Now The Traffic Lights Change
Posted on
October 19, 2023 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
OK enough is enough
Im calling for an immediate permanent ban for Ron Clark and any and all of his identifiable aliases.
The ad-hom attack on Ruby goes well beyond the expected “rough and tumble” on a site like this.
As for the the arse-licker Abroad, its up to Rev Stu but I fail to see what if any use he is, other than that if he is busy in here, hw is not spreading his paid-for pish anywhere else.
I don’t live in Scotland but I do have significant contacts and family ties there; I support the Union.
I came on here to try to understand the issues of independence supporters
Given the clinical dissection over the years of the laughable SNP by the Editor of this site I struggle to see what is now proposed; all that seems to happen recently is a series of deranged and repetitious posts and a load of personal abuse.
Obtaining another ‘indyref’ is not enough; what is proposed in the event of a win ? Are there ANY coherent policies on here ? Currency ? Defence ? Immigration ? Definition of ‘new nationality’? Border controls? (would the Editor be excluded as a resident of the most English of English cities ?) Taxation ? I’ll not even mention ‘net zero’ and gender issues as I think both have net zero chance of influencing any outcome in the event of another indyref.
I’ll get me coat.
PS-I’m not English
“The shelling of the Sarajevo marketplace on 28 August 1995 by the VRS is considered to be the immediate instigating factor behind NATO’s decision to launch the operation.”
(from that Wiki article you linked to)
That’s not the case. Don’t believe everything you read in Wikipedia.
Two days before it was launched, myself and the other sector commanders of the UNMOs were called to a conference at the UNPF HQ in Zagreb, and were briefed on what was going to happen, mainly so that we could make sure our monitoring officers were in no danger of being taken hostage. There was clear anger in UNPF about Srebrenica. In my case, I made the decision to pull 5 of them out of the Serb towns and into Croatian towns. They could still do their jobs, but from the Croatian side of the front line, rather than the Serbian side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zFAvzf0Mv0
I want you to imagine Mel Gibson saying the following:
You can post yer links, but you will never make me read!
Massive cheers from the crowd!
https://wingsoverscotland.com/now-the-traffic-lights-change/comment-page-2/#comment-2798095
Well Tommo I think the answer to your question is pretty simple.
In the event of a win Scotland will be an democratic independent country and no longer a colony which means all decisions will be made by the electorate of iScotland.
Everyone posting here will have a different idea of what they would like to see after independence but all decisions like in an democratic independent country will be decided by the majority.
For me defence is the biggy always has been. NO WMDs, no warmongering, no world’s largest defence budget etc.
I don’t want you to get your coat yet not before you have told me what you mean by English.
I’ll get back to your other questions once you have answer that question satisfactorily.
Who are the English?
Tommo
How dare you come on here and talk some sense.
Are you not aware that the nutters love to regurgitate false ancient history every day? Some like to write novels which nobody will read. Others prefer to belittle others who do not subscribe to their warped views. Nobody seems to be remotely interested in any sensible policies in the areas you mentioned and there are a lot more. After Independence everything will be sorted by magic by whatever incompetent Government is in place. Insults abound however, I must confess to dishing out my fair share, when I can be bothered.
Rest assured the sane amongst will continue to vote NO at any opportunity until such times as coherent policies are proposed by an honest, competent Government in waiting. The problem is I don’t see where this Government is. Can anyone enlighten me?
Ruby aka Rugby (ball) 4.14pm
STILL on my case I see.
I noticed when you responded to me that you only quoted a snippet from my original post.
So I thought I would show the original post in full that was sent to you.
Lots of good advice included in the post:-
“You’ve turned into a nasty wee fat piece of work lately.
You and You’re house must be stinkin,,,because as far as I can make out, you seem to be sitting on your fat arse abusing other punters all day, every day.
Calm down dear, calm down.
Buy a treadmill and maybe try to offload some of the bulk that is attached to your torso.
Elasticated knickers will never work if you are just going to sit at your computer abusing people.
And try cutting down on the takeaways.
Have a target,,,try getting down from a size 24 to about size 22.
It won’t improve your chances of getting a man,,but it will help take the strain off of the poor computer chair your arse is never done sitting on.
Ruby is one letter away from being Rugby.
Which would be more appropriate for you, considering your basic shape is that of a Rugby ball,,,too much sitting at computers does that to a women’s shape.
Have a nice day Ruby,,,or is it Rugby (ball).”
So funny!!!
So UNPROFOR knew it was going to happen and let it happen???
And did nothing to properly supply Srebrenica by the sound of it.
Dutch ineffectiveness at Srebrenica was assured.
Given the fakery at Merkale, it sure looks like the ‘peacekeepers’ wanted an excuse to start something.
Get NATO involved despite it having nothing to do with them.
Tommo
As an afterthought to my previous post-never ever mention the word MONEY. You know, that stuff you need to do things. They go absolutely ape-shit at the mention of that word.
Another suggestion for your next post. Try and use some guid Scottish words. This will show that you really, really are a ‘man of the people’. The nutters will take you far more seriously. Before long they will be eating out the palm of your hand.
Hope this helps.
Ruby – Tommo spent some time putting together a concise list. He’s what I would call a good contributor to this site. He complains about “a series of deranged and repetitious posts” and then you volunteer to answer him with a typically deranged and repetitious post. Care to answer him properly?
The big problem I have with this sort of stuff posted anonymously on some random website is it could be just a figment of the posters imagination, an extract from someone’s memoirs or from some romantic comedy, anything. I have a hard enough job believing the propaganda I read in the papers so why would I believe propaganda written anonymously on a blog?
So ‘Lord Naw Naw of the Naw Baws’ for me to come anywhere close to believing you you’ll have to tell me who you are.
Something has reinvigorated the old boys . Requesting repeated explanation of what Scotland has to survive and prosper without the largesse of British thieving.
It is also an explanation that some of these numb nuts were considered commanders of the cluster fuks perpetrated .
I believe some are likely war criminals in the international legal sense. Not that has ever mattered.
JohnIm,
the UNPF at that time consisted of three subordinate missions with an HQ in Zagreb, one in Bosnia, one in Croatia, one in Macedonia. UNPROFOR was the mission in Bosnia. The NATO campaign against the Serbs wasn’t part of any of those three missions, but rather a dual-key arrangement between UNPF in Zagreb, and AFSOUTH of NATO commanded from Naples.
The Srebrenica massacre preceded the air attacks on the Serbs by around a month. You can look up the exact timeline if you wish, but it’s thereabouts.
As far as I was concerned, it didn’t really affect me or my subordinate UNMOs, as we were posted in Croatia in a zone known as Sector South. We had had our hands full with the nearly contemporaneous Operation Storm launched by the Croats into a segment of Croatia held by Serb separatists, about 200 miles from Srebrenica.
Ruby, the dictionary is clear: the English are natives of, or residents of England. Ditto the Scots and Scotland. You won’t get any better definition because anything that tries to be more precise unravels very quickly.
Beyond that we make our own judgments and frankly they are generally superficial: if I hear someone with a Scottish accent (of any sort), they are a Scot until I am told otherwise because that is a pretty good guide to start with.
Hi peeps.
I see btl here, attacks on peeps whom I would regard as ‘soft Yessers’ ie, those who could be persuaded to vote YES to independence.
Why antagonise by attacking these contributors with vitriol and accusations of ‘anti-Scottishness’?
We’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns.
We’re all etc is fine and good.
When you accept the faces of those singing the “English anthem “ as they call it with visceral hatred. Then it’s difficult to forget the verses when the declare their desires to rush rebellious Scots to crush . Or should we just shut up and fuk off like the Palestinian people?
Genuine question. For the Britnat fascist visitors too.
Shauny Boy is letting off steam on twitter about Lesley Riddoch and others who are NOW saying “we thought Nicola had a plan”!
The answer apparently is for them to hold a conference where they will talk to each other about the need for a “new strategy”.
Bless.
I see mrs murrell has passed her driving license
Now she will have to ask polias alba to release the camper van so that she and her
“friend “can drive off into the sunset- leaving the wreckage behind
Aw , for fuk sake , and not wishing to bother. The bollox some usual suspects think is ok is beyond tik tok. .
According to a numb nut , my Myanmar Doctor upstairs is English cos she’s here . So is my Hungarian mate next door and the Iranian family downstairs. It’s a commendable consideration if they ever meant it.
Let us remember that whilst EU residents in Scotland were given a vote in 2014 and told by all the Union / Kingdomists media that only a NO vote would allow them and Scotland to remain part of the EU ! remember that ?
For the Brexit vote , did they have a say ! Were they permitted a vote? My memory tells me that the UK don’t like a level playing field and hate fair play. Privileged private school cuntish people they are. And their numb nut porters
It is the obsession with what an English or Scottish person is that is dumb because as you point out John, there is no satisfactory answer. What if your Hungarian mate has kids who go to an English school, speak the King’s English and adopt the culture like a ‘native’. Are they then not English? They become just as much English as Hungarian and their kids even more so. The shift is very rapid. Going on about this stuff is a hiding to nothing.
I suspect that for some WoS BTL commenters, no one can possibly be Scottish and hence have a vote in any future IndyRef unless their ancestors fought at Bannockburn AND they are guaranteed to vote Yes. If both of those conditions are not in place, then no vote.
It’s all utter nonsense, of course, but that’s what some seem to be aiming for.
Brian Doonthetoon @ 9:47 pm
“We’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns.”
Well, some are ‘more equal’ than others, but much more so in a colonial society where an oppressed people are debased, regarded as subordinate, their language(s) considered invalid, their culture obliterated, their resources plundered causing many to exist in poverty in a country that remains under-developed and lacking in opportunity.
Here the anti-independence elements deserve little empathy from the colonized, not least because, as Aime Cesaire put it: “colonization dehumanizes even the most civilized man (who) aspires not to equality but to domination”.
In a colonial society we’re no equal at aw, we’re forged into unequal beings.
I am from and live in an area of Glasgow in which when I have my windows open or I walk the streets of the area I hear English being spoken at best twenty percent of the time. These people are not Scottish, they are economic migrants who live in parallel cultures. If I have an unprovoked attack carried out against me by them they are released without charge because they are clearly in the ascendancy whilst I am a third class citizen on my own doorstep.
It was not always like this but history is being rewritten to make it look as if they are the indigenous people and I am the unwelcome coloniser. I move in circles which support this 101% whilst on the other hand I have had numerous off the record conversations with people working in social housing, social services, law enforcement, particularly traffic, who have admitted to me that there are separate systems of how the law is enforced or not dependant on the demographic of the person involved. Spending time with middle class virtue signalling grifters who victim blame you is a good way to rethink your overall world view.
What culture are you referring to?
The franchise for an IndyRef is not the issue that is being discussed.
According to ‘Southernbystander’ you could be either Scottish or English.
Tell us why you describe yourself as Scottish and exactly what that means to you.
Fucking Air Sourced Heatpumps droning away stopping me from getting to sleep…
I can’t remember the last time I had a decent sleep since all these ASHPs started getting installed. There was a mild night last week before the storm hit, and I went to bed and noticed it was actually silent with no humming and droning just like the village used to be, it didn’t last long though as within 20 mins one had started up again.
Clearly there were no adequate surveys completed prior to the installations if the pumps need to cycle as often as they do through the night as they attempt to keep properties warm. The systems cycling as often as they do implies the property’s insulation level is poor, and as a result the heat loss is so high the systems are running close to constantly as they attempt to maintain heat within the property.
Plus no survey or consideration has been carried out into how any noise these systems generate might reflect and resonate off building structures and cause an issue for those that live nearby.
If the gullible folk that got coerced into fitting all this shit won’t start making claims for being sold a pup, then maybe neighbours that are having to put up with the noise might have a case. Or on a bigger scale taxpayers that are disgruntled that their taxes are getting spaffed away on all this greenwashing pish rather than being spent on essential services.
But I guess with Scotland being inhabited by so many fucking gormless subservient folk that seem to just suck up ever increasing amounts of shite, I won’t hold my breath for this being sorted out anytime soon.
Big Pharma will love this though as folk start getting prescribed tranquilisers and sleeping tablets.
Musical interlude recognising cultures being diminished.
Peter Gabriel – San Jacinto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsafEN0vEtI
“I hold the line, the line of strength that pulls me through the fear…
…We will walk, on the land
We will breathe, of the air
We will drink, from the stream
We will live, hold the line
Hold the line
Hold the line“
Dan , here in the westend of Glasgow my sleep has been disturbed by a constant thrum . Spoke to a chap from environmental health and when I said I as near Gartnaval, he mentioned their heat pumps and that folk had complained before. I was told he would look into it and that was the last I heard. The noise decreased for a time but if you get ‘tuned in’ it still disturbs sleep.
Never trust anybody with an English (spit) accent.
They are patronising bastards,,,and will come across as agreeing with you on independence,,,just to keep you mad Jocks quiet,,,when really they wouldn’t dream of breaking up the stranglehold their country has on Scotland.
Even these “English for Yes” groups can go and take a hike.
@Dan 1:22pm
The decibel noise from a single air source heat pump should be between 40 to 60 decibels at 1 metre. Download a decibels reading phone App. This is free and does the same job as a decibel meter. There is a distinct possibility the heat pump hasn’t been installed properly and is giving off noise outwith the design envelope. Get the reading and make a noise complaint!
JUST BE AWARE, FOLKS. You have no way of knowing if this is the same ‘Ron Clark’ who threatens to bombard WOS btl threads with Unionist media links, then does so under various guises such as ‘gregor’ and ‘Ron Clark’. And this sites reputation for exposing such weirdo’s in the political world opens us up to retaliation by these mentally disturbed beasts. Do not engage, report it.
Convicted paedophile Ronald Clark also did time for possessing child porn (aka ‘Pixie Porn’) https://archive.ph/5zHBG
‘But i guess with Scotland being inhabited by so many fucking gormless subservient folk that seem to just suck up ever increasing amounts of shite’
Yoons, wha’s like them eh?. Lol.
You are experiencing what it’s like to have tinnitus.
The person masquerading as ‘Ron Clark’ is also using terminology such as “English bastards”. This level of mental disturbance should be reported and not engaged with. There should be a zero tolerance of this sort of thing.
And that goes for those on here who are regularly accused of being unionists in one form or another. You also have a responsibility to report it, not just use it as a stick to beat other indy supporters with.
Mind you, for all we know the character ‘Ron Clark’ could very well be one of your creations designed to make indy supporters look bad. NOTHING is beyond the BritNat’s when it comes to tactics.
Decibels? – even 40-60 is loud. I seem to remember a chainsaw is 100. So, two heat-pumps equals a chainsaw? No wonder he can’t sleep.
Stoker
Are you joining Ruby aka Rugby ball and Johnlm aka R Sole in attacking me?
Don’t be a fuckin eejit.
Yoon links are posted because these two continue to converse with the likes of John Main.
And I will continue to post those links until they stop.
They also think they are a couple of cheeky smart arses.
So if they continue to be on my case,,,then the Yoon links will continue.
And the next time you annoy me then you will also be responsible for the appearance on Yoon links.
You have been warned.
Stoker
See what you done.
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/decade-snp-cuts-left-scotlands-31260906.amp
There was a noise problem in Edinburgh for a good number of years with music being blasted from the Tartan Tat shops.
That seems to have been sorted out more or less but it took years.
They play ‘Scottish’ music at full blast.
I’m wondering if you know what I mean by ‘Scottish’ music or if I need to be more precise.
According to ‘Southernbystander’ this could be anything from ‘Bhangra’ to ‘Hungarian folk music’.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/24/snp-regret-letting-world-see-whats-under-scotland-kilt/
@ Dorothy Devine
The noise really is annoying because as you say it’s something that you seem to tune into therefore not easy to avoid. It’s not dissimilar to enduring tinnitus.
Had another crap sleep lucky if 4 hours, and I wake up and can still hear the droning as I type this.
@ George Ferguson
Aye, it was myself that posted the legal noise limit for an ASHP is 42 decibels.
But I also read that whilst ASHPs are operating they can omit 40 to 60 decibels. So how on earth does that work if the legal limit is 42Db.
For those that do not know, 60 decibels is 10 times louder than 50 decibels, and 60 decibels in 100 times louder than 40 decibels.
I’ll see if I can get a shot of a proper calibrated decibel meter as have a couple of contacts that have such devices.
emit not omit…
@Captain Yossarian 9:15pm
Captain remember the decibel range is not linear. Each 10 decibels will sound as twice as loud. So 60 decibels will sound twice as loud as 50 decibels A prolonged exposure to 70 decibels or above can damage hearing. So 10 heat pumps should sound around twice as loud as a single heat pump. I suspect noise dampening has been incorrectly installed. Until Dan uses the free phone App to measure we can’t say for sure.
Aw Stoker, you woke the Gimp.
For the record I seldom conversed directly with John Main.
There are people who have the sound of a chainsaw constantly ringing in their ears. It’s called tinnitus.
Might be a good idea for Dan & Dorothy to check this:
https://tinnitus.org.uk/understanding-tinnitus/living-with-tinnitus/sleeping/
I don’t image the heatpump problem is going to be sorted out any time soon and if you resort to tranquilisers and sleeping tablets you could end up with a much more serious problem.
I haven’t read the link I’m hoping it says ‘just stay cool don’t let the noise problem drive you insane’ find a way to live with it. Don’t get angry that’ll just make it worse.
How about thinking of the noise from the heatpumps as a lullaby?
@Dan 9:26pm
It’s the one metre rule Dan and also the exposure time. Lets say if you measured 42dB but what was the distance from the source ? The noise attenuation is dramatic over distance. These phone Apps claim to be as accurate as a decibels meter. Good luck with your investigation.
Noisy heat pumps:
The Telegraph reported in May this year that DEFRA had raised the issue of noisy heat pumps with the Department for Business and Trade and was working on a £6 million noise-mapping project over fears that the cumulative impact of many heat pumps in a residential area could tip over into disturbance.
The report quotes sound experts saying that the whir of the fan, hum of the motor, and buzz of the air conditioner condenser unit can all cause disturbance, which can get worse in frosty weather. The units can also cause noisy vibrations.
It’s notable that the Western Isles, Orkney, Shetland and Argyll & Bute topped the list of heat pumps installed ranging from 73 to 175 per 1000 households. At that point, the number of installations in all other UK areas was much lower, ranging from 0.4 to 45 per 1000.
‘Holyrood was granted the right to issue Scottish gilts – which traders have inevitably christened “kilts” – after Scots voted not to disunite the kingdom in the 2014 referendum.’
From the article ‘The SNP will regret letting the world see what’s under Scotland’s kilt’ which looks as if it was been pulled.
I find this use of ‘Scottish’ words in a derogatory manner racist & offensive.
after Scots voted not to disunite the kingdom in the 2014 referendum.
LOL. ‘Disunite the kingdom’
Here we have the word ‘Scots’ used which isn’t very precise.
There were a lot of English people who also voted possibly even Welsh & N.Irish.
If we are to believe what ‘Southernbystander’ & ‘The Telegraph’ says I suppose everyone resident in Scotland is ‘Scots’ even if they only come for a two week holiday they’ll be Scots for two weeks or maybe forever if they want.
The ‘English’ homeless who have been bussed in for two weeks to register to vote before returning to be ‘English’ homeless in Manchester they are also ‘Scottish’ for two weeks or however long it takes to register to vote & get their postal vote sorted.
‘Southernbystander’ seems to be suggesting the term ‘Scottish’ like the term ‘English’ is meaningless.
Why do people keep using these terms?
Johnlm aka R Sole
You still at it?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/snp-bid-zone-out-right-31235570.amp
@ George Ferguson
Aye, I mentioned in my middle of the night post that there are other factors that could exacerbate noise problems such as reflection and resonance.
Having worked in industries and environments where noise is a factor I have a bit of experience on this stuff. To protect my hearing I wear earplugs for all noisy activities like using lawnmower, chainsaw, grinders, and whilst riding motorbike.
Anyway, that’s me now sourced a shot of a calibrated decibel meter used by motorsport scrutineers for testing sound levels in motorsport.
Dan, i have quite loud Tinnitus , due to 50 odd years being at Motorcycle race meetings , in particular last fifteen or so being an accredited photographer at Isle of Man TT and other Road racing circuits where you get very close to the bikes. Silly me never bothered with ear protection so suffering for it now.
I find the best way to get sleep is to have a radio on at low volume all night.
Dont know why it makes a difference but it does, otherwise it would drive me mad, its bad enough during the day!
Worth a try and see if it helps you sleep.
Ruby aka Rugby (ball) 4.14pm
STILL on my case I see.
I noticed when you responded to me that you only quoted a snippet from my original post.
So I thought I would show the original post in full that was sent to you.
Lots of good advice included in the post:-
“You’ve turned into a nasty wee fat piece of work lately.
You and You’re house must be stinkin,,,because as far as I can make out, you seem to be sitting on your fat arse abusing other punters all day, every day.
Calm down dear, calm down.
Buy a treadmill and maybe try to offload some of the bulk that is attached to your torso.
Elasticated knickers will never work if you are just going to sit at your computer abusing people.
And try cutting down on the takeaways.
Have a target,,,try getting down from a size 24 to about size 22.
It won’t improve your chances of getting a man,,but it will help take the strain off of the poor computer chair your arse is never done sitting on.
Ruby is one letter away from being Rugby.
Which would be more appropriate for you, considering your basic shape is that of a Rugby ball,,,too much sitting at computers does that to a women’s shape.
Have a nice day Ruby,,,or is it Rugby (ball).”
So funny!!!
Don’t you think?
Ruby, the English culture; the way people behave, address each other, talk, dress; the art, music, literature, TV that is popular, the pubs and beer, football, cricket, interest in local history and how it has shaped today, architecture, love of landscape and type of countryside, and so on.
Culture can be difficult to define as it an accumulation of lots of things and is also always changing but it very much does exist and I could go into lots of detail under all those headings. I bet you could too regarding Scottish culture. Some of it would be the same of course, quite a lot in fact. Some will say that is the colonial legacy but this hides the fact the peoples on this island are in fact, pretty similar which is hardly surprising.
But you seem very keen to belittle any suggestion that people from outwith Scotland can ever be Scottish or contribute to what Scottish culture is and over time become as Scottish as you. I don’t think like that and never will: Stromzy is now as English to me as Stephen Fry.
Ah! this is the way you are looking at it. Interesting!
I’m just trying to establish what it means to be ‘Scottish’
What sort of time frame do you reckon it would take for someone to become as ‘Scottish’ as me?
You seemed to suggest earlier that if you come to stay in Scotland you are immediately ‘Scottish’
I wouldn’t have a clue how to define ‘Scottish’ culture and that is why I am seeking answers.
Perhaps you could help me out with that one.
Can you please define Scottish culture and also British culture.
Is having these two cultures a bit inconvenient for the British coloniser?
Is there any reason why ‘Scottish’,’English’N.Irish & Welsh can’t be defined in the same way as ‘Aboriginal Australian’ or ‘Native American’?
Maybe that doesn’t fit in with the plan that all these pesky ethnic minorities ie the Scottish, the English, the N.Irish & the Welsh should all be eliminated and be forced to accept Britishness?
If I go to live in France would I immediately become French?
I am not talking about French by nationality just everything else?
Oh, now this is interesting. I hadn’t considered it till now what with being tired from lack of decent sleep… but the other day I noticed the colony of bats that have resided behind the fascia board of my property for decades seem to have gone. They lived just a few meters from where the neighbour’s new and noisy ASHP has been installed.
Bats rely heavily on acoustics so that could be a show stopping factor in play with all these ASHP installations. Bat survey required in assessing any property’s suitability.
@ Lenny Hartley
That’s not so good you have tinnitus. I had endured occasional bouts in the past and that is why I wear ear protection now, and generally always have ear plugs in my trouser pockets in case I unexpectedly find myself in an noisy environment such as pub with a band playing, or a workshop with machinery running.
I’m actually almost up to my ears in motorbike engines at the moment. The recent floods unfortunately swamped a couple of a neighbour’s bikes, so I have brought them over to my place to work on and have managed to drain and clean and get the one running that didn’t get too much water ingress.
Sadly the other bike’s engine filled with water and has watermarked and started to corrode internal components so that’s a real scunner, and I have a jigsaw of hundreds of components I have removed and cleaned to salvage as much as possible. Both bikes were very tidy so it’s quite upsetting for the owner and I can empathise as hate seeing stuff like this getting damaged.
He had a pretty bad and debilitating stroke a year back so was unable to take action that would have prevented this from happening. I’m just giving a few days of my time to help out as very few folk are in a position or have the skills to do what needs done to these bikes.
Southernbystander,
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Scotland and England being different or similar in any number of ways but the similarities shouldn’t be used as evidence that we are the same people, we simply aren’t.
The notion that we are the same people then leads to the idea that if this is the case, then it is somehow democratic that the Scots can have their wants and needs ignored because the democratic English have outvoted them numerically.
All fair and above board? The Unionists on both sides of the border seem to think so anyway.
It’s also why many Unionists in England they think they should have a vote in any independence referendum.
I would suggest that there is an easy remedy for deciding criteria of who should and should not vote on a country’s constitution and that is a Scottish passport.
Anybody with a Scottish passport (or equivalent ID card) should be able to vote but it must not be dual nationality and no British passport, people will then choose the nationality of the country they most care about and hence earning the right to vote on that country’s constitutional questions.
The British passport only muddies the waters and allows Unionists to hide their real colours, in my opinion.
‘Southernbystander’ isn’t just suggesting that Scotland & England are the same but that every country in the entire world is the same.
Sure we are all human beings but culturally we are all very different.
I’ve not been very impressed with ‘Southernbystander’ arguments on this or any other occasion.
He seems to think that if I went to live in Japan I would immediately become Japanese.
How bonkers is that?
Dan – Your engineering re Decibels is sound and mine is faulty and so I salute you. I am going to try to make sure that never happens again. I had a stroke once by the way, when I was in my late 30’s, caused by a hole in the heart from birth. It’s a long story but I recovered pretty well. Had the hole in the heart sealed-up at Glasgow Royal Infirmary and it only took the chap about an hour to do it. I was fully awake during the op and the surgeon was the Scottish Football team doctor at the time.
Stu,
I was thinking last night We heard not from you in a while, so we are asking after you and hope all is well, with you and yours,
Ruby,
I think Southernbystander or any Unionist for that matter will manage to see things the way they want to see them rather than the way they are, it demands a level of hypocrisy that undermines their reasoning.
For example, every Unionist is unequivocally pro independence, just not for Scotland. This is where their trouble with forming a cohesive argument against Scottish independence begins, the very foundations are incredibly flimsy so they must try to add support with abstract arguments of a dystopian future for Scotland without England.
How many times have you heard the phrase “Scotland can’t afford independence” or “Scotland would be a banana republic without the bananas” showing off their total ignorance and their failure to understand the concept of sovereignty, boiling everything down to the idea that self determination is only for those who are deemed to afford it.
The last century with the public records of the imperial accounts, John Jappy, Gavin McCrone, Lord Waldergrave and Niall Aslen and others evidencing Scotland’s immense wealth have shown Unionists have no sense of embarrassment when deploying nonsensical arguments.
When people like David Cameron said in 2014 that he thought we were “Better Together” he was right but only if you weren’t Scottish, he was saying this as an Englishman who was dipping his hands into Scottish pockets, he could see there was a benefit to him financially and no loss of sovereignty either.
From a Scottish perspective “Better Together” is a lie, we are being robbed and denied our sovereignty. This also makes Scottish Unionists a different kettle of fish, thick and cowardly enablers is probably the best thing I could say for them.
So in summary, I would have to disagree with Southernbystander’s opinion that the people of Scotland and England are the same.
Ruby, if the people of Scotland and England are not the same it would also follow for the rest of the world, that is if that’s Southernbystander’s position.
Ruby, @ 12:13 am,
In response to your question, I’m Scottish because I have 3 fully Scottish grandparents, was born and lived in Scotland until the age of 19, and am certainly not English, Welsh or Irish.
What it means to me is that I am a member of a preciously held union of four distinct countries, under a mostly unified government, and I’m not looking to change any of that.
That’s my answer to you. I couldn’t give two hoots if you don’t like it.
Breastplate 11.58am.
Thats the most sensible and democratic way to settle who has the right to vote on Scottish independence.
Defining Scottish and english,
Well “personal” abuse intended to aggrivate and incite rage in people in cause racism hatred has always been the actions to benefit bigger actors by divide and rule methods,
It also makes a easy target to take down Stu’s web site.
I never classify the ordinary man woman or child on the street when speaking of yoons or unionist minded people as specifically English, Scots, Irish or welsh,
But as the mind of those whom want to maintain a union in Britain at all costs politically.
When a person volunteers to consider themselves in this brackets of discription that is their personal choice wether they are Scots, Welsh, Irish, or English,
When I consider the overall picture of these names it is in the context of their own admission as to what political stance or context they personally make, like chosen a political party.or stanceb.
On politics their has always been a natural divide difference.
These involve turncoats and faithful on both sides to ones on country, who has authority falsely enisaged by their political status choice,
I often think that Englands people should have a choice if they want to be independent from London, as those outwith london also suffer the conseqences of Londons financial elite,
The political discouse on “democracy for the people” in GB has almost come to a standstill,
The political elite switch in Westminster , prime minsters between elections like changing socks,
Changing who you voted in to someone you had no option to have,
That is the system of the lords and ladies of both houses to Switch from BJ to Truss, to Sunak.
The people in the Country of England also get whom they did not vote for,
The election process and the difficulty in Britain to be voted in as ordinary people even in the commons,
There is seldom a voice for those below the establishment, and the elite that run Britain as a corporation of profit or losses,,
We all know that Scotland and its people has been Colonised and treated like dirt beneath Westminsters feet,
But I often Wonder how long it will take The ordinary people in England, Wales and Ireland to realise that they have very little tights, that day by day their rights are being reduced, they are also Colonised, like Scotland,
They are just slower on the uptake on how the financial elite in London have Colonised their lives and treat them like dirt also.
Scotland knows it has been abused for hundreds of years,
And It has crossed my mind have the politicians ever wondered if they continue to run Britain as a mafia style government where democracy, finance and freedom only belongs to them in Westminster and not to the people of Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland,
how long they will last,
The outcome of total control by Westminster while robbing and taxing the ordinary people beyond their pockets, may not be what they had hoped.
One world government where the trich get richer and the people get poorer with less freedoms from big brother will only be persevered with for a liminted time,
History has a way of repeating itself.
Breastplate,
Cameron was right for less than 24 hours, until he bought in Evel, and change the monarchies position,
O/T: CRAIG MURRAY under investigation under para (2)(b), Schedule 7, Terrorism Act 2000. See his blog.
His phone is being retained for further investigation by Police Scotland.
Craig has already got his lawyers involved about the terms of his detention at Glasgow Airport i.e. no right to a lawyer, no right to silence, no right to leave. This costs money so he is inviting assistance from us.
Can Scotland or England get even worse?
Interestingly we are free to comment as he has not been arrested or charged so contempt of court provisions do not come into play, Craig says.
Stoker 9.10am, yes i believe the person calling people english bar stewards (spit).
Is a unionist agitator trying to make indy supporters look like ‘english haters’.
Please Excuse the frail and ancient borrowed techno errors that sometimes do not function on the keypad board.
And those of you on here over a past few years will be aware that dyslexia combined with old technology is not a great combination for commenting, hopefully you are able to discern the comment message I put forward,
Och its a constant battle, and a lot has to be repeated because it does not send or disappears into the ether.
Mike d 3.28pm
So you believe that a Scot calling our colonial masters “English bastards” makes me Unionist?
Where have you been all your fuckin life.
What kind of sheltered snowflake existence have you led?
You just have to be another one of Nicla’s luvvies. A fully paid up member of the SNP.
Away and take a good fuck to yourself.
Incitement and agitation on here perhaps to cause divide and hatred, would certainly wobble Stu’s site,
When it becomes obvious it may be better to ignore the incitement and agitators for the sake of Stu.
I think a referendum should democratically be put to England, Scotland,Wales and Ireland individually to see if the wish to remain in the GB,
That is better than all the nations being told what they want by a few select people in control of the people,
And each of the nations democratically should be in control of their own votes and counting ability without interference,
That is the democracy that should have the so called “british values” that our government often accuses other countries of lacking,
As political circumstance constantly evolve, so do peoples opinions on how goverments treat their people.
Democracy equality for the for all four Counties nations,
Other wise it is hypocritical to invade and bring war and regime change to other Countries politics for their lack of continued democracy, if we do not do democracy ourselves..
Sarah,
Slowly but surely all of Britain and its laws are becoming Colonised in favour for the few,
We recognise these introduced new laws that Colonise against peoples individual rights as sovereign people quicker than most due to Scots being in this position over hundreds of years.
That any government that claims it has sovereignty of parliament over all the people wether, Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales has turned its self into a limited dictatorship of governance, by passing its own self made laws to grandiose itself above democracy of all other people.in its Country.
That is the nature of any government that by passes the peoples options.
It
Sarah,
Those that believe they have the authority of Sovereignty similar right of kings above the people were beheaded in the past Britain.
That the monarchs sovereignty has passed into Westminster through the English bill of rights and Westminster now are using Sovereignty of parliament are Indeed acting as the last king that they executed for doing so.
Sovereignty belongs to the people, otherwise it is a dictatorship not a democratic government,
And we might as well drop the pretence in Britain,
Folk judging folk purely by their accent are exactly the hard of thinking I want nothing to do with.
Whilst understanding the emotions that accent and dialect induce , it is very much the age old ruse to devide and rule.
Sound like a southern English cunt myself, Received Pronunciation a name often given to platt English. Sound like a German apparently in Germany, hoch Deutsch.
These judgments are often taken most seriously by dangerous types with little forethought.
Ruby says:
24 October, 2023 at 11:23 am
Southernbystander says:
24 October, 2023 at 10:39 am
What sort of time frame do you reckon it would take for someone to become as ‘Scottish’ as me?
How long have you lived in Scotland? For me, it’s 56 years. Scottish wife, Scottish kids, Scottish grandchildren. How long have you lived here?
Actually I like your post quite a lot particularly because you believe Scotland is a distinct country. The UK Government’s legal advice stated that Scotland was extinguished in 1707 and became Lesser England.
You seem very defensive. I didn’t suggest that you weren’t Scottish just that according to ‘Southernbystander’ you could define yourself as English just by virtue of the fact that you live in England
Nothing wrong with being English. In many respects you are English.
Do you believe that to be Scottish you need 3 fully Scottish grandparents, be born in Scotland and spend 19 years here?
What would make your grandparents fully Scottish?
Not quite sure why you are so keen to emphasis your Scottishness you could be English, Welsh or Irish and still be able to post your views on Scottish Independence/The Union here.
Your Scottishness doesn’t give your views any more credence than any other Unionist living outside Scotland.
I don’t know what age you are now but if you are more than 39 years you have spent more time living outwith Scotland.
Keep at ’em Ruby
I’m still waiting on an answer too.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/now-the-traffic-lights-change/comment-page-1/#comment-2797822
Even the beloved UK of Nu English has a spectrum which determines democratic engagement amongst other factors. EU citizens being able to gain either pre or full settled status after a certain length of time.
All my life.
What do you mean by Scottish?
@Ruby and A Scot Abroad.
I’m wondering if we should be careful of the old ‘blood and soil’ discussion. If those are used as any grounds for Scottish independence we’ve already lost. If you live in Scotland, pay taxes in Scotland, care about the well being and betterment of the nation, you’re as Scottish as you like.
Seeing as it is quiet on here and nobody has picked up and run with #BLM (Bat Lives Matter in the ASHP debate). Here’s a link back to some previous franchise smanchise discussion when the vocal Ellis used to frequent btl.
I’ll link to J.o.e’s post as a starter just because he at least generally stated clearly what he thought.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/as-it-is-and-when-it-was/comment-page-1/#comment-2674884
Change is generally always limited by those that are reluctant to break out of the current normal.
An example being when disco was first dropped as can be seen in series Vinyl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEGqUKs3xBM
https://wingsoverscotland.com/now-the-traffic-lights-change/comment-page-2/#comment-2798232
He does tell us here why he thinks he’s Scottish.
Alex Salmond once called us a mongrel nation, and that is true for just about every country.
Voting bases can only be built on consensus of several groups.
I think there an important distinction between those who have to be granted citizenship and those freeborn on the land.
Those who have been granted citizenship are at the mercy of Government gerrymandering more so than those born with Common Law rights.
This could become important as we enter the era of Technofacism.
Garrion…
“If you live in Scotland, pay taxes in Scotland, care about the well being and betterment of the nation, you’re as Scottish as you like.”
If you lived in the UK, paid taxes in the UK, cared about the wellbeing and betterment of the state, you were as British as you liked, but you still didn’t automatically get a vote in 2016 if you weren’t British!
Please differentiate between 2014 and 2016 on that basis, especially given that Scottish voters polled 52/48 in favour of Yes in 2014, but non-Scots swung it 55/45 in favour of No.
Had EU citizens not been excluded in 2016, do you recon the outcome would’ve been 52/48 in favour of Leave?
PS I once subscribed to your view quoted above, but given the continued ‘White Flight’ from furth of Scotland, particularly to rural areas, now I’m not so sure…
Ruby,
my definition of what makes a person Scottish is taken from the Irish government, which back in 2014 at IndyRef was proposed by the SNP to be adopted for iScotland. In essence, if you had one Irish grandparent (evidence from census returns, births marriages and deaths registers and other public records), you would be qualified to become an Irish citizen on application. If you had two or more Irish grandparents, then not only citizenship but deemed Irish as well.
That was the SNP’s thinking back in 2014. I think there was a third category to cover those living in Scotland, but not Scottish, but I can’t recall the details of that.
I think the SNP have a different policy now for citizenship, based on residency, and I haven’t heard of anything about ethnicity from them. Some would say that’s not a matter for governments as it is a social distinction, not a legal one, and they may be correct.
Garrion says:
24 October, 2023 at 7:06 pm
@Ruby and A Scot Abroad.
I’m wondering if we should be careful of the old ‘blood and soil’ discussion.
Why scared in case ‘Better Together’ call us Nazis?
It could be argued that it would be a good idea to define exactly what ‘Scottish’ means and that when people come to stay here to stay they don’t have to be ‘Scottish’ or ‘New Scottish’
Ruby @8:27 pm.
“They were never colonised but you could say the English are the descendant of the people who inhabited England before it became part of Great Britian & the UK.”
Interesting. What about the Romans, Saxons and Normans? Depends how you define ‘colonisation’ I guess.
I read that with interest. Not that I know much about bats. I have read in a couple of these books that I told you I like (drugs, sex & motorclycle gangs) about villages/seaside resorts being saved from evil developers because bats were discover so the village couldn’t be destroyed and turned into a holiday destination for rich tourists.
These stories were set in America where I believe bats are a protected species.
Were you thinking the bats could help you put an end to the installation of these Tinnitus inducing pumps?
I just googled and found out:
Bats and the law – Advice – Bat Conservation Trust
In Britain all bat species and their roosts are legally protected, by both domestic and international legislation. This means you may be committing a criminal offence if you: Deliberately take, injure or kill a wild bat.
Lorna & Patrick arrested for cruelty to bats.
All installations of heatpumps to stop immediately.
This place is just so educational. Now I know something about bats.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/now-the-traffic-lights-change/comment-page-2/#comment-2798271
We are not talking citizenship at the moment being that there is no Scottish citizenship.
The discussion is about ‘Scottishness’
The UK Gov did say there would be no dual Scottish/RUK nationality.
I remember watching one of these Westminster committees discussing it during IndyRef14. In one of them there was an Irishman talking about what Ireland did. He wasn’t impressed with Westminsters plans not to allow dual Scottish-RUK citizenship.
I particularly remember Iain Davidson ‘Scottish’ Labour MP at that time being absolutely horrified at the idea of iScotland residents receiving a heating allowance from Westminster in the event of dual Scottish/RUK citizenship being allowed.
In the event of you having to choose which would it be?
Scottish or RUK?
Let’s not forget the traffic lights change. There is a perfect junction near me. Call’s itself All Ways. Goes North West , North , north east, southwest, south and south east.
The road crossings for pedestrians are typically ignorant of the population. The population considered lesser than those passing by.
What do I mean ?
Typing it slowly so those who like to drive their cars as fast as they hey like yet are unable to move at more than 5mph themselves can compute.
Three of the four pedestrian crossings at this junction allow pedestrians/ people to cross halfway. Then you have to wait another light cycle to reach the other side of the road.
It’s as if the educated highway engineer has never thought people want to cross a road. Not just halfway.
The one crossing that allows foot folk to cross a road entirely is by chance the side where college students might cross. Total coincidence.
Piss takers do what it says on the UK
I’m a bit surprised that people aren’t talking about the detention process as applied to Craig Murray.
Mind you, I am amazed that parliamentarians aren’t doing anything about the abuse of process in respect of Julian Assange. What happened to British justice and fair play?
@ Ruby
I’m more interested in what he thinks makes everyone else Scottish enough to have a legitimate and justified vote on determining Scotland’s future. He lists he’s Scottish as he has Scottish grandparents, also that he doesn’t now live here, but he has eluded to travelling up to get a vote so basically trolling that abusing the electoral system is fine by him.
But what of an English student, or transient worker, or military personnel sited on a a Scottish base, with no Scottish ancestry and who are only here for a temporary duration with no long term commitment or obligation to stay in Scotland.
I knew of EU citizens that were quite happy to take advantage of free healthcare and uni education but were prepared to up sticks and leave for better pastures if need be. Scots didn’t have that luxury.
Fuck knows! Any of them looking to be recognised as Scottish or English?
@ Ruby
Re. Bats, aye that was my line of thinking. It was also something I though of when I saw the extent of the land being cleared around Taymouth Castle in the ongoing Kenmore development when I saw all the trees that have been cleared to make way for the new building plots for all these millionaires. Just seems odd that bat lives only matter in certain circumstances which is basically when the aspect can be leveraged to fuck over and restrict the wee people, whilst big money developers and big “government” ASHP installation initiatives can ride roughshod over the rights of bats and other wildlife. Beavers still get a free pass too as they are still busy indiscriminately gnawing fuck out of trees around my locale. Yet I can’t get the council to copice and prune trees along the rural roads so bus services can continue to operate and serve the wee Scots folks. But it’s cool to strip woodland and build loads of expensive properties and a helipad in Kenmore though…
Ruby @8:18 pm.
“Fuck knows! Any of them looking to be recognised as Scottish or English?”
Were the English ‘colonised’ and thus, in ScotNat terms, in some way harmed by that process?
Being Scottish is easy.
If you believe in the Claim of Right and popular constitutional sovereignty of the Scottish people, then enjoy your Scottish citizenship.
If you don’t respect the Sovereign Constitution, then you literally reject what constitutes being Scottish, so do the maths …
The sovereignty of the people continues, but if individuals want to abdicate their individual sovereign interests, then so be it. It’s their constitutional right to do so, but they should think of the consequences.
Breeks @ 8:45 pm
“if individuals want to abdicate their individual sovereign interests”
In a colonial society the process of cultural assimilation leads to many among the native group assuming a new identity, i.e. that of the colonizer; in that event it is only the values of colonizer that are sovereign.
Ask an English man if Scots should take the reins for a while, in charge of all the purse strings, in this beloved Union of theirs.
There you will find the age old answer once they’ve recovered themselves.
They do project far too much. What a stupid fucking question to ask Scots ‘what’s the point of Independence?’ lol!
Not continually being shafted of our resources is a good place to start! We’re the cash cow of this union yet thrown peanuts while Unionists constantly moan it’s shite. I wish they’d just fck off & gies all peace, ya pathetic serfs. Too stupid to see the union is a con.
Not in the mood for pleasantries on here & anyone thinking there are soft nos on here are deluded. They’re wasps to disrupt.
Take comment one. 77th Brigade. On a website dedicated to Scottish independence since 2012, literally hundreds of thousands of fcking detailed articles precisely on all of his questions if he even bothered to search. No, he is the first comment to ask dumb questions.
Mind yer own country. It’s knee deep in the shit & you’d be far better asking those same questions of yer prime minister.
Ruby says:
24 October, 2023 at 7:37 pm
“Why scared in case ‘Better Together’ call us Nazis?”
Yes. Because they will, and that will be used as a weapon.
Legal, Political and administrative independence of the country and anyone who happens to be in it is the single objective. We’ve seen what happens when any issue, from trans what-have-you to, in this case, discussions of geneology get conflated with that first principle.
Salmond’s success was in large part due to understanding and DEMONSTRATING that. Everything else is a long descent into feeling good about one’s opinions in a BTL chatfest.
Hm, it is very easy to be taken the wrong way on here.
Firstly I do not think the English and Scottish are the same, just similar (e.g. much more similar than Australian Aboriginals and European origin Australians) but obviously with enough differences to make the vital difference. But the point is, the cause for independence is essentially political not ethnic in my view.
Second I am not a unionist and support Scottish independence but will never have any say in that. So I don’t write to defend the Union.
Finally, I do not think simply moving to England or Scotland or wherever makes you immediately English or Scottish etc. But I think the change can happen quickly, depending, and certainly within two generations if not one. The standard dictionary definition I gave is very broad and hence vague because it is actually quite hard not to be vague! If that were not the case then the question of who is a Scot would be simple and this conversation would never have started.
As an aside, I found out the other day via my cousin who loves delving into these things, that on my Mother’s side, I have a direct ancestor (with my Mum’s surname) who literally came over in the company of William I in 1066. The Norman invasion was certainly colonisation (as was the Roman invasion).
Geri at 9:38 pm
“Ask an English man if Scots should take the reins for a while, in charge of all the purse strings, in this beloved Union of theirs.”
Gordon Brown PM?
Gordon Brown is a Unionist. From a unionist political party registered in London.
I mean move the whole parliament to Scotland. Have 533 seats each. Have Scotland in full control of the treasury & foreign policy. Have Scots at the UN etc.
We have absolutely zero in common with England.
They vote Tory. They’re right wing, they despise immigrants, they’re authoritarian, undemocratic & they’ve an attitude they’re superior to everyone else & punch above their weight on the world stage when they’ve nothing of their own to back up their big mouth. Everything is theirs. Whether that’s natural resources or other countries priceless artifacts.
I lived there for yrs. They have a completely different world view from Scots. We’re socialist, middle ground & would argue the toss rather than bomb things to fck.
Attitudes will change the more roasters that move here. We already see the anti Semitic pish trying to get pushed here.
If Catalonia had a referendum I’d wish them well. It’d be no e of my business how they voted – I certainly wouldn’t stick my nebb in & ask what policies they planned on having for all their future political parties! Lol!!
Geri, you’re a racist idiot.
Anyone got any Yoon links?
Geri,
This idea that Scotland and England are equal partners, deserving of the same amounts of votes each, is utter nonsense. Scotland is a minnow compared to England. Always has been. You need to accept reality. There’s nothing at all in statute law or constitution that supports your view. Nothing at all in the reality of the last 317 years.
There are Scots in the Treasury, FCDO, Home Office, UN, Ambassadors, etc. They all work for the government of the U.K. They don’t work for Scotland alone.
It’s also reality that the population in Scotland is becoming proportionately less Scottish, due to immigration from within and outwith the U.K., and net emigration of younger Scots to other parts of the U.K. and overseas. The rate of dilution is slowly increasing, year on year. I’d suggest that in less than two decades (ie babies born now coming of age to vote) there isn’t any future hope of winning an Indyref. That’s just current rends applied to maths and a forecast.
Sarah,
Yes, concerned about Craig Murray and curious about this latest harassment. War on terror legislation being used to harass a dissident? Who orders him to be detained on his return to Scotland, what level was it at, why were his movements being monitored?
‘You haven’t been charged therfor you can’t deny use your passwords/logins etc’ Can you be shocked but not surprised at the same time?We await further developments.
Civil liberies are being eroded – womens rights, child protection, free speech, the right to a trial by jury, the right to the presumption of innocence, the right to protest or to blow the whistle or to support causes that run counter to the British/canadian/US/German/EU line.
I don’t agree with Craig Murray along with everyone else on everything (that was the fault of the lord above providing us with a brain each) but I have bags of respect for the man. He’s a superb Scottish nationalist as well which means there is a bit more than just respect there.
Where does this end?
So how is it that over the course of this 300 year union the comparative population growth rate disparity between the two Kingdoms has not been properly addressed seeing that no constituent part of the UK should have advantage over another.
At the start of the union the Kingdom of England’s population was approximately 5 times that of the Kingdom of Scotland, yet it has now grown to approximately ten times with all the economic advantage that gives the KoE in supporting infrastructure developments and tax takes from a larger population. That under London Rule there has been no serious political will displayed or policies implemented to redress this imbalance just shows how badly Scotland is served by the union.
According to Nu English Scotland is a minnow compared to England…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/spoiler-alert/comment-page-1/#comment-2771335
That doesn’t make sense!
Some non European origin English could be as different from European origin English as Australian Aboriginals and European origin Australians.
As Australian Aboriginals have presumably lived in Australia all their lives they could be even more similar to European Australians than an Englishman originally from Africa.
Do you think all ‘English’ are the same just by virtue of the fact that they live in England.
That is the problem with the Union.
Dan, re increasing population disparity,
There’s probably a combination of factors:
Scots emigration to parts of the old British Empire was higher per capita than English emigration.
External immigration into the U.K. per capita was higher into England than Scotland.
Scots emigration to England.
Scots birth rates lower than England’s.
It’s just numbers and data, but fundamentally, there’s been for 300 years more economic opportunity to be found in England or overseas in the Empire than there has been in Scotland, for nearly all of the time. There was a period from 1975 to 1985 when that wasn’t the case (the North Sea oil boom), but it’s very largely the case over the full 317 years.
Here we go again with the term Scottish.
What does that actually mean.
Just to set some official opinions straight on Scotland compared to England politically wrote down.
It is as follows ,
The Westminster parliament in England states the Scottish parliament was extinguished in 1707 in England at Westminster.
One difference,
The Westminster parliament state that Queen Anne of Englands throne succession dissolved the Scottish parliament by proclamation in 1707,
Two differences,
Queen Anne to the throne of England was never Crowned or had any ceremony to be Crowned Queen of Scots or their territory.
Three differences,
That the Westminster parliament continued into the British parliament “on its own” after extinguishing AND dissolving the Scottish parliament in both cases from the treaty of union.
Four differences between Scotland and England politically.
But political differences that are very important.
Scotland was politically thrown out the treaty of union, by acts and proclamations of the Westminster parliament of England..
Hey ho I don’t mind that they advertise it to the world in their statements on their parliamentary site.
That they are the Westminster parliament in England,
And if the treaty was somehow viewed by themselves as still stand legally with Scotland I would love to hear their explanation spiel on why it thought Scotland was part of Englands UK.
There is a difference between Scotland and England politically,
We were chucked out the treaty of union twice.
I’ll tell you what, Ruby. People might be getting a bit bored with you constantly asking questions, and then rather petulantly demanding answers. Nobody here on WoS is beholden to run around answering your whims.
Why don’t you go and find out for yourself?
Where would these NO voting New Scots come from?
Would all immigrants be vetted before being allowed to stay.
Any showing any sign of possibly supporting Scottish Independence would not be getting their ‘Leave to Remain’
Yes! Being part of the Union has been detrimental for Scotland.
I can understand why Scottish Unionists want to remain in the Union but why would English Unionists want Scotland in their Union? It makes no sense.
What are the financial benefits for England of having Scotland in their Union.
Oh gawd! I’ve asked that question 100s of times already as have many others but it would seem Lord Naw-Naw missed out on the IndyRef debate so it might be new to him. Lets see what he comes up with.
I’m bored already and I haven’t even pressed the Submit button.
Tommo, you are not alone. Paranoid conspiracy theorists here show why Scottish independence is a non-starter, given the educational levels of the contributors.
The political difference between Scotland and England are enormous,
Scotland has been thrwn out of the treaty of union twice by Westminster.
Once when Westminster stated it was a extinguished parliament of Scotland from the treaty in 1707,
And the second time When queen Anne of England dissolved the Scottish parliament in Westminster parliament in England, by proclamation.
Basically the Scottish parliament was thrown out of Westminster treaty of union twice,
There is a difference between the two,
We have retained out last monarch crown in Scotland, And after the Scottish parliament was kicked out of Westminster twice officially
Relax Lord Naw-Naw you’re getting all wound up again!
I don’t think people are getting bored they are loving seeing you losing it.
Hey remember when Labour flooded the UK with Labour voting immigrants?
Do you think they’ll do the same with NO voting immigrants?
Just why the fuck is the UK Gov so desperate to hang onto Scotland???
Labour flooding the UK with Labour voting immigrants could be the reason why the English are thought to be racist.
Maybe it’s not racism just a desire to preserve English culture.
Got to give it some nasty name like racism or blood & soil nationalism.
England has a larger population because they used immigrants to rebuild little England after the war. Loaded onto boats like slaves for the promise of a better life – now they want to load them back again despite being English. (Windrush)
Total users.
That’s where all the sweatshops were located. Now they’ve outstayed their welcome & their offspring seen as criminals.
Scotland has less because the English are in control of immigration along with everything else & the clearances never stopped. Even today huge swathes of land is owned by some English tosser wearing a kilt telling us all we’d be a scrubland without them.
I’m not racist. I’m realist. I lived in England for years. They absolutely despise foreigners, Scots, Taffies & Paddies, Germans, French, polish, Russians, Muslims, Pakistanis, indians…the list is endless. But here’s an idea, spend a day listening to LBC radio or some other English phone in & experience it for yourself. Angry Brit nats who want to teach everyone else a lesson.
Sunak used to remove Bojo but he won’t be in office for long. Braverman used to hail in racist policies just as Patel before her – only to hide behind.
The only ppl they like are the yanks & the Israelis. Two fellow colonisers.
Scotland will be Independent.
England will become the 51st state of yankdom.
An equal union has equal representatives. Scotland never entered the agreement as subordinate. If we did then stop referring it as a union & a united kingdom.
Yes, all reliably bonkers as always.
The reality is that not a single one of the pro-Indy BTL comments on WoS is ever going to make any difference whatsoever to Scotland. Because none of you are connected with the grown ups that actually take the decisions in London and Edinburgh. You don’t know them, you don’t think like them, you don’t see the same things as them, and for many of them, including nominally pro-Indy parties and politicians, you don’t really matter to them.
With the arguable exception of Alex Salmond, (who I don’t rate highly, but that’s by the by), there’s literally nobody on the pro-Indy side of the debate in Scotland who is even vaguely competent. It’s just ignorable nonsense.
Could the fuckin Yoon Scotland haters who dont live in Scotland and take the fuckin Quislings with you.
Who exactly do you rate because they’ve all been shite for Scotland.
There is zero point to Unionists in Holyrood. Zero. They serve zero purpose.
Over 600 comments on here.
I bet 550 are yoons telling us how shite Scotland is. How shite BTL comments are, how shite this site is & how we should all just forget about Independence & go back to direct rule where we all lived in some sort of utopia before the SNPEEE & the Scottish electorate pissed on their parade.
I don’t know why they waste so much time here. The daily fail must be missing them.
Geri,
the purpose of the unionists in Holyrood is that at reasonable portion of the people of Scotland elected them.
It’s not up to you to try to dictate who can sit in Holyrood or Westminster. It’s the people who do that. And you only get one vote, which I suspect you waste on either not voting, or voting for a someone who’s never going to achieve anything. That’s your right, no bigger or smaller than anyone else’s right.
Ruby aka Rugby (ball) 4.14pm
STILL on my case I see.
I noticed when you responded to me that you only quoted a snippet from my original post.
So I thought I would show the original post in full that was sent to you.
Lots of good advice included in the post:-
“You’ve turned into a nasty wee fat piece of work lately.
You and You’re house must be stinkin,,,because as far as I can make out, you seem to be sitting on your fat arse abusing other punters all day, every day.
Calm down dear, calm down.
Buy a treadmill and maybe try to offload some of the bulk that is attached to your torso.
Elasticated knickers will never work if you are just going to sit at your computer abusing people.
And try cutting down on the takeaways.
Have a target,,,try getting down from a size 24 to about size 22.
It won’t improve your chances of getting a man,,but it will help take the strain off of the poor computer chair your arse is never done sitting on.
Ruby is one letter away from being Rugby.
Which would be more appropriate for you, considering your basic shape is that of a Rugby ball,,,too much sitting at computers does that to a women’s shape.
Have a nice day Ruby,,,or is it Rugby (ball).”
So funny!!!
Don’t you think???
I read somewhere once, that the two books to be found all Scottish houses were The Bible and Burns poetry.
Since Burns’ days we have been fed relentlessly with N. British jingoism, the BBC to the fore, dumbing-down and breaking-up Scottish society.
On here, we have old Brit soldiers who have ruined other countries in their day, returning home to chip away at our self-esteem with mockery of our speech and our abilities.
Yet here we still are, with interest in Independence at levels higher than any since universal suffrage began.
JohnIm,
which countries have WoS BTL commenters “ruined”?
Garrion @9:39 pm
Post the coughid war they might get away with calling all Palestinians German by way of introducing genocide as a respectable form of contemporary land acquisition – but if (as you appear to fear) the liblabcon adopts two world wars and one world cup as the central plank of its next serious campaign in Scotland, the chances of it backfiring must be quite high regardless.
ASA
Most oily countries have to be kept in line or ruined to support the Yankee dollar.
General Wesley Clarke gave us the hit-list.
All wars are banker wars.
AngloAmerica has to ‘peacekeep’ the shit out of some countries.
– “White mans burden.” And all that.
” Al says:
25 October, 2023 at 12:16 am
” Tommo, you are not alone. Paranoid conspiracy theorists here show why Scottish independence is a non-starter, given the educational levels of the contributors. ”
Check Bamber Gastropod there , an intellectual giant , obv , sneering at – what he imagines are – other peoples’ ” educational levels ” ; and how-the-fuck do you know what these are , Bambi ? That’s right , you don’t , you’re making a value judgement based on the WORDS you’re reading , of people you’ve never met , and never will . Lucky them .
Tell us then , what are these ” paranoid conspiracy theories ” you refer to ; I note , like the other ” I’m a Unionist ” dimwits who seem to think we give an iota of a fuck what their opinion on Independence is , you make an assertion and omit any example to back it up .
You and your ilk must lead really boring lives , to have nothing better to do than comment on a forum which is ALL ABOUT SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE , something you all tediously remind us you’re against . Don’t you have anything better to do , like watch 6 hours of cricket on the * Beeb * , catch-up on the latest gossip from the ridiculous Windsor soap opera or cry into your * bitter * about how unfair it is that rotter Football stubbornly refuses to ” come home ” . After Engerland giving the sport to world too . LOL.
Maybe in your little post-imperial-but-still-imagine-your-* Great *- Brit- minds you actually think your verbal inanities will persuade readers here of the wisdom of staying within your ” Precious Union ” – HA ! NAW ! they won’t .
Or , more likely , your presence here is just to waste peoples’ time arguing , insult with the same objective , distract , deflect and irritate . You have a measure of success in the latter , that’s about it .
And ” Al ” , it makes no difference if you’re Scottish ; I’m referring to the Unionist mindset , which is quintessentially English – whatever convoluted , internally-colonised psychological gymnastics * Proud Scot Butts * ( sic ) may perform to deny this truth .
BTW . I love English musical , literary , artistic etc Culture , always have , and have no problem with the mass of English people – they too have been fucked-over by the deeply entrenched , corrupt & malign Political/Financial/Monarchical * Establishment * ; alas, too many continue to believe in the myth of Anglo exceptionalism , are too easily swayed by the waving of the Union Jack ( Empire Atavism ) and continually vote for public school twats who hold them in contempt .
May be time England actually stood on it’s own – metaphorical – two feet , for once , and dispensed with the props of other countries’ resources .
Maybe it too could ” Be a nation again ” . Give it a go ; don’t be scared of the uncertainty , embrace it , aspire to
Make England Quite Good Again .
@A Scot Abroad;
Scotland may be a minnow in size compared to England, but it is a sovereign minnow, and that makes it equal to every other sovereign nation across the world, including England.
That you focus on comparing size rather than comparing rights tells us all we need to know about you, and your precious Union. Might does not confer right. Fundamentally, just like England in the Union, you are a bully.
Robert Hughes says on 25 October 2023 at 8:02 am:
“Check Bamber Gastropod there, an intellectual giant..”
LOL! That gave me a good watery-eyes laugh on this typical damp & dreek Scottish day. Brilliant!
JOHNLM
That Bible, a solid black bound protestant tome was in English, from which Unionism has drawn its xenophobic, cultural rationale ever since.
It all began, literally, with the anglophile J Knox and friends.
That statue before the former «college kirk o Sanct Geill» in Edinburgh is a lowering testament to his enduring psychological influence.
Highly improbable there could be any independence support among these.
https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/security/the-army-in-scotland/
The British military as «father and mother» to whom one owes total tribal loyalty.
General Dyer in the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre on 13 April 1919 knew that when he order his «Indian native» troops to fire on their compatriots.
TURABDIN
I’m sure there must be books written regarding The Bible as a weapon of social control.
Translation of it into Gaelic is credited with shoring up the language.
Scots got no similar translation.
Did Catholics own bibles? If not, that could explain some of their rebellious spirit.
Johnlm @ 6:27 am
“I read somewhere once, that the two books to be found all Scottish houses were The Bible and Burns poetry.”
Yes, and many more enlightened households, mostly working class, also had a copy of Robert Tressell’s ‘The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’.
However, in any colonial society an oppressed people really need also to access anti-colonial literature which explains their particular colonial ‘condition’, what independence means and why it is necessary:
https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/the-socio-political-determinants-of-scottish-independence/
https://scottishindypod.scot/mibbes-aye-show/doun-hauden/
The posters on this site fall into 4 categories-
1) The rabid Nationalists who want Independence for Scotland. Nothing more, nothing less. They don’t care about the myriad of questions/problems that have to be addressed/solved. To them an honest, competent Government, in place or in waiting, is not really necessary.
2) Those who are not averse to Independence but want, at least an idea of how an Independent Scotland will actually work and who will form a Government they can trust. Most people agree Brexit was a disaster. The proposed split between Scotland and the UK will make Brexit look like a picnic in comparison.
3) Unionists who want to maintain the status quo.
4) Agitators who simply want to ‘stir the pot’. Their own views, however distorted, are the only things that matter to them and everyone else is fair game for abuse. The past, not the future, seems very important to them
A fair number of posters appear to be Alba supporters or at least sympathetic to their cause. Bear in mind that these individuals and let’s be generous here, amount to 3% of the electorate. Alba could not even put up a candidate for the recent by-election in Rutherglen, probably knowing they would lose their deposit. In all honestly, can they and their supporters be taken seriously at this time?
I don’t know how many people in Scotland have more than a passing interest in ‘Politics’. I suspect that it is not very high. Generally all we hear/read/listen to is from the rabid minority as can be evidenced from the comments on sites like these. Turnout at elections is falling as people become more and more disinterested by the whole sham and realise that politicians are primarily more concerned about self interest, which to be fair is a natural human trait.
Scotland is in for a long period of continued infighting amongst the populace. It probably suits the UK ‘establishment’ for this to roll along forever. Which political party in Scotland currently has the support to challenge this? I will give you the answer-NONE.
One the SNP is finished, won’t be long now, there will be an opportunity for Scotland to reform politically. A phoenix may arise but again the questions, problems will need to be addressed and solutions found if traction is to be found amongst the electorate. It may be a while.
For the avoidance of doubt I place myself in category 2 above.
Chas @ 10.53
I fear that voter alienation and disinterest nationally in both the UK and Scotland is going to result in truly minority administrations, as only the totally committed will bother to cast their votes. I know amongst my friends and neighbours the general attitude is, “what’s the point, they’re all in it for themselves; and they’re all the same, anyway”. Which, when you look at the pretty universal support for the GRR Bill in Holyrood, does seem fairly accurate. (Yes, I appreciate that the Conservatives voted against the unamended Bill for their own reasons).
And so, in Scotland with our D’Hondt closed list voting system we finish up with the likes of Messrs Harvie & Slater dictating policy as Ministers … would anyone seriously suggest that they are what a majority of Scots voters want ?
And, it will only get worse, I fear.
JohnIm,
you made a specific comment about “old Brit soldiers” ruining countries and posting about it on WoS. I made a query about who you had in mind, as I’m a Brit soldier who has served abroad in war and on peacekeeping, and suspect that I am one of those you might be thinking of. Who the others might be, I don’t know.
You reply with some nonsense about the USA and General Wesley Clark. That’s not really an answer, is it, as the USA corporately and General Clark don’t post on WoS.
So, final offer, either substantiate your claim, or fuck off.
Chas,
a very reasonable summation. To extend it, in my view here on WoS and the BTL commenters, I’d say the breakdown is:
1. 80%
2. 10%
3. 5%
4: 5%
I’d place myself in Category 3. When I arrived at WoS, I’d put myself in Category 2, but in interacting with other posters in Category 1, they’ve moved me to Category 3. There are some seriously angry and stupid people posting on WoS, and I don’t want that to be the future of Scotland.
O/T: Share the judge’s remarks on sentencing Andrew Miller/Amy George with your MSPs and MPs.
I have now sent the judge’s remarks to two of my MSPs who supported the GRR Bill. I will carry on to the non-SNP ones. I had corresponded with them all during the passage of the Bill pointing out the obvious dangers of self-identification.
It is important that our MSPs see the consequences of their reckless [to put it mildly] decisions. May I suggest that the many btl commenters spend some of their time on sending the judge’s remarks to all their MSPs? Every party at Holyrood gave some support to the GRR Bill so every MSP [apart from the few who voted against] of whatever party can be included.
The link was given by BigJay on the previous thread on 18th October at 3.55 p.m.. [I have omitted the https:// element as I seem to remember we are advised not to include it.] It is http://www.judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2023/10/18/hma-v-andrew-miller
Sarah @ 11.35
In the absence of WoS having a like button, please accept this as a “love” emoji for this suggestion.
ASA
As a cog in the machine, institutionalised and working on only a ‘need to know’ basis
you maybe genuinely don’t understand how the world works.
Indeed, I was thinking of you aiding NATO in Yugoslavia and putting Saddam in his place on behalf of the financial community.
The complete link has appeared in my post and does work even without the “s”.
Sunday is the celebration of 100 years of Turkish independence. Just think how good that must feel.
It’s about time Scotland got its finger out!
A Scot Abroad
I can’t argue against your figures re breakdown although I would suggest that there is a marked overlap between categories 1) and 4)
Am off to thrash the wee dimpled ball now. Birdies galore!!!!
@ Sven: Thanks – taken as written! I do hope that the MSPs get the facts presented to them multiple times and force them to think again on GRR.
“I’d place myself in Category 3. When I arrived at WoS, I’d put myself in Category 2, but in interacting with other posters in Category 1, they’ve moved me to Category”
ASA, I believe that would put you firmly in the category of liar.
Logic, reason and a multitude of evidence has already been presented to answer the questions that deeply disturb you and Chas on the viability of an independent Scotland.
Although, it is nice of Chas and chums to take a timeout from rewriting the complete works of Shakespeare to post his concerns.
Bla bla bla Colonialism! bla bla bla MI5! bla bla bla Sovereignty! bla bla bla Queen Anne! bla bla bla 1707! bla bla bla Oppressed People! bla bla bla Nation! bla bla bla Big Words! bla bla bla I’m Clever! bla bla bla bla bla Quote from Ancient Document! bla bla bla…
Talking of seriously stupid/ angry, and
Seeing as its roll over and tickle my tummy/ rip the piss day at westminster, a half decent question might be that, if the current kill squads can obliterate baddies with pin point accuracy, was the failure to share information with the Israeli government/ military/ population in advance of the surprise (organised) massacre a deliberate oversight – or simply criminal negligence.
Anniversary of the Light Peacekeepers Brigade riding into The Valley of death in 1854 today.
I would place Chas & Lord Naw Naw very firmly in category 3.
If I were on here trying to sell Independence I wouldn’t waste my time with those 2. These two are hardcore Unionists.
These two are on here trying to sell Unionism. These two being representative of what Unionism means they’ve probably
turned more NOs to YES.
What was Chas used to call independence supporters? Some Scottish term used in a pejorative manner.
Something about tartan & heather.
Obviously Unionists wouldn’t be seen dead in tartan.
You’ve been posting your categories on here for quite a long time now Chas as a result everyone knows which category you are.
Lord Naw Naw of the Naw Baws is so at a loss to say what makes him Scottish he has to quote from an Irish Government document.
ANTHEM
Turkey aka Ottoman Sultanate was a multi-ethnic colonial power in its day.
Mustafa Kemal called Atatürk, father of the Turks, created a regional nation state where previously none had existed.
In doing so Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, Jews and Kurds were subjected to cultural oppression.
Turkish nationalism is not something to celebrate for the above «minorities».
Mornin’ Sarah
I wouldn’t waste my time with the GRRB Scotland bill.
The big problem is the GRA 2004.
The GRRB is just the GRA 2004 with some slight modifications.
JohnIm,
I (and 150,000 others) went into Kuwait via Iraq in order to liberate the country after it had been invaded. With full UN support. Nothing to be ashamed of there. And I spent 27 months over 5 years in Yugoslavia either with the UN or NATO to stop the murderous fuckers from killing each other, and the women and children of the villages, and to make sure that it didn’t happen again. Nothing to be ashamed of there, either.
Just in case you’ve forgotten the message from my earlier post, you can fuck right off. From now on, you’ll be nothing but an ignorable little Jessie.
Their reasons were to fool people into thinking they didn’t support sex changes & men identifying as women.
The GRA 2004 encourages men to dress up as women.
The GRRB isn’t law but still Andrew Miller has been masquerading as a woman for years.
The only way to stop any of this is
1. Absolutely no sex changes
2. ‘Woman Face’ to be made a hate crime.
Or at least to be made as unacceptable as ‘Black Face’
Surely it wouldn’t be that difficult to make ‘Woman Face’ and
‘Black Face’ a hate crime.
I definitely hate it and the fact that the ‘trans butcher’ was able to kidnap and sexually abuse a child because of his ‘woman face’ makes me hate it even more.
Ruby,
re tartan. I wore it on parade for nearly 20 years. I have some tartan trews that I wear with a dinner jacket when in Scotland. A silk tartan scarf if in Edinburgh. And the library chairs in our house in Norfolk are upholstered in my mother’s clan tartan.
Draw the line at a kilt, though. Wore one at school on Sundays. Didn’t like it.
@ Ruby: please don’t put people off from sending the judge’s remarks on Andrew Miller to the MSPs. We must use every opportunity to push the facts on gender into the heads of the MSPs.
Your point about the GRA is separate though obviously connected.
I hope you will put some of your energy into sending the Miller judgment to the MSPs.
Ruby @ 13.09
I inserted that qualifier in my post especially for you, Ruby.
Sorry Sarah I’ve given up on the MSPs they are a lost cause.
It doesn’t seem I have much influence on anyone here so I wouldn’t worry.
JOHNLM
The role of the King James Authorized version in animating the colonial/imperialist spirit is well known. It was regarded as a tool of civilization by the educators who walked hand in hand with the military and civil authorities. Schooling in its classic English style, and the cadences of the Book of Common Prayer was a mark of the true Brit.
That other «book religion», Islam had a rather more solid and enduring influence on conquered peoples.
Curiously, Palestine as a geographic entity first appeared in 19th century Lutheran Bibles as well as travel guides. The older terms were Judea, Samaria, Galilee, Israel or the Holy Land.
A term used to describe my ancestral ethnicity, Assyrian, was the brainchild of a 19th Anglican missionary. Syriac or Chaldean is the modern, rather inadequate, terminology.
Again all very curious.
There were «Catholic» vernacular Bible translations in use before the reformation for religious instruction of those without Latin competence.
Translation, as now, is a «hot potato». How skilled is the translator in the source language. A version is not a translation.
Stu, are you and your family keeping well,?
I hope your silence is to do with taking a break or to check out nature for a bit of piece and wildlife for photography.
@Ron Clark says:24 October, 2023 at 9:18 am
the likes of John Main
Jeezo. Ah’ve bin aff dain somfink useful fir mair than twa wiks, bit ah see puir auld Ronnie is still fixated oan fit ah may be thinkin.
Fixate nae mair, Ronnie boy, ah’m thinking ye need tae get a wee life fer yersel.
Today’s a stoater o a day fer ye tae start. Guid luck tae ye.
Anyone heard if Stu and his family are alright?
Wow! You are really a Scot!
What about the porridge, deep fried Mars bars, haggis, heather, Buckfast and Saltires?
20 years in the British Army. That makes you pretty ancient.
That makes more time living outside Scotland than in Scotland.
Most of these years you spent in Scotland you were just a child but hey being forced to wear a kilt on a Sunday at school probably had an influence.
A school that forces you to wear a kilt on Sunday probably could account for your hardcore Unionism too.
I fuckin’ hate tartan furniture, tartan carpets, tartan cushions, tartan chairs, tartan scarves and all tartan tat. I particularly hate the CU Jimmy hats. You got one of these?
Did you buy your tartan trews for £9.99 on the Royal Mile?
@A Scot Abroad says:25 October, 2023 at 1:13 pm
Ah hae a wee touch o the Scottish tartan face masel. Ah blame the weather, although unkind chiels mak reference tae ma liking o the occasional dram …
Kenning this place as ah do, I expect ane o they ootspoken banning regulars tae be alang in a wee minute, calling fae ‘tartan face’ tae be banned.
Which will be a great peety, and inconvenience maybes a million Sovereign Scots. Quite a few o them o the female variety, if my observations doon the chipper are representative across a’ o Scotland.
Cheers!
The Yoons are ramping it up, congratulating each other’s comments even though they’re all in the same room *lolz*
Scroll on by, folks.
Ex-galley-slave John Knox’s plan for universal education was hampered by greedy nobles and was slow to be implemented by the Scots Parliament. Following is an excerpt from an online article —
JOHN KNOX AND EDUCATION
by Graham A. Duncan (University of Pretoria, 2017)
“John Knox’s (et al.) Book of Discipline (1560) provided a blueprint for a national education scheme, which included parish primary schools, burgh grammar schools, high schools and the development of the three existing ancient universities of St Andrew’s, Glasgow and Aberdeen. The purpose of such education was ‘the vertue and godlie upbringing of the youth of this Realm’ (MHSE:1) and was envisioned as a partnership between home, school and kirk. The Scottish parliament’s failure to pass it into law is unfortunate but as time passed many of its educational elements were adopted.
“Knox’s national educational system provided for schools to be financed by the accumulated wealth of the church and monasteries, which were being overthrown in Scotland, but the nobles refused to approve this financial scheme because they wanted to divide the spoils among themselves (Burleigh 1960:176; Eby 1971:275). Thus, the poverty of the Scottish nation and a difficult political situation militated against the successful implementation of this project until the Act for Setting Schools was passed in 1696, which required all parishes to provide a school, a schoolhouse and dominie (schoolmaster). The Kirk was instrumental in the provision of this scheme, which was the origin of the high regard in which Scottish education came to be regarded by having the highest standard of literacy in Europe (MHSE:2).
“Knox offered no detailed curriculum, perhaps because he felt the existing trivium and quadrivium would suffice as they had done hitherto; these would include Catechism, grammar, Latin, philosophy, languages and arts – in sum a broad-based liberal education. Apart from the outcomes-based nature of the educational process, Knox’s support of the liberal arts also acknowledged the value of education for its own sake and as a basis for further professional studies, for example, in medicine or law. In larger schools, classical languages, rhetoric and logic would be added. Then, learners might proceed to universities that were to be upgraded.”
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318042683_John_Knox_and_education
Unionist minded people on here do not make themselves appear to pleasant to the rest of the world,
In one breath mocking Scots languages and culture, and national dress, insuring Scots are phsyicalogicaly belittled make scots fell ashamed of anything they are.
Then those same unionist minded people tell us they wear the tartan like a cloak to embody and disguise themselves as Being Scottish,
Clothes do not maketh the man.
It is what is inside those Cothes,
All the elite come to Scotland, don the Scottish national dress and play act being Scottish for their hols.like little girls pretending to be princesses.
Not really sure why Tartan, or the Kilt (which garment I have happily worn for around half a century now) seem to be upsetting fook.
I never really noticed that kilt wearing seemed to hold back the likes of William Wolfe from his enthusiastic support for an independent Scotland.
Although, admittedly both he and I preceded “See You Jimmie headgear and ginger wigs”.
The hobnobs not only pretending they are by their own admission tartan unionists …….
Never judge a book by its cover.
Ruby,
I used to be a soft No. Could become one again, but only with great caution. Since starting reading BTL comments on WoS, I’ve realised with horror just how stupid most Scots Indy supporters actually are. There’s no way I’d want that lot to have any meaningful input into my country, because they’d make life far far worse for normal Scots.
Next thing you know all the transitionals will be wearing kilts as part of their stance they are female,
Would that the Trivium and Quadrivium were still being taught today.
Return society to rational thought and sanity.
@ James Che: the Rev is active on twitter so I presume he is alive.
32 minutes ago he tweeted “God, I’m so bored.”
There’s nothing happening in Scottish politics to warrant a new post from him, sadly.
Sven.
There is a distinct difference between donning a countries national dress and Colonising a dress while you do not have any believe or Support for the Country.
Even Ghislane Maxwell with jeffery Epstein donned the tartan when they were on the royal estate,
True Scottish people in their own national dress seldom resort to silk and mix in such circles.
It is beneath them.
As the founder of SNP (and British Labour)said, almost 100 years ago,
“The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls.
Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
As I child I went about looking like ‘Katie Morag’ but not with such a posh jumper. I had jumpers knitted from ‘Harris Tweed’ wool. They lasted for every and were super scratchy but they were waterproof.
I did have a special highland dancing outfit. I loved that the tartan had nothing to do with my ‘clan’ it was ‘Dress Stewart’ the white tartan. I love it but it didn’t fare so well when I fell off the stage and into the mud at the local Highland Games. The stage wasn’t big enough for my fantastical Sword Dance.
I did have a job where I was forced to wear a kilt. I hated that ‘cos it made me look like the side of a house. No idea what tartan it was I think it was BumBee.
Things have changed quite a lot since the important of all things tartan from China and the constant blaring of ‘Scottish’ music from the pejoratively called ‘Tartan Tat’ shops.
However I still like to see men dressed up in their kilts for weddings. They look very smart. Highland dress has got to be the best national dress in the world provided the kilt cost more than £9.99
Not so keen on the tartan trews on men. I did have a pair of tartan drainpipes back in the day and I though they were the bumble bees knees. Great for women men should stick to kilts!
🙂
Proper kilts not pleated skirts costing £9.99 from the year long sales on the Royal Mile.
If Unionists like tartan so much how come they always use the word in such a pejorative manner? ie Tartan Moonies, tartan tories, tartan wogs etc. See Chas’ earlier posts.
Sarah,
Thank you for checking as I have never done twitter,
Good to know he is well an doing fine, I was slightly concerned ,
There is not much to speak about when it comes to political parties or the Snp in Scotland as we have all pretty much disasociated ourselves from the carrot danglers and no one in Scotland voted useless in.it was a internal affair like changing prime minsters in Westminster.
If We keep voting for deceivers we just get deceivers, or the change places with their buddies without public democratic elections half way through.
Westminster does it and their branch office in Scotland follows suit.
One sock for another, same colour same size, just a different Nit, sorry, meant to say Knit,
Aye man! I used to be a hardcore Unionist until you appeared on the scene.
There are a few things soft here BTL on Wings and it ain’t my head!
OK I’m maybe being unfair without hearing you out.
What influenced to become a soft NO. Which aspects of Scottish Independence did you like?
TURABDIN.Ha ha! It didn’t take long for one to bite!
But all the death & destruction created by the west via the Westminster parliament, European empires and the USA over the centuries are?
Get a grip ya clown!
FEARGHAS MAC FHIONNLAIGH
That things were not so benighted by ignorance before Knox…
https://ia601607.us.archive.org/30/items/prereformationsc00forbrich/prereformationsc00forbrich.pdf
British Unionism, inspired by the anti Catholic narrative of post Reformation historians and writers, constructs an image of a country so dysfunctional that only merger with England could redeem it.
Indeed, paradoxically, it is the education provided by Catholic institutions that gave the intellectual weaponry to the Protestant cause. A case of biting the hand that feeds.
And some say history has no influence upon the contemporary worldview.
A Scot Abroad says: “There are some seriously angry and stupid people posting on WoS, and I don’t want that to be the future of Scotland.”
Given that “less than 1%” (source: Rev) of the entire WOS readership ever bothers to post a comment only a lying deluded fuckwit would try and stretch that to be representative of all Scotland.
Another fact that exposes your utter shite for what it is, is there are “some seriously angry and stupid people” in every single country on earth. And not one of them will ever get near being a part of their country’s government. But because WOS has some “seriously angry and stupid people” you don’t want to risk Scotland having its own full proper government one day?
That’s exactly what you are expecting us to swallow. Personally, i couldn’t give a flying fuck if you never vote for indy or not. Mind you, i’d have to be convinced in the first place that you even have a vote. Something in your username sort of tells me you wouldn’t have one anyway.
Furthermore, what you are actually expecting us to believe is that you were pretty keen on the idea of indy but because of a few run-ins with certain individuals on here you are now staunchly Unionist? Away and take a flying fuck to yourself, ‘Big Bad Brit Soldier’. LOL!
You want us to believe you’re this hard-as-fuck former Brit soldier who operated in 2 savage and deadly theatres of war but you get put off indy by a few “seriously angry and stupid people” on here? By words on a screen? Posted, for all you know, by a little old lady clocking 92-years-of-age? You were never interested in indy in the first place, sodjer boy!
Thank fuck you’ll never get the chance to serve in a Scottish army because you may one day just find yourself being on a charge of cowardice if that’s the strength of your character. LOL!
FFS! Please come back ‘Andy Ellis’. At least he demonstrated a stronger constitution, as well as intelligence.
The British / Scots version of the kilt is of course entirely different from the original Scots kilt.
The Original Scots one was functional and had a purpose.
It denoted your Clan, it was your protection in bad weather, and it was your blanket whereever you were,
The sporran was your wallet an where you kept valuables in general.
There was not much in the way of fancy dress, lace and frills, certainly not silk,
ASA, this is you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
ya twat.
I hope you are still on the reserve list – get yersel some house to house in the gaza strip – check your corners, mind. We will do a whipround to get you a little drone so you can see who is in the next street.
– elvis knows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjHz5hrupA
I hate war, it’s just shit. Uk-rayne war is gay, a lot of twats flying drones to mortar the other before he does it to you. Then gaza – the israelis won’t go in as – why should they when the dumb yanks and brits will do so. NB non jewish souls come from the 3 satanic spheres, while jews are divine, so let the dumb goy die for the master race, and watch the mighty powers fall over themselves and grab their ankles for israel.
Vietnam war was best war –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQEDojPZ7YI
Rev, as you are currently bored and wanting something to do, what about writing about Liberation.scot and encouraging people to sign up to the Edinburgh Proclamation?
It cannot do any harm to the cause of restoring the power of Scotland as an independent state outwith the falsehood of the Union. And your voice would help spread the word and with any luck put the fear of God into all politicians currently in their comfortable seats.
Lots of typos but unlike ChasTity & Lord Naw Naw of the Naw Baws I don’t think you are stupid and you will figure them out for the most part.
important = importation 🙂
It’s hard to be perfect & touch type at 100 wpm and control the robots who are currently doing my housework.
Sometimes they get stuck under the bed and think they have finished the job when they clearly have not.
I’ve called them Yoon 1 & Yoon 2 could equally be called Nicola Roomba or Humza Roomba.
@Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh says:25 October, 2023 at 1:56 pm
That’s a good post and it traces the origins of the Scottish educational system that developed over time to become arguably the finest in the world.
Sadly, that reputation for excellence is now gone. There is no feasible likelihood of it being restored any time soon.
It is certainly innarestin to consider that it was whilst Scotland was completely absorbed in the Union that the Scottish educational system reached its zenith, and thus it was during that time that talented and clever Scots with no finances behind them were best able to maximise their potential to make something of their lives.
Innarestin too to consider what our SNP/Green masters might have been able to achieve with their extra tartan taxes if they had chosen to prioritise “education, education, education”. Then again, educate enough Scots and no Scots would vote for them. The question answers itself.
The English translation of the Bible was made on the orders of King James (6th and 1st) who united the crowns for the eternal benefit of Scots. The union of the parliaments, which was also brought about by Scots for the benefit of Scots, came a little over a hundred years later.
He made his command from the pulpit of the octagonal kirk in Burntisland. It still stands, unaltered. The reason why the pulpit is in the centre of the kirk is to signify the closeness of the kirk to the people and is the opposite of John Knox’s way of doing things whereby he thundered his sermons in the faces of the supplicating congregation.
If you look closely at his two statues you may notice a remarkable resemblance between him and Ayatollah Khomeini. Mere happenstance? You decide.
Lord Naw-Naw, a.k.a A Briton at Home, says “I used to be a soft No”.
ROFLMAO…
This from the guy who if still in uniform would have you hanging from the end of his bayonet if his superiors told him that as an enemy of the British State you were to be neutralised for sake of King and Country.
Modern day Redcoats.
Trolls. Don’t feed them…
Stu,
If you are bored of same old politics going around in the same never ending circles like a catch 22,
May I remind you, I am never bored of your lovely photography,
And there are many more like me,
We still manage to bring politics into the conversation and subjects on independence,
So if your game, a few of your photos or humour on here wont go amiss in Boring times in politics, it would be much appreciated to lighten everyones day,
Geri, you said:
Your implication is that those in Scotland are enthusiastic supporters of immigration. However, continuing:
If attitudes do change for the worse as a result of immigration then you won’t be able to complain too much because as you were all for the immigration in the first place, therefore you’ll just have to accept any negative changes as a consequence. D’you see? 🙂
Ruby,
Im not attracted by any part of Scots independence until there’s a very detailed plan for it, because becoming independent without a very detailed plan is akin to self-identifying as a lemming on a cliff edge. That’s why I’m a soft no, or to borrow his logic but not his words, what John Main always says. Show me the fucking plan, then I’ll consider.
Stoker,
you haven’t a fucking clue. You know nothing.
James Che @ 15.02
I’ve no intention of wandering OT onto Tartan, Kilts or even Ginger wigs on a Scottish Independence site, so this (I promise) will be my last post on Scots dress.
As regards “Clan Tartans”, I’d suggest that whilst many local or district Tartans could be noted back in the days of the ‘Great Kilt’ this was more attributable to the cloth being obtained from local weavers who used similar warp & weft settings on their handlooms and had access to vegetable dyes from dyers who developed their dyes from what was obtainable where they were.
The identification of specific setts with Clans, I’d suggest, had more to do with the Sobieski – Stuart Bros (John Carter & Charles Manning Allen) and their Vestiarium Scotium & The Costume of the Clans allied to the visit of King George IV to Edinburgh in 1822 than any other causes.
Sporrans being, historically, more usually just a leather pouch attached (usually to the side to avoid getting in the way) to the leather belt from which a Dirk would hang. The pouch itself just containing items such as a twist of tobacco, some gunpowder if the Highlander had a firearm and personal odds and ends.
I’m just not going to wander off into the Trews (which Sir John Sinclair of Ulbster maintained were the true original garb of the Highlander) however my own view would be that they were more likely the dress of the Chief/Chieftain or better off landowner who found them better suited for travelling on horse or donkey.
There’s a memorial to Henry Morris across the road with his oak tree. Discreetly behind a wall not to draw attention to the idea of universal life long education in a country dedicated to apartheid education and feudal rule.
He was undoubtedly a believer in the Knox education thought.
I have a see you jimmy hat . Russ abbot wasn’t it doing his daft Scotsman impression for the uk that popularised it ?
@The Flying Iron of Doom says:25 October, 2023 at 3:21 pm
Don’t you dare come on here and apply your logic! There’s a time and a place for that sort of thing. It’s not Wings BTL. Soz.
As the man famously said, “jist goanny no”.
An increasingly critical day for the existence of any criticism of Israel.
The UN is under threat as never before. It’s an endgame that some have always sought.
Don’t find it at all boring myself.
@Sven says:25 October, 2023 at 3:40 pm
better suited for travelling on horse or donkey
You’re forgetting the well-attested fishing community tradition of getting your wife or mother to carry you to the boat on her back at the start of a fishing trip. You would want to be wearing trews for that too.
Incidentally, if this tradition is new to you, it dates back to the times when boats were launched off the beach. From a position above the high tide mark, the boats had to be dragged down into the sea, and that could not be done without getting wet to the waist. Having done the launching, the women would then carry their men folk on their backs to the boats.
Why? If you intend to spend 24 hours or longer fishing from an open boat in the middle of winter, long before the advent of waterproof clothing, you can’t start off soaked to the skin.
Ah, the good old days.
Once, a long,long,long time ago there was a land called Atlantis. The people of this land had been given knowledge by the gods…
Oops! That was a big mistake. The rest is history.
@ sarah
I actually strongly disagree that Scottish politics is boring at the moment. Because of what we see playing out I think it is a time of unique opportunity to develop a new and different initiative and approach to move Scotland forward.
Maybe it’s just because I am out and aboot in amongst many Scots trying to get by in business, work, and life, unlike the lucky ones who are comfortably off and able to ride out this storm, but in numerous conversations I am picking up massive frustration and disillusionment with the current load of mostly self-serving politicians. This is creating a huge vacuum with significant potential if it is harnessed and could unify many Scots.
Party politics has shown itself to be done. Past voting choices and turnouts show this is the case. Handing Party whipped politicians power and influence has clearly failed us, with the influence of the Establishment’s mainstream media aiding and abetting the State to continue steering us all on a trajectory many reject.
Hand the power back to the voice of the people by working to identify then electing genuine independent local candidates who will serve and vote as instructed by their constituents. If you go out and interact with many folks you can generally find or reach a consensus because the majority will inevitably want similar outcomes in terms of policy in the main big policy areas.
I am therefore somewhat miffed that many political activists and prominent voices are saying it is a slack time and that they are bored. If these folk are really so smart then why aren’t they recognising the public feeling and coming up with any suggestions to reel in and claim the political territory that this significant opportunity affords us. Our current form of democracy and society continues to be eroded and all it takes for this to happen is for good folk to choose to do nothing.
@John Main says:25 October, 2023 at 4:01 pm
Aye, I’m not so sure that Geri thought that one through before offering it up for our consideration. Anyhow I suppose that I’ll be marked as a Yoon enemy or an MI5 agent or something now, but whit ye gannae dae? Maybe that’s just a cross which has to be borne by those of us who cannot divorce ourselves from reason. The thing is, I might be persuaded to roll with independence but only if a comprehensive and (fairly accurately) costed plan was first offered up so that we could see exactly what we would be committing ourselves to. That’s all I ask. Am I being unreasonable?
Thanks TURABDIN @ 2.55 pm.
It is certainly worth reminding ourselves of the cultural riches of Pre-Reformation (ie Catholic) Scotland.
Regarding music I would highly recommend the book by D. JAMES ROSS entitled MUSICK FYNE: ROBERT CARTER AND THE ART OF MUSIC IN SIXTEENTH CENTURY SCOTLAND (The Mercat Press, Edinburgh, 1993).
In philosophy I would mention the two key figures John Duns Scotus (c. 1266–1308), and John Mair (1467-1550). Professor Alexander Broadie convincingly argues that John Duns Scotus was the posthumous influence in the framing of the Declaration of the Clergy 1310 and the Declaration of Arbroath 1320. John Mair was part of the Conciliar movement within the Catholic Church, aiming to counter-balance the absolutism of the Pope. Though he remained a Catholic, Mair (a colleague of Erasmus) influenced the constitutional views of reformers.
The rest of this post consists of some very illuminating extracts from the book by Professor Alexander Broadie entitled: THE SHADOW OF SCOTUS: PHILOSOPHY AND FAITH IN PRE-REFORMATION SCOTLAND (T&T Clark, Edinburgh,1995) —
“I believe him [JOHN DUNS SCOTUS (c. 1266–1308)] to be Scotland’s greatest philosopher, yet, as I have indicated, there are also other philosophers from Pre-Reformation Scotland, and very few know of their existence. I am speaking here of one of the best-kept secrets of Scottish culture.
“[…] One in particular whose existence we should at least note here is RICHARD SCOT (c. 1123–73), who is usually referred to, with French pronunciation, as Richard de St Victor, though his Latin name, which tells us rather more and is rarely mentioned, is Ricardus de Sancto Victore Scotus.
“[…] Intermediate in time between Richard Scot and Duns Scotus was their compatriot MICHAEL SCOT (died c. 1236), who was an important link in the chain of transmission of Aristotle’s works from the Muslim world, via Spain, to the Christian West. In addition, with the help of Spanish-Jewish colleagues Michael Scot made translations into Latin of Arabic commentaries, in particular those of Averroes, on Aristotle.
“[…] One thinker whose work has never received due attention is the twelfth-century abbot of Dryburgh, ADAM SCOT, many of whose writings are extant, even if not available in recent editions. His theological works contain philosophical insights which may have been expounded in classes which he conducted in Dryburgh Abbey.
“[…] Richard Scot spent his working life in Paris, and Michael Scot spent much of his in Toledo, Bologna, and as astrologer to the court of Frederick II of Sicily. Duns Scotus worked at the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, Paris and Cologne. There is a question as to why so many of Scotland’s earliest philosophers worked outside this country. A plausible explanation is simply that we did not at that time have any universities. Once the University of St Andrews was established, however, followed within the same century by the Universities of Glasgow and Aberdeen, the situation was transformed, and was transformed especially to the benefit of philosophy, though conventional wisdom would not have us believe this. I shall dwell on this last point.
“All agree that poets made a priceless contribution to our literary canon during the century or so following the founding of Scotland’s first university. The period is the age of the makars, the lowland poets, ROBERT HENRYSON, WILLIAM DUNBAR, GAVIN DOUGLAS, and others. In his ‘Lament for the Makaris’ Dunbar names many poets whose works are now lost. But in any case the extant poetical writings of the period are of sufficient quantity and quality to stamp the age with a distinctive character.
Historical judgment on this matter has been very unfair. I do not mean in the least—how could I?—to be stinting about the magnificence, the magisterial presence, of the poetry of that age when I say that the overwhelming emphasis which has been placed on the poetical achievements of the fifteenth—and early-sixteenth—century Scottish literary heritage promotes a distorted image of that heritage. I believe the poetical achievement to have been fully matched by the Scottish philosophers who were contemporaries of the poets, though the writings of the philosophers disappeared into near oblivion and are only now being rescued.
“[…] JOHN IRELAND (c. 1440–95) (Mirror of Wisdom), was one of a large number of Scots at the University of Paris. In the later 1470s that contingent was joined by JAMES LIDDELL (d. prob. after 1519) from Aberdeen. He graduated with a master’s degree in 1483, and in the following year began to teach at Paris. In 1495, the year of the founding of a university in his home town, he became the first-ever Scot to have a book of his printed in his own lifetime. Given my belief that the Scots are a nation of philosophers, I find it peculiarly appropriate that that first-ever book by a Scot printed in his own lifetime was a work on philosophy.
“[…] The topic of Liddell’s book was a popular one among Scottish philosophers, several of whom, in the generation after Liddell, wrote substantial treatises. The authors of those treatises were all members of the circle of JOHN MAIR. Born near Haddington c. 1467, Mair attended school in that town, the same school at which, a generation later, John Knox was a pupil. Mair was a student at the University of Paris, rising to become Professor of Theology there. He quickly acquired a Europe-wide reputation as a teacher, theologian, philosopher and logician. […] He was a colleague of Erasmus at Paris, and his lectures there were attended not only by Loyola and Vitoria as already mentioned, but also by Buchanan, Rabelais, Calvin and Vives. At St Andrews he was the theology tutor of John Knox, who was later to refer to Mair as ‘an oracle on matters of religion’. He also wrote more than forty books, all of them extant. We are speaking therefore of a thinker pre-eminent in his day.
“HUGH MACDIARMID coined the slogan ‘Back to Dunbar’ as a rallying cry, hoping to persuade us to look back beyond Burns and the Enlightenment to the works of William Dunbar and the other poets of the Pre-Reformation period. In the light of work done recently on John Mair and his circle, and with MacDiarmid’s slogan in mind, GEORGE DAVIE (G. E. Davie, The Crisis of the Democratic Intellect) has coined the slogan ‘Back to John Mair’ as a rallying cry, hoping to persuade us to look back beyond Hume and the Enlightenment to the works of Mair and his colleagues.”
A Scot Abroad @ 2:14 pm
“they’d make life far far worse for normal Scots”
Depends who you consider to be ‘normal’, a distinction especially important in a colonial society where the culturally assimilated native is ‘a manufactured being’ (Memmi), i.e. abnormal.
As some of the Yoons seem to be getting a bit sweary I’ll join in;
The Flying Iron of Doom;
Away and take a flying fcuk to yourself, if you don’t know by now how much better off we would be with independence you’re either a fcukwit or a shill. I’ts been fcuking pointed out often enough.
Same goes for Captain Mainwairing, Main and the JockAbroad.
@Dan says:25 October, 2023 at 5:15 pm
Hand the power back to the voice of the people by working to identify then electing genuine independent local candidates who will serve and vote as instructed by their constituents. If you go out and interact with many folks you can generally find or reach a consensus because the majority will inevitably want similar outcomes in terms of policy in the main big policy areas
Hmmm. I hae ma doots.
I am confident you could achieve a consensus within Buchan farmers, say, or East Kilbride benefits claimants. The trick is to go on to achieve a consensus between the groups. No doubt, the benefits claimants would grudgingly accept the necessity of supporting agriculture, but good luck with getting the farmers to accept the same view of the claimants.
Anyhoo, to summarise, I don’t think the politics game is nearly as simple as you perhaps believe.
And if you truly, in your heart of hearts, think that all that is necessary is what you write, why don’t you stand? That’s a serious question BTW.
At the risk of repeating myself, something that will unite farmers, claimants, Sovereign and New Scots is money.
Stand for election yourself on a “show us the money” ticket. You might be pleasantly surprised at your popularity if you can make it work.
@Alf Baird says:25 October, 2023 at 6:07 pm
the culturally assimilated native is ‘a manufactured being’ (Memmi), i.e. abnormal
Jeezo, Alf. You really should have paid more attention when you attended the “How To Win Hearts & Minds” module of your course.
So here’s a serious question. Can you provide some examples of unassimilated cultures, or in your (Memmi’s) words, countries of “authentic, normal” people?
Thanks to this site . Rev Stu (do find it difficult to use such an address) for allowing the variable comments.
It’s often informative and very useful to hear the Unionist (sic) supporters. Given enough rope they will hang all of us . That much is obvious. How their auto erotic rapture is to be prevented not realised is for most of us to figure out.
Alf Baird,
I won’t take you seriously on this nonsense colonialism bunt that you push until you firstly acknowledge that the Scots are the greatest colonisers in human history, for personal gain and fulfilment, and secondly until you stop endlessly quoting Albert Memmi, a French-Jewish-Italian scribbler so undistinguished and forlorn that Tunisia, the country he was living in didn’t want him and packed him off back to France.
And don’t bother with Fanon, either. Just as weak-minded as Memmi.
Sarah your idea to contact all our msp’s who voted to pass sturgeons grrb is very interesting and also aligns with what Dan is talking about, I agree with Dan rather than sit about and moan about nothing happening WE should be making things happen, I also asked Stuart through the comments section to give us an article or articles relating to SALVO and SSRG and to possibly give his opinion on the effectiveness of said organisations, there has been no response, whether that is down to his opinion that it is a waste of time or he doesn’t think it would have any success I don’t know
I must admit I become increasingly angry that our politicians have and are still ignoring Scots sovereignty and our COR, not only are they ignoring them certain persons who have influence within the independence movement are deliberately shunning the organisations and individuals who have attempted to highlight and educate people to the truth of Scots sovereignty
I find it incredible and unbelievable that ALBA can BEG and plead for months to the fake snp independence party for unity and be derided and rebuffed YET they according to the certain individual DO NOT consider SALVO , SSRG , Liberation.Scot worthy of the same invitation, party alliances and loyalties are why we are in the situation we are in, UNLESS people put country and future generations at the HEART of independence instead of party or celebrity we will go nowhere
@John says:25 October, 2023 at 6:31 pm
It’s often informative and very useful to hear the Unionist (sic) supporters. Given enough rope they will hang all of us
As has been pointed out often enough, just to post a “but fit aboot …” response is enough to get the Unionist label firmly attached.
But neffer mind. You can spend some time considering all the posters who never tire of telling us that the SNP is, and has been for many years, a thoroughly Unionist government inaction and deed, if not in speech and propaganda.
Once you have assimilated that world view, you can progress to consider who has been voting for them all that time, and who has therefore being stringing the noose with which to hang us all.
Mind and report back your conclusions. Maybes speed things up by taking a wee keek in your mirror.
@ John Main
That’s pretty much the difference between you and I. You are nearly always trying to find an angle to stop a unity of outlook forming. That you immediately responded to my post to critique it highlighting its flaws rather than recognising any positives to build on says it all.
If you are so politically smart then why haven’t you considered the reasons why I wouldn’t stand, instead of just quickly blurting out a response without considering what may have already been done unaware to you.
If you really are alert you should have picked up the reasons already as I’ve pretty much explained and eluded to them several times if you actually read and take on board what I’ve said. But I guess you could easily have missed them as you have a tendency to focus on aspects you can quickly leverage as divisive for your own ends rather than the overall content and merits of my posts.
I’ve spent plenty of time engaging with you in the past to the point there has pretty much been a consensus reached (eg. Full EU membership compromising to single market access), only for you to later completely about turn on that previous discussion. You are just an antagonistic disingenuous character driven for whatever reasons to cause division.
“By way of deceit “ is the motto of a protagonist
Scottish Independence supporters want independence because they believe it’s what is best for Scotland things are not so clear cut with Unionists some believe it’s what’s best for Scotland and other believe it’s what’s best for England.
That makes debating with a Unionist tricky.
I suppose the reason Lord Naw-Naw keeps emphasising that he is a Scot is to fool you into thinking his interests lie with Scotland and not England.
I haven’t looked back to see if I got an answer from Lord Naw-Naw to last nights question:
‘What are the financial gains for England of having Scotland in their Union’
Yes I am asking Unionists to ‘show us the money’ I have asked many times before as did many others but there has been no reply.
James, @ 6:17pm,
This business about Scotland being richer if independent may have been pushed about endlessly by credulous fools, but no matter how many times it’s uttered, it’s still utter mince and intelligent people know that. It contains a whole basket load of questionable assumptions, and requires that whole swathes of the Scottish economy (for example, oil, gas, agriculture, fishing, wind and landholdings) are fully nationalised. Which they aren’t. One sector – oil and gas – is totally dependent on world pricing, and there are many global sources easier to extract than from 2 miles down and 100 miles offshore in the North Sea, so what is left has a lifespan of at the most two decades before its uneconomic.
@ Nu English
The aspects you mention needn’t have to be nationalised.
“But back to resources, and you again try to focus and divert onto the question of asset and resource ownership, ignoring that my proffered example makes no suggestion of altering the ownership status of these assets and resources, instead the change of Scotland returning to self-governance would mean that the revenue streams generated by licensing and taxation of these assets and resources in Scottish jurisdictional areas would be diverted to a Scottish Treasury, to be used and distributed across Scottish society made up of 5.4 million folk, rather than them flowing into the UK Treasury which serves 67 million folk.”
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775057
@ Dan at 5.15 and twathater at 6.48: To precis your comments, people are fed up with our politicians and our political system. We should not be sitting around doing nothing about this – we need it to be harnessed by non-political groups.
Agreed.
Look how much support there was garnered pre-computers in the 1950s and 1980s for a Scottish Convention and Parliament. It was all done by public meetings and manuscript signatures being gathered. I think in the 1950’s they got 2 million signatures [someone correct me if that is wrong].
Yet with social media we are struggling to get 100,000 signatures for Liberation.scot [of course there is state interference hampering the campaign]. Salvo are now collecting signatures manually when possible. This is something that most of us could help with.
This is the Rev’s site and he has done a brilliant job for us for years at much cost – remember the Met Police taking his computers? He has given a platform to the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group and many others. Perhaps he is waiting for the right moment to launch a salvo…
If people in Scotland are so interested in ‘the money’ and being shown the money would the same not apply to people in England?
Why then would the people in England want to keep an economic basket case of a country that needs to subsidised be in their Union?
Why all the ‘love bombs’ from England and why are their politicians fighting with every fibre of their being to keep Scotland in their Union?
Come on now Unionists ‘Show me the money’
As gas is mentioned in that linked to post I will point out that at this time 50% of GB grid power is being generated by burning gas in combined cycle gas turbine power stations situated in England.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
And 50% of UK domestic gas production is from fields in Scottish geographic areas. Scotland has 10% of UK population share so clearly we are supplying more of our share of gas to England.
https://data.nationalgas.com/gas-flows/latest
Alert readers will note the large proportion of gas flowing into Easington Langeled which is a connection to Norway. So both Scotland and Norway are keeping the gas supplies England requires.
Scotland is also exporting leccy to England at this time. 1.2GW so not a huge amount at the moment but remember as just pointed out that some of England’s leccy demand is also being generated by burning Scottish gas.
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
The economic arguments for Scotland to remain in this kingdom have never stood up to honest forensic analysis. Never. Rhetoric and sophism long the shelter of deceit.
As a son of Empire and with grandads that fought and survived WWI and WWII , I consider myself a lucky bastard * . A symptom of the moral decay knawing at the heart of the cuntry.
*by nature , not birth as my mother taught me the difference.
Those large oil and gas supplies in Scottish geographic ares may be quite useful to Scotland, not sure how England will be able to afford to buy in supplies from elsewhere on the global market with it’s weaker currency and resultant loss of buying power.
But fuck it, lets here Nu English demolish successful international global investor Jim Rogers knowledge on global fiscal and trade matters.
2 mins of flustering red dress action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY2W_Okl9lE
I’ve just seen the perfect example of how rotten our political system is. Emma Roddick MSP is a Minister in the Scottish government – for Equalities. She is 25 years old.
M/s Roddick is only an MSP because of the SNP’s unlawful procedure for selection of Holyrood list candidates. She got about 2% of the members votes but self-identified as disabled on the grounds of having Borderline Personality Disorder. This “qualified” her to rise above other candidates who received around 40% of the vote.
BPD is probably very good grounds for NOT being a politician but hey this is the NuSNP we are talking about.
Don’t forget that M/s Roddick is the one who said that giving “trans people” rights did not detract from the rights of women and children.
This woman should not be in charge of anything let alone be a Government minister.
@Dan says:25 October, 2023 at 7:23 pm
the revenue streams generated by licensing and taxation of these assets and resources in Scottish jurisdictional areas would be diverted to a Scottish Treasury, to be used and distributed across Scottish society made up of 5.4 million folk, rather than them flowing into the UK Treasury which serves 67 million folk
Nice one. So we will all be rich.
Any chance you can put numbers on these revenue streams?
Then we can compare these numbers with some other numbers:
Scotland’s share of the UK national debt,
Our share of the EU divorce bill, continuing until the 2050’s,
How much we will need to set up our own military (so that we can protect all these lucrative revenue streams),
Vehicle licensing. UN costs. NATO percentage (2% of GDP, probably rising). EU market conformance. Migrant welfare costs. All that jazz.
And on the other side of the ledger, how much we will coin in by renting out Faslane and the rest for the rUK nuclear deterrent. Please say we will be doing that, and not just throwing away that great little earner.
Here’s what I suspect Dan. Tot it all up fairly and we will be little better off than we are now. Which is precisely why every time the answer morphs into “we will be so rich, but obviously it’s impossible to predict how rich – just have faith”.
So we don’t see eye-to-eye, that’s clear. But I still only have 1 vote. You still need another 2.5 to 3 million, so focus your answers on them.
And while I am ranting, I have just received an email from Believe in Scotland which informs me:
“Believe in Scotland, as THE [my caps] national grassroots campaign for Scottish independence…”
Really? Having “affiliated” groups from the Yes movement doesn’t make BiS THE national grassroots campaign. It is a slick operation though and has some worthy affiliates.
The Rev wrote a piece recently about BiS’s finances, following the call for paper money donations only at their event in September.
What kind of detail are you looking for? The plan for iScotland will be pretty similar to the plan for any other independent country. It will probably be pretty similar to what we have now except we will be a democratic country and not a colony.
What kinda plan does the RUK have when Scotland becomes independent?
I’m asking you right back to show me the fucking plan for the RUK.
It’s important to know your fuckin’ plan because you might just be trying to con me into remain in the UK just for the sake of England.
John Main there, all the time in the world to post and whine but not a moment spare to come up with any viable suggestions to assist Scotland, or find anything relevant to answer his moans.
Trident Faslane / Debt / Resource share. Do I have to do and find everything for you ya lazy grumpy bastard.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-widowmaker/
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh 6.05pm: your account of the cultural riches of Pre-Reformation Scotland is fascinating. Thank you for posting this amidst the current mish-mash of forgettable comments. How rich our education would have been had it included these poets and philosophers.
Just as Dan at 5.15pm points out that this is a “time of unique opportunity… to move Scotland forward”, maybe it is also time to liven up our education system with these cultural gems. MacDiarmid knew it and ten years ago his followers were enthusiastic about our literary heritage. But it’s been swamped, some would say sabotaged.
It would be so good to steer out of the doldrums. Being reminded that independence embraces more than just politics and economics is certainly helpful. We have so much that’s worth celebrating and our young folk deserve to be taught this.
@ Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
OT I fear, for which I apologise, I’ve been told on a few occasions that the “natural” Christian religion of the Highlander was Episcopalean. I’d love to hear your own, more informed thoughts on this. Or even any literature I could seek out at our local library to gain more info.
@ Sarah at 7.58
I also received that e-mail from BfS/BiS and had the same reaction as you. They’ve been appointing themselves “the” campaign for a while, with no consultation that I can see, and I’m not impressed by some of the members of their “newly-elected steering group” – though there are others who are ok (in my opinion, of course).
No doubt someone, here or elsewhere, will suggest setting up an alternative if we don’t like their presumption, but Now Scotland tried that and doesn’t appear to have got very far. Being a front for NuSNP obviously helps (for now)!
@Dan says:25 October, 2023 at 8:36 pm
ya lazy grumpy bastard
Much as I enjoy your insults, Dan, you need to be mindful of the affect you are having on the tens of thousands of silent, anonymous, alert readers on here.
They might assume that your fallback position of hurling insults is a result of your threadbare arguments, and not the good-humoured, knock-about banter that we in the know recognise it to be.
Anyhoo, re your most recent posts:
“Scotland’s wind power” being exported to England. Would that be from the renewable infrastructure paid for by the levies on every UK leccie user? If so, mind and reduce your figures by 90% approx, as 90% of the levies have been raised (and continue to be raised) in rUK.
“England’s weaker currency”. Would that be the same currency iScotland will be using in those crucial first few years? While our elected politicians pursue their manifest destiny of handing us over to Brussels rule? Uh-oh. Regarding trade between rUK and iScotland, until we get the Euro, we will be using the Pound, so things will balance out. We will have a weaker currency too. Capiche?
@Sven 8:55pm
O/T I am afraid you are way off the mark. In Scotland the 3rd Church in Scotland in terms of members, is Episcopalian. As an Anglicised Church sometimes disparingly and unfairly called an English Kirk.(Because there Scottish members are in the majority) In the Highlands its predominantly Church of Scotland first and the Free Church of Scotland. Although the original Free Church of Scotland has splintered into the we frees and the we we frees. See Kate Forbes. When King Charles at his Coronation gave fealty to Scottish Sovereignty he also declared the Church of Scotland as the established Church. Links: A lifetime of working in the Highlands.
OT as it all is.
Genuine query to any Alba members. I have joined the party and am being asked to vote for various positions. Would appreciate any recommendations.
Apart from the Scotland Supporters club for football I have eschewed membership for clubs, though I must admit I joined the SNP in 2013 when I thought they might have had something.
Otherwise I have always considered civilian political groups as a delusional front of western democracy. Where people think they make decisions.
That said. Any recommendations for Alba puppets/ representatives ?
Ruby, rUK’s plan for iScotland is probably very simple, and flexible:
1. It ain’t going to happen until at least 2035 because London won’t allow it.
2. If the Scots are so stupid as to try a UDI before 2035, then it’s the very hardest of borders (70% of Scots exports are to rUK) and no money going north. Collapse the Scots financial sector (8% of Scots GDP) by closing off Bank of England support. And reduce Scots internal revenues by taxing companies trading across the U.K. in London, not where they are trading.
@ crazycat at 9.12: re BiS presumption.
I suppose we should be used to it – calling themselves THE national grassroots campaign for independence is another example of self-identification. 🙂
A little bit OT but to add to the pre-Reformation information. Hector Boece, the first Principal of Aberdeen University (1500), great friend of Erasmus, wrote (in Latin) the first history of Scotland (it actually has lots of inaccuracies!) published in 1527. What is not so well know is that he included a natural history of Scotland which is notable for his description of salmon spawning, the first ever. Equally noteworthy is that Boece’ work was translated into Scots by John Bellenden in 1536.Just delightful(better than the doleful Timor mortis conturbat me!)
Bellenden
Under Buchquhane lyis Mar ; ane plentuus region in store of besstiall,lx milis in lenth and breid, fra the Almane seis to Badyenoch.
In it is the ciete of Abirdene, the bischoppis seit ; with generall Universite, flurising in all science ; and wes foundit, be the nobill Bischop William Elphinstoun, with ane riche and magnificent college. This ciete lyis betwix two riche rivers, Done and Dee; in quhilkis armair fouth of salmond, than in ony part of Albioun.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/now-the-traffic-lights-change/comment-page-2/#comment-2798525
Got you!
The RUK would be up shit creek without Scotland.
Want to be shown the money you’ll need to focus on Scotland and the RUK’s desperation to hang on to Scotland
We are not cruel people and in the event of Scottish Independence we would be happy to show the RUK some money in the form of foreign aid.
It doesn’t sound as if they love us very much.
Good-bye Lord Naw-Naw I can’t see the point in continuing to converse with you any more.
I did give you a chance only to discover you are yet another cunt!
John Main @ 6:30 pm
“How To Win Hearts & Minds”
Good to see you back on duty, your manufactured ‘country’ needs you.
@ Margaret Eleftheriou: that was a refreshing step away from politics! It made me go to look for more on Hector Boece and I find that he was born in Dundee so he’s a real Scot which may explain his interest in the spawning of salmon.
ASA. More total walloping garbage!
So you think you’ll get all your imports and energy from elsewhere when your assets are next to zero?
Financial markets can move anywhere, as has been proven by brexshit.
Westminster can’t control its national debt without serious reconstruction of its model, which the tories will never do because the establishment couldn’t rape the taxpayer any longer. And without Scotlands resources that is a black hole it is never going to fill.
Dream on ya clown.
Dan;
SOOOOO good to see you back!
These Yoons don’t like it up ’em!
Truth hurts etc… barry!
Anthem,
you have a very childlike understanding of finance and markets. Almost everything you say is 100% wrong: it gives me no pleasure to state this, but it is Scotland that would be in mortal economic peril, not rUK, in the event of some form of un-negotiated UDI.
rUK has around 25 times the level of financial and trade assets than Scotland by itself does. There wouldn’t be a material change in terms of non U.K. imports or exports to rUK. Scotland meanwhile exports the majority of its goods via rUK: 70% for consumption in rUK, 10% in transit to Europe. Scotland hasn’t got the port facilities to change that overnight.
Financial markets can move, but post-Brexit, haven’t moved, and Scotland is less than 1/40th of the City of London, so things are unlikely to change. At the moment, every single Scottish financial institution uses the Bank of England as a lender of last resort. That could change overnight if support is withdrawn. Those institutions would be forced out of Scotland in a day, as there’d be a run on them as people tried to get their money out.
Scotland has very illiquid resources: the energy sector is finishing with oil and gas in 20 years, Scotland’s wind, hydro and solar aren’t any better than anyone else’s, expensive and effectively unexportable over more than 1,000 miles. After that, Scotland is down to fishing and begging. Scotland is on the arse end of north west Europe, and doesn’t really have anything anybody really wants.
SVEN @ 8.55 pm writes: “I’ve been told on a few occasions that the ‘natural’ Christian religion of the Highlander was Episcopalian. I’d love to hear your own, more informed thoughts on this.”
—————————
To adequately answer your question you need someone more informed than I am, I’m afraid. And a glance doesn’t reveal much history on their own website. But I will at least venture something. The word “episcopal” relates of course to the word “bishop” (Greek: ‘episkopos’, Gaelic: ‘easbaig’). On the odd occasion that I have met incumbents of the Scottish Episcopal Church they have been very assertive of their church’s Scottish roots. They are part of the Anglican Communion, though I am not clear what that means in terms of hierarchical authority, and whether the monarch is head of the Church as he/she is of the Church of England. Regarding the latter, the royal.uk website yields (on the page entitled ‘The Queen, the Church and other faiths’) the interesting info:
“The Sovereign holds the title ‘Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England’. On the advice of the Prime Minister The Queen appoints Archbishops, Bishops and Deans of the Church of England, who then swear an oath of allegiance and pay homage to Her Majesty. Church of England deacons and parish priests also swear an oath of allegiance to the Sovereign.”
Whether the foregoing is also true regarding The Scottish Episcopal Church, I know not, but am certainly curious.
Further down the page we find, in marked contrast, the following regarding the Church of Scotland (the shift from “Queen” to “King” is per the page text and not an error of my own):
“The Church of Scotland is a Presbyterian church and recognises only Jesus Christ as ‘King and Head of the Church’. The King therefore does not hold the title ‘Supreme Governor’ of the Church of Scotland; when attending Church services in Scotland His Majesty does so as an ordinary member.”
“God speed the Republic!” say I.
Anyway, the following entry in ‘The Companion to Gaelic Scotland’ (Edited by Derick S. Thomson, Blackwell, 1983, page 70) is pertinent (though after 40 years since publication, and given recent significant demographic shifts, an update would be useful) —
“The Scottish Episcopal Church, a province of the Anglican Communion, is an indigenous denomination. In the Gaelic north-west its members are comparatively few, mostly to be found among the gentry, but it has remained strong among the people in north Argyll, especially in Appin and Glencoe.
“The Church of Scotland Reformed dates from 1560, but there ensued 130 years of political and religious conflict, presbytery and episcopacy being dominant in turns (with presbyterian elements persisting under episcopacy). A potent factor in the conflict was the insistence of the Stewart kings on their ‘divine right’ of royal supremacy in Church and State, their preference for episcopacy best suiting their interests and their desire for Church conformity in all their realms.
“With the deposition of King James VII(II) and his royal house, the Church of Scotland, episcopal since 1662, was in its presbyterian form established by law as the national Church in 1690. The bishops refused allegiance to the new regime, and throughout the eighteenth century the Episcopal Church, being actively pro-Jacobite, was harassed by ‘penal laws’ until after the death of Prince Charles Edward in 1788. After 1690, however, many Episcopalian clergy, favoured by lairds and people, continued as parish ministers until they died, while the first Presbyterian ministers in the north-west met with strong local opposition.
“There are Gaelic versions of the Book of Common Prayer and the Scottish Communion Office. In the early 1970s the Episcopal Church Gaelic Society was formed. This body organizes occasional Gaelic services and has published ’An Aifrionn’, Norman Burns’s Gaelic version of the ‘alternative’ Eucharist Service (1970).”
Of interest to me is that the Gaelic translation of the ‘Book of Common Order’ of the Church of Scotland, John Knox’s alternative to the Anglican ‘Book of Common Prayer’ mentioned above, was the first ever book to be printed in Irish or Scottish. The translation (FOIRM NA N-URRNUIGHEADH) was made by John Carswell, Superintendent of Argyll and Bishop of the Isles. It was published in Edinburgh in 1567. Here is the Lord’s Prayer in Carswell’s version (with a bit of concentration still accessible for both Scots and Irish) —
“AR N-ATHAIR-NE atá ar neamh, go mbeandaighe th’ainm; go dtí do ríghe; go d?nta do thoil a dtalmhuin mar atá ar neamh; tabhair dhúinn aniu ar n-ar?n laitheamhail; agas maith dhúinn ar bfiacha, amhail mhaithmaoid-ne d?r bf?icheamhnuibh; agas n? l?ig a mbuaidhreadh sind, acht saor sind ó olc; óir is leat-sa an ríghe, an neart, agas an ghl?ir, tré bhioth s?or. B?odh amhluidh.”
Again, but avoiding problematic accents rendered as question marks in the above version:
“AR N-ATHAIR-NE atá ar neamh, go mbeandaighe th’ainm; go dtí do ríghe; go dénta do thoil a dtalmhuin mar atá ar neamh; tabhair dhúinn aniu ar n-arán laitheamhail; agas maith dhúinn ar bfiacha, amhail mhaithmaoid-ne dár bféicheamhnuibh; agas ná léig a mbuaidhreadh sind, acht saor sind ó olc; óir is leat-sa an ríghe, an neart, agas an ghlóir, tré bhioth síor. Bíodh amhluidh.”
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 01.21
First of all, thank you very much indeed for your time and trouble, it is much appreciated.
You’ve given me much there to look at in greater detail and it was indeed in an Episcopal Church in Comrie that I was able to participate in the “Kirkin’ o’ the Tartans” back in the 1980s.
A hearfelt thanks again for sharing this with me, I am obliged.
@Alf Baird says:25 October, 2023 at 10:36 pm
Good to see you back on duty, your manufactured ‘country’ needs you
Thanks Alf, it’s good to be back, as I see the quality and facts-based reality of the BTL discourse has not improved any in my absence.
IMHO, what you need to realise is that my very much unmanufactured (i.e. real) standard of living is at risk if the kinds of numpties that have saddled us with Yousaf are allowed to continue giving free reign to their stupidities. The numpties class contains not just the professionals, but the hordes of voters who have enabled their daftness over the years.
You cannot just continue to highlight the illegalities, incompetences, and sheer, crass lunacy of the current ScotGov whilst simultaneously claiming they will all morph into political and economic titans overnight, if we just get Indy.
Like probably a majority of Scots, I care little for the Ancient Guff, and I have little more than mild annoyance for the way the Redcoats treated my great, great, great, great grandparents. Although I understand, and can even write and spik a wee bittie Scots, I have no desire to be forced to use it all the time, on pain of losing my job.
So, “all” that you on the died-in-the-wool Indy side have to do is show me how my hard-earned standard of living will be maintained through the process that will make Scotland independent. I will compromise on that, even although I will probably have to endure the constant assertions that in actual fact, Indy will make me rich, if I just have enough faith.
So, once again, and for the final time on this thread:
Show us the money!
Show us the competence!
Over to you.
John Main @ 8:22 am
“IMHO, what you need to realise is that my very much unmanufactured (i.e. real) standard of living is at risk if the kinds of numpties that have saddled us with Yousaf are allowed to continue giving free reign to their stupidities.”
A paradox here, in line with postcolonial theory too, is that it is arguably the middle class national party remnants who helped put Yousaf and his gang where they are, and it is the very same wider middle class who are most in fear of independence – hence their inability and unwillingness to apply the only remedy for our condition.
There is little prospect of Yousaf or an SNP so lacking in courage ever liberating Scots, and the ‘pampered native bourgeoisie’ has little to fear so long as he bides in Bute Hoose.
Resident Britnat says
**the purpose of the unionists in Holyrood is that at reasonable portion of the people of Scotland elected them.**
No they didn’t. They’re sitting in the free seats.
Acting like wasps at a picnic voting everything down.
They serve no purpose other than to disrupt. We only need to look at GRR passing with all of its flaws to see it in action. Four fcking levels of shite that was *supposedly* rinsed through to end up with the clusterfck it’s turned out to be.
THREE Unionist parties in endless committees doing the sum total of fck all but cavorting with gay prostitutes. *We did it for you Beth*
Scotland needs her own government. Her own electoral system. Her own fcking decisions. ITS NORMAL. It’s also AGAINST Scots constitution. Scots are sovereign – we should NOT have a Westminster mini me parly on Scottish soil. It’s interference & against the claim of right when it is full of fecking wasps working AGAINST Scotland’s interests who are not even registered in this country.
They either register in Scotland & be held to account in Scotland, or fuck off.
Identity politics gives these roasters a free seat. UNELECTED Murdo has been there since it opened FFS!
You could perhaps have a look at the total meltdown Craig Murray and his Hamas friends are suffering. Great Scottish comedy.
Sorry to put a spanner in the works of the romance between ‘Chas’ and ‘Tommo’ up near the beginning of this page but here’s a wee bit of info for you two, and any other names that suddenly crop up demanding the same.
See, long long ago WOS warned us all that we’d get pure chancers surfacing pretending to be interested in indy as they demand every last detail of every policy etc. The reason for such demands is to deliberately bog indy supporters down in the minuty of every topic possible.
We were warned that these folk would ask such batshit-crazy questions based on the economic outlook etc for several years down the line when economists etc are lucky if they can forecast accurately more than a month ahead.
These clowns come on here thinking they look clever by spouting these demands. But their very choice to come on a pro-indy blog to ask for such information shows just how thick they are. Nobody on here has the information they are demanding, and they know it. Nobody even knows what form Scotland’s first post-indy government will take never mind accurately predict the economic outlook several years ahead.
If Yous want that sort of detail away and write to the Parties concerned. A referendum is a single issue vote, it’s not an election. It’s a single issue vote based on our right to self-determination.
Finally, to ‘Tommo’, go trawl through the extensive WOS archives and you will find all you need to know on all those topics you so cleverly rhymed off. You will even come across several articles all about twats like you appearing and demanding to know the impossible.
@Stoker says:26 October, 2023 at 12:54 pm
A referendum is a single issue vote
Naw.
Not when it’s a toofer. Settled SNP/Green policy is that a vote for Yes in the referendum is also a vote for EU membership. No ifs or buts.
Fits up Stoker, did that just slip your mind?
Anyhoo, let me summarise your lengthy post on a T-shirt:
Vote Yes & Just Have Faith
Howzat?
Run off 10,000, flog them and send me 10% of the take. Deal?
And one more pointer for ‘Tommo’, do you really think some indy supporter is going to engage you and waste their time researching all that info you demand? Someone who is a self-confessed unionist and doesn’t even live in Scotland? Are you actually thicker than you appear?
As stated previously, you will find all your concerns addressed in the WOS archives. If you want any more than that then i’ve heard the SNP have been producing “white papers” on various indy topics. They should be your first port of call, not a pro-indy media-monitoring blog. Happy trawling! LOL!
Main, NOTHING about the EU appears on ballot papers. If The Greens & SNP want to sell their idea with caveats then you take it up with them. The referendum ballot paper is a single issue question. You want to argue differently then show us your evidence. Let’s see you produce a ballot paper with membership of EU promised on it? No? Didn’t think so!
I too can play your boring nit-picking games. Show us your ballot paper evidence or go get a fuckin’ life instead of sitting on here 24/7 thinking you’re clever. Unless you can show us ballot-paper evidence that an indyref ballot is not a single issue question then consider this too much time spent on you already. Caveats or selling-points don’t appear on indyref ballot papers.
Now Yous see, folks, Main’s trademark ‘i’m clever’ streak has actually proved an earlier point. They know SNP/Green policy yet they’re on here demanding the answers instead of contacting the Parties responsible. His arrogance walked him right into that one.
And i’ll make a prediction, folks. I guarantee Main, or anyone else, will not produce any evidence showing more than a single issue question on an indyref ballot paper. Someone give me a shout if i’m proven wrong. And until they do provide that evidence i’ve said all i need to say. LOL! 😉
Here you go Stoker, read it and weep:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/independence-what-you-need-to-know/pages/european-union/
And to save you the angst of seeing your own blindspot blowing up in your face, I’ve done you the courtesy of a wee quote:
Following a vote for independence, Scotland would apply to re-join the European Union.
As I wrote earlier, it’s a toofer. Vote Yes for Indy, and get EU membership thrown in for free.
Some of us Sovereign Scots (maybes a majority) think rule from Brussels by Germany & France & the rest is no real Independence at all. But as you wrote, you’re done with this one.
Stroker
I did as you suggested to Tommo and did some extensive research. I must admit it was exhausting but I did find the answers that both Tommo and myself were looking for. It seems all will be done by MAGIC by the Government of the day, who ever they are.
What a relief-I will sleep soundly tonight.
I must be thick because I have never heard of the word ‘Yous’.
I wish I was clever as you.
Stoker
Nu English Main knows perfectly well that every country applying for EU membership MUST hold an EU referendum. It’s democratic, it requires CONSENT from the population.
He knows this because I’ve repeatedly told him to stop posting fake news. He persists only to annoy.
Aye, Wings had a great cure for these roasters on twitter – his famous list LOL!
The britnat roasters on here wouldn’t last two minutes if Stu was a regular contributor to the comments section. The same banal drivel over & over.
Have they the plans for the next Tory government over the next 50 yrs? I think we should demand to see their economic case..
Geri,
Scots aren’t sovereign. No more so than the people of Lambeth, or West Yorkshire, or Devon. You seem to be living 400 years in the past, and have failed to keep up with reality.
Given that, your entire argument fails.
I’m a Scot, but it’s nothing more than a descriptor of where in the U.K. I was born and grew up. I’m a citizen of the U.K. I could be equally proud of my region if I was from Hampshire or Cumberland or Liverpool. I’m from Scotland, but that’s really quite irrelevant to modern life.
If you aren’t here for Scottish Independence why are you polluting a pro indy website?
Wouldn’t your days be better spent elsewhere?
Geri,
this is a website about Scottish politics. It’s only some people who think that means that everybody writing a comment must be pro-Indy. At the moment, less than half of Scots are pro-Indy.
You are going to have to live with that.
“I’m from Scotland, but that’s really quite irrelevant to modern life”
Irrelevant to you and the kind of “modern” life you have, perhaps. Others have a completely different perspective and find the fact of being Scottish a fundamental part of their identity and very relevant to their day to day life. You are not necessarily the “norm”, but rather the exception.
“Scots aren’t sovereign”
Over China, Brazil and the moon they certainly are not, but over Scotland they are.
However, the exercise of that sovereignty has being deliberately denied to Scotland for the last 300 years because the people of Scotland have been represented overall by a myriad of weak, self-serving careerists, PR products, perverts, pervert apologists, women haters, betrayers, handmaidens, airheads and a wealth of corrupt and greedy individuals whose principles and ethics are constantly for sale to the highest bidder.
Scotland has representatives in name only. They are in reality acting as the gatekeepers of the union.
You have enough fingers in one hand to count the number of those who are currently acting as Scotland’s representatives rather than just pretending to.
After the best part of 9 years of the Scottish people sending absolute majorities of what we thought were anti-union MPs, the only reason why this UK union remains standing is because Scotland is treated as a colony by its own “representatives”.
They have done this by constantly denying us proper democracy while hiding, like the 2-faced cowards they are, behind either unacceptable ignorance or a fabricated “Westminster’s power” that only exists in practice because those representatives insist in handing unnecessary vetos to it while taking power away from the people of Scotland by the back door.
Scotland’s fake representatives have, for the last 9 years, abused our anti-union votes and democratic mandates to preserve the union instead. In any other professional situation this would have been treated as fraud and not allowed to continue. Yet, here we are expected to accept it as “the norm”.
They have done this by denying Scotland actual democracy, the right to self-determination and, above all, by systematically violating the Claim of Right and/or allowing it to be violated.
An example of this is their enabling the crown to exercise absolute rule over Scotland using an English court with English judges and applying English law convention which does not apply to Scotland, so they could continue denying the delivery of our democratic mandates after these betraying idiots run of of road to kick the indyref can down.
As another example of their systematic violation of the Claim of Right, those “representatives” have installed an unelected representative of the crown in the middle of the ScotGov cabinet.
By doing so, “Scotland’s” representatives, are willingly handing control of Scotland’s legislative body to the crown and are allowing that unelected representative to act as the crown’s veto tool to deny democracy to the Scottish people.
This is only happening because the cuckoos in the SNP nest, Sturgeon and Yousaf, have undemocratically installed that unelected crown representative in the cabinet, demonstrating they are democrats, nationalists and republicans in name only and demonstrating they are not Scotland’s representatives nor acting in the interests of Scotland at all.
But this assault on Scotland’s democratic rights and the Claim of Right only continues because the rest of the SNP and indeed Labour, Tories, Greens and Libdems MSPs and MPs, are allowing it to continue.
It seems that from their perspective, treating Scotland as a colony, denying Scotland democracy and denying the people of Scotland full control over their own effing legislative body is convenient to their cause of protecting the interests of the crown and the British state at the expense of Scotland’s interests, democratic rights, rights under international law. Even if doing so is a direct violation of the most important fundamental condition of the “precious” treaty of union they are so determined to preserve beyond the point the Scottish people want to preserve it.
The way the overwhelming majority of Scotland’s MPs and MSPs have acquiesced to this assault on democracy perpetrated by the crown through the hopeless Sturgeon, that individual sitting in the cabinet and now the continuity candidate Yousaf, demonstrate politics in Scotland is rotten to the core and it cannot therefore ever be the main route for Scotland to become independent. In fact, it demonstrates politics must be bypassed.
All over history there has always been a power struggle between the people and the crown. If the legislative body is controlled by the people, then the system is a democracy. But if it is controlled by the crown, then it is absolute rule. This is what we have now in Scotland.
Forcing absolute rule over Scotland is a violation of the Claim of Right and consequently, because respecting the Claim of Right is a fundamental condition of the Treaty of Union, such violation should have nullified that treaty of union one hundred times over.
Had any of those MPs and MSPs representing Scotland any intention of terminating this union, that treaty of union which has now more holes than a sieve, would have been declared null and void the minute the crown installed that representative in the cabinet to stop the people of Scotland getting into their effing parliament the bills they want.
I only remember Mr Kenny McKaskill and ALBA talking in the UK parliament about this disgraceful assault on Scotland’s democracy, of which Westminster is well aware of but has no intention to do anything about it.
By contrast, the amoebas in the SNP appear quite happy to allow a treaty whose most important fundamental condition continues to be violated repeatedly under their nose, by the cuckoos in their own nest, to continue. That is negligence of the highest order, a dereliction of duty and fundamental failure to protect Scotland’s interests and could be construed as betrayal.
I will continue to repeat this until the last breath leave my body or those who call themselves “Scotland’s representatives” get up their pampered and self-serving arses and do something about it, whatever comes sooner.
And by doing something about it I do not mean just waffling their way out with a collection of soundbites prepared by their expensive spads we pay for. I mean either officially ending that violated treaty or temporarily withdraw from WEstminster until the crown takes its paws out of our legislative body, so the referendum bill enters parliament and resumes the journey it should have started years ago, that unelected crown representative is ejected from the cabinet, and the crown office is removed from the jugular of our prosecution service to stop it transforming our courts into the crown tool to quash political dissent.
But we all know what is going to happen, don’t we? We will enter the next cycle of the UK pretend democracy. The useless SNP, labour, libdems, Tories and Greens will procrastinate, procrastinate and procrastinate some more (calculatedly) leaving things as they are until they are certain a overt unionist party wins the next election. Never mind if the turnout is below 50% because it was never about representative democracy. It was always about having an excuse, whatever this may be, to declare a unionist party “the winner”.
AT that point, the crown will no longer need a veto in the cabinet because it can be certain unionist parties will not bring to Holyrood a bill for an independence referendum. And voila! job done. The charade of the UK political system goes through the whole circle of deliberately stopping Scotland’s independence by systematically violating the Claim of Right in plain sight, hijacking the prosecution service and forcefully denying democracy at those points when there is an actual risk independence may be progressed. All the while, our useless representatives simply sit on their hands and let it continue.
That is the kind of “politics” Scotland has.
ASA this isn’t a political site. It’s a pro indy site. Do you see Stu promoting or writing lengthy articles about unionist shite? No, You don’t.
You are here to be a wasp. Buzzing around annoying the fck out of everyone hoping they’ll leave & cluttering the comments in glee that you think indy is dead. Nae luck. It hasn’t died since it’s inception.
I can’t think of anything more ball aching than posting on a Brit nat naw bags web site, all day, every day, talking banal pish. Don’t you have a charity to go pester? It’s poppy season. The unionists early chrimbo to wank over the military. Go spend some time helping out at a nursing home or something.
Scotland will be Independent. It will take the same route as the devolutionists took in the 70/80s. A convention. Sillars was right. Scotland should never, ever have agreed to Holyrood. It was a trap to stagnate & block indy & that’s exactly what’s happened. Let the yoons have it. I think it’ll be the wake up call that tubthumping unionists need. £600 million mitigation finishing. Right wing policies celebrated. No more *free* stuff. No more environmental safeguards of shite on beaches. No more pensions. No more *free* healthcare. Bring it on.
Na luck that indy is over, ya chancer. Indy is high in the polls. Young ppl are more international looking than they are being tied to an undemocratic, archaic monarchy & the little England mentality & restriction of working for Fcks all. Fcks sakes, they can’t even find a house to live in & raise a family & job security. You old barstewards fcked up their future with Brexshit. Do you seriously think they’ll be Unionists? Lol!!
Labour was a total clusterfck the last time they were in office & they will be again.
Salvo, liberation & a Scottish convention is our route. Now is the time as colonies are increasingly banished to the past along with the monarchy.
The conventions & various YES groups should never have been disbanded under Sturgeon.
I hope Stu takes up the treaty of Union. That is where the key is to unlock the fallacy Westminster has control over us. It doesn’t. The fact we’ve had various referendums before proves that. England also needs devoluion & its own parliament. We’d all like to see their GERE reports. It’s a red flag they don’t seem to think they need one but are in charge of everyone else’s. No one made them king makers & that needs exploring.
Geri,
I wish you a very long life, whatever age you may now be.
You won’t see Scottish independence in your lifetime.
“You won’t see Scottish independence in your lifetime”
For as long as we rely on turncoat politicians, the crown’s useful idiots in parliament, USA’s puppets, fake nationalists turned devolutionists, airhead “influencers”, bullshit waffling professionals, PR products, women haters, biology deniers, unelected SPADS’ ventriloquist dummies, opportunistic indywave-surfers looking to build a professional career out of deceiving voters, gravy train enthusiasts, perverts and perverts apologists passing as Scotland’s representatives to deliver it, then you are absolute right, we will never see it.
And that is why we need to bypass the entire lot.
Absolutely Mia..
Scotlands Independence should no longer be dependent & hitched to any politicians wagon.
It should remain completely separate from government as it used to be before Sturgeon used it as her personal agenda to retain power & stagnation.
The Independence campaign will continue under another route. With or without Holyrood. I can’t wait for yoons to *take back control* They’ll finally stop romancing over a bygone era they think ever existed. It was shite then & it’ll be forced to be shite again because the exact same straight jacket will persist – only £600 million mitigation lighter. A political party cannot have separate policies North & South of the border. Starmer has already told *Scottish Labour* they’ll do as they’re telt.
If they get into power they’ll bind Scotland up in debts like they did last time.