The Ballad Of The Glyph
We listened to an interesting chat on Good Morning Scotland earlier today (it’s right at the start, just after the news) featuring Gerry Hassan and the sharp New Statesman reporter Stephen Bush, which briefly discussed a curious political phenomenon of the 2000s where people said they liked certain policies until they were told they were Tory policies, at which point their opinions changed.
It put us rather in mind of a classic 2000AD comic strip called The Ballad Of Halo Jones, and in particular a short episode from it about a character called The Glyph, which seemed to us to sum up the current dilemma facing the Labour Party on both sides of the border – but especially in Scotland, as was rather strikingly illustrated by a revealing interview with Kezia Dugdale on Friday.
So we thought we’d share it with you, because sometimes pictures say a thousand words. Especially if there are several of them and they also have words on them.
Just four months out from a general election, Dugdale pathologically avoided nailing down a single Labour position, dodging questions on taxation, welfare and universal services. But the truth is that it didn’t matter.
Dugdale’s party has switched back and forth so many times on pretty much every principle it ever stood for that when people hear a new policy announcement they just shrug in boredom and move on, knowing that it’ll probably have changed again next week, or that if they somehow got into power it would change then, just like the commitments to electoral reform and not introducing tuition fees and etc etc.
Whether it’s the council tax freeze or “something for nothing” benefits or Trident or just about anything else you could name, Labour have held every view under the sun at some point or another in recent history. Their pronouncements are meaningless, and because they’re meaningless they’re boring, and because they’re boring nobody pays any attention to them.
The only solution to that is to nail the party’s colours to some masts and keep them there for years – something the current Labour seems catastrophically unable and/or unwilling to do, and which will be a long-term project even if they do ever get round to it. In the meantime, the rest of us have a long period of Conservative governments to look forward to.
The Glyph makes one more appearance in “Halo Jones”. We don’t want to spoil the book for you, but it doesn’t end well for him/her/it. Perhaps someone should buy Kezia Dugdale a copy before it’s too late.
Labour Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion, banking fraud kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Brown and Blair should be jail. Independence could put them there.
My maw threw out all my 2000AD comics first 100 odd editions. I have still not quite forgiven her.
Good article and point well made.
I’ve never trusted re-moulds. I prefer the real thing.
Nice excuse to revisit this, Stu! 😀
Kezia is in the position where she can pretty much make it up as she goes along, safe in the knowledge that she is very, very unlikely to be in power.
Jackie Baillie already defies mathematical laws and takes absolute nonsense with a benign smile on her face, knowing full well that her only real goal is to ensure she is first on the Labour list vote.
Ffs,maybe I’ve found a soul mate at last.
Wonder if he/she is on Ashley Madison ?
@Chitterinlicht 17 January 2016 at 11:17 am:
“My maw threw out all my 2000AD comics first 100 odd editions. I have still not quite forgiven her.”
Happened to me, too. Probably worth a wee fortune these days. Aargh.
The hell with RISE. SNP 1 & 2
Whoa, nice trip down memory lane and so apt.
There is more than one glyph in the Labour Party.They have become a collective living among us . They want to participate and share in our daily lives,but have forgotten how to communicate or hold our attention.
I had a colleague like that who I used to avoid. A Walter Mitty type of character who used to tell the most astounding tales of adventure and experience in order to make himself interesting. The tales seldom worked. We knew he was exagerrating but what can you do but avoid?
Down with glyphs I say . Is that xenophobic?
McCluskey should apologise to his members. No one else elected him.
Barring a few political manifestos, that’s the saddest work of fiction I’ve ever read.
Now we’re getting somewhere Rev. This piece is brilliant. You could also portray Kezia as Isa from “Still Game” or the bairn from “The Broons” Both listening into other’s conversations and always sowing utter confusion in retelling what they’d heard by always getting it wrong. Can we have a weekly comic strip featuring the hapless Kezia? I can’t help out unfortunately coz I’m rubbish at drawing.
Rev wrote:
“Labour have held every view under the sun at some point or another in recent history. Their pronouncements are meaningless,”
Aye, they’ve tried every trick in the book!
The Broon Tune
link to archive.is
Vote SNP x 2
Wish I could agree, Rev, I really do. But here in Inverclyde, the Glyph Party can still rely on ten thousand votes from people who still think they mean something – whether they still think they’re the party their grandparents voted for, or simply because they still think they’re the only ones that can stop the Tories/SNP/Hitler/Franco/whoever.
Plus, as Glyph says, the condition has its advantages. When people stop paying attention to you, you can get away with murder. Hence how their party’s MPs can be on trail for assault and not be inundated with demands from every newspaper, while the SNP’s MPs are constantly scrutinised and assailed for irrelevancies.
Maybe when support for the Other Party has been whittled down past the Tories to Willie Rennie’s level I’ll rest easy. Until then, they’re all too noticeable for my liking.
I have that very Ballad of Halo Jones ‘graphic novel’ – Alan Moore is one of my favourites.
How odd that there are so many confluences of music/comics/books/films amongst Yes supporters.
Are we an eclectic group? ;o)
You hit the point of that story dead-on, nice work Stu.
And after kezia’s & labours cheap shot yesterday at the union gathering, I hope Nicola creams her earse today.
The analogy certainly covers the flipping lib dem`s,who have become such an irrelevance as to have almost disappeared,
Nick Clegg was probably in Commons and on telly or in your house but so inconsequential as to be invisible.
Also, the scam where Labour pretend that the wee North British branch can have different policies from HQ. That really is nasty and underhand.
Itchbiscuit
music/comics/books/films/
and Pubs!
A bit of a political jay walker….or as weegies would say a Texas Tory….(that’s norweigies) ;-/
Labour changed position so many times, just to win elections? So what was the point of them in power, other than careers for unemployable airheads who thought they were celebrities?
Walter Scott
I see Kezia more as The Bairn from The Broons, Jackie Baillie, for all the Daphne link I came up with some months ago, would, in this context, be Isa from Still Game.
SLAB really has become the living version of The Broons – living in a Scotland which, if it ever existed, no longer does.
Grandpaw – George Foulkes
Paw – Gordon Broon
Maw – Helen Liddell
Hen – Jim Murphy
Joe – Jack McConnell
Maggie – Margaret Curran
Daphne – Jackie Baillie
Horace – Henry McLeish
The Twins – Douglas and Wendy Alexander
The Bairn – Kezia Dugdale
I’ve mentioned it several times before. The Labour Party was born in Scotland from a pairing of former members of the Crofter’s Party backed by the Liberals. One of its first policies was Home Rule for Scotland. Kier Hardie lost his first election attempt in Scotland but succeeded in getting elected in England.
After then helping to form the Labour Party Hardie soon forgot all about his Home Rule ideals. So Labour has a very long history of holding pretend policies they do nothing to implement when in power.
It just occured to me that a glyph in any culture is a mark with a SPECIFIC MEANING within that culture.
When was the last time Kezia was specific on anything?
Wrong name.
That’s good and captures Kezia and labour to a tee.
Remember SNP x 2 but wait here’s a Hark the Herald article! 🙂
Why a hectoring online fringe is putting the achievements of the Yes movement at risk
link to archive.is
PS:
Listened to this in the early hours this morning, as I was trying to get my legs to stop being so painful and couldn’t sleep.
Enjoyed it and in spite of Naughtie doing the commentary brought back some good memories. I. Hamilton QC was in on it back in 1951.
Enjoy! The Stone of Destiny. (It’s not really a play)
link to bbc.co.uk
Good article there’s just one small error.
Labour haven’t held every view under the sun recently, they never held the view that an independent Scotland is what we should have.
If they ever hold that view, it may just save them.
FFS Get the facts straight Brewer. University of California produced nuclear which just about destroyed the world. US Gov through patents and trade barriers/rules damage the world economy. The Tax Laws damage their own economy. US multinationals are a Law unto themselves, they break trade Laws with impunity and damage the world economy.
Scotland already loses £10Billion+ a year on policies for which the majority did not vote. Broken promises of FFA, Home Rule, Federalism. Not forgotten.
The Treasury Oil sector tax/take is 60% while the oil price has fallen 3/4 ( 75%). Oil tax should be 20%, to reflect the fall in price. Thousands of workers would not lose their jobs and more Oil & Gas would not have to be imported. Putting up the UK balance of payments deficit and the debt. Inexperienced, incompetent Osborne cuts up his nose to spite his face and Scotland.
US has higher emission standards. Only 20% allowed. EU emissions 80% allowed. EU (Germany) supports lower standards in Europe. US fuel is cheaper. Diesel is irrelevant in US. Few diesel vehicles. More relevant in Europe. (diesel cheaper tax/fuel). US administration is suing Volkswagen for $22Billion. EU policies are ‘secretly’ not Green. A deception. Higher vehicle emission and higher (heating) fuel costs. A disaster?
Haggerty kettle black. Total non self-awareness. Support for the SNP/Independence is increasing.
@Itchybiscuit
There was definitely a sea-change culturally at the time, Late 70s/early 80s, much biting satire on TV and print which challenged the establishment. 2000AD was a phenomenon in comic publications, it read like an underground magazine, subversive and such, but developed mainstream popularity. Pretty much helped to kill off the old jingoistic pro-establishment comics such as Warlord and The Victor.
——-
Kezia said something recently which dumbfounded me and totally illustrated why Scottish Labour is melting away. She said, along the lines of: “If Scotland votes me in as First Minister then Labour will produce the policies that voters want”. … um, so that will be vote first and see what you get later? Aye Kezia, pull the other wan. That said to me that Labour have nothing to offer and what you will eventually get is a rehash of nothing.
After all this time, Labour (Scottish branch) still don’t get it and are drifting further away from public conciousness they might as well be canvassing on the moon. They are living on life-support of the MSM and nothing more.
In my mind what RISE, Greens, and other other groups have to offer is to promote the indy cause by taking the argument and vision to the people. Yes it might be an anti-SNP argument on some cases because they are battling for seats, but the main goal is to get people who voted NO in the indy ref to start believing that independence is not only the best choice for Scotland, but a movement of possibilities and ideas to vote for next time round. Better Together hasn’t stopped campaigning, and neither should the wider indy movement. If anyhing there is much more work to be done regardless of which group you belong to. Change Scotland for the better.
[…] The Ballad Of The Glyph […]
O/T
Heard on radio Unite union Labour affiliation in Scotland has gone from 80% for Labour to 66% for SNP in last 2 yrs. (Figs Len Mcluskey Gen Sec)
Wife bought Sunday Mule to see how it would be reported; and of 5 delegates depicted they managed to source 4 SNPBAD and 1 SNPNo’BAD.
Heard her mumbling “Mince; no change their then” as she headed for the paper bin.
Dug and co. arny soopid……dumb , yes….but.. yes they’re pretty much are stoopid….But surly not that stoopid that they expect to gain power or even hold on to what they’ve got now…or maybe they are…I don’t vote for stoopid.
2000 AD …brilliant comic when it first came out. However, only one other controversial comic topped it and that was ‘Action’. It came out around 1975 and I can remember the establishment screeching in fury and wanting it banned as some stories were bordering on just sheer bloodiness and violence (Hookjaw and Death Game) while it was the ‘Kids Rule’ story that had the Establishment jumping up and down in agitation due to the story detailing of the UK system finally being broken down, the rich were wiped out, anarchy ruled, and kids could do what ever they wanted. Not the sort of story that the Establishment wants to hear LOL. Look it up on Wiki …Action is literally the controversial father to 2000 AD.
Anyway …back to the real world! The problem we also have with Labour, is that it’s just not Kezia who is hotfooting from one principle to the next. Baillie is another prime culprit who moves from one opinion to the next, but rather that it being about putting a policy into context, it’s more of to do with ‘SNP Bad’
And on that …that is at least the one key policy that has Labour not only united behind, but the only thing that we know we can back Labour on …simply …‘SNP Bad’ LOL
Are you suggesting that Labour’s Northern Accounting Unit are
not the Socialist, Middle Ground,Fascists that they say they are?
“Let’s call the whole thing off”
“You say for Trident,
I say I’m ardent,
You say its either and i say its neither
We dither, we swither
We wilt and we wither
Oh let’s call the whole thing off”
You cut the welfare,
I say it’s unfair
You love the Tory,
Well that’s another story
Adore me, ignore me,
You already bore me
let’s call the whole thing off
but oh, if we call the whole thing off then we must part
and oh, if we ever part then that’s a start
oh, let’s call the whole thing off
Crivvens jings Socrates, brilliant.
Talking of changing policies … the latest from Mr Corbyn apparently is we could have still have Trident subs, but just without the nuclesr warheads! 🙂
They moan on and on about “The Scottish government isn’t opposing Tory cuts” “SNP talks left and acts right”
The Labour party voted FOR the cuts or Abstained
Anybody pay the “Bedroom tax today?” Somebody make a Feckin list
“Council Budgets Slashed” Labour scream!!!
2pence in the freakin pound 2pence Jeez and Labour still tried to con the flood victims out of their grant
6 houses Labour built, Feckin 6
SNP don’t care they only built 30.000 houses piss poor that intit
Ooh!! ah could crush a grape
Another Car Crash from B.B.C. Sunday Politics. Gordon Brewer interviewing Len Mc Cluskie Leader of Unite Trade Union for the best part of 15 minutes. G.B. asks why Unite are backing Scottish Labour in the forthcoming Scottish Parliament Elections when around 60% of Scottish Members voted for the S.N.P.!! Len fobs him off with Labour is a party reborn and J.C. and Kesia are just the people to bring the Scottish Members back to the fold. Gordon eventually cuts in after letting Len waffle on and on and asks about Trident Renewal and how Unite Members are scared for their many jobs supported by Trident et al. More waffle from Len , and Gordon asks what he thinks will topple Len “How can you and the Labour Party support Trident renewal when the 2 biggest parties in Scotland ie S.N.P. and Scottish Labour are against it”. Wait for it– LEN replies that that does not matter because its the British Labour Party that counts!! Gordon face was a GEM! Its getting clearer with every B.B.C Politics Show that the B.B.C. in SCOTLAND are in a big hole and keep digging it bigger with this crap from the Labour Party Unionists.
“Maggie – Margaret Curran”
Maggie surely has to be Pauline McNeil?
link to resolutionfoundation.org
OT, but this has been picked up by Libby Brooks in the Guardian. With no SNPbad spin.
Alan: “Len fobs him off with Labour is a party reborn and J.C. and Kesia are just the people to bring the Scottish Members back to the fold.”
Wasn’t that a breath-taking exercise in how to hold two absolute opposing beliefs simultaneously?
Behind the waffle McLuskie is saying, Scotland’s voters don’t count.
McCluskey should be put in jail for lyng and misusing members funds. Another fat cat.
Loved Halo Jones.
“Nobody died today”. Fitting epitaph for Kez/Scottish Labour.
Mc Cluskie is a disgrace to his Scottish members and clearly shows why Unions are dying because they have failed to move with the times like Slab and got there heads in the sand. How can you state 60% of my members in Scotland voted SNP and then say the majority of my members in the rest of the Uk matter more.
Surely most of the Scottish branch will be cancelling subscription and Nicola shouldn’t even be standing on the same platform as this balloon. If the Unions don’t want to support the views of Scotland the SNP shouldn’t even bother talking to these numpties!
Great cartoon and sums up Kez exactly
I’m with Taranaich on this one. It still has careerists, older non-reflective tribal voters, the state broadcaster (Scottish section) and certain allies in the corporate media. This locates it very much in the real political world. You just have to read the comments on this site to feel the anger towards it. You do not feel anger towards a nonentity.
Yet, on the other hand, I think we are becoming largely indifferent to it. If it wasn’t for the state broadcaster, British Labour in Scotland would probably be merely background noise.
We still need to aid it in its evolution towards full glyphication. This can be done through appropriate real world voting this year and next.
A very sad story. Strange how these former public figures dissolve into the ether whenever the public eye focuses on something more interesting. Although I wouldn’t recommend following British soaps as a diversion.
@ Alan of Neilston – thanks for the summary of Gordon Brewer’s effort on behalf of Labour. Seems to have backfired. Was Kezia there? She seems to be away for another remould lately.
Awaiting reports of Nicola’s address to the Unite faithful.
Scott Bothwick@1.31
Re: ‘Nobody died today’
Scottish Labour died today on Sunday Politics- ask Big Len puddin heed.
The Glyph looks like Jim Murphy.
They are so hopelessly divided that no-one knows what they stand for from one week to the next.
Pledges just aren’t taken seriously.
The one I remember most is the Labour promises on more powers for Scotland with Gordon Brown all over the TV promising radical home rule, near federalism..
I can’t find it right now but there was a nice chart showing the parties actual proposals to the Smith Commission with ticks and crosses against tax powers. Labour’s position was a long list of crosses.
They just can’t be trusted.
If the SNP fall short of a majority, I have no doubt they will try to team up with the Tories and Libdems for a grand unionist coalition.
Red tory nonentities, that have wrought havoc across the world.
Scotland wants independence, red/blue tories say anything to stop it, flip flop and spin and BBC etc will terrify us back into UKOK line again, maybe.
Dugdale reminds me of Cameron.
Dugdale can promise fluffy unicorns and the moon on a stick knowing it will never happen.
Cameron offered up an EU in out referendum to spear the perceived threat from UKIP,safe in the knowledge it would not apply UNLESS there was a Tory MAJORITY, which nobody was predicting.
Now look at the position he has got himself into…a real risk of a Brexit and as a result, a real risk of a 2nd referendum ending the union.
No wonder he says he is bailing out of his leadership position !
What a tangled web we weave….and all that !
Hi Onwards.
You’ll find that Smith Commission graphic at the link below.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Taking up Taranaich’s point above at 11:54, how do we target the hardcore Slab voters in that one area?
Is it valid to assume that the majority of them are DR readers?
If so, does the DR offer regional leaflet inserts into their rag?
If they do, how do you craft a leaflet that will be visually appealing to the Slab voter but which has a message to make them think (I know, I know – assumes they actually DO have that capacity)?
Cost would be the next thing, plus getting it past the DR thought police in their advertising revenue department.
Or, is the insert leaflet something that’s controlled by the distributor?
Just a thought
KEZIA Dugdale must apologise for Labour “betraying” Scotland if the party is to have any hope of stemming the flood of support for the SNP, the country’s most powerful union leader has warned.
Unite general secretary Len McCluskey said”
Asked what he meant by betrayal, he said: “I mean that the neo-liberal agenda that was pursued to its extreme by the last Labour government and the Labour leaderships that followed made it appear in Scotland that Labour wasn’t on the side of ordinary people, and the SNP stole most of the radical clothes that historically should have belonged to Labour.”
He said the upshot was voters perceiving the SNP as the more socially democratic party. “I don’t think it’s a more social democratic party than Labour, but it was perceived that way by lots of the Scottish working class.
“It’s up to Scottish Labour to remember its heritage. Its radical edge became blunted in the New Labour years.”
So there you go red tories, say sorry and youre back in the game. Maybe a BBC special, Kez going around their Scotland region in sack cloth and chains, weepin and wailing, so sorry for, what was it again?
Crash Brown, Bomber Blair, Lord Flipper, Capt James T Murphy etc neo-liberal agenda that was pursued to its extreme.
But it pays so good, the Lords awaits, seats on bank boards, BBC grovellers, chauffeurs, expenses out the UKOK wazzooo…
Panelbase managing directo Ivor Knox said: “While there have been some sporadic indications of movements in attitudes, our polls since the 2014 referendum have generally shown a small majority opposed to independence, including polls following the election of a Conservative majority government in last year’s UK general election.
EU exit would trigger Scots independence vote, poll reveals:
“It seems that the tipping point leading to – or preventing – independence may not be related to short term party politics but rather to the other major constitutional issue of the day: Britain’s relationship with Europe.”
John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, told the Sunday Times: “If Britain were to vote to leave the EU it could tip the balance on independence from a narrow margin against to a narrow margin in favour.”
link to archive.is
Aranciaca says:
17 January, 2016 at 1:23 pm
link to resolutionfoundation.org
OT, but this has been picked up by Libby Brooks in the Guardian. With no SNPbad spin.
Sorry but this is just more sub defuse to make gullible Scots
think that maybe they are better together. They are not!
We have over 400,000 Scots working for less than the minimum wage
We have Circa 180,000 Scots unemployed, and there are no doubt 10’s of Thousands who do not have a job, but the Tories find a way of removing them from the figures by sanctioning etc.
Have a look at some evidence, from an unlikely source, that destroys the perception given by the Unionist Alliance:
link to heraldscotland.com
thankfully, Alan Moore didn’t put Kezia in “The Lost Girls”, though …
@Socrates MacSporran
Loved your portrayal of “The Broons” 🙂
Surely though you need an intellectual, know it all for the role of Horace?
I propose John McTernan!
link to youtube.com
the best of 2000ad
FGS Rev are you trying to make us feel sorry for SLAB.
Never seen that graphic before, but poor Glyph
@ Socrates McSporran
You could have Willie Rennie as ‘Oor Wullie’ providing he keeps the bucket on his heid. Carmichael and Murray could fight it oot for the part o’ Fat Bob.
Love all these suggestions for the Sunday Post characters.
We need a Soapy Soutar and wee Eck!
Curran is really the original style ‘Keyhole Kate’ surely.
I thought it was just a fringe, but no, we’re all Nazis now.
JK Rowling, June 2014:
“In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that I am friendly with individuals involved with both the Better Together Campaign and the Yes Campaign, so I know that there are intelligent, thoughtful people on both sides of this question. However, I also know that there is a fringe of nationalists who like to demonise anyone who is not blindly and unquestionably pro-independence and I suspect, notwithstanding the fact that I’ve lived in Scotland for twenty-one years and plan to remain here for the rest of my life, that they might judge me ‘insufficiently Scottish’ to have a valid view. It is true that I was born in the West Country and grew up on the Welsh border and while I have Scottish blood on my mother’s side, I also have English, French and Flemish ancestry. However, when people try to make this debate about the purity of your lineage, things start getting a little Death Eaterish for my taste.”
JK Rowling’s twitter Likes, 17 Jan 2016:
link to 3.bp.blogspot.com
carmicheal is a shoe in fer soapy soutar, a veritable Teflon don of the bbc
alex got pillored for liking the opposition to beano characters, ie lord snooties
I preferred vis masel’
eg, Gordon brown in the role of terryfukcwit
Scottish labours problem is that it isn’t really “Scottish” labour. It’s the labour party in Scotland. It’s not really autonomous and its powers, if we are talking about the Holyrood sub-branch, are defined by the Scotland act.
It can’t really do anything unless it has guidance from Westminster. At this time, the UK party is dysfunctional and riven by internal division. The sub branch is also blinded by a hatred of the SNP that leads it to constantly position itself to the opposite of the SNP. No matter how deranged this makes them look.
Add in a milquetoast leader like Dugdale, had a hint of failure to come to terms with the significance of their defeat in May – and you pretty much have Labour in Scotland.
It’s in a bad place. Doesn’t know what it stands for. Relies on a diet of SNP=BAD stories from the media to keep its morale up. Makes knuckle draggingly stupid attacks on the SNP, based on statistics it hasn’t read through properly. Keeps announcing spending plans based on the non-cutting of a tax, that will magically bring in extra money. Talks a load of pish about being in a one party state but oblivious to the irony that it is free to campaign for votes – because you know…democracy. But for me the real damage was that they reduced themselves to a cypher, which in a way is what Glyph is. They did this by creating the impression that their ideology and opposition to the tories was simply political theater. Strip it away and what you are left with is an organisation that exists simply to keep Scotland in the union. This last one is my own opinion based on the last 5 years…frankly its the only thing that fits. It may be too neat a theory but its one I am happy to roll with for now.
mundell a shoe in for spoilt bastard
Alan Of Neilston said at 1pm regarding the BBC Sunday Politics Show— Gordon Brewer interviewing Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey :-
“How can you and the Labour Party support Trident renewal when the 2 biggest parties in Scotland ie S.N.P. and Scottish Labour are against it”.
“Wait for it– LEN replies that that does not matter because its the British Labour Party that counts!!” [!!!!]
Out of the mouths of babes……………… 🙁
SNPx2 in May.
I think Nicola and Alex would make good Beano characters.
Nicola Sturgeon as Minnie the Minx and Alex Salmond as Dennis the Menace, Stuart Hosie as Gnasher!
Just caught Murray’s physog again in the Herald…must be a contender for wee Eck. Get him a wee bunnet.
Has Sturgeon spoken to the Unite Union conference yet?
Nothing in the news. 🙂
Must be tomorrow news.
Taranaich said: “Wish I could agree, Rev, I really do. But here in Inverclyde, the Glyph Party can still rely on ten thousand votes from people who still think they mean something – whether they still think they’re the party their grandparents voted for, or simply because they still think they’re the only ones that can stop the Tories/SNP/Hitler/Franco/whoever.”
Not sure how we reach these people or if they are even reachable? Can’t we print something up and leaflet these areas showing just what rubbish Labour have come up with, showing the actual true facts and links to proving those?
My Pakistani pal who’s runs the local shop is more Scottish than Jakey Rollerpin
That woman has no clue
I really can’t get my head round corbyns solution to trident, build the subs so the workers don’t lose their jobs, but don’t put missiles in the subs.
If the thick of it was still on, we would think it’s a documentary instead of parody of politics.
It would be cheaper to pay the workers to stay at home and watch TV than build the subs.
That would be the most expensive job creation ever.
Surely it would be better spending 120 billion on infrastructure to create 1000s of jobs than keeping a few hundred in a job.
@mumsyhugs says: 17 January, 2016 at 12:55 pm:
“Talking of changing policies … the latest from Mr Corbyn apparently is we could have still have Trident subs, but just without the nuclear warheads! :)”
Which, of course, is rather like the Labour Party itself – a totally pointless existence.
What good is a nuclear missile carrier without nuclear weapons? What does the numptie propose the missiles carry?
Labour Party leaflets with the word, “BANG!”,printed on them?
A relatively slow day, if your bored and have some time to spare, well worth a watch of the Independence Live broadcast of:
“Ivan McKee adoption night for SNP” from Friday past.
Speakers are Tommy Shepherd, Humza Yousaf, Elaine C Smith and of course Ivan McKee.
link to livestream.com
@
I Clark says:
17 January, 2016 at 1:40 pm
” … Yet, on the other hand, I think we are becoming largely indifferent to it. If it wasn’t for the state broadcaster, British Labour in Scotland would probably be merely background noise.”
Nah! SLAB are indeed irrelevant now – that, “Background Noise”, you are hearing is coming from BBC channels on the speakers of your Radio & TV sets.
Thepnr
“Surely though you need an intellectual, know it all for the role of Horace?
I propose John McTernan!
No Torrance, surely
”Ballad of the Glyph” … great … and how apt as are Socrates comments at 12:09 pm … ”SLAB really has become the living version of The Broons – living in a Scotland which, if it ever existed, no longer does.”
I hope you realise that you’ve probably caused even more infighting and backstabbing now Socrates. You’ll have annoyed wee Daphne Baillie and stirred up her jealousy and animosity towards Maggie Curran once again. Akin to Kezia Dugdale’s jealousy of Nicola and her dream (our nightmare) of being First Minister.
A couple of videos that highlight the type of communication and mathematical problems faced by Slab.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
Len McCluskey also stated he would do all in his power to protect the jobs at Faslane and Coulport, so the workers can sleep safely in their beds tonight folks.
That effectively also means hundreds of multiple warhead nukes will still be stored at the foot of their gardens, but ne’er mind, sleep safely.
FFS The man’s an arse.
Notice how he always speaks in a Jabba Bailey voice ……smiley and sincerely.
They must have went to the same school of lying!!
David Torrence? Wrong party john king 🙂
Would make a good Joe 90 though!
Worth considering the odds available from a bookie …
SNP fail to win all constituencies 1/6
SNP win all constituencies 7/2
In other words the bookies think it fairly unlikely that the SNP will win all constituency seats. So we all have to ask ourselves, which regions will the SNP fall short on? Because, where this happens, SNP+SNP is essential to minimise the chances of a Unionist getting the final seat (or even final two) of that region’s seven list seats.
Inverclyde has a larger-than-average elderly population and smaller-than-average young population – and the declining population means the older people tend to be staying while young ones leave for pastures new. Plus we have a red-led council who have cracked down on political advertising etc.
We did well in the GE (24k SNP and “only” 13k for the Other Party), but I’d much rather we continued to grow than rest on our laurels.
Thepnr.4.37pm. It’s not ‘your bored’, it’s ‘you’re bored’.
Neil Cook 1.35pm. It’s not ‘there heads’, it’s ‘their heads’.
(This is a dirty job, but someone has to do it)
I hope you now realize that you’re posts are now going too half two be perfect.
Glad I missed that balloon McCluskey, but hope anyone with any regard for him, have finally woken up.
That comic strip reminds me of growing up in Paisley, and discovering Yankee Mags – a treasure trove. I was a bit obsessed with the Mad comics.
Had a good old trudge in the snow with my dogs, healthier than ol Brewer, but glad to hear he was suitably stunned at Len’s slap in the face.
My favourite ever piece of working class sci-Fi graphic novel writing. It centres on a working class unemployed woman trying to escape the schemes. It’s a brilliant piece of work from 2000ad.
(This is a dirty job, but someone has to do it)
You don’t put a comma before but either, The Rough Bounds 😀
Taranaich
You may have noticed the last big event Inverclyde Labour had in Greenock Town Centre. Only 4 (FOUR) of them out getting signatures for something. These things are noticed by the public.
At a grassroots level they have very few feet on the streets and no interest in the SNP Bad myth.
As Labour (Branch Office (Tufty Club Membership pending)) don’t have any policies it will be very easy for them to be shown up for what and who they are at any local debates.
McNeil got in by the seat of his pants last time. His potential Labour replacement will not have the same 511 vote luxury.
Kezia is an SNP plant on a mission to destroy the Labour Party. She is doing such a great job she will be asked to return to base soon.
since the battle of subway, slab only do private events with bussed in crowds. indeed, all parties use this technique, walkabouts are a thing of the past. unless of course, you are the snp
@The Rough Bounds
Thepnr.4.37pm. It’s not ‘your bored’, it’s ‘you’re bored’.
I stand corrected, as important as you may believe it was to correct me, I think the message from the speakers in the video is of greater importance.
Did you watch it? Elaine C Smith was particularly good, starting at 35:52
link to livestream.com
You’re welcome. 35:52 in remember 🙂
@heedtracker
You don’t put a comma before but either, The Rough Bounds ?
LOL. Telt, don’t take it personally The Rough Bounds but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
The Rough Bounds wrote:
“Thepnr.4.37pm. It’s not ‘your bored’, it’s ‘you’re bored’.
Neil Cook 1.35pm. It’s not ‘there heads’, it’s ‘their heads’.
(This is a dirty job, but someone has to do it)”
May i suggest a name change from The Rough Bounds to Post Polis?
🙂
The problem with pedantry is that is always get’s caught out by, err, pedantry 😉
Re resolution foundation survey on Scots pay, it is essential that SNPmembers who are employers pay the Living Wage and before we buy anything we ask the shop or supplier if they pay the Living Wage. As a mass movement ideally posed question employers would be embarrassed not to pay it. We can do something our government can’t do because we have the force of numbers. Every SNP branch should call on its members to pose the question. If they do so we shall transform fair pay.
The problem with pedantry, is that is always gets caught out by, er, pedantry. 😀
Walter Scott@11.50,
Reminds me of the only copy of Electric Soup that I bought in 1992, I think. There was a parody of the Broons, called, I think, the Greens. There was one sketch where the Bairn announced that Grandpa was having a FIGHT. So, with coat tails flying, they all ran to Grandpas house, to find him with his trousers down, reading the Sunday Post, with bog paper around his feet. To which they laughed out loud and said, “Ho, ho Bairn, Grandpas not having a FIGHT, Grandpas having a SHITE”.
Stephen.
Well that’s it then we’re going to build 3 trident subs at vast expense and arm them with dummy pretendy missiles to keep the col. Blimps and adm. Pugwashes happy, a the strength of better together, bet the old unionists are wetting themselves with excitement.
“EBC reporter telling us about the “SUBS WITH NO GEAR” “Japan has non neuclear suds that don’t carry trident missiles, but this could be looked at” WTF does that mean? The EBC are in melt down.
They really have lost it. SNP X 2
@ David Agnew says at 3:47pm …….. ’’Strip it away and what you are left with is an organisation that exists simply to keep Scotland in the union. This last one is my own opinion based on the last 5 years … frankly its the only thing that fits. It may be too neat a theory but it’s one I am happy to roll with for now.’’
Great post David and your comment ”(SLab) is an organisation that exists simply to keep Scotland in the union” is the essence of it for me too David.
Labour (Tory and Libdem) politicians in Scotland are just paid servile supporters of their ever changing bosses ‘political superiors’ down south. Superiors that they don’t seem to agree with, when is suits them, just as their superiors south of the border don’t seem able to agree with each other either. In turn we are all faced with witnessing constant changes to prior (before you vote for them) guaranteed policies, no policies at all and continual internal bickering and back stabbing all of which has been going on for decades now.
However to my mind we can put the damage that they have wrought right across the UK, the lies that they have told, the broken promises, their befuddled ideology, the enigma of their ermine robed and so on to the back burner, as the bottom line is this why would anyone try to influence Scots to vote for a Union that has created one of the most inequitable Countries in the Civilised World where the rich get richer every day as the poor get poorer? More than anything why would the ‘Party of the working man (and woman) do so?
Some people may think that the ‘rich getting richer …..’ tenet applies only to the Tories but this is a fallacy: A fallacy promoted far and wide by Labour polticians. The following excerpt from a High Pay Centre article highlights that the Labour Party are every bit as culpable for this horrendous situation as the Tories (and Libdems) and I’ve used this (and McCrone and Stolen Seas) to great effect when trying to ‘convert’ NO, more so undecided, voters especially when time is short.
‘’Since 1960, Britain has gone from being more economically equal than Sweden to being one of the most unequal countries in the developed world. Of the 32 members of the Organisation for Economic Income inequality in the UK Co-operation and Development (OECD), only Portugal, Israel, the United States, Turkey, Mexico and Chile are more unequal than the UK.’’ …………..
‘’Simply, for the millions of people comprising the poorest fifth of our population, life is much worse here than it is for the poorest fifth in virtually every other north-west European country – countries we would like to think of as our equals. In fact, the living standards of the poorest fifth of people in the UK are much closer to those of the poorest in countries like Slovenia (average income for the poorest 20% of households, $9,138) and the Czech Republic ($8,378). This was not inevitable. This has come about because we made political and economic choices that set us on the path of greater inequality.’’…………………
‘’The value of the difference in the income share of the 1% in the UK compared to more equal countries would be worth thousands of pounds in additional income to ordinary households.”
link to highpaycentre.org
link to highpaycentre.org
Compare what you earn in a year to the average FTSE 100 CEO.
link to highpaycentre.org
link to highpaycentre.org
link to highpaycentre.org
Am I correct in hearing Len McCluskey say something about 50% of the money raised in Council tax goes on paying the debt or something like that?
Will this be the debt Labour put on the public purse with PFI contracts?
Also Farage on the Brillo show talking about project fear in the Scottish Referendum.
Having to watch those programmes again, I am losing the will to live.
panel base poll on stv
People in Scotland are overwhelmingly against an EU exit, by 65% to 35%, in contrast to people in England who are narrowly in favour by 53% to 47%, a Panelbase poll for for the Sunday Times and Heart FM indicates
which in ungarbled English is
IN/OUT
Scotland
65% to 35%
England
47% to 53%
no idea what this bollox means
“She would have the backing of 54% for another referendum if the UK votes to leave the EU, the poll of 1053 voters in Scotland and 1034 adults in England and Wales suggests”
however, they clearly show that if Scotland is bulled out of the eu against its wishes, which is looking likely
“the Yes to independence campaign would win the day by 52% – up seven points on the 45% who voted Yes in 2014 and five points on the 47% who say they would vote for independence anyway in the poll.”
game changer, ? what is the time table if the euref is in sept?
Effijy says:
17 January, 2016 at 2:35 pm
…
Sorry but this is just more sub defuse to make gullible Scots
think that maybe they are better together. They are not!
We have over 400,000 Scots working for less than the minimum wage
We have Circa 180,000 Scots unemployed, and there are no doubt 10’s of Thousands who do not have a job, but the Tories find a way of removing them from the figures by sanctioning etc.
Think that you’re wrong there, Effijy. The source is the Resolution Foundation – not an obviously unionist source. And what they’re arguing is that living standards are now higher in Scotland than in London for ordinary workers. I’m happy to claim that this is what comes of having a government that isn’t automatically on the side of the posh boys.
The EBC are in melt down.
They really have lost it. SNP X 2
Indeed they have.
Scotland land, the only land in the known universe where the hard core toryboy yoons rage, “tax me more SNPbad”
euan mccolm
?@euanmccolm
the snp’s council tax freeze has helped the wealthy for long enough. time for it to end. my @scotonsunday column:
G. Campbell says:
17 January, 2016 at 3:13 pm
I thought it was just a fringe, but no, we’re all Nazis now.
..
JK Rowling’s twitter Likes, 17 Jan 2016:
link to 3.bp.blogspot.com
That’s awful.
She is a disgrace.
I wonder if JK will be making a large donation to the REMAIN in the EU campaign.
UK has 10 times the population, so a donation of £10 million will be needed to have the same impact.
Any day now I am sure..
That’s awful.
She is a disgrace.
I wonder if JK will be making a large donation to the REMAIN in the EU campaign.
She’s an English nationalist.
She knows England will lose a lot when Scotland does become a nation state and that’s what really motivates most if not all unionists in their Scotland region, red or blue tory. That’s why she spent a million bettertogether quid.
Schrodingers cat@8.08pm
They were seriously talking about holding the European Referendum on 22nd June 2016. But of course, talk is cheap, especially from Unionists.
Stephen.
I’ll not be surprised if the EU Ref is on the anniversary of the 1966 World Cup.
Heedtracker at 7.32
Don’t you mean erm, pedantry?
If the price of oil is always bad for Scotland
When is the price of oil ever bad for England because they always say, but good for the UK, but we’re in the UK
And they never mention Wales or Norn Ireland do they not count or are they counted as England too
I’m always completely confused as to why oil is good for everybody else except me
Cameron said petrol was 99pence a litre at PMQs
Not where I live mate £1.09 Is that when it becomes Scottish oil
I love The Ballad Of Halo Jones. Can’t see Labour getting that emotional any time soon.
tartanarse says:
17 January, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Heedtracker at 7.32
Don’t you mean erm, pedantry?
…”it” rather than “is”, too…
I don’t know about pedantry, but with the death of Labour Peer Lord Janner, the establishment is trying to bury pederasty.
Good old Westminster, bend over and think of England, especially if you have just become a boarder at Eton. “Cream Tea”, with the headmaster at 4. Oerr Matron.
Stephen.
@schrodingers cat
That video I posted earlier had Tommy Shepherd saying this:
“Now I believe that the September referendum we had in 2014. I believe we need to respect that result and we do not go in quickly for another referendum. We don’t seek a mandate in the next election to have that.
We have a period of grace if you like but please understand this. A vote on a ballot paper is but just one process to becoming Independent. Although we may not have a referendum in the next five years, the journey towards it has to continue.”
I like Tommy Shepherd, one of the good guys but what kind of fool would rule out the possibility of another referendum?
That worries me to an extent, we can not afford to take another referendum in future off the menu. Surely the threat of one is what keeps the pressure on?
Tell you what, the SNP better have a plan B if they fail to include the possibility of a future referendum at a time of their choosing in their manifesto. Absolute madness in my view.
Just imagine having to go back to the Scottish electorate and ask if it’s OK to have a referendum now that we seem to be winning but we forgot to ask you in May 2016.
Absolute fucking madness, who will complain if the SNP state absolutely unequivocally “WE SUPPORT INDEPENDENCE AND WILL DO SO FOR AS LONG AS THERE ARE 100 LEFT STANDING”?
No one, other than Unionists. Bollocks to a period of grace. A second referendum will be at the time of OUR choosing. That’s why we are electing you SNP MSP’s. You are OUR parliament, don’t go making the big mistake of thinking you know better else you might find yourself out on your arse in 2020.
Nobodies asking for another referendum until the time is right, all I’m asking is that you don’t get into difficulties by not including at least the option to hold one as a time of OUR choosing.
You have no idea where you will be next year, never mind 4 years time. To shut the door on what is your stated primary goal would in my opinion at least, be a massive blunder.
The massive rise in your support is solely due to people like me abandoning other parties in the belief that the SNP will result in a better governance for the people of Scotland. All the people of Scotland.
I still believe that, better governance though will only come about after Independence. Keep that door open at all costs.
It is the Independence argument that has you where you are now.
Dcanmore at 12.32
I generally agree but it is entirely possible to campaign on your own policies without implicitly attacking the positions of others who are generally, on the overarching ambition, on same side as you. It is very easy to say there are a number of opinions on this or that and here is ours. We think it is better.
There is a worrying political naivety about many in the RISE campaign.
Something for Rough Bounds…
Derek says:
17 January, 2016 at 9:04 pm
tartanarse says:
17 January, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Heedtracker at 7.32
Check the original, Derek?
It will be poetic justice if the Scottish vote keeps the rest of the UK in EU.
Home Rule immediately? Another EU Ref in the rest of the UK. Can hear the howls already. Or will EVEL prevail. Westminster Unionists will be wishing the promises on FFA, Home Rule, Federalism had been honoured.
Can McCluskey and Co not get round the idea of building liners, ferries, supply boats, frigates and wind turbines. These are needed, instead of spending £10Billion a year on Trident. Diversify. £10Billion+ the amount Scotland hands over to Westminster a year to squander. For policies the majority in Scotland do not vote.
That is SO sad! The Glyph…(NOT SLAB)!
@Ken500
“It will be poetic justice if the Scottish vote keeps the rest of the UK in EU.”
It’s funny, I just logged in to pose this very scenario. A very close vote south of the border and a much clearer mandate up here for the opposite outcome! I do wonder what the reaction would be then!
Gary 45%
The Council tax raises les than 20% of the total local govt spend, the rest comes from SG.
Dip pity says that Westminster should write off pre devo debt which is charged at 8%
I agree with her for once but since Westminster has no intention of doing this what’s stopping Local councils borrowing at 2or 3% and paying off the Westminster loans?
I do wonder what the reaction would be then!
The Scots save ukok toryboy bacon, Cameron especially.
Who is Brian Spammer?
On the issue of another Referendum, the SNP hierarchy should cease softening us up for a long wait. I’ve seen too many confederates wait their life for the first only to die soon afterwards.
Re EngExit.
I see that in Northern Ireland 58% want to stay in the EU. I do wonder if they like the EU enough to consider reunification in Europe rather than being dragged with by England.
Cameron might well destroy the UK trying to appease anti European Tories and trying to out manoeuvre UKIP. It might all come unstuck for him … hopefully 🙂
Yup, did; second “is”. Just joining in with the general mood, like…
Want to ask my fellow wingers here a question as its been doing my heid in! On three or four occasions over a long period l have posted the following comment on various MSM sites and other threads and I have had multiple yoons going mental calling me racist and had the comment pulled after complaints, just tell it to me straight if I’m out of order as I cannot see it. Maybe iAM being racist! “The English woman who gave a million quid to deny Scottish self determination” well?!
Flew off on one earlier as you can see. Having read it again and calmed down somewhat I’ll just say this to emphasise the point.
No one can critisise the SNP for including a commitment to another referendum “if the people request one”.
This has been Nicola Sturgeons position all along, might be a bit more difficult to actually do in practise is the SNP do not have a mandate.
At least that will be the argument against us having one.
There have to be some arguing not to include it in the manifesto, they will have their reasons no doubt. Having the option though does not mean you need to use it. It is an option.
I’ve always believed in keeping my options open. Seems like a sensible idea. You know when you leave a job you always try to leave on the best of terms. Never shutting the door behind you.
We shouldn’t either and neither should Nicola.
@Joemcg
I can see where the Yoons are coming from on this one.
Saying “Scottish self determination” is a bit strong and confrontational. It’s a wee bit of a criticism of the democratic credentials of UKOKland. You might have been safer saying “Scottish separation” to appease Yoonery.
Joemcg: “Maybe iAM being racist!
It is fair to describe the whole of Europe as racist. Just look at what they are up to now closing borders and repatriating migrant workers and refugees.
As a way of shutting down dissent and narrowing the debate Unionists are apt to claim all the plebiscite amounts to is verification Scots hate English, and therefore we are racist. End of. They think an unequal nation in an uncomfortable, out-dated union has nothing to do with it.
Unfortunately for Unionists the man they like to quote a lot, George Orwell, described English as racist for their dislike of foreigners, or Johnny Foreigner, as they call anybody with a skin darker than a caramel. Farage is the modern manifestation of a suspicion of non-English.
As for JK Rowling, she’s entitled to an opinion but not to voice it the way she did. That was reprehensible. She counselled attrition against her host nation. I do not see why she should be left unchallenged for the gross insult.
And she is an incomer, or a settler as some would have it. Unionists go ballistic at that description pointing out Scots settle in England. England is England, not governed or owned or taxed by Scotland, while Scotland, a separate nation, is governed by England.
Hi Aranciaca,
“what they’re arguing is that living standards are now higher in Scotland than in London for ordinary workers. I’m happy to claim that this is what comes of having a government that isn’t automatically on the side of the posh boys”.
This comment is a bit ambiguous for me, but I’d like to advise you of a job in London advertised this week that offered to pay £13.75 per hour for manually packing cardboard cartons.
If you can find a manual factory worker, without additional skills on £5.00 per hour less, I’d be astonished.
The average London wage is £20,500 more than the UK average
link to metro.co.uk
Sorry for o/t
Just been looking up `for` and `against` in Indy Ref,as is my want after an afternoon watching the fitba in boozer,
i have to apologise to Gerard Butler who i thought was a No but turns our he was a patriot, unlike Ewan Macgregor and Rod Stewart,
but best of all was Groundskeeper Willie from The Simpsons,who ripped off his shirt to reveal the words,
“AYE OR DIE” printed on his chest.
“That’s not a tattoo; it’s a birthmark,” he declared.
With regard to the earlier posts and Tommy Shepherd’s comments
about respecting the referendum decision,
Although I want Independence tomorrow, I would agree with the latest poll which still shows the No’s marginally ahead.
If another referendum date was fixed, I feel sure that the elderly
majority, who do not access social media, and who are more susceptible to scaremongering would again accept the UK media onslaught of lies and deceit.
Most regrettably, I cannot see an Independence vote winning until
a significant number of these people are replaced on the voter’s
role by the new generation.
It would also help if the Hootsman has been extinguished and
the Dire Redcoat has half its current circulation.
We might just have the required number in 2021-22, but not sooner
NOT having a commitment to indyref2 in the manifesto carries as much risk as having a commitment to indyref2 in the manifesto
we need to keep our options open, ergo we have a conditional commitment, the condition is the wishes of the people of Scotland.
the eu referendum bill still needs to go through parliament, 6 weeks at least, july and august are out of the question so September looks likely
we need to see the result of the EU ref before we commit to indyref2, it would be madness to do otherwise.
if the euref is an out, then we cannot call indyref2 before the council elections in may 2017. indeed, if we do not control all 32 councils then we may not be able to call indyref2 at all. the councils run all elections and referendum. indyref2 wouldnt be valid if eg, glasgow didnt get to vote.
Well it seems to me Joe, that it is a fact that she may be ‘English’, but whether that is relevant in terms of her giving money to the Better Together campaign is ‘questionable’.
We don’t tend to go around saying a ‘Scottish’ couple gave money to the Yes campaign, everyone knows the names of respective donors…so I would be hesitant in placing emphasis on the ‘nationality’ of anyone.
But….
I can obviously ‘see’ where you are coming from, but others of a less nuanced understanding, in terms of our history with out neighbours et al may not ‘get’ why you are emphasising her ‘English’ness, to make whatever point it is you may be arguing?
Personally I would avoid speaking in such terms, it just fuels that ‘racist’ meme that those not of our outlook love nothing more than jumping on as a bar to further investigation of the more salient reasoning behind our wish for self determination.
Dinnae gie them bullets tae fire at ye, and stick to making arguments without the need to emphasise ‘nationality’, after all there’s mair than enough ‘Scots’ to bitch about regarding their stance and input during the ref, but we don’t go about saying ‘that’Scotsman’Ian Davidson said we jist need tae ‘bayonet the wounded’.
Everyone knows who she is, it’s her politics we’re arguing against no her ‘Englishness’.
Hope that all makes some kinda sense Joe.
Further to the above, just imagine any other country in the world was having the same vote for their independence and a person from an adjoining country gave £1 million to help prevent that country succeeding. It’s just, in my opinion,morally reprehensible. Cannot get my noggin round it! Yet we meekly accepted it.
K1-good points. I would feel the same if it was a high profile Welsh person or Irish person that did a Rowling.
Re: Euro in/out
Does anyone really believe that Westminster will permit the publication of referendum votes by nation/region?
My forecast is that all ballot papers will be spirited off to a central collection point for unattributable counting.
Paranoid? Moi?
@Effijy
“We might just have the required number in 2021-22, but not sooner”
With the greatest of respect your opinion is no more of a guess than mine might be.
What of the poll today in the Sunday Times that stated if the UK leaves the EU despite 65% of Scots voting to remain then Independnce would lead by 52% to 48%?
We really do not have a clue what the future may bring, just our best guesses. Shit there may be another war that Scots totally oppose and want nothing to do with.
We can’t predict the future, that’s why I argue for keeping your options open. Just curious, are you against a commitment to hold a referendum if circumstances justify one such as the above being in the SNP referendum?
@schrodingers cat
Manifestos are always laced with caveats and ambiguities. Why can this year’s SNP manifesto have a short paragraph which states something like this:
“The Scottish National Party remains firmly committed to Scottish Independence and for Scotland to rejoin the other Independent Nations of the world. The Referendum debate and vote in 2014 gave the Scottish electorate an opportunity to consider their constitutional future and they chose at that time to remain in a union with the other nations of the United Kingdom. We accept this democratic decision but retain the right to revisit this constitutional question during the life of this Parliament if there is a significant change in the existing constitutional arrangements of the United Kingdom.”
Would that give then sufficient ‘wriggle room’ without tying their hands to a more firm date or event?
SNP manifesto not referendum, fcuk done that yesterday too. Referendum on the brain. Goodnight 🙂
@birnie
It can be hard not to become paranoid. However, IF there are no exit polls (again), I WILL assume the worst!
Thepnr says:
“I argue for keeping your options open.”
Exactly. Anything could happen. War, as you say. EU, EngExit is possible. Trident renewal. Scotland Bill fiscal arrangements being unacceptable.
It may not be one thing, but several things accumulating and shifting the Yes:No balance faster than anyone expects.
I think the SG needs to be able to call IndyRef2 in response to circumstances none of us can predict.
We NEED an SNP majority in May, and that new SG NEEDS to have a commitment in place to move when necessary.
Tommy Shepherd is a good guy and he holds one man’s opinion the same as everybody else
Whether we have a Referendum or not isn’t his decision that’s why he’s got a boss
Jakey Rollingpin isn’t English, she’s British, unless she decides she’s been insulted, then she’s English
Bit like Andy Murray the Scot crashes out of the tournament
As opposed to Britains Andy Murray sees off opponent
See how that works
That’s a ‘salient’ point Joe, it doesn’t matter whether it was Russia or Germany as our neighbor, it’s the fact that our neighbours set about attacking us for wanting our self determination.
The yoons will jump on the word ‘English’ as it fuels their already made up minds, that this is ‘really’ what yer saying. To be honest I couldn’t be arsed having arguments wi that mentality Joe, a waste of time, they simply don’t see the situation in those terms.
Ergo they are Unionist in outlook…and can’t appreciate what’s blatantly ‘wrong’ wi the Union: the history of deceit, lies and obsfucation that sits at the core of this unequal and abusive ‘partnership’.
They simply don’t ‘think’ about the proposition for independence in these terms. They see themselves as ‘British’ joe, and view those of us who want a different set up as ‘trouble makers’.
When I meet ‘hardened’ thinkers, I always remind myself when arguing any point with them: ‘A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still’.
If it’s turning into a ‘scrap’, best tae walk away, unless of course ye like a scrap 😉
OT Bella ‘jumped the shark’ or just temporary depressive episode?
Hi Tony Little.
Well put, re: the manifesto inclusion.
I was trying to put together something similar but unsuccessfully.
If there is not at least the option of an indyref2 in the manifesto then SNP support will instantaneously evaporate.
Indy support will not go away however, but will rather coalesce on another vehicle and most likely one with a rather more ‘oomph’ to use modern parlance.
@ Thepnr
I heard Tommy Sheppard speak a couple of weeks ago; unfortunately I can’t remember his exact words to tell you, but afterwards I felt reassured that here was certainly one prominent member of the SNP who had not gone soft on independence (it was just after some people here had been accusing them of that).
Perhaps he says slightly different things to different groups of people!
Bugsbunny;
Haha. Brilliant.
@crazycat
As I said I really do like Tommy Shepherd but those were his own words this Friday past, just listen for yourself.
I’ll tell you now, I’d be the last person to try and put words into others mouths. Just writing that which I heard.
Birnie; 11:25
I agree. That method of counting the in/out you mention could well be used. Maybe I’m paranoid too. However there were some jaw dropping stunts before the indyref vote by a scared establishment. You can’t rule it out.
Mr Bunny.
The Greens were a spoof of the Broons by Frank Quitely who has since gone on to be a mega star in the very large Scottish constellation which exists in the Comic World/Superhero/Holywood/Marvel/DC firmament.
Yes, Ahm ur a comic fanboy.
@ Thepnr
I wasn’t doubting/criticizing you! I hope it didn’t come across like that.
I was just sharing a slightly different experience which might redeem him a bit (or not). 🙂
BTW, the Oscar candidate ‘ The Intern’ (Robert De Niro) uses the vicarious meal participation meme to illustrate the analogous ‘invisibility’ of old age. Something I myself am coming to terms with. (65th birthday today).
@crazycat
I guessed that was the case 🙂
@Chic McGregor
Happy Birthday Chic! Lang may yer lum reek and I mean that.
In regard to Labour’s shifting policy positions
What I found interesting in yesterday’s Sunday herald was Dugale’s call for the treasury to cancel the interest payments of Scottish councils debts pre-devolution.
Does she seriously believe fro one single moment that George Osborne is going to be prepared to do this?
It also raises the question why didn’t Labour in its thirteen in Government not cancel the interest payments
Thanks Thepnr.
@Chic
Happy birthday Chic, and many happy returns. I find myself still struggling to cope with hitting the six-oh last year. What looked like a slippery slope suddenly looks like a sheer cliff! 😀
Happy birthday Chic. Here is to lots more lead in your pencil
🙂
Chris McGregor – Happy Birthday youngster!
the writer must be a fan of neil munros para handy. the space ship is called clara pandy!
“The only solution to that is to nail the party’s colours to some masts and keep them there for years”
That or engrave them on an Ed Milliband style tombstone
Thanks all.
It is always nice to meet fans of 2000AD, the best comic ever, I still have mine.
See you later thrill suckers!
That means I will be avoiding all UKOK outpourings!
I’ll stick this in here, because it’s towards the end of activity on this page, and I’ll get it off my chest.
When ‘The Hornet’ was launched by DC Thomson in the early 60s, I started buying it. Each week, after I had read it, I glued the copies down the staple side and amassed a stuck together collection of the first 100 issues, which were in a cupboard in my bedroom.
My Mum did her usual…
If she hadn’t seen me playing with something, like the Tri-Ang Railways stuff and the Scalextric, or reading something – books/comics/magazines – for six months or so, she would give them away to younger cousins.
God knows what happened to my Hornets; they just disappeared. Same with my Just William books, Eagles, Fantastics, TV21’s, Look & Learns, Mad Magazines…
I still have the pennant that was a freebie with the first issue of Fantastic though, complete with the insert of ‘The Mighty Thor’.
I was just wondering how much of our £145.50 licence fee tax the BBC pay these professional opinion formers.
It is a salutary lesson.
The BBC pay people that go on Newsnight et al., quite a lot of money when you add up all the Unionist “experts” that get onto these bias programmes…
Feast your eyes on what the BBC pay the Unionist talking heads…
link to archive.is