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Scottish politics in numbers

Posted on October 25, 2017 by

Percentage of A&E patients in Scotland in 2017 to date seen within four hours (target 95%), described by Labour MSP Colin Smyth as a “deeply troubling” figure: 94%

Percentage of the vote on which Mr Smyth was elected as an MSP in 2016: 8.9%

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    1025 to “Scottish politics in numbers”

    1. Heather McLean says:

      “Percentage of the vote on which Mr Smyth was elected as an MSP in 2016: 8.9%”

      Aye! Deeply troubling indeed!

    2. Betty Boop says:

      I’m deeply troubled by that 8.9%! Labour in crisis or what?…

    3. James Ormiston says:

      I’ve just been to hospital for a scan and I was seen 1 hour earlier than my appointed time… brilliant Scottish NHS.

    4. Bert Logan says:


      Labour … <-

    5. Brian Powell says:

      Then they must be in total, cataclysmic, nuclear meltdown over their party’s performance as government in Wales.

    6. Dr Jim says:

      I’m more deeply troubled by Mundells Scottish office staff rising from 5 to 71 and the “confusion” over where Scotlands powers are to go, if any

      Taking back control?

    7. Macart says:

      Good grief!

      Does he not have a sock drawer that needs rearranging?

    8. Robert Roddick says:

      The party of Keir Hardie and RB Cunninghame-Graham is sadly reduced to a laughing stock.

    9. Legerwood says:

      I noticed on the Twitter feed that someone asked what the A&E figures were when Labour was in power 1999- 2007.

      There are no such figures because until 2006 A&E stats were collected once per year – in April.

      The figures were collected over a 3 to 7 day period from a core group of hospitals – note core group not all hospitals with an A&E.

      From June 2006 figures were collected and published quarterly.

      Then the SNP took over and moved to monthly then weekly publication of the stats.

      You can find the weekly and monthly stats reports on ISD Scotland’s website. They usually produce a whole raft of reports on BHS Performance in various areas every Tuesday. The web site usually lists what will be published and when.

      Someone else on Twitter was asking where to find stats on bed blocking. Again it is the ISD site but under delayed discharge which is the official designation.

    10. Bob Mack says:

      I honestly find it alarming that such people have influence on our daily lives. Like others he is actually an unelected buffoon , rejected at the ballot box,but shoed-in by regional votes to prevent an overall majority in Scotland by any party.

      I expect at least a modicum of intelligence from those in a position to govern us. Alas ,it usually is a forlorn hope.

    11. Phronesis says:

      Danny Dorling writes,

      ‘When considering large Europe countries, for many years it has been the UK which is most economically unequal. In 2015 the arithmetically average household in the best-off 10% of the income distribution in the UK had 17 times more money to live on each year than the arithmetical average household in the poorest tenth of UK society. This seventeen-fold gap is enormous and has only become so large by growing relentlessly decade after decade from the very late 1970s onwards…

      If you ever balk at the brashness and rudeness and stupidity of so many British politicians please understand that it is not entirely their fault that they are so often so awful. They were brought up in Britain at a time when it was becoming a more and more unequal society. This has often affected them adversely. In the worse cases they come to celebrate high inequality as a rewarding of ‘top talent’. It would be funny if the educational implications were not so sad…

      Similarly, better health is enjoyed by older people living in more equitable countries. Middle-aged people are all on average more productive at work and do not need to work as many hours in a week to get by when their pay is more equitable. People in more equitable European countries are far more innovative, they invent more medicines, machines, and make better jobs of managing themselves. And again, on average, everyone in a more equitable European country also pollutes less and consumes more sensibly, eats better and becomes less often obese…

      As yet we have not been able to identify any European country that has suffered any problem from becoming too economically equal. The most economically equal countries in Europe are also those that score most highly on the world happiness index: Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Switzerland. These also happen to be the happiest countries in the world’

      Intelligent politicians, intelligent government promote strong social support (that includes a nationalised health service)only stupid politicians fail to grasp the implications of rising inequality and political disconnect in a hollowed out economy.

      When Scotland is inevitably independent there will be talk of the ‘Scotland Model’ -who will mourn the passing of the dysfunctional, disunited kingdom then.

    12. Calum McKY says:

      Opening his mouth without thinking. The nature of labour is mirroring that of the tories and vice versa.

    13. Yerkitbreeks says:

      It’s going to be a bit like chapping on doors versus Tory MSM and targeted Facebook hits – ask the punters ( other than thugs and druggies ) who have actually attended Casualty departments how they found the Scottish NHS and you’ll get a very different story

    14. Legerwood says:

      Further to performance of A&E when Labour were in power.

      Extracts From Audit Scotland report on Emergency Departments. Published in 2010

      “”Waiting times targets are in place for all emergency care services. Despite a 31 per cent increase in emergency demand for the ambulance service from 332,474 in 2004/05 to 435,907 in 2008/09, response times improved. In 2008/09, the ambulance service responded to over 70 per cent of life-threatening calls within eight minutes, compared with 55 per cent in 2004/05. There is variation among NHS board areas in response times and this is largely due to challenges in rural areas.””

      “”The number of patients waiting longer than four hours at emergency departments has fallen significantly ….Attendances at emergency departments have increased by nine per cent over the last ten years from 1.39 million in 1999/2000 to 1.52 million in 2008/09….In 2004, the Scottish Executive set a target that by the end of 2007, 98 per cent of patients attending an emergency department should wait no longer than four hours from arrival to admission, transfer or discharge….In the quarter ending March 2010, 96 per cent (365,949) of patients were seen within four hours compared with 88 per cent (334,907) in quarter ending June 2006””

      “”Until 2006, emergency department data in Scotland were collected through an annual national census which covered a three or seven-day period in April. This included an estimate of each hospital’s performance against the four-hour waiting time target. Since April 2006, ISD Scotland has collected data from core sites in the A&E data mart in order to report on the waiting time target. In July 2007, non-core sites were also included within the waiting time target.””

      Note: Labour set the 98% target in 2004 which was to be reached by 2007. In 2006 they were achieving 88% in the quarter ending June 2006.

    15. galamcennalath says:

      A great many things are needed for a functioning European democracy. In Scotland, some are in place, others are totally lacking. We have an effective government and ruling party but they operate in very difficult circumstances. They succeed despite the system.

      All parties and politicians owe allegiance to voters and the nation. Nope.

      You need multiple parties with a range of policies. Nope.

      Politicians need to be competent enough to be elected then do their jobs. Nope.

      You need a balanced media. Nope.

      You need an impartial state broadcaster to report, inform and educate. Nope.

      … and THAT should be what is DEEPLY TROUBLING !

    16. Clive Scott says:

      I owe my own life (twice), the life of my wife (twice) and the life of my elder son (thrice) to the emergency departments of NHS hospitals in Scotland. The daily traducing of NHS services by the red and blue Tories is preposterous. I long for the SNP to be much more robust in their response to the red and blue Tory vomit.

    17. gus1940 says:

      I wonder how many of Fluffy’s 71 minions are Scots.

    18. Labour again trying to imply failure with success they are the lowest of the low they have been betraying the people for years and doing it with a smile on their faces how any one with any brains can vote for them is beyond me the only grace they have is disgrace and the only honour is dishonour Corbin promising things that the SNP has already introduced and has up and running who honestly believes Scotland would have all the things the people now enjoy if we were ruled by any of the unionist parties ??? They have no shame and can never won an honest debate so they resort to lying and some of them still have the cheek to go to a church on Sunday’s

    19. Free Scotland says:

      Red rosette on a donkey.

      What’s also deeply troubling is that the paper from which the above snippet was taken – the Scotsman – is still being bought

    20. Greannach says:

      I hadn’t heard of this Colin Smyth character before today and I find it “deeply troubling” that any political party is home to such a dimwit.

    21. Desimond says:

      Basically, there is no need to watch BBC Scotland news now.

      Thanks for the SPOILER alert Rev,,,not!

    22. manandboy says:

      Unionism is a brain cancer to Scotland and only Independence will cure it – even then it will probably take some time.
      Bonnie Scotland – Aye,
      Bonnie Scots – Aye, many, but the BritNat Tory/Labour No voters, Nah.

    23. Welsh Sion says:

      Greannach says:
      25 October, 2017 at 12:13 pm
      I hadn’t heard of this Colin Smyth character before today and I find it “deeply troubling” that any political party is home to such a dimwit.


      Feels at home in (“Scottish”) Labour, tho., no doubt! (And them with him.)

    24. Ken500 says:

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Killing and maiming millions of vulnerable people. Wasting £Trns of public money. £Trns in debt. Sanctioning and starving people. Wasting money like there is no tomorrow on grotesque projects of no value, Fifty years of lying Labour. A bunch of corrupt rotten crooks, Most of them should be in jail.

    25. Petra says:

      Time for a fundraiser folks to send Labour MSP scunner Colin Smyth on an extended tour of England and Labour controlled Wales.


      @ gus1940 say at 12:03 pm …. ”I wonder how many of Fluffy’s 71 minions are Scots.”

      And that applies right across the board Gus in relation to our Universities, public schools, tourist industry, head of key organisations and so on. Every time there’s a vacancy a wee phone call or email is made / sent off to cronies south of the border. ”No don’t worry. I’m on the board and the job is yours. Pack your bags and head north.” As thousands of Scots have to leave the country every year to find a half decent job elsewhere.


      Just watching Ian Blackford bring up the Felber case with T May asking her to meet with the US couple’s MP. He outlined that they have spent £400,00 of their savings (all as far as I know) on buying / upgrading a B&B to award winning standards, that they are decent members of their community but are being thrown out of the country by the Home Office. She says that there is no problem with the UK immigration policy if it’s controlled, as Hammond, Rudd and Johnston sitting smirking in the background clearly wallowing in having the power and control. It would sicken you to the back teeth. They’re determined to carry on with their Clearances Policy … part two … or is it three, four or five?


      David Davis seems to think that the UK will get a tariff free deal. I’m beginning to think that David Icke isn’t balmy at all when he says that they are shape-shifting reptilian lizards from outer space.

    26. Anne Marie McNulty says:

      Rev I’m sure they only come out with these statements cos they know you’ll pick it up and they’ll get a mention on WOS.

    27. ScottishPsyche says:

      While the Labour Party in Scotland is rightly ridiculed on social media for their outlandish claims and faux outrage, they are given time and space on MSM to make these claims unquestioned. That is the real scandal and until our media addresses that we have to counter in every way we can.

      O/T An interesting comment in the National by Thom Muir on the huge increase in SO Comms spending and staff:

      It raises the interesting point that they might not be simply retweeting produce with Union Flags on everything all day long. Of course, we all remember Fifi LeBonbon, don’t we?

    28. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 25 October, 2017 at 10:59 am:

      “Does he not have a sock drawer that needs rearranging?”

      Of course not – he has, “people”, who do that for him.

    29. Sinclair says:

      Just for comparison, in NHS England, the latest figure published is 89.7% of patients were seen within 4 hours in all A&E departments in September 2017. The figure is 90.3% in August 2017 and 90.6% in September 2016. The last time the 95% target was achieved was last in July 2015.

      The figures for NHS Wales are even worse at an average of 86.6%!

    30. Artyhetty says:

      Weren’t people waiting for hours and hours on trolleys in corridors on Labour’s watch. Remember the people dying of hospital contracted bugs because Labour were contracting cleaning out to inadequate and useless private companies! So, you could wait on a trolley for hours, even if very ill, then die of a bug you caught in hospital, on Labours watch.

      Labour might find it deeply troubling to be reminded of their terrible treatment of our national health service. They were in the business of running it down.


      Yes indeed, and on top of the brand spanking new office next to Edinburgh council offices, opening up with the relocation of nearly 3000 civil servants, from England. When this is happening no idea, but must be going to cost a few £million. Will they build a new civil servant gated village for them all!

    31. Vestas says:

      None of the hospitals in Leicestershire have hit 90% in the last 20 years.

      Last figure I saw was 83% for the LRI & if you actually believe those figures then I have a lovely bridge over a swamp to sell you.

      Lets not even start on EMAS, which has failed to meet any targets – EVER!

    32. galamcennalath says:

      Petra says:

      David Davis seems to think that the UK will get a tariff free deal.

      …. in 12 months. Definitely other worldly.

      I can’t remember who posted recently (so apologies) to point that the civil servants behind the politicians are normal, intelligent, and capable humans.

      I just cannot believe that the guff these Tories are spouting is backed by thought, genuine planning, and informed advice.

    33. manandboy says:

      Like the vast majority, if not all Tory/Labour/LibDem MSP’s, Colin Smyth will have nothing good to say about Scotland’s democratically elected Government, in fact all of them 100% HATE the SNP and all it stands for. And that’s all they’ve got, no policies and no support to help Scotland develop. Just HATE.
      I recently met a woman who told me she hated Nicola but she couldn’t tell me why. She said she knew the people of North Korea were brainwashed but she didn’t know of any other countries which were like that.

    34. Charles says:

      BBC Website has a waiting times / Target tracker for your area.

      Initially I thought this was for Scotland ONLY (as we would not want to put anything into perspective now would we?) but to my surprise it included England and Wales…..and as the saying goes…Ooaft !

    35. Petra says:

      Taking it that Labour MSP Colin Smyth supports Jeremy Corbyn in dragging Scotland out of the EU what does he have to say about the latest report from the LSE? How does he reckon this will impact on our NHS? And that applies to all other Unionist MSP’s sitting at Holyrood (doing worse than nought). What have they got to say about it?

      ‘Scottish cities will be hardest hit by Brexit with £30 BILLION loss if there’s no deal (and £17 billion if it’s a soft Brexit).’




      ‘This is part two of our major new series on Westminster mismanagement of Scotland’s oil and gas.’

      ‘Westminster let oil companies profit at Scotland’s expense by getting priorities wrong.’


      This is part three of our major new series on Westminster mismanagement of Scotland’s oil and gas.

      ‘Westminster ‘may be giving Scotland’s oil away for free’ – the shocking truth about tax breaks and decommissioning.’


      ‘Mundell quizzed over huge increase in spending at ‘Tory propaganda unit’ Scotland Office.’

    36. Liam says:

      Look! The BBC actually covers an independence movement in a fairly impartial manner:

      Canvey Island: Residents on why they want independence

      which starts:

      They are two battles for independence taking place 700 miles apart: one fighting for the future of Catalonia, the other for the reclaimed land of Canvey Island.

      While Catalonia’s Carles Puigdemont wants to separate from Spain, the aim of the Canvey Island Independence Party is to wrestle back control of the Thames estuary island from the mainland’s Castle Point Borough Council.

      What are we? Invisible?

    37. Tinto Chiel says:

      It has become a truism that words normally lose all meaning when employed by BLiS______d.

      Now they have extended their expertise to numbers.

      What a bunch of pathetic, irrelevant, utterly negative gruntfuttocks.

      And people still vote for these dumb clucks.


    38. frogesque says:

      @Liam 1.17

      “What are we? Invisible?”

      No, not invisible, just risably divisible.

    39. HandandShrimp says:

      How often did Labour hit their targets when they were in control?

      They make a good opposition pontificating from the side lines but not so great if you put them charge of anything. Nothing wrong with exhortation to bridge that last one per cent but I don’t it to be Ruth or Anas/Other one that is making the attempt.

    40. Petra says:

      @ manandboy says at 1:10 pm

      Like the vast majority, if not all Tory/Labour/LibDem MSP’s, Colin Smyth will have nothing good to say about Scotland’s democratically elected Government, in fact all of them 100% HATE the SNP and all it stands for. And that’s all they’ve got, no policies and no support to help Scotland develop. Just HATE. I recently met a woman who told me she hated Nicola but she couldn’t tell me why. She said she knew the people of North Korea were brainwashed but she didn’t know of any other countries which were like that.”

      Spot on manandboy. These Unionist MSP’s aren’t offering ANYTHING at all in the way of being constructive for the Scots / Scotland. They spend their whole time trying to drag the SNP down and in doing so they are dragging us down and are getting bl**dy-well paid to do so. To make matters worse few Scots are aware of the fact that many of them weren’t voted in by the electorate: Just snuck in through the back door, follow their Westminster leader and pick up their big fat pay cheque. Then we have the Union supporting Media / others demanding FoI requests, in the thousands now every year, in an attempt to ‘make news’ … discredit the SNP by frequently cherry picking data. Something that never happened (or VERY rarely) when Labour was in power in Scotland.

      I firmly believe that if we were to lose a 2nd Referendum (which we won’t) that Nicola Sturgeon / SNP MSP’s should down tools and walk out leaving it to them. I’m sure that she would find it extremely difficult to do this: Leaving Scotland to the mercy of morons however I reckon that it would have to be done to get through to the SNP ‘HATERS’, that ALL other political parties / politicians at Holyrood are led by their collar and lead to put England’s interests first, as their track record to date has shown beyond any shred of doubt.

      As to Harvie and the Greens. His giant ego takes precedence over the betterment of the Scots / Scotland now. So you can forget about him, IMO.

    41. Jimbo says:

      No organisation the size of the NHS can run at 100% efficiency.

      If Smyth thinks efficiency rating of 94% are “deeply troubling figures”, he should perhaps compare those figures with NHS Wales which is run by his own party – somewhere in the region of 86% I think.

    42. Fergus Green says:

      @Petra 12.44

      “I’m beginning to think that David Icke isn’t balmy at all when he says that they are shape-shifting reptilian lizards from outer space”

      Not barmy, but just widely ridiculed for challenging the establishment. I’m not sure about the reptilian lizards, but a lot of what David Icke writes turns out to be true in the long run. When Icke outed Ted Heath as a paedophile around 20 years ago, he was laughed at. Who’s laughing now?

    43. `The Scotsman` is down to 14,000 purchased copies a day and these sales are more to a sense of nostalgia/loyalty than a wish to be entertained,educated,and informed,

      it used to be as high as 70,000 + and a byword for fairness and independence,

      don`t know what they teach the young uns in Scotland`s journo school but the morality and quality of hack is shameful to those that have gone before.

      Stu is obviously the exception that proves my point 🙂

    44. Petra says:


      Dearie me! Here we go. We’ll definitely have to remain part of the Union now.

      ‘Unexploded device found near Kelvindale train station.’

    45. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      Just HATE.

      Things would be so much simpler, and honest, if Scottish politics was an openly two party system….

      The Party of HATE.


      The Party of HOPE.

    46. Chick McGregor says:

      Where can we find the statistics on bed wetting for SLAB?

    47. Jack Murphy says:

      BBC UK Health on-line:
      “……The BBC research has found:
      Wales has consistently failed to hit its targets.
      In 2012-13 it did not hit any of its monthly key hospital targets and in 2016-17 it was the same.
      The last time a target was achieved nationally was 2010.

      England has seen the biggest deterioration.
      In 2012-13 it hit its key hospital targets 86% of the time, but in the last year it has missed every monthly target……..”


    48. Arbroath1320 says:

      If only poor wee Smythy had the same percentage of brain capacity as the percentage of voters who voted him into Holyrood he’d be a bloody genius! 😀

    49. Chick McGregor says:

      Scot Finlayson

      Yeah, I remember the Scotsman journalist’s strike in the late 70s I think it was. It wasn’t over money or conditions, it was over editorial changes.

      The owners had proposed that Chris Baur (sp?) was to be the new editor. He was the guy who had mysteriously appeared to read the Scottish news after the great, SNP success driven, media cull. Think the kind of wooden, stiff upper lip, Whitehall types who suddenly appear to report briefings from the government at time of war.

      Mind you, the alternative they managed to force, Linklater, wasn’t all that much better IMO.

      But that’s a long time ago and may be memory warped.

    50. Chick McGregor says:

      PS on thinking a bit more about it, I think he might actually have become editor before the strike.

      Like I say, a long time ago.

    51. Chick McGregor says:

      PPS bottom line is they had a strike over editorial policy not money.

    52. Robert Graham says:

      Well ,Well ,Well, Given Labours branch in scotland’s record a brass neck does not come even close , bloody Cheek more like it .

      I bet even labour supporters are glad their lot are not in charge , in charge of anything remotely close to spending our money .

      If they need a reminder of what labour left us .
      Parliament building 10 times the estimated cost and years late.
      PFI One Billion pounds annually interest charge and rising .
      Edinburgh trams yet another Billion pounds and probably rising .

      Even labour supporters realise their lot are are f/n useless , who says ? their record speaks for them , no other words needed

    53. Muscleguy says:

      @Clive Scott

      What sort of daredevil or bad lifestyle do you and your family live?

      For myself not once, for my wife once, probably, though the treatment was rest and let nature take its course.

      I can perhaps claim to have saved one or two myself through being first a blood donor then a platelet donor. I keep myself out of the doctor’s surgery through exercise and a good diet.

      Apologies if you all have a genetic condition.

    54. mike d says:

      Was it not the dirty lying liebor who also wanted to close the A*E units at monklands and Aye, before the newly elected snp gov reversed the decision. Aye selective memories these lying b******s have

    55. mike d says:

      Should be Ayr. Stupid pred txt. Lol

    56. Chick McGregor says:

      PPPS Can’t find anything on Google about the Scotsman journalist strike in the late 70s(maybe). Bit surprising, but unable to confirm it ever even happened.

    57. schrodingers cat says:

      Fergus Green
      David Icke was also right about the royals being shape shifting lizard aliens …..

    58. gus1940 says:

      Re comments above on The Scotsman there is an interesting article on Johnston Press by Kenneth Roy in this week’s Scottish Review.

    59. stu mac says:

      @Robert Roddick says:
      25 October, 2017 at 11:01 am
      The party of Keir Hardie and RB Cunninghame-Graham is sadly reduced to a laughing stock.

      The party of Keir Hardie and RB Cunninghame-Graham hasn’t really existed for many decades. Though if alive today they would no doubt be sickened by the party that falsely claims their inheritance.

    60. Petra says:

      ”Percentage of the vote on which Mr Smyth was elected as an MSP in 2016: 8.9%.”

      91.01% of those who voted didn’t bl**dy-well want him to represent them. Says it all.

      Waken up Scots, FGS!

    61. manandboy says:

      At 1.59pm Yes, a sobering thought, Galamcennalath, as it’s so close to the truth. All we need is for the three Union branches to make the present informal alliance, including vote transfer, into a single unit.

      But then, Scotland’s history is littered with ("Tractor" - Ed)s and collaborators not to mention English lackies, so even a formal alliance of red, blue and yellow won’t raise any eyebrows

    62. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 25 October, 2017 at 1:09 pm:

      “… I just cannot believe that the guff these Tories are spouting is backed by thought, genuine planning, and informed advice.”

      Ach! galamcennalath, you had best believe it for it is true. However, what you do not seem to realise is that the so called, “Security Services”, (there are in-named sections besides such as MI5 & MI6 – (what are MI1 to MI4?), but besides that they are not ever mentioned.

      I was employed for over 50 years in the MOD as an Industrial Civil Servant and for a large part of that required the highest possible security clearance you can get.

      I carried two security passes, and when I had occasion to visit some of the most top secret Government establishments, needed the second one to gain entry.

      You can believe it or not but the armed guards on the gates would spring to attention and salute, (remember I was a civilian), me.

      There are establishments in existence you will not find mentioned anywhere. Officially the just do not exist.

      You won’t find any budget set out for them either – but they do exist. I would go as far as saying that your run of the mill political party folks have no knowledge of these establishments.

      So yes, much thought does go into the things that MPs and even Government Ministers say – but they may indeed not know why they were told to say them.

      Here’s a question for you, galamcennalath.

      How many Edinburghers knew about the underground bunker on the northern side of the Corstorphine Zoo hill until the government had no further use for it? What of the Pitrievie Castle underdround bunker used as NATO HQ? What of the now known underground bunker in the East Neuk of Fife?

      All now sold off by Westminster who no longer need them – but how many more are there?

      What of RAF Menith Hil?:-

      What of RAF Chicksands? Ever hear about that joint RAF/USAF surveillance base? It was in exisance as an MPD base before WWII but became a top secret base during WWII. It continued during the Cold War and was also involved in psychological stuff and there were accusations of torture being used there.

    63. Lenny Hartley says:

      Fergus Green, Icke does himself no favours in many ways but some of what he says is well researched and sounds believable. When people say to me he said Arran would disappear beneath the waves, I remind them that he said unless their was peace in Northern Ireland then Arran would be hit by earthquakes and disappear beneath the waves, a neighbour of mind was asked by misreporting Scotland what he thought of Ickes Prediction, he said that he had the tremors every Monday 🙂 joking aside and hammers alert , I know we are not meant to mention the 9/11 word on here however it must be said that Icke claimed that external forces had taken control of the planes via a system built in to enable remote control of the planes if you know the codes and the IFF system was switched off. I thought very unlikely, then i saw in the Herald in the early noughties a little snippet that Boeing had refused to give the US Government the codes to take over the new aircraft they were designing (the 787 Dreamliner) in the event of a hijack! Still unlikely but by the sounds of it technically feasible.

    64. This appears to be a twin tack strategy from Labour in its efforts to undermine the Scottish Government.

      Which is to attack it over NHS waiting times and the educational attainment gap.

      Even if waiting times targets were exceeded, Labour would still find some other way to attack the Scottish Government and claim patients were being failed.

      Remember this from a party when in Government at Holyrood, which as far as I am aware never achieved any of the NHS targets it set .

    65. Chick McGregor says:

      England hasn’t met its A&E monthly waiting time target for over two years with currently more than 10% of patients waiting more than 4 hours.

      Wales is worse with more than 15% of patients waiting more than 4 hours.

    66. heedtracker says:

      Alex Cole-Hamilton, health spokesman for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, said: “These horrendous and embarrassing waiting times are not the fault of hardworking emergency medics and staff, but…

      He’s odd type of high English tory too, Holyrood magazine 26 April 2017

      What were you militant about?

      “It was the first Gulf war and I became very concerned about the state of global politics. So I became a vegetarian, I grew my hair long – this was all at the age of 13 – and I became very evangelical about my arch left-wing beliefs.”

      Arch leftie? Its the FibDem’s that gave this whole tory catastrofuck the green light.

      I blame the beeb Scotland gimp network. They are the main opposition in Scotland today and its always healthy to have an entirely unelected cable of tory chancers doing that, beeb gimp or otherwise.

    67. Petra says:


      If anyone wants to see propaganda in action watch today’s BBC2 Politics Scotland on the BBC iPlayer.

      Brewer is an absolute DISGRACE! Doing his utmost to encourage / promote Unionist lies, no doubt because he knows he’s right out on his erse when we get our Independence.

      For someone who was once a member of the International Communist League he sure gives the Tories more than their fair share of time, MUCH more, to spout their SNP Baad guff. Mr Brewer a true supporter of the Union and to he*l with Scotland.

    68. Andy-B says:

      Here’s something that is deeply troubling, Fats Domino has just died, now “Aint That a Shame.

    69. brian says:

      What was worse was the BBC News portraying the Scottish NHS A&E performance as “only meeting target on 8% of the time in last year”. That means hitting 95% in 1 of 12 months. The fact that 93 and 94% were regulary achieved was not mentioned. A truly deceitful way to present information on performance.

    70. Petra says:


      Oh and I forgot to mention that as per James Kelly DOLT, on Scottish Politics today, Scotland’s NHS is in ”CRISIS” again with not a cheep from Brewer to the contrary or a comparison made of England or the Labour run Welsh NHS.

      That’s what we’re up against in Scotland with the usual 3 Unionist politicians having their (very long) say to 1 SNP MSP.

      And the BBC has the brass neck to say that they are fair and impartial!?

    71. Derek Henry says:

      Thank god the tide is turning and people actually within the NHS are learning how the funding of the NHS actually works.

      This is being passed around like a hot potato at the moment within the NHS. Just imagine the outcomes when everyone within the NHS fully understands it.

      The fiscal conservatives will be finished.

      By David Laws, Consultant Anaesthetist, City Hospitals Sunderland NHS Foundation Trust.

    72. Derek Henry says:

      The REV should use David Laws paper as a guest post and spread it far and wide.

      Especially since it is 100% fact! More people in Scotland need to learn how the NHS is actually funded.

      The more people that realise we do need a sovereign free floating currency with our own central bank. The quicker we gain independence.

    73. mike d says:

      Andy-b. Just finished playing one of his cd’s 20 mins ago.

    74. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 15:52,

      So Brewer is yet another Flipper – radical lefty gone BritNat, eh? Never knew that. The things you discover on WoS! =grin=

      What is there about these people? Can’t have the revolution they wanted as callow youths so as adults they can only dog the manger of anyone else’s?

      Or become so dried-out and disillusioned that they have sold out for their 30 pieces?

      Or what…?

    75. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Give the Rev a shout @Derek Henry says at 4:26 pm

      You’ll get him at:

      Ask him to consider using David Laws paper as a guest post especially since it is 100% fact.

    76. Brian Powell says:

      If anyone had any doubt on the BBC agenda of anti-SNP, anti-SG this is the proof: “the Scottish NHS A&E performance as “only meeting target on 8% of the time in last year”.

      No other intention than to create confusion in the minds of the dimwitted.

    77. Derek Henry says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker


    78. ghostly606 says:

      What were the target figures when Labour were in Government as a matter of interest? I suspect this was below 94%.

    79. Brian Powell says:

      Maybe, as the SG is accused of passing on Tory cuts, they could apply all the cuts to those constituencies that voted in Labour MPs, with no mitigation, and those that voted in Tory MPs as it is their policies causing the problems.

      Unfortunate for the non ToryLab voters but it could concentrate all their minds.

    80. uno mas says:

      Concerned about incomers to Scotland buying up too much property and affecting the political landscape?

      Here´s the New Zealand answer to the same problem.

      Incidentaly there is a magnificent BTL comment from someone posting as Keep Out.

      Laugh? You will!!

    81. manandboy says:

      Over centuries, the English ruling class, with its taste for Imperialism and Colonialism, have acquired a profile characterised by treachery, betrayal, greed, racism, corruption, brutality, exploitation, cultural genocide and contempt for every other nation on earth.

      The scale of Brexit is historical in its proportions and potential consequences. Just the kind of situation to bring out the worst in a Westminster under serious threat of great loss.

      Soon, the British Establishment will show again it’s true colours and we will learn not for the first time that the English simply cannot be trusted.

      But I do wonder whether the Scottish Government has what it takes to adequately protect Scotland from what is to come as England secretly prepares to create its own new future in the same way, almost certainly, that it created it’s past.

    82. Peter says:

      Is 94% not a (relatively speaking) significant drop?

    83. Rock says:


      “”Percentage of the vote on which Mr Smyth was elected as an MSP in 2016: 8.9%.”

      91.01% of those who voted didn’t bl**dy-well want him to represent them. Says it all.”

      For the purpose of your calculation, more than that actually, 91.1%.

      But unlike Ken500 and the Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, I am 100% in favour of proportional representation and therefore Mr Smyth is 100% a legitimate MSP.

      If more than 20% of the voting public is stupid enough, selfish enough or British Nationalist enough to vote for Labour in Scotland, then its voice has to be heard in a democratic society.

      Since there are more than enough outlets for the voices of the likes of Mr Smyth to be heard, the only “independence supporting” newspaper in Scotland should give zero space or coverage to them and instead publish articles like this as their front page headline news.

    84. geeo says:

      The Scotsman strike was 1981.

      (PDF file)

    85. Rock says:


      “But I do wonder whether the Scottish Government has what it takes to adequately protect Scotland from what is to come as England secretly prepares to create its own new future in the same way, almost certainly, that it created it’s past.”

      Rock (28th June – “Slight reprise”):

      “Admit it or not, the independence cause has suffered a major setback.

      The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”

    86. Legerwood says:

      ghostly606 says:
      25 October, 2017 at 4:50 pm
      What were the target figures when Labour were in Government as a matter of interest? I suspect this was below 94%.

      If you are talking about A&E targets, Labour set the target at 98%in 2004 with the aim of reaching that target by end of 2007. By the quarter ending June 2006 the figure was 88%

      But figures from Labour’s time in office were collected once per year over a 3 to 7 day period in April each year. They were not reported quarterly until 2006.

      See my earlier posts above, around 11.30am for more details

    87. TheWasp says:

      Disreporting now.

      Heres the headlines – murdurr
      – fire service SNPbad
      – murdurr

      Just the usual everyday lives in Scotlandshire

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Don’t know how people will feel about this, it is conventional defence though, and so far Scotland is as well represented as England on the map. ‘Twould be funny if we could do better, and possible a good idea too. Needless to say I signed it already.

      “Stop the cuts to the Royal Marines and the Royal Navy’s amphibious assault ships ”

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      Actually, I think the SNP should get behind that petition and ask a question in the HoC, as it’s conssistent with support for naval shipbilding on the Clyde, and at Rosyth, and could get a rare bit of goodwill for the SNP in the UK as a whole, as well as sitting well with PNVs – Previous No Voters.

      The only real excuse for getting rid of Albion and Bulwark, and apparently Ocean is maybe going to Brazil, is to build at least two large deck amphibs as replacements, and Scotland, Rosyth perhaps, would be the logical choice. Occurs to me that as well as supporting NATO operations, there’s the Arctic coming up in the future.

    90. yesindyref2 says:

      OK. You have the Royal Marines at RM Condor at Arbroath (45 Commando Group), most of the rest in the South-West of England, and Reserve detachments at Aberdeen, Dundee, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

      This is a rumour, so far, and with the budget coming up with probable cuts, there’s always defence cut rumours, often put out by previous sea lords to encourage reaction.

    91. Chick McGregor says:


      Thanks for that.

      Looks like my memory concatenated that strike with events about 5 years later as I found in this page of someone’s memoirs:

    92. Bob p says:

      Brian powell 4.45pm.yup and sadly there’s a lot of the dimwitted up here, OR should that be bigoted. ARE we the most bigoted country in the world?. Who arent genetically programmed to make decisions for ourselves,other than phoning in to vote on x factor. Duh

    93. Chick McGregor says:


      No I didn’t, reading further up from the bit where Linklater replaced Baur in 1987 there was another strike at that time.

      My error was ‘only’ in being out by about 7 years.

    94. Chick McGregor says:

      Bit disappointing that the ‘editorial changes’ reported as reason for the strike were simply procedural rather than content driven after all this time.

    95. GORDON FORREST says:

      Even with lower targets south of the border they miss them by far bigger margins. I agree that no one should be kept waiting but due to their very nature that is what happens in A & E.
      I have had my treatment pushed back by a motor accident far more serious that the one I had been involved in came in. But how many people does this actually affect? If 1.03% equates to say 200 people then yes it is a shame that they are not being treated as fast as the other 93.07%. I cannot praise the wonderful health professionals enough but I’d still like to know how many people are actually affected And I’d also like to know how many people make up each percentage that the English trusts fail to treat within their much lower targets. Then I’d like to hear this Buffoon try and justify his half baked comments The staff work very fast and efficiently all year round and try to achieve the best possible outcome perhaps we should start to review Mr Smyths caseload. see how far below our targets he falls.

    96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Is Rock the most boring contributor here? Where is the illusory Colin Alexander who was giving him a run for his money.
      Did Colin go off to the far east recently I sometimes wonder.

    97. heedtracker says:

      “For someone who was once a member of the International Communist League he sure gives the Tories more than their fair share of time, MUCH more, to spout their SNP Baad guff. Mr Brewer a true supporter of the Union and to he*l with Scotland.”

      No way. That is so weird. My Slovene girlfriend is also an ex er, commie republican turned hard core tory yoon roaster, too:D

      Herald explains

      “Professor Adam Tomkins, who became an unpaid adviser to David Mundell last month, had previously railed against “the weirdness of the present generation of Windsors”.

      Tomkins, the John Millar Professor of Public Law at Glasgow University, also attacked “the degrading rituals of pomp and servility that accompany majesty”, the “sheer unfairness” of an hereditary head of state, and claimed the royals had a “long history of tax avoidance”.

      “You’re either a monarchist or you’re a democrat. You can’t be both,” he wrote.

      “If you want an accountable government you have to choose to abandon the monarchy.”

      Tomkins laid bare his feelings in an article in May 2004, in which he listed the “many arguments against monarchy”.
      Five months later, he spoke at the ‘Declaration of Calton Hill,’ an event staged by the Scottish Socialist Party to rival the Queen’s official opening of the new Holyrood building.

      The Declaration began: “We the undersigned call for an independent Scottish republic”.

      Fast forward a decade and Professor Smirky’s gone in at the deep end of tory rule.

      “Asked about his republicanism, Tomkins said his interest had been of a “dusty, antiquarian academic” kind and he “didn’t know” if he ever signed the Declaration of Calton Hill.
      “I quite like the pomp and ceremony these days. My republicanism has softened,” he said.”

      He didnt know. Yoon’s be crazy.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      What we are seeing is a borehole operation gone wrong, where the original purpose was to extract a sample of Rock to see if it was any fracking good, but with the fracking ban the operation has got out of fracking control and Rock has become the fracking borehole.

    99. heedtracker says:

      Rock’s a fuckwit but they are an odd lot, the yoons.

      So is it really likely that the, “Vote Colonel Ruth! she’ll frack the life out of her Scotland region, and all the revenue will be sent to the greatest ever country in the world, just like the hundreds of billions of not Scottish oil and gas revenue, again…” Scottish tory campaign is being designed?

      Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
      Philip Sim?Verified account @BBCPhilipSim Oct 24

      Replying to @BBCPhilipSim
      Murdo Fraser says “ludicrous” ban on fracking shows “contempt for science” & “sheer hypocrisy” given fracked gas still imported to Scotland

    100. Ken500 says:

      Thomkins married an American and decided to trough on the public purse to supplement the P/T job. Taking the micky out of the Scottish taxpayers. Ruining the Scottish economy, Will his wife be thrown out of Scotland by the Tories. Or will he be heading down south aspiring Westminster Con. Or will it be thirty years in the wilderness? Brexit mess.

    101. North chiel says:

      Ref “ the wasp@0634pm” . More of the same drivel from “ union Jackie “ and her new “ patsy” Lucy Adams ( direct replacement for Eleanor Bradford) . “ SNP baad due to fire service cuts” . Hopefully all the “ hot air” generated by Jackie & cohorts At “ propaganda quay” doesn’t add to the “ false” alarm statistics collated by our Scottish fire& rescue service.

    102. call me dave says:

      Ho Ho!

      Anas Sarwar: distributing the wealth from the MANY to the FEW 🙂

      Jings it’s the way labour tell em!(from WOS twitter) what a gaff!

    103. Legerwood says:

      Gordon Forrest @ 8.05 pm

      A&E waiting times. Here is the latest data for A&E waiting times for week ending 15th October which were published by ISD Scotland this week.

      The figures include the numbers who waited more than 4 hours.

      “”During the week ending 15 October 2017:

      There were 26,053 attendances at Emergency Departments across Scotland.

      92.5% of people attending Emergency Departments were seen and subsequently admitted, transferred or discharged within 4 hours.

      222 (0.9%) patients spent more than 8 hours in an Emergency Department.

      30 (0.1%) patients spent more than 12 hours in an Emergency Department.””

      Go to ISD Scotland Publications to get the full report.

    104. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      I was watching an episode of ‘Toast of London’ the other night and noticed Anas Sarwar looks quite like Clem Fandango.

      Hi Scotland, this is Anas Sarwar. Can you hear me?

    105. Artyhetty says:


      Anas Sarwar gaffe on Twitter;’radical’ new policy, wealth equality, ‘from the many to the few’. Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaa. Brilliant, the truth will out! There for all to fckg see.

    106. artyhetty says:


      It is a hill to climb, after 300+ years of colonial, English rule for sure. The Scottish government is certainly new to having to negotiate the halls of WM corruption, but not new to having the measure of Britnat dirty tactics.

      I won’t say ‘hope’ I see the Labour followers saying that on twitter, but we can probably be assured that the Scotgov do have the measure of things.

      We are up against a monster, but, Scotland has the will, wherewithal and the means in fact! Ha!

    107. Ken500 says:

      Tories ignorant incompetents. Taxing Scottish Oil sector at 40% since Jan 2016. Pricing it out of the market because of excess tax when the price is lower. UK Tories importing fracked gas from the US. Ruining the US environment. Instead of investing in renewables. Nuclear is the most unsafe and expensive.

      There is no onshore Gas to frack in Scotland. It dried up in the 1060’s. Not worth the investment. Plenty of offshore Gas. It it wasn’t being secreted out of Scotland. £9Billion of unexplained expenses in the Scottish accounts Account are done to explain expenses. False accounting by the Westminster Treasury.

      Scotland pays 10% more for fuel and energy because it is colder. Despite being in surplus.,25% is exported. Scotland should be paying 10% less for parity. A 10% tax on the Scottish economy because unit prices/tariff are the same. Despite Scotland being in surplus and nearer the source. The Scottish Gov plans for a energy company could help to make energy cheaper in Scotland,

      The Scottish Gov could start buying back Oil/Gas companies when they come up for sale. Investing in the Oil & Gas sector. Imagine having to buy back Scotland’s own assets but it could be done. Improve workers terms and conditions. Any profits could go back into the economy. Support NHS/Education, essential services. In the Oil industry workers are having to do the work of three people to survive.

      Murdo Fraser and the not nice and dim Tories haven’t got a clue. They haven’t had a proper job for most of their life. 3rd rate rejects troughing on public money. Useless.

    108. ben madigan says:

      “My republicanism has softened,” he said.”

      A person is either a republican or not a republican and has become so over time and with maturity.

      Once an individual is intellectually/emotionally convinced that a republican government (under whatever form – liberal, social democratic, socialist, communist, – choose your own) is a better form of government than a monarchy, s/he never reverts back to supporting monarchism

      I have never met a republican who reverted back to being a monarchist or softened his/her republican views because they liked “Royal pagentry”.

      Most abhor it, particularly the gratuitous military displays of “Royal power” in the UK

    109. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Scottish Labour just really sad. I never particularly liked them but they had a history.

      Now look at that party which did a lot for people a long time ago.

      As an independence supporter I don’t give any support to the British Nationalist Unionists in Scottish Labour however I think it impacts adversely on Scottish politics when a once huge force in politics is overrun by Roasters.

      How did that ever happen?

      Folk like us don’t support them but we have to admit there is a loss to us all and we should not laugh at them constantly although on occasion it’s difficult not to.

    110. stewartb says:

      Legerwood @9.01 pm

      Good to have you spell out the detail of the new data on A&E waiting times here. I’d like to add in the information on the 4 hour waiting time performance since July 2016, as shown by the graph of national data at the link below:

      It shows a record of consistent, good performance – but Labour sees it only as ‘deeply troubling’. This performance is achieved by hard work and dedication of many NHS Scotland staff on a daily basis but Labour chooses (again) to adopt its ‘SNPbad’ stance despite what is being achieved.

    111. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 25 October, 2017 at 3:41 pm:

      “I blame the beeb Scotland gimp network. They are the main opposition in Scotland today”

      I’ve been saying it a very long time but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. The main opposition in Scotland is quite simply The Westminster Parliament and, as has always been the case, Westminster is just one fairly small part of the Westminster Establishment that has been elite leadership of the British Isles for as long as there has been people living on the British Isles.

      As far back as written history goes there has been, a mainly non-Briton, elite leadership in the south of Britain. in around 55/54 BC the Romans arrived and it was they who began recording history in Britain. A serious study of these Roman records throws up the fact that these were mostly by way of reports sent back to Rome by Roman Leaders or their supporters to influence the political claims of the leadership in Britain towards their future careers as Emperor of the Roman Empire. Indeed most of them did go on as Emperor.

      The point, though, is that these written records often expose the fact that depending upon who the author favoured the slant of the letter to Rome the facts were bent to suit. Which ones, though, to believe?

      In 55BC Julius Caesar invaded Britain and in 410AD the Romans left. So a foreign country ran south Britain for 465 years. Then came the Germanic, Anglo-Saxon Tribes and they, in one form or another, have ruled Britain ever since.

      The present Monarchy is descended from those Anglo-Saxons and she is descended from those Germanic tribes. The Normans, also Germanic tribes, gave us the Feudal system and there are hereditary Peers still sitting in the House of Lords.

      The Westminster Establishment are really just a whole bunch of unionist doing what they are told by The Establishment. The party system is just a cover for the truth. The Establishment runs Britain and it always has.

    112. sassenach says:

      Petra @3-52

      Just watched a recording of today’s Politics Scotland, and must agree Brewer is an absolute disgrace – except that by going ‘over the top’ against the SNP he will be convincing even more people that the BBC Scotland are just a Britnat propaganda machine.

      Hopefully his time is coming (after Indy)……!

    113. Dr Jim says:

      If the BBC were really reporting Scotland you’d think they’d report stuff like how much Scotland pays in to Englands treasury and how little we get back, or ask questions like why does England keep so much of Scotlands money and not account for where it goes, or maybe they could take a wee look at the Barnet formula and explain to Scots it’s not Englands money it’s ours

      Or maybe they might explain to Scots why we have to pay the National grid to supply electricity to England, but in England the National grid pays them for it

      The above are just a couple of subjects a news program of an actual country might cover but in Scotland we’re treated as some sort of hostile enemy of the state to be kept in the dark in case the truth might set us free

      Every other country of the once British Empire was treated the same and they all celebrate their Independence day from the bloody English and don’t want to come back

      We’ve got serious problems with the Unionists in our country, the ones at the top are liars and the rest are either sectarianists or just plain thick

      Now the thick ones I don’t blame, at least they have a chance to learn, but the rest

    114. Cadogan Enright says:

      Perhaps colin Smyth might review the Labour Party’s record in Wales on A and E times

      Even the BBC conceded that Scotland was the only one looking like it met its A and E Targets form time to time – and reluctantly concluded they were the best in UK

      The reputable SNP loving BBC says about Wales;

      The numbers being seen in four hours during December dropped to 81% – well below the 95% target.. And the numbers waiting over 12 hours nearly hit 2,500 – a rise of two-thirds on the same period the year before.
      Wales has become the first part of the UK to redefine how it deals with 999 calls.
      Instead of requiring ambulances to reach a third of calls in eight minutes, it narrowed the number of conditions needing an urgent response and now just aims for this in abut 5% of cases.

    115. heedtracker says:

      The present Monarchy is descended from those Anglo-Saxons and she is descended from those Germanic tribes. The Normans, also Germanic tribes, gave us the Feudal system and there are hereditary Peers still sitting in the House of Lords.”

      UK is a monarchy Robert. Scotland is merely a region within the monarchy state. 2014 was an opportunity to change that but for all kinds of reasons as we know, Scotland said no, lets keep this set up.

      If you really want to see just how far Scotland was left behind, since the 60’s as England’s boomed on North Sea oil and gas reserves, go to Aberdeen right now and see the new, nearly finished WPR “by-pass.” Its absolutely amazing.

      The potential of a Scotland no longer owned and runned by another country, by the shills and media gimps, is just staggering, truly staggering.

      Sneaky shit tories still run Scotland, no matter how hard we Scots just refuse to vote for them but all they really have left now is the beeb Scotland gimp networ.

      Also, the Normans were next gen Vikings, third generation Viking invaders that invaded and conquered the Normandy bit of modern France. Well some say they were given it to stop them taking it all.

    116. Cadogan Enright says:

      Latest. Welsh. A. And E figures brought to by Colin Smyth’s Labour 84.4%

      They are now ONLY 11% short of target – If 1% short in Scotland is ‘deeply troubling’ then what is this?

    117. geeo says:

      @chick mcgregor

      Happy to help re Scotsman strike.

      However, it is reasonable to say that the dead tree media ‘journalists’ have been on strike permanently since at least 2012.

      When was the last investigative breaking news story which didn’t originate via a labour/tory party press release, in Scotland ?

    118. @Robert Peffers

      The great absurdity in the beliefs of the yoon is their support for an establishment that is not British,

      the yoon rightly proclaim their Britishness and yet support the UK being controlled by a Germanic establishment,

      Britain is Celtic,

      Anglo Saxon/Norman French is Germanic

      Anglo Saxon is not British,

      Norman French is not British,

      they (the yoon) have been controlled/manipulated by a foreign establishment for hundreds of years,

      the establishment are a parasite like a giant tapeworm being fed by the ignorant yoon.

    119. Morgatron says:

      God ,just watched Loki on Scotland tonight, fuck knows how me and my friends got out of Catlemilk in 1979 after 16 years there without the aid of a book and the assitance of any left wing think tank. Fuck it, im of to shoot up and lie in my own pish. What a load of bollocks.

    120. heedtracker says:

      When was the last investigative breaking news story which didn’t originate via a labour/tory party press release, in Scotland

      A big beeb r4 news gimp network thing today, was UK workers are not productive enough, for our toryboy masters and betters. A worker in the EU takes 4 days to make something that takes UK workers 5.

      Que lots of wetfart toryboys explaining why, its the workers you see, they’re just not working hard enough.

      At no point throughout the beeb gimp day, did any beeb gimp explore the fact that the average EU worker earns more than the UK worker, their working conditions are better, they have more holidays, that their standard of living and pensions are higher, or that they are not owned by the great british toryboy.

      Why would you, if you’re a beeb gimp, who’s never done a days work in your life, producing anything at all, but hard core rule britannia, royals groveling, vote tory red and blue propaganda?

    121. stewartb says:

      Regarding the A&E targets, I’ve just read the whole of the Scotsman article that Stu quotes from and while the remarks of Labour’s Colin Smyth can be, rightly, ridiculed the Scotsman offers up this quote from the Lib Dems. It would be unfair not give the latter due credit.

      ‘Alex Cole-Hamilton, health spokesman for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, said: “These horrendous and embarrassing waiting times ….” Another shark being jumped me thinks!

    122. louis.b.argyll says:

      How about building some refugee carriers, or better still, stop selling weapons to dictators.

      Oh wait, we’re not allowed to mention dictators, never mind the war.

    123. Lenny Hartley says:

      Nana @ 2305 that is staggering, tried to Archive which failed. So have taken a screenshot of every page before it disappears into the ether.

    124. Capella says:

      @ Lenny Hartley – it’s a PDF. Just download it and save to your disc.

    125. Still Positive says:

      Forgetting A & E. Have any of you, particularly in the Glasgow area, noticed a marked improvement in routine hospital appointment waiting times?

      In November last year I was due to have a bone density scan and I was sent an appointment for a Thursday at the Ambulatory Care Unit in the former Yorkhill building. My son also had an appointment on the Wednesday (for a wrist injury) at the same place. I phoned up to change my appointment and it was done immediately to fit in with my son’s appointment.

      His appointment was at 9.15 (he had to have an injection in his wrist) and we were in Clydebank before 10 am.

      I have since had another appointment at the same place and was in and out speedily: questionnaire; chat with physio, including measurements and balance (hip resurfacing 10 years ago) and X-ray
      -total 30 minutes.

      I was also at Gartnavel General in July for a routine appointment with my Breast Cancer Surgeon – I stepped off the bus at 1.20 (Appointment 1.30), had meeting, discussion and thorough examination and was back at the bus stop at 1.50.

      The NHS in Glasgow (North of the Clyde) is serving us well.

    126. Still Positive says:

      Nana & Lenny Hartley

      Disturbing reading. I sincerely hope we pensioners will be protected by the triple lock on State pensions.

      I also have a Civil Service Widow’s pension and a SPPA teacher’s pension which are also triple-locked. Each makes up c 1/3 of my income. My OAP pension includes c£50 per week extra because my husband died well before retirement age.

      Don’t trust the UK government to honour those commitments, but I do trust the SG to honour the SPPA commitments to retired teachers, NHS staff and Police Officers.

    127. geeo says:

      Apple growers warn of catastrophe if no deal on workers from EU.

    128. Capella says:

      Can’t believe this. ENHS going to trial lodging patients in homes where people have a spare room. Taking privatisation to a new level – pre 1930s level.

      Southend hospital set to pilot Airbnb-style scheme –

    129. Dr Jim says:

      I used to think Loki was just an arrogant little Twonk who tries remembering words from a thesaurus and then puts them together to form sentences but after taking a close look and listen to him on Scotland tonight I’ve realised I was wrong he’s an arrogant little Twonk who exhibits all the traits of self delusional aggrandisement and basic no right in the heidness

      I don’t mean to be harsh when I say this guy practically insists that he’s the only one with the answers until strangely enough help me Rona who’s not known for her mental gymnastics asks him the simple question *well what is the answer then Loki* and Loki replies, and I’m paraphrasing here *phucked if I know, eat less, don’t smoke , and say no to drugs and alcohol and don’t listen to politicians*

      Phew! All my problems along with societies ills just fell away……They give this airtime and probably pay it!


    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Catching up with Catalonia

      “Catalan Parliament lawyers see article 155 as an “attack against the rule of law””

    131. yesindyref2 says:

      I think we’re starting to see what Sturgeon meant when she said she was coming out fighting this parliamentary session.

      Good, no more Ms nice person!

    132. Ken500 says:

      Andy Murray Hydro 7th November. Brought £Million/Billions into Scotland. Put Scotland on the world map. Promoting sport and healthy living,

    133. Street Andrew says:

      Colin Smith: Yet another twat.

      (Am I allowed to say ‘twat’.)

    134. Nana says:

      Brexit: Mundell unable to list powers set for Holyrood

      Tory MPs told to ‘stand up’ for Aberdeen after shock Brexit study

      Brexit: the “no dealers” who want to fail

    135. Nana says:

      Hardly a surprise – at my last Committee appearance at Westminster she was blatantly co-ordinating her questions with the Tories.
      Guess who he’s talking about before clicking the tweet

      We knew there was a problem with bots and trolls

      UN independent expert urges Spanish Government to reverse decision on Catalan autonomy

    136. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, “One million BT customers could see their balls fall”.

    137. galamcennalath says:

      “Wales Governance Centre/YouGov survey …. 73% of Remain voters thought they would be worse off outside the EU, compared with just 17% of Leave voters. “

      Obviously, I find that astonishing. Probably, Leave voters everywhere are in that state of denial.

      Leaving for ideological/nationalistic/xenophobic reasons is one thing, but not accepting that you will pay a price, literally, is stupidity.

      Unfortunately, they may have to actually leave and feel the pain before the reality sinks in.

    138. Ken500 says:

      Sarwar tax plans? Multimillionaire bastards should paid their taxes. Not pass their unearned income to their children to evade tax. Scotland loses £3Billion to tax evasion. UK tax Laws. HMRC not fit for purpose. Whisky companies etc making vast profits pay no tax,

      Scotland pays £3Billion in interest payments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland, Spent making up the shortfall in the rest of the UK. They do not raise enough to pay their bills.

      £1Billion a year lost. No minimum pricing since 2012 passed in the Scottish Parliament by every Party except Labour. The tax evading Whisky association has held it up. Killing more folk. Decision now in up to four months, The judiciary who have to deal with crime and problems every day caused by addiction to drink/drugs. 50%+’ of crime is caused by drink/drug addiction. The easiest way to poverty is drink/drug addiction. People get in such a state they can’t work and get ill. Crosses all social classes and affects everyone. Proper total abstinence Rehab is cheaper and more cost effective than prison.

      Tory illegal,unfair tax on the Scottish Oil & Gas industry. 40% tax since Jan 2016. Losing exploration and production. Losing £Billions and thousands of jobs in Scotland. 120,000 jobs. Scotland could have had full employment. 103,000 unemployed. Fracked Gas being imported from US (UK Gov). Ruining the US environment. Gas from Norway being imported. Hinkley Point wasting £Billions. Two tidal barrages (Humber) would cost £20Billion produce more energy and be safer. The Tories have banned onshore wind turbines in England. Money trees producing low cost fuel. Spinning money with every turn.

      Corbyn backing Leonard, Leonard and Sarwar both cheating. Signing up fake members. Paid by ‘activists’ doing it for money. Illegal. Public money. Buying an election. To gain the poisoned chalice. They will not last a year.

      Brexit a total waste of public money. The Tories will ‘negotiated’ less for more. Less rights but paying more money. For no decision rights. It will cost £Billiins in lost revenues, So the Westminster crooks and their cronies can tax evade and embezzle public money. Wasting public money on grotesque projects of no value, no one wants. Cutting NHS/Education welfare payments and essential services that every one wants, needs and supports.

      Fallon selling arms to Saudi Arabia to kill and maim millions of innocent people. Terrorv funders and supporters. Wasting £Billions and destroying the world economy. Saudi the most absolute despot monarchy in the world. Whose policies are unexceptable in any free and fair democracy. Would not be tolerated in US/UK. Tory hypocrites, Fallon wants to start a war with Russia and Asia. What an ignorant incompetent warmonger. The Tories are pycho bastards. Starving vulnerable people to death. Despicable.

      A Tory stood up in Westminster applauding the 100 year anniversary of the Balfour Agreement. “Led in to a ‘democracy’ in the Middle East”. A total lie. Between Lord Balfour and Rothschild. Lloyd George. No universal Suffrage. Illegal agreement. Led to appalling bloodshed. Ruining the world economy. Illegal wars and £Trns of debt. Continual hardship for millions of innocent people killed and maimed. The Tory/unionists parties are appalling.

      The Tories chucking people out of Scotland after changing the rules. Who do they think they are? Totally unexceptable. Depopulating Scotland.

      Write a letter giving the Westminster corral opinions. Be polite if a reply is required. More administration. Or more robust, anonymous giving frank views. Type and put on gloves. Send from distant location. M15. No e-Mail address or telephone no. A physical reply. Tell the liars off. Do not let them get away with the lies. If thousands of people did so. It could make a difference agenda.

    139. galamcennalath says:

      Sorry, link for above

    140. Tackety Beets says:

      GMS @8.15

      One of the most horrible venemous interview on NHS with Shona Robinson

      Save your sanity & avoid !

    141. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just caught that interview on RS about NHS, waiting times etc…

      Missed intro, don’t know who the ‘minister’ was, but what a remarkably aggressive performance by the presenter. Really quite unpleasant to listen to, as if she had some personal beef going.


    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      P.S. It was Shona Robinson being interviewed.

    143. call me dave says:

      Up close and personal is brought to a new level as a BBC shortbread interview with Shona Robinson goes beyond the pale!
      It was a hateful rant full of international and a calculated personal attack on a minister who kept cool throughout. Well done her!

      BBC did not put the ‘selected’ lists of hospital statistics on their web site for nothing it’s a part of a long term strategy.

    144. call me dave says:

      Interruptions became international there. Jings!

    145. Alistair Donaldson says:

      Beaten to it – I listen to Radio Scotland every morning on my way to work, just to get the blood pumping, so to speak. This morning I belatedly joined a so-called interview, perhaps more of an interrogation of Shona Robison by Hayley Miller (I guess), concerning the totally and absolutely dismal state of our SNHS.
      It left me biling! I didn’t hear the entire interview, but was left with the impression that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, good about our Health Service. Clearly that is not the case, but to anyone listening who gains their “news” from this source alone, they would assume that the SNHS was in terminal decline and that it was solely our Scottish Government’s fault, if not Shona Robison personally.
      I felt the tone of the interrogation was vindictive, possibly being directed from some other unheard entity, as Ms Miller stuttered and stalled over her questions, many of which appeared petty and personal and with a good number of interruptions during replies. Shona Robison remained composed and polite throughout.
      However, despite this and the fact that she was able to provide largely satisfactory replies, the overlying tenor was, surprise surprise – SNB BAAAAAD!
      I agree with many who post here that it really is high time that our representatives stopped wearing kid-gloves and learned to talk over our false news presenters; give as good as they get. Perhaps the interviewee should be permitted to end interviews prematurely if being dealt with unfairly and maybe even consider a total boycott of any interview with any arm of our much beloved and revered Bullsh*t Broadcasting Corporation.
      All that the present modus operandi does is nourish the gullible and the blind. Blood pressure is reducing now – and breathe.

    146. Les Wilson says:

      EBCs was an utter disgrace this morning, Shona Robinson under severe and nasty attack by the bitch “reporter”
      If anyone doubted EBCs bias, this was the conformation of how bad it is, shameful to listen to. Shona still managed to handle things pretty well while under constant attack.

      Also have misgivings of Audit Scotland, release again just prior to FMQ’s. They seem to be giving ammunition to the unionists at every turn.
      Thus allowing the gutter Unionist parties to have a field day, Nicola will be under much concerted unionist attack today. Although she is used to it, and will be able to handle them, to their dismay.

      Now, EBCs are going to have Kaye discussing it all this morning,
      so more crap and picked “witnesses” sure to be heard.
      Frigging sick to death of this duplicitous entity,frigging sick to death of this duplicitous Westminster state.

    147. galamcennalath says:

      BBC blatant bias … there must be a reason they are stepping up their attacks.

      Something got them riled? Feart of what’s coming? 🙂

    148. Nana says:

      Perhaps Nicola should slate England’s NHS crisis at FMQs

      Capella linked to the story at 12.27am

    149. HawGaw says:

      The only thing that’s ‘deeply troubling’ is the opposition’s fevered obsession with grasping any straw, no matter how tenuous or ridiculous, that can be used to attack the SNP with. And this from people who couldn’t organise the proverbial piss up in the proverbial brewery. What a circus the opposition is, their desperation for credibility laid out for all to see.

    150. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tackety Beets says: 26 October, 2017 at 8:24 am:

      “GMS @8.15
      One of the most horrible venemous interview on NHS with Shona Robinson.”

      No Tackety Beets, you got that wrong. That wasn’t an interview – it was an out and out blatant attack with all the hallmarks of openly hostile BBC anti-Scottish bias.

      The interviewer attacker was extremely bad mannered, arrogant and overbearing. She shot questions at the Scottish Minister like a rapid fire automatic assault rifle while never allowing the interviewee the opportunity to ever finish answering the previous question. i.e. the interviewer attacker had no interest whatsoever in the Scottish Minister’s answers but only in aiming the next shot before answer could be made.

      Not only that but the interviewer attacker had a rather obvious non-Scottish accent that bore no obvious English regional accent. This suggesting either a very obviously expensive course of elocution lessons or attendance at an even more expensive, and exclusive, English public schools system education.

      Such exclusive English public schools systems tend to develop their own exclusive accents of which language experts can identify the actual educational establishment.

      That was no interview – it was undoubtable an overly aggressive, underhanded pre-planned attack.

    151. Macart says:

      Hitting back is far preferable to walking out or boycotting and here’s why.

      The minister responsible was unavailable for comment.
      The Scottish government declined/refused to comment.
      The (fill in appropriate name/title) was unavailable/declined/refused to comment

      All followed by completely unchecked and unchallenged statements, commentary, party political broadcasts by those opposed to the Scottish government.

      It’s bad and bad enough now, no question. It’s also a very human and natural reaction to tell the meeja tae gat tae. Imagine though, the field day they’d have without any Scotgov presence available.

      Just a thought.

    152. I see Sarwar is attacking Shona Robison again, this time over a report on the state of the NHS from Scotland’s public spending watchdog.

      I wonder when Sarwar and the other unionists will be actually be challenged to state what it is that they would do differently to address the problems they claim exists in the NHS.

      Of course we could shout about how wee would like to see more doctors nurses etc employed, but then that raises other problems, money spent on employing more staff means for example it can’t be spent on giving inflation busting pay rises.

      I also wonder if anyone has added up total the cost of all these spending demands these unionist parties make at Holyrood?

    153. Lenny Hartley says:

      Capella doh on iPad and it would not download, will do it from desktop. Just about to email manx radio who are reporting that the NHS UK are introducing a trial airb+b . They get their International news from Sky, I often gave to correct them, don’t know if it does any good 🙁

    154. Ken500 says:

      People use the SNHS every day and know how good it is.

      It could be better if the unionists did not waste public money at every opportunity. To line their and their cronies pockets. Criminals. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. £Trns in debt, Wasting public money like there is no tomorrow on grotesque projects of no value. No one wants.

      Some listen to the BBC and know how bad it is. Losing listeners/ viewers and credibility faster than a sieve loses water. In terminal decline. £3.7Billion for that nonsense. Most of them should be put in jail. For embezzling and defrauding public funds. A bunch of absolute liars. An utter disgrace. BBC Sexist, racist, bigoted, biased, misogynist, unequal, tax evaders, peodophiles, breaks the law. In Westminster’s Press Office pocket. The BBC funding should be cut. Wasting public money. Half the funding goes maintaining the real estate. Not on commissions programmes. Scotland £200Million out of pocket because of these cretins. Hayley Miller, Brewer, Renton, thon little hypocrite etc. Labour Mafia infiltrated. Do not listen/watch it. Boycott the unacceptable programmes

    155. Ken500 says:

      Scotland ‘spending watch dog’ is a disgrace. Labour Mafia infiltrated?

      They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Conclusions misreported?

      Audit Scotland were claiming £200Million invest to fund ferries services were unaffordable. Claimed it was a subsidy. The Isles put £Billions into the Scottish economy. Orkney/Shetland £Billions in Oil revenues. Tourism, food and drink, textile, music etc. All put £Billions into Scottish economy. Every investment in ferry services brings £Billions back. Audit Scotland claimed it was a subsidy. It is giving the Isles their own money raised back for essential services. Audit Scotland should get the sack. A total waste of taxpayers money. Ignoramouses. They can’t count or read a balance Shetland. Totally incompetent.

      Same with the reports on SNHS. Blinkers on. They do not consider the benefits of a healthier, happy population. Just the irrational negatives. Nor the constraints of unionism and Westminster fiscal inadequacies and the affects on the Scottish economy. Not fit for purpose.

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      I think that if the unionists saved the cost of every FOI request they make us pay for and then donate that sum to the Scottish NHS the SNHS could afford to employ several more staff to improve the SNHS.

    157. winifred mccartney says:

      Disgraceful interview on RS this morning with Shona Robison – interviewer was ill-mannered and continuously interrupted – the only word she seemed to know was ‘when’ usual bbc with their snp baaad bingo card. Scotland should be proud of the NHS and the work it does and should be congratulating it.

      I’m not saying everything is perfect and it never will be-we are all human after all, but the BBC needs to get a grip and at the very least be good mannered and allow people to finish answers without the constant interrupting and barracking from interviewers.

      Yet still they wonder why we do not believe them or trust them. We. who are on the receiving end of NHS know the great job they are doing and when the BBC tells us different we know to believe – our own eyes and ears.

    158. call me dave says:

      Hmm! £60 a week to take in a ‘bed blocker’ for a couple of weeks is the next NHS idea darn Sarf!

      Oh Kay punting it on shortbread radio as a possible goer North of the wall. £40 also goes into hospital fund.

      World War I famous poem written out in poppies on selected sites in England, Wales and France… why not Scotland… Oh! 🙂

    159. Alex Clark says:


      Yes, I agree with that view. You won’t get anywhere by chickening out you have to confront them instead with facts.

      My mum always told me that you should stand up to bullies and that’s what we must do if we are to win.

    160. cearc says:

      re. pensions, nana’s link from 11.05pm.

      I can’t find a publishing date for this but it appears to be from before theEUref. In this context ‘publishing’ means burying.

      It also takes no account of the fall of the pound which was well known to be inevitable following an out vote.

    161. Capella says:

      Strong statement by the UN rep against Spanish repression and for the right to hold a referendum. Well worth a read. Points out that Spanish law should comply with human rights (which is what the EU should be pointing out too).

      Link from Nana :

    162. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi cearc.

      According to the embedded info, it was created on “26 May 2016 20:10”.

    163. Alex Clark says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      You sleuth! LOL

    164. Robert Peffers says:

      @winifred mccartney says: 26 October, 2017 at 10:23 am:

      “Yet still they wonder why we do not believe them or trust them.

      Look on the bright side, Winifred. It is the obvious amateurish, nakedly biased, unionist hatred of all things Scottish by such ill informed, ill educated and sick minded BBC Scotland employees that is pushing down the both BBC Scotland’s viewer and listener figures.

      We really should be thanking such BBC employees for their help in making BBC Scotland kill itself off. It must be running at a loss already. Now I know my circle of friends and acquaintances is fairly small now due to my disabilities restriction me getting out and about but I really do not know anyone who actually believed the BBC or indeed pays a TV licence fee.

      For myself I am entitled to claim a free TV licence but as I don’t watch TV anymore I have no reason to apply for one. Nor do I feel it is my legal duty to inform the BBC that I therefore have no need for a TV receiving licence and there is no legal reason for me to do so.

      As a result I have a very thick wad of BBC threatening letters that I believe are illegally badgering me and threatening me with legal action. In spite of which threatening letters and being at home almost always now, not a single visit by the BBC’s enforcers have ever called at this address. So every one of those threatening letters costs the BBC a little more revenue and each one adds to the evidence that the BBC is stalking me and threatening me with what they falsely imply are law enforcement, “Officers”.

      If they ever do get round to making a visit they just might find themselves in the dock on charges of stalking or even under the Scottish law of coercion:-


      The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another’s freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim’s reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

    165. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Re Radio Shortbreads blatant attack on Shona Robinson this a.m.

      The BritNats in Holyrood and their Propaganda Wing (BBC et al) have been trying for The SNHS Ministers scalp for some time now.

      They were desperate for her to be moved in the last reshuffle and now this mornings disgrace of an ‘interview’.

      The BritNats are ganting for a resignation or reshuffle, they need it to continue the ESSENNPEEBAAAAAD ergo SNHS, Polis Scotland, Scottish Fire&Rescue failing meme.

      They tried it with Derek Mackay not long ago (Forth Road Bridge closure) and he weathered that storm.

      The BritNats NEED Shona Robinson to be replaced so they can push the ‘gone due to failure of SNHS under SNP’ and ‘Sturgeon pushes Robinson in front of the bus rather than take responsibility for SNHS failures herself’ line that will already be written and ready to go across all the UKOK Dead Tree Scrolls and TV Propaganda outfits.

      The First Minister and Health Secretary should stand firm and retaliate with cold hard fact:

      The SNP led SNHS is consistently the best performing NHS in the UK month on month and year on year.

      Better than the Tory run ENHS

      Better than the Labour run WNHS

      The SNHS and its workers ARE NOT a political football

    166. ronnie anderson says:

      When you do nothing they become emboldened .

      I have said long since the Snp SG should bring forward a bill to remove BBC from Holyrood , the time of being polite in interviews by Ministers of SG is long past Call the Interviewers OUT or Walk OUT , more so during televised Interviews , that seemingly is less aggressive than radio .

    167. Greannach says:

      I had hoped that BBC Scotland would improve under Donalda MacKinnon’s leadership, because it was hard to imagine it could become any worse than it was.

      Maybe they’re doing it deliberately to encourage people to question the reputation and role of the BBC.

      But I don’t they are.

    168. Capella says:

      I didn’t hear the R Scotland attack on Shona Robinson but I’ve heard enough now to last till Independence Day.
      Glancing at the Scottish papers’ front pages it appears to be another co-ordinated attack using Audit Scotland as the trigger.

      Audit Scotland itself doesn’t have very much to say other than some fairly bland remarks about something different needs to be done but doesn’t specify what. They acknowledge the high level of commitment of SNHS staff and high satisfaction levels with the public.

      Unfortunately for the hysterical mob in the BBC newsrooms, MSM and opposition parties, most of us have had an excellent standard of care from the NHS. Nothing can top personal experience except the most extreme propaganda effort – such as we are currently experiencing.

    169. Brian Powell says:

      And if something happens to the patient who has been moved to a nearby house to unblock a bed?

      Doctor’s insurance premiums are huge. How would the householder protect themselves against being sued by patient or relatives of the patient?

      It’s a half arsed scheme as usual from desperate Tories. As with Brit workers would suddenly replace all EU workers on the farms.

    170. Robert Graham says:

      with you Ronnie .
      How many times have folk here moaned about the BBC (lost count)

      The management of the SNP would do well to watch how Sebastian Gorka disarms hostile interviewers , i am in no way defending Garka or his views just the way he approaches interviews , he is the only one who makes Brillo nut shit himself and watch what he says.
      The BBC have a role to play dont assist them by continually complying with their requests for someone to make up the numbers and offer up a target .

    171. mike cassidy says:

      I keep saying –

      Undermine them with humour.

      Shona Robinson should have just said

      “You clearly got out of the wrong side of the hospital bed this morning, Hayley”.

      Job done.

      Because if they come back with a ‘your not taking this seriously’ remark –

      All you have to say is that its hard to be serious when you don’t listen to any of the answers….

      Its not rocket science, people.

      Just a packet of strepsils.

    172. Jack Murphy says:

      Off Topic. Catalonia—-Freedom of the Press in Catalonia.

      The Broadcasters of Catalonia,TV3 and others respond in VIDEO STATEMENT:

    173. Alex Clark says:

      @Jack Murphy

      Very brave and that’s what it takes when standing up to bullies.

    174. Effijy says:

      bbc propaganda channel in all out attack on Scottish Health Secretary this morning.

      Let us run over this yet again. Labour managed NHS Scotland for many years while there were no Austerity Cuts, when the population was smaller, when the population had a younger average age, when
      there were fewer treatments and surgeries available, and they delivered a far INFERIOR service to what we have today.

      Lets look at how today’s Labour Party would run NHS Scotland by looking at NHS Wales where they have always been in control since their parliament was formed. It runs at 20% points beneath NHS Scotland which is managed well by our SNP Government.

      So Labour were a dismal failure in the past, are a dismal failure now and I fully expect that they can maintain their dismal failure in the future.

      Hands up all those who want to replace the most successful NHS
      Body in the UK with the worst performing one.

      No we don’t count you Mr Sarwar or the Beeb’s Donalda!

      The petition against BBC Bias is picking up again due to this morning’s disgraceful fascist fiasco interview.

      Do you think that you should sign it, or just complain to the BBC board and get a condescending e-mail back advising that you are wrong, again?

    175. Artyhetty says:

      I know someone with serious illness who is receiving top class Scottish NHS treatment. Reads the torygragh, says treatment great, even when the ‘NHS is in crisis’. So, how can you be receiving top class, innovative treatment to prolong your life, but for that organisation to be in crisis. It’s called being deluded, blinkered lest you have to take a reality check.

      The problem is, many just do not see any distinction between the Scottish NHS, and the rUK NHS. To some they are all the same, and to acknowledge that SNHS is doing far better than rUK, is having to admit that the SNP are doing a sterling job, working in the interests of Scotland, even for those who hate them.

      SNP needs to point out every time that our NHS is autonomous, but forced to depend on funding levels from London. A few crumbs chucked back when they have taken our revenues. Imagine what the unionist parties would be doing to Scotland right now if they could. It’s bad enough now with the britnats attempts to scupper any progress being made by the SNP, for our society and country.

      They really would lay waste to our services and infrastructure. They are most likely planning to do just that once their brexit is done and dusted.

      I feel a chill at the thought.

    176. mike cassidy says:

      Robert Graham 11.46

      It looks like Gorka has been at it again!

      Anybody with a link to this?

      Here is Gorka happy to be interviewed while questioning the whole process at the same time.

      For balance, here he is barely able to control his contempt while being handed his testicles

      And if you have the time, its worthwhile checking out this comic take on him. A fine Boris Karloff impersonation!

    177. Arthur Martin says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker 11:06am

      Well said pal!.
      I just spent last week in Forth Valley Hospital Larbert having been admitted with acute abdominal pain. This was diagnosed as a kidney stone after X-ray and CT scans and the not so wee bugger removed under a general anaesthetic.
      I have nothing but praise for the hard worked staff of our Scottish NHS. They are nothing short of brilliant and like yourself I loathe seeing them used as a political football. Our SNHS is vitally important to the people of Scotland, and we must fight tooth and nail against the Red & Blue Tories in their efforts to use it as a means to undermine our democratically elected Scottish government.

      The staff of the SNHS from the domestics, porters, nurses, doctors, surgeons and a myriad other support staff are in my eyes everyday heroes and heroines and should be treated and respected as such.

      I long for the day when Scotland is bold enough to seize it’s Independence and we can build a society where people like those working in our SNHS are rewarded properly for their devotion and sacrifice to all the peoples of this Nation.

    178. gus1940 says:

      Is it not time that our looneytunes Colonialist politicians and their media fan club are told re NHS Targets just what a target is – namely something to be aimed for – NOT a promise or committment.

      As regards achieving Scottish NHS targets it is clear that our SNP government put the other UK governments to shame when compared to their omnishmabolic performances.

    179. Tackety Beets says:

      Ref interutions etc in interviews.

      I remember someone ( Possibly G’Beater) posted here years ago suggesting an option when in the situation like Shona R this morning.

      As soon as you are interrupted, go silent and say nothing until prompted again by the commentator/attacker(Thanks Robert Peffers…smiley fing) , this leaves the interviewer with arkward silence etc
      It also makes for lots of choice retorts, when you break your silence.

      “O Sorry I did not want to be rude and interrupt you”

      “O sorry , I was waiting for you to finnish”

      Ach ye get the drift, make the b********ds suffer!

      I should remind folk a few weeks back on GMS Keith Brown hit back & did quite well over the new A9 project.

    180. Dr Jim says:

      If you’ve got BBC watch at 1.30 Reporting Scotland
      You think this morning was bad wait for it

      This is going to run and run coz it’s all they’ve got to scare people with

    181. Ken500 says:

      The Tories cut £4Billion a year from NHS for five years up to 2020. £20Billion. Scotland cut accordingly. The Scottish Gov has had to litigate to compensate, accordingly. Minimum pricing would have saved SNHS money. Passed in 2012 by all parties, except Labour. The Tory whisky association has held it up. Court decision in up to four months. This could have saved SNHS etc £1Billion a year. Cost SNHS £12Billion a year. Increased to compensate by Scottish Gov. The Scottish Gov will have to find a way to relieve too much sugar in process food. In the food and drink industry.

      The SNHS tries to save money by not dealing with minor complains which become major. Causes more need for treatment and costs more by not being nipped in the bud. That is up to the medical profession to sort that out. They can easily identify where problems should be sorted out. Prevention is better than cure.

      Drink/drug total abstinence saves money. Doctors receive no essential training in drink/drug abuse unless they specialise. That is out of date. That is up to the medical profession/unis to sort out. Medical training should be decided by postcode where there are shortages. Less accepted training for those from elsewhere. Trained Doctors should be required to work in NHS for 5 years before they disappear elsewhere. The training is so expensive. To get value for money.

      People are receiving appointments promptly and earlier than expected for non emergency treatments. Improved time scales.

      Audit Scotland and these other bunches are not fit for purpose. The should be sacked. Biased and not impartial. They can’t evaluate services. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Not a balanced report. Look at all the negatives not balance with the positives of the service. More healthy, happy people relieved to be in good hands of majority of consummate professionals.

    182. Petra says:

      @ Alistair Donaldson says at 8:53 am …… ”I agree with many who post here that it really is high time that our representatives stopped wearing kid-gloves and learned to talk over our false news presenters; give as good as they get….”

      I totally agree with you Alistair (and others). I never heard the interview this morning but can just imagine it. Many SNP politicians seem to be in need of some kind of ‘media training’ to help them to deal with cherry-picking biased reporters. Stop allowing them to dictate the (their) agenda. Take the opportunity (the interview) to start spouting facts, such as SNHS and / or comparisons with England / Wales, by ignoring their first question, initially, and saying ”before we get on to that are you aware that …”.

      One example that comes to mind is when someone is hit with ‘you’re not using all of your new powers.” I would commence by saying ”All of our new powers? Do you and your viewers realise that Westminster still has control over 80% of economic levers and 85% of welfare powers (and elaborate if possible).”

      I would even go as far as to respond to their first (or further) question by saying ”Oh, I see that you’ve decided to cherry-pick data now” or even ”you’re coming across as being extremely biased.”

      They can edit what you have to say of course, so always have someone on your side record the interviews. Then inform (and record) the BBC that SNP politicians will no longer accept interviews if the practise continues. If that doesn’t work make a statement to that effect at Holyrood or whatever and hope that that doesn’t get edited too, lol. If so that’s where social media kicks in.

      There’s masses of information online relating to ‘how to deal with a biased reporter’ and numerous companies that offer training courses.

      Time to turn the tables on them and use their interviews to our advantage, imo.

      As ONE example of many:

      Taking a leaf out of Jeanne Freeman’s book would help. Maybe she should think of holding workshops? Note that Andrew Neil never invited her onto any of his shows following this one.


      Well done to individuals such as G A Ponsonvy and Peter Bell who continue to work their butts off to highlight BBC bias. A great big thank you from me, and no doubt thousands of others, for the great work that you are doing folks.

    183. HandandShrimp says:

      The great thing about UK health is that we can see 4 different policies in effect across the 4 countries by 4 different parties. I know which one is best even if the BBC doesn’t.

      The report has some very positive things to say but as ever they are tacked on to the end of yet another “we are all doomed” piece of BBC pish.

      I only read the website….I don’t do the TV version.

    184. Dr Jim says:

      Just read a report which says immigration to Scotland will rise by 450.000 by 2025 and you might wonder HOW? well apparently it will be *inward* migration from England of mostly pensionable aged folk

      It used to be we were a holiday camp for shooting birds now it looks like we’re going to be used as a rest home for the elderly escaping a system they don’t like to move to Scotland and vote against one they do thus turning it into the same S…e they’re running away from

    185. Fred says:

      This Hayley Miller person probably has personal problems of which we’re unaware. Imagine living in the same hoose as that targe, nae wonder she has personal problems. She’s been well schooled!

    186. stewartb says:

      Many thanks to Nana and to Capella for pointing to the UN ‘expert’s’ statement on Spain’s actions towards Catalonia.

      It contains a section of wider relevance that merits being quoted. There is a lot of content here that is notable.

      “… While the principle of territorial integrity is important, as understood in many United Nations Resolutions, including GA Resolutions 2625 and 3314, it is intended to be applied externally, to prohibit foreign threats or incursions into the territorial integrity of sovereign States. This principle cannot be invoked to quench the right of all people, guaranteed under Article 1 of the International Covenants on Human Rights, to express their desire to control their futures.

      The right of self-determination is a right of peoples and not a prerogative of States to grant or deny. In case of a conflict between the principle of territorial integrity and the human right to self-determination, it is the latter that prevails.

      Of course, there are many peoples worldwide who aspire to self-determination, whether internal in the form of autonomy or external in the form of independence. And while the realization of self-determination is not automatic or self-executing, it is a fundamental human right that the international community should help implement.”

      The statement goes on:

      “The international law of self-determination has also progressed far beyond mere decolonization. Applying the 15 criteria contained in my 2014 report (paras 63-77), it is evident that no state can use the principle of territorial integrity to deny the right of self-determination and that arguments about the legality of actions taken by Catalonia’s elected parliament are immaterial. Such arguments do not nullify the ius cogens* character of self-determination.”

      (* an international norm from which no derogation is permitted.)

      This statement makes the relative silence of the EU on the matter deafening!

    187. Fred says:

      Is this Millar Irish? educated in N.Ireland, obviously missed out on manners!

    188. geeo says:

      Thanks for linking that Jean Freeman interview, Petra, a wee reminder of just how brilliant she is.

      I personally would have no issue with her fronting the Yes campaign. I see no reason to hide the Yes campaign from SNP politicians who, frankly, drive the indy bus.

      Someone with Jean’s background is perfect, ex labour, then independent in 2014 (women for Independence) and now, part of the SG, where she is fighting to give Scots the chance to make an informed choice on their future.

      If it helps, Jean could decline the SNP whip for the duration of the next Yes Campaign, so that she can use the line in that linked interview regarding not representing the SNP in her role.

      I think she is perfect for the role.

    189. gus1940 says:

      Whatever happened to the fantastic (not) plan to put bedblockers in England into private homes to free up hospital beds which was being shouted from the rooftops on all media earlien.

      Given that there was no mention of it whatsoever on the 1pm BBC News it would appear that the powers that be have realised that the scheme would be completely impractical and unworkable and have instructed their media lackeys to kill the story.

    190. One_Scot says:

      Been trying to follow events in Catalonia/Spain, but have no idea what is currently happening. Does anyone know what the latest situation is?

    191. wee bud says:

      I was unfortunate enough to catch Norn Irn escapee Hayley Millars latest attempt at interviewing on good morning shiteland this morning.
      Having heard her before I thought she had been schooled into asking the same questions and constantly interrupting.. It was a poor attempt to trip Shona Robison up and failed miserably due to Shona not taking the bait..
      I’ve been quite impressed with her and others like Derek McKay who stay cool under pressure and thought Millar was more flustered than Shona.. Too bad she couldn’t ask her the NHS stats for Norn Irn..

    192. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY.Scottish Parliament TV.


      Now Archived and available to view here:

    193. ronnie anderson says:

      @ One _Scot Puigdemont is pissing people off with his indecision he’s losing credibility as a Leader .

    194. call me dave says:


      Yes your right ‘big BBC’ dampening down such speculation earlier, it was a silly hospital doctor darn Sarf that mentioned it… all a mistake really.

    195. Alex Clark says:


      Live video from outside the parliament building NOW. Big protest

    196. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim says at 1:21 pm …. ”Just read a report which says immigration to Scotland will rise by 450.000 by 2025 and you might wonder HOW? well apparently it will be *inward* migration from England of mostly pensionable aged folk. It used to be we were a holiday camp for shooting birds now it looks like we’re going to be used as a rest home for the elderly escaping a system they don’t like to move to Scotland and vote against one they do thus turning it into the same S…e they’re running away from.”

      Someone should be looking into this Dr Jim. Carrying out some kind of research into how many people have chosen to make Scotland their home over the last 10 years or so; by age, gender and identity. Go further of course and establish who / how many people have (are) received operations, social care etc. Maybe it’s been done so already but they don’t consider it conducive for us to know of the findings?

      It’s amazing how many agencies can poll for this that and the next thing. How research is carried out on just about everything you can clap your eyes on in Scotland with Freedom of Information requests going into overdrive. So what about someone establishing how many elderly people we’re now catering for in Scotland and where they originally came from?

      I’m sure that my comments will annoy someone or another, but we have to ascertain what exactly is going on here, imo, and Nicola Sturgeon won’t be in a position to do so. ”Baad SNP racists.”

      As Westminster policies hit the young homeless, the disabled, those with larger families, the sick and the elderly many will see Scotland as being a haven to flee to, as per your figures. That’s all very well and good. Most of us empathise with all of these groups of people, detest what Westminster is doing, but is it going to turn Scotland into an economic shambles? Lessen our chances of getting our Independence?

      The sick and elderly are not only moving north of the border. I was reading about the case of an elderly English woman who had emigrated to the US and when she became chronically ill and couldn’t afford her medical expenses decided to return to Scotland, not England, with her US husband. And what of the elderly living in Europe? With Brexit are they going to decide to return to Scotland too?

      I’ve also come across a number of people who told me that they sold up their fairly cheap properties down south, along with their elderly relatives, to enable them to buy properties in Scotland and then placed their elderly relatives in care homes. It just beggar’s belief what’s going on here!

      More than anything what can we do about it? Start charging ‘foreigners’ for their medical treatment, as Westminster is doing right now? We can’t of course, so what to do?

      As Westminster tosses out decent highly taxed, non-EU citizens they are being replaced by many people who are a drain on our economy. Maybe that’s part of their master plan, eh?

    197. Sarah says:

      @One-Scot: liz castro twitter is very good too – the latest information comes from her even more quickly than from Catalansforyes and cataloniadirect. She puts on a lot in Catalan [?] but also English [none in Scots yet!] so its worth scrolling through.

      @Ronnie Anderson: Puigdemont is clever – no-one killed yet and international support building. Rajoy can’t do anything if a fully “legal” election result is for Catalan independence. [I would like the election sooner, of course!]

    198. One_Scot says:


    199. Chick McGregor says:

      Thanks for that link Nana, stewartb

      That is probably the clearest and most direct statement yet from the UN itself on the evolving ‘territorial integrity’ v ‘self determination’ situation, well that I have seen anyway.

      Previously, e.g. Kosovo, they have tended to punt the issue to the ICJ.

      Another notable notch on the ratchet of travel from territorial integrity to self determination.

      WM and the Whitehall mandarins will not be best pleased with that (unless they can bury it completely).

    200. geeo says:

      Perhaps now, after events in Catalonia, people realise why the SNP/Wider Yes campaign, have not been linking the Catalan situation too closely with our own indy movement.

      Completely different things.

      In Spain, threats are winning, sadly, helped by complete indecision by the Catalan leader.

      Without an imminent Declaration of Independence, i fear the pro independence movement in Catalonia could fragment and crumble.

      A fear of the Madrid government reaction seems to have overcome the Catalan leadership.

      Spain will NOT negotiate on this issue, so if Catalans want independence, they may need to invite the Spanish government on to them, and hope the expected violent suppression fuels an unstoppable resolve amongst ALL Catalans, horrified by such a response, towards independence.

      Catalans LIKE their autonomous parliament, even those who are anti independence, so a crushing of that democracy by Madrid, of that parliament, is not going to play out well.

      I fully accept it is easy for outsiders to say what i just have, but can anyone really see an alternative to achieve Catalonian independence ?

      UDI swiftly followed by an official request to the U.N. and EU to formally recognise such a move is the only way to get those organisations to act officially.

      Until that happens, neither will act, and frankly, how can they ?

      Okay, they could condemn the violence by police etc, but until the Catalan government actually present a case to the U.N./EU, there is no case to answer to for those organisations.

      It is like here, unionists demand an explanation on every tiny detail of an indy Scotland’s future, but that completely misses the point.
      We are not voting Yes or No to what currency etc we want to use, we are voting Yes or No to have the right to make our own choices on such things.

      If Catalonia declares independence, then the U.N./EU MUST address that issue as a matter of urgency or risk losing credibility.

      Fudging the issue by the Catalan government simply allows the U.N./EU to do likewise.

    201. Alex Clark says:


      There is an alternative, have the elections that Spain is asking for and gain majority support for those parties seeking Independence.

      I doubt then that support for Independence can be ignored by the EU.

    202. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      geeo @ 14:58,

      Oh, there’s nothing like an instant rush to judgement in a rapidly-evolving situation, is there? =grin=

      This thing is cat-and-mouse. Both in Catalonia and here. No instant answers, and a lot of patience needed.

      Even if it grates.

    203. geeo says:

      @sarah 2.31pm

      Not sure that Madrid would recognise an election result in Catalonia where a mandate for independence was specifically sought.

      They (madrid) would surely quote the Spanish constitution stating that such action is illegal under Spanish law.

      Of course, it looks good to the indy cause if such an election produced a strong pro indy majority, but only to highlight the credibility of a declaration of independence, recognised OUTWITH Spain (by U.N./EU).

      Which takes us back to my last post, no independence declaration = no further progress.

      If the Catalan government try to hold an election with a mandate for UDI at the forefront, it would be no surprise if Madrid simply declare the election illegal and send in the state police to stop it in the same way they did during the referendum earlier this month, emboldened by previous lack of condemnation by the international community.

      It seems to me that declaring independence is the only real option available to the Catalan government, and what follows, follows.

    204. geeo says:


      I get that, but i am certain that Spain will not recognise an election result where the Pro indy parties seek to gain stated support for UDI.

      Not sure Madrid gov would even allow such elections to take place with such a caveat.

      I would even suggest this would be an express condition of holding any elections.

      Hopefully i am wrong on that, but recent history says Madrid will stop at nothing to refuse independence in that region.

    205. geeo says:


      Not sure where you think i have “rushed to judgement” on the issue ?

      It seems patently obvious that Madrid are NEVER going to engage in ANY process which results in Catalan independence.

      That is not “cat and mouse”, that is a cold hard reality.

    206. stewartb says:

      geeo @ 3:15 pm

      You say: “Not sure that Madrid would recognise an election result in Catalonia where a mandate for independence was specifically sought. They (madrid) would surely quote the Spanish constitution stating that such action is illegal under Spanish law.”

      This is where things get very interesting in the light of the UN ‘expert’s’ statement that Nana linked us to earlier and that I quoted from @1.31 pm.

      To repeat, the statement says this:

      “… no state can use the principle of territorial integrity to deny the right of self-determination and that arguments about the legality of actions taken by Catalonia’s elected parliament are immaterial. Such arguments do not nullify the ius cogens* character of self-determination.”

      (* an international norm from which no derogation is permitted.)

      It also states: “In case of a conflict between the principle of territorial integrity and the human right to self-determination, it is the latter that prevails.”

      Something for the lawyers to ponder.

    207. chocolass says:

      Totally agree with Petra on inward migration.I’ve been saying this for sometime now as I keep hearing of folk bringing their parents up here with them as they get more for their money(housing wise etc).
      So I can see our system being used to the point of no return and will they see the value of voting for independence ? Mmmmm…

    208. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi One_Scot.

      This site carries news in English.

    209. Les Wilson says:

      From Nan’s link from the UN ref Catalonia, a good pointer for Indy

      ” Such a referendum should be monitored by the EU, OSCE and private observers including the Carter Center.”

      Would seem appropriate when dealing with Westminster.

    210. geeo says:

      @stewartb 3.30pm

      Absolutely agree about the quoted UN charter statement.

      However, my point is that it will seemingly take a declaration of independence by the Catalan government to trigger the legal arguments within the charters quoted.

      Until then, Madrid will surely continue to flaunt those charters. They already have, by their reaction to the referendum even taking place.

      It seems that the Catalan gov must ASK for help in regards to the UN charters being clearly broken (via UDI) rather than a proactive UN response.

      That is clearly crazy, and a flaw in the make up of the UN itself.

      It is like calling the police while someone is trying to murder you and being told to call back for help after you have been killed.

    211. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      geeo @ 15:24,

      For example:

      A fear of the Madrid government reaction seems to have overcome the Catalan leadership.

      That looks awfu’ like a judgement to me, anyway.

      I don’t disagree that Rajoy & Co. are rigidly intransigent. But unlike you I don’t believe that is the end of the matter by any means.

      In fact, the very intransigence of the Madrid regime may well prove its undoing. Once a government loses legitimacy, all the state power it can muster turns to dust. As we have seen elsewhere in the past.

      The way forward is far more subtle than just issuing some popular proclamation then standing back to see what happens next.

    212. heedtracker says:

      Must be a slow day, beeb gimp wise. Can you guess which party the beeb gimps here have decided to not include in the fun? Its almost as if beeb gimps dont want the SNP mucking up their democracy.

      Can you match the dog to the party?
      2 hours ago
      From the section UK Politics

    213. Alex Clark says:

      I’m only opining though I’m sure that the Catalan Government knew exactly what was in store when they first the declared a date for a referendum.

      Then they had the referendum and witnessed what the Guardia did to try and prevent it, then they declared UDI bus shelved it in the hope of dialogue.

      In my eyes it’s the EU who are in failure here, they should have been mediators or appointed mediators. They may yet regret that failure because as of right now no side is for backing down.

      That can only spell trouble and it could get very messy indeed.

    214. heedtracker says:

      Cut n paste from the Times but it does say share. If we lived in an actual democracy, this would land Fluffie in court, because gerrymandering should be illegal. Although, just like that big fat slob Carmicheal, he’d wriggle off the hook.

      Scottish secretary challenged over rise in ad spending before election
      Hannah McGrath
      October 25 2017, 12:01am,

      David Mundell said he “did not know there was going to be a general election”

      David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, has faced questions over a jump in his department’s advertising spending in the months leading up to the general election.

      Deidre Brock, the SNP MP for Edinburgh North & Leith, called the Scotland Office a “propaganda unit” and challenged Mr Mundell to explain a sharp rise in monthly spending on advertising and social media activity from “a few hundred pounds” to £12,000 in March this year, the month before Theresa May called the general election.

      At a meeting of the Scottish affairs committee in Westminster, Ms Brock said: “From January 2017 to February 2017 we see spend bumping along at around about a few hundred pounds a month, sometimes none at all. It goes up to £900 in February 2017.

      “However, the spending hikes to nearly £12,000 in March 2017. Can you explain that increase just before the general election?”

      There are strict civil service rules to prevent the use of departmental staff and resources for political and campaigning activity.

      Mr Mundell said: “I hope it’s not a shock but I did not know there was going to be a general election.”

      He said that the spending increase in March was “due to a number of campaigns including childcare choices, the national minimum wage and international women’s day”.

      He added: “There are very serious and important civil service guidelines on propriety of departments using social media and I’m not aware that any of the social media used by the Scotland Office was in breach of that propriety.”

      Ms Brock also asked Mr Mundell to justify why the Scotland Office had increased its budget for communications staff and press officers from £108,439 in 2010 to nearly £686,000 in 2016-17.

      The department, which represents Scotland’s interests in the UK and acts as a bridge to the Scottish parliament in Holyrood, employs four press officers and four campaigns and digital staff. Ms Brock asked: “I wonder how you would respond to those who suggest that the Scotland Office is just a propaganda unit for the UK government?”

      Mr Mundell said that he was “disappointed” by the suggestion and hoped that his department was doing an effective job of “communicating to people in Scotland what their UK government was doing in respect of its roles and responsibilities on their behalf”.

      A Scotland Office official said that its communications team was “resourced to enable effective engagement and communication with the public” on UK government matters.

      Mr Mundell said: “I hope it’s not a shock but I did not know there was going to be a general election.”

    215. Gary45% says:

      It heard the “interview!?” on Good Morning Shortbread this morning.
      To me any trolling gimp from the Empire establishment reading wings, “Take a good long look at yourselves” the “quality!??” of the establishments current crop of employees beggars belief.
      This was not an interview is was just the same old same old from a broken establishment.
      I would say “ignorance” is the only word to describe Millers interviewing style.
      When challenged to the “Anas Sarwar wanting her to step down,” she should have replied,
      “Ok Sonic name me one politician from any of the other parties who could do a better job?”
      I think there would be total silence.
      Well done Shona.

    216. geeo says:


      For someone trying to proclaim me being judgemental (absolutely have not been) it is YOU being not only judgemental about my OPINION but also presumptious.
      I said this…

      “A fear of the Madrid government reaction SEEMS TO have overcome the Catalan leadership”.

      That is an observation, NOT a judgement.

      It is based on what the Catalans stated ambitions were, before the referendum, and their actions since the referendum, which has clearly changed, a change which can reasonable be linked to the actions of the Madrid government.

      Hence the key words, “SEEMS TO BE” rather than “BECAUSE OF”.

      I also made it very clear that the issue of Catalan independence is not at an end, in fact, i outlined a detailed OPINION of where i think the Catalans need to go next and why.

      Only an utter moron would think this is over (Catalan situation).

    217. Giving Goose says:

      I switched on the radio in the car this morning and briefly caught the Shona Robinson interview. It took me 10 seconds to realise that it was an attack interview and I then switched off the BBC.

      And that is the point!

      I’m not listening anymore. I absolutely refuse to listen to any interview conducted by the BBC with a Scottish Government spokesperson.

      I won’t be alone.

      The only people that will be interested in listening to such attacks are those who are seeking confirmation bias.

      The whole thing is both a charade and a complete waste of time.

      The Scottish Government shouldn’t bother. We’ve switched off. We don’t need to listen anymore to have it confirmed (yet again) that the BBC only exist to preserve the British State and, by extension, to attack the SNP and Scotland as a whole.

      We live (sadly) in a UK state that is in fact a “controlled democracy” and where one of the organs of that control is the BBC.

      Somehow we need to get a meme out there that states “We are not listening to the BBC”….not sure how you actually do this, although I can envisage a visual message of someone stopping or holding their hands over their ears. Any artists out there?

    218. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I have just watched the recording of FMQs today, and I really felt sorry for Nicola Sturgeon.

      Dealing with some of the questions, she was like a remedial class teacher, faced with a particularly stroppy bunch of pupils.

      Brian Whittle, Alex Rowley, Neil Findlay, James Kelly and that Scottish version of Rees-Mogg, dearie me, how does she put up with them?

      And that’s before I mention Colonel Yadaftie and her batman, Private Rennie.

      Rangers has more talent than the opposition benches at Holyrood, and the sacked Pedro was a better manager than the Colonel, the Private, and either the Dentist or the Trade Unionist – whoever gets the Red Tories poisoned chalice.

    219. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Alex Clark @ 16:10,

      The initial statements from various EU people were very damaging to their (and the EU’s) reputation, that’s undeniable. However, at the moment we can only speculate about what’s happening based on what is visible in public – we just don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes.

      Rajoy appears to have told the EU to “stay out, none of your business”, and if he remains adamant there’s a limit on what the latter can immediately do. The EU is not this mythical superstate, like the USA.

      It looks very likely that Puigedemont suspended the independence declaration right after signing it, on advice from the EU, in order to allow room for negotiation.

      OK, Rajoy is playing hardball, but in the process he’s making his position increasingly unreasonable. Backing himself into a corner.

      Puigdemont’s latest move seems designed to open up room for manoevre again, and one suspects it’s based on sound advice rather than blind funk or indecision. I would be very surprised if the EU were not involved in this somehow.

      The EU has to get involved, one way or another, because this issue concerns the common standards of human rights by which we are all supposed to operate. The first reaction from EU individuals was piss-poor, so it has a lot to live down now.

      Or put in a more positive light, it has a lot to live up to.

    220. manandboy says:

      O/T Sooner or later but the sooner the better, an Independent Scotland will begin the process of unpicking the insidious web of brainwashing undertaken by the British State in Scotland. As an independent country, Scotland should undertake and rightly, an exercise in brain-cleansing, some of which will be relatively easy while others will take time.

      Of relative ease should be the habit of referring to the UK as ‘the country’ – a favourite of the English and of Unionism everywhere and frequently heard in the House of Commons.
      There are three countries and a Province involved in the United Kingdom, but it should always be remembered that the Act of Union is between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England (which included Wales and Ireland at that time, 1707), like a woman(Scotland) who marries a man (England) who already has two children.

      What will be more difficult to erase from the Scottish psyche is the belief in ‘too wee, too poor, too stupid’ to run our own country. More than any other single piece of brainwashing, this has sustained the Union for 300 years and is still very effective today. Throughout the UK, the belief that Scots cannot pay their own way nor run their own affairs is deeply ingrained in the minds of millions.

      If we Scots are to be confident and self-assured in our Independence, we simply must get free of these self-defeating beliefs which we have inherited. This is a project that each individual can engage in without the need for anyone else’s agreement or permission, itself an attitude created by English Rule. Let’s work on it.

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @Greannach says: 26 October, 2017 at 11:36 am:

      “I had hoped that BBC Scotland would improve under Donalda MacKinnon’s leadership, because it was hard to imagine it could become any worse than it was.”

      I commented on Wings on the day they announced the Donalda MacKinnon appointment that her appointment would see the BBC attacks upon the SG, (and hence the SNP and getting on for the 50% of Scots who voted them to power at Holyrood), increased.

      I was right. That is exactly what they appointed her to do and she did not let them down. What else would we expect from a disgraceful anti-Scottish, Westminster, unionist and English/British/UK nationalist, (in the best fascist mould), organisation?

      This last blatant attack by the most useless Labour, Tory and LibDem group of political duds that it has been my displeasure to see attempt to gain power in Scotland in over 80 years.

      They are undoubtedly the most useless tripartite group of totally useless posers it has been my displeasure to see try to drag Scotland down to the same level of their equally useless Westminster masters.

      All well supported by the most disgraceful bunch of useless, unprincipled, media wallopers ever to attempt to fool the people of Scotland since they invented the printing press, radio and Television.

      Thank heavens for the internet, for with that medium the public can consign the media to the cesspit they deserve to be buried in.

      Roll on Scottish independence when we Scots can cut the English/British/UK nationalists free to go their own way. They will not be missed.

      They have already lost all the arguments and are really dead in the water – they just haven’t sunk below the surface yet – but they are, without doubt, on the way down below the surface.

      I won’t be throwing them a lifebelt or launching a lifeboat.

    222. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Giving Goose @ 16:36,

      It’s not just the Beeb today. Caught the headlines of the usual Dead Head Scrolls as I went in to get The National today, and they were all screaming about how the SNHS is in meltdown.

      Circling like hungry sharks on a feeding franzy.

      They really are desperate to pollute people’s minds with this corrosive anti-democratic scaremongering.

      Meanwhile, as long as we remain part of Brexitannia we are heading for genuine economic disaster, yet nary a peep about that real and present danger do we get from this bunch of self-serving bog rolls and their pathetic BBC echo chamber.

    223. yesindyref2 says:

      Been reading the comments about Hayley Miller’s interview of Shona Robinson. Radio is different from TV, specially face to face TV rather than over a link. Whenever you see a TV show with one in the studio and one on the link, the one on the link is always disadvantaged, whatever party or persuasion they belong to, doesn’t matter if it’s SNP, Labour or Tory, the studio present interviewee always does better. For obvious reasons, they can interrupt physically by raisng a hand, smiling at the interviewer, catching the eye, punching them in the ribs.

      The other thing is the interviewer is affected by the physical presence of the interviewee which means there are actually limits. On a link there’s isn’t the personal presence, it’s easier to be a c*nt. Radio of course is even far worse.

      All in the SNP who are going to go on any medium should train a couple of hours a week for this, using volunteers. I daresay any of us would be delighted to play the bad nasty interviewer, it’d be a hoot (they can pay for the drinks after).

      But one thing the SNP should do every time is push out which is reserved, and which is devolved. So for instance, Miller asks a question and Robison’s first answer starts with “Yes Hayley, the NHS is devolved, which means you have NHS England and Wales under the UK Government, and NHS Scotland under the Scottish Government”.

      So Miller asks the Audit Scotland question, and Robison starts the answer with “Yes, the NHS Scotland is my responsibility as a minister of the Scottish Government as it’s devolved, and I’m ….”

      The SNP need to use these attack dogs for their own purposes and then discard them like a used nappie. It’s the pubkic that matter, and the public are all too aware of two things. 1). Interviewers interrupt. 2). Politicians dodge the question. The defence is easy, point out the interruption, and always answer the question directly and honestly, and concisely, not with a 5 minute long campaign speech. They should point out every time they’re interrrupted “Don’t you want a direct answer to your question which was …?”.

      I think the public with the exception of antagonistic activists from the other side, will think “how refreshing”.

      Anyways, I don’t listen to BBC Scotland, more likely to have Clyde or West – or Hits, or Kiss, or Heart … or just blessed silence.

    224. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 16:50,

      or “in a feeding frenzy”. tsk.

    225. schrodingers cat says:

      geeo says:

      Thanks for linking that Jean Freeman interview, Petra, a wee reminder of just how brilliant she is.

      I personally would have no issue with her fronting the Yes campaign. I see no reason to hide the Yes campaign from SNP politicians who, frankly, drive the indy bus.
      I agree with this, however, I dont know how nicola and other snp high heid yins think about an snp mp leading SIC. I think that SIC has been nominated to be the replacement for yesscotland (it has the backing of salmond etc) Even if they are not against an snpmp/msp leading SIC they may still have a preference for who that will be, eg, alex salmond would be great but he doesnt need a platfom, he creates his own, (lbc etc) even john nicolson is busy on tv and radio. jeane freeman might be better representing WFI etc.

      we made up a long list of all possible candidates as leader last week but I cant see how we can draw up a short list until we know the answers to these questions.

      I would however note that the monday edition of the national, just after we had made up the long list, had a full front page image promoting SIC and elaine c smith. I dont think that was accidental

    226. wull2 says:

      Alex Clark says:
      26 October, 2017 at 2:25 pm
      Live video from outside the parliament building NOW. Big protest

      It worked earlier today now it does not ?

    227. ronnie anderson says:

      I staggered Lanseer painted Monarch of the Glen in England, who gives a tit they’re be udders ones to . When theres no news theres no news , i’ll leave it there .

    228. Robert Peffers says:

      @Arthur Martin says: 26 October, 2017 at 12:46 pm:

      “I long for the day when Scotland is bold enough to seize it’s Independence and we can build a society where people like those working in our SNHS are rewarded properly for their devotion and sacrifice to all the peoples of this Nation.”

      Very well said indeed, Arthur, and it was something very much needing to be said.

    229. manandboy says:

      O/T and of little consequence. The BBC’s coverage of the sacking of the Ibrox Club’s manager is not to be measured by the standards of football but rather as a testament to the fact that the former club Rangers FC was very much a part of the British Establishment. Sadly that club was liquidated in 2012 due in a very large measure to the illegal activities of the club under its chairman Sir David Murray who was, some say, somewhat sardonically knighted by The Establishment for services to Scottish Industry.
      It’s enough to make you smile.

    230. Alex Clark says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      I sincerely hope that you are right because something must be done.

    231. crazycat says:

      Pedant alert:

      Inevitably, given its subject, this thread contains numerous references to the Health Secretary.

      Her surname is Robison, not Robinson.

      A lot of posters are getting this wrong, some are getting it right, and some are doing both in the same post.

      Is this a consequence of predictive text? If so, surely it is possible to reject the suggested word-completion.

      Maybe it doesn’t matter; it’s obvious to whom the posters are referring. But I think it is more respectful to make the effort to get people’s names right (e.g. Michelle Thomson, not Michele Thompson, as she has been called on here a fair few times).

      Rant over 🙂

    232. Alex Clark says:


      Stop being so crabbit, I make spelling mistakes all the time 🙂

    233. yesindyref2 says:

      “and some are doing both in the same post”

      You talkin to me, you talkin to me?

      Ah well crazycat, a lot of posters were talking about Robinson whoever she is, so I was just quoting them!

      (I think I got out of that one …)

    234. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tackety Beets says: 26 October, 2017 at 12:51 pm:

      “I remember someone ( Possibly G’Beater) posted here years ago suggesting an option when in the situation like Shona R this morning.
      As soon as you are interrupted, go silent and say nothing until prompted again by the commentator/attacker(Thanks Robert Peffers…smiley fing) , this leaves the interviewer with arkward silence etc

      Ah! Yes! Tackety Beets, it may well have been me who posted that. It was one of the techniques I used to adopt during my Shop Stewarding days. It is indeed very effective and it does indeed, “pit thir gas at a wee peep”.

      Mind you, you cannot use it too often. The next time the person you used it on is in debate with you they do not forget and they will adopt other tactics in attempting to put you down.

      Thing is that there are definite rules of debate and when you are aware of them you are aware of how to counteract them.

      Thing is, with media interviews, you are in their domain and they thus start off with a psychological advantage. However, it is possible to learn the techniques they will likely employ against you.

      Note though that broadcasters, especially those who profess to be unbiased, are supposed to play fare in interviews. The BBC have become the most unprofessional and biased broadcasters in the entire United Kingdom – if not the planet.

    235. Alex Clark says:

      Sorry cearc it was crazycat LOL That’s me going back in the shed.

    236. crazycat says:

      @ yesindyref2

      Of course you were; no other explanation crossed my mind. 😉

    237. manandboy says:

      heedtracker says:

      “However, the spending hikes to nearly £12,000 in March 2017. Can you explain that increase just before the general election?”

      Mr Mundell said: “I hope it’s not a shock but I did not know there was going to be a general election.”

      Thanks for that heedtracker – a good job well done.
      If it sounds like a lie and feels like a lie and is at least extremely suspicious – oh scrap that, it was the tory Mundell, of course its a lie.
      Backdated, Theresa May tells the UK for months that there will be no general election and then SNAP! she calls one and it just so happens that the Tories in Scotland are at the same time getting ready for a very expensive mass media and social media campaign in the targeted seats of the biggest thorns in May’s side at Westminster, Alex Salmond, Angus Robertson, Pete Wishart and Tasmina – but it was all just a coincidence?
      Someday, Mundell will go to jail. He’ll be safer there. On second thoughts maybe not.

    238. yesindyref2 says:


      The SNP are very annoying. The biggest weapon against the bias of the media is truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yet the SNP respond as politicians, and the public as a whole just doesn’t like politicians, of any flavour.

      And yet, again, the SNP are a way ahead when it comes to honesty, one of their most appealing qualities, being genuine. But they keep responding as the Westminster politicians do, with [re[ared speeches rather than answering questions, and even with evasions.

      They don’t need to do this, they really don’t, not from what I see and hear people saying. Nobody expects perfection.

      Sure, it gives the opponents something to talk about, so what? By doing so they are the ones showing themselves to be dishonest.

      Basically speaking Scotland is honest, and respects honesty, it’s been known worldwide (well, Holland, Germany, Sweden, any place or nationality I’ve talked to in my quite long life), for honesty and integrity.

      So fsking use that!

    239. Robert Peffers says:

      @gus1940 says: 26 October, 2017 at 1:46 pm:

      “Whatever happened to the fantastic (not) plan to put bedblockers in England into private homes to free up hospital beds which was being shouted from the rooftops on all media earlien.”

      Oh! You’re well behind the times, Gus1940. The news broke some time ago :-

      “A hospital has backed down over plans for patients to recuperate in people’s homes as part of an, “Airbnb-style”, trial.

      Southend Hospital in Essex said it has , “No intention … to support the pilot at this time”.

      The trial by healthcare start-up CareRooms involves 30 hospital patients staying in local residents’ spare rooms while waiting to be discharged.

      It had been criticised by politicians and health groups as a, “ridiculous”, idea.

    240. manandboy says:

      If only Mundell had said: ” I did not know there was going to be a General Election.” This is how you tell the truth.

      But he inserts the words ” I hope it’s not a shock” beforehand. This is how you tell a lie.

    241. crazycat says:

      @ Alex Clark in the shed

      I’m not being crabbit; I’m being an ex-editor – and using a smiley face.

      (As I said, it doesn’t inhibit understanding. I also make typing errors, even though I read the preview box, but we all made fun of Ruth Harrison, and it can’t hurt to be super-alert about our government and its ministers.)

    242. Petra says:

      @ stewartb at 1:31pm ……..

      Good one. There’ll be something in there to help us no doubt …. when the time comes …. next year, lol.


      I read somewhere that if Rajoy decides to hold an election the pro-Independence parties will be banned from standing. I wonder if he can do that?

    243. manandboy says:

      Re Mundell.

      A lie is not the same as the truth. So the liar intuitively dresses up the lie in an attempt to make it look and sound like the truth.
      That’s what Mundell has done here. He should resign.

    244. yesindyref2 says:

      An example of that honesty thing by the way, I worked in Germany, in Swabia, worked to learn German (High German of course!)and got quite fluent. Used to go of a night to the Holiday Inn nearly opposite for happy hour and of course free sausage soup (spicy, mmm, delicious). Got talking to business folk, it was a fashion area but you’d also get engineers in there.

      When they found I was Scottish (not really an accent unless p*d out of my bracket), their response was almost universal “When we talk to the English they tell us it’s not done that way. When we talk to the Scots they say they’ve never done it that way before but it sounds interesting and they’d like to give it a go”.

      Quite a lot of years ago, it’d be interesting to know the perception these days.

    245. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Crazycat If your gonnae be ah Pedant bring the full weight to bear LoL

    246. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s CareRooms explanatory page.

    247. Ken500 says:

      Audit Scotland should be sacked. They are not evaluating consistently.

      Anyone can get a Doctor emergency appointment by phoning before nine.

      The NHS is always trying to save money by not attention to minor ailments, which can become major. It costs more in the long run.

      If so much had not been wasted on the Trams more could have been spent in the NHS etc, etc. If more money had not been spent on illegal wars. More can be spent on the NHS.

      The Tories cut £4Billion a year from NHS spending from 2015 till 2020. Cuts £20Billion.

      No minimum pricing since 2012. It has cost the NHS etc £1Billion a year. – £5Billion. The Tory Whisky association action killed more people. Some whisky companies make vast profits and pay no tax. Tax evade. No reduction in sugar in processed foods, No sugar tax. Another way around will have to be found.

      The Medical facilities in Scotland are excellent. They could be better if Scotland was Independent. No funds wasted on illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud and Brexit. Brexit could lose essential medical staff and medical science funding. A total disaster.

    248. Robert Graham says:

      STV News in the background, showing Tories outside Holyrood holding a banner “save our surgeries ” This is really taking the piss , f/n Lying b/rds , it wouldn’t surprise me if the red tories were making up the numbers, but the camera never zoomed in , bloody cheek and brass neck .

    249. geeo says:

      Catalan president rules out a snap election.

    250. yesindyref2 says:

      OT Catalonia
      I personally think Puigdemont’s playing a blinder with a deck stacked against him but time will tell. Seems he offered to hold elections in return for no suspension from Madrid and Rajoy refused. I think it’s building up the legal battle ahead, but could be wrong of course.

    251. geeo says:


      Agree completely about emergency appointments being fairly freely available.

      Our surgery has employed extra staff such as nurse practitioners who take huge numbers of minor ailment cases out of the GP Schedules, with the safety net of being able to give an immediate GP referral if and when they feel it needs one.

      They also have extra district nurses and health visitors available, funded mostly be a review of available services leading to efficiency savings such as mentioned above.

      There are also dedicated drop in appointments with GP’s available at least twice a week.

      They are brilliant.

      Last time i needed an appointment, i went in at 8.30am to look for one and was out the surgery by 8.50am after seeing a nurse practitioner AND a GP in that 20 min period.

      Not saying that happens every time, but our GP service is outstanding imo.

    252. geeo says:

      A wee reminder that Alex Salmond on QT tonight with an insufferable tory twat.

      Oh aye…and Jacob Rees Mogg is there as well…

    253. Dr Jim says:

      One can only think opposition to Independence for Scotland amongst Unionists must be softening considerably for the BBC and the Scottish press to be as openly and vitriolically hostile to the Scottish government as they are at this moment

      It’s like they’re having a panic attack that people could be changing their minds from absolute NO voters to let’s get the hell out of this mental Union that clearly isn’t working

      On a day when they complain about our NHS in Scotland not being a million percent perfect Englands NHS is asking people to rent out their spare bedrooms to the NHS for patients they can’t handle in hospitals

      You’ll all have noticed how Scotlands media forgot to report that Englands NHS has collapsed altogether ready and waiting to be replaced by the new shiny Richard Branson private American version and that’s one of the reasons why English folk are starting to pack their toothbrushes to move to Scotland

    254. yesindyref2 says:

      OT defence again
      Petition 1,000 short of the 10,000, offical denial already but worth punting anyway to keep it active. Scotland doing as well as England, with an orange around Arbroath where our Royal Marines are, to match the ones in SW England where their’s are. Could Indy supporters take it over the 10,000, that’d be a laugh …

    255. Dr Jim says:

      @ Petra

      I don’t mind who comes to Scotland to live we’ve got tons of room, what I do mind is at a time when the English government is kicking out EU citizens and scaring off other nationalities who might be of working tax paying age, they’re making it impossible for their own elderly people to stay in their own country so they end up coming to Scotland when they can neither work nor pay tax and Scotland is not in a position to sustain that expense plus when they get here as we all know by majority they’re against Independence for Scotland so that makes it even more unsustainable because they want what we’ve got but don’t want us to have what we want

      How do you spell conundrum without making it sound abusively racist

    256. starlaw says:

      Westminster must be in a panic re. Scotland A clearly co-ordinate attack today on Scottish government run NHS. However hard they try and lie the word of mouth by patients will prevail, and as for the BBC attack on Shona Robertson this morning I hope many people heard it I hope it has been recorded as it is a prime example of the behaviour of these so called journalists employed by the BBC, and their attitude towards their own country.

    257. Legerwood says:


      Apparently the Labour MP Jared O’Mara who has been suspended by the Labour party was not interviewed before he was selected as a candidate. In seats they did not expect to win Labour selected candidates on the basis of CVs etc. They did not expect to win that seat so no interview.

      Report on CH4 news last night. Apologies if it has already been posted.

    258. heedtracker says:

      Wildly O/T

      Why oh why DID the beeb gimp network make a neo fascist like Fuhrage a household name of BBC greatness again?

      The Times says share so,

      Ministers are blamed as demand for cars crashes
      Domestic industry ‘hit by doubts over Brexit and diesels’

      Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
      October 26 2017, 12:01am,
      The Times
      Domestic demand for British-built cars has fallen by more than 14 per cent in a year, renewing fears about the health of the automotive trade.

      The industry placed the blame for a fifth consecutive monthly fall in production firmly at the door of ministers, whom it accused of scaremongering over the future of diesel cars and for creating a consumer confidence crisis around Brexit.

      “Brexit is the greatest challenge of our times and yet we still don’t have any clarity on what our future relationship with our biggest trading partner will look like, nor detail of the transitional deal being sought,” Mike Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said.

      “Uncertainty regarding the national air-quality plans also didn’t help the domestic…

      Want to read more? have to pay uncle Rupert.

      Just watching C4 teatime news there with those tory gimps giving Teresa a lovely fluff job over mental health.

    259. manandboy says:

      In football, if you are 3-0 up, as a player and as a team, you relax and set about controlling the game without the need to burst a gut.
      If your 3-0 down, the opposite happens, you throw caution to the wind and your foul rate increases.
      Soit is with the BBC. They are currently losing the plot at 3-0 down.

    260. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      A well balanced report of the Audit report on NHS Scotland from STV news tonight.

    261. heedtracker says:

      Very clear message from EU to Scotland. Explains why they were totally mute in 2014 though.

    262. heedtracker says:

      Woohoo! Graun’s actually mentioned Scots gov. Its not much but for such a progressive and liberal bunch of OO supporters and britnat UKOK tubthuppers, its a massive step.

      The museum raised the money with major grants from the National Heritage Memorial Fund, the Art Fund and the Scottish government, but also through more than 1,500 small donations from members of the public who were captivated by the find.”

      Severin Carrell is on holiday.

    263. brewsed says:

      One of Nana’s links (and thanks as always) pointed to a page on It may be worthwhile keeping an eye on this web page. It appears apolitical, just pointing out the obvious – that Brexit is looking like being a toss-up between a car crash or going over a cliff.

    264. heedtracker says:

      It appears apolitical, just pointing out the obvious – that Brexit is looking like being a toss-up between a car crash or going over a cliff.”

      Imagine what Brexit England is going to do, ref2?

      Out of the EU, lost control of its Scotland region, Project Fear 2 is going to be one of the most hysterical campaigns ever in western politics.

      JK Trolling is going to have to give BetterTogether 2 a lot more than a million quid this time.

    265. Rock says:


      “Woohoo! Graun’s actually mentioned Scots gov. Its not much but for such a progressive and liberal bunch of OO supporters and britnat UKOK tubthuppers, its a massive step.”

      Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, do you post comments in The Guardian? Are they published?

    266. heedtracker says:

      Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, do you post comments in The Guardian? Are they published?

      Used to Rock. I used to subscribe to Graun for more years than I care to etc… But I got blocked about 3 months before Scots ref1. It was fun too, loads of tory britnat zoomers in England, much like you really, to flame. And as you know, its where I met my lovely Slovene girlfriend, with her rule Britannia British fetish too.

      The Graun doesn’t do Scotland now, its a total Scotland black out policy from those tories, except SNP bad, which is one way of stamping on and out Scottish democracy I guess. Pretend they dont exist but we own Scotland still, is hardly a healthy journo life, but it is the ongoing UKOK hackdom policy, as beeb Scotland gimp network fights hard and dirty to get the SNP out.

      Should add, if you do btl comment on Graun, the mods are or were patient and very fair for a while, say up to 6 months before Scots ref1. Away from Scots indy, Graun hacks would sometimes get in touch about a comment or two. It really is just Scotland not being in the UK, that makes them go totally roaster tory apeshit. Scotland belongs to England and no one but noone is going to take it from them.

    267. Lenny Hartley says:

      Heedtracker, so Jinker from a country with a smaller population than Glasgow doesn’t want other small nations to achieve their democratic right! When we achieve our Independence the EU can go and fuck itself. EFTA and Customs Union will be as much as Insupport.

    268. heedtracker says:

      Wales also plagued by Labour crooks. SLab are way out in front though.

    269. Derek Henry says:

      I posted under jimmurphysbrassneck on the Graun.

      Also got banned because of the Scottish threads. The neoliberal rag does not like the truth.

    270. Meg merrilees says:


      I, too, listened to FMQ’s today.

      Nicola Sturgeon is World Class and one of the finest politicians this country has ever produced

      We are SO lucky to have fearless Nicola leading our country through this particular period of turmoil. I would not want any of the other leaders to be FM just now – they are complete amateurs and make up for their lack of ability by the quantity of their insults.

      I was really saddened by FMQ’s – the opposition is a complete travesty of a respectful, adult debate.
      The standard of questioning and the verbal abuse which is directed at Nicola reached an all time low today.
      Ken Mc Intosh was particularly bad at controlling the debate and although he did intervene a few times, he is letting FAR too much disrespect and verbal insults through.

      I thought it was ludicrous to hear James Kelly complain that Nicola was waffling; Alex Rowley accuse the SNP of selling out the SNHS staff over pay when Labour in Wales has completely shafted the NHS staff there. Neil Finlay was out of order. What a sorry pile of idiots they all are.

      The Scottish NHS is the finest service in the UK;
      it is still available free at the point of use for everyone in this country.
      It has not been sold off to Richard Branson as so much of NHS England- just google Branson and the NHS for a for a real shock.
      and like many other aspects of life in Britain today, things are much better here than they are 400 miles south.

      Bring on Independence as soon as possible please and let us escape from all this nightmare.


      Visca CATALUNYA!

    271. Chick McGregor says:

      Its like a remake of ‘Thelma and Louise’.

      ‘Theresa and Liam’? with David Davis’s muffled voice coming from the boot as the car goes over the edge – “Don’t worry, everything is going fine. I expect to be out of here any moment now.”

    272. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 26 October, 2017 at 7:12 pm:

      “How do you spell conundrum without making it sound abusively racist.”
      Try, “Carborundum”, it is somewhat similar in meaning but is a bit less abrasive.

      I’ll get my coat!

    273. Robert Peffers says:

      @starlaw says: 26 October, 2017 at 7:21 pm:

      ” … I hope it has been recorded as it is a prime example of the behaviour of these so called journalists employed by the BBC, and their attitude towards their own country”.

      Thing is, Starlaw, in their mind it is not against, “Their country”.

      For, in their mind only, “Their country”, is the United Kingdom which factually is exactly what its title describes it as – a kingdom formed by a bipartite union of two, equally sovereign, kingdoms and one of them factually contains three distinct countries.

      However, nothing you or I can do will ever get them to believe other than the United Kingdom is a country and it includes all Britain.

      Hence they will speak of, “The British Government”, even although the Republic of Ireland has their own armed forces.

      They speak of the British Parliament even although there are several other British parliaments and none of them is the Parliament of Britain.

    274. Hamish100 says:

      If I turn up to A&E with a stubbed big toe I shouldn’t expect to be seen within 4 hours.

      I should be sent home and told not to be such a time waster or to visit a chemist.

      Too many A&E’s have such individuals from my observations over the years

      If I have a heart attack or a brain haemorrhage or a kiddy is obviously unwell I want them or I to be seen right away and the guy or guyess with the stubbed toe or has drunk too much can wait 5 hours or more.

      NHS Scotland overall is doing well. We will do even better when independent

    275. Ian Mackay says:

      Crossed the line? They can’t even see the line!

      I actually think that BBC GMS interview with Shona Robison today does more harm than good to the Unionist cause.

      It was car crash stuff from the interviewer who got evidently more and more riled as Robison seemed in complete control of her brief.

      The BBC can’t even pretend that it is impartial when the interviewer is so full of hateful bile towards the guest.

      No-one listening to that angry confused yoonatic interview could ever conclude that the BBC holds any realms of impartiality towards the Scottish Government.

      I suspect for many don’t knows, soft-Nos and Remainers listening to that interview has pushed them further on the road to Yes. The BBC is setting itself up as an enemy to Scotland’s interests. I urge all No voters – if they can stand it – to listen to that interview if they can.

    276. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers (10.00) –

      Is that you trying to rub people up the wrong way again?


    277. stewartb says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 9:53 pm

      I too watched FMQs in full today. Candidly, I was embarrassed for our Parliament and for our country at the tone adopted by too many opposition MSPs in front of international visitors.

      Holding the FM and her government to account is one thing – and necessary, but the sneering disrespect and insults on show today should have no place in our Parliament. It seems to be getting worse and is now going far beyond what would be directed to the PM in Westminster. (Of course, our FM as always responded with ‘class’!)

      In particular, Neil Finlay’s framing of his question on fire and rescue services crossed a line!

      And if their chosen approach really does work and gain support from Scotland’s electorate then I’m ashamed and disappointed in my fellow citizens.

      We deserve a better (and yes, a more effective) opposition in Parliament.

    278. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Heedtracker (8.33) –

      ‘…totally roaster tory apeshit…’

      Mister, you’ve coined some belter phrases over the years, but that, for me, is Top 5, maybe even Top 3.

      Copyright it now – you *know* it makes sense!


    279. Derek Henry says:

      Getting banned from the Graun was the best thing that could have happened to me anyways.

      Gives me more time to trade currencies. 2 years and counting with not one losing trade because they have no idea how anything works.

      The gold standard, fixed exchange rate loon balls say if you increase interest rates then the currency should get stronger and gold should fall and it will fight inflation.

      Of course like everything else they have it all back to front and upside down and inside out because they have no idea what they are talking about.

      So what does the actual data show since the FED started hiking in Dec 2015 ?

      A $281 an ounce increase in price in Gold. It did go all the way to £1360 an ounce but the herd thinks there’s going to be another rate hike and started selling it again. Fools.

      The actual $ index has dropped from 98 to 91 since the rate hikes began. Which is why the £ and the Euro have been rising over the same time period.

      However, the best place to capture what it does to the $ is the safe haven the USD/JPY. A 761 pip move downwards.

      US Inflation up from around 0.5% to over 2% with year over year increases the highest in 5 years.

      None of this is supposed to happen right ? Not according to the nut jobs.

      Well if you completely ignore the interest income channels it isn’t and you don’t beleive that the FED is the price setter and that price increases gets passed on. You don’t beleive rate hikes increase deposits. Which the nutjobs do.

      Rate adjustments are price setting. You raise rates, you raise prices and the dollar goes down. Very simply, your money buys less in a rising-price environment and it’s reflected pretty quickly in the foreign exchange value of the currency.

      They are price adjustments, pure and simple. Higher rates equate to higher prices and higher prices mean higher inflation. Inflation is not good for currency. Higher inflation is good for inflation-sensitive stuff like gold and commodities as well as some stocks.

      I also explained that currencies are like bonds, the only difference being they have zero maturity. Everyone seems to understand that when rates go up bond prices go down. It’s an inverse relationship. The discount to par reflects the implied yield and that discount increases as rates go up.

      Same with currencies. The spot price of a currency can be considered par. In a rising-rate environment the forward prices of a currency are lower. The market is literally pricing in a lower exchange rate. The degree of discount to par reflects the implied yield. Buy a forward and hold it over time until it converges to spot and you will earn the implied yield.

      Gold and commodities exhibit the opposite behavior. They don’t earn. They cost you to hold. There are interest payments and storage costs so the natural “curve” of gold and commodity markets has a positive slope. (Deferred contracts are priced higher than spot.)

      In a rising-rate environment, forward contracts for gold are priced higher. That reflects the “cost” of holding, which equals the interest rate plus storage, etc. Prices rise in a rising-rate environment and they fall in a falling rate environment.

      Of course this does not reflect short-term portfolio shifts based on traders’ beliefs. Many believe that lower rates are bullish for gold or bearish for a currency and vice-versa. As a result, they act on those beliefs and buy and sell accordingly. However, that’s not the true fundamental effect. That’s why so many people lost money buying gold when they believed rate cuts would be inflationary. Similarly, they wrongly sold the dollar. These mistakes are being repeated now, only in reverse.

      The Fed thinks it is fighting inflation when actually it is feeding it via these rate hikes. Any commodity curve will show this in reaction to a rising-rate environment. The curve will instantly reflect higher future costs.

      In addition, their policy and statements seem to reflect a lack of understanding of the government being a net payer of interest. They talk about being on guard against further fiscal stimulus when it is the Fed itself that is doing the stimulating. It is paying. That is income added, not removed. While some may find it harder to borrow because of the higher cost of credit, that is offset by the additional income earned by creditors and savers. There is net income received by the economy and that is by no means a brake on economic activity.

      If you want to raise money for wings. If and when the FED increases interest rates. Just buy gold and

      GBP/USD ?

      EUR/USD ?

      AUD/USD ?

      NZD/USD ?

      USD/CAD ?

      USD/JPY ?

      The complete opposite of what your TV’s and newspapers tell you what to do.

      The big boys just put stooges on your screens are just move the herd in the wrong direction to be annihilated while they clean up.

      Raising interest rates weaken a currency and fuel inflation.

    280. Robert Peffers says:

      @brewsed says: 26 October, 2017 at 8:11 pm:

      “It appears apolitical, just pointing out the obvious – that Brexit is looking like being a toss-up between a car crash or going over a cliff.”

      Strange that! I always thought of Brexit as a car crashing over a cliff.

    281. heedtracker says:

      These Islands aresholes get a lovely boost from Times. Dan Snow is famous for telly about wars and being posh but the rest are stars?

      Stars back group that will argue for united Britain
      Daniel Sanderson
      October 26 2017, 12:01am,
      The Times
      Amanda Foreman, the biographer, is part of These Islands, a group formed by Kevin Hague, a businessman and newspaper columnist

      So starry, I’m starstruck:D
      A group aiming to articulate a positive case for the UK has been backed by leading academics, business figures and broadcasters.

      These Islands, which was formally launched in Edinburgh last night, will attempt to provide a counterargument to a characterisation of England as a “country of knuckle-dragging racists” and the UK as an “evil force” on the world stage, the group’s founders said.

      It will start out by publishing academic papers and fact sheets but hopes to expand by launching social media campaigns and events that will reach a wider audience.

      Among those joining an advisory council are Dan Snow, the TV presenter, Tom Holland, the historian and author, Amanda Foreman, the biographer, and Louise Richardson, the former principal of St Andrews University who now…

      Want to read more

    282. Derek Henry says:

      I Put arrows in but they never come out.

      Any currrency pair with USD at the end will go up.

      Any currrency pair with USD at the start will go down.

      Don’t take my word for it just look at the data since the FED started hiking in 2015

      US inflation rate

      US $

      Not supposed to happen right 🙂

    283. gus1940 says:

      At today’s FMQs Ken McIntosh was useless – whether he is incapable of controlling the colonialist rabble or is just letting them behave abominably deliberately it is time he was replaced.

    284. geeo says:

      Again…stunned to find out Derek Henry, the only person who knows how money works, is not running global finances…!!

      Listen kid, we all know the markets are there to make the rich even richer. Hardly a newsflash.

    285. Sinky says:

      Scottish politics in numbers.

      BBC Question Time on 2nd November is from Kilmarnock.

      Not once has there been a majority of panellists in favour of Independence whilst all programmes from Scotland have a majority of Unionists and normally no SNP representative when broadcast from England yet ignorant Labour and Tory reps are allowed to slag off Scotland and SNP.

      Just like Theresa May didn’t know that her government is responsible for broadband but happy to mislead parliament.

    286. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says: 26 October, 2017 at 10:15 pm:

      “@Robert Peffers (10.00) –
      Is that you trying to rub people up the wrong way again?”

      No! No! No! Ian, I was trying not to be too rough on them.

    287. boris says:

      BBC reporting of the Audit report on the SNHS was disgraceful but not unexpected. What is galling is the ever increasing incidences of blatant bias from London controlled BBC Scotland. It really is time to get the gloves off and pursue the matter of “free airways” through the EU. Scotland is the only self governing area of the EU that does not exercise some form of control over the media content broadcast to its public.

    288. Fred says:

      The past while I spoke to three folk who had surgery in a private Glasgow hospital & due to complications ended up in the Royal Infirmary. No private casualty facility so the NHS sorts out the mess. In two of the cases the bill was paid by their employer & the third paid for his own surgery. Private hospitals parasitize the NHS using NHS trained staff & facilities. Are they registered as charities I wonder.

    289. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –


      As I should have surmised, you were just trying to whet appetites!


    290. uno mas says:

      Baby Box a bad idea, did I hear you say?

      You bet!

      So bad that UNICEF have just made up 200 of them and sent them out to Cuba for the infants worst affected by Hurican Irma.

      What is it that´s the sincerest form of flatery again??

    291. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers { Is that you trying to rub people up the wrong way again?” } Uase ah Pumice stane Robert lol

    292. Phronesis says:

      It’s not a surprise in this financial climate that SNHS has its challenges but it remains a nationalised health service – a commitment to an ideological principle. If anything should be exercising politicians’ minds it is the scandal of NHS England being dismantled piece by piece over several decades ‘a 2 tier health service’ ;

      ‘In particular, the Royal Marsden stated that over the last 5 years the number of private patients using their facilities has increased by 31%, and private healthcare now represents nearly a third of the trust’s income. Furthermore, the trust admitted that NHS patients are sometimes placed in what are now ‘private’ beds due to a shortage of NHS beds.
      There is a real risk that this two tier system being created inside the NHS will lead to degradation of care as trusts prioritise paying clients above those who cannot afford insurance. As Nye Bevan put it, “a two-standard health service is merely the old British Poor Law system over again. The essence of a satisfactory health service is that the rich and the poor are treated alike, that poverty is not a disability, and wealth is not advantaged’

      ‘With more than two-thirds of trusts in deficit in 2015-16 and an increasing number of clinical commissioning groups unable to keep their spending within budget, we repeat our view that financial problems are endemic and this is not sustainable. It is fair to say aggressive efficiency targets have helped to swell the ranks of trusts in deficit over the last few years. The Department, NHS England and NHS Improvement have put considerable effort and funding toward stabilising the system, but have a way to go to demonstrate that they have balanced resources and achieved stability as a result of this effort. Therefore, value for money from these collective actions has not yet been demonstrated.”
      Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 22 November 2016

      The financial performance of NHS bodies worsened considerably in 2015-16 and this trend is not sustainable, according to the National Audit Office.
      In 2015-16, NHS commissioners, NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts reported a combined deficit of £1.85 billion, a greater than three-fold in crease in the deficit position of £574 million reported in 2014-15. Provider trusts’ overall deficit grew by 185% to £2.45 billion, up from £859 million in 2014-15, against total income of £75.97 billion. In addition, two-thirds of NHS trusts (65%) and NHS foundation trusts (66%) reported deficits in 2015-16, up from 44% of NHS trusts and 51% of NHS foundation trusts in the previous financial year. The number of clinical commissioning groups reporting cumulative deficits was 32 in 2015-16, up from 19 in both 2014-15 and 2013-14.
      According to the NAO, the NHS entered the current financial year from a worse than expected starting point. This year’s plans were based on trusts ending 2015-16 with a combined deficit of £1.8 billion. The fact that trusts ended the year with an even larger deficit means that they will, overall, need to make more savings than planned to reach the intended starting position. Many of the savings made by NHS England in 2015-16 were one-off in nature’

      Health provision is one aspect of the welfare state -all elements are inter-related and complement each others’ strengths- housing, pensions, education etc. There is also the scandal of the ‘core homeless’-have we heard outrage about that? In 2017 the reality of ‘reform’ is the working poor and homeless children- as we lurch ever nearer to an unforgivable dereliction of children’s rights. From the normalisation of destitution, core homelessness, enduring poverty and youth marginalisation to racist ideology dressed up as acceptable social policy- these are all markers of this WM government and the political set up of the disunited kingdom. All are valid reasons for Scotland to disconnect from such toxic policies,imagine and vote for its own future on its own terms.

      ‘Many of these households are single adults of working age, but there is a significant number of families and children within some of these groups. We estimate that core homelessness contains 57,000 ‘family’ households (couples or lone parents) containing 82,000 adults and 50,000 children, so that the core homeless ‘population’ is 236,000…
      Looking at England, Scotland and Wales there is a remarkable degree of difference between the future scale and shape of core homelessness in the three countries:

      England shows an initial pause followed by an accelerating increase, which is most dramatic at the end of the forecast period.
      Wales shows a sharper initial increase, with a pause after 2021, then a further medium rate of increase.
      Scotland by contrast shows an initial downward trajectory until 2016, then a gradual increase, to the end of the period.

      The most important driver of homelessness in all its forms is poverty, which features strongly in all of the statistical models. Other drivers include, availability and affordability of accommodation, the extent to which prevention measures are used and the demographics of people experiencing homelessness.
      Using a series of ‘what if’ scenarios the model has shown is that cessation of welfare cuts and focused prevention activity can make an impact on levels of core homelessness but this is limited if not accompanied by investment in affordable and accessible housing supply’

    293. geeo says:

      QT so far…

      Panel being surprisingly reasoned thus far, audience a bunch of utterly vile zoomers.

    294. Artyhetty says:

      ‘These Islands’ eh. They do know that most of the UK is just one island don’t they.

      Scotland has many islands, but the mainland is sadly geographically stitched to, ‘we love you don’t leave us’ England. So they launched their ‘better together’ #2 in Edinburgh, giving it a new name and are planning ‘social media campaigns’ which sounds like code for propaganda with knobs on. So they are not managing to fool enough people because so many have ditched the bbc and daily rags propaganda.

      They can’t sew back together the frayed union with a few £s or via social media. As for the airhead celebs getting in on the act, must be needing to boost their public profile and wage packets.
      No thanks, get a life guys.

    295. geeo says:

      Quality Alex Salmond…

      “Let me put it this way…the BBC were less bias during the EU referendum, than they were during the Scottish referendum”….

      Followed by few seconds of awkward silence and Dimbleby looking flustered.

    296. Effijy says:

      BBC attack on the best performing NHS in the UK, the SNP one here in Scotland, has taken this petition on to be just 22 signatures away from 93,000.

    297. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, definition of irony and total lack of self-awareness.

    298. Ken500 says:

      Dan Snow great, great? grandson of Lloyd George. Balfour Declaration and Partition of Ireland. Two of the worst decisions ever made. Bloodbaths. Killing and maiming millions. Ruining the world economy. Not democratic.

      Dan Snow married to the sister of the richest man in the UK. Duke of Westminster. Land in Scotland?

      BBC Nepotism and privilege. Sticks his nose in. Interfering. Mind his own business.

    299. Derek Henry says:

      @ geeo

      Stunned that every reply to me you make is NASTY!

      You should of told us all that raising interest rates makes the £ weaker and doesn’t fight inflation.

      Not Like this Mob…

      Only, they have more letters after their name than a Welsh railway station.

      Is Geeo your real name or something you just hide behind while whispering abuse?

    300. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah, I get it, Average must have been talking about her:

    301. Petra says:

      @ Geeo at 11:16pm …….. “Quality Alex Salmond on QT” .. (the programme that the Scots pay for).

      Ha, ha, ha. Good one Geeo. That’s more like it. Fire the “BBC bias” term in at every turn, such as in relation to our NHS .. “not more BBC biased reports / statistics, surely?”

      Someone came out with that last week on the politics show with Jo Coburn. Said that BBC bias had influenced the Brexit result. Coburn was absolutely gobsmacked and stuttered that they had been fair to both sides. Aye right!

      Time to turn the tables on them.

    302. Petra says:

      @ Brewsed at 8:11pm …… “Sir Ivan Rodgers.”

      Interesting report Brewsed with Ivan Rodgers outlining some of the problems that’ll be encountered with Brexit, such as lack of border inspection posts on the other side of the Channel in France, Belgium and the Netherlands resulting in rotten meat, fish products and so on.

      What I’m trying to figure out is if we remain in the EU what’s going to happen to our trucks when they reach Kent? Will they be blocked in the ‘queue’ or waved through? If the latter that’ll create real bad feeling between England and Scotland.

      What a mess.

    303. PJM says:

      These Islands’ loser Tom Holland’s old school, like many private schools, boasts many incredible facilities. What makes it a little more unusual is that it even boasts a pitch made from ASTROTURF.
      Funny that…

    304. Chick McGregor says:

      Looks like Brent crude is going to break the 60$ ceiling even sooner than expected, now within a dollar.

      Barclays could be heading for another bail out.

      Not needing any more excuse than that to repeat, Brown and Darling’s success in creating the ‘Scottish banks BAD!’ agitprop which was a remarkable achievement in tractor selling.

      Barclays, who were allowed, by Butch Cassiday and the Sundance Kid to be absented from the ‘Gunfight at the UK Corral’ clandestinely received a bigger bail out than HBOS and RBS combined.

      As was revealed later when the information was forced out of the Fed.

      Barclays got $863 billion,
      RBS got $181 billion
      HBOS got $446 billion

      from the Fed + Barclays also clandestinely borrowed from the Middle East as well.

    305. cearc says:


      I think you’ll find that the direct ferry route will become viable very quickly.

    306. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 00:39,

      “Mess” is an understatement.

      Scots lorries would be customs-sealed before entry to England, and should thus be able to transit without further detailed checking. That would be welcome on both sides, since it would ease the pressure all round.

      But even with transit “streamlining”, it’s hard to see how they could avoid being caught up in the extreme traffic guddle on the English south coast.

      However they could bypass all that by taking the Hull-Zeebrugge route instead, I imagine.

      It would probably also give an immense boost to the Rosyth-Zeebrugge freight ferry service. Which is probably the kind of independent link we should be concentrating on after indy anyway.

      Maybe get a Scotland-Denmark/Germany route opened as well.

    307. yesindyref2 says:


      I think the container hub plan as revised by Babcock has achieved partial planning permission. From their website:

      “A Harbour Revision Order has been granted for a potential future container terminal and Babcock is currently progressing a Marine Licence application for associated dredging in the Firth of Forth. “

    308. Petra says:

      @ Cearc and R J S…….

      It’s clear that we’ll have to get a move on in relation to exporting more goods from our shores, but you wonder how long that will take? And isn’t Rosyth curtailed in some way by some company or another linked to Lord Smith of Kelvin? … (Smith Commission).


      @ Chic ….. “RBS….”

      They’ll stop at nothing Chic when it comes to attempting to undermine Scotland. Seemingly when it all came out they then tried to say that the difference was that Barclays paid every penny back. Did they?

      Brent crude: I don’t know much about oil but I came across an interesting snippet in the National when reading one of Alex Russell’s articles this week. I’ve unfortunately given my newspapers away so can’t give a direct quote. He said something along the lines of Brent crude being superior to ALL other crude oils and being in great demand. Maybe if someone has held onto their newspaper or can access the National online they’ll post the data on here. In Monday’s newspaper I reckon.

    309. geeo says:

      @derek henry.

      You ooze a patronising and condescending attitude in every post.

      You are right and EVERYONE else is wrong, according to you.

      Makes you look a complete dick.

    310. geeo says:

      Ot…great observational humour from Steve Hughes on telly now.

      “So, you are having a war on terror huh”?


      “So what does war create”?


    311. geeo says:

      Ot…great observational humour from Steve Hughes on telly now.

      “So, you are having a war on terror huh”?


      “So what does war create”?


      “Exactly, so you are having a war against the consequence of the actions you are involved in”?

      (“Yeah…but…ours is good terror diet terror…like..can’t believe its not terror”)

      Brilliant !

    312. Petra says:

      @ yesindyref2 …… “Babcock Marine.”

      Thanks for that yesindyref2. Really interesting and I’ll have to check out what Lord Smith had to do with Rosyth?

      Looks as though things are moving at Greenock too with the Greenock, Liverpool to Rotterdam freight line. It’s too late for me to dig it out now but seemingly millions have been spent upgrading and buying some massive offshore / onshore container crane. It’ll be great to see the day when we don’t have to export anything (or very little) via England.

    313. Cactus says:

      Compare Shona’s interview! and the Question Time on the TV…

      Quite a contrast…

      Don’t ye think?

    314. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I’ll have to look up Greenock, see what’s going on!

      The Babcock container plan goes back to 2010 or earlier, part of the SNP Scot Gov’s National Planning Framework 2 in 2009. I found it while looking up Babcock for future defence plans last month. The (part reclaimed) area was destined for refurbing “Trident submarines” but that never happened.

    315. Cactus says:

      ps, the beautiful Shona, lovely lady you.

      Everytime ah see ye on FMQ’s

      You got pretty eyes girl.

      Mwah x

    316. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah, doubling of capacity at Greenock to use Liverpool’s deepwater hub. Good, but not yet good enough! Both Greenock and Hunterston are Peel Ports, here’s an older brief plan for Hunterston to have a deepwater hub, disappeared into the deep blue yonder for some reason. I suspect with Independence we’d have to do something about Peel, split up into rUK and Scotland would be good enough. Still, it’s good for Greenock, and a new cruise liner bert would be good too, they get a load of coach tours going off from there, and the liners themselves going on elsewhere all round Scotland.

    317. Meg merrilees says:

      just reading on BBC N Ireland website that the Court Case against the tories accusing them of bribing the DUP has failed- what a surprise.

      In a written submission to the court, James Eadie QC for the government argued that the criminal law of bribery does not apply to a confidence and supply agreement between political parties.
      “The allegation that the agreement entails public expenditure which is unlawful is misconceived because the expenditure contemplated by the agreement will have appropriate parliamentary authorisation,”

      My ‘flabber’ would have been ‘gasted’ if the truth had been upheld.

    318. Cactus says:

      Scottish politics in numbers.. all sounds like some kinda unionist SPIN to me.

      “Lick it up!”

      Eat it up.



    319. yesindyref2 says:

      MMT and currency are difficult things to get a hold of, and when anyone writes about difficult things, specially if it’s around the edges, it’s difficult to keep it from being either too jargon laden, or arrogant, and I know myself sometimes I just give up and post it anyway, if people want to read it good, otherwise they can just skip past. But Richard Murphy is talking a load of MMT these days. Here’s my jargon example!

      There’s been talk about the MOD selling off the 2 LPDs to Chile, and the utility of LPDs and LPHs, but I think the UK should be looking more at LDAs with a GP role, and to keep the 2 LPDs until a good GP design is ready for the LDAs. Scotland should also look at at least 1 GP LDA for the SDF and the SM.

      [1] LPD – Landing Platform Dock
      [2[ LPH – Landing Platform Helicopter
      [3] LDA – Large Deck Amphibious, and I’m not even sure if that’s an actual term!
      [4] GP – General Purpose, not usually used on its own i.e. more as GPFF
      [5] FF – Frigate!
      [6] SDF – Scottish Defence Force.
      [7] SM – no, it’s not that. It’s Scottish Marines.

      Jeez, I’m off to my scratcher.

    320. geeo says:

      ‘We’re the f***ing law here’: Rowdy off-duty Spanish cops cause ruckus in Barcelona bar

      Hearts and minds done wrong by Madrid police!
      No wonder the tories want out the EU…

      Tory tax loophole for big business under investigation by EU

    321. Cactus says:

      SO “just” 93.97 go 4 per cent… out of 100 per cent say.. really?

      That’s pretty cool.. don’t ye think! Go Scotland!

      That means like more than nine out of ten fully-able-bodied Scots within our bonnie country of Scotland. We are US.

      Both auld and new currency is a cool thing.


      “Dive underwater with faith”


      She rocks in on me PLAYlist, on a 4:14 above.

      What else… nod yer head… listen to Dio’s words of wisdom.

      Let’s getaway frae this this UK!

      A cheers to ye wos boss.

      It’s Friday.

      It’s 3:17.

    322. Cactus says:

      Can you see and hear the RAINBOW!

      SO bonnie braw.

      1 shy of.

    323. William Wallace says:

      fuck it!

    324. Cactus says:

      Calling out to Scotland.

      Up tae William Wallace?

      Son of Scotland ye.

    325. Cactus says:

      Haul Wallace ~

      Talkin’ aboot.


    326. Cactus says:

      A wee hauf bro..?

      Ahm pourin’.

      Pint WW 😉

    327. William Wallace says:

      We’ll be on the beach on the 11th when the cosy club are done.

      What’s the fkin point in haein a perty if sma axe is no coming?

      When yiz are ah done in Jolly’s – we’ll be on the beach fir the night. Select few only. Cosy club can get tae fuck. 😉

    328. William Wallace says:

      Eh’ll share a drink wi you Cactus

      You will find us on the beach iy.

      Ehm no coming.

      Fuck it!

    329. Cactus says:

      Ah know know it’s no the same, it’s fuckin’ shit some of the cards life deals to you.

      Imagine you were reborn 10 years fae now.

    330. William Wallace says:

      When abody is done in Jolly’s Cactus.

      We are having a party on the beach. You are welcome to come and join us. Just look for the flames that burn fir the mighty sma.

      Come oot o Jolly’s and head south and look tae the north east and you will see a fire burning.

      Love and respect.


    331. Cactus says:

      iy ye ur William Wallace ~

      iy ye ur Sco bro.

      See ye!

    332. Cactus says:

      Ah default to beach bro, everytime and it ain’t just le wine.

      See ye on the beach William.

      Who is gonna start the fire?

      Ah’ll be right in it.

      Cool as fuck.



    333. Cactus says:





    334. William Wallace says:


      Us brother.

      See ya soon. 😉

    335. Cactus says:

      By ra way…

      Ma star sign is ARIES…

      Can ye TELL!

      “The radio played a forgotten song”

      04:44hrs and counting…

      Scotland thru the night.

    336. Cactus says:

      Ah took ah fine look at ma Aries.

      Same as U:

      What shores?





    337. Cactus says:

      Long Live Rock n Roll.

      Let It Live!

      4 days.

    338. Cactus says:

      How can some one person like you have SO much FUN from a website.

      Ah know we need to see it as serious.

      But hey yous.

      Till then.


    339. yesindyref2 says:

      Annoying out of context questions when you just don’t want to debate something any more:

      1. What’s the difference?
      2. What don’t you mean?
      3. Where does it say that?
      4. Why isn’t that true?
      5. Which one?

    340. Cactus says:

      Option 6 please 🙂

    341. Cactus says:


      “…Aries is capable of independence. This quality may encourage others to emulate – but Aries is unlikely to pause for supporters. When Aries is found in a chart, there is enthusiasm and decisiveness”

      6. What doesn’t you mean?

      I can dig it.

      It’s clickity click..

    342. Cactus says:

      The overhead decor is all up and the central feature lighting is back on, on Glasgow’s Freedom Square. See them two blinding lights on yer City Chambers cam gov… gonnae get a filter put over em or summin’ mate. I cannae see ma square.

      See for yourself Glasgow, see for yourself Scotland:

      Welcome HOME Glasgow..

      Go get em Friday.

    343. Cactus says:

      Notice how me previous link to our Square at this time in the mornin’, showed her in black n white vision only.

      With light… we have colour.

      Freedom Square.


    344. Macart says:

      Cactus and Nana back to back…

      We’re bein’ spoiled this morning. Gotta be Friday. 🙂

    345. Hamish100 says:

      Cactus, boring as f………
      Insomniac? Lives outwith Scotland? Drunk?

      Spoiler alert….. sorry thick as mince alert!

      Rock on… zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

      Please Rev new posting required

    346. manandboy says:

      Just before we go, there does appear to be a problem with arithmetic in the UK as everything that the Tories have or have not done since the EU referendum simply doesn’t add up. Yet that’s OK?

      There’s a saying –
      ‘Failing to prepare, is preparing to fail’.

    347. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 27 October, 2017 at 12:16 am:

      “Ah, I get it, Average must have been talking about her:”

      Let’s be realistic, yesindyref2. If Kevin, “Average”, and such as Jon Snow, is all they have to offer, and their laughable promotion by the BBC as experts suggest it is all they have to offer. Then the long, long road to Scottish independence has just been resurfaced.

      Any half decent indy supporter can expose such utter drivel as those kinds of experts propound in seconds.

      I wonder – does Kevin also do an own brand, “Kevin Kibble”, in his pet food line?

    348. Ghillie says:

      Thank you Nana =)

      @ 7.48 am

      EU votes on North Sea fishing regs as UK backs down on taking back control…


      Trying so so hard not to say the magic words.

    349. Ghillie says:

      Hammish 100 @ 8.43 am

      What exactly is it you are trying to say wee lamb?

    350. Ken500 says:

      The bankrupt dog poo salesman is trying to make money telling lies about Scotland/UK. A hypocritical, pathetic compulsive liar. Never read a book. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Promoted above their station, intellect and capabilities

    351. Liz g says:

      Hamish 100 @ 8.43
      Aye Hamish , just like Ghillr I’m wondering as well!
      Were ye trying tae say boring as fuck?
      If not fuck then what word DID ye try to impart
      With f………
      Enquiring mind’s need tae know??

    352. Chick McGregor says:

      “They’ll stop at nothing Chic when it comes to attempting to undermine Scotland. Seemingly when it all came out they then tried to say that the difference was that Barclays paid every penny back. Did they?”

      Yes they did, but RBS and HBOS have also paid back their bail out loans years ago. But because RBS and HBOS were to a greater extent from the British taxpayer they had a higher interest charge to repay.

      Also, forgot to mention the clandestine loan Barclays got from the BoE at the time as well as those from the Fed and the ME.

    353. Liz g says:

      Ghillie @ 9.19
      Oops sorry about your name there, @ 10.13 don’t know what happened.
      Mibbi devine intervention.. LoL…

    354. Chick McGregor says:

      Also worth reminding folk that HBOS asset split was 2/3Halifax, 1/3BoS. The operating board was consolidated to Halifax with one token Scot. At the time of ‘merger’ the Scottish press called it a takeover and bemoaned the loss of Scotland’s oldest bank.

      Of course, precedent elsewhere had already been established that HQ location was irrelevant to national liability anyway, each country served being expected to bail out on a business done in their territory basis.

    355. Capella says:

      BBC radio presenters this morning refer to the FA (meaning the English Football Association) and the National Trust (meaning the National Trust for England).
      If there is a SFA and a NTS then there can’t be a single “National” Trust.
      You’d think the BC would train them to speak proper.

    356. Bill McLean says:

      O/T Sorry. Just wanted to express our thanks and appreciation to the “Independence Rocks” team who put on a fabulous night of music at the Glen Pavilion, Dunfermline, last night. The performers, and the introduction by Peter A. Bell, were first class and highlighted just what talent we have in our wee country. Thanks to Julian, Jenny, Kate and Heather and of course Dennis and Lucian Marshall whose idea the evening was.

    357. Tackety Beets says:

      Manandboy @ 9.04

      ” One minutes Planning can save hours in execution”

    358. gus1940 says:

      Please Stu – do something about the drunken rubbish excreted over the Comments section every night.

      I am totally fed up having to scroll through the rubbish to get to those who talk sense.

    359. galamcennalath says:

      Nicola getting on with the day job …..

      Good line to take. The SG mustn’t be seen as obstructive, not if NO voters are to be brought on side when it matters.

    360. yesindyref2 says:

      So the PSOE have removed the amendment that allowed the A155 to be stopped if Catalonia calls elections, and Rajoy got applauded in Madrid as he put the motion forward for debate. Meanwhile in Barcelona, the pro-Indy parties have put forward their motion to declare a republic and call for negotiations.

      But apparently there can be more talks tomorrow (BBC).

    361. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 27 October, 2017 at 11:26 am:

      “BBC radio presenters this morning refer to the FA (meaning the English Football Association) and the National Trust (meaning the National Trust for England).

      The Westminster establishment have played that game for centuries, Capella.

      Historically the modern game of football was invented in Scotland and the earliest known records of a football club is of an Edinburgh football club from the Stockbridge area of the city. They played their matches on a pitch in the Meadows.

      That, though, was before the game really became properly organised. The first recorded rules of the game were drawn up by Queens Park FC and it was these rules that were adopted by the English Football Association to become the rules now used Worldwide.

      If you study the game’s history it will explode many other myths. The Auld Firm are not the original city rivals and a look at their dates of establishment shows that Hearts preceded the Glasgow rivals. In fact the prime movers in spreading the game were the Hibs. Who in turn were assisted to become established by Hearts.

      It was an RC lay brother who started up Hibs FC and the Scottish Football organisations of the time officially opposed Hibernian FC’s membership on the grounds that they, (the then Scottish football authority were there to run Scottish Football and they wanted nothing to do with an Irish Team.

      HIBs FC was started by St Patrick’s Church to help keep the young Irish immigrants of Edinburgh and Leith out of trouble. It was Hearts FC that fought for Hibs FC’s inclusion in Scottish Football.

      Then it was Hibs FC that sponsored an Irish Roman Catholic Team in Glasgow who were originally going to be named, “Glasgow Hibernian”, but ended up as Glasgow Celtic. Hibs FC, by the way, also sponsored other Scottish Teams including Dundee who played their very first match wearing the traditional Hibs FC strip donated to them by Hibs.

      Then came the time of, “The Scottish Professors”. These were Scottish Footballers who were signed up as, “Professionals”, by English clubs and they became professionals mainly because the Scottish Association remained amateur and followed the rules of the game as laid down by Queen’s Park FC who remain amateurs to this day.

      The English game had been the big kick up the pitch and everyone run after it while the Scottish Game involved passing the ball and, “dribbling”, by the forwards to elude the attention of defenders.

      The Scottish Professors were hired to teach the English how to play football and if you study the English Club badges and shields you will find many contain Lions Rampant. Many English Clubs were started by Scots. A prime example being Chelsea FC :-

      The English Football Association used the Queen’s Park Rules and forever after claimed to be the originators of the modern game of football.

    362. geeo says:

      As things crystalize in Spain, Sky news are having a news blackout on the issue, going with stories of pervy MP’s.

      We all know nothing got done about WM paedophiles, so this will be ignored and swept under the carpet.

      Catalonia is the biggest news story out there today, not that you would think so by uk news coverage.

    363. yesindyref2 says:

      Described as brinkmanship by the BBC or Independent I forget which, and so far it is, and it’s not certain if either motion will be voted on today. Troubling times.

    364. ScottieDog says:

      Regarding mmt it’s pretty hard to frame since the population over the past 40 years have hadd the idea about yhe govt having ‘balance it’s books’ rammed down their throat by a mainstream media which is wholly owned by the city of london.

      I’ve been talking to snp branches for the past 18 months about banks money and the macroeconomy and prefer to take a more gradual and simplified approach. There simply isn’t time to put all the info across.

      For me it’s best to get folk investigating things themselves having planted the seed first.

      I try to think how I would talk about mmt and macroeconomics to someone in an elevator. I only have 30 seconds. How do I push an idea into their mind that wI’ll leave a mark and motivate them to take action and make time in their busy lives to explore the subject more.

      For example I might say,
      “You see that national debt we have. Did you know the bank of england owns one quarter of it. To do that all they had to do was mark up the banks computer to create the money to buy it”

      Derek is being verbose. I’ve tried the same but most people after a minute or so just switch off.

      Make no mistake if we get people understanding what money and how it works, persuading people to vote YES becomes much easier. The beauty of it is that you don’t even have to talk about independence when talking about the economy so people’s guards are down.

    365. Wullie B says:

      For those looking for news on Catalonia Twitter has a Pro Indy Catalonian journalist called Josep Goded, he is giving up to date info

    366. Wullie B says:

      Take a look at Josep Goded (@josepgoded):

    367. yesindyref2 says:

      The FT has it fairly from what I’ve been reading, the most accurate report of what happened. Which isn’t surprising, since the FT’s readership is interested in money not politics, it was even accurate during our Indy Ref at times.

      For a moment on Thursday afternoon it looked like Carles Puigdemont, the Catalan president, was going to put together a plan to hold off both the declaration of independence and the implementation of direct rule.

      He floated the idea that Catalonia could call snap regional elections instead, potentially defusing the situation. But hardliners in his own camp were up in arms, while Madrid also refused to countenance the plan, and the move fell apart.

      Also before that confirms the two motions put forward.

    368. yesindyref2 says:

      Catalans for YES just now using google translate

      “IMPORTANT to follow @ enpeudepau and @CridaDemocracia, and follow only official and confirmed information!”

      which makes sense.

    369. One_Scot says:

      I think that might be it!

    370. Tinto Chiel says:

      Robert P re. oldest Scottish clubs: shock! horror!:

      Mind you, it is on a BBC webpage, so probs utter Carmichael.

      Pravdasound4 still going on about Catalan “separatists”, unlike Brexit-voting Tory “patriots”.

      In the name o’ the wee man!

    371. Macart says:


      Not entirely sure what Rajoy thinks he’s achieving by this point dads. Spain is rapidly becoming a pariah state with these actions.

      His hardline approach has won him precisely what? Upholding the rule of the Spanish constitution and rule of Spanish law? Well, yes. Ensuring the integrity of the Spanish state and borders… only in the short term, but again, yes. The growing enmity of a people within those borders, embarrassing Spain’s state and people internationally and bringing Spain’s democratic credentials into disrepute almost certainly.

      There is no long term win here for Spain, only a short term gratification for specific political dogma. This is not going to end well.

    372. geeo says:


      I have no issue with the message, other than the crushingly boring delivery and the pompous arsery of the author.

      You probably made more sense to people in your small elevator talk example, than Derek makes in his over long pompous drone.

      As you say, and as the Rev has been saying for years now, people will simply stop reading overly long articles and the message is lost.
      Most people i know do not appreciate being spoken down to either. If they want that, they can listen to unionist politicians on any given day with a ‘Y’ in it.

    373. CameronB Brodie says:

      I do my best to avoid colonial TV but it sounds as if the BBC are at it again. I’m pretty sure I’ve already mentioned the process of social exclusion and marginalisation. Viewed through the lens of social exclusion, Scotland’s democratic deficit can be seen for what it establishes; Scotland’s marginalisation within the British system of pluralistic democracy. Marginalised communities do not prosper, the ‘One Nation’ ideology harms Scotland’s public health!

      Social exclusion: old problem, new name
      For Social Exclusion read Deviance and Marginality

      Of course, one can define ‘social exclusion’ in terms of “child poverty…adverse trends in reading skills, unmanageable and aggressive behaviour, drug misuse, unemployment, teenage pregnancy, homelessness, crime and suicide,” [2]; or as “differences in income, social class, education, ethnicity and gender,” [3]; or even as “barefoot children,”[4]. Sadly, these people are “excluded from general prosperity,” [2], yet, once again we encounter something of a yawning gulf of insight into the problem as a social issue, let alone as an essential feature of all societies. “A marginal person is…one who does not belong…the marginal man…[dwells] at the margin of two cultures and two societies…[and possesses] a marginal mentality…[with its] unresolved identity crises…” [5]. BMJ articles on this issue are predictably superficial and simplistic.

      Defining deviance: four steps in constructing a threat to security
      In matters of national security, who is deviant and poses a threat to our safety depends on the claims made by those in positions of power and the sociopolitical climate. The news media are crucial in this process. Often, a particular social problem goes through four stages of claims-making before it is successfully constructed as a “legitimate” problem that requires punitive responses….

      Social Exclusion
      Meaning, measurement and experience and links to health inequalities
      A review of literature

      ‘In symbolic politics, the power to name a social problem has vast implications for the policies considered suitable to address it… the discourse of exclusion may serve as a window through which to view political cultures’ (Silver, 1994).

    374. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t know. The problem is that internationally it’s seen as an illegal referendum, and Spain upholding the rule of law. I got this off the Catalans for Yes feed last night:

      and though it does run the story reasonably, it calls Puigdemont “Catalonia’s separatist leader” rather than “President”, and the comments below the line are a joy to behold – not. So international perception might not be what we’d expect it to be.

      Can’t remember, but I’ve a feeling the NYT was OK about Indy Ref 1, and the WP not so, or was it the other way around?

    375. Sarah says:

      YesIndyref at 12.40: see Craig Murray’s latest which includes his view on the NY Times. My husband posted a pro-Catalonia piece on NYT below the line last night – the majority of BTL comments are worryingly anti-Catalonia.

    376. Juteman says:

      Yet again Mr Peffers shows his ignorance of Dundee football.
      It was Dundee United that were connected to Hibs, not Dundee FC.

    377. Macart says:


      Not entirely surprised, though it seems others pay more attention.

    378. yesindyref2 says:

      This MMT thing seems to be starting to take off in the Scottish psyche, and yet you have been posting it in the Herald for a long time, plenty of upvotes, speically when you were first in thread, but proably few actually reading it or understanding it including sad to say my good (or bad) self.

      But the irony is that even though you’ve been posting links to bilboeconomics, only a few would have looked. Yet with Derek Henry getting abused, while using the same blog to link to, I certainly checked it out then, and found out more. Yet your approach doesn’t raise hackles while DH’s does it seems (not with me).

      There’s a similar thing though with Mitchell who’s been doing it for years, and Murphy who seems to be a latecomer. But Murphy got noticed because of calling GERS CRAp, and hence MMT is moving around faster in the SNP circles.

      The point being that it takes all sorts and we’re on the same side, we do what we can in our own way, and the only thing that matters is Indy, making a success of it, but also being able to convince people that it will be a success.

      Seems to me that MMT is a very valuable tool for this, so personally I wouldn’t care if one of its proponents turned out to be Count Duckula, as long as the good Count helped to spread the message!

    379. David P says:

      Slightly O/T, but following on from: @yesindyref2 says: 27 October, 2017 at 12:16 am:

      “Ah, I get it, Average must have been talking about her:”

      Stand out line in Ms SW’s message:
      “London was fabulous…Sorry to be missing Edinburgh”.

      Am I the only one who finds it faintly amusing that Ms SW was able to turn up for the London show, but could only apologise for missing the Edinburgh show?

      How many other “ardent unionists” failed to turn up for the “provincial” launch? Plenty, I’ll wager, on the basis that their thought process is, “we like owning the colonies, but good God, we wouldn’t want to actually go there”…

      “These Islands”, just as “Scotland in Union” before it, is just another panic-stricken gesture attempting to delay the inevitable end of the Empire.

    380. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I posted there too, two postings (dads), with a couple more later replies waiting for the US to wake up!

    381. sarah says:

      @Yesindyref: “waiting for the US to wake up.” Mmmm – could be waiting some time…

    382. David Caledonia says:

      Hey Stuart, i am not on twitter cause i am not a twit ( lol )
      But i think its time to curtail all those windbags, who seem to think we need to be reminded about everything we have read over the years, i would say 3 hundred characters where sufficient for anyone…… tatty bye lol

    383. Dr Jim says:

      How to create a Unionist:

      One minute you’re a respected president of a country/region doing the will of your voters the next minute you’re a Separatist leader threatening the very fabric of democracy

      Nicola Sturgeon used to be the First Minister of Scotland till she became the most dangerous woman in Britain

      And who decides how to rename and re-title people at will?
      The media do, but then you ask why do they do it? who told them to do it? and for what purpose?

      If you’re a reasonable human being you tend to have a think about these questions but if you’re a *Mushroom* as the BBC likes to refer to it’s viewers and listeners you don’t think, you respond by spitting out the words the media invented to make it easy for you not to think relieving you of all responsibility and common humanity as a citizen of the world

      No questions? or NO QUESTIONS!

    384. Meg merrilees says:

      BBC news reporting that Spanish parliament is debating to

      depose Puigdemont…. and remove…with force – if necessary”

    385. yesindyref2 says:

      Good, one more UN thing, and both the EU COR and Parliament aren’t neccessarily finished either. There is a bit of a tussle going on I think behind the scenes between the EU Parl and the Councils, with the Parl actually controlling the Commission basically. The EU itself seems to be split between democracy and sovereignty.

      The long game is definitely in Catalonia’s favour, as it gets more and more awareness, and hence call for action.

      Every little helps, and I think I can guess which posting was your hubby’s, if it mentioned George 3! I did similar in my 2nd posting. Does the US really want to think its Independence is “illegal” under British Law? Can we have our tea bags back please? I could do with a cuppa!

    386. Ken500 says:

      @ Telegraph

      Attempt to take over Johnston Press by a shareholder who owns Metro – Sweden? Aided by a 20% shareholder. Trying to change the Chairman and the Board. Force them to repay debts they do not have funds to repay. Bankrupt? Or sold off.

      Still £200Million of debts need reconstructed by 2019.

    387. Jack Murphy says:

      Thankyou Nana for all your links at 7:50am today.
      This one in particular:

      “A wee reminder
      Video here

      Just over 2 minutes TV recording re North Sea Oil and Thatcher’s reign over us.

      To think there are still some people in Labour in Scotland who believe we are Bettertogether !

      Blinkered is not the word for it.

    388. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees
      Sad to say, if force – military force – is finally used (hasn’t been before it’s paramilitary but police kind of thing), then Lisbon A7 could be invoked, or even Article 11:

      4. Not less than one million citizens who are nationals of a significant number of Member States may take the initiative of inviting the European Commission, within the framework of its powers, to submit any appropriate proposal on matters where citizens consider that a legal act of the Union is required for the purpose of implementing the Treaties.

      That A11 would need an internatinal EU-wide petition.

    389. Ken500 says:

      Puigdemont did not have the necessary majority. He knew he did not have the majority needed but went ahead. Causing the crisis. Did not listen to the people. Broke Catalonian/Spain/EU/UN Law. He could go to jail?

      1/3 + support Independence in Catalonia. On low turnouts. 30% /40%. Apathy or disagreement. Those against boycotted the vote as illegal.

      2.3Million. Electorate 5.5million, pop 7.5Million. 1.5 under 18 years. 1/2 million do not have a vote. EU citizens /foreigners?

    390. Greannach says:

      These-Islands could prove to be as entertaining as Vote Nob Orders and the Tory MP’s hands across Hadrians Wall that ended up in a pile of rubble near Gretna.

      Brit Nats are fantastically comic.

    391. Ken500 says:

      Clocks going back. Fall back.

    392. yesindyref2 says:

      @@Meg merrilees
      Such a petition by the way would have to be competently formulated and under control of a small – or large – group of constitutional and legal experts, in terms of the Articles, and probably not yet. With timing also under their control.

    393. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg Merrilees
      Might be a false lead from me there, probably A11 and A21 relate to international realtions, not internal.

    394. meg merrilees says:

      trying to follow the debate in Barcelona- opposition accusing Puigdemont of an attack on the EU. My Catalan isn’t up to it though!

      Think they’re going to the vote…

    395. meg merrilees says:

      Opposition just walked out half way through the various votes

    396. Alex Clark says:


      You’ve posted here a long time and I’ve likely read most of your posts but now you have me stumped. Your support for Donald Trump was let’s say surprising and your hatred of the Greens was fair enough.

      I don’t get though as a supposed supporter of Indepndence you would deny the people of Catalonia the right to make that choice for themselves? Do you also support the police brutality that occured in order to prevent people from making that choice?

      Your figures for turnout in Catalonia are just absolute bullshit, you know that turnout was 42.3% yet claim it was never published. Over 90% of those that voted said YES to Independence.

      You ignore the ballot papers that were stolen from the voting stations. Check out this article by Craig Murray today, you might learn something.

    397. Meg merrilees says:

      Now’ Junts per Si’ asking for a secret vote

      PCS Cs and PPC have walked out.

    398. Breeks says:

      What troubles me about Catalonia is the worldwide indifference and if anything, despite the police brutality, opinions which lean towards the Spanish.

      Scotland was no different in 2014. Yes, independence had its supporters, but a great many people, and Scottish diaspora were surprisingly muted in their support for us. Even the USA’s “liberal” President was against us, taking the side of the British Government which his own country had to go to war to escape.

      We present our arguments to an international community, and expect that community to be objective and even handed in its reaction. In reality, it is the seceding nation which is seen as the troublemaker and the process of recognition becomes an uphill struggle.

      The chances of recognition seem to improve if the country is emerging from chaos, anarchy, or a period of warfare and instability through which it has exhausted itself, and aches for peace and stability. Does Brexit qualify as a similar chaos or tangible madness which Scotland is obliged to save itself from? Even if that means “secession”? We must hope that it does.

      For a region to secede from a peaceful, developed country, and for a few decades that definition has included Spain, it seems the act of secession is judged by the disruption it causes rather than deliverence for those who feel compelled to secede.

      (Just to fly off at a tanget, its curious to note those are the same circumstances whereby the Pope recognised Scotland’s Declaration of Arbroath in 1328 – Scotland had won its war of Independence, and England had formally capitulated. – THEN came the international recognition) .

      The democratic credentials of the Catalonian vote, and Spanish brutality, seems to be making an impact at the UN, but again, what is it we expect the UN to do? Make a resolution? How many UN resolutions are there outstanding against Israel which nobody enforces? Israel that is which has scarcely been recognised by any of its immediate neighbouring countries…

      It does not auger well for Catalonia I fear. And there big alarm bells which we should be listening to here in Scotland. The democratic referendum the inspiring Catalonians tried so hard to protect has been shaken and torn like a dog harries a rabbit, contested, undermined, disputed and ignored. Can anybody persuade me that Scotland’s faith in our democracy is in any way dissimilar to the Catalonian’s faith in theirs?

      Winning the vote is important, but it might not be enough. When Scotland does go to the polls for the next IndyRef, we need to go in mob handed. Not with violence, battons or intimidation, but the cut and dried recognition of our National Sovereignty.

      Until we grasp that issue, and get serious about it, the world will see and judge Scotland as secessionist disruptors of Great Britain. Unless we want Scotland to go the way of Catalonia, bullied and beaten by the sovereign ascendancy of another, then Scotland’s sovereignty must be recognised, and it is entirely down to us to see it done.

    399. TheWasp says:

      O/T but I’m raging

      Programme now in ebc2 called the planners. One of the stories is about a self made egg millionaire in the “borders”. This Scottish entrepreneur has owned a farm since the early seventies, and wants to expand his egg sheds on his own land, and skill also create more local jobs. His application for permission is being blocked by seven “local” families. They have formed a vociferous action group to stop the investment, as it will spoil their rural idyll. They are ALL colonial white settlers….

    400. MEG merrilees says:

      HERE WE GO

    401. CameronB Brodie says:

      @the BBC in Scotland
      I simply can’t stress this enough, Scottish ‘nationalism’ is not deviant beheviour, it is moderate patriotism. The ‘One Nation’ ideology that you sell, deprives your viewers of objective understanding. Enough! Why not investigate HMG’s lack of transparency over the Scottish Brexit impact assessment? Or would that go against your Charter?

      1. Risk and social exclusion

      1.6. Atkinson(1998) identifies three defining features of the social exclusion outcomes on the right hand side of this diagram: relativity, agency and dynamics.

      Relativity resides in the fact that exclusion is defined by the standards and norms that are current at a particular point in time, especially in relation to consumption. Thus access to telephones, and transport, not to mention various kinds of insurance or, in the case of children, clothes and toys, may define individuals as excluded now, who would not have been excluded 20 years ago.

      Agency makes the point that individuals may act to exclude themselves from mainstream life or be excluded by others. Individual choices, however constrained by such structural imperatives as class, gender and ethnicity, are
      therefore always involved.

      Dynamics arise in the sense that social exclusion is a process that involves interacting circumstances and experiences across all the spheres of life over a period of time. Losing a job may not in itself be a manifestation of exclusion, but unemployment over an extended period, accompanied by poverty, poor health and low self-esteem, becomes exclusion. This means in research terms that we can only begin to understand the process of social exclusion by following up individuals longitudinally, i.e. observing their lives over a period of time.

      1.7. So how do people become “excluded”? Sen (1992) stresses lack of “capabilities” as the key component of the exclusion process. Socially excluded individuals have been denied access to the resources (material, cultural, emotional) that enable them to acquire capabilities. Most obviously such capabilities relate to cognitive development and educational success, but also extend to the broader spheres of health and social participation. The life course processes through which they are acquired, or fail to be acquired, are not fixed in time; nor can their acquisition be judged against a fixed set of performance standards.

    402. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees
      Thanks for the commentary. The opposition are right to walk out from their point of view. Perhaps even voting against could be seen as “complicit” in the end result of the vote.

      Stick to known facts please. The vote that took place hasn’t been disputed in terms of actual numbers counted, and yours are way out.

      There were indeed 770,000 ballot papers removed, though some at least including Puigdemont managed to vote elsewhere as his station was one that had the ballots removed, and others may have been able to do the same. As far as I know there’s been no estimate of that.

      Meanwhile in the UK, council elections and European elections, and by-elections, are decided on way less than 50% of the eligible electorate. If you vote, your vote counts, if you boycott it or don’t bother, your vote don’t count. That’s democracy.

    403. MEG merrilees says:

      Politicians being called by name to place their voting slip in the box.

    404. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like Madrid are getting the one finger Salute GRFUPY

    405. Petra says:

      @ Wullie B says at 12:14 pm …. ”Take a look at Josep Goded (@josepgoded):

      ”#Catalonia’s parliament to vote on declaration of independence in a few min.”

    406. yesindyref2 says:

      Finally had time to read that independent expert for the OCHR:

      [in relation to “The Spanish Government appears to invoke the principle of territorial integrity”]

      This principle cannot be invoked to quench the right of all people, guaranteed under Article 1 of the International Covenants on Human Rights, to express their desire to control their futures. The right of self-determination is a right of peoples and not a prerogative of States to grant or deny. In case of a conflict between the principle of territorial integrity and the human right to self-determination, it is the latter that prevails.

      Bit by painful bit, it’s getting there, with time being the key. It’s taken some consittutional experts in Scotland years to review their previous automatic opinions.

    407. One_Scot says:

      BBC describing the 800 injured during the Catalan referendum as ‘running clashes’. FFS. Why don’t you come off the fence and say what you really think.

    408. I suspect the excuse from the other countries around the world for their indifference to how the Catalan people have been treated by the police and Rajoy in Madrid, will be that Spain is a democracy.

      And that they can’t interfere in the internal affair of another democratic country.

    409. Meg merrilees says:

      Puigdemont just voted


    410. Sarah says:

      @yesindyref at 1.21.
      Yes hubby says he did mention George3!
      You seem to be bearing up better than hubby – he is in depths of despair over ignorance/blindness/untruthful reporting and opinions.

      I can’t wait for truth to overcome lies and Scotland to be restored to running itself.

    411. Petra says:

      So far the ‘Si’s’ have it.

    412. yesindyref2 says:

      There needs to be definitive action to cause definitive reaction, and so far apart from the police violence, nothing really solid has happened. After this afternoon’s voting, if it happens and is put into action, things change and become more formal, and a matter of record. Similarly with how, if Madrid passes the A155, what it does afterwards. Both the EU and the UN have to be careful with reacting to a possibility, when there is no actual major conflict in progress, or even in prospect.

    413. Macart says:


      Further to that.

    414. Meg merrilees says:

      Votes being read out loud nearly all…. ‘SI’ — now lost the sound!!! How odd!

    415. One_Scot says:

      Well done Catalonia, I will have a few drinks to you tonight.

    416. Conan the Librarian says:


    417. Meg merrilees says:

      And the answer is..

      now singing the anthem

    418. geeo says:

      To those who think the opposition walking out invalidates this vote, think again, as Bercow made clear last week when the tories refused to vote on universal credit motion, if you choose not to vote, then you must accept the result of the vote you refused to partake in, or you disrespect the parliament, the record clearly states the government LOST the vote by 299 – 0.

      Same principle applies here.

      Independence motion passed.

      Now the EU/U.N. will be required to act.

    419. Liz g says:

      All the best Catalonia.
      So proud of you ….once again….

    420. ronnie anderson says:

      At long last si 70 non 10 Visca Catalunia

    421. Petra says:

      The Catalonian Parliament has just voted overwhelmingly for Independence.

      What’s Rajoy going to do now?

    422. Alex Clark says:

      That’s that, what happens next? We should all be watching closely.

    423. One_Scot says:

      Lol, BBC’s Tim Wilcox cannot contain his disgust.

    424. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s moving on, and thre’s still likely legal actions to take place. The referendum itself was very well planned, hiding ballots away, being able to set up websites overnight when others were closed, and even hiding away filled ballot boxes. I hope this is all being very carefully and thoroughly choreographed, but if not, why would politicians risk long prison sentences for nothing but an empty gesture? So I guess it’s not empty.

    425. galamcennalath says:


      135 MPs
      2 Blank

      unionists walked out.

    426. clan rossy says:

      Republic of Scotland si.

    427. Meg merrilees says:

      Final vote was

      S – 70
      No -10

    428. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart – Guardian – yeah. The EU has resisted reform, and is potentially in deep doo dah now. Head in the sand and hands knees and oopsy-daisy! (as I posted in the N).

      Brexit is nothing compared to this existential crisis. The EU has to include, not exclude, or there’ll be nothing left. Nothing.

    429. Petra says:

      No translation necessary!



    430. Petra says:

      @ yesindyref2 says at 2:37 pm …. ”Brexit is nothing compared to this existential crisis. The EU has to include, not exclude, or there’ll be nothing left. Nothing.”

      Spot on.

    431. yesindyref2 says:

      By the way lest I forget, a huge problem the EU has in any potential action against Spain is Portugal, completely blocked from the rest of the EU by land (and air it seems), by Spain.

    432. galamcennalath says:

      BBC News talking about English Rugby.

      Aljazerra, France 24, RT, and CNN wall to wall Catalunya.

    433. Alex Clark says:

      Will May stick to her “now is not the time” mantra? Let’s see.

    434. geeo says:

      BBC desperately trying to avoid mentioning Catalonia…ok look…a cat on the pitch at an american football pitch.

      Makes a change from a squirrel.

    435. Brian Powell says:

      I doubt the Catalans will be caring at all about what Tim Wilcox and the BBC thinks. They still think they are relevant!

    436. Robert Graham says:

      It would be nice if one day we had one alternative TV channel and a media that worked for all and not the few , oh well we can hope .

    437. Alex Clark says:

      Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy calls emergency cabinet meeting for 6pm UK time. Sky News

    438. yesindyref2 says:

      From that Guardian article: “But in December the European court of justice ruled that article 1 of the UN charter, which guarantees the right of self-determination to states that are not yet independent, is a legally enforceable right in the EU. It has yet to be tested in relation to Catalonia, Flanders or Scotland, but it will be.


      The BBC report fails to have the accuracy of your report, and hence implies with the “opposition walking out” that a majority was not reached. Well, it was. 65 out of 140, 2 blank, and we don’t know if any MPS were unable to attend for any reason (health).

      Yeah. A wee tear for Catalonia (and the EU), but I think the timing was perfect, they had to get that in after the A155 motion in Madrid, but before the actual vote there, otherwise it could be argued they were already not a parliament and couldn’t therefore declare Independence. They played it to the wire.

    439. geeo says:

      CNN anchor asking Catalan academic, “is this legal”?

      Response..”if you follow madrid is not legal, if you follow Catalan laws, it is legal”.

      CNN. “Surely madrid law takes priority”?

      Response…”this declaration is to set up a new country, a country escaping madrid laws, so the point is invalid to Catalans”.

    440. ScottishPsyche says:

      Well done The Republic of Catalonia! Nothing else they could do.

    441. Petra says:

      SKY: Rajoy calling for a Cabinet Meeting at 6PM

      Catalonian Parliament has voten in favour of declaring Independence from Spain and establishing a Republic.

      I wonder if Bessie’s purring today?

    442. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Petra Rajoy has taken to Twitter ( a la Trump ) to say the tule of law will be imposed on Catalonia, the Catalans are in for a hard time in the coming weeks , lets hope that the EU/UN are watching closely .

    443. yesindyref2 says:

      70 out of 135, not fsking 65 out of 140!

    444. David says:

      Im laughing at all you clueless people celebrating this reckless declaration of independence by the Catalan regional government.

      Just be grateful the SNP are smarter than that. There’s only one outcome to this – a dissolution of the Catalan parliament, no legal right to outside help and the destruction of their independence movement.

      Less than half the population voted for this and nearly half the population are against it.

      Its an act of foolishness and ego and the normal people, and real Catalans, who will suffer.

    445. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s an old military principle. If faced with a number of possibilities, all with danger and all with opportunity, do nothing until there’s only one option left.

    446. Macart says:

      @yesindyref2 2.50

      Thought that para would catch your eye. 😉

    447. Breastplate says:

      Best wishes and good luck to Catalonia

    448. Mark Russell says:

      Catalonia declare independence. Good luck to the brave.

    449. geeo says:

      As i said last night, an independence declaration was the ONLY way to progress the Catalan argument.

      Now the EU/U.N. MUST actively get involved.

      The Spanish government reaction will decide where this goes now.

      If they send in the militias/troops, then the U.N. simply MUST support the Catalans.

      Spains only hope to keep Catalonia (imo) is to not engage in violent/political suppression in any way and agree to talks with a view to holding a full and free referendum on independence and hope they win it, so they can claim a majority are against independence.

      I see no other viable option for madrid.

      If other nations start to recognise Catalonia as a country, and Spain indulge in violent suppression, the EU could find itself under international pressure to suspend Spain from the EU.

      Interesting times ahead.

      Especially here in Scotland, where we can watch brexit unfold into the disaster it is, and now we can watch how this situation goes over the next 12 months, particularly regarding the reaction of the EU and U.N.

      One thing for sure is, Theresa May’s line that “now is not the time” is completely obliterated.

      The simple response to that line is “WANT A FECKING BET”?

    450. budwiser says:

      Don’t the BBC and SKY News teams just love using the word “Separatists”

      What a horrible disgusting way to describe “Pro Independence” supporters.

    451. yesindyref2 says:

      I got there in the end 🙂

      That’s one point of view, the other is that a referendum was called whether “illegal” or not, obstructed with violence, returned a majority vote, and was enacted in a legally constituted parliament by majority.

      With Cameron (who apparently was a bit of a hero in Catalonia) Scotland was different, and in any case, the legalitites are different as well.

    452. mr thms says:

      in response to the poster who claimed less than half voted. The turnout was 56.75%.

    453. geeo says:

      Poor David at 2.58pm….pure beelin’

      Madrid just voted for direct rule.

      Crowd member upon being told this..”yeah…they were going to do it anyway”

      Woman saying that, in Germany, the holocaust was legal, should we have accepted that law ?

      Drop mic moment for sure..!!

    454. Meg merrilees says:

      Reading the btl comments on the BBC report re catalonia declaration…

      you couldnae make it up!

      “… so only 51% voted for separation – seems slightly flakey to me” and remind me, what percentage voted for Brexit?

      ‘They’ll become a small fish in a big pond, just like Scotland will be if they become independent!’

      ‘Ruth the Mooth has already donned her toy soldier uniform and legged it over to her tank, just in case! lol’

    455. EphemeralDeception says:

      London must be rather worried.

      At the treaty of Utrecht during the Spanish Succession, the European powers carved up parts of Europe. Until then Catalonia was protected by the English.

      However at Utrecht they agreed that the English would stop any support of Catalonia, letting the Spanish take control and in compensation the English got Gibraltar and the slave trade from North Africa.

      So if Catalonia can remain a separate state it essentially overturns part of the old treaty. Then with UK leaving the EU and Gibraltar wanting to remain its a another stone chucked into the pond.


      “Article X of the treaty Spain ceded Gibraltar and Menorca to Great Britain and agreed to give to the British the Asiento, a monopoly on the oceanic slave trade to the Spanish colonies in America. “

    456. Conan the Librarian says:

      @ David

      Laughing, are you? The Djinn is out of the bottle now, and soon you will be pulling the Daily Mail over your head for comfort.

    457. Alex Clark says:

      European Council President Donald Tusk on Catalan crisis

      “For EU nothing changes. Spain remains our only interlocutor. I hope the Spanish government favours force of argument, not argument of force.”

      He “hopes” what an arse, he has the power to do something about it.

    458. Sarah says:

      To the Catalans who stopped at our Yes stall in Ullapool in August 2014 and wished Scotland luck. Thank you. You have shown us a great example – good humour and peacefulness in the face of outrageous authoritarianism.

      Wishing you all the best.

    459. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Spain – you’re chucked!”

    460. One_Scot says:

      Lol, to all those ‘NO’ voters, you had your vote, get over it and move on.

    461. Petra says:

      I notice that no-one is mentioning that we also had a vote in Scotland at Holyrood in March with pro-Independence party’s winning .. without anyone walking out .. not voting.

      We’re being patient and won’t accept ‘Now is not the Time’ …. from an unpopular wee wummin who’s party, that we didn’t vote for, is being supported by a party, that we can’t and wouldn’t ever vote for …. for much longer.

      We don’t want to take the Catalan route, for the obvious reasons, but if need be will invoke Article 1 of the UN Charter.

      This Union, like Spain, is now in it’s death throes.

    462. galamcennalath says:

      “A good blow of the sickle,
      defenders of the land”

    463. Proud Cybernat says:

      To ensure there is no boycott of Scotland’s next Indy vote it might be a good idea for the SNP in the next Scottish Election to stand on a platform of Independence i.e. that if the SNP win the next Holyrood election they will have a mandate to negotiate Indy with London. This will then be ratified (or not) by a vote the Scottish Parliament.

      As Alex Salmond once said, there are many ways to skin a cat.

    464. dakk says:

      Congrats and admiration to Catalonia.

      Glad they took no time at all to dump the pompous paracitical King of Spain.

    465. Alex Clark says:

      Puigdemont on vote result

      “Today our legitimate parliament…has taken a very important step. The legitimate representatives have followed the people’s mandate. We will need to keep calm”

      “Spanish senate approves imposition of direct rule in Catalonia”

      Hate to say it but these quotes are all from Sky News.

      As far as Europe is concerned this decision today is the most important thing that is happening. It’s unprecedented in recent times and IMV very important for Scotland too. I hope but somewhat doubt that dialogue can take place. That’s the only sensible option for Madrid.

      Where are you EU?

    466. ronnie anderson says:


    467. ronnie anderson says:

      sky news Separatists Separatists if I was with Sky I would be SEPARATING THEM FROM A SUBSCRIPTION post haste .

    468. geeo says:

      Proud Cybernat @3.34pm.

      While you do that in 2021, those of us who gave Scotland independence in the next year and a half will cheer ye oan bud…lol

    469. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like Separatist is the word of choice i wonder where i have heard that one before any ideas Ruth – Mrs Mayhem – Fluffy ? .

    470. Bob p says:

      Well done catalonia,You’ve got the balls unlike some.

    471. Bob p says:

      Any violence from madrid,and the UN should be stepping in.

    472. Andy-B says:

      Long live Catalonia, they had the courage of their convictions.

      In 2014 the Scottish lion whimpered.

    473. One_Scot says:

      Lol, I can’t recall Sky ever calling Brexiteers as separatists.

      Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. The sooner we are rid of this corrupt, repressive and colonial Establishment the better.

    474. Wullie B says:

      I left comment on NYT about their use of the word Seperatists, and asked them if they celebrated Seperatism day every July 4th, its no there now, take it they learnt from UK press to suppress views

    475. Petra says:

      @ ronnie anderson says at 2:57 pm …. ”Petra, Rajoy has taken to Twitter (a la Trump) to say the rule of law will be imposed on Catalonia, the Catalans are in for a hard time in the coming weeks, lets hope that the EU/UN are watching closely.”

      I reckon that Catalonia is in for a hard time for a few months or even years, not weeks, to come Ronnie. Sad to say, IF I’m right. And I don’t see them getting much support with people like Jean-Claude Juncker voicing his fears that a breakaway Catalonia will cause a domino effect that could splinter the EU. With Flanders’ call for Independence splinter Belgium alone.

      We’re taking the right route, no doubt about it imo, because our situation is totally different. Puigdemont took the only avenue left open to him. When we call for another Referendum (with a mandate to do so), on clarity of Brexit which May won’t be able to refuse, the EU and UN will be right behind us by stating that this is the legal and civilised way to do things: With a big wagging finger pointing at Catalonia.

      Scotland a country, a Kingdom, with around 1000 years of Independence behind it entered into a mutual agreement (aye right, I know!) in 1707. We are part of a Union that has no written Constitution, unlike Spain. If we vote to leave, we leave. End of, but more than anything end of with little to no violence, hopefully.

      My only concern, in all of this, is that the Catalonian situation will put some unenlightened Scots off of supporting Independence at all, especially if the scaremongering Unionists lie and use it to put the wind up everyone’s kilts.

    476. Dan Huil says:

      Best wishes to the people of Catalonia.

    477. geeo says:

      The Scottish Lion didn’t “whimper” in 2014 you ignorant tit.

      They were subjegated by threats, lies, and scaremongering.

      Those wavering Scots did not have the massive advantage of pro indy media which Catalans enjoyed.

      Catalans were treated horrifically by Franco’s facist regime as well, they have a far greater grievance towards Madrid than Scots have toward London.

      Scots will vote Yes when they wake up to WM largesse.

    478. Ian Brotherhood says:

      We all have our own thoughts on what’s happening in Catalonia right now, but what we think doesn’t ‘matter’.

      Most of us here want the same thing. We may disagree on the best way of getting there, but we are (generally) in agreement that the SNP is the most effective vehicle. What Nicola Sturgeon says now is important to each and every one of us. She’s been fantastically sure-footed as SNP leader and has shown up May more than once. Fingers crossed she negotiates this one well – it’s crucial for all of us that she does.

    479. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Catalonia and Scotland’s political struggles.

      Territorial Integrity
      Introduction / Definition:

      “The principle of territorial integrity is an important part of the international legal order and is enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, in particular in Article 2, paragraph 4”[1] (the prohibition of the use of force), as well as in other important texts, including those on self-determination. The concept includes the inviolability of the territory of the State, including territory under the effective control and possession of a State. The International Court has held that “the scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of relations between States.”[2]

      [1] International Court of Justice, Accordance with international law of the unilateral Declaration of Independence of Kosovo, Advisory Opinion, ICJ Reports (2010), para. 80.

      [2] Ibid.

      Self determination and the territorial integrity

      The principles of territorial integrity and self determination are two important principles which apply to international law and politics. These principles define the relationships which a country should have with others especially regarding global politics. The principle of self determination explains that countries have the right to freely determine their international politics status and sovereignty without outside or external interference (Gudeleviciute 1-5). The principle of territorial integrity on the other hand explains that countries should avoid promoting border changes or secessionist movements in other countries. Such movements or changes are viewed as acts of aggression. Although these two principles play an important role in international politics, they sometimes come into conflict due when being applied.

      Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, and the Right to Secession


      Ralph Steinhardt of George Washington University Law School outlined four essential propositions regarding self-determination and international law. The first is that the law simply will not definitively resolve competing claims for power or territorial disputes, though it can provide the requisite mechanism in attempts to do so. Yet the paradox remains: Self-determination has little legal meaning but is nevertheless a tremendously powerful political principle….

      The second proposition regarding the legal context of self-determination is that international law is not “univocal” on the subject….The third basic proposition about the legal context of self-determination is that it is not a “suicide pact” in that it does not oblige any state to subjugate its own self-interest. Law is basically an expression of self-interest and has evolved accordingly over time.

      The fourth proposition is that law is constantly changing. After several distinct eras, Steinhardt maintained, the self-determination norm is at a legislative turning point. There are several new meanings or “clusters of principles” that should be included in the right to self-determination, just as there are new ways in which the right should be interpreted.

      First of all, the right to self-determination must be addressed in light of customary human rights concerns, especially those of interest to identity groups. Second, it should be understood that identity groups have options short of statehood to air their demands. Specifically, they have the right to participate in bodies such as assemblies of national minority affairs, local autonomous administrations, decentralized and local forms of government, and mixed commissions (either regional or international) to facilitate a continuing dialogue on the issue. All of these are possible institutional arrangements short of statehood that the United States could encourage. Third, the right to self-
      determination must include the right of enforcement and scrutiny by an appropriate body, meaning the abandonment of the idea that self-determination somehow erects a wall of exclusive domestic jurisdiction for any country.

    480. Dan Huil says:

      Time for the International Brigade to reform? In a peaceful way of course.

    481. Ken500 says:

      Craig Murray is quoting the wrong figures. Only once has there been an Independence majority in the Catalonian parliament which was overturned at the next election. Calling snap elections. On the d’Hondt system which can be manipulated. A farce. People do not even register to vote. Puigdemont and Co are manipulating the vote. It is impossible to get a 90% majority on a 43% turnout, when the opposition is boycotting the vote because they consider it is illegal. Puigdemont did not have a majority but still went ahead. Partially the same result but a slightly higher turnout 43%. An insult to Democracy.

      Puigdemont broke Catalonian/Spanish/EU/UN Law. There are reports Puigdemont owns a national Catalonian TV station. He was a journalist. That would not happen in any free and fair democracy. Mayor of Girona. Mayors in Spain have vast powers. Opportunity for corruption. The Spanish despise the politicians and the political system. The reason they do not come out to vote? They protest against all of them. In Spain. Politicians, lawyers, bankers go to jail The head of Bankia was put in jail. Royalty is charged and put in trial. The King’s sister and brother in Law were charged with property fraud, embezzlement and out on trial. He was convicted.

      The minority could take down the euro causing hardship for the poorer in Europe. They have already done contributing to the mis selling holiday the banking crisis in Spain on the Costas – Mediterranean coast. Borrowing on London lending markets. Including UK subsidiaries. Fleecing EU citizens and foreigners. With no come back under Spanish Law. Antiquated. People lost £Thousands. Total £Billions. Lost deposits and their pensions and live saving. On worthless property of no value. Property prices slumped to half. In Barcelonia/Catalonia. The Spanish Gov had to borrow £Billions from the EU/ECB to bail out the banks. It had to be paid back by the whole of Spain. Bailing out Catalonia. It affected the rural poorer the most. Not the wealthiest parts of Spain, including Catalonia who were bailed out.

      There is a form of redistribution in Spain on a federal system. Catalonia refused to pay £4Billion contribution. To help the poorer rural areas. One of the wealthiest parts of Spain protected from the fall out. (Like London S/E). A Spanish Court backed Catalonia they do not have to pay the contribution.

    482. Famous15 says:

      The BBC is showing its bias regarding Catalonia.

      Spain calls the action illegal and criminal. South Africa called opposition to apartheid criminal.

    483. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Nice stuff, Ken. I assume you now believe that a referendum should be held in Catalonia to prove your assertion

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