The justice of blindness
The ramifications for Scottish politics of the failed stitch-up of Alex Salmond over false allegations of sexual abuse have hardly begun to be felt. The Parliamentary inquiry into the affair, which formally began yesterday and is due to start interviewing people in August, looks set to be swamped in material – or at least, whatever material hasn’t been quietly and conveniently disposed of already – and nobody knows how long it’ll take to reach any sort of conclusion.
It seems a safe bet that the SNP leadership will be praying it doesn’t do so before the 2021 Holyrood election, for all sorts of reasons – not least that it appears beyond any credible doubt that Nicola Sturgeon lied to Parliament about the investigation.
But while Salmond was found innocent on every charge, he continues to be attacked from behind a shield of anonymity by the accusers that the mainly-female jury declined to believe, supported and co-ordinated by organisations funded almost entirely by the Scottish Government and with very close personal links to it.
So when we were putting out our latest Panelbase poll, we thought we’d find out what the people of Scotland thought about it.
As recently as today, Brenna Jessie of Rape Crisis Scotland was continuing to attack and smear Salmond and anyone associated with him.
Rape Crisis Scotland, readers may recall, was behind the letter published in almost every Scottish newspaper just after the trial, which basically implied that Salmond was still guilty, and which was anonymously “signed” by all of the accusers.
Given that Salmond has alleged a conspiracy against him at the highest levels, such actions have given rise to questions about why Salmond wasn’t also given the benefit of anonymity before the verdict. And as it turns out those concerns are widely shared.
We firstly asked about anonymity for the accusers:
A large majority – over 4:1 – believed that the complainers should be protected before and during the trial. But that number dropped sharply regarding the aftermath of the trial, regardless of the verdict.
From a margin of 62 points, the figures supporting continued anonymity after the trial for the complainers dropped to 24 points if the accused was found guilty and 22 points if they were found innocent. While those are still clear majorities in favour, the size of the difference surprised us, as did the almost identical figures whether the defendant was found guilty or innocent.
And another outcome we weren’t expecting was that there was very little difference between men and women. Counter-intuitively, women were MORE likely to want the complainers to stay anonymous if the defendant was acquitted than if they were guilty, whereas men were more logically the other way round, but otherwise the numbers for men and women were consistently only a few percentage points apart.
We then asked if people thought the accused person should also have their identity kept secret, and the results were startling.
Very nearly as many people (75% vs 81%) thought that Salmond should have been protected by anonymity as the accusers, which isn’t too surprising as it seems a basic principle of fairness and equality given the huge damage that can be done by false claims of sexual assault. And an even higher number thought that that secrecy should have been maintained after the innocent verdict.
But what’s most striking about those figures is that significantly more people wanted Salmond’s identity to have been kept secret after the verdict than felt that way about the accusers.
Respondents wanted his anonymity to have been protected after he was cleared by a margin of 54 points – more than double the 24/22 points for the accusers. And again, perhaps unexpectedly, that view was held very strongly by women (a 48-point margin) as well as men (62 points).
The Scottish people appear to believe that Alex Salmond was done a serious injustice by being splashed all over the newspapers for months on end while innocent of any crime, often in articles which all but declared his guilt while picturing him alongside murderers, rapists and Nazi war criminals like Adolf Eichmann.
Salmond has also been left financially ruined by his defence, which ran to hundreds of thousands of pounds and which there’s no legal means to recoup. We asked a question about that too.
Here we found the biggest gender gap. Women thought he should have been able to recover his costs by a huge margin – two to one – but that figure was dwarfed by the almost 6:1 majority of men who felt the same way.
It’s abundantly obvious from these results that the continued vendetta being pursued against Alex Salmond by elements of the SNP and Scottish Government, and those paid by them, does not have the support of Scottish voters, whatever their sex.
(It also has interesting implications for the extremely one-sided prosecutions which are currently being conducted by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service with regard to the anonymity of the accusers. We’ve had no response to our most recent letters on the subject for almost a month.)
But we suspect that’ll do nothing to rein the ongoing smear campaign back in the coming months. The stakes are far too high for that.
Perhaps there are three million reasons why the smear campaign will continue….
Very interesting Stu, my faith in humanity is returning, a Holyrood committee set up to investigate the Scottish government shoddy handling of the harassment complaints made against Alex Salmond might see witnesses give evidence under oath, first up to give evidence is Scotland’s most senior Civil servant Leslie Evans.
This could be damaging for Sturgeon and her husband Peter Murrell both look like they’ll be on the the witness list.
Of course it’s all down to timing, if this damages Sturgeon, she might be forced to push for a second independence referendum to save the party and her career, but I see her looking for another out route as the SNP coffers are empty.
Not long ’till the next set of annual accounts are due. To what extent will the party be beholden to Short Money? Suckling on the teat of the British state. He who pays the piper ….
If innocent Mr Salmond decides to run for parliament, he will get my vote.
By the way I am still an SNP member.
The country needs his brains and political knowledge, hopefully the day will come and this time he will not be silenced.
Haste ye back Alex.
This whole sordid episode is a massive stain on the competence of the ScotGov, and on the leadership of the SNP.
I know that there’s many good folk in both these institutions who are as disgusted as the rest of us about the whole thing!
Judging by the way the members of the Parliamentary enquiry were conducting themselves yesterday – slowly, methodically, determinedly – this is going to go on and on and on.
To quote from Mr Attention-seeker himself, we’re in a “hellish limbo” (yes I’m aware it doesn’t make any logical sense – much like the rest of what he says).
This whole independence project is stuck fast because of the actions of the current FM.
The sooner she’s exposed the sooner she can be replaced!
The committee inquiry should shed light on every detail of this episode. The Chair is still demanding documents from the civil service, I hear. It will make riveting viewing in August.
There is little of interest in that linked newspaper account. All of the facts can be true without assigning guilt on any one protagonist. I do know, however that unionists are pinning their hope on getting rid of Nicola Sturgeon because she met with Alex Salmond. I don’t see that they have much of a case but let’s see what happens.
I continue to be horrified at the treatment of Alex. Plus mark and Craig.
If Alex needs a crowdfunder please tell him to launch one. We are keenly aware that it wasn’t just him they were trying to polish off – it was also the independence movement. Who knows? The dark forces in the snp might have unwittingly contrived to pull themselves down instead. Hoisted by their own petard?
First law of politics – never, ever underestimate Alex Salmond.
It will be interesting to watch the coverage of Nicola Sturgeon with regard to this. She ought to get a very easy ride from the Scottish media, since there seems to be real panic amongst the commentariat at the thought of Joanna Cherry at the helm instead. English press will probably go for it though.
Champing at the bit for unknown unknowns.
Will Eck haud off publishing for the enquiry?
When it all falls apart, I doubt there will be a wake for the Woke!
Anonymity should be allowed for both defendants (unless proven guilty) and complainants (unless guilty of perverting the course of justice).
My argument is down to social media. It can be brutal, particularly Twitter. The trolls on there go after people. And the consequences can be awful.
I would be surprised if there is an anti Salmond campaign, no doubt he has upset people over the years, including myself, but that passed when he became First Minister. As a member of the SNP for 54 years – Gie’s peace!
Alex., was found to be innocent of the charges against him so surley those who are still trying, to belittle him are openly guilty of slander and they in turn should be charged ??? The very fact that the establishment went out to ruin him proves he is the right man to lead us to our freedom and the powers that be are terrified of that happening but in their panic to ruin him they have made him more of s threat to them but the honest intelligent people of Scotland can see right through their ploys haste ye back Alex cometh the hour cometh the MAN .,
Calling for witnesses to give evidence under oath at the Holyrood Committee is Tory MSP Donald Cameron and our old bridge loving buddy the LibDem MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton.
Cameron cites, Section 26 of the Scotland act, and rule 12 of Holyrood’s Standing orders, committee can question witnesses under oath.
Jackie Baillie wants the investigation to take place in the Holyrood chamber, to keep social distancing in place. The investigation will take place after the Summer recess.
The cabal who plotted against Mr Salmond may cost us indyref2.
>>Counter-intuitively, women were MORE likely to want the complainers to stay anonymous if the defendant was acquitted than if they were guilty,
Is that a surprise though? One of the big fears about taking a sexual assault accusation to court is the fear of not being believed.
It is inconceivable that Leslie Evans did not inform Nicola Sturgeon she was going after Alex.
It is beyond belief that the rules were changed specifically to charge Alex.
Someone at the very top of the SNP, was involved in trying to put an end to any credibility Alex had with voters.
I strongly suspect Mr M had a hand in this, but Nicola just also have known.
Anonymity for everyone. There is time enough to feast on the bones if guilty.
New poll shows that Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party – with former SNP leader Alex Salmond as leading candidate – is set to win 23 MSP seats and become second-largest party in Scottish Parliament
See full results from Survation opinion poll;
https://tinyurl.com/y8e37ws4
Read. Learn.
http://www.SIRP.Scot
Bloody marvelous Stu, great article . There is something on the horizon, I can whiff it , dont know what it is . It maybe just my vivid imagination.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven, as many have said previously.
Innocent people really need anonimity, when accused of sexual offences, just as the accusers get. Otherwsie, as we have seen in other cases, vindictive individuals can make accusations in the full knowledge that their identity will be hidden, while the accused will have their reputation trashed in the media –
I look forward to purchasing a copy of Mr.Salmond’s new book.
From everything I have seen recently, their is something quite, quite rotten right at the very, very top of the Scottish government. From idiotic, unwanted gender laws that defy science, are homophobic and remove women’s rights, to unwanted, draconian and frankly repressive ‘hate crime’ laws, that will completely undermine freedom of speech, artistic freedom and potentially, freedom of thought and discourse in Scotland.
In fact, I very much look forward to reading Mr. Salmond’s new book. I fully expect the Scottish government to seek an interim interdict to block publication – can’t have the TRUTH coming out can we. But then Mr Salmond is a canny man, and I fully expect he will anticipate such obfuscation by the liars at the very top of the Scottish government.
For those who still seek to denigrate Alex Salmond, he was cleared of all charges in the high court in Edinburgh, by a mainly female jury, and under a female judge. He is an innocent man, and I do hope that given time, he will take those who still try to impune him to the effing cleaners.
I wished the Rev had asked if the accusers identity should still be protected if they refuse to accept the verdict of the jury and continue to slur the accused.
jfngw,
Exactly. This is now a serious problem, with people of influence still to this day trying to suggest that although Mr. Salmond was cleared of all charges, that somehow, magically, that verdict can quite uniquely in Scots law be completely ignored.
Mr. Salmond was cleared of every single charge.
Terry at 0454pm,
Totally agree, especially regarding the crowdfunder, if it is required.
It’s very hard on the brain.
I will be happy when we have the FULL story.
If anyone is found to be behind this they must be held fully to account .
But until we know all the facts we just have to watch in disbelief.
I can see us snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and all that stuff. This I fear could damage our campaign by splitting the yes crowd.
We must not allow that to happen.
I may be wrong, but I suspect the hand of HM Government somewhere buried in the plot here.
If it’s correct that Alex has been financially ruined – he need only ask (or someone credible on his behalf) and Yessers will respond in great numbers.
We will not abandon him
@JasonSmoothpiece, if the Yes crowd splits as a result of this then so be it.
Can’t help but think of Uncle Fester every time I see Mr M.
Which is really not very fare to Uncle Fester!!
On the money Stu as usual.
`Swedish researchers report good progress with a corona treatment that uses blood plasma from people who have survived the illness to transfer antibodies into those still fighting the infection.`
told them to try that 4 months ago.
Another great article Rev, just going to read it. 😉 LOL! But i have read all the comments up to this. Just wanted to get this in before the usual few completely take over the thread and chase everyone else away.
They reckon we more or less make up our minds about folk within seconds of meeting or seeing them and then as we get to know them more we either reinforce that first thought or occasionally we realise we got it utterly wrong.
That pic at top of this article somehow reinforces my dislike for Murrell, the chrome-dome one. Aye! I’m judging but I’d put money on him having a collection of wigs and fancy flowered summer frocks in his wardrobe and a collection of stolen toilet signs, just like some used to do with car badges in the 80s. If he ever turns up with a ‘Ladies’ sign chained around his neck I’m emigrating.
Don’t know what it is but I’ve never had any positive feelings about him. Now! Where’s that article? 🙂
Noticed some tweets suggesting the enquiry will damage Indyref2? Really? this indyref2 that’s been stalled during the period when the enemy are not only at their weakest, but at their most brazen? Ha.
You know, I concern over some of our MPs in London when Scotland gains its independence, what the hell are they going to do? Just look at poor Paul Sweeney – what a horror-show for those with feet under the table.
Seriously, I wonder if Ms Evans, with some help from a more experienced and treacherous political machine, has been smart enough to manoeuvre our FM into a non-recoverable corner? It certainly appears that our FM, no slouch herself in the astute dept, might be forced into the realms of ‘economical with the truth’ and if so, the question to be posed will be; will she think hard about resigning?
But, she’s popular, not only among Indy folk but also with non-indy folk and those who protesteth too much but are happy with the status quo.
Furthermore, we live in an age when skulduggery exposed can be ignored, not answered, carry-on regardless. Perhaps so, but the Scots genie long-ago left the bottle and a nation, and the bairns of that nation, still want independence.
Intriguing times.
Another brilliant post from the Rev.
It must be considered by even the most loyal NS supporters that she is fast becoming Kryptonite to the independence cause.
NS will, to save her skin, push for indy ref 2. This will divert attention away from her appalling involvement in the Alex Salmond situation.
The section 30 will be granted at that point by wastemonster as sturgeon leads a totally divided SNP in the referendum.
This is exactly what the british state wants and will be their best chance of scuppering independence.
Two referendums in 10 years with a narrow No victory will consign Scotland to the status of Quebec. If we allow it!
Be under no illusions, the british state secret service have been plotting this course for years!
Alex Salmond remains, the biggest threat to the union. Sturgeon will be expected to stop that threat, hence her involvement in discrediting Alex. And her pursuit of divisive nature denying policies.
Sturgeon Must be removed from the SNP leadership. Her utter subservience to the british state when an open goal of independece is before us, means we cant delay.
Her tone of meek acceptance of westminster rule, and cringe worthy pleading of more powers whilst never even mentioning Independence is damaging our cause.
Sturgeon was helped to where she is by the brit secret service. They knew that they could not discredit Alex as Independence supporters would see the set up and harden their Independence support.
So… they groom a young ruthless power hungry SNP member and help facilitate her position of power to FM.
Then they want pay back. Alex reputation being the price.
They own sturgeon!!
We need to re own the SNP!
I’m still going with my cunning “martyr” plan.
Regardless of NS involvement if any with big Ecks trial and I sincerly hope she or her man have no involvement whats over but we cannot and must not let the Yes movement and the SNP movement split into two camps, because if we do we are truly fucked and independence wont be seen in my lifetime.
@Lothianlad
I think you need more of a plan than just removing NS, who is going to be the leader, there is not that many candidates in reality.
It can’t be AS as he isn’t even a member as far as I’m aware at present and even if he is is not in any parliament.
It can’t be Joanna Cherry until she is a MSP, the FM needs to be party leader or the person taking on the FM role will be ripped to shreds every week at FMQ’s always having to defer to someone not in the parliament.
As for NS being a MI5 plant, a bit tin foil hat, could she just not be ruthless and single minded on her own account, or are you suggesting that women cannot be like that?
As leader of the SNP, the buck stops with Mrs. Murrell. She knew damned well what was going on, on her watch, otherwise that’s a dereliction of duty.
As many people here are already aware, that woman has zero credibility in my eyes but there’s no need for her to display her lack of credibility to the world and that looks a distinct possibility now.
Sadly though, I believe any Parliamentary inquiry will be a whitewash and she and her husband will merrily skip off, feeling fully vindicated and with even more power and sense of emboldenment than they hold now.
As for the trial, I believe that the complainants should keep their anonymity even now the trial has ended. As I’ve said before, there is nothing to be gained by knowing who they are unless people intend to go round bricking their windows, spitting at them in the street and all this. Knowing who they are is just a licence for gossips to say ‘Telt ye, ah kent she wis wan o’ rem’. Absolutely pointless.
By the same token though, these complainants managed to bring a case to trial which the defendant was proven to be innocent of all charges apart from one, which was not proven.
By that measure, the complainants and their acolytes should accept the verdict, accept that their case failed and they should move on otherwise they’ll destroy themselves. To keep complaining about the outcome and keep attacking the target is self destructive in the long term.
In short, the whole affair is Scotlands shame.
I’m going to hold my opinion on NS until I see the evidence (or the evidence I’m allowed to see anyway). But there are two areas where there has been total failure yet nobody has taken responsibility for these failures and stepped down.
The first was a unfair procedure within the civil service that ended up cost us £500k, the head of this should have stepped down immediately. As far as I’m concerned I have no faith in the civil service in Scotland until this person is gone.
The second is the decision to prosecute AS, the COPFS is expected to bring prosecutions that have likelihood of success. to bring so many that all failed brings into doubt the competence of this service. With such a high profile failure you would expect the head of the service to resign.
@jfngw at 8:05 pm
Minded to agree with what you say.
One thing that many others will also have no doubt noted is the question as to why the MSM hasn’t made serious SNP / ScotGov Bad out of these two matters.
They’ll run SNP / ScotGov Bad for weeks fueled on just a deid doo in a hospital and a bit of ice on a bridge, yet served these two succulent juicy chunks on a plate, they seem particularly quiet…
Suspicious cat is… VERY SUSPICIOUS! 🙂
@ Mark Whittet 5.54pm
What makes you think Alex would join your party?
SIRP hasn’t exactly got a high profile, so isn’t it more than a tad presumptuous on your part?
We don’t know if Stu will launch a Wings party, or if Collette Walker’s ISP will take off, but the smart thing would be for one unified pro-indy list party to deny unionists seats (and stop them going to the frightful Scottish Greens).
The polling numbers are impressive, but shouldn’t you be joining Alex’s party, not the other way round?
Dan & Jane
Me too.Stinks to high heaven .Same thing goes with gra & hate bill.Not a peep out of tories,labour and fibdems.
All very weird.
Lol Jane? wtf . jfngw
@Dan
Because they are not controlled directly by the Scotgov, the civil service is a Westminster function and the COPFS is independent of the Scotgov. If the Scotgov was found to be directly influencing the COPFS then it would be right across the MSM.
In fact if NS had tried to block any civil service investigation it would almost certainly backfired and the MSM would have had a field day claiming she was protecting AS. That’s why I’m holding my opinion for the evidence because as a leader you are sometimes caught between a rock and a hard place.
@robbo says:
23 June, 2020 at 8:50 pm
Dan & Jane
“Me too.Stinks to high heaven .Same thing goes with gra & hate bill.Not a peep out of tories,labour and fibdems.
All very weird.”
Could it be that interviews don’t start until August, so I’ll assume three months to publish findings (wild guess I have no idea). That brings us nicely into late November, just as the seasonal flu kicks off, and possibly a spike of COVID-19. Then we hit December with localised lockdowns and COVID once again dominates the headlines, conveniently bumping Brexit to page ten.
Bit of a wild conspiracy theory I know.
“unionists are pinning their hope on getting rid of Nicola Sturgeon”
They’re really not, you know. They’re desperate for her to stay.
“See full results from Survation opinion poll;”
That link contains no results whatsoever.
@ jfngw.
Removing the biggest threat to Independence is the best plan to get Independence,
As for tin foil hat, of course I cant prove NS is under the control of MI5, but given how the operate and how Sturgeon has sailed up the ranks of the SNP and the way she has betrayed the Independence cause, not to mention the disgusting involvement in AS situation, I think it’s a fair bet they are pulling her strings.
As for your ridiculous comment suggesting I’m suggesting g women cant be like that… away and Biel yir head!
I never mentioned anything about gender. I’ll leave that to the nature deniers
They’re really not, you know. They’re desperate for her to stay.
I’ve heard the view expressed by well placed SiU people who were certain, and satisfied, that she would be “gone by April”.
That’s my evidence. What’s yours?
.
I would commend others to consider writing to the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator…
.
The Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR)
2nd Floor
Quadrant House
9 Riverside Drive
Dundee
DD1 4NY
Dear Commissioner,
FORMAL COMPLAINT: BRENNA JESSIE
REGISTERED CHARITY: RAPE CRISIS SCOTLAND
With regret I must formally register a complaint in regard to the above charity/spokesperson.
Without doubt, this charity does vital work.
But Brenna Jessie appears to have come close to infracting the rules concerning political campaigning by charities registered in Scotland. There may also be reputational damage to the charity.
A female judge and a majority female jury found the Rt. Hon. Alex Salmond NOT GUILTY of the false rape allegations libelled against him. FACT.
Yet, Brenna Jessie appears to know better than a highly qualified and learned judge and Brenna Jessie may be in contempt of court, which is, of course, a matter for another organisation to deal with.
My complaint is the harassing of an innocent man by a zealous person who disrespects the verdict of a court and has her own agenda which I allege is at best, bringing the registered charity she purports to represent into disrepute and at worst compounding a matter of contempt of court, charities commission law and related statutes.
The purpose of my missive to you herewith, is to ask you to discharge your legal duties and audit the documents relating to various outbursts, letters, media campaigns in relation to the above named person and others working in concert at that charity to exact Brenna Jessie’s own version of justice upon a man that has been found NOT GUILTY in a court of law.
I allege that Brenna Jessie and the charity may have exceeded either or both your guidelines in respect of charities and political campaigns.
My request herewith is to ask you now audit and inquire into the disturbing matters as narrated in the following article as per the reporting in that website that reflects upon Jessie and her charity that is registered with you?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-justice-of-blindness/
Given the circumstances, please can you acknowledge safe receipt of this communication?
Thank you
Alastair and Susan Stuart
XX XXXXXXXXXXX, XXXX,
XXXXXXX,
XXXX XXX.
————————————————————–
I would respectfully ask other Wingers to consider writing/emailing the charity commission in Dundee make it absolutely clear to he Commissioner at the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR) that there are a materially significant number of people concerned about the integrity of the charity registration process and those with questionable motives who abuse their position and bring their charity into disrepute due to a collegiate effort to help a fake-rape group of politically motivated liars and thereby cause horrendous collateral damage to those men and women who have actually been raped. This is because Rape Crisis Scotland’s support of Fake-Rape allegers will make it VERY difficult to bring genuine cases supporting those whom this charity gets a lot of money to support.
You can email the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator at info@oscr.org.uk
https://tinyurl.com/rcs-concerns
@Lothianlad
To quote a Jeggit tweet:
“Why does it strike me that women are often treated as the eye candy of political parties, only to be ejected if they act like real politicians? ”
I don’t remember anyone suggesting AS could have been a MI5 plant when he lost a referendum. It’s never a good look to suggest women must be under someone’s control when they take decision’s you don’t agree with.
You haven’t actually mentioned a plan just an ejection.
With the key events happening early on in NS reign, and giving her the benefit of believing her primary motives for joining the party were genuine, could Evans endeavours explain the shift, and define the state we find ourselves in?
A badly compromised leader, of a hari kiri cult, dependant on the MSM for camouflage.
Who doesn’t smell the stench of Westminster behind this?
@ defo – yes IMO – Evans could easily explain what’s going on. She is, after all, employed by Mark Sedwill – ex British spook, now Head of the Civil Service. She is said to have gone to London every Wednesday to meet up with her 1st Division chums.
The entire structure of the civil service in Scotland is suspect. Of course, that doesn’t absolve politicians of wrong doing – if they have done wrong. But it can explain how they may be set up and trapped – damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Cui bono?
Has there been a price put on the investigation and trial of Alex,
must be in the millions,
the lame duck prosecuting lawyer Alex Prentice must of had an unlimited amount of tax payers cash to waste,
i mean he wouldnae come cheap per hour,
although after his spectacular failure in losing the unlosable case his fees must have dropped considerably,
what a chump.
@ jfngw,
Jings….you really haven’t read it properly at all.
Go back and try again!!
And just for the record…it Wasnt AS who lost us a referendum, it was that slimey efitorcof the daily record and his famous Vow!! The one Sturgeon promoted, Remember?? !
Don’t want to comment on what is likely to happen because I don’t know, but I will say that much of it doesn’t make sense. What I would take just a small issue with is the insistence on saying the the jury was female-heavy. All studies and evidence have shown that women-heavy juries are less likely to convict alleged perpetrators of sexual crimes than male-heavy ones. Women are harder on their own sex, I’m afraid, much as it pains me to say it. It is also fact that juries of any kind tend to find alleged perpetrators of sexual crimes guilty less often than judges sitting alone.
Had Mr Salmond been found guilty, it is very likely that Nicola Sturgeon would have fallen, too. That’s where the Holyrood conspiracy theory falls down unless it was instigated by powers outwith Holyrood, and the women used as pawns in a bigger game. That some in Holyrood might have wanted Mr Salmond off the scene does not mean, necessarily, that they were not used, too, by the same powers playing the bigger game or that certain players in Holyrood, not the FM herself, were not knowingly implicated. I am not at all sure that the SNP has been not infiltrated, as Sinn Fein was in NI. It would go some way to explaining the present inertia and paralysis, promoted as advice to the FM.
The other thing is that, once the procedure was put in place, and the claims made, there was simply no way that the police could let the matter lie, even if the procedure was found to be flawed, as it was, in the civil case. That, in itself, would have been illegal. However, the substance of the case proved to be so weak that it should, perhaps, have been dropped for lack of evidence as so many such cases are.
Oh, yes, it would have been almost impossible to hold this trial after the civil trial with Mr Salmond’s identity withheld.
They were after the two of them. They thought they had a slam dunk on both way back before the court case started in our own wee parliament. The yoons were salivating they had finally crushed indy with both Alex & Nicola done for.
They will end up with no slam dunk,but near misses. Yoons must try harder.
It was Leslie Evans who drew up the new guidelines for pursuing sexual assault/harassment cases. She added former ministers to the list of possible suspects. Nicola Sturgeon may well have signed off on that quite innocently – specially if she had no expectation that her old mentor, Alex Salmond, would be in the frame. After all, she had worked with Alex for years.
A month later, Alex Salmond was named as a suspect.
Cui bono?
Sorry to buck the trend here but while I have great regard for Alex the ‘conspiracy’ accusations are all supposiiton with litle or no substance. In my mind Sturgeon had little or no option but not to allow criminal proceedings. To do other wise would have further alienated women who are the most resistant to Independence. I also fail to see what motive the SNP ‘leadership’ would have in this. Salmond had long since self abdicated from active Party involvememnt and was hardly a threat to Sturgeon so from that perspective I see no possible reason why they would be implicated in any conspiracy against him. As far as ‘dividing’ the SNP support has never been higher and by not pursuing a section30 order would involve years in the courts if we decided Yes by other means.
@Capella
Much more likely is Westminster wanted AS blocked because he would not be as supine as NS when it came to driving for independence. Suggest to NS the rules on sexual matters be back dated, how could she refuse without it looking like defending the SNP and its former leader. Outmanoeuvred or blind-sided here?
The Scotgov is always compromised with the civil service under WM control, they are working for their masters not ours.
I’m not agreeing that enough has been done to further independence, too many mandates have been wasted. I still hope there is method in the madness but I’m slowly losing hope.
@Lorna,
The real issue is that It was revealed by Craig Murray that the SNP hierarchy had “banked” the women’s complaints for future use. Why would they do that unless it was to make sure they could neuter Salmond ?. That was the game.
Unfortunately Leslie Evans also had a gameplan and involved the police in an investigation, blowing apart the plan to keep the incriminating complaints for future use
Close Capella, but I see her more the snake tempting Eve, ‘look how i can protect you, we control everything *,and it’s all deniable ‘
There’s no way NS didn’t know what was going on. She may not have instigated the process, is about as far as my credulity stretches.
*almost, but then a Jury wasn’t part of the plan.
The plan?
Finish Eck
Compromise NS
Split party
@ jfngw – Even more likely is that the British state wanted to take down Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, Craig Murray and WoS all in one clever but entirely normal (for spooks) manoeuvre. After all, it’s what they do every day and have done for centuries.
@Lothianlad
No I’m pointing out the madness of seeing a conspiracy in everything, you can throw that up for any event. I invented the AS one because why not, if there is one theory why not another.
I understood your comment, it just wasn’t very good and lacked any evidence.
Robbo
Eck was lining up for a go at a seat at Holyrood.
This Baldrickian plan was to force him not to.
The criminal justice thing wasn’t in the original plan, it only came after the civil case Eck won.
Evan’s is quoted as saying that they had lost the battle, but would win the war. !
o/t How strange to live in a country where the main items on the TV news are not relevant to Scotland and are in fact quite contrary to the lockdown rules that apply here.
Have the numpties a very good excuse for saying they are confused?
@Capella
Well if that was the case it has become their Bay of Pigs event and they overreached themselves.Independence is as strong or stronger than when they started this. It’s never a great idea to try and be too clever, most politicians are not as bright as they believe they are.
As for the spooks, their plans can only work if you are not aware of them, I don’t believe the Yes movement is that naive.
Agreed on the accused getting their lawyers’ fees repaid by the state if found innocent. I own my own home outright but I’m also on Universal Credit. If falsely accused I would not be eligible for legal aid despite not being able to fund mortgage repayments which would be my only means of paying for representations so I would be forced to sell my only home where I have lived now for over 20 years.
How could that possibly be fair?
@Capella, 9.58
“Nicola Sturgeon may well have signed off on that quite innocently ”
Capella, the FM is a qualified solicitor. How did she come to approve an unlawful and unfair process? Incompetence? That unlawful process cost Scottish taxpayers around £500k. On the basis of cost alone, the FM should have asked the drafter of the unfair process to resign. In fact, the FM later extended the drafter’s contract.
I remember reading the story of a woman who was imprisoned during the Stalin terror. She said in prison, if only Stalin knew what was going on, he would set us free… there has surely been a fascist coup here, we must write to Stalin…
Another woman said to her: “Fool! Don’t you understand that HE is behind all of this?! He and no one else!”
@ jfngw – interesting that you mention the Bay of Pigs. That event triggered the assassination of JFK. Nearly 60 years later the majority of people have no idea that it was a coup d’etat carried out by the CIA, the spooks. It was done in plain sight – the evidence is overwhelming. But, if you don’t control the MSM, you don’t control the narrative. Simple as that.
@cirsium
NS did not sign off on the AS investigation, just the process of backdating sexual cases, as far as I’m aware she had no knowledge of the AS accusations at this point. The unlawful part was purely down to the civil service and it’s head in Scotland. Even if NS was then informed about NS it was too late.
As I said earlier was NS duped, if so she is unlikely to admit it, a FM cannot be seen to have been made a fool of, it’s career ending.
@Capella
I can’t go down JFK conspiracy stuff, a lot of it is nonsense. Particularly the Oliver Stone film, good movie but mostly fiction.
I get the impression Leslie Evans is at the heart of much activity aimed at undermining Scottish democracy. Was it not Evans who instructed the Scottish civil service to stop following best practice, in relation to a legal respect for the economic, social, and cultural rights of biological women? Whoever is responsible, they have instructed Scotland’s civil service to adopt a legal position that is compatible with contemporary British constitutionalism, but not international human rights law.
@jfngw
I understood your comment, it just wasn’t very good and lacked any evidence.
Dont be ridiculous! The British secret service infiltrated the highest ranks of the IRA.
You have to be an extremely slow learner not to see the connection in trying to infiltrate and influence the SNP which us a far more serious threat to their union.
It’s not a conspiracy theory to look behind the vale and see their lies and deceit.
Try reading Stus post the betrayer, and some of craig Murray’s posts to help educate yourself.
@ cirsium – having a sexual harassment policy is not unlawful, in fact, it is probably mandatory.
If you are the chief executive of an organisation and your secretary tells you that there is complaint of sexual harassment against a former employee, and the rules have just changed to encompass former employees – what do you do?
a) tell your secretary to bury the evidence?
b) say you can’t interfere with a legal process?
c) say the process doesn’t apply. The complainants should contact the police?
What do you think would be on the front page of every tabloid for weeks if anything other than b) had been followed?
@lothianlad
Educate myself, are you Mhairi Hunter by any chance. It’s the fallback position when people don’t agree with you.
Of course there are intelligence services working inside the SNP, but there are more likely candidates than NS. Next you’ll be telling me Gerry Adams is a MI5 plant since he has not achieved a united Ireland, and he’s been at it even longer.
@ jfngw – re JFK – really? Have you read Jim Garrison, District Attorney of New Orleans, account of what happened? It is so well documented that I find it entirely credible.
If you read about the CIA under the directorship of Allen Dulles you can easily accept that such a right wing, fascist organisation would be fully committed to assassinating JFK.
After all, they assassinated plenty of other inconvenient individuals such as Patrice Lamumba, Robert Kennedy and MLK.
Also, the British and American spooks are one and the same organisation. See Edward Snowden’s accounts. Let’s not be naive.
@Capella
It’s not naive to not agree with you.
If you want to believe a conspiracy there is plenty to read that confirms your view.
There is also plenty that dispels it, try ‘Conspiracy Theorist Lie’ film.
It wasn’t MI 5 or Lesley Evans who airbrushed Alex from the snp website nearly 18 months ago. That could only have been Nicola and Peter murrell.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1074599/scotland-latest-news-alex-salmond-SNP-website-nicola-sturgeon/amp
Wake up peeps and smell the coffee. And think who the British state fears. Hint. It’s not Nicola.
Here’s something that’s puzzled me since the court case. All these women bring complaints about sexual harrassment by Alex Salmond, but why did he never try it on with Mrs. Murrell? They were very close at one time and I think it’s fair to say that the opportunity would have presented itself.
So, why not with Mrs. Murrell?
Unless she’s also one of the complainants or she does indeed, bat for the other side.
I dont plan to tell you anything. I post on this forum to debate and learn other folks opinions. The intelligent folk that is.
You seem to have slipped through the net though and ended up here.
Whos Mhari hunter?
I could not give a toss if you dont agree with me, the truth is still the truth.
And how the heck do you know GA is not?
Come to the table with something sensible rather than a playground he said she said argument.
Get an education.
Addressing the FM as Mrs. Murrell, is pure misogyny btw.
@ jfngw – I didn’t say it was naive to disagree with me. But it is naive to think that the security state – the praetorian guard – doesn’t act to protect the interests of their sponsors. That’s not us btw. That’s corporations like the oil barons, the hedge fund managers, the bankers, agribusiness, pharma, landowners and aristocrats.
Watch out folks jfngw has watched a film! Lol..
Oh that’s a good one, my sides are sore. 🙂
I watched the first episode of this drama a full half hour episode available on u/tube , not sure if comments are still open , but give it a try I think it’s titled Committee for the investigation of harassment sorry no link but do some work yourself ha ha .
Anyway if this investigation follows the same theme it looks like it will take about 10 years to report back , and given their preferred format of taking evidence in private it will be truly fkn amazing if the whole truth ever comes out , or escapes more like due to a mistake ,
Why oh why has secrecy any place in this inquiry , we pay the wages and will pay all the costs yet we can’t see the evidence not fkn Happy , Cover up ,White Wash and saving blushes and Careers spring to mind, despite what a lot of us believe this will be a Westminster controlled production
@Lothianlad
Who is Mhairi Hunter! Are you sure you are an independence supporter or know anything about the SNP.
Educate me then, show me the evidence that is ‘the truth’. All I see is your vivid imagination 2 + 2 = 5.
I should have added tech because that’s their biggest asset atm.
@ CBB 11.15 pm – spot on. But he knows that already.
@mist001, yep your right, she does indeed bat for the other side.
Sharny Dubs wrote on 23 June, 2020 at 6:51 pm:
“Can’t help but think of Uncle Fester every time I see Mr M. Which is really not very fare to Uncle Fester!!”
I see a Chick Young & Tam Cowan love child.
Best to wait for the outcome of the investigation. Out of interest, anyone know how long it should take?
@capella,
Your right… if those who sneer at so called conspiracies would take one simple line from the film they mention JFK… who has the power to organise it, who benefits, who has the power to cover it up??
All fingers point to the establishment and the control they exert.
Good posts, keep it up.
@ Lothianlad – the Oliver Stone film was based 100% on Jim Garrisons’ investigations. Of course, it had to leave a lot out, otherwise it would have been 20 hours long . Oliver Stone is not an idiot. Jim Garrison had a cameo part in the film. He played Judge Warren of the CIA managed Warren committee.
Worth a watch. “Back and to the side”!
At her… yep I joined the SNP one year before Sturgeon. Cant educate a dunce. If you think 2 + 2 = 5 then I wish you well.
Ps.. congratulations on completing your basket making class at the happy club. Well done 😉
Well I did say last week that I would pop onto Wings to see how mad things have got. [Full disclosure – contributer to Wings £250 and local distributor of WBBs].
The Unionist lurkers will be very pleased at the continuing accusations against our FM. WITH NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. [It’s the civil service in Scotland, you dolts]
Could it be coincidence that Stu’s vitriol is peaking just as the FM’s popularity cf Covid etc is eclipsing all Unionists before her? I believe we should be told.
Most people seem to think that Leslie Evans would be capable of arbitrarily changing the Civil Service code on her own initiative. They may well be right, especially if no such change was made to the Civil Service code of conduct simultaneously for the rest of the UK.
If no such national change was made ,why did Nicola Sturgeon agree to change the Scottish approach?
@capella,
Yep a great film, based on real events. Oswald was a pasty indeed.
Not like sturgeon who is front and centre for the state and tried to get an innocent man out of her way.
@Capella
Yes these people will protect their assets but it’s a mighty leap to assassination of their president. And it was not a particularly foolproof plan to do it in Dallas in public and at a distance, there would have been more effective methods.
There as been numerous documentaries over the years on this subject, after watching many of them (must be at least 5) I came to the conclusion it wasn’t a conspiracy, you are free to disagree.
The one I mentioned earlier takes particular aim at the Oliver Stone versions and goes through each of the facts to disprove many of his accusations. It’s a bit too long and the part at the end is a waste of time but most of it is interesting.
Beaker says: at 11:27 pm
“Best to wait for the outcome of the investigation. Out of interest, anyone know how long it should take?”
Word on da street is Chilcot has checked his diary and appears to be available for the next decade or two… 🙂
“well placed SiU people who were certain, and satisfied”
Oh, I’m sorry, my bad – I thought we were talking about sane intelligent people, not complete fucking zoomers.
@ jfngw – are you suggesting that JFK died of natural causes while motoring long Elm St, Dallas (a last minute change of route btw)?
I don’t know how old you are. But I actually remember those events. I also remember the shooting of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and Patrice Lumumba.
I thought we were talking about sane intelligent people, not complete fucking zoomers
Not zoomers. I can’t say who my source is. So we’ll have to leave it at that.
Here’s a summary of evidence considered by HMG, re. the anonymity of those charged with r4pe, in case anyone is interested. Full text.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/publications/research-and-analysis/moj-research/anonymity-rape-research-report.pdf
And here’s another opinion at no extra charge. 😉
Innocent until proven guilty? Sexual offences and the anonymity of defendants
https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/uploads/assets/3e9ab23e-7b5b-4699-945e04a9746922cd/15hannahdaly-essay.pdf
See the sturgeon witches definitely come out at midnight lol
Rev. I think I may have missed a naughty word. I’ve posted HMG’s legal consideration on anonymity, but it’s stuck in moderation.
The rifle that Oswald used and absolute 100% marksman accuracy he would have needed to get 3 shots off in that time is impossible. He may have fired a shot but he didn’t fire the 3 shots.
There was another shooter.
Cmonindy @11.37
Well…with such a background and pedigree disclosed!
Would you care to tell us when and about what the Rev has ever lied to us?
How confident are you he’s got this wrong?
Because while it might suit the British Nationalists who play here for him to be right it doesn’t please the Indy support much either and has probably come at a cost to him!
So please demonstrate any time the Rev published a lie?
@ robbo – quite. Jim Garrison subpeonaed the Zabruder film, a home movie recording the event, which was kept secret for years. The fatal shot was fired from the front of the cavalcade. Hence “Back and to the side”. Kennedy’s head was forced backwards by the shot.
There was another gunman. Therefore, there was a conspiracy.
If the S.N.P. hasn’t been filtrated, somebody, a very senior somebody, must have a P45 coming their way. All political parties and organisations are routinely infiltrated, and useful-idiots cultivated.
@Capella
I’m almost 66 so I have seen many versions of this. I haven’t suggested anything. He was shot from behind by a high velocity hardened bullet, it blew his brain out the front of his head. There was a small bullet hole at the rear and the front of his skull on one side was blown out. You can actually see his brain coming out of the front of his head in the Zapruder film, more so if you see the zoomed in version. The back and to the left stuff is nonsense, it’s a muscular contraction of the back due body shock, plus the effect of his front of his head being blown out.
I watched his funeral, on the BBC probably not live due to the time difference I suspect. The first ever episode of Dr Who was the next day after the shooting if I remember correctly.
@ jfngw – well I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. There is a lot of evidence, eyewitness and written, pointing to a conspiracy.IMO.
Distance Oswald fired was only 88yds at a car only moving at 11mph. He used a scope and was a former marine marksman.
Kennedy was shot in the right side focused which controls the left side of the body. Remember ohysics. To every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Bullets with high velocity impart force, especially forward. There will be damage to spine and tissue resulting in reaction in the opposite way.
Here’s a bit more insight that should also help SNP members clear the party of gender-ideology cultists.
THE TRIAL OF R4PE
Understanding the criminal justice system
response to sexual violence in Thailand
and Viet Nam
https://tinyurl.com/yab5utte
P.S. I think it was the link on the post in moderation, that got blocked by the filter.
When is an independence supporting blog not an independence supporting blog?When it actively and repeatedly undermines independence for dubious reasons over a sustained period of time!
On most issues now supported by this blog and it’s dwindling readership, it is headed in the opposite direction of public opinion. When the party who will lead Scotland to independence is rising above 54% in the polls, this blog attacks that party?
Makes you wonder if the blog owner and those partaking in the verbal assassination of the most trusted politician in Scotland and the uk, really want independence?
@Doug Buchanan,
Ok you’ve had your gripe. Nip off back to Bella.
Here’s another legal perspective.
R4pe and the Media: Victim’s Rights to Anonymity and Effects of Technology on the Standard of R4pe Coverage
http://ejlt.org/article/view/172/262
Capella @ 12.31
I’m pretty sure in the 70s some official enquiry in the U.S. deemed there had indeed been a conspiracy to kill Kennedy !
Bob Mack
I see you are STILL trying to dominate this site.
This site belongs to a guy called Stu Campbell.
Not Bob Mack.
I wish you would take your own advice and take a hike, as you continually tell others to do
And the grammar in your last post leaves a lot to be desired.
Ra Ra Club out in force.
The wine is flowing
JFK was to sign an executive order taking away the sole right of money issuance from the fed and give it to the treasury. He also planned on destroying the CIA. Those 2 things can get anyone killed. JFK knew what was going on. The bell on JFK’s boat had engraved on it ‘Where We Go One We Go All’ – this phrase (wwg1wga) is becoming popular and can lead you to very interesting things
And here’s another perspective.
The role of human rights in determining whether
complainants of a sexual offence and/or defendants
charged with an offence under the Sexual Offences Act
2003 should receive anonymity
http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/9477/1/Laura_Taylor_e-thesis.pdf?DDD19+
@Vinny,
Oh, you are awful.
And another perspective.
Anonymity of R4pe Defendants
http://www.keepcalmtalklaw.co.uk/anonymity-of-rape-defendants/
Sorry, that’s another post stuck in moderation because I wasn’t paying attention to the link.
So here’s another and hopefully the Rev. will clear the others.
Routes to (in)justice: a research review on the reporting, investigation and prosecution of r4pe cases
https://tinyurl.com/y86q7m2p
So many people think its an either or with alex salmond and nicola sturgeon they assume that one or other is lying.
I DONT
I think alex salmond was innocent
I think westminster is behind the group of women that sought to imprison him
I think nicola sturgeon does nothing more than allow the law to take its course
If theres something wrong with this case coming to court it lies within the procurator fiscals office
Its not nicola sturgeon that decides whether or not a case comes to court she does not have that authority its the PF that decides
In my view there is no battle between NS and AS and that will come out in the long term
Surprised nobody has commented on the fact that Leslie Evans appears to be the one in charge of providing the investigation with the material it needs to investigate.
How convenient!
http://archive.is/aZSlg
(as linked to by the Rev in his article)
Moses on a bike. Leslie Evans changed the accepted Civil Service code of conduct which covers the whole of the UK.
She had no authority to do so unless the death of the UK did the same. They didnt.
Nicola agreed to these changes. Despite knowing that they only applied to Scotland, and despite knowing that they could be used to retrospectively catch Alex Salmond.
Why could Nicola not say to Evans “No the code must be universal throughout the UK”?. Instead she signed it off and I doubt very much she had the actua! authority to do so.
@ jfngw 8.05pm & cirsium 10.25pm I agree with people posting that NS could possibly have been put in an impossible position if she didn’t let the system take it’s course having signed off on it
But what is incredulous is having WASTED £500,000+ on a botched judicial review which the judge even commented on with derision and they never even contested , Nicola Sturgeon instead of sacking Evans for incompetence and the waste of tax payers money proceeded to inflame matters by extending Evans contract which was totally unnecessary and literally was a fcuk you to the ordinary people
What is happening more and more is politicians of ALL parties REFUSING to accept blame or responsibility for their actions , ignore any and all calls for their resignations or sacking and just hunker down hoping it will blow over ,with the collusion of their party , it has to be stopped these people have no integrity or morality
@ Doug Buchannan
Doug Buchannan says:
24 June, 2020 at 12:40 am
When is an independence supporting blog not an independence supporting blog?When it actively and repeatedly undermines independence for dubious reasons over a sustained period of time!
Trying to be fair Doug , can you point out where this INDEPENDENCE blog has actively undermined independence , can you show me some evidence ,or are you conflating the SNP and NS with independence , I know that the SNP used to be the party that had independence as it’s raison d’etre but it appears that for at least 5 years that goal has been diluted and replaced
I think you and others do Stuart Campbell a great disservice ,you and those others should be applauding and thanking him ,he has done more in the last 5 TO 10 years to PROMOTE independence than the SNP or NS has ,be honest with yourself Doug, Stu has done everything in his power to keep the SNP on track and honest he is still doing that ,criticism is healthy and needed
Doug Buchannan says:
24 June, 2020 at 12:40 am
…When the party who will lead Scotland to independence is rising above 54% in the polls, this blog attacks that party?
The only party leading Scotland to Independence is the morally corrupt and out of control Conservative Party and their rabid BritNat lunacy.
The moribund SNP under Sturgeon are actually doing nothing to deliver Independence, but instead, undermine and dismantle the potency of Scotland’s sovereign Constitution. They capitulated to Brexit like clueless, gutless cowards, when having a backbone and demanding a Constitutional Backstop would have kept Scotland in the EU and left the UK Union untenable and doomed.
You are misled Doug Buchannan if you believe the 54% support for Indy is being inspired by the SNP. I interpret 54% in the polls as the measure of where’d be with a crash test dummy in the driving seat. If we actually had a constitutionally savvy First Minister with some guts, the Union would have been stone dead in 2016. If Sturgeon had simply defended the democratic mandate to oppose Brexit, and the sovereign constitution which underpinned it, Scotland would have been over the line, but instead she arbitrarily pissed it all away and left Scotland‘s fate at the random mercy of the Tory imbeciles and Section 30 of the colonial Scotland Act.
Scottish Independence is dead in the water until the SNP ditches Sturgeon, puts a fighter like Joanna Cherry in charge, and if can, rewinds the clock to 2016 when the sovereign Nation of Scotland said NO to Brexit.
Nicola Sturgeon has all but wrecked our chances to stay in Europe, she has squandered all the YES momentum and impetus of 2015, and has placed 3 time bombs under the seat of First Minister.
The first is the constitutional time bomb and abdication of Scottish sovereignty which sets a precedent which will haunt this Nation for decades should we now fail to escape this Union. The second is the disgusting and shameful unlawful conspiracy to destroy Alex Salmond, and the third is the proliferation of science denying, misogynist Wokism which sets back decades feminism and women’s rights… hardly a vote winner.
We won’t actually know the damage which the SNP has done to Scottish Independence until the bombs go off, but “leading us to Independence”? Sadly, I fear you are deluded Mr Buchannan, and your faith in Nicola Sturgeon is misplaced.
Even now, at this eleventh hour, Scotland could still resurrect a Constitutional Backstop pitting the Sovereign will of Scotland‘s people against the unlawful colonialism of Westminster, and rescue Scotland from the disgrace and calamity of Brexit, just as Northern Ireland did successfully. Except we’d go one better, and secure our Independence and witness the demise of the Union.
Sadly, Nicola Sturgeon couldn’t even negotiate a place for the sovereign Nation of Scotland at the negotiating table. Scotland had to leave the room with it’s tail between it’s legs, and that’s precisely what it meekly did.
You have know idea how much this line upset me:
“Salmond has also been left financially ruined by his defence”
I’ve known Alec tangentially and very slightly personally for a long time and he’s a damn good man. An ethical, upright, decent man; hardworking with a egalitarian vision for his country.
It sickens me to think that he’s gone through this and there are still those actively besmirching him after he’s been found innocent and on top of that financially he’s taken such a hit. It actually sickens me.
The Parliamentary Inquiry will certainly command widespread media interest and attention as will Alex Salmond’s revelations.
With regard to defendant anonymity, I would ask the following question: Where, in principle, should the line be drawn between offences that should attract defendant anonymity and those which should not? Why should anonymity only be preserved for sexual offences? What about offences of murder, downloading child pornography or domestic violence? All of these will cause distress and severe damage to a person’s reputation.
Consider Jimmy Saville’s victims, many of whom went to the police and had their complaints disregarded, enabling him to continue offending. It is well established that victims of sexual offences are often reluctant to report the crime because they think they won’t be believed and won’t be sympathetically treated by the police or courts. False reports are rare. Parliament legislated in 1976 and 1992 for complainer anonymity in sexual offences trials, the reasons for which were widely accepted and can be justified as an exceptional circumstance. It’s purpose is to give complainants the confidence to come to court.
An open and public trial with an acquittal may still be the best means of clearing one’s name publicly, with justice being seen to be done. It struck me that this, more than anything, may have incensed his accusers, who chose to remain anonymous. Who knows? By remaining anonymous, the risk remains that information will leak out somehow and the suspicion of the truth of the allegations are greater and more persistent. It can be very difficult to keep allegations confidential with an intrusive and global media.
Whilst one can certainly sympathise with those accused who have suffered, this should not be a reason to depart from the important principle, in my opinion, of open justice in relation to defendants.
Time for those involved in this seedy and secretive farce to face the music and accept personal responsibility for their actions. I would like to see some humility from those in power…not the “ wringing hands “ variety but an absence of conceit.
Breeks@ 4.54am. You nail it again! Agree with every word.
What the fuck are you havering about? The systematic attacks on Alex Salmond are not being perpetrated by the Scottish Government but by the Scotland Office working via their Civil Service lackeys in the Scottish Parliament who happen to officially be registered as functions of the Scottish Government but in actual fact are NOT! You along with the media are deliberately taking a blind eye to the distinctions of the Civil Service in Scotland relative to the Scottish Government no doubt as a prelude to your intent to run for Parliament in opposition to the Scottish Government in the hopes of gaining a list seat.
Alex Salmond knows who he has to target and I bet my left nut that he wont target the Scottish Government.
@Dave,
I’ll take that bet.
This balding man is just a tool of a man.Thick as fcuk.
https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/status/1275406007171244034
This will do 2 things one already started, blight chance of independence.
2 Change the top leadership of SNP (hopefully).
I have read many of the comments, and like NI, during the troubles the British state will do anything for maintenance of union.
Who is implicated, Leslie Evans it would seem definitely. As for others I await the outcome of the enquiry, even though I suspect it will be a white wash.
We have the perfect storm with UK governments mess of covid, yet only activists, bloggers YES2 and AUUB calling for Independence.
Something very sinister going on at top level of SNP to mess this perfect time.
@ mike cassidy – re Telegraph article about Leslie Evans in charge of supplying documents to the committee. It’s not actually possible to “permanently” delete anything on a computer. Corporate IT will have an in-house email system and unless LE removed the hard drives on the backup servers, popped them in an envelope and sent them to Mark Sedwill, the emails can be recovered.
It’s customary to keep records for 6 years. What they may do is overwrite hard drive space but that can be reversed even after several hundred runs, if you have the will, of course.
The Scottish Government HR team run a Yellow Card exercise. The HR team can go into any part of the organisation and run training sessions on ‘behaviours’. After the training sessions all staff are invited to anonymously complete a ‘Yellow Card’. On this card they can identify individuals that they believe are not behaving appropriately. They can say anything they like on a Yellow Card, what they say anonymously is believed and acted upon by SG HR and the head of whatever part of the organisation HR have visited. Anyone who is accused via this process has no right of reply and is believed to be guilty of whatever is written on the Yellow Card. The accused is not given the ‘evidence’ against them they are not told of any events or actions that have allegedly taken place for fear they may can identify their accuser (s). The accused has no way of finding out what they are accused of and no way of clearing their name.
Remember that text message that says something like ‘I have a plan for maximum impact whilst still remaining anonymous’!
Somewhere up this chain someone says there is rot at the top, I am afraid it starts much lower down.
For folk interested in the GRA stuff .A lot of wokies includes 4 of our own Snp
https://twitter.com/deoradh1/status/1275509513081294850
Look at the Jim Dewar tweet further down
https://hiyamaya.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/letter.pdf
@ Lulu Bells – Creepy! For them 1984 was the handbook.
Dave
So NS, the first minister of our country, has absolutely no control over planted Westminster civil servants working at the centre of the Scottish government with the express brief of undermining it.
You obviously believe that, I don’t.
Capella says:
24 June, 2020 at 8:23 am
@ Lulu Bells – Creepy! For them 1984 was the handbook.
Aye… What popped into my head was the BBC and it’s Christmas Tree blacklisting of “thought criminals”, but you’re right with 1984.
Even now after witnessing years of this crap I struggle to believe what I am actually seeing unfold before my very eyes and and all under an ‘SNP’ Government.
Anyone who sincerely believes NS is not up to her neck in what has happened is delusional at this point but if by some miracle she wasn’t (she was) then she’d have to be the most wildly incompetent idiot of a leader imaginable. Either way she has to go and yesterday.
Tony Blair was not what he seemed and I think there is a now a very good chance the same is true of NS. You know the tree by the fruit it bears… and I think we have seen enough of it at this point.
And all the while the SNP under NS keep attempting to pass these truly shocking bits of legislation. The proposed Hate Bill is beyond belief.
I now find myself looking at the current SNP leadership like they have two heads and thinking WTF happened there and so quickly post 2014.
Independence is dead until we see change and a complete clear out at the top but alas it is maybe too late. (Independence under Sturgeon actually frightens me at this point.) Sturgeon has already populated the SNP full of Sturgeonites just as Blair filled the Labour party full of new labour w@nks. The Labour party are still struggling to find their true identity as a result. The damage done and being done is huge but has yet to really manifest at the polls. It is coming though. The days of voting for the SNP while holding my nose are over. I’m just not voting for them.
@Breeks. 4.54
Every single word, sir. If you aren’t in politics already you should be.
Useful stuff as ever, Stu, thank you. You usually present a breakdown of poll results by party allegiance. Did that produce anything significant in this case?
NATIONAL BANNER LIBRARY
This is an initiative organised by Grassroots Oban
The Concept
Each local YES / Indy group pays for five banners, which will be printed by Edinburgh Banners and send directly to the group. The banners will be displayed for a month on sites in the group’s area, then at the end of the month each group will exchange its banners with another group. This way banners will be rotated regularly enough to keep the public interested.
The Banners
The banners will be heavy duty vinyl with eyelets. Initially we would ask each group to choose five designs from those on https://grassrootsoban.scot/banner-library/
As designs are chosen and paid for they will be removed from the gallery. The first 21 banners are not shown in the correct 2 – 1 aspect ratio, but are currently being redesigned by Colin Dunne (IndyPosterBoy) to fit this format
Ordering
Please send an email with your chosen designs to banners@grassrootsoban.scot. Banners should be identified by the names underneath them. Payment should be by bank transfer or (if absolutely necessary) by cheque to Grassroots Oban. We will provide the bank details when you order. Once we have received payment we will send the order and the print file to Edinburgh Banners and arrange for the banners to be sent directly to you. The price per banner includes a charge for postage.
For a total investment of £150 and a commitment to swap with another group once a month your YES group can keep an interesting and varied selection of engaging indy memes in the public eye in your area. Groups with a bigger area/more potential sites will be able to order a second collection of 5, and we will be adding ot the current 36 designs as the scheme takes off.
@ robbo – thx for link – interesting read. I note that the trans lobby want the BBC to remove Joan Smith’s comment from their reporting. TERFs not allowed! Four SNP stalwarts sign the complaint.
When MSPs told me why they had not included the category “sex” in the Hate Crime Bill, although it is a protected characteristic, but “transgender” is included although not a protected characteristic, I was referred to a report by Engender as evidence that women’s groups didn’t want it.
I have rarely read such badly argued report. In it they assert:
Kate Manne has written the first book-length treatment on the nature of misogyny p33. https://tinyurl.com/yc2c38ut
But Kate Manne did not write the first book-length treatment of misogyny. Most of the 2nd wave feminist books deal at length with misogyny, including a book with the title “Misogynies” written by Joan Smith…
@twathater @2:23am
Your correct that politicians batten down the hatches when things go wrong. Possibly what happened here as NS signed off the change of rules sacking Evans would have confirmed the mistake of being outmanoeuvred. Politicians weigh up the fallout from a decision and go for the one that result in the least collateral damage to themselves, NS is no different in this respect to any other politician and to be honest anyone of us in any work situation, self preservation is always a strong incentive.
@Capella
Sorry I missed your last post, I needed to go to bed, being on the computer for so many hours yesterday was doing my eyes in.
Anyway it’s good to disagree, this would be a boring place if we all agreed about everything.
The public services in Scotland have an overlay of political supervision every bit as powerful as the political commissars in the Soviet Union.
You see it most obviously in the control of police actions throughout the UK in the miners strikes.
However ,The “Scottish” Civil Service is controlled by it. The commissars in Edinburgh are obvious to me and are feared by many in leadership in the SNP. They know to call it out would be a public relations disaster as it is so easily deniable .
@ jfngw – agreed! 🙂
Just in case there was still any doubt that the GRA brand of transactivism is a war on women
https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1275585932482220032
@ mike cassidy – I see ACLU are using a photo with Ruth Bader Ginsburg in the front row. She is famous for campaigning for women’s rights. There’s a Netflix biopic about RBG. Surprised they haven’t photshopped her out.
Transgenderism is MRA and Incel city. I will never accept that humans can be “born in the wrong body” or can change sex or that there are more than 2 sexes. Single sex facilities are just that – single sex, no exceptions, not even for your”very nice, harmless” trans pal. This issue WILL influence my voting and it is a hill I am prepared to die on.
Breeks at 0454pm,
Another excellent post. Nicola Sturgeon has done nothing to either advance independence or defend Scotland’s constitutional integrity. She talks of wanting to stay in the EU, yet when given numerous opportunities to actually do something about it, she ran away and hid.
I am to this day still furious at the way the SNP Scottish Government have done nothing to protect Scotland within the EU. Of course, they tried to keep the entire UK in the EU, going against the democratic wishes of England, but they have done absolutely nothing to keep Scotland in the EU. NOT ONE THING.
And do you know what angers me even more, the SNP don’t even seem to care. You would hardly think Scotland was about to be humiliated and dragged out of the EU wholly against the clear democratic wishes of the people of Scotland.
The SNP, the all talk, do-nothing party.
Mike Russel in Holyrood. “If this Parliament votes for a referendum, it will have it.”
https://twitter.com/pjwoodside/status/1223021108728860672?s=20
Re Kennedy assassination, what I would like to know is what part Jack Ruby (the man who shot Oswald) played.
So BBC Radio Scotland cut away from Scotland’s FM during her daily Covid-19 report half way through, to listen to Boris Johnson at Westminster. This in my opinion shows quite clearly where Radio Scotland’s allegiance lies, and its certainly not with Scotland, or Scots, but then most of us already knew that.
This is an excellent observation – the *actual* original Witchfinder General was about 24 when he was responsible for the executions of about 300 alleged witches.
https://twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1275719902196834305?s=20
AUOB marches to resume next month, the first one will kick off in Edinburgh on July 20th, then Stirling and Glasgow. These coming marches should be a good show case to tell Sturgeon that we want next years Scottish elections to run as a independence referendum as well, but will she listen.
@ Beaker – a big part – allegedly. He was part of the Dallas underworld / anti-Castro mafia. An eye witness identified him as the driver of a truck that decanted men with rifles at the grassy knoll. Her testimony was buried. (from Jim Garrison “On the Trail of the Asassins”)
Ruby then shot Lee Harvey Oswald 2 days after his arrest as he was publicly claiming to be a “patsy”. Ruby then died in prison.
wiki has a bio.
@ republicofscotland – AUOB have tweeted that they won’t have any marches until Phase 4. There seem to be lots of rumours about marches circulating.
https://twitter.com/AUOBALBA/status/1275498018016563200?s=20
I think there was fear that Salmond would return to front-line politics, and I also think it was shared by both Westminster and Holyrood. However, I do not believe that Nicola Sturgeon wanted to see Mr Salmond imprisoned on trumped-up charges, but I do think she might have played into the hands of those who did. As for the women’s complaints, it might not have been so much that they were being stored up for future use, but that former FMs were not included at that point.
Mr Salmond admitted that some of his behaviour had been inappropriate, but not illegal. At least two of the women involved had accepted apologies from him and that should have been the end of it. It just appears vindictive to then go for prosecution. Much of the evidence supposedly against the women can be read a number of ways, I’m afraid, but the case was really too weak for prosecution.
No, it is not necessarily a conspiracy, but it has all the hallmarks. Sinn Fein was infiltrated by double agents for many years, but MacGuinness and Adams found out only latterly. It is how the British State acts when under any kind of existential threat, so I think it is fairly reasonable to suggest that the SNP is similarly infiltrated. It appears to be the case that Mr Salmond was expected to be found guilty, but Nicola Sturgeon would have fallen with him – the British Nationalists and Salmond supporters together would have ensured that, so it makes no sense for her to have been part of a conspiracy.
It is far more likely that someone in that inner circle or close to it was involved, if there was a conspiracy, and that the women’s complaints were used to cause an implosion within the SNP. If MacGuinnss and Adams were fooled, and they had gunmen at their disposal, how much more likely is it that the FM was drawn in without realizing what was happening? No doubt, she did know that Mr Salmond had, on occasion behaved inappropriately, as he admitted, but seeing him imprisoned for years? I don’t think so. Either something bigger was going on or it was just a total shambles. Either way, the British Nationalists will want to make a meal of the inquiry.
The Gordon Jackson debacle, to me, signalled that it was part of something darker, I think, rather than an omnishambles, albeit that could have been a newspaper sting and nothing more. Usually, newspapers admit their stings. I really don’t think that Mr Salmond, whom I always found courteous and kind, personally, should vent his wrath in a revenge coup because it will not end well for anyone, including Mr Salmond.
Politically Nicola Sturgeon is at the beginning of her end .She is welcome to fuck off now.
Oh what heavenly hell.
Playtime.
RepublicofScotland @ 11:15
“This in my opinion shows quite clearly where Radio Scotland’s allegiance lies, and its certainly not with Scotland”
BBC – BritNat Brainwashing Channel
BBC – Blatantly Biased Coverage
Take your pick!
The word is SUBVERSION.
Scottish nationalism is a threat. Salmond was effectively the ticking time bomb of UK dismemberment. He had to be ‘defused’. What better in up tight AngloSaxondom than a bit of sex. A tale that in other cultures would hardly raise a disapproving eyebrow is given the oxygen of publicity.
Not exactly on a par with Roger Casement or the rumours surrounding Gandhiji but the prurient intelligence mindset is the same.
An epiphany for Scottish nationalism? I do hope so.
I am sorry for being insulting to those who have a different opinion from me. particularly jfngw.
We all have different views and I learn a lot from the points made on this site.
I feel we need a change at the top of the SNP and Angus MacNeil would be my choice. he not afraid to challenge the likes of pete whishart.
If u bite, your as mad as a mad dog out in the mid day sun.
‘An SNP bid to make sure Britain’s exit from the EU was dependant on all four nations voting for it in the referendum has been rejected. During the committee stage of the Referendum Bill, Foreign Office Minister David Lidington said the amendment did “not make sense”. BBC Scotland Politics 16 June 2015
The ‘quadruple lock’ amendment was moved by SNP foreign office spokesman Alex Salmond.
The Bill got Royal Assent on 17 December 2015.
It’s easy to profess ‘equal partner’ status for a constituent nation which is always outvoted. Nevertheless an opportunity to try to establish the constitutional position of Scotland within the UK was ignored. Shielding ourselves with nothing more than a few bleats we went into the 2016 referendum on a UK wide basis. Now we face being taken out of the European Union at the end of the year.
How do we address the complacency, arrogance, blissful ignorance and inaction which surrounds us?
I have readthe book England’s greatest spy DeValera it explains a lot of things that looked strange at the time how D.V., got rid of the real threat to England Michael Collins and made decisions against the interest of Ireland a lot of it is beginning to look similar to the present position in Scotland just now maybe England has another greatest spy ???
@Blair
“England’s greatest spy DeValera”
Really! that’s news to me I must read that.
I always thought Devalera was uncompromising in his anti-British stance.
There is a school of thought in Ireland that blames Britain for everything and never acknowledges the good we did.
“Capella says:
24 June, 2020 at 11:29 am
@ republicofscotland – AUOB have tweeted that they won’t have any marches until Phase 4. There seem to be lots of rumours about marches circulating.”
Capella.
Oh I see, the National newspaper carries a half page spread devoted to AUOB and the dates of their marches this year.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18535578.scottish-independence-auob-reveal-plans-demonstrations/
@ republicofscotland – just passing on a tweet. Part of my public service remit. 🙂
Former SNP Finance secretary Kenny MacAskill, has said the SNP needs to wake up when it comes to independence.
MacAskill says that Sturgeon should be planning our route out of this union, even though traditional methods might not be adhered to because the virus. MacAskill adds that on independence the party (SNP) should be getting into gear, and getting something done.
MacAskill stated that for months (on independence) the party has gone to sleep and needs to wake up. MacAskill also called the SNP for a new economic plan to be put together, claiming aspects of the pandemic had made the Growth commission redundant.
Speaking in the Daily Record, MacAskill added that Scotland faces a bleak future within this union. MacAskill finished with the little-Englanders and the Brexiteers have unashamedly continued for the last three months with the post Brexit deal.
Courtesy of the National newspaper.
So the life long list MSP Murdo Fraser was furious that John Swinney Education secretary intended to keep Scottish schools closed for longer than in Englands. However, a U-turn by Swinney now means Scottish schools will open on the 11th of August.
Fraser is now livid at the U-turn claiming it was their (the Tories) idea to open schools around that time. There’s just no pleasing a Tory, even when you do what they ask of you.
State o this
https://twitter.com/peter_mcgahan/status/1275698076766949377
“Blair Paterson says:
24 June, 2020 at 12:48 ”
On De valera Blair, this is a interesting Devils Advocate piece.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/ryle-dwyer/so-dev-was-englands-greatest-spy-yes-and-the-devil-in-disguise-too-104543.html
Just think.If he didn’t hide and have a gun that lion could have had a right good feed for a few days.
@ Balir Paterson, 12.48,
That’s interesting … Though it is surprising to hear of D V. , it is not really that surprising that the British secret service were/ are involved with very senior figures in those who are seen as their enemies.
I have been posting numerous times that NS is under the control of the brit secret service.
People dismiss this as they think such senior figures could not possibly be under their control, but, if you look at Irelands struggle for Independence and unity, many believe that very senior figures in the republican movement were under MI5/ MI6 control.
It would be utterly naïve not to think that they are at work at senior levels in the SNP.
The SNP are the greatest threat to the British state and for a long time have been infiltrating and influencing the SNP leadership.
Have I evidence?? NO. However, look at the current leadership and strategy as well as the divisive policies, not to mention not advancing the Independence cause, and you have a very real smoking gun.
Look at Sturgeons rise through the ranks. How Alex has been betrayed, and how the SNP could well implode.
You have the perfect storm for a granted section 30 order and a divided SNP lead by sturgeon in the new Indy ref.
That’s the unions best bet led by its safest bet. This is all hypothetical of course, but it IS a possibility.
Sturgeon then is portrayed by the brit media as the cautious but mature leader who was beaten down by the hard line indy suporters.
She then gives an interview saying something like ‘ Scotland is not ready for Independence, if we cant manage our own party’ or words to that effect.
This is the perfect position for the British secret service to divide and rule and have a leader in their back pocket!
You cant prove the secret service is involved, that’s how spooks work, they hide in plain site. what is clear though is, Scotland stands on the brink of independence, and the silence from the leadership is deafening!
People will say that support for the SNP and Independence has never been higher. True, but its all for nothing if we cant get Independence.
Also, the establishment are sitting on explosive information ready to be used in regard to the AS trial to divide the SNP and Independence support.
Unless we change leadership and get rid of the divisive policies and strategists, boot out the careerists and the nature deniers, Independence will be lost.
The unionists are hard at work all the time trying to undermine us. they are working from within!
Here’s some insight that might prove informative.
Guide on
INVESTIGATING AND
PROSECUTING R4PE
Abridged Edition
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/Guidance-Investigating-Prosecuting-Rape-(Abridged-Edition)-2010.pdf
Sorry Rev., that me not paying attention to the link address again. There’s a police practice guide for investigating r4pe allegations, stuck in moderation.
Lothianlad @ 2pm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat
When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, guess what?
Todays figures from the colonies and some data from the SUN on happenings in England + a UK Total.
Scotland………today….04…..Total….2480…BBC
Wales…………today….08…..Total….1491…BBC
N. Ireland…….today….01…..Total…..547…BBC
England……….today…*51…..Total no data..*SUN
====================================================
UK……………today..no data..Total…*42978..*SUN
“Bob Mack says:
24 June, 2020 at 12:32 am
Distance Oswald fired was only 88yds at a car only moving at 11mph. He used a scope and was a former marine marksman.”
Oswald fired a single bolt action rifle – with a defective scope -through heavy foliage – and was recorded as being ‘rubbish’ at shooting by the army….oh, and Congress admitted there was a “probable conspiracy” to murder JFK after hearings between 1976 & 1979..wake up.
@James,
The score in the marines for an “expert” marksman is 220.
Oswald scored 212. As his interest in the army faded,so did his ability to fire on targets. He was though skillful.
He chose the vantage spot because it’s much easier to shoot down and away rather than level and oncoming.
He chose the best site for that purpose so hardly a novice.
Bullets from Oswalds gun were found and had big home.
Hit rather than big!!
Here’s another legal perspective that Westminster is determined to deny to those living in Scotland. Remember, Scots law hasn’t gotten around to codifying legal protection for economic, social and cultural rights of individuals. However, Scots law is currently being prepared to deny a legal respect for the human genome. Time Scotland woke up to the fascism transforming Scotland.
N.B. national law can not be used to remove rights guaranteed under international law. Not in a democracy anyway.
http://www.ejtn.eu/Documents/Themis%202012/THEMIS%202012%20BUCHAREST%20DOCUMENT/Written_paper_Slovakia1.pdf
OT and for all the wee covid n*zis on here….if you didn’t think you were dancing to the devils tune before, you should now, dentists and hairdressers ‘permitted’ at LEAST a week before going to church.
and I’m not even religious……..Jesus Wept
@James,
Just for information. The bullets found after examination by forensics were found to be those supplied to the Marine Corps by the Western Cartridge Co in Chicago.
They are pretty unique for the Marine Corps who bought a batch of 400,000 cartridges. What makes that unique is that the Marine Corps had no weapons which could fire this calibre of bullet.
Oswald could have kept some of the ammo for future use.
Capitalism, social engineering and the herd instinct.
From an email:
“Diesel together with @otbfoundation will support two international projects dealing with gender identity and integration into the work market: the @sflgbtcenter (San Francisco Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Community Center) and the @tgeuorg (Transgender Europe). #forsuccessfulloving”
As we have all seen in media advertising capitalists have taken to that gender nonsense and the other people are dangerous ‘lockdown’ like pigs to mud.
The medium has delivered the ‘stay safe’ and ‘we’re all in this together’ message on cue and is also taken with anything rainbow coloured.
Community is now a two-faced word. It signifies the acceptance without question of a raft of novel societal ideas once the stuff of socio-political satire. It also signifies that the ‘community’ will hurt you should you dare to express dissent or dissatisfaction.
Totalitarian or simply decline into the intellectually moribund state?
The great Covid-19 global experiment has indicated how easy it is for democracies to herd, by engendering fear of an unknown, their citizens into accepting a species of oligarchy by self-selecting authority figures.
The age of the cyborg has made a giant leap.
I strongly advise folk to ignore opinion that denies the significance of the “precautionary principle”.
A Global Voice for Survival: An
Ecosystemic Approach for the
Environment and the Quality of Life
https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/81839/11/MPRA_paper_81839.pdf
@Ottomanboi,
Baa,baa,baa, I like this herd.
Reading some of the very disrespectful “tweets” posted in a vid of the first minister making announcements re Covid, such as “does anyone listen to her any more” and the ilk.
Then thinking, but they are right.
I’m almost embarrassed to admit I’m a Scot.
If anyone would like to read England’s greatest spy I got on Amazon kindle books I assume it will still be available as I say it is remarkable how much it resembles what is happening in Scotland now ???
This is the third time I have posted this and so far it has been blocked if you want to read England’s greatest spy I got on Amazon kindle books I assume it will still be available as I say it is remarkable how similar it is to what is happening in Scotland now ???
@callmedave
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ seems to be pretty up to date – might be a better source than sitting around, growing old, while waiting the BBC to pull it’s finger out.
Lawyers are all over this and to be fair to everyone I don’t think anyone should comment until proceedings are over. And this blog should not have been written for that reason.
Eco not echo. 🙂
http://lepo.it.da.ut.ee/~kalevi/sss33.1/kull-k4.pdf
@Ottomanboi says:
24 June, 2020 at 3:25 pm
“The age of the cyborg has made a giant leap.”
…by jumping into a car to test his eyesight…
Johnson’s London, proud to be Brit.
https://gulfnews.com/world/europe/reading-attack-are-knife-attacks-a-new-normal-for-brits-1.72226137
Still a good place for Saudis and Gulf Arabs to do stuff they wouldn’t dare at home.
A nice bolt hole too for then the ‘reckoning’ comes.
I’ve been watching snippets of PM Questions from Westminster.
Each time the very gentle and polite Sir Kier reads out damning facts
About the mismanagement of Boris’ government he just turns around
And lies like the pathological liar he is and this has reaped him high
Office with the English.
Today it raised the absurd fact the so called World Class Track and Trace System
That a dear friend has cobbled together at great cost is not tracing anyone in 2 out of 3 occasions.
That is a fact so the system is neither World Class or operational at an acceptable level.
Boris stands up and accuses Sir Keir of being jealous of this wonderful system and that he is probably in shock at how quickly it was developed.
I think not Boris! You promised World Class ready for the 1st June.
There really needs to be a situation where these damning stats are read out
And closed with an exclusion for Boris not to answer as it will inevitably lead
To more lies.
How about one of them resigns from office if their contrary statement is proved false?
CBB 3.49
FGS Cammy … everyone understands, and implements, the ruddy “precautionary principal” everyday! I check to see if there is traffic before I cross the road. I wear a seat belt when I drive. I have life insurance. I lock my house when I leave. Etc, etc etc!!
The issue is not do you accept, or not accept risk. It is a judgement of the degree of risk that an individual, a group, a nation, will accept in a given situation with an understanding of the risks, and the benefits, of acting or not acting.
As an example, and I have no personal view to share on the matter, the harsher a “lockdown” (under the precautionary principal) the more likely, it seems, that more people don’t consult their doctors and surgeons early enough with respect to ailments and dread diseases – and mortality risk for those people increases.
Have you got that in your thick skull?
@Sensibledave,
It is risk management. The scientists say it is risky and therefore are listened to by the appropriate government.
Nicola Sturgeon could of course consult yourself but there you go. It is what it is.
Sensibledave
I’ll not take lessons in risk management from Tory bigots. Jog on Toryboy.
Int J Occup Med Environ Health. 2004;17(1):9-16.
The Precautionary Principle, Epidemiology and the Ethics of Delay
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15212202/
Sensibledave at 6.19.
Talking of thick skulls, you use the word principal when the correct word is principle.
Oh dear, oh dear.
CBB
I wasn’t trying to give you lessons in risk management … I was trying to explain to you that to just keep banging on about the precautionary principal as if you are the only person in the world that understands is irritating for ALL readers. Your patronising manner, as you have discovered, irks everyone. Give it a rest will ya.
Everyone understands the precautionary principal. … except you it seems!
Ben hope
There are lots of other words that I would like to use on CBB, but, because I understand the precautionary principle … I don’t use them.
Sensibledave
“Everyone understands the precautionary principal. … except you it seems!”
The Tories reject the precautionary principle on an ideological level. This means they also reject the role it plays in international law. Westminster also considers itself above international law. That’s why the British economy is now totally fucked.
Ethics, Policy & Environment Volume 16, 2013 – Issue 3
From ‘the’ Precautionary Principle to Precautionary Principles
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21550085.2013.844569
Sensibledave
Why don’t you do us all a favour and give your ares a chance. The quacking it produces is bound to be better informed than you, Toryboy.
Front. Public Health, 07 July 2016
The Precautionary Principle, Evidence-Based Medicine, and Decision Theory in Public Health Evaluation
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2016.00107/full
CBB
OK Brains lets do this.
The Tories go with the precautionary principle on nuclear weapons … you don’t.
The Tories went with austerity and reduced borrowing as an employment of the precautionary principal … you disagreed with it.
Now the point is CBB, not whether the “precautionary principal” prevails in all circumstances. It is fair and reasonable for others to take a different view when they factor in other elements they deem important or more important. Please don’t get into a discussion about the rights or wrongs of nuclear weapons or austerity … that is not the point.
Sensibledave
Why don’t you do us all a favour and give your arse a chance?.
——-
This is largely why the Tories reject the precautionary principle. It is integral to achieving environmental justice, so we can’t have that.
Integrating Environmental Justice and the Precautionary Principle in Research and Policy Making: The Case of Ambient Air Toxics Exposures and Health Risks among Schoolchildren in Los Angeles
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/000271620258400104
Sensibledave
You are simply spouting gibberish. Jog on.
CBB
Haha! I suspect that the penny has finally dropped and you now have issues with blindly following the “precautionary principle” as it isn’t always the most efficacious overall.
I’ll take that as win. Good night.
It’a PARODY account,but exactly how carcrash Carlaw,Fraser,and all the other ilk think.
Repeat PARODY. just like Scot Tories
https://twitter.com/ScotConserv/status/1275826831078424577
Sensibledave
I see you are well trained in the argumentation tradition of ethically-challenged English Torydum, yet all you’ve got is the misrepresentation of my position. You’ve won nothing Toryboy, and your party has destroyed Britain. So away and play with yourself, there’s a good lad.
Preventive Justice, the Precautionary Principle and the Rule of Law
https://commons.allard.ubc.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1330&context=fac_pubs
Johnson refuses to aid Scotland in economic recovery from the pandemic. If we were independent now, we’d have the powers to do so.
We must break free from this horrendous union.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18538609.boris-johnson-refuses-grant-scotland-powers-help-economic-recovery/
Track and trace should be objected to at every opportunity. It’s not about Coronavirus, that’s just a pretext for introducing it. Eventually, it will be used for things like tracking your sexual history, police will use it to check alibis and so on, and many more reasons that I haven’t thought of.
It’s an attack on people liberties.
@SD
A society should be able to initiate changes to the precautionary principle they subscribe to once it becomes clear that amendments to, or a change of tack is required.
In a proper democracy when an elected government drops the ball and starts to impose policy that is detrimental to society, the electorate can choose to replace their government at the next election with one that better represents and serves them.
Nowt is set in stone in relation to how societies evolve through the passage of time.
You may be prepared to meekly accept and live with your Government that has shat and continues to shit the bed, others may decide that they would prefer not to have to put up with this shite state of affairs, and thus put their efforts into activism to affect the changes they want to see.
@Effijy says:
24 June, 2020 at 5:49 pm
“I’ve been watching snippets of PM Questions from Westminster.”
Just watched a bunch of it. Car crash for Boris. Starmer is a QC and was a defence lawyer as well as DPP. He’s used to dealing with judges. Boris hasn’t got a hope in hell, hence the bluster.
Mist001 says: at 8:16 pm
“Track and trace should be objected to at every opportunity…it will be used for things like tracking your sexual history…”
Only if the track and trace app has the ability to go back in time, coz with physical distancing measures in place, unless you have a 2.15m long peepee stick, your “sexual history” won’t be needing updated…
Maybe you’re right Mist and this is what 5G is for, so they can get a more accurate GDPS and GVPS. Previously with 4G every time you went through a Tescos checkout or McDonald’s drive thru it was getting logged as a shag and really screwing the data harvest.
While we’re on about a clearout of the SNP, please add John Mason to the list. Check out his latest motion. The last thing the Scot Govt needs is another distraction.
I forgot I also have a basic training in environmental law, though I’m sure I’ve already posted this. The Tories abhor the thought of social justice, so they’ll never get behind environmental justice. So that’s why they are desperate to leave the EU, and sold the lunacy of Brexit to a traumatized public (austerity), and on the back of racist exceptionalism.
Is Scotland really going to be forced to put up with this fascist shit?
Science for Environment Policy
The precautionary principle: decision-making under
uncertainty
https://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/precautionary_principle_decision_making_under_uncertainty_FB18_en.pdf
Surely some of the worlds countries will stand by Scotland, countries we’ve helped populate, and for the contributions we’ve made to the world, the ingenious Scots are known throughout the world, but we still feel inferior, why? Something’s not right in the Scottish Government, the wrong people in charge, things are changing it’s not the government but the people who will get Scotland’s future.
@Mist001
Don’t worry, I’ve been informed the motion sensors in phones cannot detect any movement less than three inches so you should be safe.
-Beaker-
Mason is an embarrassment.
I have no time for the whole Armed Forces Day/ build-a-house-made-out-of-poppies malarkey, but it will alienate swing voters. I always get the impression he really wants to be in the IRA but was born in the wrong country in the wrong era. That and he’s so thick he’d probably have accidentally have put Semtex in his own gas pipes.
The guy is to the SNP what Rees-Mogg, Keith Vaz or well-kent bridge enthusiast Cole-Hamilton are to their parties- a total bloody liability.
-Beaker-
Mason is an embarrassment.
I have no time for the whole Armed Forces Day/ build-a-house-made-out-of-poppies malarkey, but his behaviour will alienate swing voters. I always get the impression he really wants to be in the Sinn Fein but was born in the wrong country in the wrong era and he is fuming about it. That and he’s so thick he’d probably have accidentally told MI5 the names of everybody in the organisation.
The guy is to the SNP what Rees-Mogg, Keith Vaz or well-kent bridge enthusiast Cole-Hamilton are to their parties- a total bloody liability.
Good article, but I have one reservation about any proposed clearout of the SNP heirarchy… The prospect of Pete Wishart losing his current gig of career politician and returning to routinely humping our ears with Runrig’s third-rate teuchter emo pop *almost* makes me want to preserve the ongoing impasse.
Beaker
this John Mason?
Taking to Twitter, Mr Mason said: “I am happy to represent every constituent on issues like housing and to discuss all sorts of issues with constituents. However, I will not be speaking up for constituents who want lower taxes, orange marches, keeping Scotland in the UK, etc.”
He may be a bit of a Zoomer … But his heart is in the right place.
What is twitter up to?
I made a comment about the type of right wing bigots who were attacking people in George square. I described them as hateful and red neck bigots.
Now Twitter tell me I used hateful language. Is it a robot that monitors tweets? It’s as if it can’t interpret inference.
I refused to remove it and sent an explanation. Will see what they come back with.
Where would support for YES be if the entirely corrupt attempt to destroy Alex Salmond had never happened. How many points did that frame up take off YES over the last few years…
On top of that where would YES be had Salmond been smear free and fully operative as a politician during all of this BREXIT mentalness… during which Nicola totally failed to make any real hay while the sun shined soooo brightly and soooo long.
Salmond was not taken out for petty internal reasons. He was taken out for the big reason, and by his ‘successor’.
Big Jock
Twitter is American, so using language like “red neck bigots” will probably have triggered some sensibilities that would rather not be brought into view. It also helps to remember that twitter is run by a bunch of narcissistic dweebs, who have a very strange sense of reality and social justice.
Piers Morgan on Breakfast TV this morning highlighting the absurd statement
By a Tory MP that they conducted 240,000 Covid tests the day before.
They could not support such a number so they have
Tried counting the 2 swaps required per person as 2 people,
and they have tried counting a test kit put in the post as tested
So now it looks like the are counting the fingers and toes of each
Person with a kit in the post is actually 22 tests.
No one holding them to account in any Parliament, National news service
Or Newspaper?
big jock
call them unionists that support labour or conservative
you must always equate such behavior as the behavior of the average unionist and they get away with it because the BBC protects them.
Yep “there will be trouble on the streets of Glasgow tonight!!”
Friend catching up on last weeks Coronation St shows tells
Me that they have a new Scottish Character.
It crossed my mind that they would be a drunken thief as I
Couldn’t see how a Crofter from the Highlands would be in Manchester.
I was wrong to be fair.
It was an unemployed Scottish girl who lived in a squat who earned
Some money drug dealing with some Black Mailing as a side line.
Why do the English put up with a nation like ours?
“Useful stuff as ever, Stu, thank you. You usually present a breakdown of poll results by party allegiance. Did that produce anything significant in this case?”
No, all parties’ voters were within a few points of each other.
callmedave says:
24 June, 2020 at 2:44 pm
Todays figures from the colonies and some data from the SUN on happenings in England + a UK Total.
Scotland………today….04…..Total….2480…BBC
Wales…………today….08…..Total….1491…BBC
N. Ireland…….today….01…..Total…..547…BBC
England……….today…*51…..Total no data..*SUN
====================================================
UK……………today..no data..Total…*42978..*SUN
World meter is saying 154 new deaths in the Land of Hope and Glory today.
Big Jock says:
24 June, 2020 at 10:00 pm
What is twitter up to?
You’re not woke enough yet Big Jock, as time goes on you will learn to self sensor yourself especially if your identity is known and you are employed by a public service or are say in education. Enjoy your freedom while you still can. In thses past few months theres a huge push to have us comply. I keep waiting for some solid push back in the MSM but anyone who sticks there head above the parapet is crushed. Take care.
Twitter Heh heh heh
Thank you for using the wings fighting fund for opinion polls like that. As you said yourself, some of the results were a wee bit surprising – which makes it even more relevant.
Having read the evidence given at the criminal trial, I believe that the Alphabet women should be charged with perjury and some with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Their anonymity should be removed because, as having positions of trust in the SNP and/or civil service, it’s in the public interest to know who they are. They also should be discharged from their positions.
I hope Alex Salmond will sue those who continue the smear campaign. Their continued public claim that he is guilty is intolerable.
Great questions to have answered. I optimistically think most of the public, when not being induced or coerced by propaganda or social pressure, tend to want fair treatment for everyone and their answers here show that. The cynical news manipulation about their cause since the trial only adds to the obvious agenda they show while saying anything and taints whatever hope they might have had of being seen as victims.
Salmond was wrong to delay giving his side of the story straight away and doubly wrong if keeping it for a tell all book, which I feel can be used against him. Had he spoken sooner then it might have scotched their subsequent moans to the media. A sensationalist book that everyone gawks at on publication day also seems to me to cheapen the very serious allegations he has to make and which have to be taken seriously. I would generally trust his judgement but I feel this wait is in error.