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The Shining

Posted on June 27, 2020 by

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  1. 27 06 20 08:57

    The Shining | speymouth

430 to “The Shining”

  1. Achnababan says:

    Sums him up nicely.. made me chuckle

  2. dunks says:

    How do you do it Chris? Seriously, how?

    Scotlands cartoon makar, if there is such a thing, and if not…it’s just been invented.

    Simply genius.

  3. Bob Mack says:

    There are some things that just won’t polish.

    Fabulous cartoon Chris. I envy your talent to tell a long story in one picture.

  4. Stoker says:

    Thank you Chris! Now away to make sure Carlaw & Co see it. 🙂

  5. Ian McCubbin says:

    Totally apt, well done ?

  6. Ian McCubbin says:

    Ah emojis don’t translate.

  7. winifred mccartney says:

    Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff – every single Scottish Tory voted against it including Sec of State and ex Sec of State. Brass neck does not even begin to describe him.

  8. Stoker says:

    @ Ian 7:56 am – Two dots & a closed bracket. Make sure you leave a space from the end of your sentence before doing it. Good luck!

  9. Mike d says:

    You cannot polish a turd.

  10. Achnababan says:

    Is the wifie wie the hammer tool Kezia Dugdale by any chance Chris?

  11. Morgatron says:

    Lovely Chris, perfectly capturing Carlaws grubby politics and his merry gang of neathderols who bring nothing to Scottish politics except keeping chairs warm, drawing large salaries and raising false accusations, feeding the bbc & smears. They are the very reason that PR needs abolished at Holyrood. Marvellous Chris and ta for the chuckle.

  12. MightyS says:

    That’s Glinner’s account been suspended.

    Some days, I don’t think we’ll ever win against them.

  13. Ottomanboi says:

    A long MUST READ from Frank Furedi, but worth it.
    I admire Western culture, what remains of it, but i could never be a ‘Westerner’, too much self loathing, too much guilt and navel gazing with the fingers hovering over the auto-destruct button.

  14. galamcennalath says:

    What’s the old saying? You can polish a Tory as much as you want, but it’s still a Tory.

  15. jfngw says:

    I’m sure Jackson Carlaw will be suspending those MP’s from Scotland who voted against weekly testing of NHS & care staff, after all it’s one of his priorities is it not. He certainly talks about testing often enough, I suspect he will stop until her thinks we have forgotten, we never forget though.

    Not only a failed car salesman but a failed party leader to add to his CV.

    O/T Why does BBC Scotland keep on asking ‘why are you not following England’ in the corona virus response. With zero deaths compared to 183 yesterday you would think the question should be ‘why are England not following Scotland’s lead’ but when your dripped in colonialism it’s a impossible mind step to take. The power of the BBC emanates from the centre, when they appear in a region, and the BBC see Scotland as a region, they talk down to you, they see you as inferior, and as CameronB would say ‘I have extensive training in that area’.

  16. @Achnababan,

    think that`s a tape dispenser 🙂

  17. Gary45% says:

    Classic Chris, you nailed it.
    You beat me to it;))

  18. jfngw says:

    I see John Major believes Covid will make independence more difficult. I’m not sure what analysis he is using but being a Tory it could be we are not reducing our pension costs as efficiently as they are in England.

  19. Willie says:

    The man indeed whose party voted against Testing.

    And now he snipes incessantly but at the same time wants all the controls removed so that folks can go back to work and bugger le wave second.

    But look at the worker in Mr Cairn’s cartoon. Could that be a sweat she’s in, like the sweat on a sweat shop. Yep, typifies Mr Carlaw and his ilk perfectly.

  20. jfngw says:

    BBC Scotland are not happy their anti-Scotland message is not getting across, support just keeps growing (well not reducing anyway). They have sent out their coded message ‘powder-keg’ in the hope they can get some serious rioting in the streets of Glasgow, it must be getting near the last throw of the dice for them.

  21. Andy Ellis says:

    @Might S 9.07am

    It was only a matter of time. The issue is what to do about it: either those who support Glinner & Stu do something about it and use other forums like Mastodon, Gab, Manyverse, Minds etc, or they accept that their free speech is constrained by the dictates of the regressive men’s rights activists behind the trans extremists.

    Seems to me part of any new list party (or indeed post indy party representing those who agree with scientific reality) should be the protection of free speech with strong US style constitutional protection.

  22. PacMan says:

    jfngw says: 27 June, 2020 at 9:48 am

    O/T Why does BBC Scotland keep on asking ‘why are you not following England’ in the corona virus response. With zero deaths compared to 183 yesterday you would think the question should be ‘why are England not following Scotland’s lead’

    Considering the size of England,it’s population and how it’s distributed throughout it’s land mess, it is obvious different types of responses are required for different parts of England.

    I wonder if the question of regional responses to the health crisis for different parts of England was asked to the BBC Scotland they would be speechless as it doesn’t fit in with their narrative of Scotland/SNP bad?

  23. Republicofscotland says:

    Nice one Chris, a Tory wouldn’t be a Tory without the obligatory Brass Neck of dishonour.

    Meanwhile the Times newspaper (in Scotland) political editor lied to Scotland’s FM Nicola Sturgeon during her Covid-19 daily bulletin, saying to her that AUOB marches were going ahead very soon, when infact that’s not the case, which prompted Sturgeon to plead with them not to hold any mass marches right now, and in the process cast a cloud shame over the movement.

    Of course this kind of grubby wee lies from unionist news rags is nothing new, in my opinion all it does is diminish their already flagging reputation as a fair and honest reporting news outlet. I’m sure the Times newspaper in Scotland will see sales drop after this disgraceful attempt to blacken the name of the AUOB.

    Don’t buy the Times hit them where it hurts in the pocket.

  24. Republicofscotland says:

    Leading Labour branch office in Scotland activist Sean Baillie has quit the party due to Labours leader and millionaire Knight of the Realm Sir Keir Starmer opposing our democratic right to a second Scottish independence referendum.

  25. jfngw says:

    @Andy Ellis

    It would seem twitters aim is to be the communication of the ‘Hello’ reader, it’s what they want and what the politicians want.

    Mastodon is just as restrictive and your instance will be blocked by others if you tread on controversial (in their opinion) territory. Gab is just another version of Mastodon but with some dubious members, seems to be the choice of the far-right.

    The problem of moving to these small players is you are stuck in a bubble, the minority fetish lobbyists will have won. They will go unhindered in their normalisation of of their pet fetish’s.

  26. jfngw says:


    England is not organised to respond in the way you suggest, The councils of England do not have the power required and I can’t see WM ever giving it to them. If they did that they would also certainly need to increase Scotland’s powers, a definite no-no for them.

    Not sure of the land mass comment, Scotland’s land mass is 2/3rd of England and more difficult a terrain when an outbreak occurs in a more remote area.

  27. Republicofscotland says:

    Edwina Currys ex-PM toyboy John Major, who vehemently opposes Scottish independence, for many reason including England losing Trident and its seat at the UN Security Council, has said on that bastion of the union radio station, Radio 4, that Scottish independence will be much harder now to obtain due to the pandemic.

    Major must surely be aware that the polls suggest otherwise, and that being part of this union for 313 years has been a far bigger hinderance to Scotland and Scots and their development than this pandemic.

  28. Effijy says:

    Another good Scottish saying for people of the Carlaw calibre
    Is his ability to crawl under a snakes belly while wearing a top hat.

    As a failed car dealer he will also be aware of the term for selling and old banger.

    It’s a Tar Boiler with a Wax job.

    Exactly what the Tory party are best described as!

  29. HYUFD says:

    Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.

    Scotland would have to leave it however

  30. Effijy says:

    The site below will be confirming 10,000,000 tested Covid positive today.
    There will also be confirmed 500,000 Covid deaths globally.

    We know the Tories are hiding 20,000 plus deaths and many of the other
    Corrupt governments such as in Trumpland will be playing the same game.

    The third world nations can not afford testing or recording so I would in no way
    Be surprised if the real numbers were double those recorded.

    Queue the Unionist Trolls to tell us it’s all lies and it’s just the Common Cold.

  31. Andy Ellis says:

    @jfngw 10.57am

    People in the Yes movement who agree with Stu and Glinner’s position on this issue have to make a choice in the end. It’s become obvious that the chilling effect of being othered by a-scientific flat-earthers means you either have to agree with their woo-woo, or (as I suspect most will do) keep your head down and avoid saying anything about it.

    I see what you mean about being in a bubble, but if those held guilty of thought crime are to be permanently excluded from other platforms, what alternative is there? I have zero faith twitter will change its stance, anymore than I now believe the SNP will be rescued from the folly of its current stance on the issue.

    People talk a good game, but in the end what have those who disagree with twitters actions (or those of the SNP in similar vein), need to ask what they’ve achieved. Stu’s twitter account remains suspended. Glinner’s is now suspended. The trans lobby remains entrenched in the SNP and appears to have carte blanche from the leadership. No action is taken against them, nor are they effectively combatted by most in the party apart from a few brave individuals like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine.

  32. Capella says:

    re Twitter ban for glinner – perhaps it’s up to too-big-to-fail JK Rowling to make the point about free speech and science denying censorship. She could probably fund a rival social media platform.

    The new ISP can challenge the gender nonsense in the one place where they can make a difference, the next Holyrood election.

  33. jfngw says:


    Oh look your back with if you don’t bend the knee we will punish you rhetoric. You are welcome to keep Trident, the quicker it is removed from Scotland the better.

    We could have possibly aligned with Russia but it looks like the Tories beat us to it, where is that Russia report your party are hiding?

  34. Andy Ellis says:

    @Capella 11.53am

    I hope you’re right about the ISP: we certainly need some alternative as the SNP appears to be a lost cause. It seems to have been a fairly amateurish start IMO, and I’m not convinced they will reach “escape velocity” to gain a significant number of MSPs without upping their game or coming up with some big hitters?

    I doubt JKR is that bothered about constructing a twitter alternative. As an individual she’s pretty untouchable due to her position and wealth. There are already alternative platforms, but as pointed out earlier, people are loathed to use things that haven’t reached critical mass. Going forward those supporting a list only party like ISP or any future WoS party need to look at organising on a federated, open source community where the can’t be de-platformed or banned.

  35. Capella says:

    Great cartoon BTW. The scandal of Tory MPs voting down testing for nurses needs to be made more public.

    We also heard this morning that the Home Office is responsible for moving asylum seekers from their flats in communities, where they had support, into city centre hostels where they had reduced financial support. Alison Thewliss was interviewed on R Scotland this morning and made the point that both the Scottish Government and Glasgow City Council had expressed concern to the Home Office about this policy and the negative impact on already traumatised individuals.
    This was done by the private company who carries out Home Office orders. The reason given was the corona virus lockdown.

  36. Ottomanboi says:

    Some Scots did very well out of the British empire, Sutherland, Jardine, Matheson..
    No need for woke hand wringing or sackcloth, it’s simply history from which we learn about the true nature of globalist imperialism, its schemes, projects and fork tongued agents.
    The Afghan Taliban attempted to eradicate opium poppy cultivation. Under US occupation and patronage it restarted.
    Using narcotics and intoxicants to weaken cultures is an old imperialist trick. Viruses are rather handy too.

  37. Beaker says:

    @winifred mccartney says:
    27 June, 2020 at 7:57 am
    “Brilliant! The man who has gone on about testing every week at FMQ’s should be reminded daily that 131 WM Tories voted against testing for NHS staff and Care staff”

    At the risk of appearing pedantic, it was 331 Tories who voted against testing, which makes it even worse.

    Hopefully we are not going the same way as the USA. Following Trump’s latest rally, news is that several Secret Service staff and a lot of the attendees are now self-isolating due to symptoms of COVID-19.

  38. Capella says:

    @ Andy Ellis – I agree the ISP needs some big names to make an impression. It would be great if Alex Salmond would join – and Stu and Craig! Annoy all the right people. Indycar Gordon Ross has joined. But I’m as guilty as any for not going to their website yet.

    I’ve heard that members of Wokus Dei are planning to become candidates in the next Holyrood election. If any Branch is stupid enough to select them, then the ISP will have to have a leaflet campaign to hand to educate the voters.

    Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.

  39. Ottomanboi says:

    HYUFD 11:15
    Depends on how you see things, Scotland as a founding element of the UKGBI might also claim successor state status. The assumption that England would be so considered is pure speculation.
    Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.
    The USSR was a totally different political entity from the Scotland-England union.
    There is anyway much discontent around the concept of ‘permanence’ on the so-called security council. Cui bono?

  40. jfngw says:

    @Andy Ellis

    Yes, it’s a dilemma what is the correct route to take, do we try and be cleverer with our use of Twitter and is it possible (I’m not on twitter but I do have a Mastodon account, it’s quiet compared to twitter , I can still read most peoples posts there without joining, only a couple of people I recognise there). There was a mass influx last Dec when people like MrMalky and Jeggit joined but they never post and have remained on Twitter.

    It’s not really feasible to run your own successful Mastodon instance unless you have a decent stash of money. Your ISP I suspect would soon complain if you ran it from your online account and a single person administering this type of service is not reliable. You really need to have it hosted and with a company that will not throw you off when pressurised by the lobbyists.

  41. Joe says:


    Is this brutal truth saturday?;)

    Tories bad. Trump bad. There. Thats me put in the accepted limit of discussion. I wont go a step further for now

  42. @HYUFD,

    from `The United Nations Association – UK is the leading independent policy authority on the United Nations in the UK, and a UK-wide grassroots membership organisation.`

    “If one were to take the view that after Scotland’s independence there would be no continuing state of the UK, and instead two new nations – separate legal entities – had been created, then neither new nation would be entitled to the UK’s permanent Security Council seat, and so the seat would in theory be lost.”

    and we will let you have Trident as a `wee going away prezzie`, stick it up the Thames somewhere,park the subs outside the dump that is Westminster.

  43. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Capella at 12:16 pm.

    You typed,
    “Just how expensive would it be to develop a new platform for sharing news and video? I did join Gab but it’s so right wing I think I’ll cancel.”

    Yeah, I joined Gab as well but the content of their “news” emails had me raising my eyebrow. I’ve done nothing with my account.

  44. MightyS says:

    @AndyEllis Mind last year when Stu was silenced off Twitter, he was going to suss out other platforms…did he ever report back on that?

    Also, I agree. We can sit and whine about how Twitter keeps cancelling us or we can actually move onto another platform, or, create our own. So what if it’s a bubble – the French Resistance weren’t exactly all-inclusive were they? We will at least be able to organise and get stuff done.

  45. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Capella & jfngw

    Agree with both of you it’s a conundrum. I joined Gab too, and whilst there are lots of loonies on there, I’m prepared to hold my nose and see how it goes for the benefit of it being open source and self hosted. To my mind the alt-right nutters on Gab are no worse than the trans extremists on twitter, and the benefit of Gab is you’re not going to get cancelled or suspended for wrong think.

    It takes a fair amount of money, technical expertise and effort to build a new platform from the ground up….same goes for an alternative party. From a social media point of view the good thing about using a federated platform like Gab is that it will be immune from the kind of pile-ons & suspensions we’ve seen on twitter. Potentially also useful for the groups function which twitter doesn’t have.

  46. jfngw says:


    There are companies that will host Mastodon instances for you:

    But a quick look at their terms and conditions and you will see they would eject you just like twitter did with Glinner. Plus all these systems need someone to moderate them or you will soon find your instance filled with thing you don’t want or may not even be legal in the UK.

  47. Sensibledave says:


    You wrote “ Without Scotland the UK effectively ceases to exist.”

    I understand what you are saying, but in actuality, I am 100% sure that the Uk without Scotland would continue to cal itself the UK. It’s just a name. Outside of Scotland, we do not get exercised about the historic politics of current names. It’s been a while since people drove there cattle through the stream here. Somehow though, the name Oxford has stuck.

  48. Capella says:

    What I like about twitter is I can Follow people who have interesting or challenging things to say. I have a wide range of people I follow. I hardly ever post myself but do retweet stuff quite regularly.

    Stu’s twitter account was a great source of news about things I’m interested in. Better than the BBC.

    But twitter started banning and suspending people and “deboosting” people. I think I’m following them but no tweets appear. It’s insidious.

    All the big US corporations are playing this game. Censorship. There ought to be a law protecting freedom of expression. But private companies can please themselves with no obligation to respect diverse opinions. Thus the great open forum of the internet is gradually closed down.
    It’s the duty of the state to protect freedom of expression. The EU might do it. The UK won’t.

  49. Joe says:

    @Andy Ellis

    Parler is a new one like gab. Ive never tried it but maybe you’ll like it better? It got a lot of attention recently

  50. Joe says:


    The EU is at the forefront of clamping down on free speech online

  51. Andy Ellis says:

    @Ottomanboi 12.51pm

    They can call themselves anything they like of course, but UK would seem to be pretty senseless as there would no longer be 2 kingdoms to unite surely? Similarly Great Britain wouldn’t really work, as England and Wales is only part of the island of Great Britain. Perhaps they could called themselves FUK for Former UK? 🙂

    Also, you’re not really correct about it only being the Scots who become exercised about names: ask the Macedonians and Greeks!

  52. Joe says:

    If you want to secure free speech you need to secure a country and a constitution that sets it in stone. Its corporations, and their helpful international organisations, that dont want that. Thats why they want to diminish national sovereignty and erode borders

  53. Dan says:

    Andy Ellis at 12:05 pm

    I would also like to see a bit more action and discussion with regard to the List Party concept.
    With no disrespect intended to Martin Keatings, if he stands as an independent candidate and not as Pro-Indy Party candidate on the Mid Scotland & Fife Regional List, then the 2nd votes he receives are solely for him and not pooled for a Party which may have the potential to get more than one list MSP elected.
    If another candidate stands as an independent or as an ISP candidate in the region, then it’s the same situation and the campaigning message becomes far more difficult to convey across the region with no simple unified message or the ability to pool votes.

    Anybody that has been involved in running a Local Council Election campaign using the Single Transferable Vote system with the ward split into territories with “Vote X 1 and Y 2” or “Vote X 2 and Y 1” will know it is extremely difficult to obtain a balanced vote share in the hope of getting both elected, even with the back up safety net of vote transfers. That is just in one ward, never mind an entire region made up of multiple constituencies.

  54. jfngw says:

    @Andy Ellis

    Maybe they could go for Unitary Kingdom of England, Wales & NI (likely just to be England soon if things continue as at present), after all it’s the pretence they like, the reality is less attractive.

    It’s going to hit them hard when we can still call ourselves British if we want to (it’s a location not a nationality, just like European).

  55. Ian Foulds says:

    is the guy Mundell, without a beard? – if so you give him a chin! ?

  56. Sensibledave says:

    Andy and Ottomanboi

    Will Scotland change its name too? Surely you can’t call a country Scotland, if non Scots live there? That we be offensive to people that are not Scottish by birth? Very divisive and unPC.

  57. Sensibledave says:


    … no … we will stick with UK. Why do you care?

  58. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Dan 12.05pm

    I was hopeful about the prospects for a list only party before, but I’m afraid I’m less optimistic now. It’s getting awful close to Holyrood 2021. The ISP folks appear well intentioned but I’m afraid they lack charismatic leadership and their launch (which I acknowledge was impacted by Covid-19) just seemed like amateur hour.

    Without folk like Joanna Cherry or Alex Salmond on board I fear the impact will be limited, and it may have no real impact if the SNP gain a majority at Holyrood on their own. If that happens we might as well accept #indyref2 isn’t happening any time soon.

    Fair play to Martin Keatings on the S30 court case, but his decisions to stand as an independent looks quixotic at best. The last thing we need is multiple list only parties.

  59. Dan says:

    Hill walkers rejoice, new Monroe located!
    You too can have your head in the clouds once you ascend “Peak Pete”! 🙂

  60. Andy Ellis says:


    Why would Scotland have to change its name because there are people from outside Scotland living here? I’d be more than happy with the Republic of Scotland.

  61. Sensibledave says:


    “Hit them hard”???

    I note your need/want/desire for us non Scots to be negatively affected by an independent Scotland. Why is that?

    As I recall, the parliamentary representatives of the people of England voted by a huge majority to hold a referendum in Scotland to see if the people of Scotland wanted Independence. The majority of the people of Scotland said they didn’t.

    As usual, you blame, and want to punish everyone else because the majority of voters in Scotland, for whatever reason, found your vision less attractive than the status quo.

    Who knows, maybe it’s the snide, thinly veiled bigotry displayed by many against folk that just happen to live in England?

  62. jfngw says:


    That’s why I gave you Unitary Kingdom, then you can keep the UK delusion, but thanks for proving my point.

  63. jfngw says:


    They didn’t vote for status quo, it was Devo Max, the BBC, David Cameron (the Vow) clearly sold it as that, plus continued membership of the EU. The fact that they broke purdah and then didn’t keep the promises made makes the 2014 referendum less than authoritative.

  64. Republicofscotland says:

    “Republic of Scotland Russia kept its UN Security Council seat after the USSR broke up, once you are on it you never leave, the place goes to the largest successor state. The remaining UK would also keep Trident.”


    That’s not strictly true, there is a mechanism in place to remove a member of the Security Council.

    “The only way that a non-permanent member can be removed mid-term, or a permanent member can be removed at all, is if an amendment is made to the UN Charter under Chapter XVIII”

    As for Trident, you’re welcome to it put on the Thames for all I care as long as its out of Scotland, which doesn’t require a seat on the council of vetos.

  65. Ottomanboi says:

    “When you are allowed to…” a phrase sadly often uttered these mentally lockdowned days, one that makes you realise how primed the population has become for further suppressions of individual freedoms at the hands of ‘government’.
    Some amongst us have actually enjoyed the restrictions of corona purdah and may have withdrawal symptoms. O tempora…

  66. jfngw says:


    The ‘hit then hard’ is about the emotional state not the physical, I don’t particularly want a failed state next door to me, too unstable.

  67. Republicofscotland says:

    Info on the jackbooted Nazi racist thugs, that oppose Scottish independence through violence and intimidation, and cultural diversity in Scotland and the rUk.

  68. Socrates MacSporran says:


    Truth is, you’re not that sensible.

    For instance, you wish, post Independence, to have the rump of the current UK, minus the now independent Scotland, still referred to as: The United Kingdom

    How can you have a United Kingdom after one of the two member kingdoms in the union has left?

    Also, the vast representatives of the people of the rest of the UK did not vote in favour of a referendum – strictly speaking, in passing the Section 30 legislation, they agreed to abide by the decision of the Scottish people.

  69. Ottomanboi says:

    Sensibledave 13:16
    Could simply call Scotland by the more ancient Gaelic name or even Caledonia.
    Scots aren’t a ‘race’ as such, so does it matter?
    Land of the free, potentially, by any name.

  70. Sensibledave says:


    … I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?

  71. Republicofscotland says:

    On the cartoon I take it, its to do with the Scottish Tory MPs at Westminster voting down testing for NHS staff in hospitals for the virus. Whilst Carlaw the branch manager in Scotland drones on about testing more up in Scotland, whilst bewailing about it at FMQs.

    The hypocrisy of a Tory knows no bounds, brass necks indeed.

  72. Sensibledave says:


    … I’m not sure you quite “get” the notion of Independence. If an independent UK that doesn’t include Scotland wants to call itself UK or anything else … it would have bugger all to do with you and no one would care what you thought anyway.

    We appreciate your concern and advice though (it’s been filed under “don’t give a s***)!

  73. Republicofscotland says:

    ” I ask again, why would you care? Why would you want to interfere or be involved in the name of a country that was nothing to do with yours?”


    I suppose its just common sense Dave, the United Kingdom was originally a union between Scotland and England was it not? So logically (hmmm we are dealing with Johnson so logic isn’t a prerequisite) once that union is dissolved (hopefully sooner than later) would it not be more prudent to rename it giving a more befitting title, such as the United Countries of Britain, or the United States of Britain.

    UCB or USB would used in short, and a colour from the Welsh flag would replace the blue from Scotland’s Saltire in the Butchers Aporn.

  74. jfngw says:

    I noticed this tweet from James Kelly

    “Not true at all – the overall composition of parliament is roughly proportional to how people vote on the list. The list ballot is therefore the more important ballot.”

    This is nonsense, if the SNP win 65 constituency seats they still have 65 parliamentary seats no matter if they only gain 1% in the list vote.

    I no problem with him describing a second independence party as having a risk element attached if the SNP fail to win enough constituency seats, but this is just a misrepresentation to deceive.

  75. jfngw says:


    Hmm! Someone on an independence site telling us to mind our own business. Et tu, Brute.

  76. Sensibledave says:


    … I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.

  77. Republicofscotland says:

    Now that Sensibledave has triggered our curiosity as to what the UK might call itself after we’ve ditched this horrendous union once and for all, one wonders what England would have other nations refer us to it, as the Welsh and NI surely wouldn’t have much of a say in what to call it.

    They could just call it Britain, England & Colonies, or maybe even Britannia we’ll just have to wait and see, though hopefully it will not be too long a wait.

  78. Republicofscotland says:

    “I hope you won’t mind if I completely disregard the opinion of someone that wants to disrespect me, my country and my flag.”


    Supposition on the new name of a new union isn’t disrespectful as for the Butchers Apron, lets not forget a colour from the Saltire is in it, and as long as that blood soaked flag flies in Scotland, and Scots live under its yoke I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.

  79. Sensibledave says:

    This is fun!

    Independence turned on its head!

    Why, if Scotland is independent, do you think me or anyone else would care what people from another country think we should be called or what flags we use?

    It is another variation of a warped Stockholm Syndrome. If Scotland becomes independent because that is what the majority of folk want, then, as was demonstrated by the Westminster Parliament arranging referendum on the subject, non Scots are cool with that.

    But many seem unhappy with that. They appear to want us to scream and shout and gnash our teeth! Do you remember the mass marches in al the cities across England as folk fought to keep Scotland in the UK against its will?? Errr … no … there weren’t any.

    If Scotland becomes independent country then you will have the blessing of the vast majority of the people of England and we will wish you well. I can’t help feeling though, those emotions are not reciprocated by many here. Why is that?

  80. Andy Ellis says:


    I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!

  81. Dan says:

    @Andy Ellis at 1:18 pm

    Are “big player” names really required though? Yes they undoubtedly would bring something to the Party, (possibly baggage and egos…), but there are also many other lesser nationally known but highly competent “local folk” in the regions that may actually do a better job of representing their areas.
    To fly the concept just requires dare I say strengthening through a semblance of unity.

    I’m having chats with activists that still don’t have a handle on the voting system, nevermind the wider electorate’s capacity to comprehend it.
    Keeping it straightforward using KISS acronym principles is what is required with the limited time we have available.
    If covid situation creates another lockdown then that is going to restrict and influence any campaign, therefore a simple 2nd Vote for The Pro-Indy Regional List Party is the only realistic way to progress.

  82. callmedave says:

    Today’s figs: on BBC websites patchy only in Wales is a corona virus blog mentioned. Big Auntie doesn’t seem bothered now.
    The SUN has all the numbers so here they are.

    Scotland…….today…..*00……..Total…*2482…*SUN + BBC
    N. Ireland……..*01……..Total….*549…*SUN
    UK………….today…no data……Total..*43500…*SUN

    Probably change later when WM Gov officially announce a number.

  83. Andy Ellis says:

    @Dan 2.35pm

    I’m not saying they are the be all and end all, but it would serve to up the profile of any new indy party? I accept that it could be a double edged sword, but my view of the current situation and plans for Holyrood 2021 elections has long been that we don’t actually NEED a mass party, or to convert undecideds (which can be a long process).

    A list only party (following on from analysis done by Gavin Barrie (@jammach) just needs to convince “enough” to win a decent number of seats. We’ve seen in the past that minor parties have often won list seats on 6 or 7% of the vote (Greens, SSP, Margot as an independent, the Pensioner Party).

    Trouble is now, if the SNP doesn’t depend on a “sensible” list only party for its majority, it will simply sit on its hands for another decade as no-marks like Pete Wishart and his clueless supporters so amply demonstrate. It won’t help to have a dozen ISP or Wings MSPs if the SNP and Greens have a majority anyway: we’ll still be locked in to the “Gold Standard” approved S30 referendum process, self-ID and new hate speech laws.

    I reckon having a personality like Salmond or Cherry declaring for a new list party must give SNP hierarchy sleepless nights. Collette Walker and Martin Keatings….not so much.

  84. mike cassidy says:


    For those who want to be Katie Hopkins’ penpal

    Yet the vileness of so much of its content necessarily precludes debate because no-one seeking reasoned debate could possibly want to debate there. Who wants to have a thoughtful, sit-down discussion in a sewer?


    Is independence too much bother for careerist SNP politicians?

  85. Gary45% says:

    “Tar boiler with a wax job” is that not the name of the entertainer at the Bullingdon Club?

  86. Andy Ellis says:

    @Mike Cassidy 2.50pm

    What’s your alternative solution though? If folk who support the likes of WoS, Glinner, JKR on the issue of women’s rights are routinely de-platformed and banned, either we accept that curtailment of free speech, come up with an alternative independent forum, or use ones which already exist.

    In my experience (which appears to be echoed by others) Mastodon is little different from twitter, in that those paying for and acting as admins of “instances” will suspend anyone on the same basis as twitter on the basis that they don’t want their instance ostracised by other instance admins in their universe.

    Perhaps in the end we have to take a more Voltairean view…?

  87. Republicofscotland says:

    “I reckon Brexitania has a ring to it: after all it seems to reflect what most Britnats have been obsessed with for decades!”

    Yes Andy very apt indeed, what’s interesting though is a million and one questions have been posed in here by so called unionists on what Scotland would do on this and that before and after independence on everything from currency to defence.

    Yet the same so called unionists get their knickers in an almighty twist when the tables turn when we ask only one or two questions on which flag, and what will the UK call itself after Scotland escapes from the horrid union.

    Unsurprisingly we are met with, keep your nose out of it, its none of your business, Oh if only the so called unionists followed their own advice.

  88. susan says:

    Personally I will vote for any pro independence, anti GRA party that stands in my area. Anyone know Fergus Ewing’s stance on GRA? x

  89. Capella says:

    What Twitter illustrates is that a public network is a natural monopoly. Like railways, roads and telecoms, you can only realistically have one provider. For that reason it should be a state provider or at least so regulated that it might as well be.

  90. Sensibledave says:

    Republicofscotlnd 2.26

    You wrote ” I’ll call it the Butchers Apron if I want to.”

    Indeed you will and you have.

    … and I will think that you are a very disrepectful t**t if I want to. … Free country and all that.

    You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.

    As a mature grown up though, I understand the workings of an under developed brain. I have children. They also think the world revolves aound them and their views and that anyone that disagrees them are unworthy.

    In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of …whilst I didn’t) and everyone smiles at the cleverness of it all.

    Here’s the news. Other than your little gang … the rest of us think you are just jerks. Narcisstic, brainless jerks.

    Wanting Idependence, I would have thought, would be all about the positives … where the country could go, what it could become, what it should stand for, its morals, its ethics, etc

    What I see though is obsession with the faults of the “others”, their history, their heroes, their darker times, failures, etc. You feel they need to negatively characterise them because of their country of birth. You want to insult their systems, institutions and symbols.

    … and you struggle to understand why the people of Scotland are not all lined up behind you?

  91. Capella says:

    Joanna Cherry is hoping to represent Edinburgh Central? for the SNP. She is unlikely to stand for another party unless there’s some drastic upheaval. Alex Salmond, on the other hand, is not currently a member of the SNP.

  92. Robertknight says:

    The existing United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland should, under the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927, have reverted to the “Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”. The term “United Kingdom,” as opposed to “united Kingdom,” followed the Act of Union between the Kingdom of Great Britain and Kingdom of Ireland, therefore the term “United” should have been dropped under the 1927 Act. Furthermore, the Saltire of St Patrick should have been removed from the Union Flag and the Harp of Ireland removed from the Royal Coat of Arms.

    None of that happened on the grounds of cost – some penny pinchers in Whitehall decided that to change the flags and coats of arms in addition to stationary etc. etc. etc. would be astronomical, therefore despite only Kingdoms having been represented on flags and coats of arms until this time, (Wales never featuring – being only a Principality, and one which through conquest found itself absorbed within a Kingdom), it was decided simply to modify the name, (Ireland modified to Northern Ireland), and the Saltire of St Patrick and Harp of Ireland would be retained to represent N.Ireland – despite it being a (British) Province on the island of Ireland and NOT a Kingdom as in the case of England, Scotland and the former Kingdom of Ireland.

    The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. (The royal arms, both versions used in Scotland and elsewhere, have been quartered since 1603 to reflect the Union of Scottish and English crowns and would be unaffected by the reappearance of an independent Kingdom of Scotland).

    But again, cost will likely result in no changes being made to titles, flags etc. so the rUK title and flag will likely remain unaltered following the reappearance of the Kingdom of Scotland. (The Scottish version of the Union Flag could technically be flown from a jack staff of any SDF Naval vessel if the monarch of the day requested such – the flag, in both Scottish and English forms, as with the royal coat of arms, predates the 1707 Act of Union by over a century).

    So money, as opposed to the conventions of heraldry, styles and titles, will ultimately decide – as has already been shown when the majority of the former Kingdom of Ireland seceded from, (you could argue ‘dissolved‘), the UK, what changes should have taken place did not purely on the grounds of cost.

  93. Iain More says:

    I have a spare tin since I don’t have any brass in the house.

  94. willie says:

    Capella @12.06

    Your comments about both the Scottish Government and the Glasgow City Council having raised their concerns about the treatment, indeed the basic humanity being shown to immigrants shows us what type of country we have become.

    A country where human beings can be denied decency, denied medical support so often needed by fragile people who have had their lives turned upside down.

    Lock down in a fucking hotel room, denied the princely sum of £5.30 a day, the private company exacting the hostile environment on behalf of the Home Office did their dirty work in plain view.

    To the gas chambers they could be marched and save for a few well intentioned politicos who raised the issue, this disgrace was done in our name.

    Done as we stood by, I fear that we are no different from the scum who implemented this policy, this hostile environment. If death camps make money, then caring Jock is happy to oblige. Right in the centre of Glasgow, but not just in Glasgow.

    And has there been a cheep from Nicola Sturgeon. No, has there fuck. Posing as the Gaultier I expect little from her and her ilk who have infested the party.

    Sorry for being so negative. I don’t wish to be. But as the details emerge of how these people were treated, and the horror of this event where people were left having had an eye ripped out or their guts ripped open crying for their mothers, I don’t think I can stomach wee Nicola’s silence.

  95. Sensibledave says:

    Robert Knight

    You wrote “The correct title for any rUK post Scottish independence would be “The Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland”. The correct flag, relating to Kingdoms, would simply be that of England, but the coat of arms, (despite displaying the Harp symbol of a Kingdom which hasn’t existed for nearly a century), being Royal, would remain unchanged provided that Scotland did not at some point become a republic. ”

    Well thanks for that Robert. You will forgive me for saying, that in actuality, it will be absolutely nothing to do with you!

    There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it. As a Sovereign nation we will do what we please, and, with the greatest respect, really not an issue that you should be troubling yoursef over – let alone seeking to interfere in.

  96. @Iain More,

    brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.

  97. Gary45% says:

    Call yourselves “Ironyland” although that would be lost on
    your populace.

  98. Joe says:

    Dawned on me today. Bank of England rainbow flag, rainbow flags from corporations, covid19 rainbow flag, rainbow flag on certain political groups.

    No its not about being nice to LGBT.

    We are experiencing a colour revolution.

  99. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tories don’t really need brass necks to enable them to project their ideological opposition to the justice of the Natural Law tradition, as some sort of moral virtue.

    In individual’s political outlook is a product of their biosocial nature. Tories tend to be genetically predisposed to oppose the principle of equality in law, and to support the belief that social inequality is natural. So Tories are simply bio-neurologically predisposed to support social injustice. Subsequently, the Tory mindset is drawn to support BritNat.

    Full text.

    Realist studies of oppression, emancipation and resistance

  100. Joe says:

    Colour revolution:

    ‘Participants in the colour revolutions have mostly used nonviolent resistance, also called civil resistance[citation needed]. Such methods as demonstrations, strikes and interventions have been intended protest against governments seen as corrupt and/or authoritarian and to advocate democracy and they have also created strong pressure for change.’

    ‘The colour revolutions are notable for the important role of non-governmental organisations (NGOs)’

    ‘In most but not all cases, massive street protests followed disputed elections or requests for fair elections and led to the resignation or overthrow of leaders considered by their opponents to be authoritarian’

    ‘Government figures in Russia, such as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, have claimed that colour revolutions are externally fuelled acts with a clear goal to influence the internal affairs that destabilise the economy,[2] conflict with the law and represent a new form of warfare.’

    These NGO’s, corporations and international financiers – do they want this to make your life better? Or is it for greater control? Are the SNP giving us a glimpse of what the future might be like in the West if this succeeds?

  101. jfngw says:


    I quite fancy Scotland retaining the name UK, it’s up to us what we call ourselves, what’s going to happen when both countries want the same name. I suspect those from England think they own it, but they don’t.

  102. Joe says:



  103. Sensibledave says:


    … and there you go again Gary!

    Another pop at the “populace” of another country.

    Perhaps, instead of a negatively characterising millions of ordinary folk who have never done anything to you and instead of negatively portraying the country, its politics, its institutions, its symbols, etc, …. you might try and pursuade people in your own country of how atractive your vision for the future you see for Scotland?

    Its not working Gary, and whilst it really isnt anything to do with me, I understand why you are struggling to get the support you require.

    I observe, in actuality, your mission is getting harder.

    Now, not only do you not offer any positive vision for an Independent Scotland, not only do you constantly insult and abuse folk that happen to live in another country who, in the main, are neutral on the subject of Scottish Independence – you now insult and abuse other pro indy supporters in Scotland that may hold different political views to you on non Independence matters.

    Its not looking good Gary. You really need a better plan, your current approach has failed spectacularly .. but you carry on!

    You know what they say about keeping on doing the same thing and expecting different results?

  104. Dan says:

    @Andy Ellis at 2,48pm

    Yep, what you say was touched on a few weeks back in previous discussion on the matter.
    IIRC there was a suggestion of targeting a few constituency seats as that might focus some minds and tighten some sphincters if a threat to the presumed inevitability of an SNP majority arose.
    We’ve seen with Neil Hanvey in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath in last GE that being suspending by the SNP a week before the election did not stop the activists or the electorate voting for him. Maybe that’s a small sign the electorate are receptive to alternatives.

    Seeing as you mention Gavin Barrie’s work on the electoral numbers.

  105. jfngw says:

    I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.

  106. CameronB Brodie says:

    The BritNats and the extreme right appear to be blending into a single, definable, threat to Scotland’s democracy. It was bound to happen, as Brexitania is not a social democracy.

    Nurs Philos. 2006 Jan;7(1):45-57.
    Critical Realism as Emancipatory Action: The Case for Realistic Evaluation in Practice Development

    To provide rigour when preparing a research design, the researcher needs to carefully consider not only the methodology but also the philosophical intent of the study. This, however, is often absent from reported research and provides the reader with little evidence by which to judge the merits of the chosen methodology and its influence on the study.

    The purpose of this paper is to set out the case for critical realism as a framework to guide appropriate action in practice development and realistic evaluation for understanding the consequences of those actions. It is evident that critical realism and critical social science share common ground. Emancipatory practice development (ePD) is based on the philosophy of critical social science and therefore by virtue is linked to the tenets of critical realism.

    Until now, the evaluation of ePD programme has been well served by 4th-generation evaluation. However, this paper outlines the need for a different approach to evaluation, one that is based on critical realism, that is concerned with emancipation, and that can be used in the ever-changing environment of clinical practice. Realistic evaluation not only links strongly to ePD programmes, but also serves as the basis for effective research questions that will test the outcomes of the research and inform the transferability of ePD mechanisms into differing contexts.

  107. Andy Ellis says:

    @Sensibledave 3.36pm

    I don’t think there’s much mileage in the theory that post brexit Engerlund is a shining exemplar of the rule of law or of anything else most of us would want to emulate. Rather the British nationalist project, like Trumps America and Putin’s Russia is rapidly descending into the kind of dystopia Timothy Snyder described in his book “The Road to Unfreedom”.

    The Better Together camp and brexiteers of course learned much from Putin. Like Trump’s MAGA project they share the same regressive weltanschauung and desire to protect the current status quo at all costs. British nationalists, like their American and Russian counterparts are just too dim to see that the oligarchs have them exactly where they want them.

    I fear it’s too late for rump UK: it is en route to being a hellish offshore low rent European Singapore. Fortunately Scotland has an “out”: the biggest question is whether Scots have the political balls to vote for it.

  108. Republicofscotland says:

    “You are indeed free to lob insults and disrespect others because it suits your political agenda. You are fortunate to live in the United Kingdom where are laws and culture are developed based upon freedom, democracy and the rule of law.”

    And you Sir (Sensibledave) are an ass if you believe, Scots and Scotland havent been disrespected for centuries by Westminster.

    This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence, Alex Salmond, and Scots folk in general, only six years ago.

  109. CameronB Brodie says:

    For those unable to see why nursing practice relates to the debate, it doesn’t, much, though it does provide an excellent referee to support a critical realist approach to social emancipation.

  110. callmedave says:

    There have been a few deaths added since 14:00hrs
    Official count now.

    N. Ireland………01……..Total…..549

    Note: No separate figs for England on any BBC web site but the SUN publishes them.

  111. Republicofscotland says:

    Ireland’s new Taoiseach Micheal Martin speaks favourably of an independent Scotland, no doubt this will upset our colonial masters South of the border.

  112. Republicofscotland says:

    “I see Mr Wishart is still trying to get into the Guinness book of records as the highest twitter blocker. His reasoning, I’m starting to feel, is he was a musician with Runrig & Big Country but currently this is the best gig he has ever secured, and it has a pension.”


    Theres an excellent long letter in the National newspaper today by a Mr Bruce, who rightly points out that the very unlikely event that Johnson agrees to a S30 order, that it will carry a plethora of very stringent caveats, that no SNP government could ever accept, and as the longest serving SNP MP in the House of Commons Pete Wishart must surely know that.

    One has to wonder why Wishart won’t even consider a Plan B.

  113. Joe says:

    @Andy Ellis

    I’ll take my chances with the Trump or Brexit crowd any day over the kind of politics coming out of Holyrood or the kind of cognative dissonance shown by people who continue to support the SNP while slavering incoherently about the choices other people have made.

  114. Capella says:

    Scot Finlayson 3:52
    brasso is also good for taking scratches/scuffs out in car paint,as long as not to deep,also if car has oxidised or dulled paint will cut through to clearer/brighter layer.

    Appropriate for a used car salesman then? 🙂

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    As if supporting the far-right would help Scotland in any way. Right-wing populists support authoritarian racism (see Brexit).

    Full text.

    Combatting Right?Wing Populism

  116. Capella says:

    @ willie 3.47 – immigration is a reserved matter, refugees are a reserved matter, social security is a reserved matter. The only way Nicola Sturgeon and Glasgow City Council can deal effectively with these issues is if people vote for Scotland to be an independent country.

  117. bittie45 says:

    Question Time R4 Today 1:10 on Sat 27th May, 2020.

    Discussing INDEPENDENCE DAY in England on 4th July. Now that’s funny!

    Amazed by Andy Burnham’s comments about 5 minutes in – he wished that England could have Scotland’s clarity of message with regard to COVID19!!!

    Sadly we won’t hear his comments reported by BBC Shortbread though.

  118. robbo says:

    No wan talking to that Joe lol


  119. Ottomanboi says:

    I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
    Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
    Get a life! I say to such posters.

  120. jfngw says:


    I was going to but then my cognitive dissonance (correct spelling) kicked in.

  121. Joe says:

    No worries Robbo.

    Your Dear Leader will make sure you can get that form filled and signed so you can get your kit off and into a shower with a nice wee lassie and be protected from ‘hate speech’ while doing so.

    Thank god we aren’t living under any of those bigots who aren’t letting that kind of thing happen. Eh?

  122. Joe says:


    Thanks. I knew you had to be good for something. If you ever want to point out anything else you know you can feel free. Right?

    Until then im happy to have you as a kind of proof reader.


  123. CameronB Brodie says:

    I suggest you get some perspective. 😉

    Science in Lockdown: the effects of COVID-19 on research and researchers

  124. Joe says:

    So who else here is voting for the Dear Leader because they want to use the GRA and hate speech laws to get in close and personal with the ladies or wee lassies?

    Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution than the Scottish Government currently is and much fairer than any of you give them credit for.

    Come on. This is the brave new Scotland where anything goes. You can be honest about it without judgment. Come out of the closet. Its 2020. Your voting for the personal access to females aren’t you?

  125. Andy Ellis says:

    @Joe 5.06pm

    That’s fair enough, but very much a minority view in Scotland, although admittedly much of the lumpen proletariat in Engerlund has fallen for the politics of the oligarchs and chosen the wrong side in every one of the major choices of equality or oligarchy, individuality or totality, truth and falsehood.

    The authoritarianism of Putin and his creature Trump will of course be entirely palatable to those behind Boris.

  126. Republicofscotland says:

    “Ottomanboi says:
    27 June, 2020 at 5:24 pm
    I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, not one has has had even a mild cough during this Covid pandemic.
    Forgive me if I grow tired of those posting the latest ‘official’ death’ stats. Everybody seems to dying of Covid these days, how convenient for admin.
    Get a life! I say to such posters”

    Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.

  127. Andy Ellis says:


    I too have a wide circle of friends. Thankfully nobody close to me has had any serious Covid-19 symptoms. I do know of many who have had symptoms, or had mild cases. One of my daughter’s close friends aged 25 died of Covid due to a compromised immune system resulting from cancer treatment.

    Your subjective lack of experience, and apparently lack of empathy, is not a good yardstick by which to measure our responses to this pandemic.

  128. Dan says:

    @Joe at 5:32 & 5.45 pm

    Read the fuckin’ room, you’re commenting on a site where most are trying to address the issues you highlight.

    While you’re on the line caller, do you have any, ANY issues with UK Parliament in Westminster coz previously you said the leadership was shit?

  129. Republicofscotland says:

    “Clearly you can’t be supporting the SNP ‘to get a referendum’. Because if WM were to offer a fair 50/50 referendum they’d be showing themselves to be a fairer and more democratic institution”


    If is a very big word, there’s not a snowballs chance in hell of Westminster offering a referendum on Scottish independence.

    Just as there’s no chance of the Chagossian people ever getting back home due to Westminster breaching International law.

  130. Sensibledave says:


    You wrote “This is what ordinary English folk thought about Scottish independence”

    No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.

    There are people in both England and Scotland that are unsavoury types. They may be despicable because of their views on race, religion, whatever … but to suggest that somehow they represent a nation is the skullduggery of the pathetic and inept.

    If you like, I could copy and paste a few of the more loony comments from previous threads here and present them as being an example of a average Scot? Would that be Ok? Would it be correct?

    Even you are not that dumb.

    Why not just accept that ordinary folk in England are just the same as ordinary folk elsewhere and leave it at that.

    Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.

    In developed, civilised western society, the type of politics you peddle (based upon hatred and difference) will make not get traction. Yes there will be extremists that that will gather round some ridiculous ideology .. but it will always be fringe.

    Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.

  131. Joe says:


    Can’t someone hold the position that WM and Holyrood are currently total shit? Being a Scottish Nationalist (hanging in there) Holyrood is the one im watching the most. Ive already given up on WM. Further I didn’t expect to need to point out WM bullshit on the premier Scottish Independence blog. WOS does a fantastic job of it.

    @Andy Ellis
    Yes, definitely a minority view. Wait until certain legislation gets in and the penny drops with the electorate. The sentiments I expressed will start to increase in the population exponentially. SNP supporters at that point will be like the National Socialists who voted for the economic policies while turning a blind eye to all the icky other stuff.

  132. Joe says:


    ‘Another idiot who needs to spend time in a room with families that have lost loved ones. I’m sure they’d soon straighten a fool such as you out.’

    Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?

    When you writing a novel?

  133. Joe says:


    Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.

    That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.

  134. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Anyway, I will leave you to your divisive politics and pop back every now and again to hold up a mirror and show you in your true light.”

    As if dave isn’t culturally-constrained in his cognitive and ethical capabilities. 🙂

    Requirements of Democracy
    Chapter 34
    The Psychological Underpinnings
    of Political Behavior

  135. Willie says:

    Capella @ 5.18pm

    I couldn’t agree more with your comments. Immigration is indeed a reserved matter and this tragedy further reinforces why we need independence.

    But I have anger at Nicola Sturgeon. As First Minister she should condemn and condemn absolutely the inhuman treatment that Westminster imposes on refugees through its hostile environment and its private contractors who like camp guards implement the most inhuman of policies to people, many of whom will have fled the most harrowing of circumstances.

    Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland. By not commenting, by not decrying what has been happening here in a Scotland, she consigns herself to nothing less than Westminster’s Gaultier General.

    The Park Hotel was a lockdown camp. A camp every much a camp as those in 1930s Poland and elsewhere. Friday was a butcher shop. Something that will forever remain scarred into all those
    who experienced the tragedy.

    Yes Capella, it is a Westminster reserved power, but unlike the Vichy French, i do not want to look away, and neither should Nicola Sturgeon.

  136. ALANM says:

    “Nicola Sturgeon gives indicative dates for pubs and hairdressers to re-open” – Evening Times 24/06/20

    Just one question – when are we going to get an indicative date for the next independence referendum?

  137. bipod says:

    Yes it would be nice if people on here did try to acquire some perspective. The empirical data shows us that people of working age are no more likely to die from this than the flu and even less for children but that doesn’t stop the covid busybody, doom-mongers on here from comparing this to the bubonic plague.

    Professor Neil Ferguson told us that without a lockdown 500,000 people would die here by now (still often repeated by dithering nicola and boris johnson). But 500,000 people world wide haven’t died yet, the statistics are not dissimilar from the by yearly flu outbreak. According to the doom-mongers many millions of people should be dead by now in countries that didn’t lockdown or couldn’t lockdown.

    The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.

  138. Gary45% says:

    Wow, did you think that up on your own?
    A positive vision for an Independent Scotland, probably 95% the opposite of the current situation under Westminster rule.
    Apologies for the late reply, just been out having a wee 5pm cocktail, beer, wine gathering with the neighbours.
    Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.
    My vision for an Indy Scotland has been posted over the years.
    Try again Son.

  139. jfngw says:

    I see the covid stats are going the same way as GERS, they hide the England total in the UK total, just like they hide spending in England in the UK total and tell Scotland how bad it is performing.

  140. Graeme says:

    “In this echo chamber, I know its “cool” and “part of the in crowd” to lob out stuff like “butcher’s apron” when indicating the flag of the Union (you know, the Union that Scots voted whether to be part of”

    When are you gonna get it through your thick fucking skull that Scots did not not vote to remain in the UK, Scots voted for independence it was your people that swung the vote against us and the reason we refer to your blessed union flag as the butchers apron is that it’s a symbol of murder,rape & genocide on a scale that makes Nazi Germany look like a teddy bears picnic, just ask the native Tazmanians oh sorry you can’t do that can you Dave there’s none left yes there were Scots involved the Alistair Jacks of the day but they’re your people Dave not ours now fuck off

  141. Baxter1967 says:

    Joe says:
    27 June, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    Scottish nationalism is defined more by anti-Britishness (English) rather than a sense of Scottishness.

    That’s because it has turned from a nationalist movement to a tool of cultural marxists.

    I say
    I second that, third it , fourth it….Too many from the far left angry brigade corrupting the SNP. As per if we only paid Asylum seekers more money and gave them better conditions that maniac wouldn’t have stabbed and killed and it’s all England’s fault.. bla bla bla. Irresponsible soft and naive rubbish. Unfortunately the SNP becoming a vehicle for the Corbyn fellow travelers.

  142. Dan says:

    @Joe at 6:02 pm

    You may hold that position but it could be conceived by some as being a little extreme as our society still functions to most intents and purposes.
    Having spent time in Romania just after Ceausescu “left the building” (which was bloody huge by the way) I’ve seen first hand what a really shit State looks like when failed by their Government.
    Orphanages filled with abandoned boys, many so damaged they sat unresponsive rocking in their own piss, meal times were a joy as we ate a watery “stew” made with a boiled bone and fat with some donated damaged vegetables thrown in.
    I don’t think we are quite there yet…

    Don’t get me wrong, there is certainly a degree of political shit wafting aboot, but that is what we are trying to address.
    You’ve stated you are a democrat, or at least expressed concerns that it is being undermined. Therefore I would hope that rather than ranting (which we all like to do at times) about single issues which most on here are aware exist only through the dark actions of the big corporates to be used as a divide and rule tool, you sit down round the table and agree a plan to fix the issues you and many others see.

    “The great thing in this world is not so much where you stand, as in what direction you are moving.”

  143. Sensibledave says:


    You wrote “Many nationalities there, no police or other services needed called out. That’s what happens when you are inclusive of all nationalities.”

    … what is your point Gary? Is it pehaps that the vast majority of folk engage in inclusive social interactivity without a second thought about the sort of divisive s**t that you engage in here on Wings? If it is, I agree.

    BTW, if you can think of country and and capital city that has greater degree of immigration, diversity, inclusiveness and lack of trouble … as mine. Then let me know.

    It certainly isn’t Scotland!

    Together with the likes of RoS, you choose to highlight the negative occurances of the few – and present them as representitive of the many.

    Why do you do that?

    Last time I was in Glasgow late at night, about a year ago, it was a very scary place. There were drunks, fights and sectarian s**t kicking off too. There was open aggressive reaction to my accent in one bar. Is it fair, or correct in any way, for me to then project experience as encompassing the characteristics of the average Scot?

    You are a disgrace Sir.

  144. Baxter1967 says:

    Poland in the 1930s ? Are you serious? This is the most nutty outburst I’ve heard for a long time.

    You make the far left look moderate.

    As the Tories say : keep them on the same page and watch the votes come our way.

  145. CameronB Brodie says:

    “The precautionary principle tells us that the actual risk posed by the virus do not justify the devasting costs of lockdown.”

    As no evidence is supplied to support this opinion, I’m happy to consider this perspective to be unsubstantiated denial that a respect for public health ethics is even more necessary during a pandemic.

    Ethical and Legal Considerations in Mitigating Pandemic Disease: Workshop Summary.
    4 Ethical Issues in Pandemic Planning and Response

  146. CameronB Brodie says:

    Apparently, dave considers a patriotic desire to defend one’s civic society from the right-wing populism of another nation, to be divisive. That’s because dave is here to punt British nationalism, which is now virtually indistinguishable from right-wing, populist, racism.

  147. schrodingers cat says:

    31st june, what does it actually mean? what happens or is meant to happen?

  148. jfngw says:


    That must have been one heck of a night, sectarianism, bigotry and unbridled violence. Hope you were OK once you woke up.

  149. @Capella,

    Used car salesmen/women are the same as Tory politicians,

    they will be your best friend,promise you everything just to get that sale/vote,

    after the sale/election you never see them, you will never get a call back if you need anything,

    until 4/5 years later when you need a new car or another election then they are again your best friend and will promise you everything and anything,

    strangely enough thousands of citizens fall for their bullsh@t every time.

  150. Joe says:


    My wife is from a similar country. She got milk twice a week and her doll was a charitable gift from America. Communism is great isnt it?

    However i don’t see how that relates? I know we live in a great country relative to others – that’s why I left the EU.

    You do realise that under the SNP women will lose their rights to private spaces free from biological males WHILE under the pressure of potentially being jailed by hate speech laws if they cause offense?

    You might not care that much. You might not see it as an issue.

    But here are 3 things that dont care about your opinion:

    1 – most of the electorate are going to lash back against this if it gets implemented and it will be ugly because most dont even realise whats going on yet

    2 – you wont get your referendum

    3 – those policies are only the beginning.

    Now, forgive me for my lack of patience, while I repeat what ive been saying for a few years now:

    The only plan of action for a voter under these circumstances is TO REFUSE TO VOTE FOR A PARTY THAT WISHES TO IMPLEMENT THESE FUCKING policies.

    But here is the thing that makes me detest many on this board – while people are casting a blind eye to this and going forward and ‘lending the SNP their vote’ they have the temerity, the arrogance, the sheer lack of self reflection, to look down on others for voting for things like Brexit or for Trump.

    Its jaw dropping.

  151. jfngw says:

    @schrodingers cat

    31st june, what does it actually mean?

    You’ve invented a new calendar?

  152. Sensibledave says:


    … so, after the comments I have been involved in, and the nature of the outpourings of ridiculousness from Gary and RoS, your input is to doubt my word. Is it ’cause I is English?

    So that’s you, Gary, RoS are joint winners of today’s bigot of the day award. You have even outdone the usual winner old “pseudo” himself.

  153. jfngw says:



  154. Pete says:

    Regarding the incident in Glasgow yesterday, most ordinary folks I know didn’t realise just how many refugees and asylum seekers we have.
    The general reaction is – what the!
    For someone who has supposedly been persecuted to within their life to be complaining about food, wifi and hotel accommodation beggars belief.
    Sorry, the sooner we shut the door, the better.

  155. Robert graham says:

    I had the stupidity to look at Nicola Sturgeons Twater feed by Christ they are a lot of fkn nutters out there , all the blame for the events in Glasgow are her fault , yep just her all on her own she caused the whole bloody mess , I give up I honestly thought we had a small minority of nutters but Christ on a bike they are all over the place spewing venom and bile .

    Ok listen up fkrs ,

    Nicola Sturgeon does not control immigration , got that ? its fkn simple Pretty face in the English home office controls movement of people in and out of this island , Not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon

    The first thing Nicola needs to do in the next daily news update is make sure these arse wipes understand we don’t control Who enters or leaves the country the English Home Office does

    Unfortunately Nicola set herself up for a fall on this one , she has no say in who arrives here ,when they do she has no say in how they are treated by the English government , but as usual the English governments mistakes all of a sudden become the SNPs fault when it goes tits up ,

    Nicola you need to let these dummies know where the blame lies and it’s at Westmonsters front fkn door

  156. Pete says:

    Rober Graham
    I think you’ll find that the SG volunteered to take in a disproportionate number of these people.
    Quite a few areas within the UK refused, quite correctly in my opinion.

  157. Baxter1967 says:

    Now that Stamner is cracking down I can see the Corbynistas seeing their natural home up north in the SNP. They’d be most welcome in such congenial company.
    Hardly need to worry as Independence is being substituted for wokery and they can use their well honed skills to make the SNP just as unelectable as the party they nearly destroyed.

  158. Robert graham says:

    Oh fk
    Listen up Pete

    We don’t control immigration , got it WE DONT CONTROL Immigration , has it sunk in yet ?


    Are you fkn listening ?

    Say it after me we don’t control immigration it’s really easy to get the hang of it , well easy for most

  159. Republicofscotland says:

    “Is this like the melodramatic scene you painted about all the deaths and misery in the hospital wards…that you had never actually seen but ‘had heard from others about’?

    When you writing a novel?”


    60,00 plus dead from the virus and you’re making light of it

    Wow!, just wow! What a dick.

  160. Joe says:


    And the ugly truth is that many come from parts of the world where males are indoctrinated into believing women are 2nd class people and no better than possessions and see our free society as against their morality.

    But shhhh…dont tell the folk on here. It will upset them and they will call you a bigot until its far too late. Just like with everything else. Their fantasies are more important than other peoples lived realities.

  161. Baxter1967 says:

    No Robert Graham she cannot virtue signal enough about welcoming asylum seekers and opening our borders .She’d rather march to that tune than any Independence one

  162. Joe says:


    No. Im making fun of you. But its true, I am indeed a dick.

  163. Joe says:

    Just a thought for people to consider:

    See this BLM rioting and the demands for white folk to apologise, and the ‘erasing white people from history’ stuff?

    What happens if you fill a country like ours up with poor immigrants, whose own country the elite and their rich mates have destroyed, keep them on benefit and tell them ordinary white British folk (or even European) are the reason for their woes, just like BLM are doing?

    You’d have a rabid dog to unleash at will with only the maintenance of a police state to keep the peace.

  164. Dan says:


    I’m not getting into a laborious repetitive cycle of what we’ve already said.
    You’ve been hanging out on here long enough to have read the very real concerns most on here have expressed with regard to Self ID.
    We are well aware of its divisive nature and the progression of the Hate Speech Bill as an attempt to silence opposition to it.
    We are also well aware of the wider implications focusing on those particular policies at this particular time brings.
    I asked that you read the room.
    Don’t be like Sue.

    In case you hadn’t noticed, growing inequality, collapsing industries, strain on our health and social services don’t just happen under communism.

  165. Republicofscotland says:

    “No it isn’t .. and you know it. You playing the worst type of identity politics. You are finding people that are completely unreprentitive of the population and projecting their characteristics on everyone. It really is pathetic.”


    Apparently the comments say differently, you’d be surprised what commentors will say behind their keyboards of anonymity.

    Take Joe’s 6.05pm comment for instance, which is on the verge of mocking the dead.

    “Then sir, perhaps present a positive vision for your country folk that they can get behind – rather than trying to convince them (and failing miserably) that there is something uniquely horrible about English folk.”

    I didn’t say for one minute that English folk are uniquely horrible did I? But lets no pretend that ordinary folk don’t post distasteful comments from time to time they do.

  166. ALANM says:

    @Robert Graham 7:20 pm

    All the nutters I’ve seen on twitter are blaming wee Jimmy Crankie. That’s two insults for the price of one. Nicola just laps it up.

  167. jfngw says:

    There is no point replying to Joe, sensibledave or Pete, they are here to gaslight, not debate. Now we have someone who is a Stanley Baxter fan (probably watched Parliamo Glasgow or came across it online).

  168. Bob Mack says:


    Jim Baxter 1967, Rangers, keepy happy at Wembley.


  169. Bob Mack says:

    Keepy uppy .

  170. Gary45% says:

    Awe didums, I wondered how long it would take for the old chestnut,”Anti-English”,
    is that the best you can come up with? seriously is that your take on the situation?
    My comment on Westminster, is a comment on Westminster, the last time I looked Westminster rule covers this sorry excuse of an Island, so to say an Indy Scotland would be 95% the opposite of Westminster, is not Anti-English, if you think that is what I am referring to? there lies “your” problem.
    Try again, this is a good laugh.

  171. Capella says:

    Nicola Sturgeon statemnt on the Glasgow incident:

    Clearly there is already much speculation around this incident, which remains under investigation.

    “I would urge everyone to avoid such speculation, to not share potentially harmful or upsetting material on social media and to follow police advice while investigations are underway

  172. Robertknight says:

    Sensible @ 3:51

    “ There is no “should” or “correct” about any of it.”

    Of course there is … What do you think Westminster was doing all the time the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act (1927) was going through both houses? Watching daytime TV?

    It’s pretty straight forward really…

    *Kingdom of Scotland (843)

    *Kingdom of England (927)

    *Kingdom of Ireland (1542)

    *Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)

    *Kingdom of Great Britain + Kingdom of Ireland = United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland (1801)

    *United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland – Kingdom of Ireland = (United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (1921. Formalised 1927)

    *(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland (2021?)

    *Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of England (2030?)

    Would you still call “Tomato & Vegetable Soup” without the veg “Tomato & Vegetable Soup”? Or would it be more accurate, nay logical, to call it “Tomato Soup”? Or because you recon it’s up to nobody else, you can go and call it “Tomato, Vegetable & Basil Soup” and if someone points out there’s no vegetable or basil, you can tell them to eff’off because it’s none of their business? So very exceptional of you!

  173. Gary45% says:

    I think Keepy Happy sums it up better, Scotland pumped the “so called” World Champions, by playing keepy uppy.
    Watch out I’ll be accused of hurting the feelings of some on here and being called “Anti-English”, Nothing could be further from the truth, but I’ll keep the fun rolling.

  174. jfngw says:

    @Bob Mack

    I know, I was having a laugh. I was waiting for the True Blue correction (I’m pretty sure Baxter1967 won’t be a Celtic fan).

  175. CameronB Brodie says:

    Right-wing populism does have it’s supporter, but they tend to be Tories, UKIPers, BNP, England/Scotland First, Brexiteers, and general supporters of authoritarian racism.

    Scotland is desperate for immigrants, who provide a positive effect on the economy, but immigration is a reserved matter. Some appear to want empathy and human compassion to be controlled from Westminster, as well. Just look at the state of these morally bankrupt troopers of British nationalism

  176. Joe says:


    Unfortunately Dan there are just a few regular commenters here that I have seen solidly express the will to ‘not vote for the SNP under these circumstances’.

    Its all about lending them a vote or trying to convince them out of it, or lighten the content etc.

    However if the line is not drawn in the sand it doesnt matter.

    Besides the Wingers here are actually the more grounded and realistic of the indy movement – to the point that Stuart Campbell himself is not exactly loved despite his immense contributions. Which is actually frightening to behold for anyone not in the bubble.

    The fact is Dan, this club of dreamy eyed EU nationalists are going to have to get hurt before they learn. At that point it might just be possible to express an opinion outside of a very narrowly accepted window of debate and it actually not be sneered at. Unfortunately everyone else will get hurt with them.

  177. Joe says:


    I was laughing at you. You are much funnier than dead people. Even if you sit them around in funny positions with silly hats on.

  178. Baxter1967 says:

    Bob Mack: Scotland fan. Don’t support either side of the Sectarian United. I’ll leave you to your prejudices and bias confirmation through the green/ blue world you inhabit.

  179. Robert graham says:

    It’s just a coincidence that all the right wing nut jobs seem to be repeating the same message and photo of Nicola holding up a We Welcome Refugees poster .

    Now if I was suspicious I might think the English government had a hand in events over the past three weeks , it would be easy , treat the asylum seekers like shit , toss them out of their flats , change the locks , take away any benefits on the pretence that they are being fed so they don’t need any money, then don’t have any checks as to the phycological state they are in , most of them have probably come from war zones so feel vulnerable , allow right wing nutters to protest unhindered, so racking up the temperature, light the match and stand back, Job Done .

    Thanks Tory government but your so transparent it’s laughable , what isn’t fkn Laughable is Scottish people are in the firing line now that ain’t in any way fkn funny , b@*trds every one .

  180. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hope folk are noticing how Joe is trying to position himself as being liberal and rational, despite his obvious predjudices. The same applies to dave.

    National Past and Populism: The Re-Elaboration of Fascism and Its Impact on Right-Wing Populism in Western Europe

  181. Bob Mack says:

    @Robert Graham,

    You called it just as it is. Chapeau!

  182. Bob Mack says:

    @Baxter 1967,

    I thought for a minute you were a soup connoisseur.The 67 pea and ham was superb

  183. Joe says:

    @Robert Graham

    Solid thinking. Id expand it though. There is a reason the corporate world want open borders and it aint for the health of poor people from destroyed countries or even just for cheap labour.

  184. Baxter1967 says:

    Some folk on here make the left wing Canary resemble the Daily Mail.

  185. Baxter1967 says:

    Because the cancel culture/ Marxist cultural politics drives people to the right.

  186. Bob Mack says:


    You appear rattled. I bid you goodnight. Enjoy your soup.

  187. jfngw says:

    @Bob Mack

    I think it’s duck soup here tonight.

  188. Pete says:

    Robert Graham
    You are correct that immigration is controlled by the UK government.
    However, these people are not legal immigrants but refugees or asylum seekers which all countries sign up to under UN legislation.
    Scotland and Glasgow in particular asked for a large number of those people to be sent here presumably for a payment and also to reinforce the caring nature of Scots.
    This was not well publicised and it is only now that your normal hard working socially conservative Scots person is realising what has been signed up to in their name and they are not happy.
    Most folks I know are saying – get them to f..k.

  189. Gary45% says:

    I am a Celtic fan, have been since a boy, I have a Jim Baxter video in the house, the man was a footballing genius.
    Ability over the divide.

  190. Bob Mack says:


    I was thinking Keystone cops myself. They are just as jnept.

  191. Baxter1967 says:

    Bob Mack and jfngw

    Good night too and enjoy your group think bubble. Try speaking to real folk for a change

  192. Bob Mack says:


    Jim Baxter had no divide himself. Friends with many on all sides of Scotland’s various divisions.

  193. CameronB Brodie says:

    Suggesting that hostility to right-wing populism signifies the support of cultural Marxism, indicates you don’t know what you’re talking about. A support for multi-cultural tolerance is simply an opposition to structural racism, and resistance against authoritarian racism.

    Scottish ‘nationalism’ is supportive of multi-cultural tolerance. English/British nationalism, not so much (see Brexit).

  194. callmedave says:

    I knew J. Baxter when I was young he was about seven years older than me both born in Hill of Beath we ‘clipped’ for sides in the ‘Haws’ park on many a Sunday afternoon played the short side across the park jackets for the goals. Just a broken down steel rope with a tar covering round the pitch then held up by short posts.

    Full of fun and nonsense, dribbled round us often for fun, he was one the older ones late teens by then or into the early twenties but we got a game at twelve and thirteen as I was then. No quarter given, tough times for us few ‘budding’ younger players.

    Raith Rovers would not be too happy to know about his Sunday football but seemed a good bloke to me then and had a few regular friends there from going through the local school which was right next to the park. Bought a pub ‘Silver Birch’ I think on the edge of Hill of Beath and Cowdenbeath, I used to drink in it way back then. Bookies in an old shack round the back. 🙂

    Happy days!

    Haw’s = Hill of Beath Hawthorn’ Juvenile team then now Juniors’

  195. Baxter1967 says:

    We’re only having this discussion because someone chose to play the man not the ball and had a go at my irrelevant nome de plume, not politics. Then presupposing I support a certain team because he typecasts people which is a classic identity politics trait. But anyway since you mention it aye slim Jim best Scottish player ever apart from Law.

  196. Sinky says:

    Brit Nat propaganda on TV never fails to amaze me. Keen to rubbish Brazil and USA on Covid deaths but fail to mention that in last seven days average confirmed daily death toll in England is 150 compared to 5 in Scotland. They hide England’s much worse stats be referring to Uk deaths when there are four health services taking their own decisions.

    Why does Scotland’s media fall in line when it is obvious that unless we close our borders and impose quarantine for travellers from hotshots like England all our good work will be undone.

  197. Chang Sha says:

    @RobertKnight 7:56
    Could I make a minor adjustment to your very precise {& correct} naming of the political entities in these islands over the years

    *(United) Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Kingdom of Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (2021?)

    *Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland – Northern Ireland = Kingdom of Great Britain (2030?) or KGB for short

  198. robbo says:

    “Aye slim Jim best scottish player ever apart from Law”

    Take it Jinky J and King Kenny never existed then ? Behave baxter

  199. Sinky says:

    I have no time for The Rangers or Celtic but agree that Law and Baxter are the best Scottish footballers in my lifetime

  200. jfngw says:


    Baxter was a good player but many other Scottish players achieved much more than him. He had a fairly short time at his peak, he never seemed to regain this after he broke his leg (I hope my memory is correct here, it’s over 50 years ago).


    I don’t know why you are having a go at Bob Mack it was me that started this using Stanley Baxter. I tend to find it suspicious when someone turns up to tell me SNP supporters are anti-English, I’m half English, most of my relatives are English, so your definition is either fake or you are uninformed.

  201. Baxter1967 says:

    Alex Ferguson rated Law the best ever just saying. Dalgleish goal at Wembley in 77 and the pitch invasion my favourite Scotland memory

  202. Shug says:

    I can’t find the report of boris,s Union Jack being on the plane upside down

    Are they hiding it

  203. robbo says:


    I see Nessie has been spotted making an appearance 5 times this month.Now why hasn’t the BBC or others reported this? We wouldn’t want them to be reporting anything to put Scotland in the hearts of the world again would we.
    We must be Scotland bad SNP bad Scot Gov bad at al times- rinse repeat .

  204. Meindevon says:

    O/T Here they come. Just received an email from a local estate agent with branches all over I believe.

    ‘Since the beginning of June, we have seen an increase in Londoners looking to move north of the border. This coincides with our friends in Scotland beginning their phased return to normality, with high-streets reopening and lockdown measures easing. If this news has made you dream of the Highland life, we have a Grade A listed Georgian house for you on the Moray coast built by Archibald Simpson in 1827.

    More coming down here too. Viewed a house yesterday where previous viewer was looking to move from St Albans.

  205. Meindevon says:

    Sorry… that St name should read St Albans!

  206. Meindevon says:

    Well that is weird! It won’t print correct name.

    Try ST A l b a n s.

    If not I give up. Watford close enough!

  207. robbo says:

    I see the top virologist of the forum Bipod is spouting his usual bollocks today.

    You need to read more as some doctors what the difference between a flu influenza.a corona virus and a bacterium.

  208. jfngw says:


    I think it’s a red herring, it will depend on what side of the plane you look at and where the imaginary flag pole is.

  209. Shug says:

    You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades

    The one thing they have in common is bitterness and hatred

    They hate catholic’s, Irish, polish, french, germans. Really they just hate everyone that is not english

  210. call me dave says:

    Ten minute discussion there on radio 5 live about the quarantine rules that Boris has decided to bring in for foreign travellers without consultation with the other three colonies have not been given the nod through in Wales.

    UK has power to make the rules on borders but the devolved administrations have the whip hand in matters concerning public
    health when planes and boats etc arrive admits big Auntie.
    Well we know all this already.

    Scotland not even mentioned 🙂
    Tartan elephant in the room kinda thing.

    Look forward to what SGov decide…. next week.
    Pity to throw away progress to date…init! Eh! ….init? 🙁

  211. robbo says:

    Ask some doctors even what the difference is between a flu(influenza) an unknown corona virus and a bacterium(bubonic plague) black death or whatever.

  212. CameronB Brodie says:

    This wold appear appropriate homework for some. Scotland’s government needs to value its’ legal duty of care for Scotland’s public, more than its’ pseudo-legal constitutional obligations to Westminster’s assumed authority. Time Westminster was telt what’s what by an EQUAL partner, under international law.


  213. robbo says:

    Aye its weird Shug considering most of them are of French decent more so than owt else.

  214. jfngw says:


    It’s the A*lba bit, the Rev has it banned, he doesn’t like Sear Elba.

  215. jfngw says:

    @call me dave

    Same on BBC TV News, announce it for UK and refer to British travellers, no indication that the devolved countries have an input, they probably don’t even know or could be bothered to check. The parochialism of the BBC in London is unparalleled.

  216. call me dave says:

    I posted this link yesterday just as the Glasgow incident was starting.

    callmedave says:
    26 June, 2020 at 2:10 pm

    Air farce One: Maybe a repaint required.

  217. call me dave says:

    Oops! Sticky fingers there…

    Aye if you take a look. It’ll be OK from left to right on the other side.

  218. CameronB Brodie says:

    If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it doesn’t, then British constitutionalism can not be considered supportive of Scotland’s civic society. It isn’t (see Brexit).

  219. CameronB Brodie says:

    SORRY….If the British constitution prevents Scotland from taking adequate measures to protect public health in Scotland, it does, then

  220. jfngw says:

    I see Bella Caledonia thinks you can’t be a member of the SNP and vote for another party. How dim can you be.

  221. Fireproofjim says:

    Let me put my wee tale about Jim Baxter.
    I visited a friend in the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary who was in for a kidney transplant.
    In the same two bed ward was the bold Jim Baxter, in for a liver transplant. (No comment about that).
    The surgical teams for each patient were coded by colours, and above each bed was a big sign. Above Jim’s the sign was “The Green Team”.
    When I joked about it he just said “Aye. the doctors in here have a grand sense of humour”.
    A fine fellow and the best left half Scotland ever had.

  222. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Shug says:

    “You can always spot a unionist troll or 77 brigades…
    …Really they just hate everyone that is not English”

    That’s not the official line:

  223. jfngw says:

    I see Pete Wishart has become engaged, I hope she doesn’t ask him any questions, libel to be blocked or in her case locked out. Of course unlikely to get through the wedding vows, the ‘Do You…’ part will almost certainly end up with the officiator being blanked.

  224. Col.Blimp IV says:


    Years of wandering alone through the valley of the shadow the
    Union Jack, has led SNP loyalists to believe that the SNP hold all the blueprints, patents, copywrites, licences and road-maps associated with independence … Have they locked them in a safe and forgotten the combination?

  225. Fireproofjim says:

    Co.Blimp IV
    I like the “Official Line” it’s good fun and no offence taken. Thanks.

  226. Gary45% says:

    Apologies, if needed? regarding any connection with Baxter 1967.
    Jinky J best of that era.
    Yes it is a worry, regarding the increase in travelers coming into Scotland.
    I have heard a few stories this week about campervans coming north, not being allowed access, then spouting Anti Scottish abuse at the locals, yes Anti Scottish abuse.
    Personally the area where I live, there are some roads closed off, locals know all about them, but we are seeing more vehicles driving along roads that are closed, “the sign of a tourist who shouldn’t be here”.
    A strong border control is the only answer, if not there is no point in trying to contain the virus in Scotland.

  227. Dogbiscuit says:

    Ladies and gentlemen given that Sir Patrick Vallance the Governments chiefs Medical Advisor used to work for Glaxo Smith Kline and they signed a contract to deliver covid vaccines to the NHS shortly after Dominic Cummings paid them a visit at Barnards Castle don’t you think that’s somewhat fishy? GSK have a very chequered history when it comes to untested products. Now they have a captive frightened market.
    Hello lurkers .Your hairs getting long.

  228. Beaker says:

    Re closing the border.

    So, you stop all trains and road traffic heading North.
    Do you stop people heading south?
    What about the airports? Quarantine anyone flying into Scotland for 14 days if they’ve come from England?
    Isolate a whole fucking country?
    How much essential freight is transported north?

    It’s not going to happen. Never mind it’s impracticable; it would cause serious political damage for the Scot Govt.

  229. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not denying there may be substance to the biscuit’s conspiracy theory, but I’ve already established he is a man of the right, and I recognise the politics of fear and populism when I see it.

    The pandemic is exposing the weaknesses of populism, but also fuelling authoritarianism
    The Covid-19 pandemic may be exposing the weaknesses of populism. We should not be complacent, however, as authoritarianism is the real problem, warns Daphne Halikiopoulou (University of Reading).

  230. robbo says:

    the dug on, time fur beddie baws.


  231. Robertknight says:

    Chang Sha @ 9;41

    *Kingdom of Scotland + Kingdom of England = Kingdom of Great Britain (1707)

    KoGB was the result of the union of KoS and KoE in 1707.

    If you remove either the KoS or KoE from the equation, then what remains is NOT the KoGB but the ‘other half’ of the pair of Kingdoms that combined to make the KoGB. (Principality of Wales being part of the KoE since the C16th). Think of the former Czechoslovakia as an example – without the two constituent parts being unified, it ceased to exist and each part reverted to its pre-union status.

    The term “united Kingdom” appears in the 1707 Acts between Scotland and England, but was descriptive in referring to Scotland and England being “united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain”. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of Great Britain”.

    The term “United Kingdom” appears in the 1800 Acts between Great Britain and Ireland, and formed the title of the new State: “united into one kingdom by the name of “the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland””. The unified Parliament in London was styled the “Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”

    Use of “United Kingdom” should have ceased in 1921/1927 when the Kingdom of Ireland was dissolved. With Scottish independence, use of the “Kingdom of Great Britain” should also cease with each constituent part reverting to its pre-union status.

  232. Joe says:


    You add something here. Thanks to you its a bit like being in a decent pub where people are having a loud joust with words, sharing stern opinions. You add to this by taking the role of the guy at the corner of the bar, pissed out his face who occasionally shouts incoherently something thats only relevant to himself

  233. CameronB Brodie says:

    The British constitution and the hierarchy of administrative government in Brexitania, is inadequate to the public health challenges presented by covid-19, and needs to take a secondary role to international law, IMHO. Once it’s done that, it can be permanently resigned to history, as far as I’m concerned. 🙂

    Full text.

    American Journal of Public Health. 2005 July; 95(7): 1156–1161
    The Right to Health Under International Law and Its Relevance to the United States

    In recent years, there have been considerable developments in international law with respect to the normative definition of the right to health, which includes both health care and healthy conditions. These norms offer a framework that shifts the analysis of issues such as disparities in treatment from questions of quality of care to matters of social justice.

    Building on work in social epidemiology, a rights paradigm explicitly links health with laws, policies, and practices that sustain a functional democracy and focuses on accountability. In the United States, framing a well-documented problem such as health disparities as a “rights violation” attaches shame and blame to governmental neglect.

    Further, international law offers standards for evaluating governmental conduct as well as mechanisms for establishing some degree of accountability.

  234. Vinny says:

    Thank fuck we got rid of the Wings Troll Hunters.

    Bob Mack

    And all the other pricks who childishly chase down anybody they suspect of not being a member of their Wings Clique.

    They spend all their time handing out special treatment to these so called trolls.

    And all because these posters had the utter fuckin cheek to have a different opinion to the juvenile Wings Clique.

  235. CameronB Brodie says:

    Just saying.

    Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 2017 Oct;126(7): 890-897
    Antagonism Trait Facets and Comprehensive Psychosocial Disability: Comparing Information Across Self, Informant, and Interviewer Reports

  236. CameronB Brodie says:

    And just for the record, it took a decade for me to get it together after my brain injury, but I’m in full control of my executive functions now. Though I admit I’ve got a temper and not that long a fuse.

    From Evaluation to Prediction: Behavioral Effects and Biological Markers of Cognitive Control Intervention

  237. CameronB Brodie says:

    The second half of my degree was a bit nippy, as I’d mangled my brain half way through the course. I reckon I wouldn’t be the individual I am today though, without having to learn a bit about post-modern critical social theory. For those who have a reflexive hostility towards social science, (I see you), it’s the cognitive science component that distinguishes its’ practice from anything that could be described as “cultural Marxism”.

    Interpreting the International Right to Health in a Human Rights-Based Approach to Health

  238. Col.Blimp IV says:


    It would by my reckoning be called – The United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland, AKA England. Come to think of it there has never been a valid reason for not calling the current set-up “AKA England”.

  239. Willie says:


    I note your comments about Bell Caledonia saying that you can’t be a member of the SNP and vote for another party.

    Of course you can in the privacy of the ballot box you can vote for whoever you want. However if you’re a member of the SNP, or any other party for that matter, you’re likely to vote for the party of which you are a member.

    What you cannot do, or should not do is publicly attack the party of which you are a member, or join another party. And it is the joining another party that the rather twee and woke Editor of Bella is maybe getting his knickers a twist about. That he previously supported a left wing group called Rise that sunk without about 0.5% of a vote, he probably finds it difficult to accept that SNP voters, would be more than willing to lend their second vote to an independence list party.

    That however is a stark fact of life. Voters are not daft. Neither are politicians. SNO 1 and 2 delivers little, and in fact in terms of the list seats acts against a super Indy majority.

    But we shall see. The SNP is in terms of Indy becalmed and wedded to devolution.That needs to change.

  240. Sinky says:

    Radio Scotland GMS 8 am morning news all full of American news stories. No mention of latest Covid death figures in England and Scotland but then that would put Scotland in a good light.

    Meanwhile Scotland on Sunday gives pride of place to 17 year retired Pennington.

  241. Dogbiscuit says:

    Capella Scottish Government are responsible for Scottish ‘lockdown’
    Sturgeon sick because she can’t blame ‘white privilege for the Glasgow murders. She needs a ‘Signal boost’.

  242. Polly says:

    This is a great cartoon. Chris Cairns is one of the very best cartoonists I’ve ever seen and consistently on point.

  243. Dogbiscuit says:

    Robbo and Cameron absolutely living in denial. CBB you have established nothing about my politics.
    You’re like a Lib Dem you only do smear tactics You’ve been pulled up for your arseholery by your own side but you still go for it.As for Patrick Vallance have you no suspicions or would you rather just have a pop?
    A pair of Lunatics.

  244. Dan says:

    One ponders why this behaviour towards Joanna Cherry is allowed to continue.

  245. Polly says:

    It seems odd to me that should Scotland gain independence that anyone should still think of calling the remainder any kind of United kingdom. As others have pointed out no doubt, though been in a rush and haven’t read all posts, the United Kingdom came about through joining in union of two countries. If one of those founding members leaves it shows how disunited the Kingdom has been.

    I have no wish to insult anybody, but it seems to me another indication of the imperialist mentality and hangover – hanging on to past glories because they’re scared of or disliking the present smaller stature and, what they seem perhaps to consider, more menial and degraded position. If Scotland does leave and Ireland reunites, Wales is also trying and should they succeed would England still want to call itself the United Kingdom? I have a feeling some people would still, even then, hanker after being called that.

  246. Dogbiscuit says:

    The arrogance of the man CBB who decides what we are politically and ignores accordingly. You’re not selling Independence.You’re lefty student ya boo politicking doesn’t appeal to adults.
    And you know I’m right .
    Everyone your still under house arrest and the old losers on here don’t want to address it .

  247. Dogbiscuit says:

    Polly a lot of the older folks are a bit confused.

    Anyone for a game of carpet bowls?

  248. Rm says:

    If every Scottish politician was an independent and only allowed to be in Holyrood or london for one term, that would be the way to stop the career politicians who get far to set in their ways and end up only thinking of their salary and pension, any thoughts of doing good for Scotland and ending the Union are forgotten about, you’ve seen it with Labour and now it’s happening to the SNP, and with the internet age now you can’t even speak to a politician, it’s like trying to speak to your electric and gas suppliers or any other suppliers you hardly get to speak to anyone it’s getting more and more closed, we have to get a mix of people in the Scottish government but every one an independent speaking for what they believe in not being told how to think and vote by a party.

  249. Polly says:

    Thanks Dan for posting that. It is disgraceful and shows how far party discipline has degraded that speaking out against their own MPs in such a way is allowed from any member of the party far less caseworkers or others in authority or associated with those in authority. Yes, why is it allowed. And silence from on high about this disgusts me. They can’t put a stop to it and they won’t condemn it so they ignore it hoping the vast membership will too.

  250. Polly says:

    Dogbiscuit a lot of younger folk are also confused. Confusion and wrongheadedness is not a prerogative of the old, there’s more than enough to go round, so your share is safe.

  251. Capella says:

    @ Dan 8.40 – wow – turns out one of the staff was ex spook from GCHQ. Wonder why she endorses attacks on Joanna Cherry?

  252. Ottomanboi says:

    If the state of EWNI were to style itself the United Kingdom after the dissolution of the 1707 Union it could do so.
    However how many states would recognize the entity as the old state continuing with all the ‘privileges’ that entails at the international level.
    Scotland certainly would not and effectively that would be enough to weaponize the issue.
    Ex UK, Former UK, rUK might not be acceptable either, indeed any style containing both the terms united and kingdom in juxtaposition.
    However, at this stage in the long haul journey it ought not to get us too worked up.

  253. Capella says:

    England already calls itself the United Kingdom. At least, BBC news bulletins refer constantly to the UK when they mean England. So I expect they would carry on doing so even after there is no UK. I’m surprised they don’t call themselves the British Empire

  254. Ottomanboi says:

    With a historical backward glance this is the image of the state we are dealing with.
    Note the territories of England, Wales and Ireland under the label Great Seal of England.
    We know that whatever the fancy moniker it will always signify England.
    Good luck with the PR Britannia!

  255. Gary45% says:

    Closing the border, and having strong border control, does not mean shutting the country down.
    It means, vehicle checks coming into and leaving Scotland, essential services would be exempt, motorhomes and punters simply heading north breaking the lockdown rules, because they don’t give a s*%t, is what I am referring to.
    Yes its pissing people off not being able to travel, personally I’ve never been more than 5 miles from the house, because I respect the rights of my fellow citizens. But as mentioned before there are many who have ignored the lockdown from the start,endangering others with no care.
    Unfortunately its too late to enforce any sort of control.

  256. ahundredthidiot says:

    So, the Glasgow ‘terror incident/3 dead’ was fake news, but it’s all too late as usual, word is out, people have moved on.

    The NASCAR noose was fake news, the ‘crowd pictures’ on bouremouth news were doctored – more fake news.

    and still folks think there’s a spanish flu like virus kicking about. It would be funny if we weren’t all deprived of our hard won, hard earned freedoms. I would like to think there will be a day of reckoning for the COVID N*zis, but there probably wont.

    A sheep was once thoroughly ridiculed by his mates for suggesting that the dog and the man might be working together – conspiracy theorist!, they yelled.

  257. jfngw says:

    The Union Flag, once the emblem of the football hooligan, now the emblem of the colonial racist.

  258. Vinny says:

    Ed Miliband back on our screens this morning, proving the Red Tories are well and truly back.

    Watch out for Ed’s older brother and Tony Blair making a dramatic re-appearance.

    We are going back to the 1990s here.

    Over to you Nicola!

  259. Sensibledave says:

    Robert Knight 7.56pm

    … again, why do you care? Scotland would be an independent country but you still want to tell the rest of us what we can and can’t do?

    The point is, we would name the country whatever we want and if that happens to be the UK … then so be it. You do know, Greenland isn’t very green?

    I know that some of the nut jobs on here can find grievance everywhere they look … but really?

    Anyway, I rather suspect that whilst you Robert feature as demonstrating the sort values an independent Scotland might aspire to .. then the cause will struggle to make progress. It is a very unattractive look.

  260. Vinny says:

    And where does Scottish Labour’s left wing lunatic leader fit in to this new look english Labour Party?

    Leonard seems to be out in a limb here.

    Scottish Labour will soon be polling single digit figures.

  261. Dan says:

    Capella says: at 9:24 am

    Wonder why she endorses attacks on Joanna Cherry?

    No wonderment going on in my mind on that question. The real question as Polly highlights is why Party discipline is continuing to be allowed to erode as this shite unfolds in full public view.
    Look at some of these individual’s twitter feeds and they are never off it tweeting inane garbage which often get no responses or likes because it is infantile shite.
    Then there’s the periodic protecting their tweets, or wiping content, or starting a new account because the content they’ve accrued reads as a skipfire of liability for them.
    Is that really the behaviour and actions of a sensible trustworthy persons operating in a political environment trying to win hearts and minds to a cause, or is it wanton idiotic vandalism?

  262. @ahundredthidiot,

    `A sheep was once thoroughly ridiculed by his mates for suggesting that the dog and the man might be working together – conspiracy theorist!, they yelled.`

    like that 🙂

  263. Vinny says:

    Turned on the Brewer politics show and thought I had turned on the N Ireland version.

    They had a presenter on who was from N Ireland.

    Could BBC Scotland not find any Scottish presenters out that that could have filled that vacancy???

    Are we so utterly fuckin useless at everything???

    Or maybe there are Scottish presenters out there, but don’t support the Union,,, this would automatically stop them from becoming a BBC Scotland employee.

    Because as we all know, to get a job at Pacific Quay you have to bleed blue blood.

  264. Dr Jim says:

    What England calls itself post Independent Scotland, they can call themselves the UK of England Grand Duchy of the Imperial Empire of the world if they like, it’s not as if a name is going to improve their status in it

  265. Rm says:

    If the Scottish Government need to keep this virus in check they’ll have to close the border, Scots people’s health is devolved and it’s the only way to keep us healthy, no camper vans or tourists from south of the border until the virus doesn’t exist down there, we’re doing well up here why jeopardise that.

  266. Sensibledave says:


    in order to resond to you I would have to do a lot of cutting and pasting of your oft posted views to demonstrate my point. But you will still deny your bigotry because it has become second nature to you … so I can’t be arsed.

    The comment that started this though was a little “throw away” from you, you wrote: “… Call yourselves “Ironyland” although that would be lost on your populace.”

    … Its not particulaly awful, its not particularly offensive but I can’t see any mention of the word “Westminster” there? Its just casual bigotry as a summation of the characteristics of folk from a particular country.

  267. Sensibledave says:

    Dr JIm

    … you should be very worried!

    We are in total agreement!

    OMG! Watch your back sir!

  268. Capella says:

    @ Dan – perhaps nobody has complained. I never read these people so only find out if someone else posts – thx. However, the group which judges bad behaviour appears to be dominated by Wokus Dei. So it’s unlikely they would take action against their own dear colleagues.

    Joanna Cherry would be best placed to complain to the SNP leader and Twitter.

  269. Vinny says:

    RM 19.43am

    You say “close the border”.

    I am all for that and keep those english bastards out.

    But Boris is about to open up the skies.

    What are you going to do with tourists flying in from a over the world?

    Because then you would need THREE sets of Laws in Scotland.

    You would need laws for Scots, laws for the english and laws for foreign tourists.

    How are you going to govern over such a mixture of scenarios and circumstances???

  270. Breeks says:

    Capella says:
    28 June, 2020 at 9:24 am
    @ Dan 8.40 – wow – turns out one of the staff was ex spook from GCHQ. Wonder why she endorses attacks on Joanna Cherry?

    Suddenly makes you realise why they set upon Mark Hirst with such gusto too… He knows too much, and who’s who.

    The Holyrood “Base“ is rigged to blow Scotland. The control points have been infiltrated, the watchdogs are quietened, the alarms and communication wires are cut. The Improvised Explosive Debates have been deployed strategically, where they are calculated to do the most damage at the most critical time.

    One IED was discovered and made safe by a controlled explosion. The Improvised Explosive Debate to destroy Alex Salmond’s personal reputation and political legacy was discovered just in time, and disarmed, revealing some invaluable forensic evidence leading back to the culprits. It seems undeniable we have a t-ractor in our midst, and probably more than one!

    We have intelligence on further expected attacks. There are two more known devices, but the location and timing of the Gender Recognition IED, and the Hate Speech is Thoughtcrime IED, are still to be established. There could be more… be alert.

    Call out the guard Scotland! Sound the alarm, cover the exits, and put all on the searchlight lights. Get everybody out their bunks, awake and mustered on their feet. We need an urgent and meticulous search of the premises. The enemy has breached our perimeter. We must find the extent of the infiltration, find and disarm these IED’s before they go off, or the whole place will blow.

    Where is Joanna Cherry? Is she safe? Get to her. Make sure she is safe and out of harms way. She is a valuable and high priority target them.

    Heed the warning, – those of you loyal to an Independent Scotland. Act now…. This is not a drill.

    We don’t need a whistleblower, it’s too late for that. Send for the klaxon sounder.

  271. Republicofscotland says:

    “The Union Flag, once the emblem of the football hooligan, now the emblem of the colonial racist.”


    I think the colonial racist came before the football hooligan, I’d say both still exist and both still wear their Union Jack as a badge of honour.

    There aint no black in the Union Jack, I’m sure that saying was used in the UK years ago.

  272. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Blairite Branch Manager incoming:

    “‘Anonymous’ Richard Leonard could spell disaster for Labour in Holyrood election, Keir Starmer told”

    He has the Leaders Backing though (so kiss of death):

    “Starmer backs Leonard as Scottish leader despite being told Labour voters ‘don’t know who he is’

    New Labour leader says he will “lead from the front” in Scotland – but insists Richard Leonard has his full backing”

  273. Dogbiscuit says:

    The Independent Republic of Wokusvuela sounds reasonable to me.

  274. susan says:

    @ Capella 10:56 am. Humorous but true unfortunately.

  275. Dogbiscuit says:

    Once you’ve finished spitting on a flag maybe you can get around to smashing statues.

  276. Republicofscotland says:

    English tourists visiting Scotland might be quarantined for two weeks, and if they fail to do so, they could be fined £480 if they don’t obey the Scottish governments rules.

    Seems fair enough to me.

  277. Dogbiscuit says:

    Keir Stormer railroaded Julian Assange.
    Stormer doesn’t believe in justice. He is just another Establishment flunky .

  278. Dogbiscuit says:

    Republicofscotland you’re coming across as quite fascistic. Can you not hear yourself?
    The people on here who usually rail against borders are now advocating border controls. Welcome to reality.

  279. Republicofscotland says:

    England’s Home Office forces out of UK Aussie frontline Covid-19 nurse whose worked tirelessly throughout the lockdown, she now working in a cancer unit until she’s thrown out of Scotland.

    It’s pretty obvious that they’ll be a boom in cancer cases after we exit lockdown, forcing out harding folk or making their lives difficult as England’sHome Office has been doing with EU citizens and those further afield, including this hard working brave woman, is nothing short of disgusting and disgraceful.

    There’s a million good reasons for Scottish independence, and this is just one of them. Lets make sure we dump this ghastly union once and for all.

  280. Papko says:

    “A sheep was once thoroughly ridiculed by his mates for suggesting that the dog and the man might be working together – conspiracy theorist!, they yelled.”

    And whether they were or weren’t, they all ended up on the same plate beside the roast potatoes.

    We need radical new policies in Scotland, new ways of thinking that overhaul the old.

    They wont just be sheep in iScotland, if they have any creative muse they can get time off to finish their album, or just ruminate.

  281. Sensibledave says:

    Gary 45%

    … I wonder if you can help me. Im looking for the comments that slapped down Vinny for his post above where he wrote:

    “I am all for that and keep those english bastards out.”

    … but I can’t seem to find any, maybe its a problem with my laptop computer?

  282. Capella says:

    @ susan – thought Breeks was taking the p**s – but very cleverly.
    Should we be doing something?

  283. Republicofscotland says:

    “Republicofscotland you’re coming across as quite fascistic. Can you not hear yourself?”


    The word fascist is used far to frequently and is often seen as a easy way out for someone who cannot find the words to express themselves properly, Godwin’s Law, for you, definitely applies.

  284. Dan says:

    This tweet thread is just one week of quality UK shiz…
    Best dig out the 3 in 1 oil and lube those mouse scroll wheel bearings so they don’t overheat!

  285. Dogbiscuit says:

    We are all being railroaded by the caring sharing Sturgeon Bill Gates and the Clinton Foundation Hillary slush fund. Maybe Hillary Clinton should be our first minister.
    You really should apprise yourselves on the utter corruption of the mob Nicola Sturgeon is signed up to.
    We are being forced into the climate fanatics world view which is bogus.
    Surely by now you all should realise the media is trumpeting for a rigged game a rigged non debate.
    People frightened to offend so they don’t have honest debate. No honest debate no honest policies .Political railroading of the general publc is already costing lives ,the three innocent white men murdered in Reading who don’t merit any news coverage because those victims were not politically expedient. The murders in Glasgow by yet again another illegal alien. There are those who take kindness and tolerance for daftness.
    Also this house arrest appears to be fucking a lot of people up. The brass neck of Nicola Sturgeon makes Carlaw seem dull.

  286. Davie Oga says:

    Re:English tourists

    “English tourists may be…. could be…..”

    No decisive leadership. No decisive action.

    I have a hospitality business. English tourists generally make up about 30% of our market. This summer we are looking at having minimal to 0 trade from Rest of world travellers and some Irish custom. We have effectively written off this season already. Hard times for sure.

    But here’s the thing. My family and my employees health and safety is our number 1 concern. We will not compromise this for
    the sake of a limited amount of trade from
    from people with one of the highest rates of infection in the world.

    We have taken the decision as a company to restrict all travellers from Great Britain unless the can provide

    1) proof of 14 days quarantine
    2) a negative Covid 19 test for all parties using our establishment

    These conditions are deliberately difficult to meet. A kind of polite way of saying.

    English are barred. Keep your disease ridden herd immunitiy to yourselves thanks.

    Not wanted here.

  287. Bob Mack says:


    In both cases mental illness was a factor. A major factor.

    Should we now get rid of anyone with mental illness or just the black ones!!

  288. Dogbiscuit says:

    Republicofscotland Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

  289. Dogbiscuit says:


  290. jfngw says:


    Your correct in the factuality of it but I was just referencing how more of the public seeing it. I can only comment for my lifetime.

    In the 60’s it was ‘I’m backing Britain’, World Cup Willy, The Italian Job, the flag was portrayed as a positive.

    The 70’s it was taken over by England football fans.

    The 80’s Thatcher wrapped herself in it to try and sell of all our assets.

    The 90’s Blair tried to reignite the sixties with his ‘Cool Britannia’

    2000’s The Tories commandeered it for their tree logo.

    Now we shun it, ‘if it got a jack, put it back’. The symbol of the pea brained who are happy to be the subordinates of another country.

    Also, I hope that £450 fine is per person, £1800 for a family of 4, that should deter most of them.

  291. Republicofscotland says:

    The English propaganda media machine the BBC, its media staging post in Scotland (BBC Scotland) has come under fire for falsely reporting that three people were killed in Glasgow on Friday during an incident in the city. When asked to identify the source of their misleading information the BBC refused to divulge where it came from.

    Never forget Scots are spoon fed what England wants you to hear. The terrestrial tv you watch is completely Anglicised to the point that most folk in Scotland now think its the norm.

  292. Dogbiscuit says:

    Don’t be daft Bob the guy killed three people butchered half a dozen others. He knew what he was doing and how to do it .What colour were the victims on the reception desk silly cunt?

  293. Bob Mack says:


    What colour were the other three guys who died to stop him ?.

    Inconveniently black.

  294. Bob Mack says:

    Tried not died.

  295. Vinny says:

    You get the feeling that our white Anglo Saxon “neighbours from hell” think they were born with this virus immunity shield.

    They think they have the Gid given right to stroll around the globe without restrictions.

    It’s what their ancestors done and they are only continuing the tradition.

    They are english after all.

  296. Famous15 says:

    I have been informed that the BBC misled us by saying three people died in Glasgow.

    Though six people are in hospital only the perpetrator died.

    Is this correct?

  297. jfngw says:


    The BBC ‘Scotland branch’ are livid that the death rate in Scotland is now so low, they are flaying around for any negative figure they can find.

    Be assured when the next person dies of the virus, it’s a certainty there will be more deaths, it will likely be the headline, ‘Corona Virus Deaths Return To Scotland’, then five minutes on how the virus has not been eliminated as promised.

  298. Republicofscotland says:

    “Now we shun it, ‘if it got a jack, put it back’. The symbol of the pea brained who are happy to be the subordinates of another country”


    All very true, as for the above there seems to be no let up in the number of items in supermarkets that now display the Butchers Apron. There may even come a time when Scotland loses its Geographical Indicators (GI) with regards to food and drink and its protected status.

    How many more reasons do we need to cut loose this ball and chain of a union forever.

  299. Vinny says:

    So when these english tourists return from abroad carrying the virus, there will more than likely be a rise in cases in England.

    This could lead to there schools being delayed in opening.

    Which was probably caused by the very people who wanted their schools opened up in September but was delayed due to people bringing the virus back from abroad.

    And round and round and round they go.

  300. Bob Mack says:


    Yes that is correct.

  301. Dan says:

    Vinny says: at 12:03 pm

    …And round and round and round they go.

    A Tissue A Tissue They All Fall Down…

    Darwin Award judges look on with a keen eye.

  302. Republicofscotland says:

    “Be assured when the next person dies of the virus, it’s a certainty there will be more deaths, it will likely be the headline, ‘Corona Virus Deaths Return To Scotland’, then five minutes on how the virus has not been eliminated as promised.”


    You won’t see this on the BBC’s media staging post in Scotland, aka Reporting Scotland, that England’s Chief Medical officer Chris Whitty has said that England’s terrible strategy of opening everything up again might lead to another 30,000 deaths in England.

  303. jfngw says:

    @Bob Mack

    Don”t tell me dogbiscuit has his facts wrong, that will be a first, won’t it?

  304. Joe says:

    @Breeks at 10:56am

    I’ll take that as a nod in my direction. Even though its not. Maybe my name should be SNEWS – Scottish Nationalist Early Warning System.

    Now that breeks has now stated what ive been labouring to warn of years, maybe youll start paying attention?

  305. defo says:

    Another apposite ‘toon CC.
    Carlot’s probably dealing the stuff now.

  306. jfngw says:

    I liked that line on twitter, ‘Gordon Brewer, the man that puts GB into BBC Scotland output’.

  307. ahundredthidiot says:

    Famous15 @ 11:57

    oh, come now, you didn’t ACTUALLY believe those initial news reports, did you??

  308. Chang Sha says:

    @RobertKnight 12:18
    You are of course perfectly correct
    My original comment was a pathetic attempt at a joke

  309. Effijy says:

    A reminder of England and the BBC using their
    Empire name of United Kingdom to describe themselves.

    Scotland’s Andy and Jamie Murray won All the Davis Cup
    Points that took the United Kingdom into the finals.

    Sue Barker absolutely gushing at the prospect of being in the final
    For the first time in her life says-

    “ I just cannot wait to see England in the Final”.

    Scotland went on to win it for England if you don’t follow tennis.

    A lot of Balls in a Racket just about sums up the BBC.

  310. Chang Sha says:

    A joke based on the acronym KGB

  311. Ottomanboi says:

    A wise relative compared the rainbow clad Woke tendency to the truculent child who smashes a toy but having nothing else to play with attempts to reconstruct the toy. The process produces an incoherent object of asymmetric, disordered elements which still failing to satisfy must be rebroken ad infinitum until the ‘correct form’ is achieved.
    The emptier the vessel the louder the noise.

  312. Bob Mack says:


    Yes, it is tragic and yet the battle is fought in many fronts.

    Nicola Sturgeon is popular in her own right and yet we can plainly see he is not the leader who will gain us Independence. She has neither the guile not the combative attitude required.

    Surrounding her are a cabal of disruptive acolytes determined that the will of the majority is superceded by the will of the minority. They occupy those positions of power which give them influence beyond their worth. No doubt there are many to whom independence is undesirable in any event.

    Like Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings.

    If the SNP cannot reclaim the party and it’s primary function of seeking Independence for the Scottish people, then we the voters must look elsewhere.

    A house divided cannot stand.

  313. Dogbiscuit says:

    If three people didn’t die then it looks like I’m the silly cunt for falling for it. I apologise Bob Mack.

  314. robertknight says:


    Is it so difficult to get your head around the most basic of facts?

    The unified “Kingdom of Great Britain” was created in 1707 with the political union of the Kingdom of Scotland and Kingdom of England, (The name was penned a century earlier by James VI & I, but wasn’t popular/used outside the Royal Court), whereas the “United Kingdom” of Great Britain & Ireland only lasted from 1801 to 1921.

    The term “United Kingdom” and the other (Kingdom of) Ireland-related symbology was retained purely as a cost/face saving exercise back then, and a similar exercise may well take place for exactly the same reasons in the event of Scottish Independence in future – the “UK” moniker retained, (“United” with who you may ask… itself?), and with the blue kept in the Union Flag. (You could argue that as the Union Flag predates the 1707 Act of Union by a century, its original status as a “Royal Union Flag” could be restored, as is the case now in Canada).

    Personally, I care not if when driving south I see a sign saying “Welcome to Disneyland” where the M74 finishes and the M6 starts, but the facts are there to see for those who care to look.

    Try spending less time playing the ‘keyboard warrior’ here and more time with your head in a book educating yourself, Dave. Ignorance is seldom a good look!

  315. robertknight says:

    Chang Sha…

    Sorry – was too late in the day for me. Good effort though. 🙂

  316. Dan says:

    One for a lurking Tinto perhaps?
    A transcript of Charles Waddie’s ‘How Scotland Lost Her Parliament’ (1891) available from iScot.

  317. Joe says:

    @Bob mack

    Interesting that you are agreeing. Trouble is that its not what Breeks (nor I) said. The SNP leadership dont just ‘have their own ideas’. They are controlled assets and their goal is to sink any true independence movement. Its actually much worse than that but this explanation serves just fine for now.

  318. Joe says:


    Dont appologise for it. You are talking to people who have largely swallowed every establishment lie going and consider themselves rebels and free thinkers. Its ok to be wrong.

  319. Dogbiscuit says:

    A new political party should eschew climate wokism the bogus Green ‘new deal’ which is code for mass unemployment.Why do you think Sturgeon is so interested
    Everyone knows that climate lobby are funded by the people who crashed the economy in 2008 the banks.
    Many people have said it on here ‘ follow the money’ in universal basic income?
    The politics of reality .Make full use of oil and gas it’ll be used to underpin the so called green economy. I’m sure a majority of voters would vote for politicians who have no truck with gender madness.
    A party that doesn’t lock its people up in order to foist unpopular unworkable policies on us.
    It doesn’t take much to know that media are bullshitting about climate change. The climate lobby have the same powers of disaster prediction as the Jehovah’s Witness. In fact they lie like eyewitnesses.
    None of the ages big issues are being debated honestly mainly because there is so much power and money to be grubbed from bullshit and exaggeration.

  320. ahundredthidiot says:

    The main stream media has a stranglehold on information, therefore a stranglehold on peoples ability to think.

    One thing we ALL have in common, is that we have all fallen for it at some point or another. The internet was changing this dynamic with YT and the like, but ‘they’ have cottoned on to this and now when you search for something on google, you tend to get 36 pages of main stream news pages and now YT and twitter are being ‘sensored’ – which roughly translates to; ‘if we want to hear your opinion, we’ll give you it’.

    Without a doubt we live in dangerous times. we are all of us a part of this continual creation we call life – we each decide to pull a little towards heaven or hell by our actions and words – sometimes both (but usually we lean more one way as we age and gain experience). Some humans are intent on evil to succeed – ironically we sort of need that evil to exist, for how else would we measure ‘good’.

    The default position with the MSM should be suspicion and mistrust – until you are convinced otherwise and your ‘gut’ leads to to ‘believe’ what you are hearing and seeing.

    GRA and Hate Crime Laws are clear and present dangers in our midst – right now. and if there is any dragon that needs slaying – it’s those two.

  321. Dogbiscuit says:

    A strange thing happened to the above post quite beyond my control.

  322. jfngw says:

    Until we rid ourselves of this union Scotland will always be presented as a failure by a media driven from another country, a media that can only present the bad in the country and ignore the good. A media that will always highlight when Scotland is worse than the rest but ignore when it is better.

    Were politicians travel to another country to be ridiculed and be put in their place to the rousing cheers of the politicians from another country and their stooge vichy representatives in the chamber.

    Currently Labour & Tory are fighting for that 37% of Scots that don’t want independence at any time, they would kill as many Scots as necessary to maintain this union. That’s why the Tory leader in Scotland calls for us to be aligned with the country with one of the worst virus death rates in Europe (if not the worst as it’s impossible to make truly valid comparisons). They are fighting over second place and appealing to the lowest common denominator of their loyalist supporters.

  323. ahundredthidiot says:


    re the environment/climate change etc, if you have a spare couple of hours I would suggest Michael Moores new movie ‘Planet of the Humans’ which can be found on YT.

    I don’t buy the crap about population, but the science behind green energy – by lifelong committed environmentalists – is fascinating.

  324. Dr Jim says:

    The people of England are being lied to by the media every bit as much as Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland

    *Right across the UK* means England
    *In Scotland* means separate but owned by the UK of England
    *In Wales* means who cares but the UK of England owns it
    *In Northern Ireland* means we never cared whether the UK of England owns it or not

    The UK of England media is instructed to remind the people of the UK of England that they own everything but anything bad that happens in these other places is their own responsibility (devolution), but if anything good happens then the mighty UK of England are the creators of that

    Most of the folk in England have never been to Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland and never intend to, they could barely pick them out on a map and don’t care if they could anyway

    England is like a mini America, brainwashed by themselves into believing what they think they voted for even when it becomes clear it’s not

    God bless America, Rule Britannia God bless the Queen

    Everybody needs a slogan

  325. dakk says:

    The English state will never voluntarily call itself by it’s real name.

    They are too fly for that.

    Hiding behind various nom de plumes when it suits is their modus operandi.

    Far worse than the likes of their Soviet or Yugoslav counterparts in the past.

    Aided and abetted of course by their little helpers in their colonies/republics.

    The only way they will be forced to come out into the open is if their useful idiots abandon them.

  326. robbo says:

    I see this horror is back. I wonder what carcrash carlaw will say about a tory councillor breaking scotgov rules?

    This THING was a teacher at one point. A horrible weasel of a wumen imho.

  327. Republicofscotland says:

    Robbo@ 1.30pm.

    Yes she has a Calmanesque ugliness to her, inside and out, and she’s a Tory, and like most “Scottish ” Tories she loathes the SNP government, will the failed car sales man and leader of the Tory branch office in Scotland Jackson Carlaw force her to toe the line, we’ll just have to wait and see.

  328. Republicofscotland says:

    The already widely ridiculed British PM Boris Johnson, has come under fire again for childish antics, this time the clown prince of Westminster attempted to do push up for the Mail on Sunday newspaper.

    Of course Johnson is undoubtedly more of a comical extrovert of a politician than a real serious political leader, his numerous gaffs and racial slurs, belie his deep conceitedness, and unwavering belief that he’s the right man, and the best man for the job in his own mind.

    How the UK public was fooled into electing such a man, reveals the real power of the media for all to see. He’s the UK’s very own Ronald Reagan, now who is our Merrill Lynch I wonder?

  329. callmedave says:

    Famous15 says:
    28 June, 2020 at 11:57 am
    I have been informed that the BBC misled us by saying three people died in Glasgow.
    Yes that is correct.
    The anchor woman on big Auntie ‘live news’ on the day asked the BBC Scotland woman ‘on site’ reporter if the three deaths included the policeman. She didn’t know!

    Mind you it was all happening at the time and the ‘rumour’ was unreliable as told to the Scottish reporter a few minutes before.
    But she did say 3 deaths reported.

    Which turned out to be wrong thank goodness.

    Boris limbering up doing ‘a press up’ for the cameras assuring us he’s as fit as a butcher’s dog and the economy will bounce back quickly nice story on big Auntie news.

    Next up the Auntie takes us to the heid council man about the 600 new corona virus cases in Leicester confirmed yesterday. 🙁

    Then Sage medical man worryingly warns about other hot spots likely to appear.

    But air corridors and foreign holidays the main story

  330. jfngw says:

    Here’s one for the caption competition:

    Richard Desmond ‘Yes, of course we’ll CGI in the woman later’.

  331. ScotsRenewables says:

    Has your YES group joined the National Banner Library yet?

    Looking for local YES groups to join the library. Sponsor 5 banners and rotate every month with other groups to create a constantly changing collection of fascinating info and memes to get people thinking.

    Now IS the time for this. It’s an affordable and effective alternative to a billboard campaign that we can all get behind.

  332. CameronB Brodie says:

    We appear to be up to our elbows in crocogators again. Perhaps they are feel a little uncomfortable we me shining a spotlight on the racist and authoritarian right-wing populism that threatens Scotland’s existence?


  333. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Polly says:@8:49

    “…They can’t put a stop to it and they won’t condemn it so they ignore it hoping the vast membership will too.”

    They can, and it would appear are constitutionally obliged to if even a small portion of the membership complain.

    Code of Conduct for Members…

    5. No member may make racist statements in any context.

    8. No member shall abuse, harass or bully or maliciously defame any
    other member whether via the media or otherwise.

    A somewhat flexible interpenetration of rule 5. was applied recently, resulting in the suspension of a GE candidate … what’s sauce for the Goose eh?

  334. Republicofscotland says:

    It looks like, according to radio news the City of Leicester will be thrown back into lockdown as Covid-19 cases begin to spike again.

  335. jfngw says:


    ‘City of leicester’

    How can it be, I’ve been assured by some posters on here that Covid doesn’t really exist, it’s just the flu, there has been no first wave so there can’t be a second. Surely people wouldn’t just post bollocks here would they?

  336. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Breeks@ 10:56

    “We don’t need a whistle-blower, it’s too late for that. Send for the klaxon sounder.”

    But not the Spade-caller, he may fall foul of rule No5.

    Oh Shit! …Just shot myself in the foot.

  337. jfngw says:

    @Col.Blimp Iv

    To be honest I think I’m in breach of rule 8, because I firmly believe some of our elected SNP politicians are complete wankers (some are actually women, so wankers may not be the correct terminology).

  338. Republicofscotland says:


    The Mayor of Leicester whose already broken the lockdown rules at the height of the pandemic, is desperate to play it down.

  339. dakk says:

    Rep of Scotland said
    Leicester will be thrown back into lockdown as Covid-19 cases begin to spike again

    Indeed,also Texas and Florida have had new spikes with ICUs nearing full capacity thus prompting rethinks on bar and restaurant openings.

    Letting the virus run out of control is likely to have more serious economic consequences for those areas than those who manage to competently contain it.

    Death rates aside.

  340. Col.Blimp IV says:


    Pointing out maleficence isn’t abuse and you can’t defame someone by telling the truth.

  341. callmedave says:

    Figs today..(weekend)

    It has been a long time since big Auntie posted any corona virus figs for England only but she still lets the colonies know what it is where they are.

    Jolly hockey sticks news and air bridges for holidays consumes all the BBC ‘UK’ and ‘England’ news blogs darn Sarf.

    Auntie thinks it all over!
    Oh wait! ….Leicester a small blip on horizon. 🙁

    Scotland no deaths 3-days in a row is not news darn Sarf!

    Figs today:

    N. Ireland………01……..Total…..505….BBC
    England………..*18…… data..*SUN
    UK………… data…….Total…*43532..*SUN

    There may be additional deaths later when HMGov announce their numbers.

  342. Stuart MacKay says:

    From the BBC:

    The UK government looks set to put money behind a rescue package for the ailing satellite company OneWeb.

    The London start-up had been trying to build a network of spacecraft to deliver broadband connections but was forced to seek bankruptcy protection in March because of insufficient funds.

    It’s understood Boris Johnson’s government could now put about £500m into the project, in part because it believes OneWeb can also provide a satellite navigation service.

    This has become an important issue since the UK lost its membership of the European Galileo sat-nav system after exiting the EU.

    The OneWeb service would be backup for the US-based Global Positioning System (GPS) in case it is attacked or fails.

    If GPS were to go down motorists, businesses and the military would be left without a precise navigation signal.

    The prime minister has agreed to put up taxpayer money for the purchase, as part of a larger private sector consortium bid, the BBC understands.

    Downing Street declined to comment on the reported negotiations to buy a stake in OneWeb.


    Another half-assed clusterfuck that will burn fantastic amounts of money for no return. Best of British? Don’t make me larf.

    There’s a world of difference between running a global navigation system and just launching a few tin cans into space. The money would be better spend on better road signs and carrier pigeons.

    Maybe they could make the Trident replacement compatible with it. Then the rest of the world could sleep a little more safely at night.

  343. callmedave says:

    Figs corona virus today official:

    N. Ireland………01……..Total…..505….BBC

    Still no figs for England given.

    The WM Gov shuffles the four separate Union cards in the pack and Hey Presto!

    Here’s a UK daily figure for you all!

    Aided and abetted by Auntie BBC. 🙁

  344. jfngw says:

    @Stuart MacKay

    It certainly looks like the type of company WM would want to invest in, filed for bankruptcy on 27th March, laid off 85% of its staff, only has about 11% of the needed satellites launched.

    And of course no guarantee these satellites will be able to work as GPS units, they weren’t designed for that purpose, maybe another the boat contract.

    Visit their website, who appears as one of the partners, certainly in the photograph anyway, it’s our old friend Richard Branson.

  345. CameronB Brodie says:

    Without a respect for international law, Westminster will never respect the human rights of those living in Scots, most significantly our rights to health and development.

    Making Equality Count
    Chapter 5
    The Social Psychology of Discrimination:
    Theory, Measurement and Consequences

  346. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry…those living in Scotland….

    British Journal of Social Psychology (1986). 25, 231-252
    The significance of the social identity concept for social psychology with reference to individualism, interactionism and social influence

  347. jfngw says:

    For those that want a non BBC satellite story, or the government press release is probably more apt, here is one from the guardian:

  348. Colin Alexander says:

    The Treaty of Union is regularly mentioned on Wings.

    Here is another example of a Treaty:

    The Lakota People ( Sioux) made a treaty with the USA Govt which the USA Govt breached by taking the Lakota’s land. Eg Black Hills.

    The Sioux sued for breach of the Treaty ( if you’ll forgive the pun).

  349. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Stuart MacKay 3.32pm

    I used to work in the satellite industry. The OneWeb “solution” is technically unproven as it involves piggybacking GPS technology onto a low orbit constellation of satellites, which are really too small. ALL other GPS systems (US, Russian, Chinese and EU) use orbits much further out.

    Few credible authorities in the industry would opt for the ridiculously risky option now being pursued by the UK government. The UK helped design the EU’s Galileo project. Petty Brexitania nationalism losing us huge amounts of money again.

  350. Polly says:

    Col.Blimp IV says:
    28 June, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    Yes, what’s sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander but as we’ve all seen in recent times it isn’t working that way. So I would repeat myself they can’t put a stop to it and they won’t condemn it so ignore it hoping most members and voters do too.

    My own view is that the reason Sturgeon can’t put a stop to it is that she’s privately supported those people so much and/or given so many promises that she’s not kept she now no longer has the authority to condemn them. They’ve felt aggrieved for a while at the slow pace of reforms they want and which they felt she was fully behind and which would get through Parliament with her backing and when concerns were raised about self ID she did what she has done time and again (with Eu citizens as well as independence folk) and drawn back in her cautious way. EU citizens were unhappy, we were unhappy, but the trans activists are also unhappy. They’re rather more aggressive in their unhappiness though. And since she let them down she maybe feels she cannot condemn them openly, Though I would doubt she has tried in private either since I’m sure they’re vocal enough and tactless enough to complain publicly about that should she have tried. So it’s head down time and talk of other things hoping not too much damage is done and poll numbers stay high for 2021.

    People have previously complained and got nowhere. Maybe not enough people have complained about the same thing. I don’t know what it will take but I hope something does transpire to influence their policy at present, for the whole edifice is crumbling as we speak and failure by them to address this is doing more harm than anything else. Sometimes even making the wrong move can be better than dithering; look at Gordon Brown failing to try to form a government, even a minority one. Waiting it out in a bunker mentality while furies rage outside is the epitome of weakness and it will taint Sturgeon eventually. She still so far seems a strong leader, and many still believe her to be a good one, but as time drags on, well…

  351. Ottomanboi says:

    Life is relatively short and sometimes brutal, but you dont have to keep rubbing it in with your stats.
    A toast…TO LIFE!
    the other thing can wait.
    @Colin Alexander.
    The US and its mistreatment of the indigenous peoples has been veiled by the folksy legends of the Old West as seen through the Hollywood prism, similarly the illegal annexation of Hawaii and the quasi colonial status of Puerto Rico. The US is the current top neo-colonialist power, whether it be hard or soft.

  352. Polly says:

    Thanks to everyone for the info and articles on Oneweb. It wasn’t something I was much aware of and it makes grim reading.

  353. Capella says:

    I’ve been browsing Calton Jock’s blog. This quote is in one of his recent posts:

    Unionist determination to wipe Scottish Law from the Statutes of Westminster was advanced in 1999 when the “Crown Office” for near 500 years independent from government was transferred lock, stock, and barrel to the political control and direction of the Westminster appointed Scottish Secretary at the Scottish Office.

    Can anyone confirm? Could this be the reason for the spate of political prosecutions lately?

  354. Stuart MacKay says:

    jfngw, Andy Ellis,

    The laughable part is that you can’t really have a navigation system that is any way usable by the military without also having a launch capability. Otherwise you’re going to be at the mercy of whichever foreign country you use to launch the satellites. Just like Trident and it’s successor there will be a kill switch built into the equipment but whoever supplies it – just in case.

    I’m sure Boris and co. in their “we’ll muddle our way through this” way are thinking that, OneWeb are more or less what they need:

    1. Company – check.
    2. Satellites – check.

    OK, chaps, looks like we have everything we need. Let’s go for launch and make Britain great again.

    Apart from the University of Surrey, not so Great Britain’s ambitions to be a space power died with the Blue Streak.

  355. Dan says:

    Stuart MacKay says: at 5:07 pm

    Apart from the University of Surrey, not so Great Britain’s ambitions to be a space power died with the Blue Streak.

    Hey, don’t be be dissin British industry’s launch potential.
    Vauxhall Astra GTE was a bit of a rocket back in the day.
    And if they’d ever got round to mounting a big fuckin’ turbo and intercooler on a Austin Maxi the resultant explosion would probably have propelled you into another universe!
    To hell with scientists and their complex engineering, you just need to believe in Brexit harder.

  356. mike cassidy says:

    OK all you covid experts

    What mask should I choose for public transport?

    This one

    Or this one

  357. Dan says:

    More options to look at here before you commit to buy Mike.

  358. mike cassidy says:

    I know where the Rev isn’t going on holiday.

  359. Beaker says:

    @mike cassidy says:
    28 June, 2020 at 5:39 pm
    “OK all you covid experts
    What mask should I choose for public transport?”

    Try a gimp mask. You will be guaranteed social distancing.

  360. jfngw says:


    But remember to keep the zip closed for extra protection.

  361. jfngw says:

    @Stuart MacKay

    I’m not sure the WM Government would actually require item 2 on your list, it’s never bothered them in the past for a company to actually have the items they are purchasing.

  362. Gary45% says:

    The Vauxhall Brexit, it will break down and end in tears.
    Catchy ad.

  363. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s a four and a half minutes insight into the simplistic, illiberal, and authoritarian views that characterise Trump. He was twisting and inverting truth back in the ’80s, yet this is who BoJo and the Berxit clowns want us to trust as a trade partner. That’s right-wing populism for you, that is.

    Donald Trump interview 1980 (Rona Barrett) [Reelin’ In The Years Archives]

  364. Republicofscotland says:

    “Can anyone confirm? Could this be the reason for the spate of political prosecutions lately?”

    Capella@ 5.05pm.

    Could certainly be the reason that Craig Murray now faces being tried without a jury, Westminster influence is as the blog says pressuring the Scottish judiciary to do away with trial by jury, and it’s well known that the judge and prosecutor who Mr Murray faces in July are heavily politicised.

  365. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s some political psychology that might help shut the populist element up btl, who appear desperate to confuse and distort the debate, and to punt racial prejudice. Full text.

    “They’ve Put Nothing in the Pot!”: Brexit and the Key Psychological Motivations Behind Voting ‘Remain’ and ‘Leave’

    In June 2016, the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. Voting followed a general trend: disadvantaged areas of the United Kingdom tended to vote “leave,” and more affluent areas tended to vote “remain.” This project investigates the psychological variables underlying this overall trend by distinguishing four psychological motivations: the need for justice, threat reduction needs, need to belong, and the need for control.

    Participants were recruited from different areas across Greater Manchester (N = 158). A survey assessed voting preference, socioeconomic status, collective relative deprivation (CRD), perceptions of threat from immigration, European and British identification, sense of control in life, and relative gratification.

    Discriminant function analysis showed that leave voting was characterized by greater realistic threat, symbolic threat, CRD, and British identification. Remain voting was characterized by strong European identification. Findings highlight that a need for justice, threat-reduction needs, and identity needs were key predictors of voting behavior.

  366. Republicofscotland says:

    How the 77th brigades Rapid Response unit,(I’d imagine Joe and Dogbiscuit already have first hand experience on this) managed to get the UK governments “news” on say Syria, Libya, Russia etc, and more than likely negative information on Scottish independence to the top of Google search from 200th place.

    Those Chinthe boys and girls at Denison barracks do try their hardest for their boss Mr Reeves.

  367. robbo says:

    Col.Blimp IV says:
    28 June, 2020 at 2:50 pm
    Breeks@ 10:56

    What Scotland needs is a Michael Collins.Do we have one?

  368. Sinky says:

    Not watching TV tonight but did any of the UK wide news programmes mention the fact that Scotland has had NO Covid deaths in the past 3 days whereas England has had over 300.

    This should also be front page news in tommorrow’s newspapers.

    If not. Why not? And who is going to keep the unionists informed about how well the Scottish Government and NHS Scotland are doing.

  369. robbo says:

    A fecking breathing problem,wtf. Doesn’t sound like it ma dear.

  370. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brexit signifies Westminster does not feel constitutionally bound to respect the moral identity of those living in Scotland. This is an extemely precarious legal position Scotland finds itself in. British constitutional practice enables Westminster to do so, as British constitutional law is legal pseudo-science that is detached from the natural law.

    Parliamentary sovereignty is grounded in English legal culture, which lacks coherence and compatibility with international law. It also considers itself immutable to outside law. Subsequently, British constitutionalism is inadequate to the needs of pluralistic liberal constitutionalism.

    We need an opportunity to vote our way out of Dodge, before we are dragged out of the EU by the unchecked and illiberal nature of English Torydum.

    It’s NOT the economy, stupid: Brexit as a story of personal values
    The story of the referendum is usually told through geography: areas that had been left behind by globalisation voted to Leave. But this tells us only so much, writes Eric Kaufmann. Knowing where Leave voters live does not, in itself, explain why individuals chose to vote a certain way. Here, he demonstrates the importance of invisible differences between groups, and argues that it was primarily values that motivated voters, not economic inequality.

  371. CameronB Brodie says:

    Btw, I wasn’t joking that Tories tend to be bio-neurologically diminished in terms of their ability to deal with complexity, ethics, and empathy. There was scientific evidence pointing to brain architecture as being the source of political prejudice, when I was studying, which more recent research appears to have confirmed.

    Studying the Brain and Behavior in Biopsychology

  372. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT but here’s some more evidence that suggests Scots law is being deliberately sabotaged through legal skullduggery.

    Published online by Cambridge University Press: 17 May 2016
    Bioconstitutional Politics: Toward an Interdisciplinary Paradigm

    This article integrates theory and data culled from two largely unrelated subdisciplines – biopolitics and constitutional politics – to provide a “bioconstitutional” overview of power relationships among Homo sapiens.

    That overview features three aspects of constitutional configuration: (1) the biopsychological, evidence of which is drawn chiefly from neuroscience, primatology, biochemistry, and championship chess play; (2) the biosocial, evidence of which is drawn chiefly from gene-culture coevolutionary analysis, anthropology, social psychology, jurisprudence, and political science; (3) the biopolicy aspect, evidence of which is drawn exclusively from the American scene, most particularly Supreme Court decision making involving reproductive choice and governmental constraints on gene-cloning.

    Constitutionalism is conceived as a thought-action field theory, whose values are not only dynamic and functional, but also both politically influential and subject to political influence. Bioconstitutionalism supplies the requisite life science context for these patterns, and itself presents notable feedback features as humans acquire greater capacity to order their adaptive strategies through biological intervention programs.

  373. Joe says:


    It was me who linked the news that 77 brigade are active online to ‘clamp down on misinformation’. It was also me that linked the guys laying out the wider structure. Im the one whose been telling you whats happening for a long time now. Get a life you sad, thick, hysterical arsehole

  374. Liz g says:

    Capella @ 5.05
    I don’t know if it’s true or not,but I remember reading an article a while back that was along the same lines.
    It was something to do with dismantling the “Burghs” and how that was, according to the article, Westminster overstepping their power and crossing into affecting Scots Law,as opposed to legislating for it…

  375. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Careful cameron, your impaired mental process is showing

  376. Robert Louis says:

    It is great news that in Scotland we seem to be getting covid under control, but there is a real problem happening right now. As many others have been pointing out, it is pretty pointless clearing Scotland of covid, only to let folk from elsewhere merrily bring it back.

    I am not just talking about folk from England. I have good reports of tourists wandering the streets of edinburgh now. Does anybody seriously believe that they have travelled to Edinburgh, and sat indoors in quarantine for two weeks already, before hitting the streets? No. It also looks like from reports, that folk are using ‘air bnb’ type locations to stay somehow??

    Anyway, the Scotgov needs to get a grip of this AND especially the border with immediate effect. It is simply no good them sitting on their hands, saying they will do something IF cases start to rise. Covid is pretty much on the rise in England, and it is utter folly, not to prevent unnecessary travellers coming from there to holiday up in Scotland.

    Once England decides to take covid seriously, THEN they may come up here, but not before.

    This is real and it is happening right now. Daily, the number of tourists wandering around Edinburgh is starting to rise. Of course there are not very many, but it will happen.

    Everything that has been done to rid Scotland of covid will be undone, if this issue is not addressed as a priority. Not in a week or so, not in a few days time, but as a matter of some urgency, first thing, Monday.

  377. Dogbiscuit says:

    Republicofscotland. I’ve often advised people on here to go to UK Column News so I resent your idiotic accusations.Be careful however Capella and one of the sites Lizes think it’s a far right news site.

  378. Beaker says:

    Flipping through my music collection (ok scrolling), and came across this little gem, which might be appropriate for a certain personality next time they are on tv:

    “What’s that coming over the hill? Is it a monster?” by The Automatic. Great song but lyrics are apt.

  379. Robert Louis says:

    jfngw at 1104am,

    I have been ignoring Bella caledonia since 2014. They are as relevant to Scottish independence as David Cameron.

  380. Dr Jim says:

    Dominic Cummings is systematically replacing Whitehall civil servants with hand picked people who will work for Cummings in his new department of government

    How many times have folk been told what’s actually happening and still they say Nah it can’t be

  381. Dogbiscuit says:

    There can’t be much for tourists in Edinburgh except looking up at buildings and diving out of the way of my Fokker Triplane.

  382. Robert Louis says:

    Dr Jim at 0848pm,

    Indeed, democracy is being sytematically destroyed by the psycopathic ‘let them die’ Dominc Cummings.

    As you point out, people are watching it happen, and nobody who could do anything about it is prepared to stand up to this nonsense. It is a coup, no more, no less. Nobody in England seems to have even noticed.

  383. Dogbiscuit says:

    Dominic Cummings the new Reichsfuhrer.

  384. Dogbiscuit says:

    Herman Goering ,charming as he no doubt was, ran several Reichsministries.
    Why do politicians only learn how to do nasty stuff from history?
    Matt Hancock is a highly dangerous person .
    All Tories of all parties better realise many of us people human beings will resist your fascism.
    Yes Fascist does seem an overused word .That would be because we are under a fascist system of Government.
    Intelligent people are given to rationalising their situation when the unthinkable happens.
    Tomorrow the world will be on fire.

  385. Dogbiscuit says:

    jfngw you really don’t want to face the reality of our situation. Are you happy to live a restricted form of life blackmailed by the Government into taking an untested vaccine in order to get back some of the freedom that’s been taken from you? If you are then perhaps you should pipe down a bit on Independence because you don’t sound ready for it.

  386. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s a rather impassioned claim to liberal concerns, though I’m not sure it is supported by previous comments.

    Anyhoo, ever wondered why some believe Scots law must be purged of a legal respect for biology? Remember, Scots law hasn’t gotten around to codifying legal protection for the economic, social, and cultural rights of individuals.

    IMHO, it appears that the SNP have been colonised by those determined to prevent individuals living in Scotland, from being able to defend their constitutional/human rights. Starting with biological women, as they are more legally vulnerable than men, who enjoy a dominant and secure social position. As does England in an apparently equal partnership. Now there’s a coincidence.

    Social Justice and the Politics of Recognition

  387. Beaker says:

    @Dr Jim says:
    28 June, 2020 at 8:48 pm
    “Dominic Cummings is systematically replacing Whitehall civil servants with hand picked people who will work for Cummings in his new department of government”

    Just wait till he pisses off the PCS union.

  388. jfngw says:


    Is there a vaccine, nobodies offered it to me yet. You’re correct I’ve been blackmailed and still not been offered the vaccine. That’s independence done for me then, thank you for opening my eyes.

  389. jfngw says:

    @Robert Louis

    Let me clarify, I wasn’t reading Bella, I haven’t visited the site for a long time and even when I did I don’t think I managed to finish an article and stay awake. Came across his tweet to someone else when browsing people I watch on twitter.

  390. Sinky says:

    BBC and UK gov who are only responsible for health in England keep refusing to mention the number of deaths in ENGLAND and keep referring to UK in order to diguise how well Scotland is doing

  391. After Belgium, England has the highest covid deaths by percent of population in the world,

    in the world,the whole fricken world,

    England is one of the richest countries in the world, how has it allowed this to happen,

    anywhere else this would be seen as a national catastrophe with calls for Government to be abolished and ministers to be charged and jailed,

    yer in Englandshire all they care adout is getting to the pub and the fitba,and having a laugh with Boris,

    we need to close the border to England or we will see our country decimated by covid.

  392. Gary45% says:

    Scot Finlayson@10.27
    Watch out, you can’t say anything about the colonial masters, they get quite touchy.
    Agree with most of the post apart from England being one of he richest countries in the world, they are poor without Scotland.

    Heard a beauty today, punter walks into a restaurant way north of the central belt.
    Said restaurant serving coffee etc to try and stay open, punter says “its really nice up here” to employee, who replies “where are you from?” Oh I’m up from Sheffield. Employee tells the person to GTF, or words to that effect.
    Now some trolls will think this is anti English, if they do? they can GTF.
    Close the borders, after all WM said they would do that if Scotland voted yes in 2014. If its good enough for them, its good enough for Scotland.

  393. Capella says:

    @ Liz g 8.30 – thx for comment. The whole business of the Crown Estates and Crown Office is a mystery. Yet another vital arm of the state beyond democratic control.

    I’ve been watching the Michael Moore film Planet of the Humans recommended by ahundredthidiot. It’s possibly the most depressing film I’ve ever seen.
    Going to sleep on it. 🙂

  394. Robert graham says:

    Is there a close the border petition up and running if not why not, where is the petition guy ? Come on get yer arse in gear

  395. jfngw says:

    I see Ian Blackford has fire in his belly again (in twitterland anyway) although it’s more likely to be the effects of a curry rather than any plan to drive forward independence.

  396. robertknight says:


    Perhaps Mr Blackford should undo the buttons on his waistcoat and wash the wafer-thin mint down with some Gaviscon.

  397. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. Brexit. This is quite an accessible and reasonable view, though Britain is really one nation, apparently. Well that’s me telt. Thus a nation is written out of history by populist, authoritarian, English nationalism, and a tradition of legal exceptionalism.

    Brexit and the psychology of identity
    Brexit has been dragging on for two years but the problems seem more intractable than ever, the differences more irreconcilable and the chance of a coherent proposal from the government even less likely. Politicians accuse each other of indulging in identity politics, but what do they mean?

    It is impossible to understand Brexit without understanding the psychology of identity, because the problem the UK faces is a division of identity. We no longer agree who we are; where we have come from, what we stand for, what it means to be one of us, what we’re capable of, and most profoundly, what makes us “us” – what makes the British different. Instead of agreement, there are at least two polarised versions of what it is to be British and without an understanding of the psychology of identity, reconciliation will be impossible….

  398. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Robert graham at 11:12 pm.

    You typed,
    “Is there a close the border petition up and running if not why not, where is the petition guy ? Come on get yer arse in gear”

  399. mike cassidy says:


    Planet of the Humans: Reviewing the Film and its Reviews

  400. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’d suggest certain documentary producers would do well to learn themselves some philosophy of science and stuff, before making somewhat dubious claims.

    Full text.

    Critical Realism: A Common Sense Philosophy for Environmental Education?

    Dr Malcolm Plant

    London South Bank University (Formerly at Nottingham Trent University)

    Paper presented at the 26th ATEE (Association for Teacher Education in Europe) Conference, Stockholm 27 August- 1 September 2001

    By and large, modern societies take it for granted that nature, or “the environment”, is apart from society. However, this separation promotes the view that the environment should be managed for profit or pleasure, or that it exists in exotic or wild places experienced only as a fantasy world. As a result, environmental problems are seen to arise “out there” instead of inside our heads, which conceals what was obvious to Marx that people live in their relationship to a real nature.

    That this relationship is dialectical(1) is the theme of this paper and leads me to examine critical realism as a philosophical basis for environmental education. Critical realism holds that reality can be apprehended by tracing the origins of experience through to the level of events, and then to underlying structures and processes.

    I show that this stratification of reality avoids the conceptual breaks in thinking associated with the narrowly calculative rationality of positivism that treats knowledge as simply the accumulation of sense-experiences, while recognising the limitations of strong forms of constructivism that assume that reality is simply dependent on our cognitive choices.

    Finally, I conclude by giving an example of how my attempts to develop a dialectical relationship with my students on a distance education Masters course in Environmental Education enables us to facilitate our mutual praxis as environmental educators based on a stratified view of environmental and educational knowledge.

  401. CameronB Brodie says:

    I do accept there is little hope in a sustainable future, without sufficient political commitment. English Torydum lacks such commitment, to the point of rejecting the precautionary principle and the concept of environmental justice (see Brexit and covid-19).

    Critical realism and political ecology

    Why a realist political ecology?
    Much discussion of critical realism and environmental issues has focused on philosophical debates concerning the dichotomies of nature/ society, people/ animals, or women/ men (e.g. Benton, this volume; Jackson, 1997). Yet in addition, critical realist arguments are also relevant to debates concerning environmental degradation and the management of ecological resources.

    The aim of critical realist research on environmental degradation is to highlight how scientific explanations of environmental change provide only partial insights into complex biophysical processes, and that existing models of explanation reflect the agendas of the societies that created them. Such explanations are problematic as they may only address certain aspects of biophysical change.

    Moreover, they may not represent the interests of social groups not included in the science process, particularly in developing countries.Academic work focusing on the interface between politics and environmental degradation has often been labeled ‘political ecology’ (e.g. Blaikie, 1985).1

    Yet some recent writings on political ecology raise important questions from the perspective of critical realism. On one hand, there is a body of work that focuses on the environmental activism associated with struggles over resources and the formation of the state (e.g. Bryant and Bailey, 1997). Such work presents a valuable analysis of grassroots resistance and non-governmental organizations as counter points to repressive state policies and industrial activity.

    But this work may also be criticized for uncritically accepting existing definitions of environmental degradation derived from positivistic natural science without acknowledging how such terms are constructed. Indeed, much recent research within developing countries has indicated that many processes commonly thought to be degrading, such as soil erosion and deforestation, may not always threaten livelihoods or present long-term damage to ecosystems as sometimes thought….

  402. twathater says:

    If anyone wants to be even more depressed just pop over to Barrheadboys blog and listen to a Scottish Prism with Tom Arthur SNP MSP and barrhead boy Roddy , Arthur’s obfuscation and avoiding answering questions is an example of political speak or gobbledygook

  403. Sensibledave says:

    CBB 7.42

    You wrote: “ Btw, I wasn’t joking that Tories tend to be bio-neurologically diminished in terms of their ability to deal with complexity, ethics, and empathy.”

    This is good stuff CBB.

    Could you produce a table for us showing all of this, broken down by race, religion, country of origin. Etc. Then we can really get into the absolute worst type of bigotry.

  404. Breeks says:

    twathater says:
    29 June, 2020 at 2:33 am

    …. Arthur’s obfuscation and avoiding answering questions is an example of political speak or gobbledygook..

    Prophetic slip of the tongue… a good “vest”, … as in Toom Tabard.

    How utterly bleak that his entire focus is on making the Union and devolution work, deflecting criticism and trying to diffuse anger. These are the cretins who are leading Scotland into perpetual servitude.

    You can just imagine the Scottish Lords selling Scotland down the river in 1707, beginning to notice there was a “bit of a mob” forming outside… Same arrogance. Same indifference. Same lack of self awareness. Same patronising shite.

    Suddenly I know why the mob wanted them lynched.

  405. CameronB Brodie says:

    You need to remember I’m simply reporting science. 😉

    Differences in negativity bias underlie variations in political ideology

  406. CameronB Brodie says:

    It appears that if dave is unaware of a thing, it is not possible or it doesn’t exist, which suggest dave is a bit of a bigot. Well, he’s a Toryboy.

    Empathy, justice, and moral behavior

    Empathy shapes the landscape of our social lives. It motivates prosocial and caregiving behaviors, plays a role in inhibiting aggression, and facilitates cooperation between members of a similar social group. Thus, empathy is often conceived as a driving motivation of moral behavior and justice, and as such, everyone would think that it should be cultivated.

    However, the relationships between empathy, morality, and justice are complex. We begin by explaining what the notion of empathy encompasses and then argue how sensitivity to others’ needs has evolved in the context of parental care and group living. Next, we examine the multiple physiological, hormonal, and neural systems supporting empathy and its functions. One troubling but important corollary of this neuro-evolutionary model is that empathy produces social preferences that can conflict with fairness and justice. An understanding of the factors that mold our emotional response and caring motivation for others helps provide organizational principles and ultimately guides decision-making in medical ethics.

    empathy, morality, fairness, group biases, decision-making, justice, social neuroscience

  407. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT but this might interest some.

    Not Hardwired: The Complex Neurobiology of Sex Differences in Violence

    Behavior is the product of a brain shaped by a dynamic interaction between genetic and environmental factors. This neuroplasticity facilitates adaptation but can also lead to behavioral pathology when individuals with inherent vulnerabilities are exposed to dysfunctional environments, particularly early in life. Differences in the frequency and intensity of violent behavior in men and women may reflect underlying differences in brain structure, function, or connectivity that result from such interactions.

    This perspective provides a brief overview of research on sex differences in the neural circuitry mediating emotion, stress responses, and a specific gene-environment interaction, all of which may contribute to sex differences in violence.

  408. Sensibledave says:

    CBB 9.13

    …. The Na**s were just doing science when they experimented on Jews.

    Just stop it.

  409. CameronB Brodie says:

    If there is one thing pretty much guaranteed to trigger me, it’s folk trying to deny science in order to impose their narrow perception of reality.

    86 The Cognitive Neuroscience of Moral
    Judgment and Decision Making

  410. Sensibledave says:


    You wrote “If there is one thing pretty much guaranteed to trigger me, it’s folk trying to deny science in order to impose their narrow perception of reality.”

    … and, if anything is guaranteed to trigger me then it is pseudos t**ts looking for ways to create more and more division. You are now not content with demonising people on the basis of the country of their birth, you now seek to argue that as a group, their actual brains are somehow inferior too.

    You are a dispicable and very dangerous and biggoted individual of the absolute worst type.

  411. CameronB Brodie says:

    “You are a dispicable and very dangerous and biggoted individual of the absolute worst type.”

    No dave, that’s your comprehension and interpretation of reality, which we already know is culturally-bound and pants. Unlike yourself, I have insight into, and understand of, the human condition and its’ significance. This enables me to defend my human rights from the right-wing authoritarianism of English Torydum and British nationalism.

    Full text.

    Review of Philosophy and Psychology volume 11, pages 105–136(2020)
    Dual Process Theories in Behavioral Economics and Neuroeconomics: a Critical Review

    Despite their popularity, dual process accounts of human reasoning and decision-making have come under intense scrutiny in recent years. Cognitive scientists and philosophers alike have come to question the theoretical foundations of the ‘standard view’ of dual process theory and have challenged the validity and relevance of evidence in support of it.

    Moreover, attempts to modify and refine dual process theory in light of these challenges have generated additional concerns about its applicability and refutability as a scientific theory. With these concerns in mind, this paper provides a critical review of dual process theory in economics, focusing on its role as a psychological framework for decision modeling in behavioral economics and neuroeconomics.

    I argue that the influx of criticisms against dual process theory challenge the descriptive accuracy of dualistic decision models in economics. In fact, the case can be made that the popularity of dual process theory in economics has less to do with the empirical success of dualistic decision models, and more to do with the convenience that the dual process narrative provides economists looking to explain-away decision anomalies.

    This leaves behavioral economists and neuroeconomists with something of a dilemma: either they stick to their purported ambitions to give a realistic description of human decision-making and give up the narrative, or they revise and restate their scientific ambitions.

  412. mike cassidy says:

    Looks like the transactivists are just going to label any opposition within the SNP as transphobic

    And claim the party has a problem with internal transphobia.

  413. Capella says:

    mike cassidy 12:24 am – thx for that review. It is just as pessimistic as the film, but does give a very fair account of what the film is saying.
    I had heard that the film had its critics. But there is no getting round the fact that we can’t have permanent growth and a viable planet.
    IMO growth is promoted as a way of never having to share out resources equitably. “There’s enough for everyone’s need but not for everyone’s greed” to quote Ghandi.

    Planet of the Humans: Reviewing the Film and its Reviews

  414. Sensibledave says:


    I don’t give a fig about some paper that you believe gives you the right to judge people on the basis of their country of birth, or because some other nutter that you bow to has written some long words that sufggest their brains are inferrior.

    Go f**k yourself.

  415. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Transphobia will be used by the SNPs Woke Wing to silence dissent and maintain their grip on power in the same way the Blairites weaponised the term Anti-Semantism to get rid of Corbyn @mike cassidy says at 11:07 am

  416. CameronB Brodie says:

    @SNP Management
    Gender-identity is only tangentially related to biological sex, which can not physically be changed. However, the proposed GRA reforms would legally demote biological women from being equal but different to biological males, to being the same but inferior to males, who would be able to claim entry to a sex-class that is not theirs.

    It is not logical to transform Scots law so as it conforms with a clinical disorder, rather than conforming with the experience of the general public.

    Full text.

    Theory/New Concepts, Cognition and Behavior
    A New Theory of Gender Dysphoria Incorporating the Distress, Social Behavioral, and Body-Ownership Networks

  417. CameronB Brodie says:

    Have I hurt your feelings Toryboy?

    Full text.

    Brain, Volume 135, Issue 7, July 2012, Pages 2006–2021
    Functional and clinical neuroanatomy of morality

  418. mike cassidy says:

    This article about ‘Woke Capitalism’ is well worth reading.

    And in the context of the Tory abandonment of the GRA agenda, the final paragraph is a beaut.

  419. CameronB Brodie says:

    @SNP Management
    The biological difference between the sexes means that men and women perceive the world in subtly different ways, which influence world-view, judgement and decision making. There are three models of human judgement, logic, psychology and phenomenology. The GRA proposals would restrict the legal understanding of the human condition to the purely psychological, which is neither logical or sensitive to the human condition.

    Full text.

    The Foundation of Cognitive Semiotics in the Phenomenology of Signs and Meanings

  420. CameronB Brodie says:

    As that last one was a bit blurred.

    Biosemiotics volume 11, pages 323–330 (2018)
    Phenomenology and Biosemiotics

  421. mike cassidy says:

    And so it begins.

    Mhairi Black challenges Nicola Sturgeon over ‘transphobia in the SNP

  422. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Mhairi Black
    What about the misogyny of gender-ideology, which perpetuates sexist stereotypes?

    Meaning, Mind and Communication

    Explorations in Cognitive Semiotics
    Chapter 4. Agency in Biosemiotics and Enactivism

    1. Introduction: what is an agent?
    Although there is currently no consensus in the biosemiotic community on what constitutes a semiotic agent, i.e. an agent in the context of semiosis (the action of signs), most respondents to a recent survey agree that core attributes of an agent include goal-directedness, self-governed activity, processing of semiosis and choice of action, with these features being vital for the functioning of the living system in question (Tønnessen 2015).1

    In this chapter I seek to compare the biosemiotic understanding(s) of agency with the enactive understanding(s) of agency. Despite considerable overlap in views and outlook, there are in some cases sharp differences in how agency is understood in biosemiotics and enactivism (e.g. Varela et al. 1991). Mapping the differences in outlook and understanding is complicated indeed, given the diversity of views in both camps.

    Before we get into any intricacies, however, we should first ask: Why is it of interest to compare enactivism and biosemiotics, with regard to their respective notions of agency? And what does this have to do with cognitive semiotics? A partial answer to the first question is found in the fact that the phenomenon of agency is without doubt central to both enactivism and biosemiotics, and their respective perspectives on the nature of life. This is outlined below. But even if it makes sense to compare enactivism and….

  423. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Mhairi Black
    The proposed GRA reforms are misguided, dangerous, and illiberal. Please fill your boots.

    A neurocognitive model of perceptual decision-making on emotional signals

  424. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Mhairi Black
    I’m begging you to fill your boots.

    Semiotics Inside-Out and/or Outside-In. How to Understand Everything and (with Luck) Influence People

  425. Sensibledave says:

    CBB 11:48 am

    You wrote “Have I hurt your feelings Toryboy?”

    No sunshine, all you have done is confirm to me and anyone else that might read your BS, that you really are a very nasty piece of work. Bye.

  426. CameronB Brodie says:

    You might think that dave, but you lack insight and appear unwilling to educate yourself. That’s not particularly sensible, but then you support a party that brought us Brexit and a herd-immunity response to an unknown and deadly pathogen.


    The article investigates the Husserl-Heidegger relationship, beyond their historical contributions to both phenomenology and hermeneutics as new methods in philosophy, by articulating ontology and subjectivity through a semantic, linguistic paradigm, so as to delineate the task of a phenomenology of justice.

    KEY WORDS – Hermeneutics. Language. Ontology. Phenomenology. Subjectivity. Theory of justice.

  427. Sensibledave says:


    … no CBB , I don’t “think” it … I know it.

    I know it because you keep writing it. You keep writing r****t shit and now you write about eugenics without a shred of embarrassment. Bye

  428. CameronB Brodie says:

    No dave, you are misrepresenting me again, either through ignorance or intent. I’m pointing to the bio-neurological foundations of human experience. You support the party that brought us Brexit, which can ethically be described as eugenics, as it forces a political morality on Scotland. The responce to covid-19 might also qualify.

    You need to remember dave, I’m simply reporting science and stuff.

    Full text.

    A phenomenological hermeneutical method for researching lived experience

  429. CameronB Brodie says:

    Just so there is absolutely no misunderstanding, I am arguing from an ethically informed position that is opposed to eugenics. Full text.

    A Critical Overview of Interpretative Phenomenological Analysis: A Contemporary Qualitative Research Approach

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