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As it is and when it was

Posted on September 04, 2021 by

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    872 to “As it is and when it was”

    1. Robert Louis says:

      Oh, excellent cartoon. Just excellent. Like holding the mirror of truth up to Nicola Sturgeon’s hypocritical face.

      We were told she was ‘offended’ at being branded ‘anti-English’ by some Tory wastrel in the Scots Parliament thia week, yet when one of her clique called peaceful protestors defending women’s rights Fascists, she says and does nothing. As Usual.

      Honestly, Sturgeon and her inept, bigoted, misogynistic, women-hating cabal, are truly a marvel of self-denial.

      As Robert Burns so aptly put it, a very long time ago,

      ‘O wad some Power the gift tae gie us
      To see oursels as ithers see us!
      It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
      An foolish notion:..

      From, ‘To a Louse’, by Robert Burns.

    2. Geoff Huijer says:

      Nailed it (again).

    3. The Isolator says:

      Wow Chris,they just keep getting better and better.Hopefully the scales are falling from everyone’s eyes.

      @ Robert Louis above.Well said.

    4. Hugh Jarse says:

      Divide and rule. Same as it ever was Chris.
      Just heard on R4.
      Kids need vaccine, to stop them “getting involved with gangs “.

      Monsters walk amongst us.

    5. Dave M says:

      You haven’t missed and hit the wall with this one, Chris!

    6. Captain Yossarian says:

      Robert Louis – well done, the first response of the day and maybe the best?

    7. Willie says:

      A cartoon of what I’d describe as the Queer Hoose.

      And it certainly is that. No doubt about that

    8. In a world where I’d forgotten you
      I found myself forgotten, too
      That’s the danger of believing books
      And all the lies of those thieves and crooks
      We sing intellectual songs of love
      From a stolen pen to a velvet glove.

      As It Is When It Was
      New Order

    9. And spouse says:

      It’s quite sad, the detail Chris, always the detail, the Saltire in the corner!

    10. Mia says:

      Divide and conquer.

      The legacy of 6 long, painful, wasted years of Sturgeon – a pretend feminist, a pretend nationalist, a pretend European, a pretend democrat, a pretend leader, a pretend FM, a pretend doer.

      Even her concern about the virus is pretend – it it wasn’t she would have locked the borders long time ago to stop the virus coming in instead of calling racists to those who at the peak of the pandemic asked for the borders to be closed like it was done in every other sensible country.

      Sturgeon: the Westminster puppet pretending to be something else whose real political mission appears to have been causing division, stopping independence, reverting our autonomy, dilapidating the credibility of our Justice System, eviscerating the credibility of Scotland’s government, shredding to bits the heart of the SNP to stop it beating, to hand over Scotland’s assets to England and to keep the yes movement on a leash.

      How very New Labour.

    11. Ruby says:

      I demand the right to be a racist, an idiot, a transphobe, a bigot, a fascist, a terf, a misogynist, anti-feminist and anything else I fancy without the risk of being jailed for my thoughts.

      At the moment I am predominately anti-cult/cult-phobic.

      Up yer cult!

    12. Astonished says:

      I am now certain sturgeon will become the most hated person in Scotland’s history. The new dundas.

      She had it all – and she threw it away – for virtue signalling liars.

      Have police Scotland done anything yet ? Other than promote and aid racist marches obviously.

    13. North chiel says:

      I hear that she may take over from Steve Clark , as she sits “ top of the EUROPEAN league table” at present re Covid infections . On this form she could easily qualify for “ the World Cup” . Not seeing her fronting too many BBC Covid updates these days ?

    14. Ruby says:

      And spouse says:
      4 September, 2021 at 8:16 am
      It’s quite sad, the detail Chris, always the detail, the Saltire in the corner!


      Saltire is ‘in ribbons’
      Better get that replaced PDQ otherwise that could trigger Paisley’s ‘ligamentophobia’

    15. Andy Ellis says:

      Another belter Chris. It’s beyond sad that a mirror held up to the broader Yes movement today presents something radically different – and less inspiring – than the positive, progressive jamboree we saw in the run up to 2014.

      The Scots are perhaps fissiparious by nature – perhaps every people is. It would be surprising if any nations wasn’t? Perhaps we were kidding ourselves during #indyref1 that it didn’t matter what your individual politics and personal outlook on particular issues was, as long as we all had (to quote the over-used phrase) our “eyes on the prize”?

      Looking back now I wonder at the sense of positivity and inclusiveness and doubt we will ever see its like again. I *think* I speak for quite a few others when I say that I honestly couldn’t stomach campaigning shoulder to shoulder with some of the SNP and Scottish Green cult members given what we’ve learned over the past few years in particular.

      Looking at what has happened to Alex Salmond, to Stu Campbell, Craig Murray, Marion Millar and others, I can no longer say the people behind their persecution represent the kind of Scotland I want to see. If that means independence takes longer because we have to defeat the cultists in charge of the SNP and Scottish Greens – as well as the British nationalist establishment – then so be it.

      I have absolutely no time for those saying that we have to swallow our principles and allow these regressive, misogynistic roasters to dictate the pace and direction of “our” movement. It’s a sad state of affairs: no doubt the usual suspects will be accusing me of being a closet yoon, not a “real” nationalist, etc. etc.

      So be it. There is little point at this stage doing anything more than help Alba establish itself as a party and ensure it doesn’t fall prey to the same faults as the current SNP. We aren’t getting a referendum anytime soon, and it’ll likely be a while until we can do anything significant electorally at Westminster or Holyrood. I hope the SNP and Greens can be changed from within, but the smart money has to be against it.

    16. Shocked says:

      Shows the embarrassing state that Scotland has become.

      We can all thank the New SNP cultists who have brought us here. Where a known criminal, liar and a fraud can squeal to the presiding officer about someone telling the truth, because unfortunately many in the sturgeon cult want independence not because they love Scotland but because they hate the English, meanwhile women wanting to be able to choose not to be examined by a male pervert in a dress are called fascists. The same people that claim women who should be able to own their bodies are demanding that they give them up to some pervert, yes that’s where we are people. Where a man can legally expose his privates to a small girl and be praised for being brave and strong. Well done all.

      The country is a joke, the sooner Holyrood is bulldozed and the shower of jokers and incompetents we call MSP’s are replaced by proper competent people the better.

    17. Nally Anders says:

      Chris, Brilliant toon. Absolutely nailed it.
      Robert Louis, well said.
      All they’ve got is insults and labels. In the absence of reasoned debate or argument all are utterly meaningless.
      Angus Robertson let slip that in SNP terms ‘all that matters is public opinion’. Surprising that over 400 people outside Holyrood, booing at the mention of Sturgeon’s name is conveniently overlooked.
      We used to gather and March for independence now we gather to demonstrate against the SNP administration.
      Strange days.

    18. Morgatron says:

      Just bloody marvelous Chris. As old Telly Surveillance once sang “If a picture could paint a thousand words”

    19. Shocked says:

      @Andy Ellis

      What positivity and inclusiveness?

      Under the slick PR gloss the yes campaign has been largely run by roasters with chips on their shoulders. There is a complete lack of vision and it’s always boiled down to othering them over there rather than creating a positive and competent vision for the future. I knew a few SNP branch heads and they are all committed anglophobes and they’d struggle to muster a brain cell among them.

      Now that the scab is being ripped off and the movement splits the PR gloss is failing to cover what has always been there and it is only going to get worse. The movement has always been dominated by those who shout the loudest and harass their opponents from the limelight, there is a total lack of intellectual thought at the top of the movement. Frauds, liars, criminals, cheats, carpetbaggers, con artists and common thieves are all represented at the top. It’s a bad joke.

      We have got here because New SNP supporters are either completely unable or unwilling to take a critical look at who they are voting for because they have been so distracted by the golden carrot of independence that keeps getting dangled. The greatest heist in Scotland’s history really has been a masterclass in conning people and I cannot see anything changing until we get back control of our legal and justice systems and the ringleaders end up in prison. Meanwhile the idea of independence will continue to wither in the vine. The game is up until we have a total clear out.

    20. John Main says:


      “Locking the borders” won’t keep the virus out.

      As always, your daft inserts detract from the good points you make.

      Change the record.

    21. Breeks says:

      Don’t really like quoting Sun Tzu and the Art of War, frankly because it has a “utility” quote for pretty much every occasion, but one of those quotes runs “If an army is divided and fighting amongst itself, the Leadership is weak”.

      On this occasion, that seems to fit perfectly.

    22. Andy Ellis says:

      @Shocked 9.11 am

      I was referring more to the more positive and inclusive *feel* during #indyref than what we see now or indeed at most points in the last few years. Perahps we were kidding ourselves that most of the movement, most of the time, was left of centre and progressive politically and that we (largely) had the same outlook on issues. That’s proven to be wrong.

      Hitching the Yes movement waggon to the SNP star will come to be seen as a huge strategic mistake I think given what we have subsequently learned about the party. Attempts to reform the SNP from within have obviously failed. That means we have to wean ordinary voters away from dependence on them.

      That can start with highlighting the differences on policy in areas like self-ID, women’s rights, the HCB and failures relating to Covid response. It also needs to build from areas of concern like that to more strategic issues like the SNPs lack of appetite to force the pace with respect to #indyref2 and/or plebiscitary elections, the default acceptance of the stodgy, neo liberal, grey suited managerialism of the Growth Commission, and meek acceptance of a constitutionally subordinate position not just at Westminster, but in Scotland too.

      There has to be a catalyst to start the reaction which defeats the SNP cultists. In my view that can only be a party like Alba: none of the other fanciful plans and proposed popular uprisings/conventions/assemblies and/or repealing of the Union have any realistic chance of success.

    23. Beautiful Chris, just beautiful.

    24. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice on Chris.

      Mike Russell has another column in the National newspaper today, on why he wouldn’t be in the SNP if they were anti-English, no mention of Scottish independence or when a date will be set for it, its basically a page full of waffle on how English friendly the SNP are.

      Of course the SNP’s HCB, shows that the SNP aren’t that friendly towards certain sections of Scottish society, and especially not to pro-indy bloggers, or ex-pro-indy FM’s or AUOB organisers, and women who won’t wheesht, such as Marion Millar.

      Russell in my opinion has now become a laughing stock among the indy community.

    25. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile this Tory government are considering raising NI contributions to 2% to help pay for social care in England, so basically Scots will help fund England’s social care packages, maybe that’s what Russell meant when he said the SNP are very English friendly, after all our wealth has been funding England for centuries now.

    26. Grouse Beater says:

      Nice timing, Chris!

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘SNP and Fascism’:

    27. Shocked says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I get where you’re coming from and it would be possible to think that when you have media luvvies at the Grauniad and elsewhere frothing over the faux civic inclusiveness of sturgeonism but you and I both know (and a skim through many of the comments on here confirms it) that for many Scottish nationalists their main motivation is hatred of other people and need to blame others for their failings. A lifetime of dead end jobs and unemployment has to be blamed on England stealing our oil or treating Scotland like a colony when the real reason is a lot closer to home but cannot be mentioned because to do so would mean taking personal responsibility. Sure life throws everyone tough breaks but I know a lot of people who started with nothing to make a go of it and it always comes down to hard work.

      The NEW SNP has been completely finished in my eyes for a long time. Alex Salmond at least had a plan and he understood that “free” things need to be paid for, sturgeon on the other hand just blames England for everything and offers no solutions. Every single grand plan from the investment bank to a nationalised energy company has fallen on its arse because behind the buzzwords and PR gloss she hasn’t got a fucking clue what she is doing. She was a total failure in her legal career before she got into politics and it shows.

      Sturgeon is the ranty aggressive student politician she has always been, if she was at Uni today she’d have blue hair and be marching up and down in favour of trans rights battling the fascist feminists. Sturgeon isn’t about independence, but rather the ability it gives her to protest 24/7 and claim to be the opposition while enjoying the trappings of power at the same time. Take last week, she actually had the cheek to attend an event about drug addiction while she has presided over the wholesale slaughter of drug addicts that she instructed to start a political fight. The media barely mentioned it, she should have been crucified for the hypocrisy of her behaviour.

      If Scotland had a functioning media sturgeon would have been gone long ago, instead we have a supine and broken shell where the party must not be criticised and anyone who dares to do so face the New SNP attack dogs. One of the reasons I left Twitter was because after the past couple of years we have had in Scotland there are still people who are so psychologically conditioned that they must defend sturgeon at all costs. It’s as if the last few years never happened and we are living in an alternate universe. It’s all very well people mumbling about how we must not become divided but when the yes movement is so broken it’s not even worth saving, if a ref was held tomorrow it would be lost and it will always be lost until there is a coherent and positive vision. As long as the New SNP are in charge that will never happen because they are re about power for powers sake, campaigning for Scotland being independent is just a means to an end rather than a central aim.

    28. David Caledonia says:

      Ignore the people who refuse to live in the real world, I have never met any of these halfwits on my travels around the globe
      I come across them on the news and such, but to be honest, its all attention seeking eejits and some people actually converse with them, my question to those people is

      WHY ?

    29. Breeks says:

      I just have one quibble with Chris’s excellent cartoon, which I’m sorry, maybe just contributes to the acrimony, but that is the false equivalence between what women are standing up to defend, and what the Trans Taliban are trying to tear down.

      There is no equivalence or symmetry in this “debate”, and hard won women’s rights make our society fairer and stronger, and these rights must be defended against threats which come close to being deluded lunacy, if not actual deluded lunacy.

      That it is all a massive distraction from Scottish Independence goes without saying of course, (and that requires it’s own inquiry), but as an ardently pro, (and male), Independentist, I haven’t a moment’s pause or hesitation in siding with the Feminists.

      It seems clear that Feminism has been targeted and provoked quite literally by agent provocateurs, – the same provocateurs who have surreptitiously infiltrated and sown malicious disruption throughout the LBG movements, Feminist movements, the SNP and the Independence Movement, and it is painful to witness the sheer number of dullards and acolytes who are still in denial and choosing to remain blind to this rolling pattern of sabotage and insurrection.

    30. David Caledonia says:

      Am I shocked, not really

      Heard it all before, like an old music album with the needle
      stuck, anyone got anything new to contribute here, if not it
      might be time to go and forget it even exists

    31. Stoker says:

      Thanks, Chris, high standards as usual. If ever a quote was made to fit that cartoon it is this one, placed right across the bottom of the cartoon:

      Breeks says on 4 September, 2021 at 9:18 am
      “Don’t really like quoting Sun Tzu and the Art of War, frankly because it has a “utility” quote for pretty much every occasion, but one of those quotes runs “If an army is divided and fighting amongst itself, the Leadership is weak”.”

    32. Republicofscotland says:

      Yes Chris the extremely England friendly SNP is using odious policies to divide the indy movement, Sturgeon is destroying any chance of Scottish independence from the inside, though she and her vile clique will continue to wave the indy carrots in front of the noses of those who still believe that she’ll deliver it.

    33. Robert Hughes says:


      I agree with most of what you say above but maybe you’re conflating two different issues ….

      The legitimate asking of the question * what effect will the increasing numbers of English residents in Scotland have on any future Indy Ref/Plebiscite Election *

      And outright Anglophobia .

      Even that is bedevilled by the paradox of Scots people who continually moan about * The English * yet voted NO in 2014 ,and would probably do so again , given the chance : many such * confused * people I know personally in the area of the Highlands where I live .

      If that’s not an expression of * Internal Colonisation * what is ?

    34. Robert Hughes says:

      ps ” Internal ” as in the internal psychology of individuals

    35. Republicofscotland says:

      As Sturgeon bemoans the UK not taking enough Afghans, who aided and abetted the invading and occupying forces US/UK in Afghanistan for twenty-years, Scottish children are having to go to soup kitchens with their parents to eat in Glasgow which has the highest levels of deprivation and poverty in Scotland.

      Glasgow’s streets are filthy, Susan Aitken SNP Glasgow city council, denied this when questioned on it by Bernard Ponsonby, libraries and community rooms in the city are also closing, but Sturgeon wants to act like some sort of wealthy ambassador urging more and more folk to come to Scotland, when she can’t or won’t fix the problems at home.

    36. Mia says:

      ““Locking the borders” won’t keep the virus out”

      Yes it does. If you starve the virus of hosts the pandemic ends. It is as simple as that.

      So who is the daft one here, the one that chooses to bury their head in the sand to protect the reputation of an incompetent FM more interested in playing political games than looking after the population, or the fed up one that speaks up?

      In fact, after being proved that neither the vaccines nor natural immunity after infection is stopping infections, it seems that locking the borders in combination with temporary lockdown is the way forward.

      There were points in 2020 after the first lockdown that there were hardly any infections in Scotland. If there were no virus in Scotland, where the fck did it come from then when the reinfections started?
      Where the chinese variant came from?
      Where did the south african variant came from?
      The Kent variant?
      The Spanish variant?
      The italian variant?
      The Brazilian variant?
      The delta variant?
      Did any of those originate in Scotland?
      Did they came to us through the ether?
      In a cloud and then descended on to us with the rain?
      Flying from the moon?
      By virtual reality through our computer, tablet and phone screens?

      No, each and every one of those variants which did not originate in Scotland were brought up here by a host that could cross the border because this woman refused to lock the darn borders.

      The first case in 2020 was reported in Scotland AFTER other countries started to lock their borders and well AFTER the first case was reported in England. Had this woman locked the borders as soon as the first case was detected in England and when the other countries were locking theirs and Scotland would not have seen over 8000 unnecessary deaths to the virus.

      Sorry, but in my view the responsibility of the biggest part of those 8000 unnecessary deaths lies with this woman for putting political games, unionism and the opportunity to lock us down to deny us a referendum and to dismantle the justice system ahead of the interests of Scotland’s citizens.

      If you don’t like the way reality sounds, then try adding sugar to it. But nett time, before you consider trying to lecture me on how the virus propagates, I would advise you to learn your facts first.

      Have a wonderful and virus free day.

    37. formerly Bleak Future says:

      Thanks Chris. A true representation of the New Stonewall National Party.

    38. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon wants vaccine passports for events attended by a lot of people. So that means you won’t need one for future SNP conferences under her leadership.

    39. John Main says:


      Three words.

      Australia. New Zealand.

      Change the record FFS.

      And have a good and virus free day yersel.

    40. stonefree says:

      @ Breeks at 9:18 am

      ” Quoting Sun Tzu and the Art of War,” I thought that too
      Still there a lot of Zen type saying to delve into.

      I quoted Sun Tzu and some dafty , said she didn’t read the Murdoch Press

    41. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As It Is When It Was”

      You missed the first two lines:

      “The streets are so empty at this time of night
      I’d rather walk on my own than fight”


    42. stuart mctavish says:

      Breeks @9:18 am

      Another Sun Tzuism is appear weak when you are strong (and vice versa) so who knows what cunning game they’re playing this time around

      As to Holyrood, I’ve always thought they’re all (reasonably) good pals outside the chamber – and have no problem with that – so my take on the play that allows an English MSP (quite wittily given the context*) to gain publicity based on an alleged complaint of anti English sentiment (despite her privileged position at the expense of any remaining Scottish conservatives in the Dundee area) is simply to remind us all that the words in Chris’s cartoon are not necessarily a reflection of what our politicians think of each other, rather they are indicative of what they are obliged, or even trained, to think of we the people in order to avoid becoming overstressed with the burden of responsibility inherent in the ever increasing orders of micro management held over us.

      *context appears to have been question from Pauline McNeill relating to a song about the famine being over “why don’t you go home” whereas Tess White’s comment can be easily substantiated with reference to a not dissimilar line in our national anthem.

    43. James Che. says:

      Besides the women losing rights division and trans taliban, Chris forgot the division makers calls of anti- Vaxers.

      To make a war you to have people attacking each other….Just make sure one opinion is played against another

      And the Scottish have had ( the lot ) thrown at them over the past few years.

      Decide and conquer.

    44. Elizabeth Hagan says:

      I do not think the SNP & Greens are English friendly. What they are is power mad, divisive & financially greedy. Caring not a jot for the majority of wonderful Scottish people.

    45. robbo says:

      A wee bit of light hearted banter for Sat morn.

      I think that might be the drunk ref Matthew Dale getting carried off at the end of this game by the Rangers training staff. LOL

      Nothing much changes here either- same auld biased bigoted shite over 100 years later.

    46. Mia says:

      “Three words.

      Australia. New Zealand”

      Let me add the two you conveniently forgot:

      “deaths” and “economy”

      Go on, Ronald A Fisher. Read out loud how many deaths for COVID did those two countries have since March 2020 and how it compared with Scotland.

      Let me give you a bitter taster:

      New Zealand: 27 deaths in total at 9:00am of 4 September 2021
      Scotland: 8,154 who had a positive covid test in the previous 28 days. 10,554 if you consider all those who had COVID in their death certificates (Data from 3 September 2021)

      You may think the Scottish citizens are disposable. I most certainly do not.

      Now let’s look at the number of infections. So, Pasteur, how many infections and how both those figures compare to those in Scotland?

      Let’s look at the last published figures, shall we?

      New Zealand: total 3748
      Scotland: total confirmed positive cases 449,780

      449780/3748 = 120 – Scotland saw ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MORE infections than New Zealand

      Mamma mia!!
      Again, you may think that having the population of Scotland ill unnecessary is just an expression of day to day politics. I consider it negligence.

      Now, Mr Keynes, take a look at the economies of those countries and compare it with ours and with the UK union. How much did each of them shrink?

      Let’s take again New Zealand:

      New Zealand’s economy shrank by a whopping 2.9% in 2020.

      Scotland’s economy shrank only by an “infinitesimal” 9.6%

      The UK’s economy shrank by an “undetectable” 9.9%

      9.6/2.9 = 3.3 Scotland’s economy shrank over THREE times more than New Zealand’s

      Sorry, what was what you were saying?


      herald scotland
      “Scottish economy shrank almost 10% last year, finds Holyrood watchdog”
      Tom Gordon, 15 July 2021

      “New Zealand’s economy hits record decline in 2020”

      “UK suffers worst annual economic slump since the Great Frost of 1709, a 9.9% decline”
      Elliot Smith, 12 February 2020

      Scottish government
      “Coronavirus (COVID-19): daily data for Scotland”
      Last updated 3 September 2021

      Ministry of Health New Zealand
      “COVID-19: Current cases”
      Last updated 4 September 2021

    47. The Scottish Cringe is strong today.


      AUOB march next Saturday in Stirling.

    48. Ebok says:

      Climate change, invasions, civil wars, immigration, religion.
      Important issues though they are, there is a lot of wasted energy on these pages on issues that will never be resolved or influenced on Wings, or in Scotland, or in UK.
      The only players in that sphere are the USA, Russia, and China.

      Everyone is putting the cart before the horse. Even yesterday, as I listened to the link sent by Alex for the conference preview, the first topics he raised were the economy, nuclear weapons, and EU.

      Telling voters what priorities are after gaining power is a pipedream until the prospect of gaining power becomes a reality, even a possibility. ALBA is a long way short at the moment, so unless membership and support increase at a rapid rate, we may be too late. My fear is that what I’ve heard so far is not going to cut it.
      Similarly, on Wings, much discussion is on topics already mentioned, or about the catastrophes inflicted on us with the control, lies and corruption of the current regime. We will not expose duplicity by preaching to the converted. So, why keep it ‘in house’?
      The number one priority, by a long way, must be to educate the public, get out into the open what is being done in our names. No one is offering solutions on how to do this, and it is unbecoming to throw a blanket over all SNP 1 & 2 masses by labelling them ‘thick’ or ‘stupid’ or ‘naïve’.
      Most of these folks are poor, have no interest in politics, have been brainwashed all their lives, are taken in by media propaganda, and have never seen any difference to their prospects, no matter who is in power. So why should they care?

      What concerns me is that nothing is being done or proposed to counter the river of insidious propaganda being foisted on us daily.
      I’m nowhere nearly as clever as many of the terrific contributors to Wings, but it struck me a few weeks back when @Breeks said, tongue in cheek, that C4 was up for sale, so why don’t we buy it?
      However, why are we, and by that I mean, Wings/YES/ALBA, not getting information out to the public about what is REALLY happening in Scotland. Focus on things that matter to folk. Why don’t we have regular deliveries of leaflets (I’ve had only one since May – from Tories), why can’t we produce our own newspaper, publish the TRUTH?

      There are so many good points made on here that deserves a wider audience, and similarly so many excellent bloggers who could contribute to leaflets or a newspaper. This country/colony is in dire straits, and unless the message gets out, unless the ‘thick’ public are enlightened, we had better learn how to conform with the New World Order.

    49. ronald anderson says:

      Nice one Chris like the Hovis advert bringing it home to the SNP & Nikla

    50. Mia says:


      Where I wrote

      “Scotland saw ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MORE infections than New Zealand”

      I meant to write

      One hundred and twenty TIMES more infections than New Zealand.

      By the way, I forgot to add

      8,154/27 = 302 – 302 times more Scots died of COVID than New Zealanders.

      I do not know what the rest of you think, but this number of deaths for me is totally unacceptable and beyond negligence. A display of either this FM’s uttermost incompetence or her unwillingness to protect the population. I am not really sure which one is the right one.

      Looking at those figures, it looks like the Scottish people have been sent to the slaughter because this incompetent refused to make use of the power put on her hands to exercise Scotland’s autonomy and lock the darn borders to protect the population.

      It seems that over 8000 Scots had to die under the watch of this FM because of her obsession to maintain the union intact. More than double compared with the figure of those who died during the NI troubles and about 3 times more when you compare it with the Irish war of independence.

      The SNP always tells us that Scotland is underpopulated. Well, sure as hell that allowing over 8000 people to unnecessarily die because this individual could not bring herself to lock the borders is not the way to improve Scotland’s population figures. It does the exact opposite.

      Are we to understand this as another chapter of the clearances?

      Looking at the figures of people who died of covid in Scotland side by side with those of New Zealand, makes you feel sick and, frankly, can only lead to the conclusion that the management of the pandemic in Scotland and the refusal to lock the borders, has been a spectacular and unjustifiable failure of astronomic proportions. Something that should go in the world book of records for political negligence.

      This FM should be held accountable for that failure and all those unnecessary deaths of fellow scots, all happening under her watch.

    51. Hatuey says:

      Well, I seem to misunderstand this week’s cartoon and I don’t know why people are interpreting it as a criticism of Sturgeon.

      I think it’s a criticism of us (you) and the way we (you) have let petty differences divide us (you) instead of remaining focused on the goal of independence.

      Yeah, I know, please don’t bother telling me who caused the divisions; it’s a weak defence at best.

    52. James Che. says:

      Many good points on what contributes to where we are,.

      But the biggest developement in Scotland is, how the Scottish politicians see the Scottish people as their enemy.

      For instance,
      There has been no information leaflets, digital or other forms of messaging that has improved the Scottish people’s lot for years now, just the opposite is happening here,
      Free speech and free information can find you in court or in prison.

      If we want to see good news spread and not be scared to do so as in China or any other despotic country.

      Surely we cannot linger on with this government we have now to the next election,
      They are destroying scotland and subduing it’s people.

      They are eroding the community with ideology, they continue to fight and break apart families, and intrude upon the rights of parents and women.
      How far they succeed will be up to mums and women, as our men folk are not protecting their families,

      Just like women whom took it upon themselves to throw bankers into prison, while men stood back,
      And just like waspi women acted, whom where cheated of years of pension, while their men folk stood back, just like it was women that fought first as suffragettes, while most men thought of women llike the taliban towards women here in Britain,
      it will eventually be the Scottish women that first fight for human rights and to protect their children.

      The men are standing in the background right now here in Scotland, while their women and children are suffering dire future consequences in Scotland.

    53. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rev. Stuart Campbell at 11:24 am.

      You typed,
      ““As It Is When It Was”
      You missed the first two lines:

      “The streets are so empty at this time of night
      I’d rather walk on my own than fight””

      Those two lines reminded me of C@ctus’s posts last year, while he wandered the streets of Glasgow in the early hours.


    54. Red Squirrel says:

      Sturgeon’s Legacy.

    55. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      4 September, 2021 at 12:17 pm

      I think it’s a criticism of us (you) and the way we (you) have let petty differences divide us (you) instead of remaining focused on the goal of independence.


      You seem to be the one that has been focusing most on petty differences between yourself & anti-vaxxers.

      Very sorry to read that you think the issue of women’s rights is petty.

    56. Mia says:

      “I think it’s a criticism of us (you) and the way we (you) have let petty differences divide us (you) instead of remaining focused on the goal of independence”

      I however think Holyrood in the background of the cartoon has a meaning. As it has the fact that the crowds are venting their frustration by shouting at each other outside instead of entering Holyrood to shout a the politicians responsible for all that frustration and division.

      In my opinion the cartoon is telling us three things:

      1. the division of the yes movement is artificially maintained with Holyrood at the core of it

      2. Holyrood as no interest in stopping that division because for as long the crows shout at each other outside, they do not get in to shout at those sitting in Holyrood.

      3. It hasn’t down on us yet that to move forward towards independence it is not towards each other who we have to channel our anger, but rather towards the incompetents, political frauds and glacialists sitting in Holyrood and sowing division in order to survive politically.

      Let’s not forget that Tories, labour and libdems only keep today their seats in that parliament because Sturgeon and her praetorian guard repeatedly asked SNP voters to waste their second vote in the last election.

      So whenever we see a “face off” between the queen of procrastination and a tory, lib dem or labour MSP, we know it is all just an act, because the minute Sturgeon’s SNP handed over seats to unionists, you know they are all, and probably have always been, in the same team.

    57. sarah says:

      @ Ebok at 11.54: “why not buy Ch 4…or start a newspaper” to get the message out…

      There is the “Scottish Independent” paper or similar title, I think, but it clearly isn’t getting out to enough people. And its focus might not be quite as clear as what you suggest.

      You are right – if a newspaper writing the truth a la Wings could be delivered weekly around densely populated areas [to get to the most people easiest] that would be a great start.

      I also thought a while ago, why not a radio, pirate if necessary? Or it and a TV station could be based in Ireland and beamed to Scotland.

    58. Ruby says:

      Maybe what divides the so called ‘Independence Movement’ is that that one side is Unionist.

      I don’t see issues like corruption, perjury, theft, etc etc as being petty issues.

    59. Shocked says:


      So we should all wheesht for Indy?

      If that was the intention and if that’s how you think then I don’t want any part of the supposed free and independent Scotland that you and Chris supposedly want.

      The New SNP are selling an open prison, a place where freedom of expression and human rights mean nothing, where having a different opinion to the dear leader means you are a criminal, where the ruling class can commit crimes with no consequences, where women are degraded to second class citizens to appease a minority of the 0.01%. Anyone who thinks all these issues can be sorted out after the fact needs serious psychological help. If we are stupid enough to try and found a new country with the New SNP dictating the terms then we will deserve all we get. When the legal system and constitutional is set up to suit the ruling party we will end up in a third world dictatorship shitehole that will make Belarus look like a kids tea party. Things really are getting to be that bad and the root cause of this can be those who put all reason to one side and turned the New SNP into a sturgeon personality cult. The party needs wiped out and we need to start again.

    60. James Che. says:

      In times past men watched their women and children being dragged out their homes to be slaughtered and raped by the rich and landed gentry, or by orders to do so by their minions.

      It is no different today, just because it is subversely well disguised when done to the Scottish people by the Scottish devolved goverment.

      How far away is it that children will be taken out of homes and separated away from their parents on any excuse the Scottish government see fit,
      The named supposed guardian that swinney thought up is just step 1, now the children are allowed to change sex at for years old? And not talk to their parents,

      You’re children are being stolen, you’re wife’s and girlfriends are to go back to the 1700s. Where anyone could rape and mutilate them.

    61. Ruby says:

      The most telling & depressing thing in the cartoon is the Saltire torn to shreds!

    62. Ottomanboi says:

      So-called Covid 19 does not kill, that is sensationalist journalese. Depending on good general health the auto immune response will deal with the infection over a couple of weeks. Complications arise due to poor health, secondary infection and lifestyle habits which stress the immune system. As people age the chances of being in some state of poor health also increases «risk».
      Young people, being in better health, are generally more able to fight infections, naturally. This is the process that has ensured the survival of the human species, not vaccines and patent medicines.
      All quite normal process. There is no one size fits all in this, we are individuals after all.
      Such a shame government and the Dr Strangelove type med. experts advising it would have us branded and shoved in the same pen awaiting further restrictive developments.

    63. Ruby says:

      It would be great if we could see the same amount of discussion about women’s rights on this forum as we do about Covid.

    64. Ruby says:

      I would be equally happy to see discussion about transgenderism.

      I am interested to know exactly what that is and if anyone can be transgender if they want to?

      The definition of a ‘transphobe’ would also be useful.

    65. MaggieC says:

      Chris, Excellent cartoon once again .

      It was a great to be at Holyrood on Thursday and all of the women who were there were only interested in defending our rights which we will continue to fight for and in the words of one of the speakers ” It’s the hill that we are prepared to die on ”

      Sturgeon can’t hide away in Holyrood away from the women because we aren’t going away and as we say

      It was also great to see so many men there supporting us and so many women also travelled from other parts of the UK .

      It was a great atmosphere within the crowd except for the wee group of wokies who were there to counter protest but we drowned them out with our loud voices and we’ll continue to shout because they aren’t going to silence us.

      #WomenWontWheest .

    66. Hatuey says:

      Ruby, my approach to the anti-vaxxers is entirely responsive. If it wasn’t for me and a few others providing an alternative to their warped madness, they’d dominate this website. There’s nothing petty about it but I’d gladly not talk about it.

      Nobody is suggesting the totality of women’s rights are unimportant or petty. Stop exaggerating things.

      Of course, GRA negatively impacts women’s rights in certain areas. Nobody disputes that. Crudely put, though, you might say that it doesn’t in any way impact on 95% of the rights women have achieved as a whole over the years in many areas.

      It’s a value judgement, but I think fighting for independence is more important than that.

      It’s complicated, I get it. Getting rid of Sturgeon and her cohorts is the key to everything, in terms of GRA, women’s rights, the Salmond scandal, the fight for independence, and much else.

      But if we fight on too many anti-Sturgeon fronts at once, we become divided and lose everywhere.

      Painful as it may be, I think it’s time to stop distracting ourselves with all that other stuff and focus squarely on the issue of independence again, Sturgeon’s failure to deliver indyref2, and standing up to the Unionists.

      Doing so would drive a very positive wedge between her and her allies at the BBC who defend her on the other stuff but not on independence.

      Everything else seems to lead to years of tortured misery.

    67. MaggieC says:

      Grouse Beater @ 9.48 am

      An excellent article from yourself once again.

    68. wee monkey says:

      See Alvin [Aylin] Smith has been pictured on the ‘phone to the Israelis.

      Don’t know whether it was legit peoples front of judea stuff OR in fact ordering a fish supper.

      By the look of him I’d say fish supper[s] galore.

    69. wee monkey says:

      See Alvin [Ayln] Smith has been pictured on the ‘phone to the Israelis.

      Don’t know whether it was legit peoples front of judea stuff OR in fact ordering a fish supper.

      By the look of him I’d say fish supper[s] galore.

    70. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      Crudely put, though, you might say that it doesn’t in any way impact on 95% of the rights women have achieved as a whole over the years in many areas


      Fuck off Hatuey!

    71. Republicofscotland says:

      “Elizabeth Hagan says:
      4 September, 2021 at 11:35 am

      I do not think the SNP & Greens are English friendly.”


      Sturgeon is on record urging folk from England to move to Scotland, knowing fine well the majority of them have in the past voted no to Scottish independence.

    72. Ruby says:

      It’s only 5% of your rights ladies & girls.

      That 5% that kept you safe from peeping toms, rapists & abusers.

      Cancels short lists, women sports & breast feeding.

    73. Republicofscotland says:

      “If we want to see good news spread and not be scared to do so as in China or any other despotic country.”

      James Che @12.34pm.


      You mean like in Scotland where indy journalists are imprisoned for reporting/spreading the truth. Then have their vital medical devices removed.

    74. A. Bruce says:

      Mia @ 12:10 PM
      I was in NZ between the end of Nov 2019 and July 2021. There has just been one more death there yesterday which brings the grand total to 24 people, and because of a rigorous lockdown it’s being brought under control.
      Sturgeon has a lot to answer for and I don’t understand how the Scots can be so blase about her role in the thousands of deaths. If that number of people had died in NZ you would have seen people with pitchforks in front of the Beehive demanding Ardern’s resignation.
      Sturgeon had the power to close the border under quarantine laws but she is too gutless and scared of Johnson.

    75. Ruby says:

      I have no idea what ‘transgenderism’ actually is. Does that include cross dressers, prisoners looking to get into a women’s prison, sportsmen looking for a easy ride, assorted perverts etc etc.

      I have read about ‘gender dysphoria’ and that sounds really horrible, a terrible predicament to be in. I have great sympathy for people suffering in this way.

      It seems the only solution on offer for people with ‘gender dysphoria’ is in the case of a man is just put on a dress and self-id as a woman.


      I think that is a huge con and the most ridiculous solution to a problem I have ever heard.

    76. Geoff Anderson says:

      Once again we are not talking about Independence.

      Sturgeon continues to dictate the debates that do take place…and it is NEVER about Independence.

    77. Patsy Millar says:

      Excellent cartoon as ever but sad.

    78. Ruby says:

      The risk of insisting ‘She/Her’ talks about independence is that she will fuck it up so completely you could end up with zero support for independence.

      Perhaps better if She/Her & Hautey continue to talk about Covid.

    79. Saffron Robe says:

      Very good cartoon, Chris.

      It is a psychological tactic of those whose arguments are weak to accuse others of the very thing they themselves are guilty of.

      In current times those who maintain their rationale are being singled out and accused as part of the official narrative, divisive minority issues are being used as a wedge to turn people against each other, and universal principles are lost in a haze of name-calling and scapegoating.

    80. holymacmoses says:

      So good Mr Cairns.
      A perfect metaphor for the wiseass Sturgeonites. I refuse to call them SNP – they should not be allowed to steal the title

    81. McDuff says:

      Spot on Chris, you have shown an armageddon Scotland, Sturgeon`s Scotland..
      So once again Scotland has to pay to watch our national team on television through Sky subscription or a one off payment of £9.99.
      The English get to watch their national team on terrestrial tv for free. Yet for Sky the game they would surely want to cover would be England, so why with all its cash are they not doing so.
      Is there any other country in the world except Scotland that would stand for this. Its i`m sure a deliberate ploy to bury anything Scottish from the air the danger being if our national team excelled it would promote pride and encourage independence.
      Yet no SNP politician raises their voice in concern at this ongoing assault on our culture.

    82. Pixywine says:
      A wee break from the grotesquery of Scottish politics.
      Mr Cairns You’re up there with Steve Camely. Brilliant

    83. Pixywine says:

      The SNP are not Nationalist. They are Globalist.

    84. Pixywine says:

      A Bruce. Sounds like NZs crackhead Prime Minister is well on the way to eradicating death. Shame about the Apartheid health passports a necessary precursor to a Surveillance State.

    85. Captain Yossarian says:

      From 25th February 2021 (that’s before the Fabiani Inquiry and the jailing of Craig Murray) – “Censorship, bullying, threats of jail… how Nicola Sturgeon’s storm troops turned Scotland into a banana republic without the bananas.”

      We now have NHS waiting lists of 600,000, world-beating drug deaths, a spiraling fiscal deficit and a legal profession that the world finds funny.

      That’s 6-months. The only thing we can say about the next 6-months is that it might get a lot worse.

    86. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi McDuff.

      Your link for tonight…

    87. J.o.e says:

      ‘The SNP are not Nationalist. They are Globalist.’

      A salute to the bare honest truth.

    88. Pixywine says:

      Tories raising National Insurance contributions at a time when the NHS is being privatised. What a swindle.

    89. Pixywine says:

      Mia. There is no “pandemic” unless you count PCR false positives as some sort of problem. People are getting sick from the “vaccine”.

    90. Pixywine says:

      Shocked. You should be aspiring to be like Belarus. They have no Critical Race Theory and wer not locked down by their Government because Lukashenko told the banks to fuck off with their lockdown demands. Follow the money. Oh and Belarus are having as good if not a better health outcome as Sweden just by following standard flu procedures. They didn’t carry out the science /social experiment our Governments are indulging in. And they won’t have the same debts owed to the bank cartels as we are lumbered with.

    91. robbo says:

      I wonder if Colin Mc Innes has asked NS, AS and thon either wan to come down to see. If not ,why not?

      Also, I take it he passed details of the family onto social services? If not ,why not?

    92. Andy Ellis says:

      @ 4.27 pm

      There you have it folks: our aspirations should be to be more like Belarus.


      Jeezus wept: reading BTL in this place now is like watching Jake Angeli strut around the White House.

    93. robbo says:

      You leave the covid tzar alone Ellis. He’ll only whinge.

    94. Robert Graham says:


      I know that this site is for the time being and before he gets well and truly pissed off the sole property of Stuart Campbell he calls the shots and we are only guests and invited to air our views on various subjects therefore the deal is don’t piss the management off or else fk off and play somewhere else,

      However over the years this site has attracted more than its fair share of fkn nutters who’s sole aim is disrupting anything that’s going on I don’t know if they are paid by the responses they receive by people replying to their mostly fkn pointless comments or it’s just the day job , they do a shift then bugger off until the next shift starts,

      I don’t need to point out the most recent one because they follow the same pattern as all the others and that’s pretending they are a long standing supporter of Independence then slowly push their agenda but it’s the same method every time and that’s cause as much disruption as possible .

      Don’t feed them that’s the reason I haven’t named the current one but they are pretty obvious .

    95. Tannadice Boy says:

      I am deeply offended, in fact I have never been so offended in all of my life. Hamish has turned his back on us!. Great cartoon Chris I think the “Ahem” was the star of the show.

    96. Kevin Cargill says:

      The tattered saltire will surely be the emblem of the New England region of Scotshire once Sturgeon has finished with us!

    97. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – Getting-on like a house on fire at the moment. I think we already have an answer, but it hasn’t been reported to me yet. I congratulate you on your advice. You and a few others and, of course, the bloggers without which I would have been beaten. I owe the bloggers and I will not forget that. It’s no wonder all at Holyrood want to shut this site down.

    98. James Che. says:

      The way topics are being divided over many subjects in Scotland can only be purposeful, as the topics through the devolved government are many and decisive to the people.

      Earlier in the year the thought had crossed my mind that the foundation are being torn at the seams of our country.

      Running and building a country should start with the foundations,
      And those foundation are family
      Family then relatives .
      Then neighbours,
      Then community.
      Then county,
      then country,

      But Scot gov has been going after vulnerable children and then women, now this year we see many men being politically attacked,

      The family are the foundation that grows the country upwards to spread to all the branches and ramifications thereof.
      Deliberate Divisions in the people, in ourselves, only weakens us,
      for it is not each other we should be attacking,
      It’s governments, by extended school power, police empowerment beyond what is reasonable or socially appropriate and acceptable in society,
      and crooked courts with no oversight dishing out draconian measures that match any totalitarian state. (one reason I do not agree with hatuey).
      We , and I mean we, must not let this happen,
      Stand up and speak out for your family member, you’re relative, you’re neighbour,
      Even if you do not like them,
      Because it’s others first and then it’s us.

    99. Ottomanboi says:

      And it came to pass.
      Scottish «Nazional» Party….I blame that Knox guy and his buttoned up authoritarian régime
      Thou shalt not!
      Better than this, we can do!
      I earnestly hope so.
      Bute House aka But House, always a reason not to.

    100. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 6:06pm
      Well great if positive action is the outcome. Politicians are employed to make life better for citizens irrespective of who they voted for. I am not feeling that at the moment. I want everyone in Scotland to have a better life. We have lost our way ala the Chris cartoon.

    101. Republicofscotland says:

      “There you have it folks: our aspirations should be to be more like Belarus.”

      Andy Ellis.

      Has it ever crossed your mind why the there’s been street demos in Belarus, other than Lukashenko being an evil tyrant?

      Belarus is aligned with Russia, and the CIA offshoot the National Endowment for Democracy, has like in Venezuela and Cuba sponsored the demos against Lukashenko, they want to oust him and replace him with a Western friendly puppet president, and in the process situate nukes right on the border with Russia.

      Its bad enough with SNP MP’s such as Alyn (Daddy Bear) Smith and Stewart McDonald spouting this rubbish without you adding to it as well.

    102. Ottomanboi says:

      Revolutions have been triggered by less.
      Tether, very much the end of.
      What IS to be done?
      Certainly not waiting for something to turn up!

    103. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ottomanboi 7:28pm
      The game is about to start. The beer is waiting. But I will answer. Anybody who served in Northern Ireland in the seventies will tell you, we are not Ulster. For me, the trigger point will be when one of these apparitions who has self ID enters a woman and girl child space. Absolute aggression thereafter. I don’t care what happens to me. And I know of many ex servicemen and honest Scottish men think the same. Including former SNP men. That’s the trigger point. Absolute aggression coming up. Bring it on.

    104. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Goal for Scotland!

    105. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 7.17 pm

      It hasn’t occurred to me to shill for loathsome regimes like Lukashenko, no. Why would anyone think that was appropriate? People demonstrate in favour of the mullahs in Iran, they demonstrated in favour of the Shah back in the day too. If you honestly think the world, and still less the Belarusian people, are better off with Lukashenko as President than someone chosen after the people chuck him out, your moral compass needs re-calibrated.

      I have precious little in common with Smith, McDonald et al. I’m not blind to the failures of US and “Western” foreign policy over many decades. The appropriate response to such failures however is not to be wilfully blind to the kind of regimes you appear to be entirely sanguine about because we disagree with US foreign policy. That way lies the kind of casuistry that has sought to excuse the actions of authoritarian regimes throughout history.

      Whether that is based on a genuine dislike of the USA, or of western liberal democracy, or the capitalist system, or an actual belief that Belarus, Venezuela and Cuba (or in a previous age the USSR or other People’s Republics) are objectively “better”, fairer, more just, more successful and objectively “happier” places, I’ll leave others to draw their own conclusions as to how worthwhile your analytical powers are.

    106. Breeks says:

      Ha ha ha. 1000 miles off topic, and a wee bit of fun movie trivia, you know the film Hot Fuzz?

      Well, when Sgt Angel is telling his girlfriend Janine that he’s been transferred, you never see her face without her mask on, – but apparently it’s Cate Blanchett.

      Kinda blew my mind for some reason. 🙂 Just thought I’d share.

    107. Republicofscotland says:

      “It hasn’t occurred to me to shill for loathsome regimes like Lukashenko,”

      Mr Ellis, it never crossed my mind for second that you would, such is my certainty on your mind set. However I don’t recall Lukashenko invade Afghanistan and murder and pillage for twenty-years as the Great Satan and its puppet the UK has, nor do I recall Lukashenko razing Libya to the ground, and bomb and finance proxy fighters and kill Syrians, as the Great Satan and the UK has, along with other EU puppet nations of the USA.

      So forgive me when I don’t quite share your concerns over the Belarussian president, just because the West says so via its sponsored demos. In 2014 the US embassy in Kiev Ukraine was the staging post for the so called revolution ex-Azov battalion members were trained to cause riots at the Maidan, as were the snipers who killed Ukrainians they were trained by a US Special forces sniper.

    108. robertknight says:

      Nice one Mr Cairns.

      Sturgeon’s Woketopia at Holyrood.

      Rats in a sack fighting over the crumbs from Westminster’s table.

      Would be funny if it wasn’t so needlessly f***ing tragic.

    109. Captain Yossarian says:

      RoS – I think I have said this to you before, more than once, but needs must as they say. Libya was bombed by the French, not by the Great Satan or by the UK. I was there at the time and so I should know. It was not razed to the ground, the airport certainly was, but hardly any of the rest of the country was significantly damaged by French bombing raids. These French are fastidious about preserving the public realm.

    110. Republicofscotland says:

      ” I think I have said this to you before,”

      Yip Cap, you have and I’ve countered it before as well.

      The US also bombed Libya in order to keep its Western puppet government in charge.

    111. Captain Yossarian says:

      RoS – What you are referring to is interventions at the behest of the Libyan Government which took place from 2015-2020. These requests were made directly to the USA and they responded with attacks on ISIS. The war took place in 2009 and was preceded by demonstrations in the town of Zawiya, which is close to Tripoli. Coincidentally, I was in Zawiya that day. Days later, folk were being shot from rooftops. The USA had next to no involvement in the war.

    112. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 8.38 pm

      So tell us, since you’re so certain about others mind sets, is what you unselfconsciously call “the Great Satan” responsible for all the world’s ills, or just *some* of them? Even if we accepted there was any basis to the fervid imaginings you are prone to regurgitate here for us to point and laugh at, it might strike some people as passing strange that you are so unwilling to see or apparently acknowledge that the odious regimes you are content to give a free pass have their own cupboards full of skeletons.

      One doesn’t have to be aligned with the people you oppose to see that the moral equivalence you’re trying (and failing) to make isn’t one that hold any water. Of course it isn’t an outlook that any but a tiny minority of folk give any credence to either, which is a mercy.

      You remind me of the old “tankies” who used to loudly defend the Soviets when they crushed uprisings against their rule and their system of government because *Great Satan* (honestly? Surely the use of the islamo-fascists descriptor of choice tells us everything we need to know about you mind set?). There has always been a leavening of contrarians like you in our political environment of course.

      You’re a step away from turning up on Big Brother in a leotard impersonating a cat.

    113. dramfineday says:

      Hahaha Chris, “Ahem”, indeed!

    114. Republicofscotland says:

      Cap @9.21pm.

      Yes that’s roughly what’s been going on in the great Satan’s Forever Wars.

      Though it wasn’t the first time the US and the UK bombed Libya, they bombed it in 2011, and the Great Satan bombed Libya in 1986 as well.

      “American and British naval forces fired over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles” in 2011.

      Cap this is pretty well common knowledge, I mean you’re either too lazy to do your home work, or you believe the shite the media and the government tells you, either way its not a good look.

    115. McDuff says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Thanks for the link Brian much appreciated.

    116. Captain Yossarian says:

      “110 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles” is nothing. Your reading all of this from the internet, aren’t you. That doesn’t mean a thing.

    117. Republicofscotland says:

      “You’re a step away from turning up on Big Brother in a leotard impersonating a cat.”

      Give it a rest Ellis, you waffle on without a shred of evidence to back up your puff piece.

      As for George Galloway, I had a lot of respect for the guy for what he did for the oppressed people of Palestine and his efforts in Iraq, and his masterly performance in the US in a Q&A session. However his continued staunch stance against Scottish independence has left a sour taste in the mouths of many Scots.

    118. Pixywine says:

      More people have died from the “vaccine” in Australia and New Zealand than died of “covid 19”. I know the shills will claim that as a victory for lockdowns and vaccination but its clear to anyone not emotionally invested in the belief in a “pandemic” that people are getting sick after taking the vaccine that was initially sold as highly effective against covid. Hatuey made such egregious claims – just skip the difficult words Robbo- months ago and way to early for even virologist to know.

    119. Republicofscotland says:

      “110 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles” is nothing.”


      I’m sure those Libyans that felt the force of them would beg to differ.

      As for your second point its patently obvious you are not, I take it you get your info from the Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or some bloke down the pub.

    120. Pixywine says:

      George Galloway is Establishment fully and completely.

    121. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 10 pm

      Aw mate, I’m not the one fluffing for Lukashenko and calling the USA the Great Satan.

      Your idea of evidence is cut and pasting from Wikipedia. You’ve got all the credibility of the late, unlamented Cameron B Brodie. I mean that guy was a real weirdo but at least he appeared to have a few brain cells even if they were occupied cut and pasting reams of secondary research and links to off-topic and pointless “evidence”.

    122. Republicofscotland says:

      “Aw mate, I’m not the one fluffing for Lukashenko and calling the USA the Great Satan.”

      Indeed you are not Mr Ellis, you don’t know enough to do either, stick to waffling its your forte.

    123. Tannadice Boy says:

      Reading these comments I am wondering how many of these posters actually live in Scotland?. Not many I suspect. Missing the main point everytime. Any subject but what is factually going on in Scottish politics. A clue it’s about young girls and their safe places.

    124. carjamtic says:

      It’s night time in the big city

      A woman watches her neighbours through binoculars, her husband is in a dress shop, he steals a nail clipper

      a spinner finishes a jigsaw puzzle, a vivid picture of covert power, of plotting, of a severed hand

      a lawyer has a troubled sleep, somewhere, in his subconscious, there is head a banging gavel

      a pair of tartan stiletto’s are displayed in a charity shop window, the bluebottles are on high alert

      a Styrofoam cup rolls across the street

      a barefoot woman wearing a trench coat, rushes pell-mell into a corner shop, looking for some baby green carrots

      gangs of screaming skulls swarm through the buses and trains, intent on throwing their granny’s not just off but under

      a laughing gnome shaves off his moustache, his cheap syrup is fooling no-one

      a drunken security guard drops his torch, near the “slippery when wet” entrance, the books are burning

      the alert poodles are gathering outside the abandoned library, scratching at the windows

      somewhere a car alarm goes off, something’s not quite right here. nobody will pick up the phone

      the bluebottles have fed, the deals are done, the cheviot, the stag, the black, black oil.

      It’s night time in the big city, the truth is “out there”, stones are hard, water is wet, objects unsupported will fall towards the earth’s centre,
      freedom is the freedom to say two plus two makes four, if that is granted, all else follows, if not, abandon all hope

    125. Tannadice Boy says:

      @carjmatic 10:48pm
      You make my point clearly. “It’s nght time in the big city”. Next time you go on an English course remember Scotland has a different language. We can speak English but also colloquialisms when we want to. It’s all about authenticity. Sack your English teacher.

    126. carjamtic says:

      Tannadice Boy

      I recognise a clatty bastard when I smell one… are not, see you in the morning uncle…


    127. I love how a lot of the media have portrayed the protests as ‘anti trans,’ instead of pro-women. Mendacious scum. If I never heard the word ‘trans’ again in my life, it would be too soon. I have nothing against this tiny amount of people, but I have nothing for them either, much as I, and most people, have nothing much for most of the rest of the human race. Want to get your genitals or breasts cut off? Fine, go for it. I won’t abuse you. Just stop causing so damned much fucking trouble for the rest of society, most of whom will never meet a trans person in their life anyway. I, and most people, are beyond sick of this total shit, and wish it would just GO AWAY.

    128. Hatuey says:

      Well, where to start in these wee small hours…

      First of all, I respectfully disagree with Andy Ellis on US foreign policy. Criticising the US along “great Satan” lines doesn’t mean anyone is giving a free pass to odious regimes. Actually I’m quite surprised that someone with a PhD in International Relations could exhibit such a vulgar understanding of widely accepted notions of morality and justice.

      In short, and I won’t labour the point since it’s so basic that most children understand it by about the age of 6, you can’t justify your transgressions (or the transgressions of the US) on the basis of what others may have done. If it was considered legitimate to do that, it would literally be impossible to hold anyone to account for anything — all they’d need to do is point to some comparable or more heinous crime committed by someone else and they’d be entitled to walk free.

      Another basic principle of morality and law, widely held and accepted, concerns equality and the idea that what’s right for one ought to be right for all. When you apply that to the US things get extremely difficult and there seems to be some strange consensus around the idea that the US has some exceptional God given right to intervene anywhere and everywhere on the basis that its national interest may be served or threatened in some way.

      If other countries operated and intervened on that basis, humanity would be lucky to last a week.

      The last thing the US wants is a functioning system of international law and that’s why they’ve done more than any other country to undermine the UN.

      The only argument for US exceptionalism that holds anything resembling water is the idea that “might is right”. But that’s not just or moral, it’s the opposite. Even here there’s a condition though; might is right for the US but nobody else.

    129. Hatuey, the USA is a third world, anti-intellectual dump with absolutely no respect for human life or rights whatsoever. Were it not for their smokescreen of their ever-more-worthless popular culture that they spray round the world to make people ignore their murderous excesses, people wouldn’t spit on them if they knew what the place was really like. And I say that as somebody who lived there for over a decade.

      Their violent gun crime stats are just a reflection of their xenophobic, murderous foreign policy, and outlook on life in general. They have the braindead mentality of High Noon gunslingers, never having shaken off the Wild West mentality. And they never want to shake it off, either. Soft and weak people, guns and killing make them feel tough.

      The country basically exists to attack other countries whose people have brown skin, bomb them off the planet, then service military and construction contracts building them back up. Look at their withdrawal from Afghanistan. Tells you everything you need to know about them. Great Satan? That’s letting them off far too fucking lightly.

      And Sturgeon’s starryeyed obsession with America, which doesn’t give a damn about Scotland except as a Trident parking garage, and her political regurgitation of its worst intersectionalist excesses (America is becoming very censorious now, under its ailing, failing president) disgusts me to my very core. This isn’t even really Scotland anymore, it’s morbidly obese America Jr.


    130. Roger says:


      You’re right – and more people need to start saying it.

    131. Ruby says:

      ‘An internal governance report, obtained by the Herald on Sunday, has recommended the party improve its financial transparency and appoint a new scrutiny committee to “restore confidence” in in SNP procedures.’

      No shit Sherlock!

    132. `Three large US drug distributors and drugmaker Johnson & Johnson will proceed with a proposed $26 billion settlement resolving claims that they fueled the opioid epidemic after “enough” states joined in, the companies said on Saturday.`

      `The deal, unveiled by 14 state attorneys general on July 21, is designed to resolve more than 3,000 lawsuits accusing the distributors of ignoring red flags that pain pills were being diverted into communities for illicit uses and that J&J played down the risks of opioid addiction.`

      Opioid addiction and subsequent overdose and death which is blighting Scotland is partly fueled by overuse of opioid painkillers prescribed by doctors/NHS Scotland,

      these opioid pain killers are `pushed` by Big Pharma not the guy down the pub/club,

      not sayin people with chronic pain don`t need the pain relief from opioids but the risk of addiction is substantial,

      Scottish Gov need to look more at NHS Scotland doctors overproscribing opioids when adressing our overdose death scourge.

    133. Ruby says:

      “It follows a complaint of sexual harassment made against him by an SNP employee, and further claims he harassed party staffers at a Christmas party. One of the complaints is being assessed by Westminster officials.
      The report finds that complaints had not always been handled properly by the party admitting: “The Governance Review Group was presented with clear evidence that current complaints-handling procedures have themselves resulted in a real dissatisfaction, lack of trust, increased frustration, including, leading to an injustice or increased harm for some.”

      ‘No shit Sherlock!’

      Everyone else knew that way back in 2019.

    134. ronald anderson says:

      Ruby 8.21

      They would be better employing back stairs scrubbers tae clean out the shite Scrutiny Comm ma erse LoL there’s nae honest people left in the SNP chist appointees

    135. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 2.16 am

      Perhaps you should start by refraining to post in the wee small hours? Just a thought of course, but if you were to wait until the cold light of day you might interact with people actually said rather than what you (wrongly) infer?

      It isn’t necessary to have a further degree to dissect the arrant nonsense posted by the likes of RoS of course: any reasonably well informed person with an interest in history and politics could do so. If you hadn’t jumped to judgement – or perhaps had refrained from posting when (let’s be charitable) tired and emotional, you’d have discerned that I was actually making the same point as you.

      Those of us of a certain age, who studied politics and IR as a relatively “new” discipline in the 1980’s were treated to some master classes by the USA in “how not to do Foreign Policy 101” by successive administrations in Washington. The Vietnam debacle cast a long shadow of course, but we were treated to the impacts of the Iranian Revolution, the on-going dispute in Palestine, responses to wars in Africa, genocide in Cambodia, the Russian intervention in Afghanistan, then the fall of communism, the 1st and 2nd Gulf Wars, the Balkan Wars, Libya and then another doomed intervention in Afghanistan.

      If an independent Scotland is indeed going to be “living in the early days of a better nation” it’s hard to argue that we shouldn’t be pursuing an ethical foreign and security policy, but what would it mean in practice? Do we not recognise regimes that don’t meet our minimum standards for democracy? Do we not trade with them, or actively seek to boycott them? Is disapproval enough, or should we impose sanctions? If regimes abroad are using violence and committing atrocities do we ignore it, or are there any circumstances we should support intervention, whether by the UN or others?

      The world is as it is, not how we would like it to be. Doubtless we can all point at societies and systems of government we admire, even if none are perfect: Scandinavia for many in the Scottish independence movement, Belarus apparently for RoS above. I’m by no means a fan of many aspects of American society and governmental system, and particularly of its foreign and security policies over many decades, but there is definitely “something of the night” about anyone who can unselfconsciously describe the USA as the Great Satan.

      Worse still, such language allows British nationalists to paint the independence movement as a bunch of fringe extremists, which will go down like a rat sandwich with the Scottish electorate as a whole. Let’s not forget, a majority of that electorate are still firmly multilateralist, pro-NATO membership, pro-EU and pro-monarchy. Advocating sophomoric political “answers” to 21st century realpolitik is a sure fire way to kill independence stone dead: that goes for those extremists advocating gender woo-woo just as much as it does for those zoomers painting the USA or “West” generally as morally equivalent to Lukashenko, Putin, the Chines Communist Party, ISIS and doubtless Ghengis Khan if we wait long enough.

    136. Ruby says:

      Scot Finlayson says:

      Scottish Gov need to look more at NHS Scotland doctors overproscribing opioids when adressing our overdose death scourge.


      Well there’s that but there’s also the need for people to take responsibility for what drugs they put in their mouths & their childrens mouths.

      Looking for a drug to cure every minor ailment might be the first steps leading to drug addiction.

      Could be that ‘Baby Calpol’ that you give your baby that teaches it there must be no pain and if there is the solution is drugs.

    137. Ruby says:

      They’ve got their definition of transphobia but do they have a definition of ‘transgenderism’
      that is something I would like to see.

      “As previously reported by The Herald on Sunday, several transgender activists quit the party after they complained about incidences of abuse from within the SNP, but no action was taken.
      The party later brought in a definition of transphobia which they said would be used as part of their process in handling complaints about the issue.”

      SNP divided over transphobia definition

    138. Ruby says:

      At the end of the article about the SNP it says

      Asked about the report, an SNP spokesman said: “The group’s report has been received, and the NEC agreed to consider implementation issues at its October meeting with any proposed concomitant constitutional changes taken to conference thereafter.

      A number of the group’s recommendations have however been overtaken by events.”
      The SNP previously said it would cooperate fully with the police investigation into the £600,000 and would be making no further comment on the matter.

    139. John Main says:


      Let’s accept that some of what you say is true.

      It’s a big, bad and dangerous world out there.

      Which of the various powerful regimes should an independent Scotland cosy up to? China? Russia? Iran? Brazil?

      Don’t say the EU. They are as effective as a world power as any other bunch of spineless, argumentative, hair-splitters would be.

      Pragmatic, clear-headed, grown-ups have to face the reality that for all of its faults, the USA is our natural and best ally. Plus they speak the same language, although a few BTL here will no doubt argue even about that.

    140. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 9.31am

      There’s always been a school of thought on the left that would happily accept “Finlandization” as the price for being equidistant between Russia on the one hand (whether the USSR in the olden days, or Putin’s Russia now) and the USA on the other.

      I doubt many of the “USA is the Great Satan” moon howlers posting BTL here have given much thought to where an independent Scotland should stand politically and in defence/security terms. Certainly almost all of them seem to be in denial (or simply don’t know/accept) that the general population will happily support NATO membership and alignment with our neighbours in Scandinavia.

      It’s hard to see most people accepting proposals for a fully neutral stance à la Ireland, Sweden, Finland and Switzerland (and even Sweden is moving closer to NATO membership now after 2 centuries of neutrality), or a non-militarised member of NATO like Icleand.

      I’d happily support a defence and security network including our Scandinavian neighbours and Ireland that wasn’t aligned to anyone else, but I’m not sure it’s even remotely on the horizon. Most Europeans have been quite happy to rely on (and sponge off) the USA since WW2, irrespective of their qualms about elements of US foreign policy, simply on the basis that they were the “least worst” option, and it meant they didn’t have to spend large amounts on defence – unless you had delusions of still being at the top table like the UK and France of course!

      If I was being mischievous I’d advocate for the EU to assume a defence and security role. It’d almost be worth it to see a few heads explode, both on the right and the left. 🙂

    141. Bernard de Linton says:

      Ruby! Are you mother Thereza in disguise? Like letting cancer victims die without palitive care.Calpol! Lmao! Remember,Laughter is the best medicine,unless your asthmatic,then its Ventolin.

    142. David Caledonia says:



      Just two everyday words , you hear them down the pub all the time, yes if the name of the pub is The smart alex inn lol

    143. Captain Yossarian says:

      “They have the braindead mentality of High Noon gunslingers, never having shaken off the Wild West mentality.”

      I wonder – have you ever studied the workings of the Scottish Courts under the SNP? Where Lady Dorian for example is High Court Judge? Your comparison to the Wild West is a pretty good one and I’ll remember it.

    144. David Caledonia says:

      Its like being in some ghastly everending nightmare coming onto this site, thank feck we have youtube and books to keep us entertained for a while

    145. Republicofscotland says:

      John Main @9.31am.


      The Great Satan (USA) has no allies as such only obedient minions, why do you think the Australian economy is tanking, because its doing the Great Satan’s bidding in an economic war against China its biggest export market, or it was.

      Australia’s beef market exports to China were huge, now its animosity towards China at the behest of the USA has saw that market crash in spectacular fashion, I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK Tory government drew up the shitty Aussie/UK trade deal which includes Aussie beef to help them out a bit.

      The only Aussie PM Gough Whitlam (democraticaly elected) ever to stand up to the CIA was fired, by the UK on the advice of the CIA, ever since then Australia has been in the tight grip of the Great Satan, with US listening stations and military bases strewn all over the country, sound familiar?

    146. Republicofscotland says:

      On Nato the UK state will remain the sole member of Nato after Scottish independence. Nato’s remit no longer exists, its now just a bully boy army headed up by the Great Satan, of course some will say that if we’re not a part of it we will become a target, well these European countries are not members.

      Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta and Sweden, and I cannot recall the last time the Nato gun for hire invaded them.

    147. Captain Yossarian says:

      “The Great Satan (USA) has no allies as such.” – I take it you were never a student of the Second World War?

    148. Stuart MacKay says:

      Wow, Jason Michael is really going for broke in his character assassination of Marion Millar and women who stand up for their rights.

      I won’t bother posting the link but instead opt for the shameless plug of where you can find the article and his previous ones where he equates #womenwontwheest with Nazis.

      I can’t decide whether this is just another progressive male performing a self-immolation because he can’t tell the difference between androphobia and the other hot-button phobias or whether he’s really a few votes short of independence. Pretty astonishing stuff all the same.

      As an aside it’s funny that you never see androphobia mentioned anywhere. Of course you don’t because that would legitimise womens’ fear of violence at the hands of men when it’s much more profitable to put them in the same category as anti-semites, nazis, social conservatives, QAnons, trump worshippers, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    149. Hatuey says:

      Andy Ellis tells me my criticism of his views might be put down to a tired misunderstanding then he goes on to re-state the very thing I accused him of with greater force and clarity.

      But I see where you are going wrong, Andy, and I shall happily explain.

      See, you can’t expect to be taken seriously in this world if you talk about ethical foreign policy on one hand and concern yourself with what British unionists might think on the other. Those two considerations are at odds and variance with one another and they explain your contradictory position.

      If I made a mistake, it was to assume that you were being honest when you were talking about American foreign policy.

      Now that I see you were not concerned with honesty but were concerned with how our opinions might look, I can only conclude this morning that you are not only wrong but you are dishonest too.

      I’d be happy to discuss your quite extreme position on lying and how you think it might be to our advantage in the pursuit of independence but if you go into that conversation thinking that I want independence at any price, let me assure you that you’ll lose there too.

    150. Republicofscotland says:


      Times have changed since WWII, interestingly the UK only finished paying off its massive debts to the US for aid in WWII in 2006.

    151. Republicofscotland says:

      So leaked documents on the COP26 summit show that Downing street want to sideline Sturgeon and stop her from appearing at the summit.

      This will vex Sturgeon who has a massive self-ego, if she cannot play to the gallery of the worlds dignitaries come November.

    152. Hatuey says:

      On the the character of US foreign policy, there is no permutation of words in the English language that would adequately convey how merciless, inhumane, and morally repugnant those bastards in the State Dept. have been over the years.

      We are talking about the wholesale industrial destruction of innocent people on a massive and global scale, systematically over decades, undoubtedly amongst the most heinous crimes committed by any country or confederation in the history of mankind.

      Apologies in advance if the facts of the matter upset any British unionists.

    153. Hatuey says:

      John Main: “the USA is our natural and best ally…”

      The USA is finished — morally, economically, and politically bankrupt. The only question worth engaging is whether they will go quietly or not.

      Scotland doesn’t need to cosy up to anyone, where did the assumption that we do come from?

    154. Nally Anders says:

      Stuart McKay @10.47
      Yes Stuart, Jason appears to have lost the plot.
      Marion Millar seems to have offended him to his very core.
      Don’t know why.
      Full marks to Lorna Campbell for her measured and extensive/detailed comments. I, on the other hand, had to bite down hard and resist the urge to comment as I would have wished, namely ‘Away and stop talking pish’!!!
      It’s too obvious, if women’s groups had been infiltrated by the ‘well funded hard right’ how come we’ve so little influence with those in power?
      Whether or not you agree with Marion’s point of view, she has every right to express that view even if it offends and of course Jason is equally entitled to express his.
      It’s called free speech – soon to be banned in Stugeon’s Scotland.

    155. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 10.50 am

      Nope…you’re still doing it:

      “See, you can’t expect to be taken seriously in this world if you talk about ethical foreign policy on one hand and concern yourself with what British unionists might think on the other.”

      I agree. So what is it you’re accusing me of? I think an ethical foreign policy is a great idea in the abstract, I’m just not sure how we – or anyone else makes it work in practice. I’m all ears for folk with an explanation of how it works though? I suspect we might end up pretty lonely and isolated if we insist on absolute purity. Who else might be admitted to our “camp of the saints” do you think? I seem to remember New Labour paying lip service to an ethical foreign policy once upon a time.

      “If I made a mistake, it was to assume that you were being honest when you were talking about American foreign policy.”
      Where have I been dishonest about US foreign policy exactly? Please be prepared to show your working, otherwise you just look like another blow-hard looking for an argument. I suspect we probably agree about quite a lot in terms of the shortcomings of US and “allied” foreign and security policies over recent decades. Of course pointing out the inanities of White House policy doesn’t really get us much closer to standing up a credible alternative.

      “I’d be happy to discuss your quite extreme position on lying and how you think it might be to our advantage in the pursuit of independence but if you go into that conversation thinking that I want independence at any price, let me assure you that you’ll lose there too.”

      What is it about my “position on lying” you feel is extreme? I don’t want independence at any price any more than you do. I suspect that’s a pretty mainstream position given the polling evidence on unilateralism versus multilateralism, NATO membership etc? I think we should be free to criticise US policy just as we should criticise policies of other governments where we feel they are misguided, morally wrong or making bad situations worse.

    156. Andy Ellis says:

      @David Caledonia 10.10 am

      It’s not a sin to be ignorant David. It is a sin to be proud of it.

      Doubtless the estimable(*) readers and contributors are quite capable of researching what Finlandization is and what equidistant ?means.

      Perhaps they’re just not generally on the pub floor with you?

      (*just to save you the effort of opening a book)
      estimable: (adjective) worthy of great respect.

    157. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart MacKay 10.47 am

      It’s watching Jason Michael’s descent into utter buffoonery that makes me rather glad I no longer have a twitter account. It’s always a bit depressing when someone undergoes such public meltdowns.

      From what I’ve seen in the past – both on twitter and on his blog – he does have a pretty intemperate side. I recall him taking umbrage with me in the past for not unconditionally accepting his views on the Highland Clearances.

      I was always slightly wary of him after that. Looks like my instincts were bang on the money?

    158. Pixywine says:
      Actual news about Australia.

    159. Ruby says:

      Bernard de Linton says:
      5 September, 2021 at 10:02 am
      Ruby! Are you mother Thereza in disguise? Like letting cancer victims die without palitive care.Calpol! Lmao! Remember,Laughter is the best medicine,unless your asthmatic,then its Ventolin.


      Looks as if Bernie didn’t like my comment! Perhaps it was too hard hitting.
      Either that or he’s just another smart ass troll!

      Bernie seems to think a headache, a baby teething is on a par with someone dying of cancer!

      Who is this ‘mother Thereza’ you are referring to. Is she rude & known to swear a lot & not have a lot of patience with idiots like yourself?

      I’m wondering if I changed my name to ‘Big Rab’ if the number of ‘smart ass’ comments I receive might be reduced.

    160. Pixywine says:

      Whorattledyourcage. What a load of cheapskate cliche ridden black propaganda. You’ve written off a whole people. You repeat all the usual “lefty” bollocks.

    161. Mark Boyle says:

      Pixywine says:
      5 September, 2021 at 12:13 pm
      Actual news about Australia.

      In the interest of balance and stop this site becoming a complete fruitcake playground:

    162. Ruby says:

      Pixywine says:
      5 September, 2021 at 12:13 pm
      Actual news about Australia.


      Got any ‘actual news’ from Scotland?

      One thing I have to say for the ‘Covid Vaccine Trolls’ both pro & anti is that they are bloody good at this trolling.

    163. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 September, 2021 at 12:12 pm

      From what I’ve seen in the past – both on twitter and on his blog – he does have a pretty intemperate side. I recall him taking umbrage with me in the past for not unconditionally accepting his views on the Highland Clearances.


      You made me smile with that comment Andy!

    164. John Main says:


      So you think the Ozzies are but minions of the good old USA.

      Yet Mia asserts they are one of the few bastions of correct COVID handling anywhere in the world. Not something the USA is celebrated for handling, COVID.

      So which is it? Free, independent, sovereign Oz, or hopeless running-dog lackey of the global hegemony?

      I’ll give you a clue. Countries don’t have friends, they have interests which leads them to form alliances where interests co-incide. As very few countries are totally free of the taint of rancidity, countries end up in alliance with less-than-perfect partners.

      Perhaps just as well. Otherwise, an independent Scotland will be totally on its own.

      I don’t agree with the decisions and policies of the Australian government but so what? They are their own decisions. Their antipathy towards the aggressive and hostile behaviour of China is their own antipathy. It is not orchestrated by anybody else.

    165. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 12.12 am

      Why thank you very much. I’ll be here all week. Remember to tip your waiter/waitress! 🙂

    166. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      The EU is Germany and France, plus a few side shows.

      To be a respected international force, the EU has to agree to let Germany arm itself.

      Something I favour, as they are bloody good at it. But that’s a minority view.

    167. Ruby says:

      Lets talk about Australia & the USA because


      We don’t want to be reminded of that!

    168. Ruby says:


      Let’s not go there either!

      C’mon ‘Pixywine’ gets us something good on ‘YouTube’ about some awful foreign country.

      Did you know Australian’s wear ‘thongs’ on their feet?

      Probably more comfortable than having them spiltin’ yer erse in two.

    169. Breeks says:

      It’s not that I don’t are about the US Foreign Policy (or domestic for that matter), nor indeed Australia’s, Russia’s, China’s, or Iran’s, but I am resigned to the fact that Scotland, whether Independent or not, almost certainly won’t be consulted on that policy, and nor will the Government’s of such counties be losing much sleep over Scotland’s objections.

      To establish it’s credentials as a “World Leader” on anything, I believe Scotland must act unilaterally in doing the right thing, and establish benchmark precedents which demonstrate to other Nation’s what can be achieved if the will is there.

      A particular “pet” interest of mine would be to see Scotland’s desertification of it’s moors and hillsides reversed, and that 1% rump of Great Caledonian Pine Forest resurrected to the fullest extent possible, will the whole wild ecosystem restored, which means over grazing and overpopulation of herbivores being controlled by apex predators.

      That strategy should also be extended into Scottish waters and fisheries, prompting film makers and naturalists to marvel at Scotland’s “trophic cascades”.

      Maybe 50 years from now, if Tigers are still hanging on in India, Jaguars are still surviving in the Amazon, and Snow Leopards are still a species, I would be tremendously proud if Scotland was inviting delegations from those countries to come to Scotland and witness how land ownership and use was reversed, and rewilding introduced which turned a barren and scarred grouse moor denuded of trees and predators was resurrected back to the unique global ecosystem it formerly was.

      But I don’t want Scotland to be regressive about it’s rewilding, but progressive. As we go about rewilding the landscape and replanting the trees, we should also be integrating the natural environment with our technologically advanced society.

      If we invest in our wilderness, then it seems reasonable to hope that the dividend we would see in return is access to enjoy that wilderness, with excellent transport links and infrastructure, accommodation and facilities for tourists and home grown Scots to enjoy R & R too.

      This might mean whale and dolphin watching, or undersea viewing facilities, maybe Crannog Restaurants with sunken restaurants inland where diners can sit and be surrounded by living shoals of freshwater salmon and sea trout.

      Maybe Scotland develops both ferry routes and maybe even flying boats to take recreation and tourism to new levels fit for the 22nd Century… Maybe quiet flights like balloons and dirigibles where you replicate African safaris, but instead of Wildebeest stalked by lions, the drama is deer being stalked by wolves or Caledonian grizzlies. I reckon whale watching by blimp could be awesome.. especially if whales were there to see in their hundreds. Bring new life and vitality to our Hebrides and Gaelic speaking communities.

      And Scotland’s traditional ingenuity is showcased through this infrastructure, not just the building of it, which trains a new generation of designers, engineers, “proper” tradespeople and craftspeople, but pioneers new ways to integrate a modern cutting edge society with “virgin” Scottish wilderness. Do things in ways they have never been done before.

      Maybe our Architecture evolves to embrace vertical farming, where algae and biomass fuel sources are grown vertically on walls rather than fields.

      Maybe we build beautiful civic monuments like medieval Cathedrals, but instead of up, we build down, and pioneer subterranean architecture which a distinctive Scottish vocabulary… I’ve already mentioned Crannogs, but Scotland is blessed with some of the oldest habitations in Europe, and anywhere else in the world, you’d be seeing references to these ancient structures repeated throughout.

      There’s certain irony that leading designs and iconic style is now something we take in our stride in a movie, while our actual built landscape and local vernacular is homogenised to mundane and uninspiring anonymity. Lord of the Rings fans can spot the difference between Elvish / Dwarvish / Orc style, and do it across buildings, architecture, clothing and weapons. Why aren’t our “real” societies actively evolving this same creative individualism? When did style go out of style?

      Imagine we had a Scottish school of design part submerged “dwarf” style in some part of the Great Caledonian Pine Forest, or instead, built up in the Canopy of Scots Pines, “elf” style.

      We could make our Scotland paradise on Earth, and revolutionise the husbandry of indigenous wildlife which sets the benchmark for other nations to copy.

      Because so much of ancient rural and wild Scotland has gone, we can be fantastically creative, imaginative, and innovative about how we go about recreating it, and putting it back. Coming to Scotland could be same cultural enlightenment you feel watching big budget Movie sets and alien worlds, but with the added richness of being genuine, not fiction.

      Right now people visit Norway or parts of Europe, and ask themselves, “why don’t we do this kind of thing in our own Country?” Look at Faroe Isles with their undersea roundabout. Isn’t that inspiring?

      We are only just getting started, but there’s a sweet irony about Scotland’s backwardness and sterile, emaciated wilderness which could catapult Scotland to a position of leading authority and an inspiration to be followed. Change here in Scotland could happen very fast. Scotland’s “Green” Renewables revolution is just the beginning…

      But we need Scottish Independence for the control of our own destiny. We need it desperately. We need it now.

    170. Ruby says:

      We haven’t had much news from France since ‘The Rev’ pulled the trap door marked ‘fuck right off’ without giving the **** Mist any warning.

      C’mon Pixy! We need some ‘actual news’ from France.

    171. Hatuey says:

      Andy Ellis.

      On one hand you say: ” I think we should be free to criticise US policy just as we should criticise policies of other governments where we feel they are misguided, morally wrong or making bad situations worse.”

      On the other, you say: “I doubt many of the “USA is the Great Satan” moon howlers posting BTL here have given much thought to where an independent Scotland should stand politically and in defence/security terms.”

      Nobody is literally suggesting that US is the Great Satan. When people use terms like that (and I’m not one of them), they are obviously taking a critical stance towards US foreign policy which you concede is fine.

      But then you call them “moon howlers” and tell them they are basically thick because they don’t sit comfortably on your scholarly spectrum of viable positions.

    172. Breeks says:

      By the way, I don’t think it is shite being Scottish.

      I’m actually quite pleased about it. For better or worse, I have no jealousy whatsoever to be anything else.

    173. Ruby says:

      Who is paying Jason Jeggers?

      Has he joined ‘The Magpie Cult?”

    174. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 1.01 pm

      Oh come on…don’t play the raw prawn wi’ me Hatuey! You know quite well from this very place that there are indeed individuals who ardently believe the “USA is the Great Satan” schtick. RoS specifically defended the usage when called out on it.

      Criticism is indeed fine, but we’re entitled to view those who move on from criticism of US policy to use of such epithets, or shilling for Lukashenko, for the moon howlers they really are. The independence movement isn’t going to succeed if it’s seen as a front or safe space for people with such extreme and ridiculous viewpoints.

      There’s a reason why folk desperate to escape war, ethnic cleansing and lack of opportunity overwhelmingly flee to Europe, North America and Australasia and not to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.

    175. Republicofscotland says:

      John Main, then Australia is surely working against its own interests and the interests of its people.

      “China’s widening trade actions against Australia have disrupted exports worth up to $19bn a year, according to new analysis, sparking calls for the Morrison government to seek a reset in the relationship to forestall further economic pain.”

      “On top of the hit to the barley, beef, cotton, coal and wine sectors, an additional $28bn worth of services exports could be at risk if Beijing’s warnings to its citizens against travel to Australia – based on claims of an elevated risk of racist attacks – prevents a post-Covid recovery in tourism and international education.”

      “Labor’s agriculture and resources spokesman, Joel Fitzgibbon, said: “How much more harm must our economy suffer before Scott Morrison admits to his mistakes, swallows his pride, and puts an appropriate level of energy into fixing our relationship with our biggest trading partner?””

      Even an Ex-Aussie PM has spoken out on Australia’s road to ruin.

      “Paul Keating has warned Australia’s approach to China has been supplanted by the phobias of security agencies and the hysteria of “pious” and “do-gooder” journalists.”

      “Keating said the Australian media had been “up to its ears” in drumming up anti-China hysteria.”

      Tell me John, what are Australians benefitting from this? they aren’t that’s the short answer, they’ve seriously damaged their economy to put a slight dent in China’s for the benefit of the Great Satan.

      Infact I’ve read that Australia is now so dependent on the USA that it can’t deploy an effective fighting force without the USA military.

    176. Republicofscotland says:

      “I would be tremendously proud if Scotland was inviting delegations from those countries to come to Scotland and witness how land ownership and use was reversed, and rewilding introduced which turned a barren and scarred grouse moor denuded of trees and predators was resurrected back to the unique global ecosystem it formerly was.”

      Nice thought Breeks, I’m sure there’s an estate up North hoping to release Lynx and some of the Scottish Wild Cat population currently being bred in captivity.

      However, and its a big however, how do you see rewilding in Scotland getting around the 500 folk who own most of Scotland, especially the Grouse estates, that kill hundreds of thousands of Weasels, Stoats, Hares Hedgehogs, raptors Crows, Ravens, and a whole host of other indigenous creatures to safeguard Grouse and their eggs every year.

      Then of course there’s the mega rich foresting companies, that plant trees in Scotland to harvest them, mainly as bio-mass fuel, I can foresee decades in the courts to sort this lot out, ending in a humongous bill for the Scottish government of the day.

    177. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 1.28pm

      “Infact I’ve read that Australia is now so dependent on the USA that it can’t deploy an effective fighting force without the USA military.”

      Much the same could be said of many countries. The supposedly NATO led mission in Afghanistan was dependant on the USA, since none of the other members individually or together were capable of providing all the things the US forces can. That’s simply a matter of the US being the only real super power with the capabilities to project force around the world.

      The UK certainly can’t do it, so it’s hardly surprising a nation like Australia can’t do it. The effectiveness of the Australian armed forces depends on who you’re thinking they are likely to be squaring off against, where and for how long. As others have pointed out here and elsewhere, that rather emphasises the point of having friends and allies to back you up.

      Of course it’s possible to make a case for “armed neutrality” or even some kind of defensive autarky but it doesn’t come cheap if you’re really going to convince all comers that you can take them on, or make it too damaging for them to attack you. That was basically the Swedish position post WW2, and it didn’t come cheap: even then they still depended on “the West” and USA for some technology.

      You could of course take the Finnish position and not criticise your authoritarian neighbours next door, take the economic benefits and ignore their politics, or even just take the Irish position and have a token military presence and live in splendid isolation in the hope that nothing bad will ever happen and that you might as well channel resources elsewhere.

      All of these are defensible options, the point is which ones will attract most support post independence in Scotland? We can advocate for following our Danish and Norwegian friends in to NATO and have reasonable levels of defence expenditure, or “do an Iceland” staying in NATO but having a token defensive capability and no armed forces per se or follow Ireland’s example and assert neutrality with little in the way to back it up, or go for the Swedish option.

      Given our history and the polling evidence, I know which one is most likely however much folk howl at the moon about the Great Satan.

    178. Robert Hughes says:

      Breeks . Take a bow for that inspiring vision of what our country could be if only it was Independent and blessed with imaginative planners in positions of power to actually realise the picture you paint . I’m confident the latter would arise with the former .

      Comparing it with the myopic,arid,solipsistic obsession with Identity Politics , the policing of people’s thoughts and language and wholly inappropriate intrusion into family life served-up by the control freaks currently squatting in ScotGov/Holyrood is enough to make you rage and despair at the squandered opportunities and singular lack of vision from that quarter .

      Despite the seemingly endless disagreements on here , one thing I’m sure we’d all agree on is the absolute necessity of ridding ourselves of the vicious , unhinged imposters that comprise the hierarchy of NSNP at the earliest opportunity

    179. Stuart MacKay says:

      Nally Anders

      What was particularly interesting is that a person who has been a person of interest to the police in the past would jump to reiterate the accusation that Millar was abusive towards the police – an accusation that could only have come from the police themselves.

      What Jeggit doesn’t seem to realise is that this is not a philosophical debate. There’s no angle on engagement and possibility of persuasion. Women’s rights are being taken away. There’s no left or right. It’s raw politics and the side with the greatest will to succeed will.

      To accuse women of extremism, racism, anti-semitisim phobia-this and phobia-than is nothing more than blaming the victim. The utterly despicable action of every abuser.

    180. Republicofscotland says:

      Andy Ellis @1.48pm.

      The bottom line is we (as an independent Scotland) don’t need to be in Nato. There are many countries around the globe that are not in Nato and function fine without bein a member, an independent Scotland would be no different to them.

      We in Scotland do not need to project military might, unlike England and the Great Satan (USA).

    181. Stuart MacKay says:

      Andy Ellis

      I thought a contrary opinion on Millar might be worth reading, if only to understand my own position and a possibility that there might be other forces at play. However it quickly became obvious that this was a hatchet piece and a pretty brutal one too. Then he goes and does it over and over again in the following three posts, each time digging the hole he created for himself deeper and deeper and deeper.

      It’s a pretty bizarre situation, especially since he’s always taken the “intellectual path” before in his writings and at least portrayed himself as some kind of mediator – remember AUOB and Manny.

      Perhaps the road he’s taken has exacted a price on him.

      @Nally, I have to say I’m in utter awe of Lorna Campbell’s replies on those posts – calm, measured and unrefutable. She’s very, very impressive.

    182. Mia says:

      “So leaked documents on the COP26 summit show that Downing street want to sideline Sturgeon and stop her from appearing at the summit”

      Well, if the political fraud had that much interest in attending the summit, she could have done so as the FM of Scotland, an independent state.

      That woman has had the power, the mandates and the majorities to end the union since 8th May 2015. If we are not independent today is because she has undemocratically abused our pro indy votes and has brushed our pro EU vote from 2016 in order to glue the union back together, reverse our autonomy and hand the control of our assets to England MPs. Just like somebody overtly flying the New Labour flag would do.

      If she is left out of the summit, frankly she has only herself to blame. To be honest seeing her walking into that summit inside Johnson’s half down his arse trousers back pocket is not a pretty scenery from any angle. She may as well stay at home and spare us the ghastly view.

    183. Captain Yossarian says:

      Is that a great steaming turd at the bottom of the cartoon, right in the middle? I think it is, you know. How appropriate. If we could only manage to deposit one of those on the chairs of all of our MSP’s?

      I remember before Holyrood, we had the one of the world’s great legal professions, one of the world’s great education systems and our NHS was the best in the UK by a mile. Where has it all gone?

    184. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A couple of quotes from the linked article below…

      “No10 is seeking to cut Nicola Sturgeon out of the Cop26 summit to prevent her using it as “an advert for an independence campaign”, according to leaked messages.”


      “Another [No10 advisor] said: “We can’t let this be used as an advert for an independence campaign.”
      The notes also document efforts to ensure that the union flag is displayed as much as possible at the summit.”

      These advisors are making the mistake of assuming that Sturgeon = the pro-independence movement. The pro-independence movement is made up of individuals who believe that Scotland should be an independent country in its own right.

      It is in our own hands, as individual Yessers, to counteract the jackery, without any demonstration being organised. All it needs is 100s, if not 1,000s, of pedestrians to wander about outside the main venue(s), carrying saltires, YES saltires, EU flags, and so on, to provide a backdrop for all the outside TV interviews that are bound to take place.

      As this tactic is purely up to individuals deciding to do it, nobody can be held responsible for organising any “event”. Just people wandering about, as is their right.

      “COP26: Nicola Sturgeon being ‘cut out’ of summit by No10, leaked messages say
      By Jack Aitchison, Live Editor, The Herald”

    185. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 2.32 pm

      Your line of reasoning isn’t one that likely to cut much ice with the Scottish electorate though, either now or I’d wager post independence. There are relatively few independent nations who choose not to have any military forces. Of course it’s quite possible for countries to make a rational choice that they don’t face any serious or proximate threats, so it isn’t worthwhile. Even in Iceland and Ireland however they do have some capability to defend their EEZ’s and/or participate in international peacekeeping and humanitarian relief. I doubt most Scots would support a “zero option”, but I’m sure it won’t stop some people making a case for it.

      Whether Scotland is part of NATO or not, it’s likely to want to be able to police it’s EEZ and airspace. Countries like Norway, Finland and Sweden obviously see value in maintaining pretty capable and well rounded defence forces. Even the Baltic States with their limited means, see the logic in being part of NATO to avoid being pressurised by the Russians: doubtless if I lived there I’d feel much the same. Of course it’s hardly likely the Russian army is going to be rolling over the Tweed any time soon, but there are other ways for major powers to exert influence short of actually attacking you.

      In future the waters around Norway, Iceland and Scotland are likely to be more important given global warming and the possibility of a shorter sea route to the Pacific over the pole. I very much doubt it’s going to be the USA posing a security threat to us in future, but Russia and China look much more likely candidates.

      Of course we can make an argument that detente is better than confrontation, and that the way to encourage change in authoritarian regimes is by trading more with them. Avoiding ideological disputes and not raising concerns about human rights and political freedoms in their own countries and their actions abroad is one way of proceeding. That hasn’t really worked that well so far though has it?

      The Soviet Union collapsed of course, but modern Russia is basically a kleptocracy with a nuclear arsenal and pretensions of still being a superpower. The Chinese Communist Party has managed to embrace capitalism economically whilst retaining an authoritarian grip on political power, and looks set to challenge the USA – or at least take on the role of the former USSR in a US/Chinese rather than US/Russian duopoly.

      You might feel better in splendid isolation, but I doubt the majority of Scots share your stance.

    186. robertknight says:

      BDTT @3:52

      I think it’s fair to say there won’t be a single elected politician within a stone’s throw of COP26 who is in favour of Scotland being independent – and I include those in the SNP/Scottish Greens hybridised woke mafia.

      The idea of an independent Scotland is a means of harvesting votes for these chancers, nothing more.

    187. Republicofscotland says:

      Andy Ellis @4.06pm.

      I did not say that Scotland would not have some sort of military capability, I said that we do not need to project it upon others.

      “Of course we can make an argument that detente is better than confrontation, and that the way to encourage change in authoritarian regimes is by trading more with them. Avoiding ideological disputes and not raising concerns about human rights and political freedoms in their own countries and their actions abroad is one way of proceeding. That hasn’t really worked that well so far though has it?”

      Mr Ellis, your above paragraph says it all really, the UK government is in bed with some of the worst regimes on the planet, such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, the UAE etc, all horrible dictatorships with restricted human rights, but somehow Russia, China, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela are the real enemies of Nato.

      Nato has bombed and killed many folk in ME countries, under the guise of freedom and democracy, its all a lie it always was, yet Nato has not bombed those nefarious regimes I mentioned, because Nato does good business with them in the likes of arms sales via its (Nato’s) host nations, such as the US, France and the UK.

      Lets not forget Nato invoked Article V in 2001, and twenty-years later the results of their bombing and killing in Afghanistan can be seen, we’re bombing your children so that girls can get an education, pleas give it a rest. The Great Satan has frozen $9.4 billion dollars of Afghan assets abroad, at a time when the country desperately needs it. As US puppet president Ashraf Ghani fled the country with so much cash he had to leave around $5 million dollars on the runway.

      An independent Scotland shouldn’t want any part of Nato, and it doesn’t need Nato, however the Great Satan (USA) will try and get Scotland to join Nato because it forms part of the North Atlantic arc, Iceland being at the top and Scotland at the bottom. They want us to join to be the first line of defence for North America, I think not, Scotland should not be a first strike country for any other country period.

    188. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 4.34 pm

      I agree we shouldn’t be giving a free pass to the regimes you mention, any more than we should to Russia, China, Cuba etc. Ideological purity has its costs however. I’m not sure how many of the roughly 200 UN members live up to standards we’d find acceptable.

      As for NATO membership, it isn’t me you have to convince, it’s the majority of the Scottish public who are – if polling evidence is to be believed – pretty pro NATO. Of course it’s possible that might change in the event of independence actually happening before we all die, but I have my doubts.

      FWIW I’d personally be in favour of reaching out to the Scandinavians and perhaps the Baltic states with a view to floating a defensive alliance. Taken together the strategic position of such a bloc and the combined population and potential military forces at their disposal would probably be enough to deter most potential threats.

    189. Ruby says:

      COP26 might be a time to think of doing some serious photobombing.

      ‘Now, it used to be that the test of whether or not an action broke the criminal law was whether of not a reasonable person would agree that it did. Reasonable persons are clearly thin on the ground in Police Scotland. No reasonable person in their right mind would even consider prosecuting someone for opening a bottle of water.’

      I was just getting into the Iain MacWhirter article when it cut off.

      Anyone signed up to

      “The Herald’s political newsletter, Unspun, for FREE and get unrivalled political analysis in your inbox every day at 6pm.”

    190. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart MacKay 2.49 pm

      Agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Lorna Campbell’s contributions on Random Public Journal: she really handed Jason his arse on a plate. He should be utterly ashamed of his recent contributions: what a huge disappointment he’s turned out to be.

      A period of quiet and calm reflection might be good on his part before he destroys what is left of his reputation.

      With friends like these, indeed…!

    191. Hatuey says:

      Lol @ “don’t play the raw prawn wi’ me Hatuey!”

      Well, that was fun.

      When I was a kid I used to dismantle things for fun, just to see how they worked, and they quite often ended up in plastic bags instead of being put back together. Plastic bags aren’t fashionable these days but I’d be happy to send you some sort of paper-based alternative, Andy.


      I see the Herald is running a story on its front page today about the missing indyref2 funds. They claim to have leaked documents of some sort that suggest the SNP was overwhelmed with complaints from rank and file members.

      Anyone read this, I just glanced?

    192. Ruby says:

      I just scanned through the Jeggit article. He’s complaining about lack of academic papers!

      This debate is not going to be won or lost by academics.

      This debate will be won by the little boy who spots that the King is naked and isn’t afraid to say so.

    193. Cenchos says:

      If the Scotland/Ireland tunnel ever progresses, perhaps Jeggit could get the contract, as he is very good at digging holes and there doesn’t seem to be any depths to which he will not descend.

    194. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 5.25 pm

      Aw mate…I couldn’t deprive you of the paper bag you couldn’t argue yourself out of. Thanks for the offer: I’ve wasted enough of my time on you though.

      Some folk just can’t be helped.

    195. Veritas says:

      We are significantly and almost uniquely handicapped in Scotland due to the weakness of our political class- by that I primarily mean the intelligence & experience.
      Scotland as part of the U.K.- & if you assume Scotland as a separate entity- has for centuries seen the best , most able & intelligent politicians move south.
      The list of former PM’’s and major political figures in UK history is endless.
      In the normal course of events the one class who are not part of a “ brain drain” are political types eg you will not see many Norwegians standing in Italy or even Sweden for that matter.
      If you want to fulfil political ambitions you’ve got to stay at home.
      The exodus undoubtedly weakened us and Sturgeons antipathy to Cabinet Govt & the complete subservience of SNP elected members simply worsens an already dreadful situation.
      The weakness of the present opposition in Holyrood shows that the shallowness & lack of any discernible political goal or ideal cuts right through the whole class.

    196. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:

      I see the Herald is running a story on its front page today about the missing indyref2 funds. They claim to have leaked documents of some sort that suggest the SNP was overwhelmed with complaints from rank and file members.

      Anyone read this, I just glanced?


      Yes I do believe I read that article.


    197. Andy Ellis says:

      @Veritas 5.36 pm

      An American I knew at uni in the 1980’s, whose father had left Scotland for the USA in the 1960’s, said that her Dad always said that anyone with any “get up and go” in Scotland had “got up and went”, which explained why Scotland was in the sorry state she felt it was then when compared with the US of A.

      At the time I bristled at the notion and said I thought it was unfair, and that there were still plenty of talented, ambitious and committed Scots who were striving to change things.

      Now, as I look around at the state of things particularly in the past few years, I’m beginning to wonder sadly if she didn’t have a point. I don’t see any inspirational, charismatic figures in their 30’s and 40’s coming through who inspire confidence that they can propel Scotland to the sunny uplands of independence. I’m not sure I’d trust most of them to run a bath, never mind a country.

    198. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      5 September, 2021 at 1:40 pm

      Nice thought Breeks, I’m sure there’s an estate up North hoping to release Lynx and some of the Scottish Wild Cat population currently being bred in captivity…

      See I’m all for that, but not sure it’s going to work.

      There is only 1% of Scotland’s Great Caledonian Forest left, and while I share the impatience to see species being reintroduced, I think habitat must be given priority so that it has a chance to mature, start renewing itself, and cope with grazing animals. To put it crudely, I think it would be wise to have a big larder which is well stocked before you start releasing predators. Otherwise it seems you’re inviting problems, farmers are going to lose livestock, and you’ll be giving the huntin’ and shootin’ fraternity an argument which I don’t want them to have.

      They’re reintroducing beavers, but talking about culling numbers already. Why? That seems a shocking indictment of the forward planning. There’s no predation for one thing. Same problems arise regularly for deer. You’ve brought back the animals but it isn’t a balanced ecosystem until there’s a predator regulating the numbers naturally.

      I also feel terrible seeing these majestic eagles being reintroduced being shot and poisoned. That conflict, I feel wouldn’t exist if grouse shooting and grouse moor landscaping was acknowledged as doomed and no longer tolerated as legitimate land use.

      Lastly, Scotland as a nation no longer has any familiarity with potentially dangerous animals. I mean, is it safe to have wee pets running free if there are eagles overhead? We have no folklore teaching us how to live side by side with these wonderful but potentially dangerous animals, and it could be a fairly brutal thing to re-learn.

      Is it sensible to have cycle paths for mountain bikes in bear or wolf country? What do they do in Canada? I genuinely don’t know.

      Sooner or later, there will be a human tragedy, a loved one lost, and a family raging at the “stupidity” of people like me who wanted these dangerous animals released and running free. But if we choke at that possibility, how can we advocate the saving of tigers from extinction in India or Jaguars in Brazil?

      These choices are not going to be easy. As soon as animals are there, there will be lunatics demanding the right to kill them. I’m hoping by that time, Scottish society will find it unacceptable and attitudes will not tolerate any blood sports or hunting for leisure. Scotland will hopefully be treasuring the resurrection of it’s majestic Great Caledonian Pine Forest, with all it’s rightful critters large and small, and be a shining light inspiring other Nations to do the same.

    199. John Main says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon 3:52 pm

      Some good ideas there but you will need to ensure the pedestrians carrying saltires, etc. are well separated from anybody waving EU flags.

      We don’t want the uncommitted waverers to get the crazy idea that Scottish Indy supporters also want Scotland in the EU.

      That would be madness.

    200. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      5 September, 2021 at 6:14 pm

      We don’t want the uncommitted waverers to get the crazy idea that Scottish Indy supporters also want Scotland in the EU.

      WTF are the “uncommitted waverers”

    201. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi John Main.

      That’s a fair point. I also forgot to mention Alba flags.

    202. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 6.22 pm

      “WTF are the “uncommitted waverers””

      There’s definitely a joke in there relating to surgery and men in dresses, but for fear of being cancelled I will forbear…. 🙂

    203. Republicofscotland says:

      “I think habitat must be given priority so that it has a chance to mature, start renewing itself, and cope with grazing animals. To put it crudely, I think it would be wise to have a big larder which is well stocked before you start releasing predators. Otherwise it seems you’re inviting problems, ”


      Actually the complete opposite is true, when wolves were cleared from Yellowstone the grazers grazed the flora right back, which stifled a more diverse habitat. When the wolves were reintroduced to keep the grazers in check, the flora expanded, and with it came a bigger diversity of fauna.

      Since the wolves reintroduction to Yellowstone National Park, flora and fauna has found a more natural balance.

      “They’re reintroducing beavers, but talking about culling numbers already. Why? ”

      Breeks the Scottish government has already issued licences to kill beavers, already at least eighty have been killed in Scotland with more land owners applying for a licence to kill them.

      The usual excuses have been used they cause damage and flooding, yes they do but they also bring a balance to wherever they set up a lodge by keeping parts of waterways unfrozen during the Winter which benefits fauna in the area.

      As for wolves and lynx being dangerous animals, as long as there’s enough natural prey in the offing both predators should not be a problem to man/woman.

    204. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 September, 2021 at 6:28 pm
      @Ruby 6.22 pm

      “WTF are the “uncommitted waverers””

      There’s definitely a joke in there relating to surgery and men in dresses, but for fear of being cancelled I will forbear…. ?


      That the 2nd time you’ve made me laugh today!

      The following is not a joke. It could be if you came up with a witty reply.

      How many flags are you able to fit into one photo-bomb?

    205. John Main says:


      Uncommitted waverers are those Scottish voters who are thinking of Yes for Indy2, but worried that the Indy cause may have been hijacked by Remainers who want the Scottish Independence we have been awaiting for over 300 years to be no more than a short-term stepping stone to dissolution in the EU.

    206. Ruby says:

      If you spot a guy with a balloon getting close to Boris’s hair get right in there with your ‘Women won’t Wheest’ placard.

    207. John Main says:


      Seems like only yesterday you were bemoaning the tens of millions of inhabitants missing from Scotland because of WM policies favouring population growth in England at the expense of Scotland.

      How do you square your enthusiasm for re-wilding with your enthusiasm for a greatly bigger population? No possible conflicts there at all? No land needed for building, industry, agriculture, infrastructure, hydro schemes, wind farms?

      You have thought this through, right?

    208. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      I’m fairly sure most of the beavers getting culled at the moment originate and have spread from an unofficial release site many years ago.
      The area is mainly Grade A agricultural land that produces important stuff like our food, so there is a degree of conflict as they do change the habitat. Obviously how we current farm and produce our food is a whole other discussion…

      There are beavers near me and over the years they have altered watercourses with their tree munching and dam building endevours.
      What used to be flowing streams with brown trout I could catch for my tea, are now a series of almost stillwater murky ponds because the dams have cut off the flow. Plus as they were trapped in these ponds it’s game over for fish diversity in the once flowing streams because the pike have now cleared out the trapped trout and perch.
      But the pike also have a poor life now too as with no prey fish left there’s nothing left for them but to predate on eachother, with little life quality after for the ones that don’t get eaten by their relations as the pools aren’t big enough to let them grow.

      That is just in my local area though. I happened to take a 30 minute drive on Friday up into the back of beyond hills to a big estate. Absolutely massive amount of land with very little there in terms of people and houses, also very few trees on the rolling hills. Nowt but sheep, and during a chat with the estate owner he said they were plagued with deer. We should be eating locally sourced venison instead of importing shit low quality high carbon footprint meat from afar with the “wonderful” new trade deals…

    209. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      5 September, 2021 at 6:41 pm

      Uncommitted waverers are those Scottish voters….. who want the Scottish Independence we have been awaiting for over 300 years


      300 years!!!! You are a lot more patient than the ‘committed waverers’ who gripped when Jack Sh*t suggested we wait 40 years for an IndyRef2.

      Hang on! WTF is a waverer? Are you talking about people who wave flags?

    210. J.o.e says:

      @John Main

      May have? lol

      Very good point though

    211. Ruby says:

      Fancy something tasty for dinner

    212. Dan says:

      John Main says: at 6:49 pm

      How do you square your enthusiasm for re-wilding with your enthusiasm for a greatly bigger population? No possible conflicts there at all? No land needed for building, industry, agriculture, infrastructure, hydro schemes, wind farms?

      You really need to get out more and either learn or remind yourself just how big Scotland is, and how much land is sitting doing nothing at the moment.

    213. Republicofscotland says:

      John Main @6.49pm.


      The likes of the Duke of Buccleuch and Anders Povlsen own roughly half a million acres of land in Scotland between them, around 500 people own half of Scotland’s land, which isn’t right, there’s plenty of land in Scotland for both a bigger population and the reintroduction of long since extinct fauna, if land reform it done correctly.

      However the SNP Scottish government has no stomach for it.

    214. J.o.e says:

      Speaking of Scotlands natural animals –

      Can we start to protect the space and well being of the native humans?

      What about allocating them some more of Scotland to flourish in?

    215. J.o.e says:

      Or is being native to a geographical area something reserved for animals only and somehow this concept is defunct the minute it gets to us?

    216. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 7.14 pm

      As if the “uncommitted waverers” mental picture wasn’t bad enough, now it’s cooking beavers?!

    217. J.o.e says:

      Im sorry – the idea of introducing an apex predator like the bear into Scotland is a world away from massive land masses allocating space for currently existing animals to avoid extinction.

      A fit person can walk from one side of Scotland to the other in a single weekend.

      Its not just stupid. Its totally fucking stupid.

    218. J.o.e says:

      Can I identify as a red squirrel and be considered an actual native of these lands? Unlike now where that really isn’t kosher?

    219. J.o.e says:

      Maybe if people thought of me as a red squirrel some space would be set aside for my kids from the foreign invasive species and no liberals would shit their pants about it?

    220. Republicofscotland says:

      Joe @7.31pm.

      There’s been no mention of reintroducing Brown bears to Scotland, as far as I’m aware their reintroduction isn’t on the cards.

      The reintroduction of wolves would bring into check our Red deer populations that damage our flora which reduces biodiversity.

    221. Robert Hughes says:

      ” What about allocating them some more of Scotland to flourish in? ”

      Indeed .

      Maybe the people need rewilding too , start biting the hand that doesn’t feed them

      Plenty of space where I am for animals and humans .

      What there isn’t is any clear long-term strategy to develop these spaces for the benefit of local communities and attract young people from elsewhere – cities for example – to them that they may thrive , or in some cases , survive, as something more than retirement villages / holiday home enclaves

    222. J.o.e says:

      What about we all eat more venison?

      I’ll take that. Im not a bad shot either (when I can get my hands on a gun)

    223. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 September, 2021 at 7:26 pm
      @Ruby 7.14 pm

      As if the “uncommitted waverers” mental picture wasn’t bad enough, now it’s cooking beavers?!


      ooh err missus!

    224. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      5 September, 2021 at 6:31 pm

      …Actually the complete opposite is true, when wolves were cleared from Yellowstone the grazers grazed the flora right back, which stifled a more diverse habitat. When the wolves were reintroduced to keep the grazers in check, the flora expanded, and with it came a bigger diversity of fauna.

      Yes, that’s what happened in Yellowstone, but even before the reintroduction of wolves, I think the Yellowstone ecosystem was in much better shape and more robust handling change than Scotland’s grouse moors would be.

      I mean, maybe not. Maybe I’m wrong. Wolves survive on barren tundra, so maybe they’d take to Scotland’s grouse moors too. But what’s left of Scotland’s ancient forest is broken up into pockets, and reforestation to fill in the gaps and massively expand the acreage would see a period where the burgeoning recovery of trees and planted flora might need a little breathing space just to establish itself. Free reign for wolves would mean free reign for deer, and maybe the saplings would all be destroyed.

      It seems to me giving the landscape a few years head start at regeneration wouldn’t be a bad idea, and allow the plants time to establish themselves. The balance of those plants could change later, like Yellowstone, but the plants in Scotland might need help to get established.

      I’m not a biologist, but I know when nature recolonises an area of land, there are some species of hardy plants which colonise wilderness very quickly, stabilise the soil enough to let other plants colonise too. There are stages to the process.

      Sand dunes get colonised by grasses, and the roots of the grasses stabilise the sand and stops it moving, so more delicate root systems can survive, and flowering plants begin to colonise, then shrubs. Once shrubs, bushes and grasses get established the sand retains water much better, and foliage regenerates itself, introducing more nutrients and organic matter into the sands, allowing worms and other beasties to thrive as the sand turns into soil.

      Similar processes would be happening wherever Grouse Moors were allowed to regenerate naturally, but I’m not sure whether the bracken would be too prolific at first and stifle the delicate process of nature’s colonisation.

      Moving on to Sturgeon being shunned at COP26, she has nobody to blame but herself. What credible Scientist serious about Climate Change wants to listen to the opinion of some bellend political crank with pronouns, who finds the A,B,C’s of basic human biology too much of a challenge to grasp?

      If I was Event Security, I’d be tempted lock the door to keep her and all the other nut jobs out of events too. Isn’t that why Security is there?

    225. Breeks says:

      J.o.e says:
      5 September, 2021 at 7:31 pm
      Im sorry – the idea of introducing an apex predator like the bear into Scotland is a world away from massive land masses allocating space for currently existing animals to avoid extinction.

      A fit person can walk from one side of Scotland to the other in a single weekend.

      Its not just stupid. Its totally fucking stupid.

      You were closer calling it a world away. That’s the whole point of bringing it back.

      Bears were once indigenous to Scotland. Do you want rewilding and resurrected ecosystem or just turn Scotland into a theme park? I repeat my other point too… if you find a problem with the apex predators in a natural environment, then the future seems bleak for lions, tigers, and Jaguars.

    226. Southernbystander says:

      Robert Hughes says [5 sep 7.40pm]:

      ‘Maybe the people need rewilding too’


      Funny you should mention this as I have a friend who has written about it (along with quite a few others):

    227. chas says:

      Mrs McIntyre was a mother that always wanted the best for her children. She taught them right from wrong, how to behave and impressed on them of the need to concentrate and learn at school. It was a pet project of hers to introduce her kids to all kinds of different foods. One day, whilst shopping in the supermarket, she saw some venison, which was reasonably priced. ‘That will do for dinner for little Moira and Ruaridh’ she thought.
      She cooked it and served with roast potatoes and cauliflower and a rich gravy.
      She asked the kids if the knew which animal the meat came from. ‘is it a cow?’asked Moira. ‘No’ said mummy. ‘Is it from a sheep?’ enquired Ruaridh. Again a negative. Turkey, goat, goose. rabbit were all put forward by the kids but obviously all wrong.
      Mummy said ‘I will give you a clue. Daddy sometimes calls me this’. At that Ruaridh spluttered and spat out a mouthful. ‘Aw naw’ he shouted. ‘She is feeding us arse-holes!’

    228. Geoff Anderson says:

      Looks like the nutcases and Unions trolls have taken over completely!

    229. Pixywine says:

      Geoff Anderson. Away and bile yir heed.

    230. Pixywine says:

      Those who want “rewinding” are fantasist. The Green Agenda will see us disconnected from nature. Only the rich will be allowed to enjoy it. Those who vote Green are useful idiots. Why does Government preach Green but steams ahead with house building on green belt land? You shall know them by their actions.

    231. J.o.e says:


      Agreed. The green agenda obviously goes well with the covid/vaccine/lockdown agenda.

      Im very sorry for my attitude. I really am. But I am utterly fucking sick of people who can’t think their way out of a wet paper bag.

      Its not just theory now. The rubber is actually hitting the road and its there for all to see.

      But then – the SNP and the trans agenda was there for all to see years before things got really bad.

      If only there was some way to get rid of all the people who wont think for themselves…

    232. John Main says:


      Is anybody serious about climate change?

      Seems to me that a serious Scotland would be self-sufficient in food and renewable energy. That would mean growing or rearing all we need, plus a surplus to exchange for exotic foods we would also want. That would mean generation of all our energy needs, from wind, wave, tidal, hydro and biomass. Would we aspire to have any manufacturing capacity at all? What about energy intensive processes such as steel production? Again, a sellable surplus of energy and goods would be essential.

      It can’t be rocket science to work out how much land would be needed, how much plantation forest, etc. for food and energy and raw materials for our existing population and wealth creation to pay for the functions of the state. Then we could work out if there is scope for more people and scope for re-wilding with slow grow trees such as Caledonian Pine and apex predators.

      Glib statements such as “there is plenty of room” just don’t cut it, not if we are serious.

    233. Robert Hughes says:

      John Main @ 11.10

      Ok .

      Plenty of room for humans , animals and industriousness/enterprise

    234. robert graham says:


      Mostly under the radar but the ground is being prepared for yet another wee sting for the hard pressed home owners namely the new legislation on Smoke Alarms.

      It won’t matter how many you happen to have and how new they are because unless your particular house or premises has been certified as complying with the new legislation by your friendly local installation company suddenly your house insurance will not be valid

      You will not be allowed to complete the installation your self now that little scam is underway the next con trick will be being worked on aye the futures bright eh . And as a wee present your household or premises will have to have all occupants vaxinated Aye that’s next have a good day now

    235. robert graham says:

      Again o/t

      Apologies if it’s the same Plague stuff

      I have been doing a lot outside trying to beat the rainy season that we are about to experience and have been listening to LBC Radio . I used to think it was a reasonably well balanced station until a few weeks ago when the Plague was being discussed one after the other things the presenters were saying didn’t add up and i started thinking this presenter has been got at so after crossing off at least 6 I am down to 1 guy who is would listen to and I can’t see him lasting because he’s too hot to handle and dosent follow the party line is gave up on TV news long ago now the radio has been infected with the pharmaceutical propaganda

    236. James Barr Gardner says:

      Since Nicola took over the SNP till 2026 her government will be responsible for a 10% increase in Child Poverty, 7 mandates later the People of Scotland are still waiting, beyond shame…..

    237. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi robert graham at 11:45 pm.

      You typed,
      “It won’t matter how many you happen to have and how new they are because unless your particular house or premises has been certified as complying with the new legislation by your friendly local installation company suddenly your house insurance will not be valid

      You will not be allowed to complete the installation your self now that little scam is underway…”

      I installed a compliant system myself, earlier this year, after the deadline was put back a year. Smoke detectors in lobby and lounge, heat detector in kitchen, all interlinked via their version of wi-fi and with 10 year lithium batteries. Total cost was £114.21.

      There is no requirement for certification. This is a quote from the relevant publication…

      “Different types of alarms available and where to buy them

      There are two types of alarms that comply with the new standard:
      tamper proof long-life lithium battery alarms, which can be fitted by householders themselves – provides a system of interconnected battery-powered detectors
      mains-wired alarms, which are cheaper than tamper proof long-life battery alarms, but should be installed by a qualified electrician in accordance with BS7671.”

    238. Hugh Jarse says:

      Putin is barry!

      There you go Stu, WoS has joined the roll of “influential blogs” targeted by Russian trolls.

    239. Dan says:

      John Main says: 5 September, 2021 at 11:10 pm

      Is anybody serious about climate change?…

      And this is the nub of the matter. As individual we can still pretty much indulge in what we want, buy tat from all over the planet, fly away on holidays, drive loads of miles in gas guzzling cars, don’t bother recycling, etc, etc.
      We could however work as a collective with the same aims, then we could have huge influence and power to steer “local” policy to whatever ends we choose.
      I say “local” because even with this supposedly great global civic nationalism I still haven’t received my polling cards to vote in other parts of the world to have a say in steering policies in those far away lands.

      The rest of your posts mentions the aspect of us trying to be more self-sufficient as a country, and that supports the subject J.o.e brought up earlier about us building and empowering our local communities by choosing to trade with folk and businesses that are aligned with helping support such ideals, whilst boycotting the the big global corporations.
      Buying local and seasonal food should be a no brainer if folk were actually bothered about the environment and the rise of corporate power.

    240. Breeks says:

      John Main says:
      5 September, 2021 at 11:10 pm

      Is anybody serious about climate change?…

      …Glib statements such as “there is plenty of room” just don’t cut it, not if we are serious.

      The bottom line is the way we currently exploit the planet’s resources is unsustainable. For too many people, that’s just a word. They think it means inefficiency, something that can be tweaked and it will all be fine.

      “Unsustainable” is the point when doctors begin to switch off life support machines. Unsustainable means you’re on end game trajectory. If the path you are on is unsustainable, you need to stop and turn around.

      Humanity waits hoping to avoid the great extinction level event, but Earth’s wildlife is already living it’s nightmare extinction level event. 2 in 5 species of shark are now endangered. Gorillas, Tigers, Rhino, Giraffe, the numbers of seabirds along Scotland’s coast has apparently halved since the 90’s. Even the bees, for God’s sake, even the bees are in trouble.

      For these animals, their extinction level event has already happened, and it’s walking around on two legs.

      And bigger tragedy yet is that it is wholly unavoidable. It is not necessary to purge these innocents from the planet. It is happening because of humanities insatiable greed.

      If humanity is only half as smart as it thinks it is, humans all over the planet need to wise the fk up and start realising than human proliferation IS the planets extinction level event, and the planet’s extinction level event is human proliferation.

      I think the world puts an awful lot of weight onto the shoulders of wee Greta Thunberg, and I don’t think that’s healthy for anyone, especially her, but she has vision and understanding beyond her years, and she isn’t wrong.

      Species have evolved on Earth for millions of years, but humanity has come close to wrecking the planet irrecoverably in less than 1000 years, with most of the insanity happening in the last 200 years. In the greater scheme of things, human explosion is an event, and I hope to god that Mother Nature doesn’t do karma or we humans are seriously fkd.

    241. J.o.e says:

      RE: room in Scotland

      As far as I am aware there is about 4 billion people living in poverty in the world.

      That’s 4 billion potential Scots lads and lassies who could come here.

      It’s easy criticising the policies of the super rich when they are cutting taxes for themselves, getting rid of regulation or pushing regulation on the wee guy. It is not so easy when their policies involve using other poor people. Especially if they are brown.

      Wait, wait, wait. What am I talking about. Scotland has a certain number of red squirrels. They are native. They are not breeding as fast as they used to for various reasons. Grey squirrels, who breed much faster, are being introduced in large numbers and being given help the red squirrels can only dream of which will mean a loss of habitat for the red squirrels.

      Please. Lets think of the red squirrels. They are the native species after all.

    242. Breeks says:

      OT On a brighter note…

      Just wandering aimlessly around the Internet, I happened across this…

      If you want, you can Google for more Swedish standing stones, but the thing that struck me was the overwhelming similarity to our Pictish standing stones, and the obvious possibility of these carved images being highlighted with similar pigmentation.

      I honestly don’t know how authentic the pigmentation is, but the mind boggles thinking about it… If Scotland’s Pictish stones were coloured the same way, the effect would be stunning.

      Pigmentation of stone is a thing in archeological circles. Even the Greek Classical architecture was highly decorated.

    243. Ottomanboi says:

      The word is autarky DAN, the skill and art of producing and making what you can leaving the exotic to the import market. Effectively it is curbing the reliance on external sourcing of product, especially technological products which could be designed, developed and made «at home».
      Innovative skills are required. That begins with education which does little to develop such intellectual initiative. The anglicized Scottish system is glorified conformist child minding.
      Scotland, sadly, is not a land of go-getting, inventive non conformists. If it were independence would be a sunday walk in the park.
      Scotland’s motto. A proud nail must be hammered down.

    244. J.o.e says:


      What you blame on humanity is pretty much mostly the result of insatiable greed by a system that was designed to slowly hand control over to a small group of people. The same group of people blaming humanity at large for it all.

      As for human population – we Europeans are not to blame for this. Indeed we are being replaced, by design, and the excuse is that we aren’t having enough kids from the same people (banking/big business) who are telling us we are causing damage by over population.

      ‘I think the world puts an awful lot of weight onto the shoulders of wee Greta Thunberg, and I don’t think that’s healthy for anyone, especially her, but she has vision and understanding beyond her years, and she isn’t wrong’

      That honestly made me cringe. If you haven’t seen through this then you are far slower on the uptake than I gave you credit for. Sorry.

      Greta Thunberg is used as a shaming tactic to push the bullshit CO2 narrative onto the shoulders of ordinary people so that we are compelled to pay more taxes and accept an increasingly restricted life for these ‘green’ (globalist) projects.

      Get out of your bubble Breeks.

    245. wullie says:

      I found this site interesting re climate stuff

    246. Breeks says:

      J.o.e says:
      6 September, 2021 at 8:22 am

      That honestly made me cringe. If you haven’t seen through this then you are far slower on the uptake than I gave you credit for. Sorry.

      Be upset if you like J.o.e.

      I’m actually beyond blaming anybody, because frankly tagging whoever is to blame is like picking out the leading and over privileged locusts in the swarm.

    247. Robert Hughes says:


      It was native * red squirrels * I had in mind when talking about attracting young people to rural areas , in order to keep those areas viable .

      The question is , given employment , housing opportunities etc how many born and bred * Townies * would choose to relocate to rural areas ? People being , in the main , small ” c ” conservative , preferring to live in the environment they are familiar with

    248. J.o.e says:


      It didn’t upset me. It made me feel pity tbh

    249. J.o.e says:

      @Robert Hughes

      The thing is Robert im not just talking about the countryside.

      The fact that masses of others are being brought in, housed, payed for and helped out with job opportunities while the outlook for Scots continues to deteriorate is a fucking crime.

      Nobody asked us. Nobody gives a fuck how it will negatively affect us.

      It’s not just the employment and housing (quality of life) situation. We are being air brushed out of everything and it is hard to complain about it without breaking a law.

      The red squirrel analogy works because I as a human am not allowed to talk in terms of native and foreign (thats blood and soil you see) but its perfectly viable terms when it comes to the welfare of animals.

      Its a bit like fem.inists with #allmenarerapists. Except when it comes to the 10’s of thousands of white working class girls who were raped, trafficked, hooked onto drugs, tortured and sometimes murdered by mainly Pakistani gangs who targetted them due to them being of a different group/religion. Then you can’t hear or see the disgusting hypocrite bastards.

    250. DunGroanin says:

      The Larry Curly and Moes of Independence.

      That is exactly the plan that was invented a long long time ago to stop the masses from punching ‘up’ by getting them to punch sideways like a never ending Three Stooges eye gouging slap fest.

      Until people understand that – they will be thick as mince, being led by the media darling ("Tractor" - Ed)s in charge of their actual political groupings.

      The purpose is to destroy the SNP solidarity to destroy the political force that can elect and deliver the freedoms from the Crown and Aristos that have lorded it over us for century upon century.

      Exactly the same goes for Labour Party under Blairites and Starmer – the destruction of the largest social Democrat membership in Europe which burgeoned under Corbyn.

      Here is some food for thought of how the world works reposting here from Craig Murray site as am not sure if they are allowing any more ‘controversial’ posts at the moment (no complaint from me as the great man heads well into 2 months of Scottish injustice – great work here btw in keeping that flame burning by WoS).

      Let’s keep digging the truths that led Ambassador Murray to spurn his career path that would have made him a willing cog of the death and lies machine that is our Crown State run by imbecilic Martial Aristo types looking to return us to prewar servility and have/have not class system. Which the current Labour leadership is conspiring with Tories to further with further regressive taxes.

      Two excellent reads concerning the can of worms that is our Crown State and Despotic MSM stenographers.

      Just wtf where we doing with Afghanistan since the 80’s? Carrington, Thatcher, the bankrupt SIS whoring to be the cut outs of the CIA Reagan era adventurers , the Private Military Companies that emerged as the vehicle for the modern day pirates and mercenaries that the British State and our military has become not ‘heroes’ at all just lawless thugs and a lot more detail by someone who was at the heart of it all ob the ground – what took him so long?

      And here we have the Obsessive Guardian DS rags baby faced next gen woke darling back stabber worm tongue- Owen Jones – being skewered for his DS duplicity in spades – he really is a nasty piece of work. The sooner people realise the better for their sanity, as he is fast tracked towards grandee hood, for tricking the soft minded supposed socialists readers that are drawn as moths to his mighty flame.
      A massively researched and detailed article about the Nazi/Zionist compacts that they are desperate to erase from history.

    251. Effigy says:

      A very good point has been raised about the tax increases for
      Welfare payments.
      Why doesn’t Boris use the £350 Million per week that he promised the NHS
      on wining Brexit?

      He did say after the win that they wouldn’t be getting it.

      Got to laugh at some Tories saying the would never break a
      Manifesto promise?

      It remember it in 2010 when they promised to wipe out U.K. debt before the next election
      and then they meant it this time in 2015 and then in the emergency election when Bojo beat May.

      Debt has never been hirer since world war 2.

      May promised no elections within 5 years and then she had one and lost her job.

      Boris promised the UDA at their National Conference that their would be no border between then
      and the U.K. and a week later there was one.

      Do the English actually think the Tories are honourable?
      They were happy to break U.K. law to close parliament and then happy to
      Break international law tearing up the EU agreement they had just signed.

      They should have a rat climbing up a snake as the party emblem.

    252. Scotsman ,Luke Stoltman, just won Europe`s Strongest man,
      Luke is the brother of Tom who is holder of World`s Strongest man,

      no bad for a wee nation,

      when Scots put their mind to it and are not held back by establishment and Scottish cringers we can acheive anything and everything we want.

    253. Robert Dickson says:

      Linked smoke alarms.

      Brian Doonthetoon is entirely correct.


      32 years service fire officer.

    254. Breeks says:

      J.o.e says:
      6 September, 2021 at 8:22 am

      That honestly made me cringe.

      What makes me cringe is the 26th United Nations Climate Change Conference is being held in Scotland, and Scotland’s elected “leader” is busy announcing her pronouns and wittering on about unscientific delusions which have more in common with the primitive beliefs and superstitions of a witch doctor or tribal shaman, and utterly discordant with a modern developed Nation which has something positive to contribute.

      All these scientists and environmentalists having to smile politely and glance at their watches while they listen to Sturgeon’s idiotic babble about biological men being women. What next? Palm reading and Astrology?

      If I was Boris Johnson, I’d be putting Sturgeon’s nonsense centre stage at COP26 as a global laughing stock that’s going humiliate the whole of Scotland and put the skids on Independence for a decade. The fact there are plans to exclude her actually feels a lot like a bullet being dodged.

      It would be a thoroughly different story if Scotland had an effective Leader being sidelined. I’d be up in arms about that, but I am objectively neutral about Sturgeon being dingied.

    255. Sensible Dave says:

      Effigy 9.26

      Whilst it isn’t my brief to defend the Tory government or any government come to that, in all fairness, it is worth pointing out that the UK economy has undergone some rather drastic changes over the last 18 months or so.

      With over £100 billion spent just on furlough, and with less money coming from corporation tax and income tax – our economy has been turned upside down.

      Any budget plans set pre-covid are now down the pan.

      As an aside and as you know, the costs in Scotland due to Covid have been disproportionately higher than England – but that’s OK, because Scotland is in a Union and we all in it together? 😉

    256. robertknight says:

      Someone called Dave…

      “and we all in it together”

      And “it” being that shit-pit called the UK. Someone purleeeze show me the way out…

    257. James Che. says:

      Scotland the future safari park for the rich,
      Build them up then hunt them down.

      The great hunters will not have to travel further than their back door, perhaps they could shoot of their balconies as the royals used to do in Africa.

      Meanwhile the population of becomes endangered along with farmers.

      Now living in the country I can see the prey has already been culled or is being culled at present,
      From foxes, badgers, hedgehogs, rabbits, hares, fish,

      Think tanks and Scientology will and are killing Scotland changing it beyond recognition in an experiment.

      What is the point in fighting for an independent Scotland if it has been turned into Africa.

      Theory ideology is great if left as theory.
      But Scotland should not be a bl..dy experiment for ideology.

    258. James Che. says:

      Its great to be talking about Scotland again.
      Even if for some crazy ideology.
      At least some on here haven’t highjacked the site totally yet.
      I remember the origins of WOS and what it’s purpose was.

    259. ‘Pixywine says:
      5 September, 2021 at 12:21 pm
      Whorattledyourcage. What a load of cheapskate cliche ridden black propaganda. You’ve written off a whole people. You repeat all the usual “lefty” bollocks.’

      ‘Lefty bollocks’? I am not left or right wing, I am an independent thinker. I am giving you a personal, informed view, after having lived in the USA for over a decade, and thought about it a LOT both then and now. What is ‘black propaganda’? What shit are you talking?

    260. ‘John Main says:
      5 September, 2021 at 9:31 am

      Pragmatic, clear-headed, grown-ups have to face the reality that for all of its faults, the USA is our natural and best ally.’

      You honestly think that the USA is our ‘ally,’ or cares about Scotland in the slightest? Seriously? They like parking their anachronistic, worthless Cold War nuclear weapons in an area that would wipe out most of the Scottish population if they detonated. Apart from that, what has the USA ever done for Scotland? Seriously. What do they do for us?

      The ‘special relationship’ was and is a sick joke. It’s dead. The USA only cares about the USA. That should actually go without saying, but apparently some still need to be told this baseline fact. This country has been turned into a playground for bored middle class yanks to come over, decimate historic sights wanking over Outlander pish, and Edinburgh has been turned into the equivalent of a third world bazaar hawking worthless tartan trinkets to yanks pretending they are ‘Scotch’ cos their granny or something “sorta maybe I think came from Scotland, or Ireland, and what’s the difference anyway?”

      All our kids sound like wee Americans now, gorge themselves on braindead American popular culture, and they are our politicians regurgitate tired American politishit. The latter is the reason why we are in the stupendous mess we are with all this trans and censorship shit, straight from the social media mouths of braindead white middle class yanks. It’s all a joke. We’re just a touristy cultural colony of America and England now, we might as well admit it. And that’s not the Scottish Cringe talking. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

    261. Sensible Dave says:

      Robert Knight 11.38

      1. If you wish to shorten my name I would prefer just “Sensible”.

      2. The UK is one of the most successful countries in the world.

      3. I believe there are flights out from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness, Aberdeen.

      … you’re welcome

    262. Hatuey says:

      The idea that an independent Scotland should partner with the bully of the playground, or anyone when it comes to foreign policy, really needs to be explained to me. The US is the biggest threat to peace and order out there — if we ever go up in a puff of smoke, it’ll probably be down to maniacs in the Whitehouse and our association with them.

      For various reasons, nobody here or anywhere wants to admit it; but Scotland is nothing more than a little insignificant damp rock to the rest of the world. I’ve heard all the theories about how strategically important we are, etc., they’re all crap. Nobody really gives a fuck what we do, except us.

      We face no threats in the world. Nobody is poised to invade. We literally wouldn’t even need an army — a few patrol boats would be enough. The only people meddling with the freedom and rights of Scottish people are our supposed allies, the US and Britain, through their sinister eavesdropping operations.

    263. J.o.e says:

      The single biggest problem with the US is that it is pretty much a puppet state for Zionists. Whether it is foreign policy, ‘defense’ or finance it all mostly operates for the benefit of the Zionists and their geopolitical interests.

    264. Robert Hughes says:

      That sounds pretty accurate to me Hatuey .

      I would be happy for an Independent Scotland to have fuck all to do with the rag-bag of Anglo/American imperial fantasists desperately clinging to the wreckage of past military * glory * and aspire to be a quiet , peace-loving nation focused on improving the lives of it’s citizens .

      If prestige is required let it be in the areas of technological innovation , true social justice , sport , arts etc .

      The rest is just noise

    265. Sensible Dave says:

      Robert Hughes 1.55pm

      I think it would be fair to say that any Anglo/American imperialism has been in fast reverse for many years. Historic colonialism is now voluntary, democratic association. As an example, the majority of folk in Scotland would appear to prefer the Union to Independence and (as illustrated by indyref1 and the Rev’s subsequent graph of opinion polls)

      I can’t help but notice that the likes of Germany, Japan, Italy, China, etc … dont seem to get a mention when you talk about “imperial fantasists”?. We can go back a little further and include the Spanish and Portuguese? Back a little further and include the Caliphates, the Ottomans, the Romans?

      When exactly did the UK last seek to actually become the ruler of a foreign country by force?

    266. Robert Graham says:

      Off Topic no Apologies

      The management of LBC must be tearing their hair out the only presenter I trust on that Station is telling the truth about what is going on and has highlighted Australia and how desperate the people down there are feeling the whole idea of arresting people for being outside without a mask is normal now and our trusted media has totally ignored and blocked any news.

      I was quite surprised he made reference to the most recent data that actually confirms people who have had the double clot shot are more of a danger to people who haven’t been jabbed than the plague itself and are more likely to catch it

      So anyone who has had the clot shot fk off you are a danger to me maybe I should follow what the Batshit Loony Australian government are doing and have a sign on my front door that leaves no room for misinterpretation ,

      BEEN JABBED ? THEN FK OFF please .

    267. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 1.26pm

      I reckon you’ll have a job convincing the population as a whole – whether now or after indy – that Scotland faces absolutely no threats and can therefore afford to have zero or negligible capacity to defend itself. Even a country with no actual armed forces like Iceland feels it prudent to be part of NATO: why might that be do you think?

      Much like Iceland, Scotland probably isn’t at much risk from actual invasion by the Russians or anyone else. It does however have interests to defend, whether fisheries, offshore oil and gas installations or offshore wind or tidal power assets in future perhaps. Both the Irish and Icelanders have sent naval units to other parts of the world to help in disaster relief and refugee rescue I seem to recall, and the Irish armed forces, despite being small and with relatively limited capabilities have a long and proud record in UN peacekeeping missions.

      Virtually all independent states spend money on armed forces. On the face of it, Scotland is unlikely to be any different. Whatever some of the more outré contributors here might want, it’s the ordinary Scottish voters they’ll have to convince. Evidence so far strongly suggests that will lead to membership of both NATO and the EU, however much some people dislike both institutions.

      We can certainly spend a hell of a lot less than we currently contribute to the bloated UK defence budget (9% of £35 billion per annum is a lot of kit) and still be on par with neighbours like Denmark. It would also mean we could prioritise spending for maximum benefit inside Scotland, whether directly in areas like building ships for the Scotttish navy, spending on ancillaries here and/or demanding offset arrangements as many other states do when buying complex systems abroad we can’t produce ourselves.

      I’ve never understood why the SNP and broader Yes movement didn’t make more of the fact that they could essentially “magic” a £2 billion a year saving out of thin air purely on defence spending by cutting true % we spend in comparison with our contribution to the current budget. If nothing else it’s a huge hole in the supposed “spending black hole” the Britnat GERS junkies always try to frighten us with. I suspect it’s because they don’t have the folk with on-depth defence and security knowledge or more worryingly the desire to push the point.

    268. Ottomanboi says:

      You, SENSIBLE DAVE, seem to have forgotten Iraq and Afghanistan. Allied with US, that anglosphere buddyhood thing, the Brits attempted to «nation build» ie get rid of the regimes that did not suit. Both more or less failed. It was still a version of old style imperialism albeit with better tech.
      Libya, about which little gets into the English language press, is another mess from which the western culprits have scuttled away.
      The Brits in the mideast were as ruthless as the Americans. The Gulf puppets still provide service.
      What is interesting is the role of the EU in all this. Another yankee puppet.

    269. James Che. says:

      There are different types of invasion hatuey and you are well aware that you do not always need a physical army, but rather invasion of you’re personal space, free speech, the rights of men, women and parents,
      The right to privacy in you own home,
      The right to free travel without restrictions on the soil under your feet, in you’re own country.

      The invasion is not loud Revving tanks or airplanes of yesterday.
      It is by stealth, by our politicians.
      Locking a economy down, and if it didn’t break the system first time round they will do it again so they can monitor individual people’s movements like China with app track and trace to say wether you need to return to your house.
      And so they can bring in a different currency that is controlled by the state through direct access to you’re bank and personal details rather than individuals privacy banking, we know the reasons for online banking, online insurance, online councils, online dvla, and now the new online doctors and nhs.
      The drive to control parents especially women parents by diminishing their status.
      The drive to control people through climate change with exemptions for political leaders and their friends.
      And covid is another handy tool for control, what happened to people’s choices.

      The drive is to control, To control you and you’re information in one direction and has one purpose.
      You are either blind, indoctrinated, ignorant or one of them that want to control and reduce the rights of people.
      I know that a high percentage of people are aware of this new ideal at the top of society,

      And we are now aware that our once highly thought of SNP have succumbed to these ideologies and been indoctrinated.

      We may have been a bit slow to wonder why governments all around the world suddenly want to put everyone on a minimum wage, which will eventually be the maximum wage for everyone, is still about control.

      And I don’t see how you are so obstinately blind without you being part of it. Or indoctrinated.
      A few others here show signs of indoctrined thinking, quoting MSM propaganda and Scientology’s mantra.

      It’s a cult, it’s dangerous, and it’s snp.

    270. J.o.e says:

      Just had a telephone conversation with a nice African girl. Very nice voice and accent.

      Hesitant English so I had to help her through a few things.

      That wouldn’t have mattered if it hadn’t been HRMC and I wasn’t sorting out tax details.

      It must be hard finding people who can work from home in Britain who speak native level of English, eh?

    271. holymacmoses says:

      Sensible Dave says:
      6 September, 2021 at 2:31 pm
      Robert Hughes 1.55pm

      I think it would be fair to say that any Anglo/American imperialism has been in fast reverse for many years. Historic colonialism is now voluntary, democratic association. As an example, the majority of folk in Scotland would appear to prefer the Union to Independence and (as illustrated by indyref1 and the Rev’s subsequent graph of opinion polls)

      Hello sensible Dave.
      Still unable to look further than your nose end:-) I notice you didn’t answer my question from a week or two ago. . There have been MONTHS when Scotland was ‘YES’ . Consider the point in Scotland’s politics at which that happened. It HAS happened and WILL happen again quite soon – so gird the old loins old boy.
      Being a ‘sensible’ guy, you’ll be aware that there’s ALWAYS more than one way to achieve an aim.
      BTW Where is YOUR OWN research. It’s ‘sensible’ to be able to back up any statements you make with facts – and you’re only quoting ONE sourse. WHO ELSE would you like to quote as saying that Scottish people don’t want independence?


      January 2020 and April 2021 check the figures

    272. Republicofscotland says:

      “Even a country with no actual armed forces like Iceland feels it prudent to be part of NATO: why might that be do you think?”

      andy Ellis @3.01pm.

      Ermm.. I think the answers in the question Andy surely you didn’t miss it, did you?

      Iceland joined as a founding member in 1949, however your wild conflation on the matter with regards to Scotland falls flat on its face, as an indy Scotland WILL have a military, a navy, and of course an airforce.

    273. Republicofscotland says:

      “When exactly did the UK last seek to actually become the ruler of a foreign country by force?”

      Sensible Dave @2.31pm.

      Thirty-eight years ago Dave, when the British beat, threatened and intimated the people of the Chagossian Islands, to remove them by force to allow the Great Satan (USA) to have a airbase in place of the people. The Chagossian folk had their livestock and their pets killed in front of them by the British armed forces.

      Today there’s a secretive airbase there called Diego Garcia, where among other things renditions stopped off to refuel on their way to God know where. As for the Chagossian people they were absorbed into surrounding countries communities, usually slums, but many have died since their brutal eviction by the British.

    274. Republicofscotland says:

      Joe @1.40pm.


      There are many very rich folk of a certain persuasion, and multiple lobby groups, the biggest and richest being the AIPAC, that funds US senators and even US presidential campaigns and in return their agenda, or some of it is catered for, which I imagine is the security of Israel.

      In 2019 alone the US taxpayer gave Israel $3.8 billion dollars in aid.

    275. Pixywine says:
      I say if it’s safe enough for the pigs in blue it’s safe enough for me and you.

    276. Republicofscotland says:

      “2. The UK is one of the most successful countries in the world.”

      Sensibel Dave.

      Successful for whom, certainly not Scotland.

    277. Pixywine says:

      Robert Grahame. Which LBC presenter are talking about?

    278. Pixywine says:

      Sturgeon deserves to be sidelined. She’s a joke a nodding puppet with moving eyes in the pay of Globalist banks. She is a channel for her political masters. A cypher.

    279. Hatuey says:

      It’s often the case that all you need to do to win arguments in politics — and change public opinion — is to make arguments. That applies to NATO and much else.

      Ordinary people who rely on the BBC and other mainstream news agencies rarely get to hear honest debate. Their opinions are negatively impacted as a result.

      Academia is similar, especially when it comes to politics, international relations, and history; with students expected to imbibe, regurgitate, and pay homage to leading thinkers and their ideas rather than question them.

    280. Republicofscotland says:

      “The bottom line is the way we currently exploit the planet’s resources is unsustainable.£


      Undoubtably it is, I’ve read that peak fishing on a global basis peaked in the 1990’s. Other articles I’ve read claim that we are in the middle of the sixth mass extinction due to human activities reducing biodiversity on the planet.

      Will the Anthropocene extinction be as large as the Permian, I wonder.

    281. Pixywine says:

      “Vision and understanding beyond her years” Greta Thunderbox? I’m assuming knowing sarcasm there. When has Great ever explained the “science” with her understanding? She’s a media hype designed to make you believe there’s actually a “climate crisis”. She’s a sheepdog a work a hustle. Her speeches have no content. She has always had a large pr circus around her as she is essentially funded by the banks. Follow the money on climate change. And please stop falling for media hype. If anyone has learned anything about politics is that absolutely everything and everyone is worthy of re examination.

    282. Pixywine says:

      Whorattledyourcage. You’re ten years in the States would surely teach you that the USA by nature of its heritage is more nuanced than the crude Guardian caricature you delivered.

    283. Republicofscotland says:

      “to make you believe there’s actually a “climate crisis”.”


      Do you believe the planet is heating up?

    284. Republicofscotland says:

      Under Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots tenure as FM, ministerial position have bloated to their highest since devolution, Sturgeon has now appointed more ministers than Norway has, which is an independent country, before we know it Scotland will have more ministers than the Chinese Politburo.

      There’s always more room at the Scottish taxpayers trough under Sturgeon’s tenure, as long as you do as you are told by our beloved FM.

    285. J.o.e says:

      The best part of Jeremy Corbyn is his brother. The meteorologist who gets it.

      Or lets put it another way:

      The people who will benefit massively from trading carbon credits, the financial industry, have a huge motive for pushing global warming/climate change. These things are already listed on the CBOE.

      They will tell you that the sea levels will rise if you do not get on board their climate agenda while at the same time insuring and giving mortgages for beach-side properties.

      Climate change is the catalyst for another form of top-down global communism the like of which we have seen before with the banking establishment firmly behind it – ready to strip everything of worth from their target.

      That is not the same thing as being generally aware that we could be much better to the environment or the need to create sustainable solutions.

      Climate change TM is a racket prepared by bankers, funded by bankers and ultimately for the profits of bankers. The same people who don’t give a single rotten shit about the planet.

      Its fuelled by sheer greed and will to dominate. Its maintained by hapless naive ignorance.

      You folk need to be smarter than this.

    286. J.o.e says:

      Theres a general rule to follow –

      Whenever any scary ‘problem’ presented to you will give the financial world the opportunity to present a ‘solution’ that either spins them massive amounts of money and/or gives governments greater control over their populations it is your civic duty to question the shit out of it and not just sit their nodding like a trained dog.

      Not a very poetic rule but it works for me.

    287. James Che. says:

      I believe the planet might be heating up.

      But then I believe it has done it many times before as a natural event,
      A good clue is that Britain used to be in the ice age thousands and thousands of years ago, but it all melted,
      And that was before humans had any modern day blame for it,

      Again the climate under went a climate change in medieval times.
      And again in the 1600s And 1700s.

      But you will not hear about that from thunder box or the MSM and leaders.

      No wonder they are trying to erase history,

      And I believe the Romans mention a bad period of weather nearly 2000 years ago.

      I believe in planting natural forests we have cut down,

      I also believe it is wrong to kill animals in Scotland to make way for a safari park. Which is what is happening.

      Go make an effort to change you’re garden, and stop buying modern processed food in plastic packaging.
      Dispose of your tv and Internet safely and throw you’re mobile phone into the pile.
      Stop the wars that destroy wildlife habitats
      And chemical waste,
      Stop washing in shampoo and shower gels as these have very large chemical plants that stink, and cause water pollution,

      I saw a questionnaire done on the street, asking if people believed in climate change,
      They nearly all said yes.
      But when they were asked to give up their mobile phones, they all said no, they would have to rethink climate change and what it’s impact would be.

      When you genuinely want to live like a cave man get back to me,
      Then I will believe climate change thumpers.
      Meanwhile. ( IF ) you are are genuine believer start at home instead of screaming at everyone,
      Start with your plastic phone, your plastic tv, your plastic computer, your plastic shoes, you plastic coated fridge and the freezer, and demand milk be delivered in none plastic containers.
      Get rid of plastic tubes in hospitals,
      Stop heating the water in you’re house,
      Stop screaming about climate change until you make all those adjustments yourself.

    288. J.o.e says:

      @James Che

      My unfortunate experience with people who buy into the climate stuff is that they don’t really do much themselves to help their planet.

      They do want government to crack down on everyone else though

    289. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 3.53 pm

      “Iceland joined as a founding member in 1949, however your wild conflation on the matter with regards to Scotland falls flat on its face, as an indy Scotland WILL have a military, a navy, and of course an airforce.”

      It’s not a wild conflation though. As I’ve already stated I believe the most likely outcome of for an independent Scotland is that voters will elect a government which is broadly multilateralist and which will seek (and very likely quickly be given) membership of NATO.

      My point is that other futures are possible, some of which would be relatively cheap (the Icelandic or Irish options), some middling (the Danish option) and some more expensive (the Swedish option).

      Although I personally agree that an independent Scotland would need an army, navy and air force (including fast jets), there are plenty of people who will argue we can pare our defence forces back to a minimum and probably do without certain complex systems – like fast jets and some other offensive capabilities – in favour of pretty minimal self defence forces. In the end it will be up to Scottish parties post indy to set out their stalls and convince voters what we need and what we can afford.

    290. James Che. says:

      And then we will not even know you climate change thumpers are there, bliss,

      Meanwhile I will keep planting natural species of trees, from my own pockets, pick up the rubbish you all leave behind,
      And make a wildlife habitat for animals, amphibians and birds and insects that all create a eco system that works

    291. Andy Ellis says:

      Good grief…I see the moon howlers have now progressed from nativism and anti vax agitprop to climate change denial and – at least in J.o.e’s case – zionist conspiracy theorising.

      Presumably we’ll be treated to demonstrations that the earth is flat and the sun revolves around it soon too? It’d certainly explain why they faked the moon landings huh? I mean it’s patently made of cheese, right?

      Howl, numpties….howl!! 🙂

    292. Tinto Chiel says:

      James Che. 3.36: “The drive is to control, to control you and your information in one direction and has one purpose.”

      Your whole comment in general was an excellent contribution but the above quotation reminded me of sticker I saw applied to a public park noticeboard in a douce wee children’s park we take our grandchild to once a week:

      “The freedoms we give away today are the freedoms our grandchildren will never know we had.”

      Recent events Down Under indicate they are even further ahead of the authoritarian measures being adopted here.

      Does hope still lie with the proles?

    293. Republicofscotland says:

      “James Che. says:
      6 September, 2021 at 5:46 pm

      “I believe the planet might be heating up.”

      Right James which camp do you fall into.

      Do you fall into the I believe the planet is heating due to its natural cycle of heating and cooling, possibly in line with the number of spots etc.

      Or do you believe the planet is heating quicker than it normally would due to human activities.

    294. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      A 12 hour documentary based on the subject of Zionism, Bolshevism and related things:

    295. Ebok says:

      Republicofscotland at 5.06.

      I think our Kenny has made a little howler in his maths.
      27 out of 129 is not 27%, it’s 21%
      ROI, with 22% is actually higher than Queen Nic.
      The point is taken, however, that ROI ministers have a lot more on their plates.
      Perhaps we need even more ministers though, say 60 – 70, because our ministerial MSP’s clearly aren’t coping.

    296. Sensibledave says:


      People often tend to cherry pick data and stats to support their arguments (people like you).

      I haven’t. I have quoted the data given by the outcome of a democratic referendum together with data provided by the Rev’ – an honourable man that is a fervent supporter of Scottish independence.

      If that data isn’t good enough to agree upon as the basis for a productive – there really isn’t much more I can do is there.

    297. Pixywine says:

      Joe at 5:08 Hear Hear.

    298. Republicofscotland says:

      Andy Ellis @5.56pm.

      I agree with your last paragraph.

    299. sarah says:

      Ebok: Snap! Who is going to tell Kenny?

    300. James Che. says:

      It is a sad fact that those that scream loudest about climate change do not personally follow the mantra and live in the way that would help the planet,

      They just scream and shout because they have a platform to be with the in crowd, peer pressure or financial benifit on their property and in their pockets.
      Not one of them would own a phone, a computer or a vehicle if they were genuine, nor would they turn on their central heating and heat their water, never mind boil a kettle for an imported coffee or tea,
      Drink juice that uses other people’s water supplies by made by big cooperations .

      Usually they are the last people you see picking up rubbish at the sides of the road and in lay-bys,
      If they did, there wouldn’t be much time left to block the cities and towns where police have to come in [vehicles ] to corral them when things get messy when they vandalise buildings.


    301. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis. You should see me in my stahlhelm.

    302. Republicofscotland says:

      Ebok @6.51pm.

      Thank for that info Ebok, though as you rightly put it the point has been made.

      Incidentally I hope you don’t mind I checked your figure, and I got 20.9302325581%.

    303. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 6.46 pm

      If I had any lingering doubts about you that link probably dispelled them.

      The question is I suppose why someone with such far right views is posting BTL here?

      I mean it’s obvious there are some right moon howlers posting on here, but I doubt even most of them would be comfortable looking at the associations of that link above.

      I see @DefiantIrishman associating with characters like Ian Robert Millard, the unregistered barrister disbarred for his antisemitic and islamophobic tweets. From the stuff you post here I imagine you feel right at home in that kind of company….?–following-seriously-offensive-tweets.html

    304. Ebok says:


      Aye, I rounded it up.
      If you want to be exact, you tell Kenny!
      Right Sarah, sorted.

    305. ‘Pixywine says:
      6 September, 2021 at 4:48 pm
      Whorattledyourcage. You’re ten years in the States would surely teach you that the USA by nature of its heritage is more nuanced than the crude Guardian caricature you delivered.’

      It’s actually less nuanced, but I am a diplomat. And it was ten years eight months. 😉

    306. James Che. says:

      Tinto chiel.

      Very appropriate notice, and very wise,
      The world has gone crazy led by a few indoctrined people that do not seem to realise the first target of change that needed seen to was themselves.
      Training corses and funding in the right places,
      The Human Resources title, say it all. The new resource are humans.

      I do not think they have any idea how they have been manipulated to serve those even higher than themselves, visionary is not a label I would associate with them,
      puppets for unnecessary extremism change of Human Resources might however be more appropriate.
      We see this in action with the new version snp and greens,

    307. Andy Ellis says:

      @Pixywine 7.06 pm

      Given what we’ve just discerned from your mate J.o.e’s preferred viewing, and the company he appears to enjoy, it wouldn’t surprise most of us if you had the full set of paraphinalia to go with the Stahlhelm.

    308. James Che. says:


      I believe in the climate changing.
      But not indoctrined version.
      I think and act in a way that benifits the planet.
      Not globests

    309. James Che. says:

      Sorry for spelling mistake, read with the L removed from last word.

    310. Sensibledave says:


      38 years ago???? Ffs!

      No one in power now is accountable for things done by a government 38 years ago.

      38 years ago the whole world was different … ussr, China, South America, Middle East, Asia etc.

      Maybe we should hold Italy responsible for the Roman invasion of Britain? Or, more recently, ostracise Germany for their more recent “indiscretions”, Russia re Ukraine, taliban re Afghanistan??

      And, more parochially, the government in Scotland that spends so much time talking about independence, when all the actually evidence we have tells us, repeatedly, that most Scots don’t want it. Now there’s an example of an oppressive government trying to impose its will on the majority who are against?

    311. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis


      I randomly pick a post that viewable in the UK and you try to give guilt by association bullshit.

      What a disgusting, stomach churning fucking shill you are.

    312. Sensibledave says:


      Every time we strike a match or lay tarmac we contribute a smidge of human induced “heating”. That, factually, must be true.

      But clearly, humans are not responsible for all climate change. The planet has been warming consistently for a few hundred years, from long before “the experts” agree that industrialisation became an issue.

      Sadly, even the empirical all data given these days is suspect. You only have to look up how often Heathrow Airport apparently sets a new temperature record (weather stations should not be affected by man made changes to its micro climate).

    313. Republicofscotland says:

      “The planet has been warming consistently for a few hundred years, from long before “the experts” agree that industrialisation became an issue.”

      Yes Dave we know the planet warms and cools again naturally over an unspecified cycle of time, the million dollar question is, are we accelerating the process with our burning of fossil fuels?

    314. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 7.47 pm

      Well, whether you are “guilty” of being an extremist or not perhaps remains to be seen.

      From your posts it’s not hard to discern you’re pretty far right by the standards of most in here. Nobody’s buying the “I just happened to pick that far right link at random to a notorious 12 hour neo-nazi documentary”.

      If it looks like a stormtrooper, if it goose steps like a storm trooper…guess what…?

    315. Republicofscotland says:

      “38 years ago???? Ffs!”

      Dave tell that to the Chagossian people who are still alive, and their children who ended up in the slums of surrounding countries, after being brutally removed from their island homes, so the Great Satan (USA) could set up an airbase.

    316. Tinto Chiel says:

      @James Che. 7.23: yes, that term “Human Resources”…….

      Once we were customers, then we were “consumers” and last week I was called a “walk in” because I turned up at a restaurant without booking (or, as it is bizarrely called today, “pre-booking”).

      Given my age, I will be soon be a “worthless eater” (if I haven’t attained that status already), one of the huge herd whom the globalists dump their unpaid taxes on and hope we die young so we don’t compete too strenuously for any of the riches/resources they feel entitled to.

      Never mind, the First Minister’s heart “sings” at the thought of child vaccination. Whatever we adults think of the vaccines, attempting to foist them on those below legal consent who cannot understand the notion of informed consent is a clear indication she should be led away either by the polis or the men in the white coats.

      Of course, in Scotland 2021, neither is remotely liable to happen.

    317. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      No. I deliberately picked it. But the channel it is posted on is unknown to me.

      Im neither left nor right. Both political wings are odious. In practicality im happy to work in terms of markets, economics and business or im happy to put them aside and make things work otherwise.

      What I am is absolutely and totally against is being done to us and I make no apologies for that. This includes the shills for a criminal system that is now showing its true face.

    318. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 8.34 pm

      Ah, I see. Out of the mouths of babes indeed….!

      Tell us J.o.e which parts of Segment 8 of “Europa the Last Battle” on the Holocaust did you find most convincing?

      So are we to take it you’re a centrist holocaust denier then?

    319. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I am not impressed by the version we have been given as unassailable truth – at the point of a jail sentence in most of Europe and contrary to actual evidence.

      I’ll leave it at that

    320. Sweden voted the third most Democratic country in the world

      To vote in a Swedish general election, one must be:

      a Swedish citizen,
      at least 18 years of age on election day,
      and have at some point been a registered resident of Sweden (thus excluding foreign-born Swedes who have never lived in Sweden)

      to become a Swedish citizen,

      If you have lived in Sweden for five years and have a right of residence, a residence card or a residence permit, you may apply for Swedish citizenship.

      bloody moon howling bludenboiler nativists.

    321. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scot Finlayson 9pm

      Voting in independence referendums =/= voting rights of citizens in already independent countries. Blood and soil nativist is as blood and soil nativist does.

      Look at the table 3, pages 44-46 here and tell us how many of these examples used anything other than residence as a voting criteria. We’ll wait…..

    322. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 9pm

      Rather than refer you to a 12 hour documentary, perhaps you can just read this from Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek (the Elvis of cultural theory apparently).

      The question is J.o.e is are you an actual neo-nazi or just a…what was it…”stomach churning fucking shill” for them?

      “Everyone who is troubled by new anti-immigrant populism should make the effort to watch Europa – the Last Battle (Tobias Bratt, Sweden 2017), a 10-episode documentary. It presents in extenso the neo-Nazi version of the last hundred years of European history. According to the series, this history was dominated by Jewish bankers who controlled our entire financial system; from the beginning, Judaism stood behind Communism, and the wealthy Jews directly financed the October Revolution to deal a mortal blow to Russia, a staunch defender of Christianity; Hitler was a peaceful German patriot who, after being democratically elected, changed Germany from a devastated land to a welfare country with the highest living standard in the world by withdrawing from international banking controlled by the Jews; international Jewry declared war on him, though Hitler desperately strived for peace; after the failure of the European Communist revolutions in the 1920s, the Communist center realized that one had first to destroy the moral foundations of the West (religion, ethnic identity, family values), so it founded the Frankfurt School whose aim was to pronounce family and authority as pathological tools of domination and to undermine every ethnic identity as oppressive.

      Today, the line of argument in Europa continues, the Frankfurt School efforts are finally showing results in the guise of different forms of Cultural Marxism; our societies are caught in eternal guilt for their alleged sins, are open to unbridled invasion of immigrants, and lost in empty hedonist individualism and lack of patriotism. This corruption is secretly controlled by Jews like Soros, and only a new figure like Hitler who would re-awaken our patriotic pride can save us… When one watches this spectacle, one cannot avoid the impression that, while the authors went much further than our average racist populists would be ready to go, we are getting in Europa a kind of “absent centre” of multiple communitarian-populist movements, the zero-point towards which they all tend and at which they would converge.”

    323. Merganser says:

      Great performance by Edinburgh University on University challenge tonight. Cambridge well and truly stuffed.

    324. John Main says:

      So now we are talking about what armed forces an independent Scotland will need.

      I guess your answer will vary, depending on whether you think Scotland is too wee, too poor, etc. or whether you think Scotland is hoaching with valuable resources.

      Seems to me that if you want to push the latter narrative, or the idea that WM won’t let Scotland go because Scotland is so rich it is bankrolling England, then if only for consistency, you have to admit that an Independent Scotland will be faced with hostile actors who will always want some of the booty for themselves. Ergo, we had better tool up.

      But in between the posts about defence, I find plenty of posts about the coming climate holocaust. It is the inability to put two and two together when discussing this that puzzles me most.

      There is little doubt that as Africa continues to turn into a dust bowl, and as Southern Europe burns, and that as human populations continue to grow by tens of millions each year, that vast numbers of people will soon have no choice but to be on the move.

      Now we can respond in a number of ways to this. Pretend it won’t happen, although it is already happening. Blithely decide that all that make it here are welcome in Scotland. Or look at how we can control our borders and our inshore waters.

      I think we will need a navy. If so many of the BTL posters here get their way and the UK divorce is an acrimonious one, and we end up sharing our only land border with an aggravated and hostile rUK, I think we will need an army.

      Not a few countries are already ”weaponising” unwanted populations by forcing them across land borders into neighbouring states that can’t or won’t keep them out. It would be very comforting indeed to believe that could never happen here. Sadly, the “it could never happen here” defence is looking very threadbare these days.

    325. James Che. says:

      Tinto chiel.

      The problem is the men in white coats are locked up and the mentally challenged are running the asylum.
      And the men in blue coats think of those that pay their wages are now the enemy.

      And scientists are now leaders that have never been voted into politics.

      Where think tanks are selected for a certain outcome running of the puppet governments.

      The world is back to front and upside down. So a number at the top can control the human race ( note all inclusive) and financially benefit themselves.

      The laws that are in place for protection are being ignored,
      And new made ideological laws for control magically phiff into existence.

      No wonder the older generation are also being targeted, they still remember when right was right and wrong was wrong, and were trying to hang on to sanity.

      It is wise not to succumb to the inculcate of the indoctrinated cult of today,

      For some of them do not know what they are doing, while others are well aware.

      Stay true to the way of the world you knew, as most parents and grandparents should. As I do too.

    326. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      I doubt you will believe this, but I try hard to take a nuanced, middle-of-the-road position on many things.

      “Anti-immigrant populism” doesn’t particularly surprise me. It’s Pro-immigrant populism that continues to be the mystery.

      I can remember (just) my school days. I was interested in technical subjects, science, and science fiction. Ideas about the future were widespread: lunar bases, fusion power, flying cars, electronic advances. Not once were we ever invited to look forwards to an improved world of the future in which large numbers of people from other countries had moved to live here.

      What I can remember, is my anti-colonialist conditioning, which is with me still. It impressed upon me that large numbers of people from one country moving to another country in order to avail themselves of its opportunities and wealth is a bad thing.

      But enough theory. In the real world right now, thousands of Scots are seeing significant pay rises because the EU citizens who were working alongside them prior to Brexit and Covid have gone home. I am sure you will join with me in celebrating that.

      Those pay rises coming next to the last bastion of the blue collar working classes, the drivers. Yet more to celebrate, IMHO.

    327. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 10.03 pm

      I’d need to see receipts for these alleged advantages for ordinary blue collar Scots workers due to the flight of EU workers. I’d have thought the self inflicted damage of brexit as a whole will dwarf any such gains. I’m not sure the exodus of many workers we needed – and are obviously finding hard to replace – is anything to celebrate: emptying shelves and shortages tell their own story.

      I imagine there were already a fair few people coming to the UK and Scotland even in your school days – unless you’re pretty ancient! I’m not sure everyone would agree with you that it is a bad thing for people to move from one country to another to “avail themselves of its opportunities and wealth”.

      Presumably you’d accept that generations of immigrants to our country have positively contributed to our society, wealth and development too, just as the many Scots who emigrated to the rest of the world did in their destination countries?

      If people are against all immigration, they’re going to have to explain what happens when we have shortages of labour and skills we need due to our ageing and decreasing population.

    328. David Caledonia says:

      Slovenian philosopher, what next a billionaire east ender called Loadsa Dosh lol

    329. David Caledonia says:

      I never read many posts, and i am certainly not going to read the long dreary one’s

      Life’s to fecking short to read all that long winded piffle

    330. Tinto Chiel says:

      @James Che, 10.02: yes, to adapt a cynical phrase, keep your children close, keep your grandchildren closer. That should take up most of my declining years.

    331. David Caledonia says:

      Scotland is a great little country, we even have running water in our houses, and electricity
      I have been in countries where if you wanted a bath you filled a bucket with water and washed yourself down, and that was considered a bit of luxury living
      Scots live like millionaires most of them, and we still bloody moan about our lot, we don’t even begin to understand how lucky we are in this beautiful country where nobody needs to starve

    332. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      Thanks for your response.

      “Presumably you’d accept that generations of immigrants to our country have positively contributed to our society, wealth and development too, just as the many Scots who emigrated to the rest of the world did in their destination countries?”

      Does the one not balance out the other? If the emigrated Scots had stayed, would we have needed the generations of immigrants?

      Were we not told at the time that we had surplus populations that were best sent away around the world? Were the governments of the immigrants not likewise telling their citizens that they had surplus populations that had to be shipped out?

      Personally, I believe that one of Scotland’s enduring handicaps is that far too many of her best and brightest left. It seems obvious to me that the positive contributions you refer to have been a poor substitute. We just have to look around to see that.

      “If people are against all immigration, they’re going to have to explain what happens when we have shortages of labour and skills we need due to our ageing and decreasing population.”

      Automation and AI, coming to many of us very soon. You should also perhaps explain why a decreasing population is a bad thing. A decreasing population helps every one of the environmental discussion points referred to recently BTL here.

      Asimov observed in the seventies of the last century: There is no human freedom that is increased when the population increases.

    333. I do find it funny, from an ironic point of view, that certain people have never figured out that hanging round on the net all day and night, spewing your sniffy, ‘superior’ views is…

      …ah,. why bother even commenting on the mental fitness of constant net dwellers, and how their need to either conquer or gain approbation from others is a direct comment on their mental and emotional health, and length of time on their hands. Nobody ever convinced anybody of how ‘wrong’ they are on the net, especially on a site preaching to the converted, and nobody ever will. 😉

    334. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      6 September, 2021 at 6:41 pm

      ….Right James which camp do you fall into.

      Do you fall into the I believe the planet is heating due to its natural cycle of heating and cooling, possibly in line with the number of spots etc.

      Or do you believe the planet is heating quicker than it normally would due to human activities.

      I fall into the camp that is appalled at the prospect of gorillas, rhinos, elephants and rhino’s all being hounded to extinction. Our seabirds are starving because we have emptied the seas of fish; from the minuscule sand eels to the 30 ton Humpbacks, and sharks butchered in their thousands just for their fins.

      The natural habitat of virtually every wild species is in serious decline, with multiple species already extinct because their natural habitat was destroyed.

      Our bees and butterflies have been disappearing for decades because of the pesticides and organophosphates in the pollen and nectar they eat are killing them.

      It hardly seems to matter whether humans are accelerating Climate change. Guilty or not guilty, we’re sure as hell responsible for wrecking everything else. As a species, we are having a devastating impact upon the creatures who share our planet, and we simply shrug our shoulders when another species succumbs to our insatiable greed and genocidal tendencies.

      The hypocrisy is stifling, because if humanity was to find a humble earthworm wriggling in front of a robot camera on planet Mars, the planet Earth would go absolutely bananas. We’d have manned flights on their way to Mars within weeks. But as the mighty and spectacular tigers and Jaguars disappear from Earth, the chainsaws and logging machines keep chugging away and don’t even pause for breath.

      I’m very selfish. I want our oceans to have whales in them. I want our landmass to have acre after acre of jungle / forest / savanna which nature has been honing to perfection for millions of years. I like seeing the sky full of birds and knowing that those birds aren’t wracked by starvation.

      There isn’t a single creature on the planet plundering the Earth like humanity does, and frankly it’s nauseating. For Christ’s sake, if you’re consuming a natural resource give it a chance to recover. If it’s not recovering, then stop using it as a resource.

      I don’t like the Planet’s new management. It’s going to end in tears.

    335. David Caledonia says:

      And don’t tell me about starving kids, I was unemployed years ago with two kids, me and my wife never had one day where our kids went hungry or did not have a good pair of shoes on their feet
      Years ago I seen a boy going to school with plimsoles in the middle of winter with snow on the ground

      His father liked a drink, he could not afford to drink
      if he bought his son a pair of shoes

    336. David Caledonia says:

      Ohhhh ffs, the heating of the planet, wars all over the place

      Ohhhhhh my aching arse !

    337. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Climate change…

      There have been around 25 glaciation cycles in the past 2.5 million years.

      Each cycle lasts around 100,000 years – 90,000 years of glaciation and around 10,000 years of inter-glaciation – we live in the inter-glacial that started around 11,500 years ago… According to the bible, around the time of the garden of eden.

      As the glaciation receded, it deposited nutrients in the soil, which resulted in bountiful greenery (the Garden of Eden?).

      As we work our way through the inter-glacial, we use up the nutrients in the soil, resulting in lesser and lesser harvests. Less greenery to absorb CO2.

      In the decades before the end of previous inter-glacials, there were drastic climatic changes, like volcanic eruptions, wildfires, tsunamis and so on.

      The trigger point appeared to have been an atmospheric CO2 level of around 210 parts per million. Currently, the planet is at around 270 parts per million.

      So ‘climate change’, as we are experiencing now, could be a precursor to the next ice age – particularly if all that fresh water being dumped into the North Atlantic from melting glaciers halts the Atlantic Conveyor.

      Further reading…

    338. Scott says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      6 September, 2021 at 11:19 pm

      As the glaciation receded, it deposited nutrients in the soil, which resulted in bountiful greenery (the Garden of Eden?).

      The garden of Erin more likely…in the land of…(or Isle of) the Gaels. Ireland is Isgael.

      That’s what theology has taught me…

    339. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Can’t be arsed with the slobbering Zizek. He writes not a bad overview though. One definite inaccuracy is ‘and only a new figure like Hitler who would re-awaken our patriotic pride can save us’. Im not sure where someone can get that impression?

      I suppose the time can be taken to watch and use the information presented as basis for personal research. It is not a perfect documentary but an introduction to look more into what is taboo due to decades of brainwashing.

      Keep throwing things at it though – your track record of backing every single globalist, establishment, anti-nationalist, anti-human point of propaganda and attacking any questioning of it will probably encourage more to take the time to learn for themselves.

      As for neo nazi’s – they are mostly degenerate scum. But im not phased by this because you were calling me names simply for pointing out holes in the government narrative around covid, so I wear anything you call me as a badge of honour you disgusting excuse for a human being

    340. holymacmoses says:

      Sensibledave says:
      6 September, 2021 at 6:55 pm

      People often tend to cherry pick data and stats to support their arguments (people like you).

      You’re not sensible Dave – you’re lazy.
      AND you:
      don’t think,
      won’t think
      can’t think
      because you can’t BEAR to contemplate possibility that Scotland shall become

    341. cynicalHighlander says:

      Gaggle gaggle gaggle.

    342. Graf Midgehunter says:

      If ever the Rev needed a reason to completely shut down WOS and bugger off to new pastures, then this thread has to be the one.

      Apart from a few/some good steady thoughtful people like Breeks, BDTT or Tinto Cheil etc., the site is just bedlam. Stuffed full of loonies, Brit Nats, anti-vaxers, conspiracy lovers, deflectors and downright thick as mince brain-dead.

      The integrity of the site is being shot to bits and that’ll be the end of it.

    343. Hatuey says:

      “thousands of Scots are seeing significant pay rises because the EU citizens who were working alongside them prior to Brexit and Covid have gone home. I am sure you will join with me in celebrating that.”

      Yay! Three cheers for inflation. It is, after all, a given that a general increase in wages without a corresponding increase in productivity will result in inflation.

      Funny to see what Brexit is bringing out of the woodwork though, even here in Scotland. These sort of arguments were associated with groups like the National Front not so long ago.

      I tried to warn Alf Baird what his nationalism would lead to — I’m sure most of you witnessed those exchanges. Well, here it is.

    344. Hugh Jarse says:


    345. President Xiden says:

      The integrity of the site is being shot to bits and that’ll be the end of it.

      Oh come on, it’s not like the site has entered into a sharing arrangement with the Greens.

    346. Sensible Dave says:

      Holymacmoses 11.54

      You’ve not being paying attention have you!

      I do not care, one way or the other, whether Scotland becomes an Independent country. I do care about democracy though.

      Simply because I give you information that does not support your position (i.e. truth), doesn’t mean I am against your position. Its realism.

      Why isnt Ms Sturgeon pushing for indyref2? In my view, its simply because she believes it can’t be won any time soon. As discussed previously, the No camp currently have too much ammunition.

    347. John Main says:

      @HaHa Hatuey

      Sorry to hear you can’t stomach the thought of thousands of your fellow working Scots getting a much-needed pay rise.

      Maybes you are still lamenting over the disappearance of your EU friends and colleagues – such a better class of people and so much more in tune with your refined and superior world view.

      Tell me HaHa, what are you on this site for? Do you understand that the purpose of Scots Indy is to better the lives of the Scots?

      We have all had a good run HaHa. For decades we have conspired with globalised big business to drive up their profits and drive down wages and conditions for working people. Sure, we disguised what was going on by pretending to support airy-fairy ideas like open borders, diversity and inclusion, but we all knew at heart that we just liked banking the savings we made by not paying a fair wage to the people doing the work. Just so long as it wasn’t us personally replaced by an Eastern European, or us juggling three zero-hours contracts on minimum hourly rate when we used to have a steady 40 hours PW job.

      But now, some workers are seeing some improvements in their wages. We have to pay more as a result, just as we have to pay more for every worthwhile improvement under the sun. Just a little bit of the race to the bottom has been reversed.

      So to hypocritical carpers like you Haha, I say tough shit.

    348. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Correction to my 11:19pm comment.

      I typed,
      “The trigger point appeared to have been an atmospheric CO2 level of around 210 parts per million. Currently, the planet is at around 270 parts per million.”

      That should read,
      “The trigger point appeared to have been an atmospheric CO2 level of around 290 parts per million. Currently, the planet is at over 340 parts per million.”

    349. Willie says:

      Seems that the arch Brexiteer Sir Tim Martin ‘s Brexit supporting company Wotherspoons has in the light of extensive press reports issued a press statement to say there are no beer shortages…… or to be more correct no beer shortages due to Brexit.

      Seems that although they say they have plenty of beer they then say they don’t not because of Brexit but because of industrial action at a brewery, industrial action in delivery and shortage of drivers, 400,000 of them no less across Europe and the World.

      So there you have it beer shortages that don’t exist but when they do, it’s nothing to do with Brexit.

      Turkey’s who supported voting for an early Christmas in their political pub propaganda,I wouldn’t spend a penny in this pub chain.

    350. Effigy says:

      Wish you could read and think Mr Sensible.

      No country has trashed their economy more than your
      Tory Westminster pals.

      Managing Covid after ignoring the Cygnus Exercise not having the right
      PPE kit or enough of it to support epidemics.

      Not being able to purchase PPE killing NHS staff.

      By making foreign NHS workers unwelcome we lost them in their thousands.
      By stopping nursing grants for studying and by capping their pay to give them
      a 15% pay cut by inflation they wonder why we are short of 50,000 nurses and
      Many thousands of doctors.

      The U.K. has the worst Covid death numbers in Europe, even with the 20,000 excess deaths removed and hidden.

      The U.K. has the 4th highest Covid infection numbers in the world with only the massively populated
      countries ahead of them.

      So the Tories have spent? No the Tories have racked up unimaginable debts that Scots will pay for
      over generations. If you think massive levels of debt are good, go buy yourself a Ferrari and drive
      yourself down to England to live.

    351. Ruby says:

      Things seem to have gone quiet on ‘The Big Break Up’ book front.
      I had a wee look to see what was happening. I wondered about legal action.

      The book is already in the bargain big. Reduced by 50% on Amazon.
      Only one review which I think is very accurate, except perhaps for the last line.

      ‘The book is a classic example of the trashing of a nation’s champion to remove him from the struggle for equality and full civil rights. It’s no more than a rehash of false evidence made at Salmond’s trial recycled to seem truth rather than the false accusation and exaggerations concluded at his court case. The rest is cut-and-paste hack journalism. – the British state at work.’

    352. David Caledonia says:

      The integrity of the site has been shot to bits

      What does that mean, it means somebody has just noticed what has been going on for some time now, that the site is full of yappers with nothing new to contribute, trying to convince people how clever they are, aye feck off with that one

      I wish Johnny Rotten was on this site, then it might have some worthwhile insights to read and converse with

    353. Sensible Dave says:


      I’m not sure what your rant about the NHS has to do with the state of the economy after the last 18 months or so?

      You wrote “So the Tories have spent? No the Tories have racked up unimaginable debts that Scots will pay for
      over generations.”

      Its hard to know where to start with that.

      Yes, factually, the Tories have spent … billions and billions.

      Yes, factually, the Tories have racked up enormous debts that we will all be paying for in the future.

      What was the alternative? Not pay furlough? Not give grants to businesses that were forced to close?

      By all means make arguments against the government, or indeed any government, but at least have the grace to present us with your alternative plan.

    354. Ruby says:

      ‘Sinister Dave’ wins the gold medal for flame-baiting again this year.

      ‘Sinister Dave’ this site’s ‘Number One & Very Best Flame-Baiter’.

      It’s thanks to you that he is so successful.

    355. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 11.35 pm

      The way you come across certainly lends weight to the argument that you are if not an outright neo nazi, at least a fellow traveller though doesn’t it? Ordinary folk in normal discourse don’t react in the extrem ways you do, or throw the epithets you clearly enjoy using about just because you disagree with them. “Disgusting, stomach churning shill” and “disgusting excuse for a human being” just seem so wildly over the top that it’s unsurprising ordinary folks would look more carefully at your output as a whole.

      Trying to frame your recommendation of a widely de-bunked neo nazi conspiracist “documentary” doesn’t make you edgy or suggest that you’re trying to get people to “think outside the box”, it simply exposes your far right beliefs and inability to carry on a civilised debate. You’re hardly alone in that BTL here now of course. The place is over run with fringe elements tub thumping about their hobby horse issues, whether they are vaccine deniers, climate change deniers or blood and soil nationalists.

      None of it gets any more convincing for its constant repetition, but experience suggests you can’t kill a bad idea. The only people buying your alt-right, anti establishment, ant globalist snake oil are a small coterie of conspiracy theorists who are so divorced from reality that they’ve somehow convinced themselves they are the mainstream and enjoy widespread support. Such delusional thinking is more to be pitied than parodied of course, but it’s still fun to point at them and laugh.

    356. Canada voted fourth most Democratic country in the world,

      who can vote-Canadian citizens

      Who can apply
      to become a Canadian citizen, most applicants must

      have lived in Canada for at least 3 out of the last 5 years (1,095 days)

      Canada has two official languages: English and French. If you’re 18 to 54 years of age on the day you sign your application, you must show that you can speak and listen at a specific level in one of these languages.`

      bloudensouil navitists frothing nazis.

    357. Breastplate says:

      You said,

      “I do not care, one way or the other, whether Scotland becomes an Independent country. I do care about democracy though.”

      “Why isnt Ms Sturgeon pushing for indyref2? In my view, its simply because she believes it can’t be won any time soon.”

      So Sensibledave, after years of explaining, you still don’t get it.

      Referendums are not won or lost, a referendum is a measurement of the Will of the People, it is the democracy in action that you insist you care about.
      Anyone that cares about democracy will be happy that the Will of the majority is given precedence over the minority no matter what group one happens to be in.

      That many people are selfish bastards and only care about themselves and getting their own way is of no surprise but it will explain the nonsense of winning and losing at referendums.

      Campaigning or arguing against referendums is anti democratic, we should have a referendum as often as is practicable.

      So Dave, even though this has been explained to you yet again, no doubt it will make the same journey through that empty vessel of a head, in one ear and out the other but let me simplify the message.

      Denying a referendum is anti democratic.

    358. Liam Fox tells the Commons that we should not forget that `United States are a force for good in the world`

      Boris agrees.

      a `force` for their `own` good more like.

    359. Republicofscotland says:

      Ian Lawson blows the lid off on the woke taking over the SNP.

      “Please remember as you read this I am not supposed to have these documents and you are not supposed to know this content. My thanks to the brave SNP members who supplied this information to me.”

    360. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      So Dave, even though this has been explained to you yet again, no doubt it will make the same journey through that empty vessel of a head, in one ear and out the other but let me simplify the message.

      Denying a referendum is anti democratic.


      Ever considered that ‘Sinister Dave’ may not be human?

    361. Breastplate says:

      The Tories had already managed to double the National Debt since Labour left power before this pandemic.

    362. Breastplate says:

      The reply isn’t necessarily for Sensibledave but to anybody else who might believe this codswallop.

    363. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I am indeed a rude hostile bastard. It’s what happens when you are constantly fighting against popular delusions and being called names for it. My first ventures onto this website were simply met by a wall of hostile progressive left shitbags who use weight of numbers and prepackaged MSM arguments against ‘right wingers’ like me. Unfortunately for them I love conflict and im better at it than most. I also hate 77th types and other assorted PR shills who are here to break any kind of sensible consensus that goes against establishment narratives, using the same kinds of tactics as each other – which is why I detest you.

      Besides I can afford to be highly disliked because I never intend to be personally involved with anyone here.

      Apart from my hostility I have been right about most things I have been warning people about. From the SNP (and their underlying agenda – which isnt just anti nationalist but critical theory inspired poison), to the use of LGBT to cause division and strip rights, to the fact that hate speech law was put in place to pave the way for the dropping of our borders and the importing of massive amounts of foreign people that will displace scots from housing, jobs and welfare. I was pointing out the economic backdrop of the situation we are in now and who is making it happen, along with the bullshit around covid. The major thing I mistook was Trumps capacity as a disruptor to the established agenda. Turns out he likes the taste of Zionist genitalia as much as anyone else. Hey ho.

      The other thing I add is contributions to the solving of the plight of Scots against a political system that will simply never give them what they ask.

      So i’ll balance off my attitude problem with actual substance of content. My failure (and in some regards Mr Campbells also) is finding it impossible to warn people of something before they slap face first into it while ignoring everything you say.

      ‘it simply exposes your far right beliefs and inability to carry on a civilised debate’

      Like yourself who have nothing but ad-hominems for people who point out problems in the covid story while they worry about their family and the future? Get real, arsehole.

      As for your last paragraph I would encourage people to go looking at source documents and footage and not look up some slobbering detached communist academic for a rebuttal.

    364. Andy Ellis says:

      @Bloodandsoilnationalist 8.54 am

      Have you figured out how many countries who gained their independence in referendums used citizenship criteria for the franchise as opposed to residence criteria yet Scot? Anyone with ten fingers and ten toes could do it, but you still deflect by making a false analogy with the franchise for citizenship of countries that are already independent.

      Neither you nor any of your bloviating nativist mates have ever answered Stu Campbell’s questions from the beginning of this debate, when he rubbished the arguments and questioned why these regressive ideas were being advanced now and asked why we should change the 2014 pattern.

      I see you’re still coming up empty. Cut and pasting the citizenship criteria of every country still doesn’t amount to an argument, it’s just deflection from your regressive nativist views.

    365. Geoff Anderson says:

      “You are not supposed to know this….” . Quite chilling that intro….Sturgeon’s vision for Scotland.
      I wonder how long it will be before the knock on the door in the middle of the night and your arrest by the thought police.
      Alex Salmond, Craig Murray and Mark Hirst would no doubt argue it is already here.

    366. J.o.e says:

      ‘Stu Campbell’s questions from the beginning of this debate, when he rubbished the arguments and questioned why these regressive ideas were being advanced now’

      Link them and i’ll have a proper look later

    367. Hatuey says:

      “Do you understand that the purpose of Scots Indy is to better the lives of the Scots?”

      If you take say Scottish truck drivers, as an example, and drive up their wages, well, that isn’t good for the economy or Scottish people. A few thousand truck drivers may be better off for a while but you just increased the costs of eating and living for all Scottish people. And that in turn will drive up wages elsewhere. Crucially, productivity hasn’t increased one iota.

      That’s going to happen in other sectors too. In many cases they simply won’t be able to replace foreign workers, despite offering higher wages. Hotels, restaurants, bars, farms, etc., many will just close down.

      In politics we will see a very similar process of negative pressure exerted by the few with consequences for the many. The forces of xenophobic nationalism, racism, and “other-ism” generally — they’re poisonous and rarely lead to positive outcomes.

      Scotland and Glasgow in particular could be torn apart by these sorts of ideas.

    368. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 9.34 pm

      I don’t know Rev Stu personally but I doubt he’d feel much affinity with your weltanshauung somehow, or be happy to be lumped together with you as an example of folk who made predictions about our current situation and called it right. From what I’ve seen of Stuey’s output over a number of years, you and he are coming at things from very different places.

      There is no “sensible consensus against establishment narratives”. The sensible consensus rejects a scientific woo-woo pedalling climate change denial and opposition to vaccination. It also rejects TRA and gender woo-woo. The fact that you appear to be on the correct side on the latter, whilst encouraging in itself, only shows that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Most “ordinary voters” are quite capable of seeing through the bullshit. The SNP and Green’s will have to put up or shut up before too long.

      Perhaps people do have to actually experience how bad things will get before they are stirred to action. Time will tell. Most of us would I think hope that the action they are stirred to wouldn’t follow the kind of policies someone like you would advocate which are the antithesis of the progressive civic nationalism the majority of the movement still cling to, however much the minority of moon howling regressive fringe nutters posting BTL on here recently might have convinced themselves otherwise.

      I imagine few of the folk on here are or will ever be personally acquainted. That’s probably a good thing. In your case it’s definitely a good thing. I’m sure some will meet up at marches, party events or just socially now and then. I’ve chatted amiably with a number of folk from here and elsewhere online and would happily meet some of them socially. There are quite a few others I would cross the road to avoid, but that’s just life isn’t it?

    369. McDuff says:

      Graf Midgehunter
      You obviously consider yourself to be on some higher intellectual plane than the rest of us. Well you are not.

    370. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 10.18 am

      From memory they appeared in a Twitter thread which won’t be accessible any more. I definitely reproduced it in the BTL comments in one of the earlier blog posts on here which started the whole debate but have no idea which one.

      Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge or more time on their hands will be able to assist, or I’ll have a look this evening as it occurred to me earlier that it would be a good rejoinder to have the points at hand when playing “nativist whack a mole”.

    371. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      7 September, 2021 at 9:04 am
      Ian Lawson blows the lid off on the woke taking over the SNP…

      Wow. But even so, you could take that 40 page report and roll it up, hit certain people over the head with it, and still not shake them out of their delusions.

      Thank heavens for Ian Lawson’s “mole” but I hope they are careful. It’s always risky distributing documents because minor idiosyncrasies in the text can be planted and designed to trap the unwary, and right now the paranoia in the SNP would curdle the milk on your cornflakes.

      But seriously, how brazen does the betrayal have to be before the YES footsoldiers wake the fk up?

      Looking at you in particular Lesley Riddoch and Edinburgh YES Hub… The smoke is billowing out the engine room but it’s all just business as usual. Maybe you need to widen your sources beyond the staff canteen at The National.

      The only thing keeping me from absolute despair is the mere existence of ALBA, our candle in the darkness.

    372. James Che. says:

      It is strange to read the people that used to be the normal average every day citizen on the street or in the world in general whom got on with their normal day lives being attacked from all angles by the new age cult thinkers,

      How crazy is it that the the continued name calling and abuse of those that want an independent Scotland are being attacked on a Scottish blog site by every man and his dog by people setting out to demoralise the Scottish people,

      that Scottish nativesoiltypenationalist are degraded here but meanwhile the nativesoiltypenationist down south voted for Brexit and are complaining about immigration on tv louder than us in Scotland,

      Sensible Dave.
      Andy Ellis.
      Hatuey .
      Shocked .
      To name a few are obvious in the division creators, and do not attempt to disguise it,

      I listened to tinto chiel concerns yesterday for his children and grandchildren’s future under the new cult snp, and felt heartily for his worry,
      I did not hear one of the above have any empathy or care for him,

      And I have noticed time and again that the same repeat offenders attacking, any new thought towards gaining independence.

      The name calling and derogatory comments are against Scots that want independence, often telling us how we are to wee, to stupid and too poor,

      Demoralise the Scots who want independence seems to be the agenda here.

      I do not know about the other people in Scotland that want independence, but personally when I listen to those mentioned above, I want independence even more, if they are the future alternative

      And I know many many independence supporters that no longer bother to engage on this site due to the weaponisation of the brigade against Scottish independence.

      It is sad not to hold those conversations openly as we used to, but just because you tell us the Scottish PEOPLE do not want independence does not make it true,

      I am aware You’re trying to convince us it is true.
      Scotland needs to take a different route from your mindset altogether, you have convinced me of that more than ever,

      The brain game cult you and the snp are pushing is dangerous to the ordinary people of Scotland.

    373. James Che. says:

      As Scotland leads us down the totalitarian path, we will dig our heels in more and more.
      The more injustices done to the Scottish people,
      The more you try to demoralise the people of Scotland.
      The more become aware of the wrong road being travelled.

      We may not stand up and physically fight as you seem to be encouraging and are vamping up.

      There are alternatives,
      And no, we do not have to explain them to (you) the opposition to independence of Scotland.

      In fact to do so would be stupid.

      You are of more help being derogatory and attempting to demoralising the Scots.

    374. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 12.01 & 12.26 pm

      What gives you the right to assert (for that is all that it is) that I, or anyone else lacks empathy or care for the plight of others, or their concerns for the future and that of their children James? I don’t have to agree with someone’s opinions to include them in my general hope that achieving an independent Scotland will improve all our lives and prospects.

      Perhaps you’re right that there are people who no longer post for the reasons you outline. I’m just as sure there a lot of former posters who are horrified at the kind of regressive, small minded and frequently abusive folk on here pushing fringe beliefs like nativism, anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers. Fringe views like that would always have gotten short shrift before: sadly the lunatics appear to have taken over the asylum since Rev Stu announced his intention to wind WoS down.

      None of these groups represent the mainstream view: they are fringe cranks who get butt hurt when called out for their latter day flat-earth views. It does you and others who agree with you little credit to try and tone police this place above virtually any others.

      Some of those you mention may well believe that the Scottish people don’t want independence, but don’t presume to put words in to my mouth, particularly when you’re in total error.

      You assert you are trying to introduce new thought and take a different route from “our” mindset, but what does that amount to? Apparently so far it amounts to depriving non-native Scots of the vote, woolly ill-defined and intellectually incoherent plans to assert our sovereignty via some undisclosed route, talking up opposition to Covid vaccination and denying that climate change is really a thing.

      Talk about a basket of deplorables. Look at some of the roasters like J.o.e pushing links to debunked neo-nazi documentaries: these are the folk you’re lining up with. you’re not helping the cause of independence pushing for these policies you’re harming it.

      You don’t represent the mainstream or anything like a majority: you vocalise inchoate rage and have chosen to identify with an extremist fringe who want to abandon progressive civic nationalism and replace it with a deeply regressive, inward looking, narrow vision that has less hope of being realised than the Scottish Tories have of winning power.

      Rev Stu was right weeks ago when he attacked those advocating an abandonment of the 2014 franchise: if that’s the kind of Scotland you want you can keep it. Many of us won’t vote for it. Luckily you have negligible popular support. Good! Long may that continue.

      For as long as this site stays live I’ll carry on arguing my case and I’ll do it inside Alba too as a founder member to ensure it doesn’t end up in the hands of the kind of cultists who derailed the SNP, or in the hands of the fringe extremists and regressive nativists posting in here who have abandoned civic nationalism and sound more and more like they fancy parading shirtless round Holyrood with a buffalo head-dress on.

    375. Breeks says:

      How about following the Norwegians example and establishing a Scottish “Statoil” Company for Energy, eh Scotland?

      Get stuffed says the SNP. Promises? What promises?

    376. James Che. says:

      I am now in fear of alba gaining groun if you’re part of it..

    377. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Im looking forward to you (or someone) posting Mr Campbells thoughts on the issue of immigration and civic nationalism.

    378. James Che. says:

      Yikes, remind me not to join Alba if you’re the standard.

    379. J.o.e says:

      Until then I can only conclude that those who can’t see the difference in circumstances now compared to 2014 is either willfully blind or part of the ideology that is pretty much corporate globalism with a smiley progressive face.

      Im intrigued.

    380. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 1.46 pm

      Trust me James, if I thought for a nano second that Alba would represent the values of the assorted nativists, climate change deniers and anti vaxxers bumping their gums in here I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

      If Alba does make progress it’ll be in spite of you and your mates, not because of them.

    381. Hatuey says:

      There’s a reason I very rarely engage with James Che. For the same reasons, I don’t engage with lampposts. That’s probably a poor comparison since lampposts at least provide a little light.

      This nativist club has some interesting members. I think we can rule out the possibility of them splitting the atom.

      If one of them managed to string a viable sentence together, it would be considered an explosive development. Little wonder that they put such emphasis on the ‘mither tung’; that’s their Manhattan Project.

      Still no update on who can and can’t join this club.

    382. James Che. says:

      Listen numpty I leafleted for Alba, missing meals, missing family phone calls etc for a week or more to my feet were hot, while my body was frozen in driving rain.

      But that is something you have just put me off doing in the future,

    383. J.o.e says:

      Right now Scots have to win a battle against a fake, twisted progressive ideology pushed on us that seeks to degrade us nationally, economically, demographically, spiritually and intellectually before we can look at winning any kind of political battles. Not only this but we have the steady stripping of rights and liberties under these new plague laws that could see damage and death brought to many via unsafe medication.

      I have no interest in any would-be leader or party who do not explicitly recognize something like this as our actual lived reality and make it their 1st duty to defeat. I won’t waste my time.

      They are either not up to the task or, like the SNP, a party to it.

    384. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 1.47 & 1.50 pm

      Doubtless Rev Stu can speak for himself if he is so inclined. Certainly from his comments relating to the plans to change the 2014 franchise, he was having none of it.

      I don’t think anyone is denying things have changed in the intervening 7 years, least of all Stu: I think the point was rather that there appeared to be no strong argument – and even less appetite – to abandon the 2014 precedent, and that doing so would probably alienate as many (if not more?) voters than it gained, quite apart from being a terrible “look” and rejection of the whole civic nationalist concept which had been front and centre of the pro-indy sales pitch for so long.

      In all the weeks since not a single proponent of nativism has mounted a credible counter argument.

    385. James Che. says:

      I know you do not understand,
      The Scottish people are fed up being bullied, pushed around and told what to think and how to think, of being spoke down to, how to act, how to become servile.

      And you have shown that you display all those attributes, over a good few months on this Scottish blog site.

      You’re arrogance in calling Scots natives if they do not agree with you,
      You’re arrogance at calling Scots anti-vaxers if people are ill, worried or cautious for their children.
      And you’re arrogance at calling Scots climate change deniers when most Scots live in a more natural way in their country.
      You’re arrogance at categorising any Scot in Scotland that does not agree with you if evidenced by you’re demoralising attitude bares it’s own fruit.

      You’re a kettle calling the pot black when you have a go at just everyone here,
      There are none so blind as those that cannot see themselves.

    386. crazycat says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 11.04

      I believe these are the tweets to which you are referring. As you say, they are now inaccessible, but I copied and saved them – as a thread, with a link only to one of them – together with a response:
      Kings Over Spotland@KingsSpotland·2h

      Fuck ethnic nationalists. Seriously, fuck them. We make a big song and dance telling people to come to Scotland, we’ll welcome you as one of our own, we’ll put the kettle on, we’re not like those racist English. But now you want a *vote*? Piss off, foreigner.

      “No taxation without representation” was the cry that famously liberated one country from UK rule. But now some of us want to tax immigrants but deny them a say in the country’s future. Bollocks to that all day long.

      I’d have loved to win the referendum in 2014, like we would have done if we’d applied blood-and-soil rules to the franchise. But to have Scotland reborn as a racist country would have been an intolerable price.

      Fiddling the franchise was despicable and wrong when the UK did it in the Brexit referendum, and it would have been no different for Scotland.

      Replying to @KingsSpotland
      Those stats – that we would have won if only Scots were allowed to vote – were delivered under that franchise though. Who’s to say if the franchise had been “Scottish born only” a large enough percentage of Scots wouldn’t have been scared off and voted no?

    387. crazycat says:

      @ Andy Ellis / me

      The reply tweet still exists, and is dated July 4 2021.

    388. Confused says:

      competition for wingers

      since this is now “the andy show” we should all try to adopt the ellis house style

      use words / phrases like
      nativist, ism
      tub thumping
      blood and soil
      blut und boden
      blut und bloden with the proper umlauts n shit
      moon howlers

      extol the moral purity of civic nationalism

      the horrors of ethnic nationalism

      and explain how all the refugees throw away their korans on that leaky zodiac and get right into locke as soon as they hit our shores

      or why the international community wont like something or other (- but we can count on the votes of Upper Volta and Burkina Faso,surely?)

      act like a sanctimonious prick and frame your arguments as moral absolutes

      invent new words and phrases andy might use – here are a couple of mine

      “anglo-frei” – the ethnic cleansing/removal of the english retiree and holiday home owners

      anglosung – the final solution to the english problem, planned at a bar on the royal mile, in secret, with no notes

      campervan-nacht – the mass slashing of tyres of englander camper vans all across the north coast 500

      winner of this comp gets a full length leather trenchcoat from Hugo Boss

      – the runners up will get an armband, embossed with the slogan “lazy nazi trope”

      (NB trope is a word only used by guardian writers, here I appropriate it under fair use rules)

    389. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I have a great respect for Mr Campbell, even if I am pretty much on the opposite side of the political spectrum in many ways.

      A few more journalists like him and we would be in a very good position in terms of taking on the bullshit.

      However what you are doing now is taking his arguments and hiding your own flawed position behind them, using whatever Mr Campbell has said as your armament, a kind of holy scripture for civic nationalism.

      Please produce for me what he has said so that I can actually address it or at least put it in your own words.

    390. J.o.e says:


      Thanks. Ill get a response to this later.

    391. Nally Anders says:

      Meanwhile under SNP Scottish Schools Guidance, kids basically being groomed.

    392. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 2.02 pm

      For pity’s sake, what are you… a petulant eight year old? You remind me of these supposedly pro indy nutters who used to insist that because some random in the street or online had crossed them they were going to vote No instead of Yes.

      Even assuming you’re on the level, anyone who would do what you’re proposing because of what 1 person said to them probably lacks the mental capacity requirements to be outdoors on their own without supervision, let alone have a vote.

      Get a grip.

    393. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nally Anders, the word ‘groomed’ has occurred to me on more than one occasion . What the devil are the parents playing at ? The Teachers? – forget the SNP they are now a hideous joke.

    394. James Che. says:

      Has it occurred to you or hatuey that the actual people of Scotland might like to make some of the big decisions effecting the future of their own country for themselves, for their children and their grandchildren,

      All these big issues should be put to the people of Scotland, let them have a voice.

      That is what happens when Scots are bypassed,
      it make us want independence.
      We are fed up being preached at. Fed up being told by others how Scottish people think,
      It is exactly that superior arrogant attitude put down to the mindset of Scottish people that drives independence for Scotland home.

    395. Andy Ellis says:


      Many thanks! I couldn’t even remember when they were from! 🙂

    396. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 2.22 pm

      You don’t speak for the Scots people. Your views may align with a small minority but they certainly aren’t representative or popular. I’m not bullying anyone or telling them what to think. I’m as entitled to my views as you are entitled to yours. Nobody is trying to silence you or say you can’t have an opinion.

      We’re allowed to disagree, even trenchantly: that such disagreement comes as something of a shock to you or that you see it as being talked down to or being somehow unacceptable comes across as pretty pathetic, particularly on this forum given its history of pretty direct and forthright exchanges, and given the background of the person running the site. Dry your eyes, and take some deep breath’s. If you still find yourself hyper ventilating, and the kitchen is too hot for you, best find an exit, eh?

      I’m not tarring “Scots” as a whole with your regressive beliefs. I credit them as a whole with more sense. When I talk about the nativists, anti vaxxers and climate change deniers (oh, and the neo nazi’s now) I’ve gone out my way to say I think you represent a small fringe of moon howlers. I couldn’t have been much plainer. Don’t have the front to try and paint me as not supporting independence, or of lumping all Scots in with your woo woo beliefs.

    397. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 2.29 pm & @ confused 2.28 pm

      Given crazycat’s helpful linking and saving, this could be interesting….! 🙂

      Perhaps we can add “ethnic nationalist” to the list?

      Still, nice to see I’m in good company and aligned with Rev Stu. Everything I’ve seen in the weeks since and all the outrage BTL from the “little Scotlanders” still hasn’t addressed, still less refuted, Stu’s original rejoinder.

      One wonders if that might be because you don’t have any answer, or because you are in your heart of hearts ashamed by the regressive nature of the answer you do have?

      *Not J.o.e obvs, he patently has no shame…but perhaps there’s some hope for the rest of you…?

    398. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks @11.11am.

      Sadly as Iain Lawson says, and you and I know, many pro-indy Scots won’t wake up to this, they’ll just carry on thinking Sturgeon is the bees knees.

      It doesn’t help that Sturgeon’s paid for National newspaper has a front page headline today saying “Plans For a Brighter Future” and a piccy of Sturgeon the Betrayer below it smiling, the indside story doesn’t mention independence once.

      The SNP are keeping the majority of the pro-indy masses placated with the odd competent policy, meanwhile they’re cementing their position in government by virtually ostracising those who want Scottish independence, stuffing the NEC with the woke, and threatening those with prosecution who try and report or dig out the truth of what’s really going on within the party.

      Does anyone here actually believe that the woke nonsense will stop at the introduction of the GRA and HCB, I for one certainly don’t.

    399. Breeks says:

      You know what I think is punch in the stomach ironic?

      It’s all the “Both Votes SNP” brigade being so toxic towards ALBA and Alex Salmond, but the irony bit being that for they fear they had of ALBA, I am reasonably convinced that Alex Salmond and ALBA keeping the SNP honest about Indy would NOT have been contentious and acrimonious because Alex Salmond never in a million years wouldn’t he have let YES disintegrate to such a disjointed and chronic state.

      The fear and antithesis they feel towards Salmond doesn’t take account of Alex Salmond himself.

      All Alex Salmond would have done is hold up a mirror to let the SNP see it’s own reflection, and it’s that reflection which scared the shite out Sturgeon and her Taliban.

    400. Breeks says:

      Sorry folks, that comment flew too early. Pressed the wrong button, but hopefully you’ll get the gist.

    401. Pixywine says:
      Reports from the front line of covid care

    402. holymacmoses says:

      Sensible Dave says:
      7 September, 2021 at 7:16 am
      Holymacmoses 11.54

      You’ve not being paying attention have you!

      I do not care, one way or the other, whether Scotland becomes an Independent country. I do care about democracy though.

      BUT you refuse to see when democratic polls show that people DO want independence.

      IF you cared one iota about democracy, you would be looking with interest at the figures I have shown you and wondering why there was such support for independence at certain times over the past two years.
      A truly independent-minded (not independence-minded) person would have been curious and carried out some research into the suggestions raised.
      You are the very personification of ‘self-identification’ and prove just how misleading and deceitful such practice can be.

      You are NOT sensible – you are lazy and self-opinionated.

      You’re also, like all self-opinionated people, totally unwilling to learn. Most of the ‘Independence ‘ people on this blog know and understand the dreams, machinations faults etc of the many faces of their opposition – including people like you.
      You’re a one-trick mule and it’s not a clever trick – let alone an attractive one.

      I will carry on caring about democracy.
      While Westminster controls this country we can’t choose our own path. Therefore this country must regain Independence.
      That’s logical, progressive thinking.

      What I don’t care about is smug , small-minded, simplistic self-opinionated, self-infatuated pretendy, Holy-Willies who can do nothing but try and fix themselves by bringing other people down.

      Now stop wasting my time with your nonsense – I have more meaningful things to do.

    403. Pixywine says:

      David. John Lydon is an asshole actor. Everybody knows that.

    404. sarah says:

      What really gets my goat is this insistence on another referendum.

      In 2011 a referendum was a useful way to identify public opinion on what was a revolutionary proposition given that it was the first time in 300+ years that regaining independence was a possibility. The polls were at 28% in early 2014, I think, so the concept definitely was a minority view.

      But ever since 18.9.2014 independence has become the norm and all politics is in that context. We don’t need another vote to ask what we want as the independence parties have had a majority every time. The SNP could have made settled the matter once and for all by declaring e.g. the 2015 election a plebiscite.

      The FM is standing in the way of public opinion. She keeps coming up with excuses not to do anything. It is an outrage. Who does she think she is to have the right to prevent Scotland re-emerging as a nation state?

      The UK state will not voluntarily “allow” Scotland freedom. We just need people at Holyrood with the brains and the guts to declare our status now and get on with it. The people there now are pigmies, morally and intellectually.

    405. Pixywine says:

      David at 10:48. Spot on man.

    406. holymacmoses says:

      Does anyone here actually believe that the woke nonsense will stop at the introduction of the GRA and HCB, I for one certainly don’t.

      There is going to be a total breakdown in law.

      In the beginning was the WORD

      Word is law

      It’s words that make laws

      If you start making laws using words that cannot be defined – you can forget having a lawful society.

      A doctor can swear on oath as to the sex of a person he/she has examined

      A doctor cannot swear on oath as to the gender of a person he/she has examined.

      The individual is being allowed to make up their own rules and the law is conceding to their wishes.
      That way madness lies.

      I wouldn’t mind but I think that the people doing this are totally stupid.

      Nicola Sturgeon is trying to reconcile the whole to the individual instead of the individual to the whole and she’s not bright enough to realise where that path leads . The joke of it is, is that she’s a control freak and she’s busy giving over the reins of control to a bunch of selfie-seekers
      It’s a case of:
      ‘Father forgive them for they know not what they do’.

    407. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      7 September, 2021 at 3:17 pm

      Does anyone here actually believe that the woke nonsense will stop at the introduction of the GRA and HCB, I for one certainly don’t…

      I don’t even think Sturgeon or her loonies give a shit about GRA. The whole chapter and verse of this sleazy, pervy, garbage that makes any normal person’s toes curl, to me seems orchestrated for the sole purpose of wrecking Scottish Independence. It’s been a subversive insurrection from the outset, with the specific intention of destroying the integrity and credibility of the SNP, which turn, massively compromises Scottish Independence.

      I mean, for goodness sake, where, in the world, has ANY political party thought it was a good idea to sponsor men dressed up in drag to be waltzed into Scottish Primary School classes escorted by a sitting member of Parliament? I mean, that’s midlife crisis / mental breakdown kind of stuff… The career ending gaffe that see’s a drunken old sot put out to grass… but they’re serious about it??? Madness. Political suicide.

      Just join the dots, from the witch-hunt to “get” Salmond, to the SNP cocking it’s leg to piss all over Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, to spiking the guns of Joanna Cherry… I mean the litany of disastrous incompetence just goes on and on. Jailing Craig Murray. Abandoning land reform. Squandering renewables. Rolling over for Brexit and the sheer lunacy of trying to alter England’s Brexit.

      Sturgeon has played the lot of us for chumps, and she gets away with it because the SNP is awash with spineless sycophants who’s only collective skill is in rigging committees and infiltrating power bases.

      Begs the question, what would Sturgeon have to do, to have these dumb grovellers actually engage their brains and listen to the alarm bells ringing in their heads? Sturgeon has been CATASTROPHIC for the cause, by ANY yardstick. And if they don’t see that, then there’s something wrong with their radar.

    408. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e & others

      Below is the cut and paste comment from 13/07/21 @ 9.21 pm in response to wullie which reproduced the Twitter thread:

      ‘I can only refer you to Stu’s exasperated thread of 13th July on twitter:

      “If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side. If you want their votes, fucking well persuade them. If you can’t, your case is shit.
      And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.
      We debated this in 2011 and we came to the right decision. Nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view. You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they’ll vote the wrong way.
      As well as being morally wrong, it’s almost certainly self-defeating. The Scotland you’d be trying to sell people under that franchise is a very different place to the one we were advocating in 2014, and very much for the worse.
      That, of course, is true in many ways. If we got a referendum tomorrow I don’t in all honesty know if I could bring myself to campaign in it, because it’d be a *de facto* campaign for Nicola Sturgeon’s vision of a hellish, intolerant, incompetent and corrupt Scotland.
      But that’s not a decision I need to lose sleep over, because we’re not getting a referendum tomorrow, or next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.
      But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.” ‘

      Almost two months later and these words are still true. If you’re arguing against this I’m with Stu, and you are not on the same side as us. What your proposing remains morally wrong, self defeating and a different kind of awful vision. Bollocks to that indeed!

    409. Breeks says:

      ALBA is the same heresy to the SNP, which science represents to religion.

    410. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks @3.54pm.

      I think its common knowledge that nothing gets past the drawing board without Sturgeon giving it the okay first. I personally think Sturgeon is pushing this agenda because she’s part of it herself

      Sure it scuttles independence into the bargain as well, but why is Sturgeon so persistent on pushing trans/gay rights, if you yourself are not part of the movement. The SNP government must surely know that allowing blokes dressed up as women into women and girls safe spaces, and coaxing four year old children into sex changes if they show the slightest inclination on the subject, whilst excluding their parents will go done like a lead balloon with the majority of the Scottish electorate.

      Why endanger your party’s iron grip on power with this, if you’re not part of the movement yourself. Sturgeon has already alienated quite few women from her party, if she continues down this road, it will spell disaster come the 2026 elections for the SNP, a good marker will be next years council elections in Scotland.

    411. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Breeks 3:54pm
      You are on fire today. Agree totally with your post. In addition I would venture that Critical Race Theory is next on the SNP agenda. In country where the population is 96% White and 4% Bame. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be concerned with racial discrimination but should it be on the school curriculum when our educational standards are in freefall. Priorities would dictate otherwise. Child poverty, etc

    412. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @confused (2.28) –


      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    413. Luigi says:

      Well, folks that’s the lunatics well and truly in charge now. The Tartan Taliban takeover of the SNP and Holyrood is all but complete. It’s clear that this will set the indy cause back a few years (at least), but the big question is why has the FM allowed this to happen on her watch? Four real possibilities IMO:

      1) Lack of required confidence – terrified to loose her nice FM position after waiting years to achieve it. “Now is not the time” (and it never will be).
      2) Lack of required ability – indy is a nice idea, but she really doesn’t know quite how to pull it off. And the guy that did? Well, she ain’t exactly on good terms with him now. I wonder why.
      3) Lack of interest – perhaps she was never that really interested in independence, just a little act lasting a couple of decades. More into the woke nonsense now running the show.
      4) Lack of freedom to move – she may already be deep in the establishment pocket. Compromised? Somewhere, somehow, they got her, and when they own somebody, usually it’s for keeps. Compromised people can be kept on a very long leash but are always quickly pulled in when required.

      Of course, it could be a combination of two or more of the above. Take yer pick!. 🙂

    414. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 4.25 pm

      Passing strange that two moths on, none of the newly converted ethno-nationalists have addressed Stu Campbell’s points or cavilled at his use of the blood and soil epithet?

      I still can’t quite shake the idea that many of those pushing this line would be quite taken with the offer of that Hugo Boss trench coat. By your friends shall tell know them indeed….!

    415. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Luigi 4:34pm
      It’s option 3. I remember standing in an SNP office a couple of days after the referendum result. I was surprised by the reaction of 2 SNP elected members. They were not disappointed or bereft of hope like the letterbox volunteers were. It all it makes sense to me now. And of course if you have a winning formula, why change it?. On another matter, Good Luck to the Scotland Football team tonight.

    416. Sensible Dave says:

      Breastplate 8.56

      You wrote “Denying a referendum is anti democratic.”

      Hmmm. I understand the point youa are making, but it isn’t really true is it.

      In a circumstance where the evidence was that an overwhelming majority were in favour, or against, something of material importance, then I would agree with you.

      However, if the evidence suggested that only a small proportion of the population (say 10%/15%) were agitated about something, then is it undemocratic to deny a referendum? No it isn’t is it.

      So, probably, whether denying a referendum is “undemocratic” probably comes down to an unbiased view of whether there is evidence that a majority of folk are not being listened to.

      Sadly, from your perspective, there is no evidence that a majority of the populace want Independence. It is therefore not “undemocratic” to not hold a referendum when all the evidence suggests that there is not a popular move for changing the status quo.

      As I wrote above, we have the outcome of indyref1 and the Rev’s graph showing the results of al the opinion polls since then. The harsh reality is that there is no “will” for another referendum at this time – other than from the minority.

      So, in summary, and at the risk of being flippant, no one is “denying” a referendum on Independence any more than they are denying a referendum on free Ferraris for over the over 80s.

    417. twathater says:

      OFFS Andy pandy is now using the Stuey ,Stu ,Rev Stu , and best pal Stuey narrative to push his 77th brigade indy nativist bad, progressive all inclusive world civic nationalism good where ANYONE from ANYWHERE can tell Scots what is good for them and tell them to get back in their box ,Scots uniquely have NO RIGHT to determine their own future

      Andy don’t you know speaks with the authority of everyone else ,Andy has determined that HE is the majority,But Andy never produces the evidence that he has been elected as the majority , Andy who returned to his homeland in 2018 after the referendum has now decided that he is in charge , Andy who was so concerned and interested in independence that he set up his own website to fight for independence just like Study
      Andy who is so sure that his views are representative of the majority that he hasn’t posted or commented on other websites that were supportive of Prof Alf Baird’s proposals , but they were probably NASTY NATIVISTS
      I would rather have a plebiscite election , but if that is NOT available I would rather piss some people off than remain part of Andy ‘s union

    418. Robert Hughes says:

      Sarah @ 3.45

      Quite so .

      Abandoning the flawed and unnecessary Referendum route would not only allow energy to be deployed in other possibly more effective strategies ( for example those Breeks and others have been delineating for some time ), it would also end the bitter infighting around any future Ref franchise .

    419. Dan says:

      Re. The whole debate on civic nationalism and voter francise.

      I thought the whole point of Scotland returning to being an independent self-governing country was that we would then have the ability to elect governments that actually represented Scots’ views and political leanings.
      Just because those expressed democratic views and political leanings might not ultimately align with what certain folk want is by the by, or is it “Indy my way or no way”?
      As YES isn’t streaking ahead in the polls one might conclude that the majority of Scots don’t actually desire Indy if it involves the ideals and policies currently being pushed by the supposed “Pro Indy” established Parties.
      Disappointing as that may be for some, the reality is that it would appear the majority of Scots in general are still of a dour small “c” conservative persuasion, and are therefore not particularly enamoured with the “pish” ideals being punted by those currently in power with the assistance of those that are also pursuing and pushing the same agenda.

    420. Andy Ellis says:

      @twatheaded 5.07 pm

      You’re just embarrassing yourself at this point mate. The majority support Covd vaccination. The majority recognise that global warming is “a thing”. The majority don’t support changing the franchise and still support civiv nationalism, not the ethno-nationalism you and your regressive wee clique are circle jerking so furiously about.

      Scots have the same rights as everyone else. Virtually without exception, every other country which has had a referendum for independence has used residence not jerrymandered citizenship tests as the franchise. Still, you and you mates insist that Scots – uniquely – are incapable of achieving independence on the same basis, despite >80% of the population being native born. No amount of fixing will sort a lack of political bollocks, or the fact that the sales pitch is flawed. Changing the sales pitch to make it LESS inclusive and MORE regressive is only a winning strategy in the eyes of the comically inept.

      I’d rather have a plebiscitary election too. Indeed it’s much more likely.

      Why would I post on other sites that were supportive of Alf Baird? I think his proposals and “Scotland as colony” riff is as insulting to the real victims of colonisation as it is a cop out to excuse the political cowardice and ineptitude of Scots in their own country.

      However much you and your moon howling mates try to push this narrative that my opinions are 77th Brigade, or britnats in disguise, or not “real” nationalism, you’ve still failed to explain why they are exactly the points made by Stu Campbell above. Is he 77th Brigade? Is he a unionist shill or not a pure enough nationalist for you?

      I think you can imagine his responses, huh?

    421. Robert Louis says:

      For those foolish enough to actually think Nicola Sturgeon has any intention of holding indyref before the end of 2023, here is some help. The two key words today are ‘aiming’ and ‘if’.

      Cannot believe the folk getting excited about a non-existent referendum. If it is definitely going to be held, then name the date, start the campaign.

      It is abundantly clear Sturgeon has zero intention of holding indyref. The seriously gullible, will fall for her nonsense and disgraceful lies, yet again.

    422. Breeks says:

      Robert Louis says:
      7 September, 2021 at 5:31 pm

      It is abundantly clear Sturgeon has zero intention of holding indyref. The seriously gullible, will fall for her nonsense and disgraceful lies, yet again….

      SNP “Conference” just around the corner. Cue the referendum carrot needed for the faithful, and of course the media too.

    423. Robert Graham says:

      Pixywine thanks for the posts do you ever wonder if you are wasting your time ? When everything is out there it’s not being hidden I believe the ones who are manufacturing this hysterical dystopian fkn nightmare know the public are fkn stupid and as dumb as the day they were born .

      The WHO has been bought and sold and directed to do what it’s main sponsor Gates tells them

      I mean when did he become a medical expert maybe it’s because his Windows system is so full of intended in built viruses that are designed to spy on the users machine

      The CDC in the USA has just changed the definition of a Vaccine and the steps required for it to be recognised as a Vaccine all because this wonder serum can’t ever reach any of the previous requirements to allow it to be called a Vaccine

      The MNRA protein carrier during testing has never produced a successful result in fact every animal it’s been tested on has DIED now that’s a final fkn result.

    424. I`m sure Stu (40 odd years in Englandshire:) said he wouldn`t vote in an England Indy ref because he didn`t believe he (a Scot)should be given the franchise to intrude/violate Englandshire`s Democratic future.


      c`mon Scotland,

      and a happy moonhowl froth and Hoghoboss to all us ethnonativistbludensausaugeboilers froth froth spittle yawn.

    425. Luigi says:

      Aye, as time marches on, it is becoming increasingly difficult for the FM to sell the “indyref soon” carrot. It’s obviously being dangled yet again to keep the ignorant and blissfully unaware onboard. I do note that she qualified the promise with a “Covid allowing…..” get-out clause. Sneaky. However, it is a carrot dangle of decreasing returns. The rate we are going, there may be louder calls for a plebiscite election sometime soon.

      Now that would really scare the powers that be.

      Just sayin. 🙂

    426. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Scot Finlayson 6:46pm
      You are ahead of me on the drink front.I am waiting on the game starting. Stu living in England doesn’t bother me. We are working on our relocation and after last weeks holiday we are closer to a decision. Clue it’s not Scotland.

    427. Tannadice Boy says:

      *A further clue it’s not the United Kingdom.

    428. Ruby says:

      ‘Nicola Sturgeon tries to calm fears over gender recognition reforms’

      “We should never forget that the biggest threats to women’s safety come – as has always been the case – from abusive and predatory men; from deep seated sexism and misogyny;’

      We know that Nicola and now you are making it easier for them with your self-id nonsense.

    429. Ruby says:

      “That is why I can also confirm that in this Parliament we will invest £100 million to tackle domestic abuse and violence against women, and support the frontline organisations who help them.

      “And we will take account of the recommendations of the Working Group on Misogyny and Criminal Justice, which is due to report next year.

      “We will also take forward our ground-breaking Women’s Health Plan.”

      The problem with all of the above is WTF does she mean by women?

      What is the ground breaking Women’s Health Plan? Getting your cock removed and breast implants?

    430. robertknight says:

      Ruby @ 7:11

      “from abusive and predatory men”

      Would that include anatomically intact, abusive and predatory men who happen to wear lippy, a dress and adopt a female sounding forename, such as those individuals who have assaulted female inmates in female prisons? I think Nicla should be asked. Pity we don’t have any MSPs with the balls to do so.

    431. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon’s carrot for the indy masses via the SNP’s mouthpiece (the National newspaper) this time last year.

      We have truly been played as fools.

    432. Ruby says:

      robertknight says:
      7 September, 2021 at 7:19 pm
      Ruby @ 7:11

      “from abusive and predatory men”

      Would that include anatomically intact, abusive and predatory men who happen to wear lippy, a dress and adopt a female sounding forename, such as those individuals who have assaulted female inmates in female prisons? I think Nicla should be asked. Pity we don’t have any MSPs with the balls to do so.


      According to Nicola these men are women!

      Nicola Sturgeon will have a hard job calming my fears not just about her gender reform garbage but also my fear that she is totally insane.

    433. J.o.e says:

      So I have had a look at what He (thats Mr Campbell with a capitalised H for the benefit of Andy Ellis who might be as well be a preacher quoting the Word of Stu at this point) had to say in those comments about referendum and voting.

      To boil it down as simply as possible it comes down to disenfranchisement.

      The idea that we give only Scots the rights to vote in a referendum on Scotlands future would disenfranchise people who have legitimately made the country their home and contributed to it.

      It obviously makes more sense to have period of stay, residency status etc taken into consideration. But still there will be people who are law abiding, working and contributing left out of the political decision. This is disenfranchising them.

      So, under normal (2014) circumstances I find it hard to argue for anything other than a period of (legal) stay in Scotland will give them a right to vote in any referendum.

      But lets continue along this vein of disenfranchisement.

      Who is disenfranchised when the government of the day makes it a point of policy to mass import people into Scotland, give them financial aid, aid to find jobs and housing and also wishes to give these newcomers who have been deliberately brought here an equal say in Scotland’s future? What about when Scottish property is deliberately advertised so as to encourage English people to come?

      Were Scottish people ever asked? Was this ever mentioned as a point of policy and presented to Scots so they would be informed? Have we been told what the limit would be? Have we been told what would be done to mitigate effects on our services, house prices and job availability (especially given that the this was a real issue of the day not so long ago before the real changes started).

      Well of course the answer is no.

      To not limit the voting rights of newcomers in a time of unprecedented, targeted mass immigration is to disenfranchise Scots. Full stop.

      Couple this with the fact that the people least likely to vote for large constitutional changes are new immigrants with a totally corrupt establishment and media who are absolutely not above the lowest level of fear mongering to get the outlook they need and again we get back to Scots being disenfranchised.

      The demographic landscape is being shifted before our eyes and we are being asked to play along as if nothing is wrong.

      My honest heart felt opinion is that we have no reason to agree to anything now, on any basis, because we are literally having the means to democratically choose our future eroded by design. The franchise has been betrayed and we have no reason to respect it. At all.

      The seriousness of the situation is made even more clear when you consider that the people helping to facilitate this are the same ones who are destroying womens rights, forcing trans gender ideology onto children, destroying freedom of speech, locking journalists up and basically behaving like out and out tyrants, to mention nothing of the misuse of covid.

      Im not sure how detached from reality one has to be to not see what’s going on and to stick to the 2014 line of thought. It is literally a demand to obey the rules of a political establishment who are shaping the political landscape to ensure we fail.

      As far as I am concerned right now:

      Scotland is the land of we the Scots. We are attached to the nation by heritage, family, history and tradition. We have no other home in the world. Others are welcome here and should have full rights of citizenship afforded them but not when it is at the expense of the future of the Scots and not for the political expedience of our enemies.

      The people who disagree with this would probably never publicly disagree with an Indian or Nigerian saying the same about their own countries.

    434. J.o.e says:

      @Dan 5:27

      Great comment btw

    435. Nally Anders says:

      Spot on.
      According to St.Nik
      Transwomen are women, Transmen are men.
      That’s why she contends that Self ID won’t impact on women’s sex based rights. The term women is being extended to include men in dresses.
      Taken further does that mean the much lauded extra funds assigned to ‘womens’ health is actually to include trans health? A lifetime on cross sex hormones is not cheap.
      Baroness Kennedy is already on record saying any stand alone legislation for Misogynistic hate, will also include All women, including Transwomen.
      So there we have it.
      Surely it says everything that even the blonde Buffoon has dropped all this nonsense. There’s no votes in it but as Breeks suggests maybe that’s the whole point.

    436. Ron Maclean says:

      From this site btl a year ago;

      The political direction of the SNP is difficult to ascertain. There’s no obvious ideology. Despite the constitutional requirement it doesn’t look like independence is in its sights. I can’t remember the last time I heard Ms Sturgeon articulate the argument for an independent Scotland let alone describe how she sees its development. There’s no vision, no road map, no direction, no communication and no drive. In fact, no leadership. How will we answer the big questions? What currency will be used in an independent Scotland? What will an independent Scotland be like? Will it have a written constitution? Will we rejoin the EU? Who will inspire the grassroots? There are many more.

    437. Southernbystander says:

      J.o.e said (7 Sep 7:42):

      ‘The people who disagree with this would probably never publicly disagree with an Indian or Nigerian saying the same about their own countries’


      But J.o.e, as has been said before, India and Nigeria are independent states, Scotland is not. It is part of the UK. Anyone in the UK can live wherever they like in the UK, they are not ‘foreigners’ anywhere in the UK. I don’t think for one minute that the Scots I know and work with in England are foreign. The UK is their ‘home’, as it is mine and that includes all of the countries in the Union. It matters not whether they think of themselves as British, Scot or whatever as the they are UK citizens regardless. Not accepting this is being ‘detached from reality’.

      You wish it different of course but you cannot assume the position of an independent country and compare it with other independent countries before Scotland is independent.

      That does not mean I do not have understanding of the position of Scotland as a country with a small population next to one with a population 10x bigger and the danger of being ‘overrun’ by the (Unionist) English (voters) but the answer must be to persuade more Scots to want get out of the Union. All of these franchise arguments are based on *one* not that big survey (now long gone from the University website who did it I notice) that showed a small 2014 Yes win for native Scots. I would argue this is very dubious evidence that ‘we was robbed’. Yet it has become a mantra of incontrovertible evidence. It is nothing of the sort, and the data it is based on can’t even be accessed.

    438. Ruby says:

      Nally Anders says:

      Baroness Kennedy is already on record saying any stand alone legislation for Misogynistic hate, will also include All women, including Transwomen.


      Do you think that will mean that a ‘transwoman’ couldn’t be accused of Misogynistic hate?

      It’s a sad day when women in Scotland have to ask what Sturgeon means by women’s health?

    439. Dan says:

      @ J.o.e

      The comment was just me putting into words where I comprehend we are based on spending hours of my time discussing with, and importantly listening to, what actual real people in the course of their everyday lives think and have to say about how they see things.
      Whether that makes the content of my comment have more validity than that of someone who seems to spend all day on t’internet telling pretty much everyone they are an idiot and their views are wrong, I couldn’t possibly say…

    440. Republicofscotland says:

      A interesting angle on the Corona virus.

      “NEWLY RELEASED DOCUMENTS provide details of U.S.-funded research on several types of coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China. The Intercept has obtained more than 900 pages of documents detailing the work of EcoHealth Alliance, a U.S.-based health organization that used federal money to fund bat coronavirus research at the Chinese laboratory. The trove of documents includes two previously unpublished grant proposals that were funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, as well as project updates relating to EcoHealth Alliance’s research, which has been scrutinized amid increased interest in the origins of the pandemic.”

      “The documents were released in connection with ongoing Freedom of Information Act litigation by The Intercept against the National Institutes of Health. The Intercept is making the full documents available to the public.”

    441. J.o.e says:


      Im not assuming the position of an independent country.

      Im assuming the position of a people who are having their means to democratically choose their future undermined, along with their ability to look after their families and their prospects for a future while being told to accept it as normal.

      We simply cannot accept a situation where people are deliberately guided or brought to Scotland, one way or another, in order to flip the demographics, and therefore political outlook, by design and pretend this is normal and to be respected.

      Its not normal and I do not respect it.

    442. Southernbystander says:

      So you assume the SNP actively want to prevent independence by getting more English into Scotland? This would be a new level of conspiracy thinking to me. You have hard evidence that this is actually a deliberate secret policy?

      It may or may not interest you to know that personally I do see Sturgeon as pretty anti-English! Perceptions, perceptions . . .

    443. Southernbystander says:

      So, J.o.e, you assume the SNP actively want to prevent independence by getting more English into Scotland? This would be a new level of conspiracy thinking to me. You have hard evidence that this is actually a deliberate secret policy?

      It may or may not interest you to know that personally I do see Sturgeon as pretty anti-English! Perceptions, perceptions . . .

    444. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 7.42 pm

      You’re entirely free to think that people like me and Stu Campbell are “detached from reality” to think that the change of circumstances since 2014 doesn’t justify a jettisoning of the 2014 precedent, but where’s your evidence? Apart from a noisy claque of regressive ethno nationalists in here, nobody else is buying the nativist snake oil, sorry.

      The idea that there is some conspiracy to encourage English people to come and settle here to somehow dilute our “little Scotlander” purity is for the birds. It’s on a par with the brexiteer “we’ll be swamped” narrative. It’s is a crock of shit. If Scottish people are – as you appear to think – so exercised about these issues, then they know what do do.

      It isn’t a case of them being asked: the Scottish people endorsed the 2014 precedent by default. If you can convince them of your case, then go and do it. Doubtless some of the nativist knuckle draggers in here will support franchise restrictions, but you can expect lots of folk like me – and it would appear Stu Campbell – to campaign against you.

      As others have already pointed out, your attempted equivalence with Nigeria or India is utterly false. Those countries are already independent. Once again, you and your mates fail to address the point which has been made over and over again: virtually EVERY other independence referendum since WW2 has used a residence criteria, not “putative citizenship” criteria. Even the few that HAVE imposed a qualifying period have usually used 24 months.

      Interestingly, the ethno nationalists in here are all wetting themselves that it should be 10 years. I’m somewhat surprised they’re not expecting us to provide a modern day “Ariernachweis”? I seem to recall Germans had to prove purity of blood back to 1800 or 1750 if you wanted to be in the SS.

      How many generations purity do the ethno nationalists want us to provide? Does my English grandmother render me impure I wonder?

      The kind of Scotland you roasters want wouldn’t be worth living in. I pity anyone who is subjected to it in future.

    445. Tannadice Boy says:

      Anyway I put 20 quid on Scotland at 4 to 1. Cashed out at 50 quid. They are leading one nil. I am happy to pick up 30 quid profit. I was feart or pragmatic?. You should know the answer. Independence supporters are pragmatic.

    446. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 8:43 pm

      Interestingly, the ethno nationalists in here are all wetting themselves that it should be 10 years.

      Gonnae show us proof to back up that antagonistic and derogatory comment, or are you just posting shit you made up in your own head.

      Seriously, have you any self awareness as to how your modus of interacting actually come across? And to think you gave Cameron B Brodie a hard time…

    447. holymacmoses says:

      It may or may not interest you to know that personally I do see Sturgeon as pretty anti-English! Perceptions, perceptions . .

      I can assure you she’s not

    448. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 8.58 pm

      Periods have varied, but some of you nativist mates definitely proposed a minimum of 10 years. Feel free to go back over the BTL comments and find it.

      I suppose we should just be thankful they aren’t proposing DNA testing proving pure blood status back to when…1707, 1603, Bannockburn?

      I gave CBB a hard time because he was a zoomer who posted screeds of off topic nonsense and extraneous links. Most people agreed with me, including some of the moon howlers now calling for ethno nationalist franchise restrictions I seem to recall. It only goes to show that even roasters are sometimes on the right side?

    449. Tinto Chiel says:

      @RoS 8.24: thanks for that link to the article.

      Since Dr Fauci has repeatedly and vehemently denied any American funding of “gain of function” research in Wuhan at a recent senate hearing, it should be interesting to see exactly what is revealed in these papers.

      I’m sure the senator for Kentucky will be all ears…..

    450. robbo says:

      Well done Scotland

      Huge 3 pts

    451. Tannadice Boy says:

      Great victory for Scotland. The bairns will be singing Yessir I can boogie tomorrow. Some hope amongst a desert of hopelessness. Take note SNP.

    452. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 9:05 pm

      I suppose we should just be thankful they aren’t proposing DNA testing proving pure blood status back to when…1707, 1603, Bannockburn?

      …And there you go again. It appears you just can’t help yourself with trying to troll and antagonise folk with more made up shit which comes nowhere close to something anybody has suggested btl.

      And I don’t need to go back over the months of btl comments to know you were talking utter shit when you stated that those you have called natavists, ethno nationalists, and your other assorted pish, were all wetting themselves that it should be a 10 year residency period prior to being eligible to vote.

      If you’re such a supposedly erudite individual and obviously keen typist, your posts would hold more weight if you actually bothered to articulate in an honest and accurate manner, rather than embellish your input to the point it could be taken apart by anyone that can be arsed responding.
      It’s tedious as fuck reading your endless commentary when you continue and repetitively attempt to coral an array of views and opinions from different folk into one solitary grouping, which you then go on to goad in a derogatory fashion.

    453. twathater says:

      @ Andy Pandy and his fellow unionist pal big ears (SD)who are still pushing the same old same old unionist trope of you haven’t convinced enough of your fellow countrymen so you have failed , Andy Pandy’s words WE WUS ROBBED is meant to denigrate and ridicule , when Andy started posting he posted as if he were intelligent telling the body of the kirk that he had a degree in international relations (boy has he proved that with his endearing appeal for democracy on his terms)

      The school I went to taught the pupils that 53% was greater than 50% and obviously (to some)that would mean that Scots voting 53% for independence were in fact convinced for independence it was the other 47% of Scots who were not which when aligned with the non indigenous voters who believed in the lies defeated the CONVINCED
      But Andy Pandy and his fellow unionist big ears (SD) deliberately ignore any reference to the lies and corruption foisted on the voters for independence by their WM masters because it means that the 53% of SCOTS CONVINCED VOTERS were ROBBED

    454. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 9.59 pm

      Nobody if forcing you to read anything. When the issue was being discussed all the nativists were proposing criteria of more than 2 years. I remember it well, because I pointed out that it was out of sync with the few examples of other independence referendums imposing such criteria which were for 24 months. The nativists are the ones who are suggesting something out of the ordinary. You suggesting it didn’t happen means that you’re either lying, or simply weren’t paying attention. Either is possible given your MO.

      Once again, just like all the other moon howlers, you fail to engage in the questions posed by Stu Campbell 2 months ago. Whether it’s because you lack the wit to answer, or realise the real answer makes you look bad because it displays regressive ethno-nationalism is besides the point by now. You’re all beyond the pale as far as i’m concerned. As Stu said: we’re not on the same side.

    455. Andy Ellis says:

      @twathead 10.19 pm

      Read Stu’s Campbell’s words (I know, your lips will probably be moving: take your time, some of the big words might be hard for you). Inwardly digest. Come back when you’ve understood that you’re a regressive, ethno-nationalist.

      We’re not on the same side. 45% of Scots voted Yes. You don’t get to exclude people who live here you don’t regard as Scottish enough.

    456. Tannadice Boy says:

      100k fine for Police Scotland is not enough. I have commented before on the former Regional Police in Scotland being respected. Eg Tayside Police. The centralised Police Scotland is not. Another SNP mistake. And now they want weapons as if they don’t have enough already. OK I am fine with that as long as citizens have the right to bear arms.

    457. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Only really got time to have a quick read at comments. Considered responses will have to wait.

      Im utterly confused by you Andy. Do you ever re-read what you post? There’s an almost manic desperation about everything, exemplified by your complete fixation on ‘Stu’. There is pretty much nothing convincing in anything you post now. The odd bit of thoughtfulness is swept away in a manic drive to cram as much derogatory language (along with Big Stu and His gospel) as possible.

      Its bordering on insane. This isnt banter or an attempt to insult, im being genuine. You are starting to appear like a man with problems.

      Honest, well meant advice – calm the fuck down and drop the constant insults. You might want to let go of Mr Campbells nipples also

    458. Well done Scotland,

      i hope that doesn`t mean i am an ethnonativisthugobossadidass for celebrating my countries victory,

      i should realy commiserate with Austria for denying them points,

      beating other countries is such a enthno nativist hugo boss adidas frothing moon howling thing to celebrate ,

      we should lay down to other countries just to show them that we are not ethno nativists hugo boss/adidas,

      moon howling and frothing tonight in celebration of winning away from home,

      yes i have had some drinks,

      tennents lager
      and some Lagavulin 16yo.

    459. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 10:25 pm

      When the issue was being discussed all the nativists were proposing criteria of more than 2 years. I remember it well…

      Clearly you don’t remember it that well if you somehow manage to turn a desire for more than 2 years residency into wetting themselves if it were 10 years.
      You’re being disingenuous at best, or you’re willfully attempting to create an inaccurate negative picture with the intent to piss folk off, which will inevitably further restrict btl discourse as people lose the will to interact with your twisted and tireless narrative of how things are.

      You’ve been called out numerous times by many reasonable folk, but you still continue to doggedly operate with the same modus rather than taking onboard absolutely legitmate input from folk that have done far more in real terms for the Indy cause than you sitting on your arse posting on t’internet.
      Over the years:
      How many hours have you committed to going round the doors ensuring those in precarious positions in our society maintain their registration on the electoral roll when the instability in their lives has them moving around a lot.
      How many days have you spent campaigning round the doors in the numerous election processes. Sometimes in minus 10 temps.
      How many hours have you spent interacting with EU nationals to ensure they are informed about Scotland’s ongoing political machinations, and the settled status scheme.
      How many hours have you spent on street stalls actually campaigning and engaging with the public.
      How many hours have you committed to the actual administrative processes of attempting to keep a political party running and honest.
      How many hours have you committed to assisting and helping set up YES groups.
      How many hours have you committed to helping folk attend and run the AUOB marches.
      How many hours have you committed to organising events to give a platform to informed voices to convey to the public the many positive aspects of Scotland and how a return to self governance could improve our lot.

      Before you castigate and demean everyone last person that happens to hold a different view from your own, maybe consider that once you’ve won the internet and you’re the last man standing because everyone is shit compared to you, you’re going to have to pick up a hell of a lot of slack that us thick ignorant arseholes did.

    460. Grouse Beater says:

      “Nativists”? Sheesh!

    461. Hatuey says:

      It looks like the xenophobic nationalists have all run to the bunkers, pretending this is all simply a debate about the franchise. It isn’t.

      At the heart of all this there are some really unpleasant people with unpleasant views. They ask us to distinguish between good Scots and immigrants and to celebrate the deportation of people that we once welcomed here.

      Anyone who disagrees with that is automatically condemned as a ("Tractor" - Ed) of some sort, in league with Sturgeon, globalists, and the devil.

      I’d be the last guy to put Scottish people on any sort of pedestal but I think they’d reject this poisonous nonsense if you put it to them.

    462. Grouse Beater says:

      “45% of Scots voted Yes.” Andy Ellis 10.19pm


      45% of *people* living in Scotland voted Yes, the biggest majority Scots.

      Of the No’s, 35% wanted greater powers short of full autonomy; both were cheated.

      Of voting franchise: those of a colonial mind are usually quick to accommodate the impositions of the colonial power, either out of an inculcated sense of guilt if they try to exclude their usurpers – often regarded as their ‘betters’ – or a naive notion that a healthy level of equality will exist when the election is a free for all.

    463. twathater says:

      @ Tannadice boy 10.37pm These 100k fines mean NOTHING , you could make it £1million it would still mean nothing , because THEY don’t pay it WE pay it every fricken penny , also the platitudes that are rolled out all the time when these twats have made an arse of things ,”we apologise unreservedly” “lessons will be learned” and so on mean NOTHING to these people because it’s just arse covering and move on to the next fuckup

      When was the last time any of these arsewipes had the integrity , dignity or morality to fall on their swords , they are desperate to get the power and finance but when they cockup you couldn’t drag them away from the trough with a bulldozer

      The tories were always famous for their sexual proclivities as were the lib dumbs , Labour were more into graft and corruption and brown envelopes , BUT you have to hand it to the SNP they have excelled in taking over ALL the vices , they are the GOLD medalists of the corruption olympics

    464. Breeks says:

      Hatuey says:
      8 September, 2021 at 12:51 am

      At the heart of all this there are some really unpleasant people with unpleasant views. They ask us to distinguish between good Scots and immigrants and to celebrate the deportation of people that we once welcomed here.

      So where is your line in the sand Hatuey? Without being facetious, would the Germans occupying Vichy France be entitled to vote in local democracy? Obviously the answer to that is no, but because it’s a no, it’s implicit there’s a spectrum where immigrants are welcomed to take part in a democracy, and at the other end of the spectrum, colonial invaders who obviously cannot be considered part of the democratic franchise.

      So where does the distinction occur Hatuey? At what point does yes become no? When does something acceptable become unacceptable? What triggers the change? If there’s a wave of colonial immigration swamping a community, it’s obvious armed invaders preaching Lebensraum don’t get to vote, but does colonial occupation become legitimate and democratic just because it’s peaceful?

    465. McDuff says:

      Breeks 3.54
      Good post Breaks. What I still can’t get my head around is that Sturgeon supposedly has fought for Indy all her life yet on becoming leader she has done a complete reversal and is intent on destroying the movement. And she is doing it with the confidence,arrogance and assurance that she is protected.
      Add to this the utter silence from the vast majority of SNP politicians and you realise that they are finished as an independence party.

    466. Jan Cowan says:

      Chris, how could you do that to Hamish?!!

    467. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      8 September, 2021 at 12:51 am
      It looks like the xenophobic nationalists have all run to the bunkers, pretending this is all simply a debate about the franchise. It isn’t.


      It looks to me as if most everyone with the exception of about 4 guys the main ones being Joe, Andy & yourself have run to the bunkers.

      Not that many people want to watch a never ending ‘toilet wall pissing competition’ between two guys no matter what it’s about.

    468. Ruby says:

      ‘Alba party kept afloat by money from Salmond, PPE firm and loan’

      I’m unable to archive this Tom Gordon article at the moment.

      Is Tom Gordon working for the SNP or is the SNP working for Tom Gordon?

    469. Ottomanboi says:

      The nazis occupied about 60% of french territory the rest was the puppet state of the État français based in Vichy, roughly equal to the Midi, under Pétain which also theoretically included the territories of the overseas «empire».
      I am btw a non native who supports Scotland’s struggle for sovereignty even if many Scots struggle with the immensity of the idea.

    470. willie says:

      And so furlough is ending and tax is going up.

      Increased national insurance of 1.25% payable by everyone, including those working past retirement age to fund social care for the elderly in England.

      And another 1.25 percent onto the employers national insurance contribution.

      So, as furlough ends, tax increases for both the individual and the employer. And so, with employers currently having to pay 13.8% employers national insurance contribution, a mandatory employers private pension contribution of 3%, and now a further 1.25% ENIC later to be called a social security tax.

      Adding that up that comes to a whopping 18.5% that employers have to pay on top of an employees wages. A real tax on jobs at a time when employment is slumping and employers going bust.

      And in terms of employees. They have currently have to pay 12% on earnings above 12% on earnings above £9,500 a years and up to £51,000 – with a further 2% currently thereafter, and with a further 1.25% to now be added to all.

      So to add that all up that’ll be 13.25% on wages up to £51,000 and 15.25% on wages above that.

      And then there’s tax on wages. Let us not forget that and especially so in Scotland where we pay higher income tax to fund, guess what, better social care.

      Somebody is having a laugh. A big laugh at that. And no more than those like David Cameron and all the others in the jet set with their offshore tax exemptions.

      Ah how the coolies, to use an old pejorative word, have their backs burdened whilst the plantation owners live in opulence.

      And we Sturgeon, she’s leading the economic recovery, having one the covid battle. £100,000,000 to pursue bad men abusing women, new trans equality legislation allowing chicks with dicks to use the ladies toilets and other safe spaces, whilst we will all be policed by police and hate Crime Legislation and where the majority of Police want to be armed and carry hand guns.

      And maybe the last proposal, no doubt sanctioned by the government spin doctors, is the real deal. Get hand guns into our country – that’ll make our country a better place.

      Whooee Sturgeon, you’re the gal. Go for it Tex.

    471. Ruby says:

      ‘Nobody is forcing you to read anything.’

      It would be strange if you came onto Wings and didn’t read anything!

      What the above should say is

      ‘Nobody s forcing you to log in to Wings’

    472. Robert Hughes says:


      Doesn’t scan quite as well as the original Afro American reappropriation of a racial slur but you get the idea

      Funny when people actually think the names they use to denigrate others amount to anything more than a lack of imagination on their part

      Imagine going through life believing the labels you stick on people have anything at all to do with the people being labelled

    473. Pixywine says:

      So tax hikes to pay for completely unnecessary bank loans to finance Fascist lockdowns. I hope you’re all looking forward to October lockdown

    474. Pixywine says:

      Who still supports Tory lockdowns?

    475. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      8 September, 2021 at 8:14 am
      The nazis occupied about 60% of french territory the rest was the puppet state of the État français based in Vichy…

      Ha ha. With a bit of strained and convoluted argument I think I could just about bluff my way out of that, but you’re correct, and I do know Vichy France was the bit the Germans didn’t occupy, and I’ll concede that was a mistake in my argument . Nevertheless, I hope it doesn’t void the wider point I was making about the line to be drawn when one people encroach upon the living space of another.

    476. Pixywine says:

      People who bang on about “nativism” are over dozed on critical race theory. Crazy Sturgeonettes.

    477. Ruby says:

      willie says:
      8 September, 2021 at 8:16 am
      And so furlough is ending and tax is going up.

      Increased national insurance of 1.25% payable by everyone, including those working past retirement age to fund social care for the elderly in England.

      And another 1.25 percent onto the employers national insurance contribution.


      It seems for some strange reason the most important topic being discussed on Wings is ‘the franchise’.

      The franchise for a referendum that we may never have.

      It’s very weird!

    478. Alf Baird says:

      Andy Ellis @ 10:31 pm

      “You don’t get to exclude people who live here you don’t regard as Scottish enough.”

      You are beginning to sound rather like the oppressor, or at least his firm adherent, in this scenario. As Albert Memmi explains the position and diagnosis:

      “There undoubtedly exists – a certain adherence of the colonized to colonization. However, this adherence is the result of colonization and not its cause. In order for the colonizer to be the complete master, it is not enough for him to be so in actual fact, but he must also believe in its legitimacy. In order for that legitimacy to be complete, it is not enough for the colonized to be a slave, he must also accept this role. The bond between colonizer and colonized is thus destructive and creative. It destroys and re-creates the two partners of colonization into colonizer and colonized. One is disfigured into an oppressor, a partial, unpatriotic and treacherous being, worrying only about his privileges and their defense; the other, into an oppressed creature, whose development is broken and who compromises by his defeat. Just as the colonizer is tempted to accept his part, the colonized is forced to accept being colonized.”

    479. Ottomanboi says:

      Lockdown: an American penitentiary system term. Confinement to cells after prisoners’ riot.
      The use of the term in a self-styled democratic political system is suggestive of something more repressive than «quarantine».
      Lockdown and pandemic, labels on political cans of worms.

    480. J.o.e says:

      From my experience in certain other countries I can assure anyone that mass immigration is a means of asserting political control over, or weakening political control of the domestic population.

      Once you have a % of people in a country (the particular example I am giving of promised only a certain number and ended up with 10x that amount) it is very easy to stoke divisions and in the name of equal rights strip the native population of their sovereignty piece by piece.

      You end up with parliaments where those who support the rights of the growing minority end up as king makers, with the power to further enroach on the original population.

      Because the citizenship of the immigrants is based on government rules, and not on natural law and right of being indigenous to an area, they are much more easy to sway and coerce politically.

      Its basically a means of weaponising democracy against the people of a nation and it is a basic corporate globalist tactic and needs to be rejected.

      Even if people want to call you racist for it. After all – you arent the one using poor people from other countries as political pawns.

    481. J.o.e says:

      People who complained that coronavirus wasnt related to Scottish politics now complaining that the topic of political franchise in Scotland isnt related.

      I honestly wish I had an automatic filter for thick fucking twats

    482. J.o.e says:

      I hope with this information on tax that was posted above that people are starting to see the necessity of Scots acting to take back some control of our economy?

    483. Breeks says:

      It’s curious to note, the only movement Sturgeon’s SNP is openly hostile towards is a pro-Independence Party which pledged it’s support for an SNP Scottish Government, and an unassailable pro-Independence majority augmented by List Party Seats.

      Why the hostility? Because ALBA’s presence in Holyrood would see Sturgeon’s SNP defrocked and exposed as a disingenuous fraud.

      The SNP survives on nobody calling it’s bluff.

    484. Geoff Anderson says:


      Your post is incorrect.

      National Insurance contributions.

      “If you’re employed, you pay Class 1 National Insurance contributions as a percentage of your earnings up to State Pension age.

      If you’re self-employed, you pay Class 2 contributions at a flat weekly rate and Class 4 contributions annually as a percentage of your taxable profits.

      What happens at State Pension age

      You stop paying Class 1 and Class 2 contributions when you reach State Pension age – even if you’re still working.

      You’ll continue paying Class 4 contributions until the end of the tax year in which you reach State Pension age.”

    485. If a pervert goes round public places showing of his meat and two veg he will be locked up by the Scottish polis,

      if a pervert says he self ids as a woman he can wander round public places with his meat and two veg hanging free and have a Scottish police escort incase anyone tries to stop him.

      automatic self id is an abomination,

      all down to She/Her the Green Goblin and the clownshoe Humza.

    486. Ruby says:

      Geoff Anderson says:
      8 September, 2021 at 9:32 am

      Your post is incorrect.


      No Geoff it’s your post that is incorrect.

      Can I suggest you go back and read the post at 8:42.

    487. J.o.e says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      Just wait til the same consideration is given to the M.A.P’s

      You made a mistake though – the people in our government are controlled. They are not doing this by themselves and from their own initiative. There is a reason their strain of madness is so similar to many other governments all over the 1st world.

    488. Southernbystander says:

      J.o.e,(8 Sep, 08:57) said:

      ‘Because the citizenship of the immigrants is based on government rules, and not on natural law and right of being indigenous to an area’

      Quite a crucial point. But is there such a natural law? I don’t think there is. People have moved around this globe forever looking for something better, and that is just as ‘natural’. I agree people have also been hostile to that for just as long as they try and protect what they have and it is almost like that basic conflict is still playing out now. But it is not a right and wrong argument to me though, simply a practical one.

      I don’t see the world and humanity the way you do even though on a practical level I know you have to be sensible about immigration, or even about who gets a vote in something. The problem I have with the way you and some others on here see it (e.g. with all this English as ‘colonial occupiers’ stuff) is that its view of humanity is basically ‘us and them’, the desirable and the undesirable, based solely on where they come from, and that hardly ever leads to anything good.

    489. Ruby says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      8 September, 2021 at 10:01 am
      If a pervert goes round public places showing of his meat and two veg he will be locked up by the Scottish polis,

      if a pervert says he self ids as a woman he can wander round public places with his meat and two veg hanging free and have a Scottish police escort incase anyone tries to stop him.

      automatic self id is an abomination,

      all down to She/Her the Green Goblin and the clownshoe Humza.


      Not public places Scot just ‘women & girls only’ spaces.

      Self-id gives flashers carte blanche to expose their erect penis to your children when they are getting ready for swimming.

      Wondering why your teenage daughter doesn’t want to go swimming any more?

    490. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This study guide to a chapter of Marx’s Capital provides an interesting wee mixture of stuff, more or less relevant to a few topics covered lately.

      (The penultimate section, about ‘witches’, is well worth a look.)

    491. James Che. says:

      No matter which way it is twisted.
      The Scots should have the say on any franchise they choose, they also should have a say in the major issues like gender ID of their children being imposed, about immigration, about locked up citizens, etc,

      And someone above mention that we are all the uk.

      The definition of Scottish people being part of the uk originated from,
      A small number of England’s parliament financially paying a small number of Scotsmen to sell them a country.

      A country that did not belong to the particular Scotsmen that transacted the deal.

      The natives whom the country belonged to were not asked if they wanted to sell their country.

      So the natives never agreed to it,

      The natives objected by rebellion.

      But they were physically forced into submission by a army sent up to the Scottish Borders from England.

      Meanwhile the few greedy Scots men that had made the illegal deal feared for their lives from the natural born Scottish natives, So they went into hiding. Taking their illegal finances with them,

      England’s Parliament now wrongly perceived it had bought Scots men, Scots women, and Scots children in the sale of Scotland,

      This cannot be seen as anything other than gaining slaves, when you buy people financially without their consent.

    492. J.o.e says:


      You might have missed that I identify as red a squirrel and therefore I am allowed to be considered as native to these lands, with a distinction made to the ‘invader’ grey squirrel who is not native.

      I have done this because as a human it appears that I do not have that same rights as squirrels and that being native to a particular region is a factor reserved for the animal kingdom and not humans.

      There are such a thing as indigenous people. In fact most people in the world are still indigenous to the place that they have an ancestral and cultural attachment to and is therefore their natural homeland.

      The attempts to undermine this go hand in hand with corporate globalism and the undermining of the nation state and all the protections afforded by it.

      The efforts to turn nationality into merely a government piece of paper absent any natural biological links is in the same vein as transgender cult.

      You don’t have to worry about Engish people – I think they are a great people. Happily they also have a homeland all of their own where they get full democratic franchise all of the time. It’s called England.

      Mind you – it won’t be England once they no longer hold the demographic majority.

    493. Republicofscotland says:

      So Sturgeon has said that her party will set out out plans for a second indyref, Sturgeon added her party will start working on planning for the indyref, to be held by the end of 2023, as long as the Covid pandemic has passed, and there in lies the caveat, the get out clause.

      In the full page article in the National newspaper, Sturgeon reiterates again and again that the pandemic MUST be OVER, before she holds an indyref, however she doesn’t say whether it must be over just in Scotland, or in the UK or Europe or even the world before she holds it.

    494. Alf Baird says:

      James Che. @ 10:36 am

      “This cannot be seen as anything other than gaining slaves, when you buy people financially without their consent.”

      Correct, and that’s what colonialism makes a people, slaves, and what makes their independence ‘decolonisation’. Its about time more Scots understood what independence really is about:

    495. James Che. says:

      Alf Baird.

      So by logic, if the Scottish or English Parliament denies the present day slave trade of Scots in a sale from 1707 is not true,
      Due to the slave trade being abolished by law in Britain.

      Would it not cause a legal incompatibility for Westminster today?

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