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Wings Over Scotland

The broken telescope

Posted on December 29, 2018 by

An alert reader spotted this today:

Because with Scottish Labour, lying is for life, not just Christmas.

The bit that particularly caught our spotter’s eye was the claim – attributed to Shelter and accompanied by a blink-and-you’ll miss it graph that’s onscreen for less than a second – that “As Tories pose at foodbanks and homelessness rises under the SNP, our communities are forced to step up”.

And as our reader recalled from a piece we ran back in the summer, there’s a reason Labour didn’t want anyone looking too closely at that graph for too long. Because the blue line we’ve drawn marks the point when Scottish Labour took over responsibility for homelessness, and the yellow one marks the point when the SNP did.

Those respective directions of travel are striking, aren’t they?

Because while homelessness did indeed rise by a tiny amount last year, the reality is that having skyrocketed during the entirety of Labour’s eight years in control of Holyrood, even with last year’s small rise it’s fallen by over 40% since the SNP came to power. Indeed, it’s lower than it’s been at almost any other time for quarter of a century, and substantially lower than it was at ANY time during Labour control.

In the strictest technical sense Labour can of course get away with claiming that “homelessness has risen under the SNP”, so long as you measure it on a REALLY short scale. But despite a decade of global recession and UK austerity, the problem has in fact been almost halved in Scotland, whereas in England it’s been rising for the last seven years and is now almost exactly where it was in 2007.

(And we should probably recall – for contrast – that Labour also ran Holyrood during an unbroken economic boom, when its budget from a friendly Labour administration at Westminster rose every year, whereas the SNP’s has been slashed by the Tories.)

So the next time Scottish Labour try to whizz something past you, we advise having your finger ready on the pause button.

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  1. 29 12 18 19:56

    The broken telescope | speymouth

  2. 30 12 18 11:19

    Fuller Nairn - Making Stats Work for the Few

537 to “The broken telescope”

  1. Merkin Scot says:

    Finish the year as we started. No doubt next year will be the same. The sooner we get away from these bozos the better.

  2. Grendel says:

    Be nice if someone took a close look at Labour’s lying over the railways. Jenny Marra yesterday claiming that her parents had to take a cramped London train from Dundee to Edinburgh as the Scotrail service had been cancelled. Only problem is, there were only a handful of cancellations there, and none were immediately followed by a London train…

  3. Thepnr says:

    This is Labour now resorting to the most ridiculous claims possible in order to slur the SNP’s record in government.

    Those Labour acolytes that come up with such disgusting lies are the absolute pits. Thankfully we have alert readers and Wings pointing out the reality to everyone in Scotland.

    This Labour propaganda needs to be exposed, please share on social media so as many as possible can for a change be exposed to the truth. Put this in your bookmarks under “Labour lies – Homelessness” as it’s guaranteed to become a classic.

  4. Hamish100 says:

    Labour are the enemy of the poor, homeless and needy.

    They do not care one jot about the ordinary Scot. They will work with the tories to bring Brexit to Scotland. They know it, and increasingly more Scots know it.

    They have no credibility as we move toward 2019.

    Independence or tory/labour Brexit are the choices.

  5. Street Andrew says:

    I can understand the level of desperation in England that might persuade someone that voting Labour was their only hope of avoiding another Tory government. Not that it worked out very well voting for Tony Blair….

    …but in Scotland? How stupid would a person need to be to vote labour in Scotland ?

  6. dakk says:

    Truly revolting, unforgivable deceit from the British Labour Party.

    To use the most unfortunate and vulnerable people in society to pursue their Westminster british nationalist agenda in this way tells you everything you need to know about these frauds.

  7. Macart says:

    Oh, that’s well spotted.

    That’s the team that promise ‘kinder more honest politics’. Not entirely sure they’re at all clear on the meaning of those words tbh. They really don’t give a shit who they hurt. *disgusted*

    Trust and respect. Can take a lifetime to earn and heartbeat to throw away.

  8. BuggerLePanda says:

    Unbridled lying is all they can do and, of course they hire the best liars for hire to do it for them to endorse.

    Talking about Liars for Hire anybody know what Blair McDougall is doing these days.

  9. winifred mccartney says:

    Labour still have not caught on to the fact that when they open their mouth we know they will be lying, either in fact or by omission – they have also forgotten that it is too easy to check their fiction. Labour are indeed the enemy of the poor, homeless and needy (Hamish100)-it really is a political game for them – when they brought out on strike the Glasgow women after their years of disgraceful treatment of them they were quite prepared to have them lose money by striking when they knew full well its only when snp came in that the issue of equal pay was really addressed so they really really don’t care about the poorest hardest working people in our society and I and many others like me will never trust them again.

  10. Mogabee says:

    Answer : Dirty rotten lying bastards.

    Question : Labour?

  11. Artyhetty says:

    UK Labour and their branch office in Scotland really do have form in their ability to deceive don’t they. They are a con, red Tories, and in Scotland they work only for the Britnats and dodgy establishment at WM.

    If anyone can come up with anything good or positive, that Labour UK branch did for Scotland or the people of Scotland while they were at the helm for 10 years at Holyrood, it would be interesting to know.

    I can’t recall anything but I do remember like it was yesterday, when they announced they were sending £1.5 BILLION BACK to WM, saying ‘nothing to spend it on in Scotland’. Jack McConnell, the then FM, was richly rewarded by his London English gov masters, £300 a day at the HOL’s.

    Just disgusting.

  12. Truth says:

    Whilst they have all of the media on their side they will continue to do this and continue to sucker people in.

    Not everyone has the necessary critical faculties or indeed the time to devote to this sort of thing.

  13. bjsalba says:

    You might also want to check who was responsible for the cancellations as Network Rail is far more likely (by a ratio of 2 to 1) to be responsible for the problems on Scotrail.

    Network rail is still controlled by …..

  14. Muscleguy says:

    There is a lot of social housing being finished off here in Dundee on former industrial sites and those cleared by the removal of some multis. Spot the council run by the SNP. Dundee is booming with the V&A and extra hotel capacity etc. Sure the Michelin factory is closing but other enterprises will open on the site so It won’t be a complete white elephant and those two giant wind turbines will be put to good use. Again thanks to the SNP in Council and Holyrood.

    Mind you it might have helped the factory if the SNP had called a referendum campaign as one thing that doomed it was the soon to be 3rd country status while Michelin ask the EU for anti dumping measures against Asian import tyres so it had to go on that basis. A Brexit casually but if Nicola wasnae so feart we might have avoided it. We’ve noticed that here in Dundee Nicola, don’t think we haven’t.

  15. CameronB Brodie says:

    BLiS___d are not a political party they’re an accounting unit. You can’t expect rational policy or honest PR as they have no autonomy from their London HQ. Preserving the yoonyawn is their sole purpose, that and hoovering up publicly funded salaries.

    Homelessness, Empowerment and Self-reliance in Scotland and Ireland: The Impact of Legal Rights to Housing for Homeless People


    This paper explores the impact of legal rights to housing for homeless people, focusing on the capacity of such rights to ‘empower’ those experiencing homelessness. Lukes’ (2005) three-dimensional view of power, complemented by Bourdieu’s (1972) concept of ‘habitus’, is used to distinguish between conceptualisations of empowerment. A distinction is drawn between ‘traditional’ understandings of empowerment, which focus on people’s capacity to realise their ‘subjective interests’, and on understandings that foreground ‘real interests’. These latter ‘radical’ perspectives direct attention to people’s ‘habitus’ – their internalised dispositions to perceive situations and act in particular ways.

    Empirically, the paper draws on a qualitative comparison of approaches to homelessness in Scotland and Ireland. Whereas in Scotland virtually all those who are homeless now have a legal right to settled accommodation, Ireland has rejected such a ‘legalistic’ approach, pursuing a consensus driven ‘social partnership’ model. Based on primary research with national experts, service providers and homeless single men in both countries, it is argued that legal rights can effectively empower homeless people. These findings call into question popular and political understandings of the relationship between legal welfare rights and self-reliance.

    The Right to Settled Accommodation for Homeless People in Scotland: A Triumph of Rational Policy-Making?

    The Impact of Legal Rights to Housing for Homeless People
    A Normative Comparison of Scotland and Ireland

  16. William Habib Steele says:

    I deeply regret that the British (=English) Labour Party in Scotland Should seek to undermine the Scottish Government. In fact, I’m angry at them!

    I’ve been reading a bit of the History of British Labour Party, and I regret that we don’t have that party anymore. Corbyn may be a move in the direction of Keir Hardy’s party, but he’s English Labour through and through.

    The Scottish Government must do whatever is necessary to repeal the Treaty of Union and the Act of Union.

  17. Good old English Rose Labour you know they are lying because they have made a statement.

    The lies are quite easily identified especially by a competent chap like Stu on the job.

    It shows they are targeting really old folks and basically daft folk.

    Sulphurous Labour always a stench.

  18. Iain says:

    Amazing, Labour telling big fat dirty lies. Do they think that people are so stupid and ignorant to believe the crap they spout.
    Their days of putting a red rosette on anything and it getting elected are thankfully gone.
    It is good to see the torY’s little red helpers getting their asses kicked.
    I would like to see some of the smug complacent bastards from my past cope with their fall from power and influence to insignificance.
    In a lot of ways they are worse than the tory party,with them you know that you are getting a bastard that will shaft you while the labour party are there to fool the gullible and stupid.

  19. Legerwood says:

    Muscleguy at 7:09 pm

    Michelin complaining about cheap imports from Asia and asking the EU to enact anti-dumping measures is a bit rich – Michelin has 4 factories in Asia!

  20. Tom Busza says:

    Legerwood @ 6.07 pm

    Actually, Michelin have 8 factories in Asia:

    India 1 (truck tyres)
    China 2 (both producing car tyres amongst other products)
    Thailand 5 (3 of which produce car tyres, etc.)

    As you say, a bit rich.

  21. Robert Peffers says:

    @William Habib Steele says: 29 December, 2018 at 7:26 pm:

    ” … The Scottish Government must do whatever is necessary to repeal the Treaty of Union and the Act of Union.”

    The Act of Union passer by the Kingdom of England died along with the Kingdom of England Parliament that put itself into permanent recess in 1707. Westminster is not legally that Parliament. In any case the English ACT of Union was only that parliaments acceptance of the Treaty of Union – as was the old Scottish Parliament’s Act of Union their acceptance of the Treaty of Union.

    The legally binding legislation is the Treaty of Union and that Treaty has been a sham since 1 May 1707 as Westminster has always claimed it is the old Parliament of the Kingdom of England that continued after 30 April 1707 and that was made abundantly clear in the paper commissioned by the Westminster Parliament during indyref1 and was expressed by David Mundell thus:-

    “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

    Their problem is that the Treaty of Union does no such thing and that Treaty of Union is the actual written constitution of the United Kingdom and is the real legal standing of the bipartite United Kingdom but a legal standing that has never been implemented as Westminster has never treated the Kingdom of Scotland according to that Written Constitution contained in the Treaty of Union.

    Remember also that the Treaty of Union is a live international Treaty of Union for if it isn’t so there would be no state called the United Kingdom.

    Forget the individual Acts of Union – they have been dead for 311 years. Only the Treaty remains a live international treaty but one that cannot be legally reconciled with a devolved system that splits the two partner United kingdom up as four countries with England having no actual parliament but passing down, (devolving), the Powers of the Country/Kingdom of England to the Kingdom of England’s only legal partner in the two partner United Kingdom.

  22. robertknight says:

    The Labour Party makes former US President Richard Nixon look like a man who should have been considered to be both honest and truthful.

    Bring forth your gullible, your ignorant and your feeble minded, and we shall lie to them – for we are the Labour Party, and you, the electorate, the People, are worthy of our deceit.

  23. Arthur Thomson says:

    All these Labour lies are being spouted under Corbyn’s “leadership”. He is a total fraud. In truth he is a creepy hypocrite who is utterly devoid of morals.

    And yet there are people who, despite the evidence, come on here and slip in little comments to suggest that he is a good guy.

    He isn’t a good guy and destroying the independence movement is one of his goals. Supporters of Corbyn’s Labour are not supporters of Scottish independence. They are Brits to their core. they are part of the 30 percent who will always oppose Scotland’s independence. Dependence is a key element of their ideology of harnessing the vulnerable – which is how they like to perceive the Scots.

    Corbyn apologists who come on here are trolls.

  24. Rock says:

    Is there any really independent ombudsman or regulator in the United Kingdom with whom a complaint could be raised for such a blatant lie by Labour?

  25. Rock says:

    Iain says:
    29 December, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    “Do they think that people are so stupid and ignorant to believe the crap they spout.”

    They do and they are right, that is the sad fact about Scotland.

  26. Rock says:

    Arthur Thomson says:
    29 December, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    “All these Labour lies are being spouted under Corbyn’s “leadership”. He is a total fraud. In truth he is a creepy hypocrite who is utterly devoid of morals.”

    The SNP will lose seats to Labour because of Corbyn.

    That is the sad fact about Scotland.

    The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

  27. Bobp says:

    Artyhetty 6.37pm. Aye McConnell sent back 1.5billion to Westminster, nothing to spend it on in Scotland. But maybole in ayrshire cried out for a bypass for over 30 yrs of heavy articulated traffic passing through their narrow high st from stranraer and now cairnryan.Shame it took the SNP to start construction on it for this “loyalist” area. Wonder if they’ll appreciate that. Or still vote for the liebor/Tory scum who hoodwinked them for years.

  28. K1 says:

    Oh fuck of Rock. You could say anywhere in the world that ‘people are stupid cause they voted blah blah blah’, hardly some insightful input is it?

    We have relentlessly covered the same old ground that this is more to do with the media and the lack of honesty from journalists and the overarching London centric bubble that the media operate from.

    The whole system is corrupt in other words. That’s why Wings is such a boon, because many ‘former’ Labour voters voted Yes on the back of Wings exposing time and again the lies that Labour and it’s other pal Tory spout to maintain power.

    So spare us your rotten stupidity on these matters and blaming people for being ignorant, the world is full of ignorance, nothing ‘specially’ so about Scotland in this regard. Ya daftie.

  29. Hamish100 says:

    Rock says

    The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland

    and this comes from Rock?

    Still such blanket comments are just silly.

  30. Dorothy Devine says:

    And our ‘reliable’ media will either back them to the hilt or pretend not to notice.

    Shameful/ shameless bastards that they are.

  31. Ken500 says:

    Shameless. They tell lies and call wolf so many times no one with any sense believes a word they say. The unionists trying to bring Scotland down. They also quote people nos instead of households. To try and put the figures up. There are reports 106 children in Scotland were homeless ie in temporary accomodation. The number for the rest of the UK was massively higher pro rata. Same with most of these figures. They are all much higher in the rest of the UK because the Scottish Gov has been building affordable houses. More in Scotland than in the rest of the UK in total. (Not pro rata)

    The Tory/unionists supported by Labour have cut education £6Billion a year. Cut NHS £4Billion a year. Welfare £3Billion a year. All intended from 2015 to 2020. An absolute disgrace. They are sanctioning and starving people. Then spending £Billions on HS2 and Hinkley Point. A total waste of money with no business case.

    Fifity years of Labour. The state of Scotland before the SNP made improvements everywhere you look. The SNP have had to mitigate all the Tory/unionists cuts. While the Scottish budget is cut every year 10%. Despite the (UK) Scottish tax revenues rising. Austerity was totally unnecessary and a total waste of time and money. Used to give the wealthier in the rest of the UK tax breaks while people starved.

    The unionists councils spending money like there is no tomorrow. On empty, shoos, offices and underocvupied hotels. £Billions in debt. Wasting public money on grotesque monstrosities. Without a mandate, £Millions wasted. Totally unnecessary. Then not funding essential services. Most of them should be in jail. It is scandalous.

    Thank goodness for the SNP building the AWPR after forty years. It is like coming into the modern world.

  32. dakk says:

    Rock says:
    29 December, 2018 at 9:32 pm
    Is there any really independent ombudsman or regulator in the United Kingdom with whom a complaint could be raised for such a blatant lie by Labour?

    Eh no Rock

    Even if it was a lie there isn’t such a body.

    But it’s not even a lie.

    It’s just plain old british deceit.

  33. Ken500 says:

    Those appalling Tories posing and going on about foodbanks. Looking for cheap publicity. They make people sick. Horrendous people. They should be totally ashamed. How they have the nerve.

  34. Rock says:

    K1 says:
    29 December, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    “Oh fuck of Rock. You could say anywhere in the world that ‘people are stupid cause they voted blah blah blah’, hardly some insightful input is it?”

    Anywhere else in the world where people voted No to independence after 307 years as a colony of England?

    I repeat: the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

    By the way, why don’t you start your very own “f” site?

  35. Bob Mack says:

    The Rock says—-who cares what the Rock says.

    WWF if I remember well.

  36. Ken500 says:

    Thank goodness for the internet and Rev Stu.

    These lying manipulators Paying people to make up lies and the lowlives doing it to line their pockets. Misrepresenting graphs and figures etc. They have no shame. Deliberately leaving out the accompanying underline dates. They think they are smart and will get away with it.Yet no one with any sense believes a word they say.

  37. twathater says:

    I would like to see this obvious attempt to denigrate our SNP Scottish Governments REAL decision to fight homelessness brought up at the next FMQ’s , and for Nicola to ask the Dick to produce the actual figures for house building during their previous 13 years in charge of Scotland , and when the dick goes into his bouncing bunny routine Nicola can produce the real figure of 6 and can then ask how people are supposed to believe the failed promises party

    As FMQ’s is supposed to be broadcast live this would be an ideal opportunity for Nicola to expose the utter hypocrisy and duplicity of liebour in Scotland

    This brings to mind a phrase attributed to I think lard foulkes ( and the bastirts are daen it deliberately )

  38. Rock says:

    dakk says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    “Eh no Rock

    Even if it was a lie there isn’t such a body.

    But it’s not even a lie.

    It’s just plain old british deceit.”

    Lie or deceit, can’t the SNP government in Scotland set up a body to combat it?

    Aren’t Scots “sovereign”?

  39. Rock says:

    Bob Mack says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    “The Rock says—-who cares what the Rock says.”

    The likes of you obviously do care a lot, but get extremely frustrated as you are unable to counter the points I make, and are forced to repond with the type of nonsense you just posted.

    Is anyone forcing the likes of you to respond with nonsense which has nothing to do with the comments I posted?

  40. dakk says:


    I believe Keith Brown has been appointed as a rebuttal officer or suchlike for what it’s worth.

  41. Phronesis says:

    Addressing homelessness and the complex routes into homelessness are at the centre of many ScotGov policies devised under the SNP leadership.

    Ethical policies ,a strong focus on human rights are driving policies , the next logical step is to be in control of our country’s entire economy and all levers of power to build the kind of country that Scotland should be.

    ‘five regional local authority Housing Options Hubs, which cover all local authorities and focus on homelessness prevention
    * the Health and Homelessness Steering Group, which assists NHS boards in implementing the Health and Homelessness Standards (see below)
    * Community Planning Partnerships, Health Boards and Integrated Joint Boards ensuring services are planned for, designed and delivered in ways that meet the needs of homeless people
    * the Homelessness Prevention and Strategy Group, a joint Scottish Government and Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) group which works to embed prevention of homelessness activity across Scotland’

    ‘The Scottish Government has also taken concerted action on housing – ending the right to buy which will protect 15,500 homes over a decade, kick-started a new generation of council housing,and, since 2007, have delivered over 78,000 affordable homes. And in this parliamentary term, we are investing more than £3 billion to deliver at least 35,000 homes for social rent, as part of 50,000 affordable homes… In our work to build a Scotland where people are treated with fairness, dignity and respect, there is no place for homelessness or rough sleeping’

  42. Bobp says:

    Watching all those “proudscotbut ” supporters at ibrox today flying their union jack flags with the saltire imposed on the other side. Where the f**k would a psychiatrist even start trying to analyse that sort of mentality.

  43. Rock says:

    Ken500 says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:15 pm

    “They think they are smart and will get away with it.Yet no one with any sense believes a word they say.”

    About 25% of the voting population in Scotland voted Labour at the last election in Scotland, but I will be happy to be corrected.

    They are smart (in lying and deceiving) and they do get away with it. That is the sad fact about Scotland.

  44. Rock says:

    Bobp says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:28 pm

    “Watching all those “proudscotbut ” supporters at ibrox today flying their union jack flags with the saltire imposed on the other side. Where the f**k would a psychiatrist even start trying to analyse that sort of mentality.”

    As I say: the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

  45. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scots are sovereign individuals but control of broadcasting in Scotland is held by the parliament of another country*, one that operates a different constitutional principle to Scotland. So natch. Scotland needs to tow the line and we must deffer our sovereignty to that parliament. A parliament that intends forcing Brexit on Scotland. Any Scot supporting this situation is not a reasonable individual as the have abandoned the principle of self-interest, and so also rational thought. They are ideological beings detached from reality in a world of their own delusional, wishful thinking.

    * by weight of English constituencies.

  46. Bobp says:

    Here rock behave yersel,or the usual suspects will accuse you and I of being the same person. And working for the same regiment.

  47. Rock says:

    dakk says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:24 pm


    I believe Keith Brown has been appointed as a rebuttal officer or suchlike for what it’s worth.”

    Probably completely ineffective.

    Does the SNP government not have the powers to set up a really independent Regulator in Scotland, with real powers to deal with this?

    “homelessness rises under the SNP” is such blatant deceit by Labour, saving it from an outright lie simply because of a slight increase last year.

  48. Bobp says:

    CameronB Brodie.always said the SG should kick up f**k and demand that broadcasting should be devolved.

  49. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think they should be kicking it as high as they can. 😉

  50. Dr Jim says:

    Call me cynical but:

    Many people are expressing a desire to help EU citizens at this time, but many EU citizens are afraid of retaliation against them by the UK government if this happens

    This is how it starts and the folk from the EU recognise it because they’ve seen it before and they’re afraid, so some want their documents without trouble and others are leaving afraid for the future, it’s 1930s Germany all over again with the right wingers defending it with the same propaganda (If people have done nothing wrong then they’ve nothing to fear) Heard it, seen the footage and the camps and all that follows

    We’ve all seen their stories online and if they’re afraid, who’s next

    Some of you may have seen the plans to fill the shortages for agricultural workers in the harvesting season
    Apparently they’re going to employ African workers and bring them over in boatloads, and now that they’re getting out of the EU they won’t have to worry about minimum wage anymore will they

    I think we’ve seen something like this before as well

    The Tories and Labour now posses the power of a time machine and they intend to use it

  51. Rock says:

    Bobp says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    “Here rock behave yersel,or the usual suspects will accuse you and I of being the same person. And working for the same regiment.”

    The “usual suspects” succeed in scaring away most posters who dare to have an opinion different from theirs, but we must not let them impose their will.

    They don’t even have the decency to respect the wishes of the owner of this site:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (By hook or by Cook)
    25 January, 2018 at 12:03 pm

    “I’m getting really increasingly tired of this.


    Not everyone who disagrees with you on something is a troll or an MI5 agent. I’m going to start shutting threads down without warning if people keep getting into this bollocks.”

  52. Ken500 says:

    22% and decreasing. Not smart enough. Going down and down to oblivion. Into single figures? Tories the same on the downward slope. The tipping point ever nearer. No one can win them all but most of them. A few thousand? No wonder the terraces are empty. Certainly not representative of Scotland. Losing ground.

  53. Bobp says:

    I don’t see any reason why the SG cannot demand devolved broadcasting,and I also don’t see any legitimate reason why it should be refused. Why as a nation are we accepting this sh**e?.

  54. Rock says:

    Ken500 says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:15 pm

    “Thank goodness for the internet and Rev Stu.”

    I whole heartedly second that.

    Rock (26th October – “Gremlins in the machine”)

    “Scotland owes no bigger debt than to one man and his ten year old computer.”

    Bob Mack says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    “The Rock says—-who cares what the Rock says.”

  55. Dr Jim says:

    The Scottish government have demanded devolution of broadcasting several times but are not supported by the rest of the Scottish parliament

    And we know who they are

  56. Rock says:

    Dr Jim says:
    29 December, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    “The Scottish government have demanded devolution of broadcasting several times but are not supported by the rest of the Scottish parliament

    And we know who they are”

    What about the previous SNP majority government in Scotland?

    Are the “independence supporting” Greens against devolution of broadcasting in the current SNP minority government?

    Rock (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

    “56 out of 59 SNP MPs with 50% of the vote was highly undemocratic.

    And even then, they achieved ZERO for Scotland at Westminster.

    Nicholas Soames is right – if the SNP MPs had a sense of self respect, they would have come back when the Scotland Act miserably failed to deliver “The Vow” and the 56 SNP MPs were completely ignored and humiliated.”

  57. Rock says:

    Ken500 says:
    29 December, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    “22% and decreasing. Not smart enough.”

    You are in denial.

    Lies and deceit like this have the aim of keeping that support and increasing it, and it works.

    The SNP lost half a million voters and 21 of their 56 MPs at the last Westminster election.

    It is my prediction that they will lose many more seats to Unionists United at the next Westminster election.

    I will be happy to be proved wrong.

  58. Hamish100 says:


    stop telling porkies.

    you don’t give a toss.

  59. Cactus says:

    Upon them yon bonnie banks in Scotland.

    Here we fuckin’ go Clutha!

  60. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The Labour Party in Scotland registered at 14% in the last poll with the Tories at 25%.

    There was virtually no media comment about this because the media has invested huge expectation that a promoted Labour revival would harm the SNP and the opposite has happened.

    I am fairly sure the death of the Labour Party in Scotland continues and the Tory Party is not maintainng its 25% position. Even if it is it will not and cannot go any higher but is the main repositary of the unionist faith.

    The Labour Party had a choice in Scotland

    It could have chosen to work with the SNP and oppose the Tories, Tory policies and Brexit
    It could choose to collaborate with the Tories against the SNP (and support Brexit in London unlike three quarters of the Scottish population).

    It has made the wrong choices and will not recover.

    There must be some thoughtful people in the Labour Party (and probably in the Tories) assessing their futures from their present positions.

    Write nicely to them and tell them the door is open.

  61. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 11.09

    “I will be happy to be proved wrong.”

    No you won’t, so stop talking rubbish.

    The SNP is now a the highest point in the polls that it ever has been,around 9 points higher than its diminishing polling figure just before that “snap “election.

    Recent assessment of the polls by various respected sources have the SNP regaining beween nine and fifteen seats.

    As it is very difficult now for any well informed person to go down to the polling station vote for Labour or Tory in Scotland I suspect by default the SNP might actually get well over 50 seats again if there was a General Election and quite possibly a majority of the vote.

    Which is probably why we won’t get a General Election.

    I won’t be replying to any of your infantile posts again. They are entirely without any political merit and don’t justify wasting of time.

  62. Cactus says:

    New bar… different position, come here Scotland 😉

    Slidin’ daurs & change Jim Murphy’s drawers.

    That’s the noveau truth @ 42 folks.

    SLR damaged.

  63. dakk says:

    ‘@ Rock said

    ‘Does the SNP government not have the powers to set up a really independent Regulator in Scotland, with real powers to deal with this?’

    Free speech,so I would think not.

    Either way they are doing far more than you or I to give us a chance of Independence.

    Warts and all.

  64. I remember British Nationalist MP Ian Murray used the same distortion of the facts in UK Parliament,

    it accused the SNP Gov of a decline in Police numbers,

    where the numbers were still a 1000 more than when its lot were in charge,

    but had taken a small drop due to natural wastage.

  65. Thepnr says:

    Doesn’t matter how Labour or the Tories will try to spin it the evidence is clear for any that care to look. The SNHS is by far the best performing in the UK, crime levels are at the lowest ever recorded while rising dramatically elsewhere.

    More new houses have been built in Scotland for social rent than in England with tens times the population. Homelessness is falling, elsewhere rising. The icing on the cake is that an SNP government have managed to do this at the same time as income has fallen due to Labour and Tory austerity.

    Not only that but we have a bonny new bridge over the Forth, a bypass around Aberdeen, a spanking new hospital in Glasgow and the railway to the Borders reopened.

    All these Britnat bastards have to offer Scotland is LIES!

  66. Ghillie says:

    Is there any way of getting the highlighted graph onto the Slab home page?

    And emailed to all our MSPs and MPS – a wee back to work present?

    Well done our alert reader =)

    It’s almost as if they think they can get away with it. Silly.

  67. Cubby says:

    Britnats lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

    Rock = Britnat = lies.

    Rock = Rockshit = Britshit = lies.

    Rock = Rockshit = Britshit = Nostradamus = lies.

  68. K1 says:

    Well ah comfort masel in the knowledge that I’m not a sinister little stalking shitebag like you Rock…dare you to ‘lecture’ the Rev about writing the word fuck on a screen, ya imbecilic scrudbucket.

  69. Thepnr says:


    I’ll keep “scrudbucket” in mind, just as I have with Ghillies “clusterbourach” both might come in very useful in future 🙂

  70. potter says:

    Rock f$%k off, yer boring.

  71. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Rock @ a..z,

    How amazingly pleasant it was of late to have a day or so without having to scroll past all your repetetive self-indulgent noxious twaddle. You have a virtual BO problem, bud.

    (Just thought you should know, since you have no apparent sense of smell either.)

  72. Cactus says:

    Aaaaad Love.

    Times tollo.

  73. Cactus says:

    What the fock.. whom the fuck is tollo?

    Still thinking immediately…

    Back in ra Catty.


  74. TheItalianJob says:

    Never trust the Labour Party. Have never done anything constructive for Scotland. Only deceived the Scottish electorate for the benefit of their WM masters.

    Biggest Labour liar and worst MP and PM of all time the sinister and terrible Gordon Brown.

  75. Cactus says:

    Came close to Bollo, but that’s the Mighty B.

    Gettin’ closer to something…

    Hey Caledonia xx.

  76. Cactus says:

    Outside… gaun in.


    x3 too’s.


  77. TheItalianJob says:

    Have a guid nicht Cactus.


  78. Cactus says:

    A good marnin’ tae ye TheItalianJob…

    Ahm just gettin started..

    We have viewers.

  79. twathater says:

    Hey guys the fud even gives himself away , he posted


    This is from the rev so we can’t complain about his fuckwittery when you engage with him , but if no one responds to his interminable pish postings we can then inform the rev that all he is doing is repeating posters with no one responding , lets face it he has been disrupting the threads for yonks , now he has basically taken over the whole threads with numerous postings of pish how many people look in and see his disruptive posts and some responses and just decide to go elsewhere .
    He is doing what he is being paid to do and every response the twat gets makes him look more successful

  80. Cactus says:

    Take a deep breath Scotland.

    iScotland is So close.

    In oor lifetime.

  81. Cactus says:

    Let us get fucked up…

    Ye game like?

    Aye ahm xxx.

  82. Cactus says:

    Don’t be shy… show us yer aye.

  83. TheItalianJob says:

    Aye Guid morning Cactus. It’s that time indeed. Let’s look forward to the New Year. Big things await us folk who have been patient.

    Yes is the way forward for oor people of Scotland.

    Let it be oor year. All the best.

  84. Cactus says:

    Ahm a rebel dude…

    Ah’ve just smoked a ciggy inside…

    Ahm a rebel Wingers.

    Love is good.

  85. Cactus says:

    Ahm at the back stage in the Catty, on ra stage…

    We have some people.

    We Love U.

  86. Cactus says:

    Welcome to the middle of the quickening…

    Scotland knows.


  87. Jim Watson says:

    I have only scanned previous comments but did not see the big glaring lie being mentioned so here it is folks: – straight from the horse’s mouth…

    “The next labour government will make 8,000 affordable homes available for homeless people on day one, together we can make sure that next Christmas is different in Scotland, a Christmas with Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister – Rebuilding Scotland for the many by the many”

    So essentially on day one Labour at Westminster with Jeremy at the helm are going to rip up the devolution settlement and make housing a reserved matter. I wonder what other dastardly plans they have to grab power back to Westminster…

    Also, how exactly re they going to make 8,000 homes available on day one? If memory serves me correctly, did Labour Scottish Branch only manage to build only SIX social houses when they last held the reins at Holyrood…

    I wonder if this would be more believable if it was written in big letters on the side of a bus…

  88. Cactus says:

    Normally if ye smoke a ciggy inside the venue ye get chucked out…

    Ahm working on it, aye ahm unseen.

    One is beyond.

    Yer maw.

  89. Cactus says:

    Dr Jim…

  90. Cactus says:

    Swearing on that 17….l

    Love X.

    Dinnae be shy… show us yer AYE.

    Cheers Rev, SO close.

  91. Cactus says:

    Yer maw…..

    Never forget that… EVER.

    She knows.


  92. Cactus says:

    Don’t give a FUCK.



  93. Cactus says:

    Gonna get out of here before aye get lucky…

    Pour one intae a bin-bag…

    Ian Brotherhood kens.

    And Love.

  94. Cactus says:

    Next year is gonna be SO fucking amazing…

    We shall see Scotland.

    Fuckin’ Love U.


  95. Cactus says:

    Aye can still CU…


    Ahm frae Glasgow.

    Fuck the fuck…


    Reverse it!

  96. Cactus says:

    Hey Scotland, wait till we see midnight…

    When was that..

    Love all.


  97. Cactus says:

    Hey Glasgow, ahm oan Midland St, Glasgow kebab time.

    NOW is ra time for ke-bab…

    It is SO hard.

    Mon dong.


  98. Cactus says:

    Oswald St is of the NOW….

    Freak out like.


    Sing U..


  99. Cactus says:

    Motherfuckers keep trying to put ma hat on…

    Apprendre good people.

    Give it time.

  100. Cactus says:

    Apprendre you Scottish man and woman you…

    Too think is 2 believe.

    Et D’amour…

  101. Cactus says:

    One gets SO used to being single…

    Anybuddy wanna FUCK…?

    Call me. 😉

  102. cearc says:

    Hi, Cactus. Have a nice stroll.

  103. Cactus says:

    Ra cunts…

    They are around U everywhere…

    Anna wanna be with U…


  104. Cactus says:

    Hey cearc, cheers, check out the last thread…

    N check out dem chucks.

    Confidence rising.

    Love U babe xx.

  105. cearc says:

    They chooks are already the wallpaper on my PC! (replacing ‘we did 6 impossible things before breakfast’)…

    I just stepped outside of the hoos with a coffee. The air is thick with the sweet scent of Daphne. Bonny.

  106. Cactus says:

    What is Love.

    Baby don’t hurt me.

    No more.

  107. Cactus says:

    One is HOME…

    Ahm in Love wae ma neighbour… is zat cool?

    She disnae know… or does she..

    It’s gonna bring U down.


  108. Cactus says:

    Hey Tinto Chiel… got me a new Dell computer like…

    Welcome me to Candy Crush..

    Level 24 onwards.


  109. Cactus says:

    Aye ahm in Lurve with you…

    Miss Sarah..

    Try me.

  110. Cactus says:

    Love love love love love…

    Whit’s dat yer sayig?


  111. Cactus says:

    Whom is gonna save me…?

    One is dancing…

    Et smiling.

  112. Cactus says:

    Today is the last Sunday of 2018…

    Whatcha gonna do about it?

    Aye know.


  113. Cactus says:

    Have you ever seen ra rain…

    Yes and aye know.

    Love U XX.

  114. Cactus says:

    One is at an impasse…

    Just because ahm no entertaining ra night, we have…

    – GTA5
    – Candy Crush
    – Fridge

    Somebuddy save me Scotland, please

    Aye can CU.

  115. Cactus says:

    Sunday the 30th of December 2018…

    How do you be gorgeous?

    Aye be good.

  116. Cactus says:

    Be telescopic… see what ye’ve yet tae see…

    Love thy neighbour…

    Aye do 🙂

  117. Cactus says:

    Fuck something… ahm beyond the morning…

    To vent is important.

    To vent is good.

    Vent Scotland!


  118. Cactus says:

    Ahm gaun furra new dram William Wallace…

    Let’s call it a hauf friend..

    Are ye with me?

    Aye am.

  119. Cactus says:

    Hey Sunday…

    What’s yer plans fur this fine day here like?

    You grooving?

    Ye pumpin’?

    Be sticky.

  120. Cactus says:

    Do you ever get that feeling where you say… what the fuck?

    Fuck has a manifestation on many levels.

    Fuck is NOT your enemy.

    Never forget that fucking fact.

    Understand apprendre.

  121. Cactus says:

    FUCK is not your enemy, never forget that FACT.

    Get with it:

    Today is Sunday.

  122. Ian says:

    It appears that according to Labour there’s also no connection between building houses and homelessness.

  123. Col says:

    Thought I had some interesting comments to read through from later on last night. Silly me. Wings over cactus is it now?

  124. Ken500 says:

    Labour build 6 affordable houses.

    Labour would rather go in with the Tories in illegal coalition and borrow and spend £Millions on empty, shops, offices and underoccupied hotels. Then they cut spending on essential services, affordable house, education, proper drink/drug facilities and social care. £Millions being wasted every year. The unionist way of total corruption. Wasting £Millions that could be better spent. Buildings lying empty. People were protesting in the street and they still went ahead with the waste.

    The illegal wars blowing the world to bits. Wasting £Trns that could have been better spent. The world still trying to deal with the affects of the illegal actions. The Labour/unionists appalling actions. Trying to blame everyone else. Secrecy and lies.

    The 3rd rejects telling a load of lies in the political system they colluded to destroy. Destruction all around. Along with the insane corruption and lies. Once again now trying to destroy the world economy with Brexit and cause another world recession.

  125. Ken500 says:

    Cost of the monstrosity £7Million a year. Add together all the other waste £Millions. Brorrowed and spent on nonsense, wasteful projects. PPI. Still at it. Even though they are advised to stop. An absolute scandal of unionist public waste.

    Hinkley Point and HS2 another collosal waste. They have been advised time and time against it. Warned the figures are corrupt and manipulated, They just continue on regardless. Illegal wars they are warned against. Brexit they are warned against. They just continue on and one when everyone else has to take the consequences of the corruption. Westminster unionist total collusive corruption. They colluded in a system from which they have most to gain.

  126. orri says:

    There’s a difference between making homes available and actually building them.

    For one thing you could deport enough undesirables, hint low paid EU citizens, to cover some of it.

    For another you could acquire unoccupied buildings such as holiday homes. Whether you bother paying for them is different matter.

    The living quarters in abandoned military bases is another possibility.The

    Also look out for the phrase “long term” or the definition of “homeless” being changed. Perhaps the rise and fall has more to do with Westminster than Holyrood. Same as they manipulated unemployment figures.

  127. Ken500 says:

    People in Scotland have to take ‘cramped’? trains because they voted Labour.

  128. Kangaroo says:

    Here is one for those of you who have been paying attention

    Sorry can’t get link to work

    Youtube channel T.R.U Reporting
    “The verified indictment of [HRC]”

    Dated 20 Feb 18

    HilaryClinton With a lot of others including FBI, judges and attorneys, congressmen etc

    For murder and a whole lot more.


    I believe there are a lot more prosecutions to come.

  129. Hamish100 says:

    I suspect cactus needs some help.

  130. Clootie says:

    Scoured the BBC sites and MSM…..but no mention of this false claim.
    However that is no real surprise !

  131. Hamish100 says:

    Cactus says:
    30 December, 2018 at 4:37 am
    One gets SO used to being single…
    Anybuddy wanna xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?
    Call me. ?

    Is this what WoSc wants to become. I certainly hope not.

  132. Ken500 says:

    Temporary homelessness can be because of social instability. Social reasons. Divorce death, lack of proper administration because of unionists who do not care. Mental health problems. Lack of social care provision by unionist Councils. Not supporting essential services. Doing the opposite of what they are required to do as supposed guardians of public money. The blatant knowing abuse.

    The SNP Gov are doing all they can to be obstructed by unionist Councils breaking the Law and getting away with it. Even when the Police or regulators are informed they either do nothing. Or the censor has no consequent. They are not banned from public office. A relatively small fine which is totally out of proportion to the criminality and gerrymandering committed. Out of date UK legislation.

    Fraud and corruption at Westminster. Criminals being given ‘honours’ for favours. It just shows how corrupt the system has become. The unionist Parties have to drag people in off the streets to stand blatant criminals who break the Law with no censor. They will eventually be voted out for their corruption but the damage is already done. They are even running away from crucial Westminster votes now. Ducking and diving. So they can’t be held to account. The state of it. They want to chuck out their own relations because they do not like foreigners. That’s how ridiculous it has become. Hypocrites.

    It is stated that there are enough houses for everyone in Scotland. Just in the wrong place or not the essential size or needing renovation etc. The banks not lending can be an obstruction to ownership. Increased student debt.

    The SNP are committed to building or renovation 6,000 houses a year. There are 17,000 private/affordable houses constructed. 50,000 people die a year. 17,000 homes becoming available? More than enough homes for the population. 40,000 houses+ a year. Over five years 200,000 houses. More than enough. They give the homelessness figures as numbers instead of households. All households have different numbers. Household numbers would give a better indictation of numbers of houses required.

    Welfare benefit sanctions are causing increased rent arrears and ultimately homelessness. The cuts the Toryunionists have made have increased the problems. The Tories were elected on promises of supporting education and NHS. They cut both and Welfare (austerity) £Billions a year. Some of the politicians who did it are gone but the damage continues. Totally unnecessary because the tax revenues have increased. The said politicans still lingering in the background wasting £Billions of public money. Cameron milking the Chinese/British Consortium. Illegally. Clegg employed by tax evaders and corrupt law breakers. Most of them chould be in jail. Using technology to illegal gerrymandering.

  133. wull2 says:

    Its a long night watching over Scotland, and every hour it gets closer to sunrise,

  134. Iain mhor says:

    Deary me.
    I can scroll by the odd roaster usually and I started swerving the weekends after 9pm as the two-can-dans boak in the thread, but BTL is getting so out of hand now I doubt I’ll bother with weekends at all.

  135. HandandShrimp says:

    Labour lie, from the Iraq war to homelessness. It is a pathological compulsion.

  136. mac says:

    English media outlets telling us the Army, Navy and Air Force on standby due to the current “Crisis in the Channel”.

    WTF,,,,the other day they had ONE rubber dingy and yesterday they had NONE.

    I would hardly call that a “Crisis”.

    More like England’s lack of humanity to help their fellow man.

    And in the majority of these cases of people seeking asylum,,,they are sent back to the country they just left,,,so it has no impact on the English at all.

    The bottom line is that the English just hate Foreigners,,,,no matter who they are.

  137. McBoxheid says:

    Looking at the graph, there are 2 lines. One is applied as homeless and the other as assessed as homeless. Under the tories the gap was about 12-13000 of those whose claims were not accepted. By labour the gap started as 13000 and rose to a whopping 17000 homeless applications that were rejected. When the SNP took over the gap was the 17000 and fell to 6000.

    What does that mean?
    My interpetation is that more people climing homelessness were treated as homeless by the SNP than any unionist party. The lower graph shows also that the total of actual homeless have been vastly reduced by the SNP.

    Building council houses and get people work in Scotland carried out as policy by the SNP despite tory policy, supported by labour has gone a long way to mitigate what the english parties are doing.

    Labour has also the worst record of accepting claims of homelessness in Scotland over the period of the graph.

  138. galamcennalath says:

    Tories – we’re a bunch of self centred callous barstards and we want everyone to know it!

    Labour – we’re a bunch of self centred callous barstards but we try to pretend otherwise!

    Twa cheeks o’ the ain erse.

  139. mac says:

    And the BBC now reporting that Liam Fox is “warning” us that if Teresa’s Brexit Plan is voted down at Westminster then there is a good chance there will be no Brexit at all.

    UTTER BULLSHIT,,,,if Teresa’s Brexit Plan is voted down at Westminster then it will mean there is a No Deal Brexit.

    And we will be leaving the EU on March 29th on the hardest of all Brexits.

    This scenario is a major problem for the English,,,but a golden opportunity for Scotland to become an independent nation.

    Bring it on England.!!!

  140. Hamish100 says:

    Iain mhor says:
    30 December, 2018 at 10:06 am
    Deary me.
    I can scroll by the odd roaster usually and I started swerving the weekends after 9pm as the two-can-dans boak in the thread, but BTL is getting so out of hand now I doubt I’ll bother with weekends at all.

    Some are taking over the site not to promote Independence but their own wee pathetic lives. Sad but true.
    WofS is damaged by this in my view.
    Is it intentional I wonder?

  141. robertknight says:

    Somebody (Rev) seriously needs to ‘take out the trash’.

    If people want to go online simply to spout sh*te, (Cactus), please set up a Twitter account and ‘knock yourself out’.

    Spare the rest of us having to scroll past your insightful outpourings.

  142. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT. This full-on British imperialist agenda getting pushed in the press, would be hilarious if it wasn’t so dangerous. England is suffering from “post-colonial malaise”, which is being encouraged by extreme elements in the Westminster/Whitehall bubble. Time to wake up and smell the coffee peeps.

    Brexit, Retrotopia and the perils of post-colonial delusions


    Brexit shocked liberal elites across Europe, instigating a burgeoning new field of research. Brexit scholarship tends to puzzle over two questions: what happened? What will happen now? This article addresses the latter and builds upon scholarship that suggests that “identity” mattered as much as economics. Digging deeper into British identity, this essay borrows from social-psychology to analyse how temporal status comparisons contributed to Brexit. It argues how the peculiar qualities of British identity narrative make Eurosceptic complaints about sovereignty, Brussels and “control”, particularly salient to nationalists. In short, negative temporal status comparisons with Britain’s former self underpins its long-term Euroscepticism: When Brits learn they once “ruled the world”, the European Union’s practices of compromise compare poorly: Cooperation is easily presented as subordination. Brexit can thus be understood as a radical attempt to arrest Britain’s decline by setting sail for a future based on a nostalgic vision of the past.

    KEYWORDS: Brexit, European Union, identity politics, status seeking, foreign policy, British politics

  143. Cactus says:

    Hehe, some are SO easily offended, Yes some take it SO personally, ye wonder why they take it tae heart, ye have tae be there at the time peeps hehe.

    Ah just push it, push it good, ah just push it, p-push it real good.

    Did ye like my last linky song at 6:22am grumpy people?

    Dinnae fash yersel, aye return a smile to you.

    SO much fun to be had. 🙂

  144. robertknight says:


    Twitter account – get one!

  145. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    Another very excellent Sunday National today. Really look forward to getting it.
    Particularly impressed by Andrew Tickell’s article
    “Stuck in the muddle with EU”

  146. Cactus says:

    One will leave you with this ra now finger-waggers:

    Scottish Labour are a broken telescope.

  147. CameronB Brodie says:

    Folk generally don’t click links, so here are some click-throughs from my previous link.

    The Organic Crisis of the British State: Putting Brexit in its Place

    The Brexit vote: a divided nation, a divided continent

    Taking back control: the political implications of Brexit

  148. Gary45% says:

    As said many, many times on previous posts, Labour/Norf and Saf got away with lying constantly because in the “good old days” it was harder to call them out on election promises etc, but the introduction of the internet and the likes of sites like WoS, has shown them as the chancers they have been for decades.(Other unionist parties included).
    And they “Still Don’t get It”.

  149. Socrates MacSporran says:

    The first BTL post on this thread was posted at 5.3pm on Saturday night. A further 24 pieces were posted btl before 9.32pm., when Rock made the first of his postings.

    Between 9.32pm and 11.17pm there were 34 btl postings, 13 of them from Rock, who then went silent, just as Cactus made his first contribution. Between 11.17pm and 1.31am, there were 13 postings – hardly surprising at that time on a Saturday night/Sunday morning, and only two of these were from Cactus.

    Between 1.31am and 6.22am, however, there were 49 btl comments posted, 43 of them from Cactus, and, to be honest, mostly pish.

    I have questioned Cactus’s contributions to this site before, and been assured by long-established and well-regarded regulars, that Cactus is kosher and, in Chewin’ the Fats terms: “a Good Guy.”

    Fair enough, also, I would not expect too-much in the way of useful political comment on this, or any other serious site, between the hours of 1am and 6am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning – but, it makes you wonder.

    Just suppose, a committed Winger had finally persuaded a soft No of his or her acquaintance to: “Check out Wings over Scotland and learn the truth which the msm isn’t telling you.”

    That soft No might well be impressed by the Rev’s usual excellent demolition of Labour pish, as in this post, but, they might then read Cactus’s Saturday night havering and decide: “Nah! I’ll stick with No, much more sensible people.”

    So, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.

  150. ScotsRenewables says:

    Slightly somewhat agree with Socrates …
    I enjoy your nighttime rants Cactus… sometimes… but other times it is a long scroll to the next nugget of reality.

    Get on Twitter, Cactus, and post a link to the first tweet each night so those of us who want to can follow your carousing through the Glasgow nightscape. You could go viral, become an Indy phenomenon and free up valuable Wings screen estate all at once.

  151. jfngw says:

    Realistically I don’t care if there is a second EU Ref, May’s deal or no deal. Scotland’s subservient position has now been completely exposed by this EU exit procedure. Ignored, ridiculed, agreements changed by unelected English Lords, the list is longer but this is just off the top of my head.

    The only option I am interested in voting on is to make Scotland responsible for its own future. I’m not interested waiting much longer for people of another country to determine my and my families fate, whether the medication we need is available, what country I can visit freely. This needs to be in our own hands, and the sooner the better.

    The Tory vision of the future seems to be military bases around the world, how much more delusional can they become. I don’t see my grand-children’s future as being cannon fodder for some historical empire building fantasists.

  152. mac says:

    What I see happening here is Cactus posting his night time updates and people complaining about what Cactus gets up to through the night.

    No political input.

    If you don’t like what this guy Cactus gets up to then don’t read it,,,

    And it is even more sole destroying when someone doesn’t like a certain contributor and posts that they don’t like that contributor …

    That is an even bigger waste of a post.

    If you don’t like what Cactus posts then ignore him.

    Simple as that.

  153. Wisdom from Socrates

  154. galamcennalath says:

    News via google …. “Britain’s defense secretary has said that the country could establish new military bases in the Caribbean and Far East after Britain leaves the European Union.” and “Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has suggested the UK should follow the example of low-tax Singapore as it forges a new position in the world after Brexit.”

    They out of their tiny little minds! What is more likely to happen is an England, devoid of Scotland’s wealth, will become an impoverished backward marginalised state on the fringes of Europe.

  155. wull2 says:

    I have said this before if the EU allows us to be taken out. I for one wont vote to join again, take note EU their will be more like me.

  156. mac says:

    Yes,,,the only thing going through the Square Mile in London after Brexit will be tumbleweed.

  157. Tackety Beets says:

    Like others, I used to read every post inc. Podmore etc but this last year or so I find myself scrolling past OFTEN.

    Cactus , I find myself now scrolling past yours too. Nothing personal , it was quirky & I get what you say. Sadly I have to suggest that the above are right.

    Please refrain & nip on to Twitter for these matters.

    I wish you Ara best for 2019 & look forward to following the Cactus tweets. Smiley Fing.

  158. Packhorse Pete says:

    Socrates @ 12.27

    “So, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.”

    Absolutely right. It’s just nonsense which would put off any uncommitted reader. Or is that the idea?

  159. Cubby says:

    Jim Watson @3.09am

    All the Britnat parties do Is just lie and their lies are becoming bigger and bigger and more ridiculous as they realise independence is coming and coming soon.

    It is best to assume anything they say now is a lie until some other reliable source tells you otherwise.

  160. Hamish100 says:

    mac — just advise your pal to post OT or have his own twitter account – which we can ignore at will.

    Independence is the goal. This will turn folk off the site which is a pity.

  161. mac says:

    Hamish 100

    Cactus is not my buddy,,,but he is also not my enemy.

    If you have issues with certain contributors then I would suggest you take it up with the site owner,,,,and not take up valuable space by posting your complaints on the open forum,,,where we have absolutely NO power to do anything about him.


  162. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Those who try to discuss the pros an’ cons of Indy/Brexit with trolls are suckers.

    And the trolls just LOVE a sucker.

  163. Lenny Hartley says:

    Packhorse Pete, re cactus commitment to the cause of an Indy Scotland, do not. Doubt his commitment. However I tend to concur that he went a bit Ott last night!

  164. mac says:

    From what I have seen of Cactus i think he is a singer/songwriter, who’s dress could be described as being like an American Country and Western singer, with his jeans, cowboy boots and cowboy hat.

    If i am correct then why don’t we encourage Cactus to put pen to paper and write some Indy Ballads we could all sing along to.

    Howz about it Cactus???

  165. wull2 says:

    It defiantly must be a slow news day, when even we on here are lowered to a certain discussion.
    He is not the only one I have to scroll by, the good thing with him, it is usually when I am asleep he posts.

  166. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    wull2 @ 13:00,

    Then alas you’re no wiser than you were before, since “The EU” can’t possibly do what you wish, since it is a collective of nation states, not the Great Federal Superpower of feverish BritNat imaginings, and (unlike London to us) actually respects the sovereignty of its individual members, for better or worse.

    If we want “The EU” to work for us, as it does for Ireland, we first have to do the heavy lifting of disentangling ourselves from this overbearing UK Union. Then we can be assured that our other neighbours will accept us with open arms.

  167. CameronB Brodie says:

    Another OT but I think it fits the “perspective” slant of the main topic. I’m wondering if Corbyn’s Brexit position is due to ideological objection to the EU, or cowardice in the face of populist, English nationalism. His acquiescence with the New Right’s agenda is reminiscent of Labour’s impotence in the face of Thatcher. A leaden-foot, English nationalist is no friend of Scotland’s, especially our vulnerable.

    Devolution: The Social, Political and Policy Implications of Brexit for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland


    The referendum vote for Remain in Scotland and Northern Ireland and the small majority for Leave in Wales immediately attracted much attention to the position of the devolved governments on Brexit negotiations and to the impact of Brexit on their jurisdictions. As the core of devolved powers relate to social policy, identifying the impact of leaving the EU on aspects of social policy is highly significant. This article examines the impact of EU programmes, funding, directives and regulations as delivered in recent years, noting the nature of the participation of the devolved administrations in EU decision making.

    The post-referendum concerns of the devolved governments and their approaches to Brexit and Brexit negotiations are explained. Also discussed are the likely major changes as well as possible changes that will take place in the operation of devolution after Brexit.

    Taking back Control or Empowering Big Business? New Risks to the Welfare State in the post-Brexit Competition for Investment

    Through the Looking Glass: Young People, Work and the Transition between Education and Employment in a post-Brexit UK

  168. jfngw says:


    I was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.

    I agree if we have a referendum and they are as equally cool I would have my doubts at again being a full member and joining one of the trade deals with them may be the better alternative.

    So I am still a remainer, but it is a two way partnership and they also need to indicate that Scotland would be a welcome member. I need more that soft words from our MEP’s about how much they value us. After all Westminster said this too and look where that led us.

  169. Terence callachan says:

    To Rock…..keep giving your point of view
    There are some not so clever people on here that use bad language and insults as a response to an opinion but that’s only because they don’t know any better.

    I have to say myself that I don’t agree with your point that the stupidest people in the world live in Scotland, a statement like that just doesn’t make sense so perhaps you could get your point of view over in a better way.

    The thing is we are all on the same side seeking Scottish independence some of us right wing some left wing some middle of the road ,it helps our joint cause if we can put our deeper politics aside whilst we chase independence.

  170. Ken500 says:

    The EU can’t do much because people voted NO. Vote NO you get nothing. People were warned. Time and time again. Some people never learn. Deceived and lied to again and again. Then everyone has to suffer the consequences. There will be another vote. Demographically support by all account will increase.

    It is quite boring going over it again and again. It was four years ago. Look to the future not the past. A New Year drawing. The Westminster imbeciles will be defeat they have been before. Many times. Look to the future. Just vote them out. The power is in the people’s hand. Just vote them out. So they can’t cause anymore trouble. In Scotland they just keep on being voted down. They are so crooked they changed the electoral system, to give themselves advantage, without a mandate.

  171. Thepnr says:


    “So I am still a remainer, but it is a two way partnership and they also need to indicate that Scotland would be a welcome member.”

    If by “they” you mean MEP’s and Ministers of other EU countries then there have been plenty of them openly stated in the last couple of years that an Independent Scotland would indeed be “a welcome member”

    One of the problems is that you won’t read this in any of the mainstream newspapers or hear it reported on the BBC.

    Here’s a couple of articles from spring 2017 by RT:

    Independent Scotland would be ‘most welcome’ in EU, say European politicians

    Breakaway Scotland’s return to EU would be ‘relatively speedy’ – German MEP

    Then from October and November this year in the National:

    Irish senator Neale Richmond says an independent Scotland would be welcomed back into EU

    Spanish Foreign Minister declares an independent Scotland would be welcome in EU

  172. Dan Huil says:

    Tory, Labour Libdums lie because they know they will not be challenged by the lying britnat media. Thank god for sites like WoS.

  173. Ken500 says:

    People voted NO IndyRef. There is much the EU could do if Scotland votes YES. They already provided support which brought about Devolution and the chance of an IndyRef along with smart people in Scotland. One of the best education systems in the world. Recognised worldwide. Scotland has friends and connections all over the world. A 40million diaspora who had to leave because of Westminster’s unequal actions,

  174. Cubby says:

    Terence Callachan@2.28pm

    Encouraging a Britnat who just posts anti Scottish independence pish. Why would you do that if you support Scottish independence?

    “The thing is we are all on the same side……..” what side do you think Rock is on ?? He’s not for Scottish independence – of that there is no doubt – he posts a lot of Britnat Rockshit and has done so for a very long time.

  175. Breeks says:

    The UK is currently trying to register 3 million EU Nationals, whom it expects to pay to register and apply for a residency permit. The Home Office explains the process will be easy and online, and will not require the filling in of 80 pages of forms.

    In April 1938, the Nazis were requiring the Jews to register all property worth over 5000 Reichmarks, and supply further information which provided the Nazis with information on who to discriminate against, which properties to confiscate, and in general to monitor the movement of people themselves so they could be rounded up.

    To make the process easier, the Nazis introduced coded identity cards; 05 for Jews, 01 for Jehovahs witnesses, 02 homosexuals etc. The cards recorded date of birth, gender, ethnicity occupation etc…. presumably to avoid the need for 80 pages of forms…

    The EU is a conglomeration of Nations where we are all treated the same, we can go, work, visit, or stay, get work wherever we like, see people, and get married and fully integrate ourselves with foreign customs and cultures.

    Unless we sever links with Westminster’s UK in the next 89 days, from the Shetlands to the Channel Islands, an iron curtain will have descended across the European Continent for the second time in living memory. Scotland will be a subjugated vassal state on the dark side of the fence.

    There you have it Scotland. Are you going to stand by while your EU National friends, wives, lovers and workmates are demeaned and segregated from us, “marked out” as different from us so they can be discriminated against by a xenophobic protofascist UK government, or are you going to make Scotland the kind of country which takes a stand against this retrograde BritNat segregation and prejudice and tells the UK Government and Home Office to go and royally f__k itself?

    This is Scotland, where we defend our hospitality with fearsome resolve.

  176. Cubby says:

    The Britnat lie pyramid.

    At the top of the pyramid are the Britnat liars. The small number of Britnats who control and issue the Britnat lies.

    In the middle of the pyramid are the Britnats who know they are being told lies but like the lies and are happy to be fed a diet of lies.

    At the bottom of the Britnat pyramid are the Britnat uninformed masses who do not have a clue and believe all the lies are true.

  177. jfngw says:


    I agree there has been some support, but the MSM has been working to undermine any story carried by RT so we would need much more coverage from pro-indy areas in this country and more comment in respected European papers would help.

    Also I’m not was not really referring to stories at this minute but when a decision to go for independence starts. It will be a hard enougg fight with only one supporting domestic paper (and even that one seems to have some unreliable independence contributors).

    Being isolated from the EU and the UK may be too much for some, although the purists will love it.

  178. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    jfngw at 1.58

    The EU took absolutely no formal position on our possible EU status pre referendum in 2014 but various statements, usually distorted or selective use of EU regulation, were ascribed to it by our media enemies. Various individuals (like Barosso) who had no official locus in the issue made statements to favour the UK.

    Significantly various people (like the German Vice Chancellor) have recently stated that Scotland’s accession to the EU at independence would be “seamless and immediate” and Spain has also indicated very clearly that it had no objection to an independent Scotland remaining in the EU as long as our independence is gained by legitimate means. These statements are not made carelessly.

    Europe is waiting for us. Be in no doubt about that.

  179. Thepnr says:


    I completely agree with you that more coverage from respected European newspapers and other sources would be most welcome. I would like to think that once the push towards Independence is on for real that the coverage from these sources will increase.

    All we as individuals then can do is to highlight the positive news on websites such as Wings and keep highlighting the lack of coverage of this positive (for Independence) news in the UK mainstream.

    I thought then that it worth repeating in full the story from my earlier RT link. At this stage this group and their support is fairly significant and recent since it’s only 2 months old. When the campaign starts in earnest I will have no problem in emailing the likes of these groups and other EU figures to try and raise the profile of Independence and keep it in the news if we can. We can all do our own wee bit.

    Independent Scotland would be ‘most welcome’ in EU, say European politicians

    Scottish parliamentarians were told their nation would be “most welcome” in the European Union if it were to vote for independence from the United Kingdom.

    The announcement came in an open letter signed by 50 European politicians, including 26 MEPs and members of both national and regional governments in Germany, Greece, Spain, Belgium and Ireland.

    “As elected representatives from across the European Union we have been heartened by your support for a Europe which is united in pursuit of progress and not divided by fear and self-interest,” the letter begins.

    “Democracy and mutual respect are at the heart of the European project and so, whilst we are saddened by the vote of a small majority for the United Kingdom to leave the EU, we respect this as a democratic decision of UK citizens.

    “We recognise that this was not your choice however and that Scotland voted strongly to remain within the EU. The question of Scotland’s constitutional future, and your relationships with the UK and the EU are for the people of Scotland to decide. It is not our place to tell Scotland what path you should take.

    “We regret that the UK’s government has chosen to follow the path of a ‘hard Brexit’ and has so far refused to properly take into account the preferences of Scottish citizens in the withdrawal process. Therefore, if Scotland were to become an independent country and decided to seek to maintain European Union membership, we offer our full support to ensure the transition is as swift, smooth, and orderly as possible.

    “Scotland would be most welcome as a full member of the European Union, with your five million European citizens continuing to benefit from the rights and protections we all currently enjoy.”

  180. Fionan says:

    Sorry but I agree with Socrates, Hamish 100 and others. Getting fed up of settling down to enjoy a good read courtesy of Stu, followed by the general wit, links and information btl. Only nowadays mostly it is just wasted time, and irritating as well, having to scroll and scroll to avoid Rock, his troll pals, those who persist in feeding them, and then to cap it all, to have scroll a lot more to avoid what appears to be comment after comment after endless comment of drunken haverings.

    Wings is losing enjoyment and information value. More and more often, I read Stu’s post then move to another blog to find more useful and entertaining BTL. Seems like the only way to avoid drink-talk (in other words pish).

  181. Graf Midgehunter says:

    jfngw says:

    “I was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.”

    One of the things hat you have to bear in mind when dealing with the EU/UK/Scotland situation, is that the EU is/was just as brainwashed by WM. Brit.Nat. propaganda as the rest us.

    The UK is the Member State from the POV of the EU.

    When representatives/trade leaders/journalists etc. from the EU visit the UK, who looks after them, where do they get their info from, who arranges their contact persons? Who is available for interviews?

    Everything is centred around the London “Bubble” where the supply of information is secured.

    If you needed research or trips to the “fringes of the regions” (London speak), there are plenty of people from the “Bubble” to help you find the “right” people. Funny isn’t it how many people speak English in Scotland or Wales..!?

    The EU couldn’t say much about Scotland because they didn’t interfere in the internal Members affairs but also because they didn’t know enough to really care. The brainwashing effect.

    In 2014, Scotland was still more or less an unknown political entity, historically for tourists utterly fabulous but politically..???

    IMO the turning point was the London Brexit fiasco starting 2015 and that has been a very rapid learning curve for the EU.

    Suddenly the true situation started emerging about the competence of London, the constitutional relevance of Scotland and the ever increasing role that Scotland is playing thanks to Nicola & Co. 🙂

    The EU doesn’t like being taken for a sucker and revenge is sweet.

    This time round I expect the EU to make more of an effort to open their mouths in more ways than one.

  182. Cubby says:

    I find it hard to fathom how some Independence supporters query whether of not the EU would accept Scotland as a member. It seems so obvious to me that the EU would accept Scotland it is a no brainer.

  183. Breeks says:

    Graf Midgehunter says:
    30 December, 2018 at 3:17 pm
    jfngw says:

    “I was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.”

    One of the things hat you have to bear in mind when dealing with the EU/UK/Scotland situation, is that the EU is/was just as brainwashed by WM. Brit.Nat. propaganda as the rest us.

    The UK is the Member State from the POV of the EU

    Why would the EU respect a Sovereignty which we Scots don’t even recognise ourselves? Even the SNP Government isn’t yet standing up for our Constitutional Sovereignty. What grounds or calling has Europe to do it? As it stands, it would be illegal for the EU to circumvent Westminster and speak to Scotland as a sovereign interlocutor.

    Do not look to Europe to do for us that which we won’t even do for ourselves. The onus is 100% on Scotland to change the recognised status of our government so that Scotland the Nation has Legal Personality, and can negotiate internationally.

    Everything the EU has provisionally offered Scotland, such as transitional holding pen status, is predicated by Scotland asserting its constitutional sovereignty. SCOTLAND MUST MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. Until we do, until we provide the EU with a sovereign interface, Europe’s hands are tied. It is our inaction which ties them.

  184. ScotsRenewables says:

    Re. Fionan 3.16

    I agree – reading the comments section of Wings is becoming less rewarding because of:

    – BritNat concern troll drivel and the provoked responses

    – Anti-English concern troll drivel over the franchise for IR2 and the provoked responses

    – Excessive drunken haverings

    – Excessively long posts by certain contributors that tend to go over the same ground again and again

    Nos. 1 and 2 in the list above are deliberate attempts to degrade the value of Wings as a resource, and – while it is entirely up to Stu – I for one would not worry about infringement of free speech if he decided to dump repeat offenders

    Nos. 3 and 4 are trickier, appealing to the restraint and better nature of the posters in question would be my preference.

    One thing is for sure, the Comments section of Wings is a less attractive place than it once was. And we can’t afford that as we approach the probably crunch.

  185. auld highlander says:

    Would an independent Scotland allow this…..

    For all you readers who would like to have redundant nuclear submarines dumped off the west coast.

  186. Colin Alexander says:

    Scotland is a part of an unfair, un-democratic Union, where Scotland has the legal status of a colony. The Scottish Govt / Holyrood Scottish Parliament is only a client Kingdom of the Evil Empire.

    Real power has always remained with UK Parliament.

    The major issue is that, as a colony, Scotland can never achieve its full potential, it always has and always will get a raw deal.

    Whoever is administering British rule at Holyrood on behalf of the UK Govt, makes little difference to that.

    Pro-independence politicians should be leading the fight for Scotland’s freedom, instead of administrating colonial servitude.

  187. SCOTROCK says:

    Sadly I agree with Fionan and Cactus should stop his ramblings which contribute nothing to this site. As for Rock …. not impressed with you at all

  188. CameronB Brodie says:

    Another OT of the perspective kind.

    Re-Doubling the Crises of the Welfare State: The impact of Brexit on UK welfare politics


    The double crisis approach distinguishes two kinds of challenge confronting modern welfare states: long-term structural problems and short-term difficulties resulting from policy choices which affect the success with which the long-term issues can be addressed. Structural challenges include two main areas:

    • globalisation and technological changes demanding that governments direct attention to national competitiveness, and

    • population ageing, requiring more spending on pensions, and health and social care.

    Recent policy-related problems include the austerity programme since 2010 which has been particularly directed towards benefits and services for working-age people. Responses to both kinds of challenge have set the stage for Brexit.

    Economics of Brexit: the aftermath

    European Structural Funds after Brexit

  189. Petra says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran says at 12:27 pm …. ”Between 1.31am and 6.22am, however, there were 49 btl comments posted, 43 of them from Cactus, and, to be honest, mostly pish.

    I have questioned Cactus’s contributions to this site before, and been assured by long-established and well-regarded regulars, that Cactus is kosher and, in Chewin’ the Fats terms: “a Good Guy.”

    Fair enough, also, I would not expect too-much in the way of useful political comment on this, or any other serious site, between the hours of 1am and 6am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning – but, it makes you wonder.

    Just suppose, a committed Winger had finally persuaded a soft No of his or her acquaintance to: “Check out Wings over Scotland and learn the truth which the msm isn’t telling you.”

    That soft No might well be impressed by the Rev’s usual excellent demolition of Labour pish, as in this post, but, they might then read Cactus’s Saturday night havering and decide: “Nah! I’ll stick with No, much more sensible people.”

    So, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.”


    Spot on SMS.

    Between those that come on here to encourage people to curse and swear (not to be found on any newspaper comment sections / decent sites such as WGD’s, Craig Murray’s etc) and the drivel being posted by people like Rock and Cactus this site is going right down the stank, imo.

    Are they the role-models for an Independent Scotland? No way. Not only are they no doubt loosing us support they are also driving away many half-decent posters. What I see now is a site that has gradually been taken over by BritNats under the guise of supporting Independence with each and every one of them using a different type of persona / propaganda technique from ”SNP Baad” to I’m ”Jack the jolly lad” (or lassie).

    I no longer recommend this site to anyone at all due to being totally embarrassed with the extremely negative feedback I received from those I encouraged to visit the site previously. Sad when you think of the hard work being put in here by Stu Campbell, people like Nana and a diminishing number of individuals who are doing their utmost to get the truth out there.

    We’ve reached a profoundly critical juncture in our history in relation to attaining our Independence. These people are doing us no favours: In fact are totally undermining our cause at every turn. As we work our butts off, here and elsewhere, to convert just one person at a time, they are using this site to turn God only knows how many people right off. Time for individuals, if genuine Independence supporters, to clean up their act. As for the rest a mass clear-out wouldn’t go wrong.

  190. jfngw says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill

    They took no formal position but the letter that indicated the former UK would effectively be successor state and any country leaving ceding would need to reapply was used widely by the No camp. If they had wanted to remain neutral they could have replied that they had no comment at this stage.

    There was no need for them to use this approach as ending the Treaty of Union (that would have been the result of independence) would have effectively ended the UK as the entity that joined. Logically this statement should also have been relevant to the rest of the UK.

    They always seem to prefer the status quo.

    And also as the EU has the UK by the cojones (as Ms Davidson would say) then they are in a position to extract almost anything from Westminster on the fishing grounds. Some countries may see no advantage to an independent Scotland, in fact they may consider that Holyrood will take a tougher stand on this than Westminster.

    My post may look somewhat negative but in international relations we need to be realistic and watch out for being sold out, only we can truly look after our interests. It has always been the case.

  191. jfngw says:

    Interesting tweet from the Rev, seems DR are claiming their readership figures are a lie, nowhere near as claimed. Seems a weak argument to me.

    They seem to forget the Dugdale/Wings story has been widespread on social media also, this is the result of their article. It’s all cumulative, they can’t get out of this that easily, in my opinion anyway. It was their butterfly effect that set off the storm.

  192. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Breeks says:

    “Do not look to Europe to do for us that which we won’t even do for ourselves. The onus is 100% on Scotland to change the recognised status of our government so that Scotland the Nation has Legal Personality, and can negotiate internationally.

    Everything the EU has provisionally offered Scotland, such as transitional holding pen status, is predicated by Scotland asserting its constitutional sovereignty. SCOTLAND MUST MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. Until we do, until we provide the EU with a sovereign interface, Europe’s hands are tied. It is our inaction which ties them.”

    I agree with you.

    The EU would like to be able to say and do a lot more, esp. having learned a lot more over the last three years about the true situation regarding Scotlands constitutional relevance.

    But, no independence or at least one in the offing then it’s still the UK is the Member…. etc. etc.

    I’m a bit wary or apprehensive about a referendum because WM will do everything, legal or illegal, to win it. There are way too many possibilities to cheat and steal the result. So it can’t be a “Charge of the Light Brigade” thing.

    We should, IMO also be making more use of the sovereignty which we still possess to try and induce a parallel line of attack. There are many ways to skin a cat so we should at least be trying other alternatives at the same time. The courts, ECJ. etc.

    Nicola hasn’t divulged much if anything about what’s going on in secret talks/background negotiations with the EU. At least not to me..!

  193. Capella says:

    Comment – please read this page for comment rules.

    2. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).

    And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally. And that includes calling them “trolls” or implying they’re undercover Unionists. We’ll decide if someone’s trolling or not. But in the meantime, if you think they are, ignore them.

    If you know what a “troll” is, then you’ll also know that getting you angry and talking about them, derailing the conversation off the subject, is exactly what they want.

    Email us about suspected trolls if you want. But don’t engage them in debate if you doubt their motives, and DEFINITELY don’t engage in on-thread discussions about whether they’re a troll or not.

  194. Hamish100 says:

    mac says:
    30 December, 2018 at 1:34 pm
    Hamish 100
    Cactus is not my buddy,,,but he is also not my enemy.
    If you have issues with certain contributors then I would suggest you take it up with the site owner,,,,and not take up valuable space by posting your complaints on the open forum,,,where we have absolutely NO power to do anything about him.

    MAC — valuable space is used up by you know who- post after post of nauseum. Even asking for someone to xxxxx with him. Sorry, not appropriate in my book. As for posting open discussion is good. Preferable pro independence which I usually try and discuss with others or maybe disagree with more. In all honesty as with other posters above do we really want folk to continually scroll by to the point of not participating on WoSc? This site is too important.
    It would be a great pity for a proportion of existing readers and potential ones are turned off as a result. Just my view.

  195. Fireproofjim says:

    This is a pro-independence site.
    Cactus’s drunken ramblings contribute nothing to our cause, are not serious, amusing or witty and can only turn off visitors to Wings.
    43 posts last night! What a lot of self indulgent rubbish. He may support independence but a little self restraint would would not go amiss.
    Wings is our most valuable independence supporting site and is a jewel in the dross of the main stream media. Cactus’s boring nonsense is devaluing Wings.

  196. mac says:

    Wings has always had a wide range of characters, including Cactus.

    So back off and let anyone who wants to post on here go right ahead.

    The alternative is for people who want to live in an Indy echo chamber to open up their own website and call it “No other opinions will be accepted except mine,OK”.

    Problem solved,,,and you could also have the pleasure of blocking characters like Cactus.

  197. Heart of Galloway says:

    Petra@4.02. I could not agree more, although Cactus and his night wanderings through Glasgow with his spirit guide is the least of the issues.
    This site is beyond compare as a resource for the independence movement.
    The quality of the Rev’s articles, the informative links and cogent btl comments boost morale and sharpen arguments for winning over erstwhile no voters.
    Everything hinges on succeeding in the latter task, which most of us on here doubtless have been trying to do.
    There are many folk against us in 2014 now open to being persuaded to switch to yes.
    They may visit this site because the answers they seek will never be found through the MSM.
    So what they read should help, not hinder them on their journey of discovery.
    Therefore, I agree with the comments above there are *ahem* contributors on here who should never get near Wings.
    The fakers and those taking juvenile delight in exposing them are equally as bad.
    Time to restore Wings the gold standard of demolishing unionist lies and distortion.

  198. yesindyref2 says:

    Jings, I just had the misfortune of reading – during the day when posts are usually more interesting – 50 or more postings talking about postings. There were about 6 actual postings.

    After say 9pm the utility decreases until about 7 am. That’s quite normal, frankly, for a lot of forums. There’s just a few of us talk abot UKSC cases or whatever during the early night watch.

    But today peak time reading has all been about – off-peak posts.

    And mine too is a +1 waste of space posting.

  199. K1 says:

    I see aw the moderators showed up the day. Good boys and girls, perfect little prefects.

    Sigh…It’s not any of your ‘job’s’ to decide who can and can’t post and what they can and can’t post on a Wings article, plenty of comments go off topic repeatedly.

    But thanks for sharing the same old ‘repetitive’ pish that you all do…time and time again…but we aw huv to put up wi that too. So in the immortal wurdz of the BBC….Wings must be getting it just right in the balance of those who don’t give a fuck what others think and those who insist that those that don’t give a fuck ‘should’ give a fuck what others think.

    Have a lovely Hogmanay folks. Peace and Love to aw the Wingers and aw the Lurkers…and if you are ‘put off’ Scotland’s ‘right to self determination’ by a few fuck’s and other ‘adult’ exchanges…may I gently suggest you were never ‘for it’.


  200. jfngw says:

    Oh I see historywoman wants foreign independence supporters to be refused settled status in Scotland (whole UK probably). Presumably this is because we need some lebensraum for the true Brits supporters. If we vote for independence I wonder if they will call on the UK government to save them, a kind of Scotdetanland to them.

  201. yesindyref2 says:

    Maybe the answer is to have “opening hours”, and for @Rev to have a one-liner at the top:

    “Between 7am and 9pm please keep your postings useful. After that, knock yourselves out!”

    That means readers know what to expect – and posters.

  202. jfngw says:

    Just to add, not sure if her books are now a chronicle of Nazism or a eulogy. After all who can forget her racist retweet!

  203. robertknight says:

    Is Brit-Nat Yoonatic, mad as a box of frogs, hysteri-wimmin still on the go?

    I thought she was dead!!!

  204. jfngw says:


    Are you suggesting an Archon Festival period for those that are not of the body?

  205. Famous15 says:

    A compilation of the thoughts of Cactus would deserve a nomination for a Nobel prize for literature.

    The major flaw of Unionism is the fact that it drives people to drink.

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyways, this is quite a disturbing article in The National, from one of our own:

    By Christian Allard

    I hope he does make the effort to do the iniquitous barbaric xenophonic Home Office settlement application thing, we need people like him, whether Independent or shackled at the knees in the UK.

    Some of our best people are of French origin, Beligan, Polish, Dutch, German, Italian, or … or English like Mike Russell, one of Scotland’s main Champions, joint National politician of the year with Keith Brown (who I think is Scots born).

  207. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Adding my ha’penny’s worth to the ongoing debate about the quality of postings, I have always tried (though sometimes failed) to make my postings commensurate with the high quality of Stu’s articles, since it seems to me their goal is the same, namely to reinforce the knowledge and morale of supporters and – even more importantly – to win over the uncommitted neutral visitor to this important cause.

    So to me Petra’s observation about visitors being turned off by what they encounter btl has great force. There is a significant – and growing, it would seem – degree of irrelevant and off-putting self- indulgence, hate-mongering and negativity from a small group of the usual suspects, who either through misplaced enthusiasm or darker motives, are choking up every thread now. “Scroll by” is fine advice for the occasional bit of drivel or ripe language, but you just can’t expect the casual visitor to do that a lot and come back. To all our loss.

    I can only appeal to all the off-topic zoomers – and you kntow who you are – to restrict your effusions to off-topic where they properly belong. We really need this site to be able to reach out effectively to the uncommitted.

    This site is important, and deserves to be treated with due resoect.

  208. galamcennalath says:

    robertknight says:

    Is Brit-Nat Yoonatic, mad as a box of frogs, hysteri-wimmin still on the go?

    What will these BritNats do after Indy? We must assume since they are so fanatically keen on London rule they will move somewhere still ruled by London! The paradox is of course, England doesn’t seem well dispose towards ‘refugees’ these days! They might actually find iScotland has its attractions after all.

  209. geeo says:

    Just reading about how singer, Ariana Grande, was offered a Damehood due to her compassion towards the young victims of the Manchester Bombing at her concert.

    She refused it, quoting that it just did not feel right when people, including herself, are still grieving and struggling to come to terms with what happened.

    Sky then offered “9 people who said No” to honours

    Howard Gale (Liverpools first black player) summed it up to perfection as below…

    He was nominated for his work with Show Racism A Red Card, but turned it down because “my ancestors would be turning in their graves after how empire and colonialism had enslaved them”.


    ‘Nuff said.

  210. yesindyref2 says:

    It IS the festive season you know, and some people like a couple of drinks, or a couple of dozen. Even during the year, 9pm is a bit of a watershed [1] for some people.

    [1] Alcohol is quite diuretic …

    Merry Humbug!

  211. mac says:

    The right of free speech will not be tolerated on Wings Over Scotland…

    By order of the Heavies,,,OK ya bass !!!

    Lighten up chaps and chapesses.

  212. Republicofscotland says:

    Labour are just as much our enemy as the Tories or Lib/Dems. They’ll prevaricate at every turn in an attempt to do down the SNP government, is it any wonder then that Labour in Scotland is seen as a uncredible party by the electorate.

  213. mac says:

    Being a fellow Glaswegian I can relate to the many streets Cactus walks down,,,so maybe I am a bit biased.

  214. jfngw says:


    It’s not the fact that Labour wants to down the SNP, they are a political party that’s really what I expect them to do. My problem with Labour along with the other two is that there only policy is ‘Keep Scotland British’ there is nothing else.

    They have no vision for Scotland beyond this, they would accept any hardship to retain this. I could never vote for any party that’s reason for existence is to keep my country governed by another.

  215. Hamish100 says:

    K1 says:
    30 December, 2018 at 5:48 pm
    I see aw the moderators showed up the day. Good boys and girls, perfect little prefects.
    Sigh…It’s not any of your ‘job’s’ to decide who can and can’t post and what they can and can’t post on a Wings article, plenty of comments go off topic repeatedly.
    But thanks for sharing the same old ‘repetitive’ pish that you all do…time and time again…but we aw huv to put up wi that too. So in the immortal wurdz of the BBC….Wings must be getting it just right in the balance of those who don’t give a fuck what others think and those who insist that those that don’t give a fuck ‘should’ give a fuck what others think.
    Have a lovely Hogmanay folks. Peace and Love to aw the Wingers and aw the Lurkers…and if you are ‘put off’ Scotland’s ‘right to self determination’ by a few fuck’s and other ‘adult’ exchanges…may I gently suggest you were never ‘for it’.

    Upset some folk because we can write some words without using the f word. Blame a guid Scots education for that and some teachers who said if you can’t speak without effen and blinding best keep your mooth shut! As for adult exchanges I am aware that this can be read by young folk who want to be persuaded to vote YES at the next independence vote. I’m up for independence having attended my first SNP meeting over 40 years ago. Don’t wish our chance lost by some folk who judge adulthood by how often they can curse. I sure many past that stage around 3rd year in Secondary school.

    So no hard feelings can we leave OT to OT and get back to debating Independence and how to avoid Brexit, reduce poverty, improve the NHS, remove nuclear weapons, defeating the unionist parties. You get my drift. Have a guid Hogmanay!

  216. schrodingers cat says:

    Im glad people here realise that when it comes to the eu making public announcements about an indy scotland, its hands are tied. even the few eu meps etc who do voice support dont get any mention in the msm.

    those that voice even the most minor objection to an indy scotland joining the eu are given wall to wall front page coverage. (see barrossa in indyref1)

    it is a shit state of affaires, no question, but this is the terrain upon which we will fight for independence.

    if we had a fair msm, support for indy would be in the 70+% by now.

  217. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s one of the reasons even getting near to the end of Indy Ref1 I was still posting like “YES 75%, NO 25%. Once the journalists and politicians see we’re past the turning point, they’ll be onboard like ferrets up a trouser leg “I always really supported Indy, just needed convincing it would work, but now I’m convinced”. In my opinion there were a few on the cusp, and some backing it both ways.

    Well, welcome to YES !!!

  218. Tinto Chiel says:

    What K1 said at 5.48.

    Some of those contributors who wish to do Stu’s job for him on the censoring front seem unaware that their own comments could be seen as repetitive, sententious pap and often irrelevant to the content of The Rev’s article, but others don’t ask for them to be silenced.

    This is the silly season as well as the festive one and we’re not exactly in the throes of an independence campaign, so surely a bit of tolerance should be exercised for some seasonal exuberance.

    It’s up to our host to decide who gets on here.

  219. K1 says:


    Your’e not the effin moderator

    Nor the moderator’s son

    If there’s any effin moderating

    The Rev will get it done


    Have a guid yin.

  220. Hector says:

    Breeks – thank you for your recent posts which have been interesting and relevant and the most stimulating of discussion over the past few weeks. I have been interested in Mark McNaught’s contribution to the debate about the Constitution for Scotland and the support for this publicised by Indycar Gordon Ross. However, there is an interface I think between your position of asserting sovereignty through legal avenues and the sovereignty of the Scots or People of Scotland. Surely, they are one and the same. However, I am interested in a precise definition of “sovereign Scot” in relation to people born, living, working (paying taxes) in Scotland and their right to determine the future of the country. Is this a political issue or a constitutional issue? Bit of a clumsy question, I know. But trying to think my way through what we mean by Scottish sovereignty and how this relates to our next referendum question, which, for me is, Who Governs Scotland? Westminster or Holyrood and who determines this….who are the sovereign Scots?

  221. fillofficer says:

    a cactus is a prickly plant
    does wot is says on the tin
    wings patrolling nightwatchman
    keep on, man

  222. yesindyref2 says:

    If there was to be an appointed “in-thread moderator council of four”, I’d probably go for Capella, Tinto Chiel, Thepnr and K1″.

    And then I’d tell them all to eff off 🙂 😎

  223. Daisy Walker says:

    One of the reasons btl is not as informative as it was 1 or 2 years ago, is that the establishment has learnt its lesson.

    There is now a drowt, where before we had a Murphy, a Better Together, a Dugdale…. now there is …. nothing – nothing to ridicule, nothing to hit back at, nothing to get our teeth into.

    This is deliberate. Don’t look at the bozos ‘in charge’ at Westminster, behind them, there are some very capable people pulling the strings, and they have the wealth of the colonies to defend and the cash cow of Scotland to keep.

    And the second reason there is a drowt of information below the line, is that every positive piece of info we could divulge about Indy for Scotia, and much of the dishonest and downright bad stuff done to us – has already been said, many, many times, and ways, often very eloquently.

    And there is Brexshit, brexshit and bad, grinding on and on, and now becoming genuinely threatening and bad.

    And we are running out of time.

    Peace and love to all.

  224. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 7.07
    I’ll say wan thing fur ye…
    Yer ambitious…. Where would ye like the pieces put?

  225. hackalumpoff says:

    Interesting quote from Kofi Annan the late Secretary-General of the United Nations.

    “My generation of Africans has learned the hard way that no state can truly be called democratic if it offers its people no escape from poverty, and that no country can truly develop so long as its people are excluded from power.”

  226. K1 says:

    As for this bit Hamish:

    ‘Don’t wish our chance lost by some folk who judge adulthood by how often they can curse’

    Spare me the holier than thou pish take on what ‘you’ think is going to lose us ‘our chance’ at gaining our independence.

    It literally beggars belief that someone with any kind of guid Scottish education can think in such patently stupid terms. This is actually a sentence ‘you’ wrote on an open forum.

    It is you who are judging others because they can use swear words and judging them ill educated too because of this? I have literally posted many links pointing out, and anyone with a smidgeon of intelligence is aware of the ‘fact’, that swearing is ‘not a sign of ill education, nor of any kind of signifier of a ‘lesser human being’

    But you reveal with such comments, your own ignorance and intolerance and dare I say inability to get over how you were ‘instructed’ to think about such matters when you repeatedly post the same tired rhetoric wrt to others who ‘you’ are judging in such low terms.

    It is as if you don’t want others to be free to express themselves according their own nature and that makes you an oppressor, someone who believes ‘intrinsically’ that they hold a higher ground because they don’t use the word fuck occasionally or any other ‘curse’ word.

    Please do try to work through some of your own issues in this regard, so that I am not brought down to your level in having to explain to you the abject failure of your own intellect in assessing others on such flawed and superficial criterion.

    It’s tiresome for me to have to lower myself to correct your misguided, ignorant immature brainwashed level of engagement on here. But…it is the season to be jolly…so I don’t mind playing with you for a moment or so before I get back to more high brow fucking engagement wi those that can appreciate a good fuck…or two.


  227. Tinto Chiel says:

    @yesindyref2 7.07: just so 😉

    Your jokes are still crap, btw.


  228. yesindyref2 says:

    @Liz g
    I might need to duck and run for cover 🙂

  229. Hamish100 says:

    k1 – nice mountain.

    I see you are a bit like rock , copy paste. Still keeps you occupied.

    I am now an oppressor? Gies us a break will you? Reading to many pamphlets from the 1960’s?

    Happy for you to debate but you obviously cannot without cursing. As for intellect, please go and seek some!!

    Still, thanks for proving my point. lol

    Power to the masses!

  230. mac says:

    Watching one of those World at War documentaries today and didn’t realise that in the Far East the Japanese were actually offering Independence to all of the English Colonies out there with their own hand picked administrators if they agreed to end English Rule.

    That is why the English fought so hard to hang onto them,,,they knew Independence was coming to every one of them.

    And that is why shortly after the end of WW2 so many Colonies gained there Independence.

    And I detest the Butchers Apron so much that I actually enjoyed seeing it being lowered for the last tine in so many lucky countries.

    Let’s hope Scotland is an ex Colony in the not too distant future.

  231. jfngw says:

    I see it’s frivolous post night, so here is my Shania Twain tribute

    Let’s go!

    Don’t wantcha for the weekend, don’t wantcha for a night
    We’re only interested if you want to be Scottish for life, aye
    Uh, I know we sound serious; and really, we are
    We’re a fine piece of real estate, and we’re gonna get us our land
    Och, aye

    So, don’t try to run, buddy; indy can be fun
    There’s no need to be alone when you find your Scottish

    We’re gonna getcha while we’ve gotcha in sight
    We’re gonna getcha if it takes all night
    You can betcha by the time we say “go, ” you’ll never say “no”
    We’re gonna getcha; it’s a matter of fact
    We’re gonna getcha, don’tcha worry ’bout that
    You can bet your bottom dollar, in time we’re gonna be fine
    Just like we should – We’ll getcha good

  232. Valerie says:

    @ K1

    Jist you fucking post any way you bloody want! I know you will!

    Meantime, anyone not sick to death of this fucking govt, look at this latest manifestation of their uber stupidity. They awarded these 3 Ferry contracts, without tendering, which is pretty underhanded (they cite it requires emergency action due to unforeseen circumstances)

    Now turns out one of the companies has no ferries, and dredging of Ramsgate harbour doesn’t begin until January.

    Taking the piss on a daily basis.

  233. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    “I can only appeal to all the off-topic zoomers – and you kntow who you are – to restrict your effusions to off-topic where they properly belong.”

    Just listen to yourself!

    There are many that post on Off Topic who are well respected on Wings, in fact very well respected I would say and have posted on Wings for many years and supported same.

    I know you have even been there yourself on occasion so know who I’m talking of.

    This is getting out of hand to be honest, the complaints about “disruption” are more off putting than three line throwaway comments made in the wee sma hours. You lot moaning loudest really need to get over yourselves.

    Just what have any of you posted today that might be relevant eh? Ask yourselves that, do you think new visitors to Wings want to read your moans? Just ignore posts and posters you don’t like, I’m certainly not interested in any sanctimonious opinion as to what is and isn’t acceptable on Wings. There are many views on here and from many different backgrounds and long may that be the case.

    Got a complaint then take it up directly with the Rev rather than sound off and contaminate the thread with your own irrelevant posts that have nothing to do with Independence and that you so like to complain of others doing.

    Don’t moan about others making irrelevant posts when all you’ve done all day is make irrelevant posts complaining of other making irrelevant posts.

  234. Terence callachan says:

    The pnr…..well said

    All opinions here welcome
    Even those we disagree with
    Those on here who try to shut down opinion by castigating those they do not agree with are offensive
    Free speech does not include foul language insults threats or abuse

  235. yesindyref2 says:

    @Tinto Chiel
    Deliberately so, of course, they’re the best sort 🙃

  236. Terence callachan says:

    Swearing and insulting behaviour is often because of poor education but not always.
    It’s certainly not something to encourage.
    But that aside, think of those who have to read it, if you can’t use acceptable language and feel as if swearing and insults are easier just take an extra minute or two to rephrase, you will get more attention more people will be drawn to your point.

  237. Inverclyder says:

    Looks like Blocker McCabe the British Labour in Scotland Council “Leader” in Inverclyde and dyed in the wool Blairite, heid bummer of the local keep it quiet there’s a Tory coalition but don’t say anything about it as we’re all Socialists really, has raised his head up from the trough long enough to get a dig in about cuts in the Council budgets.

    In the English owned local paper, The Greenock Telegraph, “Councillor McCabe says Inverclyde’s cash settlement is £4.24m less year-on-year – a fall of 2.6 per cent.”

    Still I hope we get that Half a Million Pound statue for a fucking roundabout. No doubt Blocker McCabe will blame the SNP for the 7 year delay in the statue!

    Expect the same from other angry, inept and petty British Labour local politicians across Scotland as they start the new year with the same optimism and sunny disposition that you’d only find at a funeral.

    For the Money, forget the few or something!

  238. Tinto Chiel says:

    @yesindyref2: indeed. Still marvelling at your upside down smiley.


    Only joking about your joking anyhoos.

  239. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. sovereignty. Times are changing fast and isolationist states will struggle in an increasingly interconnected world.

    Globalization and the future of the law of the sovereign state

    Globalization is transforming the contemporary international system. Two major developments have arisen at the expense of the law of the sovereign state. First, specialized regimes of public international law have proliferated into areas previously monopolized by the state, such as human rights, environmental law, and trade law. Second, rules enacted by intergovernmental organizations and transnational corporations have become increasingly prominent. Inevitably,
    intertwined with these developments is the undermining of the Westphalian constitutional concepts of state sovereignty.

    Combining the approaches of international political economy
    and sociolegal theory, this paper contributes to the jurisprudential debate by arguing that globalization is far from the simple negation of sovereignty and state law. Global processes have transformed state law in remarkable ways. At the same time, state law is highly adaptive and plays a significant role in recasting transnational developments. More importantly, the current distinction between global and state law is increasingly blurred in practice. The outcome of these interactions demands a rethinking of what “law” is.

    Legal Personality as a Fundamental Concept of International Law

    National Identity, Constitutional Identity, and Sovereignty in the EU

  240. Breeks says:

    Hector says:
    30 December, 2018 at 7:03 pm
    Breeks – thank you for your recent posts which have been interesting and relevant and the most stimulating of discussion over the past few weeks. I have been interested in Mark McNaught’s contribution to the debate about the Constitution for Scotland and the support for this publicised by Indycar Gordon Ross….

    Hector, that’s a helluva question, because when it comes to Scotland’s Sovereignty and Constitution, I really think we are still taking baby steps.

    By way of example, if each and every Scot is born a sovereign citizen, then does that mean a Scot is entitled to vote from birth, before the age of 16 or 18? In simple terms, if he is sovereign, then yes. But how does that work? If we want a functioning democracy that restricts a vote to adults, then suddenly, we have two kinds of Sovereignty, – a lesser Sovereignty for minors. It would seem we need a constitution which is more sophisticated than simply everybody being sovereign, but which is compatible with everybody being sovereign. That might get messy.

    It is really a most extraordinary Sovereignty that Scotland enjoys, but it seems to me it is a unique concept which currently has to constrain itself just to be compatible with more conventional methods and instruments of government. In purest form, our sovereignty as a concept is almost and ethereal thing which cannot be done… and beware, there are dangers in that if a legal claim is unenforceable! So let’s change direction quickly…cough! Cough!

    Clearly, it just isn’t practical to have 5 million people making each and every decision, so much more than any “conventional” Parliament, Scotland really does need to pioneer a new constitutional blueprint for how we actually interpret our sovereignty and make it function.

    This isn’t a simple issue to resolve. There are some big and awkward philosophical arguments to be had.

    However, 89 days left, so to cut to the chase, and cutting a lot of corners which Robert Peffers will pick me up on, the Scottish Lords who committed Scotland to the Union were not sovereign, but drew their legitimacy from what was called the Franchise…which for want of a better description was the Scottish Parliament of its day. They were the perceived government of Scotland… a constitutional fudge borne out of operational expediency.

    However, the Franchise, despite being Scottish, suffered from the same problem which blights Westminster today… they might occupy the office of government, claim and infer they can speak for Scotland, but without a formal ballot or referendum of the people, they technically don’t. The will of the 1707 Franchise, or the current Westminster Parliament can cite convention and established recognition to legitimise their authority to represent Scotland, but critically, that representation is NOT at a sovereign level. It might be our recognised government, but it is not our sovereign government. The distinction is very important.

    So how do we truncate this Constitutional “chaos theory” before it turns to madness and cripples our emancipation rather than liberates us?

    Well, I think the short answer is not to dwell upon what Scotland’s Sovereignty can do for us, but instead, focus hard upon what Scotland’s Sovereignty prevents others from doing to us.

    I think initially, we must look upon our Sovereignty as a failsafe, which prevents another Nation “ruling” us, say for example dragging us out of Europe against our will. But within that cocoon of baseline sovereignty, in time we must come together as a Scottish Nation and pioneer a new mechanism of government which is more true to our popular sovereignty and less of a hybrid-of-convenience, with a mechanism designed to suit a government like Westminster that is essentially Constitutionally sovereign rather the people.

    With modern technology and blockchain voting, it’s possible Scotland’s popular sovereignty really can put democracy into effect in ways that simply haven’t been possible before. We might yet see a referendum on something every other day of the week. Why not? – if we design a system and doctrine to allow it…. But that’s a matter for us to debate and speculate upon at our leisure. Not now.

    The first order of business as I see it is to lodge a submission with the ECJ which doesn’t set out to define what Scottish Sovereignty is, but is acutely specific in taking the wheels off Westminster’s claim of Parliamentary Sovereignty, and disputing their capacity to remove Scotland from Europe against the will of the sovereign majority. We stop Brexit happening to Scotland. That’ll do fine for starters….

    (Just as another tangential Constitutional conundrum to wrestle with, if we are all sovereign, then how can we be truly sovereign if we happen to find ourselves overruled in a democratic minority?? How can we be both sovereign AND overruled?? This could get complicated….lol).

  241. Uber Brutish Nationalist and Unionist David Clegg political scribbler and hack of the Daily Record,

    said the DR would pay for Dugdale`s legal fees,

    would paying for her legal fees include paying damages if found guilty,

    or would the damages be paid for by Dugdale.

  242. mac says:

    K1 7.27pm ,,,,,quote of the day so far:-

    “…wi those that can appreciate a good fuck…or two.”


  243. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re-uniting Scots with their popular sovereignty is essential if Scots are to upgrade their British human rights to universal human rights. British human rights are ambiguous, universal human rights much less so.

    Sovereignty as a Problematic Conceptual Core

    Summary and Keywords

    The concept of sovereignty has been the subject of vigorous debate among scholars. Sovereignty presents the discipline of international law with a host of theoretical and material problems regarding what it, as a concept, signifies; how it relates to the power of the state; questions about its origins; and whether sovereignty is declining, being strengthened, or being reconfigured. The troublesome aspects of sovereignty can be analyzed in relation to constructivist, feminist, critical theory, and postmodern approaches to the concept. The most problematic aspects of sovereignty have to do with its relationship to the rise and power of the modern state, and how to link the state’s material reality to philosophical discussions about the concept of sovereignty.

    The paradoxical quandary located at the heart of sovereignty arises from the question of what establishes law as constitutive of sovereign authority absent the presumption or exercise of sovereign power. Philosophical debates over sovereignty have attempted to account for the evolving structures of the state while also attempting to legitimate these emergent forms of rule as represented in the writings of Hugo Grotius, Samuel von Pufendorf, Jean Bodin, Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. These writers document attempts to grapple with the problem of legitimacy and the so-called “structural and ideological contradictions of the modern state.” International law finds itself grappling with ever more nuanced and contradictory views of sovereignty’s continued conceptual relevance, which are partially reflective and partially constitutive of an ever more complex and paradoxical world.

    Keywords: sovereignty, international law, state, constructivism, feminism, critical theory, postmodernism, sovereign authority, sovereign power, legitimacy

    The Changing Character of Sovereignty in International Law and International Relations

    Sovereignty and Natural Law in the Legal Discourse of the
    Ancien Régime

  244. wull says:

    I agree with you, yesindyref2, at 6.19, concerning the disturbing news about the way the Home Office is hounding Christian Allard and his family, and how we have to encourage and support him. I agree, too, that it’s good to emphasise all the great support given by so many Europeans and English-for-Yes people living in Scotland. They are indeed very important to the cause, and very much appreciated. I offer you one small correction to what you said, however: please note that Mike Russell is NOT, in fact, an Englishman.

    This is an often-repeated mistake which, I think, needs to be corrected. The origin of it is an accident of birth.

    He was English-born, yes, because his parents were living down there at the time. As far as I know, his father came from Ayrshire (maybe Auchentiber, or Knockentibber – or round about there (Kilmarnock / Kilwinning direction?), as did his Russell forebears. I don’t really know where his mother came from, and it is quite possible that she was English.

    So – if she was – maybe you could say that Mike Russell is half-English, but that doesn’t make him ‘English’ as such. He would still be Scottish because he was raised in Scotland, and his father was Scottish. Born in England but brought up here in Scotland (from a very early age) and, as far as I know, always identifying himself as a Scot, he simply is a Scot – that’s all, through and through. He has never actually been anything else.

    Even if he was born in England, he never lived there long enough to identify with it.

    I once heard him say something about his background one time (during a 2014 event) and my recollection of it is something like this. The family, if i remember rightly, moved back to Scotland when he was still a wean, and he was brought up and educated here. They may have settled in Troon or thereabouts – certainly somewhere in Ayrshire. I think his father was teacher, and ended as a headmaster – not sure where, but maybe in Irvine or thereabouts.

    Upbringing matters a lot. It’s not where we are born that really marks us but where we grow up, and the first identity that we learn or adopt, when we are still kids.

    You only need to listen to Mike Russell for five seconds to know that he is a Scot. Not only because of his accent (which is clearly West of Scotland) but also by the very way he thinks and expresses himself. Being Scottish in that most obvious sense of the term has been called ‘an accent of the mind’. As with other kinds of ‘accent’, that accent’s not really a decision – it’s just something you grow up with which very naturally becomes an inherent part of.

    Mike Russell really couldn’t be anything else. If you are sensitive to these things, you just know that he’s from Scotland when you hear him speak or meet him or have a chat with him or whatever. You know this is where he comes from – Scotland (and, if you’re a bit aware of these things, you can usually guess which part of Scotland as well).

    And you know that he’s not someone who originally comes from somewhere else, and chose to become a Scot – a ‘new Scot’ or an ‘incomer Scot’ or a ‘latecomer Scot’ or however you want to describe it – all of whom are absolutely welcome and many of whom have chosen to identify very radically with Scotland. When you meet people with that kind of background and history, you accept and welcome them just as you accept and welcome their self-identification as Scots. Not only is it ‘no problem’, it’s actually very encouraging and gratifying. But you also know, even without thinking about it, that they originally come from elsewhere – and, normally, they don’t deny that either. (It’s such a plain, obvious and unavoidable fact, and since there is nothing in the least bit wrong with it … so why would anyone bother denying it anyway?)

    When you describe Mike Russell as ‘English’ you are giving the impression his background and upbringing were originally English, that he was first of all an Englishman whose original country was England, and that he later chose to become a Scot and now identifies himself as such. I have every respect for people who do that, and am always happy to welcome them aboard the ‘Yes’ ship, as I hope all of us are. That’s the story of some people, for sure – and a good story it is – but it is not Mike Russell’s story.

    The point of this comment is just to make a wee correction to what indyref2 said about Mike Russell, that’s all. Just for the sake of accuracy … And if I have this (or anything else) wrong everyone is welcome to correct me too – obviously!

  245. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 8.50
    I would have said that to Invest our Sovereignty in the Scottish Constitution would be the most simple/ elegant and more to the point the most widely understood method.
    A Constitution which frames our government and…
    A Constitution which of course would contain within it the mechanism for future generations,when they attain voting age,and new Scots when they gain their vote,to have their own input to how we are governed going forward!

    As to modern technology…. I would propose that each MSP has a Constituency App and is obliged to vote at the direction of their Constituency…. with the MSP having the casting vote only.Whither the Parties themselves would go for this or stymie it is another matter.
    But this way each voter has (if they care enough to) their voice heard and democracy wins!

  246. yesindyref2 says:

    @Terence callachan
    Put your spurtle away. It’s less effective at trying to exploit a perceived division as a half-inch fine thread sewing needle made of balsa wood would be.

    I know 😃

  247. K1 says:

    You have no sense of humour either Hamish…who knew?


    As for you TCal…pontificating on ‘acceptable language’…from the guy who is an outright ‘xenophobic anti English people having a vote in Scotland’s constitutional set up’ is a bit rich.

    The sheer brass neck of you commenting on anyone’s ‘use of language’ and suggesting that ‘swearing’ is the bar from posters being ‘drawn to your point’…is sheer irony explosion head melting scrud.

    Who decides what is ‘acceptable language on here’?

    Not you.

  248. K1 says:

    Ye canny define ‘free speech’ by banning ‘words’ that don’t fit ‘your’ description of ‘free speech.

    Is it ‘thickets of the thick night’ on here tonight?

  249. orri says:

    If the people of Scotland are sovereign and our monarch embodies that then it follows that whilst this is the Land of the Scots then you don’t have to be born here but can belong either by ancestry or adoption by us. If your claim is by ancestry don’t expect a vote of you don’t live here though.

    Part of the right to self determination must be that of deciding for yourselves whether you can include others in your nation.

  250. Undeadshuan says:

    Looked up seaborne freight who got contract for ferries in event of no deal brexit with no at companies house.

    They are over £400000 in debt and were only incorporated in April 2017.

    They declined to provide details of their income.

    I wonder where the rabbit hole ends on who they are in debt to?

    Maybe a member of the tory ERG?

  251. Liz g says:

    K1 @ 9.24
    I’d rather have a Mountain than a Crock…
    And don’t concern yerself wi the splitter,every one knows he’s a fucking arse, the voting franchise has pretty much been decided,he’s wasting no one’s time but his own!
    Somebody usually throws the odd correction at him,but as I’m sure ye know that’s just the keep the site right!!
    Keep on keeping on K1

  252. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Can’t help laughing a wee bit at all this bickering.

    Just proves that WOS is a family of sorts – this is the time of year for all that shite right enough.

    Vent yer spleens – it’s better oot than in!


  253. K1 says:

    Exactly Ian!

    Had a thoroughly enjoyable day on here wi the back and forth…sharpen yer weapons lads and lassies, may as well practice wi each other afore the battle of our lives, and it’s coming fir aw that.

    *waves* Valerie and Lizg, have a good yin 😉

  254. K1 says:

    Cheers Mac, glad someone has a sense of humour 🙂

  255. Cubby says:

    Terence Callachan

    Pompous – is that a word acceptable to you?

    Prick – is that a word acceptable to you?

  256. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    If memory serves me right then this has been the absolutely tamest bickering over the Xmas holiday period that I can remember witnessing.

    I think 2014 in particular was a hellhole that I wouldn’t wish to ever revisit. We’ve all learned a lot, well maybe not all but I have as I was surely a culprit as much as anyone in the past.

    All that we have in common is our support for Independence, opinions come in all shapes and sizes and Wings should reflect that. It is definitely not a club for one particular shade of Independence over another.

    Neither is it made up only of people who think that on any topic only theirs is the correct view. That goes for every topic under the sun as far as I’m concerned,

    There are many views, so can’t we just accept that although we all seek the same goal, that one man’s meat is another man’s poison?

  257. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks for that, I knew some of it. He’s one of the strangest to emerge in Indy. You’d think he’s an amiable pussycat, but he’s pure tiger, and doesn’t get distracted, he keeps to the point and hammers it home.

  258. Macart says:

    A wee thought on the nature of respect and trust what I writ a day or two ago.

    Seems tae me that what we’re seeing ATL is yer akchul Q.E.D. moment. Idiotic stunts like that are why we can’t take Lab/Con/Lib seriously when they ask for a thing they have no understanding of. A thing that is anathema to the way they practice politics and relate to the public.

    They have no respect for anything. They hold people in contempt. They mislead and undermine trust for a living. It’s literally their job.

    Yet they expect you to change your mind. Give up your perception and understanding of the world in favour of theirs. Hate who they tell you to hate and elect who they tell you to elect.

    They’re hypocrites and worse. A LOT worse.

    They are however, in the minority. For all their power, their access and their influence? Yours is greater. They simply convinced you that you didn’t matter. YOU DO.

    You can have the government, the system of politics and the country you want. You can tell them how to behave and how to serve. Or you you can let them carry on treating you like disposable electoral coinage.

  259. Rock says:

    Cubby says:
    30 December, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    “what side do you think Rock is on ?? He’s not for Scottish independence – of that there is no doubt – he posts a lot of Britnat Rockshit and has done so for a very long time.”

    Rock (16th December – “Independence for England”):

    “When did you start posting here Cubby, dear?”

    Rock (22nd May 2014 – “Book smart, street stupid”):


    I really like the way you expose these liars and hypocrites, without mincing your words, no matter whether they are Professors or lesser idiots.

    It would be excellent for the independence cause if your articles were being published in paper form with a wide distribution to the general public.

    I wonder if someone could interest the Weirs in such a project, given what they have been subjected to in the media.”

    Typical “Britnat crap” right?

  260. Rock says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    30 December, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    “Labour are just as much our enemy as the Tories or Lib/Dems.”

    Rock (28th October 2014 – “And still there were none”)

    “Scotland’s enemy number 2 is the Labour party, enemy number 1 being the BBC.”

    (Typical “Britnat crap” right, Cubby dear?)

  261. Rock says:

    Since Cubby likes my “Britnat crap” so much, I’ll give him/her a special treat:

    Rock (18th May 2014 – “An absence of Respect”):

    “Scotland was sold 300 years ago by the parcel of rogues.

    Now we have got a realistic chance of being free again, democratically, the likes of Galloway are campaigning to keep us sold for ever.

    Where does Galloway get his campaigning money from? Those who give money to buy and sell Scotland?”

    Rock (20th May 2014 – “Stormy weather”):

    “There are many No voters happy to remain in the Union but preferring good governance in Scotland by an SNP government despite having very limited powers.

    I think the SNP should drop a bomb shell in June and say that in the event of a No vote, the SNP will not contest any elections for a generation.

    That will put the fear of god into those complacent no voters or non-voters.”

    Rock (4th June 2014 – “Ifs and maybes”):

    “To find the truth about any Better Together supporting story, take the exact opposite of what is stated as the starting point.

    Without any further investigation, that will be more or less the truth.”

    Were you too young to vote in 2014 Cubby?

  262. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m just glad it’s the Tories who’ve broken Britain, again..

    Sovereignty and Inequality

    Miserable Comforters: International Relations as New Natural Law

    Sovereign God, Sovereign State, Sovereign Self

  263. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie..
    Some really good stuff tonight Cameron… ma pet subject..

  264. Sarah says:

    Recall of MPs Act: does anyone know on what grounds the electorate can raise a successful petition to make their MP stand down? The Wikipedia entry is very slim – makes me wonder if the group that alters Wikipedia entries who Craig Murray warns us about, has been at work to make sure that we don’t know how to recall our MPs.

    For example, would it be sufficient that Boris Johnson, Michael Gove et al fronted a campaign that told a lie e.g. the £350 million/week for NHS?

    It would be very interesting if constituents started this kind of action now and especially en masse. The 10% of the electorate in a constituency isn’t a vast number – Remainers, say, should be able to find that number.

  265. Gary45% says:

    I noticed the post regarding the “ferry contracts” and WM fuc*ing up yet again.
    Sounds like the same scenario with the Trumpmeister.
    The contracts for his doomed wall have not been put out to tender.
    Then again the yanks voted Trumpet and the UK voted their very own version of idiocy.
    2018 could go down as the year the citizens of planet earth woke up.
    Here’s hoping 2019 is utopia, then again god only knows what March will bring.
    If I don’t get a chance tomorrow.
    Happy New Year to all who “dabble”/follow WoS especially the Rev who keeps us sane in a world full of fuc*ing idiots.
    And remember “bickering troops”.

  266. Liz g says:

    Gary 45%
    Happy New Year to you and yours when it comes Gary X

  267. Gary45% says:

    Same to yourself Liz g.

  268. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    jfngw at 4.08

    The EU at no point declared that England alone would be the successor state. They did point out that a part of a country leaving that country would not be the recognised successor state. It is entirely easy to argue that Scotland leaving a union with England is a different thing and that both would be in the same position. I have no doubt that most of Europe would find that entirely acceptable and I expect the EU would allow an independent Scotland achieved constitutionally to stay in while its membership conditions (number of MEPs etc) were sorted out

  269. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    Bits of it are coming back to me Liz. It appears to be a cumulative and accelerating phenomena. 🙂

  270. Valerie says:

    @ Undeadshaun, re the Seaborne Ferry contract.

    I responded to a comment on Twitter, saying I hope someone is digging to find the Tory connection to this ferryless company.

    10mins later, up pops – Alleged link to guy called Bamforth, Tory party donor.

    Pretty predictable.

  271. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s not me being big headed. Phenomena as in phenomenology, the philosophical study of the structures of experience and consciousness. Obvs. 🙂

  272. Legerwood says:

    There is a report in the Herald online that alyn Smith MEP may be chosen as the SNP candidate to stand against Ruth Davidson at the next Holyrood Election

  273. CameronB Brodie says:

    As I was saying. 🙂

    The Phenomenology of Agency


    The phenomenology of agency has, until recently, been rather neglected, overlooked by both philosophers of action and philosophers of consciousness alike. Thankfully, all that has changed, and of late there has been an explosion of interest in what it is like to be an agent. 1 This burgeoning field crosses the traditional boundaries between disciplines: philosophers of psychopathology are speculating about the role that unusual experiences of agency might play in accounting for disorders of thought and action; cognitive scientists are developing models of how the phenomenology of agency is generated; and philosophers of mind are drawing connections between the phenomenology of agency and the nature of introspection, phenomenal character, and agency itself. My aim in this paper is not to provide an exhaustive survey of this recent literature, but to provide a….

    consciousness agency phenomenology of agency free will phenomenology of free will conscious will self

  274. Undeadshaun @ 9.39 and Valerie @11.32

    Perhaps the Tories are only pretending to reserve the ferry space because they know they are going to cancel Brexit and blame it on Nicola.

    They’ve actually requisitioned a company that has no boats, has never operated a ferry to work out of ports that are possibly not geared up for what is required – but dinna fash because the company owner is a Tory party donor and he has a £400,000 debt just now.

    If they have to cancel the reservation, he won’t mind so long as he gets a 1% deposit payment to keep as that will clear his debt and if it’s a 10% deposit well who’ll notice £4 million in the great scheme of things.

    Let’s face it, if Brexit is cancelled won’t they have £39 billion to play with?

  275. Thepnr says:

    I’ve just noticed what appears to be an interesting change in the Scotsman’s treatment of visitors to their website that use an Adblocker.

    For a long time now if you did use one then you couldn’t see the page content and if you were really desperate to see it then would have to switch it off.

    That’s no longer the case it seems and any articles I tried to access today have no restrictions. I probably shouldn’t have bothered though as the articles are pretty worthless in the main, just like the newspaper itself I guess.

    Check this one by old friend Euan McColm where he offers advise to May, Corbyn and Nicola Surgeon. The article itself is crap but the comments btl are a hoot.

    Yoons be mental, I can remember though in 2014 you could actually post there and have some kind of sensible discussion. No longer and the quicker the whole paper disappears the better for all Scotsmen and women I would think. Here’s the full link so as you can check the Adblocker stuff.

    As a by the way, if you don’t use an adblocker I’d recommend that you do. It really will help stop your computer being infested with all kinds of crap and trackers.

  276. Cubby says:


    Rockshit = boring boring Britnatshit.

  277. Thepnr says:

    The reality of living in “Tory Britain” exposed.

    Britain’s largest police force now owns fewer than 200 buildings having sold more than £1 billion in property to fight funding cuts, figures show.

    The Metropolitan Police has “sold the Crown Jewels” and “run out of things to sell” after being stretched to “breaking point”, according to one rank-and-file leader.

    Hundreds of flats and buildings – some owned by the Met since the 19th century – have been bought from the force since 2012, figures released to the Press Association under Freedom of Information laws show.

    The sell-off has left Scotland Yard with just 137 “operational” buildings and 36 “residential” buildings, according to the data.

    No surprise then that crime, especially knife crime is rising in London. Ho ho ho to all you thick as shit Tory voters that live there and have allowed YOUR government free reign to do as they please, so that’s what they’ve done and it’s you the people that will be paying the cost.

    Did you expect Tories to do otherwise? Well damn fool you.

  278. Thepnr says:

    Here’s the link.

  279. Ghillie says:


    That’s EVERYONE!

    The folk in the wings too =)

    And those I don’t agree with too.

    Big big hugs and thanks to Rev Stu!

    Have a wonderful day, night and New Year ahead.

    Peace and Love to you all and to all the World xxx

  280. Liz g says:

    Thepnr @ 12.10
    Haven’t got to the comments yet but …
    My,oh My, all that sage advice to Theresa May to stand up and tell all about Boorish Johnston and Reseus Mogg…
    I hope she takes it.
    Cause what mcCockroach fails to see is the Quid Pro Quo…as in what have they to say about her??

  281. Liz g says:

    Ghillie @ 12.59
    All my best from me and mine to you and yours Ghillie XXX

  282. twathater says:

    Auld highlander 3.50pm

    Read your link in the courier or ( cringer ) I then went to post this comment but you have to log in or join , but it wouldn’t accept my details ( wonder why )

    If this doesn’t highlight the utter and total contempt that westminster and the mod hold Scotland and the Scottish people in you have not been paying attention , you would have to be brain dead or such a craven sycophantic imbecile to accept this threat to your children and grandchildren .

    Better together , lead don’t leave .Scotland we love you . THIS EXEMPLIFIES THE CONTEMPT THEY HOLD FOR SCOTLAND AND SCOTS wake up Scotland

  283. Thepnr says:

    OK I’ve resisted but this has to be shown. Back in 2014 even after we lost there were guys like Cactus and many others of course still fighting for Independence.

    This livestream video from October 2014 of the Labour party in Scotland Gala dinner at the Central Hotel in Glasgow covered the event. Well done livestream by the way that this stuff is still available for all.

    Cactus is there and others but you can find them for yourselves what I what to point out is the hypocrisy of Jim Murphy in handing over a plastic bag of food for the foodbank collection. This can be seen in the first 3 minutes, don’t watch the whole 3 minutes if any swearing might upset you by the way.

    That was minor because the main bit you need to see is the bag for the food bank left by Ed Milliband and what it contains.

    Here’s a clue, it contains the ultimate insult you could think of to those that support Independence.

    Jim Murphy first 3 minutes.

    Ed Milliband donation from 1:10:00 and must be watched as you WILL be gobsmacked.

    The whole video is worth watching but at 1 and 1/2 hours long then I guess you need the time to do so. I reckon a few that post on Wings might benefit from watching though rather than go off on one.

  284. Breeks says:

    Liz g says:
    30 December, 2018 at 9:12 pm
    Breeks @ 8.50
    I would have said that to Invest our Sovereignty in the Scottish Constitution would be the most simple/ elegant and more to the point the most widely understood method….

    Liz I completely agree. Our formal Constitution should be simplicity itself, essentially a modern and “future proofed” distillation of the Declaration of Arbroath.

    But the phenomenon of a nation where every citizen has the rights and entitlements of a sovereign monarch requires interpretation to be manageable and the country governable in practical reality.

    I mentioned young Scottish minors being denied the vote, which is a curtailment of their sovereign birthright. I mentioned the losers in any democratic referendum will have their sovereign will frustrated because they are in minority. How can we put a murderer in prison if he is a sovereign citizen? If EVERYONE is sovereign, then doesn’t that mean that a single person has a sovereign veto over change?

    The solution? It isn’t complicated… We keep our Sovereign Constitution concise and succinct. The people are Sovereign. But we also need to support that simplicity with a written covenant which elaborates upon the central principle, and becomes both an instruction book and a rule book whereby people can understand their rights.

    Look at the EU Constitution, which you can boil down the principle of the 4 Freedoms which are held sacrosanct, but there follows beyond a great and exhaustive study of bureaucratic dogma, written rules and protocols describing in specific terms how the principles are made manifest.

    Thumbs up for a succinct and punchy Constitution of essential principle, but we will need to augment that simplicity with the “small print” of a written Covenant to accommodate times when “some of us are more sovereign than others”.

  285. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 4.49
    Oh, my friend,there’s where’s we always …. write “the same but diffrent”…
    I know that you have a laser sharp view of our Sovereignty!!
    But you need to realise that,in and of itself,our Sovereignty,must be by its very nature!!..Consensual.
    Therefore it must be -A- live document!
    We cannot bind future generations…. And I think that is what you have just acknowledged!
    An instruction book or a rule book…. Is not (I’d say) what it should be.
    It should be a MECHANISM…. To achieving what each generation of Scots needs it to be..
    Our main task right here right now … Is to make sure that the doing of it remains in Our hands..
    I don’t think that Indy is in any doubt..
    I do think that we need to have a care for so called ” Civic Scotland ” creating Our Constitution??
    We need to own it… That’s our real task after the Yes vote!

  286. Ken500 says:

    The unionists want to deport their own families. They have foreign family members. Foreign wives and children. They want rules to deport their own family members and chikdren. Under the rules and laws they want imposed. They and their relations could be deported.

    Boris Johnston was born in New York and was brought up in Brussels on EU money. His privilege upbringing was on EU funding, Farague’swife and chikdren could be deported if they have not already on their dual passports. They are migrants. Hunt’s wife is Japanese. She could be deported. Jeremy Corbyn’s wife is Mexican she could be deported. Most of the unionists trying to impose these rules are migrants from migrant families. They don’t seem to realise these rules will apply to them retrospectively, Andrew Neil and Fraser Nelson wives are Swedish they could be deported. The children are migrant children. So they would have to go with their mothers. Tomkins wife is American his children are migrants. So they could be deported as well.

    That’s how stupid these people are they want to impose rules on other that will affect them and their families as well. They are beyond stupid they are complete imbeciles. They are trying to ‘other’ their own families and relations. Trying to make them second class citizens. migrant citizens, Ruining their own families. If these rules and Laws are imposed. It is just unbelievable how fundamentally ignorant and arrogant these people are playing with their own families rights. Beyond stupid completely ridiculous. The unionists are making families which were born in the UK pay £thousands to live in the place they were born in.

    If they are not stopped they want to destroy their own families and chikdren rights. Not just other people’s families but their relatives and families too. They are beyond stupid. They are contemptible, The harm they are doing to the UK world economy. They are trying to cause a world recession. That is what they are going to do. If they are not stopped soon.

  287. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 20:16 (30.Jan):

    Just what have any of you posted today that might be relevant eh? Ask yourselves that, do you think new visitors to Wings want to read your moans?

    Well, that’s a cute little inversion of my main point, which is that there’s already a welter of off-putting high-volume dross, and far more of that than the recent complaints about it. I did, for example, have a try yesterday to contribute positively by an attempt to counteract another of those occasional EU misdirections, only to be overtaken virtually immediately by yet more off-topic dross. It’s hardly worth bothering.

    As I mentioned, when it gets to the point of suffocating any kind of constructive discourse, it’s no longer enough to say “scroll on by”. That might be just dandy for the dedicated self-publicist, who isn’t listening anyway, but it’s a killer for the casual visitor. We want those people, don’t we?

    So leave off trying to subvert/invert my meaning, since it’s damn obvious where the vast majority of the off-putting material is coming from, and it sure as hell ain’t my one solitary observation about it yesterday.

  288. Ken500 says:

    For many of these unionists trying to impose Brexit. It is not about migration or the number of people in Britain. Most of these lunatic Brexiteers were at this destruction forty years ago when they were ruining their own country and other countries as well. There was a smaller population. These appalling people are now being ‘knighted’ for it by members of a migrant family for aiding the destruction. Total hypocrites. It is just unbelievable.

    The Tories were trying to come out of the EU forty years ago. Thatcher. That is what took her down. EU matters. The Tories had to get rid of her because of the havoc and destruction they had cause the economy,with their appalling policies. They were ruining the UK economy then as well. Policies which came back to haunt in the Banking crash and the illegal wars. Thatcher et al laid the ground work for these catastrophes. Still affecting the world now, causing poverty and deprivation worldwide today. It was the actions of Westminster imbeciles and their members that cause these catastrophies. Voted for by people outwith Scotland to keep them in power.

    These EU and economic policies which the Tories are trying to impose now are the same as the policies that decimated the economy then. It is deja Vu. If they are not stopped. They are trying to do exactly the same again. Now. It is like history repeating itself.

    Thatcher had unemployment in NI (the troubles) 20% Unemployment is Scotland 15%. Devastated the Scottish economy illegally and secretly taking Scotttish resources and lying about. Interest rates at 15%+. Inflation up to 25%. Sanctioning and starving people. Sold off utilities. Ruined the world banking system. Causing misery and strife for millions, There were violence, uprising and riots all over Britain because of the Tories appalling policies. This accumulated in the Poll tax and many riots and disorder because Thatcher and her Brexiteer mates were starving people. The same one’s who are doing it now. If they are not stopped there will be civil disorder. People will not stand for it. The violence of the Thatcher years and civil disorder will return. It is like the return of the wicked. History repeating itself. With the same culprits involved. Deja Vu. The unionists are out to ruin the world economy again. The same people. Labour are as bad.

    The difference for Scotland is Scotland now has Devolution and can stand up to them. The people have voted the unionists out. Even though the unionists changed the political system in Scotland to give them unfair advantage. They still have been voted out. People can vote against these appalling unionist policies. They are trying to impose on Scotland. People in Scotland now can and must vote them out. Until the unionists are down and out. Labour – unionists – politicans are just as bad.

    These appalling people trying to harm their own relations and family members. They think they are exempt but they are not. It will affect them and their associates just as well. That is how unbelievable selfish, ignorant and arrogant they can be. Being warned time and time about their lunacy. Davidson’s partner is Irish. The parent of her own child. Under the Tory rules they are trying to imposed on others. They will ‘other’ their own families, Not just the catastrophic damage they will do to the economy. They will ‘other’ their own flesh and blood, They will have to register and be imposed to Draconian rules. Costing £thousands for individuals, £Billions wasted overall. It is just unbelievable how blinkered these people have become to their own actions. Living in a bubble of arrogance. Dspite being warned about it time and time again. When will they come out of a destructive union.

  289. Ken500 says:

    Tomkins, the 3rd rate reject, is living on Scottish taxpayers money, insulting them and try to impose rules on others, which would deport his own family. That is how fundamental beyond stupid it has become. They think it will apply to others but it will also apply to them. Beyond stupid.

  290. Ken500 says:

    The Westminster unionists have ruined people’s Christmas and NewYear. Alarming and harming so many people. Postponing a necessary vote illegally. Now ducking and diving trying to thwart democracy. Once again bribery for honours. The most honourable people refuse honours for ruining the economy and other people’s lives. They are the charitable people who achieve respect.

  291. Mary miles says:

    We are about 11 hours ahead of UK here in Tassie and it is presently 7.00pm so we will celebrate NY some time ahead of you.

    I wish your all very best wishes for an enjoyable NY celebration and a wonderful 2019 and a memorable one for Scotland.

  292. Ken500 says:

    Murdoch,the migrant, has made £Billions out of Britain and not paid taxes, complaining about migrants, of which he is one. His migrant family is still at it churning out nonsense about themselves. The guilty ones being paid by migrants. An act of collosal self harming. Not only harming others but harming themselves.

    Most of these illegal action lunatics should be in jail. Murdoch is an illegal migrant every time he comes to Britain. Without status, acvomadated by the Westminster unionists. Who break the Law with impunity. They think they are above the Law. They should not.

  293. Have a Guid New Year everyone.

    Let’s hope we have something to really get our teeth into soon.

    87 days to go……

    Heard a typical Nick Robinson comment this morning when he referred to the Conservative Party as, “this country’s most successful political party” Hmmm!

    I wonder what he considers success and he certainly wasn’t referring to my country.

    Have a great night Cactus.

  294. bittie45 says:

    A Guid Hogmanay to all.

    I admire Robert Peffer’s posts – they always set me a-thinking.

    How about each citizen of Scotland sending a signal that as far as he or she is concerned, Scotland’s union with England is over and is now independent.

    Something like every Monday evening where practicable at 1 minute (or longer) before 10pm as many lights (that can be seen from the outside) as possible are switched off, then at 10pm these lights are switched on for a minute (or longer).

    Monday, because it will not disrupt most peoples weekend activities. 10pm, because it is late enough for most after work activities to be done, and early enough to not be too late for most of those with an earlier bed time.

    It would signal to the SG that the people are ready, and it’s then for the SG to time any official declaration and confirmatory indy referendum to tactically/ strategically the best moment.

  295. frogesque says:

    It’s the way they don’t tell ’em.

    Huge torchlight procession on Edinburgh culminating in the lit map of Scotland at Hollywood.

    Strangely seems to have been missed by the EBC website this morning.

  296. wull2 says:

    Just because there is Adult channels on the TV, it does not stop me from watching Emmerdale, I just don’t watch the Adult channels and BBC news.

    Keep watching over Scotland during the dark hours.

  297. Macart says:

    Wishing all a peaceful and prosperous New Year.

    All the very best for 2019 folks. ?

  298. Ken500 says:

    Everybody in the UK have migrant family and friends who the Tory/Labour and other unionists are trying to deport. Everyone. Everyone in the UK will be affected and harmed by this totally illegal, non mandated action. Already being undertaken and done without redress.

  299. Ghillie says:

    Thepnr @ 2.00 am

    Thank you for that link to the Indy Live film of the protest against the SLabour fine dinning night back in the day when we had just lost our first Indyref vote.

    The passion! Ronnie and Cactus =)

    I’d forgotten that Jim Murphy had ever even existed!

    We were supposed to sit down and be quiet. What a bad lot we are to no do as we’re telt!

    Thing is, we’ve come a very long way.

    Oh back in the day alot of Indy-minded folk were very politically engaged and folk from all walks of life made it their mission to know what they were talking about.

    But NOW we, the Indy-minded folk, have honed those skills, added and added to the knowledge, ramped up the cynicism of Westminster and the MSM.

    AND the passion is stronger than ever.

    Roll on 2019.

    We are ready for you 🙂

  300. sassenach says:

    A happy and independent New Year to everyone reading Wings.

    It will be a roller coaster ride, I’m sure, but we are now on much firmer ground than 2014 – more people are now accepting the fact that Scotland COULD/WILL become independent.

    But let’s just enjoy Hogmanay, and, in the morning, start our drumbeat once again – those Britnats keep thinking they’re winning, but we’ve not even started, yet!

    Have a Great Year, folks, and thanks to (nearly?) all posters for their inputs.

  301. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    As we approach the New Year let us contemplate on a wisdom that has been discovered.
    We will win independence on a vision of the new and better country the clever and able people of Scotland will build.
    The case for it has always been about national self respect.
    In the final analysis it is an emotional judgement and a judgement born of confidence in ourselves.

    The arguments about tuppence and thruppence and currencies and passports and borders and deficits are all diversions our clever opponents with their massive media control tie us up in.

    We only have one battle left to win. We have to establish with our ill informed little mice that we are economically self sufficient and just as able as anybody else and just as honest and ambitious to use our plentiful resources and our huge abilities to build a decent nation.

    We don’t need a constitution at the moment. We need half a dozen founding principles and our independent parliament can build a constitution around them.

  302. Simon Curran says:

    Slightly o/t but from BBC website this morning and the American ambassador bigging up how a ‘no deal’ would be in UK’s best interests. What caught my eye though was at the end of the report the ambassador ‘added that it would be “great” if President Trump’s postponed state visit could take place in May, around the time of World War Two commemorations – if his schedule, and that of the Queen, allowed.’
    Seriously yet more World War commemorations! More opportunities for reinforcing pro Brexit Unionist narratives and waving the Union Flag.
    How about remembering 31st January 1919 instead.

  303. Footsoldier says:

    Thepnr @02:00:

    Euan McColm is a Unionist and writes accordingly. In yesterday’s Sunday Times he writes that the SNP seeks the ultimate prize of “breaking up the United Kingdom”. This is very sloppy writing tailored to suit his own agenda or that of his paymasters.

    In fact the SNP seeks the ultimate prize of independence. The breaking up of the UK is a consequence of that. One could also say that the UK’s current plan is the break up the EU and Brexit is the consequence.

    I actually like the Sunday Times as, in the main, it is an excellent newspaper but I only buy it occasionally. Unfortunately the biased writings of people like Chris Deerin and Euan McColm put me right off being a regular reader. It’s not because they are for the Union and against independence, it’s their lack of balance always tainted by their own beliefs. There is currently a 50% off offer on the ST for a year but regrettably – no thanks.

    Chris Deerin for example complains the Scottish Government or its agencies are not dealing with the demographic time-bomb of an ageing population and makes some fair points. Lack of balance prevents him for extrapolating as to the causes, one of the major ones being young Scots heading south because of UK policy concentrating wealth in the SE of England, over which the SNP has no real control.

    This lack of balance is one of the causes of the decline in newspaper reading in Scotland along with all the other well known factors.

  304. admiral says:

    “Chris Deerin for example complains the Scottish Government or its agencies are not dealing with the demographic time-bomb of an ageing population and makes some fair points. Lack of balance prevents him for extrapolating as to the causes, one of the major ones being young Scots heading south because of UK policy concentrating wealth in the SE of England, over which the SNP has no real control.
    This lack of balance is one of the causes of the decline in newspaper…”

    Control of immigration is another issue.

    BTW, I don’t think of the ST as a “good” newspaper.

    There are too many occasions when it excoriates the Scottish Government for something or other that is usually reserved to Westminster, without providing any balanced comment about the SG’s lack of power to do much, if anything. Yesterday’s front page splash on the rise in deaths due to drug abuse is a case in point – a “Holyrood must act” screeching headline, without acknowledgement of the fact that drug policy is reserved and that the Home Office has refused to countenance any and all requests by the SG to be allowed to try new policies to see if they will help.

    The business pages have a “Scottish” contribution from someone called Michael Glackin, which is one long diatribe against the SG demanding they do this, do that, as if the SG were responsible for controlling more than the merest smidgeon of the economy and had the power.

    Of course, suggest to any of these people that, if they think the SG should deal with these issues, they should back at the very least the devolution of the powers to allow them to do so, and the howling outrage at the very thought is off the scale.

    Their letters page is also usually an anti-Scottish diatribe, with any letter about the “disastrous” state of health, education, transport, etc, etc you-name-it gleefully published, as if it were proven fact. Any rant, untainted by truth or fact, by a Brit Nat nutcase is guaranteed to be published.

  305. Ken500 says:

    Chris Deerin is a liar. Elderly people are being looked after in Scotland better than anywhere else in the UK. They would be looked after even better if Westminster unionists were still not illegally taking Scotland’s resources and wasting them.

    There are adjustment to be made in the future but nothing that can’t be managed given the right priorities which Westminster unionists are incapable of achieving. Westminster migration policies will damage the Scottish economy.

    There are 1.5million over 60/65 years olds in Scotland. 1.5Million under 16 years old. The rest in between. 2.2Million of various age spans which balance out. The will be a peak but nothing that cannot be managed. Equally and successfully. It has been done before in many countries. It is a question as usual of priorities. OAP’s pay tax. A increasing number have pensions.

    Life expectancy in the rest of the UK has stalled and is decreasing. Under Tory/unionist governance. The Tories/unionist are killing off their own supporters. Not a great political strategy but than they want to deport more people. Alcohol/drug abuse and obesity will see off even more. The illegal wars have impoverished even more, worldwide. The Westminster mass murderers want to illegally see off even more.

  306. Ken500 says:

    Migrant Murdoch Sunday Times. Full of hypocrites. Murdoch, the migrant, supports deporting migrants. Illegally killing and damaging people causing mental health problems. No status in the UK but making £Billion out of migrants and paying no taxes. A criminal who should in jail for illegally breaking the Law. Including International Law. A complete and utter dangerous hypocrite.

  307. Ghillie says:

    Footsoldier and Admiral.

    Nice try.

    The Sunday Times an excellent newspaper?

    I rather think not.

    As for using that as a cover for repeating CD’s words verbatim. Poor show chaps.

  308. ronnie anderson says:

    Thepnr chist ah wee bitsy teeny weeny correction on your 2am post ( livestream video ) it wiz the former Cactus Jack who was at the Central hotel , now known as Cactus .

  309. Ghillie says:

    Well done Ken 500, quick off the mark =)

    Like I said, us Indy-minded folk have fair honed our skills 🙂

  310. schrodingers cat says:


    Chris Rand

    14h14 hours ago

  311. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says:31 December, 2018 at 4:49 am:

    All well and good, Breeks but, as usual, you then go and over complicate the entire concept of the people’s legal sovereignty.

    It isn’t the proverbial Rocket Science and is actually extremely simply.

    The concept of the people being sovereign presupposes the simple concept of democracy. That is the simple concept of the democratic majority holds good.

    In a democracy it is presupposed that there will always be winners and losers and the winners must always be the democratic majority while the losers will always be the minority.

    For the concept of the Declaration of Arbroath to be the rule of law requires the democratic principle of the sovereign people’s majority to always hold good. That means the will of the people is decided by the democratic majority.

    Now that doesn’t mean we have to govern by never ending plebiscites but by the elected governments being elected upon their manifestos. That means those manifestos must be enforceable by the people. In other words the elected governments must be subject to a recall by the people if they cynically make promises in order to get elected but have no intention of carrying through their manifesto promises.

    Which is exactly the failings of Westminster governments for as long as I can remember. They simply make manifesto promises they have no intentions of ever keeping. In other words a great deal more honesty is mandatory for a legally sovereign people’s government.

    There will always be losers in a democracy but the principle of majority rule is the basis of overall principle of all true democracy.

    All that is required for the Declaration of Arbroath to work well is the legal requirement for the current government to uphold its manifesto promises or be legally recalled by the majority of the electorate.

  312. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but I have to say that the Edinburgh torchlight display is quite something – I look forward to Distorting Scotland giving it the publicity it deserves ,after all they’ve been getting their knickers in a twist over half a dozen asylum seekers , perhaps a few thousand torch bearers might catch their eye.

  313. ronnie anderson says:

    A date for your diaries Feb 5th 2019 Chinese New Year = The year of the PIG . Tories will be Troughing in excess .

  314. admiral says:

    Ghillie says:
    31 December, 2018 at 11:40 am
    Footsoldier and Admiral.
    Nice try.
    The Sunday Times an excellent newspaper?
    I rather think not.
    As for using that as a cover for repeating CD’s words verbatim. Poor show chaps.

    I didn’t say it was – I drew attention to its consistent anti-Scottish bias! 🙂

  315. galamcennalath says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    I look forward to Distorting Scotland giving it the publicity it deserves

    It looks to me like the main tactic has now become omission. Don’t report anything which shows Scotland in a good, exciting, positive, dynamic way. They used to twist and lie more, but the internet and social media highlights this and keeps examples on display forever. Failing to report stories is harder to highlight, and they know it.

  316. Bob Mack says:

    Wishing everybody a Happy New Year a bit early,but going out soon.

    Wings is my daily diary and digest. Even the trolls give me something—-confirmation that their way is warped and they have nothing to offer. I wish them enlightenment to simply check the posts on this site and learn rather than find a way to obfuscate what they read.

    May it be a great year for us all.

  317. Breeks says:

    Let me run up the white flag Robert Peffers… I absolutely do not want to over complicate our Constitutional Sovereignty.

    I do think from a Constitutional anorak’s perspective there is a philosophical debate to be had regarding the absolute nature of sovereignty and whether it actually can be held collectively, but that’s one for the Philosophers to argue from here to eternity.

    I am happy to go with what we’ve got Constitutionally.

    In fact, I am happy to go on even less… I would be happy to see our “sovereign constitution-lite” merely derailing Westminster’s professed Parliamentary Sovereignty, leaving England to exit Europe by itself after Scotland unilaterally disputes and/or revokes Article 50 as unconstitutional and ultra vires in relation to the sovereign will of Scotland.

    (In fact, I’m not sure if Westminster’s Article 50 is indeed deemed ultra vires, whether it even needs to be revoked. It might simply fail in it’s competence.)

    But we NEED Legal Personality and recognition, and we need it done and dusted before March 29th.

  318. Referendum1707 says:

    Footsoldier 10.40

    I too used to think that the ST was quite a “good” paper until about 10 years ago they showed their true colours and their pro bankster and pro austerity bias became clear.

    Seeing as you’re something of a fan of it (albeit granted not so much that you went for their desperate sales pitch for a yearly subscription) I take it you must have read some of their more recent articles on the SNP, Scottish independence etc?

    I haven’t so much as glanced at the ST for years but from here and elsewhere and Twitter I’ve no doubt that I don’t need to read it to know where it’s coming from on that.

    How therefore can you, or any other self-respecting Scottish person with at least half a functioning brain, even think about buying and reading it, and, by definition, supporting it?

  319. jfngw says:

    @Dorothy Devine

    Sorry, out of luck don’t think I spotted any mention on lunchtime Rep Scot.

    They did have a story on the new Glasgow low emission zone…followed by a but….

    Rep Scot always getting to the but(t) of any positive story.

  320. HandandShrimp says:

    Not really keeping up with events this Xmas. Pooch has eaten too many rich tasty things. So lots of walks and poo bags. However, am I right in think the Home Office are paying 13 million to get illegal immigrants to carry cross channel trade on their heads as they swim across…or something equally mad?

  321. jfngw says:

    The Brexit ferry contract for over £13m to a company with no ship and virtually no assets is perfectly logical. Virtual ships are perfectly adequate for virtual trade deals, enjoy your virtual medication prior to your all but too real funeral to follow.

    I expect the government we elected in Scotland to have a plan in place that stops this as we voted against it, time is running short.

  322. Cubby says:

    STV news today

    The well known class warrior Neil Findlay MSP shows up – a classic Labour man all talk and promises but has never done anything. Trying to smear Kaiam problems on to the Scotgov. After both the presenter and Findlay giving full vent to their smear tactics Hepburn the Scot gov MSP and Business minister is then cut off as he explains the background to what happened.

    A popular tactic of the Britnat media – smear followed by cutting off the interview with the SNP.

    You would need to be as thick as a brick to think Labour cares for the workers. They care for their own personal position followed by the Labour Party. Workers and voters are just pawns to be used and abused by Labour.

    This report is just another example of the British nationalist political parties working in collusion with the British nationalist media.

    Only party members and stupid people must still be voting for British Labour in Scotland. A mountain of evidence is out there showing Labour does not care one little bit for Scotland or its people.

  323. jfngw says:

    Happy New Year to everyone in the coming hours.

    I will continue to watch twitter, as a non member (don’t like their terms), following the contortions of the BritNats as they try to make everything the SNP does into a negative.

    Today’s funnies, calling out a SNP MP for not being Scottish whilst they complain about the indy movement being ethnic nationalists.

    A well regarded professor (in the unionist community) calling for EU citizens in Scotland to have their political affiliations examined before they are granted a permit to stay.

    Luckily I’ve downloaded the aroma-app to my phone, this give you a sensual experience of the viewed tweet, today I detected some bull (no the front), followed by a strong sense of gin (with a little tonic perhaps).

  324. K1 says:

    Fuck! I’ve just realised what Rock is short for…Rocket of course! 🙂

    Have a guid yin folks 🙂

  325. Terence callachan says:

    To K1 and cubby…..

    In your case, I would say lack of education is the reason for your bad language and swearing, possibly a bit too much alcohol as well and maybe some arrogance.
    I still consider you both as allies because you support Scottish independence but I will pick you up on your tendency to try and stop others giving their opinion on this site.
    It’s not your site.
    Who are you that makes you think you can tell others not to give their point of view.
    If you can only listen to a point of view if it agrees with yours then you need to change.
    Rock might not say what you like to hear but he has as much right to say it as anyone on here and his right should be respected and any response free of insult threat and foul language.
    I will stand up for that…always.
    You cannot brow beat me, I’m too strong for that.
    Another thing….I stand by my principal that English people no matter where they live ,should not be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum …why ? Because it is England that Scotland wants to be free from and it is undemocratic to allow your captors a vote on your freedom.
    Some on here think England and the people of England should be treated differently as if they are two different entities , I don’t, to me they are one and the same.

  326. frogesque says:

    @galamcennalath, dorothy devine:

    EBC website finally got round to reporting the torchlight procession.

    Anyone else doing a ‘ Looney Dook’ tha morra? Never done one before but it always looks a lot of fun, seriously thinking about it this year. Fancy wearing a YES 2 beanie, Indy ‘T’ shirt and carrying a Yes flag. Swimming trunks and old trainers are mandatory ‘cos I don’t want to scare the seagulls!

    West end of Kirkcaldy Prom at the car park. Dash for the water at 12 noon prompt. Other venues are available!

    At 71 it will either kill me or set me up fine for a stiff hauff afterwards.

  327. Dorothy Devine says:

    Frogesque. just found the report on the torchlight parade – better late than never I suppose.

    As to the other thing , good luck , this 72 year old would stay away from cauld , weet watter!

  328. Ken500 says:

    Clegg’ wife Spanish, just needs to get sick and out she goes. Under proposals to facilitate Clegg which he caused. Allowing the Tories to facilitate an EURef under his direction. A proposal which he knew could seriously damage the economy and his family status. Either they would have to separate dividing the family or he could end up in a place not of his making in unsettled status. After agreeing to proposals which could damage his family. Cable’s wife was Indian. Indian relations? Unsettled status under these proposals? These people do not care. They are appalling.

    How can they be expected to care about others when they do not even care about their own relations or themselves.

    Osbourne, Hungarian grandmother of Irish descent. Any illegal changes and out he goes.

    Corbyn agreeing to proposals under which his own wife could be deported. He could either face separation or unsettled status in a place maybe not of his wishes. He has not opposed any of these proposals. There is absolutely no opposition from Corbyn and his mates. There is no opposition only inadequacy from Labour. Total appalling, cruel incompetence.

  329. galamcennalath says:

    “Why Brexit has made me leave the UK after seven years”

    The video is a bit ‘slow’, but well worth sticking with. It has a very strong message which needs to be heard.

    Makes me both sad and angry.

    I would like to think Scotland can’t be painted with the same brush but if we don’t get our collective finger out and act, we will be.

  330. Ken500 says:

    Why Scottish Unis are funding ignorant academics, with absolutely no knowledge of International Law, whose proposals support destroying the Scottish university system is a mystery. Charlatans. Goodness knows what they are informing the students. Their main proposals they support seems to be to deport most of them. Careful what they wish for it might rebound on them.

  331. gus1940 says:

    While The Sunday Times was a great paper when Harold Evans was editor let us not forget who Murdoch subsequently installed in his place – Yes Folks – our old pal Brillo who turned it into a raving Thatcher Fan Mag.

    Having fallen out with Murdoch he then signed up with the loathesome Barclays, destroyed The Scotsman and went on to greater ‘glory’ as head bummer on The Spectator and as one of the BBC’s principal fascist propagandists.

  332. CameronB Brodie says:

    Swimming, in this weather, you must be daft. Well, perhaps not. It might actually be a way of tapping into our natural regenerative capacity. The brain is capable of healing itself, thanks to its structural plasticity (see me for example). So there’s hope for even the most crabit yoon. 😉

    Cold-Shock Protein Reinvigorates Synapses

    Cold Shock Proteins and Neurodegeneration

    Cold Shock as a Possible Remedy for Neurodegenerative Disease

  333. CameronB Brodie says:

    If you’re alluding to Prof. Tompkins, I think he’s actually a populist anti-democrat. He appears to support a form of abusive constitutionalism, IMHO.

  334. cirsium says:


    The Director of that shipping firm which won £14million to run a ferry service even though it has no ships and had never run a ferry service, is Mark Bamford, the head of a maritime law firm and brother of Anthony Bamford, a big donor for the Conservative Party. The looting has started early.

  335. Liz g says:

    A Happy & Healthy New Year to all Wingers XXX

    And jist remember that’s Our Song the world is singing tonight !

  336. Thepnr says:

    I wonder how many Scots hired white vans to smuggle their Xmas and New Year booze across the border to beat that nasty SNP minimum alcohol pricing?

    I’m sure we’ll be able to read all about this in the Mail and Express any day now, didn’t they warn of such things?

  337. Ken500 says:

    Thatcher illegally gave the Press over to Murdoch, The Westminster government destroyed the Press and continues to do so. Along with the MSM own compliance. Murdoch should never been given ownership of the Times or NI to create a monopoly hold over MSM. Thatcher facilitated it illegally and denied it. Without a free and balanced Pres there is no democracy. Westminster controls the Press, illegally and secretly. Keeps it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Undemocratic by secret ‘D’ Notices.

    Harry Evans knows all about it. Formally has written about it. A book. There was once an article by Harry Evans in the Guardian. Discussing the ensuing situation.

    Andrew Neil is a total right wing Tory. He should not have been employed by the BBC because of his total bias. He has been lying on political matters all his life. He has a Swedish wife but want to throw migrants out. He should be careful what he wishes. It might rebound on him. A total absolute hypocrite. They are supporting proposals which could severely affect their own relationships. Motto – ‘Don’t do what l do. Do as l say’. The Tory unionist manta. A total lack of self awareness as the chickens come home to roost.

  338. Marie Clark says:

    A Guid New Year to all the wingers all the best to you when it comes.

    2018 was a rollercoaster ride, goodness knows what 2019 may bring. Freedom mibbies?

  339. yesindyref2 says:

    I will pick you up on your tendency to try and stop others giving their opinion on this site

    Absolutely old bean, old fruit, and I’m sure you’ll defend me when I say that you’re a divisive false flag splitter whose purpose is to divide, and to try to paint the broad multinational Indy movement as anti-English, when it clearly isn’t.

    And it’s not “England that Scotland wants to be free from” it’s the UK. A crazy little thing called “Independence”.

  340. K1 says:

    Christ do you even listen to yourself…you lost me at ‘K1 and cubby’.

  341. Cubby says:

    Terence Callachan@2.59pm

    Is it me you accuse of bad language or K1 or both ?

    Terence the man who supports free speech for all but not votes for all. With independence supporting friends like you who needs Britnats.

    Pompous – is this word acceptable to you in your free speech world?

    Prick – is this word acceptable to you in your free speech world?

    Do I need your approval to use these words? Can you suggest more “educated” words with the same meaning? I really feel the need to use them but do not want to upset such a highly educated person as yourself.

    I think you are just another phoney independence supporter. A Britnat supporting your Britnat pal Rock.

  342. Marie Clark says:

    Liz g @ 4.09. Aye Liz they’re singing our song tonight, but here’s anither wee song for all of us. Up ye get and dance noo, nae excuses.

    All the best to you and yours Liz when it comes.

  343. Phil says:

    cirsium says: 31 December, 2018 at 4:09 pm


    “The Director of that shipping firm which won £14million to run a ferry service even though it has no ships and had never run a ferry service, is Mark Bamford . . . ”

    I think we all know that name: Bamford. Yep. The one. Company making diggers founded by his father Joseph Cyril Bamford – but we mostly know those initials.

    Another case of ‘Like Father; Like Son’.

    So, one by one as the clock ticks away toward 29/03/2019 the Party’s benefactors will by turns be benefacted mostly in the seven-figure range.

  344. Footsoldier says:

    I need to correct my posting at 10:40 today, a faux pas if you will. I referred to Chris Deerin when I meant Michael Glackin so apologies all round. Having said that they both write the same anti SNP stuff.

    Regardless of other comments, I still think it is a good read apart from their obsession of running down anything good that is Scottish. This is the reason I seldom buy it.

  345. K1 says:

    Thing is ‘no one’ is ‘stopping’ anyone saying anything on this site. It defies reason that anyone could think for one moment that this has ever been ‘my’ stance on this.

    Given ma penchant for the joys of ‘free speech’…y’know…where ‘words’ urnae banned jist because ‘I’ don’t ‘like them’…which isn’t then ‘free speech’, it does make ye wonder whether comprehension is the real issue here with some contributors.

    Rock is shall we say…unique…he’s the one who has promoted himself as someone who draws ‘ire’ from others…passive aggressive is his go to modus operandi…no one has prevented him from posting as none of us can. But here is the thing about that, it is actually okay to express an opinion about how fucking annoying he is with his repeat and rinse garbage. It is actually an ‘opinion’ that one can hold, that one wished he would just fuck off wi his nonsense and it is actually okay to express this on here too.

    It doesn’t therefore make sense to claim people are being ‘prevented’ from expressing their opinion on here just because they have an opinion about others input?

    For anyone to claim such is quite frankly suffering from an inability to follow their own logic through?

    And yes, the word ‘fucking’ and ‘fuck’ are now being deliberately placed within ma posts as a direct gifuy to those who insist in tarring those who can manage to utilise the language in any way they choose as ‘low in education’.

    I will continue to ‘insert’ a fuck or two as an act of resistance to the ‘high moral’ brigade on here.

    (it’s like they don’t even understand what ‘rebellion’ means…even though they are themselves fully on board with our rebellion…smirk)

  346. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Marie Clark.


    I was introduced to this track when DJing at a guy’s 12th birthday party, many moons ago. It was a track on “Tom Wilson’s Tartan Techo” CD. It’s a Scottish band who are still on the go.

  347. Cubby says:

    Terence Callachan@2.59pm

    ” I stand by my principal”

    Despite my poor education and too much drink, as you put it, I can still recognise the wrong use of principal. Did your Britnat education not explain that you should have used “principle”. If there is anyone displaying arrogance and ignorance it is you Terence. Please can I have your free speech permission to use the words pompous and prick. They seem so very appropriate.

  348. Thepnr says:

    Wings btl can be pretty funny at times, well some might think so 🙂

  349. Robert Peffers says:

    @wull says: 30 December, 2018 at 9:09 pm:

    ” … I offer you one small correction to what you said, however: please note that Mike Russell is NOT, in fact, an Englishman.
    This is an often-repeated mistake which, I think, needs to be corrected.”

    Aye! wull, and I’ve been correcting it since I was a laddie in the late 1940s but it is extremely hard to eradicate the falsehoods propagated by the BBC, (British Brainwashing Corporation).

    Since 1 May 1707 the official nationality of everyone born in the spanking new United Kingdom has been British. The misconception that the Westminster funded British Brainwashing Corporation has instilled in the British Nationals heads is derived from the sporting bodies like the UK Football, Rugby and other sporting organisations which stems from the home Internationals where British People of the four main British countries played against each other in, “International”, competitions.

    The whole truth being that as the United Kingdom is a union of only two kingdoms the United Kingdom only has two partners in the United Kingdom. Three of the four United Kingdom countries compose the Kingdom of England. However, there are another four countries in the British Isles that are not parts of the United Kingdom Government but are part of Her Majesty’s own personal united kingdom that came about by the, so called, Union of the Crowns in 1603 but which did not form an actual United Kingdom Government and thus both extant kingdoms in the British Isles remained independent kingdoms until the Treaty of Union of 1706/7.

    In point of fact it was that Westminster treated the union of the crowns as if the English kingdom had factually annexed the Kingdom of Scotland that led to what England still claims today as England annexing the Scottish Kingdom that led to what England still claims as the Jacobite Rebellions but, as you cannot rebel against a monarch not your own and the English Kingdom’s, “Glorious Revolution”, was the English Parliament rebelling against the monarchy of the Kingdom of England and thus did not depose the Monarch of the still independent Kingdom of Scotland.

    The truth being that the Jacobites were fighting for their true Scottish Monarch, – Heaven alone knows why for he had out and out abandoned the Kingdom of Scotland, where he was not legally sovereign, in preference for the three country Kingdom of England where he reigned as a sovereign monarch.

    Logically, if what the English history claims were correct, there would have been no need to apply the English Navigational Acts against the Kingdom of Scotland. No need to engineer the Darien Expeditions and no need for a Treaty of Union for if English versions of history were indeed correct there would have already been an actual United Kingdom government 0- but there wasn’t any such government until 1 May 1707.

    So there you go. The truth is that we are all officially British but we choose what we are culturally and even the sporting bodies no longer stick closely to place of birth being what we get to represent which British Country we are permitted to play for in sports events.

  350. wull2 says:

    This is not a site where you get marked on what you post, if it was I would get a 1, must do better.
    Just poste what you want to, you are not at your Aunties now, although it helps if you support Independence.

  351. ronnie anderson says:

    Tereza May in the self promoting video Me Me Me nae new year message just Me Me Me

  352. jfngw says:

    @cirsium & phil

    I did see the Bamford connection on twitter, I also noted some claiming it is not the same family but someone who just happens to have the same name. I steered clear of this as I didn’t want to jump on something that could be incorrect, and I don’t have the time just now to try and check.

    It’s important that we try and make sure our facts are correct here, it just gives the opposition something to crow about if we make false claims.

  353. boris says:

    In Scotland, five families on the “Sunday Times Rich List” own or control a third (33%) of the entire Scottish quota and when taking into account minority stakes, companies wholly or partly owned by these families hold close to half (45%) of all Scottish quota.

  354. Colin Alexander says:

    Winnie Ewing at the opening of Holyrood asserted it was the reconvening of the Scottish Parliament; the legal reality is that Holyrood does not have the sovereignty of the old pre-union Scottish Parliament. According to the UK Supreme Court, UK Parliament is sovereign. Also, the unelected Lords of UK Parliament have exercised sovereignty over the democratically elected MSPs of the Scottish Parliament.

    The SNP’s policy of indyref via the devolution Scottish Parliament has always been without a legal basis. Alex Salmond relied on the Edinburgh Agreement, rather than seeking to assert a sovereign legal right. Mr Cameron agreed as he knew indy wasn’t going to happen and a NO vote opened the way for further subjugation of Scotland as soon as the NO vote was done and dusted.

    We now have EVEL. “Sovereign” Scots MPs are second-class MPs who have limited scrutiny of UK legislation while non-Scottish UK MPs and unelected Lords have unlimited sovereignty over Scots legislation at Westminster and over devolved areas ( anytime they wish to exercise that sovereignty by reserving to Westminster any devolved area of administration).

    Electing SNP MSPs cannot protect Scotland’s NHS from privatisation. UK Parliament could and will privatise the Scottish NHS anytime they want to.

    Where does that leave us now at the end of 2018 after 30 years of devolution? Scotland within the UK has less power or sovereignty than it has ever had. MPs reduced from 72 to 59 and those 59 MPs are now second-class MPs. The Supreme Court ruling can be interpreted as devolution being nothing but a sham to keep Scotland subjugated as a UK colony.

    How anyone, and especially the SNP, can continue to “talk up” the so-called Scottish Parliament and Scottish Govt is beyond me.

    The SNP have tried to sell the idea that the Holyrood pig’s ear can be a real Scottish parliament silk purse. The FM of the Scot Govt talks about a “gold standard” independence referendum from Holyrood, when Holyrood is, politically and legally, a base metal.

    Gold from lead. That is what has been promised. Is a gold standard just fools gold from a brass neck or real political alchemy?
    Work that one out for yourselves. Or leave it for the UK Govt to deliver the answer, if the FM ever dares to ask the question.

    To the subjugated sovereign people of Scotland, whether you are happy to be subjugated (unionists) or your political chains of colonial slavery weigh heavily on your heart: Happy Hogmanay to you all.

    When 2019 comes, may the truth set you free.

  355. Cactus says:

    Cheers to ye 2018, all ye need is iLove.

    In order of Love…

    1) Yer Self
    2) Yer Family / Friends / Pets
    3) Yer City / Town / Village
    4) Scotland

    5) Midnight

    6 hours remaining to go 2019…

    NB religious people may want to insert an extra number above as appropriate and some people have even yet to learn number one. It’s gonna be a long night 🙂

  356. Thepnr says:

    Sumdae just fart? It absolutely reeks, stinks of Unionism.

  357. frogesque says:

    CA, Power, real power, is taken not given.

    The Sovereignty is ours and we WILL use it.

    Now, please have a wee dram at the bells, think again and loose the negativity.

  358. Calum McKay says:

    Stuart or anyone, if you can pen one paragraph or sentence as to what labour stand for on any issue, not least brexit, please enlighten us all!

    tories we all expect and are found to be the lying pond life, labour we expected slightly more of, but oh boy how we and their own supporters have been left flabbergasted.

    tories and labour, different sides of same coin, Corbyn is a Brit Nat without even knowing it!

  359. frogesque says:

    To the prickly one, stay safe pilgrim, it’s but a short journey to 2019!


  360. Hamish100 says:


    I can swear! look at me! I can swear biggy words too, see me, I’m a effen radical me, follow me , the puir the undecided the uneducated, This proves my socialist worker tendencies, follow me.

    The rest- poor boy, he should know better. I kent his real faither!!


  361. Here’s to 2019!

    Have a good one everyone and Cactus, make sure you get home safely sometime next year!

    The year of Freedom approaches – fasten your seat belts folks, it’s gonna be bumpy!

  362. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “When 2019 comes, may the truth set you free.”

    It’ll be the Sovereign People of Scotland that set themsel’s free Man@CA.

    Take yer pick fae these quotes:

    Napoleon, “God is on the side of the big battalions.”

    Look at the numbers of Indy Supporters at the AUOB marches vs the dozen or so BritNats.


    Voltaire, “God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best.”

    Look at the straight (and accurate) shooters within the Indy movement Rev Stu, Wee Ginger Dug, Craig Murray, Peter Bell, Prof Robertson, Zarkwan, James Kelly and all the rest (too numerous to mention).

    It also includes all the normal everyday Indy Supporters (you, me them, us, everybody) who use Alternative Media like Twitter, Facebook etc. to accurately place the ammunition the afore mentioned supply us with regularly so that others may make an educated decision on the future of our country.

  363. yesindyref2 says:

    Chris Deerin is quite shaken by the Brexit fandango I think, and is possibly on the turn. See this for instance (and the article itself):

    There’s a few on the turn, I thik it’s ahrd to be a genuine columnist and not question the whole thing. But there’s also another way:

    he might not become an Indy supporter (yet) but he might be more reasonable about it. Which of course would mean ultimately he’d be doomed to vote YES 🙂

  364. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 31 December, 2018 at 1:00 pm:

    ” … It looks to me like the main tactic has now become omission. Don’t report anything which shows Scotland in a good, exciting, positive, dynamic way.”

    Indeed that has become apparent on the broadcast and print medias. There is, though an antidote which I think is being very much underplayed. It is the output of Professor John Robertson Talking Up Scotland.

    This might have gained a little more attention if it had been referred to as, “The News Westminster doesn’t want you to know”?

    It strikes me that this is exactly what John Robertson is doing. He is playing up the stuff the Westminster controlled and funded media is playing down. Perhaps we Wingers should be pushing Prof John’s great efforts a great deal more than we have done to date.

    Personally I always find my spirits have risen greatly after reading John’s efforts.

  365. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Oh aye, meant to say for “God” in the quotes in my post at 6:25 pm, feel free to insert yer own preferred deity (or none).

  366. Ghillie says:

    Hey there Cactus 🙂

    A good list =)

    Yes I would put my love for God and my sons before myself, and then the folk of Scotland and Scotland and all the World =)

    Have a really lovely Hogmanay and wonderful year ahead 🙂

    And that message goes out to all Wingers, wherever you are from and wherever you are xxx

    In the words of a good man, Peace and Love and HAPPY HOGMANAY =)

  367. Capella says:

    Just about to get some food and drink ready for the evening. So I’ll take this chance to wish everyone a very good Hogmanay and Happy New Year. Whatever your circumstances, I hope you all enjoy the evening and come back refreshed for the next turbulent year.

    All the best in 2019 to Stu and WoS.

  368. ronnie anderson says:

    Cactus and other Wingers yous dont need tae wait for midnight tae celebrate Ne-er Day they further afields furrinurs start earlier than us ( an nae Tangerine Jackie or James Mathews commentry tae spoil the enjoyment .

    Not fur the Xenophobe’s on here .

  369. Lenny Hartley says:

    Wishing all Wingers (Sans Trolls) a very happy New Year.
    i wont be partaking, wee dug is terrified of fireworks so by the time I would get started everybody else would be steaming, used to go overboard back in the day, my record without a kip or a snooze was 42 hours , mind you i was stuck in a freezing ditch for about an hour until Inwas rescued and carried to my bed but upon arrival had a second wind which lasted for 24 hours ?
    Hope to see a bunch of you in Feb.

  370. schrodingers cat says:

    the most well known song in the world

    paulo nutini singing the original version

    We twa hae run aboot the braes,
    And pou’d the gowans fine;
    we’ve wander’d mony a weary fit,
    Sin’ auld lang syne.

    And there’s a hand, my trusty fere!
    And gie’s a hand o’ thine!
    We’ll tak a richt guid-willie waught,
    For auld lang syne.

  371. Republicofscotland says:

    STV news trying their hardest to twist the KAIAM saga around and blame the Scottish government, because the Scottish government had an idea KAIAM were struggling.

    STV, BBC, Sky, Channels Four and Five all, unionist driven, we in Scotland have no media, except social media worth mentioning.

  372. Bill Hume says:

    Ha, Lenny Hartley I once managed 50 hours awake but to be fair I was only 17 at the time. My dog does not give a fig about fireworks so I’ll be visiting the neighbours tonight.
    I must admit I’ve never experienced a freezing ditch although I once spent a night in a telephone box….in Kent….in January. It was bloody cold.
    Anywayz….I wish all Wingers a happy and joyfull New Year, even the Trolls. May they see the truth and come over from the dark side.

  373. schrodingers cat says:

    New Year’s Resolution: To tolerate fools more gladly, provided this does not encourage them to take up more of my time.

  374. Bill Hume says:

    Schrodingers cat…..Auld Lang Syne. I think this should be the new National Anthem of Scotland when we regain our independence next year. Not only is it a happy and thoughtful song which has no negative lyrics, it plays well as a march.
    The big bonus for me is that every New Year, throughout the world, people will continue to sing it (Except, probably, for viewers in England).

  375. ian macdiarmid says:

    Hope you all have a good new year in the “old country”.I get a bit homesick from time to time especially with so much going on.I have a choice of three single malts to choose from a deveron,glenmorangie and a aberlour so will toast you all in our fight for a independent nation in 2019.Bon courage from france.

  376. William Wallace says:

    Ah the best for 2019 to the Rev, the “zoomers” and ah the mad squad that make wings – wings. Have a great night.

  377. schrodingers cat says:

    my wife informs me that deveron is a macduff whisky and not a banff whisky, even though it says banff on the bottle as the distillery is on the east (macduff) side of the river.

  378. Terence callachan says:

    Hey K1 and cubby….
    What’s up ?
    You don’t like being called uneducated and rude because you insult threaten and swear at people who don’t agree with you , tough, now you know what it feels like.
    I reckon you are deterring people from this site with your abusive language and threatening attitude to anyone that has a different point of view to your own, that’s right , I’m shining the light on you and what you say and doing so in full knowledge that you won’t like it.
    Perhaps it’s time for you to clean up your act and respond to other people’s comments in a reasonable fashion.
    Everyone on here contributes well.
    There is nothing wrong with unionists British nationalists better together people whatever other groups exist coming on this site and giving their opinion and views, we should be seeking just that so that we can have open polite debate and exchange of views and if we do it properly there will be progress .
    You will never change a persons point of view if you cannot respect their right to have the view they currently adhere to.
    I think there is no doubt that rock for example is in favour of Scottish independence ,he just believes in reaching that goal in a way that is less popular than other ways.

  379. Cactus says:

    Hey to yous y’all and right on call, aye believe there is a new wind a blawin’ in over Scotland (well, in S Glasgow there is anyway) the trees are moving.

    Perfect conditions for a synchronised vibrational iScotland symphony.

    On the hour of our new year 2019, if everybuddy sings out loud and HOLDS in ONLY the Key of C major, and as the wind carries… previous and former no voters may learn something about whom they really are. Previous and former NON voters too could be stimulated and motivated enough to vote this time 2.

    An if ye cannae sing, hum with yer lips, play it on yer guitar, or sustain on a piano, or let it resonate from your bass.

    Spead your vocal wings far and wide Scotland.

    We own midnight and C major 😉

  380. X_Sticks says:

    Wishing all the Wings family a Happy New year when it comes. You all know who you are. And so do I.

    Cactus bro, there’s only one moderator on this site and you passed his requirements. I know you’ll be more serious when the time comes. And it’s coming yet for all that.

    Love and best to you all. Brotherly hugs to the brothers and big virtual kisses to the sisters.

    Onward into the 2019 maelstrom folks… 😉

  381. Terence callachan says:

    You know the drill
    Only Scottish whisky
    Share it with your friends

    And there’s a hand my trusty fere
    And gies a hand o thine
    And we,ll take a right gude willie waught
    For auld Lang syne

  382. Happy independent new year to all wingers and their families.

    Dont know what 2019 will bring but its got to be interesting.

    Just hope the nutters at Westminster dont take us right off the cliff.

  383. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    2019 will be the year IT happens.

    Let us gird our loins for the fight to come.

    By the end of 2019, we will know whether we are an independent nation, or a subservient partner in the UK.

    Here’s tae us!

    (My Hogmanay input is on ‘off-topic’.)

  384. CameronB Brodie says:


    The Science of Swearing

    Frankly, do we give a damn…? Study finds links between swearing and honesty

    Hell Yes: The 7 Best Reasons for Swearing
    Swearing may be frowned upon, but can have many unexpected benefits.

  385. Cactus says:

    Indeed X_Sticks, one is always measured. 😉

  386. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi CameronB Brodie.

    Fruck off with your filosofical sh!t on this very evening!

    And a Happy New Year to you when it arrives!


    PS: Hae a wee dram and do like Cactus…

  387. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon
    Never been called one of those before and wasn’t sure if I should be happy about it. Had to look it up in the dictionary. All the best to yourself mate. 😉

  388. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi CameronB Brodie.

    And to you!

  389. ronnie anderson says:

    BDTT Cmon noo nae need fur that kind of language Cameron Bs ah guid frein people might get the wrang impression fae yer post .

    Hugs Cameron .

    U ur ah wag BDTT Hugs .

  390. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s always been Cammy to my mates, Brian. 😉

  391. Thepnr says:

    What the hells going on with this Independence site?

    It’s starting to look like the zoomers are taking over here on the main thread. What a cheek, we don’t want you here zoomers! Go back to Off Topic where you belong and don’t be sullying our debates with your zoomerisms.

    Hahaha just my wee joke, have a guid New Year when it comes all supporters of Independence, we don’t need to see eye to eye to be in agreement. I’m looking forward to many more disagreements in 2019, it’ll mean we are getting somewhere.

    All the best everybody and have a good one wherever you are, especially those away from home and having to work 🙂

  392. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    Hugs back Ronnie and all the best.

  393. Arthur Thomson says:

    A happy New year to Scots everywhere and from everywhere.

    Let 2019 be the best year ever for all of mankind.

  394. ronnie anderson says:

    Cactus stoap takin the pish ( in the key of C major ) taks me aw ma time tae git the key in the lock of ma door Hugs Big C

  395. wull2 says:

    When the News is slow this week, some of us just make up anything to entertain ourselves.
    If its good enough for our Media to make up things the rest of the year, we only ask for a couple of days.

    Next week will be different when WM is back.

  396. Simon Curran says:

    Happy Hogmanay. One year closer to independence. Eyes on the prize!

  397. Lenny Hartley says:

    bill Hume 50 houes thats some going, it must be the Hume genes, my partner in crime that New Year although he had a kip forvseveral hours was also a Hume ?

  398. Cubby says:

    Terence Callachan@7.48pm

    Try shining your light on yourself you pompous prick. Where and when have I ever threatened anyone? Where and when have I ever swore at anyone.

    Insult Britnats – most certainly you pompous Britnat prick. There is enough Britnat propaganda all over the media in Scotland without you adding to it on Wings.

    I reserve the right to insult Britnats – if you don’t like it tough – that’s the freedom of speech you like to prattle on about. The freedom for you to write your crap. The freedom for me to call it crap.

  399. Ian Brotherhood says:

    For those of you who don’t (or won’t) watch the usual Hogmanay offerings on ‘the box’, the bold Jabberwocky will be doing a show from just after 11pm.

    A few of us have been listening to his regular Sunday spots for a while and he’s great for taking requests, even if he’s pished.

    The tuning-in advice is tricky for me – best to go on The Twitter, search for Jabberwocky@jjs999jjs and ask him directly the best way to tune in, he’ll give you a link or whatever.

    Hoots all, and have a great one.


  400. Dorothy Devine says:

    A guid new year tae ane and aw and mony may ye see!

  401. Sunshine says:

    Happy New Year when it comes everyone.
    I don’t post often because I don’t have time to keep on the site and maybe argue my point. I just usually post out of frustration about things and my perceived lack of action. But I am frequently wrong, so we will see how the new year ahead works out.
    A big thanks to all of you who post links to your information. These in themselves are an education when read and I have loads bookmarked, for example, the Today in History site and also many books that people mention are in my ‘to read’ list.
    We may disagree on many things, but they can all be sorted out after independence. That is the first thing.
    Again, all the best when it comes

  402. Thepnr says:

    Link to your alternative Hogamany with Jabberwocky.

  403. Thepnr says:

    Hog-a-many is pretty good 🙂

  404. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry folk, it’s just my nature, which has been nurtured to be critical and emancipatory.

    Where should the limits to freedom of speech be set?

    Free Speech and the Paradox of Tolerance

    Freedom of Expression

  405. Sunshine says:

    Bit rude of me, a huge thank you and Happy New Year when it comes to the guy who runs the site.
    THANK YOU Rev Stu

  406. geeo says:

    Nice to see coco dribbling pish from day one to day last, of 2018.

    Not sure who he is trying to convince, himself probably, as nobody on Wings with an ounce of intellect if fooled by the pish dribbling routine..

  407. Robert Kerr says:

    The Winds of Change blew over Africa and are moving North. Getting close.

    Happy New Year to all. Yes even them!

    The Rev thought 2018 would be dull. Nope! Lets see what 2019 brings for us.

    Kind thoughts and hopes

  408. CameronB Brodie says:

    Well remembered. 😉

    THANK YOU Rev Stu, for your efforts and for your patients. Fecking reactionary.

  409. Petra says:

    Sending all my love and best wishes to everyone for a fabulous 2019, in particular those who are in need of a great big hug and some peace, light, love and hope in their lives X

    Lift your glasses across Scotland tonight, and beyond, at the bells to toast in a better future for all Scots in 2019, especially our EU friends, and of course remembering those who have gone before us X

    Have a great night folks and a long lie in bed tomorrow if need be, lol. The battle commences on the 2nd January 2019.

    Get ready for THE year that we finally become an Independent Nation.


    ‘European Scotland.’

  410. Davy says:

    To all the decent people in the world and there are many of you.



  411. ben madigan says:

    here we go – while you are all enjoying hogmanay

    a concert to inspire Scotland for 2019
    Know that we are waiting for you to take your place among the nations of the earth and write your own symphony

  412. And spouse says:

    So I’m over the pond for Hogmanay. Land of the brave and home of the free! Hogmanay with the former “colonials”.
    Not sure how many have heard of an American revolutionary, famous for saying “Lead, follow or get out of the way” he also wrote:
    “Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance; and the world they act in differs so materially from the world at large, that they have but little opportunity of knowing its true interests, and when they succeed to the government are frequently the most ignorant and unfit of any throughout the dominions.” So said Thomas Paine in 1776 in his widely read Common Sense, a landmark effort to encourage the fight for egalitarian government. Still holds!
    My wish for 2019 is for a tsunami vote for own independence. Large enough to leave the doubters behind and strong enough to carry what is a great nation forward in to a secure future.
    Happy new year when it comes to one n all.
    Boy am I sad that I’m missing Jackie this Hogmanay ?

  413. K1 says:

    Thanks Cameron for the links…but I very much doubt the 2 ignorant twatfucks who need to read them most will ever bother to…it would interrupt their overarching sense of superiority to realise what a couple of complete intellectually deficient little gurning ignorant dumbnuts they truly are.


    To all wingers and lurker huv a smashing new year.

  414. And spouse

    and guess what – Jackie is in the hot seat tonight because for the first time BBC Radio Scotland and BBC Scotland TV are combining for the Bells led by Jackie…. wow! Just think what you are missing!

    Actually it’s a really nice ceilidh band playing just now – Canadian Barn Dance.

    Have a good one – here’s to 2019 the year that Scotland takes centre stage. Love the idea of a Tsunami vote for Independence – Aye! It’s comin for aa that!

  415. K1 says:

    Hope you enjoyed that last blend of insults and cursing Hamish…I thought of you…deeply…as I wrote…you truly are bringing out ma creative side…thank you so much for that. 😉

  416. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Time for remembering, aye?

    Below is link for this night, four years ago.

    Tried to take a note of the names we haven’t seen for a while and started getting a wee bitty emotional, wondering where they’ve gone.

    Maybe they didn’t just ‘leave’. Some have changed names, some have been barred. Perhaps they’re still here but I just haven’t noticed?

    Conan The Librarian
    Hoss Mackintosh
    The Man In The Jar

    That’s just a few of the names I recognised from a scan of, maybe a quarter of the comments. Brings back a lot of memories from when the pain of the referendeum loss was still pretty raw. Not enjoyable reading, but a wonderful sense of camaraderie and determination. I heartily recommend it for those who can’t *quite* get the tear ducts cleared in time for the Bells.

    Apologies if any of you I listed above are still posting, perhaps infrequently. Just wanted to say ‘hiya’ and, if you do read this, please know that you are missed.

  417. Thepnr says:

    I don’t know if this link will work but if you want some good Scottish bands and music to bring in the New Year then give this link a go. If it works I don’t think you’ll be disappointed just have it playing in the background 🙂

  418. Fireproofjim says:

    Thanks to Stuart Campbell for another year of truth and sense. What a great asset to all Scotland, even if some don’t realise it yet.
    Continue the good work in 2019.
    I don’t know how we’d get on without you. I’ll contribute to the statue in Independent Bathgate.
    Happy New Year to everybody on Wings.

  419. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wish I’d thought of it a lot sooner, tbh. Though, as you suggest, you can only point someone in the right direction, it’s up to them from there. All the best.

  420. K1 says:

    All the best to you and yours Cam 🙂

  421. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not endorsing a bear-pit btw, freedom of expression has it’s limits. That’s me done, I’ll leave you in peace now. 🙂

  422. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Happy new year to one and all from the heart of Europe.. 🙂

    ..back to the Drambuie, Arran Gold and some delicious Frickadellen, not forgetting the charming Fräuleins… 🙂 🙂

  423. Ghillie says:

    Nearly there folks 🙂

    I love and so appreciate the loving kind wishes that are woven through these threads creating and nurturing the friendships that are Wings =)

    Happy Hogmanay folks 🙂

    Will be thinking of you all at the bells and raise my glass, totally full, to Scotland and our Road to Independence =)

    Love to you all xxx

  424. Robert Peffers says:

    @Terence callachan says: 31 December, 2018 at 2:59 pm:

    ” … In your case, I would say lack of education is the reason for your bad language and swearing, possibly a bit too much alcohol as well and maybe some arrogance.”

    Sheesh! And all that twaddle from a racially prejudiced numptie!

    It would be laughable if it were not so disgusting. I’ll accept foul language every time before I’ll accept racial prejudice.

    Oh! And don’t bother attempting to tell me that what you harp on about isn’t racist. For the purpose of the Act it is indeed classed as racist.

    I’ve posted the truth elsewhere on this thread. The United Kingdom is indeed a unite kingdom with two kingdom partners. It is not a union of four countries. Ergo we of the United Kingdom are all classed as, strangely enough, British Citizens and the country in Britain of our birth has no actual meaning.

    When we apply for a passport we get a British Passport and the reason for that is because it is the permission of the Monarch that the passport confers upon us. However, that too is a fudge for the Queen of the Kingdom of England is not sovereign in the
    Kingdom of Scotland and thus the English law passed in 1603 that Their Majesty’s must legally delegate their sovereignty to the parliament of England has no legal meaning under Scots law.

    Quite simply, Terrence, the only people who insisted that country of birth conferred a nationality upon UK citizens were the sporting authorities and that was due only to the so called, Home Countries playing international matches against each other.

    Place of birth in the United Kingdom has otherwise never conferred the cultural claims of the Scots, Welsh, Irish or English UK citizens. We each claim our own cultural UK country – being born in Wales, Ireland England or Scotland does not make a person belong to that country or that country belong to that person.

    You are plainly a racist, Terrence, and that is a fact. I have a married couple of friends, one English born and the other Scots born. They have two sons, both born in the old Dunfermline Maternity Hospital. One son identifies as Scottish while the other identifies as English.

    We, in the United Kingdom, choose our cultural roots, we do not derive them from the place we are born in.

    If we did then that English Pop Star, Engelbert Humperdinck, would be Indian. As would, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon, Ben Kingsley, Tom Alter and Freddie Mercury, all born in India.

  425. schrodingers cat says:

    we will win

    just because

    happy hogmanay to my brother’s in arms

  426. cynicalHighlander says:



  427. Old Pete says:

    Hail Alba.
    Happy new year and let’s hope we finally regain our self respect.

  428. Here we go – Happy New Year to Stu and all Wingers.

    Is 2019 the Year? Hope so.


  429. yesindyref2 says:

    Quid – slang for pound
    Fuck – slang for intercourse the penguin

    Both in the dictionary as slang (I made up the penguin bit, or at least someone did a long time ago).

    Sky for me for the bells.

  430. And spouse says:

    If we coud en the year oan a high. Coud abody wish aen anither, a guid new year fir Auld Lang Syne. Let’s move forrit the gither!
    A guid noo year, Alba forever!

  431. Thepnr says:


    Love you too, always an inspiration with your positive take on things, to bring in the bells visit the website Ian B mentioned earlier and I’ll request a tune for you.

    Only playing Scottish tunes by the way 🙂

  432. And spouse says:

    It shoulda read Alba Forever.
    Don’t understand that spell check?????

  433. Thepnr says:


    Just click tune in

  434. Rock says:

    Here is to wishing the end of foul language in WOS comments.

    Only 621 years before Scotland becomes independent in 2640 AD.

    My only fear is a “people’s referendum” in 2642 AD which might reverse the Yes vote in 2640 AD.

  435. TJenny says:

    Happy New Year Rev Stu and all Wingers where ere ye be.
    Please, please, please let 2019 be Scotland’s year to be free. 🙂

  436. cearc says:


  437. Message for Cactus

    They did Auld Lang Syne in C major on Radio Scotland – wonder if they read Wings?

  438. Fairliered says:

    Happy new year to all Wingers! Let’s hope that this is the year we become an independent and free nation.

  439. yesindyref2 says:

    Happy New Year!

    London’s firework display would take some beating.

  440. frogesque says:

    2019, this is our time!


  441. ronnie anderson says:

    Aw the Bestes fur 2019 Wingers/ Lurkers as fur the usual suspects am wan of they Unrelenting/Unforgiving bassterds FUCK RITE AFF TAE YOUS .

  442. Fairliered says:

    Rock says:
    1 January, 2019 at 12:00 am
    “Here is to wishing the end of foul language in WOS comments.”

    Fuck off, Rock.

  443. heraldnomore says:

    Happy New Year chums. Oh and TC, it’s Penderyn and Redbreast I’m raising to you all, and damn fine stuff it is too. Too good for Rockshit etc

  444. twathater says:

    Happy new year to ALL supporters of SCOTLANDS INDEPENDENCE near and far , this is our year Nicola let’s hear ye

  445. Hamish100 says:

    This year Nicola. We are ready to battle and win our country back.

  446. cearc says:

    Fairliered, seconded!

    Mine’s the Dalwhinnie Winter’s Gold, tonight.

  447. yesindyref2 says:

    Aye, so how long into 2019 before we all get our nice surprise?

    We’re waiting, tap tap …

  448. Heart of Galloway says:

    Happy new year from the south west! Time to prepare.

  449. Thepnr says:

    Just click tune in, it’s good 🙂

  450. And spouse

    There are certain words that trigger a reaction on the Rev’s site. They are not printed.
    If you include them in your post, they will automatically be changed.

    One of them is the word ‘grape’ without a ‘g’ at the beginning, another word is ‘tray- tors’ spelt with an ‘i’ instead of a ‘y’ and another word that it doesn’t like is the gaelic word for Scotland – ‘Al*a’ ( replace the * with a ‘b’ )
    For some reason, it is replaced with ‘Caesar’ which can be a bit bewildering but also a bit funny.

    Don’t worry, you’ll get used to it.

  451. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Posted this at 11.17 but it was put in ‘moderation’, no idea why…

    So I’m posting it again.

    It’s ‘us’ four years ago…

  452. And spouse @ 11.55

    I tried to explain why your words were changed in your post and why the name of the latin ruler appeared. but my post has been retained for moderation.

    Basically, there are certain words that we can’t print – perhaps my moderated post will be printed and that will explain it all.

    Happy new year.

  453. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Fairliered (12.16) –

    He did kind of invite that one, eh?!


  454. crazycat says:

    @ Ian

    Fairliered put my exact thought into words – something I would never do myself, of course (cough).

    Happy New Year – to everyone.

  455. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Tunes are going great by the way on the link you posted. Suite me sir LOL.

  456. Nana says:

    Happy new year to you all. Lovely water this 🙂

  457. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @crazycat –


    Aw bestest tae you and yours.

  458. Thepnr says:


    Thought exactly the same myself so your not alone. The internet radio station (no affiliation) I’ve been pushing is doing a great job tonight with it’s choice of Scottish music.

    Tune in and I’ll make a request for you 🙂

  459. Ian Brotherhood says:

    If New Year is about remembering oor ain, *this* should be it, now, not on the date designated by the ‘Empire’ –

    This is the track jj just played-

    The Corries, ‘Green Fields Of France’.

  460. mike cassidy says:

    2640 happy new years to everybody!

  461. Benhope says:

    A happy new year to all Wings and Indy supporters. Thanks to the Rev Stu for the quality of his work throughout 2018 and hope he finds the energy to continue in 2019.

    I think we know our enemy, the BBC, STV and MSM. Many have said on this site that we would have been independent many years ago if we had an impartial media.

    Despite the efforts of Indy sites and the work of Prof. John Robertson I was shocked to see a tweet from SNP MSP Gillian Martin yesterday defending the BBC as being impartial.

    If that is the view of an MSP we have a lot of work to do!

    12 degrees in the north of Scotland and not an inch of snow even on the mountain tops. Never known in my quite long life.

    Alba tv supporting Gaelic culture and some very good singers and musicians on their Hogmanay show. The britnat attempts to wipe out our culture and history are failing miserably. Now let`s have all national institutions led by Scots unless there is a particularly outstanding candidate from elsewhere, especially our universities.Rant over.

  462. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    BBC Alba different class again.

    Why did I get French, Latin and Greek at school and no opportunity to learn gaelic.

  463. cynicalHighlander says:

    because you are scottish sit down and eat your cereal.

  464. cynicalHighlander says:

    Off to kip have a good new year all.

  465. Steffano says:

    Happy new year all !

  466. Ian Brotherhood says:

    That’s me done now…in more ways than one.

    Love to all, as aye,


  467. Benhope says:

    OT to DMH.
    In my youth I was in a class that transferred from the old school in Dunoon to the new one. At the time I lived in Strachur and travelled daily by bus.

    I had come from Mackie Academy in Stonehaven, which was a very good school, to Dunoon Grammar School, which was pretty dire.

    From DGS though we had John Smith,Brian Wilson and Lord George Robertson. GR was in my class and not the sharpest tool in the box. He was a strong CND member, who were campaigning against the Proteus in the Holy Loch, at the time. I suppose he then joined the Labour party and decided that nuclear weapons were really a very good idea when he became head of NATO.

    I haven`t been in Dunoon since 1963. I enjoyed watching the many ships sailing past in the Firth of Clyde.

    Other classmates came from Tighnabruaich, best place name in Scotland?

  468. Cactus says:

    Welcome to Yes Year 2019 Wingers!

    “Ring out the bells”:

    Hey Meg, they be listening, tis the bonnie beginning key xx.

    Right Wallace frae ot, let’s huv ye!

  469. Cactus says:

    Next song on that playlist:

    Forever trust in who we are.

  470. Cactus says:

    How’s yer parties a gaun Scotland 2019.

    Ah was watching the tv channel one footage earlier on the guest tv… quite a strange choice of music to accompany the excellent Edinburgh fireworks.

    Auld Lang Syne it is and we are.

  471. msdidi says:

    Welcome to YES year from me too. Happy AYE year.
    Cactus says ’tis the bonnie beginning’ I like that ….it sounds right. xx

  472. Cactus says:

    This appears to be appropriate Yes Scotland 2019…

    Let’s break dem chains:

    Listen and learn.

  473. Cactus says:

    A fine first of the years marnin’ to ye msdidi xx

    Ahm awa tae try on a different hat…

  474. Cactus says:

    Company is good:

    You got to be bad to be good.

    Understanding follows learning.

    It’s the first of THIS new year, let’s do it differently…

  475. Cactus says:

    Always a good thru the night tune iScotland 2019:

    The first of the marnin’s movie is Frank Capra’s finest, 1946.

    Audio in American, subtitles in East End Glasgow.

    Welcome tae Bedford falls X

  476. Cactus says:

    2019 is NOW.

    2018 was a crazy year, like being stuck in some crazy kinda UK Bermuda triangle of suchlike.

    “Don’t you hurt mah soar lug Mister Gower”

    Looking forward to the ending… especially the song.

    Cheers as always to yerself Rev Stu and Wings, roll it on WOS ’19… aye wonder what you have for us for this new day.

  477. Cactus says:

    The wind has settled, the clouds have cleared, the stars are oot.

    Our moon is at 22% and waning.

    Dance by the light of it.

  478. Cactus says:

    Because the tv didnae do it right on time:

    Only the lonely Westminster is the enemy.

    Aye shake your hand.

  479. Cactus says:

    Here’s yer timely BrUKexit update:

    What will Scotland do to remain…?

    Some people talk about voting with either their head or their heart…

    Well try voting with yer Scottish SOUL this time.

  480. Cactus says:

    George has just gone pure tonto and kicked over the trainset.

    Mary and the children are shocked.

    Mr Potter!

  481. Cactus says:

    What will Scotland do to remain…?

  482. Cactus says:

    Let the i2019 bonnie beginning… begin.

  483. Cactus says:

    George is oot wae Clarence on the ran-dan.

    (FYI Clarence was 292+ years old.)

    They’re Martini bound.

    =Bell rings=


  484. Cactus says:

    George just got his wish granted.

    Pottersville could be like Br (it’s a) UK Exit.

    Clarence just vanished!

    Where’s Mary?

    Baileys (from a shoe mibbies Greg)

  485. William Wallace says:

    @ Cactus 3:00

    Mon then !!! 🙂

    Happy new year ya mad bastard 😉 🙂

  486. Cactus says:

    There’s Mary, she’s a librarian.
    (just like the sexy Susie Dent, count me down baby)

    George is heading for the bridge…

    He wants to LIVE AGAIN!

  487. Cactus says:

    Aweright Wallace, groovy tae huv ye, ah almost made a full scoreboard too 😉

    What’s the measure of yer pleasure at yer leisure?

  488. Cactus says:

    And the meaning of the movie…

    George is NOW pure minted.


  489. Cactus says:

    Clarence says in his gift:

    “Dear George:- Remember no man is a failure who has friends. Thanks for the Wings! Love Clarence”

    For Auld Lang Syne.

  490. William Wallace says:

    @ Cactus

    The pleasure partaken at leisure
    is sloe berry gin and nae measures

    The Gless it’s been dumped
    and tae be honest eh’m drunk

    But eh’ll share this bottle with pleasure 😉

    Because you sir – are a national treasure.

    Ah the best my desert dwelling mentalist friend. You truly are one of a kind 🙂

  491. Cactus says:


    Ah’ve just made the link,

    Sexy Susie Dent is aka Dr Sexy Sara Tancredi from Prison Break.

    Can you digit sexy?

  492. Cactus says:

    Sounds tasty bro, ahm on the jungle juice ra now (OR AM AYE?)

    That’s whit ra perception is awe about.

    Aye am at the north pole.

    Milk and 2.

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