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Wings Over Scotland

Just another day in 2020

Posted on July 31, 2020 by

The Wings Over Scotland Twitter account was – whether coincidentally or otherwise – banned very shortly after it made this famous quote from “1984” its pinned tweet:

So it was only ever a matter of time until a trans activist went there:

That’s an MSc in maths, an MA in statistics and a PhD student in statistics at Harvard University there, readers, publicly calling for the flexible redefinition of the meaning of the number 2 so that two plus two can sometimes make five. Humanity is doomed.

Meanwhile, today also brought us three of the newest exciting ways to avoid saying the word “women” when referring to women:

Enjoy your new lives as “readers with uteri”, “individuals with a cervix” and “non-binary mother-identifying folx”, ladies. (Can we still say “ladies”? Is that one still on the list of permissible terms, or are we “gender fascists”?)

And just to put a Cherry on top of it all, the blatant match-rigging corruption of the SNP has now stepped fully out into the open:

A condition which has never been previously applied to any MSP candidate of any party in Scotland has been hastily cobbled up solely and blatantly to prevent someone seen as a credible challenger to Nicola Sturgeon from entering Holyrood and allow a tame leadership acolyte to be parachuted in instead.

Joanna Cherry turned an SNP majority of just 1,097 in Edinburgh South West in 2017 into one of almost 12,000 last year, on a gigantic swing of over 10%, but the party leadership hates her so much it’s willing to force a totally unnecessary by-election and risk losing the seat just to stop her getting into Holyrood.

We cannot, off the top of our heads, recall any UK political party forcing one of its own MPs to stand down for entirely internal party reasons before. It appears to be a completely unprecedented act of political self-harm.

(On the very same day, meanwhile, Jackson Carlaw has been kicked out by the UK Conservatives as Scottish branch office leader, apparently with the intent of replacing him with Westminster MP Douglas Ross. There has been no suggestion that Mr Ross should resign his Westminster seat to enable this to happen, because the Tories aren’t complete morons.)

And disappointingly, the stitch-up/blackmail has worked.

We would at least be cheered up a bit by the lovely weather, but we have to wait in for a courier to collect something we bought that was delivered broken earlier this week, and the “timeslot” we’ve been given for this to happen is 0800-1800, ie pretty much the entirety of daylight hours.

Anyone got any good news?

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  1. 31 07 20 12:56

    Just another day in 2020 | speymouth

107 to “Just another day in 2020”

  1. Andrew Davidson says:

    I would happily support her doing a crowdfunder to raise the income she would lose as an SNP MP to be able to stand as an MSP.

    And if she won as an MSP I’d be happy for her to spend it on sweeties and booze or burn it. Whatever.

    This is incredible the effort the SNP are going to stuff one of their brightest stars. Sickening. Infuriating.

  2. Patricia Spencer says:

    The use of semantics, sophistry and doublespeak is the new politics of our time. Better get used to it folks because if we disagree its off to the ‘Hate Crime’ Big House for us!

  3. William McCarron says:

    The more this goes on, the more I think the SNP are trying to lose members and voters because they’re scared of independence. I’m of the belief that Nichola Sturgeon is proving to be lamer than a duck with no legs.

  4. Patricia Spencer says:

    Everyone I know will be contributing to a crowdfunder for Joanna if she does get nominated as the Holyrood candidate for her constituency. Though how she can stomach the toxic wokerati I cannot fathom.

  5. John Duffy says:

    She doesn’t need to resign, she only needs to resign the whip. She can then continue as an MP, whilst fighting the Edinburgh seat as an independent.

  6. Bob Mack says:

    Incredulous is too soft a word re the Joanna Cherry situation.

    I will contribute to any funder she requires and gladly

    You really have to ask yourself this question. Why are the SNP so afraid of having Joanna Cherry at Holyrood that they would totally rewrite accepted practice specifically to stop her. Who is responsible ?

    Something rotten at the top of the SNP? You bet there is and a pan and brush is required to lift it. Perhaps even tongs.I

    It stinks to high heaven.

  7. P Boyd says:

    I’m glad she’s going to have to resign. Why should she be able to pick up 2 salaries? Yes Salmond did it. Aware he donated one to charity but it’s all wrong. She stood in 2020 as an mp. She should see the term out. I can’t think of anyone I would like less than Joanna Cherry to run for snp leader.

    Correct call.

  8. Black Joan says:

    John Duffy @ 11.30am Yes, why would Joanna Cherry even want to go along with a party so determined to obstruct her with more of its suspicious, retrospective rule-changing (compare the pursuit of Alex Salmond)?

    An independent candidate for an independent Scotland sounds good.

  9. ScottieDog says:

    The emotional argument is that cherry’s staff will be made redundant. A lot more people in Scotland are going to be made redundant due to the fannying about at the top of the SNP.

  10. David Llewellyn says:

    The Stirling branch of the YSI may not have a lot of uteruses but they sure have a load of fannies.

  11. Allium says:

    I still can’t get over Angus Robertson being their great shining hope for the leadership succession. It must be a case of emotions overtaking logic. The guy is in no way suited for the role, any more than Mackay would have been if his troubles hadn’t come to light. He would be a terrible choice.

  12. susan says:

    The rule re writing, just to discourage Joanna is terrible. She’s needed to clear out the crap from Holyrood, maybe that’s why they’re frightened of her.

  13. Ian Brotherhood says:

    The fitba’s back tomorrow!

    And your lads are first up!


  14. Johnny says:

    If she resigns the whip (which they might be trying to get her to do) then she can hardly run for leader after that (without sweeping change at the top delivered in a hurry), can she?

  15. Scott says:

    John Duffy @ 11.30am, that kind of gives the Anti-Cherry’s in the SNP what they want. They fear that if she gets into Holyrood she will be a credible challenger for Party Leader once Sturgeon is forced to stand-down. If she resigns the Whip any possibility of her becoming the leader of the party & moving the SNP back towards the goal of independence vanishes.

  16. SilverDarling says:

    I suppose Joanna Cherry might make them all look stupid when she explains why women don’t have penises and she might be able to pick holes in their terrible legislation.

    She might prove honest and decent and loyal.

    Of course the main reason for their despicable behaviour is that she will try to promote the idea of Independence. Can’t be having that when there are staffers to keep in lanyards.

  17. Alison Macgregor says:

    There are a number of dictatorships across the world that could learn a thing or two from the SNP. Their ability to change rules, regulations & laws to ensure they always get what they want is, in its way, admirable. It would be really excellent if J Cherry left & stood as an independent.

  18. sog says:

    When will the SNP next release their membership numbers?

  19. Bob Mack says:

    It suddenly dawns on me that she was a loyal ally to a certain Alex Salmond.

    I think we need look no further. Insidious, mendacious revenge.

  20. susan says:

    On Mr malky’s twitter it says she will no longer contest the seat. An absolute shame. The local branch should refuse to nominate AR and choose their own candidate. The woke influence on the SNP is making me despise the party.

  21. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Angus is a pro-establishment man through-and-through and has never, in my experience, been overly fussy about analyzing or drawing distinctions between which particular establishment he subscribes to. So long as it’s in a position of power and influence, that’s always been good enough for him.

    Awfully sorry, Angus, but someone has to say it.

  22. L. Campbell says:

    I think it is the fact that these toxic people – can I still say, mad and bad, or has the equally toxic hate crime legislation been passed already? – have no sense of irony that really does your head in.

    They preen and congratulate themselves on their smug version of equality that is actually the polar opposite. It is totalitarianism laid bare: so long as you are as mad as a March hare, and as vindictive as a sharpened stiletto, you can join our group.

    We actually know we are mad and bad, but we are going to insist that you are mad and bad, and you’d better see it our way, or we’ll have you locked away for madness and badness. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mau, Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam…all started out this way and it just got worse and worse, and all in the name of making things better. I look back at people like Gordon Wilson, Billy Wolfe, Allan McCartney, Winnie Ewing, Margot McDonald, Willie MacRae, et al, and they would be utterly horrified at what has happened to the party they knew. It has undergone a Kafkaesque metamorphosis and become into the very thing that all opposed were to, and has avoided completely the very reason for its existence, and to which they all dedicated their lives – independence. You really couldn’t make this up, except that they do.

  23. Patsy says:

    Not a good look for the SNP. They’re not displaying much self awareness these days.

  24. stuart mctavish says:

    They should all resign and join the (Wings’) Alex Salmond party, that way Nicola can enhance her status as favourite to be Scotland’s first president simply by bringing the Holyrood elections forward to September..

  25. Once again I refer the people on this site to the book England’s greatest spy De Valera the way while leading Ireland he actually was working for England I see the same thing here in Scotland no other thing makes sense ??? The book can be bought on Amazon in kindle form if required

  26. dakk says:

    Suppose waiting outside the close with a few tins of lager wouldn’t look right in Bath.

  27. Breeks says:

    I just hope Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond are on the phone as we speak,…. plotting “stuff”.

    Is it credible that a whole new party, not a list party, but an all-singing, all-dancing fully formed Constitutional Independence Party boasting both Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond on it’s books, could provoke a mass exodus from an SNP that seems determined to discredit itself, and thereby force the sitting Scottish Government to call an early snap Scottish election? Is that doable? Or is Wokism more contagious than COVID-19 and the SNP is already terminal and beyond redemption?

    Alternatively, what can the body of the SNP who presumably do still want Independence, do to topple this rogue Leadership regime which has already led Scotland to unconstitutional catastrophe?

    The SNP is currently having it’s wings and legs pulled off one by one, and there is something very unnatural and unsettling about the SNP being responsible for doing this to itself.

  28. Andrew F says:

    We went for a walk in the Coombabah Wetlands today. Always a great break away from all the madness. The irony being that it surrounds the sewage works and is flood prone, so it has remained undeveloped bushland.

    Always big mobs of kangaroos, lots of birds, a few swamp wallabies, lazy snakes and echidnas now and then, but occasionally you spot a koala.

    Today right in front of us we had one scramble down a gumtree and gallop across to another variety of gumtree for a change of diet. Usually, if you do spot one, they just sit in a tree fork drunk on eucalyptus oil – cute but…more fun when they actually do something.

  29. Sharny Dubs says:

    All animals are equal,
    Except of course for pigs.

  30. Sharny Dubs says:

    Methinks NS has taken the shilling

  31. A Murison says:

    If power indeed lies in WM, then Ms Cherry could take a lead there, persuading her MP colleagues to walk out, boycott, agitate for independence there regardless of Holyrood policy. She represents her constituents first & foremost, & highlighting the unfortunately limited influence of Holyrood would be a bonus.

  32. iain mhor says:

    Re: Andrew Learmonth tweet.

    She wanted to stand, she doesn’t want to stand – What fresh bullshit is this?

    You want to stand because you have a good reason to want to; but then you no longer have a good reason. What was the reason and why is it no longer a good reason?

    You want to be an MP, you want to be an MSP, you want to be an MP again, you want to be both at the same time, you want rocket boots and a jetcar – I don’t know, what did Joanna Cherry want?

    Before I even follow it up to find out. I’ll lay everything in my pocket and raise my grandfathers watch, its only about money and a job.

  33. Ian C says:

    Why do I feel like I feel when Scotland have just been knocked out of the group stages of the World Cup?

  34. kapelmeister says:

    Ah apple pie, just like non-binary mother identifier used to make.

  35. Ruby says:

    Could this change of rules for standing MPs end up like the change of rules regarding former ministers end up costing taxpayers £500K?

  36. Denise says:

    Apparently the vote to screw over Joanna was a secret ballot by single transferable vote – so they were very organised. And clearly very determined to ‘get’ Joanna. There was no name on the motion so no one knows who put it forward – although I’d put money on it being Angus McLeod – and of course no one knows how any one voted.

  37. Republicofscotland says:

    So the only real credible chance of having a future leader of the SNP (Alex Salmond aside) that actually wants Scottish independence, has had the rules changed on her, so that she can’t get into Holyrood, and help push the SNP in the right direction, which is towards Scottish independence.

    This obviously highlights that Sturgeon and her clique see Joanna Cherry as a threat to the status quo, a status quo that doesn’t include the pursuit of Scottish independence anytime soon.

    By changing the rules to thwart Miss Cherry, of whom I confident does want Scottish independence, not only has Sturgeon seriously damaged her party’s credibility, but she’s actively working against the people of Scotland’s best interests, by placing her own personal interests ahead of the country.

  38. winifred mccartney says:

    She and Alex S should start a new party = the snp have gone to hell in a hand-cart and have landed – so please take your GRA plans and your Hate Bill with you. Damned by their own actions.

  39. Al-Stuart says:

    If nothing else, please can I ask the pro-Sturgeonites here whether they are beginning to see what many others of us witness?

    I dearly WANT to vote SNP. Indeed I did just that in the last election, albeit with a clothes-peg on my nose and having been one of those to give Mike Weir MP his jotters in 2017 along with ten friends I was able to persuade (I was very angry with Weir). The temporary Tory MP Kirsteen Hair realy was so utterly DREADFUL, that that alone was reason to return votes to the SNP’s Dave Doogan MP.

    However, the SNP are making it VERY difficult for soft SNP voters to keep putting a tick in their box.


    Or are those here on Wings like me who have read and agree with Stuart Campbell’s analysis of the current SNP leadership still a bunch of howling roasters, according to the Sturgeonites.

    Well, looks like the SNP McWoke Brigade shot themselves in the foot.


    Because Joanna Cherry WILL be free to keep her constituency staff employed and work for her constituents as an Independent MP AND also stand alongside Alex Salmond in the new INDYREF2 Guaranteed List Party as a pro-Indy candidate.

    Interesting times.

  40. CameronB Brodie says:

    The SNP leadership appears to have overcome any embarrassment about abandoning moral and legal reason. They are a lost cause, IMHO, and now appear intent on supporting authoritarian English nationalism.

  41. Bob Mack says:

    We want Salmond out. Change the rules

    We want Cherry out. Change the rules.

    Integrity eh? Nothing quite like it.

  42. Morag says:

    Seriously, this 2+2=5 thing is a really, really bad example. Could people not at least use 2+2=6 as their example of something that is manifestly, self-evidently wrong?

    2.3+2.4=4.7 Rounded to whole numbers, that indeed looks like 2+2=5. Kareem Carr is quite right. There are several ways in maths that 2+2 can apparently equal 5.

    This is not the nit-picking discussion of definitions people who use this analogy want to have. It’s not the point of the exercise at all. So why invite it by choosing such an ambiguous proposition when there are plenty unambiguous examples that would illustrate the point perfectly well.

    There are ways that 2 plus 2 can equal 5. There are no ways that 2 + 2 can equal 6. Why choose 5, when all it leads to is confusion?

  43. Asklair says:

    New SNP, conversion quicker than New Labour.

  44. Dave Beveridge says:

    Much more of this crap and there’ll be more than just my 2nd vote up for grabs.

  45. Bob Mack says:


    2 a whole number. Not 2.5 or 2.6 ,plus 2 a whole number, again with no decimal point can only equal 4. I see no decimal points in the Revs figures.

    What’s the issue?

  46. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    This is clearly outrageous conduct by the inner circle of the SNP. This is the sort of nonsense which caused Scottish Labour to implode.

    I now have to consider whether I can remain a member of the SNP there has been too much madness coming from the very distracted party.

    I was prepared to remain a member until next year to allow the bounce back to decent behaviour it seems now this is highly unlikely.

    This damages Robertson in a way which will be remembered by all decent party members.

    I will probably resign membership in the next few days.

  47. Republicofscotland says:

    Chris McEleny, a SNP councillor, who does want to see a independent Scotland is to challenge the Inverclyde SNP MSP Stuart McMillan for his seat next year.

  48. Allium says:

    @RepublicofScotland 12.46

    Well said. In acting this way towards Joanna, in putting the cabal first and integrity nowhere, they have cheated and deprived the people and Parliament of Scotland of one of our greatest political assets.

  49. Stuart MacKay says:

    I realise now that independence supporters are being forced to fight on two fronts. The Wokerati need defeating in order to save 50% of potential Yes votes then at the same time there’s also the battle to get the SNP leadership to pursue the i-word in any form.

    Divide and conquer indeed.

  50. Kev R says:

    Raging, full on angry. The time for talking is at an end.

  51. Republicofscotland says:

    Former SNP Deputy Leader at Westminster Kirsty Blackman believes that what the SNP are doing, with regards to restrictions on SNP MPs attempting to run for Holyrood is a bad idea.

  52. kapelmeister says:

    We laughed at Swinson having a giant picture of herself on the side of her election campaign bus, but we pretended not to notice the giant picture of herself that Sturgeon had them put on the side of her bus.

    But now we can see it was the same self-important arrogance from both. Me Me Me. To hell with anything that might hamper self-advancement. In Sturgeon’s case she identified indy campaigning as too risky for her career.

  53. Andrew Davidson says:

    I’ll rephrase what I said earlier. If Joanna Cherry were to find out the total wages of her and her staff and put a crowdfunder together for it to stand I’d put in to it and still imagine it would be met.

    The thing about this SNP NEC move that gets me is just how brazen it is. There’s no attempt to be subtle with it. They’re basically taunting the non-woke crowd now. “Yeah, this is our power and control, whaddaya gonna do about it?”

  54. Allium says:

    Interesting news. Scottish Government Faces Court Action for Redefining ‘Woman’ to Include Men.

  55. Ian says:

    This is what happens when there’s no plan of how to move forward –

  56. Alison Brown says:

    Disgraceful decision by the SNP!! What are they doing? Will lose a lot of members over this. Joanna and Alex co joint leaders of a List Party?!!

  57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Before I even follow it up to find out. I’ll lay everything in my pocket and raise my grandfathers watch, its only about money and a job.”

    You’re seriously an idiot.

    (1) She’s already got a job, that pays MORE than an MSP’s job, which she would give up if she became an MSP, so she’d have been taking a substantial (£10K+) pay cut to move to Holyrood.

    (2) She’s a fucking QC, you bonehead. She could earn literally 10 times as much doing that as she does as an MP.

    So, y’know, please send me all your money and grandad’s watch.

  58. Athanasius says:

    Good news? Er…it’s always darkest before the dawn? After the rain comes the rainbow? Yeah, all right then, see if you can do any better.

  59. A2 says:

    the good news is it dosn’t get dark till 9.00, you need to get out more.

  60. jfngw says:


    Is that the same maths the Herald use were they claim 38% is half.

  61. Robert Graham says:

    Two Thoughts on this current post

    Both Expletive Filled so I won’t bother until I calm down

  62. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the For Women Scotland legal action. About bloody time.

    Biology, Equality, and the Law: The Legal
    Significance of Biological Sex Differences

  63. jfngw says:

    @Alison Brown

    I don’t think a list party seriously worries them, they believe they are going to have a majority just on the constituency seats. It may need something more radical to draw there attention to the danger they are in, and we are in.

  64. Confused says:

    it’s like … finding out the Labour Party isn’t -really- “socialist”

    ah sweet memories of youth – jump into the de lorean and hit 88mph

  65. Bob Mack says:


    It’s the scientific mind considering the possibilities of evaporation and changes in critical mass etc.

    The rest of us just use figures.

  66. Scozzie says:

    Any of the party faithful want to pipe up and explain this blatant sinister move by the NEC and down-right bad internal politics of the party towards JC? Still going to advocate that NS is some kind of Dali Lama?

    Am sure like the stitch up of AS, this NEC manoeuvre had full blessing and prior knowledge from NS. Seems to me the SNP leadership are twisted, power hungry, con artists.

    As for the language now being pushed into the lexicon to describe women it’s almost sub-human. And people are simply turning a blind eye and allowing this to happen so as not to hurt the feelz of trans women. We’re WOMEN – adult human females…Not womb bearers, menstruaters, cervix holders, or any other fucking nonsense – we’re WOMEN.

    Now I have no problem with people causing offence in their use of language – but this GRA crap is a drive towards wiping out the word WOMAN and its clear and biological definition and our protections in both legal and societal terms.

    Jeez, I feel living in the middle-ages would be more liberating that the 21st century.

    I’m with Posie Parker: I HEART J.K. ROWLING

  67. Beaker says:

    2+2=5 can be proven correct using Excel. Try the following:
    Cell A1 enter 2.47
    Cell A2 enter 2.47
    Format both cells changing Number with zero decimal places.
    Cell A3 enter the formula =ROUNDUP(A1+A2,0)
    Answer is 5.

    Obviously I’ve distorted the view so it reads as 2+2=5. Mathematically it’s impossible to make 2+2=5, no matter what number base you use.

    Of course, I only have a lowly HNC in Computing.

    As to Joanna Cherry, I don’t care what people think but I genuinely hope Robertson loses.

  68. James Wyness says:

    Can I still use the mf word?

  69. SilverDarling says:

    Are the SNP coffers diminished with people leaving and donations drying up?

    Can they not afford to campaign for Holyrood and Independence?

    All the more reason for grassroots campaigning a party devoted to one issue only.

    Will Douglas Ross team up with George Galloway? What has happened to Annie Wells?

    Macbeth may well get his seat in Edinburgh Central but we all know how the story ends.

  70. Bob Mack says:


    Can I appeal my failed 6th year maths on this technicality?

  71. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m glad she’s going to have to resign. Why should she be able to pick up 2 salaries?”

    You’re a moron. She’d made absolutely plain she’d resign as an MP if she was elected as MSP.

  72. Bob Mack says:

    Nicola is doing pretty well protecting the people of Scotland.

    She is protecting us from Covid, Independence,integrity,Democracy and common sense.

  73. David Rodgers says:

    Great article Rev and it was shocking news about Ms Cherry’s situation. We really need a proper challenge to the leadership along the lines of Angus Brendan McNeil and Chris McEleny’s ideas and maybe Joanna was the best hope there. They couldn’t do an Alex Salmond type stitchup on her could they?

    The only thing that matters now to the leader of the SNP is fighting COV-19. Independence is a secondary issue! The world is crazy for sure.

  74. deerhill says:

    It would be fitting if Alex Salmond stood as an independent
    in the constituency.
    Imo he would walk it.

  75. Gerard Mcghee says:

    Throw a tiger among the pigeons!

  76. Graeme says:

    deerhill says:
    31 July, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    “It would be fitting if Alex Salmond stood as an independent
    in the constituency.
    Imo he would walk it.”


    That’s a fantastic idea

  77. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the For Women Scotland legal action. Legally endorsing “gender” as a replacement for “sex”, would undermine the social position of biological women, and impair their access to the public realm and justice. As such, the GRA amendments would undermine the human rights of biological women.

    Once this has been achieved, the concept of universal human rights is essentially dead in Scotland, though Scots are already denied access to human rights, thanks to British constitutionalism. The GRA and HCB would simply consolidate this legal oppression.

    Feminist Legal Studies (2005) 13:67–96


    U.K. regulation of sexual identity within a marriage context has traditionally been linked to biological sex. In response to the European Court of Human Rights decisions in Goodwin and I.,2 and in order to address the question of whether a transsexual person can be treated as a ‘‘real’’ member of their adoptive sex, the U.K. has recently passed the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

    While the Act appears to signal a move away from biology and towards a conception of sexual identity based on gender rather than sex, questions of sexual identity remain rooted in medico-legal assessments of the individual transsexual body/mind. In contrast, because transsexual people in some parts of Canada have been able to marry in their post-operative sex since 1990, contemporary debates on the sexual identity of transsexual people in British Columbia and Ontario do not focus on the validity of marriage, and more frequently centre upon the provision of goods and services, in human rights contexts where sex is said to matter.

    Currently in Canada this is prompting questions of what it means to be a woman in society, how the law should interpret sex and gender, and how, if at all, the parameters of sexual identity should be established in law. This article seeks to compare recent U.K. legal conceptualisations of transsexuality with Canadian law in this area. As human rights discourse begins to grow in the U.K., the question remains as to whether or not gender will become an adequate substitute for sex.

    Canadian Charter, gender, human rights, sex, transgender/transsexual

  78. iain mhor says:

    Rev Stu @1:16pm

    Then why isn’t she looking to stand as an MSP?
    What’s the logic? I am indeed dumb, because I don’t understand what her point was in wanting to stand in the first place.
    If there is not job/money involved somewhere then why withdraw. If it was to achieve something else entirely, why withdraw?

    I’m happy to consider that an MSP salary is less than an MP’s, I’m happy to consider her ‘potential’ to make money in another career, possibly may exceed that of either MP/MSP. I know this.

    However; Job/Money is cost benefit analysis – I’ve turned down a few contracts for a shedload of money, because one paying less was more attractive. I’ve turned down an attractive position because another offered more money and I wanted I wanted the dosh at the time.
    I’ve also accepted a contract which was a shit job, with shit money, but the perk at the end was worth it.

    So the heart of the question was : what does Joanna Cherry want? If money isn’t a factor, the job was the factor – but now the job is apparently unappealing – Why?
    If it wasn’t about the job or money, but a sacrifice for an ultimate perk, why withdraw?

    I want to know motive. I smell a stinking haddie somewhere.
    But that’s only what I think today – I can have my dumb mind changed by anyone answering – Something was more important than being an MSP – what was it?
    The £8:63 (and some lint) together with the (broken) watch is still here.

  79. Dramfineday says:

    Replying to Bob Mack, yes Bob you are quite right, Alex Salmond did indeed give Joanna a rousing endorsement when she was first standing. I recall this as I live in her current constituency. Interesting times as they say.

  80. Johnny says:

    Iain Mhor:

    You seem to be detecting stench from the wrong direction.

  81. maxxmacc says:

    Having known NS and her clique from student politics 30 years ago, this move to outflank Cherry doesn’t surprise me. The sooner a real pro-independence party is setup the better. Imagine if Joanna and Alex were co-leaders! Wow.

  82. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve not looked at this stuff from almost thirty years, so it very difficult for me to believe Scotland’s law makers are unaware of how to handle women’s rights.

    Full text.

    University of Pennsylvania Law Review, VOL. 144 November 1995 No. 1

    Contemporary sex discrimination jurisprudence accepts as one
    of its foundational premises the notion that sex and gender are two distinct aspects of human identity. That is, it assumes that the identities male and female are different from the characteristics masculine and feminine. Sex is regarded as a product of nature, while gender is understood as a function of culture.

    This disaggretgation of sex from gender represents a central mistake of equality jurisprudence. Antidiscrimination law is founded upon the idea that sex, conceived as biological difference, is prior to, less normative than, and more real than gender. Yet in every way that matters, sex bears an epiphenomenal relationship to gender; that is, under close
    examination, almost every claim with regard to sexual identity or sex discrimination can be shown to be grounded in normative gender rules and roles. Herein lies the mistake.

    In the name of avoiding “the grossest discrimination,” that is, “treating things that are different as though they were exactly alike,”1 sexual equality jurisprudence has uncritically accepted the validity of biological sexual differences. By accepting these biological differences,
    equality jurisprudence reifies as foundational fact that which is really an effect of normative gender ideology.

    This jurisprudential error not only produces obvious absurdities at the margin of gendered identity, but it also explains why sex discrimination laws have been relatively ineffective in dismantling profound sex segregation in the
    wage-labor market,2 in shattering “glass ceilings” that obstruct women’s entrance into the upper echelons of corporate management,3 and in increasing women’s wages, which remain a fraction of those paid men.4

    The targets of antidiscrimination law, therefore, should not be limited to the “gross, stereotyped distinctions between the sexes”5 but should also include the social processes that construct and make coherent the categories male and female. In many cases, biology operates as the excuse or cover for social practices that hierarchize individual members of the social category “man” over individual members of the social category “woman.” In the end, biology or anatomy serve as metaphors for a kind of inferiority that characterizes society’s view of women.

    The authority to define particular categories or types of people and to decide to which category a particular person belongs is a profoundly powerful social function. While the state has always performed this role, its actions have rarely been subject to equal protection scrutiny. Given the epiphenomenal relationship between identity and equality, the Fourteenth Amendment and Title VII should apply with equal force to acts of classification as well as to disparate treatment of classes.’

    Rather than accepting sexual differences as the starting point of equality discourse, sex discrimination jurisprudence should consider the role that the ideology of sexual differences plays in perpetuating and ensuring sexual hierarchy.

  83. Actually, the person asking for the definitions and axioms assumed in order to make the statement that “2+2=5” valid is making a perfectly sensible mathematical point.

    Regards, some bloke with a First with Honours in Mathematics.

  84. iain mhor says:


    Every direction sadly and I’m not smelling anyone holding nosegays anywhere.

  85. ‘Folx.’ Is the word ‘folks’ or ‘folk now regarded as…

    …ah, fuck it, why even go on?

  86. ‘CameronB Brodie says:

    31 July, 2020 at 3:20 pm
    I’ve not looked at this stuff from almost thirty years…’

    You’ve been ignored in everything you say for three decades? I ignore your tenacity and resilience. Many a less sane person would have given up a long time ago.

  87. Peter A Bell says:

    As a cunt with a cock I’m not sure where I fit in.

  88. CameronB Brodie says:

    In fact, I don’t believe our law makers are unaware of how they are destroying the potential for justice in Scotland. TRAs are not concerned about empowering the truly non-binary, they seek to empower men to colonise the legal realm of “womanhood”.

    Sex Contextualism

    The past decade has seen the rise of new scientific disciplines, such as “sex-based biology” and “gender-specific medicine,” that center on the study of sex. This project brings the critical tools of history, philosophy, and feminist studies of science to theorizing the concept of “sex” in the biomedical sciences.

    “Sex” in biology, like “planet” in astronomy or “species” in evolutionary theory, is a pragmatic human construct. Much like “race,” however, scientific uses of “sex” also interact with the concept of sex in social ontology. As such, scientific uses carry implications for everyday assumptions about sex and gender roles and for normative projects to bring about gender justice.

    Through historically and philosophically sensitive analyses of the concept of sex as it is operationalized in particular biological research programs, this presentation develops an account of sex as a contested theoretical construct pinned to research context and open to conceptual debate.

    Choices about how to operationalize the concept of sex in scientific research carry ontological, epistemological, ethical, and political implications. Offering a clear account of the concept of sex as it is diversely deployed in scientific theories and explanations in the twentieth and twenty-first century biomedical sciences, this presentation seeks to open terrain for arguing for more apt and reflective uses of it.

  89. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve been out of practice for almost thirty years, and I wasn’t anything particularly special back then.

  90. CameronB Brodie says:

    This stuff isn’t esoteric knowledge. That’s why the Scottish civil service had to be instructed not to follow best practice in policy design. The GRA amendments wouldn’t have progressed otherwise.

    What is the difference between sex and gender?

    Exploring the difference between sex and gender, looking at concepts that are important to the Sustainable Development Goals.

  91. Morag says:

    2 a whole number. Not 2.5 or 2.6 ,plus 2 a whole number, again with no decimal point can only equal 4. I see no decimal points in the Revs figures.

    What’s the issue?

    The issue is that pedantic nitpickers (like me) can have a field day with 2+2=5. Rounding to the nearest whole number is not necessarily specified in clear. Try it yourself in Excel.

    Enter 2.3
    Enter 2.4 in the cell below
    Make the cell below that the sum of these two cells.

    You’ll see

    Then change the numerical properties of the cells to zero numbers after the decimal point. Miraculously the cells will now display

    And yet the bottom cell is still defined as the sum of the two cells above it. 2 plus 2 appears to make 5.

    This is not the point of the discussion. So why invite this digression by using an ambiguous example? There’s no way at all you can get Excel to agree that 2 plus 2 equals 6. But people persistently choose 2+2=5 as their “self-evident nonsense” proposition. It’s not self-evident nonsense. It’s the start of a discussion you really don’t want to be having at that point.

  92. Morag says:

    Or as a mathematician friend of mine said quite succinctly, “Two plus two can indeed equal five, for sufficiently large calues of two.” (And a sufficiently low value of five, obviously.)

  93. Jenny says:

    Oh no! I only have one uterus- what the hell am !?

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Time for some feminist legal theory, from Edinburgh University?

    Feminist Legal Studies, 2005
    Gender is No Substitute for Sex”: A Comparative Human Rights Analysis of the Legal Regulation of Sexual Identity

  95. Polly says:

    ‘Both Expletive Filled so I won’t bother until I calm down’

    I feel the same about what they’ve done to Joanna Cherry. My language has been worse than a drunken sailor today and I don’t normally swear. After the first NEC meeting overran and failed to reach conclusion I had hoped there was enough opposition to stop this in its tracks so I’m sadly disappointed today.

    Denise says we won’t know the names of which members voted for it, but really anyone paying attention will know which ones have voted to use this method to exclude her, at least the hard core of them. I’m surprised iain mhor is so behindhand in knowing why Joanna wants to go to Holyrood after all that’s been written by Stuart and said below the line here. It’s a battle for the soul of the party and this is a check for Joanna. How will she get round it or whether she’ll take the fight to them or choose to go round them makes interesting times ahead. Nail biting, stomach churning times to anyone paying attention and willing her on though.

  96. Gregor says:

    ‘THIS ROTTEN SNP’ isn’t the SNP I voted for.

  97. Bob Costello says:

    To me it seems pretty obvious. I exect nicola Sturgeon will have to resign shortly. Therefore there has to be a leader that will do as she has done in preventing independence.

  98. twathater says:

    @ Bob Costello 6.24pm I agree with your assessment she will definitely push Robertson as the New leader as he has the same urgency for indy (none)

  99. Dogbiscuit says:

    Nicola Sturgeon a crook like all Tyrants . Time for the undemocratic strangle hold Sturgeon and Murrell have over the SNP to be broken. Sturgeon abuses power outrageously.

  100. Dogbiscuit says:

    Robertson’s a British agent.

  101. CmonIndy says:

    Any good news? Yes, Nicole Sturgeon is making gains into the harder-to-convert soft Nos and undecideds.
    That builds nicely on the Rev’s valiant efforts to help get us to 45% YES.
    Let’s hope AFI, ISP or others don’t fuck it up.

  102. Dave Hansell says:

    Does it really need a Janet and John to point out that the use of the term 2+2=5 is contextual – ie it’s a metaphor.

    As a result attempts to approach this on the basis of mathematics (pure, statistical or applied) completely and tragically totally miss the point and display an impressive degree of obtuseness bordering on genius level.

    Two suggestions present.

    1. The twelve year olds pursuing this line should get a few years practical experience of real life under their belt before further risking going to the top of the numptyland leader board by digging this hole even further.

    2.Seeking legal advice on pursuing a claim against the educational establishment they attended for a refund.

  103. Alf Baird says:

    “Anyone got any good news?”

    Possibly the definitive scientific textbook analysis on the subject.

    ‘Doun-Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence’

    Available from Amazon

  104. Normski says:

    Presumably by her idiot savant level of reasoning she also thinks Beterand Russell and Alfred Whitehead’s proof of 1 + 1 = 2 in Principia Mathematica is a pile of fetid dingoes kidneys?

    With any luck she’ll get run over on a zebra crossing.

  105. Helen Yates says:

    I have a vision of an upcoming article titled ‘The Demise of The SNP’

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