Wings Over Scotland

Well, great minds think alike. I was just composing the following synopsis of what Sturgeon’s administration has done:

CHOSE to create an entirely new procedure, focussing exclusively on previous Ministers, rather than extending the existing Fairness at Work procedures which had been in place for years and had been implemented with exemplary stakeholder engagement.

IGNORED Whitehall’s Head of Propriety and Ethics’ concerns about developing a procedure to specifically apply to PREVIOUS MINISTERS ONLY.

IGNORED Police Scotland advice that the civil service were not qualified to investigate matters of potential criminality.

IGNORED Police Scotland advice that complainants of possible criminal activity should be signposted to trained and specialist advocacy and support services rather than handled internally.

IGNORED Police Scotland concerns about making the criminal investigation into Salmond’s behaviour public.

APPOINTED an Investigating Officer and Deciding Officer who had met with complainants to discuss their concerns BEFORE complaints had even been made.

IGNORED the wishes of the complainants who did not want matters to be escalated to the Police.

WITHHELD relevant documentation to the Court of Session during the Judicial Review.

WITHHELD relevant documentation from Counsel thereby disguising the defence against the Judicial Review was unstateable until it was uncovered by the Commission and Diligence hearing caused by the withholding of documentation.

IGNORED Counsel’s advice, formed even without the withheld documentation, that the ‘least worst’ option was to concede the Judicial Review.

WITHHELD documentation from a Parliamentary Committee relevant to its remit.

COACHED (at huge expense to the public purse) highly paid, senior Civil Servants how to handle questions from the Committee.

INTERFERED with the ability of the Committee to call witnesses and publish evidence freely obtained by it in pursuit of its remit.

THREATENED the Committee and witnesses with prosecution for disclosing or considering certain evidence which was already in the public domain elsewhere.

REFUSED to comply with Committee’s request to see legal advice despite being instructed to do so TWICE by Parliament itself.

And these are only the UNDISPUTED FACTS concerning the Government’s (and its agencies’) behaviour. Anybody who is at the head of an organisation that can behave in this manner is either grossly corrupt or grossly incompetent. In either case, there is no question that they can possibly be fit for office.

But, as per David Davis’ contribution last night, there is much more evidence (the nature of which is being disputed) that suggests there was improper and potentially criminal interference in both the internal and criminal investigations and the defence of the Judicial Review, spearheaded by those close to the First Minister.

Further, several people very close to the First Minister have admitted they knew about the nature of the complaints against Salmond and the identity of the complainants long before the complaints were formalised. Despite there being no procedures or policies in place that would prevent them from informing the First Minister of these concerns, nobody, we are to believe, saw fit to tell her that her immediate predecessor, mentor and friend was likely to become the subject of an investigation that would have potentially unimaginable consequences for her Government. Aye, right!

There is no question in my mind that the First Minister cannot continue in post given the above. Further, it is my belief that a proper judicial inquiry, staffed by professional inquisitors and prosecutors would easily unpick the misdirection, forgetfulness and obfuscation that has been apparent throughout the Committee’s evidence sessions and uncover deeply unpleasant, if not outright criminal, behaviour amongst a wide range of people connected directly or indirectly with the First Minister’s office.

Am I alone by not putting much faith in the Fabiani committees report actually fulfilling its brief ???????
Am I alone in being more gratefull to Jackie fuckin Bailie to get some truth ???????
Am I alone in being more gratefull to David fuckin Davis for putting info in the public domain that the committee should have ????????
This is badly fucked up folks……
Independence is being kicked into the long grass by the very people we elected to achieve it.
Bastards.

Excellent summary of where we are and how we got there. There are many ways to skin a cat and the current SNP led cabal isn’t one of them.

Spot on as usual…

I expect there will be others along shortly to say that we should just vote for again and she will change and start listening… just give her 5 more years.. she’ll change her ways.. it’ll be fine..

Do you really have any confidence in Fabiani’s Committee given its lapdog/hampered performance so far. Even a token Civil Service reshuffle seems beyond their suggestion box let alone a damning report burning down the house.

As for Hamilton, I cant see him producing anything other than Dunlop style “Best to change process” recommendations and a vague reference here and there to how things could have been handled differently but “lessons learnt and move on” style comments

So, given the blinkered public and likelihood of an SNP Govt post May Election, where does that leave Wings?

Drumming fingers awaiting The “post Covid economy recovery is complete before any push for Independence” or just saying “F**k it all…I cant do any more!”

Swinney was on Radio Shortbread this morning.

To my ears, he was lying his head off.

And, yet, people will still vote for this corrupt cabal because independence is the only thing that matters.

I used to believe that independence was a way of breaking free from the corruption and impropriety that permeated trough Westminster.

Under Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP Government, Holyrood has followed Westminster down the path of sordidness and deceitfulness.

I, for one, wont be voting SNP on May 6th. Sick of it to be honest.

In late September 2014 David Cameron meet Lord Peter Mandelson for boozy lunch. Both were on a high. And Cameron wager Mandelson ‘fifty guineas’ the following 10 things (listed below) would happen – and that support for Scotish independence would not budge above the current 2014 48%

Mandelson gleefully accepted the bet from his dear friend. And lost.

Cameron’s boast of what was to come…

2014 – Pass English Votes for English Laws (EVEL)

2016 – Hold the EU/ Brexit referendum

2017 – Confirm Brexit to EU

2018 – Brexit Negotiations fail
2019 – Brexit Negotiations fail
2020 – Brexit Negotiations fail

2020 – Pass the United Kingdom Internal Market Act

2020 – Pass Northern Ireland into full EU Customs Union.

2020 – Enable Gibraltar to join the EU’s borderless Schengen area

2021 – And watch Nicola Sturgeon choke back tears as she rejects claims she set out to destroy Scotland remaining in the EU, destroy the SNP and Alex Salmond – and also block another iScotland referendum…

After 50 years of supporting the SNP I am heartly sick of where we find ourselves. After recovering from 2014 the party was in good spirits – not now!

That packed-out Hydro hanging on her every word and cheering her to the rafters must seem so long ago now.

Soon she’ll be lucky to fill a phone box.

What The Dissident says: Spot on & well laid out.. She has to go, surely. The vacuum will have to be filled, but the rot seems very deep and makes me wonder if this can be saved at all. Will be interesting to see the fabi-whitewash and hopefully something more real from Hamilton, but will it make much difference. We need something new to focus our efforts around.

@ 10:31…

Lord Falconer – and the accusations of cronyism after his former flatmate Tony Blair summoned him from the Bar into the House of Lords and then into the Government. That guy?

Seriously? That guy… No!

They’ve out Scottish Laboured Scottish Labour with their hubris, the SNP.

As I understand it, the problem with the James Hamilton Inquiry is the remit set by Swinney is so narrow it is hardly likely to topple Sturgeon. I hope I’m wrong.

My international sources have given me to understand that the official International Cabal Licensing Board are furious at what is going on in Scotland. They point out the many surveys of opinion that indicate the general public love a good cabal as long as the proper underhand procedures are followed. The sheer incompetence of the SNP cabal is now giving cabals a bad name and the ICLB would ask the public to consider using other nomenclature to allow their good name to be distinguished from this Scottish clusterf###.
Strong words I know.
There is an interesting legal angle here as ‘forming cabals’ was not devolved under any of the versions of the Scotland Act and therefore it’s not clear whether the ICLB would ever have had jurisdiction or standing to regulate in Scotland.
Bad faith actors will always find loopholes however but the ICLB carry out important work of oversight and accountability and I think we can all agree that words matter. That being said the ICLB’s communications dept has a tin ear for alternatives…’sorority mafia’! I ask you…
End of message

@Ayemachrahanish – Aye, that’s the man – Lord Falconer QC. He thinks Scotland is now a corrupt shit-hoose. He is laughing at James Wolffe. It’s all happened in the last 6-years. It wasn’t perfect under Salmond, but nothing like this. If you go-on defending the indefensible like this, folk will begin to think you are just daft.

Is anyone in the SNP listening? Do they not understand the ramifications of all these dirty dealings? Why are they all silent on the issue or responsibility, of resignations? What a useless bunch of headless chickens.

@ Rev Stu

The scenario you outline at 10.43 is entirely feasible and goes to show why the SNP should have chucked Sturgeon over the side long ago.

If only…if only…if only Alex Salmond had hung on in there for another five years Scotland would have already voted for Independence.

Yossarian the only one defending Lord Falconer is you.

And my position is quite clear. We do not need the Lord Falconer’s of the world to grandstand on what ‘ Alex Salmond’ has already said – and has the evidence to back up.

We need Alex Salmond in the middle of what happens next – NOT – Lord Falconer!

I woke this morning excited to see how many resignations there were … zilch. Hardly any reporting, bar a small item half way down the BBC website. My Scottish father is spinning in his grave.

By international, even by Westminster standards all this is small beer involving a regional party, government, parliament and civil service.
Unfortunately for all concerned this a regionalist party and regional government with national and international aspirations.
In one respect it is behaving as badly as many national governments with seats in the UN, on the other it may give some pause to ponder whether adding to the long list of corrupt systems occupying that place is morally justifiable.
We could do much better than be just like the rest.

I have never forgotten you

Jennifer Menzies Graham

4th January 1950
!7th March 2006

They’re saying Lloyd didn’t know it was about Salmond

or that even if she did she may not have told the FM.

It is possible these are true but surely we are able to use judgement? Is Hamilton able to use judgement or will he have to use the circumstantial evidence? If the burden of proof is so high as to need an email to Nicola herself it seems deliberately doomed to fail.

It’s fair to say as Independence supporters we are all idealists.
However it’s a huge ask to not only accept that a (large) degree of corruption has crept in to the SG,then have the fkn cheek to ask us to vote for it.
Not happening.

An excellent list Stu but you didnt include two other events that Nicola didn’t listen to.

1. Referendum in 2014 the majority voted to remain in the UK and if we believe in democracy that vote should be respected for the time being. Sturgeon and most in the SNP have ignored this and continue to cause division. Another Referendum should happen but not just now. Lets fix Scotlands problems first, as the SNP have ignored most of them for 13 years, even Nicola’s own Constituency has some of the worst poverty in Europe. Education, Health, Economy & jobs are more important to the average person in Scotland. A Scottish Parliament of Coalition MSPs should take over and get Scotland back on track with Westminster help. We are in a Union for the forseeable future whether people like it ir not. We dont need more disruption and division, too many people are suffering. I am not suggesting a once in a generation referendum but lets have honest debate and a fixed procedure. I suggest every 10 years and a question could be added in the Census which would give 100% result as its compulsory.

2. Brexit. Nicola & most of the SNP ignored the results of the UK (which we voted to remain in) to leave the EU, even though many Scots voted for Brexit including some SNP members. If Independence ever happens Scotland would need to work with England, Wales & NI where most of our trade is. Brexit hasnt been the instant disaster every Remainer said it would, there are some issues but they can be resolved with negotiation. Economy & Jobs is what every person & the country relies on and so far there are thousands of new jobs being created, especially in NE England. Scotland needs to be part of this rather than hope it fails. There is no guarantee of entry into the EU and even the single market will take time to help Scotlands trade.

People keep writing that they wont live to see Independence but its not about them, you or me. Its about future generations and Scotlands success in the world, either on its own or as part of a union with the rest of GB or with the EU. We have done okay in the previous 300 years in both unions. We might not agree with all decisions and outcomes but our ancestors survived and we are here now.

Scotland has a history of fighting with ourselves and others. From the various kingdoms that used to exist before Kenneth became King of Scots, then Clan battles from the Borders to the Highlands. While we may have integrated with Celts, Saxons, Vikings, Normans and Flemish, as part of the UK this island nation hasnt been invaded. We helped fight off the Spanish, French and Germans together. A divided island creates uncertainty, division and troubles and can damage the economy as the history of Ireland shows. Do we really want that?

Even if people disagree with my opinion, we should have open debate and a clear plan for independence, not wishful thinking. Everything should be discussed in advance so the people know what to expect. My opinion is as valid as anybody’s. People should stop saying other Scots are ("Tractor" - Ed)s for having a different opinion or voting for a different political party, for supporting the Union or supporting Independence. None of us know if Scotland would be better or worse off as an Independent country. Its too important to rush into or to Wheesht for Indy. Lets debate everything honestly with facts not opinions.

Weak leadership everywhere.

Just everywhere. This is the real reason woke politics is so dangerous. The road to hell is paved with acts of kindness and weak leaders are incapable of seeing or even staring down the hidden agenda.

Sturgeon is a weak leader. A real Leader can confidently admit a mistake and turn it into a learned strength – and people can easily associate with that approach, so it’s not even hard to do.

Weak leaders listen and succumb to feedback only on the negative side of social media, like fudbook and twatter, because they are so terrified of upsetting a tiny, noisy minority at the detriment to the quiet, massive majority – the very definition of weak leadership.

Strong Leaders face down mobs – weak leaders do as they say.

The ladies not for turning

Sturgeon = Thatcher

She will ‘take no lessons’. More fool her.
Her hubris will be her downfall.
Quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat

The most oft repeated last words I see by Sturgeon supporters when faced with piles of evidence are that no matter what AS is still an immoral man.

They base this on his admissions of what happened during the trial and the words used by his QC, a Labour man with no love for AS whose defence was barbed and who was supposedly overheard using ill-judged words on a train. Despite all that AS walked from court a free man. Now, I have said here often that the hypocrisy in the current SNP is one of the most stinky things about them.

Alex Massie has again reiterated these slurs as he seems to have moved away from his begrudging temporary NS worship as even he cannot ignore what she is being revealed to be.

It is always worthwhile having a look at who is on the side of NS. I think in the coming days morality in its truest form will be examined. Not just the grubby who’s shagging who that goes on all the time in the SNP apparently.

The hope that lying to achieve your hypocritical objective is actually frowned upon and the real motives of those involved are exposed is maybe too much to ask. Everyone lies we are told and Tories lie the most so by that token it is all relative. But perhaps those who used institutional power and appeared to have broken the law are now a bit less comfortable about what they did to an innocent man.

Well, I hope someone listens to Lorraine Kay.

A letter from her has just been published – confirming Geoff Aberdein revealed the identity of one of the complainers after meeting with Miss who I can’t say her name, but everybody knows who she is.

link to twitter.com

@ somerled: “My opinion is as valid as anybody’s.”
“Lets debate everything honestly with facts not opinions.”

By the time I have said “opinion” several times I no longer know the word, never mind what I think. 🙂

However, what I think I think, and also know, is that Scotland has suffered dreadfully since 1707. Our culture and history nearly erased, our people dispersed around the globe, our economy dismantled, our infrastructure disintegrated – no ferries to the continent, little seaborne trade, Prestwick airport out of our hands, our land itself in foreign ownership.

Now is not soon enough to regain our independence.

In summary, I think I disagree with you, somerled. And with a name like that, I am surprised by your opinions!

Normally I tend to keep my language reasonably diplomatic and yes she is this and that and her little clique are so and so. I tend to concentrate on what the Scottish public need to to hear learn and build on for our future. we need someone to articulate in simple terms what the long term benefit of being independent is for each and everyone of us. lets spend a bit more time as a think tank and figure out the repairs that can be done to get us back on track.
The first thing that comes to my attention is the general caliber of Scottish politicians. their eloquence in manners, language and
political rhetoric is left to be desired. there doesn’t seem to be any minds collectively thinking of Scotland as a whole, ( I meant whole and not hole).
Parliament comes over as 4 occupants of tattie buses arguing over whos dreel is whos for picking. with constant derogatory slagging match on who fucked up previous. they seem to have way more to say on things in the past than collectively thinking how to improve our future.
I cringe when I watch Scottish executive question time and it certainly isn’t anywhere near Mastermind. they all seem to be Neanderthal in their thinking ( with no disrespect for the Neanderthal that roamed the planet for 700k years.)
My instant thought when I watch is ” they couldn’t organize an orgy in a brothel” let alone run a country of 5.5m people. In my humble opinion, WERE FUCKED!”.

There*

Stu, post Somehow by Snuff next time. Their best song. Make it fit the context. 🙂

Where the fuck has this half English half Scottish accent come from that has entered into the Scottish media and Scottish Politics?

What a horrible horrible accent.

So depressing, the number of ScotGov supporters still in complete denial over this. People I used to admire so much, like Lindsay Bruce, defending the indefensible. They don’t seem to care how morally bankrupt the government is, as long as it’s ours.

David Davis wants to shut down the Scottish Parliament, apparently. Did they even listen to what he said?

Some roaster on Twitter has put me on a list of “British Nationalists”. Just bullying of the worst kind. I probably supported independence before he was born. Sigh.

I just hope the two inquiries, when they finally report, will give us some vindication and some hope.

Why do I have no confidence in either inquiry resulting in the rogues being removed from office? maybe one or two might be thrown under the bus but at the end of the day if Sturgeon manages to hold her position we’ll be no better off than we are now.

Listening to Alyn Smith on politics today you would think the SNP had no problems whatsoever.
FMQs should be interesting tomorrow if nothing else.

@Rev Stu

Snuff were a great band, there’s hopefully something coming up where you can use their version of the Shake And Vac advert song.

It occurs to me that it would be interesting to issue a companion version (or ersatz unauthorized version) of the First Minister’s Book of Speeches, with fact-check notes in the margin –

with her falsehoods/unfulfilled promises redacted, or better still, highlighted in RED – promised referendum timings, year-upon-year, etc.

How much would remain of plain, honest speaking?

Ross Kilbride 11:49

You’ll be voting for Scottish Labour

Dude there you go again. How long have you been a Labour Party member?

By coming on here gives you an opportunity to apologise for the terrible harm done to Scotland over many years by Labour.

Folk on here remember what a Labour administration looks and smells like.

Remember English Labour in Scotland get it right.

link to gordondangerfield.com

takes things further

My god , she’s got a brass neck doing the daily covid briefing , wonder if any of the press will ask about last night ?

Watching the Covid update just now and it doesn’t look to me as if Sturgeon lost any sleep last night, she’s as confident today as ever.
That doesn’t fill me with much hope.

As Mia suggests, the airms o the British state in Scotland did its job. In reality the so-called ‘Scottish Government’ is nothing of the sort; it is still merely a modest UK Government spending department run by Whitehall’s finest, in similar manner to any other British colony, with strings ultimately pulled in the mother country metropolitan center.

And as we see in this case, the colonizer tends to enjoy immunity from prosecution, thus far anyway, while the more ‘radical’ native independence leaders (Salmond, Murray, Hirst, Singh etc) are persecuted with no mercy, and oppressive laws brought in to ‘deal with’ the wider independence movement (HCB).

In this the daeless mankit SNP leadership cabal seems compromised or, as Frantz Fanon put it: the dominant national party’s pampered bourgeoisie elite makes its own “accommodation with colonialism”. It is this ‘accommodation’ which explains why we are where we are and no further forward on independence since 2014.

This whole episode therefore reflects colonialism at work and the collaboration between the colonizer and the native bourgeoisie, the latter ‘mimicking the colonizer’ in terms of language, culture and values and protecting their privileges and status under colonialism (Albert Memmi). The same process has been played out in more or less every colony. Scotland is no different. The remedies to overcome the ‘disease of colonialism’ (Aime Cesaire) are no different either.

Would a Judge led inquiry keep Alex Salmond out of politics , till it concluded I wonder ?
Not just legally , but by convention or protocol ?

Friends desert me through choice and pressure
I know the faces, but I’m not safe

link to m.youtube.com

Sturgeon on her Covid show batting away Davis’ “allegations” just now.

“I’m not going to comment..” blah blah. Aye, when it suits her. Happy to put the boot into Alex when it suits her tho.

Hopefully not long now before she’s gone.

I see a couple of bad mental Ultras have entered the room.

@Stephen P

Yep, paranoid and defensive politics. It reached its nadir with the Bain Principle and look what happened to Slab. The same energy has infiltrated the SNP with the never give way, never debate ideology.

Recent events have given some hope though. Johann Lamont and Joan McAlpine supporting each other and the cross-party support for Joanna Cherry’s expertise and acumen.

Only in Nicola Sturgeons’ SNP is the way forward her way or the highway. The cult of personality flourishes when there is no substance to to the arguments.

@Breeks 12.40.

If there was a like button I’d have clicked it.

The rot does run deep, don’t think just SNP however they’re the power here and doesn’t look as though there’s anyone going to shift them. It’s worrying how much people with turn a blind eye to. Unquestioning loyalty is not a good look.

It will be hard for the committee to be critical of the Civil Service only! Even if they tried that line, then the failure of the FM to manage them, or by keeping them in post, given the information in the public domain is an obvious leadership failing.

It will be interesting to see how the Patrick Grady case progresses…

Some people think that admitting and owning up to a mistake is a sign of weakness. It is actually a sign of strength BUT only when you seek to rectify your original error.

Alf, I have to wonder what tier of society you hail from if you are referring to the trailer trash I see as “native bourgeoisie”.

So much for the champion of Scottish manufacturing. This whole thing was made in Scotland and here you are insisting it’s an import.

I’ve been immersed in matters political for about 30 miserable years. What we are watching here can’t be explained in political terms. I know when I’m licked. It’s one for the psychologists.

Zebedee, you were right about that point on the other thread, and I was wrong. The line about the procedure itself being a vulnerability rather than how it was implemented was discussed and referenced during Sturgeon’s session at the Inquiry. I missed it on the day.

How can Nicola and her inner circle keep ignoring the drip, drip, drip of revelations emerging daily?
It is so damaging that it will continue to impact on the Independence Campaign and her own Party as long as she continues to hang on.

An unselfish person would put her Party and Country first. I suppose that proves the point in a way regarding her principles!

To Liz 12:30 Answer – No

Talking about a Judge led ‘truth and reconciliation commission’ or truth and justice commission – being the official body tasked with discovering and revealing all these past wrongdoing by government and non-state actors.

People come forward and evidence what they know and say. The only criteria is they state the truth and ‘the whole truth’. And there are many Civil Servants staff / Police and Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service employees that could and would offer to attend.

And for those guilty or passive aggressive actors who do not volunteer to come forward then… it’s a judge led commission. The rules apply.

But the aim is not revenge – the aim is justly resolve the conflict caused and left over from these past wrongdoing. And in doing so – restore peoples faith – Scotland’s faith – in its institutions.

@De Valera says: 17 March, 2021 at 12:20 pm

Somerled
All very nice, but it wasn’t the Irish who divided Ireland.”

Ireland like Wales was never a united country – contrary to the High Kings of All Ireland bullshit once spoonfed to all Irish schoolkids in order to create a national mythology – until the Normans first, and then the English, were daft enough to think eight feudal kingdoms run by the illegitimate offspring of the Dingles from Emmerdale and five proto city slave states could be made into one unified kingdom, when they were never happiest than when stabbing each other in the back thrice before breakfast.

As daft ideas went, it proved the daftest.

Sturgeonism is beyond New Labour, it’s like Hyper New Labour. With the exception of Iraq (OK, kind of a biggie), NuLab also had this salient characteristic of not giving a shit what anyone thought but generally about rather boring bureaucratic things.

Sturgeonism on the other hand is just one big “up yours” after another to anyone who isn’t squarely in the centre of her Yellow-Green loyalist base. But the reason Blair could run NuLab as he did was because he was sitting on a near-certain majority for a decade after 1997. Sturgeon is operating within a system completely designed to deny a single party majority. But with the Yellow-Green indy coalition dangling the carrot of independence, which has replaced “Vote Labour” as the dominant expression of class politics in most of Scotland, she can come out as FM by the skin of her teeth. The only way to correct the SNP’s course is to break the Yellow-Green coalition by getting list MSPs for a pro-independence party that will give a voice to nationalists who reject Sturgeonism. And I don’t think that’s going to look like a warmed over SSP.

Fabiani committee report will be interesting – mutiny or down with the ship?

De Valera – I believe that Ireland should be united as its one island, if a clear majority in NI wish it to be so. A large number of those in Northern Ireland have Scottish & British heritage but I dont tell people in Ireland how to vote or support any party. What is your connection to Scotland? Incidentally I believe a clear majority should be over 75%.

Sarah – I would suggest you study modern Scottish history as I have at Dundee and St Andrews and you might learn that the Clearances (both Highland & Lowland) were not as disastrous as you have been led to belief. There were some terrible incidents but also many people preferred to leave for some a better future abroad. In addition Scottish people benefitted hugely from being involved in the British empire and from support in Westminster.

You fail to say that the problem of ferries, Prestwick airport and infrastructure is the responsibility of the Scottish Government and for the last 13 years the fault lies with the SNP. Maybe if Derek Mackay hadnt been chatting up schoolboys he would have done a better job of finance 🙂

Any chance of anyone in Holyrood having the stones to read out more of the Whatsapp Vietnam group messages in Parliament?

Does the speaker shut them down? Does he have a link to cut off the feed to the media? Would the Crown Office give them the full AS, CM, MF treatment?

Littleladylotte:

Postponing the coming election, suspending Holyrood, closing it down, even, are all entirely acceptable to me. I’m a Scot and I want to remain British.

How does that square with your tired claim to speak for all Scots?

Silly sausage.

Somerled,
50% +1 is a clear majority.

It is clear that 50 + 1 is greater than 50 – 1.
Ask any toddler.

Sturgeon dismissing the David Davis speech as more of Salmond’s conspiracy theory. Does she not know the difference between theory and evidence?

somerled @1:56

You don’t write very well for someone who studied at St. Andrew’s.

Somerled:

The word ” Clearances ” speaks for itself.
It was ethnic cleansing that lasted 80 years.
Just because “some” preferred to leave for some kind of future after their homes had been de-roofed, and the family dumped into the elements didn’t mean it was better or not disastrous.
The only other places you’ll see similar patterns of ruined houses are in Cyprus & Palestine where the occupants have been driven from their homes. If you read history at University you certainly haven’t understood it.

“I do hope you mean Angus MacNeill, not Angus MacLeod!!”

Oops!!! Yes, I did of course mean Angus MacNeill

Donibristle,

Nicely inflamatory and emotive + 10 points for conflating 19th C Scotland with Palestine, however I would query if the clearances count as ‘ethnic cleansing’ since the appauling treatment doled out to the tied peasant population was by land owners mainly on the authority of their [Scottish] feudal land rights supported by the then existing legal system of scots law. How many of the land owners were Scots? People suffered neither because of their ethnicity nor their nationality but because sheep were [considered] more valuable.

@somerled 3.13pm

As someone with a PhD in IR from your university I’m happy to inform you that your views on what constitutes a majority in terms of this issue is just plain wrong. (Incidentally as someone who has also spent decades in commercial contract management I don’t recognise your characterisation of 75% being there accepted figure for a majority in Company Law either!).

In the overwhelming majority of cases of referendums, a simple majority is the accepted norm. In a few there have been hurdles like 55% in the Montenegrin independence vote, which they just scraped over. The Western Australia independence vote was I think subject to a minimum turnout % of 40%, and of course the 1979 Scottish referendum also had such a hurdle, which was widely criticised as unfair at the time and since: that might explain the relative rarity of that kind of restriction.

You *might* have more of a case arguing for a supermajority criteria of 66% or even 60%, but in general there is more of a logical argument to have such hurdles where the prospective electorate is rather small, such as a parliament or congress. Enacting changes to constitutions often require a 2/3 majority for such major decisions. The rationale for asking for such a hurdle in a vote of millions or even several hundred thousands, is far less convincing. Should the brexit vote have been rejected because only 52% votes leave? Or the No vote in 2014 as it “only” got 55%?

Of course pro indy folk like me would love it if Scots were like our Norwegian cousins who voted 99% in favour of independence from Sweden in 1905, but at the end of the day, no true democrat should really be arguing that 50% + 1 isn’t enough.

Somerled: … If you read history at University you certainly haven’t understood it.

Sun is out, so I’m not going to dwell on such a depressing subject, other than to pass this on.

I don’t know who it is as author, what their credentials are, or whether what they say is true, but it’s an interesting read I just stumbled across. Makes you wonder about the origins of all these big athletic type Aussies, Kiwis and South Africans… I always presumed it was getting out of Scotland that was good for them, but maybe that’s just more ‘British’ indoctrination at work.

I also didn’t know. If I’d been asked, I’d have guessed the Scots were always short wiry wee b#!*#%ds you couldn’t leave out in the sun too long. If they were all big lads, can you imagine the pride Scotland must have felt with big yin’s marching as the Bodyguard for Joan of Arc?

link to lenathehyena.wordpress.com

Podcast to listen to from earlier.

link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

“if” being an abbreviation of “of it”…

St Andrews is a colonial outpost inhabited by rightwing weirdoes too extreme for the murkier oxbridge colleges.

tell us about the abolition of slavery (just as the economists worked out wage slavery was more profitable)

or the humanitarian mission to give the hottentot the railroad.

link to youtube.com

A lot of opposition on this site for a while now, talking in the same retoric mindset,( off with the snp head, and its body and grass roots apparently have to go, to be dismantled) the head bit I agree with, but not the body of the snp,
Not coming forthwith with solutions for the Scottish people gives the show away for the opposition, but to totally eliminate the SNP. Tories don’t do this to their party, nether do labour when there are bad apples in their barrels,
Diverting others conversation, nameing and Shameing anyone that doesn’t believe the snp should be totally eliminated, is typical wokery there is no term for this, it is cancel culture at its worst,
At this moment in time there is no other platform available to the Scottish people to gain independence this year or next, ganging up on the voices of the rest of the Scottish people Is Not a good look, we see you.
AS, whom deserves justice is also a avid independence supporter and until the setup to get rid of AS started, as I understand it he would still be holding the same snp position, it’s a party he help develope.
He like many others, I have no doubt sees the deliberate destruction of the snp and the deliberate avoidance of going for independence by NS as a big game changer, not because the snp are done for, but that those running the snp at this moment have to go is without doubt, they have no immediate affiliation with the believes of the people of Scotland or AS himself,
However it is a clever strategy by opposition to bring about the total collapse of the snp in Scotland, and to involve Westminster into changing the Scotland act, the devolved legislation. And laws in a heaven sent opportunity.
If we were to gain independence first, I am absolutely sure that the Scottish people would not put up with these shinanagins if it was our own government, we here in Scotland have always said that we want our own government, so we can hold its feet to the fire as they would be closer to home and we would ensure we were more involved.
If the genuine good snp are destroyed along with the crooked, there will be no platform for the likes of AS to come back to in the immediate future.
There is no other political party in Scotland at this moment that comes close to being ready, that certainly puts payed to independence for the Scottish people in the near future, and perhaps that’s why so many here are egging on this situation.
One wonders why the others here speak of totally destroying AS party vehicle for the future and yet
Never speak of alternatives for the independence grassroots. These conversations are slighted and managed into a different direction, we must not talk about these subjects any more on Scottish blog sites. We are to only hate and oppose, get involved with wokery and cancel culture, Not the vision of Scotland most people have or my vision of a new Scotland.
We see can observe that a lot of original independence commentators on here have stopped commenting because they are often shot down by the (new) commentators.
That you have succeeded in having the independence movement go away or that you have destroyed it is only an illusion on the face of politics, as has been for over three hundred years,
It is still in the hearts of the people.
Yes bad and corrupt government should go without doubt, NS and the hate crime bill and her cliche should go.
AS, SNP, the Independence movement does not have to fall with it, this is the talk of opposition.

James che @ 5.11
I brought this over from the other night James, to show there are others who are organising and planning to move forwards out with the political sphere and with no desire for retribution but rather to collate the Yes movement into One voice with One agenda.
Because , I think you are right in what you say in that corruption at the top must be weeded out but it is not necessary to bring down the SNP ( and I have to note here that I don’t think Wings has ever said such a thing ) at all.
The SNP members have a job to do with their party and I would support them in their efforts, but in the meantime NOW Scotland can “nurse Indy to keep it warm” while they do !!!
……………
Liz g says:
15 March, 2021 at 10:38 pm
Gregor @ 9.55
Well it’s ” sort ” of what I’m saying Gregor.
If this lot can’t or won’t move toward Indy then we’re just waiting for those we will replace them with and hopefully choose more wisely.
Politicians come and go.
But , a failed political effort is not the end of Scotland, the maximum danger of that has thankfully past and the British never recognised or capitalised on it ( the decade after the Second World War was the time to completely assimilate Scotland ) when they could have so easily .

I have high hopes for – Now Scotland – as it has the potential to harness the power of Yes Scotland into a civic force powerful enough to push the politicians ( any of them ) relentlessly toward ending the Union.
Yet Now Scotland need not concern its self with the terms and conditions of how it is done !
Or indeed who has the doing of it.
Just that it is done !

If Now Scotland can gain and therefor speak for enough members it becomes a part of Civic Scotland, every bit as much as the Churches, Trade Unions and Businesses …. and a part of Civic Scotland single mindedly devoted to ending the Union.
This I think, is a way forward and a proven one as the Scottish Constitional Convention demonstrated and latterly the AUOB marches too.

Which Parliament , Party or method is used becomes detail and flexible, only the views of the membership matter and the membership only have one proposition End this bloody Union…
Anyone here who hasn’t thought about taking out a membership should take a look…

So to answer your point Gregor , yes we absolutely can keep moving towards independence, a way has already been organised and is there for the taking should we choose to use it .

The Rev. Stuart Campbell, I trust you have made adequate arrangements for your safety.

Nothing is beyond these corrupt lying criminals.

When people say stuff like ‘the bar for a Yes vote should be 75%’ (lookin at u Somerled), it exposes a complete lack of critical thinking. It also exposes a possibly subconscious bias.

Lets suppose in 2014 we needed minimum 75% for Yes to win. Why not just turn it round to see how fair that is?

Should Scotland remain in the UK? 75% Yes required!!!

By default, due to the nonsensical 75%, or 60% or 2/3’s or whatever you impose, Scotland would ‘vote for independence’.

Somerled arges above for 75% in relation to an Irish unification question. Ok, but are you still for the 75% if the question is ‘should Northern Ireland remain in the UK?’ 75% required or it leaves.

As simply as that, people who argue for anything other than 50%+1 vote are exposed as either having ulterior motives, or just being thick.

Its 50%+1 vote or its a stitch up.

Littleladylotte:

I see you’re now identifying as a character called ‘Andy Ellis’. Firstly, it wasn’t “45%” it was 44.7%. Also, if they’d accepted the result of the 2014 secession referendum, as you choose to misrepresent it, they would have shut up about it; they haven’t.

You are an ingenu(e) aren’t you, Andy/lotte?

First Minister resignations

Wendy Alexander for accepting a £950 campaign donation outside the rules.

Henry McLeish for not declaring £36,000 office rental income while an MP which he did not benefit from personally but which he repaid.

First Minister non-resignation

Nicola Sturgeon wastes over £1m on a judicial review of a biased, unfair and unlawful complaints procedure, withholds evidence from Scotland’s highest Court, lies to the Court, withholds evidence from the Holyrood Committee, uses the Crown Office to censor and intimidate, lies to the Scottish Parliament, asserts that there is ‘no evidence’of a conspiracy while concealing the evidence and threatening criminal prosecution to anyone who reveals it.

@Ken MacIntyre says:
17 March, 2021 at 8:37 pm

“First Minister resignations

Wendy Alexander for accepting a £950 campaign donation outside the rules.”

For the umpteenth time, Wendy Alexander was NEVER Scotland’s First Minister, merely one of a long line of Scotch Labour’s branch managers.

She’d already made a complete arse of herself with her “Henry The Hungry Caterpillar” speech in Holyrood, so being “forced” to resign gave her a legit way out rather than having to resign for being a constant embarrassment to her party.

@John McNab 8.06pm

Unlike most here and elsewhere John, Im posting in my own name. I’ve been posting on here for quite some time. If the sum total of your argument is to cavil at the (virtually universal) rounding of 44.7% to 45% it really tells us all we need to know about your lack of goof faith argument….or indeed any argument.

Stun us with another.