertson says:


      Reading further in your link HMRC seems to go with the second half of this – “under current UK case law such a company is regarded as resident for tax purposes where central management and control is to be found.”

      Its guidance also states “If your company or organisation is based in the UK, you’ll have to pay Corporation Tax on all your taxable profits – wherever in the world those profits come from” which implies that the tax is payable somewhere other than where the “economic activity” took place.

      Wikipedia entry on Corporation Tax begins with “Corporation tax is a corporate tax levied in the United Kingdom on the profits made by companies” which is exactly what I said.

    261. Tom Foyle says:

      @Phil Roebertson:

      But in the event of an independent Scotland, I think you’ll find that, if RBS moves its Scottish trading HQ to England, (even though it’s already there!) they’ll then have to pay tax twice. Because there’s no way they’ll get to do business – economic activity – in Scotland WITHOUT paying tax there. Of that you can be sure. And then, you’re saying they’ll be taxed again on the SAME activity in England?

    262. Tom Foyle says:

      Sorry. Robertson.

    263. Phil Robertson says:

      @Tom Foyle

      It’s not the banks that are the issue – it will be years before RBS is paying tax.

      It’s the oil companies. Two-thirds of oil revenue, about £4bn, comes in as corporation tax. If, for whatever reason, they choose to pay it in London rather then Edinburgh, then it’s a real problem for Scottish revenues.

    264. Black Douglas says:

      @Phil the 👿 Robertson

      No they won’t and can’t.

      A specific Link to prove that is the case, thank you. 😀

    265. elizabeth says:

      if that was the case phil robertson then why aren’t we currently (cuurentlt uk)fighting off lots of foreign co’s pirating oil in scottish water as according to your argument as long as your paying your tax somewhere in the world its allowed? i think not

    266. Scotty Land says:

      Strange I had to register my name again as it usually pops up straight away. Hope the spooks have not infiltrated W o S. Anyway I am a volunteer driver for mark Thomas who set this up to get the bankers to the airport when they threatened to leave Britain if they didn’t get their bonuses. I will of course expand my offer to: ASDA execs, RBOS, Michelle Mone and any others such like. Just let me know what area in the border you would prefer, say this side of Berwick or Carlisle I am not fussed East or West side, no problem. You can contact me through here just say the word. I await your call. Friday morning would be good for me:)

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