Dead ringers
Several papers today report that “Better Together” are filing a complaint with the BBC about the audience at Monday’s debate between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, alleging bias in both audience composition and question selection – claiming that 10 questions favoured the Yes side to only three favouring No.
We’re not really sure how a question can favour either side, but the sour-grapes move does raise an interesting issue, which we’re going to illustrate with an example from the debate the BBC ran the following evening in Edinburgh.
The man in the picture above is Dr Scott Arthur, a lecturer in Civil Engineering at the city’s Heriot-Watt University. He was a prominent feature of the debate, heckling the Scottish Government finance minister John Swinney (as well as Yes audience members, eg at 27m 10s) loudly throughout the programme, and being given several minutes of airtime to make a variety of accusations against him. He takes up the bulk of a five-minute section from 11m to 16m on the iPlayer recording, for example.
His comments, however, weren’t part of a scheduled “question” (presenter James Cook doesn’t appear to know his name, unlike that of those asking a scripted one), and so wouldn’t have been counted in any tally of how many questions came from each side. Levelling complaints of bias purely on the number of questions, therefore – rather than the amount of airtime given to each side’s views – is a useless measurement.
But there’s something else. Scott Arthur has a Twitter account under the name “Edinburgh Says Naw”. There’s nothing unusual about that, and it makes his political allegiance very clear. But an alert reader spotted that the “Edinburgh Says Naw” account uncannily mirrors that of another user – one who will be more familiar to social-media referendum followers and who goes by the name of “BrigadoonGent”.
Above are two unedited sequences of tweets taken from the two accounts this morning. By a quite remarkable coincidence, both accounts have tweeted the exact same stories in the same order at the same time.
What’s more, they’ve both been appended in the exact same way, in every case. For example, if you click the bottom story, it takes you to a BBC page. But if you click the Twitter “share” button on that page, you get a prefilled tweet box that doesn’t include the #indyref hashtag. Both accounts have had to add that hashtag manually before tweeting the link. Similarly, the one above it has had THREE hashtags manually added, and an @ credit to the source (the Guardian) manually removed.
Dr Arthur also raised issues on the debate programme which Twitter observers will recognise as obsessions of the “BrigadoonGent” account, including the oddly-specific claim (at 11m 15s on iPlayer) of a “£12.1 billion” deficit.
So it seems a pretty safe bet to suggest that Dr Arthur is both “Edinburgh Says Naw” and “BrigadoonGent” – particularly as the blog that you’re directed to from the “BrigadoonGent” account identifies its author as a “University Lecturer” from Edinburgh.
But then, so what? There’s no law against having two Twitter accounts. The problem, though, is that “BrigadoonGent” poses as something of a Don’t Know. The Twitter account’s name is “Yes No Maybe”, its avatar is a dice showing those three words, and the bio is an exhortation to “ask questions, then decide”. The blog professes to provide facts, which are heavily one-sided, but makes no actual declaration of support.
We can’t be sure which of Dr Arthur’s split personalities applied to the BBC to be on the debate – the out-and-out No campaigner or the pseudo-undecided. But if it was the latter, that’s a clear distortion and subversion of the programme’s attempts to provide a balanced audience. Dr Arthur’s frequent shouted interruptions made the most of the opportunity he was afforded by taking a seat under possibly false pretences.
Of course, we don’t know that any of that is the case. He may well have disclosed his No allegiance openly on the application. And we wouldn’t be surprised if supporters of both sides undertook such shenanigans, in this debate and/or in others. But it does demonstrate just how fatuous it is to file sulky complaints of audience “bias” just because your man got a hounding on the stage.
I love the internet and folk who root around in it….totally outed!
Not great to publish his e mail address. You know fine well that the victimhood card will be played immediately.
Isn’t this the same guy that wrote to a one of the daily fail’s cybernats’ employer to ‘expose’ the said Yes campaigner. If so this is karma
The 2 or 3 or 4 faces of BT/No thanks/No hopers whatever.
Stu have you ever considered a career as a private investigator? Brilliant detective work as always.
Oh my my my. Hoist (probably) by his own whatsit!
Just shows, there are no secret squirrels any more.;)
I watched the show, Dr Scott Arthur. His actions were suspicious.
And what is with the pointy, shouty BT naw UKOK folk?
I’m sure he’s very happy to be featured in your WBB ( Wee Biased Blog, see what I did there..geddit ) Unlike yourself he. in one of ‘guises’ will never admit to a bias. He thinks he’s been clever. He illustrates perfectly the type of underhand tactics our opponents will use. Perhaps they’re too ashamed of the amount of self loathing their stance represents and just cannot bear to say what they really support in public. Or mibbe, this campaign gives the trolls a potentially bigger audience. But ‘pots’ and ‘kettles’ springs to mind.
I was at this debate and could not believe how much this guy was permitted to heckle and shout down the panel. Towards the end even some “no” folk seemed to be disgruntled with his constant obnoxious barracking of the panelists.
I’m not an angry person but I was close to waiting in the car park to give him a piece of my mind.
Yep, watched him last night and thought he is a bit too practiced to be just an ordinary punter, and the heckling continued although the camera didnt pan back to him so wasnt sure if it was him or not. Any one know if the story he spun about wife in NHS managing wards has any truth to it?
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive.”
i was there was allowed to ask a question and the couple next to me were swearing constantly every time Salmond breathed and even they groaned when Darling brought up currency ….. Better Together are at panic stations
I missed that debate. I watched the section with Dr. Brigadoon from the link and thought John Swinney handled it very well indeed.
I guess there are people on both sides who pose as ‘don’t knows’ to see if it affects the types of responses they get, but in my own little realm of human contact it is clear which don’t knows are really don’t knows and which ones are the no voters. With the latter category, it takes days or weeks of teasing to get Britnat attitudes revealed, which is the main reason I think they are actually posing as don’t knows. They would reveal hypocrisy to themselves if they couldn’t claim just to be interested in getting at facts and economic stuff.
Simplified example of ‘undecided’ or ‘possibly no but not sure’:
Will we be in Europe?
Is that the most important thing to you?
Well, it’s important, and I don’t think Salmond has been honest about it.
Ok, blah blah (repond to this point rebustly)
Well anyway, that’s not the most important thing for me, I’m concerned about ….
Repeat ad nauseum until you get … well, you can’t just split up a country (a country that has been together for 300 years, 2 world wars, blah blah) on that basis.
Another UKOK fraud finger jabbing shoutererer. Interesting answer from Stair Heid in there too, this nonsense union “wants to keep public services in public hands but questions remain over funding” 16.40.
Wonder what that means future Baroness Johann Lamont, “BrigadoonGent” and new new Labour?
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-nhs-and-the-ttip-trap/
Nae surprised, soon as he opened his mouth he was straight on my, something dodgy about him radar. Looked like a kid in a sweety shop at the credits as well.
He heckled diffERENT members public off camera thru-out show
BULLY
Mmmm, heckling man remains seated during TV debate. Heckling man gets thrown out of Brown/Darling meeting. It should be an action packed BBC news tonight when they cover both these stories.
Lamont means privatising the NHS, either side of the non border, but just the juicy bits of the NHS though. Health insurance is often paid by your employers too, its all good.
Had a feeling that this numpty was a plant and not a good one at that.
Was loud and shouty and kept heckling John Swinney throughout the programme, to the point I wondered if he would have been shown the door
Turns out he IS a creep
HAHA now he get a bugs bunny on twitter EH What’s Up Doc
bookie from hell
Yes, noticed that, when the young lass with the big ear-rings was speaking. Think she made a remark about it
Oh Stu, how could you?
Where’s that donate button again?
Stu,
He was put in the section on the right with all the other “NO” voters, so we can be fairly sure he applied on that basis, otherwise he would have been in the middle with the small cohort of undecided voters.
That being said he was shouting at other audience members, the guy behaved like an ignorant bully and really should have been escorted out.
Should just be Dr of Engineering nothing civil about him snarly trouble maker there is probably more accounts than that you see the same styles of writings from other nawbags
Also big Herald puff for NO this afternoon. What a bunch they are. On the one hand Crash states
“Mr Brown said SNP proposals to cut corporation tax would benefit large companies, including energy firms.
“The biggest beneficiaries of the SNP’s tax policy are the shareholders and directors of the privatised energy companies in Scotland,” he said.
and t’other 120 Tory boys that own big businesses up here
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/iscotland-industry-leaders-warn-yes-vote-would-be-bad-for-business.1409094325
Wednesday 27 August 2014
More than 120 industry leaders have signed an open letter warning the business case for independence has not been made.
Could bettertogetherBBC Scots media etc please make their freaky deaky minds up please?
I watched the BBC debate from Edinburgh last night, the person in question asked John Swinney a question (which was addressed by John Swinney) and then proceeded to heckle John Swinney whenever he answered any questions from the audience, and in general, throughout the debate.
The camera briefly dwelt on him after he had asked his question and after a period of loudly heckling John Swinney; he had a grin on his face. If you watch closely again, it is clearly seen.
Seems he was trying to encourage the audience to heckle Swinney (ala the STV Salmond-Darling debate).
He came across as a buffoon, and clearly a No voter. I`m surprised he wasn`t asked to leave. But then, I`m not surprised at all.
“Not great to publish his e mail address.”
Where did I publish his email address?
Given his interruptions, Dr. Brigadoon would appear quite an uncivil engineer imo 🙁
Just proves once again that being an academic doesn’t necessarily make you a genius, and Dr Arthur would appear to be one of those (Tomkins, History Woman, Pennington and others) who mistakenly believes that their expertise in one field automatically makes them an expert in other domains. Who would have thought that shouty, immature idiot speaking absolute nonsense would be a senior university lecturer?
They should have chucked him off the show. It’s one thing to have a go at a panellist, but shouting from the audience repeatedly throughout is the kind of thing an arsehole does.
I tried, I really tried to watch the totally unbiased debate, with three unionist members against Mr Swinney. To keep my sanity and my TV safe, I switch off.
I see from LinkedIn that Dr Arthur’s PhD was titled ‘Sediment Transport in Sewers’.
An alternative title would be ‘A Load of Shite’.
Quite appropriate!
Looks like he’s updated his twitter.
Dr Scott Arthur = Edinburger, University Lecturer, Father, Brother, CoS Elder, Runner, Cyclist, Son, Civil Engineer, BrigadoonGent, Scottish, British & Fifer!
Ha Ha
I’m sure he was sitting on the NO side of the audience
So he must’ve disclosed it
Or he was put in by the ebc to raise those points on his blog, how else can you explain the air time he got and how he was allowed to loudly heckle John Swinney all night
I’m sure if the ball was on the other foot the YES heckler would have been either told to keep it down or been asked to leave
Wont be the first time the ebc has planted folk like that in the audience as you have established before
Remember that god bless the union, union first idiot on question time for eg.
I was part of the debate last night. Whether he professed his alliance to no beforehand should be easy to find out. The audience was split into three and people who said they were yes wore green wristbands, those who wore pink were undecided and those who wore red were no.
He does seem to be sitting on the no side of the debate, to be fair.
The more interesting thing about this guy was that he was chatting to Charles Kennedy before and after the debate.
Reminds me of Edinburgh Eye. I knew the author of that in the real world. Her vitriolic hatred of the SNP was a bit of a give away that the “undecided” pretense was just that – pretense.
It has always occurred to me that Brigadoon gent occasional Twitter foe would prefer Scotland to disappear into the mists of time as does the namesake movie of the same name. Does he hate Scotland that much? Yet he lives in Scotland. It’s hard to understand.
Reverend I have my postal ballot paper with the big X in the YES, I know, shocker, but can i email you a photo of it to show everyone? Could be the first one out there
“Stu have you ever considered a career as a private investigator? Brilliant detective work as always.”
I’m nothing without alert readers.
I thank Battered Togethers actions here as it goes hand in hand with the complaints they made following the first debate and the devious audience selection utilised there.
Bravo Blair, you da man, now come close so we can smell the salt on those tears
“I tried, I really tried to watch the totally unbiased debate, with three unionist members against Mr Swinney.”
Joyce McMillan is a declared Yes.
Just looked at his facebook.
https://archive.today/VgnyC
On #patronisingBTlady
“Nice wee video. It got me thinking. Vote #NoThanks.”
On JoLa
“It was great to meet Johann Lamont this evening. I was really impressed by her intellect & passion.”
The man is clearly an idiot.
A hardline “NO” posing as a “DON’T KNOW” is a particularly sneaky trick, cleverly designed to make it look like a genuine, reasonable undecided voter cannot be convinced about independence (for whatever reason(s)).
First hook any undecided voter into paying attention to your narrative (you are after all, one of them), and then trash all the YES arguments, one by one. What’s left but to vote NO on the 18th.
Whether significant numbers of undecided will be duped into voting NO is difficult to predict. But the sight of a university lecturer, a professional, educated man, stooping so low, behaving in such a despicable way, is really rather sad. Just how desperate are they?
“Whatever it takes”?
Snafu above 🙂
It has always occurred to me that Brigadoon gent, occasional Twitter foe, would prefer Scotland to disappear into the mists of time as occurs to Brigadoon in the Movie of the same name. Does he hate Scotland that much? Yet he lives in Scotland. It’s hard to understand.
https://www.facebook.com/scott.arthur.509
Well I suppose this already has or will be active across social media. Wonder what his students think of him?
The old saying, you reap what you sow applies here.
Next there will be complaints because he was “monstered on twitter, poor wee guy.
Sunday herald bucks trend – sales up, 6 months to end June.
Wonder why?
Wonder what the Embra’ Sunday did?
@heedtracker
Why does Crash Gordon go on about the SNP wanting to cut corporation tax, when he did the exact same thing himself? The guy is either completely deluded or knows he is lying; either option is not good. D: When are the MSM going to pick him and the rest of the SLAB unionist drones up on this? That one is a rhetorical question… 😀
BrigadoonGent asks –
Where did the BBC find this audience? #BBCindyref #indyref
https://archive.today/8TVy4
@ muttley, its not just Crash takes the piss, its every other country cutting corp tax everywhere else that thinks they have to, from Canada and the USA to other big economies. WoS did a chart to show it all. Its one big part of bettertogther attack though, how can you be a progressive tax country by cutting corporate tax etc Brown is a like a maniac on the loose now and i add “like” to be polite:D
Gordon Brown has total contempt for the electorate. According to Wikipedia he was a child genius. Unfortunately in his case it has led to a dangerous condition whereby he thinks he can get away with saying and doing anything.
I missed the debate las night thanfully, my TV would not have been safe. Couldn’t watch it after a couple of minutes from the link.
However I did phone in June to BBC about Sarah Smiths bias and this is the answer I got.
=======================
From: bbc_complaints_website
To: james caithness
Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 20:46
Subject: BBC Complaints – Case number CAS-2751327-LSMMFN
Dear Mr Caithness
Reference CAS-2751327-LSMMFN
Thank you for your telephone call. Your comments were passed to the Editor of Scotland 2014, who has asked that I forward his response as follows:
“Thank you for your comments regarding our programme broadcast on 11th June 2014.
Sarah was certainly robust in his questioning of Ruth Davidson MSP and Annabelle Ewing throughout, but no more so than regular viewers might expect. Politicians should of course be given the opportunity both to explain their thinking on matters of public concern and answer criticisms of it, but equally, political interviewers need to put the questions likely to be in the minds of viewers and look for answers.
Experienced politicians are very adept at evading questions or following their own agenda when replying and it is part of an interviewer’s role to ensure that they are reminded, when appropriate, of the original question or pressed on points that are of particular public interest. When any of the presenters interrupt, their intention is always to keep the interview on track and ensure that the interviewee’s views are properly scrutinised.
Sarah has a reputation for asking tough questions and this interview was in keeping with what politicians and viewers have come to expect from her and from Scotland 2014. Her approach was certainly an even-handed one.
The up-and-coming referendum is a long campaign and there have been, and will be, many opportunities across all of our platforms for coverage of the issues. Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output.
Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.”
Details of the BBC complaints process are available online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle.shtml
Kind Regards
Tony Rogers
BBC Complaints
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
NB This is sent from an outgoing account only which is not monitored. You cannot reply to this email address but if necessary please contact us via our webform quoting any case number we provided.
@ muttley79, http://wingsoverscotland.com/through-the-vortex-again/ is a good start in the madasfcuk hypocrite stakes
I knew you would get to the bottom of him
I was complaining that Smith was letting Davidson and Goldie off whilst interupting and badgering Nicola Sturgeon.
Notice how they have turned it around.
At the meeting last night my panel member who was once a diplomat said after a YES win we should dismantle the BBC in Scotland sack all the presenters and bosses and then build a Scottish Broadcasting Corp. and hire only the good ones from the disbanded BBC
I AGREE.
He sounds very much like a troll who appears on Bella under the name of Sure Scot. Apparently an engineer, and making much the same narrow economic arguments.
The guy was annoying and smug (a comment I added to twitter last night) but he was sitting in the def no side so intentions were clear.
150 Business leaders coming out for yes tomorrow or friday….in a letter just like no.
As for this boy, does the idiot not realise that our deficit, we have no control of? Things are added to our budget, yet we do not have control of that money.
E.g.Defence, HS2 funding
This chap was a nightmare all through last night. He heckled Swinney, he heckled people in the audience. How he wasn’t removed I have no idea. Even some in the No side were complaining about him.
I was happy to get my point across without heckling, however if he had I may just have removed him myself. After all, I’m Batman. 😀
What puzzled me, was the third twitter account, thrown up, when I used his title, name and brigadoongent as search terms.
@heedtracker
Brown is a like a maniac on the loose now and i add “like” to be polite:D
By the end of the referendum campaign (the 17th September in other words) who do you think will be the most wound up, and ranting to random people and animals; Crash Gordon, Flipper Darling, Poor Old Cochers, Gardham, Crichton, Brian Wilson, Lamont, Curran, the Murph etc? 😀 😀
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28952194 propaganda hard core. Whats happened to the neutral reporting run up period? just more kidology from our sneaky creepy masters at Pacific Quay.
and now its Archie Macpherson. Even why I was a kid at Pitodrie, fans used to shout up at Archie in his scaffolding camera podium behind the stand about how they applauded his remarkable lack of bias towards Rangers FC and how his commentary always reflected a very open and happy countenance, when not his team got humped.
I made 2 complaints to the EC, both times got an auto response saying Thank you we will get back to you soon. (or words like that)
Many days now past and no response to the question are the UK government in breech of the REF rules if paying for BT online adverts?
We cannot trust then either folks, not the first time I have had this happen.
rev you and the alert reader needs to get out more
but thank god for scotland that you dont
i watched the debate and i just thought he was like the wee snobby ignorant arrogant guy who knows better than everybody else (or thinks he does)in my class at school..theres 1 in every school apparently…also ive never been a fan of john swinney but i thought he was very good last night
and as for the better together complaining about the bbc i think its a ploy for the bbc to save face…too late the damage has been done
“The audience was split into three and people who said they were yes wore green wristbands, those who wore pink were undecided and those who wore red were no.”
Brilliant, ta. I’ve edited the article – from TV footage he definitely seems to be wearing a pink one.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EdinSaysNaw is interesting as he is prominent in logo and sets himself up as Brigadoon gent on that.
The audience last night were wearing coloured bands to indicate their voting preferences and were seated in banded groups so it should be easy to ascertain whether he flew under false colours or not.
I might be wrong, but I’m sure I heard the man, amidst all the shouting he was doing, saying that his wife is a nurse who seems to be suffering under the weight of NHS cuts. The poor soul seemed to be very upset about that and I felt some sympathy for him, but as he progressed I began to feel sorry for any woman that had to live in a house with a man that shouted that loud! That’s only me!
lol what i find real funny is after all this time they finally notice the BBC to be biased,just because it messed up two days in a row and blew there stupid little naw,cant,wont campaign out the window,i didnt see them complain when they were getting it all there own way damn poor losers.
A lesson BTNThanks idiots if you are going to tell lies we will be there to point it out to the world.
Great job Stu lol
Here’s he’s bleating on again about the deficit.
https://www.facebook.com/YesScotland/photos/a.447127981964784.249120.410177615659821/834562876554624/?type=1
Mentorn seem to be in charge of audience selection for these debates being subcontracted by the BBC might be worth a contact to them
Doc Brigadoon’s idyllic fantasy Scottish NO empire comes crashing to the ground.
Maybe he could come back as Walter McMitty, living a vivid fantasy life as an undecided voter whereas in real life he is NO.
Here’s Doc Brigadoon objecting to people shouting out in public at Jim Murphy in Motherwell –
Civic nationalism. Scotland 2014. #indyref http://ow.ly/ACh2H
https://archive.today/8TVy4
And more of this.
https://www.facebook.com/HailAlbaGusnooker loopy!/photos/a.136650206412995.35100.136640179747331/653898391354838/?type=1
@James Caithness
The White Paper suggests a SBC, not sure about the process mind but that aided to my surprise at audience members allowed to speak on Mondays debate, seemed Camera-men and Glenn didnt get the memo( although I didnt check end credits in case it was outsourced production ie Mentorn)
There has been talk of post referendum what will relationships be like. Just the same, haters like Mr Pink will keep on hating, to quite modern-cringe-talk, and the rest of us will carry on moving forward.
I was at the debate last night. I asked the 2nd question on poverty. We all had to declare which ‘side’ of the debate we were on, and were issued with different coloured wristbands. All the reds (nos) were seated at the side this chap was sitting in so he must’ve declared a NO on application. (the undecideds in the middle were pink banks and the YES’ were Green-for GO 🙂 )
Mine was the only question from the yes side. the other three were from the NO side NHS, Currency and OIL.
The BBC bias is unforgivable.
After the Darling Masacre on Monday night they have done everything to play down the result and ‘interview’ only people that seemed to think ‘it was a draw’ or ‘that it didn’t persuade me one way or another’.. shocking. They must have searched all day to find those folk as the vast majority of people that watching it could clearly see there was only one winner.
I struggled to watch Scotland 2014 last night. Not even trying to ‘hide’ the bias anymore, just blatently obvious!
Get Independence and get rid of the BBC!!!
These are also the people who come on to pro-independence websites, declare themselves to be YES voters then rip the hell into Salmond and the SNP time and time again regardless of the discussion without actually saying why they are voting YES in the first place (we all know a couple that’s been on here).
I really think there are not many of them around who go to the bother of having twin online personalities and be active elsewhere, but they are either intelligent, well educated people with batshit crazy views on politics, and/or, they are paid to be so. It’s probably a mixture of both.
There is one tactic though, the idea is to get DKs into voting NO and to stop soft NOs into drifting away to YES, by fair means or foul.
Sigh… more and more of it.https://www.facebook.com/HailAlbaGusnooker loopy!/photos/a.136650206412995.35100.136640179747331/643157212428956/?type=1
Seems like he’s a regular troll on quite a few forums.
That Pink looks rather Orange….which would explain a lot
How ironic his favourite film is Dr Strangelove :”Dr. Strangelove is nihilism for the masses, a philistine nihilism.”
O/T I got my postal vote in today, yippee!
BUT: I also got at the same time a no thanks leaflet with it, with my address on it, telling me the usual guff, but to return my postal ballot today.
Sounds to me that BTUKNothanksetc… are contracting the Royal Mail to send out this mailing with your postal voting papers.
Is that allowed?
Also asked Mum, her’s too also came with addressed leaflet.
sorry I just read back comments. Pink was undecided, so he has ‘fibbed’ on his application. but is happy to sit on the left hand side with the NO’s – he was pretty rude.
On Dr Arthur’s main Twitter account he describes himself as “BrigadoonGent” so I don’t think he is trying to mask his identity and there is certainly nothing wrong with having a view on independence and expressing it loudly even if that might be a little off-putting.
I just finished watching the debate though and thought he came across rather poorly. Mind you, most of the debate in Edinburgh was awful and questions that were answered only the night before were repeated yet again. Either people aren’t listening or there are campaigners on both sides (though predominantly “No” from my first watch) who want to keep bringing up the same now non-issues, especially over currency. The stringent belief that Scotland would need to adopt the Euro being the most noticeable.
Read the front headline of the Daily Express this morning saying that the BBC were being accused of being biased. Thought thank god, a newspaper is actually reporting this shocking behaviour!
Then realised if was the No side accusing them… my chin dropped in amazement!!
Come on Naw side if u can’t play with the big boys then don’t play at all.
Bloody rich!!!!!
I’ll start this by stating that I’m a YES voter (at heart anyway as I don’t actually have a vote).
In the introduction to the debate, James Cook states that the audience has been divided “YES” on one side, “NO” on the other with the undecideds in the centre. You can clearly see that Dr Arthur is sitting on the “NO” side when you know you’re looking for him.
Just thought it fair to clear that up. He obviously did go into the BBC as a NO voter rather than undecided.
I attended the Salmond V Darling mismatch on Monday. I’ve seen the headlines now coming out about bias and lack of control and have to disagree. Not because I’m Yes, but because I think that is a fair assessment.
I watched the first debate at home, I thought Salmond performed poorly and I posted that online. Repeatedly. I’m not one of the blind faithful who cannot see fault in myself or my side. I was bloody angry with him and didn’t hide it.
To Monday though, and I arrived at Kelvingrove and saw a few Yes badges. I was going to wear a Yes t-shirt but thought the BBC might stop me getting in wearing it, so opted for a t-shirt with the name of the band James on it. The letters are spread round the body, so on the chest it read Ja. German for Yes. Luckily no one clocked it and I went in and mingled until we were called.
We were called on twice to identify the people who had been picked to give the selected questions. This is done so that they can be seated and the cameras know where they will be at set points in the programme, and is pretty standard stuff. Otherwise seating was entirely at random and I found myself with a No voting Northern Irish pensioner on one side and what appeared to be a maybe on the other, who clapped Mr Darling enthusiastically as the night went on. From my limited vantage point observing the initial and early applause it seemed on the surface a fair enough split.
As an Airdrie supporter I am not averse to finding fault with the referee, but Glenn Campbell is one of the few people I’ve seen who runs a fair show, willing to question both sides on points where necessary. The section where they allowed Salmond and Darling to cross examine each other was where things changed though.
Darling went first, questioning Salmond over his Plan B. Having already answered this earlier it drew some loud laughs and groans from Yes supporters, but overall Mr Darling was given his space to get on with it by the audience. Probably about 5 minutes in to his alloted 8 minutes is where the heckiling started- FOR Darling!
“Answer the question! cried one woman. “ANSWER THE QUESTION!” and a few more joined in sporadically. MR Darlings 8 minutes were soon up though, and it was now Salmond’s turn. The No camp having set the tone for harrassing the person being questioned, the tables were now turned, and this time Mr Darling got it for more than just the last few minutes. The Yes supporters were now able to match the No supporters in their requests to “Answer The Qustion” and this combined with Mr Salmond’s performance clearly rattled him. He stuttered and stammered, hemmed and hawed. Advantage Salmond. The producers and Mr Campbell allowed the Yes suporters the same free rein as had been given the No camp.
That the No camp did not clap as long or as hard is down to them, no one else. That No supporters seemed happy to clap, but not to question must go down to them too. I stuck my hand up and eventually spoke, having been passed over a few times. Others weren’t so persistent or didn’t put their hands up at all.
After a slow start it was a vocal enough aidience, but not in the manner that Glenn Campbell had to step in and sort it out.
On leaving I spoke to the Maybe/No chap. “it was a bit of a rammy, I’m none the wiser” he said. That’s possibly No speak for “we lost”. Listening to the chatter around me there was no talk of bias or unfairness. The question only was who won, and it was clearly felt Salmond walked it.
The BBC is without a doubt biased. Their reporting of the referendum overall has been, if you know what to look for, slightly skewed. Enough to fool the casual observer, the person who follows headlines, not detail. But in the case of the few debates I have attended, when all eyes are on them, they do appear to have played fair.
I’m not an SNP member, or a blinkered Yesser who can see no fault on my side. I was able to be honest after the first debate and say that Salmond was poor and Darling came out on top in a fair contest. Are there any unionists out there who can do likewise?
Further research required…
Was this parasite supposed to be at work at Heriot Watt by any chance when he was tweeting and FB’ing ?
Ah yes, the well kent twitterer, Brigadoon Gent. Sounds about right. I remember him once telling me he was in his mid – forties, this fellow appears to fit the bill right enough.
No way was he undecided, quite a few folk today have been claiming he must have been a plant. They think we’re daft.
I don’t wish to in any way demean the engineering profession, but there is an intellectual tendency to consider that all problems are somehow technical and that only single outcomes or solutions are possible. That seems to be part of his issue? The idea that politics (and economics) are very malleable is not part of the thinking.
Anagrams of Dead ringers:
Red is Danger!
Red Arse?, DING!
It certainly seems like both the BBC and ITN were horrified by the outcome of the BBC debate and have thrown balance to four winds. I hope the Electoral Commission is both listening and measuring. I guess we can complain the EC if this level pitch continues.
On Dr Arthur, there are a couple of the Better Together types that play the concerned individual game. Tellen, NorseWarrior etc., all have the same shtick (not to mention a strange obsession with Salmond).
Each to their own, it isn’t a crime but it is funny to call them out too. 🙂
[EDIT 4.18pm: We’re told by someone who attended the debate that audience members were identified by wristbands – green for Yes, red for No and pink for undecideds. Dr Arthur appears to be clearly wearing a pink wristband, meaning he was fraudulently posing as a Don’t Know.]
As I stated above, in the introduction to the debate you can clearly see him sitting on the NO side of the studio.
Scott Arthur used to post lots of comments on the Yes Edinburgh North & Leith Facebook page. Asked ‘challenging’ questions as an earnest undecided voter who simply wanted to know more. He had his own ‘Undecideds’ page as well. Soon outed as a No campaigner based on what he was posting.
Regarding band colour – that “pink” band appears the same colour as the all the bands in the “No” seating area. Check 22:35 to 22:40 for a clip of the “No” section clapping where other bands of a similar colour can be seen.
I would suggest, irrespective of differences of opinion, that Dr Arthur is correctly banded and seated.
One yes postal vote from Barnton.
HAPPY DAYS AHEAD!
@HandandShrimp
Can you tell me what an ElectoralCommission if for in respect to fairness and balance?
Dont they review and respond AFTER the actual vote which is a bit like buying a collar with a bell when your cats just had an intimate meeting with a radiator grille
I thought Joyce whatshername made some pretty good points, even though she’s a Scotsman journo.
Smug bloody Kennedy made my blood boil repeating the BT lies though. Why is he held in such high regard?
And the mediating and audience selection was back to the usual BBC Scotland agenda after the big Salmond vs Darling debate – that seemed fairer (after all, the eyes of the world were on that one).
I was in the audience last night. The heckler was most definitely in the ‘no’ section wearing a red wristband. He was extremely aggressive and ranting, however he had declared his voting intentions.
Excellent detective work Stu! I was annoyed by this chap during the program, not because of what he said, but the manner of his constant interruptions and jibes on and off camera.
I’m not a Twitterer (Tweeter?), so I don’t get all this hash-tag stuff, but I am dumbfounded by the level of scrutiny you must have to put into this stuff to get the answers. Perhaps I’m being naive though. Maybe a quick Google of a few keywords is all it takes. 😉
Either way, well done for outing this jumped-up academic. I’m sure he knows his bricks from his mortar, right down to chemical composition, but as has been said already, it doesn’t make him an economics professor and it certainly doesn’t make him a reasonable member of an audience.
“if we are better together why aren’t we better together already?”
wraps it up in a nutshell job done vote yes.
Each to their own, it isn’t a crime but it is funny to call them out too.
But he’s pretending to be a DK here HS, in this live studio audience which begs the question, why is he going to these lengths of cunning stunt levels?
More chance of getting picked as a DK, better seats, better acoustic aka Dr Sheldon Cooper at the movies, or is he just a complete and utter bam?
Also, he’s been a BBC tv ref debate audience member before, last year in fact at Pacific Quay and a debate for teenagers or education, he wasn’t so finger jabbing but same vote No stuff, more hair too.
@Kalmar
I had forgotten about Joyce! She did make good points and she was enjoyable to listen to. The heckling of Yes questioners while they were trying to speak wasn’t very nice.
@Devorgilla – I think might be right but have identified a particular strain of academic thinking rather than that of an engineer. Engineers are generally very pragmatic people.
They’ll always have opinions on the “right” way to do something, but are rarely infected by a near religious hatred of other solutions like this chap seems to be.
@heedtracker
I wouldn’t be so sure he is posing as a Don’t Know. Check 22:35 in the iPlayer for the colour of bands of other No voters. I’m watching it again hoping to grab a screenshot of a Don’t Know arm band!
heedtracker
Playing the concerned neutral while all the while dripping slow poison is a long tradition on internet forums and debates. It can be an effective tactic if played infrequently and carefully. However most practitioners are easy to spot and easy to neutralise.
On the plus side, he isn’t as weird as Albie.
@ ErinT, He’s got a pink wristband on in the photos up there. And he’s a lot like Prof Adam Tomkins of Glasgow which makes you wonder how hard academia in Scotland’s being messed with
http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/
Adam is definitely not my Slovene girlfriend but has been on tv a lot more than Doc Arthur here.
So, according to the Herald Archie McPherson has come into the arena for NO alongside Darling and Brown. Well I’m sure that will make people sit up and think. Archie has always ben pretty good at blowing his own trumpet.
@Kalmar. Agree. His intellectual habitus is not all that is going on here.
I note that Brigadoon Gents favourite film is Dr Strangelove,another mad doctor.
On the plus side, he isn’t as weird as Albie. No One is HS and thats my girlfriend, so watch it.
Anyway Doc Arthur is hardly dripping slow poison. He’s trolling the whole debate and doesn’t give a damn who sees it. Maybe there’s reward enough with a No but think about the mindset of these guys and the why they are prepared to do everything possible to attack, heckle, piss on Scottish democracy debates.
And yes I think they are rewarded, maybe with money and maybe not.
@ janet w
im a postman janet and the no leaflets have been there since monday but we have 3 days to deliver them so i agree it is good timing on the bt side but it was the same with the yes leaflets..i dont think theres anything in it but to be honest nothing would surprise me with better together…the addresses on the no leaflets were so small some of our postmen just thought they were leaflets and were putting them through any door so most o them probably went in the bin lol
Have had to block him on Twitter because of his foul attitude. Think he posts on the Guardian as well, I mind his name because the things he says there are disgusting. Hope his employers are looking into this – it won’t do their reputation any good to be associated with this vile troll.
I see Dr. Arthur’s email address when you use the link to his name above though its not on this website per se.
Aye, he made sure he got more than his fair share of the sound bites and it was ridculous that he heckled another audience member, a young woman, while she was trying to make a valid point to the panel without him being dealt with by a steward or at least by James Cook.
I’m sure YES supporters wont rise to the obvious bait and be abusive on his email as this would be counter productive, though I wouldn’t be surprised if some devious agent provocatuer sets up an account to barrack him and portray him as a victim of cyber bullying. Ignore him, hes a rude, self opinionated bullying blaw hard and thats what he came across as.
How come this guy is getting on all these tv program’s then?
Who’s inviting him and letting him in?!?!?
Perhaps we should be asking Heriot-Watt University why the continue to employ this man.His actions are damaging to their reputation.
Brigadoongent says:
“It was great to meet Johann Lamont this evening. I was really impressed by her intellect & passion.”
Shit i just laughed so much I think I’ve coughed up a lung.
I see he’s another that definitely reads WoS as he has added Brigadoon Gent to twitter profile.
It wasn’t there before…
If it is generally considered good form to ignore trolls and to deprive them of publicity, why are we discussing the colour of this troll’s wristband, where he was sitting and his inane ramblings on social media?
Jim McIntosh says:
” Brigadoongent says: Johann Lamont… I was really impressed by her intellect & passion. ”
So he’s Scotlab. That explains the angry ill-mannered shouty behaviour, doesn’t it?
Dr. Scott Arthur is a very rude person. Like many other BT people they seem angry all the time.
An obnoxious person who I hope leaves Scotland after a YES vote.
O/T
I google “wings” at the office to come here. Tonight is the first time WOS has come out top of the search – above the band. Well done.
@Quenstin
I felt the same but can see in this case its for a comparison on BTs complaints about audience bias.
Best image is the thought of him sitting reading this thinking “OH LOOK ITS ME!” and then the pain of the forgetten man will strike soon enough.
At this rate the first show made by the Scottish Broadcasting Company could be Big Brother with former NO Thanks advocates.
He’s not a bully.
He’s an exhibitionist.
He is drawing attention to himself. He wishes he was on the panel.
His senior colleagues ought to be made aware that he is spending a lot of time using on the internet in different disguises.
Now that you’ve identified him his students will confront him next lecture.
Can we stop the “Does his work know?” style moaning, we’re so much better than that folks. Reminds me of Rangers fans asking Glasgow Uni to sack Jeanette Findlay for her daring to discuss the IRA on a Radio show.
Would you really want to live in a world where your work took such an interest in you, I think not.
Play the game, not the man, unless theyre an actual member of Labours high honcho brigade 🙂
Yeah I’d watch that.. Non-celebrity Big Brother featuring all the muppets from the No campaign.
Lamont, McDougall, Darling, Brown, Dugdale, Marra etc..
Or probably a better programme for them.. Would I Lie To You!!
If Dr Arthur is leading a double life as a No and a DK, it could be that he is leading a triple life as Paul, the patronising BT lady’s husband? Is she the hard pressed nurse?
GOing to but in but my work are promoting a booklet by the David Hume Institute which attempts to answer 16 Key Questions for the public about referendum impartially. Had a very quick scan. Not sure Any comments/thoughts welcome
http://www.davidhumeinstitute.com/images/stories/publications/other/Scotlands_Decision.pdf
Short preview of tonights YES ad…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Sf_jyMW4A
@Clootie
After the YES the No campaigners will be just like Labour after losing power at Holyrood. They will be in denial and while we all walk forward together regardless of political persuasion, they will stand around kicking at the dirt muttering and tutting away at each other about being robbed and how it just isnae right!
They’ll come around eventually, around the time when their kids and grandkids start talking about that lovely statue of Alex Salmond in George Square, Princes Street, Union Street and every High street in the land eventually.
lol he is a troll who forgot he was on TV and not in his safe little internet persona`s for that he deserves to be ridiculed cause hes an arse,when a troll thinks he can behave in real life the way he does online then its time to go see a shrink imo.
Just say no Doc put away the keyboard before you end up in a straight jacket and crash helmet lmao
Did that Daily mail article about BBC bias really say that they received 130 complaints?
The same BBC that said when it was directly asked how many complaints about bias it had received several months ago said that it did not keep any tally of how many complaints it receives?
@Stevie boy
brilliant
The shortest game show ever
Would I lie to You?
YES!
Join us next week for more of the same, goodnight!
Looks like the Prof has seen this and is and is trying to pretend like he was *always* like this, honest! https://twitter.com/BrigadoonGent/status/504667449749688323
@Chitterinlicht
“Which currency arrangement would an independent Scotland use?
Conclusion
As we approach the referendum it appears that we are heading towards the option of ‘dollarization’ almost by default and without the full consequences being considered. Yet ’dollarization’ is an option that the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group does not consider a ‘clear option for Scotland.’While introducing a new Scottish currency has serious transitional challenges, it may be the best option for a prosperous independent Scotland.”
Well, not quite true. Most Scots believe we are heading towards currency union, polls decisively show. This suggests Plan B will happen. Does this make it biased? Don’t know, but it seems inaccurate though.
O/T. BBC (Blatantly Biased Coverage) at it again yesterday on radio 4’s ‘World at One’. Lucy Adams, reporting on Monday’s debate, states that “a snap poll indicates almost two-thirds of people thought First Minister Alex Salmond the better performer”. Only “snap poll” I’m aware of was that by the Grauniad/ICM, which showed 71% of those polled as regarding the FM to have won. Since when was 71% “nearly two-thirds”, or was there another “snap poll” I haven’t heard of???
BBC L’iPlayer: (4 mins in) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f9r4t
@ Scunnered
Thanks just thought it was strange coming with my voting papers and telling me to get my postal ballot back today… no thanks must have been researching all postal voters to target this mailing with addressee.
YES from me 😀
@Stevie boy
Better Together Big Brother
George Galloway “Would you like me, to be the rat?”
Voiceover :
Tonight on Better Together Big brother!
The eviction has been cancelled after Anas jumped the wall and went to his daddys plantation in Pakistan.
Jim Murphy has lost the in-mates their alcohol after he kept standing on an irn bru gate and trying to talk to invisible people over the wall.
Johann Lamont is in the Diary Room, shes been in there for 4 hours asking to have a debate. Big Brother is astonished.
Kezia Dugdale refuses to take part in the “Accept the Yes vote” challenge. She says it wasnt in her contract and has told Big Brother to look it up.
John Curtice has taken a scientific poll of the Housemates and concluded they are 101% in denial.
I look forward to next years elections after independence for two reasons
1 To see how many current Labour msp’s stand as they believe we’re all doomed
and
2. To see how negative their campaigning will be!!
@highseastim
Its Westminster next year.
The 2016 Scottish Parliament general election is due to be held on Thursday 5 May 2016 to elect 129 members to the Scottish Parliament. It would be the fifth general election since the devolved parliament was established in 1999.
It is envisaged that the general election will still take place as scheduled if Scotland votes in favour of independence in 2014.
Folks, the next three weeks is going to be bloody, all the powers of the Union is going to be mobilised because of the unexpected unionist setback of Monday night. It will be desperate and nasty. The only way to counter this is seeing people face to face, door to door, meeting after meeting, and of course the erudite comments on social media. Keep spreading the word of hope, it’s time for change. No point in complaining about the BBC or this or that, makes no difference now, only winning does.
Desdimond: Can we stop the “Does his work know?”
It depends on the principles of his place of work. Is he bringing his educational institution into disrepute?
Speaking as a former lecturer, I suggest by his behaviour and his many identities, he is.
“Play the game not the man” you say, – erm, the layers of the onion ARE the onion. In this case he gained entry as an uncommitted voter. Clearly he lied.
ONLY Don’t Knows should make up the audience
GENUINE don’t knows !
OT: NHS for Wes on livestream at 7pm.
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/NHSForYes
@ dcanmore
youre right there is no point in moaning about the bbc anymore……but we all like a wee rant now and again so ill still be complaining about them…in fact i think ill still be complaining about them when they put me in the ground.
@Grouse Beater
Does he state “As a lecture at XYZ i hereby denouce the YES campaign?”. Course he doesnt. His job has nothing to do with any of this as far as Im concerned and I find it troubling that some folk would think to go there.
‘By his behaviour?’….oh come on, he without sin and all that.
The evidence presented above isnt even conclusive regard red-pink etc but even that has nothing to do with the mans professional life.
The best piece of advice my late father in law gave me was “Remember, everyones an arsehole sometime”. Its how we react to arseholes that matter.
from Craig Murray, former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, a very powerful statement, imploring people to vote yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIQ8VVn8AJA
The esteemed ‘Crash’ was indeed thought to be a child genius…by the majority of his peers…. ‘IN THE VILLAGE’
where there were in fact no idiots…Everybody took a turn
I’m not by nature normally a cruel man…BUT…HEY
Just saw the YES broadcast – brought a lump to the throat. I think it was brill.
@Dr Jim
“by the majority of his peers ….IN THE VILLAGE”
That’ll be a LOCAL genius for LOCAL people.
I’d advise everyone to watch the Craig Murray speech and show it to anyone they think will vote no or are undecided. See if their conscious gets the better of them!
I wonder if Wings can put it on their main page?
Westminister is shameful and disgusting!!!
Regarding the Yes add.. how come they didn’t have the elderly gentleman making his mind up over a game of dominoes or something?
The No camp would have lol!!! It is a 2 minute decision after all!!!
Great add by the way.
Jim McIntosh
i’ve got a lump in my throat watching the graig murray vid.
i am need of an antidote, can you, please post a link to the new yes add, if this possible.
Desdimond: His job has nothing to do with any of this
Oh, yes it does.
He is there under false pretences. You might not know him, but his students will. And senior colleagues might also ask some awkward questions, such as, ‘Why the subterfuge?’
It’s about honesty. And integrity. Remember those qualities?
Why he felt the need to heckle is a mystery.
The fact is, all lecturers sign a contract stating they will not bring their institution into desrepute.
here we go again…6.25 pm getting ready to watch the bbc news…blood pressure going up and its not even started yet…wheres my smokes
Wheres my smokes?
Chuckle.
We are so attuned to subtle and crass propaganda that it leaves us feeling impotent when faced by it on the telly so we shout at the screen. Waste of emotion, really. Better to find a more constructive release.
Cue some wag to suggest shout at the wife or kick the dog.
Jim McIntosh
seen it job done happiness restored.
@Stu 3.49 – Looks like he’s updated his twitter.
Dr Scott Arthur = Edinburger, University Lecturer, Father, Brother, CoS Elder, Runner, Cyclist, Son, Civil Engineer, BrigadoonGent, Scottish, British & Fifer!
He missed out pure fuc*in arsehole
The reason the BT lot are screaming bias is to divert attention from AD’s absolute implosion.
The Craig Murray video is shocking but I think most of us on the Yes side had a feeling they were that bad and it’s not just people abroad dying they don’t care about it’s people in the UK dying they also don’t give a shit about.
It’s a shocker to think we could be as bad as Germany pre war – remember the banality of evil – does anyone see it coming?
O/T I wore my Yes badge at the dentist today as I was hoping for questions but although everyone noticed it, there was complete silence including my own dentist who is normally very chatty.
I thought that clean was a bit rough – just kidding.
Oh to be in his first lecture after a no vote:
“Sir is there less sewage treatment now that BiterTogether’s shut down?
Tell us about the Westminster sewage system?
Did flushing the postal ballots nearly block the Scottish sewerage system, but wasn’t enough to win the vote?”
As intimated to Wings on twitter, Dr Arthur is an old friend of the Yes Edinburgh North and Leith Facebook site. Quite the most persistent and shape-shifting BetterTogether troll we ever had… An apologist for food banks and other social issues, and he could barely go 2 sentences without referencing or attacking the SNP (quite an obsession of his). As indulgent as we’ve been with all other UKOK trolls, we had to ban him at the start of the year when he deliberately and misleadingly misquoted Nicola Sturgeon from something she said at a public meeting we had. Arthur was utterly wrong, as the verbal transcript of the footage showed. I thought academia was underpinned by correct sourcing and use of facts … But when he was overtaken by rabid UKOK fanaticism these simple steps of verification went out the window in a referendum context. Not surprised in the least that he’s moved on to bully-boy shouting in public meetings. His ego seems to seek and enjoy growing public attention so let’s not be surprised to see him on the box again !
I am glad I was not there last night I would not have been able to contain myselfe ,even though I am now an old man I would have went over and thrown him out my anger would have given me the strength I do not agree with this nicey ,nicey approach how far do you think William Wallace would have got with that attitude ? Give it back to them in spades you know it is nice to be nice but it’s daft to be saft ,excuse my French but grow a pair. Vote yes
According to the Independent Newspaper:
“Britain would be poorer than all US states but one if it joined America
Take away the South-east and it would be poorest.”
What a legacy for the British Empire.
Paul Martin: I thought academia was underpinned by correct sourcing and use of facts …
It is expected, together with a rational, tolerant presentation of hypothesis and conclusions, at least went meant for public attention.
@ blair paterson
well said i agree…if i was there id have dragged him kickin and screaming right out of the hall,he would have been like a wee ventriloquist dummy…im not a violent man but it was just downright rude and arrogant.
@ grousebeater
i cant my wife and dog run out the room when they hear the news coming on lol…even the budgie pretends to be sleeping
Don’t suppose it matters, but before changing the name of the account to “Yes No Maybe” it was named “Charlie Dalrymple” who is a character from Brigadoon.
I was at the last of these debates in Inverness a couple of weeks ago. There were no wristbands nor any attempt at segregation. I wonder if this is a new policy from the BBC or just a one-off.
Whilst on the subject of multiple twitter accounts, I wonder which of our unionist pals is behind the false-flag @YestoScotland account?
Here’s my article on it.
I wonder if this is Doris from the Scotsman threads.
If so a complete fake…
There’s a debate at Dynamic Earth tonight; don’t know who’s speaking or refereeing though. Internet streamed rather than on telly.
The September issue of the free USA on-line magazine ‘Celtic Guide’ is out now. Note: it’s nothing to do with Celtic Football Club.
The American editor is a Yes supporter and this issue carries a couple of Yes ads. which he devised himself.
It’ll cheer him up mightily if some of us were to take a look at this magazine. Celtic Guide is also on Facebook.
Claims to be a cyclist.
I hope he’s one of those guys on a carbon fibre frame with a plastic hat and a surprised expression as I pass him on a folder while wearing Docs and a Trilby.
I was at the referendum debate on Tuesday 26th at Leith Acacemy. Clearly the BBC had had stick from BT because we were told that we would be seated in three blocks YES NO an Undecided. It was explained that this was so that the presenter could give fair air time to all. Dr Scott Arthur was definitely in the NO seating. The don’t knows who sat in the middle had pale pink wrist bands so pale they were almost white. Scott Arthur’s initial question was reasonable but he heckled the finance minister in a way which was way over the line. Those of us in the YES seating reacted strongly but he was allowed to continue. I noticed that the person holding the boom mike continued to hold it over his head and allow his barrage right up until the next phase of the programme. That really annoyed me. They have the power to shut somebody up who is out of order but don’t use it. Also it was recorded at 7pm so they could stop it at any time but they chose to let him shout and get a whole lot of airtime. Many of us as is usual in these audience participation programmes end up frustrated because there is never time for everyone to have their say. I was desperate to speak and yet he was allowed all this air time.
you probably didn’t hear the yessers at the meeting telling him to shoosht! … the mikes switched off the audience so we were muffled. Probably correctly as it didn’t add to the program. He only showed himself up for his bad manners and his side were portrayed in a bad light. (not that that bothers them)
To take a page out of Better Together’s book,
‘Say NAW to NO’.
The thing that amazes me with the likes of @BrigadoonGent and @DHothersall, is that they manage to trumpet their championing of Britannic neo-liberalism nigh-on all day, every day. Twitter appears to be some kind of obsession to them. I know I certainly wouldn’t employ either of them. Their productivity must be appalling.
Wow, powerful speech from Craig Murray who’s seen it from the inside and is deeply ashamed of the UK “rogue state”.
“It isn’t possible to be a decent person and vote no, and we shouldn’t be ashamed to say that. ”
Links as above from Fred blogger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIQ8VVn8AJA
In the early days of the referendum an old school chum of mine ‘friended’ me on Facebook. He immediately set about asking some questions about voting ‘yes’, but strangely, when I gave him pretty straight answers, he always responded with more, typically Bettertogether-type questions. He swore he was undecided.
Within a day or two his early veneer of ‘undecided’ slipped completely. A confirmed hardline No voter, always was and always will be. I unfriended him and have no idea why he even attempted the charade.
Garve,
What are you doing about organising oversight of postal vote counting and polling stations?
You are shown as our agent on the Highland council website and yet have made no contact here for volunteers.
Most of the agents are discussing it on off-topic.
AGREED
Grouse Beater says:
27 August, 2014 at 5:26 pm
He’s not a bully.
He’s an EXHIBITIONIST.(My caps)
He is drawing attention to himself. He wishes he was on the panel.
His senior colleagues ought to be made aware that he is spending a lot of time using on the internet in different disguises.
Now that you’ve identified him his students will confront him next lecture.
@ mchaggis
he was probably hoping to convert you
i bet the questions he asked you were
1 what currency will we use
2 what is your plan b
3 what if the oil runs out
its the same 3 questions all the time..they are like them wee dolls that used to be about in the 70,s where you pulled a string and it spoke to you with the same 3 sentences all the time
and them dolls used to blink a lot too
Those who deceive and mislead the Scottish people are being exposed during this period. It’s a time of great revelation for the nation as we can watch and listen.
They queue to tell us we can’t and we won’t.
Their habits and personalities are there for all to see and hear. And, as they scramble anxiously to be heard, they tell us who they really are and what they really think of us.
It is a time for us the Scottish people to listen and watch………carefully. Take time to observe their nervousness, anxiety and false positioning in their hope to deceive.
They have no dreams of a prosperous country, and they inform us of that with each word they speak, and with each pointed finger.
They would deny us everything and offer us nothing.
Vote YES and allow Scotland to prosper.
Capella
i was wary of posting it because i, perhaps we, are afraid of being branded scaremongers or this that or the other, as truth can be disturbing.
humanity should always be upset by this kind of thing.
it is the why we fight for a yes vote, a chance to change our world, and perhaps the world.
like you say it is the truth that we all know, we must act on it.
truth must be spoken, even though sometimes truth is a bitter pill, it is always positive.
Surely not a no voter lying. WoS have taken over news reporting. The current TV station simply copy the papers.
just had a brainwave
instead of ken and barbie im getting dolls made of johan and blinkey…you pull the cord at the back and they blink and say…whats your plan b…whats the number for dragons den….oh no thats on the bbc never mind
I once did some rather naughty drawings of my Ken and Barbie dolls in various (ahem) positions.
Having the two accounts and pretending in one to be neutral but still putting out the same pro-union message seems to be deliberate and calculated dishonesty to mislead innocent folk looking for info over the source and his personal interest in the debate from the start. Nothing wrong with him having an account that gives out a message for whatever side he chooses but why the pretence and misleading ways to do so?
The general rudeness he has displayed is baffling too. He really should know better than to do any of this. You can disagree and be civil with each other – lots do so every day…more flies with honey than vinegar, perhaps? Could do with a dose of that advice on the BT side in general. Anger and aggressiveness is a bad path.
Just noticed something on BBC Scotland decides programme where James Cook interviewing DP First Minister Nicola Sturgeon cheekily inferred she was only soliciting votes in Shetland by asking ‘How long have you been in government’? She replied politely.But it struck me ,if you asked the UK GOV the same question the only answer they could give would be something akin to when they were trying to kill them all, along with any other highland Scots with any property
Any islanders and highlanders should know what to do with UK lies and deceit,they’ve heard it before from their grannys and grandads and cousins
Alister Carmichael for ‘Lord of the Isles’
Do you think he suits red,trimmed with white
Can’t help the image , Alda and Jola in flagrante ,” No , NO , NAW ,We’re Better Together!!” but J can’t understand what’s going on and A just keeps pounding himself (and everybody who will listen).
Sorry Stu, watching some of the vid now, the vociferous Doc is definitely wearing a red wrist band.
A little way down the page of the link provided below to the Scott Arthur facebook page, There’s a photograph of Mr Arthur conversing with Johann Lamont, captioned:
” It was great to meet Johann Lamont this evening. I was really impressed by her intellect & passion.”
I must say I am taken aback by this. There is nothing I’ve seen in her performance in public life that evinces cognitive ability much greater than the median on the normal distribution.
Indeed, my sense of it is that she is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. She does of course shine brighter than Alistair Carmichael, but his is a minimum benchmark.
It occurs to me that Ms. Lamont might be happier with the LibDems than Labour. And the added benefit is She could change parties thereby raising the average IQ of both. Surely an equitable trade.
https://archive.today/VgnyC#selection-3911.0-3911.99
At the meeting in St Andrews last night I heard someone mention something about Dan Snow the leader of the 200 celebs trying to persuade us to vote no.
I checked this out tonight.
It turns out that Dan Snow’s Father-in-Law is none other than The Duke of Westminster one of the big if not the biggest landowners in the UK.
Do you think Snow’s campaign has a self-centered reason.
If you look at his twitter feed, he just seems to retweet – has he ever had an original thought?
We in Edinburgh Pentlands delight in putting our material through this Britnat’s letterbox.
Rest assured that in the remaining 3 weeks we will ensure he gets plenty more.
Better to be informed than just opinionated. Eh, Scott?
He has a picture of Annie Lennox on his page in music section, looks like he likes her.
Does he know Annie Lennox is a YES supporter?
Jon D you are a very naughty boy 🙂 (smiley thingbob).
How embarrassed he is going to be going back to face his students! I hope every lecture room he lectures in has a pre-written on the board, ‘YES, NO, Maybe’…. As undecided as, well, say, that ‘bayonet the wounded’ trougher labour MP. I hope this unethical man, (lacking all integrity), has students who will never let him forget his hypocritical skullduggery.His arrogant sense of entitlement is palpable.
@crisicult
“I guess there are people on both sides who pose as ‘don’t knows’ to see if it affects the types of responses they get,”
Hmmm, don’t know about that. I tried it once some years and felt so dirty afterwards, more than that, self-violated, that I would never do it again.
I think it takes a special kind of personality, the kind that can set their moral faculty to one side.
And I do believe there are far fewer to them in the pound on the Yes side than on the No side. It may be related to lying I think.
of them
Ha!
I used to work at Heriot-Watt and recognize Dr Arthur. I never had any dealings with him, so I can’t say what he’s like in person. Funny that he should become so famous thanks to Wings though. Well done!
The bracelet looks more red than pink to me and from the above comments it looks like the ‘false don’t know’ angle is a bit shaky.
However, being exposed as a rude Mr Shouty Troll is fair enough.
Let’s hope the 19th September is a very bad day for him.
@James
“He has a picture of Annie Lennox on his page in music section, looks like he likes her.
Does he know Annie Lennox is a YES supporter?”
Thanks for giving me an in for the wee Quiz I made up tonight from the celeb. section of the window ‘TV’ loop we run in our Yes shop window in Kirrie. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otxPJDHOVx8&list=UUyH07ex_4MHdleIjCDwSDGQ
Hmm…Dr Arthur sounds a wee bit like someone else we’ve had on Wings over the past wee while – someone who goes on and on about the SNP and was very critical of Nicola Sturgeon. Just trying to remember what he called himself of late. I
@Chic McGregor says:
27 August, 2014 at 11:03 pm
“I guess there are people on both sides who pose as ‘don’t knows’ to see if it affects the types of responses they get,”
=================
Last weekend Gordon Broon and Curran were at Beath High School in Cowdenbeath. I looked to see about going but noticed you had to book a ticket.
I got the impression from that that they probably didn’t want any yes people there. I don’t know if that is the norm with the BT meetings?
Jeanie
I believe that could be George Laird. Seriously strange and creepy obsession with Nicola Sturgeon in particular. but also makes some wild claims. One to be avoided.
You know I think it’s better to forget Scott Arthur. Arrogant attention seekers like him, I find, tend to put more people off than they inspire.
I thought the presenters question to Lamont was a peach. -‘So if you’ve been fighting poverty your entire political career, and there are a million people living in poverty, doesn’t that mean your political career has been a failure?
I thought Joyce McMillan? was really good. She would be an asset for the Yes campaign. Is she out and about speaking at meetings?
It was interesting to see Darling and Brown on stage together. What I didn’t realise was that the guy who was shouting at them and had to be ejected was a Labour supporter.
Brown’s body language was interesting as he made the shape of a hole with his fingers. What was that all about? Did it signify the black hole in the UK economy that the two of them created? Were they back to discussing the good old days?
On the matter of George Laird. He has been around for a while and had issues with Glasgow Uni over some personal matter, but went on about it in public comments ad infinitum until the other posters got fed up with him.
Outsourcing giant Serco is embroiled in a fresh misuse of public funds scandal after a company it set up overcharged [English] NHS hospitals millions of pounds…
(According to the independent Newspaper).
All credit to you for ferreting out the truth on this. Things are rarely what they seem. My eyes are becoming more opened, if that’s possible. Not only the power of the internet makes this possible but the fact people are actually paying attention! Every Question Time, every interview or political piece – all of it manipulated, rigged, falsified or edited beyond recognition. They’ve been getting away with it for years, we haven’t had the internet or the interest to check!
I personally knew Scott Arthur at Abertay in 1987/88. He was a committed Labour supporter and rabid anti SNP. First time I’d heard the “Tartan Tories” rant was from him – he really does hate the SNP big time. If he did go on as undecided I’d find that hard to believe.
@James Caithness
No, don’t think so; I’ve been to a couple of Lib-Dem sponsored meetings where your standpoint wasn’t questioned beforehand. That might not be the case for all of them, though.
If anyone undecided listened to radio Scotland at 0710 this
Morning and the interview with Eddie Bone (campaign for an English
Parliament) then surely they must realise now where to put their
Cross on the ballot paper .
There was a smugness about the guy representing the 133 businesses who was in the STV studios last night. As the other business man, who was putting the case for YES was speaking, this gent was grinning as though he did not understand the seriousness of the situation, or that he wasn’t that bothered anyway. Your life in their hands. No way!
Around the same time, the posh speaking lady in The BBC studio was having an uphill struggle to persuade me and I suspect many thousands of others. She was smug too as she put the case for the 133 companies. She was the wrong person to be in Scotland trying to make their case.
Sec of State preparing his seat in the YES lifeboat. Women, children & Libdems first.
He’s wanting a seat on the the FM negotiating team. Aye right!
The mouthy lecturer in the audience may have designs on a Labour Party top post …..lord of Kirkcaldy perhaps. He would be better discussing / studying Darling’s privatisation involvement
With the NHS. Mr Swinney answered the barrow boy with commendable patience.
Usual Sherlock like detective work Rev Stu. Well done.
I was not impressed with this person’s method of “questioning”. My first thoughts were that this guy NEEDS a doctor.
Jomumm Lummum played bait and switch with this audience placement.
Charles Kennedy was hammered and wittered meaninglessly.
John Swinney has right on his side, and needs to start delivering with conviction.
I thank you.