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The broken telescope

Posted on December 29, 2018 by

An alert reader spotted this today:

Because with Scottish Labour, lying is for life, not just Christmas.

The bit that particularly caught our spotter’s eye was the claim – attributed to Shelter and accompanied by a blink-and-you’ll miss it graph that’s onscreen for less than a second – that “As Tories pose at foodbanks and homelessness rises under the SNP, our communities are forced to step up”.

And as our reader recalled from a piece we ran back in the summer, there’s a reason Labour didn’t want anyone looking too closely at that graph for too long. Because the blue line we’ve drawn marks the point when Scottish Labour took over responsibility for homelessness, and the yellow one marks the point when the SNP did.

Those respective directions of travel are striking, aren’t they?

Because while homelessness did indeed rise by a tiny amount last year, the reality is that having skyrocketed during the entirety of Labour’s eight years in control of Holyrood, even with last year’s small rise it’s fallen by over 40%ย since the SNP came to power. Indeed, it’s lower than it’s been at almost any other time for quarter of a century, and substantially lower than it was at ANY time during Labour control.

In the strictest technical sense Labour can of course get away with claiming thatย “homelessness has risen under the SNP”, so long as you measure it on a REALLY short scale. But despite a decade of global recession and UK austerity, the problem has in fact been almost halved in Scotland, whereas in England it’s been rising for the last seven years and is now almost exactly where it was in 2007.

(And we should probably recall – for contrast – that Labour also ran Holyrood during an unbroken economic boom, when its budget from a friendly Labour administration at Westminster rose every year, whereas the SNP’s has been slashed by the Tories.)

So the next time Scottish Labour try to whizz something past you, we advise having your finger ready on the pause button.

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Merkin Scot

Finish the year as we started. No doubt next year will be the same. The sooner we get away from these bozos the better.

Grendel

Be nice if someone took a close look at Labour’s lying over the railways. Jenny Marra yesterday claiming that her parents had to take a cramped London train from Dundee to Edinburgh as the Scotrail service had been cancelled. Only problem is, there were only a handful of cancellations there, and none were immediately followed by a London train…

Thepnr

This is Labour now resorting to the most ridiculous claims possible in order to slur the SNP’s record in government.

Those Labour acolytes that come up with such disgusting lies are the absolute pits. Thankfully we have alert readers and Wings pointing out the reality to everyone in Scotland.

This Labour propaganda needs to be exposed, please share on social media so as many as possible can for a change be exposed to the truth. Put this in your bookmarks under “Labour lies – Homelessness” as it’s guaranteed to become a classic.

Hamish100

Labour are the enemy of the poor, homeless and needy.

They do not care one jot about the ordinary Scot. They will work with the tories to bring Brexit to Scotland. They know it, and increasingly more Scots know it.

They have no credibility as we move toward 2019.

Independence or tory/labour Brexit are the choices.

Street Andrew

I can understand the level of desperation in England that might persuade someone that voting Labour was their only hope of avoiding another Tory government. Not that it worked out very well voting for Tony Blair….

…but in Scotland? How stupid would a person need to be to vote labour in Scotland ?

dakk

Truly revolting, unforgivable deceit from the British Labour Party.

To use the most unfortunate and vulnerable people in society to pursue their Westminster british nationalist agenda in this way tells you everything you need to know about these frauds.

Macart

Oh, that’s well spotted.

That’s the team that promise ‘kinder more honest politics’. Not entirely sure they’re at all clear on the meaning of those words tbh. They really don’t give a shit who they hurt. *disgusted*

Trust and respect. Can take a lifetime to earn and heartbeat to throw away.

BuggerLePanda

Unbridled lying is all they can do and, of course they hire the best liars for hire to do it for them to endorse.

Talking about Liars for Hire anybody know what Blair McDougall is doing these days.

winifred mccartney

Labour still have not caught on to the fact that when they open their mouth we know they will be lying, either in fact or by omission – they have also forgotten that it is too easy to check their fiction. Labour are indeed the enemy of the poor, homeless and needy (Hamish100)-it really is a political game for them – when they brought out on strike the Glasgow women after their years of disgraceful treatment of them they were quite prepared to have them lose money by striking when they knew full well its only when snp came in that the issue of equal pay was really addressed so they really really don’t care about the poorest hardest working people in our society and I and many others like me will never trust them again.

Mogabee

Answer : Dirty rotten lying bastards.

Question : Labour?

Artyhetty

UK Labour and their branch office in Scotland really do have form in their ability to deceive don’t they. They are a con, red Tories, and in Scotland they work only for the Britnats and dodgy establishment at WM.

If anyone can come up with anything good or positive, that Labour UK branch did for Scotland or the people of Scotland while they were at the helm for 10 years at Holyrood, it would be interesting to know.

I can’t recall anything but I do remember like it was yesterday, when they announced they were sending ยฃ1.5 BILLION BACK to WM, saying ‘nothing to spend it on in Scotland’. Jack McConnell, the then FM, was richly rewarded by his London English gov masters, ยฃ300 a day at the HOL’s.

Just disgusting.

Truth

Whilst they have all of the media on their side they will continue to do this and continue to sucker people in.

Not everyone has the necessary critical faculties or indeed the time to devote to this sort of thing.

bjsalba

@Grendel
You might also want to check who was responsible for the cancellations as Network Rail is far more likely (by a ratio of 2 to 1) to be responsible for the problems on Scotrail.

Network rail is still controlled by …..

Muscleguy

There is a lot of social housing being finished off here in Dundee on former industrial sites and those cleared by the removal of some multis. Spot the council run by the SNP. Dundee is booming with the V&A and extra hotel capacity etc. Sure the Michelin factory is closing but other enterprises will open on the site so It won’t be a complete white elephant and those two giant wind turbines will be put to good use. Again thanks to the SNP in Council and Holyrood.

Mind you it might have helped the factory if the SNP had called a referendum campaign as one thing that doomed it was the soon to be 3rd country status while Michelin ask the EU for anti dumping measures against Asian import tyres so it had to go on that basis. A Brexit casually but if Nicola wasnae so feart we might have avoided it. We’ve noticed that here in Dundee Nicola, don’t think we haven’t.

CameronB Brodie

BLiS___d are not a political party they’re an accounting unit. You can’t expect rational policy or honest PR as they have no autonomy from their London HQ. Preserving the yoonyawn is their sole purpose, that and hoovering up publicly funded salaries.

Homelessness, Empowerment and Self-reliance in Scotland and Ireland: The Impact of Legal Rights to Housing for Homeless People

Abstract

This paper explores the impact of legal rights to housing for homeless people, focusing on the capacity of such rights to โ€˜empowerโ€™ those experiencing homelessness. Lukesโ€™ (2005) three-dimensional view of power, complemented by Bourdieu’s (1972) concept of โ€˜habitusโ€™, is used to distinguish between conceptualisations of empowerment. A distinction is drawn between โ€˜traditionalโ€™ understandings of empowerment, which focus on people’s capacity to realise their โ€˜subjective interestsโ€™, and on understandings that foreground โ€˜real interestsโ€™. These latter โ€˜radicalโ€™ perspectives direct attention to people’s โ€˜habitusโ€™ โ€“ their internalised dispositions to perceive situations and act in particular ways.

Empirically, the paper draws on a qualitative comparison of approaches to homelessness in Scotland and Ireland. Whereas in Scotland virtually all those who are homeless now have a legal right to settled accommodation, Ireland has rejected such a โ€˜legalisticโ€™ approach, pursuing a consensus driven โ€˜social partnershipโ€™ model. Based on primary research with national experts, service providers and homeless single men in both countries, it is argued that legal rights can effectively empower homeless people. These findings call into question popular and political understandings of the relationship between legal welfare rights and self-reliance.

link to cambridge.org

The Right to Settled Accommodation for Homeless People in Scotland: A Triumph of Rational Policy-Making?
link to feantsaresearch.org

The Impact of Legal Rights to Housing for Homeless People
A Normative Comparison of Scotland and Ireland

etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/4315/2/Watts%202013%20Thesis%20POST%20VIVA.pdf

William Habib Steele

I deeply regret that the British (=English) Labour Party in Scotland Should seek to undermine the Scottish Government. In fact, I’m angry at them!

I’ve been reading a bit of the History of British Labour Party, and I regret that we don’t have that party anymore. Corbyn may be a move in the direction of Keir Hardy’s party, but he’s English Labour through and through.

The Scottish Government must do whatever is necessary to repeal the Treaty of Union and the Act of Union.

Jason Smoothpiece

Good old English Rose Labour you know they are lying because they have made a statement.

The lies are quite easily identified especially by a competent chap like Stu on the job.

It shows they are targeting really old folks and basically daft folk.

Sulphurous Labour always a stench.

[…] Wings Over Scotland The broken telescope An alert reader spotted this today: Because with Scottish Labour, lying is for life, […]

Iain

Amazing, Labour telling big fat dirty lies. Do they think that people are so stupid and ignorant to believe the crap they spout.
Their days of putting a red rosette on anything and it getting elected are thankfully gone.
It is good to see the torY’s little red helpers getting their asses kicked.
I would like to see some of the smug complacent bastards from my past cope with their fall from power and influence to insignificance.
In a lot of ways they are worse than the tory party,with them you know that you are getting a bastard that will shaft you while the labour party are there to fool the gullible and stupid.

Legerwood

Muscleguy at 7:09 pm

Michelin complaining about cheap imports from Asia and asking the EU to enact anti-dumping measures is a bit rich – Michelin has 4 factories in Asia!

link to chinadaily.com.cn

link to michelin.com

Tom Busza


Legerwood @ 6.07 pm

Actually, Michelin have 8 factories in Asia:

India 1 (truck tyres)
China 2 (both producing car tyres amongst other products)
Thailand 5 (3 of which produce car tyres, etc.)

As you say, a bit rich.

Robert Peffers

@William Habib Steele says: 29 December, 2018 at 7:26 pm:

” โ€ฆ The Scottish Government must do whatever is necessary to repeal the Treaty of Union and the Act of Union.”

The Act of Union passer by the Kingdom of England died along with the Kingdom of England Parliament that put itself into permanent recess in 1707. Westminster is not legally that Parliament. In any case the English ACT of Union was only that parliaments acceptance of the Treaty of Union – as was the old Scottish Parliament’s Act of Union their acceptance of the Treaty of Union.

The legally binding legislation is the Treaty of Union and that Treaty has been a sham since 1 May 1707 as Westminster has always claimed it is the old Parliament of the Kingdom of England that continued after 30 April 1707 and that was made abundantly clear in the paper commissioned by the Westminster Parliament during indyref1 and was expressed by David Mundell thus:-

“The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

Their problem is that the Treaty of Union does no such thing and that Treaty of Union is the actual written constitution of the United Kingdom and is the real legal standing of the bipartite United Kingdom but a legal standing that has never been implemented as Westminster has never treated the Kingdom of Scotland according to that Written Constitution contained in the Treaty of Union.

Remember also that the Treaty of Union is a live international Treaty of Union for if it isn’t so there would be no state called the United Kingdom.

Forget the individual Acts of Union – they have been dead for 311 years. Only the Treaty remains a live international treaty but one that cannot be legally reconciled with a devolved system that splits the two partner United kingdom up as four countries with England having no actual parliament but passing down, (devolving), the Powers of the Country/Kingdom of England to the Kingdom of England’s only legal partner in the two partner United Kingdom.

robertknight

The Labour Party makes former US President Richard Nixon look like a man who should have been considered to be both honest and truthful.

Bring forth your gullible, your ignorant and your feeble minded, and we shall lie to them – for we are the Labour Party, and you, the electorate, the People, are worthy of our deceit.

Arthur Thomson

All these Labour lies are being spouted under Corbyn’s “leadership”. He is a total fraud. In truth he is a creepy hypocrite who is utterly devoid of morals.

And yet there are people who, despite the evidence, come on here and slip in little comments to suggest that he is a good guy.

He isn’t a good guy and destroying the independence movement is one of his goals. Supporters of Corbyn’s Labour are not supporters of Scottish independence. They are Brits to their core. they are part of the 30 percent who will always oppose Scotland’s independence. Dependence is a key element of their ideology of harnessing the vulnerable – which is how they like to perceive the Scots.

Corbyn apologists who come on here are trolls.

Rock

Is there any really independent ombudsman or regulator in the United Kingdom with whom a complaint could be raised for such a blatant lie by Labour?

Rock

Iain says:
29 December, 2018 at 8:07 pm

“Do they think that people are so stupid and ignorant to believe the crap they spout.”

They do and they are right, that is the sad fact about Scotland.

Rock

Arthur Thomson says:
29 December, 2018 at 9:15 pm

“All these Labour lies are being spouted under Corbynโ€™s โ€œleadershipโ€. He is a total fraud. In truth he is a creepy hypocrite who is utterly devoid of morals.”

The SNP will lose seats to Labour because of Corbyn.

That is the sad fact about Scotland.

The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

Bobp

Artyhetty 6.37pm. Aye McConnell sent back 1.5billion to Westminster, nothing to spend it on in Scotland. But maybole in ayrshire cried out for a bypass for over 30 yrs of heavy articulated traffic passing through their narrow high st from stranraer and now cairnryan.Shame it took the SNP to start construction on it for this “loyalist” area. Wonder if they’ll appreciate that. Or still vote for the liebor/Tory scum who hoodwinked them for years.

K1

Oh fuck of Rock. You could say anywhere in the world that ‘people are stupid cause they voted blah blah blah’, hardly some insightful input is it?

We have relentlessly covered the same old ground that this is more to do with the media and the lack of honesty from journalists and the overarching London centric bubble that the media operate from.

The whole system is corrupt in other words. That’s why Wings is such a boon, because many ‘former’ Labour voters voted Yes on the back of Wings exposing time and again the lies that Labour and it’s other pal Tory spout to maintain power.

So spare us your rotten stupidity on these matters and blaming people for being ignorant, the world is full of ignorance, nothing ‘specially’ so about Scotland in this regard. Ya daftie.

Hamish100

Rock says

The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland

and this comes from Rock?

Still such blanket comments are just silly.

Dorothy Devine

And our ‘reliable’ media will either back them to the hilt or pretend not to notice.

Shameful/ shameless bastards that they are.

Ken500

Shameless. They tell lies and call wolf so many times no one with any sense believes a word they say. The unionists trying to bring Scotland down. They also quote people nos instead of households. To try and put the figures up. There are reports 106 children in Scotland were homeless ie in temporary accomodation. The number for the rest of the UK was massively higher pro rata. Same with most of these figures. They are all much higher in the rest of the UK because the Scottish Gov has been building affordable houses. More in Scotland than in the rest of the UK in total. (Not pro rata)

The Tory/unionists supported by Labour have cut education ยฃ6Billion a year. Cut NHS ยฃ4Billion a year. Welfare ยฃ3Billion a year. All intended from 2015 to 2020. An absolute disgrace. They are sanctioning and starving people. Then spending ยฃBillions on HS2 and Hinkley Point. A total waste of money with no business case.

Fifity years of Labour. The state of Scotland before the SNP made improvements everywhere you look. The SNP have had to mitigate all the Tory/unionists cuts. While the Scottish budget is cut every year 10%. Despite the (UK) Scottish tax revenues rising. Austerity was totally unnecessary and a total waste of time and money. Used to give the wealthier in the rest of the UK tax breaks while people starved.

The unionists councils spending money like there is no tomorrow. On empty, shoos, offices and underocvupied hotels. ยฃBillions in debt. Wasting public money on grotesque monstrosities. Without a mandate, ยฃMillions wasted. Totally unnecessary. Then not funding essential services. Most of them should be in jail. It is scandalous.

Thank goodness for the SNP building the AWPR after forty years. It is like coming into the modern world.

dakk

Rock says:
29 December, 2018 at 9:32 pm
Is there any really independent ombudsman or regulator in the United Kingdom with whom a complaint could be raised for such a blatant lie by Labour?

Eh no Rock

Even if it was a lie there isn’t such a body.

But it’s not even a lie.

It’s just plain old british deceit.

Ken500

Those appalling Tories posing and going on about foodbanks. Looking for cheap publicity. They make people sick. Horrendous people. They should be totally ashamed. How they have the nerve.

Rock

K1 says:
29 December, 2018 at 9:49 pm

“Oh fuck of Rock. You could say anywhere in the world that โ€˜people are stupid cause they voted blah blah blahโ€™, hardly some insightful input is it?”

Anywhere else in the world where people voted No to independence after 307 years as a colony of England?

I repeat: the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

By the way, why don’t you start your very own “f” site?

Bob Mack

The Rock says—-who cares what the Rock says.

WWF if I remember well.

Ken500

Thank goodness for the internet and Rev Stu.

These lying manipulators Paying people to make up lies and the lowlives doing it to line their pockets. Misrepresenting graphs and figures etc. They have no shame. Deliberately leaving out the accompanying underline dates. They think they are smart and will get away with it.Yet no one with any sense believes a word they say.

twathater

I would like to see this obvious attempt to denigrate our SNP Scottish Governments REAL decision to fight homelessness brought up at the next FMQ’s , and for Nicola to ask the Dick to produce the actual figures for house building during their previous 13 years in charge of Scotland , and when the dick goes into his bouncing bunny routine Nicola can produce the real figure of 6 and can then ask how people are supposed to believe the failed promises party

As FMQ’s is supposed to be broadcast live this would be an ideal opportunity for Nicola to expose the utter hypocrisy and duplicity of liebour in Scotland

This brings to mind a phrase attributed to I think lard foulkes ( and the bastirts are daen it deliberately )

Rock

dakk says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:02 pm

“Eh no Rock

Even if it was a lie there isnโ€™t such a body.

But itโ€™s not even a lie.

Itโ€™s just plain old british deceit.”

Lie or deceit, can’t the SNP government in Scotland set up a body to combat it?

Aren’t Scots “sovereign”?

Rock

Bob Mack says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:14 pm

“The Rock saysโ€”-who cares what the Rock says.”

The likes of you obviously do care a lot, but get extremely frustrated as you are unable to counter the points I make, and are forced to repond with the type of nonsense you just posted.

Is anyone forcing the likes of you to respond with nonsense which has nothing to do with the comments I posted?

dakk

@Rock

I believe Keith Brown has been appointed as a rebuttal officer or suchlike for what it’s worth.

Phronesis

Addressing homelessness and the complex routes into homelessness are at the centre of many ScotGov policies devised under the SNP leadership.

Ethical policies ,a strong focus on human rights are driving policies , the next logical step is to be in control of our countryโ€™s entire economy and all levers of power to build the kind of country that Scotland should be.

โ€˜five regional local authority Housing Options Hubs, which cover all local authorities and focus on homelessness prevention
* the Health and Homelessness Steering Group, which assists NHS boards in implementing the Health and Homelessness Standards (see below)
* Community Planning Partnerships, Health Boards and Integrated Joint Boards ensuring services are planned for, designed and delivered in ways that meet the needs of homeless people
* the Homelessness Prevention and Strategy Group, a joint Scottish Government and Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) group which works to embed prevention of homelessness activity across Scotlandโ€™
link to healthscotland.scot

โ€˜The Scottish Government has also taken concerted action on housing โ€“ ending the right to buy which will protect 15,500 homes over a decade, kick-started a new generation of council housing,and, since 2007, have delivered over 78,000 affordable homes. And in this parliamentary term, we are investing more than ยฃ3 billion to deliver at least 35,000 homes for social rent, as part of 50,000 affordable homes… In our work to build a Scotland where people are treated with fairness, dignity and respect, there is no place for homelessness or rough sleepingโ€™

link to gov.scot

Bobp

Watching all those “proudscotbut ” supporters at ibrox today flying their union jack flags with the saltire imposed on the other side. Where the f**k would a psychiatrist even start trying to analyse that sort of mentality.

Rock

Ken500 says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:15 pm

“They think they are smart and will get away with it.Yet no one with any sense believes a word they say.”

About 25% of the voting population in Scotland voted Labour at the last election in Scotland, but I will be happy to be corrected.

They are smart (in lying and deceiving) and they do get away with it. That is the sad fact about Scotland.

Rock

Bobp says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:28 pm

“Watching all those โ€œproudscotbut โ€ supporters at ibrox today flying their union jack flags with the saltire imposed on the other side. Where the f**k would a psychiatrist even start trying to analyse that sort of mentality.”

As I say: the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

CameronB Brodie

Scots are sovereign individuals but control of broadcasting in Scotland is held by the parliament of another country*, one that operates a different constitutional principle to Scotland. So natch. Scotland needs to tow the line and we must deffer our sovereignty to that parliament. A parliament that intends forcing Brexit on Scotland. Any Scot supporting this situation is not a reasonable individual as the have abandoned the principle of self-interest, and so also rational thought. They are ideological beings detached from reality in a world of their own delusional, wishful thinking.

* by weight of English constituencies.

Bobp

Here rock behave yersel,or the usual suspects will accuse you and I of being the same person. And working for the same regiment.

Rock

dakk says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:24 pm

“@Rock

I believe Keith Brown has been appointed as a rebuttal officer or suchlike for what itโ€™s worth.”

Probably completely ineffective.

Does the SNP government not have the powers to set up a really independent Regulator in Scotland, with real powers to deal with this?

“homelessness rises under the SNP” is such blatant deceit by Labour, saving it from an outright lie simply because of a slight increase last year.

Bobp

CameronB Brodie.always said the SG should kick up f**k and demand that broadcasting should be devolved.

CameronB Brodie

Bobp
I think they should be kicking it as high as they can. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Dr Jim

Call me cynical but:

Many people are expressing a desire to help EU citizens at this time, but many EU citizens are afraid of retaliation against them by the UK government if this happens

This is how it starts and the folk from the EU recognise it because they’ve seen it before and they’re afraid, so some want their documents without trouble and others are leaving afraid for the future, it’s 1930s Germany all over again with the right wingers defending it with the same propaganda (If people have done nothing wrong then they’ve nothing to fear) Heard it, seen the footage and the camps and all that follows

We’ve all seen their stories online and if they’re afraid, who’s next

Some of you may have seen the plans to fill the shortages for agricultural workers in the harvesting season
Apparently they’re going to employ African workers and bring them over in boatloads, and now that they’re getting out of the EU they won’t have to worry about minimum wage anymore will they

I think we’ve seen something like this before as well

The Tories and Labour now posses the power of a time machine and they intend to use it

Rock

Bobp says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:39 pm

“Here rock behave yersel,or the usual suspects will accuse you and I of being the same person. And working for the same regiment.”

The “usual suspects” succeed in scaring away most posters who dare to have an opinion different from theirs, but we must not let them impose their will.

They don’t even have the decency to respect the wishes of the owner of this site:

Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (By hook or by Cook)
25 January, 2018 at 12:03 pm

“Iโ€™m getting really increasingly tired of this.

IF YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE TROLLING, IGNORE THEM. NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, GETS RID OF TROLLS FASTER THAN FAILING TO HAVE PEOPLE BITE.

Not everyone who disagrees with you on something is a troll or an MI5 agent. Iโ€™m going to start shutting threads down without warning if people keep getting into this bollocks.”

Ken500

22% and decreasing. Not smart enough. Going down and down to oblivion. Into single figures? Tories the same on the downward slope. The tipping point ever nearer. No one can win them all but most of them. A few thousand? No wonder the terraces are empty. Certainly not representative of Scotland. Losing ground.

Bobp

I don’t see any reason why the SG cannot demand devolved broadcasting,and I also don’t see any legitimate reason why it should be refused. Why as a nation are we accepting this sh**e?.

Rock

Ken500 says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:15 pm

“Thank goodness for the internet and Rev Stu.”

I whole heartedly second that.

Rock (26th October – “Gremlins in the machine”)

“Scotland owes no bigger debt than to one man and his ten year old computer.”

Bob Mack says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:14 pm

“The Rock saysโ€”-who cares what the Rock says.”

Dr Jim

The Scottish government have demanded devolution of broadcasting several times but are not supported by the rest of the Scottish parliament

And we know who they are

Rock

Dr Jim says:
29 December, 2018 at 11:00 pm

“The Scottish government have demanded devolution of broadcasting several times but are not supported by the rest of the Scottish parliament

And we know who they are”

What about the previous SNP majority government in Scotland?

Are the “independence supporting” Greens against devolution of broadcasting in the current SNP minority government?

Rock (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

“56 out of 59 SNP MPs with 50% of the vote was highly undemocratic.

And even then, they achieved ZERO for Scotland at Westminster.

Nicholas Soames is right – if the SNP MPs had a sense of self respect, they would have come back when the Scotland Act miserably failed to deliver “The Vow” and the 56 SNP MPs were completely ignored and humiliated.”

Rock

Ken500 says:
29 December, 2018 at 10:53 pm

“22% and decreasing. Not smart enough.”

You are in denial.

Lies and deceit like this have the aim of keeping that support and increasing it, and it works.

The SNP lost half a million voters and 21 of their 56 MPs at the last Westminster election.

It is my prediction that they will lose many more seats to Unionists United at the next Westminster election.

I will be happy to be proved wrong.

Hamish100

rock

stop telling porkies.

you don’t give a toss.

Cactus

Upon them yon bonnie banks in Scotland.

Here we fuckin’ go Clutha!

Dave McEwan Hill

The Labour Party in Scotland registered at 14% in the last poll with the Tories at 25%.

There was virtually no media comment about this because the media has invested huge expectation that a promoted Labour revival would harm the SNP and the opposite has happened.

I am fairly sure the death of the Labour Party in Scotland continues and the Tory Party is not maintainng its 25% position. Even if it is it will not and cannot go any higher but is the main repositary of the unionist faith.

The Labour Party had a choice in Scotland

It could have chosen to work with the SNP and oppose the Tories, Tory policies and Brexit
or
It could choose to collaborate with the Tories against the SNP (and support Brexit in London unlike three quarters of the Scottish population).

It has made the wrong choices and will not recover.

There must be some thoughtful people in the Labour Party (and probably in the Tories) assessing their futures from their present positions.

Write nicely to them and tell them the door is open.

Dave McEwan Hill

Rock at 11.09

“I will be happy to be proved wrong.”

No you won’t, so stop talking rubbish.

The SNP is now a the highest point in the polls that it ever has been,around 9 points higher than its diminishing polling figure just before that “snap “election.

Recent assessment of the polls by various respected sources have the SNP regaining beween nine and fifteen seats.

As it is very difficult now for any well informed person to go down to the polling station vote for Labour or Tory in Scotland I suspect by default the SNP might actually get well over 50 seats again if there was a General Election and quite possibly a majority of the vote.

Which is probably why we won’t get a General Election.

I won’t be replying to any of your infantile posts again. They are entirely without any political merit and don’t justify wasting of time.

Cactus

New bar… different position, come here Scotland ๐Ÿ˜‰

Slidin’ daurs & change Jim Murphy’s drawers.

That’s the noveau truth @ 42 folks.

SLR damaged.

dakk

‘@ Rock said

‘Does the SNP government not have the powers to set up a really independent Regulator in Scotland, with real powers to deal with this?’

Free speech,so I would think not.

Either way they are doing far more than you or I to give us a chance of Independence.

Warts and all.

Scot Finlayson

I remember British Nationalist MP Ian Murray used the same distortion of the facts in UK Parliament,

it accused the SNP Gov of a decline in Police numbers,

where the numbers were still a 1000 more than when its lot were in charge,

but had taken a small drop due to natural wastage.

Thepnr

Doesn’t matter how Labour or the Tories will try to spin it the evidence is clear for any that care to look. The SNHS is by far the best performing in the UK, crime levels are at the lowest ever recorded while rising dramatically elsewhere.

More new houses have been built in Scotland for social rent than in England with tens times the population. Homelessness is falling, elsewhere rising. The icing on the cake is that an SNP government have managed to do this at the same time as income has fallen due to Labour and Tory austerity.

Not only that but we have a bonny new bridge over the Forth, a bypass around Aberdeen, a spanking new hospital in Glasgow and the railway to the Borders reopened.

All these Britnat bastards have to offer Scotland is LIES!

Ghillie

Is there any way of getting the highlighted graph onto the Slab home page?

And emailed to all our MSPs and MPS – a wee back to work present?

Well done our alert reader =)

It’s almost as if they think they can get away with it. Silly.

Cubby

Britnats lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

Rock = Britnat = lies.

Rock = Rockshit = Britshit = lies.

Rock = Rockshit = Britshit = Nostradamus = lies.

K1

Well ah comfort masel in the knowledge that I’m not a sinister little stalking shitebag like you Rock…dare you to ‘lecture’ the Rev about writing the word fuck on a screen, ya imbecilic scrudbucket.

Thepnr

@K1

I’ll keep “scrudbucket” in mind, just as I have with Ghillies “clusterbourach” both might come in very useful in future ๐Ÿ™‚

potter

Rock f$%k off, yer boring.

Robert J. Sutherland

Rock @ a..z,

How amazingly pleasant it was of late to have a day or so without having to scroll past all your repetetive self-indulgent noxious twaddle. You have a virtual BO problem, bud.

(Just thought you should know, since you have no apparent sense of smell either.)

Cactus

Aaaaad Love.

Times tollo.

Cactus

What the fock.. whom the fuck is tollo?

Still thinking immediately…

Back in ra Catty.

Glasgow.

TheItalianJob

Never trust the Labour Party. Have never done anything constructive for Scotland. Only deceived the Scottish electorate for the benefit of their WM masters.

Biggest Labour liar and worst MP and PM of all time the sinister and terrible Gordon Brown.

Cactus

Came close to Bollo, but that’s the Mighty B.

Gettin’ closer to something…

Hey Caledonia xx.

Cactus

Outside… gaun in.

iGlasgow.

x3 too’s.

Apprendre.

TheItalianJob

Have a guid nicht Cactus.

๐Ÿ˜‰

Cactus

A good marnin’ tae ye TheItalianJob…

Ahm just gettin started..

We have viewers.

twathater

Hey guys the fud even gives himself away , he posted

IF YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE TROLLING, IGNORE THEM. NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, GETS RID OF TROLLS FASTER THAN FAILING TO HAVE PEOPLE BITE.

This is from the rev so we can’t complain about his fuckwittery when you engage with him , but if no one responds to his interminable pish postings we can then inform the rev that all he is doing is repeating posters with no one responding , lets face it he has been disrupting the threads for yonks , now he has basically taken over the whole threads with numerous postings of pish how many people look in and see his disruptive posts and some responses and just decide to go elsewhere .
He is doing what he is being paid to do and every response the twat gets makes him look more successful

Cactus

Take a deep breath Scotland.

iScotland is So close.

In oor lifetime.

Cactus

Let us get fucked up…

Ye game like?

Aye ahm xxx.

Cactus

Don’t be shy… show us yer aye.

TheItalianJob

Aye Guid morning Cactus. Itโ€™s that time indeed. Letโ€™s look forward to the New Year. Big things await us folk who have been patient.

Yes is the way forward for oor people of Scotland.

Let it be oor year. All the best.

Cactus

Ahm a rebel dude…

Ah’ve just smoked a ciggy inside…

Ahm a rebel Wingers.

Love is good.

Cactus

Ahm at the back stage in the Catty, on ra stage…

We have some people.

We Love U.

Cactus

Welcome to the middle of the quickening…

Scotland knows.

Strut!

Jim Watson

I have only scanned previous comments but did not see the big glaring lie being mentioned so here it is folks: – straight from the horse’s mouth…

“The next labour government will make 8,000 affordable homes available for homeless people on day one, together we can make sure that next Christmas is different in Scotland, a Christmas with Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister โ€“ Rebuilding Scotland for the many by the many”

So essentially on day one Labour at Westminster with Jeremy at the helm are going to rip up the devolution settlement and make housing a reserved matter. I wonder what other dastardly plans they have to grab power back to Westminster…

Also, how exactly re they going to make 8,000 homes available on day one? If memory serves me correctly, did Labour Scottish Branch only manage to build only SIX social houses when they last held the reins at Holyrood…

I wonder if this would be more believable if it was written in big letters on the side of a bus…

Cactus

Normally if ye smoke a ciggy inside the venue ye get chucked out…

Ahm working on it, aye ahm unseen.

One is beyond.

Yer maw.

Cactus

Dr Jim…

Cactus

Swearing on that 17….l

Love X.

Dinnae be shy… show us yer AYE.

Cheers Rev, SO close.

Cactus

Yer maw…..

Never forget that… EVER.

She knows.

Mama.

Cactus

Don’t give a FUCK.

Enquire…

Yes2.

Cactus

Gonna get out of here before aye get lucky…

Pour one intae a bin-bag…

Ian Brotherhood kens.

And Love.

Cactus

Next year is gonna be SO fucking amazing…

We shall see Scotland.

Fuckin’ Love U.

C.

Cactus

Aye can still CU…

CAN U DIGGIT.

Ahm frae Glasgow.

Fuck the fuck…

71%.

Reverse it!

Cactus

Hey Scotland, wait till we see midnight…

When was that..

Love all.

NOW!

Cactus

Hey Glasgow, ahm oan Midland St, Glasgow kebab time.

NOW is ra time for ke-bab…

It is SO hard.

Mon dong.

Fuckin’.

Cactus

Oswald St is of the NOW….

Freak out like.

Party@mines.

Sing U..

420.

Cactus

Motherfuckers keep trying to put ma hat on…

Apprendre good people.

Give it time.

Cactus

Apprendre you Scottish man and woman you…

Too think is 2 believe.

Et D’amour…

Cactus

One gets SO used to being single…

Anybuddy wanna FUCK…?

Call me. ๐Ÿ˜‰

cearc

Hi, Cactus. Have a nice stroll.

Cactus

Ra cunts…

They are around U everywhere…

Anna wanna be with U…

Today!

Cactus

Hey cearc, cheers, check out the last thread…

N check out dem chucks.

Confidence rising.

Love U babe xx.

cearc

They chooks are already the wallpaper on my PC! (replacing ‘we did 6 impossible things before breakfast’)…

I just stepped outside of the hoos with a coffee. The air is thick with the sweet scent of Daphne. Bonny.

Cactus

What is Love.

Baby don’t hurt me.

No more.

Cactus

One is HOME…

Ahm in Love wae ma neighbour… is zat cool?

She disnae know… or does she..

It’s gonna bring U down.

Crush.

Cactus

Hey Tinto Chiel… got me a new Dell computer like…

Welcome me to Candy Crush..

Level 24 onwards.

Emotion.

Cactus

Aye ahm in Lurve with you…

Miss Sarah..

Try me.

Cactus

Love love love love love…

Whit’s dat yer sayig?

Lover.

Cactus

Whom is gonna save me…?

One is dancing…

Et smiling.

Cactus

Today is the last Sunday of 2018…

Whatcha gonna do about it?

Aye know.

CCR.

Cactus

Have you ever seen ra rain…

Yes and aye know.

Love U XX.

Cactus

One is at an impasse…

Just because ahm no entertaining ra night, we have…

– GTA5
– Candy Crush
– Fridge

Somebuddy save me Scotland, please

Aye can CU.

Cactus

Sunday the 30th of December 2018…

How do you be gorgeous?

Aye be good.

Cactus

Be telescopic… see what ye’ve yet tae see…

Love thy neighbour…

Aye do ๐Ÿ™‚

Cactus

Fuck something… ahm beyond the morning…

To vent is important.

To vent is good.

Vent Scotland!

Rock@6.

Cactus

Ahm gaun furra new dram William Wallace…

Let’s call it a hauf friend..

Are ye with me?

Aye am.

Cactus

Hey Sunday…

What’s yer plans fur this fine day here like?

You grooving?

Ye pumpin’?

Be sticky.

Cactus

Do you ever get that feeling where you say… what the fuck?

Fuck has a manifestation on many levels.

Fuck is NOT your enemy.

Never forget that fucking fact.

Understand apprendre.

Cactus

FUCK is not your enemy, never forget that FACT.

Get with it:
link to youtube.com

Today is Sunday.

Ian

It appears that according to Labour there’s also no connection between building houses and homelessness.

link to youtube.com

Col

Thought I had some interesting comments to read through from later on last night. Silly me. Wings over cactus is it now?

Ken500

Labour build 6 affordable houses.

Labour would rather go in with the Tories in illegal coalition and borrow and spend ยฃMillions on empty, shops, offices and underoccupied hotels. Then they cut spending on essential services, affordable house, education, proper drink/drug facilities and social care. ยฃMillions being wasted every year. The unionist way of total corruption. Wasting ยฃMillions that could be better spent. Buildings lying empty. People were protesting in the street and they still went ahead with the waste.

The illegal wars blowing the world to bits. Wasting ยฃTrns that could have been better spent. The world still trying to deal with the affects of the illegal actions. The Labour/unionists appalling actions. Trying to blame everyone else. Secrecy and lies.

The 3rd rejects telling a load of lies in the political system they colluded to destroy. Destruction all around. Along with the insane corruption and lies. Once again now trying to destroy the world economy with Brexit and cause another world recession.

Ken500

Cost of the monstrosity ยฃ7Million a year. Add together all the other waste ยฃMillions. Brorrowed and spent on nonsense, wasteful projects. PPI. Still at it. Even though they are advised to stop. An absolute scandal of unionist public waste.

Hinkley Point and HS2 another collosal waste. They have been advised time and time against it. Warned the figures are corrupt and manipulated, They just continue on regardless. Illegal wars they are warned against. Brexit they are warned against. They just continue on and one when everyone else has to take the consequences of the corruption. Westminster unionist total collusive corruption. They colluded in a system from which they have most to gain.

orri

There’s a difference between making homes available and actually building them.

For one thing you could deport enough undesirables, hint low paid EU citizens, to cover some of it.

For another you could acquire unoccupied buildings such as holiday homes. Whether you bother paying for them is different matter.

The living quarters in abandoned military bases is another possibility.The

Also look out for the phrase “long term” or the definition of “homeless” being changed. Perhaps the rise and fall has more to do with Westminster than Holyrood. Same as they manipulated unemployment figures.

Ken500

People in Scotland have to take ‘cramped’? trains because they voted Labour.

Kangaroo

Here is one for those of you who have been paying attention

Sorry can’t get link to work

Youtube channel T.R.U Reporting
“The verified indictment of [HRC]”

Dated 20 Feb 18

HilaryClinton With a lot of others including FBI, judges and attorneys, congressmen etc

For murder and a whole lot more.

Enjoy.

I believe there are a lot more prosecutions to come.

Hamish100

I suspect cactus needs some help.

Clootie

Scoured the BBC sites and MSM…..but no mention of this false claim.
However that is no real surprise !

Hamish100

Cactus says:
30 December, 2018 at 4:37 am
One gets SO used to being singleโ€ฆ
Anybuddy wanna xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?
Call me. ?

Is this what WoSc wants to become. I certainly hope not.

Ken500

Temporary homelessness can be because of social instability. Social reasons. Divorce death, lack of proper administration because of unionists who do not care. Mental health problems. Lack of social care provision by unionist Councils. Not supporting essential services. Doing the opposite of what they are required to do as supposed guardians of public money. The blatant knowing abuse.

The SNP Gov are doing all they can to be obstructed by unionist Councils breaking the Law and getting away with it. Even when the Police or regulators are informed they either do nothing. Or the censor has no consequent. They are not banned from public office. A relatively small fine which is totally out of proportion to the criminality and gerrymandering committed. Out of date UK legislation.

Fraud and corruption at Westminster. Criminals being given ‘honours’ for favours. It just shows how corrupt the system has become. The unionist Parties have to drag people in off the streets to stand blatant criminals who break the Law with no censor. They will eventually be voted out for their corruption but the damage is already done. They are even running away from crucial Westminster votes now. Ducking and diving. So they can’t be held to account. The state of it. They want to chuck out their own relations because they do not like foreigners. That’s how ridiculous it has become. Hypocrites.

It is stated that there are enough houses for everyone in Scotland. Just in the wrong place or not the essential size or needing renovation etc. The banks not lending can be an obstruction to ownership. Increased student debt.

The SNP are committed to building or renovation 6,000 houses a year. There are 17,000 private/affordable houses constructed. 50,000 people die a year. 17,000 homes becoming available? More than enough homes for the population. 40,000 houses+ a year. Over five years 200,000 houses. More than enough. They give the homelessness figures as numbers instead of households. All households have different numbers. Household numbers would give a better indictation of numbers of houses required.

Welfare benefit sanctions are causing increased rent arrears and ultimately homelessness. The cuts the Toryunionists have made have increased the problems. The Tories were elected on promises of supporting education and NHS. They cut both and Welfare (austerity) ยฃBillions a year. Some of the politicians who did it are gone but the damage continues. Totally unnecessary because the tax revenues have increased. The said politicans still lingering in the background wasting ยฃBillions of public money. Cameron milking the Chinese/British Consortium. Illegally. Clegg employed by tax evaders and corrupt law breakers. Most of them chould be in jail. Using technology to illegal gerrymandering.

wull2

Its a long night watching over Scotland, and every hour it gets closer to sunrise,

Iain mhor

Deary me.
I can scroll by the odd roaster usually and I started swerving the weekends after 9pm as the two-can-dans boak in the thread, but BTL is getting so out of hand now I doubt I’ll bother with weekends at all.

HandandShrimp

Labour lie, from the Iraq war to homelessness. It is a pathological compulsion.

mac

English media outlets telling us the Army, Navy and Air Force on standby due to the current “Crisis in the Channel”.

WTF,,,,the other day they had ONE rubber dingy and yesterday they had NONE.

I would hardly call that a “Crisis”.

More like England’s lack of humanity to help their fellow man.

And in the majority of these cases of people seeking asylum,,,they are sent back to the country they just left,,,so it has no impact on the English at all.

The bottom line is that the English just hate Foreigners,,,,no matter who they are.

McBoxheid

Looking at the graph, there are 2 lines. One is applied as homeless and the other as assessed as homeless. Under the tories the gap was about 12-13000 of those whose claims were not accepted. By labour the gap started as 13000 and rose to a whopping 17000 homeless applications that were rejected. When the SNP took over the gap was the 17000 and fell to 6000.

What does that mean?
My interpetation is that more people climing homelessness were treated as homeless by the SNP than any unionist party. The lower graph shows also that the total of actual homeless have been vastly reduced by the SNP.

Building council houses and get people work in Scotland carried out as policy by the SNP despite tory policy, supported by labour has gone a long way to mitigate what the english parties are doing.

Labour has also the worst record of accepting claims of homelessness in Scotland over the period of the graph.

galamcennalath

Tories – we’re a bunch of self centred callous barstards and we want everyone to know it!

Labour – we’re a bunch of self centred callous barstards but we try to pretend otherwise!

Twa cheeks o’ the ain erse.

mac

And the BBC now reporting that Liam Fox is “warning” us that if Teresa’s Brexit Plan is voted down at Westminster then there is a good chance there will be no Brexit at all.

UTTER BULLSHIT,,,,if Teresa’s Brexit Plan is voted down at Westminster then it will mean there is a No Deal Brexit.

And we will be leaving the EU on March 29th on the hardest of all Brexits.

This scenario is a major problem for the English,,,but a golden opportunity for Scotland to become an independent nation.

Bring it on England.!!!

Hamish100

Iain mhor says:
30 December, 2018 at 10:06 am
Deary me.
I can scroll by the odd roaster usually and I started swerving the weekends after 9pm as the two-can-dans boak in the thread, but BTL is getting so out of hand now I doubt Iโ€™ll bother with weekends at all.

Agreed.
Some are taking over the site not to promote Independence but their own wee pathetic lives. Sad but true.
WofS is damaged by this in my view.
Is it intentional I wonder?

[…] Originally reported on wings […]

robertknight

Somebody (Rev) seriously needs to ‘take out the trash’.

If people want to go online simply to spout sh*te, (Cactus), please set up a Twitter account and ‘knock yourself out’.

Spare the rest of us having to scroll past your insightful outpourings.

Shinty

Scotland the dumping ground

link to theferret.scot

CameronB Brodie

OT. This full-on British imperialist agenda getting pushed in the press, would be hilarious if it wasn’t so dangerous. England is suffering from “post-colonial malaise”, which is being encouraged by extreme elements in the Westminster/Whitehall bubble. Time to wake up and smell the coffee peeps.

Brexit, Retrotopia and the perils of post-colonial delusions

Abstract

Brexit shocked liberal elites across Europe, instigating a burgeoning new field of research. Brexit scholarship tends to puzzle over two questions: what happened? What will happen now? This article addresses the latter and builds upon scholarship that suggests that โ€œidentityโ€ mattered as much as economics. Digging deeper into British identity, this essay borrows from social-psychology to analyse how temporal status comparisons contributed to Brexit. It argues how the peculiar qualities of British identity narrative make Eurosceptic complaints about sovereignty, Brussels and โ€œcontrolโ€, particularly salient to nationalists. In short, negative temporal status comparisons with Britainโ€™s former self underpins its long-term Euroscepticism: When Brits learn they once โ€œruled the worldโ€, the European Unionโ€™s practices of compromise compare poorly: Cooperation is easily presented as subordination. Brexit can thus be understood as a radical attempt to arrest Britainโ€™s decline by setting sail for a future based on a nostalgic vision of the past.

KEYWORDS: Brexit, European Union, identity politics, status seeking, foreign policy, British politics

link to tandfonline.com

Cactus

Hehe, some are SO easily offended, Yes some take it SO personally, ye wonder why they take it tae heart, ye have tae be there at the time peeps hehe.

Ah just push it, push it good, ah just push it, p-push it real good.

Did ye like my last linky song at 6:22am grumpy people?

Dinnae fash yersel, aye return a smile to you.

SO much fun to be had. ๐Ÿ™‚

robertknight

Catcus….

Twitter account – get one!

Dave McEwan Hill

O/T

Another very excellent Sunday National today. Really look forward to getting it.
Particularly impressed by Andrew Tickell’s article
“Stuck in the muddle with EU”
Classic.

Cactus

One will leave you with this ra now finger-waggers:
link to youtube.com

Scottish Labour are a broken telescope.

CameronB Brodie

Folk generally don’t click links, so here are some click-throughs from my previous link.

The Organic Crisis of the British State: Putting Brexit in its Place
link to tandfonline.com

The Brexit vote: a divided nation, a divided continent
link to tandfonline.com

Taking back control: the political implications of Brexit
link to tandfonline.com

Gary45%

As said many, many times on previous posts, Labour/Norf and Saf got away with lying constantly because in the “good old days” it was harder to call them out on election promises etc, but the introduction of the internet and the likes of sites like WoS, has shown them as the chancers they have been for decades.(Other unionist parties included).
And they “Still Don’t get It”.

Socrates MacSporran

The first BTL post on this thread was posted at 5.3pm on Saturday night. A further 24 pieces were posted btl before 9.32pm., when Rock made the first of his postings.

Between 9.32pm and 11.17pm there were 34 btl postings, 13 of them from Rock, who then went silent, just as Cactus made his first contribution. Between 11.17pm and 1.31am, there were 13 postings โ€“ hardly surprising at that time on a Saturday night/Sunday morning, and only two of these were from Cactus.

Between 1.31am and 6.22am, however, there were 49 btl comments posted, 43 of them from Cactus, and, to be honest, mostly pish.

I have questioned Cactus’s contributions to this site before, and been assured by long-established and well-regarded regulars, that Cactus is kosher and, in Chewin’ the Fats terms: โ€œa Good Guy.โ€

Fair enough, also, I would not expect too-much in the way of useful political comment on this, or any other serious site, between the hours of 1am and 6am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning โ€“ but, it makes you wonder.

Just suppose, a committed Winger had finally persuaded a soft No of his or her acquaintance to: โ€œCheck out Wings over Scotland and learn the truth which the msm isn’t telling you.โ€

That soft No might well be impressed by the Rev’s usual excellent demolition of Labour pish, as in this post, but, they might then read Cactus’s Saturday night havering and decide: โ€œNah! I’ll stick with No, much more sensible people.โ€

So, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.

ScotsRenewables

Slightly somewhat agree with Socrates …
I enjoy your nighttime rants Cactus… sometimes… but other times it is a long scroll to the next nugget of reality.

Get on Twitter, Cactus, and post a link to the first tweet each night so those of us who want to can follow your carousing through the Glasgow nightscape. You could go viral, become an Indy phenomenon and free up valuable Wings screen estate all at once.

jfngw

Realistically I don’t care if there is a second EU Ref, May’s deal or no deal. Scotland’s subservient position has now been completely exposed by this EU exit procedure. Ignored, ridiculed, agreements changed by unelected English Lords, the list is longer but this is just off the top of my head.

The only option I am interested in voting on is to make Scotland responsible for its own future. I’m not interested waiting much longer for people of another country to determine my and my families fate, whether the medication we need is available, what country I can visit freely. This needs to be in our own hands, and the sooner the better.

The Tory vision of the future seems to be military bases around the world, how much more delusional can they become. I don’t see my grand-children’s future as being cannon fodder for some historical empire building fantasists.

mac

What I see happening here is Cactus posting his night time updates and people complaining about what Cactus gets up to through the night.

No political input.

If you don’t like what this guy Cactus gets up to then don’t read it,,,

And it is even more sole destroying when someone doesn’t like a certain contributor and posts that they don’t like that contributor …

That is an even bigger waste of a post.

If you don’t like what Cactus posts then ignore him.

Simple as that.

Donald Urquhart

Wisdom from Socrates

galamcennalath

News via google …. “Britain’s defense secretary has said that the country could establish new military bases in the Caribbean and Far East after Britain leaves the European Union.” and “Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has suggested the UK should follow the example of low-tax Singapore as it forges a new position in the world after Brexit.”

They out of their tiny little minds! What is more likely to happen is an England, devoid of Scotland’s wealth, will become an impoverished backward marginalised state on the fringes of Europe.

wull2

I have said this before if the EU allows us to be taken out. I for one wont vote to join again, take note EU their will be more like me.

mac

Yes,,,the only thing going through the Square Mile in London after Brexit will be tumbleweed.

Tackety Beets

Like others, I used to read every post inc. Podmore etc but this last year or so I find myself scrolling past OFTEN.

Cactus , I find myself now scrolling past yours too. Nothing personal , it was quirky & I get what you say. Sadly I have to suggest that the above are right.

Please refrain & nip on to Twitter for these matters.

I wish you Ara best for 2019 & look forward to following the Cactus tweets. Smiley Fing.

Packhorse Pete

Socrates @ 12.27

โ€œSo, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.โ€

Absolutely right. Itโ€™s just nonsense which would put off any uncommitted reader. Or is that the idea?

Cubby

Jim Watson @3.09am

All the Britnat parties do Is just lie and their lies are becoming bigger and bigger and more ridiculous as they realise independence is coming and coming soon.

It is best to assume anything they say now is a lie until some other reliable source tells you otherwise.

Hamish100

mac — just advise your pal to post OT or have his own twitter account – which we can ignore at will.

Independence is the goal. This will turn folk off the site which is a pity.

mac

Hamish 100

Cactus is not my buddy,,,but he is also not my enemy.

If you have issues with certain contributors then I would suggest you take it up with the site owner,,,,and not take up valuable space by posting your complaints on the open forum,,,where we have absolutely NO power to do anything about him.

Simple!!!

Graf Midgehunter

Those who try to discuss the pros an’ cons of Indy/Brexit with trolls are suckers.

And the trolls just LOVE a sucker.

Lenny Hartley

Packhorse Pete, re cactus commitment to the cause of an Indy Scotland, do not. Doubt his commitment. However I tend to concur that he went a bit Ott last night!

mac

From what I have seen of Cactus i think he is a singer/songwriter, who’s dress could be described as being like an American Country and Western singer, with his jeans, cowboy boots and cowboy hat.

If i am correct then why don’t we encourage Cactus to put pen to paper and write some Indy Ballads we could all sing along to.

Howz about it Cactus???

wull2

It defiantly must be a slow news day, when even we on here are lowered to a certain discussion.
He is not the only one I have to scroll by, the good thing with him, it is usually when I am asleep he posts.

Robert J. Sutherland

wull2 @ 13:00,

Then alas you’re no wiser than you were before, since “The EU” can’t possibly do what you wish, since it is a collective of nation states, not the Great Federal Superpower of feverish BritNat imaginings, and (unlike London to us) actually respects the sovereignty of its individual members, for better or worse.

If we want “The EU” to work for us, as it does for Ireland, we first have to do the heavy lifting of disentangling ourselves from this overbearing UK Union. Then we can be assured that our other neighbours will accept us with open arms.

CameronB Brodie

Another OT but I think it fits the “perspective” slant of the main topic. I’m wondering if Corbyn’s Brexit position is due to ideological objection to the EU, or cowardice in the face of populist, English nationalism. His acquiescence with the New Right’s agenda is reminiscent of Labour’s impotence in the face of Thatcher. A leaden-foot, English nationalist is no friend of Scotland’s, especially our vulnerable.

Devolution: The Social, Political and Policy Implications of Brexit for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

Abstract

The referendum vote for Remain in Scotland and Northern Ireland and the small majority for Leave in Wales immediately attracted much attention to the position of the devolved governments on Brexit negotiations and to the impact of Brexit on their jurisdictions. As the core of devolved powers relate to social policy, identifying the impact of leaving the EU on aspects of social policy is highly significant. This article examines the impact of EU programmes, funding, directives and regulations as delivered in recent years, noting the nature of the participation of the devolved administrations in EU decision making.

The post-referendum concerns of the devolved governments and their approaches to Brexit and Brexit negotiations are explained. Also discussed are the likely major changes as well as possible changes that will take place in the operation of devolution after Brexit.

link to cambridge.org

Taking back Control or Empowering Big Business? New Risks to the Welfare State in the post-Brexit Competition for Investment
link to cambridge.org

Through the Looking Glass: Young People, Work and the Transition between Education and Employment in a post-Brexit UK
link to cambridge.org

jfngw

@wull2

I was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.

I agree if we have a referendum and they are as equally cool I would have my doubts at again being a full member and joining one of the trade deals with them may be the better alternative.

So I am still a remainer, but it is a two way partnership and they also need to indicate that Scotland would be a welcome member. I need more that soft words from our MEP’s about how much they value us. After all Westminster said this too and look where that led us.

Terence callachan

To Rock…..keep giving your point of view
There are some not so clever people on here that use bad language and insults as a response to an opinion but that’s only because they don’t know any better.

I have to say myself that I don’t agree with your point that the stupidest people in the world live in Scotland, a statement like that just doesn’t make sense so perhaps you could get your point of view over in a better way.

The thing is we are all on the same side seeking Scottish independence some of us right wing some left wing some middle of the road ,it helps our joint cause if we can put our deeper politics aside whilst we chase independence.

Ken500

The EU can’t do much because people voted NO. Vote NO you get nothing. People were warned. Time and time again. Some people never learn. Deceived and lied to again and again. Then everyone has to suffer the consequences. There will be another vote. Demographically support by all account will increase.

It is quite boring going over it again and again. It was four years ago. Look to the future not the past. A New Year drawing. The Westminster imbeciles will be defeat they have been before. Many times. Look to the future. Just vote them out. The power is in the people’s hand. Just vote them out. So they can’t cause anymore trouble. In Scotland they just keep on being voted down. They are so crooked they changed the electoral system, to give themselves advantage, without a mandate.

Thepnr

@jfngw

“So I am still a remainer, but it is a two way partnership and they also need to indicate that Scotland would be a welcome member.”

If by “they” you mean MEP’s and Ministers of other EU countries then there have been plenty of them openly stated in the last couple of years that an Independent Scotland would indeed be “a welcome member”

One of the problems is that you won’t read this in any of the mainstream newspapers or hear it reported on the BBC.

Here’s a couple of articles from spring 2017 by RT:

Independent Scotland would be โ€˜most welcomeโ€™ in EU, say European politicians

link to archive.fo

Breakaway Scotlandโ€™s return to EU would be โ€˜relatively speedyโ€™ โ€“ German MEP

link to archive.fo

Then from October and November this year in the National:

Irish senator Neale Richmond says an independent Scotland would be welcomed back into EU

link to archive.fo

Spanish Foreign Minister declares an independent Scotland would be welcome in EU

link to archive.fo

Dan Huil

Tory, Labour Libdums lie because they know they will not be challenged by the lying britnat media. Thank god for sites like WoS.

Ken500

People voted NO IndyRef. There is much the EU could do if Scotland votes YES. They already provided support which brought about Devolution and the chance of an IndyRef along with smart people in Scotland. One of the best education systems in the world. Recognised worldwide. Scotland has friends and connections all over the world. A 40million diaspora who had to leave because of Westminster’s unequal actions,

Cubby

Terence Callachan@2.28pm

Encouraging a Britnat who just posts anti Scottish independence pish. Why would you do that if you support Scottish independence?

“The thing is we are all on the same side……..” what side do you think Rock is on ?? He’s not for Scottish independence – of that there is no doubt – he posts a lot of Britnat Rockshit and has done so for a very long time.

Breeks

The UK is currently trying to register 3 million EU Nationals, whom it expects to pay to register and apply for a residency permit. The Home Office explains the process will be easy and online, and will not require the filling in of 80 pages of forms.

In April 1938, the Nazis were requiring the Jews to register all property worth over 5000 Reichmarks, and supply further information which provided the Nazis with information on who to discriminate against, which properties to confiscate, and in general to monitor the movement of people themselves so they could be rounded up.

To make the process easier, the Nazis introduced coded identity cards; 05 for Jews, 01 for Jehovahs witnesses, 02 homosexuals etc. The cards recorded date of birth, gender, ethnicity occupation etc…. presumably to avoid the need for 80 pages of forms…

The EU is a conglomeration of Nations where we are all treated the same, we can go, work, visit, or stay, get work wherever we like, see people, and get married and fully integrate ourselves with foreign customs and cultures.

Unless we sever links with Westminsterโ€™s UK in the next 89 days, from the Shetlands to the Channel Islands, an iron curtain will have descended across the European Continent for the second time in living memory. Scotland will be a subjugated vassal state on the dark side of the fence.

There you have it Scotland. Are you going to stand by while your EU National friends, wives, lovers and workmates are demeaned and segregated from us, โ€œmarked outโ€ as different from us so they can be discriminated against by a xenophobic protofascist UK government, or are you going to make Scotland the kind of country which takes a stand against this retrograde BritNat segregation and prejudice and tells the UK Government and Home Office to go and royally f__k itself?

This is Scotland, where we defend our hospitality with fearsome resolve.

Cubby

The Britnat lie pyramid.

At the top of the pyramid are the Britnat liars. The small number of Britnats who control and issue the Britnat lies.

In the middle of the pyramid are the Britnats who know they are being told lies but like the lies and are happy to be fed a diet of lies.

At the bottom of the Britnat pyramid are the Britnat uninformed masses who do not have a clue and believe all the lies are true.

jfngw

@Thepnr

I agree there has been some support, but the MSM has been working to undermine any story carried by RT so we would need much more coverage from pro-indy areas in this country and more comment in respected European papers would help.

Also I’m not was not really referring to stories at this minute but when a decision to go for independence starts. It will be a hard enougg fight with only one supporting domestic paper (and even that one seems to have some unreliable independence contributors).

Being isolated from the EU and the UK may be too much for some, although the purists will love it.

Dave McEwan Hill

jfngw at 1.58

The EU took absolutely no formal position on our possible EU status pre referendum in 2014 but various statements, usually distorted or selective use of EU regulation, were ascribed to it by our media enemies. Various individuals (like Barosso) who had no official locus in the issue made statements to favour the UK.

Significantly various people (like the German Vice Chancellor) have recently stated that Scotland’s accession to the EU at independence would be “seamless and immediate” and Spain has also indicated very clearly that it had no objection to an independent Scotland remaining in the EU as long as our independence is gained by legitimate means. These statements are not made carelessly.

Europe is waiting for us. Be in no doubt about that.

Thepnr

@jfngw

I completely agree with you that more coverage from respected European newspapers and other sources would be most welcome. I would like to think that once the push towards Independence is on for real that the coverage from these sources will increase.

All we as individuals then can do is to highlight the positive news on websites such as Wings and keep highlighting the lack of coverage of this positive (for Independence) news in the UK mainstream.

I thought then that it worth repeating in full the story from my earlier RT link. At this stage this group and their support is fairly significant and recent since it’s only 2 months old. When the campaign starts in earnest I will have no problem in emailing the likes of these groups and other EU figures to try and raise the profile of Independence and keep it in the news if we can. We can all do our own wee bit.

Independent Scotland would be โ€˜most welcomeโ€™ in EU, say European politicians

link to archive.fo

Scottish parliamentarians were told their nation would be โ€œmost welcomeโ€ in the European Union if it were to vote for independence from the United Kingdom.

The announcement came in an open letter signed by 50 European politicians, including 26 MEPs and members of both national and regional governments in Germany, Greece, Spain, Belgium and Ireland.

โ€œAs elected representatives from across the European Union we have been heartened by your support for a Europe which is united in pursuit of progress and not divided by fear and self-interest,โ€ the letter begins.

โ€œDemocracy and mutual respect are at the heart of the European project and so, whilst we are saddened by the vote of a small majority for the United Kingdom to leave the EU, we respect this as a democratic decision of UK citizens.

โ€œWe recognise that this was not your choice however and that Scotland voted strongly to remain within the EU. The question of Scotlandโ€™s constitutional future, and your relationships with the UK and the EU are for the people of Scotland to decide. It is not our place to tell Scotland what path you should take.

โ€œWe regret that the UKโ€™s government has chosen to follow the path of a โ€˜hard Brexitโ€™ and has so far refused to properly take into account the preferences of Scottish citizens in the withdrawal process. Therefore, if Scotland were to become an independent country and decided to seek to maintain European Union membership, we offer our full support to ensure the transition is as swift, smooth, and orderly as possible.

โ€œScotland would be most welcome as a full member of the European Union, with your five million European citizens continuing to benefit from the rights and protections we all currently enjoy.โ€

Fionan

Sorry but I agree with Socrates, Hamish 100 and others. Getting fed up of settling down to enjoy a good read courtesy of Stu, followed by the general wit, links and information btl. Only nowadays mostly it is just wasted time, and irritating as well, having to scroll and scroll to avoid Rock, his troll pals, those who persist in feeding them, and then to cap it all, to have scroll a lot more to avoid what appears to be comment after comment after endless comment of drunken haverings.

Wings is losing enjoyment and information value. More and more often, I read Stu’s post then move to another blog to find more useful and entertaining BTL. Seems like the only way to avoid drink-talk (in other words pish).

Graf Midgehunter

jfngw says:
@wull2

“I was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.”
————

One of the things hat you have to bear in mind when dealing with the EU/UK/Scotland situation, is that the EU is/was just as brainwashed by WM. Brit.Nat. propaganda as the rest us.

The UK is the Member State from the POV of the EU.

When representatives/trade leaders/journalists etc. from the EU visit the UK, who looks after them, where do they get their info from, who arranges their contact persons? Who is available for interviews?

Everything is centred around the London “Bubble” where the supply of information is secured.

If you needed research or trips to the “fringes of the regions” (London speak), there are plenty of people from the “Bubble” to help you find the “right” people. Funny isn’t it how many people speak English in Scotland or Wales..!?

The EU couldn’t say much about Scotland because they didn’t interfere in the internal Members affairs but also because they didn’t know enough to really care. The brainwashing effect.

In 2014, Scotland was still more or less an unknown political entity, historically for tourists utterly fabulous but politically..???

IMO the turning point was the London Brexit fiasco starting 2015 and that has been a very rapid learning curve for the EU.

Suddenly the true situation started emerging about the competence of London, the constitutional relevance of Scotland and the ever increasing role that Scotland is playing thanks to Nicola & Co. ๐Ÿ™‚

The EU doesn’t like being taken for a sucker and revenge is sweet.

This time round I expect the EU to make more of an effort to open their mouths in more ways than one.

Cubby

I find it hard to fathom how some Independence supporters query whether of not the EU would accept Scotland as a member. It seems so obvious to me that the EU would accept Scotland it is a no brainer.

Breeks


Graf Midgehunter says:
30 December, 2018 at 3:17 pm
jfngw says:
@wull2

โ€œI was also disappointed by the position taken by the EU in 2014, they were vague but anything they did release was to the benefit of Westminster. They did not even appear to recognise what the UK was, and that Scotland was one of the signatories of the Union.โ€
โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”

One of the things hat you have to bear in mind when dealing with the EU/UK/Scotland situation, is that the EU is/was just as brainwashed by WM. Brit.Nat. propaganda as the rest us.

The UK is the Member State from the POV of the EU

Why would the EU respect a Sovereignty which we Scots donโ€™t even recognise ourselves? Even the SNP Government isnโ€™t yet standing up for our Constitutional Sovereignty. What grounds or calling has Europe to do it? As it stands, it would be illegal for the EU to circumvent Westminster and speak to Scotland as a sovereign interlocutor.

Do not look to Europe to do for us that which we wonโ€™t even do for ourselves. The onus is 100% on Scotland to change the recognised status of our government so that Scotland the Nation has Legal Personality, and can negotiate internationally.

Everything the EU has provisionally offered Scotland, such as transitional holding pen status, is predicated by Scotland asserting its constitutional sovereignty. SCOTLAND MUST MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. Until we do, until we provide the EU with a sovereign interface, Europeโ€™s hands are tied. It is our inaction which ties them.

ScotsRenewables

Re. Fionan 3.16

I agree – reading the comments section of Wings is becoming less rewarding because of:

– BritNat concern troll drivel and the provoked responses

– Anti-English concern troll drivel over the franchise for IR2 and the provoked responses

– Excessive drunken haverings

– Excessively long posts by certain contributors that tend to go over the same ground again and again

Nos. 1 and 2 in the list above are deliberate attempts to degrade the value of Wings as a resource, and – while it is entirely up to Stu – I for one would not worry about infringement of free speech if he decided to dump repeat offenders

Nos. 3 and 4 are trickier, appealing to the restraint and better nature of the posters in question would be my preference.

One thing is for sure, the Comments section of Wings is a less attractive place than it once was. And we can’t afford that as we approach the probably crunch.

auld highlander

Would an independent Scotland allow this…..

For all you readers who would like to have redundant nuclear submarines dumped off the west coast.
link to thecourier.co.uk

Colin Alexander

Scotland is a part of an unfair, un-democratic Union, where Scotland has the legal status of a colony. The Scottish Govt / Holyrood Scottish Parliament is only a client Kingdom of the Evil Empire.

Real power has always remained with UK Parliament.

The major issue is that, as a colony, Scotland can never achieve its full potential, it always has and always will get a raw deal.

Whoever is administering British rule at Holyrood on behalf of the UK Govt, makes little difference to that.

Pro-independence politicians should be leading the fight for Scotland’s freedom, instead of administrating colonial servitude.

SCOTROCK

Sadly I agree with Fionan and Cactus should stop his ramblings which contribute nothing to this site. As for Rock …. not impressed with you at all

CameronB Brodie

Another OT of the perspective kind.

Re-Doubling the Crises of the Welfare State: The impact of Brexit on UK welfare politics

Abstract

The double crisis approach distinguishes two kinds of challenge confronting modern welfare states: long-term structural problems and short-term difficulties resulting from policy choices which affect the success with which the long-term issues can be addressed. Structural challenges include two main areas:

โ€ข globalisation and technological changes demanding that governments direct attention to national competitiveness, and

โ€ข population ageing, requiring more spending on pensions, and health and social care.

Recent policy-related problems include the austerity programme since 2010 which has been particularly directed towards benefits and services for working-age people. Responses to both kinds of challenge have set the stage for Brexit.

link to cambridge.org

Economics of Brexit: the aftermath
link to ukandeu.ac.uk

European Structural Funds after Brexit
link to instituteforgovernment.org.uk

Petra

@ Socrates MacSporran says at 12:27 pm …. ”Between 1.31am and 6.22am, however, there were 49 btl comments posted, 43 of them from Cactus, and, to be honest, mostly pish.

I have questioned Cactusโ€™s contributions to this site before, and been assured by long-established and well-regarded regulars, that Cactus is kosher and, in Chewinโ€™ the Fats terms: โ€œa Good Guy.โ€

Fair enough, also, I would not expect too-much in the way of useful political comment on this, or any other serious site, between the hours of 1am and 6am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning โ€“ but, it makes you wonder.

Just suppose, a committed Winger had finally persuaded a soft No of his or her acquaintance to: โ€œCheck out Wings over Scotland and learn the truth which the msm isnโ€™t telling you.โ€

That soft No might well be impressed by the Revโ€™s usual excellent demolition of Labour pish, as in this post, but, they might then read Cactusโ€™s Saturday night havering and decide: โ€œNah! Iโ€™ll stick with No, much more sensible people.โ€

So, my message is: Cactus old boy; we accept you are pro-Independence, but, if you are tempted to post pish: please, either leave your mobile at home, or, go onto Off-Topic. Leave the main thread for mostly serious political discourse.”

…….

Spot on SMS.

Between those that come on here to encourage people to curse and swear (not to be found on any newspaper comment sections / decent sites such as WGD’s, Craig Murray’s etc) and the drivel being posted by people like Rock and Cactus this site is going right down the stank, imo.

Are they the role-models for an Independent Scotland? No way. Not only are they no doubt loosing us support they are also driving away many half-decent posters. What I see now is a site that has gradually been taken over by BritNats under the guise of supporting Independence with each and every one of them using a different type of persona / propaganda technique from ”SNP Baad” to I’m ”Jack the jolly lad” (or lassie).

I no longer recommend this site to anyone at all due to being totally embarrassed with the extremely negative feedback I received from those I encouraged to visit the site previously. Sad when you think of the hard work being put in here by Stu Campbell, people like Nana and a diminishing number of individuals who are doing their utmost to get the truth out there.

We’ve reached a profoundly critical juncture in our history in relation to attaining our Independence. These people are doing us no favours: In fact are totally undermining our cause at every turn. As we work our butts off, here and elsewhere, to convert just one person at a time, they are using this site to turn God only knows how many people right off. Time for individuals, if genuine Independence supporters, to clean up their act. As for the rest a mass clear-out wouldn’t go wrong.

jfngw

@ Dave McEwan Hill

They took no formal position but the letter that indicated the former UK would effectively be successor state and any country leaving ceding would need to reapply was used widely by the No camp. If they had wanted to remain neutral they could have replied that they had no comment at this stage.

There was no need for them to use this approach as ending the Treaty of Union (that would have been the result of independence) would have effectively ended the UK as the entity that joined. Logically this statement should also have been relevant to the rest of the UK.

They always seem to prefer the status quo.

And also as the EU has the UK by the cojones (as Ms Davidson would say) then they are in a position to extract almost anything from Westminster on the fishing grounds. Some countries may see no advantage to an independent Scotland, in fact they may consider that Holyrood will take a tougher stand on this than Westminster.

My post may look somewhat negative but in international relations we need to be realistic and watch out for being sold out, only we can truly look after our interests. It has always been the case.

jfngw

Interesting tweet from the Rev, seems DR are claiming their readership figures are a lie, nowhere near as claimed. Seems a weak argument to me.

They seem to forget the Dugdale/Wings story has been widespread on social media also, this is the result of their article. It’s all cumulative, they can’t get out of this that easily, in my opinion anyway. It was their butterfly effect that set off the storm.

Graf Midgehunter

Breeks says:

“Do not look to Europe to do for us that which we wonโ€™t even do for ourselves. The onus is 100% on Scotland to change the recognised status of our government so that Scotland the Nation has Legal Personality, and can negotiate internationally.

Everything the EU has provisionally offered Scotland, such as transitional holding pen status, is predicated by Scotland asserting its constitutional sovereignty. SCOTLAND MUST MAKE THE FIRST MOVE. Until we do, until we provide the EU with a sovereign interface, Europeโ€™s hands are tied. It is our inaction which ties them.”
——————————————–

I agree with you.

The EU would like to be able to say and do a lot more, esp. having learned a lot more over the last three years about the true situation regarding Scotlands constitutional relevance.

But, no independence or at least one in the offing then it’s still the UK is the Member…. etc. etc.

I’m a bit wary or apprehensive about a referendum because WM will do everything, legal or illegal, to win it. There are way too many possibilities to cheat and steal the result. So it can’t be a “Charge of the Light Brigade” thing.

We should, IMO also be making more use of the sovereignty which we still possess to try and induce a parallel line of attack. There are many ways to skin a cat so we should at least be trying other alternatives at the same time. The courts, ECJ. etc.

Nicola hasn’t divulged much if anything about what’s going on in secret talks/background negotiations with the EU. At least not to me..!

Capella

Comment – please read this page for comment rules.

2. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).

And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully โ€“ but argue with peopleโ€™s views, donโ€™t insult them personally. And that includes calling them โ€œtrollsโ€ or implying theyโ€™re undercover Unionists. Weโ€™ll decide if someoneโ€™s trolling or not. But in the meantime, if you think they are, ignore them.

If you know what a โ€œtrollโ€ is, then youโ€™ll also know that getting you angry and talking about them, derailing the conversation off the subject, is exactly what they want.

Email us about suspected trolls if you want. But donโ€™t engage them in debate if you doubt their motives, and DEFINITELY donโ€™t engage in on-thread discussions about whether theyโ€™re a troll or not.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

Hamish100

mac says:
30 December, 2018 at 1:34 pm
Hamish 100
Cactus is not my buddy,,,but he is also not my enemy.
If you have issues with certain contributors then I would suggest you take it up with the site owner,,,,and not take up valuable space by posting your complaints on the open forum,,,where we have absolutely NO power to do anything about him.
Simple!!!

MAC — valuable space is used up by you know who- post after post of nauseum. Even asking for someone to xxxxx with him. Sorry, not appropriate in my book. As for posting open discussion is good. Preferable pro independence which I usually try and discuss with others or maybe disagree with more. In all honesty as with other posters above do we really want folk to continually scroll by to the point of not participating on WoSc? This site is too important.
It would be a great pity for a proportion of existing readers and potential ones are turned off as a result. Just my view.

Fireproofjim

This is a pro-independence site.
Cactusโ€™s drunken ramblings contribute nothing to our cause, are not serious, amusing or witty and can only turn off visitors to Wings.
43 posts last night! What a lot of self indulgent rubbish. He may support independence but a little self restraint would would not go amiss.
Wings is our most valuable independence supporting site and is a jewel in the dross of the main stream media. Cactusโ€™s boring nonsense is devaluing Wings.

mac

Wings has always had a wide range of characters, including Cactus.

So back off and let anyone who wants to post on here go right ahead.

The alternative is for people who want to live in an Indy echo chamber to open up their own website and call it “No other opinions will be accepted except mine,OK”.

Problem solved,,,and you could also have the pleasure of blocking characters like Cactus.

Heart of Galloway

Petra@4.02. I could not agree more, although Cactus and his night wanderings through Glasgow with his spirit guide is the least of the issues.
This site is beyond compare as a resource for the independence movement.
The quality of the Rev’s articles, the informative links and cogent btl comments boost morale and sharpen arguments for winning over erstwhile no voters.
Everything hinges on succeeding in the latter task, which most of us on here doubtless have been trying to do.
There are many folk against us in 2014 now open to being persuaded to switch to yes.
They may visit this site because the answers they seek will never be found through the MSM.
So what they read should help, not hinder them on their journey of discovery.
Therefore, I agree with the comments above there are *ahem* contributors on here who should never get near Wings.
The fakers and those taking juvenile delight in exposing them are equally as bad.
Time to restore Wings the gold standard of demolishing unionist lies and distortion.

yesindyref2

Jings, I just had the misfortune of reading – during the day when posts are usually more interesting – 50 or more postings talking about postings. There were about 6 actual postings.

After say 9pm the utility decreases until about 7 am. That’s quite normal, frankly, for a lot of forums. There’s just a few of us talk abot UKSC cases or whatever during the early night watch.

But today peak time reading has all been about – off-peak posts.

And mine too is a +1 waste of space posting.

K1

I see aw the moderators showed up the day. Good boys and girls, perfect little prefects.

Sigh…It’s not any of your ‘job’s’ to decide who can and can’t post and what they can and can’t post on a Wings article, plenty of comments go off topic repeatedly.

But thanks for sharing the same old ‘repetitive’ pish that you all do…time and time again…but we aw huv to put up wi that too. So in the immortal wurdz of the BBC….Wings must be getting it just right in the balance of those who don’t give a fuck what others think and those who insist that those that don’t give a fuck ‘should’ give a fuck what others think.

Have a lovely Hogmanay folks. Peace and Love to aw the Wingers and aw the Lurkers…and if you are ‘put off’ Scotland’s ‘right to self determination’ by a few fuck’s and other ‘adult’ exchanges…may I gently suggest you were never ‘for it’.

๐Ÿ™‚

jfngw

Oh I see historywoman wants foreign independence supporters to be refused settled status in Scotland (whole UK probably). Presumably this is because we need some lebensraum for the true Brits supporters. If we vote for independence I wonder if they will call on the UK government to save them, a kind of Scotdetanland to them.

yesindyref2

Maybe the answer is to have “opening hours”, and for @Rev to have a one-liner at the top:

“Between 7am and 9pm please keep your postings useful. After that, knock yourselves out!”

That means readers know what to expect – and posters.

jfngw

Just to add, not sure if her books are now a chronicle of Nazism or a eulogy. After all who can forget her racist retweet!

robertknight

Is Brit-Nat Yoonatic, mad as a box of frogs, hysteri-wimmin still on the go?

I thought she was dead!!!

jfngw

@yesindyref2

Are you suggesting an Archon Festival period for those that are not of the body?

Famous15

A compilation of the thoughts of Cactus would deserve a nomination for a Nobel prize for literature.

The major flaw of Unionism is the fact that it drives people to drink.

yesindyref2

Anyways, this is quite a disturbing article in The National, from one of our own:

link to thenational.scot

By Christian Allard

I hope he does make the effort to do the iniquitous barbaric xenophonic Home Office settlement application thing, we need people like him, whether Independent or shackled at the knees in the UK.

Some of our best people are of French origin, Beligan, Polish, Dutch, German, Italian, or … or English like Mike Russell, one of Scotland’s main Champions, joint National politician of the year with Keith Brown (who I think is Scots born).

Robert J. Sutherland

Adding my ha’penny’s worth to the ongoing debate about the quality of postings, I have always tried (though sometimes failed) to make my postings commensurate with the high quality of Stu’s articles, since it seems to me their goal is the same, namely to reinforce the knowledge and morale of supporters and – even more importantly – to win over the uncommitted neutral visitor to this important cause.

So to me Petra’s observation about visitors being turned off by what they encounter btl has great force. There is a significant – and growing, it would seem – degree of irrelevant and off-putting self- indulgence, hate-mongering and negativity from a small group of the usual suspects, who either through misplaced enthusiasm or darker motives, are choking up every thread now. “Scroll by” is fine advice for the occasional bit of drivel or ripe language, but you just can’t expect the casual visitor to do that a lot and come back. To all our loss.

I can only appeal to all the off-topic zoomers – and you kntow who you are – to restrict your effusions to off-topic where they properly belong. We really need this site to be able to reach out effectively to the uncommitted.

This site is important, and deserves to be treated with due resoect.

galamcennalath

robertknight says:

Is Brit-Nat Yoonatic, mad as a box of frogs, hysteri-wimmin still on the go?

What will these BritNats do after Indy? We must assume since they are so fanatically keen on London rule they will move somewhere still ruled by London! The paradox is of course, England doesn’t seem well dispose towards ‘refugees’ these days! They might actually find iScotland has its attractions after all.

geeo

Just reading about how singer, Ariana Grande, was offered a Damehood due to her compassion towards the young victims of the Manchester Bombing at her concert.

She refused it, quoting that it just did not feel right when people, including herself, are still grieving and struggling to come to terms with what happened.

Sky then offered “9 people who said No” to honours

link to archive.li

Howard Gale (Liverpools first black player) summed it up to perfection as below…
………

He was nominated for his work with Show Racism A Red Card, but turned it down because “my ancestors would be turning in their graves after how empire and colonialism had enslaved them”.

………

‘Nuff said.

Fergus Green

link to thenational.scot

Allez Christian! Dinnae pay. We’ve got your back.

yesindyref2

It IS the festive season you know, and some people like a couple of drinks, or a couple of dozen. Even during the year, 9pm is a bit of a watershed [1] for some people.

[1] Alcohol is quite diuretic …

Merry Humbug!

mac

The right of free speech will not be tolerated on Wings Over Scotland…

By order of the Heavies,,,OK ya bass !!!

Lighten up chaps and chapesses.

Republicofscotland

Labour are just as much our enemy as the Tories or Lib/Dems. They’ll prevaricate at every turn in an attempt to do down the SNP government, is it any wonder then that Labour in Scotland is seen as a uncredible party by the electorate.

mac

Being a fellow Glaswegian I can relate to the many streets Cactus walks down,,,so maybe I am a bit biased.

jfngw

@Republicofscotland

It’s not the fact that Labour wants to down the SNP, they are a political party that’s really what I expect them to do. My problem with Labour along with the other two is that there only policy is ‘Keep Scotland British’ there is nothing else.

They have no vision for Scotland beyond this, they would accept any hardship to retain this. I could never vote for any party that’s reason for existence is to keep my country governed by another.

Hamish100

K1 says:
30 December, 2018 at 5:48 pm
I see aw the moderators showed up the day. Good boys and girls, perfect little prefects.
Sighโ€ฆItโ€™s not any of your โ€˜jobโ€™sโ€™ to decide who can and canโ€™t post and what they can and canโ€™t post on a Wings article, plenty of comments go off topic repeatedly.
But thanks for sharing the same old โ€˜repetitiveโ€™ pish that you all doโ€ฆtime and time againโ€ฆbut we aw huv to put up wi that too. So in the immortal wurdz of the BBCโ€ฆ.Wings must be getting it just right in the balance of those who donโ€™t give a fuck what others think and those who insist that those that donโ€™t give a fuck โ€˜shouldโ€™ give a fuck what others think.
Have a lovely Hogmanay folks. Peace and Love to aw the Wingers and aw the Lurkersโ€ฆand if you are โ€˜put offโ€™ Scotlandโ€™s โ€˜right to self determinationโ€™ by a few fuckโ€™s and other โ€˜adultโ€™ exchangesโ€ฆmay I gently suggest you were never โ€˜for itโ€™.

Upset some folk because we can write some words without using the f word. Blame a guid Scots education for that and some teachers who said if you can’t speak without effen and blinding best keep your mooth shut! As for adult exchanges I am aware that this can be read by young folk who want to be persuaded to vote YES at the next independence vote. I’m up for independence having attended my first SNP meeting over 40 years ago. Don’t wish our chance lost by some folk who judge adulthood by how often they can curse. I sure many past that stage around 3rd year in Secondary school.

So no hard feelings can we leave OT to OT and get back to debating Independence and how to avoid Brexit, reduce poverty, improve the NHS, remove nuclear weapons, defeating the unionist parties. You get my drift. Have a guid Hogmanay!

schrodingers cat

Im glad people here realise that when it comes to the eu making public announcements about an indy scotland, its hands are tied. even the few eu meps etc who do voice support dont get any mention in the msm.

those that voice even the most minor objection to an indy scotland joining the eu are given wall to wall front page coverage. (see barrossa in indyref1)

it is a shit state of affaires, no question, but this is the terrain upon which we will fight for independence.

if we had a fair msm, support for indy would be in the 70+% by now.

yesindyref2

@cat
It’s one of the reasons even getting near to the end of Indy Ref1 I was still posting like “YES 75%, NO 25%. Once the journalists and politicians see we’re past the turning point, they’ll be onboard like ferrets up a trouser leg “I always really supported Indy, just needed convincing it would work, but now I’m convinced”. In my opinion there were a few on the cusp, and some backing it both ways.

Well, welcome to YES !!!

Tinto Chiel

What K1 said at 5.48.

Some of those contributors who wish to do Stu’s job for him on the censoring front seem unaware that their own comments could be seen as repetitive, sententious pap and often irrelevant to the content of The Rev’s article, but others don’t ask for them to be silenced.

This is the silly season as well as the festive one and we’re not exactly in the throes of an independence campaign, so surely a bit of tolerance should be exercised for some seasonal exuberance.

It’s up to our host to decide who gets on here.

K1

Hamish

Your’e not the effin moderator

Nor the moderator’s son

If there’s any effin moderating

The Rev will get it done

—————————-

Have a guid yin.

Hector

Breeks – thank you for your recent posts which have been interesting and relevant and the most stimulating of discussion over the past few weeks. I have been interested in Mark McNaught’s contribution to the debate about the Constitution for Scotland and the support for this publicised by Indycar Gordon Ross. However, there is an interface I think between your position of asserting sovereignty through legal avenues and the sovereignty of the Scots or People of Scotland. Surely, they are one and the same. However, I am interested in a precise definition of “sovereign Scot” in relation to people born, living, working (paying taxes) in Scotland and their right to determine the future of the country. Is this a political issue or a constitutional issue? Bit of a clumsy question, I know. But trying to think my way through what we mean by Scottish sovereignty and how this relates to our next referendum question, which, for me is, Who Governs Scotland? Westminster or Holyrood and who determines this….who are the sovereign Scots?

fillofficer

a cactus is a prickly plant
does wot is says on the tin
wings patrolling nightwatchman
keep on, man

yesindyref2

If there was to be an appointed “in-thread moderator council of four”, I’d probably go for Capella, Tinto Chiel, Thepnr and K1″.

And then I’d tell them all to eff off ๐Ÿ™‚ 😎

Daisy Walker

One of the reasons btl is not as informative as it was 1 or 2 years ago, is that the establishment has learnt its lesson.

There is now a drowt, where before we had a Murphy, a Better Together, a Dugdale…. now there is …. nothing – nothing to ridicule, nothing to hit back at, nothing to get our teeth into.

This is deliberate. Don’t look at the bozos ‘in charge’ at Westminster, behind them, there are some very capable people pulling the strings, and they have the wealth of the colonies to defend and the cash cow of Scotland to keep.

And the second reason there is a drowt of information below the line, is that every positive piece of info we could divulge about Indy for Scotia, and much of the dishonest and downright bad stuff done to us – has already been said, many, many times, and ways, often very eloquently.

And there is Brexshit, brexshit and bad, grinding on and on, and now becoming genuinely threatening and bad.

And we are running out of time.

Peace and love to all.

Liz g

Yesindyref2 @ 7.07
I’ll say wan thing fur ye…
Yer ambitious…. Where would ye like the pieces put?

hackalumpoff

Interesting quote from Kofi Annan the late Secretary-General of the United Nations.

“My generation of Africans has learned the hard way that no state can truly be called democratic if it offers its people no escape from poverty, and that no country can truly develop so long as its people are excluded from power.”

K1

As for this bit Hamish:

‘Donโ€™t wish our chance lost by some folk who judge adulthood by how often they can curse’

Spare me the holier than thou pish take on what ‘you’ think is going to lose us ‘our chance’ at gaining our independence.

It literally beggars belief that someone with any kind of guid Scottish education can think in such patently stupid terms. This is actually a sentence ‘you’ wrote on an open forum.

It is you who are judging others because they can use swear words and judging them ill educated too because of this? I have literally posted many links pointing out, and anyone with a smidgeon of intelligence is aware of the ‘fact’, that swearing is ‘not a sign of ill education, nor of any kind of signifier of a ‘lesser human being’

But you reveal with such comments, your own ignorance and intolerance and dare I say inability to get over how you were ‘instructed’ to think about such matters when you repeatedly post the same tired rhetoric wrt to others who ‘you’ are judging in such low terms.

It is as if you don’t want others to be free to express themselves according their own nature and that makes you an oppressor, someone who believes ‘intrinsically’ that they hold a higher ground because they don’t use the word fuck occasionally or any other ‘curse’ word.

Please do try to work through some of your own issues in this regard, so that I am not brought down to your level in having to explain to you the abject failure of your own intellect in assessing others on such flawed and superficial criterion.

It’s tiresome for me to have to lower myself to correct your misguided, ignorant immature brainwashed level of engagement on here. But…it is the season to be jolly…so I don’t mind playing with you for a moment or so before I get back to more high brow fucking engagement wi those that can appreciate a good fuck…or two.

๐Ÿ™‚

Tinto Chiel

@yesindyref2 7.07: just so ๐Ÿ˜‰

Your jokes are still crap, btw.

๐Ÿ˜›

yesindyref2

@Liz g
I might need to duck and run for cover ๐Ÿ™‚

Hamish100

k1 – nice mountain.

I see you are a bit like rock , copy paste. Still keeps you occupied.

I am now an oppressor? Gies us a break will you? Reading to many pamphlets from the 1960’s?

Happy for you to debate but you obviously cannot without cursing. As for intellect, please go and seek some!!

Still, thanks for proving my point. lol

Power to the masses!

mac

Watching one of those World at War documentaries today and didn’t realise that in the Far East the Japanese were actually offering Independence to all of the English Colonies out there with their own hand picked administrators if they agreed to end English Rule.

That is why the English fought so hard to hang onto them,,,they knew Independence was coming to every one of them.

And that is why shortly after the end of WW2 so many Colonies gained there Independence.

And I detest the Butchers Apron so much that I actually enjoyed seeing it being lowered for the last tine in so many lucky countries.

Let’s hope Scotland is an ex Colony in the not too distant future.

jfngw

I see it’s frivolous post night, so here is my Shania Twain tribute

Let’s go!

Don’t wantcha for the weekend, don’t wantcha for a night
We’re only interested if you want to be Scottish for life, aye
Uh, I know we sound serious; and really, we are
We’re a fine piece of real estate, and we’re gonna get us our land
Och, aye

So, don’t try to run, buddy; indy can be fun
There’s no need to be alone when you find your Scottish

We’re gonna getcha while we’ve gotcha in sight
We’re gonna getcha if it takes all night
You can betcha by the time we say “go, ” you’ll never say “no”
We’re gonna getcha; it’s a matter of fact
We’re gonna getcha, don’tcha worry ’bout that
You can bet your bottom dollar, in time we’re gonna be fine
Just like we should – We’ll getcha good

Valerie

@ K1

Jist you fucking post any way you bloody want! I know you will!

Meantime, anyone not sick to death of this fucking govt, look at this latest manifestation of their uber stupidity. They awarded these 3 Ferry contracts, without tendering, which is pretty underhanded (they cite it requires emergency action due to unforeseen circumstances)

Now turns out one of the companies has no ferries, and dredging of Ramsgate harbour doesn’t begin until January.

Taking the piss on a daily basis.

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