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Wings Over Scotland


Scotland is lost

Posted on May 09, 2022 by

We’re still retired, but this just can’t go unremarked.

This is absolute banana-republic stuff. Even before you get into any of the specifics of the case, it’s simply not the Crown Office’s job to interfere with a police investigation by telling them who they may and may not interview under caution.

Scottish justice is extremely seriously compromised.

It has long been recognised that the dual status of the Lord Advocate in Scotland – who is both the head of the Crown Office, and a minister in the Scottish Government answerable to the First Minister – is a deeply unsatisfactory anachronism creating a staggeringly obvious conflict of interest.

We all know the specifics of this case. The money under investigation was EXPLICTLY solicited by the SNP under the clearest possible promise that it would NOT be used for everyday party spending, nor even for more general independence campaigning, but SPECIFICALLY for a future referendum.

It is not the place of the Crown Office to unilaterally decide that the money could in fact be used for a super-lavish office refit instead, or on £50,000 champagne parties in elite London clubs (including the National Liberal Club, below), and somehow still count as having been spent on an independence referendum.

Unfortunately, as well as breaking the story about the missing money in the first place, this site also discovered that the Crown Office in Scotland is accountable to absolutely nobody (except, perhaps, the Queen herself).

Those facts effectively place the First Minister (along with the rest of her government and anyone else she feels like protecting) above the law of the land. All she has to do is lean on her minister, the Lord Advocate, to lean on the police, and any crime can be simply and swiftly magicked out of existence by the Crown Office even on the most absurdly, obviously untrue premise.

And of course the Crown Office itself can be as corrupt and crooked as it likes. If you think someone in the Crown Office has committed a crime you can call the police, who will investigate it, assess the evidence, compile a report and send that report to… the Crown Office to determine whether to prosecute itself or not.

And readers, it’s increasingly hard to argue that a country whose leaders and chief justice officers are beyond the law is a country in any fit state for independence.

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    740 to “Scotland is lost”

    1. ScotsRenewables says:

      Guess who said this:

      “She added: “Not all men are misogynist, but misogyny comes from men and that’s what needs to change.

      “It’s not women that need to change, it’s the conduct and behaviour and attitudes of men.”

      Sounds positively misandrous to me. Fuck off with your demonising of three-quarters of Scottish society Sturgeon.

      Women with penises OK, men with penises bad. Orwellian claptrap. I’ve really had enough of this utter bollocks, if you will pardon the expression.

      She needs to get off that incredibly high horse of hers and produce this magic referendum out of her magic hat. The rest she can just STFU about.

      I know this isn’t exactly practicing what I have preached in other posts about reconciliation and co-operation, but I really am sick of that woman’s insufferable arrogance.

    2. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Enough said – about as reliable and trustworthy as a Holyrood minister.”

      I’ll generously assume you’re referring to Wikipedia .

      ” Amazing ” how ANYTHING that contradicts the hegemonic Neo/Con/Lib narrative is labelled * Conspiracy Theory *

      Even more amazing that people who ought to know better – having seen ACTUAL savage conspiracies here in * Bonnie * Jockland , are so compliant in acquiescing to this garbage .

    3. Ottomanboi says:

      This is why Sturgeon should be «swatted».
      https://archive.ph/3yLtM
      She is not interested in independence for her country.
      In that regard she is full of conceit and deceit.
      If Scots are unable to see her guile through the posturing «globalist» theatrics they are indeed very wet behind the political ears.

    4. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says: 16 May, 2022 at 11:28 am

      <em:

      Mark Boyle says:
      16 May, 2022 at 11:18 am
      Breeks:

      To quote from Wikipedia ….

      Ha! Ha! Ha!

      The Oracle has spoken…

      Like I said (but you clipped off), any port in a storm, but I wasn’t wanting to set off any of the Vlad fangroupies had I elaborated any further.

      The Greyzone is little more than Max Blumenthal’s jumped up blog as he dives further and further down into tinhat territory. He regularly contributes to both those ever so reliable sources for sober and unbiased reporting, RT and Sputnik.

      He also contributes to China’s CGTN (its English language propaganda shill about how wonderful life is in the genocidal “People’s Republic”) and Al Jazeera (so long as he’s slagging off something to do with Jews). The Poles have dubbed him since 2014 as “Putin’s Useful Idiot” – precisely because The Greyzone appeared under a month after Blumenthal visited the Kremlin, after which he began spouting whatever revisionist crap and conspiracy theories best suited Mad Vlad’s desire to sow division within western democracies.

      He’s one of those people like Galloway who has made a career out of backing whoever is in the bad books of the west for the sake of it – little more than a professional Lord Haw Haw.

    5. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      16 May, 2022 at 12:09 pm
      This is why Sturgeon should be «swatted».
      https://archive.ph/3yLtM
      She is not interested in independence for her country.
      In that regard she is full of conceit and deceit.
      If Scots are unable to see her guile through the posturing «globalist» theatrics they are indeed very wet behind the political ears.

      But, but,… before the elections she promised a new Indy Campaign!

      She’s taking the absolute piss, and the numpties lap it up.

    6. Breeks says:


      Mark Boyle says:
      16 May, 2022 at 12:47 pm

      He’s one of those people like Galloway who has made a career out of backing whoever is in the bad books of the west for the sake of it – little more than a professional Lord Haw Haw.

      Ok tell me what he’s got wrong or made up in that article… In your own time. Show your sources too, …like he did.

    7. Ottomanboi says:

      MARK BOYLE
      You do not have to be a Putin fan to work out the why of his initiatives. NATO manoeuvres are currently under way in the Baltic states, they were scheduled before recent events. Manoeuvres of the kind have been taking place in Eastern Europe for a decade. Hardly suggestive of peaceable intent. US involvement aka meddling in the Caucasus and Central Asia has added fuel to forces of destabilization on Russia’s borders.
      America through its goons in Nato wishes Russia brought to heal. Putin is unwilling to oblige.
      You have to be a rabid Russophobe not to see the deliberate provocation going on.
      The US economy is now on a war footing and its military industry is ecstatic. Not much is needed to start a major, possibly global war.
      Btw «Mad Vlad» is so BrutNat Daily Mail so we get where you are coming from.

    8. James Che. says:

      Gregor.
      Scot renewables.

      Nice to someone keeping an eye on the correlation between NS speeches and those imposing the great reset on nearly every country including Scotland,

      Independence of Scotlands people and country cannot at one and the same time, be led by by NS following the dictats of the both the great reset and Scottish independence, the just do not tally up.

      She can been seen to feed Scots the speil and the carrots.

    9. Ottomanboi says:

      Before Ukrain hit the news, alarm bells about the kind of country it was were already sounding. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
      Nicola Sturgeon ought to do some basic research before she preaches from her pulpit on stuff so suspiciously «on message».
      Job seeking?

    10. James Che. says:

      Scots Law,

      TREASON.

      1) Theft in Landed men.
      2) Murder in Trust.
      3) Wilful fire raising.
      4) Firing coalheughs.
      5) Assassination.

      TREASON ACT 1708, Parliament of Great Britain.
      Section 1) Abolished the Scottish Offenses, in Scotland and replaced and introduced the definition of English law of treason and high treason which was passed on 1st may 1744.

      Both of these Treason Acts by the Parliament of Great Britain Breached the treaty of the union.

    11. James Che. says:

      The corruption of blood . was a english Act and Law.

      But it was not Abolished until 1814, after the treaty of the union, by the Parliament of Great Britain.

      This Act transferred peoples land, property and belongings to the Crown. Should anyone commit certain crimes,
      By passing children or fathers to inherit family property,

      This law was not Scots law, but could have been applied under the Parliament of Great Britain to Scotland.

    12. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/2nEph

      Lousy decision by Sweden to end 200 years of neutrality just to join in NATO’s expansion at a time when the biggest threat to peace is NATO’s expansion.

      I wonder however whether the sudden surge by everybody and their dog to join NATO is just political ballast being deliberately orchestrated to give the West some leverage on Russia in potential peace negotiations. Makes sense if it is, but bloody frightening development if it’s not.

    13. Republicofscotland says:

      “The Greyzone is little more than Max Blumenthal’s jumped up blog as he dives further and further down into tinhat territory”

      Mark Boyle@12.47pm.

      It was Blumenthal that exposed the White Helmets for what they are, the Times of Israel branded him an anti-Zionist, and Jimmy Wale’s Wikipedia via Phil Cross (a group of establishment drones/bots for whom is unknown yet, that edits truth seekers wiki pages such as Craig Murray’s) has great interest in Blumenthal.

      Of course when Blumenthal exposed the White Helmets for what they are and the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights as a one man band running from a clothes shop in Coventry, the White Helmets founder James Le Mesurier had to be suicided in 2019, Le Mesurier worked variously for Nato and was an SIS employee.

      By the way, the White Helmets are in Ukraine training their counterparts on how to stage events and provide disinformation

      Don’t get me started on the Uyghurs shite you’ve been rabbiting on about as true.

    14. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks @3.28pm.

      Breeks.

      Don’t be fooled Sweden was anything but neutral.

      “Some Swedes were in fact engaged in close collaboration with Nazi Germany and their government deliberately chose to draw a thick veil over their activities when the war ended.

      What has particularly shocked and disgusted many people in the run-up to the Stockholm conference on the Holocaust is a television documentary exposing how several hundred Swedish soldiers volunteered to fight on the German side during the war. Some worked as guards at Treblinka, the concentration camp where 900,000 Jews were murdered.

      The Swedish authorities, it has now emerged, never attempted to investigate the deeds of these soldiers when the true horror of Nazi Germany came to light.”

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/murky-truth-of-how-a-neutral-sweden-covered-up-its-collaboration-with-nazis-5372299.html

    15. Ottomanboi says:

      Serving two masters leads to «doublethink».
      https://off-guardian.org/2022/05/15/the-subtleties-of-anti-russia-leftist-rhetoric/
      Doublethink aka the New Normality. Add a jigger of woke and shake up that perfect new fascist cocktail.

    16. John Main says:

      @Republicofscotland 16 May, 2022 at 4:35 pm

      Tell you what Repo.

      Publish us a list of the European countries that have or have had Nazis, neo-Nazis, or paleo-Nazis in them somewhere at some time or other.

      Then we can all join with you in calling for Holy Mother Russia to flatten them and enslave their populations; men, women, old, young, senile, still at the crawling stage. They will all have it coming.

      Of course, poor wee Scotland will be on that list too, but no stone must be left unturned, eh Repo, in your foam-flecked drive for whatever it is you actually want?

    17. John Main says:

      @Ottomanboi 16 May, 2022 at 4:59 pm

      Many people believe use of “fascist” is indicative of somebody who has little real idea about what she/he writes/speaks.

      It’s just a lazy insult that has become devalued to worthlessness by overuse.

      All it really means these days is “somebody who I don’t agree with”.

    18. James Che. says:

      This will give you clues to how from roman times to present day war comes about,

      Common/ s, common man, the common people or masses.

      The ordinary person in a community or nation who did not have any significant social status,
      Especially if you were not a member of Royalty, , Nobility, nor any part of Aristocrats such as the Clergy. Whom mainly came from royalty.
      The three estates of the realm. ( like Scotland had )
      The three fold stratification was,

      Those that preyed. Those that worked and those that fought.
      Britain still has these medieval structures in place as supporting The British Empire attitudes in 2022 to war for the sake of it, because thats what a group of toffs do as a job.

    19. James Che. says:

      Did david cameron in a interview once that he was a zionist on tv.

    20. twathater says:

      Sturgeon getting glad handed and boosting her profile for her CV TELLING the world how to SAVE the world , meanwhile back home her government and ministers are displaying a level of incompetence competing with WM and the bozo clown show to PROVE that they can mirror and even better the stupidity and incompetence WM are renowned for

      IMO she knows her time is up with her lies of an indy ref in 2023 fading rapidly (even the sycophants and apologists are looking restless) she is looking for that bolthole of world statesmanship (is the gender definition correct) to SCURRY TO

      It is nice to see Scotsrenewables has removed the snp sturgeon sunshades from his eyes and has rejoined the REAL independence supporters who are NOT party groupies or cultists but ordinary citizens that just want freedom for THEIR COUNTRY or in other words PATRIOTS

    21. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      16 May, 2022 at 5:06 pm

      @Republicofscotland 16 May, 2022 at 4:35 pm

      Tell you what Repo.

      Publish us a list of the European countries that have or have had Nazis, neo-Nazis, or paleo-Nazis in them somewhere at some time or other.

      Is that not a ridiculous question? Are you suggesting that the BNP can be compared to the Nazis in Ukraine.

      When I first read your question I thought you were asking which European countries had Nazis in power at some time or another.

      The ones I knew of were Germany, France & Spain.

      I believe the Russians did help out in getting shot of the Nazis in France & Germany. Not sure what attempts they made in Spain. I might Google it and let you know.

    22. Dan says:

      @ twathater

      How anyone can still have confidence in any of the fustian utterances she/ her / burner of (wo)mandates emits is beyond me.
      I’m not investing any savings in a national savings bank
      I’m not paying a national energy company for my overpriced leccy
      I’m no longer an EU citizen or even living in the single market
      I even tried dating a transwoman with the hope of increasing Scotland’s younger population, but immediately noticed “docking port” issues, so someone is defo selling pups on that transwomen are women score.

      I’m guessing launching a liferaft to lead and save oor country from all this unfloding shit is jist too much of an ask, but then again, as can be seen by the ferry fiasco, I’m not sure I’d trust her to launch a lifefraft as she’d probably Muriel Gray it anyway…

      OT Guessing last week’s “removal” of the old Burntisland crane was organised by the same ferry fiasco folk seeing as it went so well.

    23. Ruby says:

      As promised I Google how the Russians helped Spain.

      The Nationalists were supported by Mussolini’s Italy and Nazi Germany. The Republicans received aid from the Soviet Union as well as from the International Brigades, composed of volunteers from Europe and North America.

      The Soviets also sent more than 2,000 personnel and $81,000,000 in financial aid, the armory, mainly tank crews and pilots, who actively participated in combat for the Republicans

      Soviet Union and the Spanish Civil War
      https://spartacus-educational.com/SPrussia.htm

    24. Ruby says:

      Sturgeon isn’t going to get job with all this going on:

      https://tinyurl.com/289aj47k

      She will be pipped at the post like Mhairi Hunter.

      A transwoman will get the job every time!

    25. John Main says:

      @Breeks says 16 May, 2022 at 3:28 pm

      “the biggest threat to peace is NATO’s expansion”

      Oh FFS. There was me thinking there was a war on, but no, Breeks still calls it peace.

      Where’s Gregs with a dictionary definition post when you really need him?

    26. Ottomanboi says:

      JOHN MAIN
      True, «fascist» may be a handy portmanteau insult for ideas a person does not like but fascist may also refer to that insidious trend towards corporatist ideology, a petrie dish of ideas picked from right and left that classic italian fascism cultured as a new creation between capitalism and socialism skillfully perfected by an overseeing, all seeing «administration».
      The notion of a pseudo hegelian synthesis of «the best of left and right» is to be found in the «neo-humanitarianism» of the WEF, the Davos «world leaders» élites, American globalist capitalism transformed by so called woke sentiment.
      Fascism is anti intellectual in so far as it does not require its subjects to think, thinking, if required, being done by the state apparatus and the great minds of the chosen.
      Fascism is where self styled left and right requisition democracy’s bed, mate and beget their chimaera.
      Aw! its got its parents eye.

    27. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/N3nAE

      “He said: “We stand on this platform as unionists opposed to the protocol. We may differ on other points, we may have different emphasis and priorities, but we stand here this evening united against the protocol. I know many of you out there – and you have different allegiances, you belong to different bands, you support different football teams, for all I know there may even be some blue men here this evening.”

      I have just been reading the above and I had to Google to find what he meant by ‘blue men’ Does that really men ‘non white’ I thought it meant protestant but it didn’t make sense because he said ‘you support different football teams’ which I presume covered the catholic/protestant thing

    28. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 16 May, 2022 at 6:11 pm

      John Main says: 16 May, 2022 at 5:06 pm

      @Republicofscotland 16 May, 2022 at 4:35 pm

      Tell you what Repo.

      Publish us a list of the European countries that have or have had Nazis, neo-Nazis, or paleo-Nazis in them somewhere at some time or other.

      Is that not a ridiculous question? Are you suggesting that the BNP can be compared to the Nazis in Ukraine.

      When I first read your question I thought you were asking which European countries had Nazis in power at some time or another.

      The ones I knew of were Germany, France & Spain.

      I believe the Russians did help out in getting shot of the Nazis in France & Germany. Not sure what attempts they made in Spain. I might Google it and let you know.

      Pity the Russians helped the Nazis get into Poland in the first place, circa 1939 and the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. To say nothing of the Soviets backing for Hitler (cheap timber and ore) being crucial in the so-called Nazi “economic miracle” before the 2nd World War (Hitler and Stalin sharing the same little mindset problem with Jews …)

      It always makes me laugh when the Vlad apologists try playing the Nazi card against anyone else. Russia was the nation which turned anti-Semitism into a sport (for those of you who have never saw the musical “Fiddler On The Roof”) between 1881-84 when they had two hundred pogroms alone and 690 between 1903-06.

      James Gibson in the British Journal of Political Science of March 2007 warned that despite centuries of promises to behave, the Russians have never got over their addiction to blaming Jews for everything whenever the economy turns sour, or when some autocrat (Tsar, dictator or wannabe) wants to be the strongman needing a scapegoat to show their might upon.

    29. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      16 May, 2022 at 6:48 pm

      @Breeks says 16 May, 2022 at 3:28 pm

      “the biggest threat to peace is NATO’s expansion”

      Oh FFS. There was me thinking there was a war on, but no, Breeks still calls it peace.

      Let me help you out. What Breeks means is ‘world peace’ dah!
      I could sign off by saying ‘happy to help’ but I really would prefer if you engaged your brain and stopped making ‘skid marks’ all over this forum.

    30. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      It always makes me laugh when the Vlad apologists try playing the Nazi card against anyone else. Russia was the nation which turned anti-Semitism into a sport (for those of you who have never saw the musical “Fiddler On The Roof”) between 1881-84 when they had two hundred pogroms alone and 690 between 1903-06.

      You’ve lost me now! Are you saying the Russians are nazis? I presume there are two sides to this current argument here on ‘Wings Over Ukraine’ you call one side ‘Vlad apologists’ also know as ‘Putin’s Poodles’ what would you call the other side the one you support?

    31. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      James Gibson in the British Journal of Political Science of March 2007 warned that despite centuries of promises to behave, the Russians have never got over their addiction to blaming Jews for everything whenever the economy turns sour, or when some autocrat (Tsar, dictator or wannabe) wants to be the strongman needing a scapegoat to show their might upon.

      That sounds a lot like Scotland and the Tories.

    32. John Main says:

      Mark Boyle 7:27

      Of course, you are right. It always used to puzzle me how we all believed that Germany started the war when it invaded Poland, when the truth is that Germany and Russia simultaneously invaded from opposite sides in order to carve up Poland along pre-agreed boundaries. But of course, we had to be sold the fiction in WW2 that the Russians were our worthy allies, when of course, they just weren’t quite as bad as the Nazis.

      But even that depends on who you ask. Plenty of Eastern European nations to this day are unsure if one really was worse than the other. Hence the outrage, horror and terror at the thought that the Russians may once again be rampaging west, slaying, raping and destroying everyone and everything in their path.

      It really is a crying shame. It is hard to think of a country with better resources and space to its advantage, yet with all of that to utilise, exploit and profit from, Russia just can’t keep out of its neighbour’s lands.

    33. Dan says:

      http://robinmcalpine.org/community-equality-hard-work-this-is-how-to-win/

      The borders does seem to have some decent inter town sport and banter based on relatively strong communities.
      Starts early with schools having rugby and swimming teams competing against each other.
      Maintaining sustainable or even viable communities is hard work in other areas though.
      EG. A small 2 bed cottage in my area is now over 200k. Just think about that for a moment… Max mortgage lend was 3 times your salary. Not many local jobs for the young ones that pay 65k a year!
      So you can forget having 15 youngish folk in a rugby team, as my local towns can’t even muster a dozen fit folk to sustain the local fire service, so therefore has to rely on personnel from other areas to cover call outs.

    34. PacMan says:

      I suppose the Americans are Nazi’s:

      https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/31/us/us-military-extremism-invs/index.html

      Maybe we are all Nazi’s so supporting these Neo-Nazi’s in Ukraine is all fine and dandy?

    35. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      16 May, 2022 at 8:59 pm

      Mark Boyle 7:27

      Of course, you are right. It always used to puzzle me how we all believed that Germany started the war when it invaded Poland, when the truth is that Germany and Russia simultaneously invaded from opposite sides in order to carve up Poland along pre-agreed boundaries. But of course, we had to be sold the fiction in WW2 that the Russians were our worthy allies, when of course, they just weren’t quite as bad as the Nazis.

      Are you saying Russia started WW2?

      But even that depends on who you ask. Plenty of Eastern European nations to this day are unsure if one really was worse than the other. Hence the outrage, horror and terror at the thought that the Russians may once again be rampaging west, slaying, raping and destroying everyone and everything in their path.

      <Aren't they losing in Ukraine?

      It really is a crying shame. It is hard to think of a country with better resources and space to its advantage, yet with all of that to utilise, exploit and profit from, Russia just can’t keep out of its neighbour’s lands.

      Are you saying if a country didn’t have space to it’s advantage it would be fine to invade another land?

      I did ask Mark but I will ask you.

      Two sides to this current argument here on ‘Wings Over Ukraine’ you call one side ‘Vlad apologists’ also know as ‘Putin’s Poodles’ how would you describe the side you support?

      Do you believe everything is black & white. Russia bad – Your side The West/Ukraine very good.

    36. Ruby says:

      My question for ‘Biden’s Bichons’ re media.

      How do you know your source of info on Russia/Ukraine is 100% correct?

      I’ve given you a name just to keep things clear.

      The argument here on ‘Wings Over Ukraine’ is

      ‘Putins Poodles v Biden’s Bichons’

      There is an option for a third group. Not quite sure what they should be called. For the moment I would suggest they be called ‘Cut the Mutts Nuts’
      Basically that group would be arguing that all the ‘dogs of war’ have their balls chopped off.

    37. twathater says:

      @ Dan 6.17pm yeuch to your docking station mind bender , I will bow to your superior intrepid investigations, I would hazard a guess that there are not too many Bangkok ladyboy types to be found in the schemies (eh Ruby) I think we are more likely to find wee peely wally bed wetters in the steamie

      Ruby I would definitely go for the “Cut the Mutts Nuts” for the armchair war hawks

    38. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/Cm6zh

      Brace for impact Scotland…

      Now I just wonder, let’s imagine that Scotland was appealing to the UN, EU, and Council of Europe, and pursuing a Constitutional Test Case disputing the integrity of the Union following Scotland’s unlawful and anti-democratic Brexit forced upon it by another country, do you think the EU would extend a holding pen status for Scotland, and do what it could to exempt Scottish goods from sanctions while it pursued it’s EU / Westminster Trade War?

      Sadly, we’ll never know.

      If only Scotland had some kind of Government with competence and a backbone, and a modicum of Constitutional literacy.

    39. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/jxFqB

      Tensions in Washington as Scotland’s First Minister challenges America over it’s role in NATO Expansion and the destabilisation of Europe, and warns that in a blow for NATO, Nuclear weapons are soon to be removed from Faslane.

      Europe follows Turkey’s lead in opposing NATO membership for Ukraine, Finland and Sweden. The EU takes steps to disassociate itself with NATO militarism and retake its vows on peace and trade. Scotland’s removal of Trident from Scottish Territorial waters is welcomed in Eastern Europe as a de-escalation of tensions reviving hopes of a long term diplomatic solution.

      Aye right. Sorry folks, that’s all fiction.

      Sturgeon got a pat on the head as a role model for women, which obviously confused the bejeezus out of Sturgeon, who didn’t know what a woman actually was.

    40. Ottomanboi says:

      If the Brits, French, Americans, Belgians, Dutch, Swedes, Turks, Arabs, Japanese et al. had such clean hands in their dealings with others the outcry against Russia might have more clout.
      Diving into the backstory and recent activities of these peoples reveals the usual rapine, ethnic cleansing, mercenary exploitation and despoilation which make the Ukrain adventure look rather small beer. In truth most have dirty hands.
      The Americans annexed the Kingdom of Hawai’i and expropriated the land. Similar of course in the conquest of the Wild West plus ethnic cleansing fir good measure.
      The lowland Scots participated in the anglicizing war on the «Gaidhealtachd» and likewise in Orkney and Shetland and messrs Jardine and Matheson have much to answer for.
      The Nazis had a host of models from which to draw inspiration including this gent.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Stewart_Chamberlain#The_Chamberlain_circle
      With exception of some of the latter they all did get away with it.
      Bush and Blair in the dock over Iraq…..that’s all history now.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
      Beannachd Dia dhuibh!

    41. Ruby says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      17 May, 2022 at 8:55 am

      If the Brits, French, Americans, Belgians, Dutch, Swedes, Turks, Arabs, Japanese et al. had such clean hands in their dealings with others the outcry against Russia might have more clout.

      Exactly! People in glass houses ………………..

    42. King Edward I of England was the first European monarch/leader to banish all jews from their country,

      `The Edict of Expulsion was a royal decree issued by King Edward I of England on 18 July 1290 expelling all Jews from the Kingdom of England`

      his father Henry III of England passed the Statute of Jewry in 1253 in which,

      `Article Nine commanded that “every Jew wear his badge conspicuously on his breast”.

    43. Robert Hughes says:

      Breeks

      In an unparalleled address to the U.S Congress , Queen of Scotland Nikkki Spungeon – displaying her trademark independence of thought and Gandhi-like militant pacifism , demanded an immediate end to hostilities in Yemen and Palestine . Damn , typo , Ukraine .

      She later insisted she was ” only kiddin ” and complained about the misogynist/transphobic lack of understanding of English humour/irony .

      Ottomanboi . Aye , we have to laugh at the attempts to justify the heavily promoted Russophobia by referring to that country’s past misdeeds .

      Two words suffice to contextualise such idiocies

      British Empire

    44. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cracking cartoon in the Guardian.

    45. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby

      10.37 pm “Do you believe everything is black & white. Russia bad – Your side The West/Ukraine very good.”

      10.59 pm “How do you know your source of info on Russia/Ukraine is 100% correct?

      If your going to advocate for a “plague on both your houses” approach, and basically sit on the fence, I doubt most ordinary Scottish voters, or indeed most of those inside the independence movement, will clamber up there with you though Ruby. Few of us after the #indyref1 campaign would accept that the MSM is unbiased or beyond question. That isn’t to say however that we can simply throw the baby out with the bath water and insist that non of its coverage of any issue, anywhere is to be trusted.

      We can’t know if western MSM sources are 100% correct of course. They’re operating in a war zone for a start, and nobody would deny both sides have an agenda. That doesn’t mean there aren’t binary choices to be made in deciding whether specific incidents being reported on are true or not does it? You and everyone else can decide on the basis of the evidence presented to you, but none of us are there on the ground.

      Look at just one recent example. The Ukrainians say hundreds of civilian deaths in Bucha look like executions: single gun shots, not people killed in shelling or in buildings hit by missiles. We’ve seen coverage from western MSM correspondents who’ve seen evidence of such killings and face to face interviews with Ukrainian people who claim to have witnessed killings. Now some would say that evidence can’t be trusted, and that it wasn’t the Russians who killed all these people, but the Ukrainians themselves in some attempted false flag operation. Others insist these events simply never happened and were faked. Only one version can be true.

      How are you going to decide which? What would convince you for example that the woman in Bucha who was interviewed about her husband being executed in front of her was genuine or not? The same principle applies to lots of situations in the Ukraine, like the bombing of the maternity unit and of the theatre in Mariupol, whether the Moskva was hit by Ukrainian missiles or blew up in an accident, whether there are lots of high level NATO officers and foreign fighters in the Azovstal complex, whether US Lt Gen. Cloutier has been captured or not.

      These are binary issues: both versions can’t be true. Either they happened or they didn’t. If an investigation proves they happened, you then have to decide which side’s version you believe. Do you honestly think we can depend more on Russian state controlled media sources than western MSM sources? Good luck convincing the vast majority of folk here that you’re on the “right side of history”.

      I somehow doubt that whataboutery relating to those in glass houses being in no position to throw stones because of the past crimes of the British Empire, or indeed the more recent misdeeds of the west generally in relation to other parts of the world, is going to convince many ordinary voters in Scotland that we should accept that there’s a moral equivalence between regimes like Putin’s and western liberal democracies, whatever the flaws and shortcomings of the latter.

    46. Republicofscotland says:

      So much for the Nazi’s/foreign mercenaries/international troops and advisors/instructors in the Azovstal never surrendering and fighting to the death, they surrendered and came out with their tails between their legs in the last 24 hours.

      I await with eager anticipation to see how many nationalities, and what rank they are, that surrendered to the RF.

      Its a huge embarrassment for Nato and the EU.

    47. John Main says:

      Breeks, Ottomanboi, RH, etc (AKA the skidmarks)

      If you want Ukraine destroyed and its people scattered or enslaved, why not just have the cojones to say so? You don’t have to continually post these repetitive, convoluted, weasel-worded “ah, but fit aboot …” shite-fests.

      Jeezo. If we all adopt your historical guilt analogy, Scotland can never be free, and can never aspire to anything, because we are all already doomed by our own legacy of war-mongering, racism, attempted genocide, etc. etc.

      You wallow in your own collective, tear-stained guilts if you choose. But leave me, the rest of the Scots, and the wider Indy movement who repudiate your “guilt by association” well out of it.

      FFS. Scotland’s FM attempts to raise the profile of Scotland as a proud, brave, nation on the world stage, standing in solidarity with other proud, brave nations, and your first, only and instinctive reaction is to drag her down.

    48. John Main says:

      @ Republicofscotland says 17 May, 2022 at 11:16 am

      “huge embarrassment”

      Unlike you, eh Repo?

    49. John Main says:

      @ Andy Ellis says 17 May, 2022 at 10:44 am

      Well said.

      It is clear as crystal that many of the BTL skidmarks here could not be so cretinous as to believe the nonsense they post. It just is not credible.

      So the objective cannot be to meaningfully interact with the trolls, fantasists, provocateurs and deliberate liars.

      The objective has to be to impress upon casual visitors to the site that Scots Indy is not just a cesspit of contemptible, hallucinatory, look-at-me-I’m-a-victim, bottom-feeders.

      And maybes, as a result, help to convince some of the soft No readers that Scots Indy can still aspire to be a comfortable home for sane, rational adults.

    50. Mark Boyle says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      17 May, 2022 at 8:55 am

      If the Brits, French, Americans, Belgians, Dutch, Swedes, Turks, Arabs, Japanese et al. had such clean hands in their dealings with others the outcry against Russia might have more clout.

      Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    51. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 11.16 am

      You’ve been assuring us for weeks that there are many foreign fighters in the Azovstal complex and that the Russians already had Cloutier in their custody. Of course it may be true that there are some foreign volunteers amongst the remaining forces there, but as I understand it the Russians are recruiting Syrians to fight, so not sure why that’s any different. You assured us recently that senior NATO officers had been captured at Snake Island and that there were NATO troops in a facility in Odesa, but evidence came there none.

      Of course you also denied there were any civilian deaths at the hands of the Russians in places like Bucha and habitually tell us in relation to any such reports that the Ukrainians are killing their own people on purpose to make the Russians look bad. I’ll leave it to others to figure out on their own which they think is most likely, and which is more likely to be conspiracy theory bullshit.

    52. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 16 May, 2022 at 7:52 pm

      Mark Boyle says:

      It always makes me laugh when the Vlad apologists try playing the Nazi card against anyone else. Russia was the nation which turned anti-Semitism into a sport (for those of you who have never saw the musical “Fiddler On The Roof”) between 1881-84 when they had two hundred pogroms alone and 690 between 1903-06.

      You’ve lost me now! Are you saying the Russians are nazis?

      If I said Nelly is a pink elephant, does that equate to saying all elephants are pink, or if you say you like The Cure that all cats are grey?

      Vlad and his gangsters have played the “Nazi” card because it is emotive and a popular demonisation tactic amongst wokesters in the west to demonise opponents. It also offers a “legit” excuse to those inverted snobs who fetishize everything “un-Western” out of reverse-xenophobia popular amongst pseudo-intellectuals and pretentious 6th Formers with a Hermione Granger complex.

      (Remember those who gloated over the Taliban retaking Afghanistan and saying they weren’t a fraction as bad as they were made out to be? Gone very quiet now everything has reverted back exactly to the nightmare for women the sane warned it would be in double quick time).

      The irony of Vlad trying to play the “Nazi” card that Russia is a nation that’s long had a problem with Nazism’s chief tropes: ie. everything’s the fault of the Jews, so called “Social Darwinism (“might is right ‘cos Darwin said so” [no he didn’t …]), ethnic cleansing of anyone who dares dissent. Not that they’re alone in Eastern Europe in that respect, but they’re the only nation which thinks it has a right by reason of might to invade its neighbours at will and has done so frequently ever since Vlad took power.

      This is not some “isolated case”: Russia has long had an issue with believing it is “The Master Of All Slavs” with a divine right to subjegate all of them (hence why the Estonians make a big deal about being Scandinavians, not Slavs). Lest we forget whilst Hitler was invading Europe, Russia helped itself to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, and was only stopped by horrific losses in Finland from adding it to its list of victims.

      General Patton was demoted (and likely murdered) because in 1945 he said the war wasn’t going to be truly over until Russia was kicked out of all those nations it had also conquored. He’d been shocked when Bishop Gowlina had told him two million Poles had been marched by their “liberators” as slave labour to rebuild Russian cities (most never saw their homes again). He may have been a warmongering ass, but history proved him right in that Russia had never been cured of its delusions of its right to subjegate “lesser” peoples.

      The unfortunate Ukrainians are doing the world an enormous favour in reminding them – and the rest of the world – of the inalienable right of a people to self-determination as one of the hallmarks of civilisation.

    53. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 11.36 am

      Thanks for your comment and support. We may be a fair distance apart politically, but it’s good to have some input from some other reasonable adults instead of credulous, sophomoric man (and woman) babies and sundry other escapees from true deplorables basket.

      It’s a shame that more don’t put their heads above the parapet and point out that the Putinista Czar has no clothes, but in the meantime it’s still, as you rightly observe, a useful and necessary corrective and demonstration to “soft No” voters looking at the current state of the independence movement, to point and laugh at the intellectual nakedness of the opposition.

    54. Robert Hughes says:

      Hahahaha

      NATO’s Numpties all salivating like Pavlov’s dug 🙂

      As if anyone with any sense could give a fuck about their imbecilic opinions

    55. Effigy says:

      Early hours of today on Sky News they reported that the U.K. has extensive reserves of Gas.
      They would like to send more over to Europe but the inter connector isn’t as large as they like
      with its limited capacity?

      It goes on to say that sell the Gas to Europe has a price that is at the lowest it has been for over 18 months?

      Consumers in the U.K. can’t access this low price as our price was agreed months ago
      Nor can we access it in near future as they say the price is predicted to rise?

      I’m reading this as U.K. pensioners, war hero’s can’t heat themselves as inflation and dramatic energy price rises sees them with probably the worst retirement package in all Europe will the Energy Companies and Westminster government make huge windfall benefits and countries in the EU can buy cheap gas from us.

      To quote Freddie- Is this real life or just fantasy?
      Unbelievable!

    56. James Che. says:

      Are you keeping note of the amendments being made to treaty signed With the unelected W.H.O.

      Serious control on citizens of the signed up countries,
      while they will be free to fly and roam the around the world, hidden of course.
      NS is taking us further and further into this global ideology.
      Because the countries that had serious lockdowns faired no better than countries and states that did not carry such a inhumain open prison system.

      Now this is where being an independent country is a must.

    57. Republicofscotland says:

      “Of course you also denied there were any civilian deaths at the hands of the Russians in places like Bucha.”

      Agent Ellis.

      Still no sign of the mayor Bucha who made a video which went widespread on the RF leaving Bucha two days before the Nazi’s slunk back in and not a mention not a word of any dead bodies by the now disappeared mayor. The Nazi’s and their Gestapo the SBU began murdering folk who received aid from the RF and then proceeded to lay their bodies out to blame the departed Russian troops.

      I see the West has buried the Kramatorsk train station massacre after an Italian film crew showed the video of the booster section (still quite intact) of the Tochka-U missile which had very clear and identifiable numbers on it that were traced back to Ukrainian forces.

    58. Ottomanboi says:

      JOHN MAIN
      I suspect you could apologise for Jengis Khan..no matter, you appear, in your comment, to be of the mindset that considers history, even very recent history as bunk. Those who diss history are very likely to see it repeat all over them.
      Your sentiments re Sturgeon has a cultic note yet history does teaches us that is an unwise tendency to pursue. I do observe that she and Pelosi are peas out of rhe same pod of exemplary righteouness.
      Excuse my « wallow» but the US invasion, sorry «liberation» of Iraq decimated, that is the right term, my extended family. I was a baby at the time so fortunately have no memory of the event.
      What is interesting about the latest conflict is the support Ukrainian nats are getting from Scottish nats. The history of Ukrainian nationalism might have suggested some distance be kept. Putin is a Russian nationalist, old imperial school. So we have one nationalism good, the other bad motif.
      An understanding of the historic detail in these cases ought to modulate that, if not muddy the waters totally. Recognising that your people took part in «dehumanizing activities» is a measure of their maturity. Some, alas, are rather more mature in that respect than others. A bit of historical photoshop fixes that though.

      Btw Ukrain is not a nation in the Scottish sense, It was a state confected in 1917 which quickly began to disintegrate owing to ethnic conflict (Poles,Jews) and political factionalism. Nothing has changed.

    59. James Che. says:

      Effigy.

      War the forgotten hero’s were just expendable pawn’s in the war games.
      As i believe it was said of the Ukraine people,
      Western mantra, i heard from America on TV.
      “We will fight to the last Ukraine if we have to”

      That will help them i am sure. A ukraine empty except for dead Ukranians.

    60. James Che. says:

      I am not taking sides with this war as i have said many a time, i am a peace lover first and foremost.

      But i do not think dead people is the solution, do you.

      Maybe it is just more pawns, ( people) to be forgotten about ten years or twenty years down the line.

    61. Republicofscotland says:

      A interesting article on GRA/Self-Id and how Sturgeon wants to open the flood gates on it.

      “MSPs heard from the Equalities and Human Rights Committee (EHRC), which has withdrawn its support for the Scottish Government’s planned reforms of the Gender Recognition Act.”

      “Currently, trans people in Scotland must be diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have lived in their gender for at least two years to obtain a gender recognition certificate or one can be obtained by having surgery to remove or add secondary sexual characteristics such as breasts or a penis.

      The Scottish Government’s much-delayed bill would mean trans people could legally change their sex on documents without a medical diagnosis, and it would lower the age for doing so to 16.

      The changes would also mean a trans person would only need to live in their gender for at least three months before applying rather than two years.”

      So one day you could wake up and self declare as a chocolate teapot, three months later you can declare as a lawn mower. But seriously allowing someone to say that they are the opposite sex after three-months and at the young age of sixteen is utter madness.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20145045.gra-reform-ehrc-cant-give-self-id-abuse-examples-quizzed-bill%2F

    62. Ruby says:

      <B.James Che. says:
      17 May, 2022 at 2:46 pm

      I am not taking sides with this war as i have said many a time, i am a peace lover first and foremost.

      According to Ellis there is no place for peace lovers in the Scottish Independence movement.

    63. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 5.08 pm

      Nice try but no cigar you lying piece of work.

      There’s no place for Putinista shills lacking a moral compass who publicly say the Ukrainians had it coming and who spout Kremlin agitprop. That’s quite a different thing. I may find pacifists misguided but they’re not skid marks on the movement like Putin’s Poodle and those who appear to agree with him in here.

      Luckily they represent an insignificant section of the movement.

    64. Ruby says:

      I’m trying to figure out why Ellis would spend so much of his time writing an extremely long post addressed to me. Is it important to him that I agree with him? He writes:

      “If your going to advocate for a “plague on both your houses” approach, and basically sit on the fence, I doubt most ordinary Scottish voters, or indeed most of those inside the independence movement, will clamber up there with you though Ruby.”

      What is the problem with me ‘sitting on the fence’? Is there some urgency for me to make up my mind and would it be unacceptable to the independence movement that Ellis talks about if I were a pacifist?

      He believes most ordinary Scottish voters/those in the independence movement will not be sitting on the fence.

      Obviously Ellis hasn’t a clue if ordinary Scottish voters are or are not sitting on the fence he is just egocentric that he can’t believe anyone would disagree with him.

    65. Effigy says:

      Tory MP accused of rap* and requested to stay away from parliament.

      They are all totally arrogant and assured they can get away with absolutely anything.

      Unlike the innocent Alex Salmond this man remains anonymous and I’m certain will be defended by Boris the womaniser with kids in every corner, the party and the Met Police useless.

      How many years will they need for Party Gate to be presented to the public?

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-rape-arrest-parliament-b2081147.html?amp

    66. Ruby says:

      @Madder than a box of frogs
      17 May, 2022 at 5:23 pm

      Luckily they represent an insignificant section of the movement.

      Stop makimg shit up! You haven’t a scoobie what people in the independence movement think about Putin

    67. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 5.58 pm

      Pour encourager les autres. You may be a lost cause personally and your MO shows beyond any reasonable doubt not only that you’re a nasty bundle of personality defects wrapped in a skin bag, but also that you’re pretty ill informed generally and fixated on your hobby horse issue.

      When you do lumber in to other issues with all the grace of a rabid hyena, it’s generally to opine that that the matter is unimportant compared to issues you think should be discussed, even though you generally revel in your self confessed ignorance of pretty much everything else.

      Most Scottish voters don’t share the views espoused by the Putinista’s, not do they find it difficult deciding which side is right, and which one is lying to them. The fact you do appear to find it difficult is your own affair. On the contrary, I know lots of individual people disagree with me: that doesn’t make them a majority. If you think Putin’s Poodle, James Che, Robert Hughes and Breeks’ views reflect the majority of the independence movement – still less the majority of voters – your’e even more delusional than your online persona suggests.

      The reason why it’s important to face moon howlers down was explained above: we can’t have undecided soft No voters visiting here thinking that the skid marks disgracing the BTL comment in here represent more than the tiny nutter fringe. That wouldn’t do at all. Even when winding down, we know this site still has a lot more readers, views and traction than other pro-independence sites and blogs. That’s why your unreason, and that of your clueless posse, needs to be countered.

      Happy to clear that up for you. I can repeat it in simpler words and make it shorter for you: I know you complain about long posts, and it must be painful watching your lips move as you try to read through the big words.

    68. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 6.15 pm

      “Stop makimg (sic) shit up! You haven’t a scoobie what people in the independence movement think about Putin”

      It’s obvious to every dog in the street that the general population and the vast majority of independence voters scorn the Putinista narrative. Nobody with a functioning moral compass supports the kind of Kremlin agitprop bullshit Putin’s Poodle comes out with. They represent a tiny nutter fringe you’d never hear out in the real world because folk would laugh in their faces.

      That’s why virtually without exception they choose to remain snivelling anonymous cowards online: they fear the ridicule and opprobrium that would ensue if their identities were known. Decent people know how to deal with extremists and conspiracy addled weirdos: ask the candidate who got booted out of Alba for saying Putin was his hero if he thinks he represents the majority.

      Perhaps Rev Stu could run a poll on the question and ask how many people agree with Putin’s Poodle that the Ukrainians “had it coming”? All reasonable people, and the vast majority of alert readers in here already know what the result would be!

    69. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      FFS. Scotland’s FM attempts to raise the profile of Scotland as a proud, brave, nation on the world stage, standing in solidarity with other proud, brave nations, and your first, only and instinctive reaction is to drag her down.

      Who let the ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ out?

    70. Dan says:

      Totes “epic quality” courteous and engaging btl discussion today, and really pushing the boundaries of diversity of views on all things Scottish…
      This is how I imagine most btl readers these days… (8 secs)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJehlr1tEw

      The big question needing answered for me is can a “no mark” also be a skidmark on the independent movement…
      Ach, it’s back to the *kaleyard for me.
      *May contain many other veg and fruits.

    71. Ruby says:

      Ellis goes on to say in his very long post address to me

      “How are you going to decide which? What would convince you for example that the woman in Bucha who was interviewed about her husband being executed in front of her was genuine or not? The same principle applies to lots of situations in the Ukraine, like the bombing of the maternity unit and of the theatre in Mariupol, whether the Moskva was hit by Ukrainian missiles or blew up in an accident, whether there are lots of high level NATO officers and foreign fighters in the Azovstal complex, whether US Lt Gen. Cloutier has been captured or not.

      These are binary issues: both versions can’t be true. Either they happened or they didn’t. If an investigation proves they happened, you then have to decide which side’s version you believe. Do you honestly think we can depend more on Russian state controlled media sources than western MSM sources? Good luck convincing the vast majority of folk here that you’re on the “right side of history”.

      When am I going to be questioned about this issue? Will it be when I apply to be part of the independence movement?

      Who are these folk that I have to convince that I’m on the “right side of history”

    72. Ruby says:

      Dan says:

      The big question needing answered for me is can a “no mark” also be a skidmark on the independent movement…. 🙂

      That’s a cracker! It would be a real shame if readers left without reading your jokes.

    73. Dan says:

      Blow for post Union Scottish National Energy Company revenue generation stream as Scots start eating salad, and all the leccy that used to be used to fry oor nosh is exported to England.

      https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime

    74. Republicofscotland says:

      “If you think Putin’s Poodle, James Che, Robert Hughes and Breeks’ views reflect the majority of the independence movement – still less the majority of voters ”

      Agent Ellis @6.16pm.

      Those people above that you mention have the ability to think for themselves, and do a bit of homework and come to their own conclusions, and not just blindly believe a media that’s lied to Scots since its inception.

      There are more countries in the world that haven’t placed sanctions on Russia than than have placed them, they don’t blindly follow the Western narrative.

    75. Robert Hughes says:

      Ruby * Baby *

      Your comments alone are worth the * entry price * here . Actual L.O.L 🙂

      Dan …..I think the answer to your question may be ” No skid marks ” on the Independence Movement . Doesn’t sound to bad eh ?
      Think I might proudly identify as a No Skid Mark . But only if Chemical Elli aka The Voice Of The Vast Majority ( unclear what it’s a ” majority ” of , budgies ? ) approves , natch

    76. Mark Boyle says:

      Effigy says: 17 May, 2022 at 6:14 pm

      Tory MP accused of rap* and requested to stay away from parliament.

      They are all totally arrogant and assured they can get away with absolutely anything.

      Word is this has been a case dragging on in the background for quite some time but the Plod didn’t have anything to make it stick. Now they have, so an arrest has been made.

      The individual in question is divorced, and word is the matters are connected.

      The name in question is trending on Twitter, but ironically enough is behind #OwenJonesIsABully so could be spoilt for choice for headlines tomorrow!

    77. PacMan says:

      The latest news from the front line in Ukraine from sources in Ukraine Intelligence

      LOL.

    78. Dan says:

      @ Robert Hughes

      Well if we’re trying to gather a decent majority of folk of all creeds, colours, and unique views under one big pro-indy marquee, it does seem rather futile having a few supposedly pro-indy minders continually blocking entry or chucking folk outta the tent for being the wrong sort of pro-indy folk…
      Who the fuck elected these bolshy twats with that task, I certainly didn’t get a vote on the subject which isn’t very civic or democratic…

      And by the way, the latest word on the street is that aw Jock Tamson’s bairns didn’t even leave skidmarks in their nappies so make of that what you will.

      There’s loads of closer to home matters that could be being discussed rather than stuff we can do heehaw about.
      I hear the Scottish Government Administrators of Devolved Powers couldn’t be arsed or have the smartz to come up with oor own Scottish plan to standardise our Local Authority payment administration and auditing processes, so they just asked Westminster for help.
      I would have thought that such a matter would fall under devolved powers but I could be wrong.
      But to me it just reeks of Scotland keeping alignment with the rest of the UK and big corporate interests rather than creating any divergence and stepping up and implementing oor own way of doing things.

    79. Ruby says:

      Dan …..I think the answer to your question may be ” No skid marks ” on the Independence Movement .

      Well dah!
      Every dog in the street knows that the Scottish independence movement ‘goes commando’

    80. robertkknight says:

      @Dan

      “I hear the Scottish Government Administrators of Devolved Powers”

      Come on Dan. It’s been rebranded the “Bureau of Scottish Affairs”.

      Soon to be absorbed into the English ‘Home Office’, in exchange for SNP MPs at Westminster being able to claim an additional £20 per annum in expenses for Brasso; to keep their necks shiny and well lubed.

      Do keep up… 😉

    81. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      17 May, 2022 at 3:32 pm

      A interesting article on GRA/Self-Id and how Sturgeon wants to open the flood gates on it.

      It’s all going to come back and bite her in the erse. That important job she wants in Nato, the UN, WHO or wherever is going to go to a transwoman. She’ll be pipped at the post like Mhairi Hunter. 🙂 Karma is a bitch.

      They’ll be skid marks on my thong when that happens!

      Have you read about the ‘The Black Pampers’?

    82. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/2p8pc3pe

      Who are the ‘Black Pampers’?

    83. Dan says:

      On trips to US and the apparent inability for Scots to do things for ourselves.
      From a while back.

      https://twitter.com/Rosmoffat/status/1415691971184799747

    84. Confused says:

      I was just thinking that if Arbroath 1320 is correct, and it is – then we are really “Scythians”. Do you know where Scythia is?

      – present day Ukraine.

      Ukraine is RIGHTFUL SCOTTISH CLAY

      and once both sides are exhausted we should press our claim. Putin might have hypersonic torpedoes and chechenoslovakians, but we have GERS FANS and BULL TERRIERS.

      – once our shock troops are charged up with their “battle medicines” – BUCKFAST, DIAZEPAM and “cooncil” (horrible low quality coke) – the russkies wont stand a chance.

      We shall enslave the ukrainian men and give every true Scot 7 ukrainian brides, for procreation, to repopulate the highlands.

      Egypt may also be Scottish, but needs more research; this takes us dangerously close to a clash with that other, powerful, tribe of overachievers – the yehudis.

      The lads will be ready to go once they sack Seville – the Moors and Ben Hur will be nothing like tomorrow.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1ARlytLPo

    85. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 17 May, 2022 at 9:26 pm

      https://tinyurl.com/2p8pc3pe

      Who are the ‘Black Pampers’?

      One of them was interviewed on the Piers Morgan show and proved a complete train wreck – all but proved all these characters are interested in is bullying people under the pretext of defending “trans rights”.

      Sarcastically calling them the Black Pampers is genius, since autogynephilics (what 99% of today’s so called “trans” really are) tend to have a whole range of side dishes to garnish their main fetish, one of which is nappy wearing …

    86. Mark Boyle says:

      Confused says: 17 May, 2022 at 10:33 pm

      Putin might have hypersonic torpedoes and chechenoslovakians, but we have GERS FANS and BULL TERRIERS …

      – once our shock troops are charged up with their “battle medicines” – BUCKFAST, DIAZEPAM and “cooncil” (horrible low quality coke) – the russkies wont stand a chance …

      The lads will be ready to go once they sack Seville – the Moors and Ben Hur will be nothing like tomorrow.

      Surely Rangers fans are banned under the Geneva Convention as “unacceptable” and “barbaric”?

      In any case, their calendar’s already booked up after Seville, if I remember correctly from the reports in The Rangers News aka The Herald (Scotland). Must be some of these clubs no one’s heard of that keep appearing in European competitions these days as UEFA’s definition of “Europe” becomes more elastic. Has anyone else heard of Erebor, Rohan and Gondor?

      #PrayForSeville

    87. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      One of them was interviewed on the Piers Morgan show and proved a complete train wreck – all but proved all these characters are interested in is bullying people under the pretext of defending “trans rights”.

      https://tinyurl.com/2a6abad9

    88. James says:

      Dan;

      You’re spot on there, tedious yoons pushing the arms industry’s agenda.

      (Are John Main and Arms Industry Andy (Ellis) the same bot/person do you think? Posting stuff then congratulating him/it self?

    89. Ruby says:

      The questions that needs to be answered is:

      What is trans?

      Why would people who don’t have gender dysphoria need to change sex?

    90. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/lBJXG

      Iain Macwhirter: Somebody remind Sturgeon that Nato is a nuclear alliance

      https://archive.ph/CB7Aw

      Letters: Trident’s fate must be sealed before Scotland tries to join Nato

    91. Dan says:

      @ Ruby

      Like in days of old with the TV license options. It’s cheaper to be a Black Pamper than a Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey…

      https://twitter.com/blablafishcakes/status/1414523107709267973

    92. James Che. says:

      I wonder who counted our election votes. And made the decision to keep Ole Nick running Scotland,
      Judging by the wide dislike in varied Scottish voters for that globalist.

      It certainly was not Scots,

    93. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      18 May, 2022 at 9:19 am

      @ Ruby

      Like in days of old with the TV license options. It’s cheaper to be a Black Pamper than a Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey…

      https://twitter.com/blablafishcakes/status/1414523107709267973

      The Black Pamper interviewed by Piers Morgan did say they didn’t have much money.

      What is blowing my mind is that Nicola Sturgeon & Craig Murray are 100% behind all of this & more.

      Where does it all stop?

      https://guardian.ng/life/love-and-relationships/10-weird-sexual-fetishes-you-wouldnt-believe/

      Do we teach children about all the fetishes?

      PS I think I might know a Agalmatophilia. Story later if you are interested.

    94. Ruby says:

      Ooops error

      I think I might know an Agalmatophiliac. Story later if you are interested.

      I never knew that is what she was until I read this. I just thought she was outrageous & enjoyed breathing life into statues.

      “Agalmatophilia: arousal to statues. What do you think about this fetish? Do you think these people see statues as things they would be attracted to if the breath of life was given to them?”

    95. James Che. says:

      In this digital age and every man and dog being able to record the counting on site without taking the resulting votes out the buildling they took place in,

      One has to question the purpose of always transferring our votes for miles and miles.

      No local involed in the counting in this modern era.

      Apparently locals are no longer trustworthy.

    96. Dan says:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/18/what-next/

      Ach, sod it, heading out for a cruise around this big country on an alloy framed Japanese bike, coz British bikes are shite and nae steel industry to make frames…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ssx1Davnkw

    97. James Che. says:

      Since Stu wrote the title “Scotland is lost”

      I have been mulling over many aspects of this political observation,
      And Politically with the leaders we have at present in Scotland i tend to agree with him if that status quo remains for much longer.

      However the reason for such a title shows that Stu is aware that many people in Scotland think differently.

      This leads to serious questions about who counts our votes, whom thought it a fair election if the vote counting is contracted out to companies out with Scotland. Or companies related to politicians relatives on the opposition side.

      This manipulative control over Scottish elections would never garner the true results of Scottish voters.
      The saying, ” That we never get whom we vote for” may be closer to the truth under inspection.

      It is all very well thinking the Scots are suicidal in their voting, but have they been?
      We know we have had many on high, showing and displaying obvious interference in our 2014/ elections.

      We had mr Obama with America’s interests showing, even Donald Trump put his opinion forward.
      We had MSM interference.
      And David Cameron and British Government breaking purdah laws, of voting.
      We had Spain interfering.
      And even the Queen.
      And of course Boris Johnson telling us the Russians interfered in the Scottish election,
      And goodness knows whom else.

      The point is these people mentioned are a lot of big guns that the Scottish voter is up against.

      They have political power behind them and an awful lot of control and influence of the systems that are in place,
      But they all also have a serious self preservation interest in Scotland not becoming independent as a country.
      Taking our votes to be counted miles away, just adds to the doubts of the way Scots voted.

      America would loose nuclear access. And a strategic geographical land and water base,
      Spain and the rest of the EU would see the EU as being weakened.( that was before brexit )
      The queen would loose her holiday homes and tax revenues.
      David Cameron would loose face and Great britain,
      And MSM would loose jobs big time for not doing as they were paid to do.

      The Scottish voters are often classed as turkey’s voting for Christmas.
      There is a serious possibility in every Scottish election that the results of those elections past and present are not all from our turkey’s

      We are told by politicians that our % of those wanting Scottish independence is low.
      We are told this by MSM.
      We are told this by poll’s.
      We are constantly mentally coerced into thinking we are to small a percentage or that there is a big divide between us,
      We have to remember who is telling us this as infomation.
      But what is never mentioned is that often all these systems meet at the same dinner table.

      I do not believe that Scotland is lost, or that the Scottish electorate are stupid.
      However they have been up against a very daunting array of subtle and not so subtle big guns in opposition out with their control.

      That there are so many left is not only remarkable.
      But that they have stood the test of of a very long time.

    98. Owen Mullions says:

      Is it true Rev Stu has returned to the bird as the Ghost of Wings?

    99. Stuart MacKay says:

      https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-only-on-ap-north-sea-scotland-3a93a67c1beb1f6de0e88057a178ebd4

      The commitment to a referendum next year is affirmed on American soil. So it sure looks like the State Department has given the green light to an independent Scotland. I bet they want to stick it to the Brits after the mess Johnson and Truss have made over Ukraine.

      Alternatively we’re all being played for fools.

    100. Breeks says:


      Stuart MacKay says:
      18 May, 2022 at 12:53 pm

      Alternatively we’re all being played for fools…

      I made a quip yesterday about Pelosi praising Sturgeon about her being a role-model for women, when Sturgeon can’t even define what a woman is.

      I thought about it later, and either Pelosi’s briefing on Sturgeon was pretty superficial about her GRA and Self-ID background, or maybe it wasn’t, and the praise for Sturgeon setting such a fine leadership example to women was actually some top line trolling.

      I note too, Sturgeon is now waffling on about Independence and NATO, but she’s just talking it to the Associated Press. You don’t have political summits with the Press.

      The narrative when she was actually talking to Pelosi was a pat on the head for being a fine example to women. That’s a pretty anodyne conversation compared to meaningful discussion on Scottish Independence and Scotland in or out of NATO. Or am I being too cynical?

      I’m curious. Did anybody notice if the words “Scottish Independence” were heard to be coming from the lips of Nancy Pelosi?

      I suppose we’ll just need to wait and see the details of what was discussed in the minutes of the meeting… Oh!

      Don’t get me wrong. All this talk about a 2023 IndyRef is probably to be welcomed, but there’s an awful lot to be done and not much time to do it, and you’re probably looking at a YES campaign of less than a year.

      My instincts are to NOT give her the benefit of the doubt, take what she says with a liberal pinch of salt and keep agitating for a Constitutional route to Indy with a People’s Convention cementing the Claim of Right.

    101. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      Totally agree with you.
      Except the title is sovereign Scots convention.

    102. Breeks says:

      Kinda grates too that the Sturgeon acolytes are all whining about the BBC blanking the story about her USA trip. They’ve either a short memory of ALBA being blanked by the media during the Council Elections, or the hypocrisy is otherwise pretty nauseating.

      I had a wry smile when they’re comparing complaints they’ve written to the BBC. Jeezo… I thought we’d moved on after growing out of that caper back in 2014.

      Mind you, these Sturgeon acolytes were probably watching C-beebees back then.

    103. Breastplate says:

      Dan@ 9:56pm,
      It’s exactly what you would expect from a Tory administration, not just a wee bit like but exactly like.
      If it walks like a duck….

      I haven’t been over to the other site this year but I often wonder if the delusionometer is as high as it ever was, I imagine it is, though.

    104. Breastplate says:

      Breeks,
      It could be us that are wrong about Sturgeon and the SNP and they will indeed have a referendum next year. I would quite happily admit I was wrong.
      But what if there is no independence referendum, like we believe. What would be the excuse for not having it?
      Boris won’t let us?
      We’ve changed our mind?
      Let’s have it when we can win it?
      My dog ate the S30?

      What excuse could the SNP come up with that all the Sturgeonistas would seamlessly abandon the cry of Indyref2 in ‘23 to an independence referendum on the twelfth of Never?

      Either they are right or we are.

    105. Breeks says:

      Breastplate says:
      18 May, 2022 at 2:48 pm
      Breeks,
      It could be us that are wrong about Sturgeon and the SNP and they will indeed have a referendum next year. I would quite happily admit I was wrong.

      Conventional wisdom suggest’s there simply isn’t time to get Sturgeon’s Gold Standard Section 30 + Referendum organised. There’s the legislation for it, the Section 30 request, refusal, and subsequent dispute, then you need a realistic campaign period. Add up all the timings and I don’t see that happening.

      One other hand, it’s not that we’re wrong Breastplate but right, and a Constitutional shortcut to a Scottish Referendum without a Section 30 is what’s planned, and as far as I know, the pace of that is entirely ours to dictate. The process will not be bound by any shenanigans invented by Westminster or Holyrood legislation. We’ll be skiing off-piste and making our own decisions.

      If it’s the former, Sturgeon is lying to us, knowing full well she hasn’t a plan to outmanoeuvre Westminster. If it’s the latter, she’s going about it all the wrong way.

      I said a long, long, time ago, the biggest threat to Independence through Constitutional assertion of Sovereignty is to spring it on an unsuspecting electorate who automatically assuming it’s cheating because Scotland is having a tantrum about not getting permission for a referendum.

      An assertion of Sovereignty needs to be confident, open and bold, and Unionists / Westminster given adequate forewarning that it’s coming, and time to find out that they have no lawful means to stop it. Scotland holds all the aces, and have more to gain being open and up front about it.

      When it comes to Sturgeon leading us anywhere, I have a gaping void where the trust should be. I cannot see her as anything except a massive liability. Simply getting us to a second IndyRef has been a damned disgrace these past 7 years, and she’s also given us an uphill gradient to winning it. I think we will win it, but absolutely no thanks to Sturgeon or the SNP.

    106. Ottomanboi says:

      Small wonder the agents of Biden régime seem to like Sturgeon, she plays their neo orwellian+ theme with technical skill.
      She might well find this playable too.
      https://off-guardian.org/2022/05/17/big-pharma-funded-paper-recommends-taxing-the-unvaccinated/
      +Orwellian denoted an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, disinformation, denial of truth (doublethink), and manipulation of the past, including the “unperson”—a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory. Neo orwellian is a tool of the e-information age and thus immeasurably more efficient.

    107. Republicofscotland says:

      This madness is getting out of control.

      A PETITION calling for non-binary to become an official gender is to be debated by MPs.

      “More than 10,000 Scots were among the 140,000 people who signed the petition to the UK Government which asked for non-binary to be made a gender identity on gender recognition certificates.

      People who are non-binary do not identify as men or women, and the term is used to encompass a range of gender identities that are not just “masculine” or “feminine”.

      The debate will be held next week at a petitions committee meeting.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20147731.petition-make-non-binary-official-gender-debated-mps%2F

    108. Republicofscotland says:

      “AN independent Scotland will follow the example of Sweden in joining Nato without having nuclear weapons, an SNP MP has said.”

      And like Sweden and Finland supposedly bastions of democracy, we too like the people of Sweden and Finland, won’t get a vote on whether WE want to be in the Great Satan’s (US) bullyboys club (Nato).

      I’m sure they’d be many Scots who don’t want to be a member of the warmongering gangster club.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20147939.independent-scotland-will-join-nato-like-sweden-snps-alison-thewliss-says%2F

    109. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      I would say the need to go a lot faster than NS has done is on the cards,
      With bill gates telling us there will be another virus in the next two years.
      And all those countries just signed up to bring Shanghi style lockdowns to all Citizens.
      Which jeremy hunt is on record in full favour of, and boris johnstone just signed Britain up to.

      The sovereign Scots People Convention has very limited time.
      A year maybe.

    110. Republicofscotland says:

      “NEWLY-NATIONALISED ScotRail has confirmed it will slash services by nearly a third from next week – just three days after providing a half price offer in a bid to get passengers back on trains.”

      This comes at a time when train drivers look as though they’ll go on strike. Network Rail is planning to cut at least 2,500 safety-critical maintenance jobs as part of a £2 billion reduction in spending, including hundreds north of the border.

      The Scottish Government is now in charge of the rail operator, which runs around 2,400 train services each day through an arms-length company ScotRail Trains Ltd, overseen by Transport minister Jenny Gilruth who blamed ex-Transport minister Derek Mackay for the ferries fiasco when it was the king of escaping VONC’s John Swinney who gave it the final nod.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fnews%2Fhomenews%2F20148432.ferry-fiasco-train-chaos-newly-nationalised-scotrail-slashes-services-third%2F

    111. Republicofscotland says:

      “THE Education Secretary has dropped a key government pledge to substantially eliminate the poverty-related attainment gap in Scotland’s schools by 2026.”

      “Shirley-Anne Somerville admitted that ministers had made slow progress before the pandemic and refused to set a new “arbitrary date” for completion.”

      Everything this unelectable clown is involved in turns to shite, she’s part of Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots clique so they’ll always be a job for this useless b&stard.

      “The Curriculum for Excellence education statistics figures for literacy revealed that 80.7% of primary pupils in the most affluent areas were at or above the expected standard, compared to 56% of those from the poorest backgrounds.”

      56% jeez oh, this colonial compliant self-serving administration has done severe damage to Scotland, yet the people of Scotland (the majority) still can’t see past it, looks like we haven’t reach the bottom of the ladder yet.

    112. Republicofscotland says:

      This is concerning in Sturgeon the betrayers new post-brexit Scotland.

      “AN INVESTIGATION has been launched into a “very unusual” spike in deaths among newborn babies in Scotland for the second time in just six months.

      The alarm was raised after 18 infants died within four weeks of birth in March, causing the mortality rate to breach an upper warning threshold known as the ‘control limit’ which signals a potential problem.

      The control limit was previously exceeded in September last year, when 21 neonatal deaths were reported.”

      The deaths are not Covid related.

      “What we do know is that it’s not neonatal Covid – the rates of Covid-19 infection in babies are very low and deaths from Covid are thankfully very, very small, so this isn’t Covid affecting babies.”

      In Sturgeon’s post-Brexit Scotland which promised would never happen, there is a shortage of hospital staff.

      “Earlier this week the Royal College of Midwives (RCM) warned that a survey of its members in Scotland found that half said they “rarely have enough staff to provide safe care”.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fnews%2F20137268.investigation-launched-amid-second-unusual-spike-neonatal-deaths-scotland%2F

    113. Stuart MacKay says:

      Breeks

      She didn’t just go to Washington D.C. for a friendly chat and some selfies. So while independence might not have been mentioned in any of the official transcripts you can be certain that it came up in any “informal” chats.

      The real answer of course would be found in who she talked to and who she didn’t. If it was just glad-handing a few nobodies at the Brookings Institution then it was an opportunity squandered.

      Maybe her handlers at the Clinton Foundation will let slip what really happened.

    114. robbo says:

      Oh Dear the Gers have lost on penalties. Better shut the churches and religious places or they’ll be burst tae the grrun!

    115. Mark Boyle says:

      Aaron Ramsey – worth EVERY PENNY from the Penny Arcade!

    116. Big Jock says:

      The Brits lost in Seville. Scotland can breathe once more. Couldn’t have been sweeter. Ramsay missing a penalty. C’mon Hearts!

    117. George Ferguson says:

      As a football fan I am always supporting Scottish teams in Europe if nothing else it boosts the Scottish Coficient to allow provincial teams to progress next year. And aids our National team to progress on the basis of our indigenous players meeting better opposition and is obviously going to improve our overall game. But .. Read the aforementioned comments
      And you expect to win Independence?

    118. Dorothy Devine says:

      Not a fan of of football but I hate games being one and lost on penalties . A team game becomes a one on one and some poor striker or goalie will be left getting the at best dirty looks and sent to Coventry or at worst getting threats from the ‘adoring fans’.

      They still did themselves proud getting to Seville so well done them.

      That said it is a bloody game and there are losers and winners in every game.

    119. Breeks says:


      George Ferguson says:
      19 May, 2022 at 12:16 am

      And you expect to win Independence?

      And what exactly is it you expect from draping yourselves in a Union Jack?

      You degrade yourselves flaunting the symbol and colours of Scotland’s humiliating exploitation, and expect nobody in Scotland to object because you know, …football!

      You can be as dumbfuck stupid and willfully blind as you want, you can embarrass yourselves if you like, but don’t expect thanks or gratitude from me for humiliating my Nation.

      For the immediate good of Scotland, I would put an end to the weeping sore of the Union which you celebrate and ram down a subjugated peoples throats. It’s that I have a problem with; there’s no need for Redcoat Recruitment Station in modern Scotland.

      I’m quite sincere is saying I really don’t give two fucks about your football team. I’d maybe cheer them on if they stood up for Scotland and enjoyed representing their country, but as they so often rejoice in reminding us, – they don’t.

    120. Robert Hughes says:

      Aye chants of ” WE ARE BRITISH ” and flags bedecked with Union Jacks – in another * innovation * flags wherein the Rangers badge is flanked by the the George Cross and Union Jack – hardly evoke sympathy for a * Scottish * team’s defeat .

      This may reflect a minority of the support’s ideology , but it’s a fairly substantial/vocal minority . Until that changes sympathy will be hard to come by

    121. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/qaenb

      Asked when the legislation for Indyref2 would be published, she waved away the question by saying it would emerge in the fullness of time.

      I keep checking the BTL comments on WGD to see if anyone has any doubts about the timing of Indyref2. There was nothing however I did spot this

      https://archive.ph/yyHQ4

      He said that any party that put English secession from the UK in its General Election manifesto would “win a smashing majority”.

      Maybe this is what Sturgeon is waiting for.

      Challenged online on what currency England would use, he said that it would continue to use the pound, and “I suspect that without all those subsidies it will be stronger and our credit better than now”.

    122. robbo says:

      George Ferguson says:
      19 May, 2022 at 12:16 am

      And you expect to win Independence?

      Aye George and “we’re up tae oor knees in fenian blood, surrender or ye’ll die” sung far and wide in Seville over the 3 days they were there. Gid luck getting a majority of them on board the Indy cause!

      Get a grip o yersel

    123. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/f6vSR

      Little Englanders to the rescue?

    124. Dorothy Devine says:

      Anyone who saw the coverage , did you see any saltires??

      I didn’t see any on the pre match so called STV news – all were union flags and union hats – must make Westminster grin from ear to loathsome ear.

    125. PacMan says:

      @ George Ferguson

      I don’t follow football but from I can gather, most of the certainly young support follow the ‘Ultras’ mantra. Sure, they’ll go through the motions of spewing the political rhetoric but they are more interested in causing chaos:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultras#Scotland

      I appreciate this is anecdotal but with my experience, some of the most vocal unionist supporters I have come across has been Chapel going/Celtic supporting Catholics.

      The independence argument is a lot less black and white than some would live you to believe.

    126. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/dHTkG

      Women almost twice as likely to be trapped in crashed vehicle, study finds Guardian May 2022

      “The EU is currently in the process of introducing new legislation, which for the first time will say that female car occupants must be as protected as male occupants – but the UK is currently not intending to adopt this,” she said. “I really hope that this kind of research will focus the minds of those in government who have the power to ensure that women are no longer disproportionately and needlessly injured and killed in the event of a car crash.”

      Before the UK could adopt this they would have to define what a woman is. Impossible to do anything for women if you don’t know what a woman is. This debate is about much more than just where transwomen go to pee.
      Caught short? Not a problem for transwomen:
      https://tinyurl.com/ycy64wuf

      https://archive.ph/OpYL6

      The deadly truth about a world built for men – from stab vests to car crashes Guardian 2019

      “When broadcaster Sandi Toksvig was studying anthropology at university, one of her female professors held up a photograph of an antler bone with 28 markings on it. “This,” said the professor, “is alleged to be man’s first attempt at a calendar.” Toksvig and her fellow students looked at the bone in admiration. “Tell me,” the professor continued, “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed?

    127. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/4Q6bC

      Anyone want to bet that before we have legislation about car test dummies & stab vests etc we have legislation about trans-inclusive knickers?

      https://tinyurl.com/ycy64wuf

      Must be tricky peeing like this if you have on a pair of
      ladies panties.

    128. Ruby says:

      PacMan says:
      19 May, 2022 at 8:37 am

      The independence argument is a lot less black and white than some would live you to believe.

      If David Hitchins is right it might not be something we need to worry about.

    129. Mark Boyle says:

      George Ferguson says:
      19 May, 2022 at 12:16 am

      As a football fan I am always supporting Scottish teams in Europe if nothing else it boosts the Scottish Coficient to allow provincial teams to progress next year. And aids our National team to progress on the basis of our indigenous players meeting better opposition and is obviously going to improve our overall game. But .. Read the aforementioned comments
      And you expect to win Independence?

      A wee reminder from Stu:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/why-scotland-doesnt-need-rangers/

      People who do not even like football hate Rangers because of the very real social poison they inject, what The Times (after the 2008 Manchester riot where they destroyed an entire city centre because a giant telly went on the blink) referred to as believing themselves to be part of some fantasy master race where one’s elevation is in direct correlation to the mulishness and thuggery one displays to society at large.

      It’s no coincidence that the club does its utmost to attract society’s dregs and appeal to their very worst instincts (esp. orange coloured kit items whenever their coffers need a massive cash injection). It is equally no coincidence it’s those in the upper echelons of society wishing to maintain the status quo which did their damnedest to ensure the continuation of its unnatural existence in 2012.

    130. Breeks says:

      PacMan says:
      19 May, 2022 at 8:37 am but they are more interested in causing chaos:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultras#Scotland

      …The independence argument is a lot less black and white than some would live you to believe.

      It really isn’t.

      These cretins only need to look at Sekt 82 football casuals from Ukraine, “football supporters” who were really far right Nazi thugs indulged by their inanely stupid government who adopted them into the Army as the Azov Battalion, who merrily burned people alive in Odessa and provoke the Russians to invade.

      Scotland doesn’t need these Brit-Nat fuckwits being indulged and flattered by a Unionist Westminster government, and I wish to fk people would stop pretending it’s all about the football.

    131. Willie says:

      Very hard luck for Rangers. They got so far, so close and it’s heartbreaking they lost on penalties. And I say this not as a fan of any particular football team.

      And the fans all seemed to have had a good time with both sides being ambassadors for what football supporting should all be about. Good natured rivalry in a shared sporting derby.

      The team and the fans can come back with their heads held high.

    132. Willie says:

      On a different thread it was absolutely fascinating to watch the Royal propaganda machine rolling out the tanks to quash the news that Prince William and Kate’s marriage was on the rocks.

      With news over recent months about repeated arguments and unhappiness about William playing away from home, the press pieces about Kate and the kids moving out in advance of old Queenie’s platinum jubilee celebrations must have come as wanted as a fart in a space suit.

      But infidelity, unsavoury sexual predilections, underage sexual relations, and failed marriages all wrapped up with lavish freeloading is the absolute hallmark tradition of the House of Windsor. All of course with the exception of her Majesty whose farts smell of roses.

      But no amount of Royal press corp tanks on the lawn can hide the tawdry tattered behaviours of this hereditary royal family. The truth is out and most of the subjects know it.

      A failed brand let us prepare for the incoming media jubilee celebration onslaught. Hard heads, ear defenders and bullshit deflectors at the ready.

    133. Republicofscotland says:

      Robert Hughes @7.58am.

      Yes Robert knuckledraggers galore in my home town of Glasgow yesterday draped in the Butchers Apron not one, and I mean not one draped in or carrying a Saltire which is also blue and white.

    134. sarah says:

      Christine Grahame doing a Margot Macdonald at Holyrood yesterday i.e. fervently stating that we MUST be independent.

      Is this a spark to light a flame that will spread along the SNP benches?

      Or is it just a chance taken whist Liz Lloyd and her helper Nicola Sturgeon are the other side of the Atlantic, and it will fizzle out on their return?

      Christine Grahame is 77 years old so not likely to sit again, nor to stand as Leader – successfully, anyway. So she might be prepared to stir things up meanwhile – if she can find any supporters, that is.

    135. Alf Baird says:

      PacMan @ 8:37 am

      “The independence argument is a lot less black and white than some would live you to believe.”

      Deid richt tae. And not very many international affairs academic journals have attempted to dissect the Scottish independence challenge, but here is one, and from the USA too.

      https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/spring-2022-2/

    136. James Che. says:

      Blm, football, transgender, rich/ poor, Scots/english, different religions, men/ women, vaccine/ anti vaxers, russia’s poodle/ russia’s enemy.

      They all have theme in common.
      To devide.

    137. Effigy says:

      I’m reading in the Guardian that Party Gate is over and Boris has not received another fine
      Quite unbelievable the lying Buffoon can get away with saying he didn’t know a party looked like dozens of his workers boozing and eating in his garden could be called a party?

      He was invited to it by e-mail and if he missed it then his private Secretary has to inform him about what is booked in for today and tomorrow.

      Will the Chief cover up cop now be the new Met Commissioner?
      Will Grey’s report still be readable after being allowed to turn yellow with age and covered in dust.

      The U.K. is as corrupt as any nation on earth.

    138. James Che. says:

      Politics and political parties,

      Choose which side you are on,

      Deviisions.

      Why do we let the leaders shi.. on us with these programmed well planned divisions.

      It is about time the pawns woke up.

      The whole way of our world is disintergrating.
      With very well made plans from the top.

      All you need is to focus on one question,

      Is it possible for all world wide goverments, to act in unison as stupid,
      I would say the odds were against it.

    139. James Che. says:

      Effigy,

      Aye just as I was saying,

      First BJ bad party goer,
      Now starmer bad party goer,

      Keeps the plebs and pawns occupied.

      While the reset, and depopulation takes place, crash capitalism, countries and peoples lives.

    140. James Che. says:

      There is so much failing in every country, as leaders all say the same thing by rearrangement of words, including NS.

      There is only one option for Scotland to avoid the strategies of these world summits.

    141. Breeks says:

      sarah says:
      19 May, 2022 at 11:23 am

      Christine Grahame is 77 years old so not likely to sit again, nor to stand as Leader – successfully, anyway. So she might be prepared to stir things up meanwhile – if she can find any supporters, that is…

      I once had very high hopes for Christine Graham…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ychGT4dslrU

      I still think she’s one of the good guys, and she’s certainly not alone in knowing about Scotland’s Constitutional position but apparently unable to make any headway with it.

      She was forthright about Megrahi’s conviction being unsafe, so that’s a plus mark too.

      On the one hand, I genuinely wonder to what extent the SNP “old guard” feel abandoned by Sturgeon’s SNP and it’s indifference to Independence. But on the other hand, they somehow put up with a lot of crap that I couldn’t.

      But if she is up for stirring the pot, then aye, good luck to her.

    142. James Che. says:

      There will come a time soon with food shortages and fuel shortages, and collapsed economies effecting your home, that people all over the world will have to dis- associate from their governments…….bad governance.

      I would like to see Scotland’s people make this move before NS and the devolved create the downfall of Scotland’s country.

    143. James Che. says:

      Some people only see 24 hours ahead,
      Others look for a tomorrow..

    144. James Che. says:

      Some only look 24 hours ahead,
      Others look for a tomorrow.

      Politics and political parties is a game of make believe.
      To make you believe you have a leader.

    145. John Main says:

      @Ruby says 19 May, 2022 at 8:53 am

      “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed?“

      Every man in a long-term relationship with a normal woman who gets near unbearable for a few days every month while she “has the painters in”.

      Surely I can’t be the only man who has ever had to cope with that?

      I bet that back in the old hunting/gathering days, most blokes made a point of being away hunting/gathering one week out of every four.

    146. Republicofscotland says:

      The new leader of the Labour group at Glasgow city council, an ex-leader who forced the recent one out, couldn’t attended his first council meeting because the die-hard Rangers fan was in Spain.

      Murdo Fraser (never directly elected) who refers to Rangers FC as the “Queens Eleven” was also in Spain, as was his tory party accomplice Dean Lockhart.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20150781.glasgow-city-council-labours-new-leader-george-redmond-in-spain-first-vote%2F

    147. Republicofscotland says:

      Don’t get me wrong I agree with Sheppard here, Westminster is a den of iniquity and a ball and chain to Scottish progress.

      However Sheppard another SNP MP trougher who talks a good game but in reality does f*ck all to forward the case for dissolving this rancid union, must know that his boss Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots has copied Westminster’s dodges, by redacting documents, telling inquires that they are lost or misplaced and blaming everyone else for her abysmal failures as FM.

      “THE Freedom of Information Act could be rendered “impotent” if the UK Government wins an appeal over its refusal to publish internal polling on the Union, the MP fighting the case has said.

      Tommy Sheppard, the SNP MP for Edinburgh East, has been embroiled in a battle with the Tory government over the release of the polling data since he first requested its release in June 2019.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20149190.uks-bid-conceal-union-poll-threatens-freedom-information-act-says-tommy-sheppard%2F

    148. Republicofscotland says:

      So according to Iain MacWhirter on FMQ’s today when asked about Sturgeon’s jolly to Washington DC to speak at the Neocon Brookings Institute (think tank). Nothing meaningful has come of it yet, accept Sturgeon declaring back home that Scotland must remain in Nato.

      MacWhirter stated that Sturgeon said that on the pretext of Scotland becoming independent that she would remove the nukes from Scotland, MacWhirter added that one of the corner stones of Nato membership is that if you are a Nato member you MUST allow nuclear weapons into your country if and when you are asked to do so.

    149. Republicofscotland says:

      SNP councillor Jacqueline McLaren is set to become Glasgow’s new Lord Provost.

      Three out of the last four Labour Lord Provosts for Glasgow attended that die-hard unionist shibboleth the University of Glasgow, the current head of MI5 ( who I’m ashamed to say is a Glaswegian) also attended the unionist uni.

      The John Smith Centre within the uni is a safe haven and staging post for unionist activities in Glasgow and Scotland.

    150. John Main says:

      Interesting news on Iain Lawson’s blog about the divergence of opinions between SNP and Alba on Scotland’s post-Indy hosting of nuclear weapons.

      Of course, this won’t gain me any friends on here, but I think the SNP is taking a more mature view than the idealistic, if not teenaged and immature, moral sanctimoniousness of Alba.

      Still, that old-fashioned “Scottish Exceptionalism” dies hard with some. In their mind’s eye, they see an Independent Scotland as being free, modern, rich, democratic and a moral exemplar. But despite being on that national pedestal, Independent Scotland will somehow or other have no enemies.

      In the real world, does not compute.

      One other consideration. The political leaders of other already free, modern, rich and democratic countries, such as the Baltic Republics, know that if Russia ever turns in their direction, they will disappear into some dungeon from which their corpses may eventually emerge. That tends to focus the mind, I would wager.

      I can’t blame NS for adopting that same focus. I am confident that if Alba ever get near power, the drench of icy cold reality down the backs of their necks will bring about a similar conversion. But meantime, they can lie, in the hopes of hoovering up a few more votes.

    151. sarah says:

      @ Breeks at 12.32: If I had known about Christine Grahame I would have included her in my trawl for MSPs/MPs/anyone willing to stand for Leader! She seems to have the right attitude and a fair amount of gumption.

      Is anyone on here a constituent of Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale and therefore able to contact her legitimately?

    152. Breeks says:


      John Main says:
      19 May, 2022 at 2:53 pm

      …. but I think the SNP is taking a more mature view than the idealistic, if not teenaged and immature, moral sanctimoniousness of Alba.

      Ha! Ha! Ha! … says the intellectual Colossus who calls every else a “skidmark”.

    153. Republicofscotland says:

      “Ha! Ha! Ha! … says the intellectual Colossus who calls every else a “skidmark”.”

      Breeks.

      Indeed, there are many countries around the globe that are not members of the bullyboy club Nato and have no nukes yet they manage just fine.

      Main has the whole world plotting to invade Scotland on the day its declares independence, what a bawbag.

    154. Ruby says:

      @Skid Mark Main

      I bet that back in the old hunting/gathering days, most blokes made a point of being away hunting/gathering one week out of every four.

      Aye right and the other three weeks they just got food out of their Smeg freezer.

    155. twathater says:

      @ Sarah and Breeks i’m sorry I don’t share your enthusiasm or belief that C Grahame is anything other than another HR trougher , I have watched her on numerous occasions on FMQ sitting behind sturgeon and nodding like the proverbial nodding DUG when sturgeon excretes anything , and BTW I am not referring to her illness , she has been in HR since the beginning and quite honestly like the rest of the morons WTF has she done to better Scotland or to advance indy
      TBQH I consider every one of them useless just like their counterparts the unionists , every one of them has and continues to BETRAY SCOTLAND and SCOTS

    156. twathater says:

      ALL you ever hear from the skidmark accusers is negativity , we canny dae this or we canny dae that , other countries will think this or dae that , if we don’t keep faslane or trident some banana country will invade us and r ape and pillage our trannies ,countries will refuse to even acknowledge our existence if we dare to change our franchise

      OOR constitution is shite , OOR CoR is shite , naebody anywhere listens or works with ancient constitutions or laws or maybe they dae but they’ll no work with Scotland’s cos it’s shite , ALL the negativity because we’re shite YET these skidmark accusers maintain they’re indy supporters , my arse

    157. Big Jock says:

      Thanks. You summed it up for me. The always support the Scottish team pish. Is total hypocrisy. Rangers only waive British flags and sing English songs. They are not Scottish by any definition.

      Breeks says:
      19 May, 2022 at 7:40 am

      George Ferguson says:
      19 May, 2022 at 12:16 am

      And you expect to win Independence?

      And what exactly is it you expect from draping yourselves in a Union Jack?

      You degrade yourselves flaunting the symbol and colours of Scotland’s humiliating exploitation, and expect nobody in Scotland to object because you know, …football!

      You can be as dumbfuck stupid and willfully blind as you want, you can embarrass yourselves if you like, but don’t expect thanks or gratitude from me for humiliating my Nation.

      For the immediate good of Scotland, I would put an end to the weeping sore of the Union which you celebrate and ram down a subjugated peoples throats. It’s that I have a problem with; there’s no need for Redcoat Recruitment Station in modern Scotland.

      I’m quite sincere is saying I really don’t give two fucks about your football team. I’d maybe cheer them on if they stood up for Scotland and enjoyed representing their country, but as they so often rejoice in reminding us, –

    158. John Main says:

      @Breeks says 19 May, 2022 at 4:39 pm

      “… says the intellectual Colossus who calls every else a “skidmark”.”

      Plenty of people on here I have not called a skidmark, Breeks. But why let the truth get in the way of a sarky putdown, eh?

      How’s the lying oor way to independence going for you then?

    159. John Main says:

      @twathater says 19 May, 2022 at 6:06 pm

      “some banana country will invade us and r ape and pillage our trannies ,countries will refuse to even acknowledge our existence if we dare to change our franchise”

      If an Independent Scotland joins the EU, the EU will expect us to abide with and conform to its norms. If that includes defence spending, a common foreign policy, common environmental policies, mutual aid pacts, etc. then Scotland won’t be getting any special exemptions.

      Of course we could give the EU a body swerve, but as so many of you BTL commentators are so keen to point out, EU membership is already baked in, seeing as how we “was dragged out against our will”.

      But you need to make up your mind, TwatH. Either an Independent Scotland is going to be rich and enviable, or it is going to be an economic basket case. If the latter, we will have nothing to make it worth anybody’s while to covet.

      Fact is though, the Indy cause keeps telling us it is going to be the former.

    160. John Main says:

      @Ruby 19 May, 2022 at 5:25 pm

      I’m guessing that in your family, the menfolk aim to be away hunting/gathering 4 weeks out of 4.

    161. twathater says:

      WOW “was dragged out against our will”.hello andy you’ve just given yourself away by making JOHN??? use one of your favourite sayings

    162. stuart mctavish says:

      Setting aside how many Scotland flags could have been anticipated had the (/any) other Scottish team made the final, the noticeable absence of Scotland flags in Seville raises a number of intriguing questions, among which:

      a) Was Bill Shankly wrong
      b) Do ALL members of the SNP prefer rugby
      c) Could the old club’s demise have been self inflicted by a unionist orange order, being certain of (b), with foresighted view to blaming everything from common cold to globo catastro teotwawki on Nicola Sturgeon
      d) Given previous FM flag waving at high profile events, what made the obligation to skip Seville and get wrapped in a more colourful flag chez (Carnegie Vanderbilt) Brookings Inst. more pressing..
      e) If good enough answer to (d), could real reason for Darling and Brown being cagey on currency first time around be a perceived global market (excl Russia?) for pink pounds/ tourism post teotwaki, hence apparent focus on seducing new Scots and soft noes from the Jimmy Hill loving diaspora
      f) Why were white flags being flown by fans of the other team

    163. ronald anderson says:

      A wee read for yous .
      yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/20/mia-sets-out-her-case-that-we-are-being-betrayed/?fbclid=IwAR3B9BWC8h43zOCTtN6QQOlvWwCWYLGF_cCHzeynyiJI6NK0EK88OJnJgEU

    164. Ottomanboi says:

      «Rangers did Scotland proud» chirps the FM, unionist flagged, sectarian and simian.
      Proud, such a promiscuous word.

    165. Graf Midgehunter says:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/20/mia-sets-out-her-case-that-we-are-being-betrayed/

      Just giving Ronnie Anderson’s link a bit of help.. 🙂

    166. Graf Midgehunter says:

      “f) Why were white flags being flown by fans of the other team”

      Eintracht has two main player’s kits, one is black/red, the other is white/black.

      In Europe they play mostly with white.

      It would have been nicer if they had played against a Scottish team instead of a “British” one..

    167. James Che. says:

      Twathater.

      I was not in wings yesterday much, so catching up on some comments,

      I like the summing up you did yesterday, 19th May 6: 6 pm.

    168. James says:

      “….one of the corner stones of Nato membership is that if you are a Nato member you MUST allow nuclear weapons into your country if and when you are asked to do so…..”

      Bollocks. Norway hasn’t got and won’t allow nukes.

      Scrap Faslane and get out of NATO!

    169. Ron Maclean says:

      Mia’s post (linked by Graf Midgehunter/ronald anderson 10:57am) raises many points needing open discussion.

    170. Republicofscotland says:

      James @2.32pm.

      MacWhirter’s emphasis was on not a permanent basis but that if need be the nukes must be allowed onto Nato soil. Now I’m quoting Iain MacWhirter from Thursday’s FMQ’s post discussion and taking him at his word.

      I’d be most grateful James if you would post the link countering MacWhirter’s point, remember the nukes are not permanent, but to be allowed on Nato members soil when need be.

    171. Republicofscotland says:

      Ron McLean @2.43pm.

      Mia is pointing out what many of us knew and indeed the Rev cottoned on earlier than most with his betrayer thread, that Sturgeon is a Thames House asset, a treacherous b*stard.

      Also not one, not one SNP MSP has broken ranks on why we’ve not moved one step closer to independence since 2014, with all the mandates given to the party by the people of Scotland.

      The same can be said for the majority of the SNPs MPs all spineless, gutless troughing b*stards, keeping their heads down and their mouths shut or actively participating in the keeping Scotland tied to and subservient to the union and Westminster.

    172. Breeks says:

      OT

      Does it make me a bad person if I giggled at this?

      https://oldweirdscotland.com/one-boot-in-the-grave/

      Aye, that’s Scotland for ye…

    173. James Che. says:

      Breeks.
      Maybe,

      When you consider how women are being treated in 2022.

      Just say something bad about the other kind of women and you can be thrown in prison or fined,
      Or women being treated to abuse by men and the other women kind.
      Mean while our leaders are refusing to identify a natural born women.

      How long before they falsely accuse women of witchcraft again.
      A slippery slope i would say.

    174. twathater says:

      A fascinating read related to Breeks post but about the post box war which EVEN upset PROUD SCOTS BUTS

      https://twitter.com/WeirdScotland/status/1494259720626003968

    175. Ruby says:

      Kicking a man in the balls! What a witch!

      You wouldn’t find a *woman doing something like that these days. Women are perfect all men are bastards.

      Do you agree?

      *adult human female.

    176. John Main says:

      @RepublicOfScotland

      Hey Repo, just reading about the split between SNP and Greens on NATO, nuclear weapons, etc. and it strikes me that you have been banging the wrong drum for years.

      You would be a lot more at home in the Greens. Looks like Ross Greer and you are in lockstep on all the moral whataboutery.

      Asked if it was “really the position of the Scottish Greens that Turkey behaves as badly to the Kurds as Russia is currently behaving towards the Ukrainians”, Mr Greer said: “Absolutely.”

      So long then, Repo. Drop us a PC to let us know how you are fitting in with your new pals.

    177. Republicofscotland says:

      So that old parasite lizzie saxe coburg-gotha aka windsor, has decided that Dunfermline, a ancient capital of Scotland, should now be classed as a city, and colonial Scots in Dunfermline think its great a foreign monarch has the powers to do so.

      Scotland is indeed f*cked.

    178. Republicofscotland says:

      Main @6.07pm.

      The SNP and the Greens are two-cheeks of the same arse, the Greens are such a debauched gender obsessed bunch of arseholes, that their beloved leader Patrick Harvey accepted the Ian Dunn Memorial award.

      Dunn in 1974 helped found (PIE) The Paedophile information Exchange. I wouldn’t touch that woke lot with a barge pole. Sturgeon the betrayer is singing from the same hymn sheet on the GRA nonsense as the Greens.

    179. Ron Maclean says:

      Republicofscotland @2:55pm

      ‘Mia is pointing out what many of us knew…’

      I’m not sure that many of us do know. There’s been endless speculation but no hard evidence. The key players must know but aren’t talking. That leads to more speculation.

      It’s not just Nicola Sturgeon. There are those in positions where they could influence outcomes who don’t seem to really want independence? They don’t even talk about it.

    180. Andy Ellis says:

      I see Mia has written her article again: “we wuz robbed” etc. etc.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/20/mia-sets-out-her-case-that-we-are-being-betrayed/comment-page-1/#comment-29779

      I suspect the majority in the movement will agree with William Ross in the BTL comments that Mia’s contribution is a conspiracy theory too far, even though they would reject his dated and long discredited GERS based “too poor” assertion that Scotland is a net beneficiary of the UK’s economic largesse.

      It’s pointless to try and fisk Mia’s assertions in detail: it would take even longer than her usual over-lengthy contributions, and simply generate more heat than light. Since the collapse of the indyref1 “big tent” it seems the various groups in the movement are largely talking past one another. We may all share the same ultimate goal, but that really seems to be about it these days. I’m certainly not sure for example that I could stomach campaigning shoulder to shoulder with SNP loyalists who still sanctify Sturgeon and actively support and even participate in the othering of folk who won’t accept the extremist TRA mantra of TWAW.

      Increasingly however I doubt I could in all conscience campaign with people I regards as cranks who buy in to the full-on conspiracy theorising “we wuz robbed, Scotland is a colony” narrative. I realise it’s a narrative that a small minority are absolutely convinced is true, but it has next to zero traction in the movement as a whole, still less amongst the total electorate.

      We weren’t robbed or betrayed people. There is no huge conspiracy.

      Clinging to such outlandish fake news won’t get us a scintilla closer to independence. The plain fact is we failed to make a slam-dunk case that the benefits of independence outweighed the risks in 2014, and continue to fail today, with even less excuse given current circumstances and the events of the past 7 -8 years. There is no grand external conspiracy to ensure Scotland remains in the union, simply a failure of nerve on the part of too many ordinary Scots.

      Those ordinary Scots aren’t going to be moved or convinced by conspiracy theories, by folk on the political fringes telling us Sturgeon has been “turned” by the unionist establishment, that we’re a colony or being flooded with “furriners” to deny us a majority for independence, or that an independent Scotland should be outside the EU, outside NATO and either not care about what’s happening in Ukraine or even actually accept the Kremlin’s view that they had it coming and the Russian Federation has a point. All these narratives will do is consign any chance of independence to the more distant future.

      We don’t need cunning plans or novel extra-parliamentary legal/constitutional routes to independence: we just need a majority in plebiscitary elections. That’s a far faster and more secure route to self determination than all the unproven routes some on the fringes of the movement insist would be better. They’re even less likely to happen than Sturgeon’s 2023 #indyref2.

    181. Stoker says:

      We already have The Daily Ranger (Daily Record). And the BBC in Scotland has always struggled to disguise their envy of it. Now all pretence has been thrown out by the BBC in Scotland. Their text service is rarely without some sort of story on *TRIFC these days but today sees 3 stories out of 10 being judged to be newsworthy for all of Scotland and more important than real news:

      UEFA apologises to Rangers fans left without water.
      Rangers fans pay tribute to Ibrox legend. (kit man Jimmy Bell)
      Rangers fan resuscitates tourist on bus.

      Yip! That’s your very important newsworthy news for today, Scotland. OH! And ‘The Betrayer’ has Covid. FLMAO
      __________

      BTW, i would just like to make a very special announcement. After many years of Werder Bremen being my favourite German team i’m now batting for Eintracht Frankfurt. Well if players can shift clubs i thought, why not! No better time than the present. 🙂

    182. Republicofscotland says:

      Agent Ellis @7.59pm.

      Mia is spot on with her article, Ross claims he was a die-hard SNP supporter aye right, anyway the evidence of Sturgeon’s action since she took over as FM on independence supports Mia’s article.

      I see the US begging Russia again for a ceasefire in Ukraine, so they can recoup, refuel, rearm and entice more mad dog mercenaries into the hostilities, incidentally the RF has established a good bridgehead in the Donbas and it won’t be long now until the AFU and their Nazi buddies are toast.

      For the record the Azov Nazi’s captured in the Azovstal, will stand trial in Russia (Nuremberg style) for war crimes and crimes against humanity. So dejected are the Nazi forces that the 3rd battalion of the 115th brigade of the AFU refused to go into battle near Severodonetsk.

    183. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 8.18 pm

      Mia’s assertions and evidence are two different things. I suspect they are two circles that rarely if ever intersect in the Venn diagram of life. Sturgeon’s actions – or indeed lack of them – are adequately explained by stupidity, lack of political judgement and a (to most of us) inexplicable fixation on extreme trans rights activism.

      I see you’re still uncritically regurgitating the Kremlin playbook. Your assertions are about as believable as Mia’s, only morally repugnant rather than just wrong headed. Both are however a threat to achieving the ultimate goal of independence.

    184. Republicofscotland says:

      Agent Ellis.

      Here ya go, with a Great Satan spin on it, but the US initiated the call, the Great Satan’s getting desperate.

      https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2022-05-19/milley-russia-general-military-talk-ukraine-war-6059037.html

      “Sturgeon’s actions – or indeed lack of them – are adequately explained by stupidity, lack of political judgement”

      Ha, ha I can sense your desperation in the above sentence, unbelievable doesn’t even cover it.

    185. Andy Ellis says:

      Putin’s Poodle.

      “Hanlon’s razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”[1] Known in several other forms, it is a philosophical razor that suggests a way of eliminating unlikely explanations for human behavior. It is likely named after Robert J. Hanlon, who submitted the statement to Murphy’s Law Book Two.[1] Similar statements have been recorded since at least the 18th century.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor#:~:text=Hanlon's%20razor%20is%20an%20adage,likely%20named%20after%20Robert%20J.

    186. Stuart MacKay says:

      I think there’s too much emphasis on Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP. Look further afield and you see the same level of jaw-dropping incompetence in the EU and the US State Department. Is von der Leyen a Putin operative because she’s pushed the Ruble to almost a 5 year high against the US Dollar? The only Shock and Awe being dished out right now is at the Gazprom Bank when they see all those billions pouring into their coffers at an increasing rate.

      Nothing exists in isolation. Sturgeon and the SNP are as much a product of the Western Neo-Liberals as they are a product of the sad state of politics and corruption in Britain. We won’t really be free of her or her successor until all the Klaus Schwabb wunderkind are cleaned out of their respective parliaments. Fortunately I don’t think we’ll have to wait long. Sanna Marin is finding out that not so pale, male and stale, Recep Tayyip Erdo?an is about to get her and her peers booted out of office in Finland.

      Once the “ever closer union” starts to unravel with food riots then there’s a real opportunity for change or at least the opportunity for a change in direction when people realise that the lackluster wannabes we have in the leadership of the various parties are simply not up to the task.

      God only knows what will replace them though. The talent pipeline isn’t exactly bursting. Maybe Farage and his Brown Shirts will sweep to power so we can test the resolve of the Claim of Right advocates.

      tl;dr; you won’t get rid of the SNP or the current leadership until neo-liberalism is dead and buried. You should be thinking how that process can be hurried along so hungry people don’t have to take to the streets.

    187. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart MacKay

      “Sanna Marin is finding out that not so pale, male and stale, Recep Tayyip Erdo?an is about to get her and her peers booted out of office in Finland.”

      Really? Says who…? Erdogan is an islamist nutter. There’s no way the other 29 NATO members are going to allow the anti-democratic, authoritarian, semi-detached NATO member like him to dictate terms, let alone stop Finland and Sweden joining. I suspect most NATO members would happily ditch Turkey in favour of Sweden and Norway.

      Either the Turks will be bought off with a few concessions, or slapped down and told to remember a large area of the SE of their country might fancy self determination and union with the Kurds in Iraq, Syria and Iran.

    188. Robert Hughes says:

      Excellent post Stuart . Totally agree , the problem/s run much deeper n much more complex than those personified by our misfortune in having shady wannabes like Stoogeon as * leader *

      Her and the rest of the characters in search of a plot that comprise the Independence ( ” by …. think of a date , any date , g’wan g’wan ) Industry are merely the symptom . The sickness is endemic , and appears to be turning necrotic .

      What’s that Green mantra again ? Right ….DON’T THINK – ACT GLOBALLY

    189. George Ferguson says:

      So what I have heard tonight? The Scot Gov are contesting the ICO decision 048/2022. They are contesting the decision on the basis of propionate information released. They have conflated SNP interest with the interests of a Scot Gov. Of course its not in the interest of the Scot Gov to release this information. Because it impacts on the SNP. The Court of Session has no answerable point of law. We will see. It’s getting worse.

    190. James Che. says:

      Mia,

      A sound analysis of long forgotten events by some people in Scotland,
      However one point in history you did not mention was the deliberately hidden from the Scots, that old Crone’s report.
      Manipulation and interference from the british governmernt to stem the tide of the independence Scotland.
      Those Whom claim that there is no interference can only be deliberately ignorant, or on the the other side.

      Stuart MacKay,
      Robert Hughes.

      Thumbs up to you both.
      Two people not looking 24 hours ahead.
      But looking what the next tomorrow is about to bring.

    191. McDuff says:

      Andy Ellis
      `we wasn`t robbed`.

      Oh yes we were.
      In the lead up to the referendum the entire MSM was given a 24/7 platform to relentlessly broadcast Unionist lies and scare stories(the VOW?? ) while the SNP were sidelined by comparison. Televised debates were made up of three unionist parties and the
      lone SNP with the pro independence Greens rarely seen. The audiences were also loaded with pro unionists which resulted in a tide of complaints and were surprise surprise ignored.
      If the above had been in favour of independence the outcome would have been very different.

      “there was no grand external conspiracy“.
      No?
      Given that Scotland with 5m pop and has had nearly 50 years of massive oil and gas revenue it should be filthy rich like Norway but it isn`t, so where has all the money gone? Scotland is a wealthy country and clearly cannot be allowed to leave. There is Trident and its removal and there is the land needed for England`s bulging pop, and of course the loss of a colony and subsequent prestige.
      Westminster did everything short of military action
      to keep us in the UK. Why? If as you say there is no external desperation to keep us in the Union why not give us a referendum instead of preventing one. Just think of the billions we winging jocks get in subsides and what it could do for the English taxpayer if we became independent. Surely Westminster should be encouraging us to leave. But the opposite is true. Why???
      Willie McRae, Alex Salmond, Mark Hirst, Craig Murray…all high
      profile independence supporters. No conspiracy there. No MI5 interference. Oh wait a minute, files released in 2007 confirmed MI5 spied on SNP.
      I could go on but what`s the point with someone whose post is a tad odd for one who supports independence. You are also very touchy about non Scots or as you patronisingly describe as `furriners` ( Scots don`t talk like that Andy).

    192. Effigy says:

      I recall that the U.K. had 36 Newspapers in circulation at Indy Ref 1.
      36 out of 36 were all supportive of Unionist propaganda.

      All major radio and TV Stations the same.

      Prof John Robertson, a leading expert on propaganda methods taught us how the BBC in
      particular Framed information to support the Unionist cause.
      A very great deal of time and money was spent to ensure every word was used to support Unionism.

      You may too remember that one of Westminster’s sinister groups threatened the Professor’s
      University in order to have him sacked, but let’s no focus on how corrupt and underhand the immoral bastards in Westminster actually are.

    193. Effigy says:

      Sturgeon has Covid.
      Now is the time to pool and share with the Tories!

    194. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Hi Effigy, The head of NuSNP and Nicola Cult CEO was bound to catch it sooner of later.

      I can’t help but wonder when she knew? I mean when she really suspected she had the symptoms?

      Was it BEFORE or AFTER she got on the plane with 300 passengers to fly back from America and spread her Covidiness with elderly and disabled passengers?

      Or was it BEFORE or AFTER she met and shook hands with/exchanged viral bugs with the Deputy Leader of Sinn Fein? She MUST have suspected as the announcement that Scotland’s First Tractor Minister had Covid was within just 5 hours of her much desired photo-op with Sinn Fein.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61530974

      I have always wished folk well in these circumstances. All my life and no matter what animus may have happened. But it is a REAL struggle to wish the chief tractor driver who sold Scotland’s chance to govern itself down the river. Lest we or the NuSNP Cultists ever forget…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61530974

      Hopefully, Auld Nick was handing out her CV at the United Nations promiscuously touting for a job over there when she is eventually booted out from any political office over here.

    195. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Link problem in last post.

      Sturgeon’s true colours, lest anyone ever forget…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/

    196. Robert Hughes says:

      McDuff @ 12.33

      Quite so .

      It defies belief that some – ostensible – Independence supporters , despite knowing the massive forces that were marshalled against the YES vote in 2014 – are insisting , indeed saying there is some kind of moral obligation ( LOL ! ) to repeat exactly the same mistake again in the event of another Referendum .

      Yes , let’s fail again , let’s * fail better *

    197. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robert , I think it’s ‘fail more’ not ‘fail better’!

      So Ms Sturgeon has become a ‘super spreader” How many of her entourage have also fallen to the plague?

    198. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Serious question:-

      Would Scotland be better served if the corruptly governed Scottish Executive AND the Holyrood Parliament were CLOSED for at least 8 years to test whether to make this closure permanent?

      Before anyone jumps on my head or shouts insults, think about this please?

      We are governed by an entirely corrupt First Minister, the malevolent Sturgeon and her cult who tried to jail her friend and mentor Alex Salmond with her corrupt use of false perjured malicious prosecution.

      We are governed by a Scottish Executive that JAILED Craig Murray, but did NOT jail Kirsty Wark or any other Sturgeon friends who committed far worse contempt of court than (allegedly) Craig Murray.

      We are governed by a CPS that is at best, known as the Clown Prosecution Service and has lost all credibility.

      We are governed by a police force that cannot bring to justice the thieves who made off with £600,000 money under CLANDESTINE POSSESSION law by the Murrell’s NuSNP. Corrupt senior cops have accepted the “woven into accounts” lies as gospel.

      We are governed by a lying tractor of a First Minister who has BURIED SIX MANDATES TO HOLD INDYREF2.

      We are governed by a Scottish Executive that has SQUANDERED a billion pounds in operating subsidy and malfeasance squandered a quarter billion pounds in newbuild ferry subsidy.

      This list since the betrayer Sturgeon infected the Scottish Exec with her twisted Woke captured cult and criminal disregard for the law goes on and on.

      I voted YES for IndyRef1.

      I repeatedly voted Alex Salmond SNP.

      But the current overpaid, over-promoted bunch of ineffectual MSPs and MPs are a HUGE drain on taxpayer funds.

      The Holyrood contingent cannae run a banana boat up the Clyde. Literally and in reality.

      Given all of the above and more is, in fact true, surely the BEST and logical thing for Scotland is to get rid of Sturgeon and her corrupt cabal?

      The most effective way to do that is close down the Scottish Exec., AND Holyrood?

      It is highly likely that IF a referendum to CLOSE DOWN the current corruptly governed NuSNP is held, then…

      51% and more WILL vote to close down Holyrood and the Scottish Exec.

      Especially if we sunset clause this closure. Say close the wretched place for 8 years to see whether the Scottish Exec., and Holyrood would be missed?

      There will be a LOT of noise in opposition, but the actuarial numbers would indicate that a CloseNicola Down referendum would deliver the end of that wretched excuse of a politician. She is an imposter First Minister and must go before she destroys Scotland

      In 8 years Scotland would be better governed by the southern set of Amadans rather than the current highly corrupt infestation of northern Amadans.

      IF the good people of Scotland wanted to reinstate Holyrood and the Scottish Executive, there could be a statutorily included SECOND referendum in 8 years on whether to make the closure permanent or re-open Holyrood and the Scottish Executive.

      As our Rev Stuart Campbell said in the header of this thread, at the current time…

      SCOTLAND IS LOST.

      We need to think better than the current outmanoeuvred NuSNP and their compromised thieving leadership.

    199. Ottomanboi says:

      «Sturgeon has covid»
      «Sturgeon fights for independence»
      The above colourful books are recommended for ages 3 to 5
      Amazon verified purchase review «lovely, very easy to wipe clean».

    200. Andy Ellis says:

      @McDuff 12.33 pm

      Having a partial and unbalanced media doesn’t equate to being robbed. If an overwhelmingly unionist MSM was as central as conspiracy theorists insist, then why did support for indy go up around 20% from 2012-14? If anything, the fact that there wasn’t – and indeed still isn’t – any significant pro independence media (the National is effectively an SNP comic so hardly counts) simply demonstrates again that Scots have failed to develop their own media. There’s nothing to stop Scots changing their media landscape if they want to, just as there’s nothing ultimately to stop them putting a cross in a box to become independent. Blaming the failure in 2014 on media bias is a cop out.

      The external factors you’re referring to don’t support Mia’s fervid imaginings about a grand conspiracy: they’re just facts on the ground. Trident exists, and it’s currently situated in Scotland. The only way to change that is for Scots to grow a pair and tell the UK government to remove it. Similarly with North Sea oil: it’s been a debating point since the 197-‘s that is “our oil”. If Scots had any gumption they’d have ensured that there was an oil fund, but it never happened. Again, the ones to blame for that aren’t “foreign others” it’s our own population and their supine lack of ambition.

      A referendum was agreed in 2014: perhaps it passed you by? Many – including our Catalan friends – envied the ease with which Salmond negotiated the terms, and the fact Westminster didn’t follow the Madrid precedent. Many British people are attached to the concept of the union, and that in itself is enough for most of them to want it to continue. Remember, most of them are convinced that they subsidise us: they don’t really believe an independent Scotland would prosper.

      However, there are also plenty of folk in the rest of the UK who would happily vote for English independence if they were given the chance. It’s doubtful the britnat elite would go for that though: they do see value in the UK as a project. Once again however, that doesn’t equate to there being some grandiose conspiracy.

      There is no selfish interest in London for keeping Scotland in the union against its will, but they’re not necessarily going to roll over and surrender to every demand from Holyrood either. At present, the biggest obstacle to #indyref2 isn’t Westminster, it’s the SNP government: they could and should have put the question of whether #indyref2 without a S30 order was “legal” beyond doubt years ago by testing it in court. The fact they didn’t do so and cleave to the Gold Standard S30 sanction is the fault of OUR government in Scotland, not British nationalists. Plebiscitary elections are the answer as many have argued: again, the responsibility for not using them lies with us, not London.

      You may have missed the irony in the “furriners” remark. I even put it in quote marks to signpost it. you must be a hoot at parties. As for your parting shot, what is it with some folk who snidely assert that because someone disagrees with them, they can’t really be an independence supporter, or at least not a REAL one, or indeed that they are an MI5 plant, or a closet yoon or a Sturgeonite devolusionist? Is that really the best counter argument you can muster? Good luck persuading “soft No” voters to switch side with an attitude like that!

    201. Robert Hughes says:

      Dorothy D

      I was quoting Mr ( Sam ) Beckett , but , aye , ” fail more ” is probably more accurate in this context .

      Al-Stuart .

      Inclined to agree , but even if such a vote of No Confidence ( in Sturgeon/NSNP ) campaign could be mounted , how many would join it , given the sheep-like nature of a large % of overall YES supporters ?

      Otto

      LOL . * Nota Bene * Such colouring-in books MUST be demonstrably LGBQUERTY acquiescent . Invisible ink only 🙂

    202. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Hughes 6.54 am

      “It defies belief that some – ostensible – Independence supporters , despite knowing the massive forces that were marshalled against the YES vote in 2014 – are insisting , indeed saying there is some kind of moral obligation ( LOL ! ) to repeat exactly the same mistake again in the event of another Referendum .”

      The overwhelming majority of independence supporters appear to support the current SNP. Them’s the facts! However much those of us who don’t support the SNP might wish it was different, we’ve signally failed to persuade the movement that moving away from a S30 “Gold Standard” #indyref2 on the same pattern as #indyref1 would be the best option. Are all these people only “ostensible” independence supporters Robert?

      You may regard yourself and those who agree with you as the keepers of the flame and the only true independence supporters, but what are you actually going to do to change all their minds and deliver independence by a different route, and when will it happen? It appears to be a common theme in here and in certain other forums to confidently assert that anyone who doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories and the cop out “Scotland as colony” mantra is either not a real independence supporter or must themselves be part of the conspiracy. I even had Gareth Wardell label me “English Ellis” for having the effrontery to disagree with him.

      So much for the 2014 “Big Tent”. Perhaps all believing in the same ultimate goal is no longer enough, but isn’t the task to convince as big a majority as possible to support independence? We may never reach the heady heights of Norwegian support for their independence vote in 1905, but is punting ridiculous conspiracy theories and blaming everyone and everything except our own lack of resolve really going to help us reach a majority, or 60% or even more?

      It doesn’t take a genius to see that despite all these massive forces marshalled against us in 2014 we came surprisingly close to winning. We’ve basically stalled since. If there was a huge appetite for doing something differently, I think we’d know about it by now. Perhaps that will change when Sturgeon fails to deliver a 2023 referendum, perhaps it won’t. It’s still a big task to persuade the majority to support plebiscitary elections as an alternative route, and I’d wager even harder to get them to accept any of the various cunning plans to use some novel non-parliamentary legal/constitutional route.

      I’m definitely open to persuasion about such an alternative, but I have lots of questions as would most other folk….and that’s the $64,000 question isn’t it? How are you going to convince them, and how long is it going to take?

    203. Stuart MacKay says:

      Andy Ellis

      I’m sure the EU states would want to see the back of Turkey however their military is larger than the militaries of France, Germany, UK and Italy combined. Not so easy to get rid of, despite all the tough talk about boosting budgets and rearming.

      In any case we might see it happen. Cutting off your nose to spite your face seems a particular gift of the political elites in Europe. One possibility is that NATO and the EU merge with some trimming around the edges.

      The other possibility is that the expansion of NATO into the Pacific region might wake a few people up to the fact that the so-called defensive organisation has finally let the mask slip and is preparing for a large and extremely bloody war with China. With that I’m sure a few members might reconsider their commitment to sending their sons and daughters to the other side of the planet to be slaughtered in furthering the aims of the neo-cons in Washington D.C.

      Marin is incompetent but the Swedes are simply stupid. France will ensure that Groupe Dassault will triumph over Saab when it comes to defence procurement. The Swedes will be throwing away their neutrality for very little in return. it might seem like a good idea now but throwing themselves in to NATO just gives the Americans a couple of more battlefields to play in.

    204. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart MacKay 9.32 am

      Turkey has chosen its path, and it seems to be one outside of the EU. As you rightly observe that will make most in the EU pretty happy: the French were always dead set against, and it was only really the UK and some of the smaller states who agreed with the pre-brexit UK aim of making the EU a wider not deeper union that supported Turkish membership. Erdogan’s islamism and authoritarianism has shown that “his” Turkey will never sit comfortably in the EU. Either that will continue or at some point the Turkish army will step in again to protect the secular values of Kemalism….though it may already be too late for that.

      Ukraine has shown that the Russians have had trouble taking on a relatively much smaller, relatively badly equipped but determined enemy. They’re in no real position to pose a threat to NATO, except in the doomsday scenario of provoking a nuclear conflict. Perhaps the current crisis will result in strategic changes: Putin’s war has certainly backfired on him. It’s strengthened both NATO and the EU, ensured NATO membership goes up (Sweden, Finland and probably Moldova and Georgia, possibly even Ukraine once the Russians are defeated), and pushed the Europeans to get serious about their own defence.

      If we want to be less reliant on the USA and free to take a different path on foreign policy, then the growth of an independent European based security dimension would be welcomed by many if not most in Europe. That’s the way to avoid becoming entangled in wars on the other side of the world, although the prospect of a deeply repugnant regime like China’s having free reign to invade Taiwan, dominate SE Asia and perhaps Central Asia isn’t one any sensible democrat should view with equanimity. Let the USA, Japan, S. Korea and Australia worry about China. We have enough on our hands here.

      I don’t know enough about Marin to know if she’s incompetent, but the fact is NATO membership has quickly become overwhelmingly popular in both countries. I don’t see that changing. People have been writing the epitaph of Saab for a while, but it hasn’t happened yet. Perhaps it will be swallowed up by one of the conglomerates like Airbus, Boeing, Dassualt or BAE Systems, perhaps not.

      Their former neutrality meant the Swedes have always been pretty adept at striking a balance between developing and building critical systems at home and “buying in” where it made sense. It would undoubtedly have been cheaper and quicker for them to buy US, French or British jet fighters for example, but they chose to invest in building their own, which had benefits as well as disadvantages: the Gripen has also been sold to a number of foreign air forces in preference to Dassault products.

      I certainly don’t accept that Swedes or Finns are stupid for deciding to join NATO. I think they’ll be a huge asset, and it does potentially help in the process of promoting a more independent European defence identity and common foreign policy. I’d have thought a lot of folk critical of US policy and perceived US dominance would welcome that?

    205. James Che. says:

      You know if the unionist side were genuine in offering a choice in 2014,
      They would have kept there media paid mouths shut and not interfered,

      But we had interference from many quarters including foreign politicians standing along side the unionist while visiting our politicians down south, whom were encouraged on tv to stick in their opinion penny’s worth.

      Then we had cameron and the queen,
      The list large and is endless.

      As to being colonised.

      We are not even allowed our own broadcasting network.
      Nearly 50% of Scots are captured against their will, asking and begging England to be released.
      If its not colonial,
      the only other words for it is CAPTIVE HOSTAGES, people being held against their will,

      Now if around 50% of Ukrianians were held hostage,
      One would send in Nato,

    206. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘Voices for peace find it hard to be heard at a time like this, but that only means we must raise our voices.’

      From robinmcalpine.org The Worlds to Come: Part One

    207. James Che. says:

      In fact we (ole blighty) often send a military force’s into any old country to rescue it from oppression
      Then we usually instigate a regime change in that country and then plunder it resources under treaties.

      Oh Wait……..

    208. Breeks says:

      Al-Stuart says:
      21 May, 2022 at 8:23 am

      .
      Serious question:-

      Would Scotland be better served if the corruptly governed Scottish Executive AND the Holyrood Parliament were CLOSED for at least 8 years to test whether to make this closure permanent?

      Can I do a Captain James T. Kirk on you? A 3rd Option is available in a no-win scenario.

      Just bypass Holyrood, leave it completely out of the equation, build a new YES Campaign around a Constitutional challenge to UK Sovereignty and the legality of Scotland’s Brexit, and use a People’s Sovereign Convention to drive the Test Case at the UN, and orchestrate a MASSIVE public petition that big enough to be interpreted as a sovereign mandate / majority.

      I would bet Westminster would very quickly remember the right laxative to grease the wheels of democracy and give Scotland a gift wrapped IndyRef, but it would be just as thoroughly compromised and dishonest as the last one.

      If Westminster can treat Holyrood as a sub-sovereign domestic mechanism that administers to Devolution, then quid pro quo, so can a People’s Sovereign Assembly. No need to close it.

      If a tree falls in the forest and there’s nobody there to hear it…

    209. Breastplate says:

      Ellis,
      You are completely delusional, you accuse others of believing the “Kremlin playbook” simultaneously parading your own gullibility in believing Western propaganda.

      As I’ve said here before, Russia is lying about Ukraine, the USA is lying about Ukraine and your dear old UK is lying about Ukraine.

      As usual, we won’t get any truth from people who are trying to shove a narrative down our throats.

      In essence, Ellis, you are an imbecile who thinks he’s right about everything, you evidence this every time you stab out something on your spittle flecked keyboard.

      Ellis, this message isn’t really for you but to sympathise with others who have to wade through your literary excrement.

    210. Breeks says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      21 May, 2022 at 11:17 am

      ‘Voices for peace find it hard to be heard at a time like this, but that only means we must raise our voices.’

      From robinmcalpine.org The Worlds to Come: Part One

      It’s very difficult coming to substantive conclusions about the state of play in Ukraine because the Western media seem determined to quash the Russian narrative, but I am cautiously optimistic that all the relevant parties seem to be focussing on “mini” goals which afford them an opportunity to save face while they change strategy.

      I don’t believe the Russians have had it all their own way, but nor did they have any serious interest in occupying all of Ukraine, so as things change on the ground, one man’s “withdrawal” is another man’s “retreat”.

      The Russians have Mariupol taken, Ukraine has it’s Alamo, and both can claim the de-Nazification box ticked, and with a measure of diplomacy, the shooting war might give way to peace and diplomacy over prisoner exchanges… but that’s very early days. I think prisoners will be pawns for many years.

      I think the same is true for Finland and Sweden joining NATO, where Russia responds by cutting off the gas and building more bases. It’s a return to Cold War style carrot and stick stuff, which is utterly retrograde, but better than a shooting war.

      The tension now is whether the de-escalators have more influence than the warmongers. The last I saw of Zelensky, he was mulling over a neutral Ukraine… which suggests a de-escalation of hostilities may be on the cards. Fingers crossed, though there’s a hint of Sturgeon about him, in the sense that somebody else is pulling his strings.

      The Russians last week were boasting about the deployment of their BTR-T Terminator units, but why such a public announcement… unless it’s posturing?

      I THINK everybody is looking for a way out of this. If sense prevails, we should hope they all find it.

      Hopefully someone tells Liz Truss to shut up.

      https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-21/liz-truss-wants-moldova-equipped-to-nato-standard-to-guard-against-russia

    211. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breastplate 11.49 pm

      Top straw manning there bud. I’ve never said I accept western propaganda, or that I’m prepared to uncritically accept everything presented by western media. It’s quite a leap from there to accepting the narrative being punted by some in here. If if you’re not a full-on Putinista, you have to be a special kind of stupid to accept the narrative that the Ukrainians “had it coming”, or that Ukraine was in need of de-militarisation or de-nazification. There is no moral equivalence between western liberal democracies and the regimes in Russia and China. You and others are free to insist otherwise, but at least have the self awareness to understand that your beliefs are shared by only a small minority of Scots, whether pro-or anti independence.

      Inchoate screeching about the “Great Satan” and whataboutery about the sins of our colonial pasts, slavery, and more recent failures isn’t going to advance the cause of independence one iota: indeed it will do quite the opposite.

      Facts are chiels that winnae ding as the saying goes. However much the fringe of Putinista’s, nativists and sophomoric Wolfie Smith types don’t like it, the mainstream of the movement are firmly multilateralist, pro EU, pro NATO. They’re very unlikely to find an indy prospectus which involves being outside NATO, outside the EU attractive, or being in the company of such beacons of liberty as North Korea, Eritrea, Syria and Belarus fluffing for Russia being misunderstood and having legitimate concerns about the “Great Satan”.

      As for your comments about my output, I’ve yet to see anything from you which addresses any of the issues. No great change there given the standard of discourse in here from the Putinista Massive and the small minority of apologists soiling the independence movement of course. Being on the wrong side of history is tough of course, but you and others who think like you definitely are.

    212. Ottomanboi says:

      ANDY ELLIS.
      Kemalism was never truly secular. The model was a French style «laïcité» which In effect nationalized the religious sphere. Mosques were state, not religious, property, imams and mullahs became state employees and subject to vetting. Friday sermons are still subject to occasional scrutiny.
      Essentially Kemalism was concerned with forging, by force, of a Turkish national identity as against the Ottoman which was ethnically, linguistically and politically very mixed. The nearest example in Europe was Austria-Hungary.
      Kemalism had the consequence of cutting Turkey off from its cosmopolitan past. New alphabet, new head gear, new Turk. It has patently failed, as all ultranationalist projects are inelluctably bound to.
      Erdo?an wishes to re establish cultural links with the Turkic peoples of the east, as far as Xinjiang. He is playing a long game but so are Putin in east Europe and Xi in the Chinese spheres of influence.
      It’s the Great Game #2 with new characters. The Brits and Americans have little to offer here.
      The people who understood the game have long gone from their diplomatic services.

    213. Ron Maclean says:

      “In war, truth is the first casualty.” Aeschylus

    214. Confused says:

      this is funny
      https://twitter.com/i/status/1527092111195226114
      – not for iraqis, but white mans burdern and all that

      putin/russia was in the crosshairs for a long time
      https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdf
      – the rand corporation are not the usual cheap propagandists, mostly full of scientists, their customer is the us govt, who want to know what is going on, and “options”.

      lying bastards, gonna lie
      https://dissidentvoice.org/2022/05/the-british-art-of-black-propaganda/

    215. Confused says:

      thumb nail book reviews

      dense history; MI6 aren’t very good, their only successes were “walk ins”
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/MI6-Written-Publisher-Schuster-Paperback/dp/B00SLTN4CS
      – funny story : MI6 runs a virulently anti british arab nationalist radio station (the idea being to divert the discourse at some crucial moment) – it becomes highly counter productive so it is suggested it be shut down – NO – as “it is one of the few operations THAT MAKES ANY MONEY” !

      stay behind networks; “dad’s army”; political subversion and psychological warfare
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gladio-Natos-Dagger-Heart-Europe/dp/1615776885
      – train station bombings the weekend before a general strike; commmies blamed, italian eurocommunism discredited
      – mind bogglingly complex shenanigans in greece
      – a novel candidate/angle in the JFK murder

      how to conquer the world, and make the conquered pay for it all
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/3981826094
      – russia and china together are trying to stop this scam, the empire desperate to keep it running

    216. James Che. says:

      The parallels between other oppressed countries, subversive tatics, msm propaganda, a gathering of politicians all singing the same tune, ensuring leadership change.
      Changing the laws of countries to be overtaking,
      Banning national dress or language,
      Banning freedom of speech with threats of imprisonment.
      Changing societal structures to break it up.
      Other countries over seeing the elections.
      Years of oppression and suppression.
      And as a last threat, a charge of the right thought brigade to beat you to surrender, if towing the line is not happening,

      How is the treaty working Scotland.
      Scottish teachers are being told not to show school children people in kilts…… source,sky news.

    217. James Che. says:

      Scotlands people are under a regime change.
      No doubt about it,

    218. James Che. says:

      I personally think that if Scotland was already independent We would have thrown The wicked witch and the green goblins out on their ears by now,
      Something akin to what Icelands women did to bankers.

    219. Dan says:

      Scottish virtue signalling politicians ecstatic as Scotland’s re-wilding process forges ahead of schedule…
      …due to many of the indigenous natives not being able to afford the increased prices of petrol or electricity to run their lawnmowers.

    220. Dan says:

      Soz Stu for moderation hold.

      After outbidding locals on the extortionately priced housing market, White Nimby 5ettlers are outraged after de-camping to beautiful Scotland only to find their neighbour’s garden are like overgrown jungles…

      FFS, over 200 grand for a wee poorly insulated 2 bed cottage and garden the size of a postage stamp (cheap to mow though!), with heehaw local job coming anywhere near paying enough of a salary for that sort of mortgage.

    221. James Che. says:

      Dan,
      Land tax on area basis, is the best method I know, to stop large tracts of Scotland being used as a tax evasion and large comglomerates owning most of Scotland.
      And equivielant two taxes if it is a second home,
      This will give Scots a chance to buysome of their own country perhaps.
      At least they will not want to keep on paying for a large amounts of lands each year,

    222. Dan says:

      Aye, maybe the idea of a Land Tax / Annual Ground Rent policy is something Alba could consider seeing as Graeme McCormick’s plan doesn’t seem to be making much if any headway within the current SNP.
      And especially if such a plan incorporated a UBI element which would assist in getting folk out of poverty due to the current stasis.
      Some Alba politicians have made much of this poverty aspect some are unfortunately currently enduring, so let’s see if those within the Party have the gumption to come up with and propose to implement something which actually serious alters the dire situation for the longer term, rather than just sticking plasters for the current failing setup.

    223. sarah says:

      @ Dan and James Che: Graeme McCormick has been battling away for years with his Ground and roof area tax. I went to a Zoom presentation by him which Kate Forbes also attended – from memory she didn’t jump enthusiastically at the idea but I can’t remember why that was.

      I think it is worth doing especially as it is something we wouldn’t need to contact Westminster about – it is entirely within our control.

      I like the idea of UBI as well. I can’t see any downside to that at all.

    224. Dan says:

      @ Sarah

      Jist for bantz… At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what you, James, or I think, we’d really have to get the nod from Ellis on the viability and implementation of such a policy before anything could be done, because he knows what goes in the minds of Scots.

      Hey Andy, as per a previous convo from a while back, did your inlaws make the move up to Auld Reekie and become NuScots yet?

    225. Dan says:

      A good read picked up from Grousebeater’s twitter feed.

      https://johnsmytheinvestigations.wordpress.com/2022/05/20/judith-mackinnon-phoning-it-in

      Potentially a site to follow for Voices for Independence site Stuart MacKay?

    226. wullie says:

      James Che. says: at 5.59
      This will give Scots a chance to buy some of their own country perhaps..

      Just a thought James. If its our country why do we have to buy a bit of it. If it is ours then it can’t belong to someone else that we have to buy a bit from. And if someone has huge chunks of our land where did they get it from.

    227. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dan

      I did think of adding the John Smythe site but it seems it’s an outlet for material against Sturgeon in the Salmond Conspiracy. While I’m an Alba supporter, Voices is notionally neutral with obviously heavy biases. As a result I’ve steered away from including it for the time being.

    228. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/4v3Dq

      As you were…. The starting gun’s another water pistol.

      Is it being too cynical to predict another SNP whip-round starting in 5…, 4…, 3…, 2…

    229. Dorothy Devine says:

      Breeks , they’re getting nothing from me – given before and been more than a tad disappointed by the outcome. As for the wee piece in the National, trumpet blowing , rally the troops drivel.

      I am wondering whether her covid is the equivalent of a Johnson fridge.

    230. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Is it being too cynical …. ” . No , any utterance by The Shite Pretender deserves only cynicism . I didn’t bother reading this latest bit of kidology .

      The only thing I want to read from her is her resignation letter

    231. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 7.59 pm

      1) “At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what you, James, or I think, we’d really have to get the nod from Ellis on the viability and implementation of such a policy before anything could be done, because he knows what goes in the minds of Scots.”

      If you’ve got any evidence which point to what I’m saying being wrong Dan, let’s hear it. Doubtless if there were polls showing that the Scots were anti-NATO, anti-EU or that they agreed with skid marks in the movement like Putin’s Poodle that the Ukrainians had it coming, and that Vlad is just misunderstood and quite entitled to mount a Special Military operation, you and others would be shouting the results from the rooftops. I happen to think Land Value Taxes and UBI are definitely worth pursuing.

      The chances of the devolusionists in the SNP doing anything about them – even doing a large scale trial which I seem to remember being talked about in Finland some time ago for UBI – is about as great as #indyref2 happening in 2023, or Sturgeon telling us that trans women are not actual women.

      The thing is Dan, much as it gives the hard of thinking in here a chuckle to assert that I think I know everything, or that what I’m saying doesn’t represent the views of the overwhelming majority even though they never present any evidence to show the widespread support for their fringe nutter views, it isn’t me as an individual they have to convince. I’m just some guy on the internet. I’m an Alba party member, but I’m not standing for any office nor do I have any influence other than discussing issues on line or talking to folks.

      It’s not me those punting fringe views have to convince, it’s the majority of Scots in the movement and some currently outside the movement, that their narratives are right. How do you think that’s going? Have you noticed a big upsurge in folk saying they are anti NATO, anti EU, pro indyref franchise restriction and pro Putin? I certainly haven’t. More to the point, if people felt strongly about such issues, wouldn’t we see the results in voting patterns and in polling evidence?

      I know it triggers some of the usual suspects in here, but pointing out their views are held and supported by vanishingly few in the movement remains the case however much they deny it. Of course they could always crowd fund a poll to put the matter beyond doubt, or perhaps persuade Rev Stu to do so. I’ll happily accept I’m wrong when the evidence comes in. Over to you…..

      2) “Hey Andy, as per a previous convo from a while back, did your inlaws make the move up to Auld Reekie and become NuScots yet?”

      Yes thanks Dan. I wonder if they’ll be “allowed” to vote if the nativists get their way? Be a shame if the movement lost two persuadable voters if the moon howlers get their way huh? Mind you given the current prospects, they’ll probably qualify for a vote by dint of length of residence, unless the real extremists get their way and set the qualification at something ridiculous like 10 or 15 years as they’re getting on a bit.

    232. John Main says:

      @Sarah 21 May 6:50 pm

      Disadvantages of a UBI.

      1) Given a UBI, what incentive is there for anybody to do difficult, unpleasant or dangerous jobs? The only answer I can come up with is far more money. So as well as finding the cash to pay UBI, cash has also to be found for vastly increased salaries for some necessary jobs.

      2) What is the impact of UBI on inward migration? Hint: you are unemployed and unemployable in England, France or Eritrea, and you hear about Scotland where everybody gets a UBI. How would you respond?

      These are just two reasons why UBI has never been adopted anywhere, even in Scotland’s pinup role model, Norway.

      Of course, with increasing automation, the pool of available jobs is shrinking yearly, so UBI will probably be back on the agenda eventually. The likelihood is that it will inevitably have to be set at such a low level that nobody will voluntarily subsist on UBI alone. How else will it be affordable?

    233. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 10.17 am

      Firstly the devolusionists in the SNP are never going to table something as radical as UBI or a Land Value Tax. I doubt they’d do so even post independence. If the past 8 years have shown us anything it is that the SNP are a centrist, grey suited managerial party, whatever their protestations and pretentions about at being a left of centre social democratic party.

      Given any such policy is going to be post indy, it would be up to the then current Scottish Government to ensure non-citizens would not be eligible. The nativists must be slavering about it even as we speak.

      I looked up the Finnish study from a few years ago (2017 I think?) and found the following discussion paper:

      https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income#:~:text=In%20Finland's%20two%2Dyear%20study,if%20they%20found%20paid%20work.

      They had 2000 randomly selected unemployed people who were paid Euros 560 per month instead of their unemployment benefit on top of their existing housing allowance (an average of Euros 330 per month). That figure is significantly below average Finnish household income of Euros 2,400.

      The 2 year study found a small increase in employment amongst the group compared with the control group not on UBI and a huge boost to “well being” and life satisfaction in the UBI group. The study also noted positive feedback loops at 2 levels: for individuals the increased security and well being encouraged them to branch out and seek new opportunities which in turn fuelled more positive feelings.

      At a societal level those on the UBI study exhibited an increase in trust in other people, institutions and societal systems. Trust in others and in societal institutions regularly comes up in studies as central building blocks for well functioning societies which appear at the top of most global measures of happiness. Countries with high levels of trust tend to have higher levels of both income and “life satisfaction”.

    234. Ron Maclean says:

      From robinmcalpine.org The Worlds to Come: Part Two

    235. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Thanks for your response.

      I am aware of the Finnish study and of other studies around the world that have decisively shown that giving people free money generally makes them happier, especially if they have little or none to start with.

      My post was really only intended as a counter to Sarah who reckoned she could see no disadvantages to UBI, so I wrote down a couple of them.

      Myself, I am particularly interested in pensions and how they would be affected by a UBI. Because, immediately, people are going to say, ah but, the elderly (and the infirm, or disabled) have greater needs than the young and fit, so they need more money, and thus at step 1 of the discussion, the “Universal” principle already comes under attack.

      IMO, if everybody gets a UBI, one of the justifications for free healthcare comes under attack.

      Another consideration is at what age, UBI should be payable. I favour at birth (payable to your parent(s) until such time as you become an adult), but why not at conception? Would there have to be a limit of children per couple, or per adult? Perhaps, as otherwise the key to a lucrative lifestyle might be to breed uncontrollably.

      And why would society want that, in an era of over-population, climate decline, and job automation?

      Anyways, I see a new thread has started so we will all migrate to there for new arguments, insults and name calling 🙂

    236. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Is it true Rev Stu has returned to the bird as the Ghost of Wings?”

      I expect the account will be banned again within days at the most, but yes, for now.

    237. Andy Ellis says:

      @Rev Stu 11.27 am

      Presumably Elon’s take over being on hold may have had an impact on reversing previously banned accounts being re-instated…? I can’t even be bothered looking now with the annoying pop-up thingy springing up every time you click on a bird link.

      I’m not sure I can be arsed resuscitating my account even if it becomes an option. After reading Robin McAlpine’s latest 3 part jeremiad and your new post I feel the need for something uplifting. Is it too early to start drinking……? 🙁

    238. sarah says:

      @ Dan at 7.59 p.m.: 🙂 🙂 🙂

    239. twathater says:

      Breeks @ 7.02am my god the sturgeon fanzine is fair earning its hand out , it’s not even disguising it now , sturgeon’s pin up photies are multiplying

      The betrayer mentions the investment bank to encourage more capatilistic investment from the neocons she mentions the Scottish social security system but again fails to mention the constant fuckwit Shirley Ann shit for brains objected to taking control of them from WM until 2024 , she mentions renewables but again fails to mention she GIFTED them to energy companies for a FRACTION of their worth



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