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Wings Over Scotland

An open question to Angus Robertson

Posted on July 31, 2020 by

Out of 100, exactly how humiliated do you feel today on learning that the leadership of your party has so little faith in you winning the Edinburgh Central nomination fair and square – despite all your advantages, connections and long party history – that it’s had to stack the deck with such an unprecedented, transparent, embarrassing fiddle to try to get you in? Because tbh, if it was us we’d be too ashamed to show our face.

No rush, take as long as you like. Just like you’re doing with independence.

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239 to “An open question to Angus Robertson”

  1. Brotyboy says:


  2. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    This single action will possibly split the party.

    Well done SNP defeat from the jaws of victory and all that.

  3. Robert Knight says:

    Perhaps she should join the wings party.

  4. P says:

    The dempsies are very much at home with sleekit intrigues.
    Feckin cowards

  5. Alastair says:

    I’m taking the decision today (not lightly) to no longer contribute financially to the SNP. I guess that means that after nearly 20 years I’ll not be a member anymore. How long they’re going to keep getting my vote is another difficult question for me. Not just me either, some of the people I encouraged into the SNP are wrestling with the same issues. They are not pursuing policies that are compatible with my world view as a free thinking Gay man. Sad day ?

  6. Kay McCall says:


  7. Iain More says:

    Hope he never shows his face in Moray again. I was pretty disgusted that he didn’t try to win Moray back from that out and out Quisling Douglas Red Card Ross last year.

  8. kapelmeister says:

    Just to be safe, the SNP NEC might stipulate that the party’s candidate for Edinburgh South West has to have worked in television, has to speak fluent German and has to sport a reddish/grey beard.

  9. Republicofscotland says:

    I don’t care what multiple SNP spokespersons say, this is a public internal battle between factions in the party. On one side we have Angus Robertson, an ally and obedient minion of Sturgeon.

    On the otherside we have Joanna Cherry a confident clear speaker who knows her mind and could lead Scotland to independence. Of course both sides have their supporters within the party, but only one side (Cherry’s) has the interests of the Scottish people at heart through independence.

    I doubt very much Robertson will reply to this thread, knowing fine well that he’s already been rumbled.

  10. Milady says:

    I see someone saying it could split the party, oh if only. Despicable act last night and I hope JC has the last laugh. They already lost my membership, now they just lost my 1st vote. They truly have turned into the thing they most despised…the Labour party.

  11. ScottieDog says:

    I won’t be voting for SNP at all now, if they are still interested in independence then it will be banker/land owner run plutocracy and I have no interest in being part of that.

    It’s time now for those in the party to decide if they want to stand up or meekly fall into line.

  12. Dan Watt says:

    The cancellation of Joanna Cherry is almost complete. The science denying woke disciplinary comittee et all will be very pleased with themselves no doubt.

    Considering the future of the nation rests on whether or not the SNP are complete shitebags, I’m so surprised that things have unfolded this way.

  13. Scozzie says:

    Oh he’ll show his face all right…suits him fine. Needs the competition neutered.

    Let’s hope the good people of Edinburgh Central see right through this blatant corruption by the NEC.

    Craig Murray fancy running as an independent candidate in Edinburgh Central?

  14. aulbea1 says:

    All my life I have thought & described the labour party as “Parasites on the backs of the workers” for the past wee while I see that the SNP are “Parasites on the backs of Independence supporters”. Should this statement offend – there ye go.

  15. BLMac says:

    It doesn’t matter what the internal squabbles in the SNP are.

    It doesn’t matter what was done with Salmond.

    What matters is our only hope in the short term is to continue to support the SNP with our vote because no other party gets us within a whisker of independence.

    I’ll probably vote alternative for the list. That’s the best way of lighting a fire up the SNPs bum.

    If they do not take immediate decisive action after the election, then that’s my last vote for them.

    We don’t need permission from another country.

    We just need to tear up the Treaty.

  16. The Dissident says:

    Sturgeon’s SNP. This is the biggest demonstration yet of the leadership’s sense of entitlement and untouchability. Parasites living off the subscriptions of honest, hard-working members.

    Not that it is likely, but if Sturgeon is still leader at the time of the next IndyRef, I don’t think I could bring myself to allow her anywhere the controls of an Independent country.

    I am a long time friend of my local SNP MSP but she won’t be getting my vote next year now. She can thank her corrupt leader.

  17. Robert Graham says:

    Membership in the bin wifes following shortly

    I dont expect a reply but what changes ,
    i expect my invitation to the virtual conference will be withdrawn it was on a shaky nail anyway after i replied to the question

    ” is there anything we can help you with during conference”

    I said yes Invite ALEX ,

    Never heard back from Mr Murrel i wonder why

  18. A C Bruce says:

    Another SNP stitch-up.

    A cabal running the SNP to benefit themselves. They have no interest in independence, just in their own careers.

    I’m seriously considering staying home on polling day. I don’t want to vote for such an underhand bunch of racketeers.

  19. winifred mccartney says:

    JC should resign and if necessary have a crowd funder and then beat AR handsomely to the nomination and the seat. If that is not possible join with AS form a new party and wipe the floor with snp.

  20. Colin Alexander says:

    How long will Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray and the other pro-indy people in the SNP keep flogging a deid horse, like Corbyn did with Labour, by trying to change the SNP form within.

    Backstabbed, undermined and betrayed at every turn just like Corbyn was in Labour. It’s like banging your heid against a brick wall. It’s a waste of time.

    Sometimes you have to accept it’s time to change.

    Time for indy supporters to leave the SNP and leave it to the colonial administrators.

    Time for indy supporters to join under one policy only: independence for Scotland, so no splitting of the vote on other policies.

  21. schrodingers cat says:

    but only for large values of 2 🙂

    i think cherry should stand down. her constituency has a 12k majority. i doubt her staff would be unemployed for long. a by election would kick start the indy campaign, out of the covid imposed vacation.

    it would also bring pressure to bear on any tory MP thinking of jumping from WM to holyrood

  22. Fireproofjim says:

    Please write to the party HQ. To NS. To your MSP. Deluge them with your anger at this blatant attempt at rigging the candidates for this seat.
    It is utterly disgraceful.

  23. wullie says:

    who are the NEC, names, background etc etc

  24. Black Joan says:


    When did it become an SNP “core value” to shift the goal posts in order to remove those not 100% in tune with Party Central?

    Where is the £400,000+ supposedly “ring-fenced” for independence?

    And how much was squandered in ill judged and vindictive pursuit of Alex Salmond?

    What happened to “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against her will”?

    What happened to honour, dignity, respect and generally being better than the rest?

    What ever happened to the SNP?

  25. Black Joan says:

    Fireproofjim @2.06 pm

    Many have written letters of resignation before now.


    Totally ignored.

    Complacency that outdoes even the Labour party.

  26. MightyS says:

    Seriously cannae wait to see what the SNP manifesto for HR2021 is going to say now.

    Also, if JC decides she can’t make her staff unemployed now, we’ll have to wait another 3 and a half years before she’ll be considered free to join any other iParty in Holyrood.

    What a fuck-nuggeting depressing day it’s been.

  27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “South West?”


  28. Bob Mack says:

    Most members of the SNP are great folk. No problem.

    The leadership and hierarchy of the party is the issue.

    Keep that in mind.

  29. hazelwoods says:

    I won’t be resigning from SNP yet. To do so would give MSM further SNPBaaad ammunition. But the minute there is a replacement party that can get us independence then I am gone.

  30. schrodingers cat says:


    some confusion i think

    westminster seat cherry holds Edin South West

    vacant Holyrood seat Edin central

  31. Bob Mack says:

    I remember the first article the Rev wrote criticising the party, and he was slaughtered for it. Subsequent articles brought even more ridicule and abuse,but he persevered even though contributors deserted in droves saying he was now working for the security services.

    This last year has shown very clearly be was right in what he said all along. If I ever doubted you Stu, I apologise.

    A house divided cannot stand and with this action there is a crack from roof to foundation. It won’t take much before the whole edifice crumbles.

  32. Andy Ellis says:

    @Bob Mack

    The problem is a fish rots from the head. The “ordinary” membership have shown little desire and even less ability to make the SNP reconsider its current trajectory.

    It’s vanishingly unlikely such a supine membership base will somehow wrest control of the levers of power from the unsavoury cabal who just gerrymandered the Edinburgh Central nomination.

    I’d like to think Joanna Cherry will be so outraged by this anti-democratic outrage that she decides to leave the party, but I have my doubts.

    This is the straw that broke the camels back for me though. I won’t vote for Robertson in my constituency, but I’m not sure I’ll vote SNP under any circumstances now.

    I’d rather spoil my ballot.

  33. David says:

    The National Executive Committee is composed of:

    President: Ian Hudghton
    Leader: Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)
    Depute Leader: Keith Brown MSP (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
    National Treasurer: Colin Beattie MSP (Midlothian North and Musselburgh)
    National Secretary: Dr Angus MacLeod
    Business Convener: Kirsten Oswald MP (East Renfrewshire)
    Organisation Convener: Stacy Bradley
    Member Support Convener: Doug Daniel
    Policy Development Convener: Alyn Smith MP (Stirling)
    Local Government Convener: Cllr Ellen Forson (Clackmannanshire South)
    Women’s Convener: Cllr Rhiannon Spear (Greater Pollok)
    Equalities Convener: Fiona Robertson
    Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Convener: Cllr Graham Campbell (Springburn/Robroyston)
    Disabled Members’ Convener: Morag Fulton
    Tommy Sheppard MP (Edinburgh East)
    Alison Thewliss MP (Glasgow Central)
    Sixteen regional representatives
    Representatives from the Association of Nationalist Councillors and affiliated organisations

  34. Christian Schmidt says:

    Looks like the Greens will win a constituency next year if they can find a decent candidate…

  35. JayR says:

    Angus Robertson always seemed to me like a bit of self-important, middle-class know-it-all who would be comfortable as a Tory MP

  36. Calum says:

    I called the SNP earlier to cancel my membership. Couldn’t get through and got a message telling me that “due to unusually high volumes of calls” no one was available to take my call.

    So, I emailed:

    Dear sir / madam,

    I hope someone will read this and take my feedback seriously. It is not too late for the party to change course.

    I am resigning my membership due to a number of reasons:

    – Primarily lack of push for independence. You have been given the Brexit situation which is the best chance for independence in our lifetimes and utterly squandered it.
    – Nicola Sturgeon is an effective FM but a terrible leader for the independence movement.
    – GRA bill is awful legislation and strives to deny objective reality. Men have penises, women do not. The overwhelming majority of the public understand this and do not support law that enshrines otherwise.
    – The hate speech bill is similarly an awful piece of legislation which is universally opposed.
    – The treatment of Joanna Cherry today is absolutely shameful. Moving the goalposts in this fashion is outrageous.
    – The treatment of Alex Salmond. For the man who so very nearly took us to independence to be written out of history and falsely accused of the most heinous crimes is reprehensible.

    I will continue to vote SNP where appropriate and I hope that my disillusion over independence is misplaced and we do achieve that in the near future but I cannot in good conscience be a member of this party any longer.

    Yours sincerely,


  37. Betsy says:

    Not sure if this is true but quite a number of people on Twitter are saying James Dornan’s seat has been designated an all women shortlist, so looks like he’s gone.

  38. Bob Mack says:

    Everybody on this site who contributes or reads it can act today. By all means continue to vote SNP at any election you wish but in the interim cancel your membership of the party.

    Send them an unambiguous signal that this is not ok.

    Use social media of al! types to ask others to maintain their vote but cance! their membedship of the party.

    Use the leverage we have to bring them to heel. There is no other way.

    For the sake of the Independence movvement please act now.

    We have to turn this nonsense on its head. Otherwise we are complicit in sanctioning corruption within the party.

  39. Paul Hampton says:

    If Joanna wins, it forces a by election in Westminster. Why risk a fight when there’s no need to risk the seat. 12,000 majority can be over turned.

  40. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “who are the NEC, names, background etc etc”?

    Here you go @ wullie says at 2:07pm

    National Executive Committee:

    The National Executive Committee is composed of:

    President: Ian Hudghton

    Leader: Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)

    Depute Leader: Keith Brown MSP (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)

    National Treasurer: Colin Beattie MSP (Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

    National Secretary: Dr Angus MacLeod

    Business Convener: Kirsten Oswald MP (East Renfrewshire)

    Organisation Convener: Stacy Bradley

    Member Support Convener: Doug Daniel

    Policy Development Convener: Alyn Smith MP (Stirling)

    Local Government Convener: Cllr Ellen Forson (Clackmannanshire South)

    Women’s Convener: Cllr Rhiannon Spear (Greater Pollok)

    Equalities Convener: Fiona Robertson

    Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Convener: Cllr Graham Campbell (Springburn/Robroyston)

    Disabled Members’ Convener: Morag Fulton

    Tommy Sheppard MP (Edinburgh East)

    Alison Thewliss MP (Glasgow Central)

    Sixteen regional representatives

    Representatives from the Association of Nationalist Councillors and affiliated organisations

    A few names there that should give cause for concern but explains the SNPs direction of travel of late.

    Former WoS BTL contributor as Member Support Convener I see.

    Do the SNP Members commenting here feel supported?

  41. Arbroath1320 says:

    My SNP membership is up and was due earlier this month. I have not renewed it yet because I was trying to reconcile my continued membership with the party’s incessant desire to self destruct over things like GRA and the Hate crime bill. Now we have this utterly unbelievable chaos thrown into the fire I don’t think my membership renewal will not be getting made any time soon.

    It is apparent to me that the SNP NEC is quite clearly made up of individuals who have an agenda based around GRA and they are terrified that by letting Joanna Cherry stand in Edinburgh Central she would weaken their case because of what she stands for and it is most certainly NOT support for GRA!

  42. Tony Little says:

    It’s the final straw. I formally resigned my membership today. Can’t believe that the party Ive supported for over 50 years has gone down this route. As I said in my resignation notification to the SNP just now; The Wokes may have won this time, but Scotland has lost.

    Joanna would have been an excellent candidate, just the quality we need in Holyrood for the final push. But then, if there IS no final push, her presence would’ve made the leadership more open to criticism.

    I have no words left

  43. Graeme says:

    Betsy says:
    31 July, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    Not sure if this is true but quite a number of people on Twitter are saying James Dornan’s seat has been designated an all women shortlist, so looks like he’s gone.


    Didn’t James Dornan announce a while ago he wouldn’t be standing anyway ?

  44. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Ms Cherry is not barred from going for the Edinburgh Central seat. There are just criteria that need to be met. And the criteria aren’t exactly unreasonable.

    Its long been a bug bear for many that politicians can get two wages by representing different constituencies in different Parliaments. Salmond was given a hard time for it back in the day. This ruling simply addresses it.

    The timing looks bad given the high profile “clash” between Robertson and Cherry but there is actually no evidence it was done to specifically disadvantage Cherry. It affects ALL SNP Parliamentary representatives in both Holyrood and Westminster.

    I also don’t see why she has to be in Holyrood. She seems perfectly able to pursue whatever her agenda is as an MP. Similarly, why the crocodile tears over her staff. She was going to make them redundant anyway. She would just have to do it 3 months earlier …. and then employ them again (should they want it) at Holyrood.

    Folk on this site are going to believe what they want to believe. There may even be some truth in their assumptions over this. The SNP are, after all, a large political party behaving as large political parties do.

    I like Ms Cherry. She would have been my choice for Edinburgh Central candidate had I a vote. But I’m not going to abandon the SNP and all chance of independence within 2 years over a politician who has decided she will stay in her well paid job, representing the constituents she promised to represent and paying the staff she was going to make redundant anyway.

  45. defo says:

    Safe to assume which way NEC members Mr Daniel & Ms Spear swung!

    Amazing what a bit of plastic on a ribbon is worth to some.

  46. ahundredthidiot says:


    if Cherry is up for the fight, where do I sign.

  47. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Dougie D is making a public appearance next week.

  48. Gordon Ross says:

    ISP will probably now get Joanna Cherry and James Dornan as big hitters, since the Nicola Sturgeon party doesn’t want them getting elected for the SNP. I sense a gigantic independence shaped ball, about to be dropped from a 55% height.

  49. Andy Ellis says:


    All the LOLZ.

    A chance of independence in 2 year with the current SNP leadership?

    Like I said….you can’t argue with unreasoning faith based zelaots.

  50. Bob Mack says:

    @Me Bungo Pony,
    Sadly you are part of the problem. If you can see no deliberate collusion in this to suppress the integrity of the party, I cannot help you.

    You are what you are.

  51. susan says:

    Fantastic comments by most posters btl. I am a lesbian and so the GRA Reform and Hate Crime Bills are central to my voting. Would you accept a far right party advocating independence and no third world immigration? Go on, vote for them, they’re pro Indy! No? Ok so I ‘m supposed to vote SNP for independence despite the fact the are removing my sex and sex based attraction AND my freedom of speech. Foxtrot Oscar!

  52. Patricia Spencer says:

    They deserve the cesspit that they have become.

  53. Bob Mack says:


    Unfettered,the SNP could actually be in government for the next 10 years. If they don’t change back ,then this could only be the beginning.

  54. callmedave says:

    Catching up been out since mid-morning to the beach. 🙂


    Cutting your nose off to spite your face not a good thing SNP.

    Angus Robertson should have headed back up to the North East to stand if only to restore some credibility and self respect and might even have won.

    Joanna Cherry should have been a ‘shoo-in’ for the Edinburgh seat but not the right horse it seems for the committee?

    FGS! 🙁


    ‘shoo-in’ …a horse racing tactical cheat…historical.

  55. Beaker says:

    A new political party could possibly be successful. I know it is difficult due to money more than anything. However, as an initial play, a List only party could get the foot in the door. Then assuming the money flows in (and a few defectors), then in 2026 it could have the ability to go full tilt. I’m thinking if AS went for the seat he could win it. But that’s his decision and he’s had enough pressure to deal with lately.

    I know its a long time but to be honest there is not going to be an indyref anytime soon. The longer game might be more feasible.

    @schrodingers cat says:
    31 July, 2020 at 2:05 pm
    but only for large values of 2”

    Nope, then it would be 2+2=6…
    tsk tsk 3/10 see me! (a common note from my teachers)

    Try this: 1+2×3

  56. Stuart MacKay says:

    Me Bungo Pony

    Well that’s a pro-SNP spin on things but clearly the timing is utterly inept to say the least.

  57. susan says:

    Bob Mack@3:04. Yes it’s bloody scary!

  58. Dream Brut says:

    Stu, what was the very first article you wrote about the decline of the SNP? I’d be interested in re-reading.

  59. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Re James Dornan MSP

    He had a change of heart and intended to stand in 2021.

    Had heard his seat would be targeted for a Woke Candidate (but suspect they’ll all be stuck on the list, another reason to vote for an alternative Indy Party in the Region’s).

  60. Shug says:

    Nicola might not be going fast enough for some but the game is changing in front of us
    The Tories are in melt down labour are gone and wee willie never changes
    Had she listened to many on here we could have gone for an indyref without agreement and that would have allowed the no to coalesce around a ‘no agreement ref’ and ignore it
    Even Curtice recognises the inability of unionists to stop indyref 2 now
    I am still interested in a list party provided AS goes with it. The other loony left list parties could split the vote

  61. Rab Dickson says:

    40 years of support, both financial and physical, down the pan.
    They have had their last penny from me.
    I am well known in my circles as the most vociferous promoter of the SNP in the room….that ceases too….so at least the snide comments and sarcasm will be over.
    Silver lining and all that.
    It’s political fucking suicide….and there is no good reason for all this.

  62. Scunner Campbell says:

    Just to throw in tuppence worth, I resigned my membership today as well. I am comforted to see that I’m not alone in doing so, but what a sorry state of affairs.

  63. Breastplate says:

    Bungo pony,
    The timing of this shite doesn’t “look bad”, it is bad, yet the SNP knowing this, continued to move the goalposts at this crucial time.
    To pretend that the unseemly hurry to put obstacles in JC’s path was an innocent attempt to address a longstanding procedural quirk that nobody really cared about is completely disingenuous on your part.

  64. Andy Ellis says:


    WOO!! WOO!! Unreasoning Sturgeonista ultra “Split the vote” klaxon!!

    Point, laugh, ignore dear readers!

  65. Liz says:

    Coniving bastards everyone of them

  66. Dave Beveridge says:

    The morphing into New Labour is now complete.

  67. Sharny Dubs says:

    NS is working well for her shilling

  68. schrodingers cat says:


    4 out of 3 people struggle with maths 🙂

  69. callmedave says:


    Steve Carson becomes new head of BBC Scotland

  70. Bob Mack says:


    Does that mean Westminster will agree to a section good sfandard30? No thought not. The Unionists can melt down all they want in Scotland because NIcOLA has told everybody that she only views a section 30 from Westminster as the one option.

    Clear enough.

  71. Robert Graham says:

    Bungo yer talking pish in your defence of the backstabbing shenanigans within a section of the SNP , normal process my arse , if it was normal Why the Rule change ? . just for something to occupy them while they were waiting on their Tea , away and splash pish at yer self.

    Member since before 2014 card Binned not a red cent will they get from me until they either leave or they come to their senses not particularly bothered either way, my preference would be for them to duck off or be forcibly removed, I can’t see this cult changing so they can finance it themselves

  72. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 2:58 pm
    @Me Bungo Pony,
    Sadly you are part of the problem. If you can see no deliberate collusion in this to suppress the integrity of the party, I cannot help you. You are what you are.

    Never said I didn’t see any deliberate collusion. Only that there may be some truth in the assumptions people are making on this thread. Ms Cherry appears to be the darling of this thread which is surprising given she is as much a gradualist as both the SNP govt and that other darling of these threads, Alex Salmond.

    Perhaps she too would have ended up on the wrong end of the Wingers ire for failing to live up to their high expectations. Becoming just another false prophet.

  73. SilverDarling says:

    Genuinely, if there are any decent SNP folk from that Youth SNP cabal that he and Nicola Sturgeon and Alyn Smith were part of I will be amazed. What a toxic bunch of people.

    Also if Rhiannon Spear is parachuted into a constituency anywhere near me I will actively campaign against her and let people know what she is all about.

    Time to take what is being said online amongst that bunch to the doors. If they think that their idea of politics is really what Scotland wants then they are in for a shock.

    I see Humza continues to get a pasting from grown ups who can read and understand the law. That man is so out of his depth he’ll get the bends soon.

  74. David Llewellyn says:

    The man has no SHAME.

  75. Bob Mack says:

    @Me Bungo Pony,

    Want to compare what the potential false prophet has done for Scotlands legal rights compared to your prophet of choice?

  76. Astonished says:

    I am as raging as anyone about this. But I beg you don’t leave until there is a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE.

    I live in Inverclyde if Stuart McMillan does NOT speak up about this then Chris McEleny is assured of my vote. THAT IS HOW WE WIN AGAINST THE WOKE.

    Please ask ordinary folk to stand against our own NEC.

  77. Lochside says:

    The SNP…the party that keeps giving….. giving up every chance of our Independence.

    This proves that the leadership is deaf to the discontent within and without the party. All I can see is total disorder next year and complete abject failure of our movement to achieve Independence.

    And all because of wrong headed leadership and arrogant entitlement by the Murrells and the Woke reformist tendency that has captured our party.

  78. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    The deed is done membership of the SNP cancelled, a party I have campaigned for and was a candidate for now sadly gone.

    I am sure I am not alone in leaving it is a great pity.

  79. Lochside says:

    O/T I see BBC Scotland have appointed ‘Ulsterman’Steve Carson to replace Donalda.

    The last time that I heard of a Carson from over there, he caused a Sovereignty issue that led to a civil war that ended up in partition of Ireland…..maybe History will repeat itself?

  80. schrodingers cat says:

    we cant have 2 big hitters competing for the same seat. why would cherry do this?

    it makes no sense. cherry has been told to grow up and get back in line. no one is bigger than the cause


  81. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Robertson is so-divisive, maybe he should be referred to as: “Marmite,” rather than “Marmalade.”

    I am not an SNP member, but, I have always voted for them.

    No longer.

    I will vote Yes to Independence, in the unlikely event of us ever getting a referendum, but, no way can I longer support this bunch of chancers running the present day SNP.

  82. When I lived in America, 2005-2016, I looked at Scotland from Chicago and suburbs with rose-tinted spectacles, admiring people like Nicola Sturgeon and Mhairi Black and such. Then I came back here and, in a very short time, saw that, as a white, middle-aged, working class man, these indy-lite zoomers hated me, and wanted to build a new country without me, to their sociopathic, America-imported insane standards.

    It was an eye-opener. Putting it mildly. I escaped one insane country to come back to my own to find it…slavishly emulating the deranged dump I had just left.

    But being a white working class middle-aged male is also liberating, because, when you realise you’re regarded as scum in the eyes of your government, for no good reason…you can say what you want. All these psychotic Hate Crime Bill threats only apply to the insane, scared people who would follow them.

    Speak freely, without fear.

    I have been a free speech advocate for my entire life. I would LOVE for the Scottish government to try and censor and eradicate me, as they have done with Grouse Beater, and even the dubious Marcus ‘Count Dankula’ Meechan. I would give the horrible manhater scum a trial that they would never forget.

    Nobody has fully, truly fought in this country on a free speech platform. Most people don’t care, because they’re not artists and they don’t think it will affect them. They’re wrong, of course, but the general public do much thinking outside of consuming shit American fast food and shit American popular culture these days. They’re American and don’t even know it, sadly.

    Maybe a free speech trial a la Jello Biafra/Dead Kennedys (whose No More Censorship Defense Fund I contributed money to as a teenager in 1987) or Lenny Bruce is needed to stop these horrible decorticated governmental cunts and their airty-fairy arty-farty peely-wally Twitter swarmtrooper pals in their tracks. Be a good laugh, anyway.

    As for them stuffing the party stappit fu ay their entryist, careerist arsehole pals…plus ca change, The SNP is now an active enemy of Scotland, and, without a change at the top tiers, will remain so, until Holyrood gets closed down and we all drown in minority-worshipping intersectionalist bullshit. Still, you have to admit, the local job centres, if they are not closed down, will be full of the best Americanised, intersectionalist-politics-shit-screaming clowns you can get when Holyrood gets closed down. It will be great. Fool speed ahead.

  83. kapelmeister says:

    The question is not about a new indy party splitting the vote. It’s about how well supported a new party would be and how much gravitational pull it would have in the arena of Scottish politics.

    Given the strength of support for independence and the very considerable disaffection there is about the SNP leadership, it does not seem like wild optimism to envisage a new indy vehicle piling on the votes and exerting a lot of influence.

    Also, a rapprochement of some kind between the new party and a post-Sturgeon SNP that had largely returned to sanity would surely be very possible.

  84. Bob Mack says:


    What exactly are Angus Robertson’s qualifications to be described as a “Big hitter”. I’m bemused. Speaks German?

    I certainly know what Me Cherry has done to earn that accolade.

  85. callmedave says:


    N. Ireland………00……Total…….556….BBC
    England…………09..sun.Total….*41512…WM Gov
    UK…………….today..120…..Total……46119…WM Gov

    WM Gov web site up and running again today….??

  86. Republicofscotland says:

    Didn’t they try and curtail Joanna Cherry’s rising popularity within the party with accusations of bullying at Westminster which she was cleared of. I recall Miss Cherry say that the claims of bullying might have been a smear campaign from within her own party.

    Senior SNP sources appear to have confirmed Miss Cherry’s suspicions. The link explains why they’re locking Cherry out of Holyrood.

  87. schrodingers cat says:


    he was leader of the snp in westminster, he is a big hitter simply because he is well known

    i would argue that more of the big hitters eg, dr philipa whitford etc, should be brought back from westminster to holyrood.

    i think a few by elections would be a good thing.

    what cant happen is individuals to squabble in public. cherry got slapped down for being childish. good

  88. weechid says:

    “Betsy says:
    31 July, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    Not sure if this is true but quite a number of people on Twitter are saying James Dornan’s seat has been designated an all women shortlist, so looks like he’s gone.”

    Is that an all women women short list or can anybody with a dress apply?

  89. kapelmeister says:

    schrodingers cat

    If the will to seek independence has left the SNP then what use are big hitters?

  90. Bob Mack says:


    I could tell a packet of Kellogs corn flakes without any writing on it. Doesn’t mean I’d buy them. Are you suggesting celebrity over substance?

    Name me ONE occasion when he scored a political win for the SNP or indeed the Indy movement.

    Just One.

  91. callmedave says:

    Jo Johnston gets a peerage BBC announce (Boris’ bro)

  92. schrodingers cat says:


    i’m snp, i still believe in independence. who are you referring to?

  93. susan says:

    Angus Robertson is a fkn Cnut so far up his own arse he’s airborne.

  94. Betsy says:


    Is that an all women women short list or can anybody with a dress apply?

    I believe party policy is that anyone who says they’re a woman is one. Perhaps JD needs to get in touch with his feminine side.

  95. Bob Mack says:

    It’s very clear Ms Cherry wants to start clearing out the stables at Holyrood. Angus Robertson wants to add to the mess on the floor. Ms Sturgeons pal.

  96. schrodingers cat says:

    no, im merely suggesting that well known candidates usually fair better in elections than complete unknowns.

    hardly a philisophical block buster, i know, but hey, if the hat fits etc

  97. schrodingers cat says:

    todays philisophical block buster comes from………

    susan says:31 July, 2020 at 4:27 pm
    Angus Robertson is a fkn Cnut so far up his own arse he’s airborne.

  98. Bob Mack says:


    You never answered the second part. Can you name me ONE instance Robertson scored a notable victory at Westminster?

  99. Jan Cowan says:

    To think that Alex and friends spent all those years building a strong, loyal political party and now those self-serving followers of Sturgeon destroy our work in no time.

    We can’t let her continue. She has to go.

  100. schrodingers cat says:


    i dont need to. my comment about big hitters is based on being well known.

    the same could be said about philipa whitford, what has she achieved in westminster? what can a minority in wm ever achieve? apart from speaking well etc.

    but she is well known, i could say the same about her, the same argument etc

  101. Bob Mack says:

    Come on SC. The guy was in Westminster the best part of 17 years,being deputy leAder then ldader. What did he achieve to be a big hitter.

  102. Ian says:

    Angus Robertson a big hitter? Very good and relevant question. And why isn’t he trying to get the Moray seat back instead?

  103. Bob Mack says:


    No, Were talking about Joanna Cherry v Robertson. Not Whitford ,Thewliss, or anybody else. The two people involved.

  104. Tannadice Boy says:

    The big hitters of the SNP are trapped in Westminster. Angus Robertson lost his seat I wouldn’t class him as a big hitter anyway. The way Nicola likes it. No dissent. Everybody under control. Little talent coming through at Holyrood. Unfortunately for her the dissent amongst the informed is growing. Things will change on a sixpence. I am banking on a decent Holyrood Inquiry. One Hope’s..

  105. Polly says:

    ‘I remember the first article the Rev wrote criticising the party, and he was slaughtered for it.’

    That’s why Wings is so valuable and streets ahead of anyone else. Stuart is not only clear sighted and honest but stubborn in sticking with what he believes to be true, despite any criticism. That combination of qualities is invaluable. Sturgeon fails because she doesn’t like honest criticism from within her own ranks and it seems many independence supporters don’t either.


    ‘we cant have 2 big hitters competing for the same seat. why would cherry do this?
    it makes no sense. cherry has been told to grow up and get back in line. no one is bigger than the cause

    Bugger off with that crap you cheap hustler. Dirty Old Marmalade is the one squeezing his way in with the help of Sturgeon and her woke brigade and using every dirty trick in the book. Posting photos which weren’t what he implied to give impression he had lots of ordinary party support for his bid for Edinburgh seat (people in the photo called him out for lying), talking to papers about how he was going to beat unionists as an MP in that seat (when section by local branch hasn’t happened), now this £10,000 to stand and when realised a crowdfunded would be widely supported, even by folk from England, now make it so can’t stand unless she resignsas MP first.

    You’ve gone too far in your support of SNP and lost your mind and integrity completely. What kind of new country do you want to create if it’s built like this, with this type of chicanery?

  106. Allium says:

    Gordon Brown’s ruthless squashing of any Labour competition for the top job over at least a decade still shows today in the paucity of choice available to Labour for preferment. He annihilated talent to feed his own ambition and assuage his inferiority complex at the expense of his own party. His weakness weakened his own party disastrously.

    I have never thought Nicola had anything in common with Brown until now.

  107. Bob W says:


    “cherry got slapped down for being childish. good”

    You’re postings become more tabloid by the day!

  108. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Remember Progress Scotland?

    Progress Scotland is a pro-Scottish independence think tank, launched in February 2019. Founded by the former deputy leader of the Scottish National Party, Angus Robertson and former Director of Ipsos Mori, Mark Diffley.

    Any big hits from that one?

    Or was it another con like the SNPs Rebuttal Unit Keith Brown was going to head up to counter the BBC/MSM?

    Suspect with all the membership money stopping over this ditch up of JC standing and the whole Woke/GRA/HCB the SNP will be short of campaigning cash.

    When do they publish Membership Numbers and Accounts?

    Overdue already I think and a public airing would justify calls for Mr Murrell to consider his £100k p/a position.

    Which is why they won’t be public any time soon.

  109. crazycat says:

    @ SilverDarling at 3.38

    I believe Ms Spear has her eye on Argyll and Bute. Now that the precedent has been set, if Mike Russell changed his mind about standing down, he wouldn’t be allowed to, would he, since there couldn’t possibly be one rule for some and another for others…

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    There is obviously an anti-democratic clique at the top of the party, who appear to have absolutely no understand of, or respect for, the rule-of-law. Scotland will never gain constitutional justice with this shower running things.

  111. schrodingers cat says:

    Polly says:
    moi, a cheap hustler?

    that’s a cracker polly 🙂

  112. CameronB Brodie says:

    The cat thinks morals are a fantasy and he holds the rule-of-law in contempt. This is exactly how the party leadership appears to view the world.

  113. Beaker says:

    @schrodingers cat says:
    31 July, 2020 at 3:57 pm
    “we cant have 2 big hitters competing for the same seat. why would cherry do this?
    it makes no sense. cherry has been told to grow up and get back in line. no one is bigger than the cause”

    While I was initially critical of Joanna Cherry, she has turned out to be a rather effective politician. She’s matured and is rarely stuck for an answer. She is more intelligent than Sturgeon, and she doesn’t try to emulate Salmond’s style like that idiot Blackford does.

    Once Salmond departed Westminster, Robertson was a fucking joke at PMQs. He’s very much like Keith Brown in having zero charisma. He lost Moray and now he wants to be parachuted into the middle of Edinburgh. Fuck that. Politicians should be local to the constituency they represent. Cherry is local to Edinburgh. The question now is if the local SNP group endorse his candidacy. If they do, then the SNP will deserve the “cult” tag many opponents are now slapping on it.

    I hope the Tories hang onto the seat. I really do.

  114. Liz says:

    Today is the day the SNP died.
    I’m heartbroken.

    At least we know where we stand. I will spoil my ballot paper and ISP or a new other on the list

  115. ElGordo says:

    It’s all gone a bit game of thrones,
    Angus now morphing into Theon Greyjoy,
    Hopefully he’ll find some baws,
    Or borrow some

  116. ‘crazycat says:

    31 July, 2020 at 5:10 pm
    @ SilverDarling at 3.38

    I believe Ms Spear has her eye on Argyll and Bute’

    Rhiannon Spear is a total moron, emblematic of the sniffy faux-feminist middle-class zoomers and bangers who are flushing the SNP down the toilet. Tragic and disgusting.

  117. CJ Robertson says:

    I always rated Angus.
    I rate Joanna Cherry more.
    (Guess it’s a personal take)
    Both of them are head and shoulders above some of the sitting Holyrood MSPs.
    I just wish the SNP would accommodate the two of them.

  118. boris says:

    The content reveals the stupeyfying insensibility of the BBC Corporation which seeks to greatly expand its investment in services that have sod all to do with the provision of entertainment and news to the British taxpayer who is required by law to purchase an annual licence. The BBC should reverse its expansionist regime and divert money saved to the provision of free viewing of all BBC programming to pensioners aged over 75. Full article here: Well worth a read

  119. iain mhor says:

    @schrodingers cat @3:57pm

    I don’t have an issue with ‘big hitters’ going head to head
    On the other hand “Why would Cherry do this?” at all is curious. The attempt folded like a cheap tent whatever the reason.
    No-one’s my hero in politics, I give them all a hard stare.

    Angus up there, on another day he wore the cape. I’m pretty sure he’s standing, because he wants to be back in government (not an MP for Moray for some reason, though by all accounts that’s due to be contested shortly) An MSP then and perhaps deputy FM, potentially FM – Why? No idea. Doesn’t like his current job? To push for and achieve independence?

    So, what would Joanna Cherry’s motive be, the same?
    I’ve got nothing here.
    The better to achieve independence as an MSP? Being an MP isn’t as much use for that I take it. Thinks Angus would be bad at it perhaps (whatever ‘it’ is) just shits n giggles?

    Ach, I’m fannying around, Joanna Cherry wasn’t much bothered about the position one way, or another either. No cape, no hero – not today, maybe another day.

    Wait I’ve got it – it was a clever feint to draw the vipers into the light, shatter Angus’ credibility, quit, stand as an independent win; ride to Bute House with the banner of light, purge their nest, rally the troops and win the day…
    If that’s the case, I’ll be down eight quid and a watch – totally worth it.

  120. Polly says:


    You’re a fecking idiot if you support any party to the hilt when they’re doing things like this. Ordinary members should decide and ordinary voters won’t forget. And they won’t forget folk who attack Cherry for wanting to put her name forward for Holyrood, when we know the battle for independence is in Holyrood now and the tories are coming for it.

    I was hoping someone had recorded the Mike Russell speech yesterday for it was fighting in spirit. We need more of that and Cherry would be tremendously effective there. But for her to be stopped by a lot of wokes who call her a Terf, who instigated claims she was a bully, who have harassed her (and Joan McAlpine) for standing by women’s rights as they already exist, who harassed her for ages, while Sturgon stood by silently and watched, while Sturgeon herself wants no rival in Holyrood and wants her chosen successor to have an easy run in Edinburgh – all without members getting any say – and you criticise Cherry? You asked not long ago why she and Robertson had to go for same seat. You said you wanted them both in Holyrood. You understand this. Stop attacking Cherry in a misguided attempt to support snp.

  121. stuart mctavish says:

    Doug Ross’s coronation is either acceptance of a forthcoming wipeout, the logical preparation for significant degrading of Holyrood’s status, or a bit both.

    Accordingly (without wishing to put too many bullet holed boots in), IF the election is not brought forward for whatever reason (ie covid), assuming it is still required, and assuming SNP MPs prove unwilling to leave their Westminster seats – or abandon the party – until such time as there is a cure for the common cold, the seat might still be an excellent one for a potentially incarcerated Craig Murray to contest for the Wings’ Salmond party with a view to establishing who might best deserve the vile poisonous viscous snarling creepy cowards accolade..

  122. AnneMarie D says:

    I am also heartbroken. I have written to HQ, my MP and MSP in the past about the trolling of Joanna from SNP members. Completely ignored by all of them. I copied Joanna in and she sent a personal thanks.

    I made it clear that she was my barometer in that I would judge the merits of being a member based on how she is treated. I feel sick at the thought of cancelling the direct debit but after reading comments on here I now believe today is the day to do it. The numbers resigning today will be significant and that is important.

    It won’t make them change but we cannot be held hostage. I will continue with my local YES group but I cannot envisage going round canvassing to tell people to vote for this current SNP party. I will vote on the constituency but never the list.

    BTW why was a woman only short list not considered for Edinburgh Central?

  123. Chris Downie says:

    Deary me, this behaviour doesn’t cut the Marmalade…

    It’s been noted on here by several members in the past that the Irish independence movement was infiltrated by the British imperial (sorry, “security”) services, right to the upper echelons, so to suggest the Scottish independence movement hasn’t been similarly compromised is dangerously naive. I wonder what odds I would get on Angus Robertson and Peter Murrell being among the MI5 plants?

  124. MorvenM says:

    One of the rare occasions when I find myself agreeing with Alex Massie, although I don’t find it quite so amusing. #Cherrymandering

  125. Bob Costello says:

    This proves beyond doubt that a full blown alternative independence party is needed and not just for the list vote either

  126. ‘AnneMarie D says:

    BTW why was a woman only short list not considered for Edinburgh Central?’

    Cos it’s disgusting sexist shite?

  127. ahundredthidiot says:

    we really need ‘circumstances to change’ for JC to reconsider.

    Even die hard SNP supporters must be wondering what the f*ck is going on…..and if they aren’t, then there really is no helping them.

    Whitehall must be pissing themselves laughing – no doubt their house jocks will be taking all the credit – john deers the lot of them.

  128. SilverDarling says:

    @Crazycat and @WhoRattledYourcage

    Thanks. I am in A & B.

    I had heard maybe Michelle Thomson might also stand. If there is a bonafide competition all well and good but if Spear has it sewn up then I could not vote SNP.

    Spear will not be welcome from what I know of my SNP pals.

    Surprising silence from the sneery 100% Twitter crowd on the whole. Good to see James Dornan challenging the sleight of hand that precludes him from standing.

    I see Jack Deeth has come out of his bunker again. What is the deal with him? No history on the net except in forums on IT stuff. Arrives in Dundee and becomes part of the 100% twitter crowd and then seamlessly inveigles himself into the party. Do these naive idiots never wonder why so many of these youngish males appear oven ready to fit right into a party and its machinery so easily?

  129. MorvenM says:

    AnneMarie D says:

    BTW why was a woman only short list not considered for Edinburgh Central?

    Yes, that’s a real heid scratcher, isn’t it?

    On the bright side, as the SNP government has changed the definition of woman, maybe poor old James Dornan could identify as non-binary or gender fluid and see if they can still boot him off the candidates’ list. You don’t even have to wear a skirt and lippy nowadays.

  130. ahundredthidiot says:

    Bob Costello

    sorry, Bob, that is not clear thinking.

    The SNP can be fixed, time is against us, but it can be fixed.

    If the SNP does turn into New Labour – and let’s face it, that was always a risk given Scotlands political history and the fall of Scottish Labour – then we have bigger problems which wont be solved by any new Indy Party for the first vote.

    We will be a lost cause for several generations.

    What we need now is Leadership – Leaders who are prepared to risk everything.

  131. Famous15 says:

    I left the SNP months ago because I did not want any of my hard earned money to pay for immature and woke staffers but the dream of independence was still alive.

    After the outrageous NEC decisions affecting Dornan and Cherry it appears they have lost their marbles and my dream with it.

    Is there another way given the polls? Defeat facing certain victory!


  132. panda paws says:

    James Dornan has confirmed on twitter that his seat has been declared women only. To do this to a sitting MSP is appalling.

    I doubt his challenge will succeed. Then he either needs to stand in constituency and/or list as an independent OR my preferred option self identify as a woman and hoist this cabal on their own petard.

    At this rate Edinburgh Central will be Tory hold and Glasgow Cathcart Labour gain next year.

  133. Rm says:

    If Angus Robertson had any fight in him he’d take his seat back up north, he hasn’t got the fight or legal knowledge to match Joanna Cherry, watch her at Westminster sometimes stays all day and into the night she’s a pit bull a person we need to push to end the union, Angus is like lots of the current msps been there for to long, we need up and coming people like Joanna to try a different way, still a job for Angus Robertson with all his experience but behind the scenes, the passion has gone for some of the long timers.

  134. ALANM says:

    Sometimes admitting defeat is the best option. We need to demolish what’s taken half a century of hard work to construct and start again from the ground up.

  135. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wouldn’t worry about what Alex Massie thinks, as he’s essentially a reactionary yoon who’s somewhat detached from reality. He’s not too bright either. 😉

  136. kapelmeister says:

    It’s obvious Johnson and Cummings don’t want the leader of the Scottish Tories to be a Holyrood politician. So there isn’t even the possibility of rebellion when No.10 moves against devolution.

    Douglas Ross would unprotestingly get down on the floor and curl up if Johnson said he wanted to use him as a footstool. Ross is the typical middle class eejit who trains as a match official just to compensate for always having being chosen last in playground fitba games.

    Douglas Ross makes Carlaw look dynamic.

  137. twathater says:

    To all the people resigning their membership and others saying they will NOT vote SNP because of these shenanigans and more , is it NOW TIME to discuss my proposal of a DECLARATION from VOTERS that STATES CATEGORICALLY that ME the individual WILL NOT vote SNP at the next HR election unless and until the reviled GRA and HATE CRIME BILLS are ditched and a definite referendum before JAN 1ST 2021 for indy2 is held, aligned with a challenge to the treaty of union in the COS,ICJ,and UN . We have to make these arseholes AWARE that we will not put up with this corruption of our independence dream

    Also if they DO NOT CONCEDE and we don’t vote for them at least we will have tried and they WILL SUFFER the consequences , albeit so will we BUT WE MUST TRY

  138. Tannadice Boy says:

    AnneMarie/ MorvenM

    Good point well said.. too much concentration on this Edinburgh seat. Power play in focus. Of course it’s all about stopping certain candidates. The voters might have other ideas. A good candidate will always win the electorate over. Chess games…

  139. Robert Graham says:

    Ok all you smart arses

    What’s the end game ?

    We know it’s not Indy ref 2 so that can be discounted why would anyone manufacture a split ?

    But what is exactly the point

    Usually you look for the beneficiaries and who is likely to gain from pretty bizarre actions.

    Massie pretty funny with the Cherrymandering bit at least a bit of lighthearted banter going on to lighten proceedings on a pretty dull day , I really hope Nicola has a explanation for this move to the Dark side because it doesn’t quite add up and I can’t see the motives.

  140. CameronB Brodie says:

    It was probably childish of me to slag Massie off, but I tend not to have much for time for illiberal twats.

  141. Clapper57 says:

    Last night I posted this :

    “So Michelle Ballantyne just interviewed and she said carlaw Pushed and no sooner had he resigned then Douglas Ross’s name thrown in the mix…she said push came from WM…said she did not want a stitch up re leader…obvs she is peeved as she lost out to Carlaw in leadership election….though I am sure she will eventually get back onside if a shadow cabinet position is offered”

    Now Michelle Ballantyne tweets this today :

    “Earlier this year I stood for the @ScotTories leadership to empower members and take the fight to the SNP.

    We still need a leader who will do just that. That’s why I’m backing @Douglas4Moray.

    Douglas will be a great ambassador for the Flag of United Kingdom and I look forward to working with him”.

    Wow…not often I am left speechless but come one…I know she has form in flipping her flop as on debate night she was dissing Boris J ( before Tory leadership election was even a consideration as Theresa May was still PM) she said he did not care about Scotland…fast forward and in leadership campaign she is on Team..Boris.

    Ambition is a terrible thing you know for some people as they will do anything to get on…even if only for a branch office shadow cabinet role….or even abandon former supposed ‘strong’ beliefs to get a peerage…..mind you it is good to have proof to back up the ‘Never trust a Tory’ slogan…..

    BTW I cancelled my membership of the SNP today…no point in me highlighting hypocrisy and flaws of Unionist parties but continuing to a member of a party I no longer believe in…sorry I have had enough…I have no issue with others who wish to retain their membership as that is none of my business….I just feel so much better no longer supporting a party financially that I cannot find any common cause with….will give my yearly fees to an animal charity…at least then I will know the money I give them will be put to good use.

  142. twathater says:

    @SC remember the polls putting the SNP on 54% and NS on 80% do you think this clusterfuck will have any impact on popularity or will members just suck it up , genuine question

  143. Dan Watt says:

    Stop pretending like a referendum this year could be won. It’s farcicle at best.

  144. Wee Chid says:

    So will Douglas Ross have to resign as an MP before he can be considered as a list candidate in Scotland – or is it only the SNP who are stupid enough to make this a rule?

  145. AnneMarie D says:

    Don’t get me wrong. I am completely against All Women Shortlists. I remember being at the SNP conference where it was approved and I voted against it. My recollection is that the debate did not include the scenario of a male incumbent being removed. I believe the assumption was that this would come into play for vacant seats. Edinburgh Central is a vacant seat and Glasgow Cathcart is not. This just makes the stitch up stink all the more.

  146. SilverDarling says:


    So much happening it is hard to keep up.

    I’m sorry you feel you have had to leave – when decent people leave the SNP are really in trouble. I toyed with joining after the Referendum but the party seems unrecognisable from that time – from the outside anyway. Maybe to those who climb the greasy pole it was ever thus.

    I just saw on the news that Douglas Ross will combine MP/MSP and keep on refereeing as well. A veritable one man band. Every week he’ll ne snitching to Boris with his tales of woe.

    Michelle Ballantyne – the Tory Nurse Ratched.

  147. schrodingers cat says:

    the snp backed angus in the central edin constituency, no question.

    why cherry wanted to enter the race against angus is anyones guess, especially since edin southern and western are up for grabs too?

    hint, joanna is mp for Edinburgh South West constituency

    maybe they both wanted to face off ruth davidson but will be denied that since 22nd nov 2019, ruth announced she wouldnt be standing in 2021.

    if this is just joanna stirring the sh1t, she deserves to get told to sling her hook.

    since it is only 7 months since she stood and got elected to wm, if she now wants to go to holyrood, then it should follow on that she should stand down and allow a bye election

  148. schrodingers cat says:

    twathater says:
    genuine question

    genuine answer, no

  149. Ottomanboi says:

    The Scottish climate is not suitable for growing bananas but it has at least the appropriate politics.
    Revolution, coup d’état or something would be the usual way out of such a situation when the politicians are found conspicuously wanting.

  150. Tannadice Boy says:

    Clapper 57 says
    Beautiful post exactly where I was some time ago. Congrats on giving your fees to an animal charity. We need your like in Scotland.

  151. Michael Laing says:

    I find it astounding that there are people posting on this thread who are willing to ignore the plain fact that Sturgeon is acting like Stalin or Hitler in her paranoia and mania for power. On top of the fatuous idea that men wearing lipstick and tights are women and must be accepted as such, referring to women as ‘womb-owners’ and ‘menstruators’, the planned criminalisation of free and factual speech, and especially the outrageous conspiracy to destroy Alex Salmond and erase our national hero from history, enough is enough. I shall cancel my SNP membership forthwith. I believe Sturgeon, when she is finally toppled, is going to be remembered as a despot and an abject ("Tractor" - Ed) to Scotland.

    It’s starting to look as if we’re going to need a new independence party to stand in constituencies as well as on the list. It may well be that there will be nothing but smoking ruins left of the SNP in any case when Sturgeon’s part in the attempt to destroy Alex Salmond becomes common knowledge. What I hope won’t change is the public’s desire for independence as soon as possible. We must find some way way to unite all the disparate parties and groups pushing for independence under one banner. Can a conference be organised?

  152. Bob Mack says:

    Who asked Joanna Cherry to put her hat in the ring for Edinburgh Central? Amazingly enough many of the branch members covering the whole area.

    Who asked Angus Robertson? Guess?

  153. Wee Chid says:

    Me Bungo Pony says:
    31 July, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    “Its long been a bug bear for many that politicians can get two wages by representing different constituencies in different Parliaments. Salmond was given a hard time for it back in the day. This ruling simply addresses it.”

    But will the Tories do the same over Douglas Ross? I very much doubt it.

  154. george wood says:

    Angus Robertson is a big hitter? Don’t make me laugh.

    I can guarantee you that most people in this seat will not know who this guy is. (hint- I live in the constituency)

    They will more likely know who Joanne Cherry is as she is already the MP although with the crazy boundaries we have in Edinburgh, it is sometimes difficult to work out who represents what area.

    Robertson is the problem as he has parachuted himself into this constituency when he knew this one should go to Cherry because of the work she has done here.

  155. Michael Laing says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Hasn’t it always been the case that sitting MPs can also stand for election as MSPs and sit in both parliaments? Is it not blindingly obvious that the reason this has suddenly and highly undemocratically been changed is to eliminate opposition to Nicola Sturgeon and silence a voice pushing for independence?. It’s absolutely blatant gerrymandering.

  156. red sunset says:

    To the people talking of Alex Salmond earning two salaries, as MP and MSP at the same time. Alex gave one of those salaries to charity. He did not benefit financially from that.

  157. A Person says:

    -Michael Laing-

    In November 1972, Richard Nixon won the largest landslide in American political history, 49 of 50 states, 61% of the vote. In August 1974- in other words, as distant from his election victory as November 2018 is to now- he was forced to resign and run away, with 80% of the public against him, having been exposed as a monstrous crook.

    Look at how much hype there was for Theresa May for the nine months between her appointment as PM and her election car-crash. Think of how after that election people were convinced Corbyn would soon be in power.

    Pride comes before a fall, and what goes up, must come down…

    Let’s just hope it’s someone like Joanna that fills this void!

  158. red sunset says:

    With reference to all the people reporting resigning from the SNP.

    While that may or may not be noticed, or cared, what will hurt the party is the number of activists who will hold back from campaigning next year.

    My guess is that the majority of the genuine Indy posters on here are active in one way or more at a local level. That is where the discontent will boil over.

  159. A Person says:

    And Bungo and Cat, don’t get cute.

    I happen to agree that you shouldn’t be an MP and MSP at the same time but this ruling doesn’t say that, it says an MP can’t stand to be an MSP.

    I am sure you are both well aware why this particular rule was imposed at this particular time, and who it was supposed to stop.

  160. Angela says:

    If Angus stands we have to accept that he is as morally bankrupt as the NEC. I cancelled my membership today. I will not and cannot publicly and financially support the SNP any longer. But worse than that, I cannot in all good conscience give them my vote either.

  161. Tannadice Boy says:

    Red Sunset says
    Genuine Indy supporters? That tells me everything I need to know. I am a Russian address 10 Putin Way Moscow. But in one sense your right. Nobody cared about my resignation from the SNP. And no I am not active.. totally scunnered by the party. At some point you will realise why?. And don’t bother replying as the SNP didn’t reply to me. Have a good night.

  162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Stu, what was the very first article you wrote about the decline of the SNP? I’d be interested in re-reading.”

    There have been a few over the years that were critical in various ways, but as far as I can tell this was the turning point.

  163. Bob Mack says:

    @Tannadice Boy,

    I think he is actually agreeing with you not criticising.

  164. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack says:3:44 pm
    “Want to compare what the potential false prophet has done for Scotlands legal rights compared to your prophet of choice”?

    Ms Cherry fought tooth and nail to try and stop Brexit. Everything she did was to, as the Rev would put it, deny England its choice to leave the EU. None of it was about Scottish independence.

    Much of the discontent with the SNP on this site has centred on them fighting stuff like Brexit instead of prosecuting the case for independence. Ms Cherry was slap bang in the middle of this “problem“. So why is she getting singled out for sainted martyrdom here?

    It just seems like the malcontents lashing out with anything that they think will hurt the SNP (and by extension, independence) and confirm their pet conspiracy theories.

    For all that I get called a Sturgeonista, I’m not. I’m an independentista. I call it madness to try and depose Sturgeon and damage the SNP, simply because it is madness to do such things in the run up to an election with both Sturgeon and the SNP riding high in the polls. If Cherry was in the heady position Sturgeon is in just now I’d be saying the same things about her …. or Salmond …. or Robertson …. or Rev Stu …. or Andy Ellis!!!

    All the folk on these threads saying they won’t vote SNP in the next election are effectively giving up on independence just as it looms ever closer. On your conscience be it. I read recently that Scots will march arm in arm in common cause …. until victory draws near …. then they will scatter in all directions. This thread certainly proves the veracity of that little homily.

  165. Tommy Ball says:

    The continued denial by some that Nicola Sturgeon is now the biggest obstacle to independence – and is now, in fact, an active obstruction to the pursuance and achievement of independence – is surely no longer tenable.

    We all know exactly what the Robertson family did to be guaranteed a seat in Holyrood. This is Sturgeon delivering that guarantee.

    She is delivering that guarantee at the cost of the independence movement.

    Nicola, it is time to go.

  166. hackalumpoff says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker @ 31 July, 2020 at 5:05 pm

    100% with you on all that, not that I am a member any more.

  167. Bob Mack says:


    That is incredible. By the time you finished writing that you must have been spinning like Ariadne. Delude yourself if you prefer. Sometimes the truth is very difficult to accept.

    Ps Me Cherry was trying to help stop our Brexit which is a damn site more than any other SNP member did.?

  168. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 7:40pm

    What “spin“? What fact have I “spun“?

  169. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 7:40pm
    Me Cherry was trying to help stop our Brexit which is a damn site more than any other SNP member did

    Careful now. Your outing her as an SNP politician side tracked by non-indy issues. You’ll have the faithful on here burning crosses in her front garden before long.

  170. Tannadice Boy says:

    Bob Mack/ Red sunset

    Apologies to Red Sunset. I can’t tell friend from foe these days Bob Mack. New leadership to get everybody back on board.

  171. Graeme says:

    I wish I knew what Alex Salmond was thinking right now, he has to watching all this with some interest.

    As a movement we badly need a leader, someone we can all get behind, someone dedicated to independence, the problem is we’re Scots and we don’t do unity we never have,

  172. Bob Mack says:


    Forget it. Save me oxygen.

  173. Betsy says:

    Re James Dornan.

    This email to branch members is interesting.

  174. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 7:53pm

    No answers then?

  175. Bob Mack says:



  176. Asklair says:

    Its all positive, list/regional vote must now be for an Indy candidate, will New SNP survive in an independent Scotland. Really twist things if I said this is “plan B”.

  177. crazycat says:

    @ SilverDarling

    I can’t now remember where I read that R Spear (I agree with WhoRattledYourCage’s assessment of her, by the way) was interested in A & B. I assumed she thought it was a safe seat, rather than somewhere she has a connection to.

    After I’d told you that, though, the stushie with James Dorman erupted, and it now seems she might be aiming to replace him in Cathcart , which is her neck of the woods.

    So who knows.

  178. Dogbiscuit says:

    The SNP are showing themselves as real bare faced political crooks.
    Sturgeon trying to fix it so her candidate gets in. She runs the SNP like Hitler playing her acolytes off against one another.
    She obviously has a political reason to maintain lockdown’ with a prolonged false sense of emergency.
    The face mask erects borders between people with a ‘death strip’ no mans land in between.
    The First Minister is going to be remembered for the damage she is doing to Scotland.
    By the by a little bird told me Matt Hancock has shares in a pharmaceutical company. One of the video commenters on Anna Brees YouTube channel. Hancock has a single minded determination to steer us toward vaccines. Mandatory? And if they are who has the courage to resist? I know you are out there. Resist corporate crypto fascist state.

  179. Tinto Chiel says:

    red sunset: “While that may or may not be noticed, or cared, what will hurt the party is the number of activists who will hold back from campaigning next year.”

    Yes, plus those who won’t give the SNP a penny until they campaign unequivocally for independence.

    Whether canvassing or marching with AUOB, I’ve often felt we’re just the Gove on the leadership’s shoe anyway.

    A lot of useless Ph.Ds to be had in the future analysing how the SNP blew all its leverage and mandates since 2016. I’m really losing patience with the pom-pom twirlers for Nicky now too. They’re like the poor proles in Stalin’s USSR who would bewail the excesses of the NKVD and whimper, “If only The Great Leader knew.”

    If you don’t know after today’s shenanigans, you’ll never know.

  180. Dogbiscuit says:

    Bongo Pinny what push pash you slander up trying to blame other people for Nicola Sturgeons failure to deliver on Independence. You’re a dog face pony soldier flying in the face of reality.
    Joe Biden approves this massage.

  181. Dogbiscuit says:

    First Minister is either very bad or very stupid perhaps both? I suppose one begets the other.
    What explains Mingle Dongle Poncy?

  182. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Prefer your Contes de la légion étrangère @schrodingers cat schrodingers cat says at 6:43 pm

  183. Dogbiscuit says:

    The Queens shilling? Ha ha ha ha

  184. Lewis Moonie says:

    First class piece as usual.
    This is an utter disgrace, just to secure a seat for another tainted ally, married to another.
    These people don’t give a fuck about Indy. Only their own miserable political existence.

  185. Terry callachan says:

    Let’s be honest here
    It’s up to the SNP to decide who is best to stand for a seat
    It’s not and never has been policy to allow individuals to decide themselves
    Sure there have been a couple of exceptions but on the whole the party decides

    As for J Cherry being talked of as a contender to take over leadership of SNP from N Sturgeon it’s just a crazy thought by crazy people the last thing Scottish independence needs right now is a leadership contest gee we’ve just managed to get a clear majority …..under the leadership of NS and it looks like a clear majority that is holding

    A person talking of a leadership contest at this time is in my view either wayward and out of touch or they’ve been flipped and are doing the job of the opposition

    Like NS or not , like NEC or not , like decisions about who can stand for whatever seat or not there is one thing that stands high and mighty above all of it and that is
    “ securing Scottish independence “

    For the first time ever we now have 54% supporting Scottish independence
    and some nutters want a leadership contest !!

    The thing to do right now is ignore the ignoramous that calls for a leadership contest
    Ignore the howls about laws being introduced by Scottish government
    Ignore calls for NS to be replaced

    NS has earned the right to deliver Scottish independence as leader of SNP and the Scottish government
    She has earned it by getting a clear majority in favour of Scottish independence
    Button it if you want some other person as leader
    Don’t let your personal views and action plans spoil a winning team

    No winning team has ever and I do mean ever, had cordial relations throughout the whole team
    It’s not possible

    Support your leader if they’re winning
    NS is undoubtedly winning

    If she loses the lead you can then come in with your suggestions for alternatives

    But until that happens you are just a troublemaker

  186. crisiscult says:

    I should probably know this but I don’t. Can you vote in Holyrood election ONLY on list i.e. leave the constituency vote blank?

  187. Davie Oga says:

    Sturgeon’s SNP

    Free speech criminalised
    Sexual deviants in your daughters changeroom
    People who think children can consent to sex on the National Executive
    Catchy age appropriate anal sex lessons for 10 year olds
    Pederast as Finance minister
    Fake Organizations funded by the Scottish Government to support the Scottish government
    Men taking women women’s places from sport to politics to the boardroom
    No party democracy
    Perjurers protected by anonimity while trying to put a political rival in prison.
    One of the highest Covid death rates in the world.
    Thousands of Scottish pensioners killed through incompetence
    No honesty
    No accountability
    Loss of EU citizenship
    Surrender of Scottish Sovereignty
    Failure to deliver mandate after mandate
    Lying about having a referendum

    As a parent, a husband, and a patriot, I can honestly say that I have never been more repulsed by a political party.

  188. Clapper57 says:

    @ Tannadice Boy @ 6.50pm


    Have a nice evening

  189. SilverDarling says:


    As soon as Mike Russell announced his retiral from Holyrood her name was mentioned so I wonder if they have a group of tick every box wokie handmaidens who will be touted round every ‘female’ only list?

    I am waiting for the execrable MissLeeze to turn up any time soon.

  190. crazycat says:

    @ Terry callachan at 8.26

    It’s up to the SNP to decide who is best to stand for a seat
    It’s not and never has been policy to allow individuals to decide themselves
    Sure there have been a couple of exceptions but on the whole the party decides

    It should be for the branch to decide.
    The individuals decide whether to stand, then if they pass vetting, the branch chooses between them.

    Not the NEC.

  191. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Can you vote in Holyrood election ONLY on list i.e. leave the constituency vote blank?”

    Yes you can.

  192. Will the reform bill of the Gender Recognition Act be voted on this term or will it have to wait until next Holyrood parliament,

    if next term i would think Joanna could scupper the reform bill so the misogynists and peodophile enablers deffo don`t want her leading the call for the reform bill to be flushed down the kazzy,

    not sure about Angus`s views on the GRA misogyny bill.

  193. Keith fae Leith says:


    I believe you have to mark the Constituency vote, either with a vote or a manner of spoiling the ballot, then you can vote on the Regional List (2nd vote)

  194. crazycat says:

    @ Silver Darling


    I’ve never approved of all-women (or all-anything-else, for that matter) shortlists. The shortage of women elected politicians is due to the culture of parliament, and there is no guarantee at all that those who do put their names forward will be of a higher standard than the mediocre men who previously got in by default.

  195. crisiscult says:

    Thanks Rev and Keith – slightly conflicting there but anyway, my current plan is to vote for an alternative indy party on the list only and to campaign for others to do the same. Social media will only go so far so we need activists on the streets with a plan.

    I’m in Humza’s seat so wouldn’t do any harm to lose a few careerists and hopefully, if it all works out, have an SNP minority with a couple of scalps in the process. SNP would hopefully be dependent on that indy party’s support. Alternatively, SNP could campaign on a very clear manifesto that guarantees a referendum without a S30 or whatever the plan B would be. I couldn’t vote for SNP if their manifesto is the same as last year.

  196. crazycat says:

    @ Keith fae Leith


    There are two entirely separate ballot papers, deposited in two different ballot boxes, and although the numbers on them could be used to work out whether people had voted on both or only one, there is no requirement to complete one before being issued with the other.

    Even if there were, it’s a secret ballot, so the polling staff would have no idea whether there was a mark on the paper you had just posted through the slot in the top of the box.

    Consequently, the staff give you both papers simultaneously, to take into the booth and do what you will with.

  197. Keith fae Leith says:

    Thanks for the correction Crazycat

  198. Heather McLean says:

    James Dornan on Twitter
    “Ok folks, last night the NEC voted to impose an all women shortlist on the constituents of Glasgow Cathcart, the constituency I have served to the best of my ability for the last 10 years. Obviously I am challenging what I consider to be a decision based on a false premise

    I consider myself to be the best candidate for this constituency, that I live in and grew up on. If anyone wishes to challenge me then they should have the courage to take me on, not try to manipulate others into doing their job for them. I intend to stand and will fight to do so“

  199. Clapper57 says:

    @ SilverDarling @ 6.41pm

    Yep…I’m beyond apathy….self keep my sanity.

    The list nominated for peerages today is a f**king disgrace but is one of many under the Tories…..

    Meanwhile….what happens now ?

    Have a nice evening

  200. crazycat says:

    @ Keith fae Leith

    You’re welcome.

    I know I’m a geek, but it does bother me when politically aware, active people like the commenters on here don’t know these things (though they have presumably voted before!) – because it’s likely that the general public won’t know either.

    That’s how the SLabbers got away with telling voters they had to vote for a different party on the list, or that they couldn’t vote for 2 council candidates from the same party, and kindred other pieces of disinformation.

  201. Breeks says:

    I hope in my heart this is day 1 of the Revolution that actually will set Scotland free.

    The phoney war is over. The charlatans and deceivers are exposed for the cheats, fraudsters and gravy train parasites that they are.

    What we need now is something progressive around which the true Indy supporters can come together around and coalesce… ideally, a new Independence Party with Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond, the real supporters of Scottish Independence, and most importantly, at it’s heart, SCOTLAND’S SOVEREIGN CONSTITUTION and the popular sovereignty of the people.

    Up the Revolution!

  202. tartanfever says:

    Robert Graham says:
    31 July, 2020 at 6:10 pm
    Ok all you smart arses

    What’s the end game ?

    We know it’s not Indy ref 2 so that can be discounted why would anyone manufacture a split ?

    But what is exactly the point


    As far as I can work it, the end game is Independence.

    However, there are factors into how to attain this.

    Firstly, the current SNP do not believe that a new Referendum can be won without the huge detrimental effect of Brexit befalling us. We have to suffer the full fallout to balance the effect of the British Media and State going into Hyperdrive. If you think the 2014 campaign was biased, you haven’t seen anything yet.

    That is why the referendum has been put off for the last few years, simply because at the time Brexit was being put back. We’ve now only left last Jan, it was supposed to happen three years prior.

    We have to go through Brexit and then make our own minds up. Things will be so terrible in this new UK that people will naturally become Independence supporters. This will help counter the unionist media onslaught that will undoubtedly happen.

    Secondly, Sturgeon wants to appeal to everyone. She has many previous Indy supporters in her pocket, they will always vote SNP regardless of Government Policy (see MeBungoPony )

    She has the wokerati kind of on track with her GRA reforms and HateBill Act. Although sidelined until after the next election, it’s still a promise to those supporters that can be fulfilled. It’s carrot dangling.

    On the other hand, she wants to win the Edinburgh Middle Classes over, so be a UK foreign policy hawk ie, blame Russia, China etc etc, the usual enemies and follow neo liberal economics, support banks and private enterprise and place middle class candidates, like Angus Robertson into Edinburgh constituencies.
    He’s the kind of bloke that you can invite over for a G&T at your garden party. He’s safe, middle classes will recognise him as one of their own.

    The culmination of all of this is that Sturgeon wants to be ‘everything to everyone’, and that is the way to win Independence.

    Of course, it’s utterly ludicrous, and what we are seeing is that falling apart because at a fundamental level, it makes you a jack of all trades, with no clear policy and prone to accusations of being a hypocrite.

    That’s my take. Sorry for the long post.

  203. Harry mcaye says:

    Seems appropriate to add my disgust to the thread. Already said earlier in the week that I wouldn’t be voting SNP next year despite having delivered thousands of leaflets for them. Today just vindicated my decision. What a shower!

  204. Keith fae Leith says:

    Crazycat, have been voting since i turned 18, 3 days before the 2003 Holyrood (Though it wasn’t actually based there yet).

    the reason for my confusion is that I’ve never had temptation or cause to spoil my ballot until now. my constituency vote then didn’t return my preferred candidate, but the List vote did.

    My current MSP (Constituency) has been sent an email today asking for his views on certain matters that have come to light in the recent past. If he doesn’t answer to my liking I’ll not be voting for him.

    Depending on the Candidates standing I fear my 1st vote will be spoiled for the first time.

  205. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Haven’t been able to read comments all day and have just caught up.

    What a wonderful thread. It feels like the WOS of old.

    WhoRattledYourCage (4.01) – it’s been a long time since a comment here gave me the proper tingles. It reminded me of people I knew a long time ago and miss horribly from time to time, especially when you really feel like going out and having a square-go with a similarly-minded stranger. Simply soo-perb. More power to ye.

    Crazycat (8.38) – I won’t be the only one who is grateful that you put the hapless Terry callachan’s gas at a peep. Here’s hoping he has enough self-respect to just leave it there for a while.

    Just cracked a can and I hereby raise it to you all. Sitting back now to watch more splendid commentary dropping in as the night progresses.



  206. Paul K says:

    Jesus, what a kerfuffle. People need to calm down, take a deep breath, compose themselves and approach this in a sensible, rational manner. That’s why I’ll be adding Joanna Cherry’s name to my Edinburgh Central ballot paper and putting an X next to it.

  207. velofello says:

    Opportunity knocks for the Greens – declare that their major policy for the Holyrood elections are to secure a mandate for an Indy referendum within 2021, and disenchanted SNP voters can then vote for Indy and avoid endorsing the SNP GRA and Hate Crime agenda.

    Drum up some good candidates for a List Party, and unite under one party.

    Never thought i’d think that but as a +30 years SNP supporter and member I’m appalled by today’s events.

    The behaviour towards Joanna Cherry, James Dornan, Michelle Thompson, Grouse Beater, McDonald(?),and Alex Salmond indicates that there are some cold eyed individuals lurking in the SNP.

  208. crazycat says:

    @ Keith fae Leith

    I’ve been voting since October 1974!! (I was most dis-chuffed when Heath called the election in February of that year, and I thought it might be 5 years before I was able to cast my first vote for anything other than a councillor, but of course that turned out not to be the case. And yes, I do realize everyone who can be bothered can now work out how old I am to within a few months.)

    In all that time, I’ve never seriously considering invalidating my ballot, either. But I am doing that now, even though I like my MSP and she has done well in government in two difficult ministries.

  209. crazycat says:

    @ velofello

    Opportunity knocks for the Greens – declare that their major policy for the Holyrood elections are to secure a mandate for an Indy referendum within 2021, and disenchanted SNP voters can then vote for Indy and avoid endorsing the SNP GRA and Hate Crime agenda.

    You do know that the Greens are even worse wrt the GRA, don’t you?
    That they sort their candidates into “men” and “non-men”?
    That no-one may be a member without agreeing that transwomen are women and there is no debate about that?

    There isn’t enough money in the universe to bribe me to vote Green again (I have done in the past because I agree with some of their environmental policies, though even there they can be disturbingly unscientific).

  210. Robert Louis says:

    The SNP are now a joke, and so is Angus Robertson.

    Can anybody ever take him seriously again?? How pathetic does a potential MSP candidate have to be, that in order to ensure they get selected, they LITERALLY have the rules changed.

    Does Edinburgh central have to select Angus, or could they f*ck the SNP leadershio, and still go ahead and select somebody else?

    I seriously hope Angus loses. I realy do, and if selected I hope the good voters of Edinburgh realise what a corrupt fraudeulent party the SNP have become, and vote for somebody else as their MSP.

    Angus isn’t even from Edinburgh, FFS.

    But then, we do need to remember who his wife is, don’t we. Hmmmmmm…..

    Thier is something really really rotten within the SNP, and it starts right at the top, with Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell. Together, they are literally trashing what was for decades a great political party. That will be Nicola’s legacy, the woman who destroyed the SNP. I think they have no desire to get independence at all, I think they are merely milking the SNP while they can.

    Time we started looking much more analytically and critically at the behaviour of Nicola Sturgeon and her husband, who happens to be the chief executive of the SNP.

    It isn’t just the tories who are using the cover of the Covid pandemic to get up to no good. Nicola is right in there, too, merrily trashing the independence movement with each passing day. No SNP party conference, no awkward questions. Hiding away in Bute House, whilst stabbing good people in the back.

    This whole business stinks, and Angus needn’t think it is going away. Their are many who are now dead set against him becoming an MSP, nad they are all indy supporters or in the SNP.

  211. Tinto Chiel says:

    @crazycat 9.36: whippersnapper! Have voted SNP since February 1974.

    What the flying fruitbat has happened to the party?

  212. Robert Louis says:

    Kapelmeister at 137pm,

    An excellent post. Thier is something rotten about all of this. Either NS is complicit, oris it that she is compromised in some way, and has been forced under threat to act in this way?

    Perhaps we don’t just need a new list party for independence? Mibbes we need to just dump the SNP in its entirety?

    As a gay man, weho does not subscribe to the gender, LGBTQQIAA+++ nonsense, I will now find it very hard to vote SNP again. I mean seriously, why would a gay man vote for the SNP when it is actively pursuing homophobic legislation??

    Furtyher to the point, the SNP today actively blocked an openly lesbian (and rather excellent) candidate standing for Edinburgh central, as an MSP candidate. In the SNP, everybody is ‘equal’, but some are more equal than others, eh Angus?

    Meanwhile, more and more LGB folk are waking up to just EXACTLY what these silly gender laws will actually mean for them.

  213. Rab Dickson says:

    Is Me Bungo Pony, Angus Robertson….or his wife?
    Asking for a friend.

  214. Intractable Potsherd says:

    This has been a great thread to read. The treatment of Joanna Cherry has been the final straw for me, so I resigned my SNP membership not 15 minutes ago. For what it is worth, here is my resignation email:

    To all concerned,

    I have today resigned my membership and support for the Scottish National Party. It is with some regret that I do this, but a number of issues have come to a head today. I hope that someone will read this email and realise that the Party has taken several wrong steps, and so does not represent me, or many other previous supporters.

    1. Lack of progress in the fight for independence. With Brexit and Westminster’s dire handling of the Covid-19 situation, you could have made serious inroads into the Unionist position. However, you have completely wasted this, even with a growing majority for Scottish independence. It seems that the fire for an independent Scotland no longer burns in the SNP leadership.

    2. The GRA Bill, which serves no purpose other than to persuade ordinary people that the SNP leadership have lost grip of reality. A person with a penis is not, and never will be, a woman. To state otherwise denies biology and puts women at risk.

    3. The Hate Speech Bill is utterly illiberal. Free speech should be encouraged, not penalised. The over-broad definitions will stifle ordinary opinions from being aired, for no good reason. The fact that a very broad range of organisations have publicly spoken out against it should be a serious point for the Party to take, but, once again, the leadership prefers to deny reality.

    4. The treatment of Alex Salmond and Craig Murray is beyond despicable. Huge amounts of money have been, and continue to be, wasted on what appear to be punishment of people who do not agree with the the SNP leadership.

    5. The final straw came today with the treatment of Joanna Cherry. This seems to be a case of moving goalposts to achieve the aim of wrongly protecting the current leadership.

    I do not know how I will vote in the future. If a credible party that supports independence beyond all else is on the ballot paper, it is likely to be them. I hope that this will be the SNP, but, at the moment, I am closely following the new ISP. If a party is formed that includes Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Joanna Cherry, and/or supporters of Wings Over Scotland, I will almost certainly vote for that party, regardless if the SNP being in the ballot.

    Yours sincerely,

    [Intractable Potsherd]

    Fingers crossed for a real independence party very soon!!

  215. Michael Laing says:

    Well, that’s my SNP membership resignation submitted. I’ve voted SNP in every election since 1983 when I was 19, but I’ve told them I won’t be voting for them again unless they take immediate steps to secure Scotland’s independence and EU membership. I also registered my opposition to gender self-ID, and my disgust regarding the conspiracy to destroy Alex Salmond and the utterly undemocratic gerrymandering of the selection process in Edinburgh Central. It’s intolerable.

    To think I used to say that Nicola Sturgeon was the very embodiment of Scottishness and that I was proud to have her leading Scotland. She certainly had me fooled.

  216. Michael Laing says:

    My message to the SNP explaining my resignation:

    I passionately believe that Scotland must be independent, and that steps must be taken immediately to secure Scotland’s independence. The SNP has been given mandate after and mandate and opportunity after opportunity to secure independence since 2014, and has done nothing.

    Instead, the SNP is attempting to implement policies which defy biological fact, which amount to thought-policing, and which have no popular support. It is biologically impossible for a man to be a woman or a woman to be a man, and the idea that a man must be accepted as a woman or vice versa just because he or she ‘identifies’ as such is utterly fatuous. These policies are wholly irrelevant to the securing of independence, which is supposed to be the SNP’s core aim.

    I am also disgusted by what has clearly been a conspiracy to destroy Alex Salmond on the basis of falsely-concocted accusations, and to erase him from history. This conspiracy appears to have been initiated by the present leadership of the SNP. It is utterly corrupt and intolerable, if not criminal. Alex Salmond has done infinitely more to bring about Scotland’s independence than the present SNP leadership, and I regard him as a national hero. Those who sought to destroy him deserve the deepest contempt.

    Finally, the party executive has now gerrymandered the nomination process for the Edinburgh Central constituency by arbitrarily and undemocratically changing the rules to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing. I am extremely angry about this. Quite frankly, Nicola Sturgeon is demonstrating the narcissism, paranoia and mania for power of a Hitler or Stalin.

    I once regarded Nicola Sturgeon to be the very embodiment of Scottishness and I was proud to support her. Unfortunately, I’ve been taken for a fool. I no longer wish to be associated with a party which is not single-mindedly focused on securing Scotland’s independence. Nor will I vote for the SNP in future elections UNLESS IMMEDIATE ACTION is taken to secure Scotland’s independence and continued membership of the EU.

    I hope you are listening.

  217. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Intractable Potsherd (10.08) –

    Well done indeed.

    I hope you will consider re-posting that comment on the latest thread as many readers join in with whatever’s ongoing.



  218. Michael Laing says:

    @Robert Louis says:

    “An excellent post. Thier is something rotten about all of this. Either NS is complicit, oris it that she is compromised in some way, and has been forced under threat to act in this way?

    “Perhaps we don’t just need a new list party for independence? Mibbes we need to just dump the SNP in its entirety?”

    My thoughts exactly.

    Who knows what the situation will be following the parliamentary inquiry into the Salmond case, though? Perhaps Sturgeon will be toppled and sanity will prevail. Otherwise, I feel that voting for the SNP now serves no purpose and that we’re going to need a new party that’s fully committed to independence.

  219. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Could Angus’s ‘selection’ for the Edinburgh seat be his pre-agreed reward for a ‘service rendered’ to The Party Leadership?

  220. velofello says:

    @ crazycat; oops wasn’t aware of the Greens GRA stuff.

    In my admitted limited circle of acquaintances I’ve yet to meet a supporter of GRA.
    Maybe I need to get out more, or maybe me, and my acquaintances need to be more pro-active in expressing our views on GRA.

    I grew up in the post-WW2 rationing era. We saw ladies who wore dungarees, and men who had close men friends. Never an issue for us, but for the authorities, political and religious yes. Now just about every TV broadcast talks about mental health. Why is this? Are we corralled?

  221. CameronB Brodie says:

    Mental health is part of general health, which should be a concern for all. However, British constitutionalism is enabling authoritarian English nationalism to deny Scots access to human rights. Including the right to health.

    No health without
    mental health
    A cross-government mental health outcomes
    strategy for people of all ages

  222. Annie 621 says:

    Dear Alistair..
    I was holding and holding,for two years,then today 31 July 2020,the final nail in the coffin.
    Snp has changed and changed utterly.
    Betrayal and cowardice the ultimate sins.
    Was Judas Scottish?

  223. Annie 621 says:

    Intractable Portshead…

    Ditto, today 31 July 2020, final nail in coffin…appears there are many of us..

    Alex,Stu,Craig,Cherry..just the beginning.
    Well, it’s a dream, and dreams….

  224. Effijy says:

    I have several remarkable woman in my family but this SNP
    Women only candidate list just doesn’t work.

    What if Mike Russell, Alex Salmond and John Swinney were all I the same
    Constituency and a lively wee woman called Sadie who can’t read and write
    So well are the only party members looming to stand.

    SNP put wee Sadie in and the rest decide to give politics a miss.

    Pun intended.

  225. red sunset says:

    Annie 621 says:
    31 July, 2020 at 11:36 pm
    Was Judas Scottish?

    No, but Pontius Pilate was. Born in Perthshire seemingly. His dad was a Roman diplomat or something.

  226. Polly says:

    ‘No, but Pontius Pilate was.’

    He wasn’t such a bad guy either.

  227. Polly says:

    ‘Could Angus’s ‘selection’ for the Edinburgh seat be his pre-agreed reward for a ‘service rendered’ to The Party Leadership?’

    Aye, it’s a family affair.

  228. Willie says:

    Robertson is to put the phrase on it a piece of shit.

    Unable to put himself up for a fair fight against Joanna Cherry the sleaze bag and his equally odious wife Jennifer D now R seeks to secure the set through foul means to restrict Joanna Cherry.

    As a near forty year member I will not ever support a piece of crap like Robertson. He and his D now R alphabeted wife are poison, and this guy, and his mentors have just signed their political death warrants. His chances of becoming an SNP MSP are now absolutely zilch.

  229. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi schrodingers cat at 6:43 pm.

    You typed,
    “the snp backed angus in the central edin constituency, no question.

    why cherry wanted to enter the race against angus is anyones guess, especially since edin southern and western are up for grabs too?”

    I normally agree with much of you type, although you have been a tad erratic lately.

    My recollection of trying to keep up with “the news” is that Ms Cherry was the first to raise interest in the Holyrood seat.
    Marmalade’s interest was announced a week or three behind Ms Cherry’s.

    It’s too late to look for links – I’ve had a long day. But I must type that I am becoming more disillusioned with the the direction that the SNP seems to be taking.

  230. Brian Doonthetoon says:


    I have just caught up with links posted here today and I must type, I’m APPALLED.

    It looks like, for some reason, our party is on a route to to self-implode. What’s the point?

    My depression is at the greatest it has been since I was travelling back from the Arbroath count at around 6am on the morning of 19/09/2014.

    Whit’s goan on?

  231. Polly says:

    ‘Whit’s goan on?’

    We’re all asking that. How did we get here comes next.

  232. Polly says:

    ‘My recollection of trying to keep up with “the news” is that Ms Cherry was the first to raise interest in the Holyrood seat.’

    Yes that’s my recollection too.

  233. Not Polly says:

    I was slightly surprised to see Mr Roberton’s announcement not accompanied by the traditional photograph featuring a dutiful wife gazing in pride and expectation at the candidate. Has he become single again? Or is there some other explanation for the apparent omission?

  234. SOG says:

    I don’t know the location, but I’ll guess the Embra Central constituency would be close to the Parliament with relatively easy travel, and covering a compact area. The sort that would help a candidate with a young family become a valued representative.

    The very place for an All-Female list?

  235. Charles O'Brien says:

    A number of years ago when we were getting a number of ex-Labour members joining us I said openly welcome to them but don’t bring the bad cliques with the good you have. Our aim is independence and we seemed to have strayed a bit recently and we also have people moving ideas that should be kept till after we regain our independence that there seems to be some cliques at work in our party they need removed so that the party regains our independence.

  236. ‘Ian Brotherhood says:
    31 July, 2020 at 9:21 pm
    Haven’t been able to read comments all day and have just caught up.

    What a wonderful thread. It feels like the WOS of old.

    WhoRattledYourCage (4.01) – it’s been a long time since a comment here gave me the proper tingles. It reminded me of people I knew a long time ago and miss horribly from time to time, especially when you really feel like going out and having a square-go with a similarly-minded stranger. Simply soo-perb. More power to ye.’

    Thanks, Ian. I am beyond sick of these simpering vengeful faux-American halfwits who think they’re educated’ in the top tiers of the SNP. Clearly educated beyond their intelligence levels. I have grow up on extreme art, am a writer, and they can take my free speech when they cut my tongue from my cold dead head. Have a look at my blog, I have a few examples of modern Scottish political writing there, including the one I link to in my name above. Got much more to come shortly. Slainte!

  237. Willie says:

    Under noted is a link to a piece by Iain Lawson.

    It summarises very well what so many SNP members think. It is well worth a read.

  238. Polly says:

    I love this one.

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