Sometimes we can hardly stand it
Okay, we’ll make this quick.
– Why do £73 and £4.50 both appear to actually be £4? Why would you illustrate two radically different sums of money – the difference being the whole point of the exercise – by using identical sums of money? Are you morons?
– That’s not even the top and bottom 20%. You’d need 20 coins in the stack for four of them to be 20%, but you’ve got 17. What you’ve illustrated there are the top and bottom 23.529%. Did you run out of cash or something?
– If you’re talking about the “top 20%” of families, then presumably that’s a little over a million people in Scotland. That’s an odd definition of “the richest few”.
– “The SNP’s £125m tax giveaway?” And what is it that YOU plan to do with the money instead? Oh yeah, that’s right – you’re going to give it away too. Except you’re not going to give ANY of it to the poorest people, because the poorest people can’t save up thousands of pounds for mortgage deposits.
– (Also, haven’t you been telling us it was actually £250m? And that it was a tax cut for “the aviation industry”, rather than being for people at all?)
– Rather than give high-earning families £73 a year, you want to give them £6000 in free cash towards buying a house. At £73pa that’s over 82 YEARS of annual holidays, more than most people will take in their lifetime. Your plan is far more generous to the wealthy and far less generous to the poor than the SNP’s.
– APD is a flat-rate tax. The minimum per person is £13, so if we’re talking about a typical family of four that’d be at least £52 for a single flight. So to get a £4.50 figure our bottom 20% of families must only be having a holiday once every 12 years. Have you let Richard Baker have a go on the calculator again?
Otherwise, top-grade work as ever. Good luck counting your votes.
Drat you’ve posted again just when I “needed” to go and lie down. 🙂
I’m laughing so much again that I doubt I will get to sleep, Labour the cybernats are coming. I hope you can’t sleep either.
Is it wrong of me to feel a wee bit sorry for them?
It’s like bringing up an idiot child who never learns from their mistakes. I kinda look on in wonder while thinking ‘bless’.
Next Labour in Scotland behavioural tic? The tantrum.
Once again, the Stupid… it burns!
Great work as usual Stuart but I think you’ll find Labour have already counted their votes.
“Good luck counting your votes.”
Thanks Stuart.I needed a good laugh.
The yellow jester does not play
But gently pulls the strings
And smiles, as the puppets dance,
in the world of ScotLab’s flings…
R-type Grunt
Counted, and in the post.
Has someone telt Kezia it is a tax passengers pay and NOT a tax on airlines? Or is that too much to hope for?
NUMBERWANG!
“Good luck counting your votes.”
It’s fine, they’ve got 10 fingers.
But, but, but…you said APD didn’t exist.
Labour really are off their trolly
Its as if they really don’t understand how the APD tax is worked
First they kept hammering out that it was a tax paid by ‘big airlines’ and any reduction, would mean a tax cut to ‘big airlines’
They seem to have realised that was utter bollocks, so now trying to make out that only the well off fly, ignoring the fact that regardless of income, the ticket you buy has a flat fee APD.
They still haven’t grasped the fact that reducing APD or getting rid of it will encourage more airlines to fly into Scotland and opening up export markets for Scottish companies
Arithmetic is not their strong point.
Labour thought sleeping with Tories and winning the Referendum guaranteed next to no SNP MPs at Westminster.
I think I know why they only used £17……is it still £1 to join Scottish Labour?
There is a need for a debate on cutting APD and whether it is a good way of spending £125m … but Labour’s “contribution” is hardly it. Absolutely risible.
Colin Church
NUMBERWANG!
Just snorted my tea out my nose. Brilliant!
Again Slab fail miserably to grasp any economic reality.
There is no way, that these (SLab) idiots can be allowed anywhere near the reigns of power, for all our sakes.
SNP x2
THEY COULD PROBABLY SPELL “REINS OF POWER”, THOUGH.
Yes Labour, that is the sound of people laughing at you.
Even after being pathetic all this time, people find it hard to pity such evil, self serving bastards.
Anybody seen the 3 ‘Nuggets’ ?
Cheers Rev. :-))
Excuse me stating the bleeding obvious, but doesn’t cutting APD actually help the less well off more than it does the richer amongst us ?
Taking £60 ish off the cost of a holiday for a family of 4 means diddlysquat for the well off, but every little helps for us poor in these austere days.
It’s all a cunning plan by the SNP to turn Prestwick into a Schipol type hub anyhoo.
Doesn’t even mention the other side of the equation.
Increased tourism for Scotland means increased spending in the economy.
Look at Europe alone. 5 million Scots, 500 million Europeans.
The potential for inflows with cheaper flights is more than the potential for outflows.
Reins, arse. My apologies, too much rum, a poor excuse I know.
Personally I would welcome increased tourism.
Edinburgh is buzzing during the festival. It would be nice if tourism was boosted all year round.
Imagine we could double tourism: Busy attractions. Thriving pubs, shops, hotels. Attractive women. Pictures of Scotland all over facebook. Hopefully when it’s not pissing down.
Increases our potential for connections and trade.
The number of times Kezia has spent APD, we should just dub her the ‘Airy Fairy’.
“APD is a flat-rate tax”
Which means that it costs less well off people a greater percentage of their incomes than more well off people.
For example, if my income is £10,000 per year and I take 8 Band A flights per year, I will pay £104.00 in APD (£13.00 X 8 = £104.00), or 1.04% of my income.
If my income is £100,000 per year and I take 8 Band A flights per year, I will pay £104.00 in APD, or 0.104% of my income.
Have Scottish Labour actually found out how many voters give a flying one about airport tax? Perhaps a question for next survey?
Shiny shinies for rich peeps, dull hodden grey for unwashed paupers. Spent more time on that image than their arithmetic, eh?
You’d have thought Labour would have got rid of that wonky calculator by this time – except of course the calculator is probably working properly but the Labourite pressing the keys isn’t.
Doing the sums is the easy bit – it’s figuring out the way to do the calculation that’s the hard bit.
After all Pythagoras became very famous for thinking out his theorem – not for doing the actual sums to calculate the mass of a body.
Rev, you’re on a loser. You are never going to teach Labour how arithmetic works. Even John Swinney lost the place with them the other day because they just don’t understand anything connected with money. Just sympathise with their plight and let them enjoy the fantasy world they live in. Hopefully May will bring relief to the rest of us.
You spot all the little things that matter (ie: graph thing) as well as systematically demolishing all the waffle.
Seriously well done again.
PS:
Scotland should be exempted from the scope of Westminster’s Trade Union Bill, MSPs on Holyrood’s devolution committee have ruled.
The committee said there was “widespread opposition” to the bill and called on the UK government to exclude Scotland from its reach.
Only the one tory on the committee was against… it’s reserved to Westminster.
Marwick agrees…pity! But go ahead anyhow I say 🙂
But it’s a chance to see MSP Kelly getting turfed out again. So I never archived.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35316988
it’s a hopeless attempt at saying the ‘SNP are for the rich, Labour are for the poor*’
*but don’t look at the details
Labour (Scottish branch) have become dust, nothing even, just a background whine in the swirling wind of change. No policies, no vision, just smear, kept on life-support by the MSM.
@Mark
“Your point is caller?”
Four tins of beans is £2.60 still costs the same whether your on £10,000 or £100,000 per year.
We are all aware the those on £100K per year can afford more beans just as they can afford more flights.
If you believe you have a solution for a more equitable system of taxation, please share it with Kezia. You may be better off writing to her directly rather than lecture people on Wings. I’m guessing she could do with all the help she can get right now.
@Robert Peffers
Archimedes I suspect you meant. Pythagorus was that other bloke, ken. No worries 🙂
We can all see how stupid this is BUT how does that graph look to the average Daily Record reader and what impression do they come away with?
Exactly and that is why Labour do it.
Scottish Labour:
1. Too wee
2. Too poor
3. TOO STUPID!
Magnificent article but should also mention they have spent the APD money (which doesn’t actually exist anyway as it generates no new money) at least three times already.
And to think these people were in charge for so long, no wonder things went topsy turvy.
They lost the trust of the voters good n proper, goodbye liebour.
@Thepnr
If mass is defined as that coefficient which relates to the force which must be applied to produce a specified acceleration rate then then I think we are looking at Galileo.
However, in terms of realising that mass is additive, i.e that n objects of the same mass m, together have a mass of n X m then that goes back to antiquity as attested by the existence of ancient balance scales.
Archimedes was more about density.
However you are right to point out the Pyhthagorians simply used the quite possibly already recognised observation that the square of the hypotenuse of a right angled triangle was equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides. Nothing to do with mass.
Oh Jeez, they’ve let Jackie Baillie loose on a calculator again.
@Chic McGregor
There is nothing in the Universe more dense than oor Kezia and nothing more massive than oor Jackie.
I rest my case.
@Thepnr
I’m reminded of the ‘Taysiders in Space’ skit.
Thinking particularly of the bit after the ‘It’s a richt hooer o a thing Captain, Twa sizes bigger ‘n us ken?’ Except I now picture the crocodilically smiling JaBa on the screen saying ‘SNP bad, SNP bad, SNP bad’ rather than the alien they used. With the crew having the final word, in chorus, “Ach, awa an dinnae talk pish!”.
Mark says:
18 January, 2016 at 12:30 am
“APD is a flat-rate tax”
Yes, but how could you really make APD progressive ?
Should the cost of flights be tailored to wealth?
Wealthy people already pay more in income tax and council tax – a far more significant chunk out their income than flights.
Higher tourism to Scotland results in increased trade and jobs for airports, shops, restaurants, taxis, hotels etc.
For outward tourism, cheaper flights might mean a low income family can afford a holiday in the sun.
I bet the forks in the Labour Party HQ canteen, have corks on the end of them to protect users from self-injury….Ruprecht!
Are ‘Scottish’ Labour the embodiment of London’s ambitions to control Scotland? A shambles who are either being dishonest by design or are simply dighted.
Saying that, the graphic may have been outsourced, so is perhaps more an example of poor quality control. Either way, it’s not a good look.
What a load of old joaby. You couldn’t make this up. Ignoring however the duff scaling of the coins, the dubious figure of £4.50 for the bottom quartileand the fact that the cut is a tax cut to people and not the aviation industry, the percentages show that the majority of folk (60%) will save around £40. This really is a load of joaby that you couldn’t make up. No wonder Labour arecunekectable
Yes, and with tosh like this, it’s difficult to imagine how any of these Labour numbskulls will be employable after next May’s mass cull of numpties.
Rev Stu
“Good luck counting your votes.”
I thought they weighed them?
maybe this will help
http://www.dhresource.com/260×260/f2/albu/g1/M00/1A/17/rBVaGFZqCJWAAvS2AAHJUsm-kQY255.jpg
Cameron B
“I bet the forks in the Labour Party HQ canteen, have corks on the end of them to protect users from self-injury….Ruprecht!”
Who left the attic door unlocked?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUiXJ4ZIOEE
jimnarlene
“Reins, arse. My apologies, too much rum, a poor excuse I know.”
Eh don’t you mean Rhum? 😉
Robert Peffers and The pnr:
I suppose if any regular on here can say this, I can – Pythagaros, Archimedes, Ah kent their faithers, and, oany wey, it’s awe Greek tae me.
Abolish of APD will generate growth and raise enough money to pay for tax credits for less well off people (the vulnerable, one parent families women and children) AND enough to mitigate the tax loss. Why can’t the Labour dunces see that. Or is it just a great kid on. Flogging a dead goat or a pig’s head. More direct flights will cut out overnight stays and save money.
On the Unionist calculations no wonder the UK is £1.5Trn in debt. Westminster Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. Pig suckers leeching £10Billion a year from Scotland, for policies the majority in Scotlland did not vote.
Why does London have to have the biggest airport in the world Heathrow, with half empty flights. Why does one of the smallest countries have to have the biggest airport. Migration is caused by bombing the Middle East. Harrassing people with mental health issues and inadequate provision, except prison. They should be dropping aid not bombs for starving people. That would help stop terrorism.
If George Osbourne used the same trick with APD tax money as scottish labour does, he could wipe out the UK debt nae problem.
fantastic stuff….. 🙂
I think I have the answer though.
If you remove two and a half fingers ( spread across both hands) and count them twice you get 17.
Now if you kinda forget about the missing ones it would be easy to assume 4 makes 20%.
So Slabs head accountant has lost a few fingers and has a poor memory.
Seemples.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
18 January, 2016 at 12:09 am
THEY COULD PROBABLY SPELL “REINS OF POWER”, THOUGH.
They could probably spell RAINS OF PISH, but that would’nt convince Voters either.
Wan thing they wont be spelling is a SHOWER OF VOTES.
An anither hing , they’re Printer didnae hiv enough £1 coins in hiv pocket. Whit did you,s expect SLAB tae send their ain money tae ah Printer ( petty cash drawer empty ), same as their current account.
Every time I think Labour hit bottom they prove me wrong.
As the Rev has shown not only is the structure of the advert pathetic the principle arguement is also utter crap.
Labour Scottish branch want to stop a reduction in APD, which will probably trigger a four fold increase in tourism spending and instead give it to wealthy savers OR the kids of wealthy parents.
…imagine that lot getting their hands on the Scottish budget once again ((((shiver))))
SLAB must hiv uaed the CRYSTAL MATHS calculator
Lets hear it for Joe Cocker. I Get High With A Little Help From My Friends, soon tae be X Friends.
The Labour campaigns first against APD being devolved at all, now against it being altered, make me really angry. It’s so transparent that they simply do not want Scotland to be allowed or able to compete with London.
The UK has the highest APD anywhere in Europe, because the London hubs are able to bear that. It means airports across the rest of the UK, but especially more remote ones like Scotland can’t compete, hence there are barely any direct flights to Scotland. That harms holiday-makers, families and business.
Ireland, being a normal, independent county not burdened with London-centric parties like SLAB and the Tories has been able to compete by cutting APD, hence Dublin is a very good international hub as well, bringing in business and tourists, and of course allowing people from Ireland direct international flights – it’s about half the price to fly to Dublin for a US connection than it is to fly to London.
Perhaps Labour think we’re all stupid, and we won’t notice that this is yet another campaign which is nothing to do with taxes raised and spent, or families, or business, but simply about making sure pesky Scotland isn’t able to compete with London and potentially do better for herself.
Good work again and agree with the comment that the Daily Rancid readers will swallow this garbage up as they are not capable of working out % .
That’s the main problem with trying to educate people to the truth, you can’t teach stupid, they are beyond reasoning and a lost cause. That’s why Slab got the votes it did for years.
All you can hope for is that at least 1 family member can somehow get through to them eventually.
Its like my young lad at Uni who says they are so many brainwashed liberals who cant hear anything bad about the establishment that he says it must be doctrinated from birth by the parents that he can’t even have a discussion about it without them trying to ridicule the statement of truth
@Clootie
Hit bottom? They could limbo dance under a slugs arse in a ditch, waving their arms wildly with bags of clearance.
Took one look at that and thought FFS, then immediately slapped myself in the kisser Barney Bear style.
Labour, insulting folk because they can.
Labour used to be famous for the politics of envy. Now it is the politics of dyscalculia.
Chic @ 12..28am
‘Airy Fairy’!! I like it!
Btw, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
O/T links
Police called after around 20 protesters occupy Donald Trump’s North-east golf complex
https://archive.is/GLtVq
Remove Scotland from Trades union bill…
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/95585.aspx#.dpuf
Britain’s renewable energy industry is about to ‘fall off a cliff’, says new research
https://archive.is/H0XIW
http://www.lbc.co.uk/colossal-pointless-toy-peter-hitchens-lets-rip-at-trident–123315
@
@Thepnr says: 18 January, 2016 at 12:57 am:
“@Robert Peffers
Archimedes I suspect you meant. Pythagorus was that other bloke, ken. No worries :)”
Or alternatively – right theorist but wrong theorem.
That’ll teach me not to post to Wings after waking up in the big chair in the wee sma hours while still dozy and only half awake. Apologies to all.
O/T links
Tony Blair ‘rejected Hillsborough inquiry as a favour for Rupert Murdoch’
https://archive.is/LAA4
The Prime Minister admits that elderly people perishing in cold homes is a ‘standing rebuke’.
https://archive.is/NNa8Q
Hatton Garden Heist leader ‘found sick pics of Tory child abuser’ in 1971 raid
https://archive.is/m6cyS
https://theferret.scot/scottish-peers-expenses/
Revealed: the hidden web of big-business money backing Europe and America’s pro-TTIP “think tanks
http://boingboing.net/2016/01/17/revealed-the-hidden-web-of-bi.
There’s a headline news item on the BBC website about the possibility of top level tennis players being paid to lose matches. The above article makes me wonder if Scotlab are being paid to lose elections. It’s the only logical explanation I can think of for the sheer idiocy of Scotlab nowadays.
This could lead to Dippity Dug becoming the
“Countless of DUMB arton” when its her turn to
join the rest of the Fat Cats in the House of Lords!
Seriously, I’d always help someone with learning difficulties
but a whole party that doesn’t have anyone in authority
who can read and count???
You regularly spell it out for them in Holyrood and here on their favourite web site and they cannot comprehend their stupidity.
The only possible reason for continuing with this nonsense is that they know that they are an empty shell and they just produce
these shock headlines for the socially excluded and their media pals
The leader of this little band of Indian’s Squaw “Dippity Dug”
must sign off this embarrassing rubbish!
“The Squaw leading the Labour abuse
is equal to the abuse by the other two sides ( Libs & Tory)
Pythagoras
Thepnr says:
“If you believe you have a solution for a more equitable system of taxation, please share it with Kezia. You may be better off writing to her directly rather than lecture people on Wings. I’m guessing she could do with all the help she can get right now.”
If you really do want to help her, then send her a colouring book with two crayons. One white and the other black.
That’ll tax her brain for a while. 🙂
Stop making sense WoS.
And so quick UKOK newsy read around, with Rancid The Graun, as they prep for Margaret Beckett’s Milliband autopsy
“First, we didn’t need a report to establish that “a failure to shake off the myth that the last Labour government was responsible for crashing the economy” was a critical factor in its defeat. This, above all else, explains why Labour badly lagged behind the Tories on economic credibility, however parlous a state the economy was in and however anaemic the growth.”
Its not a myth.
Hate to sound serious in all the mirth but The Dug couldn’t care less what we think about her nonsense…she is playing to the big audience in London. She knows she has no future in Scotland…but the Lords beckons…Lady Moan lit her light.
Play for time…play for time…play for time…play for time…she will be told by her handlers in London.
I’m a frequent flyer to London, in fact, I fly twice a week during busy times and once every two weeks on average – mostly for day trips leaving at 0705 and returning in the evening. It’s a long day 0430 to 2200, but I get paid a lot to do it.
My flights (with various corporate deals) cost about £400 return because I’m flying on the insanely busy flights in the early morning.
But removing APD will not save me any money; but it will save my business and my clients money which in turn will allow them to be more competitive and potentially employ more people. This is therefore a good thing.
Like it or not, to be competitive in Scotland in my business, I have to be in The City (London) because the UK is so centralised about London and the south east. In fact, this is my personal reason for supporting independence, to force businesses to spread out across the UK.
Note that the equivalent flights from London to Scotland are 1/2 to 2/3 of the price of going the other way (but why is that we Scots area always expected to fly to London for meetings?!)
I find this graphic fascinating and think it shows us just how bad things are for labour in Scotland:
If any professional organisation is releasing a graphic similar to the one above, they will decide the message they want to get across, then hand this over to graphic designers.
The graphic designers would then design the document using graphics that would for the layman, have a surprising amount of thought put into them.
The final draft will be agreed before the add is released.
What this latest Labour release seems to show, is that they have stopped using graphic designers,and are instead using someone (probably an intern with Photoshop skills) who they don’t have to pay a professional rate.
Is this the first real evidence of just how bad the finances of Labour are in Scotland?
We have read ‘high ranking Labour MSP’s’ tipping off the MSM that the Labour branch office in Scotland need hand-outs from the Westminster party to survive, but is this solid evidence of how that shortage of money is beginning to manifest itself?
C’mon folks, we are a nice bunch at Wings, so we can’t just sit by and watch our fellow Scots struggle like this.
I suggest we design some nice pamphlets for Labour, just to help them out like.
In fact, this is my personal reason for supporting independence, to force businesses to spread out across the UK.
Our red/blue tory chums in the south saw you coming.
From same Graun last GE autopsy above.
https://archive.is/K1xkM
“Third, there was “a fear among voters of the SNP propping up a minority Labour government”. One senior Unite official told me of a branch full of lifelong trade unionists and Labour supporters: “we can’t let the Scots run the country” was the mood.
The Tories and their allies very successfully whipped up anti-SNP resentment and English nationalism, combined with a sense that Labour had a weak leader who would be held over a barrel by a strong SNP committed to “breaking up the country”. How can such an onslaught be countered? Labour has to think hard, and now.”
@Callum
I feel your pain. I see the LCY flights packed to the gunnels and think of this resource being shifted back and forward every Monday and Thursday. It’s just nuts yet people are hard wired into thinking that the city of London is the only answer.
Isn’t APD only payable IF you fly? i.e. if you are too poor, then you can’t afford to fly anywhere anyway, so the APD is irrelevant. On the other hand, if you can afford to fly somewhere every weekend, then you are obviously not living in poverty, and can hence afford to pay APD.
Do MPs have to pay APD when they fly to London?
Macart @ 7.51 am.
“Labour, insulting folk because they can”.
And we all know why that is Mac. Because of the unstinting efforts of the M.S.M in never even trying to dissect their increasingly hysterical efforts to demonise the S.N.P.
If, I know, wishful thinking, there existed a fair and balanced media, then the unionist parties policy flaws would be exposed unmercifully. But, of course, that will never happen, because they are merely an extension of the Westminster establishment, and the thought of losing their cash-cow, and somewhere to park their weapons of mass destruction, is, to them, unthinkable.
As usual, the good news is that this rubbish aint having any effect on the doorstep. I’m still waiting for the Thomson/McGarry “scandals” to be mentioned,(by the way, what has happened to these inquiries?), so let them go their own way in their mistaken belief that their barmy ideas are having an effect.
Well I reckon that what “Scottish” Labour really want to do with the money “saved”!!, via A.P.D.,is to buy a ex fishing boat, thereby they will be able to follow the new Trident sub, which will not have any warheads on board, BUT Kezes fishing boat would have them, so all Scottish Labour will have to do is to shadow Trident untill it needs the warheads, nothing could be simpler eh?, don’t know what all the fuss is about .
@Effijy
Good observation Effigy taking the right angle on that post with very acute comments and not obtuse at all unlike labour.
I’ll get my triangular wire coat-hanger.
PS:
So what is Scottishness? asks Torrance in the Herald. Geez!
PPS:
“Are we going to play chasey” says wee Rennie adorned with a pot on his head in Moodie’s cartoon in The National.
Words of the day ‘Pishy pants’ says Kaye on the radio. 🙂
@Alex Beveridge
TBH Alex I doubt this nonsense is aimed at the more engaged public. I suspect this guff is aimed at retaining their core vote. Pretty much those who have no interest in voting any other way and would frankly believe anything released in their direction, so long as it had Labour branding attached to it.
This is about trying to out yoon the blue tories who as far as Labour are concerned the real electoral threat at this election. I suspect they’re working on the basis of ‘nobody wants to finish third’ in the race.
Make your mind up? Lest we put SLab back in power
From
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/kevin-mckenna-ever-feel-an-affinity-with-england-rock-on.12513
“Curiously, my appreciation of England, its people and its ways has probably done more than anything else to reinforce my conviction that Scotland can only ever be all that it can be by being in charge of its own destiny. I want Scotland to stand alongside this great nation beyond our southern borders; not a few steps below it.”
to
http://wingsoverscotland.com/yeah-that-definitely-seems-fine/
Doug Daniel says:
“It’s fine, they’ve got 10 fingers.”
But whit’ll they point with after they count the first five?
I agree that the graphic is pathetic. Sorry for whoever designed it, probably an intern as Patrick suggests. They could have had two stacks of coins to illustrate the point. Why are the paupers’ coins black?
Null points. Try again (they probably will, it’s still only January with another 3 and a half months to go) that APD can be used for many more purposes.
Good to have a laugh in the morning!
I chanced upon the Herald this morning and realised just how sadly I missed Ian Bell.
There is nothing for which I would recommend the disaster of a paper it has become – not even the crossword.
Designed by and for the consumption of idiots , someone commented just before the Referendum and predicted it would be a NO vote , and gave the reason , greed + self interest and stupidity ,his opinion was that a lot of Scots were ,well dumb he was castigated and shot down for this comment , have a look at this leaflet ,who is it directed at, this i believe is Labour in Scotland reverting to normal operational mode ,every single pronouncement recently follows the same pattern , this combined with this manufactured supposed dissent within the SNP , this push by the left where is this coming from ? is it just a coincidence this follows a budget increase in fluffys propaganda unit , this government propaganda surge is designed to eat away at support for the SNP from within , have a look at certain articles and supporting posts on the various social media sites recently , Bella seems to be the most affected , different tactics are being used beware of the Cuckoo in the nest.
So if each coin is supposed to represent 5% that means the 9 in the middle come to 45%. Maybe SLAB trying to send some kind of weird subliminal message. 🙂
@Dorothy Devine
My new year resolution holds.
No access to the herald on line this year. Even for the comments.
Again thanks to all the archivists on Wings.
SNP SNP in May.
Emm, maybe I am thick but if you are reliant on foodbanks, you will not be taking many flights to anywhere. So you will neither spend nor save one penny on APD. As so many have said this is a tax supposed to make people think twice before using a plane therefore a tax on those doing so. Can someone tell me how reforming this tax will bring in tourists, do they have to pay this tax to leave the country?
Trust Labour, still hoping we are all stupid, methinks only the stupid still are voting for them.
Another WOS classic article. Articles like that one are the very reason i encourage people to visit WOS for the truth.
Pamphlets and other bumff through the doors are a complete waste of time, effort and money.
WOS has it all, endless facts and copious amounts of laughter and the occasional lovers tiff, pure magic.
The Wee Blue Book aside, the best way to get the truth out there is to bring the folk in here.
Drag them kicking and screaming if you have to but i’d recommend purchasing some WOS business cards and then go on a feeding frenzy.
And when dealing with hardcore Unionists, folks, please remember this little gem of wisdom:
https://archive.is/YNy8R
Please give generously, give both votes to The SNP in May 2016.
Labour could check this BBC item on the top 1%. Cash or assets of £533,000 gets you into that category says Oxfam. Those Labour MPs who used expenses to help buy a London house would qualify.
Now that’s Labour’s way of helping the poor. Create a housing bubble!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35339475
Macart says:
“This is about trying to out yoon the blue tories”
Indeed. It’s like there are two parallel campaigns for May.
On the one hand we have the minor Indy parties trying to pinch SNP votes.
One the other we have Lab and Con competing for the dwindling Unionist vote.
The two sides of ‘the divide’ treated separately with their own set of parties!
The reality is, we on the Indy side need to see more people crossing over to our side. The SNP has made huge inroads. It is the smaller Indy parties who now need to go after not-too-committed Unionists, particularly Labour supporters.
@ Stoker
Nice graphic. But remember the rules of chess:
“A player who upsets the board is deemed to have forfeited the game.”
Thanks Ghillie.
Morning All,
Unbelievable, naw – they are just using Jackie Bailie’s – Idiots Guide to Arithmetic – Author’s Edition specially produced with a a handy ‘defective’ calculator. Add this to Jeremy going to build 4 new nuclear missile submarrines armed with Trident missiles without warheads – it’s like sending the Army into battle with only blanks for their rifles!! Don’t they realise that the biggest part of the £180 Billion cost is the building and running the boats???
You could not make all this up. If you did you would be accused of spouting SNP/BAD lies.
Auld Rock
@galamcennalath
“It is the smaller Indy parties who now need to go after not-too-committed Unionists, particularly Labour supporters.”
Couldn’t agree more. Rather than taking swipes at the SNP over ‘accountability’ (which is basically nicking a leaf out of the yoon play book), the smaller, younger parties should concentrate their fire on the fragmenting establishment vote. Learn to walk before running as it were.
There are plenty of independence sympathetic voters out there who, for whatever reason, simply will never vote for the SNP. They need to find an alternative home and the younger parties need to work on policy and appeal. There is an opportunity to be had there if they have the imagination and drive to make it work for them. If not? Then an opportunity goes a begging.
God education in Scotland must have been really bad if this is that standard of Labour’s education.
Love the four pounds make seventy howler.
Labour economics made easy.
Some light reading: https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2016/01/18/the-fire-hydrant/
Macart says:
“… the younger parties need to work on policy and appeal. There is an opportunity to be had there …”
The small new parties have a huge opportunity when independence comes, they need to work on being in a position to fully exploit that.
I suspect the Tories will quickly rebrand themselves, sail through Indy, and become established as the right wing of Scotland. They will want close ties to rUK and will present themselves as the party for those who still feel BritNat.
Labour (and LibDems) could simply disappear with no obvious role and their void filled by Greens, SSP, and others.
The symbolism is more telling of Labour mindset. The top coins are shiny bright,whilst the bottom coins are dirty and grubby.Is this how Labour view the disadvantaged.
Very telling.
Capella wrote:
“A player who upsets the board is deemed to have forfeited the game.”
Aye, right enough, that would be Slabour and their weasley
contributions to the referendum and subsequent Smith Commission.
*****GAME OVER*****
I think they must use the same calculator for all their numerical output.
We have this graphic – oh dear.
Their constant mistake of spending vague amounts of cash three times over.
Their membership number (who can tell what that is, regardless of what their scientific casio calculator says – probably safest to move the decimal point one place to the left)
Their funding (predicated on what the membership could be – or not)
Their estimation of just how many supporters agree with all their mad plans.
The number of days they have left before they vapourise in May.
Helena Brown says:
18 January, 2016 at 10:08 am
Emm, maybe I am thick but if you are reliant on foodbanks, you will not be taking many flights to anywhere.
The objective of reducing APD is to grow the economy which will create more jobs and less poverty.
Countries such as Ireland and Netherlands with previously high exit taxes found that removing them increased net tax take and created more jobs by growing the economy,so it’s a no brainer.
Yes,tourists do need to pay APD.
The tax is on the ticket price,hence the consumer pays it,not the airlines as lying Labour are trying to have us believe.
However, Government modelling has shown that any reduction of APD in Scotland would have a detrimental impact on airports and other travel businesses in other parts of the UK, and distort the highly competitive aviation and tourism market place.
Helena Brown says:
18 January, 2016 at 10:08 am
Can someone tell me how reforming this tax will bring in tourists, do they have to pay this tax to leave the country?
Ruby replies
According to
http://www.afairtaxonflying.org/facts/
‘Air Passenger Duty (APD) is the UK Government tax that is charged on all passengers departing from a UK airport’
It also states:
‘However, Government modelling has shown that any reduction of APD in Scotland would have a detrimental impact on airports and other travel businesses in other parts of the UK, and distort the highly competitive aviation and tourism market place.’
Obviously The British Labour Party’s number one interest is in the UK. They are as interested in what happens in Birmingham as what happens in Bathgate. Being that there are more English MPs in the Labour Party they are probably more interested in Birmingham than Bathgate.
There is no way The British Labour Party branch office would put Scotland first they wouldn’t be allowed to.
OT WGD made a good point … There are only three things left which promote Britishness … The BBC, the military and the monarchy.
This is very true. There used to be all sorts of UK wide institutions .. British Rail, National Coal Board, the GPO, and many more. All gone.
The BBC is trusted by less that half of Scots, by their own figures. Revelations about the Royals erode their status. The military as a whole is associated with failed imperial adventures and WMDs (though individuals still get due respect).
What has the Union left?
Robert Graham 9:58
Yes the recent Tunnock’s teacake nonsense reminded me that Clerkin always loves a staged media event, same thing he had with Jim Murphy, and to who’s advantage, and why the sudden need to wear yes t shirts and cover themselves with the Saltire when filming themselves?
This self publicity trait from the lunatic fringe only benefits one side, if you want to rubbish the independence movement then stand outside a biscuit factory, especially a Scottish owned one, that employs 500 people and shout your mouth off! Brother Boyd must be very grateful for all that free publicity, in fact I have a strange craving for a Carmel wafer now, I can imagine the taste as I bite down on the chocolate bar and taste the sweet caramel and crunchy biscuit!
Staged storm in a teacake benefits the unionist most; in fact I will go as far as to say it only benefits the unionist. And if I can see that, if I can understand that, then the perpetrators also can see and understand that.
As we move closer in the polls, we need to persuade those who’s background or beliefs see us as nutters at best or Nazis at worst, we need to bring them into the body of the Kirk, one Scotland, civic, proud and independent.
Mind you the Tories are also just as daft a times http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2015/12/7905 This must be the culmination of the SNPBAD theme. The lord of the dance!
Ruby, ‘What has the Union left?’
About 5 years 🙂
It occurs to me that “LABOUR DOESN’T COUNT” might be rather a nifty campaign slogan.
Sorry Ruby that was aimed at galamcennalath 🙁
dakk says:
“tourists do need to pay APD.
The tax is on the ticket price,hence the consumer pays it”
Yes. I thought the whole point of APD was to reduce it in the hope of stimulating growth in business and tourism by removing a tax in both.
The SG have very few “levers” to foster economic growth and this is one of the few currently available.
It’s not about personal tax burdens, as Labour disingenuously promote.
Of course as DevoFA-ists, SLab don’t believe in economic stimulation from Holyrood. That’s the job of the big parliament in London regardless of who is in power there.
Ruby 10:56
“Obviously The British Labour Party’s number one interest is in the UK. They are as interested in what happens in Birmingham as what happens in Bathgate”
I think you meant
Obviously The British Imperial Labour Party’s number one interest is in the UK. They are entirely interested in what happens in Birmingham and couldn’t give a fig what happens in Bathgate.
fixed it for you 🙂
Direct flights to Scotland and an increase in tourists is good for the economy not only on the mainland but onwards to the Highlands and Islands.
As for the giveaway, individuals who can afford houses up to £250000 are not poor. But maybe from a labourite this its normal.
The SNP seems to struggle to get the message out on APD.
Of course, a hostile MSM which reports every fart emitted by Labour and ignores everything else from anybody else doesn’t help – but even on several occasions at FMQ (where the message can’t fail to be heard at the time), Nicola has failed to explain WHY the SNP want to abolish APD.
Surely there is a stong case for it – a saving to Passengers, a boost to the Economy, and an opportunity to attract more direct flights to Scottish airports? That’s just off the top of my (non-brilliant) head.
So why is the case not being made and why is Labour being allowed to set the agenda on APD?
Labour in Scotland are not genetically programmed to make decisions on APD.
It’s obviously the situation that London Labour’s Scottish branch only recruit people who are not genetically programmed in Scotland to make political decisions.
Their ex leader openly admitted that this is the case.
‘However, Government modelling has shown that any reduction of APD in Scotland would have a detrimental impact on airports and other travel businesses in other parts of the UK, and distort the highly competitive aviation and tourism market place.’
I think when they say ‘distort the market place’ they mean ‘reduce the overwhelming dominance by the SE of England’.
The market couldnt get any more distorted, we are trying to make it LESS distorted.
HS2 will have a total,detrimental effect on the North and Scotland. £70Billion and all the disruption to build a train where the journey will only be 30mins faster to Manchester. (look at the small print) With normal delays 20mins faster with other delays slower). It will increase the journey time for onward travellers. They will have the inconvenience of getting off and getting on another train. Making journeys longer.
People in the North want their Cities connect as a priority, not another train south. Scotland needs it’s rail lines electrified to make journeys faster, as a priority. HS2 is going to have a detrimental effect on the North and Scotland. It is a waste of money. It will make train journeys throughout Britain longer. There is no business case or big enough market. Fares will be more expensive and it will always be subsidised with public money.
People will make more car journeys in the congested south (cheaper). More people will take flights in the North (quicker but more expensive). Some involving overnight stays. It takes a day (and a night?) to get through Hesthrow. It’s too big. The worse airport for customer experience. Anywhere but Heathrow. Quicker train journeys throughout Britain would be more convenient and comfortable journeys. Not spend a £70Billion+ on a disruptive ‘white elephant, waste of money.
Therevare another 8 people employed at the Scottish Office. Unionists employees to canvass against Scotland and Independence, using Scottish taxpayers money. Mundell should come out on that extra cost. Feeding the biased Press. Along with the Frenchgate scandal. Carmichael has been very quiet lately.
What if Scotttish votes keep the UK in the EU. Will there be immediate FFA, Home Rule, Federalism. Independence. Another EU Ref called in the rest of the UK. Alex Salmond said that Independence could come to Scotland, quite soon, in an unexpected way.
The Labour Party graphic is mental it’s only good for a laugh. I wonder why the coins at the bottom are black? Black economy?
I’ve had my laugh now I’m giving some thought to the benefits of reducing APD.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/transport/article4380457.ece
Read the bit in the preview then read the following:
Over the past seven years, six regional airports have shut or closed to commercial traffic – Bristol Filton, Coventry, Plymouth, Penzance Heliport, Manston in Kent and Blackpool.
MPs suggested that the tax should be scrapped, saying that they questioned “whether APD is an efficient means” of raising cash for the country. It follows a report from PricewaterhouseCoopers that argued inward investment in the UK could rise by 6 per cent and an additional 60,000 jobs would be created without the duty because of the “increase in economic activity”.
Louise Ellman, the committee’s Labour chairwoman, said: “Smaller airports drive economic growth. But the smaller airports sector — which is vital to people and businesses in the regions — is limited by APD. Transport ministers must make the case to the Treasury that APD squeezes jobs, growth and connectivity.”
While UK passengers pay Pounds 13 to fly economy within the EU, the sum is Pounds 5.70 in Germany and about Pounds 4 in France. The tax does not apply to children under 12.
Passengers who fly from a regional airport to meet a connecting long-haul flight from London must pay four times — both ways to the capital and again to and from their long-haul destination.
Nicola – SNP has explained about APD. The Press just have not published it, apart from the National. It will raise enough to mitigate (the loss) of tax credits in Scotland coming from Westminster. The revenues generated with cover tax credits (to the vulnerable) and the loss of the tax revenues. It will benefit the most vulnerable, one parent families, women and children. They are the most affected by Westminster welfare cuts.Severely disabled people being bathed in paddling pools, because of the ‘bedroom tax’ in England. That is just disgusting, in a supposed civil society. It makes people so angry.
All this fuss over APD
The minute John Swinney reduces APD Osborne will be right behind him in reducing it in Englandshire (To make it fair)
Then Osborne will put up a Tax which is detrimental to Scotland just to punish us for doing it
These are the kind of people we are dealing with and we should all know it
The no detriment meaning in the Myth Commission will only apply to Englandshire you can bet your booties on that
Then the Labour lot will complain about upsetting the Tories and what are the SNP going to do about it (Coz look what you made them do)
The Myth Commission (powers) will not now, or ever, work, they can’t, how could it be that England is just going to let John Swinney look better than Osborne or even competent at all, that would be an embarrassment to Westminster for Scotland to be doing better
There’s only one way out and we all know what that is (No not killing them) we’re not allowed to do that (damn)
Vote the shit out of the Scottish elections and send the biggest message possible
FUKC YOU we’re leaving at the first available opportunity
SNPx2
Typos – device. honest. Technology! Checked.
Slab know fine well how APD works, they know that Rev Stu is right.
It’s just, you know, once you get into that habit of lying every single day, on every single subject, well, its just too hard to shake.
That, and the fact SLab think that the people of Scotland are complete and utter morons.
Labour seem unable to think outside of the box. Tax and giveaways seem to be the sum of their economic understanding.
Even an economics undergraduate, possibly even a Higher student, can see that reducing APD is about growing trade, tourism and the Scottish airports.
The leaflet is poor on many levels. It is graphically incompetent, sends out bizarre messages about the poor being dirty and is oblivious to genuine macro economic policies. I know their team is poor but this is a shocker.
It’s funny, but I am now seeing people who I thought wanted Scotland to be Independent, now as more ‘out for themselves’ types.
Harry Shanks nailed it the SNP need to use the MSN better especially on a live broadcast where it can not be manipulated – cut -edited or otherwise doctored , also this usual method of the BBC talking over and interrupting every SNP spokesperson needs to be countered they are never going to be reasonable so treat them with the same respect that is f/all , the same goes for the parliament why treat the opposition as adults they don’t deserve it , reply in the same sneering manner as they adopt with their usually stupid questions.
“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves elected should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
? Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Nicola Sturgeon is an exception to the rule.
APD might be £13 short haul, but as I understand it a levy of as much as £100 is possible for long haul.
I once saw an example of the tax on a family from North America wanted to visit their ancestral roots. The tax to Ireland was just a fraction of the tax to Scotland. If they have a choice of destinations, Ireland is a lot cheaper!
@ Rev Stu
“They could probably spell ‘reins of power’, though.
I wouldn’t bet on it. Remember ‘Genertaion’.
I have to go but here’s some light reading for those of you who have time.
This link will download a pdf. Well it might but it might not depending on your browser set up.
http://tinyurl.com/hd73nk2
It’s from the House of Commons Library.
You can also download it here:
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05094
This link is a pdf of the Price Waterhouse report. Could be very similar to the above
http://tinyurl.com/o9wczp6
This is a newspaper article with the headline:
‘Air tax at Manchester Airport ‘could force families looking for cheaper holidays to fly from Scotland’
https://archive.is/jhuIC
Enjoy I’m off to have a nice plate of soup with a big slice of baquette.
I’ll be back later to check that you have all been busy reading all about APD.
Ready steady go!
“The minimum per person is £13, so if we’re talking about a typical family of four that’d be at least £52 for a single flight. So to get a £4.50 figure our bottom 20% of families MUST only be having a holiday once every 12 years. Have you let Richard Baker have a go on the calculator again?”
There are other ways of arriving at the number. Much more plausible is that only one in thirteen families is in a position to take a flight.
“They still haven’t grasped the fact that reducing APD or getting rid of it will encourage more airlines to fly into Scotland and opening up export markets for Scottish companies”
There’s no proof for that “fact” which, more accurately is an assumption. Last year’s figures for Edinburgh Airport (with the burden of APD) show a significant rise in passengers but there is no evidence of the knock-on benefit that you suggest. Latest figures (up to Q3 2015) show Scottish exports down.
@Puzzled Puss,
Love the “Labour does’nt Count ” slogan.
Funny old world when a Scottish Party claims autonomy,but their ex Scottish leader and their major Union funder both tell the Nation that Scottish Labour will just do as they are told by the National Party down south.
Oh, how they used to play us. We have got wiser now.
But the Daily Regord says we must believe whatever the Labour party in Scotland says! And Fluffy Mundell says the Daily Regord is influential! We must obey our unionist masters; they are intellectual giants!
The graphic looks perfectly fine to me. It’s all about Cash Genertaion.
@Penderyn says: 18 January, 2016 at 9:32 am:
“Isn’t APD only payable IF you fly? i.e. if you are too poor, then you can’t afford to fly anywhere anyway, so the APD is irrelevant.”
That’s claptrap – The effects of APD affect those who have never flown in their life. The fact is that those business travellers from Scotland who fly on business trips pass on the costs of travel to their customers.
“If you can afford to fly somewhere every weekend, then you are obviously not living in poverty, and can hence afford to pay APD.”
Most flights are NOT for pleasure but for business and as pointed out business passes on the costs to their customers.
“Do MPs have to pay APD when they fly to London”
MPs do not pay for travel on political business – they claim it back from the taxpayer and once more those who don’t fly pay.
Like Kezia and the Labour Party you totally miss the point that APD is a regressive tax that is paid by the poor whether they fly or not and it holds back business from outwith London. London business doesn’t have to pay to fly to London.
This is the reason SNP want to first cut it and then end it. It will make business in Scotland more competitive, encourage tourism into Scotland and even make business’ providing holidays from Scotland more competitive.
Helping the poorer Scots afford foreign travel is the least of the benefits from getting rid of APD.
Bob Mack said at 12:32pm:-
“Funny old world when a Scottish Party claims autonomy,but their ex Scottish leader and their major Union funder both tell the Nation that Scottish Labour will just do as they are told by the National Party down south.
Oh, how they used to play us. We have got wiser now.”
EXACTLY—-here’s one example of many:-
Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey on the telly yesterday:-
interviewer:- “How can you and the Labour Party support Trident renewal when the 2 biggest parties in Scotland ie S.N.P. and Scottish Labour are against it?”
Mr McCluskey replied that that does not matter because it’s the British Labour Party that counts!!” !!!!!!!!!
SNPx2 in May.
scotsbob@1.13am
Well said.
O/T If you are boycotting Bella, and I see it is missing again from the list in the centre column, then you will miss an excellent argument for abolishing Council Tax and setting up Land Value Tax (called Annual Ground Rent here).
“A form of AGR; a Land Tax, has been used previously in Scotland. It was the main source of revenue prior to the 1707 Union of Parliaments and continued for several years afterwards but was gradually abolished by the landowners in the Westminster Parliament, who changed the tax laws to pass the burden of paying taxes onto working people so that the barons and lairds could enjoy the unearned rental value of the land. “
The Commission on Local Tax Reform report is out and Parties will have to put something in their manifesto for May to address this issue.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/01/18/the-fair-system-to-replace-council-tax-annual-ground-rent-agr/
Phil
We will find out the impact on the local economy soon enough because I think the chances are that it will be SNP policies that are introduced not the opposition ones.
If it does not have the desired impact it is a short task to restore the tax. It is hardly am Armageddon moment.
Slow news day again and even Stevie, ‘the rocket man’, has been laid off by ‘Scottish’ labour 🙁
Meanwhile darn Sarf! … another coiny graph thing tells us were better off in North Britain.
https://archive.is/0veYh
Mps and lords certainly do get their travel expenses among other things paid for by us. Subsidised to the max while some folk have to go to a foodbank.
This from my links this morning….
Who are the hereditary landowner peers claiming over £500 per day for attending House of Lords?
https://theferret.scot/scottish-peers-expenses/
O/T somewhat, and it was Andrew McLean who brought his name up, not me!, but has anyone seen Spud Murphy jog past the B.B.C.s complex lately?!, (or is the film unit out elsewhere ).
I dont know why the smaller partys dont get it.They will amount to nothing in the present situation as we are still strapped to the Uk.THey are grains of sand in a desert of no significance whatsoever.Even if by some miracle they pick up the odd seat they may be able to influence the half baked and limited parliament we do have in Scotland.Why do they not get right behind the SNP so we can oust and finnish the Unionist parties once and for all.We are then another major step along the road to independence and when we do acheive our objective we will have proportional representation and a proper democratic parliament with full powers.It seems a no brainer independence would strengthen the smaller parties otherwise if the status quo remains they will remain on the edges and no more than little talking shops.
O/T but on the subject of non-numerate bloggers, and relevant to SNP/SNP vote in May. There have been several good expositions of the need for both votes for SNP in May. As pointed out upthread, Derek Bateman has a good post on this, and Peter Bell makes it even clearer in a BTL post on Derek’s blog.
However, not only are Bella presenting article after article pushing a second vote for RISE et al, they are also according to Scot Goes Pop, refusing articles putting any other point of view (such as SNP/SNP) see:
scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Have we not learned yet that the tactic of the UKOKIAN State is to divide and rule? SNP/SNP is perhaps the single most important message that we need to reinforce time and time again. Let’s not be distracted by side issues but keep explaining the logic and numbers behind SNP/SNP.
Jack Murphy says:
“Mr McCluskey replied that that does not matter because it’s the British Labour Party that counts!!”
… and he is being 100% honest there. SLab’s stance on Trident should be of no interest or value, because it doesn’t matter.
However, there are gullible people out there who believe SLab might actually exist as a separate entity with different policies. Therein, lies the deceit.
Meanwhile darn Sarf! … another coiny graph thing tells us were better off in North Britain.
So neo fascists of the Heil say
“After housing costs, Scots had £405 of disposable income each week, compared to £400 in London, for the year 2013 to 2014. Before the crash Londoners had £418 extra cash to play with each week, while Scots lagged behind with £389.”
Scots with £405 to spend per week, after tax, mortgage/rent? That’s a pay level hitting £50k+ a year. Scotland’s the slave wage capital of Europe, so fcuk knows who these UKOK tory creeps are trying to kid.
These are Norwegian standards and Norwegian averages too. Bet Norway wishes it too was reined over by our chums in the south.
@Albaman
Unfortunately I did spot something about him this morning.
Jim Murphy to chair EU referendum debate
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/3267/mcdash-reports-jeremy-hunt-joins-the-dark-side-corbyn-tops-brit-nominations-jim-murphy-to-chair-eu-referendum-debate
@X_Sticks says: 18 January, 2016 at 9:53 am:
” … But whit’ll they point with after they count the first five?”
Ah! You might be onto something there X Sticks. The old saying is that you should never point a finger at others for doing so means you also have three other fingers pointing back at yourself.
Could that be why Labour cannot see their mistakes?
They don’t have any members pointing three fingers at their own mistakes?
“Are you morons?”
I think we’ll put that down as a rhetorical question, shall we?
call me dave says:
18 January, 2016 at 9:51 am
@Effijy
Good observation Effigy taking the right angle on that post with very acute comments and not obtuse at all unlike labour.
I’d like to thank you Dave COS it’s a good SIN that you are reading everything without going of at a TANgent.
@ian @1:13
I tend to agree with you that independence is the goal, and it doesn’t seem to be far away.
However, fair enough if small parties believe they have a case to present before the electorate. There are some people who believe the SG could and should be more radical now. I don’t because that might threaten the broad church we have. I accept some people look at it differently.
What does really get up my nose though, is smaller parties trying to achieve representation by making false claims about the second vote. They say “toss a coin and it will be heads” … but we all know it could just as easily be tails!
If they have a case to make based on differing policies, OK, but they will go down in flames if the best they can offer is electoral system bollocks.
@ Effijy
“I’d like to thank you Dave COS it’s a good SIN that you are reading everything without going of at a TANgent.”
Are you on ‘e’?
Council tax and land value tax are the same. (a rate put on land with property on it) It is the property value that increases the value of the land. The nonsense that is being propagated about a land tax is astonishing.
Land is exempt from tax to keep farms together. Larger farms produce more. Land has more value with development rights. A land tax could affect everyone. It could put up land prices, for essential projects, public building and houses prices. Just putting a land tax on estates and landowners could affect the whole economy. Farms could produce less, food and production prices coud go up and there could be less exported. What is gained on the roundabouts could be lost on the swings. Some farmers are only breaking even.
There could be other ways to go about it. A higher band of rateable value. Even a land registry might not make much difference (tax havens). It is a question of tax evasion. A Westminster responsibility, to enforce the tax laws. Not a land tax question at all. Even knowing who owns the Land does not solve the problem. A progressive tax based on wealth, would be more fairer and affective. That could only be enforce and be assured with FFA or Independence. The SNP Gov is proceeding with caution because caution has to exercised. It could affect the whole economy and not achieve the target i.e the wealthiest, who use land to tax evade.
Scotland should not pay higher tax for Westminster policies. £10Billion+ a year already goes from Scotland to the Treasury for policies of which, a majority in Scotland did not vote. Oil sector tax/take is 60% when prices are low. Oil prices have fallen 3/4 (75%) tax/take shoud have fallen 3/4 (75%) – 20%. Not 60%. Thousand of people are losing their jobs. More Oil & Gas to be imported, putting up the balance of payments deficit and the UK debt. Tax should reflect production costs and the price.
Petrol prices have come down but have not be reflected in a fall in the price of goods. Or people can’t afford them because of a fall in income. Most heating fuel and energy prices have not come down. A fall in bills is a result of unseasonal higher temperatures, not a price fall. People using less for a period. Flooding costs will put up insurance costs and mitigate the slight fall fuel and energy costs.
The Greens have got rid of the lying dross in the NE, who are still causing problems. A good decision.
@Ken500
In this video Alex Salmond sets out a positive agenda for oil jobs
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/politics-opinion/808294/video-setting-positive-agenda-oil-jobs/
Will Westminster and the tory clowns listen, I doubt it.
Australian Tennis Open starts today. Is Djokovic taking enhancing substances? Erratic movements, aggression, body movements. Andy Murray says there are few drug tests in Tennis. A Spanish Clinic providing illegal stimulants for tennis, football (whole teams) and cycling atheletes. Seb Coe covered up drug cheating.
@Effigy and @Proud Cybernat
Ha! Ha!… I give up, your too good at the trig for me.
I’m glad though that, in general, our views are adjacent and we’re not on opposite sides of the political hypotenuse.
I’m away to do the ceramics and floors in the bathrooms as I vowed yesterday I would do them. 🙁
Are they drunk when they cobble these things together? Or do they just leave it to the children in Kezia Dugdale’s playgroup?
IMHO A simple way to view the two Holyrood votes
First vote is for the person/party you wish to represent your constituency.
Second vote is for the party you wish to form the next government and/or the party which best represents your views and expectations.
You can tactically vote in the first vote, you cannot in the second.
@ Call Me Dave
“I’m away to do the ceramics and floors in the bathrooms
as I vowed yesterday I would do them.”
Don’t talk to me about VOWS. They’re Pi in the sky.
@ ken500
Council tax and land value tax are the same. (a rate put on land with property on it) It is the property value that increases the value of the land.
Not according to Duncan Pickard who wrote the Bella article and is himself a farmer. The reason they prefer to call it Annual Ground Rent is to distinguish it from taxation.
Another explanation of Land Value Tax is in the video which has already been linked to on WoS: The Taxing Question of Land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYSsME_h7E
With the Land Reform Bill being amended, the replacement for Community Charge is an interesting issue too. What will be in the manifestos?
Will Jeremy introduce NPD (Nuclear Passenger Duty) on the 24/7 round the world trips for the Trident Subs with no Tridents. Thus deterring all the enemies of the British Empire on which the sun set many years ago.
Still it kept the unions happy knowing they will still have the jobs.
BLAB joins SLAB in total melt down. Unfortunately this could be dangerous.
@ Proud Cybernat
And a rounded 3.412 to you too …toodle ooo! I’m off 🙂
Slab should use their APD economic principal for cooncil tax. Spend what they get now on three (and counting) different things. Then they wouldn’t need to raise it. My local council asking me to give them more of my money for council tax is not a vote winner. Especially when they waste what they currently get on things like “fact finding trips” around the world. Cut the waste and you won’t need to raise my tax.
If only Slabanomics actually worked, it would solve everything.
OT reply to the Rev.’s twitter thingy.
@ Gerry Braiden
Apologies if you’re being ironic.
http://www.rudi.net/books/4694
Shopping habits have changed for good in Britain and there is a very strong case for improving traditional town centers, so they provide safe and amenable public space.
http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/library/Reports/PedestrianPound_fullreport_web.pdf
Sorry for the geek-out folks. 😉
Not exactly OT as it relates to transport, connectivity and competitiveness. Admittedly from last year and still a bit geeky.
http://www.rudi.net/node/69202
Remember, international studies of High Speed Rail schemes, show most benefits will accrue to businesses and property owners located next/near to stations. Also, KPMG admitted their study was short on data and limited in scope.
I wonder if a certain MSP has antiquated herself with Schumpeter yet?
Aquainted, obvs. 🙂
Hi galamcennalath.
We do have two votes for Hollyrood – your constituency vote, where you vote for the person you want to represent your constituency – and your Regional vote, where you vote for the party you want in government.
To me, the use of the terms ‘first’ and ‘second’ implies that one is more important than the other. Not so; they are of equal value.
The voting slips are not numbered 1 and 2. As far as I can remember, they are named ‘Constituency’ and ‘Region’. If I mark my X on the Region paper first, then that is my first vote!
Big farms do not produce more per acre, they just invest in bigger machines & employ less people. We should be keeping more folk on the land not turning the place into a fucking prairie & killing the wildlife into the bargain. An acre farmed intensively under poly-tunnels is a bigger earner anyhow.
Anent Kezia demonstrably getting her knickers in a twist to the comrades over the Trade Union Bill, it’s what she voted for at the referendum when she backed her Tory chums, she can suck it up!
Call me Dave, theres rounding up and theres making it up. Your Pi seems to be bigger than everyone elses.
‘They prefer to call in annual ground’ rent’ to distinguish from taxation. It is not a progressive tax based on income but it does help farmers. Fairer progressive tax is based on income rather than (unproductive) land tenure. Increase land value depends on use. Land increases in value with planning consent. A lot of land is relatively useless without a productive use for it. Anyone can buy land. ‘Right to property’ is enshrined in the Human Rights Act.
Some Estate/landowners raise money against the (mortgage) land, but are relatively in debt. They are quite happy to sell the land if there is a productive use for it. The value of land depends on planning consent. Most of the land in England is owned by pension funds. Scotland has be depopulated by Westminster the effect has bern to limit land use. Scotland has ‘a right to roam’. Any land tax would have to considered with caution because it could have unforeseen consequences and not achieve the expected outcome. There could be other ways to tax/rate the wealthier. A progressive tax based on income.
Scotland should not pay more tax when Scotland pays £10Billion+ to the UK Treasury for policies which the majority in Scotland do not support. Trident/illegal wars, £4Billion on debt repayments not borrowed or spent in Scotland, excessive Oil sector tax damaging the industry, no tax on ‘loss leading’ alcohol, no sugar tax to improve health, no permission from Westminster for coal production and CCS projects etc.
Jack Murphy says:
18 January, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Re the Len McCluskey attitude to Trident. He’s adamant that we need it to keep his members jobs.
Does he realise the cost of the US shuttle program from its inception in 1972 until now ($213B), is less than the price we will be paying for Trident (£150B). At its peak it employed over half a million people and still employs over 8,000 at the Kennedy Space Center, and hundreds if not thousands elsewhere in NASA.
I’m not saying we should have a Space Program, but it shows what can be achieved with that much money. Leaving the job opportunities aside, just think of the innovation and advances in technology over the past 40 years due directly to the Space Program.
What advances to mankind will four submarines stuffed with bombs that can never be used bring?
Jack Murphy says:
18 January, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Apologies for the incorrect figures above. The Space Program employed half a million at its peak in 1965. (The moon program also cost around $200B at 2014 prices).
The Shuttle program employed approx 44,000 employees each year over its 40 year period.
Aye! No wonder I got a ‘c-‘ at maffths! 🙂
Must have been a labour calculator. What’s 0.41 to 0.14 between friends. DOH!
@Thepnr: “Four tins of beans is £2.60 still costs the same whether your on £10,000 or £100,000 per year.
We are all aware the those on £100K per year can afford more beans just as they can afford more flights.
If you believe you have a solution for a more equitable system of taxation, please share it with Kezia. You may be better off writing to her directly rather than lecture people on Wings. I’m guessing she could do with all the help she can get right now.”
A flat tax is inequitable because it takes a greater proportion of the income of a poorer person than a person on a higher income.
Therefore it would be better to abolish flat taxes and replace them with progressive taxes, linked to people’s incomes. This isn’t a novel idea – progressive taxation of incomes has been implemented for centuries.
If it’s not possible to introduce progressive taxation linked to income (because the powers to do so haven’t been devolved or because it would not be practical to do so) either freezing or cutting a flat tax reduces the unfair burden on people on lower incomes.
Thus the SNP government’s proposal to cut APD by 50% from 2018 is welcome.
Given the very poor correlation between incomes and the very wide bands that council tax uses, it as a quasi-flat tax and its replacement with a local property tax, linked to income, would be a better alternative.
Now do you see my point? Or does it need more spelling out?
@Onwards
“Onwards says:
18 January, 2016 at 2:55 am
Mark says:
18 January, 2016 at 12:30 am
“APD is a flat-rate tax”
Yes, but how could you really make APD progressive ?
Should the cost of flights be tailored to wealth?”
I don’t think that would be practical, so my preference would be to either reduce APD significantly or abolish it altogether.
The 50% cut in APD proposed by the SNP is a welcome development and should hopefully lead to its abolition altogether.
@Mark
the majority of taxes that the UK government levy are flat rate taxes. VAT, excise duties, National Insurance above a certain level of Income, road tax ect.
The second and third largest sources of tax are NI and VAT, neither are progressive, APD is very small in comparison and I can see no way that this tax could be progressive.
A real way to help those at the lower end of the pay scale or no pay at all would be to reduce VAT to the minimum allowed by the EU at 15%. Clawing the money back from the highest earners.
Never going to happen though, eh.
I’m glad we both agree that cutting and eventually scrapping APD is worth looking at. Apologies if I picked up the gist of your original post wrongly.