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Wings Over Scotland

No lights in the window

Posted on August 27, 2014 by

Here’s “Better Together” chief Blair McDougall in today’s Herald:

“Launching the [#PatronisingBTLady] video yesterday, Better Together campaign director Blair McDougall said: ‘The key factor for people isn’t the love of our country – as both Yes and No voters love Scotland. The key factor is the love of our families.’

Let’s just read that through again. He’s saying that his campaign can’t use “love of our country” as a campaign weapon because people on both sides love their country. So instead he’s going to use “love of our families” as a distinguishing characteristic.

The only possible conclusion that can be drawn from those statements is that Yes supporters don’t love their families. It’s a bold gambit, we’ll give him that.


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  1. 27 08 14 19:01

    No lights in the window | Scottish Independence News

356 to “No lights in the window”

  1. desimond says:

    Thats just WORKING Families i assume?

  2. Joseph says:

    Desperation causes mistakes, clearly hes had too many whiskys.

  3. heedtracker says:

    Actuallly old Ten Bellies up there may have a point, I could cheerfully throttle mine sometimes:D
    Also, its mutual.

  4. Seasick Dave says:

    And as long as the families have no foreign members.

  5. Marco McGinty says:

    He has provided some of BT’s most imbecilic statements, but he appears to be trying to outdo himself. Well done, Blair, another few votes for Yes!

  6. Marcia says:

    In contrast to the rather negative BT video. Yes Scotland is far too positive for the No camp. They thrive on misery. 🙂

  7. UncleBob says:

    Not just Working families, no, they must be HARD Working Families according to politicians.

  8. PeeGee says:

    Does he not know that you can buy shirts with collars over 20 inches?

  9. callum says:

    “As you walk out of the voting booth, you are saying with your vote that you do not one of two countries to exist in their current form. Voting no says that you do not wish Scotland to be a country. Voting yes means that the UK will cease to exist in its current form.

    How can you vote no and love your country when you are voting for it not to exist?”

    Quote from Bruce Fummey, Scotlands premier afro-celt comedian.

  10. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh says:

    I see Blair describes himself as a “Keir Hardie buff” on his Twitter account. He must have a sense of humour.

  11. James Sneddon says:

    Accusing half a country of not loving their families is a bold move indeed from the fat, drunken, sexist bastard.

  12. Seasick Dave says:

    We love our families so much we are going to subject them to the worst austerity measures in history.

  13. Paula Rose says:

    He means families that have no-one who is –

    pre-school, at school, in further education, unemployed, disabled, homeless, on low pay, looking for a future, elderly, ill, wants an independent life and likes being responsible, and definitely no foreigners.

  14. Juteman says:

    His name will go down in infamy, along with many others.
    A London resident that took the UK gold to come back north to try and sell his country. Burns said it better, so i won’t attempt any fancy words.
    A truly repulsive and evil person. I wonder how he sleeps at night.

  15. desimond says:

    There was a great Tweet the other night

    I look forward to my great grand-kids looking up our Family Tree and beside my name it simply says:

    Theres your family thought right there!

  16. Marcia says:

    I forgot to say the video link in my post above is tonight’s Referendum Broadcast on BBC and ITV.

  17. Jim Bo says:

    It’s love of my family that first switched me to Yes well over a year ago. It boils my blood when the ConDem / Labour drones speak of families. It’s their draconian immigration rules that have kept my family seperated for over 1.5 years now, thus forcing me to move away from my native Scotland.
    They should be ashamed!

  18. Nana Smith says:


    I’m all emotional after seeing the ad.

  19. john ferguson says:

    When is a country worth fighting for and when is one not. What makes a country worth fighting for and one not? Is Scotland worth fighting for? or no.

  20. Andy Nimmo says:

    Someone should rewrite the old Peter Paul and Mary song

    ‘Where will all the con men go
    To the House of Lords every one
    When will they ever learn’

    Maybe Wings could run a competition for the best new lyrics
    50 copies of the Wee Blue Book to the winner

  21. Mike says:

    It’s funny, ever since I started supporting Yes I’ve found myself hating my family. I can’t go a day without shouting abuse at my mum and telling my auntie how much I loath her…. I used to be such a nice person before!

  22. Quentin Quale says:

    Monday saw Darling destroying the cornerstone of the BT campaign, yesterday witnessed Patronising BT going viral, now this. You’re running some campaign, big man.

  23. Grouse Beater says:

    The No campaign hs reached the level of ‘bottomless pit.’

  24. David McCormack says:

    A face only a mother could love.

  25. Ken says:

    Hmm, I was wandering along Princes Street, Edinburgh, yesterday and saw a bloke handing out No leaflets. As I wandered past I head him say: “Vote No to dividing families.”

    Now, his leaflets were B&W photocopies of pure text, which suggests that this line of loving families and not wanting them divided is something that BT pulled out of its bum the night before.

    Getting nervous, aren’t they?

  26. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    It is neuro linguistic programming gibberish.

    It means SFA but is designed to trigger emotions and positivity. Family love and for are all there but in the wrong order. Nobody can object to these words.

    Just like the Sky slogan

    Believe in better.

    Better what? Anything you want and aspire to, only this times you have to buy the Sky channels to be fulfilled.

  27. Paula Rose says:

    Perhaps he means that even though No voters want to ruin their families’ future they still love them?

  28. Robert Peffers says:

    @Joseph says: 27 August, 2014 at 6:06 pm:

    “Desperation causes mistakes, clearly hes had too many whiskys.”

    Now I’m certainly biased but I’d say it is more like he has too few braincells. No! Wait! That cannot be true for have we not all got, more or less, the same number of brain cells? So perhaps far too many whiskys in the past have destroyed some or he’s just not using the brain cells he was originally born with.

  29. joe kane says:

    U-KOK tough love for hard-working families –
    Although the UK is the seventh richest country in the world, it is also deeply unequal, and millions of families across the UK are living below the breadline.
    Below the Breadline: The relentless rise of food poverty in Britain
    Oxfam June 2014

  30. Kenny Campbell says:

    That U Kok thing is like something from the Daily Mash. The campaign looks like a joke from top to bottom

  31. Grouse Beater says:

    McCormack: A face only a mother could love.

    Wonderful! The old ones are the best.

    The South City Mob grousebeater.wordpress

  32. joe kane says:

    When you read headlines like these just remember Scottish Labour are to the right of the Tories on welfare spending and related policies such as welfare for immigrants (so much for the haters of Panama and their international socialism) –
    Tories Finally Admit that their Welfare Reforms are linked to the rise of Foodbank use
    A Working Class Man

  33. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    In quiet moments when lying on his reinforced bed in the middle of the night he must surely know his behaviour has made him the most hated man in scotland. Despicable pathalogical liar.

  34. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    Further to my above, what he is saying is more or less what the old snake oil salesmen use

    Mention diphtheria, impotence, the clap and every other disease you can think of and then produce the tried and medically approved elixir, being careful not to say it will cure anything, just associate with curing and diseases.

  35. Murray McCallum says:

    I hope Blair McDougall doesn’t drink before he sets off with his mechanical excavator – digging holes to put his campaign in.

    They are actually paying people to come up with these phrases.

  36. Robert Peffers says:

    Grouse Beater says: 27 August, 2014 at 6:26 pm:

    “The No campaign hs reached the level of ‘bottomless pit.’”

    Did you perhaps mean, “A pitiless bottom”, Grouse Beater?

  37. Elizabeth says:

    Just saw Theresa May on channel4 news wearing a ‘No Thanks’ badge

  38. galamcennalath says:

    Marcia says:
    In contrast to the rather negative BT video. Yes Scotland is far too positive for the No camp. They thrive on misery.
    … and it is a huge contrast. Re the family comment above versus the Yes ad.

    The ad was great!

    Holding the line and staying positive has been the hallmark of YesScotland during this campaign. There are so many times when I feel Yes should get its hand dirty and go negative. But then I see relentless positivity in action and feel good, feel proud.

    Take the Salmond/Darling debate. A audience member asked about the rifts in society this referendum has cause. Darling answered first and said the campaign had degenerated recently. Salmond said he disagreed and felt it was lively but good natured with meetings across the country. A rosy view perhaps, but shiningly positive in the face of dreadful negativity!

  39. silver19 says:

    Unedited video of that great protestor at the (F)ailed (U)seless (C)hancellors (U)nited (S)peeches) in Dundee today.

    Thanks BBC:-

  40. HandandShrimp says:

    Presumably he is suggesting that Yes supporters don’t love their families. As I recall it was Better Together that suggested our children were Hitler Youth.

    I think they are either confused and desperate or a complete shower of bastards.

    Jury is out.

  41. Dunphail says:

    I think we should lay off Blair he’s obviously had too much on his plate

  42. Grouse Beater says:

    A pitiless bottom”

    A character in ‘A Midsummer Night’s Dream’?

  43. Roll_On_2014 says:

    ’Patronising’ Better Together ad campaign takes internet roasting

    I note that there has been a bit of a backlash across the social media about this vid.

    Some nice pictures in the piece


    Breaking news:

    The Duke of Wellington comes out for Indy.

  44. horacesaysyes says:

    I haven’t click on the link yet, but I’m sure the journalist questioned him on this claim that us Yes voters don’t love our families.

    The did, didn’t they?


  45. Blair paterson says:

    Pee gee are those shirt collars would need to be brass proof Vote yes

  46. John Young says:

    Chris Law and his wonderful ‘Spirit of Independence’ were in a very sunny Kirkcudbright today and were made very welcome by many folk in a part of Scotland where Yes could be perceived to be a hard sell. The local folk and many visitors who saw (talked with) him will go home and start many positive conversations. Highlights of this visit
    1) Father George Thomson (age 87) who became MP for the SNP in 1974, 40 yrs ago this year, against the Tory norm at that time, meeting and being interviewed by Chris.
    2) Richard Lockhead MSP, cabinet member for Rural Affairs addressing the crowd before going to meet local fishermen who have had a really hard winter, many struggled through on Family Benefit.
    3) When he came back with Aileen Mcleod MSP she said lots of things to follow up but they will all be voting Yes even the shoutey one I thought might be a No.
    4) Meeting a couple from Eskdalemuir who had travelled for over 2 hours to be at this event.
    5) Meeting a 15yr old from Kirkcudbright Academy who misses the vote by 6 months who has started a facebook page KbtAcademy4Yes give him a like please.
    6) Seeing two of our Grandchildren being taken to their primary on the Spirit, some school run eh.

    If you wish to see some photos of this great day please go to YesKirkcudbright on facebook

    Not my site by the way but you Wingers may see some weans you recognise.

  47. Grouse Beater says:

    Politicians, torturers, and hangmen do their best when the human spirit is at its lowest ebb.

    There is no way, there never was a way, the Yes campaign would fall into dispondency and despair.

    Yes is perpetually driven by expectation and hope.

  48. Juteman says:

    “Just saw Theresa May on channel4 news wearing a ‘No Thanks’ badge”

    Superb! The more the merrier!

  49. donald anderson says:

    Fat basturt gets his photie took.

  50. Minty says:

    My friends are a hard working couple. Do good work for charity, law abiding, tax paying, model citizens. Except my friend’s wife is originally from a non EU country. She’s been here since she graduated over 15 years ago, working and paying tax. So the UKBA have refused her a visa renewal and want to kick her out. MSP can’t help as its a devolved issue.

    Luckily, all their family in Scotland have decided to vote yes. So families do indeed matter.

  51. Drew Peacock says:

    I found the next part from McDougall interesting too…

    “The words spoken in the film are taken verbatim from conversations on doorsteps with undecided women voters and from the opinion of women in dozens of focus groups around the country.”

    So not only are they patronising the women of Scotland.
    He is actually blaming them for this pish too.

  52. Harry McAye says:

    I loved that broadcast. Now this is as completely off topic as it can be but the older actor in it is Andrew Dallmeyer, a well known Scottish actor and writer. I remember a lovely film he was in, made just for the BBC, in 1988 called Shadow On The Earth. It was set I think in a small East Lothian village and featured two young boys who believed their albino neighbour(Dallmeyer) was actually an alien. I would love to see it again but as far as I know it’s never been repeated or released on video or dvd. Hoping someone reading this may be in the know, it was a really wonderful film but I can remember very little about it.

  53. heedtracker says:

    Just showing off my postal vote at work the now and telling everyone to put your X in the YES box and no voter complained to the management by phone that I am using it to make people vote YES. My boss is YES so fcuk knows what they expect to happen.

  54. Lanarkist says:

    Marcia, thanks for that preview of the Referendum Broadcast, it fair lifted me up! Spent this morning help kit out the new Yes NEFife wagon, it’s called i-Van! Starts touring round NEFife from 28th August till 18th September. Keep an eye out for it!
    Also received some copies of WBB to pass out, Stu, great job! Just getting delivery of them lifts everyone’s spirit!
    We can seriously pull this one off!
    Loved Paw Broon getting an ear full from Dundee Labour Member today, things are moving rapidly now. Tories, now Labour unwelcome amongst the population. They have been found wanting!

  55. Dcanmore says:

    Now that their plan A, B, C and D (economy, oil, borders and currency) are all deid in the water, UKOK/NO Thanks will be going after families. This is now personal, they will try to reach out to every voter in one mass campaign, last throw of the dice from Tuba.

    Looks like the English papers are asking anyone with a Scottish connection for their views on the referendum (and printing the desired reaction of course). I had to laugh at tonight’s London Evening Standard when they asked touring David Byrne (ex Talking Heads born in Dumbarton, left aged 2), he said he wished Scotland to stay in the UK as he thought full independence was a step too much for Scotland to handle. He has dual citizenship. It was a piece generally about his tour, about 250 words long and that was the only mention of the referendum. Naturally the paper went with a front page exclusive ‘David Byrne rocks independence debate’ is the punchy headline. Once again hyperbole methinks, just like David Bowie’s ‘huge, massive’ intervention but not really.

  56. Nana Smith says:

    @Harry McAye

    Type it into google and you get a link to

    May help you get a dvd or download.

  57. Luigi says:

    Blair McDougall is a Class A Hole.

  58. SquareHaggis says:

    Interesting take on the NAW 130

  59. Quentin Quale says:

    Of course Byrne would back No – he even wrote a song for them. The Road to Nowhere.

  60. boris2 says:

    An Independent Scotland would rate a Higher Human Development Index (HDI) than the rest of rUK

    The Human Development Index is a composite statistic of life expectancy, education, and income indices used to rank countries into four tiers of human development. A newly independent Scotland would have a better Human Development Index (HDI) than the rest of the UK, even without oil, a leading international finance company has said. A report by Credit Suisse has concluded that on key areas of life expectancy, education, and income a newly independent Scotland would be ranked higher than the rest of the United Kingdom. According to the report’s authors, an independent Scotland would be ranked four places higher than the rUK. The report said:

    1. “Scotland would rank 23rd if we include a geographical allocation to Scotland’s GNI [Gross National Income] related to the North Sea oil output, versus the current 27th place for the UK and the hypothetical 30th for rUK. Note that even excluding any allocation of oil output, Scotland would still rank ahead of the UK, but just so.”

    2. The Credit Suisse report ‘The Success of Small Countries,’ compared the success of small countries with that of larger nations. It said: “Small countries are more homogeneous and homogeneity plays an important role in determining the success of a country. Cultural, ethnic, religious and linguistic diversity creates a ceiling to the potential size of a country. Homogeneous countries tend to have higher HDI scores. “We also found that small countries are more open to international trade or have embraced globalization to a higher extent than larger countries.” Despite warning that “small countries are more open to international trade or have embraced globalization to a higher extent than larger countries”, the report also said that “small countries are successful and in general better off than bigger countries.”

    3. The report also cast doubt on claims that public services in larger countries benefit from ‘pooling resources’ and the ‘economies of scale’.
    The authors said: “Our research shows that large countries tend to have higher tax rates for individuals (by 5%). So the cost of funding public services for the individual is higher in larger countries than in small countries.”

    4. Speaking on BBC Good Morning Scotland, Michael O’Sullivan from the Credit Suisse Research Institute also explained small countries are one of the “leading geo-political trends of the last fifty years.”

    The report and comments were welcomed by SNP Treasury spokesperson Stewart Hosie MP who said the findings highlighted Scotland’s potential to flourish under independence. Commenting, Mr Hosie said: “These comments are very welcome. Using academic data, the report sets out Scotland’s potential and how our development rating would outperform the UK- even without oil- following a Yes vote. “The report also found that smaller countries are better able to ‘effectively’ and ‘cheaply’ deliver public services, and most of the small countries mentioned do not have nearly as many of the resources we have here in Scotland. “This highlights once again that Scotland is perfectly positioned to flourish as an independent nation. We would be able to concentrate on our talents, grow our economy and build a better and fairer society following a Yes vote.”

  61. mr thms says:

    some great gags in this link…

    “Patronising Better Together Lady” Is The New Meme For Scottish Nationalists

    A TV broadcast playing on women’s fears of an independent Scotland has been hijacked.”

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  62. The Rough Bounds says:

    @John Young. 7.18.

    It’s not Lockhead John, it’s LOCHhead. We mustn’t start using BBC pronunciation.

  63. Andy-B says:

    Talking of bold gambits I wonder if the CBI will break the law tomorrow night at David Cameron’s, fancy dinner party, with regards to “Campaign donations.”

    Its said to many big wigs and business men have been invited.

  64. John Young says:

    The Rough Bounds oops sorry and here’s me from the Highlands as well, any edit function available

  65. Elizabeth says:

    O/t I saw this on Facebook – from the great Iain Hamilton QC

    “Do you realise just how foolish the UK looks?
    The people of Scotland aren’t fighting for a political cause — they’re fighting for national existence, and against Britain’s ruling elite”

    “Those who watched two politicians arguing on telly about my country’s future will have got it all wrong. They made it look like a party-political brawl. It’s not.
    We Scots who fight for Yes are fighting for our national existence. It has little to do with politics. Hardly any of us belong to the Scottish National Party. From the nooks and glens of my country has emerged a storm corps whose members have never taken part in politics. They are not the SNP. They are the people of Scotland.

    You will find us fighting on the web in numbers unimaginable to the pollsters. Canvassers are knocking at the doors in the housing schemes. The rustle in the heather which was the SNP has become the soaring anthem of a people awakening from a long sleep. When we awake we will walk away from you.

    You may wonder why. I will tell you: we are repeatedly ruled by governments we do not elect. We currently have more pandas than Tory MPs. Ordinary English people will be on our side. It’s the toffs who make the UK look so silly.

    Do you realise just how foolish the UK looks? You strut like a world power and have a navy with a huge aircraft carrier and no planes to land on it. We laugh at you with the rest of the world, but at the same time we remember that a quarter of our population lives in poverty; and all you can promise us if we vote for you is more poverty for this rich country of Scotland.

    Your leaders are not even good at government. In my lifetime you have bankrupted the UK three times and had to beg for help. You didn’t beg from us. You just took.

    Now these days are over. The pound has started to slide even at the threat of Scotland leaving.

    But although we are leaving you we will remain your friends. Most of England is in the same state as us Scots. We are the lucky ones. We have a parachute. Watch this space.”

    Ian Hamilton QC is a lawyer and prominent Scottish nationalist

  66. The Rough Bounds says:

    @John Young. (Iain Og)

    No way to edit that I can see, but perhaps I’m wrong.

    I’ve made a few gaffes too.

  67. Taranaich says:

    Hello folks, if I can hijack the thread for a second: does anyone know anything about the future of DWP jobs in the event of a Yes vote? I have the White Paper of course, but is there anything more than that, particularly from the UK government?

  68. Harry McAye says:

    Nana, thanks I was on that page but didn’t see anything that would suggest it was attainable.

  69. schrodinger's cat says:

    saw a brilliant quote on social media
    “vote Yes……I’m not saying it will be easy…….I’m saying it will be worth it”

  70. Oui Things says:

    I was talking to my 2 year old daughter about what she wanted to be when she grows up.

    Turns out she wants to be like Eilidh Child and be an athlete. I’m sure that’ll change a million times in the next two years.

    I’m not disappointed that she didn’t want to follow her dad into a series of shitty jobs, whilst her granddad gave up on the lack of opportunities and emigrate to Australia.

    It’s because of my love for my daughter that i’m praying for a Yes vote. So she doesn’t have to leave Scotland for a decent future.

    On that note Blair MacDougal can go and fuck himself.

  71. muttley79 says:


    Just saw Theresa May on channel4 news wearing a ‘No Thanks’ badge.

    We may as well give up now then… 😀 😀

  72. schrodinger's cat says:

    watched bbc referendum program about psi ops……interestingly, it would appear that bt is following the quebec referendum tactics very closely. in the last few days they flew in loads of canadians in a public love bomb of quebec
    i wouldnt put it past bt to do the same thing

    however, someone else is already planning a similar love fest, the orange order. the bt crowd and the bbc are distancing themselves from this, they only want cuddly images of bairns with union jacks. we should ensure that everyone in yes with an iphone, and know how to up load to youtube is in edinburgh that day, not to antagonise, just to ensure that these images are available to everyone on social media. we cannot allow the airwaves of msm to be showing only cute teddy bears in union jack t shirts in front of the castle

    save this link and make sure this video is trending on twitter and facebook in the same week

  73. Ken500 says:

    Love everyone’s family

    No food banks. Vote YES

  74. bookie from hell says:

    BT–said NO THANKS to that infamous mori poll


  75. Marcia says:

    Yes declarations still flooding in. If you hand out these cards you may want to advise anyone who has moved within the last year to put their old address on to enable us to amend our records and they should apply for a postal vote if they need it and get it back to the local Electoral Registration Office by 3rd September at 5pm. They can download the form from the local council ERO website.

    p.s ask them to write neatly so we old folk processing the cards don’t have to struggle trying to decipher some of the handwriting. 🙂

  76. liz says:

    @schrodinger’s cat- fortunately I think Scots don’t fall for all ‘please stay we love you’, we can smell BS at 100 paces.

    Plus there have been too many threats to go back now.

  77. boris2 says:

    Interest bill on UK’s £1.27 trillion debt to hit £1bn a week

    The Uk taxpayer is forking out £1billion every week !!!! yes £1billion a week!!! just to pay off interest on the largest debt of any country in the world, (£1.3 trillion and rising). I hope Scotland goes for plan B but tying the currency to the $US

  78. Kenny Campbell says:

    “Just saw Theresa May on channel4 news wearing a ‘No Thanks’ badge”

    I suspect Mrs May would do more damage to YES campaign by wearing a YES badge rather than a NOThanks one. Anyway I thought it was just for the Scots…Did she just but a Mews in Edinburgh ? Do we get a debate from Cameron now ?

  79. laukat says:

    o/t – is the #PatronisingBTLady the ‘Subway moment’ of the independence campaign?

  80. @schrodinger’s cat

    I remember that programme when it first came out. Billy Connolly is in it.

    September 13th in Edinburgh the Orange Order followers or better to say hangers on, can’t help themselves from getting drunk and causing trouble with fighting generally among themselves.

  81. Croompenstein says:

    Holy Jesus I had to go out for a walk earlier to clear my head after watching Disreporting Scotland. They were reporting on homeless folk registering to vote and they spoke to a woman called Kirsty who says we can’t afford it without England! I despair, they have brainwashed the disenfranchised FFS.

    Yeh Kirsty we can’t afford to have the biggest concentration of nuclear bombs right next to our densest population centre.

    And we can’t afford to have welfare policies designed for the South-East of England to be foisted upon Scotland like the bedroom tax.

    And we can’t afford to have retirement age based on the South-East as our life expectancy isn’t as high so why should we have to work longer to get less back.

    And we really can’t afford to keep subsidising Infrastructure projects in the South of England while our own infrastructure is neglected

    starts at 14:00 watch and weep

  82. galamcennalath says:

    Their one liners are just nonsense. Patter, like wahter. Families, next thing they’ll be talking about ‘family of nations’.

    Better Together! When, who, how? Pure fiction.

    UKOK! What do they consider is OK about the UK? Not much that I can see.

    No Thanks! I agree on this one. UK, No Thanks, they can have it.

  83. Nana Smith says:

    Tweet by Blair Mcdougal 17mins ago. I managed to snip the image of the tweet but I can’t post the it here so I’ve copied the text.

    bliarmcdougall ?@bliarmcdougall · 17 mins
    Personally I wouldnt allow women into bettertogether meeting but who else is going to bake cakes n make coffee. #PatronisingBTLady

  84. PeeGee says:

    The former Prime Mentalist actually mentions the 130 business leaders in his introductory speech before attacking the SNP as only benefiting business in an Independent Scotland. And still we have the paid Scotland destroyers ranting about how wonderful he was so vote No.

    In more enlightened countries he’d have been sectioned decades ago to protect the innocent.

  85. BB says:

    He never seems to be very happy, that fella.

  86. schrodinger's cat says:

    @ liz
    we dont need to do anything other than insure these images of 12000 oo men are seen. bbc wont show them
    you only speak for you and I. many folk are duped by the bbc propaganda. the polls show we are losing. social media is all we have. lets make use of it.

  87. Devereux says:

    O/T but bit of an emergency. Anyone on Wings got a link for that great photograph of Nicola Sturgeon walking through the church to a huge crowd……printed front page of a newspaper three weeks or so ago? Much appreciated – love and hugs from a fragile member of the gentle sex, with a brain, and a family……..etc etc etc……

  88. boris2 says:

    Welfare to Work – Use of External Contractors

    In order to deliver our commissioning future welfare to work policy objectives as efficiently and effectively as possible we need to broaden our thinking and look to develop new ways of commissioning. Large scale prime contracting enables us to meet the challenge of delivering efficient services at large scale and still has a place within the DWP commissioning landscape.

    However, to get full value from our specialist providers and realise the potential of social investment, we recognise the need to commission using a range of different approaches, in particular when delivering support to those furthest from the labour market. We will embrace the range of approaches available to us including the continued testing of innovative approaches, using the findings to inform future commissioning.

    Seems to me we are addressing the demise of the Job Centres. I expect amy thousands of civil service jobs will be shed throughout the UK and Scotland. The, “new Way” will be commissioning of private companies to taking over the task of assessing, training and managing the unemployed back to work. The bulk of the work will be completed on-line with little face to face contact, perhaps other than an initial interview. Payment and suspension of benefits will be the responsibility of the contractor, (within rules provided by the DWP). Interesting time ahead. Bit of a rollercoaster this one. I am just glad I’m well out of it. But I do worry about the fate of the unemployed. These new providers are not in it to do good. They will make a profit off the backs of the unemployed. I expect if it will be a case of 3 strikes and out.

  89. Disco Dave says:

    If #patronisingbtlady is based on real life mothers I sense a few paternity tests in the offing. Weren’t Focus Groups soooo late 90’s early naughties? As long as Blair is happy we can all rejoice…

  90. schrodinger's cat says:

    September 13th in Edinburgh the Orange Order followers or better to say hangers on, can’t help themselves from getting drunk and causing trouble with fighting generally among themselves

    lets make sure the people of scotland see it happen, otherwise all they will see is emergency kittens in union jack t shirts in front of edinburgh castle
    bt dont want the oo to parade, we should make sure that everyone sees them.
    is it negative to show the opposition… campaigning?
    whether lamont likes it or not, the bnp and the OO are part of the BT campaign. why should we ignore them because lamont, brown and darling say so?

  91. Edulis says:

    I do apologise to the world at large, but Blair McD is one ugly guy in every way. Ugh!

    I hope he emigrates after the ‘Yes’ vote and I never clap eyes on him again.

  92. CamrtronB Brodie says:

    The gadgee is a total radge. Does he not realise how pompous he looks in that photo?

    It appears we cold add limited self awareness to his determination to highlight his bad judgment. Again.

    I’m not sure if his English based Tory backers are going to appreciate that. If I was his employer I’d have probably drafted a vacancy add by now.

    Now to enjoy the rest of the comments. 🙂

  93. crazycat says:

    @ Harry McAye

    I remember that film! I couldn’t have told you what it was called, though. I thought it was heart-breaking (though very well-done) – I won’t say why because that would be a spoiler.

    I think there was a series of short Scottish films, although I can’t recollect anything at all about any of the other films in the set. I can’t work out where I saw it though; if it was really 1988, I didn’t have a TV then (or now), my fleeting mental images are in colour and the TV I did have between 1990 and 2003 was black and white, so it must have been on someone else’s. I also thought it was West rather than East Lothian, but I could very easily be totally wrong!

  94. Nana Smith says:


    I’m sure its on the snp twitter account but you will have to scroll down to find it.

  95. Graeme Doig says:


    I work with homeless folk. 8 have registered in last 3 weeks. They all came and asked and all but one voting Yes. Small sample i know but think it shows the way people are motivated for this one. Lots of folk who have never voted before seeing a chance to change the way we are governed.

  96. Caroline Corfield says:

    Nana Smith:

    is that the correct spelling of his twitter ‘handle’ ? because it might be a spoof account – bliar is a bit of a giveaway… like the spoof alistair darling account which caught a lot of people out so close the the edge were the comments ( I think twitter made them do something abut the name eventually)

    Still anything is quite obviously possible as patronisingBTlady proves

  97. Nana Smith says:

    @Caroline Corfield

    Actually the spelling is a bit dodgy.
    Mind you he could have made it seem so, wouldn’t put it past any of the BT lot.

  98. Luigi says:

    Are homeless folk able to vote? I thought that proof of residence (address) in Scotland was required.

  99. macart763m says:

    OFFS he’s got to be kidding?

    This man is seriously implying that by voting YES we don’t love our families?

    There’s no words I’d be allowed to use on here to answer that.

  100. gerry parker says:

    Off topic.

    I’ve just posted a request for polling and counting agents for North Lanarkshire in off topic.

    busy day and a lot to catch up on.

  101. Milady de Winter says:

    @Elizabeth..thank you for posting that speech from Ian Hamilton…inspirational!

  102. Robert Louis says:


    is the #PatronisingBTLady the ‘Subway moment’ of the independence campaign?

    Probably not, but it does come close. What it does represent, I think, is the growing desperation within better together, and the British Establishment. Polling day is drawing near, and since the campaign began, the NO side have been losing support.

    Despite having the BBC in full flowing anti independence propaganda mode with blatant bias that would shock the cold war inhabitants of the Kremlin, the entire weight of the UK press (aside from one sunday paper), three London run political parties, the entire UK civil service, and the UK Government working flat out for them, the anti independence campaign is losing its lead day by day. And they know it.

    Their latest wheeze is those two ‘bestest friends’, Darling and Brown, who until now both found it easier to share a platform with Tories or UKIP, than with each other, doing their new double act. All the while pretending that their destruction of the UK economy didn’t really happen – and if it did, it really wasn’t their fault, they were just the PM and chancellor. Dumb and dumber.

    Compare and contrast the patronising negativity of the frankly insulting better together no thanks film, with the uplifting positivity of the YES campaign film seen on TV tonight.

    Better together are feart. The electoral demise of them and their lying ‘Scottish’ unionist cabal is just around the corner. It cannot come soon enough.

  103. handclapping says:

    O/T Just to make absolutely clear:

    You have to apply for registration as a voter by midnight on Tuesday 2 September.

    If you are a registered voter, you must apply for a postal vote, if you want one, by 5pm on Wednesday 3 September.

    If you have applied for a postal vote from mid August onwards you probably won’t receive your postal vote pack till somewhere about Monday 8th when these later applications up to the deadline on the 3rd have been processed and printed.

  104. Devereux says:

    @DaveDee Thank you so much – sending it out with copies of the WBB to friends on the fence…..

  105. fred blogger says:

    yet another visionary vid clip.
    the passion, creativity, and belief, is already there, it’s ours.

  106. Nana Smith says:

    Radical independence message.

    David Cameron will be addressing the CBI dinner at the Hilton Hotel near Charing Cross, Glasgow tomorrow evening, with a champagne reception from 7.15pm. We will be there to welcome him from 6.30pm with our massive ‘Sack the Tories’ banner. Please join us and spread the word.

  107. DaveDee says:


    you’re very welcome, glad to be able to help you out.

  108. farrochie says:

    Read about Jim Murphy’s visit to Stonehaven today. As told by Ray McRobbie.

  109. Graeme Doig says:


    The definition of ‘homelessness’ does not just cover those sleeping rough. Those in temporary accommodation are also considered homeless and can register at this temporary address.
    Those who are sleeping rough and/or couch surfing still have the right to register at an address they may or may not spend the most time at and vote at the local polling station.

  110. heedtracker says: Hypocrite Graun defending or protecting Tory boy No.1 now. He probably doesn’t Libby Carrell’s protection poor baby.

    “But behind this is a more complex picture and one which presents Salmond and Yes Scotland with its own challenges: by focusing so much fire on Cameron and the Tories in a bid to attract centre-left votes, they risk creating divisions amongst Scottish voters. By implication, Scots who admire or back the prime minister and his party are enemies too.”

    Whatever next? The Torygraph political ed caught in bed Stair heid.

  111. handclapping says:

    Re the homeless.
    It really depends on how peripatetic you are.
    If you could get the local Sally Ann commander to vouch that you sleep in a doorstep at the top of the High St depending on which way the wind is blowing and you are a regular at their soup kitchen you’d be registered after they’d checked which Polling District contained “the top of the High St”.

    You would be one of the few people that need to take some proof of identity to the polling station on the day as you would one of the unidentified voters, whose proper description I cannot remember, like the UK Secretary of State for NI, who “appear” on the register with neither name or address shown.

  112. bunter says:

    Iain MacWhirter no happy with YES as he suggests they have let the momentum gained after the debate slip, and BT have capitalised with Archie McPherson and a business letter.

  113. schrodinger's cat says:

    @James Caithness
    just wow
    tx for this, shared on facebook

  114. Brian Mchugh says:

    Bunter… NOBTUKOKTHANKSBORDERSSOMETHINGDEPRESSINGCAMPAIGN, know from their own research and secret polling that YES is soaring ahead… hence the BBC and medias’ obvious panic.

    Everyone keep going… cos this is going to be a landslide. 🙂

  115. davidhk says:

    Oh look, a donut ……

  116. Wp says:

    The lights are on but nobody is home.

  117. CameronB Brodie says:

    Second thoughts. Not pompous, cold and emotionless.

  118. Croompenstein says:

    @fred blogger – that is awesome even better than the official yes ad but then the grassroots is way better than the official yes campaign.

    @James Caithness – shared that as well, there must be a lot of folk like Iain Lawson who have seen first hand how Westminster regards Scotland not least the ScotMP troughers

  119. Nana Smith says:

    Yes campaign should be highlighting the fact Cameron is coming to Scotland for a big lavish dinner with the cbi while people are having to go to foodbanks.

    Also why not debate with the FM while he’s here instead of sucking up to big business and stuffing his face.

  120. YESGUY says:

    crazy Cat and harry

    was it “just another Saturday with The Big Yin and wee Frankie ( darlin , i#m feeling kinda lonesome”)

  121. Stu says:

    He was asked what he mean by it, this was his reply:

    “that undecided voters are making up their minds on what is best for their families. Fairly clear I would have thought.”

    Am I being really thick or is this not clear in the slightest?

  122. Is it true that, at home, Blair McDougall answers to the name ‘Paul’?

  123. Brian Mchugh says:

    The lass on BBC2 just pulled an uncomfortable shocked studio silence there when she said;”You know, I find it quite incredible that David Cameron is willing to come up to Scotland to talk to the CBI, but not to debate with Alex Salmond.”


  124. muttley79 says:


    Iain MacWhirter no happy with YES as he suggests they have let the momentum gained after the debate slip, and BT have capitalised with Archie McPherson and a business letter.

    Eh, how does he get that?… What were the Yes campaign supposed to do about these things; place Archie under house arrest, and prevent a letter appearing in the MSM? How bizarre…

  125. Ian Brotherhood says:


  126. Stu says:

    @Nana Smith – is anything the Scottish Sec does newsworthy? The biggest waste of taxpayers money ever. Especially the last 3 nonentities.

  127. CameronB Brodie says:

    I didn’t hear what the guy said to Brown. Was it a good heckle? 🙂

  128. Patrician says:

    @Nana Smith

    That is a spoof account, it has been on twitter for ages.

  129. Graeme Doig says:

    muttley 79


    … meanwhile in the real world, miles away from a bunch of has beens spouting vacuous nonsense and lies, we are all doing the real follow up work.
    Guy at my work was soft Yes, went to No, and now a badge wearing Yes mostly due to WBB which is currently doing it’s rounds throughout Scotland.

  130. Martin says:

    I’m delighted with agents Darling and McDougall. They’ve played it brilliantly and deserve every credit for the yes vote. There was a danger that women were leaning towards no, but McDougall’s sabotage here has saved the day. Utterly brilliant subterfuge

  131. Mosstrooper says:

    MacWhirter always has been bit of an odd bod regarding Scotland. When he came back from his London sojourn he complained that Scotland was ” appallingly white”??

    Naw, me neither.

  132. Chic McGregor says:

    Right. So families are all that matter, unless we get independence, and then family members on the other side of the Border become ‘foreigners’.

    My ‘foreign’ son in Finland and my ‘foreign’ daughter in New Zealand, both YES supporters, although unable to vote, might just disagree with that whole U-philosophy.

  133. Papadox says:

    IMO. The Scottish Secretary will not be welcome in the politics of a new Scotland. Alistair yer on yer own old son.

  134. Jeannie says:


    Heartily agree with your advice re making sure the writing on Yes declarations and cards is legible and contains proper postcode. I’ve just spent 3 days deciphering over 500 Yes declarations and my eyes and brain are totally nipping.

    What would really help, guys, is if you are able, check what has been written to make sure you can read it yourself or even read it back to the person who has signed it to make sure the name and postcode is correct. Ask if the person is registered, also or has recently moved. Would be much appreciated at this end. Ta.

  135. muttley79 says:


    This is no time for complacency. If you think a Yes vote is in the bag, I want to know what you have been smoking? 😀

  136. BuckieBraes says:

    Between the vid featuring the Mumsnet reject; George Galloway in a silly hat; the stellar triumvirate of Brown, Darling and Macpherson; and Jim Murphy ranting around the country while perched precariously on two fizzy drinks crates, the No campaign is becoming so spectacularly bizarre I can’t wait for the next instalment.

  137. Morag says:

    Took six WBBs into work today and just left them in the tea room. Only three there now, one of which has clearly been read.

    One of the missing ones was taken by a nailed-on Yesser who has been trying to convert his old Mum in Lochaber for ages, saying “this is going in the post tonight”. Don’t know who got the others.

    Sent three out by post, to possibly fertile ground (well maybe not in one case but you have to try). Another ready to give to a neighbour tomorrow. As soon as she heard I had them, another neighbour came round for two to give to people she was about to meet.

    I’ll be taking lots more out to outlying houses and farms at the weekend.

  138. Robert Peffers says:

    @Luigi says: 27 August, 2014 at 9:43 pm:

    “Are homeless folk able to vote? I thought that proof of residence (address) in Scotland was required.

    Don’t know if it applies to your usual party vs party elections but if a homeless person can identify a verifiable place, (for example the park bench where they regularly sleep), then yes they can vote in the referendum.
    Far as I know they can name a organization place like a Salvation Army hall that feeds them regularly too.

  139. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cracking article by Derek Bateman. Is it surprising that the MSM hasn’t made more noise about HSBC appearing to have essentially taken over from the BCCI? Even Hong Kong Phooey could have told you that. 🙂

    Funding to criminals and dictators

    BCCI handled money for Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Hussain Mohammad Ershad and Samuel Doe.[9] Other account holders included Medellin Cartel and Abu Nidal.[10]

    CIA funding to the Afghan Mujahideen and the Contras

    The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency held numerous accounts at BCCI, according to William von Raab, former U.S. Commissioner of Customs. Oliver North also used and held multiple accounts at BCCI. These bank accounts were used for a variety of illegal covert operations, including transfers of money and weapons related to the Iran-Contra scandal, according to Time Magazine.[11] The CIA also worked with BCCI in arming and financing the Afghan mujahideen during the Afghan War against the Soviet Union, using BCCI to launder proceeds from trafficking heroin grown in the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderlands, boosting the flow of narcotics to European and U.S. markets.[12]

  140. X_Sticks says:

    “Look at those cold, dead, soulless eyes.”

    But what a FAT wallet.

  141. The Labour MP Douglas Alexander didn’t he run the 2010 Labour election campaign?
    See what happened there.

    He is running the BT campaign isn’t he?

    You know when you think of the Labour numptiesin Scotland that led the SLAB. Henry McLeish had to resign under a cloud, Jack McConnel the same, Wendy Alexander the same, Gray a boring inept fool and now Joanne Lamont hahahahahahahahahaha.

  142. Thepnr says:

    Here’s what i expect to happen very soon. Big poll showing Yes slightly in the lead, there may have been a surge and the WBB will bring a surge.

    But what I am certain about is that the pollsters themselves cannot take the chance of looking like total idiots when then results are announced.

    Very soon then for the first poll showing Yes barely in front with all else catching up, bookies odds shorten dramatically until on the day you went get better than 6/4 for a Yes vote. More likely Even money. Quite simply they will not just give away free money.

  143. @Thepnr – the pollsters looked stupid in 2010.

  144. CameronB Brodie says:

    No Better Together Thanks

  145. CameronB Brodie says:

    full of (non-harmonious) emotions

  146. Thepnr says:

    @James Caithness

    Fair doos, I’m never followed polls in my life, until now.

    If though these idiots fail to see what is happening in Scotland in front of their eyes without taking a poll then you should be out of business.

  147. Ian Brotherhood says:

    McDougall’s trying to look statesmanlike. Not easy, when Eddie Izzard’s done your make-up.

  148. Thepnr says:

    However I’m standing by what I first said, the polls have been so far out and wrong they must narrow or look MORE than ridiculous.

    How’s that James?

  149. CameronB Brodie says:

    Looks like the filter doesn’t want to deal with any derivative of the single word describing non-harmonious (begins with a c). 🙂


  150. twenty14 says:

    O/T – Huff post( won’t dare link )

    ” Independent Scotland would need its own Intelligence Agencies ” – have not even read it but I can only assume that France, Spain and Germany are grateful for having the UK as their co-ordinated Intelligence Agency. They must be trying to outwit BT and claim the coveted Stupidity Award

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    c o n f l i c t e d

    That got it. 😉

  152. This is another wee gem I found, this time on the Yes Motherwell and Wishaw page. Don’t out YES family realise the wee gems they asre sitting on? Get them on here.

  153. fred blogger says:

    YES – English Bill’s Poem.
    the social union is strong, unbreakable.
    i have family in england, and ireland they will always be my family.
    WM is NOT my family.

  154. NODROG says:

    STU – again Alistair Darling and approximately 200 Westminster MPs and Lords have been identified by the SNP website as receiving payments from Health service companies. Of course that had no effect on parliamentary decisions in the house of lords or Westminster? Aye right! David Cameron is here tomorrow to promote the union of the UK but not Europe because he and the people who will most likely succeed him are anti Europe. Add to that the 130 votes from No Business in Scotland and I ask you again do all 130 have a vote in the referendum? You could ask the dynamic duo of Alistair & Gordon the economic wonders of the world!!

  155. CameronB Brodie says:

    James Caithness
    I posted a a few articles and HM Gov documents regarding nuclear industry economics and waste management, in Off Topic. Two or three pages in, so you’ll need to go back a few pages.

  156. mr thms says:

    # Martin says:

    I’m delighted with agents Darling and McDougall. They’ve played it brilliantly and deserve every credit for the yes vote. There was a danger that women were leaning towards no, but McDougall’s sabotage here has saved the day. Utterly brilliant subterfuge


    totally agree.. and the shocks will keep coming after the Yes vote

  157. CameronB Brodie.

    I posted the link not as a serious thing, but more to show how the English public think after being fed crap from the media down south.

  158. That photo really is quite eerie. And that poster, U KOK. What’s that all about?

  159. PeeGee says:

    Sad to announce that Lallands Peat Worrier is now officially a twonk.

    He used, “pre-prepared”, in his article on Monday’s debate.

    Since I can’t comment on his page directly I’ll put it here. Can anybody help the poor man?

  160. CameronB Brodie says:

    James Caithness
    We do have our own homegrown idiots, of course. I hope I don’t shock folk, but I couldn’t care less whether I was Scottish, English or Polynesian. I am what I am through an accident of birth. However, I do expect to be treated ethically by the institutions that govern my life. So how can I accept Westminster rule?

    Please vote Yes.

  161. @NODROG You wouldn’t be once of FF would you?

  162. P.R.D. says:

    An Independent Scotland would rate a Higher Human Development Index (HDI) than the rest of rUK


    noun: homogeneity

    the quality or state of being homogeneous.
    “the cultural homogeneity of our society”

    synonyms: uniformity, homogeneousness, similarity, similar nature, similitude, likeness, alikeness, sameness, identicalness, consistency, resemblance, comparability, correspondence; rare analogousness
    “the cultural homogeneity of Europe”

  163. @CameronB Brodie, I am voting YES

  164. CameronB Brodie says:

    James Caithness
    Do I need to go to bed? I wasn’t meaning to jump all over you. I’d figured you are one of the good guy and I was just using your comment to make another. Sorry for any confusion. 🙂

  165. CameronB Brodie – No probs.

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Blair McDougall
    Better Together? No Thanks!

    9 out of 10 of the poorest regions in northern Europe are in Britain

  167. frankieboy says:

    I’m sure they think he is worth his £108,000pa. Personally, I cannot think of anyone who epitomises the union more than him. Bloated, smug, arrogant, dishonest, bitter, mean spirited and twisted.

  168. NODROG says:

    Sorry James do not understand but assume your comment is positive? FF? “NODROG You wouldn’t be once of FF would you?”

  169. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 28 August, 2014 at 12:19 am:

    “Do I need to go to bed? I wasn’t meaning to jump all over you. I’d figured you are one of the good guy and I was just using your comment to make another. Sorry for any confusion.”

    Well, CameronB Brodie, perhaps you don’t need to go to bed. Just remember we all make the odd slip now and then. Tell you what, though, I’m off to bed. The wee papillon has just told me it’s time I did.

    Don’t know if she can read the clock but she is never more than a couple of minutes out on midnight. First it is, “Ah want oot fir a pee”. Then, “Ah need watter”, then she bothers me to get through to her night bed in the corner of the bedroom.

    A wee girl I know asked to take her a walk. I agreed and the wee girl said, “but how will I know what she wants”. I said, “You’ll know: You’ll know”.

    Half an hour later they returned and the wee lass said, “You were right – I did know”. Aren’t kids and dugs wonderful? Mind you, that wee lass is around 8 going on 80.

    G’night! I’m off before this dug drives me demented wanting to her bed.

  170. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    I’ll fight my corner Robert, but hopefully I have the humility to admit when I’m in the wrong. Unlike Alistair Darling and company, of course. (inaudible mumble)

    Night night. 😉

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    And CameronB is fine. Less formal. 🙂

  172. manandboy says:

    Just testing as I posted a comment and it just disappeared as soon as I hit submit

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    The filter can be odd some times.

  174. Thepnr says:

    I have an idea!

    Lets vote Yes and put this poor excuse for a spine out of a job.

  175. Brian Mchugh says:

    Great article “Getting back to why”…

  176. manandboy says:

    200 MP’s being paid by healthcare companies.
    Companies which are waiting in the wings
    to snap up all the highly lucrative bits of the NHS
    as it is privatised by stealth
    under the careful guidance of David Cameron
    and his City advisors.

    I am sure that the speed of greed at Westminster
    and in the City of London,
    has accelerated noticeably under this Government.

    Scottish Independence won’t be the force which damages rUK.
    It will be the power of
    internal greed,lies and corruption,
    which will drive England in particular,
    to a break down of social cohesion.

  177. CameronB Brodie says:

    Some advice please. Do I leave big holes in my posts, in the assumption that folk are following what I wittering on about?

  178. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I would like to take Blair McDougall to the area in Kilwinning which we leafleted a fortnight ago.

    It is (literally) a stone’s throw away from the pedestrianised shopping precinct which has been recently given a make-over, with very impressive gleaming stone-work and modern sculptures etc.

    I won’t name the ‘street’ we were on.

    You would have no reason to go there, or even pass by it. It is a short-ish cul-de-sac of flats, with no space for car-parking, bins, or much of anything else. Two-storied.

    As we went in to leaflet the flats, the first door was wide open. Inside, a kitchen. A girl, no more than three years old, was standing, barefoot, in a limp, dirty dress, looking up at me. I didn’t know whether to hand her the leaflet or post it through the letterbox, (which was not part of the door, but below a small window). Peeking inside, I saw no adults to ask, so stuck the thing through the letterbox and moved on.

    The colleague accompanying me had already done the next door, so we ‘leap-frogged’ down the five or six other doors, but came to a dead-end when trying to access the upper flats. The ‘Services’ button didn’t allow us in, so we pressed the half dozen buttons, and waited.

    As we waited, I put a leaflet in the letterbox of a flat which appeared to be empty. No lights inside.

    No response from the upper flat buttons. A noise to my right – in the ’empty’ flat, a tall figure slowly moved across the frosted glass space, perhaps unaware that we could se him, and gently drew the leaflet from the flap. He then froze briefly before retreating – he didn’t turn, but walked backwards, slowly. The hairs on my neck were up.

    As we turned away, the wee girl I’d encountered at the first door was right there behind us. She addressed ‘J’ rather than me, but it was difficult to make out what she was saying. We were in a dim recess and it suddenly felt extremely awkward, so we moved back along and the girl followed, persistently asking J for something. He clicked that she wanted another SSP leaflet (a monochrome A3 sheet) for her sister. J gave her another leaflet and she went back inside her house.

    We left the badly-lit corridor, returned to the ‘main’ street, where J’s wife had completed a row of houses and was making her way back. I sat on the wall for a breather. Suddenly, the girl’s voice came up again – she was on the other side of the road, this time with an older sister, (perhaps five years old at most) also barefoot, wearing what may have been pyjamas or a track suit. They were holding hands, and held the SSP leaflets in their free hands. J, alarmed to see them at the roadside, immediately went across to ‘shoo’ them back home. This time, both girls looked up at him and asked for another leaflet, for ‘E’ (presumably another sister, friend or relative) who could not, for whatever reason, come out of the house.

    In all this time we did not clap eyes on a single adult.

    Kilwinning has always, so far as I’m aware, been a Labour stronghold. I wonder how many of the current hierarchy would even be able to guess what part of Kilwinning I’m referring to, let alone claim that they’ve ever been there, or are familiar with the problems being faced by the folk living there.

    Blair McDougall is, for sure, a joke character, and we’ve all had much fun at his expense, what with the brilliant Moodie cartoons, the atrocious gaffes he’s made. He has certainly exposed himself as a Category Five fanny and a profoundly unpleasant character.

    But we shouldn’t forget what he’s doing, what he truly represents, and the damage his ilk have already done to our families, friends and neighbours i.e. our ‘communities’.

    And I’ll stop there, before I write something which may later be used to incriminate me.

  179. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Er, not A3 leaflets!! We can’t afford them… must be, what, A5?


    Anyway, it’s not important.

    What is important is to get creatures like McDougall out of public life in Scotland once and for all.

  180. CameronB Brodie says:

    Made me smile.

  181. manandboy says:

    It’s done it again. Submit – and it’s gone!!

  182. BB says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    A3 “leaflets”?? Those are some bloody big lads and lasses you’ve got handing those out if they consider them leaflets. Sign them up as bouncers ASAP. 😉

    In other news Jim Sillars is in Ayrshire soon. He’s doing a talk at Maybole town hall too. Nice chance for the villages, etc. to meet the man and listen to him in person. Awesome.

    PS. Putting in my mandatory plug for any Ayrshire folk to visit the off-topic thread and let me know they are interested in helping during the referendum, counting and voting processes. The ones who’ve mentioned interest to me already know who they are and I’ve not forgotten them, of course, but the more the merrier as plenty places vacant still.

    Just speak out and we can see what we can work out. There’s many tasks that can be done with flexible times or schedules etc. to suit most volunteers, so don’t be shy. I’m keen to get as many Wings readers in as possible. You’ll get to feel all special with your own security pass. Hehe 🙂 Go on, have a go!

  183. Molly says:

    Better Together have spent the majority of this year talking about a currency union.How relevant to those kids lives do you think a currency union is?

  184. Marco McGinty says:

    @schrodinger’s cat
    “whether lamont likes it or not, the bnp and the OO are part of the BT campaign. why should we ignore them because lamont, brown and darling say so?”

    They might try to deny it, and they might try to ignore it, but the whole of Scotland knows they have used a bigot and a racist in prominent positions at meetings and in nationally televised adverts.

  185. Marco McGinty says:

    @schrodinger’s cat
    “whether lamont likes it or not, the bnp and the OO are part of the BT campaign. why should we ignore them because lamont, brown and darling say so?”

    They might try to deny it, and they might try to ignore it, but the whole of Scotland knows they have used a bigot and a racist in prominent positions at meetings and in nationally televised adverts.

  186. Marco McGinty says:

    @schrodinger’s cat
    “whether lamont likes it or not, the bnp and the OO are part of the BT campaign. why should we ignore them because lamont, brown and darling say so?”

    They can try to deny it, and they can try to ignore it, but the whole of Scotland knows they have used a racist and a bigot in a prominent position for meetings and a nationally televised advert.

  187. bookie from hell says:

    Steve Bells fixation of Salmond Steve Bell offers:Trail with image on side (from named trailblock):Position1

  188. bookie from hell says:

    REV–read headline,then 2nd paragraph

    hatchet job

  189. Derek M says:

    eek what a fleg i got, Stu you really should have a warning on that picture of big blair mcfastpiearm not good for the old ticker at this time of the morning,if that laddie smiled his face would crack open.

    ot/ just in case nobody has mentioned it wee eck will be on RT on the 29th on Sophie and co looks like it could be interesting.

  190. Marker Post says:

    Hope you’ve seen this, Rev.

    No Campaign’s new ad convinces some to vote Yes:

  191. Brian Mchugh says:

    Marker Post, was funny watching Jenny Marra trying to defend the AD. She was visibly torn between her true feelings and the lies coming out her mouth.

  192. steven Seagull says:

    Fat arrogant slug, reminds me of Hermann Goering.

  193. donald anderson says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    And CameronB is fine. Less formal.

    Andy Cameron is better.
    Is Butter Together better than Batter Together?
    Jam Tomorrow. Crumbs Today.

    As a famous Wobbly once said, “We don’t want the crumbs. We want the whole goddam bakehouse”.

    As a famous Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer once said,”Trident afore Mutter”.

  194. donald anderson says:

    steven Seagull
    Fat arrogant slug, reminds me of Hermann Goering.

    Goering used to be a stunt pilot.

    What kind of pilot does that make Herr McDougal?

  195. CameronB Brodie says:

    Talking about Wobblies, I got chatting to a couple of labourers yesterday, on the bus (safety boots and covered in stoor). The youngest wasn’t interested and not registered, the eldest couldn’t vote. I tried to convince junior to register but I’m not sure if I got through to him. I managed to strike up a reasonable conversation with senior, as he was quite pro Yes though thought it wouldn’t happen. Of course I corrected him, making sure most folk could hear our conversation. Myself anyway. 🙂

    I might try an all day ticket today, if it rains. If it is nice, I’ll just join bus queues and use the same tactic. I’ve already got my shopping so the checkout opperators are safe for a wee while longer. 🙂

  196. Derek M says:

    hmm come on guys he might be fat and …… all the rest but lets not compare him to one of the worst human beings in history tried for crimes against humanity ,remember how annoyed we were when we were all called nazi`s on numerous occasions lets not go there lets stick to him being an arse and leave the nazi`s slurs to his buddy flipper and his gang of halfwits ok.

  197. Ken500 says:

    Steve Bell another trougher, making money out of Alex Salmond and the Referendum

    Most of Westminster should be in jail.

    The two most unpopular politicians in Britain. Lead the No campaign.

  198. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve also got bookings to take my first order of 6 x WBB from kestril’s ebay setup, which is nice. 🙂

  199. john king says:

    Heedtracker says
    ” no voter complained to the management by phone that I am using it to make people vote YES. ”

    Your making them vote yes?
    What, did you have a .45 revolver in your hand as well?

    oui things says
    “On that note Blair MacDougal can go and fuck himself.”

    Nothing to add,
    carry on.

    James Caithness @ 10.24

    I’ve shared this with as many people as I can think of, this guy is amazing and vocalizes (far better than I ever could) my feelings exactly.

    Mosstrooper says
    “MacWhirter always has been bit of an odd bod regarding Scotland. When he came back from his London sojourn he complained that Scotland was ” appallingly white”??”

    Must have been a good summer when he came back,
    It takes a week of sunshine for me to go from blue to white.

    Ian Brotherhood says
    “McDougall’s trying to look statesmanlike. Not easy, when Eddie Izzard’s done your make-up.”


    Peegee says
    “He used, “pre-prepared”, in his article on Monday’s debate. ”

    Would it make you happier if he used the phrase “mise en place”?

    Sweet cheeks Catriona Shearer reports on a positive news item telling us 200 buisness leaders have said there IS a positive case for independence, 🙂 but does it while showing a visual of the Scotsman report with the camera panning slowly over the headline “NO BUISNESS CASE FOR INDEPENDENCE” so anyone rushing about getting ready for work who doesnt have time to stop and listen will see YET AGAIN a negative report. 🙁
    way to go BBC (noted)

    Ian Brotherhood @1.10am

    You cant hide a literary bent,
    well written Ian!

    Cameronb links to this

    Could not agree more with the English guy, the fact that we’re agonising over this is embarressing, the decision should be a slamdunk.

    come on guys throw me a frikkin bone here already,
    the only person who’s offered to help me with WBB’s is Thepnr for which I am grateful and I will come and get them (give me the details by email) when they arrive, but if anyone else can spare a couple of hundred I would travel to the borders if I had to, but I desparately need them Ive got yes campaign guys screaming for them!

  200. JLT says:

    I noted this yesterday. It really is a case of ‘What is he implying? That Yes voters are selfishly excluding their loved ones and their all concerns and needs while we chase a dream. That all we think about is Independence and that is it. Make no bones about it, I’m working most of the day, studying during my lunch, coming home and back out the door to canvass, and then get home to study again. I’m lucky if I’m seeing the wife for an hour a day. I feel guilty, but she understands what I am doing, and backs me wholly. I will be glad on the 19th when it is over. A break from it all, and then I can give my wife all the attention she wants …before we begin Stage 2 if we win, and then get involved in creating the new Scotland (never ends …does it!)

    But for Blair; I think Blair needs to realise very quickly, that the reason we are voting Yes, and the reasons why many of us are deeply committed in spending a vast amount of time with Yes Campaign, is that we are trying to PROTECT our loved ones by keeping them safe from the crushing pessimism and the corrupt system of the UK state that he so lovingly holds up as a magnificent concept. Blair can spout ‘best of both worlds’ and ‘better together’, but the problem for him is, even he can’t define it, let alone explain it to us. That’s the reason why his campaign is failing.

    We know why we’re doing what we’re doing; can he?

  201. CameronB Brodie says:

    I still have to place my order btw, just in case kestril clipes on me. 🙂

  202. Juteman says:

    OT. According to GMS Alastair Carmichael wants to join Team Scotland after a Yes vote. He must know the writing is on the wall for No.

  203. Derek M says:

    @ Juteman well they do say the rats are the first to desert a sinking ship,there will be more of them libdems jostling for some position in iScotland personally i think we should not let them anywhere near our parliament ever again.

  204. Mealer says:

    Steven Seagull.
    Obesity is a major problem in Scotland and most other wealthy countries.A good friend of mine who works hard for the YES campaign has a constant battle with his weight.

  205. macart763m says:



    Alistair Carmichael can …. (fill in as appropriate)

    After all he’s said and done during this campaign and he’s expecting a bone?

  206. bugsbunny says:

    Where have all the ("Tractor" - Ed)s gone?
    Better Together, everyone!
    Where have all the ("Tractor" - Ed)s gone?
    Not long to go,
    Where have all the Traitors gone?
    Off to London everyone,
    They’ve gone to spread their lies!
    They’ve gone to spread their lies!

    Where have all the liars gone?
    Joined Unionist parties everyone!
    Where have all the liars gone?
    Long time ago,
    Where have all the liars gone?
    Taken 30 peices of silver, everyone;
    They’ve sold their country out!
    They’ve sold their country out!

    Where have all the dimwits gone?
    Voting no, everyone!
    Where have all the dimwits gone?
    Short time ago,
    Where have all the dimwits gone?
    Spreading lies, everyone;
    They won’t ever understand!
    They won’t ever understand!

    Where have all the frightened gone?
    Regurgitating propaganda, everyone!
    Where have all the frightened gone?
    Short time ago,
    Where have all the frightened gone?
    Counting their pennies everyone;
    Oh don’t they understand?
    Oh don’t they understand?

    Where have all the powers gone?
    Down at Westminster, every one,
    Where has all the powers gone?
    Long time ago;
    Where have all the powers gone?
    Down at Westminster ever one,
    We’ve got to get it back!
    We’ve got to get it back!

    Where have all the Patriots gone?
    Down to vote YES, every one!
    Where have all the Patriots gone?
    Not long to go!
    Where have all the Patriots gone?
    Down to vote YES, every one,
    Our children will understand!
    Our children will understand!


  207. donald anderson says:

    Whit if it rains oan polling day?
    Whit if a woluf eats me up if I cry wolf again?
    Woe is me. Gnash. Wail and slops in a pail.
    Whit if I am too wee, too stupit and to poor tae leave the hoose oan polling day? Whit’s mah plan B?

    Naebiddy telt me. Ah don’t know anything aboot it. They’re no’ telling me right. Whit if the Old Firm gets banned in a Scottish Republic?

    Ah’m gonny top maself.

  208. Free Scotland says:

    If McDougall bought a shirt with the correct collar size (i.e. much smaller), the buttons further down the shirt would not be able to meet the button holes, particularly around the waist. I think the poster is his way of saying that the buttons and button holes are better together.

  209. Snode1965 says:

    That’s 3 days since AS trounced darling,and 3 days in a row that the scottish sun has had massive Yes articles. Today’s edition even has a double page spread on brave heart! Like everyone here Murdoch smells victory 🙂

  210. Juteman says:

    According to Naughty Jim. This was around 6.30am

  211. Arabs for Independence says:

    Just listened to James Naughtie on GMS arguing with guy who said that England subsidises Scotland – Naughtie got tore into him and said Scotland pays in more than it gets out!!

    Have I slept in by 20 years? Jim Naughtie arguing the Independence case – am I dreaming?

  212. CameronB Brodie says:

    Treated myself to a takeaway curry last night. Out of a staff of six, only two were for No. They’ll have to share a WBB.

  213. Croompenstein says:

    @Arabs – Naughty Jim!! Jeezo he needs to tell his cohorts Crash and the Flipper as they are still perpetuating the subsidy junkie myth to try and scare folk like Kirsty the homeless woman on Disreporting Scotland last night.

  214. Greannach says:

    Alistair Carmichael? Who?

  215. dodecostanza says:

    Could someone please point me to somewhere online (maybe WOS, maybe elsewhere) to help with this:
    I’m having an online discussion with someone about the WBB and they pointed me to “The Wee Blue Book of Lies” at chokkablog.

    As far as I can see he’s quoting different figures and seems to come to the conclusion that Scotland gets out more than it puts into the UK.
    I know this is nonsense (even James Naughtie says so!) but I’d appreciate it if there was an online rebuttal that I could point this person to.


  216. Malc says:

    Does anyone have a link to a list of the 130 companies that came out yesterday as being against Scotland. Interested to see who they are so that I can avoid dealing with them.

  217. Macart says:


    Well if its the Naughty boy, it’ll be right enough then. Only he would be so cruel as to drop that piece of gossip on the punter.

    Bearing in mind though that Carmichael has been such an unmitigated car crash as SoSfS, just why would he think we’d even consider him any kind of fit. We’re trying to get rid of people who have no confidence in the Scottish electorate.

    I mean people like him who have expressed this belief aren’t likely to change their minds overnight. Putting aside his political capabilities for a moment (dire as they are), would you want anyone on that team who didn’t believe in the capabilities of the country they were negotiating for? I can think of a number of cross party politicos I’d rather have on that team (if we must) and he would be nowhere near that list.

  218. ronnie anderson says:

    Cameron to tell Scottish buisnessmen that rUk is Scotlands biggest marketplace for goods, noo who redrew the World Map & left out all those other Country,s,that Would trade with Scotland as a Independant Country.

  219. John Young says:

    As the man says, it’s not possible to vote No and be a decent person.
    Very powerful youtube video from ex diplomat Craig Murray.

  220. David Wardrope says:

    I see that on BBC article on Cameron’s brave visit to Glasgow, the lead picture no longer has the saltire under the union flag…it’s now under the union flag AND the st george flag.

  221. CameronB Brodie says:

    Is Cameron suggesting that cross-border trade will drop dramatically after independence? Why would this be the case and where is the evidence?

  222. galamcennalath says:

    Just thinking. Don’t know if anyone else has said this.

    Is all this talk of families some attempt at a subliminal message to “stay together for the sake of the kids”?

  223. Ken500 says:

    Cameron the most unpopular politician in Scotland. Even more YES votes. Hate ye back. Oops Haste ye back.

    Scotland lost millions of people and jobs and the equivalent of £Billions of revenues because of Westminster rule. Thatcher and the BoE – unemployment in Scotland was a price worth paying
    for jobs and prosperity in London S/E. Keep millions of jobs in Scotland. Vote YES.

  224. ronnie anderson says:

    Wee Duggie Alexander refusing to answer the question on Plan B after the Referendum 8.17 Bbc Scot

  225. David Coulter says:

    I’ll tell you something……if in the (unlikely) event of a No vote, the rUK begin to tamper with our funding formula, they are in for one almighty struggle. If you think the referendum has unleashed a grassroots dynamism in the debating sense, then think of what could be achieved when we put that energy into organised resistance. I’m buggered if I’m going to stand by and watch Westminster take their revenge for us having the audacity to challenge their precious self serving Union. The Scottish genie is well and truly out of the bottle and it ain’t going back in.

    Reply ?

  226. caz-m says:

    What you don’t see in the Better Together TV Ad is the chain running from that poor woman’s ankle to the kitchen sink and the bottle of valium sitting on the table.

    Women are turned off by the latest BT political Ad. It is patronising and out of touch with the majority of Scottish women, helping a lot them to finally make up their mind and vote YES.

  227. Johnny says:

    dodecostanza @ 8:01

    Surely the rebuttal is the Wee Blue Book itself….or, at least, the links to the evidence contained within? I think I’d be directing the person to follow the evidence the WBB cites. If they won’t listen then, they are at it, frankly.

  228. @ dodecostanza says

    Point out to the person that the information was sourced from the UK Government’s literature for the most part.
    So if he thinks it’s lies then his Government is telling him lies.

    Mind he’s probably too thick to take that in. Time too short to waste on died in the wool unioists.

  229. Wee Alex says:

    Just listened to James naughtie interview Douglas Alexander on radio.

    Never have I heard a politician talk so much but say absolutely nothing. Asked the same question as A Darling to name 3 things to bring jobs to Scotland, all he could manage was youth training and apprenticeships, something the current Government is doing.

    It’s a pity Alexander gets away with the guff he speaks, it’s utter drivel. Intellectual drivel.

  230. Grouse Beater says:

    Carmichael says he’d resign on a Yes win, (what else could he do?) and join Salmond’s negotiation team.

  231. Sinky says:

    Douglas Alexander on BBC Morning Call from 8.50 am

    Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.

  232. Brotyboy says:

    Ian Brotherhood @1.10am

    Powerful post, Ian. But thanks for the reminder that this is about people.

  233. Famous15 says:

    If a business makes decisions other than on best price for best quality regardless of source they would not survive. Any other consideration like trading with the “enemy” is a matter for government.

    Back to history ,,Ireland after a bloody fight gained independence..they were specifically declared never mind not being an enemy but were not to be viewed as foreign.

    Scaremongering is my grouse!

  234. CameronB Brodie says:

    “The Scottish Government’s track record of investment in health – and not being sucked into the creeping privatisation agenda of healthcare south of the border – highlight exactly why the future of the NHS in Scotland can only be secured with a Yes vote.” 🙂

  235. Thepnr says:

    Have Cameron and BTNT thrown in the towel? GMS this morning was a vote Yes festival. As has already been mentioned that pro English parliament guy inteviewed by Jim Naughtie was an absolute gift.

    As well as rubbishing the Scotland is subsidised by England claim we also got Scotland would be punished after a No vote, Scots shouldn’t vote on English matters, the NHS in England is being privatised and Scotland would have to do the same. Oh and our budget needed to be cut to bring us into line with England effectively Barnett would be scrapped.

    Loved every minute.

  236. Capella says:

    Just heard the BBC Radio 4 item on the 200 business men writing in support of Independence. The only content they quoted was that Scottish businesses are charged by embassies for foreign support but English businesses are not. They can confirm that this is not true.
    Worth putting this up for all to hear.

  237. caz-m says:

    Douglas Alexander falls into this Westminster mind set, that ALL Scots who are voting for Scottish Independence are involved in some way with the SNP and are Alex Salmond supporters.

    He is so out of touch with his own Labour Party members. They are telling him that they have had enough of Westminster and want a fresh start in an Independent Scotland.

  238. dodecostanza says:

    But the guy on chokkablog is referring to GERS figures himself.
    Claims that WBBs figures are too selective.
    Makes it difficult (for me, with my limited knowledge of the subject) to argue back.

  239. galamcennalath says:

    @David Coulter

    I have paraphrased arch Unionist Churchill before but it seems to suit.

    A YES, and it’s the beginning of the end. The end of the Union.

    A NO, and it’s just the end of the beginning. The genie is out and ain’t going back.

  240. Ken500 says:

    Carmichael is retiring. Looking for a job?

  241. David Stevenson says:

    Caz-m @8.25

    Just to add that when my 14yo daughter watched it shd likened BTLady’s orange top to US prison wear!

  242. Another Union Dividend says:

    The Scotsman online has banned not only any links but also the use of the words wings over scotland.

  243. Brotyboy says:


    Please don’t worry about offending people. I don’t think anything you post could be construed as offensive, but I think many people don’t get what you’re trying to say because you allow us to reach our own conclusions.

    I haven’t understood half of what you’ve posted, but in my defence I’ve not followed your links as I’ve not had the time to pursue them all.

    I think you have an interesting take on things it would be great to have a blether with you, so any time after the 18th that you’re back in your home town let me know and I’ll be glad to meet up with you.

    In the meantime, thanks for the tone of your posts, which is considerate and uplifting.

  244. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cheers Brotyboy. I’m sure you’ve not seen the last of me. 😉

  245. galamcennalath says:

    caz-m says:
    “Douglas Alexander …. is so out of touch with his own Labour Party members.”

    Many things have hampered BT (and helped Yes). A significant one has certainly been the way characters like Alexander, Lamont, Curran, see this whole referendum as just being an extension of the tribal war they have been having for at least a decade with the SNP and Salmond.

    Scotland, and perhaps grassroots Labour in particular, have moved on and left them behind literally standing bitter together.

  246. goldenayr says:


    Who is this guy and what forum?

    If you can’t see the obvious argument I’ll do it.

  247. Robert Louis says:

    As someone else pointed out, this week we have had the car crash debate with Darling an epic fail, followed by patronising BTlady, swiftly followed today, by patronising BT posh boy, the English Prime Minister David Cameron on an awayday return to Scotland to tell us ‘jocks’ what’s good for us. Again.

    Now that Darling has been demolished, Tory posh boy Cameron still hasn’t got the cojones to defend his views in a live debate with the First Minister of Scotland. Wimp.

    Better together really are losing the plot.

  248. David says:

    Off topic.

    I’ve just posted a request for polling and counting agents for North Lanarkshire in off topic.

    busy day and a lot to catch up on.

    Been trying for a while (since it was initially posted here)to volunteer for some of this but had no contact from Stu I am in Motherwell and semi retired and mobile so totally free to assist here also still waiting on some WBB’s

  249. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Dougie Alexander is in for a rough ride here…

    Pose as a DK, get live on-air, then cast off the cloak of ditheringness and rip right intae him.

  250. Capella says:

    I’ve searched for the textbof the pro indy business letter but can’t find any mention of the embassy charges so comprehensively refuted by the BBC Today programme this morning. Here is Business for Scotland’s link which quotes the text but no mention of embassies. Has anyone got the full text?

  251. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:
    Better together really are losing the plot.

    You presume they had a plot to lose 🙂

  252. heedtracker says:

    Someone at work photoshopped him into a toga and laurel wreath on his head too. Works really well, more funny thing happened on the way to the forum than senatorial though, much more. Picture him with his special sauce smeared thumb ready to point down on the cybernats. Toga! Toga! Toga!

  253. goldenayr says:

    Oh wow.

    Dougie(sister backstabber)Alexander scaring pensioners live on air.

  254. call me dave says:

    Your Call BBC.

    Mr Dougie Alexander three times has been asked what is Labour’s plan ‘B’ after independence. He can’t answer!

    Second question on OAP . Danny waffles and has to be reminded by the presenter that her pension rights have been assured.

    Same old Labour.

  255. Elizabeth says:

    An old lady on the phone in obviously worried about what will happen to her pension and Douglas Alexander fearmongering as hard as he’s able. What a rat when he kens fine her pension will be fine. Grrrrr !

  256. gerry parker says:

    @ david.
    e mail means I’ll get you on the circulation list.

    replacing the dot’s and the at with the appropriate symbol.

  257. Luigi says:

    Carmichael says he’d resign on a Yes win, (what else could he do?) and join Salmond’s negotiation team.

    He could make the coffee.

  258. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland GMS phone-in guest is Douglas Alexander. The programme is only five minutes old and he has mentioned postal votes three times.

    Then, just before the break for the news, a concerned pensioner phones in, worried about her pension payments if it was a YES vote.

    This was obviously a planted question, so you stewed on it while the news was on.

  259. SquareHaggis says:

    Grima Snake-tongue on Morning Call.

  260. Capella says:

    Thanks for link. The Today presenter (approx 8.15 – 8.30) mentioned the business pro Indy letter but the ONLY content they mentioned was the unequal embassy charges claim. They then went on to refute that claim. Implication being those pro indy business people are incompetent, ignorant or liars. No other content discussed. Shameful piece of BBC propaganda. The Today programme isn’t available yet otherwise i could find the actual time of the piece. Will post when available.

  261. Arabs for Independence says:

    Luigi says:

    Carmichael says he’d resign on a Yes win, (what else could he do?) and join Salmond’s negotiation team.

    He could make the coffee.

    He can’t – that will be Darling’s job

  262. call me dave says:

    I believe that Mr Alexander is heading for a car crash, it’s not going that well for him so far. It’s hard to defend the present Labour party both South of and especially North of the border.

    Passports, don’t callers do any research of their on, again Dougie fails to give the correct info, preferring to muddy the water… Yup car crash getting nearer.

  263. galamcennalath says:


    Just read that. Astonishing. UK trade organisations can use embassy facilities free, Scottish Development get charged.

    Why haven’t we heard more about this outrage?

  264. dodecostanza says:


    It was discussion on the Courier’s Facebook site, under the story about “furious scenes at Jim Murphy” (furious haha, some people need to get less sensitive…heckling politicians has gone on for years in Dundee, going back to Churchill’s time)

    if you google “chokka blog wee book of lies” you’ll see the bloh they pointed to, and tbh I found difficult to come up with an argument against, seeing as this chokka fella is quoting GERS figurs too.

    All help appreciated thanks

  265. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Another Union Dividend says:
    The Scotsman online has banned not only any links but also the use of the words wings over scotland.

    I have just managed to make a comment (on the Jim & Jack ‘Highlands’ story) including a TinyURL link to the Wee Blue Book.


  266. benarmine says:

    Just listened to Douglas Alexander scaremongering a 70 year old on their pension on Radio Scotland. I know why he’s doing it but surely the interviewer Louise is aware the UK government has guaranteed pensions? If not, how can she be in any position to do her job?

  267. hadrianswall says:

    Why are GMS putting No voters through to Alexander. Even Alexander has to preface his answers with ‘ you need to ask the Yes campaign’

  268. Robert Peffers says:

    I’ve been going to bed a bit earlier over the past week or so as the wee dog starts making herself a head nipper wanting to her bed. So the early sma hours saw me lying awake and thinking. My thoughts were to consider what was now my own main motivation for wanting Scottish independence. As I slipped into the land of nod the answer was clear. The once bipartite Union that the Kingdom of Scotland had signed up to in 1706/7 has now been engineered by the once bipartite union of kingdoms into a quadratic union of four countries.

    The obvious fly in that ointment was that Westminster is still the legally bipartite Union Parliament but is actually now the de facto parliament of the country of England and it is arrogantly dispensing its powers as English powers to the three other countries they now treat as subservient regions of an England they see as being the renamed United Kingdom. We, “The United Kingdom”, are no longer either a bipartite union of Kingdoms nor are we a real Federal union of countries. To his credit the only political person, so far, who has told us the truth in public is the only remaining Token Tory David Mundell who said, “The Treaty of Union has extinguished Scotland and renamed England as the United Kingdom”.

    There is the truth writ large – In the Better Together mindset Westminster, The United Kingdom parliament of England is the renamed former bipartite United Kingdom now divided up as three devolved regions of England being the master country devolving, (and regaining at will), England’s gift of powers to their three subservient country of England regions.

  269. John H. says:

    Sorry o/t. Does anyone know where I can find a large Yes saltire flag in the Glasgow area.A friend has a flat facing Pacific Quay, and he want’s to improve their view.

  270. call me dave says:

    In case folk are not aware the FM is on the programme later.

    I am sure the questions will be harder but the answers will be better and more truthful.

  271. Muscleguy says:


    It’s the sugar, it’s not just empty calories:

    1. It screws your appetite, especially your sense of fullness, of satiety.

    2. The constant insulin spikes make you ultra ‘thrifty’ in your metabolism. You seek store as much energy as possible and do as little as necessary.

    3. As you put on weight and become sedentary your muscles fill up with fat, inside the muscle cells. When they do this they will actively exclude glucose, will pump it back out rather than take it up. This is the basis of peripheral insulin resistance, the precursor to Type I. It also makes you sluggish as burning fat in your muscles takes more oxygen per calorie than burning glycogen.

    It’s a vicious circle.

    When you realise sugar is all over the place including where it shouldn’t be. There is sugar in the flavouring on your crisps for eg. How else do they get that unholy trinity of fat, salt and sugar onto your tongue. It’s also why there’s plenty of salt in your cream bun along with the fat and sugar. It has been shown to be addictive, punches the same dopamine reward pathway as other addictive things.

    What are we all going to do when the high of winning the referendum dissipates, there are no doors to chap in search of the reward of Yessers or an undecided, no stalls to man, no leaflets to hand out etc? I have running to keep me going.

  272. Molly says:

    I can’t link but there’s a list if you google FT.

    One of the people who has signed it is the Chief Executive Officer from the Co-operative bank. Seriously this guy is questioning the uncertainty?

    Does he really think customers have forgotten the ‘uncertainty’ of the Rev Flowers for Pete’s sake?

    One thing for Mr Booker that is certain , is the Co-operative bank has been mismanaged and as a customer I’m certain I’ll pay absolutely Hee haw attention to his signature being there.

    As for the rest , they claim to be International and national company’s , yet are worried they will not be able to trade with our nearest neighbours?

  273. biggpolmont says:

    Ah wee dougie has just come away with the latest lie. That the ammount of debt the UK owes is not the fault of the union
    Since its been the uk that has been running the economy up to now I cannot see its anyone elses fault.

  274. CameronB Brodie says:

    I thought it was the Heckler in the mills that gave the practice it’s name. They used to be quite vocal apparently, during trade disputes.

  275. Luigi says:

    “Scotland defaulting on it’s debt” seems to be the latest BT spin.

    Scotland has no debt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  276. heedtracker says:

    Plan B for the union will be finally dealt with tonight by Tory boy No.1 in Glasgow, with Cameron hammering in a final nail in Bliar’s ghastly campaign although they may still have that last indy killing BT pamphlet waiting to go that actually is capable of terrifying everyone in Scotland to move to England en masse, Scotland then becoming a large shooting estate for the royal family and Cameron ofcourse.

    “We want you to stay” “we want to run Scotland for you”

    “We love Scotland but less so the actual Scots”

    “We simply know that you can’t run Scotland up here, its genetic you see”

    “I hold in my hand a letter of more powers, believe me when I tell you, Scottish independence is over in our time”

    “Ich bin ein Glaswegian”

  277. benarmine says:

    No challenge on the debt default nonsense either. Pathetic.

  278. Robert Louis says:


    Carmichael couldnae polish Salmond’s shoes never mind make his coffee.

    Danny Alexander is currently bag carrier for Osborne, so he has experience at that.

    Fact is these people are talentless individuals, with little to offer a negotiating team. Maybe Danny Alexander could go back to his previous job as spokesperson for the Cairngorm National park.

    Funny how they are all starting to talk about joining the YES negotiating team. Like rats fae a sinking ship.

  279. Capella says:

    yes the charging of Scottish business for embassy services is outrageous if English businesses are not charged. But that is what the BBC this morning denied. The BfS article was written in 2012 so situation may have changed, Or maybe not.

  280. Luigi says:

    Douglas Alexander, please pay attention:

    It’s our pound and it’s your debt.

    Be reasonable and we will help you out.

  281. ronnie anderson says:

    Put my call in 15mins ago to Bbc Scot, will I hing in there or will I go fur a shower, whits the odds on a call back.

  282. Robert Louis says:

    Remember folks, keep a sharp eye out for agents provocateurs, and people wearing YES badges (but who are not YES supporters at all), trying to give the campaign a bad name.

    Don’t fall for it. It is Westminster’s tactic of choice.

  283. caz-m says:

    Talking to a NO voting, very strong Rangers supporting, Scottish Labour voter two weeks ago. He was typical NO voter, hated Alex Salmond, more immigration, bla bla… Tried my best with him, but didn’t have any luck.

    Then met him yesterday and to my surprise he has now moved to voting YES. He said he watched Alex Salmond debate and that reassured him on a good few things.

    Honestly, if this guy has changed his vote to a YES, then every NO voter is there for the turning.

    He is now wanting window posters and car stickers from me.

    Message to Douglas Alexander.

    The majority of Scottish Labour supporters WILL vote YES on 18th September.

  284. call me dave says:

    Safer and less risk to go it alone says a caller who may, or may not be a labour supporter.

    Cliff, that’s his name, says he doesn’t believe Dougie.

  285. john king says:

    dodecostanza says
    “Could someone please point me to somewhere online (maybe WOS, maybe elsewhere) to help with this:”

    The support is right there in the book dode, every thing has a link to where the information is to be found, or is your freind then going to say the everyone is lying?

  286. bunter says:

    This morning is the first time I have smelled their fear. The DR running front page with Archie McPherson and now David Cameron coming up to warn the natives.

    There are polls coming out this weekend, no doubt. Will be interesting.

  287. call me dave says:

    Headline news! Dougie’s new powers are not new at all!

    He only just quoted the ones already in the pipeline.

    FM is on tomorrow not today, sorry misheard earlier.

  288. Robert Louis says:


    That is great news. Slowly and surely, the message is getting out via word of mouth. Once people find out how much Westminster and the media are lying to them, they become definite YES voters. Independence is the only way to make change happen.

    Scotland is a very wealth country, but right now our money goes to London where it is wasted, leaving parts of Scotland blighted with poverty. Independence will let us create a better, fairer Scotland, where our money and resources are used to benefit Scotland, instead of paying for upgrades to London’s sewer system, and building a rail link across central London.

  289. Col The Viking says:

    Hi All

    Bit O/T here…..

    Was doing some doors last night, my wee bundle of streets a bit of a tough gig

    Was also doing a bit of surfing around PollingReport and a few other more UK-centric sites and realised I needed a bit more back up on a couple of topic which I am hopeful the Wingers can point me to in quick time!

    Setting aside all the comments on theses sites that they never said we couldn’t use the Pound they are really adamant that even without a currency union iScotladn would be taking on a share of the debt and they would retain additional assets to that equivalent in any final, negotiated settlement.

    Furthermore they were really strong that we would be ‘defaulting’ from day 1 and no-one would touch us, no borrowing, disaster, etc

    Finally they all have a special place for AS in their black hearts saying he was just securing his leadership position in the debate, that since he didn’t get devo max on the ticket he doesn’t actually want to win the vote as he wouldn’t want to take on the stewardship of an iScotland in these ‘uncertain times’.

    Any links for the first two points gratefully received, third point is really a demonstration of some of the opposite thinking out there….


  290. Luigi says:

    This morning is the first time I have smelled their fear.

    And at the same time, there seems to be a wonderful sense of hope and inspiration building among the population at large.

    BT started this long, hard campaign with every advantage imaginable, and yet they keep trying hard to lose it. The might just succeed.

    Quite a few undecideds and soft NO’s have come out for YES this week. Even some hard NO’s are now wavering. There is a feeling of change in the air. It has been building slowly and quietly. The pressure has been building and Monday’s debate seems to have opened the gate.

    The times they are a changin.

  291. Robert Peffers says:

    Let me put this wee idea to you. The United Kingdom, according to Better Together, going to give Scotland more powers, which to date are only those already given. Yet they try to tell us we will get treated fairly.

    Tell that to the Highland’s & Islands where the United Kingdom companies often charge residents well over the odds to deliver goods, Yet at the same time the UK charges the companies in those areas well over the odds for delivering electric power into the south of England. The current charging regime means that, for example, an energy provider in Peterhead, Aberdeenshire would have to pay £20 per kw for a grid connection while London-based energy provider would be subsidised by £3 per kw. It is estimated that Scottish based companies currently pay £100 million more than they should as a result. So the UK charge extra to deliver things to Scotland and charge extra for things they deliver to Scotland.

    Give me a minute while I check for buttons or zips up the back o ma heid. Naw! Nae buttons or zip oan ma heid – how about you?

  292. Jim McIntosh says:


    “he’s just a f####ng liar”

    It’s a pity his earlier points were good.

  293. Robert Louis says:


    The person you are engaging with is citing a piece of clever sophistry by BT. The reliable comparitor for money out/money in is the percentage as cited by the YES campaign. Why? Because the UK like most economies runs a deficit, that is, as a whole, it spends more than it gets in in taxes overall (across the UK).

    So if you look at actual money amounts (cash), you would think that Scotland gets more back in money terms than it puts in, but this is down to the deficit the UK economy runs and is not unique to Scotland.

    Therefore, the only safe way to compare taxes and money spent is via the percentage share out. Labour know this and Better together know this, but both choose to deceive people with their nonsense.

    Just for the record, as an economy, Scotland runs a lower per capita deficit than rUK, so from day one iScotland would be better off.

    There are more detailed explanations of all of this at business for Scotland, but it can get complex. As others above have pointed out, it sounds like the person is a rigid unionist, and possibly no amount of explaining will help him – maybe becoming a waste of campaigning time. As the saying goes, ‘there are none so blind as those who will not see’.

    PS if anybody spots an error in this, please say.

  294. goldenayr says:


    Hmmm…it would appear I’m already blocked.Must’ve destroyed his argument somewhere else.

    Right,the best argument is the fact that GERS is based on HMTreasury figures.The Treasury have already admitted that they have no mechanism to accurately record,the revenue,of Scotland.They take what is visible i.e. what taxes are paid by business and individuals here.They don’t take into account monies earned by businesses HQd in e.g. London.

    “The oil and gas industry is worth £40-50 billion a year to the treasury”

    Sir Iain Wood last year.

    Now square that with the figure The Treasury say the oil is worth to Scotland.

    There are many more examples.His postulations that our income is only £700 is laughable.Mathematicians can prove that 1+1=3,they can do it in reverse as well.

  295. john king says:

    I support the SNP
    I am a member of the SNP
    But if Alex Salmond thinks for one minute I or many other people will stand for him inviting people like Darling and Carmichael into the negotiating team in a all is forgiven kinda thing,
    he’s got another think coming,
    those people dont represent me now and
    they certainly wont be representing me after a yes vote

  296. Elizabeth says:

    Great guy on morning call, nailing DA for deliberately frightening the old lady re pensions. Unfortunately he spoilt it it by calling DA an f***** liar. He is, but not necessary to say so on air. Would offend so many people.

  297. dodecostanza says:

    Thanks for the answers guys I will read and digest.

    I take your point about not arguing with committed unionists (and I agree with that in general).

    But I’m more thinking about when I will be shortly handing out WBBs in my street/area and if this argument comes up again, I’d like to have the facts/argument to reply with.

    Rather than floundering a bit as I did yesterday.

    Cheers again

  298. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Great stuff – the questioning has been superb. People are so clued-up. DA is simply not used to dealing with real people who also happen to be driven, intelligent, and genuinely angry. He’s coming apart at the seams here…

  299. goulashman says:

    The NO campaign is trying to confine concerns to purely fiscal issues and economic vested interest – appealing to basic self-interest in the hope the large questions are ignored – social justice, the erosion of civil rights under Westminster, the removal of the welfare protection of the vulnerable, environmental depredation, Trident and so much vital more. Hopefully YES can stress this clearly enough in the remaining days. Perhaps people ARE waking up to this? The Scottish Secretary is already planning his leap from Westminster barque – and the oleaginous Cameron ventures a sortie up here – far stronger support for YES than the Unionist pollings have dared recognise? This is really getting exciting! Real hope on this cloudy day and for our imperilled politic!

  300. caz-m says:

    Dougie Alexander talking about further education colleges in Paisley, where he is the absent MP. Reid Kerr College has had millions spent on it over the last couple of years and is flourishing.

    Alexander has got to be the biggest bull shitter in Scotland.

  301. Jim McIntosh says:

    I’ve lost count of the number things wee dougie “genuinely believes” in.

  302. Robert Louis says:

    col the viking,

    The debt belongs to rUK, and this has been confirmed by George Osborne himself, as cited in the Financial Times.

    Thus in international banking terms, if iScotland paid none of the debt, they would be in default of nothing, as the debt belongs to rUK. So this notion of default, and nobody doing business with iScotland is pure bunkum. Besides, bankers go where they think they can make a fast buck – morality doesn’t come into the equation.

    The offer by the Scottish Government to pay a pro rata sum towards the debt is no more than a goodwill gesture, and in the real world, following a YES vote, that is what will happen – as will a currency union.

    This is covered in the negotiations section of the wee blue book.

    If the person won’t believe the Financial Times, then they are just wasting your time.

  303. Robert Louis says:

    John King,

    Get a grip.

  304. Robert Louis says:

    Luigi at 0942,

    I agree. The BT campaign does appear to be getting somewhat chaotic. As other have out it, it seems that despite having every possible advantage, BT are about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    They must be mad, considering the terrible week they have had, to bring posh boy David Cameron up again.

  305. gerry parker says:


    Try this.

  306. caz-m says:

    So far, the only offer on the table after a NO vote, is tax rises.

    Alexander is telling us if we want to fund anymore infrastructure projects, then you will have to put your income tax levels up.

    You don’t here of Londoners getting told that they will be paying more in income tax to fund all these massive infrastructure projects taking place down there.

    Just the halfwit Scots, isn’t that right Mr Alexander.

  307. JLT says:

    Arabs for Independence says:

    Just listened to James Naughtie on GMS arguing with guy who said that England subsidises Scotland – Naughtie got tore into him and said Scotland pays in more than it gets out!!

    I heard that too! Naughtie was brutal with him.

    Naughtie : ‘What about the Scottish Tax Receipts? Are they in your figures?’

    English Pro-Indy Guy : ‘The people of England are saying they pay more in taxes than Sco…’

    Naughtie : ‘No! What about the Scottish Tax Receipts? Do you have the figures?’

    English Pro-Indy Guy : ‘The English electorate have said…’

    Naughtie : ‘No! What about the Scottish Tax Receipts? Do you have the figures?’

    English Pro-Indy Guy : ‘Err… I don’t have them at hand…’

    In other words …you never had them. You’re talking absolute drivel. Another person who wants to punish Scotland without knowing the facts!

  308. Capella says:

    Today programme now available and the piece on charges from embassies is at 2 hrs. 21 mins 30 secs for 1 minute. He is refuting something that was said by someone earlier in the programme (which I haven’t heard yet).

  309. Janet W says:

    @ Malc & @ Molly

    No Happy Bunch

    Surprised by Co-op Bank too considering they were going to take over the TSB in Scotland before they suddenly were named a ‘bucket bank’, they must have had some interest in Independent Scotland otherwise why they would have been interested in the Scottish TSB’s?

  310. john king says:

    I take it from your response Robert yuo’ll be happy to allow people who have spent the last two years lying obfusacting and generally dismissing independence as a waste of time at best and a total disaster at worst using distortion and selective reasoning and then say let bygones be bygones?
    Robert why dont you follow your own advice.

  311. cearc says:

    I am with you there John King,

    I don’t see how anyone who has been campaigning against independence could be involved in negotiations.

    We know that many of them have movable loyalties and will go with whatever looks like the next well paid job (and some may even be good and useful negotiators) but our team need to be people whose loyalty was with Scotland regardless.

  312. heedtracker says:

    I heard that too! Naughtie was brutal with him. Me too. I think this is why Projectfear has failed. Instead of being straight with Scotland over finance, oil, EU etc, they’ve monstered everything.

    A sensible approach to it all would have been negotiating a devo max deal with full disclosure on state debts and earnings and people would have gone with that. Westminster liggers are never going to be anything other devious gits though.

    Now if it is a NO, they’ll never be able to stop the next referendum with the worst of austerity still to come.

  313. dodecostanza says:

    I just transcribed the opening remarks of (I’m sorry to say, my) Dundee MP Jim McGovern as he introduced Jim Murphy in Dundee yesterday.
    And this man managed to get himself elected….!


    Can I just say that I would like to welcome Jim Murphy here to Dundee.
    Jim’s gonna be telling you why on September 18th we should be voting No.
    We should be voting to stay part of the UK.
    We are much stronger as part of the UK and I’m sure the majority of people in Scotland realise that.

    What are we gonna have on September 19th if Scotland decides to separate?
    What will be in your pocket? The groat?
    There will be shops along there that will have to change their name to Groatstretcher and Groatland.
    The clocks will stop. There will be no longer British Summer Time, GMT.
    The clocks will stop at 13:14 if the SNP have their way.
    Let’s make it clear, we want to be part of the UK, we’re proud to be Scottish.

    I want you to listen to Jim Murphy.
    Thank you.

  314. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It looks very much like the Sun is coming for us. And, strange to say, the Herald today is pretty good for us for a change.
    The Record remains confused

  315. Edward says:

    Listened to the Morning Call with Douglas Alexander
    Alexander spouted crap after crap assertions without any query. It was basically a Vote No broadcast

    He spouted that Scotland’s biggest trading partner is England as it sends most of its goods to England
    That Ladies and Gentlemen is a load of crap there!

    Sending goods to England does not mean that England is Scotland’s biggest trading partner, not by a long chalk (or country mile). The reality is Scotland is forced to export its goods VIA English Ports and airports.

    (Regulars will note that this is my ‘hobby horse’ as it is my field of expertise)

    With more direct air routes, this traffic flow south will reduce. With development of better infrastructures including port facilities (like the one planned by Babcock’s for Rosyth) will further reduce the need to send goods south to ship out of English ports.

    Alexander spout crap on the topic of a future independent Scotland reneging on the UK debt (not challenged by a compliant Louise White). Ignoring the fact that the pound and the Bank of England is an asset which Scotland shares.

    At one point he was sounding as if he was speaking on behalf of England as he stated ‘we’ will not share the pound.

    There is a vast number of reasons for voting YES in 3 weeks time, not many reasons to vote No. But if anything, I want to see a massive YES vote, just to put that smug supercilious twat Alexander out of a job , along with the rest of the ‘New’ Labour clique

    Some say Alexander has a face that you would like to slap, not me I would like all these time servers to be lined up and proceed to a table to collect their P45’s, somewhere large like in front of the Scottish Parliament

  316. X_Sticks says:

    ronnie anderson says:

    “whits the odds on a call back.”

    Wi’ your reputation? Zip, nada, nil, zilch.

    At least after a shower you’ll smell better 😉

    @John King

    I don’t want any of the naysayers on the negotiations team either. They’ve made their beds and will have to LIE in them.

  317. goldenayr says:

    Re the Team Scotland negotiating invites.

    Personally,I think it’s clever play.Tell them they’re welcome,watch them squirm and then,when the YES comes in,tell them to take a hike.

    A lot of them like Darling and Alexander will take a safe seat in England or the HoL anyhoos.

  318. ronnie anderson says:

    10.25. Duggie alexander Bbc Scotland said Scotlands OIL FUND would have been wiped out by the RBS Financial crash, had we had a OILfund. So nothing to do with the FED pumping in £265 Billion then, or the Financial Markets in Londons £49 Billion, no mention of either.

  319. Jim McIntosh says:

    @john king, @cearc

    Re Carmichael – isn’t your attitude the same as the English saying they will make Scotland suffer for having the temerity to want self determination.

    We’re better than that.

  320. liz says:

    @Jim McIntosh – yes swearing does offend some people, but it’s much more offensive to lie to old age pensioners and I think a lot pf people will realise that.

    Wee Dougie is a waste of space, Paisley was the only town – that I know of – that suffered a credit crash during the boom years.

    @John King – I think AS saying that to AD was a master stroke because it showed that AS was a statesman and AD was a dick – I don’t think he will have any intentions of having flipper on board and I don’t think flipper would offer because if it is a Yes he will have lost all credibilty but he will be able to console himself with all the money he has screwed out of the British state.

  321. Robert Peffers says:

    Jim McIntosh says: 28 August, 2014 at 9:48 am:

    “Oops!! “he’s just a f####ng liar”. It’s a pity his earlier points were good.”

    I nearly wet myself laughing at that. Not at the lad’s use of normal street language but at the BBC’s attempted apologising for HIM. While the one doing the, “so sorry”, sat there spouting fibs for years without a single sign of an apology or even a slight blush on her smarmy, smug face.

  322. JLT says:

    This wee debate over Darling and Carmichael.

    Personally …I would hold out the olive branch, and here’s why.

    This country will be split. However, to heal it, we need to tell the Unionists that we are now fighting for their beloved things – the Queen, Sterling, open borders.
    Well, now here’s a chance for them to make sure that these things happen for the Unionists. If we bring these guys into the fold, negotiate things that the Unionists love, then it may just heal the nation that we bit quicker.

    If they refuse, then it’s sheer pettiness. However, Carmichael tells us he wants to be on the Yes Team so he can protect Shetland and Orkney. That’s fine. I understand that.
    But …if there is a whiff of some underhanded play going on, and he’s actually out to better himself, and himself only, then he’s out. Immediately! Off the team!

    HE can go back afterwards and see how his constituents treat him. If they want to somehow elect him in a Post-Yes Scotland, then that is up to his constituents.

    We need to forgive. We need to maintain the higher ideal.

  323. ronnie anderson says:

    Am taking the collection plate roon at the Service of Recosilly Ashuned an donating it tae resettlement for impoverished buisnessmen.

  324. CameronB Brodie says:

    What’s happened to Auntie?

    ‘Deeply elitist UK locks out diversity at top’

    In politics, half the House of Lords attended independent schools, along with 36% of the cabinet, 33% of MPs and 22% of the shadow cabinet.

    This compares with 7% of the UK population as a whole.

  325. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Louis says: 28 August, 2014 at 9:50 am:

    “PS if anybody spots an error in this, please say.

    Not errors, Robert, but omissions, many, many many omissions. No fault of yours,
    Robert, but of the Westminster chancers, Err! Chancellors. The rather creative system of accountancy is a deliberate obfuscation to hide the many tricks that have been thieving from Scots since 1st May 1707.

  326. cearc says:

    Jim McIntosh,

    No it is quite different.

    How can a team negotiating Scotlands best interests contain people who have actively campaigned to give away control of all our assets.

    Darling, Carmichael et all, are people who have full access to the UK governments thinking, game plan and figures.

    Despite having been elected to represent their constituents, they have deliberately chosen to lie to them for their own job/career prospects.

    It is nothing like the comments of English people who have not questioned the Gov/MSM line or English MPs, who ARE representing their constituents interests by wanting to keep Scotland’s wealth by fair means or foul.

  327. ronnie anderson says:

    How can we trust a Team GB politicion, no way would I trust them Let them Swear that They told lies to the Scottish People & the People of the rUK in print on TV, then I might consider changeing my opinion,see that Flying Pig its Flying without WINGS O S.

  328. JLT says:


    I would just let their constituents decide. One thing if Darling and Co want to be on Team Yes, is that they must ask their own constituents first if they would like the two of them (or any others who were in the No camp) to represent them on Team Yes. If they say No, then they’re out.

    But we need to try. We need to forgive. Like yourself, there were times I was in a blind fury with things they said …but …we must try and heal the nation quickly. I expect no real fallout. I have friends who are intending to vote No. If we win (or they win), I will still be friends with them.

    We need to be better than this. These guys know they have an awkward future. I don’t want to add anymore on to that. We get on. We move on. We build a better country.

  329. Paula Rose says:

    Now, when I was asked to be on the negotiating team I was asked if there was anything I needed, I replied –

    Darling, I’ll need a footstool.

    That might explain things.

  330. Col The Viking says:

    Thanks Robert Louis, and also for the ‘English for Yes’ you provided for my other post – much appreciated.

    Those others sites were also full of pish of how all the capital would flight, etc from our massive financial sector if we did and / or didn’t have a currency union or were using a Scottish pound pegged or free floating – again, is there any real substance to this or is it just forth?

    Again, I assume as HSBC, Citibank, etc operate globally they will be sued to dealing n different currencies and different financial products in different territories – sounds like a bit of scaring…would I be correct?

    Thanks again, the momentum is definitely with us!

  331. ronnie anderson says:

    @ X Sticks 10.31 ( whit reputation ) ur you cawin me pishy jist because I exude oder thats awe doon tae the Scare stories from Team GB, but I will have a Good Shower for the 19 th Sept party so,s thinking caps on Lads N Lasses we need a Big Wingers nite out.

  332. Fiona says:

    As the topic is being discussed here does anyone know how a post yes negotiating team will actually be selected?

    It seems perfectly obvious to me that such as Alistair Darling could not be part of it because he has absolutely no idea what any settlement should look like.

    For example, according to him we will not have any currency at all: he has no plan A for a currency after a yes vote. Nor does anyone else on the no side, so far as I can tell. Though they are not often asked, to be fair.

    What could such people contribute to negotiation? I am not being vengeful, I emphasise: it is just that they have less idea what we should aim for than my granny’s cat

  333. donald anderson says:

    Like most “wars” it one by creating allies, often with n naked bribery, land pensions, etc. That is how the MacDougals lost their land to the Campbells in the shifting alliances. That is probably what will happen in the peace, as loads of careerists closets suddenly claim they always were Indys.

    Someone said Carmichael should be given the office job of making coffee. That is too similar to his present job description on Dover Hoose, London, Engerland. I would have him scrubbing flerrs oan telly or posing for wimmen’s adverts as a Chippendale wi’ a Hoover.

  334. donald anderson says:

    I nominate McGlashan as Ambassador tae England.

  335. cearc says:


    It is not about forgiveness, it is about suitability for the job.

  336. cearc says:

    Paula Rose,

    Your fame has spread. Mp’s lining up to be your footstool. AC would be quite a cosy one.

    Mind you wear a long skirt or trousers though!

  337. john king says:

    “We’re better than that.”

    your right we ARE better than that, but asking the likes of
    Jimmy Hood who when convinced of the case for independence would STILL vote no to a better fairer Scotland is beyond the pale,
    and allowing those people to sit on the other side of the table to their erstwhile collegues and freinds is akin to telling the Germans to run their own Munich trials in 1946 in the spirit o reconciliation ye unnerstaun?
    oh and on the subject did the ANC fill its truth and reconciiation committees with Boers?

    “We need to forgive.”

    Theres forgiveness then theres blind stupidity JLT

    There are SNP MP’s in London people who on a weekly basis when the Westminster lot gather to jeer and laugh at Scotland who put up with it week in week out and are prepared to sacrifice their jobs for a better Scotland and we sit here and say alls fair in love and war?

    Why dont we ask Angus Robertson what he thinks?

  338. Robert Peffers says:

    @Col The Viking says: 28 August, 2014 at 11:26 am:

    “Again, I assume as HSBC, Citibank, etc operate globally they will be sued to dealing n different currencies and different financial products in different territories – sounds like a bit of scaring…would I be correct?”

    The point, Col The Viking”, may be better explained by the truth of why banks are registered in the first place. They must legally register in every country/state/kingdom they do business in for no other reason than The legal requirements to pay tax, to abide by their laws & abide by their regulations. Thus they pay tax to the treasuries wherever they do business.

    So consider the obfuscation of the liars who were so very, very happy to not only rake-in tax from these , “United Kingdom”, Banks when they were making the big profits and the UK governments who relaxed the laws and regulations to allow the Banks to maximise profits but immediately there was trouble these banks overnight became Scottish Banks”.

    Note also that when it came to the bail-outs each state these banks did business with bailed them out and the Bank of England, had no part of it. Darling used UK treasury money to contribute the United Kingdom’s share of the bail-out. Then the Tory/LibDem gained power and immediately increased the indirect taxes, (these effect mainly the poorest folks), and decreased the tax for the most rich.

    Only then did the BofE take a hand by, “Quantitative Easing”, (devaluing the pound), and buying up the Government issued bonds, (gilts). Then Westminster started the Austerity cuts that affected the sick, disabled, poor, old and even the working people on low wages. Figures prove it is the poor paying for the financial crisis while the rich have continued to become even richer.

    Sorry that is long but it should be simple enough for almost anyone to understand.

  339. Silverytay says:

    Fellow Wingers , I think we are getting ahead of ourselves discussing who will or will not represent us at the negotiations , lets win the final battle on the 18th first .

    After the 18th I will be fighting to have these parasites held to account by campaigning to have included in the written constitution that any politician or media who tell a deliberate lie be either kicked out of parliament or in the case of the media shut down .

    I am willing to consider a three strikes and your out strategy just as long as any apology is announced several times and as prominent as the original lie or mistake was .

  340. call me dave says:

    just watched this ‘Our time’ on the tube.

    Really a powerful message.

    Hope I’ve done the copy paste thing right ????

  341. john king says:

    I get your point silvertay,and your right, we have to win first,

    But one last question to the forgivers and forgetters
    how would you feel about letting bygones be bygones when the last act as a Scottish politician Darling instead of negotiating the best deal for Scotland negotiated a nice seat in the HOL for selling us down the river,
    do you feel lucky?
    well do you?

  342. HandandShrimp says:

    To be fair to Alistair Carmichael he was asked what he would do if asked to join the negotiating team if there was a Yes vote and he replied that if there was a Yes vote he would do everything he could to obtain the best for Scotland. I have a lot more sympathy with that position than I have with those that would seek to spike our water after a Yes a vote.

  343. muttley79 says:


    Alexander has got to be the biggest bull shitter in Scotland.

    There is a lot of competition…

  344. Probably been mentioned before ,
    But was it a coincidence AD said we could use the pound,
    and AS offered AD a job after Independence.

    AD knows the UK is over and done come the 18th ,he phones AS “I`ve got a little deal for you ”

    I think a lot of high ups in the NO camp wondered why he caved in on the “watch my lips NO Pound “.

    Their leader is leaving the field it`s everyone for themselves , leave it to late and there will be no forgiveness from us .

    `The Black Tent is about to come out` Ghengis Khan

  345. Tom Foyle says:

    Since I don’t have any family, (aye, ok, condolences on a postcard, please,) I’ll just have to let love of my (adopted) country sway my vote. Don’t think I can foresee any problems there.

  346. Edward says:

    It works call me dave
    everyone needs to get that spread out across all social networks 😀

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