What’s left out
As alert readers will know, one of the primary purposes of this website isn’t just to tell people when the Scottish and UK media is lying to them, but to teach readers how to spot that for themselves. And one of the keys to learning that is to ask yourself what a story in the press is leaving out as well as what it’s telling you.
So last week, when several newspapers went on an orgy of shock-horror reporting about SNP MPs’ expenses – focusing mostly on aeroplane flights and only quoting figures for a small handful of MPs who’d allegedly been claiming far more taxpayers’ money than their Unionist predecessors – alarm bells started ringing everywhere.
And just as we’ve taught them to, Wings readers leapt into action to do the hard work that Scotland’s professional journalists don’t want to do, in order to provide Scots with the facts that the media doesn’t want them to know.
On this occasion our intrepid researcher was alert Edinburgh University student Marky Booth, who dived fearlessly into the guts of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) website and produced a comprehensive spreadsheet of all the figures for the past three years for every Scottish MP.
By the time he was finished, of course, Unionist social media, press and politicians had already spent 48 hours indignantly and stridently punting the “greedy Nats” line:
But there was only one small problem with the narrative.
TOTAL PARLIAMENTARY EXPENSES 2014-2016
SCOTTISH MPs 2013/14 (53 Unionist MPs): £10,654,235
SCOTTISH MPs 2014/15 (53 Unionist MPs): £10,738,609
SCOTTISH MPs 2015/16 (56 SNP/Ind MPs): £9,162,821
It was completely untrue.
The total expenses claimed by Scottish MPs in the last Parliamentary year was in fact more than £1.5m LOWER than the previous year, when most Scottish MPs had been Labour. The reduction was almost 15%, an incredible feat over just 12 months.
(Nor was it attributable to the three remaining Unionist MPs. The total bill for Alistair Carmichael, David Mundell and Ian Murray was £17,258 HIGHER than in 2014/15.)
But there’s more. Because not only had the SNP’s MPs been charging the taxpayer less, they’d been delivering more in exchange for their money. The spreadsheet also counted how many times each MP had turned up to vote (“VR” in the table above) or spoken in a Parliamentary debate (“Cont”), and thereby calculated an Average Cost Of Contribution (“ACOC”) for each member and the full groups.
TOTAL NUMBER OF PARLIAMENTARY ACTIONS PER YEAR
SCOTTISH MPs 2013/14 (53 Unionist MPs): 2,166
SCOTTISH MPs 2014/15 (53 Unionist MPs): 1,751
SCOTTISH MPs 2015/16 (56 SNP/Ind MPs): 3,428
The SNP-dominated 2015/16 cohort voted and spoke in the Commons almost TWICE as many times as the Labour-dominated group of the year before, and over 50% more than the year before that.
AVERAGE COST PER CONTRIBUTION PER MP
SCOTTISH MPs 2013/14 (53 Unionist MPs): £4,919
SCOTTISH MPs 2014/15 (53 Unionist MPs): £6,133
SCOTTISH MPs 2015/16 (56 SNP/Ind MPs): £2,673
And so the year after the SNP won 56 seats saw taxpayers being charged less than half as much money per Parliamentary contribution as they had been the previous year, when the Unionist parties provided 53 of Scotland’s 59 MPs.
Members do more than just vote and speak in the chamber, of course. But in every possible comparable term of measurement, the hard facts are that SNP MPs do much more and cost much less than their Unionist predecessors. The coverage in the media is the diametric opposite of the reality.
(We normally point out that newspapers carefully use weasel words, semantic spin and subtle massaging of the figures to create a totally misleading impression without telling any actual technical lies, but the reporting of the expenses story is very close indeed to absolute categorical falsehood.)
We just thought you’d like to know.
I’ve been putting Marky Booth’s conclusion and link to his information in reply to tweets from Unionists pedalling the lie.
This is a very handy version with context.
Yeah, it’s a phenomenal piece of work but perhaps not easy to grasp instantly with such big tables. Hopefully this is a clear and concise summary.
This is a really valuable piece of research. What a pity no papers or broadcasters will pick up on it. Long live Neues Deutschland!
Next problem, how to help spread the ‘unpalatable’ truth. I’ll do my best.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Next SNP Bad story please!
Why do the SNP allow themselves to be Knocked about by this mob of liars?
Great bit of work there by Marky Booth and your good self.
Posting link elsewhere as we speak. 🙂
Fantastic work on the spreadsheet and great editing to boil it down to bite-size pieces thanks to Stu and Marky Booth. Now we need someone to do the hard graft on how much of what is exported from Scotland to England is then exported on to Europe and the rest of the world.
Congratulations to Marky Booth for producing that table. It was no mean feat and obviously took a lot of time and effort.
I wonder … perhaps this is why BBC/SKY/MSM never tell the TRUTH About the SNP/Ind M.P.’s and their expenses … because of the time and effort they would need to contribute to finding the information and producing something like this spreadsheet. What a bunch of lazy good for nothings the unionist journalists really are.
Fantastic work by Marky Booth. The question is why did no journalist or broadcaster check out the facts?
BBC quick to lodge FOI requests thus costing taxpayers money but too lazy, or short staffed, to do any proper research into Unionist claims.
And that, Neil MacKay, is why sales of newspapers are plummeting, so don’t go lecturing us – on social media – about falsehoods and inaccuracies of social media when we have a daily onslaught of lies and utter bile to deal with from your press pals.
Give any liar enough rope and they will, eventually, hang themselves. The trouble is, the lies are out. The gullable are influenced, and affected.
Apart from the vallient work of the likes of Wings and a few other Social media colleagues.We cannot compete with the volume that the liars enjoy.
Sterling piece of work from Marky. I poured over it last night, thanks for the more easily digestible breakdown.
Well done, young man and the Rev. for giving it publicity.
I’d like to think our excuse for an MSM had red faces now, but a forlorn hope I fear.
Excellent work.
My pal has a theory that Scottish mps of yesteryear were paid simply to sit meekly and not create waves while Westminster robbed Scotland blind.
@Norman Stewart
I believe some of our mps are working on Scottish import/export figures.
Hey, Scottish ‘journalists’, this kind of blatant anti SNP lying by you lot, is why your sales are falling like a stone in Scotland.
Here’s a tip, ‘journalists’ (and I use the term loosely) why not get off your fat lardy arses and do what you are getting paid to do, instead of just writing unadulterated anti SNP/independence sh*te.
Norman Stewart at 1007 am,
I could not agree more. We really need the hard data on exports to England for sale, compared to how much is actually going VIA England to EU/rest of world. A matter of some considerable priority.
All we have at present are made up figures provided by our ever so trustworthy chums in Westminster.
With every piece of solid reporting like this by Markie and Stu the links between the MSM and Labour becomes ever clearer. Lazy and unthinking journalists for too long have taken the swill offered to them by a Labour Party, main and Scottish branch, without bothering to do even the slightest fact search. Thankfully the tide is turning and as more of us are able to harness the real stories through sites like this so we can counter the arguments of those who still think an independent Scotland can’t survive.
The figures above should also be seen in context of the number of House of Commons sittings in any one year.
In 2013/14 Commons sat on 158 days
In 2014/15 Commons sat on 133 days
In 2015/16 Commons sat on 162 days
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04653#fullreport
Yet Yoon MPs claimed a much higher figure for less days in 2014 /15 which was no doubt spent on their general election campaign.
Just checked the Scotland in Union website. Last week the SNP MPs expenses ‘scandal’ was quite prominent. Today I can’t seem to find it.
Well done. Fabulous piece of research by Marky, and presented beautifully by yourself.
How on earth could we ever trust anything again which is written in these papers ?
They have destroyed an important link in the community possibly for all time. I have not ,nor will I buy another paper until Scotland is free. Apart from the National they are a destructive vehicle with only one purpose. To destroy Scottish independence
Journalism has become a profession for liars and self interest with a few exceptions.
Many times I have read articles which I may have had issues with,but which I knew ultimately were the product of a need for serious discussion.
Today’s papers look and sound as if they were written in the school playground by a petulant bullying child who prefers name calling and hurt to make a point. My way or no way.
Wings, you are simply wonderful and a breath of fresh air.
Journalists – not worthy of the name – and they wonder why circulation is falling eg the scotsman – you can’t give it away even with loads of free gifts and the Daily Record only records snp bad- why let the truth influence a good story. We don’t need to wonder why we don’t trust msm and bbc it is because of lies like this and lazy lazy journos. Honesty, fairness, justice three words the have been dropped it seems from the dictionary and we are left with post-truth – in other words pure lies.
What’s left out? Nothing. A brilliantly researched investigation by a student, which will be completely buried by UKOK hackdom, shock.
Meanwhile, another day of UKOK attack propaganda farts along. This one’s the terrible terrible of not Scots oil and gas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-38048562
Lang Banks, director of environmental group WWF Scotland, backed the union’s report.
He said: “The GMB are absolutely right to highlight the massive liability facing UK taxpayers in order to clean up the mess left behind by North Sea oil and gas industry.
Thanks to Markie, and his pimp. 🙂
Let’s hope that the SNP has the gumption & guile to use this valuable piece of work, to GIRUP the yoons and their media whores.
He’s only just turned 18! From Aberdeen though, where we’ve endured likes of socialist worker Wullie Young, millionaire private landlord, SLabour yoonster owned city council boss, that’s refused any and all social housing being built in his Aberdeen for over 4 decades. Its for our own good you see.
I think we have to bear in mind that for the Yoons the cost per contribution will be read inversely. To be consistent with SNPbaaaaad, every contribution the SNP make will be by definition bad and therefore the fact the SNP members make more contributions per £ spent means that things are even worserer than they thought.
🙂
Billboard material ?
BBC explains how hard core conservative attack propaganda works in the USA, because BBC is so liberal, unbiased, honest n shit, especially in their Scotland region.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-38005983
Breitbart: The web that connects Trump and Farage
By Mike Wendling
BBC News, Washington
20 November 2016
A once-fringe online news site has deep connections with Donald Trump and the UK Independence Party. So what’s the story behind Breitbart?
Fantastic work by Marky Booth. The question is why did no journalist or broadcaster check out the facts?
Most newspapers are working to an agenda so they are not interested in facts. They look to actively distort information, providing as little actual background data as possible. The BBC etc., are pruned to the bone and no longer appear to employ researchers and their “journalists” just recycle the partisan nonsense dribbling from the pens of Siobhan and friends.
Classic case of Pop eating itself.
The sound of the medias lack of balanced response to this information is deafening.
It makes them look even more politically corrupt when they are presented with the facts, and all they do is hide in the corner.
It is one thing to be a champion for the union, it is quite something else to be a spineless servant of the Empire.
Independence cannot come soon enough, Scotland deserves better than this.
That spreadsheet is a winner and this article is the icing on the cake. Thank you,it helped me to destroy this lie on a social media site.
The yoonie colonial media tell porkies?
My gast is well and truly flabbered.
One of the most striking things about this is how Ruth Davidson was so quick to take everything at face value. It is surely yet another an indication of how superficial her grasp is on ‘facts’. You only have to listen to the utter garbage she comes out with at FMqs. Her depth of understanding is so poor it is astonishing she has made it to the position she has.
Of course she has a compliant and fawning media to cheer on her every utterance however inaccurate or disingenuous. The journalists who bleat about fake news and falling sales need a kick up the arse and a lesson in how to get back to basics to salvage their dying reputations.
I am so proud to see my MP really doing his job, over 70% VR record and 52 questions asked.
My MP shows videos of himself at work and speaking to select committees showing us exactly what he is doing and asking the government challenging questions.
Thank you to the student that did this spreadsheet, it’s shocking that the media couldn’t be arsed to really discover the truth.
We are now living under the thumb of a Brit Establishment Which genuinely believes that it can print any lies they like without censure.
The broadcasters, and the hacks on the Dead Tree Scrolls are bought and paid for propagandists, liars, anti Scottish Fifth Columnists.
I doubt that any of them would even deny this now. Their weekly pay cheque demands that they do their masters’ bidding, and nothing else.
So what if Hammond is about to announce ‘JAMS Tomorrow’ in his autumn statement?
‘JAMS’ is the acronym derived from May’s speech, when she cooed about supporting the families (the 6 million households with incomes between £12000 and £34000 a year)who were ‘just about managing’.
It is forecast that Hammond’s Autumn Statement will continue with the Red Blue and Yellow Tories’ Austerity Cuts/Tax breaks to the better off agenda, which will see the JAMS £2,500 worse off by 2020.
And the liars on the Daily Record and the Scotsman lead with this MPs’ expenses tossery.Who cares of millions suffer, do without, and many thousands die because of Far Right Political Ideology. As long as Ruth Chubby Cheeks get on to Strictly, and some woman flashing her boobs in a bikini, eating worms,sells ‘papers.
Fucking dross.
How do you look your children in the eye when you go home of a night, Dead Tree Scrollers?
Has Gary Robertson, or Gordon Brewer discussed this vicious lie as gospel on their What the Papers Say bits? Kaye Adams phone in SNP BAD expenses troughers?
Doubtless BBC will wheel on a couple of their ever growing stable of Unionist hacks to SNP Bad all over the studio floor.
WE are in the death throes of the English Empire, and even yet ProudScotsBut Uncle Toms belch out this garbage.
I note that the Murray Brothers are Both Number One, in tennis single and doubles; not that the Dead Tree Scrolls are making much of a song and dance about it.
They are not Scottish, after all, but British, until they falter, at which time they will return to being Scottish.
Alan Wells if memory serves, was the first of our sports people to suffer from this ‘nationality change’ at the hands of the hacks in the twilight of their careers. British when you’re winning, Scottish when the results tail off.
Still, worry not, long after the Murray Boys hang up their racquets, the grassy knoll abutting Centre Court will still be referred to a ‘Henman Hill’. named after the Eddy the Eagle of English Tennis, Tim Henman.
Is there not even ONE Pro Independence hack scribbling away in the MSM any more. Or have they all been ‘downsized’, and ‘rightsized’ out of the industry?
Well done, Marky Booth and as ever, Stu Campbell.
I can see why the Dead Tree Scrollers hate WoS.
Ruth was a BBC “journalist”…truth is not her friend. No real surprise that she grasp the media drivel cup with both hands and sup deeply.
She works on the basis that a lie is around the world before the truth has time to get its boots on and then she hopes people remember the lie rather than the liar.
I would love to see Murdo Fraser eating his words if somebody can show that exports to England consist of 50% on-going to foreign destinations.
Excellent work Marky thanks 🙂
Lets hope that kills off that yoon angle but knowing those zoomers it will appear again next month in another shock horror slap me down exclusive by the fail or raving express loonies and all the same little freaks will come out on social media spinning their lies some knowingly and some stupidly.
Yoons be relentless pish talkers if there was a world championship pish talking games they would clean sweep all the gold.
Was it not Einstein who said that “Whoever was careless with the truth in small matters,cannot be trusted with important matters” That is your journalists for you.
Wings and its supporters once again does “what is says on the tin”. Well done to everyone connected to this story and keep up the important work. The one thing they fear most is the truth and that is why they seldom use it!
Some earlier colonial media (stop sniggering at the back) lies (in case you missed them):
‘The Eck’s Files’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P4e3zLv1CU
Jack Collatin
“I doubt that any of them would even deny this now. Their weekly pay cheque demands that they do their masters’ bidding, and nothing else.”
Weekly ? I think you’ll find they’re on pay per Bad. Piecework.
Ms McMadyen is on turbo-bad, what with xmas coming up.
Great work. Great co-operation.
But when things hot up again, you will need the ability to launch this kind of easily digestible factual artillery much quicker and in greater volume.
It needs to go viral while the engagement is still live. You know that better than anyone.
So, how?
More Wing(wo)men?
In what capacity?
Staff? Associates? Renumerated volunteers?
More funds to pay for that?
The next indy battle will be fought very hard and very dirty by the established media, because Yes will be even more likely to win.
Resources need to be in place, and early.
In evolutionary terms we’re moving on though, as the Feudalists became the industrialists who spawned the Beaverbrooks of this world and who had no opposition in information terms.
Eventually this site and others will turn the tide-perhaps to coincide with the next IndeRef.
It’s an ill wind.
GMS, Distorting Scotland, Scotland 2016, a steadt diurnal stream of Unionist Propaganda listened to and watched by a few thousand diehards Yoons.
It must be a comfort for Retired, Outraged, Jordanhill, to listen to an overwhelmingly failed political Never Was and sectarian bigot that is The Queen’s Eleven Football Songs Harmless Murdo Fraser prattle on about how Really Really Bad the SNP are.
They are taking food from the mouths of our poorest children and laughing their heads off while they are doing it.
The flag is that of the United Kingdom, but the political culture is North Korea.
And by the way, does anyone still believe that UK elections are free and fair, with no Westminster interference?
The Rev should see if the National might be interested in publishing these real facts.
It is surely time we take one of these huge lies and one of these arsewipe newpapers to court.
Nice piece from Bateman today. Right to the point. Throw away all the interminable arguments about debatable figures and ask the cringers “So we are too stupid?”
“Nobody’s ever done it before and succeeded. Except for Ireland, obviously. Losing people and jobs at the time of independence, with a rural economy, only patchy native industry and few natural resources – not to mention a civil war – the Republic nevertheless today is forecast to end the year as Europe’s fastest growing economy.
Or New Zealand, clearly. When the UK joined the EEC, it ended the lucrative trade deal between the nations which, although ameliorated by temporary arrangements, forced New Zealand into diversification and a search for new markets – all at the time of a huge oil price rise when NZ imported all its oil. It’s now one of the happiest and well-run countries on the global index.
But, you see, they’re not Scottish. So Irish and Kiwi can do…Scottish not much. That’s why I love Andy Murray. He refuses to be an also-ran. That’s what we did in the indyref – declared ourselves also-rans – people who regard ourselves as unworthy. Just not good enough to run ourselves and to forge functioning, friendly relations with our near neighbours that would reassure those who value strong British ties.”
What really bothers me, is why are the SG/SNP not instantly refuting these daily attacks, it MUST be someones job to call them out. Or is it that no-one will run with the truth/denials. Getting really scunnered at this daily pish.
Three cheers for Marky Booth!
If I had a criticism (it isn’t really), it’s the “average cost of contributions” only considering voting record and debate contributions. Some MPs would *seem* to be doing less work for their money (Mhairi Black has only spoken 11 times, for instance), but it doesn’t acknowledge other contributions like committee, functions, or constituency work.
Even so, invaluable stuff.
@Rev Stu, “We just thought you’d like to know.”
I’m going to take a wild guess here Stu.
I guess that most of us already knew it was all lies and those who didn’t had already guessed as much but ALL OF US knew you’d be along in a bit to prove the matter beyond all reasonable doubt.
As always you are.
Roland Smith says:at 12:23 pm
The Rev should see if the National might be interested in publishing these real facts.
__________________________________________
Not long ago, Roland, I phoned The National about a similar project. The guy at The National agreed it was a good idea, but then, nothing.
I have to say too, that I have written nearer home re a collaboration with The National, but without reply.
Perhaps what is required is persistence to the point of becoming a pain in the neck.
Tin helmets on, chaps: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-bfH
(And you didn’t see me, okay?)
Man and boy, there’s a lovely traditional song with that title, a fine version sung by Aled Jones. Is that the inspiration for your moniker? 🙂
(I enjoy your contributions.)
Once a Government possesses and controls virtually all the means of propaganda, as in the UK, it is bound to feel omnipotent and unassailable in its ability to control the population. Particularly when the electorate, for the most part, have little idea about the extent of British propaganda.
Pass me the TV page, will you, I want to see when Strictly Baking is on.
My wee pal was a bit downcast at the media stories, (He’s muckle fond,(gullible), ye ken). He pops in most mornings to see I’m all right or perhaps need something from the shops.
Strangely enough the wee guy is an absolute whiz at mental arithmetic, dumb as can be at other forms of mathematics though.
I put it down to his misspent youth, and ever since, spent in the betting shop. He can work out complex odds and complex accumulators in seconds in his head.
He’s gone off with a print out copy of the article with a grin on his face that would put a Cheshire Cat to shame.
He’s also a bit like the town crier so I’m guessing the local Yoon Loon Boorach, (Group), have had an earful by this time.
@Norman Stewart says: 21 November, 2016 at 10:07 am:
… Now we need someone to do the hard graft on how much of what is exported from Scotland to England is then exported on to Europe and the rest of the world.”
Jings! Norman, that would take some doing. Those bodies are so numerous, some so very old and decayed, and all of them buried so deep and in such remote and diverse locations that even after we get access to the UK account books, those not already burned or shredded, we will never disinter the whole truth.
@Another Union Dividend says: 21 November, 2016 at 10:15 am:
” … too lazy, or short staffed, to do any proper research into Unionist claims”.
I believe I have a far more plausible explanation, A.U.D.
They simply have different agendas from the SG, we Cybernats and the YES movement.
Manandboy @ 12-53pm
As some suggest maybe The National isn’t keen to be too supportive? Could well be ‘ ownership pressure’s.
Well done to Marky.
I also had a look yesterday but the above is a bit clearer.
Hopefully Robert’s wee pal can put it into a bar graph, not one like KH’s but a proper one.
The thing about speaking in the Hoose, not sure if this is because the SNP don’t get chosen to speak or as Taranaich says, MB does a lot in committee work.
She’s making a good name for herself in England with her Waspi work.
Lastly Ruth the Mooth will not be getting her fingers rapped by the PO, this is the reply I received in questioning her lies in Holyrood:
”As you know, First Minister’s Questions is a central component of the Parliamentary week and one of the main ways for the Parliament to hold the First Minister and the Scottish Government to account. Given the prominence of the participants and the interest from the public and the media, it is invariably more robust than other periods of questioning or debates. However, my Deputies and I closely monitor the conduct of Members during all proceedings in the chamber.
When necessary, I remind all Members about the use of language and the conduct that I expect whilst Members are in the Debating Chamber. However, I am conscious of the need to ensure that exchanges are not stifled or restrained and so I work very hard to achieve a balance between robust scrutiny and respectful behaviour”
He then goes on to say it’s up to the MSPs to complain and I might like to take this up with some or all of them
A very excellent piece of work and thank you to all involved.
It would be criminal for this not to get a much wider audience, nationally, so i would like to make a suggestion.
Is there enough interest out there, among Wingers, to start a crowdfund to create a small (say 8-page) newsletter containing all the info, and more, within this article?
We could then get it distributed into every nook and cranny around Scotland just in time for the May council elections. Or perhaps this is something the SNP, with their massive membership, should be taking on board.
Are any Wingers, who are also SNP members, willing to contact the SNP and draw their attention to this article and suggest a similar idea of making the public aware?
@Tombee says: Tombee says: 21 November, 2016 at 10:16 am:
“Give any liar enough rope and they will, eventually, hang themselves. The trouble is, the lies are out. The gullable are influenced, and affected.”
Ah! Tombee, the facts tell me that things are not always as they seem on the surface. One of those facts is that the numbers seeking Independence for Scotland are NOT decreasing but continue to increase. That to me says that the lies, omissions and deflections are not all hitting their targets. Some at least are going astray.
My old wise Granny always told me that there was always an up side to every downside if you bother to look for it.
I always do look for it, (it saves the Scottish NHS a fortune in anti-depressants). So here’s what I see as the upside :-
It only takes just one Yoon Loon Media lie, omission or deflection to be conclusively proven deliberately wrong to recruit a NO voter from the host of YES voters. What is more, like ex-smokers or ex-drinkers, these converts will become the most ardent campaigners against their former vices.
If you do not believe me just note how many Wingers are eager to tell us now they were once former unionists. Yet most will add something like, “I’ll never vote Labour again”. Just like the ex-smoker – they are proud to be strong enough to have wised up and given up their cancerous bad habits.
very interesting to see that Ruth Davidson has more or less endorsed calling the SNP MPs ‘Fuckpigs’, when she chipped into the lies on Twitter. Will she be asked to explain that on in Holyrood?
Stoker
Joanna Cherry and Rona Mackay have both acknowledged Rev’s article in tweets. On Revs twitter feed.
Just to let you know 🙂
Re exports to England that are really exports elsewhere ie in transit. We don’t need to show how all of it happens, but simply a single good example. Perhaps the best one would be whisky, since it’s a major export and there’s no whisky industry in England to muddy the waters.
@Chic McGregor says: 21 November, 2016 at 10:18 am:
“I’d like to think our excuse for an MSM had red faces now, but a forlorn hope I fear.”
Aye! Chic, but crisp banknotes in the wallet and a fond hope of a UK honour in the heart are great cures for a troubled conscience.
These people have no honour, nor do they have a conscience. Which is why so many Scots see the so called honour as a very positive dishonour.
Excellent work by Marky Booth. Thank god we have people like Marky and the Rev to reveal the truth about britnat media lies. Next time the britnats comes out with more lies about SNP expenses – and they will try it again – we should pummel them with the truth as supplied above.
Don’t buy britnat newspapers. Don’t pay the bbc tax.
After all their lies why would anyone ever trust the msm.
They can only be depended on to lie and distort the truth.
They are speeding up their inevitable demise.
No one will miss them.
Turkey’s and Christmas, springs to mind.
@Roboscot,
There are facts we already know about whisky.
It contributes £4 billion annually to the UK economy
It pays £1 billion in taxes annually.
It directly employs 10,000 peple in Scotland.
It employs another 30,000 throughout the UK in handling distribution etc.
Around 9% of whisky is consumed in the UK, the rest goes abroad.
Whiskey consumed in the UK is subject to duty and VAT. Around 70% of the cost of a bottle is duty.
The fact is that there is no export duty as such on whisky,but what we actually need to find out is if there is duty applied on the price of a bottle prior to export or not,, and whether the value of that export is attributed to the point of shipment rather than the point of origin.
I am still researching this issue. I have tried to speak to a shipper of bulk whisky in Dundee but they are very reticent to give replies.
It seems in any event that Scotland receives a population share of alcohol revenues but it is not clear whether any of that is attributable directly to exports of whisky.
Very murky,
The “expenses scandal” smear seems to be a repeated line of attack.
If only this students research could get to the masses outside the twitter bubble, repeatedly.
Dugdale’s Dear Philp letter to the Chancellor:
“As you will be aware, Scotland’s block grant was cut by 5.6% between 2010-11 and 2015-16, and under current plans will be cut by an additional 4.3% between 2015-16 and 2019-20. Any further cuts over and above this would be absolutely unacceptable and would have serious repercussions for the funding of public services in Scotland, which are already under strain. I urge you to reconsider your current plans, which would see a further £1.2 billion reduction in the block grant by the end of this Parliament.”
Something to remind Labour / Cosla / BBC next time they came up with SNP just blaming Westminster for cuts / problems.
http://archive.is/jlFnA
OT sort of:
IndyRef2’s London Calling on DVD. Please donate if possible.
http://indyref2.scot/london-calling-dvd-appeal#comment-20842
With regards to the question of how much of the Scottish “exports” to England are really for English consumption and how much are for onward exportation I believe this very question, or one very similar, was actually by the S.N.P. in Westminster recently. Sorry but I can’t remember which M.P. asked the question.
If I remember rightly there was some discussion at the time on Twitter that re exportation of Scottish “exports” might run as high a 75% of what we export to England.
@fillofficer says: 21 November, 2016 at 12:37 pm:
“What really bothers me, is why are the SG/SNP not instantly refuting these daily attacks, … “
They do, fillofficer, but who is to report that they do so?
Only the SNPs own website, Wings and the few other blogs and websites that are pro-indy. Which means they are all mainly preaching to the already converted.
You certainly are not going to read about it in the Dead Tree Press nor hear or watch it on the pro-Yoon Loon Main Stream Media.
You will only otherwise get it as a leaflet through the letterbox or by word of mouth or on social media and on social media the overwhelming numbers of, “Twits”, and, “Faces in the Book”, are Yoon Loons, Britnats and other lying extremists.
It is the old tale again of taking horses to water but being unable to make them drink, (unless the horses choose to do so).
@Arbroath 1320
It was Stewart Mcdonald I believe.
Graeme Doig at 2:08 pm
Cheers, Graeme, still playing catch-up and not been over to twitter yet.
Well done Marky Booth. I trust he has an Alert Reader badge.
re exports. I agree that focusing on one prime export like whisky is a good idea. 100% of whisky production is Scottish, and most of oil production too. Oil exports seem to come from an “unknown region” according to the Treasury.
But it’s a bit deceitful to allocate just a “population share” of these revenues. That would make 8% attributable to Scotland and 92% to England. Surely, in the case of whisky, 100% of exports are Scottish regardless of which port they are exported from?
Afternoon UKOK hackdom counterbalance Torrance style.
“David Torrance: While skilful at big-picture stuff, the SNP is still pretty weak on boring old detail”
Very er, rich from angry walnut. All the usual yoonster toryboy group hugging Herald style. No idea how adblock works but Herald pages really seems to wrestle with it, and then give up:D
Marky Booth, WELL DONE!!
I hope your Director of Studies sees this Stirling (deliberate spelling) piece of work!
Thank you for taking the initiative = )
Thanks for that Bob.
I think he is still waiting any sort of confirmation about the levels of onward exporting. Even if it is less than the original 75% (of Scottish exports to England) originally thought it is still far too high for it NOT to be included in SCOTLAND’s figures as opposed to England’s figures in my view.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if The National printed tomorrow’s front page headline :
Unionist Press Lies Exposed Again!
or
SNP MPs Best Value For Money!
They’re good guys = ) I live in hope = )
I am so glad the question of Scotland’s exports is being addressed.
Now that really will have to be a strong and clear headline!
OT Judy Murray must be the proudest mum in Scotland today with the success of both her boys being year end No 1’s in Tennis.
https://twitter.com/JudyMurray/status/800439294133465088
Even more Scotland bad, SNP bad, sack Humza, explains the Graun, aiming all that UKOK goodness at Montrose today,
http://archive.is/EsOy9
No idea who Dick Stiff actually is but Graun likes him.
Dick Stiff Linked in thingee says he’s,
Keen to promote collaboration, local, inter agency, national and international.
Devoted to Ipswich Town FC and Essex County Cricket Club and I like motorcycles – occasional spannerman for my club racing son – and boats, France and all things Suffolk.
Other Dick Stiff Courier news, wants SNP MSP to quit, waste of money, shock.
http://archive.is/FRn2x
@Capella,
Well no ,is the simple answer. They are exported from several English ports and airports who then receive that figure as part of their economic contribution.
Whisky in itself is not expensive. The reality is that a bottle of medium/good quality whisky only costs around £ 3 from the distillery.
In the UK there are approximately 25million bottles sold a year ,all having duty of around £8 -9 levied per bottle (tax +VAT). This amounts to around £2 billion or just under.
Notwithstanding that Scotland also makes Gin and several other spirits with slightly less UK sales the tax total cannot be far off £3 billion.
Yet GERS allocates us a share of £900 odd million alcohol tax. I have not included beer from the likes of Tennant, only spirits.
Export whisky is the issue. We know it fuels over 30,000 jobs in England as well as transport costs associated with the port or airport involved. Lots of money for the local areas !
What we need to find out is if the wholesale price to the rest of the world is the standard £3 or if there are duties paid,
@Capella,
Sorry the amounts of UK whisky revenue is 250 million not 2 billion.need to sit down and work it all out.
@Heedtracker
Or in short. A politically partisan non entity in a politically partisan title, takes a politically partisan view on an opponent.
I’m seeing a pattern forming. 😀
Jeez. I mock the SNP for saying that SNP MPs are harder-working than their predecessors – which is why their travel expenses are so high –
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/demand-for-probe-into-snp-mps-expenses-1-4292849
and get a gibbering flock of anonymous squeakers from your baggage train tweeting me to ‘apologise’ and ‘retract’. Well stuff that Stu, I had it exactly right on that particular point (I concede I should have put ‘travel’ before expenses.
I realise of course you have no direct control over your Igors, or respect for most of them for that matter – I’ve seen you slap them down yourself when they irritate you with their clawing at your troosers – ‘Oh master, Oh master, I love you” but ffs, Scottish cybergab doesn’t have to be a Manichean arena.
We do all get stuff wrong from time to time, exaggerate, maybe swat trolls a bit too exuberantly. I suggest you stroke your rodents more often, we all have some stuff in common (I like rats too but our old cat and the rest of the family are in alliance agin me).
O/T slightly but sort of relevant too…
Re what’s been left out of the BBC e- news coverage today…
Andy Murray, World Number One and ATP singles Champion
Jamie Murray, World number One Doubles Champion
Search the BBC website and you will find only this at the very bottom of the page, underneath a larger article about Cricket ( I think?)
‘Panic sets in for England’
‘Andy Murray deserves a lot of credit’
NOTHING on the UK webpage;
On the BBC Scotland webpage there is a short video entitled:
‘It’s a special day for my family”
and a mention of his name in the Scottish Papers section:
‘Murray on top and E-coli in chickens”
it then says rather economically ‘Murray world number one’ – no mention of which Murray, Andy or Jamie or both!!!
Finally in the Scottish Sport section it says:
” Murray switches focus to Grand Slams” then in small letters
‘BRITON (my capitals) Andy Murray sets his sights on adding three Grand Slam titles after securing the year end number one title.
Exactly how did he secure that title… HE WON!!! Can’t they tell us some good news?
The BBC Sport page is little better.
Add to that the D. Express headline of “SNP panic over rail Shambles” and you really do get to see at first hand the games that the media is playing.
It’s sad enough that Andy Murray is not given the coverage he deserves but Jamie is almost ignored.
Would it be like this if the Brownlee brothers had both been number one in the world this weekend or even Venus and Serena Williams? I wonder…
I do realise that the papers have excelled themselves and most have managed some comment on the front page but it’s not brilliant.
Will look froward to the Stirling Observer coverage when it comes out this wednesday – THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY.
rant over…
Macart says:
21 November, 2016 at 4:11 pm
@Heedtracker
Only in Scotland, CEO Montrose council piles on, SNP bad and he’s “Devoted to Ipswich Town FC and Essex County Cricket Club and I like motorcycles – occasional spannerman for my club racing son – and boats, France and all things Suffolk.”
Other, other SNP bad Graun news, yoon culture in Scotland can say what they like about Nic Sturgeon and her SNP, from Ipswitch or anywhere, but she’s nae feart of anyone.
http://archive.is/wn8w0
“It was into this breach that Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, stepped last week when she told the Scottish parliament that she would explore the possibility of women and girls from Northern Ireland being able to access terminations through NHS Scotland.
Her intervention has enraged the deeply conservative Democratic Unionist party (DUP), Northern Ireland’s largest party of government,”
Facts are needed (this article is a great example) to refute the blatant inaccuracies in the media that appears to function purely to limit and manipulate public opinion. There is no interest from established media in promoting deliberative democracy with this level of misinformation and there is a clear agenda to undermine anything that’s related to Scotland’s autonomy.
That may have worked before sites like this and other Indy supporting media existed but now,despite the weight of journalism against SG / SNP/ the YES movement/ civic nationalism the corporate media has lost control of an electorate that has all the attributes that are necessary to solve collective problems – information,efficacy,public spiritedness and political participation.
An attentive and informed public cannot be manipulated.
Please read the articles about Richard Stiff more carefully – the infrastructure projects have been called for for ages and he did not call for my MSP’s resignation.
Not sure how we unpick Scotland’s actual trade balance to be honest but a simpler way is to actually explain government finances to people.
I was disappointed at commonweal’ pandering to the neoliberal flat eart view of government deficits the other day. I understood why they attempted it but in doing so they are wasting time taking about an economic axiom which is the equivalent of pre-copernican astronomy.
Discussing spending versus income at the aggregate level makes no sense, simply because SPENDING IS INCOME. Today’s pounds produced in taxation were yesterday’s investment. Where else could the £ comes from? It is no surprise that the spending gap is the lowest (smallest deficit) in London and the SE – remember the govt guarantees of the banking sector – bonuses and all?!
Now in around 4 or 5 years who will have the smallest spending gap? Yes have guessed it – the same area – 3rd runway anyone?
Today’s deficit spending is tomorrow’s tax windfall. Spending is income.
Chic McGregor says:
21 November, 2016 at 3:53 pm
“”OT Judy Murray must be the proudest mum in Scotland today with the success of both her boys being year end No 1’s in Tennis.
https://twitter.com/JudyMurray/status/800439294133465088“”
I am sure their father is very proud too.
Not a single moment here where the possibility of the journalists being the source of the bullshit is considered.
Ex BBC, you see!
http://archive.is/piV7d
Paula Rose says:
21 November, 2016 at 4:28 pm
Please read the articles about Richard Stiff more carefully
Paula good advice, who called for the MSP to resign and why again? Dick Stiff, Angus council CEO, devoted to all things France and Suffolk, which is nice.
Legerwood says:
21 November, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Chic McGregor says:
21 November, 2016 at 3:53 pm
“”OT Judy Murray must be the proudest mum in Scotland today with the success of both her boys being year end No 1’s in Tennis.
Hey Legerwood are you still opposed to the Clan Murray tennis centre, what got booted out by yoon Stirling council lately?
See the Murray are not giving up on that either:D
According to the Scottish Whisky Association web site, the whisky stats are:
Exports generated £3.95 billion for the UK balance of trade.
Exports earned £125 every second.
38 bottles were shipped overseas each second.
99 million cases (12 70cl bottles at 40% vol) were exported worldwide.
About £1 billion contributed to the Exchequer in taxes.
(Source: http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/what-we-do/facts-figures/)
Not sure if domestic sales are included. Anyway, hope that helps (someone).
This paper may also be of use (Scotland’s exports 2014 to UK and ROW).
http://tinyurl.com/jcuw5ru
From the paper (link above):
Rest of UK estimates
Rest of UK exports relate to trade from Scotland to either England, Wales or Northern Ireland. As with international exports, it is possible that exports to the rest of UK are further transported onwards to an international destination as the survey does not collect the final destination of goods or services.
It is indeed a brilliant piece of work. Well done, Marky.
For all the awesome Wings talent and dedication at our disposal, perhaps it is time to go on the attack and take the fight to them. Instead of working hard to neutralise all the yoon politicians’ attacks, could we start digging up the shit on them? Of course it would be more difficult to spread (the yoon press would not help) but the National, MSM and large posters/leaflets could help. Let’s face it – there is plenty of yoon shit out there. It’s a potential gold mine (there’s money in muck!). We just have to be clever and think of ways of communicating it to the public.
Rev campbell and WoS is doing a brilliant job, but we always seem to be reacting/defending and not dictating the game. Time to go on the counterattack. Let’s seize the initiative, and see if they like a dose of their own medicine. They won’t like it up em. 🙂
@Capella says: 21 November, 2016 at 3:19 pm:
“re exports. I agree that focusing on one prime export like whisky is a good idea. 100% of whisky production is Scottish, and most of oil production too. Oil exports seem to come from an “unknown region” according to the Treasury.”
That region they claim to be an, “unknown”, region is in fact very well known as, “Extra-Regio Territory”.
There can be no more well surveyed sea areas in the World than the oil & gas bearing strata of the British Isles oil & gas producing strata.
Their is nothing whatsoever unknown about it except the exact percentage of the products that are extracted from the respective territories of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.
The sole reason that this is not known is because the ONS does not ask what per annum oil & gas production is out of production due to breakdown and maintenance of wellheads in the respective territories of the United Kingdom.
Thus the relative percentage of production varies in relation to how much of the out of service wellheads lie in Scottish and English territory. It seems to average out at between around 95% and 98% from Scottish waters.
Which rightly beggars the question you ask, Capella. Why do Westminster then proportion the products on a population basis.
@Heedtracker A Councillor – making trouble.
Tee hee
See what appeared on the BBC Scotland webpage about an hour ago – do they read WOS?
Charming video of a 14 year old A Murray playing tennis on Reporting Scotland in the old days when it did!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38056907
This is the kind of truth screaming out to be put on billboards across the central belt and posters put up in house windows.
I don’t get the SNP in persisting in trying to woo the media! It’s about time they told them to gtf and stop doing interviews. They really are spineless and should really be calling them out !
No more gutless interviews and all media statements published on their own website. A total blanket refusal to answer any questions should be mandatory, I’m sick to death of the namby pamby attitude.
We all know they are doing a good job but ffs wake up and smell the coffee and get your shit together ?
@Heed
TBF Heed there’s not so much of the pointy fingers and shouty stuff in that article we’re used to from the usual suspects. The inference of bother is all in the first couple paras and everyone else is basically stating their wish list for government funding.
‘Course they are stating the obvious a bit, in that Scotland’s transport infrastructure has suffered neglect for decades and needs investment badly. Airports, roads, rail, bridges, all of it has suffered and its going to be almost as long to overhaul it one project at a time. (shrugs)
With an ever shrinking budget though, I’m not seeing too many suggesting just where the cash for their particular project is going to come from. I think they’ll find that everyone’s project is the most important. The Mark Ruskell quote near the bottom of the piece came close when he said: “The danger is we end up with a political beauty contest pitching one community’s needs against another due to the limited ambition of government to invest in rail compared to road,”.
It already has become a beauty contest and it has nothing to do with lack of ambition over rail investment.
Meg merrilees says:
21 November, 2016 at 5:18 pm
Tee hee
See what appeared on the BBC Scotland webpage about an hour ago – do they read WOS?
And it ends “so that one day, Scotland can say it truly had a contender for the Wimbledon championship.”
Some contender.
The Murray World No.1 triumph’s been rapidly buried by UKOK hackdom sadly. Andy’s up there with the greats like Roger Federer and Bjorn Borg now, above and beyond anything any English player has ever got close to. But likes of tory BBC r4 lunchtime news whole 45 minute show today, never even mentioned the word Murray. The shits.
OT: Things are hotting up, “Scottish Claim of Right to be used in Brexit case against UK government” :- http://archive.is/DtIet
I should put a bet on that March 2017 date now, Wonder what the odds are for “Brexit does not mean Brexit” for end of March 2017 🙂
Heedtracker @ 4.41
Yes.
If you really want a fitting legacy then a white elephant supported by a business plan that has more holes in it than a tennis net is not it.
Something along the lines of the Carnegie libraries – centres across Scotland – that would be of benefit to communities and increase their tourism offer would be a more fitting tribute. And a better use of public money because it will be mostly public money that pays for PoK not just the £1 million pound houses with their £50,000 debenture scheme.
Macart says:
21 November, 2016 at 5:44 pm
@Heed
Yes to all of the above. Scotland’s like the old gag, you wouldn’t start from here. In Aberdeen, they built the Dyce airport terminal on the other side of the runway from Dyce rail station. So we have had decades of traffic logjams on the one Victorian access road, for the oil capital of Europe’s air link, a terrible slow bus service, but taxi drivers sending their kids to Eton:D
There’s always an upside. Its just the usual teamGB stumbling mess, as we have to listen to them griping about the English two hour commute each way now. If you pump hundreds of billions for decades into the south east of one part of these islands, you’re going to have massive transport problems, or very long boring expensive commutes.
Ultimately its all had a catastrophic impact on Scottish economic growth but lets focus on SNP bad. Lot of catching up to do and never visit oil poor Norway with their 22nd century transport network. Holy fcuk.
And a better use of public money because it will be mostly public money that pays for PoK not just the £1 million pound houses with their £50,000 debenture scheme.”
Legerwood, Scotland’s greenbelts are getting covered in Stewart Milne and Barrat style housing estates, some with million pound pads, from Glasgow, Dundee to Aberdeen. Woe Betide the terrible disaster of the Murray tennis centre plans, if they include houses too. How very dare they!!!
30/15 me, Legerwood:D
Scotland has lost at least £4Billion+ a year since the 2010 Budget because of the illegal, unfair, UK tax/tariff burden of 60% to 80%, when the price had fallen 75%. (Osbourne). It is now 40%. More than any other industry. Losing thousands of jobs and £24Billion.+
Now the Tories/Unionist at Westminster are losing thousands of decommissioning jobs, To muck up the Scottish economy.
Crowing about £1/2Billion back over 10 years in Aberdeen. The useless, ignorant incompetents. A new airport terminal should be built near the train station.
Re “Bob Mack @ 0403pm ” the 30,000 jobs associated in England
with whisky distribution/ exports ( if accurate ) is really quite “staggering”.
How many other jobs down south have been created from Scottish exports
of the many other products and services originating from Scotland for onward distribution/ export
to Europe and ROW ??
@North Chiel,
The 30,000 jobs figure is from the Scottish Whisky Associations own website.
A Tory has been claiming for road travel journeys when he wasn’t even in Britain, but overseas on numerous jollies. £450Miliion to renovate a Palace. £Billions to renovate Westminster.
O/T
Billy Kay is speaking at the Caledonian Hotel,Brechin tomorrow night.He always has something interesting to say and has a wealth of great stories.Doors open at 7pm.Come along early for a guid nichts craic among friends in the struggle for our country’s independence.
Re;Ken500@6.18
That is clearly the aim of WM, to ‘muck up the Scottish economy’. Added to that is the loss to the Scottish government and local economies due to the UK Govs bedroom tax, ILF, EMA, DWP sanctions, Crisis funding cuts,etc and all while the Scottish government have been finding the cash to improve infrastructure in Scotland and all while we are still forced to pay for england’s vanity projects. The ScotGov have had to mitigate on so many levels, and have had to even mitigate due to the Scottish unionist councils making the most horrendous cuts to services, when in fact they have the cash sitting there.
Next year will be 10 years of SNP government, expect the unionists to make hay out of that, but we can make big hay out of the fact that unionists did virtually nothing to progress Scotland, to help keep up with 20/21st century progress! No, the unionists have kept Scotland poor, and they have and continue to do that, deliberately!
A multimillionaire Tory has been over charging on local Gov contracts. The construction firm is a shambles.
The Tories have been overtaxing the Oil & Gas sector when prices have fallen. Losing Billions and thousands of jobs. Spending £Billions on Trident. An obscene, obsolete waste of money.
@Neil Cook says: 21 November, 2016 at 5:37 pm:
“I don’t get the SNP in persisting in trying to woo the media! “
Aye! Neil, you’re just one more Yoon Loon telling us, “SNP BaaaD!”.
Answer me this, Neil, and answer it truthfully.
When was the last time you, personally, read the SNP website?
Now answer me this – can you access the member area of that website?
Now here are the stone cold facts – There are no MSM outlets that are owned and run by Scottish Nationalist supporting owners.
They are mainly owned by very rich Britnats who are ready to suffer losses. or by very rich foreign owners or by the Westminster controlled unionist government.
Thus telling them to GTF would only result in antagonising them further. In any case it sticks out a proverbial country mile that whatever it is the SNP are doing they are doing it right.
The evidence is that the support for Scottish independence continues to grow and the circulation figures for publications is dropping like a stone and viewer/listener figures go down and further down with every publication of figures.
That means with every set of figures the people who vote are NOT listening, viewing and reading as much as before.
You do not attempt to sort what is not broken and you must never interrupt your enemy when he/she is making errors.
So, unless you know of a publication or broadcaster willing to tell the independence side’s press releases without selective editing stop criticising what is in fact a winning formula.
Some comments.
Marky Booth is now a marked man!
There is a National newspaper get-together tomorrow in the Yes-Bar. at 7.00 pm Bring the voucher for free beer or wine.
I have a funeral to go to on Wednesday. A sister of a schoolfriend from primary days. A virulent anti SNP Yoon. There is always a plus side.
I pushed the crowdfunder for “London Calling” DVD over 1K.
Interesting times.
Hi Ken500
Yes I had a vague idea of that as I (charity shop) bought a book, ‘Black and Green Gold’ by the Balmoral group, published in 2010.
It is first hand experience and it basically indicates the downfall via high taxation, of North Sea Oil, the decommissioning of viable platforms etc. I hate dirty fuel, but would much rather the ScotGov had control so they could make headway in renewables even more than they are attempting to do, and move away from dirty fuel as soon as.
With independence that could still happen!
heedtracker says:
21 November, 2016 at 6:00 pm
“”And a better use of public money because it will be mostly public money that pays for PoK not just the £1 million pound houses with their £50,000 debenture scheme.”
Legerwood, Scotland’s greenbelts are getting covered in Stewart Milne and Barrat style housing estates, some with million pound pads, from Glasgow, Dundee to Aberdeen. Woe Betide the terrible disaster of the Murray tennis centre plans, if they include houses too. How very dare they!!!
30/15 me, Legerwood:D””
……….
It always amuses me how quickly people touch the forelock and give obeisance for the flimsiest of reasons particularly those who keep going on about ‘yoons’ and ‘Tory boys’.
Recognise anyone Heedtracker?
Game, set, Match – Moi.
Well done Marky Booth. A fantastic piece of research which brings the facts and only the facts to the people of Scotland. OK this won’t reach even half the population but with the Rev’s help it has reached as many as possible.
It’s great that a young student can give a red face to the lying media, already the usual suspects are backtracking on the SNP “expenses scandal” because the truth is that if there has been any scandal then it lies with the Red Tory party in Scotland.
Hat tip to you Marky 🙂
silver19 says at 5:47 pm Things are hotting up, “Scottish Claim of Right to be used in Brexit case against UK government” :- http://archive.is/DtIet
Very interesting, no wonder some Tories want May to stop her appeal.
Meanwhile good article from Business For Scotland on Brexit
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/certainty-brexit-second-independence-referendum/
and from Derek Bateman on Labour’s attampt to link SNP ideology with Trump
http://derekbateman.scot/2016/11/21/sadness-in-his-eyes/
Thank you Mark Booth, for exposing more unionist lies, and thank you Rev, for helping to make us aware of them.
After reading Stuart’s article, it was only another little ray of hope that was added to another that took place today.
A colleague (who is a Unionist at heart), and floats in now and again from another site and who we hadn’t seen in a wee while, sat down, and began discussing Brexit. This guy is angry over a proposed holiday to Florida next year which has now gone up in price, thanks to post-EU Referendum (I don’t quite know why the price has gone up, but I took his word for it as he was pretty annoyed about it). He then mumped and moaned about how the Tories won’t fix Brexit and are instead as far as he is concerned, are wandering around clueless. Then he went on to grump about the £369 million pound to be spent on Buckingham Palace. And oh aye, he hates Farage. Hates him. And now hates Trump too!
And then came that golden moment in which you could tell through the apathy and disgruntlement, he then stated ‘…absolutely fed up with it all! Seriously, is there anyway we can end this f****** union with England?’
This guy, who two years ago, was a hardcore Unionist who loved the Queen and voted ‘No’ in the 2014 Referendum.
Not anymore.
It’s happening folks. There are ‘No’s’ out there who are getting pretty disgruntled with the British State.
So have faith. Hope springs eternal!
Worth noting the superleague of MPs whose cost per contribution for 2013-2015 (over the two years, if I’ve done my sums right) was more than ten times that of the average MP in 2015/16: Eric Joyce (£37k), Gordon Brown (£31k), Alistair Darling (£29k, frankly).
Honorable mentions to Gordon Banks (£24k), Frank Doran (£23k), Tom Harris (£19k).
@silver19 says: 21 November, 2016 at 5:47 pm:
“OT: Things are hotting up, “Scottish Claim of Right to be used in Brexit case against UK government” :- http://archive.is/DtIet“
That, silver19 is exactly the mantra I’ve been pushing since I started to comment on wings and I’m still getting pelters from some commenters who claim to be independence supporters.
That Claim of Right is the claim that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and the mere fact that they have had to make a claim of right when the United Kingdom is a bipartite Treaty of Union between two kingdoms and their claim has always been denied is enough legal proof that the whole devolution and EVEL things are not only non-constitutional, non-democratic but are illegal too.
If there is further proof needed we have Mundell, stating on TV, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England (as), the United Kingdom”.
There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in the Treaty of Union that even hints at such a thing. In fact the word country is not used in the treaty.
Thus the legal fact is that the union united two Kingdoms it did not united two, or even four, countries and adding two kingdoms together and thus making one country is like adding apples to oranges and calling it a fruit salad. It may indeed be a fruit salad but what it most certainly is not is either a number of apples nor is it a number of oranges.
So just how did we end up with a set-up of England posing as the United Kingdom and devolving its English powers, unequally, to three other countries?
How come they claim that when those two Kingdoms split up that England will remain as an rUK? With Scotland gone just who is it the Kingdom of England that joined the United Kingdom in 1706/7 and was a three country kingdom on that day, can leave it as a United Kingdom?
The fact is that an article of the Treaty of Union specifically guarantees that Scottish law will remain independent in perpetuity so no court can legally rule that it has legal sovereignty to overrule the Scottish High court and thus over rule Scottish sovereignty.
Regarding whisky exports, you might find this interesting.
Over 90% of Scotch Whisky produced is exported to about 200 markets around the world. Although small quantities are transported to the near continent using the Channel Tunnel, the majority is moved by sea. Short sea feeder services connect Scotland to the continent. Almost all Scotch Whisky exported to Spain was shipped directly from Scotland in 2012.
Exports to markets outside the EU require deep sea movements. As no deep sea shipping services call into Scotland, the industry relies on the large deep sea ports in England and the near continent. We welcome investments in those ports such as the new Liverpool 2 deep water terminal and the London Gateway which should increase the UK’s connectivity with the rest of the world. The industry believes that more could be done to improve connectivity with those deep sea ports.
http://www.parliament.scot/S4_InfrastructureandCapitalInvestmentCommittee/Inquiries/Scotch_Whisky_Association.pdf
As for transport by sea which is of course the main export route, the report has this to say.
Sea: Grangemouth, Greenock and Rosyth are the main Scottish ports that are used to transfer Scotch Whisky to deep sea ports located in England (notably Felixstowe, Southampton and Tilbury) and Europe (notably Antwerp and Rotterdam).
The industry would welcome more frequent feeder services and routes from Scottish ports to those deep sea ports. This would improve connectivity with Scotch Whisky markets and would also benefit other industries seeking to increase exports.
Someone might want to work out the actual value of exports of whisky that are counted as English exports from the deep sea ports outwith the EU. A brief look tells me it is in excess of 75% or £3 billion from around £4 billion of total exports.
Total export figures by country for 2015 can be downloaded here.
http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/news-publications/news/optimistic-outlook-for-scotch-whisky-exports/#.WDNLq-aLREY
Remember that every export outwith the EU goes via the deep sea English ports and it would not surprise me if less than 50% of that exported to the EU came from Scotland.
@JLT 7:31pm
Good news indeed. I’ve said it before… it’s the britnat nutters in Westminster and the media who are doing the most damage to the so-called united kingdom.
@Robert Peffers
RE : Claim of Right
Absolutely agree with you, Robert. A few of us discussed this over the weekend on our local ‘Yes’ Facebook page, and we concluded that the ‘Claim of Right Act 1689’ was indeed the very act that stated that the people of Scotland were sovereign. The Act being introduced in the early stages of the Glorious Revolution when James VII was seen in the eyes of the Scottish Parliament, to have ‘abdicated’. Without a legal sovereign, authority therefore passed to the Scottish Parliament, and therefore, the people (or nobles to probably be precise. It meant that the Three Estates were therefore in charge).
This all took place before the 1707 Treaty of Union, and therefore meant that whether the Unionists like it or not, sovereignty lies with the Scottish people, while sovereignty for the English people, lies within Westminster as also agreed during the Glorious Revolution (which is why the English judiciary were correct in their assessment last week that Brexit must be discussed in Parliament since that is the place of sovereignty and authority).
But this my friend …you already knew LOL
But yes …absolutely agree with you in what you say, Robert.
I’m just saying –
If you are truly pissed off with these voices of excrement
http://archive.is/2Olji
Hi Heedtracker.
You typed,
“Other Dick Stiff Courier news, wants SNP MSP to quit, waste of money, shock.
http://archive.is/FRn2x “
As Paula Rose has pointed out to you, and your link states, it WASN’T the Chief Executive of Angus Council who called for the SNP MSP to quit.
This is from your link:-
“… and five months on Arbroath councillor David Fairweather is bringing a motion to the full meeting of the council which questions her continuing to hold both posts.
It states: “This council calls on chief executive Richard Stiff to write to Councillor Mairi Evans (MSP) requesting that she considers her position as a representative for the constituents of this council’s Brechin and Edzell ward.””
It’s obvious from your link that it was David Fairweather who wanted the MSP to quit, not the Chief Executive.
Perchance you misunderstood what you were reading? I note you haven’t responded to Paula Rose about your mistake…
Recognise anyone Heedtracker?
Game, set, Match – Moi.
Murray’s plan is a sports centre with some houses, yes they could be going for a million quid, shock.
A sports centre, in a 3 or 4 fields along the M90, and it brings out creepy insult, also, shock.
It would/could/may/might be a massive boost for Scottish tennis and Scottish sport in general. It would/could/may/might grow into something as good for the Scottish economy as
https://www.rafanadalacademy.com/en/
But its not for Scotland or Scotland’s merry band of nimby’s rather, who are totally oblivious to all the big housing estates going up in green belts across Scotland, and on it goes in teamGB.
@Jlt,
The claim of Right was also signed in 1989 and signed by no less than Gordon Brown Alistair Darling, and most other MP’S with the exception of Tam Dyell who refused,
They all acknowledged the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
Interesting discussion on channel 4 news on implications of Brexit between Merryn SW in Edinburgh and a lady from the University of Sussex who took no shit.
I was surprised to hear Merryn describe freedom of movement as being the main thing that businesses she has been speaking to are really worried about.
It is strange seeing as on Thursday night on QT she was adamant that the uncertainty of a possible second Scottish Independence referendum was the main concern.
The discussion followed a migrant business owner who was mulling over moving to Berlin, and a piece on efforts Berlin is making to lure firms from London.
Merryn doesn’t think this is a problem because the reasons why people come to live and do business in the UK haven’t changed. She is going to be the one to watch when the plane hits the mountain.
worth a watch if only to see her flamingo motif’d blouse. It’s about 40 minutes into the programme.
Brilliant and can you put out a summary of the annual costs and the cost per contribution comparisons on twitter. This should trully rubbish the MSM spin. I had tried to counter on times attended versus lack of for several Scot Labour MPs in past. This analysis is really clearer.
Awesome year for Scottish Tennis, 3 No 1’s with The Murray Brothers and Gordon Reid. Taking over the hooray Henry sport in style – it’s just nit British 🙂
Perchance you misunderstood what you were reading? I note you haven’t responded to Paula Rose about your mistake…
What did I say that was wrong though? Dick Stiff popped up in national newspaper Guardian routine and daily SNP/Scotland campaign, this afternoon.
Never heard of Dick Stiff, googled name and Courier’s SNP bad story came up first, with the Angus council asking the CEO, Dick to do his thing, write to MSP Mairi Evans to resign as a councillor, because she’s a waste of money, her fellow councilors explained…oh right.
I am sorry for any and all confusion caused to Dick, Paula and you ofcourse Brian.
Happy:D
Also, Dick Stiff’s devotion to Suffolk and Ipswich was very nice too, for the CEO of Angus council.
Och Heedtracker, yirran affie man, iye?
8=)
@Bob Mack
@Jlt – The claim of Right was also signed in 1989
Yep! We picked up on that one too …but the one that matters most is the Act of 1689, since it happened before the Act of Union of 1707.
No matter how much Unionists want to debate ‘Scottish sovereignty’, it was decided 18 years earlier than before the Act of Union. It could even be said that the Declaration of Arborath in 1320, in its own way, also highlights the fact that people of Scotland are sovereign (and were therefore, not bound to English rule).
But, yep …I agree with Robert over the 1689 Claim of Right. But hey! It’s good to know that it has been backed up with a modern one also (your 1989 Act) LOL!
Hi JLT.
I’m going to paste here (in italics), a comment I made last week to no response.
Hi Socrates MacSporran (and others).
You beat me to it, re: what will be brought up at the Supreme Court.
Will Scotland’s Lord Advocate, James Wolffe, in pointing out that ALL local authority areas in Scotland voted REMAIN, with an overall majority of 62%, cite the ‘Declaration of the Clergy’. An Act which was passed during Robert Bruce’s first parliament, which was held at St Andrews in March 1309?
I quote from Wull’s comment on WOS, on 4th November, 2016.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/rics-rolling/#comment-2199373
“In the 1309 Declaration the ‘Plebs’, as Rock rightly calls them (and us), are explicitly mentioned. Not once, in fact, but twice.
In both cases they appear in the phrase ‘Populus et Plebs’. At that time, the connotations of the Latin word ‘populus’ was at best ambiguous, if not downright aristocractic. It usually referred not to ‘the people as a whole’ but, rather, specifically, or even exclusively to the upper echelons of society.
Basically, it referred to the aristocracy (both major and minor), including the knights. Instead of meaning ‘everyone’ (as ‘people’ now does), in those days ‘Populus’ usually meant only ‘the people who matter’, the elite.
The addition of ‘et Plebs’ (‘and the common people’)to the term ‘Populus’ in the 1309 parliamentary text is therefore highly significant. It made sure that NO ONE could harbour the false assumption that the 1309 Declaration was talking ONLY about the elite. Instead, without excluding the elite, it talks about them together with all the rest of the population – explicitly, the ‘Plebs’. And these ‘Plebs’ would be hugely more numerous than the ‘Populus’.”
And furthermore,
“And what does the 1309 Declaration actually say about the ‘Populus et Plebs’ – i.e. the whole population – of Scotland?
To answer this question we have to bear in mind the purpose of the 1309 text: it was published as a justification of the legitimacy of the Bruce monarchy. It sought not only to affirm but also to demonstrate that Robert Bruce was the legitimate king of Scotland and ruler of the Scots.
In doing so it used various arguments, but (in my opinion) the key one around which all the others were organised was this: that Robert Bruce was the Scots’ legitimate king and ruler for the simple reason that the ‘Populus et Plebs’ of Scotland believed and said that he was, and continued to do so.
The Scots had identified and recognised him as their ruler, and it was thus that he was entitled and able to govern them. They had freely consented to his rule; therefore, on that account, his rule was legitimate. The term ‘sovereignty of the people’ is not used in the 1309 text – it was coined in a later era – but here, in essence, is the very same idea: a rose by any other name is still a rose.
It was an idea, moreover, that had not only been expressed (for instance in the 1309 Declaration), but had already been acted upon. In particular, when the Scots had made Bruce their king. At that point, so the Declaration claims, the Populus et Plebs of Scotland were exercising their right and ability to appoint their own rulers.”
These are quotes from a more expansive comment that Wull posted. It could be worth a read, to refresh memories. (Link above.)
Will the Lord Advocate also cite The Declaration Of Arbroath of 1320, which confirmed the sovereignty of the people of Scotland, defined in the 1309 act?
Will he cite the Act Of Union of 1707, which guaranteed Scots Law in perpetuity, which includes the sovereignty of the people of Scotland?
Will he cite MacCormick v Lord Advocate (1953), in which it is reported,
“…and brings us to Lord Cooper’s point of Law in 1953 that Scots Law and constitutional practice does not recognise the concept of the ‘crown in parliament’ being sovereign as this is a singularly English legal and constitutional concept, a legal point conceded on the UK Parliament’s behalf by the Lord Advocate”,
and
“Who actually exercises control of the ‘considered will of the people of Scotland’ in the UK Parliament, Lord Cooper suggested, was purely theoretical and unlikely to be tested within the UK wide party system then in place (1953) across the UK, as any Scottish representation was beholden to their main UK party’s manifesto.”
See:
http://tarffadvertiser.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-lady-with-gioconda-smile.html
We, the people of Scotland, voted to remain in the European Union. FACT. We have sent an OVERWHELMING majority of MP’s to represent our “considered will” in the UK parliament. That majority of MP’s is NOT “beholden to their main UK party’s manifesto” – they are only answerable to the people of Scotland.
As has been typed more than once in the btl comments on WOS, “We live in interesting times…”
Now add to that the various “Claims of Rights” and where does that leave us? Me? I believe we have right on our side. Who will go against it – and what will be the result?
Still laughing. The Rev put up a picture of historywoman Jill Stephenson on his twitter feed. My grandaughter ( 7) asked if it was Sloth Fratelli from the Goonies.
No says I ,it is Jill fae the Yoonies.
@BDTT
Soon as it became clear the challenge basis was articles of the Treaty of Union I had a feeling there was a potential for this to get really loud, really quick.
The more we pick up on the issue, the more convinced I become. 😉
The Scottish MP with the highest expense claims for 2015/16 at £210,224.54 was one Alistair Carmichael. Now you might think that would be down to travel costs but no not really.
His expense claim for Staff was also the highest at £138,096.02, the second highest claim for staff was David Mundell at £134,161.21, Mundell also had the 4th highest claim overall at £196,977.28
What was I reading about the SNP expenses scandal again?
Lying bastards exposed again.
Hi Macart.
I believe we are reading from the same page, in the same book.
@silver19
From that Grun article:
“The IWGB has hired the constitutional lawyer Aidan O’Neill QC, who has challenged the UK government’s claim that it has the prerogative to trigger article 50 without a parliamentary vote in his submission.”
No better man. Ironic I mentioned him yesterday, so that’s where he’s been hiding. Interesting that Aileen McHarg apparently disagrees with him.
Apart from that motion S4M-01822, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the claim of right passed in Holyrood 26th Jan 2012, For 102, Against 14, Abstentions 0.
Debate: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2012-01-26.38.0#g38.30
Decision at bottom of: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2012-01-26.40.0
Sort of O/T
But following on what others have been commenting regarding Article 50’s revocability question being submitted to the European Court of Justice, the following link has the text below:
https://aberdeenunilaw.wordpress.com/2016/11/04/yeah-but-no-but-why-the-high-court-was-right-and-wrong-in-the-brexit-case/>
Extract from the above link.
Prof Steve Peers argues, persuasively it is submitted, that the question of revocability of Article 50 is not settled. Indeed, contrary to the High Court’s ruling and to my own reasoning above, Lord Kerr, the author of Article 50, argues that unilateral revocation of notice is possible. Where there is a question as to the interpretation of EU law, Article 267 TFEU requires a supreme court of a Member State (and the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom still plays that role) to seek interpretative guidance from the Court of Justice of the European Union. If the Supreme Court fails to refer the question, the United Kingdom could be liable to damages under the Kobler doctrine.
Prof Steve Peers Argues:
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/brexit-can-ecj-get-involved.html
Lord Kerr was interviewed by some nation’s broadcaster:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37852628
The Kobler doctrine:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPdf.jsf?text=&docid=48649&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=1260460
Consitutional blogs on the Internet are not unanimously agreed that a question of revocability would or should be submitted to the ECJ, but just imagine the squeeling from some quarters if it was.
So glad am I that Marky Booth has gone to the time and effort to excel-ise those figures of pre & post SNP majority. It is something I was planning to do myself.
Particularly am I proud the see how little Marion Fellows claims when compared to her predecessor, Frank B Roy. A cost saving of £65,198.71p for the taxpayer against Mr F.B.Roy’s £180k expenses yearly.
I had the pleasure of being “stranded” at Motherwell Station by Scotrail / Abelio with Marion and her husband back in July. Lovely people, they were kind enough to drop me off at the Girdwoods pub on their way back to Wishaw after Scotrail told us to wait in the next train rather than arrange transport as we were initially told.
O/T, but oil related. I see from oil and gas people that Shell have this year been large quantities of Brent crude mix, storing it in VLCC tankers floating ariund yhe North Sea at present. They are now trying to offload it to Market.
Considering Shell own some 25% of the feedstock coming through the Forties it smells to me like insider trading if some sort. Shell purchasing the Crude meant that the market price would be artifically high to anyone else buying it. Now the price has risen they are trying to offload it.
If they bought at $35 per barrel, the current price coupled with the Brexit “bonus” means that in GBP at leaSt they stand to make around 30% on the price paid coupled with a 15-20% Brexit boost to their profits in GBP.
http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/11547/shell-snaps-up-large-volumes-of-north-sea-oil/
@Brian Doonthetoon
Hi matey! How you doing? Hope all is well.
As to your wee question…
James Wolffe’s name also came up during our discussions. The conclusion that we came to was that Wolffe will use the 1689 Act of Right since the argument that Holyrood is taking to Westminster is that, Scots Law is not governed by English Law, and therefore, England is not taking into consideration the ‘constitutional’ rights of the Scottish people …in this case, the sovereignty of the Scottish people. We voted to ‘Remain’, therefore, our rights potentially, are being ignored not only by Government, but also by Westminster. In there lies the underlying threat of Constitutional Crisis. What happens if the will of the Scottish people ends up being ignored, or worse still, Scotland ends up using ‘veto’s against English wishes in their own place of sovereignty ie Westminster.
I believe Wolffe intends to use the basis of Scots Law to make Holyrood’s case. If it is the issue of sovereignty, then the 1689 Act of Right basically covers it.
The line in your post that mentions ‘Will he cite the Act Of Union of 1707, which guaranteed Scots Law in perpetuity, which includes the sovereignty of the people of Scotland?’ seems to be an indication of that fact.
Personally (as did a few others on our wee ‘Yes’ page) …we seem to believe (as Robert in his post above does), that Scotland’s case could be argued from the point of the 1689 Act, and that we are sovereign and have the right to intervene on Brexit and even try to force changes on it (against English wishes). This is the fear by Leavers and Tory Brexiteers that Brexit now gets bogged down in a potential minefield of arguments within Parliament which is why Theresa never wanted to vote on it in Parliament. This is where raging and blistering arguments could kick off and words said that only damages the Union even further.
But, I suppose we won’t know any of that …until Mr Wolffe makes his actual case in London.
Just for comparison, the MP who has been all over the front pages, one Alex Salmond claimed a total of £166,737.61, £88,521.23 for which was staff and £48,470.66 for travel.
An inflated figure due to having to pay the travel costs of his essential security. Contrast and compare with Carmichael and Mundell.
Stick that on your front page Daily Mail.
Misssed out the motion as agreed to:
“Motion, as amended, agreed to,
That the Parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and declares and pledges that in all its actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount, and asserts the right of the Scottish people to make a clear, unambiguous and decisive choice on the future of Scotland.”
Interesting amendment from Labour (Ferguson): “and asserts the right of the Scottish people to make a clear, unambiguous and decisive choice on the future of Scotland”.
Marky Booth’s excellent spreadsheet should be published in the “independence supporting” The National tomorrow, with headline news of how SNP MPs are providing far better value for money than the unionists they replaced.
What else is the point of having an “independence supporting” newspaper?
Heedtracker 5.45pm
My sentiment entirely! Yet, how many times do they refer to the 1966 World Cup?
I do hope you read my post at 4.16pm this afternoon re the LACK of reporting of Andy and Jamie Murray’s triumphs by the BBC.
This was followed by my tongue-in-cheek reference at 5.18, one hour later, to the appearance of a video of Andy aged 14 as almost the sum total of the nation’s broadcaster to this momentous achievement – I was musing as to whether they had responded to my previous post!
Like you, I noted the last sentence which is why i commented that Reporting Scotland in the ‘Old Days’ did, amazingly, do what it says on the packet and actually report what was happening in Scotland – not the farcical situation we have now.
What else is the point of having an “independence supporting” newspaper?
Winding you up Rock.
Yes, Rock, you have a point.
We must ‘watch thus space’…
Or even ‘watch this space’…
JLT,
“we concluded that the ‘Claim of Right Act 1689’ was indeed the very act that stated that the people of Scotland were sovereign.”
If it did state that, it was not worth the paper it was written on as far as the “plebs”, the vast majority of Scots, were concerned.
As Bob Mack posted on a previous thread:
“When did universal suffrage come to the UK?
Prior to that nobody was allowed to express a choice. For over 300 years we had to do as we were told or suffer the
consequences financially and even militarily.”
What sort of “sovereignty” was that then?
The Scottish “plebs” have NEVER been “sovereign” in practice.
To this day, basically the only right that the “plebs” have is the right to vote.
And that right came from Westminster, long after the Treaty of Union, not from any Scottish document, nor from the rotten to the core Scottish justice system.
The non existent “sovereignty” that Robert Peffers bangs on about has not seen a single instance of being enforced or enforceable by the “plebs” in the last 710 years.
We will gain sovereignty, for the first time ever, if and when we vote for independence.
Not through documents that have not been worth the paper they were written on to the “plebs” for the last 710 years.
@JLT says: 21 November, 2016 at 7:48 pm:
“RE : Claim of Right
Absolutely agree with you, Robert. A few of us discussed this over the weekend on our local ‘Yes’ Facebook page, and we concluded that the ‘Claim of Right Act 1689’ was indeed the very act that stated that the people of Scotland were sovereign.”.
Err! Almost right, JLT but the law of Scotland changed from, “Divine Right of Kings”, to The people being sovereign, (and note it was all the people of Scotland and not just the Scots born people of Scotland), in 1320 when the then international authority, the head of all Christendom, (nae sectaranism back then), The Pope in Rome as Gods representative, accepted the Declaration of Arbroath.
Note also. The English monarch had egged on the Pope to excommunicate the Bruce for killing the Comyn on the sanctified alter steps but the Englander had then fallen out with the Pope by appointing himself as Head of the Church of England.
As Divine right meant all the monarch’s possessions, (including his subject), were excommunicated Scotland was not part of Christendom.
When the Pope accepted the Declaration only one part was a declaration of Scottish independence. The following bit is the bit that allowed the Pontiff to legally declare that Scotland was not damned and the excommunication was lifted. And that was the will of God, (allegedly).
Specifically this bit:-
That is the declaration that the Monarchy in Scotland is not sovereign but is the Protector of the people’s sovereignty and the people are sovereign because they have the right to, “Drive out”, a monarch who does not do as the people demand.
If the Monarch was sovereign then no one but God could depose him.
So Scotland changed fron Divine Right of Kings and the Pope accepted, (on God’s behalf), that the |People of Scotland had Divine Right i.e, we are legally God’s chosen people.
Now, even today, Scots government can only be done by those specifically sanctioned to do so by the sovereign people of Scotland.
No one has ever specifically asked the Scots to hand over their sovereignty and English law states that a sovereign, by just being sovereign, cannot give away the kingdom’s sovereignty. They can only abdicate it.
However, the English in the Glorious Revolution established a precedent in law that the English sovereign, had to remain sovereign but must legally delegate their sovereign powers to Westminster. But that only applied to England, Wales and Ireland as that was the Kingdom of England in 1688. Making that Kingdom a Constitutional Monarchy but Scotland had been under the people’s sovereignty since 1320.
The governments of Scotland are thus being voted for by the sovereign people to exercise the people’s sovereignty but the three country Constitutional Monarchy of the English Kingdom are exercising their monarch’s sovereignty.
Hence the claim of right by the people of Scotland.
So summing up. Auld Lizzie is legally sovereign, In the English kingdom, but has legally had to delegate her English sovereign powers to the MPs elected by the people of England. (the Kingdom), to use her sovereignty.
The MPs elected from The Kingdom of Scotland are delegated by the sovereign people of Scotland to exercise their sovereignty but the big difference is that at no time have the sovereign people of Scotland ever given up, (abdicated, their sovereignty to anyone.
When there was no crowned monarch in Scotland those running the Kingdom were delegated to do so by the sovereign people they themselves were not sovereign.
There is no way that any court can legally rule that the people of Scotland have ever made anyone sovereign.
Only given them permission to run the government on their behalf. If you like when there was no monarch those who ran Scotland were the protectors of the people’s sovereignty and thus had no collective sovereignty of their own to give away.
Which also explains away the several Claim or Right demands. The very fact they were made means the people had not given away their sovereignty and it does not matter that Westminster ignored the claim. The fact that the claim was made is enough to show they had not given away their sovereign powers. Under English law they cannot give it away anyway.
Rock, The only reason that we, The Scots, have not exercised our Sovereignty over the years since 1707 is that we have been kept in a state of ignorance, by “the UK establishment”.
Would you dispute that?
If you do, what is your remedy to the situation of “the considered will of the Scottish people” being ignored?
Meg merrilees says:
21 November, 2016 at 9:26 pm
Heedtracker 5.45pm
I did Meg! Great find. Its also the camera angle that gets on my tits. Why is the dude talking down at us viewers like that? Short camera man or woman maybe.
Also, tennis is a fantastic sport that has been on the decline in Scotland, at club level. Park tennis courts have gone all across the country and most the clubs aren’t that great. They tend to be middle class ghettos in Scotland, with all that petty bourgeois dreariness.
Judy Murray in particular’s doing so much to turn the tide in what is a great summer sport, that doesnt cost much at all to play. Once you get into it, its like boxing, its so tough and competitive.
All of which makes opposition to their sport centre plans rather depressing. Aging wealthy guys, with big bellies, say NO.
Sound familiar:D
Heedtracker @ 7.59
The Scottish National tennis centre is located 3 miles from PoK on the campus of the University of Stirling and is fully accessible by public transport which the PoK is not. Access for users and workers would be by car. Since the overarching ethos of the proposed centre is to make tennis available to disadvantaged children it seems odd to site it in fields that are only accessible by car.
Alternative sites have been offered but turned down. Some were offered for free because they were already owned by the Council.
Tennis in Scotland is very much on the up. Over the past 10 years or so the Scottish Government via Sports Scotland has put £10.8 million into the sport. Thus has meant the upgrading and building the equivalent of 100 new courts. In addition 4 new indoor tennis centres are part of that package.
In recent years participation in Tennis has increased by 45% and at junior competitive level it has increased by a factor of 3. This has been achieved by the hard work both voluntary and paid by a lot of people yet you rarely if ever hear Ms Murray acknowledge this work.
Objections to development on this site goes back 30 years and has been continuously and coherently argued over that time.
This is the wrong site for the tennis centre especially one that aims to make tennis available to a wider group but given that access will require a car it merely serves to reinforce the perception of the sport as an elitist one.
As I have said building more modest Murray Tennis centres in communities around Scotland making it more accessible for more people would be a more fitting way to mark the Murray’s achievements.
Brian Doonthetoon @8.40
Brian I am minded that the good people of Morningside are instructing their Labour MP to vote against Article 50 , i.e. against UK Party lines.
Ian Murray is being asked instructed by the people he represents at Westminster to tell them to take a jump. The Edinburghers are clearly exercising their Scottish Sovereignty.
12 days to go – pray TM does not back down. I hope they might just be arrogant enough to push through with this.
Also, I truly believe that the Scottish lawyers who were involved in creating the Treaty of Union 300 years ago would never have left the future of an independent Scotland unprotected and whilst some of the finest legal brains of the day must have been involved on both sides, I’m sure our Scots ancestors (would) have outmanoeuvred the opposition, just like a some well-kent tennis players of recent days!!
@Rock,
There are dozens of medieval laws that still apply today. The reason is that like the question of Sovereignty, they have never been tested.
You are for example banned from entering the Commons wearing armour ,and all dead whales washed up on the beach are crown property.
OT,
What’s the use of the national, traveling home tonight by train, which was 3 min late, Sturgeon must condemn, I opened my paper, and the guy across from me made a noise like fffftt, I put down the paper and he was looking straight at me, and took out a poppy and put it on! I wasn’t going to bother, but took out one from my pocket and put it threw the zipper, then asked him what unit he was from, he said whit, I said regiment? He said I wasn’t in the forces, I said I was, I asked him did he ever think about serving his country. He looked away.
I went back to reading the national, I left it on the seat for him to read.
Yooons are funny 🙂
@ Bob Mack and Robert Peffers
The export issue is worth pursuing and I expect our MPs are on the case. It’s not the economics that are the main point. It’s the propaganda which will be relentlessly broadcast to persuade us that we can’t survive without handouts. Plus the argument for staying in the Single Market.
I would understand the “pooling and sharing” claim if that was, in fact, what was happening. But we know that it isn’t. The vast benefit of billions poured into London and the South East, disguised as “UK infrastructure projects” which have no Barnett consequentials, has created a monster economy which is swallowing up resources. Without billions of taxpayer bailouts the Financial Sector was bankrupt.
We need to demonstrate the fallacy of the “too poor” argument. Maybe Marky Booth could get a PhD out of it!
Bob Mack: “No says I, it’s Jill fae the Yoonies.”
🙂
Jill fae the uni Yoonies.
As I have said building more modest Murray Tennis centres in communities around Scotland making it more accessible for more people would be a more fitting way to mark the Murray’s achievements.”
I know Legerwood, you said all of this before. Its still three fields up the M90 though. THere’s big new housing estates just down from this site, yet no one was bothered. Also, this is not about making “a more fitting way to mark the Murray’s achievements” is it.
Murray’s achievements are his wins. This all comes down to keeping Scotland down, simples. Anywhere else, England, anywhere, and it would celebrated. Not for Scotland though, dysfunctional, know your place, I know best so shut it…that Scotland.
Its like how that one Aberdeen councilor popped up out of the blue and blocked Trump at Balmedie. UKOK hackdom lauds him a hero, locally his block was not exactly considered a triumph.
Sports wise, Scotland is run by some real idiots. Just look at the SFA and their Hampden park.
Hope that’s not too obsequious or forelock tugging for you.
I am constantly enproudened (if that’s a word) by the standard of comment btl on WOS.
Stands us Scots in a good place for future arguments…
Re Robert Peppers
If you can tell me when the SNP take the media to task I can’t find it. All I see is the usual BBC bad mouthing them and a whimper in a fight back. Spoke to my local MSP about getting caught out by the media and to appoint a Press Officer to fight the media onslaught.
Yes SNP are bad at handling the media as they get slammed from all sides.
Paid up member of the SNP and I know they are the best Government we have ever had but they are useless in dealing with a biased media.
Personally I would make Tommy Shepherd Chief Press officer and let him deal with all media. Got to fight back and as for polls I don’t trust them after the fiasco in recent events? I’m no Yoon but sick to death of negative press and no one in the SNP calling out the lies @!
@Robert Peffers
Brilliant!
Your post is well explained. I cannot fault it! Certainly knew the arguments from the Glorious Revolution, but your extra input revolving around the Papacy highlights the argument further.
I suppose there is further argument between the two nations over the religious theology revolving around the ‘Divine right of Kings’ since Presbyterianism viewed authority was derived from the ‘word’ of the Bible, while Episcopalianism saw authority lay in the hands of monarchs through God’s judgement. Certainly, prior to 1689, there lay a fundamental difference between the nations over the issue of sovereignty through the eyes of religious ideology. For both nations, the Glorious Revolution either changed all that (removing the idea of ‘Divine Right’ – England), or reinforced the concept of sovereignty (Scotland).
But a great post, Robert. Copied and pasted for future conversations. Thanks for that!
Cheers again.
Heedtracker@9.44
Why are you dragging me into this argument with Legerwood about the Murray tennis centre.
Please Desist!
Re the Claim of Right :
In a nutshell, Scotland’s motto sums it up:
“Nemo me impune lacessit”
Oops! Also meant to point out that, (collectively) i.e. a recognizable democratic majority, of the Sovereign people of Scotland can legally, under Scots law, depose Auld Lizzie as the Protector of their Sovereignty as she has no sovereignty under independent Scots law and seems tae be inclined tae purr ae puckle at being left in charge o protectin the Union.
Which also means we legally have the Right to appoint, Not a Queen or King of Scotland in Auld Lizzie’s stead, but a new Queen or King of Scots to protect our sovereignty.
Noo then! Wha div ye aa fancy fir the joab?
Will it be Alex King o Scots or Nicola Queen o Scots?
Ony ane want tae open a book oan it?
Bob Mack @9.58
Did you know that it is illegal to play the bagpipes within a mile of the Houses of parliament as they are an instrument of war…
Special permission had to be sought for the Queen Mother’s funeral ( from whom, I wonder, the Queen?)
Andrew McLean @10.02 Brilliant story!
How About Queen Winnie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_Ewing
Meg merrilees says:
21 November, 2016 at 10:11 pm
Heedtracker@9.44
Why are you dragging me into this argument with Legerwood about the Murray tennis centre.
Im nbt!
@Capella
Re The propaganda. Of course it is not just the MSM that are at it. Lots of big business use it too. Here’s a topical example from the Scottish Whisky Association.
October 2015 press release:
So what would happen if the British people vote to leave the EU in the referendum when it comes?
Scotch Whisky would no longer be covered by the EU’s FTAs. We might see tariffs going up and it would certainly be unclear as to whether Scotch Whisky could benefit from other regulatory improvements set out in FTA’s.
We would need to protect the GI at national level instead of European level and it would no longer be clear whether other countries had to protect the GI as required by the EU’s FTAs.
In exporting to the single market, even if tariffs were zero, we would face additional paperwork and other formalities at the border that would increase costs and complexity.
It is also hard to see what the real advantage of being out would be. There are various models for the UK outside the EU but none of them seem very satisfactory.
http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/news-publications/blog/does-scotch-whisky-need-the-eu/#.WDNwTeaLREY
Same guy, David Frost Chief Executive of SWA in August 2016:
We can be confident certain things will not change, whatever the future arrangements:
Scotch Whisky will not face a tariff on exports to the EU. 0% is the current EU tariff and World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules mean it won’t change.
In many markets Scotch will also continue to benefit from existing zero tariffs, for example in the US, Canada, and Mexico, as these are offered to all countries already. In many other markets that already demand high tariffs, for example India, Brexit will not make the situation any worse.
We will be able to protect Scotch Whisky across the EU and globally to the extent we can now, although the precise mechanisms for some markets will have to change, and we will have to put other measures in place to ensure continuity.
http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/news-publications/news/brexit-what-now-for-scotch-whisky/#.WDNuzuaLREY
The importance of being a master bullshitter is a prerequisite to becoming a Chief Executive at any UK national Organisation. The above proves it.
I’d love to have the Murray Tennis Centre in Aberdeenshire. Not on a SSSI obviously, but somewhere accessible. Bus services can be routed when the Centre is opened – by Nicola.
BTW Judy Murray does talk about community based tennis – on her own twitter feed. Here’s a link to a talk she gave on that subject:
https://twitter.com/TEDxGlasgow/status/799957996784807936
@ Meg Merrilees
Are Ian Murray’s constituents really “instructing” him to vote against triggering Article 50?
I read a piece in The National, in which the journalist walked down Morningside Road, stopped a handful of people, and asked them what Murray should do (the answers were mixed, but mostly “vote against” – one respondent lived in another constituency).
Is there some other reporting of a petition or similar, actually addressed to him?
If Scotland were the top-ranked cricket team in the world, would that make cricket interesting?
No.
Capella says:
21 November, 2016 at 10:25 pm
I’d love to have the Murray Tennis Centre in Aberdeenshire.
A lot of the blockers do not want it in Scotland at all. Most odd. A lot of blocking also comes from other sports organisations in Scotland, each competing for all sorts of things.
The people I trust with the Murray plans are the Murrays themselves. And its certainly not some kind of monument to Andy. He’s hardly the kind of super star that farts about in Monaco.
This morn BBC r4 Today show sports news twerp says, “and is Murray up there with the greatest British stars like Ian Botham.” lol.
@ Thepnr
David George Hamilton Frost CMG is no longer head of the Scotch (sic) Whisky Association. He has resigned from Nicola’s Council of Avisers on EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frost_(British_diplomat)
He is now an adviser to Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary. As a career diplomat, he obviously prefers the louche environs of the Foreign Office.
Mind you, SWA is also a truly international organisation:
“SWA chairman Pierre Pringuet, who is vice-president of Pernod Ricard, said: “David has successfully modernised the association during a challenging time for the industry both economically and politically.
But David’s opinions change according to circumstances. He cuts his cloth. He is a reed in the wind.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37765156
Watching BBC tonight and I notice andy Murray is always the boy from Dunblane and no reference to Scotland or Scottish
Is this just me???
He is now an adviser to Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary. As a career diplomat, he obviously prefers the louche environs of the Foreign Office.”
The BojO effect has had a different impact in the EU, post Leave win. FT is extremely anti Leave/Brexit though, so be a lert readers.
“Support for EU rises since Brexit vote, survey shows
Popularity of union confounds anti-Brussels sentiment — even in Britain
The result could encourage Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, and other EU leaders who are trying to rebuild public confidence in the union, though it is unlikely to divert Theresa May, the British prime minister, and the country’s Brexit camp from leaving.
“The looming Brexit seems to be the best advertisement for the EU so far,” said Aart De Geus, chairman of the Bertelsmann Foundation, a German think-tank, which carried out the survey.
Across the EU as a whole, 62 per cent of those polled would vote to stay in the EU compared with 57 per cent in March, according to Bertelsmann’s polling which covered nearly 15,000 respondents. The poll was conducted in August 2016 a few weeks after the British referendum.
In Britain, support rose to 56 per cent after the Brexit vote, compared to 49 per cent before. Approval rates fell in Spain to 68 per cent, but rose in the other four big continental member states – Germany, France, Italy and Poland. “
Brian Doonthetoon,
“Rock, The only reason that we, The Scots, have not exercised our Sovereignty over the years since 1707 is that we have been kept in a state of ignorance, by “the UK establishment”.
Would you dispute that?”
Yes, I dispute that. The people are not stupid. They haven’t exercised “sovereignty” because they do not have it. They knew about the “parcel of rogues” 300 years ago.
Real “Sovereignty”, not “sovereignty” not worth the paper it was written on.
“If you do, what is your remedy to the situation of “the considered will of the Scottish people” being ignored?”
Voting by a majority for independence with a written, democratic constitution giving equal rights to all is the only way the “plebs” of Scotland will ever get “sovereignty”.
The right to vote, given to them by Westminster, is basically the only right they have.
The SNP was denied a majority in the Scottish parliament by the likes of The National and The Greens.
Only when the SNP minority government is able to deliver another referendum, the “plebs” will have another chance to decide if they want to vote for real “sovereignty” or pretendy “sovereignty” as a colony of England.
If a “foreigner” asks Andy Murray to show his “sovereign” Scottish passport, what answer will he give?
BDTT @ 10.19
I’d second that. Winnie Ewing winning Hamilton in 1967 is the reason I became a supporter of independence.
I found out then, from the DR ironically, that the SNP believed “Scotland is a country so it should be independent”.
She was also a terrific ambassador for Scotland in Europe, being known as Madame Ecosse.
A wonderful piece of research by Marky Booth.
Well Done to Marky and the Rev for this precious silver bullet.
Forgive my innocent understanding of Truth and Justice, but are we collectively able to demand an apology, correction,
or front page retraction, with the Charts, on the front page of the Daily Liars?
Would IPSO be able to say that printing completely fabricated and derogatory claims repeatedly will result in massive fines?
If this was issued to the BBC officially by the Scottish Government, with an intent to sue them if they ever claim otherwise?
We really, really need this on Billboards across the country. The entire UK Media do not want to know any facts
that does not strengthen the English hand in Scotland’s pocket, and the one around our throat.
@ Heedtracker – I’ve heard the indignant response from people in Stirling “Who do they think they are?!”
Well they think they are the Murrays, World No 1 tennis aces, Olympic Champions, Davis Cup winners, Wimbledon champs etc etc. Probably the greatest athletes Scotland has ever produced. Mostly, it’s thanks to the coaching and encouragement of Judy Murray.
But it seems to me to be the Scottish cringe “Ah kent his faither”.
I also wonder what influence the ultra Unionist Labour Council plays in granting planning permission – the same Council which arranged for British Armed Services Day to coincide with the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn in 2014.
But they would be welcome in Aberdeenshire. Just not on a SSSI!
@Capella
Hahaha I just knew he was a bit of an arse. So off he swans to take up a new role for Boris Johnson. Bit of a joke eh!
These people never seem to fall on their arse, one door closes and another one opens. It’s pathetic in the extreme.
The Scottish people need to slam the door in these leeches once and for all. Independence alone won’t do that but will take us part the way there.
Ordinary people are robbed left, right and centre. Not just by an elite but anyone of their associates who can manage to jump aboard the gravy train. Well I for one am sick of it and I wish for the time of pure greed to come to an end.
Working for Boris Johnson FFS, one halfwit working for another. Who is paying his wages. YOU and I the taxpayer, the ordinary worker are paying for what? Bloodsuckers that Scotland can do without.
Guess what?
David Frost also went to a fee paying school before studying at Oxford. The dots are being joined and it stinks to high heaven.
Robert Peffers,
“Oops! Also meant to point out that, (collectively) i.e. a recognizable democratic majority, of the Sovereign people of Scotland can legally, under Scots law, depose Auld Lizzie as the Protector of their Sovereignty”
I, a “sovereign” Scot, want to depose “Auld Lizzie”.
How do I start the process?
Gosh! bet welcher Macternan predicts is on BBC Newsnight right the noo. He’s predicting like a champ too, no tie, open shirt welching too.
Another day in MSMland.
http://archive.is/U4w6h
Maybe not just the tabloids we should be hiding behind the breakfast cereals1
WOS archive links for December 2011 now over in Paula’s hoose (O/T).
Capella says:
21 November, 2016 at 10:55 pm
@ Heedtracker – I’ve heard the indignant response from people in Stirling “Who do they think they are?!”
No doubt. The English call it tall poppy syndrome don’t they. There is a lot of localised Green blockers too but its blocking on all development Scottish Green style. Its not a nuke power station or toxic waste disposal site, is it.
Its just such a wonderful opportunity for Scottish sport. To see it kicked away on the basis of nimbyist and too good for you Scotland rubbish, really sticks in this vile separatists craw.
Some terrific letters at the end of my Laugh at JK Day. They alone are worth the read. More please.
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-bfH
“Trump’s victory has created yet another variable in the game of Brexit poker: Many on the Continent are concerned that Britain could increasingly turn to the US instead of leaving their economy as open as possible to Europe.”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-negotiations-face-new-hurdle-after-trump-election-a-1122025.html
What an utterly horrendous thought! I’m a Scot, get me out of here!
@Legerwood says: 21 November, 2016 at 9:47 pm
“Since the overarching ethos of the proposed centre is to make tennis available to disadvantaged children it seems odd to site it in fields that are only accessible by car.”
Spurious argument, Legerwood, They have machines now that can build new roads in a matter of days.
When I bought my cottage there were several farmed fields on all sides of us on the outskirts of Kelty.
I’m now living with many houses and roads between my back boundary fence all the way up to village’s Mains Street.
Furthermore, when I moved to Kelty there was no M90 to the West of the village and I live on what once, “The Great North Road”, and thus the main drag all the way to John o Groats in the North from London in the South.
In any case my experience of how children from deprived areas get access to most facilities is usually in minibuses of between 12 and 22 seats and they go with supervisory volunteers.
Rock: “The right to vote, given to them by Westminster, is basically the only right they have.”
You have a tendency of getting carried away by certitude. The English Supreme Court decided Brexit negotiations had to include Scotland. Can you point up the clause that the judges couldn’t get around? Many thanks.
PS: Murray always answers ‘Scottish’.
Bet welcher Macternan predicts waffles for the right, shows off his American hols tan on BBC Newsnight and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38056827
Drain ‘swamp’ of bad MPs, urges UKIP’s biggest backer
6 hours ago
UKIP’s biggest backer has suggested putting up independent candidates against “bad” MPs in an effort to “drain the swamp” of UK politics.
Arron Banks also said the House of Commons could be cut to 300 members and the House of Lords be replaced by a 100-member “senate”.
It worked in the US and non elitist outsider Trump triumph.
Adrian O’Neil was against Independence. He said the Indy Ref was unlawful.
Arron Banks is laundering tax evaded money through his complex of offshore accounts. Wiki Leaks. Including Public money from the EU, Illegally funding UKIP.
Marky Booth
Well done.
Your effort inspires me to try harder
Does anyone know if the BBC inScotland covered the SNP expense stories? Or if they included them in the News Review prior to Marky Banks?
O/T
The US Media are labeling Trump DOJ Jeff Sessions as a racist,
Like our media they do not want to scratch the surface
The media wants you to think Jeff Sessions is some sort of Alabamian unrepentant racist, but in fact Jeff Sessions has a long history of fighting segregation in Alabama, seeking the death penalty for KKK members, and marching with civil rights leaders to commemorate and honor the 50th anniversary of the march at Selma.
Senator Sessions would have won re-election handily in Alabama had he refused. But he went. He supported it. At the time he noted the injustice that had been done.
Senator Sessions also voted for the extension of the Civil Rights Act.
Sounds like just the sort of guy you would want in charge of law and order
Written evidence submitted by Aidan O’Neill to the Scottish Affairs Committee, some time before 4th May 2012
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmscotaf/1608/1608we16.htm
the interesting part is the second half about EU citizenship and the CJEU – seems possible he could be in work for a long time. David Edwards echoed his argument later:
http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/852/David-Edward-Scotland-and-the-European-Union.aspx
Of interest currently is this:
“19. On those assumptions, my opinion is that, in accordance with their obligations of good faith, sincere cooperation and solidarity, the EU institutions and all the Member States (including the UK as existing), would be obliged to enter into negotiations, before separation took effect, to determine the future relationship within the EU of the separate parts of the former UK and the other Member States.”
so it seems all that would be needed is for Indy Ref 2 to be some time even shortly, before Brexit, in his opinion.
@ Thepnr – if only my parents had sent me to Eton. Why didn’t they send me to Eton!
Here’s a favourite clip – the Salt March, or how to do civil disobedience and bring down an empire – nonviolently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3uk95VGes
@ Rock – “I, a “sovereign” Scot, want to depose “Auld Lizzie”.
How do I start the process?”
Join a Republican Party and argue your case.
@Capella says: 21 November, 2016 at 10:02 pm:
“The export issue is worth pursuing and I expect our MPs are on the case. It’s not the economics that are the main point. It’s the propaganda which will be relentlessly broadcast to persuade us that we can’t survive without handouts.”
Many of we old hands knew this Too wee, too poor and too bloody stupid to be utter rubbish as far back as the 1950s.
Thing is that we could not obtain any real evidence back then as there was no ONS or even GERS figures to give us a starting point to disprove. Just the same endless propaganda claims still being used today.
Then in around 1990 or 2000 a forensic Account named Niall Aslem did a really great number on the figures. If memory serves the first one was titled, “The Great Lie”, or, “The Great Deception”, or something like that, and ….
It got nowhere very much as it was suppressed and where it was not suppressed it was buried and disguised in such as the Net by many other similar titles suddenly appearing from nowhere. Niall tried several title changes and all got the same treatment.
Niall has rewritten it several times since and you can read his almost identical latest efforts as a pdf here :-
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/download/The_Great_Obfuscation.pdf
It will really open your eyes.
Now here’s a wee challenge for you – Type, “The Great Obfuscation”, (without the quotes), into your browser’s bar and note what returns you get.
You will see that I kid you not about how the Establishment bury things they do not want you to know.
The problem now as then is about getting the information – it is getting the information out to the general public.
@Capella
Think it’s time I watched that whole film Ghandi again.
@ Robert Peffers – I Googled “The Great Obfuscation” and the Siol nan Gaidheal site came up at the top of the page. Maybe your searches have zoomed it up the algorithms.
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/obfuscation.htm
It’s hard reading because of the layout. But I will download the pdf and read at leisure. Thanks.
@ Thepnr – Ghandi is one of my favourites. 🙂
Thought Lex Rex might interest some whilst following the complexities of the Supreme Pandora’s Box Case over Brexit.
Lex, Rex by Rev Samuel Rutherford
Bob,
Niall Aslen after prolonged illness, sadly passed away last year. He was a great patriot and began his expose when a member of Cawin’ Thigither, a private on line think tank. He was also very active for Independence First and handled the finances for that organisation.
I had enormous respect for him both as a man and professionally.
A big loss to the movement.
Regrettably, we were in New Zealand at the time of his passing and did not hear about it until some time later.
Re Scottish exports.
Remember reading a couple of weeks ago of export figures of whisky for the last financial year.
Scotland £500,000
England £3,000,400,000
or figures thereabouts. Anybody recall?
If so, that’s what the sleekit ba****ds have been doing all this time with our money, mass building of distilleries.
#yesindyref2 @ 11:53pm
Have you seen this article?
It is by David M Walker who was Regius Professor of Law in the University of Glasgow from 1958-1990
It is from the 18th June 2007
http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-6/1004238.aspx
“The Union and the law
On the 300th anniversary of the 1707 Union, an argument that its legal basis is often misunderstood and that its reconsideration would be far from simple”
We will soon find out..
#Sandy @ 12:59 am
“or figures thereabouts. Anybody recall?”
No..
But, you might want to know (just to confuse matters)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37379947
“Scotch whisky exports ‘up for first time in three years'”
and that buried right at the very bottom of the article it says
“These figures do not include UK sales, which account for roughly 7% of Scotch whisky production.”
I occasionally look at a blog called Euromyths – https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/ . It publishes articles in response to the more extreme MSM pronouncements about the EU and seeks to dispel many of the Euromyths and confront the disinformation about the EU. It adopts a similar approach to Wings articles – forensically analytical, heavily evidence based with clear references to sources.
The Wings article above is an excellent riposte to the Scottish MSM disinformation. I think, however, that the Scottish Government / SNP should also be publishing these ripostes officially. The SNP site has some useful background papers and articles. However, an immediate official response to some of the wilder excesses of the press, along the lines of the Euromyths site, would serve to counter issues while they are current and provide a much more proactive response, badly needed, in my opinion.
We’re such a site to be in existence, I would see it as beneficial for it to be publishing (with Wings consent) the above article or a version of it, to give it wider currency.
@mr thms
Thanks for that, I’d lost it when I cleared out my bookmarks after Indy Ref 1.
See this Scotch Whisky thing I got half way through and got derailed recently by doing EU stuff, and before that a couple of time by other things. And now I’m busy again. But as far as I can tell, spirits duty is NOT charged on exports from the UK, it’s only charged on whisky (and gin) consumed in the UK. Scotland would therefore only get attributed spirits duty on spirits CONSUMED in Scotland (or bought by tourists and taken away).
Which would mean the GERS figures are approximately correct as they’re based on household consumption figures, and there IS no loss of revenue to Scotland because of being exported through the likes of Southampton. There’s a paper seems to bear this out just from figures:
http://www.parliament.scot/S4_ScotlandBillCommittee/Inquiries/Scotch_Whisky_Association.pdf
“In 2010, exports rose to £3.45 billion (at Customs valuation)”
and then
“Scotch Whisky retail sales in the UK contribute between £600m-£700m annually in UK excise duty”.
Though it doesn’t say specifically, it does imply that there is no excise duty on exports – otherwise the SWA would have wanted to point out the billions it provided on spirit duty on those exports, to show the even more massive amount it provided to the exchequer. That they didn’t does seem to mean the value is £0.
There’s an HMRC document which also implies this:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/spirits-duty
and others on the subject about deferred duty.
Spirits duty in total is a lot more than that, but that would include Gin and other spirit containing drinks. A similar ratio would apply to that – approximately 9.2% to represent consumption in Scotland, as opposed to the rest of the UK. Again for gin etc., no spirit duty would be charged on exports.
But this does need to be checked out.
Another couple of links – page 44
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557578/Disaggregated_tax_and_NICs_receipts_-_methodological_note.pdf
and page 12
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00495386.pdf
and page 10
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00493251.pdf
I’ll risk a 4th link:
http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/news-publications/news/optimistic-outlook-for-scotch-whisky-exports/#.WDOZJLnuOUM
@yesindyref2
The question though is whisky a Scottish or an English export depending on which port it sails from?
No one is arguing that there is a loss of income. Just simply, are Scottish goods exported from England classed as Scottish or English exports?
Last from me for some time. It’s probably why the SWA was against Indy. 90.8% of its sales are in the rUK, and it wants the UK Gov to reduce spirits duty. With Scotland part of the UK, it thinks the UK Gov might do that, and it has – a little – in the past, or at least not put the duty (per litre of pure alcohol) up so much. The whisky industry produces tax revenue for the UK, VAT corporation tax and jobs. So it’s an important industry for the UK. With Indy, the rUK couldn’t care less, whisky from Scotland would be an import same as vodka from Russia.
For wine for instance, wine is cheaper in France, that’s because the UK Gov charges wine duty – £4 billion of it. It’s not France or other countries get that duty, it’s the UK.
The one thing needs to be exhaustively checked and I’m too exhasuted to do it, is this: is there spirit duty on exports? I think no, it’s 0% for exports.
Now, where the export is accounted for, who knows, but that just affects balance of trade – and GDP perhaps. Not revenues attributable to Scotland.
Thepnr,
It could even be a double whammy. Whisky (or indeed anything else) exported via England could be classed both as “Scottish trade with England” and “English exports”.
Or does the accounting allow for that somehow? (The accounting seems far from transparent anyway.)
@Thepnr
Pass.
The main point of that is I’ve seen people arguing that the GERS revenues should be higher, and I’m pretty sure that’s wrong. And I’m one who would have wanted to argue that – with proof as normal 🙁
Exports for balance of trade, and GDP – don’t know. It’s not just whisky would be affected by that of course, it could even be my little exports to the likes of the EU or the US that go via an English port overland, or Stanstead (Fedex). But they are traceable via the likes of waybills and customs declarations (increasingly done online) to me here in Scotland. And spirits particularly have been customs controlled for a long time, because of that excise duty. Mine are only due VAT at 0%.
@Robert J. Sutherland
Well, there are a lot of bonded warehouses in England and bottling plants. Here’s one for example, in Middlesborough:
http://www.bartelswhisky.com/
“Bartels Whisky is a UK based and family run independent bottler. “Our team hand select only the finest, single malt whisky casks to bottle under our ‘Highland Laird‘ label.”
the problem is – why would that change when Scotland is Independent? Why would they move up here? All rUK exports of anything would be re-classed as international exports after Indy, rather than exports to the rUK, but it would still actually be an export to the rUK. Raw spirit in a cask, at 0% spirit duty, same as the now. And if Bartels then exported the bottles to the USA it would be their export, not ours.
@all
Looking back at what I’ve posted my interest was revenues and hence deficit – and GDP in Indy Ref 1 and even afterwards, and when I couldn’t find anything easily (well, quite hard in fact) I gave up.
The rUK versus international export angle is very different, I wasn’t that interested, just casually, but with the single EU market versus the rUK market argument of Unionists, it is more important now, so ignore my “negativity”.
yesindyref2 :
“Up to a point, Lord Copper.” Bartels (as in this example) would presumably be earning something from their operation, otherwise they couldn’t sustain it. But the worth they are effectively exporting is their added value only, the mark-up they make from bottling the spirit.
The value of the spirit itself, which one presumes is the greater proportion of the (untaxed) value, still has to be accounted to Scotland.
Otherwise you could have some Milo Minderbender scheme where you could circulate the stuff back and forth, apparently becoming an export at every stage. (Didn’t somebody try to VAT defraud the EU with a scheme like that not so very long ago?)
I grant you that strictly you are correct, whisky sent to Bartels in rUK would be a Scottish export to England, but it would be a foreign export just the same as if sent direct to the USA or wherever.
But that can’t be used as any kind of threat of English economic retaliation against an independent Scotland. Such a “blockade”, even if feasible (not likely if iScotland remained in the EU), would only hurt Bartels, since the bottling could always be done elsewhere. The only real loss to Scotland would be the loss of whisky consumption within England itself.
@Robert J. Sutherland
I’ll be delighted if there’s anything to cut into that 60% of exports figure, or whatever it is. What I use when it comes up is this:
“2015 total: Exports to rUK £45.884 bn, Imports from rUK £51.255 bn. (-£5.371 bn).”
https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/2016/10/06/random-facts/
and makiing the point that if the rUK stops our exports we’d stop theirs which are greater than ours. When they come back and say “ah but it’s only 16% of our exports whereas it’s whatever 60% of yours”, I just *shrug* – “do you really want to lose that 15% of your exports considering the rUK balance of trade is already about £50 billion negative?
Typo – 16% not 15%. The rUK exports are 16% to Scotland, 84% elsewhere. Losing those exports to us and that positive balance of trade for the rUK would worsen their balance of trade by £5.3 billion, increasing their already negative balance by a further 10%, something their currency and credit rating wouldn’t like.
Regarding whisky exports, my reasoning is that the figures I quoted @ 12.59 were figures that were quoted in a general publication – not sure which one – & that Joe Blogs, on reading that, would assume that this would be detrimental to an independent Scotland & could lead to his thinking that IScotland would not really be better off. This, coupled with other dubious figures/statistics, might just sway his appreciation of staying in lope-sided union.
This shyster Trump already being shown to be one of the most unethical guys yer ever likely to find as potus. Here he’s been tellin’ his pal Nigel tae campaign against wind farms. Think maybe just one wind farm in particular is bothering him?
‘When President-elect Donald J. Trump met with the British politician Nigel Farage in recent days, he encouraged Mr. Farage and his entourage to oppose the kind of offshore wind farms that Mr. Trump believes will mar the pristine view from one of his two Scottish golf courses, according to one person present.’
( ‘his entourage'(Farage) included Arron Banks, (‘major financier’ behind Brexit. Wigmore the guy who ‘spilled the beans’ about this conversation wi Trump, headed communications for LeavedotEU ‘…said in an email that he and Mr. Banks would be “campaigning against wind farms in England, Scotland and Wales.”)
He’s no gonnae be able to split his business interest fae his public service position is he? In fact he’s gonnae use his position to ‘enrich’ ‘bully’ ‘intimidate’ to get what he want.
Scots gov basically responded…we’re keeping oor policies:
“Scotland has vast potential to generate the power we need from renewable sources, in a way that helps the global fight against climate change,” her office said in a statement, adding: “We have clear planning policies in place to ensure wind farms are developed in appropriate locations.”
We should aw be mindful of a full monstering of our renewables coming our way…in an attempt by the ‘leader of the free world – elect’ tae huv wind mills moved oot the way of his financially struggling golf course.
(file under couldnae make this shit up/watch oor backs)
http://archive.is/hLzpl
Whataboutery over Scotland
Nigel Farrage Ambassador to the US? Quite a suggestion by the Donald.
So one bigoted isolationist and self publicist suggests that another bigoted isolationist and self publicist should become a diplomat on the world stage.
That pretty much sums up the current state of transatlantic politics right there.
Yay!
Not sure I agree that Divine Right of Kings was abolished in Scotland, the truth is it’s doubtful it existed in the first place. One of the main criticisms of Macbeth is not only is it inaccurate but it imposed a view of kingship foreign to Scotland. Part of the argument about just how far gaeldom extended which in turn might serve as another argument against simple inheritance of the crown.
In fact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanistry says RtB resorted to Tanistry in his claim which must have some merit in his success. In addition the reason Edward was invited in to arbitrate was due to there being no clear line of succession other than the recent, as in less than 300 years, policy of the eldest child being the default.
The Declaration of Arbroath wasn’t some radical new introduction into how the King or Queen of Scots was chosen. It was a declaration of how it had always been done. It was still in effect during the Commonwealth and Protectorate as that’s where the authority to choose Charles II as next monarch of Scots came from. It’s also where the mumping of gums about the restrictions of that monarchy arose.
Long story short, if the Divine Right of Kings is about it being a birthright then the DoA didn’t end it. However if it’s about ruling once anointed then the part about how he may be deposed may have meant something. Even when the Queen of England and Queen of Scots are the same it implies she must not put her duties as the former above those of the latter. Which means that contradictory advice on using the Royal Prerogative doesn’t simply mean the First Minister gets ignored.
O/T
According to the Henry Jackson Society there are threats to the west from those friendly to Russia, including the Scottish Independence movement.
Link here;
https://www.rt.com/uk/367688-rt-sputnik-russia-report/
Links
Scots push case for special Brexit deal in Brussels
http://archive.is/Xk81X
http://news.gov.scot/news/uk-chancellor-challenged-to-step-up-for-north-sea
http://www.scottishconstructionnow.com/13249/scottish-housebuilding-outstripping-rest-of-uk-says-housing-minister/#
https://athousandflowers.net/2016/11/20/this-autumn-neo-nazis-held-a-training-camp-in-scotland/
http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/brussels-prepares-hard-brexit
Alt-Right Exults in Donald Trump’s Election With a Salute: ‘Heil Victory’
http://archive.is/SsCz9
https://researchingreform.net/2016/11/21/shock-letters-to-reveal-culture-of-bullying-harassment-at-child-abuse-inquiry/
http://www.newstalk.com/Norths-finance-minister-calls-for-a-united-Ireland
@Yesindyref2,
You are correct that there is 0% duty on spirits whilst they are stored for export.
Remember however that this country also imports spirits and b various forms of alcohol from abroad which is liable for duty and which is also done predominantly through English ports which are credited with revenues.
In other words when we are all relaxing with some Champagne or vin rouge we have also contributed to the tax base for the UK.
In saying that whisky production is sufficient to employ 40,000 people in the UK ,30,000 of them below the border. It also adds £4.5 billion to the balance of trade.
Scotlands GDP would rise by a couple of billion which is not insignificant. Add to that the revenues we would accrue for imported wines and spirits to Scottish ports and it soon all adds up.as Scotland is no mean consumer of foreign brands.
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00510265.pdf
Sounding the alarm: UK Biotech Struggles to Cope With Brexit
http://archive.is/4Ne4m
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle-pick/donald-trump-was-right-the-election-was-rigged-in-his-favour/15/11/
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/11/21/comments-farage-trump-show-sheer-hypocrisy-alt-right-fanboys/
Nigel Farage… an ambassador?
So Theresa May sees Europe through the wrong end of the binoculars these days and looks to America for salvation only to find Farage already there and marking her card with Uncle Donald.
The upshot being they will “protect” Scotland from its people who want sustainable energy,… cue unwelcome interference in everything Scottish.
But the real fault line I see is Theresa May and Farage. Farage has already spiked May’s dream job as PM by leaving her the steaming turd of Brexit on her desk, and now he’s making sure Donald Trump speaks fluent UKIP before he meets the PM. It’s that man again Theresa…
With Farage being Trumps idea of an ambassador, and May’s idea of an ambassador being Boris Johnson, I don’t know whether we are sitting through a Shakespearean tragedy or a comedy, or if it’s actually a nostalgic Carry-on film trying to update the franchise.
They say truth is stranger than fiction, but I suspect irony means to trump them both.
I’ve seen enough. I wanna go home now. We should end all this before somebody gets hurt.
Lie their arses off? It’s fine. Brenda gags? Ofcom no likee.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38050925
David Baddiel’s radio show Don’t Make Me Laugh, which broadcast jokes about the Queen on her 90th birthday, has been found in breach of Ofcom rules.
The media watchdog received 12 complaints about the episode, which went out on 21 April on BBC Radio 4.
The BBC had already said it considered the jokes – about the Queen having sex – to be a serious breach of its editorial guidelines.
People should not believe the MSM hype.
Farague and Arron Banks are crooks who should be in jail. Farague has been funding a political Party with public money. Not putting in proper accounts and getting away with it. Protected by right wing Tories. Banks has been laundering the money, illegally through offshore accounts. They should be in jail. UKIP is in £Millions of debt. (£1/2Billion?). Farague has mucked up his funding source the EU. With Brexit the funding source stops. Now he is scrabbling about trying to find another source of revenue. UKIP can’t get elected in the UK. They are intent on destroying the world economy.
Trump is using the Wind turbines as a excuse for not completing the whole Menie Development. The 2008 crash will have hampered investment. Trump Jnr (manager) has stated the wind turbines are not a problem. Trump should not have alienated the local MP Alex Salmond who could have helped bring investment in the project. Supported by the local community and Scotland. Trump has still invested £Millions in Scotland.
The Greens and a handful of locals objected to the Development for various reasons. Some for personal gain. Getting cheques from all over the world and a free publicity stream. Told lies and made false representation. The SSI was for rare unknown plants. No one could find. A method of getting public money into (shooting) estates The only reference to ‘shifting sands’ was an 1984 unsigned Aberdeenshire Council letter. The Professor who studied the coast for 30 years was in favour of the Development. Saying, ‘the sands will still shift elsewhere as long as the winds are blowing’.
The Development actually protects the coast because more marron grass has been planted to protect the sands. Some councillors from other wards voted against the Development. Landowners who dislike rich Americans. At the full council meeting there were only two objectors, Greens who masquerading as LibDems to get elected.
The ‘crofter’ tells lies and is not highly regarded in the community. He would cause trouble in an empty room. He has been banned from the local pub for causing trouble. His brother had to sit in him to prevent further altercation. His brother drives in a vehicle covered in SNP/Independence display. The granny lived in a chalet, without planning permission. Until Trump was given planning permission for the Development.
6 households out of 23 on the estate object to the Development. The rest either support the Development or do not have a strong opinion either way. The Trump Organisation with agreement has put some properties onto water mains connection. Many of the households accepted the offer of a house at cost price (half) and market value for their house. The value of the houses will have increased in the vicinity of the Development. Further planning permission will have to be obtained. Any houses can’t be built without the Hotel and timeshares being completed – first? Permission for the 500 houses was only given to mitigate the cost of the whole Development being built. Originally 9 years from the Inquiry. 2009? If the planning permission had not run out – 2018.
The majority local community, the region and Scotland supportec the Development. Trump was ill advised and ignorant of Scottish Planning Laws. In the States people can build everywhere, with less permission. In Scotland people can’t build anywhere, without permission. The original planning permission has now expired but could be brought back for consideration and reapplied.
Neither a Farague or Trump has a vote in Scotland. If residential qualification is applied. People in Scotland nor Farague has a vote in the US without duel nationality and residential qualification.
Trump still has to get policy agreement through Congress. He doesn’t has a 2/3 majority necessary in the Senate. A 6 person majority in the House of Representative 47/53? With a third up for election every two years. 1 and a 3/4 years from the Inauguration. He could lose the necessary majority in Congress to get legislation through. Become a lame duck President. Like Obama.
.
Nana:
Good Morning,thanks for the links,very windy here.Kettle’s on.
Peace Always
@Smallaxe
Good morning. I don’t think I want to go out this morning, too cold!
Have a couple more links
https://medium.com/to-the-left/we-cant-go-back-41da17a1cd01#.o5gz1na73
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/21/trump-explodes-turns-record-meeting-tv-networks-total-disaster.html
Nana:
Thanks, Nana,I was back at the hospital yesterday,sorry that I did not reply to your post.
Peace Always
I’ve got a comment on a duplicate tab saying I can’t post it because I already have, and yet it isn’t here. Sigh…
Basically what I said was Trumps idea of an Ambassador is Farage, and May’s idea of an Ambassador is Boris Johnson.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
O/T
Is it just me or is BBC Scotland in full NHS/Scotrail really shit mode?
I do sometimes think that Freedom of Information act allows very lazy journos to distort articles to put Scotland in the worst possible light. The constant attacks on the NHS are nauseating and the recent figures being thrown about by the BBC in Scotland must make the NHS staff wonder why they bother. Of course incidents in hospitals need to be investigated but this level of batshit looniesay only demoralises staff and shows the media for the utter contempt they show for the people who are only trying to make us well.
Humza Yousaf needs to get on front foot over rail problem and point that the problem facing Abellio is a legacy of decades of under-investment throughout the UK and currently it is impossible for them to source additional carriages.
Point out that 26 new trains are due to be delivered next year and this coupled with the Scottish government’s £5 billion investment by 2019 into electrification, improved stations and new rolling stock augers well for the future.
This morning’s Daily Sieg Heil has a letters special where surprise, surprise all ten printed attack SNP and Humza. By contrast there was a very balanced discussion of rail problems on Scotland Tonight last night with Robert Samson of Passenger Focus making good points about Abellio’s punctuality which is still better than the average in England and Wales and the 80% high level of passenger satisfaction levels.
O/T
I see that that odious little man Adam Tomkins is using a photo of a N Carolina disaster where citizens died to monster the Transport Secretary over Scottish Rail performance.
A sectarian little bigot, an abject political failure in my constituency, this pond life still has a position of authority in Strictly Come Prancing Ruth Davidson’s Far Right Tory Branch Office.
I wonder what the Ethics Department at Glasgow University, who pay him the equivalent of £100,000 FT wages a year for 1 I/2 days ‘lecturing’ think of this malicious little toady’s distortions?
On Topic. Let’s not get bogged down in whisky sales when we consider Independent Scotland’s Expenditure and Revenue.
Every business operating in Scotland right now will be subject to Scotland’s Revenue and Customs laws and rules.
Tescos Sainsbury, ASDA, Morrisons, every car franchise outlet, and so on, will require to register as Scottish companies, and pay their dues, just like they do in say, the Republic of Ireland.
As to bottling plants in rUK buying Scotch whisky for onward world wide sales?We can bottle whisky up here and sell abroad. It’s called ‘cutting out the middle man’.
At the moment, ‘UK registered countries’ operating in Scotland, do not provide figures for Scotland only trade and tax revenue. The GERS figures are a ‘guesstimate’, deliberately vague and skewered to show Scotland in a bad light, and compiled from ORB, HMRC, ONS, data.
I sincerely hope that someone more capable than I is doing a piece of work on this, if only to expose the lies perpetrated by Kezia Dugdale, Jackie Baillie, The Queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser, and that Grandmammy of Lies, Ruth Davidson.
The aforementioned are truly the enemies of the Scottish people, IMHO.
Go on, sue me.
@ Orri
totally agree with you .
Divine right of kings never existed in scotland pre robert the bruce , the country was a mixure of the older celtic democratic system and the incoming laws brought by the norman french.
Robert the bruces grandfather even made his claim to the scottish throne using the celtic “tanist” system.
Under celtic law all offices were filled by election.
The feudal system of primogeniture wasnt recognised in large parts of scotland up to as late as the 17th century , and should a clan chief or high king upsurp his office , it was in the power of the people to depose him hence robert the bruce recognising this via the declaration of arbroath.
Trump Golf at Balmedie has become just one more spoke in the giant UKOK anti Scottish democracy campaign, that’s mercilessly trying to crush the butterfly that is our fledgling Scottish democracy.
The whole dune area of Balmedie, Trump golf included, is an entirely man made environment with marram grass.
Marram grass was a brilliant solution to the serious problems of the giant dunes shifting around, which they do all the time without stabilisation. Its used like this around the world, from China and the US, to Mongolia. Balmedie is an SSSI only because marram grass provides unique environments for other plant species and insects. Without marram grass, they wouldnt be there. In other parts of the world, marram grass is an invasive problem.
For Aberdeen, its clever a stabilisation to prevent the River Don from blocking and flooding and it works. River Don flooding was one of the primary drivers for Aberdeen harbour growth on the River Dee. Fittie didn’t get swapped by giant dunes. When the dunes at the Don mouth shift today, it exposes the medieval Don mouth harbour peer and village foundations.
Without marram grass, the whole of Balmedie’s sandy coastline would shift, flood in storms and could just disappear. The beach front sand in front of the whole of Aberdeen’s beach boulevard is disappearing despite massive attempts to save the sand with big chunks of granite.
Marram grass planting at Balmedie is much like the vast land reclamation on the Dutch coastline and its been done for the same reasons, for economic gain.
From the Don mouth to Trump golf the area is covered in economic activity, oil field HQ offices and pipe yards, farms, military shooting ranges, vast council landfill rubbish dumps, the expanding Balmedie commuter suburb, huge wind turbines, golf courses, including the oldest links golf course in the world.
All because of a very tough grass. The North Sea is taking back the Balmedie dunes though, slowly but surely.
These are the facts behind Balmedie and Trump. Everything else you hear about Balmedie and Trump, is merely UKOK vote NO toryboy, SNP bad, BBC bullshit.
see P. B Ellis “Macbeth”
chapter 1 pages 8/9.
Lays down a fairly good explanation of the celtic system of governance and succession.
andy wightman in his book ” the poor had no lawyers” in his chapter about “robert the bruce murdering medieval warlord” then lays down an explanation of bruces land grab , the privatisation of much of scotland and the further spread of feudalism from the early years of the 14th century onwards.
High time the Rev had a column in the National. ‘Zoomer watch’ or something.
Jack Collatin says:
“The aforementioned are truly the enemies of the Scottish people”
I think it’s a TRAIT, OR something
Peace Always
Jomry says @1.16:
Yes the SNP should have a daily rebuttal web page which can be searchable to help future letter writers, with phone ins and pro indy bloggers.
They do put out tweets but a wee bit more substance with four or five bullet points is required to demolish unionist propaganda
@ Ken500 – let’s not mislead readers again about the Foveran Sands SSSI. The reason they are of Scientific Interest is because they are SHIFTING SANDS. Stabilising them with Marin Grass, as Trump has done for his Golf course, destroys their scientific value.
Anyone can check the reasons for any designated SSSI site by going to the Scottish Natural Heritage website. All sites are listed along with their SSSI citation.
“Foveran Links contains extensive areas of mobile foreshore and sand dunes as well as fixed dunes, dune pasture, marshes and heath. The relationship between various plant communities and sand stability is clearly shown and the continuing movement of sand masses allow direct observation of these interactions.”
http://gateway.snh.gov.uk/sitelink/siteinfo.jsp?pa_code=659#features
I’ve had a look at the spreadsheet, and very helpful it is too. It’s worth noticing that most of the headlines were shouting about MP’s travel expenses, not total expenses. The travel expenses are: 13/14 £1,157,499; 14/15 £1,152,729; 15/16 £1,378,820. So while the total expenses in 14/15 are down, the travel expense are up by about 20%.
It could as well pan out that as 15/16 saw a large number of new MPs, and as it takes time to recruit staff, that the lower total expenses just reflect this start-up.
Solution of course is not to have MP’s and use that talent inside Scotland.
OT Ian Murray 11.52
http://archive.is/O6Z2g
New publication by Scottish Government on Our history with Europe.
A document outlining Scotland’s extensive historical engagement with Europe and its present democratic and constitutional position in relation to the UK, Europe and Brexit has been published today.
The document, for an international audience, explains the historical, political and legal reasons why Scotland’s voice needs to be heard following the EU Referendum. In addition the Scottish Government has set out our intention to publish plans to maintain Scotland’s relationship with Europe in the coming weeks.
http://news.gov.scot/news/scotland-a-european-nation
The new document from Scottish government “Scotland A European Nation” can be downloaded here
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00510265.pdf
Looking further, the average Scottish MP’s travel expenses are £23,370. Assuming that they need to travel to London for all or part or 30 weeks of the year, and noticing that a return sleeper is £320, that’s £9,600 gone on just the London travel. So £23,370 total doesn’t seem unreasonable.
[Air fares are harder, ‘cos they are much more variable. Flying tomorrow, back Thursday, leaving early and back late, would be £494. I’ve selected “economy plus” class. There is only one class, economy, but the “plus” lets you change your booking, as you’d have to do if parliamentary business overran.]
I see nothing changes in the last two weeks (been a guest of the SNHS) with shortbread radio on all out attack on Health , Education and the Trains, seems even more strident since I was tuning in a while back.
Where are all the unionist spokespersons or is Auntie with a kilt doing all the heavy lifting?
Lots of threads to catch up on but I see the Act of Union has bubbled to the surface, interesting developments.
Glad to be back in the hoose 🙂
@call me dave
Good to see you back!
@call me dave
Welcome back. 🙂
Hope you’re feeling the better for it.
call me dave.
Glad to have you back. Hope you’re feeling better.
The Professor who studied the coast disagreed. The shifting sands will keep shifting as long as the winds blowing. (I.e forever)unless the coast erodes. Extra marram grass stops the coast eroding. So either no ‘shifting sand’ because the coast erodes. Or shifting sand – as long as the sands is there and the wind blows, according to the expert Environmental Professor. The sand is there preserved because marram grass prevents it eroding
There was disreporting. That was misleading. No coverage was ever given if the majority who supported the Trump Development. Only premier coverage of the relative small number of protestors, who continually briefed the Press and NSM. One side reporting. Several,of the locals who supported the Development were interview by the BBC for over an hour. The subsequent programme showed non of this footage. Just the protestors point of view, of which there were few, for political purposes.
In ye good olde days MacT’s a polemicist but its just troll now.
Fiddle with his wiki thing, it’s changed instantly back. We’ll get you yet:D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McTernan
The Scottish National Heritage link – is the site of the protestor disreporting.
The LibDem/Green protestor had links to Scottish National Heritage. Helped formulate the policy decisions. When they should have been impartial and open when making decisions. Broke Council confidential data policies. To submit undue influence over Developments not in their Ward. .
Supported and funded by the Landowning Councilors who do not like rich Americans (foreigners) or land coming back into public use. Unless it is their land to their benefit and self interest. Having undue influence, supported by the Greens.
@mr thms says: 22 November, 2016 at 1:04 am:
“Have you seen this article?
It is by David M Walker who was Regius Professor of Law in the University of Glasgow from 1958-1990
It is from the 18th June 2007”
I went to read that article Mr thms but read no further than the first paragraph. That was enough to insure I will read no further. Here is why :-
“After three centuries, the Union of Scotland and England and the creation of the new state of Great Britain, or the United Kingdom of Great Britain, may again give rise to legal argument. “
This person has utterly no real idea of the subject he is attempting to write about. Let’s do a Rev Stu type analysis of that first statement.
He begins with, “the Union of Scotland and England”, but the union is not between Scotland and England. It is between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England. Two quite different things.
The Kingdom of England, in 1707, comprised the three countries of England, Wales and Ireland. He is thus either himself misled or he is attempting to be misleading to others.
He continues :- “and the creation of the new state of Great Britain, or the United Kingdom of Great Britain … “
There was nothing new created titled either, ‘Great Britain’, or a state of, ‘The United Kingdom of Great Britain’. That term, ‘Great Britain’, defines an existing geographic feature that is defined as the largest, or greatest, sized island in the British archipelago.
While the state that was actually created included, in addition to the island of Great Britain, the English Kingdom’s annexed, (in 1542), country of the entire former Kingdom of Ireland and that island of Great Britain included also the former Principality of Wales annexed by the English Kingdom in 1284. These were then, (1707), called English dominions
What was in fact created in 1707 was indeed entitled, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”, but it included, (in the text of the treaty), the following where I emphasis the relevant text that shows it also included rather more than just England in the largest, main, or greatest island in the archipelago.
“That the Succession to the Monarchy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and of the Dominions thereunto belonging after Her Most Sacred Majesty and in default of Issue of Her Majesty be, remain and continue to the Most Excellent Princess Sophia Electoress and Dutchess Dowager of Hanover and the Heirs of Her body being Protestants upon whom the Crown of England is settled by an Act of Parliament made in England in the twelth year of the Reign of His late Majesty King William the Third entituled An Act for the further Limitation of the Crown and better securing the Rights and Liberties of the Subject And that all Papists and persons marrying Papists shall be excluded from and for ever incapable to inherit possess or enjoy the Imperial Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions thereunto belonging or any part thereof And in every such case the Crown and Government shall from time to time descend to and be enjoyed by such person being a Protestant as should have inherited and enjoyed the same in case such Papists or person marrying a Papist was naturally dead according to the provision for the Descent of the Crown of England made by another Act of Parliament in England in the first year of the Reign of their late Majesties King William and Queen Mary entituled An Act declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and settling the Succession of the Crown “
There is thus no reasonable doubt that the Treaty of Union conjoined only the two kingdoms of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England. The truth being that both Wales and Ireland were not only seen as integral parts of the Kingdom of England by the English Kingdom but also accepted as such by the Kingdom of Scotland.
The salient point, though, is that the text makes it clear the it had become acceptable in 1707 to regard Ireland as being part of, “Great Britain”.
In other words the geographic meaning of, “Great Britain”, had already become corrupted by 1707 and had become accepted as describing what was then still the Kingdom of England that included also Wales.
The point, though, is that those drawing up the Acts of Union had realised that fact and thus made clear the act also included the Dominions of the Kingdom of England.
By the way I would think that such as North America, Australia and New Zealand were then considered as colonies of, rather than dominions of, The Kingdom of England. That part, though, is speculation on my part but it is interesting to conclude that if I am wrong then we Scots might do worse than claim our share of the former colonies of the English Kingdom as agreed in the Treaty and acts of union.
Ken500 says:
22 November, 2016 at 10:48 am
The Professor who studied the coast disagreed. The shifting sands will keep shifting as long as the winds blowing.
Marram grass is commonly used and it works too. Its created a totally artificial environment though, especially at Balmedie. Depending on the types of sea storms, onshore sands can swill around like sugar at the bottom of a glass of water.
At Balmedie, there’s effectively a sheet layer that has coated the sand dunes. This is being watched as its preventing the natural movement of the sand. Its one of the main reasons its an SSSI. No one really knows what happens under an environment with a large sheeted cover.
You can see this for yourself if you walk along the beach in front of Trump Golf in particular. No dune movement’s meant sea storms creating cliff like structures where normally they’d be washed around or away. They are so exposed, high and steep, they’re very popular with paragliders, using the cliff face prevailing wind lift.
This is what Trump Golf’s had to try and stabilise and stop, sea storms taking big bites out of the dunes. Its annoyed some environmentalists. But he’s got no choice.
Trump’s real problem is not being able to build his housing estate to underwrite the golf club. North east housing market has stalled with the oil price drop slump and cutbacks, just at the peak of a local house building boom. So Trump cant risk new build housing, in a relatively isolated area of the north east, all of which holds back actual Trump golf spends.
Long term, North Sea oil industry is already mature. It will bounce back but its not going to be the same level of growth and recovery earlier slumps, with the result boosts in growth. All of which is why Trump at Balmedie’s ground to a halt.
AWPR is coming though.
Pacific Quay must have a whole department devoted to firing off questions to Scottish Government departments to fill their news bulletins. There must be considerable costs to this business? who pays?
@ProfTomkins
I’m sure I’m not the only one to have spotted you appear to display the classic traits of a neo-fascits. Would I be correct in my assessment, given my perception is informed through principles of contemporary social science and shit?
http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf
@Chic McGregor says: 22 November, 2016 at 12:56 am:
“Niall Aslen after prolonged illness, sadly passed away last year. He was a great patriot and began his expose when a member of Cawin’ Thigither, a private on line think tank. He was also very active for Independence First and handled the finances for that organisation.”
Yes Chic. I always thought it a great shame Niall was regarded as rather too much the extremist for many in the SNP. He had a really brilliant analytical brain and would have been a great asset from within the Scottish government when they did gain power at Holyrood.
@ProfTomkins
Where exactly do you fit in to the corporatist construct of the British state? The one that accommodates a political spectrum ranging from British National Socialism to far-right Tory yoonery. You appear to have shunted your position along the tracks, from ‘far-left’ to ‘far-right’, in a truly populist fashion. Well, you are all Better Together, in the final analysis. Sure you’re not a neo-fascist?
http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf
@ Call me Dave
You’re not a Biker for YES by any chance are you?
If you are, I was a ward 209 National reader!
@Jomry says: 22 November, 2016 at 1:16 am:
“The Wings article above is an excellent riposte to the Scottish MSM disinformation. I think, however, that the Scottish Government / SNP should also be publishing these ripostes officially. “
Aye! Jomry, but where exactly do you propose the SG/SNP publish such things where they do not already do so?
Just how many people, not yet already converted to independence, read either the SG or the SNP party websites?
The SNP/SG have no powers to compel either the dead tree media or the TV/Radio broadcasters to carry, (or carry without distortion or biased comment), anything the SG/SNP want to publicise or publish.
For goodness sake, Jomry, the BBC even make certain their invited audiences are heavily biased in favour of the Union. You can see/hear the same anti-indy people in any BBC audiences no natter from where the broadcasts happen to be beamed from. That is not just coincidence.
Listen to Good Morning Jockland any day and you soon become aware that there is heavy anti-indy bias. To be truthful it is more akin to bare, unvarnished hate than just bias.
If you really bother to think about it you will realise that just because the Tory, LibDem and Labour parties were voted out of power they, and their camp followers, did not just all vanish from Scotland or emigrate to foreign parts, (like England, Wales and Ireland).
They are still there among we indy supporters in almost the same numbers as before. There is not just non-aligned voters in Scotland there are still aligned unionists and, when the chips are down, they will, (and do), band together to keep the Union alive in Scotland.
They make up far more than the swing voters who are open to be convinced. They are the hard-line unionists who belong to the unionist parties and will never really be convertible to anything else because they still are the unionist parties.
The only way to gain these people as YES voters is if they become sickened by, or become aware of, the unionist lies and propaganda. These are the ones who we hear say, “I used to vote ***** but I’ll never vote for them again. Some of these post here on Wings and are very welcome and often make the best grass-roots workers for independence.
I assume the ‘Any name but the Conservative and Unionist’ party leader, is aware that the original “Right to Buy” scheme introduced by her own party(?), contravened one of the core principles of international development law. Remember, the receipt of sales were prevented from being re-invested in affordable housing.
No policy or programmer should undermine the ability of an individual to satisfy basic requirements needed to enable social inclusion and personal development (roughly).
I think the Ruthenfuhrer should perhaps learn how to think outside of her particularly anti-social ideological box, before she next choose to bark at the Scottish public.
Nasty piece of work, this one.
@dhothersall
I admire your bravery WANK, spouting pish in support of British National Socialism and the party, despite your obvious disability. You are a shining example of how a complete lack of relevant knowledge and self-awareness, is no handicap to shinning up BLiS’s slippery pole.
You’re a feckin’ disgrace, WANK.
Bob,
To be honest Bob, I think Niall’s disaffection with the SNP was more by his own choice. He disagreed with them on several key issues, most notably on EU membership.
The danger of viewing the world through the perspective of ideologues, amplified through the bull-horn of the BUM, is the picture they present is stripped of human experience and value. The essence of BEING is lost in translation through the politics of in-authenticity.
The Swedish Chef (by The Swedish Pig) – Popcorn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuu0EMOEyR8
@Robert Peffers
I have to disagree with you about the article by David Walker who sadly died near the beginning of 2014, an important year for constitutional issues. If you can read it again without being critical of the detail, you might get a different view of it. I wasn’t just sad he died, I was savage as I would have hoped he could make a major contribution at some time, to the Referendum.
It was perhaps the single most useful article to use to refute Crawford & Boyle when they considered that the Treaty of Union might not “sound” internationally any more. It was also the most useful article to refute the rUK argument that it would automatically be the “Continuing UK”, the cUK. It would not.
What is says is that the Acts of Union just enact the Treaty of Union, but that it is the Treaty of Union that is the over-riding basis of the United Kingdom. And that quite simply means that Scotland and England were and are, equal partners in it.
It’s now becoming current with the High Court judgment, the UK Government appeal which wants to reassert Royal Prerogative on the basis that treaties of the Crown are above parliamentary acts, the Supreme Court appeal with the Scottish Government intervention – and that of the GB workers, with Aidan O’Neill as the QC.
In that context, the Treaty of Union would be superior to the Acts of Union, but the Claim of Right of 1689 would be above even that. It’s the path of the legal Sovereignty of the People of Scotland.
I was in two minds about Salmond not accepting the Supreme Court as the ultimate court for Scotland. In one way that makes Scottish Courts have the final say (ignoring the CJEU / ECJ, and the ECHR).
But in another if the Supreme Court IS the highest court of the UK, the UK itself is subject to the Treaty of Union, in which Scotland was an equal partner and signator (or at least the Commissioners were).
This appeal really could be a mover and shaker – or it could whimper out in itself from our point of view, but still have a bearing on Crown and Government, versus Parliament.
The People of Scotland have the right to decide the form of our Government – and our Monarch.
Grouse Beater,
“Rock: “The right to vote, given to them by Westminster, is basically the only right they have.”
You have a tendency of getting carried away by certitude. The English Supreme Court decided Brexit negotiations had to include Scotland. Can you point up the clause that the judges couldn’t get around? Many thanks.”
I am talking about the “plebs”, as you know perfectly well.
The right to vote, given to them by Westminster, is basically the only right they have.
“PS: Murray always answers ‘Scottish’.”
How do you know?
Can he show his Scottish passport to a “foreigner” if asked?
Capella,
“@ Rock – “I, a “sovereign” Scot, want to depose “Auld Lizzie”.
How do I start the process?”
Join a Republican Party and argue your case.”
In other words, there is absolutely no way the “sovereign” plebs can depose “Auld Lizzie”, contrary to what Robert Peffers claims.
In at the ending of a page again…
I want to pass this on to all the dyed in the wool torys I know. How do I do that
“and get a gibbering flock of anonymous squeakers from your baggage train tweeting me to ‘apologise’ and ‘retract’. Well stuff that Stu, I had it exactly right on that particular point (I concede I should have put ‘travel’ before expenses.”
Horseshit. I saw your whole timeline and you obviously didn’t just mean travel expenses. When challenged you made no attempt to claim, concede or correct that – you just blocked people. It’s a simple, unarguable arithmetical fact that the SNP have turned up to Parliament far more, spoken more, voted more, and cost taxpayers very significantly less than the previous Unionist-dominated group.
Im convinced Scotlands professional journalist dont do any hard work, not because they dont want to. They dont do it because they are paid not to do it.