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Wings Over Scotland


To Save Your Time

Posted on September 26, 2024 by

Let us not be ungracious about the use of the term “leading figures” here.

But equally, let’s not waste too much attention.

The University Of Glasgow’s Centre For Public Policy yesterday put out a 56-page report discussing Scotland’s constitutional future.

It purports, reasonably enough, to address the glaring democratic weakness in the Unionist policy position regarding Scottish independence.

Because of course, the Union as it stands is NOT voluntary. Scotland is a prisoner – or as John Smith, the Speaker of the Commons, put it at the time of the Act Of Union: “We have catch’d Scotland and we will bind her fast”.

Regardless of whether or not a majority of its people are currently happy with their imprisonment, prisoners is still what they are. There are no officially-sanctioned means, other than by the grace of the UK government, by which they can extricate themselves from the Union should their desires shift in that direction.

(People may be happily – or at least tolerably happily – married, but feelings change over time and 42% of all UK marriages end in couples wishing to divorce, a situation recognised by the law providing a mechanism for those people to do so.)

And to cut a long story short, here’s the conclusion of the 56 pages:

Those two paragraphs are the entire substantive content of the document. The rest of the 56 pages are waffle and padding and a recap of the last 10 years. All it actually says is “There should be a mechanism, and it should resemble the Northern Irish one” – points that some of us have been making for most of that decade.

(To be absolutely fair to them, “The Centre for Public Policy today released a Post-It note” probably wouldn’t have garnered much press coverage.)

The paper does not elaborate, or even offer suggested options, on just what the “set of criteria” should be. Surprisingly, perhaps, it doesn’t express a view on whether – for example – the extended period of consistent Yes leads in 2020/21 would have been sufficient to trigger the mechanism.

And our previous reluctance to be ungracious notwithstanding, it must be noted that the authors are people of no political significance or influence whatever – sinecured quangocrats who needed something to do with their day, and they have no more say in the matter, or power, than you or we do.

A succession of the main UK party leaders (and Ed Davey) have made it abundantly and repeatedly clear that they have no intention of granting a second referendum in the foreseeable future under any circumstances.

Nor do they have any reason to change that stance. The refusal of democracy to Scotland post-2014 has not proven particularly electorally damaging to them for the last 10 years and there are no signs that it’s about to start doing so. The international community is not especially exercised by the issue, particularly as Scotland did have a vote on the matter in fairly recent history.

We welcome the subject being given exposure, and we don’t disagree with the paper’s findings. But it’s a dead end in terms of actually progressing independence, and since it would certainly set a higher barrier than 50%+1, the effect would be to make victory – by that route, at least – harder to achieve.

A 50%+1 vote in a plebiscitary election, on the other hand, would not GUARANTEE the compliance of the UK government or the meaningful support of the international community, but it would be an unmistakeable, undeniable, unspinnable assertion of the Scottish people’s will in a way that no collection of opinion polls ever could. It remains the only method that puts the matter entirely in Scotland’s hands.

So in the unlikely event that Sir Keir Starmer takes up the proposals, that’s all well and good. The existence or otherwise of such an agreement would not negate or reduce the force of the plebiscitary route. It would do no harm, other than perhaps giving the SNP a further excuse for inaction (although we should have learned by now that they don’t need excuses for that).

But it’s no cause for excitement, or even really a raised eyebrow. There’s nothing here we didn’t know. By all means give it a read if you’re bored, but it will alleviate neither your boredom nor Scotland’s democratic deficit. We’ve taken the bullet for you, and the three paragraphs we’ve quoted above are all you need to know.

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Hatey McHateface

“A 50%+1 vote in a plebiscitary election … would be an unmistakeable, undeniable, unspinnable assertion of the Scottish people’s will”

Precisely.

Which is why it remains unfathomably mystifying just why no group of concerned, committed pro-Indy Scots is organising to stand for election on that plebiscitary platform.

That’s all they need to do. Get together, start a party (The Plebiscite Party), get the word out, stand for election. WM, HR, both if they wish.

What exactly, in the name of all that’s holy, is the fucking problem?

Campbell Clansman

The latest YouGov poll on Indy shows 37% Yes, 47% No. When the “don’t knows” are factored out, No wins 56%-44%.
Same as 2014.
The latest Survation, More in Common, Norstat and Opinium polls all show that Yes would lose.
All that heated rhetoric about Scots being “imprisoned” doesn’t seem to be persuading people.

Garrion

Thanks for taking that bullet. Colour me shocked. Again.

Frank Gillougley

When the dust has now settled over the last ten years, I can’t help but get that very sinking feeling that being a Scot in the UK amounts to no more than being a Nova Scotian* in Canada.

* Also coincidentally known as ‘bluenoses’. There might just be something in that.

Andy Anderson

I agree 100% with this article Stu and your conclusion.
Words, more words is what this is. No mention on how to action this idea nor any mention on who would recognise and support this vague idea.
We have had years of words from the SNP and little action unless you wish to highlight a draft referendum bill that was put to the UK courts from comment. A court whose purpose is to support the Union. Why was that not an approved bill sanctioned by the Court of Session.
I have no faith at all that any political party with members in Holyrood or Westminster has the nouse, the assertiveness and ability to get us independence. They do not have a clue about our own laws and constitution. They abide by Englands laws only. Disgraceful.

Sven

Hatey McHateface @ 13.47.

The problem is the complete inability of Scots nationalists to agree to unite (or even just cease personal hostilities) for long enough to achieve such a joint effort as a new political party.
Get 3 of them in 1 room and you’ll get 4 “united” opinions on how to get the Party going.
Just think of the assorted personal insults and futile point scoring which continues on WOS btl comments irrespective of the original article between regular posters all of whom are allegedly united in the common goal of independence.
Or the way in which prohibited subjects or words are frequently dragged in by the cunning subterfuge of inserting dashes or hyphens.
Start a new Plebiscite Party with you, RoS & Geri all agreeing to unite in a common endeavour ? To quote Geri’s favourite punctuation point, lol.

Vivian O’Blivion

A second independence referendum will never be granted by the British state. Westminster is not in fact a democracy, it’s a Spookocracy.

Keir Starmer has been described by that levelheaded, one nation Tory, Peter Oborne as the “MI5 candidate”.

Starmer’s Chief of Staff, Sue Gray comes from solidly working class, Irish diaspora stock, having grown up in London. Financial restraints prevented her going to university, and she joined the Civil Service straight from school.

How did she end up joined at the hip to Keir Starmer? Well, she resigned from the Civil Service in 2023 to take up the position as his Chief of Staff while he was leader of the opposition. By exercising this highly unusual move, she was found to have broken the Civil Service code.

One curious note from Gray’s Wiki page; “Gray took a career break in the 1980s, a step described … as “strikingly unorthodox”.During this time, she ran the Cove Bar, a pub in Newry … during The Troubles, … Peter Caldwell, a former special adviser to several ministers, said it had been speculated Gray was a spy at this time, though Gray denied it.”.

The Cove Bar was a known Irish Republican haunt.

Clearly, Gray is Starmer’s Handler, not his “Chief of Staff”. All terribly redolent of Sturgeon’s visceral attachment to Liz Lloyd.

Geri

Its not in the UK governments remit to refuse.

James

“…recognised, legal and fair process to test,
where appropriate…”

Where appropriate are the key words there I think. And the Westminster Viceroy gets to decide.

“The international community is not especially exercised by the issue, particularly as Scotland did have a vote on the matter in fairly recent history”.

Yeah, even though that particular exercise would fail all tests of being a free and fair one; two (or was it 3) world record beating postal vote returns in one day. A foreign media 99.9% hostile to Scotland (proven fact by prof. Robertson), with the State Broadcaster even running a 5 minute ‘No’ propaganda piece nationally, every hour on the hour, all day long, no independent observers etc…
Oh and mustn’t forget a local government franchise used where everybody and his/her dog got a say; second home owners, students here temporarily, anyone from anywhere basically.

Just saying, like.

James

Oh, silly me, I almost forgot; ‘The Vow’… LOL

Alf Baird

If Scots are to receive the equivalent treatment of the Belfast Agreement implied by this report that should mean the franchise is similarly open only to ‘all persons born” in Scotland. But I don’t see this ‘condition’ in the Noon & Dugdale report. Which means the Scots are not being treated equally vis-a-vis N Ireland. We are not equal also re Brexit with people born in N Ireland able to hold EU citizenship via an Irish passport. Scots treated as second class again, and as the Rev implies, held captive. Scotland’s resources are clearly worth a great deal more to Westminster, a factor also ignored by Noon & Dugdale .

link to assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

Geri

Sven

We don’t need to agree on every single thing. Scotland is being asked if we should return to being an independent country or not.

Not whether we all agree on various subjects. That’d be for the people of Scotland to vote on post Indy.

I do get fed up with absolute roasters continually trying to add ad-ons like NATO, EU etc or they’ll throw their toys out of the pram. That’d be for an independent Scotland to decide. Its not what will be asked on the ballot paper.

Mia

But Scotland is not Northern Ireland. Scotland is one of the founder signatories of the Treaty of Union between the Kingdoms of Scotland and England.

Nothern Ireland was never a state. Scotland was an independent state until May 1707.

Nothern Ireland is a province that emerged as an entity after the rest of Ireland declared independence. Scotland is a country in itself and has been a country in itself for over many many centuries before the union. It has maintained its borders since May 1707 despite this union. The union was political, and did not include the transfer of territorial ownership between Scotland and England.

Because of this, Scotland is not seeking “to secede” from anything, as that document purports, to become independent. It does not need to.

Scotland can and should simply unilaterally terminate that treaty of union so the Kingdoms of Scotland and England can continue their separate paths. Legally, the only thing it needs to do so is a majority of Scotland’s MPs agreeing to end the union. That was what was required to start the union, therefore that is what is required to terminate it.

It is not a matter for “the UK”, for England’s representatives, for foreign-led “think tanks” or for anybody else’s security services to stick their nose in how the people of Scotland can organise its exit way. That is for Scotland, and Scotland only, to decide and choose.

Scotland does not need to negotiate with the “UK”. Scotland is as much the Uk as England is, therefore the idea that Scotland has to negotiate with itself is silly in itself. Without Scotland, there is no “UK”.

The partner Scotland has to negotiate the termination of the union, separation and division of assets is the Kingdom of England. And by negotiating termination of the union, I mean precisely that: how the termination is effected – ie dates, not IF termination can be done or how the people of Scotland should communicate their desire to effect that termination, or how valid it is considered by entities that are outwith Scotland and therefore have no business interfering. It is for nobody else, other than the people of Scotland, to decide.

Ireland never needed “a referendum” to communicate its desire to be independent and to become independent. The only thing they needed and used was a UK general election and then a bunch of MPs with a backbone to reconvene Ireland’s parliament.

Scotland is not the property of the Kingdom of England or “the UK”. Scotland is in a political union with the Kingdom of England, therefore the way out of this union is clear: to revoke the Treaty of Union ending that union.

The only thing we need is a mechanism to ditch the Scotland Act and restore the powers of Scotland’s parliament.

That mechanism could be through a political party that stands on a manifesto to revoke the Scotland Act, restore the powers of the Scotland’s old parliament and revoke the Treaty of Union. For this, it is required that the representatives of that political party do not swear allegiance to any monarch. At the moment, it seems that the only party that resembles that mechanism is ISP.

The alternative is through a popular convention, like the Convention of the States was. Given Scotland’s popular sovereignty, such convention could, independently from UK structures, organise its own consultation with the purpose of overruling Holyrood as it stands, tied in the Scotland Act straight jacket and behaving like a puppet of Westminster and the crown, and Scotland’s MPs, who become useless to Scotland the minute they swear allegiance to a foreign monarch.

Holyrood and the parasites currently sitting there may feel they have to abide by the Scotland Act to preserve their own salaries and perks. But such convention will not have that problem.

It seems to me there is a massive and concerted effort from all elements of the establishment across the UK, to present Scotland’s independence as impossible. The British establishment, including that think tank outfit, seem determined in their minds to, somehow, demote Scotland to the status of a province like Northern Ireland or to a region like Catalonia is.

Scotland is none.

And why can this possibly be? It is obvious. It is because the establishment may fear the prospect that, because it is perfectly legitimate for Scotland to do and because it has every right to end “the united kingdom of great Britain” unilaterally, fed up of waiting for a fair referendum that never arrived, it may just choose to do so. And about time.

Forcing us to wait for a stupid referendum for 10 bloody years after we sent 3 absolute majorities of anti-union MPs to Westminster was abuse and a violation of Scotland’s right to self-determination.

But the abuse was not Westmintser’s. It was from the very Scotland MPs themselves who, elected to deliver independence and to stand up for Scotland, chose instead to stand against Scotland and to collude with elements of the British state to forcefully deny Scotland’s right to self-determination, so they could keep lining their pockets with salaries, secure pensions, access to subsidised bars and perks at the expense of the yes supporters they were supposed to represent.

It seems to me that the controllers of the British state, wherever those are, cannot possibly cope with the idea of losing all that perceived power and influence that the UN seat, Nato seat, embassies, treaties, trade deals, etc, etc, etc, give them.

But the reality is that none of those goodies belong just to England. They are common assets to both partners and therefore they should be treated as such and used for the negotiation of separation. So shame of those who call themselves “Scotland’s representatives” and have, for the last 10 years, pathetically surrendered any attempt to properly represent Scotland’s interests and instead happily capitulated to the pressure of the English establishment by helping them to portray Scotland as a province or region of the kingdom of England instead of what it is: its equal partner in a political union.

If a referendum is accepted by the majority of Scotland’s natives as the route to follow, then the franchise for that referendum will have to be tighten up in line with constitutional referendums across the other European states, including the UK’s franchise for the EU referendum.

Otherwise it will never be a referendum on self-determination. It will be just another joke at the Scots’ expense like 2014 was. It will be another assault on the Scotland’s natives’ right to self determination and yet another sly mechanism to purposely suppress their will by using migrants form everywhere else with no allegiance to Scotland and who, just like it happened in 2014, may just leave Scotland within a year after the referendum.

Scotland does not need “to secede” from anything. That is misinformation. It simply needs to terminate the union with England reverting both, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland to their former status of independent states.

It will be then for NI to decide if it wants to continue shackled to England and form the “United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland”, if it wishes to go solo, or if it wishes to unite with the rest of Ireland.

Robert McAllan

Vivian O’Blivion @2:30pm, Nae smoke wi’oot fire, o’ that we can be sure. Westminster and the establishment with the assistance of the ‘compromised’in Scotland will continue to conspire against us. We have all been warned!!

Young Lochinvar

From the John Smith Centre!

Hmmm..

Maybe with the SNP in a self imposed death spiral Westminster will suddenly say now is The Time and graciously grant another referendum now the odds would appear (to them) as being heavily stacked in their favour.

It would also mean keeping Branchform going even longer to maintain the nasty smell in everyone’s nostrils; final nail in the coffin and all that..

Xaracen

Great post, Mia.

The two kingdoms that negotiated the Treaty were equally sovereign when they did so in 1706. But by the time it came into effect in 1707, Scotland’s sovereignty had mysteriously vanished, while England’s had apparently expanded over Scotland.

How that came about is a real puzzle to us Scots because there was nothing at all in the Treaty they’d just negotiated, agreed, signed, and ratified that specified anything remotely resembling such an arrangement!

robertkknight

The Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland loves a precedent, and the Edinburgh Agreement (2012) is the precedent which has become a rod for our own backs.

The Edinburgh Agreement came about via an Oliver Twist-like approach to the Government at Westminster by the Government at Holyrood, with the former only agreeing to the process because…

*Yes was trailing in the polls
*The MSM were rabidly pro-Union
*HMQ could be called upon if needed (and was)
*West central Scotland Yoons could be emboldened by social club paramilitaries posing as marching bands being imported from Ulster to make the point that hard core Yoons didn’t intend going anywhere, let alone peacefully.
*Postal ballot returns could be ‘enhanced’ and pro-Union local authorities could be less than rigorous in their control of counts
*The pillar of democracy and Mother of Parliaments would be excused any external scrutiny as to the process being fair and meeting internationally recognised standards
*Spain would ensure any talk of future EU membership would be quashed
*NATO allies could be relied upon to pour cold water as/when required
*Westminster could pour scorn upon any hypothetical post-Yes negotiation, for example regarding Sterling, by simply refusing to engage

It’s a miracle that 52% of Scots voted Yes and only a 6% swing would’ve been sufficient to see those non-Scots who won the day for No being defeated.

Any talk of an alternative to the Edinburgh Agreement/IndyRef1 will be portrayed as being an attempt by the losing side to try to change the rules of the game, and in doing so acquire a means more favourable to their preferred outcome.

We shouldn’t be fretting over IndyRef2 – after IndyRef1 we should be running in the opposite direction!

Mia

“Clearly, Gray is Starmer’s Handler, not his “Chief of Staff”. All terribly redolent of Sturgeon’s visceral attachment to Liz Lloyd”

Wasn’t Gray also instrumental in bringing Johnson down?

Like or hate him, Johnson was the last popular leader among the tory party membership. I am of the opinion that it was bringing Johnson down what ultimately sealed the fate of the tory party in the GE. That is why so interesting that Gray appears to have been involved in both.

We all know that Starmer only won thanks to FPTP, because he relied on a meagre support and low turnout. Would he have been able to win if the tory leader was Johnson instead of the unpopular Sunak? Did the deep state need to put Sunak as leader to give Starmer the chance?

Who was instrumental in bringing Mr Salmond down? Who advised/encouraged him to resign in 2014 despite increasing support for independence from 23% in January 2013 to over 50% a week before the referendum and despite transforming the party from being a small one to become one of the biggest parties of the Uk in terms of membership?

Was that the reason why they made him resign?

It was Mr Salmond’s resignation what put the SNP on its path of irreversible controlled demolition under the betraying hand of Sturgeon (and her handler). It was her who suddenly transformed that party from being a vehicle of independence to becoming another useless party begging for devolution.

Was Lloyd instrumental in stopping Mr Salmond entering Westminster in 2017?

Was she instrumental in getting him to exit the SNP?

Was she instrumental in the destruction of his reputation?

Johnson had the party members’ backing. Truss did too, but only because Johnson could not be put forward as a candidate. She beat Sunak by over 20,000 votes. Sunak was the most unpopular of the three. He was parachuted to the post without a proper leadership election because they knew the members would not elect him.

Sturgeon, awful as she was, had the members’ backing. But the question remains: would she have been ever elected if Mr Salmond entered the leadership contest?

The election of Yousaf was beyond dubious and, just like for Sunak, Swinney didn’t even face a leadership contest, he was simply catapulted, by someone/something, to the post. His handlers could not even expose him to a leadership context against devolutionist Free-ports Forbes.

Both, Truss and Yousaf were terrible and had short tenures. Sunak and Swinney are even less popular and as if not even more useless. Yet, they were catapulted to the post by someone/something and forced on members they wanted them or not.

Do we see a pattern here? I think we do.

Both in the tory party and the SNP (and I dare say the labour party too), the dodgy leaders were elected only after their most popular leaders (Johnson, Salmond, Corbyn) were removed from the race by the hand of someone/something. That is why any claim the UK is a democracy is total bullshit.

Liz Lloyd was also involved in the campaign of Yousaf until Ms Regan spoke to the senior Civil Servant to bring this to his attention and note that doing so was a breach of the civil servants’ code.

Yet, Teflon Lloyd was never disciplined, never mind sacked. I find it very, very hard to believe that the most senior civil servant in Scotland was not aware of her doings.

Some claimed that Gray breached the civil servant’s code when she took the job as Starmer’s chief of staff. Yet, like teflon Lloyd, she was never disciplined.

What Sturgeon, Truss, Sunak, Yousaf and Swinney have in common is that they were absolutely useless to their respective countries as leaders. But they were/are good for whomever/whatever is controlling the British state.

It takes a particular kind of useless and spineless nationalist to get them to send Scotland’s stone of destiny to England, and to accept the raping of Scotland through free ports, or that outfit called “GB” Energy which symbolises the theft of Scotland’s energy. Swinney has proven to be so utterly useless and spineless that he could not even negotiate, despite all being Scotland’s energy, to put Scotland in the name of the outfit.

When you see things like the freeports and the theft of Scotland’s electricity, you start to wonder if Sturgeon, Yousaf, Swinney and Forbes are all MI5 candidates.

The question for me is who is controlling M15, MI6 and the deep state.
Is it the crown?
Is it the UK gov?
Is it controlling “itself”? if so how? or is it being controlled by the secret services of another state/s?

Who vets civil servants like Lloyd and Grey and who gets to decide that a particular civil servants will not be disciplined when they breach the civil service code?

Why weren’t they disciplined for breaching the code?
Was that because they were instructed to do so?
If so, by whom?

Lorna Campbell

It ought to be fairly simple thing to bring evidence that Scotland joined the Union as a con seating partner to an equal endeavour, not as a supplicant. Nothing whatsoever gives English prior authority to become top dog, nothing whatsoever.

It is not enough to say that the Treaty is ancient history because it is, legally, underpins the UK constitution. If it doesn’t, then there can be no Union. If there is no Union, there can be no UK. The implications are so massive that it is not difficult to understand why lies are told about the Treaty and the Union.

Treaties are, by their very nature, international legal entities, which means that no domestic legislation pertaining to the Union can supersede that Treaty or cause any of its Articles to be thrust aside or to fall into desuetude. The Acts of Union are not primary legislation, but secondary legislation, domestic legislation, and, as such, could never have overturned international law. They still cannot do so. If you are lied to and told that they can – and people have believed that, the Scots and the English people, it is not hard to comprehend why so many English people believe we were conquered. It is all lies and we are fools to believe them.

This is a matter in international law for Scotland to take to the ICJ, as a matter of urgency. The political sphere should be a united front for independence. It is not that England and the British State cannot be overcome, it is that too many Scots are collaborators and fearties, and the top of the SNP, the supposed party of independence, has been compromised and is acting in the interests of the British State and not in Scotland’s interests. That is the truth of it. So much of history, here and elsewhere, is simply a tissue of lies.

JockMcT

Sinecured quango rats….about right. Leaving our collective sovereign future in the hands of the Secretary of State is beyond absurdly ridiculous. Imagine wee murray sitting there rubbing his hands down his union jack suit with glee. It is not for him or his ilk to decide our future.

JockMcT

Mia, you are correct. They are not Scotland’s representatives, they are England’s representatives in Scotland. Useful colonised idiots. England never gets mentioned in the debate, it is as you say, not Scotland vs the UK, but Scotland vs England, and how long before they mention racism. England needs to find its own identity, its own resources and stop depending on colonising others, including Scotland. Grow a pair England, be a good neighbour and pay for what you take. Ultimately you will grow and learn and have a great potential to be a nation again, standing on your own two feet. You can do it. We can for sure, and will.

George

The Dug goes woof again.

Andy Ellis

No real nationalist could or should accept that self determination is in any way in the gift of Westminster, or subject to consent.

Constitutional fetters however ingeniously and loosely applied remain fetters.

The attempt by anti independence actors to “Ulsterise” the process of Scottish self determination should be rejected out of hand.

As you rightly say, 50% + 1 in a plebiscitary election might not be seen as authoritative and wouldn’t necessarily guarantee recognition of the result either by Westminster or the UN, but it would be very persuasive. It would also beg the question of whether the pro independence majority has the balls not to take “No” for an answer, and – as any self respecting nationalist movement ultimately must – takes rather than asks for its independence.

There are actually few precedents for a pro independence majority being stonewalled, but there are also relatively few examples.

The Faroese people voted for independence from Denmark in 1946, with 50.7% voting in favour. The Speaker of their Logting declared independence on 18th September 1946 whereupon the Danes dissolved the Logting and called fresh elections which were won by unionist parties. Negotiations after the new elections granted wide ranging home rule to the islands in 1948.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority Scottish unionists and British nationalists – particularly those like Dugdale – don’t really even want or expect to be able to deliver the same level of home rule for Scotland as the Faroese enjoy from Denmark.

Andy Anderson

Lorna 5.21
You are correct about it being easy to show the Union as a fraud. All you need to do is read the Salvo website. Then ideally join Salvo and sign the Liberation movement. Freedom coming with not a politician sight.
Several YouTube videos around as well.

twathater

Another great post by Mia followed by one of Xaracens,it appears that the John smith centre and their resident very highly paid MORON have been instructed to cobble together some pish to placate and quieten the current displeasure of independence supporters at the ongoing and forthcoming destruction of our social services by Labour eagerly supported by the Scum Nonce Party and their deviants

WM has been trying for decades to rewrite the COR and to get Scots to sign away their birthright, they are continuously working to undermine and destroy Scots SOVEREIGNTY , THIS is just another plan to chip away at our sovereignty by inferring that we NEED WM as england graceful permission to hold a referendum with ALL CONDITIONS being set by our colonisers, there are indeed many even on here who would gladly sign away their birthright because they are brit scots not Scot brits and unfortunately our political parties are staffed entirely by them apart from ISP

IF WM as engerland was SO POWERFUL why has EVERY PM since 2014 stated that “Now is not the time” instead of we will NEVER grant another independence referendum because by law we can do so , they CANNOT destroy or rip up the COR because THAT would destroy the TOU, THAT is why they want to AMEND it and to do so they NEED Scots to accept the amendments

As Stu has pointed out the MORON and her sidekick have NO AUTHORITY to propose ANYTHING and even if they did the conditions would be untenable, has Gordy Broon the tr@it or been seen in Glasgow Uni The Vow version 2

The ONLY thing stopping independence is political COWARDS and LIARS

Breeks

OT… but sobering. Bit dull, but stick with it.

link to youtube.com

You won’t see any of this on the news.#

It doesn’t mention Scotland, but I defy you “not” to think about Scotland in this mess.

Republicofscotland

“Legally, the only thing it needs to do so is a majority of Scotland’s MPs agreeing to end the union”

That will never happen the majority of MP’s from Scotland are careerist unionist troughers – who don’t give a toss about dissolving this illegal union – the same can be said for the MSPs at Holyrood.

Lorna Campbell

Andy: the information is no good to us sitting on the SALVO website. I’m not saying it’s their fault. It’s also no good asking people to read about it because, unless they are really committed, they simply won’t bother. What we need are people willing to set up meetings all over Scotland, using SALVO information, but also information and opinions of Scottish jurists, such as the late Professor Walker’s and Professor Campbell’s. Their deeply-researched and legally and constitutionally-valid opinions were published some time ago in the Journal of the Law Society of Scotland. It would be fair to say that it is a conservative (small ‘c’) magazine although it does publish some very erudite and liberal opinions.

Unionists will argue black is white, but the evidence is there, in our own constitutional documents, in the Treaty itself and in Hansard. People might take a while to absorb it all, even nationalists, but they will come to understand how they have been lied to for generations. If they still refuse to accept it, then there is little that can be done, except to ensure that all the information goes to the UN/ICJ and to every national newspaper and news outlet across the world as a first step before the political engagement.

One other thing which is very important, I think: when the Normans invaded England in 1066, they eventually spread throughout the British Isles and Ireland. In time, they led the Scottish wars of independence, the Irish wars of independence and the later Welsh uprisings. It may well be, that, in the years ahead, it will be the offspring of the English migrants and our own, together, who take us to independence. Just a thought.

And Spouse

So me n ma mate Tam are gonnae set up oor ain quango and publish oor ain dross.
I see that as no different to this. How much did that cost?

Alf Baird

Lorna Campbell @ 5:21 pm

“This is a matter in international law for Scotland to take to the ICJ, as a matter of urgency.”

Indeed so. It remains a great puzzle as to why SNP nationalist governments have never attempted to do this, especially given the many violations to the ToU. Scotland’s constitution and treaty arrangement with England is a pretty clear cut matter under international law. Once a treaty agreement is no longer in the signatory nation’s interest it is ended:

link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

Ruby Thursday

Because of course, the Union as it stands is NOT voluntary. Scotland is a prisoner – or as John Smith, the Speaker of the Commons, put it at the time of the Act Of Union: “We have catch’d Scotland and we will bind her fast”.

Are you saying:

Scotland is not just a colony it’s a penal colony!

Derek

“Regardless of whether or not a majority of its people are currently happy with their imprisonment, prisoners is still what they are.”

Sorry, this is just silly.

Are people who live in Motherwell all prisoners because there’s no mechanism for them to leave Scotland and become their own microstate? And the interests of the 30k people who live in Motherwell are far more aligned than those of the 5.5m scattered unevenly across the vast expanse of Scotland, so if anything they have more claim to be a defined people.

Geri

Mia

Great post.

The UK government has no authority over Scotland. Eejits from the ‘The University Of Glasgow’s Centre For Public Policy’ are trying to imply Scotland is subordinate to England & no higher in the pecking order than a provence ffs. What planet are these morons on? Dugdale still proving she has no brains.

We’re the other half of the UK. A sovereign nation & it gave hee-haw authority to the English. Studies like these should be treated with the contempt they deserve. A parasitic nation trying desperately to cling onto territory, vast waters & wealth that doesn’t belong to them.

If the English wanted to leave does anyone think Kezia & Co would come out with the pish that they couldn’t? They’d need a section 30 or permission from Scots? No, me neither.

This bullshit only tries to legitimise fake news. Made up bullshit that they shouldn’t have wasted their time on.

Willie

It’s dead simple really.

You don’t get a vote, you don’t get a say. I not you or your kind choose, that’s the ticket.

Against this background thee world has repeatedly shown that those who impose their rule, deny choice, deny democracy, very often end up with their brains blown out.

Democracy and choice is an essential mechanism for peace. Resisting an oppressor is an essential. Humanity denies reality if it does not recognise that.

Oppression builds hatred, societies then go head to head, both oppressor and oppressed then start killing each other, it all goes shitty, killing then stops, the toll is sad but the oppression stops, and an accommodation emerges. Europe, or should I say Germany was the post war example of that.

That cycle is as true today as it ever was. And on the big scale it certainly looks so with the Middle East and the proxy war against Russia. The UK took its empire by force. It lost it to by forces as India, Kenya, Cypress, Ireland and of course the US showed.

The West still thinks it is a latter day British Empire. The UK thinks Scotland like the ROI is part of its empire. Worse still the UK thinks it is a military power.

Sadly, we are now overdue for a bit of rumbl whereafter folks can lick their wounds and settle down.

And the Scots think they need a vote as we head to this impending hoedown. Ah well, who needs a vote.

Good article Rev setting out the reality of the world’s greatest democracy.

Hatey McHateface

@Sven says: 26 September, 2024 at 2:15 pm

Get 3 of them in 1 room and you’ll get 4 “united” opinions on how to get the Party going

Hard to believe it could be worse than that, Sven, but actually, it’s worse than that.

Because all the time the 3 in the room are arguing, they’ll be watching the door, in the hope that somebody will come in and announce that they are actually going to do something.

But no, when that fourth person comes in, she’s watching the door too, in the same state of helpless paralysis as the first three.

And so it goes on.

129 good and true Scots, one from each constituency in the land, are all that are required from our 5.5 million to stand on that plebiscitary platform at HR. Heck, just counting the usual suspects on here, we’ve probably already got 10.

And for those regular posters who are absolutely emphatically adamant of the unimpeachable rightness and righteousness of their opinions and the overwhelming support for their cause among ordinary Scots, being elected just has to be a stone cold certainty.

Right?

So as I wrote before:

What exactly, in the name of all that’s holy, is the fucking problem?

Michael Laing

@ Derek at 7.03pm: Your point is utterly fatuous. Motherwell isn’t a nation, is it? So why would the people of Motherwell want to leave Scotland? They are patently obviously Scottish. As for Scotland, it has been a nation since 843AD. It was an independent nation for hundreds of years before the UK existed.

Campbell Clansman

I encourage everyone who’s interested in the Indy movement to read the comments at WoS by the likes of “Mia”, “Geri,” “James Che”, the aptly-named “Confused,” and more.

They’ll soon realize that the cutting edge of the Indy movement is populated by a dozen tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorists (Humza is an MI5 agent?), historical illiterates, constitutional illiterates, actual illiterates, and Salvo moonh*wlers.

No wonder their actual support is so few that they dare not publish the number of people that voted for their self-styled “Liberation” committee. No wonder the Monster Raving Loony Party outpolls their ISP at elections.

Geri

Caveman Campbell

How do you know they don’t agree?

Why are you even here? You’re not an independence supporter so what’s it to you what a group of individuals are doing? Its nothing to do with you is it?

Can you name everyone in the Tory 1922 committee? How about the Tory dining club? Or let’s try the Tory EU research group? Can you give us details on who selected them for these special groups & who funds them? The Tories have more secret groups than the orange order ffs and receive hefty salaries from the public purse.

Why is there political parties within political parties within political parties in England? Shouldn’t you spend yer day on that instead of fretting yerself on what a private group of individuals are doing with their time. Have you donated in any way? Are you a member?

Big Jock

There should be only one way that Scotland gets a referendum. By returning a majority of MSPS in favour of independence.

This is the only definite way of determining what Scottish people want. Opinion polls are not elections. They are snapshots of opinion at a given time. Opinions are not valid in a legal sense. So I entirely refute any movve towards opinion poll democracy.

This is a very dangerous path to go down. An opinion poll may suggest yes would lose, despite electing a nationalist government. And that’s because it is a small sample, not quantifiable, not binding or democratic.

The SNPs failure to use their mandates, is a matter of regret. But that does not mean we then revert to opinion poll democracy.

We cannot bind our people to opinion poll democracy.

Geri

Mia 5:20

“Both in the tory party and the SNP (and I dare say the labour party too), the dodgy leaders were elected only after their most popular leaders (Johnson, Salmond, Corbyn) were removed from the race by the hand of someone/something. That is why any claim the UK is a democracy is total bullshit.”

We know who it is. Clue, they go off on an all expenses paid wee jolly the moment they become MPs. Its mandatory.

Its foreign interference as exposed by the Labour Files.

Johnson was jettisoned because he was a loose cannon & would blab the bit out loud he wasn’t supposed to, just like he’s doing on the international circuit at the moment telling everyone Western Hegemony is under threat LOL What a plank.

Scotland isn’t immune from those same lobby groups. They’ve tried desperately to try get a bit of their usual modus operandi introduced to Scotland (Denise + Neale deselected)

Yvonne Ridley wrote an excellent article about this a year or so ago & Police Scotland & The Fringe is even captured. They’re staunchly anti Scottish independence cause they need their UK puppet on the seat of the security council to continue acting like a tit on the world stage & ignore what their eyes & ears tell them.

McDuff

If England decided it wanted to leave the Union and rUK said no do we really believe it would take a blind bit of notice.
If Scots are prisoners England is the jailer.

Geri

Big Jock

Exactly. Opinion polls are easily manufactured & manipulated depending on who conducts them.

The ballot box is the only authority. Not something akin to playing Family Fortunes over the course of a period of time.’We asked 100 people..’

Why is it only in Scotland we find people trying to invent new ways to give Scots ‘democracy’?

We’ll just have what everyone else has, 50%+1 & ONLY ONCE, not best of a dozen.

That’s if we even have a ref. A sovereign nation can leave a union anytime it likes. Its other nations that will recognise us. Not a permission slip from our jailers that means absolutely zilch to anyone in the real world.

There is no benefit for Scotland in this union. None at all or yoons would be shouting about it from the roof tops on a daily basis. They don’t cause there isn’t any.

Campbell Clansman

I encourage people who are undecided about Indy to read the comments of “Geri.”

Whose scintillating intellectual responses to criticism are best summed up as “shut up!”

If sensible people read Geri’s long, rambling, repetitive, weird screeds (danger–they may be bored to death in the process, or break a rib bone laughing) they’ll never vote for Indy.

Geri

Could you not find a benefit either?

Thought not.

Mia

“Eejits from the ‘The University Of Glasgow’s Centre For Public Policy’ are trying to imply Scotland is subordinate to England & no higher in the pecking order than a provence ffs”

Of course they do. The British establishment they work for is desperate to ensure England remains as the “united kingdom” state after Scotland’s independence.

Right now, if Scotland unilaterally ends the treaty of union, England can only become the successor state with Scotland’s consent. Scotland has the exact same right as England to demand being the successor state.

Presenting Scotland as a region/portion that simply exits the UK, so the UK remains as the main entity, would avoid having to terminate the treaty, which is, in my view, what they are desperate to preserve at all costs.

In my view, this is the reason why they have been busy devising alternatives to revoking the treaty using some kind of fudge around their beloved “parliamentary sovereignty”. And here it is one of the attempts:

“Act of Union Bill [HL]
Private Members’ Bill (Starting in the House of Lords)
Originated in the House of Lords, Session 2017-19
Last updated: 9 October 2019 at 10:28

Long title
A Bill to provide a renewed constitutional form for the peoples of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, to continue to join together to form the United Kingdom, to affirm that the peoples of those nations and parts have chosen, subject to and in accordance with the provisions of this Act, to continue to pool their sovereignty for specified purposes, and to protect social and economic rights for citizens”

This bill is in its second reading, but it has not progressed since 2019. Thank goodness.

First of all, it is not a proper treaty, but rather an “Act of Union”, therefore domestic law. In my opinion it does not substitute the real treaty, it simply adds a domestic layer over it to hide it a bit more.

It seems to me that this “Act of Union” would aim to completely demote Scotland to the status of a province of England.

In this new “Act of Union”, the “union” is not between Scotland and England, but rather between, England, Scotland, NI and Wales. But England remains, of course, in full control of the UK parliament. So, if Scotland leaves, the “united kingdom” remains intact.

It actually purports to offer a mechanism to that effect. It offers a mechanism for Scotland to exit the UK through a referendum via domestic law (fully controlled by England as the UK and its crown, of course) without having to even touch the original treaty, because all negotiation of independence and who grants independence is this new “UK Parliament” through an Act of this Parliament. In other words, Scotland becomes a part of and subordinated to this new parliament.

Because the original treaty remains intact, I am not quite sure what happens with “Great Britain”. I guess is that the idea behind this is that the English crown continues to control the Scottish one. They will probably fudge all that too.

This Act of Union also purports to legitimise the Supreme Court, whose legitimacy under the Treaty of Union is quite dubious. This new Act gives this English court full supremacy over all other courts on Scotland, Wales and NI. I am of the opinion this remains to be a direct breach of the treaty of union.

When you look deeper, you realise that everything continues to be exactly as it is now, with England being given priority and control over everything, over every decision and over every other nation.

The only differences with now are that it provides:
a mechanism to demote Scotland to the status of a region of England, just like Wales and NI
a mechanism to devolve power to England but without losing control over the whole UK
a mechanism to reform/abolish the HoL
a mechanism to reduce the number of total MPs to a meagre 146, making the representation of NI, Wales and Scotland pretty much insignificant.
a mechanism to change the name of the Bank of England to the “Bank of the UK”.
and critically, a mechanism to change the name of the state. By the look of it, it may pass to be simply called “United Kingdom”.

It is interesting that this new “Act of Union” proposes that to start there must be an initiation referendum:

“53 Commencement principle
(1) The preceding Parts of this Act shall not come into force unless their commencement is approved in a referendum held in accordance with this Part (“the commencement referendum”) by all of the following—
(a) a majority consisting of at least 65% of the votes cast in the United
Kingdom as a whole; and
(b) a majority of the votes cast in England; and
(c) a majority of the votes cast in Scotland; and
(d) a majority of the votes cast in Wales; and
(e) a majority of the votes cast in Northern Ireland.
(2) In this section “votes” means valid votes. a referendum that is in domestic law, seeking to avoid having to resource to international law and ending that treaty”

Either the person who wrote this paragraph cannot count, does not have a clue about the populations of England, Scotland, NI and Wales, or thinks we are all thick and would not notice.

According to Google, for 2020 the population of the UK was
67,081,234. The population of England was 56,550,138

65% of 67,081,234 was 43,602,802.1

The population of Scotland+Wales+NI combined was 10,531,096

Even in the impossible event that the entire population of Scotland+Wales+NI voted for this thing, it would still be required that 33,071,706.1 of England also voted for it. That figure represents around 58.5% of England’s population.

In other words, England is given a veto over everybody else, just as it has now. Unless a 60% of England votes for it, it does not happen.

Is also interesting the content of section (2) above which says: “In this section “votes” means valid votes”.

Clearly, they are just ensuring that the inconvenient spoiled ballots do not get counted at all. Probably they do not get even counted as “turnout”.

There is another interesting thing for this “initiation” referendum: the franchise

Here it is, loud and clear:

“58 Franchise
(1) A person who would be entitled to vote in a general election held on the day of the referendum is entitled to vote in the referendum.
(2) No other person is entitled to vote in the referendum”

There you go, a restrictive franchise and not an open one like the indyref was where everybody who was for 5 min in Scotland was able to vote. What a bunch of “ethno-nativists” these Brits are, huh? Yet, I don’t see any of those pro-wide open franchise criticising them.

And what happens if a majority of the people in Scotland, Wales, NI or England vote against this Act? Nothing. Business continues as usual, because this Act was never designed to offer an exit for the present union where the treaty is exposed to be revoked. It only offers an exit to Scotland from this fake new “UK” that they appear to be planning.

The fact that it requires a referendum to start may explain why it has stalled since 2019. They still cannot guarantee at this point that Scotland would vote yes to this crap, even after Sturgeon took a chainsaw to the principles, reputation, competence and integrity of the SNP, even after she forcefed us all with the self-id gender woowoo crap an put rapists in female prisons, even after Yousaf enacted the hate crime bill and send the stone of destiny down south, even after the threat of the freeports and the plans of this new GB entity to devour our electricity while we are charged over the odds for it, etc.

However, this bill, or something similar to this but more elaborate, could explain why the political fraud Sturgeon, yousaf, Swinney or Forbes never were in any hurry to call a referendum, and forced us to wait and wait and wait despite knowing a S30 would never arrive.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Dugdale’s paper is based on this bill. Let’s remember this, published by the BBC on December 2016:
“Kezia Dugdale calls for ‘new Act of Union’
“Kezia Dugdale has called for a “new Act of Union” in a bid to “save the UK for generations to come”.

BLMac

The oppressor always makes it illegal for the oppressed to have legal methods of removing the oppression.

The sooner Scots realise and act on this the better.

Surely we could take a leaf out of Gandhi’s book?

twathater

If ANY of our elected parasites from ALL parties had any principles or integrity they would be shouting outrage that engerland doesn’t have a devolved parliament or a Barnett formula like the other parts of the fake uk

That they are ALL silent indicates to me that they are all collaborators working to oppress and subsume Scotland on behalf of their colonisers

Dunx

Alf Baird @6:52
No puzzle.
The ICJ is a UN court established to help resolve disputes between member states. Scotland is not a member state. The best we could hope for is to convince a member state or UN authorised body to ask the ICJ for an advisory opinion. There are about 30 independence movements in Europe alone. Have you never wondered why no cases on this subject have ever been heard by the ICJ (the Kosovo case was to clarify a point of law)?

Mac

I speculated at the time that Bojo was removed for not being compliant enough. His removal at the time made no other sense to me.

The only way you could get something as vile as Starmer ‘elected’ was to make the alternatives so bad that people really had no choice.

Even then the turnout tells the real story. No one voted ‘for’ Starmer it was voting anti-tory, anti-snp as they were so fucking bad we had no alternative.

Starmer is 100% the ‘covert operations’ candidate. (Calling them the intelligence services is a bit of a misnomer these days.)

The death of John Smith paving the way for Tony scumbag Blair is another very dubious event. I don’t think most people comprehend how involved these wankers are.

Honest decent people in politics are the exception not the rule. And they all become targets of them if they get anywhere near real power.

They are the secret police, the Stasi, for the people who really hold power in the UK. And Starmer is their man make no mistake. That is why he is such a dislikeable cunt. People can instinctively sense what a creepy fake he is as soon as he steps out of the shadows. Starmer means war. He always did. That is why he was placed into the slot.

Judging by the way the UK is acting my guess is there are real structural economic problems there that are being covered up. They are panicking. And they see war (with Ru$$ia) as their ‘way out’, So you know it is fucked up.

Personally I think the UK has been totally engulfed by this evil. Blair was pivotal in this regard. Same as the US. It is very sad to witness as the people in these countries are not bad. They are more victims. I feel like a complete stranger in my own country, in the west. None of this has anything to do with me or anyone I know. We are unwilling passengers.

Independence would not have protected us from it. Look at all the independent countries in Europe in its grip irrespective.

Breeks


Mac
Ignored
says:
27 September, 2024 at 7:20 am

Independence would not have protected us from it. Look at all the independent countries in Europe in its grip irrespective.

I mostly agreed with all you said until there Mac.

The UK and Europe’s disease is NeoLiberalism, and while not immune to its effect, the Norwegians have found a way to keep their industries thriving. I believe Scotland could have done likewise.

I stress “could” have… but not under the tre@cher0us dunce Sturgeon of course, nor any of the SNP imbeciles who apparently don’t know what their genitals look like, for that matter.

But under “proper”, mature and enlightened control, Scotland’s Independence could have been the very thing to save us, especially with the BRICS / EU friendly Scapa Flow bulk feight thing happening… (provided the US didn’t bomb or mine our waters).

In this parallel reality, Scotland would find itself in excellent fettle, well placed in a new and Multipolar world, and even allowed to make a strategic blunder now and then, as you’d have to expect for 300+ years hibernation and colonial exploitation.

Alf Baird

Mac @ 7:20 am

“We are unwilling passengers”

Yes, the colonized are merely ‘bystanders’ in their own land; a colonized people are ‘out of the game’ (Memmi).

The main task of the colonizer is ‘to make any prospect of liberation for the colonized seem impossible’.

Geri

Of course Sir Kid Starver is covert operations manager.
Corbyn was too much of a threat & had to be removed. He wouldn’t have gone along with this geno-cide in Palestine for a start. Or the warmongering hawks at the EU. Possibly even recognise Scotland had a legitimate mandate that couldn’t be ignored much longer.

So the *foreign* press absolutely slaughtered him, the plants within Labour defied him, mocked him, accused him of anti semitism & the geno-cidal maniacs took to the streets in *organised* protest calling for him to be beheaded & removed.

Foreign interests are running this shit show. Money talks & Westminster is awash with it in the form of unelected Lobbyists & a foreign owned media pushing scripts.

The crash is coming & teeny tiny UK will be hit first because they own absolutely nothing to fall back on & it won’t be able to print money any longer. Jettisoned back to the dark ages & austerity on stilts. No EU either to try weather the storm as a collective cause they’re going down too.
They’ve discovered, much to their arrogance, BRICS countries don’t need a single thing from them. Their sanctions backfired. Blowing up their cheap energy backfired. Antagonising a super power backfired. Stealing a countries reserves to give to its enemy has backfired. All it did was make them self sufficient & look for alternatives & they’ve found it. Necessity the mother of invention & all that..& they are so far advanced across all sectors that the West is losing its shit because it can’t compete. Too busy playing world police & drunk on its own self importance to see others were organising & getting their shit together.

America won’t survive in its current state. It imports way more than it exports & it can no longer print money cause no one wants to buy its debts. That’s what happens when you think you can just take another countries reserves. All the laughing hyenas can congratulate themselves.

Now Afghanistan wants to join BRICS lol! After 20 yrs of spending billions warring it achieved fck all.

The UN is threatening to disband. They’re not interested in the Pact for the Future lol which is basically to adopt the shiny new rules based order, according to the USA, & dump international law. Umm, that’s a negative.

So all it has left in its bag of tricks is nukes. It has to get its mitts on someone else’s resources & quick.

Winter is coming.

Hatey McHateface

@BLMac says: 27 September, 2024 at 1:35 am

The oppressor always makes it illegal for the oppressed to have legal methods of removing the oppression

Well, you look to be a Scot, from your name.

It’s not illegal for you, or any other Scot, to stand for office – either at WM or HR, or both.

It’s not illegal for you, or any other Scot, to campaign on a Plebiscitary Election platform – a majority vote for you will be treated by you as a mandate to end the Union.

It’s not illegal for you, or any other Scots, to band together to stand in every Scottish constituency on the same Plebiscitary Election platform – to get a majority of the seats in either WM or HR, or both.

It is entirely legal for you, and every other usual suspect, to come on here day after day, giving it the “poor us”, and “we’re victims” and “it’s not fair” and “we’re oppressed slaves of the colonialist regime”.

So yes, it’s entirely legal for you to spout utter shite.

Why you believe that hopeless, hand-wringing and wailing and gnashing of teeth over non-existent laws is going to inspire the majority of Scots to support Indy remains an ever enduring mystery.

The sooner Scots realise and act on this the better

Sure, what you really mean is, as soon as somebody else has done all the heavy lifting, you’ll clamber on the bandwagon.

If the support for Indy is there, the mechanism to demonstrate that support and get a majority vote in favour of Indy is there.

And it’s all legal, all day, every day.

Hatey McHateface

@ Geri says: 27 September, 2024 at 8:57 am

Winter is coming

I had to read your entire post to find a line that actually makes sense!

That’s good news for you, Geri. It proves there’s still a tiny bit of you in touch with reality.

Cling to that with all your strength and there’s still hope for you.

Effijy

Off topic but I’ve got to comment on the disaster that Labour are proving to be.
Anything should be better that the most corrupt U.K. government the Tories ever cobbled together but maybe not by much.

After seeing the gap between the U.K. rich and poor widen every year for 60 years Labours first move is to take money from our OAPs.
Money that would help stop many from becoming ill or dying with hypothermia.
Next they say they will end the nondom status for the rich based here but keeping their tax free money abroad. I like the sound of this but now Labour are having doubts and are now likely to let them keep their ill gotten gains or they might leave.
I say not paying your way go away and have restricted access to visiting the country.

Labour Foreign office Minister David Lammy, who called Trump many bad names including racist is meeting Mr Trump along with Sir Keir later today to improve trade relations should the US be dumb enough to put a sex predator and compulsive liar back in power.

Will they be wearing free £4,000 specs and £500 suits that they forgot to declare?

As Labour wishes to contribute to a Middle-East peace deal they continue to provide the planes and parts to Israel so that they can continue to kill and maim 100’s of thousands of innocents in Palestine and the Lebanon.

Just can’t wait for their budget to continue the 14 years of Tory cuts, increasing numbers living in poverty and deprivation.

As Labour takes over Holyrood we can see the new levelling up where our NHS can become equal with the worst NHS in the U.K. Labour controlled NHS Wales, and end to Seniors free bus travel, reintroduction of bridge tolls, the removal of free prescriptions and hospital travel
and no more free personal care. The Bedroom tax will be reintroduced to Scotland so that can further cripple the disabled as it does in England.

Go Jump off a pier Keir.

Vivian O’Blivion

I would be wary of propagating the line that “John Smith was the greatest Labour PM we never had”.

Smith’s widow, Elizabeth Smith née Bennett (The Baroness Smith of Gilmorehill) read Russian at the University of Glasgow and went on to work with Sir Fitzroy MacLean at the GB – USSR Association, before becoming a Director at Hakluyt. That would be notorious spy, Fitzroy MacLean and private intelligence firm Hakluyt set up and staffed by former officers of MI5 and MI6.

The couple’s life long friend Margaret “Meta” Ramsay was a contemporary of Elizabeth at the UoG and went on to be a senior MI6 officer specialising in Scandinavian and Finnish affairs. Ramsay sits in the House of Lords as a Labour peer.

Where did the interest in the University of Glasgow apparently shown by the British SIS originate?
The rather straightforward explanation may lie in the fact the University was one of the few to teach the Russian language. Beginning only a matter of months before the Russian Revolution, the University founded the Department of Russian Studies in 1917.
This in itself is unsurprising given the multitude of links between Scotland and Russia.

At the end of August the couple’s youngest daughter Catherine Smith was elevated to the post of Advocate General for Scotland (and life Peer to be confirmed). This being the position tasked with advising the UK Government on Scots law.
In truth, this has always been a political appointment and the office holders have not necessarily been top tier legal authorities to the same degree as is required to become Lord Advocate.

Catherine Smith dabbled in the covert intelligence world in her younger days, being involved with political influencing operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union.

The position of Advocate General may be substantially an honorific one, but the danger here is that Keir Starmer asks for advice on Scots law (say to do with the devolution settlement) and gets a bespoke answer from Smith. There would be little concern regarding this given that the opinion of the Lord Advocate would naturally blow any adverse advice from Smith out of the water, but could we trust Swinney to seek such an opinion?

Mia

“If the support for Indy is there, the mechanism to demonstrate that support and get a majority vote in favour of Indy is there”

Support for indy in 2015 was over 50%, as judged by the over 50% who voted for pro-independence parties on the GE2015.

We demonstrated that support with our vote, we got a majority of the vote on the May election 2015 and we got an absolute majority of anti-union MPs.

The expectation was that those anti-union MPs would get up their fat arses, reconvene the old Scotland’s parliament and revoke the treaty of union, rather than getting comfortable on the seats and proceeding to line their pockets and guts in the subsidised bars.

When we voted in 2016 and 2021 for a majority of pro-independence MSPs, we also expected them to get their arses in gear and progress independence. We expected them TO DELIVER our mandate for an independence referendum within that parliament, not to piss all over it and hand a veto to England MPs for free as they did.

When we voted in the EU referendum by 62% against Brexit, we expected that the parasites who claimed to represent us would actually represent us and issue an ultimatum to our Kingdom of England partner in this union: either the UK remains in the EU, or the union disbands and the kingdoms of England and Scotland go their separate ways.

Once again we were ignored.

So yes, the mechanism TO SHOW support for independence is there and we have used it successfully several times already. We should have only need to use it once. Yet, in the context of this union, we are expected to continue expressing that support over and over and over and over and over and over again and still nothing is done about it.

For as long as those who claim to represent us swear allegiance to a foreign crown and put the interests of that foreign crown ahead of the interests of Scotland, what we do not have and will never have, if we continue playing by the crooked rules of this game which is deliberately rigged against us, is a mechanism TO EFFECT and implement that desire for independence. In other words, we have been deliberately placed in a hamster’s wheel where we are expected to keep running but never get anywhere.

For the last 10 years we have been in a loop, demanding to show support for independence over and over and over again, but never allowed to progress it because we have been relying on parasites who have no interest whatsoever in progressing it: aka the gatekeepers of the union.

That is what each and every single political party in both Holyrood and Westminster have been to Scotland.

“And it’s all legal, all day, every day”

It is also considered “legal” in this UK context to continue to piss all over the people of Scotland’s democratic mandates, to piss all over our Claim of Right, despite being a fundamental condition of the ToU, and to breach, as many times as they wish, every single fundamental condition included in the ToU.

It is also “legal” in the UK context, to usurp our constitutional popular sovereignty and force on us the English only convention of “parliamentary sovereignty”. It is also “legal” in the UK context to completely ignore the ToU and force on us an English court “so called UK Supreme Court” which, somewhat, is allowed to tramp the rulings of our Supreme court in Scotland and even given England judges applying English law the power to put our own effing legislative body into a straight jacket.

It is also “legal” under this context of the UK and, despite pretending it is a democracy, to have an unelected representative of the crown sitting in the middle of what should have been a democratically elected government cabinet, policing our legislation, and then, against every principle of democracy, having that representative of a foreign crown stealing from the people of Scotland control over the legislative and executive powers and handing them to that crown as a way to stop legislation the crown does not like entering our own parliament.

The minute the people of Scotland sent 56 anti-union MPs to Westminster, when we issued a mandate for an independence referendum in 2016, and when we voted against brexit which put us on a collusion course with the path England chose, the UK union was put on notice, each and every time. That is the reality. Yet, those who claimed to represent us, decided to betray us, ignore it and allow the British state to continue business as usual.

If the people of Scotland demands an independence referendum, as we did in 2016 and every election until, and including 2021, then it means the UK union does no longer have the consent from Scotland to continue and Westminster does no longer have Scotland’s consent to operate on its behalf until that time that referendum takes place and the people of Scotland decide.

To ignore that and force Scotland to continue in this union and worse, abuse that time to force on us toxic legislation to rob our resources and control our territory, legislation we never asked for, actually point blank reject and is completely against our interests is, at all effects, imposing absolute rule on Scotland, a direct violation of the Claim of Right and an indirect violation of the ToU.

That should have been sufficient for those parasites claiming to represent Scotland both in Holyrood and Westminster to get up the seats and terminate the union on the basis that a fundamental condition was breached, therefore the ToU is null and void in line with the fundamental principle of pacta sunt servanda in international law.

Something being “legal” in the Uk in the constitutional context does not necessarily mean that it is legal under Scotland’s constitution or international law. Something being deemed “illegal” in the UK in that constitutional context does not necessarily mean it is illegal under Scotland’s own constitution or international law.

Scotland is not the property of the Kingdom of England or its crown. Scotland is a co-signatory of the Treaty of Union and has every legal right to unilaterally terminate it at any point of its choosing.

If that has not happened yet it is only because we have parasites pretending to represent us in both Holyrood and Westminster who, in reality, only are there to line their pockets and act as the useful idiots of the crown at the expense of the needs and wants of the people. Their only job appears to be the putting the interests of everybody else ahead of Scotland’s.

So, in the constitutional context, saying something is “legal” or “illegal” when applying the English-only convention of “parliamentary sovereignty”, is completely meaningless.

The union between the kingdoms of Scotland and England cannot be controlled by domestic law, which is what Westminster issues. It has to be controlled by international law, because both kingdoms were independent states when that treaty was signed, and Westminster is just a byproduct of that treaty and therefore it is not above Scotland or England. It can only rule on their behalf for as long as they give consent.

Scotland revoked that consent in 2015, 2016, 2016 again, 2017, 2019 and 2021. Yet, here we are. Stuck in the same hamster’s wheel.

Ruby Friday

Checking the various libraries & online libraries I keep coming across this book called ‘Rabbits’

It’s everywhere!

Val McDermid says it’s ‘Darkly funny as Saltburn, but with kilts’

Someone else says: (oops forgot to note the name)

Hugo Rifkind’s entertaining new novel offers another jaded look at the antics of the posh

I don’t know ‘Saltburn’ so not sure if this would be a book for me.

Not sure how interested I would be in what posh folk in Edinburgh get up to at school.

I’ve kinda had it with the sexual deviants (posh or not posh) they are causing me to have dreams/nightmares about ‘bagel rapes’.

When Val says ‘with kilts’ is she referring to the fact that all the posh girls have kilts as part of their school uniform.

Steven Lannigan

Historically where countries have separated/broken up there has been a huge support for the break up by the population.

In such cases it makes the referendum (or whatever mechanism) almost inconsequential because the outcome is a forgone conclusion (usually 70/30 or at the least in the high 60’s).

This is the key to any change – making the public so in favour of it that it becomes an irresistible action.

Scottish Nationalism has never reached those levels – so moaning that you can’t have you way when the country doesn’t want it isn’t going to cut the mustard.

Incidentally, few countries in the world have a mechanism for breaking themselves up – its not in their interests to do so.

Hatey McHateface

@ Mia says: 27 September, 2024 at 10:17 am

“If the support for Indy is there, the mechanism to demonstrate that support and get a majority vote in favour of Indy is there”

Support for indy in 2015 was over 50%, as judged by the over 50% who voted for pro-independence parties on the GE2015.

We get it. The situation in 2015 was mis-handled, or betrayed. Or perhaps more accurately, the people voted in to deliver Indy were so far out of their competence zone, they had to go off fantasising over other people’s genitals instead, and they never really returned.

So learn from that and come back.

The Plebiscitary Election route is there. Use it.

Really, Mia, at some point Indy has to quit living in the past, quit eternally greetin into its collective dram, and try again.

Bruce’s Spider FFS. It should be in our collective psyche.

Geri

Shitface

Its you that spouts shit & plenty of it.

“It’s not illegal for you, or any other Scot, to stand for office – either at WM or HR, or both.”

The SNP had a triple mandate to exit the union. Scotland has already demonstrated its intention numerous times at the ballot box. The UK even conducted its own polling on the shit state of the union & didn’t like the results so locked it away. They refuse to play ball. What bit are you struggling with?

It wouldn’t matter if Holyrood had a full pro Indy majority. It wouldn’t matter if we had a full house of MPs at Westminster. It wouldn’t matter if polling was 100%, consecutively, over decades.

They will refuse & that’s why it’s utterly futile playing their democracy denying game any longer on a domestic footing. They’re especially going to get hostile too because they own fuck all but what they’re stealing from Scotland. Its time we started looking outside our borders.

Geri

Steven Lannigan

The UK isn’t a country.

& International law recognizes the right of a ppl to Self determination. Nowhere does it state 70/30.

50%+1 is recognised & we have that already.

Mia

“Historically where countries have separated/broken up there has been a huge support for the break up by the population”

The UK is not a country. It is just a political union based on an international treaty subjected to international law, just like the EU is. Ending the treaty of union will not “break” the UK. It will terminate it because the treaty is bilateral, aka between only 2 partners.

There never was support in Scotland for joining the union in the first place, yet, because of a political decision, the people of Scotland were forced into it. Nationalism was never any part of it. It was the crown who pushed and pushed for it because it satisfied its own interests at the time rather than those of England or Scotland.

Where was the majority support for brexit in Scotland and NI?

Nowhere to be seen. Yet, the UK was dragged out of the EU without Scotland’s consent and therefore in direct violation of the claim of right and therefore the ToU.

How on earth was that ever considered legal? and Why was it done? Because it was a political decision which had been already taken even before the 2014 referendum took place.

The bombardment with pro-brexit propaganda we all experienced during the campaign in 2016, and the unlawful tricks which were deployed by the pro-brexit side, were simply the mechanism put in place to ensure that a majority pro-brexit in England was seen by the English people. Because that is the only thing they care about: what England thinks and England sees. And to hell with everybody else.

It was acknowledged in the English courts that some of the tactics used by the pro-brexit side were unlawful, but the courts did not demand a re-run of the referendum because of, guess what? parliamentary sovereignty and because the referendum was advisory, not legally binding, therefore they considered it a political decision to proceed with brexit and not one based on the will of the people.

“Scottish Nationalism has never reached those levels”
And, for as long as we have a continuous stream of people from the rUK and elsewhere entering Scotland and given the vote to the point where the proportion of people living in Scotland born outwith Scotland voting in Scotland’s constitutional matters is well over ten times the proportion of people voting in England’s constitutional matters who were born elsewhere, those levels will never be reached and are designed to be never reached and to be forcibly reduced as the time goes by.

For several years now, the number of deaths in Scotland is surpassing the number of births, meaning that the exchange of native population for migrants is accelerating and the voice of the natives of their own country is being silenced even more as every year goes by.

The natives of Scotland voted for independence in 2014. THAT should have been sufficient, and it would have been sufficient in every other country of the world, for yes to independence to have won. It is evident that the vote of migrants was used as a tool to frustrated the right to self determination of Scotland’s natives.

Mia

“The Plebiscitary Election route is there. Use it.”

Where is that route?

Didn’t you see the parasites from the SNP last week or the week before falling over themselves to vote in masse to betray the people of Scotland by casting their votes AGAINST having the 2026 Holyrood election as a plebiscite?

Didn’t you read the wonderful article the REv published here about that?

There was only ONE, let me repeat it again, ONE MSP who had the backbone, the democratic principles, the dignity and the professional ethics to abide by the MANY mandates given by the people of Scotland for a referendum, and that is Ash Regan.

Not one, let me repeat it again, not a single one from the parasites from SNP, labour, Libdems, Greens or Tories could even put themselves upright and vote to respect the will of the people of Scotland and their democratic mandates. Why? Because they are so far up the arse of the crown that they cannot longe see where the light comes from.

Holyrood cannot longer be trusted and cannot longer be consider as Scotland’s parliament until the parasites sitting there or other representatives we elect, ditch the Scotland Act and stop swearing allegiance to a foreign crown.

Republicofscotland

Kind of insignificant – Russell Findlay, has been announced as the new branch manager of the London Tories in Scotland – the Fifth Columnist leader replaces – nope it gone – that’s how much I thought of the treacherous b*stard – that was Findlay’s predecessor.

Mia

“at some point Indy has to quit living in the past”

No, it is not indy who has to quit living in the past. Indy is not living in the past. Indy is living in the present and very well aware of the shower of parasites who claimed to represent us to get our votes and who have, since then, used every day, every minute of the last 10 years to betray us and are determined to continue to do so.

It is unionism, with their continuous reliance on their official “no” result, obtained by abusing power, playing tricks, using a crooked franchise and rigging the referendum, who has to quit living in the past.

It is unionism and its belief that an English-only convention of parliamentary sovereignty applies to everyone just because England MPs and England judges say it does, who has to quit living in the past.

It is unionism and its belief that it can abuse the UK structures of power and civil service to continue pumping project fear to suppress the fact that they have absolutely no credible arguments to maintain a union which they know is toxic, deadly even if we consider how it is affecting the demographics of its native population, to Scotland.

It is unionism and its useful idiots voted in to represent Scotland and who think that Scotland’s popular sovereignty can be suppressed forever so they can continue lining their pockets and making a career of dangling carrots in front of the Scottish people, who have to move on and stop living in the past.

Scotland may be treated as a colony because the parasites who claimed to represent us are doing nothing to actually represent us and reassert Scotland’s rights. Instead, they are doing everything they can to facilitate the raping and pillaging of Scotland by our union partner. Best examples now are the unlawful usurpation of Scotland’s territory in the form of freeports and the theft of resources through that entity misnomed as “GB” Energy when in reality it is all Scotland’s energy.

But, in my opinion, Scotland is not officially a colony. It is not owned by England and neither are its territory or resources. It is only treated as a colony because the parasites representing us are doing nothing to stop it, despite having the power to do so.

It is time unionism moves from the past and stop considering England owns Scotland and that people from the rUK coming to live here have more rights over Scotland than the natives of Scotland themselves.

Geri

That’s another joke. London Tories who Scotland has rejected for over seventy years but still here scrounging a free seat on the list to meddle & disrupt every single thing going on at the branch office & they’re absolute shit even at that.

Andy Ellis

@LogorrheaMia 11.32am

The natives of Scotland voted for independence in 2014. THAT should have been sufficient, and it would have been sufficient in every other country of the world, for yes to independence to have won. It is evident that the vote of migrants was used as a tool to frustrated the right to self determination of Scotland’s natives.

You’re entitled to your own woo-woo opinions Mia, but not to your own class of facts. The plain fact is not enough of the native Scots could be persuaded to vote for independence to produce a Yes result. Too many sat on their arses and didn’t vote, or lacked the courage to take the leap of faith involved or simply preferred to stay within the union.

It’s just plain wrong for you and the usual suspects to keep insisting – in spite of the categorical evidence to the contrary – that in every other country in the world a majority of native born voters gets to decide the result of self determination referendums. This isn’t a matter of nuance or interpretation: you’re simply in error.

The right of migrants to vote was widely accepted by the movement as part of civic nationalism. It still is. Only a minority of blood and soil nativists outliers who have sadly come to dominate BTL discourse in this place want to change that. Virtually every other self determination referendum in history has relied on the same inclusive residence based franchise, or indeed one even more open, that was used here in 2014.

The fact you and a cabal of zealots didn’t like the result doesn’t allow you to claim you speak for any more than small minority of bigots.

Independence will never be achieved by excluding swathes of the resident population of Scotland. The international community wouldn’t accept such a result and large numbers of people in the movement wouldn’t countenance excluding non-native born voters.

The exclusionary politics and faith based “cunning plans for indy” obsession of you and your co-religionists in here is considerably less popular than that of the likes of Reform, who are at least doing some good by parasitising the Tory vote and ensuring they are even weaker in Scotland than before. Anyone foolish enough to try and campaign on the kind of platform you espouse will do similar damage to the independence movement.

James

Aww jeezo, the ‘names’ are out in force today, the Site prick John Main and Franchise Fanny, and some newbies too, or doppelgangers mebbies…..

We really must tell those ‘cabals of zealots’ in France, Spain, the Netherlands etc etc who deny residents the vote on constitutional matters until x years residency, or in some cases permanently that they are baaaad… Moonhowlers even!

Roll up, roll up, come on in to Scotchland. Day bus trip? Here; here’s your ballot paper….

Andy Ellis

@James 1.22pm

It’s honestly like Father Ted trying to reason with Father Dougal with you chumps isn’t it? You keep trotting out this category error, no matter how many times the error is pointed out.

Are you really so thick you don’t get it, or are you just being disingenuous for the LOLZ? Voting franchises for constitutional votes or elections in already independent states ARE NOT THE SAME as the franchise used in self determination referendums.

There is virtually no precedent in any of the dozens of self determination referendums since 1945 for using a residency period either.

Applying restrictions based on citizenship and length of residence requires an independent state which sets what the citizenship and/or residence criteria are.

If you’re honestly proposing the use of citizenship criteria, it presupposes the enfranchisement of every putative Scottish citizen currently resident in the rest of the world. Good luck with that! Of course that’s not what you’re proposing: you just want to queer the pitch to ensure you get the result you want, even if it rests on a minority.

Dan

The spanner in the works was that if it was solely for the residents of Scotland to decide our future, then what the fuck was the cuckoo in the nest UK MSM (which is predominantly based in England and aligned and supportive of its and UK needs) doing broadcasting its clearly biased influential shite in Scotland during the campaign…

Geri

He wasn’t here but he knows everything about indyref.

‘The international community wouldn’t accept such a result and large numbers of people in the movement wouldn’t countenance excluding non-native born voters.’

How do you know what they will or won’t accept?

Countries recognise other countries. They don’t have a get together & discuss WTF is allowed or not. Do we have an territorial disputes? No. Do we owe any countries money? No.

Not everyone recognises Kosovo. Did it crash & burn & be shunned forever? No. Its still going because OTHERS did & they didn’t give a fck for the ones that didn’t. They’ll come round eventually.

You think yer some kind of constitutional expert. You aren’t. Scotland is a sovereign nation. It doesn’t need a referendum at all if it doesn’t want one. It could terminate the treaty & hold a referendum ON REJOINING depending on what the deal on offer is because it’s sweet fck all at the moment & has been for 300 yrs.

Mia

“what the fuck was the cuckoo in the nest UK MSM (which is predominantly based in England and aligned and supportive of its and UK needs) doing broadcasting its clearly biased influential shite in Scotland during the campaign”

Absolutely. And I would go even further: what were the three English leaders of England’s three main political parties, each and every one of them representing a constituency in England, sticking their nose in the campaign?

And how much money donated by members of those parties in England or from donors based outside Scotland was used to campaign against a yes vote?

How much “UK” money was directed by the UK government (a byproduct of the treaty of union and therefore subordinated to the union, not above it) to the no campaign?

Why was the “UK” civil service involved in the process at all and even being allowed to breach the civil service code by “working all together to save the union”?

How on earth was that not ever seen as direct unlawful interference from external interests attempting to derail a yes vote?

The whole thing was a complete joke, riddled with unlawful external interference and rigged against a yes vote from the very start.

Geri

Kosovo

“The legality of the declaration has been disputed. Serbia sought international validation and support for its stance that the declaration was illegal, and in October 2008 requested an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice.[3] The Court determined that the declaration did not violate international law.[4]”

If Scotland declared it was terminating the Union what could Little England do? Absolutely nothing because the ICJ would recognise Scotland never gave her territory to England & that we’re an equal partner to the Act of Union. Not a subordinate & definitely not a region.

You continue to confuse an already sovereign nation that’s in a treaty that can be terminated at any time, to a region that needs permission from some mother ship to leave it or else the “international community” won’t be happy. May I remind you they’re currently aiding and abetting a geno-cide despite international law & clear legal instructions not to.

They ain’t all that…

Xaracen

Andy Ellis said;

“Voting franchises for constitutional votes or elections in already independent states ARE NOT THE SAME as the franchise used in self determination referendums.”

Don’t be silly, Andy, it’s you who is making a false distinction on the matter! Both of these kinds of plebiscites are specifically constitutional in nature, and thus constitutionally valid franchises are entirely relevant to both. Neither are simple elections, so an ordinary electoral franchise is not appropriate.

It is actually even more important for a self determination referendum in a colonial situation for the franchise to actively prioritise the native population of the relevant territory explicitly to block the colonisers’ votes or ‘conditions’ from muddying the outcome, and that is unequivocally stated by the UN’s own decolonisation committee. There’s a reason it’s called self-determination.

And even if you are right on some examples, it does not mean your stance is right for Scotland’s situation, for the simple reason that Scotland is an actual sovereign nation of centuries-long standing with its own Treaty-guaranteed constitution, its own distinct monarchy, and its own distinct legal system, and its ‘legal’ subjugation by England’s establishment in Westminster is NOT formally supported by anything agreed in the Treaty or Acts of Union. England’s authority is bogus, and it cannot be allowed to interfere with Scotland’s right to self determination in any way at all.

“Applying restrictions based on citizenship and length of residence requires an independent state which sets what the citizenship and/or residence criteria are.”

And thus the essence of self-determination soars far over your rubber head!

John

OT or maybe not.
There was a court case just few years ago, got the clipping somewhere, where a judge in London got pissed then crashed his car into stationary vehicles.
Turned out, according to his defence, that when pissed he suffered from a rare but named condition which made him forget he was pissed. The presiding judge accepted this and the accused judge was let off.
Wots like them ,eh!

Geri

Remember the foreign leaders too invited to stick their nebb in.
The fake ‘no borders’ pish on the BBC 24/7
The fake ‘You’ll be stranded abroad’ ads in the cinema.
The fake ‘vote naw’ to save yer job.
The fake “You’ll not get a transplant/A pension” etc
The foreign interference traced back to Isr with the warm cup of coco pish. Currently lording it up in the Lords..
Who can forget Barosso on the BBC 24/7 telling us we’ll not get into the EU.

It was just wall to wall English & foreign interference & not a single thing they said was true.

James

Franchise Boy;

stop putting words in my mouth.

Everyone here knows that you are desperate to shut down any discussion of the toon cooncil franchise used in 2014.

We know you are desperate for it not to change. Students here for a limited time must get the vote, as must all MOD workers from rUK based here temporarily. Incomers from rUK or anywhere else arriving 2 weeks ago likewise should get a say in our nation’s future.

Your way or no way, we know the drill – we must not even discuss it.

Shug

Has Swinney lifted the phone to Salmond yet???

Anyone know about the discussions.

Mia

“Applying restrictions based on citizenship and length of residence requires an independent state which sets what the citizenship and/or residence criteria are”

Mr Ellis, we have had this discussion far too many times already and it always brings us back to the exact same point. I will repeat it to you once again, despite having already written it here countless times:

You are incorrect. And the evidence is as follows:

Please take a look at The Falklands. They are not “an independent state”. They are a “British overseas territory”, modern terminology for colony.

Now take a look at their own criteria to be able to vote in their referendums. To vote in their referendums, people requires what they call “Falklands Islands Status”.

Now take a look at what “Falkland Islands Status” represents and what criteria you have to fulfill in order to receive it and being able to vote.

You will see that it is mostly based in the place you were born, the place of birth of your parents and length of residence in the Falklands. This is not out of the ordinary, mind. This is precisely what every other country in the world considers as criteria to vote in their constitutional referendums.

For those who were not born in the Falklands or were not born from somebody born in the Falklands, the minimum length of residence before they can apply for such status is SEVEN years.

If a colony as tiny as the Falklands can manage by themselves such registry, it is completely unthinkable that Scotland, a country in a voluntary union with England, a country which has had a parliament and government within the uK for over 20 years, a country that has to keep registries for local, government and union elections and to pay the council tax, cannot create its own “Scotland status registry” akin to what the Falklands have.

Now please take a look at Gibraltar.
It is not an “independent state” either, is it?

Please take a look at their criteria for people to vote in their referendums. As an example, look at the referendum they held in 2021, which was 7 years after our own 2014 referendum and already 3 years ago. Who could vote in that referendum?

“British, aged 16 or over who have been resident in Gibraltar for 10 YEARS OR MORE on the 24 June 2021, or persons registered or entitled to be registered as Gibraltarians
will be eligible to vote”

Who can be registered as “Gibraltarians” or have “Gibraltarian status”?

“A person is eligible to be registered as a Gibraltarian if they are a British national and:

(a) They were born in Gibraltar on or before the 30th day of June 1925; or
(b) They are child of a person born in Gibraltar on or before the 30th day of June 1925; or
(c) They are the descendant of a person entitled to be registered by virtue of (a) or (b) and their parent or grandparent was born in Gibraltar; or
(d) They were born in Gibraltar and are the child of a person who is registered in the register; or
(e) They are married to a person entitled to be register by virtue of (a, b, c or d) or are the widow or widower of such a person.
Further provisions provide for the registration of adopted children.”

There. If a colony as small as Gibraltar could manage to have such register, at least since 2021, so could a country like Scotland.

Now, the main difference between Scotland and The Falklands and Gibraltar is that, while The Falklands are trying to keep out Argentinians from its referendums and Gibraltar is trying to keep the Spanish out of its referendums, Scotland needs to keep the rUK from interfering in its referendums.

THAT is the only reason why Scotland is being told that it “cannot” have its own citizenship registry and THAT is the only reason why none of the parasites populating Holyrood or Westminster claiming to represent us but not doing so, have ever or will ever make a meaningful move to create that darn registry.

The thing is it is not difficult and it would be really, really useful to have started that registry already by 2014 because something like that is going to be needed to establish who is going to get citizenship of Scotland or “Scotland’s status” once Scotland becomes independent. What cannot be done is to simply open the floodgates and let everybody and their dog to enter and vote so they can dilute the voice of the native population even further. Doing so would be complete and utter madness. And that is why no other country in the world (or colony, by looking at the Falklands and Gibraltar) entertains such a thing.

robertkknight

Brexit vote excluded all EU citizens resident in the UK except for citizens of Ireland which were permitted under the 1922 Common Travel Area arrangements.

No reason why those not eligible for Scottish Citizenship in a future Indy Scotland be similarly excluded.

sam

Make what you wish of it.

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

“Voter qualification

The decision about entitlement to vote in sovereignty referendums entails two equally legitimate principles, which may, in most cases, be at odds with each other: universal suffrage and right to self-determination. Historical practice and law of sovereignty referendums use two criteria to reconcile conflicting rights and principles: nativity and residence.

In East Timor referendum for example, persons born outside of the territory but having at least one East Timorese parent, were entitled to vote. Yet this was not always the case. In the Brexit referendum, the UK High Court upheld a 15-year limit of absence for the British citizens’ right to vote, who lived abroad. The difference is mostly due to the pre-referendum history. When the political context is stable and peaceful before and during the referendum, it appears that the residency criterion outweighs the ethnic or birth criterion.”

sam

Much, much more here.

link to cadmus.eui.eu

sam

“Bauböck emphasises the normative significance of the difference between “the putative demos of an independent Scotland” and “the existing demos of Scotland as part of the UK”. He argues that, currently, only the latter can hold a referendum which is democratically legitimate. There is a difference indeed, but this means that the referendum question: “Should Scotland become an independent country?” can be interpreted in two different ways. “Shall the Scottish nation become independent?”; Or: “Shall Scotland decide upon its future status independently of the UK?” I suspect that the independence movement aims to ask the former question.1 The vote for independence of Scotland is a matter of self-determination of certain people, and not merely as an upgrade of the status of certain territory, in the way that a referendum in say, Yorkshire, would be. Further, Scottish independence is qualitatively different from devolution, which is a good reason not to enfranchise the same people for both decisions. However we define ‘people’ in general and ‘the Scots’ in particular, if the referendum is to determine whether such a subject should become independent, it is precisely for the putative members of this subject to decide. This question is ontological and the putative demos comes into being by the act of the vote itself. If this is the question, the franchise should be narrowly tailored to minimise the discrepancy between the people for the purpose of self-determination and the people for the purpose of subsequent politics.”

Skip_NC

John @ 3:27pm, the part-time judge was not let off. he just didn’t go to jail. link to standard.co.uk

Breeks

sam
Ignored
says:
27 September, 2024 at 4:23 pm

Make what you wish of it.

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

First paragraph, I’m already choking.

“Sovereignty referendums are popular consultations”…

No they’re not. Consultative my arse. The vote determines sovereign will, and it’s far too late to be a consultation.

I’m aleady alerted to the typically slimy Britspeak, so desperate to reinterpret what Scottish sovereignty actually means. I will read no further.

velofello

First off a correction to Frank Gillougley’s post.

Bluenose is the name of a sailing ship, and fro memory”ahem” a US navy ship.

Regards the subject of rev’s article. A nation’s politics sitting on a 50:50 split over independence is not a sustainable situation.The “plight” of England – be it the recent riots, non-caucassion immigration, water resource concerns, waterway pollution, and the receipt from Scotland of power transmission and nasty oil and gas – etc. I reckon means that an amicable departure from the “Union ” is unlikely – and a terse departure simply is not in Swinney’s armoury.

twathater

Stu’s haemaroid sucking gollum franchise fanny ellis will NEVER entertain any restrictions on the franchise cause his wife,daughter and in laws are engerlish and DEMAND they have a vote, the self proclaimed arbiter of EVERYTHING in Scotland the clown who knows what every independence supporter is thinking at any given time, the fanny who goes on and on about civic nationalism despite the evidence that the english and others who denied us our independence are a shower of self serving arseholes who WEREN’T interested in civic nationalism they were only interested in themselves

I have posted many times the despicable and outrageous actions taken in Oct 2023 AGAINST the ORIGINAL INDIGENOUS NATIVES of Australia the Aboriginals when they ASKED all the NEW Australians for representation in THEIR parliament to discuss relative NATIVE policies that impacted on them

The NEW Australians showed them what they thought about them and their indigenous culture and history , they told them to FUCK OFF

BUT don’t worry folks I’m sure all our NEW SCOTS with their great civic nationalism as espoused and guided by franchise fanny ellis will respect our history and culture and vote for our independence

Geri

That’s what they tried to say for indyref. That it was only consultative which is why I don’t believe for one minute that they’d have honoured a YES result.

The Edinburgh agreement wasn’t in legal form either. Nothing legal & binding. Just that they’d respect the result. ‘Aye, ok Scotland, I get that yer unhappy. Tough. There you go, we’ve acknowledged the result like we said we would – we’ll try be nicer now get back in yer box, losers.’

I dunno what Salmond was thinking tbh. He knows what slippery double crossing shits they are.

John

“Wernicke’s syndrome “ that’s the fucker you have with a decent defender. Ta @ Skip

Andy Ellis

@LogorrheaMia 4.13pm

You were wrong before and remain wrong now. Both the Falklands and Gibraltar are – unlike Scotland – non self governing territories. Like East Timor and New Caledonia they can’t meaningfully be compared with the many more numerous examples in Europe, particularly those attendant on the collapse of the USSR and Yugoslavia which account for the largest number, but also including Catalonia and Quebec which are more readily comparable with our case.

Your prolixity is only exceeded by your intellectual dishonesty and bigoted nativism.

For the record:

1. Quebec 1980: All Canadian citizens residing in Quebec.

2. Quebec 1995: All Canadian citizens residing in Quebec.

3. Slovenia 1990: All Slovenian citizens (deemed to be all holders of Yugoslav internal citizenship cards resident in Slovenia, irrespective of birthplace or nationality).

4. Lithuania 1991: Nationals of Lithuania, including those resident before the USSR invasion of 1940 & their descendants, plus any Soviet citizens resident in Lithuania who renounced Soviet nationality. Soviet soldiers in Lithuania were excluded.

5. Estonia 1991: All residents with a permanent Soviet resident card in Estonia in 1991. (i.e. including all USSR citizens planted there since 1945).

6. Latvia 1991: All residents with a permanent Soviet resident card in Estonia in 1991. (i.e. including all USSR citizens planted there since 1945).

7. Macedonia 1991: All Macedonian citizens (deemed to be all holders of Yugoslav internal citizenship cards resident in Macedonia, irrespective of birthplace or nationality). Qualifying citizens abroad could vote.

8.Ucraine 1991: All residents of Ucraine. Soviet soldiers stationed in Ucraine were allowed to vote.

9. Bosnia & Hercegovina 1992: Yugoslav citizens who had established permanent residency in B&H.

10. East Timor 1999: those born in East Timor. Anyone not born there but with a parent who was born there. Individuals whose spouse was born in East Timor or whose parent-in-law was born in East Timor.

11. Montenegro 2006: Individuals with a minimum 24-month residency and nationality of the Serb-Montenegrin state.

12. South Sudan 2011: All permanent residents of South Sudan or those whose parents or grandparents were permanent residents since 1956.

13. Scotland 2014: Residents in Scotland with British nationality, or Commonwealth or EU nationality.

14. Catalonia 2014: Residents in Catalonia with Spanish nationality, EU nationality, EEA nationality or Swiss nationality.

So in fact LOTS of other countries both entertain and do exactly what you insist no countries do. Hard fail on your part again.

Mia

“I dunno what Salmond was thinking tbh”

I honestly think he did the best he could with the limited tools he had at his disposal.

Please remember that he had a majority in HOlyrood but not in Westminster.

And we all know that, for as long as it remains in the straight jacket of the Scotland Act, Holyrood is not a real parliament. It is just a local colonial administration.

It is really and have always been Scotland’s MPs who hold the power to end the union. They are the direct representatives of Scotland’s old parliament and therefore hold the powers of that parliament.They are the ones who hold the so called “reserved” powers.

It is only because they are spineless and continuously choose to hand those powers over to their English counterparts, instead of exercising them themselves, that the later are empowered and think they have a claim over Scotland.

To force a referendum, the only thing the SNP MPs had to do was to lift their arses from the green seats, stop looking towards the subsidised bars and restaurants in Westminster for a moment, and do their job: threat the UK gov and crown with immediately reconvening the old Scotland’s parliament to put the union on hold until that referendum took place. There. Job done.

Threatening to reconvene the old Scottish parliament is what Scotland’s MPs and peers did in 1710-11 in the context of the Hamilton affair.

Mr Salmond did not have an anti-union MP majority at his disposal like the political fraud Sturgeon had. He only had 6 MPs, if I remember correctly. The rest were pro-colonial MPs from England’s parties. So he really needed the UK government to act as an intermediate.

For what I recall from reading through Hansard’s records, he might have got Cameron to speak to Scotland’s MPs from Labour and libdems and got them to agree to have the referendum.

And this is what I mean. The power to hold that referendum was not in Holyrood and never was (unless the Scotland Act was ditched, which was not). For as long as our MSPs continue to worship the Scotland Act, the power to hold a referendum will always reside with the custodians of Scotland’s parliament, and those are Scotland’s MPs, not England’s ones.

Both, Westminster and the UK gov are by-products of the treaty of union, and therefore subordinated to the parliaments of Scotland and England. Because of this it is ludicrous to even suggest that the so called UK gov has any legitimacy in denying a referendum to Scotland. Cameron and Clegg understood this very well, and that is why they never denied it.

Personally, I do not believe May or Johnson actually denied the referendum to Scotland. I am convinced it was the political fraud Sturgeon who did and, in collusion with the UK gov, presented them as the bogeymen so she could continue to dupe us all with her carrot dangling while she keep the yes movement on a leash to kill its momentum and actively dismantled the democratic structures of the SNP rendering it a shell.

For what I read in some BBC article at the time, Mr Salmond did not beg for a S30 like the pathetic Sturgeon did. He did not even ask for one. For what I read in that article, in fact, at the time, it was somebody from the UK government who actually offered it.

When Keith Brown said that the UK gov was never going to give us a S30, in my opinion, the reason when he did that is becasue Scotland does not have an anti-union MP majority any longer. Pro-colonial Labour Mps pretending to “represent” Scotland will never agree to it. I am of the opinion this scenario is what Sturgeon’s SNP had been working since 8 May 2015.

Looking retrospectively, the only two things I would dare criticise from what Mr Salmond did in 2014 was the franchise and to have followed the guidance of whomever arsehole advised him to resign.

Mr Salmond did not lose on that referendum. Quite the opposite. Independently that I personally think that Yes won that referendum and the “official” result we were given was bogus, even if we look past that, Mr Salmond made independence a real possibility. He put independence in the map for Scotland. He said he was going to deliver a referendum and he did. And he managed to bring support for independence from 23% at the beginning to 2013 to over 50% at least the week over the referendum and, in my opinion, for quite a bit of time after the referendum took place. He completely changed the political landscape.

He left the yes movement in the perfect position and with all the tools required to score their goal. And we would have done, had the yes movement not been saddled with the toom tabard Sturgeon.

Mia

“Both the Falklands and Gibraltar are – unlike Scotland – non self governing territories”

When exactly, since May 1707, did Scotland become a “self-governing territory”?

Scotland is controlled by England as the UK government and parliament and its colonial administrative branch in Scotland.

It can quickly become a self-governing territory if Scotland’s MPs ever grow a backbone, dare to stand upright and reconvene the old Scottish parliament. But until that point, Scotland is not a self-governing territory.

If two tiny colonies like the Falklands and Gibraltar, both under BRitish control, can, AND HAVE successfully created citizenship registries with well defined criteria to specifically limit the franchise, and to specifically deny the vote to individuals coming from the neighbour countries, which are far bigger in population than they are, so can Scotland.

What exactly is stopping it, other than the supine attitude of Scotland’s MSPs and MPs?

Nothing.

Why hasn’t a citizenship register been done in the last 10 years, despite Scotland having an, allegedly, nationalist government?

Because what we have was not a “nationalist” government, but rather a devolutionist one that was more interested in stopping independence than facilitating it, never mind delivering it.

If the Falklands and Gibraltar can have a “Falklands Islands status” or “Gibraltar status” and a closed franchise, so can Scotland.

Anthem

Mia. Couldn’t agree more.

James

Who should decide on what franchise to use anyway? The Scots?
The UN (suits me), and why would anyone be so opposed to a, say (let’s be generous, why not, we have been for 317 years) 5 year residency rule,and no restriction if you moved here in less than that but were born here? What’s so difficult to accept there? Methinks AskAndy is Yoon moonhowler mebbies?

Who does AskAndy think should decide what franchise would be used…..? Hmmmmm. Oh, I know – Westminster!

Alf Baird

sam @ 4:58 pm

“if the referendum is to determine whether such a subject should become independent, it is precisely for the putative members of this subject to decide”

Yes, it is inevitably the case that ‘independence is a matter only for the colonized group’ (Memmi). Being oppressed as an ethnic group, liberation must also be of that group. This also explains why an independence movement is dependent on the solidarity of the oppressed group, in our case the Scots. Other ethnic groups may or may not be sympathetic to our liberation cause, but Scottish independence is not about their liberation.

Big Jock

For those unionists who like to pretend all other countries voted 70% in favour of independence. Therefore they throw around these statistics, as a reason to de-legitimise Scottish support.

A constitutional referendum was held in Malta between 2 and 4 May 1964. The new constitution was approved by 54.5% of voters, and came into effect on 21 September 1964. It was effectively a referendum on independence, as the new constitution gave the country self-government.

You see, that’s called democracy. Only 55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK. Hardly a ringing endorsement, and the same numbers as Malta’s vote to leave.

Once we start claiming that 50% plus 1 is not enough. Then we may as well suspend belief in democracy and mental arithmetic. A majority is a majority no matter what they try and claim.

Big Jock

James. I would make that 10 years residency. I would still rather it was only indigenous Scots. That is Scots born ,raised and living here. But I realise that’s a hard sell to tge snowflake politicians.

Viscount Ennui

Most of the very reasonable arguments put forward on both sides regarding international recognition of potential independence ignore the geostrategic significance of Faslane and a strong military presence in this country. NATO will not want us to separate from the UK and that probably overrides and economic, cultural, or moral arguments. We are not Catalo ua or Kosovo.

Viscount Ennui

I typed Catalonia!

Andy Ellis

@James 8.53pm

The franchise should be decided by Scots, as it was in 2012 via their government negotiating the Edinburgh Agreement in 2012.

There would be little point in their representatives in Holyrood (or indeed any castles in Spain “cunning plans for indy” body dreamt up by the Brigadoon nationalists in the unlikely event they ever manage to do anything concrete) deciding on a franchise that resulted in a refusal by the UN or significant numbers of other states to recognise any result based on a franchise that is regarded as suspect or non standard.

Some people might accept a residence qualification. Many won’t. As I’ve pointed out before however, hardly any self determination referendums impose ANY residence qualification. So why should Scotland be the outlier? We can hardly claim to be more oppressed than most of the other states which have managed to achieve their independence using the same or even more liberal franchises.

You have neither logic nor historical / constitutional precedent on your side. Unlike you, I’m not a snivelling anonymous nativist bigot spouting their bile BTL on Rev Stu’s site, even though he publicly rubbishes your moonhowling plans.

The franchise used is already established. Nobody sane wants to change it. If change is agreed by the majority of the movement, it still has to be accepted by the other side and the international community because there is zero point in a contested referendum. Since we won’t be having a referendum anytime soon, it doesn’t really matter. Plebiscitary elections are the way forward: they won’t exclude those the moonhowlers regard as mischlings or ethnically undesirable either. Suck it up bigots.

Dan

Ooh, Friday Nicht Franchise Fun again….

But talking of disenfranchisement…

#PistonRingsOverScotland

Begbie mode on/

After the week I’ve had dealing with vehicle issues, no Swede or German living in Scotland gets a vote again till they give me the names or heads on spikes of their countryman that signed off the fitting of a piece of shit sealed for life autobox in a Volvo, and a pissy wee wet belt driving the oil pump in a VW engine.
Absolute insanely weak engineering designs rendering vehicles with around 100k miles on them made by manufacturers that used to have great reputations for reliability and high mileages pretty much beyond viable repair.

Epicyclic autoboxes with their numerous clutch plates and friction bands inherently create fibrous debris, and this means the transmission oil and filter require changing so the contaminated oil doesn’t start to choke filter and wear components leading to pressure and control system problems.
But Volvo in their “wisdom” decided to install a transmission that doesn’t facilitate servicing…
There is a filter inside the autobox but you have to remove the entire transmission and transfer box (4wd vehicle) from the car and then actually split the autobox cases open to access the filter to change it…

And VW just continue with their downward trajectory of creating ever shitter products with the “robust” Amarok pickup which used a stupid little internal rubber and fibre wet belt from the crankshaft to drive the oil pump, which sheds fibres and chokes the oil pump pickup pipe in the sump resulting in no oil pressure and totes fucks the crankshaft and bearings rendering engine as we say in the trade – cunted.

Top skillz you utter dullards when Volvo could have just had a transmission with a drain plug and accessible filter, and VW could have retained the simple reliable chain running in the engine oil like on earlier evolutions of the 4 cylinder VW engines, because the Amarok 2.0 diesel only uses the small oil pump and not the much larger combined oil pump / balancer shaft assembly which added so much extra driven weight and load that even the chains failed and you then had to switch to using actually gears to rotate the thing.

So fuck the Swedes, and fuck the Germans until they furnish me with the identities of those guilty of inflicting so much needless mechanical, economic, and environmental grief onto my fellow Scottish citizens.

Begbie mode off/

Andy Ellis

@Vicount Ennui 9.23pm

There’s very little evidence that a post independence Scotland would be anything other than Atlanticist in outlook though, so why would NATO set its face against the democratic will of the majority of Scots if they voted for independence?

Given recent events and the extraordinarily rapid accession of Sweden and Finland in to the alliance, it’s even less likely Scotland post independence would opt for splendid isolation, however fondly the sophomoric marxists in here wish it weren’t so.

NATO is in fact much more likely to be keen to ensure a rapid entry in to the alliance for Scotland given its strategic position, particularly as its highly likely we’d provide a better and more coherent security environment when shorn of the UK’s delusions of post imperial world influence.

We can spend less than we currently contribute to the UK defence budget and be better defended, with defence forces and a defence industrial base tailored to our needs and spending / investing more in Scottish industries like shipbuilding.

There’s no reason we can’t do it when neighbours like Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden can.

The Britnats can pay us rent for use of Faslane until they can move operations elsewhere: it’s a great bargaining chip for leverage in the negotiations post declaration of independence.

Hatuey

Obviously a lot will depend on how the war goes; if the west wins, there’s a good chance we will see some sort of gesture towards Scotland. You often see quite large progressive steps taken after big wars.

I couldn’t guess what the Russians and Chinese would want for Britain if the West was to lose the war. Maybe they’ll reconstruct us just as we reconstructed Germany and Japan after WWII.

The smart money would probably be on nuclear war if we are asking what scenario might most likely lead to Scottish independence. The trouble there is that there won’t be many of us left to enjoy it, but even so — even mushroom clouds have silver linings, I guess.

Geri

Viscount Ennui

That’s what you call hard lines. Faslane is Scotlands territory. Not the UKs & Not Americas paper tiger. The Nukes aren’t ours either & neither is the codes.

As for yoons & the franchise & % criteria they like to invent – shall we all cancel Brexshit? That was only 52% & huge numbers of citizens were denied a vote. Jeez, the can’t even vote on a General election. A fact that Franchise Fanny conveniently forgets right here at home..we don’t need to go trotting round Google Earth looking for shit to fit his argument. Look at the UK franchise. Even NI for that matter .

Mia, agreed regards Salmond. I just wish things hadn’t been agreed without them being nailed down legally in writing. We were stiffed with the Smith commission too. The fact there was nothing to prevent a ref in the future should’ve been written into the Scotland Act at the time. Same with Dewars *gentleman’s agreement* that died with him. I know Smith wasn’t him, he’d handed over to Gold Standard Sturgeon by then who only managed a Gold standard in a catalogue of failures. Agreed too on the nyaff who advised him to step down. He should’ve dealt with Smith first imo…

I believe we were robbed too. The very fact the SNP membership soared within days of the no vote & the landslide GE only a few months later.

The ink was hardly dry on the no vote when the UK government started selling oil licenses & I now discover, through following geopolitical channels, the Americans begged Saudi to crash the oil prices to harm R in 2014 cause that’s when they carried out their coup in U. It’d have been a godsend for Cameron at the time cause it fit neatly with our indyref at the same time when the Better Together mob could craw the price of oil had fallen. Aye, cause it had been manipulated to harm R.

Robert Hughes

yr man still going on about the ” International Community ” ( by which he means the West ) : have you seen the state of this ” International Community ” ?

Why-the-fuck would any sane country want to be part of THAT , let alone be concerned about whether it would ” recognise ” Scotland if it/we did what we should have done years ago , ie find a way to generate majority support ( by being bold for a change , rather than nice n timid ) , ditto a way to demonstrate that majority ( eg Pleb Election ) , then declare the * Union * done , over , fckn kaput .

The whole ” recognition ” thing is just another imaginary bogeyman , like all the other Better Together fearmongering pish

Did any of the countries that have liberated themselves from oppressive colonial/colonialesque domination , eg from the British , Spanish and – presently – U.S Empires ask or wait for the imprimatur of any such ” International Community ” before severing their shackles ? Naw , they didnae , they just acted .

Whilst we would not advocate any kind of – literal – armed struggle , it will require the same type of psychological commitment & martial mentality as those countries who have fought for and won their independence if we’re ever to overcome the * forces * arrayed against us achieving the restoration of our status as an Independent Sovereign Nation .

Anyone thinking appeals to ” Democracy ” and ” fair play ” alone will somehow , magically , be answered positively in the current , manifestly psychotic/corrupt ” Reality Show ” that is West Politics is living in Dreamland .

Mia

@Geri

What you say about the oil is really interesting.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cameron actively colluded with the Americans to crash the oil prices so Scotland’s oil could be portrayed as worthless during the ref campaign. The move would have been mutually beneficial.

Didn’t Obama and Hillary Clinton also stick their uninvited nose in our referendum, “advising” us that we were better in the UK and that (Clinton) would “hate for the UK to lose Scotland”?

And isn’t Hillary Clinton one of the people Sturgeon admires and praises the most?

Geri

NATO is a colonising enterprise. Do we not know that already?

*It sets up shop on a huge chunk of free real estate.
*That free real estate is Sovereign to NATO.
*NATO is UNELECTED.
*They are exempt from all laws of their host nation.
*They can do anything they want in that patch of land, be it nukes, biolabs, chemicals, torture terrorists or missiles & government has hee haw say on the matter.
*You automatically accept Americas foreign policy & any other policy they choose & that includes gender shit.
* 32 countries have to agree to defend you. If one says naw, that’s tough. You’ve paid into the club for nothing.
*If America picks a fight you cannot refuse to go & they’re always picking a fight.
*You must buy their weapons but only they know how to use them so they’ll deploy yet more GI Joes to yer country as *Intel*
* The ‘Reviewed every ten years’ is bullshit. They extend it when it’s about to expire & make it PERMANENT.
*The host nation MUST pay for its upkeep & anything needing renewed.
*All military personnel don’t pay taxes to their host nation .
*Percentage of GDP on top of renewal costs..

So pray tell why you think Scotland, having just left one colonisers, would annex Faslane to another coloniser under a different name? Sign up to someone else’s foreign policy? And have heehaw say on what goes on there? It would be a constant boil on Scotlands arse PLUS Scotland would have its of navy, it’s own patrol boats when we’re Indy for our vast sea boundaries. Faslane will be used.

Scotland would be asked in a referendum & ALL the facts laid out. Sweden & Finland already have buyers remorse. There was no public referendum & they’re not happy with nukes. Germany is also not happy they’re getting new ones either. NATO is a busted flush. It also breaks international law & isn’t peacekeeper but tyrant thinking nothing of obliterating civilians or carrying out/ funding acts of terrorism under the guise it wasn’t them.

Even one of them at the EU (Forget his name) said NATO is finished & countries should just have their own defense. You can scrap the EU too from yer *to- latch-on-to-indy-list* because they’re not interested in anything other than making the EU an extension of the US military industrial complex & writing out sanctions.

Dan

I’m wondering if French farmers give two fucks what La Communauté Internationale thinks with their Gold Standard Rules Based Order pish when said farmers protest and get shit done.

I’m not seeing much outrage from the International Community and all those WEF COP wazzocks when it comes to vehicle manufacturers making and offloading endless shite products on to an unsuspecting public.
Got to laugh when folk are so fucking gullible to think the same bunch of corporate vehicle manufacturing twats that have deviated so far from sound and proven engineering protocols to produce massively flawed products, are somehow going to make perfect planet saving leccy vehicles.

As an aside, diz anybody ken if yon Dr Oetker is a big proponent of the genderwoowoo?
Found an old pizza in the freezer and a little concerned the meat on it might be sourced from the residual waste of gender reassignment operations.
#PizzaMeatFightClubStyle

Geri

Mia

Yes, they stuck their nebb in.

Cackling Clinton is pure evil. Have you heard her tape? Absolutely vile cretin. I can see why Sturgeon had an attraction.
& Obama, two hypocrites that had no business sticking their nose in who must’ve forgotten they Jettisoned the English themselves but we’d be better to keep them..

Regards the oil – President Obama met with the Saudi King to beg him to increase production to flood the market. It was done to harm Rs economy as the US were overthrowing the elected president of U at the same time & the Maidan conflict was in full swing. Cameron would’ve stuck his nebb in for sure. It was unfortunate our indyref was happening at the same time. It also now makes me wonder why we had R observers? All dodgy Dave no doubt.

The US weaponise & manipulate everything & why BRICS is growing as countries look to break away from the constant drama the US causes where their country feels the constant effect the Americans have caused. America sneezes & the whole world catches a cold is true right enough. I recently found out too that the IMF is another one they heavily manipulate. They don’t agree to loans unless that country adopts their wackadoo policies & charges poor countries higher rates, penalties & sanctions keeping them constantly poor. Jeez, they’re into loan sharking too lol

Aye, I can really see rural African countries spreading trans joy & net zero at their new water pump! Not.

Geri

Dan

Aren’t they all made by robots on a production line now?

Quantity over quality.

Robert

‘The whole ” recognition ” thing is just another imaginary bogeyman , like all the other Better Together fearmongering pish’

Exactly. We could have all the permission slips in the world. It won’t make someone recognise us if they simply don’t want to. Nowhere does it say it’s a requirement. Some countries will, some other countries may not – no one steps in to say it’s void cause they don’t all agree. We’re not at school.

This ‘international community’ are currently breaking all international laws at the moment, from outright theft to arming one unhinged nutter with messages from God to conduct geno*cide – Despite a court ruling to cease & desist – to another that’s not even elected, sold all the land & is erecting Nazi statues. Sheesh!

Franchise Fanny treats them like they’re his God. A fictional Oz more like. 146 UN member states recognise a Palestinian state. Three perpetually veto. There’s yer international community for you. It denies democracy if it’s not in their interests. Same for a ceasefire. Denied.

They now also want to scrap international law & invent a new rules based order. Wouldn’t that be convenient, international treaties rendered meaningless everywhere & a US one instead. I hardly think they’re any moral authority to give an opinion to anyone or advice on independence.

twathater

Geri you and Mia are on fire, Gollum is getting angry he’s started quoting Stu again, he must think Stu is the messiah

Andy Ellis

@Robert Hughes 10.48pm

You may think international recognition is trivial, but most sane people don’t. Ask the Catalans, Northern Cypriots, Abkhazians, Transnistrians and folk of Somaliland how things are going. Try travelling anywhere on the passport of an unrecognised state, or doing business anywhere, or acceding to any international organisation.

The only reason Kosovo managed to achieve independence after declaring UDI – even in the face of Serbian aggression and ethnic cleansing – was that the majority of the international community supported it, including most of those you need: the USA, EU and their allies. The few remaining countries who don’t support it have ideological axes to grind in favour of Serbia’s regressive regime, or are doing so because they have secessionist movements of their own they don’t want to be seen to encourage.

You and your fringe nutter mates may see the appeal of being a tartan Hoxha style Albania existing in splendid isolation from the international community, alliances or even the UN….the rest of us…? Not so much.

The UN may be dysfunctional, but if you want to tear it down what’s going to replace it?

Andy Ellis

@twatbynametwatbynature 4.15am

Geri you and Mia are on fire…

Only their pants, which is what most of their output is to be fair. 🙂

Xaracen

twathater said;

“Geri you and Mia are on fire, Gollum is getting angry he’s started quoting Stu again, he must think Stu is the messiah”

Seconded!

Geri

‘The UN may be dysfunctional, but if you want to tear it down what’s going to replace it?’

Its dysfunctional because of ONE county & it’s handful of attack dogs.

What will replace it? Countries who uphold international law. Have you missed the anger on display this week from a multitude of countries threatening to quit if reforms are not carried out & the US has been handed it’s arse on a plate numerous times for its colonial endeavors & geno-cide.

There are also calls to reform the security council. Oh dear, bye, bye little England & France. Hee-haw use to anyone on the world stage.

Don’t mock it either. They mocked BRICS & look where they are now.

This happened before with the League of Nations. A handful of countries thinking they ruled the roost.

I think it will implode & start a new. Far to many
complaining it only serves the interests of one master & a master that disregards international law & a fcking tyrant who commits geno-cide with impunity. Even the courts threatened & that countries thugs at the UN are allowed to rip up charters & act like a bunch of neds who just spilled out the pub.

Numerous times they’ve voted for Palestine, ceasefire, two State, you name it & each time it is vetoed by the US.

There have been calls to have I removed too.

This has been brewing a long time but their terrorist attack with digital devices & their assassinations carried out in other countries seems to have been the straw that’s finally broken the camels back.

Dan

#AskAndy

Should you not be spending more of your time interacting and convincing the wider electorate of the merits of your Alba Party, rather than engaging with a handful of fringe nutter bigots and nativists?
It’s just that Alba are still polling rather shitly and just lost a couple of their MPs.
Kenny M fae your Party got less votes than the I4I candidate so I’ll take anything you say on genius political tactical moves with a fair bit of skepticism.

Some folk seem far too easily distracted yet again going over old ground of franchises and referendums.
What’s actually wrong with focusing on and working towards a plebiscite general election whereupon we try to elect a majority of candidates who will not take up their seats in Westminster and instead instruct an end to the Union.
That seems to be the most straightforward, applicable, and legitimate way to proceed with a reasonable time frame and voting system.
Endless repetitive bickering going over what’s been done to death numerous times already is pointless and a distraction.

Geri

Twathater & Xaracen

Why thank you! Ditto to you too.

Hatey McHateface

Geri

Your entire tottering house of cards ignominiously collapses if it’s not “genocide-cide”.

And of course it’s not.

It’s what you do isn’t it? Erecting houses of cards on foundations of sand. All in pursuit of objectives a million miles removed from Indy, but far closer to what deep down YOU really want.

You should listen to Dan.

Geri

Shitface

Its all relative & is Indy.

A new world order is emerging & one that is absolutely scunnered with Colonialism.

BRICS for example believe in..

Upholding international law.
Upholding international treaties.
Not having a foreign policy imposed on them.
Not living under fear of invasion, sanction or being overthrown by the world police.
Trading with whom they like.
Trading in their own currency.
Investing in the future, not warring.
Setting up an alternative to SWIFT
Keeping their nose out of other countries affairs.
Keeping their nose out of other countries elections.
Uphold the rights of a people to self determination
Not buying the US new rules order pish.
Not starting wars & demanding their friends join in or else.
A fairer system & helping hand to poor & underdeveloped countries emerging from centuries of colonial bullshit & apartheid.

& Don’t try insult peoples intelligence. It IS geno-cide. They even defiantly admit it, ya plank. Now they want to extend into every neighbouring country because colonisers never know when to STOP. Everyone is a terrorist according to them & hiding under civilian hospitals & schools & racist planks like you lap it up cause you button up the back.

That’s yet another reason the UN will implode. The UN isn’t buying that pish any longer & various legal & Binding security council resolutions are just ignored. The US trying the Brit trick of “only in a small & meaningful way” doesn’t wash any longer & the courts, ICJ & ICC, issued death threats & even lifetime bans from the US if they fail to always favour US & I. Its brought about its own downfall. Everyone & their dug knows why they want to expand that region & they’ve turned into Nazis. Not surprising really because it’s an amalgamation of every fuckwit who’ve no right to be there. Europeans & Yanks picking up arms & dishing out punishments the moment they step off the plane.

They should’ve stuck with what they were given for free & STFU.

James

Oh dear. I only opined re a 5 (or 10) tear residency rule to counter our current uncontrolled open borders. My bad.

AskAndy says that makes me an “anonymous insane, snivelling nativist bigot, spouting bile from brigadoon.”

I’m hurt to the quick, so I am. AskAndy obviously knows everything about absolutely everything; he’s the messiah. I’ll spend the rest of the weekend lying down and pondering where on earth did I go wrong? Should I start reading the foreign Scottish mainstream media? Should I get a tv licence and watch the BBC? Is that where I’ve gone wrong?

Wise up, folks and AskAndy! He will set us free! No more involvement in illegal wars, NATO membership or nukes next to Glasgow when he’s in charge, no siree! Now, where’s that Daily Heil?

Hatey McHateface

Geri

In a sane country, you’d be celebrated as a national treasure. There’s nobody else, anywhere in the world, who can force their own head so far up their own arse that it starts to look as if their head is out the top again.

But still, the big question goes unanswered.

Do you actually believe the shite you post, or do you know it for the shite it is, but choose to post it anyway?

Anyhoo, looks like another few of the finger-wagging medievalists have been gifted an early appointment with the Big Man upstairs this morning. Oh to be a fly on the wall when they get their two minutes “justifying” why they coveted their neighbour’s land, and why they believed women are second-class, inferior beings, better than dogs certainly, but not by much.

Why don’t you take the hank of well-chewed carpet out of your mouth and scweem something about “geno-cide”? You’ll feel better, of that I’m certain.

Andy Ellis

@Geri

I’m all for dismantling the UN for all the use it is. A body which is incapable of doing what it was established to do, and which unapologetically allows Iran and Saudi Arabia to sit on its Human Rights Commission is just trolling the general public at this stage.

Your facile slightly unhinged Wolfie Smith worldview is interesting, but only in the sense of that old Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times”.

So will these countries who uphold international law impose sanctions on China for it’s suppression of democracy in Hong Kong and of the Uighurs? If some bad actor attacks a neighbour, or begins exterminating some minority it disapproves of, do we just let them? If not, who is going to stop it?

Are you going to advocate for the formation of some new body with its own armed forces able to impose it’s will, or simply let might prevail?

I’d be all for them going for the mad mullahs in Tehran and hanging a few from lamp-posts to make an example after what they’ve done to the Iranian people over decades for example. Similarly with those responsible for Tiananmen Square.

I imagine quite a few of those in power would be feeling a bit nervous if there was some over arching authority capable of investigating and punishing all wrong doers.

You seem to have the hots for imposing some kind of New World Order without any actual clue of how it might be constructed, let alone paid for or enforced. Or maybe it’s just that you’re full of it….I reckon that’s probably it. No huge surprise there.

Mia

“Your entire tottering house of cards ignominiously collapses if it’s not “genocide-cide”.”

But it is. So your comment comes across as a very poor attempt at deflection by whataboutery. According to Google, whataboutery or whataboutism is “the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation.”

Andy Ellis

@Dan 9.34am

Why am I obliged to do anything you think is right? Being a member of Alba doesn’t oblige me to do anything in particular. If folk have loads of spare time to campaign and want to do so they should have at it. Seems Alba has more members than the Tories in Scotland, so perhaps we can only expect some upturn in their fortunes down the line.

Countering the barking mad vomitus of nativists bigots polluting BTL discourse in here is performing a public service. We can’t have undecided wavering voters who might be attracted to independence thinking the intellectual dross spouted by the usual suspects in here is representative after all.

If you and the other moonhowlers want to do something more useful, then go do! Perhaps then we’ll attract some normal folk back to BTL here.

James

Oh my…AskAndy the messiah wants to dismantle the UN but keep NATO and Scotland should join it….

I need to stop reading these deranged posts…

And the site prick is awake and up anaw…. lol what a double act.

The Flying Iron of Doom

Dan says:
27 September, 2024 at 9:37 pm

After the week I’ve had dealing with vehicle issues, no Swede or German living in Scotland gets a vote again till they give me the names or heads on spikes of their countryman that signed off the fitting of a piece of shit sealed for life autobox in a Volvo, and a pissy wee wet belt driving the oil pump in a VW engine.

Well, if my experience as a circuit-monger is anything to go by then I would put such automotive arsery down to cost-cutting. I know that my experience with mass-market (or “cost-sensitive” as they call it) designs where the production runs were gonna be in excess of ~250,000 has been…well, not good. There is major pressure to keep the BOM cost and the assembly time (since time==money) down, so you end up having to eliminate “unnecessary” components while using inferior (i.e. cheap) parts which are sometimes driven hard at (or sometimes beyond) their limits and therefore liable to fail. Still, never mind – who cares if those crappy Chinese electrolytic caps are gonna dry out, dome up and then burst within a couple of years eh? Who cares if those LEDs are gonna cook themselves due to inadequate heatsinking? Who cares if the enclosure has been ultrasonically welded shut so yer punter can’t even get in to repair the bloody thing? =IdiotsOverrulingEngineers 😥

Hatey McHateface

@Mia 12:10

But it’s naw.

43,000 plus dead in nearly a year. A goodly number of them gun-toting, RPG-firing combatants too. According to UNICEF, 1000 kids die every day from dirty drinking water. Why’s that not geno-cide?

The world’s surviving geno-cidists will be splitting their sides laughing at you and the rest of the virtue-signalling dupes.

Those geno-cidists already dead will be birling in their graves.

And when was their ever a geno-cide that stopped to allow the children of the so-called victims to be vaccinated?

Get a grip. You’re making us Scots look like dunderheids.

Hatey McHateface

James says

prick

I have a grudging respect for anybody willing to broadcast their monomania on a site like this one.

Well done to you, James, you’re out and defiantly proud of it too.

Keep it up for as long as you can.

Geri

Ask Andy

You’re colonialism is interesting considering yer supposedly an independence supporter.
There you go interfering in other countries business about human rights while you advocate ppl to swing from lampposts & playing at world police. Have you heard yourself? Out loud?

Any countries who don’t like the way things are going can bring about their own countries change. They don’t need some fckn eejit pretending to do it for them because that pish doesn’t fly now either because it’s not democracy they are spreading but colonialism. They’re no more interested in human rights than you are & are responsible for most of the violence & deaths wherever they go & a chunk of that countries resources for their bother.

The new world order is already organising & it will be by those whose who are technology advanced & emerging economies who don’t have a GDP/PPP swirling round the plughole. They’re already proving they can put differences aside amicably. Its only the fuckwit three who make it their mission to interfere even in peace treaties that’s fck all to with them but we all know they don’t want peace – they want a share of the spoils circling like vultures.

When you condemn I & it’s geno-cide get back to us about other countries human rights records, ya hypocrite. Same goes for the UNELECTED fckwits in U who have totally destroyed an independent country to strip it of its trillions worth of resources.

No one needs armed forces through a colonial outfit . Old alliances worked perfectly well before NATO ever came along. Over 800 military bases it has around the globe accountable to no one. Unelected & addicted to war & meddling in other countries governments. Countries can choose their own foreign policy & with no fuckwits policies attached. How many countries has China invaded? Iran? India? Venezuela?

Away & fck off back to yer Brit nat bunker, ya racist hypocrite.
I think yer done here pretending you support Scottish independence. You can’t even construct a sentence without the typical britnats insult towards Scots. Fck off back to yer own kind & join yer family. I’m sure they’re missing you..

Hatey McHateface

There’s an educational article on Chinese Expansionism on Wiki.

But nobody who has ever heard of Tibet needs to bother reading it.

As for Iran, it’s their proxy’s colonisation of Lebanon that’s the root cause of today’s current stushie. They covet Moses’ Promised Land too. Time was when every Scot would have known this, but educational achievement has slipped in recent decades. How else can anybody explain the enthusiasm for the medieval misogynistic clerics that seems to have Wings BTL so under its thumb.

Venezuela? Good luck finding some of the indigenous Arawaks & Caribs who once regarded that land as their own.

As for India. They’ve been fighting China on and off for over half a century over the contested lands straddling their shared border. It doesn’t matter which country is in the right here; the country in the wrong automatically disproves Geri’s assertions.

It’s never a good idea to just make stuff up, Geri. Your conviction that the road to Indy lies through making stuff up will always be debunked by the sane, rational and educated.

Anton Decadent

@Dan, in the early 2000’s me and the then squeeze went on a trip to Loch Lomond with another couple. The driver had been given the Volvo estate by his dad for whom it had been the company car and at that point it had 250,000 miles on it and was running like a champ due to being looked after.

Mia

@Hatey McHateface

It is. And it is about time the terrorist state which has been getting away with it for decades is brought to heel.

But for that, it is required that the higher echelons of USA and UK take for a moment their eyes away from the backhanders and bribes they are getting for looking the other way, and start looking instead at the emaciated, mutilated and disemboweled dead bodies of tens of thousands of innocent children that their disgusting inaction, total lack of humanity and morally corrupt complicity with this out of control, rogue, apartheid and murderous state has caused.

“According to UNICEF, 1000 kids die every day from dirty drinking water. Why’s that not geno-cide?”

Sorry, but your whataboutery and pathetic attempts at deflection are not fooling anyone.

Anton Decadent

Here is something for those wondering why Glasgow University appears to be working against us and why Angus Robertson met with that ambassador. This organisation is active in editing Wikipedia to their liking.

link to archive.ph

Hatey McHateface

@Mia says: 28 September, 2024 at 3:05 pm

it is about time the terrorist state which has been getting away with it for decades is brought to heel

Sure, you and whose army, eh Mia?

I don’t care that you’ve decided to hitch your wagon to a people whose primary characteristic has been to ensure that not even their allies and co-religionists want them anywhere near.

What I object to is your attempts to tie my country, Scotland, to that medieval, nihilistic, lassie torturing, baby burning, shithole.

Here’s a quote for you:

“One of the most remarkable Nobel statistics is that 22 per cent of winners have been Dewish, despite them comprising less than 0.2 per cent of the world’s population”

I’m very happy indeed to support a people who have benefitted the world, and Scotland, and me, far beyond their numbers.

No doubt “your side” has given us a hundred words for sand, and maybe two hundred for hatred, persecution, and oppression of women.

emaciated, mutilated and disemboweled dead bodies of tens of thousands of innocent children

The Humous boys need more, much, much more. Their one policy is to pile the bodies of their own women and kids as high as they can to protect their yellow hides, while they cower in their tunnels behind their emaciated, mutilated, innocent hostages.

Those of them they haven’t already killed, that is.

No decent, honourable Scot would offer up his women folk and kids for slaughter while skulking deep underground. We’re better than that. So why aren’t you?

Andy Ellis

@Geri

How many countries has China invaded? Iran? India? Venezuela?

It’s not a sin to be pig ignorant Geri: it IS a sin to be as proud of it as you appear to be. A mentally deficient chimp with Google access could figure out a list of the countries invaded by your pet dictatorships. To save us the time waiting for you to reach that intellectual level, here’s a list:

China invaded South Korea in 1950, Tibet in 1959, India (twice in 1962 and 1967), Vietnam 1979. China is also involved in imperialist aggression against Taiwan and in the South China Sea against the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia and fought a border conflict with the USSR in Manchurua in 1969.

Venezuela’s leadership is currently threatening to invade and annex 2/3 of Guyana.

India has fought 5 wars since independence: with Pakistan over Kashmir in 1947-48, with China in 1962, with Pakistan in 1965, and again in 1971 and 1999.

Time to read up on your history Geri: don’t be embarrassed if you need help with the multi syllable words or if your lips still move when you’re reading. Better that than making more of a fool of yourself on here than usual.

Geri

They’re occupied by a foreign force you fcking moron.

They shouldn’t need to hide anywhere & according to international law they have every right in the world to defend themselves against their oppressors.

Take yer ill educated propaganda pish elsewhere. Even figures recorded by I themselves show they haven’t suffered anywhere near the deaths they claim at the hands of Palestinians. The whole reason they took hostages was to negotiate the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians detailed for no good reason languishing in torture jails.

So their response was to just mow down innocent, unarmed civilians indiscriminately or throw them live off buildings, or publicly humiliate & break them with R*people, you sick fck. Over 200 official UN killed too. Don’t tell me, we’re they terrorists too? Hiding a tank in their backpack?

The reason their neighbours don’t help is because they bought apples from the US cart before – flee, we won’t hurt you, you can come back later – only to be told they’ve no right to return at all.

“Your side” the side of common decency & the right of a ppl to live in peace in the State they’ve been promised for over 70 yrs & countless votes at the UN.

The Americans have given jack shit to the world but mayhem. But that’s not surprising. They’ve no culture or history but theft. Its all they know. A ppl who have earned nothing see the value in nothing.

“According to UNICEF, 1000 kids die every day from dirty drinking water. Why’s that not geno-cide?”

Tell America there’s oil, gas, precious metals & minerals & they’ll be there in a shot. Or maybe they & their colonial buddies are already there looting the country dry as the indigenous ppl look on.

The whole reason I, along with its colonising buddies, wants to clear the whole region is Oil, Gas & Water. The UN ruled they’d need to share & it infuriated them onto a killing spree.

They’re war criminals & their crimes will catch up with them. Those mass graves of children with missing organs just gives a tiny glimpse of the horrors happening there.

You can see why Nazi Germany happened with racist sick feckers like you around spouting yer blatant ill educated lies that doesn’t have a shred of evidence but the foreign media told you so it must be true. Ya sap.

No wonder the Nazis

Campbell Clansman

Andy, are you sure that “Geri” is an actual person?
Rather than some computerized AI comment-generator that is stuck on the “Stupid” and “Leftist” settings?

If “Geri” is an example of the Indy movement, no wonder the movement’s going nowhere.

Geri

*yawns*

Do we have anything current?

Taiwan belongs to China. That’s official UN ruling in international law.
What started those wars? Was it the The US with absolutely no business being there noising up the region for a spot of trouble?

I noticed they’re disputes with neighbours. Not setting up 800 military bases all over the world. Try reading what I said.

Andy Ellis

@Geri 7.49 pm

*yawns*

Scotland belongs to the UK. That’s the official UN ruling in international law. T

That’s how it works in “Geri world” apparently.

If Scotland is entitled to self determination, then so is Taiwan, or Tibet, or the bits of Kasmir the Chinese annexed might prefer to be part of an independent Kasmiri state or even India rather than China. Who are you to deny them?

I did read what you said. You asked what countries they had invaded and gave you a list of those they had invaded. The fact you don’t like the facts doesn’t render them any less true.

I doubt even the most determined Wolfie Smith cafe marxist can pin the Chinese invasions of India, Vietnam, Tibet and South Korea on anything other than Chinese aggression and imperialism. And of course, their involvement in the Korean War was fighting against the UN. Awkward one, that eh?

Try reading over what you post before you hit send: you seem a tad overwrought given the barely literate state of your output above.

Of course that could just be the Bucki and Benilyn cocktail kicking in.

Andy Ellis

@Campbell 7.43pm

It’s not altogether impossible that Geri is in fact a paid asset of Uncle Vlad sat in their kecks in a basement in Omsk.

Sadly I fear such delusional dregs do actually exist in Scotland: there has always been a leavening of tankies on the extremes of Scottish politics, in the unions and far left of the Labour party. They really do believe this stuff.

They’re the type who used to make excuses for the old USSR and go on fraternal visits to the GDR.

Doubtless Geri’s hard drive will already have been examined by those who want to check on the activities of hostile state actors and their useful idiots amongst us. I doubt their anonymity in here is much of a barrier.

I doubt the mainstream movement takes any of these dingbats seriously as they represent such a miniscule proportion of the public. Their bile and disinformation still needs to be called out however. 🙂

Mia

“So why aren’t you?”

I see that, as your whataboutery failed to launch, you have dived further down the bottom of the barrel in search of some good old psychological blackmailing. How far down the sewer are you planning to go next? A few doses of bullying, perhaps?

Save it. You have fooled no one, continue to fool no one and will fool no one.

The terrorist, apartheid, genocidal state you are so in thrall of will be brought to heel sooner or later. Not by me, of course, but by some powerful country that is not in its pocket. Their overused mantras of “we have the right to defend ourselves” or everybody who criticises us is an anti-s are not sticking any longer. What they have been doing is absolutely sickening at every possible level. Subhuman even.

When somebody is slaughtering children in the way they have done, they lose all credibility, all sympathy, all respect and the moral high ground. When somebody is deliberately starving and slaughtering pregnant women and children in the way they have done, they can no longer portray themselves as the victims because victims are not.

Andy Ellis

As Maya Angelou notes: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time”. It never takes long for the usual suspects to out themselves of course, but surely even by their sickeningly low standards BTL in here, labelling those you disagree with as subhuman is a new low.

It is of course the classic red flag of zealots through history. If one can dehumanise the opposition, they are already firmly on the path from burning books to burning people.

I can’t say I’m really surprised to see it, although I’d perhaps have expected it from one of the more potty mouthed moonhowlers rather than from Mia, our very own resident sufferer from terminal logorrhea.

As our French friends say: “Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue.”

Alf Baird

Andy Ellis @ 17 pm

“delusional dregs do actually exist in Scotland”

Colonialism depends on ‘debasing the colonized’ (Memmi), an yer daein a guid job.

Geri

#AskAndy

“If Scotland is entitled to self determination, then so is Taiwan, or Tibet, or the bits of Kasmir the Chinese annexed might prefer to be part of an independent Kasmiri state or even India rather than China. Who are you to deny them?”

I’m not denying them anything. The difference is I don’t think it’s my business to go storming that country with military, weapons, security services, with paid plants to fck up & overthrow elected governments & fund terrorist organisations to cause civil unrest unlike YOU & yer Uncle Sam pals colonising most of the world & have the audacity & arrogance to think you’re in the right.

Every country has its problems. Its for those countries populations to bring change, not some foreign fuckwits. But we can drop the act they’re only looking out for ppl. They’re not. Taiwan makes world class chips that no one else can & your mob wants their mitts on them. So drop yer pish those poor ppl need saving.

Unlike Scotland, Taiwan is autonomous & has fck all desire or inclination to be independent bar a few of Uncle Sam’s roasters sent in to noise up a faction for separation.

‘South China sea’s the clue is in the name. What is aircraft carriers from the US & UK doing there crashing into everything or running a ground? Taking in the scenery?

I notice you have fck all to add to the convo but petulant insults with a Scottish slant. An alleged founding member of Alba too. You’re in no position to lecture anyone about the Yes movement. The bile you spout on here doesn’t gather much support except from yer yoon pals. & Do fuck off with yer threats. I bet you have already done yer civic duty ya curtain twitching fuckwit.

“I doubt the mainstream movement takes any of these dingbats seriously as they represent such a miniscule proportion of the public.”

Touche pal. We know, officially, that the mainstream YES movement doesn’t take you seriously either. You are as Toxic to Alba as Sturgeon is to the SNP. Its almost like yer a Brit nat spoiler. It wouldn’t surprise me. We seem infested by your sort.

Geri

#Ask Andy

Your chums, with your blessings, call for the extermination of an entire people. They’re already on record as calling an entire people less than human, cockroaches, animals & use offensive Nazi language calling it their final solution, to every single last one of them as they insult everyone at the UN for daring to tell them to stop their sickening atrocities & war crimes.

You are in no position to call anyone sickening. Fck off ya hypocrite & go clutch yer pearls elsewhere. You have a fckd up world view & no one is buying the victim pish or the anti s pish either to excuse blatant barbarism. That free pass has expired .

Andy Ellis

@Geri 9.19pm

Unlike Scotland, Taiwan is autonomous & has fck all desire or inclination to be independent bar a few of Uncle Sam’s roasters sent in to noise up a faction for separation.

“A poll released by the Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation yesterday showed 48.9 percent of Taiwanese support obtaining formal national independence, while 26.9 percent support maintaining the “status quo” and 11.8 percent support unification with China.

Support for Taiwanese independence topped support for maintaining the “status quo” by 22 percentage points and Chinese annexation by 37 percentage points, foundation chairman Michael You (???) said.

An overwhelming majority of respondents aged 20 to 44 voiced hope that Taiwan can declare independence in the future, he added.”

link to taipeitimes.com

Facts, eh?

Mia

“labelling those you disagree with as subhuman is a new low”

Not near as low as attempting to defend the murdering, slaughtering, disemboweling, mutilation and emaciation of children and pregnant women carried out by a terrorist, rogue, apartheid, murderous, and genocidal state which has become completely out of control and, yet, despite viciously killing civilians as it has been doing, is filled with such level of cowardice and deceitfulness that still attempts to full everyone by portraying itself as the victim.

“What they have been doing is absolutely sickening at every possible level. Subhuman even”

Those were my words, which I stand by. It seems Mr Ellis and Hatey McFace are taking turns in diving to the bottom of the sewer because Mr Ellis is now deliberately attempting to twist my words.

Mr Ellis if you got a PhD, I am sure you can at least read. It is the ACTION that I have called subhuman, not the individual. And I called it subhuman because it is not in the human nature to deliberately kill, mutilate, disembowel, and starve children, even toddlers and babies, to death and deprive them of drinking water. It is beyond sickening and goes against nature.

Mr Ellis and Hatey McFace, you seem awfully desperate to defend the terrorist, rogue, apartheid, murderous and genocidal state and falling over yourselves to justify its continuous violation of international law, its murdering, slaughter, emaciation and disemboweling of children and UN workers. Why is that? Are you also in its pocket?

Geri

What’s yer point caller?

Taiwan can be independent if the choose. They don’t need colonisers storming in like the SAS to cause a war
That is the business of China & Taiwan to discuss. Not colonisers. Taiwan belongs to China. The US & UK have zero business there.

They should ask Obama & Clinton to interfere. Tell them they’re “Better Together” eh? No, thought not.

All these fake actors wishing other countries their independence & spreading democracy but aren’t two minutes denying it to everyone else they’ve already colonised.

Taiwan wouldn’t be independent because Uncle Sam would do what it always does. It’d set up home permanently & rob it blind. The Chinese have first hand experience of exactly how that ends.

& You think this fake concern flies with anyone? Well, maybe it does with you cause yer a Brit nat conditioned to zip up the back.

What is this Western utopia that needs spreading? Their own countries are in dire need & pish poor. Start helping them. But that’s not what they’re interested in is it? Its other countries resources. Good news tho. The world isn’t taking it any longer.

Geri

Mia

“And I called it subhuman because it is not in the human nature to deliberately kill, mutilate, disembowel, and starve children, even toddlers and babies, to death and deprive them of drinking water. It is beyond sickening and goes against nature.”

Well said.

There are even ex servicemen & high ranking generals absolutely sickened by what they are seeing & say they don’t know how they sleep at night. Those pilots dropping bombs on innocent civilians as they try run for cover.

There is no excuse, none. Only a sick, racist individual could even attempt to justify it. As Alf has often said, colonialism is rooted in racism. The Palestinians are the wrong colour so it’s okay.

Their crimes will catch up with them. There is no statute of limitations for war crimes & we already know the ‘I was only following orders’ line doesn’t work either.

They’ve no justification for mowing down unarmed civilians IN THEIR OWN TERRITORY & denying them of their basic human rights.

The ICJ is put on notice. Shape up or ship out. It doesn’t take over a year & countless footage, to uphold the law without fear or favour.

I is finished. It already a pariah state & it’s taken Its buddies down with it. Its only a matter of time before it eats itself. Its shown it can never exist in peace.

Geri

“It’s not altogether impossible that Geri is in fact a paid asset of Uncle Vlad sat in their kecks in a basement in Omsk.”

I’m not but I’ll take that as a compliment. The only adult on the world stage with patience to deal with fantasist fckwits on a daily basis. Remember when everyone from the West proclaimed he was unhinged & psychotic? Turns out they were talking about themselves. Lots of projection as per usual.

Nope, I follow the UN live & news outside of Britnat bullshit hour TV. You should try it sometime before your sort get it shut down. Lavrov absolutely nailed it at the UN as always reciting a whole litany of Uncle Sam’s destabilisation of the ME that’s still not recovered & the EU. Blowing up Nordstream gets a mention too. Various countries endeavors to work together in peace & harmony sabotaged by the Yanks & the Britnats get a mention too, where they make promises cause they think it sounds better in English LMAO!

looks like they may have intel the Skrpals were the unfortunate victims of them too cause he wouldn’t make that accusation lightly.

Oh dear, nothing is going to plan for the colonisers back at the UN. 70 yrs Palestine has waited for its state that never comes.

James

…….*yawn*…is that the time already? I’ve just emerged from the darkened room, and, my goodness, what a stooshie!
I am pleased to report that my kitty’s litter tray is still stocked with Daily Heil. Anyhoo….

The Yoons seem to be circling the wagons, flecking the entire site with spittle!! What on earth could be spooking them? [Keep up the good work Geri/Mia!] Is it a full moon?

They were quiet for a few days. musta been on a refresher course? Glasgow Uni? [“four legs good, two legs BETTER!”]
Presumably the site prick and AskAndy are in their restraints now, having been spoon-fed their BBC news and nite nurse… Bless.

[Isn’t it reassuring, though, that this wee site is deemed dangerous enough to be allocated half a dozen plus bad actors from the 77th? There’s hope for us yet, amigos!]

Addendum;
Dunno why, but I had a disturbing dream in the darkened room picturing AskAndy and the site prick, on their knees upon seeing the white flash in the sky screaming “thank you NATO!” …. two roasters roasted….sadly along with the rest of us. Gawd bless amehca.

Geri

How sick is the US & I?

They’re not only funding Nazis in U they’ve added another two belters, al -qaida & Isis are being funded now too.

The Haz leader they’ve just assassinated, beloved by Christians & Muslims alike, defeated these US factions in Lebanon & now they’re back. Those wounded are being treated in I hospitals.

Yet according to I & US, everyone is a fcking terrorist but them.

Glad to see over half the UN walk out when Yahoo appeared on stage. Why isn’t he arrested? There is a warrant out.
The UN isn’t buying his pish God gave him Lebanon too.

P told the West yrs ago exactly who was funding Isis but he was dismissed as an eejit. (Press conference still available on YouTube) Now they’ve been deployed to Lebanon with American weapons.

Its clear Cackling Clinton is in charge of Biden. Those terrorist groups were her favourite go-to for a bit of mayhem.

I’ll bet our resident roasters will no doubt have a good attempt at an excuse. I can’t wait to read it..

Hatey McHateface

James is always excited thinking about blokes on their knees. Always gets him thinking about his prick too.

James

Aw, Johnny, dinna fash, you’ll always be my favourite prick.

Hatey McHateface

Mia

There’s a war on. Save your virtue signalling for those who care. And to borrow a phrase, there’s Damn few, and they’re a’ deid.

Like me, you’ve been lucky so far. Nobody has ever come at you with the determined objective of expunging your existence, and the existence of those you care about.

Should that unlucky day ever come to pass, you’ll change your tune.

And don’t insult my intelligence, and that of the other readers here, by pretending you’ll prioritise other family’s kids and relatives over your own. Not when it’s kill or be killed.

Meantime, though, you need to give it a rest. All you’re doing right now is demonstrating yet again how completely unfit grassroots Indy is to deal responsibly and maturely with the real world.

The real world as it is, not as you would like it to be. The real world an Independent Scotland will have to survive in, and hopefully prosper in.

Robert Hughes

@ Geri

A whole slew of arse-kicking posts ,above , sista – likewise @ Mia

Personally , I don’t engage directly with ghouls like Main who exult in the pain, suffering & death of other humans & know-(fuck)-all presumptive ” voice of the majority ” bores like Ellis , who , like the Party he supports , is not only incapable of thinking outside the box but is not even aware he/they are in a box . A box labelled ” For Dreary Thoughts Only ” : and has the gall to feign moral outrage at the term ” subhuman ” being applied ( correctly ) to the monstrous actions of the ” most moral army in history ” whilst he and his creepy wee sidekick have been calling people they don’t like ” Orcs ” , ie subhuman , for the last 2+ years

I imagine in their warped moral universe that’s acceptable ’cause , that pair , like the disgusting regimes they support , are superior beings whose judgement/position on all matters is infallible .

The torrents of blood inundating the M.E & E.Europe are not sufficient to slake the death-thirst of such people* ; they would rather see those torrents become oceans , than admit the breathtaking hypocrisy/lunacy of the horrors whose flags they wave and every death-dealing action they applaud .

* as long as they , themselves are nowhere near the carnage they cheer from their comfy sofas . natch .

Anton Decadent

For those wondering about people in the independence movement having ulterior motives.

link to archive.ph

Mia

“There’s a war on”

For it to be a war BOTH SIDES must be armed to comparable levels. I only see one side, the side of the terrorist state, armed to its teeth by its proxies USA and the UK.

If both sides are not armed and only one is, incidentally the one that is the actual aggressive, serial invader of territory that is not its own, the one that is armed to its teeth and the one that is deemed by those it has in its pocket to be the only one that “can defend itself”, then it is not a war.

It is a form of disgusting state sponsored genocide with the purpose of exterminate a people using brutal force to steal somebody else’s country, land and resources.

I am repulsed by what I see. I am repulsed for the puppets the US and UK so called governments have become, not only allowing this genocide and attacks by this terrorist state over other sovereign countries to continue, but actually abusing their positions of power and going against their countries’ population to actively sponsor it.

I actually wonder who is governing the UK today and if it is in fact that terrorist state and its proxi-USA puppet who are, rather than those who should be: the people of the UK.

“Nobody has ever come at you with the determined objective of expunging your existence, and the existence of those you care about”

Like the terrorist, apartheid, murderous, vicious, rogue state has been relentlessly doing for decades, by exterminating innocent P children, toddlers, babies and pregnant women, you mean?

No, thank goodness no. But that does not mean I can or I have to simply look the other way and ignore it, never mind accept it.

“And don’t insult my intelligence, and that of the other readers here, by pretending you’ll prioritise other family’s kids and relatives over your own. Not when it’s kill or be killed”

Yet another of your pathetic attempts at whataboutery.

“All you’re doing right now is demonstrating yet again how completely unfit grassroots Indy is to deal responsibly and maturely with the real world”

And another pathetic attempt at psychological blackmailing.

I have already told you that your poor attempts at whateboutery, psychological blackmailing and now soft verbal bullying to deflect from the issue are fooling no one.

“The real world as it is, not as you would like it to be”

YOu mean that everybody and their dog simply has to accept that this murderous, apartheid, terrorist, rogue state is above the law that everybody else has to abide by?

or are you daring to suggest that it is that terrorist, murderous, apartheid, rogue state the only one that gets to dictate what is right and wrong at world level and what the rest of us, who live elsewhere, must accept as dogma even when it does not stand up to the minimum level of scrutiny?

That is not the real world. That is a dystopian version of the world that does not belong and is not acceptable in this century other than for those unprincipled, cowardly and morally corrupt individuals who reside happily in the pockets of that rogue state.

Campbell Clansman

Mia: For it to be a war BOTH SIDES must be armed to comparable levels.

“Mia” (or the comment-bot (obviously set to the “stupid comment” level) that churns out comments using the name “Mia”) has hit a new low in IGNORANCE.

Mia

“IGNORANCE”

Putting the word in capital letters does not make it any more true. It simply puts emphasis on your lack of argument.

It does not matter how many of you keep diving to the bottom of the sewer looking for more examples of psychological blackmailing, bullying and whataboutery to deploy to deflect attention from the despicable actions of this rogue state.
You are fooling no one.

It has become evident beyond any reasonable doubt that using the excuse of “being at war”, despite knowingly acting like shooting starved fish in a barrel and deliberately murdering innocent, unarmed civilians, particularly children, is the faux shield this rogue state and the morally corrupt actors in its pocket have been used to cowardly hide behind so they can fabricate a “justification” in the eyes of the world and their own, for their sponsored genocide.

Even real wars have a code of conduct that this rogue state seems to think it is above of:

“Rule 89.
Violence to Life
Rule 89. Murder is prohibited.

Murder of civilians and prisoners of war was included as a war crime in the Charter of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds” of civilians and persons hors de combat”

From ICRC Database, Customary IHL , Violence to Life, Accessed 29 September 2024.

Over 200 UN workers have been murdered by this rogue state since October 2023. How many more hundreds will be allowed to be murdered by this rogue state before the international community gets up from its supine position, stands upright and brings to heel this out of control bully?

Geri

‘The real world ‘ is absolutely sickened too & has been for months at various UN emergency meetings & sessions. Its reaching its crescendo tho & it’s been a car crash for the West as each country takes their spot on the podium at this yrs UN summit. Even Saudi walking out when it came time for the war criminal to try punt his new vision from God with his wee Blue Peter maps he made earlier. The new Moses.

The West is a minority. To listen to Hinge & Bracket you’d think they were the majority who invented the modern world & everyone else is uncivilised heathens still rubbing stones together.

Anton

Yes, the Tories have been trying desperately to bring in the antisemitism pish that is flooding Westminster. The same groups that went after Corbyn & anyone else who speaks against I. Those groups should be punted tae fck out of Scotland & Holyrood. The Tories also had the nerve to host a wee jamboree at Holyrood with weapon manufacturers before public backlash forced it to be cancelled. I see he is now leader of the Tories in Scotland so we can take from that he’s on the payroll.

Geri

Clanger Clansman

You are more likely the bot around here. You never appear to make sense or offer any pearls of wisdom.

Just that Indy support is dead, a few insults to long term posters & some encouraging bullshit to yoons.

Go as yer handlers to add a personality add-on.

Even Alexa ‘Sorry, I don’t have the answer to that question’ has more personality than you..

Anton Decadent

@Geri, I absolutely agree, our political parties, media, advertising, academia, publishing, the Arts, Shawny Boy referenced this in his Sturgeon Messiah video, and charity sector etc being controlled by a hidden hand is hugely detrimental to every country this is happening in. The involvement of FE shows that every party is affected by this.

You may remember that I went and looked up who was actually running the crossparty anti Islamophobia group in Scotland and found that it was a Dear Fellow Whites type academic who had received literally millions of pounds in grants and who was boasting about one of his students being active in getting men in dresses into womens spaces.

John

The former County Hall across the road is now an IDF hq. The derelict county Chief of Police town house nearby has become a Mossad Social Club.
Is this southern England “settlement “ ?
Seeing as people are spouting shite, thought I would join in .
The UK state broadcaster do seem a bit IDFy though.

Campbell Clansman

Mia: For it to be a war BOTH SIDES must be armed to comparable levels.

By this silly standard, the Scottish War against Longshanks wasn’t a war, because Longshanks had contingents of armored knights and longbowmen, and the Scots didn’t.
Wallace and Bruce sure thought they were in a war. As have all the historians of the last 700 years. But “Mia” (and “Geri”) knows different!

Geri

Don’t be a space cadet.

The Palestinians don’t have an army, an air force, billions of dollars of weapons, drones, surveillance nukes, dome, or a superpower on its knees blowing it sideways.

They’re fighting unarmed civilians. That’s how big & clever they are. Its a war crime under international law.

So are those other eejits in U. Its a crime to shoot soldiers in the back when they don’t want to fight.

Geri

Anton

‘academic who had received literally millions of pounds in grants and who was boasting about one of his students being active in getting men in dresses into womens spaces.’

Sorry I must’ve missed that. I don’t know what academic you mean.

Yes I agree there are forces at work. Sectarianism has always been the British way & as Catholic & protestant are on the wane here I can see them look to introduce a new wave of sectarianism with a whole new set of actors ready to fill the void for some civil unrest…

Mia

“By this silly standard….”

More whataboutery from you. You are still not fooling anyone and getting rather boring now.

The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has quite a few very interesting and heart-wrenching articles on the recent assaults to civilians committed by the rogue state.

If you insist in continuing to bore us all with your whataboutery, I will happily reply to you or to your keen sewer-diving colleagues with a quote from a different article from that website each time.

This is the one I have selected as the opening salvo:

“UN expert shocked by death of another P- doctor in I-[redacted] detention”

It was published on 24 September 2024 on the website of The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR). I accessed it today, 29 September 2024.

Including the title, the quote is verbatim from the article with the exception of the following:

the name of the aggressor rogue state, was redacted and substituted by I-[redacted]

the name of the oppressed territory was also redacted and substituted by P-.

for the name of localities under attack by the rogue state, only initials were included.

Here is the quote:

“”“On the cusp of the one-year anniversary of the genocide, I continue to be shocked at I-[redacted]’s blatant disregard for the right to health in G and the rest of the occupied territory,” said Tlaleng Mofokeng, UN Special Rapporteur on the right to health.

“Dr. Ziad Eldalou is the third doctor confirmed to have died while being detained by I-[redacted] since 7 October 2023.”

Eldalou was an internal medicine physician at Al Shifa Hospital, located in G City. He was detained along with other healthcare workers, while on duty at Al Shifa Hospital on 18 March 2024, during a raid by I-[redacted] Forces. He reportedly died on 21 March 2024 while in detention.

He is one of more than 885 healthcare workers reportedly killed in G and the WB since 7 October 2023. This includes nurses, paramedics, doctors, and other medical personnel. Many more have been injured. The World Health Organization reported 1,043 health attacks in the G Strip, WB, and East Jerusalem since 7 October 2023.

“I-[redacted] must stop destroying and hindering the already limited functioning of the health system in P-, by protecting healthcare workers,” Mofokeng said.

“The practice of medicine is never a crime during conflict – but targeted killing of healthcare workers is,” the expert said. “I-[redacted] must stop.”

The Special Rapporteur said the targeting of healthcare workers and healthcare facilities contravenes the fundamental right of individuals to access essential healthcare services, a matter of acute significance during times of conflict, and may constitute a war crime.

According to the World Health Organization, at least another 128 healthcare workers remain in custody after being arbitrarily detained by I-[redacted] forces while on duty.

“A people’s inability to fully exercise their right to self-determination impacts the enjoyment of all their fundamental rights, including the right to health,” Mofokeng said”

End of quote

According to their website, The OHCHR is is “the leading United Nations entity in the field of human rights, with a unique mandate to promote and protect all human rights for all people”

So, 885 healthcare workers murdered by the rogue state in violation of international law and 128 “arbitrarily detained”, yet, the rogue state and the morally corrupt politicians in its pocket continue to demand from us all that we see it as “the victim”.

Young Lochinvar

Well it looks like Ben’n’jerrys Netflixyahoo is set on getting into a fight with ALL his neighbours, funded by evangelical Uncle Sam (actively seeking the coming of The Rapture) and cling-ons like Gwobal Bwitain – currently using pensioners heating money to help fund the fighting.

Thank goodness Israel doesn’t have nuclear weapons!!

Oh, wait..

Alf Baird

Mia @ 3:50 pm

“A people’s inability to fully exercise their right to self-determination impacts the enjoyment of all their fundamental rights”

The SNP Scottish Government would surely have been better contacting The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) to deal with ongoing violations of the human rights / prevention of self-determination of Scots rather than depend on any dubious S.30 order or the latest Dugdale-Noon scheme to leave Scotland’s constitutional future in the hands of colonial governors like Ian Murray.

Just we well we have Liberation.scot willing to take this route.

Mia

@ Alf Baird

Absolutely. That paragraph in the original article is one of the reasons why I chose to quote it.

Our problem is that it is not really “Westminster” or the UK gov who has been denying Scotland self-determination. It was Sturgeon and Yousaf’s SNP who did.

Both commanded majorities of anti-union MPs, which could have flexed their political muscle if they had wanted. At the end of the day, both the parliament of Westminster and the UK gov are subordinates to the treaty of union, not above it.

The ones who are holding Scotland’s “reserved” powers are neither the UK government or England MPs. It is Scotland’s MPs who are, therefore there was nothing, other than themselves, stopping them bringing those powers back to Scotland.

So, yes, you are absolutely right. Just as well that we have Liberation.scot willing to take this route, because the current SNP never will. They don’t have either the guts or the will to do so.

The latest Dugdale-Noon scheme appears to be a rehash of the Act of Union Bill [HL], 9 Oct 2018. It seems to me they are desperate to plan some fudge where, at least on surface, Scotland’s ability to unilaterally terminate the ToU is removed so they can “formalise” making of Scotland permanently subordinated to Westminster. It is a con.

Coming back to the article, we have several examples in Scotland that demonstrate how colonialism is damaging the health of the people of Scotland:

1. Higher rate of drug-deaths in Scotland compared with England, our “equal partner”

2. Higher rate of alcohol deaths in Scotland compared with England

3. Higher rate of obesity in Scotland compared with England

To cite a few examples.

Despite thieving away from us the energy produced in Scotland without paying a penny for it, and despite temperatures here being colder, the imperial masters force us to pay more up here for the commodity of using the energy produced in our own country than what they are charged in England for taking it away from us. If that is not abuse of the highest order, what is.

There will be a rise on a raft of health conditions associated to insufficient home heating after the colonial master in n10 removes the winter fuel subsidy from our elderly pensioners, while he sends billions of taxpayers’ money to U so they can continue their war. Because, of course, for the colonial master, the continuation of that war trumps any need to ensure Scotland’s pensioners have sufficient heating and Scottish children sufficient food.

It is all a question of warmongering priorities, isn’t it?

Geri

Yes. We must be the only union in the whole wide world that stays to remain poorer, not better.

& another is the recent pandemic where Scots were told by Bojo the clown that we should all be on our knees thanking him for vaccines or he wouldn’t have given them to us at all. He’d have just loved that.

All while Sunak was telling us to piss off & fund furlough ourselves. Aye, let’s hunt down our sofas & have a whip round while those eejits were dipping the Treasury for all their mates.

Hatey McHateface

Mia 3:50

Cracker of a post.

A hospital in U targeted by R today. A double tap. The second strike timed to get the rescuers and medics responding to the first.

Spout us several hundred words of outrage about that.

Or scweem “whataboutery”. That will have the merit of giving the readers more time to do something productive or interesting.

Geri

Shitface, nice try at spin there..

Not a hospital. A health resort & was targeted because it was a temporary base full of foreign mercenaries.

So rent-a-terrorist was hit.

Its tragic. All this death & destruction for absolutely no reason. U would never, ever have gotten into the EU & definitely not into NATO. Those two organisations would’ve had to break every single rule in their book to allow membership & that simply wouldn’t be accepted across the EU member states.

It was all a lie. A carrot dangled to keep the battering ram against R going. Just cannon fodder for its colonial masters.

But dry yer eyes, we all know you couldn’t give a shit because racist pricks like you see them ALL as Orcs and therefore dispensable.

Confused

Geri, have some respect – the beeb even put on schwindlers list in the striped pyjamas tonight, to get our minds right and remember the 8M yookrainianists who were holodomorised by bolshevik jews all in the name of worshipping the talmud and minding their own business.

In any case the talmud tells us if a non jewish child may grow up to harm a jew, then one must kill the child, hence the actions of the most moral army in the world hitting every single hospital in g4za with precision weapons, and also on their way to hitting every school … blowing up 8 office blocks to take out one guy is also thusly a justified act of self defence. (You can also bum 3 year olds, and it’s their fault, since they are coming on to you.)

– amalek covers this, s’allright.

Look on the bright side, with enough of these outrageous provocations, the punkass servant countries – USA and britain, will be over there fighting for their masters; I can’t think of a better type of person to pay the ultimate price worth paying. Maybe even chickenhawk wankers like Ellwood.

Hatey McHateface

@ Geri says: 29 September, 2024 at 11:18 pm

racist pricks like you

Aw, I was shooting for first prize – “Fascist”! Still “racist” is a very creditable second.

As for “prick”, assuming you’re a girly (as I do), I can kind of sympathise with your obsession. Not that long since you were greetin about “endless orgies”. I hope you score soon.

see them ALL as Orcs and therefore dispensable

Haha, I do, just like their Tsar in fact. Historically, culturally and politically, “meat grinder” tactics are their preferred MO.

Afterwards, they like to lament the spectacular casualties and blame the “enemy”. But it’s always their own leadership really at fault.

Muscleguy

IF Scotgov properly informed the international community that in no uncertain terms they were absolutely serious about a plebiscite and that any vote for a signed up Independence party would count so they could be sure it wasn’t just an SNP party political stunt as per usual when they talked about Indy.

Then, It is likely we would get Recognised if the result of the vote was clearly for Independence. It is Recognition, especially by the countries surrounding the UK which would via Realpolitiks bring WM to the negotiating table.

Muscleguy

But then Swinney is not the leader for that scenario. He would if the vote was won negotiate just a form of Devo Max including keeping Sterling.

When the UNDC come to town He will have a choice: to be the FM who leads us to Independence or resign in favour of someone who would.

Achnababan

Whenever I hear the names ‘Kezia Dugdale’ and ‘Stephen Noon’ I cringe – imposters and chancers in equal measure. Noon is more deplorable through as he has been deploying his bull shit under the guise of a thinker in the ‘intellectual’ wing of the ‘independence-leaning’ SNP for decades. Both are not to be trusted EVER!


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