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Please think of the millionaires

Posted on December 17, 2017 by

This week’s Scottish budget threw the opposition parties and the media into panic and disarray. Evidently having expected considerably more swingeing tax hikes than the extremely modest increases that were imposed on higher earners, they’d built up a head of steaming fury that had nowhere to go, and have been reduced to frantically scrabbling around for extreme (or flat-out wrong) examples to try to generate outrage.

Today’s politics lead in the Scottish Mail On Sunday is a case in point.

By going through all the numbers with a fine-tooth comb, the SMoS has managed to pick out a tiny anomaly around National Insurance thresholds, and portrayed it as hitting people on a very healthy but not exactly super-rich salary of £45,000 with a total tax-and-NI rate of 53%.

The small print, as ever, is rather less dramatic.

Because the anomalous rate quoted only applies to the portion of people’s earnings between £44,273 and £46,350. That £2,077 will be taxed at 53% rather than what the Mail calls a “much lower” 48% if it was in England.

That means an actual difference of £104 per year (£1101 rather than £997), or exactly £2 a week, for that particular slice of earnings.

Which isn’t even news, because we already knew that the budget meant higher-rate taxpayers in Scotland would be contributing a little more than those in the rest of the UK, as the Mail itself had pointed out days earlier.

So the story is simply reframing stuff everyone already knew in such a way as to make it sound far worse than it really is. But it’s not finished at that point.

Thousands of pounds? From our poor cash-strapped pensioners? Tell us more!

Oh. This is in fact a story run first by the Scottish Sun, which at least had the restraint to keep its hysteria down to “hundreds” of pounds:

What it means is that anyone fortunate enough to have built up a private pension pot in six figures, and who decided to cash it all out as one lump sum rather than a much more tax-efficient annuity, would pay slightly more tax on it in Scotland rather than in England, reducing the value of an “average” £105,000 pot (we’re not sure whose average that is) to a feeble, pathetic pittance of just, um, £104,478.

To get to the Mail On Sunday’s figure of “thousands” in extra tax (let’s keep it modest and say £3000), a pensioner would have to be cashing in a lump sum of £597,723.

A full-time worker on the UK minimum wage working a 35-hour week earns £13,650 a year before deductions. They’d have to work almost 44 years just to EARN that £598K, let alone be able to SAVE that much into a pension pot over their lifetime.

(The average full-time wage is about twice as much, so would take 22 years of saving every single penny a person earned – not paying any bills, or rent, or mortgage, or buying food – to build up a pension so large that it’d cost £3000 in extra tax.)

We’re going to go ahead and say that anyone who’s about to cash in a cheque for nearly SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS in a oner can probably afford to kick in £3000 – about 0.5% – for public services and people less well off than themselves without suffering too badly. But whatever else you might say about the Tories or the Daily Mail, they know who their audience is.

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    1. 17 12 17 13:56

      Please think of the millionaires | speymouth

    123 to “Please think of the millionaires”

    1. Ken500 says:

      Under UK Law any pension take, after any tax free allowance, is taxed at 25%. Pensioners pay tax.

      For basic taxpayers. £12K Tax take is £4K.

    2. Brian McHugh says:

      They might know who their audience is, but it’s an audience that’s getting ever smaller.

    3. Iain says:

      Quite a lot of the press reaction to the Scottish Budget warrants complaints to the Independent Press Standards Organisation, under the ‘Accuracy’ guidelines of the Editors’ Code of Practice:

      “i) The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information or images, including headlines not supported by the text.
      ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or distortion must be corrected, promptly and with due prominence, and — where appropriate — an apology published. In cases involving IPSO, due prominence should be as required by the regulator.
      iii) A fair opportunity to reply to significant inaccuracies should be given, when reasonably called for.
      iv) The Press, while free to editorialise and campaign, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact.

      https://www.ipso.co.uk/make-a-complaint/

    4. John Lowe says:

      We can complain but lies and misinformation already out there. And apologies always in an obscure position and very small print. But I’m loving the SMSm YoonMSM and the Tories (blue red and yellow) rants ?????

    5. Arbroath1320 says:

      WHIT?

      Millionaires are suffering!

      Quick … we can’t have the poor wee souls going all destitute and needing to visit a food bank like NORMAL people … where do I sign up to the Crowdfunder! 😀

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      I think they noted on the paper review this morning that there was a dearth of any serious analysis of the budget in the Sunday papers. Probably means that the hacks can’t get a decent SNP bad handle on it and so are letting it slide.

      The Tories are enraged but that is hardly a surprise. Why raises taxes to heat the poor when you can just set them on fire…or whatever the current DWP policy is.

    7. Jock McDonnell says:

      Sorry @RobertPeffers, what decision did I miss ?
      Can’t find it on the link you posted on the last thread.

    8. Dr Jim says:

      One hopes these cash strapped millionaires accountants keep them appraised of the devastation being wrought upon their finances by this evil SNP cult and that they must immediately flee the country to save themselves the indignity of having their accounts raided to the tune of huge amounts of some pounds of a once in a lifetime tax grap of the price of an iphone

      It’s a worry

    9. Brian Powell says:

      People thought it would be great when the Gas, Electricity, water (in England), rail, buses, building societies, TSB were sold off getting a some hundreds of £s in their pockets.

      Now, not so much or not at all. Now wanting these all back in public hands. I have the feeling their is the same kind of lack of foresight going on with chunks of the Scottish population. Getting so careless of what they have and which, if they don’t keep control of Holyrood and ultimately the future of Scotland, will all be taken from them.

    10. Thepnr says:

      From the article:

      “The news comes after it emerged hundreds of thousands of married Scots also face losing a £230 tax break. The SNP’s decision to introduce a 21% “intermediate” rate for anyone earning more than £24,000 means they will no longer be elegible for the marriage allowance – which can only be claimed by basic rate taxpayes.”

      This is flat out lie, the rate at which you start paying tax is a combination of the Standard UK Personal Allowance £11,850 PLUS any additional allowance e.g. Marriage Allowance or Blind Persons Allowance. Note the distinction below between rate limits and thresholds from the Scottish Govs explanatory note on the tax changes.

      The SRR sets the income tax rates and bands of income above the Personal Allowance. It therefore sets what are Scottish rate limits, rather than thresholds.
      This is because, although there is a standard personal allowance (£11,850 for tax year 2018/19), this can then vary for a number of reasons, including the Marriage Allowance or the Blind Persons’ allowance. The band thresholds are made up of an individual’s tax-free allowance plus the relevant rate limit set out by the SRR.

      http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00529314.pdf

      The threshold is the point at which you start to pay the applicable rate not the rate limit. The marriage allowance is £1150 and this is where the £230 tax break comes from (1150×0.2) the marriage allowance reduces you overall tax by £230.

      Because the combined allowance now falls into a 19% tax band the “tax break” will be reduced to £218.50 the Mail though would have it’s readers believe that they will now pay £230 more tax as they won’t get the marriage allowance. Flat out lie.

    11. artyhetty says:

      Most of those with such massive pension pots, or savings or whatever, are savvy about money. They know how to keep their cash, and have accountants who know how to help them them keep it.

      It’s the low paid, no paid young that are suffering, and some really struggling. I see that two Eton guys who are running Edinburgh’s hogmanay are intending on employing a few hundred young folk, for er, well, no pay! Making millions, get the people slaving for you, win win, big time!

      To think that some are content that many people are not even able to afford the basics, like food, shelter and warmth. The main, three basic human rights.

      Reading about teachers in England having to buy food, and all kinds of essentials, and to apply to school funds for money for a bed for one family. This is all due to the so called austerity, that Tory and red Tory are happy to inflict on the most vulnerable people, even children.

      What a disgusting, immoral, load of Britnats sitting there at Westminster. It’s criminal and no one is fighting the corner of the most vulnerable in England, or Wales.

      The ScotGov, ie the SNP, are mitigating the horrendous UKgov cuts to our most vulnerable.
      Scotland would be destroyed if a Britnat party was at the helm, no doubt about it.

    12. Ann Rayner says:

      I would like to know why anyone earning around £45,000 or so pays only 2% National Insurance on anything over this sum. The rest of us who earn a lot less have to pay 12% on the lot. Unfortunately Scotland has no control over NI.
      If everyone payed 12% on all their earnings, it is quite possible that the rate could be lowered for all. Another 10% on the remaining £955,000 would bring in a fair bit from every millionaire. No sympathy for them from me: the Mail goes on about hidden taxes but doesn’t mantion the hidden allowances. Such a move would also remove the anomaly they complain of.

    13. SteveW says:

      I think the term used by pension advisors for anyone who cashes in all of their pension pot in one go and get the 75% taxed is “f****ng idiot”.

    14. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      What’s the median salary of a newspaper editor?

      This whole Dead Tree Scroll litany is just a complaint from a privileged few who are lucky not only to be well-off but also have the means of megaphoning their discontent to the public at large, most of whom are not nearly so fortunate.

      And more and more of whom are hopefully beginning to notice the glaring discrepancy.

    15. Black Joan says:

      HandandShrimp @ 1.31pm. I heard that newspaper review this morning, too.

      Apparent bafflement at the failure of the Sunday papers to exert themselves sufficiently to come up with an in-depth analysis of this historic budget. It’s as if it didn’t happen.

      No need to be baffled. MSM are both slothful and hell-bent on an SNPBAD mission.

      It’s all too clear to them (without any great effort) that there’s no mileage in the SNPBAD mantra with regard to this clever budget, so they reach for their emergency motto: if you can’t say anything SNPBAD, don’t say anything at all.

      And THAT leaves them looking negligent and redundant. No surpise there, then.

      This move-along,-nothing-to-see-here approach coincides nicely with the refreshing number of “civic-duty”-quoting phone-callers to Stephen Jardine yesterday.

      BBC and Yoons, especially Tory Yoons, looking increasingly out of step with a progressive nation.

    16. Effijy says:

      FYI

      I had a six figure pension pot and for some major home improvements I cashed in the tax free £25%, however I, or we are only allowed to do this if we hire a Financial to convert it into a pension/investment that supports this.

      For his letters to the 4 pension companies justifying my decision and advise of the swap over, it cost me £3,000.00.

      He also hoped that I would sign up for an annual review of how my new investment was performing at £500.00 per annum?

      I find the SNP tax changes must more just and palatable.

      Does anyone know if the Daily Hails so called journalist wear Jack Boots and point one arm at the sky?

    17. galamcennalath says:

      Young people are getting the bum-iest deal of all when it comes to getting ahead. Basically, many just aren’t.

      The good news is that the Scottish Governments approach will be closing this ‘generation gap’ a wee bit. We need Indy to reverse decades of UKOK perversions.

      “If you’re in your early 30s, you’re half as wealthy as people in their 40s were at the same age”

      http://www.refinery29.uk/2016/09/124909/thirtysomethings-born-in-eighties-poorer-than-previous-generations

    18. Angry Weegie says:

      OT. While the MSM are full of stories about the horrors of the Scottish budget, they are not telling you about the horrors of the Brexit bill that have been voted through at Westminster.
      https://angryweegie.wordpress.com/2017/12/16/is-this-standing-up-for-scotland/

    19. Angry Weegie says:

      OT. While the MSM are full of stories about the horrors of the Scottish budget, they are not telling you about the horrors of the Brexit bill that have been voted through at Westminster.

      https://angryweegie.wordpress.com/2017/12/16/is-this-standing-up-for-scotland/

    20. jfngw says:

      A bit O/T but linked to the MSM and how it views Scotland. A link on the Wings twitter feed regarding Darien gives BBC history page reference. This states:

      “Just 7 years after the failure at Darien, it was forced to concede to the Act of Union, joining Scotland with England as the junior partner in the united kingdom of Great Britain.”

      Not a partner of equals as far as they are concerned really, a subordinate is how they see it. Brexit is just a manifestation of this principle.

    21. Holebender says:

      One small fly in the ointment of your pension pot calculations is that the sums saved attract interest. It’s not necessary to save £100k to have £100k in your pension pot.

    22. Lenny Hartley says:

      Holebender it’s also possible to have negative earnings as the greedy bastards take more in fees for managing you pension that you earn in Interest!

    23. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      It’s time to tackle the lying so called written TV and radio news.

      While we may roll about laughing at the “reports” less well informed people actually believe what these clowns are putting out there.

      Short of legislation I am at a loss what to do about it.

      And indeed it is a pity our rich friends are being forced by the bad SNP to contribute a little more to help the less well off, often the working poor.

      The wealthy should be grateful that folk are not reaching for their pitchforks.

      It will happen only a matter of time.

    24. Al Dossary says:

      NI contributions have always had a ceiling right up to 2011. You (the employee) paid a flat rate up to a certain top line. Anything over and above that you did not pay any % on.

      Since 2011 however, there has been a 2% on any additional earnings above the 40% tax bracket.

      I can’t recall Truthless D. or her lackeys criticising the Tory govt of the day for that 2% tax grab – but all she has done sonce last week is whine about someone on 150k a year paying 1% extra in tax.

      In all honesty, someone earning £50k or more a year in most cases already has various tax reducing measures in place to reduce their liabilities. Pensions being one of the biggest ones.

      Your employer however has to pay his % contribution on every penny that you are salaried for.

      So you can imagine just how much the BBC “saves” by having all its top presenters on service contracts – or even how much certain football clubs were avoiding NI contributions by paying their stars through EBT schemes. For a footballer on 100k per year, the employer based NI would have been around 12% of that.

      Mortgage rate tax relief was good until your average punter started buying houses and qualifying for it and he numbers exploded. Similarly free tuition fees and student grants were good until high education became a method to reduce unemployment amongst school leavers and the numbers exploded.

      My mate was at Strathclyde Uni in the mid 1980s, and did not receive a full grant because his steelworker’ father earned too much. Yet there were students there whose parents were lawyers, accountants, doctors etc yet in receipt of full grants due to clever accountants.

      At last count in the UK there were 100,000 or so registered accountants.

      Such a pity we have not followed the Norwegian model of Skatteetaten where everyone’s tax returns can be viewed online -then we would really find out how much Sam Cameron took a hit for on behalf of her husband, David Cameron in the Panama papers.

      http://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/

    25. Neil Anderson says:

      I fail to believe that anyone with half a brain is swallowing this pish. I doubt very much that, once the new tax rates are applied, we will see a mass exodus of disgruntled middle class of Scots leaving the country.
      Once they’ve factored in the savings they and their children will make on university fees, prescription charges, child care costs and so on I’m sure they’ll happily pay the few pounds per week extra in taxes.

    26. Andy-B says:

      How many times have you pointed out the sheer and utter bias, burgeoning on lies in some case, from the unionist media as a whole.

      It’s utterly disgraceful, I now look upon these charlatan rags posing as newspapers as enemies of Scotland, always attempting to do it down.

    27. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jock McDonnell says: 17 December, 2017 at 1:39 pm:

      “Can’t find it on the link you posted on the last thread”

      The link is to an on-line video channel of live events as they happen in the EU parliament.

      If you want information from the proverbial horse’s mouth you cannot do better than look in that proverbial horses mouth. Just as we Scots will only get the, the more often than not misleading, impressions that the MSM wants us to get unless we go directly to Westminster TV or Holyrood TV and see for ourselves.

      That is if the MSM judge it of enough significance to even mention.

      If I have time I watch the happenings at Westminster, both Commons & Lords and both the Holyrood Chamber and committee rooms. Other than that I read Reuter’s on-line pages:-

      https://uk.reuters.com/

      This is, after all where the lazy MSM go to gather the news before deciding what bits of it are fit for scots to read. Which is why we often see the MSM lot with almost identical columns.

    28. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lochside.
      I replied to your comment to me on the previous thread although, as usual, I suspect you aren’t actually interested other than attempting a put down.

    29. wull2 says:

      One of the main reasons to say NO, is to accept this free paper, unless there is a bin or a toilet close by and you will take one, just in case..

    30. Legerwood says:

      I am sick to death of journalists – reporters or columnists – stating that people earning £24,000, or more often £26,000, will be paying more tax. They have repeated it in the newspaper extracts above.

      That is wrong. Whatever you earn you have to deduct the tax-free personal allowance from your earnings to find the money that is liable to tax. Whether journalists are being deliberately misleading or are just too thick to allow for the personal allowance is a matter for debate but either way what they are writing is wrong.

      The new taxes will come into effect next year 2018/19 as will the new personal allowance of £11,850.

      Therefore someone earning £26,000, the favourite example used by the journalists, will pay tax on £14,150 of the £26,000.

      Of that £14,150, £2000 Will be taxed at the new starter rate of 19%. The remaining £12,150 Will be taxed at the basic rate of 20%. Yes the basic rate is unchanged.

      Total tax equals £2810. If the tax rates were unchanged and the £14,150 Was taxed at 20% then the tax bill would be £2830. Therefore under the new system, and taking into account the personal allowance, someone earning £26,000 next year will pay slightly less tax.

      If the £26,000 the journalists keep referring to as earnings was in fact the sum of money liable for tax AFTER the deduction of the personal allowance then they will pay slightly more tax.

      Of the £26,000, £2000 would be taxed at 19p leaving 24,000 to be taxed at the new rate of 21p.

      In order to have £26,000 liable for tax AFTER the deduction of the personal allowance you would have to be earning £37,850.

    31. Gfaetheblock says:

      “A full-time worker on the UK minimum wage working a 35-hour week earns £13,650 a year before deductions. They’d have to work almost 44 years just to EARN that £598K, let alone be able to SAVE that much into a pension pot over their lifetime.”

      This makes no sence as this is not how pensions, or even savings, work, so is a completely false comparison. Pensions are driven by compounding interest and investment quality, not just adding numbers up. The example has not thought about wage inflation either. If you were on £13k 44 years ago, you would be a millionaire today!

    32. wull2 says:

      Is it possible on here for someone to produce a tax XL document, where you put in your salary, and it gives what you would pay in all the tax bands, then add it all up, including your personal allowance and give you a approx a Total you would pay.

    33. Gfaetheblock says:

      Apologies to Holebender, who I see made the same point previously.

    34. Marcia says:

      Ran out of tissues – laughing. Those newspapers do get funnier trying to spin things the opposite of reality.

    35. Ian Foulds says:

      On the basis that we shall achieve Independence in the near future (is before I intend popping my clogs), is there a plan to restructure the Scottish tax system following Mr. McKay’s recent successful budget?

      If so, could it be presented to the Scottish public before we vote, so that they can see and understand how big, civically minded people run Countries?

    36. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Starter for 10 @wull2 says at 5:31 pm

      https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

      Pick which UK Country and Tax Year you want.

      Won’t be updated as Scot Budget 2017 not passed by parliament yet.

    37. Rock says:

      WOS readers know all about the lying unionist media.

      But what about the rest of the population?

      Surely the one and only “independence supporting” The National has to have this article as front page headline news tomorrow?

      I trust The National’s numerous agents here will get the message through to headquarters.

    38. Macart says:

      Oh the humanity… etc.

      So the folk driven to desperation and poverty over the past ten years of Tory austerity. The people driven into starvation and death. Have the empathy free arseholes who run these titles nothing to say on their behalf?

      What about UK gov’s handling of the economy? What about the legislation they’ve passed (with the full powers of central government), which have brought misery to millions?

      The Mail, Torygraph, Express and ALL the rest can go an take a flying f… fudge tae themselves. They don’t get to dictate who is a fit government. They don’t get to tell folk who is and who isn’t fit to administer any damn thing.

      Every single one of them has done more than their fare share in utterly fucking up the politics, economy and society of these islands. The day the last lights go out in their editorials is the day folk should get their best party togs on.

    39. louis.b.argyll says:

      Andy-B. Moments ago..

      ‘It’s utterly disgraceful, I now look upon these charlatan rags posing as newspapers as enemies of Scotland, always attempting to do it down.’

      I agree wholeheartedly, it actually makes me feel a wee bit sick.

    40. Thepnr says:

      @Macart

      Quite and well said.

    41. GraemeMcCormick says:

      While reading all the Unionist bile about Tax my wife phoned me from Copenhagen where she has been taking a course.

      Her first words were that “this is a seriously wealthy place and all seem to be part of that wealth.”

      Isn’t it amazing that a country half the size of Scotland with the same population but few natural resources charges its people the highest rates of tax in the Western World and still manages to produce an economy of which the whole of the UK can only dream? And the Danes are a happy lot.

      No, it’s not amazing; it’s called Independence!

    42. Alibi says:

      An annuity may be tax-efficient, but returns on annuities are derisory. There are far better ways to take your pension income that buying an annuity.

    43. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 6.56

    44. Robert Graham says:

      On Topic for a wee change.

      Aye me eyes are f/n watering,

      It I had a say every Labour or Tory run council would be instantly taken into special measures, if they continued with their petty vindictive and political childish moves , like forgetting they have gritters, removing classroom assistants , withdrawing school busses , etc and the list goes on .

      All these moves designed to anger and tear at the heart strings of voters and deflect attention from the councils and directly to the Scottish government,

      Scottish councils collectively have One . Eight BILLION £s in reserve, yes they are sitting on almost 2 BILLION quid , and yet are screaming foul, our reserves if we continue to use them might run out in a few years, not weeks, not months , but Years , Do they f/n Seriously believe we are all stupid, it’s that obvious what they are up to ,

      Use Some of The Reserves or your Council Will be made to use them, stop the tear jerking hysterical , theatrical , playing to the crowd vindictive childish political games , or as in Northern Ireland direct rule will be imposed , A very hard line has to be used with these b/rds .

      Ok I lied it was o/t ok hang me, just going with the General flow LYING that seems to be in fashion.

    45. Brian McHugh says:

      Why the heck should married people even get an allowance?

    46. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Robert Graham @ 7.44

      Robert well said.

      If they don’t use a reasonable amount of the reserve fund it is transferred to the Scottish Government that should focus their anti Scottish minds.

    47. jfngw says:

      @Brian McHugh

      They don’t receive an extra allowance, they have the ability to transfer £1150 of their their personal tax allowance if they are below the tax threshold. So this is only worthwhile for those whose income is less than around 10K. We are no talking about wealthy people here.

      The other side of the coin is why should the married partners income be taken into account when claiming benefits?

    48. ScottieDog says:

      Talking with colleagues earlier who despise ‘wee crankie’ as they call her and are incensed at paying more tax. The point they make is that they work hard, away from family for days at a time and should not have to fund deadbeats.

      Unfortunately for us, the media have been very successful at churning out the above narrative.

      The above colleagues’ stocks and shares are doing very well thank you very much in no small way due to quantitative easing – the £435bn of Bank of England money pumped into the stock exchange.
      It also seems hard for people to understand that spending precedes tax. People marvel at the tax take from the London financial sector forgetting the £1 trillion handout from the uk government.
      Tax recirculates existing money.

    49. carjamtic says:

      Just warming up…

    50. Not Convinced says:

      Holebender said on 17 December, 2017 at 4:24 pm
      One small fly in the ointment of your pension pot calculations is that the sums saved attract interest. It’s not necessary to save £100k to have £100k in your pension pot.

      Indeed not! If you where to invest £84.50/month for 40 years, and achieve an average return of 4% over that time period you’d save £40,560 but have a total pension pot of just over £100k. Given that most pension pots also attract contributions from employers as well as what the employee is providing, they likely wouldn’t even need to find the whole £84.50 themselves either!

      Which is not to say that the press aren’t attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill as usual …

    51. Tinto Chiel says:

      The Rev. has quite rightly exposed all this tax Fake News, so how about some real Scottish Government news on its achievements, you know, the stuff you don’t get on MSM?

      Baby Box
      Scrap the public sector pay cap
      Tuition fees abolished
      Phase out new petrol and diesel cars by 2032
      Over 650 schools built or refurbished
      Scottish National Investment Bank
      Record health spending and 12000 more NHS staff
      Free personal care extended to all under 65 who need it
      £750 million extra for schools
      Deposit return scheme for bottles and cans
      Small business bonus
      Double childcare provision to 30 hours a week
      World’s first floating wind farm
      70000 affordable homes completed, 40000 more by 2021
      Prescription charges scrapped
      Free sanitary products provided in schools, colleges and universities to tackle period poverty
      230000 modern apprenticeships
      End rough sleeping
      Extra bobbies on the beat, driving crime down to a 43-year low
      Ban on hitting children
      Protecting the free bus pass and personal care for pensioners
      Aberdeen bypass and A9 dualling
      Queensferry Crossing and Borders railway
      Leading the world on alcohol pricing
      Leading Europe on LGBTI equality
      Leading the UK on fair pay, creating the first Living Wage towns, cities and regions
      Fracking banned
      Publicly-owned, not-for-profit Scottish energy company
      Votes at 16 in SP and local government elections
      Scotland-wide charging network for electric and hybrid vehicles
      World-leading climate change targets
      New measures to encourage healthy eating
      Protecting the most vulnerable families from the worst of Tory cuts Promoting active travel, doubling the walking and cycling budget.

      And all this on the pocket money we get back from Westminster from pillaging our assets.

      What could we achieve with all the levers of our economy in an independent country once again?

      Lurkers: enjoy!

    52. dakk says:

      @ScottieDog
      ‘People marvel at the tax take from the London financial sector forgetting the £1 trillion handout from the uk government.’

      Too true.The bailed out state sponsored financial sector they work in actually makes them the deadbeat parasites who leech off the real economy.The unacceptable face of communism.

      They have poor self awareness.

      As for being away from family days at a time.No doubt min 4 star hotels and sumptuous expense accounts all supported by the state from the real economy.

      Judge not, that ye be judged .I say to them.

    53. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      That list is precisely the type of thing that sends SLabbers into frothing mentalness. They can’t conceal these achievements, are forced into trying to belittle them, end-up looking petty and reactionary.

      What’s more worrying is that some pro-indy ‘voices’ (you’ll know exactly who I’m talking about but I won’t name them) go along with the nit-picking in return for the dubious ‘kudos’ of having a platform in ‘meeja’. They know who they are and they know what they’re doing. Problem for them is that *we* know too and they cannot get away with it indefinitely.

    54. Morgatron says:

      Tinto Chiel.
      Spot on.
      And we still have that Fud Face Davidson defending this broken, corrupt union.

    55. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Aye it’s strange though that those same pro-Indy voices only seem to get a say in the media if they’re happy to criticise the SNP.

      No real principles, fake and phoney too eager to accept the media shilling and get their coupon in the news while forgetting the real enemies of Scotalnd.

    56. heedtracker says:

      Poor rich people. Sometimes life is just fair, er.

      But what’s Brenda going to chip in?

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/28/queen-28m-pay-rise-taxpayer-sovereign-grant

      Queen in line for £2.8m pay rise in 2017-18
      Monarch stands to receive £45.6m from taxpayer unless sovereign grant percentage is reviewed.

      Tasty. Even pay cheque is ultra swish as in, “sovereign grant.”

    57. Tinto Chiel says:

      @IanB, Morgatron: vile seps who got a Christmas card from the FM will recognise it as simply the list on the reverse of the card.

      So impressive, though, seeing a government assailed on all sides by a hostile media, producing such a progressive programme.

      Then remember the soon-to-be-ennobled FM Jack McConnell giving £1.5 million back to Westminster ‘cos he couldn’t think of what to spend it on.

      Sums up the whole rotten Yoon cabal, selling out Scotland at every turn. BLiS______d’s mission statement: depress Scottish expectation and sow hopelessness and fatalism.

      I ask again: what could we achieve with full control of our economy?

      Willie Winkie, Ruth tank-Straddler, tricky Dickie Leonard et al: any answers?

    58. Tinto Chiel says:

      £1.5 Billion, FFS!

      The price of Jack’s cosy sinecure in the Lords?

    59. Morgatron says:

      Tinto, my Winnie and FM crimbo card pride of place , the wife is getting a wee tad jealous.

    60. Thepnr says:

      O/T Just put up on Wings twitter feed, this is for David Caledonia pro Britain First poster on Wings and all round arsehole.

      https://twitter.com/D_Raval/status/941945890658496512

    61. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morgatron: same at Tinto Towers. Faberge egg required now for Mrs TC’s Crimbo.

      Thepnr: as Macart would say, great catch.

      Chrome-Dome Robinson is really being exposed for the asbestos-pants little squirmer that he is.

    62. defo says:

      This time next year Rodders…
      Imagine, what if Yes had won?
      We would have missed all this fun & desperation!

    63. galamcennalath says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      Robinson is really being exposed for the asbestos-pants little squirmer that he is.

      Just carrying out this employer’s mission – protecting, promoting, and normalising the far right.

      After all, they don’t want younger folks with a sketchy grasp of history concluding there is something distinctly dodgy about fascism!

    64. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Here we have Nick Robinson posing for a photo with Britain First Deputy Leader Jayda Fransen. I can only surmise that he didn’t know who she was.

      Aye right!

      https://twitter.com/mrlongdenextra/status/942101868108492801

      This is Jayda Fransen from two days ago in case you didn’t know.

      Britain First chief Jayda Fransen shouts ‘No Surrender’ after leaving dock in Belfast

      https://archive.is/1woB0

    65. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      defo @ 22:44,

      Kirsty Hughes was lately reminding us that the latest Survation poll found that 68% of Scots now think that leaving the EU is a mistake, well up on the 62% of the referendum result.

      So the message is getting through, slow though it may be to dawn for some.

      Strikes me then that one easy push for indyref2 is to turn your comment around: “Just imagine how much simpler, smoother and better-organised life here would have been over the last [n] years if we had only voted Yes in 2014”.

      Then follow through with: “Well, now you have another chance to escape the ever-continuing mess: go for indy!”

    66. Tinto Chiel says:

      galamcennalath: so right. I don’t listen to VichySound with Kay with an E and Gary R, because being lied to by Massey Fergusons is simply too much to bear at my age.

      Listening to Pravdasound4 can be instructive, though. In the 90s it came close to revealing the truth about WMD, the Iraq War and David Kelly’s death and the Establishment decided that was never going to happen again, and, as Heed would say, the Tory gimps of all hues took over and “shaped” the news for us.

      Topical memes seem to be: social media=fake news; Putin corrupting the electoral process in USA and elsewhere; Brexit good; EU being vindictive towards plucky Blighty; how-very-dare -you-Irish working as tools of the EU to stab May in the back; Scotland the Void which dare not speak its name, und so weiter…

    67. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thepnr @11.16: cripes! It just got worse! Smallaxe alerted me to this fragrant lady recently. The BBC is so far right now it’s hard to remember a time when it was a proper broadcaster.

      Yet take a listen to The Media Show on R4 every week and listen to the sheer hypocritical guff about its impartiality and balance and you’ll find yourself in a parallel universe of pish.

      Keep repeating the lies relentlessly every day and hope the suckas swallow it……

      Need to lie down in a darkened room.

    68. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Latest poll (BMG I think) puts “remain” firmly in the lead by about 10 points in England. Don’t think Brexit is going to happen!

      On the media front think we should target the weakest first. That is the infantile Daily Express. Anybody got any ideas how we should go about this?
      Perhaps an “Enemy of Scotland” listing

    69. Still Positive says:

      Like others have said the FM’s Christmas card has pride of place on my mantelpiece. Love the picture with Winnie Ewing. Her win in Hamilton in 1967 got me hooked on independence.

    70. Robert Kerr says:

      Apologies to Nana for an early link.

      https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/diarmaid-ferriter-ireland-should-learn-from-1921-treaty-to-avoid-future-problems-with-brexit-deal-1.3328806

      No insanity in Dublin as per A Einstein’s definition.

      Off to my charpoy now.

      Sleep well Wingers

    71. defo says:

      Robert J
      “So the message is getting through, slow though it may be to dawn for some.”

      For some, the message has been, and has had to be personally hammered home. My daughter in law was No, mainly on the prospect of losing her HMRC job. !.
      I’m sure most of us know someone in this category already, and defo will do soon, as the good ship Blighty slips below the waves in the Brexit Mayhem.
      All will be welcomed aboard the life-raft Scotia.

    72. Thepnr says:

      @defo

      All will be welcomed aboard the life-raft Scotia.

      Yes, I quite like that 🙂

    73. defo says:

      Thepnr
      When I said “all”…
      I have a little list. 😉

      Goodnight good wingers. All will be well, it’s only a matter of time now. It always was, since Holyrood set up shop, with a gradualist SNP champing at the bit.

      But no, feck it. Let’s declare UDI, and see if that has much mileage. !

    74. dakk says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      17 December, 2017 at 11:37 pm
      Latest poll (BMG I think) puts “remain” firmly in the lead by about 10 points in Englan
      ‘Don’t think Brexit is going to happen!’

      It’s one thing dragging the supine sweaties and plastic paddies out against their will,but going against the apparent will of their own people may concentrate the minds of the English state.

      The young demographic of the Remain vote might be the telling factor.

    75. mr thms says:

      Regarding the pension pots tax.

      Does the tax stay in Scotland or go to Westminster?

    76. Al Dossary says:

      Pension pot tax – I would assume that on the 75% of the lump sum which is due income tax, then that tax will go to holyrood.

      Income tax is the baby brother or revenue generation however. VAT, Corporation tax at 19% on all company profits, divdend tax insurance tax premium, inheritance tax etc still remain reserved.

      Figures below are rough – rounded up or down to make numbers easy for me in my head, so please dont nit-pick over 1 % here or there.

      Consider a small business owner turning over £50k profit before taxes. The owner will take £10k in salary free of tax, leaving £40k profit. On that £40k profit they will pay £8k corporation tax leaving £32k. If that £32k is taken as a dividend there is now £2k tax payable. All of these taxes go straight to HMRC.

      So your small business owner is paying £2k tax on dividends of £32k and salary of £10k (plus maybe £900 NI costs) whereas a normal, employed person will pay just over £4k in NI and £6k in tax based on a £42k salary.

    77. Vestas says:

      @ Al Dossary 3:46 am :

      “So your small business owner is paying £2k tax on dividends of £32k and salary of £10k (plus maybe £900 NI costs) whereas a normal, employed person will pay just over £4k in NI and £6k in tax based on a £42k salary.”

      Doesn’t work that way anymore – you pay tax on (your own) company dividends much as you would on PAYE and you better not have any regular customers (ones you work for more than 6 months in two years) as those contracts probably fall under IR35.

      Anyway your notional “small business owner” gets :

      1) No sick pay;
      2) No paid holidays;
      3) No employers contribution to pension;
      4) No unemployment benefit – in fact no benefits at all while the company still exists.

      Why don’t you try it – much like all the people who whinge about contractors in the IT business I think you’ll find that its not the goldrush you seem to think it is.

    78. Phronesis says:

      The adverse societal consequences of destroying the state infrastructure from an English GP’s perspective.Ideologically, politically and socially Scotland and WM are poles apart- the UK political system is broken. Scotland’s citizens have consistently rejected this realpolitik.

      ‘When the UK’s economic divisions are discussed, an under-appreciated trend has been how the middle class has been split asunder into the ‘have lots’ in finance, real estate, and the higher echelons of entertainment, and the rest of us…Further afield is the sterile affluence of the Home Counties, while truly rural areas contend with much of the worst poverty and social exclusion in the country.
      This matters because of how it affects funding, via the weighted list size, which financially penalises practices in affluent non-metropolitan areas such as mine. These expensive areas now also contend with a recruitment and retention crisis. I have chronicled how district nursing has virtually disintegrated in my area, and how no consultant or GP can settle here independently without a substantial private practice…

      The Conservative government is suffering an unprecedented rift with Middle England, for it cannot ideologically champion the free market while being ideologically opposed to the migrant foot-soldiers vital to the economy. Public services are, if anything, even more dependent on migrant labour, and Brexit, especially the ‘hard’ version, will be disastrous for health care…On a range of issues, my observations challenge the assumption that inequalities never harm the wealthy, and when a retired CEO cannot access a district nurse because she cannot afford to live within a two-county radius of where he does, he too might wish we could narrow the gap’

      Lakasing, Edin. Inequality, austerity, Brexit, and health care. British Journal of General Practice 67(665), 546. 1-12-2017

    79. Nana says:

      UK banks tell May: a Canada-style Brexit deal is not good enough
      http://archive.is/EV6ni

      Excellent blog by Steve Peers on the Working Time Directive
      http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/workers-rights-brexit-bonfire-begins.html?m=1

      http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/tory-govt-quietly-axes-mortgage-protection-scheme-thats-around-since-1948/

      Democracy and the Machinations of Mind Control
      http://archive.is/ZKrg2

    80. cearc says:

      Al,Vestas,

      The question that people working as a company have to ask themselves is whether they want to pay a little more tax via income to Scotland or a little less tax via dividends to Westminster.

      Devolution of just income tax really is a big money-where-your-mouth-is moment for a lot of people.

    81. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Oh this’ll leave a mark Nana.

      https://archive.is/Wu9L0

      Puts the effects of Brexit on the UK in the right perspective I reckon.

    82. Nana says:

      @Macart

      Amazing what small countries can achieve when they are not controlled by Westminster clowns. I saw a chart sometime over the weekend showing how other countries are doing, went looking for it but can not find it right now. UK was at the bottom!
      If I come across it again, I will link to it.

      Forgot to add this one to the last lot of links

      State pension Triple lock to go
      http://archive.is/KMkYm

    83. Vestas says:

      @ cearc 8:35 am :

      “Al,Vestas,

      The question that people working as a company have to ask themselves is whether they want to pay a little more tax via income to Scotland or a little less tax via dividends to Westminster.”

      Absolutely but when the “small business owner” gets nothing back in terms of rights (unemployment benefit, SSP, etc) then you’ll get no support from them.

      People tend to think of company owners as “fat cats”. The vast majority of them are actually on lower hourly incomes than the median UK employee – when “benefits” such as sick pay, holiday pay, tax credits are taken into account. Your local corner shop/PO is a company – fancy working 15 hours a day like our local shopowner does? Oh and he barely breaks even now so he’ll be closed in the next 12-18 months.

    84. Al Dossary says:

      @Vestas,

      I did try it, but I will admit that my company has not traded since 2014. Personally for me, it represented a 30% increase in take home pay for the same work as I had been doing previously but for a different company.

      However, like many of our skilled tradesmen (and even unskilled workers) for me it was “false self-employment”. Doing the same job through an agency as I was previously, but for more cash.

      Whilst you do lose sick pay, paid holidays and unemployment benefit – you should be contributing to pension now through the company. In fact it is one of the ways that big earners use to reduce their tax liability – both through the employers and employees.

      My point is that for an extra £6k per year many people consider it either worth the risk – or perhaps it is that or the dole in many cases.

    85. Gullane No4 says:

      ‘Tricky Dickie’ Leonard…….I don’t think so.
      The man does not appear to have the wits to be tricky.

      ‘Richard Head’ Leonard more like.

    86. Legerwood says:

      Nana @ 9.13 am

      Was it the chart From Robert Peston tweet on Rev’s Twitter feed.
      Chart of EU countries’ GDP incl US and Japan.
      UK at bottom just below Greece.

      Sorry cannot do link

    87. Vestas says:

      @ Al Dossary 9:38 am :

      “@Vestas,

      I did try it, but I will admit that my company has not traded since 2014. Personally for me, it represented a 30% increase in take home pay for the same work as I had been doing previously but for a different company.”

      Aye well the problem there is that you were (knowingly?) breaking the law. Your company was 100% caught by IR35 and would have been since 2002 – you should have been paying your full PAYE/NI but were in fact evading it.

      I’d keep your head down matey and not mention things like that as Revenue & Customs can now come after you for that forever (with interest/fines). There’s no 6 year limit on tax evasion now.

      Re dividends. That changed a couple of years back to specifically catch people like you. You now pay an effective minimum rate of 25% tax on (your own) company dividends and that varies depending on whether you’re a higher rate taxpayer or not.

    88. galamcennalath says:

      @Nana

      I find Pete Wishart’s article depressing, but predictable.

      The new ‘Scottish’ Tories are only lobby fodder.

      He is right is saying they were elected as Ruth’s no second ref party candidates.

      How sad that effective hard working MPs were replaced by such utter numpties. Still, come the next general election it provides lots of material showing how little they do and the issues they support.

    89. Nana says:

      @Legerwood, thanks for that. I was searching all over and found Kirsty Hughes had tweeted it last evening.

      Don’t bother to look at this league table of growth in rich countries

      https://twitter.com/Peston/status/942546138468700162

      and one more link while I’m still here

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay-mary-fitzgerald/why-is-northern-ireland-office-protecting-dups-dirty-little

    90. Proud Cybernat says:

      Jingle Bulls…

      https://imgur.com/a/KC1rn

    91. Nana says:

      @gala indeed he is correct. We lost good people to that shower of numpties and that is depressing.

      Posting this petition again for anyone who hasn’t seen it

      https://www.change.org/p/stop-no-housing-development-at-culloden-battlefield

    92. heraldnomore says:

      Vestas, 25% on net divs is a thing of the past – that was the system when there was a tax credit with the dividend.

      Now no grossing up, the first £5k is free of tax, and then any excess charged at 7.5% up the UK higher rate limit, 32.5% thereafter and 38.1 in highest rate.

      And as you know none of that tax comes to Scotland.

    93. On the subject of Brexit not happening, I wouldn’t like to place any bets on that.
      Both Labour and the Tories have made it clear there will be no second EU referendum.

      And as I see it, the Tories will make sure they hold on to power until we are out of Europe, before they call any general election.

    94. heedtracker says:

      Great links Nana! for coffee.

      Big wodge of beeb gimp propaganda on a Monday morn here. We are Leaving the EU but our imperial masters have a cunning plan, they are going to stay in the EU, single market that is, today at any rate.

      Aunty beeb loves her think tanks. Has anyone told the great Brit think tanks that the EU are not going to give our imperial masters a new and exciting stay in the EU single market deal, just for Leaving it all behind?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42384491

      “A think tank is proposing a post-Brexit trading deal based on the UK and the EU sharing each other’s markets.

      It would see the UK and EU continuing the regulatory alignment that exists today, and the formation of a new customs union similar to the existing one, the centre-left IPPR said.

      It would allow tariff-free trade, and the UK to benefit from EU trade deals.”

      not only but also,

      “It says the shared market approach would address a key demand from Leave campaigners on national sovereignty. “It does this by allowing for the possibility of divergence over time – with clear and proportionate consequences for doing so – through a mechanism called ‘reverse accession’,” the report said.

      Divergence over time? nice.

      Hope Michel Bernard Barnier is also a brain washed beeb gimp viewer like us here in teamGB and is recovering well from his frontal lobotomy.

    95. orri says:

      OK so the problem here is exactly the same one as when the SNP didn’t raise the starting rate for 40% tax before this budget. A fine tooth comb isn’t exactly needed to find something you already knew unless you’ve got the memory of a goldfish.

      Not only that but claiming you needed that level of examination of a budget to find such a “flaw” sounds either condescending as it implies no mere mortal could spot it or just fucking desperate.

      Added to which, if you get into those games of adding up hidden taxes, which NI is, then you might as well add in the erosion of the Personal Allowance as you go over £100,000 in earnings. Funnily enough whereas those in the rUK would be paying an extra %10, or 20% for every £2, in Scotland it’d only be 9.5%. Until the initial PA had been reduced to 0.

    96. The Daily Male says:

      Latest News

      It has just been revealed that it will be illegal to make carpet grips in the UK
      And it will also be illegal to have venetian blinds
      So from now on, we will all have to have lots of tacks, and it will be curtains for us all…. lol

    97. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      A think tank is proposing a post-Brexit trading deal based on the UK and the EU sharing each other’s markets.

      I’ve noticed there is a lot of fantasy thinking appearing from ‘experts’. I wonder for whose benefit? All I can think of is crude attempts to perpetuate the widespread rosy feeling that Brexit will be just fine in the end.

      Frankly, in my estimation, not enough people are worried shitless yet!

      The EU aren’t out to punish, just out of vindictiveness. Neither are they out to ensure Brexit is a success for the UK! Brexit will be negative, the only question is just how bad.

      Without a ‘Norway’ outcome fully in the single market, the trade deal is likely to cover mostly goods, not services. If services are hammered, then tax revenues will be hit and nasty recession will follow. The UK economy simply isn’t robust enough to absorb a big shock.

    98. heedtracker says:

      I’ve noticed there is a lot of fantasy thinking appearing from ‘experts’. I wonder for whose benefit? All I can think of is crude attempts to perpetuate the widespread rosy feeling that Brexit will be just fine in the end.

      Just that one thing from the BBC frauds, is purely for the setting up of the great tory Brexit fudge, which it was always going to be.

      From Cameron the pig fancier’s great Brexit ref will crush tory far right loony wing reckless gamble, to the even greater Brexit fudge coming down the pipe, there is quite a lot of vote tory propaganda work ahead for the whole of their beeb gimp network alone.

      Viewers in Scotland will have a double whammy of beeb gimp propaganda, where its all going to be Alex Salmond’s fault, like how he caused the 2008 City collapse crash, by writing a letter to Fred the Shred.

      Anyone can be a beeb gimp attack propagandist:D

    99. sensibledave says:

      It will be interesting to see how this works out overall. I imagine that Westminster will be following things very closely.

      The objective is to increase the overall tax take. At this time, I am unaware of what the net increase is forecast to be. The danger with these changes is that the result often ends up worse.

      “Tinkering” with the tax rates can be seen as having little affect on tax payers lives – but the issue is always about the affect on people’s disposable income – i.e. the money they have left after they have paid all their monthly bills. If a million people have say, £20 less a month to “dispose of” then what is it that are not spending that £20 million pounds on?

      Firstly, what part of that £20 (£20 million)) was being spent on goods/services that attracted VAT? Obviously the government will receive less VAT receipts by that figure.

      If people were spending that £20 (£20 million) on restaurants, going to the movies, in the pub or buying gifts, etc … then, each month, £20 million less will be spent in those establishments and their takings will go down by degree. If takings go down then Corporation tax receipts inevitably go down. Some establishments may need less staff or the companies that made products may need less staff, by degree, and so on. Some companies may even reduce their staffing.

      I don’t know if/how the Scottish Government will be capturing the data to be able to come up with a “net” position?

      Interesting move though.

    100. heedtracker says:

      “Tinkering” with the tax rates can be seen as having little affect on tax payers lives – but the issue is always about the affect on people’s disposable income – i.e. the money they have left after they have paid all their monthly bills. If a million people have say, £20 less a month to “dispose of” then what is it that are not spending that £20 million pounds on?

      Ah sensibleD, thick, misinformed, not informed as per…

      The real underlying UKOK tory catastrofuck sensibledave is, UK household debt time bomb, waiting and ticking away, getting bigger and bigger. UKOK credit card debt alone, is one of the next bank collapse triggers.

      It is odd watching you britnat’s skelping the backs of vile sep legs though sensible, as the next subprime tragedy puffs up, in the US its meant to be their insane car loan market. Its the same here but its harder in the US to ramp up your credit card debt.

      But if it does happen sensibleD and it will, the next great City collapse will all be used once again to terrorise your Scotland region, massed ranks of beeb gimps howling at us Scots how the big broad shoulders of teamGB saved us all, how RBS will Leave Scotland for ever and ever, how Scots were all rescued by and from er, the great British fiscal red and blue tory lunatics, who then got rich beyond avarice, and ofcourse blamed Alex Salmond to boot, because he wrote a letter to one of histories greatest City spivs, Fred the Shred.

      Why no City slicker shyster never went to jail or even saw a court room sensibledave, is just one more giant reason to loath/love this endlessly repellent UKOK union.

      And along, twerps like you sensibleD grinch over a tiny Scottish tax rise:D

    101. Thepnr says:

      @sensibledave

      Don’t be daft Dave, the Scottish government reckon that these tax changes will give them an additional £164 million with which to alleviate Westminster austerity.

      This will be done by increasing the public sector pay cap from 1% to 3% and spending the money on other essential services. So the money hasn’t disappeared from the economy it will still be spent.

      VAT ect ect will still all be payed on this money rather than foreign holidays, BMW’s or Mercedes cars. It was a good budget.

    102. Paul Wilson says:

      Can I get a pension of £45,000 please then I will gladly pay the higher tax. Honestly see Tories they are so greedy!

    103. sensibledave says:

      Heedy and Thepnr

      … good to see you are not “single issue” then.

      I made a perfectly reasonable observation about tax changes in general and you turn it into something “Britnat” … jeez you are such idiots.

      Heedy, only Scottish voters have voted for SCotland to be part of the Union. In fact, it is only SCots that have had that option! The only nation that we can be sure is “pro-Union” is SCotland! The only Britnats that we know exist are SCots.

      So, take your ridiculous bile and shove it up your a**e… t**t!

    104. Thepnr says:

      @sensibledave

      That’s a shame that you had to go off on a rant. I won’t respond in any way to you in future as I’m clearly wasting my time.

      Have a good day.

    105. sensibledave says:

      Headless

      You wrote “Why no City slicker shyster never went to jail or even saw a court room sensibledave, is just one more giant reason to loath/love this endlessly repellent UKOK union.”

      … and the “city slickers” living in Edinburgh and Glasgow Headless? The ones governed by Scottish law Heedy? Why didnt the Scottish courts convict anyone?

      Why do you think that everyone that lives in England is a City slicker Heedy? .. Oh, I know, I remember now, its because you are a brainless t**t.

      Finally, why do you feel the need to aim all of your “complaints” at me – as if I am to blame somehow … is it coz I is English?

    106. sensibledave says:

      Thepnr 4:38 pm

      You wrote “That’s a shame that you had to go off on a rant. I won’t respond in any way to you in future as I’m clearly wasting my time.”

      My apologies sir/madam, my “rant” should have been targeted solely at the stupid one ..i.e. Heedy. Sorry.

    107. TheWasp says:

      Notsensible Dave @ 4.03

      The Scottish people voted by a majority to leave the UK, the white settler, scrounger vote kept us shackled to their homeland.

    108. heedtracker says:

      So, take your ridiculous bile and shove it up your a**e… t**t!

      Haha, a sensibleD tantrum. What’s missing in your t**t!?

      Why you think Edinburgh or Glasgow had much if anything to do with collapse of world banking and the world economy, is a very sensibledave toryboy tantrum to thing to say.

      But I wont keep you with the causes and effects of the what and why sensible. The City is mot much to do with Scotland, although there are fair few slickers that have moved to Scotland and commute on the BA red eye. A lot of them do retire to their Scotland region too sensible, Deeside has a lot of them, and they certainly make their toryboy presence felt too.

      So to make it as simple as possible for even a tory twerp like you sensibled, the reason no City bankster ever saw the inside of a court room, for destroying world banks and the world economy, is because its not against the law.

      And the reason its not against the Law, either for Wall Street or City filthy rich bankster spivs, is because neither the red or the blue tory creeps will write it in to Law, that it should be a criminal offence, to ruin banks, steal peoples savings, pensions, investments and so on.

      And the red and blue tory creeps of the teamGB zone do not make Law to jail City banksters sensibleD because the exact same City banksters fund the red and blue tory creep shows, own all the UK tory press, beeb gimp network etc.

      Is that helpful sensibleD?

      Gordon Brown for example as Chancellor is interesting to think about sensibled, considering how a socialist worker like Gordon clearly had absolutely no idea just how bad the City slickers were, really really bad indeed.

      Or, Gordon Brown was in fact fully aware of just how bad City slickers were, no doubt still are, but he did nothing at all about any of it.

      Although Gordon did announce he had saved the world, after Obama’s administration borrowed near on a trillion dollars to bail out Scottish banks like RBS.

      So there you go sensibledave, the biggest industry in teamGB, run by insanely greedy too big to fail toryboy nutters.

      What all that UKOK catastrophe meant and still means for Scotland’s nascent democracy is sensibled, you tory twerp, is that the exact same unionist tory crew, via their beeb gimp network, then used their own tory fiscal staggering catastrofuck, to totally monster the average Scottish indy ref1 voter, simply because banks like RBS and the Bank of Scotland, all run entirely in to the ground and over the of the City abyss, that future nation state Scotland could never hope to even begin to cover the bail out costs of destroyed Scottish banks. And all by the exact City slickers that had destroyed them, under the watchful eyeball of Gordon Brown the chancellor of exchequer who had no idea what had happened, or did.

      We even had to endure the completly ghastly beeb Scotland crew rage at us that RBS would leave Scotland for ever, should we dare to even try and not be run by, well tory twerps like you sensibledave.

      It all Project Fear worked as we know ofcourse sensibled, tory twerps like you still own and run Scotland and the City too, and all held together by massed ranks of beeb Scotland attack propagandists.

      Its not fair but Life isn’t fair sensibledave, unless you;re a tory twit, like you really:D

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      @sensibledave
      It’s good you apologised to Thepnr, you are careless about who you respond to about what, and it wastes a lot of ire. People are indiviuals, not group consciousness ants.

      The main effect on reducing “disposable” will be with higher tax payers, and higher earners, and to a large extent they probably spend as much in the economy of Scotland as they want and that would be unchanged. What is more likely to be changed is savings which benefit Scotland little, or spendings while on foreign excursions, which benefits Scotland not at all, or even on trips to London to the theatre which has little benefit to Scotland apart from the start and end of trip.

      This is a cautious approach, just 1p, and is exceedingly unlikely to deter people from coming to Scotland or moving from it, it seems to me. The next year another 1p, do it in stages.

    110. K1 says:

      You’re a nasty wee shite Dave..what an utter tit you make of yourself on here.

      And so say we all.

    111. heedtracker says:

      You’re a nasty wee shite Dave..what an utter tit you make of yourself on here

      SensibleD’s merely a toryboy activist, teaching us a lesson in toryboy rule. Any back chat and they all wrap themselves in a big England flag, the cowards. Their morals stink to low hell, their socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor economic creep show stank from the day Snatcher Thatcher was shat into this farce union.

      And its all built on debt too. If the toryboy’s lose control of Scotland, their whole debt card mountain starts to slip and if Scotland can shake of immoral tory twerps like sensibleD, so will an awful lot of the teamGB zone too, won’t they toryboy sensible:D

    112. sensibledave says:

      heedy, K1 The wasp….. & yindy.

      To the Wasp …. just so I know, can you define Scottish for me please. You seem to to be suggesting that if a person is not actually born in Scotland, they can’t be Scottish. Its the old master race meme again.

      To K1… if, as you suggest, I am “nasty” to some here on Wings K1, please take the time to see what prompted my ire. I only respond to certain individuals in that manner when they write something beyond the pale. I am pretty thick skinned but I cant abide liars and people who stereotype the way some do on here.

      To Heedy … I see no point in responding …. because, as you prove every time you write, you are clearly the General of the SNP Master Race Army and nothing I do or say is going to influence you. T**t.

      To Yindy …. Sometimes yindy, the insults come so thick and fast from so many quarters, “innocents” may get caught in the cross fire. I apologised to thepnr – because I was wrong. Simple as that.

    113. TheWasp says:

      People can be Scottish if they want to be, I have no problem with that, and my wife’s best friend and her three daughters are Londoners who consider themselves Scottish, and when talking about Scotland use we or us.
      The majority of white settlers I was talking about don’t work, as my wife’s friend does, or go to college and university like her daughters.
      These incoming scroungers have worked in England their whole life, sold a high priced home on retirement and moved to the colony to buy a large cheap house/mansion to see out their days taking all the freebies the Scottish government give to the people in the country they are stewards of. These people will never stop being english as they do not work along side the population of the country to get any veiwpoints except their own blinkered superior English outlook, and their interactions are limited to shop assistants etc
      I worked beside English, Welsh, Irish, Bulgarians, Poles and even an American who considered themselves adopted Scots who weren’t “going home”, they were here today and for the long haul, not here to take what they can until the Scottish health service provide free care for their old age and final days

    114. TheWasp says:

      Dave

      I’ve just read your earlier reply again. You seem easily offended by perceived racist slurs, but like to dish out the master race shit, don’t you. I’ll not sling any racist slurs at you because I’m not racist in any way, but I’ll call you a fud as that is exactly what you are.

    115. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I would say @Dave McEwan Hill says 17 December, 2017 at 11:37 pm

      “On the media front think we should target the weakest first. That is the infantile Daily Express. Anybody got any ideas how we should go about this?”

      A Target Specific Hi Vis Social Media campaign against the individual businesses that advertise in it.

      Similar to The Nationals “Save Our Scotland Brand” campaign.

      But highlighting that the Tory Policies these rags support (thanks to the company/Non Dom Tax evading owners in questions advertising payments) kill the vulnerable.

      Cut off it’s funding and it will wither and die (although reports of recent BBC Regional Political Commissar Payments will try to sustain these rags for a wee while longer).

      Long overdue that “No Quarter” was given to the BritNat Media.

    116. sensibledave says:

      The wasp

      Read your last paragraph wasp. It sounds just like a “bloody immigrants coming up here and claiming benefits” rant.

      … you don’t even know you are doing it and you are certainly not in the least embarrassed are you.

    117. TheWasp says:

      Yes Dave that is exactly what it is, a rant about benefit scroungers who stopped us being independent, but a very particular kind.



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