Scotlands cartoon makar, if there is such a thing, and if not…it’s just been invented.
Simply genius.
Bob Mack
4 years ago
There are some things that just won’t polish.
Fabulous cartoon Chris. I envy your talent to tell a long story in one picture.
Stoker
4 years ago
Thank you Chris! Now away to make sure Carlaw & Co see it. 🙂
Ian McCubbin
4 years ago
Totally apt, well done ?
Ian McCubbin
4 years ago
Ah emojis don’t translate.
winifred mccartney
4 years ago
Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff – every single Scottish Tory voted against it including Sec of State and ex Sec of State. Brass neck does not even begin to describe him.
Stoker
4 years ago
@ Ian 7:56 am – Two dots & a closed bracket. Make sure you leave a space from the end of your sentence before doing it. Good luck!
Mike d
4 years ago
You cannot polish a turd.
Achnababan
4 years ago
Is the wifie wie the hammer tool Kezia Dugdale by any chance Chris?
Morgatron
4 years ago
Lovely Chris, perfectly capturing Carlaws grubby politics and his merry gang of neathderols who bring nothing to Scottish politics except keeping chairs warm, drawing large salaries and raising false accusations, feeding the bbc & smears. They are the very reason that PR needs abolished at Holyrood. Marvellous Chris and ta for the chuckle.
[…] Wings Over Scotland
The Shining
Read the full article::
Wings Over Scotland
The […]
MightyS
4 years ago
That’s Glinner’s account been suspended.
Some days, I don’t think we’ll ever win against them.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
A long MUST READ from Frank Furedi, but worth it. link to spiked-online.com
I admire Western culture, what remains of it, but i could never be a ‘Westerner’, too much self loathing, too much guilt and navel gazing with the fingers hovering over the auto-destruct button.
galamcennalath
4 years ago
What’s the old saying? You can polish a Tory as much as you want, but it’s still a Tory.
jfngw
4 years ago
I’m sure Jackson Carlaw will be suspending those MP’s from Scotland who voted against weekly testing of NHS & care staff, after all it’s one of his priorities is it not. He certainly talks about testing often enough, I suspect he will stop until her thinks we have forgotten, we never forget though.
Not only a failed car salesman but a failed party leader to add to his CV.
O/T Why does BBC Scotland keep on asking ‘why are you not following England’ in the corona virus response. With zero deaths compared to 183 yesterday you would think the question should be ‘why are England not following Scotland’s lead’ but when your dripped in colonialism it’s a impossible mind step to take. The power of the BBC emanates from the centre, when they appear in a region, and the BBC see Scotland as a region, they talk down to you, they see you as inferior, and as CameronB would say ‘I have extensive training in that area’.
Classic Chris, you nailed it. Gala@9.47
You beat me to it;))
jfngw
4 years ago
I see John Major believes Covid will make independence more difficult. I’m not sure what analysis he is using but being a Tory it could be we are not reducing our pension costs as efficiently as they are in England.
Willie
4 years ago
The man indeed whose party voted against Testing.
And now he snipes incessantly but at the same time wants all the controls removed so that folks can go back to work and bugger le wave second.
But look at the worker in Mr Cairn’s cartoon. Could that be a sweat she’s in, like the sweat on a sweat shop. Yep, typifies Mr Carlaw and his ilk perfectly.
jfngw
4 years ago
BBC Scotland are not happy their anti-Scotland message is not getting across, support just keeps growing (well not reducing anyway). They have sent out their coded message ‘powder-keg’ in the hope they can get some serious rioting in the streets of Glasgow, it must be getting near the last throw of the dice for them.
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Might S 9.07am
It was only a matter of time. The issue is what to do about it: either those who support Glinner & Stu do something about it and use other forums like Mastodon, Gab, Manyverse, Minds etc, or they accept that their free speech is constrained by the dictates of the regressive men’s rights activists behind the trans extremists.
Seems to me part of any new list party (or indeed post indy party representing those who agree with scientific reality) should be the protection of free speech with strong US style constitutional protection.
PacMan
4 years ago
jfngw says: 27 June, 2020 at 9:48 am
O/T Why does BBC Scotland keep on asking ‘why are you not following England’ in the corona virus response. With zero deaths compared to 183 yesterday you would think the question should be ‘why are England not following Scotland’s lead’
Considering the size of England,it’s population and how it’s distributed throughout it’s land mess, it is obvious different types of responses are required for different parts of England.
I wonder if the question of regional responses to the health crisis for different parts of England was asked to the BBC Scotland they would be speechless as it doesn’t fit in with their narrative of Scotland/SNP bad?
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Nice one Chris, a Tory wouldn’t be a Tory without the obligatory Brass Neck of dishonour.
Meanwhile the Times newspaper (in Scotland) political editor lied to Scotland’s FM Nicola Sturgeon during her Covid-19 daily bulletin, saying to her that AUOB marches were going ahead very soon, when infact that’s not the case, which prompted Sturgeon to plead with them not to hold any mass marches right now, and in the process cast a cloud shame over the movement.
Of course this kind of grubby wee lies from unionist news rags is nothing new, in my opinion all it does is diminish their already flagging reputation as a fair and honest reporting news outlet. I’m sure the Times newspaper in Scotland will see sales drop after this disgraceful attempt to blacken the name of the AUOB.
Don’t buy the Times hit them where it hurts in the pocket.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Leading Labour branch office in Scotland activist Sean Baillie has quit the party due to Labours leader and millionaire Knight of the Realm Sir Keir Starmer opposing our democratic right to a second Scottish independence referendum.
It would seem twitters aim is to be the communication of the ‘Hello’ reader, it’s what they want and what the politicians want.
Mastodon is just as restrictive and your instance will be blocked by others if you tread on controversial (in their opinion) territory. Gab is just another version of Mastodon but with some dubious members, seems to be the choice of the far-right.
The problem of moving to these small players is you are stuck in a bubble, the minority fetish lobbyists will have won. They will go unhindered in their normalisation of of their pet fetish’s.
jfngw
4 years ago
@PacMan
England is not organised to respond in the way you suggest, The councils of England do not have the power required and I can’t see WM ever giving it to them. If they did that they would also certainly need to increase Scotland’s powers, a definite no-no for them.
Not sure of the land mass comment, Scotland’s land mass is 2/3rd of England and more difficult a terrain when an outbreak occurs in a more remote area.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Edwina Currys ex-PM toyboy John Major, who vehemently opposes Scottish independence, for many reason including England losing Trident and its seat at the UN Security Council, has said on that bastion of the union radio station, Radio 4, that Scottish independence will be much harder now to obtain due to the pandemic.
Major must surely be aware that the polls suggest otherwise, and that being part of this union for 313 years has been a far bigger hinderance to Scotland and Scots and their development than this pandemic.
Another good Scottish saying for people of the Carlaw calibre
Is his ability to crawl under a snakes belly while wearing a top hat.
As a failed car dealer he will also be aware of the term for selling and old banger.
It’s a Tar Boiler with a Wax job.
Exactly what the Tory party are best described as!
HYUFD
4 years ago
Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.
Scotland would have to leave it however
Effijy
4 years ago
The site below will be confirming 10,000,000 tested Covid positive today.
There will also be confirmed 500,000 Covid deaths globally.
We know the Tories are hiding 20,000 plus deaths and many of the other
Corrupt governments such as in Trumpland will be playing the same game.
The third world nations can not afford testing or recording so I would in no way
Be surprised if the real numbers were double those recorded.
Queue the Unionist Trolls to tell us it’s all lies and it’s just the Common Cold.
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@jfngw 10.57am
People in the Yes movement who agree with Stu and Glinner’s position on this issue have to make a choice in the end. It’s become obvious that the chilling effect of being othered by a-scientific flat-earthers means you either have to agree with their woo-woo, or (as I suspect most will do) keep your head down and avoid saying anything about it.
I see what you mean about being in a bubble, but if those held guilty of thought crime are to be permanently excluded from other platforms, what alternative is there? I have zero faith twitter will change its stance, anymore than I now believe the SNP will be rescued from the folly of its current stance on the issue.
People talk a good game, but in the end what have those who disagree with twitters actions (or those of the SNP in similar vein), need to ask what they’ve achieved. Stu’s twitter account remains suspended. Glinner’s is now suspended. The trans lobby remains entrenched in the SNP and appears to have carte blanche from the leadership. No action is taken against them, nor are they effectively combatted by most in the party apart from a few brave individuals like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine.
Capella
4 years ago
re Twitter ban for glinner – perhaps it’s up to too-big-to-fail JK Rowling to make the point about free speech and science denying censorship. She could probably fund a rival social media platform.
The new ISP can challenge the gender nonsense in the one place where they can make a difference, the next Holyrood election.
jfngw
4 years ago
@HYUFD
Oh look your back with if you don’t bend the knee we will punish you rhetoric. You are welcome to keep Trident, the quicker it is removed from Scotland the better.
We could have possibly aligned with Russia but it looks like the Tories beat us to it, where is that Russia report your party are hiding?
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Capella 11.53am
I hope you’re right about the ISP: we certainly need some alternative as the SNP appears to be a lost cause. It seems to have been a fairly amateurish start IMO, and I’m not convinced they will reach “escape velocity” to gain a significant number of MSPs without upping their game or coming up with some big hitters?
I doubt JKR is that bothered about constructing a twitter alternative. As an individual she’s pretty untouchable due to her position and wealth. There are already alternative platforms, but as pointed out earlier, people are loathed to use things that haven’t reached critical mass. Going forward those supporting a list only party like ISP or any future WoS party need to look at organising on a federated, open source community where the can’t be de-platformed or banned.
Capella
4 years ago
Great cartoon BTW. The scandal of Tory MPs voting down testing for nurses needs to be made more public.
We also heard this morning that the Home Office is responsible for moving asylum seekers from their flats in communities, where they had support, into city centre hostels where they had reduced financial support. Alison Thewliss was interviewed on R Scotland this morning and made the point that both the Scottish Government and Glasgow City Council had expressed concern to the Home Office about this policy and the negative impact on already traumatised individuals.
This was done by the private company who carries out Home Office orders. The reason given was the corona virus lockdown.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
Some Scots did very well out of the British empire, Sutherland, Jardine, Matheson.. link to globalresearch.ca
No need for woke hand wringing or sackcloth, it’s simply history from which we learn about the true nature of globalist imperialism, its schemes, projects and fork tongued agents.
The Afghan Taliban attempted to eradicate opium poppy cultivation. Under US occupation and patronage it restarted.
Using narcotics and intoxicants to weaken cultures is an old imperialist trick. Viruses are rather handy too.
Beaker
4 years ago
@winifred mccartney says:
27 June, 2020 at 7:57 am
“Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff”
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it was 331 Tories who voted against testing, which makes it even worse.
Hopefully we are not going the same way as the USA. Following Trump’s latest rally, news is that several Secret Service staff and a lot of the attendees are now self-isolating due to symptoms of COVID-19.
Capella
4 years ago
@ Andy Ellis – I agree the ISP needs some big names to make an impression. It would be great if Alex Salmond would join – and Stu and Craig! Annoy all the right people. Indycar Gordon Ross has joined. But I’m as guilty as any for not going to their website yet.
I’ve heard that members of Wokus Dei are planning to become candidates in the next Holyrood election. If any Branch is stupid enough to select them, then the ISP will have to have a leaflet campaign to hand to educate the voters.
Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
HYUFD 11:15
Depends on how you see things, Scotland as a founding element of the UKGBI might also claim successor state status. The assumption that England would be so considered is pure speculation.
Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.
The USSR was a totally different political entity from the Scotland-England union.
There is anyway much discontent around the concept of ‘permanence’ on the so-called security council. Cui bono?
jfngw
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis
Yes, it’s a dilemma what is the correct route to take, do we try and be cleverer with our use of Twitter and is it possible (I’m not on twitter but I do have a Mastodon account, it’s quiet compared to twitter , I can still read most peoples posts there without joining, only a couple of people I recognise there). There was a mass influx last Dec when people like MrMalky and Jeggit joined but they never post and have remained on Twitter.
It’s not really feasible to run your own successful Mastodon instance unless you have a decent stash of money. Your ISP I suspect would soon complain if you ran it from your online account and a single person administering this type of service is not reliable. You really need to have it hosted and with a company that will not throw you off when pressurised by the lobbyists.
Joe
4 years ago
@Ottomanboi
Is this brutal truth saturday?;)
@Effijy
Tories bad. Trump bad. There. Thats me put in the accepted limit of discussion. I wont go a step further for now
from `The United Nations Association – UK is the leading independent policy authority on the United Nations in the UK, and a UK-wide grassroots membership organisation.`
“If one were to take the view that after Scotland’s independence there would be no continuing state of the UK, and instead two new nations – separate legal entities – had been created, then neither new nation would be entitled to the UK’s permanent Security Council seat, and so the seat would in theory be lost.”
and we will let you have Trident as a `wee going away prezzie`, stick it up the Thames somewhere,park the subs outside the dump that is Westminster.
Brian Doonthetoon
4 years ago
Hi Capella at 12:16 pm.
You typed, “Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.”
Yeah, I joined Gab as well but the content of their “news” emails had me raising my eyebrow. I’ve done nothing with my account.
MightyS
4 years ago
@AndyEllis Mind last year when Stu was silenced off Twitter, he was going to suss out other platforms…did he ever report back on that?
Also, I agree. We can sit and whine about how Twitter keeps cancelling us or we can actually move onto another platform, or, create our own. So what if it’s a bubble – the French Resistance weren’t exactly all-inclusive were they? We will at least be able to organise and get stuff done.
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@ Capella & jfngw
Agree with both of you it’s a conundrum. I joined Gab too, and whilst there are lots of loonies on there, I’m prepared to hold my nose and see how it goes for the benefit of it being open source and self hosted. To my mind the alt-right nutters on Gab are no worse than the trans extremists on twitter, and the benefit of Gab is you’re not going to get cancelled or suspended for wrong think.
It takes a fair amount of money, technical expertise and effort to build a new platform from the ground up….same goes for an alternative party. From a social media point of view the good thing about using a federated platform like Gab is that it will be immune from the kind of pile-ons & suspensions we’ve seen on twitter. Potentially also useful for the groups function which twitter doesn’t have.
jfngw
4 years ago
@Capella
There are companies that will host Mastodon instances for you:
But a quick look at their terms and conditions and you will see they would eject you just like twitter did with Glinner. Plus all these systems need someone to moderate them or you will soon find your instance filled with thing you don’t want or may not even be legal in the UK.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Ottomanboi
You wrote “ Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.”
I understand what you are saying, but in actuality, I am 100% sure that the Uk without Scotland would continue to cal itself the UK. It’s just a name. Outside of Scotland, we do not get exercised about the historic politics of current names. It’s been a while since people drove there cattle through the stream here. Somehow though, the name Oxford has stuck.
Capella
4 years ago
What I like about twitter is I can Follow people who have interesting or challenging things to say. I have a wide range of people I follow. I hardly ever post myself but do retweet stuff quite regularly.
Stu’s twitter account was a great source of news about things I’m interested in. Better than the BBC.
But twitter started banning and suspending people and “deboosting” people. I think I’m following them but no tweets appear. It’s insidious.
All the big US corporations are playing this game. Censorship. There ought to be a law protecting freedom of expression. But private companies can please themselves with no obligation to respect diverse opinions. Thus the great open forum of the internet is gradually closed down.
It’s the duty of the state to protect freedom of expression. The EU might do it. The UK won’t.
Joe
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis
Parler is a new one like gab. Ive never tried it but maybe you’ll like it better? It got a lot of attention recently
Joe
4 years ago
@Capella
The EU is at the forefront of clamping down on free speech online
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Ottomanboi 12.51pm
They can call themselves anything they like of course, but UK would seem to be pretty senseless as there would no longer be 2 kingdoms to unite surely? Similarly Great Britain wouldn’t really work, as England and Wales is only part of the island of Great Britain. Perhaps they could called themselves FUK for Former UK? 🙂
Also, you’re not really correct about it only being the Scots who become exercised about names: ask the Macedonians and Greeks!
Joe
4 years ago
If you want to secure free speech you need to secure a country and a constitution that sets it in stone. Its corporations, and their helpful international organisations, that dont want that. Thats why they want to diminish national sovereignty and erode borders
Dan
4 years ago
Andy Ellis at 12:05 pm
I would also like to see a bit more action and discussion with regard to the List Party concept.
With no disrespect intended to Martin Keatings, if he stands as an independent candidate and not as Pro-Indy Party candidate on the Mid Scotland & Fife Regional List, then the 2nd votes he receives are solely for him and not pooled for a Party which may have the potential to get more than one list MSP elected.
If another candidate stands as an independent or as an ISP candidate in the region, then it’s the same situation and the campaigning message becomes far more difficult to convey across the region with no simple unified message or the ability to pool votes.
Anybody that has been involved in running a Local Council Election campaign using the Single Transferable Vote system with the ward split into territories with “Vote X 1 and Y 2” or “Vote X 2 and Y 1” will know it is extremely difficult to obtain a balanced vote share in the hope of getting both elected, even with the back up safety net of vote transfers. That is just in one ward, never mind an entire region made up of multiple constituencies.
jfngw
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis
Maybe they could go for Unitary Kingdom of England, Wales & NI (likely just to be England soon if things continue as at present), after all it’s the pretence they like, the reality is less attractive.
It’s going to hit them hard when we can still call ourselves British if we want to (it’s a location not a nationality, just like European).
Ian Foulds
4 years ago
is the guy Mundell, without a beard? – if so you give him a chin! ?
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Andy and Ottomanboi
Will Scotland change its name too? Surely you can’t call a country Scotland, if non Scots live there? That we be offensive to people that are not Scottish by birth? Very divisive and unPC.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Jfngw
… no … we will stick with UK. Why do you care?
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@ Dan 12.05pm
I was hopeful about the prospects for a list only party before, but I’m afraid I’m less optimistic now. It’s getting awful close to Holyrood 2021. The ISP folks appear well intentioned but I’m afraid they lack charismatic leadership and their launch (which I acknowledge was impacted by Covid-19) just seemed like amateur hour.
Without folk like Joanna Cherry or Alex Salmond on board I fear the impact will be limited, and it may have no real impact if the SNP gain a majority at Holyrood on their own. If that happens we might as well accept #indyref2 isn’t happening any time soon.
Fair play to Martin Keatings on the S30 court case, but his decisions to stand as an independent looks quixotic at best. The last thing we need is multiple list only parties.
Dan
4 years ago
Hill walkers rejoice, new Monroe located!
You too can have your head in the clouds once you ascend “Peak Pete”! 🙂
Why would Scotland have to change its name because there are people from outside Scotland living here? I’d be more than happy with the Republic of Scotland.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Jfngw
“Hit them hard”???
I note your need/want/desire for us non Scots to be negatively affected by an independent Scotland. Why is that?
As I recall, the parliamentary representatives of the people of England voted by a huge majority to hold a referendum in Scotland to see if the people of Scotland wanted Independence. The majority of the people of Scotland said they didn’t.
As usual, you blame, and want to punish everyone else because the majority of voters in Scotland, for whatever reason, found your vision less attractive than the status quo.
Who knows, maybe it’s the snide, thinly veiled bigotry displayed by many against folk that just happen to live in England?
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
That’s why I gave you Unitary Kingdom, then you can keep the UK delusion, but thanks for proving my point.
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
They didn’t vote for status quo, it was Devo Max, the BBC, David Cameron (the Vow) clearly sold it as that, plus continued membership of the EU. The fact that they broke purdah and then didn’t keep the promises made makes the 2014 referendum less than authoritative.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.”
HYUFD.
That’s not strictly true, there is a mechanism in place to remove a member of the Security Council.
“The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII”
As for Trident, you’re welcome to it put on the Thames for all I care as long as its out of Scotland, which doesn’t require a seat on the council of vetos.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
“When you are allowed to…” a phrase sadly often uttered these mentally lockdowned days, one that makes you realise how primed the population has become for further suppressions of individual freedoms at the hands of ‘government’.
Some amongst us have actually enjoyed the restrictions of corona purdah and may have withdrawal symptoms. O tempora…
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
The ‘hit then hard’ is about the emotional state not the physical, I don’t particularly want a failed state next door to me, too unstable.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Info on the jackbooted Nazi racist thugs, that oppose Scottish independence through violence and intimidation, and cultural diversity in Scotland and the rUk.
For instance, you wish, post Independence, to have the rump of the current UK, minus the now independent Scotland, still referred to as: The United Kingdom
How can you have a United Kingdom after one of the two member kingdoms in the union has left?
Also, the vast representatives of the people of the rest of the UK did not vote in favour of a referendum – strictly speaking, in passing the Section 30 legislation, they agreed to abide by the decision of the Scottish people.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
Sensibledave 13:16
Could simply call Scotland by the more ancient Gaelic name or even Caledonia.
Scots aren’t a ‘race’ as such, so does it matter?
Land of the free, potentially, by any name.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Socrates
… I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
On the cartoon I take it, its to do with the Scottish Tory MPs at Westminster voting down testing for NHS staff in hospitals for the virus. Whilst Carlaw the branch manager in Scotland drones on about testing more up in Scotland, whilst bewailing about it at FMQs.
The hypocrisy of a Tory knows no bounds, brass necks indeed.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Jfngw
… I’m not sure you quite “get” the notion of Independence. If an independent UK that doesn’t include Scotland wants to call itself UK or anything else … it would have bugger all to do with you and no one would care what you thought anyway.
We appreciate your concern and advice though (it’s been filed under “don’t give a s***)!
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
” I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?”
Sensibledave.
I suppose its just common sense Dave, the United Kingdom was originally a union between Scotland and England was it not? So logically (hmmm we are dealing with Johnson so logic isn’t a prerequisite) once that union is dissolved (hopefully sooner than later) would it not be more prudent to rename it giving a more befitting title, such as the United Countries of Britain, or the United States of Britain.
UCB or USB would used in short, and a colour from the Welsh flag would replace the blue from Scotland’s Saltire in the Butchers Aporn.
jfngw
4 years ago
I noticed this tweet from James Kelly
“Not true at all – the overall composition of parliament is roughly proportional to how people vote on the list. The list ballot is therefore the more important ballot.”
This is nonsense, if the SNP win 65 constituency seats they still have 65 parliamentary seats no matter if they only gain 1% in the list vote.
I no problem with him describing a second independence party as having a risk element attached if the SNP fail to win enough constituency seats, but this is just a misrepresentation to deceive.
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
Hmm! Someone on an independence site telling us to mind our own business. Et tu, Brute.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Republicofscotland
… I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Now that Sensibledave has triggered our curiosity as to what the UK might call itself after we’ve ditched this horrendous union once and for all, one wonders what England would have other nations refer us to it, as the Welsh and NI surely wouldn’t have much of a say in what to call it.
They could just call it Britain, England & Colonies, or maybe even Britannia we’ll just have to wait and see, though hopefully it will not be too long a wait.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.”
Sensibledave.
Supposition on the new name of a new union isn’t disrespectful as for the Butchers Apron, lets not forget a colour from the Saltire is in it, and as long as that blood soaked flag flies in Scotland, and Scots live under its yoke I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
This is fun!
Independence turned on its head!
Why, if Scotland is independent, do you think me or anyone else would care what people from another country think we should be called or what flags we use?
It is another variation of a warped Stockholm Syndrome. If Scotland becomes independent because that is what the majority of folk want, then, as was demonstrated by the Westminster Parliament arranging referendum on the subject, non Scots are cool with that.
But many seem unhappy with that. They appear to want us to scream and shout and gnash our teeth! Do you remember the mass marches in al the cities across England as folk fought to keep Scotland in the UK against its will?? Errr … no … there weren’t any.
If Scotland becomes independent country then you will have the blessing of the vast majority of the people of England and we will wish you well. I can’t help feeling though, those emotions are not reciprocated by many here. Why is that?
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@RepublicofScotland
I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!
Dan
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis at 1:18 pm
Are “big player” names really required though? Yes they undoubtedly would bring something to the Party, (possibly baggage and egos…), but there are also many other lesser nationally known but highly competent “local folk” in the regions that may actually do a better job of representing their areas.
To fly the concept just requires dare I say strengthening through a semblance of unity.
I’m having chats with activists that still don’t have a handle on the voting system, nevermind the wider electorate’s capacity to comprehend it.
Keeping it straightforward using KISS acronym principles is what is required with the limited time we have available.
If covid situation creates another lockdown then that is going to restrict and influence any campaign, therefore a simple 2nd Vote for The Pro-Indy Regional List Party is the only realistic way to progress.
callmedave
4 years ago
Today’s figs: on BBC websites patchy only in Wales is a corona virus blog mentioned. Big Auntie doesn’t seem bothered now.
The SUN has all the numbers so here they are.
Scotland…….today…..*00……..Total…*2482…*SUN + BBC
N. Ireland…..today…..*01……..Total….*549…*SUN
Wales……….today…..*05……..Total…*1502…*SUN
England……..today…..*78……..Total..*28635…*SUN
========================================================
UK………….today…no data……Total..*43500…*SUN
Probably change later when WM Gov officially announce a number.
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Dan 2.35pm
I’m not saying they are the be all and end all, but it would serve to up the profile of any new indy party? I accept that it could be a double edged sword, but my view of the current situation and plans for Holyrood 2021 elections has long been that we don’t actually NEED a mass party, or to convert undecideds (which can be a long process).
A list only party (following on from analysis done by Gavin Barrie (@jammach) just needs to convince “enough” to win a decent number of seats. We’ve seen in the past that minor parties have often won list seats on 6 or 7% of the vote (Greens, SSP, Margot as an independent, the Pensioner Party).
Trouble is now, if the SNP doesn’t depend on a “sensible” list only party for its majority, it will simply sit on its hands for another decade as no-marks like Pete Wishart and his clueless supporters so amply demonstrate. It won’t help to have a dozen ISP or Wings MSPs if the SNP and Greens have a majority anyway: we’ll still be locked in to the “Gold Standard” approved S30 referendum process, self-ID and new hate speech laws.
I reckon having a personality like Salmond or Cherry declaring for a new list party must give SNP hierarchy sleepless nights. Collette Walker and Martin Keatings….not so much.
mike cassidy
4 years ago
Parler
For those who want to be Katie Hopkins’ penpal
Yet the vileness of so much of its content necessarily precludes debate because no-one seeking reasoned debate could possibly want to debate there. Who wants to have a thoughtful, sit-down discussion in a sewer?
Effigy@11.09
“Tar boiler with a wax job” is that not the name of the entertainer at the Bullingdon Club?
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Mike Cassidy 2.50pm
What’s your alternative solution though? If folk who support the likes of WoS, Glinner, JKR on the issue of women’s rights are routinely de-platformed and banned, either we accept that curtailment of free speech, come up with an alternative independent forum, or use ones which already exist.
In my experience (which appears to be echoed by others) Mastodon is little different from twitter, in that those paying for and acting as admins of “instances” will suspend anyone on the same basis as twitter on the basis that they don’t want their instance ostracised by other instance admins in their universe.
Perhaps in the end we have to take a more Voltairean view…?
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!”
Yes Andy very apt indeed, what’s interesting though is a million and one questions have been posed in here by so called unionists on what Scotland would do on this and that before and after independence on everything from currency to defence.
Yet the same so called unionists get their knickers in an almighty twist when the tables turn when we ask only one or two questions on which flag, and what will the UK call itself after Scotland escapes from the horrid union.
Unsurprisingly we are met with, keep your nose out of it, its none of your business, Oh if only the so called unionists followed their own advice.
susan
4 years ago
Personally I will vote for any pro independence, anti GRA party that stands in my area. Anyone know Fergus Ewing’s stance on GRA? x
Capella
4 years ago
What Twitter illustrates is that a public network is a natural monopoly. Like railways, roads and telecoms, you can only realistically have one provider. For that reason it should be a state provider or at least so regulated that it might as well be.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Republicofscotlnd 2.26
You wrote ” I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.”
Indeed you will and you have.
… and I will think that you are a very disrepectful t**t if I want to. … Free country and all that.
You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.
As a mature grown up though, I understand the workings of an under developed brain. I have children. They also think the world revolves aound them and their views and that anyone that disagrees them are unworthy.
In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of …whilst I didn’t) and everyone smiles at the cleverness of it all.
Here’s the news. Other than your little gang … the rest of us think you are just jerks. Narcisstic, brainless jerks.
Wanting Idependence, I would have thought, would be all about the positives … where the country could go, what it could become, what it should stand for, its morals, its ethics, etc
What I see though is obsession with the faults of the “others”, their history, their heroes, their darker times, failures, etc. You feel they need to negatively characterise them because of their country of birth. You want to insult their systems, institutions and symbols.
… and you struggle to understand why the people of Scotland are not all lined up behind you?
Capella
4 years ago
Joanna Cherry is hoping to represent Edinburgh Central? for the SNP. She is unlikely to stand for another party unless there’s some drastic upheaval. Alex Salmond, on the other hand, is not currently a member of the SNP.
Robertknight
4 years ago
The existing United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland should, under the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927, have reverted to the “Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”. The term “United Kingdom,” as opposed to “united Kingdom,” followed the Act of Union between the Kingdom of Great Britain and Kingdom of Ireland, therefore the term “United” should have been dropped under the 1927 Act. Furthermore, the Saltire of St Patrick should have been removed from the Union Flag and the Harp of Ireland removed from the Royal Coat of Arms.
None of that happened on the grounds of cost – some penny pinchers in Whitehall decided that to change the flags and coats of arms in addition to stationary etc. etc. etc. would be astronomical, therefore despite only Kingdoms having been represented on flags and coats of arms until this time, (Wales never featuring – being only a Principality, and one which through conquest found itself absorbed within a Kingdom), it was decided simply to modify the name, (Ireland modified to Northern Ireland), and the Saltire of St Patrick and Harp of Ireland would be retained to represent N.Ireland – despite it being a (British) Province on the island of Ireland and NOT a Kingdom as in the case of England, Scotland and the former Kingdom of Ireland.
The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. (The royal arms, both versions used in Scotland and elsewhere, have been quartered since 1603 to reflect the Union of Scottish and English crowns and would be unaffected by the reappearance of an independent Kingdom of Scotland).
But again, cost will likely result in no changes being made to titles, flags etc. so the rUK title and flag will likely remain unaltered following the reappearance of the Kingdom of Scotland. (The Scottish version of the Union Flag could technically be flown from a jack staff of any SDF Naval vessel if the monarch of the day requested such – the flag, in both Scottish and English forms, as with the royal coat of arms, predates the 1707 Act of Union by over a century).
So money, as opposed to the conventions of heraldry, styles and titles, will ultimately decide – as has already been shown when the majority of the former Kingdom of Ireland seceded from, (you could argue ‘dissolved‘), the UK, what changes should have taken place did not purely on the grounds of cost.
Iain More
4 years ago
I have a spare tin since I don’t have any brass in the house.
willie
4 years ago
Capella @12.06
Your comments about both the Scottish Government and the Glasgow City Council having raised their concerns about the treatment, indeed the basic humanity being shown to immigrants shows us what type of country we have become.
A country where human beings can be denied decency, denied medical support so often needed by fragile people who have had their lives turned upside down.
Lock down in a fucking hotel room, denied the princely sum of £5.30 a day, the private company exacting the hostile environment on behalf of the Home Office did their dirty work in plain view.
To the gas chambers they could be marched and save for a few well intentioned politicos who raised the issue, this disgrace was done in our name.
Done as we stood by, I fear that we are no different from the scum who implemented this policy, this hostile environment. If death camps make money, then caring Jock is happy to oblige. Right in the centre of Glasgow, but not just in Glasgow.
And has there been a cheep from Nicola Sturgeon. No, has there fuck. Posing as the Gaultier I expect little from her and her ilk who have infested the party.
Sorry for being so negative. I don’t wish to be. But as the details emerge of how these people were treated, and the horror of this event where people were left having had an eye ripped out or their guts ripped open crying for their mothers, I don’t think I can stomach wee Nicola’s silence.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Robert Knight
You wrote “The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. ”
Well thanks for that Robert. You will forgive me for saying, that in actuality, it will be absolutely nothing to do with you!
There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it. As a Sovereign nation we will do what we please, and, with the greatest respect, really not an issue that you should be troubling yoursef over – let alone seeking to interfere in.
brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.
Gary45%
4 years ago
Sensible@3.51
Call yourselves “Ironyland” although that would be lost on
your populace.
Joe
4 years ago
Dawned on me today. Bank of England rainbow flag, rainbow flags from corporations, covid19 rainbow flag, rainbow flag on certain political groups.
No its not about being nice to LGBT.
We are experiencing a colour revolution.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Tories don’t really need brass necks to enable them to project their ideological opposition to the justice of the Natural Law tradition, as some sort of moral virtue.
In individual’s political outlook is a product of their biosocial nature. Tories tend to be genetically predisposed to oppose the principle of equality in law, and to support the belief that social inequality is natural. So Tories are simply bio-neurologically predisposed to support social injustice. Subsequently, the Tory mindset is drawn to support BritNat.
‘Participants in the colour revolutions have mostly used nonviolent resistance, also called civil resistance[citation needed]. Such methods as demonstrations, strikes and interventions have been intended protest against governments seen as corrupt and/or authoritarian and to advocate democracy and they have also created strong pressure for change.’
‘The colour revolutions are notable for the important role of non-governmental organisations (NGOs)’
‘In most but not all cases, massive street protests followed disputed elections or requests for fair elections and led to the resignation or overthrow of leaders considered by their opponents to be authoritarian’
‘Government figures in Russia, such as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, have claimed that colour revolutions are externally fuelled acts with a clear goal to influence the internal affairs that destabilise the economy,[2] conflict with the law and represent a new form of warfare.’
These NGO’s, corporations and international financiers – do they want this to make your life better? Or is it for greater control? Are the SNP giving us a glimpse of what the future might be like in the West if this succeeds?
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
I quite fancy Scotland retaining the name UK, it’s up to us what we call ourselves, what’s going to happen when both countries want the same name. I suspect those from England think they own it, but they don’t.
Joe
4 years ago
ARE CURRENT EVENTS REALLY ABOUT YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY AND THE WELL BEING OF ETHNIC MINORITIES?
OR ARE YOU BEING TURNED INTO A VASSAL IN A CORPORATE POWER GRAB?
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Gary45%
… and there you go again Gary!
Another pop at the “populace” of another country.
Perhaps, instead of a negatively characterising millions of ordinary folk who have never done anything to you and instead of negatively portraying the country, its politics, its institutions, its symbols, etc, …. you might try and pursuade people in your own country of how atractive your vision for the future you see for Scotland?
Its not working Gary, and whilst it really isnt anything to do with me, I understand why you are struggling to get the support you require.
I observe, in actuality, your mission is getting harder.
Now, not only do you not offer any positive vision for an Independent Scotland, not only do you constantly insult and abuse folk that happen to live in another country who, in the main, are neutral on the subject of Scottish Independence – you now insult and abuse other pro indy supporters in Scotland that may hold different political views to you on non Independence matters.
Its not looking good Gary. You really need a better plan, your current approach has failed spectacularly .. but you carry on!
You know what they say about keeping on doing the same thing and expecting different results?
Dan
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis at 2,48pm
Yep, what you say was touched on a few weeks back in previous discussion on the matter.
IIRC there was a suggestion of targeting a few constituency seats as that might focus some minds and tighten some sphincters if a threat to the presumed inevitability of an SNP majority arose.
We’ve seen with Neil Hanvey in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath in last GE that being suspending by the SNP a week before the election did not stop the activists or the electorate voting for him. Maybe that’s a small sign the electorate are receptive to alternatives.
I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.
The BritNats and the extreme right appear to be blending into a single, definable, threat to Scotland’s democracy. It was bound to happen, as Brexitania is not a social democracy.
Nurs Philos. 2006 Jan;7(1):45-57.
Critical Realism as Emancipatory Action: The Case for Realistic Evaluation in Practice Development
Abstract
To provide rigour when preparing a research design, the researcher needs to carefully consider not only the methodology but also the philosophical intent of the study. This, however, is often absent from reported research and provides the reader with little evidence by which to judge the merits of the chosen methodology and its influence on the study.
The purpose of this paper is to set out the case for critical realism as a framework to guide appropriate action in practice development and realistic evaluation for understanding the consequences of those actions. It is evident that critical realism and critical social science share common ground. Emancipatory practice development (ePD) is based on the philosophy of critical social science and therefore by virtue is linked to the tenets of critical realism.
Until now, the evaluation of ePD programme has been well served by 4th-generation evaluation. However, this paper outlines the need for a different approach to evaluation, one that is based on critical realism, that is concerned with emancipation, and that can be used in the ever-changing environment of clinical practice. Realistic evaluation not only links strongly to ePD programmes, but also serves as the basis for effective research questions that will test the outcomes of the research and inform the transferability of ePD mechanisms into differing contexts.
I don’t think there’s much mileage in the theory that post brexit Engerlund is a shining exemplar of the rule of law or of anything else most of us would want to emulate. Rather the British nationalist project, like Trumps America and Putin’s Russia is rapidly descending into the kind of dystopia Timothy Snyder described in his book “The Road to Unfreedom”.
The Better Together camp and brexiteers of course learned much from Putin. Like Trump’s MAGA project they share the same regressive weltanschauung and desire to protect the current status quo at all costs. British nationalists, like their American and Russian counterparts are just too dim to see that the oligarchs have them exactly where they want them.
I fear it’s too late for rump UK: it is en route to being a hellish offshore low rent European Singapore. Fortunately Scotland has an “out”: the biggest question is whether Scots have the political balls to vote for it.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.”
And you Sir (Sensibledave) are an ass if you believe, Scots and Scotland havent been disrespected for centuries by Westminster.
This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence, Alex Salmond, and Scots folk in general, only six years ago.
For those unable to see why nursing practice relates to the debate, it doesn’t, much, though it does provide an excellent referee to support a critical realist approach to social emancipation.
callmedave
4 years ago
There have been a few deaths added since 14:00hrs
Official count now.
Scotland…….today……00……..Total….2482
N. Ireland…..today……01……..Total…..549
Wales……….today……05……..Total….1502
England……..today…..*78……..Total..*28635…*SUN
========================================================
UK………….today…..100……..Total…43514
Note: No separate figs for England on any BBC web site but the SUN publishes them.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Ireland’s new Taoiseach Micheal Martin speaks favourably of an independent Scotland, no doubt this will upset our colonial masters South of the border.
“I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.”
jfngw.
Theres an excellent long letter in the National newspaper today by a Mr Bruce, who rightly points out that the very unlikely event that Johnson agrees to a S30 order, that it will carry a plethora of very stringent caveats, that no SNP government could ever accept, and as the longest serving SNP MP in the House of Commons Pete Wishart must surely know that.
One has to wonder why Wishart won’t even consider a Plan B.
Joe
4 years ago
@Andy Ellis
I’ll take my chances with the Trump or Brexit crowd any day over the kind of politics coming out of Holyrood or the kind of cognative dissonance shown by people who continue to support the SNP while slavering incoherently about the choices other people have made.
Capella
4 years ago
Scot Finlayson 3:52 brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.
Appropriate for a used car salesman then? 🙂
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
As if supporting the far-right would help Scotland in any way. Right-wing populists support authoritarian racism (see Brexit).
@ willie 3.47 – immigration is a reserved matter, refugees are a reserved matter, social security is a reserved matter. The only way Nicola Sturgeon and Glasgow City Council can deal effectively with these issues is if people vote for Scotland to be an independent country.
bittie45
4 years ago
Question Time R4 Today 1:10 on Sat 27th May, 2020.
Discussing INDEPENDENCE DAY in England on 4th July. Now that’s funny!
Amazed by Andy Burnham’s comments about 5 minutes in – he wished that England could have Scotland’s clarity of message with regard to COVID19!!!
Sadly we won’t hear his comments reported by BBC Shortbread though.
robbo
4 years ago
No wan talking to that Joe lol
Result
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
Get a life! I say to such posters.
jfngw
4 years ago
@robbo
I was going to but then my cognitive dissonance (correct spelling) kicked in.
Joe
4 years ago
No worries Robbo.
Your Dear Leader will make sure you can get that form filled and signed so you can get your kit off and into a shower with a nice wee lassie and be protected from ‘hate speech’ while doing so.
Thank god we aren’t living under any of those bigots who aren’t letting that kind of thing happen. Eh?
Joe
4 years ago
@jfngw
Thanks. I knew you had to be good for something. If you ever want to point out anything else you know you can feel free. Right?
Until then im happy to have you as a kind of proof reader.
Cheers
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Ottomanboi
I suggest you get some perspective. 😉
Science in Lockdown: the effects of COVID-19 on research and researchers link to royalsociety.org
Joe
4 years ago
So who else here is voting for the Dear Leader because they want to use the GRA and hate speech laws to get in close and personal with the ladies or wee lassies?
Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution than the Scottish Government currently is and much fairer than any of you give them credit for.
Come on. This is the brave new Scotland where anything goes. You can be honest about it without judgment. Come out of the closet. Its 2020. Your voting for the personal access to females aren’t you?
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Joe 5.06pm
That’s fair enough, but very much a minority view in Scotland, although admittedly much of the lumpen proletariat in Engerlund has fallen for the politics of the oligarchs and chosen the wrong side in every one of the major choices of equality or oligarchy, individuality or totality, truth and falsehood.
The authoritarianism of Putin and his creature Trump will of course be entirely palatable to those behind Boris.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“Ottomanboi says:
27 June, 2020 at 5:24 pm
I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
Get a life! I say to such posters”
Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.
Andy Ellis
4 years ago
@Ottomanboi
I too have a wide circle of friends. Thankfully nobody close to me has had any serious Covid-19 symptoms. I do know of many who have had symptoms, or had mild cases. One of my daughter’s close friends aged 25 died of Covid due to a compromised immune system resulting from cancer treatment.
Your subjective lack of experience, and apparently lack of empathy, is not a good yardstick by which to measure our responses to this pandemic.
Dan
4 years ago
@Joe at 5:32 & 5.45 pm
Read the fuckin’ room, you’re commenting on a site where most are trying to address the issues you highlight.
While you’re on the line caller, do you have any, ANY issues with UK Parliament in Westminster coz previously you said the leadership was shit?
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution”
Joe.
If is a very big word, there’s not a snowballs chance in hell of Westminster offering a referendum on Scottish independence.
Just as there’s no chance of the Chagossian people ever getting back home due to Westminster breaching International law.
Sensibledave
4 years ago
RepublicofScotland
You wrote “This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence”
No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.
There are people in both England and Scotland that are unsavoury types. They may be despicable because of their views on race, religion, whatever … but to suggest that somehow they represent a nation is the skullduggery of the pathetic and inept.
If you like, I could copy and paste a few of the more loony comments from previous threads here and present them as being an example of a average Scot? Would that be Ok? Would it be correct?
Even you are not that dumb.
Why not just accept that ordinary folk in England are just the same as ordinary folk elsewhere and leave it at that.
Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.
In developed, civilised western society, the type of politics you peddle (based upon hatred and difference) will make not get traction. Yes there will be extremists that that will gather round some ridiculous ideology .. but it will always be fringe.
Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.
Joe
4 years ago
@Dan
Can’t someone hold the position that WM and Holyrood are currently total shit? Being a Scottish Nationalist (hanging in there) Holyrood is the one im watching the most. Ive already given up on WM. Further I didn’t expect to need to point out WM bullshit on the premier Scottish Independence blog. WOS does a fantastic job of it.
@Andy Ellis
Yes, definitely a minority view. Wait until certain legislation gets in and the penny drops with the electorate. The sentiments I expressed will start to increase in the population exponentially. SNP supporters at that point will be like the National Socialists who voted for the economic policies while turning a blind eye to all the icky other stuff.
Joe
4 years ago
@RepublicofScotland
‘Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.’
Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?
When you writing a novel?
Joe
4 years ago
@Sensibledave
Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.
That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
“Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.”
As if dave isn’t culturally-constrained in his cognitive and ethical capabilities. 🙂
Requirements of Democracy
Chapter 34
The Psychological Underpinnings
of Political Behavior link to pprg.stanford.edu
Willie
4 years ago
Capella @ 5.18pm
I couldn’t agree more with your comments. Immigration is indeed a reserved matter and this tragedy further reinforces why we need independence.
But I have anger at Nicola Sturgeon. As First Minister she should condemn and condemn absolutely the inhuman treatment that Westminster imposes on refugees through its hostile environment and its private contractors who like camp guards implement the most inhuman of policies to people, many of whom will have fled the most harrowing of circumstances.
Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland. By not commenting, by not decrying what has been happening here in a Scotland, she consigns herself to nothing less than Westminster’s Gaultier General.
The Park Hotel was a lockdown camp. A camp every much a camp as those in 1930s Poland and elsewhere. Friday was a butcher shop. Something that will forever remain scarred into all those
who experienced the tragedy.
Yes Capella, it is a Westminster reserved power, but unlike the Vichy French, i do not want to look away, and neither should Nicola Sturgeon.
ALANM
4 years ago
“Nicola Sturgeon gives indicative dates for pubs and hairdressers to re-open” – Evening Times 24/06/20
Just one question – when are we going to get an indicative date for the next independence referendum?
bipod
4 years ago
Yes it would be nice if people on here did try to acquire some perspective. The empirical data shows us that people of working age are no more likely to die from this than the flu and even less for children but that doesn’t stop the covid busybody, doom-mongers on here from comparing this to the bubonic plague.
Professor Neil Ferguson told us that without a lockdown 500,000 people would die here by now (still often repeated by dithering nicola and boris johnson). But 500,000 people world wide haven’t died yet, the statistics are not dissimilar from the by yearly flu outbreak. According to the doom-mongers many millions of people should be dead by now in countries that didn’t lockdown or couldn’t lockdown.
The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.
Gary45%
4 years ago
Sensible@4.25
Wow, did you think that up on your own?
A positive vision for an Independent Scotland, probably 95% the opposite of the current situation under Westminster rule.
Apologies for the late reply, just been out having a wee 5pm cocktail, beer, wine gathering with the neighbours.
Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.
My vision for an Indy Scotland has been posted over the years.
Try again Son.
jfngw
4 years ago
I see the covid stats are going the same way as GERS, they hide the England total in the UK total, just like they hide spending in England in the UK total and tell Scotland how bad it is performing.
Graeme
4 years ago
@Sensibledave
“In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of”
——————————————————————
When are you gonna get it through your thick fucking skull that Scots did not not vote to remain in the UK, Scots voted for independence it was your people that swung the vote against us and the reason we refer to your blessed union flag as the butchers apron is that it’s a symbol of murder,rape & genocide on a scale that makes Nazi Germany look like a teddy bears picnic, just ask the native Tazmanians oh sorry you can’t do that can you Dave there’s none left yes there were Scots involved the Alistair Jacks of the day but they’re your people Dave not ours now fuck off
Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.
That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.
I say
I second that, third it , fourth it….Too many from the far left angry brigade corrupting the SNP. As per if we only paid Asylum seekers more money and gave them better conditions that maniac wouldn’t have stabbed and killed and it’s all England’s fault.. bla bla bla. Irresponsible soft and naive rubbish. Unfortunately the SNP becoming a vehicle for the Corbyn fellow travelers.
Dan
4 years ago
@Joe at 6:02 pm
You may hold that position but it could be conceived by some as being a little extreme as our society still functions to most intents and purposes.
Having spent time in Romania just after Ceausescu “left the building” (which was bloody huge by the way) I’ve seen first hand what a really shit State looks like when failed by their Government.
Orphanages filled with abandoned boys, many so damaged they sat unresponsive rocking in their own piss, meal times were a joy as we ate a watery “stew” made with a boiled bone and fat with some donated damaged vegetables thrown in.
I don’t think we are quite there yet…
Don’t get me wrong, there is certainly a degree of political shit wafting aboot, but that is what we are trying to address.
You’ve stated you are a democrat, or at least expressed concerns that it is being undermined. Therefore I would hope that rather than ranting (which we all like to do at times) about single issues which most on here are aware exist only through the dark actions of the big corporates to be used as a divide and rule tool, you sit down round the table and agree a plan to fix the issues you and many others see.
“The great thing in this world is not so much where you stand, as in what direction you are moving.”
Sensibledave
4 years ago
Gary
You wrote “Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.”
… what is your point Gary? Is it pehaps that the vast majority of folk engage in inclusive social interactivity without a second thought about the sort of divisive s**t that you engage in here on Wings? If it is, I agree.
BTW, if you can think of country and and capital city that has greater degree of immigration, diversity, inclusiveness and lack of trouble … as mine. Then let me know.
It certainly isn’t Scotland!
Together with the likes of RoS, you choose to highlight the negative occurances of the few – and present them as representitive of the many.
Why do you do that?
Last time I was in Glasgow late at night, about a year ago, it was a very scary place. There were drunks, fights and sectarian s**t kicking off too. There was open aggressive reaction to my accent in one bar. Is it fair, or correct in any way, for me to then project experience as encompassing the characteristics of the average Scot?
Willie
Poland in the 1930s ? Are you serious? This is the most nutty outburst I’ve heard for a long time.
You make the far left look moderate.
As the Tories say : keep them on the same page and watch the votes come our way.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
“The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.”
As no evidence is supplied to support this opinion, I’m happy to consider this perspective to be unsubstantiated denial that a respect for public health ethics is even more necessary during a pandemic.
Ethical and Legal Considerations in Mitigating Pandemic Disease: Workshop Summary.
4 Ethical Issues in Pandemic Planning and Response link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Apparently, dave considers a patriotic desire to defend one’s civic society from the right-wing populism of another nation, to be divisive. That’s because dave is here to punt British nationalism, which is now virtually indistinguishable from right-wing, populist, racism.
schrodingers cat
4 years ago
31st june, what does it actually mean? what happens or is meant to happen?
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
That must have been one heck of a night, sectarianism, bigotry and unbridled violence. Hope you were OK once you woke up.
Used car salesmen/women are the same as Tory politicians,
they will be your best friend,promise you everything just to get that sale/vote,
after the sale/election you never see them, you will never get a call back if you need anything,
until 4/5 years later when you need a new car or another election then they are again your best friend and will promise you everything and anything,
strangely enough thousands of citizens fall for their bullsh@t every time.
Joe
4 years ago
@Dan
My wife is from a similar country. She got milk twice a week and her doll was a charitable gift from America. Communism is great isnt it?
However i don’t see how that relates? I know we live in a great country relative to others – that’s why I left the EU.
You do realise that under the SNP women will lose their rights to private spaces free from biological males WHILE under the pressure of potentially being jailed by hate speech laws if they cause offense?
You might not care that much. You might not see it as an issue.
But here are 3 things that dont care about your opinion:
1 – most of the electorate are going to lash back against this if it gets implemented and it will be ugly because most dont even realise whats going on yet
2 – you wont get your referendum
3 – those policies are only the beginning.
Now, forgive me for my lack of patience, while I repeat what ive been saying for a few years now:
The only plan of action for a voter under these circumstances is TO REFUSE TO VOTE FOR A PARTY THAT WISHES TO IMPLEMENT THESE FUCKING policies.
But here is the thing that makes me detest many on this board – while people are casting a blind eye to this and going forward and ‘lending the SNP their vote’ they have the temerity, the arrogance, the sheer lack of self reflection, to look down on others for voting for things like Brexit or for Trump.
Its jaw dropping.
jfngw
4 years ago
@schrodingers cat
31st june, what does it actually mean?
You’ve invented a new calendar?
Sensibledave
4 years ago
jnfgw
… so, after the comments I have been involved in, and the nature of the outpourings of ridiculousness from Gary and RoS, your input is to doubt my word. Is it ’cause I is English?
So that’s you, Gary, RoS are joint winners of today’s bigot of the day award. You have even outdone the usual winner old “pseudo” himself.
jfngw
4 years ago
@sensibledave
Quack.
Pete
4 years ago
Regarding the incident in Glasgow yesterday, most ordinary folks I know didn’t realise just how many refugees and asylum seekers we have.
The general reaction is – what the f..ck!
For someone who has supposedly been persecuted to within their life to be complaining about food, wifi and hotel accommodation beggars belief.
Sorry, the sooner we shut the door, the better.
Robert graham
4 years ago
I had the stupidity to look at Nicola Sturgeons Twater feed by Christ they are a lot of fkn nutters out there , all the blame for the events in Glasgow are her fault , yep just her all on her own she caused the whole bloody mess , I give up I honestly thought we had a small minority of nutters but Christ on a bike they are all over the place spewing venom and bile .
Ok listen up fkrs ,
Nicola Sturgeon does not control immigration , got that ? its fkn simple Pretty face in the English home office controls movement of people in and out of this island , Not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon
The first thing Nicola needs to do in the next daily news update is make sure these arse wipes understand we don’t control Who enters or leaves the country the English Home Office does
Unfortunately Nicola set herself up for a fall on this one , she has no say in who arrives here ,when they do she has no say in how they are treated by the English government , but as usual the English governments mistakes all of a sudden become the SNPs fault when it goes tits up ,
Nicola you need to let these dummies know where the blame lies and it’s at Westmonsters front fkn door
Pete
4 years ago
Rober Graham
I think you’ll find that the SG volunteered to take in a disproportionate number of these people.
Quite a few areas within the UK refused, quite correctly in my opinion.
Now that Stamner is cracking down I can see the Corbynistas seeing their natural home up north in the SNP. They’d be most welcome in such congenial company.
Hardly need to worry as Independence is being substituted for wokery and they can use their well honed skills to make the SNP just as unelectable as the party they nearly destroyed.
Robert graham
4 years ago
Oh fk
Listen up Pete
We don’t control immigration , got it WE DONT CONTROL Immigration , has it sunk in yet ?
THE ENGLISH GOVERNMENT CONTROL IMMIGRATION
Are you fkn listening ?
Say it after me we don’t control immigration it’s really easy to get the hang of it , well easy for most
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?
When you writing a novel?”
Joe.
60,00 plus dead from the virus and you’re making light of it
Wow!, just wow! What a dick.
Joe
4 years ago
@Pete
And the ugly truth is that many come from parts of the world where males are indoctrinated into believing women are 2nd class people and no better than possessions and see our free society as against their morality.
But shhhh…dont tell the folk on here. It will upset them and they will call you a bigot until its far too late. Just like with everything else. Their fantasies are more important than other peoples lived realities.
No Robert Graham she cannot virtue signal enough about welcoming asylum seekers and opening our borders .She’d rather march to that tune than any Independence one
Joe
4 years ago
@RepublicofScotland
No. Im making fun of you. But its true, I am indeed a dick.
Joe
4 years ago
Just a thought for people to consider:
See this BLM rioting and the demands for white folk to apologise, and the ‘erasing white people from history’ stuff?
What happens if you fill a country like ours up with poor immigrants, whose own country the elite and their rich mates have destroyed, keep them on benefit and tell them ordinary white British folk (or even European) are the reason for their woes, just like BLM are doing?
You’d have a rabid dog to unleash at will with only the maintenance of a police state to keep the peace.
Dan
4 years ago
@Joe
I’m not getting into a laborious repetitive cycle of what we’ve already said.
You’ve been hanging out on here long enough to have read the very real concerns most on here have expressed with regard to Self ID.
We are well aware of its divisive nature and the progression of the Hate Speech Bill as an attempt to silence opposition to it.
We are also well aware of the wider implications focusing on those particular policies at this particular time brings.
I asked that you read the room.
Don’t be like Sue. link to twitter.com
In case you hadn’t noticed, growing inequality, collapsing industries, strain on our health and social services don’t just happen under communism.
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
“No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.”
Sensibledave.
Apparently the comments say differently, you’d be surprised what commentors will say behind their keyboards of anonymity.
Take Joe’s 6.05pm comment for instance, which is on the verge of mocking the dead.
“Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.”
I didn’t say for one minute that English folk are uniquely horrible did I? But lets no pretend that ordinary folk don’t post distasteful comments from time to time they do.
ALANM
4 years ago
@Robert Graham 7:20 pm
All the nutters I’ve seen on twitter are blaming wee Jimmy Crankie. That’s two insults for the price of one. Nicola just laps it up.
jfngw
4 years ago
There is no point replying to Joe, sensibledave or Pete, they are here to gaslight, not debate. Now we have someone who is a Stanley Baxter fan (probably watched Parliamo Glasgow or came across it online).
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@jfngw,
Jim Baxter 1967, Rangers, keepy happy at Wembley.
Mmmm!
Bob Mack
4 years ago
Keepy uppy .
Gary45%
4 years ago
Sensible@7.03
Awe didums, I wondered how long it would take for the old chestnut,”Anti-English”,
is that the best you can come up with? seriously is that your take on the situation?
My comment on Westminster, is a comment on Westminster, the last time I looked Westminster rule covers this sorry excuse of an Island, so to say an Indy Scotland would be 95% the opposite of Westminster, is not Anti-English, if you think that is what I am referring to? there lies “your” problem.
Try again, this is a good laugh.
Capella
4 years ago
Nicola Sturgeon statemnt on the Glasgow incident:
Clearly there is already much speculation around this incident, which remains under investigation.
“I would urge everyone to avoid such speculation, to not share potentially harmful or upsetting material on social media and to follow police advice while investigations are underway
“ There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it.”
Of course there is … What do you think Westminster was doing all the time the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act (1927) was going through both houses? Watching daytime TV?
It’s pretty straight forward really…
*Kingdom of Scotland (843)
*Kingdom of England (927)
*Kingdom of Ireland (1542)
*Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)
*Kingdom of Great Britain + Kingdom of Ireland = United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland (1801)
*United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland – Kingdom of Ireland = (United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (1921. Formalised 1927)
*(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland (2021?)
*Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of England (2030?)
Would you still call “Tomato & Vegetable Soup” without the veg “Tomato & Vegetable Soup”? Or would it be more accurate, nay logical, to call it “Tomato Soup”? Or because you recon it’s up to nobody else, you can go and call it “Tomato, Vegetable & Basil Soup” and if someone points out there’s no vegetable or basil, you can tell them to eff’off because it’s none of their business? So very exceptional of you!
Gary45%
4 years ago
BobMack@7.49
I think Keepy Happy sums it up better, Scotland pumped the “so called” World Champions, by playing keepy uppy.
Watch out I’ll be accused of hurting the feelings of some on here and being called “Anti-English”, Nothing could be further from the truth, but I’ll keep the fun rolling.
jfngw
4 years ago
@Bob Mack
I know, I was having a laugh. I was waiting for the True Blue correction (I’m pretty sure Baxter1967 won’t be a Celtic fan).
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Right-wing populism does have it’s supporter, but they tend to be Tories, UKIPers, BNP, England/Scotland First, Brexiteers, and general supporters of authoritarian racism.
Scotland is desperate for immigrants, who provide a positive effect on the economy, but immigration is a reserved matter. Some appear to want empathy and human compassion to be controlled from Westminster, as well. Just look at the state of these morally bankrupt troopers of British nationalism
Joe
4 years ago
@Dan
Unfortunately Dan there are just a few regular commenters here that I have seen solidly express the will to ‘not vote for the SNP under these circumstances’.
Its all about lending them a vote or trying to convince them out of it, or lighten the content etc.
However if the line is not drawn in the sand it doesnt matter.
Besides the Wingers here are actually the more grounded and realistic of the indy movement – to the point that Stuart Campbell himself is not exactly loved despite his immense contributions. Which is actually frightening to behold for anyone not in the bubble.
The fact is Dan, this club of dreamy eyed EU nationalists are going to have to get hurt before they learn. At that point it might just be possible to express an opinion outside of a very narrowly accepted window of debate and it actually not be sneered at. Unfortunately everyone else will get hurt with them.
Joe
4 years ago
@RepublicofScotland
I was laughing at you. You are much funnier than dead people. Even if you sit them around in funny positions with silly hats on.
Bob Mack: Scotland fan. Don’t support either side of the Sectarian United. I’ll leave you to your prejudices and bias confirmation through the green/ blue world you inhabit.
Robert graham
4 years ago
It’s just a coincidence that all the right wing nut jobs seem to be repeating the same message and photo of Nicola holding up a We Welcome Refugees poster .
Now if I was suspicious I might think the English government had a hand in events over the past three weeks , it would be easy , treat the asylum seekers like shit , toss them out of their flats , change the locks , take away any benefits on the pretence that they are being fed so they don’t need any money, then don’t have any checks as to the phycological state they are in , most of them have probably come from war zones so feel vulnerable , allow right wing nutters to protest unhindered, so racking up the temperature, light the match and stand back, Job Done .
Thanks Tory government but your so transparent it’s laughable , what isn’t fkn Laughable is Scottish people are in the firing line now that ain’t in any way fkn funny , b@*trds every one .
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
I hope folk are noticing how Joe is trying to position himself as being liberal and rational, despite his obvious predjudices. The same applies to dave.
National Past and Populism: The Re-Elaboration of Fascism and Its Impact on Right-Wing Populism in Western Europe link to mtr.cool
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@Robert Graham,
You called it just as it is. Chapeau!
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@Baxter 1967,
I thought for a minute you were a soup connoisseur.The 67 pea and ham was superb
Joe
4 years ago
@Robert Graham
Solid thinking. Id expand it though. There is a reason the corporate world want open borders and it aint for the health of poor people from destroyed countries or even just for cheap labour.
Because the cancel culture/ Marxist cultural politics drives people to the right.
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@Baxter1967,
You appear rattled. I bid you goodnight. Enjoy your soup.
jfngw
4 years ago
@Bob Mack
I think it’s duck soup here tonight.
Pete
4 years ago
Robert Graham
You are correct that immigration is controlled by the UK government.
However, these people are not legal immigrants but refugees or asylum seekers which all countries sign up to under UN legislation.
Scotland and Glasgow in particular asked for a large number of those people to be sent here presumably for a payment and also to reinforce the caring nature of Scots.
This was not well publicised and it is only now that your normal hard working socially conservative Scots person is realising what has been signed up to in their name and they are not happy.
Most folks I know are saying – get them to f..k.
Gary45%
4 years ago
Baxter678.27
I am a Celtic fan, have been since a boy, I have a Jim Baxter video in the house, the man was a footballing genius.
Ability over the divide.
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@jfngw,
I was thinking Keystone cops myself. They are just as jnept.
Good night too and enjoy your group think bubble. Try speaking to real folk for a change
Bob Mack
4 years ago
@Gary45%,
Jim Baxter had no divide himself. Friends with many on all sides of Scotland’s various divisions.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Suggesting that hostility to right-wing populism signifies the support of cultural Marxism, indicates you don’t know what you’re talking about. A support for multi-cultural tolerance is simply an opposition to structural racism, and resistance against authoritarian racism.
Scottish ‘nationalism’ is supportive of multi-cultural tolerance. English/British nationalism, not so much (see Brexit).
callmedave
4 years ago
I knew J. Baxter when I was young he was about seven years older than me both born in Hill of Beath we ‘clipped’ for sides in the ‘Haws’ park on many a Sunday afternoon played the short side across the park jackets for the goals. Just a broken down steel rope with a tar covering round the pitch then held up by short posts.
Full of fun and nonsense, dribbled round us often for fun, he was one the older ones late teens by then or into the early twenties but we got a game at twelve and thirteen as I was then. No quarter given, tough times for us few ‘budding’ younger players.
Raith Rovers would not be too happy to know about his Sunday football but seemed a good bloke to me then and had a few regular friends there from going through the local school which was right next to the park. Bought a pub ‘Silver Birch’ I think on the edge of Hill of Beath and Cowdenbeath, I used to drink in it way back then. Bookies in an old shack round the back. 🙂
Happy days!
Haw’s = Hill of Beath Hawthorn’ Juvenile team then now Juniors’
We’re only having this discussion because someone chose to play the man not the ball and had a go at my irrelevant nome de plume, not politics. Then presupposing I support a certain team because he typecasts people which is a classic identity politics trait. But anyway since you mention it aye slim Jim best Scottish player ever apart from Law.
Sinky
4 years ago
Brit Nat propaganda on TV never fails to amaze me. Keen to rubbish Brazil and USA on Covid deaths but fail to mention that in last seven days average confirmed daily death toll in England is 150 compared to 5 in Scotland. They hide England’s much worse stats be referring to Uk deaths when there are four health services taking their own decisions.
Why does Scotland’s media fall in line when it is obvious that unless we close our borders and impose quarantine for travellers from hotshots like England all our good work will be undone.
Chang Sha
4 years ago
@RobertKnight 7:56
Could I make a minor adjustment to your very precise {& correct} naming of the political entities in these islands over the years
*(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (2021?)
*Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of Great Britain (2030?) or KGB for short
robbo
4 years ago
“Aye slim Jim best scottish player ever apart from Law”
Take it Jinky J and King Kenny never existed then ? Behave baxter
Sinky
4 years ago
I have no time for The Rangers or Celtic but agree that Law and Baxter are the best Scottish footballers in my lifetime
jfngw
4 years ago
@Gery45%
Baxter was a good player but many other Scottish players achieved much more than him. He had a fairly short time at his peak, he never seemed to regain this after he broke his leg (I hope my memory is correct here, it’s over 50 years ago).
@Baxter1967
I don’t know why you are having a go at Bob Mack it was me that started this using Stanley Baxter. I tend to find it suspicious when someone turns up to tell me SNP supporters are anti-English, I’m half English, most of my relatives are English, so your definition is either fake or you are uninformed.
Alex Ferguson rated Law the best ever just saying. Dalgleish goal at Wembley in 77 and the pitch invasion my favourite Scotland memory
Shug
4 years ago
I can’t find the report of boris,s Union Jack being on the plane upside down
Are they hiding it
robbo
4 years ago
Anyway
I see Nessie has been spotted making an appearance 5 times this month.Now why hasn’t the BBC or others reported this? We wouldn’t want them to be reporting anything to put Scotland in the hearts of the world again would we.
We must be Scotland bad SNP bad Scot Gov bad at al times- rinse repeat .
O/T Here they come. Just received an email from a local estate agent with branches all over I believe.
‘Since the beginning of June, we have seen an increase in Londoners looking to move north of the border. This coincides with our friends in Scotland beginning their phased return to normality, with high-streets reopening and lockdown measures easing. If this news has made you dream of the Highland life, we have a Grade A listed Georgian house for you on the Moray coast built by Archibald Simpson in 1827.
More coming down here too. Viewed a house yesterday where previous viewer was looking to move from St Albans.
I see the top virologist of the forum Bipod is spouting his usual bollocks today.
You need to read more as some doctors what the difference between a flu influenza.a corona virus and a bacterium.
jfngw
4 years ago
@shug
I think it’s a red herring, it will depend on what side of the plane you look at and where the imaginary flag pole is.
Shug
4 years ago
You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades
The one thing they have in common is bitterness and hatred
They hate catholic’s, Irish, polish, french, germans. Really they just hate everyone that is not english
call me dave
4 years ago
Ten minute discussion there on radio 5 live about the quarantine rules that Boris has decided to bring in for foreign travellers without consultation with the other three colonies have not been given the nod through in Wales.
UK has power to make the rules on borders but the devolved administrations have the whip hand in matters concerning public
health when planes and boats etc arrive admits big Auntie.
Well we know all this already.
Scotland not even mentioned 🙂
Tartan elephant in the room kinda thing.
Look forward to what SGov decide…. next week.
Pity to throw away progress to date…init! Eh! ….init? 🙁
robbo
4 years ago
Ask some doctors even what the difference is between a flu(influenza) an unknown corona virus and a bacterium(bubonic plague) black death or whatever.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
This wold appear appropriate homework for some. Scotland’s government needs to value its’ legal duty of care for Scotland’s public, more than its’ pseudo-legal constitutional obligations to Westminster’s assumed authority. Time Westminster was telt what’s what by an EQUAL partner, under international law.
Aye its weird Shug considering most of them are of French decent more so than owt else.
jfngw
4 years ago
@Meindevon
It’s the A*lba bit, the Rev has it banned, he doesn’t like Sear Elba.
jfngw
4 years ago
@call me dave
Same on BBC TV News, announce it for UK and refer to British travellers, no indication that the devolved countries have an input, they probably don’t even know or could be bothered to check. The parochialism of the BBC in London is unparalleled.
call me dave
4 years ago
@shug
I posted this link yesterday just as the Glasgow incident was starting.
Aye if you take a look. It’ll be OK from left to right on the other side.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it doesn’t, then British constitutionalism can not be considered supportive of Scotland’s civic society. It isn’t (see Brexit).
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
SORRY….If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it does, then
jfngw
4 years ago
I see Bella Caledonia thinks you can’t be a member of the SNP and vote for another party. How dim can you be.
Fireproofjim
4 years ago
Let me put my wee tale about Jim Baxter.
I visited a friend in the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary who was in for a kidney transplant.
In the same two bed ward was the bold Jim Baxter, in for a liver transplant. (No comment about that).
The surgical teams for each patient were coded by colours, and above each bed was a big sign. Above Jim’s the sign was “The Green Team”.
When I joked about it he just said “Aye. the doctors in here have a grand sense of humour”.
A fine fellow and the best left half Scotland ever had.
Col.Blimp IV
4 years ago
Shug says:
“You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades…
…Really they just hate everyone that is not English”
I see Pete Wishart has become engaged, I hope she doesn’t ask him any questions, libel to be blocked or in her case locked out. Of course unlikely to get through the wedding vows, the ‘Do You…’ part will almost certainly end up with the officiator being blanked.
Col.Blimp IV
4 years ago
jfngw
Years of wandering alone through the valley of the shadow the
Union Jack, has led SNP loyalists to believe that the SNP hold all the blueprints, patents, copywrites, licences and road-maps associated with independence … Have they locked them in a safe and forgotten the combination?
Fireproofjim
4 years ago
Co.Blimp IV
I like the “Official Line” it’s good fun and no offence taken. Thanks.
Gary45%
4 years ago
Baxter1967@9.24
Apologies, if needed? regarding any connection with Baxter 1967.
Jinky J best of that era. Meindevon@10.19
Yes it is a worry, regarding the increase in travelers coming into Scotland.
I have heard a few stories this week about campervans coming north, not being allowed access, then spouting Anti Scottish abuse at the locals, yes Anti Scottish abuse.
Personally the area where I live, there are some roads closed off, locals know all about them, but we are seeing more vehicles driving along roads that are closed, “the sign of a tourist who shouldn’t be here”.
A strong border control is the only answer, if not there is no point in trying to contain the virus in Scotland.
Dogbiscuit
4 years ago
Ladies and gentlemen given that Sir Patrick Vallance the Governments chiefs Medical Advisor used to work for Glaxo Smith Kline and they signed a contract to deliver covid vaccines to the NHS shortly after Dominic Cummings paid them a visit at Barnards Castle don’t you think that’s somewhat fishy? GSK have a very chequered history when it comes to untested products. Now they have a captive frightened market.
Hello lurkers .Your hairs getting long.
So, you stop all trains and road traffic heading North.
Do you stop people heading south?
What about the airports? Quarantine anyone flying into Scotland for 14 days if they’ve come from England?
Isolate a whole fucking country?
How much essential freight is transported north?
It’s not going to happen. Never mind it’s impracticable; it would cause serious political damage for the Scot Govt.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
I’m not denying there may be substance to the biscuit’s conspiracy theory, but I’ve already established he is a man of the right, and I recognise the politics of fear and populism when I see it.
The pandemic is exposing the weaknesses of populism, but also fuelling authoritarianism
The Covid-19 pandemic may be exposing the weaknesses of populism. We should not be complacent, however, as authoritarianism is the real problem, warns Daphne Halikiopoulou (University of Reading).
*Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)
KoGB was the result of the union of KoS and KoE in 1707.
If you remove either the KoS or KoE from the equation, then what remains is NOT the KoGB but the ‘other half’ of the pair of Kingdoms that combined to make the KoGB. (Principality of Wales being part of the KoE since the C16th). Think of the former Czechoslovakia as an example – without the two constituent parts being unified, it ceased to exist and each part reverted to its pre-union status.
The term “united Kingdom” appears in the 1707 Acts between Scotland and England, but was descriptive in referring to Scotland and England being “united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain”. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of Great Britain”.
The term “United Kingdom” appears in the 1800 Acts between Great Britain and Ireland, and formed the title of the new State: “united into one kingdom by the name of “the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland””. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”
Use of “United Kingdom” should have ceased in 1921/1927 when the Kingdom of Ireland was dissolved. With Scottish independence, use of the “Kingdom of Great Britain” should also cease with each constituent part reverting to its pre-union status.
Joe
4 years ago
@CBB
You add something here. Thanks to you its a bit like being in a decent pub where people are having a loud joust with words, sharing stern opinions. You add to this by taking the role of the guy at the corner of the bar, pissed out his face who occasionally shouts incoherently something thats only relevant to himself
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
The British constitution and the hierarchy of administrative government in Brexitania, is inadequate to the public health challenges presented by covid-19, and needs to take a secondary role to international law, IMHO. Once it’s done that, it can be permanently resigned to history, as far as I’m concerned. 🙂
Full text.
American Journal of Public Health. 2005 July; 95(7): 1156–1161
The Right to Health Under International Law and Its Relevance to the United States
Abstract
In recent years, there have been considerable developments in international law with respect to the normative definition of the right to health, which includes both health care and healthy conditions. These norms offer a framework that shifts the analysis of issues such as disparities in treatment from questions of quality of care to matters of social justice.
Building on work in social epidemiology, a rights paradigm explicitly links health with laws, policies, and practices that sustain a functional democracy and focuses on accountability. In the United States, framing a well-documented problem such as health disparities as a “rights violation” attaches shame and blame to governmental neglect.
Further, international law offers standards for evaluating governmental conduct as well as mechanisms for establishing some degree of accountability.
And all the other pricks who childishly chase down anybody they suspect of not being a member of their Wings Clique.
They spend all their time handing out special treatment to these so called trolls.
And all because these posters had the utter fuckin cheek to have a different opinion to the juvenile Wings Clique.
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Just saying.
Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 2017 Oct;126(7): 890-897
Antagonism Trait Facets and Comprehensive Psychosocial Disability: Comparing Information Across Self, Informant, and Interviewer Reports link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
And just for the record, it took a decade for me to get it together after my brain injury, but I’m in full control of my executive functions now. Though I admit I’ve got a temper and not that long a fuse.
From Evaluation to Prediction: Behavioral Effects and Biological Markers of Cognitive Control Intervention link to hindawi.com
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
The second half of my degree was a bit nippy, as I’d mangled my brain half way through the course. I reckon I wouldn’t be the individual I am today though, without having to learn a bit about post-modern critical social theory. For those who have a reflexive hostility towards social science, (I see you), it’s the cognitive science component that distinguishes its’ practice from anything that could be described as “cultural Marxism”.
Interpreting the International Right to Health in a Human Rights-Based Approach to Health link to hhrjournal.org
Col.Blimp IV
4 years ago
Robertknight
It would by my reckoning be called – The United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland, AKA England. Come to think of it there has never been a valid reason for not calling the current set-up “AKA England”.
Sums him up nicely.. made me chuckle
How do you do it Chris? Seriously, how?
Scotlands cartoon makar, if there is such a thing, and if not…it’s just been invented.
Simply genius.
There are some things that just won’t polish.
Fabulous cartoon Chris. I envy your talent to tell a long story in one picture.
Thank you Chris! Now away to make sure Carlaw & Co see it. 🙂
Totally apt, well done ?
Ah emojis don’t translate.
Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff – every single Scottish Tory voted against it including Sec of State and ex Sec of State. Brass neck does not even begin to describe him.
@ Ian 7:56 am – Two dots & a closed bracket. Make sure you leave a space from the end of your sentence before doing it. Good luck!
You cannot polish a turd.
Is the wifie wie the hammer tool Kezia Dugdale by any chance Chris?
Lovely Chris, perfectly capturing Carlaws grubby politics and his merry gang of neathderols who bring nothing to Scottish politics except keeping chairs warm, drawing large salaries and raising false accusations, feeding the bbc & smears. They are the very reason that PR needs abolished at Holyrood. Marvellous Chris and ta for the chuckle.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The Shining Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland The […]
That’s Glinner’s account been suspended.
Some days, I don’t think we’ll ever win against them.
A long MUST READ from Frank Furedi, but worth it.
link to spiked-online.com
I admire Western culture, what remains of it, but i could never be a ‘Westerner’, too much self loathing, too much guilt and navel gazing with the fingers hovering over the auto-destruct button.
What’s the old saying? You can polish a Tory as much as you want, but it’s still a Tory.
I’m sure Jackson Carlaw will be suspending those MP’s from Scotland who voted against weekly testing of NHS & care staff, after all it’s one of his priorities is it not. He certainly talks about testing often enough, I suspect he will stop until her thinks we have forgotten, we never forget though.
Not only a failed car salesman but a failed party leader to add to his CV.
O/T Why does BBC Scotland keep on asking ‘why are you not following England’ in the corona virus response. With zero deaths compared to 183 yesterday you would think the question should be ‘why are England not following Scotland’s lead’ but when your dripped in colonialism it’s a impossible mind step to take. The power of the BBC emanates from the centre, when they appear in a region, and the BBC see Scotland as a region, they talk down to you, they see you as inferior, and as CameronB would say ‘I have extensive training in that area’.
@Achnababan,
think that`s a tape dispenser 🙂
Classic Chris, you nailed it.
Gala@9.47
You beat me to it;))
I see John Major believes Covid will make independence more difficult. I’m not sure what analysis he is using but being a Tory it could be we are not reducing our pension costs as efficiently as they are in England.
The man indeed whose party voted against Testing.
And now he snipes incessantly but at the same time wants all the controls removed so that folks can go back to work and bugger le wave second.
But look at the worker in Mr Cairn’s cartoon. Could that be a sweat she’s in, like the sweat on a sweat shop. Yep, typifies Mr Carlaw and his ilk perfectly.
BBC Scotland are not happy their anti-Scotland message is not getting across, support just keeps growing (well not reducing anyway). They have sent out their coded message ‘powder-keg’ in the hope they can get some serious rioting in the streets of Glasgow, it must be getting near the last throw of the dice for them.
@Might S 9.07am
It was only a matter of time. The issue is what to do about it: either those who support Glinner & Stu do something about it and use other forums like Mastodon, Gab, Manyverse, Minds etc, or they accept that their free speech is constrained by the dictates of the regressive men’s rights activists behind the trans extremists.
Seems to me part of any new list party (or indeed post indy party representing those who agree with scientific reality) should be the protection of free speech with strong US style constitutional protection.
jfngw says: 27 June, 2020 at 9:48 am
Considering the size of England,it’s population and how it’s distributed throughout it’s land mess, it is obvious different types of responses are required for different parts of England.
I wonder if the question of regional responses to the health crisis for different parts of England was asked to the BBC Scotland they would be speechless as it doesn’t fit in with their narrative of Scotland/SNP bad?
Nice one Chris, a Tory wouldn’t be a Tory without the obligatory Brass Neck of dishonour.
Meanwhile the Times newspaper (in Scotland) political editor lied to Scotland’s FM Nicola Sturgeon during her Covid-19 daily bulletin, saying to her that AUOB marches were going ahead very soon, when infact that’s not the case, which prompted Sturgeon to plead with them not to hold any mass marches right now, and in the process cast a cloud shame over the movement.
Of course this kind of grubby wee lies from unionist news rags is nothing new, in my opinion all it does is diminish their already flagging reputation as a fair and honest reporting news outlet. I’m sure the Times newspaper in Scotland will see sales drop after this disgraceful attempt to blacken the name of the AUOB.
Don’t buy the Times hit them where it hurts in the pocket.
Leading Labour branch office in Scotland activist Sean Baillie has quit the party due to Labours leader and millionaire Knight of the Realm Sir Keir Starmer opposing our democratic right to a second Scottish independence referendum.
link to thenational.scot
@Andy Ellis
It would seem twitters aim is to be the communication of the ‘Hello’ reader, it’s what they want and what the politicians want.
Mastodon is just as restrictive and your instance will be blocked by others if you tread on controversial (in their opinion) territory. Gab is just another version of Mastodon but with some dubious members, seems to be the choice of the far-right.
The problem of moving to these small players is you are stuck in a bubble, the minority fetish lobbyists will have won. They will go unhindered in their normalisation of of their pet fetish’s.
@PacMan
England is not organised to respond in the way you suggest, The councils of England do not have the power required and I can’t see WM ever giving it to them. If they did that they would also certainly need to increase Scotland’s powers, a definite no-no for them.
Not sure of the land mass comment, Scotland’s land mass is 2/3rd of England and more difficult a terrain when an outbreak occurs in a more remote area.
Edwina Currys ex-PM toyboy John Major, who vehemently opposes Scottish independence, for many reason including England losing Trident and its seat at the UN Security Council, has said on that bastion of the union radio station, Radio 4, that Scottish independence will be much harder now to obtain due to the pandemic.
Major must surely be aware that the polls suggest otherwise, and that being part of this union for 313 years has been a far bigger hinderance to Scotland and Scots and their development than this pandemic.
link to thenational.scot
Another good Scottish saying for people of the Carlaw calibre
Is his ability to crawl under a snakes belly while wearing a top hat.
As a failed car dealer he will also be aware of the term for selling and old banger.
It’s a Tar Boiler with a Wax job.
Exactly what the Tory party are best described as!
Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.
Scotland would have to leave it however
The site below will be confirming 10,000,000 tested Covid positive today.
There will also be confirmed 500,000 Covid deaths globally.
We know the Tories are hiding 20,000 plus deaths and many of the other
Corrupt governments such as in Trumpland will be playing the same game.
The third world nations can not afford testing or recording so I would in no way
Be surprised if the real numbers were double those recorded.
Queue the Unionist Trolls to tell us it’s all lies and it’s just the Common Cold.
@jfngw 10.57am
People in the Yes movement who agree with Stu and Glinner’s position on this issue have to make a choice in the end. It’s become obvious that the chilling effect of being othered by a-scientific flat-earthers means you either have to agree with their woo-woo, or (as I suspect most will do) keep your head down and avoid saying anything about it.
I see what you mean about being in a bubble, but if those held guilty of thought crime are to be permanently excluded from other platforms, what alternative is there? I have zero faith twitter will change its stance, anymore than I now believe the SNP will be rescued from the folly of its current stance on the issue.
People talk a good game, but in the end what have those who disagree with twitters actions (or those of the SNP in similar vein), need to ask what they’ve achieved. Stu’s twitter account remains suspended. Glinner’s is now suspended. The trans lobby remains entrenched in the SNP and appears to have carte blanche from the leadership. No action is taken against them, nor are they effectively combatted by most in the party apart from a few brave individuals like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine.
re Twitter ban for glinner – perhaps it’s up to too-big-to-fail JK Rowling to make the point about free speech and science denying censorship. She could probably fund a rival social media platform.
The new ISP can challenge the gender nonsense in the one place where they can make a difference, the next Holyrood election.
@HYUFD
Oh look your back with if you don’t bend the knee we will punish you rhetoric. You are welcome to keep Trident, the quicker it is removed from Scotland the better.
We could have possibly aligned with Russia but it looks like the Tories beat us to it, where is that Russia report your party are hiding?
@Capella 11.53am
I hope you’re right about the ISP: we certainly need some alternative as the SNP appears to be a lost cause. It seems to have been a fairly amateurish start IMO, and I’m not convinced they will reach “escape velocity” to gain a significant number of MSPs without upping their game or coming up with some big hitters?
I doubt JKR is that bothered about constructing a twitter alternative. As an individual she’s pretty untouchable due to her position and wealth. There are already alternative platforms, but as pointed out earlier, people are loathed to use things that haven’t reached critical mass. Going forward those supporting a list only party like ISP or any future WoS party need to look at organising on a federated, open source community where the can’t be de-platformed or banned.
Great cartoon BTW. The scandal of Tory MPs voting down testing for nurses needs to be made more public.
We also heard this morning that the Home Office is responsible for moving asylum seekers from their flats in communities, where they had support, into city centre hostels where they had reduced financial support. Alison Thewliss was interviewed on R Scotland this morning and made the point that both the Scottish Government and Glasgow City Council had expressed concern to the Home Office about this policy and the negative impact on already traumatised individuals.
This was done by the private company who carries out Home Office orders. The reason given was the corona virus lockdown.
Some Scots did very well out of the British empire, Sutherland, Jardine, Matheson..
link to globalresearch.ca
No need for woke hand wringing or sackcloth, it’s simply history from which we learn about the true nature of globalist imperialism, its schemes, projects and fork tongued agents.
The Afghan Taliban attempted to eradicate opium poppy cultivation. Under US occupation and patronage it restarted.
Using narcotics and intoxicants to weaken cultures is an old imperialist trick. Viruses are rather handy too.
@winifred mccartney says:
27 June, 2020 at 7:57 am
“Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff”
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it was 331 Tories who voted against testing, which makes it even worse.
Hopefully we are not going the same way as the USA. Following Trump’s latest rally, news is that several Secret Service staff and a lot of the attendees are now self-isolating due to symptoms of COVID-19.
@ Andy Ellis – I agree the ISP needs some big names to make an impression. It would be great if Alex Salmond would join – and Stu and Craig! Annoy all the right people. Indycar Gordon Ross has joined. But I’m as guilty as any for not going to their website yet.
I’ve heard that members of Wokus Dei are planning to become candidates in the next Holyrood election. If any Branch is stupid enough to select them, then the ISP will have to have a leaflet campaign to hand to educate the voters.
Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.
HYUFD 11:15
Depends on how you see things, Scotland as a founding element of the UKGBI might also claim successor state status. The assumption that England would be so considered is pure speculation.
Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.
The USSR was a totally different political entity from the Scotland-England union.
There is anyway much discontent around the concept of ‘permanence’ on the so-called security council. Cui bono?
@Andy Ellis
Yes, it’s a dilemma what is the correct route to take, do we try and be cleverer with our use of Twitter and is it possible (I’m not on twitter but I do have a Mastodon account, it’s quiet compared to twitter , I can still read most peoples posts there without joining, only a couple of people I recognise there). There was a mass influx last Dec when people like MrMalky and Jeggit joined but they never post and have remained on Twitter.
It’s not really feasible to run your own successful Mastodon instance unless you have a decent stash of money. Your ISP I suspect would soon complain if you ran it from your online account and a single person administering this type of service is not reliable. You really need to have it hosted and with a company that will not throw you off when pressurised by the lobbyists.
@Ottomanboi
Is this brutal truth saturday?;)
@Effijy
Tories bad. Trump bad. There. Thats me put in the accepted limit of discussion. I wont go a step further for now
@HYUFD,
from `The United Nations Association – UK is the leading independent policy authority on the United Nations in the UK, and a UK-wide grassroots membership organisation.`
“If one were to take the view that after Scotland’s independence there would be no continuing state of the UK, and instead two new nations – separate legal entities – had been created, then neither new nation would be entitled to the UK’s permanent Security Council seat, and so the seat would in theory be lost.”
and we will let you have Trident as a `wee going away prezzie`, stick it up the Thames somewhere,park the subs outside the dump that is Westminster.
Hi Capella at 12:16 pm.
You typed,
“Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.”
Yeah, I joined Gab as well but the content of their “news” emails had me raising my eyebrow. I’ve done nothing with my account.
@AndyEllis Mind last year when Stu was silenced off Twitter, he was going to suss out other platforms…did he ever report back on that?
Also, I agree. We can sit and whine about how Twitter keeps cancelling us or we can actually move onto another platform, or, create our own. So what if it’s a bubble – the French Resistance weren’t exactly all-inclusive were they? We will at least be able to organise and get stuff done.
@ Capella & jfngw
Agree with both of you it’s a conundrum. I joined Gab too, and whilst there are lots of loonies on there, I’m prepared to hold my nose and see how it goes for the benefit of it being open source and self hosted. To my mind the alt-right nutters on Gab are no worse than the trans extremists on twitter, and the benefit of Gab is you’re not going to get cancelled or suspended for wrong think.
It takes a fair amount of money, technical expertise and effort to build a new platform from the ground up….same goes for an alternative party. From a social media point of view the good thing about using a federated platform like Gab is that it will be immune from the kind of pile-ons & suspensions we’ve seen on twitter. Potentially also useful for the groups function which twitter doesn’t have.
@Capella
There are companies that will host Mastodon instances for you:
link to masto.host
But a quick look at their terms and conditions and you will see they would eject you just like twitter did with Glinner. Plus all these systems need someone to moderate them or you will soon find your instance filled with thing you don’t want or may not even be legal in the UK.
Ottomanboi
You wrote “ Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.”
I understand what you are saying, but in actuality, I am 100% sure that the Uk without Scotland would continue to cal itself the UK. It’s just a name. Outside of Scotland, we do not get exercised about the historic politics of current names. It’s been a while since people drove there cattle through the stream here. Somehow though, the name Oxford has stuck.
What I like about twitter is I can Follow people who have interesting or challenging things to say. I have a wide range of people I follow. I hardly ever post myself but do retweet stuff quite regularly.
Stu’s twitter account was a great source of news about things I’m interested in. Better than the BBC.
But twitter started banning and suspending people and “deboosting” people. I think I’m following them but no tweets appear. It’s insidious.
All the big US corporations are playing this game. Censorship. There ought to be a law protecting freedom of expression. But private companies can please themselves with no obligation to respect diverse opinions. Thus the great open forum of the internet is gradually closed down.
It’s the duty of the state to protect freedom of expression. The EU might do it. The UK won’t.
@Andy Ellis
Parler is a new one like gab. Ive never tried it but maybe you’ll like it better? It got a lot of attention recently
@Capella
The EU is at the forefront of clamping down on free speech online
@Ottomanboi 12.51pm
They can call themselves anything they like of course, but UK would seem to be pretty senseless as there would no longer be 2 kingdoms to unite surely? Similarly Great Britain wouldn’t really work, as England and Wales is only part of the island of Great Britain. Perhaps they could called themselves FUK for Former UK? 🙂
Also, you’re not really correct about it only being the Scots who become exercised about names: ask the Macedonians and Greeks!
If you want to secure free speech you need to secure a country and a constitution that sets it in stone. Its corporations, and their helpful international organisations, that dont want that. Thats why they want to diminish national sovereignty and erode borders
Andy Ellis at 12:05 pm
I would also like to see a bit more action and discussion with regard to the List Party concept.
With no disrespect intended to Martin Keatings, if he stands as an independent candidate and not as Pro-Indy Party candidate on the Mid Scotland & Fife Regional List, then the 2nd votes he receives are solely for him and not pooled for a Party which may have the potential to get more than one list MSP elected.
If another candidate stands as an independent or as an ISP candidate in the region, then it’s the same situation and the campaigning message becomes far more difficult to convey across the region with no simple unified message or the ability to pool votes.
Anybody that has been involved in running a Local Council Election campaign using the Single Transferable Vote system with the ward split into territories with “Vote X 1 and Y 2” or “Vote X 2 and Y 1” will know it is extremely difficult to obtain a balanced vote share in the hope of getting both elected, even with the back up safety net of vote transfers. That is just in one ward, never mind an entire region made up of multiple constituencies.
@Andy Ellis
Maybe they could go for Unitary Kingdom of England, Wales & NI (likely just to be England soon if things continue as at present), after all it’s the pretence they like, the reality is less attractive.
It’s going to hit them hard when we can still call ourselves British if we want to (it’s a location not a nationality, just like European).
is the guy Mundell, without a beard? – if so you give him a chin! ?
Andy and Ottomanboi
Will Scotland change its name too? Surely you can’t call a country Scotland, if non Scots live there? That we be offensive to people that are not Scottish by birth? Very divisive and unPC.
Jfngw
… no … we will stick with UK. Why do you care?
@ Dan 12.05pm
I was hopeful about the prospects for a list only party before, but I’m afraid I’m less optimistic now. It’s getting awful close to Holyrood 2021. The ISP folks appear well intentioned but I’m afraid they lack charismatic leadership and their launch (which I acknowledge was impacted by Covid-19) just seemed like amateur hour.
Without folk like Joanna Cherry or Alex Salmond on board I fear the impact will be limited, and it may have no real impact if the SNP gain a majority at Holyrood on their own. If that happens we might as well accept #indyref2 isn’t happening any time soon.
Fair play to Martin Keatings on the S30 court case, but his decisions to stand as an independent looks quixotic at best. The last thing we need is multiple list only parties.
Hill walkers rejoice, new Monroe located!
You too can have your head in the clouds once you ascend “Peak Pete”! 🙂
link to twitter.com
@Sensibledave
Why would Scotland have to change its name because there are people from outside Scotland living here? I’d be more than happy with the Republic of Scotland.
Jfngw
“Hit them hard”???
I note your need/want/desire for us non Scots to be negatively affected by an independent Scotland. Why is that?
As I recall, the parliamentary representatives of the people of England voted by a huge majority to hold a referendum in Scotland to see if the people of Scotland wanted Independence. The majority of the people of Scotland said they didn’t.
As usual, you blame, and want to punish everyone else because the majority of voters in Scotland, for whatever reason, found your vision less attractive than the status quo.
Who knows, maybe it’s the snide, thinly veiled bigotry displayed by many against folk that just happen to live in England?
@sensibledave
That’s why I gave you Unitary Kingdom, then you can keep the UK delusion, but thanks for proving my point.
@sensibledave
They didn’t vote for status quo, it was Devo Max, the BBC, David Cameron (the Vow) clearly sold it as that, plus continued membership of the EU. The fact that they broke purdah and then didn’t keep the promises made makes the 2014 referendum less than authoritative.
“Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.”
HYUFD.
That’s not strictly true, there is a mechanism in place to remove a member of the Security Council.
“The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII”
As for Trident, you’re welcome to it put on the Thames for all I care as long as its out of Scotland, which doesn’t require a seat on the council of vetos.
“When you are allowed to…” a phrase sadly often uttered these mentally lockdowned days, one that makes you realise how primed the population has become for further suppressions of individual freedoms at the hands of ‘government’.
Some amongst us have actually enjoyed the restrictions of corona purdah and may have withdrawal symptoms. O tempora…
@sensibledave
The ‘hit then hard’ is about the emotional state not the physical, I don’t particularly want a failed state next door to me, too unstable.
Info on the jackbooted Nazi racist thugs, that oppose Scottish independence through violence and intimidation, and cultural diversity in Scotland and the rUk.
link to hopenothate.org.uk
sensibledave:
Truth is, you’re not that sensible.
For instance, you wish, post Independence, to have the rump of the current UK, minus the now independent Scotland, still referred to as: The United Kingdom
How can you have a United Kingdom after one of the two member kingdoms in the union has left?
Also, the vast representatives of the people of the rest of the UK did not vote in favour of a referendum – strictly speaking, in passing the Section 30 legislation, they agreed to abide by the decision of the Scottish people.
Sensibledave 13:16
Could simply call Scotland by the more ancient Gaelic name or even Caledonia.
Scots aren’t a ‘race’ as such, so does it matter?
Land of the free, potentially, by any name.
Socrates
… I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?
On the cartoon I take it, its to do with the Scottish Tory MPs at Westminster voting down testing for NHS staff in hospitals for the virus. Whilst Carlaw the branch manager in Scotland drones on about testing more up in Scotland, whilst bewailing about it at FMQs.
The hypocrisy of a Tory knows no bounds, brass necks indeed.
Jfngw
… I’m not sure you quite “get” the notion of Independence. If an independent UK that doesn’t include Scotland wants to call itself UK or anything else … it would have bugger all to do with you and no one would care what you thought anyway.
We appreciate your concern and advice though (it’s been filed under “don’t give a s***)!
” I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?”
Sensibledave.
I suppose its just common sense Dave, the United Kingdom was originally a union between Scotland and England was it not? So logically (hmmm we are dealing with Johnson so logic isn’t a prerequisite) once that union is dissolved (hopefully sooner than later) would it not be more prudent to rename it giving a more befitting title, such as the United Countries of Britain, or the United States of Britain.
UCB or USB would used in short, and a colour from the Welsh flag would replace the blue from Scotland’s Saltire in the Butchers Aporn.
I noticed this tweet from James Kelly
“Not true at all – the overall composition of parliament is roughly proportional to how people vote on the list. The list ballot is therefore the more important ballot.”
This is nonsense, if the SNP win 65 constituency seats they still have 65 parliamentary seats no matter if they only gain 1% in the list vote.
I no problem with him describing a second independence party as having a risk element attached if the SNP fail to win enough constituency seats, but this is just a misrepresentation to deceive.
@sensibledave
Hmm! Someone on an independence site telling us to mind our own business. Et tu, Brute.
Republicofscotland
… I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.
Now that Sensibledave has triggered our curiosity as to what the UK might call itself after we’ve ditched this horrendous union once and for all, one wonders what England would have other nations refer us to it, as the Welsh and NI surely wouldn’t have much of a say in what to call it.
They could just call it Britain, England & Colonies, or maybe even Britannia we’ll just have to wait and see, though hopefully it will not be too long a wait.
“I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.”
Sensibledave.
Supposition on the new name of a new union isn’t disrespectful as for the Butchers Apron, lets not forget a colour from the Saltire is in it, and as long as that blood soaked flag flies in Scotland, and Scots live under its yoke I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.
This is fun!
Independence turned on its head!
Why, if Scotland is independent, do you think me or anyone else would care what people from another country think we should be called or what flags we use?
It is another variation of a warped Stockholm Syndrome. If Scotland becomes independent because that is what the majority of folk want, then, as was demonstrated by the Westminster Parliament arranging referendum on the subject, non Scots are cool with that.
But many seem unhappy with that. They appear to want us to scream and shout and gnash our teeth! Do you remember the mass marches in al the cities across England as folk fought to keep Scotland in the UK against its will?? Errr … no … there weren’t any.
If Scotland becomes independent country then you will have the blessing of the vast majority of the people of England and we will wish you well. I can’t help feeling though, those emotions are not reciprocated by many here. Why is that?
@RepublicofScotland
I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!
@Andy Ellis at 1:18 pm
Are “big player” names really required though? Yes they undoubtedly would bring something to the Party, (possibly baggage and egos…), but there are also many other lesser nationally known but highly competent “local folk” in the regions that may actually do a better job of representing their areas.
To fly the concept just requires dare I say strengthening through a semblance of unity.
I’m having chats with activists that still don’t have a handle on the voting system, nevermind the wider electorate’s capacity to comprehend it.
Keeping it straightforward using KISS acronym principles is what is required with the limited time we have available.
If covid situation creates another lockdown then that is going to restrict and influence any campaign, therefore a simple 2nd Vote for The Pro-Indy Regional List Party is the only realistic way to progress.
Today’s figs: on BBC websites patchy only in Wales is a corona virus blog mentioned. Big Auntie doesn’t seem bothered now.
The SUN has all the numbers so here they are.
Scotland…….today…..*00……..Total…*2482…*SUN + BBC
N. Ireland…..today…..*01……..Total….*549…*SUN
Wales……….today…..*05……..Total…*1502…*SUN
England……..today…..*78……..Total..*28635…*SUN
========================================================
UK………….today…no data……Total..*43500…*SUN
Probably change later when WM Gov officially announce a number.
@Dan 2.35pm
I’m not saying they are the be all and end all, but it would serve to up the profile of any new indy party? I accept that it could be a double edged sword, but my view of the current situation and plans for Holyrood 2021 elections has long been that we don’t actually NEED a mass party, or to convert undecideds (which can be a long process).
A list only party (following on from analysis done by Gavin Barrie (@jammach) just needs to convince “enough” to win a decent number of seats. We’ve seen in the past that minor parties have often won list seats on 6 or 7% of the vote (Greens, SSP, Margot as an independent, the Pensioner Party).
Trouble is now, if the SNP doesn’t depend on a “sensible” list only party for its majority, it will simply sit on its hands for another decade as no-marks like Pete Wishart and his clueless supporters so amply demonstrate. It won’t help to have a dozen ISP or Wings MSPs if the SNP and Greens have a majority anyway: we’ll still be locked in to the “Gold Standard” approved S30 referendum process, self-ID and new hate speech laws.
I reckon having a personality like Salmond or Cherry declaring for a new list party must give SNP hierarchy sleepless nights. Collette Walker and Martin Keatings….not so much.
Parler
For those who want to be Katie Hopkins’ penpal
Yet the vileness of so much of its content necessarily precludes debate because no-one seeking reasoned debate could possibly want to debate there. Who wants to have a thoughtful, sit-down discussion in a sewer?
link to archive.is
Meanwhile
Is independence too much bother for careerist SNP politicians?
link to archive.is
Effigy@11.09
“Tar boiler with a wax job” is that not the name of the entertainer at the Bullingdon Club?
@Mike Cassidy 2.50pm
What’s your alternative solution though? If folk who support the likes of WoS, Glinner, JKR on the issue of women’s rights are routinely de-platformed and banned, either we accept that curtailment of free speech, come up with an alternative independent forum, or use ones which already exist.
In my experience (which appears to be echoed by others) Mastodon is little different from twitter, in that those paying for and acting as admins of “instances” will suspend anyone on the same basis as twitter on the basis that they don’t want their instance ostracised by other instance admins in their universe.
Perhaps in the end we have to take a more Voltairean view…?
“I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!”
Yes Andy very apt indeed, what’s interesting though is a million and one questions have been posed in here by so called unionists on what Scotland would do on this and that before and after independence on everything from currency to defence.
Yet the same so called unionists get their knickers in an almighty twist when the tables turn when we ask only one or two questions on which flag, and what will the UK call itself after Scotland escapes from the horrid union.
Unsurprisingly we are met with, keep your nose out of it, its none of your business, Oh if only the so called unionists followed their own advice.
Personally I will vote for any pro independence, anti GRA party that stands in my area. Anyone know Fergus Ewing’s stance on GRA? x
What Twitter illustrates is that a public network is a natural monopoly. Like railways, roads and telecoms, you can only realistically have one provider. For that reason it should be a state provider or at least so regulated that it might as well be.
Republicofscotlnd 2.26
You wrote ” I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.”
Indeed you will and you have.
… and I will think that you are a very disrepectful t**t if I want to. … Free country and all that.
You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.
As a mature grown up though, I understand the workings of an under developed brain. I have children. They also think the world revolves aound them and their views and that anyone that disagrees them are unworthy.
In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of …whilst I didn’t) and everyone smiles at the cleverness of it all.
Here’s the news. Other than your little gang … the rest of us think you are just jerks. Narcisstic, brainless jerks.
Wanting Idependence, I would have thought, would be all about the positives … where the country could go, what it could become, what it should stand for, its morals, its ethics, etc
What I see though is obsession with the faults of the “others”, their history, their heroes, their darker times, failures, etc. You feel they need to negatively characterise them because of their country of birth. You want to insult their systems, institutions and symbols.
… and you struggle to understand why the people of Scotland are not all lined up behind you?
Joanna Cherry is hoping to represent Edinburgh Central? for the SNP. She is unlikely to stand for another party unless there’s some drastic upheaval. Alex Salmond, on the other hand, is not currently a member of the SNP.
The existing United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland should, under the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927, have reverted to the “Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”. The term “United Kingdom,” as opposed to “united Kingdom,” followed the Act of Union between the Kingdom of Great Britain and Kingdom of Ireland, therefore the term “United” should have been dropped under the 1927 Act. Furthermore, the Saltire of St Patrick should have been removed from the Union Flag and the Harp of Ireland removed from the Royal Coat of Arms.
None of that happened on the grounds of cost – some penny pinchers in Whitehall decided that to change the flags and coats of arms in addition to stationary etc. etc. etc. would be astronomical, therefore despite only Kingdoms having been represented on flags and coats of arms until this time, (Wales never featuring – being only a Principality, and one which through conquest found itself absorbed within a Kingdom), it was decided simply to modify the name, (Ireland modified to Northern Ireland), and the Saltire of St Patrick and Harp of Ireland would be retained to represent N.Ireland – despite it being a (British) Province on the island of Ireland and NOT a Kingdom as in the case of England, Scotland and the former Kingdom of Ireland.
The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. (The royal arms, both versions used in Scotland and elsewhere, have been quartered since 1603 to reflect the Union of Scottish and English crowns and would be unaffected by the reappearance of an independent Kingdom of Scotland).
But again, cost will likely result in no changes being made to titles, flags etc. so the rUK title and flag will likely remain unaltered following the reappearance of the Kingdom of Scotland. (The Scottish version of the Union Flag could technically be flown from a jack staff of any SDF Naval vessel if the monarch of the day requested such – the flag, in both Scottish and English forms, as with the royal coat of arms, predates the 1707 Act of Union by over a century).
So money, as opposed to the conventions of heraldry, styles and titles, will ultimately decide – as has already been shown when the majority of the former Kingdom of Ireland seceded from, (you could argue ‘dissolved‘), the UK, what changes should have taken place did not purely on the grounds of cost.
I have a spare tin since I don’t have any brass in the house.
Capella @12.06
Your comments about both the Scottish Government and the Glasgow City Council having raised their concerns about the treatment, indeed the basic humanity being shown to immigrants shows us what type of country we have become.
A country where human beings can be denied decency, denied medical support so often needed by fragile people who have had their lives turned upside down.
Lock down in a fucking hotel room, denied the princely sum of £5.30 a day, the private company exacting the hostile environment on behalf of the Home Office did their dirty work in plain view.
To the gas chambers they could be marched and save for a few well intentioned politicos who raised the issue, this disgrace was done in our name.
Done as we stood by, I fear that we are no different from the scum who implemented this policy, this hostile environment. If death camps make money, then caring Jock is happy to oblige. Right in the centre of Glasgow, but not just in Glasgow.
And has there been a cheep from Nicola Sturgeon. No, has there fuck. Posing as the Gaultier I expect little from her and her ilk who have infested the party.
Sorry for being so negative. I don’t wish to be. But as the details emerge of how these people were treated, and the horror of this event where people were left having had an eye ripped out or their guts ripped open crying for their mothers, I don’t think I can stomach wee Nicola’s silence.
Robert Knight
You wrote “The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. ”
Well thanks for that Robert. You will forgive me for saying, that in actuality, it will be absolutely nothing to do with you!
There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it. As a Sovereign nation we will do what we please, and, with the greatest respect, really not an issue that you should be troubling yoursef over – let alone seeking to interfere in.
@Iain More,
brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.
Sensible@3.51
Call yourselves “Ironyland” although that would be lost on
your populace.
Dawned on me today. Bank of England rainbow flag, rainbow flags from corporations, covid19 rainbow flag, rainbow flag on certain political groups.
No its not about being nice to LGBT.
We are experiencing a colour revolution.
Tories don’t really need brass necks to enable them to project their ideological opposition to the justice of the Natural Law tradition, as some sort of moral virtue.
In individual’s political outlook is a product of their biosocial nature. Tories tend to be genetically predisposed to oppose the principle of equality in law, and to support the belief that social inequality is natural. So Tories are simply bio-neurologically predisposed to support social injustice. Subsequently, the Tory mindset is drawn to support BritNat.
Full text.
Realist studies of oppression, emancipation and resistance
link to orca.cf.ac.uk
Colour revolution:
link to en.wikipedia.org
‘Participants in the colour revolutions have mostly used nonviolent resistance, also called civil resistance[citation needed]. Such methods as demonstrations, strikes and interventions have been intended protest against governments seen as corrupt and/or authoritarian and to advocate democracy and they have also created strong pressure for change.’
‘The colour revolutions are notable for the important role of non-governmental organisations (NGOs)’
‘In most but not all cases, massive street protests followed disputed elections or requests for fair elections and led to the resignation or overthrow of leaders considered by their opponents to be authoritarian’
‘Government figures in Russia, such as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, have claimed that colour revolutions are externally fuelled acts with a clear goal to influence the internal affairs that destabilise the economy,[2] conflict with the law and represent a new form of warfare.’
These NGO’s, corporations and international financiers – do they want this to make your life better? Or is it for greater control? Are the SNP giving us a glimpse of what the future might be like in the West if this succeeds?
@sensibledave
I quite fancy Scotland retaining the name UK, it’s up to us what we call ourselves, what’s going to happen when both countries want the same name. I suspect those from England think they own it, but they don’t.
ARE CURRENT EVENTS REALLY ABOUT YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY AND THE WELL BEING OF ETHNIC MINORITIES?
OR ARE YOU BEING TURNED INTO A VASSAL IN A CORPORATE POWER GRAB?
Gary45%
… and there you go again Gary!
Another pop at the “populace” of another country.
Perhaps, instead of a negatively characterising millions of ordinary folk who have never done anything to you and instead of negatively portraying the country, its politics, its institutions, its symbols, etc, …. you might try and pursuade people in your own country of how atractive your vision for the future you see for Scotland?
Its not working Gary, and whilst it really isnt anything to do with me, I understand why you are struggling to get the support you require.
I observe, in actuality, your mission is getting harder.
Now, not only do you not offer any positive vision for an Independent Scotland, not only do you constantly insult and abuse folk that happen to live in another country who, in the main, are neutral on the subject of Scottish Independence – you now insult and abuse other pro indy supporters in Scotland that may hold different political views to you on non Independence matters.
Its not looking good Gary. You really need a better plan, your current approach has failed spectacularly .. but you carry on!
You know what they say about keeping on doing the same thing and expecting different results?
@Andy Ellis at 2,48pm
Yep, what you say was touched on a few weeks back in previous discussion on the matter.
IIRC there was a suggestion of targeting a few constituency seats as that might focus some minds and tighten some sphincters if a threat to the presumed inevitability of an SNP majority arose.
We’ve seen with Neil Hanvey in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath in last GE that being suspending by the SNP a week before the election did not stop the activists or the electorate voting for him. Maybe that’s a small sign the electorate are receptive to alternatives.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Seeing as you mention Gavin Barrie’s work on the electoral numbers.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.
link to twitter.com
The BritNats and the extreme right appear to be blending into a single, definable, threat to Scotland’s democracy. It was bound to happen, as Brexitania is not a social democracy.
link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
@Sensibledave 3.36pm
I don’t think there’s much mileage in the theory that post brexit Engerlund is a shining exemplar of the rule of law or of anything else most of us would want to emulate. Rather the British nationalist project, like Trumps America and Putin’s Russia is rapidly descending into the kind of dystopia Timothy Snyder described in his book “The Road to Unfreedom”.
The Better Together camp and brexiteers of course learned much from Putin. Like Trump’s MAGA project they share the same regressive weltanschauung and desire to protect the current status quo at all costs. British nationalists, like their American and Russian counterparts are just too dim to see that the oligarchs have them exactly where they want them.
I fear it’s too late for rump UK: it is en route to being a hellish offshore low rent European Singapore. Fortunately Scotland has an “out”: the biggest question is whether Scots have the political balls to vote for it.
“You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.”
And you Sir (Sensibledave) are an ass if you believe, Scots and Scotland havent been disrespected for centuries by Westminster.
This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence, Alex Salmond, and Scots folk in general, only six years ago.
link to mobile.twitter.com
For those unable to see why nursing practice relates to the debate, it doesn’t, much, though it does provide an excellent referee to support a critical realist approach to social emancipation.
There have been a few deaths added since 14:00hrs
Official count now.
Scotland…….today……00……..Total….2482
N. Ireland…..today……01……..Total…..549
Wales……….today……05……..Total….1502
England……..today…..*78……..Total..*28635…*SUN
========================================================
UK………….today…..100……..Total…43514
Note: No separate figs for England on any BBC web site but the SUN publishes them.
Ireland’s new Taoiseach Micheal Martin speaks favourably of an independent Scotland, no doubt this will upset our colonial masters South of the border.
link to thenational.scot
“I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.”
jfngw.
Theres an excellent long letter in the National newspaper today by a Mr Bruce, who rightly points out that the very unlikely event that Johnson agrees to a S30 order, that it will carry a plethora of very stringent caveats, that no SNP government could ever accept, and as the longest serving SNP MP in the House of Commons Pete Wishart must surely know that.
One has to wonder why Wishart won’t even consider a Plan B.
@Andy Ellis
I’ll take my chances with the Trump or Brexit crowd any day over the kind of politics coming out of Holyrood or the kind of cognative dissonance shown by people who continue to support the SNP while slavering incoherently about the choices other people have made.
Scot Finlayson 3:52
brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.
Appropriate for a used car salesman then? 🙂
As if supporting the far-right would help Scotland in any way. Right-wing populists support authoritarian racism (see Brexit).
Full text.
Combatting Right?Wing Populism
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
@ willie 3.47 – immigration is a reserved matter, refugees are a reserved matter, social security is a reserved matter. The only way Nicola Sturgeon and Glasgow City Council can deal effectively with these issues is if people vote for Scotland to be an independent country.
Question Time R4 Today 1:10 on Sat 27th May, 2020.
Discussing INDEPENDENCE DAY in England on 4th July. Now that’s funny!
Amazed by Andy Burnham’s comments about 5 minutes in – he wished that England could have Scotland’s clarity of message with regard to COVID19!!!
Sadly we won’t hear his comments reported by BBC Shortbread though.
No wan talking to that Joe lol
Result
I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
Get a life! I say to such posters.
@robbo
I was going to but then my cognitive dissonance (correct spelling) kicked in.
No worries Robbo.
Your Dear Leader will make sure you can get that form filled and signed so you can get your kit off and into a shower with a nice wee lassie and be protected from ‘hate speech’ while doing so.
Thank god we aren’t living under any of those bigots who aren’t letting that kind of thing happen. Eh?
@jfngw
Thanks. I knew you had to be good for something. If you ever want to point out anything else you know you can feel free. Right?
Until then im happy to have you as a kind of proof reader.
Cheers
Ottomanboi
I suggest you get some perspective. 😉
Science in Lockdown: the effects of COVID-19 on research and researchers
link to royalsociety.org
So who else here is voting for the Dear Leader because they want to use the GRA and hate speech laws to get in close and personal with the ladies or wee lassies?
Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution than the Scottish Government currently is and much fairer than any of you give them credit for.
Come on. This is the brave new Scotland where anything goes. You can be honest about it without judgment. Come out of the closet. Its 2020. Your voting for the personal access to females aren’t you?
@Joe 5.06pm
That’s fair enough, but very much a minority view in Scotland, although admittedly much of the lumpen proletariat in Engerlund has fallen for the politics of the oligarchs and chosen the wrong side in every one of the major choices of equality or oligarchy, individuality or totality, truth and falsehood.
The authoritarianism of Putin and his creature Trump will of course be entirely palatable to those behind Boris.
“Ottomanboi says:
27 June, 2020 at 5:24 pm
I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
Get a life! I say to such posters”
Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.
@Ottomanboi
I too have a wide circle of friends. Thankfully nobody close to me has had any serious Covid-19 symptoms. I do know of many who have had symptoms, or had mild cases. One of my daughter’s close friends aged 25 died of Covid due to a compromised immune system resulting from cancer treatment.
Your subjective lack of experience, and apparently lack of empathy, is not a good yardstick by which to measure our responses to this pandemic.
@Joe at 5:32 & 5.45 pm
Read the fuckin’ room, you’re commenting on a site where most are trying to address the issues you highlight.
While you’re on the line caller, do you have any, ANY issues with UK Parliament in Westminster coz previously you said the leadership was shit?
“Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution”
Joe.
If is a very big word, there’s not a snowballs chance in hell of Westminster offering a referendum on Scottish independence.
Just as there’s no chance of the Chagossian people ever getting back home due to Westminster breaching International law.
RepublicofScotland
You wrote “This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence”
No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.
There are people in both England and Scotland that are unsavoury types. They may be despicable because of their views on race, religion, whatever … but to suggest that somehow they represent a nation is the skullduggery of the pathetic and inept.
If you like, I could copy and paste a few of the more loony comments from previous threads here and present them as being an example of a average Scot? Would that be Ok? Would it be correct?
Even you are not that dumb.
Why not just accept that ordinary folk in England are just the same as ordinary folk elsewhere and leave it at that.
Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.
In developed, civilised western society, the type of politics you peddle (based upon hatred and difference) will make not get traction. Yes there will be extremists that that will gather round some ridiculous ideology .. but it will always be fringe.
Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.
@Dan
Can’t someone hold the position that WM and Holyrood are currently total shit? Being a Scottish Nationalist (hanging in there) Holyrood is the one im watching the most. Ive already given up on WM. Further I didn’t expect to need to point out WM bullshit on the premier Scottish Independence blog. WOS does a fantastic job of it.
@Andy Ellis
Yes, definitely a minority view. Wait until certain legislation gets in and the penny drops with the electorate. The sentiments I expressed will start to increase in the population exponentially. SNP supporters at that point will be like the National Socialists who voted for the economic policies while turning a blind eye to all the icky other stuff.
@RepublicofScotland
‘Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.’
Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?
When you writing a novel?
@Sensibledave
Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.
That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.
“Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.”
As if dave isn’t culturally-constrained in his cognitive and ethical capabilities. 🙂
Requirements of Democracy
Chapter 34
The Psychological Underpinnings
of Political Behavior
link to pprg.stanford.edu
Capella @ 5.18pm
I couldn’t agree more with your comments. Immigration is indeed a reserved matter and this tragedy further reinforces why we need independence.
But I have anger at Nicola Sturgeon. As First Minister she should condemn and condemn absolutely the inhuman treatment that Westminster imposes on refugees through its hostile environment and its private contractors who like camp guards implement the most inhuman of policies to people, many of whom will have fled the most harrowing of circumstances.
Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland. By not commenting, by not decrying what has been happening here in a Scotland, she consigns herself to nothing less than Westminster’s Gaultier General.
The Park Hotel was a lockdown camp. A camp every much a camp as those in 1930s Poland and elsewhere. Friday was a butcher shop. Something that will forever remain scarred into all those
who experienced the tragedy.
Yes Capella, it is a Westminster reserved power, but unlike the Vichy French, i do not want to look away, and neither should Nicola Sturgeon.
“Nicola Sturgeon gives indicative dates for pubs and hairdressers to re-open” – Evening Times 24/06/20
Just one question – when are we going to get an indicative date for the next independence referendum?
Yes it would be nice if people on here did try to acquire some perspective. The empirical data shows us that people of working age are no more likely to die from this than the flu and even less for children but that doesn’t stop the covid busybody, doom-mongers on here from comparing this to the bubonic plague.
Professor Neil Ferguson told us that without a lockdown 500,000 people would die here by now (still often repeated by dithering nicola and boris johnson). But 500,000 people world wide haven’t died yet, the statistics are not dissimilar from the by yearly flu outbreak. According to the doom-mongers many millions of people should be dead by now in countries that didn’t lockdown or couldn’t lockdown.
The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.
Sensible@4.25
Wow, did you think that up on your own?
A positive vision for an Independent Scotland, probably 95% the opposite of the current situation under Westminster rule.
Apologies for the late reply, just been out having a wee 5pm cocktail, beer, wine gathering with the neighbours.
Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.
My vision for an Indy Scotland has been posted over the years.
Try again Son.
I see the covid stats are going the same way as GERS, they hide the England total in the UK total, just like they hide spending in England in the UK total and tell Scotland how bad it is performing.
@Sensibledave
“In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of”
——————————————————————
When are you gonna get it through your thick fucking skull that Scots did not not vote to remain in the UK, Scots voted for independence it was your people that swung the vote against us and the reason we refer to your blessed union flag as the butchers apron is that it’s a symbol of murder,rape & genocide on a scale that makes Nazi Germany look like a teddy bears picnic, just ask the native Tazmanians oh sorry you can’t do that can you Dave there’s none left yes there were Scots involved the Alistair Jacks of the day but they’re your people Dave not ours now fuck off
Joe says:
27 June, 2020 at 6:08 pm
@Sensibledave
Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.
That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.
I say
I second that, third it , fourth it….Too many from the far left angry brigade corrupting the SNP. As per if we only paid Asylum seekers more money and gave them better conditions that maniac wouldn’t have stabbed and killed and it’s all England’s fault.. bla bla bla. Irresponsible soft and naive rubbish. Unfortunately the SNP becoming a vehicle for the Corbyn fellow travelers.
@Joe at 6:02 pm
You may hold that position but it could be conceived by some as being a little extreme as our society still functions to most intents and purposes.
Having spent time in Romania just after Ceausescu “left the building” (which was bloody huge by the way) I’ve seen first hand what a really shit State looks like when failed by their Government.
Orphanages filled with abandoned boys, many so damaged they sat unresponsive rocking in their own piss, meal times were a joy as we ate a watery “stew” made with a boiled bone and fat with some donated damaged vegetables thrown in.
I don’t think we are quite there yet…
Don’t get me wrong, there is certainly a degree of political shit wafting aboot, but that is what we are trying to address.
You’ve stated you are a democrat, or at least expressed concerns that it is being undermined. Therefore I would hope that rather than ranting (which we all like to do at times) about single issues which most on here are aware exist only through the dark actions of the big corporates to be used as a divide and rule tool, you sit down round the table and agree a plan to fix the issues you and many others see.
“The great thing in this world is not so much where you stand, as in what direction you are moving.”
Gary
You wrote “Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.”
… what is your point Gary? Is it pehaps that the vast majority of folk engage in inclusive social interactivity without a second thought about the sort of divisive s**t that you engage in here on Wings? If it is, I agree.
BTW, if you can think of country and and capital city that has greater degree of immigration, diversity, inclusiveness and lack of trouble … as mine. Then let me know.
It certainly isn’t Scotland!
Together with the likes of RoS, you choose to highlight the negative occurances of the few – and present them as representitive of the many.
Why do you do that?
Last time I was in Glasgow late at night, about a year ago, it was a very scary place. There were drunks, fights and sectarian s**t kicking off too. There was open aggressive reaction to my accent in one bar. Is it fair, or correct in any way, for me to then project experience as encompassing the characteristics of the average Scot?
You are a disgrace Sir.
Willie
Poland in the 1930s ? Are you serious? This is the most nutty outburst I’ve heard for a long time.
You make the far left look moderate.
As the Tories say : keep them on the same page and watch the votes come our way.
“The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.”
As no evidence is supplied to support this opinion, I’m happy to consider this perspective to be unsubstantiated denial that a respect for public health ethics is even more necessary during a pandemic.
Ethical and Legal Considerations in Mitigating Pandemic Disease: Workshop Summary.
4 Ethical Issues in Pandemic Planning and Response
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Apparently, dave considers a patriotic desire to defend one’s civic society from the right-wing populism of another nation, to be divisive. That’s because dave is here to punt British nationalism, which is now virtually indistinguishable from right-wing, populist, racism.
31st june, what does it actually mean? what happens or is meant to happen?
@sensibledave
That must have been one heck of a night, sectarianism, bigotry and unbridled violence. Hope you were OK once you woke up.
@Capella,
Used car salesmen/women are the same as Tory politicians,
they will be your best friend,promise you everything just to get that sale/vote,
after the sale/election you never see them, you will never get a call back if you need anything,
until 4/5 years later when you need a new car or another election then they are again your best friend and will promise you everything and anything,
strangely enough thousands of citizens fall for their bullsh@t every time.
@Dan
My wife is from a similar country. She got milk twice a week and her doll was a charitable gift from America. Communism is great isnt it?
However i don’t see how that relates? I know we live in a great country relative to others – that’s why I left the EU.
You do realise that under the SNP women will lose their rights to private spaces free from biological males WHILE under the pressure of potentially being jailed by hate speech laws if they cause offense?
You might not care that much. You might not see it as an issue.
But here are 3 things that dont care about your opinion:
1 – most of the electorate are going to lash back against this if it gets implemented and it will be ugly because most dont even realise whats going on yet
2 – you wont get your referendum
3 – those policies are only the beginning.
Now, forgive me for my lack of patience, while I repeat what ive been saying for a few years now:
The only plan of action for a voter under these circumstances is TO REFUSE TO VOTE FOR A PARTY THAT WISHES TO IMPLEMENT THESE FUCKING policies.
But here is the thing that makes me detest many on this board – while people are casting a blind eye to this and going forward and ‘lending the SNP their vote’ they have the temerity, the arrogance, the sheer lack of self reflection, to look down on others for voting for things like Brexit or for Trump.
Its jaw dropping.
@schrodingers cat
31st june, what does it actually mean?
You’ve invented a new calendar?
jnfgw
… so, after the comments I have been involved in, and the nature of the outpourings of ridiculousness from Gary and RoS, your input is to doubt my word. Is it ’cause I is English?
So that’s you, Gary, RoS are joint winners of today’s bigot of the day award. You have even outdone the usual winner old “pseudo” himself.
@sensibledave
Quack.
Regarding the incident in Glasgow yesterday, most ordinary folks I know didn’t realise just how many refugees and asylum seekers we have.
The general reaction is – what the f..ck!
For someone who has supposedly been persecuted to within their life to be complaining about food, wifi and hotel accommodation beggars belief.
Sorry, the sooner we shut the door, the better.
I had the stupidity to look at Nicola Sturgeons Twater feed by Christ they are a lot of fkn nutters out there , all the blame for the events in Glasgow are her fault , yep just her all on her own she caused the whole bloody mess , I give up I honestly thought we had a small minority of nutters but Christ on a bike they are all over the place spewing venom and bile .
Ok listen up fkrs ,
Nicola Sturgeon does not control immigration , got that ? its fkn simple Pretty face in the English home office controls movement of people in and out of this island , Not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon
The first thing Nicola needs to do in the next daily news update is make sure these arse wipes understand we don’t control Who enters or leaves the country the English Home Office does
Unfortunately Nicola set herself up for a fall on this one , she has no say in who arrives here ,when they do she has no say in how they are treated by the English government , but as usual the English governments mistakes all of a sudden become the SNPs fault when it goes tits up ,
Nicola you need to let these dummies know where the blame lies and it’s at Westmonsters front fkn door
Rober Graham
I think you’ll find that the SG volunteered to take in a disproportionate number of these people.
Quite a few areas within the UK refused, quite correctly in my opinion.
Now that Stamner is cracking down I can see the Corbynistas seeing their natural home up north in the SNP. They’d be most welcome in such congenial company.
Hardly need to worry as Independence is being substituted for wokery and they can use their well honed skills to make the SNP just as unelectable as the party they nearly destroyed.
Oh fk
Listen up Pete
We don’t control immigration , got it WE DONT CONTROL Immigration , has it sunk in yet ?
THE ENGLISH GOVERNMENT CONTROL IMMIGRATION
Are you fkn listening ?
Say it after me we don’t control immigration it’s really easy to get the hang of it , well easy for most
“Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?
When you writing a novel?”
Joe.
60,00 plus dead from the virus and you’re making light of it
Wow!, just wow! What a dick.
@Pete
And the ugly truth is that many come from parts of the world where males are indoctrinated into believing women are 2nd class people and no better than possessions and see our free society as against their morality.
But shhhh…dont tell the folk on here. It will upset them and they will call you a bigot until its far too late. Just like with everything else. Their fantasies are more important than other peoples lived realities.
No Robert Graham she cannot virtue signal enough about welcoming asylum seekers and opening our borders .She’d rather march to that tune than any Independence one
@RepublicofScotland
No. Im making fun of you. But its true, I am indeed a dick.
Just a thought for people to consider:
See this BLM rioting and the demands for white folk to apologise, and the ‘erasing white people from history’ stuff?
What happens if you fill a country like ours up with poor immigrants, whose own country the elite and their rich mates have destroyed, keep them on benefit and tell them ordinary white British folk (or even European) are the reason for their woes, just like BLM are doing?
You’d have a rabid dog to unleash at will with only the maintenance of a police state to keep the peace.
@Joe
I’m not getting into a laborious repetitive cycle of what we’ve already said.
You’ve been hanging out on here long enough to have read the very real concerns most on here have expressed with regard to Self ID.
We are well aware of its divisive nature and the progression of the Hate Speech Bill as an attempt to silence opposition to it.
We are also well aware of the wider implications focusing on those particular policies at this particular time brings.
I asked that you read the room.
Don’t be like Sue.
link to twitter.com
In case you hadn’t noticed, growing inequality, collapsing industries, strain on our health and social services don’t just happen under communism.
“No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.”
Sensibledave.
Apparently the comments say differently, you’d be surprised what commentors will say behind their keyboards of anonymity.
Take Joe’s 6.05pm comment for instance, which is on the verge of mocking the dead.
“Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.”
I didn’t say for one minute that English folk are uniquely horrible did I? But lets no pretend that ordinary folk don’t post distasteful comments from time to time they do.
@Robert Graham 7:20 pm
All the nutters I’ve seen on twitter are blaming wee Jimmy Crankie. That’s two insults for the price of one. Nicola just laps it up.
There is no point replying to Joe, sensibledave or Pete, they are here to gaslight, not debate. Now we have someone who is a Stanley Baxter fan (probably watched Parliamo Glasgow or came across it online).
@jfngw,
Jim Baxter 1967, Rangers, keepy happy at Wembley.
Mmmm!
Keepy uppy .
Sensible@7.03
Awe didums, I wondered how long it would take for the old chestnut,”Anti-English”,
is that the best you can come up with? seriously is that your take on the situation?
My comment on Westminster, is a comment on Westminster, the last time I looked Westminster rule covers this sorry excuse of an Island, so to say an Indy Scotland would be 95% the opposite of Westminster, is not Anti-English, if you think that is what I am referring to? there lies “your” problem.
Try again, this is a good laugh.
Nicola Sturgeon statemnt on the Glasgow incident:
Clearly there is already much speculation around this incident, which remains under investigation.
“I would urge everyone to avoid such speculation, to not share potentially harmful or upsetting material on social media and to follow police advice while investigations are underway
link to gov.scot
Sensible @ 3:51
“ There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it.”
Of course there is … What do you think Westminster was doing all the time the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act (1927) was going through both houses? Watching daytime TV?
It’s pretty straight forward really…
*Kingdom of Scotland (843)
*Kingdom of England (927)
*Kingdom of Ireland (1542)
*Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)
*Kingdom of Great Britain + Kingdom of Ireland = United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland (1801)
*United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland – Kingdom of Ireland = (United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (1921. Formalised 1927)
*(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland (2021?)
*Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of England (2030?)
Would you still call “Tomato & Vegetable Soup” without the veg “Tomato & Vegetable Soup”? Or would it be more accurate, nay logical, to call it “Tomato Soup”? Or because you recon it’s up to nobody else, you can go and call it “Tomato, Vegetable & Basil Soup” and if someone points out there’s no vegetable or basil, you can tell them to eff’off because it’s none of their business? So very exceptional of you!
BobMack@7.49
I think Keepy Happy sums it up better, Scotland pumped the “so called” World Champions, by playing keepy uppy.
Watch out I’ll be accused of hurting the feelings of some on here and being called “Anti-English”, Nothing could be further from the truth, but I’ll keep the fun rolling.
@Bob Mack
I know, I was having a laugh. I was waiting for the True Blue correction (I’m pretty sure Baxter1967 won’t be a Celtic fan).
Right-wing populism does have it’s supporter, but they tend to be Tories, UKIPers, BNP, England/Scotland First, Brexiteers, and general supporters of authoritarian racism.
Scotland is desperate for immigrants, who provide a positive effect on the economy, but immigration is a reserved matter. Some appear to want empathy and human compassion to be controlled from Westminster, as well. Just look at the state of these morally bankrupt troopers of British nationalism
@Dan
Unfortunately Dan there are just a few regular commenters here that I have seen solidly express the will to ‘not vote for the SNP under these circumstances’.
Its all about lending them a vote or trying to convince them out of it, or lighten the content etc.
However if the line is not drawn in the sand it doesnt matter.
Besides the Wingers here are actually the more grounded and realistic of the indy movement – to the point that Stuart Campbell himself is not exactly loved despite his immense contributions. Which is actually frightening to behold for anyone not in the bubble.
The fact is Dan, this club of dreamy eyed EU nationalists are going to have to get hurt before they learn. At that point it might just be possible to express an opinion outside of a very narrowly accepted window of debate and it actually not be sneered at. Unfortunately everyone else will get hurt with them.
@RepublicofScotland
I was laughing at you. You are much funnier than dead people. Even if you sit them around in funny positions with silly hats on.
Bob Mack: Scotland fan. Don’t support either side of the Sectarian United. I’ll leave you to your prejudices and bias confirmation through the green/ blue world you inhabit.
It’s just a coincidence that all the right wing nut jobs seem to be repeating the same message and photo of Nicola holding up a We Welcome Refugees poster .
Now if I was suspicious I might think the English government had a hand in events over the past three weeks , it would be easy , treat the asylum seekers like shit , toss them out of their flats , change the locks , take away any benefits on the pretence that they are being fed so they don’t need any money, then don’t have any checks as to the phycological state they are in , most of them have probably come from war zones so feel vulnerable , allow right wing nutters to protest unhindered, so racking up the temperature, light the match and stand back, Job Done .
Thanks Tory government but your so transparent it’s laughable , what isn’t fkn Laughable is Scottish people are in the firing line now that ain’t in any way fkn funny , b@*trds every one .
I hope folk are noticing how Joe is trying to position himself as being liberal and rational, despite his obvious predjudices. The same applies to dave.
National Past and Populism: The Re-Elaboration of Fascism and Its Impact on Right-Wing Populism in Western Europe
link to mtr.cool
@Robert Graham,
You called it just as it is. Chapeau!
@Baxter 1967,
I thought for a minute you were a soup connoisseur.The 67 pea and ham was superb
@Robert Graham
Solid thinking. Id expand it though. There is a reason the corporate world want open borders and it aint for the health of poor people from destroyed countries or even just for cheap labour.
Some folk on here make the left wing Canary resemble the Daily Mail.
Because the cancel culture/ Marxist cultural politics drives people to the right.
@Baxter1967,
You appear rattled. I bid you goodnight. Enjoy your soup.
@Bob Mack
I think it’s duck soup here tonight.
Robert Graham
You are correct that immigration is controlled by the UK government.
However, these people are not legal immigrants but refugees or asylum seekers which all countries sign up to under UN legislation.
Scotland and Glasgow in particular asked for a large number of those people to be sent here presumably for a payment and also to reinforce the caring nature of Scots.
This was not well publicised and it is only now that your normal hard working socially conservative Scots person is realising what has been signed up to in their name and they are not happy.
Most folks I know are saying – get them to f..k.
Baxter678.27
I am a Celtic fan, have been since a boy, I have a Jim Baxter video in the house, the man was a footballing genius.
Ability over the divide.
@jfngw,
I was thinking Keystone cops myself. They are just as jnept.
Bob Mack and jfngw
Good night too and enjoy your group think bubble. Try speaking to real folk for a change
@Gary45%,
Jim Baxter had no divide himself. Friends with many on all sides of Scotland’s various divisions.
Suggesting that hostility to right-wing populism signifies the support of cultural Marxism, indicates you don’t know what you’re talking about. A support for multi-cultural tolerance is simply an opposition to structural racism, and resistance against authoritarian racism.
Scottish ‘nationalism’ is supportive of multi-cultural tolerance. English/British nationalism, not so much (see Brexit).
I knew J. Baxter when I was young he was about seven years older than me both born in Hill of Beath we ‘clipped’ for sides in the ‘Haws’ park on many a Sunday afternoon played the short side across the park jackets for the goals. Just a broken down steel rope with a tar covering round the pitch then held up by short posts.
Full of fun and nonsense, dribbled round us often for fun, he was one the older ones late teens by then or into the early twenties but we got a game at twelve and thirteen as I was then. No quarter given, tough times for us few ‘budding’ younger players.
Raith Rovers would not be too happy to know about his Sunday football but seemed a good bloke to me then and had a few regular friends there from going through the local school which was right next to the park. Bought a pub ‘Silver Birch’ I think on the edge of Hill of Beath and Cowdenbeath, I used to drink in it way back then. Bookies in an old shack round the back. 🙂
Happy days!
Haw’s = Hill of Beath Hawthorn’ Juvenile team then now Juniors’
We’re only having this discussion because someone chose to play the man not the ball and had a go at my irrelevant nome de plume, not politics. Then presupposing I support a certain team because he typecasts people which is a classic identity politics trait. But anyway since you mention it aye slim Jim best Scottish player ever apart from Law.
Brit Nat propaganda on TV never fails to amaze me. Keen to rubbish Brazil and USA on Covid deaths but fail to mention that in last seven days average confirmed daily death toll in England is 150 compared to 5 in Scotland. They hide England’s much worse stats be referring to Uk deaths when there are four health services taking their own decisions.
Why does Scotland’s media fall in line when it is obvious that unless we close our borders and impose quarantine for travellers from hotshots like England all our good work will be undone.
@RobertKnight 7:56
Could I make a minor adjustment to your very precise {& correct} naming of the political entities in these islands over the years
*(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (2021?)
*Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of Great Britain (2030?) or KGB for short
“Aye slim Jim best scottish player ever apart from Law”
Take it Jinky J and King Kenny never existed then ? Behave baxter
I have no time for The Rangers or Celtic but agree that Law and Baxter are the best Scottish footballers in my lifetime
@Gery45%
Baxter was a good player but many other Scottish players achieved much more than him. He had a fairly short time at his peak, he never seemed to regain this after he broke his leg (I hope my memory is correct here, it’s over 50 years ago).
@Baxter1967
I don’t know why you are having a go at Bob Mack it was me that started this using Stanley Baxter. I tend to find it suspicious when someone turns up to tell me SNP supporters are anti-English, I’m half English, most of my relatives are English, so your definition is either fake or you are uninformed.
Alex Ferguson rated Law the best ever just saying. Dalgleish goal at Wembley in 77 and the pitch invasion my favourite Scotland memory
I can’t find the report of boris,s Union Jack being on the plane upside down
Are they hiding it
Anyway
I see Nessie has been spotted making an appearance 5 times this month.Now why hasn’t the BBC or others reported this? We wouldn’t want them to be reporting anything to put Scotland in the hearts of the world again would we.
We must be Scotland bad SNP bad Scot Gov bad at al times- rinse repeat .
O/T Here they come. Just received an email from a local estate agent with branches all over I believe.
‘Since the beginning of June, we have seen an increase in Londoners looking to move north of the border. This coincides with our friends in Scotland beginning their phased return to normality, with high-streets reopening and lockdown measures easing. If this news has made you dream of the Highland life, we have a Grade A listed Georgian house for you on the Moray coast built by Archibald Simpson in 1827.
More coming down here too. Viewed a house yesterday where previous viewer was looking to move from St Albans.
Sorry… that St name should read St Albans!
Well that is weird! It won’t print correct name.
Try ST A l b a n s.
If not I give up. Watford close enough!
I see the top virologist of the forum Bipod is spouting his usual bollocks today.
You need to read more as some doctors what the difference between a flu influenza.a corona virus and a bacterium.
@shug
I think it’s a red herring, it will depend on what side of the plane you look at and where the imaginary flag pole is.
You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades
The one thing they have in common is bitterness and hatred
They hate catholic’s, Irish, polish, french, germans. Really they just hate everyone that is not english
Ten minute discussion there on radio 5 live about the quarantine rules that Boris has decided to bring in for foreign travellers without consultation with the other three colonies have not been given the nod through in Wales.
UK has power to make the rules on borders but the devolved administrations have the whip hand in matters concerning public
health when planes and boats etc arrive admits big Auntie.
Well we know all this already.
Scotland not even mentioned 🙂
Tartan elephant in the room kinda thing.
Look forward to what SGov decide…. next week.
Pity to throw away progress to date…init! Eh! ….init? 🙁
Ask some doctors even what the difference is between a flu(influenza) an unknown corona virus and a bacterium(bubonic plague) black death or whatever.
This wold appear appropriate homework for some. Scotland’s government needs to value its’ legal duty of care for Scotland’s public, more than its’ pseudo-legal constitutional obligations to Westminster’s assumed authority. Time Westminster was telt what’s what by an EQUAL partner, under international law.
THE ETHICS OF RATIONALISM.
link to opensiuc.lib.siu.edu
Aye its weird Shug considering most of them are of French decent more so than owt else.
@Meindevon
It’s the A*lba bit, the Rev has it banned, he doesn’t like Sear Elba.
@call me dave
Same on BBC TV News, announce it for UK and refer to British travellers, no indication that the devolved countries have an input, they probably don’t even know or could be bothered to check. The parochialism of the BBC in London is unparalleled.
@shug
I posted this link yesterday just as the Glasgow incident was starting.
callmedave says:
26 June, 2020 at 2:10 pm
Air farce One: Maybe a repaint required.
link to munguin.wordpress.com
Oops! Sticky fingers there…
Aye if you take a look. It’ll be OK from left to right on the other side.
If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it doesn’t, then British constitutionalism can not be considered supportive of Scotland’s civic society. It isn’t (see Brexit).
SORRY….If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it does, then
I see Bella Caledonia thinks you can’t be a member of the SNP and vote for another party. How dim can you be.
Let me put my wee tale about Jim Baxter.
I visited a friend in the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary who was in for a kidney transplant.
In the same two bed ward was the bold Jim Baxter, in for a liver transplant. (No comment about that).
The surgical teams for each patient were coded by colours, and above each bed was a big sign. Above Jim’s the sign was “The Green Team”.
When I joked about it he just said “Aye. the doctors in here have a grand sense of humour”.
A fine fellow and the best left half Scotland ever had.
Shug says:
“You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades…
…Really they just hate everyone that is not English”
That’s not the official line:
link to youtube.com
I see Pete Wishart has become engaged, I hope she doesn’t ask him any questions, libel to be blocked or in her case locked out. Of course unlikely to get through the wedding vows, the ‘Do You…’ part will almost certainly end up with the officiator being blanked.
jfngw
Years of wandering alone through the valley of the shadow the
Union Jack, has led SNP loyalists to believe that the SNP hold all the blueprints, patents, copywrites, licences and road-maps associated with independence … Have they locked them in a safe and forgotten the combination?
Co.Blimp IV
I like the “Official Line” it’s good fun and no offence taken. Thanks.
Baxter1967@9.24
Apologies, if needed? regarding any connection with Baxter 1967.
Jinky J best of that era.
Meindevon@10.19
Yes it is a worry, regarding the increase in travelers coming into Scotland.
I have heard a few stories this week about campervans coming north, not being allowed access, then spouting Anti Scottish abuse at the locals, yes Anti Scottish abuse.
Personally the area where I live, there are some roads closed off, locals know all about them, but we are seeing more vehicles driving along roads that are closed, “the sign of a tourist who shouldn’t be here”.
A strong border control is the only answer, if not there is no point in trying to contain the virus in Scotland.
Ladies and gentlemen given that Sir Patrick Vallance the Governments chiefs Medical Advisor used to work for Glaxo Smith Kline and they signed a contract to deliver covid vaccines to the NHS shortly after Dominic Cummings paid them a visit at Barnards Castle don’t you think that’s somewhat fishy? GSK have a very chequered history when it comes to untested products. Now they have a captive frightened market.
Hello lurkers .Your hairs getting long.
Dogbiscuit
Get tae.
The Politics of Fear: What Right-Wing Populist Discourses Mean
link to semanticscholar.org
Re closing the border.
So, you stop all trains and road traffic heading North.
Do you stop people heading south?
What about the airports? Quarantine anyone flying into Scotland for 14 days if they’ve come from England?
Isolate a whole fucking country?
How much essential freight is transported north?
It’s not going to happen. Never mind it’s impracticable; it would cause serious political damage for the Scot Govt.
I’m not denying there may be substance to the biscuit’s conspiracy theory, but I’ve already established he is a man of the right, and I recognise the politics of fear and populism when I see it.
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
the dug on, time fur beddie baws.
bye
Chang Sha @ 9;41
*Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)
KoGB was the result of the union of KoS and KoE in 1707.
If you remove either the KoS or KoE from the equation, then what remains is NOT the KoGB but the ‘other half’ of the pair of Kingdoms that combined to make the KoGB. (Principality of Wales being part of the KoE since the C16th). Think of the former Czechoslovakia as an example – without the two constituent parts being unified, it ceased to exist and each part reverted to its pre-union status.
The term “united Kingdom” appears in the 1707 Acts between Scotland and England, but was descriptive in referring to Scotland and England being “united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain”. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of Great Britain”.
The term “United Kingdom” appears in the 1800 Acts between Great Britain and Ireland, and formed the title of the new State: “united into one kingdom by the name of “the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland””. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”
Use of “United Kingdom” should have ceased in 1921/1927 when the Kingdom of Ireland was dissolved. With Scottish independence, use of the “Kingdom of Great Britain” should also cease with each constituent part reverting to its pre-union status.
@CBB
You add something here. Thanks to you its a bit like being in a decent pub where people are having a loud joust with words, sharing stern opinions. You add to this by taking the role of the guy at the corner of the bar, pissed out his face who occasionally shouts incoherently something thats only relevant to himself
The British constitution and the hierarchy of administrative government in Brexitania, is inadequate to the public health challenges presented by covid-19, and needs to take a secondary role to international law, IMHO. Once it’s done that, it can be permanently resigned to history, as far as I’m concerned. 🙂
Full text.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Thank fuck we got rid of the Wings Troll Hunters.
robbo
Bob Mack
And all the other pricks who childishly chase down anybody they suspect of not being a member of their Wings Clique.
They spend all their time handing out special treatment to these so called trolls.
And all because these posters had the utter fuckin cheek to have a different opinion to the juvenile Wings Clique.
Just saying.
Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 2017 Oct;126(7): 890-897
Antagonism Trait Facets and Comprehensive Psychosocial Disability: Comparing Information Across Self, Informant, and Interviewer Reports
link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
And just for the record, it took a decade for me to get it together after my brain injury, but I’m in full control of my executive functions now. Though I admit I’ve got a temper and not that long a fuse.
From Evaluation to Prediction: Behavioral Effects and Biological Markers of Cognitive Control Intervention
link to hindawi.com
The second half of my degree was a bit nippy, as I’d mangled my brain half way through the course. I reckon I wouldn’t be the individual I am today though, without having to learn a bit about post-modern critical social theory. For those who have a reflexive hostility towards social science, (I see you), it’s the cognitive science component that distinguishes its’ practice from anything that could be described as “cultural Marxism”.
Interpreting the International Right to Health in a Human Rights-Based Approach to Health
link to hhrjournal.org
Robertknight
It would by my reckoning be called – The United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland, AKA England. Come to think of it there has never been a valid reason for not calling the current set-up “AKA England”.