The conscious uncoupling
Posted on
May 27, 2023 by
Chris Cairns
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Spot on
Bye! Bye! Useless.
Absolutely brilliant. Obviously the SNP carriages are the TRANS – Europe express? Yes movement engine us the Cannon ball express,driving forward choo choo.
Miscarriage
Excellent cartoon.
Indy supporters have had enough of the lies from the SNP grifters. Almost one decade of unparalelled voter support, since 2014, and they have done NOTHING to advance independence. Their MPs living it up in auld London toon.
That’s the SNP gravy train coming to a halt in the cartoon. The indy campaign is moving on without them. At the next election Humza useless and his grifter chums are finished.
Uncoupled seems to sum it up Chris.
Wheel Tappers & Grunters Club go off track!
Such a powerful image. So true. It didn’t have to be like this, but the those currently running the SNP are doubling down. They want to control the entire Yes movement. An impossible task. Forcing everyone to choose. “You are either with us, or against us” is the current message. Well, the train is leaving the station, and I know which side I want to be on. As the image brilliantly shows, there is one side with all the power, about to steam ahead. Those who have deliberately uncoupled themselves are about to be left behind. I wonder how many decent folk will soon jump out of the yellow coach when they realise it ain’t going anywhere.
Excellent! But should have had the wee lion doing the uncoupling, with a big scowl on his face!
Oooooft back o the net Chris.
Pardon me boys, is that the Shat In No Go Choo Choo?
Brilliant as usual, Chris.
Superb – another billboard design!
Excellent cartoon, Chris! Sums the situation up perfectly.
The wee lion should be driving the YES express…
For too long now, 8+ years in fact, the charlatans and troughers have taken for granted their Holy Trinity of Sturgeon, SNP and Yes. I guess the writing is well and truly on the wall, given how desperate some of their rantings have now become. Newsflash for all the charlatans and troughers – You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.
SNP out!
I thought once he got the job Yousaf would have walked back some of the most glaringly unpopular and damaging Sturgeon policies just for self preservation purposes alone but he is doubling down on them. Which is strategic madness for himself personally but he seems to be totally beholden to Sturgeon and indeed it is almost like she never really resigned and is effectively running him behind the scenes. It is just a continuation of the same madness that saw the membership collapse and led to incredibly damaging fiascos like putting rapists into female prisons.
No doubt Yousaf will blame Scots for being too racist when he inevitably fails catastrophically.
I also would have had a sneaky lion’s paw doing the uncoupling. Maybe flicking him the V’s as well for good measure.
Oh very good.
The Yes engine staying on the mainline of course, while the SNP carriage is shunted into a closed branch line.
ScotFail
Another cracker. Says it all.
Great certain Chris, but I can’t help the suspicion that Useless is just continuing NS work of splitting the movement and disarming the yes Champaign as much as possible. There will still be a sizable diehard SNP loyalists who will support the trough feeders.
A great cartoon Chris. They’re conscious of what they’re doing alright. Unfortunately for Yusaf, he doesn’t have the skills of his predecessor Sturgeon, the consummate liar. His lies and contradictions are obvious to anyone who isn’t being willfully blind.
On the running theme of woke insanity deliberately wrecking society bit by bit I thought some of you might find this interesting (and amusing).
The US military is experiencing a recruitment shortage due to going woke (and other things) but I had no idea just how bad it was….
Check out the comments to this recent army recruitment advert!
youtube.com/watch?v=Lwx-2R9swDg&ab_channel=TheU.S.Army
Quite encouraging in many ways.
I would even go as far as to say, ‘The conscious/unconscious uncoupling’.
This is definitely happening.
Just the other day I was applying for a college course for my son and I could not believe the amount of questions about trans shit we had to answer.
I mentioned rant style to the wife who has always voted SNP, about all the trans crap, ‘where is it coming from, who is pushing it’, etc, etc and she turned round and said something along the lines, ‘that’s what happens when you vote SNP’.
I was a bit taken aback as she is not all that political.
So I tried to come back with a yeah well answer and said, ‘Yeah we need to vote for a party like Alba’.
Lol, I’m not even sure she knows anything about Alba.
Having said all that, looking at the Scottish political scene at the moment I do think Alba has got the most amazing opportunity to become a leading force in Scottish politics.
I really do hope they can get the right people and strategies in place to achieve this.
Sufficient amount of shocked surprise to infer Humza still capable of rehitching the wagons if he can find a way to get the dumb buffers back together..
Until then I’ll be happy to imagine Livingston giving it his best Casey Jones whilst tossing his mask from the engine, England for Yes hogging 1st class, and Harvey, Chapman et al doing a half decent lotus on roof of same.
Well done Chris
The current status summed up in one cartoon
Brilliant cartoon. Conscious (and deliberate) uncoupling indeed.
The devolutionist side of the SNP has completely taken over the party now. It is obvious their mission since 2015 has been to remove any vestige of anti-union and pro-independence from their goals, manifesto and ranks. Hence the hiring of so many careerists, gravy train riders and perverts. Hence their allergy to real pro-independence fighters like Mr Salmond or Ms Cherry.
Looking retrospectively, since the political fraud Sturgeon took over, the analogy of the boiling frog fits beautifully what these useless frauds and closeted unioinsts have been doing to the party.
It makes one wonder if the huge influx from labour to the SNP in 2014-15 was in fact “conscious infiltration”.
Final steps of the metamorphosis:
1. to remove the pursuit of independence from the constitution of the party
2. to change the name of the party
And voila! The transformation into New Labour will be complete
I think we should give them what they so desperately are begging for. Do they want to ditch anything to do with independence? Then let’s be generous and help them out by refusing them our anti-union/pro-independence votes. Let them compete for (and divide) the unionist vote with labour, libdems and tories.
Fantasticus! Chris!
And they can all just fuck right off, and when they get to where they fucked off to, they can all just fuck right off again!
Ther. Grifters one and all.
YES I’m afraid the SNP are going it alone and we in the Alba party wish them a safe and extremely short journey to oblivion.
The Sturgeonites were up in arms over this article that was posted post by the Rag and yesterday posted by Wing, just have a look at what people are saying.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/23550628.scottish-independence-off-agenda-snp-lose-general-election/
What’s missing from Chris Cairns’s cartoon is the SNP/Alba warriors on the roof throwing lumps of metaphorical coal at each other.
And let us not forget that while all this infantile squabbling is going on, the British Nationalists are openly planting a bomb under Scotland.
One word, perfect
100%Yes, thanks for that , the comments are wonderful – now wait for the ‘you should have archived that’ brigade to swat you!
@Peter A Bell
I take it you ask to join the SNP again and you got no reply.
Voters have no political levers? The so called pro-independence party.. SNP, has lost the plot, voters could care less, if the party crashes and burns!
The sooner the movement realises focus should be on alternative political agency, the better. Any additional time needed to replace SNP, is time well spent! The status quo, no longer tolerable.
In fact, the sooner SNP is taught a lesson by the electorate, the sooner this situation can be turned around! Holyrood would benefit from fewer SNP seats.
The Indy movement must oust and replace SNP with genuine pro-independence people!
Who signed up to the SNP for the party to be Anti Scottish, Independence, Women, Justice and the list goes on, so no wonder we left and other parties started, it was because of the SNP. The membership had a opportunity to elect a leader who would have put all these problems right and they wanted the continuity candidate instead.
@ One Scot
Re: Alba. What a propaganda gift Chris’s work could be for them. Whether they would see it that way and approach him on the matter is quite another question, of course.
A cartoon of that quality, strategically placed, is the equivalent of at least a million leaflets!
@Peter A Bell
Defending the indefensible. The division is more than mere squabble! SNP is in for one hell of a shock!
The sooner the movement realises focus should be on alternative political agency, the better. Any additional time needed to replace SNP, is time well spent! The status quo, no longer tolerable.
In fact, the sooner SNP is taught a lesson by the electorate, the sooner this situation can be turned around! Holyrood would benefit from fewer SNP seats.
SNP has already peaked. They will never again dominate any parliament.
The Indy movement must oust and replace SNP with genuine pro-independence people!
I don’t want hear any more shite, about transformation taking decades!
Peter Bell is right in the sense that the independence movement is best served by at least one large, organised and energised political party with representation in whatever political process the UK provides and an ability to turn out the vote.
However, the concepts of “large”, “organised” and “energised” are becoming harder and harder to square with the reality of the SNP. Throw into the mix that the current inhabitants are really only interested in being kept at the trough – hence the threats – and it’s starting to look past it’s shelf life.
Sooner or later push must come to shove. Either the SNP gets refurbished or rehabilitated or something else comes along. Given the current state of affairs and the learned helplessness of politicians across the board, “something else” is starting to look more attractive. The SNP have had many chances and failed to deliver. The only conclusion is that their unable or unwilling to deliver on their promises.
So, decoupling the Yes Movement, and that dreadful pastel colour scheme, from the SNP is a good next step as it serves as a reminder of who’s in charge of who and that support should never be taken for granted lest it comes to be expected.
As for the non-voters at the next general election? What better than a series of rallies demonstrating support for independence and decrying the failure of the political parties to enact the will of the populace. That would certainly be hard to ignore on the international stage.
Repeating the mistakes of the past 8 years with the hope that this time it will be different is insane.
Peter A Bell 10.06am
Yes but members are free to say what they like.
ALBA is very clear that cooperation, not division, is the way ahead.
The SNP still refuses to cooperate with other independence parties.
Hi Dorothy D.
I think 100%Yes was flagging up the comments.
You can’t read the comments at an archived page.
There’s not one comment in support of Guigliano’s position!
Excellent cartoon Chris!
Humza in the brake van, frantically trying to kill any momentum forwards.
@Dorothy Devine
Everything the SNP has done since Sturgeon took over was for self preservation for their own careers with no regard of what damage was being done to Scotland and its people still being tied to this Union that only looks after the rich. The journey the SNP is on is of its own making and has nothing to do with the YES movement, Alba Party or ISP and the SNP started the firing gun by Sturgeon going on national TV and criticizing the former FM who was just acquitted by a jury the SNP now wants to do away with.
You can’t get Sturgeon out of the press now, everyday she finding something to talk about and what does she want to talk about herself. The problem is if we in the Alba party say whats is really happening we are called the bad guys, NAW the SNP modeled that image themselves they own it.
Uncoupling the compromised dominant national party which the people had put their faith in, forms a key part of the decolonization template, as is the shift from an independence movement to a liberation movement (Salvo), reflecting better understanding of the people as to their real (i.e. colonial) ‘condition’.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/
Looks like a steam loco to me.
Accurate, given Scotland’s poor record of rail electrification.
But fossil fuelled locos will be banned soon.
Time for the Yes movement to switch to a new motive unit?
Well, duuuh, as the yoof like to say.
All we need is a leader to lead and the SNP have proven time and time NAW mandate after mandate that they are unable to lead and delivery independence. All the SNP has to do today is call Alba and ISP to work of the right steps for the next Westminster election and using it as a plebiscite but instead there trying to once again deny the Scottish people democracy and blame Westminster and the Tories when its all down to the SNP and the ("Tractor" - Ed)s running that Yousless party. We could be Independent in 2025 but instead the SNP threatening us if we don’t vote for them Independence will never happen.
Toni Giugliano says independence is off the agenda if the SNP lose the next election. Who is he or anyone else in the leadership to make such a pronouncement? That is for the members to decide, not the continuing cabal at the top, meant to be leading the party to the destination for which it exists – independence.
In any event a backbone is required. Throughout its long existence from 1934, defeat did not deter us – only made us more determined to reach our highest point in 2014,followed by undreamt of opportunities which were not seized.
where is the loco’s tender?
BDTT, hello to you , yes I just realised if it is archived one can’t read the comments.
I have to say they were an excellent indicator of the ordure in which the SNP now wallow and hell mend them.
Very strange
The SNP accept Westminster s right to stop a referendum and do not stand up to them but they do not accept Westminster s right to change the powers of Holyrood.
Am I the only one that sees the contridiction.
It appears that we are all out of step with that giant of the Indy Movement….Peter A Bell.
If only we listened to his instruction to stay coupled to the SNP for one more push!
@ Alin Scot: “..from 1934, defeat did not deter us.”
Good point, Alin. Yet since November 2014 there has been nothing but whimpering from SNP leadership and “aides”. “We can’t do this. We mustn’t say that.” On and on and on. Unbelievable.
Great pic!
We know it makes sense.
They’re just a dead weight to the Yes movement & only interested in Devo.
Ash had a chance to redeem it from its own act of self harm. It doesn’t want redeemed. Straight from the membership.
We’ve wasted enough time on them. I really hope they are wiped out at the elections. They’re only the deviants party now & all they care about is thier deviants charter. I’ll never put my x to sexualising & mutilating other people’s weans to fulfill their demonic fetish.
“Toni Giugliano says independence is off the agenda if the SNP lose the next election”
Independence has been off the agenda since those moving the strings of the political fraud Sturgeon took control of the SNP.
That was almost 9 years ago.
Over 100 SNP MPs and MSPs have been since then sitting on their hands and looking down like cowards while that political fraud disembowelled the party and transformed it into a useless copy cat of new labour. They did not stop her, they enabled her. Now they are doing the same with Yousaf.
They were given every majority and every mandate they could have ever needed to deliver independence. And what did they deliver? What did Toni Giugliano deliver? the square root of SFA.
With the same troughers and devolutionists at the wheel of the party, you should expect more of the same betrayal.
So Toni Giugliano can go to hell and take with him his tacky psychological blackmailing. The devil might find it amusing.
You do not reward betrayers and troughers with a nice salary and more opportunities to let you down. You “reward” them by handing them the p45 and reminding them who’s boss.
Great cartoon.
The image of the SNP getting ditched by the Yes movement, getting left in a siding is absolutely on the money.
It also evokes the image of the gravy train coming to and end which is also on the money.
I don’t think we fully understand just how the SNP vote will collapse. Resididual attachment is masking the polls and the true level of SNP support is yet to emerge. But with Alba on the rise, with the prospect of non SNP unity independence candidates emerging the SNP’s days are numbered.
Independence support is sitting around 50% without a campaign whilst the SNP support plummets to maybe half of that or even less.
With Sir Keir Starmer having visited Rutherglen this week it certainly seems that a by election might loom for the popular Margaret Ferrier now an independent.
And if a by election does arise and Margaret stands as an Alba / Independent Indy candidate who would be brave enough to put a bet on an SNP win. No one I would say. The SNP are toast.
Yes a very very good cartoon. And maybe not too long before Chris produces another transport related toon with lifeboats of folks ditching the SS SNP.
Continuing with the transport theme, some titles for the books Sturgeon is going to write:
Brief encounter with independence.
My road to nowhere.
Campervanning in Portugal.
The road to hell is paved with my intentions.
What is it with the SNP and Motorhomes?
https://www.bls.scot/case-studies/multi-award-winning-motorhome-hire-company-receives-250-000-to-grow-fleet-and-create-new-jobs-in-renfrewshire/
Now that it is beginning to sink in that «Covid» was mainly AI led medicalization hype, the albeit temporary reprieve for Margaret Ferrier from nanny state disciplining for being a «plague carrier» is a welcome kick in the butt for NorBritLab.
“What’s missing from Chris Cairns’s cartoon is the SNP/Alba warriors on the roof throwing lumps of metaphorical coal at each other”
The SNP has morphed into a devolutionist party with no intention and no interest in delivering independence. Continuing to bury the head on the sand and refusing to accept this does nothing to progress independence. What it does is to help them continue stalling it.
The SnP has been, at all practical effects, deliberately sabotaging its raison d’etre and deliberately betraying the yes movement. For this reason, we own them nothing. We own them no loyalty nor consideration and certainly no seats nor our vote.
We do not have to listen to them either nor accept the bullshit they continue to churn on a daily basis to justify their wastage of our time, mandates and majorities. If that feels like being thrown “lumps of coal”, I am sorry Peter, but they are well deserved.
As today, there is a serious question as to how many of the members the SNP still has on its database are truly independence supporters and not pro Devo-max or FFA or simply see the SNP as the safest option to preserve the union.
As far as I am concerned, there is nothing left in the SNP that is worthwhile saving. It has become, at all practical effects, the biggest obstacle to Scotland’s independence and therefore that albatross must be removed from Scotland’s neck, by whatever means, and the sooner the better.
The yes movement cannot continue to be held to ransom by a bandwagon of cowards, charlatans, timewasters, political frauds and troughers. Time to give them the boot.
Says it all, Chris. Wonderful depiction of the actuality.
Peter A. Bell: this is not a two-way fight, with both sides being equally culpable, any more than the ‘trans’ v women fight has been both sides culpable. It is the SNP that has deliberately, in turn, provoked, ignored, refused to co-operate with, ALBA. Alec Salmond has extended the hand of conciliation and unity on many occasions, only to be rebuffed.
The SNP has not the slightest intention of doing anything about independence. We all wish it could have been different, but it won’t be because the SNP is now the party of devolution. It is simply too stupid to save itself from ultimate destruction or to recognize that going hell for leather for independence was its moment in the sun. It is over. It is now burning and crashing spectacularly.
ALBA, too, is going to have to up its game and work with SALVO and the other constitutional organizations, the other independence parties, the YES movement and the public. It needs to have branches up and running in every part of Scotland, and it needs to publicize realistic plans for a central bank and our own currency. We have moved on, Peter, and, yes, we all know that time is of the essence, but, if the SNP/Greens are not going to do anything anyway, time will catch up with them.
It is a great sadness that it had to come to this, but we have wasted eight years already in shoring up a dying party. I feel sorry for the likes of Joanna Cherry, Ash Regan, etc., who do genuinely want to see independence from within the SNP. They, too, are reality deniers in their own way.
Nice one Chris….YES steams on while the SNP have the brakes applied and grind to a halt. NOW if we can just get the YES loco up to Shinkasen standard, we’ll be off
I have just read in Wings Twitter the comment about Toni Giugliano and his losing both Holyrood seats to the unionists. It was an eye-opener and rather suspicious to say the least, particularly because of whom he was going against. Smells fishy.
The move in the Edinburgh seat brings flashbacks of Robertson’s very own coup to push away Ms Cherry from the seat. Was Robertson’s move re-deployment of Giuliano’s tested strategy?
Did Giugliano/HQ deliver those disastrous campaigns on purpose to ensure those two giants of unionism retained a presence in Holyrood or was he helping to stop the majority to stop the referendum?
All this begs the question as to how organised and deep-rooted among MSP/MP candidates has the SNP campaign to deliberately sabotage independence been.
Interesting Nicola seems to be getting a few bookings.
Why would the MSM have permission to still give her profile
Hmmmmm
Let me think
All aboard the Devolutionist SNP Scot Caboose !
NAW !
Vote ALBA !
Great cartoon! 100% sums up exactly what we have to do to get ahead! It quite cheered me up but I also agree 100% with Karen above, who said it should have shown our wee lion doing the uncoupling. (Don’t you just love armchair cartoonists, Chris)?
Absolutely superb, Chris, the SNP consciously uncoupling from their driving force. Only train robbers as dim-witted as the SNP would stash their loot in the carriage and then uncouple it from the engine!
Shug says:
“Very strange. The SNP accept Westminster’s right to stop a referendum and do not stand up to them, but they do not accept Westminster’s right to change the powers of Holyrood. Am I the only one that sees the contradiction?”
Definitely not, Shug, and an excellent way of putting it. The only ones who can’t see it are those who have a vested interest in not seeing it.
The Independence movement has the fuel. As for nusnp they’ve got a rickety auld carriage which will prang and collapse.
Good one Chris. Reminds me of when we used to jump on the coal wagons and throw big lumps of coal into our Grannies garden. We were young and knew we were on the right side. 11 years young. One of my best memories. The same week a single parent was done for stealing coal. In the Post…another one. Jesus I’m pushing 70 and nothing has basically changed inspite of the oil etc etc. It’s a disgrace.
Great Cartoon but it doesn’t quite work for me.
The locomotive is labelled SNP but how much gravy there?
Lorna Campbell,
Regards Snp, I gave up on them when they attempted imprisoning AS.
Right now standing back and quietly observing the situation with Alba they certainly do have to up there game,
They are not dissimaler to the Snp, it is mainly political party building with little interaction with the likes of Salvo/ SSRG,
The policies of all inclusiveness was the steps the SNP went down,
The cllimate change ideology was the green parties global whip, along with trans gender issues.
In the mix the Actual Scottish indigenous nation get displaced to second or third best. Fourth or fifth when you include hate speech policies and uptake of global fantasies.
AS and Alba alway promised there were many other roots to independence.
And I have held a few conversations with Alex personally,
He knew and spoke about things that were not right with the treaty of union way back, (we are speaking ten years or more)
And therefore This independence for Scotland could malarky issue could have been put to bed years ago.
But the Alba party if they do not engage more with the people and the other groups they will be dangling carrots to the Yes movement very similar to the SNP since 2014 referendum.
I look for the fire and see political sound bites where it should be.
The mantra of one party trying to gain one upmanship one another party is as old as the hills and as long as political parties have existed,
There is to much influence from old labour turned Snp turned Alba.
The slow road of carrot dangling and repeatedly waiting for the next long distance election is a great long term strategy if you want a good political party pension,
however not so good for those that have or have passed away, to be replaced with a different demographic population in Scotland.
Meanwhile the advertising in MSM continues to sell Scotlands Country to people outside Scotland at a alarming rate every day,
There comes a point when we can no longer turn a blind eye to those that delay for the sake of saving there own political selves no matter how much faith we have in their past history,
For the Snp once had a good reputation for many years, with many hard working supporters, but was taken down from the inside.
The faffing about of Alba will fall on the same Sword.
Chris,
Excellent cartoon
Livingstone’s attempt to distract from his own culpability in the misgovernance of this country has only resulted in pissing off the rank and file.
Draw that with a pen or a scalpel Chris?
If today’s cartoon marks the decoupling, then it’s not a moment too soon.
I believe the SNP’s scheduled “derailment” happens on Wednesday or Thursday, – if the SNP’s Auditors don’t have the SNP’s Accounts in order and submitted.
I’d lay odds they get “something” submitted, but the million dollar question about the Short money, is how short of a million dollars the answer might be.
Mind the gap…
I wonder if Sir Ian Livingston is going to find himself pulled over by some unhappy PC.
Would be choice if he got a speeding ticket, and fines for broken headlight, and sundry other violations.
Has to be a script for scotsquad
Humza Y today bleating on as regards the recycling scheme “demand” from Westminster not to include glass bottles . Well the response is simple and doesn’t require the inclusion of “ bleating” . Call a Holyrood ( Defacto independence) election right now and throw down the Guantlet now to Westminster . Or is the SNP “ devolution party” going to “continue “ to be both useless & gutless ?
I think Dorothy Devines comment regarding using this as a BILLBOARD is excellent , it would show the Sexual Nonce Party that we KNOW what their motivation is and how they are BETRAYING not only independence supporters but the SCOTTISH PEOPLE
It would also highlight to ALL Scots that the Sexual Nonce Party are NO LONGER an independence party but a party of continuous FAILED governance whose LYING PROMISE of a national energy company has led to GREED DRIVEN power companies raising prices unchallenged and causing increased numbers of hypothermia in our population
What would make the billboard even better if it were HAMISH driving AWAY from the PARASITES
BTW Chris another belter
@Alf Baird 11:00am
Alf, many years ago, at the tail-end of my teens, I was fortunate enough to meet a remarkable young man.
His name was Lee Bosarge, an American and a couple of years older than me.
He hailed from Louisiana and sported ‘Afro Style’ hair and wore thick milk-bottle-bottom eye glasses.
One of the most important things I learned from him was how to drink a glass of ‘Southern Comfort’ correctly (yes. there is a right way to do it).
I think that was in ‘Charlie Parker’s’ if memory serves. A bar just off Glasgow’s Queen Street (probably gone now). But I could be wrong, it was a long time ago.
Lee’s grandmother was a native American Indian and his father was a senior programmer on the Apollo space missions. He used to jokingly tell me he was a Red-Indian
Anyway, another thing he told me in conversation was that his grandmother didn’t have much time for the American ‘Thanksgiving Day’ tradition.
She thought it was(according to Lee) a:
My conversation with Lee all those years ago has resurfaced from the depths of my mind because of my recent ‘awakening’.
Now, this is purely anecdotal. I don’t have the knowledge or the necessary academic qualifications and training to say with any authority if Lee’s grandmother’s view has any validity or not.
But I thought it relevant to mention in the context of part 4 of your series on the Yours For Scotland website.
I had it in my mind a wee while back to ask you a question on this very thing.
I was going to ask:
It seems this excerpt from your paper answers, at least partly, my question.
Maybe Lee’s grandmother’s view does have some truth to it. I’m still not entirely sure, though.
Even descendents of native American Indians are split on the subject.
Here’s a link to an article on the BBC website for anyone interested.
BBC – What Do Native Americans Celebrate?
It includes the opinion of LeAndra Nephin, who is a member of the Omaha (pronounced Umo Ho) tribe from Nebraska, now living in the UK.
Here’s an excerpt that gives a taste of her view:
I think it’s clear that LeAndra, at least partly, agrees with Lee’s granny.
To add to North Chiel @ 3.34, Humza hasn’t got any bottle anyway, has he?
Westminster are just reinforcing the point, that’s all. Making him – and unfortunately us too (or so they think) a laughing-stock.
Nice work Chris. It’s as if the many Yes carriages are also actively pushing away and repelling from the broken (beyond economical repair) engine of the SNP.
This is an important picture, as it now clearly illustrates the difference between the Yes movement and the supposed ‘SNP vehicle’ with which it was once carried. Many people have previously recognised the SNP / Yes as one and the same, so this is good to make the distinction and separation of entities.
Scotland’s Yes movement will not be pushed around or shunted along the line any longer by the indy robbers of the SNP and needs a new leading engine (I would suggest) in the form of the Alba Party. The Alba party is buzzing with energy and is lightyears ahead of the SNP in strategy:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/l_IB8c5EijY?start=97&end=129
“ Wull @0416pm “ No bottle & kicking the independence can doon the road ( as per the continuity candidate “ roadshow” to nowhere ).
Lots of yes voters prepared to vote Labour at the GE if there is no “Scotland United” agreement. Alba an obvious choice of course in constituencies where they’re standing. Labour would be wise to agree that Scots have a democratic right to have a referendum.
Northcode @ 4:15 pm
“Do colonizers also suffer from any psychological affects caused by the colonization process?”
“Colonialism has destroyed many wonderful civilizations”, according to Cesaire, and “between colonization and civilization there is an infinite distance”. In colonial societies “racism is built into the system” whilst “civilization helps us locate the origins of fascism within colonialism itself”. The colonizer may thus adopt these features, and “the crushing of the colonized” is included among his dominant ‘values’.
Albert Memmi is very good on the psychological effects, maintaining that: “Colonization can only disfigure the colonizer.” Memmi reflects on the “two main propositions” where colonization is permitted to continue: “extermination of the colonized or assimilation”. He argued that: “If colonization destroys the colonized, it also rots the colonizer”.
Which perhaps brings some meaning to Alex Cole Hamilton’s seemingly ‘odd’ perspective that the Scottish nation should not exist; from the colonizer’s standpoint this is not an odd view at all, it is arguably the main purpose.
The SNP is dead in the water. I won’t vote dor them. If no ISP or Alba candidates I will spoil my vote
I struggle with the practical applicability of the colonisation concept. So many questions, conundrums and contradictions.
The Highland Clearances for example. The source of much anger and resentment. Yet, almost without exception, every one of those cleared went to colonise indigenous peoples in America, Africa, Australia, etc.
So do we need to distinguish between “willing” and “forced” colonisation? And even if we do, why should we expect the colonised to either know, or care?
Then I hear of LeAndra Nephin, a member of the Omaha tribe from Nebraska, living in the U.K.
So, a coloniser then, and almost certainly not a “forced” coloniser either.
To be fair, perhaps a “reverse” coloniser, believing that because her ancestors were colonised, those indirectly related to the coloniser’s descendants deserve to be colonised in turn. I write “indirectly related” as it is obvious that the coloniser’s direct descendants mostly live today in the colonised lands. So it is mostly the descendants of the blameless – those who stayed where they were and never colonised anybody – who are on the receiving end of “reverse” colonisation.
Which is why I am so fervently opposed to it. That, and my knowledge of the scriptures, where it is written that the sins of the fathers will be passed on to future generations.
That nonsense was thoroughly revoked before my childhood. Nowadays, nobody other than grifters and grievance milkers believe anybody should be held to account for things that happened before they were born.
@Alf Baird 5:35pm
Makes me wonder if this is what’s happening to America right now.
Because over the past few years America seems to be losing the plot a wee bit. What with all the Trump shenanigans and such.
I have a friend who has lived in NC for many years, she says the US was never better governed than when under Donal-John.
The Democrat cities are a nightmarish jungle and illegal immigration running wild under Biden.
Perhaps a half Scottish DJ could fix the woke mess that the SNPLGBT preside over.
Then we can look at a country like New Zealand.
Thoroughly colonised, end to end, north and south. Scots over represented amongst the colonisers, as we all know.
Anybody know if the colonisers in NZ are being rotted? It’s a very interesting question, because for so many on here during the “Covid Years”, NZ was lauded as an exemplar of how a wee, independent country should be.
A role model for iScotland, in fact. So maybes not all colonisation is bad.
Thus, I start to wonder if as well as direct, indirect and reverse colonisation, we can also introduce the concept of “admirable” colonisation.
Not forgetting unconscious, cultural and linguistic colonisation. Seen, for example, when somebody spells colonise with a ‘z’.
A picture worth a thousand words indeed, and puns are strong today, well done all 😀
I had mentioned on a previous post, that much of Independence support has been effectively de-coupled from the SNP for a long time – YES voters exist in other parties.
Much of the SNP losing voters, is an electorate self-correcting. The SNP were indeed ‘lent votes’ and the electorate are returning to their preferred political ideologies after one carrot too many.
Again, that doesn’t mean ‘Unionism’ even though they are returning to ‘Unionist’ parties, they are remaining Independence minded, or at very at least, not that troubled by the thought.
I suggested previously, that if Scotland woke up to Independence, most wouldn’t be that bothered; delving into recent polls, and surveys, I found the question had already been asked in a couple of Panelbase polls – seems 62% wouldn’t be that bothered at all (Pleased > Mildly Upset)*
As for “Whit aboot the White Setllers, and Furriners swarming native Scots?” Well half of English respondents, and three quarters of ‘Furriners’ wouldn’t lose any sleep over Scotland becoming Independent – that only reinforces my belief that ‘Hard Unionism’ isn’t the force we think it is.
*If Wings was commisioning another poll, the ‘Upset’ question would certainly make my list, just to double check.
Funnily enough it’s Lib-Dem voters just as much as Tories who would bubble into their teacups, a good 70% of them.
I also mentioned that the Scottish electorate (across party lines) support direct Scottish self-government (effectively Devo) at near 56%.
That was based on polling, however, plumbing the numbers from census surveys back in, the figure is closer to 75%.
I know the most recent polls seem to put Independence support at 50%+, but that is currently an outlier in polling this year, but may well signal another bounce. The last 50% bounce, was around December last year.
However much ‘Unionist’ parties garner seats, it may well be for Devo, but it’s certainly not support for ‘Hard Unionism’, because the numbers for Devo (specifically ‘more powers’ Devo) + Independence support, blows Hard Unionism clean out the water.
If ever there was a country ripe for Independence, Scotland is it, it just doesn’t know it yet.
Why the SNP chose this moment in time to abdicate all responsibility, and alienate the Scottish electorate defies belief. It is what it is – they may never again be in the driving seat -they may get an invite to ride along.
Gradualism was not a terrible idea, but it has a lifespan. The idea being that self-government, and almost all the powers (short of full independence) meant the next step would be a small one.
Gradualism’s lifespan ended as soon as Westminster said ‘thus far and no further’ It did so last year.
The ‘Unionist’ parties may get a majority in Scotland – then what?
Well they can’t deliver what their voters want either without ‘more powers’.
The great irony is; if they do manage to gain more powers (their voters certainly want it) they will have driven the gradualist goal of independence closer than the SNP this last decade.
If they don’t deliver, and attempt to walk back, or weaken Holyrood – to toe their London master’s ‘Enough is enough for Scotland’ line – their tea is out.
The future isn’t that bleak, but by the auld gods, we do need a coherent direction.
The SNP don’t do coherent, co-operation, dialogue, or direction – they’ve de-coupled themselves from all reality, far less political reality.
Question. If Margaret Ferrier wants to stand, if an election is called, should all Alba supporters/members support her? I definitely think they should.A genuine, local, hard working MSP with a strong record of supporting independence. Compared with all the Tories why has she been singled out for the most serious punishment. No , totally unfair.
I left NZ in 1978, so have no idea what it’s like now, but the Police and Army were forcibly moving the Maori occupiers of Bastion Point off the land in 1978, which they’d been occupying for almost two years. It got pretty rough. I seem to remember that someone wanted to build high end houses on the land, and the Maori people objected.
The Maori Wars were pretty unpleasant, around 3,000 Maoris killed and about 800 British, as far as I can make out. They always used to say that the Pakeha and the Maori were pretty well integrated, but I’m not so sure about that, and I’m glad I didn’t stay there. I could certainly see things from Hone Hike’s point of view, put it that way. None of my business though, thankfully.
Twathater, I think we might crowdfund many of Chris’s cartoons as billboards – it would be a great expression of YES for independence.
Margaret Ferrier MP not MSP. Pedant absolute surrender.
SusanAFH @5:42…
Ditto…
I’ll continue to contribute but I’m giving up looking at posts as it’s just same old same old
Nobody gives a shit about something that happened 300 years ago
I care about what’s happening now
Benhope 7.19pm i think margaret should stand as an Alba candidate, hopefully a win win situation with great publicity for all, carpe diem.
I’ve just had a conversation with my next door neighbour, who called to collect some parcels I’d taken in for him yesterday.
He’s a Nigerian who has decided to settle in Scotland with his girlfriend. He told me that they’d had a Nigerian marriage that isn’t recognised in this country and now his girlfriend is pregnant. As he’s a Christian, I advised him to get in touch with the Minister of one of our local Churches.
He also told me that he’s just changed his job – he’s worked ever since he came here.
I then asked him if he was now settled here had he decided how to vote? He told me that when he first came that he joined the SNP but then started to have doubts about them and left to join ALBA! He knew very little about what Sturgeon had been up to but just had a feeling that all was not right with the SNP – those words came from a Nigerian who sensed that the SNP was not the right Party to fight for an Independent Scotland! It’s sometimes interesting to hear the views of people who come from other countries and want to settle in an Independent Scotland!
Incidentally, while we were having our discussion, I discovered that he knew little of our history. so sent him home with a book to read – I once made a joke about a “Jacobite” and he hadn’t a clue!
Right now, in the community centre nearby, the Staunch are doing a rehearsal, what with the marching season upon us again.
They sound in fine fettle. No matter that Celtic lifted the SPL trophy today and are going for the Treble next week whereas they have hee-haw to show for the whole season.
Some are hanging about outside in their paramilitary uniforms, having a smoke as the thing cranks up to whatever they now use as their finale.
I have to go back out again in a wee while to meet my lass off the train, she’s getting back from work. It’s only two minutes away but she’d have to walk through these characters finally spilling from the hall. Too dodgy.
Times like this I despair.
🙁
Here’s Xaracen, from the previous thread, in case some may have missed it:
A Scot Abroad said;
“Western countries try to follow a rules-based order, and react badly (by imposing sanctions and diplomatic freezes) to chaotic disintegrations of nations. Given that there are rules by which Scotland can leave the Union, Scotland trying to leave the Union by any other process than via those rules is going to end badly for Scotland.”
Your framing is yet again a dishonest representation of the truth. The ‘rules by which Scotland can leave the Union’ are only Westminster’s rules, and it is not entitled to constrain Scotland’s right to withdraw from the Treaty of Union precisely because Scotland is a fully sovereign Principal of that treaty. Westminster on the other hand is not a Principal of the Treaty but is instead a subject of it and so subservient to it, and therefore cannot command any authority over either Principal.
You are once again overegging the authority of the English establishment which runs Westminster while carefully ignoring the authority of the sovereign Scottish people, whose own sovereignty forms the basis of Westminster’s delegated authority over Scotland, two steps below that sovereignty. Sovereign -> Scottish Parliament and Monarch -> Westminster (via Scotland’s elected MPs). Scotland’s MPs are themselves one step above Westminster in authority as they are all elected directly by the sovereign Scots themselves, thus only one level below Scotland’s sovereignty. England’s sovereignty/authority is completely irrelevant in this matter.
All of the above is true and relevant, and neither you nor the English establishment is entitled to pretend otherwise.
At the international level, there is only one rule, that Scotland’s people democratically chose to reclaim their independence, and can demonstrate the democratic authenticity of their choice. Westminster has no legal, constitutional or democratic right of any kind to apply constraints deliberately designed to prevent Scotland’s people from carrying out that democratic exercise should they choose to do so, just because it fears the answer, and nor for any other reason.
As for “react badly…to chaotic disintegrations”, that is no more than unwarranted wishful presumption on your part, just more of your less than accurate framing; we would be dismantling a Treaty agreement which at root just formalised the sharing of a single parliament to permit jointly coordinated governance of the two Kingdoms under a written set of terms and conditions. The chaos will come from the fact that much of the UK Parliament’s governance of Scotland was ultra vires both under the terms of the Treaty, and in abrogation of its obligation to respect Scotland’s constitution and sovereignty, neither of which were ever given over to the new Union parliament. Untangling all of that is going to be seriously messy, and all of that is down to the English establishment’s utter lack of integrity. They are the ones that sowed the seeds of chaos, and they will reap the resulting whirlwind. Hell mend them!
“You know that every single lever available to Whitehall would be deployed to frustrate a non-rules based secession of Scotland.”
Oh, there’s a surprise, more disingenuous framing! Firstly, Scotland’s independence would not be a secession, because that presumes that the UK is Scotland’s mother country; it patently isn’t. Scotland and England together are the UK’s and the UK Parliament’s parents, courtesy of the Treaty that created them both, and neither ceased to exist. They merely ceased governing themselves separately, governing themselves jointly instead.
Secondly, it would not be non-rules based, it just wouldn’t be using Westminster’s rules, since all of those rules only encompass domestic legislation. Scotland’s independence is a matter of international law, as you well know, so Whitehall’s efforts, in full alignment with your own, are irrelevant, however strenuously they try.
@meself (10.57) –
They’re still there.
They played ‘Penny Arcade’ well over an hour ago and sounded quite excited so I thought it might be winding-up.
But no…
🙁
somebody sang,
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows…etc,etc…
Get these fucking snp slug’s out, they are of no use to anybody!
They are not even of any use to themselve’s..time will show them that!…money does’nt save you!…arseholes…it’s not your’s!
These bloody creep’s are not us! get them to fuck out of the way!
Are u a serious scottish independence politician,or prospective politician…,…,then get your arse in gear now…or shut the fuck up…and fuck off!
The Scot’s are not cunt’s…and will not be treated like cunt’s by
you or anyone else!
And your smart arse rhetotric count’s for fuck all…in the real world!…………………..
and…breaaaaaaaaathe!
but heartfealt!…enough shite!
and now for something completely differrent!
bloody sexy woman!…no not u nicky!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KZIwDNNYik
@Dumbarton Rock 5:14pm
Indeed.
I looked at that, and had another look after reading your post. Hard to put an exact figure on it, but just going by recent polling, 36-40% of their voters believe Scotland should NOT have to get permission from WM (which is about the same as would vote for Indy)
Should Labour ignore them? At their peril I’d say. Enough to change Labour’s stance? I don’t think so – the evidence is the ‘unionist parties are going to double down hard – but that will be a big mistake.
Not much point talking about Tory voters. Independence minded Conservatives are out there (and I’ve had the figure as unfeasibly high as 20% – but that was taking an awful lot of surveys, and census data into account)
Suffice to say, only about 4% of Conservative voters polled recently want anything to do with Independence, or a referendum (which looks more realistic) but I have doubts about that – a fair few more appear to have a softer approach
As ever, canny follow polls, or the electorate wi radar at the best of times.
Mike Russell wants a woke Independent Scotland. Retired SNP pension present with no stamina for front line politics and awful vision says:
That is how you build a new country – by acknowledging what is wrong and collectively working to set it right.
“In other words, by being woke.”
23 seats down. And counting. Woke you say?
Mike Russell wants a woke Independent Scotland. He wants to control people’s thoughts with an authoritarian regime.
The truth is. He just wants a woke chief of police to get the job. To bury the bodies of thd Sturgeon regime.
He’s just saying we need to go woke. Because the resigning chief of police Livingstone says they are all racist, sexist mysogynistic homophobes in the police.
Bullshit. It’s all spin. They think we button up the back. We don’t need or want another corrupt born again woke chief of police.
https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1662557816551243781
Mermaid’s lied in court. And that Suzie Green was on speed dial to Tavistock dictating to the medical profession to butcher kids.
Nicola Sturgeon. Snoozing with her with champagne last week. She was pictured next to this woman last week as she collected her award. “As long there is breath in me. I’ll be a trans ally.”
https://i0.wp.com/wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/83F0969D-3249-4DD0-B9D5-25F98E485B88.jpeg?ssl=1
Look at this. Nicola and Suzie Green in today’s Sunday telegraph. I’m fairly sure it’s her the left. She keeps some horrible company that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t she?
@ Carol Neill: “Nobody gives a shit about what happened 300 years ago”
Very funny, Carol – the Treaty of Union was about that time and it seems to be the reason that we on here are all het up and want to get away!
Oh well, in the interests of accuracy:
Two Sovereign Scots (and I’m one of them) don’t give a shit about what happened 300 years ago.
I can’t be arsed to do my signature 30 seconds of online research, but I am nevertheless confident that 300 years ago, the vast majority of today’s European, African, American and Asian independent countries did not exist.
Yet they exist now, and they all gained their independent existence without having to harp on about what happened 300 years ago.
Again, not wasting 30 seconds, etc, but I’m guessing these countries: 1 built an internal consensual majority for independence, 2 put in place competent politicians with a mandate to deliver independence, then 3 got on with the fucking job.
Simples.
So, Scotland, where exactly is the problem? Why are we stuck at 1?
IB
I hope you and your lass got home safe and sound.
If it’s any consolation, the reality is that it is other groups who establish no-go areas, through which an unaccompanied lass would be most unwise to walk.
Ditto an unaccompanied bloke, or indeed, an unaccompanied police officer in full riot gear.
These other no-go areas are permanent too, not transient or seasonal.
That’s what I despair of.
@David Hannah 4:30
Thanks for the pic.
Given that Yousaf now has the eradication of Scottish poverty firmly in hand, don’t you think the architect of his coronation deserves a little “me” time?
Ah come on now David, hundreds of years of Scottish poverty, being eradicated as most Scots enjoy a long lie in. Credit where credit is due, right?
You wonder in disbelief at how utterly out of touch with reality the SNP currently are, then you read this ill informed, (or wilfully blind), claptrap in the SNP fanzine…
https://archive.is/3JuTM
A five year old in Scotland could tell you exactly why support for the SNP is in a tailspin, while support for Independence remains resilient. Yet for Scotland’s current cadre of “journalists”, it’s all some unfathomable mystery.
Oh yeah, and FFS don’t mention the ALBA word…
Why does the bubble these arseholes live in get all the publicity, (and I’m talking ostensibly pro-independence mouthpieces), while the great work being done by ALBA and SALVO continues to progress unappreciated, in a virtual vacuum of exposure?
It’s a serious question. Are they afraid to step outside the comfort zone? They seem comfortable enough making a living with the edginess of Scottish Independence, but when it comes to actual Revolution and meaningful progress towards Independence, they’re suddenly every inch the lame conservatives, as comfy with the status quo as the damned Unionist propagandists.
Scotland needs it’s purge of weak and feckless Politicians to be followed up with a similar purge of it’s weak and feckless “journalists”.
Did I say weak and feckless? Substitute the words “weak and feckless” with SNP…. Same difference.
@David Hannah 4:30am
Is it my imagination, coloured perhaps by recent revelations, or has Sturgeon morphed, almost overnight, into some hideous caricature of her former self?
In every picture I see of her since her resignation she looks different in a way I can’t quite put my finger on.
It’s as if she’s been wearing an ill-fitting costume all these past years, masquerading as a clever wee honest Scots lass fighting for the rights of her ain folk, and now, for some reason, feels free to reveal her true self.
Lately, she seems to be sporting a look of glee-filled malice on her face.
Almost as if she’s revelling in her new found freedom to express her true nature, and flaunting her disdain for the Scots who once held her in high regard.
She seems to have diminished in stature and become a shrunken, twisted parody of what she once was, completely unaffected by the chaos and the hurt and the damage she has caused in the pursuit of her own selfish agenda..
I’ll be honest, she’s difficult to look at now.
Scottish Labour wouldn’t need to bother whether Westminster agreed to Indy ref 2 or not. All they’d need to say is that they’d respect democracy and agree to a referendum. Of course it would mean division between Scottish Labour and U.K. Labour, so it won’t happen. ……. but what do they do with the Indy supporters who vote for them? A dilemma?
The original ethos of SNP, remains to be expressed. Under which banner, still to be decided by those already elected.
Politicians switching to ALBA, the most positive action for Scotland’s immediate future.
Regardless of SNP’s financial woes, the most pressing issue to be answered…
When will defection to ALBA, begin in earnest?
The above revolution is essential, changes everything, the catalyst to truly implement genuine democracy.
The UK establishment, fully aware of this pivotal threat to the Union. In the right circumstance, electoral support for ALBA, from SNP, could swing overnight!
Following on from the above, if SNP survives the current threat to it’s finances, the party would require to align Indy policy, to remain relevant.
There’s no division of purpose among Indy supporters, so why should switching to ALBA, be painted as detrimental to that goal? Indy manifesto will defeat unionist at the ballot, everytime. Splitting the vote is hardly an issue, could afford to split 50% of existing Indy seats and still trounce unionists!
If Indy Alliance with ALBA, is viewed as a threat, it’s only a threat to individual Politicians, not to independence!
Politicians making that switch, in the coming weeks, is crucial. If not, they’ve assured their own downfall.
@Breeks 10:19am
One of the reasons WoS is so popular and widely read is that it’s creator knows how to write, and write well.
Lesser journalists (the so-called professionals writing for the MSM ) must be crying over their quills, kicking their keyboards, tearing at their tenses (past and present), and punching their participles in frustration over their inability to match even the poorest of the Rev Campbell’s alliterations.
The metonymic adage, “The pen is mightier than the sword”, is as true now as it has always been.
Or in modern terms, “The keyboard is mightier than the tactical nuclear weapon”, although that one doesn’t scan quite as nicely.
Charles Findlay @ 7:20 pm
“The Maori Wars were pretty unpleasant, around 3,000 Maoris killed and about 800 British, as far as I can make out”
The former ‘British Dominions’ are clearly not a role model for any civilized society to follow. However, whilst Scotland remains treated as belonging to the British Crown our ‘condition’ seems hardly even as ‘free’ or ‘equal’ or ‘autonomous’ as the former ‘Dominions’ prior to their independence:
” the Dominions as “autonomous communities within the British Empire, equal in status, in no way subordinate one to another in any aspect of their domestic or external affairs, though united by a common allegiance to the Crown and freely associated as members of the British Commonwealth of Nations” (Balfour Declaration Clause II, Imperial Conference 1926)
@John Main
I would advise you do that 30 seconds per day of research
You might agree with me but I have to say that no nation ever successfully gained its liberty or maintained it while half of them thought it backwards or racist to put their own countrymen first.
Sarah , not funny just plain ignorant and I suspect neither you nor I will be able to change that no matter how hard we try.
There again it might just be a silly bot exercising someone else’s free speech.
@Alf Baird 27th May 5:35pm
I started on your paper this morning:
Alf Baird: Determinants of Independence Colonialism (paper 4)
And the first few sentences of Memmi’s piece appear to give some indication of the SNP’s motives in its current state.
@ David Hannah at 4.30 and others who responded:
The woman in the green dress in that photo is Nancy Kelley, CEO of Stonewall; an equally unsavoury companion of course.