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The funeral pyre

Posted on January 31, 2017 by

Readers familiar with our standing advice to newspaper customers that the headline is nearly always a lie might like to consider today’s Press & Journal.


The word “pyre” comes from the Greek word “pyra”, meaning “fire”. Surprisingly, it’s NOT the same root as “Pyrrhic”, as in “Pyrrhic victory”, meaning one that’s achieved by metaphorically burning your own city down. (Which in fact is named after the Greek general Pyrrhus of Epirus.)

But why the etymology lesson?

Experienced alert readers will have spotted just from the image above that the P&J’s story bursts into flames from the picture caption onwards. As early as the end of the first paragraph the “Brexit boost” of the headline has subtly changed in character, and it’s not long until we find out why.

““The weakening of the pound following the EU referendum led to improved prices for grain, beef and lamb, resulting in a boost to the value of outputs,” said government.

“Another important effect of the exchange rate was the increase in the value of EU support payments. The 17% change in the exchange rate resulted in total payments increasing by £53 million.”

Subsidies, including coupled support, accounted for £533million of total income in 2016. This was made up of £400million in Pillar 1 direct support, £91million in Pillar 2 rural development payments and £42million in coupled support.”

Most of the “boost”, in other words, was accounted for by the collapse in the value of the pound increasing the value of EU subsidies – the subsidies that will end when the UK leaves in a couple of years’ time. So farmers will have collectively gained £53m from the exchange rate for a brief period, but will lose just over TEN TIMES that much EVERY YEAR when the supply of EU cash suddenly dries up in 2019.

(The gains from better prices will almost certainly be wiped out in turn by increased costs when the UK is no longer in the single market, and/or direct trade tariffs.)

Of course, it’s always possible that the ever-generous UK government will step in to replace the EU subsidies in full so as to keep a bunch of Scottish farmers happy and oh for Heaven’s sake stop laughing at the back we can’t hear ourselves think.

Now, you have to hand it to the Tory-leaning P&J for putting a positive spin on Brexit while the sun shines. But if we were Scotland’s farmers we’d bung the windfall into a high-interest savings account ASAP. Or perhaps invest it in a hefty insurance policy for when that sunshine sets some haybales on fire and burns their farms down.

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  1. 31 01 17 17:56

    The funeral pyre | speymouth

171 to “The funeral pyre”

  1. Clootie says:

    …only a unionist rag could have spun this as “good news”.

    Brexit devaluation of the pound increases subsidies which are going to stop!!!

  2. Connor McEwen says:

    Neverendum Tory addendum. As Tonto would say to the SNP.
    Twisted Tory effers

  3. Muscleguy says:

    And of course here in Scotland where large areas of farmland are owned by rich big landowners it will not be the actual farmers, those who actually till the soil or shear the sheep or milk the coos who will collect those payments but their landlords.

  4. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    …and oh for Heaven’s sake stop laughing at the back we can’t hear ourselves think.

    I’m not laughing, Stu, I’m weeping. This is “alternative fact” with a vengeance.

    Dear Heaven, please give us the insight and the strength to get out of this freak show before the clowns bring down the whole tent…

  5. Tam the Bam. says:

    ‘But if we were Scotland’s farmers we’d bung the windfall
    into a high-interest savings account…’

    Good luck in trying to find one of those!

  6. Susan Smith says:

    Good old P&J. The danger is that so many of its readers trust it implicitly.

  7. Proud Cybernat says:

    So they’ll (briefly) have 17% more income. Does this rag not realise that my biscuits in Tesco are up by 17% since January?

    And it’s not just the biscuits… wallopers.

  8. bobajock says:

    Only ffs.

    Words fail me at the blistering idiocy.

  9. Auld Rock says:

    Will this sort of thing be included in ‘Fake News’? I do hope so for if it is it will put the mockers on the BBC, Daily Fail(Mouthpiece of Brit Nats), Express, at al and of course we must not forget THE RECORD and its infamous VOW – hell mend them all.

    Auld Rock

  10. Socrates MacSporran says:

    OK Scottish farmers – eat your cereals that you will soon be unable to grow, without EU subsidies; or sell to the EU, or less and less-so to producers of cereals-based products, since they cannot sell them to the rest of the world: because, thanks to Brexit, we do not have workable trade deals.

    But, never mind Scottish farmers, you are an important part of the Tory party’s support in Scotland – they will look after their own.

    Aye Right!!

  11. David Ross says:

    We better send this P AND J article to the Westminster ‘ fake news’ commission. No…wait….we don’t need to…..they were on the news yesterday telling us we can trust the provenance of news from MSM. Phew. That’s all right then.

  12. Legerwood says:

    Of course the fall in the pound is a two edged sword.

    Yesterday as I drove around a fairly extensive part of Central Scotland I saw diesel at £1.29 per litre.

    Wait till the farmers have to fill up their tractors – even with ‘red’ diesel – or take their animals etc. to market.

  13. heedtracker says:

    Neo fascist Voice of The North, for your older swivelled loony. Its not a headline for farmers though, who must be more than aware of the oncoming Brexit farming finis mundi. Its all for average Joes like you and me.

    Never trust a tory, or their shit rags.

  14. Betty Boop says:

    “…high-interest savings account…”? Have interest rates had a Brexit boost too?

    Jings, farmers must be counting their blessings.

  15. jimnarlene says:

    Artificial carrot, before the very real stick; which the Tories will beat us all with.

  16. Bob MACK says:

    This is “spin” of tornado proportions.

    Even “Walter Mitty” would have been proud of this. Gloppita Gloppita.

  17. dandy dons 1903 says:

    Depress+Churnal should be called out for what it is a parochial duplicitous tory yoon rag.

  18. Bootsy81 says:

    If I was a farmer I’d frankly be shiteing myself. On the other hand, lots of farm and land owning types in the Borders who are Tory and anti-independence if memory serves. I certainly don’t wish them ill but it could be things like this that sway them in the end. If they are astute enough to spot it of course.

  19. David Smith says:

    If they beat us with sticks this time, they might find a lot of us hit back…

  20. galamcennalath says:

    Like the Telegraph, endlessly painting a rosy picture about life since Brexit. We had the vote, but we are a long way from it becoming reality. Just wait until it happens!

    Well, actually no, just wait until it become crystal clear just how bad it will be when it does happen. Then they are going to find the cheerleading very difficult.

  21. Thrawn says:

    Well I’m glad you are so keen to defend EU farming subsidies in their current form….subsidies that have resulted in obscene overproduction of certain items that have then been price dumped on the 3rd world crowding out local production while at the same time preventing 3rd world farmers from exporting on a level playing field…but you know as long as a few SNP voting teuchters in Banff and Buchan are getting the latest Massey Ferguson who cares if we are condemning millions to poverty…

    Unfortunately the farming lobby is so powerful (the tories are the party of the shires never forget) that these subsidies will stay in place and as much as you might want to play the victim they will of course apply on a UK wide level

  22. Luigi says:

    Aye, there’s a concerted effort underway by the MSM to convince us that Brexit ain’t so bad after all. I know we are not supposed to be negative in campaigning for Indy, but Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster and people should know, right?

    The yoons are already feeding their target voters (low info and misinformed soft NOs) with headlines and snappy one-liners (which will in due course be regurgitated on the door steps). I’m particularly concerned about the “Scotland’s trade with rUK is four times that with the EU” one, which we know is crap, but it packs a fair punch to the unsuspecting punter.

    We cannot do much about the headlines (except for a wee bit of help from the National now and again), but we must come up with our own punchy one-liners, particularly in response to the other side’s.

    Yes it’s really dumbing it down, but remember, not everyone is as politically aware and engaged as WoS posters. Failure to attract the low info voters with dumbed down, simple messages could loose us IndyRef 2.

  23. adrian brown says:

    ‘stop laughing at the back we can’t hear ourselves think’. Love it!

  24. Macart says:

    So when the EU subsidies disappear after brexit and the UK gov. does its ‘review’ of subsidies in 2020, what will the P&J headline be I wonder.

    How will they explain the downturn in the farmer’s fortune… SNP bad?

    How do you explain to a readership you got it so catastrophically wrong, other than by blaming A.N. Other of course?

  25. Simba says:

    And of course the ongoing UK £ contributions to the EU Euro Budget will have to be correspondingly increased because of the fall in the exchange rate. Naturally these will in due course be presented as ‘additional savings’ as and when they cease. How to have fun with figures!

  26. woosie says:

    At the risk of saying to the Scottish farmers who thought indyscot was crazy ” told you so “…

    wm has taken all the subsidies for Scottish agriculture, fishing, etc, and used the money to buy lottery tickets. The top prize would be worth less than the investment, whereas no winning tickets would mean bankruptcy for UK ( which can be hidden from the masses by clever manipulation of stats and msm ) and for our farmers ( which would be all too real ).

    Indy soon must be the best bet this millenium!

  27. Stoker says:

    Bootsy81 on 31 January, 2017 at 5:48 pm:

    And getting the truth out to those farmers in the sort of regions you mention is a monumental task all of its own, just ask Morag Kerr.

  28. Meg merciless says:

    regarding farm payments there was a question in par;lament last week(?) asking whether three noble Lords and Dukes would receive their farm payments as expected this time round. One was to receive £300,000+; one was due to get £450,000-ish and the third was due a whopping £900,000. The answer was yes and so that £1.5 million would be paid to very deserving, poor farming nobility.

    How many’ landed gentry’ are taking the plum payments in Scotland leaving a much reduced pot for the real farming folk? Also worth pointing out that in Scotland our farmers get paid the lowest sum per hectare of any farmer in the EU and the UK – a figure that was negotiated by WM .

    Who’d be a farmer?

  29. Hamish100 says:

    ……. And the fishermen think Westminster will support them. RUK will offer up the Scottish fishing rights to support English fishing and others doing deals such as Spain. Will the Tory fisherman categorical state only Scots boats will fish in Scots waters?

    Thought not.

  30. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for May 2013 now over on O/T.

  31. Gary45% says:

    Cheers yet again Stu.
    It should be a laugh watching Wee Jong Un and the Sneering Burd, shouting this from the roof tops, only for them to spectacularly fall on top of that other EBC shortbread “Quality?” journo, Gary “liar” Rubberheid.
    The empire news?papers must be really dumb, as we all know everything has gone up in price, and art 50 hasn’t been signed yet.
    SNP will of course get the blame for all the problems coming.

  32. manandboy says:

    As the P&J spouts its nonsense, the British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC), has just hired a new attack dog for the Today show on R4. So begins the next phase of Westminster’s propaganda war.

    “Monday 30 January, the BBC announced that Sarah Sands will be taking over from Jamie Angus as editor of Radio 4‘s flagship news and current affairs programme.
    What her contribution ….will be is still unknown. But if her previous attitudes towards news are anything to go by, it won’t be positive. She sent a memo when she was at The Telegraph to its then-Editor Charles Moore, urging him to:

    “play on people’s fears… sell stories hard, but just stop short of distortion… the middle classes want to read about unemployment and negative equity and juvenile delinquency. We should be basically friendly and fair minded but then take people aback with ferocious militia-style attacks… The Mail gets the best out of people through fear.”

    Except Ms Sands will need to buck up her ideas. UK State propaganda don’t do stopping ‘short of distortion’, and they certainly won’t be ‘friendly and fair minded’.

    In the meantime, a seriously isolated Theresa May has a major problem with a unanimous vote against in the Commons in the emergency debate over Trump’s State Visit, and the massive online petition (1.6 million) to cancel the trip.

    Add the huge street demonstrations throughout the UK protesting the visit, and growing international condemnation at both Government and street level, and you’ve got a major headache for Theresa and the Tory Cabinet, who in their desperation to show the world that they can make Brexit a major success story, have gone and backed Donald Trump, the one horse that very few people fancy very much.

    Theresa will soon be toxic if she keeps on making these errors of judgement.

  33. geeo says:

    Ah..but we are all forgetting…

    Farming will be devolved to the SG as a indyref2 ‘new vow’

    Obviously, the massive funding shortfall will also be devolved….perfect future “SNP BAD” material.

  34. robertknight says:

    Pass the can of insecticide spray will you…

    P & J = PISH & JOBBERS

    Only good for attracting flies.

  35. Dan Huil says:

    I haven’t bought or read it for many years but I know the p & j is still, without doubt, one of the most disgusting britnat rags in circulation. It’s Cringe and Shame about being a “Scottish” publication daily delivers the most unadulterated britnat BS, all in the name of the never-to-be-questioned domination of our “betters” in Westminster.

    Sometimes The National is positioned near the p & j on newspaper stands; I always take great care not to touch the p & j’s rancid pages for fear of being contaminated by its fawning filth.

  36. blackhack says:

    Manandboy @ 6.08…”Theresa will soon be toxic if she keeps on making these errors of judgement.”

    She’s been toxic since she was born….

  37. Gary45% says:

    Calamity Mayhem can carry on imploding, the only fear I have is, if they have a re-shuffle of the Tories, Biffo Johnson could become PM, or if there is an election called, there is a chance Zionist Farage with help from his special friend The Trumpenator, could win in the bigoted south. SCARY

  38. JLT says:

    Or perhaps invest it in a hefty insurance policy for when that sunshine sets some haybales on fire and burns their farms down

    …or when the UK signs up a trade deal with New Zealand who, no doubt, are going to export mutton and lamb to us by the absolute container load (because after all …what else is NZ selling to us???).

    I’m sure Scottish farmers will be absolutely chuffed to bits to be competing in a race to the bottom over mutton products coming from just about the most furthest away place on the Earth.

  39. Joemcg says:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg has just said Scotland has gave up its sovereignty to the UK parliament.

  40. Black Joan says:

    manandboy @ 6.08 — yes, isn’t it about time for a parody of that Downfall scene with Theresa in the starring role?

    In the same vein, did anyone hear Redwood in the Brexit “debate”? (At 17 minutes 47 seconds here )

    He sounded as if he would soon need the attention of a paramedic with a hypodermic, but perhaps that’s the result of realising that his argument adds up to a jolly good case for Scotland’s independence.

  41. schrodingers cat says:

    important lesson on this subject

  42. Valerie says:

    Redwood was horrendous, no self control. Brownie points today for the Tories, as no one barked like a dog at a female trying to deliver a speech.

    The Labstainers ride again. As useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

  43. Sheryl Hepworth says:

    Luigi says @ 5.55pm.
    “Scotland’s trade with rUK is four times that with the EU” one, which we know is crap, but it packs a fair punch to the unsuspecting punter.” Indeed it does Luigi but surely our own Scotland’s true exports make up 3/4 of our ‘exports to England, and they (England) count those as their exports for the figures.

  44. Fiona Laing says:

    Just wait until the trade deal with Trump-hormone beef, wheat, GMO chicken and all the rest of their agricultural products. I’m sure that Scottish agriculture will be treated as “an expendable industry” when the “negotiations” start – sadly would the last person to leave farming in Scotland please shut the gate behind them.

  45. brewsed says:

    In 2013, Damian Bates, the editor of the Press and Journal, married Sarah Malone, the Vice-President of Trump Golf Scotland. One should not, therefore, be surprised if the P&J’s editorial stance vis-a-vee Trump, golf, Balmedie, renewables – particularly off-shore wind turbines, the risks of eating too much carrot juice, depletion of the ozone layer caused by the over use of hair spray or, in fact, pretty much anything, are in any way balanced. This is, after all, the paper which on receiving the news that the Titanic had sunk headlined, ‘North East man dies at sea’.

  46. galamcennalath says:

    Sheryl Hepworth says:

    …surely our own Scotland’s true exports make up 3/4 of our ‘exports to England, and they (England) count those as their exports for the figures.

    Indeed. I would really like to know what percentage with cross The Border then proceeds beyond England.

    Anyone know of any estimates of the true picture having been done?

  47. Brian Powell says:

    And if a CETA type deal is done then that will be trying to competing with cheap imports.

  48. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    manandboy: ‘…the British Brainwashing Corporation…’

    Buggering Boys Club, more like.

  49. schrodingers cat says:

    “Scotland’s trade with rUK is four times that with the EU” one, which we know is crap, but it packs a fair punch to the unsuspecting punter.” Indeed it does Luigi but surely our own Scotland’s true exports make up 3/4 of our ‘exports to England, and they (England) count those as their exports for the figures.

    correct on both accounts
    but since 90% of scotlands trade with the ruk is made up of irreplaceble commodities, electricity, oil, gas, water etc the wto tariffs will just make them 10% more expensive to buy in england. It isnt as if they can do without?

    scotland is englands biggest trade destination, but england doesnt export neccessities that cant be sourced elsewhere a wto tariff barrier wont make these goods any more expensive in scotland, the shops will just source the goods from elsewhere in the eu more cheaper, cars, electrical goods, cola, crisps etc

  50. Gary45% says:

    Well said, it will be “take our unfit for human consumption products or we’ll sue you”
    I am certain the “rod of steel!?” backbone of the Empire will stand up to the shysters of corporate America.
    Aye that will be shining.
    After all how many farms and fishing boats are there in “The City”?

  51. yesindyref2 says:

    Let’s hope Farming4Yes can get the word out.

    Thinking back there were a lot of funds for YES Scotalnd, though a lot less than they budgetted for.

    Why not some of those funds given to the likes of Farming for YES to get the word out on specific issues like this – and the way the convergence uplift was share between the 4 nations of the UK, rather than all comng to Scotland where the EU intended it to come?

    And that even if the farmers had got the whole of that uplift, Scotland would still be below the average for CAP Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 uplift?

    Having said that, I think probably most farmers knew, but the message does need to get drummed home.

    Westminster ain’t good for Scottish farmers, and being out of the EU is even worse.

  52. galamcennalath says:



    There are two petitions on the go. Anti and pro. Anti way ahead of pro. A quick Google will find them.

    What is interesting are the maps.

    Anti seems fairly well spread around UK constituencies. Pro, on the other had, shows more in South Britain with specific hot spots. I reckon Brexit Leave hot spots coincide with Trump support, unsurprisingly.

  53. Dr Jim says:


    Snackbeard Mundell’s fond of saying that too
    In the act of union If my memory serves clause 38 says something like Scotland is extinguished blahdeblahblah
    which legally I don’t know for sure but I know we’re still called Scotland we’ve got a footy team (of sorts) a rugby team golf batters and tennis boys and girls and stuff

    Maybe they’re just letting us use the name Scotland to keep us happy in case we get annoyed about something

    But I do know I exist and I’m Scottish so unless Snackbeard and his mates want to tell me face to face I’m extinguished
    I might just point out to him that I’m not as my claymore is making it’s way down from his head to his Arse

    Because I don’t believe unpleasant talk like that adds to the flavour of the debate don’t you know (I’ll say that ever so politely)

  54. schrodingers cat says:

    galamcennalath says:

    …surely our own Scotland’s true exports make up 3/4 of our ‘exports to England, and they (England) count those as their exports for the figures.

    Indeed. I would really like to know what percentage with cross The Border then proceeds beyond England.

    Anyone know of any estimates of the true picture having been done?

    very difficult, uk companies dont keep records of destinations of their goods to other uk destinations

    better to examine exactly what scotland produces and see what are our biggest exports to the ruk, I think you will find that most of our exports cant be sourced anywhere else but scotland, eg fish, stud beef, electricity etc

  55. Nana says:


    Fake fakery lies from a desperate tory mouthpiece

    Ruth Davidson speech at the Hume Institute

    archived by G A Ponsonby

  56. sandycraig says:

    Black Joan 6.50

    Redwood made one significant comment. He asked the question ” what is it about freedom they don’t like? ”

    Exfuknactly as someone I know would have said. This is the question we should harangue them with now.

  57. schrodingers cat says:

    brewsed says:
    the Press and Journal, which on receiving the news that the Titanic had sunk headlined, ‘North East man dies at sea’.

    or the headline on the day WWII was broe out “huge neep fund in Dyce”

  58. scottieDog says:

    “Scotland’s trade with rUK is four times that with the EU”

    In other words a high risk economic monoculture the result of being in a political straight jacket. It’s clearly not working and has to be diversified..

    We need to compare what we have with our potential

  59. schrodingers cat says:

    buckled here

    twitter exchange about whether brenda wants to conduct state visit with trump

    Jenks @TheLostBride
    Replying to TheSchizoPodcaster

    Let’s waterboard the queen and find out what she wants.

  60. Alastair says:

    House of Commons live.
    Are the SNP dropping out MP’s everytime they are not called to speak ?

  61. sandycraig says:

    Redwood, Last post too quick.

    This is what they want, to be free, well we want the same and it’s coming sooner than they think.

  62. galamcennalath says:

    Fiona Hyslop addressing a committee of the EU parliament.

    Note the response from the Tories’ man in Spain!

    Also, how widely has the full story been reported in the colonial media?

    From the Gibraltar Chronicle…..

  63. Dan Huil says:

    I sense the stout yoemanry of England are getting a wee bit miffed with the people of Scotland. Could an English call to abolish the Scottish parliament be on the cards?

  64. heedtracker says:

    C4 teatime news, Tim Farron, FibDem leader of what 7 MP’s, given main party Brexit waffle time, by the C4 crew. Which oddly enough is exactly what neo fascist Voice of The North Press and Journal also does for fabulous liar of the milenium Carbuncle. Democracy tory UKOK style.

  65. yesindyref2 says:

    What is the EEA Not?

    The EEA Agreement does not cover the following EU policies:

    Common Agriculture and Fisheries Policies (although the Agreement contains provisions on various aspects of trade in agricultural and fish products);
    Customs Union;
    Common Trade Policy;
    Common Foreign and Security Policy;
    Justice and Home Affairs (even though the EFTA countries are part of the Schengen area); or
    Monetary Union (EMU).

  66. caledonia says:

    I had that paper delivered till a few months ago as it was getting silly with 90% of the letters snpbad and there were anything of up to 3 snp bad reports every day in it.. (more on a Saturday for some reason)

    would have still continued with it as it was a local paper but with most of Scotland voting snp there was no way that amount of unionists were writing in

  67. Socrates MacSporran says:


    While I agree with you, the P&J is an awful newspaper, I am afraid, that old “North East Man Dies At Sea” headline re the Titanic is one of the great urban myths of journalism.

    It never happened that way.

    Dr Jim, Joemcg

    Don’t know where that “Article 38” comes from. There are only 25 articles in both the English and Scottish forms of the Act, and, nowhere does it say Scotland was extinguished and became part of England. That’s just more Tory shite and we have to keep making this clear.

    Just because the Tories think they bought-out Scotland in 1706/7 doesn’t make it true, but, makng them see this, could be a long drawn-out process.

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    Tricky one on what’s needed to become a member of the EEA. It says “concensus” which means it could be done without a vote at all – if everyone agrees! Much in the EU is done by concensus, similar I daresay for EFTA.

    Article 126 of the Agreement on the EEA makes it clear that the EEA Agreement only applies to the territories of the EU, in addition to Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Under the present wording of the EEA Agreement, it is therefore impossible to be a party to the EEA Agreement without being a member of either the EU or EFTA.

    According to Article 128 of the EEA Agreement, “any European State becoming a member of the Community shall, and the Swiss Confederation or any European State becoming a member of EFTA may, apply to become a party to this Agreement. It shall address its application to the EEA Council.”

    The EEA Council takes political decisions leading to the amendment of the EEA Agreement, including the possible enlargement of the EEA. Decisions by the EEA Council are taken by consensus between the EU on the one hand and the three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway – on the other.

  69. Effijy says:

    Why is it that Westminster claims to rule over a free and democratic society when we don’t have one solitary newspaper, Radio or TV station who cares to explain the propaganda behind these devious forms of deception that are thrown in our faces on a daily basis?

    Free speech is something totally different being allowed to distort the truth beyond the recognition of reality.

  70. yesindyref2 says:

    One of the arguments for Scotland is that if Scotland joins as the UK leaves, there’s no enlargement of the EEA – which is what involves changes to the Treaties and a lot of discussion. That’s potentially the smooth back-door route in – the holding house which looks like it is on the cards.

    Just “replace all” UK with Scotland 🙂

  71. Joemcg says:

    Dr Jim-well weirdly I have heard two or three yessers recently say letting us have our own footy and rugby teams was a unionist con to keep the natives quiet!

  72. Cactus says:

    There be a candle, we be the flame, c’mon baby, bring back the hope ‘n’ let’s light her up again.

    The moon is waxing.

  73. Joemcg says:

    Word for today-Fratricide. Ruth has definitely lost the plot.

  74. galamcennalath says:

    Dan Huil says:

    Could an English call to abolish the Scottish parliament be on the cards?

    If we were stupid enough (again) to vote NO in IndyRef2 I would expect it to happen 🙁

  75. Valerie says:

    In case anyone is interested, go to LabourHame to read a bile ridden, liary open letter from Neil Findlay to his ‘friend’ Mike Dailly, our newest recruit.

    Jeez, if that Neil is your friend, you don’t want to be changing your mind about anything – ever. Cos if you do, he’s going to try and take you down in public, in a frothing yooney way.

    Lots of SNP bad in it, but you knew that.

  76. Valerie says:

    Ruth has jumped the shark.

    She is reading the runes and cacking her pants, big time.


  77. Nana says:

    Here’s the labourhame article by Neil Findlay

  78. Iain More says:

    Aye the Trump Journal strikes again. I had stopped buying it even before he had the P&J in his back pocket. Calling it a Tory leaning rag is also being a bit kind to it.

    It was a rabid anti Scottish rag way before Trump got closet control of its editorial policy.

  79. 8 odd hours into EU debate in the mother of all sh@tholes and i think 2 SNP MP`s been called by speaker,

    should walk out en masse,

    trying to embarrass us.

  80. velofello says:

    Consider for a moment that Scotland is a community isolated from the rest of the world community, a sort of Brigadoon. This Scotland would be self-sustaining. Adequate resources of oil, gas energy, food and beverages for its own needs. Indeed this Scotland has surpluses beyond it’s needs of these resources. It has a currency to enable the farmer borrow from the bank to buy the grain that he will ultimately sell to the bakers etc and then be able to pay off his bank loan.

    We are not isolated from the rest of the world and we do have an excess of resources that we could trade, once we assume independence.We will prosper, and we can put an end to the spurious charges placed upon us by our “co-partner”in this damned Union.

    Regrettably we have some people who place their own perceived self-interest, in their short life span, above the interests of the country. And others who are glib but just plain dumb.

    What on earth inspired Ruth Davidson to remark that the building she was in at the Tory party convention was too good for her countrymen and women, who’d steal the contents? The irony, as Westminster by statute, devours our resources.

  81. McBoxheid says:

    I predict the Summer of Discontent will be thought of as tame after the coming summer is over. I predict large demonstrations and rioting in England as the consequences of Brexit start biting after it is announced this Spring, well before it actually occurs.

    It can only get worse when the UK actually leave in 2019

  82. crazycat says:


    I’ve just been informed – as a lot of people will have been – that Parliament will debate the Trump petition on 20 Feb.

    I thought they said that would not be necessary??

  83. Meg merrilees says:

    Scot Finlayson@ 8.51

    Yes gave been listening for hours and you would not know that they are there. Have heard one interjection from Alex Salmond and that’s it.

    The BBC Scotland website headline couldn’t be more ironic if it tried…
    ” SNP MP’s attempt to block brexit bill”

    Ha ha ha .. the chance would be a fine thing!

  84. mike d says:

    Sandycraig 7.24pm the question they should be harangued with is ‘what is it about “Scottish freedom they don’t like.

  85. Meg merrilees says:

    Has Sadiq Khan sold the water cannon that Boris bought?

    Ruth Davidson’s remark tonight and the comments in recent days on this website contemplating violence are worrying.
    That rhetoric should be used to suggest an escalation of things at a a time when N. Ireland is trading on eggshells is totally irresponsible.

    I worry that the demonstrations at Downing street and other places may be ended abruptly if the government thinks it is losing ‘control’. Hence question above…

  86. Nana says:

    I feel for our mps who have to sit in that damned

  87. Tam the Bam. says:

    Richard Arkless MP currently on his feet…only the 3rd SNP MP to be called in over 8hours…disgusting.

  88. Meg merrilees says:

    Richard Arkless refusing to ‘give way’ because he is conscious that he is only the third SNP MP to speak and ‘we have been in here for 10 hours’

  89. Another Union Dividend says:

    Last week’s Edinburgh Uni “The Student” newspaper shows what we are up against trying to educate potential Yes voters.

    It had a half page comment piece on “the NHS” which is all about English NHS but it doesn’t actually say that.

    But with a half page on English Cricket but no coverage of Scottish football,then I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

  90. Meg merrilees says:

    I notice that Ed Vaizey , Cons, who spoke after Richard Arkless did not say the usual,
    ‘it is a privilege to follow on from the Rt. Hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway who spoke so eloquently on the subject.’

    Aye, double standards indeed and no respect is the standard – bar stewards the lot of them!

  91. Tam the Bam. says:

    10hours?…didn’t realise that.I hope Angus protests in the strongest possible way to the powers that be about this.Equal partners….Aye right!

  92. Cactus says:

    There be a candle..

    We be da flame.

    Sayin’ again.




  93. yesindyref2 says:

    @Valerie / @Nana
    From Dailly in a btl reply: “I will answer your points, hopefully in Monday’s The Herald.”

  94. sandycraig says:

    mike d 9.16


    Prepare for a bumper SNPBaaaaad from J Hjul tomorrow in the Courier. Last week she never mentioned the SNP once. I think somebody else wrote her column.

  95. Jock McDonnell says:

    This uk single market we keep hearing about, is that the same one Ireland, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India & everybody else left because membership was strictly on London’s terms ?

  96. ScottieDog says:

    yes resources are the point here.

    we constantly hear about skintland in the yoon press, yet anyone having an understanding of fiat currency knows that most money is simply an electronic entry.

    Actually most money in circulation are bank IOUs now anyway – created by banks when they lend.

    Nations having their own sovereign currencies are not money constrained but are limited by the resources they produce and those they can import.

    These are HARD limits. Soft limits are inflation – i.e too much priming of the money pump over and above the productive capacity of the country.

    The above is the reason that Westminster and the UK establishment will fight very dirty to keep us.

  97. joannie says:

    Latest opinion poll in Northern Ireland shows 44% now in favour of a united Ireland, the highest ever. It also shows that support for staying the UK has all but collapsed among Catholics.

    It looks like English nationalism in the shape of Brexit is coming closer to breaking up the UK than the IRA ever did.

  98. Meg merrilees says:

    Tam the Bam

    I didn’t hear it clearly enough so it may have been 8 hours.
    I think they started talking about Brexit at 12.17, so that would make it 9 hours.
    Regardless, there’s been no SNP since 9.25pm now.

  99. archieologist says:

    Hamish 100
    I agree that the Scottish Fishing industry will be sold down the river by the Tories in Brexit. When the UK joined the Common Market they sold out the Scottish fishermen in favour of deals for financiers in the City of London and tory voting farmers. This resulted in the loss of thousands of jobs in the Scottish Fishing Industry, boat building and suppliers. Those Scottish Fishermen who support Brexit are in for a big shock if they think Brexit will turn the clock back to the good old pre EU days.

    Westminster Tories are much more interested in deals for the City of London and car manufacturers in England . Fishing ports such as Peterhead and Mallaig are far away from London and Scottish fishing will again be considered expendable.

    European markets are important for Scottish Fishermen with Scottish fish exports travelling through English ports to Spain , and France .The Spanish are already saying that if a Brexit -UK wants to export fish products to Spain then they will demand continued access to UK waters for EU fishing vessels. And what about all those EU citizens working in Scottish Fish Processing, are the Brexiteers going to kick them out and ban them from working in Scotland?

  100. robertknight says:

    *Scotland was extinguished by the Act of Union

    *The world is flat

    *Freddy Star ate my hamster

    *Robert Maxwell drowned at sea

    *The Yookay will thrive post Brexit

    *Donald Trump is sane

    I could go on…

  101. Meg merrilees says:

    Martin Docherty-Hughes giving it laldy

  102. Ed t head says:

    I stopped getting the p&j during indi ref 1 as I was sick of getting properganda and yesterday’s news, sales must have dropped as the paper costs more and the reporting is rubbish, maybe they want to work for the bbc.

  103. Meg merrilees says:

    10.23 onwards one red-hot SNP MP compulsive listening on the BBC Parliament website.

  104. Meg merrilees says:

    Robert Knight:

    Elvis is alive and working in a chip shop in Ecclefechan

    Not sure if my last post went through – Martin Docherty-Hughes’ speech at 10.22 on BBC Parliament website.

  105. Phronesis says:

    An excellent reference website on all things to do with land reform and adopting an annual ground rent in Scotland.

    ‘We urge a system of Annual Ground Rent to retain these publically -generated values in the community as the principal source of public revenue , as proposed by Adam Smith.
    When AGR is collected instead of deadweight revenue streams like Income Tax and VAT , vast economic losses are avoided’

    ‘The Land Value Tax has the big advantage of stimulating development, and employment associated with development. This will increase the rental value of land but its market price will fall because speculators and land hoarders are discouraged. The ability of young people to afford a house will be greatly improved. The experience of countries like Denmark shows that a revenue system based on the value of land can be made to work and is easily administered with frequent revaluations. A Land Tax has been used previously in Scotland. It was the main source of revenue prior to 1707 and continued for several years afterwards, but was gradually abolished by the landowners in Parliament who changed the tax laws to pass the burden of paying taxes onto working people, so that the barons and lairds could enjoy the unearned rental value of the land. If it is decided that the amount of revenue collected locally should supply more than the 12% currently obtained from Council Tax to improve local democracy and accountability, the revenue from ground rents, what we call Annual Ground Rent (AGR) could be increased and the National Income Tax reduced’

    ‘Under the current fiscal regime, every person living in Scotland is a loser. Existing taxes deprive the population of a huge sum in additional income, because of distortions and disincentives inflicted by the way governments raise revenue. The Income Tax alone deprives Scotland of about £11bn every year. The loss arises from distortions and disincentives created by the way government chooses to raise revenue by taxing wages and salaries. By shifting from the Income Tax to the revenue tool that does not distort the economy – an annual charge on ground rent (AGR — traditionally, but misleadingly, called a ‘land value tax’) everyone gains:
    • as individuals who work (they would cease to pay Income Tax), and
    • as citizens, by using public services funded by revenue from ground rents’

    All those who can should contribute to Scotland’s constitution and lay the foundations of a prosperous, socially just nation- a peaceful dignified evolution and progression of Indyref 1 as Scotland leads the way in participatory democracy and takes its place on the international political scene as an autonomous country.

  106. Joemcg says:

    The latest downfall YouTube skit with Hitler/Theresa going mental about indyref2 is worth a look. Very funny!

  107. ronnie anderson says:

    Am in the cheap seats at the front an laughing like hell, how much is a P & J noo.

  108. Legerwood says:

    Read a few of the posts and noticed several people suggesting that there might be moved to close down/do away with the Scottish Parliament.

    This from the recent Judgement of the UK Supreme Court may put those fears to rest:

    “”149. In the Scotland Act 2016, the recognition of the Sewel Convention occurs alongside the provision in section 1 of that Act. That section, by inserting section 63A into the Scotland Act 1998, makes the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish government a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements, signifies the commitment of the UK Parliament and government to those devolved institutions, and declares that those institutions are not to be abolished except on the basis of a decision of the people of Scotland voting in a referendum. This context supports our view that the purpose of the legislative recognition of the convention…””

  109. Meg merrilees says:

    SDLP Margaret Ritchie making a powerful speech – N. Ireland, Border issues, Good Friday agreement, Constitution issues re consent of the people. Voting against Art 50 triggering.

  110. Tam Jardine says:


    I read Paul Kavanagh’s excellent piece on the EU constitutional affairs committee and watched the footage from yesterday. There is the usual attempt to wring anti Scottish soundbites out of the meeting by the unionist press.

    We learnt little from the Spanish on Scotland: of course if we leave the EU we will have to reapply for membership and his remarks on “back of the queue” are pure baws. He pointedly refused to comment on Scotland voting for indy prior to brexit. He also refused to say what the Spanish government would tell their vast fishing fleet who rely on access to Scottish waters or their fish loving population in the event of Scotland leaving the CFP.

    It was clear that our route to EU membership is absolutely straightforward in comparison to the plight of Gibraltar. Spain told Mr Picardo that the route to leaving the EU single market was through the UK whilst the route to remain in the single market is through Spain. There was ample inconsistency in this hard line, bullying, hectoring approach but regardless of that it is clear Spain see this as a great opportunity to settle their territorial dispute.

    For Senor Esteban González Pons Gibraltar and Scotland are out and that is that. Lo siento. No ifs- no buts… brexit means brexit. Except if Gibraltar do what Spain wants then they can stay in and an accommodation can be made. Comprende?

    My view is we in Scotland should do everything we can to stay in the EU. It is not a one way street though and we should neither fall at their feet nor make significant concessions. If we leave as a result of UK and EU intransigence then we need to make our own way whether it be through EFTA or as a completely independent state.

  111. Artyhetty says:

    Not had time to catch up on comments yet.

    O/T but related I think.

    Just wondered the past few times been to the shops, popular supermarkets, seem to have fewer veg than usual. Not been able to buy a courgette in Edinburgh for love nor money, lots shelves are actually empty. Are they just not importing? Is no one in Spain growing courgettes or fresh toms, or are they now at such a price that the shops are not bothering?

    I would say if you have a garden, window box, pocket handkerchief yard, start getting those seeds in soon as you can. My allotment awaits me, it may be even more crucial to being able to afford to eat vegetables from now on.

    Scotland should be growing much more and as a friend said recently, polytunnels will be our friend.
    Fruit trees, apples, gooseberries, brambles, blackcurrants, (yum) grow very well in Scotland. We should be abundant in our own produce, given the amount of land. I know, the soil isn’t great, but it can be made good, and the land is taken by the rich, we need to put that right as soon as we can.

  112. Meg merrilees says:


    They’ve had substantial snow in Italy and very untypical winter weather, flooding etc in Spain, Greece and other Mediterranean countries..Hence fresh veg affected especially courgettes!.

  113. Tam the Bam. says:

    Meg Merrilees:

    You’re probably right Meg..I didn’t catch the beginning of his speech.Dr Phillipa has said in a Tweet that 4 SNP speakers wont be heard till after 11-30 (including herself).

  114. Big Phil says:

    bercow now speaker ?? For the Scots to crush ,I wonder??

  115. Clive Scott says:

    I can remember in the sixties when Labour was in charge and Harold Wilson was PM. As night follows day Labour made a total mess of the economy and there was the inevitable massive devaluation. The bold Harold solemnly looked down the camera lens on BBC TV and said “the pound in your pocket has not been devalued”. Loads of people thought “Oh, that’s all right then”. Just like loads of people have bought into the Union, Brexit and Trump.

  116. crazycat says:

    @ Artyhetty and Meg merilees

    Re: courgettes

    The Guardian (of course!) was very het up a week or so back; its readers were going to be unable to spiralize.

  117. Shug says:

    I have been listening the BBC again tonight – I know I should stop it but they are still banging on about the executive order being anti Muslim. they have clearly not read it. THe BBC is clearly trying wind every one up.

    They are calling Trump for everything on this basis and the question has to be why when the UK government is desperate to get a deal with him. GIven they are the mouthpiece of the government what is going on

    THe SNP must avoid this as I smell a trap

    BRenda can have anyone the likes to tea in my book

  118. @Artyhetty

    since you mention it,can`t get a decent tasty tomato anywhere,

    read somewhere that because of genetic tinkering to get a standard red tomato the scientists have managed to lose texture and flavour,

    like they did with the pear,

    would like to see more allotments,there is a five to eight year wait in Edinburgh for one.

  119. Meg merrilees says:

    Neil Gray speaking now.

  120. ScottishPsyche says:


    Ruth Davidson’s speech.

    Is there a full transcript anywhere? Is she getting into the territory of incitement and hate speech? If Amber Rudd can be reported surely Davidson can. I am so sick of our press giving her a free pass on this stuff. I know the National has a front page on it but the DR seems to be just reporting it with no scrutiny as per usual. No doubt the Herald and Hoot will be giving it wall to wall coverage.

    If columnists go with this line are they colluding? The Express and Mail have crossed the decency line many times but there must be a point they can be challenged legally?

    I am seriously worried that her malevolent stirring will incite the loyalist knuckle draggers to actual violence.

  121. Big Phil says:

    Wot did i say!!! Feckin arsehole.

  122. ScottishPsyche says:

    Thank you Nana.

  123. Meg merrilees says:

    How can NO deal be better than a bad deal… who would we trade with if there is NO deal?

  124. Meg merrilees says:

    Richard Drax at it agin… trying to waste valuable debating time talking rubbish. Knows the SNP are speaking after him and delaying as much as he can.

    Bercow has now limited speeches to only 4 minutes each.


  125. ScottishPsyche says:

    Hmm, Davidson’s speech quite unpleasant but carefully worded.

    She won’t like it that the next anti Trump demonstration is assembling at Tory party HQ in Edinburgh on Feb 11th.

  126. Cactus says:

    “Keep on pushing, pushin’.. push the sky away.”

    Light a fire..

    Ra morra, today and yesterday.

    Welcome 2017 newbies.

  127. Cactus says:

    Love Scotland.

  128. James Barr Gardner says:

    Turing Bill tory version all over news media no mention of John Nicolson SNP who put the bill forward as a private members bill with cross party assurances, only to be back stabbed by tories who only wanted it for dead folk.

    Moral of the story is never trust a Tory (of any colour), hopefully by now most folk in Scotland know that to be a proven fact, just as the infamous Vow to be a proven lie.

    Hi but folks a lie in politics is not really a lie, RH Alistair MP proves that! Naw it proves that the Westminster elite are proven liars and will damage and denigrate Scots and Scotland to line their own coffers, greedy,lying,barstewards one and all!

  129. Robert Peffers says:

    Let’s just face it the P&J obviously imagines their readership mainly consists of morons. Now I’m not implying that Scottish farmers, as a breed, are morons.

    Just those ones daft enough to pay for a load of brain numbing, “Alternative Facts”, in a newspaper.

    As my wee pal says every time I mention Independence, “Are we there yet”. I call him my wee pal – he’s over 6’6″ and around 18stone.

    A bit like the proverbial brick built outhouse.

  130. Meg merrilees says:

    Roger Mullin just publicly thanked Jacob Rees-Mogg for doing more for Scottish Independence than anyone else today.

  131. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks Nana. From Davidson’s speech:

    The big change is the drop in the number of people who want that issue put to the test – barely a quarter say they want another early referendum, down from over 40% in the summer of last year.

    So she’s still lyiing. The figure is 49% (49.46%) from the poll she’s quoting.

  132. heedtracker says:

    NewsUKUK Politics
    Public rejects Theresa May’s ‘take-it-or-leave-it’ threat to leave the EU with no deal
    Poll finds most people want the Prime Minister to go back and negotiate a better agreement with the EU if Parliament rejects her Brexit terms, rather than walk away with ‘no deal’

    Only 34 per cent of people said they wanted too leave the EU with no deal.

    Independent, no wonder, its buyers remorse in England.

    Biggest tory fcuk up since the last one. If we had a media that wasnt so corrupt, they’d being apeshit.

  133. heedtracker says:

    Only 34 per cent of people said they wanted too leave the EU with no deal?

    Only 34 per cent of people said they wanted to leave the EU with no deal?

    Weird typo in that Independent thing too.

    “Dominic Grieve, the Conservative former Attorney General, insisted it must take place before the European Parliament votes, as he warned that Britain would pay a heavy price for Brexit.

    “I think we have made a grave error and I think it is one that will become more and more apparent with the passage of time,” Mr Grieve told ministers.”

    Our shop’s jumped in price and petrol’s shot up a lot too/to.

  134. schrodingers cat says:

    most important comments on this thread are from

    I implore you to read them, these are the issues that indyref2 will be fought over
    before you know your enemy, know your friends. if wossers cannt get their heads round these concepts, difficult yes, but not impossible, we are fucked, I would ask stu to run an article about this very issue, would you write it dads? maybe macart could help you write it?

    example, what is wrong with this comment ?

    archieologist says:
    31 January, 2017 at 10:21 pm

    And what about all those EU citizens working in Scottish Fish Processing, are the Brexiteers going to kick them out and ban them from working in Scotland?

  135. Cactus says:

    “Push the tories away”

    Does that gel ok?

    Into my arms..

  136. Lenny Hartley says:

    Meg merrilees she stated if no deal then UK would go to low tax economy, we have already got the low wages, low benefits etc so big race to bottom, presumable if no deal trade defaults to WTO rules.

  137. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Clive Scott @ 23:06,

    I remember that piece of theatre very well. Avuncular, reassuring, “nothing to worry about folks, move along there”, etc., etc.

    But Wilson knew he was fibbing, and the real financial consequences arrived for all to discover for themselves before very long.

    Just like Brexit will do to us now, if we don’t make the effort to escape it in time.

  138. Cactus says:

    We are one..

    There are many of us.

    We are SO cool.


  139. schrodingers cat says:

    Im not an economist, so i cant make grandoise statements about the future impact of brexit

    what I do know is, if I am campaigning for scottish indy while at the same time the u economy is tanking

    it makes arguing for a yes easier

    the no bt unionists will be foisted by their own petard

    am I hoping for armageddon? yes and no. No because I dont wish bad things to happen to anyone, even the hard nos. but yes, because it helps the yes to win

    to that end, we must go back to cif and point out every announcement of doom from every company that decides to up sticks and leave the uk

    this is our yes offensive, start asking the media why if britain is so great, why is everyone leaving?

    sound bite………..little britain, use it as often as you can fols

  140. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 31 January, 2017 at 7:09 pm:

    “I would really like to know what percentage with cross The Border then proceeds beyond England.”

    But don’t forget, galamcennalath, that such as ASDA, TESCO, Sommerfield and Morrisoms will be getting Scottish Farm Produce, processing it and we all see their delivery vehicles travelling up and down the main drags between England and Scotland delivering the processed stuff to their retail outlets for us to buy.

    And they often have the cheek to charge more for it in Scotland as they claim the transport charges are higher for Scotland.

  141. schrodingers cat says:

    Cactus says:
    1 February, 2017 at 12:12 am

    We are one..

    There are many of us.

    We are SO cool.


    ol’ cucumber heid, that’s me 🙂

  142. Cactus says:

    Good mornin’ February.

    One to go.

  143. Meg merrilees says:

    This link is Ken Clarke’s speech in the Brexit debate.
    It’s a good speech and worth a listen, especially as he is voting against triggering Article 50 but the best value is gained from looking at the faces of his Conservative colleagues as he compares T May’s plans to a scenario from Alice in Wonderland.
    Vintage Clarke!

  144. Meg merrilees says:

    Re Union Flag on things:

    Noticed today, Marks and Spencer are now selling greetings cards with the Union Flag on the wrapping, styling them ‘British Cards’.

  145. manandboy says:

    Read the speech delivered by Ruth Davidson and linked to by Nana above. It had more holes in it than a loofa, and held as much water. I must confess I have never heard Ruth Davidson speak at this level before which makes me wonder who helped her with the composition.

    Sometimes it is possible to reduce a lengthy speech to a few words, and this one by RD could be reduced to the words ‘I am terrified of Independence – my whole future depends on the Union with mega rich Scotland’.

    Project Fear was fear projected. The whole of Unionist GB is absolutely terrified of Scottish Independence. Which tells us that their whole way of life, including all their political and economic institutions, depends on Scotland’s bounteous revenues, which even Scotland itself is not fully aware of. Because it has been kept secret.

    I remember in September 2014, walking alongside the large contingent of the London Labour party, of Our Imperial Masters fame, when they came to Glasgow by train. They walked up Buchanan St and it was there I overheard a brief conversation between two of them. The first asked the man walking by her side, ‘what will happen if Yes wins’. He replied, ‘If Yes wins,it’s all over’. She said ,’What do you mean’. And he said ‘Everything – finished.’

    Conversations like that never make it into Unionist speeches, for the same reason that Unionists don’t shoot themselves standing in front of a microphone. Ruth Davidson will never tell the truth as she knows it. Because if she did, it would be all over and Scotland would vote for Independence at the first opportunity..

  146. Capella says:

    Welcome to Bride’s Day. First day of Spring:

    On Imbolc Eve, Brigid was said to visit virtuous households and bless the inhabitants. As Brigid represented the light half of the year, and the power that will bring people from the dark season of winter into spring, her presence was very important at this time of year.

  147. Cactus says:

    Aweright SC, we’re awe doin’ good bro 😉

    C’mon every buddy.

    When yer away fae yer HOME, ye learn some moresome.

    Ye can surf around forever, but ye can’t turn back the tide.

  148. Liam says:

    Good point but just to be a stickler for accuracy here:

    This is “spin” of tornado proportions.

    Even “Walter Mitty” would have been proud of this. Gloppita Gloppita.

    The machine in Walter Mitty went “pocketa-pocketa”. It was the cement mixer in the film How to Murder Your Wife that went “Gloppita Gloppita”

  149. Still Positive says:

    James Barr Gardner @ 11.46

    That is not the same bill John Nicolson brought – his Bill was for it to apply to those still living.

  150. Cactus says:


    “It is only here in Scotland that we pirouette on the head of a pin over patriotism and nationalism. Who else have you ever met who boasted..”

    See The Wee Black Book..

    A new one coming soon..

  151. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 31 January, 2017 at 10:48 pm:

    “Just wondered the past few times been to the shops, popular supermarkets, seem to have fewer veg than usual. Not been able to buy a courgette in Edinburgh for love nor money, lots shelves are actually empty. Are they just not importing? Is no one in Spain growing courgettes or fresh toms, or are they now at such a price that the shops are not bothering?

    Bad weather ruined their crops. Apparently they expect many growers to go out of business altogether.

  152. Still Positive says:

    To all of you who praised my MP, Martin Docherty-Hughes, thank you.

    I have known Martin for almost 25 years and I can confirm he speaks from the heart. He quoted ‘Red Clydesiders’ and he sounded like one – his Dad who is still alive was a coppersmith on the Clyde.

    His sister is Convener of our local SNP Branch.

    We will, no doubt, see his speech all over FB tomorrow in the same way Kenneth Clarke’s was today.

  153. Sandy says:

    Holyrood 2017.

    State of the parties (MSPs):
    First figure constituent, second regional
    SNP: 56 – 4
    Cons: 7 – 24
    Slab: 3 – 21
    Slib: 4 – 1
    Green: 0 – 6

    Bearing in mind that more or less 50% of voters who cast their votes did so for the only registered Scottish party, surely this is as great a synopsis of the feelings of the Scottish electorate. Yet we have unionist members who cannot see past themselves, perhaps Greens excepted.
    As the vast majority of these are also-rans, what right have they to stand up & make sweeping statements that are, in most cases, completely without foundation.
    They do not express the wish of their constituents, they are there to represent themselves & their cabal of associates.
    Are they there to do their best for Scotland. Bull-shit.
    The voting system must be changed. How some of them remain, I fail to understand. Fraser comes to mind amongst others. Chocolate ashtrays, hole in a piss-pot, Square wheels. etc.
    Roll on the next few months.

  154. Ken500 says:

    The UK pays €15Billion euros contribution to the EU. It increases when the £ falls against the Euro. The contribution in sterling becomes a higher percentage more. More £’s have to be paid to buy Euros on the financial exchange. British banks make much of their money (once profit) on the currency exchange. Changing £”s the euros and banks. Fees and commission and lower rates. Putting up red tape and costs for business.

    The €15Billion is a cut rate (pro rata). Compared to a similar rate EU contribution by country size and proportion. The UK gets £5Billion? knocked off. The rebate. The UK are cheapskates and do not pay the rate or by the rules. Cheating. The UK pop 62Million.

    Germany pays twenty five billion euros. Population Eighty million people. Largest country

    France pays Twenty Billion Euros. Population. (Approx). Population Sixty-five Million. France’s pop has fallen 5Million?

    Italy contributes. Twenty Billion Euros. Population?

    Spain. Population. Forty Million. Pays?

    The smaller, poorer countries make less contribution and receive more than they pay in contribution. To help their economies and prevent hardship. The Eu was actually to prevent hardship and starvation in Europe. After WW11 Europe was starving. Many countries were in desperate situations. Their economies devastation. Million had died. Millions were on the brink of starvation. The Marshall plan. Airlifted and brought food and provisions to the most desperate regions. Until food production could start and increase. The start of the EU to end devastating war in Europe, Germany and Japan were not allowed to re-arm. Leading to theses countries, and others, not spending so much money on redundant weapons and investing more in their successful economies.

    The UK EU Contribution all comes back. In farmer CAP payments, Grants, shared Defence costs and access to the nearest, largest market for trade and goods. Free movement and trade ensures prices for goods are kept down. Essential jobs etc are filled by skilled workers and others. Multinational (US) companies tax evade and pay no tax, as required. The EU is taking measures to end this practise in the EU and around the world. The UK Unionist Gov.supports and has set up two thirds of all world tax havens. Thatcher.

    Scotland would greatly benefit from EU grants. Renewables etc. Scotland misses out on EU Grants and investments because of Westminster intransigence and indecision. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments of all countries in the EU. The EU organised an additional payment and Westminster took it and gave it to wealthy farmers from elsewhere. The farming minister, stated, ‘Better together’, in the Committee when he refused to distribute the extra award to Scotland. Despite requests from Scottish MP s from all Parties.

    Scotland has to have an IndyRef before losing all the benefits of EU membership. It already loses Grants and investment from th EU, worth Billions because of Westminster indecision. The Oil sector is taxed, illegally, too highly because of Westminster. Losing Billions and thousands of jobs. There would be near full employment in Scotland without Westminster interference on allocated tax, education and health matters. Westminster cutting NHS/education. Cuts on welfare support. All affecting Scotland’s budget and Block Grant awarded. Scotland has spent years campaigning to bring in minimum pricing because of Westminster indecision and intransigence. To save lives and health costs.

    Westminster Borrowing Billions to subsidise Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident. All accidents waiting to happen. They will be redundant and obsolete before they are finished. A total waste of public money. They should be stopped at any cost. Five hundred Billion. Adding more on to the debt. Increasing loan debt repayments from Scotland on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland.

    The EU has just spent Billions putting a cover on Chernobyl. It will not last 100 years and the waste is still a total hazard. Never being able to be dealt with effectively. The nuclear disaster in Japan. The Tories are the only association in the world who have banned renewables and support nuclear.

    The P and J is owned by a Unionist. Organisation. ‘Oor Willie’ and the Broons’. Mr Thompson, who also controls a Dundee football club. Everyone who buys it is indurectky supporting a rival club. The P and J specialises in nonsense. There are reports the Evening Express and PJ are moving adminstration offices to the grotesque carbuncle. I.e. Muse Development. Costing taxpayers Millions of pounds. To add insult to injuries.

    A commercial, private enterprise being subsidised by council taxpayers funding. Lease arrangement. ACC refused a eighty million Gift to pedestrianise the City. Supported by the majority but built and over priced concrete jungle. The P and J administration will be back where they started in Broad Street. Now shut off from through traffic,, causing even more traffic chaos in the city. The P and J support the dubious Unionist and Green coalition . A leopard never changes its
    spots. ACC has wasted over £340Million pounds. That is just in one City.

    The council trying to sell the City off on the London exchamge and getting into even more debt. While cutting essential services. Cutting social care, no proper total abstinence rehab facilities or counselling, no over night homeless facilities, not enough for nursery, education.. No pothole repairs or essential maintanence. Knifes being brought into schools which the education dept, Police, councillor and MP were informed about. Information relating to a previous violent attack. A whitewash redacted Report. Then the authorities blamed the pupils for withholding information. Information the authority had already been informed about. The P and J the non descript regional paper. Claim to fame. Michael Gove led an industrial protest. On the picket line under a previous administration. The Union banner flying. Times change. The Tines are a’changing right now. The parochial P and J stays the same. Does not keep up with the Times. Supports Golf Developments. The Editor’s wives works there. Sarah Malone. Runs a ‘great’ Trump Development, although a few would disagree. Especially at the next visit. Still supported in the community and in the region by bringing finances, goods, visitors and jobs into the area.

  155. Macart says:

    What’s that? Three, four SNP questions allowed in 10 or 11 eleven hours?

    I see the respect agenda is going well then.

    I’m guessing they are limiting Scottish input into the debate for a specific reason. The government really don’t want that case put forward or more importantly, that constitutional stone turned over on record.

    Heh. 🙂

  156. DerekM says:

    Wow that is a total shocker only a Tory would try and put a spin on something that is a one trick pony.

    Yes do not look to the future Scottish farmers take the tory brown envelope and be forever a fool that thinks the extra money is coming from the tories when it is not it is coming from the EU.

    And it will keep coming all you have to do is vote yes to independence,oh i should mention no indy no EU help.

  157. Nana says:

    Germans were ready to offer Theresa May a deal on freedom of movement, says Nick Clegg

    Banks must plan for ‘hard’ Brexit, PwC report warns

    Congressional Aides Helped Craft Travel Ban, Weren’t Allowed to Tell Their Bosses: Report

    Trump is ‘using UK to destroy the EU’, says socialist leader

  158. Greannach says:

    Hard to believe we used to get this toilet paper delivered every day. Mind you, that stopped about 15 years ago.

  159. Dave Hansell says:

    For anyone interested in an analysis of the negative impact of trade across the UK, even with scenarios involving a trade deal with other blocs/groups of countries, this analysis from the National Institute of Economic and Social affairs makes sobering reading:

    For anyone considering saving this to read for a rainy day it is worth taking the opportunity whilst you can given what is already occurring in academia and research circles. Read and weep:

    Meanwhile, the rush to the exit gathers apace:

    Makes you fell glad to alive eh!

  160. velofello says:

    Many thanks to ben madigan, 10.04 on 31 Jan. reference the Hitler overtake, sometimes a fiction drama tells the message better than just presenting the facts. I hope you have it archived.

  161. What’s etymology Stu? ?

  162. What’s etymology Stu? ?

  163. K1 says:


    Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Acronyms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
    et·y·mol·o·gy (?t??-m?l??-j?)

    n. pl. et·y·mol·o·gies

    1. The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible.

    2. The branch of linguistics that deals with etymologies.
    [Middle English etimologie, from Old French ethimologie, from Medieval Latin ethimologia, from Latin etymologia, from Greek etumologi? : etumon, true sense of a word; see etymon + -logi?, -logy.]

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