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What is known as parklife

Posted on June 24, 2020 by

We’ve just been out for our evening constitutional in the relatively cool night air (Bath sweltered at an oppressive 30C today and Bear Patrol was pretty gruelling), and we thought readers might be interested in what we saw.

The city has observed lockdown with great diligence, as we’ve previously documented, and to be honest we’re not sufficiently familiar with the latest rules to say it wasn’t still doing so tonight. But a nearby park, around 9.30pm, was a disconcerting scene.

About half-a-dozen cops and pretend-o-cops can be seen circulating amongst the crowd, and they were having extended conversations with various groups, but to no visible effect – we observed the scene for about 20 minutes and nobody got up and left, and we weren’t close enough to overhear what was being said.

But it seems abundantly clear to us that England’s approach to the coronavirus pandemic has played out like this:

1. The UK government’s first instinct, more or less openly stated, was to basically do nothing, let the virus run wild and allow “herd immunity” to develop – writing off the deaths that would result, mainly among the elderly, as a price worth paying to avoid major economic damage.

2. Scientists warned that this would overwhelm the NHS and lead to hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths, so a lockdown policy was introduced to “flatten the curve”, although too late to avoid thousands of probably needless casualties.

3. Despite the delay, the NHS was NOT overwhelmed. A fleet of “Nightingale” hospitals were hastily constructed but as far as we know barely saw a single patient. Existing capacity was able to cope, albeit at a stretch and at a significant human cost. The curve was flattened and while daily deaths in England are still in triple figures, new cases are far lower than when lockdown came in.

4. The government has therefore basically concluded that it can revert to its original policy of herd immunity. Restrictions can be lifted as quickly as is plausibly decent, infections will rise again, but nothing need be done unless and until they exceed the previous level. The expensive furlough schemes can be dropped and “business as usual” can be resumed as far as possible, largely at the expense of the poor.

(The Tory administration has already survived the world’s worst per-capita death rates AND Dominic Cumming’s round-Britain trip, so probably feels it can ride out anything else that might foreseeably happen.)

Scotland has belatedly begun to meaningfully diverge from English policy, but since London is refusing to maintain the furlough schemes for the other three UK nations it remains to be seen how long that divergence can be sustained. People can’t survive without income.

If we were you, readers, we’d make sure we had plenty loo roll in now.

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    1. 24 06 20 22:56

      What is known as parklife | speymouth

    446 to “What is known as parklife”

    1. Lenny Hartley says:

      Scotland is no better.

    2. Linda McFarlane says:

      I’m already stocking up a little every shop. It’s not going to be pretty when it happens.

    3. Big Jock says:

      I think Nicola has moved to reopen Scotland because of England’s attitude. She knows that WM will effectively force Scotland into line by cutting funding.

      Then the SG will be left to pick up the mess when wave two begins. The border is still open while England suffers 170 deaths a day. When the English come over the border to swamp the highlands. All Scotland’s work will be instantly undone.

      It’s so obvious to everyone!

    4. Kenny says:

      Lenny – I would agree that at first, Scotland made a lot of mistakes. Some were linked to the financial problems of needing UK Government support to enable a lockdown, but plenty were down to Scottish Government decisions. Now though, it’s absolutely inarguable that Scotland is in a better position. New cases and deaths are way lower than in England, and the attitude of the FM is going to help the lifting of lockdown to stay orderly and keep people doing the right things.

    5. Joe says:

      Shocking. All those people not trusting what governments say. Apparently, this is no joke, throat swabs are not very good tests and its recommended to use a rectal swab for a test. Thats a bit more fitting. Mind your mask now.

    6. Robertknight says:

      The Tory donors were always going to get Boris by the short’n’curlies and force him into easing lockdown and getting things back to ‘Business as usual’ quicker than the science gurus would have liked. Too many seeing their net worth heading south due to their drones being kept tucked up in their hives instead of boosting profits.

      No such pressure on administrations in Wales, Scotland and Norniron – except from those who hold the purse-strings in Westmonster of course. He who pays the piper…

    7. Mist001 says:

      Westminster said ‘Stay Alert’. Two weeks later, Scotland was told to ‘Stay Vigilant’. Is there a difference there that I’m missing?

      Just a couple of days ago, Westminster announced their relaxation of the lockdown. Scotland is doing the exact same things, only a week later!

      Mrs. Murrell openly admitted that Scotland had been following in lockstep with the UK government, which means that if the UK government has had a bad crisis, then Scotland has too.

      It’s all smoke and mirrors with Mrs. Murrell.

      Finally, the reason Scotland has lower casualty rates than England is simply down to population! 6 million people in Scotland will obviously produce lower numbers than a country with 60 million people! I bet if it’s boiled down to percentages and statistics, there’ll be near enough parity between Scotland and England.

      Scotland has borrowing powers. It could borrow the money to extend the furlough scheme itself and in the same instance, to behave and to be SEEN to behave in an autonomous manner which would help independence no end but like taking control of ‘devolved’ health and making its own decisions, it’s not likely to happen. It’ll be a return to ‘bleat, bleat, bleat, Westminster bad’ and all this.

      But what else do you expect when you have a social worker come regional administrator ‘leading’ a country?

    8. defo says:

      They’re Tories ffs.
      Expect the worst, you’ll not be far wrong.
      All about the ‘optics’. An awful Americanism.

    9. terence callachan says:

      there is a long way to go yet before we know what will happen in scotland.
      Furlough money will be paid to employers for the period up to 30/6/2020 on 30/6/2020
      So monthly paid people will get a months pay on 30/6/2020 for the period 1/6/2020 to 30/6/2020
      This will have to last them a month
      Which is normal

      Employers cannot claim july furlough in advance they can only claim it from 1/7/2020

      But the Furlough scheme runs until 31/10/2020

      Schools returning to normal is a big issue because if schools stay off and parents return to work childminding costs arise

      Coordination is required which means scottish govt health concerns have to team up with employers profit concerns which have to team up with parents

      It will work out
      Common sense will become ….common

    10. CameronB Brodie says:

      The English are culturally more individualistic and less supportive of social cooperation than Scots, that’s why Scotland has to put up with the ethical impoverishment of English Torydum. There are more of them than us, and English Torydum thinks it owns Scotland. It also hates the rule-of-law on an ideological level, hence the pathological urge to de-regulate the shit out of the public sphere.

      Scotland needs an escape route from the moral bankruptcy of British nationalism, a.k.a. English Torydum. It is our moral duty to tell Westminster to get tae.

      The Universal Precautionary Principle: New Pillars and Pathways for Environmental, Sociocultural, and Economic Resilience

      Abstract:
      Global environmental degradation is linked to a worldwide erosion of ethnic identity and cultural diversity, as well as market disruption. Cultures rely heavily on the local environment around them, and local communities play a key role in conserving natural resources. People’s identity, connection with land, and the adaptation of Indigenous and local knowledge are prerequisites for resilience.

      Though the Environmental Precautionary Principle (EPP) aims to tackle environmental degradation by privileging the environment in the face of uncertainty, it is not suffcient on its own; it does not take into account the intimate connection between nature and local culture, nor does it prioritize community or cultural wellbeing.

      We suggest expanding this concept into a multi-faceted Universal Precautionary Principle (UPP), which recognizes people’s connection to the land, and elevates community, cultural, and economic wellbeing as equally important values alongside environmental concerns. Here, we coin the Universal Precautionary Principle, outline its four core pillars – systems, governance, diversity, and resilience – and introduce its three subsets: Environmental Precautionary Principle, Sociocultural Precautionary Principle, and Economic Precautionary Principle.

      We discuss potential outcomes of its application, and offer operational guidelines to implement the Universal Precautionary Principle in practice, before concluding that it is a crucial tool to build environmental, sociocultural, and economic resilience. In essence, reciprocity is the keystone for continuance = if the environment is healthy, people are more likely to be healthy. Equally, if people are healthy, the environment is more likely to be healthy; for both people and the environment to be healthy, their culture and economy must be healthy.

      Keywords:
      cultural; diversity; environmental; governance; precautionary principle; resilience; sociocultural; socio=ecological systems; sustainability; systems; transformative resilience

      https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/8/2357/pdf

    11. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Once more, predictably, we’re witnessing the true effects of dependency and what it means to be but a region in Westminster’s reckoning of things in general. No debate, no analysis, nothing. Take it or leave it. It’ll be interesting to see for how long the 2 metre distancing rule survives. To paraphrase: Devolved governments are but committees to manage the affairs of their political bosses.

    12. Vinny says:

      Listening to Johnson talk about Scotland and Scots, he makes us out to be some kind of lowlife.

      He makes you feel like a beggar.

      He makes you feel worthless.

      And useless pricks like Wishart and Blackford do nothing to defend our rights.

      The whole fuckin lot of them sicken me to the core.

      I would gladly be the one who brought the walls of Westminster tumbling down, with that bastard Johnson and Co locked inside.

    13. Liz g says:

      Joe @ 11.15

      OT… Sorry Rev but this is a slippery bugger 🙂

      While we’re aw considered that Joe… How’s they “black” crime numbers and Glasgow crime numbers looking tae ye noo?
      Nip over to the other thread if you’ve worked out an answer!

    14. Rick H Johnston says:

      Facts are chiels that winna ding.
      Cases and deaths per million shows England has three times the death rate of Scotland.
      Simple arithmetic Mist001.

    15. Vinny says:

      Wishart was getting interviewed today on Sky and he talked in the future tense.

      Saying that listening to Johnson and Stammer until 2024 will be a total turn off for the voters.

      Wishart has no intention of fighting for Scottish Independence any time soon ladies and gentlemen.

      He is a self serving little Britnat.

      Ruth Davidson had more desire for Independence than Wishart.

      Wishart even applied for the job as Speaker of the House of Commons.

    16. Effijy says:

      Can we look over the reasons behind the Westminster Tories mismanagement of the Covid Virus.

      1, The Cygnus Exercise in 2016 showed the Tories that the NHS had no chance
      Of coping with the next virus epidemic which will obviously come.
      The report is hidden to mask the Tory choice of money before lives.

      2, The Tories had months of warnings about the Virus from China and yet again closer to home
      With devastation across Italy and Spain but this was ignored.

      3, Major events still allowed to take place with Tory blessing to send 250,000 people to Cheltenham
      Races, 10,000 Spanish Fans to play in Liverpool and a variety of big concerts.

      4, Boris doesn’t bother to attend 5 Emergency COBRA meetings as likes his weekends of during the
      Looming crisis.

      5, Mat Hancock lies day after day, week after week and month after month about the level of PPE
      kit in storage. Not enough, not the right kind and not able to distribute what is available.

      6, Tory Ministers repeatedly Forget to reply to EU offers to share PPE kit with the UK.

      7, Owner of UK based G -Tech works on his own initiative and in consultation with NHS Medics to produce Much needed Ventilators.
      Tories cancel the order in hope of getting Tory Party Funder James Dyson to produce Ventilators
      From his factory in Singapore.

      8, The Tories reject hundreds of offers from UK manufacturers to make PPE kit as they say that want
      Larger manufacturers to produce in larger numbers however NHS staff continue to be put in danger and many die as larger manufacturing numbers never materialise.

      9, Tories absurdly drop the category of this killer virus, the only ones on the planet to do so, in order
      To try and justify using less PPE kit. Medical staff further endangered and more die as a result.

      10, As PPE kit still short a massive order is placed with Turkey.
      Not only does it repeatedly fail to materialise but it’s sub standard when it does.

      11, Medical staff screening for testing kits but the Tories don’t have them and if they did they don’t have capacity to process them.

      12, Tory Michael Gove thinks his daughter might have the virus so she takes priority over Doctors
      and Nurses. Prince Charles gets priority too so Westminster can shove their we are all equal and in it together.

      13, Unelected Dominique Cummings concocts a complete fairy tale about breaking all the rules of Lockdown and refuses to apologise or resign as was demanded of others.

      14, Cummings not only put the public in danger but claimed that he travelled again while uncertain if
      His eye sight was adequate to do so.
      Not only outing the public in danger but his wife and child.

      15, Gove appears on LBC to try and back up Cummings lie by suggesting he too drive to test his ability to see rather than use opticians like normal people?

      16, Boris tells the country to keep your distance and not shake hands.
      Boris goes to a Live Civid ward and shakes hands with patients and medical staff??

      17, Millions spent on overflow Nightingale Hospital which where fully kited out other than
      They had no medical staff or PPE kit to support patients.

      18, Death stats reveal ethnic minorities are far more likely to die with the virus but no steps
      Taken by the Tories as more members of the medical profession die.

      19, Tories say face masks for the public have no benefit and now they say they do?

      20, Scientific advisors saying whatever Boris tells them to say the virus doesn’t live on paper such as
      Mail, then it does?

      21, Tories award massive non disclosure contracts with 89% to companies who support payments to the party.

      22, Tories refuse to be interviewed by UK media who want to confront their
      Dire performance being the 2nd worst nation out of hundreds on this planet
      Dealing with the virus.

      23, Tories say they are 100% focused on beating the virus but still have
      Teams working on Brexit?

      24, Numbers of PPE kit exaggerated by the Tories by counting a pair of gloves as 2 pieces of kit.

      25, Tories miss testing target so count kits put in the post as being tested ?

      25, Tories send out invoices for £1,200 to foreigners working in the NHS, who are risking their lives,
      If they wish to stay in the job for a 3 year extension.

      26, Boris has a car crash interview where no one could understand his latest lockdown rules.

      27, UK leaves borders open and those with Covid from any hit spot area can enter without checks?

      28, Having started out with the idea of using herd immunity and having to say a final fair well to family and friends which changed on public outcry, Boris is going for it again by easing lockdown
      restrictions while hundreds die each day and spikes abound in other countries who have also eased up.

      29, World class tracing App promised by the 1st June.
      Contract worth millions placed with Cumming’s relative.
      The App sees two thirds of those tested positive are not
      Being contacted as the App is inadequate.

      30, UK expected a max of 20,000 deaths and now we see 43,000 deaths
      Declared but the Excess Deaths not counted there would suggest 60,000 deaths so far.

      31, Germany has a much larger population than the UK but you are 5 times more
      Likely to die with the Covid Virus if you live in the UK.

      As Wings know Norway has many things in common with Scotland
      Other than no one stole their oil revenues had had 248 Covid deaths
      Having been wealthy and well prepared.
      Scotland has had more than 10 times the Covid Deaths in our Hospitals only?

      See what can be done when independent and in control of your own destiny!

    17. Liz g says:

      I cannot understand why the Scottish Government don’t say what they want to do loudly in plain language,and demand that Westminster get on board with it!
      Tell all of Scotland,as your government, here is what we recommend, and we expect Westminster to do what ever it takes to ensure our tax returns are made available to deal with the virus in the way * Scotland * requires.

      Why are we *asking* for a furlough extension?
      Why are we not telling them “here is what we need”?
      Why is our First Minister saying she won’t criticise how other parts of the UK respond but won’t demand that the UK treasury respond to Scotland’s requirements?

      We elected Holyrood to manage our affairs,they should set out the tax return needed to do so….and create merry he’ll if it’s refused!
      We’re no beggers at the gate here…Westminster should be made to pay up or try to explain the reason why not!!!

    18. dakk says:

      ‘it remains to be seen how long that divergence can be sustained.’

      11 days.

      Regards hair salons which are among the second in line re exposure/transmission.

      4th July England,15th Scotland.

      On a positive vein,the new strains of the virus may not be as virulent.

      Or they may be more so.

      No one knows.

      Not Boris,not Nicola,and certainly no one on here.

    19. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      You know what I find particularly annoying?

      Yep, I can understand peeps typing their potential comments in an app offline, then pasting into the comments box.

      So far, so good.

      But…

      Can yooz not check the preview box below the comment box to see how it’s gonna appear?

      It’s so annoying when you’re reading something, when a sentence starts a new line halfway through the sentence and even CAPITALISES the continuation!

      Please, don’t copy/paste from microsloth word – use a simple text app to put together your comments. Don’t use WORD!

    20. dakk says:

      Nice video Stuart.

      Was a stunning balmy night in Glasgow too, with Arcturus shining bright out to the west in the bright night sky.

    21. twathater says:

      @ LizG 12.48am hear, hear Liz but unfortunately that would mean taking a stand , something which NS will not do

      You have said oftentimes on here that 1 of the reasons you want indy is to get OUR govt within SLAPPING distance and I agree with you wholeheartedly , but we HAVE that just now and they are not listening never mind acting

      I have said repeatedly that WE the people elected the SNP and NS as OUR govt to protect and care for the people of Scotland, if NS believes that we need to ease lockdown slower than our neighbours , to remain safe and secure whilst still paying furloughed staff then she HAS to CONFRONT bozo and DEMAND the finances be made available , and if bozo REFUSES , NS should announce to the Scottish people that bozo is willfully endangering Scots lives through REFUSING those finances

    22. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 2.53
      At the risk of becoming a “mutual admiration society”
      Hear Hear right back at ye 🙂
      We can do nothing about Westminster,we never could,but we can,and we should,be askin …
      Holyrood where are ye?

      Westminster might have nae votes to loose ….but you do!
      Don’t morph into an imitation of Labour,because,up with that we will not put.

    23. susan says:

      Well said @ Liz g and twathater.

    24. Willie says:

      In England they are still building Nightingale Hospital. One was completed in Northampton the other week and another has just been commenced in an old Homebase store in Exeter.

      Since COVID 19 is a disease that kills predominately the over sixties and the health compromised the continued Nightingale hospital building with the concomitant removal of distancing restrictions tells you clearly that the Government expect another wave.

      The decision has therefore I think been made to reopen the economy and sacrifice the elderly. How bad it will be, and how many of the old fuckers will perish who knows. A rotten death amongst the masses was never a concern for the Tory elites. They’ll just have to take it on the chin.

      The words from Wilfred Owen are I think poignant when he described.. “ Bent double like old beggars under sacks….guttering, choking drowning….hanging face like a devil sick of sin…..the blood come gurgling from the froth corrupted lungs……..a grim picture of people, the wrecks of people taking it on the chin becomes apparent.

      Owen may have been describing a First World War gassing but is it really that much different from choking to death with Coronavirus and multiple organ failure.

      Ah well Beasts of England, suck it up, take it on the chin………” dulce et decorum est in pro patria mori “

    25. Capella says:

      SCOTLAND’S Finance Secretary Kate Forbes has formally requested new powers including the ability to borrow up to £500 million this year to help meet “the significant economic and fiscal… http://www.thenational.scot/news/18539827.kate-forbes-requests-new-financial-powers-deal-virus-crisis/?ref=appshr

    26. Willie says:

      Capella, thanks for your link to today’s National and from which I extract a quote from Kate Forbes.

      “Given the nature and scale of this crisis, and the economic impact it is having, I believe there is a strong case for temporary additional powers and flexibilities beyond those currently set out in the Fiscal Framework, alongside continued discussions on establishing clear and certain levels of consequential Covid-19 funding,” she told Barclay in the letter.

      So that’s it then. Can we have some TEMPORARY additional powers. I mean how about some TEMPORARY independence. Nothing to much now. A measly £500 million. whilst on Tuesday the Governor General breezed on stage with Benny the Banker saying that Scotland needed £6 billion of economic stimulus to tackle the recession.

      Well done Kate, you certainly do petty. Temporary additional powers, snivel, snivel, snivel.

      Or am I missing something?

    27. Sinky says:

      Willie there more than one way to skin a cat. By asking for temporary powers Kate Forces is highlighting the failure of devolution to those undecided about independence.

      BBC still milking hospital issues for what they are worth for 4th day. Any failings down to local health board not down Health Secretary.

      Scotland In Union Pennington still getting it wrong on 2 meter rule which is up to 10 times more effective than one meter. That is scientific not political.

    28. Ian McCubbin says:

      We need the border closed. We have 10 times less cases than England per head of Population.
      We need to take fiscal borrowing powers.
      Both of these will help get us clean of this virus like Norway and New Zealand.

    29. Capella says:

      @ Willie – OK, here’s Joanna Cherry also in today’s National

      THE fourth anniversary of the 2016 Brexit referendum passed earlier this week, with little fanfare. Even the most zealous Tories seemed reluctant to celebrate, given the double whammy coming at the… http://www.thenational.scot/news/18539804.brexit-process-clearly-illustrated-limits-devolution/?ref=appshr

    30. Muscleguy says:

      I’m not sure what the problem is. If all those spaced couples and groups and are from the same household/bubble then they are sitting spaced at least 2m apart per group. I expect the ‘officials’ were just confirming that the members of the larger groups where not more than one household/bubble.

      It wasn’t exactly a crowd, was it? Mind you a bear could have been hiding in there, or maybe dressed as pretend policeman.

    31. Muscleguy says:

      I take your points about the reckless policies of the UKGov they are transparently obvious. The worry of course is that people will now flood to Wales and Scotland. The police here should be very proactive. As soon as the English cross the border they are in breach of the law here as they will be more than 5 miles from home wiithout lawful excuse.

      There need to be signs on the border with Polis standing by.

    32. Sensibledave says:

      CBB

      You just don’t get it do you. You wrote “ The English are culturally more individualistic and less supportive of social cooperation than Scots.”

      Once again you make sweeping stereotypical generalisations about the character of people from a different country. All of your pseudo intellectual BS can’t hide your innate bigotry.

    33. susan says:

      I agree @ Muscleguy 7.49am. There is no reason why Police Scotland can’t police the border – it IS their operational border too, not just a national border. The excuses given so far have been positively weak. Welsh police forces seem able to police THEIR operational borders without issue.

    34. Dave A says:

      Current deaths per week per million of population
      England 15
      Wales 8
      Scotland 4
      Northern Ireland 2

    35. Vinny says:

      So if Boris opens up the skies to the whole world, then people flying into Scotland will have more freedom to move about and do as they please,,,while we Scots who have been in lockdown for 4 months, will have less freedom.

      Or is Nicola going to open up the whole of Scotland for everybody???

      Virus,,,what virus?

      I’m confused.

    36. Capella says:

      Summary of Scottish lockdown easing dates here – see Scot gov website for more detail:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53166816

    37. Capella says:

      Home page for Scot Gov covid 19 guidance here – links to more detail on route map and stages from home page.
      https://www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/

      It’s understandable that people who rely on the BBC for their information would be confused. Even on that BBC page I linked to above, which was in the Scotland section of the website and claimed to be telling people specifically about the situation in Scotland, felt obliged to add details of what PM Boris Johnston announced (for England). A simple link would have done.

    38. ScottieDog says:

      This was never a situation in which the Scottish govt could win. Had we diverged from the start the political opportunists, the Neil Findlays, of this world would accuse NS of playing political games.

      I had a phone call in February from the NHS telling me that someone a flight I was on had tested positive for COVID19. In total I received 4 phone calls following up my state of health (which was fine). It left me feeling very confident that things were going to be well handled. Then everything changed.

      This is very much down to Dominic Cummings’ and the cobra meetings.

      Economically, we have to be in step with WM. If england gets the virus, we get the virus. We can’t shut down our economy without central bank assistance.

    39. Capella says:

      However, Nicola Sturgeon set up her own expert advisory group very quickly, once it became clear that the SAGE group was not giving correct advice.

      https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-government-creates-own-covid19-expert-group_15284.htm

    40. Effijy says:

      What do you know there is a word in the dictionary that perfectly describes Boris Johnson!

      Cockwomble
      (noun) A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of their own wisdom and importance.

    41. robbo says:

      Rick H Johnston says:
      25 June, 2020 at 12:21 am
      Facts are chiels that winna ding.

      Thing is Mist001 comes on here quite regularly with his nonsense. He seems to think he’s some kinda fortune teller that gives us his super duper abilities of predicting things.
      He’s useless and a very bad troll. He has a fundamental basic lack of processing information.99.9% of things he says is lies,the 0.01% he states the obvious.

      Not one of those things he said there is correct.Starting with first sentence ,then it just gets worse.

    42. Willie says:

      And whilst we are talking about recession, and a recession bigger and deeper than anyone in living memory has ever seen, can Kate maybe tell us how far an extra £500 million of temporary borrowing will actually go.

      Currently around one third of our workforce is on furlough or out of a job. Rolls Royce, Swizzled Port, British Airways, Ryan Air, or the construction and tourist sectors to name but a few companies and sectors the shedding of jobs is absolutely huge.

      Less than ten million a week going forward over the next year to support recovery is a drop in the ocean. Real economic levers and permanent ones at that, is what Scotland needs. And tell us Kate, what happens in a few months when the Chancellor turns the taps off and delivers nothing to save Scotland from recessionary hell.to support.

      And oh how different it could be. What if Scotland were to take this an opportunity to capitalise on the plentiful wind energy around its shore. Yes we may have 25% of Europe’s wind but we do not supply the kit that delivers renewable energy. Do we make the turbines here, do we make the supply ships, the crane equipment or do we get the kit from elsewhere. ( hint – the new Viking wind farm off Shetland is securing Siemens turbines assembled in the Isle of Wight – can anyone think where the sea barges are manufactured?)

      At least with oil we built rigs at Nigg, Kishinev and Ardesier and developed a whole supply chain. But not with wind!

      A state owned renewable energy company too. Ah no, better with Ibderola of Spain. Who needs these things when you have McDonalds and Burger King jobs to fill

      Ah well at least on Tuesday Mrs Murrell trailed out Benny the Banker for a wee bit of photo shoot. But not wishing to be unkind to Benny I did wonder about his pedigree of being the ex head of retail banking for both RBS and HBOS both of which banks went spectacularly bust. And ad the now CEO for the affairs of the estate of the landed Duke of Buccleugh, it did cross my mind as to exactly what message Mrs Murrell was trying to convey.

      But maybe I misunderstand. Maybe the Duke of Westminster would have been a better choice. But No time for independence, now is not the time. Just give us another mandate in 2021.

      You couldn’t make it up. You really couldn’t!

    43. Mike d says:

      Twathater 2.53pm and liz g 12.48am. Well said indeed, i think half the time this is why my frustrations boil over when the FM just stands there like a little lap dog and takes this sh**e from westminster, instead of going for their jugular like a Rottweiler.

    44. Rick H Johnston says:

      The SG said when the Isle of Wight trials were announced that this project would only ever be used in addition to physical test/protect.
      Now that the IOW thing has been proved a failure the UK is claiming that it was only ever a back up.
      Cynical. UK Govt floundering on Covid.
      Indy required, but Scottish politicians head and shoulders above their London opposite numbers.
      Just don’t expect English Labour to point to Scotland as the way to go.

    45. Famous15 says:

      A “wee “ bit sad today to see Ian Rankins photos of the litter left in the Meadows,Edinburgh which would indicate Bath was better! Sad also after being in a large supermarket in Edinburgh and was the only person wearing a mask.I was also called “ignorant “ for blocking the 1.5 metre aisle with my trolly while staying within my 2 metre line.

    46. Shug says:

      Classic piece in the herald today
      Headline Scotland death rate worst, in the detail the numbers show otherwise

      Has Indy ref 2 started????

    47. Ottomanboi says:

      “Scientists warned” hmmm, i think the science in this man made crisis has been rather obscured by a rash of dodgy computer models which have failed to deliver the ‘end of days’ infection and death rates predicted and a media which has swallowed the worst case theme with gluttonous relish; pure science fiction no less.
      The superannuated NHS construct has been ‘saved’ through the postponing of urgent admissions and surgery to deal with a scenario that never presented.
      National governments and international organizations have exposed their fallibility and their reliance on a ‘scientific consensus’ that never existed, certainly not among virologists.
      Any doubts about government capacity to handle crises have been reinforced by events and the serious damage inflicted on already rickety economies, although the megarich influencers have done rather well.
      The packed crowds on Bournemouth beach show that people will socialize that silly laws cannot be enforced.
      In the end people will, unknowingly maybe, cut the authoritarian crap.
      Suppression is melting away in the sun.
      The mess it leaves will not so easily disappear.

    48. auld highlander says:

      Effigy,

      He’s just a Gobshite.

    49. John H. says:

      Scottish police,300 or so, were or are standing by for transfer to N.I. So why can’t some of those police be used to protect our border? Of course, that would make Scots feel that they had a degree independence, and we can’t have that can we?

    50. Willie says:

      Capella @ 7.34 am

      Thanks for posting the link to the National article about the lack of cheer from many Tories about their 2016 Brexit victory.

      What the Tories think or do not think does not concern me. What concerns me is that we are being dragged out of Europe against our will. Against what we voted for. Against what the SNP said they would resist. That is for me reality and I am desperately disappointed about how the SNP leadership is performing.

      We are in the jaws of a double whammy crisis. A badly managed health crisis and an even mor badly managed economic crisis. Make no mistake real incomes are set to fall and fall dramatically. The chairman of the Treasury committee is already talking about cancelling old age pension indexation but that is just small beer.

      One third of Scottish workers are currently on furlough or not working. Day and daily the job loss announcements just rack up. We need a national plan to redress that.

      Norway set up Statoil. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states all too set up oil companies. So why not a Scottish state renewable energy company.

      Or what of more rail electrification. Or what about port capacity development. The current plan to extend the Aberdeen Harbour has currently hit the buffers big time with the contractor walking away from a project in crisis.

      Can we not create jobs and infrastructure for the future in areas like this. Well no, we don’t have the power as a devolved authority nor does it seem do we have the vision. But as this crisis moves on, events may force revised thinking, revised vision. Things need to change. They cannot go on like this.

      Poverty awaits us all with riches for the few if we do not change course. I want a vibrant, economically successful Scotland participating in Europe. Yes, things need to change!

    51. Bob Mack says:

      Can anyone on this site REALLY believe that lockdown has not decreased the number of fatalities. We already have over 50 % more deaths in this country of the civilian population than were recorded in WW2.

      The figures are lower because we had lockdown. It’s not rocket science. It’s ok to swim with sharks whilst your in a cage. Not so clever in open water.

    52. Dan says:

      @Mike d

      “…shite from westminster” you say. Well I read there’s been more, this time involving the Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick acting in an unlawful manner to assist millionaire Tory donor Richard Desmond with the Westferry Printworks Waterfront Development in London’s East End.

      Westminster – Mother of all Parliaments, nah, with all the pish n’ shit that goes on there it’s more like the Mother of all Sewerage Processing Plants.

      Scotland, why are you still meekly accepting the volume of corruption that goes on in this UK Union.
      Aye, an Indy Scotland may well have corrupt types attempting to operate in our jurisdiction as well, but we as the electorate will have the ability to actually do something about it because our fully empowered Scottish Government will be directly elected by us, and not by our larger neighbouring country with 10 times the vote share that continues to vote for and tolerate idiots.

    53. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      “Once again you make sweeping stereotypical generalisations about the character of people from a different country. All of your pseudo intellectual BS can’t hide your innate bigotry.”

      I have a training in cultural morphology and comparative cognition and stuff. Where as you’re simply culturally-bound and determined to insist Britain is one nation. You’re the cultural bigot not me, Toryboy.

      A Cultural Neuroscience Approach to the Biosocial Nature of the Human Brain
      https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-psych-071112-054629

    54. Martin says:

      “Mist001 says:

      24 June, 2020 at 11:23 pm

      Westminster said ‘Stay Alert’..

      ..Mrs. Murrell openly admitted that Scotland had been following in lockstep with the UK government, which means that if the UK government has had a bad crisis, then Scotland has too.

      Scotland has borrowing powers. It could borrow the money to extend the furlough scheme itself and in the same instance, to behave and to be SEEN to behave in an autonomous manner which would help independence no end but like taking control of ‘devolved’ health and making its own decisions, it’s not likely to happen.”

      I mostly agree with you. Scotland’s response has been no less tragic than the rest of the UK. People can argue about the reasons why, but the facts are inescapable. And this is not unusual. THe UK has 1% of world population (roughly) but 10% of seasonal flu deaths annually. We don’t do well with viruses.

      But I must disagree about borrowing powers. That is something Scotland specifically does NOT have. Nor can it redirect underspent money from capital projects. All of this could be a cunning ploy by Westminster to stop Scotland making radically different policies and showing them up. YOu may think that, I couldn’t possibly comment.

    55. Capella says:

      @ Willie – upon my word, the answer is self evident – next time you’re asked the question, say YES and persuade everyone else to do the same.

    56. Dan says:

      One wonders if New Caledonia is Big Enough, Rich Enough, Smart Enough

      Nae “once in a generation” pish for them it seems. Maybe we should ask them if they got one of them Section 30 things so it is a “Gold Standard” democratic event…

      https://twitter.com/KristinaHafoss/status/1275867310268522498

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why should Scotland borrow to cover additional cost uncured through the criminal negligence of HMG? We have been badly let down by Westminster and now they want us to carry the financial can. That’s English Torydum for you, dishonest, unprincipled, and a danger to your health.

    58. stookie1967 says:

      Famous15 9:22

      Well done you ?
      Stand your ground!
      And re the mess, one of the few pleasures during lockdown has been the lack of takeaway litter on our city streets

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I was forgetting my place. Of course we should bow down to the wisdom of Westminster.

      Learned helplessness
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141652/

    60. Beaker says:

      A few thoughts on this muggy morning.

      The lockdown was essential. You reduce infection by reducing the opportunity.

      The shortage of PPE is nothing short of criminal. No excuse can justify what happened.

      But the worst thing that happened was the way Dominic Cummings was handled. I can’t think of anything in the past 30 years that has destroyed what little trust people had in politicians. It has made the job of the police impossible.

      Test and trace is a fucking joke. “World beating app?” Fuck off.

      The only good decision has been to build temporary hospitals. The contingency was needed, given what had happened in Spain and Italy.

      We’re going to get a second wave, and if god forbid it hits in winter.

    61. ScottieDog says:

      Park Life – such an iconic song of the 90s. For me anyway!

    62. Dr Jim says:

      The Isle of Man has more borrowing powers than Scotland

    63. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 9.55

      You wrote “I have a training in cultural morphology and comparative cognition and stuff.”

      …. or to paraphrase, because you are pseudo intellectual, it’s ok to be a bigot, because you have been told that is ok to be a bigot, by bigots.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      “…. or to paraphrase, because you are pseudo intellectual, it’s ok to be a bigot, because you have been told that is ok to be a bigot, by bigots.”

      You bigotry runs deep, Toryboy, its’ in your genes. So I’ll not take the threat you pose my well-being as an intentional personal attack. You just can help being an English Toryboy.

      Culture and Identity
      The History, Theory, and
      Practice of Psychological
      Anthropology

      https://dl.uswr.ac.ir/bitstream/Hannan/131195/1/Charles_Lindholm_Culture_and_Identity_The_History%2C_Theory%2C_and_Practice_of_Psychological_Anthropology__2007.pdf

    65. donnywho says:

      One thing I can and will guarantee is that England will recover faster than Scotland.

      There are some real and simple drivers for this.

      Firstly that the monies spent and raised for this emergency have avoided parliamentary scrutiny. This has allowed the government of the day to spend this windfall with their preferred suppliers. A good example would be the tracking app that never was, at a cost of hundreds of millions. Or an accounting company running the tracing for the England. Work for Serco and s4g both serial
      Fraudsters but huge financial supporters of the Tories.

      Without parliamentary oversight there will be no Barnett consequencials but we will share our share of the spend. It took 4 years to get the Farm monies from the EU that was sent to Scotland but spent as an Uplift predominantly in England. We eventually got that money but England got to keep their overspend… which we will get billed for as our share of general expenditures.

      Do you think that a Man who believes that a pound spent in Croydon is more valuable than a pound spent in Strathclyde will support the regions let alone the devolved governments? Do you think he will support Tory donors over labour councils in the midlands?

      A trillion of cash sloshing around the system printed by the BoE this is debt that we will all have to pay but the vast majority is going to companies and propping it the stock market.

      Like quantitive easing it is a scam transferring wealth to the wealthy and leaving the poor with debt!

      Back to Scotland I have friends in the tourist industry which has been booming for the last decade… it is taking ca massive hit and will take years to recover.

    66. Athanasius says:

      Loo roll? Diarrhea is not a symptom. As far as I can see, there is, at least at present, no prevention and no cure for this. Therefore, the choices are a) go to a huge amount of trouble and expense to have no other effect than to allow the children of the sixties onward to congratulate themselves on how compassionate they are, at least until the suicide, depression and home repossession figures come in, all while waiting for our immune systems to deal with it or b) let our immune systems deal with it. Once again, the new leftist cultural order triumphs.

    67. robbo says:

      Its us joe public that are getting screwed.

      https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1275777144875073536

      For those of you who keep on harping about UK gov bailing out everyone with furlough ,its bollocks. UK Government doesn’t have bundlles of cash stuffed under houses of parliament,they never have done. They’ve borrowed YOUR money as tic.It sits on the bank books as a liability and also a debt to you cos you borrowed it from a bank.
      Its the classic ‘money out of thin air’ bollocks. Waken up.

      Sunak is a wee con man that needs to spend some of his own money and buy a suit that fucking fits the wee weed.

    68. Capella says:

      AUOB are staging static Demos in July, August and September. Limited numbers and a booking form available:

      https://twitter.com/AUOBALBA/status/1276078310527848448?s=20

    69. ahundredthidiot says:

      We are about to jump from a reasonably cold frying pan into a furious and raging fire.

      1. Recession will quickly move to Depression

      2. UK Unemployment to hit 20% by Christmas – higher in Scotland

      3. 2021 will witness 18 – 25 y/o unemployment rate hit, and stay at, 25%, for at least 10 years

      4. Tories will make sweeping changes in the next budget to remove what little red-tape remains safeguarding pensions – and then they will raid them.

      5. IF the UKG borrow from central bank, we will see hyper-inflation – and that usually leads to War, probably with China for ‘leaking’ fake coronavirus’s to cripple and bankrup the West.

      6. The NHS will be privatised within 5 years

      7. If all around is miserable everywhere, might as well move somewhere sunny!

      8. Through it all, COVID N*zis will keep on banging on about the flu

      9. Hope you enjoyed your little holiday folks – time to pay the bill

    70. ahundredthidiot says:

      Hell – I missed 10

      10. forget loo roll – a bucket and a piece of cloth will do, it will be the least of your worries.

    71. ahundredthidiot says:

      5. should’ve said ‘fake coronavirus VIDEOS’ – do’h

    72. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Once again, the new leftist cultural order triumphs.”

      That’s piss poor right-wing populism, that is.

      The SAGE Handbook of Environment and Society
      Chapter 40: The Precautionary Principle in Environmental Policies

      http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/hdbk_envirosociety/n40.xml

    73. Athanasius says:

      Well, Cameron, it’s not really right wing, and it’s not at all popular. Other than that, bullseye.

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      Athanasius
      I don’t think you actually know your arse from your elbow, so I’m not that interested in what you have to say, frankly.

      Law, Probability and Risk, Volume 5, Issue 1, March 2006, Pages 19–31
      The precautionary principle: a new approach to public decision-making?

      https://academic.oup.com/lpr/article/5/1/19/990788

    75. Betty Boop says:

      @Lizg, 12:48am

      Spot on Liz, as usual 🙂

      Too much soft pedalling from the FM.

      Is it any wonder when considering behaviour in England from that government of spivs and what seems like a generally sheep-like population that I think of “The Life of Brian”? It’s not funny though. The devolved nations are not just democratically and economically threatened by Westminster’s lack of care and contempt, it’s a matter lives.

      England needs to leave the union and leave the other nations in peace. They can have their border, all round and do as they please.

      In the meantime FM, as Liz says, get them telt what is required from our Treasury, etc., close off the border to southern “tourists” to make our lockdown efforts worthwhile and get on with ending this ridiculous, colonial “relationship” which bears no resemblance to a union anyway. What’s the point of waiting to see how bad it can get? We know it’s not going to get better because England won’t leave.

      MPs, representatives of the Scottish Parliament (not Scotgov) sitting in Westminster, where England’s representatives disrespect the union with Scotland and over-rule on Scottish affairs as it suits them, why are you still there?

    76. Dan says:

      @robbo

      Aye, maybe time for a wee reminder of the bigger picture of what “Brexit” is all about.
      I’ve even been in a room where cross party peer Lord Kerr stated this is just a right wing coup.

      https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228225075695898624

      https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228279980884463619

      https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18/matthew-sarah-elliott-uk-power-couple-linking-us-libertarians-and-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-brexit

      And folk still wonder why some Indy folk are scunnered with the lack of urgency with some in the SNP / Scottish Government Administration in making moves to protect Scotland from a future controlled by these fuckers.
      Yet with all this going on Holyrood appears to be distracted with smaller highly emotive and divisive policies that we can sort out after we return to being an Independent country… 🙁

    77. Vinny says:

      Speaker of the House:

      Let’s go to Croydon north.
      Let’s go to Scotland
      Let’s go to Manchester SE
      Let’s go to Lewisham East
      Let’s go to Scotland
      Let’s go to Liverpool west
      Let’s go to Newcastle South
      Let’s go to Portsmouth west
      Let’s go to Scotland

      A bit of a pattern forming there.

      According to the speaker of the House of of Commons there are NO towns or cities North of the border.

      Just a cold wind swept place called Scotland,,,where every single Scottish MP is shacked up.

      We mean nothing to these arrogant, patronising bastards.

    78. Betty Boop says:

      Re my post at 11:55am… I should have said “Westminster’s lack of care and its contempt”..

    79. iain mhor says:

      @Dan 10:14am

      Aye, because they are a French colony.
      I mentioned some time ago that had Scotland been a Colony, Protectorate etc. It would have been accorded more indelible international rights.
      So it’s part of the ‘de-colonisation process’, their second referendum of a possible three under the French agreements (Matignon and Noumea Accord)

      First they had to agree no Indy Campaign for a decade ’88-’98
      so both sides could get their ducks in a row. They subsequently had ‘Sovereignty’ transferred and now get a few bites of the cherry to try and deliver Indepenedence via referendums.

      They also had a referendum on whether the peoples agreed they should have an Indyref. It’s more a case of the decolonisation should occur – so keep having a referendum until you get a result.
      An interesting part of their parliamentary structure is that the President & Vice Presidents should be from ooposing pro-anti Indy for balance.

      So, there you have it. Scotland is basically hamstrung because it ostensibly agreed to Union as opposed to having it forced upon them *cough
      So there is no aegis of decolonisation under which to become independent. Or in Scotlands case, resume her independence.

      Of course the logic being that countries in such voluntary agreements *cough have no need of such a process, as they retain their own sovereignty and rights to decide to cease/exit such an arrangement.

      I mean no-one would have been mad enough to be in a situation where they were neither a colony, nor an independent nation in voluntary treaty – but just unilaterally surrendered their nation to another without a shot fired. That’s just crazy man.

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      “I’ve even been in a room where cross party peer Lord Kerr stated this is just a right wing coup.”

      I’ve said as such myself. For example, there is no way that Brexit’s ‘planning’ was in anyway compatible with the requirements of the Treasury’s Green Book, so Brexit should not have been signed-off to go to legislation. Not in a democracy anyway.

    81. Roland Smith says:

      Scotland 7 days average deaths 3, 7 day average new infections 18.

      England yesterday 280 days deaths reported on world corno stats and just less than a 1000 new infection.
      Have to say in Aberdeen not huge evidence of large gatherings even allowing for the weather though things are loosening up. One of many sensible decisions is opening beer gardens etc. outside on a Monday before opening inside and also currently retaining 2 metre rule and if it changes hopefully goes for Germany 1.5 metre. I would hope mask policy will be made mandatory in shops before malls reopen.
      England is going for the same second spike policy as the more Trump like states in the US have done. Unfortunately we unlike New York, for example cannot impose internal quarantine on people from down south coming here.

    82. auld highlander says:

      I wonder who the narrow minded unionist moron was that was creeping around tying banners to the railings near Bute House in the middle of the night.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18541261.banner-comparing-nicola-sturgeon-hitler-appears-near-bute-house/

    83. Athanasius says:

      OK, Cameron. Guess you’re going to stop answering me now, then.

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      Athanasius
      You strike me as standing firmly on the right of British politics, so you can’t expect me to respond positively to you bullshit logic. I’m happy to debate, but please try to keep things real. Mkay?

    85. Chic McGregor says:

      Alexa “What is Boris Johnson carrots one hundred, in Welsh?”

    86. Mialuci says:

      I love youtube, when I am there I can look into the lives of people in other countries mostly through the blogs of people we call westerners
      The poverty in a lot of the countries is truly abominable to say the least, just getting enough food is a daily struggle for lots of people in these places.
      Maybe that is why I get a bit annoyed by a lot of whingers and moaners that inhabit this place they call The United Kingdom, I have been in some of these poor countries and I can say in all honesty that people here are living in luxury compared to them.
      There is a saying count your blessings, but how can you count something that you do not seem to realise you have.
      The world is not a perfect place, people do make mistakes especially in public life, we witness that every day, I treat people as honest reliable and trustworthy until I find out different, but I, unlike a lot of others have not suddenly turned into some kind of expert on every subject under the sun.
      Who am I to say that the government is wrong in the way it is dealing with the present situation, we will learn from what is happening and have a better understanding about it when all the data is looked at in the future.
      If anyone looks into the spanish flu epidemic about one hundred years ago there are some interesting bits of info there, the americans where shipping soldiers to france in ships that where so packed that men where sleeping crammed up beside each other, before the men where allowed to board the ships they had a medical to see if they had signs of the flu, ofc the medical was simply to look and see if you looked like you had it or not.
      As the medical was basically a waste of time, and anyway doctors are not there to find men unfit for action, after all there was a war on.
      Anyway, the ships left with all those so called healthy men on board, but while at sea the flu appeared, men where dying in their hundreds on each ship, nowhere to go you see, I have seen photos of the mass of bodies being put overboard, the usual services where held of course for the dead.
      I think Spain lost about 5 million people, it was called spanish flu, but they think it came originally from america, well americans with the flu did land in France so that’s a possibility I suppose.
      My point if there is one in this story concerns us as human beings, we should not be so quick to blame others, sometimes stuff happens and that’s how we learn not to make the same mistakes in the future we hope, all I can say is that, most people are doing their best as far as I can see to get by as best and as safely as they can, and that’s all we can do in times like these

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      I smell shit.

      Precautionary Principle: The Wingspread Statement
      Lessons Learned: Looking Back to Go Forward

      https://www.healthandenvironment.org/environmental-health/social-context/history/precautionary-principle-the-wingspread-statement

    88. mike cassidy says:

      Whether or not you think lockdown had a significant effect

      There’s no point pretending you are implementing a gradual social unwinding of it when scenes like this happen.

      https://twitter.com/Bournemouthecho/status/1276052552556175367

      Effectively this is playing ‘win or bust’ with the virus.

      No second wave. What was all the worrying about.

      An actual second wave. At least I got a shit day at the beach first.

    89. Carol Jardine says:

      Robbo at 11.27
      See Richard Murphy, economist and chartered accountant. The UK government has owned the Bank of England since 1946. They can print as much money as is needed at any time.

    90. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      Daily rise in new +vet tests in Scotland (7DRA) Mon 20, Tue 19.6, Wed 17.9, Thur 17.
      Same metric for the UK as of yesterday (7DRA) 1,123. On a per capita basis we’re out by a factor of 5 to the UK rate of new infection. If you back calculate a figure for England, taking out the very low rates in Scotland & N.I. (11% of UK population), were out by nearly five and a half fold.
      England (Boris and Dom) have relaxed restrictions way too early. The supposed “scientific advice” to relax the two meter rule still hasn’t been released. Hmm, I wonder why?
      A second wave in England is a racing certainty, just look at the spike in the US curve.

    91. iain mhor says:

      Why do I always get the impression that Coronavirus is the new Y2K with the perpetual cries of “Nothing much happened, there was no need for such action after all”

      Nothing much happened with Y2K, because of the action taken.
      Personally, I worked relentlessly on testing and patching systems at the time. Although a great deal of remedial ‘patching’ was in ‘low level’ systems and could be deemed irrelevent (or would have had ‘low impact’ if not corrected) I can assure that other systems most definitely did require remedial action and the shit would most definitely have hit the fan without it.

      Yet apparently my efforts were useless, worthless and just a big scam – because, hey, nothing happened, it was nowhere near as bad as we were told. Well, d’uh – maybe there were reasons for that.

    92. jfngw says:

      Iain Macwhirter has certainly gone native:

      https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1275834507887890432

      Maybe this is why:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCzKqM567Ek

      The desire to hold on trumps everything.

      (Posted again as I screwed up the youtube link).

    93. jfngw says:

      We’ve all worked with the Macwhirters of this world, the ones you know are talking mince but are so full of assertive self confidence they drown out the people that know the real facts, and the gullible believe the snake oil as it’s more appealing.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland is in a dire situation, so you can imagine the intense pressure that is being brought to bear on the yoonstream. Scotland’s civic society must bend to English Torydum. There is no alternative, apparently.

      Constitutional authoritarianism, not authoritarian constitutionalism!
      In these times of re-emerging illiberalism, populism and authoritarianism, there is an increasing need for us to attempt to find new academic concepts to describe the phenomena that are emerging. These efforts can also help to redefine existing forms of constitutional developments.

      One increasingly common term used is authoritarian constitutionalism, which seems to fit into the debates of the last decades like global constitutionalism or international constitutionalism, and appears to describe new developments in constitutionalism.

      I am, however, deeply convinced that the use of the term authoritarian constitutionalism in an academic or public debate is misleading, conceptually wrong and politically dangerous. It is therefore necessary to respond to an attempt to conceptualise authoritarian constitutionalism, as recently suggested by Roberto Niembro in a post on Völkerrechtsblog (see also Niembro, 2016 Verfassung und Recht in Übersee 339-367).

      Niembro defines authoritarian constitutionalism as “a concept that refers to a very sophisticated way in which ruling elites with an authoritarian mentality exercise power in not fully democratic states. In this case, the regime’s liberal democratic constitution, instead of limiting the power of the state and empowering those who would otherwise be powerless, is used for practical and authoritarian ideological functions.”

      Although Niembro concedes, that there is a contradiction contained within the concept (“At first glance, authoritarian constitutionalism appears absurd and nonsensical.”), he justifies the concept as “a perplexing category, but not absurd”. He argues that it “emphasizes the tension between the exercise of power within ill-defined limits, lack of accountability, and how the ruling elite executes and masks its violence under the forms of the constitution, and the idea of constitutionalism.”

      Ultimately, he wants to establish this concept “not to hide or justify these authoritarian functions”, but to use it as “a tool that helps us understand, uncover, and critique those functions. In this sense, authoritarian constitutionalism is normatively attractive as a critical tool.”

      As his post and his article make clear, Niembro is not disputing the classic concept of constitutionalism, which serves the ideas and ideals of a liberal democracy, the rule of law and the protection of human rights. Constitutionalism as a concept is therefore a liberal ideology, a political program and a normative concept. Authoritarianism is very much the opposite of the concept of constitutionalism, arguing in favour of illiberalism, limiting democracy, extending the power of the government, rule by law and restricting the rights of individuals….

      https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/constitutional-authoritarianism-not-authoritarian-constitutionalism/

    95. Dan says:

      Missed this at the time but noticed it during a browse of the FOW twitter account which is still steadily increasing its followers.

      https://twitter.com/FOWingsScot

      Regional list development for Mid Scotland and Fife.

      https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1275454601395793927

    96. bipod says:

      There is no scientific evidence to back up the claim that the lockdown suppressed the virus. Just look at countries that did not have a lockdown or a very light lockdown, they either performed just as badly or better than us. The point is there is no correlation between lockdown and successfully controlling the virus. Its all wishful thinking.

      Politicians will never of course admit that they made a mistake with lockdown and overreacted as that would damage their image. With the public a lot of people are emotionally invested in the lockdown. They were screaming for it back in March when they were wiped up into a frenzy by the media and now they can’t accept that maybe it didn’t make any difference at all and they wasted 3 months of everyones lives for nothing. So politicians like nicola sturgeon will continue spinning the narrative that it was her mass house arrest policy that stopped the virus, and it was her farcical social distancing/bubbling policies that stopped the mythical second wave, completley devoid of any evidence but the public will happily eat it up because its what they want to hear.

    97. robbo says:

      Carol Jardine says:
      25 June, 2020 at 12:55 pm
      Robbo at 11.27

      Yes ,exactly.They don’t want to though because its debt that makes the world go round paper money is basically monopoly money, a fiat currency, bit of worthless paper.Too much in circulation and you’d need a wheelbarrow to go buy a loaf of bread.
      Did you realise when you deposit money into bank its THEIRS, NOT YOURS, it’s a funny old game ain’t it.lol

      Now a nice gold bar,that’s the real stuff.The stuff that Gordon Brown sold for peanuts.The guys that bought it are laughing all the way to the bank lol again. And so it goes on,nice yacht,nice house in Monaco,Barbados…

    98. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      25 June, 2020 at 1:53 pm
      There is no scientific evidence to back up the claim that the lockdown suppressed the virus.

      Brazil, USA , tic toc

    99. Scozzie says:

      Not really sure why folks think lockdown does not have a suppresive impact on an novel infectious virus. I agree that locking down a whole country is not feasible in the long term and a sensible opening up needs to happen. However….

      I work in a hospital – should we have an outbreak of any kind of infection we lock down the ward immediately – i.e. to suppress the transmission across the hospital. That includes no healthcare workers working in other areas / no family visitors / using negative-pressure rooms for infectious patients / and of course correct use of PPE, etc etc .

      It’s a relatively scalable process in a community or a country provided it can be adhered to – the point is containment. If you have symptoms stay the fuck at home – simples! General public – keep your physical distance from others, do not mix in large crowds and clean, clean, clean.

      The problem is that when it needs to be scaled up in a community / country context not everyone follows the safety guidelines and so outbreaks happen.

      As has happened here in Melbourne, we relaxed restrictions. People got complacent, and now we have hotspot outbreaks across the city. Yes, we have low numbers but this virus seems to be ‘persistent’ and not burning out.

      It’s good restrictions are now relaxing back home but please don’t assume outbreaks can’t or won’t happen.

    100. Scozzie says:

      I should add if you’re unwell get as much sunlight and fresh air as possible – just stick to your back garden not mixing at the beer garden 🙂

    101. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Robert Jenrick backed by Boris Johnstone

      No10 said this morning that the under-fire Housing Secretary still had the support of Boris Johnson after documents showed he rushed through approval of the Westferry Printworks development to save Richard Desmond £45million.
      Bombshell text messages released by the Ministry of Housing last night showed that the former Express owner opposed paying the fees to the Labour-run council, saying he didn’t want to hand cash to ‘Marxists’

      Well that’s okay then….nothing to see here.

      This is actually a scandal clear example as possible not only of corruption at Westminster but the outrageous disregard for the public.

      The man should have resigned. No but wait put that £12,000 bung to Tory party funds in your pocket.

      Some people in Scotland, admittedly now a minority, want to be ruled by these crooks.

    102. Dogbiscuit says:

      There will be no second wave.

    103. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 1.49pm

      I can’t see the point of Keating standing as an independent. Surely pro-indy supporters who want an alternative to SNP or Greens should be trying to avoid having multiple choices?

      Unless he has a particularly big local following or presence, or he’s going to do a deal with ISP or any other major new entrant like Wings or Alex Salmond, he risks splitting the vote. I suppose he may have a high enough profile personally from the S30 Court hearing stuff?

      I had a few run ins with him on twitter in the past: he always seemed a bit bumptious and up himself to be honest.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      @Dogbiscuit,

      “There will be no second wave”

      Is that a quite from everybody who meets you for the first time?

    105. Dogbiscuit says:

      Norwegian Government recently admitted they could have done without ‘lockdown’ . That lockdown was an exaggerated response to a virus with no more lethality than heavy flu. There are questions to ask about quality of the death statistics. Dodgy Government statistics .

    106. Robert graham says:

      Aye Jerick .
      Some folk call it Graft
      Some folk call it Fraud
      Some folk call it Criminal behaviour in a public office
      Forget all these examples let’s just call it what it is
      THEFT – or or if you want a sanitised version
      NORMAL TORY BEHAVIOUR
      That’s it folks yer till is being raided and yer life savings are in some scabby Tory fkrs offshore bank
      A SHORT MESSAGE TO THE ONES WHO VOTED NO in 2014
      This is all your fkn fault every single one of you hunts , Happy ? .

    107. callmedave says:

      Numbers today:

      Scotland…….today….02…….Total…..2482…BBC
      Wales……….today….06…….Total…..1497…BBC
      N. Ireland…..today….00…….Total……547…BBC
      England……..today…*55…….Total…no data..*SUN
      =====================================================
      UK………….today…145…….Total….43230…BBC

      All kicking off today darn Sarf , flocking to the beaches local services overwhelmed and it’s a jolly holiday season catch up.
      No social distancing and no masks ‘they think it’s all over’

      ‘Watch this space’ as Boris said last week. 🙁

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      You’re inner Tory is showing through, and it’s not a pretty sight.

      BOOK REVIEW:
      SOCIAL JUSTICE: THE MORAL FOUNDATIONS OF PUBLIC
      HEALTH AND HEALTH POLICY

      Authored By: Madison Powers and Ruth Faden *
      In this pathbreaking book, senior bioethicists Powers and Faden confront foundational issues about health and justice. How much inequality in health can a just society tolerate? In a world filled with inequalities in health and well-being, which inequalities matter most and are the most morally urgent to address?

      In order to answer these questions, Powers and Faden develop a unique theory of social justice that, while developed for the specific contexts of public health and health policy, applies equally well to other realms of social policy,
      including education and economic development. The book includes a careful comparison of Powers and Faden’s approach to social justice with those of other theorists, including notably Rawls, Sen, and Nussbaum.

      With their eyes firmly fixed on the injustices of this world and what is known about their causal determinants, Powers and Faden place a six dimensional theory of well-being at the heart of their theory of justice. They then explore the implications of this theory for public health, the medical market place, and the setting of priorities in health policy.

      In the process, they arrive at arresting conclusions about the moral foundations of public health, childhood, the relevance of social groups to questions of justice, and the proper role for economic analysis in social policy. The audience for the book is scholars and students of bioethics and moral and political philosophy, as well as anyone interested in public health and health policy.

      http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1791&context=facpub

    109. robbo says:

      The dug. They’ll be not second wave as long as you get locked in a padded cell with no access to anyone or a computer.

      Then we’ll all be a bit safer.

    110. Dogbiscuit says:

      Scozzie virus is here to stay of course it will seem to flare from time to time. You can’t expect the human race to go into hibernation every year and besides ‘ lockdown’ isn’t about health .Its about regulating and controlling the public.Micro management of our lives. Pubs and restaurants are being rendered useless by overly onerous anti social distancing regulations.
      Mandatory masks are dehumanising . Having to live under prime ministerial fiat is not democratic.
      Stop being frightened by the media.

    111. Scozzie says:

      Dogbiscuit @ 3.07pm
      If your comment is aimed at me – I didn’t say there would be a second wave…jeez the UK ain’t even out of the first wave!

      What I’m saying is that just because restrictions are being lifted – don’t be complacent. Outbreaks will happen.

      Of course, that’s no concern to the WM government. They couldn’t give two fucks if some more pensioners die and a few poor folk as well.

      I’m just pre-warning based on our experience here in Oz with very low numbers that outbreaks are springing up here in Melbourne. And it’s all down to peeps not following health guidelines.

      The UK is lifting restrictions with still hundreds of cases and piss poor testing / tracing / isolating. Oz lifted restrictions with only double-digit restrictions with pretty good testing / tracing / isolating and now we’ve got spikes. You do the maths.

    112. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo If you’re not willing to be sensible could you just pine away quietly like all the other old buggers who have been confined to their holes. Useless fucking coward.

    113. Scozzie says:

      sorry that meant to say double digit cases

    114. Dogbiscuit says:

      I’ve been complaisant throughout this bogus ‘crisis’ because Government propaganda has never rung true to me.

    115. Dogbiscuit says:

      Instead of doing math maybe wonder if we’ll ever be free again.
      Many on here might not mind seeking permission from some overlord to live their lives .The habit of submission seems to run deep in the Scottish psyche. That’ll be became are a defeated people.

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      Where are all these experts in public health coming from, that what I want to know? And what are the ethical parameters of their analysis and opinion?

      Dishonest Deed, Clear Conscience: Self-Preservation through Moral Disengagement and Motivated Forgetting

      Abstract
      People routinely engage in dishonest acts without feeling guilty about their behavior. When and why does this occur? Across four studies, people justified their dishonest deeds through moral disengagement and exhibited motivated forgetting of information that might otherwise limit their dishonesty.

      Using hypothetical scenarios (Studies 1 and 2) and real tasks involving the opportunity to cheat (Studies 3 and 4), we find that dishonest behavior increased moral disengagement and motivated forgetting of moral rules. Such changes did not occur in the case of honest behavior or consideration of the behavior of others.

      In addition, increasing moral saliency by having participants read or sign an honor code significantly reduced or eliminated unethical behavior. While dishonest behavior motivated moral leniency and led to strategic forgetting of moral rules, honest behavior motivated moral stringency and diligent recollection of moral rules.

      Keywords:
      dishonesty, ethics, ethics codes, moral disengagement, strategic forgetting, unethical behavior

      https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/dishonest-deed-clear-conscience-self-preservation-through-moral-disengagement-and-motivated-forgetting

    117. Dogbiscuit says:

      Government ministers make policies based on dodgy science and you lot suspend your critical faculties. You’re having the wool pulled over your eyes. You’ll learn when it’s too late.

    118. Dogbiscuit says:

      There has been riots and demonstrations on the streets of USA and UK with no appreciable spike in cases so fucking get a grip of yourselves. The riots have been going on for a month now.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dogbuscuit
      Crack on there, you’re doing a fine job of being a Tory. HMG were criminally negligent to begin with, so lets not try to sweep that under the rug. Especially as they want Scotland to pay for the privilege of having their economy screwed by a clown-shoes PM. 😉

      Sweeping Dishonesty under the
      Rug: How Unethical Actions Lead
      to Forgetting of Moral Rules

      https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10996797/shu%2Cgino_sweeping-dishonesty_JPSP_2012.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    120. jfngw says:

      @bipod

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/data-sweden-failed/

      Looks like your ‘Sweden role model’ is not shared by everyone.

    121. jfngw says:

      Dogbiscuit – complaisant, certainly joke of the day.

    122. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Tories are desperate to privatise the shit out of what is left of the public health systems in Brexitania. They’ve almost done in England, and intend to do so the same to Scotland once we are removed from the EU, against our democratic wishes. That’s not a yoonyawn, that’s a totalitarian despotism.

      Book Reviews
      Health Care And Philosophy: Adding Justice To
      The Debate
      Social Justice: The Moral Foundations of
      Public Health and Health Policy

      https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/pdf/10.1377/hlthaff.26.1.291

    123. Gerry Clark says:

      Mist001 says “Finally, the reason Scotland has lower casualty rates than England is simply down to population! 6 million people in Scotland will obviously produce lower numbers than a country with 60 million people! I bet if it’s boiled down to percentages and statistics, there’ll be near enough parity between Scotland and England.”

      So let’s have a look at that.
      Scotland’s population is approx. 5.4M while England is approx 54M. That’s a handy 10x multiplier which makes the sums easy.

      10 day average daily recorded cases (Scotland, as of today) = 5
      10 day average daily recorded deaths (Scotland, as of today) = 3

      So we would expect the figures in England to be 10x that:
      Cases = 50 Deaths 30

      In actual fact the 10 day averages (England, as of today) are:
      Cases = 236 Deaths = 130

      So we can clearly see that, compared with Scotland, England is doing spectacularly badly.

      All data verifiable from https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    124. jfngw says:

      Calling Jackson Carlaw, calling Jackson Carlaw!

      https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/full-list-of-the-331-tory-mps-who-voted-against-weekly-testing-of-nhs-and-care-staff/25/06/

      I think I spot some Tories in Scotland in the list, bowing to the English PM.

    125. Gary45% says:

      Dogbiscuit, I take it your head is so far up “Impeached” Trumps erse, you are seeing the world through his eyes.
      The world is not even over the first wave.

    126. robertknight says:

      Dugbasket…

      You’re late for your meeting – Flat Earthers been on Bournemouth beach since 9am. Get yet arse down there – quick!

    127. defo says:

      If you were in any doubt about who’s pulling Sir Kier’s strings…

      Yet another reason why Independence can’t wait for a leadership brave enough to go for it.

      I would have liked to see SNP parliamentary privilege being used to call out the obvious corruption involving dirty Desmond & pals.
      Say what you see. Thieves.

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      If this is what ‘ leftist cultural order triumphalism’ looks like , then I’m a leftist cultural order triumphalist, and proud of it. 🙂

      PUBLIC HEALTH ETHICS VOLUME 6 NUMBER 1 2013 1–2
      Meeting the Authors: A Workshop on Social
      Justice in Public Health with Ruth Faden
      and Madison Powers

      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1027.6003&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    129. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis at 3:13 pm

      This in my view is the exact issue with a Regional List Party / Candidate concept.
      SNP won’t have anything to do with it as they will stick with their “Both Votes SNP” mantra and in most Regions get heehaw for not “splitting their votes” aka wasting their votes.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Scottish_Parliament_election

      If YES Groups are dominated by SNP folk that may well follow the SNP line, or remain politically Party neutral, who is left to actually promote and campaign for ISP and the like?
      Why would any potential Candidate stand on an SNP ticket in most of the Regional areas if they actually want to get into Holyrood. I am at the point in thinking that anybody with any real “Indy Fire” in them that is counter to SNP high heid yin view is unlikely to get selected as an SNP candidate anyway.
      If Martin K and other Pro-Indy options stand in Mid Scotland and Fife Regional List then the vote is likely to be split amongst them and thus the concept fails.

    130. Famous15 says:

      In the 1970’s I had an old Polish GP in the South side of Edinburgh.

      His advice in most cases was take an aspirin or gargle with salty water.Oh how we laughed but did follow his advice and survived.

      LATEST .HOLD the FRONT PAGE Research in Scotland to explore whether a saline gargle will reduce the viral load to less harmful levels.

      I also heard that Edinburgh Uni are exploring whether saline with a few drops of Johnston Baby Shampoo sniffed up both nostrils would also attenuate the symptoms.Certainly a lot safer than bleach or disinfectant.

    131. Ottomanboi says:

      “The privacy and dignity of our citizens are being whittled away by sometimes imperceptible steps. Taken individually, each step may be of little consequence. But when viewed as a whole, there begins to emerge a society quite unlike any we have seen — a society in which government may intrude into the secret regions of a person’s life”.

      William Orville Douglas.
      American jurist and politician
      1898-1980

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fortunately public heath is a little more sophisticated nowadays, though the translation of this knowledge into effective adaptation of social behaviour, does not appear to be fairing well in England. I suppose half of them are Tories, so what else can you expect? And the Tory government is crap at communicating ethical messages, as an ethical perspective is not in their general nature, or scope of experience.

      Social-Emotional Learning Should Be Priority During COVID-19 Crisis
      http://neatoday.org/2020/04/15/social-emotional-learning-during-covid/

    133. With all the trouble in Brixton last night I say leave them alone let them party themselves to death I mean they are the ones who tell us BLM yet they put them at risk and when the police try to save them they attack the police aye let them party and all the rest of the party goers over the U.K.

    134. bipod says:

      @Scozzie

      Quarantining a ward in a hospital is quite different from lockidn down an entire. Never in history have we tried quarantining everyone even the healthy. So it would be foolish to assume that just because it works on small scale is a hospital ward where the enviornment is carefully controlled that the same would apply to an entire country.

      Most people live with other people, maybe cooping people up in the same houshold makes it more likely that other people in the household will catch the virus if someone does become infected. For example in New York during the height of their epidemic, much to governor cuomos’ surprise I believe something like 66% of all new hospitalizations were coming from people who had been isolating at home with occassionally going outside.

      @robbo

      Is that really a spike robbo? Could it not be that the government is just looking harder and testing more people now so “spikes” like that will crop up. Has there been any increase in hospitalizations and death rate to match it?

    135. Famous15 says:

      Time to confess,though the saline bit is true I added the Baby Shampoo bit as I know any detergent attacks the lipid outer layer of Covid19.

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      The biscuit appears to be an individual who’s politics are located at the furthest reaches of the libertarian perspective, I can’t be any more polite.

      Public Health Reviews volume 34, Article number: 4 (2012)
      The Place of Solidarity in Public Health Ethics

      https://publichealthreviews.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1007/BF03391656

    137. Clapper57 says:

      R Long Bailey punished by being sacked by SIR Keir Starmer for retweeting article by actress that included comment that could be construed as anti Semitic…..

      Meanwhile Lisa Nandy, while candidate for Labour leadership, was rewarded by being appointed to the shadow cabinet by SIR Keir Starmer irrespective of comments SHE made re “UK should look to Catalonia for lessons on how to defeat Scottish nationalism” leaving the interpretation open as to what she really really meant….and doing it deliberately too….

      Keir does this on the day a huge scandal for a Tory minister starts to grow arms and legs…thus, in sacking Long Bailey, Keir has taken some of the heat off said Tory minister.

      I bet the pro Tory media will love him for doing it deflect deflect….Labour…once again the Tories little helpers….and they are doing it deliberately too….

      Margaret Hodge took time to note THIS is leadership and THE way to rid Labour of antisemitism which she was adamant was rife while Corbyn was leader….this comment was not required by her because many of us would have bet, when Keir was appointed Labour leader, that miraculously Antisemitism would become a NON ISSUE for Labour…

      R Long Bailey’s time within the shadow cabinet in this NEW NEW Labour was always going to be limited appointment…..for sure.

      One wonders who will replace her….not that I care…but do care enough to see the way NEW NEW Labour are operating …and Hell am I so not surprised…..Keir be Tony Blair the 2ND…Yep.

    138. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, that labeling was meant for bipod, though the biscuit does have a similar outlook, IMHO.

      Exploring the Prominence of Ethical Principles and
      Moral Norms in the Areas of Clinical Practice and
      Public Health

      https://www.amhsr.org/articles/exploring-the-prominence-of-ethical-principles-and-moral-norms-in-the-areas-of-clinical-practice-and-public-health.pdf

    139. Dan says:

      Hmm, anyone fancy new electric motor racing tracks for cars and bikes powered by Scottish renewable energy?
      A snip at 5.4million quids handed to Duke of Buccleueh.
      A chance for Greens and non neanderthal petrolheads to unite at last. Greta T’s backers should be all over this…

      https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1276075267262484481

    140. Beaker says:

      @Dogbiscuit says:
      25 June, 2020 at 3:19 pm
      “Norwegian Government recently admitted they could have done without ‘lockdown’.”

      Norway isn’t a major international travel hub – the UK is. Added to that there was not any testing or quarantine in place at the start.

    141. Mist001 says:

      I have to say though since no one else is mentioning it (heads in sand time?) that when I first saw the Mrs. Murrell Nazi styled banner which was displayed opposite Bute House, my very first thought was this site.

      Remember the ‘Twittler Youth’ graphic?

      Honest. That was the very first thing that came to mind.

    142. jfngw says:

      @Must001

      That’s funny because when I saw the banner the first thing I thought of was you. Honest!

    143. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      25 June, 2020 at 6:02 p

      @robbo

      Is that really a spike robbo? Could it not be that the government is just looking harder and testing more people now so “spikes” like that will crop up. Has there been any increase in hospitalizations and death rate to match it?

      ————–

      Yes there has.Many states reporting it in US. Funny old thing its more young people who think there invincible.Not known yet what long term effects of this is.Think its 50 60 thousand past few days. Tests- oh do fuck off, trump talk

      You go with your daft herd immunity theory if you want.Figures are showing not enough, maybe 1/20, 1/30 1/50 with antibodies (not known either if it lasts or how effective).Take bloody 10-20 years at that rate ,you need 2/3 to be herd and even then some will die.

      Black death took 4 or 5 years and funny old thing they reckon it was because infected were quarantined in there homes that made it go away as they say- IT didn’t and still hasn’t, 500 or 600 hundred people died last year from that bacterium ..

      There’s 20 x the world population now too with access to everywhere, not just doon the road. Herd is for the fairies like Trump,Bolsinaro,Johnson AND CUMMINGS.

      Get real !

    144. Beaker says:

      331 Tory MPs voted against the testing of NHS and Care Home staff. This included Jeremy…Hunt (is that the correct pronunciation?).

      Nuff said…

    145. MaggieC says:

      Re Tory housing minister Richard Jenrick , Here’s a short clip from David Linden pulling him up over it .

      https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLinden/status/1275801842161799168

      And here’s a belter from Stv News re Keir Starmer looking to reclaim Labours’s heartlands including Scotland . LOL

      https://mobile.twitter.com/STVNews/status/1276106407490867200

    146. Mist001 says:

      @ jfngw

      As if I’m going to waste money on Mrs. Murrell.

      It’s quite telling though that apart from ‘Auldhundred’, everyone else on here has ignored it. They can’t have missed it because it’s been in all the media today.

      And if you don’t condemn it, you condone it.

      That’s all there is to it.

    147. jfngw says:

      @Mist001

      I don’t know you seem infatuated with her, hardly a day goes by without you mentioning her.

    148. Mist001 says:

      And the banner? Any thoughts on that or is it acceptable to you and everyone else who is silent?

    149. bipod says:

      @jfngw

      Interesting article. I noted that the author recognises that most deaths in sweden have come from the elderly in care homes. You want to know another country that has had even more deaths proportionally, also coming from care homes, and also had a lockdown? Scotland.

      It seems that the differing death rates between countries isn’t a result of lockdown vs no lockdown. The countries that were successful were able to keep it away from the elderly population.

    150. Dogbiscuit says:

      If you lot stopped going to Reddit for your news you would know there was never a case against Trump for impeachment.There is however a case against Joe Biden and his useless son Hunter for corruption.
      Remember Obama and Hellary Clinton are responsible for Syrian war Libya and Christ knows what other atrocities. You people of the so called left seem more bloodthirsty than the average Nazi these days.
      There is an Australian politician in the Labour Party who demands mandatory vaccination for the public and calls anyone who disagrees with him an anti vaxer paints braid strokes with his slur brush . He doesn’t see his own fascism. The trouble with communists is that the share an arsehole with fascism. We witness their unreasonable behaviour on the streets right now.
      We are being set up for compulsory vaccinations like cattle. All of my suspicions have so far been confirmed.
      Pubs and restaurants are being regulated out of use .The experience is to be made so miserable and time regulated that you’ll be told the only way back to a semblance of normality will be vaccination. Those who refuse to be compelled by fiat will be socially ostracised by the usual brainless mob,hello Robbo Gary 45 Effigy etc…, with Government approval fully trumpeted by MSM.

    151. Mist001 says:

      Dogbiscuit gets it.

    152. jfngw says:

      @bipod

      There is no easy way to protect those in care homes unless you lock them away along with the staff, allow no one access. How long do you keep them locked away, without a vaccine that looks likely to be the rest of their lives. Good luck finding volunteers to work in that environment.

      The advice seems to have been the elderly were safer outside hospitals as they were likely to be virus hotspots, that didn’t work out either.

      It is not possible to absolutely compare countries, they all seem to have their own method of measurement. You can’t even make a proper comparison between Scotland and England, there are only two absolutes, tested deaths and excess deaths.

    153. robbo says:

      I don’t think ‘the dug’ got his vaccination from the vet for distemper or rabies .Somebody chuck him a bone wae a tab in it,should do the trick.

      Anti vaxxers can go live in a leper colony as far as i’m concerned.

    154. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist001,

      Don’t think that’s a recommendation at all. He also chases cars.

    155. robbo says:

      Mist001 says:
      25 June, 2020 at 8:01 pm
      Dogbiscuit gets it.

      fecking comedian ,am splitting ma sides-not. Feck aff ya pair o roasters.

    156. Mist001 says:

      @ Bob Mack

      “He also chases cars.”

      And when or IF the dog catches the car, it pisses on it then walks away which is pertinent because…

      Still nobody has mentioned last nights Nazi banner. So, you lot think it’s acceptable?

      And yet, the majority here find it acceptable to moan and whine about Alex Salmonds court case and the so called ‘Alphabet sisters’, yet NONE OF YOU are commenting on the use of Nazi imagery as a political tool.

      You’re coming across as a bunch of losers on whom independence would be wasted.

      Which brings me back to Bob Macks comment. If you lot got independence, you wouldn’t know what to do with it.

      Like I said previously, if you don’t condemn last nights banner, then you condone it.

      And the silence is deafening.

    157. jfngw says:

      @Mist001

      Ah! Just realised what you found offensive about the banner, it didn’t say Herr Murrell, I understand your pain.

    158. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist001,

      I doubt you live in Glasgow. Nazi imagery is commonplace in some sections of the population. You get hardened to it.

    159. Mist001 says:

      So you don’t have anything to say about the banner then?

      You approve of the use of Nazi imagery as a political tool because by not saying anything, that’s what you’re saying.

    160. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist001,

      Surely your asking the wrong people on here. They are usually the recipients of neo Nazi abuse. Try asking those who put it up.

    161. Mike d says:

      Mist001 7.38pm. My thoughts on who’s responsible,Yup, the same people who were ‘guarding’ statues in George square and spraying another statue at bannockburn.

    162. robbo says:

      D Trumps mob sent 1.4billion dollars to a million dead people !
      Lmao

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      We appear to have some right toppers among us, keen to play grubby politics during a national crises. Put most simply, this is because Tory policy is generally incompatible with public health ethics and global health law. This is because Tories are a morally bankrupt and oppose the concepts of equality in law and social justice.

      Public Health Reviews, Vol. 34, No 1
      How to Think about Health Promotion Ethics

      https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03391661.pdf

    164. jfngw says:

      @Mist001

      Beedle dee, dee dee dee
      Two ladies
      Beedle dee, dee dee dee
      Two ladies
      Beedle dee, dee dee dee
      And I’m the only man, Ja!

    165. Mist001 says:

      People here seem to have something to say about everything else, so why the silence and deliberate ignoring of the banner?

      It’s a professionally made banner utilising Nazi imagery aimed at the dear leader, Mrs. Murrell.

      I attract more criticism for calling her Mrs. Murrell than the use of the banner has.

      This shows me that either the people on here don’t have the intellect to confront the banner, or they condone the use of it.

      It’s absolutely shameful but I have to say, not totally surprising.

      Now, as you were. Covid, Alphabet sisters, Salmond because that’s all you’re fit for, fucking gossip.

      You’re certainly not fit for independence.

    166. robbo says:

      Did anyone see the new paint job on the RAF aircraft for president Johnson?
      We got a tail fin and part of the undercarriage at the back for a million bucks. I wonder what private firm did that cos RAF wouldn’t have charged half that if their painters did it- fact.

    167. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist001,

      I’ll put out a tweet to cancel Indy. Folk will want to know sooner rather than later.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mist001
      I think most folk here consider you to be more than a bit dodgy, so tend to skip your posts. Tough titty, but that’s what you get for being a nihilistic dick.

    169. jfngw says:

      @Robbo

      Yes, I think they’ve called called it Arse Force One. If it was one of Cummings mates companies expect the paint to start peeling before the month is out. Although I think Johnson has probably described it as ‘A world beating paint job’.

    170. Bob Mack says:

      @Robbo,

      Apparently Mist001 knows “professional” printers who might have done it for free, in the spirit of Rule Brittania and all that goes with it.

    171. Robertknight says:

      Robo @ 8:48

      BRIT FARCE ONE

    172. Bob Mack says:

      Can anybody vouch for the whereabouts of Joanna Cherry when the banner was put up?I

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the poster. It needs to be investigated by the police, IMHO, as it constitutes a hate act.

      Ensuring justice for
      hate crime victims:
      professional perspectives

      https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2016-justice-hate_crime-victims_en.pdf

    174. jfngw says:

      @Bob Mack

      You could be close, after all a unionist would used Herr Krankie.

    175. Effijy says:

      There must be substantial CCTV systems at and around Bute House.

      This banner is a criminal act and prosecutions must follow.

    176. robbo says:

      Aberdeen beach b4 lunch. Contrast that with Bournemouth today.
      I see trouble ahead Englandshire.

      https://twitter.com/ScottishThink/status/1276163394467516419

    177. JaMuR says:

      Mist001

      Thanks for the updated moody profile picture as requested.

      Are you doing a shite in the picture ?

    178. robbo says:

      JaMuR

      Lmao

    179. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t believe me that the Tories are ideologically opposed to the principle of equality in law, so present a real danger to public health? Did you perhaps miss austerity, a.k.a. the nationalisation of private risk and the ideological persecution of the vulnerable?

      Mapping the Issues: Public Health, Law and Ethics in
      PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND ETHICS: A READER

      https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=facpub

    180. CameronB Brodie says:

      British nationalism is blind to the human rights of those living in Scotland, so British nationalism presents a real and present danger to public health in Scotland. So we must have a chance to vote our way out of Dodge, before Brexit removes Scotland further from the protective force of international law.

      We need an opportunity to politically avoid a state of authoritarian totalitarianism, as is our right under international human rights law. Though Westminster tends to ignore international law, if it can get away with it.

      Human Rights and Ethics in Public Health
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1751819/

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      You’re backsliding.

      I’m telling you that as a friend.

      Because that’s what friends are for.

      😉

    182. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Sorry, am I over-doing things again? I’m not trying to break the flow, I’m just terrified of living in Brexitania, removed from the EU by xenophobic populist nationalism.

    183. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Please don’t be offended.

      It’s a ratio thing.

      Just pointing it out, that’s all.

      Hoots!

      😉

    184. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      None taken mate, it’s appreciated. I know I’m posting a lot, but it’s hard not to fight for my survival. 😉

    185. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ian B

      My vote would be 1 per article from CBB. Can’t imagine why he thinks the constant cut and paste is appropriate. Stu is very….tolerant…

    186. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Do you not imagine some may appreciate the educational opportunity I’m offering?

    187. Bob Mack says:

      @CBB,

      As Oscar Wilde sais. “You can never be over dressed or over educated*.

    188. Bob Mack says:

      “Said”

    189. Andy Ellis says:

      @CBB

      Do you not imagine the majority find it irritating beyond belief? From comments I’ve seen I’m not alone feeling it’s far too frequent, annoying and pointless. Google is their friend. This isn’t the right place IMO. Your tsunami of posts simply serve to break up threads.

      I feel pretty sure most totally bypass them. They’re making BTL comments a place I visit less frequently.

    190. Effijy says:

      Labour MP Jess Phillips in Question Time just said
      The we all need to trust the Government during this crisis?

      She was left wing but she seems to be full blown red Tory.

    191. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      I have a set of relevant skill and I’m trained to pass them on to those who lack my training. This is how social emancipation works, supported through education in the community.

      Have you never witnessed or taken part in consciousness raising?

      Consciousness Raising
      https://commonslibrary.org/consciousness-raising/

    192. robertknight says:

      If anyone sees BawJaws’ new toy, aka Brit Farce One, at an airport near them, can you get me a ’99, a vanilla
      slider, 20 Regal King Size and a bottle of Tizer. Cheers!

      £900,000 for a frigging ice cream van with wings! FFS!

      I bet the Duchess of Edinburgh can’t wait to arrive somewhere in it. What say you Betty? Looking forward to it? Aye right!

    193. robbo says:

      Andy Ellis

      That’s you telt lol

    194. Bob Mack says:

      Poor you Cameron. Everybody wants to live in a free Independent Scotland which they want set free by the rule of law. Yet, whenever you tell them what the law is and what are the legal rights a citizen of Scotland should expect, you become a bore who is telling them what they should be entitled to .

      They don’t care about that apparently.

    195. robbo says:

      robertknight

      Back in the day I kent a few p&d’s that wid huv done that job for a few hunner quid a a couple of cases of beer.As long as you bought the paint.No way that’s a 900k job. Must have got rid of a lot of painters in RAF over years,no shocks

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bob Mack
      It’s a tough one. I’m screaming inside, as I’ve got this stuff coming out my ears but I know it isn’t for everyone. Argh! 😉

      Public Health Ethics and Covid-19
      The ethical dimensions of public health decision-making during a pandemic

      Context
      The Covid-19 pandemic forces policy makers and public health authorities to make ethically challenging decisions, often under conditions of uncertainty and under time pressure. In times of pandemics, ethical accountability is more important, not less. Understanding and handling of ethical problems require grounding in ethical theory and decision models, in combination with relevant facts from medicine, public health, law, economics, politics, etc. The perspective of public health ethics includes considerations from all ethical domains of relevance in a pandemic situation (1) .

      https://www.public-health-covid19.de/images/2020/Ergebnisse/Policy_Brief_Pandemic_Ethics_GeneralF.pdf

    197. Ayeright says:

      Dogbiscuit is a Yank. I’m sure I spelt that right.

    198. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Mist001

      Was It a real banner or something cobbled together for a photo opportunity? … FFS are we supposed to take a couple of lines of “Allo Allo” German seriously?

      Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler?

    199. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Mist001

      There I have found the thing.

      Gott im Himmel … It’s hardly a portrait of The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobys!

      or is that what you see when you look at it?

    200. Joe says:

      @liz g

      Responded to you in another thread. Cheers

    201. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack –

      On the previous thread you seemed quite sanguine about revealing yourself as a JFK assassination ‘lone gunman’ supporter.

      That places you in a vanishingly toty number of conspiracy theorists who cling to the Warren Commission Report as some form of sacred text.

      It was, and remains, a cynical, amateurish, sloppy farrago masquerading as historical record – if you are really so uninformed or wilfully ignorant that you believe it, fair enough, but if that belief reflects the quality of your cognitive skills generally then no-one here, least of all Cameron, should give any credence to your opinion on anything.

    202. Joe says:

      Ive got some advice – dangerous authoritarians never simply assume authority over you. Theres always a problem that you need to be helped with for your own good for which they can assume a ‘temporary’ measure of greater control. Do we believe that the days of people trying to assume more power than amyone should have are over? It will never happen again?

    203. Joe says:

      Anybody in the real world knows the answer. So what could such an attempt at power grab look like? Gunmen on the street? A sweeping grab of wealth? No, it would be achieved one ‘problem’ and one ‘solution’ at a time. Each step taking more power and giving back less. The only remedy to this is an alert public who can think critically and value their liberty enough to inform themselves

    204. Joe says:

      In fact an aware, informed, questioning and critical thinking public are a would-be tyrants worst nightmare. Thats why, as was looked at in a previous article, the decentralisation of communications has been a massive problem for them. But it doesnt matter if you dont use it. Free thinkers are much, much more dangerous to those who seek power than anything else.

    205. Ayeright says:

      I’m looking for information on Scottish Independence but seem to have come to the wrong place. Is this the Twilight Zone?

    206. Joe says:

      It DOESNT matter if you go down a line of thinking or questioning and you are wrong. It doesnt matter if you question a government or corporate narrative and it wasnt justified. Its the QUESTIONING and the critical thinking that counts. The people who pretend you are weird for doing so are the types who open the door to catastrophe by being passive, inert, submissive fools

    207. Joe says:

      One last thing ill say is that the average empathic human is totally unprepared to deal with a proper manipulative psychopath. Im not talking axe murderers, just a psychpathic personality. The reason is we naturally cannot comprehend the motives, thinking, morality or lack of feeling that is totally alien to us. Psychopaths however are the most perfectly suited at gaining positions of power

    208. Ayeright says:

      Joe you don’t half talk a load of pish. But hey some like it.

    209. Joe says:

      In personal situations the normal person always comes off worst in any relationship with such a person because they cant bring themselves to understand what they are dealing with soon enough. The excuses are made til the damage is done. This also plays out at a societal level. Its happening right now and people are struggling to face up to it.

    210. Beaker says:

      @CameronB Brodie says:
      25 June, 2020 at 8:42 pm
      “Tory policy is generally incompatible with public health ethics and global health law.”

      Can I make one wee correction:
      Tory policy is generally incompatible with ethics.

      Re the aircraft paint job, the RAF are not happy, because it basically reduces the available fleet as the camouflage has now been removed.

      Bournemouth beach looked good… for spreading the fucking virus. Been there on holiday a couple of times, not bad but nothing beats Chesil Beach further along the coast.

    211. Ayeright says:

      It’s worse than I thought, you don’t just talk pish but also have a bad case of verbal diarrhea. Self isolate for 14 days.

    212. robbo says:

      Look z?zzzz joe, a squirrel . You see it?

    213. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I’m only commenting as my name was mentioned, but was not possibly a bit harsh on Bob? I try not to judge someone else’s judgement, solely on one issue. Nobody knows it all, so I look for narrative threads to point to someone’s social psychology.

      SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY OF IDENTITIES

      Abstract
      In this chapter I review the social psychological underpinnings of identity, emphasizing social cognitive and symbolic interactionist perspectives and research, and I turn then to key themes of current work on identity – social psychological, sociological, and interdisciplinary.

      I emphasize the social bases of identity, particularly identities based on ethnicity, race, sexuality, gender, class, age, and (dis)ability, both separately and as they intersect. I also take up identities based on space, both geographic and virtual. I discuss struggles over identities, organized by social inequalities, nationalisms, and social movements.

      I conclude by discussing postmodernist conceptions of identities as fluid, multidimensional, personalized social constructions that reflect sociohistorical contexts, approaches remarkably consistent with recent empirical social
      psychological research, and I argue explicitly for a politicized social psychology of identities that brings together the structures of everyday lives and the sociocultural realities in which those lives are lived.

      Key Words
      social construction of identity, language, intersections of identities, social cognition, symbolic interaction

      http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/teaching/courses/2009-08UVM-300/docs/others/2000/howard2000a.pdf

    214. CameronB Brodie says:

      Beaker
      You’re right, and I can prove it through cognitive biology, and comparative cognition and stuff. 🙂

    215. Liz g says:

      Ayeright @ 12.54
      Jist ask a question,he’ll run away,tellin ye (days later)yer no intelligent enough tae warrant an answer…like we all can’t see he doesn’t have one. 🙂

    216. Joe says:

      @Liz g

      Sorry liz, I cant keep up with you. You win

      @Ayeright
      She’s right. You’ll waste your time. I wont waste mine though

    217. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      Are you still hostile towards post-modern critical social theory? 🙂

      Reason, aesthetics & emancipation: Questions of identity and Representation in Critical Theory
      https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/19165/2/02whole.pdf

    218. Col.Blimp IV says:

      call me dave

      I don’t have an online subscription, so I’ll have to wait till tomorrow to read the article but the Headline – Police Probe After “Herr Sturgeon” message Appears in Capital. – Jesus suffering Christ are they going to unleash the “Salmond Team”?

      I saw some of the comments on the National’s Facebook page and there are hyper-woke nutters aplenty … many who would sooner it was the Tonton Makout.

    219. Joe says:

      @CBB

      Yes I am. As anyone who values our civilisation should be. It was developed by mainly Jewish marxist academics as a means to undermine Western civilisation when they realised the working class werent going to do it for them. So they had to get a little more advanced.

    220. Joe says:

      In fact since there are a few decent old fashioned leftists here – if you are wondering what the fuck happened to your side of the argument you have your answer.

    221. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      I don’t know who has been filling your head with mince, but I think you should possibly be brought to the attention of your local constabulary. You’re venturing into Nazi ideology there.

      White Men Can’t Jump:
      Critical Epistemologies, Embodiment,
      and the Praxis of Legal Scholarship

      https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1094&context=yjlf

    222. Joe says:

      @CBB

      And thats why our conversations are so short – you have nothing except labels.

      I forgive you though, Cameron.

      Keep posting the links – some really do prove my point.

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      Seriously Joe, I thought I’d sussed you a long time ago, I just didn’t imagine you were an actual Nazi. But you’ve pretty much described the Frankfurt School in exactly the same way as the Nazis did. Whatever, thanks for confirming you are a total zoomer.

      ———–

      One for the more rationally minded. Full text.

      The Oxford Handbook of Diversity in Organizations
      Theories of Difference, Diversity, and Intersectionality: What Do They Bring to Diversity Management?

      Abstract and Keywords
      This chapter addresses theories of difference, diversity, and intersectionality, and what they bring to understandings of diversity management. The chapter begins by examining the broad arenas of difference, diversity, and diversity management, as they have become established in organization and management studies.

      It continues by considering the increasing complexity that can be engaged with through the notion of intersectionality, and how such a broad view of different kinds of intersectionalities widens further understandings of diversity/ies and diversity management in organizations and management.

      These various formulations include external intersectionalities (formation, location, and form of organizations), internal intersectionalities (internal structuring and processes of organizations), and diversity and diversity management seen within intersectional contexts.

      Keywords:
      difference, diversity, intersectionality, theory, diversity management

      https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199679805.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199679805-e-28

    224. defo says:

      Is this a foie gras sort of sharing?
      Intersectionality! FFS

    225. Dan says:

      Joe produced a series of posts relating to a society being taken towards authoritarian control, the personality types that rise to take power, and the difficulty in ordinary people being unable to deal with these circumstances.

      Reading them just made me think, aye, t’would be really handy if we could directly elect oor oan Government so we’d be in a better position to tackle these issues, instead of being tied to and outvoted by a larger neighbour that appears happy to be run by the psychopaths he describes.

    226. Gary45% says:

      Dan@8.50
      Nicely put, there are many who accept the control he refers to and are happy, because its “their” masters doing the controlling.

    227. Capella says:

      Democratic decision making is the antidote to power hungry psychopaths IMO. Real democracy. Not the pretendy kind we have atm.

    228. Andy Ellis says:

      @CBB 11.07pm

      You’re the pub bore of WoS. The fact that you are full of knowledge which you are desperate to impart doesn’t mean that the rest of us are obliged to agree or even read your output. I suspect very few actually do.

      If I was looking to have my consciousness raised, it certainly wouldn’t be by a pompous buffoon like you, nor would I expect to start in the BTL comments section of Scottish politics blog.

    229. MightyS says:

      As we are twisting hopelessly on WM’s rope – anyone read Jason Michael’s piece on playing WM at its own game? Scots are going to be ‘othered’ by England’s disenfranchised poor after Brexit anyway – we may as well accelerate the process.
      Thoughts?
      https://randompublicjournal.com/2020/06/26/smash-england/

    230. Breeks says:

      Doing the rounds, I came across this on Wee Ginger Dug….

      “… By refusing even to consider any sort of dedicated plan to help the recovery of the Scottish economy, Boris Johnson has just given the yes movement another powerful argument….“

      I’m not meaning to criticise WGD, but after Scotland’s craven capitulation over Brexit, when Scotland held every card needed for victory but caved in before it was even asked to get back on it’s knees, then frankly, arguments that “Westminster is holding back Scotland” are just lame, and leading us nowhere. It’s just “words”. …The whole arsenal of black powder is damp. It’s no good.

      We must move the whole issue of Scottish Independence onto a much higher plane than this interminable pettiness and banality.

      We are forced out of Europe by colonial subjugation, yet we find the time to argue about GRA reform.

      Our economy is about to be savaged by deregulation which will destroy much of it, yet greater priority is given to whether hate speech is thought crime.

      Our Sovereign Constitution is being supplanted, and replaced with an IKEA instruction booklet for a devolved assembly, and yet we’re not doing anything about it until Alex Salmond has finished his book.

      We have a deadly COVID pandemic to survive… Yeah, let’s put Scottish Independence on hold, but only Independence. We’ll obviously keep the important stuff ticking over….

      It is all of it, every word of it, too little, too late. Scotland, Mark my words… we can try for a 1000 years, yet we will NEVER recreate a more perfect set of circumstances to escape this dreadful curse of a Union than the circumstances which have prevailed since the Brexit result, and yet here we are, watching the opportunity shrink and disappear in the rear view mirror. The candle which burns for an Independent Scotland in Europe will be snuffed out in December, and our “Great Escape” Plan is scheduled for 2021… I… I… Really? REALLY?? What kind of plan is that?

      On 24th June 2016, Scotland was living the tale of Aladdin.. someone had said “Open Sesame!” and we stood in a great open door looking at all treasures of Independent Nationhood. All we had to do was step forward into the light. We were there!!!

      But we didn’t. We dithered. We dawdled. We said, “No, this is too good to be true”. And led by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, we have spent the last 4 years backing away from the light until it now looks like a dot on the horizon.

      But we can still see the light. We can see it’s still there… for now. But we MUST change our leadership, we must change the direction they’re leading us. We must turn ourselves around and start running towards the light rather than away from it.

      Get rid of this current leadership Scotland. They are death to us and death to a free Scotland.

      Scotland MUST declare a Constitutional Backstop; that Brexit is unlawful colonial subjugation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Democracy, and we must then present Westminster with the binary ultimatum … Respect Scotland has a sovereign veto on Brexit, or accept that Brexit is the act of subjugation which destroys the Union of the UK.

      My friends, that ultimatum and backstop will fly us back to that threshold of light and freedom in an instant more magical than anything Aladdin can do just by rubbing his lamp.

    231. Ottomanboi says:

      The softpower tyranny of English.
      https://psmag.com/news/how-english-creates-a-new-caste-system-in-india
      And…
      https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-tell-an-upper-class-Scottish-person-from-a-lower-class-Scottish-person?share=1
      The English conquerors not only institutionalized class they politicized caste.
      A bheil gàidhlig agaibh? Only to the servants chum!

    232. MELBOURNE:

      `Health workers fanned out across suburbs of Melbourne Friday in a testing blitz aimed at choking off a surge in coronavirus cases in Australia’s second-biggest city.

      Officials reported another 30 new COVID-19 infections in the city overnight in a continuing outbreak that has raised fears of a second wave in Australia,

      which looked like it had successfully contained the epidemic.`

    233. Dan says:

      @MightyS

      Looks like Jason’s suggesting we go for Alf Garnett Consequentials! 😉

    234. frogesque says:

      Two new Independence parties launched for contesting the Regional Lists at Holyrood.

      And here we are having a slagging match and dancing on the head of a pin.

      Wingers, FFS get your shit together!

    235. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      I’m pretty sure Cameron will make his mind up whether to listen either to
      1. Someone who can appreciate his information. Or
      2. Someone who constantly tel!s him to shut up.

      Which would an imbecile like yourself choose?

    236. Dogbiscuit says:

      Funny how the economy is being deregulated but we the public are to be micro managed and regulated as prisoners in an open prison.

    237. mike cassidy says:

      Parklife USA

      A Devastating New Stage of the Pandemic
      The U.S. has seen more cases in the past week than in any week since the pandemic began.

      http://archive.is/Edfvl

    238. Dogbiscuit says:

      Surgical gimp mask to depersonalise. Marching through Tesco like a West Point officer cadet. Seeking state approval to go to the pub. Be socially ostracised for breaking the holy ‘rules’ My God.I didn’t realise how much I despise rule takers crawlers and yes men until I witnessed the collapse of morale on here.
      Why do you uncritically accept what mainstream news media tell you about covid 19?
      Remember when ‘lockdown’ was about flattening the curve’ .Like junkies the Governments keep making bogus excuses for extending the ‘lockdown’. People cannot reasonably be locked up under House Arrest for ever.
      I notice covid isn’t a problem when State approved BLM and Antifa ‘demonstrate’ but a trip to the beach is an ‘incident’
      Can you not see how the media is working your emotions ?
      It is laughable in the light of the knowledge gained over three months that there are still so many of you in your holes. On Porty beach you can dig a better hole.
      Fresh air and sunlight is good for you unless you come from Wick.

    239. Bob Mack says:

      @Dogbiscuit,

      Then you go to Portobllo beach and dig a hole. Next,put yourself in it and then cover.

    240. robbo says:

      The dug

      You could always go to US and make a cuppa for Donald.I’m sure he’s pretty parched.

      https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1276113155010289664/photo/1

    241. Dogbiscuit says:

      There’s too many idiots here still running on propaganda .
      Ayeright popping up like an involuntary erection during Mass. You need somewhat adjusting.

    242. Beaker says:

      @Dogbiscuit says:
      26 June, 2020 at 9:57 am
      “Surgical gimp mask to depersonalise. Marching through Tesco like a West Point officer cadet.”

      You haven’t got a fucking clue, have you? The masks don’t depersonalise: they help protect infection spread. They’re not foolproof but they reduce the risk. And who the fuck is marching through Tesco’s? Perhaps there is a queue, so fucking what? I live in Rutherglen, and in Main Street people are quite happy to wait their turn outside the shops. They don’t feel like they are under siege, in fact one of the positives of the lockdown is that people are talking to one another.

    243. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack –

      FFS, you can’t even insult someone without making an arse of it –
      an ‘imbecile’ is an adult with a mental age of about five. I’m no Einstein but I’m not that bad.

      And please spare us the pish about being grateful to Cameron for the links – when was the last time you read one?

    244. Dogbiscuit says:

      The usual weirdos showing themselves as playground bullies instead of addressing any political points I make.
      You do realise the economy is being ruined? No ?
      The media keeps you frightened with ‘second wave’ fear porn. It’s sad to witness the Scots arses collapsing. Second wave hasn’t happened anywhere that has been opened up and cases of covid being picked up is due to increased testing. Most people with the virus are untroubled by it .
      You focus with intense scrutiny on a few cases to satisfy your masochistic desires.

    245. Dogbiscuit says:

      Beaker feels like a radge in a gimp mask . That’ll explain the venom of your attacks. You are a radge in a gimp mask.

    246. Effijy says:

      I’d like to find a bookmaker who would give odds on a major
      Covid spike for England.

      The scenes from Bournemouth Beech and from outside Annfield Liverpool yesterday
      Show the extent of the credit given to any distancing rules given by Boris.

      If it’s good enough for Cummings then they are having it too.

      Just going to the seaside to test my eyes officer.
      Just going to see if I can see the League Cup.

      Ye Shall reap what you sow!

    247. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      You are to be lauded for having a neck of solid brass. You constantly tell Cameron to shut up either directly of by manipulation.

      I actually do read some (my emphasis) of his links.

      More importantly I allow him the freedom to speak because that is his right. He probably pays for that right as you do.

      Please tel! me your not the type who only wants to hear what you believe to be true . There’s a name for that and it fits you exactly.

    248. Dogbiscuit says:

      You like call dissenters Tories but you lot are fully lined up behind Tory ‘lockdown’ policies. Admit Bob Smack and co. you made a mistake swallowing media bullshit. HaHaHaHa. Get it all the way up you fools.

    249. Bill McLean says:

      Catch yourselves on as they say in Nornirlnd – this is getting like the playground. Why have ideas and opinions been overwhelmed by personal attacks? I know why it’s being done, but am surprised at people, whose opinions I have come to respect at least, responding, There’s room at the table for all. Ignore the trolls!

    250. Bob Mack says:

      @Dogbiscuit,

      Fetch_____(_throws stick off cluff)

    251. ahundredthidiot says:

      This whole coronavirus thing.

      Does anyone not feel that feeling you cant quite pin down?….am I being scammed?, is something bigger going on?, shutting down the world economy doesn’t make any sense, on any level – it was never a virus of pandemic proportions and most of us knew that by the end of March, but it all went ahead anyway – almost as if the whole mapped out journey was planned.

      It reminds me of that great magic trick. While everyone was watching the twin towers, the 3rd World Trade Centre was being ‘pulled’ – clearly a controlled demolition job and incidentally the first to be cleaned up and not even mentioned in the 9/11 commission report.

      To this day, the vast majority of people have no idea that 3 WTC buildings fell that day……a-tissue a-tissue, we all fall down.

    252. Dogbiscuit says:

      The Soviet Republic of Rutherglen . You justify the Government’s oppression of you.
      Cadogan Enright posted e few weeks ago ‘divide and conquer’. Of course he is right.
      It’s difficult if not impossible to maintain discipline if the leadership is non existent.
      The SNP has left an army in the field for so long that it’s natural for discipline to break down into arguments .Theres no leadership .Its not your fault .Its the fault of politicians.
      Our politicians appear to be working for a supranational power. You all know it by now .
      Events push Independence further out of reach.
      The most important thing for the SNP right now is holding the political advantage over the public.
      Anti social distancing is based on poor science. The ‘science ‘ of political consensus which is not science.
      Parliament has no intelligent opposition.

    253. Bob Mack says:

      @ahundredtheidiot,

      You and Ian Brotherhood should form a Conspiracy club.

      You could present a Conspiracy theory every Friday night to a selected audience of the like minded.

    254. defo says:

      So disrespectful, arrogant, ego driven filling of EVERY post with dozens of obscure texts, which may or may not have a tenuous link to the topic is fine then Bob?

      This is WoS, not fruit cake daily.

    255. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Smack you and your ilk are advancing the cause of evil politicians who keep you under house arrest to stop you from marching for Independence. You are staring at a brick wall with no clue how to proceed.

    256. Dogbiscuit says:

      You silly old buggers.

    257. Bob Mack says:

      @Defo,

      He is not allowed to post then, because YOU can’t be bothered reading the links he thinks are relevant?

      Form a lynch mob quick.

      Cameron your about to be hung for posting your point of view and daring to back it up with articles from academia. How dare you. If only you had just murdered someone instead.

    258. Bob Mack says:

      @Doggy paddle,

      So?

    259. jfngw says:

      @defo

      So you take the high ground by making a slur on someone’s mental health. Classy.

    260. Dogbiscuit says:

      The term ‘conspiracy theory ‘ was reportedly made up by the CIA in order to malign anyone who asked too many questions.
      Bob Smack doesn’t like questions .You dogs are turning on your own.

    261. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Smack comfortable numbnut.

    262. defo says:

      What time do you start on the sauce Bob?

      Nobody’s going to get pissed off by someone with a special interest sharing relevant material now and then.
      That would be a good thing.

    263. Dogbiscuit says:

      No no no Cameron should be hanged , not hung , for wearing trainers with slacks.?

    264. Capella says:

      I sometimes read CBBs links. In fact, there are very few posts btl that I do read now. Most seem to be trolls, responses to trolls, ad hominem nit-picking attacks on…wait for it…INDEPENDENCE supporters, and other pointless uninformative and not-tending-to-independence drivel. IMHO 🙂

    265. Dogbiscuit says:

      Creases ironed down the front of jeans is also a capital offence .
      Baseball caps are evil .If your warring one now I hope you suffer.
      Chairman Mao suits should receive a stiff penalty also.

    266. defo says:

      jfngw
      It’s not a slur, it’s true.

      Many of us have difficulties too, but choose not to broadcast that looking for sympathy and mitigation.

    267. Dogbiscuit says:

      Everyone should wear a nice beret like Frank Spencer .

    268. Ron Maclean says:

      @Breeks 9:25am

      ‘We must move the whole issue of Scottish Independence onto a much higher plane than this interminable pettiness and banality.’

      You’d obviously been reading the comments on this thread before they deteriorated.

      The quest for independence seems to have stalled.

    269. Dogbiscuit says:

      Capella do you really believe the fact that you have no civic rights or freedoms is unimportant?
      The fact that we are locked up with no release date .That means nothing to you?

    270. Bob Mack says:

      If backing up your opinion by quoting academia and journals is now outlawed we can forthwith close Glasgow,Edinburgh and St Andrews Universities among others.

    271. defo says:

      Define Straw man ^

    272. Capella says:

      The comment rules are here.
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/

      You have to scroll down so I’ve pasted this one:

      2. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).

      And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally. And that includes calling them “trolls” or implying they’re undercover Unionists. We’ll decide if someone’s trolling or not. But in the meantime, if you think they are, ignore them.

      If you know what a “troll” is, then you’ll also know that getting you angry and talking about them, derailing the conversation off the subject, is exactly what they want.

      Email us about suspected trolls if you want. But don’t engage them in debate if you doubt their motives, and DEFINITELY don’t engage in on-thread discussions about whether they’re a troll or not.

    273. Dogbiscuit says:

      The thread goes to shit because some posters go into attack mode when they read something they disagree with. Instead of getting on board with the spirit of enquiry they want to keep their wee game going for as long as possible. I can understand that but right now the power our politicians have granted themselves is unprecedented and you don’t want to know.
      This covid crises has exposed some on here as no more than political hacks shilling for the party that no longer believes in Independence.

    274. J Galt says:

      Dogbiscuit you are wasting your breath with the Lockdown enthusiasts – it’s their “thing” and they don’t want to let go.

      “How they learned to keep worrying and love the Coronavirus” to paraphrase Stanley Kubrick – a master of illusion if ever there was one.

      And they (the enthusiasts) are in the majority – which brings to mind Mark Twain’s “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect”!

      Well when the emergency budgets start and Scotland’s spending arrangements of the last few years begin to look like a mad spending spree compared to what’s coming perhaps they’ll “pause and reflect”!

    275. Dogbiscuit says:

      To all lurkers hope you have your thinking caps on and I hope you enjoyed the beech yesterday.
      Is it true Nicola Sturgeon wants anti personnel mines laid on Portobello beach?

    276. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack –

      This exchange is annoying others so this is my last comment on it all…

      Cameron isn’t well. By his own admission. He’s been asked, repeatedly, by folk who know him, have met him, and like him, to tone it down. Even Rev gave him a warning, not so long ago that you can’t remember.

      If you think this is some kind of a perverted parlour game, fair enough, but that doesn’t mean others have to indulge you or your ilk, wrecking every thread with personal attacks and reactionary pish.

      This place, and the Yes/indy movement generally, is approaching a series of potentially defining processes: the inquiry into the ‘stitch-up’ of Alex Salmond; the publication of his book; the continuing entryism of TRA activists into positions of influence within the SNP/SG; the Holyrood elections next year.

      All of these things are connected in ways that *none* of us can discern with any certainty. But one thing’s for sure – the ‘authorities’ have made it plain that they intend to silence Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray, Alex Salmond. They’ve already managed to shut down every Twitter account Rev had. They’ll probably try to shut down @FOWingsScot at the first opportunity. And they’ll be gunning for this blog, more than ever.

      So my point, Bob, is this – you are entitled to your opinions on everything under the sun, including my IQ, Cameron’s links and heaven knows whatever else, but unless you are prepared to get your head around the existential threat to this movement and show at least some willingness to help this place get fit for what’s coming, you’re really not helping anyone. Same goes for me. If all of our efforts aren’t focused on exposing and challenging what Alex Salmond called the ‘powerful forces against us’ then this movement cannot and will not survive.

    277. Dogbiscuit says:

      J Galt they are defending an irrational position.

    278. Dogbiscuit says:

      Capella so you would rather close down dissent . Not unlike the media .

    279. Famous15 says:

      Dogwhistle I cannot hear you.

      Tell me who is in your team?

      Gwone gwone gwone. I won’t tell,honest.

      Please please please who is really in your squad at the old 77th?

      Is Ad Hominem one of youse lads?

    280. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      The movement will certainly not survive if you are condescending to people like Cameron with his personal challenges. That is not just unacceptable. It is crass in the extreme. Goodbye.

    281. defo says:

      Personal challenges, played out daily on the most powerful blog Yes has Bob?

      Enough already from me too, all this does is feed the attention seeking which lies behind it all.

    282. Dogbiscuit says:

      Famous 15 It’s a section not a ‘squad’ .
      Are you really that paranoid?Bob Smack so the ‘movement’ depends on not condescending Cameron?
      I think Cameron can dish it out as well as anyone .

    283. Dr Jim says:

      If a person is unlucky and has an accident or gets very sick and must go to hospital that person never questions the doctors medical opinion or judgement when they say you might need an operation or you might need to stay in hosptial a bit longer so we can be sure of a good recovery from whatever ails you

      In Scotland right now we have the best and biggest collection of doctors scientists and experts from all disciplines telling us we shouldn’t behave in certain ways because it’s bad for our health and could kill us and those findings are reported to us by the elected First Minister of the country and the Health Secretary and the Chief Medical officer and the Chief Nursing officer and even the Chief of Police

      But here we have on this blog arseholes who troll for the sake of trolling who don’t like the political leader of the country spewing shite out of their ridiculously stupid mouths on a subject in which they have no knowledge because they want to demonstrate an infantile opinion on a particular political view they hold that chimes with the author of the blog

      If you want to understand why this blog and its author may be under threat of removal from the Internet permanently, allowing and behaving like this is why

    284. Dogbiscuit says:

      Famous 15 what is Nicola Sturgeons plan for Independence?

    285. Bob Mack says:

      Defo wants everybody who has personal challenges to stop posting. You have become a nuisance. Only those with total function should now be welcomed.

      Now what piece of Academia deals with mental function and how to judge it ?

      ICD10. Help yourselves.

    286. Dogbiscuit says:

      Dr Jim you appeal to authority. There are other experts scientists doctors who disagree with Government covid policies but you won’t hear a whisper from them in the mainstream media and you know why.
      By the way do you regret getting your Nicola Sturgeon tatoo ?

    287. Bob Mack says:

      If course you could always use Mein Kampf,but that’s less diagnostic and more solution orientated. Perhaps you already have a copy?

    288. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Who are you outside you imagination? Jog on or do better.

    289. defo says:

      Straw man again Bob.

      Cider?
      Stretches the giro.

    290. Ron Maclean says:

      @Breeks made what I view as an important post at 9:25am. I expected it to attract interest from several regular posters on this site. It didn’t. I suspect because they didn’t want to be associated with the drivel posted before and after 0925. I have occasionally tried to defend the quality of the contributions made by most of the current posters on the site. It looks as if I was wrong and the golden days are well past.

      If that’s true then independence really is a dream.

    291. Breastplate says:

      Agreed IB,
      Much more important events on the horizon to concentrate on and certainly much more important than personal one-upmanship that is really quite tedious.

    292. Pete says:

      At the start,most of us were quite happy to go along with the loss of our liberty on the basis that we were helping the NHS get into a fit state to look after the supposed huge amount of patients who would be arriving in their droves.
      Fortunately, that didn’t happen and we now have 18 patients in ICU in the whole of Scotland.
      This is now a political problem and we need leaders to weigh up the trashing of the economy against the heath risks.
      In my and I think many folks opinion.it is a no brainer.
      We must get back to normality as the number of redundancies announced increase daily with the resultant economic, social and health consequences therefrom bringing misery and poverty down the line.
      The number of cases increase worldwide mainly because of the increase in testing but surprisingly the number of deaths are falling.
      Just read a scientific report from Italy which suggests that the virus is becoming less virulent and much less deadly and hence the reduction in deaths as a proportion of cases.
      If you look at the US the number of confirmed cases is enormous yet the deaths are relatively low.
      It is just so sad that our leaders, especially here in Scotland are so timid and lacking in qualities that our country is now facing a long period of stagnation and poverty.

    293. Bob Mack says:

      @Breastplate,

      Independence would be meaningless if people like you and Ian Brotherhood had any authority. Just another England with a kilt.

    294. schrodingers cat says:

      exasperation on slow progress to indy, understandable. however, since the euref, nothing has actually been decided, nothing has happened.Im not sure if this cut off date of 31st june will be a red line, it looks like the eu will continue to negotiate up until the 31st of dec.

      we lost in 2014, mores the pity, so we have to accept that the game we are in, isnt solitaire, there are other players and we would do well to remember this, even if we were a sovereign indy nation, our desires, wishes goals would always be suceptable to the whims of other nations

      this is what bj’s english exceptionalism fails to realise.

      as such, the long expected face off between holyrood and westminster is almost here. be under no illusion, this is a very risky moment in this movement, how bojo will react is uncertain.

      but we should be aware of the moves in this great game that the eu and wm have still to make, bojo will continue his brinkmanship with the eu, indeed, im not convinced he wants a deal or ever intended to respect the deal he signed with the eu.

      what happens if no deal is the result on the 31st dec? will bojo just sit back and dare the eu to build border controls on the roi/ni border? can the uk trade under the wto rules with such a situation? will ni stay in the cu/sm as agreed by bojo?

      we should be asking ourselves these questions as when nicola finally reaches the face off point with bojo, she might not be alone….

    295. Breastplate says:

      If you say so Bob.

    296. Gary45% says:

      Pete@12.09
      Its a wee bit early in the day to be pished on the delusional juice.

    297. Dogbiscuit says:

      A well reasoned post from Pete on the dangers of continuous. ‘lockdown’
      I’m more afraid of the Emergency Powers the Governments in London and Edinburgh are retaining for use as it suits them. Too many Government agents on here eh Famous 15?

    298. K1 says:

      Fwiw, ratio wise dogbiscuit has posted more comments than CBB, 22 as I count from just 9am this morning, overall on this thread alone I think he beats CBB or at least equals him.

      But I know it’s not just the quantity of CBB’s posts that some are taking issue with, it’s also the quality of the commentary that seems to be the real issue about CBB’s posts but no comments on the quality of dogbiscuit’s input from those taking issue with CBB’s input? Not even the quantity of dogbiscuit’s posts?

      And no understanding for how CBB is attempting to lessen his links to academic papers and has posted comments in response to others up thread without links? As others have requested him to do on numerous occasions on other threads.

      Just an observation folks. A sad sad observation.

    299. jfngw says:

      The Elders of the Internet Blog have spoken, please submit any comment to them directly prior to it being published.

    300. Dogbiscuit says:

      Gary 45 you re reply to urgent questions by attacking the man makes Ian Brotherhoods point.

    301. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Smack you’re being silly and naughty.

    302. Fireproofjim says:

      Rev. Between 9.40, when he reported for duty and 12 noon the dogbiscuit posted more than twenty times and in almost every case it was to insult another poster.
      I believe his only aim is to destroy Wings and it is clear that many rational and democratic posters have recently disappeared from Wings so he may be succeeding.
      I believe in different opinions being expressed but in a rational and civilised way. This destructive element is a danger to Wings and should be curbed.

    303. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob comfortably dumb Smack.

    304. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      You really are an unpleasant arsehole. I’ve only mentioned my past as a means of introducing concepts of identity and self-determination, and stuff. So why don’t you start informing your opinion, instead of trying to force your opinion on those of us who are already better informed than yourself?

    305. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 11.17am

      Well said. It’s a shame the comments BTL on here appear to have become infested with bloviating blowhards like CBB and Bob Mack on one extreme and Dogsnack and his ilk on the other.

      Back in the day there used to be some decent posts, a bit of banter and some reasonable discussion, now it appears to be mostly inchoate screeching from hard of thinking zoomers at either extreme.

      No wonder the Yes movement is running fast to stand still.

    306. Dogbiscuit says:

      Fireproofjim I insult people who insult me .Your desire to have me silenced says much about the strain fascistic thinking that passed itself off as the ‘left’ You’re more insulted by my being correct while you are wrong.
      You actually sat and counted the number of posts I’ve made?

    307. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Andy Ellis –

      Aye, there’s plenty to be done. Good to see SC back as well – let’s get back to the plotting and planning!

      😉

    308. Ron Maclean says:

      From ‘About us’

      ‘The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.

      Got something worthwhile to say about Scotland’s future? Try us.’

    309. Bob Mack says:

      @Andy Ellis,

      So many words to say so little

    310. Ottomanboi says:

      At my age i ought not to be cynic but 2020 has been an eyes wide opener.
      Systems admired and vaunted for their democratic character have shown themselves to be at ease with curbing the basic rights of citizens, in this case over an overhyped medical condition.
      As the citizenry have been obligingly compliant and government having acquired the taste what else might be subject to lockdown by decree.
      The older you get the more compliant to authority you become apparently. As Scotland’s median age is an over the hill 42 i leave you to surmise.
      The grim reaper has now become a player in the political game…..gotta stay safe love….bless!

    311. Dogbiscuit says:

      Andy Ellis so the site is not perfect enough for you eh? The yes movement is enthralled to a First Minister who is clearly not interested in advancing Independence. You know she and the National are blowing smoke up our arses .
      You blame the troops for their leaders failure . Typical of your rotten ilk.

    312. K1 says:

      Ian brotherhood sat and counted Cameron posts, apparently counting posts is now a thing on Wings, don’t upset Ian by inferring fireproofjim has done anything remotely strange and weird such as ‘counting posts’.

      ‘Cause that’s gonnae make everyone who’s counted posts on here look like a total fanny.

    313. defo says:

      You got a degree ?, in town fucking planning, and now you know everything Cameron.

      You know best, and tough luck those who aren’t as worthy.

      Unpleasant? Yes, I can be.

      What’s the name for someone who, devoid of an audience, rides the coat tails of real talent?
      Squatter?
      Entryist?

      Is every other post turning into the CBB show helping our joint endeavor, in any way?

    314. Dogbiscuit says:

      K1 and you counted mine.

    315. K1 says:

      Uh huh…that’s ma point, oh humourless one.

    316. Republicofscotland says:

      So councillors and MSPs have written to Police Scotland questioning their kettling of peaceful demonstrators for two without incident from them and causing them to break the social distancing rules.

      Whilst Police Scotland allowed the far right jack booted unionists to run free in George square in Glasgow which led to outbreaks of violence by them.

      It would appear that Police Scotland has its own agenda, and individual officers have their own allegiances, our colonial police force appears to be loyal not to Scotland but to the union, but I’m sure I’m not the first person in Scotland to notice that.

    317. Keith fae Leith says:

      K1

      Fair point, I think the important difference between the 2 posters is that 1 has information to impart, but gets lost in the deluge, the other just spouts nonsense, attacks everyone under the sun & have never posted anything positive.

      We are encouraged to ignore 1 type but engage with the other.

      I have done so fairly recently, was met with hostility for posting what I felt was praise with advice as to how it can be better absorbed. Several others have done the same.

      I’m never going to agree with everything, any poster or author says, no point if I did, would be very boring.

      The reason I’ve not engaged with the other, is because it’s beyond pity, beyond saving & would be a waste of everyone’s time.

      I now fully expect somewhere between 5-10 pots naming & attacking me from the Rex of Ad-Hom. But maybe that’s just me.

      nice to see some names from the past popping up, yourself, Fireproof Jim & others I recognise as “lapsed” posters.

    318. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Are personal attacks all you’ve got? If you doubt the knowledge I’m supplying, attack that. Otherwise, jog on.

    319. K1 says:

      Aw come on defo…I’m trying to get dog biscuit’s numbers up here! He’s winning the ‘counting posts’ on Wings marathon, CBB is way behind now, old news ma dear, old news.

    320. Gary45% says:

      Dugbiscuit Pete,
      I am attacking no one, “Use common sense and show some guts”
      Whatever the *%$* that means.

    321. K1 says:

      Yes Keith, I’m aware of the dynamic. 😉

    322. Republicofscotland says:

      Apparently there was a bit of anger on Twitter with regards comments on the new livery of Johnsons military jet. Several commentors were furious at the £900,000 pounds spent on its new image, others pointed out that the Butchers Apron (Union Jack flag) is actually upside down.

      Anger was aimed at the 60,000, plus deaths from the virus, and 80% of councils strapped for cash, and how the National debt now exceeds the UKs GDP, yet taxpayers cash could be found for this vanity project.

    323. Dan says:

      @Ron Maclean at 12:04pm

      I think it is more a two fold situation. Disruptive elements are doing their best to disrupt so a lot of folk ignore them or are put off even looking btl due to cost of replacing worn out mouse scroll wheel bearings. That results in lack of diversity of input and the interesting conversations diminish as a result.
      Plus, because of the lack of progress being made by our side and the stagnation caused by political can kicking and covid, a lot of the interesting input is now repetition of albeit valid input of opinions.

      I’ve been out grasscutting for a couple of hours and can barely believe what I’ve come back to btl on here.

      I understand many are frustrated, I’m absolutely livid that numerous initiatives myself and others have suggested over the years that were ignored at the time by those that apparently know better have now come back into play.
      Working a rural area is massively time consuming so developing a digital comms network whilst canvassing for about 50% of the electorate that were receptive to the idea of receiving their info that way rather me spending days biking around the area would make campaigning much more efficient.
      It was ignored at the time, and now because of covid restricting physical campaigning, the folk that ignored it at the time are now trying to hastily put something together… sigh

      Is there any chance some folk could initiate new subjects to discuss rather than bickering? It would make the site far more thought provoking and interesting to read.

    324. jfngw says:

      @Schrodingers cat

      I’m pretty sure the 31st June (not sure exactly what day that is though) is just another of these rolling deadlines as happened in the withdrawal agreement (I lost count of the number of deadline days). I’m not sure if this is just to wear people down so when the exit, as the EU one, eventually comes the masses have accepted the inevitable.

      Where do we go from here, there is no clear route that I can see, I wish there was. Possibly Jeggit’s latest post is one, effectively make England want rid of us by causing disruption to them. It may not be the answer but it least it someone trying to move the gridlock on.

    325. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      I’ve never claimed I know it all, I simply have a structured world-view recommended to me by the Royal Town Planning Institute. If you can’t see the relevance of me pinning my opinion to a credible cultural source, then I’m afraid you’re a bit less politically aware than is necessary to effectively defend your human rights. Do better. 😉

    326. Dogbiscuit says:

      My style and approach leaves a lot to be desired that’s true but there is a brick wall here when it comes to discussing‘lockdown’. A wall of insults and deflection.
      You should have no fear of spirited disagreement. A cosy consensus ignoring the harsh political realities will deliver diminishing returns. Politically everything is hypothetical until we get back our civic rights and freedom of movement and association. Any one who supports Government restrictions on the public is cutting the throat of the Independence movement.
      I suspect that one day we will learn just how many Government Agents actually post on this site.

    327. Republicofscotland says:

      The unionist thugs were out in force yesterday, it must’ve been due to the heat affecting small brains and all.

      Unionist held Aberdeen had a bus stop graffitied with racist slogans such as “N—– Die and “White Lives Matter”, meanwhile the jackbooted unionists spared no expense on a Nazi banner depicting Sturgeon as Hitler in Edinburgh.

    328. Dogbiscuit says:

      Keith fae Leith when you address other posters as ‘it’ you’re not advancing a political argument. Now .Is that you all insulted now?

    329. CameronB Brodie says:

      Keith fae Leith
      I thanked you for your advise and offered insight into contemporary communication theory. I can remember attacking you.

      Book Reviews
      Critical Theory and Social Media: Between
      Emancipation and Commodification

      http://www.allmer.uti.at/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TechComm-Volume-63-Number-3.pdf

    330. Ron Maclean says:

      @Ottomanboi 12:40pm

      Not everyone gets to be old. I follow Nicola Sturgeon’s rules because I don’t know enough to argue with her and I want to get older.

    331. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Dogsbreakfast 12.41pm

      Nothing is prefect. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but we don’t advocate breaking all the working clocks because that is true.

      Your criticism, like the vast majority of your output, is misplaced. I happen to share the disquiet expressed about the SNP’s leadership. As an ex-SNP member who left over the shoddy treatment of Grouse Beater I certainly have no axe to grind in the party’s favour.

      Blame attaches to those who are not inclined to bring about change, whether by voting for it in elections and referendums, or whether they fail to change the SNP’s direction and policies from within. I don’t see anything rotten with pointing out that the only people responsible for our current situation are the Scots themselves for lacking the political cojones to bring about the required changes.

    332. Vinny says:

      The massive Breahead shopping centre near Glasgow, is in deep trouble.

      It’s owners Intu are going into adminstration.

      https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/talks-save-braehead-shopping-centre-18491654

    333. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Though it risks throwing a bone to the troll, I feel have to ask.

      Does anyone here have any insight into the rumour that Mission Control may be planning to introduce BAME and Woman(definition of as yet unknown) only, short lists for constituencies where the sitting MSP is standing down?

    334. J Galt says:

      Dr Jim @ 11.42

      Many intelligent people have the suspicion that the varied experts advising government which you say are the cream of the crop are anything but.

      Research Prof. Dr. Sucharit Backdi of Mainz University – an “expert” whose qualifications and expertise are way above that of those “advising” our Prime and First Ministers. You probably won’t.

      I won’t descend to the low language you use, I find ridicule is the best weapon against ranters.

    335. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry…. I can’t remember….

      Between Emancipation and Domination:
      Habermasian Reflections on the Empowerment and
      Disempowerment of the Human Subject

      https://eprint.ncl.ac.uk/file_store/production/148458/DDB61756-F582-4526-AE41-15FC7964AAE5.pdf

    336. MightyS says:

      @jfngw

      Jeggit’s theory is worth a try. It’s as dangerous as all the other possible routes to independence, but, would be cheaper and faster, and so, why not..?

      Would need ScotPol commentators running with it though. Otherwise, it’ll just fester within Twitter.

    337. Joe says:

      @Capella 9:01am

      Yes democratic decision making. Democracy is only as effective as the information that the voters recieve. Information, and the ability to share it freely, is absolutely everything. Contol information and by extension you control peoples choices. In that way democracy becomes unjust rule via the decieved majority.

    338. Dogbiscuit says:

      It is not enough for intelligent adults just to ‘follow’.

    339. Dan says:

      @Col.Blimp IV at 1.08pm

      Ach dinnae fash yersel, folk can simply Self ID as being a member of most suitable demographic for selection purposes.

      #TheMastersToolsWillSetYouFree

      HTH

    340. Dogbiscuit says:

      OK Andy Ellis agreed .

    341. Republicofscotland says:

      The SNP MP Angus Mac Neil and councillor Chris McEleny are urging Mike Russell Scotland’s Constitutional secretary to write to Boris Johnson to immediately transfer powers to Holyrood so that we can hold a independence referendum.

      Both men say (and I agree with them) we need to know Johnsons position and quickly so that if he says no we can push on with Plan B. Will Mike Russell get his finger out and write to Johnson I hope so sooner than later.

      Meanwhile the millionaire Knight of the Realm and Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer backs his branch office in Scotlands unconditional rejection of a second independence referendum. The ennobled leader of Labour added independence is the wrong thing to do.

      We really need to exit this horrendous union or face the terrible consequences of remaining tied to it.

    342. Beaker says:

      @K1 says:
      26 June, 2020 at 12:54 pm
      “Aw come on defo…I’m trying to get dog biscuit’s numbers up here!”

      Trying to figure out what breed he represents. Definitely not pedigree and he’s no one’s chum. Perhaps he got muzzled in his youth, hence the aversion to face masks.

      Back on topic, I see the good people of Bournemouth were left with 22 tons of litter (and human waste) to clear up. The only good news was that traffic wardens issued a record number of tickets.

    343. Dogbiscuit says:

      UK column News is live on YouTube right now if anyone is interested. Enjoy.

    344. K1 says:

      ‘My style and approach leaves a lot to be desired that’s true…’

      First honest acknowledgment from you where you sound like the human being that you are.

      Yes we’re many of us in the dark about what’s really going on re the virus and the response and some are more emotionally and psychologically disposed to reacting by attacking the powers that be for sheer incompetence or lack thereof, but why repeatedly attack ordinary punters who are just out of their own fears and limited knowledge complying with guidance out of ‘an abundance of caution’?

      You made your point the first time, the hundredth time, when your style and approach ends up drowning out your message which you can clearly articulate without that ‘dogged’ style as you just did, then surely you can see that will more likely engage others with your input?

      You are being side stepped as much by others’s reactions to you as they are by your reactions to them.

      Break the cycle and then just maybe we’ll get a dialogue that’s more nuanced from all of us on here.

      _________________

      Take it easy everyone, this too shall pass. Nice to see you Dr Jim 🙂

    345. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 12.58
      Now yer talking!
      Have you read jeggits post today ?
      I’d be curious to know what you and the other’s thought?

      K1
      I think the difference is no one cares about dog biscuit Cameron on the other hand matters 🙂

    346. Vinny says:

      The English are so fickle when it comes to the weather.

      One day of sunshine and they think it’s here to stay.

      Like Scotland, many parts of England get their one day of Sunshine, then four of rain.

      England is definitely not Greece, and more often than not, they will experience rain rather than sunshine.

      So all this talk of open air bars and restaurants is a wee bit premature.

    347. Famous15 says:

      Serious question.Is it a human right to distort and disrupt or gaslight the peoples of Scotland?

    348. Ron Maclean says:

      @Dan 12:58pm

      I think I might be an independence obsessive. After independence If I can think of another topic I’ll certainly post it.

    349. Liz g says:

      Just an FYI Wingers
      UK Colum is a pale British Nationalist imitation of the right-wing nutjoberry of Infowars.
      Their take on things can be entertaining but their hand wringing over how maligned Tommy Yaxlay Robison is,not so much!

    350. Gary45% says:

      just heard on LBC, problems in the weegie.

    351. Dan says:

      @Liz g

      Yer Alert Reader badge is on a shoogly peg.

      Re. Jeggit, in amongst aw the barkin up ^^^ I guess you missed my Alf Garnett Consequentials gag… 😉

    352. robbo says:

      I see pishy breeks has piped up. Needs attention he’s no getting his 300 quid a day HOL fee- or are they,anyone know if they’re getting owt?

      https://twitter.com/murrayf00te/status/1217188091443732481

    353. Republicofscotland says:

      There’s far too many purile comments flying around in here, lets ignore this stupidity we are moving away from what matters and allowing the trolls and the 77th brigade to dictate the topics, and in the processing weakening this blogs reputation.

    354. callmedave says:

      Serious incident in Glasgow reported West George St heavy police presence! Big Auntie news just breaking.

    355. Dogbiscuit says:

      Liz g if UK column News are right wing nut jobs they should be getting behind the Governments policies no?
      You’re a bit purist in your approach it seems.
      Your willing to believe the main stream media when it suits you.

    356. callmedave says:

      Police officer stabbed and some others shoppers in hospital in Glasgow according to BBC news. 🙁

    357. CameronB Brodie says:

      Right-wing populism forces mainstream politics to move to the right, so racist authoritarianism is introduced through stealth. Scotland did not join with England to become subsumed by England’s cultural bigotry (see Brexit).

    358. K1 says:

      Beg to differ Liz, CBB is getting it in the ear from long termers on here and from SD on a regular basis, basically telling him to stfu. How is that care?

      Naw, selective biases, if yer gonnae start using ratio’s in terms of adjudicating then that applies to all posters who are deemed disruptive which is how CBB’s posts are being characterised? The ratio is a counting of posts exercise only applied to CBB, he’s been singled out because some have an issue with his ‘many’ posts with links to academic papers, whereas dogbiscuit’s r number is higher, are his/her posts not disruptive enough to ‘care’ about on here?

      Funny way of showing that Cameron’s input matters if he’s the one who attracts such specific opprobrium.

      And…the amount of replies to dogbiscuit’s posts shows a level of care from those willing to engage with those posts too.

    359. Capella says:

      @ joe – 1.15 – at last, you’ve said something I argee with.
      Yes freedom of information and speech are vital to a democracy. That’s why Alex Salmond (now on RT), Craig Murray, Stu Campbell and perhaps Mark Hirst are being shunted off the internet. This is the one communication sphere not entirely controlled by billionairs and corporations. Yet. But they’re getting there.

    360. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 1.37
      LOL….caught….I’ve just been speed reading the last few day’s…
      I’ve been busy elsewhere,tell ye better when I see ye,with what..shhh 🙂

    361. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 2.18
      Fair enough K1, it can be read that way too,I’m sure it will all get talked out properly when we all meet up 🙂
      One more thing on the list of all the catching up we have to do… We’re gonnay need a long weekend and no just a night out at this rate…LOL

    362. Capella says:

      Great to see SC and Dr Jim commenting. The quality of debate won’t improve until the site moves on to campaign-for-Indy mode. Attacking the Tories, Westminster and the appalling MSM is much more important that complaining about Pete Wishart’s tweets and such like weighty matters. IMHO.

      Re BREXIT – AFAIK the 30th June deadline is about whether or not the UK can ask for an extension to the transition period. It’s already said to be impossible to reach a “deal” before the end of the year. So that means a “no deal” BREXIT. That, in turn, means a hard border in Ireland. That, in turn, means an end to the Treaty of Union.

    363. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – BTW I agree about the British Column site – the two presenters seem to be quite depressed. It would be a full time job fact checking all their assertions – I don’t have the time.

    364. mike cassidy says:

      If you’re thinking the ‘meaningless word’ count on here is high

      How about this from the ‘8 Million Genders’ school of thought that has rooted itself in the SNP.

      On the BBC’s free online study support resource for school-age pupils

      (We’ve come a long way since singing together with William Appleby)

      ‘Asexual’ is an umbrella term that covers a big spectrum of identities, feelings, and experiences, and all of these things can vary hugely. There is a whole range of more specific asexual identities such as greysexual and demisexual, and asexual people can have all sorts of different feelings about having sex, romance, and forming relationships.

      I doubt the author is even aware she is arguing her own description out of existence here.

    365. Beaker says:

      @callmedave says:
      26 June, 2020 at 2:17 pm
      “Police officer stabbed and some others shoppers in hospital in Glasgow according to BBC news. ? ”

      Latest is 3 deaths by stabbing and suspect shot dead by police. Police officer injured and in hospital. Not good.

    366. Joe says:

      @Liz g 1:33pm

      Yes the readers of WOS need you to tell them what to think about a given subject or source of info.

      Onca again the labels and thought control come out since they are only tool of argument for the most clueless of commenters here.

    367. Joe says:

      @Capella

      You dont have to fact check everything.

      Pick one. Lets see what you can do

    368. Effijy says:

      I’m hearing the Glasgow Attacker has selected this hotel as
      It accommodated Asylum Seekers?

      Right wing extremist protecting his white Supremest philosophy.

    369. mike cassidy says:

      The link for the BBC’s asexual article

      http://archive.is/RBYFj

    370. dakk says:

      @ effijy 3.08
      ‘Right wing extremist protecting his white Supremest philosophy.’

      Heard that too, and seen some pictures on twitter of a victim being attended to by what looks like a friend/relative which may support that possibility.

    371. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Anet the stabbings in Glasgow.

      If it was conducted by a Far Right type will it be described as a “terrorist incident”?

      Will the BritNat Media apologise for shielding these thugs from proper reportage?

      Will dog whistle politicos like Murdo, Tompkins et al be held to account for legitimising these peoples twisted beliefs?

      Sad state of affairs.

    372. Beaker says:

      Lot of offensive speculation and images getting posted on Twitter. FFS why can’t people wait until we get the facts?

    373. callmedave says:

      @Beaker

      Not good right enough. I hope it is not a racial incident and the BBC are not giving any hints either way, although the hotel is being used as temporary housing for asylum seekers.

      Folk being ‘arrested’ live there on BBC from the hotel obviously to help police with their enquiries. 🙁

      Six others in hospital (one a policeman critical condition but stable) BBC

      Anyhoo!

      Figures for today

      Scotland………today…..00…….Total….2482….BBC
      Wales…………today…..02…….Total..^^1497….BBC
      N. Ireland…….today…..01…….Total…..548….BBC
      England……….today….*67…….Total.no data…*SUN
      ========================================================
      England……….today..no data…..Total…*43297..*SUN

      Welsh fig total ^^1497 same as yesterday due to a counting error by WGov yesterday.

    374. dakk says:

      Could be a troubled individual who has flipped as opposed to politically/racially motivated.

    375. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 2.52
      Aye….don’t waste yer time.. I look in now and again for pure entertainment value the twisting of the narrative is quite something,sometimes ye wonder if they actually believe that stuff,but now and again there’s an interesting fact that comes up….usually nothing to do with the line they’re pushing but a wee tangent worth looking at!

    376. Liz g says:

      dakk @ 3.49
      I must admit that was my first thought too,there’s no much capital for someone with an agenda as far as I can see.
      Dreadful nevertheless…

    377. Mist001 says:

      @ Republicofscotland:

      “meanwhile the jackbooted unionists spared no expense on a Nazi banner depicting Sturgeon as Hitler in Edinburgh.”

      Apart from myself and auldhundred, not ONE SINGLE person on here condemned that banner. They consciously and deliberately ignored it.

      And if they didn’t condemn it, then they condoned it. THAT’S the calibre of people on this site, essentially Nazi apologists.

      This site’s full of gossipy fucking blowhards and I’ve had enough. Covid, Salmond, Alphabet Sisters, 77th Brigade and all this. It’s all fucking nonsense.

      This is no longer an independence site, it’s just full of empty headed, dangerous tittle tattle merchants masquerading as independence supporters who won’t know what to do with themselves if Scotland gains independence.

      Anyway Republic, I’ll probably read your posts elsewhere. Ciao.

    378. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I missed this comment, so I’m glad I checked back

      “This exchange is annoying others so this is my last comment on it all…

      Cameron isn’t well. By his own admission. He’s been asked, repeatedly, by folk who know him, have met him, and like him, to tone it down. Even Rev gave him a warning, not so long ago that you can’t remember.”

      Hold on there a minute, you appear to be doubting my rationality, which is more than a bit cheeky. I suffer from PTSD and depression, there is nothing wrong with my sanity.

      “If you think this is some kind of a perverted parlour game, fair enough, but that doesn’t mean others have to indulge you or your ilk, wrecking every thread with personal attacks and reactionary pish.”

      Is that not what you are doing to me? It is pretty clear you have not appreciated the efforts I’ve made to raise social consciousness, and now you appear to think yourself competent to judge my credability.

      “This place, and the Yes/indy movement generally, is approaching a series of potentially defining processes: the inquiry into the ‘stitch-up’ of Alex Salmond; the publication of his book; the continuing entryism of TRA activists into positions of influence within the SNP/SG; the Holyrood elections next year.

      All of these things are connected in ways that *none* of us can discern with any certainty. But one thing’s for sure – the ‘authorities’ have made it plain that they intend to silence Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray, Alex Salmond. They’ve already managed to shut down every Twitter account Rev had. They’ll probably try to shut down @FOWingsScot at the first opportunity. And they’ll be gunning for this blog, more than ever.

      So my point, Bob, is this – you are entitled to your opinions on everything under the sun, including my IQ, Cameron’s links and heaven knows whatever else, but unless you are prepared to get your head around the existential threat to this movement and show at least some willingness to help this place get fit for what’s coming, you’re really not helping anyone. Same goes for me. If all of our efforts aren’t focused on exposing and challenging what Alex Salmond called the ‘powerful forces against us’ then this movement cannot and will not survive.”

      I’ve been knocking my pan in to inform the debate with scientific, ethical, and legal evidence and opinion, that would improve the reader’s understanding of what is going on. Can you imagine how I feel that this effort appears to have passed you by, as you interpret my self-determination as mental illness. That’s not what friends do for each other, but know I at least know where you’re coming from. 🙁

    379. Gary45% says:

      Cameron, your one of the good guys, don’t take the bait.
      Ian B is only trying to give you friendly advice, there are one or two who try and give you grief, Ian isn’t one of them.
      Sit back and let them rant.

    380. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gary45%
      That’s not how I interpreted Ian’s comment, though perhaps I’m just being a snowflake. I’m cool though. 😉

    381. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      I hate to think that I’ve upset you. I was just trying to be honest and I hope you’ll give some brownie points for that at least.

      Quite a few others seem to have been irked or offended by what I said so I’ll take some time out and have a think about it all.

      A parting thought – I used to heartily recommend this place (i.e. btl) to anyone who would listen to me but I haven’t done so for ages. The place is in a sorry state altogether but if you feel that you can improve it and have the support to do so, good luck to ye.

      BTW, I’ll still be reading, but this seems to be a case of irresistible force vs immovable object. (I hope you don’t object to being described as immovable because I’m certainly not irresistible.)

      Hoots for now mister.

      😉

    382. Bob Mack says:

      @Cameron.

      Always remember that sometimes lovely curtains can hide dirty windows. I think you understand what I mean by that.

    383. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I’m doing my best to be human, but I’ve been trained to use science and the law to defend the human spirit. I was a bit hurt but I’ve had worse on my nose. 😉

    384. Dogbiscuit says:

      Cameron it’s probably worth nothing to you but I think Gary 45 is right .

    385. dakk says:

      186 new Covid deaths in UK today according to Sky News.

      None in Scotland.

      Looks like England’s second wave may be starting already,with Scotland by association likely to follow soon.

      Unless we control the borders of course.

    386. Robert graham says:

      Ok ok who’s got a photo of the offending banner ?

      Well that’s someone asking for details about the banner ok happy ?

    387. callmedave says:

      Figures for today official:

      Scotland………today…..00…….Total….2482….BBC
      Wales…………today…..02…….Total..^^1497….BBC
      N. Ireland…….today…..01…….Total…..548….BBC
      England……….today….*67…….Total.no data…*SUN
      ========================================================
      UK……….today….1.86…..Total…..43414…BBC

    388. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m certainly not immovable, so hopefully I’m irresistible. 🙂

      Locating the Subject: Towards a Reading of Young Women,
      Identity and Postmodernity

      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/43663.pdf

    389. Dan says:

      Friday nicht thought… Maybe folk need to stop being so fragile and triggered.
      Circumstances at the present time mean we’re using the cold hard written word to converse, which wholly lacks the nuance and emotional gestures a face to face conversation with a pint would have.
      FFS, let’s get some perspective here. We are trying to free our country from the last vestiges of imperially minded psychopath rulers that for hunners of years have caused havoc around the planet.
      Aye, at times it’s shite being Scottish, but we’re working towards fixing that… so nae cunt leaves here till the job’s done! (Mimics throwing pint glass over shoulder)

      Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
      Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.
      We were all meant to shine as children do. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone, and as we let out own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same, as we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others…

    390. Bob Mack says:

      Putting the wishes of others first, teaches you that you come second. Not a winning formula.

    391. Joe says:

      In the last few days ive posted some things ive genuinely thought about. The responses to them were basically trolling 101. Anytime someone speaks against the bullshit narrow perspective of what now supposedly represents Scottish nationalism is labelled, then the label attacked. Me and my ‘ilk’ are just getting started. This is why lefties always end up looking for regulated safe spaces.

    392. Scozzie says:

      Can we all take a chill pill? Let’s drop the personal attacks on each other and focus on debating the job at hand.

      It doesn’t help that we have complete silence from the SNP on the ‘I’ word and COVID has to a degree disabled the YES movement.

      However, we’ve got good minds on this site, let’s knock heads together to kickstart momentum. The YES movement has achieved so much in changing hearts and minds. We just need to be nimble, adapt and ‘get back on the horse’.

      We shouldn’t sit about waiting for a green light – just start doing things again…anything is better than arguing amongst ourselves.
      – AUOB organise a virtual protest

      – Phantom Power get some short, snappy videos circulating e.g 50 ways to be shafted by WM. But also do some serious stuff e.g. education on HR election voting system.

      – YES hubs, coordinate better online. Do online campaigns collectively and hit all your social media followers at the same time on various subjects e.g. countdown to no deal Brexit and its impact etc.

      – Indy poster boy – get viral memes going, humour always works best and is most likely to be shared.

      There must be peeps on here who are well connected or have great talents to get this fucking show back on the road!

    393. callmedave says:

      From BBC live rolling news:

      ————————————————————–
      What do we know so far?

      A suspect has been shot dead by police after six people were injured, including an officer, during a major incident in Glasgow.

      The incident happened at the Park Inn Hotel in West George Street, in the centre of the city at about 12.50.
      The 91-room hotel was housing asylum seekers for the Mears Group, which moved them there during the coronavirus lockdown.

      The suspect was shot by armed police and died.

      Six other people are in hospital for treatment to their injuries including a police officer, who is in a critical but stable condition.

      The police are not looking for any other suspects
      The incident has been contained and the wider public are not at risk, police said.
      —————————————————————-

    394. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      That you posing as a moderate again?

      The Social Construction of
      Whiteness: Racism by Intent,
      Racism by Consequence

      https://www.cwu.edu/diversity/sites/cts.cwu.edu.diversity/files/documents/constructingwhiteness.pdf

    395. Dan says:

      Joe says: at 5:31 pm

      In the last few days ive posted some things ive genuinely thought about.

      Are you saying you hadn’t put much thought into all the posts you’ve made prior to the last few days? 🙂

    396. Bob Mack says:

      Sky news absolutely desperate for the Glasgow incident to be a “Terririst” occurence. However Police Scotland say “No”.

      Sky reporter then states it may take the Police 24\48 hours to work out it was.

    397. mike cassidy says:

      The snowflake virus is taking over Wings.

      Even Joe is feeling hurt that nobody is taking his trolling seriously.

      Meanwhile, in the real world

      Gov. Greg Abbott orders Texas bars to close again and restaurants to reduce to 50% occupancy as coronavirus spreads

      http://archive.is/yxm8i

    398. Gary45% says:

      WOS just came back on ???

    399. Alec Lomax says:

      Puir Joe, ain’t life a bitch ?

    400. call me dave says:

      Miles O/T:

      Well played Stephen Maguire on picking up £250,000 thanks to a 10-6 victory over Mark Allen in the Tour Championship final a wee while ago.

      He also beat Trump in the semi. 🙂

      Watched him over the last 3 days focused and slightly slimmer I thought.

      Glad Wings back on-line.

    401. Still Positive says:

      Hurrah!

    402. jfngw says:

      @Gary45%

      And we found out WoS doesn’t use Apache.

    403. Joe says:

      Not hurt. Pointing out that it doesnt matter what you post, or how well considered it is, or what its about there will be people being dicks about it.

      Its not just one ‘ilk’. In fact the mindfuck pretendy Scottish nationalists on here are the worst.

    404. Fireproofjim says:

      I was worried there. Thought the thought police had got you.
      Welcome back.

    405. Joe says:

      Then whine like the pigs that they are when someone does it back.

      Sorry if thats harsh, but after a long time reading and posting here most of you are ideologically rigid and kept in 2014 stasis. Which is evidently why the world passes and the pretendy Scottish nationalists get nowhere

    406. Still Positive says:

      My last comment was directed at Gary 45% at 11.21.

    407. call me dave says:

      Just completed a Opinium Poll a very small section on UK politics.

      2-Q’s only.

      Which party did you vote for in last UK General election.
      Which party will you for if a UK General election was tomorrow.

      PS:
      Radio 5 not going big time on Glasgow incident tonight.
      Short headline news and a one minute interview (repeat from earlier on) BBC reporter talked about ‘tensions’ / ‘unionist-right wing groups’ in George Sq in last few days.

      Petered out really….. big Auntie not pushing it!

    408. Ruglonian says:

      Hope that the hosting company’s problem, which resulted in the temporary loss of WOS, made *some* on here reflect how precious this place is.
      Maybe we’ll see less shitposting?

    409. Bob Mack says:

      Joe claims he makes considered posting then proceeds to call everybody dicks and pretendy nationalists.

      Does he have ANY degree of insight at all. Any?

    410. F Mooney says:

      I agree about the loo roll – this will worsen. You should be buying an extra everything when you can. Brexit is also coming. Invest in a couple of jerry cans and fill them.

    411. jfngw says:

      F Mooney

      Toilet paper and jerry cans, what are you filling them with?

    412. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      You might think you’re on to a good thing here, but I’ve been trained to deal with the extreme-right. 😉

      Right-wing populist parties endorse what can be recognised as the “arrogance of ignorance”
      https://www.cairn.info/revue-mots-2017-3-page-165.htm#

    413. Confused says:

      Wings down? I thought maybe the REV had put down the “golem” of his own BTL – a plague on all your postings.

      – here’s something interesting, about the games being played on us all

      https://isgp-studies.com/liberal-cia-immigration#2020-black-lives-matter-goes-mainstream

      – follow the money, just like with the tranny insanity

    414. boris says:

      9. After 18 years in power, the Conservative Party had lost ground with the British electorate despite the country’s economic boom. The Tories succeeded by squashing the unions, trimming social-welfare programs, privatizing key state-owned industries, and promoting a free market for business. But since his election as Labour Party leader in the spring of 1994, Tony Blair had captured the public imagination by moving the Labour Party to the center. On nearly every economic issue, Blair’s party has co-opted Tory positions—pledging, for example, not to increase public spending or raise taxes. As a result, the Labour Party had held a consistent lead of some 20 points over the Tories in the months before the 1997 election.

      https://caltonjock.com/2020/06/26/running-the-united-kingdom-from-beyond-the-grave-sir-jimmy-goldenballs-goldsmith-issue-1/

    415. boris says:

      Goldsmith, together with his friend Rupert Murdoch’ was an integral member of the Reagan-Bush “secret government” apparat known as “Project Democracy.”

      An official of the CIA’s retirees lobby, the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, who served in the CIA London station described Goldsmith as a “member of SIS (British Secret Intelligence Services) old-boys’ board of directors” and the private financier who handled British intelligence’s “Israel account.”

      He also served on the board of media magnate Conrad Black’s Hollinger Corp. together with Henry Kissinger and ex NATO chief Rothschild related, Tory peer, Peter Lord Carrington.

      Hollinger’s group acquired the Jerusalem Post, which became the official mouthpiece for Israel’s government.

      https://caltonjock.com/2020/06/26/running-the-united-kingdom-from-beyond-the-grave-sir-jimmy-goldenballs-goldsmith-issue-2/

    416. Colin Alexander says:

      Aye, Wings was offline for a while.

      I wonder what the reason was.

    417. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Colin Alexander

      Mist001 said Sayonara in an unusual manner about an hour before the site went down.

    418. CameronB Brodie says:

      Right, some folk might have thought I’m a bit nuts. Perhaps I am, but I’m also trained to fight right-wing populism and authoritarian legal practice. I have the perfect skill-set to defend Scotland’s democracy from British nationalism, and I’m trying to share these skills with the WOS readers. So I’m sorry if I’m a bit pushy, but I’m determined to do all I can to defend my human rights.

      Full text.

      Right-wing populism and the dynamics of style: a discourse-analytic perspective on mediated political performances

      Abstract
      This article offers new ways of conceptualising style in right wing populist communicative performances, by foregrounding a structured and conceptually informed use of “style” that moves beyond the descriptive sense routinely employed in political communication.

      Specifically, it explores how a discourse-analytic approach to mediated populist discourse can inform and advance the current understanding of populist ‘style’ by analysing some contextually produced linguistic and discursive choices in populist rhetorical repertoires – i.e., the communicative strategies that are deployed in mediated contexts for right-wing populist political communication….

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0132-6

    419. mike cassidy says:

      Its our old friend panic-buying

      http://archive.is/F2Lwk

    420. Robert graham says:

      Oh the site is back being getting a Bad Gateway 502 for some reason , 502 usually means a server error or server down anyone else getting this ?

    421. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert graham
      Yep.

    422. Robert graham says:

      It’s amazing how the British state operates , all news channels are conveniently missing a relevant fact in their reporting of today’s incident in Glasgow , this omission covers the Tory governments arse , no mention anywhere of the lock changes carried out by serco on behalf of Pritty Patel and the home office , every single news organisation bought and bloody well sold , B::d-reds even one

    423. Robert graham says:

      Cheers CBB I thought it was just me thanks

    424. dakk says:

      Was getting Shite Gateway 502 too.

      Nice to see y’all back.

    425. Joe says:

      I see it cant have been a white person or a ‘right winger’ that was killing people in Glasgow then?

      Its very funny when you watch the difference in attitudes.

      Scenario 1: A white arsehole goes into a mosque and shoots people.

      Narrative: within minutes its ‘white supremacy’ and ‘right wing’. ‘This must be stamped out’. Hand in all fire arms!

      Scenario 2: middle eastern guy blows up a bunch of kids.

      Narrative: we cant use this to make stereotypes. Don’t look back in anger. Pray for #. We are all one.

      But – im not going to judge. Its clearly just coincidence that when you accept anyone in from anywhere who claims to be a refugee with any story they like that some of them turn out to be total fucking nutters.

      Clearly there was a legitimate reason for going nuts and stabbing people? Perhaps the hotel toilet paper was too thin? Guy went to wipe his arse, fingers poked through and got all shitey, and he thinks ‘fuck this. Sumbdys getting chibbed’.

      Could have been me or you really. Right?

      Look at it this way – thank GOD it wasn’t a ‘white supremacist’ who did it. That would have been unbearable. Right?

      Its a bit like the whole GRA thing and hate speech laws. Its a worthwhile sacrifice if people have to go to jail, get r*ped or stabbed. Its all part of our flowery diverse, tolerant fantasy country where such things matter but little in the face of your own righteous self satisfaction – unless they happen to you.

      Don’t worry though. IF you do feel a little bit down, and the cracks in that sweet liberal progressive dreamscape start to appear, you can go to twitter and do your best impression of a foaming fucking lunatic at someone who has no control over what happens in Scotland.

    426. Willie says:

      As Ruglothian commented the temporary loss this evening of Wings does make you realise how the blog would be missed. Wings played a huge part in the referendum and continues to have a big part of the fight for independence.

      Ditto all of the others who have attracted the fire of the police and prosecutors. Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Manny Singh are not being targeted for nothing.

    427. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      Your positioning is so fucked up, I’m almost certain you’re either trained or reading from a script. So it is just as well I know how to deal with those who threaten liberal democracy.

      Othering others: Right-wing populism in UK
      media discourse on “new” immigration

      https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1257&context=teachlearnfacpub

    428. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joe
      Are you perhaps the ‘brains’ of Scotland’s alt-right?

      The Rise of Right-wing Populism in
      Europe and the United States
      A Comparative Perspective

      https://www.fesdc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/publications/RightwingPopulism.pdf

    429. Beaker says:

      Re the Glasgow incident earlier today, why the fuck do reporters always ask stupid fucking questions to eye witnesses? They all do it. BBC, Sky, bloody radio, newspapers…

      “The man was running towards you with six knives, an AK-47 and a chainsaw. How were you feeling?”

      I want someone to stare the camera in the eye and say “I was fucking shitting myself!”

      Or perhaps “Nnnnnngghh” (mind the Chewin’ the Fat sketch?)

    430. Liz g says:

      Willie @ 1.27
      Well said, I hope all who checked in, and those who worried,or even wondered…that YES had lost a resource..To
      THINK, they’d lost *this* resource?
      Remember… There are very few uncensored places anymore!
      And.. My,My,My…how yer encouraged tae leave it!

    431. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Scozzie 5.32pm

      It’s a fine aspiration right enough. Whether it will happen seems more open to question. For what it’s worth I do agree wholeheartedly with what Ian Brotherhood said above: I could never see myself recommending this as a forum for others to look at in the way I would have before.

      Stu can of course do what he wants with his blog: his game, his ball. Given all he’s done for the cause he certainly deserves a break, and obviously some folk are quite happy seeing the BTL comments being wall to wall reposts and cut and paste efforts from Cameron to educate lesser mortals. Whether it’s appropriate in any given thread, or whether it really adds to anything other than his own sense of self importance is open to considerable doubt.

      Seems to me this place should be a shop front for those in the Yes movement frustrated at the current situation. Given the current state of it, I’m surprised nobody has put the windaes in.

    432. CameronB Brodie says:

      Joslyn Jane
      Show us what you’ve got then, or jog om.

    433. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, that last one for Andy Ellis.

    434. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      Come on then, you appear to know it all, though you don’t appear to want to share your skills, or substantiate your opinion.

      Scientific Explanation
      and Human Emancipation

      https://www.radicalphilosophyarchive.com/issue-files/rp26_article2_scientificexplanation_bhaskar.pdf

    435. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      As I expected, you’ve nothing but your own ego to show folks.

      Resistance in Unjust Times: Archer, Structured Agency and the Sociology of Health Inequalities
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107758/

    436. Andy Ellis says:

      @CBB

      As usual, you substantiate nothing. Endlessly cutting and pasting links to sources few people read proves nothing, it simply serves to clutter up the BTL discussion. You’re patently not capable of making the arguments yourself, or distilling them, you simply regurgitate screeds of stuff you insist backs up what passes for your argument.

      Not only is it irritating, it’s boring. It still escapes me why you think hijacking this forum to tilt at your windmills is appropriate.

    437. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      My argument is not worth much as I have zero social capital. That’s why I follow my training and refer to authoritative cultural sources. Folk don’t like to be told things and are far less likely to accept new perspectives, if they don’t find them out for themselves. Point them in the right direction though, and folk tend to educate themselves and so are be able to make better decisions.

      If you don’t like my approach, I suggest you contact the RTPI and tell them their educational strategy is pants, and that you know better. 😉

      ———–

      Full text.

      Retroduction, reflexivity and leadership learning: Insights from a critical realist study of empowerment
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1350507619856244

    438. Sensibledave says:

      CBB

      You wrote “So I’m sorry if I’m a bit pushy, but I’m determined to do all I can to defend my human rights.“

      … well, if posting links to irrelevant “opinions”, from people no one has ever heard of is you doing “everything you can to defend your human rights” … then wow … you are a very brave and committed soldier and, doubtless, you will single handedly change the course of history.

      Alternatively, you could just be another blowhard, pseudo intellectual, numpty bigot?

    439. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      I’m not in the least surprised you would want to stick your nose where it doesn’t belong, Toryboy. Come to see what critical emancipation looks like? 😉

      Critical Realist Activity Theory
      CRAT

      Abstract
      This thesis develops a theoretical-interpretive scheme, a Critical Realist Activity Theory (CRAT). It is argued that learning is a passage through the dialectic, the logic of emancipation and for self-emancipation. The structure of CRAT follows the 1M-5A Bhaskarian dialectical schema to show how the theories of Collaborative Learning, Cooperative Learning, Supplemental Instruction, and Activity Theory (AT) function in a pluralist sense to account for the main critical realist categories of reality — 1M: learning as product (non-identity), 2E: learning as process (negativity), 3L: learning as process-in-product (totality), 4D: learning as product-in-process (transformative agency), and 5A: learning as emancipatory intentionality (reflexivity).

      In particular, CRAT engages the basic tenets of Critical Realism to provide a philosophical foundation and simultaneously, a resolution to various dualisms that AT suffers from. An immanent critique of AT, as a method of argumentation, is particularly effective for this purpose since it involves taking a theory and its claims about the world and using them to show that the theory is inconsistent with itself.

      Then CRAT goes on to show, at the level of omissive critique, that a key element that is absent from the historical development of the activity-theoretical approach and explains its dualisms is the omission of a critique of empiricism, i.e., a critique of Humean philosophy. Thereafter, CRAT goes on from the immanent and omissive critiques, a step further with an explanatory critique as a means by which to reincorporate the absent element in AT in order to reclaim and strengthen our perception of emancipatory human praxis. The result from cementing this tradition in a critical realist philosophy is a move through dialectical learning.

      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/1-4020-8095-6_42

    440. mike cassidy says:

      So the transactivists got the Rev taken off Twitter.

      Now they’ve done the same with Graham Linehan.

      If there’s one thing they hate more than women

      Its men publicly supporting women.

    441. Graham says:

      “new cases are far lower than when lockdown came in”

      This is factually wrong.
      New cases are higher now than they were on 23 March.

      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

      Looking at the seven day rolling average for new cases and deaths shows the true picture.

    442. bipod says:

      “Factually wrong”

      Not so and you know it. The current testing capacitity to detect new cases is far higher now than it was back on March 23rd.

    443. Polly says:

      Wish I could say this article was wrong but herd immunity it still the goal. I have some vulnerable family members and fear for them even during normal bad flu seasons.

      And I heard about the writer of Father Ted. Perhaps since he’s better known nationally than Stuart it will create more impact that free speech does matter and that unless more people speak up no one will be allowed to speak except those promoting the trans orthodoxy. Here’s hoping it might create enough of a backlash to get the ball rolling.



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