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The second opinion

Posted on August 22, 2020 by

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    1. 22 08 20 08:56

      The second opinion | speymouth

    148 to “The second opinion”

    1. defo says:

      Up early this morning Holiday boy!
      A “nasty piece of Wark” indeed.
      Lovely work CC.

    2. kapelmeister says:

      VAR standing for Very Arrogant Rotter.

    3. kapelmeister says:

      Who has the more difficult job at the moment? Kirsty Wark’s lawyer or Kirsty Wark’s hairdresser?

    4. A C Bruce says:

      Beautifully drawn, great likenesses.

      A biting comment on a nasty, hateful programme and its makers.

    5. Neil Mackenzie says:

      I hate football and I hate that I had to look that up.

    6. Marie Clark says:

      Ouch Chris, pencil sharper than ever after your holiday. Hammer, nail, whack.

      Doffs bunnet to you.

    7. Andrew says:

      This is one of your best cartoons ever I think. Really excellent work!

    8. jimnarlene says:

      Nailed it.

    9. Effijy says:


      I thought the letters VAR where the letters of the next
      Batch of women conjured up to try smear Alex?

      Although I can’t stand Warkedness herself the BBC are
      The main propagator of anti Scottish propaganda.

    10. Effijy says:

      Over £150,000 for Mark now!

      Our Sovereignty is about to be reconfirmed or at
      Worst further blatant evidence that the law doesn’t
      Apply to Scotland when it suits Westminster.

    11. ScottieDog says:


    12. winifred mccartney says:

      Fabulous cartoon – why bother with courts at all just let Wark, Smith and Garavelli decide.

      The bbc’s defence of the programme was almost worse than the programme itself if that is possible.

    13. bobajock says:

      Words failed me when I saw this TV ‘item’ – I have failed to give it a type.

      Witch Trial.

    14. Almannysbunnet says:

      Brilliant cartoon but who is the third V. A. R. woman, we know two of them, Kirsty and Sarah. 🙂

    15. Socrates MacSporran says:

      As an Argentinian or Brazilian commentator might say: GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!

      Nice to have you back and on-form Mr Cairns. Back of the net, you nailed that one.

    16. OldPete says:

      Just brilliant.

    17. Breeks says:

      I can’t think of any movement, throughout all history, which has had a better cartoonist than we’ve got.

      I don’t know how he does it. Must carry some felt tips in his golfing bag. 😉

    18. Astonished says:


      “Nasty piece of Wark” is also excellent. I think the coffee shop coven are beginning to see how much they are loathed.

      P.S. just for this I think you deserve a holiday !

    19. The Isolator says:

      An absolute stoater. ..get in there!

    20. Oneliner says:


      Coffee and crumpled scones.

    21. Bob Mack says:


      One might even say. “Own goooooooaaalll”

    22. Alison Ross says:

      Brilliant stuff!

    23. it'scominyet says:

      Is that Muriel Gray in the middle?

    24. Meg merrilees says:

      Great cartoon Chris- spot on! Sums it all up perfectly.
      Reading on the papyrus this morning that the farmer who owns the field where Boris’ tent was Put is furious because he wasn’t asked for permission. It is not part of the garden of the rented house. And they had been climbing over the fence for access- too lazy to use the gate further up. Plus the tent had only appeared that morning, the first he knew about it was when the photo was published.
      Now it seems Boris is scared that he’ll be mobbed by angry Nats( not midgies) and is furious that his cover is blown. They’ve had to move on in case a sniper turns up in Applecross and takes aim.

    25. dramfineday says:

      Excellent Chris, first class and Kirsty with a “whisky” nose too. She’ll no be happy, hahaha.

    26. Scozzie says:

      Does VAR stands for Very Angry Roasters!!!!

    27. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Remember, Wark was raised in one of the “best” streets in Kilmarnock. Back when she was wee, the clever kids in Killie went to Kilmarnock Academy, and were given an education as good as any in Scotland.

      Kilmarnock Academy is the only school in Scotland to have produced two Nobel Prize-winners (the same number as Eton). So, the fact Wark didn’t go there, but went instead to Wellingston School in Ayr, tells you something.

      Wellington, back then, was an all-girls school, dedicated to turning out young gels, suitable as marriage partners for Ayrshire’s County set, farmers and professionals.

      To be fair to Wark, she was one of the few Wellington girls of her time to go on to university.

      She was never top-drawer, and certainly not as a journalist, but, has the private-school educated ability to network and climb the greasy pole.

    28. callmedave says:

      Brilliant. 🙂

      You’ve distilled the whole essence of the thing there with a few deft strokes of the pen.

      BBC shortbread radio and Shereen was on in the car when I came out the shops but missed the first 10 minutes. 🙁

      Shurely she must have mentioned AS and some letters of the alphabet…maybe…possibly…eh?

      Ach I’ll listen to the early bit in when it’s posted.

    29. One_Scot says:

      Lol, just contributed to the “Peoples Action on Section 30” at £153,238 and then went to check the total and found that it is now over the target. 🙂

    30. kapelmeister says:

      So George Galloway wants to give an indyref vote to, say, a Scots born retired millionaire businessman living in Tunbridge Wells, who hasn’t resided in Scotland for, let’s say 50 years, and who has no intention of ever returning to Scotland.

      Galloway wants to give that millionaire a vote to keep Scotland at the mercy of Boris Johnson.

      But then freedom for small countries generally runs counter to George’s weltanshaung. He did publicly say that Kuwait rightfully belonged to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. So he must be happy with the idea that Scotland belongs to Dominic Cummings’ England.

    31. leither says:

      one of the options for the judge in the s30 crowdfunded case rarely mentioned is

      “not our job to pronounce on political matters”


      breakfast at tiffany’s for both defence and prosecution lawyers

    32. Effijy says:

      Brilliant news that Martin has reached his CrowdJustice target of £155K.
      Only a refusal to keep the law and apply it by England’s corrupt courts and
      Westminster can deny Scotland’s Sovereignty!

    33. Ottomanboi says:

      The shadow spokesperson for Scotland is.,_Baron_Davidson_of_Glen_Clova
      I leave the reader to join up the dots.

    34. Dorothy Devine says:

      it’scominyet, either that or Oor Wullie.

      Excellent cartoon Chris!

    35. Contrary says:

      A depressingly accurate cartoon!

      Wow, I see the s.30 case has reached its £155k target – Someone contributed a walloping £2000 this morning, well done Someone! So that’s it paid for,,,

    36. willie says:

      Can’t but help think that it may soon be Mrs Kirsten Anne Clements and her husband who may soon be having to defend themselves against court action.

      The programme, was as we all realise was an utter disgrace. But the legal ramifications from broadcast are multi-facetted.

      Consider for example the voices of actors repeating or allegedly repeating allegations about the conduct of Alec Salmond. Who briefed or coached the actors in their delivery.

      Or what of the aspect of a state broadcaster breaking its charter of impartiality by smearing an individual and breaching his human rights.

      Or what of the impacts of the Clements breaching a court order in potentially identifying one of the ” alphabet” individuals in a programme that was broadcast to a huge audience. What impact for the individuals and what impact on the trial of Craig Murray.

      Ah the British Bias Corporation. They may have set out to smear Alec Salmond but their effort by this programme may well now have opened up new civil and criminal legal fronts.

      And as for the vicious Kirsten Anne Clements ( nee Wark ) Wark and her husband I suspect they will now be thumbing their insurances for legal cover.

      Well done Mrs Kirsen Anne Clements (nee Wark), well done indeed!

    37. Ottomanboi says:

      A wee bit of history with Davidson connexions.
      What do you call people like this?
      My Chinese dictionary is not short of appropriate terms.

    38. Contrary says:

      Ive tried (and failed) to link to a video by David Allen Green on judicial reviews on a previous thread so hope this works now – it’s on English/Welsh law and to do with the English government trying to limit its scope – but he clearly explains what judicial review is, what its purpose is, how it is used, and those same principles still stand in Scotland (though the detail maybe not). I think it’s useful for understanding what the limitations are for the s.30 case and how it differs from other kinds of court procedings. It’s less than 10 minutes,

      That the English government wants to limit our scope for questioning it, is another matter altogether.

    39. dakk says:

      Nice one Chris.

      Will re-watch the Jackie Baillie leading an eager compliant Lasley Evans clip again tonight.

      We’ve seen the fitting up of Alex Salmond.

      So might as well watch the fitting up of Nicola Sturgeon too.

    40. Ottomanboi says:

      Westminster granting a second independence ref., a plebiscite to effectively provoke the dismemberment of the British state, would be like expecting the turkey to vote for Christmas.
      Johnson is no turkey, he’s an authentic British nationalist. When the SNP leader has problems with such terminology when applied to Scotland how ‘authentic’ is the thing itself.
      For some enlightenment on that matter I refer you to-
      Scotland may be old but in national struggle terms a new kid on the block.
      It has also turned its back on the intellectual nationalist roots, Erskine of Marr, Cunningham Graham, MacDiarmid, Mackenzie etc. The subfuscous dullness of the official ‘bread and butter’ movement has the allure of cauld kale.
      At least Wings, may the Rev live a thousand years, injects some verve into the proceedings.

    41. Bob W says:


      Link archived

    42. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Wullie @ 12.02pm:

      Mr and Mrs Clements are both part of what is known as “the Hidden Establishment,” they are therefore protected.

      No way will the Edinburgh legal establishment seek to punish them.

      The likes of Alex Salmond, Craig Murray and Michael? Hart are not part of “The Establishment,” (Legal, official or hidden), so, they do not have the protection from prosecution enjoyed by others.

    43. Willie says:

      And to change the topic of conversation if I may, I just came across this video of our erstwhile political prostitute George Galloway who has just hove into the horizon as an uber establishment unionist.

      Absolutely incredible but I hadn’t realised that George Galloway had whooped, swooned, saluted, and had hugged and kissed no lesser another unionist stalwart in the name of Sir Jimmy Saville.

      And with Michael Barrymore looking on smiling, it maybe telly you a lot about Mr Galloway. Anyway, off topic I know, but Galloway is part of the shit show just like Wark.

    44. kapelmeister says:

      Socrates MacSporran

      Wark is surely “the Midden Establishment”, although no doubt protected as you say.

    45. kapelmeister says:

      Willie @1:20

      Yes, Galloway did look enormously pleased to meet fellow cigar smoker Saville.

    46. Willie says:

      Good Afternoon Mr MacSporran @1.18.

      Couldn’t agree more with you about Wark being part of the protected establishment. Undoubtedly she and her ilk are. But their protection is not absolute, and they can be made vulnerable. And if she didn’t know that before, I think she will maybe know it now.

      These people are a lot more vulnerable than they think. Maybe she will find that out.

    47. robertknight says:


      Odious little man would sell his granny for a saucer of milk and a tummy rub.

      Keep your garlic and silver cross at the ready if you see him out on the stump.

    48. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Chris Cairns.

      Excellent! Right on the button! Are we ever gonna see you in the MSM?
      Hi peeps.

      RE: The Martin J. Keatings S30 action:-

    49. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, it’s not just those who support Scottish independence who are legally undermined by the UK’s constitutional arrangements, and the ‘particularities’ of the Scotland’s judicial system’s political legal practice.

      Westminster’s refusal to respect Scotland’s constitutional identity, harms all those living in Scotland. Brexit is clear evidence that British constitutionalism has total disregard for the economic, social, and cultural rights of all those living in Scotland. As does Scotland’s judicial system, apparently. That’s no way to run a liberal democracy, which Brexitania certainly isn’t.

      If Scotland’s journalists weren’t predominantly ignorant of the law and writing for prejudiced and reactionary editors, the Scottish public might have twigged to this a lot sooner.

      The Justicability of Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights in Domestic Law

    50. robertknight says:

      Roseanna Cunningham MSP not standing for HR 2021.

    51. Mungo Armstrong says:

      Hi Rev. Might want to have a wee look at my question to and response from Scottish Skier on scotgoespop regarding your thoughts on why Boris Johnson won’t give a section 30 order?

    52. Josef Ó Luain says:

      When it takes the dumbest Scottish Tory of them all, Murdo, the unelected and unelectable, Fraser, to ask, Lesley Evans, a question that independence seeking people want an answer to, it seems safe to assume that we’ve entered a most unpredictable, more farcical stage of the struggle.

    53. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi willie at 12:02 pm.

      You typed,
      “Or what of the impacts of the Clements breaching a court order in potentially identifying one of the ” alphabet” individuals in a programme that was broadcast to a huge audience. What impact for the individuals and what impact on the trial of Craig Murray.”

      When the “edited” version of Monday’s programme was reuploaded to iPlayer, what I did was play the original version and the new version side by side, in synchronisation.

      I fully expected to hear a jump in the audio at around 45m15s (Day 8), where Wark said,
      “When Salmond’s former chief of staff Geoff Aberdein took the stand he added fuel to the political firestorm. He stated he’d met Nicola Sturgeon and one of the women on the 29th March 2018.”

      This segment compounds the contempt of ‘the Garavelli group’. in that it provides sufficient “jigsaw’ info to do a Google search.

      However, that segment at 45m15s remains in the edited version. As I typed previously, the only change I have detected is the addition of a caption “Actor’s voice” where it didn’t appear in the original.

    54. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And this one…

    55. Robert Graham says:

      After reading about the attempted brick wall being built to hinder any progress made by Martin Keatings by people who are supposed to have our trust ,

      Bloody stupid game that they are playing as Martin points out folks are watching they can’t hide and their actions can’t be hidden so whoever is behind this pish better chuck it right now or if these people want to continue the Nuclear option is available,

      No more of this skulking in the background out of sight the ones that are at it will be exposed and their friends won’t be bloody safe either , maybe a right good full on clear out is needed bugger this farting about whisper here wee snippy remarks there ,

      I have the worst possible personality mix OLD MAN IN HURRY I don’t have the patience or the time for this constant Ducking about either do what you’re there for ,or Duck off no ifs buts ands or maybes just get too Duck

    56. MaggieC says:

      Interesting column from Alan Taylor in The National who took part in the K Wark programme ,

      “ The Trial of Alex Salmond shows the BBC is institutionally unionist “

    57. Clapper57 says:

      To those above mentioning Galloway.

      On Twitter we have filmed evidence of George Galloway supporting the EU pre 2014 Indy Ref indeed going as far as to say it would be “mad” to leave it and then in 2016 a complete turn around in being very vocal and taking an active part in supporting leaving the EU….and doing so by supporting Nigel Farage and his Brexit party….oh and also he supported Corbyn….mixed messages and allegiances.

      Further filmed evidence on Twitter shows that he formed an alliance with the Tories in the Better Together campaign and then further filmed evidence on Twitter of him stating ” If you ever find me with that Better Together crowd holding a Union Jack standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories shoot me”

      Now in 2020 he has reached out to the Tories and others to form an alliance and recently it has been reported has been conspiring with Michael Gove, a particularly odious Tory within Boris Johnson’s cabinet, and one who would fight against the supposed politics Galloway supposedly supports….when it suits him that is….apparently ” Now is not the Time”, if I may quote Theresa may, for Galloway to rock the boat in vocalising his part time and interchangeable ‘true’ beliefs and politics…..

      I also noted that some individuals on twitter have stated his ‘party’ Alliance4Unity is not registered with the Electoral Commission…and what is even more confusing is that he is the leader of the newly formed party Workers Party of Britain…

      So much faith does George have in the Union that seemingly neither he is nor his other mixed bunch of candidates, including Tories, are strangely NOT standing in Scotland in Holyrood as candidates for George’s newly formed party i.e. the Workers party of Britain..but instead his candidates from a ‘free for all in political persuasion’ are standing for a allegedly non registered ‘alliance’ party…so are they each to stand as independents then…. is his reticence in using his new ‘Workers party of Britain’ within Scotland for the Holyrood elections perhaps because he knows the ‘Britain’ part of his new REAL party is a word with a toxic association within Scotland……

      We also have the hypocrisy of Ruth Davidson et al having used Alex Salmond’s association with RT as a toxic and corrupt connection to which she sees as tainting the SNP however somehow the Tories and their Tory supporting ‘usual suspects on twitter’ conveniently disregard George Galloway’s same association with this channel……both Galloway and Alex Salmond have programmes on RT…..

      According to yoons on twitter the fact that we are all talking about Galloway so much shows that we apparently fear him…..they wish….but obviously we actually know that the reason we talk about him is because he is such an obvious self serving individual whose supposed principles and politics are shelved when the opportunity arises for him to get on a gravy train which he , I am sure, hopes will elevate him to rise to the big gravy train aka WM…..

      One thing Scots are good at is identifying a chancer and Galloway, as a blatant chancer, has chosen to make his bed in English politics via various parties which have failed to gain him the ultimate prize of sitting in WM….so now he turns to, what he sees as, the last chance saloon and returns to Scottish politics….NOT fighting with his own newly formed party ‘Workers of Britain’ but instead using desperation tactics by reaching out to other parties to form a fake alliance ,including one with a party that he supposedly hates i.e. the Tories….and for that he will find he will be fighting a losing battle because the reason support for Indy and apparently the SNP has risen is due to the …..Tories …now that will be an obstacle he will find is quite impossible to overcome irrespective of how much he tries to justify his reason for uniting with them… Scotland a big NO NO….and as for the ‘unity’ in the title of his party he will find he will, as he knows, not unify all Scots but then tis not unity he really seeks is it….just personal elevation.

      His new fans on Twitter….mad Tory yoons…will drop him like a hot cake should he fail to deliver…as Galloway will drop them…this is a convenient alliance where both sides have an ulterior objective to uniting….one side , the new fans, are desperate to dent the vote of the SNP next year and George is just desperate to get on a gravy train and seem relevant and in turn gain a MSM platform to spout his pro British credentials and hoping, if he succeeds in being elected, that this will give him a bigger platform to stand as a WM candidate at the next GE…..but for what party ?

      Both sides obviously have NO faith in current Unionist parties sustaining support for the Union or indeed the notion that there is a ‘silent majority’ that exists for the Union if there was then why would this unholy alliance be created…..I think Scots can see it for what it is and will vote by a ‘vocal majority’, NOT for a contrived party or any Unionist party or a fake temporary alliance of all, but instead will choose to vote for parties that want to work for those people who choose to live in Scotland……..I think we , in Scotland, have seen more than enough corruption and lies since 2014 to fall once again for even more…..and it is of no significance who the Union chooses as their messenger….as far as Scotland is concerned they are all tarred with the same brush….and thus once again will be be swept away.

      It’s truly past the point of just wanting to scream at how much our country is being used and abused to serve the selfish ambitions of others who care not a sheeite for any of us and yet have the audacity to tell US what they think is best for us while simultaneously diminishing our worth as a nation….we are in GTF territory and have now reached the point where we have had more than enough…..independence is truly LONG overdue.

    58. kapelmeister says:

      Clapper 57

      “..we are in GTF territory… ”

      Right there! Your phrase perfectly captures the Scottish political zeitgeist.

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      British nationalism has certainly done a number on the Scottish psyche, to the point where even our judicial system appears ambivalent towards the health and integrity of our legal rights.

      The Justiciability of Socio Economic Rights – Courts as Protectors of Economic and Social Rights: The Case of South Africa

    60. Ottomanboi says:

      Behind the mask of stay safe Covid-19 propaganda, the stark socio-economic reality.

    61. iain mhor says:

      Indy polls are all.well and good, but I’d like to see a poll on where Scotland stands on Monarchy generally.
      Not just Liz and the crew; hypothetically even in an Independent Scotland – a re-establishment of the Crown perhaps. The Honours of Scotland are sitting under glass gathering stoor, perhaps that’s where Scotland would prefer them – who knows.

      Monarchy is going to crop up one way or another and be placed under scrutiny. No-one can have a constitutional fight with the UK, without the ‘Crown’ being right at the heart of it.

      If at some point you’re taking a slap at the Crown in Parliament (and you are) then it would be circumspect to know how many would bubble about it.

    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      If folk are serious about maintaining their biological integrity, i.e. their health, then they will have to do something about influencing British constitutionalism for the better. That is unlikely though, given the structural nature of Brexitanian legal dysfunctional-ism. So It would probably be a lot more straight forward, simply to reclaim, or take back control, of our national independence and constitutional sovereignty. It’s a far better suggestion than meekly submitting to authoritarian English nationalism, IMHO.

      The right to healthcare in today’s challenging world:
      – is justiciability the answer to the existing problems?

    63. Beaker says:

      Don’t expect any chance of an indyref before next May. Civil Service personnel who work from home due to COVID have been advised this will likely extend to March next year at the earliest.

      That’s according to the media, but I have an independent source (a landlord) who rents properties to a couple of public sector workers.

      So even if Sturgeon wants to hold an indyref before December – which I don’t believe she wants to nor is it practicable – there won’t be the infrastructure in place.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      Westminster does not consider Scots to have a legal right to legal rights, which is a result of the organisation’s legal nature, history, and culture. Unfortunately for Scotland, our judicial system considers itself subourdinate to the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty. That’s how structural British nationalism’s legal penetration into Scottish culture is.

      If only we had some Scottish judges who actually supported the principle of “equality in law”. Imagine that, eh.

      Health Human Rights. 2018 Jun; 20(1): 121–132.
      Evolving the Right to Health
      Rethinking the Normative Response to Problems of Judicialization

    65. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, the judge in the AS trial appears to have been adequately dispassionate and competent. So at least one of our judges isn’t culturally compromised.

      Making the Right to Health a Reality:
      Legal Strategies for Effective Implementation

      Commonwealth Law Conference
      London September 2005

    66. Tannadice Boy says:

      CameronB Brodie says at 5 17pm

      Agreed there is some hope for the judicial system. A female judge exercised competence based on the available evidence weighted against the prisoner at the bar as they used to call them. I wish I could say I have full confidence in the Scottish judiciary. But named person scarred me. They should represent a legal system not a political system. I feel relevations are imminent in other matters. The judicial system has an opportunity to redeem themselves in the eyes of the public.

    67. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      I lack your optimism in our judiciary’s concern for the public’s well-being. Where’s there protest against our (il)legal subjugation?

      The Future of Economic and Social Rights: Introduction

    68. Tannadice Boy says:

      CameronB Brodie says at 5 44pm

      I have confidence in the Scottish people they will exert the appropriate pressure. The legal system is an enclosed friary unaware of the basic concerns of the populace. But I think they will come good in the end. Otherwise I am available for a crowdfunder.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      If they were truly concerned about the democratic product of British constitutional process, I imagine they would feel less bound by deference to ad hoc political process, which lacks adequate moral substance to justify constitutional change. You might even see some resistance against abusive, populist, constitutional majoritarianism.

      The Comparative Fortunes of the Right to
      Health: Two Tales of Justiciability in
      Colombia and South Africa

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but a stunningly large proportion of those recently polled, were unsure about fundamental facts of nature. That’s why governments have a legal duty of care, which doesn’t apply to Scotland, apparently.

      Aspirational Principles or Enforceable Rights? The
      Future for Socio-Economic Rights in National Law

    71. Polly says:

      Beautiful cartoon, beautifully executed and on point at highlighting a horrible situation for Mr Salmond. Horrible situation for Scotland too that that is the media beamed into every home while forcing citizens to pay for it.

      @ Clapper57 at 3.30

      Fantastic post.

    72. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is the legal approach that Scotland’s judiciary would need to support, in order to convince me they actually cared about justice. As this approach to the law is incompatible with Brexit, there really isn’t any room for their “ambivalence”, frankly.

      The legal determinants of health: harnessing the power of
      law for global health and sustainable development

    73. Tannadice Boy says:

      CameronB Brodie says 6 00pm

      I am not legally trained so I defer to your expertise. My point is a simple one. Governments including the Scottish Government and the Scottish judiciary serve with our consent and our taxes. The AS case did go some way in restoring my confidence but there is some way to go. I get the section 30 argument pity the SG doesn’t.

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      I could go on but I don’t want to appear the pessimist. 😉

      Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

    75. Willie says:

      A most interesting point you make Brian Doonthetoon.

      Quite what the programme makers were doing when in making their documentary they decided to advise the nation that whilst on the witness stand, Geoff Aberdein gave evidence to say that on 29th March he met with the First Minister and one of the Alphabet women.

      What an absolutely astounding piece of courtroom testimony for the BBC’s Wark – Clements team to make given all of the reporting restrictions.

      Broadcasters to the World it would seem.

    76. leither says:

      fascinating links Cameron

    77. Tannadice Boy says:

      With 10 minutes to go I was ready to sing to you…Beautiful Sunday. Ah well another time, of course our song has been adopted by Celtic. You can’t even have your own song. Domination in all aspects of Scottish life it would appear.

    78. Breeks says:

      Very quiet here today.

      I see Martin Keatings is over the line. Game on… 🙂

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks. I’ve not looked at this stuff in a very long time, so I’m left wonder which team of shysters is currently advising the SNP, who appear to have become part of British constitutionalism.

      Oñati Socio-legal Series, v. 5, n. 1 (2015) – Indignation, Socio-economic Inequality and the Role of Law

      Socioeconomic inequality and poverty constitute critical human rights challenges in an increasingly globalized world. Not only do they result in material inequities that affect everyday life; they also undermine psychological and social wellbeing.

      In this article, issues of economic injustice and social exclusion are examined through the lens of constitutional rights. Three different dimensions of the nexus between economic justice and constitutionalism are explored, including: (i) the role of law in creating socioeconomic inequality and poverty; (ii) the extent to which economic justice is addressed at the interstices of civil and political rights and freedoms; and (iii) the potential for the concept of social inclusion to assist in the reimagining of constitutional law and economic justice.

      Key words
      Socioeconomic inequality; poverty; constitutional rights; social and economic rights; social inclusion

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, my appreciation of the law is rather specialised, but I’m just a numpty, allegedly.

      The Author 2012. Oxford University Press and New York University School of Law.
      Social rights in the age of proportionality: Global
      economic crisis and constitutional litigation

      Insisting on defining a minimum core content as a prerequisite for the justiciability of social rights is an updated aspiration, which risks the very enforceability of these rights amidst global economic crisis, at the very hour when they are needed the most.

      Proportionality not only creates the context for litigation, enhancing the justiciability of social rights, but also renders their content concrete by promoting a dialogue between the judge and the lawmaker which enhances their content and upgrades them to a shared narrative with civil and political rights, that of the proportionality idiolect.

      This paper aims to explore the application of proportionality from the aspect of social rights and also to explore social rights in the light of proportionality review, demonstrating the way in which proportionality allows the construction of the content of social rights on the basis of balancing conflicting interests, primarily by setting a series of ground rules for the lawmaker.

    81. dakk says:


      22 August, 2020 at 7:28 pm
      Very quiet here today.

      It’s prob just the Yoon trolls ain’t on today.

      Day off.

      Quite sad.

    82. Muscleguy says:

      Salmond was found innocent. Sturgeon on the other hand is I suspect bang to rights. We already know from Geoff Aberdein, former top aide to Salmond that she misled parliament over when she knew the Salmond witch hunt had begun.

      Other things are due to come out so don’t be surprised. Craig Murray knows & he expects the end of her, of Evans, of Murrell & more. That may well take the brakes off indy. Sturgeon has her foot firmly on the brake pedal of our indy vehicle. That is a major problem, wake up!

    83. dakk says:

      @ muscleguy

      Aware of all that and certainly don’t underestimate those likelyhoods.

      Brakes are on indy because of Covid as well.

      Got “old man in a hurry” syndrome too and had a bad day at work listening to Yoons running Scotland into the ground.

      One way or another it looks to me like they are managing to divide us to continue rule us.

    84. cynicalHighlander says:

      @ muscleguy

      As maybe but I’m finding intriquing is that soon after the story first broke Salmond was wiped out of the history of the SNP almost as if they thought him guilty from the outset. Who did that, a NEC secret meeting, the Murrell’s pillow talk? The whole debacle is suspicious from its outset.

    85. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says 8 52pm
      Old man in a hurry? I am not its got to be an Indy Scotland everyone believes in. I think Sturgeon is the barrier. It’s all about her. Covid o these are difficult decisions I have a daily platform I will talk shite ad infitimun. We are needing a new leader. One that is not divisive one that get bring the community together. One that can deliver a lasting Independence. There is plenty of you out there.

    86. Beaker says:

      @Muscleguy says:
      22 August, 2020 at 8:29 pm
      “Other things are due to come out so don’t be surprised. Craig Murray knows & he expects the end of her, of Evans, of Murrell & more.”

      Question is, how long is it going to take if that is the case?

      I don’t think Sturgeon is going to be forced out easily. But things are all a bit confused at the moment, at least to me.

    87. Rick H Johnston says:

      Sleekit George Galloway has had more positions than the Kama Sutra and more parties than Pippa Dee.
      Now he’s collecting Alliances!

    88. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Rick H Johnston

      Building a society then!

    89. dakk says:

      @Tannadice Boy

      “its got to be an Indy Scotland everyone believes in.”

      Nice sentiment,but impossible.

      Honestly don’t care who attains Scotland’s independence or what their policies are.

      Indy first then we can argue policy.

    90. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says at 9 35
      You live in a different Scotland to me. Policy is everything. I look after the women in my life you may think they are unimportant. I don’t. The difference is clear for everyone to see.

    91. cynicalHighlander says:


      Utopia doesn’t exist.

    92. dakk says:

      ” Policy is everything”

      You’re no Michael Collins.

      That’s for sure.

    93. dakk says:

      @Cynical highlander said

      “Utopia doesn’t exist.”

      Tell me about it.

      Was just quoting Tannadice Boy.

    94. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says or didn’t say

      Nothing from you about the protection of women. Tells me everything I needed to know.

    95. Beaker says:

      @Rick H Johnston says:
      22 August, 2020 at 9:31 pm
      “Sleekit George Galloway has had more positions than the Kama Sutra”

      Is that with or without the catsuit…

      Now no one is going to get that image out of their head 🙂

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      Surely it shouldn’t be too hard to secure support for the rule-of-law, which British constitutionalism no longer supports? I’m not sure if it ever did.


    97. dakk says:

      Tannadice boy

      Thought you guys had the day off

    98. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I wasn’t able to “jigsaw” one of the “Alphabet Women” from Craig Murray’s trial reports. However, I was able to identify her from watching the Warkumentary.

      Doubt if Mrs Clements will be in the dock alongside Craig, however.

    99. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says
      You had your answer deal with it. My credentials are greater than yours since I was a member of the SNP before you were born. Nothing about the protection of women from you. Interesting. Now I am watching Sportscene. The real Scotland.

    100. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Gorgeous George adopting advanced coital positions would give him a variety of protuberances to hang his hat on, most of which are probably more acceptable to the electorate than his actual head.

    101. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Cracking one this from Phantom Power

    102. dakk says:

      Tannadice boy

      ” Now I am watching Sportscene. The real Scotland.”


    103. dakk says:

      Livened up a bit on here I detect.

    104. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says
      A good performance by United unlucky to get nothing out of the game. Are you one of these trolls that have no stake in anything?. Still waiting on you to declare your perspective on the protection of women? How many times do I need to ask you?.

    105. dakk says:

      Tannadice boy

      Seen last half hour.United looked decent and hungry.If they can sustain that should do OK this season.

      Against GRA self id.

      Thing is UK gov are still pursuing gra so letting UK decide for Scotland doesn’t compute.

      Indy first policy later.

    106. Tannadice Boy says:

      Daak says
      The UK Government are not pursuing GRA. They have dumped this policy. I am not willing to sacrifice our women. Or for that matter the hate crime bill. Your young I forgive you. But try to be a better troll. Still waiting on you to declare your support for our women.

    107. Willie says:

      Here is another tribute by George Galloway to Sir Jimmy Saville.

      “ He was show business royalty “ and “ he had no need of an OBE to prove it “

      Galloway’s Facebook adoration for the 84 year old sicko at the heart of the establishment kind of tells you everything about Galloway. Birds of a feather do I hear anyone ask.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      The proposed GRA amendments are an elaboration of the law’s historical antipathy towards women appearing in the public realm. Have the Scottish government’s legal team never heard of Tort Law, ffs?

      Human Rights and Bioethics: Formulating a Universal Right to Health, Health Care, or Health Protection?

    109. dakk says:

      Tannadice boy


      I wouldn’t be so sure UK have dumped gra plans.

      “Support our women”

      Yeah sounds good.

    110. dakk says:

      Should’ve archived that.

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      What has been the Lord Advocate’s role in the advancement of the GRA proposals?

      Rights and Responsibility in the Law of Torts

      D. Nolan & A. Robertson (eds.), Rights and Private Law, pp. 251-274, (2012)
      Fordham Law Legal Studies Research Paper No. 2076341
      Harvard Public Law Working Paper No. 12-25


      An adequate understanding of tort law requires distinguishing four senses in which “rights” figure in tort. First and most obviously, tort law imposes duties on actors to refrain from injuring others that are correlative to rights not to be injured in the ways proscribed by tort law.

      Second, tort law confers on one who suffers a violation of the right of non-injury a right of action, i.e., a legal power to hold the tortfeasor liable. Third, the legal power conferred on tort victims is grounded in a duty owed by the state to its citizens and their corresponding right to an avenue of civil recourse against those who have wronged them.

      Finally, the victim’s right against the state to law for the recourse of wrongs derives in part from the natural right – or, more precisely, the natural privilege – of individuals to make certain demands of those who have wronged them. By distinguishing among the kinds of rights involved in tort law, and explaining how they connect to one another, civil recourse theory explains more satisfactorily than other theories the particular sense in which tort is a law of rights and responsibilities.

      Civil Recourse, Coleman, Corrective Justice, Epstein, Fletcher, Hohfeld, Perry, Privilege, Recourse, Reciprocity, Redress, Relational Duties, Responsibility, Rights of Action, Ripstein, Rights, Torts, Tort Law, Wrongs

    112. leither says:

      love yer links cameron

    113. leither says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      22 August, 2020 at 10:16 pm
      I wasn’t able to “jigsaw” one of the “Alphabet Women” from Craig Murray’s trial reports.

      i was, quite clearly oor very ain “rory the lion”


    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      leither 😉

    115. Al-Stuart says:

      Oh Bliss.

      I managed to read many interesting posts on a CAT-FREE-THREAD.

      Is this what It will be like when Scotland becomes Independent?

      No more pesky 77th Brigade Trolls with more personalities behind one I’d than the DSM5. Schroedinger’s Crap gone and forgotten.

    116. jfngw says:

      It seems to me this is the Galloway way.

    117. Beaker says:

      I remember George Galloway crawling up Saddam’s arse.

      He’s an attention seeker more than anything else.

    118. iain mhor says:

      George Galloway is just a transient, useful idiot, nothing more than a risible warm up act. Gordy Broon has still to be rolled oot his crypt yet with the rest of the walking dead, to spurious applause from a cowed and coerced crowd..

      They have a dearth of contemporary acts, just the same old warmed over sick – the same old schtick churned out soulessly and repeatedly.

      All they really have is jaded pier-end comedians rooted in a past already faded from memory – all that’s left to them is faded velvet jackets, sour brylcream, nicotined fingers and cheap vodka breath. Bereft of all sense of timing, they can only trot out tired old material to weary off-season day trippers on rainy afternoons; before they drag themselves to their lonely garrret above a cheap bedsit. There, among the damp and peeling wallpaper and ’50s furniture, beneath the deathly palor cast by a single fly-specked lightbulb, they hack emphysemic lungs into the blue fug roiling from the tarry tip of a dishevelled roll-up; mourning past glories and staring emptily at their pale and tired reflection, in the mould stained and cracked mirror of their damned souls.

      The world will not mourn their passing. Nor should we.

    119. Paul K says:

      This Wark/BBC debacle shows no sign of slowing down. It will be fascinating if Salmond justifiably decides to sue. He’d have one hell of a case given the disparate high-profile people already calling it out as a biased, unfair farce. The Mail, The Telegraph, The Times, The Herald, The National, Alan Taylor, Lesley Riddoch,George Galloway. the list goes on and on. And on. Everyone knows it was an ill-thought-out stitch-up of a man found innocent in the High Court. Pretty sure the BBC itself is mortified but it’s made its bed and must lie in it. I don’t think this is going away. Certainly hope it isn’t.

    120. A Person says:

      Iain Mhor-

      Very well said.

      I am genuinely taken aback that Westminster’s grand strategy to tackle rising support for independence is to trot out these has-beens, put the Union Jack on a few things and get Johnson to go camping. Utterly laughable and rightly seen as such by most Scots. They clearly don’t have the imagination to even attempt things like devo max. Obviously don’t know much about Gladstone and Irish Home Rule and how badly they screwed that one up a hundred years ago as they are repeating the same mistakes. Remarkably clueless.

      I say has-beens but that’s too kind because they weren’t up to much in their “prime”. Davidson a media creation who 70% of Scots rejected at the polls. Brown the worst prime minister since Eden (admittedly surpassed by the three who have come after him), McConnell so bland that a staunchly unionist relative of mine voted SNP in 2007 on the basis that “is that numpty really the best we can do?” And as for Galloway…I mean, talk about scraping the barrel. They might as well go home if a 24-carat charlatan like that is being press-ganged into service.

    121. Mialuci says:

      I don’t own a television so this stuff mostly passes me by, as for miss wark I have no interest in anything she or her like have to say about anything on the BBC.
      If I want to be a boring twat like a lot of you people on here maybe I should get myself a big lovely telly and watch the BBC, I would rather cut my conkers off I think, at least If I did I would have something of interest to talk about at my next dinner party lol

    122. Mialuci says:

      Cameronb Brodie

      For goodness sake Cameron, put a sock in it, I don’t think anybody reads what you comment about, I know I certainly don’t, about the only thing I know about people concerned with our laws is this, most of the blighters should be locked up for boring the arse off us lol

      PS. Have a nice day Cameron B

    123. Robert Louis says:

      Galloway is just a political whore. No more, no less. Not of any importance.

    124. Breeks says:


      “ Giant blood-sucking fly with razor sharp teeth spotted by horrified holidaymaker on Scots island

      Dear god, it’s just a horsefly.

      Wait until they see a wood wasp.

    125. Fixitfox says:

      The 3 of them were clearly offside.

    126. Dorothy Devine says:

      Breeks , I can remember being on holiday when I was very wee and saying to my Dad that there was a giant bluebottle on the rock beside me – the next thing I knew was an almighty thwack with a stick and the ‘giant bluebottle ‘ was no more – he had no intention of letting it bite me even horses don’t like that.

      A wood wasp is a different kettle of fish , sounds like a decrepit helicopter but apparently the long ‘sting ‘end is just for trees though one can’t help wondering how it tells the difference twixt upright human and tree.

    127. winifred mccartney says:

      I have just been through Sunday National and apart from half dozen words in opening paragraph by Cosgrove not a word on Wark’s media trial/stitch up of AS. What is wrong with the Sunday National with its no defence of AS. Disappointing.

    128. Effijy says:

      It seems that there are an estimated 1.3 million Brits
      Living in the EU.

      If the reciprocal health service cover ends with Brexit
      and most of these citizens are elderly and need health
      services regularly.

      Will hundreds of thousands of them need to return to the
      UK as they can’t afford private health?
      Will the NHS be able to support this dramatic increase?
      Will there be housing available?
      Will it need to be council housing as selling a small apartment
      In Spain won’t fund a purchased flat in any main city?
      Expats don’t receive pension increases when they relocate but
      Obviously they do when they return. Is there extra money for this?

      Have some returning retired early going to need a job when they return?
      If Covid delivers 3 Million unemployed and Brexit another million and all the
      Food stuffs we eat from the EU has dramatic price increases, I think you will
      See Brits going in the opposite direction to the refugees in the Chanel.

    129. Dorothy Devine says:

      P.S Does anyone actually believe that the P.M was holidaying in Scotland ? No? Me neither.

    130. Socrates MacSporran says:

      By his own courageous admission, Grouse Beater will not be with us for much longer. He may, and hopefully will be well enough to supply us with more of his good sense and wisdom, but, if not, his blog post today, on dissolving the Union may go down as one of his finest works.

      I urge all Wingers to read and absorb the intelligence therein.

      We need every weapon at our disposal to get us away from this poisonous Union.

    131. robertknight says:


      Thanks for the link – to use a rather crude, but in this case apt, American expression: the SNP needs to shit or get off the pot!

    132. Republicofscotland says:

      Johnson’s holiday in Scotland is beginning to look more and more like a PR stunt, as a Tory backing news rag, gets airtime on the BBC news in which its declared very sweet that Johnson, his girlfriend and their child spent the night in a flimsy tent, on a windswept field next to their hired cottage that they allowed their MI5 bodyguards use whilst they roughed it in the pouring rain with a four month old child.

      Add in that the ultra British nationalist Neil Oliver thought that Johnson and his family were somehow unsafe in Scotland, and Galloway’s deputy leader of the British nationalist party Alliance for Unity threw in that the SNP are comparable to Sinn Fein in that the possess a paramilitary wing.

      One can then begin to see a pattern emerging stemming from this so called holiday.

    133. Davie Oga says:

      Great link Socrates.

      The paucity of ambition shown by the current leadership is only overshadowed by their scheming and manipulations to keep hold of the reins of power.
      A movement for national liberation has been hijacked by those who value personal enrichment and status over our freedom. An innocent man has nearly been put in prison for the rest of his life due to the lies that eminated from the First Minister’s office yet still they trundle on unchallenged. What’s next then for Team Nicolas thirst for power. Murder? The bar as what you can get away with is pretty high in this “administration”.

    134. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Thought I’d bookmarked this but hadn’t so it took a while to find – always worth a re-read.

    135. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘Better sit still than rise up and fa’. The Scottish cringe is alive and well. Just read the hecklers who trivialise and disparage any suggestions offering routes to independence. The Carol Craig syndrome. She wrote about our lack of confidence, offered no solution but did say we need radical new ideas and practices, and then came out for ‘No’ in the 2014 referendum. We tolerate a First Minister and leader of our foremost independence seeking party who publicises that she suffers from ‘imposter syndrome’ (‘Independent’ – 15 May 2019) which can cause inaction due to fear of failure.

      Scotland will only become independent with the assent and support of the Scottish people. That assent and support has to be earned and maintained. There’s no sign of that happening. No sponsored debate, no communication, no draft constitution, no education, no preparation, no plan, no campaigns, no test cases, no questions, no answers just continuing inaction and an arrogant expectation of blind belief in the infallibility of polls and a leadership team who have done little on the independence front in the last five years but collect their salaries and expenses.

      We are often informed, sometimes even by the allegedly well-informed, that an independent Scotland, obtained with the support of the Scottish people, will not be recognised internationally unless independence is agreed by Westminster. Unquestioning credulity won’t bring us independence. We are never told on what grounds Westminster could withhold approval other than by saying no, or now is not the time. International law and practice doesn’t usually encourage coercion or obstructionism. Ref: UN Charter esp. Article 1, s2 – our start and fallback position. Of course, like the UK, not all States always act reasonably but are States really so gullible? Is Westminster really held in such high esteem internationally? Westminster will inevitably object. We don’t have to help.

      Would changing a domestic law to try and stop a nation moving towards independence be accepted as falling within the range of reasonable actions applicable in these circumstances? If that happened how would the Scottish government react? Would a challenge be mounted? On recent evidence probably not. Currently a supine and servile Scottish government and an unprincipled, self-serving establishment seem likely to unite in their common cause of overlooking unscrupulous practices while maintaining their protected, privileged and comfortable lifestyles. It is distressing that those in a position to focus attention on the deceit surrounding us and help bring about change are content to remain silent. Are our representatives really so purchasable?

      What if Westminster says no even if we obtain international approval? We should remember Chagos and be prepared for that eventuality. That could be an early opportunity to show we have the qualities required to be a successful, independent country.

      Scotland might still be an unwon cause but right now it’s looking like a lost cause. If we’re going to break up a three hundred year old Union we need to grow up, smarten up and toughen up.

    136. kapelmeister says:

      I’ll echo Jean Baudrillard and say that Boris Johnson’s Caledonian camping never really happened.

      Ron MacLean @11:11
      A belter of a post.

    137. mike cassidy says:

      AYRSHIREROB 10.01

      In this case the headline is a lie.

      Even the article only claims Salmond is consulting his lawyers

    138. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Effijy says:

      “Expats don’t receive pension increases when they relocate but
      Obviously they do when they return. Is there extra money for this?”

      As an immigrant (not an ex-pat) in an EU Land and pensioner, I receive every year my pension increases and (miserly) Xmas bonus. The same goes for my Danish pension.

      Whether this will continue for my English pension when we are out of the EU transition period I don’t know.

    139. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      mike cassidy says:
      23 August, 2020 at 12:16 pm
      AYRSHIREROB 10.01

      In this case the headline is a lie.

      Even the article only claims Salmond is consulting his lawyers


      Consulting his lawyers-that a bad thing like?

      Your point?

    140. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland will be free when a substantial majority desire it and vote for it, roughly the SNP when the time is ripe view, or when those who do desire it are prepared to ‘push the envelope’ beyond the current thinking. Waiting for the time to be ripe has a habit of turning into never and as for pushing that envelope I am yet to be convinced that the current nationalist model is capable of doing that. Caution and risk aversion are the besetting sins of the contemporary movement. And to that might be added a tendency to the politically naive.
      Who or what will skin that smirking unionist cat? Expecting it to offer itself up for the procedure is certainly not in the script.
      The Covid-19 scare has also transformed the issue. I am amazed by how few have realised the extent to which ‘authority’ and popular trust in it has been compromised.
      As one not prepared to mask up or live my life via Zoom I can’t wait for this global house of cards to topple. Maybe then people will take democracy and freedom seriously and give the self-electing agents of ‘authority’ the requisite forensic scrutiny. But don’t expect the current system to provide the means for skinning that monstrous moggy.
      More subversive stuff on the great Covid con.

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are you Roger Scruton?

      Stand up for the real meaning of conservatism

    142. crazycat says:

      @ Graf Midgehunter and Effijy

      When looking at this issue in 2014, I discovered that some countries have an arrangement with the UK that causes pensions to be upgraded annually, and some don’t.

      So you’re both right – it all depends where the pensioner lives. The relevant arrangements with the EU will have to be part of the “negotiation”!

    143. SOG says:

      About Axex S – from the Nat, “A source close to Salmond told the Mail on Sunday”.

      Why would they speak to that Tory organ, and not several papers?

    144. Republicofscotland says:

      SNP MSP Alex Neil is to stand down, and won’t seek re-election in the 2021 Holyrood elections. Neil has been an MSP since 1999.

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rodger Scruton is an English philosopher who is concerned with both personal liberty and social cohesion, so all good there. In fact, much of his thinking is highly appropriate to Scotland’s cultural conservation, and the preservation of the rule-of-law. However, Scotland’s demographics mean we need immigration, which Rodger isn’t so keen on.

      He is also strongly Euro-sceptic, which is a perspective that has been promoted to the significance of ‘state pseudo-religion’, in the minds of many English/British nationalists. This faith-based politics is shaping Scotland’s political culture and practice, from outside of Scotland (see Brexit), and is extremely ‘unhelpful’ to the conservation and preservation of Scotland’s civic society, IMHO.

      Here’s a speech he gave to Vlaams Belang, which is a right-wing, some would say populist, Flemish political party seeking independence from the Belgian state.

      Roger Scruton on Immigration, Multiculturalism and the Need to Defend the Nation State

      ….It does not need me to tell you that the account of national loyalty that I have just offered does not fit easily to the case of Belgium. For modern Belgium is a state in which two nations are being held together, largely against the will of one of them.

      Belgian citizenship is not rooted in a shared national loyalty, and has become a purely legal privilege, which can be bought or sold with the passport. This buying and selling of citizenship, often to people who think of it purely as a right and never as a duty, is common throughout Europe.

      The political élite sees nothing wrong in people collecting passports as they might collect memberships of clubs. But it seems that the trafficking in Belgian passports is especially popular, perhaps because there is no pre-political loyalty which the passport represents.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ignorance breads fear, which undermines the capacity to resist authoritarianism. Yes, our liberty is under threat a never before, but a scientific world-view is not the enemy.

      Citizenship Education for Adults for Sustainable Democratic Societies

      Adults have a key role in ensuring that society is democratic and sustainable, by making decisions about the permanence and continuity of the world/society, and as role models to the new participants in a democratic society.

      In this context, the purpose of this research is to determine the citizenship education needs of adults in a sustainable democratic society. The study was designed in a qualitative research pattern and was carried out using the case study method. The study group consisted of adults, who were determined by criteria sampling method. Demographic data, a semi-structured interview form, and scenario texts were used to obtain data. The data obtained were analysed by using the content analysis method.

      Perspectives on adult citizenship education were presented according to the themes created. It was found that participants have a citizenship tendency in line with the traditional national citizenship approach and behaved accordingly. In conclusion, this study proposes that citizenship education should be organized for adults, who are today’s decision makers and role models for tomorrow’s decision makers, in order to improve their political literacy, legal literacy, and political, social, civic engagement and democratic values, which will contribute to the goal of a sustainable democracy in society.

      sustainability; democracy; adult education; citizenship education; citizenship awareness

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