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Wings Over Scotland

The Cod-father

Posted on May 28, 2023 by

It’s a bit disappointing to see an Italian-born man play into Mafia stereotypes.

“Nice indy movement you’ve got there. Be a shame if anything… happened to it.”

Perhaps aware that the carrots they’ve been feeding Yes supporters for years are beginning to lose their power, the beleaguered SNP are now reaching for the stick.

The party’s “policy convener” – we use the inverted commas because he has about as much control of their policy as we do – took to whatever the podcast equivalent of the airwaves is this week to threaten that if people didn’t vote SNP at the next UK election, independence would be “off the agenda”.

It was a very confused message. Giugliano was very clear that he was talking about a Westminster election, yet also talked of the SNP being “in government” as a result of it, which of course is the one thing we can state with certainty WON’T happen.

There is categorically, unequivocally, ZERO chance of the SNP being part of the UK government. Labour, whether reasonably or otherwise, regard the notion as an utterly toxic one, having been terrorised by the Tories’ famed 2015 campaign posters which put Ed Miliband in Alex Salmond’s pocket. (We even had one in Bath.)

And as we’ve already noted, the arithmetic is almost impossible anyway. About five unlikely things would have to happen in a row for the SNP to be even able to exert any influence on a Labour administration.

So no matter what happens, independence will not be “on the agenda” in UK politics. The SNP will occasionally whine about it in the Commons, everyone else will laugh and jeer, and they’ll sit back down quietly, just as they have since voters sent 56 SNP MPs out of 59 there eight years ago to no detectable effect whatsoever.

But the rest of Giugliano’s comments were just plain weird. Immediately after saying that the whole future of the Yes movement was dependent on SNP MPs being elected to Westminster, he turned round and said that the SNP should be taken out of the picture entirely, and support should instead be built by some sort of unspecified “real grassroots organisation” led by a “non-political figure”.

The entire passage is, frankly, rambling gibberish. Anyone leading an independence campaign would become political automatically. And readers who recall the SNP’s implacable open hostility to external indy organisations like AUOB, Now Scotland and the Scottish Independence Convention (congratulations if you even remember those last two) will already be raising a quizzical eyebrow at the whole idea,.

Particularly given that the very same person just days ago told everyone else in the Yes movement to butt out of the SNP’s business for the next two years.

But perhaps Giugliano means himself. Because despite his best efforts at becoming one for most of the last decade, he has remained a resolutely non-political figure.

In 2016 he was at the heart of a poisonous and almost unprecedented coup against the SNP’s sitting MSP in Edinburgh Western, Colin Keir.

Widely believed to be the source of numerous hostile briefings to the press about Keir, Giugliano secured the nomination but then fought a terrible campaign, and despite the SNP having been “miles ahead” in local polling he lost the seat to notorious dimwit Alex Cole-Hamilton, who turned 9276 Lib Dem votes at the 2011 election into 16,645 and reversed Keir’s SNP majority of 2700 into one of 3000 for the LDs.

(Cole-Hamilton more than tripled that majority in 2021, making it now one of the safest Unionist seats in Scotland.)

But remarkably, that’s not the only time Giugliano has handed an SNP seat to one of the thickest anti-independence politicians in the country. The next year he managed to get nominated to contest the equivalent Westminster seat, Edinburgh West, where he was defending a 3210 majority against absolute bonehead and five-time election loser Christine Jardine.

Even in the most pro-EU city in the entire UK – Edinburgh voted Remain by 74% to 26%, compared to just 60-40 for London – Giugliano ran such a mess of a campaign that even though the Lib Dem vote had slightly DECREASED, Giugliano lost so many of Michelle Thomson’s 2015 votes that Jardine took the seat comfortably, once again reversing a majority of around 3000.

(And once again, the Lib Dems increased that majority at the next election, in 2019.)

Perhaps having realised that Giugliano was useless in either defence or attack against Lib Dems, the SNP gave him a third bite at the cherry in 2021, parachuting him in at the opposite end of the Central Belt to try to dislodge Labour’s extremely vulnerable Jackie Baillie in Dumbarton, who was sitting on a majority of just 109 and expected by pretty much everyone (including herself) to lose the seat.

But once again Giugliano blew it. Baillie actually increased her majority more than 13-fold, returning by a healthy 1483 votes after adding more than 4000 to Labour’s tally despite a crowded ballot paper of 19 candidates (there’d been just 11 in 2016).

At the count, Giugliano sulked petulantly.

Giugliano’s failure to capture the SNP’s easiest target saw the party fall one seat short of a majority at Holyrood, letting the UK government off the hook of the media narrative that a majority would have forced the concession of a second indyref.

It’s difficult to see why the SNP would want to hand even notional control of its policy development to someone who’s shown such a remarkable inability to persuade the electorate, who has thrown his weight behind the party’s most unpopular policies (having previously tried to curry favour with the other side), and whose brightest idea appears to be to try to crudely blackmail indy supporters.

(Maybe it’s just got the hots for wee baldy gay Italian guys from Edinburgh, having very briefly previously put Marco Biagi in charge of indy strategy.)

Unless, of course, all it really wants to do is keep as many useless benchwarmers as possible in London, hoovering up millions of pounds in wages and expenses and pensions and jobs for their pals, for another five years while the SNP keeps booting the indy can further and further down the road.

And given that Giugliano has already told us he doesn’t want to even TALK to the rest of the Yes movement until at least 2025, that seems a pretty fair assumption. If you ask us, folks, the supposed party of independence is smelling pretty fishy.

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0 to “The Cod-father”

  1. DickieT says:

    The wee Patrick Harvey clone is totally out if his depth but is clearly at home in woke SNP

  2. Grahame+Case says:

    What Toni did to Colin Keir did not sit well weigh me at all, it was one of the reasons I would eventually leave the party,

  3. SteepBrae says:

    “.It’s difficult to see why… Unless, of course, all it really wants… seems a pretty fair assumption” very likely covers it.

  4. Antoine Bisset says:

    Much of the SNP policy seems to rely on contingencies: if this happens, then we can do X.
    Or even: if this happens, and that happens, and this other thing happens, we can do Y.
    Contingency planning is not an intelligent response to changing circumstances as the SNP would have us believe, it is kicking the can down the road, just dressed up a bit to look like there is some thought involved, and it is therefore the resultant best option.
    It never is, although it does serve to keep the elected politicos impotent in their sinecures for a bit longer.
    Contingency planning should never be a prime factor. It is not a substitute for action. Most times and in most circumstances the goal should be pursued, the desired outcome sought with very ounce of effort, every sinew at breaking point.
    We, and our politicians, very much need to cease considering the views of those who would stop us, and drive onwards towards independence, single-mindedly, as focused as a carthorse in blinkers.

  5. Casper1066 says:

    He always looks like he is passing something very painful.

    What an utter waste of 8 years,

  6. Ian McCubbin says:

    It’s so sad to watch the less than credible rise so high in Nu SNP.
    Our only hope is AlBA contesting enough seats at GE 2024 to remove alm the comfy slippers and pension troughers.

  7. willie says:

    Tony Guigliano is a serial waster and absolute failure.

    As a gay activist cum woke cum Sturgeon clique groupie the Rev is absolutely correct to record how after being parachuted in to Dumbarton, deploying the most corrupt and malign processes to secure his candidacy, he failed to take the most marginal seat in Scotland.

    Jackie Bailie had a miniscule 109 vote majority over the SNP and Guigliano with the fullest support of the party managed to increase her majority to 1,483.

    But just wait to the next election. The cull is coming for Guigliano and his chums. Opinion polls are suggesting that the SNP will lose 23 Westminster seats. However, I think the cull will be much greater than that.

    A new movement is coming. Yesterday’s cartoon of the SNP train carriage being unhitched from the Yes engine brought that out very clearly. The SNP are no longer the party of independence and the people know it. They are gone and will be replaced.

    As the SNP support slumps polls to around 30% and maybe much lower than that too, polls also show that support for independence has remained around a rock steady

    That is a very sound base and shows that the voters are now decoupling the SNP from independence.

    And nonentities like Guigliano? Well he and his fellow wasters are just going to have to find something else to do. Change is coming and it doesn’t involve them.

  8. SteepBrae says:

    Spin doctors –

    Bliar had Campbell, Johnson had Cummings, Yousaf has Giugliano.

    Distancing technique.

  9. John Muir says:

    I had the dubious privilege of voting for him twice, in both of the Edinburgh West contests described. It’s a tough seat—so heavily No it’s amazing the SNP ever took it, let alone in both parliaments—so I wasn’t surprised to lose. Never did know why this guy replaced our MSP Keir though. Not that Keir had much of a profile, either. This is one of the most heavily-worked Lib Dem areas in all of Scotland, you could have sworn they’d never lost, just going by the weight of the leaflets.

    Mind, this also means my coming protest vote against the SNP will be as invisible as (all but two) of my votes for them were, in this anything but marginal contest. Edinburgh West is a complete irrelevance, and I guess I’ll just break the habit of a lifetime and stay at home.

  10. WingsOverFrance says:

    That title immediately made me think there was an Amiga platform game with the same name. Also, he’s a plant.

  11. duncanio says:

    A nice photo of the bespectacled, brow-furrowed, teeth-gnashing Giugliano – give that man a laxative.

  12. Stephen O'Brien says:

    The original ethos of SNP, remains to be expressed. Under which banner, still to be decided by those already elected.

    Politicians switching to ALBA, the most positive action for Scotland’s immediate future.

    Regardless of SNP’s financial woes, the most pressing issue to be answered…

    When will defection to ALBA, begin in earnest?

    The above revolution is essential, changes everything, the catalyst to truly implement genuine democracy.

    The UK establishment, fully aware of this pivotal threat to the Union. In the right circumstance, electoral support for ALBA, from SNP, could swing overnight!

    Following on from the above, if SNP survives the current threat to it’s finances, the party would require to align Indy policy, to remain relevant.

    There’s no division of purpose among Indy supporters, so why should switching to ALBA, be painted as detrimental to that goal? Indy manifesto will defeat unionist at the ballot, everytime. Splitting the vote is hardly an issue, could afford to split 50% of existing Indy seats and still trounce unionists!

    If Indy Alliance with ALBA, is viewed as a threat, it’s only a threat to individual Politicians, not to independence!

    Politicians making that switch, in the coming weeks, is crucial. If not, they assure their own downfall.

  13. James Barr Gardner says:

    Amy Callaghan SNP on course to lose East Dunbatonshire seat to LibDem Susan Murray.

  14. Jackie Baillie is one of the most honest and sensible politicians in Scotland, I’m glad the SNP put this nae mark up against her

  15. PacMan says:

    The SNP has positioned themselves as the anti-Tory party.

    At the next UK election if a minority Labour government is elected with the SNP holding the balance of power, all Labour needs to do is dare the SNP to vote against them and be seen as the party voting with the Tories.

    It is rumoured that Teresa May said words to the effect that Nicola Sturgeon wasn’t very bright. Whether it is true or not, it is being seen with their crazy strategy of continuing Sturgeon’s vastly unpopular policies and now this, their strategy for the next UK election.

    This has been repeated many times but needs to repeated again and again because there are SNP voters aren’t as bright as the party they are voting for.

  16. Eddie Munster says:

    Jackie Ballie romanced the local tory ladies club and asked them to lend her their votes. Was reported in the local newspaper and the story was pulled from their website not long after.

    Jackie Ballie pwned him hard on twitter when she said she’d happily debate him once he could get out of Edinburgh when covid restrictions had lifted.

    Don’t know why they keep promoting this chump. Must have dirt on someone or hes sworn some kind of oath to do anything, regardless of what it is.

  17. PacMan says:

    Had forgotten to mention, even if the SNP weren’t so toxic south of the Border, they have boxed themselves so much into a corner with their anti-Tory rhetoric that they would be going into negotiations with a hypothetical future Labour government with little bargaining power.

    Again, the same outcome would be of Labour daring the SNP to vote against them.

  18. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Don’t fully agree with your last line there Stu.

    Smelling fishy is not the SNP style.

    I have opined previous the SNP have a sulphurous quality to them in fact they smell shitty.

  19. Karen says:

    Remember the Scottish Constitutional Convention 1995. Everyone and their mother were members – churches, trades unions, councils, the Cooperative Party, Democratic Left. But not the SNP.

  20. Geoff Anderson says:

    For years I watched him strut about at Conferences with his loud cheering gay mafia in tow. It was obvious that it was never about Independence. It was all about him and his fan club.
    They talked through every speaker only there to scream for their icon. What is it about the SNP and idols?

  21. Red says:

    Labour have just announced they’re going to shut down Scotland’s oil and gas industry.

    That’s tens of thousands of good jobs and billions in investment we won’t be getting in future (if you’re still gullible enough to believe in the “green jobs” fairy, you’re in for a nasty surprise). As we know, expensive energy means poverty and decline.

    In the old days we used to have some kind of Scottish National Party that would argue for Scottish interests, wonder what happened to them.

  22. Mia says:

    What were the words of Yousaf about Murell?

    “An election winner”

    Right. Are we expected to believe a ruthless, experienced “election winner” would somewhat miss one disastrous campaign and candidate which resulted in losing one safe seat and potentially a parliamentary majority, never mind the same happening three times?

    Yeah, right.

    There appears to be a modus operandi here that is perfectly in line with the political fraud Sturgeon’s “vote SNP1 and 2” in 2021.

    The question is, in those three opportunities that Giugliano was allowed (instructed?) to fuck up the seat, who was Murrell being an election winner for, was that the crown, was that the unionist parties as a whole?

    Who selected Giugliano for the seats?

    One is beginning to wonder if Giugliano is an example of a paper candidate the SNP was purposely deploying to ensure it failed to get a parliamentary majority so the S30 begging strategy could continue for another 5 years.

    So, how many other paper candidates has the SNP been deploying and deceiving the yes movement with to stop short of a majority?

    In how many other seats did the SNP executive gerrymander the candidate selection to force in an external candidate nobody knows (liked), confuse locals and lose the seat?

    Joanna Cherry, Margaret Ferrier’s seat?

    Until what point have our elections become an arranged game where political parties are pissing all over the concept of democracy and already agreeing among them, before the election takes even place, which seats each one is going to take?

    Is the allocation of Scotland’s seats some sort of a tombola exercise?

    This isn’t a democracy. This is a complete farce and an insult to the voters’ intelligence. We should all spoil our ballots in protest. The entire UK political system is rotten to the core and taking us for fools. The SNP is showing clear signs it is as rotten and as determined to stop independence as labour, libdems and tories.

    The problem with all this suspicious maneuvering from the SNP to seemingly stop anti-union majorities is that makes one wonder if Scotland really voted for independence in 2014 and all what we have been fed as “Scottish politics” since then is nothing but a virtual reality performance by a bunch of puppets the crown has been moving around to hide that result.

  23. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote: “..Giugliano has already told us he doesn’t want to even TALK to the rest of the Yes movement until at least 2025,”

    That’s OK, Giugliano, we will do our talking without you, your days are numbered. Come the morning after the next Westminster election you’ll be wishing you were wakening up to a horses head in your bed instead, such will be the hammering we’re going to give Yous for being disloyal to the movement. Arrogant c@nt!

    Folks, i bet Mr Giugliano thinks he’s the ‘Mr Big’ USA political fixer played by that Scottish fella on Netflix. Sorry, can’t remember what the political drama was called. Talk about delusional. LOL!

  24. Late to the party says:

    What mia said.
    Beautifully spot on.

  25. Iain mhor says:

    “…since voters sent 56 SNP MPs out of 59 there eight years ago to no detectable effect whatsoever”

    That is everything in a nutshell.

    Between that support, and what the SNP have been handed at Holyrood, quite rightly voters are asking: “Where is our return?”

    I’d suggest the zeitgeist is the electorate saying: “Nice party you have there…” as opposed to Mr Guigliano’s bizarre, and feeble effort: “Vote for us, or we will continue to do nothing”

    Unlike the SNP, the Scottish electorate, actually have a stick – a rather large, knobbly one, with big notches in it – and they aren’t afraid to wield it with impunity.

  26. Luigi says:

    That poster of wee Ed Milliband nicely tucked in Salmond’s pocket was devastating for Labour. An absolutely killer. What’s the likelihood of an updated version, with Keir Starmer in Yousaf’s pocket, appearing just before the next GE? I wouldn’t bet against it. Certainly, the SNP campaigning on this will be very concerning for Labour. There is no way Labour will ever do a deal with the SNP. They may be daft but they are not stupid. The SNP know this but want their voters to think otherwise.

  27. fruitella the hun says:

    Red: “Labour have just announced they’re going to shut down Scotland’s oil and gas industry.”

    They’re after green votes which they obviously judge as significant. Alba would do well to take heed.

    The reasons the greens came to the conclusion that an oil based economy was not the future will be well known to you. It has destroyed much of the social and biological fabric of human society and will continue to do so until stopped by external events (war, famine, genocide) unless we change the channel. I’m aware it has also brought some people comfy lifestyles.

    UK has 0.8% of the global population. Any amount of co2 dumping over that suggests Western entitlement (maybe allow a bit over to cover northern-living tribes).

    What are our local UK emissions? And what are the emissions associated with our consumption – i.e. carbon footprint of imports?

    How much do we need to cut emissions by 2050 to avoid/diminish the guaranteed (by physics chemistry and biology not by economics, sociology or astrology) disastrous effects?

    Looking forward to the figures you unearth.

  28. Anton Decadent says:

    Re Milliband, the brother David went over to the US to earn hundreds of thousands a year in the NGO/front operation charity sector carrying out population transfer into America and other Western nations.

    Re the change in our adverts and soap operas etc to over represent mixed race relationships etc, that was implemented by someone who was sent over from New York with that mission and who shares the same background as the Millibands.

    I remember on here a few weeks ago people were getting upset at the term gay mafia being used, it is true but it is not just a gay mafia which is at work in our countries.

  29. Dorothy Devine says:

    Luigi , the only problem with that is that no bugger would believe it, so may I suggest that not even the daftest Tory would consider it a winner.

  30. Patsy Millar says:

    I don’t intend in any way to come to Toni Guigliano’s defence, but he didn’t stand any chance of winning the Dumbarton seat. Jackie Baillie was backed by a a large swathe of finance from Conservative supporters and tactical voting by those same Conservatives and probably by the Lib Dems did the rest. If the person who should have been allowed to stand for the SNP candidacy but who had dared to cross swords with NS over the trans issue and was not put up as a candidate had contested the seat, there might have been some hope as she was a local councillor and had a very good track record but we all know the ending to that story!

  31. Bob says:

    Further to Mia’s suggestion above, writing ‘None of the above’ on your ballot paper, I believe still ensures that it gets counted whereas not voting will be blamed on voter apathy rather than voter disillusionment. I would like to see NOTA as an option on all of our ballot papers.

  32. Anton Decadent says:

    With regard to a captured and compliant media, this is from todays Guardian. The comments are worth a view as well for the enablers and shouting down of anyone who speaks the truth.

    When basic biological reality is denied along with names and dates being changed, street names changed, statues torn down a population should be really worried as the people doing so want rid of them as well.

  33. Johnlm says:

    Gugliano – translation – an Italian wet pishfart (not to be confused with the MP for Perth and N. Perthshire)

  34. Alf Baird says:

    Mia @ 12:40 pm

    “a virtual reality performance by a bunch of puppets the crown has been moving around”

    Nae doot aboot it, thon croun aye rins the territory o Scotlan in aw weys an mair. We appear to have a lesser status than even former ‘autonomous’ British colonial ‘dominions’ had before they were independent.

  35. Shug says:

    The conservative would support a majority labour government to help labour avoid having to come to a deal with the SNP. A deal between labour and SNP it not happening.

    Labour would become responsible to losing the union and that would not be allowed.

    The top of the SNP are either stupid or compromised and deliberately delivering flawed policies.

    I do not believe intelligent politicians could accidentally create the degree of mess they have created.

    I think the SNP needs its own security service from pin down the plants

  36. President Xiden says:

    Could I suggest the SNP rename themselves The Transhumanist Party as that reflects their real agenda.

  37. Gordon Keane says:

    All this talk from certain SNP figures about holding balance of power and forcing Labour’s hand, is pure crazy!
    They have not learned anything from the last 2 times they said that same thing, and got them, and Scotland, nowhere, but did end up getting us outside Europe!
    Tories might try to repeat their Miliband campaign again, but Starmer won’t have any of it. Labour could just as easily reverse the wee dude in the pocket, and its Humza in Stramer’s pocket!
    Regards various constituencies, had SNP allowed the local branches to select their own person, and had they not so publicly opposed others like MSP Keir, or stop MP Cherry from getting into Holyrood, then things would be a lot different for them today.
    It does seem, a certain faction was able to take over.aND And that faction was all pro Sturgeon.
    It got away with it, because next to everyone else put all their trust and faith in Nicola Sturgeon.
    And even right up to the end, they thought she would get them Independence, and anyone who questioned her approach being rounded upon.
    These folks were left quite bereft the day she left, and as things unfolded further, destroying their hopes even more.
    If SNP get less MPs, then it will be their own doing.
    However, Giugliano is right on one thing, and that it would make things more difficult for Scotland if that were to happen, and Labour and tory can claim Scotland doesn’t want Independence. but again, whose fault would that be?
    His own fault, and pretend Independence dudes like him.
    Scotland wants Independence alright, that’s why SNP got voted in, but it looks like its SNP who doesn’t. Or not’till it suits them in any number of years down the line.
    Well, that’s not good enough.

    We wonder how Kate Forbes would have approached things, for she came over as a bit Devoltionist too, but at least she might have commanded more public support (and open to change of plans?) and SNP would not be facing an abyss, an abyss too many senior figures are presently totally oblivious to!

  38. Peter A Bell says:

    Toni Giugliano is an arse. But he’s right about one thing. As things stand, any setback for the SNP is a setback for Scotland’s cause. It is wise to keep at least one eye on the realpolitik. There are regrettably few wise people around.

  39. John Main says:

    @fruitella the hun

    I am more than happy for Scotland’s oil and gas industry to be shut down on the day that Scotland’s need for oil and gas declines to 0.

    And not one day earlier.

    So, all transport, heating, lighting, industry powered from renewables. All the myriad uses for plastics phased out and sustainable alternatives in place. All artificial fertilisers, the bedrock of Scotland’s ability to feed itself, manufactured from sustainable feedstocks using renewable energy.

    All of the current virtue-signalling practices, allowing us to congratulate ourselves on how righteous we are, while other countries choke on pollution, enslave kids, or exterminate their environments, phased out.

    Meantime, while we continue to use oil and gas for as we do, not one barrel or therm imported from overseas. Thus, not one pound of profit, desperately needed to fund our own sustainable transition, lost to our own economy.

    I think we could maybes do this by 2050, with no disasterous effects on our standard of living, given sustained political will spanning many governing administrations.

    I also think it will make no difference whatsoever to the disasterous climate changes that are coming to us all. Because even if wee Scotland does everything I write, the rest of the world mostly can’t.

    So they won’t.

    Even so, still worth doing it here, as it may just mean Scotland can survive with a reasonable quality of life for us Scots.

  40. Johnlm says:

    Don, Capo, Underboss, Consiglieri, Soldier…..
    A Gugliano is so far down the food chain that he has to be sent to Scotland to run things.
    It’s a P2 Masonic thing probably.

  41. Lorna Campbell says:

    Good piece by Richard Murphy in The National, although way off beam. Yes, there is little time to prevent the British juggernaut from rolling over us, but who in hell is going to stop them? The SNP? The party that was handed, way, way above the dreams of any other SNP administration or party grouping ever in the history of the party, so many opportunities to end the Union that they were spoiled for choice? That SNP? That party? Aye, and is that a plump, pinkish porcine blimp I see above my head?

    The SNP will do nothing. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Nichts. Rien. They will do nothing to help us or to save us. Fascism could roll over us tomorrow and the SNP would bleat like the sheeples they are, throw up their hands and do nothing – except save their own skins. Many Scots know what it is like to have lived in fear, many still live in fear. Women live in fear of the men in frocks, lauded by the SNP. The SNP, by their lack of action on independence, by their collaborationist attitude have staked us out like goats. Save us from fascism, Richard? By their actions know them. What is the choice? British ‘fascists’ or Scottish ones, because I see little to choose between them right now.

    They know they have lost the trust of many of the people, yet they are still arrogant and demanding of our loyalty like the chap above in the Rev’s piece. Others can please themselves, but I will never vote for them again. Sturgeon and her cohort and cabal, with the aid of the ‘wokerati’ and the Greens, destroyed a decent, left of centre, social democratic party whose raison ‘d’être was independence. They are like rats leavng the sinking ship – except that we are not sinking. They can go to hell in a handcart. Independence will come, but not through them or with them. Not now, not ever.

  42. Geoff Anderson says:

    Peter Bell is the only wise man around!
    Support the SNP cries Peter!
    No surprise that nobody reads his blog

  43. John Main says:

    The link to Toni’s “glory days” ( in 2013 ) makes it clear that in his own words, his political ambition is to be an MEP.

    “Europe is in my blood” he says.

    Not surprising then, that he does not have Scotland’s and we Scot’s best interests at heart.

    Not surprising either, that he regards popular democracy as an aggravating irrelevancy to be sidestepped and ignored.

  44. Mia says:

    “The SNP know this but want their voters to think otherwise”

    I would say “their” voters and everybody else’s.

    What this will do to the unionist vote in Scotland is to move it towards tories/libdems.

    In England, this will move a good chunk of the undecided and soft labour towards tory, particularly if the SNP start to make any noises of reverting Brexit, entering the single market, etc.

    It seems to me, the same as in 2015, the SNP never had any intention to team up with labour. They were using this propaganda as a way to increase the tory vote in England.

    Yousaf has said quite categorically he would not make a deal for the referendum with the tories, only with labour.

    What is the best way for the SNP to chill and not having to keep bothering themselves with the referendum or with indy-carrots?

    By getting the tories back in n10. That would give them another 5 years of happy troughing.

  45. John Main says:

    Peter A Bell

    I am all for keeping an eye on realpolitik, being an enthusiastic proponent of realpolitik myself.

    Sometimes realpolitik is so in your face it pokes you in the eye.

    Like when a national independence movement outsources its leadership (via a flawed and fraudulent process).

    What can Scotland do when it is the SNP itself that has embraced and continues to embrace the setback that is HY?

    Realpolitik makes it impossible to airbrush this reality away.

  46. Stephen O'Brien says:

    @Peter A Bell

    Why do you insist in putting all the indy eggs in one basket?

    Even if we only had one basket, SNP itself, now broken!

    Risk splitting the vote instead of all the eggs!

  47. fruitella the hun says:

    John Main 2.42

    If we are too wee to contribute to the global effort on CO2 reduction required then maybes we are too wee to function as a worthwhile independent country. Innarestin…

    I’ve questioned the “Just Transition” in a previous post – hardly virtue singalong.

    In a way the competing views don’t matter, it’s the votes attached to them that do. Greens pulled 220,000 voters on the list last time (not me though, Alba). The people on here trashing their concerns, are unwise. It’s not as if the current system has delivered prosperity and security, is it? Many environmentally minded voters did not vote green.

    Maybe someone with a grasp of acknowledged stats on carbon emissions will make a stab at my questions and show how we can both meet international obligations and pump the damn stuff that does the damage.

    Our food supply need not depend on artificial fertilisers. We have plenty land, if farmed well. Sure that would involve big social shifts, which many might welcome though.

  48. Red says:

    The reasons the greens came to the conclusion that an oil based economy was not the future will be well known to you.

    It is well known to me indeed: the Greens are moronic, demented perverts who mean to do us – and especially our children – great harm.

  49. James Che says:

    I see Peter Bell and Sara Salyers are still slipping into the myth that Scotland is still in a treaty of union with Westminster parliament.
    It was extinguished in 1707. By Westminster and by Queen Anne canceling out the Scottish parliament,

    However I agree with Sara Salyers and Alf Baird, that without a legal treaty Since 1707 we can safely state Scotland would legally come under the heading of being Colonised.

    The British parliament that became UK parliament did not make a treaty of union with Scotland in 1707 either.

  50. Red says:

    Our food supply need not depend on artificial fertilisers.

    Ok, lol.

    We only need fertiliser if we’re planning on “eating”.

  51. Frank Gillougley says:

    Just to say, there is an excellent 3-part summary by Shauny Boy on Youtube, of Scottish Politics from the electorate being Labour fodder to being current-day SNP fodder. Demanding viewing at times, but very accurate on where Scotland is politically and why. Stay with it!

    It is therapeutic to know that you are not alone, in thinking and feeling the way you do!

  52. Derick fae Yell says:

    Realpolitik? 32 years in the SNP. A bloody lorry load of leaflets and money I could have spent on ANYTHING else

    Realpolitik is that if Alba or ISP stand a candidate (and I implore them to do so), I will vote for that candidate. If no ISP/Alba candidate I will vote for any party best placed to boot the SNP in the neenaws (if any). Around here – Falkirk – that’s Labour.

    I loathe the Labour Party.

    Nevertheless the only way to independence is through the SNP, like a truck through a door ?

  53. Stephen O'Brien says:

    @Peter A Bell

    ‘if we all stick together’.. The party has let us all down. it’s time to risk splitting the indy vote, we’ll soon find out, just how far SNP has deserted independence!

    An Indy Alliance should be a simple matter of fact, for the next election! SNP sowing seeds of doubt, at every turn!

  54. Curious says:

    Are there any heterosexual people left in Holyrood..ANY?

  55. Stephen O'Brien says:

    Split the vote, split the atom! I’m past caring, as long as SNP is forced to face the music!

    ALBA must make their move!

    No more kowtowing to infested SNP!

  56. johnlm says:

    fruitellathe hun @3.24
    I understand that CO2 accounts for 0.04% of the atmosphere.
    Some say that mankind is responsible for 50% of this.
    Ice cores suggest that 4000 years ago temperatures were 2.5’C warmer.
    Things might not be a simple as you imply.

  57. John C says:

    Giugliano is another example of someone in Scottish politics and the SNP failing upwards to have a position far above his ability. His words about independence serve nobody but himself and the SNP, not the indy movement. We know now the SNP have no intention of pushing for independence but are happy to push to mutilate children and let men into women’s spaces or back endless half-baked schemes from the Greens.

    I do think however today’s revelations in the Telegraph are going to have a knock-on effect that could well change the political landscape. Labour are trying to backpedal to support some form of women’s rights (while keeping their toe in the Trans water), while any legal cases (which has to happen given the nature of what’s revealed today) will affect anyone backing this ideology, including the SNP/Greens as pressure now mounts on the Sandyford to come clean to what’s been actually going on there.

    We’re seeing a massive medical scandal emerge. It’ll be the biggest one of the century so far and it’ll bring down a lot of institutions, and people so hopefully this current crop of Scottish Greens get taken down to whatever hell they deserve & we can focus on things like independence and actual environmentalism again.

  58. Northcode says:

    If you thought George Lucas, or his scriptwriters, came up with the idea for the way Yoda speaks, you’d be wrong.

    No. George nicked the idea from a guy called Richard Lovelace, who in turn nicked it from the ancients.

    Richard Lovelace, however, is credited with bringing it into the English language.

    Bringing what into the English language I hear you ask?

    Why, Hyperbaton, of course.

    Dick was a guy who, in 1642, was banged up in some nick somewhere and was missing his girlfriend.

    So he quilled out a wee love poem to try and convince himself, and maybe her, too, that he wasn’t actually in the jail.

    He even proved it with metaphor.

    You’ve probably heard a bit of it.

    He wrote:

    Stone walls do not a prison make,
    Nor iron bars a cage . . .

    Which is, of course, Hyperbaton because:

    1. ‘MAKE’ should come between ‘NOT’ and ‘A’.
    2. It is quite evidently and obviously nonsense.

    And now, all because Dickie Lovelace (does that sound porn star or Antiques Road Show expert?) was missing his girlfriend, and his Hyperbaton actually worked (because some really don’t), it went straight into the English language.

    In fact, it’s said that Churchill (I know, sorry. But he was damn good at this stuff) used it in response to some guff from a civil servant.

    Apparently, he wrote in the margin of some official document or other:

    “This is the kind of English up with which I will not put.”

    Hyperbaton. Now you know.

    And now you know what Yoda is all about, too.

    Except you don’t.

    Because in “Star Wars, Episode 1: The Phantom Menace”, Yoda pretty much dumped Hyperbaton for a completely different figure of speech.

    Yes, I know. A joy must I be to with the movies go.

  59. John Main says:

    Impossible to write “too wee” on here in any context, without triggering some nutjob.

    Worth repetition, what I wrote earlier.

    Scotland’s contribution to global climate change is insignificant. Should Scotland become completely carbon neutral, the reduction to global carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses will be too wee to make any difference to the catastrophic climate changes heading our way.

    It’s simple, the effects of Scotland’s 6 million people, from within a world total of 10 billion people.

    But we should still do it anyways, so that we eliminate our risk from the inevitable breakdowns of global supply chains that the experts predict. Or make the risks too wee to be worth worrying about.

    Innarestin to think about how much weeer Scotland’s landmass will become if/when the predicted sea level rises occur. And how much weeer Scotland’s productive farmland might be too.

  60. Luigi says:

    I see Peter Bell is still trolling with his SNP dependency nonsense. Such delusion – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. A setback for the SNP is most certainly not a setback for Scotland’s cause. I would argue that any success for the SNP in its current form would be a setback for Scotland’s cause. When will it sink in? Those in control of the SNP are not interested in pushing for independence. Ain’t going to happen. It really ain’t. Happy to help.

  61. Billy Carlin says:

    fruitella the hun – Carbon (CO2) is plant FOOD and is only 0.39% of ALL gases in the atmosphere – that’s right not even half a percent of ALL gases. The MORE CO2 we put out the GREENER the planet becomes.

    The Green movement is FUNDED and CONTROLLED by George Soros and the Oil/Gas/Chemical and BANKING system and is all part of their agenda on behalf of the MAFIAS that control them – these are the same people that are hiding WATER powered Internal Combustion Engines as per Stanley Meyer and others where they run on tanks of water with a splitter in the engine compartment to burn the hydrogen with only the rest as water vapour as waste with NO pollution. These are the same people that are hiding the FREE ENERGY that was discovered by Nikola Tesla – the FREE ENERGY that was used on 9/11 to turn the SEVEN Buildings of the Twin Towers Complex to DUST that day as part of their agenda that the Global Warming/CO2 Drivel is also part of – Dr Judy Wood at her website totally exposes this as does her EXCELLENT book WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO? full of the EVIDENCE she took all the way up the the Supreme Court. The 911 videos on the Math Easy Solutions Youtube channel also totally expose this as well as the FACT that they used Hurricane Erin as their power source for the Directed Energy Weapons used to turn those SEVEN buildings to DUST. Yes they can control the weather and do and most people are blind to the FACT that they are spraying the sky most days with Chemtrails for that reason supposedly to try and block out the Sun because surprise surprise it is the SUN that creates the weather on this planet as well as every other planet at the same time.

    Also there is NO problem with air pollution with regard to ULEZ as the air – even in London – is the cleanest that it has ever been and they are just bringing this is as part of their agenda to get RID of all cars as part of their 15/20 Minute Cities agenda where no one – apart from the so called elites – are going to be allowed to travel more that the 15/20 minutes that they can get and back from their own RENTED front door – you are also NOT going to be allowed to own your own house or anything else – and this is all part of their One World Government Digital Currency Social Credit Communist System with no cash where they will tell you what you can or cannot buy. This is what the Green movement is part of and the totally FAKE Global Warming that was morphed into to Climate Change because the planet as part of the Sun’s cycle has actually been COOLING for decades now. These crooks are also going to be making £TRILLIONS out of the carbon tax scam as well if they get away with their agendas that all of these Green party voters have been suckered into voting for. The Tom Nelson Youtube channel for one totally exposes the Global Warming/Climate Change SCAM.

  62. Scot says:

    It is no surprise that a man who idolises the minority fails to win elections.
    He needs to be introduced to the virtues of Utilitarianism

  63. John Main says:

    A joy must I be to with the movies go

    I have to hand it to Northcode.

    A master playing us like a musical instrument, or a cloth eared eejit, who thinks irony pertains to the tendency to rust when exposed to air and moisture?

    Waxing lyrical about awakening to the ramifications of colonisation, then posting about “movies”.

    My BS meter has its needle on Wind Up.

  64. Ottomanboi says:

    The politics of the anglophone west is corrupt and so called woke is merely one aspect of the corruption. Sadly, Scotland is enmeshed in that….and there are those who say «culture» doesn’t matter.
    The political stage in Scotland needs a high power «hose down».
    The party of independence giving up on independence….the most cynical of con tricks.
    Have the Scots a collective death wish?

  65. John Main says:

    Glasgow ULEZ starts Thursday coming.

    I am fairly confident that’s a fact, even although it is reported by the MSM.

    And the Guardian.

  66. twathater says:

    I have to say I am rather confused, we have PA bell exhorting nay DEMANDING that we all vote for the Sexual Nonce Party if we are to have ANY CHANCE of independence , then along comes fruitella the hun to tell us that we MUST vote for the Scottish greens if we want independence and also if we are to save the planet

    MY confusion arises because I don’t see any of these parties doing ANYTHING to get independence OR doing ANYTHING to save the planet

    ALL I see is a shower of PERVERTS and DEVIANTS masquerading as political parties and DELIBERATELY LYING to Scottish voters with the sole intention of sating their revolting deviant desires

    The question for me is WHY, if Peter A Bell and fruitella the hun are aware that these 2 political parties are deliberately LYING to the electorate regarding their policies and intentions WHY are they encouraging people to vote for these parties

  67. SusanAHF says:

    Hear hear twathater

  68. stonefree says:

    @ Geoff Anderson at 12:28 pm
    Be loud and lie, Be vocal and lie, Tell folk how wonderfully clever you are
    Repeat till morning, it’s the Sturgeon way

  69. TORBAIN says:

    ‘The only army the Italians have ever beaten is another Italian army’. I cannot remember the source of this but it is also applicable to Giugliano, who only has success when his opposition is his own side.

    Colin Keir was a respected councillor before going on to win Edinburgh Western for SNP after beating Margaret Smith of the Lib Dem’s, who had held the Edinburgh West seat prior to the boundary change. Although he did not have a high national profile, he worked hard for his constituents, was well respected and was a solid and unselfish campaigner who would have held the seat. The campaign against Keir led by Giugliano was unfair and vicious, however given that he passed vetting for further campaigns, his actions were sanctioned by the leadership. He went on to campaign on issues of mental health and gay rights , certainly areas I don’t have any issues with, but they are not the voters priorities, and talk of independence was pushed down to a footnote. He had lost many of the activists who had worked hard to secure the seat with his arrogance and sense of entitlement. Many were deeply unhappy with how he had filled up the CA with his acolytes and his treatment of Keir. He went on to lose the seat against the ACH then also lost the Westminster equivalent seat against Jardine. Edinburgh Western is now a lost cause with the likes of trans Amber Roberts on the CA (who previously stated was too scared to go out in the leafy suburb of Corstorphine due to the roaming gangs of transphobic murderers! )

    Giugliano is a serial failure and a possibly the worst campaigner in SNP’s history. On three occasions he was gifted an open goal in soft, easily won seats. Instead of following the national campaign and booting the ball firmly and squarely between this posts, he decided to be a smart arse show pony, self-indulgently doing keepie uppies in the 6 yard box before falling flat on his arse and blowing the whole game. In fairness it is not all his fault, someone who clearly has his own self interests at heart and who is incapable of running a credible campaign should never have been allowed to pass vetting.

    It is obvious that he wants to lead the Yes campaign in exchange for a generous salary. He wants to hand pick a small team of loyalists and friends as regional organisers whose names we could all pick out of Sturgeon’s Twitler Youth Legion. There is no doubt he would force out anyone with gender critical views or those who criticise his lack of ability. The Yes brand is owned by SNP annd there is no place for those out worth the party. Many of us who have pounded the pavements for SNP and Yes over the decades will no longer go out for this cult of opportunists.

    I am adamant that if he had not made such an arse of the Dumbarton campaign we would currently be negotiating our exit from the UK after having won a referendum, secured by SNP having a majority in Holyrood. If he is appointed to lead the Yes campaign then independence will not ever happen.

  70. Johnlm says:

    @Twathater 5.27pm
    The Overton window has been decisively moved even for apparently sane people.

    The Overton window is an approach to identifying the ideas that define the spectrum of acceptability of governmental policies. It says politicians can act only within the acceptable range. Shifting the Overton window involves proponents of policies outside the window persuading the public to expand the window.

    Heterosexuality, climate debate and c*vid discussion (among others topics) are outside this window.
    even on mainstream blogs.

  71. Charles (not the R one) says:

    John Main says:
    28 May, 2023 at 5:10 pm

    Glasgow ULEZ starts Thursday coming.


    I think he’s correct.
    I also think that more and more people will avoid driving to Glasgow for any reason, if they can get what they want somewhere else.

    Emissions in Glasgow may well go down, but so too will the turnover and profitability of the many businesses losing their customers.

    Bus lanes, Bicycle lanes, Low Emission Zones, are not even thinly disguised ploys to screw money from hapless motorists.

    So the businesses start to close down, jobs are lost, commercial rates are not paid, streets become deserted.
    Then the betting shops, off-licences, and sun-bed Parlours move in.

    That just what Scotland needs – more gambling, more drinking, and fake sun-tans.

    It is that simple.

  72. fruitella the hun says:

    Em, Twathater

    I’m not advocating a vote for the Green Party. Why? Because it is run as a vehicle for a communist group and some Stonewall folk to push their own agenda which I oppose.

    I am advocating that the alternatives, particularly Alba, pay attention to the 220000 green VOTERS who, more or less, supported independence in 2021. There are many more green-minded people who do not support independence and if they look here they likely never will, with the ridiculous charge from you and Red (Adair?) that they (we, I self-id as an environmentalist) are all perverts.

    You know what they used to infer about the most virulent anti-homosexuals…

    Then there is the kind of thing Billy Carlin says – what happened to teaching everybody the basics of physics? Has it gone or did he manage to dodge it? Do you agree with him? Same question to Red.

  73. James Che says:

    North Code.

    Also the same people whom consider there are too many humans on the planet of the lower echelons causing a carbon foot print.

    As I understand humans are partly carbon.

  74. James Cheyne says:

    Carbon is one of the most critical needs for the planet to stay alive.
    Carbon has been produced by the trees bogs, and natural animals since the planet begun, even before humans had industrialisation.

    It has sustained the earth this long,

    I always argue that if the politicians and elite believed there was a climate crises the first thing they would do, is stop blowing the planet and everything on it to pieces with war weapons, do they believe the planet is on its last legs.
    Does’ nt seem so.
    And nuclear weapons would not be parked in Scotland,

    They do not believe saving the planet.

    And the next thing they would do is fine the big Corporations for making plastic, not the people or the consumer,
    The politicians and governments could refuse licences and registration to the big Corporations, but they Don’t.

    This is about controlling the little guys like you and me. Not the big guys,

  75. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    The point of Stu’s piece is, I think, that a narrow sectionalist approach to elections is a loosing one.
    You are of course correct that if we want to secure a strong majority for independence we need to be welcoming and inclusive.
    The one key policy should be independence with all else contingent

    Inclusive not exclusive

  76. James Che says:

    Opps wrong name at top, too busy eating my supper,
    I will regroup after substanence level are up.

  77. James Che says:

    Twathater, I second that, hear hear, well spoken.

  78. Joe says:

    ‘Do you agree with him?’


    We have had climate hysteria blasted to us for a long time now. Disaster point after disaster point has passed with no appreciable effects.

    Are they lying?

    Well consider that any property on the coast at sea level is thus in the danger zone. So why are banks still giving long term mortgages to people to buy these properties? Why is it not a factor in insurance?

    People like Barack Obama who talk constantly of the coming disaster of rising sea levels purchases a mansion right on the sea?

    But why would they do such a thing?

    Here’s a few reasons:
    – generates a new source of taxation
    – allows the creation of ‘green’ policies that will help to crush smaller businesses so the global corporations can continue to hoover up the market share (something that also happened due to covid lockdowns)
    – allows the creation of carbon credits that are traded on financial exchanges. The kind of money that can be made from the fee’s involved hosting this stuff is insane. We have been able to trade carbon credits for some time now, its only a matter of getting it down to the public using them.
    – allows the creation of draconian laws that people would normally utterly oppose.

    Environmentalism has been hijacked and its proponents turned into voting fodder for what is an agenda of increased elite control

  79. Dorothy Devine says:

    Northcode,I liked that grammar lesson.

  80. AnneDon says:

    Such is his lack of awareness that he actually blamed Michelle Thomson (who was victim to a vicious media/LibDem campaign for about 3 years) for his lack of success in Edinburgh West.
    I don’t know if he also blamed her for his loss in Dumbarton.

    The LibDems are bastards. That’s always worth repeating, in case anyone has forgotten Cole-Hamilton’s role in Edinburgh West, or the fact their “new” leader Ed Davey was part of Cameron/Clegg’s Cabinet and ushered in austerity.

  81. Iain mhor says:

    @Peter A Bell 2:42pm

    I’m not quite clear how any setback for the SNP is a setback for ‘Scotland’s cause’ – that reeks of conflation.

    We know the SNP cannot, and will not do anything to advance ‘Scotland’s cause’ for a bare minumum of 5 years, and probably 10 – if ever.

    Never mind empirical evidence over the last decade, they have said as much themselves – unless all these SNP talking heads like Mr Guigliano, are rogue agents – up to and including Humza Yousef himself.

    Unless by ‘realpolitick’ you mean there is a great game afoot, and invisible, clandestine SNP hands (and others?) are actually on the cusp of oversetting Westminster – anyyy minute now, anyyy minute…

    So why shouldn’t ‘Scotland’s cause’ regroup, and reform during the fallow period? If the SNP doesn’t follow suit, then so much the worse for them.

    It doesn’t matter who takes constituency seats for Westminster, or how many, or who has a majority at Holyrood any more.
    Unionist parties don’t need to sell, and deliver Unionism – we’ve already got it – they’ll have to sell something else.

    Nothing indicates Scotland wants the emasculation of Holyrood, direct rule and ‘Hard Unionism’, so the Unionist parties can’t sell that.

    “A vote for us is a vote for fewer powers”? The Scottish electorate may seem daft, but they’re not that daft

    The Unionist parties absolutely will have to deliver for Scotland – and hit the ground running to boot – Devo Max vows, and fulfilling the Smith commission recommendations will be a bare minimum.

    Delivering that will still be advancing ‘more powers’ and more powers IS ‘Scotland’s cause’ – it is the Gradualism so beloved of the SNP.

    If the Unionist parties don’t deliver, and set Scotland on a prosperous road, then it will just as swiftly be a ‘setback’ for them next round of elections.

    If Devo was supposedly a trap for Independence, it’s equally a trap for Unionism – the more they deliver for Scotland, the worse for them – and deliver they must.

    Nothing indicates that the independent minded are becoming less so, or that a weak SNP will make them so.
    I mean, what are we going to be told next exactly “If you cause the SNP a ‘setback’ you won’t get a referendum”

    Aha-ha, and a couple of extra ha’s.

    If you have a good ‘realpolitick’ rationale, then please do explain it – otherwise it’s so much googly eyes and ‘trusssst in meeee’

  82. James Che says:

    Charles ( not the R one) .

    There is a excellent video put on you tube by the SSRG with regards Councils ( Edinburgh) in this case and political matters,

    The local Councils in Scotland cannot join in with politics such as gender issues or carbon foot print politics

    It is better explained by SSRG than second hand by myself. Education may win the day when it comes to ULEZ.

  83. Northcode says:

    @Dorothy Devine 6:50pm

    Thanks, Dorothy. Just having a wee bit of fun.

    It’s interesting, though, how much of the English language we take for granted.

    And sometimes it’s useful to know why sentences are structured the way they are.

    Especially when the MSM and their like try to manipulate us .

  84. David Hannah says:

    Ever since chief of police Livingstone stated that police Scotland are institutionally racist, sexist, mysogynistic and homophobic.

    Mike Russell says an Independent Scotland needs to be woke.

    Today. Nicola’s crime writing pal. Val McDermid says the raid on Nicola’s hims fuelled by mysogyny.

    Keep a close eye on the bullshit they come out with over the next few days. All total bullshit. They want a corrupt chief of police in place using equality and diversity as a disguise for their corruption.

    When I read pish like this from val McDermid I smell a scurrying rat in the halls of power calling in favours.

  85. Northcode says:

    @James Che 6:42pm

    This the sort of thing that happens when you try to type and eat yer tea at the same time.

    And I bet there’s food crumbs doon the cracks o yer keyboard noo.

  86. Geri says:

    ‘policy convener’ my arse.

    Sturgeon just made up job titles for these arseholes.
    You couldn’t knobble four together to make one half decent politician.
    All that’s missing is the Banjo with most of the NuSNP.

    This clown can take all the time he likes OUTSIDE of government.
    They’ll be gone.
    They Yes movement will continue on without these wasters. They’d only drag us down further.

  87. Anton Decadent says:

    Re ULEZ, any motorist who is fined for this should refuse to pay until the law on riding electrically powered vehicles on the pavements is also enforced in Glasgow.

  88. Beauvais says:

    The task Toni Giugliano and Jamie Hepburn have been given is to sap enthusiasm for independence whilst trying to give the appearance of working towards it.

  89. chic.mcgregor says:

    @David Hannah 7:07

    In a real democracy Iain Livingstone, having made his revelations, would be summoned before a Scottish Parliamentary Committee to answer the very obvious questions of public interest that his statement invoked.

    Of course since we do not live in anything like a real democracy, that is never going to happen.

    However, if by some miracle this did happen and knowing the (euphemism alert) shortcomings of our elected representatives, I hereby proffer a list of questions that I’m sure would occur to most of the electorate and which they would like to hear answers for.

    1) What attempts at resolving the issues you highlight did you make during your tenure?

    2) When did you first realise those were not working?

    3) Did you attempt to inform anyone in political authority when you realised they were not working? If so what response did you get?

    4) Why did you not go public with your concerns at the time rather than wait until you left service? Did anyone in political authority suggest you should maintain silence on your concerns or was that your own decision?

    5) What new measures have you considered may work that your successor might consider trying?

    As I said, no expectation at all that anything like this will happen. It is something the First Minister should be demanding but instead all we witnessed was an immediate congratulations for the police chief’s ‘bravery’. I’m sure that surprised no one here.

  90. velofello says:

    Closing down Scotland’s oil and gas production.

    Take comfort that the pioneering initiative proposed by the Scottish Green party will doubtless result in Saudi Arabia, Norway,Iraq, Iran ,India, Nigeria etc etc., also ceasing oil and gas extraction.

  91. Tinto Chiel says:

    David Hannah 7.07: “When I read pish like this from Val McDermid I smell a scurrying rat in the halls of power calling in favours.”

    She’s a Radio 4 luvvie, (always a bad sign). Have to say I experienced one of her “Tartan Noir” volumes in one of those forlorn throwaway libraries which you sometimes encounter in hotels abroad. After sampling just a few pages of one of her “classics”, I was shocked by the gratuitous descriptions of violence and torture perpetrated on female characters.

    At the time I felt that if a male author had written such exploitive and distasteful crapola, he would have been attacked as an exponent of literary “toxic masculinity” (or whatever cancel-culture term might be in vogue at the time by the Wokey Folky).

    Never mind, I’m sure that volume (despite the double standards) would have been on one of Nikla’s “I heart book” lists.

    In short, Wee Nikki struggles to attain middle-brow reading level, which is probably good training for the WHO/UNESCO/WEF post which she craves.

    Now that she thinks she’s off the hook and able to spread her Trans Ally wings, she looks even more deranged and malicious.

    A nasty piece of work, innit?

  92. Dan says:

    @ velofello

    Ach, it’s a relatively simple modification to convert an existing petrol internal combustion engined vehicle to run on lentil flatulence.
    After a decent portion of dahl, a hose connected into the intake system and the other end inserted into the ass, and a wee bit of tweaking to the ignition map to optimise combustion of the new fuel should be all that’s required.
    The only flaw I see in this is that we don’t grow significant amounts of lentils in Scotland. Plus if we did then A Scot Abroad would no doubt rock up and tells us they are the wrong type of lentils…

  93. Robert Hughes says:

    @ Joe

    ” Environmentalism has been hijacked and its proponents turned into voting fodder for what is an agenda of increased elite control ” .

    Correct .

    Just another manufactured * crisis * . O how the Elite/s love a * crisis * .

    It’s fckn obvious we shouldn’t be poisoning our oceans , rivers and land with the detritus of our disposable , junk culture . Or laying waste to vast swathes of our tropical forests – not only the ” lungs of the Planet ” , also a cornucopia of medically and * spiritually * beneficial plants : not to mention the home of some of oldest surviving native cultures . Now , barely surviving .

    Like with Covid , the * Science * is being used to create the illusion Global Warming is a closed case . We humans are the problem ; at least , we * ordinary * humans , the hoi polloi , the wretched of the Earth . It’s all our fault , and we can be absolutely certain the superior beings ie ..Homo Woko will zealously ensure the poorest pay the heaviest price not only economically but in more and more restrictions of their/our personal freedom/s .

    I’m increasingly persuaded it’s the Sun wot dunnit – is doin it – n the Net Zero fantasy/agenda will result in net zero ability of the common man/woman to have any say in what happens to them or their communities .

    Not that they have much now , but we can see even close at hand via the Poundland Machiavellis of Nu SnP how all politics/politicians now is about excluding the people as much as possible ( whilst wittering pish about ” Inclusion ” ) imposing without consent , or even consultation : because they know best. Aye so ye dae .

    That mindset , with it’s Globalist , ” You’ll do what we tell you – for the Planet , natch ” ambitions is only going to get worse under what will amount to a Green dictatorship .

    Question everything .

  94. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tinto Chiel (9.27) –

    Aye, we discussed this a long time ago.

    Sturgeon has never, so far as I’m aware, evidenced any awareness of quality literature. That may sound a bit condescending but citizens of any nation are entitled to expect their leaders to be well informed, curious people with a good general knowledge and at least some areas of expertise.

    Sturgeon has made much of her addiction to reading. That’s admirable, I suppose, but it’s an unfortunate fact that she appears to read nothing but 3-for-2 trash. I’ve never heard her reference any historical/philosophical works, ever, and would be surprised to find that her general knowledge of Scotland’s history is even close to that of an average Higher Grade student. That’s no hanging offence, aye, but in someone who ‘led the nation’ for eight years? Nah. Unacceptable.

    Mind you, the Fourth Estate in this country can’t be said to have tested her at any time. Perhaps their History isn’t up to scratch either?

    And so far as Val McDermid’s work goes, the final line from Orwell’s ‘Benefit of Clergy essay seems apt: ‘It is diseased and disgusting and any investigation ought to start out from that fact.’

  95. Ian Brotherhood says:

    In the Hugh MacDiarmid clip posted the other night he refers to Lord Action (??) saying complimentary things about Scotland. (1min40secs)

    Have been hunting via Google and can’t find the original source.

    Anyone happen to know it?

  96. President Xiden says:

    1970’s ‘Free by ‘73’
    1980’s ‘It’s Scotland’s Oil’
    1990’s ‘Yes we can’
    2000’s ‘We stand for Scotland’.
    2010’s ‘Stronger for Scotland’.
    2920’s ‘ Women can have penises’.

  97. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Robert Hughes: yes indeed but it’s not new, really.

    As H.L. Mencken said decades ago, “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

    Euripides seems to have coined, “Question everything” almost 2,500 years ago but I do wish more of us would follow his advice. You’d probably have to disengage from the MSM, though.

    I used to take the global warming stuff at face value and even wondered if Al Gore might have something valuable to say on the subject but post-Covid I see all the usual suspects: highly dubious computer “modelling” (SISO), a massive state-sponsored fear campaign against the populace and massive amounts of money pumped into the nonsensical Green Agenda where (poor) people are the problem, getting in the way of plutocrat full-spectrum dominance to return us to feudal levels of poverty and oppression (and let’s just forget the wee black kids digging the rare earths in appalling conditions in The Congo, Greta).

    Adding AI to the mix only makes things more difficult, sadly: potentially another foot stamping on a human face, forever.

  98. Northcode says:

    @Ian Brotherhood 10:04pm

    “Sturgeon has made much of her addiction to reading. That’s admirable, I suppose, but it’s an unfortunate fact that she appears to read nothing but 3-for-2 trash. I’ve never heard her reference any historical/philosophical works, ever”

    Maybe this is why, Ian

    This excerpt from Alf Baird’s paper 4 of his 10 part series on Yours For Scotland.

    It’s from the section headed – Frantz Fanon.

    Middle class elites running the National Party are not intellectuals and do not fully appreciate their purpose so they will look to promote other ‘priorities’.

  99. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian B: I couldn’t make out Auld Hugh properly but think he might have been referring to Lord Acton. He was quite a quotation-spinner 😉 .

  100. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian B 10.04: strangely enough, I was testing my waning mental powers last week by re-reading Dickens’ Little Dorrit, a tome which I first read in 1972.

    Not very far in, I encountered the Circumlocution Office, the grossly incompetent and corrupt Civil Service department where Hope goes to Die under the motto of “How Not To Do It”.

    Seemed a perfect metaphor for Humza and his utter team of fudricks.

    Who pure sed great literature was dead?

  101. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tinto Chiel (10.30) –

    I’m sure he was but I would prefer a quote from Lord Action. It would probably be more exciting.


  102. SteepBrae says:

    Isn Brotherhood 10.19pm

    As Tinto Chiel suggests, it could have been Lord Acton, historian, politician and writer, 1834 – 1902.

    One of his well-known quotes begins:
    “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men…”

    He wrote about Nationality.

  103. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian B 10.47: “I’m sure he was but I would prefer a quote from Lord Action. It would probably be more exciting.”

    You are awful, etc.

    Main problem is that yon Lord Adonis was a bit of a let-down, innit? Never trust a lord.

    In the meantime, is it just me or are policemen looking younger nowadays 🙂 ?

  104. Robert Hughes says:

    @ Tinto C .

    Yes , to all of that .

    You will have seen the ridiculous spectacle of Profit of Doom and laughably wrong in EVERYTHING he’s predicted buffoon AI Gore getting into a paroxsym of insane babbling – ” boiling oceans , atmospheric rivers ( whatever the fuck they might be ) , rain bombs ( ditto ) ” – at some recent Globalist bash .

    The fact that he’s made a fortune from the * Green * agenda he promotes is of course incidental .

    And we’re supposed to take these clowns seriously ?

  105. Tinto Chiel says:

    @ Robert Hughes: yes, I almost fell out of my Bath chair when he claimed global warming was reaching multiple-Hiroshima levels of energy release/temperature rise (at least that’s what I took from his gibberish).

    These types are seriously deranged (but massively enriched via Green carbon-capture schemes, etc) but how many of our MPs or MSPs raise the feeblest objection? Square root of zero.

    A functioning democracy requires a functioning and critical opposition and there ain’t one, in HR or WM.

  106. Aquarius says:

    I am in the West Dunbartonshire constituency. Although I did not vote Labour, I sent Jackie Baillie an email before the Holyrood Election asking her if sghe would accept that a vote for her from an Independenc voter would not be accepted by her as a vote for the union. She agreed but, of course, had forgotten this by the time she made her speech on election night.

    A contributor further up the comments suggested that had Toni Giugliano been voted in we would have had our Independence. I wholeheartedly disagree.

    Firstly, he, as had been stated here, is as woke as they come and I would never vote for such a duplicitous man, purporting to stand for independence but actually standing for “trans rights” at the expense of women and girls.

    Secondly because the SNP could have declared Scotland independent at the time Brexit was going through as the departure from the EU of a joint signatory to the Treaty of Union against its declared will was in breadch of the Treaty. That would have been a far better way to spend money on Legal Fees than the rubbish NS spent it on e.g the Referendum Supreme Court case and the Alex Salmond business.

    How could anyone vote for a party so manifestly corrupt as to interweave the £600,000 through the accounts but not have it any more?

    Sorry, but by the time the Holyrood vote came round I had already decided never to vote SNP again.

    Nothing I have come across since has served to alter this view.

  107. fruitella the hun says:

    Scot 6.23

    “The point of Stu’s piece is, I think, that a narrow sectionalist approach to elections is a loosing one.
    “You are of course correct that if we want to secure a strong majority for independence we need to be welcoming and inclusive.
    “The one key policy should be independence with all else contingent
    “Inclusive not exclusive”

    Not sure what you mean here. Alba book goes pretty strong on independence as a means of dealing with climate change. Yet just below the surface on here are posters who seem to resent all things green and even deny that there is a CO2 problem, using their ESP to judge the credibility of the scientists doing the research.

    Are you suggesting that we should keep off divisive topics? The effects of CO2 on global temperatures are well accepted. The few who reject this seem to be vectors for a range of conspiracy theories (perhaps disingenuously, hard to tell). I wonder if that is driven by a dislike of anybody with the gall to advocate restrictions for environmental reasons on some personal freedoms they value. Still can’t figure if Billy Carlin’s offering is satire.

    I’ll side with these folk for an independence campaign, a constitutional issue, but we are on different sides on nearly every policy area after that. We should make that a feature, not see it as a weakness we ought to hide – I doubt we can hide it and we did not do so last time.

  108. Alf Baird says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 10:04 pm

    “Sturgeon has never, so far as I’m aware, evidenced any awareness of quality literature.”

    Aime Cesaire reminds us of a further difficulty with a colonial elite and bourgeoisie, in that: “One cannot say that the petty bourgeois has never read anything. On the contrary, he has read everything, devoured everything. Only, his brain functions after the fashion of certain elementary types of digestive systems. It filters. And the filter lets through only what can nourish the thick skin of the bourgeois’s clear conscience.”

    To the co-opted Scottish elites and bourgeoisie the very idea that we are and remain a colonised nation and people upsets their digestion.

  109. Anton Decadent says:

    Intellectuals are the shoeshine boys of the ruling elite.

  110. Big Jock says:

    Are the SNP now playing the “Everybody hates us we don’t care” songbook. It certainly looks like they have zero humility.

    They screwed up independence, took £600k then denied it, wrecked a once great party, brought the police to the door, did nothing with 8 mandates,and tried to imprison an innocent man.

    Now they are threatening yes voters! This is definitely the end of the SNP. They are nothing more than dictatorial bullies. Well Scotland won’t be bullied by these half wits. The end can’t come soon enough.

  111. Big Jock says:

    Stalin called for a live chicken and proceeded to use it to make an unforgettable point before some of his henchmen. Forcefully clutching the chicken in one hand, with the other he began to systematically pluck out its feathers. As the chicken struggled in vain to escape, he continued with the painful denuding until the bird was completely stripped. “Now you watch,” Stalin said as he placed the chicken on the floor and walked away with some bread crumbs in his hand. Incredibly, the fear-crazed chicken hobbled toward him and clung to the legs of his trousers. Stalin threw a handful of grain to the bird, and it began to follow him around the room, he turned to his dumbfounded colleagues and said quietly, “This is the way to rule the people. Did you see how that chicken followed me for food, even though I had caused it such torture? People are like that chicken. If you inflict inordinate pain on them they will follow you for food the rest of their lives.”

  112. robertkknight says:

    Giugliano must be a Mel Brooks fan – the whole ‘vote SNP or Indy gets it’ approach being lifted straight from Blazing Saddles. He must recon on Yes supporters being as gullible as the townspeople here…

  113. PacMan says:

    Sturgeon has never, so far as I’m aware, evidenced any awareness of quality literature. That may sound a bit condescending but citizens of any nation are entitled to expect their leaders to be well informed, curious people with a good general knowledge and at least some areas of expertise.

    Don’t get sucked into Sturgeon’s carefully crafted social media image.

    The evidence of her awareness of quality literature or anything else including self-awareness has been many times when she has been put on the spot by either political communities or the odd time when journalists did their job properly.

  114. Robert Hughes says:

    ” The few who reject this seem to be vectors for a range of conspiracy theories ”

    Never takes long for the * conspiracy theories ” theory to be hauled-out .

    Do people like you think yr fckn Wittgensteins by using this stupid term to rubbish anything you don’t agree with ? Yr no . Yr just people who believe a certain thing and have convinced yourself your interpretation of ” Reality ” is beyond argument, and in this instance eg Global Warming …you have no incontrovertible evidence that it’s predominantly man-made other than what’s claimed by the so-called ” Scientific Consensus ” , and , as with Covid , any counter interpretation is ruthlessly suppressed , ridiculed and – if the zealots get their way – will ultimately become criminalised like eg Holocaust Denial ( something I personally don’t deny BTW ) .

    The great conceit of conventional ” Science ” is encapsulated in the notion ” we used to THINK * that * , now we KNOW * this * . This , of course , is how the great human achievement that is the scientific method has evolved . The point being …..what we think we KNOW today can be overturned tomorrow , but we’re making ( or having them made for us ) society-upending decisions based on a * consensus * that is a best putative and seems certain to benefit certain sectors at the expense of the majority .

    When I see cunts like those that frequent the ever-proliferating ” Global Warming Crisis ” shindigs actually give-up their luxurious , carbon-squandering lifestyles I might be more inclined to take them seriously . But I doubt it

  115. Geoff Anderson says:

    The Green tail is wagging the SNP dog

  116. Dan says:

    Re. Environmental matters

    I don’t think polarising the matter to the point of antagonising folk is helpful. But surely it is sensible to consider ways to address the clear problems with the current over production and consumption model we use.
    The huge amount of money being spaffed away on the DRS might have been better spent if there was a concerted national campaign to educate and motivate the public to use better practices which would help to reduce consumption of superfluous products, and also better deal with the waste we generate in our existing waste management schemes in our 32 local authority areas.

    As someone that has spent a great deal of voluntary time over the years clearing miles of roadsides of tonnes of litter and fly-tipped waste it a sad reminder that a great deal of folk just do not give a fuck or consider for one minute how their actions affect the land we live on and the folk that work that land.
    My village has a bottle bank, yet nearly every bin day when general waste is being collected I can hear the distinct sound of glass breaking as bins are cowped into the bin lorry. And on occasion I hear that same sound when the recyclables bins are emptied, which means some dense idiot neighbour can’t be arsed walking a few hundred meters to the bottle bank, nor has read the list of what goes in that bin, and also hasn’t considered that shards of broken glass contaminating and entire lorry load of recyclable waste is a problem.
    Stated a good while back btl that there should be a deposit scheme for all these disposable vapes folks are huffing on these days. Thousands of chunks of plastic and alloy being thrown away is one thing, but the lithium batteries will degrade and breakdown into the land and water courses.
    Plus the batteries can short out as they pass through general waste processing equipment with the potential to cause fires.

  117. Charles (not the R one) says:

    It is pertinent to note where on the SNP dog its tail is.

    As with most dogs I’ve seen, it’s right at the arse end, the shithole of the dog.

  118. Xaracen says:

    A Scot Abroad said (in an earlier thread);


    far too much guff and self-assertion from you. The fact remains that nobody in the international community is going to recognise the ancient claptrap you come up with. All that they are going to recognise is a 50%+1 vote under U.K. law.”

    ASA, far too much guff and self-assertion from you. Your self-asserted fact re the international community is nothing more than your wishful thinking.

    My ‘ancient claptrap’ is Scotland’s venerable constitutional bedrock to you, because when push comes to shove, it all comes down to the sovereignty of nations, and Scotland’s sovereignty is an absolute fact, no more and no less than England’s sovereignty is an absolute fact. Westminster’s assertion of its sovereignty on the other hand is solely England’s and thus constrained within the borders of that Kingdom, essentially encompassing England, Wales and Northern Ireland if even that. North of the border, it has no sovereignty, only a limited degree of authority granted by the old Scottish parliament and monarch via the Treaty, and obviously that authority is conditional on it continuing to respect the Treaty’s terms.

    Scotland’s sovereignty gives us Scots in our own country some undeniable rights and protections that Westminster’s English establishment cannot legally overrule, yet it does so regularly, and that establishment thinks it is untouchable. It is wrong; ask Boris Johnson if his smackdown over his illegal proroguing of Parliament still smarts. There have been others.

    UK law is limited to domestic matters, and even in that domain it doesn’t have free rein, especially in Scotland. If Scotland’s sovereign people decide to ask themselves a perfectly sensible question regarding the continuance of the Union, Westminster has insufficient authority of any kind to legitimately deny them the means to express and apply their sovereign will.

    This will be my last response to you. You don’t listen, you don’t justify your assertions, you don’t respect others, you don’t address any of the points made to you, and above all, you don’t deserve any more of my attention. I will leave you with this;

    Other smackdowns are in the pipeline, and the Union won’t survive them.

  119. fruitella the hun says:

    Robert Hughes

    I’m guessing you are not a scientist. Neither am I. What you call “the scientific consensus” I would call the scientific method and am well aware of its inherent uncertainty – something you encounter when trying to get “facts” out of them. You mention a philosopher which I interpret as intellectual signalling. Nothing wrong with that, I don’t hate intellectuals or think them all perverts (some are, of course). Many do tend to belittle others in that frightfully polite but still arrogant style, but that’s neither here nor there in the great scheme of things.

    You are, I think, claiming I am doing that by referring to Billy Carlin’s post stacked by classic conspiracy theories. Well, over the years, I have heard them before, given them some attention and usually come to the conclusion that whether or not there is any truth to be found in them, we’ll never really know, their essential component is unknowns. Therefore best to concentrate on policy responses to known problems. However I do not dismiss people because they are taken with one or two “conspiracy theories” which have little bearing on their ability to be reasonable decent folk. Half a dozen is getting into the body-swerve territory though.

    Ecological destruction is a measured known problem.

    The control of the energy we have become dependent on by a super-rich cabal (nuclear, obviously but oil and gas too) is a known problem.

    The policy responses to this have many opponents who, it seems, would rather stick with the problem and hope it either sorts itself or that they can insulate themselves from the damage it causes. Then there are those who deny there is a problem at all. I don’t see them as allies.

  120. desimond says:

    So is Tony saying he thinks Jamie Hepburn being appointed Minister for Independence in March 2023 was incorrect as it should be another gig that a Blair Jenkins could pick up and drive very very slowly of a cliff?

  121. John Main says:

    Crivens help m’boab. Wings turning highbrow.

    Amazing what we can collectively achieve when we think Rev Stu is looking over our shoulders, Suspension Pen at the ready.

    Regarding literature and culture. Who said “To possess a second language is to possess a second soul”? Plenty of literature out there writing about the soul of the Gael. And recently, Alf writing about how the Scots language links to his soul.

    So, a question. How many languages does HY possess. OK, 2 questions. What are these languages, and what are the implications for his soul?

    Regarding Global Climate Change. The recognised stages of denial are:

    1 It’s not happening.
    2 it’s happening, but it’s no us.
    3 it’s happening, it’s us, but there’s nothing we can do.
    4 it’s happening, it’s us, we can stop it, but it’s too expensive.
    5 it’s happening, it’s us, we can stop it, stopping it is cheaper than letting it happen, but why should we cos the Indians, chinese, yanks, etc etc.

    I really thought we were all at least at stage 5. Innarestin, if fundamentally depressing, to read posts at all stages from 1 onwards.

  122. John Main says:

    Of course, there’s another take on this “global climate change, so live within your means” approach.

    Few on here would deny that we used to live well beyond our means, simply by stealing other country’s and nation’s surpluses.

    Few on here would be prepared to do what is necessary to maintain that imbalance. Quite the contrary.

    The consensus is that our ancestors were bad to behave as they did, and that we are much smarter, and just all round nicer, than they were.

    The corollary to that is that as a country and a nation we have to live within our means. As most of us have readily accepted that we are guilty of our ancestor’s acts and racial stereotyping, it is not difficult for the elites to add an extra layer of guilt with little pushback.

    As we are all told, global climate change will affect others far more than it will affect us.

    Handy to have that guilt already in place, just ripe for exploitation.

  123. desimond says:

    After I posted about Jamie Hepburn our Minister of Independence, I remembered this classic – The SNP leader has created a new role of “head of strategic delivery” for Julie Hepburn, who is married to key minister Jamie Hepburn.

    That just sounds so W1A…next stop a Head of Values appointment

  124. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    To clarify regarding my comments in our previous exchange, I was inferring that it will be necessary to coalesce around the need for independence and to put up with individual differences within that coalition.

    This obviously doesn’t mean that we can’t disagree with each other but we can’t afford to fall out completely. It is a skilful maintenance of this coalition which is the path to independence.

    You are correct in saying that a policy response is needed to the damage caused to our environment.
    I think this needs to be in the areas of the greatest pollution – India, China etc.
    Scotland can’t afford to stop drilling for oil and gas but it does need to set a lower tax environment to encourage further investment

  125. SteepBrae says:

    Something was mentioned recently about concentrating on policy, not procedure. I cannot remember where but it was someone in Scottish Government. Maybe others noticed. A tweet maybe?

    The problem is that when policy makers don’t understand procedure and if they bungle the process, the policy isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on – now a familiar scenario, sadly.

    “A policy is a rule, regulation, or set of guidelines. A process is a high level set of things that must happen outlining what must happen in order to ensure compliance with a policy. A procedure is a specific, detailed series of actions that staff members must take in order to implement a process and comply with a policy”.

    A neat wee quote that shows why it’s necessary to join up policy, process & procedure and listen to people rather than turn a deaf ear. Of course, a confident and competent government would be joining these up.

  126. fruitella the hun says:


    This is the difficult bit. Scotland’s environmental problems are a consequence of a cheap energy regime. We have used the energy to modify and simplify ecosystems and distribute their produce to remote markets. It is this process, and the infrastructure required, that is destroying the natural systems we used to harvest reasonably sustainably. We don’t know for sure how this will affect us in the short term but the responses we see in uninsulated nature don’t bode well.

    To some of us atheists the Creator is the natural world functioning naturally, not supernaturally. Scotland is doing this damage for ease and profit despite having a level population. There is no excuse, unless getting elected by promising oil-based prosperity to the masses is a more sacred priority. It has worked as a scam up to now. But poverty and want are as present as ever therefore the underlying economic theory is cobblers.

    Anyway, what is the policy on India that we need to address first?

  127. highlander says:

    Xaracen says:
    29 May, 2023 at 9:18 am

    Scotland’s sovereignty gives us Scots in our own country some undeniable rights and protections that Westminster’s English establishment cannot legally overrule, yet it does so regularly, and that establishment thinks it is untouchable. It is wrong; ask Boris Johnson if his smackdown over his illegal proroguing of Parliament still smarts. There have been others.


    You do know that the SC overruled the scots court findings on propagation of parliament?

  128. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    What is the policy on India (and China) which takes precedence
    Their levels of pollution and the consequences thereof are of a much greater scale than ours

  129. Xaracen says:

    highlander said;

    “You do know that the SC overruled the scots court findings on propagation of parliament?”

    I do not because it did no such thing. Boris was ordered to recall Parliament because his prorogation was both justiciable and unlawful.

    From Wikipedia;

    In early September 2019, judges in the High Court of Justice, and the Outer House of the Court of Session—the English and Scottish civil courts of first instance—ruled that the matter was not subject to judicial review as it was a political decision; an appeal in the latter case to the Inner House of the Court of Session—Scotland’s supreme civil court—overturned the Outer House verdict and ruled the prorogation was justiciable and unlawful. To resolve the differences of opinion between the courts, both cases were appealed to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom which, on 24 September, ruled unanimously in R (Miller) v The Prime Minister and Cherry v Advocate General for Scotland that the prorogation was both justiciable and unlawful; consequently, the Order in Council ordering prorogation was quashed, and the prorogation was deemed “null and of no [legal] effect”. When Parliament resumed on the following day, the prorogation ceremony was expunged from the Journal of the House of Commons and business continued as if the ceremony had never happened.

  130. fruitella the hun says:

    Scot; “It is a skilful maintenance of this coalition which is the path to independence.”

    Who is going to do that? Salmond, Regan and Murray have each criticised a mainstream environmental policy, whether cutting funds for road expansion projects, salvaging 10% of our marine environment by instituting a fallow period for agreed areas, running a deposit scheme on currently disposed containers.

    These are small environmental steps but they wanted to be seen agin them, for some reason. They are nothing to do with the Rainbow Greens. TWAW anger has been harnessed by them to shift the dial on environmental acceptability. That does not strike me as a competent step towards a majority vote for independence. It might prove a good move for grabbing a slot at the trough though. Wheesht for Indy lives?

    You don’t say what policy we (Scotland) should have to deal with climate change. I guess you don’t regard it as significant, compared to inward investment.

  131. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    It is my opinion that Scotland has already put its house largely in order with respect to environmental matters.
    Much more and we will put our future economic growth in serious jeopardy.
    The marine parks are all very well but we need to support our fishing industry.
    North Sea oil and gas will be crucial for our foreign currency earnings post independence, not to say our future security of energy supply.

    As I said further up the thread, if we really want to move the needle regarding climate change we need to target the big polluters China, India and the USA.
    Quite how that can be done is a very difficult question.
    It needs to be done though.

    Putting ourselves in a collective hairshirt is nothing more than fruitless masocism, however we’ll intentioned.

  132. fruitella the hun says:


    That’s clear, you want to pump it to sell it abroad. Then put that front and centre – like John Main says “show them the Fkn money!”.

    “ …we need to target the big polluters China, India and the USA. Quite how that can be done is a very difficult question.
    It needs to be done though.”

    You don’t have a scoobie how though do you?

    You can’t reconcile a policy of pedal-to-the-metal economic growth with an analysis that identifies economic growth as the primary driver of environmental problems. And you say you don’t see the problems anyway.

    By feigning concern your tribe just seem to want to collect environmental votes (because someone has done the sums) whilst going full speed ahead with business as usual. You think we’re daft. Independent statehood is not the primary objective for green voters, it’s instrumental. If we’re not onside many will do what they can to be in your way.

  133. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    How to target the big polluters
    As you know this needs to be an international approach. There are regular conferences where various agreements are reached. The US signed up for emission cuts but Biden failed to get it all through a finely balanced Congress.
    India is going through an infrastructure rebuild and China has been doing the same for 20 years or so.
    India does have a plan on paper for green proposals but these are backed by a billionaire who has just lost a fortune.
    You would need a high calibre world statesman or stateswoman to take the bull by the horns.

    I don’t agree that economic growth is the primary driver of environmental problems.
    It is a particular form of industrial and infrastructural development which is particularly polluting.

  134. fruitella the hun says:


    I’ve got a tremendous sense of deja vu. Think I’ll let this one go.

  135. Scot says:

    Fruitella the hun
    No problem. Good talking with you.

  136. John Main says:

    @fruitella the hun says:29 May, 2023 at 5:38 pm

    like John Main says “show them the Fkn money!”

    It’s a catchy slogan that IMO would build Indy support among those Scots (probably a majority) who care little for conventional politics.

    It would also catch a lot of New Scots, who (whisper it) are in Scotland for what they can grift – no other reason.

    Of course, it’s not ideologically pure enough for the minority of die-hards who want Indy as revenge for Culloden, or whatever.

    Regarding oil & gas: my take is we should use our own, prioritising the profits from it to subsidise our own move to renewables. Millions of us are still using oil and gas to heat our homes, etc and will be doing so for many years yet. Turn off the North Sea tomorrow and that won’t change, except we will now be sending our hard-earned money abroad to buy foreign oil and gas. And we won’t have profits to invest in our own renewables.

    So, shutting down the North Sea before we have weaned ourselves off its products is crass lunacy, or extremist “look at me” virtue signalling.

    These may be synonyms.

    Oh yeah, and we target the big polluters by not buying their stuff. Of course, by making our own alternatives, we make some pollution here. But we are at least being honest about it. And if we are serious, we can work strenuously to make things as clean as possible.

    The virtue signallers hate “dirty” things like manufacturing industries. They like to bask in the glory of how they have improved air and water quality, while pretending that the filth and the near slavery, half a world away so out of sight, does not exist.

  137. fruitella the hun says:

    John Main

    We need to start shifting off oil as quick as possible, not drawing it out as long as possible. Nothing to do with virtue signalling, it is about hardening our economy for the trials ahead.

    My views mostly come from the question “How do we defend a self-sufficient country?” not “what is greenest green we can be?” I treasure the idea of mid 20th century industry with smart updates. Steel may need coal – better that than wasting oil (carbon budget) on heating and stupid transport. And it’s easier to defend.

  138. Fraser Reid says:

    Indy is off the table?

    So why vote SNP at all?

  139. highlander says:

    Xaracen says:
    29 May, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    highlander said;

    “You do know that the SC overruled the scots court findings on propagation of parliament?”

    I do not because it did no such thing. Boris was ordered to recall Parliament because his prorogation was both justiciable and unlawful.

    They overruled on “misled the Queen” because they didn’t know what boris said to the queen. A far few QC’s picked up on it at the time.

  140. Mark Boyle says:

    Derick fae Yell says:
    28 May, 2023 at 4:00 pm

    Realpolitik? 32 years in the SNP. A bloody lorry load of leaflets and money I could have spent on ANYTHING else

    Realpolitik is that if Alba or ISP stand a candidate (and I implore them to do so), I will vote for that candidate.

    As you’re a card carrying ISP shill, it would be strange if you didn’t say that, although your lot’s slagging of Alba of late goes against any remote hopes of ever working together for a common cause.

    “there is already an Indy party with no baggage, detached from, but friendly to Alba and that’s ISP.”

    The sheer irony of that statement!

    I’ll give Alba its due, at least it’s got enough power in its engines to still fly with all its baggage, unlike the gruesome twosome’s balsa wood effort with the rubber band propellor.

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