What the hell now?
So, some official and very brief Wings analysis, because we just watched an army of pundits on the TV all missing the bleeding obvious and talking as if a delay to Brexit was now a done deal.
After tonight’s series of votes in the Commons, all five of which were technically won by Theresa May, there are three possible outcomes. Let’s whizz through them all.
————————————————————————————-
OPTION 1: BREXIT ON JUNE 30TH
Tonight’s final vote mandated the government to ask the EU for an Article 50 extension to June 30th in order to implement the Withdrawal Agreement if it passes in Parliament by next Wednesday.
We can’t see any chance of that happening, even if we assume the EU would grant it (which it probably would). 75 MPs would need to change their minds on the WA in the space of a week, and in so far as anything in the world makes sense any more, they’re not going to. We could be wrong, but it looks a total non-starter.
OPTION 2: MUCH LONGER DELAY
This is the second outcome provided for by the motion. It requires the UK to come up with a very good reason for the EU to grant a much longer extension – realistically, the only plausible ones are a second referendum or a general election. The Conservative Party would absolutely implode if either of those things came to pass, and public fury would be considerable.
Even if there were to be an election it probably wouldn’t solve anything anyway, but it’s what we’d do if we were the Tories, because it’d tear Labour in two as well. Be that as it may, though, we can’t see turkeys voting for this particular Christmas. The Tories would need a new leader and we doubt they fancy that battle right now, never mind the chance of losing their own seats.
So either the government will just fail to ask the EU for a long extension, or will do so cursorily, without a decent reason, forcing the EU to run out of patience and refuse.
OPTION 3: NO-DEAL BREXIT IN 15 DAYS
If that transpires, Brexit goes ahead on 29 March, as Theresa May has repeatedly and doggedly insisted that it would, but with no deal. The Tories will be able to blame the EU for refusing an extension, and much of the UK media will back them up.
Brexit will happen, however messily, so Theresa May won’t go down in history as the PM who failed to deliver the “will of the people”, which is the thing that terrifies her the most. Of three unpleasant options, no-deal is probably the one that does the least damage to the Tories, and they’ll appeal to the electorate to deploy the Blitz Spirit and get through these difficult times together, yada yada yada.
————————————————————————————-
Option 1 is a dead duck. Option 2 rips the Conservative Party to shreds and requires the Tories to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Option 3 fulfils what they claim is their duty to enact the referendum result, with a hideous outcome but crucially one which can be blamed on someone else.
(Not just the EU but also opposition and rebel Tory MPs who didn’t vote for the WA.)
Based on what you know of this government, readers, which of those do you think is the most plausible? Yeah, us too.
“realistically, the only plausible ones are a second referendum or a general election.”
Or an Indy Ref, which affects the UK Consitution of the A50 invocation.
Yep, seems to be it in a nutshell.
“Or an Indy Ref, which affects the UK Consitution of the A50 invocation.”
I said realistically.
Watching Guy’s speech in your previous post, I’m inclined to think the answer to a delay will be a resounding NO.
I hope that is what happens, and who can blame them.
No deal Brexit in 15 days, followed by Indyref2 (with or without Westminster’s blessing).
Bring it on!
Can I have option 4 please?
With salt, vinegar and a pickled onion?
Or Option 4 we just all keep watching Westminster vote on May’s deal ad infinitum, or until at least we all die of chronic boredom.
Yep, and leaving the Tories in Government, free to indulge their colonial fantasies.
“Nicola sweetie-pie” (croak), “the EU is saying no to an extension, is there any chance you could ask again for that S30 Order?” (croak). “We’ll whip it through in days”.
HoC just decisively voted against a second referendum. Labour abstained although 17 Labour MPs voted against, along with the Tories.
Lol, Nigel Farage is already building his army up for the battle ahead.
link to twitter.com
Changes seat belt for parachute …..
The end is near.
Skrypal2
A giant Russian jobby attacks London.
Leask was right
@yesindyref2
You might have something there. Interesting.
“I said realistically”
I know but Rev, does the word “realistically” apply to anything at all about Brexit and the UK Parliament goings-on? We’re living in the land of make-believe and pink oceans.
@ScottieDog
It’s a scenario I’ve been playing with for months.
We should demand Europe recognises Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, and further recognise that remaining in Europe was the democratically expressed will of the sovereign Scottish people.
Brexit that defies the will of the people is an act of colonial subjugation contrary to international law, and constitutes a formal and irremediable breach of the Treaty of Union. Brexit by itself is ultra vires, since it exceeds Westminster’s Constitutional competence to subject Scotland to Brexit against it’s will.
On 29th March, England and Wales exits Europe on their own. Scotland remains in Europe, initially in the holding pen capacity first mooted in 2016, pending the formal dissolution of the United Kingdom and formal consolidation of Scotland’s independent EU membership.
I do hope Nigel Farage gets involved all over the Telly spouting his bile, folk’ll be beating down the FMs door screaming for Independence rather than having any more of that guy
Brexit has become less about National Interest, and more about preserving your well paid job at Westminster.
That about sums it up.
Gin traps down around the grounds, trip wires out in the woods…
No deal it is then (and always was. That, or no Brexit)
Sounds like all that’s left is the blame game. The Tories and their media will try to make shite stick to everyone and everything except those who caused this fiasco.
@Breeks
That’s the spirit, but not “demand”, ask diplomatically and investigate over a period of months. Wonder if that’s actually happened already?
frogesque says:
14 March, 2019 at 7:31 pm
Can I have option 4 please?
With salt, vinegar and a pickled onion?
One amendment: Salt, *sauce* and a pickled onion, if you please.
If there was another General Election, I predict it will see the lowest voter turn out in living memory. People are just so fed up with the whole thing, even a sunny day wouldn’t tempt them out.
I think the 9 might be interesting the next few days.
Listening to your previous ‘end of rope’ broadcast from the EU Parliament suggests to me the EU will NOT agree to extend Brexit as Wesminster wants if simply to avoid give Farage voice hyjacking the EU Elections AND looking longer term the very real prospect the UK will return to the EU at some point in the foreseeable future.
If the exit is moved to the end of June then there has to be elections to the European Parliament in the UK. Would that be hijacked by those wanting it to be a proxy exit/remain?
Option 3 is 7/1 on paddy power. Be like Reece-mogg, make some money on this clusterfuck.
Option 2,with a “peoples vote” seems wisest,but we don’t seem to have a wise government. In normal times this government would implode,but it won’t. It’s too thick to know it’s dead.
In order to have an extension,they would have to able to prove they are going to use the time sensibly,but is too scared to call either a General Election or re-run the Brexit referendum.
We have,from Scotlands viewpoint,a uk government that we didn’t vote for,kept in power by a party we can’t vote for,pushing through a policy that will actually damage the Scottish economy,that Scotland also didn’t vote for.
How is that NO vote working out there,Scotland?
Mmm, finally a tweet from Sturgeon:
link to twitter.com
Aweright yesindyref2…
Aye and if that came to pass, it would ONLY be for May to jointly-agree to it. Our Scottish Government will be in full control of setting all criteria for our question (which will be the seamus befhor) and future chosen dates.
In doing so, we will permit their MSM to participate in our referendum, by way of campaigning, just like the Yes side are already doing.
What the hell, NOW!
If, if Labour achieve any sort of deal, will they be prepared to put it to the people versus remain.
No need to answer, its patently obvious Corbyn wants leave.
Anyways I’m off to work, don’t think we’re there just yet. More WM shamble votes to come!
Option 3 it’s a no brainer. Also allows May to get another week closer to 29th. Can’t believe the media and opposition haven’t worked this out yet. Nicola should make a statement tomorrow. But she won’t.
@Cactus
Yes, but May could set a fairly short end date on it, to fit in with any Brexit extension length, that would be sensible, and reasonable.
My suspicion? No Deal is the preferred option for the Tories and has been so for the last two years.
Aye. It will ravage manufacturing and agriculture and lower the living standards of countless people for decades to come.
But it will enlarge the pool of desperate workers willing to work for a pittance. It will thus further enrich the already wealthy. It will also provide a pretext for “emergency measures” such as wholesale cuts to public services and lower taxes for the rich.
Best of all? It can be blamed on dastardly foreigners rather than the self-destructive idiocy of the voters of England and Wales.
Fasten your seatbelts Scotland…
I have thought all along it would be a no deal hard Brexit. Will the people accept that, really? A majority of people in the UK want to stay in the EU. The lying scheming troughers who are dragging us out of the EU need to be held to account, but they will not be. They will though have their private jets ready to escape the carnage that awaits the so called UK.
In other countries people get angry, they oust a rogue government, they don’t accept their fate if at all possible.
Scotland is collateral, and the future with a Tory regime looks very bleak from what I can see, if we continue to be shackled to the cesspit so called ‘UK’.
Even a no voting friend sent me a postcard with the quote ‘while 100 of us are alive…’ with a nice saltire on it. That is a surprise and a welcome one.
Rabbit and tatties to eat, for the next few years, anyone?
It’s a disgrace and those responsible need to look at themselves, because future generations will daub their graves with graffiti telling the world just what souless, selfish, greedy troughers they were! Let’s not allow this to go down in history as any sort of victory! Never!
As a side note, anyone got plans for 29th March? It might be a sad day to say the least.
I disagree I’m afraid. I think Mays deal will sneak through next week and we will be out after a technical delay. Then again, the only thing you can say with certain tithe about Westminster is you can’t trust anything they say
Option 4: We revoke A50. OK, granted, it’s probably not likely there would be a majority in WM for it, but we can, and it’s not impossible.
Neatly summed up. I’ve always thought that that’s where we’re headed.
Oh what tangled webs we weave… According to Carole Cadwalldre on Twitter, Arron Banks has been off skiing in the heart of lega Nord territory in Italy. She seems to be implying that ‘some people’ may be asking some other countries political parties( with similar vested interests) to use their influence and vote against any request for an extension.
STV Halla actually has a really good podcast( Outwith) explaining a bit of background about politics in Italy and France but anyway however boring it sounds by not addressing the circumstances of the external influences on the Brexit vote, by trying to save the Tory party at all costs,the U.K. Govt may find a few more complications.
This is only the exit to the U.K. wait til the real stuff starts and whether we stay, leave, vote for a people’s vote or even a GE how the hell can they put humpty together again ?
Fair doo’s and Yes it would seem reasonable too yesindyref2.
Latest polls show Yes Scotland NOW OVER 50% for indy.
=bbs=
No deal has looked most likely to me for a while now, simply because I haven’t seen any way that it could be prevented from happening.
I’ve been saying for AGES that the whole plan was to demand impossible things, fail to get them and then storm out, blaming the EU for everything. No Deal would force Ireland to erect border infrastructure, which suits the DUP perfectly, as well as anti-GFA BritNats like Gove and Rees-Mogg. She’s said since day one that No Deal is better than a bad deal. She’s hoping that one message has sunk in.
Option 3 is good, no? It’s the fastest route to triggering the manifesto clause, “… such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”
I’ve never understood why people talk about ‘taking no-deal off the table’. (maybe i’m missing something). Until there is a deal, then no-deal is what we have – and given that the government seems incapable of negotiating a deal that everyone can agree with, it’s hard to see how crashing out without a deal can be avoided.
Post-irony exponentially off the scale. Armando Giovanni Iannucci’s writing career is over.
Catastrocluster-bourach? The wheels on the bus go round and round…, until they career off the road straight into the sheugh.
Brace. Brace.
Rev. Stuart Campbell @ 19:31:
Yes, I know, I know. Why not, we can only guess. Whether judged by the-powers-that-be as politically ineffective, constitutionally ineffective, or simply an opportunity overlooked.
Or maybe constitutionally potent after all, just being kept under wraps and all the better for being generally judged irrelevant.
A forlorn glimmer of hope, perhaps, but I for one would really appreciate some stalling of Brexit somehow due to matters Scottish. Just to put the cat among the pigeons, and give us a decent handle on the issue that we currently lack.
I’ve been on the record here for thinking – against the odds – that May might eventually corral enough support to win her “deal”, but barring anything out of left field, even I can’t help but feel that a default no-deal is creeping ever closer by the day.
Which is the necessary clarity, at least. But with what time left to do anything useful about it?
ScottieDog, we will be engulfed by the splatter from said Jobby 🙁
Nicola said any delay to Brexit would not alter her plans for Indy ref2. I hope she was being sincere.
There is a fourth dimension, ( where have I heard that before ! )
I agree with option three but in addition would like to say that leaving without a deal leaves Ireland with the south in the EU and the north out of the EU.
This will lead to Westminster and the EU having further negotiations on a border across Ireland to define where the EU starts and ends and what kind of border it will be ,it has to happen and I reckon it is likely that Westminster will refuse to cooperate and the EU will then have to decide how to carry out border checks without breaking the good Friday agreement, turning the tables as it were.
A Westminster out of the EU will even more difficult to negotiate with than a Westminster in the EU so I expect trouble in Ireland once this filters through.
‘Brexit latest: MPs to vote on giving UK public second referendum.’
…”However, it is unlikely to pass unless it is supported by the Labour leadership and around 25 Conservative rebels. Labour’s position on another referendum has been unclear in recent days, with shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer saying he was “proud” to support one while shadow education secretary Angela Rayner said it would be “disastrous”.”….
link to independent.co.uk
Has that vote been held already? Can’t keep up. Losing track here, lol.
link to twitter.com
Some mythical being returns in the flesh at Easter!
Or May’s deal gets reluctantly voted through next week.
In the absence of any sensible choice, pish wins by default.
I say good luck to England with genuine good wishes for the future of the English people.
I also say goodbye, please come up and vist now and again.
We in Scotland after Independence have to stand ready to assist the English refugees who will increase from the present flow to the undoubted torrent.
We have to make serious plans for this likely event.
The end is now in sight.
If nothing else, today’s a fab opportunity to sneak out the dirty truth.
So, Sir David Steel knew about Cyril Smith and did sfa, and now we learn the establishment knew about Saville, and were only concerned about him bringing the honours system into disrepute.
“The committee that recommends people for knighthoods received allegations of child sexual abuse against Jimmy Savile in 1998, an inquiry has heard.
link to bbc.co.uk
With option 3 will come a lavish portion of old fashioned Brit ‘patriotism’. Sadly, it has a tendency to work. Expect sly Scots Gove and Fox, who lately seem to have springs in their respective steps, to be banging the drums and Queen and family to be dancing in rhythm. As of old it will be Britannia contra mundum. The media, of course, will do their duty and fully aid and abet.
Unless that lifeboat Scottish Spring arrives soon we’ll be swept along too.
The establishment has had only a heart flutter, alas.
@Richard Hunter 8.33pm
I understood it as making a statement of political intent backed up with legislation to ensure we do not leave without a deal. There would then have to be revocation of article 50 or a delay for a good reason (new government, another referendum). None of which seems likely.
As you say, if nothing can be agreed, because they triggered article 50 we leave 2 years after with or without a deal.
I really don’t see parliament voting for May’s deal, those 2 defeats where not small majority’s they were record breaking thrashings. Can’t see ‘how’ the EU will just agree to such a short extension with no likelihood of her deal being accepted and they will not ‘renegotiate’ the deal itself. The parliament voted against a ‘people’s vote’ and as described atl they won’t call a GE for those stated reasons.
So there really aren’t any other ‘options’ available but to leave without a deal.
The EU seems to be ‘amenable’ to a longer extension ‘if’ the UK were to spend that time in finding a ‘technical’ solution to the backstop, thereby removing its original ‘red lines’ of either an election or second EU vote as the criterion for an extension. But they would be considering as long as 21 months to allow this process of developing a solution, not 3 months as has been bandied about by UK gov.
In effect we would still be in the EU during that ‘extension’ period.
“I shall either find a way or make one.” Hannibal Barca of Carthage.
Pretty sure NS has been doing the same re: IndyRef 2.
TMay has been doing a great job assisting her.
Spookily enough, I was shouting and waving….stuff… at that very prog earlier on.
You can lose more screens like that.
All the votes today were a waste of time. Everyone in Westminster knew that there was to be another meaningful vote next week, probably on Wednesday the last possible day before the EU council summit on the 21st.
My own opinion is that “her deal” will be defeated once more making today’s motion that she won with an extension until the end of June totally irrelevant.
Next weeks vote might be a lot closer than than other two, it is possible that the DUP and the majority of the ERG will cave in and support her deal but it still looks likely to lose.
This gives Westminster a huge headache, they want an extension but it will have to be agreed at this next EU council meeting, that really is the deadline. So I believe that next weeks vote will include an amendment to request an extension in the event of May’s deal losing once more. That amendment is likely to get enough support to win.
I think any extension will be until at least the end of this year and more likely even longer, if an extension is refused I still do not believe No deal will be the result but revocation of article 50 more likely even if it is required to have a vote of No confidence in May’s government to get rid of her first.
I just don’t see No deal as being acceptable to the majority of MP’s even if many of them are total buffoons not all of them are.
After today the next elections in Scotland should be SNP landslides.
BLiS______d now unelectable after ABSTAINING in the vote on giving UK public a 2nd EU referendum.
FibDems (already the Party of the proven Liar) now guilty of covering up the most heinous of crimes.
Tories now the last stand choice of the “Defence of the Precious Union, No Surrender to Independence Referendums” Hardcore Red, White, Blue & Orange BritNat Voter.
“Scotland Shite, ‘cos EssEnnPeeBaaad” BBC & Dead Tree Scrolls Propaganda will be turned up to 11 now!!
Objectively though, it is pretty poor analysis in the media. They have difficulty in following the arguments through. Could be ineptitude but more likely to be a desire to keep the ‘surprises’ coming & audience attention. One guy on bbc saying a long delay won’t please Macron, others saying Macron says a long delay is needed.
All bollocks. Can’t see why the ERG would back May now, why bother.
My opinion is Theresa Mays Deal will go through next week, the Tories will bind back together while Labour fragments even further. Theresa calls a GE as needs a strong and stable majority, wins a landslide in England.
Meanwhile in Scotland difficult to say, may cause Laour to support Independence, but it’s going to be messy with an emboldened right wing bunch of nutters in Westminster.
Is there any way at all the Red Lines could be dissolved making it a much softer Brexit for rUk and much more the kind of thing that the English MPs would find acceptable?
Could that yet happen?
Thinking that Hilary Benn’s amendment for parliament to wrest control of Brexit was lost by a very narrow margin and could that somehow still come about? A sort of parliamentary rebellion/mutiny?
Brexit would still happen and Scotland would still be heading for Independence as soon as possible!
@ Petra – maybe you’ve caught up by now but, yes the votes were held. Labour abstained on the vote to have a PV although 17 Labour rebels voted with the Tories to defeat the amendment.
So no PV.
The good news is Luke Graham has a CCTV camera at his constituency office entrance covering the front door and window. If he hands over this footage to the police I’m sure they will be able to track down his harassers tout suite.
I’m sure we will all be relieved when this footage is shown in court.
Thepnr @ 9.27
Oh I don’t know so much Alex!!
While the legislation is still there, all it would take is for May to keep them confused and bickering long enough so that the MPs can’t stop no deal “just happening”. ..
No deal is also their last best shot at holding on to us.
Without a transition period ” Westminster rules “, and, some of them have been saying in the last few days debates that they won’t countenance the Union they’ve just left telling them what to do!!
It sounds like that’s “The” real problem with Mays deal,N.Ireland is just the peg they hang it on.
The SNP have been makin it clear another Indy ref is very much on the card’s and they are pretending not to be paying any attention,but worry about how that’s going to go has to be in there too!I
A period of chaos with no oversight from the EU before they start to negotiate their new trade deal,might be just what they need to attempt to lock down Scotland?
[…] Wings Over Scotland What the hell now? So, some official and very brief Wings analysis, because we just watched an army of […]
“Of three unpleasant options, no deal is probably the one that does the least damage to the tories,….@
One of my reasons why I have thought no deal was a likely outcome. This whole leaving the EU is down to the same thing – saving the Tory party. Retention of power at Westminster.
Another is that the Tories don’t give a dam about the impact of no deal on people or the economy.
Vince Cable stepping down to make way for the next generation.
Sorry, despite the learned council here, we are nor even on the radar at Westminster never mind the wider English electorate.
Time for a bit of Political and International Relations Theory?
link to psa.ac.uk
Brexitology: What science says about the UK’s EU referendum
link to newscientist.com
Did conspiracy theories influence the Brexit vote?
link to ukandeu.ac.uk
The politics and economics of Brexit
link to tandfonline.com
Sweet dreams after reading (and agreeing with) this late at night.
Only consolation is the attention will at last turn to Scotland and how we try and extract ourselves from the mess.
Won’t be easy as their Northern colony will be even more crucial to them as ever as they try to arrange trade deals with a significantly impaired reputation and a bunch of utterly useless bastards doing the negotiations
Cubby @ 10.03 pm
Won’t No Deal be actually beneficial to some Tories?
iScotland is imminent.
We can be only one.
Plus iFriends.
With the David Steel cover up of paedophile MP Cyril Smith among the headlines, we are reminded that Theresa May was part of the cover up of the Westminster paedophile ring, which, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must presume to be still active.
Time perhaps for them chickens to come home to roost.
More on the influence that philosophical schools have on the nature of International Relations and, subsequently, the nature of individual national-isms .
Realists, Idealists and the EU By Philip Towle
British opinion is emotionally polarised. Realism will again prove more prophetic than idealism but learning its lessons will be painful.
link to briefingsforbrexit.com
Brexit: An international relations perspective
link to plymouth.ac.uk
Brexit and Europe: Liberalism Lost in Translation
link to iris-france.org
BREAKING DOWN THE EU’S BREXIT POSITION USING QCA TO EXPLAIN WHY MEMBER STATES PREFER A HARD OR SOFT BREXIT
link to lib.ugent.be
One week frae NOW takes us up tae the 21st.
Welcome to this week in politics.
We’re in The Clutha, burp
I have said no deal will be the outcome since the referendum. There never existed the chance of getting a good deal from the EU. The reality is they despise the UK and have been as obstructive as it is possible to be. Roll on the 29th March.
Ghillie@10.19pm
Yes I agree that was another of my reasons. Tories always make money out of chaos and others misfortune.
Bbc still fail to mention that Labour abstained on people’s vote
Will aye CHOOSE to speak of ah naughty word or twa 2night…
Yer fucking right and right fuckin’ NOW ’19 like..
Yer fucking Westminster May!
Hi Jockanese at 9:32 pm.
You typed,
“After today the next elections in Scotland should be SNP landslides.”
Ahem, can I just refer you to my comment of a couple of days ago?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
If Theresa May wants to deliver the ‘ will of the people’ she should revoke Article 50.
17.4 million voted to leave the EU – 37.4% of the electorate.
29 million DID NOT VOTE TO LEAVE THE EU – 62.6% of the electorate.
Simples !
“Take back control” has become please please can I have an extension.
When every cunting minute feels like ah fuckin’ second…
We have our Irish in the bar..
You should hear em.
No deal by default on 29Mar is the only feasible option.
Only two options left to prevent this are revoke A50 and General Election as People’s vote was terminated last night. Neither is going to happen though Corbyn will probably attempt the GE once again, but Tories won’t vote for it. Revoke A50 is untenable for Westminster.
So there is no substantive reason for the EU to grant an extension, ipso facto No deal 29 Mar is only feasible option left.
PS I got lambasted for pointing out the pedo rings and its ties to various elites. Its only going to get worse so hang on to your hats.
I hope very much that Breeks is right. Whether or not that is what will actually happen … who knows?
The speeches of SNP members in the HoC do increasingly suggest that the SNP / Scottish Government do have a real plan up their sleeve. One which they are ready to unroll and implement at any minute. I do very much hope so.
I would expect it to include a constitutional argument that the EU is bound to take note of. One that the SNP will already have indicated, perhaps long since, to key EU players. Having informed them that they will bring it into play at what they deem to be the appropriate moment.
According to the EU’s own rules, when a member state chooses to leave the EU, that member state is supposed to fulfill all its own constitutional requirements when doing so. When it is clear how and when exactly the UK is leaving the EU, the Scottish Government together with the SNP’s Westminster MPs might simply declare that the manner in which this has been arranged does not fulfill the constitutional requirements of one of the two constitutive nations that form the UK, namely Scotland. These arrangements, therefore, do not apply to Scotland.
They will then be able to list the reasons that stand in support of this position, starting with the constitutional sovereignty of the people in Scotland, both as long-held and as recently yet again clearly acknowledged by Westminster. To these reasons they can add all the breaches of the Scottish constitution that have taken place in the run-up to Brexit, demanding that not only Westminster but the EU and, indeed, the whole world take note.
This Declaration, for such it would be, would then re-state the clearly expressed will of the Scottish people to remain within the European Union, quoting the result of the 2016 referendum within Scotland’s boundaries. With the And perhaps the best thing would be to leave it at that. That’s what Declarations do – they say to whoever and to everyone – that is to the whole world: ‘Take note: this is the case, this is how things actually are.’ It’s not even ‘Like it or Leave it’. There is no ‘leave it’. It’s just: ‘Put this in your pipe and smoke it!’
Or, ‘That’s you telt!’ You, in this case, including ‘You Westminster’, ‘You, the EU’, ‘You, the UN’ and ‘You, the whole wide world’ – and that includes ‘You, every individual human being alive within this world that we all inhabit!’ There is no coming back on a Declaration: it’s not open to compromise, and it’s not even an invitation to discussion. It just ‘declares’, that’s all. This is how things are!
The signatories would be drawn from among those elected for Scottish constituencies in all three parliaments that have representatives of the Scottish people: Holyrood, Westminster and Strasbourg. Unless I have miscalculated – I can’t remember how it pans out for the European parliament at Strasbourg – I think that would provide a majority of the Scottish representation at each of the three parliaments. That is obviously the case for Westminster, and will be for Holyrood so long as the Greens join in with the SNP there.
How would Westminster and the Tory government react? Well, that would be their problem – not ours. If it was passed through Holyrood, they would no doubt claim that it was illegal, on the grounds that constitutional matters are not devolved. So it might be better not to go that way. It would be enough, I think, simply to issue it, with all the signatures on it, and with the inclusion of a statement pointing out that the signatories form a majority in all three parliaments where the Scottish nation is represented.
This would not quite be a Declaration of Independence, as such, but it WOULD reiterate – moreover, to the whole wide world – what the SNP MPs have been continually saying at Westminster over the past couple of weeks, as no doubt recorded in Hansard: Scotland (i.e. the Scottish people) will NOT be dragged out of the European Union against her will (i.e. against the will of her people). Once such a Declaration is issued, Holyrood – with its SNP + Green majority – could then ‘take note’ of it, and endorse it as a true statement of the Scottish constitution.
Even if Westminster then reacts to that endorsement negatively, as it almost certainly would – saying that Holyrood is not empowered to make such statements – the Declaration will in any case already have been beforehand and noted in every decent newspaper in the world, and people won’t forget it.
The Declaration will not be in the first place a statement of a devolved government, which might be criticised or discounted for over-reaching itself in a legally disputable way, but of a majority of the Scottish representatives in every parliament – national or international – where Scotland is represented. There is no legal impediment whatsoever to a joint statement being made by a group of MPs, MSPs and MEPs on this, or indeed, any other topic.
Moreover, their Declaration, issued in this way will already have caused a stir, even before Holyrood makes any statement on it. And the idea will be well and truly on the map, having already spread far and wide, no matter what the Tory Government says about it subsequently.
In the minds of people – and in reality – it will then be less likely to be seen simply as a dispute between a (supposedly supreme) Westminster parliament and a devolved (and therefore legally expendable) Scottish parliament. That perception has to be avoided, since it will lead people to dismiss the issue all too easily.
Instead, – let’s hope – it will be seen for what it truly is: a dispute between the two constituent parties that form the UK. And a dispute of mega-proportions, which cannot be easily dismissed.
That is, a dispute between the Scottish people on the one hand (whose voice is demonstrably being represented by a majority of their democratically elected representatives) and, on the other hand, whoever is deemed to represent the other constituent party of the UK.
Who exactly that will be, I am not quite sure – but that’s up to them to work it out. T. May and her government (if it still exists) might presume that it means the Tory-DUP alliance, insofar as it still commands some kind of majority at Westminster. But that might not be demonstrably democratic in regard to Wales – or, indeed, to Northern Ireland, if the DUP are not a majority there. So, maybe, in the end, the other constituent party of the UK does indeed turn out to be simply England, which is indeed legally the case (if I have understood the Treaty and Acts of Union properly).
Anyway, that’s their problem, not ours – it is not for us to solve the issue of who can democratically claim to represent the other half of the UK union. As to our half of it, it’s composed of the Scottish people. And whoever is elected to represent us can speak for us so long as they do not betray, or counteract, the will of that same Scottish people.
As far as we are concerned, our own democratic mandate for issuing such a Declaration, in the manner described, would therefore be clear and incontestable. Once a majority of all our elected Scottish representatives sign up to it, its democratic credentials are in principle shown. That majority can speak for Scotland.
The new Declaration they sign would also be articulated in such a way as to stand in clear continuity with previous Declarations and Claims of Right, as recorded and documented in the history of the Scottish people. It would not be inventing a new Constitution for Scotland, but simply applying Scotland’s long established and legally indisputable Constitutional principles to present circumstances.
Let the world take note.
And let the SNP get on with it.
Whatever happens on March 20, which T. May has scheduled for her next attempt to get her deal through Westminster, the time will (I think) be ripe immediately we know the outcome of that one. The SNP certainly have the legal brains and expertise, in abundance, to put such a Declaration together very quickly (just think of Joanna Cherry). Maybe they already have it ready. Up their sleeve, all this while – in which case, all they have to do is pick the right moment to issue it, with all the desired signatures already in place.
Having also decided, perhaps, on the place from which they would declare it, with all the signatories in attendance.
Or am I being unrealistic?
The tone of the recent rhetoric – ‘Scotland WILL NOT be dragged out of the EU against her will’ – allows us to hope.
Any Scot who still wants these absolute roasters to rule over us needs their head examined. Yet there will be unionists out there who will see no evil and hear no evil when it comes to this pathetic excuse for a UK. Westminster must reign supreme, no matter how incompetent, feckless and embarrassing it is.
Unionists, the eternal children who suckle their thumbs and want Mummy England to look after them forever.
On the basis that ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ I would support Anna Soubry/Dominic Grieve to lead a putsch. May has to be removed from office forthwith – it’s obvious she won’t go of her own accord, and her behaviour is becoming increasingly psychotic.
No point involving Labour in any coup – they’ve proved, repeatedly, that they can’t be trusted, even by each other. This problem is of Tory origin, has been an existential threat to them for at least four decades, and must be solved by them if it is to be solved at all. (In any event, they’d *still* win a GE if called tomorrow, right?)
If my weans’ lives depended on me coming up with a suggestion, that would be it.
Sorry, I know none of it will happen, but that’s all I got!
😉
Just turned QT from Ealing off. Four Brexiteers (including Julia Nutjob) and Ian. How can that be a balanced panel when London voted to remain?
How does Julia Nutjob get onto QT so often@? A Even more often than Orange Man – and on the panel!
Good luck Mr Blackford. You’ll need it – if you are allowed to talk at all
I think everyone is missing the point.
Brexit has already happened.
Anyone with family or business conducted in Europe could tell you that.
Way back a decade ago, small business etc knew there was a recession because the april/ may new project budget spending sprees on goods and equipment failed, it failed to pick up and failed again the following year, another 6 months passed before the ‘government’ hinted on MSM we may be perhaps entering a ‘recession’ – old news and businesses were already gone to the wall with full order books.
To date, the same canaries and further, families in mainland Europe have been intimating Brexit is old news, done, kaput, new papers are in order. This has been ongoing for the last year. Which means perhaps one more year of actual destruction, before this government tentatively announces ‘austerity, yeah? Cos things have gone a bit Pete Tong suddenly’
I’m not (and I have said this before) remotely interested in Brexit because it has already occurred. This is auld news to Business and UK/EU citizens.
More likely lengthy extension and some sort of Customs Union and Single Market BINO, there are simply too many Tory MPs like Rudd and Boles who will not accept No Deal under any circumstances.
Do not forget a majority of Tory MPs even voted against extending Article 50 tonight but it passed by a 200 majority anyway, in a hung parliament anything can happen
Toby
“17.4 million voted to leave the EU – 37.4% of the electorate.
29 million DID NOT VOTE TO LEAVE THE EU – 62.6% of the electorate.
The Prime-minister’s drive to deliver Brexit pivoted on her ability to command a Commons majority. She no longer has this, so is no longer able to influence this intrusion of “direct democracy”, in what is still notionally a parliamentary democracy. That’s what happens when the BBC normalises English white nationalism. The political thugs gain control and the ‘national’ interest suffers.
Great analysis – thank you. But what about May’s deal? Isn’t that the most likely outcome or have I missed something?
Freedom Square, Glasow, Scotland, Europe, 2019.
The 24th March, 2019.
Tommy knows.
Just an observation about a General Election.
People saying there would be voter fury if a GE were held, but who would they be furious at and how would they express it ?
Tories ?
Labour ?
Both ?
English leave voters, as the ‘injured’ party, purely as the largest electorate within the Uk, would vote for who exactly ?
17 million ukip voters ? I doubt that very much, and of course, who does the 16 million(ish) Remain voters vote for in all this ? Lib dems ?
Do people seriously believe the 2 biggest parties in a GE tomorrow at WM, would be ukip and the lib dems ?
I think people over estimate the grey matter of an awful lot of voters, especially in England.
Ian Blackford doing very well on QT. He has all the Remainers in the palm of his hands.
Footsoldier @ 10.16
I disagree Footsoldier 10.16.
Yes, the bulk of the MPs don’t really factor in Scotland in their day to day thinking,but that’s because they view us as just a part of the UKs resources.They seem to believe the propaganda as much as their constituents do!
But the UK Government’s and institutions are very aware of the necessity of holding Scotland … they always have been..
Any Chancellor who writes a budget certainly will be,and any Prime Minister,who pushes their ideology too!
The narrative about us, and having to hide things from us has been maintained no matter which government is in power for decades, ( some would say centuries, but that’s more about military strategy) no matter what else is going on.This doesn’t “just” happen!
It really all comes down to how they are going to go about getting what they need to happen,to happen!
They need to Brexit.
They need Scotland.
And also IMHO
They need to manipulate dumping N.Ireland.
I’m NOT sayin that this this is their cunning master plan that they’ve been working towards for year’s,only that they are looking out for their best interests in the here and now.
And that here and now has, always,always included the resources of Scotland,no matter where or when!
The steps they took for things like WW2 and “The Irish Question” is a window not just to how they think and plan for issues in front of them, but also demonstrates how much into the minutiae of things that they will delve to get their desired outcome.
Like Brexit they were responding to events not long planned for… BUT.. They were very quick to identify and act on their interests…
So no Footsoldier… I don’t believe for a minute that Scotland is far from their thoughts!
DMH@10.50
Four against one doesn’t matter David. Ian Blackford just knocked the ball clean out of the park.
Good. I’ll put my TV on agai. It’s a blood pressure thing
Ian Blackford is getting more applause than any other panel member – from a London audience!
And yet again that killer line from IB: Scotland voted to remain in the EU and we will remain a European country (to applause, BTW.
Better get those claymores out from under the thatch – in a manner of speaking of course…
@Ian Brotherhood
It will be Tories like Soubry and Grieve who actually step in and prevent Brexit, some Labour MP’s will vote for No deal and couldn’t care less what might happen then. The same though is true for some Tories and I doubt if there are many left with any loyalty to May, she’s out of the equation now.
Zombie woman dancing!
link to youtube.com
Just tuned-in to QT via R5 Live, it sounds mental…
QT audience plants have put in their appearance, shouty kipper type allowed full on shouting match with guy in front of him.
With Labour abstaining in the vote for a 2nd referendum, to hand victory to the Brexiteers Tories, the hopes of many millions of Remainers were dashed. I suspect that across the UK those millions are feeling down and deflated tonight. Many of them will be Labour voters which means there will be a backlash against Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party.
The Britnat troll HYFUD demonstrating quite clearly that Britnats have the biggest brass necks possible and still be able to walk and talk. Any Tory Britnat with any sense of shame would be hiding in their garage or garden shed or somewhere dark right now. But of course Britnats like HYFUD do not do shame – deep down they are colonialists – lacking in empathy and basic morals.
Still peddling your Britnat lies and crap as before.
@Thepnr –
I’m not a very ‘analytical’ person, tend to go more by gut-feeling about how folk look/behave.
Soubry and Grieve are Tories, nae doots, but there’s something about them which suggests that their ‘humanity’ has not been entirely smothered by upbringing and/or ambition. We, as Scots, are in the curious (and unenviable) position of witnessing an unfolding of circumstances which are almost enirely outwith our control, even when we have representatives right there in the WM crucible.
Our friends in the EU have the benefit of being able to view these events more objectively than any of us, and they know this whole Brexit shite is, essentially, a Tory creation. When Verhofstadt was doing his dinger today there’s no doubt who his ire was directed at – he knows, we know, abody knows, he’s losing the rag with the British State as embodied in the Tory party.
Everyone hates them and they don’t care – it’ll take those of them who *do* care to break this impasse, and that means blood on the carpet, sooner or later. Here’s hoping they get the knives out as soon as possible and do us all a favour.
Geeo@11.12pm
I had forgotten that show was on. Trying to stop watching it. It is a fraud. It has become like that Vanessa Feltz show that was exposed as using actors kidding on they were real people. The BBC is a disgrace. Taken over by right wing nutters. Bruce is also horrendous.
@ Capella at 9:26pm ……. “So no PV.”
I’m really busy right now Capella and trying to keep up, lol. Far from easy with all that’s going on. They say that No Deal has been taken off of the table when it’s still a viable option and I’ve just heard them discussing, on Newsnight, that if they end up with a longer extension period a PV could be held. What a shambles.
………………..
Newsnight: Vince Cable is standing down now, so no doubt we’ll unfortunately be seeing even more of Jo Swindle (Swinson). He also made a point of repeating the word “Scotland” on a number of occasions, and Holyrood, when being questioned about David Steele. “The Scottish Lib-dems are investigating this”, he said. You know dump the cr*p on Scotland. I wonder if he, Steele, was asked if he was aware of having any other paedophiles linked to their party? If he was and answered honestly we’d no doubt find out that there was a cabal of them. That of course applies to the Tories and Labour too.
Dave 1031, what? the EI has bent over backwards to help the UK, even agreed to a deal with may which would be an effective customs union and allow the mega rich to tax avoid to their hearts content with no sanction from Europe as per European law. the “Backstop” was the UK Plan, it was not Europe’s , and yet May and Co managed spend two years getting a plan approved by the EU and spent six months trying to get their plan modified by Europe,
for what its worth I think that they want a hard brexit, however I dont see how they can sort ouf the issues in Cyprus for instance where the main dual carriageway (And the only Road) between two main towns, Limassol and Paphos goes through the UK Sovereign Base area so there are two border crossing between UK and EU in the space of a couple of miles, seven border crossings alone in the Episkopi Cantonment, although the others can be closed that main artery cannot. What are the Cypriots going to do, bypass Episkopi by ferry?
I dont think for a minute that the UK gives a damn for the clusterfuck at Episkopi but it will be a problem for the EU.
@petra re: swinson
Apparently she aint a shoe in after all,as it was mentioned earlier there is another throwing their hat into the ring for the job.
@Ian Brotherhood
It’s a strange situation indeed when you’re relying on Tories to save you from the right wing nutters of UKIP and the ERG lot.
Then you have Corbyn and McDonnell, a right pair of fannies. No wonder the SNP are 19 points clear of any other party in Scotland, the rest are absolutely useless.
Top marks to Ian Blackford tonight. He was excellent, no wonder the BBC cut him off when he speaks in Westminster.
Talkin of fannies reminded me of this, worth a sqwatch LOL.
link to youtube.com
@manandboy 11.15pm.
You say that re:Corbyn/labour backlash, but where will those labour voting remainers register their ‘backlash’ ?
They have no one to vote for.
Nearly half of the electorate (remain voters) will struggle to justify their next vote for a mainstream unionist party at WM.
Fun part, we will most likely be watching from a safe space (indy Scotland).
Ian Brotherhood @ 10.50 pm
That’s kind of what I was wondering @ 9.45 pm.
Could there yet be some kind of rebellion/mutiny to take control of this parliament leading to a softer Brexit more paletible to a majority of English MPs?
Came across this app for studying WM votes, good info on how votes went, who did what etc.
Lot of good info about votes all in one place.
link to parliament.uk
Link to app stores at bottom of page.
Footsoldier & Liz g
A couple of basic precepts of English utilitarianism, are the beliefs that “all rational men have the same notion of good” and “the ends justify the means”. These conditions are the only way that Bentham could rationalise his ethics. As such, he rejected natural law and universal human rights.
English utilitarianism forms the basis of British nationalism. Add the English school of rationalist International Relations, and you begin to understand the nature of the beast Scotland must defend itself against.
@ Geeo … ‘Libdems.”
Some good news Geeo, maybe? Anybody but Swindon.
……………..
WGD:- “A matter of self-respect.”
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
QT is the perfect example to all Scots as to why Scotland must separate from these headcases who after over two years still haven’t learned anything and what makes it worse is they’re still listening to the people who made fools of them and asking them to keep doing it
How anyone can think the Julia Heartless Brewery is a real person without the most nasty of agendas is beyond belief, and James Faithful Tory Lapdog Cleverly practically has bad embarrassing red faced liar written on a sign coming out of his face
Ian Blackford did far too well considering he’s amongst the most politically illiterate of audiences you could find outside of well a certain area in Central Scotland, his performance was measured and well timed with a sincere and honest tone and the audience responded very well to him …amazingly although when he mentioned Scottish Independence Heartless Brewery was louder in her mockery of Scotland than the collective House of Commons
What a moron of a woman screaming implement the referendum then vote to change it afterwards, I mean you’d think fix it before you do it wrong might be a bit more intelligent
A Scandinavian lady opened her mouth to speak and the noise started against her till the baying mob were shut up by the
host, then when the lady finished speaking she got a huge round of applause for informing the mob how democracy works everywhere else in the world
Ian Blackford tried to explain proportional representation to the mob but sadly it was as usual beyond their ken simply because they’re used to dictatorship and they rather like it that way, easy for them to understand I suppose
Have a look at this chart and see how many Tory Mp’s voted to extend Article 50. I can’t see them changing their mind when faced with a cliff edge no deal.
Be prepared for a long extension or a general election as that’s looking like the most likely options now from where I’m sitting.
Scotland Tonight
Car crash interview with an ex British soldier called Suzanne Fernando who served in Londonderry. All the traits of the Britnat on full display. It’s alright to kill unarmed civilians by shooting them with their rifles. They were just doing their job. The IRA killed people as well. The Good Friday agreement is a disgrace. Blair should be prosecuted for the GF agreement. Persecuting old soldiers.
The British state covered up the truth of this atrocity for decades.
I doubt this ex soldier had ever heard that the Nazis used this argument (only following orders) in the Nuremberg trials but it was rejected. I doubt they were given orders anyway to shoot unarmed civilians.
How the hell do British soldiers never see themselves as an occupying force as they have gone around the world invading and occupying other people’s countries.
Horrendous views held by this women.
Would have been a good idea to include the link, duh.
link to bbc.co.uk
Thepnr
Give the Tbot her due, she did at least appear enthusiastic, as her personality is rigid and lacks empathy, apparently . On seeing that clip of her dancing though, I’d like to change my mine about her being a conscious racist. She appeared to be interacting in a human fashion, so I reckon her racism is accidental. It’s not something she truly believes in but will condone and even advance if it gets her where she wants to get to. She is a Tory who’s personal background is steeped in Anglicanism. She’s an English utilitarian if ever there was a prime candidate.
@CameronB Brodie
After May has been long gone from politics the thing she will be most remembered for is her dancing. That is to be her legacy.
Option 4
….the Royal Baby will be born, we’ll all forget about Brexit, meanwhile the MSM will go all gooey, tree will be union flags everywhere, T May will be asked to be a Godmother along with the Earl of For – faar and we’ll accidentally slip out of the EU to the tune of God Save the Royal Baby and good King Harry and his brother King Billy …. OH!
I was having a nightmare there!!!
Must get up out of this chair and go to bed properly.
Cubby
did you here Michael Fallon’s interview this evening?
He said it was about time we heard about IRA terrorists being re-investigated for the deaths they caused.
They don’t get the fact that one side is an occupying force an aggressor with trained soldiers and weapons and the other side is defending their liberty.
Look at Catalonia peaceful , democratic protestors and trained, armed aggressors trying to suppress liberty.
God help N. Ireland as I have heard talk of WM considering imposing direct rule presently.
The tories want to totally abolish devolution of any sort and N. Ireland is the first section to go. It’s a disgrace that there has been no Stormont assembly for two years throughout this turbulent Brexit process and this investigation of Bloody Sunday and the government’s stance does not bode well for future peace.
Why the BBC cherry picks exactly what they want to beam into every Scottish living room. Why they, as one example, cut off Iain Blackford at every opportunity. If every Scot knew half of what most of us on here know support for Independence would shoot up to around 75% overnight, IMO.
link to mobile.twitter.com
Thepnr
You’re a cruel man. 😉
My gut says that the ERG and DUP, with the usual Lexitters, will vote through the next May “deal”.
We will have to suffer the slower, Thatcher type, destruction of our jobs and industries while they move to elsewhere.
It will take England and Wales nearly two decades to realise what is happening.
Meantime, Scottish voices will be silenced. Dissent will be crushed.
Hey Glasgow, ahm back in oor Catty on Union St music ha ha he he.
Believe in yer Scotland.
Scotland.
Hey there Cactus =)
Have a grand night!
@Cubby says: 14 March, 2019 at 11:19 pm:
” … The Britnat troll HYFUD demonstrating quite clearly that Britnats have the biggest brass necks possible and still be able to walk and talk.”
Nah! HYFUD is just a brainwashed idiot. He, or she, comes away with the most idiotic claims that are so easy to prove as stupidity.
A couple of threads back he, or she, was claiming Spain had said they would veto any Scottish attempts to join the EU and that Scotland would have to join a long queue to get back in.
Now there isn’t a word of truth in those claims. The Spanish PM has officially stated that Spain would not veto A Scottish application and that the Catalan situation was nothing like the Scottish claims of Independence and even explained why.
Not to mention there never has been a queue to get EU Membership granted. If an applicant can meet all EU rules they are in – if they cannot they are not in. and Scotland, having been EU members for as long as there has been an EU meet, and exceed many EU requirements.
Not only that but the EU has no rules, laws or other legal mechanisms to exclude EU citizens against their will. That is why any EU citizen has the right to help from any EU country’s foreign Embassy or Consulates.
They EU is sworn to protect EU citizens and has no way to exclude them against their will. Think on that for a moment – what credibility would the EU have if it did not protect EU citizens? If Scotland claims their protection and her EU citizens are cast out against their expressed will. The EU would have absolutely no credibility both throughout the EU and throughout the entire World, (Except for viewers in England).
The guy that the MSM quoted as a spokesman for Spain was Barrosso and he was actually Portuguese and had no authority to speak for Spain yet the MSM and in particular the BBC quoted him as an authority for both Spain and the EU.
Thing was that he wasn’t even an EU parliamentarian. He was, at the time, the president of the EC and the EC, European Commissioners, are actually the EU’s civil servants – the clue is in their titles , “commissioners”, i.e. paid for civil servants and as such they have absolutely no decision making powers for decision making is the job of the MEPs.
Pay the guy no heed – he is a brainwashed and stupid unionist.
Cheers Ghillie, aye have arrived.
This is a 16+ adult website.
Let us go crazy!
I still reckon the Tbot is a bit of a sociopath. Here’s some Neuroscience and Evolutionary Psychology and stuff, on the links between racism and psychopathy.
The Evolutionary Role of Narcissistic Sociopaths
Trivers’ new evolutionary analysis of narcissistic sociopathy and Trump.
link to psychologytoday.com
Is There a Relationship Between Psychopathic Traits and Racism?
link to researchgate.net
Racism’s Cognitive Toll
link to psychologicalscience.org
Apathetic Racism Theory: a Neurosociological Study of How Moral Emotions Perpetuate Inequality
link to ir.uiowa.edu
Love Love Love… Love Love like
Love love yerself
Scotland
AuldGrannie, they’ll need to vote it through, the EUs new tax stuff kicks in from April.
I think a 4th scenario has a chance of happening:
1 May’s deal is rejected again.
2 EU rejects long term extension.
3 May’s deal is rejected for a fourth time.
4 EU rejects what would need now to be a long term extension.
5 May refuses to revoke article 50.
6 An emergency vote is forced before 29th
7 Article 50 is revoked by the house
8 Back to square one.
Get and be ready for Scotland.
NOW is always oor time.
Fuck the cunt!
Meg. IRA – please remember that they murdered in the main Irish people man, woman, child and the unborn. Kneecapped their own supporters. Like the UDa they were in part drug and gang cartels. My fight for freedom is through the ballot box
One does not normally default to cunt…
But time both calls and beckons.
Fuck yeah!
Cactus. This is an over 16 site? Yet, your behaviour is so infantile.
Howde Hamish…
And aye will always LOVE you.
Ahm ra infant…
Ah’ll take that one Hamish yer hunner.
You could be a groovy cool.
Tae learn.
Ah do not give a CUNT no more…
Whom’eth be offended.
Try aye.
Time for a bit of Cognitive and Linguistic science?
link to glossa-journal.org
Why language really is not a communication system: a cognitive view of language evolution
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Language and Cognition
link to bu.edu
The cognitive science behind words that work – a one day workshop
link to eventbrite.co.uk
P.S. “Science”; does to Tories what salt does to slugs. 😉
Be things as they may…
We are SO much better than them an awe that…
Rammstein playin like.
Cubby
I’m guessing, but you’ve never had much contact with the army, or it’s structure?
Soldiers are made. Broken, then remoulded to operate as part of the machine. To obey orders, like them or not. And to fight for your new mates.
There’s a direct, unequivocal chain of command, and a reciprocal line of responsibility.
They were given orders to fire, as the authorities were in a flap about civil unrest (not the march!).
The MoD (under Cabinet control), chose to put an elite regiment of killers on crowd control duties !
We are at the candle of Hope Street..
Pakora courtesy of Cookies.
Nice.
These seem appropriate. This internet thing is a wonder. Science, eh?
link to frontiersin.org
The Psychology of Risk and its Role in
link to tandfonline.com
Cognitive Training for Military Application: a Review of the Literature and Practical Guide
link to link.springer.com
Identifying British Army infantry recruit population characteristics using biographical data
link to academic.oup.com
Doh!
The Psychology of Risk and its Role in Military Decision?Making
A back-up squadron of flying pigs was spotted circling the Forth Bridges 😉
A big howde tae ye me Hamish100…
Ahm gonna try the Riverboat Casino for FUN, Glasgow.
That is… if they let me in.
Aye feel good.
As does iScotland.
re. the psychology of risk and Brexit. Some insight into why it’s harder to motive with a carrot than with a stick. You’ve got to love irony if you live in Scotland.
link to psychologytoday.com
Brexit and the psychology of loss
link to managers.org.uk
No Pause for Thought? Brexit, Bias and Political Manipulation
The psychology of Brexit and contemporary politics, in a series of articles by Volker Patent. In this first article, we look at how the language of Brexit encourages the formation of political cliques.
link to open.edu
Brexit, psychology and human rights
link to efpa.eu
Here Dixie…
Check this out if yer lookin’ in and out.
Mad Martin is here, fuck…
OT
Mmm, I enjoyed that elsewhere, a post in one of my hunting grounds. A shot across the bows, so to speak, and the irony is a good QC (briefed of course by RP) could make a substatntial case for it.
Zebedee says. Zzzzeb
Ahm watching gamblers gambling.
Ah’ve PLAYed mah turn.
Hamish kens like…
As does KenD.
EXCELLENT! Yes, other commenters, news and bloggers have ENTIRELY missed the point on this.
May has even tried to pull a fast one, the vote to take ‘No Deal’ off the table was SPECIFICALLY for a 29th March exit, and does NOT apply to a withdrawal on any other date.
Politicians will NEVER volunteer to put themselves out of office (ie government) an opposition MIGHT push for a GE but then, only if they are sure to win. The love nothing more, and nothing else, but power itself..
Messy Brexit in June, just as Parliament breaks for summer. Absolutely PERFECT!!
Not so much Plan A as the emergency back up, if all else fails Plan Z. I say ‘Plan’ but as we all know politicians don’t ‘Plan’ anything. civil Servants do that kind of thing, politicians make the mess for CS to clear up…
My take-away from the final Commons vote on March 14, 2019 is that there’s now 202 MPs on record as having voted for war between Eire and Northern Ireland.
Ahm sitting down by oor riverside mainland Scotland and attachments… down by where The Riverbus used to go. The tide is high as ahm aye.
Oor River Clyde is fucking bonnie.
Fuck May.
Oor River Clyde is blowing up stream (high tide)
We are Glasgow like.
We be Scotland.
Chilling at the bus stop at Bridge St baby underground.
Tommorow knows as does NOW.
Et aujourdhui.
Taxi oui.
Fuck Westminster…
Love Scotland.
That is all.
@skydiver…
Where are ye… Come back…
Everybuddy knows.
Ahm on the 57 bus back skydiver, to return…
Tell me awe aboot ye..
Aye want to know.
Wings ’19 comin’.
All da 4’s.
That’s me aff ra 57 Glasgow bus groovy cools.
Every journey has a destination.
HOME is imminent.
One is HOME.
Fuck Vince Cable.
He’s a nobody.
He’s an outis.
Looking at what Guy Verhofstadt is saying, I get the clear understanding that he equates an extension to Article 50 with a unified cross party representation from Westminster which represents the settled and stable will of the UK, and demonstrates a degree of contrition and flexibility appropriate to the severity of its imperillment.
Frankly, the chances of Westminster finding a way to end its bickering and present such a congestive interface for Europe to interact with seems beyond all possibility. The imminent danger of crashing out with no deal and no extension is being sidelined with no sign of an end to the delusional hubris of UK politicians.
14 days to save Scotland from disaster.
Put away your people’s vote, put away your IndyRef2, put away your YES campaign, put away your campaign leaflets. There is no time left. Scotland needs an emergency, Constitutionally led initiative to affirm that Scotland is a Nation where the people are Sovereign, and those sovereign people chose to stay in the EU. We must declare Scotland’s Sovereignty to be absolute and inalienable, and sacrosanct. ONLY Scotland can elect to remove itself from Europe, and Scotland has never elected to do any such thing. Brexit is colonial subjugation contrary to International Law.
Congestive??? I’m quite sure I typed cohesive…
Morning Breeks…
Congestive et cohesive.
Same thing, different day.
Indeed dude, cheers.
“What you gonna do, without water.
What you gonna do, aint no bread.
What you gonna do, over summer.
Can you help to heal these visions from my head…”
Circa NOW ’19.
“As summer ends, the night descends, ahn ahm sittin’ here without you, ah can’t rewind or seem to find somebuddy else like you… SO take ah shot of me, make a lot of me cause baby you know ah Love you good, it’s funny how aye be, these things that others see, but ahm still self misunderstood…
And that aint a crime”
To runaway.
Aye thought aye would PLAY this one again… FOR YOU:
link to youtube.com
Scott is gone, who’s left?
What the fucking hell like NOW?!
NOW is the time to get serious iScotland…
Do you wannabe YOU?
Every time…
Is NOW.
Cactus
Seek help. Boring repetive posts are just that. Boring.Zzzzxz
Dedication to Wings’ early risers that aye know of:
link to youtube.com
Ghillie, Petra, Ken500, Breeks, Macart, Dorothy…
Ahm giving it big with respectos xx.
Awe Hamish100, ah was about to give you a shout out 2…
What did aye do 2 offend ye dude like.
Nana, can ye sort Hamish oot?
Morning Cactus! and thank you for good old Fleetwood Mac.
I understand BIG love for Scotland!
🙂
Dorothy.
Xx.
Links
link to gov.scot
The Tories have made the UK parliament a laughing stock and Labour have confirmed their status as the spineless midwives of Brexit. What a shambles that is letting down Scotland and the entire UK. Scotland must now get on- our interests are not served by this Westminster cabal.
video
link to twitter.com
Mhairi Black speech on article 50
video
link to twitter.com
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
SNP release a list of 67 ways the Highland economy could be hurt by Brexit
link to archive.is
Glasgow named in top ten best cities in the world by Time Out magazine
link to archive.is
“The Labour party and the Tory party are in absolute chaos. They cannot sort this – it needs to go back to the people”. SNP MP @drewhendrySNP speaking to #TheNine after MPs voted overwhelmingly to delay #Brexit
video
link to twitter.com
“If at first you don’t succeed….”
link to facebook.com
link to businessforscotland.com
link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk
link to bylinetimes.com
Frances Meehan, whose brother was killed by security forces in Northern Ireland in 1980, tells #cblive about her meeting with Northern Secretary Karen Bradley
link to twitter.com
link to buzzfeed.com
No-deal Brexit: Cardiff schools told to stockpile food
link to archive.is
link to bloomberg.com
1. Following two successive votes rejecting the draft withdrawal agreement (DWA) (432-202 against and 391-242 against) and this evening’s vote (321-278) to reject any no deal Brexit, here is a personal reflection/contribution on possible extensions of time under Article 50 TEU.
link to twitter.com
Shell defends 126% rise in chief executive’s pay awards
link to archive.is
link to irishnews.com
Mr Fox doesn’t explicitly mention this, but this is a ‘rollover’ treaty, continuing an existing free trade agreement between the EU and these two States.
link to twitter.com
Exclusive The Geoffrey Cox legal advice that Theresa May hopes will save her Brexit deal
link to twitter.com
link to politicshome.com
link to eulawanalysis.blogspot.com
Britain pleads to extend Article 50: This is one of our darkest hours
link to archive.is
Rev explains it…
Ditto.
link to politico.eu
Immigration removals stopped by injunction
link to archive.is
Excellent essay
The United Kingdom always had one leg in the EU and one outside. That served a purpose: they saw things that the Dutch or French wouldn’t notice, Caroline de Gruyter writes. But they couldn’t get out of that outsider role anymore. Now many in Brussels want them to go.
link to archive.is
link to eureporter.co
Irish PM Leo Varadkar and his partner, Matt Barrett meeting with a homophobic Mike Pence today.
link to twitter.com
Apt cartoon on the Brexit mess
link to twitter.com
1. Day 9 of Westminster hearings at #CSAinquiry – my round-up in 20 tweets.
link to twitter.com
Early appointment to get to so that’s all for today
Mornin’ Nana, many kettles be at the ready of the NOW xx
This one is especially for you Dorothy girly xx:
link to youtube.com
Indy is gonna be bigger than a landslide.
Morning Nana ! The more I learn about the British Empire the more sickened I become . All we have ever done as the BE appears to be kill , imprison , decide who is a terrorist / insurgent , rape and pillage then give ourselves a halo and pat ourselves on the back.
Astonishing PR that the UK thinks it can get away with for all time.
Cactus , thank you – I love it!
Nana , Cactus I left a response to you both but I must have used a banned word as I am now in moderation.
Loved the song Cactus – I know that wasn’t a banned comment .
My response to Nana concerned the behaviour of the
clodhopping ,thieving , bullying British Empire and may have contained a naughty word.
Question… Why does Brexit need to go back to the people in Scotland?
Answer… It doesn’t. It’s only England and Wales who need change their minds, and that makes a People’s Vote a UK wide campaign that’s run one way in Scotland and a different way south of the Border. Scotland lumbered with a reluctant UK. Plus ca change.
Michel Barnier. Nous exigeons une reconnaissance souveraine pour l’Ecosse. Maintenant.
Do it again.
This is like the illegal war. Just as bad. Getting legal adive changed so the Westminster hooligans can destroy the world. May and the Tories are trying to get advice of illegality changed to legal -(illegally) to push a policy through that will destroy the UK and the world economy. Push through by illegal methods and illegal outcome. Next the decision will be placed under the Official Secrets Act. To hide their criminality,
The Tories and the rest were warned whst would happen if they went ahead with a ridiculous EU Ref. The damage they are doing the economy is contemptible, unneccesary and illogical.
How this Westminster Gov can continue after so many defeats and still try to introduce the same rejected policy is illegal and illogical. Criminal. They just haven’t go a clue. They are ruining people’s lives and getting away with murder. A cabel of complete igoramiuses. The arrogance, conceit and incompetence for the world to see. The biggest liars in the world lining their pockets on other people’s misery. They should hang their heads in shame. Most of them should be in jail. If there was any justice. The Westminster unionists are hideous people. How can they continue this way.
Question… Why does Brexit need to go back to the people in Scotland?
Answer… It doesn’t. We should respect England’s sovereign right leave Europe and they should respect our sovereign right not to.
This is a song about your fucking mother…:
link to youtube.com
Axl knows.
OT
Catching up with LibDem revelations.
David Steel ignores child abuse and then recommends abuser for Knighthood.
This for me demonstrates the utter corrupting influence of the Westminster Establishment.
Or BritNat Unionism attracts people without a soul to politics.
Here’s another GNRFNR for ye Westminster ye:
link to youtube.com
May is a rocket.
Sorry, I posted this on the previous thread. I didn’t notice we had moved on so quickly!
Clootie says:
15 March, 2019 at 8:13 am
The entire fiasco that has been choreographed for over 3 years to take us to a hard Brexit and blame Europe. This included making full use of the Labour leaders incompetence and inability to make a decision.
Europe (like Scotland) wants to move on but the little englanders want an Empire to rule. Aircraft Carriers, WMD and long range nuclear submarines that let them pretend they are powerful and to be respected. Very much like their DUP buddies the still look to the past instead of the future.
The EU is not perfect but they are trying to make it work. The U.K. Media has painted a very negative image of the EU for over 40 years. This was also part of the long term planning ” build a negative image of the EU and lock it in”.
We are returning to the days of “The Greenwich Meridian” the line through London that ensures London is at the centre of every map. It was once the Rose Line through Paris……but how dare those frogs when with our bigger Navy we are the centre of the Universe. They are not nationalists at all!
Robert Peffers I suggest you look at the latest polls for the Spanish general election next month which suggests the current Spanish PM will fail to win and be replaced by a new conservative and nationalist Spanish government of the PP, Citizens and the hard right, fiercely pro Spanish unity and fiercely anti Catalan independence Vox Party. Vox in particular will stop anything that could encourage Catalan independence
Theresa May and her government could be heading for a ‘breakdown’ HYUFD:
link to youtube.com
How ye doin’ marnin’ stranger?
@ Hyfud.
Your comment is speculation not fact.
@Hyfud,
Will that include genocide of Catalonia? Because that’s the only way to obliterate the desire for Independence mate.
You can’t kill ideas.
There is a strong Irish lobby in the US Congress. A strong Irish lobby which supports the Republic. A committee which lobbies for trade. Rejects the British States actions in Ireland, A large Irish disporia.. Many voters of Irish decent. The Kennedy’s were Irish Catholics descent. Obama visited Ireland. Obama’s mother was quite interesting. Lived all over the world.
Many US tourists come to the Irish Republic as their base when they come to Europe. Fly into Dublin. The flights are cheaper and quicker. Many (US) companies are based there for access to the EU markets. Etc. 500Million+. Irish Republic has a lower cost for visitors. A high standard of living but at lower cost. Dublin is hooching. A really interesting City full of history. Scenic like Scotland. Irish ‘tiger’ has major growth. Even punt pegged to the pound. Until 1997. Irish Repubkic joined the Euro. No big deal and quite successfully. It saves red tape, money exchange and business costs.
Scotland like Ireland has a large diaspora in the US and around the world (40 million). People who had to migrate because of Westminster’s criminal, cruel and illegal actions. Just as they are treating migrants today, They are illegally deporting people from Scotland/UK in the most callous way. Totally unneccessary and illegally. The Westminster unionists have illegally driven people out of Scotland and taken all of Scotland’s resources and squandered them illegally.
Scotland’s resource’s are the people and they have been driven away by Westminster illegally, causing massive suffering, The same in Ireland. Criiminal actions from a criminal Westminster unionist Gov. Cruel beyond belief. Westminster has had to apologise so many times but just keeps doing it. Repeats the same actions over and over hoping for a different outcome, Beyond ignorant. Groundhog Day. Some people never learn.
The interaction with Trump/Ireland will be interesting. Golf courses/development. A United front to exchange opinion. Can’t offend voters of Irish descent. A huge lobby. The only thing Trump has not done is started a WW, yet. Even he is not daft enough.
Inn keeping wae the theme HYUFD:
link to youtube.com
Their politicians are arse.
Next song HYUFD…
link to youtube.com
The above is yer possible future.
You like?
One more HYUFD dude…
link to youtube.com
“Ah want a drug induced state of unconsciousness, SO coma come on.”
Correct me if I’m wrong. Did most Scots MP’s vote for a second EU referendum yesterday?
If so why did none of the MSM pick up on it? Oh aye sorry. Stupid question.
Ian Blackford on QT last night: “The people of Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against our will. We voted to remain and we will be remaining a European country” To peals of laughter from JHB and a quip from Fiona Bruce along the lines of “How will you manage that?” but no time for Ian’s response as she swiftly moved on.
Defo@2.07pm
You are correct in your assumption. No military personal contact by myself only a nephew who served in the navy to see the world.
Soldiers are human beings and have an obligation to still know right from wrong.
If Bloody Sunday is condoned it means it can happen again. I do not absolve the British state of responsibility for the events or the subsequent cover up. Shooting unarmed civilians is something the British government has condemned throughout the world when it has happened in other countries. Hypocrites.
I’ve been saying since late on Monday night TM is going for a no-deal Brexit on 29th March. No question about it.
She’s ignoring the parliamentary votes this week (has she significantly changed her deal, NO, has she brought back the legislation to amend it to rule out no-deal, NO).
And she knows she can’t scare the ERG into voting for her deal with the threat of a long drawn out extension if they don’t vote for her deal.
She created the hostile environment for immigrants when she was Home Secretary now she wants a hostile environment for the rest of us!
I want to convey my disgust at the idiots who allegedly threatened a Conservative worker for Luke Graham MP. If this is true, then congratulations, idiots, you’ve probably just helped the Tories win that seat in the next election. And probably helped secure a No vote in that area for Indyref2.
What’s your plans for today… People of Scotland?
Whistle if you are able:
link to youtube.com
YOU are the above, Scotland.
Much scattergun frustration among nationalists in Scotland that our country is marginalised and the SNP seemingly ineffective.
The strategy, if such exists, of our leaving of the Scoto-English union needs to be rethought. We could do with less talk, less tweets, less fantasy, less the Party can do no wrong. The hard reality of the resilience of the British state and its apparatus, even in crisis, has to be recognised. The great Brexit bounce has not materialised.
Much is being left to chance. England’s troubles are causing us trouble. Why? Could it be that the SNP has taken its eye off the independence ball and doesn’t know where to locate it?
Breeks@5.05.
Put away IndyRef2 and the Yes Campaign? Au contraire, mon ami. I think Wull has the rights of it in his excellent post earlier.
I have said on here for some time that SNP MPs telling the world that Scotland will remain in the EU is no idle boast. Ian Blackford brilliantly made the same point on QT last night (l made an exception of watching it).
This policy carries huge meaning: namely Scotland’s sovereign wish to remain in the EU must stand. That means we are going to fight. Very soon. And we will have Europe’s tacit – perhaps even overt support.
Perhaps within days, the story will all be about Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon will make a declaration detailing how our country has been ignored, mocked and insulted – and why we must seek our own path on this earth or face the lingering death of the eternally subjugated. Aux armes, citoyens!
This is a song about yer never used to love yer fucking UK:
link to youtube.com
With compliments.
Weird the arguments used to Brexit the EU. They totally apply to Independence for Scotland (in EU) but will make them poorer but Scotland better off. A bunch of imbeciles.
Labour and Corbyn are in complete disarray. Many of them Brexiteers are voting to save their jobs rather than save the economy. No convictions, just plain selfish. Like they could not find something better to do. Corbyn stayed in a Party with which every major decision he disagreed. Instead of going off and doing something useful. Still useless.
Anti EU QT came from London. Quite outraged people. London S/E voted to Remain. QT fiddling the audience numbers, again.
Aldo_macb. I smell sh**e here. A bit like like a football hooligan wearing another clubs football Jersey.
Especially the part where they allegedly said,they would be hung in an independent Scotland, yeah right.
@Aldo_macb
Hmmmm! Assuming the miscreants were what they loudly and so theatrically claimed to be.
Re Bloody Sunday. For anyone interested in the timeline, this seems comprehensive … link to tinyurl.com
Multiple wrongs never make right and a spiral of retaliatory violent just gets into a loop.
For me, what stands out is the initial heavy handedness of UK/NI authorities on civil rights protests. In the early days there seemed a big overlap in the activities of police and thugs!
Golfnut It is based on polls, Bob Mack Vox made the Popular Party look moderate. If they end up in Government the Spanish Civil Guard will likely be sent to Catalonia with orders to use any means at their disposal to crush Catalan separatism most likely
May is tied up, but she aint pretty:
link to youtube.com
NB This is The Perils Of Rock N’ Roll Decadence
Ken500 Scotland sends even more of its exports to England as a percentage than the UK sends to the EU
The best time to have an IndyRef is when it can be won. It is better not to fight a campaign on two fronts or in the winter/ summer holidays. People away. Or two campaigns could be lost. Spread too thin Prioritise each campaign. GE another EURef could come soon and get in the way. The UK Gov is on a State of collapse. It can’t go on like this. Support for Indepence continues rising. The appalling Westminster shambles and the Demographics. It just needs a small percentage swing. Better to get it. To win. The SNP will know when to move. They have not let Scotland down yet. Like minded, concerned people. They need all the help they can get,
If you want the bells frae hell… you gottem 925’ers:
link to youtube.com
Freedom always.
@HYUFD
Do not get the connexion between Scottish exports to England and the desire for restored sovereignty and independence. Such an argument might well have kept virtually all of the imperial colonies in perpetual thraldom, including India.
@Aldo_macb – we need to find out what actually happened.
Luke Graham won his seat after a smear campaign against Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh. It was two years before the actual case was dealt with and it appears that there was much smoke and very little fire.
Also, the BBC report doesn’t say which constituency office was involved. If it was the Alloa office, that is where a Britain First demonstration was organised some time ago. Completely out of keeping with the area but I don’t remember the detail. Obviously there are many odd forces at work in Ochil and South Perthshire.
Have the tories suddenly stopped referring to the snp as
the nationalist party?
I have heard a few of them say the scottish national party
in recent days.
That seems new.
I wonder why…
I see poor old Duncan is still going with the SNP have no mandate because they polled less than 50% of the electorate. I can only believe he now wants all Westminster legislation rescinded that post dates any party not receiving over 50% at a general election (this was some time ago).
Somehow I feel he thought the Tony Blair 37% win was an overwhelming mandate. Because I suspect he believes in the Westminster system of seats, unless of course these seats have a majority of SNP MP’s representing Scotland, then it’s back to majority of voters. The hypocrisy is just outstanding.
Take me to Holy Mecca…
link to youtube.com
THIS lead singer died from a motorcycle related accident.
If you didn’t laugh you would cry at the antics of both the Tories and Labour parties at Westminster on Brexit.
They couldn’t negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag.
I suspect a no deal Brexit could happen accidently, though I have read that the DUP are now claiming they are moving nearer to supporting May’s deal
There is a problem in all of this as well for Labour’s Corbyn, he is on record as stating the EU wouldn’t allow him to renationalise privatised services and that remaining in the EU would make us rule takers not rule givers
As he portrays himself to be a man of principle, how could he possibly, with any credibility, now make a U-Turn and support remaining in the EU?
HYUFD – and England exports MUCH more to Scotland that vice versa…..English businesses will just drop a huge market????? And how w thoulde EU look upon an England that stops trading with an Independent Scotland in the EU? Time to grow up and widen the view!
HYUFD – and England exports MUCH more to Scotland than vice versa…..English businesses will just drop a huge market????? And how would the EU look upon an England desperate for trade that stops trading with an Independent Scotland in the EU? Time to grow up and widen the view!
@Capella
I believe it was Graham’s Alloa office.
I have very serious doubts about the whole thing. It has to be assessed against a background of Tory habitual lying. Any CCTV? Images captured on mobile phone? Independent witnesses? Police called immediately? And if the incident occurred as described, it is just as likely to be false flag.
Perhaps it actually was extreme anti Tory threatening behaviour. In which case I hope the police catch the perpetrators. Unlike the Tories, we want to be democratic and law abiding.