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They will hurt us if we dare

Posted on July 07, 2014 by

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    1. 07 07 14 13:45

      They will hurt us if we dare | Scottish Independence News

    2. 07 07 14 15:09

      A new day, a new writer | Are We Really Better Together?

    95 to “They will hurt us if we dare”

    1. wingman 2020 says:

      The Establishment have form for hegemony and vindictiveness.

    2. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Anyone reading any of the English newspaper blogs or comments in English newspapers would come to that conclusion too.

      I blame it on their public education and their predilection for corporal punishment.

    3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I blame it on their public education and their predilection for corporal punishment.

      That is why they gravitate to Westminster and Teresa May’s psychedelic wellies.

    4. Tattie-bogle says:

      wait till they need a drink of water

    5. Anne Lawrie says:

      The consequences of voting “NO” are even more scary. We will have voted to subjugate ourselves to every whim & depravity that WM can heap upon us. We will have labelled ourselves as a nation of “wee timorous beasties”. We will have no respect in the eyes of the world and will even have lost the chance to show the rest of the UK that it just doesn’t have to be like this.

    6. galamcennalath says:

      The British Empire never was a benign entity, God help anyone who dared to challenge it. Historically, opposition was always met with a vicious response.

      Scots are now making a challenge by peaceful democratic means. The last vestiges of Empire find that difficult to counter in a peaceful democratic way. British democracy has always been limited where the will of the people must never go as far as to challenge the Establishment. The question really is, will the behave to form?

      I have always posted my doubts about the post Yes negotiations. I don’t think they will go well. Despite the Edinburgh agreement.

    7. gordoz says:

      Guys: There is a very similar thread to the video Podcast below by Michael Greenwell.

      Ivan McKee / Derek Bateman / Carol Fox on June 5th in the borders event for undecided. Dynamite stuff and very inspiring.

      Excellent contributions in response to undecided (and loaded union supporting questioners), on this subject and other key factors (for first 30mins as a minimum).
      Great Stuff indeed.

      ‘Looking for a lively debate’

    8. BrianW says:

      I was thinking about this the other night – the English intervention that lead to the failure of the Darien Scheme.. Remember “..a tale of betrayal, power, and military and political might brought to bear against Scotland.” (see

      Are we heading for Darien II if we dare vote yes? I feel that Westminster will do everything in its “Black Arts” power to Royally bend us over the desk..

      This won’t hurt a bit…wince !

    9. Dr Ew says:

      Hard to argue with Peter Arnott’s insight. Better Together issues prognostications and insinuations of dire consequences if we dare to leave, while making vague promises of better times and more power if only we’ll stay.

      I’m not the first to hear strong echoes of abusive partner-speak. Every women’s refuge in the land knows this kind of controlling, threatening language inside out.

      So – do we recoil in fear or gather our self-respect and leave?

      And if we do leave our happy union, will we have to put up with stalking, threats, emotional blackmail, petty repercussions while being ostracised from all our friends?
      I very much doubt it.

      So let’s call their bluff. And if rUK pursues its threats, whatever happens we’ll be better off living independently.

    10. Helena Brown says:

      I don’t expect much from Westminster right now and I don’t expect much in the future either. We are in rebellion right now, oh it may be peaceful but still a rebellion as they see it. They have fired up those who are easily led to believing we are all haters of the English because lets face it, can anyone name me a country and a people they actually admire, and that is what they do. I think BtP alluded to the fact that there is hardly a blog or comment from someone in England which could be said to be, struggling presently for a word, decent. I have read we will all be back when we get into financial difficulties and lets face it I think they will endeavour to get us into them. They certainly tried in the past.

    11. Gray says:

      Just about every foreign leader whom the No campaign have persuaded to comment have said that whilst they would prefer the union to remain together ultimately it would be up to the people of Scotland to decide.

      When the people of Scotland decide upon independence, I’d be very surprised if the rest of the world were not then reasonably supportive of Scotland’s plight should rUK decide to play hardball over pre-independence negotiations.

      Scotland will be fresh in the memories of all the Commonwealth countries who have already assumed their own independence from the empire and I would imagine the rUK would come under some pressure internationally should they be seen to adopt too many unreasonable positions post referendum.

    12. It sort of begs the question – why would anyone want to be in a union with folk like that?

    13. gordoz says:

      I concur Dr Ew !

      Well said.

    14. Papadox says:

      Would anyone hand their wages and life over to their next door neighbour and allow them to run their life for them?

      So why hand your life and your wealth over to a bunch of thieving lying foreigners to treat you like servants?

    15. Tom Platt says:

      We are strong in our knowledge that vindictive children do not succeed in the end. Why should we concern ourselves with any fears?


    16. Onwards says:

      The scaremongering and the reality are two different things.

      If Scotland votes YES, then the vast majority of folks in the rest of Britain will simply accept a democratic vote.

      There might be a few hurt feelings at first, stirred up by the likes of the Daily Mail, but in the end, it all comes down to self interest.
      Why have a bad relationship with a close neighbour?
      It doesn’t make any sense at all.

      Scotland using the pound is just as much in England’s interest. As is maintaining close links and reciprocal agreements in other areas, NHS’s etc

      If we don’t vote for self government, then we will be treated with the respect we deserve.
      We will pretty much be seen as a nation of pussies to be walked all over.

    17. Morag says:

      When we had our referendum debate in West Linton last month a lady in the audience expressed similar fears. She was greatly concerned that people in England would stop buying anything from Scotland. Ivan McKee tried his damndest to explain that people buy the best product for the best price and origin isn’t a big issue. Why would English people refuse to buy Scottish produce after independence, he asked. Spite?

      The lady said that was exactly what she was afraid of, and no amount of reassurance from other people in the hall could sway her. Ironically, she herself was clearly English, with the sort of cut-glass RP accent that speaks of finishing schools and debutante balls.

      I wasn’t picked to speak, but if I had been I’d have declared that she wasn’t describing the English people I know (and I lived there for 25 years). But if she was, why on earth would we want to go on being in a union with people who would treat us like that?

    18. Breastplate says:

      There are different opinions on the economical arguments for independence because people can pick and choose the numbers that suit their stance, I can understand that.
      I cannot understand how anyone can argue against philosophical aspect of self determination. It just doesn’t work.

    19. Morag says:

      Ah, same event Gordoz was referring to. It was actually on 23rd June.

    20. Nation Libre says:

      Sorry for going off topic but does anyone else feel that we’ve been had by the Sunday Herald’s backing of Yes. Since the initial outing, it’ seem pretty subdued now and even had the ‘blow for Salmond’ headline over a whisky firm’s donation to BTNT.

      I can’t stand 5 days of union propaganda to await the measly few crumbs on a Sunday. Are we just keeping it afloat? There are no end of stories the SH could run with, far more analysis of Scotland’s finances and the type of info the Rev puts up here every day. I’m not looking for a bias to YES, just some decent, investigative journalism. I think we’re being had by the SH

    21. gordoz says:


      People should watch the video on Michel Greenwells site.

      I thought it was particulalry good on a number of subjects.

    22. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I look forward on the announcement of the Yes vote in September to the sun finally setting on the British Empire.

      I just wonder if they will turn out the lights themselves?

    23. seoc says:

      There’s only one response to the bully.

    24. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Westminster right now is a gang operating a protection racket.

      Pay us or we will wreck your country.

    25. Robert Bryce says:

      Brian W

      I thought that too but then It occurred to me that Scotland has far more to offer the world than the rUK.

      For me the bottom line is energy. It’s energy that drives EVERY sustainable economy. Energy to process raw materials and generate REAL wealth is the cornerstone of every economy the world over. Those who have adequate access to it prosper. Some squander it though!

      The UK economy is almost entirely built on sorting each others photo copiers. It’s not healthy, we don’t produce enough and rely on kicking the debt can down the road when we reach it. We’re almost at the end of the road now.

      Scotland has a plenty of energy. The simple fact is that Scotland has more energy than it needs and is in fact a net exporter to rUK.

      It is rUK that has the energy deficit and reliant on Scotland.

      The shoe is in effect on the other foot now. We don’t need rUK blessing to grow our economy. They need us.

      Should rUK decide to play the barriers card we have energy in our locker. We simply put our energy to use and forge new markets overseas (preferably with our own currency).

      I’m absolutely certain the Scottish Government are aware of this.

      What I will say though is that even though I demand our Government play hard I also expect them to do it fairly. Like many others, I have family, colleagues and friends in England and wish no hardship on them.

      In short. We’re not the reliant partner in the relationship and haven’t been for quite some time.

    26. Giving Goose says:

      The English people will not be seeking vengeance after a Yes vote.

      Something that has to be understood is that the folk who make these dire warnings are as out of touch with English public opinion as they are with Scottish.

      Most English people are indifferent.

      Let’s put this another way.
      I was at Cornbury music festival over the weekend, right on Dave Cameron’s doorstep, in the Cotswolds.
      The Peatbog Faeries closed the festival on Sunday night (last night) and all the people present loved them. There was absolutely no indication of any anti-Scottish feeling on the part of anyone there. There were festival goers who were wandering around the festival with Kilts on.
      I’ve got a broad Scottish accent and nobody confronted me and said “stuff your whisky if you vote No.”

      The English are to busy making ends meat like the rest of us and disinterest and distrust of politicians is endemic.

      Those making the forecasts of doom are talking within and to their own peer group. It’s called the Establishment and events are happening in a parallel world to the world that the Establishment believes exists.

      Scotland can safely follow it’s own path.

    27. alexicon says:

      I can’t remember a boycott of Irish products as bombs went off in English cities?

    28. Helena Brown says:

      Well can I take that as a promise that Westminster will not fire them up after a YES vote. Those writing to the papers with the green ink are either from GCHQ or are not English. I also did not get booed by English people from the same neck of woods on a bus in Sweden, must have been Swedes. As my fellow? citizens would never do that then?

    29. BrianW says:

      @Robert Bryce

      I totally agree with you there Robert. We, as a Nation have lots to offer and not just to uKOK. I do wonder though that some may make it an unnecessary rough ride. Ha-ha you pesky Scots..

      A case of cutting off your nose to spite your face type Westminster approach.

    30. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Nation Libre

      No. Most certainly not. There are eight pieces in the Sunday Herald in our favour including two extremely uplifting pieces from Jimmy Reid’s daughter and Neal Acherson (about the best thing I’ve read recently on an emotional and logical reason to vote YES)against one destructive piece of little import from Labour supporting Tom Gordon.

      Any expectation that the Sunday Herald is going to come out as a YES or SNP pamphlet is fanciful

    31. Capella says:

      I don’t believe that English people in general will be remotely antagonistic to Scotland if there is a YES vote. Some will be, some indifferent, and a great many supportive and hoping that English regions can follow. Let’s not confuse the power addicts in Westminster with our friends in England, Wales and Ireland.

    32. Morag says:

      Gordoz, I think it would be best to avoid Michael Greenwell’s site. He has removed the speeches from the beginning and posted only the discussion. (The comments are also few, and include commercial spam.)

      The full video, unedited, as posted by Marshall Douglas who filmed it, is on You Tube here.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      I’m sure they would prefer to stop us voting Yes, rather than punish us later if we did.

      The tricks will get dirtier as we approach the 18th.

      And, if there is a Yes declared on the 19th, the negotiations which follow will be, in my opinion, short, simple, and not so sweet. Team Scotland will end up walking away because Team rUK will not be ‘sportsman like’. It will come down to “you, rUK, want to keep most of the assets so you can take most of the debt with it!” Does anyone really think they will hand over the ships, planes, gold, properties overseas etc etc which we consider our share?

      The good news has to be that ongoing animosity is in no ones interests. The Empire has form there to. When a country eventually breaks free, business and trade starts promptly! A problem suddenly becomes an opportunity.

    34. Gillie says:

      I see the Orange Order are defending their right to bottle innocent bystanders.

      Could be utter chaos in Edinburgh.

    35. Tam Jardine says:

      Has anyone heard of the forthcoming Indy horror movie ‘white settlers’ coming to a cinema near you. Scotsman gave it plenty non critical coverage in the thing they call a newspaper today.

      You know what to expect – English couple move up to Scotland only to be subjected to a campaign of terror by Scottish backwoods types.

      A helpful contribution to the debate – not sure if it is based on real events?

    36. Caroline Corfield says:

      The scare stories are just temper tantrums, some of them are inspired by projection anxieties and say more about Better Together No Thanks UKOK’s own fears than what will happen.

      They perhaps fear that Scotland will go it alone and not trade with rUK, that there will be a backlash against English products as the nation realises it’s own products on it’s own doorstep are just as good, or new companies set up to provide products previously bought in from the rUK.

      Better Together No Thanks UKOK are a campaign entirely founded on fear- their own. Fear of losing control over things they had begun to think of as theirs, as birthright, as natural order. Fear justifies any means. Fear causes uncontrolled outbursts and collateral damage.

      The last days of this campaign are not going to be pretty unless someone can get to them and convince them there is nothing to be fearful of. In the last days we should perhaps make a concerted effort not to be a them and us, but all Scots making a decision, it will be the hardest time to do it, but it might be the best tactic of the whole debate.

    37. Nick says:

      Wait till they need a drink of : Water or Whisky. Wait till they need some Aberdeen Angus Beef, Lamb. Want to buy some petrol or diesel. That ought to take about 5 minutes.

      My fear is not for the petty sanctions, but the fear of the English predilection for war on ‘those who have oil’ . . .

      What will their excuse be to go north of the border?

    38. Benjamin Ra says:

      Like anwhere there will be nasties and normal people. The root of any problem will be due to post imperial arrogance. You see it on question time whenever an international issue is discussed. A yes vote will be a much push to addressing the problem

    39. DougtheDug says:

      Tam Jardine:

      Sounds like a complete rip-off of Sam Peckinpah’s “Straw Dogs”.

    40. Luigi says:

      In the last days we should perhaps make a concerted effort not to be a them and us, but all Scots making a decision, it will be the hardest time to do it, but it might be the best tactic of the whole debate.

      I fully agree, Caroline. Brilliant. We will be sorely tested, but we have to stay positive and inclusive. No unsightly slugging in the streets. The side that needs to do that has already lost the argument.

      How about a “Don’t be scared – join us!” approach?

    41. Democracy Reborn says:

      There’s a very powerful & moving guest piece on Wee Ginger Dug’s site by Lauren Reid. She was a former staunch unionist, No voter, ex-armed forces & comes from a Orange background.

      She talks about her journey to Yes. Worth a read & tweeting a link to(apologies, as I’m not on Twitter).

    42. Robert Peffers says:

      There is one very much played down stone cold fact staring us in the face. The United Kingdom Establishment can be summed up as, The Royalty, The Elected Government, The Unelected House of Lords, The upper level of Civil Service, The Established Churches, The BBC and other media. These have all recently been involved in sex, rape & paedophile scandals.

      Now we have claims there has been cover-ups to protect these people. If anything is calculated to verify such claims as true it is cover-ups. This cover-up includes the Public Prosecution service, Police, Royal Household, Commons, Lords, BBC and the media. True or false the whole structure needs torn down and rebuilt from the roots up for these people are legally our servants – not our masters. If then anyone must be held as guilty it is we, the people, who have allowed it to happen. It falls to us to repair that which is broken.

    43. muttley79 says:

      He is bbbaaaccckkk! John Ruddy returns to Guardian Cif with this comment:

      Which of course is to be expected from the Future President talking about the Future Prime Minister.

      No mention of the debacle over Kathy Wiles. 😀 😀

    44. magnus barelegs says:

      bertie armstrong-remember him? is doing the rounds again with more daft fearmongering yet still claims he is neutral, aye right! dave cameron tells them to jump and they say how high? you can read these unionists/brit state machine/bitterers together and their co-ordinated attacks on scotlands democracy and people like a book. its so obvious.

    45. bittie glakit says:

      Talking of being hurt, I’m concerned that the next protest outside the BBC may not the friendly affair it was the last time. This is protest number three, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple of hoodies appeared and smashed some windows quickly followed by riot police. You can imaging the reporting about that. According to this video, the BBC is not above faking reports.

    46. gordoz says:


      Didn’t know that good point !

    47. Fireproofjim says:

      Caroline. Well said.
      My only worry in these last days of the campaign Is that it is all a bit quiet on the official Yes side.
      I have heard little from “Labour for Yes” ( which I think is vital), and even the SNP are not reacting very vigorously to the scare stories. I have faith though, that the massive, game changing push is yet to come, because, as one Harold Wilson said, a week is a long time in politics and the last week of the campaign will be what everybody remembers. Fortunately for us that is also when the OO bottle throwers hold their march in Edinburgh.

    48. Illy says:

      “My fear is not for the petty sanctions, but the fear of the English predilection for war on ‘those who have oil’ . . .”

      They only do that to countries with oil and without nukes.

      I know I won’t make any friends here by saying it, but it’s the truth.

      (Seriously, if anyone can point me to a country that has a nuclear detterrent under their control that’s been invaded recently by the USA/UK, please do)

    49. handclapping says:

      Dont confuse we English, who are a marvellous people as someone once said 🙂 , with the Westminster Establishment who are very happy to bayonet the wounded, be child abusers and dodgy expenses rip off merchants.

      They are the sort of people who would boycot Scottish produce while getting their caviar from the mafia.

      If we vote no we suffer their ill will and leave them power over us
      If we vote Yes we still suffer their ill will but we are shot of them

      Vote Yes; its a no-brainer

    50. john king says:

      BtP says
      “I just wonder if they will turn out the lights themselves?”

      No we’ll do that when we pull the plug on all the free power they’ve been helping themselves to. 🙂

    51. Fireproofjim says:

      You are right. The English are a marvellous people. Generally good natured and full of goodwill.
      Never confuse them with the Westminister elite, most of whom have never been outside the political bubble or had a real job.

    52. Colin says:

      “They will hurt us if we dare”

      And crucify us if we don’t.

    53. liz g says:

      @ bittie glakit

      I share you,re concern about the next protest

      The gossip I am hearing from people who work around there
      is that the BBC building will be indirectly included in the
      zone set up around The SECC to protect it during the games.

      This [if true] will make just getting there harder and there
      will be more than the Glasgow cops around.

      This could so easily be manipulated into some sort of confrontation.

      Hope everyone who can pays attention and films everything.

    54. Tam Jardine says:

      Link to the Scotsman piece on the indy horror flick. I love the wee bit about balance in a movie about Scottish maniacs hounding a young English couple from their homes. This campaign is just a weird dream, right figments?

    55. Andy-B says:

      I don’t think your average English punter will, bat an eyelid, when Scotland leaves the union, its only the occupants of Castle Greyskull aka Westminster, and their whipping boys the tv and press,who fear it they will end up, being victims of their own project fear.

      The rest of the UK will still trade, buy and sell with Scotland, because its in their own interests to do so.

    56. Craig P says:

      Simon Varwell – Sandstone Press author and general good guy 🙂

    57. Clootie says:

      Anne (@annewitha_e) says:
      7 July, 2014 at 12:10 pm

      short and to the point :D(unfortuately also very true)

      I still believe it will all change after a YES vote because it will be in their interest. However if the bully wins then nothing will change regarding Westminsters attitude.

    58. Proud Cybernat says:

      And when we dare we will see just how empty their threats truly. Or is it truly that if we don’t vote No, we’ll all be glassed and then, presumably, bayonetted?

    59. Kenny says:

      Remember – we have the upper hand in negotiations. We’ll have their nukes and no debt. Anything nice we do with either is entirely contingent on rUK playing the game. None of us want any acrimony but if negotiations become aggressive we can just unilaterally disarm, assume no debt and, of course, walk into the EU with no serious difficulties. rUK, with gargantuan debt, no nukes, a 10% fiscal deficit, the loss of Scotland’s economic power (especially oil exports, but whisky is a fair power too) and population and their mad Little Englander isolationism (which I imagine will only grow as Scotland departs, will become the closest thing the western world has to a failed state.

    60. Proud Cybernat says:

      Sorry, I forgot–it’s the LOSERS Davidson wants bayonetted.

    61. Andy-B says:


      Westminster’s Esther McVey and IDS have no plans to study the shocking impact of sanctions and cuts, on people, who lose their benefits. McVey and IDS said they’ve no plans to study the rise of foodbanks across the UK either.

      The Wesminster government announced this even though David Mundell a Tory MSP admitted at Holyrood that the severe cuts to benefits has driven thousands of Scots into poverty and hunger.

      Meanwhile,taxpayers have footed a £1 million pound bill for a nursery at Westminster the MP’s get their children looked after in a state of the art nursery whilst the average woman has to wait 18 months for childcare help.

    62. Dan Huil says:

      Recent tory fundraising [dinner, auctions etc] show how out of touch Westminster is. Russian oligarchs, Dubai-based financiers etc oozing sleaze and sycophancy. Millions raised. The only thing “united” in this “united kingdom” is the greed uniting Westminster politicians and their unionist media supporters.

    63. ronnie anderson says:

      orangeman punches Seagull.

      Wee tip, dont walk through Glasga or any other city in

      Scotland eating a Fish supper.

    64. Mary Bruce says:

      I really can’t see this “Scots hounding the English” horror movie going down well in Scotland at all. Isn’t one of the reasons that Cameron won’t debate with Salmond because he doesn’t want it turning into a Scots versus the English thing? Isn’t this why they tried to sabotage Bannockburn?

      Maybe I’m wrong but I just can’t see it breaking any box office records.

    65. Peter Macbeastie says:

      As with most nonsense the No campaign periodically suggest, this one’s up there with the flying pigs.

      I lived in England for near seven years. Aside from periodic elements of being called the usual English slang for Scots which, I should point out, were never said with any real intent to annoy involved (they’re labouring under the misconception that it’s banter, but that’s generally all it is) and the vast majority of that diverse nation who call themselves English are without doubt fine people. It is not the people who I would worry about being petty, vindictive children.

      Westminster, on the other hand, are about as far removed from calm, sane, rational thought as it gets and they, I can well believe, would not exactly be helpful to an independent Scotland when they could hinder instead.

      I, however, like others worry infinitely more about what Westminster would do if Scotland is timid enough to vote no. I believe they will ensure that Scotland will never again be in a position to hold a democratic referendum. And that, I suspect, would only be the thin end of the wedge.

    66. Gordon E says:

      Nation Libre @12.50

      I agree, it does appear that we have been had by the Sunday Herald.
      It nearly turned my stomach to read an article by Jim Murphy and there was definitely a feeling of gloating that a main player in the whisky industry was not only voting No, but were giving substantial amounts of cash to campaign against a Yes vote.
      Very disappointing really.

    67. Cindie says:

      If this film is meant to be about the early 1990s, (which is when I moved to Scotland) why is it only being made now. Makes me wonder where they got their funding from?

      Also, I have heard, from a number of people, that the English will turn against Scotland if we vote yes – always from no voters I must say – but I lived in London during the worst of the IRA bombing. I knew of people who were injured or even killed. I also knew a lot of people who were Irish or of Irish descent, none of whom ever experienced any hatred or reprisals or even unkind comments for what was happening.

      There may be some people in England who stop buying Scottish goods or who spout prejudice, but there are some people who voted for UKIP. Most English and Welsh people (and I include my family in this) are decent and fairminded and will probably wish us well. Though, as their only access to information is the MSM, they may be rather surprised if the vote is yes!

    68. Holebender says:

      I’ve been saying this all along; (a) Do you really believe the English are that spiteful and vindictive and (b) if the answer you give is “yes” why would you want to be in a union with such spiteful, vindictive people who will only treat you fairly if you do exactly what they want?

    69. Sinky says:

      The Wesminster government announced this even though David Mundell a Tory MSP admitted at Holyrood that the severe cuts to benefits has driven thousands of Scots into poverty and hunger.

      By coincidence the said David Mundell is hosting a UK Colonial Office Referendum Question and Answer session at the Eric Liddell Centre in Edinburgh on Wednesday evening.

      I can’t believe he will answer the audience questions all by himself

    70. Muscleguy says:

      Well I knew an Irish guy in London in the ’90s who was regularly hassled for the crime of driving while Irish. He was a porter at the research institute I worked at. He necessarily drove an old, beat up car and would get stopped for checks, fair enough. But as soon as they clocked his accent then if he was lucky they just stripped the car searching it at the roadside leaving him to put everything back. If he was unlucky he would be arrested and the car searched at the police station.

      Mind you that was the Met, nobody else had a problem with him.

    71. Dick Gaughan says:

      ronnie anderson says:
      “orangeman punches Seagull.
      Wee tip, dont walk through Glasga or any other city in
      Scotland eating a Fish supper.”

      If it’s a Friday, you’re probably safe with a fish supper. No self-respecting Jaffaman would touch a fish on a Friday.

      Seagulls are another story, thieving bastards they are. Worst place in Scotland to try to eat a fish supper is the pier in Ullapool. If the seagulls don’t get you, the midges will.

    72. Robert Peffers says:

      You think that there won’t be an adverse English reaction?

      Then check out the BBC Ceefax Sports/Tennis report currently being broadcast. My mate just copied and fetched me the text and he was so much filled with laughter he couldn’t even read it to me.

      , “Britain’s Andy Murray has slipped to 10th in the world rankings – his lowest position for six years- following his quarter-final exit from Wimbledon. The Scot , 27, was ranked fifth ahead of his defence of the men’s singles title ended by Grigor Dimitrov in the last eight”.

      Relegated from Briton to Scot in two sentences by the BBC. I’m still laughing since seeing the so childish BBC Ceefax Broadcast.

    73. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev Stuart.
      Have I perhaps done something wrong? I find my posts vanishing and if I do get one to copy it is marked for moderation. If I’m not welcome you only need say so and I’ll vanish.

    74. Cindie says:

      @Muscleguy – in the 1980s and 90s the Met Police were something else again. I would say a law unto themselves, but do you think that’s too much of a pun? 😉

    75. Papadox says:

      The elite, establishment and Westminster are the enemy not the English people.

    76. Be Positive says:

      It is just like an abusive partner. Placating does not work. Vote YES and leave, it might prove hard at first but eventually you will be so glad you did!

    77. James Sneddon says:

      Strange most if not all english folk (not politicians) are saying ‘go for it’, ‘get out while you can’ and other words to that effect. Looking at history the British will try every dirty trick to derail and indy movement but after indy is gained the British have tended to be all nicey, nicey almost like sensible grown ups.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      @James Sneddon says: 7 July, 2014 at 5:20 pm

      “after indy is gained the British have tended to be all nicey, nicey almost like sensible grown ups.”

      No James the UK have tended to be all nicey, nicey. The other non-UK countries in Britain have always neen all nicey, nicey. There are four non-UK countries in Britain. That’s one Republic and three non-UK Crown Dependencied

    79. JLT says:

      I’m just back from a trip to England to see relatives there. Even they have said that they expect Westminster to ‘punish’ Scotland if we vote ‘No’. As they said, it’ll be your block grant (the Barnett Formula) that they will go for.

      I could only agree.

    80. Ken500 says:

      Most of the Guardian posters support Scotland and the Scottish Gov policies. There are completely biased columns and they take it to bits. They are especially against the LibDems.

      The election bribes have started from Westminster.

      The bile that is heaped on Scotland from Westminster politicans is par for the course. It would be a change for them to recognise their secrecy and corruption and apologise.

    81. Ian Mackay says:

      Andy-B, 2.41:
      Castle Greyskull is the base of He-Man; the good guy.

      Surely Westminster would be akin to the base of the evil villain Skeletor; Snake Mountain?

    82. YESGUY says:

      I can see why so many are “worried of the backlash” from English folk.This is a tactic of project fear. To leave you feeling isolated and insecure. It will be laid on thick and won’t stop till the 19th so a wee bit of advice to anyone worried.

      Get in touch with friends and family down south , they will keep you right. The English are the same folk as we are . struggling with the same worries as we are. They may not talk about the referendum much as they don’t see it as a problem. After a YES vote , very little will change and the threat of borders etc is just that…A THREAT.

      We are moving this country in ways it has never imagined. many have tried in the past and failed but this is SO different. The grass root movements have galvanised everyone. We are so much more aware and involved with politics than ever before. We see options from the normal and Westminster know full well the loss of Scotland will bring about many changes here and down south.

      I have family down there, determined to stay there as well but they all say it’s our choice. Nothing will change afterwards. And i take heart from that. Many are watching Scotland to see if we can do what has never been done. They will use iScotland as a way to do things differently.

      Remember, this is the biggest thing to happen to the UK period. Nothing else can compare.

      Be strong,look out for each other. If you see a YES or Wings badge Give them a nod . We are a national movement. We also have a voice . Don’t be scared to use it. Remember every doubt has been planned for, every line they spout planned. They have the media but we have the people.

      Keep the faith folks. Be positive and don’t be fooled by the scares. If Scotland is to be independent we have to be strong..

      Long winded , i know , sorry. But remember WE ARE WINNING

    83. Paula Rose says:


    84. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Robert, there are some glitches with the comments. I had one suddenly go into moderation this afternoon, which was only a two-word correction of a typo in a post which had posted normally only a minute or so previously.

      Occasionally a comment vanishes completely. It’s a good idea to keep copies of anything you don’t want to lose – even if it’s just into the clipboard. But having said that, if Akismet takes agin a post, he seems to keep dumping it if it’s re-posted.

      One thing about Stuart, he tells people if they’re pushing his boundaries and likely to end up in moderation. Faeriefromtheearth had been posting death threats despite multiple in-thread warnings for weeks before it actually happened. So when I see people who have had posts hit by the glitches imagine Stuart has fingered them, I sort of sigh quietly.

    85. K1 says:

      Well said YESGUY…we are indeed winning 🙂

    86. Chic McGregor says:

      I have many times made the point that the oft insinuated (but never actually stated) notion that the English would exact revenge, should we ever opt for normal levels of self-government, is a baseless slur on the English as a people.

      It may very well be indicative of the base instincts of some of their ‘ruling elite’ (aka ‘pile of corrupta’) but I think even for most of them it remains a faux threat.

      The English people themselves are amongst the fairest-minded folk on the planet and we are indeed fortunate to have them as neighbours.

      And anyway, even if some of the mis-firing neuron brigade in the corridors of power did try to cobble up some such scheme, this is the 21st century and they are extremely limited in what they could get away with.

      Its a long time since the days when buccaneering was a state sanctionable activity in Europe.

    87. JLT says:

      I have family down there, determined to stay there as well but they all say it’s our choice. Nothing will change afterwards. And i take heart from that. Many are watching Scotland to see if we can do what has never been done. They will use iScotland as a way to do things differently.

      That’s exactly how the folks we visited over the weekend saw it too! The wife’s uncle also said, that if the topic ever crops up amongst their neighbours that they also say that it’s a Scottish decision. They hope it won’t happen, but will go with our decision without repercussions.

      Strange then that the only folk who are preparing for repercussions …are the Better Together mob ….yeahhhh!!!!! (….effin b*******)

    88. gordoz says:

      Guys –

      The post vanishing is quite simple (its happening to everyone at times) because of ‘Akismet software’ dealing with massive ammount of posts and spam junk emails.
      (does not like certain statements too )

      As Stu has said – please read new readers section again and submit probs issues via contact section ‘generic email’ at top of screen. He will get back to tell you what was wrong ith the post (if anything)

      If you are making a point on a bigger post then best to save it somewhere first just if in case dissappears.

      ‘Hope this helps’

    89. YESGUY says:

      Spot on JLT

      Had wee chuckle at your last line. Good on you.

      I think the BT leaders in Scotland are going to rue the day THEY FORGOT THEIR PLACE. They are supposed to act as our reps and have down the people of this country too many times to be forgiven. I doubt they will have any support after Indi and won’t be surprised if they turn on themselves.

      Sept 19th New beginning

      Hope. not fear. I canna wait

    90. Mike says:

      Good afternoon.

      First off some facts.
      1. I was born in Bucks and live in Berks.
      2. I have Scottish

    91. Mike says:

      Good afternoon.

      First off some facts.
      1. I was born in Slough, Bucks and live in Berks, I am very working class if I had to classify myself.
      2. I have Scottish welsh and indeed Irish blood in my ancestory.
      3. Due to the above I consider myself first and foremost as British, coincidentally having been born in the English bit.
      4. I have never been and will never be a supporter of the Tories or indeed any of the political parties.
      5. On this basis i see the Scottish Nationalist movement and the bid for independance as essentially having it away with a big beautiful chunk of my country!
      6. I am no happier than you about some of the things the British government has done to its own people, we have all suffered bad governments pretty well since the war. But it is up to us to change that and if someone in Berkshire suggested we would be better off on our own, even if it were financially true I would move and stay in Britain thank you very much.

      Now to the crux of the matter about spite and revenge etc. This as you point out is not the case but one very simple fact remains in my case. I love this country for all its faults. The history of Britain is unique in the world as are its contributions to the world. You may think as patriotic Scots that the bit of our islands that you live in is special but in my opinion all of these islands and all of the people in them are special. To break this up to me is perverse. From this basis my economic outlook is very simple. To make our country as prospeous as possible I have where at all possible always bought British made goods and services. I believe in my country and in my fellow countrymen, if I buy my goods and services from them and they do likewise from me it makes our country a better place. Now in the nightmare world where, as is totally possible, a minority of those elligable to vote make Scotland and those within it a foreign country to me do you think for one minute I would buy any goods or services from what I would then consider to be your ill gotten gains! This is not spite, it is a belief in your country, your fellow countrymen, those who choose to fight and win with you and very simple self interest.

    92. handclapping says:

      Hi Mike
      I’m English and live in Scotland. Like you I’ve suffered lousy government. Now I have a chance to get out from under, I’m taking it and I hope that us going will give you and those like you an example to do something for yourselves to end the bad government from Westminster you complain about.

    93. Mike says:

      Hi Handclapping

      Well I am very very sad to hear that. I am also very sad to say a Scottish Government will be not be any better than a British one. It is just the nature of life. 6 million to one or 60 million to one makes no difference I am afraid, governments by definition never suite the majority of the people they represent and please bear in mind that it is quite possible the vote will be a minority one, can you imagine how many seriously hacked off people there are going to be who’s country you will have changed beyond all recognition over night, not to mention the likes of myself who never even had a say! That is neither democratic or an example to anyone. I have travelled all around this world and lived in other countries and it is simply a fact of life. We are actually very lucky compared with some of the truly appaling regimes in the world. What I can say from my travels and life though is that we in these islands are a little different and if anyone can achieve a country of which we can all be proud it is us. My point is that we all desire the same. Having it away with a large junk of these islands on a minority vote to suffer who knows what sort of government will achieve absolutely nothing. You will simply have destroyed the one country in the world where there exists a real desire to make the world a better place for one and all. I am sorry but any new ruling elite in Scotland will be just as bent and dodgy as any other government.

    94. Mike says:

      One other thing and probably the most important of all. What a terrible betrayal of the younger generation who overwhelmingly in opinion polls are against independence. If nothing else consider them.

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