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Tory Liar Of The Week (11-17 Dec 2017)

Posted on December 15, 2017 by

Because to tell you the truth, readers, we’re not sure the word “idiot” is accurate any more. The tweets you’re about to read are far beyond simple stupidity and well into the shadowy realms of deliberate falsehood. (Delivered in the secure knowledge that the media won’t challenge it, and in fact will probably exaggerate and amplify it further.)

So let’s start with one of the better-known dum-dums.

That’s serial bonehead Jamie Greene there, demonstrating that he can’t count up to two, because what he evidently meant to write was “two pictures say eleven words”.

This should be good.

We’ll show you the full version of that second pic, because an awful lot of Tory dimwits were tweeting it yesterday. It’s a Scottish Government graphic.

Greene’s other pic is a table of the new tax changes, showing who gains and loses from the budget. This is a clearer version of it, taken from the Daily Mail:

What we can see there is the much-cited and undisputed fact that nobody on less than £33,000 will pay any more tax under the new tax bands and rates. (Even on a pretty tasty £75K you’re only going to be down £3 a week from your £1,442 salary.)

But where on the first chart, in terms of that £33K threshold, is our nurse?

Oh. In fact the supposedly representative nurse Greene is wailing about is well under the £33K threshold, on around £31,600. She’ll therefore be slightly better off under the new tax bands, so what he means by “if you’re a nurse in Scotland you will pay more tax” is “if you’re a nurse in Scotland you will pay LESS tax”.

And to be fair to him, that’s 10 words right out of 11, bless his wee soul.

But what Greene oddly fails to mention is that the budget also ended the public-sector pay freeze and provided a guaranteed pay rise for public-sector workers like nurses.

For our “typical” nurse on £31,600 that means a 2% rise of an extra £632 a year, to offset the tax increase of, er, £0. It takes a quite special grasp of arithmetic to present that as them being worse off due to the budget.

As we learned earlier today, the other measure that’s being used by the opposition and media to attack the Scottish Government over the budget is that of earnings and taxes relative to people in the rest of the UK. But if our nurse is on £31,600 she’s in NHS pay band 6, which means she’s already better off than her counterparts to the south.

(As are nurses in all the other pay bands, including Band 5, where most actually are.) At £31,600 she’ll already have been on about £300 more than her English equivalent, so with the new budget measures she’ll be almost £1000 better off in relative terms.

(The Tories have pledged to end the freeze in England at some point in the next two years but haven’t provided any detail on when or by how much, while in Labour-run Wales the freeze is staying in place indefinitely, despite the party’s endless howling about how everyone ELSE should increase public-sector pay.)

None of this has troubled the Scottish Tories’ ironically-titled Head Of Research:

As far as we can establish the average teacher in Scotland (primary and secondary teachers are on the same pay scale) is actually making slightly less than a nurse, at £30,500. But if we take the graphic in good faith we find the one on just below £35,000 (which you in fact need to have been doing the job for six years to get):

And according to the table that still means zero extra tax. (If our teacher’s pay creeps over £35,000 the additional tax burden becomes a whopping £20 a year.) And as public-sector workers they’ll also be getting the guaranteed pay-rise, meaning they too will be hundreds of pounds a year BETTER off after the budget.

But is it worth it? Because according to former shopworker Annie Wells MSP, who now enjoys a salary more than twice the national average as an MSP, the budget is a savage attack on ambition and betterment.

We must assume from the above that she wasn’t “hard working” in her previous career, because apparently only rich people can be hard-working. And we must also assume that Wells’ own tax burden must have increased so much that it wasn’t even worth her doubling her previous wage. So let’s just look at the table again.

On an MSP’s salary of £60,000 we can see that Wells will have to fork out an extra £15 in income tax a year. Or put another way, just under TWENTY-NINE PENCE a week. And yeah, in fairness, when you look at it like that it hardly seems worth earning another £577 a week if you’re going to have to give 29p of it back in tax just to keep a load of scrounging schools and hospitals and fire stations running, does it?

But how many more will be suffering like poor Annie Wells?

According to the walking intellect-vacuum that is Dean Lockhart, the Tory list MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, Scotland has almost 400,000 nurses, police officers and train drivers alone, all of whom are apparently in for a tax clobbering. Which seemed like a lot, so we had a quick check.

Police Scotland currently employs somewhere in the region of 17,300 officers. NHS Scotland has roughly 59,800 nurses and midwifery staff. Which means Dean Lockhart thinks Scotland has nearly 314,000 train drivers, which would certainly go some way to explaining why it has the best rail punctuality figures in the UK.

(The actual number is approximately 1,570. Their starting salary is around £25,000 a year, so inexperienced ones would in reality be getting a tax cut too.)

Lockhart apparently believes that these hundreds of thousands of largely-imaginary public-sector workers – the vast majority of whom will be paying NO extra income tax, who’ll be getting a better pay rise than their UK counterparts, who will likely be exempt from LBTT and who are paying an average of £420 less in council tax than people in England and £250 less than those in Wales and getting better public services in return – are now about to desert Scotland en masse so that they can be much worse off.

Or rather, he expects YOU to believe that.

The Tories are fully aware that the claims they’ve made in the last 24 hours are flat-out lies. They know perfectly well that the overwhelming bulk of public-sector workers will be financially better off from this budget, and most of them by a decentish amount – hundreds of pounds. The numbers aren’t complicated and none of them are disputed.

Now, it’s entirely possible that they’re catastrophically stupid as well as being liars – Dean Lockhart and his 300,000 train drivers, or anything Annie Wells has ever said, are compelling evidence to support that proposition – but the second part can be in no reasonable doubt whatsoever.

(Indeed, most of the Tories above have actually tweeted the very evidence that proves they’re lying. That’s how thick they are.)

As for picking a favourite, we’ll leave that to you.

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      Tory Liar Of The Week (11-17 Dec 2017) | speymouth

    169 to “Tory Liar Of The Week (11-17 Dec 2017)”

    1. Andy-B says:

      I think it pretty obvious now that we’re way past the point of stupidity and deep into the realms of outright lying.

      The unionists are in part attempting to create a post truth Scotland based solely on emotion, and not facts.

    2. More lies and yet even more britnat lies

    3. call me dave says:

      This one of your best articles yet!

      Hope the anti independence lurkers are reading it and wondering
      if the SNP (SG) are really very bad or maybe it’s all these Tory and Labour leaders that are telling us those terminological inexactitudes.

      I think that your articles should allow you to be awarded a 3% increase in your living wage. 🙂

    4. Muscleguy says:

      I have never voted Tory (Blue or Purple varieties, the Red sort of course I have). And this tendency is one reason why I never have and why the Red Tories AKA New Labour lost my vote.

      I’m given to understand there is a Yellow variety but they are so insignificant I think it is safe to ignore them.

    5. Greannach says:

      The British Nationalists are expert at pumping out lies. Jamie Greene probably doesn’t have the intelligence he was born with and nobody believes its himself issuing these statements, but the BritNats have a well-coordinated machine.

      The Government and SNP need to have an equally slick operation. It’s not possible always to guess what tripe the BritNats will focus on, but we could guess it would be budgetary matters yesterday and today and over the weekend.

      It’s galling that very few in the media will pick up on the rebuttals, but well worth doing it to try and undermine the damage the lies are doing.

    6. Gullane No4 says:

      Good work Rev.
      What would we be without you.

      Love to see Derek MacKay using the 314,000 train driver comment in Holyrood.

    7. Tony Little says:

      They lie in the confident knowledge that no one in the MSM/BBC/STV will ever hold them to account, and in fact will usually reinforce these lies by allowing them to comment 24/7 completely unchallenged.

      Democracy left the UK sometime in the late 1990s. There remains only one way out; Independence: Use it or lose it.

    8. Mike d says:

      The gloves are off with these unionist scum.there is now not even a pretext at lying.

    9. heedtracker says:

      Great read! This is what its all about now, flat out bullshitter unionists, red and blue tory, their beeb gimp network led storm trooper attack propagandists, head to head, against Scottish democracy.

      Who will win:D

    10. galamcennalath says:

      For Unionists in general, and Tories in particular, there Is only one game in play …. SNPBaaad.

      Interpretation of facts and figures doesn’t come into it. They simply spew a lot of venom amounting to SNPBaaad, again.

      No matter what is said, done, achieved, proposed, or passed by the SNP it is attacked. If it can be spun negatively, it will. Failing that, they just generate false claims – lies in plainspeak. It has become so predictable that there are no surprises anymore.

      Is it working for them? It might keep some of their more gullible supporters on side, but more and more people see through it all. Folks make decisions based on what they see in their own lives, not on what a bunch of liars claim.

    11. Jack Murphy says:

      I’ll be sharing/talking about this article in the afternoon.

      This Wings piece is also on Facebook—-link at top of page. 🙂

      Back to work. 🙁

    12. LesRoches says:

      FMR…I have just come from work and read your latest gem. The Tories, red or blue, just cannot string a coherent sentence together, let alone an arguement.
      We really should crowd fund and get billboard poster put up with their trash on it, maybe this would deter them. Keep up the good work and best regards from France.

    13. findlay farquaharson says:


    14. One_Scot says:

      This is a major problem Scotland has.

      Having the whole of the media in your pocket means the unionists can say and make up whatever they want against the SNP in their bid to keep Scotland down, and the Yoon media will look the other way and even promote their lies.

    15. Macart says:

      Oh, that’s a keeper.

      Neatly done. 🙂

    16. Clarinda says:

      Listened to Jeremy Vine this morning interviewing a clear, calm and articulate Derek MacKay giving evidence-based facts and resources for his budget decisions and correcting the slewed nonsense dripping off the unionist press pages. To be followed, of course, by the gormless mumblings of Murdo – I mean gormless and mumbling – it appeared so garbled and rapid fire that the impression was a pre-written script to be stuck to – whatever the question. Naturally nothing was challenged unlike Mr MacKay who answered Mr Vine’s snippy remarks with integrity and patience. Some odd phone in calls later claiming incorrect details about the potential tax affects to be soundly rebuffed by Morag from Dundee (again) who calmly pointed out many of the points made in Rev Stu’s dissection of today’s Tory lies.
      I know it’s not really funny – but I cannot help myself when reading Rev Stu’s turn of phrase in attempting to describe the malicious stupidity of our craposition parties at Holyrood.

    17. winifred McCartney says:

      I repeat what I said yesterday – if a tories lips are moving or they are twittering they are lying – it’s in their DNA. As for the MSM they continue to wonder why no one is buying – well it’s because they’re lying and thankfully more and more of us know it.

    18. Clootie says:

      …but the general public will have these lies hammered home by unionist media. The truth is the first casualty in our MSM reports.

      Unionist are confident that every party press release, individual tweet or rant will be reported in full as accurate data. They know that the BBC will quote the press statements followed thereafter by unionist politicians at Holyrood quoting the “trustworthy BBC”. This is the constant circle of Scottish politics.

      ….journalists are no longer paid to investigate. Their role is purely that of propaganda maintenance.

    19. babsP says:

      I think what we need to challenge is the underlying assumption that (like the SNP) all tax is BAD. I think you may well find that very many people who are going to be paying a little more tax are more than happy to do so. Tax helps the vulnerable in society. When Children in Need can raise phenomenal amounts – £890M this year – because people want to help surely paying a little more tax knowing it is going to others who are in need is a GOOD thing to do. Maybe we need a “Happy to contribute more” movement to challenge this negative narrative.

    20. Capella says:

      Perhaps it’s a cunning plan. Confuse the voters with complete nonsense till they have no idea what is true and what is false.
      Then they will go to sleep and just focus on football, celebrity gossip and shopping.

      I think it’s called “hypernormalisation”.

    21. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Rev ah canny take any mair two days + weeks of pre budget comitareate Ronnie A signing off .

    22. Seven out of Ten Tax Payers in Scotland will pay less tax than they do now.This has completely wrong footed the Tories, Mackay has played a deft hand!

    23. Dan Huil says:

      Britnat lying continues with alacrity, primarily because the Britnat media will happily pass on these lies.

      It really is time the Scottish government does something about the bbc and the bbc tax. A reserved matter but if SNP politicians were to say they won’t be paying the bbc tax anymore…

    24. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      We are truly a resource-rich country.
      So many lies, so many idiot liars to choose from… =sigh=

    25. WE must ditch the current d’Honte system which allows these thick as pig shit freeloaders access to our Parliaent through the privileged back door.
      Sky, BBC, the Daily Mail, Tom Gordon in spades in the Herald Britland, churning out vicious evil shit and lies, to do what?
      To destroy our democracy and kill more of our fellow citizens through enforced poverty?
      I will never be in the same room as a Unionist of any fascist Red Blue or Yellow Tory Brit Nat colour.
      This guy Leonard has just dewstroyed Red labour/Tory Branch Office Up Here with his absolutely pointless remarks yesterday.
      They are a bunch of not very bright messengers of Evil.
      What a wonderful piece of debunkfuck, Stu.

    26. Legerwood says:

      It is OK. It is all going to disappear from the newspapers etc – Prince Harry and Meghan have just announced date of the wedding.

      Back Lon topic. The amount of misleading information and downright lies spouted by the MMS about the budget has been astonishing even by their low standards.

      For example, the Herald front page today had a sidebar giving details, supposedly, of the main points of the budget. First item, 3% pay rise ‘for civil servants and those on quangos’ No mention whatsoever about public sector workers such as nurses etc. No just mention the ones that people don’t have much time for.

      There was mention of the nurses etc and the pay rise buried in the more detailed report of the budget inside the paper.

      But job done with the front page.

    27. Arbroath1320 says:

      Thanks Stu for confirming what I have always thought …

      When it came time for brains and intelligence to be handed out all the Tories were at the BACK of the queue! 😀

    28. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      Perhaps it’s a cunning plan. Confuse the voters with complete nonsense till they have no idea what is true and what is false.

      That does seem to what’s happened. Whether it’s a plan or not, a hae ma doots!

      A lot of people really to have difficulty deciding what is the truth. Accordingly, they just turn off from the ‘they said, but we say’ circular debating. They make their minds up based on their own life experiences and those around them. So this budget will positively influence more people than beamed in propaganda. And I include many who will pay more tax because they will recognise that Holyrood tax goes on health, education, and public services.

    29. kininvie says:

      The Tory communications team have actually called this one badly wrong, and are not flexible enough to adjust – making their MSPs look very foolish. For starters, they were obviously convinced (or maybe even led to believe 🙂 ) that the 20% rate would go up – so prepared all the ‘Broken Promise’ schtick in their ‘Lines to take’ briefing, which the faithful duly tweeted out.

      Secondly, the last 24 hours on SM and indeed on radio vox pop interviews (including – remarkably – Stephen Jardine) have shown a massive level of support for small tax rises in exchange for maintained services.

      The point about the Goebbles ‘big lie, long enough’ thing is that it needs to have some – however small – basis in truth. That’s a point that Trump – and now the Tories – haven’t recognised.

    30. Legerwood says:

      Since train drivers seem to feature prominently in this here is something about their current pay.

      Current Pay:
      Newly Qualified Driver £35,829 Trainee Driver £26,003.
      Next Claim:
      1 April 2018
      Rest Day Working Sanction:
      Sanctioned until 31 March 2018
      Additional Comments:
      Sunday & Rest Day min payment Driver £178. Sunday Driving Allowance £1.47 for each Sunday duty worked

      They got a 4.6% pay rise last year. Scotrail train drivers are not the highest paid by any means.

      Details of Scotrail drivers terms and conditions here:

    31. Brian McHugh says:

      I’m a public sector worker (who hasn’t has a real terms pay rise for nearly 10 years) towards the higher end of the scale and have calculated that I will be slightly better off. It is mainly due to an extra penny pay rise being on every pound I earn, whereas an extra penny tax is only on the pounds earned over the allowance.

    32. Proud Cybernat says:

      “My Paul will know the answer – he watches the telly!”

    33. Dr Jim says:

      They’re not mistaken and they’re not entirely stupid

      They’re just lying, and their own supporters will perpetuate the lies to every gullible person who’ll listen and before the end of the week all of Torylabland will be repeating this garbage as fact

      Because they want to and the media want them to because…..

      The SNP must be destroyed, Da Da Da Daah!

    34. orri says:

      Far more probable is that there’s a deliberate overstatement of what public sector workers earn in order to retroactively justify the pay cap. Suddenly having the Conservatives champion people they’ve been trying to drive into private enterprise in order to cause a crisis is a bit of a brass neck.

    35. Artyhetty says:

      Excellent article. These people are not stupid, or thick, in the traditional sense of those words. They have however been awarded status and wages way above their ability and way above what they deserve, when all they are there to do is shaft Scotland, working closely with and for the UKGov, and definitely not working in the interests of Scotland.

      They take their orders from London, and London’s UKGov do not want Scotland to thrive and may well try to destroy Scotland, again.

      The SNP budget is fair and that is exactly how it should be. People should expect no less from their own government. More money in peoples’ pockets is more money for local and the wider economy. That is a good thing, and boosts the economy to the benefit of everyone. The UKGov, by putting more money into the hands and bank accounts of the most well off and the rich, are taking even more money out of the economy because thsoe people will bank their nice big bonus and or invest it overseas.

      I am no economist, but anyone can see that as soon as you sqeeze the people until the pips sqeak, the whole economy suffers, and those at the bottom are blamed for the resulting lack of money circulating, and therefore are punished and plunged into poverty by the UKGov.

      This should be unacceptable to everyone, as it affects everyone in the long term due to society becoming less harmonious. It’s not a utopia people want, just a fair and equal society. The tories are not stupid, they know what they are doing, and have the backing of a compliant UK Labour party.

      It’s divide and rule, and the tories/red tories are determined to keep things that way. Greedy, selfish, scheming, lying so and so’s. The Britnats are determined not to allow facts get in the way of their own, selfish, destructive, agenda. It’s disgraceful actually.

      But Scotland is on a much more positive, life affirming path and that is the way we will be keeping it!

    36. Auld Rock says:

      I didn’t realise that the Jackie Baillie, ‘Idiots Guide to Basic Arithmetic’ was so widely read by the yoons!

    37. Effijy says:

      Another Scary thing is that only the Rev has bothered to tell the truth and put this in perspective?

      In summary,valuable assets the Scotland, such as Nurses, get more pay than their Tory Controlled English Counterparts, they pay less in Council Tax, their patients get more money spent on them per head, they will see the Tory 1% pay cap broken to give them a merited increase, and their NHS is not being sold off piece by piece.

      Now would I rather be in England or be an English Nurse?

      Not on your Life!

    38. Drew Lonie says:

      Excellent stuff as usual Stu? this wee budget has them rattled on all sides eh?

    39. Bob Mack says:

      They are not idiots. They are out and out liars. An idiot has an excuse, but these people do not,

    40. David McCann says:

      Here’s a suggestion for what its worth rev.
      Why dont you send these facts in a slightly different form- say a press release, to all the major news outlets in Scotland, and maybe C4 news?
      At least, it will make them think twice about printing outright lies

    41. galamcennalath says:

      Tories aren’t idiots, but clearly they believe a lot of ordinary folks are!

      They lie on the basis that they will be believed.

      What have they and their Union become, when the only tactic is deceit?

    42. IZZIE says:

      Sorry to be pedantic but I know you are a stickler for accuracy. Unless things have changed since I entered the profession new entry teachers who are mature students enter at the top of the non promoted scale.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve just realised that of all the WOS readers and contributers about a hundred thousand of us must be train drivers

      Hands up then

    44. Gary45% says:

      Tories lie about everything, No Morals, No Honesty, No Decency, basically No FUKALL.
      I heard the Queens Eleven “Comedy Heid” on Shortbread this morning, jings what an AR*EHOLE.
      “Jammy” Greene, just another lying Bast*rd in the long line of pig ignorant lying Tory Bast*rds. “Jammy” because some thick numpties voted for him or was he a in the back door list ars*hole?
      Apologies for using the word Tory in the post, I know it causes offence, but sometimes only Tory will do.
      Tory a more offensive word than C*nt

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      Now I may well be wrong but in my opinion the real bad guys are not the congenital idiots that the Scottish voting list system has bequeathed to the Scottish electorate.

      These poor brainless idiots have to be put somewhere to keep them, as my old Grandfather used to say, “oot o the road o the cairts”, now that the asylums for the mentally ill have been closed.

      No the real wilfully evil culprits are the media that The Westminster Establishment has imposed upon the people of Scotland that feeds upon their host like a cestode in the digestive tract of a host.

      (Note: cestodes = Tapeworms and I quote:-

      “Tapeworms are a type of parasite that can live inside a person’s intestines. Doctors may refer to tapeworms as cestodes. Tapeworms are a type of flatworm with a long ribbon-like body with many segments, sometimes growing 4.5-9m (15-30ft) in length.

      They have a small head with hooks and suckers.

      Oops! I thought that last bit had said, “crooks and fu … Err! Perhaps not.

    46. Rock says:

      “Tory Liar Of The Week (11-17 Dec 2017)”

      Its only the 15th of December.

      Plenty of time for more Tory liars to beat him before the week is over.

      Never trust a Tory.

      Never waste a penny or a second trying to convince a Tory to vote Yes.

    47. Arbroath1320 says:

      Nice to see the Tories opening their silver spoon lined gobs and spouting shite isn’t it? 😀

      You can not keep a good lie ridden Tory down … as the saying goes. So here is proof of that simple fact!

    48. Rock says:

      “Because to tell you the truth, readers, we’re not sure the word “idiot” is accurate any more. The tweets you’re about to read are far beyond simple stupidity and well into the shadowy realms of deliberate falsehood.”

      Rock (19th September 2014 – The country that wasn’t):

      “We haven’t lost – we have been cheated of victory.

      In many comments, I had warned that the British establishment must never be underestimated – they are NOT idiots or clowns.”

    49. Kennedy says:

      When the public see their pay packets this will increase support for the SNP. Excellent!

      The public needs to realise the only people that can make life better are the public, but they must pull their fingers out, stand up and be counted. The tipping point is approaching. Once again Excellent!

    50. Rock says:

      “(Indeed, most of the Tories above have actually tweeted the very evidence that proves they’re lying. That’s how thick they are.)”

      I agree with them being liars but disagree with them being thick.

      They are doing it deliberately, as they always have, knowing that the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

      Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, that does not mean all people in Scotland are stupid. It just means that if you were looking for the most stupid people on earth, Scotland would beat any other nation on earth.

    51. Bob Mack says:

      Annie (Hyacinth Bucket) Wells is a doozey. Talk about getting above yourself right enough. Yes Dear.

    52. wull2 says:

      Some of the people who post things on here, must be Piolets.
      Fly people who only see their path, and not the whole country.

    53. Old Pete says:

      If qualified teachers with years of experience earn less than a newly qualified train driver I’m amazed we have the number of school teachers we have.
      The public sector workers have had effectively pay cuts for the last decade, doubt if a 2% pay rise but a hike in tax is going to lead in a large increase in the number of school teachers supporting independence ?

    54. desimond says:

      Are train drivers in the public sector?

    55. Graeme McCormick says:

      Anyone who has been asked to pay a little bit more in tax and complains about it is “ a Taker” rather than a “Giver”. I invariably found during the Independence Campaign that the Yessers were Givers while the No crowd were the Takers.

      When you hear such people complain just ask them if they are a Taker or a Giver. It’s amazing how uncomfortable they become.

    56. Old Pete says:

      desimond 4:29
      “Are train drivers in the public sector?”
      If train drivers in Scotland were in the public sector do you think they would be paid less than a school teacher or are the worth 20% more than a school teacher?
      Amazing so many people still want to be school teachers.

    57. admiral says:

      Graeme McCormick says:
      15 December, 2017 at 4:36 pm
      Anyone who has been asked to pay a little bit more in tax and complains about it is “ a Taker” rather than a “Giver”. I invariably found during the Independence Campaign that the Yessers were Givers while the No crowd were the Takers.
      When you hear such people complain just ask them if they are a Taker or a Giver. It’s amazing how uncomfortable they become.

      Couldn’t agree more.

      The naysayers probably benefit from their kids having free college/university tuition fees, they benefit from their elderly relatives having free prescriptions and free at-point-of-use personal care and still they still find reason to moan.

      I wonder if they would be happy if the Scottish Government proposed that taxes stay the same as rest of the UK, but there is means testing for the above benefits!

    58. K1 says:

      Maybe you’re the thickest person in Scotland Rock, don’t tarnish us all wi your broad defamatory brush.

      You’re so thick that you write pish like this:

      Rock says:
      15 December, 2017 at 3:53 pm
      Did the “independence supporting” The National put the record straight?

      Or did it lie as much as its elder sister, The Herald?’

      Only an thick oaf like you would write such a thick comment like that. It’s as if you really want some poor sod to come on to Wings and think that the National isn’t covering the news in Scotland. But you yourself are so thick that you can’t click on a browser page to check it out for yourself, instead taking the time to write that thick comment instead?

      Are you thick or what?

      Now stop being such a thicko and read the damn things.

    59. galamcennalath says:

      Twitter ….

      ” Nicola Sturgeon

      It is staggering how enraged @ScotTories are at those on higher incomes being asked to pay a little bit more to protect public services (while the 70% on low and middle incomes get small tax cut) – but don’t bat an eyelid when their own party cuts the incomes of disabled people. “

      They are making a fuss about the better off being asked to pay a wee bit more for services, and as Nicola says, they take money from the most vulnerable and poorest. Absolute scum, what else can you call them?

    60. SeanW92 says:

      I think, for a laugh (but also to illustrate a point), the SG should offer an optional two-tiered system for the people of Scotland.

      Tier 1 would be for those wishing to have “regulatory alignment” with rUK (prescription fee’s, hospital carpark charges, paid prescriptions etc.)

      Tier 2, would carry on in the same trajectory outlined in yesterdays budget but as a caveat you have to tick the yes box in a postal ballot for indy ref 2. We’ll have our independence in no time. har-har-har! 😉

    61. Andy-B says:


      250 Rosyth workers to lose their jobs, because a Royal Navy crew don’t want to come to Scotland.

      Are you feeling the love yet.

    62. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers I’ve purloined your 3.55 post ( Pure Class ) its been reposted on Scot & other Yes pages .

    63. Lzzy says:

      The only thing about the nurses wage is they could easily be band 5 earning that wage with antisocial hours. I am a band 5 nurse in the middle of the banding scale but have to work so many nights and weekends that I probably end up with about 31k not 27k which is my salary.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mystic prophets of SNP Baaaad or clueless, neo-liberal, BritNat, strokers? 😉

      Constructivist Theory

    65. Tinto Chiel says:

      Your last two debunking threads have been top form, Rev, and show clearly and rationally how utterly desperate and anti-Scotland the whole MSM are.

      For a bit of festive fun, I recommend reducing any Blue/Red/Yellow Tory Yoons you happen to meet socially to frothing ectoplasm by quoting O.W. Holmes: “Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society.”

      Don’t you agree, suckas? No, how so?


    66. Dr Jim says:

      Tax giveaway for 70% of English low paid workers:

      That’s the headline you’d see if we were England, but we’re not we’re in Scotland where one week we have no economy then the next our economy that we don’t have is dire, the same as we have oil then no oil then worthless oil, none of the above which we’ve ever had because it’s always been UK oil

      Now the final straw and resort from the Tories to deflect the slower thinker is *The Russians are coming* to cut off our internet when in fact probably the only people interested in cutting off our internet are the Tory government in order to stop folk telling the truth about them

      Last week they were complaining about Russia having programmes on the telly and projecting stuff on to our internet now they say the Russians want to cut us off prior to a big war, just pish and utter pish

      New story today is the British Navy don’t want to come to Scotland so the Tories will have to cut jobs
      What a giant load of the most extreme Bollox on the planet I’ve ever heard in my life
      Have the British navy got a Union now, do sailors get to decide where the Government sends them now
      Oooh us Navy chaps would rather go to the Bahamas than Scotland is that OK then, and the MOD says OK you chaps if you say so, then the Army might decide Hawaii might be nice this time of year so it’s a NO from them to Afghanistan

      England and it’s propaganda has become the blocked toilet of the UK and the damn sooner we’re out of this moronic infantile excuse for a Union and away from it’s wooden headed supporters won’t be soon enough for me

      What kind of dense people believe this backed up lavatory of misinformation

    67. Bill McDermott says:

      Why don’t we start a meme along the lines of the ‘Lying Tories’ in the same way that Trump kept the phrase ‘Crooked Hilary’ to the fore during his presidential campaign.

      I know we won’t want to be associated with Trump, but you must admit it was effective and in this case very accurate!

    68. PacMan says:

      While this topic is focusing on public sector jobs, the majority of Scots work in the private sector, including myself. The majority of private sector workers earn a lot less than nurses.

      The majority of Scots will read these newspapers and will then read their pay packet. When it comes to the bottom line, it is obvious which one they will believe.

    69. Bob Mack says:

      Oh how I long for the old days when most people paid 33% basic rate and 75% on top rate. You just did because it was necessary ,and because you had little option. What has made people so greedy and self centred?

    70. heedtracker says:

      Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, that does not mean all people in Scotland are stupid. It just means that if you were looking for the most stupid people on earth, Scotland would beat any other nation on earth.

      Not if youre being lied to on scale probably never been seen before, outside wartime, Rock.

      Just past a Scottish haha newsstand and thought of you Rock. Its a complete newsprint nuclear explosion of SNP bad, or rather Nic Sturgeon bad and it is quite a culture shock, compared to the completely different banner headlines in merry olde England.

      The SUN pervs are probably the best though, Santa Claws with a hand pulling big bundles of lolly out of a pocket, could be Sturgeon’s hand too.

      Thing is Rock, in this explosion of piles and piles SNP bad neo fascist tory UK press garbage, The National is sold out:D

    71. I’m sure Reporting Scotland and the other commercial Propaganda outlet on the other side will headline with this scandal, this deliberate programme of lies from the Better Together Yoon Brit Nats.Glenn Campbell will interview Ruth Davidson ‘live’ for just this once, demanding that she sack all the liars, bigots, racists, and sexual deviants in the Ruth Davidson’s Party immediately.
      Blair McDougall is probably on twitter right now condemning The Red Tory Branch Office for shacking up with the Blue and Yellow Brit Nat Tories in mounting this vicious programme of lies and threats, designed to maintain the English Parliament’s hold on its colony, and through continuing the reward the rich starve the poor Austerity scam, send tens of thousands of their fellow Scots to early graves, and condemn over a quarter of a million of our children to a lifetime of poverty and suffering.
      They are a bunch of heartless low intellect bastards who would visit mass murder on us just for England’s shilling.
      I have now no time for them. When Brewer Campbell or Taylor sell any more of this pish as fact, then we shall condemn it throughout the world.
      Good tidings we bring.
      Scotland will be free within 24 months. If the Yoons don’t like it, they can fuck off back to their green and pleasant cricket field.
      Well, that’s what the white English folks are telling furriners and Sweaties to do Down There in Sussexland, isn’t it?
      They don’t even care if they lie so blatantly any more.
      We are on the brink, lads and lasses.

    72. Thepnr says:

      A Tour de Force Rev. Don’t drop your guard for a moment.

    73. call me dave says:

      Jings! Forget the budget it’s all about growth in Scotland says radio shortbread.

      Douglas Fraser doing a double act with the Pacific Quay presenter Gillian in keeping Scotland in it’s place.

      Too poor growth (0.7) only 50% of the rUK (1.4) predicted.

      Scotland oil industry crap

      Innovation and research not set to improve.

      The rich will switch to taking dividends (paid to WM) and avoid the latest budget

      Ageing population a burden.

      Population increase in Scotland very low.

      Quite upset me really… 🙂

      Good old auntie’s red squirrel swings into action there when all else fails.

    74. Shug says:

      Post truth unionism at its best

    75. Legerwood says:

      Looking at the ‘below the line’ comments it would appear that a lot of people do not know the difference between earnings and taxable income. The latter is the amount that will be taxed AFTER the personal allowance is deducted from your earnings.

      For example, next year the PA will be £11,850 which means someone earning £26,000 will pay tax on £14,150 which under the new tax proposals will result in a tax cut of £20 over the tax year compared to what they would pay if the £14,150 Was taxed at 20% as now.

      If you have taxable income of £26,000 You would need to earn £37,850 and you would pay more tax under the new system – about £4 odd per week.

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      What has made people so greedy and self centred?

      The rapid nature of social change in late modernity, has left folk a bit lacking in a sense of security. Most traditional moral authorities and constraints have lost their strength and loosened, but we haven’t replaced them with anything more substantial than consumerism. Then there’s the 40 plus year of neo-liberal programming through the culture industry, which has intensively promoted ego-centered individualism.

      Something has to change and I reckon independence would give Scotland the ideological space to prove that there is an alternative.

      Flight into Security: A New Approach and Measure of the Authoritarian Personality


      A basic pattern of human response to stressful and uncertain situations which provoke anxiety and insecurity is to seek security and shelter. Those who provide support become by a process of psychological attribution authorities. Therefore the mechanism of seeking support and shelter under strained conditions might be called an “authoritarian reaction.” Socialization involves a negotiation with this basic reaction of flight in situations of uncertainty. As individuals develop, they learn to overcome the authoritarian reaction by formulating their own strategies to cope with reality. The authoritarian personality emerges out of an inability to generate such individual coping strategies.

      Authoritarian personalities defer to the dictates and control of others who offer them the certainty and comfort they cannot provide for themselves. Extensions of this basic authoritarian response are the rejection of the new and the unfamiliar, rigid adherence to norms and value systems, an anxious and inflexible response to new situations, suppressed hostility, and passive aggression. A new measure based on items on one’s own behavior, feelings, motivation, and the individual’s concept of the self was developed and tested in several empirical studies. It obtained a good reliability and proved to be valid by correlating to measures of right-wing extremism, negative attitudes toward immigrants and women.

    77. Tinto Chiel says:

      “What has made people so greedy and self centred?” asks Bob Mack.

      I think Thatcher legitimised feelings which had been damped down by the communality of UK post-war austerity (but what happened to all that lovely Marshall Plan money, peeps?) just as Farage and Trump have allowed the English and the Americans to release their inner racist, if they have one, and all with the help of MSM.

      In any case, Bob, it’s clear from your post that you are a raging Bolshevik with a hot-line to Putin 😛


    78. gfaetheblock says:

      MSPs do not earn £60k, they earn £61.778k. In an article about accuracy of others numbers, it would help to be accurate with your numbers.

      Of course, this assumes this the MSPs only income, i don’t think that they ever got round to banning income from second jobs, columns in newspapers, etc, although they are probably canny enough to have a tax efficient vehicle to avoid tax on that

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      Snap. 🙂

      Introduction to Radical Constructivism

    80. Dr Jim says:

      Comrade Harvie doing his usual demand for increases to local council funding for the councils who refused to increase council tax when they had the opportunity to do so
      So who’s side are you on Comrade, I think we know the answer to that, YOURS!
      North Lanarkshire council plays it’s Joker by saying they’re cutting school buses for infants forcing them to walk on icy pavements far distances from schools
      Nothing like using the kids to anger the parents into hating the SNP eh

      But will they fall for this obvious Labour tactic, well whether they do or not North Lanarkshire council will make it awkward enough for parents to get angry at somebody and as we know it’s tradition to blame somebody, so SNP?


      Do we know how much cash local councils collect in fair and unfair parking charges, or should that be legal and illegal parking charges

      I’ve never seen a figure for that

      Anybody know?

    81. Bill Weir says:

      I am absolutely ashamed of morons who have taken to fb and twitter whinging and in full grievance mode. The compliant media full of lies today on the new tax regime. Well done to NS and Derek given that WM cut the block grant to Scotland, forcing SNP into their tax trap only to find it has all ended in tears for the Britnats. One thing I do fear is that there will be some greedy individuals planning a tax dodge on Scotland so I wonder how many of those with negative comments actually accept free uni, free prescriptions, lower council taxes than rUK, the list is endless. Nobody likes paying taxes but the shady blue, red and yellow deadbeats and their media are masters at acting like Mr Mcawber.

    82. Vote Tory and join the selfish greedy elite.
      A Tory budget would reduce taxes for the rich, and close hospitals, swimming baths, libraries, and Freedom of Movement throughout Europe.
      Ruth Davidson is a member of a self anointed Elite, from which most of the rest of us are excluded because we don’t have money, our parents weren’t aspirational middle class wonks, or we speak with ‘common’ accents.
      WE are at war with these liars, robbers, and fascists now.
      Fat chinless wonders for whom nobody voted are given carte blanche by BBC STV Sky, and every fucking paper Blah to lie without being challenged and condemned publicly as society damaging liars and thieves.
      I am beyond enraged, guys.
      BBC PQ, wise fucking up. You are contributing to killing thousands of Scots each year.
      It’s not ‘only politics’.
      They are killing off Civic Scotland.
      And the Red Tory Branch Office appoints a speaking pamphlet as its leader.
      Is Richard Leonard a cardboard cut out from 1965?

    83. Cactus says:

      Scotland should be an independent country.

    84. shiregirl says:

      Cactus says:
      15 December, 2017 at 6:55 pm
      Scotland should be an independent country.

      Sweet Tracey Emin, it should be Pal.

    85. starlaw says:

      Re North Lanarkshire Council

      Were the School buses not stopped several weeks ago, or was this another yoon council.

    86. Tinto Chiel says:

      CameronB B: but I understood everything that Ernst was saying in your clip…

      What’s happening to me?

    87. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Jack Collatin (6.35) –

      ‘Is Richard Leonard a cardboard cut out from 1965?’

      Feeling your pain brother…

      Aye, Richard Leonard was in a very early episode of Lost In Space, playing a wasted spermatozoa, but he ended up on the cutting room floor. He later found brief fame wearing big blue wooly Y-fronts in a John Collier advert. Allegedly.

      Have a braw Friday night abody!

      And where’s all the lurkers! Come on now – we’ve seen enough new tattie-scone-rolls this week, let’s see some new *real* Wingers!

    88. CameronB Brodie says:

      IMHO, Scottish Conservatives need to decide whether they are New Right/Tory, or if they are traditional [c]onservatives who value democracy and the health and well-being of their local and national communities. Brexit will undoubtedly impact negatively on Scotland’s future.

      Back to the Future: Authoritarian Neoliberal Regime versus Democratic Social State

      The destiny of the 20th century, especially after the WWII, has been determined and shaped by the multifaceted confrontation between capitalism and “communism”, the West vis-a-vis the East. But history did not end in 1991, as some have tried to convince you; its course has furthermore been accelerated on the wings of Neoliberal Globalism, eroding the social world, reconfiguring the state institutions and generating severe economic conditions and complex realities, from which plants of Authoritarianism have started to sprout and branch out….


      The Terror of Neoliberalism: Authoritarianism and the Eclipse of Democracy.

      Not only does neoliberalism in this instance empty the public treasury, hollowout public services and limit the vocabulary and imagery available to recognizeanti-democratic forms of power and narrow models of individual agency, it also undermines the socially discursive translating functions of any viable democracy by undercutting the ability of individuals to engage in the continuous translation between public considerations and private interests by collapsing the public into the realm of the private(76).

      From Authoritarian Liberalism to Economic Technocracy: Neoliberalism, Politics and ‘De-democratization’


      Neoliberalism is often sharply contrasted with collectivist ideologies, including conservatism and fascism as well as socialism. This paper challenges such a characterization as too one-sided, focusing on neoliberalism in the context of ‘crises’ of liberal modernity, highlighting significant areas of overlap with authoritarian conservative and neo-fascist critiques of the rise of ‘mass democracy’ in the 1930s, and the common project to resist the politicization of the market economy and constitutional order. This project was applied and adapted in the post-1945 context, and specifically the second crisis of liberal modernity in the 1960s and 1970s, which turned to insights from the Chicago School to support economic technocracy over democracy. It was in this context that neoliberals developed either a more explicit authoritarianism in order to resist the demands of democracy, or the reconstruction of governance according to market principles, both designed to ‘de-democratize’ the liberal democratic political order.

    89. Thepnr says:

      I’m very impressed by Derek McKays budget he really did try to make things fairer and despite what the Tories say most of them will be satisfied as they may have expected worse.

      I can only imagine though a real Scottish budget the first after Independence, it should be possible to improve things for the majority when you have all the powers.

      I’ve nothing at all against people making good money or enjoying any success that growing a successful business might bring them. I’d just like them to share their good fortune with those that are less fortunate, After all it wouldn’t be possible without the efforts of those they employ.

      As far as the media goes…

    90. TheItalianJob says:

      @Thepnr at 8pm

      “I’ve nothing at all against people making good money or enjoying any success that growing a successful business might bring them. I’d just like them to share their good fortune with those that are less fortunate”

      Spot on and I’m totally in agreement. Many similar posts being made on the Scots budget that reflects this statement.

      This is what the majority of most Scots think and support. This is what differentiates us from the many who support the opposite view of thinking of themselves only and not the well being of the general population.

      Still can’t get my head around why we don’t have Yes around 60-65% but then again we know what we are up against the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories. Oh and the lying MSM.

    91. wull2 says:

      Some posters ask, What makes some people greedy.
      TV programs like, Homes under the hammer.
      How many have you seen when the people on the show lose money, and how many have you seen with a large collection of houses… How many of the readers think are greedy, selfish people. Vote YES next time.

    92. velofello says:

      Patience gals and guys, patience. The SNP have another three years to continue to model our society on the Nordic style.

      Meantime Westminster will shell out circa £50 billion from the money tree to pay off the EU and regain sovereignty. Sovereignty, what does that mean exactly? Well Westminster has voted that themselves the sovereign power to change the Scotland Act.And when no longer a EU member Westminster with sovereign power will not be required to deal with offshore banking.

      Brexit will be a disaster for the working and professional classes of employment.Bondage if you like.

    93. Macart says:

      That Annie Wells quote is quite a statement.

      I’ve cleaned toilets, cleared land, worked in kitchens, pubs, clubs, office admin, re-educated myself and began a new career and been self employed over the past thirty seven years. Safe to say I’ve put the hours in.

      I don’t grudge more fortunate folk their success. Wouldn’t mind a bit of that fortune masel’ tbh. I’ve never got anywhere near £30K a year in my life and never will. Never owned a house or a new car and get my togs off the sales peg in TOFS (XL natch). I may still have shit under my fingernails, but no one tells me that I haven’t worked hard, that I haven’t had aspirations or that I’m less than any other human being because I don’t earn what they do.

      Pretty sure I’m not alone in that criteria.

      Ms Wells should hang her head in shame.

    94. Proud Cybernat says:

      What Macart said 9:51pm.

      Well spoken, my friend. These Scots Tories just can’t see beyond THEMSELVES.

    95. Scottish Red/Blue Tories still spouting Thatcher/Reagan mantra,that `Greed is Good`

      Just looking through `The World Inequality Report 2018`

      America,Russia,China,India,Arabia all show the continuing trajectory of wealth from public to private and from poor to rich,

      the only major trading block that seems to bucking the trend is Europe,(although still a large gap)

      this is the real reason the English establishment want away from EU controls and regulations,

      this is also why we need to get out of the clutches of the English establishment and their lickspittle Scottish minions,

      we need a referendum before Brexit,UK Gov has ability to dissolve our Parliament,

      if we lose we are just as f#cked as if we didn`t have vote.

    96. Faltdubh says:

      If anyone has had the misfortune to see Jamie Greene’s gormless face when Holyrood is sitting will know that I’m guessing he being very stupid rather than trying to spin anything wrongly.

      I’m amazed he’s an MSP.

    97. crazycat says:

      @ Macart

      Annie Wells should hang her head, but they weren’t her words; umpteen different Tory accounts were tweeting the same thing, word for word, with at most two or three personalized sound bites at the start.

      She’s nothing more than a vehicle for press releases.

    98. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Proud C, Macart, Crazycat –

      If you check WOS Twitter, it seems that Annie Wells may have annoyed someone into revealing rather more about her than anyone wanted to know…especially her boss, Ruthy D.

    99. Sinky says:

      Disappointing that Kevin Scholfield didn’t point out on BBC paper review that SNP made hospital car parking free except where Gordon Brown’s PFI contracts made it exorbitant to do so.
      Is it too much to hope that Scottish political commentators would keep the UK informed accurately

    100. Macart says:

      @Ian B

      Clocked it.


      Somehow I’m not surprised. They should ALL hang their heads. Then again they are Tories.

    101. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Cameron: “Flight into security”


      More spooks, pakis and slavs you ignorant peons. It’s good for you, and you’re backward, crazy, or scaredy-cats if you dare say you don’t like it.
      When the wise wop spoke about the happiest individuals being the ones who adapt, I’m pretty sure he didn’t have an image of a man with a rictus grin on his face as he stood in his house and was crushed by the weight of the new second chimney – made compulsory by law to take away the fumes from the chocolate fireplace – on his collapsing roof.

    102. galamcennalath says:

      Far right Brexiteers like Rees Mogg and Farage aren’t happy bunnies. News and twitter full of their reactions. They aren’t happy with the divorce deal and now they are furious at the EU’s proposed implementation period. None of this fits with their cliff-jump-Brexit.

      Thing is, if by some miracle the UK does stay in the single market indefinitely, these people will continue their fight for totally turning backs on the EU. Eurosceptic Tories will cause trouble in their party, UKIP will campaign hard again, and potentially nastier creatures will crawl out from under rocks.

      One way or another this Brexit shitestorm is going to last many years.

      Scotland has to dissolve this Union, and do so soon.

    103. dakk says:

      I didn’t realise nurses and teachers were so well paid and lightly taxed.

      Knew about train drivers though.Nouveau riche right enough.

      Good to see Cactus back.

    104. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      I’m not sure I got your meaning.

    105. K1 says:

      Anyone care tae guess who spoke the original words ascribed tae Annie Wells and others from the Tory party furiously tweeting the ‘quote’ today?

      Here he is in during the ‘draft’ budget session from yesterday’s session in the parly.

      About 39:10 secs in:

    106. K1 says:

      Yes…and it’s him we should be pressing on this statement, she just copied like the little sockpuppet she is…c’mon guess before clicking the link, you won’t be a bit surprised…

      Rev? You should broadcast this piece, he needs our ire to be aimed at him as he is the one who stated this first in the parliament yesterday?

    107. dakk says:

      EU body language tonight says definite soft Brexit with UK paying more for SM access and no influence over EU policy allowing EU Army etc.

      Result for the EU and the Navy blue passport fiends.

    108. heedtracker says:

      Far right Brexiteers like Rees Mogg and Farage aren’t happy bunnies. News and twitter full of their reactions. They aren’t happy with the divorce deal and now they are furious at the EU’s proposed implementation period. None of this fits with their cliff-jump-Brexit.”

      Our imperial masters have a lot of pressing Brexit shit coming down the pipe very soon.

      Note how its all England. England has several giant air transport hubs, all vying for Heathrow biz and not just Gatwick. East Midlands has the DHL pan Europe hub for example.

      All of the English giant airport hubs have 21st century transport infrastructure road and rail linkage. SLabour yoon culture farted the Edinburgh tram £1.5bn chaotic farcical waste into our Scottish lives.

      But air transport hub wise, Scotland has none, sweet fcuk all. There’s lovely commute flights to London though, Glasgow and Aberdeen especially, very pleasant.

    109. crazycat says:

      @ Ian B

      Yes, I saw the exposé of Annie.

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      By an incredible coincidence – or is it – Dugdale was sent to Coventry on Thursday by her “fellow” Labour MSPs, and that 390,000 figure for nurses, police and train drivers in Scotland, exactly matches the population of Coventry, all of who can now be presumed to have all been nurses, police and train drivers and emigrated to Scotland overnight after Dugdale was sent there by her heartless fellow MSPs.

      They presumably fked here because of the better nett wages, higher standard of living and superior standard of life. Which Dugdale no dount told them about on the jungle grapevine. Hooray!

    111. Thepnr says:


      Thanks for the link to the budget speech I hadn’t seen any of it before as otherwise engaged.

      Anyway I got the answer wrong, thought it would have been Prof. Tomkins.

      That SNP Nat Derek Mackay is pretty quick on his feet is he not 🙂

    112. Iain mhor says:

      They train drivers eh? Wha’s like them?
      Went tae be a train driver once (harder tests than a pilot apparently – aye it wiz a tough selection course right enough, nae kiddin)
      Passed aptitude but failed the political interview.
      Mibbe it’s different noo, but no in the day. Full on political interview was part of the selection process.
      That was Labour for ye…

    113. Clapper57 says:

      Excellent as usual.

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      By an incredible coincidence – or is it – Dugdale was sent to Coventry on Thursday by her “fellow” Labour MSPs, and that 390,000 figure for nurses, police and train drivers in Scotland, exactly matches the population of Coventry, all of whom can now be presumed to have been nurses, police and train drivers and emigrated to Scotland overnight after Dugdale was sent there by her heartless fellow MSPs.

      They presumably fled here because of the better nett wages, higher standard of living and superior standard of life. Which Dugdale no doubt told them about on the jungle gr*pevine. Hooray!

    115. Thepnr says:


      A few on here thought you’d gone to Coventry yourself. Posted as missing 🙂

    116. Iain mhor says:

      I’d better qualify… I’ve nothing, absolutely nothing against train drivers – I wanted tae be one.

    117. Dr Jim says:

      Annie Wells a woman who found her way into the Scottish parliament by more luck than judgement and zero education should at least cotton on to the fact if she kept her mouth shut and her head down she’d have a few years of pulling in wages she could never have earned in a real job

      Even though she’s simply trotting out other peoples words she must realise folk who know her will know she’s a thicko who had a bit of good luck and not to push it and expose her own stupidity for everybody else to see

      Still she’ll get a few years of good money for doing what she’s told and saying what’s been written down for her and then it’ll be over and back to the checkout for Annie Wailes

      Did I spell that correctly Annie or should I ask sumdy!

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      Cheers. Wife is fine, out of hospital over a week and at home recovering nicely, but she very nearly died two weeks ago last monday (seems like a lifetime). Ambulance, Inverclyde, transfer to RAH, going down for CT but internal bleeding got worse, rushed into theatre, 3 hours, great doctors saved her life, and found and sorted the problem at the same time (huge ovarian cyst). It’s been a worrying 4 weeks, and gives a different perspective and priority on life.

    119. Thepnr says:


      Well that puts everything into perspective for me. I wish your wife a speedy recovery. We should all be thankful for the SNHS.

    120. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, from the moment an hour and a half after calling 999 that the ambulance arrived, to 23 and a half hours later when she was in HDU after recovery and the operation, and her week stay in Ward 32 she was in great hands, the best, can’t thank them enough. Can’t say the same I’m afraid about the ambulance prioritisation, the previous one having had the free morphine shot got up and walked out of A&E, “couldn’t be bothered waiting”, and it was all over days before the “urgent” CT scan would have happened arranged by the GP (who should in hindsight have called an ambulance on the spot days earlier during our doctor visit). Plus NHS24 complete waste of time that could have killed her talking to a non-medical script reader. I’ll know better if anything like it ever happens again.

      Meanwhile my boiler died, at least it wasn’t my wife!

    121. cearc says:


      Sorry to hear of your troubles, glad you’re both on the mend.

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, both of us kicking ourselves for not having realised the signs months ago, put it down to stress (diabolical finances for ages), had already decided to downsize with kids grown out of the nest apart from fridge raids and put it all behind us, now totally determined to do that as quickly as possible. Life’s too short, and stress is its own enemy. Onwards and upwards!

    123. Macart says:


      Sounds like you’ve both been through it dads. Wishing your good lady a speedy recovery.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      Should point out this 4 hour A&E target thing is nonsense, it was very busy that night, more like a half hour with first ambulance not needing to blue-light it to hospital, but it was far far less than 4 hours, and they do a triage to sort out really urgent cases. One problem is ambulance crews have to wait with patient, that’s something that while understandable needs to be sorted to get the limited ambulances with paramedics back on the road far faster. When I’ve a mind I might (if wife allows) do a wee report. Or any reading MSP can do the same 🙂

      Did you know nurses do a 12 and a half hour shift?

    125. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks. My son was there as well, great support, and his girl-friend, daughter and fiancee came back from travels (back travelling again now). Yes, there were a few near tear moments, but you feel you have to stay strong in case you’re needed. It was a case of back to thinking about how to take gearboxes apart again! Now, what was that the tip for, I forget …

    126. Big Phil says:


      Just roon the corner if ye need me buddy. Got van, will travel. Glad you an yours are ok. ye know wer tae find me.

    127. yesindyref2 says:

      @Big Phil
      Cheers. Been a few months right enough with one thing and another, I still owe Jim a corned beef sandwich!

    128. Big Phil says:

      He’ll expect it
      If ye get time come round ,get my number from the auld yin,I’ll help ye wer I can.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      @Big Phil
      Thanks, I’ll do that.

      Well, off to bed said zebedee … zzzzzz

    130. Big Phil says:

      The wee black books ye gave me got us 2 more Yes’s. RESULT. Night buddy. 😉

    131. yesindyref2 says:

      @Big Phil
      They are good. Graf Midgehunter got me mine, and for some reason I got 2 batches (24 each? can’t remember). Got 1 or 2 books left, the rest went to YESsers around Scotland in small batches to give out, including some to son. I’m not a persuader for YES, better at opening minds of NO voters though. Sometimes in the first Ref it used to surprise people I was YES – “YOU support Independence?”, and that made them think just in itself. Slow and gentle was / is my approach in the flesh. Hoping some time later someone else would close the deal – or they do it themselves as at least a couple did. Ah well, back to the laba (leaba). Never did find sleep easy. Nor waking up!

    132. Onwards says:

      Cactus says:
      15 December, 2017 at 6:55 pm
      Scotland should be an independent country.

      We all want that here, but middle class income tax rises could make it harder to achieve.

      A final brexit trade deal could be years away, and we may well need a pro-indy majority in 2021 before the circumstances are best for the next referendum.

      It’s hard to get a majority at Holyrood. And the Tories will target wealthier areas relentlessly with a simple message about reducing taxes to UK levels.

      Politically it was a nice move to allow for a small reduction in the lower bands even if it is peanuts in reality. It allows the soundbite that most Scots will pay less tax, but its peanuts in reality and many low or no-tax payers don’t even bother to vote. Last Holyrood election was 55% turnout.

      Politically they need a clever tactic for the seats at risk.
      Maybe it would be good to come up with a simple average figure per person of the extra public spending here.. on free tuition fees, personal care, prescriptions etc.

      Some family thinking to vote Tory because of £700 or £800 extra tax might think twice if they have a simple number for all the extras received under the SNP government.
      They have a chance to associate increased public spending in Scotland fully with this tax policy.

      I’m not enthusiastic about the changes which could lower economic growth in the long run. I reckon we should have a fixed budget percentage for the NHS which puts a lid on the already huge spending there. Let Westminster take the blame for any cash cuts via the block grant. I also don’t think Salmond would have went down this road.
      But there is a chance to reduce any possible electoral damage if handled wisely.

    133. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – glad to see you’re posting again. I wondered what was up. You’ve had a terrible time and I wish you and your wife a speedy recovery. Hope you can enjoy some seasonal cheer.

    134. ScottieDog says:

      Welcome back!
      Glad everything is ok and your wife is on the mend.

    135. Onwards@6.55 pm 15th Dec.
      I mingle with some of the ‘well offs’ in my local watering hole.
      Not one is bitching over the 1p to fund social services and promote business growth.
      You sound like a Tory.
      Cairns ‘toon sums it up.
      Del Boy pulled a rabbit out of the hat, right before their very eyes.
      Murdo Fraser doesn’t have the intellect, moral or cultural back ground to consider that many of the ‘aspirational’ Upper Middle class actually don’t mind if their government prioritise feeding and housing their citizens over letting MSPs trouser even more of their nice little earner.
      The heartless bastars actually believe that there is an audience out there for their vile elitism.

    136. Nana says:


      Brexit Talks Move On: They Will Be Tough

      Remember when Ruth Davidson told us she goes to UKG Cabinet meetings? Seems it was utter rubbish. Thanks to @CalumCashley for this. #TellTheTruthRuth

    137. Nana says:

      Former Bank of England ecomonistPosen Discusses the Damage of Brexit to the British Economy

      Thread by a former UK negotiator at the EU.
      Can anyone truly believe UKGov is not mishandling Brexit?

      European Council guidelines for next stage of talks – c. 2 yr transition, eventual framework on trade that will not upset single mkt, relations with other 3rd countries (ie Canada-style)

    138. Auld Rock says:

      They are all LIARS.

    139. Undeadshuan says:

      The difference in pay rates between Scotland and England should also make recruitment of and retention of doctors and nurses studying at Scotlands medical Schools and an incentive to disaffected medical staff in rest of UK to relocate to Scotland.

    140. Craig P says:

      I blame the Scottish Government for the confusion in releasing a graph with percentiles, and every job above bus driver coloured green. Easy to misunderstand, albeit the government’s political opponents are doing it deliberately.

    141. Craig P says:

      Now, the graph’s meaning may be clear if you look carefully at the numbers, but what politician or journalist does that?

    142. Marie Clark says:

      Nana, thanks for the links, need to go and get a cup of tea now and settle down for a good read.

      Yesindyref2, sorry to hear of your recent troubles. Glad that your wife is on the mend now. Oh bye the way, I can thoroughly recommend downsizing, we did it four years ago now and never regreted it for a minute.

    143. Nana says:

      The video I posted above is taken from this

      Brexit after the United Kingdom election | LIVE STREAM

    144. Stuart Anderson says:

      I can’t help feel slightly worried about this tax situation, through my very small fitness business I meet plenty of folks from low to middle level incomes and a few that are well off. I’ve seen first hand how the lies of the msm do get through, the 10month Queensferry crossing thing had plenty moaning on FB as we’re in Fife. I try to put them on to WOS but they’re not interested. I can just hear the comments now about paying more tax.

    145. Onwards says:

      @Jack Collatin says:

      “I mingle with some of the ‘well offs’ in my local watering hole. Not one is bitching over the 1p to fund social services and promote business growth.”

      Point is Jack that it has to be played well because we may well need another Holyrood majority for another indyref.

      It’s shown many times that a significant number of people will say one thing in polite company and vote another way. No-one wants to look greedy or uncaring. The ‘Shy Tory’ vote is accounted for by pollsters now.

      SNP had a ‘Penny for Scotland’ campaign in an earlier Holyrood election and it went down like a lead balloon. Polls didn’t see Trump winning for similar reasons.. fear of looking racist or sexist.

      A penny increase might not make too much difference right now, but eventually higher taxes hit economic growth. Who’s to say it won’t go up again next year. Already it’s £200m a year out the private economy, plus the multiplier effect as that money goes around.
      Fine if it’s put into infrastructure and job boosting projects like the Queensferry crossing, but this is to mitigate Tory cuts.

    146. Graeme says:

      Undeadshuan says:
      16 December, 2017 at 8:53 am

      “an incentive to disaffected medical staff in rest of UK to relocate to Scotland.”

      And more British nationalists to vote against our independence

    147. Willie says:

      Free prescriptions, free tuition fees, free bus travel for senior citizens, free bridge crossing, no toll motorways like in England, care the elderly.

      I know where I’d rather be tax domiciled and I’m sure many in England earning £40k and paying £140k a year, or £2.85,per week would agree.

      And with something over sixty percent of Scots paying less tax than England the difference in fairness is now Crystal clear.

      England, a regressive country of vassals. Let them ear their cake.

    148. Willie says:

      Ops a £140 per year or £2085 per week.

      Small screen, big fingers, apologies

    149. The more British nationalists coming to live in Scotland and voting against Scottish independence, has always been a risk we faced.

      We can’t call ourselves a welcoming and inclusive country, if we give in and adopt the attitude and behave like
      those xenophobes who voted to leave the EU, because they don’t want foreigners living in the UK taking jobs, houses and using our public services.

      Then we become no better than them.

    150. Thepnr says:


      “Already it’s £200m a year out the private economy, plus the multiplier effect as that money goes around.”

      That £200 million though hasn’t disappeared, all of it will be spent in Scotland on paying for things most Scots need, the school cleaners wages or an additional support assistant. It will also put more into the pockets of those that live month to month partly through tax cuts and partly through raisng of the pay cap of up to 3%.

      Maybe the worker repairing the roads or a new JCB to make them more efficient. What that money won’t be doing is sitting in a private bank account or in shares in a company that is not Scottish. Nor will any of that £200 million be spent on foreign holidays or imported cars.

      The money will be spent here in Scotland where it’s most needed.

    151. Fred says:

      @yesindyref2. all the best kid, have a good Xmas!

      Murdo the Turdo! the gift that keeps on giving!

    152. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I hear what you are saying @Bill McDermott says 15 December, 2017 at 5:51 pm

      “Why don’t we start a meme along the lines of the ‘Lying Tories’ in the same way that Trump kept the phrase ‘Crooked Hilary’”

      We already have:

      “Did you hear that on the BBC?”


      “You Yes Yet?”

      But a “BritNat Nonsense” or “Unionist Untruths” meme would also have traction.

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Scotland’s taxes. I appreciate that a political opposition is meant to oppose the government of the day, but all this bellyaching from the Yoons displays an appalling ignorance of macro-economics, or is deliberately disingenuous.

      The macro-economic conditions that Scotland is faced with, are largely determined by policy implemented by Westminster, where Scotland’s voice goes unheard. It is normal for a country to set and raise its own taxes, it is not normal to do so within boundaries defined and controlled by another country. It is also highly improper that Scotland is not in full control of all its natural wealth and resources, which is considered an inalienable human right by the United Nations.

      Scotland will never get ahead of the game from this position. It’s about time England supported herself!

    154. David Caledonia says:

      Its funny when you think about it, and i have allways thought it as pretty funny, people who are earning enough to pay what we used to call super tax complaining about tax rises
      For instance take a footballer getting 3 hundred grand a week and paying half of that in tax, some of these people complain about tax, where do these jokers think that money comes from, do they think it magically falls from out the sky, its the poor sucker who pays to watch them kick a bag o wind about that pays, so in actual fact , the sucker is being suckered twice over, cause he or she is actually paying tax on the money they have earned, and they pay the tax for the footballer, i only wish i was earning that kind of money to pay the tax these clowns pay, i would gladly pay it, 150 grand in my pocket every year, bring it on boy lol

    155. Ach, onwards @9.41 am.
      You are a wee Yoon Tory right enough.
      The ‘flush’ drinkers in my local are not worried that Del Boy will be back for another penny next year, and most folks, apart from anorak Yoon Plants like yourself hardly remember the SNP penny in the pound way back in the Jurassic period.
      It is not £200 million taken out of the Scottish economy.
      You speak with the forked tongue of a laissez faire capitalist.
      Most of the rest of us want to live in a social democracy where the essential services are publicly owned and not sold off to this fantastical ‘private economy’ which you tout here.
      There is no such thing. The economy is public, with employers accessing the same services as their staff. Hospitals, schools, traffic lights, GP surgeries.
      Of course in England, the Ruth Davidson Greedy party have sold off the Health Service, cut LA spending to the bone, and PFI reigns supreme.
      The bevviers last night are not ‘shy Tories’, far from it. They voted NO, but Remain, and enjoy GIRUY tilts at us lot of Nat plebs at every opportunity.
      Yet they seem to believe that there are certain things that are inviolate, like a publicly owned Health Service, the Best state funded Schooling for all, and most see the Scottish Parliament as more relevant to their every day life and business than WM and the London Elite.Someof them are moving slowly from Naw to Maybes.
      Onwards, you are a Blue or Blair Red Tory.
      How you can write such guff on here when lies and distortions are the only thing you Brit Nazis have left.
      It was an excellent budget,
      I am retired yet still pay full Council Tax.
      Approximately 1/3 funds education, another 1/3 social services.
      Therefore 2/3 of my CT is used to support a civic society, since I am not of school age, nor, given the old fashioned (?) way our family is organised, will I ever have need of a Social Worker.
      I have no problem with my tax dollars being used to help and support others in the community, and this was roughly the logic and argument last night in the rub a dub dub.Today’s sixth former may be my GP in seven years time.
      Not all well heeled Tories are selfish barStewards, but unfortunately a large majority still are.
      I shall pass on your message that these hairy assed Clydesiders are ‘shy Tories’.
      Yet again, I don’t think that I’ll bother.
      Onwards, you’re a Yoon, live with it.
      We look forward to your next ‘shy post’.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella, ScottieDog, Marie Clark, Fred
      Thanks for that. We went for a short walk along the front yesterday (maybe 300 yards and back), same today, she’s fine with that just a little tired after. Not completely out of the woods yet, it was a 2 stone cyst and though both doctors (surgeons) thought it was non-cancerous, it’s away for testing and one doctor said that can sometimes come back borderline. But even if cancerous, ovarian cancer is one of the easiest treated apparently. Meanwhile, huge scar healing up great!

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting to see people with different views are still accused of being yoon vegetables and fruit, healthy diet all the same, 5 a day apparently does you good if you can afford it. Salmond was more centrist and a little right and left, curious since he was part of the 80s breakaway left group. Sturgeon tends to the left, and that’s a little dangerous, she needs to be careful not to be dragged left by the Greens who would leave Scotland with great ideals and very healthy with everyone on their bike, breathing totally fresh air, but completely bankrupt economically with no budget for NHS, schools, police or state owned bicycles.

      Great ideals, just a little at a time please as and when we can afford it.

    158. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, the SNP do have to be very careful not to upset the economy, but as Thepnr says that £200 million would be spent just about all in the Scottish economy, and directly fuel some payback in income tax receipts (100% to SG), VAT (50%), as well as potentially reducing the benefit payments (GERS only at the moment).

      iScotland would of course reap all the revenues of that extra spending in the economy in terms of tax take, and as ScottieDog might say if I have this right, that taxation and further employment can be used to balance new money generation with our own currency, and create even more public spending benefit to create more tax take, and then even more money creation to create …


    159. gus1940 says:

      Over the years there has been much talk of a Scottish Land Tax.

      How much would be raised by an annual charge of say £10 per acre?

      The % of the population who would pay more than £10 per annum would be tiny so there would be little opposition by most of the electorate to its imposition.

      The amount that could be raised would be enormous.

      Any landowner who couldn’t or wouldn’t pay could be compelled to forfeit the land to the government without compensation.

      A relatively painless tax except for certain people who have lorded it over us for far too long.

      When is something going to be done about it given the potential for raising money for the NHS, Schools and Infrastructure?

    160. Undeadshuan says:


      Are you another 77th brigade troll with that racist comment?

      Piss off back to yer barracks

    161. yesindyref2 says:

      According to google, the size of Scotland is 19.787 million acres, so at £10 per acre that would be £198 million. Enough to cover the Greens’ wanted council funding increase! For cost of admin purposes, probably best to exempt anyone with less than say an acre, and for farmers and constructive users of land, allow an offset against any other revenues such as profits, VAT or even income tax of employees.

      Sweat the land, sounds like a good idea to me, if people want to let it lie fallow for ever and a day it’ll cost them. £10 per acre first year, £15 second, £20 third …

    162. yesindyref2 says:

      I was thinking about that figure of 20 million acres at £10 per acre, and it occurs to me it’s absolutely nowhere near enough.

      The GDP of Scotland is around £160 billion, probably 99% generated from far less than a quarter of that land, as three-quarters are in the “ownership” of just 300 individuals.

      At £160 billion, that’s £8,000 GDP per acre, so it would seem that a fair Land Tax would be based on £8,000 per acre, minus existing GDP. For that £160 bn GDP, total onshore revenues are around £50 billion, so a ratio of 5/16th of the GDP = £2,500 Land Tax per acre per year.

      Sounds fair to me.

    163. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – if you can go for a short walk you’re living and breathing. Well done.

      I watched Rob Roy tonight. An excellent film on Netflix starring Liam Neeson. Filmed in Scotland and music by Capercaillie. Funding from the EU. So that will end soon.
      Watch it while you can.0

    164. Jim says:

      Um…alll very well, but in the first example I think the column in the table you should be reading is the last one (difference vs rest of UK).

      I’m all for calling people out if they’re being selective with facts, but it looks a bit silly if you do the same whilst doing it…

    165. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Um…alll very well, but in the first example I think the column in the table you should be reading is the last one (difference vs rest of UK).”

      Why? That isn’t what was changed in the budget.

      “I’m all for calling people out if they’re being selective with facts, but it looks a bit silly if you do the same whilst doing it…”

      If I was being selective with facts I’d have cropped that column out of the table and not referred to it in the article. But I left it in and referred to it extensively.

    166. Davosa says:

      What a fuckin prick Green is – in fact as big a knob as Murdo ‘BIgot ‘ Fraser.

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