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The gums of the tiger

Posted on August 23, 2020 by

The Sunday Times carries a quite surprising story today. (And that’s not just because the person in the picture isn’t actually Liz Lloyd at all.)

We’ll pause for but a brief moment to contemplate the assertion that this unelected, unaccountable civil servant might be “the second most powerful woman in the Scottish government” and then move on to the interesting bit.

The revelation is surprising because less than a week ago the Scottish Government (in the form of no less a personage than the Deputy First Minister) was still going to a considerable amount of trouble and effort to insist that Ms Lloyd – despite having had what appears a fairly central role in the entire Salmond affair from the beginning – SHOULDN’T appear before the inquiry.

We can only hope that her sudden willingness to give evidence isn’t connected to the already-growing impression that the committee is a toothless beast which, through a combination of its own self-censorship and the Scottish Government’s shameful lack of cooperation (after Nicola Sturgeon’s repeated promises – now revealed as barefaced lies – to “provide whatever material [the committee] will request”), will produce nothing other than a tame whitewash.

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    1. 23 08 20 12:56

      The gums of the tiger | speymouth

    571 to “The gums of the tiger”

    1. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Will she give evidence as Witness L? Just asking.

    2. Milady says:

      I have never heard of Liz Lloyd. Liz Lloyd, no doesn’t ring a bell. Liz. Lloyd. Nope. Definitely not a name I have previously identified as being relevant to anything at all. No sireee.

      PS Can I go now M’lud?

    3. Sharny Dubs says:

      NS will throw anyone under the bus to try and save her skin.

      “I was only following advice / orders”

      Sound familiar?

    4. aulbea1 says:

      Maybe appear via WhatsApp??

    5. Auld Rock says:

      The “Sir Humphrey types” have always existed behind all governments both here and abroad so why be surprised?

    6. Shug says:

      Looks quite a sour face

    7. Ian McCubbin says:

      It’s disappointing that Scot Gov, FM and SNP engage in such smoke and mirrors.
      The only conclusion that can come out of this is that Scottish Government when under threat investigation will operate the same as UK Government. A white wash at best. Better to move on and get Indy done.

    8. P says:

      Honestly Rev, I feel as if my lip is now permanently curled up in disgust at this New SNP and the damage they’ve done. Lloyd is the 2nd most powerful woman in scotgov – wth?
      Did you see the latest from Glasgow Cathcart casting even more shadows over Alex Salmond?
      They all seem to have left their integrity at the door when they enter.Holyrood.
      Apologies for the rant, but…

    9. Beaker says:

      Most people had never heard of Dominic Cummings, Alistair Campbell…

      Chiefs of staff hold a unique position in politics. They are effectively the gatekeeper, in much the same way a good executive secretary is.

    10. Hughsie says:

      Heart sinks.

      We are Scottish, we are better than them

      We would never do anything like that.

      Only those lowlife english inquiries do Whitewashes. (Chilcote)

      Not anymore, we are living in Sturgeon’s Scotland now, where there is no divide between english establishment laws and Sturgeon’s laws.

      The whole thing is rotten to the core.

      Get that bastard Sturgeon and her whole damn cabal moved on as soon as physically possible.

    11. Dan Watt says:

      We’ll pause for but a brief moment to contemplate the assertion that this unelected, unaccountable civil servant might be “the second most powerful woman in the Scottish government”

      The first being Leslie Evans, amirite?

    12. Andrew Davidson says:

      @Dan Watt

      That’s what I thought too.

    13. Hughsie says:

      Can Alex Salmond disclose any bombshell evidence at this inquiry that would blow the whole thing wide open?

      This Anti-Independence tide had got to turn some time soon,,, it’s fuckin relentless.

      If you’re listenin Big Yin,,,Geez a Brek.

    14. john black says:

      Hughsie
      Don’t insult English people
      We are better than that

    15. Scot Rock says:

      Well said

    16. Eddie Munster says:

      Seems like all the hangers on that would be in Labour if they were in power are now firmly in the SNP camp

    17. kapelmeister says:

      Liz Lloyd used to be an advisor to Alyn Smith back in Daddy’s earlier years as an MEP.

    18. Hughsie says:

      And any Sturgeon Adminstration led inquiry will have the same level of trust as any english establishment inquiry would have,,,None!!!

      I’ll tell you this,,,that english Granny of Sturgeon’s has got a lot to answer for.

    19. MaggieC says:

      Interesting tweet from Mark Hirst about the picture used by the Times ,

      “ Unless she’s had major reconstructive surgery, I’m fairly certain that isn’t Liz Lloyd “

      https://mobile.twitter.com/Documark/status/1297435682982559745

      “ And then “ And as if by magic… Tada! “ ,

      https://mobile.twitter.com/Documark/status/1297469784628629504

      Someone’s made a mistake , oops ?

    20. Beaker says:

      @Hughsie says:
      23 August, 2020 at 12:54 pm

      “The english are the lowest of the low when it comes to government inquiries.
      Never believe a word an englishman says.”

      Westminster enquiries, not English.

    21. This ‘Enquiry’ will make Chilcott seem the most in depth set of revelations and repercussions ever to any government anywhere in the world. The Party I have supported all my life has become what we set out to destroy. The abused has truly become the abuser.

    22. Oneliner says:

      Doris Johnson’s security team can keep him safe in London (population 9,000,000) but have concerns about snipers in Applecross (population 544)
      Maybe the guy who put a bullet in Willie MacRae is still out there.
      Or maybe they recognise the strategic importance of the great outdoors, given the deaths of David Kelly and Robin Cook.

    23. ClanDonald says:

      From the Times twitter account last year –

      “Liz Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon’s chief of staff, deleted appointments on April 2, when the SNP leader first met Alex Salmond to discuss an inquiry into allegations of misconduct against him, a request under the Freedom of Information Act revealed”

      https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1095754056490979328

      Of course, we now know the “first met” part of that statement isn’t accurate as Nicola Sturgeon met Salmond before this, as finally admitted by the Scottish Government recently:

      “NICOLA Sturgeon had a meeting connected to the Alex Salmond affair which she did not declare to MSPs, the Scottish Government has confirmed. The meeting, on 29 March 2018 with Mr Salmond’s former chief of staff, will now be examined by the independent adviser on the Scottish Ministerial Code…”

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18625175.salmond-affair-government-confirms-sturgeon-previously-undisclosed-meeting/

    24. tridentitycrisis says:

      Cards on the table. I’ve voted SNP at Holyrood constituency level and Green on the List ever since the Greens embraced independence. While I agree with their environmental stance, I would not vote for them if they were not pro-indy. Thus I’m OK with the idea of a pro-indy List party challenging the SNP.
      I think a List party headed by Alex Salmond would scoop up possibly 20 seats, and is more likely to attract substantial support than a Wings party.
      I think the Wings website was instrumental in winning over a large chunk of the working-class vote that moved over to the Yes side between 2012 and 2014. We owe Stuart a large debt for that.
      I like both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. I believe that each was/is an essential factor in moving us towards independence.
      Support for independence is now apparently steady at 54/55%. I would suggest that the reason we have gained this significant increase is because over the last two years, but even more so over the last five months, there has been a demonstration to a wider public that is not as focused on politics as us blog readers, that Scotland is capable of governing itself competently. That Scotland actually governs itself better when it diverges from the path taken by London. You might not agree with this analysis, but it is the perception of a large number of people, and importantly of people who were previously not independence supporters. These are the people whose impression counts and whose votes we need to attract. We should accept every convert, even if we think they are doing it for a misguided reason.
      This perceptual change is very important at a macro, psychological or gut level. It undermines that part of the Scottish cringe that still implies that we are too wee/stupid/poor to govern ourselves. No Scot really wants to believe that, but it is hard to shake off when it’s been an underlying trope for decades. Furthermore, few people become converted by listening to economic arguments or even political ones. It’s only when there is an attitude of mind that is open to change that these arguments can gain purchase and REINFORCE an already solidifying worldview. Rationality almost always follows emotionality.
      I agree that there are some elements of the SNP who are unpalatable, there are some decidedly flabby policies, Andrew Wilson’s Growth Commission Report is anodyne and lacking ambition, and the Gender Recognition Bill is fatally flawed. I find the attacks on Alex Salmond appalling. However, I hold the prospect of independence higher than the need for ideological purity or even decency. I am prepared to put aside my dislike of individuals such as Fergus Ewing, Jim Sillars and even conservatives who support independence ( eg Michael Fry) until such time as our central goal is achieved. Rejecting the SNP or boycotting The National is as blinkered as the awful Wokerati in the movement who have their priorities arse-about-elbow.
      I’m prepared to cut the SNP, and above all Nicola Sturgeon, more slack, because it is her perceived performance as a competent leader who has handled the “day job” during the Covid-19 crisis far better than the imbeciles in London which has persuaded many of those recent converts that independence is a less risky proposition than they thought just a few months ago. I’m also prepared to believe that she really will commit to pursuing independence by one means or another after the May 2021 election. Indeed, I think she will have no choice, since the swell of indy support which she has effectively created will push her into it. There is a momentum that has picked up even without an overt campaign – and we critics of the SNP ought to catch that tide and help push it onwards.
      Polls are one way of perceiving a significant shift in attitudes. Anecdotal evidence can also help. My hairdresser voted for independence in 2014 although it was clear she was not completely certain that she was making the right choice. By 2016 she had changed to a No voter. But then, when I saw her for the first time since lockdown, without prompting she said she thought Nicola Sturgeon was doing a great job. Turns out she’s now a much firmer supporter of independence than she was in 2014. I’m not going to deter her and thousands like her who are moving over to our side by pointing out the flaws of the SNP. After independence, yes – definitely.
      So, in conclusion, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Grit your teeth and don’t split the movement as the Unionists pray that we will. After all, even the most critical of us ARE going to give the SNP our constituency vote – aren’t we?

    25. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Hughsie @ 12.54pm

      May I refer you to the wise words of Mr Mark Renton, of Leith:

      “It’s SHITE being Scottish! We’re the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don’t. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We’re ruled by effete assholes. It’s a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won’t make any fucking difference.

      The English may get a lot of blame for the way Scotland is colonized and disparaged, unfortunately, there are an awful lot of “Proud Scots, But,” prepared to help in this cause.

    26. kapelmeister says:

      I’ve got an idea for a novel. A British prime minister visits Scotland and nobody attempts to assassinate him, or even accost him. But a third rate Scottish historian tries to engender collective Scottish angst with the notion that the prime minister was “unsafe”.

      Working title – The Day Of The Jackass.

    27. robbo says:

      Hughsie – lol

      Heavens sake people.This clown has been plaguing this site for months.Stop engaging ,he’s a wrong un.

    28. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi ClanDonald.

      Your second link was archived two weeks ago.

      http://archive.is/blIlf

    29. Mialuci says:

      all you so called proud scots, what will you do with your vote come referendum time, will you say, we will not vote, and I will say yes you won’t vote, but would you be willing to come back and vote many years from now when your lying in your scratchers ready to snuff it, and want to go back and use your vote, but it will be to late then, cause the unionists will still be in power and Boris Johnstone’s son will probably be the keeper of the scottish purse and everything in it, and poor old yous, all those years gone by and still never had a pot to piss in

    30. robertknight says:

      What will her opening lines be?

      “I come to bury Salmond, not to praise him.”

      This whole tawdry affair could’ve been penned by Bill Shakespeare given the amount of treachery and skulduggery going on behind the scenes.

      I’m sure there’d be plenty of names forthcoming when considering who could play a contemporary equivalent of Brutus, Lady Macbeth, Hamlet’s ghost, etc. etc.

      Suggestions on a postcard please to:

      Bute House
      6 Charlotte Square
      EDINBURGH
      EH2 4DR

    31. LeggyPeggy says:

      There is the get-out clause from Leslie Evans in the official report from Tuesday’s committee meeting report ,

      “ As is standard procedure but I will say for the record, I want to be clear that I and any civil servant giving evidence to the committee will be doing so on behalf of ministers and not in a personal capacity “ .

      http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=12746&mode=pdf

      So they don’t want to be held liable for any involvement by any of their actions carried out by the civil servants in the Scottish Gov .

      So the blame lies fair and square on Nicola Sturgeon’s shoulders for this whole affair and it’s time that she took responsibility for it . Hopefully when Alex appears before the committee he will be allowed to put the evidence forward which caused the collapse by the Scot Gov conceding the civil case which he won against the Scottish Gov .

    32. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This quote is from Rev Stu’s first (graphic) link above:-

      “In a letter to Lloyd in July, the committee sought answers on when she was first made aware of the existence of complaints against Salmond, what action she took and the extent, if any, of her involvement in the decision to refer the complaints from female civil servants to the police.
      Lloyd brokered conversations between Sturgeon and Salmond about the issue in the spring of 2018.”

      As I typed yesterday, this quote is from Wark’s mouth in ‘The Trial Of Alex Salmond’:-

      “When Salmond’s former chief of staff Geoff Aberdein took the stand he added fuel to the political firestorm. He stated he’d met Nicola Sturgeon and one of the women on the 29th March 2018.”

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-second-opinion/comment-page-1/#comment-2558885

      This debacle is developing into the stinkiest stinky stink in the history of stinky stinks.

    33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Of course, we now know the “first met” part of that statement isn’t accurate as Nicola Sturgeon met Salmond before this, as finally admitted by the Scottish Government recently:

      “NICOLA Sturgeon had a meeting connected to the Alex Salmond affair which she did not declare to MSPs, the Scottish Government has confirmed. The meeting, on 29 March 2018 with Mr Salmond’s former chief of staff, will now be examined by the independent adviser on the Scottish Ministerial Code…””

      That doesn’t actually say she met Salmond, it says she met Geoff Aberdein.

    34. Breeks says:

      Oneliner says:
      23 August, 2020 at 1:11 pm
      Doris Johnson’s security team can keep him safe in London (population 9,000,000) but have concerns about snipers in Applecross (population 544)…

      In fairness, you probably can’t rule out American Trophy Hunters who’ve been encouraged to see shooting dumb hairy animals roaming the Scottish countryside as ‘big’ game.

    35. Mialuci says:

      Some of you people are quite funny in your comments, why should anyone in politics be any different than anyone else, I have been lied about a few times and every time I won my case in court because the court eventually throws it out on the last day because I would not plead guilty to the false charges against me, nothing happened to the liars, as they never appeared to take the oath that would have given them room and board at one the queens many barred roomed houses
      my point is, very few people play by the rules any longer and lying has become a national pastime it seems to me, vote for Independence , we don’t have to like who we vote for ( SNP )
      but we will cut our own throats if we don’t vote SNP, we can deal with any wrongdoers later, and later will come believe me

    36. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’m also prepared to believe that she really will commit to pursuing independence by one means or another after the May 2021 election.”

      This is where we differ. If she’s still in power by then, she’ll do absolutely nothing about it other than more empty grandstanding about how disgraceful it is that WM won’t give us another Section 30.

    37. Polly says:

      Good reporting there. Another politician also had a senior advisor called Liz Lloyd, if I remember correctly. Tony Blair had his own advisor, different woman but same name. Some wonder why folk think Sturgeon is like Blair in many ways, but perhaps they’re right and that might not be the only resemblance.

    38. robertknight says:

      Polly

      However in this case WMD stands for ‘Westminster Must Decide’.

    39. Mialuci says:

      Will you still vote for the SNP, or does independence not matter to you, just asking, and btw, would you cut your nose off to spite your face, cause if you do not vote SNP that is exactly what you would be doing, all those on here that want to start some other mythical independence party have never lived under unionism with as much dread as I have over the past 50 voting years of my life,
      Will it never end, the unionist will stop at nothing to stop our march to freedom and some of you still can’t seem to grasp that pertinent fact of life in UK politics

    40. Josef Ó Luain says:

      @tridentitycrises

      Knowingly backing political stooges and incompetents, has more than a whiff of prostitution, about it. Each-to-his-own, of course.

    41. Confused says:

      all the names, implied, alluded – could all be found ages ago – I tellt ye, I tellt ye – by a bit of googling, reading articles in the mainstream press (still there!), and most of all by use of LinkedIN and its own search – all these folks are quite narcissistic and can never stop talking about themselves and how great they are; you can find them all there, most anyway.

      history repeats … something, something …

      overarching themes : sex scandals, wimmin

      – salmond is attacked by a cabal of women, who seemed to resent him; knives out the handbags; one woman in particular felt she was owed a favour in the form of a seat

      earlier

      – sheridan embroiled in a sex scandal; it always looked to me like a spooky job there, low-key, but the initial information came from inside his own party, likely his own lieutenants, women who -resented- the “big man” and felt they were not getting enough attention

      anyone care to comment on second point?

    42. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      You know, given the oestrogen-charged upper echelons of the milk-curdling-face female SNP these days, Alex Salmond must have been positively spoiled for choice in women to not assault. I wouldn’t have gone anywhere near any of them either. “That motherfucker’s ugly enough to frighten the wrinkles out of a MULE’S ass!” – Dolemite.

    43. tridentitycrisis says:

      “oestrogen-charged upper echelons of the milk-curdling-face female SNP”
      Once upon a time this site did not even allow contributors to call the Labour leader Joanne Lamentable. Now we see Nicola Sturgeon called a c**t and misogynist abuse like the above. Get the hammers out.
      Do you ever suspect there are agent provocateurs infiltrating this blog in the comments? Or are they just unpleasant neds?

    44. Cath says:

      “Lloyd brokered conversations between Sturgeon and Salmond about the issue in the spring of 2018.”

      At this point, Salmond would have still been totally in the dark about what the accusations were and who was making them, right? Under the new investigation procedure Lloyd helped create?

    45. Breeks says:

      The worry for the whole of Scotland, is that this inquiry won’t be dirty enough to persuade the wokies and SNP diehards that Nicola is a rogue and a wrong’un, but nor will it vindicate her and clear the air adequately enough to console those of us with profound misgivings about Nicola’s integrity and the SNP’s utterly dismal grand strategy.

      If Sturgeon decides to brass this out, and she clearly intends to, we Indy supporters will remain a house divided until the 2021 Scottish Elections either make her or break her. (And I believe the GRA reforms and hostile UK media will demolish her).

      It’s probably for that very reason that the “Establishment” will not allow this Inquiry to be decisive either way, and a whitewash to be celebrated in the BritNat media is almost inevitable. They will look after Sturgeon as a lame duck which half the Indy community blindly adores, while the other half cannot abide and wouldn’t trust as far as they could throw her. That will suit their agenda just fine.

      Scotland’s fate, as ever, let down by politicians, and salvation might now depend on Martin Keatings being able to see his test case over Section 30 blossoming into a full blown Constitutional standoff which neither Westminster nor Holyrood have the capacity to suppress or contain.

      It’s not the legal battle I’d have chosen to fight, but beggars can’t be choosers and I have more faith in him than the current Scottish Government. I have said it from the beginning, Scotland’s predicament is Constitutional, and no matter how much of a dog’s breakfast it’s turned into by politicians, Scottish Independence will ultimately come down to the question of Constitutional sovereignty, and whether the case for Scottish Sovereignty can demolish the fallacy of UK Sovereign Convention.

      Why in God’s name must Scotland always do things the hard way?

    46. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘tridentitycrisis says:
      23 August, 2020 at 2:38 pm
      “oestrogen-charged upper echelons of the milk-curdling-face female SNP”

      I knew I would get called misogynist, and I found it funny. I was genuinely waiting for it, and looking forward to it. Look at the amount of genuinely anti-male propaganda in the media and politics these days. You ever complain about any of that? No? Funny that, eh?

      If any man says anything critical of women these days he is called (yawn) ‘misogynist.’ What I did is something called, eh…JOKING. Scotland used to have a sense of humour. I know this is 2020, and imported American political extremist humourlessness has tried to kill off our laughter over here, but I will not stop having a laugh in a vile, horrible world, about vile, horrible situtions.

      Un-PC humour is far less deranged and psychotic and opposite sex-hating than the bleak black joke of trying to send an innocent man to prison for the rest of his life for twisted political reasons. If you are capable of ratiocination, please consider that, and jump off your ‘men insulting women’ overly-sensitive Shetland Pony moral high horse. Women like those involved in the Salmond case do not need insulting. They insult themselves, and other women, and real sexual assault victims.

    47. stonefree says:

      @ kapelmeister at 12:47 pm

      “Liz Lloyd used to be an advisor to Alyn Smith back in Daddy’s earlier years as an MEP.” I should be surprised , but as this pig sty unfolds , I’m not

    48. Andy says:

      I hope its a toothless committee considering its a stitch up smear attempt dreamt up by the pro Yoon parties in the Scottish Parliament trying desperately to link the Alex Salmond persecution to the Scottish Government in order to divert away from the fact that the entire campaign is being conducted by the English Government through the Civil service. I still dont understand why Wings has jumped into bed with them though?

    49. Marshall Adair says:

      Socrates … “arseholes”, not “assholes”.

    50. kapelmeister says:

      tridentitycrisis @2:38

      I never think of Nicola Sturgeon anymore as a celt.

    51. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘kapelmeister says:
      23 August, 2020 at 2:47 pm
      tridentitycrisis @2:38

      I never think of Nicola Sturgeon anymore as a celt.’

      A Celt? She’s a cu…lt. A cult leader. 🙂

    52. Capella says:

      Liz Lloyd was special economics advisor to Alex Salmond. He mentions her several times in “The Dream Shall Never Die”.

    53. Oneliner says:

      @tridentitycrisis

      I’m in. Let’s sort the wheat from the chaff after we become independent.

      Nothing in the polls indicated that the % increase achieved by Alex Salmond was ever going to be replicated by Nicola Sturgeon. I blame that mostly on the media support of unionist entrenchment – the ‘Vow’ anyone? Where’s Murray Foote in all this?

      I don’t see many strategists on here, mostly detractors.

      Nicola Sturgeon is a means to an end. I am not a great fan, but cannot blame her for playing a waiting game. Nothing thus far has indicated that a more precipitate approach would have won any of the fearties over, Now, it’s shaping up for game on – the current shenanigans are a distraction (how did that happen? – I repeat, how did that happen?)

      Don’t for one minute underestimate the escape and evasion / disinformation capabilities of Whitehall. It’s the under 35s that really frighten them. 70%+ in favour of independence could mean that brown trousers become standard issue for CSS

      Finally, full marks to Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp for getting some polling action up and running.

    54. Astonished says:

      I think everyone is now guessing at the conspirators against Mr Salmond. Out of thousands investigated and questioned only 9 conspired against him.

      They lied and continue to do so, aided by the BBC. Their downfall will be soon and delicious.

      Remember don’t vote woke.

      Regarding the public inquiry, if it is a whitewash we will all know about it. And I am certain Liz Lloyd did not expect to be appearing.

      Karma is coming.

    55. Beaker says:

      Alex Neil is retiring as an MSP.

      Not always been his greatest fan but well impressed by the way he has stood up against the Scot Govt and NHS Lanarkshire about the location for the new Monklands Hospital (I have a vested interest even though I don’t line there). In addition, I don’t think him and Sturgeon get on.

      Wonder if his replacement will be of the same calibre or be one of the “new breed”.

    56. kapelmeister says:

      Oneliner @2:53

      “Nicola Sturgeon is a means to an end.”

      ROFL. Priceless!

    57. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Astonished says:

      And I am certain Liz Lloyd did not expect to be appearing.’

      In a wider context, that is hilarious. Or would be, if it were funny.

    58. McDuff says:

      I see it’s been reported that AS may sue the BBC over their scandlous documentary about his trial.
      If true and he needs to crowdfund, I’m in.

    59. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “If Sturgeon decides to brass this out, and she clearly intends to, we Indy supporters will remain a house divided until the 2021 Scottish Elections either make her or break her.”

      It’s clear that the inquiry will have a tough time on its hands trying to establish she was involved in a conspiracy against Salmond, because even if it wanted to that’s not its remit.

      What I don’t currently see a way for her to survive is the absolutely iron-clad fact that she lied to Parliament about when she knew about it. The Scottish Government has already all but admitted this, and even in the shameless political climate of 2020 there SHOULD be no possibility for a First Minister to get away with being officially found to have lied to Parliament without resigning.

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      I think the whole process will be stymied by a lack of real cooperation from the SNP, to cooperate fully would be far too damaging to them. I fully expect the committee to rail and complain about the lack of forthcoming from SNP\Civil Service personnel,but ultimately the book will be closed on this with a great big red stamp on the front of the dossier saying inconclusive.

      It will then be filed away, and occasionally mentioned by the British nationalist parties at Holyrood and the British nationalist media, unless Alex Salmond decides to reveal more .

    61. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Who would be the best person to replace her? Seriously. This may well have been ascertained in certain cognoscenti quarters but, if so, I missed it, sorry. I regard the modern SNP as such a hotel fire I can barely see the wood for the trees, the good candidates (who surely exist, but I am not enough of a political anorak to know them, probably) from the bad.

      Listening to The Gonzo Tapes by Hunter S Thompson, back when the world was not a total cuntfest. Raising a beer to the fighters.

    62. Capella says:

      What I heard NS say to Parliament was that she first discussed it with Alex Salmond on the 2nd April, which is probably true. That was the Monday following the meeting with Geoff Aberdein and her Chief of Staff on 29th March to arrange a meeting with Alex Salmond.

      However, there’s no doubt the unionists believe they can make the allegation, that she broke the ministerial code, stick.

    63. Capella says:

      It all depends on what she actually said. I can’t be bothered checking the transcript atm. But there’s a difference between “I first heard of it…” and “I first heard from Alex Salmond…”

    64. robertknight says:

      The establishment pigs are up on their hind trotters I see, walking around telling us to blindy entrust Scotland’s future to Sturgeon’s SNP and to vote SNPx2 come what may.

      For despite the Salmond witch-hunt, the GRA, the Wokeist-coup, the NEC/Cherry shenanigans, the Hate Crime Bill, is it not Sturgeon’s SNP and they alone who can deliver to us salvation in the form of Independence?

      You been holding Squealer’s ladder again Mialuci? What revised Commandment can we expect to see this week? “Holyrood Good, Westminster Better”?

    65. Beaker says:

      @Capella says:
      23 August, 2020 at 3:20 pm
      “However, there’s no doubt the unionists believe they can make the allegation, that she broke the ministerial code, stick.”

      Self-inflicted wounds by the look of it. Breaking the ministerial code is indefensible, no matter who it is. However, assuming that is the case, is it a legal requirement that someone who breaks the ministerial code MUST resign? Would someone try to ride out the political storm?

    66. McDuff says:

      I think she might resign as she is not interested in independence and this is a perfect out for her.

    67. Nork Defender says:

      “sheridan embroiled in a sex scandal; it always looked to me like a spooky job there, low-key, but the initial information came from inside his own party, likely his own lieutenants, women who -resented- the “big man” and felt they were not getting enough attention”

      I would never normally get involved, but I could not resist this as it is remarkably insightful. My ex-wife was one of the key tell-tales against Sheridan and she is absolutely an attention seeker. While he did wrong, I can only imagine the glee she felt with all the attention and ruthlessly sticking it to him.

    68. Capella says:

      AFAIK yes she will have to resign if proven to have broken the ministerial code. That is what the unionists meant when they said she would be gone by April. Covid intervened, as with everything else.
      “Proven” is the operative word.

    69. Ron Maclean says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell 3:06pm

      ‘… and even in the shameless political climate of 2020 there SHOULD be no possibility for a First Minister to get away with being officially found to have lied to Parliament without resigning.’

      She could still do a lot of damage if she survives as leader of the SNP.

    70. SilverDarling says:

      This is going to be a bit awkward and reminiscent of that Fawlty Towers episode where you must not mention the War. Is everyone going to continue to pretend they don’t know what is going on?

      I see the strategy for BetterTogether2 is everyone who supports Independence is racist. Strange times indeed.

    71. Fireproofjim says:

      Got to agree with those on this thread who say that there is absolutely no alternative to voting SNP if Independence is the goal.
      The list candidates are another thing.. if a strong, single party can be created and advertised by Spring 2021 they may have a chance to increase the Independence vote in Holyrood. Personally I doubt if there is a enough time.
      After independence It will be for the Scottish people to decide the shape of our government, but it must be made impossible for the “proud Scot buts” to reverse that independence decision.
      OT- The Sunday Times was in full anti-independence mode today. About six articles saying it was impossible and only anti Letters. All saying too poor, too small and dependent on England’s generosity.

    72. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not convinced it’s all the fault of English grannies. I had one myself, which proves absolutely nothing to anyone. 🙂

      P.S. Prpoer “woke” does not deny biological reality, it privileges “vulnerability”.

      Philosophy, Ethics, and Humanities in Medicine volume 14, Article number: 6 (2019)
      The concept of vulnerability in medical ethics and philosophy

      https://peh-med.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13010-019-0075-6

    73. Kenny says:

      I find it interesting that the High Priestess of Wokeness says we must reach 60% before calling an indyref… yet certainly does not think GRA should have 60% support (!!) before pushing ahead with it.

      It is also interesting that the HPW has chosen 60% as the starting point. 60% in voting is the cut-off point in which anything above that generally means that a vote is not competitive. What I mean is that 60% is VERY hard to get in a democracy. Is that the reason why she has chosen 60%?

      Because a campaign for indy would be positive, the starting point for a campaign should be when support for indy passes 45%. Similarly, no work really needs to be done: just concentrating on the over 55s. The other age groups are already for indy. So just focus on the one age group and you are home.

    74. CmonIndy says:

      Hello. Just popped back to see how frantic the hatefest against Nicola Sturgeon has got.
      Yep, pretty caustic. Fortunately, Scotland will become Independent DESPITE the efforts of most contributors left on here.
      Oh, wait, maybe it’s the prospect of a Wings party, or ISP or AFI or SalmondInc that has driven Yes to 55%?
      Whatchathink?

    75. David Grierson says:

      Who is the woman standing next to Nicola in the picture?

    76. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘Because a campaign for indy would be positive, …’

      The 2014 campaign was a positive campaign because as everyone knows positive campaigns always beat negative campaigns.

      ‘ Similarly, no work really needs to be done:’

      Should suit Nicola Sturgeon.

    77. Allium says:

      Is there still any appetite amongst Unionists for ousting Nicola? Maybe, If Daddy was guaranteed to replace her, but can they take the risk?

    78. Beaker says:

      @Kenny says:
      23 August, 2020 at 3:43 pm
      “no work really needs to be done: just concentrating on the over 55s. The other age groups are already for indy. So just focus on the one age group and you are home.”

      Never make big assumptions, that’s how you lose.

    79. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘CmonIndy says:
      23 August, 2020 at 3:54 pm
      Hello. Just popped back to see how frantic the hatefest against Nicola Sturgeon has got.’

      Yawn. Hilarious. Fucking off back to whatsmysexland. 🙂

    80. Cath says:

      I find it interesting that the High Priestess of Wokeness says we must reach 60% before calling an indyref… yet certainly does not think GRA should have 60% support (!!) before pushing ahead with it.

      Yes, there’s also an interesting contradiction between

      Independence: “We must respect no voters totally, listen to their concerns, not just shout at them or abuse them but argue them round cautiously and politely”

      GRA/women’s rights “OK, boomer, you’re all bigots, shut up you hag faced old TERF”

      Especially bearing in mind the age group we need to win over for independence.

    81. robertknight says:

      CmonIndy!

      Come back!

      You’ve left your guide dog behind!

    82. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Who is the woman standing next to Nicola in the picture?”

      Been trying to figure it out without success. The pic was taken at the premiere of The Outlaw King in 2018, that’s all I know.

    83. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It all depends on what she actually said. I can’t be bothered checking the transcript atm. But there’s a difference between “I first heard of it…” and “I first heard from Alex Salmond…””

      She says explicitly that she first heard about it on 2 April 2018, from Salmond. Which is bullshit. We know that she met Geoff Aberdein on 29 March. What the fuck did they talk about if not that?

    84. Scozzie says:

      It will be a complete whitewash – Linda Fabiani has seen to that already with her stance that it’s not appropriate to ask questions on whether it was policy for females to not work alone with Alex Salmond (we know there is no evidence of such policy or procedure, just an allegation in court that was demolished by defense witnesses.)

      If the Inquiry is to have any integrity or teeth then these and any other questions should be asked about this matter to the actors involved. Nothing should be off limits.

      The whole point of an Inquiry surely is to get to the truth…between heavily redacted evidence, evidence being withheld under legal privilege (or whatever it’s called). The whole thing is starting to look like a sham.

      And all the while the architects of this retrospective policy is at the heart of the NS inner circle.

      If NS continues her claim to be blissfully unaware of what was being concocted then she deserves to go just out of sheer incompetence of not having control of her position as First Minister, government and leader of the SNP.

      However, I suspect she had full knowledge, full responsibility, and was an instrumental figure in this revised policy just as Lesley Evans finger pointed just a couple of days ago.

    85. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘The peasants are revolting!’

      😉

      twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1297540194841788416

    86. Doug Buchannan says:

      There are some sane voices on here, but a small and decreasing number!

      What is the purpose of Wings?

      Obvious conclusion is to damage the SNP, in the belief this boosts the need and cause for a new party.

      It is a high risk strategy, damage the cause (Independence!) you support when it is at unprecedented heights of popularity.

      Ignore the duplicity, incompetence, mistakes and lies of the opponent (unionism) when it is on a downward dying spiral!

      The abuse towards females and the FM in particular is not only distasteful, it is disturbing and disgusting!

      There appear to be little or no new revelations from this inquiry, the opposition grubbing round for dirt have been thwarted. The inquiry looks like ending in a whimper!

      This site is about ego and people who are easily led, it never used to be that way, Quite the opposite, how sad!

    87. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This site is about ego and people who are easily led, it never used to be that way, Quite the opposite, how sad!”

      This site is about independence, same as always. The SNP are currently enemies of that cause. If you don’t like it here, feel free to fuck right off.

    88. kapelmeister says:

      The Sturgeon True Defenders are out in numbers today. Or is it just Pete Wishart and his collection of aliases?

    89. Capella says:

      Well “I first heard about it on 2nd April FROM Alex Salmond” would be true though. I maybe also heard it from other people earlier but that’s not what I said.

      The 29th April 2018 was a Thursday. The 1st April was the following Monday. The discussion could have been along the lines of “I really think you need to speak to Alex Salmond about some serious allegations First Minister” “OK when?” “ASAP” “OK Monday?”

      Liz Lloyd has explicitly said she did not tell Nicola Sturgeon about the accusations against Alex Salmond in March.

    90. Thomas Potter says:

      Hi folks, sorry for the late comment.
      This ‘inquiry’ will be a load of crap, but it will keep Indy/SNP/Sturgeon/Salmond on the, let’s face it, anti-Indy MSM circus for days and weeks,which is a slim positive.
      Project Fear part.142 has been unleashed on us from that very same ‘MSM’ ,and molten rain and hellfire will be showered upon us till the day we have Indy cos the Union is peeing it’s pants.

      So far all the old Project Fear agendas are being pushed –
      Rampant IRA?
      Bumrush Boris not safe in Scotland?
      Impending Economic disaster….again?
      Worthless Oil?
      No defence after Trident flung out?
      ETC.ETC.ETC.

      It’s positively hilarious.

      Do me a favour and let’s just get Indy done this time.

      Better Together?

      Sure.

    91. Ron Maclean says:

      @Doug Buchannan 4:41pm

      ‘What is the purpose of Wings?’

      Scroll to the top and click on “About us” next to ‘Home’.

    92. Scozzie says:

      Doug Buchannan

      What about the duplicity, incompetence, mistakes and lies of the SNP?

      Duplicity – seeking endless mandates and not delivering on them.
      Incompetence – trying to stop Brexit when they should have been using Brexit to deliver independence.
      Mistakes – GRA, Hate Crime Bill.
      Lies – the Salmond stitch up.

      This site and its BTL commentators are independence supporters that are trying to keep the SNP honest.

      Does it not worry you that there are so many SNP MSPs standing down in advance of next year’s election, conveniently to make way for woke nobodies?

      Does it not worry you that we have competent MPs that are being prevented from standing in HR unless they first resign as MPs?

      Yeah, good luck voting in Rhiannon Spears and her ilk….I await with baited breath them delivering independence.

    93. Jim Forsyth says:

      And STILL we get the Sturgeon apologists who are blinded by their loyalty to a proven liar.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t want to go OT but it looks like that’s the way it’s going already. I appreciate some see it as a useful ‘handle’, but “woke” isn’t a proper descriptor for those supporting the proposed GRA amendments.

      Vulnerable groups: The promise of an emerging concept in European Human Rights Convention law

      Abstract

      The concept of vulnerable groups is gaining momentum in the case law of the European Court of Human Rights. The Court has so far used it in cases concerning Roma, people with mental disabilities, people living with HIV, and asylum seekers. Yet the appearance of the vulnerable-group concept in the Court’s legal reasoning has so far escaped scholarly attention.

      Drawing on theoretical debates on vulnerability as well as on the Court’s case law, this article offers a critical assessment of the concept. Reasoning in terms of vulnerable groups opens a number of possibilities, most notably, the opportunity to move closer to a more robust idea of equality. However, the concept also has some inherent difficulties. This article argues for a reflective use of the concept and points out ways in which the Court can avoid its pitfalls.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/4/1056/698712

    95. Jim Forsyth says:

      Capella

      Defending the indefensible.

      Nicola us guilty,,,get over it.

      You are flogging a dead horse Mrs.

    96. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie 5:28pm

      ‘I don’t want to go OT but …’

      Well don’t then.

    97. Craig Murray says:

      the committee is designed to be toothless and appears to be working very hard to ensure it gets nowhere near the truth.

    98. shiregirl says:

      Scozzie says @5.16pm:
      “Yeah, good luck voting in Rhiannon Spears and her ilk…”

      Indeed, Make no mistake. The goal of the wokie brigade is most definitely not Independence. I actually have no clue as to what their goal is or where they all came from or why they zoned in on the SNP.

      A question. Can NS and the Scottish Government just not hand over evidence to the AS enquiry and state privilege or are they required to? Is there means to ensure they hand over (unredacted) evidence? I’m hoping AS pulls an absolute belter and provides lots of evidence…

    99. twathater says:

      HERE is an EASY ONE for the NS apologists , how’s about ALL you people get NS to DITCH THE GRA , THE HCB and SET a date for INDY2 then ALL US indy supporters will vote SNP in GOOD CONCIENCE knowing that ALL EVIL POLICIES will be discussed AFTER INDEPENDENCE SURELY if Saint Nicola WANTS INDY she will accede to OUR and your demands , that should be an easy ask

    100. Big Jock says:

      I have a friend who was a constant loyal defender of Sturgeon.

      The many times I tried to point out the facts. The more excuses that person found to dismiss my concerns.

      2 weeks ago after the enquiry revealed the chicanery of Sturgeon. That all changed. They now think Sturgeon is a disloyal control freak with no plan A never mind a plan B.

      Nicola has lost it!

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I can just as easily get back on topic, but I do get a bit triggered by misrepresentation. It’s just the post-colonial feminist in me. 😉

      Summary: How public inquiries can lead to change
      https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-how-public-inquiries-can-lead-change

    102. Scozzie says:

      Capella @ 4.53pm
      So what was the point of the 29th March meeting at the First Minister’s office with Geoff Aberdein and the Chief of Staff – was it just tea and biscuits?
      Capella you’re a smart lady. That meeting had a purpose.

    103. Bob Mack says:

      @Capella,

      If course it was just pure coincidence that Nicola informed Leslie Evans she would like a new policy created to include former First Ministers in disciplinary policy.

      By the way,I have a former client who has died and left millions in a foreign bank accounts etc etc etc. Probably more believable.

    104. Denise says:

      Does Alex Salmond have evidence of the conspiracy? The evidence that was not presented in court ?
      When will we hear it?

    105. Ottomanboi says:

      Nicola Sturgeon would be a real asset….if she were on side.

    106. jockmcx says:

      politics!

      who knew?

    107. Jim Forsyth says:

      Denise 5.52pm

      I am also puzzled why Alex Salmond is “sitting” on evidence.

      Hopefully all will be revealed soon.

      Alex surely has to show his hand sometime soon, so we can put this sorry episode to bed and get on with organising the List Party and get our fight for Independence back on the road.

    108. Big Jock says:

      Alex Salmond is a heart and soul nationalist. He will not do something that might jeapordise the independence movement.

      He might be angry right now, but he knows the cause is more important than himself.

    109. Jim Forsyth says:

      So if Sturgeon has been found to be telling lies to Parliament she could be away within the month???

      That is just too good to be true.

    110. mike cassidy says:

      Young Scots.

      What are they like,eh?

      https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1297490036586360834

      Here’s a link to the poll itself

      https://comresglobal.com/polls/free-to-disagree-free-speech-poll-august-2020/

      And a link to The Scotsman’s take

      http://archive.is/DDhjS

    111. Ottomanboi says:

      Covid-19 as a pretext for social engineering is gaining some traction. Zoom into (controllable) cyber life.
      Sturgeon’s allegiance to the apocalyptic virus narrative suggests she has no reservations about hammering square pegs into round holes. Ouch!
      Give politicians the hammer of authority and……we all get a headache.

    112. Mike d says:

      As sergeant wilson (dads army) would say, do you think thats wise.

    113. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie 5:48pm

      If it got too much for me I might be forced into reading the comments on ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ and ‘Scot goes Pop’. You wouldn’t wish that on me, would you?

    114. defo says:

      I’m beginning to think that the current strategy is to make Holyrood resemble Westminster to the point where peeps ask themselves, ‘what’s the point in Independence?’

      We love you too Doug

      🙂

    115. Denise says:

      @Big Jock

      But as a nationalist would he leave Scotland at the mercy of a woman who if it’s true must be a sociopath.
      Surely he would realise it’s in Scotlands interests that the truth will come out.
      I’ll be very disappointed if he rolls over on this.

    116. Kevin Kennedy says:

      Not sure if you are able to view Twitter ? but that wee snake Dornan is currently crawling on his belly for the Murrells.

      https://twitter.com/glasgowcathcart/status/1297316193192284165

    117. Alf Baird says:

      Mark Renton of Leith must be right if we cannae find anybody in Scotland good enough to be the FM’s chief of staff or the SG permy secretary – the two ‘most powerful’ posts in Scotland after FM.

    118. Meg merrilees says:

      Breeks: I can’t imagine any ‘sniper’ being able to withstand West Coast midgies – you definitely don’t need security guys when it’s midgie season.

      Plus, Applecross – isn’t exactly the easiest place in the world to actually find.

      All a sham, methinks!

    119. shug says:

      I do hope Salmond does not pursue Wark and Co in the courts

      You just know they will get a unionist judge who would never challenge the power of the BBC and at best award him a penny

      Better to let them be seen by their ridiculous programme.

    120. Mike d says:

      Mialuci 1.54pm. The ‘proudscotbuts’ will die happy with their drowned heads in englands piss pot, knowing the union they didnt have the guts to leave will f*** up their grandchildrens lives. Especially when same grandkids have to emigrate for a better future. But then again knuckle dragging ludge supporters dont have a future in a modern educated world.probably why they have the attitude they have. Stupid is as stupid does.

    121. robbo says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      23 August, 2020 at 3:37 pm
      @Rev. Stuart Campbell 3:06pm

      ‘… and even in the shameless political climate of 2020 there SHOULD be no possibility for a First Minister to get away with being officially found to have lied to Parliament without resigning.’

      She could still do a lot of damage if she survives as leader of the SNP.

      ———-

      Aye maybe, but the yoons sure gonna luv that . Any slightest chance them taking control in Holyrood and we’re all fecked.

      So “this is another fine mess you’ve got us into Stanley” moments

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3qcj2MzPYc

    122. MattyP says:

      Re Alex viewing the cause as bigger than himself, I believe that is absolutely true. But if a conspiracy has indeed occurred in order to prevent his return to politics and the final push towards independence then surely there is no competing issue here.

      If Alex believes Nicola will never bite the bullet then why would he protect her? Yes the polls have at last risen but not due to any positive action from ScotGov.

      My own view is that Nicola never meant for this whole clusterfu*k to get as far as it has. But to sit back and potentially let the man live the rest of his days behind bars is unforgiveable imo and any sane person would want to expose the whole sorry affair after what he has been through.

      I believe/hope his strategy is to let the other side shoot their load, wait for all the orchestrated sh*t to be fired out (BBC doc included) and then blow them out of the water. Whether or not the whitewashed Holyrood inquiry is the right setting for that I don’t know. Maybe his RT show would give him the platform he needs and complete control over the presentation of his evidence.

    123. robbo says:

      https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1296934156866392064

      Naw i’m sure it was because some non local fat balding guy going into the local shop and asking for some square sausage and links that did it.

      Who fecking cares, couldnae suffer the midge more like.

    124. Beaker says:

      @Craig Murray says:
      23 August, 2020 at 5:43 pm
      “the committee is designed to be toothless and appears to be working very hard to ensure it gets nowhere near the truth.”

      Does that not just give ammunition to Sturgeons opponents? Tory and Labour party voiced concerns about the inquiring being chaired by Linda Fabiani.

    125. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I’ll not be drawn into slagging off the competition. 🙂

      Public Health Textbook
      Medical Sociology, Policy and Economics
      4a – Concepts of Health, Wellbeing and Illness, and the Aetiology of Illness

      Section 1: The theoretical perspectives and methods of enquiry of the sciences concerned with human behaviour
      https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/public-health-textbook/medical-sociology-policy-economics/4a-concepts-health-illness/section1

    126. Awizgonny says:

      If inquiries like this had any effect whatsoever they wouldn’t have them.

    127. schrodingers cat says:

      the enquiry will reveal nothing

    128. holymacmoses says:

      Is Liz Lloyd American (from North Carolina) and if so what is her background?

    129. G H Graham says:

      The Scottish Ministerial Code requires ministers to resign if they mislead the Scottish Parliament.

      Though I’m unfamiliar with the mechanism by which Sturgeon would be forced to resign if she simply refused to tender her resignation.

      A motion of no confidence? And by whom? And would that need a majority in the house? And would her tribe permit it?

      Or by another mechanism unknown to me? Does anyone else know how it actually works?

    130. Ross says:

      Not often I criticise a wings piece but what point is actually attempting to be made here?

      Women appears before committee is hardly earth shattering. You’re making vague innuendoes about the reasons for it.

    131. Ross says:

      Nicola sturgeon losing her job to a scandal will really help the indy cause…

      …..Righto

    132. Ross says:

      Wings over Scotland wants the movements biggest asset to be scandalised .

      Eye on the prize please.

    133. Mike d says:

      Biggest asset ross. Sorry you’ve lost me. I certainly thought the sun shone out of nicola’s derriere up until 6 weeks ago when i resigned my membership. Convince me that nicola’s insistence on no indy without a section 30 meant i was wrong.

    134. Cringe says:

      There is also an interview with Wark in the magazine supplement of The Sunday Times today where she is diplomatically neutral about this and other independence related matters.

    135. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Ross

      What prize might that be a country where women are second class citizens and if you don’t call a man she on his say so one can be jailed for up to 7 years. Thanks but no thanks.

    136. Socrates MacSporran says:

      One or two posters wondering why AS appears to be keeping his powder dry.

      OK, Eck is politically savvy enough to know, their sure handling of the Covid-19 crisis, particularly in comparison to the shambles in England, is not harming the SNP’s chances of still being in government after the 2021 Holyrood election.

      However, against this, with their cack-handed support of the Hate Speech Act and wokeism, Eck’s internal enemies within the SNP are making several wee mistakes.

      Eck is to wise to interrupt these enemies while they are making mistakes.

      There are SNP staffers and NEC members who fall into the famous description of the Disney executivbes: “They will do anything for the Mouse.”

      Let them mess-up as they are, if Eck doesn’t time his attack correctly, they will turn on him.

    137. robertknight says:

      Ross

      I’m afraid that more and more Indy/SNP supporters have determined that the ‘writing is on the wall’ where NS is concerned… weighed and found wanting – master of a party which her policies will see divided between the Woke-obsessed and Centre-left Yes supporters. (Didn’t end well for Belshazzar either).

    138. Jim Forsyth says:

      robbo

      Will you Kwy and Kwy and Kwy and Kwy if your Nicola has to resign???

      Oh my aching sides hahahahah!!!

      Geez peace numbnut.

    139. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Let us summarise.

      We know from Wark’s commentary in ‘The Trial Of Alex Salmond’, that on 29th March, 2018, a meeting took place.

      A quote from the (cough…) “documentary” at around 45m15s (Day 8), where Wark said,
      “When Salmond’s former chief of staff Geoff Aberdein took the stand he added fuel to the political firestorm. He stated he’d met Nicola Sturgeon and one of the women on the 29th March 2018.”

      So, that information appears to have been accepted by the court.

      It would appear that Geoff Aberdein attended two meetings on the 29th March, 2018, going by various MSM reports in January 2019, the meeting above and the meeting below. Let’s call them “Meeting 2” and “Meeting 2”.

      These quotes are from the Daily Record.
      “But the final straw was Salmond’s decision to launch a talk show on Kremlin-backed TV station RT, formerly known as Russia Today, without consulting Sturgeon…”

      “When Liz Lloyd and Geoff Aberdein met for coffee on March 6 last year, it was officially a catch-up between two old friends.
      The pair had worked closely together for seven years as key cogs in the SNP machine that brought Scotland to the brink of independence…”

      “During the March 6 meeting, Lloyd told Aberdein she hoped there was no basis in rumours Salmond was plotting a political comeback. She suggested this would be very difficult given his status on RT. Crucially, she also made reference to the sexual misconduct claims.

      We understand Aberdein reported Lloyd’s comments to Salmond. Shortly afterwards, Salmond was informed about the Government investigation into claims of sexual misconduct dating back to his time as first minister and assumed this is what Lloyd had been referring to in the meeting with Aberdein.
      Lloyd insists she had no knowledge of the Government probe at that stage and was instead referring to questions the press office had been fielding…”

      “A meeting between Sturgeon and Salmond was set up via Lloyd and Aberdein. It took place on April 2 in Sturgeon’s Glasgow home.
      Aberdein and former SNP MSP Duncan Hamilton
      [ed: Salmond’s legal advisor] were there but did not sit in on the meeting.”
      These quotes are from:-
      http://archive.is/CGDZF

      More corroboration of there, possibly, being two meetings…

      Quotes from The Herald, 15th January, 2019.
      “Alex Salmond took the advocate who worked on his legal challenge against the Scottish Government to his first meeting with Nicola Sturgeon about his sexual misconduct investigation, undermining her claim that it was a purely “party matter”.
      The former First Minister was accompanied by Duncan Hamilton, who later worked as junior counsel on his judicial review, to the April 2 meeting at Ms Sturgeon’s Glasgow home…”

      “Mr Hamilton’s presence was revealed by Mr Salmond’s former chief of staff, Geoff Aberdein, who confirmed on Tuesday that he had brokered the meeting.
      Mr Aberdein also said Ms Sturgeon’s chief of staff, Liz Lloyd, told him before the meeting, in late March, that she suspected Mr Salmond was being investigated by government officials…”

      “At the second meeting, Mr Aberdein said Ms Lloyd went further, saying she suspected the Scottish Government had received an official complaint against the former First Minister, although she did not know any details and had not informed the current First Minister.
      When the conversations were relayed to Mr Salmond they were interpreted as an attempt by Ms Lloyd to put him off trying to return to elected politics – he lost his Westminster seat in June 2017- adding to the tension between Mr Salmond and his successor…”

      “In a statement, Mr Aberdein said: “As a longstanding associate and friend of Alex Salmond, I was the intermediary who acted for him in facilitating the meeting that took place at the First Minister’s home on Monday 2 April 2018.
      “At his request, I attended along with Duncan Hamilton. Neither Duncan, Liz or I were party to the private conversation between Nicola and Alex.
      “In the interests of transparency, this followed a request by Liz Lloyd, the First Minister’s Chief of Staff, to meet with me.
      This meeting, which took place on 6 March 2018, was an informal discussion between friends and any reference to Alex Salmond in that discussion was in the context of media enquiries made around the time.
      “Liz later confirmed at a meeting between her and I in late March, again at her request, that she suspected the Scottish Government had received an official complaint about Mr Salmond. She made clear she did not know the full details of any potential complaint and had not alerted the First Minister to her suspicions about a potential complaint.

      I believe in two facts:

      Meeting 2 (Wark)…
      “When Salmond’s former chief of staff Geoff Aberdein took the stand he added fuel to the political firestorm. He stated he’d met Nicola Sturgeon and one of the women on the 29th March 2018.”

      +

      Meeting 2 (MSM)
      “At the second meeting, Mr Aberdein said Ms Lloyd went further, saying she suspected the Scottish Government had received an official complaint against the former First Minister, although she did not know any details and had not informed the current First Minister.

      = 4

      If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, smells like a duck, swims like a duck and tastes like a duck, probably, it’s most likely a duck.

      Or a pack of lies? You may think so; I couldn’t possibly comment.

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      I sometimes wonder. If fact, I’m pretty much always wondering. About something anyway.

      Theory and Society volume 40, pages 553–566 (2011)
      Beyond dialogue and antagonism: a Bakhtinian perspective on the controversy in political theory

      Abstract

      The aim of the article is to show that the contradiction between dialogue and antagonism can be overcome with the help of the idea of dialogue as developed by the Russian thinker Mikhail Bakhtin. The lack of such theory led to the rejection of liberalism or to the introduction of dialogical principle into the body of liberal politics.

      It was Jürgen Habermas who first understood the necessity of dialogical consensus as the basis of liberal democracy. On the other hand, Ernesto Laclau and Chantal Mouffe developed the concept of agonistic democracy, claiming that conflict is inevitable in liberal democracy because consensual relations cannot harmonize contradictory political identities.

      The second part of the article is the elaboration of Bakhtin’s theory of dialogue and its relevance for political theory. The main point is that dialogue leads to better understanding but not necessarily to consensus. If this is so, then both conceptions of the political are moments in never-ending dialogical relations.

      The significance of Bakhtin’s idea of dialogue for political theory consists thus in the recognition of the inevitable dialogical nature of society. However, this dialogical concept also has a normative character. Society has to find a balance between two extremes: excessive dialogue, which leads to anarchy, and the lack of dialogue, which leads to totalitarianism.

      Dialogue and antagonism seem to constitute a pair of opposite concepts and in such a way are they treated in contemporary political theories. The dialogical perspective assumes that for all political arguments one can find a resolution that will satisfy all parties involved in a controversy. The antagonistic perspective takes for granted that irreducible antagonism is a constitutive part of each society. Therefore, the only possibility for a society to exist is to suppress antagonism by imposing on that society a particular point of view. This entails using force, either symbolic or real.

      My aim in this article is to show that it is possible to envisage a democratic association, which while dialogical allows at the same time for some kind of antagonistic perspective. For this purpose I would like to employ a dialogical concept developed by Mikhail Bakhtin, who is one of the fundamental figures in cultural studies but apparently has been comparatively ignored in political theory. I think that his idea of dialogue can be of use for building a non-consensual notion of democracy. Democracy then is seen as a complicated set of conversations that do not necessarily lead to a consensus but could promote better understanding between all participants in the political struggle….

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11186-011-9151-7

    141. MorvenM says:

      Opinion: Iain Macwhirter: The jury found him innocent but Alex Salmond is still on trial

      http://archive.vn/xaTuo

    142. Beaker says:

      Questions being asked on Twitter from a variety of sources:

      Why is it only Aberdeen that suffered the lockdown, when there are a greater number of infections in other hotspots?

      Not picking holes, just asking.

    143. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Why is it only Aberdeen that suffered the lockdown” @Beaker says at 9:50 pm

      I assume because rather than lock down a town or area the decision has been to lockdown everyone who worked at TwoSisters Meat Plant (and their families) based on contact tracing to allow the virus to burn itself out over the next couple of weeks.

      Easier to trace and isolate as one factory involved compared to the Aberdeen outbreak (cast your mind back to photos of the towns pubs and clubs that weekend and the geographical spread of positive tests.

    144. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Beaker

      Aberdeen outbreak down to multiple pub-related infections. The others are more isolated or random.

    145. robbo says:

      Jim Forsyth says:
      23 August, 2020 at 8:55 pm
      robbo

      It doesn’t bother me clown.Politicians live and die by the sword (metaphorically) all the time. It’s the independence cause that is more a concern to me.

      NS is no fool and has outlasted 2 PM’s,3 Slab leaders,3 ScotTory leaders,to name a few.

      She’s also outlasted all your forum pseudonyms turnip.

      I don’t like all her moves,but i’m never a yoon-ever.

    146. Papko says:

      “NS is no fool and has outlasted 2 PM’s,3 Slab leaders,3 ScotTory leaders,to name a few.”

      She has been the FM for 6 years.
      Her predecessor and mentor lasted 7 years.

      She will certainly not be easily dislodged by and radical movement with the sole intent of breaking up the British state and putting Independence for Scotland as its sole agenda.

      Partly explains why the Tory Govt can be so sanguine about any future referendums.

      look at the History of the British Empire and underneath all the tub thumping glory, was a shrewd cunning.
      Any time the British met something they could not beat, they sought to undermine, bribe, coerce or cajole until they got them onside with a vested interest and shared world view.

    147. Jim Forsyth says:

      robbo,,,

      Nicola Sturgeon might not be a fool robbonut, but she is one lying little bastard,,,and you STILL stand by her.

      Says more about you sunshine, than Nicola Sturgeon.

    148. J Galt says:

      Ottomanboi@6.17pm

      Some of us thought this right from the start in March.

    149. Jim Forsyth says:

      O/T

      “The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement”.

      What have Black Lives Matter got that ordinary Scots have not got?

      We have been complaining about these racist english songs for years, but as soon as Black Lives Matter complain, they get listened to right away.

      Tells you everything you need to know about how the english regard a complaint from a Scottish person over that of the Black Lives Matter Movement.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1297403345083215872

    150. Davie Oga says:

      Papko

      “Any time the British met something they could not beat, they sought to undermine, bribe, coerce or cajole until they got them onside with a vested interest and shared world view”

      That’s something the Irish figured out a long time ago. And the Nigerians, the Ghanaians, the Indians and so on. But not the Scots.
      It will be hard to dislodge England’s little helpers from the SNP leadership. Not while they are providing such sterling service to the empire. In any moment of crisis Westminster knows that Team Nicky has fallen into line. Brexit, Syria, Ukraine, Belarus. My personal favourite is
      supporting the British position in Hong Kong. Mouthing off about Chinese domestic affairs. That’ll be China that Scotland will be looking to for recognition from were the SNP actually going to deliver independence.

      Scotland will never be independent so long as our political leaders aspire to be no more than England’s fucking gimp.

    151. Fireproofjim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon may be all the things her denigrators on this site say, However, outwith this site she has a huge support who believe she will lead them to Independence. Hence her approval ratings and the 56% pro-independence polls.
      Her supporters may be wrong and she may not follow through with a demand for independence after an SNP Holyrood victory in May. I which case her denigrators are correct and it is time for a change.
      One thing I am sure of. A bitter struggle within the SNP right now to replace Nicola Sturgeon would give the Unionists everything they could possibly wish for and would destroy the current strength of our cause, perhaps for years, as she has a huge personal following.
      I, for one, am not prepared to see everything I have dreamed of and contributed to for many years thrown away for lack of patience for a few more months.
      After May we shall see and after independence we will choose whoever is most fitting to the task.

    152. kapelmeister says:

      Fireproofjim @11:33

      You say that Sturgeon has a huge personal following. I’m not convinced that great multitudes of Scots have elevated her to stellar status. But let’s suppose you are right. What has personal following directly to do with winning independence?

      A Sturgeon fan who is also an enthusiast for independence will vote Yes even if someone they don’t like becomes the new SNP leader. While few Sturgeon admirers who like her brand of feminism, wokeism or covid management but who dislike independence are going to be so enthralled with her that it will make them switch to Yes in the voting booth.

      Independence is the result of good leadership and sound arguments and above all resoluteness. Not the result of a personality cult.

    153. Beaker says:

      @Col.Blimp IV says:
      23 August, 2020 at 10:19 pm
      “Aberdeen outbreak down to multiple pub-related infections.”

      There are some pubs in Aberdeen where you can get your pick of infections 🙂

      Although saying that there used to be a nightclub in Lincoln (many years ago, damned if I can remember the name of it) where Thursday night clap was not in support of the NHS…

    154. Jim Forsyth says:

      Fireproofjim

      What has Sturgeon done with all the previous Mandates given to her for Scottish Independence by the people of Scotland???

      One More Push lads!!!

      This time I really really mean Scotland.

    155. Fireproofjim says:

      Kapelmeister
      Good points but I still say Patience, at least till May.

    156. Jim Forsyth says:

      Beaker

      Where abouts in Scotland is Lincoln???

      Or are you an englander???

    157. Alf says:

      This site is such a sausagefest.

    158. Jim Forsyth says:

      A lot of BritNat Trolls will be frequenting this website to try and convince us to stick with Sturgeon.

      They know there is no chance of Independence while Sturgeon is at the wheel.

      They are easy to spot, they are overly supportive of the dirty lying little bitch Sturgeon.

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jim Forsyth
      Well I’d suggest “lying little bitch” has clear sexist overtones, and that you appear to be looking to flame and disrupt. Only a hunch. 😉

    160. leither says:

      Jim Forsyth says:
      A lot of BritNat Trolls will be frequenting this website to try and convince us to stick with Sturgeon.

      They are easy to spot, they are overly supportive of the dirty lying little bitch Sturgeon.

      ———————–

      this crosses a line

    161. Sarah says:

      O/T now that Martin Keatings crowdfunder has exceeded the target perhaps some support can go to the “Justice for Sheku Bayoh” on the crowdjustice site. It has reached £71,339 towards its £100,000 target with 11 days to go.

      As the case owner, Sheku’s sister points out, the police in USA have been charged over George Floyd’s killing, but in Scotland none of the policemen involved have been.

    162. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Hi FireproofJim,

      You make a very interesting point.

      There definitely appears to be a dissonance between the 56% approval ratings and Nicola Sturgeon’s current popularity when contrasted with the forensic work the WoS site owner regularly researches.

      The logjam will be resolved when the Mentor meets the Student in the public domain and that right soon.

      The Mentor is the shrewdest politician in Scotland. He has also said…

      “And tremble false Whigs, in the midst o’ your glee. For you’ve not seen the last o’ my bunnets and me.”

      Jim, all I want is a fair and decent Scotland run by my own Scottish government from Holyrood and completely divorced from the British Empire..

      I believe the Mentor meant every one of those words and they still hold true.

      At heart and head, I suspect that all on Wings Over Scotland (barring the obvious 77th Brigade trolls et al) want a decent and Sovereign Scottish Government FREE from England and Westminster.

      Here I believe is the answer to the $64,000 dollar question…

      The Mentor, Alex Salmond will have given his finest, most forensic thoughts on how to resolve this mess. He is miles above the Student’s pay grade. She is a pale imitation of him.

      Nicola Sturgeon has been promising IndyRef2 through smoke and mirrors. She has delivered nothing but badly written hate crime bills and GRA white papers that very few in the YES movement propioritise above Scottish Independence.

      Contrast that fact with…

      Alex Salmond has ALWAYS delivered on his promises.

      Jim, I don’t really have a Scooby how Alex will make the false Whigs tremble, but I will happily rejoin the SNP to help return Alex Salmond or Joanna Cherry as our First Minister.

      As for Nicola Sturgeon? I, and many of us have seen how Alex Salmond gets his weapon of choice: COLD HARD FACTS AND THE GRAVITAS OF WORDS FROM A WORLD CLASS LEADER, then verbally disembowel the offending miscreant.

      At this point I would genuinely worry about Nicola Sturgeon. If Alex Salmond has proof that the Dreg from Dreghorn has her fingerprints on the efforts to frame him in such a vile way and send him to prison for the rest of his useful life, then Sturgeon can expect nothing less in reciprocation.

      If that woman has any involvement in the disgusting effort to imprison a person she and her Coven of Leslie Evan types disliked, then I reckon: malfeasance by public official is the implement, the Sword of Damocles that Nicola will founder upon.

      The only caveat is that whatever the final chapter, if Nicola has any involvement in an issue where a long custodial sentence was in fact the cross her opponent had to suffer, then she must carry that same fate.

      Now what an irony that would be.

    163. Beaker says:

      @Jim Forsyth says:
      24 August, 2020 at 12:31 am
      “Where abouts in Scotland is Lincoln???
      Or are you an englander???”

      “Das ist Englander!” This ain’t the Great Escape 🙂

      I lived near there for a couple of years but 100% Scottish (I was born in Aberdeen). I brought up Lincoln as I couldn’t think of anywhere up here. Now I’ve had time to think…

    164. Willie says:

      Interesting thought Socrates MacSporran @12.13pm about whether LL will give evidence as witness L or as the FM’s aide.

      As the FM’s aide, and the ipso facto Dominic Cummings of Bute House, witness LL will certainly shine a light into the proximity of her relationship with the FM. Like Cummings is a proxy for the PM, aides like LL will fill similar functions,. And based upon what has now come out thanks to Kirsty Wark, we now know both the identity of one of the witnesses and her absolute proximity to Nicola Sturgeon.

      With LL and witness L being revealed as the same person the smell at the heart of government is beginning to very publicly revel itself – and in that we must in truth thank Kirsty Wark.

    165. Jim Forsyth says:

      Why does england have a Prime Minister and Scotland only has a First Minister?

      The english just love that feeling of dominance.

      They love being up there higher than the rest.

      They love that feeling of looking down on others.

      A Union of equals my fuckin arse.

    166. Ottomanboi says:

      Jim Forsyth. 08:13
      First Minister is in Gaelic Priomh-mhinistear and in French Premier ministre both meaning prime minister. German has Erster Minister and Premierminister. The Westminster pm is actually the First Lord of the Treasury.
      A rose by another name.

    167. Jim Forsyth says:

      Ottomanboi

      The point I was making was, why hasn’t england got a First Minister with a Devolved Parliament?

    168. Breeks says:

      I’d love to say this feels like the calm before the storm, but after 5 years of this ‘nothingness‘ it just feels like the calm before another calm.

      There’s no fight coming to salvage anything from Brexit, or stave off Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation. Four months until the Brexit Transition expires and we are no longer protected by the restraining effect of the European umbrella.

      Barely four months, after years of doing nothing, and our ‘leaders’ will demand half of it as recess and time off.

      “Do not go gentle into that goodnight…. Rage, rage against the dying of the light…” But then, Dylan Thomas wasn’t a Scot.

    169. Ottomanboi says:

      Jim Forsyth.
      Point taken, only in English is a difference in status signalled.

    170. Ottomanboi says:

      Now the long quarantine delayed process of ‘herd immunity’ kicks in.
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18671036.coronavirus-live-206-cases-just-two-days-factory-outbreak-sees-virus-spread/
      Nature will find a way!

    171. Mac says:

      The new list party is essential now.

      After seeing the last few years I can’t vote for the SNP at all anymore. First, second, whatever. They are an appalling party now. Really shocking.

      All female short lists populated by uber woke arseholes. Why should we willingly repopulate the party with these soft on independence brain dead wanks. We are just making it worse for ourselves by aiding and abetting in the New Labourisation of the SNP.

      Get the list party up as a start and then go the whole hog once you have a foothold. We are going to need it. I’ve been supporting the SNP while holding my nose for years now but the unbearable stench from them is now just too much.

      We put all our eggs in one basket and it was a huge mistake.

      We need a new vehicle and the longer we wait to do it the harder it will be to deal with this woke mob. These people are showing just how dangerous they are and I mean generally not just to the cause of independence. The things going on in Scotland since NS took the reins are shocking. The woman does not seem to have ethical boundaries. Look at the type of people she surrounds herself with… they are exactly the same.

      I have watched two hours plus of that committee and the convener especially was giving me the boak. When Jackie Ballie comes across as the best by far you know the game is fucked before it even got started.

    172. NotBreeks says:

      An indefinite article.

    173. dakk says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      24 August, 2020 at 9:08 am
      Now the long quarantine delayed process of ‘herd immunity’ kicks in.

      Indeed.

      Good luck to everyone, yoons’n’all.

    174. Wee Chid says:

      WhoRattledYourCage at 3:56 pm

      “Yawn. Hilarious. Fucking off back to whatsmysexland.”

      I think you’ve just given Channel 5 their latest reality show ?

    175. Wee Chid says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      24 August, 2020 at 9:08 am
      “Now the long quarantine delayed process of ‘herd immunity’ kicks in.2

      I’ve never come out of lockdown and I’m now sincerely pissed off that, because others did and were irresponsible, I’m, going to be stuck with it for a helluva lot longer.

    176. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Al-Stuart @ 1.29am

      You mentioned malfeasance in public office. This charge, plus the fact one of the witnesses in the Salmond stitch-up was “Witness H” leads me to just one conclusion.

      We need to get Ted Hastings, Steve Arnott and Kate Fleming on the case, right away. Let’s see if they are as good at catching bent politicians as they are with bent coppers.

    177. winifred mccartney says:

      Can anyone tell me what this phrase comes from:

      “And tremble false Whigs, in the midst o’ your glee. For you’ve not seen the last o’ my bunnets and me.”

      Thanks

    178. Davie Oga says:

      “And tremble false Whigs, in the midst o’ your glee. For you’ve not seen the last o’ my bunnets and me”

      Walter Scott wrote it about John Graham of
      Claverhouse.

    179. Muscleguy says:

      If it was okay for Evans to give evidence then why not Lloyd?

    180. Polly says:

      @ Cath at 3.56

      Truly excellent point. The difference in treatment allowed from on high in the party is obviously inconsistent. Especially inconsistent since women live longer than men and older women will likely be the ones affected by and most horrified by some of the GRA effects should they manage to push them through. Even if not pushed through the more exposure this has gotten the more women find out what was planned, and it will be pushed again. If even younger women in her own party disapprove then older, Tory women will hate it even more.

      That misogyny shown by some will definitely harden women’s attitudes should be obvious. And I agree with Doug Buchanan’s statement above ‘The abuse towards females and the FM in particular is not only distasteful, it is disturbing and disgusting!’ As Capella said previously petty, personal insult of anyone is offputting, even if included as a small part of an otherwise good argument against someone of either sex. When a small segment use continually derogatory terms for women only I will go further and say that since women feel so under threat because of the TRAs behaviour in recent years and the utter failure of society as a whole to stand up for their legal rights then even women who have never been feminists quickly realise they have to choose a side and they will choose women. As Stuart has previous rightly said, this issue brings together people of all parties (and none) both for and against. What I would say is women are becoming more intolerant of abusive language towards other women in any setting.

      I’m not a Sturgeon supporter any longer, but as with Cath’s argument above that some strategies can be self defeating, it makes sense to attack her on her record by all means but to leave any gendered insults out since any genuine argument made will be either disregarded totally, or very much diminished, by the insults.

    181. Polly says:

      @ Muscleguy

      ‘If it was okay for Evans to give evidence then why not Lloyd?’

      She’s obviously in a trickier position. As is the committee towards her I’d guess.

    182. jfngw says:

      @winifred maccartney

      Looks like its from the Bonnie Dundee song (it’s near the end around two minutes in):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av2-A-igOJk

    183. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one to give folk a peek into the American health system, just to prepare you for the post-Brexit re-set. Governments have a duty of care, but Westminster is exceptional. Brexit does not simply constitute good government, it constitutes good, old fashioned, authoritarian English nationalism, aka English fascism. But that’s alright, apparently, as our First Minister is looking out for us, by doing sweat FA. ;(

      Taking ‘Health’ as a Socio-Economic Right Seriously: Is the South African Constitutional Dialogue a Remedy for the American Healthcare System?
      https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/ajicl.2013.0057

    184. Craig Murray says:

      winifred mccartney, david oga

      It’s from the song “Bonnie Dundee” about Graham, which perhaps Scott quoted – but I think Alex would have been quoting the song rather than Scott.

    185. winifred mccartney says:

      Thank you so much Davie Oga and jfngw I have tried to find this for ages and in a matter of minutes on here I got the answer – thank you so much.

    186. Tannadice Boy says:

      In the spirit of trying to find things out. Is the another lady in the above photo, Natalie Astridge? Source IMDB The outlaw King full cast and crew. If not I missed my Specsavers appointment due to the lockdown.

    187. McDuff says:

      I agree that if Sturgeon is found to be lying and has to resign the negative publicity would harm the movement.
      But she is the cause of the chaos within the SNP and you really have to wonder what her agenda is because it ain’t Indy.

    188. Robert Graham says:

      So far I have seen 1 meeting of this Inquiry at the rate it’s progressing we will all be dead n bleedn buried by the time anything is revealed and any new revelations will be so bleedn white you will need Sunglasses to view the whitewash that’s being prepared for public consumption .

      Every single searching question is being ruled out of order by Linda Fabiani ,
      Some of the best questions are by MSPs not known for their intellectual abilities by their previous playing to the Gallery performances in the chamber ,
      surprised by Labours Jackie Baillie and Liberal Alex Cole Hamilton and SNP Alasdair Allan & Angela Constance all good contributions but unfortunately Linda Fabiani is on top of them instantly if they stray even slightly of topic .

      The Constant throughout is don’t mention the Alphabet no reference whatsoever is being allowed to the point of being bloody farcical at times it’s like a Don’t Mention the War sketch or ignore the Elephant in the Room at your Peril .

    189. robbo says:

      I see this toady Neil is still ranting mince. All we need is thon Oliver and the Mundell’s to chip in and we’re quids in.

      https://twitter.com/athomaswrites/status/1297466648283275264

    190. Willie says:

      The Prime Minister’s relationship with other ministers is officially “ primus inter pares “ which is Latin for “ first among equals ‘

      The term is used in other jurisdictions around the world. So Prime and First are in relation to being applied to Minister technically meaning the same thing.

      But maybe, just maybe, as George Orwell might have opined ‘ all animals equal but some more equal than others “ Nuff said, I think we are all too aware of that.

    191. Willie says:

      Or put another way. “ All equal in the eyes of the law “ but some more equal ( or is it unequal ) than others!

    192. Willie says:

      Or what about ……Scottish Votes don’t Matter.

      Now that’s got a kind of ring to it.

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      Talking about “equality in law”, which is ensured or otherwise, through the constitutional settlement one lives under. All legal systems must correspond to a culturally appropriate foundational moral theory. As such, British constitutionalism relied on the Common Law, to articulate constitutional rules that articulated the Natural Law. This meant the law was capable of being applied universally and impartially. However, the tradition of Parliamentary sovereignty has ensured political dogma has always had the platform to turn British constitutionalism into an English despotism.

      Brexit has burnt the British constitutional order to the ground, and the Scottish government appear determined to double down on the subsequent constitutional carnage, by introducing genderwoowoo into Scots law. Genderwoowoo is not compatible with Natural Law, and its introduction into Scots law would undermine all our natural rights. Which are currently unprotected and vulnerable to arbitrary removal (see Brexit).

      Equality and Human Rights Commission
      research report 33

      The place of equal opportunities
      in the devolution settlement:
      a legal analysis

      https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/research_report_33_the_place_of_equal_opportunities_in_the_devolution_settlement_-_a_legal_analysis.pdf
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217203822.pdf

    194. holymacmoses says:

      So many SNP people determined to keep the word ‘Independence’associated only with the SNP acronym.

      People are sovereign, not parties

    195. Mialuci says:

      WhoRattledYourCage

      The women in your life must just love you, what a twat

    196. Beaker says:

      @Davie Oga says:
      24 August, 2020 at 9:54 am
      “And tremble false Whigs, in the midst o’ your glee. For you’ve not seen the last o’ my bunnets and me”
      “Walter Scott wrote it about John Graham of
      Claverhouse.”

      Damn, I thought it was Chic Murray 🙂

    197. Mialuci says:

      Breeks

      I am an Independence supporter, I actually resent your use of diehard to describe people like me, as if we are some kind of fools, I am no fool, I have created numerous businesses in my time, and I have just lately created a digital network business, so do you still think I and people like me are your so called diehards, its a means to an end dear boy, if you cannot see this through to the bitter end then I suggest you just leave this site and let the rest of us that will do that in peace

    198. Mialuci says:

      We even have the guy that runs this site slagging off the SNP and its leaders, could you even in your darkest moments imagine MR Mogg doing the same to Boris and his chums, one thing about the tories if your not on the ship with them your arse hits the water with one big mighty splash lol

    199. Mialuci says:

      and btw, we all know the tories and labour never lie to us, yes and I never sit down to my caviar and champagne without singing a quick rendition of god save the queen lol

    200. Lothianlad says:

      It does seem strange that few openly acknowledge that the current strategy, if that’s what it can be called, and the disgusting way Alex has been treated has the paw prints of the british secret service all over it!

      As I’ve posted several times before, the British secret service have influenced and infiltrated the highest ranks of all opponents/ organisations of the british state.

      They infiltrated the highest levels of the IRA throughout the troubles and many Republicans believe they are still active within the Republican movement.

      Though the sturgeon trolls will disagree and dismiss this, those who are not such slow learners and naive about the reach of the british state will conclude that defence of the realm is their reason for existence.

      Wheres the evidence the trolls will ask?… well the brit secret service wouldn’t be doing a good job of concealing their deeds if their involvement could be proved.

      However, proof and evidence are indeed different things meaning different things to different people.

      No one can prove their involvement as they are protected by the courts and the official secrets act and so called national security.

      However, if its evidence you seek, then consider this…

      A young NS passionate and mentored by the SNP top brass, with the best of intentions, is also helped along the way by the british secret service who have already infiltrated the party and are influencing policy.

      NS is young ambitious, driven and ruthless, determined to get to the top. Aided by the state, this is achieved by doors opening for her and opportunities arising to aid her to the top.

      The State want to control her once she is at the top and this will have been made crystal clear to her, through bribery, black mail and threats of exposure. Basically she is owned and can have it all or nothing depending how she complies.

      AS is the biggest threat to the british state, passionately Advancing Independence at every turn, the man, the statesman, is the biggest risk to the uk. That risk must be neutralised in the eyes of the state.

      Back to NS. What better way to halt your enemies advancement than by controlling your opponents leadership.

      So a situation develops where AS needs discredited and the states media duly complies with the most outrageous filth being thrown at AS from within the SNP .

      NS not working alone, but being utterly played by the british state, is surrounded by many other brit plants who get lost to the membership in the massive wave of SNP popularity.
      They climb so high within the SNP ranks they become her inner circle sowing division, unaccontablilty and arrogance with nature denying policies and the abandonment of the parties principle founding policy of independence.

      The SNP on unbelievably high support and with Independence within touching distance, AS is hung out to dry and (many believe) NS has her hands all over it paying back those who put her In power.

      Fanciful thinking many would ask, but the evidence is, as stu and craig murray point out with far greater clarity, there is NO advancement from the SNP leadership toward independence despite opinion polls and party popularity at an all time high.
      No advancement when mandate after mandate has been squandered.

      Our best politician by far, AS utterly and shamefully treated by the SNP despite being innocent of all allegations and lies made against him.

      So there is the evidence of the work of the british state right at the heart of the SNP.

      The biggest threat to the union about to implode from within . And some still question whether M15 MI6 are even involved??

      Sturgeon has such a grip on the SNP right through to constituency level that bringing her down will not be easy, but the british state have set it up so that if she does fall, the SNP will be utterly discredited for a FM lying to parliament and /or being involved in criminal behaviour.

      That will be the british states second prize, losing their asset, but still able to do damage from within.

      The british state can make or break you in the blink of an eye if you play by their rules .

      Sturgeon is about to find that out the hard way.

      Scotland needs to be strong!

    201. Big Jock says:

      Lothian – Have you noticed the media love in with Sturgeon!

      Setting her up for a fall I think!

    202. leither says:

      Lothianlad says:
      As I’ve posted several times before, the British secret service have influenced and infiltrated the highest ranks of all opponents/ organisations of the british state.

      —————–

      here btl most of all

    203. robertknight says:

      Lothianlad @ 11:53

      Tripe!

      I’ve spoken personally to Nicola’s ‘handler’, in the ‘Peter Wright Suite’ in Thames House, and she tells me none of what you’ve written is remotely true.

    204. Sharny Dubs says:

      robertknight.

      I had a chat with a secret agent once, under cover and all that, he said ….. hahahaha

      It’s the way you tell em!!

    205. Polly says:

      @ Lothianlad

      Your argument would have more weight we’re it not for the fact it was Alex Salmond who mentored and promoted and worked closely with Nicola Sturgeon for years and who, when he resigned did so knowing she was his chosen successor. How could he have done such a thing?

      Now unfortunately you can’t praise him as the greatest statesman and great strategist while also saying she has always been compromised, otherwise he’d be a big doob not to have suspected for all those years. Something has undoubtedly gone awry with quite a few strategies since Sturgeon took over, from whatever cause, but I cannot believe Salmond was so stupid to be caught by a unionist serpent he had mentored and promoted.

    206. mike cassidy says:

      There’s no point getting involved with the wilderness of mirrors that is the intelligence game

      After all

      That’s a world

      Where the head of the IRA’s counter-intelligence unit

      whose function was to prevent British penetration of the organisation

      was actually working for the other side

      http://archive.is/J7vPV

    207. Mialuci says:

      Lothianlad

      Your absolutely correct, they are not called the Intelligence service because they are stupid
      I have read a multitude of books about the troubles in Northern Ireland and the British Intelligence Services are all over it to this very day, fixing the result of and election or in our case a referendum is like feeding buns to an elephant for them
      Remember the yes votes being put on the no piles in full view of the television cameras, the crew pointed this out to the police and they ignored it, who commanded the police to ignore an illegal act, have a guess and you will be correct and get an exclusive token for any foodbank of your choosing lol

    208. Bob Mack says:

      Surely nobody can doubt that Nicola Sturgeon actually believed the accusations against Salmond, and in asking Leslie Evans to create a new code for former Ministers she was putting that belief into practice.

      She prejudged Alex’s guilt and was perhaps expecting a different outcome. Nothing else makes sense.

    209. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Better to have potential trouble-makers and rivals “in the tent pishing oot, than oot o’ the tent pishing in.”

      Well Wee Nippy is allowing a large group of trouble-makers and rivals to leave the tent.

      When/if they get together and strike back – she will drown.

      And, by the way Sturgeon loyalists, my use of Wee Nippy does not indicate I am anti-SNP, anti-independence or a Yoon troll. I am an Ayrshireman who feels the only three good things to come out of Dreghorn were Andy Paton, Alex Parker and the road to Kilmarnock.

    210. robertknight says:

      If ‘spooks’ float your boat, so to speak, this is an interesting read – if you can get hold of it…

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1851583068/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_R66qFb6MJGF2Z

    211. Breeks says:


      Mialuci says:
      24 August, 2020 at 11:32 am

      Breeks

      I am an Independence supporter, I actually resent your use of diehard to describe people like me…

      Resent it all you like. The offence is all in your head, not mine. Calling someone a diehard is not a derogatory remark.

    212. Cath says:

      All the conspiracy theories about infiltration are interesting right now, because there is one question you need to ask from anything, and that is who gains? If you ask the questions who gains from 1. Alex Salmond (a) dragged through court risking prison and (b) then having evidence to show it’s clearly a stitch up) 2. The SNP splitting apart in acrimony and ending up as 2 pro-indy parties (one run by NS and one by AS?) both of which could potentially compete in the 2021 elections and 3. Discrediting the Scottish government.

      Well, those questions could honestly have at least two very different answers, depending on what you think all three would actually achieve. It’s not hard to imagine a London based person thinking: ‘destroy Salmond; destroy the SNP and discredit the Scottish government right before we bring remove powers for Brexit – what a brilliant plan, couldn’t be better.’ While in fact someone a little more au fait with Scotland might think, ‘well, has some horrible risks attached but, played right…’

      Nicola has huge support among the public for very good reasons. She’s an excellent communicator, calm, wins over those nervous about independence, has gained the respect internationally. She’s just not as popular among the more impatient part of the indy movement, which is growing as Brexit approaches and knows there’s a hell of a fight coming, for which we’ll need a Salmond as well.

      After the ‘big thing we can’t talk about’ I’ve learned over the last week, I’m ready for any further surprises or betrayals, but I’m not going to leap to any conclusions yet either. I’m going to play it “as if…” and continue to support both through to 2021 in the fond hope that’s the best part we can play right now.

      Post May though, I really hope there’s a new party who can challenge some of the increasingly authoritarian, American-driven, “culture war” attitudes as well as drive indy more aggressively if that’s what’s required.

    213. ben madigan says:

      Here’s some info on how agents were recruited to spy on the provisional IRA in Northern Ireland

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/the-dirty-war-2/

    214. Polly says:

      @ Breeks

      ‘Calling someone a diehard is not a derogatory remark.’

      That reminds me of the wonderful Dickson McCunn and the Gorbals diehards. Maybe because of him and them I’ve always thought of the word quite favourably.

    215. Republicofscotland says:

      George Galloway, who sees his political irrelevance, in Scotland and the UK as a whole, and hopes to amend it, is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for candidates for his Alliance for Unity party, seeking out misfits, bigots and racists in the process.

      One such candidate set to stand on the South Scotland Regional list, is a backer of Tommy Robinson a confirmed racist and bigot and convicted criminal. The candidate also praised a tweet lauding the killing of American man George Floyd. Galloway who’s desperate to feel relevant in politics again didn’t condemn any of responses to from his candidate to the tweets on Mr Floyd and Robinson.

      It appears that Galloway will climb into bed with just about any one or any nefarious group to thwart his country of births independence.

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      My favourite Christmas movie.

    217. Nell says:

      Anyone noticed the perfect timing of the U-turn from Michael Gove and Co. on the granting of the S30 as soon as ‘the people’s action on S30’ was announced as raising enough funds to attend court?

      It seems to me they know this will win and Scotland will have every right to hold an in-house referendum with no outside interference. Accepting the S30 will also allow them to control the narrative and rig the system (again)

      I expect agent Sturgeon to make a renewed effort on the S30 in the coming weeks which will be accepted by Boris Johnson. They know she is on her last legs without this and with no ‘credible’ successor in her inner circle they must keep her in power as long as possible or at-least until No-deal Brexit has been achieved. They would not want Joanna Cherry or even Alex gaining power at this stage.

      Be very wary of this as it’s come far to easily and from nowhere. A few polls wouldn’t be enough to trigger this panic.

    218. Robert Graham says:

      Conspiracy appears to be the Buzz word on everyone’s mind when describing this site.

      You listening Stu yer a conspiracy Theory Promoter along with that trouble maker who lives in Edinburgh you know that Craig Murray guy who’s facing a prison sentence for acutely promoting a normal country and openly defending a certain former First Minister .

      As far as I know Stuart Campbell has never published promoted endorsed anything on this site he couldn’t prove or point to the source for others to check themselves what was published was true

      So obvious detractors feel free to watch and Tut Tut while Stu gets on with actually doing some work in giving folks here information we can’t learn elsewhere , okay some pretty interesting comments from some flakey characters sometimes here but opinions are just that opinions like them or not everyone gets a chance without vindictive petty Clique driven group think .

    219. SOG says:

      Diehard comes from a Brit regiment fighting Napoleon’s army in the Peninsular War. Outnumber by the French, the colonel urged his men to ‘Die Hard’. The regiment, I forget which, became known by this.

      Like ‘treehugger’, it seems to have been watered down and twisted around. My guess would be by journos.

    220. SOG says:

      The 57th, a Middlesex regiment…

    221. Robert Graham says:

      Eh Stu
      still waiting on the cash for my glowing endorsement no IOUs please cash only

      Thanks Bob

    222. Cath says:

      Conspiracy appears to be the Buzz word on everyone’s mind when describing this site.

      Conspiracies are everywhere, especially in politics and international affairs. If they weren’t, there would be no point to having MI5, the CIA, Mossad, Russian intelligence etc, and they wouldn’t be doing their jobs if they just let things happen that were clearly against their interests.

      The mug’s game is in thinking you know, or could ever know, what the conspiracies are, who’s in them and who’s winning. Trust everyone while maintaining a little doubt in every single one of them as well is probably the best advice. And usually if a conspiracy theory is promoted all over the internet, it’s bollocks. Getting off the Internet and reading a good book instead is probably the best advice of all (which I could take it 😉 )

    223. Allium says:

      Iain Dale was very clever when he got NS to speak of her personal pain and anguish over her relationship with AS last year. I wish someone would follow up on his line of questioning now. The direction/misdirection of the answers would be revealing.

    224. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Ottomanboi says:

      “First Minister is in Gaelic Priomh-mhinistear and in French Premier ministre both meaning prime minister. German has Erster Minister and Premierminister.”

      Not quite correct old bean.

      Germany has “Angie”, she’s the boss. 🙂

      She is the Bundeskanzlerin (Federal Chancellor) and heads the Government.

      The heads of the 16 German Länder (States) are titled Minister Presidents (Ministerpräsident)

      They did once have a Diktator though…

    225. iain mhor says:

      Tannadice Boy 10:20am

      It’s no Specsavers yer needin, it’s a guide dug 😀
      Ye must hae een like a stinkin haddie.
      I wiz doon Specsavers masel the ither day – ken who ah saw?

      Naebody…

      ah’ll get ma coat.

    226. Beaker says:

      @Cath says:
      24 August, 2020 at 2:43 pm
      “And usually if a conspiracy theory is promoted all over the internet, it’s bollocks.”

      That there is a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theories… 🙂

    227. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Socrates, 1.11: “I am an Ayrshireman who feels the only three good things to come out of Dreghorn were Andy Paton, Alex Parker and the road to Kilmarnock.”

      You are a fine judge of footballers, sir, although I believe Alex Parker was from Irvine originally.

      Awe-struck older ‘Well supporters sometimes referred to AP as Andy Platoon, a reference to his tremendous influence and ubiquity. What they would give for such a player today……

      *Eyes league table nervously*

    228. mike cassidy says:

      The Scottish diehard

      https://nationalpurebreddogday.com/the-diehard/

      Interestingly, the ‘switch’ in meaning probably arose around the time of the Irish Home Rule Bill of 1912

      Those opposing it being referred to as die-hards

      OED

      1912 Tatler 9 Oct. 32a (caption) One of the ‘Die-hards’. Lord Willoughby de Broke speaking recently at Ballyroney against Home Rule for Ireland.

    229. Tannadice Boy says:

      Iain Morgan says

      Ha ha. It was a request from Stu earlier in the thread that made me look at the crew list. I still think it is Natalie although her portrait on the website is partly obscured by peacock feathers. I will phone specsavers immediately just in case.

    230. Ottomanboi says:

      The final, rational and authentically authoritative word on the Colossal Covid-19 Cockup.
      https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/285341
      All else is damned lies.

    231. Lothianlad says:

      I reckon AS knew late on about NS changing her spots. However, NS probibally herself only knew the extent to which she became owned late on also.

      NS is not a spook but definitely owned by the british state.

      It’s my opinion that this is the case and others might disagree, but it would by niave not to think this is possible, indeed probable.

      Sure it wasnt the ‘pete wishart suite’ you had your chat with her handler? Lol

    232. Polly says:

      @ mike cassidy

      ‘Interestingly, the ‘switch’ in meaning probably arose around the time of the Irish Home Rule Bill of 1912’

      Possibly started then by that, yet Buchan could use it quite favourably for his group of street urchins who wanted to be scouts and behaved and wanted to be true blue gentlemen in 1922. Considering the circumstances in Ireland from 1912 to 1923 that is interesting.

    233. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Tinto Chiel Andy Paton was a lovely man. I interviewed him not long before he died, still had a pawky sense of humour.

      He was perhaps ahead of his time as a ball-playing centre half,who preferred to play his way out of defence, rather than hoof the ball into Row Z.

    234. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Cath @ 1.47pm

      Interesting post.

      I can see, post-INdependence, the end of the “big tent” party system, with the current big parties splitting into smaller cells.

      Some Scottish Tories, for instance, will see the sense of a purely Scottish, moderate, right-of-centre party, dedicated to low taxes and the old-fashioned “one nation” ethos.

      Others will move even further to the right, while I can see some dinosaurs continuing to support the Union, long after it has shattered.

      Labour in Scotland will probably shatter into even more, smaller units, while the Lib-Dems in Scotland will still be trying to be all things to all people.

      It will be interesting to see how the SNP splits, but split it will. Then, once all the splits are over, we may yet see day-to-day Holyrood affairs being largely based around garnering enough support to get legislation through and perhaps without one overall ruling party.

      Then we will see if all in it together really works.

    235. Sweep says:

      @Beaker
      23rd Aug @2.56 pm

      I know Alex Neil is retiring but he’s just been quoted in the press as saying that the economic case for independence should be completely rewritten to take account of the effects of Covid-19 and that the party should contest the 2021 election on a clear unequivocal commitment to hold a referendum within the NEXT parliamentary lifetime.

      Round and round it goes…

    236. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Prof. Qimron noted that the total number of coronavirus deaths does not exceed 0.1% of the total population in any country, and the death rate from coronavirus is less than 0.01% of the total world population, meaning that 99.99% of the world’s population so far has survived the epidemic and the virus is negligibly lethal.”

      “He said smart behavior would be the opposite of what we do today; Populations not at risk should become infected and create chains of immunity, which will protect the sick and the elderly. We are currently working for sweeping social distancing, which prevents such differential immunity, he said.”

      Perhaps this is because folk started taking the potential threat of a novel and deadly pathogen seriously, and measures were put in place to check the pandemic’s growth? Also, recent research from Spain indicates heard immunity may not be possible to achieve because of the nature of the virus, and would require unacceptably high death-rates to achieve, if at all possible.

      The Open Public Health Journal, 2008, 1, 8-16
      How Many Principles for Public Health Ethics?

      Abstract:

      General moral (ethical) principles play a prominent role in certain methods of moral reasoning and ethical decision-making in bioethics and public health. Examples include the principles of respect for autonomy, beneficence, nonmaleficence, and justice. Some accounts of ethics in public health have pointed to additional principles related to social and environmental concerns, such as the precautionary principle and principles of solidarity or social cohesion.

      This article provides an overview of principle-based methods of moral reasoning as they apply to public health ethics including a summary of advantages and disadvantages of methods of moral reasoning that rely upon general principles of moral reasoning.

      Drawing upon the literature on public health ethics, examples are provided of additional principles, obligations, and rules that may be useful for analyzing complex ethical issues in public health. A framework is outlined that takes into consideration the interplay of ethical principles and rules at individual, community, national, and global levels.

      Concepts such as the precautionary principle and solidarity are shown to be useful to public health ethics to the extent that they can be shown to provide worthwhile guidance and information above and beyond principles of beneficence, nonmaleficence, and justice, and the clusters of rules and maxims that are linked to these moral principles.

      Future directions likely to be productive include further work on areas of public health ethics such as public trust, community empowerment, the rights of individuals who are targeted (or not targeted) by public health interventions, individual and community resilience and wellbeing, and further clarification of principles, obligations, and rules in public health disciplines such as environmental science, prevention and control of chronic and infectious diseases, genomics, and global health.

      https://openpublichealthjournal.com/VOLUME/1/PAGE/8/PDF/

    237. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one that should highlight the absolute nonsense of supporting genderwoowoo in law, which would insist mankind is separate from, and above, nature. Beamer for the Scottish Greens, no?

      Ethics of Environmental Health
      chapter 5
      Bioethics, the Precautionary Principle and future generations

      This chapter introduces precautionary principle and explains its relevance to environmental health and to bioethics in general. It then discusses some of the applications of the Precautionary Principle to bioethics and biomedicines, and the difference that heeding it can make to the prospects of future generations. The Precautionary Principle amounts to the Principle of Maximin, according to which agents should select the course of action among their options of which the worst outcome would be the least bad.

      The Precautionary Principle applies, of course, to many other human practices, such as the release of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, with probable detriment to distant peoples, future generations and countless nonhuman species; taking it seriously at all levels of society, and intervening accordingly, could make a very large difference with regard to the irreversibility of carbon footprint.

      https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/e/9781315643724/chapters/10.4324/9781315643724-7

    238. robertknight says:

      Alex Neil there, managing to put another dimension on the word “Neverendum”.

      Not this Parliament, but the next, eh?

      Sounds like another helping of ‘jam tomorrow’ from the Yellow Queen.

    239. deerhill says:

      I know this is off topic, but my Googlefu has deserted me.

      I would like to ask Socrates MacSporran re his post in the last item re Kirsty Wark, what “posh” street was she brought up in?
      I lived in Gilmour Street, a rather less posh street, but on the other hand, I did go to The Academy, as did my brother.(grin)

    240. bipod says:

      Perhaps this is because folk started taking the potential threat of a novel and deadly pathogen seriously, and measures were put in place to check the pandemic’s growth?

      Of course that is the staggering claim made by supporters of the panic. unfortunately there isn’t a single shred of evidence to prove that lockdowns have had the effect that you are implying.

      Facts that we do know: It is extremely rare for a person under the age of 50 to die or even be hospitalised if they catch this virus, the most common symptom in the overwhelming majority of people in that age category is that they are absolutely fine.

      If you had read the professors quotes from that article you would know that he was suggesting that those young/youngish people who are at no or very negligible risk should go about there life and catch the virus as this would provide herd immunity (unless you are proposing this virus is somehow different from every other virus on the face of the earth?) which would protect the elderly. This is what we do for every other virus.

      But that is a far too sensible strategy for panic stricken Scotland. What we should really do is shutdown the entire country indefinitely, doing massive damage to the economy and well-being of the people, and let the virus ran rampant through care homes anyway (more than 50% of care homes in Scotland had outbreaks the lockdown did nothing to protect them).

    241. Beaker says:

      @Sweep says:
      24 August, 2020 at 4:47 pm

      You have to remember that he is anti-EU, but to be fair he bases his arguments on more sensible reasons than the ERG nutters.

      I’ll bet NS is glad to see the back of him. I don’t think the two of them have ever seen eye to eye, but he is too diplomatic to ever make comments outside of closed doors. What happens after next May is yet to be seen.

      On his economic changes from COVID, it helps confirm my suspicions that NS is nervous about pushing forward for an indyref as they feel their economic argument might be weak. They might be waiting to see the results of Brexit and the economic fallout from that.

      There won’t be anything moving forward before May though, regardless of court cases or whatever else. The Scottish Government will definitely NOT do anything before the end of the year.

    242. Republicofscotland says:

      “SOG says:
      24 August, 2020 at 2:39 pm
      The 57th, a Middlesex regiment…”

      According to this The illustrious Royal Scots regiment fought in the Peninsular war and the at the battle of Badajoz.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Scots

    243. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Socrates 4.27: have left a comment for you on O/T.

    244. cirsium says:

      Renegade Inc were streaming some earlier programmes and one of them was an interesting interview in 2017 with Professor Mark Crispin Miller on the origins of the term “conspiracy theory”

      https://renegadeinc.com/conspiracy-theories/

    245. robertknight says:

      Beaker @ 5;45

      “ their economic argument might be weak.”

      Oh FFS – if the Government of the party whose raison d’etre is to facilitate Scotland’s return to the status of an Independent, Sovereign State, can’t come up with an economic case for Indy, irrespective of the circumstances, then we might as well just consign the idea to the history books and give up.

      A country of 5.5 million, rich in natural energy, particularly renewables, freed from the mismanagement of Westminster and their best argument “might be weak”???

      I despair at times, I really do…

    246. Clapper57 says:

      Just watched a clip on Twitter from BBC The Nine…where a Scot who now lives in London says living in London should not exclude him from having a vote in any future Scottish referendum….

      Of course he adds that he “passionately believes in Scotland being at the heart of the UK”….WTF has he been ?

      So basically the bottom line is he only really wants a vote so that he can vote …NO…while still choosing NOT to live in Scotland (Heart of the UK) but live in England (Not heart of the UK) instead…..and contributing, via his taxes, to the English economy.

      Yet he wants us to believe he thinks “Scotland should be at the HEART of the UK” but he chooses not to be in Scotland (Heart of the UK)……so lives somewhere else in the UK (As in Not at the Heart of the UK)…confused….yes me too…

      It’s almost like he is saying , but with a change of words, the same as David Cameron pre 2014 Indy Ref…” Lead us don’t leave us”…

      BTW…..he also called himself a ….proud Scot…..however he missed out the ‘but’ after stating this……why do Unionists always feel the need to justify their position in being Scottish and British by adding the word ‘proud’ before ‘Scot’….is it because it seems so irrational to be a Scot but wanting another country to control your own….and do it badly……indeed the fact they do not believe enough in their own country’s ability to be independent makes them anything BUT Proud Scots….more closet English I think under the guise of being British.

      Still it was good that the BBC The Nine found him….what’s the chances…..every chance ….when they go touting for Unionists to diss and skew independence. Funny how they always manage to give a platform to Unionists who devise plots to undermine independence and any potential second Indy Ref but still present it somehow as a fair and just argument……

      IMO I would say Scotland has been treated not as being “at the HEART of the UK” but more in another body region where one deposits one’s waste…..hence why we, who support Scottish Independence, are treated like sheeite……and why the idea that we should be independent is constantly presented as a sheeite concept….and one in which they, the Yoons, are ever so desperate to flush doon the Lavvy pan and thus for us all to just ‘Get in the f**king Sea’………..

      Guess it’s Sink or Swim time peeps……

    247. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      “Facts that we do know:”

      Recent evidence from Spain, published by the British Medical Journal, indicates ‘herd immunity’ may not be possible. Do you have any evidence to suggest you know better? Do you have any scientific or medical background, or any relevant experience?

    248. bipod says:

      Still a very big “may” cameron, not even the authors of that study are certain of their findings. It seems to be that the plan that is most favored by supporters of an endless lockdown is to wait until a vaccine is available and then we can lift all the ridiculous restictions, but the very same study that you are talking about also casts doubts on the efficacy of a vaccine. So where does that leave us?

      I will continue challenging political opportunists like nicola sturgeon who have used this manufactured crisis to divert attention away from their own shambolic government. Sorry if that upsets you.

    249. holymacmoses says:

      “Bob Mack says:
      24 August, 2020 at 1:01 pm
      Surely nobody can doubt that Nicola Sturgeon actually believed the accusations against Salmond, and in asking Leslie Evans to create a new code for former Ministers she was putting that belief into practice.

      She prejudged Alex’s guilt and was perhaps expecting a different outcome. Nothing else makes sense.”

      There are many other options which make sense Mr Mack and tbh I think your option makes the least sense of any possible.

      Perhaps:
      1.
      I think Sturgeon ‘chose’ to destroy Mr Salmond because she felt he was a threat to stability in Scotland is one option.
      2
      Sturgeon wasn’t free to make her own choice on whether Mr Salmond was destroyed.

      I think many of the answers lie in the North-east because it didn’t make sense that the seats were lost so overwhelmingly in the 17 election. AND , more than anything, I think the answer will lie in money.

    250. Effijy says:

      I can see a point for Scotland being at the Heart of the UK.
      We can swap places for the next 300 years with all money
      Coming to Scotland, Nuclear Bombs and subs along with
      Radio active waste to the Thames, we upgrade all our railway
      and sewer systems and charge England for 90% of it.

      Yes maybe we could look at that?

    251. cynicalHighlander says:

      @robertknight

      Sturgeon is economically illiterate hence her endorsement of the Growth Commision as a future Scotland we should look for. She hasn’t a clue.

    252. Dan says:

      @robertknight at 6:00 pm

      Aye, if oor oan Government Administration lacks the gumption or confidence to conceive that we would be better in control oor oan destiny with the follow stats* it makes you wonder what the fuck is rattlin round in their nappers…

      * Caveat that the following has been posted for years so may need updating slightly to be 100% accurate:

      Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK’s population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure… 8.3%

      But we DO have…

      32% of the land area.
      61% of the sea area.
      90% of the fresh water.
      65% of the natural gas production.
      96.5% of the crude oil production.
      47% of the open cast coal production
      81% of the untapped coal reserves
      62% of the timber production
      46% of the total forest area
      92% of the hydro electric production
      40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
      60% of the fish landings
      30% of the beef herd
      20% of the sheep herd
      9% of the dairy herd
      10% of the pig herd
      15% if the cereal holdings
      20% of the potato holdings
      70% of UK Gin production
      …obviously 100% of the Scotch Whisky industry.

      We have a…
      17 billion pound construction industry
      13 billion food and drink industry
      10 billion business services industry
      9.3 billion chemical services industry
      9.3 billion tourism industry
      7 billion financial services industry
      5 billion aeroservice industry
      4.5 billion pound whisky exports industry
      3.1 billion pound life sciences industry
      Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports

      We have 25% of Europe’s wave and wind energy potential.

      And finally we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil and gas reserves.

      All of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK’s population…

      IGNORANCE…
      If you hear anyone saying “I DONT LIKE ALEX SALMOND or NICOLA STURGEON” or “I DONT LIKE SNP”…
      THE INDY QUESTION IS ABOUT SCOTLAND’S RIGHT TO ELECT ITS OWN GOVERNMENT… IT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ALEX SALMOND, NICOLA STURGEON OR THE SNP.

      Do you know… This is the UK’s legacy of success in our history of being better-together is as follows…

      The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world

      The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union

      The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world

      The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU

      The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU

      The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU’s 28 countries

      The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU

      The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe

      The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe

      The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe.

      The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      “Still a very big “may” cameron, not even the authors of that study are certain of their findings.”

      So that will be a big No then, you have no relevant knowledge or experience. You’re political outlook doesn’t upset me, it saddens me. It’s folk like you would will prolong the need for lock-downs and social distancing, because you’re not taking the threat sufficiently seriously.

      BMJ 2020; 369 (Published 09 April 2020)
      Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis

      Rapid Response:
      Ethics vs Evidence: Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis

      Dear Editor

      “The ounce of evidence is better than tons of literature”

      As in the article itself, there are ounces of evidence in tons of literature which indicate the benefits of social /universal masking in the near past in managing influenza. Influenza is not even understood fully to date but still indicates benefits. The term precautionary principle itself was devised in Germany in the dilemma at that time but later on it was proved beneficial.

      Just on the analogy of scientific advancement, the Covid 19 virus and its tackling stretegies are evolving on a day to day basis; if one waits for ample evidence in this scenario now, we might get many, by sacrificing many, human lives.

      Therefore, health policy makers have to adopt the precautionary principle on the basis of ethics with available evidence. The principles of medical ethics like beneficence, non-maleficence, justice and autonomy would be weighed down while taking such decision making. If an ounce of evidence of non-maleficence (no harm) for universal masking with cloth is strong, then one should advocate for this practice. It indirectly strengthens the principle of beneficence and justice to frontline health professionals in dire need of medicated masks. The principle of autonomy could be achieved by informing the benefits of community masking (as per CDC) to communities and encourage them to take an informed decision.

      Some countries like Japan, Singapore and lately India are advocating for universal masking, in the first instance generating the hypothetical evidence of slow transmission.

      “When uncertainty prevails, the certain thing to do is do some uncertain things in an ethical way”

      https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-21

    254. Dan says:

      It’s amazing what can be built with will, vision and determination once you stop focusing on what sex bits you have in yer pants and how you perceive they define you.
      China has been busy on the global scene.

      2 min vid of Fish Farm in Egypt
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7MKsNUO5zQ

      1 minute vid of Norwegian Offshore Salmon Farming
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAC5l8HD-mE

      Meanwhile in Scotland…
      https://twitter.com/SaveOurLochs

    255. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 6pm

      Just had a wee look at Mr Malky’s Twitter a/c and seems ‘Scotland being at the Heart of the UK boy’ is a big Tory fan….colour me f**king surprised…..

      So his wee stint on BBC The Nine was just another opportunity for an uber Yoon and Tory to boot to be given a platform and speak with f**ked Tongue…..

      MSM does it again…..so he’s not just some random Scot living away from home but a Tory…..fan of Thatcher FFS….and one of his tweets included words ‘Nippy’…..original…NOT….in the name o the wee man …see this is why people go ONLINE for their news and NOT via Helly Telly cause we get to establish what the ‘guests’ who are on Helly Telly political position is and that helps us to see where they are coming from in formulating their ( biased) opinion…….as we saw on QT……a supposed random in the audience giving their opinion only to find they either work for a Yoon party or are active members of a yoon party……

      There is more news and information missing than there is actual f**king news on MSM…….I suggest that rather than the BBC searching for supposed Fake News they should start searching for all of the important facts omitted from their own ‘news’ reports to include the political allegiances of their guests….to fail to do so is then just Fake News is it not…would save us all having to look up online to see how sheeite their coverage has been on specific topics and also see exactly what political party the guests they invite on are linked/involved with indeed who they support politically…….

      MSM does really cater for morons who cannot be arsed researching and establishing the facts and truth and who just prefer to be spoon fed sheeite day after day…..never questioning anything.

    256. bipod says:

      What is your relevant knowledge or experience? I don’t normally ask this because I think everyone has the right to comment on important issues but I am just trying to understand where do you get off trying to shut people down who question the official narrative?

      Its not people like me who have caused or prolonged (how many people have died in Scotland in the past month, how many have been hospitalized?) the lockdown its people like you who doggedly refuse to acknowledge that this isn’t the plague or spanish flu. Its actually a very mild illness.

      Its folk like you that have ran this country into the ground and allowed politicians like nicola sturgeon to bestow on themselves unaccountable power.

    257. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Mialuci says:
      24 August, 2020 at 11:25 am
      WhoRattledYourCage

      The women in your life must just love you, what a twat’

      Love the fact you used a vulgar slang term for a vagina in that intelligent post. Clueless doesn’t even begin to cover it. 😉

    258. Pete says:

      Bipod
      This debate about Covid is now beyond parody.
      Why are we in this state?
      Why are we destroying business?
      Why are we dressing like zombies?
      Why are we impoverishing our population.
      Why are we failing to treat our people who are suffering from cancer and heart disease?
      Why are we killing more people than we are saving from Covid?
      I despair.
      Why are our journalists not asking the correct questions?

    259. Beaker says:

      @Effijy says:
      24 August, 2020 at 6:47 pm
      “I can see a point for Scotland being at the Heart of the UK.
      We can swap places for the next 300 years with all money
      Coming to Scotland, Nuclear Bombs and subs along with
      Radio active waste to the Thames, we upgrade all our railway
      and sewer systems and charge England for 90% of it.
      Yes maybe we could look at that?”

      Radioactive waste in the Thames might clean it up. If you ever get the chance, cross over one of the bridges and look at the colour of the water. Of course, it is likely the Thames will flood London properly in the next hundred years or so.

    260. Mac says:

      12 hours and still my post is in moderation?
      What the fuck is the point in taking time to make a post if you cant be arsed moderating it.

    261. Mac says:

      Get fucked.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      Yes, everyone has a right to an opinion, and everyone has a right to be listened to. But we don’t all have the same privilege of our opinions being given credence. I’m trained in critical approaches to science, ethics, law, and public policy. In other words, I’m trained to be a legal advocate, or a SPAD, as well as a town planner. Have you not taken the opportunity to inform yourself with any of the theory and law I’ve been posting?

      Uncertainty, risk, and the precautionary principle

      Research may have far-reaching consequences for health, society, or the environment. It is therefore important that the uncer-tainty and risk that are often accompanying factors when research becomes practical and concrete, are not neglected, and that decision-makers who use scientific knowledge have a thorough understanding of this knowledge and the context.

      https://www.etikkom.no/en/ethical-guidelines-for-research/guidelines-for-research-ethics-in-science-and-technology/uncertainty-risk-and-the-precautionary-principle/

    263. defo says:

      Sake!
      My bullshit detectors need recalibrate now Spammers!

      Practical experience?

    264. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      See this from Prof JWR on said Tory Boy from the broadcast @Clapper57 says at 6:00 pm and again at 7:40pm

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/08/24/bbc-scotlands-the-nine-allows-young-conservative-accused-of-anti-semitism-to-promote-racist-ideas/

    265. Hughsie says:

      The good old Beeb.

    266. Tannadice Boy says:

      Jeanne Freeman standing down as well. Ok she is 67 so maybe not a huge surprise. Side effect being these recent standowns are making more room for potential Wokesters. I hope branches are on the ball. We don’t need more young inexperienced MSPs in Holyrood.

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      Limited, though probably still more than most. As I’m trained as a town planner, I’m trained to support public health and civil society. I don’t like to brag but I thought it might have been obvious a know a bit about this stuff.

      Changing Perceptions, Emergent Perspectives
      CHAPTER 1
      Critical Perspectives on Civil Society

      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.578.4849&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    268. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tannadice Boy.

      It’s a pity the SNP’s NEC didn’t have the foresight to understand that quite a number of SNP MSPs, of pensionable age, could announce their retirement, ie not standing at the next Holyrood election.

      I would guess that there are a number of SNP MPs, like Joanna Cherry, who could have been keen to put themselves forward for selection as potential MSPs. A fair bit of (YES) experience in their group.

      Unless the NEC decision can be reversed, any “new” MSPs will be lacking the knowledge, intuition and experience that (resigning) MPs could have brought to Holyrood.

    269. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Deerhill @ 5.32pm

      To answer your question re Ms Wark – Dundonald Road.

    270. Lenny Hartley says:

      Brian Doonthetoon, hope your well brian you have got me back from lurking 🙂 i think the leadership will have had knowledge of who was intending to stand down months ago and the NEC decision was made in the full knowledge that all the experience was standing aside.
      Make of the consequences as you will.

    271. crazycat says:

      @ Socrates

      Thought it might be! I parked my car there this afternoon (not necessarily outside the former Wark residence, of course).

    272. Oneliner says:

      @Dan

      Thanks for putting all that info in black and white. Makes the case for independence as plain as the nose on your face.

      Meanwhile people will obsess with personalities and profanities and opprobrium will abound.

    273. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lenny Hartley.

      Good to see you scribblin’ on the keyboard. Hope you’re keeping the monster cleggs at bay?

      8=)

      “The management” of the SNP seems to be all over the place at the moment. Could it be that Nicola is concentrating too hard on covid19, allowing the kids to play as they like, out on the street? Neglecting the input from friendly neighbours as to the security of the SNP household?

    274. robertknight says:

      Absolutely no issue with ex-Pat Jocks living in the Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland voting in IndyRef2. Provided… ex-Pats from the Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland living in the Kingdom of Scotland DO NOT.

      It’s either ONLY those living in Scotland and registered to vote in Scotland, OR ONLY SCOTS, irrespective of where they live – NOT a gerrymandered and hybridised version of the two IMHO.

      A wee tale… British/English family, as red/white/blue as a Barber’s pole, were due to move out of my village to Cheshire in August 2014. They made sure they had their postal referendum (“No”) votes sorted before they left – never to return.

      Manners prevent me from expressing my true feelings towards them here…

    275. Tannadice Boy says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says
      Succession planning, despite bring straight forward, is a problem for the Corporate world as well. Usually vested interests at play. Experienced MPs trapped in Westminster. How convenient. That’s why I think it’s up to the Branches to have rigorous selection events. Head them off at the pass!

    276. Beaker says:

      @robertknight says:
      24 August, 2020 at 9:57 pm

      What’s the point in raising this again? Only people registered in Scotland will be eligible to vote. Try to discriminate based on country of birth will really go down well on the international stage. What’s next, proof of ancestry?

      Go and ask Mike Russell what he thinks.

    277. Lenny Hartley says:

      Brian Doonthetoon, aye wan o they buggers got me at the weekend very irritating.
      I dont think she has taken her eye of the SNP ball, by all accounts she is a control freak, nothing will go past her. (And her man)

    278. robertknight says:

      Beaker

      Clapper57 @ 6 & 7:40

      That’s the point.

    279. Big Jock says:

      Robert. Did you look at the recent polls. Yes are ahead in every region of Scotland. Except for one!

      The bloody borders! The English who have moved there, just can’t let go of mother England. Oh but we travel from Scotland to England to work blah blah. Usual feckin mince you hear from down there.

    280. Breastplate says:

      CBB,
      You said:
      “It’s folk like you would will prolong the need for lock-downs and social distancing, because you’re not taking the threat sufficiently seriously.”

      Lockdown is not a necessity, it is a strategy, a choice that will have pros and cons.
      Surely that’s as plain as the nose on your face and there is no need for any specific certificates to arrive at that conclusion.

    281. jfngw says:

      @Beaker

      Maybe it’s forward planning, they expect to lose any referendum. The next ploy will be to try and delegitimise the vote ‘so many Scots disenfranchised’. WM then claim they can’t respect the vote and just try to ignore it. It’s all about attempting to confuse the voters, plant the idea of unfairness in their heads.

      They are sowing the seeds, the BBC is running with it.

      I think we all know if Yes wins then WM is going to try everything to reject the vote. That’s why the day after a Yes vote we declare Scotland independent and say we are currently in a withdrawal stage, the Scots equivalent of EVEL, only Scots politicians decide Scotland future.

    282. robertknight says:

      Big Jock…

      Borders stuffed with landed gentry, fox-hunting types – both Scots and English versions of British. Rich pickings for Tory boys who can’t get a proper job and opt for a life in politics.

      Just look at the Scotland rugger buggers who hailed from there and were quick to give their MBE/OBE calibre stamp of approval to Better Together. I guess once you’ve played for the British Lions then the Faustian pact has been sealed.

      The only way you’ll win that part of the world is to throw money at them. Any other form of discourse is a wasted effort.

    283. Clapper57 says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker @ 9.16pm

      Thanks for that… very informative.

      Well that just takes the biscuit does it not.

      So the BBC have f**ked up again….who are their researchers ?

      Though perhaps the task the researchers are given is to find people exactly like HIM.

      The BBC and SKY have form in giving random and questionable characters a platform on both their channels thus giving the gullible viewers a false perception that somehow these people are credible and honest individuals…..

      Pre Brexit I had never heard of Darren Grimes & Tom Harwood yet both are regular guests on both channels mentioned above either reviewing the papers or given their opinions on a matter that they have no experience in or extensive knowledge of…….indeed it was noted that Darren Grimes participated in a ‘Defund the BBC’ campaign and subsequent to that has appeared on a BBC programme….though most people assumed twas the ‘FEE’ that enticed him and another opportunity to be relevant …..obviously principles can be cast aside when there is money involved and self promotion…for sure.

      There seems to be a regular stable of dubious characters with known participation and involvement in dubious organisations and campaigns from which both channels seem to regularly give an undeserved and open door policy to allow them to vent their skewed vision and opinion while also promoting their own agendas upon the unsuspecting viewers not privy to their backgrounds.

      We had the same in the Scottish Referendum where everyone and their Donkey were given an opportunity to voice their opinion while the viewers were , unless they researched them, oblivious to their background….a classic example being those involved in SIU but this information being conveniently withheld from the viewer thus it seemed as though they were somehow just giving an informed and honest opinion with no malice or agenda…..no axe to grind type of performance…unless you know where their loyalty REALLY lies….and it is still the case…Care Home owner guy being a classic example.

      If people were to shun the obvious manipulation and the same old lies and fear tactics deployed by political yoons, journalist yoons and random nobodies who are given a platform to be a somebody via MSM then perhaps ordinary people could decide in a honest and more focused way and not be influenced by those whose motives are questionable and dishonest……and the TV channels are the vehicle from which all forms of bias are given an open platform….if only reality and truth were given the same platform as fantasy and lies on MSM then Independence would be won by a landslide.

      As far newspapers…don’t get me started on them….

    284. CameronB Brodie says:

      Breastplate
      I’ve no problem with that position, though that’s not where bipod was coming from. I hope you don’t think I’m claiming I know it all, and are prepared to give me some leeway for being rusty. I don’t have a huge amount of professional experience to fall back on, though I wouldn’t think it sensible to discard my point of view as lacking theoretical and practical realism. I’m trained to support open democracy through strengthening democratic participation and representation, though I’ve only recently remembered that, and I’m only beginning to remember how to do it. Which is nice. 🙂

      Spaces of Democracy
      Geographical Perspectives on Citizenship, Participation and Representation
      First Edition

      ‘This volume successfully exposes the “ghostly presence” of democracy in the field of geography and shows the value of thinking about democracy geographically. It is a major contribution to serious examination of a normative political issue from a geographical perspective. This is welcome above all because geography is a field whose cultural and economic branches, though often claiming the appellation “critical”, are currently dominated by unexamined radical political fantasies’ – John Agnew, University of California, Los Angeles

      In an historically unprecedented way, democracy is now increasingly seen as a universal model of legitimate rule.This work addresses the key question: How can democracy be understood in theory and in practise?

      In three thematically organised sections, Spaces of Democracy uses a critical geographical imagination (informed by thinking on space, place, and scale) to interrogate the latest work in democratic theory. Key ideas and concepts discussed include globalization and transnationalism; representation; citizenship; liberalism; the city and public space; and the media.

      This volume comprises commissioned work by leading academics investigating democracy. Historical and comparative, animated by wider debates on globalization, it will facilitate the critical discussion of core questions on citizenship, the state, and democracy. Spaces of Democracy is essential reading for students of human geography, political science/international relations, and political sociology.

      https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/spaces-of-democracy/book224891

    285. Breastplate says:

      CBB,
      I would not discard your point of view as I believe understanding alternative views are important and add value to our own opinions.

      I don’t find disagreement a provocation but an opportunity to enhance our understanding of the bigger picture.
      It’s also more fun than an echo chamber.

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      Breastplate
      I’m not trying to butter you up but you’re not wrong. 😉

      PLURALISM AND DEMOCRATIC THEORY: FOUNDATIONS AND CHALLENGES
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333450610_PLURALISM_AND_DEMOCRATIC_THEORY_FOUNDATIONS_AND_CHALLENGES

    287. Fireproofjim says:

      Late and very OT.
      Andy Murray through to last 16 at Cincinnati open. Beat Alexander Zverev and will play Milos Raonic next. Hasn’t played a match for ten months since surgery now back on form.
      Scotland’s greatest ever sportsman.

    288. Jim Forsyth says:

      CamB

      I think you have emptied the place, the floor is yours.

    289. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jim Forsyth
      That’s your opinion. You might be correct but an educator has to educate. 😉

      Framing in Sustainability Science pp 17-33
      Theoretical and Methodological Pluralism in Sustainability Science

      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-13-9061-6_2

    290. Beaker says:

      @jfngw says:
      24 August, 2020 at 10:35 pm
      “Maybe it’s forward planning, they expect to lose any referendum. The next ploy will be to try and delegitimise the vote ‘so many Scots disenfranchised’. WM then claim they can’t respect the vote and just try to ignore it. It’s all about attempting to confuse the voters, plant the idea of unfairness in their heads.”

      Fair comment.

      It’s been a fucking surreal year so far that I can tell you.

      Wonder what the hell is going to happen next.

    291. leither says:

      love yer links cameron

    292. Willie says:

      I appreciate that folks age, and folks decide it’s time to hang up their boots.

      But is there a message in some of the stalwarts who have now announced that they are not hanging about for another five years. Not for them the desire to remain in post until the goal of independence but rather a recognition that election to the Scottish Parliament will be another five year term of devolved government, and a shredded devolved government at that.

      And that vision is exactly what Roseanna Cunningham has said when she says that she’d be 74 and the end of the next Scottish Parliament..And ipso facto Michael Russel, Alex Neil, Jeanne Freeman, Linda Fabiani seem to be saying exactly the same thing. Independence under the guidance of Nicola Sturgeon does not seem to be on the horizon, but then again Nicola Sturgeon has herself declared that she will be First Minister for the next five years.

      The SNP policy cat, or at least the SNP hierarchy’s Policy cat, seems to be out the bag. But for many of us we know that.

      The fight for the party’s heart and soul is thus an existential one and a absolute reinforcement of why the current coterie of control seeks to do down Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry and all those who want to step up the fight for independence rather than resile from it.

      But independence is achievable. The popular support is there, the opportunity is now, this this is why we need to get the SNP and the independence movement back on track.

      And this is why as older stalwarts pass on the baton we must ensure that they are replaced by folks equally committed to what we are about.

    293. susan says:

      Seems like the woke takeover of the SNP is almost complete. Guess we’ll have to find another vehicle for independence. Sad but true.

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      leither
      I thought I might have overdone things, unlike the ‘party of independence’. 😉

      The Populist Challenge to Liberal Democracy

      ABSTRACT

      Across the West, economic dislocation and demographic change have triggered a demand for strong leaders. This surge of populism is more than an emotional backlash; it encourages a political structure that threatens liberal democracy. While populism accepts principles of popular sovereignty and majoritarianism, it is skeptical about constitutionalism and liberal protections for individuals.

      Moreover, populists’ definition of “the people” as homogeneous cannot serve as the basis for a modern democracy, which stands or falls with the protection of pluralism. Although this resurgent tribalism may draw strength from the incompleteness of life in liberal society, the liberal-democratic system uniquely harbors the power of self-correction, the essential basis for needed reforms.

      https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/the-populist-challenge-to-liberal-democracy/

    295. mike cassidy says:

      And the woke cancel-culture mob claims another victim.

      Of course it wasn’t a man!

      https://archive.vn/6Q7E5

    296. stuart mctavish says:

      Fireproof Jim @12:20

      Not that OT given the title.
      Closing date for entries to Tokyo Olympics has now been pushed back to 5 July 2021 so there should still be time to enter a Scottish team, irrespective of whether the confirmatory referendum is to be held before or after the games proper – it just needs SNP to stop bumping gums on OP agendas and start setting their own..

      That said, even if the cunning plan is to have all the athletes train in hope of making the GB team, (ie with a view to their being even better when qualifying comes around), the sports minister still probably needs to wake up, find a voice, and ensure that sports clubs are given increased and favoured access to training facilities in any event.

    297. Rm says:

      If people born in Scotland but not staying here can vote that means it should only be Scots born people who are allowed to vote, normal council elections it would be right that everyone staying in Scotland and paying council tax can vote, but to determine the future of a country it has to be Scots born people only, if england wanted their independence and I stayed down there I certainly don’t think I would have the right to vote because I wasn’t born there, the Scottish government have to get this sorted out.

    298. Big Jock says:

      Stuart – I can’t remember the country.

      However there is an Olympic team where the country is not independent. It just needs the will , and apparently the OIC have discretion to allow this entry.

      Never quite sure why Scotland competes in it’s biggest sport Football as independent but not Athletics. I used to compete at a fairly high amateur level in the masters track racing. I won various Scottish medals at this level. I could then compete for my club at the British champs in England.

      However if I ever wanted to do the Euro champs or the worlds I had to wear a GB vest. Something I never did for obvious reasons!

      I also ran in the home nations cross country for Scotland in Dublin. So it’s entirely an administration decision.

      Like Tennis unfortunately Scotland does not opt out of the GB set up. It’s mainly just tradition.

      I lost respect for Murray when he frequently appeared in that GB strip and was happy to call himself a Brit. He moved south and as usual he had to drop his nationality for the English to support him!

    299. Big Jock says:

      Stuart –

      Hong Kong
      Virgin Islands
      Cayman Islands

      All have teams but are not independent.

    300. Rick H Johnston says:

      It’s hard not to like Andy Murray, especially after his GO FOR IT on the morning of the Indyref in 2014.
      What has always rankled wi me tho is Wimbledon being the ALL ENGLAND club.
      Is that supposed to include us too.
      Echos of Trafalgar and ENGLAND EXPECTS.
      There, I’ve wanted to say that for a long time. Lesson over.

    301. Oneliner says:

      With the 3000+ civil servant jobs allocated to Scotland come 3000+ ‘No’ votes.

      Escape and evasion / disinformation and diffusion / infiltration and fragmentation.

      It’s already started, in fact some of the players are / have appeared on here. The Marquis of Queensberry – forget him (they have) and remember The Dukes of Cumberland and Sutherland.

    302. Beaker says:

      @Rm says:
      25 August, 2020 at 8:22 am
      “If people born in Scotland but not staying here can vote that means it should only be Scots born people who are allowed to vote, normal council elections it would be right that everyone staying in Scotland and paying council tax can vote, but to determine the future of a country it has to be Scots born people only”

      It’s never going to happen. What if someone was born in another country but move here when still a baby?

      What about those born in Scotand but moved to another country when a baby, say 50 years ago. Why the fuck should they get a vote?

      Never mind it would be impracticable, you would also have to create a “racial ancestry”, and that is exactly how it would be portrayed. Such a move would be deeply damaging and I reckon would probably be illegal or certainly challenged in the courts.

      In effect, you would have to produce a birth / adoption certificate to prove your legitimacy to vote.

      Go on. Try and promote the idea and see how far you get.

    303. The Black Douglas died 25 August 1330, Teba, Spain,while on route to take The Bruce`s heart to Jerusalem,

      there is a monument to Douglas in Teba and a festival held every year (though not this year),

      obviously nowt held in his own country because it`s Scottish history not Roman or fricken Viking era, the cringe is rampant in Scottish academia and media.

    304. Effijy says:

      SNP’s retirees are in the main the sort that are not in there to
      Hang on for as much money as they can for their own bank book.

      Ms Freeman must be exhausted as her role as Health Minister is
      The favourite area of attack by the English Parties and the UK media.

      Our NHS out performs all others every year so they really don’t like that
      So bogus stories and attacks are constant to try and persuade the gullible
      It isn’t so.

      The Covid Crisis and the calls for resignation must wear out the most capable
      Of Ministers.

      Who next is willing to put a target on their chest and have the spotlight on them?

      Unionists actively hope Scots health services would crumble and higher death rates would be
      A welcome weapon in their armoury.

    305. leither says:

      love your links cameron

    306. kapelmeister says:

      Sean Connery is 90 today. He’s done more to bring independence closer than all of Sturgeon’s People on the NEC put together.

    307. Rick H Johnston says:

      Big Jock, There’s only one thing more liberating than running– Scottish Independence.
      Seeing a Scottish Olympic team is a dream many of us hope to see come true in the coming years.
      Too many folk however have nae imagination
      but come independence a Scottish Olympic team will give so many more young Scots the chance to compete at that level.
      Good luck to Cayman Islands Etc but we’ll be taking the direct route with independence.

    308. Big Jock says:

      Sean should have been our first republican president. He would need to drop the Sir though!

    309. Big Jock says:

      Well Rick – My dream was. If I ever reached the level of the Olymics.(alas)

      To stand with my back to the crowd when GSTQ was played! How any Scot can listen to that shite is beyond me. Murray does it frequently. It’s why I think his principles are ripped out of him by the English media.

      This rebel would never have done so!

    310. Mialuci says:

      Breeks says

      You can’t even see what you said in print, ah well your just another twat to be ignored, and btw, have a nice day

    311. robbo says:

      Swear to god. I can’t take anymore of this thick cunt.

      https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/1297825625131098114

    312. Republicofscotland says:

      “Never quite sure why Scotland competes in it’s biggest sport Football as independent but not Athletics”

      Big Jock.

      Off the top of my head I recall reading something years ago about FIFA lacking funds and the Home nations of the UK playing against each other to raise funds for FIFA, and in return FIFA granted the nations their own national teams international status as a thank you.

    313. Mialuci says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Cameron, this is a genuine question, is your health ok, you seem to post on here quite a lot and that looks like you don’t get about much, I don’t read your posts as they are to long for my taste, I prefer to read a book, at least I can get out the house now and again, your posts would keep me chained to my computer all day, all the best mate, be happy and stay healthy

    314. Mike d says:

      Big jock 9.53am. You have to be a ‘proud scot’ to listen to that shite.

    315. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @bipod, Breastplate et al –

      You will know what I’m referring to when I say ‘plandemic’. People like CameronB won’t, so he’ll go and check on Google. By checking on Google, he’ll mainline the narrative they want him to believe and online ‘fact-checkers’ will reinforce it. So that excuses him from any further study and he can chastise the rest of us for believing ‘conspiracy theories’.

      As George Carlin said, they’ve got us by the balls.

    316. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Some chat here about a Scottish Olympic team.

      In the current climate – impossible. Something best left until we actually are independent.

      First of all we would need the support of the Scottish Government. I would suggest they have other priorities, and since they do not seem overly concerned about pushing independence for the entire Scottish nation, I do not see them moving quickly to support the Scottish governing bodies of the various Olympic sports, should they decide to push for independence.

      That’s another impediment, no way can I see – to use just one sport as an example – the high heid yins of Scottish equestrian sports, many of whom are at least “the honourable,” or even titled, breaking away from the British governing bodies.

      Then there is the money. Running elite sports is expensive, it will need government finance – I think the SG will tell them, they have other priorities.

      OK, suppose every Scottish governing body of every Olympic sport agreed, yes, we go it alone and enter as Scotland. They would then have to get together and form the Scottish Olympic Association. They would then have to apply for and be given recognition by the International Olympic Committee.

      That would be far from a given, some of these officials have been on the gravy train for a long time. They would need to get off, with no guarantee of getting back on, and I can certainly see the BOC, Britain’s Olympic Games body, being less than pleased at such a move – particularly when they might lose one or two potential medalists in the process.

      Let’s not put the sporting cart before the horse, do things in order – starting by winning the main game, and becoming an independent nation. After that gold medal is clinched, we can think of winning sporting baubles.

    317. Republicofscotland says:

      Big Jock.

      The Olympic Charter does not recognise Scotland as a sovereign nation, so in effect Scotland has never competed at the Olympic games. In 2007 Alex Salmond brought the idea up and their was a campaign for Scotland to compete at the Olympics, the (IOC), International Olympic Committee agreed that if Scotland became independent in 2014 a Scottish Olympic team would be eligible for the 2016 Olympic games in Rio Brazil.

      Just let that sink in for a moment, Scotland one of the oldest countries in Europe, and the elder partner in this horrendous union, has never competed on the greatest sporting stage on Earth.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_a_Scottish_Olympic_Team

    318. Effijy says:

      You can see how well Scotland does at sports as a Nation.
      Before a troll jumps in to say England won more medals, you
      Have to pro rata as per population.
      With 10 times the population they would need 190 medals to match us!
      2014 Commonwealth Games medal table.

      England managed to reduce the competitiveness of all the other nations when
      Robbing and killing the natives on behalf of the Empire’s richest sons.

      Rank CGA Gold Silver Bronze Total
      1 England (ENG) 58 59 57 174
      2 Australia (AUS) 49 42 46 137
      3 Canada (CAN) 32 16 34 82
      4 Scotland (SCO)* 19 15 19 53
      5 India (IND) 15 30 19 64
      6 New Zealand (NZL) 14 14 17

    319. Jim Forsyth says:

      Is Andy Murray not a member of the exclusive London Club that Roof the Poof is joining next year?

      Andy Murray, Roof Davidson, Jack McConnell.

      Unionist Patsies one and all.

    320. Flower of Scotland says:

      Why is it that some of our best politicians in the SNP are going to step down at the next election?

      The SNP has been hijacked, the NEC is now ruled by Wokes, and folk on twitter think it’s just because these politicians are in their late 60s or a bit older and need to retire?

      These politicians have fought hard for Independence and they are going to stop when we supposedly are nearly there? There is terrible shit at the heart of the SNP.

      As an activist and member of the SNP for 56 years this year, I’m as mad as hell!

    321. Flower of Scotland says:

      Jim Forsyth 10.56

      Andy Murray is a supporter of Scottish Independence.

    322. Robert Graham says:

      Apparently the Whitewash inquiry into the vendetta against Alex is set to resume,
      Anyone have any information ?
      Thanks

    323. Jim Forsyth says:

      Flower of Scotland,,,

      SIR Andy Murray to you.

    324. MaggieC says:

      Scot gov committee meeting live now , into inquiry about harassment procedures set up that went for Alex Salmond , it’s 2 civil servants this am . I forgot it started at 10.30 am .

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/

    325. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Jim Forsyth

      Stop showing your stupidity boy. Andy Murray is a KB, as such entitled to be known as Sir Andy Murray.

      When Ruth the mooth becomes Baroness Buffalo, she will become a Baroness. Barons and Baronesses, unlike knights, are entitled to sit in the House of Lords.

      Andy is one step up from the common herd, Ruth is being placed three steps up. Talent has nothing to do with it, she’s better at sookin-up than Andy.

    326. Bill McLean says:

      Scots won 25% of medals at the 2016 Olympics – something I had to remind the twerp, Tory MSP Brian Whittle of, in a letter to the Sunday Herald in 2017. He had opined that “sport would sink massively” if Scotland was an independent country. Not bad sinking for a population share of 8.4%! Woesome Whittle did not reply of course – left his brains on the running track I expect! Working, with my Brummy wife who still refers to Fife as “home”, on a return to reality in Scotland soon. Don’t want to be accused of living in England for too long again.

    327. MaggieC says:

      Robert Graham @ 11.04 am

      Sorry I’ve just seen your post , I forgot the committee meeting started a bit earlier this am so I’ve missed the start of it but the full transcript will be posted later today , I think it’s usually after 6.30 pm approx so I’ll post a link to it later on when it’s been published . As I said at 11.09 it’s live now .

    328. Achnababan says:

      Anyone else think its curious that none of the SNP big guns retiring at next years election to the Scottish Parliament have said ‘it was a privilege to have served in Nicola Sturgeon’s government’?

    329. Robert Graham says:

      Re previous request for information about the Whitewash inquiry its on live on Parliament TV .

      22 Seconds and Jigsaw is mentioned already

      That will give everyone a good idea of how the Whitewash is about to proceed.

      Anyone have trouble sleeping ? Listen to 5 minutes of this guff and you will nod off without any problems , so much drawn out meaningless waffle , the only entertaining bit is listening to the verbal gymnastics to avoid straying from extremely severe guidelines that appear to be the whole point and not actually revealing any evidence ,

      Everyone knows it was a almighty balls up and cost approximately Half a Million Quid let’s just see how far the participants go to make sure we don’t find anything more than we already know, body language will be very interesting I believe .

      “Not to my Knowledge” will be used extensively I wonder if anyone could keep the Score I guess about 20 that’s once in each carefully spoken answer ,

    330. Big Jock says:

      No-one deserves a knighthood. Any Scot who accepts one. Endorses the monarchy, The Tory Party, the corrupt House Lord’s, the corrupt honours system, their status as a subject.

      There is no defence for anyone, and I include big Sean.

    331. stonefree says:

      @ susan at 6:49 am
      I can’t agree more
      Alex Neil’s departure reveals how bad it really is. Wokism is the SNP’s Militant-Tendency the difference is they are NOT left-wing BUT right wing who would be happy in the Tories. They are NOT equals they have a structure of “We’re better than everyone else”…..Militant was restricted ,I can’t say controlled by Labour’s NEC…SNP’s Problem there is no Neil Kinnock ( I find that difficult to say) and the Wokies are the SNP’s NEC

      I’ve vote SNP for about 30 year with a few lapses ,No more I can’t vote for people that are liars and really of questionable character as both my MP and MSP are.
      I have integrity
      I can’t imagine how it would feel to have backed a party for 50 years to see it wrecked Sturgeon and Smith

    332. stonefree says:

      @ Flower of Scotland at 10:59 am

      I posted before I saw your post

    333. Achnababan says:

      Looks like James Hynd is shitting bricks at the Holyrood enquiry..

    334. John H. says:

      Rick H Johnston 9.25am.

      I’m afraid this won’t help your blood pressure Rick. Many among the crews weren’t even English.

      http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/news/item/784-hms-victory-her-crew-at-the-battle-of-trafalgar

    335. Robert Graham says:

      Inquiry new suspended for 5 Minutes (while they get their story straight)
      We are now treated to a view of the Celiing
      Probably more tnteresting than the inquiry
      Jesus and these folks call this work,
      I give up

    336. The Parliamentary enquiry.

      Alex Cole0Hamilton just asked a question that clearly identifies one of the complainers.

      He asked the civil servant if it was right for a person who was a complainer to have been involved with producing the policy.

      The Convenor then asked another question that further identified who it was.

      Previously not 15 minutes before both questions they named 3 people who were involved with the policy. Sturgeon and Evans were 2 of the names.

    337. John H. says:

      Bill McLean 11.18am.

      I hope you and your wife can return to Scotland soon Bill. We need all the help we can get.

    338. Effijy says:

      What a farce that everyone is terrified to use the name the
      Jigsaw clues clearly identify.

      Our Lord Advocate and HR Government have made our justice system
      Such a farce we are living in fear of saying you can see the King’s bare
      arse because there are no magical robes that only the elite can see.

      Maybe Craig should say Beetlejuice 3 times to break the spell?

      We do need an Independence Party or we Will die in a Tory fantasy land of horrors.

    339. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Are you suggesting I’m in some way politically naive?

    340. Tannadice Boy says:

      Tannadice boy

      The Inquiry and what I am hearing. Is that the email you passed to him to give back to her? No that would be the draft e mail. Is that e mail X003? My number referencing doesn’t match yours I will need to get back you on that. The latest people survey shows a dramatic improvement and is now World leading. Who signed the analysis off? I will check that out and get back to you. What about the missing e mails? Would that be the draft unpublished e mails? I will get back to you on that. Sir Humphrey would be smiling.

    341. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m trained to support democracy through science and the law.

      Democracy, sustainability and dialogic accounting
      technologies: Taking pluralism seriously

      http://scinet.dost.gov.ph/union/UploadFiles/download.php?b=sdarticle_002_177239.pdf&f=../Downloads/sdarticle_002_177239.pdf&t=application/pdf

    342. Black Joan says:

      “If the party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened — that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death.”

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/08/the-great-cover-up/

    343. cirsium says:

      @IanB, 10.24

      Regarding the plandemic, we are witnessing a global crime against humanity

      As George Carlin said, they’ve got us by the balls.

      That being so, I’m going to follow the practice of William the Silent

      “One need not hope in order to undertake, nor succeed in order to persevere.”

    344. CameronB Brodie says:

      I just stuck this on the wrong thread.

      Ignorance breads fear, which undermines the capacity to resist authoritarianism. Yes, our liberty is under threat a never before, but a scientific world-view is not the enemy.

      Citizenship Education for Adults for Sustainable Democratic Societies

      Abstract
      Adults have a key role in ensuring that society is democratic and sustainable, by making decisions about the permanence and continuity of the world/society, and as role models to the new participants in a democratic society.

      In this context, the purpose of this research is to determine the citizenship education needs of adults in a sustainable democratic society. The study was designed in a qualitative research pattern and was carried out using the case study method. The study group consisted of adults, who were determined by criteria sampling method. Demographic data, a semi-structured interview form, and scenario texts were used to obtain data. The data obtained were analysed by using the content analysis method.

      Perspectives on adult citizenship education were presented according to the themes created. It was found that participants have a citizenship tendency in line with the traditional national citizenship approach and behaved accordingly. In conclusion, this study proposes that citizenship education should be organized for adults, who are today’s decision makers and role models for tomorrow’s decision makers, in order to improve their political literacy, legal literacy, and political, social, civic engagement and democratic values, which will contribute to the goal of a sustainable democracy in society.

      Keywords:
      sustainability; democracy; adult education; citizenship education; citizenship awareness

      https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/12/1/56/htm

    345. Breastplate says:

      Effigy,
      I agree that we need an independence party for 2021 on the list that would then be ready to contest constituency seats in the subsequent HE.
      Of course if independence is delivered meantime it becomes a welcome moot point.
      There will be much discussion of independence in the next term of government not least because the USA will be approaching 250 years of self determination and the events leading to the expulsion of the British.
      The Boston Tea Party will celebrate their semi quincentennial in December 2023.

      Unfortunately, I have little doubt that Scotland will be looking on in envy.

    346. deerhill says:

      Socrates MacSporran 24/8/20 @9.41 pm

      Thanks for that info.

      Dundonald Road is the Poshist of the Posh!

    347. Effijy says:

      Don’t know if many here have toured India in their day
      But I can assure you the levels of poverty are something
      The Tory Party can only dream of.

      When they announce 6,000 plus new Covid cases in 24 hours,
      I take it that they can only represent those who have some
      Money or the worst cases accepted by charities.

      Most visitors are shocked by what happens in the streets as there
      Are no public toilets. Thousands of orphaned kids with rags on struggling
      To find food or money to fund a meal.

      They live cheek by jowl and have no chance of self isolation in one confined space.

      The virus must be present in vast numbers there and with no hope of stopping.

    348. Andy Murray carried the union flag in at the olympics I wonder what his namesake who fought and died with Wallace would have thought of that ??? As for who votes in ref.,2 only those who were born and live in Scotland should be allowed to decide the future of THEIR country no one else in ref 1 80 per cent of Incomers voted no and thus,gave victory to a minority of Scots this must not be allowed to happen again it is against all the rules of justice and fair play PS. I am saying this and I live in England so I am deprivin my selfe of a vote although I would vote yes

    349. stuart mctavish says:

      @MaggieC
      Apparently Jimmy Hind has colleagues who had a ‘business reason’ to be involved with development of procedures – begging questions as to whether
      (a) they might be moonlighting for Epstein’s successor and
      (b) such moonlighting is tolerated/ common.

      Meanwhile in other chamber, the debate of a bill butchering Scots law on defamation, which appears set to replace common law defence with statute in line with pre prorogation English law (amongst others)… begs further questions as to
      (a) from where the demand
      (b) who is expected to gain from such changes

    350. jfngw says:

      @Black Joan

      A bit surprised CM put the document with his full address online without blocking it out, no point asking for trouble.

    351. leither says:

      inquiry a yawnfest

    352. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @cirsium (12.40) –

      Agreed.

      Feels hopeless at times but that’s a nice quote, haven’t seen it before.

      😉

    353. Lothianlad says:

      I’m actually lost for words to describe the anger and disbeleif I feel regarding the way Craig Murray, Alex Salmond and others are currently being treated by the So called Scottish establishment.

      Stu has tried relentlessly to try and find accountability among them. Craig has been charged for effectively trying to expose the truth in the absence of an impartial media, mark hirst similarily. Alex Salmond, the greatest ambassador Scitland has had in recent times, utterly backstabbers by the same people he thought were on the same team for independence.

      Some here still think the british secret service are not involved?

      Sturgeon trolls or half wits the lot of them.
      Maybe I just need to add more weight to my argument. Lol.

    354. Jim Forsyth says:

      Effijy 1.01pm

      You say there are no public toilets in India,,,

      There are no fuckin public toilets in Scotland.

      You could drive for hundreds of miles without sight of one.

      Scottish public toilets are a dying breed.

      They should be catagorised as a protected species,,With only a few matings couples left to save the breed,,,

      Action needs to be taken, before they are wiped out off the face of the earth completely.

    355. Craig Murray says:

      For Capella, Schrodinger’s Cat, Dr Jim and all of the others who refuse to believe it was Nicola and her inner circle who attempted to fit up Alex.

      You continually ask why we do not produce the evidence. Here is the definitive answer.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/08/the-great-cover-up/

    356. Cath says:

      What a farce that everyone is terrified to use the name the Jigsaw clues clearly identify.

      It’s so hard watching that enquiry once you’ve figured out who the complainant is. A farce is right, and if they wanted a process which looked transparent and not like a stitch up, they couldn’t have gone about it in a worse way.

    357. kapelmeister says:

      For 112 years up until 2008, Dick McTaggart had been the only Scot to be GB flag bearer at the Olympics. That was in Rome in 1960.

      Then lo and behold, after the arrival of the SNP in Holyrood government in 2007, Hoy was the closing ceremony GB flag bearer in 2008. Then Hoy was opening ceremony bearer in 2012 in London. Then Andy Murray carried the union flag in the opening ceremony in Rio 2016. And didn’t a Scot carry the b apron in the winter games in recent years?

      Interesting fact. Many Irish athletes refused to take part in the GB&I team for the 1908 London Olympics over the British government’s persistent refusal to grant Irish home rule.

    358. The Dissident says:

      By my reckoning one fifth of the SNP Parliamentary group are choosing to stand down when we are supposedly on the cusp of forming the first Independent Scottish Parliament in hundreds of years.

      For people (and I know the majority of them personally) who have devoted the best part of their adult life to this cause, it is utterly incredulous that they would simply give up the prospect of serving in that most historic of institutions just because they are getting old, feel tired or want more time with their family.

      They have all concluded, at the same time, that whatever sacrifice they make to serve just ain’t worth it any more. If they truly believed an Independent Scottish Parliament was within touching distance they would most certainly not be standing down. For folk to suggest otherwise is ludicrous and, actually, insulting to everything these parliamentarians have contributed over the years.

      And, of course, there are two other casualties in MacKay and McDonald who will be standing down for other reasons.

    359. Big Jock says:

      If only our athletes had some gumption. I can’t believe in all those years , that not one Scot has been a republican or nationalist.

      Oh eh….Andy Murray..

    360. Big Jock says:

      Sturgeon is toast by the way. She knew this was coming , so should have stood down last December if she wanted to protect the party and the cause.

      The truth lies in her actions. She doesn’t care who or what she damages to protect herself.

      We need to make her leave.

    361. leither says:

      craig murray

      your post concerns your up and coming hearing regarding your supposed publishing of material identifying witnesses

      nothing to do with proof of anything

      in case you havent noticed craig, they came for assange and they got him, now they are coming for you.

      there will be no justice for you

    362. robertknight says:

      Leither…

      Not sure if I can say this strongly enough…

      FOAD

    363. Jim Forsyth says:

      I will support any person, any team, any Country who is competing AGAINST any person or team representing TeamGB.

      End of…

      The sight of the Butchers Apron fills me with hate and anger.

      So trying to win any competition that represents TeamGB is a no no for me, and I will vigorously oppose any person or team who tries to do so.

      Fuck your TeamGB and fuck your Butchers Apron.

      Are you listening Andy Murray?

    364. Craig Murray says:

      leither

      are you illiterate? can you actually read the correspondence?

    365. Capella says:

      @ Craig Murray – I can’t speak for the others but I don’t “refuse to believe” anything. I do want to see the evidence and, until then, innocent until proven guilty prevails.

      Your post on the COPFS treatment of your evidence is not actually evidence that Nicola Sturgeon is guilty of anything. I appreciate your struggle to get the truth established and support you on that.

      Good luck tomorrow.

      Some telling evidence of the development of the Scottish Government’s anti harassment policy was given today, particularly by the HR person Nicola Richards. The broadcast ended abruptly just as Linda Fabiani asked about the policy being shown to a potential complainer before it was signed off. But not before this was examined by others. Very curious procedure.

    366. Craig Murray says:

      Capella look through the list of requested documents.

      You are going to have to believe that Nicola Sturgeon’s husband, her chief of staff, and the chief operating officer of the SNP, were all up to their neck in something she knew nothing about.

    367. Jim Forsyth says:

      robertknight 1.43pm

      Regards Leither,,,

      I think if you refer to him with his proper name he might listen to you.

      His previous names include:-

      The Cat.
      Bungo.
      Pete Wishart.

      Or plane old “The site pest” (or is that robbo?)

      But anyway, best ignored.

    368. leither says:

      @craig

      yeah, i can read

      you asked for info concerning the trial from various sources.

      the authorities said no

      what has any of this to do with you supposidly revealing the identities of witnesses?

    369. Richard says:

      Boris is apparently to resign in 6 Months, according to Dominic Cummings father.
      Don’t know if this enhances indy or not?

    370. Capella says:

      @ Craig Murray – I do appreciate you have information which the rest of us have not seen. But I think you are in a dangerous position atm and I would caution against going further on such a public forum.

      You know that The Devil is the Father of Lies.
      But Truth is the Daughter of Time.

      I’m a very patent person. Best of luck with your court case.

    371. Craig Murray says:

      leither

      Your last section is very plain evidence you did not read the correspondence as that is explained by my lawyers at great length.

    372. Craig Murray says:

      your last question, sorry

    373. Capella says:

      patent = patient !

    374. leither says:

      why you chose to have this discussion on wos and not your own blog, i dont know, but if i were you, i’d take Capella’s advice

    375. Lothianlad says:

      Craig Murray

      It’s your courage and those like you who speak the truth that gives hope to many others.
      You also have the establishment sweating as the truth is what they fear the most.
      Be strong. Remember Daniel walked fearlessly into the lions den!

    376. Jim Forsyth says:

      Craig Murray 1.44pm

      The Cat
      Capella
      robbo
      Bungo
      Pete Wishart
      Famous15
      Lizg

      And a few others who frequent this site are Staunch, diehard, Sturgeonistas.

      They will not have one bad word said against her.

      They are like a Cult and will not listen to reason.

      They come on here to defend the indefensible.

      They Troll this site, convinced Nicola is the one.

      But more and more of us see through the Sturgeon persona of being this quaint homely leader where even butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth.

      She is one evil, lying, self serving little bitch.

    377. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Richard @ 1.55pm

      In six month’s time, Brexit will be done, probably as a no-deal affair.

      Chaos will be upon us, but, BoJo will have done what he was put there to do for his mega-rich backers. He will then have time to abandon ship, before the shit storm of the realithy of a no-deal Brexit and an overwhelming SNP win at Holyrood hits him.

      He will then be able to “advise” from the side lines, while some other poor shmuck tries to clean-up his mess.

      And the Telegraph will pay him royally while he does not repent at leisure for the chaos he has caused.

      Throw in him being the first PM since Eden to accept an Earldom and, job done.

    378. James Che. says:

      It is very encouraging to see so many unionist papers trying to corner the snp, along with Scottish tories, Scottish Labour, Scottish libdems and uk civil servants.
      Hopefully the snp will be totally weakened and toothless by the time the Scottish election comes around.

    379. Breeks says:

      I wonder whether these MSP’s who are all standing down might consider joining a Scottish Senate, formed to pick up the cudgels of defending Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty from unconstitutional subjugation or colonial aggression coming from the UK state.

      If the Scottish “Government” sees it’s primary roll and function is legitimising Westminster’s colonial encroachment of Scotland’s Constitution through the Scotland Act, and has doomed Holyrood to perpetual subservience, then who is there left to monitor and repulse this colonial encroachment and stand up for Scotland’s constitutional rights?

      Wouldn’t one solution be to take the Declaration of Arbroath at it word, and swear in “but 100 of us left alive”, or in other words, 100 Scottish “Senators” to sit as an Upper House Scottish Legislature, sworn in to defend Scotland’s Constitutional integrity, and if necessary, chastise the devolved Scottish legislature of Holyrood if or when it act unconstitutionally.

      The Scottish Senate might be codified as an Upper House, or the “Sovereign” Scottish Government in waiting, with no allegiance or fealty whatsoever to Westminster, or indeed the Crown, but as such, be in a strong constitutional position to petition the EU and UN directly, not via Westminster, as a sovereign entity which formally disputes UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, protests the propaganda and misinformation which masquerades as news media, denounces malicious conspiracies against our leaders, demands Scot’s Law is applied even handedly, and biggest of all, seeks appropriate recognition of the Sovereign Scottish Constitution.

      Before you say it, I know there is a question of democracy to be addressed, but the first sitting of the new Senate might be “Honorary” Senators, largely symbolic appointments who’s position and roll is to simply give voice and substance to Scotland’s Constitution. Once the Senate is formed, we can choose how they are selected and their tenure in office. It needn’t necessarily be democratic, particularly if we want them to function as Constitutional watchdogs.

      A Scottish Senate would be internal to Scotland, and an unbreakable covenant might be formed between the Scottish people and their Constitutional rights which nobody can interfere with. It would be a law unto itself, sovereign, or rather the people would be a law unto themselves, sovereign, … but isn’t that the literal definition of what popular sovereignty is?

      Sovereignty is asserted, not requested. If Scotland wants a Senate, then Scotland can create one. It’s our sovereign prerogative.

      We don’t need to burn down Holyrood or set about it’s impeachment, we might instead create new Constitutional Body which Holyrood cannot properly ignore…

      Westminster is content to build it’s own colonial Scottish Office to undermine Holyrood. Strikes me two can play at that game, and our Constitution trumps theirs.

    380. leither says:

      @lothianlad

      “enter a group of black robed men. “We the officials of the PFJ do hereby convey our sincere and fraternal and sisterly greetings to you Craig on this occasion of your martyrdom……….”

    381. leither says:

      @craig

      The state is afforded considerable leeway in so far as they can choose who to prosecute. For example a couple of years ago the then (in)famous Tommy Robinson was summarily jailed under this very act. He was largely reading things aloud which the BBC had previously published. The fact that the state chose not to prosecute the BBC in no way assisted the defense of Mr. Robinson.

      you appear to believe that your hearing tomorrow is going to be a discussion about who framed rodger fuckin’ rabbit. I hope you have a good lawyer.

    382. Ottomanboi says:

      This is the thing that bring down Sturgeon and many, many others besides.
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/25/government-scientist-lockdown-was-a-monumental-mistake/
      We have been innocent dupes in corruption of science itself.
      The polymath Jacob Bronowski summed up this corruption of knowledge more than forty years ago:
      [To be] in love with the aristocracy of intellect…is a belief which can only destroy the civilisation that we know. If we are anything, we must be a democracy of the intellect. We must not perish by the distance between people and government, between people and power… And that distance can only be conflated, can only be closed, if knowledge sits in the homes and heads of people with no ambition to control others, and not up in the isolated seats of power.”
      [ from The Ascent of Man]
      In the words of brainy guy.
      The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
      [Albert Einstein]
      But just try saying that to a politician…

    383. James Che. says:

      Breeks, our local snp while out canvassing admitted to being ex-labour and intended to go back to labour after the election, also can be quoted as saying, that she thought that sovereignty should lie with the parliament, not the people, (from the horses mouth,) we had quite a disagreeable conversation,

    384. Big Jock says:

      Richard – Correct.

      Boris is only a patsy to deliver a hard Brexit. That was a poisoned challenge , that no prime minister could survive. It’s why a dithering idiot was appointed. Not sure who the next PM will be. But Boris secured them a large majority and 4 year term! So they can railroad every bat shit crazy they want through WM.

      Beware Scotland. The next Tory leader is coming for us. They will carve up Scotland worse than Thatcher. If we haven’t got rid of Sturgeon by then , we might as well hold up the white flags.

    385. Beaker says:

      @Breeks says:
      25 August, 2020 at 2:28 pm
      “I wonder whether these MSP’s who are all standing down might consider joining a Scottish Senate,”

      I’m in favour of an upper chamber, if only to try and tidy up some of the shambolic legislation that comes through from time to time.

      I agree with honourary appointments, but with safeguards.

      There must be a specified time in office, say 8 years.
      Members must not be active in any political party – a temporary suspension perhaps?
      Selection made up mainly by experienced politicians, but also drawn from the general public and sectors such as charity and public sector etc.
      Selection made by an independence committee with strict guidelines. No buying an position as happens with the HoL.

    386. Lothianlad says:

      It’s been a long day leither ….. if you have a thing for black robes men, beat check out some other web sites.

      I’m sure you will find something their to satisfy you.

    387. Republicofscotland says:

      They’ll be those who say shoosh don’t rock the boat with regards to Craig Murray’s stitch up, adding we don’t want to damage the independence cause over one man’s unjust court appearance and possible incarceration, those folk probably thought the same on Alex Salmond’s fit up as well, who would’ve more than likely spent the rest of his life in prison for crimes he did not commit, as long as it it didn’t damage the SNP government and independence.

      However like many I want to see an independent Scotland its a cherished dream for many of us. We see our cause as moral and just and it is, but these fit ups by the very people we put on pedestals to guide us, not just physically but morally towards independence and brighter safer more equal society in Scotland, bring shame and doubt on us all.

      Alex Salmond is the only FM ever to bring us to the brink of independence, and a long the way he took on the might of the British establishment, and we lauded him for it, infact we still do, or some of us still do. Craig Murray is an ardent exponent of Scottish independence, attending marches and giving rousing speeches in all weathers, with Sturgeon nowhere in sight, Craig now faces the full force of Scots laws, and cannot defend himself properly in court which I find disgraceful in a modern day Scotland.

      We all want Scottish independence, but at what cost for those who’ve been fitted up or accused of crimes whilst others who don’t want independence have actually committed the crimes but will face no justice.

      I’m worried that we’re attempting to leave one corrupt parliament government behind (Westminster) only to find out via the two men mentioned and Stuart Campbell, who’ve pointed this out,that our own parliaments government is much the same.

    388. Lothianlad says:

      Yep AS took us to the brink of independence taking on the might of the british state..

      Scotland is on the brink of Independence and NS is trying to retreat!

      That’s the difference between an honourable, sincere, patriotic (former) FM and a cowardly brit nat lying hack.

    389. Tannadice Boy says:

      So the question is and to paraphrase Alex Salmond. How is this evidence going to see the light of day?

    390. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 228pm,

      I’ve often thought that there is nothing to stop an organised group setting up a new fully independent Scottish parliament, that is not answerable to London or the Queen, but instead to the people via democratic vote. Once elected such a parliament would be free to use its democratic mandate (if one had been electorally sought) to declare independence.

      It would not be a devolved parliament. It would be a true re-incarnation of the suspended old Scots parliament which signed the treaty of union in the first place.

      Of course London would say it has no validity, but once an election is held, there would be nothing London could do.

      I do however, like the idea of a senate (not like the English lords nonsense), of say seven key Scots elected as guardians of the Scottish constitution. They could be called ‘Guardians of the Kingdom of Scotland’, maybe. That has a certain ring to it..

    391. Robert Louis says:

      Tannadice boy at 0251pm,

      Is there not an IRISH journalist, based in Ireland, who might be interested?, and could publish free from Scottish government censorship?

    392. Lothianlad says:

      Tannadice boy,

      The truth will always come out, thanks to the courage of Craig, Stu, Mark and others like them

    393. leither says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      They’ll be those who say shoosh don’t rock the boat with regards to Craig Murray’s stitch up,
      ———————

      i dont think this has anything to do with indy, nicola or alex.

      craig was an ambassador at the centre of the british establishment who he rebelled against. they will use any excuse to get him.

      a bit like assange, the (now dropped) swedish rape accusation was nothing more than a ruse to get julian over to america.

    394. leither says:

      soz

      Republicofscotland says:
      They’ll be those who say shoosh don’t rock the boat with regards to Craig Murray’s stitch up,
      ———————

      i dont think this has anything to do with indy, nicola or alex.

      craig was an ambassador at the centre of the british establishment who he rebelled against. they will use any excuse to get him.

      a bit like assange, the (now dropped) swedish r**e accusation was nothing more than a ruse to get julian over to america.

    395. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Robert Louis
      Alternative approaches may be required but let’s see how Craig gets on at his hearing. Certainly this Holyrood Inquiry is a joke. They are bringing the Parliament into disrepute with this nonsense. If I was on the Inquiry I would not sign off the final report. Of course the sole Green member will ensure a majority but if the others reject the conclusions then the output will be devoid of any credibility. Got to be moving into no confidence vote territory.

    396. Big Jock says:

      I think if Sturgeon was to resign now . We can still rescue the party and the cause.

      I think the longer she stays then the more anger and resentment will build. It’s not healthy to distrust your leader as much as we do right now.

      A new leader, new ideas and commitment to independence would galvanize support. Sturgeon seems to not care about the damage she is causing to peoples lives and the cause. For that reason I can’t see her leaving of her own accord.

      She is turning into Tony Blair.

    397. Robert Louis says:

      Leither at 3pm,

      Fact is that they tend not to put a bullet in people’s head on remote highland roads on the way to Inverness anymore, they just make up sexual assault charges instead. Enough to destroy an innocent man. The latest ‘wheeze’ is Scotland’s silly out of date contempt laws.

    398. Republicofscotland says:

      “dont think this has anything to do with indy, nicola or alex.

      craig was an ambassador at the centre of the british establishment who he rebelled against. they will use any excuse to get him”

      Leither.

      You’d be wrong in thinking that, Westminster advised the Scottish government not to make sexual complaints historical, and especially not against ex-minister,but the thought of removing Salmond the only person ever to take us to the brink of independence was too much, they had to smear him, why? What is that Alex did in the past that made him a threat to the current SNP governments heirarchy? He actually wanted to, and still does, want see a independent Scotland, that’s the threat in one.

      Craig reported on Salmond’s fit up on his blog daily until he too was fitted up. Craig gave us an insight into the trial that no other British nationalist newsrag or media programme dared to. Oh he’s a threat alright a threat to the disgraceful corrupt status quo in Scotland, he’d make one hell of an FM in my book.

    399. Robert Louis says:

      I think it tells us everything that 12 high profile SNP MSP’s have now decided to stand down in May 2021. These are real indy people, devoted to independence. I understand folk wanting to retire etc.. but seriously if I thought for one second that indy was around the corner via a Scottish government I was part of, I wouldn’t even think of retiring. I would be counting the days to insdyref2.

      We can only therefore, draw a logical conclusion, that things are as bad as we think, and that NS and her woke cabal have ZERO intention of pursuing indyref anytime soon, not even next year. We do need to wonder, in that context, as to whether it is even worth while voting for the SNP 1 next year, since they will not go for independence anyway.

    400. Lothianlad says:

      Big jock

      Exactly. Sturgeon is a liability to the independence cause and maybe we all need to rejoin the SNP to get this lot removed.

      If this could be organised we could reclaim the independence party, rather than having to start a new one.

      How ironic that we are having to consider a new independence party because the SNP has turned it’s back on independence .

    401. auld highlander says:

      Mandeep Sing has been jailed for seventy two days. How many more will be jailed before we get our freedom.

    402. Big Jock says:

      Lothian – I left the SNP for a week last year!

      I rejoined because I realised I can’t let two people take over and destroy the party I have been in for 30 odd years. Right now I am disgusted with everything that Nicola is doing. However I realised that’s what she wants. She wants all the good people to leave the party , so that she can continue with her Sturgeon road show.

      Like most things in life. Changes usually start with small ripples before the dam bursts. We are about to see the flood of senior SNP members quitting or taking her on. I believe it’s now unstoppable.

      She cannot spin her way out of this one!

    403. stuart mctavish says:

      @James Caithness
      Granted the annex A to FOI/17/02841 is undated, but article 6.5.4 of the fairness at work policy provided therein (which refers to a separate procedure in relation to current and former ministers) appears to have been extant since at least 2010..

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-02841/

      So its a it’ll be a bit odd if the committee allows poor Mr Hynd to continue to think that he introduced the process (in November 2017) all by himself:

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/committee-on-the-scottish-government-handling-of-harassment-complaints-august-25-2020?clip_start=10:58:55&clip_end=11:01:13

    404. leither says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      “dont think this has anything to do with indy, nicola or alex.

      craig was an ambassador at the centre of the british establishment who he rebelled against. they will use any excuse to get him”
      ————–

      You’d be wrong in thinking that,
      —————–

      why? plenty other journos revealed far more than craig but it wasnt them who got thrown out of court and then charged?

      did they just pull craigs name from a hat?

    405. Republicofscotland says:

      “why? plenty other journos revealed far more than craig but it wasnt them who got thrown out of court and then charged?

      did they just pull craigs name from a hat?”

      It’s not Westminster that’s pursuing Craig’s conviction.

    406. kapelmeister says:

      Prince Andrew is accused of having a sex trafficked girl coerced into sex with him in London by a known and previously convicted sex offender, and the Met don’t even investigate.

      Manny Singh is jailed for being in dispute with Glasgow City Council over a proposed well-ordered march which did pass off without any trouble.

    407. Breeks says:


      Robert Louis says:
      25 August, 2020 at 2:51 pm

      “… of say seven key Scots elected as guardians of the Scottish constitution. They could be called ‘Guardians of the Kingdom of Scotland’, maybe. That has a certain ring to it…

      I agree that 100 is too many and a bit unwieldy, and it would need whittled down, but just for that first, formative year, I like the resonance of having 100 people for the simple reason that the Declaration of Arbroath states that “for as long as there 100 of us still alive…”

      You could, if so inclined, interpret that to mean that a body of 100 Scottish people means our Sovereign Constitution is quite literally quorate, even it it’s just symbolically so.

      We could make it function however we liked. Maybe 6 or 7 permanent office bearers, and the other 100 honourary members just for the symbolism. I would avoid it becoming an “honour” for obvious reasons, and limited to a year or two in office.

      It would need some permanent staff, professional custodians of the Constitution who can train Senators to understand the position they hold, police their conduct, and keep their own house in order.

      I know it sounds a bit pie in the sky, but ‘if’ it already existed, then Holyrood would never have gotten itself into the mess it’s currently in. The Senate would have stepped in the moment Nicola Sturgeon set aside Scotland’s “sovereign” Remain mandate 2016.

    408. A lot in the media (spit) about `racial profiling` by the police and judicial services,

      `Racial or ethnic profiling is the act of suspecting or targeting a person on the basis of assumed characteristics or behavior of a racial or ethnic group, rather than on individual suspicion.`

      it seems in Scotland we have `political profiling` where if you are seen to be a member of the Scotish independence community the police and judiciary persecute,intimidate and harrass you much more than if you were a member of the British Nationalist community,

      this is all done in front of a spineless, useless, complicit, hypocritical media (spit).

    409. Colin Alexander says:

      Those who boast of Scots Law and look to it to deliver justice to our nation, remember: this is the system of “justice” that martyred:

      Andrew Hardie, John Baird and James Wilson.

      http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/the1820rising.htm

    410. leither says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      It’s not Westminster that’s pursuing Craig’s conviction.

      —————

      really, next you will be saying It’s not Westminster that’s pursuing Assange’s conviction its the whitehouse?

    411. holymacmoses says:

      Robert Louis says:
      25 August, 2020 at 3:15 pm
      ‘I think it tells us everything that 12 high profile SNP MSP’s have now decided to stand down in May 2021. These are real indy people, devoted to independence’

      Hi Robert Louis, I was rather hoping that the people who are standing down (alongside others we already know about) might form the backbone of a new party for the electorate to vote for on a list vote and thus force a change for Scotland by having an overwhelming ‘independence’ membership at Holyrood.

    412. Elmac says:

      Re auld highlander @ 3.27pm

      Thanks for the link. Yet again the National has failed to report the truth. As one of the marchers I can confirm that the numbers involved easily exceeded 100,000 not 30-40,000 as their “it is estimated” claim. This is a quite deliberate attempt to downplay the importance of these events. More importantly their article gives no real background as to why Manny Singh did not agree to the council edict on the change of time and route.

      I bought the National almost every day from its inception up to their biased reporting of the Salmond trial. I have never bought one of their rags since nor will I do so again. They are simply making money from the independence movement and when push comes to shove they show their true establishment colours.

    413. McDuff says:

      I am really dismayed at the majority of posters in the National who think Sturgeon is just fantastic.

    414. CameronB Brodie says:

      ….if knowledge sits in the homes and heads of people who may lack appropriate knowledge of how to support public health ethics and international law?

      An analysis of the relevance of deliberative democracy, agonistic pluralism, and pluralist group theory in explaining Twitter activity during the Scottish independence referendum 2014.

      Abstract

      This thesis is predominantly focused upon the relevance of deliberative democracy and agonistic pluralism in helping us to understand and analyse the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, as it played out on Twitter. In doing so, it advances theoretical political communication research into social media platforms, which often focuses upon the possibilities of deliberative democracy, whilst agonistic pluralism tends to be used in opposition to deliberative theory.

      Aspects of liberalism and communitarianism are also used in the empirical study as an aid to this comparison, by applying a model taken from Deen G. Freelon (2010). Uniquely, in addition to activist groups, journalists and MSPs are focused upon as key stakeholders in the democratic communication process. The thesis is qualitative, with a critical theory research philosophy which focuses upon pluralism as a theory which contextualises power relations in the democratic process, underpins the vital role of media plurality in liberal democracies, and is a forerunner of agonistic theory….

      https://rgu-repository.worktribe.com/OutputFile/348494

    415. twathater says:

      @ Mike Cassidy 7.20am thanks for that link Mike , another REAL FEMALE fired from her job DUE to complaints from trans activists FEELING INSULTED or ASHAMED of someone telling the TRUTH

      THIS is what the WHOLE of SCOTLAND faces when the GRA and HCB become law , not ONLY will you be FIRED from your job you will ALSO be IMPRISONED , and when you have NO JOB and NO INCOME your family will then be turfed out of your home

      THIS is the LEGACY that Nicola Sturgeon is IMPOSING on our Scottish people , where fear of infringing some lunatic laws designed to PROTECT science and biology deniers will mean you
      and your family will be considered as the untermenschen

      There is a period in history where this was carried out by evil people and it is reviled to this day

    416. gus1940 says:

      I hope that all Wingers are sitting back and laughing at the Rulebritanniagate pantomime currently diverting our pals down south from the impending disaster coming down the line.

    417. McDuff says:

      Elmac
      I agree.
      The National’s headline today “doners flock to new ultra unionist group” , a reference to SIU was almost a promotion of this insidious crowd.

    418. Achnababan says:

      holyrood enquiry…. every witness ends key sentences with ‘it was the First Minister…’

      Over to you Sturgeon…..

    419. Hughsie says:

      English Army to mothball their Tanks.

      Had to giggle at that one.

    420. Michael Laing says:

      I’ve just seen a link to this article on the RailScot web-site: https://newsdesk.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/news/avanti-west-coast-launches-the-uks-first-fully-wrapped-pride-train-staffed-by-all-lgbtq-crew

      This is getting totally ridiculous. Shouldn’t the aim be to arrive at a situation where a person’s sexuality is irrelevant and of no consequence? How can that be possible when non-heterosexual people single themselves out and make such a huge deal about themselves? I don’t care what people’s sexual orientation is and what they do in private, but I’m sick to the back teeth of having it constantly shoved in my face. It’s the opposite of inclusive, and I’m finding myself increasingly alienated and antagonised by it.

    421. Jim Forsyth says:

      No to Sturgeon

    422. Beaker says:

      Fuck me it’s been lively here this afternoon.

      A bit of o/t news: Harry McGuire has been found guilty on all charges by a Greek Court.

      Greeks don’t hang about. Aggravated assault, verbal assault, resisting address and attempting to bribe an official.

      Then we have Sterling buggering off to Bolt’s birthday party and Bolt has COVID.

      So much for footballers being role models. Southgate should consider himself lucky Sturgeon’s not on his case…

    423. Jim Forsyth says:

      This far and no further Nicola.

      Are you listening Sturgeon?

    424. Achnababan says:

      Why is Nicola Richards still in a job?

    425. susan says:

      It’s woke gone mad and I want nothing to do with it and I definitely don’t want to wake up in a woke Independent Scotland. It sounds like a totalitarian prison. And before anyone comments otherwise, yes I AM an independence supporter, just not at that price.

    426. Jim Forsyth says:

      Laugh for the day has to be the news that the mighty english Army has to mothball their fleet of Challenger Tanks.

      At this rate the english will be lucky to stave off an attack made by the Isle of Man.

    427. I would remind you of the Irishman who stated before the rising we will never gain our freedom by writing letters and some are even afraid to put their names to them ???

    428. Tinto Chiel says:

      “You don’t trust the political establishment in Scotland or in Britain and that’s lesson number one.”

      Willie MacRae’s words ring just as true today as during the Mullwharchar inquiry.

      For younger readers who might not know who he is:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyjn1HEJ10

      It’s a sad reflection on today’s “meeja” that a wee documentary like this would probably never be made today.

    429. As for tanks all you need is anti tank missiles or for planes ground to air missiles no need for tank crews or guards to protect the tanks or planes common senense to me

    430. Oneliner says:

      @Richard

      Doris Johnson does not want to be the Prime Minister in office when the Union breaks up.

      Either that or there’s a paternity suit in the offing.

      Or both.

    431. Jim Forsyth says:

      Blair Paterson 5.59pm

      Regards the disappearing english Tanks, it is just more proof of the shrinking english Empire and all her assets.

      It just leaves the Colony of Scotland to set herself Free.

      Once we develop the ability to Grow a Pair, we will be off on our own, just like India, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and all the others who decided to leave the Empire.

    432. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I won’t post a link here because it could make this site a target for some extremely unwelcome attention but if you search ‘plandemic’ you’ll get page after page of warnings not to go anywhere near a newly-released film of that name because it’s chock-a-block with discredited conspiracy theorists.

      The reason why you’ll get the same dire warnings (often identically worded) even if you go to so-called ‘fact-checking’ sites, is explained in the film – another splendid reason to make sure that as few people as possible actually see it. (Spoiler – Google, the fact-checking sites, Wikipedia and all the rest of them are owned by the same interests who stand to profit from the ‘pandemic’ narrative.)

      That’s why I was goading CamB with this earlier in the thread – he, along with many others on this site, was sent a link to ‘Plandemic Pt 1′ which focused on virologist Judy Mikovitz. He dismissed it out of hand. He was also sent a link to the Rockefeller Foundations’ 2010 ‘Scenarios’ report, with a specific direction to the ‘Lockstep’ chapter. Again, the material was dismissed. It can be found here: https://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller%20Foundation.pdf

      The ‘plandemic’ film (ie the one I won’t link to) refers directly to the Rockefeller document at 38mins.

      The reason I’m citing Cameron in this comment is because he’s been front and centre of those swatting away concerns about the bigger picture behind this pandemic. Anyone even attempting to raise questions has been shouted down whilst making no effort whatsoever to tackle the substance of the critics’ observations. Even the Swiss Propaganda Research site, to which several of us referred in the early weeks of lockdown, was rubbished by CamB and others, thus deterring other readers from a potentially valuable source of non-msm data.

      So I’m curious to see how CamB and others will react to this comment. NB: I have no intention of following this up with a link to the film or anything else bug-related. You can do your own searching and make up your own mind about the contents.

    433. James F. McIntosh says:

      So if Craig does get a jail sentence can he get his moneys worth and name all the alphabet woman without incurring a longer sentence?

    434. Jim Forsyth says:

      O/T

      English football captain just been found guilty in Greece of serious disorder charges.

      This is similar to the English cricket captain who was also charged with serious public disorder offences.

      Typical english arrogance, thinking they can do as they please and get away with it.

    435. Skip_NC says:

      Michael Laing, that is an interesting link. I wonder if their inclusiveness runs to having wheelchair-accessible toilets? Just a thought.

    436. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      You don’t understand science, ethics, or the law, that’s your problem.

    437. Mac says:

      Two days and still my post is in moderation. Fuck wasting a minute on here putting a post together.

    438. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Covid related: It will be interesting to see how this cluster in Coupar Angus plays out. As of yesterday testing established there were 152 confirmed covid cases.
      It goes without saying I wish the best for all those who have contracted it, but it should give a good opportunity to show us how serious this virus is across the affected demographic.
      If there have been hunners of cases with few if any deaths it makes you wonder…

    439. Doug says:

      Just received the T-shirt I ordered with the Saltire and the word Independence printed immediately below. It will go along nicely with my T-shirt with a picture of the Declaration of Abroath and Independence written underneath, my Independence car posters and my Independence house-window sticker.

      Always interesting to see the reactions of others in the shops, car parks, etc.

      A simple and effective device to keep independence in the minds of people in Scotland. Spread the word, and be proud about it.

    440. jfngw says:

      @Jim Forsyth

      Using my Ouija board, it went W-A-L-T-E-R, then J-I-M-M-Y

      What does it mean?

    441. CameronB Brodie says:

      It isn’t a crime to lack trust in science but it does make maintaining democracy kind of difficult.

      Building trust while influencing online COVID-19 content in the social media world
      https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30084-4/fulltext

    442. Jim Forsyth says:

      CamB

      If I copied and pasted the inner workings of a Nuclear bomb night after night, would I then qualify as a Professor of Physics???

      On the funny side,, I do get a laugh at your dogged persistence.

      You shall not be moved.

      Rock on Cammy!!!

    443. frogesque says:

      72 days tanty being reported for Manny Singh.

      Is there an appeal in the offing and a crowdfunder. I was on that march and there was absolutely no trouble other than Manky Jaiket mouthing off.

    444. Robert Graham says:

      o/t
      Apologies not a one

      Just watched a remake of the Patronising Better together woman ” U/Tube UK corporate media Debunker ”

      This was played endlessly during September 2014 Ref and has now been brought up to date ( i.e. ) What really was the outcome for those who voted NO if this doesn’t get you angry nothing will .

      Anyone actually come across anyone who admits voting ” NO ” I would have thought they would have been over the moon instead of making sure it no one found out was their fault .

      Heads up Independence Live just now

      Join in

    445. Jim Forsyth says:

      The top management of Police Scotland seem to have developed these funny non-Scots accents.

      The new choice of accents seems to be english or Northern Irish.

    446. Jim Forsyth says:

      Sturgeon filling the top Police jobs in Scotland with Unionists.

    447. jfngw says:

      @ian brotherhood

      Because it’s easy to be the one supporting it being a grand hoax when you have no responsibility, if you are wrong then you can just shrug your shoulders and carry on. That’s not the case for any government if the deaths end up anywhere near the predictions, they would be culpable of negligence, have to answer for these deaths and why they did nothing to stop them.

      Would you be as confident if the responsibility was sitting on your shoulders?

    448. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jim Forsyth
      It would be kind of daft if I kept this stuff to myself, as it is kind of relevant and some may even benefit from a critical perspective into public health management and stuff.

      Disinformation, Misinformation and Inequality-Driven Mistrust in the Time of COVID-19: Lessons Unlearned from AIDS Denialism
      https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/pmc7241063?javascript_support=no

    449. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Roseanne Cunningham, Alex Neil, Joane Freeman, Mike Russell etc standing down, prior to the 2021 Holyrood election.

      Is nobody within the SNP familiar with the Hansen Doctrine: “You win nothing with kids?”

      Scotland’s leaders have always been good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory – I am beginning to fear Wee Nippy and Her Harridans are about to repeat the trick.

    450. Beaker says:

      @frogesque says:
      25 August, 2020 at 7:07 pm
      “72 days tanty being reported for Manny Singh.
      Is there an appeal in the offing and a crowdfunder. I was on that march and there was absolutely no trouble other than Manky Jaiket mouthing off.”

      Try reading the whole story ffs. He wouldn’t listen to the Council – Glasgow City Council. He didn’t apply for road closures. The march was held on a Saturday, and the police were worried about congestion in the city centre. He then failed to comply with a curfew.

      AUOB marches can be highly effective as long as the organisers stick to the rule of law. Sticking two fingers up at the law is not the way to proceed.

      Start to allow non-compliance and the next thing you know the marches will end up being banned, with all the wonderful publicity that will generate.

    451. Skip_NC says:

      Beaker, do you think a custodial sentence, or even the home detention proposed was an appropriate sanction? I assume there is a difference between an appeal against conviction and an appeal against the sentence.

    452. I think with the mass retirements coupled with the signed letter from the MP’s designed to apply pressure to revoke the NEC decision are the beginnings of an uprising against the leadership.

      Salmond to strike the lethal blow; that would be poetic justice.

    453. Breeks says:

      To quote Mark Hirst on Twitter…

      “ Scottish Government’s Head of Cabinet, Parliament and Governance Division has told Holyrood Inquiry that the “commission” of retrospective complaints procedure, later deemed “unlawful” by Court of Session, was instigated by Nicola Sturgeon and Permanent Secretary.”

      So, if I’m understanding the chronology and events correctly, Sturgeon and Evans, on their own initiative and contrary to senior Civil Service advice, instigated a complaint protocol which could be backdated retrospectively to purposefully ensnare Alex Salmond, and then shared these “bespoke” retrospective protocols with the prospective conspirators who then dutifully filled in appropriate complaints? (Or can I say ‘fabricated’ complaints because the Court found them to be false?)

      Can anybody confirm or deny that I’ve got that straight? It sounds incredible.

    454. schrodingers cat says:

      didnt manny singh fall out with AUOB?

      anyone know why?

    455. highseastim says:

      So rates MacSporran @ 7.37pm :- The four SNP politicians you mention that are standing down/retiring are just that, past the retirement age and deserve an easier later life!! Would you rather see them turn like the unionists and seek a place in the Lords so they can still cling like leeches to the taxpayers purse!!

    456. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Breeks

      That about sums it up.

    457. Papko says:

      @Socrates
      “Scotland’s leaders have always been good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory – I am beginning to fear Wee Nippy and Her Harridans are about to repeat the trick.”

      You are definitely getting wiser, very prescient.

      I can]t be the only one who who cringes when Scotland only needs a draw against Luxembourg to qualify.

      It’s in our national psyche to celebrate before the game and whimper away ignominiously after it.

    458. Big Jock says:

      Papko . It seems the way of things.

      We have the perfect storm. Yet somehow Scotland lose to Peru, again!

    459. Sensibledave says:

      Jim Forsyth 6.35

      .. steady on with stereotyping of the people of a particular country Jimmy. There is a name for people that do that.

      …. particularly when the last umpteen threads here on Wings have been about Scots behaving badly … and criminally, if I were take the word of many btl posters.

    460. Craig Murray says:

      I am genuinely stunned – I mean it, quite deeply shocked – by the Sturgeon loyalists lining up to say Manni deserves 70 days in prison for starting a demonstration two hours late.

      The SNP on Glasgow Council deliberately moved the start time forward to 11am to stop people getting there from all over Scotland.

      Beaker doubtless you think AUOB marches should be held at 4am on a Sunday so they don’t inconvenience anyone. Doubtless you think that the Catalan Independence marches were wrong to take over Barcelona.

      If you don’t believe in campaigning for Scotland’s freedom, what the fuck are you doing here?

    461. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for those who perhaps think my point of view is either conformist, or an interesting alternative. I don’t think I can be both at the same time, though I am conforming with my training, Which is nice, 🙂

      Ethics & Global Politics Vol. 8, No. 1, 2015, pp. 1-20
      A sense of self-suspicion: global legal
      pluralism and the claim to legal
      authority

      Abstract
      Legal pluralism has become common currency in many contemporary debates on law and globalization. Its main claim is that a form of global legal pluralism represents both the most accurate description of law in times of globalization and the best normative option. On the descriptive level, global legal pluralism is considered more reliable than state-based accounts. On the normative level, global legal pluralism is understood as a possibility to open up the legal realm to previously unheard voices.

      This article assesses these claims against the background of classic legal-pluralist scholarship. After reconstructing the emergence of global legal pluralism and then examining its epistemic and normative versions, the last two sections identify the shortcoming of this approach by underlining the absence of what the authors call ‘a sense of self-suspicion’ in drawing the map of legalities in the global sphere. The main argument put forward is that global legal pluralism is oblivious of a few key insights offered by the founding fathers of classic legal pluralism.

      Keywords:
      legal pluralism; global administrative law; liberal political theory; legal authority; symbolic power

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/egp.v8.26343

    462. Stoker says:

      A couple of unrelated comments from another WOS btl thread very much worth repeating for those who missed them first time:

      The first one from Craig Murray on 22 August, 2020 at 10:21 pm

      “Yes. It was Liz Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon’s Chief of Staff. Who, interestingly enough, once went on a US State Department (ie CIA) funded programme in Washington DC alongside a certain David Clegg of the Daily Record – who published the leak.”
      __________

      And the second from ElGordo on 21 August, 2020 at 6:24 pm
      ‘@kapelmeister says: so Johnson is in Strathcarron.’

      “Possibly was briefly for a daily mail photo op, (after returning from celebrating his fathers 80th in Greece on Tuesday), the old school house is a handy enough location with the MOD base, helipad & dock just 2 miles down the road.”

      I’ve had similar thoughts, reinforced by seeing the tent he apparently was using for himself, partner & child. Not even Bozo would take a child that young camping in that sort of tent. This whole “camping” malarkey is bullsh!t, utter bullshit. The whole stunt was just that, a staged deflection stunt.

    463. stuart mctavish says:

      @Breeks

      Setting aside the possibly intriguing metadata on the FOI/17/02841 linked to above, and my observation that Annex A was undated when it is actually dated September 2010, Attachment 5 to the document bundle might shed some light on the matter:

      Scottish Government – Partnership Board, 23 November 2009

      Note of Meeting

      Agenda Item 6 : Fairness at Work (F@W)

      ..redacted.. referred to a history of alleged bad behaviour by Ministers in the former Scottish Office/ Scottish Executive and now Scottish Government. There had been recent communications about a proposed procedure under the new SG Main Fairness at Work (F@W) policy for handling complaints about alleged treatment of staff by Scottish Ministers. Redacted.. confirmed the unions consider the first outline proposals provided by Human Resources (HR) as unacceptable…, etc.

    464. CameronB Brodie says:

      British constitutionalism obtained its legal legitimacy through a respect for the legal equality of Scottish and English cultures. It did so by articulating Natural Law through the Common Law. This meant the constitution enabled a cultural dialogue between Scotland and England.

      This is no longer the case (see Berxit), so British constitutionalism can no longer be considered legally legitimate. Remember, national law is subordinate to international law, and can’t be used legally to remove our EU rights. That’s if you respect the international legal order that is.

      Rethinking constitutional ordering in an
      era of legal and ideological pluralism

      We live in an increasingly pluralistic legal and ideological universe. Nation-state legal regimes are currently supplemented by numerous transnational and global orders that defy any workable hierarchy or cogent unity. As a consequence, the various applicable legal regimes are often inconsistent with one another and even, at times, mutually contradictory.

      This problem is compounded by the proliferation of competing ideologies and by the increasing rifts among them. This makes it seemingly impossible to reconcile all the legal norms to which one is subject or to harmonize the prevailing plurality of legal regimes within the confines of a commonly shared ideology.

      Based on an analysis of contemporary legal and philosophical pluralism and of the convergences among the two, the article argues that it is possible to reconcile legal and ideological pluralism by abandoning hierarchy and countenancing inconsistencies falling short of incompatibilities in a highly layered and segmented legal universe.

      https://www.eui.eu/Documents/DepartmentsCentres/AcademyofEuropeanLaw/CourseMaterialsHR/HR2009/DeWet/DeWetBackgroundReading5.pdf

    465. Papko says:

      @Big Jock
      “We have the perfect storm. Yet somehow Scotland lose to Peru, again!”

      I did not want to mention Peru.

      Ally MacLeod was never the same again, and neither was Scottish Football.
      Going to a World Cup as one of the best teams, was euphoric.
      Yet the aftermath…

    466. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Ian Brotherhood says:

      The reason I’m citing Cameron in this comment…’

      You actually READ something that that…eh…whatever (s)he is POSTED? That actually made me laugh out loud. That person(s?) is the weirdest person I have ever seen in a comments section. No matter how esoteric the subject: melon flinging in Latvia, the cultural impact of 80s breakdance films in Eastern Europe in 1986-1987, how to shave your balls with sharpened plastic without self-castration – CBB is right there with a raft of random obscure sites, pretending to have known all aboot the subject for years, like some omnipotent keyboard warrior void sage. I find it utterly hilarious. Fire on one and all! :p

    467. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Papko

      I prefer to remember the 3 two win over Holland. And the Archie Gemmell goal probably my favourite Scottish goal of all time.

    468. CameronB Brodie says:

      WhoRattledYourCage
      Is that you having a pop at critical approaches to social, educational, and legal theories?

      Global Legal Pluralism as a Normative Project
      https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2658&context=faculty_publications

    469. Daisy Walker says:

      Deeply shocked (but not surprised, sadly) about the 72 days handed down to Manny Singh.

      At most the court should have issued a fine.

      A peaceful march!

      They have more Policing issues on a routine OO march.

      Another line crossed.

      Craig Murray, have just read your latest updates on your blog. I think you have extremely good lawyers. Very best wishes for you.

      And my oh my, isn’t that a quiet little nugget, them admitting to the existence of the documents you requested.

      Once again, another line crossed by those in power.

      With regards the splits between the Indy movement and the SNP management, It is one thing to disagree passionately about the best tactics for reaching Indy, and completely another to sabotage those we disagree with, by fair means and foul.

      But when it comes to misusing the instruments of justice in order to dispense that foulness, people of good conscience really have to have a look at themselves, and then find their courage.

      Very, very significant lines crossed, and way beyond the ‘should Nicola be doing more, does she have a plan A, will Boris keep saying ‘no’ (yes he will), will GRA make the SNP haemorrhage votes (yes it will, when the time comes).

      If the above dirty tricks were being perpetrated by the Tories, or Labour? What would nearly all Indy supporters be doing and saying?

      Since the above Unionist tactics go beyond the pale, and show their hand – some comfort from the belief that they must be bricking it to be so obvious.

      What did Wings used to have as a motto, a Ghandi quote I think, ‘first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then we win.’ They don’t seem to be laughing any more, do they.

      And, lastly, for tonight at any rate… just for Smallaxe, a wee song.

      We can do so much better than Boris, and there’s such a lot that we can do
      We can do so much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, the Unions through

      Sooooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, the Unions through
      Sooooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, Believe in You

      We can do so much better than Boris, We’ve had enough of Eton’s Mess
      Little England votes and she don’t vote for Us
      It’s England first and then Screw the rest

      Soooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, the Unions through
      Soooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, Believe in You

      We can do so much better than Boris, There’s such a lot that we can do,
      We can do so much better than Boris, Even the English know its true

      Soooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, the Unions through
      Soooo much better than Boris, Believe in Scotland, Believe in You.

      Rest in Peace Smallaxe, and in a Gentle way we shall shake this world.

    470. K1 says:

      So NS didn’t insist on including former ministers retrospectively in the changing of personnel policies in October 2017, is this not a fundamental assertion by both wings and Craig Murray and many many others, that it was NS and/or Lesley Evans (stitchup) who insisted in including former ministers against UKgov advice to do so? Happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood this one wee aspect…as it seems at odds with what is now being revealed.

      ‘Top Scottish civil servant: my choice to include ex-ministers in anti-harassment policy’

      ‘Hynd said that decision was not made by the first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, or by Leslie Evans, Scotland’s chief civil servant, who asked him to draw up a new policy on sexual harassment covering serving ministers on 31 October 2017.

      He insisted he alone decided to make former ministers the focus of his first draft of the policy, partly because he was in charge of the Scottish government’s ministerial code. He said he thought it was a “gap” that needed to be closed.’

      https://archive.is/Mtkhr

    471. kapelmeister says:

      With all the experienced and, one assumes, disenchanted SNP MSPs standing down from Holyrood, the young,fit troops of the Sturgeon Woke Parachute Battalion must be on standby to be dropped in to those constituencies.

    472. Tannadice Boy says:

      @K1
      Surely that would be the responsibility of the Inquiry to establish after hearing all of the witness statements. Might as well send the Inquiry panel home if the conclusions have already been reached. Or has the referee blown the full time whistle after 10 minutes?

    473. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Big JOck

      I see you mentioned Peru – that shambles, I have now got over.

      HOWEVER

      Under no circumstances, should you EVER mention Iran.

    474. kapelmeister says:

      Socrates

      Is it OK to mention Costa Rica?

    475. call me dave says:

      This morning as Boris was on the news saying ‘no masks in schools’… hmm….err but we might do it if required.
      I said to my better half give it a couple of days.

      Tonight:

      Boris says masks to be worn in England in the schools within a ‘lockdown area’ in corridors and communal areas.

      PS:
      Gavin Williamson ‘Education’ bleating there on the big auntie radio news about he wasn’t to blame for the exam results algorithm. Not resigning!

      PPS:
      Thanks for the Archie Gemmill memory prompt:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJTBrbPIHQ

    476. Beaker says:

      @Craig Murray says:
      25 August, 2020 at 8:34 pm
      Beaker doubtless you think AUOB marches should be held at 4am on a “Sunday so they don’t inconvenience anyone. Doubtless you think that the Catalan Independence marches were wrong to take over Barcelona.

      If you don’t believe in campaigning for Scotland’s freedom, what the fuck are you doing here?”

      Jesus Christ stop making fucking assumptions. I never said I agree with the sentence or with marches starting at stupid fucking o’clock.

      When a movement’s organiser decides to start taking the LAW into it’s own hands then that’s when real trouble begins. The AUOB marches are about order and peaceful protest. Now the media has a hook.

      The march was not being banned. But there are rules and regs that must be followed if you want them to continue, whether or not they are fair. It’s fuck all to do with inconvenience. What’s happened now gives GCC the option to lay draconian conditions on marches, and I bet they will.

    477. Socrates MacSporran says:

      highseastim@ 8.12pm

      No way would I want our senior politicians going to the House of Lords, but, within certain tight parameteres, I could live with a senate-type second chamber in the parliament of an Independent Scotland.

      However, if we are as-close to Independence as I hope we are, and if the SNP gets its expected majority in May next year, I would prefer to see the retirees still inside the chamber, helping us across the line and into the new Scotland.

      They could then, job done, stand down and like younger politicians take us forward.

      Scotland has a poor record in not getting team changes correct, with experienced men discarded before their replacements are ready.

    478. Dan says:

      @kapelmeister

      It’s not all bad as there are good local folk putting themselves up for selection.
      Is it too early to bring back the “Jim’ll Fix It” slogan? 🙂

      https://twitter.com/JimFairlieLogie/status/1298348402749640713

    479. kapelmeister says:

      Dan @10:27 pm

      He is articulate and impressive. Hope he’s in the new parliament.

    480. Big Jock says:

      I still think Davie Narey’s ” Toe Poke”. Was the best Scotland goal ever.

      It was against the Samba boys and we went 1-0 up. I still remember the look of shock on my dad’s face. As if to say , am I dreaming.

      Alan Rough said that it was like waking an angry wasp. Zico and his crew then routed Scotland.

      But the moment that goal went in when I was a 12 year old boy will always be special.

    481. Breeks says:

      K1 says:
      25 August, 2020 at 9:56 pm
      So NS didn’t insist on including former ministers retrospectively in the changing of personnel policies in October 2017, is this not a fundamental assertion by both wings and Craig Murray and many many others, that it was NS and/or Lesley Evans (stitchup) who insisted in including former ministers against UKgov advice to do so? Happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood this one wee aspect….

      Not disputing that is what Severin Carol in the Guardian is saying K1, but Mark Hirst is expressly contradicting that on Twitter. He seems adamant about it too.


      “ Did you actually hear the evidence today? Hynd makes clear the procedure was “commissioned” by FM and Perm Sec on 31st Oct. Read the Official Report tomorrow. FM later insists has to be “retrospective”. Hynd already doing that following his “discussions”

      https://twitter.com/Documark/status/1298204556812267520

    482. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Big Jock
      Dave Narey the best Dundee United player I have ever watched. I almost said his goal but the painful 4 one defeat had to be factored in. Great memories though.

    483. holymacmoses says:

      How exactly can a Government legislate against ‘former ministers’ in an affair which is purely criminal.
      The Government cannot hold meaningful inquiries, suspend, sack, ask to leave etc any person who is no longer in their employ . The whole thing is farcical from start to finish.

      ‘Criminal behaviour’ belongs to a criminal court and is NOT in the remit of Nicola Sturgeon.
      How much money are we paying this troop of monkeys and their tea party?

      It is worth listening to the whole of what Hynd says. A squirmier worm you will have difficulty finding.

      Nicola Sturgeon should leave because she’s fundamentally stupid

    484. robbo says:

      Lmao

      It’s the way you tell them Lord McConnell

      https://twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/1298272346424242178

    485. Cath says:

      So, if I’m understanding the chronology and events correctly, Sturgeon and Evans, on their own initiative and contrary to senior Civil Service advice, instigated a complaint protocol which could be backdated retrospectively to purposefully ensnare Alex Salmond

      I seem to recall round about the time of the MeToo movement, there was a lot of talk about a very senior Labour Minister (possibly FM), with MSPs talking about his predatory behaviour but not giving a name. It was apparently an open secret in Holyrood though. So it’s quite possible Nicola was duped into setting up something sold to her on the premises it was ‘clearing up the toxic male culture’ and must include past ministers because of that person, probably among others.

    486. ElGordo says:

      Beyond The Pale..

      Probably about time to drop this phrase, along with referring to Ireland as Eire, if you haven’t already.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

    487. Breastplate says:

      Beaker,
      I think Craig is rightfully resentful of people who use the “but they broke the lawl” pish.
      It used to be against the law to celebrate Christmas, it used to be lawful to keep people as slaves it’s still against the law in some countries to be gay.

      So I believe Craig thinks you’re a grade A prick for wanting somebody locked up for organising an independence march because “they broke the law”.

      I think Craig might be right.

    488. robbo says:

      What i find shocking in this whole so saga re Alex Salmond is how that program aired found it acceptable to keep this clip in even after Alex was found NOT guilty months before. This British Bullshit Corporation seem to think their a law unto themselves .

      Bloody shocking bias- unrinsed and repeated,shocking.

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1295463214143217664

    489. Breastplate says:

      Cath,
      What are the odds that nobody else will be ensnared and that the police won’t have spent £millions interviewing a plethora of females looking for evidence against this former Labour minister?

      Of course, I could be wrong and his arrest is imminent….yep, any minute now…

    490. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Mannie Singh didn’t follow the rules, set by precedence at previous marches.

      Found guilty, he was offered 72 days curfew 6pm to 6am, which he rejected. That ‘punishment’ was replaced with 72 days in jail.

      Is he trying to be seen as a martyr?

    491. ElGordo says:

      Just get the jocks fighting with each other again, they love a good fight. Can’t help themselves. Eventually they’ll look for a referee, then when one loses, support.

    492. Breastplate says:

      Bdtt,
      Are you saying he deserves to be jailed for 72 days?

    493. ElGordo says:

      Alas the things that will make us a good country prevent us ever getting there.



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