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The essence of democracy

Posted on January 05, 2018 by

This is the well-known hardcore Corbynite commentator John McTernan on the radio yesterday, detailing how outrageous it would be for politicians to attempt to block a second referendum on a divisive but important issue.

(Talkback, BBC Radio Ulster, 4 January 2018)
.

No, not THAT kind of second referendum, silly!

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    129 to “The essence of democracy”

    1. Breastplate says:

      The guy’s not got a shred of integrity, pretty much party for the course in the alternate Yooniverse.

    2. jimnarlene says:

      Shitehawk!

    3. Robert Graham says:

      Ah Ha finally tracked Colin Alexander down , I knew his ranting seemed familiar

    4. Fergus Green says:

      If we did not know who the speaker was, how many of us would be agreeing with him?

    5. SandyW says:

      The Oracle! The Oracle has spoken! He can only be right!

    6. “Me and Tony” lolz

    7. Highland Wifie says:

      Heads we win, tails you lose. We’ll decide what merits a second referendum and what doesn’t.
      We don’t do irony.
      Hypocrites.

    8. frogesque says:

      Can’t get it to play on tablet and link wants me to sign in or register for BBC iPlayer. They can fuck right off!

      Let me guess though, fuck you sweaties, well decide what’s good for you.

    9. Bob Mack says:

      If this guy McTernan was your moral compass , then you are going to be lost like those in the Bermuda Triangle.

      He is eminently suited to Labour given he changes his mind as often as Corbyn and turns 180 degrees when it suits.

    10. Muscleguy says:

      Works for me Firefox, just updated, Mac Sierra. I’m even running uMatrix and an ad blocker and didn’t have to finesse anything.

    11. Alex Monaghan says:

      Here’s your problem: “https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/mcternan-radioulster-04jan2018.mp3?_=1”

      Try https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/mcternan-radioulster-04jan2018.mp3?_=1

    12. frogesque says:

      @Mat: 3.34.

      Your link in your tweet to WoS worked, thanks.

      So perfectly democratic for a debate and popular vote on Brexit details as long as everything is done through Westminster.

      Scotland decided to Remain but we can go shuffle. Thus spake Zarathustra.

    13. vegan god says:

      I’ll be kind.. totally insightless

    14. Morgatron says:

      Well how would have guessed that. Its great when they dont get the result their looking for, but we can only whisper of a second vote on our referendum,though we are labelled divisive. Hes a walking clusterfuck of a man and his political predictions have enough accuracy to compare him to David Icke.

    15. Morgatron says:

      Well who would have guessed that. Its great when they dont get the result their looking for, but we can only whisper of a second vote on our referendum,though we are labelled divisive. Hes a walking clusterfuck of a man and his political predictions have enough accuracy to compare him to David Icke.

    16. Donald MacKenzie says:

      “We’ve just got to shut up whilst we watch the country being careered over a precipice”

      That is indeed the most undemocratic thing for our country, John. Couldn’t agree with you more my son!

    17. bobajock says:

      ROFL – bare faced hypocrisy of the highest order.

    18. HandandShrimp says:

      My brain imploded when he declared himself a Corbynite a while back.

      Personally I think John views Momentum as entryism so he entered Momentum as a kind of double bluff…or something else.

    19. geeo says:

      Foot in Mouth disease outbreak alert…!!

      Someone best cordon off McTeirnan for the sake of the union…har de har..!!

      The gift that keeps giving…every time !

    20. yesindyref2 says:

      Double standards.

    21. nairnkev says:

      I could never of predicted he’d be a fanny.

    22. Bob Mack says:

      Never fails to amaze me how we have a General Election every five years to enable the public to back the incumbent government or pick a new one which may or may not be more radical.
      However when it comes to a referendum then that seems to last for a generation or more, and obviously deprives people of the same frequency of choice , even if they want it.

      How about general elections picking a government for a generation instead?

    23. heedtracker says:

      Ain’t no hypocrite like a red tory hypocrite. John Humphries asked/told Blair this week, that there would be civil unrest if good olde teamGB didn’t Leave. Think he meant England though.

      Bottom line, its the red tory Lab crew, squeezing JC’s EU nuts very hard now, because that guy hasnt got a clue what to do with Brexit.

    24. Auld Rock says:

      What a GOBSHITE. Didn’t he used to be a DEVOUT BLAIRITE??

    25. Andy-B says:

      What a hypocritical little shit McTernan is, Michael Wollf, should write a book exposing this dummy.

    26. yesindyref2 says:

      What’s actually distressing is that quite a few of the biggest aresholes in politics and media are Scottish. Maybe I just notice them more?

    27. Marcia says:

      Politicians with selective referendum memory. He lost the Euro one so it must be reversed. He was on the winning side in 2014 so to him it should not be reversed. It will be.

    28. Dr Jim says:

      Democracy is what I say it is!

      The code of all Unionists

    29. Street Andrew says:

      Spot on. What the man says is quite right – now let’s see if we can’t roll out that logic a little bit further.

      Have we forgotten already, so close to Christmas, that Christmastide is not yet done and the wise men’s arrival is still to look forward to, that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander ?

      We are going to miss Kezia. She articulated Labour ‘thinking’ without seeming the least bit fazed by its constant reversals and inherent contradictions.

    30. Capella says:

      His case rests on the fact that people were misled about the customs union and single market. So they are entitled to a second vote soon.

      I would agree with that. We were misled about many things too, including membership of the EU. We are entitled to another vote soon too.

    31. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Well that’s okay then, he is pro democracy up for continued debate and further referendum if required.

      My sort of chap, nice to see folk drifting over to yes makes sense.

    32. Maurice says:

      No doubt he will need to be reminded of this at some time in the future.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      FIRST POINT

      They never talk about another Leave / Remain EU referendum, do they?

      He talks about ‘signing off deal’ vote? There are two ways a deal can be rejected – no deal, we’re leaving the EU anyway, OR no deal, we must stay in the EU.

      WM has a horrendous record of referendums recently. They should ALWAYS be a choice of status quo versus proposed changes.

      The reason why we are in this mess is because Cameron called a vote on ‘his deal’ versus an unplanned leave of some unknown manner. He also fcked up IndyRef1 by changing it into undefined DevoSuperFedMax versus Indy.

      In both cases the undefined option won and nothing was really settled even in the short term.

      If they have another EURef with a clear deal versus anything other than status quo (remain in EU), it will all go hideously wrong. Again.

      POINT TWO

      This isn’t the first time we have heard arguments from arch Unionists that democractic opinion is fluid and evolving continually, and no vote should preclude a future vote.

      Then they have the cheek, audacity, and hypocrisy to argue Scotland is different.

      Still look on the bright side, such behaviour can be highlighted and used against them until Indy is achieved.

    34. Dan Huil says:

      From The National today:

      “And, in an argument that will not go unnoticed by the SNP leadership, Blair also said that calling for a second [EU] vote was not undemocratic. He said he “accepted entirely” the result of the [EU] referendum but insisted “democracy doesn’t just stop on one day”.”

      Britnat hypocrisy never fails to disgust.

    35. Vestas says:

      Who pays the guy is what I want to know.

      AFAICT he’s despised by everyone bar a tiny section of the Labour party so who’s paying his bills? On a “despised scale” of 1-10 where Blair is at 10, Mcternan is surely at 9.

      Enquiring minds would like to know who funds this nonsense, can’t just be the BBC….

    36. Les Wilson says:

      Stu, maybe you could inform him that we have all heard these comments, and get his explanation exactly what makes Scottish referendums so different from what he actually desires.

    37. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      5 January, 2018 at 4:50 pm
      His case rests on the fact that people were misled about the customs union and single market. So they are entitled to a second vote.

      So all Labour have to do is put Brexit ref2 in their election manifesto. FibDem’s might do. It’s just about the only democratic route for Brexit ref2.

      If Lab do have a ref2 EU pledge next GE and they win, that’s the mandate.

      But clearly Lab under JC just do not want to talke the risk, so that’s that. Look at how FibDem vote did nothing last time offering ref2.

      Shane really, Willie Rennia trying not to look like a mad hypocrite, just like Macternan here was funny.

    38. ronnie anderson says:

      Excuse me Mr Mc Ternan the rules of broadcasting have changed , would you please blaw into this wee straw before you get anywhere near our mike .

    39. CameronB Brodie says:

      Took me a while to figure out how to work this page, doh! 🙂

      Man adopts left-wing populism in order to advance a right-wing agenda. Is there not historical presidency of similar?

      @Duncan Hothersall & John McTernan
      You guys are aware that Scotland and England have separate histories and cultures that predate 1707, as a result of being two nations and not ‘One Nation’? Do you really countenance British nationalism privileging narrow, English, utilitarian culture, over Scotland’s political will (see Brexit, etc.)? Do you really understand the principle of universal human rights?

      Kissing Cousins: Nationalism and Realism

      SHARED ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT POLITICS

      Nationalism and realism are particularistic theories at their most basic level. They both assume that the key actors in the world are autonomous units that interact with each other as a matter of course. Because those interactions can be either beneficial or harmful, the units pay careful attention to how the behavior of the other units affects their own interests. Each unit has the right as well as the responsibility to pursue its own interests, even if it is done at the expense of the other units’ interests. This privileging of one’s own welfare sometimes leads the units to attempt to harm or even destroy other units.

      This selfish behavior notwithstanding, the units are not hostile toward each other in all instances and they certainly are not in a constant state of war. In fact, they sometimes cooperate with each other. Nevertheless, every unit knows that there is always the possibility that another unit will threaten it. Because the possibility of conflict is always present, the units worry about their survival, even when there is no imminent threat. Survival is not the only goal for the units, of course, but it must be their highest goal for the obvious reason that if a unit does not survive, it cannot pursue those other goals. Both realists and most theorists of nationalism also believe that there is little that the units can do to change or transcend this world.

      The central unit of analysis for realism is the state, which is the most powerful political institution in the world. In contrast, the nation is the main unit of analysis for nationalism. Nations are intensely political actors for sure, but they must operate through specific political institutions to acquire and exercise power. The key institution for nations is the state, because it is so powerful relative to other political institutions. Indeed, their survival is inextricably bound up with the state, which is why each nation would prefer to have its own nation-state. In short, the state is of fundamental importance for nationalism as well as realism. Both theories treat the state as the key political actor on the planet.

      Particularistic theories like nationalism and realism stand in marked contrast to universalistic theories. The latter family – which includes both liberalism and Marxism – emphasizes that the independent units that populate the world should be seriously concerned about the welfare of the other units, and not privilege their own interests over the interests of others. The units, in other words, should act primarily as if they are an integral part of a larger community, not as self-interested actors maximizing their own utility….

      http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/kissingcousins.pdf

    40. Geoff Huijer says:

      I really find it astonishing that the media consider this man’s opinion on anything worth asking or publishing.

      He has proven to be so wrong about so many things on so many occasions that it only serves to show how pathetic the media are.

    41. Thepnr says:

      Mystic McTernan is well on his way to being seen as a Demi-God for the Independence supporters.

      He’s that thick, that he thinks because anything he says is written in an English paper or heard on English TV or radio that the Scots won’t pick up on it. Dumbass.

      He’s a failed blowhard balloon Blairite political mouthpiece that gets everything wrong and changes his spots when it suits his next wage packet. He’s a joke and a political liability to whoever is paying him.

    42. Ruby says:

      Les Wilson says:
      5 January, 2018 at 5:03 pm
      Stu, maybe you could inform him that we have all heard these comments, and get his explanation exactly what makes Scottish referendums so different from what he actually desires.

      Ruby replies
      http://archive.is/7045L
      http://archive.is/DMtXU

      You could perhaps find out if you can be bothered reading these articles.

      Basically he’s saying the promise has ‘once in a lifetime/generation’ and the Scottish people do not want a 2nd IndyRef and Nicola Sturgeon definitely doesn’t want one.

    43. Petra says:

      Looks as though we’ve just been given the green light from a Mr McTernan (who’s that?).

      Let’s go for it folks.

    44. Ruby says:

      Thepnr says:

      He’s that thick, that he thinks because anything he says is written in an English paper or heard on English TV

      Ruby replies

      Should be interesting to see how the readers & viewers in England respond to his comment that ‘Englishness is fictitious’.

    45. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ruby [about McTiernan] “and the Scottish people do not want a 2nd IndyRef and Nicola Sturgeon definitely doesn’t want one

      Yes, there are dumb Unionists still keep insisting that, as though the percentage of Sootland’s people (about 0.000001%) who are total numbnuts including themselves will believe them. It’s funny 🙂

    46. galamcennalath says:

      If English voters were misled then that is an issue which needs dealt with by another vote.

      If Scottish voters are misled that that’s just tough, because Scots should do as they are telt.

      Union of equals? No evidence it is!

    47. call me dave says:

      FGS!

      John ‘NO..Stradamus’ McTernan. 🙂 A Bletherskite!

      PS:

      John Beattie: and Alyson Pollock (telling it how it is)

      Posted near the end of the last thread for those that haven’t heard it.

      SNHS interview here. Go to 50:15 on time scale.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09kfhfn

    48. galamcennalath says:

      All this Brexit validity talk has implications for IndyRef2.

      At some point the SG / SNP will stop being reasonable over Brexit. They will stop saying that a special deal should be made for Scotland. They will stop saying the best option is the whole UK in the EU single market.

      The timing for that will be chosen by the Tories because a point will be reached where it is unambiguously clear Brexit will be hard. How hard doesn’t matter because it will be too hard for Scotland.

      Then things will definitely get interesting!

      My point in saying this is that Indy campaigning is likely to be concurrent with a great deal of argy-bargy at a UK level. In all possibility the Tories will be trying to push through Brexit while opinion is still spilt (at a UK level) and fractious. There will be continued calls for EURef2.

      It is to the distinct advantage of YES2 that WM will be in no position to mount as strong a counter campaign given their own Brexit squabbling over an uncertain UK future.

      The two constitutional crisis will inevitably feed off one another.

      The Tories will be in the midst of the perfect storm, from our perspective.

    49. Macart says:

      OH…MY…GOD!

      LOLZMAGEDDON 😀

      That snippit should come back to haunt him.

    50. Bob Mack says:

      Just heard electoral commission investigating SIU donations and when they were made. Stay tuned.

    51. Albaman says:

      Rev,
      Do you know who the perfect partner for McTernan is ? DONALD TRUMP, God what a pairing !!.
      (Wheeest now, be very careful of jesting, you know what can happen!)

    52. Ruby says:

      http://archive.is/XtJVu

      Questions raised over Scotland In Union’s election time donations

      Warning it’s a Tom Gordon article.

    53. geeo says:

      Oh look…after being left up the creek due to the SNP budget increase for public sector workers, labour have persuaded their pet unions to demand even more !!

      If teachers strike, rescind their pay offer and blame the unions/labour.

    54. Ruby says:

      I can never figure out why some comments don’t show. Are they being censored.

      My last comments was just an archive link to article about Scotland in Union from the Herald.

      ‘Questions raised over Scotland In Union’s election time donations’

    55. Ruby says:

      I wish there was an edit/delete facility. Ignore last comment.

    56. Ruby says:

      That controversial blogger must be as shrivelled as an old prune what with spending so much time in the bath!

      I think I might have to send him some Coconut Oil. Adding sugar makes it into a yummy skin scrub which is edible and makes a nice snack should you get hungry while in the bath.

    57. mogabee says:

      His faux outrage is fecking hilarious.

      So he’s now trawling the stations to further Tony’s latest ‘honest’ proposals?

      Just how low can he go… 😀

    58. galamcennalath says:

      SiU, Herald …

      ” safari lodges in Africa, skiing chalets in France and Switzerland, a polo festival in India, and a plethora of hunting, shooting and fishing events “

      Not yer usual fund raiser, then!

      You have thought they might have had the wit to at least prentend to be ‘of the people’ rather than a rich landowners’ pressure group.

      ” In addition, the data records seven donations of £7499, just £1 pound below the threshold for registration with the Electoral Commission, suggesting attempts to avoid publicity. “

      I hope the EC check that these came from different people, and not someone doing it on consecutive days, or the like!?

    59. Tinto Chiel says:

      If you didn’t know it was McTernan speaking, you could quite happily nod your head to his “democracy is a process, not a one-off event” message. Alastair Campbell, another bletherskite (word of the day)/moral void and utter chancer uses the same arguments very articulately when interviewed about Brexit.

      Their utter hypocrisy when opposing another Scottish referendum is to be expected from a party which lost what vision and integrity it had by the late 50s.

      geeo: I wouldn’t worry about teachers voting for strike action. I doubt that will happen. A couple of days’ strike would wipe-out any likely pay increase and they’re not that stupid.

      It’s strange BLiS______d EIS types haven’t caused the SG more problems, particularly with the implementation of the flawed Curriculum for Excellence (assessment needs complete reform), but then it was a Labour creation. Larry Flanagan normally has the presence of the invisible man so his actions now could be explained as getting the red light from the Yoons to put the boot in. I noticed the Daily Heil was quite exultant today about the possibility of strike action (irony bypass) so it could all be coordinated.

      Constant attacks on the Scottish NHS, the police and education are necessary if the SNP are to lose their majority at the next Holyrood elections.

      What a pathetic, twisted wee world is Yoonworld.

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh good grief I hope the Rev didn’t follow my suggestion of changing by deed poll to “Controversial Blogger Stuart Campbell”, he’d now need to change to “Ccontroversial Bath-based Blogger Stuart Campbell”.

      Shocking, frankly.

    61. velofello says:

      A good journalist would then have asked “Is that your view on a second referendum on Scotland leaving the Union with England?”.

      Vestas muses, “who’s pays the guy is what I want to know”.There may well be more than one SUI style unit around paying out lickspittles.

    62. Gary45% says:

      John McTernan, the first recipient of the new 2018 award for being a TOTAL TRUMP.

    63. The media keep bringing in these reptiles Blair Mcternan Campbell Clegg Cable etc., to try to prove their agenda when most if not all of them are Proven Liarsj ordinary decent people want nothing to do with them but then the media do not represent ordinary people I mean how many people are in their graves now because of Tony Blairs lies what decent person would want to listen to anything he has to say ??? He should be in jail for mass murder not on the media it would make you puke

    64. ronnie anderson says:

      Edinburgh Sherriff Court 8th Jan .

      24 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2016-031885 ED16000639 Crowe
      25 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2016-035429 ED16005049 Crowe
      26 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-043129 ED16021751 Crowe
      27 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-076716 ED17010350 Crowe
      28 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-085423 ED17012074 Crowe
      29 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-118245 ED17015673 Court 4
      30 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-104538 ED17016521 Crowe
      31 Stuart CAMPBELL SCS/2017-116832 ED17018625 Crowe

      The Bbc will be all over this , Sheeesh don’t tell them LoL .

    65. English NHS getting monstered by state run BBC and MSM,

      is this part of plan to selling it off,

      run it down,constantly criticise it,make it look like it is failing,

      so the English citizens might be slightly more amenable when they come to selling it off bit by bit,

      and Gov/Tory/Labour billionaire friends can asset strip and be paid millions in subsidies by Gov, (Virgin Rail)

      they have done the same with rail,Post Office,civil service.

    66. winifred mccartney says:

      Blair one day and McTernan the next two leeches feeding off one another and we already know whatever happens will be the opposite of what McTernan says.

      I am sure this will come back to haunt both of them and it could not happen to a nicer pair.

    67. Bill Hume says:

      Now that….is a keeper. To be kept FOREVER. (and used when required).

    68. ronnie andersonr says:

      Scot Finlayson That’s the way Tory system works, financial cuts , they put willing place men/women into positions to cause damage then once the system can’t cope the privatisation under the guise of alleviating problems begins ,

      It won’t effect Politicians the Taxpayers pay for their private health insurance .

    69. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I have no idea what McTernan is currently doing to keep the wolf from his door, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s only too happy to air anything out of his Unionist ragbag, gratis and for just a few seconds back in the precious limelight. Hardly surprising either he’s a WM fanboy, though, since he’s parasitised off it for years.

      What I find much more interesting is just how easy it is for a total has-been like McTernan to continue to be airing his views courtesy of the BBC.

      You don’t exactly see people like Paul Kavanagh who have real currency in the indy movement getting equivalent exposure at all. Correction: getting any exposure at all. Even somebody like Nicola struggles to get a say, in fact.

      Obviously none nearly as significant as NostraTernan…

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, No stradamus. I read that as No stradivarius, as in no great on the fiddle.

    71. Robert Peffers says:

      @Auld Rock says: 5 January, 2018 at 4:33 pm:

      “Didn’t he used to be a DEVOUT BLAIRITE??”

      Naw! Auld Rock, you misheard him. He’s a devout Mairite. He’ll say anything you like if you pay him mair than anyone else.

    72. Calum McKay says:

      Scot Finlayson says: 5 January, 2018 at 7:50 pm

      “English NHS getting monstered by state run BBC and MSM, is this part of plan to selling it off,”

      Yes!

      They have made their move, this is also a signal to US firms to prepare their tender bids.

      Imagine being elderly in England at this time, they must be scared witless that they break a leg or catch flu.

      There are no lows a tory won’t stoop to. I wonder if Fox is behind this, May and Hunt look completly disinterested.

      As for McTernan, Jim’ll fix it and Hiliary is a shoe in!

    73. colin alexander says:

      If there is a second WM vote on Brexit, the SNP should abstain. As ANY Brexit terms are unacceptable.

      The sovereign people of Scotland already voted Remain. That vote was ignored by the UK Govt, so the SNP should boycott everything to do with it.

      I know it could be argued, as Scotland voted Remain, then the SNP should vote to try and prevent Brexit.

      However, if the SNP take part and the winning vote approved Brexit, then the UK Govt would use the SNP’s participation as proof the SNP approved of the Brexit vote and would say it’s just sour grapes that the SNP were on the losing side.

      Instead the SNP should be taking the UK and EU to court to force the UK and EU to prove in court that Scotland can be dragged out the EU against her Scotland’s democratically expressed will to Remain.

    74. Andrew Gordon says:

      O/T
      Sorry to go off topic but just called BBC to enquire why on a Friday night at peak time viewing on BBC 1 Scotland we have live English football, wtf.
      Got through to BBC, Capita answered the phone who seem to be the all encompassing company for any business who wishes to hide and not interact with its customers.
      Was assured my complaint would be heard and responded too, that will never happen.
      Why is a public funded company accountable to no one, final straw license revoked!!!
      Capita advise government, military , broadcasting and any other shady operation that wishes to give a glaze to its turds,
      The board of Capita consists of lords and ladies and the usual smatering of other useless
      ” business aluminaries ” it would be nice for once to actually complain and get a result, again never going to happen. frustrated as f***k

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Duncan Hothersall & John McTernan
      I don’t think either of you guys are dim, its just your interpretation of reality appears to be grounded in ideology you do not fully comprehend. Still, it takes a certain ego-driven type of character to articulate such a forceful “anti-emancipation” positions as yourselves, specifically, one that leans towards the authoritarian reactionary.

      NATIONALISM, ETHNICITY AND DEMOCRACY:
      CONTEMPORARY MANIFESTATIONS

      The subject of nationalism is extremely complex, not the least because of the many different sources and manifestations of the phenomenon. This paper will deal essentially with certain contemporary forms of nationalism which have emerged or intensified in Europe and the former Soviet Union during the 1990s. In order to place this discussion in perspective, a brief background of the historical experience is provided at the outset as well as a consideration of some of the basic concepts relating to this phenomenon.

      As the ensuing discussion will show, it is almost impossible to come up with a uniform definition of nationalism. In its historical context, it is an ideological movement aimed at attaining and maintaining the identity, unity (through social cohesion) and autonomy (through national self-determination) of a “nation,” or a peoples united under a “national” banner (Smith, 1991). In other words, it is the most potent ideology in nation state building and consolidation. However, as we will seek to illustrate, nationalism, particularly in the contemporary era, has also been a vehicle for disaffected ethnic or cultural communities to voice their dissatisfaction with the status quo. The sources of discontent may be related to a variety of factors such as denial of cultural identity, political discrimination, repression, or economic deprivation. In these cases, it is a movement of minority groups which springs up in reaction to the policies or performance of the central state. At other times, it is a counter-reaction, either on the part of the political authorities, or of threatened social groups, in response to the political authorities, and therefore embodies different objectives. But in most cases, the central state, whether directly or indirectly, plays a key role in manipulating or being the target of nationalist sentiments.

      Hence, in this paper, nationalism has a broad meaning ranging from being the defining ideology of political movements seeking some form of autonomy or independent statehood; of groups striving to achieve or to improve their cultural, political, social and economic rights within a given state; of protest movements on the part of communities threatened by either state policies or by other social groups; to the core ideology employed by the state to galvanize public support for its policies or to reaffirm its legitimacy. The typology offered attempts to distinguish between these various contemporary manifestations of nationalist sentiment and discusses their impact on democracy as a means of distinguishing between the progressive and reactionary forms of nationalism.

      http://www.gmu.edu/programs/icar/ijps/vol2_2/pamir.htm

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      @
      Vestas says: 5 January, 2018 at 5:00 pm:

      “Enquiring minds would like to know who funds this nonsense, can’t just be the BBC….”

      It doesn’t take much thought to figure that answer out, Vestas.

      Like the rest of the Labour Party funding it will be the various Trade Union members and the Co-op store and bank, members and the Labour Party Associate members of such as Working Men’s Clubs – most of all three categories don’t even realise that they are being counted as associate Members of the Labour Party when the pay their dues.

    77. galamcennalath says:

      The next three days stories, courtesy of Derek Bateman ….

      Sat 6th – Matheson missing for miners
      Sat 6th – Labour calls for urgent action on teacher pay in the New Year
      Sun 7th – More than 1,000 delayed discharge deaths since 2015
      Mon 8th – More than one in ten Scottish children from families ‘on the financial edge’

      All to plan. SNPBaaad day by day.

      http://derekbateman.scot/2018/01/05/manipulating-the-media/

    78. Clootie says:

      …McTernan is still alive and talking shit…it must be a World record to be so wrong so often!

    79. twathater says:

      Dr Jim says:
      5 January, 2018 at 4:44 pm

      Democracy is what I say it is!

      The code of all Unionists

      Succinct and intuitive Doc if only we could transplant your brain into mcTornarses heid he could then maybe be considered to be less of a twat

      Indy voter ” bbbut John thats all us indy voters want for Scotland as we were also lied to ”

      John ” its not the same thing the UK voted for brexit as a whole so we socialist liebourites demand to be listened to”

      Indy voter ” bbbut John we also demand to be listened to ”

      John ” Fuck off you don’t deserve to be listened to Tony said and he’s the man na na na na na “

    80. heedtracker says:

      galamcennalath says:
      5 January, 2018 at 9:15 pm
      The next three days stories, courtesy of Derek Bateman ….

      Quite a list.

      Stinky olde The Graun went massive with the new SLab nobody’s Xmas message and Scottish teacher strike, they hope. Otherwise, in SNP bad The Graun, Scotland region just does not exist.

      http://archive.is/C7CNt

      Check their photo pick of Sturgeon. Looks like Sevy’s got the post Xmas blues:D

      UKOK hacks like this have to be hopeful they can deliver dear old Colin A’s wish for the end of the SNP. But time is not on their side.

    81. ben madigan says:

      am totally on-topic this evening
      “we hold these truths to be self evident” – enjoy!

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/telling-westminster-whats-what/

    82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Scotland is a nation.

      We, as an a nation, appear to be willing to accept anyone, who wants to become a Scot.

      Why should be so subservient as to allow another nation to tell us who can be Scots? Our time is imminent.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZZVkDVZ0c

    83. mr thms says:

      #Ruby @ 6:32 pm

      http://archive.is/XtJVu

      Questions raised over Scotland In Union’s election time donations

      Warning it’s a Tom Gordon article.

      …………………………………

      The article says it is an ‘Exclusive by Tom Gordon’

      But, is it?

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-request-for-clarification/

    84. Thepnr says:

      @mr thms

      “Exclusive” indeed. The Rev done the exclusive, Mr Gordon merely put it into print.

      Some action at last, read true Scottish news here first, on Wings.

    85. Colin Alexander says:

      It’s not true that the media open up to SLab and the Tories but are closed to the SNP.

      At least a couple of SNPers, it seems, managed to penetrate the political media at Westminster.

      However, there’s no truth in the rumour, that when the Party bosses found out and said we know about it and your position is untenable, the reply was: No, missionary.

    86. Tom Gordon is a paid for establishment hack stooge,his moral compass is, `anything for a buck m`lord`

      Scotland in Union seems to be getting sacrificed/abandoned by Tory/establishment/yoonworld,

      the only reason an establishment hack stooge hack like Gordon is monstering them is cause he has been told to by Tory/establishment/yoonworld,

      nothing to do with the concepts of a ethical,moral investigative journalism.

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Scot Finlayson says

      Scotland in Union seems to be getting sacrificed/abandoned by Tory/establishment/yoonworld

      Aye, someone somewhere decided SiU were more of a liability than an asset!

      If true, it implies someone pulling strings is a tad more savvy than the average loony yoon.

      I suspect they realise they can’t fake grassroots because right wing Brexity British Nationalism has no grass roots in Scotland.

      What we might see (if we watch carefully) is the type of online manipulation deployed on social media for Trump and Leave. Mind you, here we are on WoS (online Indy central) and while we see plenty of topic disruption and attempted opinion bending, but none of it seems at all sophisticated!

    88. Ian Foulds says:

      Ref Ben Madigan article at 9.39pm.

      ‘The UK is a political union which was, and is, driven by England.‘

      Why are we not emphasising that we wish to withdraw from such a union and leave the United Kingdom discussion until we are independent.

      Might not this fact give some naysayers a better understanding of the situation?

    89. louis.b.argyll says:

      Outstanding post Rev. Outstanding website.

      Almost literally funny, if it wasn’t all so serious for many being left behind, in UK England-style Scotland.

      After independence no more sleight-of hand, no more shady right-wing Westminster propagandists in control.

      No more remote-control.

      No more WOLVES in sheeps clothing, providing wool to pull over the eyes,
      of those too lazy to open them enough
      to let light in.

      No more influence for those too proud to admit they didn’t consider their own futures years ago, the future of our communities, the state we’re in.

      Now though, people of all ages are working out who should be trusted and with which strings.

      Looking through older posts and comments on here, shows the audacity of so many career journalists and party stooges.

      See also the sneaking tentacles of influence from the Westminster cabal.

      Witness examples of the Establishment classes and their immoral abuse of their 99% monopoly over media titles AND ALL broadcasting.

      Rising above it IS EASY.

      ‘Work, as though living in the early days of a better nation’ (A.G.)

    90. Allan Stewart says:

      I understand the contradiction because it is him, however, he is right. The idea that we should not seek to stop brexit because of the referendum is a joke. This is a democracy and we are still allowed to voice our opinion and aim to create a political majority in favour of achieving our end of reversing brexit.

    91. Dr Jim says:

      The Pharaohs;

      When the powerful the wealthy and the people of positon tell the ordinary citizen they can’t afford Independence what they mean is THEY can’t afford to lose their wealth power and position so they will spend even more wealth to keep the poor poor and in their position

      The ordinary citizen has none of these things so how can they lose what they never had but by voting FOR self determination there are much greater riches than position and power to be won

      Financial wealth and the promise of it is only ever made by the aforementioned powerful people if the ordinary citizen behaves in the way they are ordered, yet over thousands of years of these promises by the powerful, the ordinary citizen seldom if ever benefits by these promises

      I have noted over many years the powerful wealthy and people of position always profess to know more than the rest of us, always telling the rest of us we are misinformed or misled or uneducated in the way the world works, I have also noted how these people belittle and decry every other culture other than their own and how they rejoice in the suffering of others who are or were conquered by them, but of course it was not they who conquered it was us the ordinary citizen with nothing who did the conquering under the orders of the powerful wealthy and people of position

      So the weapon of these people is and always has been FEAR,
      instill that into a population and you have your victory, however if you can’t instill FEAR then all is lost and the FEAR you tried to instill in others becomes your own

      The Unionist Pharaohs are afraid

    92. heedtracker says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      5 January, 2018 at 10:05 pm
      It’s not true that the media open up to SLab and the Tories but are closed to the SNP.

      At least a couple of SNPers, it seems, managed to penetrate the political media at Westminster.

      Nice smear Colin A. You’re hard at work btl WoS trying to get the SNP out all the time Colin A but, simple and hard question…

      How long do you think it is actually going to take for the English media in Scotland, to get the SNP out of office in Scotland?

      Looks like we are in for a very very SNP bad 2018 English media SNP bad monstering but is it enough to get the SNP out before next Scottish GE, May, 2021, with 2019 full on SNP bad hysteria everyday, like now?

      2 years and 5 months of Severin Carrell, stinky olde The Graun Scotland sez SNP bad and bazinga, Scottish First Minister Leonard nobody?

      Probably not First Minister Colonel Ruth because she’s heading to the bright lights big city:D

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      If human rights are universal, should Scots have their legal identities and economic security, forcibly determined by principles of English constitutional law (see Brexit, etc.)?

      Equality and Human Rights: Key Concepts and Issues
      Working Paper 1

      Jane Mulderrig
      University of Edinburgh

      In recent years equalities and human rights have come to occupy a prominent place on the agenda of policy makers, academics, and organisations in the public, private and voluntary sectors. This is partly a result of the trend towards mainstreaming equality and opportunity across various domains of public life. Increasing interest in the relationship between equalities and human rights in the UK context also stems in part from their incorporation within a single Commission for Equalities and Human Rights. The challenging remit of the Commission is to develop a workable definition of equality fitted to the current socio-economic context, devise appropriate policy instruments, and monitor their implementation. This creates an important role for critical academic inquiry into the problems and possibilities this agenda produces for diverse stakeholders. This paper begins by briefly mapping the intellectual terrain, reviewing some of the most important literature on equality and human rights.

      http://www.docs.hss.ed.ac.uk/education/creid/Projects/15iv_SFC_WP1_Equality_jm.pdf

      Peter Singer – Hegel and Marx
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9swt1vlgjzY

      Human Rights: Philosophy and History – Professor Sir Geoffrey Nice QC
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EBz77dsAmo

    94. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      “The Unionist Pharaohs are a fraud”

      Sorted that for you, great post just needed the finishing touch 🙂

    95. Thepnr says:

      @galamcennalath

      Thanks for the link to the Derek Bateman article “Manipulating the Media” that you posted earlier.

      That is truly an amazing story of how Labour can manipulate the news over the 2 week holiday period at Xmas and New Year with the explicit assistance of the political print journalists and broadcasters in Scotland.

      It clearly shows that the general public all taken for mugs when it comes to their political reporting. It’s a disgrace that Labour can set out a timetable for their press releases to be published whereas you’d be lucky to see a single SNP press release in 3 months being reported.

      It’s not just the media who are being manipulated it’s the Scottish public and it’s a disgrace.

      http://derekbateman.scot/2018/01/05/manipulating-the-media/#comment-105864

    96. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      OT well it’s getting late.

      My favourite thing just now, the forthcoming royal wedding.

      I know you are all excited. I’m sure we can discuss the street party later.

      However we have a slight problem, all those ungrateful homeless people made homeless by the Tories living near the venue of the great event.

      Tory councillor wants the police to do a Spanish on them and get them moved.

      Understandable but here a wee suggestion. TV and press will want access the wedding for photies.

      Why not sell the rights for the photos profits to the homeless who can then get a house with royal cash.

      Great British idea. Gord bless the royals and all they do for us poor wretches .

    97. @louis.b.argyll

      The establishment will still be there after Independence,

      it`s like gravity,unseen/invisible yet controls everything on earth,

      what they can`t stop they infiltrate,take over and control,

      they control our Legal system,higher education system,media system,museums,national trust,they lobby our Government behind our backs,most of our land,charities,….

      Independence is just the beginning of a truly Independent free Scotland.

    98. Effijy says:

      Only the UK Media would interview such a consistent loser
      who has a wonderful knack of joining the defeated party.

      McTernan is so stupid he has no idea that he also holds the completely opposite point of view for Scottish politics.

      I think he has all the skills and talent of Jedward.
      Makes a good living with nothing whatsoever.

    99. Capella says:

      Derek Bateman spells out the collusion of the media with the Westminster hegemony.
      http://derekbateman.scot/2018/01/05/manipulating-the-media/

    100. Hamish100 says:

      Good links from Derek Bateman showing how labour in particular are manipulating the news days in advance -with Trade Union collusion ie EIS and lazy journalists and the brit unionist Tom Gordon having an exclusive article based on “news” several days old.

      In Scotland we have already conquered Time Travel.

    101. Colin Alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      I’m just challenging your assertion.

      You said the media are compliant with the unionists, but it’s all SNP bad by the press.

      But, I think she thought they were quite good. Didn’t read of any complaints anyway.

      “Nice smear” you said. Well, that’s just put me right off my warm milk before bed.

      There is no smear, it all came out in the wash.

      I’m just pointing out there are some political journalists at WM that SNP politicians can find satisfaction with. They may not bend over backwards to please the SNP, but will sometimes get into bed with some nationalists.

      They may not swallow all the SNP MPs have to offer, but at least it seems they also believe Scotland will be independent in the not too distant future.

      I’m not having a go at these politicians for poor judgement. Nobody is perfect.

      Working so far from home, banging the headboard, I mean drum, for Scotland. It must get hard sometimes but, at least they stood up for Scotland at Westminster, as promised in the manifesto.

    102. Colin Alexander says:

      From the Edinburgh Agreement prior to indyref:

      “Ensuring impartiality of broadcasters

      21. The governments agree that it will be important to ensure that broadcast coverage of the Referendum is impartial. Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission will discuss the best way to achieve this.”

      Anyone believe the broadcast coverage of the Referendum was impartial?

      I remember reading, Craig Murray says international observers should be involved, monitoring the media. As this is an essential part of the democratic process.

      Clearly, OFCOM and the Electoral Commission were a waste of space.

    103. Famou15 says:

      Colin Alexander you are just a nasty piece of work.

      I saw what you did there with headboard sorry drum shit. Nasty piece of scum you are. Pretendy good guy . No you are scum.

    104. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      If you get anyone saying Scotland is too poor to have a navy, that all we can afford is some offshore patrol boats and fishery protection vessels, here using NATO’s published estimates as at June 2017 for 2017 spending of its members (basically a country’s budget), is a comparison with Denmark, similar size, higher GDP.

      ————–
      Is Scotland too poor to have 4 frigates and note carefully I said 4 frigates, not 4 T26?

      Denmark estimated budget 2017 = 25,165 krone @0.12 = £3.02 billion. Scotland’s proposed budget in 2013 (not 2017 which would be higher so I’m underestimating) = £2.5 billion. So 83% of Denmark’s budget.

      Denmark has NINE frigates including the Absaloms which can be classed as frigates by armament (check out the spec) and size (6,300 tonnes). With 3 full and 4 light.

      83% of 9 = 7.47 frigates. Count a Large Deck Amphib (LDA) which I choose (would be the flagship), as 1.47 frigates and that’s a total high end vessel cost of 5.47 frigate equivalents for Scotland.

      Saying we can have 4 frigates and an LDA (as well as usual and cheaper OPVs, much cheaper inshore patrol vessels and MCMs) is effectively underestimating our capability by 2 frigates.

      So no, Scotland is not too poor.
      —————–

      Anyone who sneers at Scotland is going to have to go through me, my dander is fair up and flaking all over the place.

    105. cearc says:

      yesindyref2

      Yeh, but I bet wee Denmark doesn’t have 2 admirals per ship like the greatness of brits do!

    106. Colin Alexander says:

      Famou15

      What’s your problem?

      I had a bit of friendly banter with my auld “pal” Heedtracker while discussing journalists with their perceived bias against the SNP.

    107. mr thms says:

      The result of the Scottish referendum is not legally binding. For all we know the country is in the middle of an ‘independent’ Scotland ‘transitional arrangement’. The Scotland Act 2016 gave Holyrood new devolved powers, with more to come. One of these is the power to keep 50% of the VAT raised in Scotland. With powers returning to the UK from the EU, Scotland will also ‘share’ reserved powers. The UK, after it leaves the EU officially in March 2019, can fully devolve VAT, including the power to vary the rate. This arrangement would not have been impossible when the UK was in the EU, but it would be possible during the UK’s ‘transitional arrangements’ with the EU.

    108. Thepnr says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Your asking others what their problem is LOL thanks for the laugh.

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      No doubt most people already know, but there is an outbreak of flu sweeping the UK, including Scotland.

      Apparently this includes “Austrailan flu”, which can cause more severe or prolonged symptoms than normal flu or lead to further illness such as pneumonia.

      So, several hospitals, including Queen Betty’s ( Queen Elizabeth University Hospital in Glasgow) have seen a surge in patients with severe flu symptoms , which has led to pressure on beds available, so operations being cancelled etc.

      That’s why hospitals’ waiting times have increased too at A&E.

    110. Thepnr says:

      This is interesting, I’m not asking that anyone should contribute as it concerns the English NHS and our money is probably best spent here.

      Who would have thought though that the likes of Prof Steven Hawkins with others are planning to take Westminster through the courts to prevent further privatisation of the NHS in England.

      Was a new one for me and they’re doing quite well so far.

      https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/jr4nhs-round2/

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      Some things don’t go away if there’s a public setback, they just go dark.

      http://archive.is/YiKR0

      NHS England is on its way out, it’s not if, just when.

    112. Kangaroo says:

      Just a thought I’ll throw into the mix.

      The UK leaves the EU on 29Mar19
      That means that officially there is NO member of the EU from any of the UK territories.

      Suppose Scotland Applies for EU membership on 30Mar19

      Mmm! Nice one.

    113. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      When you have two such notable figures such as Professor Stephen Hawking and Professor Allyson Pollock crowdfunding to prevent Westminster privatising the English NHS then it’s pretty obvious that there are real issues with the running of the NHS under Hunt and the Tories.

      I wish them every success and am pleased to say that they have reached their target yesterday for stage 2 of the fight where they will go to court.

      Some people will always fight back. Where are the media/BBC?

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I tend to fight the fight, and perhaps specialise in defence a little, doing the forums to fight misinformation, maybe make suggestions, and more recently to post the odd comment about this MMT thing I know you read on bilboeconomics, linked by ScottieDog and Derek Henry. I rarely if ever, say anything about the WHY of Independence, for me that’s up to the individual to decide for themselves. Having said that I’m going to make another cuppa and give it a rare go before ZZZ time. Little Women’s Christmas today, time to treat the wife!

    115. yesindyref2 says:

      Aye right, here we go. Reasons for Independence part YES.

      1). With Independence the SG do have control over the levers, which means Scotland will be run in all ways as most Scots vote for, which is the first time ever for voting, the first time for centuries before votes were given to us plebs. That means that if Scotland wants to cast off neoliberalism, all at once or in stages, it can. Clearly we must have our own currency, and then when the economy needs it, money is created and spent in the economy rather than given to private banks. Denmark now denotes all its debt in its own currency, the Krone, in spite of being a member of the EU, we must do the same.

      And I tend to agree with this full employment idea for many reasons. This would take care of the Doosan Babcock 500 short-term worker layoffs for instance, they would be re-employed on a state “shovel-ready” project, funded as above. That balances state versus private for its ups and down, but to do so you probably really need 2).

      2). A beneficial triangle between business, union and government. Well, UK Gov don’t like unions, even Labour are arns length. And some unions think of themselves as British, not Scottish. No, government should go hand-in-hand with unions, and industry / business can employ more people when needed, the state picks up the slack when not.

      3). Now the negative reason to get the hell out of dodge. Take the NHS in England, its spending has been largely protected and even increased by the Tories. But it’s to reorganise it and make it more attractive for privatisation. 49% privatisation is allowed I think in that 2012 Health Act, even that can be changed by an amendment or a new Act. The Tories are the worse, most of the front bench including the PM are placemen and placewomen, the real power is elsewhere. Labour too had this setup, perhaps to a lesser extent. And it’s not just the NHS, there’s the police, and education – that received a temporary setback but it’s on its way.

      So we really do have to get the hell out of the UK, and before 2021 or so after any EU transition time, because there will be no restraints, no setbacks, no problem with going full steam ahead to sell off the UK. And its people like chattels, belongings.

      There’d be more but hey, that posting was quite long enough, thanks very much!

      Night all, sweet dreams …

    116. Thepnr says:

      Here’s why it’s important that Scotland opposes the Nationalisation of the NHS in England.

      Simple really because it will affect us too, the Barnett formula means that the less spent on “public services” in England would result in a further cut in Scotland’s block grant.

      This is unacceptable to me, we depend on these handouts to run our public services that are devolved to Holyrood, the most important being education and the SNHS. These along with housing are priorities for me. We need that money and it’s rightfully ours.

      No doubt we would hear screaming from the Unionist Red/Blue/Yellow Tories to “use the powers you have already got to mitigate these cuts”. Just as they are doing right now. When the truth is the powers we do have are meaningless.

      The only taxes we could raise to fight these cuts are Income Tax and Council Tax and only the first of them is actually under the control of Holyrood. The only way Scotland can prevent our NHS going down the pan the way it is in England, Wales and N. Ireland is to have all the powers.

      We need control of VAT, Corporation Tax, Excise Duty etc etc etc.

      That means being Independent.

      The only way we can alleviate the misery and untold damage to the sick and disabled is by being Independent.

      The only way we can prevent children and mothers starving, the despaired committing suicide is by being Independent

      The only way we will ever get a government that we voted for in order to enact our beliefs and wishes is by being Independent.

      Next time just vote YES.

    117. Ken500 says:

      Another Tory pretending to be Labour. Or is it a Labour trying to be more Tory. Or is there any difference? Just a lying inconsiderate unionist. Every word he utters is a lie. He gets it wrong every time. These illegal war supporters caused Brexit. They caused the worst migration problems in Europe since 11WW. Killing and maiming millions of people. Bombing the Middle East to bits for Oil etc. They could have just bought it. It would have been cheaper. Created £Trillions of debt. Created more poverty. The UK the most unequal,place in the world. One of the most indebted.

      Allowed £Billions of tax evasion and wasted public money on total financial fraud. They are despicable. Most of them should be in jail. McTernan is unelected and speaks for no one. Certainly not Scotland’. Their behaviour is appalling. So is the BBC. Biased lying reporting in symphony. Wasting £Billions of taxpayers money trying to deceiving the public. They ruin the world economy. Gie’s peace. No one needs or reads the BBC lies. Under Westminster control. Total propaganda..

      It will not be the NHS that is gone. It will be the Tories. They are in complete disarray. They are making a complete and utter mess of the economy. A shambles. Never has there been such a shambles. Unfortunately there has been some. It is the unionist way. The Westminster unionists pycho bastards. Their own description.

      Sycophants. They sython off public money like there is no tomorrow on grotesque projects of no value. Lining their own pockets. Then cut taxes for the wealthiest. Many of whom would like to pay more. They want to pay their share. They have cut funding for NHS/Education and essential services. To ruin the world economy. To make themselves multimillionaires they ruin the whole economy. Enough is never enough for some people. They illegally kill and starve vulnerable people. Most of them should be in jail. Lying crooks. They are a complete and utter disgrace.

      Roll on the next IndyRef soon, which will be won, Scotland will become a better, more equal, fair, happy and prosperous country. Independence in Europe. Like all the other prosperous countries.

      Thank goodness for the SNP standing up for Scotland. Scotland has never had such good governance. Ever in it’s history. Just vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence.

    118. Ken500 says:

      It is better for Scotland to have an IndyRef vote before the Brexit exit. Devolution etc was enshrined by the self determination argued and won in the ECHR. If Scotland is being forced out of the EU against it’s will. It is better to still have EU membership to get support. No immpossible for Independence (in Europe) Just better. If the rest of the Westminster unionists want to cut off their nose to spite there face to try and leave the EU, when the majority in the UK/NI want to stay in. Impossible situation.

    119. Ken500 says:

      Rev Stu. Know you are busy. Busy day still some celebrations. Please get rid of the troll cluttering up the website. Trying to ruin it. Bloody nuisance. To protect it. People will get fed up of it. Thanks.

    120. heedtracker says:

      I had a bit of friendly banter with my auld “pal” Heedtracker while discussing journalists with their perceived bias against the SNP.

      Hopeless Colin A. But again, do you think the massed ranks of sirking beeb, beeb Scotland gimps, UKOK hacks, liggers, professional liars, Macternan style of creepouts etc, can actually get the SNP out by 2021?

      I’d have thought that was a right up your SNP bad alley, open goal for you Colin A.

      Yoons like you are an odd lot Colin A.

      But no, you cant even score that one:D

    121. McBoxheid says:

      That eejit of a man is so hollow, if you hit him with hammers, Rev Stuart, he would ring riing riiing. Sic a whiny wee gobshite! There were parts of that wee spectacle that required slowing down, the faux offence taking was so high frequency. He still thinks people actually believe him.

    122. Dorothy Devine says:

      McBoxheid,maybe he still think folk read him , scrolling on past is best . As for responding , I’m surprised by those that bother as they should know better.

    123. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref2
      Well said. I would also add an item about banking and accounting practices to any Scottish constitution. The austerity drive by the Torres and later Gordon brown handed huge powers over to the city. Since then money has been created by banks mainly to pump up the prices of existing assets e.g. Housing. All this money is created of course at a charge of compound interest.
      Once the housing bubble was all but done, the next pathway for artificial debt based growth was the student loan racket.
      We need financial reforms and regulators, auditors as well as bankers going to prison. I think it was moodies (might be wrong) who just before the financial crisis, gave the American banks triple A status whilst labelling Japan with junk status (the japs of course shrugged their shoulders knowing that the ratings agencies are just neoliberal actors).

      Right now we need to educate people about the economy. The economy is limited by energy and resources not by double entry book keeping – the act of creating money.

      Fixating in the export price of a resource misses the elephant in the room – the fact that you don’t have to import that resource.

    124. louis.b.argyll says:

      Various points being rightly made about existing and promised ‘powers’ to Scotgov etc…

      Thing is, it’s all very well getting/waiting for individual industries and ‘some’ tax controls-

      ..BUT WITHOUT INDEPENDENT CONTROL OF BORROWING, DEFENCE AND RESEARCH BUDGETS, DIPLOMATIC STRATEGIES, AND ALL PUBLIC / UTILITY SPENDING, these ‘powers’ are unable to be used ‘efficiently’.

      Independence OR BUST.

    125. Jack Murphy says:

      Further to some of the comments above re the Media and Broadcasters in Scotland here’s a snapshot of the Daily Express in ENGLAND
      FRONT PAGE Headline:

      ……………………”NHS WARNING:…………………….
      ………………….ICY BLAST CAN KILL”…………………..
      That is a health warning for the readers in England.

      The Daily Express in Scotland has politics in mind on it’s FRONT PAGE Headline:

      ……………….”ANOTHER FINE MESS…………………..
      ………….SNP’s no-jail plan is ‘madness'”………….

      Richard Desmond who lives in Hampstead London is the owner of Express Newspapers.

      “Political alignment:
      Hard Euroscepticism
      Right-wing populism
      Conservative” [WIKIPEDIA].

    126. Big Del says:

      Heading off shore tomorrow folks…
      Brand new field of Edinburgh on the jock/ Nogi border ,got at least 15 years in it.
      My FPSO already has a new field to go to then. (20 years time after dry dock)
      BTW it’s all running out apparently. Lies lies lies.
      Oh Great result today Geeo?that was unexpected ..

    127. Declan McDonnell says:

      My colours nailed – anti separatist whether within UK or EU. So not in tune with many here but expecting some semblance of rational debate in a moderated forum. Not so – just empty invective. McTernan advances a case for a second Brexit ref because the voters in the first could not know what they voted for. That is surely a respectable case. If I pick up the tones correctly he has argued that you can’t apply the same rationale to indyref2 and for that is labelled a hypocrite. I think he is being entirely consistent. The vote for change should always have been seen as in 2 parts – principle and actual. If indyref 1 had been about the principle of independence it would surely have been won by Yes. Then the real,later, referendum would have been on the fleshed out proposition with borders, currency, asset and debt division etc in specific form. That decision would then have been real and beyond correction for many decades. As it was the decision was presented by all parties as a make or break i.e. in-principle one and the result was clear meaning we have not advanced to a fleshed out proposal. That is why indyref2 and Brexit2 are entirely different beasts.

    128. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Big Del.

      Good to read these stories from ‘the front line’. Kinda makes a mockery of what we are told via the MSM.

    129. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “McTernan advances a case for a second Brexit ref because the voters in the first could not know what they voted for. That is surely a respectable case.”

      No, sorry, that’s bollocks, and has already been addressed here:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/willie-and-me/

      People knew they were voting to give the Tories a blank cheque. They knew there was no plan. They voted Leave anyway, and they voted for another Tory Prime Minister after the shambolic reality was clear. Nothing has materially changed, so there’s no justification for a second vote.

      The indyref is different. There’s been a huge, fundamental change – Scots were sold a No vote as the only way to stay in the EU, yet it’s the reason we’re being forced out. And Scotland has had THREE elections since the indyref, and at every one it returned the SNP to power, on an explicit platform of having another referendum if Scotland was forced out of the EU against its will.

      Scotland has both a moral case and a political mandate for another vote. The UK has neither.



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