What is known as parklife
We’ve just been out for our evening constitutional in the relatively cool night air (Bath sweltered at an oppressive 30C today and Bear Patrol was pretty gruelling), and we thought readers might be interested in what we saw.
The city has observed lockdown with great diligence, as we’ve previously documented, and to be honest we’re not sufficiently familiar with the latest rules to say it wasn’t still doing so tonight. But a nearby park, around 9.30pm, was a disconcerting scene.
About half-a-dozen cops and pretend-o-cops can be seen circulating amongst the crowd, and they were having extended conversations with various groups, but to no visible effect – we observed the scene for about 20 minutes and nobody got up and left, and we weren’t close enough to overhear what was being said.
But it seems abundantly clear to us that England’s approach to the coronavirus pandemic has played out like this:
1. The UK government’s first instinct, more or less openly stated, was to basically do nothing, let the virus run wild and allow “herd immunity” to develop – writing off the deaths that would result, mainly among the elderly, as a price worth paying to avoid major economic damage.
2. Scientists warned that this would overwhelm the NHS and lead to hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths, so a lockdown policy was introduced to “flatten the curve”, although too late to avoid thousands of probably needless casualties.
3. Despite the delay, the NHS was NOT overwhelmed. A fleet of “Nightingale” hospitals were hastily constructed but as far as we know barely saw a single patient. Existing capacity was able to cope, albeit at a stretch and at a significant human cost. The curve was flattened and while daily deaths in England are still in triple figures, new cases are far lower than when lockdown came in.
4. The government has therefore basically concluded that it can revert to its original policy of herd immunity. Restrictions can be lifted as quickly as is plausibly decent, infections will rise again, but nothing need be done unless and until they exceed the previous level. The expensive furlough schemes can be dropped and “business as usual” can be resumed as far as possible, largely at the expense of the poor.
(The Tory administration has already survived the world’s worst per-capita death rates AND Dominic Cumming’s round-Britain trip, so probably feels it can ride out anything else that might foreseeably happen.)
Scotland has belatedly begun to meaningfully diverge from English policy, but since London is refusing to maintain the furlough schemes for the other three UK nations it remains to be seen how long that divergence can be sustained. People can’t survive without income.
If we were you, readers, we’d make sure we had plenty loo roll in now.
Scotland is no better.
I’m already stocking up a little every shop. It’s not going to be pretty when it happens.
I think Nicola has moved to reopen Scotland because of England’s attitude. She knows that WM will effectively force Scotland into line by cutting funding.
Then the SG will be left to pick up the mess when wave two begins. The border is still open while England suffers 170 deaths a day. When the English come over the border to swamp the highlands. All Scotland’s work will be instantly undone.
It’s so obvious to everyone!
Lenny – I would agree that at first, Scotland made a lot of mistakes. Some were linked to the financial problems of needing UK Government support to enable a lockdown, but plenty were down to Scottish Government decisions. Now though, it’s absolutely inarguable that Scotland is in a better position. New cases and deaths are way lower than in England, and the attitude of the FM is going to help the lifting of lockdown to stay orderly and keep people doing the right things.
Shocking. All those people not trusting what governments say. Apparently, this is no joke, throat swabs are not very good tests and its recommended to use a rectal swab for a test. Thats a bit more fitting. Mind your mask now.
The Tory donors were always going to get Boris by the short’n’curlies and force him into easing lockdown and getting things back to ‘Business as usual’ quicker than the science gurus would have liked. Too many seeing their net worth heading south due to their drones being kept tucked up in their hives instead of boosting profits.
No such pressure on administrations in Wales, Scotland and Norniron – except from those who hold the purse-strings in Westmonster of course. He who pays the piper…
Westminster said ‘Stay Alert’. Two weeks later, Scotland was told to ‘Stay Vigilant’. Is there a difference there that I’m missing?
Just a couple of days ago, Westminster announced their relaxation of the lockdown. Scotland is doing the exact same things, only a week later!
Mrs. Murrell openly admitted that Scotland had been following in lockstep with the UK government, which means that if the UK government has had a bad crisis, then Scotland has too.
It’s all smoke and mirrors with Mrs. Murrell.
Finally, the reason Scotland has lower casualty rates than England is simply down to population! 6 million people in Scotland will obviously produce lower numbers than a country with 60 million people! I bet if it’s boiled down to percentages and statistics, there’ll be near enough parity between Scotland and England.
Scotland has borrowing powers. It could borrow the money to extend the furlough scheme itself and in the same instance, to behave and to be SEEN to behave in an autonomous manner which would help independence no end but like taking control of ‘devolved’ health and making its own decisions, it’s not likely to happen. It’ll be a return to ‘bleat, bleat, bleat, Westminster bad’ and all this.
But what else do you expect when you have a social worker come regional administrator ‘leading’ a country?
They’re Tories ffs.
Expect the worst, you’ll not be far wrong.
All about the ‘optics’. An awful Americanism.
there is a long way to go yet before we know what will happen in scotland.
Furlough money will be paid to employers for the period up to 30/6/2020 on 30/6/2020
So monthly paid people will get a months pay on 30/6/2020 for the period 1/6/2020 to 30/6/2020
This will have to last them a month
Which is normal
Employers cannot claim july furlough in advance they can only claim it from 1/7/2020
But the Furlough scheme runs until 31/10/2020
Schools returning to normal is a big issue because if schools stay off and parents return to work childminding costs arise
Coordination is required which means scottish govt health concerns have to team up with employers profit concerns which have to team up with parents
It will work out
Common sense will become ….common
The English are culturally more individualistic and less supportive of social cooperation than Scots, that’s why Scotland has to put up with the ethical impoverishment of English Torydum. There are more of them than us, and English Torydum thinks it owns Scotland. It also hates the rule-of-law on an ideological level, hence the pathological urge to de-regulate the shit out of the public sphere.
Scotland needs an escape route from the moral bankruptcy of British nationalism, a.k.a. English Torydum. It is our moral duty to tell Westminster to get tae.
https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/8/2357/pdf
Once more, predictably, we’re witnessing the true effects of dependency and what it means to be but a region in Westminster’s reckoning of things in general. No debate, no analysis, nothing. Take it or leave it. It’ll be interesting to see for how long the 2 metre distancing rule survives. To paraphrase: Devolved governments are but committees to manage the affairs of their political bosses.
Listening to Johnson talk about Scotland and Scots, he makes us out to be some kind of lowlife.
He makes you feel like a beggar.
He makes you feel worthless.
And useless pricks like Wishart and Blackford do nothing to defend our rights.
The whole fuckin lot of them sicken me to the core.
I would gladly be the one who brought the walls of Westminster tumbling down, with that bastard Johnson and Co locked inside.
Joe @ 11.15
OT… Sorry Rev but this is a slippery bugger 🙂
While we’re aw considered that Joe… How’s they “black” crime numbers and Glasgow crime numbers looking tae ye noo?
Nip over to the other thread if you’ve worked out an answer!
Facts are chiels that winna ding.
Cases and deaths per million shows England has three times the death rate of Scotland.
Simple arithmetic Mist001.
Wishart was getting interviewed today on Sky and he talked in the future tense.
Saying that listening to Johnson and Stammer until 2024 will be a total turn off for the voters.
Wishart has no intention of fighting for Scottish Independence any time soon ladies and gentlemen.
He is a self serving little Britnat.
Ruth Davidson had more desire for Independence than Wishart.
Wishart even applied for the job as Speaker of the House of Commons.
Can we look over the reasons behind the Westminster Tories mismanagement of the Covid Virus.
1, The Cygnus Exercise in 2016 showed the Tories that the NHS had no chance
Of coping with the next virus epidemic which will obviously come.
The report is hidden to mask the Tory choice of money before lives.
2, The Tories had months of warnings about the Virus from China and yet again closer to home
With devastation across Italy and Spain but this was ignored.
3, Major events still allowed to take place with Tory blessing to send 250,000 people to Cheltenham
Races, 10,000 Spanish Fans to play in Liverpool and a variety of big concerts.
4, Boris doesn’t bother to attend 5 Emergency COBRA meetings as likes his weekends of during the
Looming crisis.
5, Mat Hancock lies day after day, week after week and month after month about the level of PPE
kit in storage. Not enough, not the right kind and not able to distribute what is available.
6, Tory Ministers repeatedly Forget to reply to EU offers to share PPE kit with the UK.
7, Owner of UK based G -Tech works on his own initiative and in consultation with NHS Medics to produce Much needed Ventilators.
Tories cancel the order in hope of getting Tory Party Funder James Dyson to produce Ventilators
From his factory in Singapore.
8, The Tories reject hundreds of offers from UK manufacturers to make PPE kit as they say that want
Larger manufacturers to produce in larger numbers however NHS staff continue to be put in danger and many die as larger manufacturing numbers never materialise.
9, Tories absurdly drop the category of this killer virus, the only ones on the planet to do so, in order
To try and justify using less PPE kit. Medical staff further endangered and more die as a result.
10, As PPE kit still short a massive order is placed with Turkey.
Not only does it repeatedly fail to materialise but it’s sub standard when it does.
11, Medical staff screening for testing kits but the Tories don’t have them and if they did they don’t have capacity to process them.
12, Tory Michael Gove thinks his daughter might have the virus so she takes priority over Doctors
and Nurses. Prince Charles gets priority too so Westminster can shove their we are all equal and in it together.
13, Unelected Dominique Cummings concocts a complete fairy tale about breaking all the rules of Lockdown and refuses to apologise or resign as was demanded of others.
14, Cummings not only put the public in danger but claimed that he travelled again while uncertain if
His eye sight was adequate to do so.
Not only outing the public in danger but his wife and child.
15, Gove appears on LBC to try and back up Cummings lie by suggesting he too drive to test his ability to see rather than use opticians like normal people?
16, Boris tells the country to keep your distance and not shake hands.
Boris goes to a Live Civid ward and shakes hands with patients and medical staff??
17, Millions spent on overflow Nightingale Hospital which where fully kited out other than
They had no medical staff or PPE kit to support patients.
18, Death stats reveal ethnic minorities are far more likely to die with the virus but no steps
Taken by the Tories as more members of the medical profession die.
19, Tories say face masks for the public have no benefit and now they say they do?
20, Scientific advisors saying whatever Boris tells them to say the virus doesn’t live on paper such as
Mail, then it does?
21, Tories award massive non disclosure contracts with 89% to companies who support payments to the party.
22, Tories refuse to be interviewed by UK media who want to confront their
Dire performance being the 2nd worst nation out of hundreds on this planet
Dealing with the virus.
23, Tories say they are 100% focused on beating the virus but still have
Teams working on Brexit?
24, Numbers of PPE kit exaggerated by the Tories by counting a pair of gloves as 2 pieces of kit.
25, Tories miss testing target so count kits put in the post as being tested ?
25, Tories send out invoices for £1,200 to foreigners working in the NHS, who are risking their lives,
If they wish to stay in the job for a 3 year extension.
26, Boris has a car crash interview where no one could understand his latest lockdown rules.
27, UK leaves borders open and those with Covid from any hit spot area can enter without checks?
28, Having started out with the idea of using herd immunity and having to say a final fair well to family and friends which changed on public outcry, Boris is going for it again by easing lockdown
restrictions while hundreds die each day and spikes abound in other countries who have also eased up.
29, World class tracing App promised by the 1st June.
Contract worth millions placed with Cumming’s relative.
The App sees two thirds of those tested positive are not
Being contacted as the App is inadequate.
30, UK expected a max of 20,000 deaths and now we see 43,000 deaths
Declared but the Excess Deaths not counted there would suggest 60,000 deaths so far.
31, Germany has a much larger population than the UK but you are 5 times more
Likely to die with the Covid Virus if you live in the UK.
As Wings know Norway has many things in common with Scotland
Other than no one stole their oil revenues had had 248 Covid deaths
Having been wealthy and well prepared.
Scotland has had more than 10 times the Covid Deaths in our Hospitals only?
See what can be done when independent and in control of your own destiny!
I cannot understand why the Scottish Government don’t say what they want to do loudly in plain language,and demand that Westminster get on board with it!
Tell all of Scotland,as your government, here is what we recommend, and we expect Westminster to do what ever it takes to ensure our tax returns are made available to deal with the virus in the way * Scotland * requires.
Why are we *asking* for a furlough extension?
Why are we not telling them “here is what we need”?
Why is our First Minister saying she won’t criticise how other parts of the UK respond but won’t demand that the UK treasury respond to Scotland’s requirements?
We elected Holyrood to manage our affairs,they should set out the tax return needed to do so….and create merry he’ll if it’s refused!
We’re no beggers at the gate here…Westminster should be made to pay up or try to explain the reason why not!!!
‘it remains to be seen how long that divergence can be sustained.’
11 days.
Regards hair salons which are among the second in line re exposure/transmission.
4th July England,15th Scotland.
On a positive vein,the new strains of the virus may not be as virulent.
Or they may be more so.
No one knows.
Not Boris,not Nicola,and certainly no one on here.
You know what I find particularly annoying?
Yep, I can understand peeps typing their potential comments in an app offline, then pasting into the comments box.
So far, so good.
But…
Can yooz not check the preview box below the comment box to see how it’s gonna appear?
It’s so annoying when you’re reading something, when a sentence starts a new line halfway through the sentence and even CAPITALISES the continuation!
Please, don’t copy/paste from microsloth word – use a simple text app to put together your comments. Don’t use WORD!
Nice video Stuart.
Was a stunning balmy night in Glasgow too, with Arcturus shining bright out to the west in the bright night sky.
@ LizG 12.48am hear, hear Liz but unfortunately that would mean taking a stand , something which NS will not do
You have said oftentimes on here that 1 of the reasons you want indy is to get OUR govt within SLAPPING distance and I agree with you wholeheartedly , but we HAVE that just now and they are not listening never mind acting
I have said repeatedly that WE the people elected the SNP and NS as OUR govt to protect and care for the people of Scotland, if NS believes that we need to ease lockdown slower than our neighbours , to remain safe and secure whilst still paying furloughed staff then she HAS to CONFRONT bozo and DEMAND the finances be made available , and if bozo REFUSES , NS should announce to the Scottish people that bozo is willfully endangering Scots lives through REFUSING those finances
Twathater @ 2.53
At the risk of becoming a “mutual admiration society”
Hear Hear right back at ye 🙂
We can do nothing about Westminster,we never could,but we can,and we should,be askin …
Holyrood where are ye?
Westminster might have nae votes to loose ….but you do!
Don’t morph into an imitation of Labour,because,up with that we will not put.
Well said @ Liz g and twathater.
In England they are still building Nightingale Hospital. One was completed in Northampton the other week and another has just been commenced in an old Homebase store in Exeter.
Since COVID 19 is a disease that kills predominately the over sixties and the health compromised the continued Nightingale hospital building with the concomitant removal of distancing restrictions tells you clearly that the Government expect another wave.
The decision has therefore I think been made to reopen the economy and sacrifice the elderly. How bad it will be, and how many of the old fuckers will perish who knows. A rotten death amongst the masses was never a concern for the Tory elites. They’ll just have to take it on the chin.
The words from Wilfred Owen are I think poignant when he described.. “ Bent double like old beggars under sacks….guttering, choking drowning….hanging face like a devil sick of sin…..the blood come gurgling from the froth corrupted lungs……..a grim picture of people, the wrecks of people taking it on the chin becomes apparent.
Owen may have been describing a First World War gassing but is it really that much different from choking to death with Coronavirus and multiple organ failure.
Ah well Beasts of England, suck it up, take it on the chin………” dulce et decorum est in pro patria mori “
SCOTLAND’S Finance Secretary Kate Forbes has formally requested new powers including the ability to borrow up to £500 million this year to help meet “the significant economic and fiscal… http://www.thenational.scot/news/18539827.kate-forbes-requests-new-financial-powers-deal-virus-crisis/?ref=appshr
Capella, thanks for your link to today’s National and from which I extract a quote from Kate Forbes.
“Given the nature and scale of this crisis, and the economic impact it is having, I believe there is a strong case for temporary additional powers and flexibilities beyond those currently set out in the Fiscal Framework, alongside continued discussions on establishing clear and certain levels of consequential Covid-19 funding,” she told Barclay in the letter.
So that’s it then. Can we have some TEMPORARY additional powers. I mean how about some TEMPORARY independence. Nothing to much now. A measly £500 million. whilst on Tuesday the Governor General breezed on stage with Benny the Banker saying that Scotland needed £6 billion of economic stimulus to tackle the recession.
Well done Kate, you certainly do petty. Temporary additional powers, snivel, snivel, snivel.
Or am I missing something?
Willie there more than one way to skin a cat. By asking for temporary powers Kate Forces is highlighting the failure of devolution to those undecided about independence.
BBC still milking hospital issues for what they are worth for 4th day. Any failings down to local health board not down Health Secretary.
Scotland In Union Pennington still getting it wrong on 2 meter rule which is up to 10 times more effective than one meter. That is scientific not political.
We need the border closed. We have 10 times less cases than England per head of Population.
We need to take fiscal borrowing powers.
Both of these will help get us clean of this virus like Norway and New Zealand.
@ Willie – OK, here’s Joanna Cherry also in today’s National
THE fourth anniversary of the 2016 Brexit referendum passed earlier this week, with little fanfare. Even the most zealous Tories seemed reluctant to celebrate, given the double whammy coming at the… http://www.thenational.scot/news/18539804.brexit-process-clearly-illustrated-limits-devolution/?ref=appshr
I’m not sure what the problem is. If all those spaced couples and groups and are from the same household/bubble then they are sitting spaced at least 2m apart per group. I expect the ‘officials’ were just confirming that the members of the larger groups where not more than one household/bubble.
It wasn’t exactly a crowd, was it? Mind you a bear could have been hiding in there, or maybe dressed as pretend policeman.
I take your points about the reckless policies of the UKGov they are transparently obvious. The worry of course is that people will now flood to Wales and Scotland. The police here should be very proactive. As soon as the English cross the border they are in breach of the law here as they will be more than 5 miles from home wiithout lawful excuse.
There need to be signs on the border with Polis standing by.
CBB
You just don’t get it do you. You wrote “ The English are culturally more individualistic and less supportive of social cooperation than Scots.”
Once again you make sweeping stereotypical generalisations about the character of people from a different country. All of your pseudo intellectual BS can’t hide your innate bigotry.
I agree @ Muscleguy 7.49am. There is no reason why Police Scotland can’t police the border – it IS their operational border too, not just a national border. The excuses given so far have been positively weak. Welsh police forces seem able to police THEIR operational borders without issue.
Current deaths per week per million of population
England 15
Wales 8
Scotland 4
Northern Ireland 2
So if Boris opens up the skies to the whole world, then people flying into Scotland will have more freedom to move about and do as they please,,,while we Scots who have been in lockdown for 4 months, will have less freedom.
Or is Nicola going to open up the whole of Scotland for everybody???
Virus,,,what virus?
I’m confused.
Summary of Scottish lockdown easing dates here – see Scot gov website for more detail:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53166816
Home page for Scot Gov covid 19 guidance here – links to more detail on route map and stages from home page.
https://www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/
It’s understandable that people who rely on the BBC for their information would be confused. Even on that BBC page I linked to above, which was in the Scotland section of the website and claimed to be telling people specifically about the situation in Scotland, felt obliged to add details of what PM Boris Johnston announced (for England). A simple link would have done.
This was never a situation in which the Scottish govt could win. Had we diverged from the start the political opportunists, the Neil Findlays, of this world would accuse NS of playing political games.
I had a phone call in February from the NHS telling me that someone a flight I was on had tested positive for COVID19. In total I received 4 phone calls following up my state of health (which was fine). It left me feeling very confident that things were going to be well handled. Then everything changed.
This is very much down to Dominic Cummings’ and the cobra meetings.
Economically, we have to be in step with WM. If england gets the virus, we get the virus. We can’t shut down our economy without central bank assistance.
However, Nicola Sturgeon set up her own expert advisory group very quickly, once it became clear that the SAGE group was not giving correct advice.
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-government-creates-own-covid19-expert-group_15284.htm
What do you know there is a word in the dictionary that perfectly describes Boris Johnson!
Cockwomble
(noun) A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of their own wisdom and importance.
Rick H Johnston says:
25 June, 2020 at 12:21 am
Facts are chiels that winna ding.
Thing is Mist001 comes on here quite regularly with his nonsense. He seems to think he’s some kinda fortune teller that gives us his super duper abilities of predicting things.
He’s useless and a very bad troll. He has a fundamental basic lack of processing information.99.9% of things he says is lies,the 0.01% he states the obvious.
Not one of those things he said there is correct.Starting with first sentence ,then it just gets worse.
And whilst we are talking about recession, and a recession bigger and deeper than anyone in living memory has ever seen, can Kate maybe tell us how far an extra £500 million of temporary borrowing will actually go.
Currently around one third of our workforce is on furlough or out of a job. Rolls Royce, Swizzled Port, British Airways, Ryan Air, or the construction and tourist sectors to name but a few companies and sectors the shedding of jobs is absolutely huge.
Less than ten million a week going forward over the next year to support recovery is a drop in the ocean. Real economic levers and permanent ones at that, is what Scotland needs. And tell us Kate, what happens in a few months when the Chancellor turns the taps off and delivers nothing to save Scotland from recessionary hell.to support.
And oh how different it could be. What if Scotland were to take this an opportunity to capitalise on the plentiful wind energy around its shore. Yes we may have 25% of Europe’s wind but we do not supply the kit that delivers renewable energy. Do we make the turbines here, do we make the supply ships, the crane equipment or do we get the kit from elsewhere. ( hint – the new Viking wind farm off Shetland is securing Siemens turbines assembled in the Isle of Wight – can anyone think where the sea barges are manufactured?)
At least with oil we built rigs at Nigg, Kishinev and Ardesier and developed a whole supply chain. But not with wind!
A state owned renewable energy company too. Ah no, better with Ibderola of Spain. Who needs these things when you have McDonalds and Burger King jobs to fill
Ah well at least on Tuesday Mrs Murrell trailed out Benny the Banker for a wee bit of photo shoot. But not wishing to be unkind to Benny I did wonder about his pedigree of being the ex head of retail banking for both RBS and HBOS both of which banks went spectacularly bust. And ad the now CEO for the affairs of the estate of the landed Duke of Buccleugh, it did cross my mind as to exactly what message Mrs Murrell was trying to convey.
But maybe I misunderstand. Maybe the Duke of Westminster would have been a better choice. But No time for independence, now is not the time. Just give us another mandate in 2021.
You couldn’t make it up. You really couldn’t!
Twathater 2.53pm and liz g 12.48am. Well said indeed, i think half the time this is why my frustrations boil over when the FM just stands there like a little lap dog and takes this sh**e from westminster, instead of going for their jugular like a Rottweiler.
The SG said when the Isle of Wight trials were announced that this project would only ever be used in addition to physical test/protect.
Now that the IOW thing has been proved a failure the UK is claiming that it was only ever a back up.
Cynical. UK Govt floundering on Covid.
Indy required, but Scottish politicians head and shoulders above their London opposite numbers.
Just don’t expect English Labour to point to Scotland as the way to go.
A “wee “ bit sad today to see Ian Rankins photos of the litter left in the Meadows,Edinburgh which would indicate Bath was better! Sad also after being in a large supermarket in Edinburgh and was the only person wearing a mask.I was also called “ignorant “ for blocking the 1.5 metre aisle with my trolly while staying within my 2 metre line.
Classic piece in the herald today
Headline Scotland death rate worst, in the detail the numbers show otherwise
Has Indy ref 2 started????
“Scientists warned” hmmm, i think the science in this man made crisis has been rather obscured by a rash of dodgy computer models which have failed to deliver the ‘end of days’ infection and death rates predicted and a media which has swallowed the worst case theme with gluttonous relish; pure science fiction no less.
The superannuated NHS construct has been ‘saved’ through the postponing of urgent admissions and surgery to deal with a scenario that never presented.
National governments and international organizations have exposed their fallibility and their reliance on a ‘scientific consensus’ that never existed, certainly not among virologists.
Any doubts about government capacity to handle crises have been reinforced by events and the serious damage inflicted on already rickety economies, although the megarich influencers have done rather well.
The packed crowds on Bournemouth beach show that people will socialize that silly laws cannot be enforced.
In the end people will, unknowingly maybe, cut the authoritarian crap.
Suppression is melting away in the sun.
The mess it leaves will not so easily disappear.
Effigy,
He’s just a Gobshite.
Scottish police,300 or so, were or are standing by for transfer to N.I. So why can’t some of those police be used to protect our border? Of course, that would make Scots feel that they had a degree independence, and we can’t have that can we?
Details of Kate Forbes’ budget plans here:
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-asks-uk-government-for-new-powers-over-scottish-budget_15677.htm
Capella @ 7.34 am
Thanks for posting the link to the National article about the lack of cheer from many Tories about their 2016 Brexit victory.
What the Tories think or do not think does not concern me. What concerns me is that we are being dragged out of Europe against our will. Against what we voted for. Against what the SNP said they would resist. That is for me reality and I am desperately disappointed about how the SNP leadership is performing.
We are in the jaws of a double whammy crisis. A badly managed health crisis and an even mor badly managed economic crisis. Make no mistake real incomes are set to fall and fall dramatically. The chairman of the Treasury committee is already talking about cancelling old age pension indexation but that is just small beer.
One third of Scottish workers are currently on furlough or not working. Day and daily the job loss announcements just rack up. We need a national plan to redress that.
Norway set up Statoil. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states all too set up oil companies. So why not a Scottish state renewable energy company.
Or what of more rail electrification. Or what about port capacity development. The current plan to extend the Aberdeen Harbour has currently hit the buffers big time with the contractor walking away from a project in crisis.
Can we not create jobs and infrastructure for the future in areas like this. Well no, we don’t have the power as a devolved authority nor does it seem do we have the vision. But as this crisis moves on, events may force revised thinking, revised vision. Things need to change. They cannot go on like this.
Poverty awaits us all with riches for the few if we do not change course. I want a vibrant, economically successful Scotland participating in Europe. Yes, things need to change!
Can anyone on this site REALLY believe that lockdown has not decreased the number of fatalities. We already have over 50 % more deaths in this country of the civilian population than were recorded in WW2.
The figures are lower because we had lockdown. It’s not rocket science. It’s ok to swim with sharks whilst your in a cage. Not so clever in open water.
@Mike d
“…shite from westminster” you say. Well I read there’s been more, this time involving the Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick acting in an unlawful manner to assist millionaire Tory donor Richard Desmond with the Westferry Printworks Waterfront Development in London’s East End.
Westminster – Mother of all Parliaments, nah, with all the pish n’ shit that goes on there it’s more like the Mother of all Sewerage Processing Plants.
Scotland, why are you still meekly accepting the volume of corruption that goes on in this UK Union.
Aye, an Indy Scotland may well have corrupt types attempting to operate in our jurisdiction as well, but we as the electorate will have the ability to actually do something about it because our fully empowered Scottish Government will be directly elected by us, and not by our larger neighbouring country with 10 times the vote share that continues to vote for and tolerate idiots.
Sensibledave
“Once again you make sweeping stereotypical generalisations about the character of people from a different country. All of your pseudo intellectual BS can’t hide your innate bigotry.”
I have a training in cultural morphology and comparative cognition and stuff. Where as you’re simply culturally-bound and determined to insist Britain is one nation. You’re the cultural bigot not me, Toryboy.
A Cultural Neuroscience Approach to the Biosocial Nature of the Human Brain
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-psych-071112-054629
“Mist001 says:
24 June, 2020 at 11:23 pm
Westminster said ‘Stay Alert’..
..Mrs. Murrell openly admitted that Scotland had been following in lockstep with the UK government, which means that if the UK government has had a bad crisis, then Scotland has too.
Scotland has borrowing powers. It could borrow the money to extend the furlough scheme itself and in the same instance, to behave and to be SEEN to behave in an autonomous manner which would help independence no end but like taking control of ‘devolved’ health and making its own decisions, it’s not likely to happen.”
I mostly agree with you. Scotland’s response has been no less tragic than the rest of the UK. People can argue about the reasons why, but the facts are inescapable. And this is not unusual. THe UK has 1% of world population (roughly) but 10% of seasonal flu deaths annually. We don’t do well with viruses.
But I must disagree about borrowing powers. That is something Scotland specifically does NOT have. Nor can it redirect underspent money from capital projects. All of this could be a cunning ploy by Westminster to stop Scotland making radically different policies and showing them up. YOu may think that, I couldn’t possibly comment.
@ Willie – upon my word, the answer is self evident – next time you’re asked the question, say YES and persuade everyone else to do the same.
One wonders if New Caledonia is Big Enough, Rich Enough, Smart Enough
Nae “once in a generation” pish for them it seems. Maybe we should ask them if they got one of them Section 30 things so it is a “Gold Standard” democratic event…
https://twitter.com/KristinaHafoss/status/1275867310268522498
Why should Scotland borrow to cover additional cost uncured through the criminal negligence of HMG? We have been badly let down by Westminster and now they want us to carry the financial can. That’s English Torydum for you, dishonest, unprincipled, and a danger to your health.
Famous15 9:22
Well done you ?
Stand your ground!
And re the mess, one of the few pleasures during lockdown has been the lack of takeaway litter on our city streets
Sorry, I was forgetting my place. Of course we should bow down to the wisdom of Westminster.
Learned helplessness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141652/
A few thoughts on this muggy morning.
The lockdown was essential. You reduce infection by reducing the opportunity.
The shortage of PPE is nothing short of criminal. No excuse can justify what happened.
But the worst thing that happened was the way Dominic Cummings was handled. I can’t think of anything in the past 30 years that has destroyed what little trust people had in politicians. It has made the job of the police impossible.
Test and trace is a fucking joke. “World beating app?” Fuck off.
The only good decision has been to build temporary hospitals. The contingency was needed, given what had happened in Spain and Italy.
We’re going to get a second wave, and if god forbid it hits in winter.
Park Life – such an iconic song of the 90s. For me anyway!
The Isle of Man has more borrowing powers than Scotland
CBB 9.55
You wrote “I have a training in cultural morphology and comparative cognition and stuff.”
…. or to paraphrase, because you are pseudo intellectual, it’s ok to be a bigot, because you have been told that is ok to be a bigot, by bigots.
Sensibledave
“…. or to paraphrase, because you are pseudo intellectual, it’s ok to be a bigot, because you have been told that is ok to be a bigot, by bigots.”
You bigotry runs deep, Toryboy, its’ in your genes. So I’ll not take the threat you pose my well-being as an intentional personal attack. You just can help being an English Toryboy.
Culture and Identity
The History, Theory, and
Practice of Psychological
Anthropology
https://dl.uswr.ac.ir/bitstream/Hannan/131195/1/Charles_Lindholm_Culture_and_Identity_The_History%2C_Theory%2C_and_Practice_of_Psychological_Anthropology__2007.pdf
One thing I can and will guarantee is that England will recover faster than Scotland.
There are some real and simple drivers for this.
Firstly that the monies spent and raised for this emergency have avoided parliamentary scrutiny. This has allowed the government of the day to spend this windfall with their preferred suppliers. A good example would be the tracking app that never was, at a cost of hundreds of millions. Or an accounting company running the tracing for the England. Work for Serco and s4g both serial
Fraudsters but huge financial supporters of the Tories.
Without parliamentary oversight there will be no Barnett consequencials but we will share our share of the spend. It took 4 years to get the Farm monies from the EU that was sent to Scotland but spent as an Uplift predominantly in England. We eventually got that money but England got to keep their overspend… which we will get billed for as our share of general expenditures.
Do you think that a Man who believes that a pound spent in Croydon is more valuable than a pound spent in Strathclyde will support the regions let alone the devolved governments? Do you think he will support Tory donors over labour councils in the midlands?
A trillion of cash sloshing around the system printed by the BoE this is debt that we will all have to pay but the vast majority is going to companies and propping it the stock market.
Like quantitive easing it is a scam transferring wealth to the wealthy and leaving the poor with debt!
Back to Scotland I have friends in the tourist industry which has been booming for the last decade… it is taking ca massive hit and will take years to recover.
Loo roll? Diarrhea is not a symptom. As far as I can see, there is, at least at present, no prevention and no cure for this. Therefore, the choices are a) go to a huge amount of trouble and expense to have no other effect than to allow the children of the sixties onward to congratulate themselves on how compassionate they are, at least until the suicide, depression and home repossession figures come in, all while waiting for our immune systems to deal with it or b) let our immune systems deal with it. Once again, the new leftist cultural order triumphs.
Its us joe public that are getting screwed.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1275777144875073536
For those of you who keep on harping about UK gov bailing out everyone with furlough ,its bollocks. UK Government doesn’t have bundlles of cash stuffed under houses of parliament,they never have done. They’ve borrowed YOUR money as tic.It sits on the bank books as a liability and also a debt to you cos you borrowed it from a bank.
Its the classic ‘money out of thin air’ bollocks. Waken up.
Sunak is a wee con man that needs to spend some of his own money and buy a suit that fucking fits the wee weed.
AUOB are staging static Demos in July, August and September. Limited numbers and a booking form available:
https://twitter.com/AUOBALBA/status/1276078310527848448?s=20
We are about to jump from a reasonably cold frying pan into a furious and raging fire.
1. Recession will quickly move to Depression
2. UK Unemployment to hit 20% by Christmas – higher in Scotland
3. 2021 will witness 18 – 25 y/o unemployment rate hit, and stay at, 25%, for at least 10 years
4. Tories will make sweeping changes in the next budget to remove what little red-tape remains safeguarding pensions – and then they will raid them.
5. IF the UKG borrow from central bank, we will see hyper-inflation – and that usually leads to War, probably with China for ‘leaking’ fake coronavirus’s to cripple and bankrup the West.
6. The NHS will be privatised within 5 years
7. If all around is miserable everywhere, might as well move somewhere sunny!
8. Through it all, COVID N*zis will keep on banging on about the flu
9. Hope you enjoyed your little holiday folks – time to pay the bill
Hell – I missed 10
10. forget loo roll – a bucket and a piece of cloth will do, it will be the least of your worries.
5. should’ve said ‘fake coronavirus VIDEOS’ – do’h
“Once again, the new leftist cultural order triumphs.”
That’s piss poor right-wing populism, that is.
The SAGE Handbook of Environment and Society
Chapter 40: The Precautionary Principle in Environmental Policies
http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/hdbk_envirosociety/n40.xml
Well, Cameron, it’s not really right wing, and it’s not at all popular. Other than that, bullseye.
Athanasius
I don’t think you actually know your arse from your elbow, so I’m not that interested in what you have to say, frankly.
Law, Probability and Risk, Volume 5, Issue 1, March 2006, Pages 19–31
The precautionary principle: a new approach to public decision-making?
https://academic.oup.com/lpr/article/5/1/19/990788
@Lizg, 12:48am
Spot on Liz, as usual 🙂
Too much soft pedalling from the FM.
Is it any wonder when considering behaviour in England from that government of spivs and what seems like a generally sheep-like population that I think of “The Life of Brian”? It’s not funny though. The devolved nations are not just democratically and economically threatened by Westminster’s lack of care and contempt, it’s a matter lives.
England needs to leave the union and leave the other nations in peace. They can have their border, all round and do as they please.
In the meantime FM, as Liz says, get them telt what is required from our Treasury, etc., close off the border to southern “tourists” to make our lockdown efforts worthwhile and get on with ending this ridiculous, colonial “relationship” which bears no resemblance to a union anyway. What’s the point of waiting to see how bad it can get? We know it’s not going to get better because England won’t leave.
MPs, representatives of the Scottish Parliament (not Scotgov) sitting in Westminster, where England’s representatives disrespect the union with Scotland and over-rule on Scottish affairs as it suits them, why are you still there?
@robbo
Aye, maybe time for a wee reminder of the bigger picture of what “Brexit” is all about.
I’ve even been in a room where cross party peer Lord Kerr stated this is just a right wing coup.
https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228225075695898624
https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228279980884463619
https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18/matthew-sarah-elliott-uk-power-couple-linking-us-libertarians-and-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-brexit
And folk still wonder why some Indy folk are scunnered with the lack of urgency with some in the SNP / Scottish
GovernmentAdministration in making moves to protect Scotland from a future controlled by these fuckers.Yet with all this going on Holyrood appears to be distracted with smaller highly emotive and divisive policies that we can sort out after we return to being an Independent country… 🙁
Speaker of the House:
Let’s go to Croydon north.
Let’s go to Scotland
Let’s go to Manchester SE
Let’s go to Lewisham East
Let’s go to Scotland
Let’s go to Liverpool west
Let’s go to Newcastle South
Let’s go to Portsmouth west
Let’s go to Scotland
A bit of a pattern forming there.
According to the speaker of the House of of Commons there are NO towns or cities North of the border.
Just a cold wind swept place called Scotland,,,where every single Scottish MP is shacked up.
We mean nothing to these arrogant, patronising bastards.
Re my post at 11:55am… I should have said “Westminster’s lack of care and its contempt”..
@Dan 10:14am
Aye, because they are a French colony.
I mentioned some time ago that had Scotland been a Colony, Protectorate etc. It would have been accorded more indelible international rights.
So it’s part of the ‘de-colonisation process’, their second referendum of a possible three under the French agreements (Matignon and Noumea Accord)
First they had to agree no Indy Campaign for a decade ’88-’98
so both sides could get their ducks in a row. They subsequently had ‘Sovereignty’ transferred and now get a few bites of the cherry to try and deliver Indepenedence via referendums.
They also had a referendum on whether the peoples agreed they should have an Indyref. It’s more a case of the decolonisation should occur – so keep having a referendum until you get a result.
An interesting part of their parliamentary structure is that the President & Vice Presidents should be from ooposing pro-anti Indy for balance.
So, there you have it. Scotland is basically hamstrung because it ostensibly agreed to Union as opposed to having it forced upon them *cough
So there is no aegis of decolonisation under which to become independent. Or in Scotlands case, resume her independence.
Of course the logic being that countries in such voluntary agreements *cough have no need of such a process, as they retain their own sovereignty and rights to decide to cease/exit such an arrangement.
I mean no-one would have been mad enough to be in a situation where they were neither a colony, nor an independent nation in voluntary treaty – but just unilaterally surrendered their nation to another without a shot fired. That’s just crazy man.
Dan
“I’ve even been in a room where cross party peer Lord Kerr stated this is just a right wing coup.”
I’ve said as such myself. For example, there is no way that Brexit’s ‘planning’ was in anyway compatible with the requirements of the Treasury’s Green Book, so Brexit should not have been signed-off to go to legislation. Not in a democracy anyway.
Scotland 7 days average deaths 3, 7 day average new infections 18.
England yesterday 280 days deaths reported on world corno stats and just less than a 1000 new infection.
Have to say in Aberdeen not huge evidence of large gatherings even allowing for the weather though things are loosening up. One of many sensible decisions is opening beer gardens etc. outside on a Monday before opening inside and also currently retaining 2 metre rule and if it changes hopefully goes for Germany 1.5 metre. I would hope mask policy will be made mandatory in shops before malls reopen.
England is going for the same second spike policy as the more Trump like states in the US have done. Unfortunately we unlike New York, for example cannot impose internal quarantine on people from down south coming here.
I wonder who the narrow minded unionist moron was that was creeping around tying banners to the railings near Bute House in the middle of the night.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18541261.banner-comparing-nicola-sturgeon-hitler-appears-near-bute-house/
OK, Cameron. Guess you’re going to stop answering me now, then.
Athanasius
You strike me as standing firmly on the right of British politics, so you can’t expect me to respond positively to you bullshit logic. I’m happy to debate, but please try to keep things real. Mkay?
Alexa “What is Boris Johnson carrots one hundred, in Welsh?”
I love youtube, when I am there I can look into the lives of people in other countries mostly through the blogs of people we call westerners
The poverty in a lot of the countries is truly abominable to say the least, just getting enough food is a daily struggle for lots of people in these places.
Maybe that is why I get a bit annoyed by a lot of whingers and moaners that inhabit this place they call The United Kingdom, I have been in some of these poor countries and I can say in all honesty that people here are living in luxury compared to them.
There is a saying count your blessings, but how can you count something that you do not seem to realise you have.
The world is not a perfect place, people do make mistakes especially in public life, we witness that every day, I treat people as honest reliable and trustworthy until I find out different, but I, unlike a lot of others have not suddenly turned into some kind of expert on every subject under the sun.
Who am I to say that the government is wrong in the way it is dealing with the present situation, we will learn from what is happening and have a better understanding about it when all the data is looked at in the future.
If anyone looks into the spanish flu epidemic about one hundred years ago there are some interesting bits of info there, the americans where shipping soldiers to france in ships that where so packed that men where sleeping crammed up beside each other, before the men where allowed to board the ships they had a medical to see if they had signs of the flu, ofc the medical was simply to look and see if you looked like you had it or not.
As the medical was basically a waste of time, and anyway doctors are not there to find men unfit for action, after all there was a war on.
Anyway, the ships left with all those so called healthy men on board, but while at sea the flu appeared, men where dying in their hundreds on each ship, nowhere to go you see, I have seen photos of the mass of bodies being put overboard, the usual services where held of course for the dead.
I think Spain lost about 5 million people, it was called spanish flu, but they think it came originally from america, well americans with the flu did land in France so that’s a possibility I suppose.
My point if there is one in this story concerns us as human beings, we should not be so quick to blame others, sometimes stuff happens and that’s how we learn not to make the same mistakes in the future we hope, all I can say is that, most people are doing their best as far as I can see to get by as best and as safely as they can, and that’s all we can do in times like these
I smell shit.
Precautionary Principle: The Wingspread Statement
Lessons Learned: Looking Back to Go Forward
https://www.healthandenvironment.org/environmental-health/social-context/history/precautionary-principle-the-wingspread-statement
Whether or not you think lockdown had a significant effect
There’s no point pretending you are implementing a gradual social unwinding of it when scenes like this happen.
https://twitter.com/Bournemouthecho/status/1276052552556175367
Effectively this is playing ‘win or bust’ with the virus.
No second wave. What was all the worrying about.
An actual second wave. At least I got a shit day at the beach first.
Robbo at 11.27
See Richard Murphy, economist and chartered accountant. The UK government has owned the Bank of England since 1946. They can print as much money as is needed at any time.
Daily rise in new +vet tests in Scotland (7DRA) Mon 20, Tue 19.6, Wed 17.9, Thur 17.
Same metric for the UK as of yesterday (7DRA) 1,123. On a per capita basis we’re out by a factor of 5 to the UK rate of new infection. If you back calculate a figure for England, taking out the very low rates in Scotland & N.I. (11% of UK population), were out by nearly five and a half fold.
England (Boris and Dom) have relaxed restrictions way too early. The supposed “scientific advice” to relax the two meter rule still hasn’t been released. Hmm, I wonder why?
A second wave in England is a racing certainty, just look at the spike in the US curve.
Why do I always get the impression that Coronavirus is the new Y2K with the perpetual cries of “Nothing much happened, there was no need for such action after all”
Nothing much happened with Y2K, because of the action taken.
Personally, I worked relentlessly on testing and patching systems at the time. Although a great deal of remedial ‘patching’ was in ‘low level’ systems and could be deemed irrelevent (or would have had ‘low impact’ if not corrected) I can assure that other systems most definitely did require remedial action and the shit would most definitely have hit the fan without it.
Yet apparently my efforts were useless, worthless and just a big scam – because, hey, nothing happened, it was nowhere near as bad as we were told. Well, d’uh – maybe there were reasons for that.
Iain Macwhirter has certainly gone native:
https://twitter.com/iainmacwhirter/status/1275834507887890432
Maybe this is why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCzKqM567Ek
The desire to hold on trumps everything.
(Posted again as I screwed up the youtube link).
We’ve all worked with the Macwhirters of this world, the ones you know are talking mince but are so full of assertive self confidence they drown out the people that know the real facts, and the gullible believe the snake oil as it’s more appealing.
Scotland is in a dire situation, so you can imagine the intense pressure that is being brought to bear on the yoonstream. Scotland’s civic society must bend to English Torydum. There is no alternative, apparently.
https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/constitutional-authoritarianism-not-authoritarian-constitutionalism/
Missed this at the time but noticed it during a browse of the FOW twitter account which is still steadily increasing its followers.
https://twitter.com/FOWingsScot
Regional list development for Mid Scotland and Fife.
https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1275454601395793927
There is no scientific evidence to back up the claim that the lockdown suppressed the virus. Just look at countries that did not have a lockdown or a very light lockdown, they either performed just as badly or better than us. The point is there is no correlation between lockdown and successfully controlling the virus. Its all wishful thinking.
Politicians will never of course admit that they made a mistake with lockdown and overreacted as that would damage their image. With the public a lot of people are emotionally invested in the lockdown. They were screaming for it back in March when they were wiped up into a frenzy by the media and now they can’t accept that maybe it didn’t make any difference at all and they wasted 3 months of everyones lives for nothing. So politicians like nicola sturgeon will continue spinning the narrative that it was her mass house arrest policy that stopped the virus, and it was her farcical social distancing/bubbling policies that stopped the mythical second wave, completley devoid of any evidence but the public will happily eat it up because its what they want to hear.
Carol Jardine says:
25 June, 2020 at 12:55 pm
Robbo at 11.27
Yes ,exactly.They don’t want to though because its debt that makes the world go round paper money is basically monopoly money, a fiat currency, bit of worthless paper.Too much in circulation and you’d need a wheelbarrow to go buy a loaf of bread.
Did you realise when you deposit money into bank its THEIRS, NOT YOURS, it’s a funny old game ain’t it.lol
Now a nice gold bar,that’s the real stuff.The stuff that Gordon Brown sold for peanuts.The guys that bought it are laughing all the way to the bank lol again. And so it goes on,nice yacht,nice house in Monaco,Barbados…
bipod says:
25 June, 2020 at 1:53 pm
There is no scientific evidence to back up the claim that the lockdown suppressed the virus.
Brazil, USA , tic toc
Not really sure why folks think lockdown does not have a suppresive impact on an novel infectious virus. I agree that locking down a whole country is not feasible in the long term and a sensible opening up needs to happen. However….
I work in a hospital – should we have an outbreak of any kind of infection we lock down the ward immediately – i.e. to suppress the transmission across the hospital. That includes no healthcare workers working in other areas / no family visitors / using negative-pressure rooms for infectious patients / and of course correct use of PPE, etc etc .
It’s a relatively scalable process in a community or a country provided it can be adhered to – the point is containment. If you have symptoms stay the fuck at home – simples! General public – keep your physical distance from others, do not mix in large crowds and clean, clean, clean.
The problem is that when it needs to be scaled up in a community / country context not everyone follows the safety guidelines and so outbreaks happen.
As has happened here in Melbourne, we relaxed restrictions. People got complacent, and now we have hotspot outbreaks across the city. Yes, we have low numbers but this virus seems to be ‘persistent’ and not burning out.
It’s good restrictions are now relaxing back home but please don’t assume outbreaks can’t or won’t happen.
I should add if you’re unwell get as much sunlight and fresh air as possible – just stick to your back garden not mixing at the beer garden 🙂
Robert Jenrick backed by Boris Johnstone
No10 said this morning that the under-fire Housing Secretary still had the support of Boris Johnson after documents showed he rushed through approval of the Westferry Printworks development to save Richard Desmond £45million.
Bombshell text messages released by the Ministry of Housing last night showed that the former Express owner opposed paying the fees to the Labour-run council, saying he didn’t want to hand cash to ‘Marxists’
Well that’s okay then….nothing to see here.
This is actually a scandal clear example as possible not only of corruption at Westminster but the outrageous disregard for the public.
The man should have resigned. No but wait put that £12,000 bung to Tory party funds in your pocket.
Some people in Scotland, admittedly now a minority, want to be ruled by these crooks.
There will be no second wave.
@Dan 1.49pm
I can’t see the point of Keating standing as an independent. Surely pro-indy supporters who want an alternative to SNP or Greens should be trying to avoid having multiple choices?
Unless he has a particularly big local following or presence, or he’s going to do a deal with ISP or any other major new entrant like Wings or Alex Salmond, he risks splitting the vote. I suppose he may have a high enough profile personally from the S30 Court hearing stuff?
I had a few run ins with him on twitter in the past: he always seemed a bit bumptious and up himself to be honest.
@Dogbiscuit,
“There will be no second wave”
Is that a quite from everybody who meets you for the first time?
Norwegian Government recently admitted they could have done without ‘lockdown’ . That lockdown was an exaggerated response to a virus with no more lethality than heavy flu. There are questions to ask about quality of the death statistics. Dodgy Government statistics .
Aye Jerick .
Some folk call it Graft
Some folk call it Fraud
Some folk call it Criminal behaviour in a public office
Forget all these examples let’s just call it what it is
THEFT – or or if you want a sanitised version
NORMAL TORY BEHAVIOUR
That’s it folks yer till is being raided and yer life savings are in some scabby Tory fkrs offshore bank
A SHORT MESSAGE TO THE ONES WHO VOTED NO in 2014
This is all your fkn fault every single one of you hunts , Happy ? .
Numbers today:
Scotland…….today….02…….Total…..2482…BBC
Wales……….today….06…….Total…..1497…BBC
N. Ireland…..today….00…….Total……547…BBC
England……..today…*55…….Total…no data..*SUN
=====================================================
UK………….today…145…….Total….43230…BBC
All kicking off today darn Sarf , flocking to the beaches local services overwhelmed and it’s a jolly holiday season catch up.
No social distancing and no masks ‘they think it’s all over’
‘Watch this space’ as Boris said last week. 🙁
bipod
You’re inner Tory is showing through, and it’s not a pretty sight.
http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1791&context=facpub
The dug. They’ll be not second wave as long as you get locked in a padded cell with no access to anyone or a computer.
Then we’ll all be a bit safer.
Scozzie virus is here to stay of course it will seem to flare from time to time. You can’t expect the human race to go into hibernation every year and besides ‘ lockdown’ isn’t about health .Its about regulating and controlling the public.Micro management of our lives. Pubs and restaurants are being rendered useless by overly onerous anti social distancing regulations.
Mandatory masks are dehumanising . Having to live under prime ministerial fiat is not democratic.
Stop being frightened by the media.
Dogbiscuit @ 3.07pm
If your comment is aimed at me – I didn’t say there would be a second wave…jeez the UK ain’t even out of the first wave!
What I’m saying is that just because restrictions are being lifted – don’t be complacent. Outbreaks will happen.
Of course, that’s no concern to the WM government. They couldn’t give two fucks if some more pensioners die and a few poor folk as well.
I’m just pre-warning based on our experience here in Oz with very low numbers that outbreaks are springing up here in Melbourne. And it’s all down to peeps not following health guidelines.
The UK is lifting restrictions with still hundreds of cases and piss poor testing / tracing / isolating. Oz lifted restrictions with only double-digit restrictions with pretty good testing / tracing / isolating and now we’ve got spikes. You do the maths.
Robbo If you’re not willing to be sensible could you just pine away quietly like all the other old buggers who have been confined to their holes. Useless fucking coward.
sorry that meant to say double digit cases
I’ve been complaisant throughout this bogus ‘crisis’ because Government propaganda has never rung true to me.
Instead of doing math maybe wonder if we’ll ever be free again.
Many on here might not mind seeking permission from some overlord to live their lives .The habit of submission seems to run deep in the Scottish psyche. That’ll be became are a defeated people.
Where are all these experts in public health coming from, that what I want to know? And what are the ethical parameters of their analysis and opinion?
https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/dishonest-deed-clear-conscience-self-preservation-through-moral-disengagement-and-motivated-forgetting
Government ministers make policies based on dodgy science and you lot suspend your critical faculties. You’re having the wool pulled over your eyes. You’ll learn when it’s too late.
There has been riots and demonstrations on the streets of USA and UK with no appreciable spike in cases so fucking get a grip of yourselves. The riots have been going on for a month now.
Dogbuscuit
Crack on there, you’re doing a fine job of being a Tory. HMG were criminally negligent to begin with, so lets not try to sweep that under the rug. Especially as they want Scotland to pay for the privilege of having their economy screwed by a clown-shoes PM. 😉
Sweeping Dishonesty under the
Rug: How Unethical Actions Lead
to Forgetting of Moral Rules
https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10996797/shu%2Cgino_sweeping-dishonesty_JPSP_2012.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
@bipod
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/data-sweden-failed/
Looks like your ‘Sweden role model’ is not shared by everyone.
Dogbiscuit – complaisant, certainly joke of the day.
The Tories are desperate to privatise the shit out of what is left of the public health systems in Brexitania. They’ve almost done in England, and intend to do so the same to Scotland once we are removed from the EU, against our democratic wishes. That’s not a yoonyawn, that’s a totalitarian despotism.
Book Reviews
Health Care And Philosophy: Adding Justice To
The Debate
Social Justice: The Moral Foundations of
Public Health and Health Policy
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/pdf/10.1377/hlthaff.26.1.291
Mist001 says “Finally, the reason Scotland has lower casualty rates than England is simply down to population! 6 million people in Scotland will obviously produce lower numbers than a country with 60 million people! I bet if it’s boiled down to percentages and statistics, there’ll be near enough parity between Scotland and England.”
So let’s have a look at that.
Scotland’s population is approx. 5.4M while England is approx 54M. That’s a handy 10x multiplier which makes the sums easy.
10 day average daily recorded cases (Scotland, as of today) = 5
10 day average daily recorded deaths (Scotland, as of today) = 3
So we would expect the figures in England to be 10x that:
Cases = 50 Deaths 30
In actual fact the 10 day averages (England, as of today) are:
Cases = 236 Deaths = 130
So we can clearly see that, compared with Scotland, England is doing spectacularly badly.
All data verifiable from https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Calling Jackson Carlaw, calling Jackson Carlaw!
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/full-list-of-the-331-tory-mps-who-voted-against-weekly-testing-of-nhs-and-care-staff/25/06/
I think I spot some Tories in Scotland in the list, bowing to the English PM.
Dogbiscuit, I take it your head is so far up “Impeached” Trumps erse, you are seeing the world through his eyes.
The world is not even over the first wave.
Dugbasket…
You’re late for your meeting – Flat Earthers been on Bournemouth beach since 9am. Get yet arse down there – quick!
If you were in any doubt about who’s pulling Sir Kier’s strings…
Yet another reason why Independence can’t wait for a leadership brave enough to go for it.
I would have liked to see SNP parliamentary privilege being used to call out the obvious corruption involving dirty Desmond & pals.
Say what you see. Thieves.
If this is what ‘ leftist cultural order triumphalism’ looks like , then I’m a leftist cultural order triumphalist, and proud of it. 🙂
PUBLIC HEALTH ETHICS VOLUME 6 NUMBER 1 2013 1–2
Meeting the Authors: A Workshop on Social
Justice in Public Health with Ruth Faden
and Madison Powers
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1027.6003&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Andy Ellis at 3:13 pm
This in my view is the exact issue with a Regional List Party / Candidate concept.
SNP won’t have anything to do with it as they will stick with their “Both Votes SNP” mantra and in most Regions get heehaw for not “splitting their votes” aka wasting their votes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Scottish_Parliament_election
If YES Groups are dominated by SNP folk that may well follow the SNP line, or remain politically Party neutral, who is left to actually promote and campaign for ISP and the like?
Why would any potential Candidate stand on an SNP ticket in most of the Regional areas if they actually want to get into Holyrood. I am at the point in thinking that anybody with any real “Indy Fire” in them that is counter to SNP high heid yin view is unlikely to get selected as an SNP candidate anyway.
If Martin K and other Pro-Indy options stand in Mid Scotland and Fife Regional List then the vote is likely to be split amongst them and thus the concept fails.
In the 1970’s I had an old Polish GP in the South side of Edinburgh.
His advice in most cases was take an aspirin or gargle with salty water.Oh how we laughed but did follow his advice and survived.
LATEST .HOLD the FRONT PAGE Research in Scotland to explore whether a saline gargle will reduce the viral load to less harmful levels.
I also heard that Edinburgh Uni are exploring whether saline with a few drops of Johnston Baby Shampoo sniffed up both nostrils would also attenuate the symptoms.Certainly a lot safer than bleach or disinfectant.
“The privacy and dignity of our citizens are being whittled away by sometimes imperceptible steps. Taken individually, each step may be of little consequence. But when viewed as a whole, there begins to emerge a society quite unlike any we have seen — a society in which government may intrude into the secret regions of a person’s life”.
William Orville Douglas.
American jurist and politician
1898-1980
Fortunately public heath is a little more sophisticated nowadays, though the translation of this knowledge into effective adaptation of social behaviour, does not appear to be fairing well in England. I suppose half of them are Tories, so what else can you expect? And the Tory government is crap at communicating ethical messages, as an ethical perspective is not in their general nature, or scope of experience.
Social-Emotional Learning Should Be Priority During COVID-19 Crisis
http://neatoday.org/2020/04/15/social-emotional-learning-during-covid/
With all the trouble in Brixton last night I say leave them alone let them party themselves to death I mean they are the ones who tell us BLM yet they put them at risk and when the police try to save them they attack the police aye let them party and all the rest of the party goers over the U.K.
@Scozzie
Quarantining a ward in a hospital is quite different from lockidn down an entire. Never in history have we tried quarantining everyone even the healthy. So it would be foolish to assume that just because it works on small scale is a hospital ward where the enviornment is carefully controlled that the same would apply to an entire country.
Most people live with other people, maybe cooping people up in the same houshold makes it more likely that other people in the household will catch the virus if someone does become infected. For example in New York during the height of their epidemic, much to governor cuomos’ surprise I believe something like 66% of all new hospitalizations were coming from people who had been isolating at home with occassionally going outside.
@robbo
Is that really a spike robbo? Could it not be that the government is just looking harder and testing more people now so “spikes” like that will crop up. Has there been any increase in hospitalizations and death rate to match it?
Time to confess,though the saline bit is true I added the Baby Shampoo bit as I know any detergent attacks the lipid outer layer of Covid19.
The biscuit appears to be an individual who’s politics are located at the furthest reaches of the libertarian perspective, I can’t be any more polite.
Public Health Reviews volume 34, Article number: 4 (2012)
The Place of Solidarity in Public Health Ethics
https://publichealthreviews.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1007/BF03391656
R Long Bailey punished by being sacked by SIR Keir Starmer for retweeting article by actress that included comment that could be construed as anti Semitic…..
Meanwhile Lisa Nandy, while candidate for Labour leadership, was rewarded by being appointed to the shadow cabinet by SIR Keir Starmer irrespective of comments SHE made re “UK should look to Catalonia for lessons on how to defeat Scottish nationalism” leaving the interpretation open as to what she really really meant….and doing it deliberately too….
Keir does this on the day a huge scandal for a Tory minister starts to grow arms and legs…thus, in sacking Long Bailey, Keir has taken some of the heat off said Tory minister.
I bet the pro Tory media will love him for doing it deflect deflect….Labour…once again the Tories little helpers….and they are doing it deliberately too….
Margaret Hodge took time to note THIS is leadership and THE way to rid Labour of antisemitism which she was adamant was rife while Corbyn was leader….this comment was not required by her because many of us would have bet, when Keir was appointed Labour leader, that miraculously Antisemitism would become a NON ISSUE for Labour…
R Long Bailey’s time within the shadow cabinet in this NEW NEW Labour was always going to be limited appointment…..for sure.
One wonders who will replace her….not that I care…but do care enough to see the way NEW NEW Labour are operating …and Hell am I so not surprised…..Keir be Tony Blair the 2ND…Yep.
Sorry, that labeling was meant for bipod, though the biscuit does have a similar outlook, IMHO.
Exploring the Prominence of Ethical Principles and
Moral Norms in the Areas of Clinical Practice and
Public Health
https://www.amhsr.org/articles/exploring-the-prominence-of-ethical-principles-and-moral-norms-in-the-areas-of-clinical-practice-and-public-health.pdf
Hmm, anyone fancy new electric motor racing tracks for cars and bikes powered by Scottish renewable energy?
A snip at 5.4million quids handed to Duke of Buccleueh.
A chance for Greens and non neanderthal petrolheads to unite at last. Greta T’s backers should be all over this…
https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1276075267262484481
@Dogbiscuit says:
25 June, 2020 at 3:19 pm
“Norwegian Government recently admitted they could have done without ‘lockdown’.”
Norway isn’t a major international travel hub – the UK is. Added to that there was not any testing or quarantine in place at the start.
I have to say though since no one else is mentioning it (heads in sand time?) that when I first saw the Mrs. Murrell Nazi styled banner which was displayed opposite Bute House, my very first thought was this site.
Remember the ‘Twittler Youth’ graphic?
Honest. That was the very first thing that came to mind.
@Must001
That’s funny because when I saw the banner the first thing I thought of was you. Honest!
bipod says:
25 June, 2020 at 6:02 p
@robbo
Is that really a spike robbo? Could it not be that the government is just looking harder and testing more people now so “spikes” like that will crop up. Has there been any increase in hospitalizations and death rate to match it?
————–
Yes there has.Many states reporting it in US. Funny old thing its more young people who think there invincible.Not known yet what long term effects of this is.Think its 50 60 thousand past few days. Tests- oh do fuck off, trump talk
You go with your daft herd immunity theory if you want.Figures are showing not enough, maybe 1/20, 1/30 1/50 with antibodies (not known either if it lasts or how effective).Take bloody 10-20 years at that rate ,you need 2/3 to be herd and even then some will die.
Black death took 4 or 5 years and funny old thing they reckon it was because infected were quarantined in there homes that made it go away as they say- IT didn’t and still hasn’t, 500 or 600 hundred people died last year from that bacterium ..
There’s 20 x the world population now too with access to everywhere, not just doon the road. Herd is for the fairies like Trump,Bolsinaro,Johnson AND CUMMINGS.
Get real !
331 Tory MPs voted against the testing of NHS and Care Home staff. This included Jeremy…Hunt (is that the correct pronunciation?).
Nuff said…
Re Tory housing minister Richard Jenrick , Here’s a short clip from David Linden pulling him up over it .
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLinden/status/1275801842161799168
And here’s a belter from Stv News re Keir Starmer looking to reclaim Labours’s heartlands including Scotland . LOL
https://mobile.twitter.com/STVNews/status/1276106407490867200
@ jfngw
As if I’m going to waste money on Mrs. Murrell.
It’s quite telling though that apart from ‘Auldhundred’, everyone else on here has ignored it. They can’t have missed it because it’s been in all the media today.
And if you don’t condemn it, you condone it.
That’s all there is to it.
@Mist001
I don’t know you seem infatuated with her, hardly a day goes by without you mentioning her.
And the banner? Any thoughts on that or is it acceptable to you and everyone else who is silent?
@jfngw
Interesting article. I noted that the author recognises that most deaths in sweden have come from the elderly in care homes. You want to know another country that has had even more deaths proportionally, also coming from care homes, and also had a lockdown? Scotland.
It seems that the differing death rates between countries isn’t a result of lockdown vs no lockdown. The countries that were successful were able to keep it away from the elderly population.
If you lot stopped going to Reddit for your news you would know there was never a case against Trump for impeachment.There is however a case against Joe Biden and his useless son Hunter for corruption.
Remember Obama and Hellary Clinton are responsible for Syrian war Libya and Christ knows what other atrocities. You people of the so called left seem more bloodthirsty than the average Nazi these days.
There is an Australian politician in the Labour Party who demands mandatory vaccination for the public and calls anyone who disagrees with him an anti vaxer paints braid strokes with his slur brush . He doesn’t see his own fascism. The trouble with communists is that the share an arsehole with fascism. We witness their unreasonable behaviour on the streets right now.
We are being set up for compulsory vaccinations like cattle. All of my suspicions have so far been confirmed.
Pubs and restaurants are being regulated out of use .The experience is to be made so miserable and time regulated that you’ll be told the only way back to a semblance of normality will be vaccination. Those who refuse to be compelled by fiat will be socially ostracised by the usual brainless mob,hello Robbo Gary 45 Effigy etc…, with Government approval fully trumpeted by MSM.
Dogbiscuit gets it.
@bipod
There is no easy way to protect those in care homes unless you lock them away along with the staff, allow no one access. How long do you keep them locked away, without a vaccine that looks likely to be the rest of their lives. Good luck finding volunteers to work in that environment.
The advice seems to have been the elderly were safer outside hospitals as they were likely to be virus hotspots, that didn’t work out either.
It is not possible to absolutely compare countries, they all seem to have their own method of measurement. You can’t even make a proper comparison between Scotland and England, there are only two absolutes, tested deaths and excess deaths.
I don’t think ‘the dug’ got his vaccination from the vet for distemper or rabies .Somebody chuck him a bone wae a tab in it,should do the trick.
Anti vaxxers can go live in a leper colony as far as i’m concerned.
@Mist001,
Don’t think that’s a recommendation at all. He also chases cars.
Mist001 says:
25 June, 2020 at 8:01 pm
Dogbiscuit gets it.
fecking comedian ,am splitting ma sides-not. Feck aff ya pair o roasters.
@ Bob Mack
“He also chases cars.”
And when or IF the dog catches the car, it pisses on it then walks away which is pertinent because…
Still nobody has mentioned last nights Nazi banner. So, you lot think it’s acceptable?
And yet, the majority here find it acceptable to moan and whine about Alex Salmonds court case and the so called ‘Alphabet sisters’, yet NONE OF YOU are commenting on the use of Nazi imagery as a political tool.
You’re coming across as a bunch of losers on whom independence would be wasted.
Which brings me back to Bob Macks comment. If you lot got independence, you wouldn’t know what to do with it.
Like I said previously, if you don’t condemn last nights banner, then you condone it.
And the silence is deafening.
@Mist001
Ah! Just realised what you found offensive about the banner, it didn’t say Herr Murrell, I understand your pain.
@Mist001,
I doubt you live in Glasgow. Nazi imagery is commonplace in some sections of the population. You get hardened to it.
So you don’t have anything to say about the banner then?
You approve of the use of Nazi imagery as a political tool because by not saying anything, that’s what you’re saying.
@Mist001,
Surely your asking the wrong people on here. They are usually the recipients of neo Nazi abuse. Try asking those who put it up.
Mist001 7.38pm. My thoughts on who’s responsible,Yup, the same people who were ‘guarding’ statues in George square and spraying another statue at bannockburn.
D Trumps mob sent 1.4billion dollars to a million dead people !
Lmao
We appear to have some right toppers among us, keen to play grubby politics during a national crises. Put most simply, this is because Tory policy is generally incompatible with public health ethics and global health law. This is because Tories are a morally bankrupt and oppose the concepts of equality in law and social justice.
Public Health Reviews, Vol. 34, No 1
How to Think about Health Promotion Ethics
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03391661.pdf
@Mist001
Beedle dee, dee dee dee
Two ladies
Beedle dee, dee dee dee
Two ladies
Beedle dee, dee dee dee
And I’m the only man, Ja!
People here seem to have something to say about everything else, so why the silence and deliberate ignoring of the banner?
It’s a professionally made banner utilising Nazi imagery aimed at the dear leader, Mrs. Murrell.
I attract more criticism for calling her Mrs. Murrell than the use of the banner has.
This shows me that either the people on here don’t have the intellect to confront the banner, or they condone the use of it.
It’s absolutely shameful but I have to say, not totally surprising.
Now, as you were. Covid, Alphabet sisters, Salmond because that’s all you’re fit for, fucking gossip.
You’re certainly not fit for independence.
Did anyone see the new paint job on the RAF aircraft for president Johnson?
We got a tail fin and part of the undercarriage at the back for a million bucks. I wonder what private firm did that cos RAF wouldn’t have charged half that if their painters did it- fact.
@Mist001,
I’ll put out a tweet to cancel Indy. Folk will want to know sooner rather than later.
Mist001
I think most folk here consider you to be more than a bit dodgy, so tend to skip your posts. Tough titty, but that’s what you get for being a nihilistic dick.
@Robbo
Yes, I think they’ve called called it Arse Force One. If it was one of Cummings mates companies expect the paint to start peeling before the month is out. Although I think Johnson has probably described it as ‘A world beating paint job’.
@Robbo,
Apparently Mist001 knows “professional” printers who might have done it for free, in the spirit of Rule Brittania and all that goes with it.
Robo @ 8:48
BRIT FARCE ONE
Can anybody vouch for the whereabouts of Joanna Cherry when the banner was put up?I
re. the poster. It needs to be investigated by the police, IMHO, as it constitutes a hate act.
Ensuring justice for
hate crime victims:
professional perspectives
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2016-justice-hate_crime-victims_en.pdf
@Bob Mack
You could be close, after all a unionist would used Herr Krankie.
There must be substantial CCTV systems at and around Bute House.
This banner is a criminal act and prosecutions must follow.
Aberdeen beach b4 lunch. Contrast that with Bournemouth today.
I see trouble ahead Englandshire.
https://twitter.com/ScottishThink/status/1276163394467516419
Mist001
Thanks for the updated moody profile picture as requested.
Are you doing a shite in the picture ?
JaMuR
Lmao
Don’t believe me that the Tories are ideologically opposed to the principle of equality in law, so present a real danger to public health? Did you perhaps miss austerity, a.k.a. the nationalisation of private risk and the ideological persecution of the vulnerable?
Mapping the Issues: Public Health, Law and Ethics in
PUBLIC HEALTH LAW AND ETHICS: A READER
https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=facpub
British nationalism is blind to the human rights of those living in Scotland, so British nationalism presents a real and present danger to public health in Scotland. So we must have a chance to vote our way out of Dodge, before Brexit removes Scotland further from the protective force of international law.
We need an opportunity to politically avoid a state of authoritarian totalitarianism, as is our right under international human rights law. Though Westminster tends to ignore international law, if it can get away with it.
Human Rights and Ethics in Public Health
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1751819/
@CamB –
You’re backsliding.
I’m telling you that as a friend.
Because that’s what friends are for.
😉
Ian Brotherhood
Sorry, am I over-doing things again? I’m not trying to break the flow, I’m just terrified of living in Brexitania, removed from the EU by xenophobic populist nationalism.
@CamB –
Please don’t be offended.
It’s a ratio thing.
Just pointing it out, that’s all.
Hoots!
😉
Ian Brotherhood
None taken mate, it’s appreciated. I know I’m posting a lot, but it’s hard not to fight for my survival. 😉
@Ian B
My vote would be 1 per article from CBB. Can’t imagine why he thinks the constant cut and paste is appropriate. Stu is very….tolerant…
Andy Ellis
Do you not imagine some may appreciate the educational opportunity I’m offering?
@CBB,
As Oscar Wilde sais. “You can never be over dressed or over educated*.
“Said”
@CBB
Do you not imagine the majority find it irritating beyond belief? From comments I’ve seen I’m not alone feeling it’s far too frequent, annoying and pointless. Google is their friend. This isn’t the right place IMO. Your tsunami of posts simply serve to break up threads.
I feel pretty sure most totally bypass them. They’re making BTL comments a place I visit less frequently.
Labour MP Jess Phillips in Question Time just said
The we all need to trust the Government during this crisis?
She was left wing but she seems to be full blown red Tory.
Andy Ellis
I have a set of relevant skill and I’m trained to pass them on to those who lack my training. This is how social emancipation works, supported through education in the community.
Have you never witnessed or taken part in consciousness raising?
Consciousness Raising
https://commonslibrary.org/consciousness-raising/
If anyone sees BawJaws’ new toy, aka Brit Farce One, at an airport near them, can you get me a ’99, a vanilla
slider, 20 Regal King Size and a bottle of Tizer. Cheers!
£900,000 for a frigging ice cream van with wings! FFS!
I bet the Duchess of Edinburgh can’t wait to arrive somewhere in it. What say you Betty? Looking forward to it? Aye right!
Andy Ellis
That’s you telt lol
Poor you Cameron. Everybody wants to live in a free Independent Scotland which they want set free by the rule of law. Yet, whenever you tell them what the law is and what are the legal rights a citizen of Scotland should expect, you become a bore who is telling them what they should be entitled to .
They don’t care about that apparently.
robertknight
Back in the day I kent a few p&d’s that wid huv done that job for a few hunner quid a a couple of cases of beer.As long as you bought the paint.No way that’s a 900k job. Must have got rid of a lot of painters in RAF over years,no shocks
Bob Mack
It’s a tough one. I’m screaming inside, as I’ve got this stuff coming out my ears but I know it isn’t for everyone. Argh! 😉
https://www.public-health-covid19.de/images/2020/Ergebnisse/Policy_Brief_Pandemic_Ethics_GeneralF.pdf
Dogbiscuit is a Yank. I’m sure I spelt that right.
Mist001
Was It a real banner or something cobbled together for a photo opportunity? … FFS are we supposed to take a couple of lines of “Allo Allo” German seriously?
Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler?
Mist001
There I have found the thing.
Gott im Himmel … It’s hardly a portrait of The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobys!
or is that what you see when you look at it?
@liz g
Responded to you in another thread. Cheers
@Bob Mack –
On the previous thread you seemed quite sanguine about revealing yourself as a JFK assassination ‘lone gunman’ supporter.
That places you in a vanishingly toty number of conspiracy theorists who cling to the Warren Commission Report as some form of sacred text.
It was, and remains, a cynical, amateurish, sloppy farrago masquerading as historical record – if you are really so uninformed or wilfully ignorant that you believe it, fair enough, but if that belief reflects the quality of your cognitive skills generally then no-one here, least of all Cameron, should give any credence to your opinion on anything.
Ive got some advice – dangerous authoritarians never simply assume authority over you. Theres always a problem that you need to be helped with for your own good for which they can assume a ‘temporary’ measure of greater control. Do we believe that the days of people trying to assume more power than amyone should have are over? It will never happen again?
Anybody in the real world knows the answer. So what could such an attempt at power grab look like? Gunmen on the street? A sweeping grab of wealth? No, it would be achieved one ‘problem’ and one ‘solution’ at a time. Each step taking more power and giving back less. The only remedy to this is an alert public who can think critically and value their liberty enough to inform themselves
In fact an aware, informed, questioning and critical thinking public are a would-be tyrants worst nightmare. Thats why, as was looked at in a previous article, the decentralisation of communications has been a massive problem for them. But it doesnt matter if you dont use it. Free thinkers are much, much more dangerous to those who seek power than anything else.
I’m looking for information on Scottish Independence but seem to have come to the wrong place. Is this the Twilight Zone?
It DOESNT matter if you go down a line of thinking or questioning and you are wrong. It doesnt matter if you question a government or corporate narrative and it wasnt justified. Its the QUESTIONING and the critical thinking that counts. The people who pretend you are weird for doing so are the types who open the door to catastrophe by being passive, inert, submissive fools
One last thing ill say is that the average empathic human is totally unprepared to deal with a proper manipulative psychopath. Im not talking axe murderers, just a psychpathic personality. The reason is we naturally cannot comprehend the motives, thinking, morality or lack of feeling that is totally alien to us. Psychopaths however are the most perfectly suited at gaining positions of power
Joe you don’t half talk a load of pish. But hey some like it.
In personal situations the normal person always comes off worst in any relationship with such a person because they cant bring themselves to understand what they are dealing with soon enough. The excuses are made til the damage is done. This also plays out at a societal level. Its happening right now and people are struggling to face up to it.
@CameronB Brodie says:
25 June, 2020 at 8:42 pm
“Tory policy is generally incompatible with public health ethics and global health law.”
Can I make one wee correction:
Tory policy is generally incompatible with ethics.
Re the aircraft paint job, the RAF are not happy, because it basically reduces the available fleet as the camouflage has now been removed.
Bournemouth beach looked good… for spreading the fucking virus. Been there on holiday a couple of times, not bad but nothing beats Chesil Beach further along the coast.
The National
Front page today
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1276250561973805091/photo/1
It’s worse than I thought, you don’t just talk pish but also have a bad case of verbal diarrhea. Self isolate for 14 days.
Look z?zzzz joe, a squirrel . You see it?
Ian Brotherhood
I’m only commenting as my name was mentioned, but was not possibly a bit harsh on Bob? I try not to judge someone else’s judgement, solely on one issue. Nobody knows it all, so I look for narrative threads to point to someone’s social psychology.
http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/teaching/courses/2009-08UVM-300/docs/others/2000/howard2000a.pdf
Beaker
You’re right, and I can prove it through cognitive biology, and comparative cognition and stuff. 🙂
Ayeright @ 12.54
Jist ask a question,he’ll run away,tellin ye (days later)yer no intelligent enough tae warrant an answer…like we all can’t see he doesn’t have one. 🙂
@Liz g
Sorry liz, I cant keep up with you. You win
@Ayeright
She’s right. You’ll waste your time. I wont waste mine though
Joe
Are you still hostile towards post-modern critical social theory? 🙂
Reason, aesthetics & emancipation: Questions of identity and Representation in Critical Theory
https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/19165/2/02whole.pdf
call me dave
I don’t have an online subscription, so I’ll have to wait till tomorrow to read the article but the Headline – Police Probe After “Herr Sturgeon” message Appears in Capital. – Jesus suffering Christ are they going to unleash the “Salmond Team”?
I saw some of the comments on the National’s Facebook page and there are hyper-woke nutters aplenty … many who would sooner it was the Tonton Makout.
@CBB
Yes I am. As anyone who values our civilisation should be. It was developed by mainly Jewish marxist academics as a means to undermine Western civilisation when they realised the working class werent going to do it for them. So they had to get a little more advanced.
In fact since there are a few decent old fashioned leftists here – if you are wondering what the fuck happened to your side of the argument you have your answer.
Joe
I don’t know who has been filling your head with mince, but I think you should possibly be brought to the attention of your local constabulary. You’re venturing into Nazi ideology there.
White Men Can’t Jump:
Critical Epistemologies, Embodiment,
and the Praxis of Legal Scholarship
https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1094&context=yjlf
@CBB
And thats why our conversations are so short – you have nothing except labels.
I forgive you though, Cameron.
Keep posting the links – some really do prove my point.
Joe
Seriously Joe, I thought I’d sussed you a long time ago, I just didn’t imagine you were an actual Nazi. But you’ve pretty much described the Frankfurt School in exactly the same way as the Nazis did. Whatever, thanks for confirming you are a total zoomer.
———–
One for the more rationally minded. Full text.
https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199679805.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199679805-e-28
Is this a foie gras sort of sharing?
Intersectionality! FFS
Joe produced a series of posts relating to a society being taken towards authoritarian control, the personality types that rise to take power, and the difficulty in ordinary people being unable to deal with these circumstances.
Reading them just made me think, aye, t’would be really handy if we could directly elect oor oan Government so we’d be in a better position to tackle these issues, instead of being tied to and outvoted by a larger neighbour that appears happy to be run by the psychopaths he describes.
Dan@8.50
Nicely put, there are many who accept the control he refers to and are happy, because its “their” masters doing the controlling.
Democratic decision making is the antidote to power hungry psychopaths IMO. Real democracy. Not the pretendy kind we have atm.
@CBB 11.07pm
You’re the pub bore of WoS. The fact that you are full of knowledge which you are desperate to impart doesn’t mean that the rest of us are obliged to agree or even read your output. I suspect very few actually do.
If I was looking to have my consciousness raised, it certainly wouldn’t be by a pompous buffoon like you, nor would I expect to start in the BTL comments section of Scottish politics blog.
As we are twisting hopelessly on WM’s rope – anyone read Jason Michael’s piece on playing WM at its own game? Scots are going to be ‘othered’ by England’s disenfranchised poor after Brexit anyway – we may as well accelerate the process.
Thoughts?
https://randompublicjournal.com/2020/06/26/smash-england/
Doing the rounds, I came across this on Wee Ginger Dug….
“… By refusing even to consider any sort of dedicated plan to help the recovery of the Scottish economy, Boris Johnson has just given the yes movement another powerful argument….“
I’m not meaning to criticise WGD, but after Scotland’s craven capitulation over Brexit, when Scotland held every card needed for victory but caved in before it was even asked to get back on it’s knees, then frankly, arguments that “Westminster is holding back Scotland” are just lame, and leading us nowhere. It’s just “words”. …The whole arsenal of black powder is damp. It’s no good.
We must move the whole issue of Scottish Independence onto a much higher plane than this interminable pettiness and banality.
We are forced out of Europe by colonial subjugation, yet we find the time to argue about GRA reform.
Our economy is about to be savaged by deregulation which will destroy much of it, yet greater priority is given to whether hate speech is thought crime.
Our Sovereign Constitution is being supplanted, and replaced with an IKEA instruction booklet for a devolved assembly, and yet we’re not doing anything about it until Alex Salmond has finished his book.
We have a deadly COVID pandemic to survive… Yeah, let’s put Scottish Independence on hold, but only Independence. We’ll obviously keep the important stuff ticking over….
It is all of it, every word of it, too little, too late. Scotland, Mark my words… we can try for a 1000 years, yet we will NEVER recreate a more perfect set of circumstances to escape this dreadful curse of a Union than the circumstances which have prevailed since the Brexit result, and yet here we are, watching the opportunity shrink and disappear in the rear view mirror. The candle which burns for an Independent Scotland in Europe will be snuffed out in December, and our “Great Escape” Plan is scheduled for 2021… I… I… Really? REALLY?? What kind of plan is that?
On 24th June 2016, Scotland was living the tale of Aladdin.. someone had said “Open Sesame!” and we stood in a great open door looking at all treasures of Independent Nationhood. All we had to do was step forward into the light. We were there!!!
But we didn’t. We dithered. We dawdled. We said, “No, this is too good to be true”. And led by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, we have spent the last 4 years backing away from the light until it now looks like a dot on the horizon.
But we can still see the light. We can see it’s still there… for now. But we MUST change our leadership, we must change the direction they’re leading us. We must turn ourselves around and start running towards the light rather than away from it.
Get rid of this current leadership Scotland. They are death to us and death to a free Scotland.
Scotland MUST declare a Constitutional Backstop; that Brexit is unlawful colonial subjugation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Democracy, and we must then present Westminster with the binary ultimatum … Respect Scotland has a sovereign veto on Brexit, or accept that Brexit is the act of subjugation which destroys the Union of the UK.
My friends, that ultimatum and backstop will fly us back to that threshold of light and freedom in an instant more magical than anything Aladdin can do just by rubbing his lamp.
The softpower tyranny of English.
https://psmag.com/news/how-english-creates-a-new-caste-system-in-india
And…
https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-tell-an-upper-class-Scottish-person-from-a-lower-class-Scottish-person?share=1
The English conquerors not only institutionalized class they politicized caste.
A bheil gàidhlig agaibh? Only to the servants chum!
MELBOURNE:
`Health workers fanned out across suburbs of Melbourne Friday in a testing blitz aimed at choking off a surge in coronavirus cases in Australia’s second-biggest city.
Officials reported another 30 new COVID-19 infections in the city overnight in a continuing outbreak that has raised fears of a second wave in Australia,
which looked like it had successfully contained the epidemic.`
@MightyS
Looks like Jason’s suggesting we go for Alf Garnett Consequentials! 😉
Two new Independence parties launched for contesting the Regional Lists at Holyrood.
And here we are having a slagging match and dancing on the head of a pin.
Wingers, FFS get your shit together!
@Ian Brotherhood,
I’m pretty sure Cameron will make his mind up whether to listen either to
1. Someone who can appreciate his information. Or
2. Someone who constantly tel!s him to shut up.
Which would an imbecile like yourself choose?
Funny how the economy is being deregulated but we the public are to be micro managed and regulated as prisoners in an open prison.
Parklife USA
A Devastating New Stage of the Pandemic
The U.S. has seen more cases in the past week than in any week since the pandemic began.
http://archive.is/Edfvl
Surgical gimp mask to depersonalise. Marching through Tesco like a West Point officer cadet. Seeking state approval to go to the pub. Be socially ostracised for breaking the holy ‘rules’ My God.I didn’t realise how much I despise rule takers crawlers and yes men until I witnessed the collapse of morale on here.
Why do you uncritically accept what mainstream news media tell you about covid 19?
Remember when ‘lockdown’ was about flattening the curve’ .Like junkies the Governments keep making bogus excuses for extending the ‘lockdown’. People cannot reasonably be locked up under House Arrest for ever.
I notice covid isn’t a problem when State approved BLM and Antifa ‘demonstrate’ but a trip to the beach is an ‘incident’
Can you not see how the media is working your emotions ?
It is laughable in the light of the knowledge gained over three months that there are still so many of you in your holes. On Porty beach you can dig a better hole.
Fresh air and sunlight is good for you unless you come from Wick.
@Dogbiscuit,
Then you go to Portobllo beach and dig a hole. Next,put yourself in it and then cover.
The dug
You could always go to US and make a cuppa for Donald.I’m sure he’s pretty parched.
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1276113155010289664/photo/1
There’s too many idiots here still running on propaganda .
Ayeright popping up like an involuntary erection during Mass. You need somewhat adjusting.
@Dogbiscuit says:
26 June, 2020 at 9:57 am
“Surgical gimp mask to depersonalise. Marching through Tesco like a West Point officer cadet.”
You haven’t got a fucking clue, have you? The masks don’t depersonalise: they help protect infection spread. They’re not foolproof but they reduce the risk. And who the fuck is marching through Tesco’s? Perhaps there is a queue, so fucking what? I live in Rutherglen, and in Main Street people are quite happy to wait their turn outside the shops. They don’t feel like they are under siege, in fact one of the positives of the lockdown is that people are talking to one another.
@Bob Mack –
FFS, you can’t even insult someone without making an arse of it –
an ‘imbecile’ is an adult with a mental age of about five. I’m no Einstein but I’m not that bad.
And please spare us the pish about being grateful to Cameron for the links – when was the last time you read one?
The usual weirdos showing themselves as playground bullies instead of addressing any political points I make.
You do realise the economy is being ruined? No ?
The media keeps you frightened with ‘second wave’ fear porn. It’s sad to witness the Scots arses collapsing. Second wave hasn’t happened anywhere that has been opened up and cases of covid being picked up is due to increased testing. Most people with the virus are untroubled by it .
You focus with intense scrutiny on a few cases to satisfy your masochistic desires.
Beaker feels like a radge in a gimp mask . That’ll explain the venom of your attacks. You are a radge in a gimp mask.
I’d like to find a bookmaker who would give odds on a major
Covid spike for England.
The scenes from Bournemouth Beech and from outside Annfield Liverpool yesterday
Show the extent of the credit given to any distancing rules given by Boris.
If it’s good enough for Cummings then they are having it too.
Just going to the seaside to test my eyes officer.
Just going to see if I can see the League Cup.
Ye Shall reap what you sow!
@Ian Brotherhood,
You are to be lauded for having a neck of solid brass. You constantly tell Cameron to shut up either directly of by manipulation.
I actually do read some (my emphasis) of his links.
More importantly I allow him the freedom to speak because that is his right. He probably pays for that right as you do.
Please tel! me your not the type who only wants to hear what you believe to be true . There’s a name for that and it fits you exactly.
You like call dissenters Tories but you lot are fully lined up behind Tory ‘lockdown’ policies. Admit Bob Smack and co. you made a mistake swallowing media bullshit. HaHaHaHa. Get it all the way up you fools.
Catch yourselves on as they say in Nornirlnd – this is getting like the playground. Why have ideas and opinions been overwhelmed by personal attacks? I know why it’s being done, but am surprised at people, whose opinions I have come to respect at least, responding, There’s room at the table for all. Ignore the trolls!
@Dogbiscuit,
Fetch_____(_throws stick off cluff)
This whole coronavirus thing.
Does anyone not feel that feeling you cant quite pin down?….am I being scammed?, is something bigger going on?, shutting down the world economy doesn’t make any sense, on any level – it was never a virus of pandemic proportions and most of us knew that by the end of March, but it all went ahead anyway – almost as if the whole mapped out journey was planned.
It reminds me of that great magic trick. While everyone was watching the twin towers, the 3rd World Trade Centre was being ‘pulled’ – clearly a controlled demolition job and incidentally the first to be cleaned up and not even mentioned in the 9/11 commission report.
To this day, the vast majority of people have no idea that 3 WTC buildings fell that day……a-tissue a-tissue, we all fall down.
The Soviet Republic of Rutherglen . You justify the Government’s oppression of you.
Cadogan Enright posted e few weeks ago ‘divide and conquer’. Of course he is right.
It’s difficult if not impossible to maintain discipline if the leadership is non existent.
The SNP has left an army in the field for so long that it’s natural for discipline to break down into arguments .Theres no leadership .Its not your fault .Its the fault of politicians.
Our politicians appear to be working for a supranational power. You all know it by now .
Events push Independence further out of reach.
The most important thing for the SNP right now is holding the political advantage over the public.
Anti social distancing is based on poor science. The ‘science ‘ of political consensus which is not science.
Parliament has no intelligent opposition.
@ahundredtheidiot,
You and Ian Brotherhood should form a Conspiracy club.
You could present a Conspiracy theory every Friday night to a selected audience of the like minded.
So disrespectful, arrogant, ego driven filling of EVERY post with dozens of obscure texts, which may or may not have a tenuous link to the topic is fine then Bob?
This is WoS, not fruit cake daily.
Bob Smack you and your ilk are advancing the cause of evil politicians who keep you under house arrest to stop you from marching for Independence. You are staring at a brick wall with no clue how to proceed.
You silly old buggers.
@Defo,
He is not allowed to post then, because YOU can’t be bothered reading the links he thinks are relevant?
Form a lynch mob quick.
Cameron your about to be hung for posting your point of view and daring to back it up with articles from academia. How dare you. If only you had just murdered someone instead.
@Doggy paddle,
So?
@defo
So you take the high ground by making a slur on someone’s mental health. Classy.
The term ‘conspiracy theory ‘ was reportedly made up by the CIA in order to malign anyone who asked too many questions.
Bob Smack doesn’t like questions .You dogs are turning on your own.
Bob Smack comfortable numbnut.
What time do you start on the sauce Bob?
Nobody’s going to get pissed off by someone with a special interest sharing relevant material now and then.
That would be a good thing.
No no no Cameron should be hanged , not hung , for wearing trainers with slacks.?
I sometimes read CBBs links. In fact, there are very few posts btl that I do read now. Most seem to be trolls, responses to trolls, ad hominem nit-picking attacks on…wait for it…INDEPENDENCE supporters, and other pointless uninformative and not-tending-to-independence drivel. IMHO 🙂
Creases ironed down the front of jeans is also a capital offence .
Baseball caps are evil .If your warring one now I hope you suffer.
Chairman Mao suits should receive a stiff penalty also.
jfngw
It’s not a slur, it’s true.
Many of us have difficulties too, but choose not to broadcast that looking for sympathy and mitigation.
Everyone should wear a nice beret like Frank Spencer .
@Breeks 9:25am
‘We must move the whole issue of Scottish Independence onto a much higher plane than this interminable pettiness and banality.’
You’d obviously been reading the comments on this thread before they deteriorated.
The quest for independence seems to have stalled.
Capella do you really believe the fact that you have no civic rights or freedoms is unimportant?
The fact that we are locked up with no release date .That means nothing to you?
If backing up your opinion by quoting academia and journals is now outlawed we can forthwith close Glasgow,Edinburgh and St Andrews Universities among others.
Define Straw man ^
The comment rules are here.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/
You have to scroll down so I’ve pasted this one:
The thread goes to shit because some posters go into attack mode when they read something they disagree with. Instead of getting on board with the spirit of enquiry they want to keep their wee game going for as long as possible. I can understand that but right now the power our politicians have granted themselves is unprecedented and you don’t want to know.
This covid crises has exposed some on here as no more than political hacks shilling for the party that no longer believes in Independence.
Dogbiscuit you are wasting your breath with the Lockdown enthusiasts – it’s their “thing” and they don’t want to let go.
“How they learned to keep worrying and love the Coronavirus” to paraphrase Stanley Kubrick – a master of illusion if ever there was one.
And they (the enthusiasts) are in the majority – which brings to mind Mark Twain’s “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect”!
Well when the emergency budgets start and Scotland’s spending arrangements of the last few years begin to look like a mad spending spree compared to what’s coming perhaps they’ll “pause and reflect”!
To all lurkers hope you have your thinking caps on and I hope you enjoyed the beech yesterday.
Is it true Nicola Sturgeon wants anti personnel mines laid on Portobello beach?
@Bob Mack –
This exchange is annoying others so this is my last comment on it all…
Cameron isn’t well. By his own admission. He’s been asked, repeatedly, by folk who know him, have met him, and like him, to tone it down. Even Rev gave him a warning, not so long ago that you can’t remember.
If you think this is some kind of a perverted parlour game, fair enough, but that doesn’t mean others have to indulge you or your ilk, wrecking every thread with personal attacks and reactionary pish.
This place, and the Yes/indy movement generally, is approaching a series of potentially defining processes: the inquiry into the ‘stitch-up’ of Alex Salmond; the publication of his book; the continuing entryism of TRA activists into positions of influence within the SNP/SG; the Holyrood elections next year.
All of these things are connected in ways that *none* of us can discern with any certainty. But one thing’s for sure – the ‘authorities’ have made it plain that they intend to silence Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray, Alex Salmond. They’ve already managed to shut down every Twitter account Rev had. They’ll probably try to shut down @FOWingsScot at the first opportunity. And they’ll be gunning for this blog, more than ever.
So my point, Bob, is this – you are entitled to your opinions on everything under the sun, including my IQ, Cameron’s links and heaven knows whatever else, but unless you are prepared to get your head around the existential threat to this movement and show at least some willingness to help this place get fit for what’s coming, you’re really not helping anyone. Same goes for me. If all of our efforts aren’t focused on exposing and challenging what Alex Salmond called the ‘powerful forces against us’ then this movement cannot and will not survive.
J Galt they are defending an irrational position.
Capella so you would rather close down dissent . Not unlike the media .
Dogwhistle I cannot hear you.
Tell me who is in your team?
Gwone gwone gwone. I won’t tell,honest.
Please please please who is really in your squad at the old 77th?
Is Ad Hominem one of youse lads?
@Ian Brotherhood,
The movement will certainly not survive if you are condescending to people like Cameron with his personal challenges. That is not just unacceptable. It is crass in the extreme. Goodbye.
Personal challenges, played out daily on the most powerful blog Yes has Bob?
Enough already from me too, all this does is feed the attention seeking which lies behind it all.
Famous 15 It’s a section not a ‘squad’ .
Are you really that paranoid?Bob Smack so the ‘movement’ depends on not condescending Cameron?
I think Cameron can dish it out as well as anyone .
If a person is unlucky and has an accident or gets very sick and must go to hospital that person never questions the doctors medical opinion or judgement when they say you might need an operation or you might need to stay in hosptial a bit longer so we can be sure of a good recovery from whatever ails you
In Scotland right now we have the best and biggest collection of doctors scientists and experts from all disciplines telling us we shouldn’t behave in certain ways because it’s bad for our health and could kill us and those findings are reported to us by the elected First Minister of the country and the Health Secretary and the Chief Medical officer and the Chief Nursing officer and even the Chief of Police
But here we have on this blog arseholes who troll for the sake of trolling who don’t like the political leader of the country spewing shite out of their ridiculously stupid mouths on a subject in which they have no knowledge because they want to demonstrate an infantile opinion on a particular political view they hold that chimes with the author of the blog
If you want to understand why this blog and its author may be under threat of removal from the Internet permanently, allowing and behaving like this is why
Famous 15 what is Nicola Sturgeons plan for Independence?
Defo wants everybody who has personal challenges to stop posting. You have become a nuisance. Only those with total function should now be welcomed.
Now what piece of Academia deals with mental function and how to judge it ?
ICD10. Help yourselves.
Dr Jim you appeal to authority. There are other experts scientists doctors who disagree with Government covid policies but you won’t hear a whisper from them in the mainstream media and you know why.
By the way do you regret getting your Nicola Sturgeon tatoo ?
If course you could always use Mein Kampf,but that’s less diagnostic and more solution orientated. Perhaps you already have a copy?
Andy Ellis
Who are you outside you imagination? Jog on or do better.
Straw man again Bob.
Cider?
Stretches the giro.
@Breeks made what I view as an important post at 9:25am. I expected it to attract interest from several regular posters on this site. It didn’t. I suspect because they didn’t want to be associated with the drivel posted before and after 0925. I have occasionally tried to defend the quality of the contributions made by most of the current posters on the site. It looks as if I was wrong and the golden days are well past.
If that’s true then independence really is a dream.
Agreed IB,
Much more important events on the horizon to concentrate on and certainly much more important than personal one-upmanship that is really quite tedious.
At the start,most of us were quite happy to go along with the loss of our liberty on the basis that we were helping the NHS get into a fit state to look after the supposed huge amount of patients who would be arriving in their droves.
Fortunately, that didn’t happen and we now have 18 patients in ICU in the whole of Scotland.
This is now a political problem and we need leaders to weigh up the trashing of the economy against the heath risks.
In my and I think many folks opinion.it is a no brainer.
We must get back to normality as the number of redundancies announced increase daily with the resultant economic, social and health consequences therefrom bringing misery and poverty down the line.
The number of cases increase worldwide mainly because of the increase in testing but surprisingly the number of deaths are falling.
Just read a scientific report from Italy which suggests that the virus is becoming less virulent and much less deadly and hence the reduction in deaths as a proportion of cases.
If you look at the US the number of confirmed cases is enormous yet the deaths are relatively low.
It is just so sad that our leaders, especially here in Scotland are so timid and lacking in qualities that our country is now facing a long period of stagnation and poverty.
@Breastplate,
Independence would be meaningless if people like you and Ian Brotherhood had any authority. Just another England with a kilt.
exasperation on slow progress to indy, understandable. however, since the euref, nothing has actually been decided, nothing has happened.Im not sure if this cut off date of 31st june will be a red line, it looks like the eu will continue to negotiate up until the 31st of dec.
we lost in 2014, mores the pity, so we have to accept that the game we are in, isnt solitaire, there are other players and we would do well to remember this, even if we were a sovereign indy nation, our desires, wishes goals would always be suceptable to the whims of other nations
this is what bj’s english exceptionalism fails to realise.
as such, the long expected face off between holyrood and westminster is almost here. be under no illusion, this is a very risky moment in this movement, how bojo will react is uncertain.
but we should be aware of the moves in this great game that the eu and wm have still to make, bojo will continue his brinkmanship with the eu, indeed, im not convinced he wants a deal or ever intended to respect the deal he signed with the eu.
what happens if no deal is the result on the 31st dec? will bojo just sit back and dare the eu to build border controls on the roi/ni border? can the uk trade under the wto rules with such a situation? will ni stay in the cu/sm as agreed by bojo?
we should be asking ourselves these questions as when nicola finally reaches the face off point with bojo, she might not be alone….
If you say so Bob.
Pete@12.09
Its a wee bit early in the day to be pished on the delusional juice.
A well reasoned post from Pete on the dangers of continuous. ‘lockdown’
I’m more afraid of the Emergency Powers the Governments in London and Edinburgh are retaining for use as it suits them. Too many Government agents on here eh Famous 15?
Fwiw, ratio wise dogbiscuit has posted more comments than CBB, 22 as I count from just 9am this morning, overall on this thread alone I think he beats CBB or at least equals him.
But I know it’s not just the quantity of CBB’s posts that some are taking issue with, it’s also the quality of the commentary that seems to be the real issue about CBB’s posts but no comments on the quality of dogbiscuit’s input from those taking issue with CBB’s input? Not even the quantity of dogbiscuit’s posts?
And no understanding for how CBB is attempting to lessen his links to academic papers and has posted comments in response to others up thread without links? As others have requested him to do on numerous occasions on other threads.
Just an observation folks. A sad sad observation.
The Elders of the Internet Blog have spoken, please submit any comment to them directly prior to it being published.
Gary 45 you re reply to urgent questions by attacking the man makes Ian Brotherhoods point.
Bob Smack you’re being silly and naughty.
Rev. Between 9.40, when he reported for duty and 12 noon the dogbiscuit posted more than twenty times and in almost every case it was to insult another poster.
I believe his only aim is to destroy Wings and it is clear that many rational and democratic posters have recently disappeared from Wings so he may be succeeding.
I believe in different opinions being expressed but in a rational and civilised way. This destructive element is a danger to Wings and should be curbed.
Bob comfortably dumb Smack.
defo
You really are an unpleasant arsehole. I’ve only mentioned my past as a means of introducing concepts of identity and self-determination, and stuff. So why don’t you start informing your opinion, instead of trying to force your opinion on those of us who are already better informed than yourself?
@Ian Brotherhood 11.17am
Well said. It’s a shame the comments BTL on here appear to have become infested with bloviating blowhards like CBB and Bob Mack on one extreme and Dogsnack and his ilk on the other.
Back in the day there used to be some decent posts, a bit of banter and some reasonable discussion, now it appears to be mostly inchoate screeching from hard of thinking zoomers at either extreme.
No wonder the Yes movement is running fast to stand still.
Fireproofjim I insult people who insult me .Your desire to have me silenced says much about the strain fascistic thinking that passed itself off as the ‘left’ You’re more insulted by my being correct while you are wrong.
You actually sat and counted the number of posts I’ve made?
@Andy Ellis –
Aye, there’s plenty to be done. Good to see SC back as well – let’s get back to the plotting and planning!
😉
From ‘About us’
‘The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.
Got something worthwhile to say about Scotland’s future? Try us.’
@Andy Ellis,
So many words to say so little
At my age i ought not to be cynic but 2020 has been an eyes wide opener.
Systems admired and vaunted for their democratic character have shown themselves to be at ease with curbing the basic rights of citizens, in this case over an overhyped medical condition.
As the citizenry have been obligingly compliant and government having acquired the taste what else might be subject to lockdown by decree.
The older you get the more compliant to authority you become apparently. As Scotland’s median age is an over the hill 42 i leave you to surmise.
The grim reaper has now become a player in the political game…..gotta stay safe love….bless!
Andy Ellis so the site is not perfect enough for you eh? The yes movement is enthralled to a First Minister who is clearly not interested in advancing Independence. You know she and the National are blowing smoke up our arses .
You blame the troops for their leaders failure . Typical of your rotten ilk.
Ian brotherhood sat and counted Cameron posts, apparently counting posts is now a thing on Wings, don’t upset Ian by inferring fireproofjim has done anything remotely strange and weird such as ‘counting posts’.
‘Cause that’s gonnae make everyone who’s counted posts on here look like a total fanny.
You got a degree ?, in town fucking planning, and now you know everything Cameron.
You know best, and tough luck those who aren’t as worthy.
Unpleasant? Yes, I can be.
What’s the name for someone who, devoid of an audience, rides the coat tails of real talent?
Squatter?
Entryist?
Is every other post turning into the CBB show helping our joint endeavor, in any way?
K1 and you counted mine.
Uh huh…that’s ma point, oh humourless one.
So councillors and MSPs have written to Police Scotland questioning their kettling of peaceful demonstrators for two without incident from them and causing them to break the social distancing rules.
Whilst Police Scotland allowed the far right jack booted unionists to run free in George square in Glasgow which led to outbreaks of violence by them.
It would appear that Police Scotland has its own agenda, and individual officers have their own allegiances, our colonial police force appears to be loyal not to Scotland but to the union, but I’m sure I’m not the first person in Scotland to notice that.
K1
Fair point, I think the important difference between the 2 posters is that 1 has information to impart, but gets lost in the deluge, the other just spouts nonsense, attacks everyone under the sun & have never posted anything positive.
We are encouraged to ignore 1 type but engage with the other.
I have done so fairly recently, was met with hostility for posting what I felt was praise with advice as to how it can be better absorbed. Several others have done the same.
I’m never going to agree with everything, any poster or author says, no point if I did, would be very boring.
The reason I’ve not engaged with the other, is because it’s beyond pity, beyond saving & would be a waste of everyone’s time.
I now fully expect somewhere between 5-10 pots naming & attacking me from the Rex of Ad-Hom. But maybe that’s just me.
nice to see some names from the past popping up, yourself, Fireproof Jim & others I recognise as “lapsed” posters.
Andy Ellis
Are personal attacks all you’ve got? If you doubt the knowledge I’m supplying, attack that. Otherwise, jog on.
Aw come on defo…I’m trying to get dog biscuit’s numbers up here! He’s winning the ‘counting posts’ on Wings marathon, CBB is way behind now, old news ma dear, old news.
Dugbiscuit Pete,
I am attacking no one, “Use common sense and show some guts”
Whatever the *%$* that means.
Yes Keith, I’m aware of the dynamic. 😉
Apparently there was a bit of anger on Twitter with regards comments on the new livery of Johnsons military jet. Several commentors were furious at the £900,000 pounds spent on its new image, others pointed out that the Butchers Apron (Union Jack flag) is actually upside down.
Anger was aimed at the 60,000, plus deaths from the virus, and 80% of councils strapped for cash, and how the National debt now exceeds the UKs GDP, yet taxpayers cash could be found for this vanity project.
@Ron Maclean at 12:04pm
I think it is more a two fold situation. Disruptive elements are doing their best to disrupt so a lot of folk ignore them or are put off even looking btl due to cost of replacing worn out mouse scroll wheel bearings. That results in lack of diversity of input and the interesting conversations diminish as a result.
Plus, because of the lack of progress being made by our side and the stagnation caused by political can kicking and covid, a lot of the interesting input is now repetition of albeit valid input of opinions.
I’ve been out grasscutting for a couple of hours and can barely believe what I’ve come back to btl on here.
I understand many are frustrated, I’m absolutely livid that numerous initiatives myself and others have suggested over the years that were ignored at the time by those that apparently know better have now come back into play.
Working a rural area is massively time consuming so developing a digital comms network whilst canvassing for about 50% of the electorate that were receptive to the idea of receiving their info that way rather me spending days biking around the area would make campaigning much more efficient.
It was ignored at the time, and now because of covid restricting physical campaigning, the folk that ignored it at the time are now trying to hastily put something together… sigh
Is there any chance some folk could initiate new subjects to discuss rather than bickering? It would make the site far more thought provoking and interesting to read.
@Schrodingers cat
I’m pretty sure the 31st June (not sure exactly what day that is though) is just another of these rolling deadlines as happened in the withdrawal agreement (I lost count of the number of deadline days). I’m not sure if this is just to wear people down so when the exit, as the EU one, eventually comes the masses have accepted the inevitable.
Where do we go from here, there is no clear route that I can see, I wish there was. Possibly Jeggit’s latest post is one, effectively make England want rid of us by causing disruption to them. It may not be the answer but it least it someone trying to move the gridlock on.
defo
I’ve never claimed I know it all, I simply have a structured world-view recommended to me by the Royal Town Planning Institute. If you can’t see the relevance of me pinning my opinion to a credible cultural source, then I’m afraid you’re a bit less politically aware than is necessary to effectively defend your human rights. Do better. 😉
My style and approach leaves a lot to be desired that’s true but there is a brick wall here when it comes to discussing‘lockdown’. A wall of insults and deflection.
You should have no fear of spirited disagreement. A cosy consensus ignoring the harsh political realities will deliver diminishing returns. Politically everything is hypothetical until we get back our civic rights and freedom of movement and association. Any one who supports Government restrictions on the public is cutting the throat of the Independence movement.
I suspect that one day we will learn just how many Government Agents actually post on this site.
The unionist thugs were out in force yesterday, it must’ve been due to the heat affecting small brains and all.
Unionist held Aberdeen had a bus stop graffitied with racist slogans such as “N—– Die and “White Lives Matter”, meanwhile the jackbooted unionists spared no expense on a Nazi banner depicting Sturgeon as Hitler in Edinburgh.
Keith fae Leith when you address other posters as ‘it’ you’re not advancing a political argument. Now .Is that you all insulted now?
Keith fae Leith
I thanked you for your advise and offered insight into contemporary communication theory. I can remember attacking you.
Book Reviews
Critical Theory and Social Media: Between
Emancipation and Commodification
http://www.allmer.uti.at/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TechComm-Volume-63-Number-3.pdf
@Ottomanboi 12:40pm
Not everyone gets to be old. I follow Nicola Sturgeon’s rules because I don’t know enough to argue with her and I want to get older.
@ Dogsbreakfast 12.41pm
Nothing is prefect. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but we don’t advocate breaking all the working clocks because that is true.
Your criticism, like the vast majority of your output, is misplaced. I happen to share the disquiet expressed about the SNP’s leadership. As an ex-SNP member who left over the shoddy treatment of Grouse Beater I certainly have no axe to grind in the party’s favour.
Blame attaches to those who are not inclined to bring about change, whether by voting for it in elections and referendums, or whether they fail to change the SNP’s direction and policies from within. I don’t see anything rotten with pointing out that the only people responsible for our current situation are the Scots themselves for lacking the political cojones to bring about the required changes.
The massive Breahead shopping centre near Glasgow, is in deep trouble.
It’s owners Intu are going into adminstration.
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/talks-save-braehead-shopping-centre-18491654
Though it risks throwing a bone to the troll, I feel have to ask.
Does anyone here have any insight into the rumour that Mission Control may be planning to introduce BAME and Woman(definition of as yet unknown) only, short lists for constituencies where the sitting MSP is standing down?
Dr Jim @ 11.42
Many intelligent people have the suspicion that the varied experts advising government which you say are the cream of the crop are anything but.
Research Prof. Dr. Sucharit Backdi of Mainz University – an “expert” whose qualifications and expertise are way above that of those “advising” our Prime and First Ministers. You probably won’t.
I won’t descend to the low language you use, I find ridicule is the best weapon against ranters.
sorry…. I can’t remember….
Between Emancipation and Domination:
Habermasian Reflections on the Empowerment and
Disempowerment of the Human Subject
https://eprint.ncl.ac.uk/file_store/production/148458/DDB61756-F582-4526-AE41-15FC7964AAE5.pdf
@jfngw
Jeggit’s theory is worth a try. It’s as dangerous as all the other possible routes to independence, but, would be cheaper and faster, and so, why not..?
Would need ScotPol commentators running with it though. Otherwise, it’ll just fester within Twitter.
@Capella 9:01am
Yes democratic decision making. Democracy is only as effective as the information that the voters recieve. Information, and the ability to share it freely, is absolutely everything. Contol information and by extension you control peoples choices. In that way democracy becomes unjust rule via the decieved majority.
It is not enough for intelligent adults just to ‘follow’.
@Col.Blimp IV at 1.08pm
Ach dinnae fash yersel, folk can simply Self ID as being a member of most suitable demographic for selection purposes.
#TheMastersToolsWillSetYouFree
HTH
OK Andy Ellis agreed .
The SNP MP Angus Mac Neil and councillor Chris McEleny are urging Mike Russell Scotland’s Constitutional secretary to write to Boris Johnson to immediately transfer powers to Holyrood so that we can hold a independence referendum.
Both men say (and I agree with them) we need to know Johnsons position and quickly so that if he says no we can push on with Plan B. Will Mike Russell get his finger out and write to Johnson I hope so sooner than later.
Meanwhile the millionaire Knight of the Realm and Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer backs his branch office in Scotlands unconditional rejection of a second independence referendum. The ennobled leader of Labour added independence is the wrong thing to do.
We really need to exit this horrendous union or face the terrible consequences of remaining tied to it.
@K1 says:
26 June, 2020 at 12:54 pm
“Aw come on defo…I’m trying to get dog biscuit’s numbers up here!”
Trying to figure out what breed he represents. Definitely not pedigree and he’s no one’s chum. Perhaps he got muzzled in his youth, hence the aversion to face masks.
Back on topic, I see the good people of Bournemouth were left with 22 tons of litter (and human waste) to clear up. The only good news was that traffic wardens issued a record number of tickets.
UK column News is live on YouTube right now if anyone is interested. Enjoy.
‘My style and approach leaves a lot to be desired that’s true…’
First honest acknowledgment from you where you sound like the human being that you are.
Yes we’re many of us in the dark about what’s really going on re the virus and the response and some are more emotionally and psychologically disposed to reacting by attacking the powers that be for sheer incompetence or lack thereof, but why repeatedly attack ordinary punters who are just out of their own fears and limited knowledge complying with guidance out of ‘an abundance of caution’?
You made your point the first time, the hundredth time, when your style and approach ends up drowning out your message which you can clearly articulate without that ‘dogged’ style as you just did, then surely you can see that will more likely engage others with your input?
You are being side stepped as much by others’s reactions to you as they are by your reactions to them.
Break the cycle and then just maybe we’ll get a dialogue that’s more nuanced from all of us on here.
_________________
Take it easy everyone, this too shall pass. Nice to see you Dr Jim 🙂
Dan @ 12.58
Now yer talking!
Have you read jeggits post today ?
I’d be curious to know what you and the other’s thought?
K1
I think the difference is no one cares about dog biscuit Cameron on the other hand matters 🙂
The English are so fickle when it comes to the weather.
One day of sunshine and they think it’s here to stay.
Like Scotland, many parts of England get their one day of Sunshine, then four of rain.
England is definitely not Greece, and more often than not, they will experience rain rather than sunshine.
So all this talk of open air bars and restaurants is a wee bit premature.
Serious question.Is it a human right to distort and disrupt or gaslight the peoples of Scotland?
@Dan 12:58pm
I think I might be an independence obsessive. After independence If I can think of another topic I’ll certainly post it.
Just an FYI Wingers
UK Colum is a pale British Nationalist imitation of the right-wing nutjoberry of Infowars.
Their take on things can be entertaining but their hand wringing over how maligned Tommy Yaxlay Robison is,not so much!
just heard on LBC, problems in the weegie.
@Liz g
Yer Alert Reader badge is on a shoogly peg.
Re. Jeggit, in amongst aw the barkin up ^^^ I guess you missed my Alf Garnett Consequentials gag… 😉
I see pishy breeks has piped up. Needs attention he’s no getting his 300 quid a day HOL fee- or are they,anyone know if they’re getting owt?
https://twitter.com/murrayf00te/status/1217188091443732481
There’s far too many purile comments flying around in here, lets ignore this stupidity we are moving away from what matters and allowing the trolls and the 77th brigade to dictate the topics, and in the processing weakening this blogs reputation.
Serious incident in Glasgow reported West George St heavy police presence! Big Auntie news just breaking.
Air farce One: Maybe a repaint required.
https://munguin.wordpress.com/2020/06/25/yer-flegs-upside-doon-ya-wally/
Liz g if UK column News are right wing nut jobs they should be getting behind the Governments policies no?
You’re a bit purist in your approach it seems.
Your willing to believe the main stream media when it suits you.
Police officer stabbed and some others shoppers in hospital in Glasgow according to BBC news. 🙁
Right-wing populism forces mainstream politics to move to the right, so racist authoritarianism is introduced through stealth. Scotland did not join with England to become subsumed by England’s cultural bigotry (see Brexit).
Beg to differ Liz, CBB is getting it in the ear from long termers on here and from SD on a regular basis, basically telling him to stfu. How is that care?
Naw, selective biases, if yer gonnae start using ratio’s in terms of adjudicating then that applies to all posters who are deemed disruptive which is how CBB’s posts are being characterised? The ratio is a counting of posts exercise only applied to CBB, he’s been singled out because some have an issue with his ‘many’ posts with links to academic papers, whereas dogbiscuit’s r number is higher, are his/her posts not disruptive enough to ‘care’ about on here?
Funny way of showing that Cameron’s input matters if he’s the one who attracts such specific opprobrium.
And…the amount of replies to dogbiscuit’s posts shows a level of care from those willing to engage with those posts too.
@ joe – 1.15 – at last, you’ve said something I argee with.
Yes freedom of information and speech are vital to a democracy. That’s why Alex Salmond (now on RT), Craig Murray, Stu Campbell and perhaps Mark Hirst are being shunted off the internet. This is the one communication sphere not entirely controlled by billionairs and corporations. Yet. But they’re getting there.
Dan @ 1.37
LOL….caught….I’ve just been speed reading the last few day’s…
I’ve been busy elsewhere,tell ye better when I see ye,with what..shhh 🙂
K1 @ 2.18
Fair enough K1, it can be read that way too,I’m sure it will all get talked out properly when we all meet up 🙂
One more thing on the list of all the catching up we have to do… We’re gonnay need a long weekend and no just a night out at this rate…LOL
Great to see SC and Dr Jim commenting. The quality of debate won’t improve until the site moves on to campaign-for-Indy mode. Attacking the Tories, Westminster and the appalling MSM is much more important that complaining about Pete Wishart’s tweets and such like weighty matters. IMHO.
Re BREXIT – AFAIK the 30th June deadline is about whether or not the UK can ask for an extension to the transition period. It’s already said to be impossible to reach a “deal” before the end of the year. So that means a “no deal” BREXIT. That, in turn, means a hard border in Ireland. That, in turn, means an end to the Treaty of Union.
@ Liz g – BTW I agree about the British Column site – the two presenters seem to be quite depressed. It would be a full time job fact checking all their assertions – I don’t have the time.
If you’re thinking the ‘meaningless word’ count on here is high
How about this from the ‘8 Million Genders’ school of thought that has rooted itself in the SNP.
On the BBC’s free online study support resource for school-age pupils
(We’ve come a long way since singing together with William Appleby)
‘Asexual’ is an umbrella term that covers a big spectrum of identities, feelings, and experiences, and all of these things can vary hugely. There is a whole range of more specific asexual identities such as greysexual and demisexual, and asexual people can have all sorts of different feelings about having sex, romance, and forming relationships.
I doubt the author is even aware she is arguing her own description out of existence here.
@callmedave says:
26 June, 2020 at 2:17 pm
“Police officer stabbed and some others shoppers in hospital in Glasgow according to BBC news. ? ”
Latest is 3 deaths by stabbing and suspect shot dead by police. Police officer injured and in hospital. Not good.
@Liz g 1:33pm
Yes the readers of WOS need you to tell them what to think about a given subject or source of info.
Onca again the labels and thought control come out since they are only tool of argument for the most clueless of commenters here.
@Capella
You dont have to fact check everything.
Pick one. Lets see what you can do
I’m hearing the Glasgow Attacker has selected this hotel as
It accommodated Asylum Seekers?
Right wing extremist protecting his white Supremest philosophy.
The link for the BBC’s asexual article
http://archive.is/RBYFj
@ effijy 3.08
‘Right wing extremist protecting his white Supremest philosophy.’
Heard that too, and seen some pictures on twitter of a victim being attended to by what looks like a friend/relative which may support that possibility.
Anet the stabbings in Glasgow.
If it was conducted by a Far Right type will it be described as a “terrorist incident”?
Will the BritNat Media apologise for shielding these thugs from proper reportage?
Will dog whistle politicos like Murdo, Tompkins et al be held to account for legitimising these peoples twisted beliefs?
Sad state of affairs.
Lot of offensive speculation and images getting posted on Twitter. FFS why can’t people wait until we get the facts?
@Beaker
Not good right enough. I hope it is not a racial incident and the BBC are not giving any hints either way, although the hotel is being used as temporary housing for asylum seekers.
Folk being ‘arrested’ live there on BBC from the hotel obviously to help police with their enquiries. 🙁
Six others in hospital (one a policeman critical condition but stable) BBC
Anyhoo!
Figures for today
Scotland………today…..00…….Total….2482….BBC
Wales…………today…..02…….Total..^^1497….BBC
N. Ireland…….today…..01…….Total…..548….BBC
England……….today….*67…….Total.no data…*SUN
========================================================
England……….today..no data…..Total…*43297..*SUN
Welsh fig total ^^1497 same as yesterday due to a counting error by WGov yesterday.
Could be a troubled individual who has flipped as opposed to politically/racially motivated.
Capella @ 2.52
Aye….don’t waste yer time.. I look in now and again for pure entertainment value the twisting of the narrative is quite something,sometimes ye wonder if they actually believe that stuff,but now and again there’s an interesting fact that comes up….usually nothing to do with the line they’re pushing but a wee tangent worth looking at!
dakk @ 3.49
I must admit that was my first thought too,there’s no much capital for someone with an agenda as far as I can see.
Dreadful nevertheless…
@ Republicofscotland:
“meanwhile the jackbooted unionists spared no expense on a Nazi banner depicting Sturgeon as Hitler in Edinburgh.”
Apart from myself and auldhundred, not ONE SINGLE person on here condemned that banner. They consciously and deliberately ignored it.
And if they didn’t condemn it, then they condoned it. THAT’S the calibre of people on this site, essentially Nazi apologists.
This site’s full of gossipy fucking blowhards and I’ve had enough. Covid, Salmond, Alphabet Sisters, 77th Brigade and all this. It’s all fucking nonsense.
This is no longer an independence site, it’s just full of empty headed, dangerous tittle tattle merchants masquerading as independence supporters who won’t know what to do with themselves if Scotland gains independence.
Anyway Republic, I’ll probably read your posts elsewhere. Ciao.
Ian Brotherhood
I missed this comment, so I’m glad I checked back
“This exchange is annoying others so this is my last comment on it all…
Cameron isn’t well. By his own admission. He’s been asked, repeatedly, by folk who know him, have met him, and like him, to tone it down. Even Rev gave him a warning, not so long ago that you can’t remember.”
Hold on there a minute, you appear to be doubting my rationality, which is more than a bit cheeky. I suffer from PTSD and depression, there is nothing wrong with my sanity.
“If you think this is some kind of a perverted parlour game, fair enough, but that doesn’t mean others have to indulge you or your ilk, wrecking every thread with personal attacks and reactionary pish.”
Is that not what you are doing to me? It is pretty clear you have not appreciated the efforts I’ve made to raise social consciousness, and now you appear to think yourself competent to judge my credability.
“This place, and the Yes/indy movement generally, is approaching a series of potentially defining processes: the inquiry into the ‘stitch-up’ of Alex Salmond; the publication of his book; the continuing entryism of TRA activists into positions of influence within the SNP/SG; the Holyrood elections next year.
All of these things are connected in ways that *none* of us can discern with any certainty. But one thing’s for sure – the ‘authorities’ have made it plain that they intend to silence Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray, Alex Salmond. They’ve already managed to shut down every Twitter account Rev had. They’ll probably try to shut down @FOWingsScot at the first opportunity. And they’ll be gunning for this blog, more than ever.
So my point, Bob, is this – you are entitled to your opinions on everything under the sun, including my IQ, Cameron’s links and heaven knows whatever else, but unless you are prepared to get your head around the existential threat to this movement and show at least some willingness to help this place get fit for what’s coming, you’re really not helping anyone. Same goes for me. If all of our efforts aren’t focused on exposing and challenging what Alex Salmond called the ‘powerful forces against us’ then this movement cannot and will not survive.”
I’ve been knocking my pan in to inform the debate with scientific, ethical, and legal evidence and opinion, that would improve the reader’s understanding of what is going on. Can you imagine how I feel that this effort appears to have passed you by, as you interpret my self-determination as mental illness. That’s not what friends do for each other, but know I at least know where you’re coming from. 🙁
Cameron, your one of the good guys, don’t take the bait.
Ian B is only trying to give you friendly advice, there are one or two who try and give you grief, Ian isn’t one of them.
Sit back and let them rant.
Gary45%
That’s not how I interpreted Ian’s comment, though perhaps I’m just being a snowflake. I’m cool though. 😉
@CamB –
I hate to think that I’ve upset you. I was just trying to be honest and I hope you’ll give some brownie points for that at least.
Quite a few others seem to have been irked or offended by what I said so I’ll take some time out and have a think about it all.
A parting thought – I used to heartily recommend this place (i.e. btl) to anyone who would listen to me but I haven’t done so for ages. The place is in a sorry state altogether but if you feel that you can improve it and have the support to do so, good luck to ye.
BTW, I’ll still be reading, but this seems to be a case of irresistible force vs immovable object. (I hope you don’t object to being described as immovable because I’m certainly not irresistible.)
Hoots for now mister.
😉
@Cameron.
Always remember that sometimes lovely curtains can hide dirty windows. I think you understand what I mean by that.
Ian Brotherhood
I’m doing my best to be human, but I’ve been trained to use science and the law to defend the human spirit. I was a bit hurt but I’ve had worse on my nose. 😉
Cameron it’s probably worth nothing to you but I think Gary 45 is right .
186 new Covid deaths in UK today according to Sky News.
None in Scotland.
Looks like England’s second wave may be starting already,with Scotland by association likely to follow soon.
Unless we control the borders of course.
Ok ok who’s got a photo of the offending banner ?
Well that’s someone asking for details about the banner ok happy ?
Figures for today official:
Scotland………today…..00…….Total….2482….BBC
Wales…………today…..02…….Total..^^1497….BBC
N. Ireland…….today…..01…….Total…..548….BBC
England……….today….*67…….Total.no data…*SUN
========================================================
UK……….today….1.86…..Total…..43414…BBC
I’m certainly not immovable, so hopefully I’m irresistible. 🙂
Locating the Subject: Towards a Reading of Young Women,
Identity and Postmodernity
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/43663.pdf
Friday nicht thought… Maybe folk need to stop being so fragile and triggered.
Circumstances at the present time mean we’re using the cold hard written word to converse, which wholly lacks the nuance and emotional gestures a face to face conversation with a pint would have.
FFS, let’s get some perspective here. We are trying to free our country from the last vestiges of imperially minded psychopath rulers that for hunners of years have caused havoc around the planet.
Aye, at times it’s shite being Scottish, but we’re working towards fixing that… so nae cunt leaves here till the job’s done! (Mimics throwing pint glass over shoulder)
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.
We were all meant to shine as children do. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone, and as we let out own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same, as we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others…“
Putting the wishes of others first, teaches you that you come second. Not a winning formula.
In the last few days ive posted some things ive genuinely thought about. The responses to them were basically trolling 101. Anytime someone speaks against the bullshit narrow perspective of what now supposedly represents Scottish nationalism is labelled, then the label attacked. Me and my ‘ilk’ are just getting started. This is why lefties always end up looking for regulated safe spaces.
Can we all take a chill pill? Let’s drop the personal attacks on each other and focus on debating the job at hand.
It doesn’t help that we have complete silence from the SNP on the ‘I’ word and COVID has to a degree disabled the YES movement.
However, we’ve got good minds on this site, let’s knock heads together to kickstart momentum. The YES movement has achieved so much in changing hearts and minds. We just need to be nimble, adapt and ‘get back on the horse’.
We shouldn’t sit about waiting for a green light – just start doing things again…anything is better than arguing amongst ourselves.
– AUOB organise a virtual protest
– Phantom Power get some short, snappy videos circulating e.g 50 ways to be shafted by WM. But also do some serious stuff e.g. education on HR election voting system.
– YES hubs, coordinate better online. Do online campaigns collectively and hit all your social media followers at the same time on various subjects e.g. countdown to no deal Brexit and its impact etc.
– Indy poster boy – get viral memes going, humour always works best and is most likely to be shared.
There must be peeps on here who are well connected or have great talents to get this fucking show back on the road!
From BBC live rolling news:
————————————————————–
What do we know so far?
A suspect has been shot dead by police after six people were injured, including an officer, during a major incident in Glasgow.
The incident happened at the Park Inn Hotel in West George Street, in the centre of the city at about 12.50.
The 91-room hotel was housing asylum seekers for the Mears Group, which moved them there during the coronavirus lockdown.
The suspect was shot by armed police and died.
Six other people are in hospital for treatment to their injuries including a police officer, who is in a critical but stable condition.
The police are not looking for any other suspects
The incident has been contained and the wider public are not at risk, police said.
—————————————————————-
Joe
That you posing as a moderate again?
The Social Construction of
Whiteness: Racism by Intent,
Racism by Consequence
https://www.cwu.edu/diversity/sites/cts.cwu.edu.diversity/files/documents/constructingwhiteness.pdf
Joe says: at 5:31 pm
“In the last few days ive posted some things ive genuinely thought about.”
Are you saying you hadn’t put much thought into all the posts you’ve made prior to the last few days? 🙂
Sky news absolutely desperate for the Glasgow incident to be a “Terririst” occurence. However Police Scotland say “No”.
Sky reporter then states it may take the Police 24\48 hours to work out it was.
The snowflake virus is taking over Wings.
Even Joe is feeling hurt that nobody is taking his trolling seriously.
Meanwhile, in the real world
Gov. Greg Abbott orders Texas bars to close again and restaurants to reduce to 50% occupancy as coronavirus spreads
http://archive.is/yxm8i
WOS just came back on ???
Puir Joe, ain’t life a bitch ?
Miles O/T:
Well played Stephen Maguire on picking up £250,000 thanks to a 10-6 victory over Mark Allen in the Tour Championship final a wee while ago.
He also beat Trump in the semi. 🙂
Watched him over the last 3 days focused and slightly slimmer I thought.
Glad Wings back on-line.
Hurrah!
@Gary45%
And we found out WoS doesn’t use Apache.
Not hurt. Pointing out that it doesnt matter what you post, or how well considered it is, or what its about there will be people being dicks about it.
Its not just one ‘ilk’. In fact the mindfuck pretendy Scottish nationalists on here are the worst.
I was worried there. Thought the thought police had got you.
Welcome back.
Then whine like the pigs that they are when someone does it back.
Sorry if thats harsh, but after a long time reading and posting here most of you are ideologically rigid and kept in 2014 stasis. Which is evidently why the world passes and the pretendy Scottish nationalists get nowhere
My last comment was directed at Gary 45% at 11.21.
Just completed a Opinium Poll a very small section on UK politics.
2-Q’s only.
Which party did you vote for in last UK General election.
Which party will you for if a UK General election was tomorrow.
PS:
Radio 5 not going big time on Glasgow incident tonight.
Short headline news and a one minute interview (repeat from earlier on) BBC reporter talked about ‘tensions’ / ‘unionist-right wing groups’ in George Sq in last few days.
Petered out really….. big Auntie not pushing it!
Hope that the hosting company’s problem, which resulted in the temporary loss of WOS, made *some* on here reflect how precious this place is.
Maybe we’ll see less shitposting?
Joe claims he makes considered posting then proceeds to call everybody dicks and pretendy nationalists.
Does he have ANY degree of insight at all. Any?
I agree about the loo roll – this will worsen. You should be buying an extra everything when you can. Brexit is also coming. Invest in a couple of jerry cans and fill them.
F Mooney
Toilet paper and jerry cans, what are you filling them with?
Joe
You might think you’re on to a good thing here, but I’ve been trained to deal with the extreme-right. 😉
Right-wing populist parties endorse what can be recognised as the “arrogance of ignorance”
https://www.cairn.info/revue-mots-2017-3-page-165.htm#
Wings down? I thought maybe the REV had put down the “golem” of his own BTL – a plague on all your postings.
– here’s something interesting, about the games being played on us all
https://isgp-studies.com/liberal-cia-immigration#2020-black-lives-matter-goes-mainstream
– follow the money, just like with the tranny insanity
9. After 18 years in power, the Conservative Party had lost ground with the British electorate despite the country’s economic boom. The Tories succeeded by squashing the unions, trimming social-welfare programs, privatizing key state-owned industries, and promoting a free market for business. But since his election as Labour Party leader in the spring of 1994, Tony Blair had captured the public imagination by moving the Labour Party to the center. On nearly every economic issue, Blair’s party has co-opted Tory positions—pledging, for example, not to increase public spending or raise taxes. As a result, the Labour Party had held a consistent lead of some 20 points over the Tories in the months before the 1997 election.
https://caltonjock.com/2020/06/26/running-the-united-kingdom-from-beyond-the-grave-sir-jimmy-goldenballs-goldsmith-issue-1/
Goldsmith, together with his friend Rupert Murdoch’ was an integral member of the Reagan-Bush “secret government” apparat known as “Project Democracy.”
An official of the CIA’s retirees lobby, the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, who served in the CIA London station described Goldsmith as a “member of SIS (British Secret Intelligence Services) old-boys’ board of directors” and the private financier who handled British intelligence’s “Israel account.”
He also served on the board of media magnate Conrad Black’s Hollinger Corp. together with Henry Kissinger and ex NATO chief Rothschild related, Tory peer, Peter Lord Carrington.
Hollinger’s group acquired the Jerusalem Post, which became the official mouthpiece for Israel’s government.
https://caltonjock.com/2020/06/26/running-the-united-kingdom-from-beyond-the-grave-sir-jimmy-goldenballs-goldsmith-issue-2/
Aye, Wings was offline for a while.
I wonder what the reason was.
Colin Alexander
Mist001 said Sayonara in an unusual manner about an hour before the site went down.
Right, some folk might have thought I’m a bit nuts. Perhaps I am, but I’m also trained to fight right-wing populism and authoritarian legal practice. I have the perfect skill-set to defend Scotland’s democracy from British nationalism, and I’m trying to share these skills with the WOS readers. So I’m sorry if I’m a bit pushy, but I’m determined to do all I can to defend my human rights.
Full text.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0132-6
Its our old friend panic-buying
http://archive.is/F2Lwk
Oh the site is back being getting a Bad Gateway 502 for some reason , 502 usually means a server error or server down anyone else getting this ?
Robert graham
Yep.
It’s amazing how the British state operates , all news channels are conveniently missing a relevant fact in their reporting of today’s incident in Glasgow , this omission covers the Tory governments arse , no mention anywhere of the lock changes carried out by serco on behalf of Pritty Patel and the home office , every single news organisation bought and bloody well sold , B::d-reds even one
Cheers CBB I thought it was just me thanks
Was getting Shite Gateway 502 too.
Nice to see y’all back.
I see it cant have been a white person or a ‘right winger’ that was killing people in Glasgow then?
Its very funny when you watch the difference in attitudes.
Scenario 1: A white arsehole goes into a mosque and shoots people.
Narrative: within minutes its ‘white supremacy’ and ‘right wing’. ‘This must be stamped out’. Hand in all fire arms!
Scenario 2: middle eastern guy blows up a bunch of kids.
Narrative: we cant use this to make stereotypes. Don’t look back in anger. Pray for #. We are all one.
But – im not going to judge. Its clearly just coincidence that when you accept anyone in from anywhere who claims to be a refugee with any story they like that some of them turn out to be total fucking nutters.
Clearly there was a legitimate reason for going nuts and stabbing people? Perhaps the hotel toilet paper was too thin? Guy went to wipe his arse, fingers poked through and got all shitey, and he thinks ‘fuck this. Sumbdys getting chibbed’.
Could have been me or you really. Right?
Look at it this way – thank GOD it wasn’t a ‘white supremacist’ who did it. That would have been unbearable. Right?
Its a bit like the whole GRA thing and hate speech laws. Its a worthwhile sacrifice if people have to go to jail, get r*ped or stabbed. Its all part of our flowery diverse, tolerant fantasy country where such things matter but little in the face of your own righteous self satisfaction – unless they happen to you.
Don’t worry though. IF you do feel a little bit down, and the cracks in that sweet liberal progressive dreamscape start to appear, you can go to twitter and do your best impression of a foaming fucking lunatic at someone who has no control over what happens in Scotland.
As Ruglothian commented the temporary loss this evening of Wings does make you realise how the blog would be missed. Wings played a huge part in the referendum and continues to have a big part of the fight for independence.
Ditto all of the others who have attracted the fire of the police and prosecutors. Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Manny Singh are not being targeted for nothing.
Joe
Your positioning is so fucked up, I’m almost certain you’re either trained or reading from a script. So it is just as well I know how to deal with those who threaten liberal democracy.
Othering others: Right-wing populism in UK
media discourse on “new” immigration
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1257&context=teachlearnfacpub
Joe
Are you perhaps the ‘brains’ of Scotland’s alt-right?
The Rise of Right-wing Populism in
Europe and the United States
A Comparative Perspective
https://www.fesdc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/publications/RightwingPopulism.pdf
Re the Glasgow incident earlier today, why the fuck do reporters always ask stupid fucking questions to eye witnesses? They all do it. BBC, Sky, bloody radio, newspapers…
“The man was running towards you with six knives, an AK-47 and a chainsaw. How were you feeling?”
I want someone to stare the camera in the eye and say “I was fucking shitting myself!”
Or perhaps “Nnnnnngghh” (mind the Chewin’ the Fat sketch?)
Willie @ 1.27
Well said, I hope all who checked in, and those who worried,or even wondered…that YES had lost a resource..To
THINK, they’d lost *this* resource?
Remember… There are very few uncensored places anymore!
And.. My,My,My…how yer encouraged tae leave it!
@ Scozzie 5.32pm
It’s a fine aspiration right enough. Whether it will happen seems more open to question. For what it’s worth I do agree wholeheartedly with what Ian Brotherhood said above: I could never see myself recommending this as a forum for others to look at in the way I would have before.
Stu can of course do what he wants with his blog: his game, his ball. Given all he’s done for the cause he certainly deserves a break, and obviously some folk are quite happy seeing the BTL comments being wall to wall reposts and cut and paste efforts from Cameron to educate lesser mortals. Whether it’s appropriate in any given thread, or whether it really adds to anything other than his own sense of self importance is open to considerable doubt.
Seems to me this place should be a shop front for those in the Yes movement frustrated at the current situation. Given the current state of it, I’m surprised nobody has put the windaes in.
Joslyn Jane
Show us what you’ve got then, or jog om.
Sorry, that last one for Andy Ellis.
Andy Ellis
Come on then, you appear to know it all, though you don’t appear to want to share your skills, or substantiate your opinion.
Scientific Explanation
and Human Emancipation
https://www.radicalphilosophyarchive.com/issue-files/rp26_article2_scientificexplanation_bhaskar.pdf
Andy Ellis
As I expected, you’ve nothing but your own ego to show folks.
Resistance in Unjust Times: Archer, Structured Agency and the Sociology of Health Inequalities
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107758/
@CBB
As usual, you substantiate nothing. Endlessly cutting and pasting links to sources few people read proves nothing, it simply serves to clutter up the BTL discussion. You’re patently not capable of making the arguments yourself, or distilling them, you simply regurgitate screeds of stuff you insist backs up what passes for your argument.
Not only is it irritating, it’s boring. It still escapes me why you think hijacking this forum to tilt at your windmills is appropriate.
Andy Ellis
My argument is not worth much as I have zero social capital. That’s why I follow my training and refer to authoritative cultural sources. Folk don’t like to be told things and are far less likely to accept new perspectives, if they don’t find them out for themselves. Point them in the right direction though, and folk tend to educate themselves and so are be able to make better decisions.
If you don’t like my approach, I suggest you contact the RTPI and tell them their educational strategy is pants, and that you know better. 😉
———–
Full text.
Retroduction, reflexivity and leadership learning: Insights from a critical realist study of empowerment
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1350507619856244
CBB
You wrote “So I’m sorry if I’m a bit pushy, but I’m determined to do all I can to defend my human rights.“
… well, if posting links to irrelevant “opinions”, from people no one has ever heard of is you doing “everything you can to defend your human rights” … then wow … you are a very brave and committed soldier and, doubtless, you will single handedly change the course of history.
Alternatively, you could just be another blowhard, pseudo intellectual, numpty bigot?
Sensibledave
I’m not in the least surprised you would want to stick your nose where it doesn’t belong, Toryboy. Come to see what critical emancipation looks like? 😉
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/1-4020-8095-6_42
So the transactivists got the Rev taken off Twitter.
Now they’ve done the same with Graham Linehan.
If there’s one thing they hate more than women
Its men publicly supporting women.
“new cases are far lower than when lockdown came in”
This is factually wrong.
New cases are higher now than they were on 23 March.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Looking at the seven day rolling average for new cases and deaths shows the true picture.
“Factually wrong”
Not so and you know it. The current testing capacitity to detect new cases is far higher now than it was back on March 23rd.
Wish I could say this article was wrong but herd immunity it still the goal. I have some vulnerable family members and fear for them even during normal bad flu seasons.
And I heard about the writer of Father Ted. Perhaps since he’s better known nationally than Stuart it will create more impact that free speech does matter and that unless more people speak up no one will be allowed to speak except those promoting the trans orthodoxy. Here’s hoping it might create enough of a backlash to get the ball rolling.