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Jenny Marra is a liar

Posted on February 26, 2019 by

Yesterday afternoon the Labour list MSP Jenny Marra tweeted this allegation about Dr Drew Walker, the Director Of Public Health for NHS Tayside:

It wasn’t true. But that wasn’t the worst of it.

Marra later tweeted that NHS Tayside were investigating the allegation:

But went oddly quiet when the results of the investigation were released:

The pin Dr Walker was wearing was a white ribbon, as seen in this picture of him at a previous meeting published by the Courier as part of their story:

Here’s a close-up:

It’s the symbol of the White Ribbon campaign, which seeks to involve men actively in the fight against domestic violence. As you can see, it could easily be misinterpreted as an upside-down SNP logo (as could almost all similar ribbons of different colours used by various campaigns):

And that’s all fine, up to a point. Anyone can make an honest mistake. But 16 hours later, having been told repeatedly by countless people of her error, Jenny Marra hasn’t issued a correction or apology to Dr Walker, or deleted either of her tweets making the false claims. And nor do we expect her to.

Because it’s not the first time she’s been caught out lying about NHS Tayside and failing to retract it. Last year she claimed that departing chief Lesley McLay had received a £300,000 payoff – a figure Marra appeared to have completely invented:

The actual package McLay received – her standard legal and contractual entitlement – was less than a third of the amount claimed by Marra:

Marra again issued no retraction or apology for her false claim.

Labour, of course, have no compunction whatsoever about using NHS employees for political purposes when it suits them. In 2015 this site was subjected to a sustained and vitriolic media and Labour attack over a nurse who Labour had pictured in her NHS uniform on campaign leaflets:

Since NHS employees aren’t supposed to wear their uniform in political material lest it be taken as the NHS endorsing a party, we’d suggested that perhaps Labour may have used an actress to portray one. In fact it turned out that while the nurse WAS an actress in her spare time, Labour had simply recklessly failed to airbrush out the NHS logo on their leaflet, putting the nurse at risk of being fired for breaking the rules. We’d credited the party with too much competence.

When the full facts came out, we made sure to state clearly that she was a real nurse as well as an actress, and as we’d never insulted her or made any false allegations about her in the first place there was nothing to retract or apologise for.

Jenny Marra made a categorical factual statement about Dr Drew Walker which wasn’t true, just as she’d done about Lesley McLay, implying he’d behaved improperly, but has made no effort at all to correct or apologise for either one, and indeed has left the original false claims in place for people to read and retweet.

Such a lack of elementary decency and dignity is now dismayingly common among Unionist politicians, as was recently seen in the case of pro-Brexit Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski who doggedly stuck to an extraordinary lie about the post-war Marshall Plan despite an avalanche of indisputable evidence to the contrary.

For Scottish Labour, though, it’s not so much a series of unfortunate errors as a modus operandi, and Jenny Marra is one of its prime proponents. We wish we could express any hope that this would be the last example, or that the Scottish media would treat it in the same outraged way as they did when we DIDN’T make a false claim about an NHS employee. But as ever, we won’t be holding our breath.

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  1. 26 02 19 09:56

    Jenny Marra is a liar | speymouth

348 to “Jenny Marra is a liar”

  1. Brotyboy says:

    I understand she’s married to a DC Thomson family member, so we won’t be seeing The Courier looking at this.

  2. HandandShrimp says:

    Remarkable that a Labour MSP should not be aware of the white ribbon campaign or take so much umbrage over a CND badge. The kind of attitudes and response you would expect from a Murdo or Rees Mogg.

    What a shabby state Labour is in.

  3. Just a thought,

    maybe she doesnae ken how tae delete a tweet,

    she is Labour ken.

  4. defo says:

    3 Cheers for JM. This’ll have opened a few more eyes to the unionist’s lies.
    Every little helps !

  5. sassenach says:

    What a surprise!!!
    Jenny Marra can’t help herself.

  6. winifred mccartney says:

    It is a sad but true fact that lies, damn lies and labour lies are all they have left. The SNP Govt is too competent for them and so they are only left with lies and it is not a new thing. Think of JB, remember her saying one thing to a labour audience and exactly the opposite in parliament, they simply have not yet realised they are easily found out with todays communications and the fact that some of us a talking to one another. Labour, grand masters in the lying field, just think of the Glasgow women and equal pay and the dear RL’s role then they have the gall to claim credit for the women getting their pay. If only they realised how stupid they look. I hope the Glasgow women continue with the case against their unions and sue the pants off them for what they did. Only last year Johan Lamont’s husband voted against equal pay for women. Unbelievable.

  7. shug says:

    SNP should call her out at first ministers questions

    Then we can watch the BBC air brush it out

    What a bunch of jokers

  8. louis.b.argyll says:

    Don’t let her off with it. She is a professional liar. Knows exactly what she’s doing. Is she in contempt of her responsibilities?

    Keep it up Rev.

  9. Scott Cameron says:

    Jenny is married to DC Thomson exec John Thomson, and as such has carte blanche when it comes to access to The Courier, Evening Telegraph etc.

  10. Brian Powell says:

    I guess folk naively believe there is some Parliamentary mechanism of dealing with liars like Marra, but there is nothing unless perhaps it is repeated in Parliament, which she won’t.

    I now believe this isn’t a new phenomena brought about by the Ind Ref but judging by the Labour Councillors it is long standing and endemic.

  11. john boy says:

    Does she have a relative from Glasgow called C U Ra Marra?

  12. bobajock says:

    Ahhhhh – the ties to the meedja that she has …

    Labour scum.

  13. Marcia says:

    Scott Cameron

    During her first term of office, future the in-laws newspaper gave her quite a fair amount of coverage in the local papers almost to the point of covering the opening of her mail or opening of her curtains. Thankfully the local papers did print the photo of the 2016 Dundee West Holyrood declaration which showed her discomfiture of losing by quite a wide margin. It was a picture to behold. All that publicity for nothing.

  14. Truth says:

    @Scott Cameron 9:31

    Ah, that explains why she was able to have a go at the same man in the Evening Telegraph. Seems like she’s on some sort of vendetta.

  15. Iain says:

    I find her attitude as an example of the incredible tribalism of the Labour Party, based on an apparent belief that in any given circumstance it, or its member, is always right and can do no wrong. Whatever the issue, whatever the circumstances, whether the leadership’s current tactical position is left of centre or right of centre, the core belief of the true believers in the sanctity of the existence of the Party and its members holds.

    There’s not so much of a core political belief as a collective expression of antipathetic and resentful personalities.

  16. Republicofscotland says:

    Disgraceful by Marra, she should apologise imediately, mind you her credibility died awhile back along with the London Labour branch office in Scotland.

    Carping from the sidelines and deceit appear to be the Labour branch office in Scotland mainstay.

  17. Bob Mack says:

    These days I am more likely to believe Unionists are always liars than David Ikes claim that the Royal family are secret lizard beings.

    You never know though.

    Politics is a dirty game , and today’s Unionist representatives are covered in the grime from the very bottom of that particular barrel.

  18. mike cassidy says:

    Truth 9.50.

    Good find!

  19. I would like to see her being made to make a full and unreserved public apology to Dr Walker, and I would also suggest she should consider her position and resign as an MSP.

    Though I would hold my breath on her doing the latter

  20. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Right folks – get posting.

    If this story about Jenny Marra gets to 777 comments, then surely the Rev will need to put Jenny top of the Thickos league, displacing current leader James Kelly.

  21. Scott Cameron says:

    I also know someone who was at school (St John’s) at the same time and described her as “horrible, utterly horrible”.

  22. starlaw says:

    Jenny Marra Spotted exactly what she was the first time I heard her talk.

  23. JOML says:

    I attended a debate at Holyrood back in 2014, concerning the potential impact of independence on the Scottish Finance industry. Marra was on the panel and obviously knew little of the Finance industry – so much so that she resorted to telling the audience THREE times that her grandfather was at Dunkirk! Sound bites and bullshit was all we got from her that day and it appears nothing has changed.

  24. dakk says:

    Of course it could be that the good doctor isn’t really that bothered about whether anyone gets the shit beaten out of them by a member of the opposite sex,and just wears the ribbon ’cause it looks like an SNP badge.

    Yes. That will be it.

    Guilty as sin.

    Where would we be without lovely honest british nationalist people like Jenny Mara.

  25. potter says:

    Jenny Marra is a horror. Her campaign against the Mental Health services in Tayside was given almost daily publicity by the shiterag The Courier. Using the families of people who had committed suicide for political gain, parading them around Holyrood demanding the resignation of Shona Robison. This has lead to poor moral and experinced clinicians leaving the service. Marra however is silent when it is pointed out to her there were 100 less suicides in Tayside in the period the SNP were in office than when Labour were. A horror ambulance chasing politician.

  26. dakk says:

    I retract my earlier statement at 10.30.

    I believe the SNP deliberately designed their logo to look like any light coloured ribbon for good causes in order to make it look like they have a bigger following of decent thoughtful people than they actually have.

    Aye, that’s what it’ll be.

  27. dakk says:

    Pardon the good doctor,it was that SNP at it again.

  28. Cubby says:

    All the Britnats have left are desperate lies.

    British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

  29. Jock says:

    She is now claiming on twitter that he was wearing a YES wristband.

  30. Republicofscotland says:

    The Marra duplicitous Tweet is still up, not even a hint of embarrassment, or apology from London Labour’s Scots lackey.

  31. David Mills says:

    Someone get Jenny some help hallucinating enemies were there are none could be an indication on an underlying psychosis

    Ironically in steady of attack the NHS she may be better seeking their assistance.

  32. Macart says:

    Politics as it is practised… Q.E.D. moment.

    And they wonder why folk don’t trust the big institutions of the political class or government anymore? 🙄

    Could be because folk are tired of being overtly manipulated, insulted or misled on a daily basis. They might want to think about that.

  33. Scottish Steve says:

    I have never heard of this non-entity before. Is this why she makes up lies? To get in the nedia since, as an unknown list MSP, nobody knows who she is.

    Of course she would be a list MSP. There is no other way she’d get elected. Talent and personality of a basket.

  34. Big Bill says:

    Could this be Tory lackey wearing a Wings Over Scotland lapel badge?

  35. Dr Jim says:

    It’s Labour, they know who their audience is because they created them along with the media who supports them

    Belt out the most repugnant lie you like, use the media to report it then when its proved to be a lie claim the government is working against the supporters of your party by undermining the truth, but never apologise for the original lie, make up another lie to to increase the hatred of your supporters towards your target and the supporting media will report that giving the appearance that the first lie has gone away

    The first rule of political lying is to keep telling more of them, it’s worked for Union politicians the whole of my lifetime

    Because they know their audience

  36. Gary45% says:

    Jenny Marra is a liar.
    No surprise there.

  37. My post at 26 February, 2019 at 10:09 am
    The word should have read as wouldn’t not would.

    Any way, it seems British nationalist politicians believe that they can behave and say what they like, without there being any consequences.

    Its bad enough when we see them doing what they can to undermine the Scottish Government at every opportunity as well as putting down our country.

    When they then make false allegations against a Dr working in our NHS
    Then its about time there were consequences for these British nationalists like Jenny Marra.

    Maybe people in the Tayside area should be highlighting this smear in letters to the Tory supporting rag the Courier.

  38. Dr Jim says:

    Has no one noticed that England has managed to create themselves a third party who are not a party but are so much more newsworthy than the actual third party who are the SNP who have now all but dissapeared from the English political debate on TV

    Sky news commissioned its own poll of 3,000 people who incidentally all reside in England in order to inform us of how the *UK* feels about the state of our *Nation*, yes I know what you’re going to say but there really is only one *Nation*

    And it’s not us, and no it’s not that they forget about us, it’s that we just don’t count until they tell us we do

    Reports are also coming in that the UK Guv is about to reject the decision of the UN ruling over the Chagos islands and *Carry on regardless*

    Yes, just like the films they made portraying hapless British incompetents bumbling their way through life but waving a Union flag which made Britain Grate, God save the Kween

  39. MaggieC says:

    Does labour have anyone that’s not a liar ??

  40. John Alexander Ferguson says:

    The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.

  41. john boy says:

    Johann Lamont taught her everything she knows.

    Jenny was an excellent pupil in the Lamont School of Lies.

  42. SilverDarling says:

    Jenny Marra will leave that tweet up for ever now. She has successfully sown the seed that Tayside NHS politically compromised, so her job is done.

    The IG is now a presence on all the media platforms available to Government and Opposition. It gives Labour and the Tories 2 or 3 proxy voices each depending on who Marr/ QT / Peston has on.

    Scotland has now been eliminated from any discussions on Brexit or our own future. You can see London BBC saying ‘you have your own channel for that’. Maybe that was the aim all along.

    That Sky Poll is bonkers. They should just have asked ‘who, as an English person, do you hate most?’

  43. john boy says:

    Dr Jim

    They have Scotland and Wales down as regions.

    Sky News State of the Nation poll.

  44. Breeks says:

    John Alexander Ferguson says:
    26 February, 2019 at 11:20 am
    The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.

    Oh John, John, John….. shaking my head.

    James Kelly? Murdo Neverwin Fraser? Ross FondlerThomson? Egg McMurphy? Subway Elmer? Briggs? Kelly again for the double take… Bruiser Carmichael?

    If I can say one good thing about the BritNats, they don’t seem to discriminate when it comes to picking their cretins, gobshites, and bottom feeders.

  45. Effijy says:

    Yet another pack of lies from this woman.

    Her actions and those of her party, Labour,
    Really establishes the incompetence and lack
    Of morality in both parties.

    Even as a teenager my Dad explained why
    You should never jump the gun.

    My making a polite enquiry regarding your suspicions
    Without condemnation, you can gather the full picture
    And see if the facts confirm or deny Guilt without putting
    Egg on your face.

    Marra, you have enough egg on your face
    For a Quiche. You are indeed a right Quiche!

  46. Dr Jim says:

    To qualify an correct my post on the Sky news poll
    they did ask *around* 200 people in Scotland their views

    So that’s clearly representative of our *region* then

    This latest media crap is making me extraordinarily angry today, particularly when they tell me I don’t like the politicians that I and half my country vote for and are the governing party because we bloody DO like them

    Scotland is not like England, sorry England but we’re just not so stop saying we are because you’re just so wrong

  47. handclapping says:

    dakk @1040
    As the person who “designed” the SNP logo, that was not in my mind. Ribbons only became a thing o/a Vietnam’s “Tie a yellow ribbon” which was 10 years later

  48. Giving Goose says:

    I have strongly held beliefs and opinions, like as lot of people.
    I like to express them when given the opportunity.
    But one thing that I don’t do is lie.
    What is the point of telling lies about my opinions and beliefs?
    If I should tell lies about an opinion, then the lie lays bare the inescapable fact that the opinion is weak or incorrect.
    And what is the point in that.

    I’ve been convinced for years that Unionism attracts Sociopaths.
    Here is a definition (below) to reflect on.
    I recognise these traits in most Unionist politicians.
    Unionism is a societal illness that afflicts Scotland.
    It truly is a disease.

    A sociopath is a person who has little to no conscience. They will lie, cheat, steal and manipulate others for their own benefit. They know exactly what they are doing, they just don’t care because they don’t think that way. If you are naive enough, they will brainwash you into doing exactly what they say and what they want which is the only time a sociopath is truly happy.

    Poor Scotland.

  49. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Blame who you will: Public-life today is an unregulated sewer wherein reform seems an impossibility.

  50. grafter says:

    One of the many trying to undermine our objective for independence. Meanwhile down south the destruction of the Labour Party and Corbyn continues unabated under the smokescreen of the Brexit fiasco. Socialism, a redistribution of wealth and political accountability are fast disappearing under this toxic union. If independence is refused again we are all slaves to the 1%.

  51. Effijy says:

    If people like Marra and parties like hers spent a few minutes investigating matters like this themselves, it would save our NHS Trusts from having to waste valuable and expensive time investigation trumped up charges.

    Just like their Unionist Partner Carmichael with French Gate.
    It cost £1,000,000 of public money to nail him as a liar and nothing was done to him as far as his Unionist colleagues were concerned and the fake Parliamentary Standards Commission.

    These people are liars and a liability Scotland can’t afford!

  52. Dr Jim says:

    The SNP logo is a stylised mixture of the Thistle and the Saltire to represent Scotland’s Flag and oor wee jaggy Flooer

  53. robertknight says:

    It used to be the case that the easiest way to tell when a Labour politician was lying was to watch for their lips moving.

    Now we just need to become aware of them having posted a Tweet and the same applies!

  54. Arbroath1320 says:

    Come on now peeps.

    you all know by now, or at least you SHOULD know by now, that this is just another excellent example off oor wee Jenny practising for her future promotion.

    Yes I know everyone is scratching their heads about what future promotion I could possibly be talking about. Well folks there is only ONE possible promotion that fits the bill here and it is to become the next temporary branch office manager … obviously! 😀

    I think we can all at least admit wee Tricky Dicky has gone well passed his sell by date by now … hasn’t he? 🙂

  55. Dr Jim says:

    Aw naw! I want James Kelly

  56. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    The conduct of Marra and her ilk show clearly that they are unable to challenge the SNP on policy.

    The unionist / English partys in Scotland are beaten politically and are forced to lie and spin constantly.

    The question is who votes for these failures?

  57. Hamish100 says:

    Prepare for election!! eehhh EU elections!!

    Tories not fit to govern. Labour not fit to govern

  58. Daisy Walker says:

    o/t re Jeremy Corbyn GE, PV, etc

    Under the fixed term parliament act

    They need a minimum of 25 working days to call a GE. Its now 24 working days to 2/3/19.

    If there’s no time for a GE… I would respectfully suggest there is no time – before 2/3/19 – for a PV.

    Tusk attempted to talk to TM yesterday re extensions (probably in terms of contingency planning at this stage) and got the bums rush.

    Both TM’s deal and No Deal – will lead to significant disruption on essential day to day trades, and both protect the 1% elite from the new tax haven laws.

    I’ve posted some info re Civil Contingencies Act 2004 over on the last thread – the meaning of Emergencies reads like a Brexit to do list. (And/or Tory manifesto).

    Can some bright, interested minds on here have a wee read of the Act (not my notes) and have a wee think about it.

    If the Scottish Parliament is going to invoke some Constitutional Claim, or legal claim for Scotland to stay in EU, or dissolve the Union, or, hold Indy/PV-2, or anything else that has been speculated on… I genuinely cannot see how they will be PHYSICALLY able to do so if the CCA 2004 is invoked, and it is possible that any attempt to do so would be seen/interpreted as a threat to UK Security in itself.

    Have a look folks, see what you think.

  59. Abulhaq says:

    Twitter has been described by dana boyd, lower case preferring, ‘queer’ (her word) researcher with Microsoft as ‘social grooming’. We ought to be wary of any platform that enables grooming.
    Twitter was Islamic State’s medium of choice. Along with other social media platforms certain western national governments need to be less indulgent of their American owners. Cui bono?

  60. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not sure if MSP Jenny Marra is a pathological lair, or whether her deceit is calculated to protect her moral identity, i.e. her British nationalism. I think the later is the most likely, though being a pathological liar does appear to be a character trait of British nationalists.

    Developing the Virtues: Integrating Perspectives
    Moral Self-Identity and the Social-Cognitive Theory of Virtue

    This chapter describes a social-cognitive theory of moral identity. It trades on important themes in ethical theory that emphasize the importance of second-order desires and strong evaluation. After placing moral identity within a historical context of moral development research, and describing Blasi’s pioneering work in reaction to it, the chapter outlines the key elements of the social-cognitive alternative that emphasizes the accessibility and centrality of moral identity within the working self-concept, and the role of situations in activating or deactivating its accessibility. The empirical warrant for this approach is reviewed. A claim is made that social-cognitive moral identity theory is a progressive research program and has implications for current debates about situationism and the stability of moral dispositions.

    Keywords: moral identity, social cognition, personality, schemas, accessibility, situationism

    Social cognitive conceptions of moral identity

    The Interactive Influence of Situations and Moral Identity Centrality

  61. Hamish100 says:

    Major news day. BBC 1 Cuts out the snp raising questions to the PM. On BBC1 Scotland News the main issue? Celtic manager may move to Leicester. Really?

    Professional Journalism and bbc scotland don’t go together.

  62. A. Graham says:

    “John Alexander Ferguson says:
    26 February, 2019 at 11:20 am
    The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.”

    How ridiculous. Shall I list four male politicians and try to deduce that men in politics is not a good thing?

  63. winifred mccartney says:

    Are all these labour msp’s, mp’s etc who wear a red rose breaking the rules in public office as Jenny Marra would suggest.

    The fact that she lied about NHS Tayside boss and only applies standards in public office to others says everything you need to know about labour.

    Jenny Marra failing her pitch for next leader of the branch office – or is lying a pre-requisite for this post.

  64. Morgatron says:

    I see Spunky Hothersall jumped on the bandwagon too. They are really a pathetic bunch of truth blockers and liars. Her previous pish spouting and subsequent outing as a bare faced liar should make her illegible to hold office in any capacity. I think it high time they brought back public stocks as a deterrent for lying.

  65. manandboy says:

    “If we’re heading for a hard Brexit then we’re heading for a united Ireland” | Patrick Kielty

    Whisper it, but another EU referendum is the best way out of this mess, even for the DUP, says comedian Patrick Kielty

    “blutgraetsche commented: “No matter what kind of Brexit happens in the end, even if there will be no Brexit at all, these last few years will have a lasting effect on the collective psyche of Northern Ireland and Scotland. The experience to be forced by Westminster to do something that the majorities of their respective populations did not vote for was and is profound. The UK in its current form is doomed.”

    Right there, the nut is cracked. Like a marriage which died unsurprisingly one day, but lived at the same address for a short while afterwards. The divorce was as inevitable as it was predictable. Such is The Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

  66. Bob Mack says:

    Jenny should remember as should all unionists that the social media of today is right on their heels rather than halfway round the world.

    She insults us the people by thinking we are too stupid to check facts. Wrong Jenny. A lot of people have social media or electronic news these days. Jenny only makes a greater fool of herself and her reputation such as it is by lying deliberately to score a very minor point indeed.

    How could you then trust her with something really important?

  67. mountain shadow says:

    The Marras continue to think that Dundee is their personal family fiefdom despite being comprehensively rejected by Yes city.

    As ever, the truth is only secondary to stirring the shite.

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    More Social Cognitive Theory on moral identity.

    Moral Identity: What Is It, How Does It Develop, and Is It Linked to Moral Action?

    Chapter 8 Moral Identity, Moral Functioning, and the Development of Moral Character

    Integrating moral identity and moral judgment to explain everyday moral behavior: a dual-process model

  69. Vronsky says:

    There is a clear policy from the Brit parties in Scotland of deliberate lying, on the (sadly reasonable) assumption that a proportion of the electorate will believe them. It is working to an extent, but I’m not sure that it’s working well enough to save them.

    It’s all pretty disgusting, but the good news is that they have reduced themselves to such a degree that they now have no other resources. There might be a positive reason to save the Union, but no Unionist is looking for it.

  70. CameronB Brodie says:

    And here’s some Social Ethics of moral identity.

    Moral Identity and Its Links to Ethical Ideology and Civic Engagement

    Harnessing the Power of Moral Identity to Improve Morality

    The Effects of Moral Judgment and Moral Identity on Moral Behavior: An Empirical Examination of the Moral

  71. Breeks says:

    Hamish100 says:
    26 February, 2019 at 1:20 pm
    Major news day. BBC 1 Cuts out the snp raising questions to the PM…..

    Were they censored altogether or were their words spoken by an actor?

  72. Giving Goose says:

    CameronB Brodie

    You hit the nail on the head.

    The debate in Scotland is everything about identity.

    Jenny Marra is British and will use lies to justify and enforce that identity.

    British = lies.

  73. chicmac says:

    Haven’t wheeled this out for some time but this seems an appropriate moment.

    I believe the law of perjury should be extended, in effect if even with a different name, to encompass all statements made by elected representatives on a public forum of any kind, be it broadcasting, press, speeches or social media platforms.

    i.e. the police should have the power to arrest, lay criminal charges against suspected offenders and bring them to court.

    My reasoning is that in the basic interests of justice, it is a criminal offence to lie during testimony in court, for the simple reason that it is the jury who must decide on the verdict and to do so they need to have have access to statements of fact which are actually correct.

    Notwithstanding that proving anyone is actually lying rather than being simply mistaken is no easy task but nowadays, perhaps, is a lot easier with the existence of modern technology (cell phones, emails, social media) than it has been in the past

    In a democracy there is a strong parallel between the election process and a court trial. The scale is of course, different. The ‘jury’ who will give their verdict, is comprised of the entire electorate. Their representatives in ‘court’ are those whom they have chosen by election. The time scale is a bit longer than usual for court cases. Most saliently of all, in terms of the underpinning of justice in society, the election process is even more important than for court cases since those involved may not just thwart justice by lying on any given specific matter, but having exercised their dishonesty with impunity can actually go on to help shape the very laws that the justice system must implement. A double whammy for justice.

    It is about time that the electorate were accorded the same respect as a court jury and that justice itself was protected.

    If nothing else, the threat of potential criminal charges would work wonders on the statements of ‘fact’ uttered by many of our elected representatives on such forums.

  74. geeo says:


    BBC didn’t even wait until Corbyn had finished his response before cutting to Jo Coburn who said..”we will leave the Commons for now, but will return if anything interesting happens”

    All you need to know about the BBC’s political leanings.

  75. Dr Jim says:

    You know those builders who keep promising they’ll turn up and fix it on Tuesday but never do, because, so it’ll be next week hen

    Cowboy builders we call them, what do we call the Tories or Labour then

    Today Theresa May made a statement, if you didn’t see it or hear it it was the same one she’s been making for nearly three years promising a vote next Tuesday

  76. CameronB Brodie says:

    Giving Goose
    I’m not making this stuff up. 🙂

    Recognizing Moral Identity as a Cultural Construct


    Current research on moral identity shows that moral identity predicts moral action in Western cultures but not in non-Western cultures. The present paper argues that this may be due to the fact that the concept of moral identity is culturally biased. In order to remedy this situation, we argue that researchers should broaden their scopes of inquiry by adding a cultural lens to their studies of moral identity. This change is important because although some concept of moral identity likely exists in all cultures, it may function in different ways and at different levels in each place.

    We propose that moral identity is a context-dependent construct tied to varying social and cultural obligations. We argue that Western moral identity stresses an individually oriented morality, whereas, people from Eastern cultures consider a highly moral person to be societally oriented. We conclude by discussing the implications of this view for future research.

    Keywords: identity, culture, Western and Eastern, morality, social context

  77. Daisy Walker says:

    O/t there from Kirsty Hughes Twitter account
    Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon

    ‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’

    What happened to the hard won legal judgement and option to Cancel Brexit? Where has it gone? Why is it no longer mentioned, even by the SNP, as an option?

    Is it because the SNP have no way to get it back on the schedule within WM for MP’s to vote on it? And if so, why are they not shouting it from the roof tops for the other parties/MP’s to get it back on the plate.

    Is this what the SNP at WM is now campaigning for – a different Brexit Deal and an extension to A 50?

    I’m not being flippant, I really want to know. The legal battle to enable a Brexit Cancel was a huge victory… and now its just been quietly dropped, never to be mentioned again.

    And Labour – do I have this right.. if the HoP Vote to Pass TM’s deal, they will insist on a PV to ratify it.

    If HoC does not vote to pass TM’s deal (and they will likely abstain on it)… No Deal is still the default position and re a PV on this set of circumstances…. no pressure from Labour for another PV at all.

    An extension to 1/6/19 is entirely possible, but unless we take part in the May EU elections, and sit in the EU Parliament, after 1/6/19 it cannot be extended without great difficulty, unless UK MEP’s are still contributing within.

  78. orri says:

    There already are laws of “perjury”. It’s libel/slander/defamation.

    In fact those are even stricter as the one making the claims have to prove they told the truth. Being honestly mistaken might mitigate the offence.

    In this case she obviously had an idea of what she was saying. Knows the implications of what a public denouncement are. Has been shown to be wrong. Chooses not remove the offending accusation.

    It may be that even the limited version of parliamentary immunity has gone to the heads of some MSPs who forget it’s limits and feel able to attack private individuals on a public platform.

    OTOH there might be a benefit to this if it prevents public displays of support for either YES or NO in some workplaces come indyref2. So a fine and a bit of humiliation might be seen as worth a risk to disguise which way the wind blows.

  79. call me dave says:

    @Daisy Walker

    The PM mentioned ‘or No Brexit’ in her little list in the News today in HoC.

    So it is still a dot vanishing on the distant horizon.

    New Scottish tv channel to show INDI-REF 2014 in a big programme soon I was hearing. No fear at PQ: That should turn out well 🙁

  80. galamcennalath says:

    Lying, why take the risk? You could be caught out and once branded a liar your credibility is shot forever.

    Either …

    You are a fool and haven’t thought through the likely repercussions.

    … or …

    You believe the gains and benefits outweigh the risks.

    So why is there so much lying in BritNat politics? TBH it has to be a bit of both of the above.

    There are a lot of ignorant and stupid politicians who open their mouths before engaging their brains. However, I also think there are calculating liars. Take the Leave campaign at EURef, basically a string of lies.

    And what of Marra? Ok, not the brightest, but why does she habitually leave her lies in display? I suggest that’s a calculated risk. We see them and call her out, but those lies aren’t aimed as us, are they? The people they are aimed at may believe them so no advantage in deleting them. The longer they stand, the more of the target audience are exposed to them. I think that’s a common approach – if a lie is told with intent to sway a particular group, then the more of that group which see it the better. We, the enemy, those who see the world through different eyes, our opinion doesn’t matter to the liars.

  81. Gullaneno4 says:

    SLAB politicians remind me of west coast deck chair day rental operators patiently waiting for The Waverly to disgorge 900 day trippers excited to be seated on a windy beach for 4 hours.

  82. Stravaiger says:

    @Daisy Walker

    TM has successfully run the clock down so far that No Deal is a virtual certainty. Job done. Quelle surprise.

    As for the rest, I’d just say best not to rule anything out and be prepared for all eventualities.

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    And here’s a biopsychosocial model of health view of moral identity and human behaviour.

    The Bio-Psycho-Social Model Of Human Behavior

    Bio-Psycho Social-Spiritual Model


  84. Cactus says:

    “Let’s all LAUGH at Marra, let’s all laugh at Marra…

    HA-HA-ha-ha, ha-ha-HA-HA” (in the conga)

    Notice Billy Mitchell in the background wearing his TIGger suit.

    Hava Nagila!

  85. defo says:

    Here today, gone the Marra.

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    And here’s a human agency view of moral identity.

    Moral Agency, Identity and Narrative in Moral Development


    Paspupathi and Wainryb’s conception of narrative moral agency is discussed in terms of its contribution to the moral development literature. After noting how the authors position the new construct within the field, and its successful critique of domains, social intuitions and identity, I examine its understanding of both agency and morality, and suggest that the construct cannot dispense with a conception of moral self-identity. I conclude that narrative moral agency will have a generative effect on research and that it represents the leading edge of a new field of moral development that will by necessity be broadly integrative with other domains of developmental and psychological science.

    The Concept of Self-Identity and Moral Conflicts

    Virtue in Organizations: Moral Identity as a Foundation for Moral Agency

  87. Baldeagle58 says:

    O/T I know, but this is why Broadcasting needs to be Devolved to the Scottish Parliament. We don’t need another London based ‘Breakfast show’. Scottish shows being taken off the air so that Smooth and Capital can try to compete with BBC Radio 1 & 2…..

  88. chicmac says:

    Those are not perjury-type laws, they are vehicles for civil action for damages and reputation clearing by the traduced body in pursuit.

    I’m talking about criminal class law against any pertinent statement of ‘fact’ made by the elected representative on a public forum other than parliament which was known by them to be untrue.

    It is not dependent on any alleged victim making the claim but is an infringement of a general criminal law pertaining to elected representatives which the police may pursue themselves or when brought to their attention.

    It is to be hoped that the mere existence of such a possibility would greatly modify the approach to making public pronouncements outwith parliament for many of our elected representatives rather than result in a great many convictions.

    The object, after all, is to improve the level of veracity exercised by those we elect and hence enhance democracy and justice.

    It is also in the elected representatives long term interest, whether they realise it or not, because as things stand, democracy is in crisis mainly because most of the electorate are now in a position where they believe little of what they here from their elected representatives.

  89. ronnie anderson says:

    Its down to SNHS Tayside to protect their employee’s from deliberate smears/ accusations that would impact on that persons ability to do his/her job all the more so when its a Public official Msp making that accusation & further to that persist in that accusation by not removing that accusation from her Twitter feed once its pointed out to her her claims have no basis .

    As i said above in respect of SNHS Tayside , Dr Walker should take this matter head on & take legal action to protect his name & complain to Twitter to have her account removed/suspended.

  90. sinky says:

    As well as publicizing and passing around tomorrow’s The National article on the McCrone Papers it is worth copying this article from The Telegraph published only in England on 14 January !!

    OUR oil is the best bargaining chip the UK has and only way they can save their economy after a disastrous Brexit!!! Now why would they not have published that in Scotland?!

    Click to enlarge.

  91. jfngw says:


    Smooth Radio has been dire since it was taken over by Global, just basically a very restricted playlist with little else. I only listened in the morning because of John McCauley, I’ll probably just delete from my stored channels now.

    Radio is pretty much a desert now, either continuous playing of their small playlist (can I take any more ABBA), or talk shows that want controversy. Just imagine that Jeremy Vine might be the best choice available, yep, radio is that bad.

  92. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Wee reminder that the ‘Friends of Wings’ gathering is on Saturday March 2nd, in Dows Bar, Dundas St, Glasgow (at Queen St station) from 6-ish until closing time, the function room upstairs.

    We are bringing our own (cold) food and Jock Scot (YouChoob) will be DJing. Usual raffle, please bring prizes if you can – if you haven’t already said you’ll be there, please do so via off-topic so we can keep abreast of numbers (currently approx 50 confirmed).

    (There is no wheelchair access for upstairs so we will also be using the main downstairs bar. Some folk are arriving early, so please gather downstairs until the function room is staffed.)

  93. jockmcx says:

    Had the misfortune some years ago to work with a compulsive
    liar.Luckily i was given a nod by the guy whom i replaced
    so i was wary from the start.

    When i called the guy out on one of his tales he would try
    to laugh it off as a misunderstanding.

    These people are dangerouse,i eventually realized lying
    was a way of life to the guy,i mean he would stick a
    little spin into the simplest everyday conversation.

    He was trying to manipulate everybody and every situation
    to his own advantage,eventually when someone higher up
    cottoned on to him he attempted to get that person into
    bother but made an arse of it getting himself sacked and
    was lucky the police were not involved.

    An enlightening experience…so beware they’re not just
    in politics.

  94. Jack Murphy says:

    Getting away from the Marra story for a moment here’s a Good News item this afternoon:

    More school leavers have five Highers.

    BBC Scotland Archived

  95. mr thms says:

    Daisy Walker @ 2:29 pm

    “Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon

    ‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’”

    Should the UK participate in the election of MEPs for the Parliament of the European Union, as a result of a vote to extend Article 50 it would probably have to rely on the votes of the Tory and Labour MPs who resigned.

    I have always thought the Scottish and EU referendums were linked, and therefore the Scotland Act 2016 and EU Withdrawal Act 2018 are linked. That their purpose was to facilitate down the line, the implementation of the Treaty of Lisbon, the re-unification of Ireland, an independent Scotland, special arrangements for London, and the internal enlargement of the European Union.

  96. Sarah says:

    @chicmac re a law against lying by elected councillors/MPs/MSPs.

    Advertisers can only say things that are legal, decent and truthful yet “political lies” e.g. Alastair Carmichael, everything TM or any Brexiteer/ERG person says, is not illegal.

    I agree with you – a law must be passed to change the rules so elected politicians are NOT allowed to get away with lies, deceit and manipulation.

  97. Golfnut says:

    @ Chicmac and Orri.

    I’ve said more than once that the Yes movement should be on the streets with a petition demanding a Judicial review on what charges can be brought against Politicians who lie, mislead, misrepresent with the intention of subverting the constitutional process. It should include the media and civil service.

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    Radio. I only listen during the night when I’m working at my workbench, dance a bit to keep the feet going and legs from seizing up but that’s another story. Anyways, the ads are very repetitive, half are public announcement things like recruiting for the forces, or “I have bills to pay I work all day I have bills to …” by which time I’ve run over to the radio (good for the circulation) and shut the damn thing off. That ad must cause suicides amongst the desperate and should be prosecuted in the intersts of publi order.

    But the “DJ” is pre-recorded on most channels, same stuff time after time. Radio is struggling. The news is mostly SKY news and hevaily London and England-centric, England having won their first two rugby matches by blah blah lost against Wales. And about 3 seconds about Scotland. Hello, Wales beat England, they humped them.

    You get a little Scottish news, very little. And even a few of the ads aren’t really relevant to Scotland.

    Shame for the DJs all the same, vote YES next time.

  99. Dr Jim says:

    How come the brand new BBC Scottish dedicated to Scotland channel is really just BBC2

    Only dedicated sometimes then

  100. Abulhaq says:

    The constitutionalists in the National party have had a long run. Increasingly it is becoming evident that Scottish Unionists will not relax their stranglehold unless significant pressure is brought to bear. Backed by the resources of the British State, Unionism would rather see Scotland a desert within than prosper outside. Past masters at ‘black propaganda’, the Brits have never gone voluntarily.
    Dissing and lying are of course part of that ‘initiative’. Fighting dirty should not be their prerogative alone.

  101. Capella says:

    @ CameronB Brodie – since you’re here – I read the articles you linked to on Tacitus and his ethnography. Whilst it is inevitable that historians look through their own biased cultural lens, I don’t think Tacitus was worse than others. He was, after all, a Roman.

    The H Paul Brown article hunts for examples of anti-semitism in Tacitus. Not surprising considering Rome famously ruled Judea with a rod of iron. But the Romans were equally cruel to everyone else they conquered.

    Ellen O’Gorman is talking to insiders. I’m not familiar with the finer points of historiography so her paper remains a riddle wrapped in an enigma to me.

    The Toswell paper is interesting though focused only on Anglo-Saxon England. he does concede that Tacitus got information from retired generals and merchants to fill out local colour. No one knows whether he personally visited Germania but he could have.

    Again – not directly relevant to us sitting here in Caledonia. Except that it is possible that he spoke to retired generals and merchants from the North Britain campaigns as well. So could have heard about Calgacus and his famous speech from a local source.

    Interesting links for history anoraks.

  102. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    It only broadcasts itself between 7pm and 12 I think it is. I guess it just automatically skips over to BBC2 the rest of the time rather than showing a blank screen or test card!

  103. Liz g says:

    chicmac @ 3.41
    Wouldn’t it be easier to do it the other way round?
    Make lying in Holyrood the action that’s punished.
    That way we get to build trust that doesn’t depend on any media.
    If politicians say something outside Holyrood we can assume it’s just rubbish.
    But if it’s important then we can have them asked about it in Holyrood, where they are as bound to tell the truth as they would be in a Court.
    Although in this instance Marta could say that she was only mistaken… We could also have any Mistake admission in Holyrood Have to be apologised for and corrected on the platform on which it was made!
    This could also be put in place a lot faster than sorting out the media (who are the enabling the lies to do their damage) in Indy Scotland.
    I can’t see any public objection to one of the first things Holyrood does at the point of Indy is to insist on Honesty in our Parliament and define the consequences for being caught lying.

  104. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    orri @ 14:34:

    There already are laws of “perjury”. It’s libel/slander/defamation.

    Indeed there are, though it would be up to the traduced person to institute a civil action (as Stu has over another NorthBritLab dummy). Not everyone has the wherewithal, of course, nor the time & willingness to endure all the necessary bother.

    But Marra puts herself in serious legal jeopardy by maintaining the tweets. It’s one thing to claim an innocent mistake, quite another to continue a blatant lie after an official judgement to the contrary.

    One of these days one of these professional liars will go too far and get a well-merited comeuppance.

  105. Luigi says:

    If that woman is not careful, people in Dundee may start wearing “JM IS A LIAR” badges. 🙂

  106. Chick McGregor says:

    Liz G

    It is the lies outwith parliament which is the main thing which needs to be addressed regarding saving democracy.

    Within parliament, there should and are rules regarding misleading the parliament on matters of fact.

    However, in the interests of democracy, elected members must be able to ask questions and make accusations within the parliament based on nothing more than hearsay or interpretation because often the substantive evidence is not available and without the threat of civil action.

    So pretty much the opposite of your suggestion. Sorry. 🙁

  107. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks for taking the interest. I’m certainly no expert on Tacitus and only really came in to contact with him through the study of ethnography, ideology and their interaction.

    Ethnography and ideology: The politics of cultural representation

    Rhetoric and the Authority of Ethnography “Postmodernism” and the Social Reproduction of Text

    Mapping Conceptual Worlds: Using Interpretive Ethnography to Explore Knowledge-Making in a Professional Community

  108. Dr Jim says:


    So they broadcast the Scottish stuff for 5 hours out of 24 and charge us over 30million quid for calling it the new dedicated Scottish channel

    Mibbees it’s the buttons on my head that won’t fasten right that’s causing my brain to leak out but that doesn’t sound like dedicated or 30million quids worth to me

  109. Dr Jim says:

    Scotland in Union says about the McCrone report the UK couldn’t have stolen Scotlands oil because Scotland wasn’t independent and they didn’t conceal the information they just didn’t release it because it was UK business and UK oil so none of Scotlands business

    Mull that over for a minute

  110. Petra says:

    Jenny Marra contributes greatly to Labour going down the stank. Keep it up Jenny.


    Daisy Walker says at 2:29 pm – ”O/t there from Kirsty Hughes Twitter account. Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon. ‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’ What happened to the hard won legal judgement and option to Cancel Brexit? Where has it gone? Why is it no longer mentioned, even by the SNP, as an option?”…

    Big T has stated, today, that she will put her (lousy) deal to the vote by the 12th March. If that doesn’t get through, fails, MP’s will then be offered 2 separate votes. Firstly on the following day MP’s will get to vote on the No deal Brexit and secondly if that fails MP’s will then get to vote before the 14th March on requesting an extension.

    I would imagine that during the extension period, and it looks as though this is what the majority want, a people’s vote will be held and Big T also stated today that in that case Remain is on the cards (or words to that effect).

    I reckon that’s what Nicola Sturgeon is referring to at her point ‘C’ …. new referendum. She’ll have no idea at this point in time if Big T’s deal will get through, if No deal will be taken off of the table or if Big T will stick to her word re. the people’s vote options (remain?) or not, so can’t include that on her ABC list.

  111. From her much more famous and productive uncle, ‘Michael:-
    “Ma feet micht be big but the insects are safe

    They’ll never get stood on by me”

    “Naeb’dy would notice that I wasnae there
    If I didnae come hame for ma tea…”

    She is the evil New Conservative spawn of Blair and Brown.
    A political failure who is handed a seat on the Red Tory Gravy Train as a ‘List’ MSP.
    First job in Independent Scotland?
    Get rid of the D’Honte corrupt electoral system.
    We have a Chamber half filled with Red Blue and Yellow Tory Nobodies, whose job is to gum up the works by lies, threats and bullying.
    No surprise that it is reported that she married old Brit Nat money, allegedly, but not by me.
    I can’t afford an Island of Lawyers.
    We are champing at the bit now.

  112. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. Scotland in Union. They are British nationalists, so do not value Scotland or it’s culture as being equal to their moral identity.

    Ethnographies of hegemony: Introduction

    The Concept of Cultural Hegemony: Problems and Possibilities

    Critical Ethnographies of Power and Hegemony

  113. K1 says:

    I’ve been enjoying nation radio in the car for a while, 96.3FM, I like that it’s mostly back to back music and the news reports are local to Glasgow and surrounding areas, very Scottish ‘feel’ to it and the news bulletins are short and straightforward, very little of that relentless banter nonsense, in fact never listened to the radio for that last decade or so as I couldn’t stand the exact same formatted pish and same old songs over and over again on repeat cycle, so far with this I’ve no complaints…pity it isn’t Scotland wide though.

  114. Capella says:

    When we turn on the TV, the radio, the internet etc we are flooded with images and narratives from other cultures. Yesterday morning the top BBC online news item was the Oscars. They were clearly hoping that “The Favourite” would win Best Picture and were seriously annoyed that “Green Book” won. British royalty and the Brits deserves to triumph, yes?

    “Roma” missed out because it was a Netflix movie and Hollywood won’t reward a streaming service, or so we are told. Roma is Mexican and a great film IMO.

    But why are we in Scotland being subjected to this Tinsel Town nonsense in the first place?

    Because we have no cultural centre of our own. That space is occupied by the BBC. This pretend new channel will not fill the void.

    The BBC has now signed a deal with Screen Scotland to produce more drama and factual content in Scotland.

    The move means the BBC will commit to delivering three dramas, three comedies and three “high-impact” factual series from Scotland every year.

    Director General Tony Hall announced the deal at the official launch of the BBC Scotland TV channel.

    Why does that not fill me with hope?

  115. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Yup. Pretty shit isn’t it? It’s a con basically, the actual programs can be good but if anyone switches on during the day they get antiques road show.

  116. yesindyref2 says:

    Seems to me “national” i.e. UK TVm is increasingly being flooeded with Yank voices, even the ads. So while the UK is attempting to indoctriante Scotland into “British nation”, it’s also getting ready for being the 51st state.

  117. Heart of Galloway says:

    Peston’s take on May latest ‘pirouette’ to hand MPs a vote after March 12.

    He rightly suggests this apparent volte-face is all about May manipulating dissent within Tory ranks for her own ends – and that the extreme Brexiteers are likely to be the winners.

    What he doesn’t say is that May’s contortions have one primary aim – to thwart and break Scotland’s independence movement and bind our country fast inside her precious union.

  118. john boy says:

    Clyde 2 is another BritNat orientated radio station.

    There news bulletins are like reading straight off of a Scottish Labour leaflet about SNP Bad bullshit.

    The trick is to turn the news bulletins off before they start, then turn back a couple of minutes later.

    The Yoons have their grubby fingers in every newsroom in Scotland.

  119. yesindyref2 says:

    Won’t be long before MacDonalds will be advertising their Ken MacTucky Chicken Burgers for the authentic taste of American chlorinated finger-bleaching chicken, ken.

    You wan that to go buddy?

  120. john boy says:

    Sky News just called Scotland, Wales and N Ireland regions.

    They lumped us in with the regions of England.


  121. Hamish100 says:

    john boy says:
    26 February, 2019 at 6:02 pm
    Clyde 2 is another BritNat orientated radio station.

    If you dont use it their advertisers will reduce

  122. john boy says:

    If MPs vote to fuck up Brexit then be prepared for the EDL and all the rest of the right wing nutters to dawn their yellow jackets and take to the streets.

    They will have similar riots to those we have saw in Paris.

  123. john boy says:


    I like the music and don’t listen to their BritNat news bulletins.

  124. Breeks says:

    mr thms says:
    26 February, 2019 at 4:11 pm
    Daisy Walker @ 2:29 pm

    …..Should the UK participate in the election of MEPs for the Parliament of the European Union, as a result of a vote to extend Article 50 it would probably have to rely on the votes of the Tory and Labour MPs who resigned.

    I just don’t see it. I cannot see the EU allowing the UK to participate in EU elections, firstly because the UK is on the brink of leaving, but even more so because it provides the far right Brexiteer types with exposure and a platform to agitate disruption and disorder with European business and stability. Ask yourself the simple question… who do you expect the Little Englanders would vote in as MEP’s? Sincere Europhiles who want to engage constructively? Or foul mouthed disruptive rude boys like Farage and Johnson?

    Extending Article 50 is not the UK’s prerogative. It’s not even the EU’s collective prerogative. It is the sovereign prerogative of each and every individual EU state, and a single sovereign veto from one of them is all it will take for the lights to go out on March 29th.

    By all means listen to the dialogue, be constructive, speculate to your hearts content, but don’t take your eye off the ball. The Article 50 deadline is an explicit unambiguous default protocol defined in the Lisbon Treaty. The two year timeframe for Article 50 negotiations formally expires, with or without agreement, and the cut off kicks in.

    Even to change that protocol will require the same agreement between individual member states, each with the same right of veto. Do you see anybody in Europe currently drawing up formal proposals to be distributed amongst EU governments with a view to making a ad hoc exception to the Lisbon Treaty?

    31 days, 4 hours…. It’s actually the only red line there is. It’s written down in a ratified Treaty, and extant.

  125. sandy says:

    Oh, oh. john boy on the loose.

    Take heed, lad, three strikes & your out. Hammer will fall.

  126. Essexexile says:

    May doesn’t need to kick the can any further. She’s almost there. Today’s exercise was all about pretending there could be an extension. There won’t be, and it wouldn’t make any difference if there was.
    Nicola will wait for the WM votes at least but she could fire the starting pistol now. We are in the zone.

  127. Lenny Hartley says:

    Scottish nine , aint watched it and dont intend too, on misreporting Scotland tonight, a plug for the Scottish nine and the presenter says they would be look8ng at the tensions of the Tiny state of Kashmir! Eh,? by area its more than double the size of England and has a population of 12.5 million, bigger than many European Nations, typical MSM ignorance and lies.

  128. Thepnr says:

    An extension to Article 50 is a certainty, no ifs no buts.

  129. Fergus Green says:

    Euro elections in May 2019, assuming we are still in the EU, are difficult to predict. Historically, voter turnout at these elections has been low, to the benefit of UKIP and other fringe groups who are capable of getting their vote out. That’s why Coburn sneaked in in Scotland, on a tiny fraction of the proportional representation vote.

    How about we make an actual effort this time and get the SNP or Green vote out in force? It may be temporary or short-lived but then again, it may be otherwise. A strong pro-Indy vote from Scotland would be a powerful statement.

  130. Fergus Green says:

    Thepnr 7.01

    Indeed, an extension to Article 50 now looks inevitable and I would predict an extension to the extension.

    All this makes the timing if Indy Ref 2 as complex as ever and this underpins the wisdom displayed by Nicola in not calling it until there is clarity over Brexit. What is the point in showing your hand and then giving WM the opportunity to pull the rug out from under you?

  131. Thepnr says:

    @Fergus Green

    “A strong pro-Indy vote from Scotland would be a powerful statement.”

    Agreed, as Ian Blackford made clear to the PM today she would be best selecting candidates for the EU elections just as the SNP are doing. Why? There is every chance the the UK will be taking part in those elections.

    If we do then we must support the SNP by getting the vote out and getting all supporters of Independence up for this. It will send a powerful megasea to both Westminster and the EU if we can maximise our vote and win as many seats as we can.

  132. @chicmac,

    Perjury is not ,in itself, an offence,

    Andy Coulson was proven to have lied in court in the Tommy Sheridan case, but the judge (David Spencer Burns, Lord Burns ) ruled that the lie had no bearing on the outcome of the trial,

    so,it is not against the law to lie under oath unless the judge decides it is against the law,

    the law in Scotland is as corrupt as the media.

  133. CameronB Brodie says:

    The law is normatively biased, it defends the culture that it originates from. This is a global reality that New Natural Law aims to resolve.

  134. Lenny Hartley says:

    Thenpr, There is no certainty that the EU27 will agree to an extension , yes the UK can ask for a short extension up until the end of June , there is no guarantee it will be agreed by all EU27 countries.

  135. Brendan Rogers is to make a £25 million for Tierney and MacGregor!

    Well, I can type sensational shit like the Brit Nat Liars.
    BBC Scotland reporting Scotland free of ‘balance’ now that they have launched the Broadcaster’s equivalent ot he hopelessly underfunded National, headlined with the NHS/SNP shite, with big roly poly Miles Briggs and his Red Tory Collaborator Monica Lennon ‘starring’ tearing into the Bad SNP.
    70,000 patients were not seen within waiting time targets in a year, and it was pigeon droppings and contaminated water that killed the babies, according to BBC Britland’s voiceover.
    Glenn Campbell’s still now outside WM and NO Deal apparently would see Scotland’s economy dip by 8% over 15 years, and that’s all.
    No 100,000 losing their jobs on BBC Pacific Quay.
    Jackie Bird get smarmier and More cooing by the day.
    Will any viewer watch BBC Jockland?
    Why would we?
    Steven Gerrard opens a packet of crisps! The real news that sell ‘papers and FTP tee shirts.
    Christ, we are on the threshold of chaos and Jackie Bird insults our NHS staff with nonsense figures and half facts.

  136. robbo says:

    Regarding EU elections. I’ve been back here 20 years and never ever had any leaflets forms or voting lit through my door- fact.. Do you have to be in the lodge to get any info? How else did a rat like Coburn get elected?

  137. Petra says:

    @ Dr Jim says at 5:18 pm – ”Yesindyref2 – So they broadcast the Scottish stuff for 5 hours out of 24 and charge us over 30million quid for calling it the new dedicated Scottish channel. Mibbees it’s the buttons on my head that won’t fasten right that’s causing my brain to leak out but that doesn’t sound like dedicated or 30million quids worth to me.”

    There was a really interesting 3 page article in the Sunday National about this new channel Dr Jim. Just about everyone who made comment reckoned that £32 million (£19 million of that new money) was a ridiculous amount of money and with that alone was bound to fail.

    Donalda MacKinnon of course said it was adequate, however that Debate Night, unlike Question Time, won’t travel around the country but rather will be based in Edinburgh due to budgetary restraints.”

    ”Half of the new channel will be dedicated to new programmes – the rest will be repeats.”

    Some comments stood out for me such as, ”a 2009 study by the Scottish Broadcasting Commission established by Alex Salmond estimated that a distinct channel would need around £75million.”

    David Hutchison, Prof in Media Policy at Cale Uni, stated that ”a new channel, not a BBC channel, would cost £70 million plus. Even £70 million would impose limits on what could be done, especially with drama. So what’s odd here is that the budget is just over £30 million.”

    Neil Blane, Prof Emeritus at Stirling Uni said, ”in the Irish Republic you have 5/6 television stations located in Dublin – with a lot of collateral economic spin off…. There’s a lot of very good Scottish-originated programming people don’t know is Scottish. We have cultural talent all over the country, it’s inconceivable this could fail with the right budget. My fear is that people don’t understand this isn’t a level playing field.”

    Brenda O’Hara SNP MP and Former TV Producer stated, – ”It’s also great to see my hugely respected, former STV colleague Martin Geissler back working in Scotland. And the return of the excellent James Cook certainly augurs well for the standard of news journalism on the new channel…. and ..

    ”From my own experience of twenty years working in television production, I just cannot see how a channel can produce quality television with an annual (non-news) programme making budget of £23million (news programme £7 million). By my reckoning the average hourly spend contributed by the BBC for the new channel will be around £25,000….. ”To put that figure in perspective, on the last series I made for the BBC One at Pacific Quay, my spend was £220,000 an hour … and that was ten years ago…

    ”When the Director General appeared in front of the Select Committee, I told him bluntly that I believed that this new channel was born to fail (due to inadequate funding). I sincerely hope I’m proved wrong.”

  138. robbo says:

    Jack collatin says:
    26 February, 2019 at 7:36 pm
    Brendan Rogers is to make a £25 million for Tierney and MacGregor!

    Aye that wull be rite Jack!

    Considering the shite that goes for that consistently down there in their ceespit

    It’ll will need to be 50 mil alone for Tierney or they can fuck off!

  139. Thepnr says:

    @Lenny Hartley

    You’re right of course in that the UK needs the agreement of the EU 27 for an extension. However I’m guessing that Donald Tusk doesn’t see much problem in getting when yesterday he said seeking an extension would be the “rational” thing to do.:

    “There is no majority in the House of Commons to approve a deal. We will face an alternative: a chaotic Brexit, or extension.”

    Donald Tusk: article 50 extension would be a ‘rational solution’ – video

  140. john boy says:


    Who are you fuckin talkin to?


  141. Fergus Green says:

    @Thepnr 7.17
    Realistically SNP or SNP/Green can only win 3 out of 6 seats under PR, but the powerful message would be in the size of the vote. Every vote for the pro-Indy parties can be seen as as a vote for Scotland and for Europe.

  142. john boy says:

    Too many wee generals.

  143. galamcennalath says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland in Union. They are British nationalists, so do not value Scotland or it’s culture as being equal to their moral identity.

    Yup. They genuinely just don’t identify with Scotland as a nation and country. Certainly not their nation and nationality. To them it’s just a region of their imagined makey-up country. They literally see Scotland in the same way as they see Yorkshire, and often say so!

    The aspect which puzzles me is what is their ‘country’? For me, I see folks with an affinity to a Greater England. There never was a Union, a confederation with a small ‘c, it’s a myth.

  144. Dr Jim says:

    Ma tether’s chokin me

  145. Iain mhor says:

    @Bob Mack 10:01am

    Wheesht about the secret lizard beings, ye’ll wake @kangaroo up!

  146. galamcennalath says:

    Thepnr says:

    EU elections …. we must support the SNP by getting the vote out and getting all supporters of Independence up for this.

    If we get that far, then we need a big turnout and pro Indy MEPs.

    Another scenario is an EURef2. It is possible a HoC majority could be reached for May’s WA if there is an amendment enabling a referendum. The assumption seems to be that Remain would win, but in a fight between May’s ‘deal’ and Remain, I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of effort has been put into selling the WA as soft, when it is in fact blind.

    England’s electorate could vote for May’s ‘deal’ and Scotland vote Remain. That Scottish decision needs to be rock solid.

    And a third less likely (IMO) possibility is a GE.

    In all of these possibilities we need a high turn out and solid indisputable statement of the will of the Scottish people.

  147. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I have a dfferent take on May’s “pirouette”, which I see as a little bit of calculated flummery to keep her party from fragmenting further while relentlessly taking us another step closer to the brink. Which of course has been her basic strategy all along.

    The aim being to avoid any extension by convincing the Tory (and Labour) Leaver radicals that any extension makes a (for them) hated PV and an eventual Remain turnaround ever more likely, so they had better choose her “deal” instead.

    It’s no longer the former attempt to arm-twist the EU27 into a better deal, because that ploy never had a snowball in hell’s chance. Her latest manoevre instead ups the ante for those holding out for a “pure” no-deal leave.

    And the more that popular support grows within the UK for a PV, the more pressure that gives her on the “no-dealers”.

    I’m inclined to believe that when the chips are down in mid-March, in the face of the available choices, sufficient of the ConLab rebels will cave, and May will have her way.

    We had better be prepared.

  148. Petra says:

    I totally agree with you Thepnr. There will be an extension and Junker himself has said, just last week, that NO ONE in Europe would oppose an extension to the Brexit talks. I would imagine that if anyone knows what’s going on in the EU it’s him. The last thing that anyone needs right now is a No Deal Brexit and that includes EU countries taking into account that the EU is facing MANY challenges. It’s not exactly hunky dory over there right now either.

  149. John Alexander Ferguson says:

    Breeks, I know it is hard to tell these days, but your list is all guys. Numpties yes but women no. I suppose being the advanced age I am, I expect a higher standard from women. It’s what I was used to.

  150. Daisy

    quote from T May today :
    Mrs May said an extension “cannot take no deal off the table”, adding: “The only way to do that is to revoke Article 50, which I shall not do, or agree a deal.”

    Also read a tweet of Robert Peston saying….

    … Gavin Shuker told me that he and Chuka Umunna and others MPs still in the Labour Party made an offer to the PM after she lost the meaningful Brexit vote in January that they would support her in office for at least a year and vote for her Brexit deal if she pledged to put that deal to the people in a referendum.
    Apparently the de facto deputy PM David Lidington and the chancellor Philip
    Hammond seemed warmer to this idea than the PM.
    But Heidi Allen, one of the Tory defectors, told me – only half jokingly – that the 11 MPs in The Independence Group would offer their own confidence and supply arrangement to the PM, to replace the semi-estranged 10 Northern Ireland MPs of the DUP and allow her to govern, if she went for just that plan to put her Brexit proposal to the people.
    And by the way the PM can trust The Independence Group to keep her in office. Because, as Allen confirmed, the last thing they want is an election in the next year – because they are a million miles from being a proper party with policies and an institutional structure.

  151. galamcennalath says:

    Just thinking … well, getting depressed really,

    With Scotland’s proportionally greater agriculture and food industries and our exports, we will be hit particularly badly by a hard Brexit. And ‘no deal’ would be a dreadful disaster.

    This could be like the Thatcher Era deindustrialisation, the Major Era recession, and the Blair/Brown Era banking crisis ALL AT ONCE.

    Even those of us who experienced each it turn cannot really can’t get our heads round the scale of the impending carnage. Up to 10% knocked off Scotland’s economy.

    We need to get into the life boat!

  152. Tacitus was 27 years old when the battle of Mons Graupius happened,

    The General at Mons Graupius ,Agricola, would have been 43,

    Agricola`s daughter married Tacitus,

    apart from talking to the general of the Roman army at Mons Graupius, Tacitus would also have first hand accounts from many of the soldiers that were actually involved in the fighting,

    he would have been ridiculed by soldiers that were there if he had made the whole thing up or embellished it too much,

    Caledonia had a highly sophisticated culture before the Romans turned up,

    Calgacus was right about the Romans,

    they made a desert and called it peace.

  153. yesindyref2 says:

    @Jack Collatin:

    Jackie Bird get smarmier and More cooing by the day.
    Will any viewer watch BBC Jockland?
    Why would we?

    Your answer is in your first sentence – no Jackie Bird!

    (if you mean the new channel)

  154. Lenny Hartley says:

    Scot Finlatson, imho there never was a battle at or called Mons Graupias, it was/is fake news.
    Despite extensive research over a long period nobody has every found a battle site never mind the remains of 10,000 defeated Caledonians.

  155. Hamish100 says:

    From the Herald
    “RICHARD Leonard has said he would prefer a Labour Brexit to a second referendum with Remain on the ballot, despite 62 per cent of Scots voting to stay in the EU. ”

    Yip we can rely on Labour to self harm at any opportunity. Problem is they also want Scotland to be harmed as they do not care. England’s needs comes first and last

  156. mr thms says:

    Re the very low budget for the new BBC Scotland channel. While the amount allocated is just £32 million per year. The chances of broadcasting being devolved and/or independence in the near future are very good. It would mean all of the tv licence fee raised in Scotland will be spent in Scotland.

  157. john boy says:

    It’s a dugs breakfast.

  158. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lenny Hartley says: 26 February, 2019 at 8:52 pm:

    ” … Despite extensive research over a long period nobody has every found a battle site never mind the remains of 10,000 defeated Caledonians.”

    And there you have the truth of the matter – it was/is fake news and the BBC weren’t even invented in those days.

  159. @Lenny Hartley,

    are you saying Tacitus made the whole battle/speech up when there would have been many living witnesses that could easily denounce and embarrass Agricola,

    as for not finding the battlefield,they do not know where the battlefield for Boudica`s eventual defeat was,

    did that also not happen `cause they couldn`t find the battlefield,

    they do not know the exact location of the battle of Bannockburn,

    did that also not happen `cause they couldn`t find the battlefield.

    Hastings exact battlefield nobody knows.

  160. Lenny Hartley says:

    Scot Finlayson, you believe your faery stories if you want too, do you believe in talking snakes by any chance ?

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the cultural hegemony Westminster is attempting to foist on Scotland. Here’s some Philosophical Realism and International Relations Theory on the subject.


    Ideology, Hegemony, Discourse:
    A Critical Review of Theories of Knowledge and Power

    Understanding “Hegemony” in International Relations Theories

  162. Capella says:

    Mons Graupius is thought to be Bennachie. The state of Scottish archaeology is as partial as Scottish history. You won’t find remains unless you actually look.

  163. mr thms says:

    #galamcennalath @ 8:38pm

    “With Scotland’s proportionally greater agriculture and food industries and our exports, we will be hit particularly badly by a hard Brexit. And ‘no deal’ would be a dreadful disaster.”

    I have read that under the Treaty of Lisbon the UK would not be able to negotiate special arrangements for Scotland, Northern Ireland or London. Strange as it may seem, it makes sense for the UK to leave the EU without a deal and have a ‘framework’ for the current set up and then negotiate for special arrangements for the devolved governments and England.

  164. Thepnr says:

    The absolute mess that both Theresa may and Jeremy Corbyn have gotten themselves in over Brexit is laughable but much worse it is utterly pathetic.

    These two, the Prime Minister and leader of the opposition have totally neglected their duty of putting the well being of the electorate and businesses in the UK first and instead chosen the narrow minded interests of small segments of their individual parties.

    Here’s the mental part, if May’s deal or some version of it cannot be approved in Westminster and their is no stomach for No deal then where does that leave them?

    May herself has said it many time, her deal, no deal or no Brexit. I think she’s right and since the first two are looking more and more unlikely then you’re only left with no Brexit.

    There is nowhere else to go that I can see so that can only come about under two scenario. Westminster revoke article 50 or remain win a second referendum.

    What other options are there after ruling out no deal and May’s deal?

  165. Petra says:

    I used to like the Shetland programme, good storyline / seemed to me to be boosting tourism, but following the first episode of this 2019 series I said to my husband if ever there was a programme that would put you off of visiting Shetland this must be it. It’s all about people trafficking in Shetland and tonight they’ve moved on to Glasgow. Run down scenes, rooms full of trafficked people, big problem in Shetland / Glasgow / Scotland and so on. Maybe I’m becoming paranoid? Timing handy or what?

  166. jfngw says:

    Interesting to see the leader of British Labour in Scotland has stated that effectively Scotland should just do as it is told by England. England voted to leave so our vote is irrelevant.

    This is what you get when you have a parties financed by another country in your parliament. What other country would allow this.

  167. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Capella at 9:23 pm.

    You typed,
    “Mons Graupius is thought to be Bennachie. The state of Scottish archaeology is as partial as Scottish history. You won’t find remains unless you actually look.”

    This is from Wikipedia (I know!)

    “Battle location

    Considerable debate and analysis has been conducted regarding the battle location, with the locus of most of these sites spanning Perthshire to north of the River Dee, all in the northeast of Scotland.[10]
    A number of authors have reckoned the battle to have occurred in the Grampian Mounth within sight of the North Sea. In particular, Roy,[11] Surenne,[12] Watt,[13] Hogan[14] and others have advanced notions that the high ground of the battle may have been Kempstone Hill, Megray Hill or other knolls near the Raedykes Roman Camp.

    These sites in Aberdeenshire fit the historical descriptions of Tacitus and have also yielded archaeological finds related to Roman presence. In addition these points of high ground are proximate to the Elsick Mounth, an ancient trackway used by Romans and Caledonians for military manoeuvres.[14] Bennachie in Aberdeenshire, the Gask Ridge not far from Perth and Sutherland have also been suggested.[15][16][17] “

    Now, given that the Romans had little success north of the Antonine Wall (9th Legion?), is it not surprising that the Romans could have won in battle in Aberdeenshire, hundreds of miles from their power base?

  168. Capella says:

    @ BDTT – thx – interesting range of possibilities. Now all we need to do is get the spades out!

    I don’t think it unlikely that the Romans fought a long way from their main bases. They used ships to transport troops and supplies. They certainly navigated the Tay and called in at Dundee! Moray Firth too.

    There are a line of Roman fort remains all the way up to Inverness. But they couldn’t hold these outposts. They hated deeply forested areas, like Caledonia. Unlike the British, they just couldn’t cut down the trees fast enough! Although I do believe reading that they felled a massive number of trees.

    I can’t be bothered to search out all these references ATM so just relying on memory here. May do so later.

  169. Wee Alex says:

    Sky News interviewing politicians about voting to take no deal off the table.

    They are oblivious to the reality .

    No deal is the default, they can vote against it but if there is not a deal then all that is left is no deal.

    I despair !!!!!!

  170. TD says:

    Thepnr at 9.31 pm

    “What other options are there after ruling out no deal and May’s deal?”

    I can think of a few:

    1. May’s deal with amendments to the NI backstop gets through parliament – the so-called Brady amendment.
    2. The UK government asks for and the EU agrees to an extension to Article 50. There is a whole raft of follow on options for this one.
    3. Westminster votes to hold another referendum. If Remain win, the whole thing just goes away. If Leave win, then expect a no deal Brexit.

    I could go on – there are many more options and sub-options. Each one seems very unlikely, as do May’s deal, no deal and no Brexit. But some option which is currently seen as unlikely will happen. The problem is we don’t know which one. No doubt when matters are resolved, the punditry will all be saying “That’s what I thought would happen all along.” Personally, I’m not making predictions – I’ve been caught out too often in recent times, so I’m keeping my own counsel.

  171. Liz g says:

    Petra @ 9.47
    Just as an FYI … I haven’t got around to watching Shetland Yet!
    May or may not mean anything:-)
    The star of the show is “very “ one of us!!!
    Jist sayin…

  172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Hamish100 @ 20:55,

    There you go. Union sockpuppet reveals their thinking, free from the constraints of threats of defection from the cringe division. Labour paymasters want Brexit, not a PV or any other kind of “backsliding”.

    Thepnr @ 21:31,

    The plain fact is that there is no HoC majority for PV, let alone Remain, not now and not later. But there is a potential majority for May’s deal if she can rally sufficient of her dissenters and some Lab collaborators. And from recent votes in HoC, there clearly are a bunch of the latter.

    The threat of eleventh-hour Brexit capitulation is real, and is clearly what May is still banking on.

  173. Legerwood says:

    Petra @ 9.47 PM

    The Shetland TV series is only loosely based on the books by Ann Cleeves which were great and did have a fairly high body count. The TV series, even the current one, will not put people off visiting Shetland. Any location that features prominently in a TV series or film boosts Tourism.

    The current series is about people trafficking which is certainly very much in the news. Given the nature of the subject you would expect scenes in run-down locations but there have also been just as many scenes of fairly up-market locations in both Shetland and, in tonight’s episode, Glasgow.

    There were scenes in up-market restaurants/cafes and the scenes in the Kelvingrove Art Gallery certainly showed it to advantage.

    Therefore on the whole it wont stop people going to Shetland or Glasgow. I can certainly recommend Shetland. We went there on holiday last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

  174. Petra says:

    BBC News: Three Commons votes – 12th March Big T’s deal – if it doesn’t get through a vote on No Deal on the 13th – if that’s kicked out a vote on A50 extension on the 14th.

  175. john boy says:

    Wee Alex 10.18pm

    Exactly Alex,,,that is what I have been saying.

    They are playing with fire in trying to reverse the result of the Referendum.

  176. mumsyhugs says:

    Aye Petra – Douglas Henshall is very much one of us – and I saw him very neatly putting Good Morning Britain presenters in their place when they talked about the “Shetlands” rather than Shetland – nae ‘s’ as the islanders wouldn’t like that one little bit. He also, when asked, commented he would support independence until Scotland gets the government it voted for! Btw he’s also moved back to Glasgow from London 🙂

  177. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    john boy @ 22:32,

    We see you, BritNat-Leaver false flag artist.

  178. Cubby says:

    STV News at Six tonight.

    In their report on Education in Scotland they manage to report that there is too much extra work for teachers collecting data etc for management information purposes but also then report that there is no information on how curriculum for excellence is performing. Too much time collecting data but at the same time there is no data.

    So there you have it a double decker dose of Scotgov/SNP bad – well done STV – trying hard to keep up with BBC levels of SNP baaaad.

  179. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 26 February, 2019 at 10:43 pm:
    ” … john boy @ 22:32,
    We see you, BritNat-Leaver false flag artist.”

    Just think a wee bit, Robert. The style of this person’s comments is, to say the least, a wee puckle familiar. Now I wonder who it is it reminds me of?

  180. Liz g says:

    Here’s the thing I’ve been wondering!!
    IF Westminster do go for an agreed extension to article 50..
    Will this extension include the right to cancel article 50 as an automatic part of the extension?
    Or will the right to cancel have to be tested in court again!

  181. geeo says:

    Petra says:

    26 February, 2019 at 10:32 pm

    BBC News: Three Commons votes – 12th March Big T’s deal – if it doesn’t get through a vote on No Deal on the 13th – if that’s kicked out a vote on A50 extension on the 14th.

    Obvious issue there, is that an extension to A.50 is not within treeza’s gift.

    A cynic may say that this is treeza trying to waste another 2 weeks, without anyone on her case, then hey presto, EU says no extension and treeza blames EU 27 again.

  182. john boy says:

    Robert Sutherland

    What the fuck is a BritNat leaver false flag.

    I fuckin despair at some of the paranoia that hangs around Wings.


  183. Ken Clark says:

    @ Petra, 9:47

    Hi, Petra. I wouldn’t be too concerned about the bleakness of the current Shetland episodes.

    I’m a fan too, mostly because of it’s location, but it seems to be a much copied storyline at present. The Nordic Noir series have covered these issues, including Wallander. And who can forget the first series of France’s Spiral?

    The Missing offshoot, Baptiste is equally bleak and God knows what the current Stranded storyline will do for Icelandic tourism.

    Typically, the BBC jumped on the bandwagon. Safe and conservative as usual. You can imagine the meeting. “We need our own Nordic Noir.” “What about Shetland?” “It’s bleak and distant and they wear woollen jumpers.” The only surprise is that subtitles haven’t been added as standard.

    Great timing for Ann Cleeves and a bit of respite from Oxford, London, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

    As for Jenny Marra, her poisonous attitude doesn’t surprise me. It’s embarrassing watching her antics at Holyrood, especially the expression she wears at FMQ’s. Constantly swallowing or spitting bile isn’t a good look. 😉

  184. geeo says:


    I wondered the same about that point, as the judgement only seems to be concerning the ability to cancel unilaterally without penalty before and up until brexit day.

  185. CameronB Brodie says:

    IMHO, the Prime-minister is guilty of majoritarian abuse of constitutional power. If Westminster does not reassert it’s assumed soveriegnty, Britain is heading towards dictatorship.


  186. john boy says:

    There are some on here who have too much time on their hands.

    As I have said,,, MPs are in danger of stirring up some serious civil unrest.

    If they try to alter the result of the referendum.

    That is not being controversial,,,that is just stating a fact

  187. TD says:

    Liz g at 10:50

    If Article 50 is extended, the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50 during the extension period just as they can before March 29. This was made clear in the European court ruling.

  188. Liz g says:

    Robert J Sutherland @ 10.43
    Aye we saw him as we saw jezza.
    They just can’t stay away,we seem to fascinate them!

    I’ve often wondered do stupid people know they’re stupid?
    Tis a puzzle!

  189. john boy says:

    It is in the interest of Scottish Independence to have a fucked up No Deal hard Brexit.

    We don’t want the can kicked down the road any longer.

  190. Liz g says:

    HE @ 10.59
    Thanks TD,I had been speed reading through the information around the judgement and couldn’t remember seeing anything about it including the extension…

  191. Liz g says:

    Sorry TD it keeps changing you name

  192. CameronB Brodie says:

    john boy
    Scotland doesn’t want any form of Brexit. Got that?

  193. Liz g says:

    John boy @ 11.01
    That’s not what Nicola says, have you told her of your theory?

  194. Liz g says:

    Hey Cameron 🙂

  195. @Robert Peffers,

    They have not found the exact battlefield of Bannockburn,

    by your logic it did not happen,


  196. Liz g says:

    geeo @ 10.55
    Presumably you’ve read TD @ 10 59’s answer?
    I was reassured,but now I’m seeing you have the same concerns
    I’m worried all over again.
    I spent the whole time during the debate in Westminster waiting for someone to ask!!!
    Hopefully we will get some one who will link to the right information???

  197. Battle of the Teutoburg Forest,

    described by Tacitus,

    they don`t know the exact location,

    didn`t happen ?

  198. Battle of Agincourt,

    The location of the battle is not precisely fixed in contemporary accounts,

    Most authors believe it was fought in the narrow strip of open land formed between the woods of Tramecourt and Azincourt (close to the modern village of Azincourt),

    However, the lack of archaeological evidence at this traditional site has led to suggestions it was fought to the west of Azincourt,

    they don`t know,

    didn`t happen ?

  199. Bobp says:

    Jfngw 9.53pm. No other country would allow politicians representing another countrys parties, to run their own country down. Any nation that had a modicum of respect for itself would run these carpetbaggers out of town.

  200. Jeff says:

    Agricola got the bombastic welcome home to Rome, which only happened if the army had defeated the enemy in battle?
    So there was a battle….

  201. Famous15 says:

    Now here is the Unionist Tory imperative: whatever the Brexit outcome make damned sure there is no red hand of Tory to blame so the SNP must be blamed .THE SNP MUST BE BLAMED. So the quiz question is: “Which subscriber to the Wings website is making damned sure the SNP will get the blame?”

    Answers on a postcard,please.

    For the rest of us who really do wish for independence,most of us will trust Nicola’s timing.I am glad it is not my decision as the toxic Tories are making it very difficult.

  202. TD says:

    Liz g

    See paragraph headed “When could the UK revoke”

  203. Petra says:

    @ mumsyhugs / Liz …. Thanks for the info on Douglas Henshall. One of us? “One of us.” Sounds nice doesn’t it. Great stuff.


    @ Legerwood at 10:28pm … “2019 Shetland programme.”

    Thanks for your thoughts on this Legerwood. I understand that the programmes have been loosely based on Ann Cleeves books, but as far as I can make out this 2019 series isn’t. And if it isn’t? Why not? Maybe I’m missing something here and have got this wrong? I’ll search a little more when I have the time.

    As to the current programme itself I checked online to see if I’m alone in thinking that the storyline is fairly incredulous. Seems not. An International people trafficking ring operating on a remote island of around 22,000 people right under the nose of the Police? A car travelling along a road in the middle of nowhere doesn’t notice a car sitting in a lay-by from a mile off, etc, etc? I’ve travelled (and lived in the Outer Hebrides) all over every inhabitable island in Scotland and if there is one thing I’ve learned is that there’s not much goes on that the folks don’t know about. And as one example last year my husband and I had a problem with our very large motorhome at the supermarket in Barra which was undergoing ground works. Nearly ripped the undercarriage off. We travelled from island to island by ferry (loads of motorhomes everywhere) and when we boarded the ferry for Harris one of the employees said, “and you’ll be the folks who had the problem at the Co-op in Barra”, lol. News fairly gets around, eh?

    And yes they showed upmarket areas of Glasgow but to my mind they couldn’t cancel out the overall picture / storyline of drugs, prostitution, people trafficking and very seedy places and imo if I didn’t know better, was a tourist, it would put me right off. Have second thoughts.

    I also think it’s just the latest in a way of scaring the wits out of Scots who don’t want to see a rise in immigration. Another is the Asian wedding series on the new BBC channel. And when the time comes, Indyref2, they’ll make a meal out of Nicola Sturgeon promoting immigration. I’ll accept that I could be wrong of course.

  204. Hamish100 says:

    johnny boy agent provocateur’s are easy to spot

  205. Effijy says:

    The Wee Crook Marra.

    The wee crook Marra sat on a tree,
    A wee crook Mara sat on a tree,
    A wee crook sparra sat on a tree
    Chirpin awa as blithe as could be.

    Alang came the truth wi’a bow and an arra,
    Alang came the truth wi’a bow and an arra,

    The truth said: ‘I’ll get ye, ya wee crook Marra’
    The truth wi’ the arra let fly at wee Jenny Marra,
    The truth wi’ the arra let fly at wee Jenny Marra,

    Unionist media said it just disnae Matta
    The Unionist media said it just disnae Matta
    Her lies and deceit on oor pages won’t splatter.

    Jenny the Quiney is as mad as a Hatter!

  206. john boy says:

    Believe me,,,,,the more fucked up Brexit is, the higher the Indy vote .

    And at the end of the day that us our goal,,,independence.

  207. john boy says:

    What happened to Treeza’s “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal”?

  208. Liz g says:

    TD @ 11.45
    Aw thanks again TD… One worry ticked off the list..
    Isn’t it awful that ye can’t trust her Government,not to be manipulating bastards…
    I really wondered if we were missing a trick today by not asking about it!!
    I’m glad one of us is on the ball..
    Thanks again 🙂

  209. Colin Alexander says:

    So, according to Craig Murray, the UK Govt have announced in Parliament, that they reject the (advisory) ICJ ruling on the Chagos Island.

    What was it about Scotland taking it to the ICJ about the UK Govt ignoring the “right” to hold indyref2 as self-determination and the UK will just fold?

    Want to think again about that assumption?

    Not that it matters anyway, Corbyn has delivered the SNP a get out of jail card with his late conversion to a People’s Vote. Corbyn’s move is all about the splits in Labour and that affecting his ability to win a GE. He needs time to rebuild. A People’s Vote charade would give him that time.

    The SNP have been praying for any excuse not to call an indyref that they never wanted and haven’t prepared for, Having decided to “know their place”, accept Smith’s crumbs and bend the knee at the House of Lords if it gets them more devolution powers.

    So back to business as usual. Scotland treated as a de facto colony of the English Crown. The SNP administer the colony for the English Crown and get to tinker at the edges with their pocket money allowance. Come 2021 they’ll obligingly swear another oath of allegiance to the Queen of England and her heirs of the English Crown.

    The Scottish NHS / Health Boards continue to be more secretive and unaccountable (and we know what that leads to) than their English counterparts and any SNP politician/ SNP member or pro-independence supporter that tries to expose this for the public good is ignored, bullied or called a Unionist.

    At least we’re still in the EU, for now.

  210. Liz g says:

    John boy @ 12.03
    But we don’t believe you John boy..
    We believe Nicola..

  211. Liz g says:

    Colin Alexander @ 12.12
    Trying to push every button at once comes across as desperation Colin.
    Please go back to the drip drip tactic..
    We need a challenge,to stymie the boredom till Nicola’s ready… Ta..

  212. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 22:49,

    Aye, RP, had the same feelin’ masel’. More than once.

    Liz g @ 23:00,

    That’s their inescapable dilemma right there.

    And the more verbal diarrhoea, the quicker they give themselves away!

  213. CameronB Brodie says:

    John boy
    The Brexit vote was compromised by criminal electioneering and anti-democratic media bias. No form of Brexit benefits either England or Scotland. It might consolidate support for indy but a right-wing dictatorship and economic basket case as our neighbour, will not help Scotland one bit. I want Scottish independence as much as anyone, but not at any cost. You appear to be a bit more reckless though. Why is that?

  214. Liz g says:

    Petra @ 11.46
    Also…. In Outlander.
    His character,a,totally TV invention… was a massive hit with the book reading fans, ( who can be a bit snippy about any deviation from the books) and this was because of his performance.He is a fantastic actor,and I am so looking forward to binging on Shetland,mainly because of him!!

  215. Liz g says:

    Robert J Sutherland @ 12.29
    Do ye think they know how much fun we have over them on the nights out?
    I mean we don’t cross the line here, but when we’re all together… well it’s hilarious 🙂
    We have some really funny mimics among us!

  216. Colin Alexander says:

    Liz g

    Naw ta. You can tell people about the power of the UN and ICJ to free Scotland when the UK Govt says no to the SNP’s indyref policy.

    Gies aw a laugh.

    Nite nite.

  217. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s Jizz and Fizz time!

  218. Liz g says:

    Colin Alexander @ 12.39
    I’ve never said such a thing Colin…
    What on earth makes you think I did?

  219. Petra says:

    @ Geeo at 10:51pm ….. “Extension not within Treeza’s gift.”

    Juncker has already said, as recently as last week, that the EU 27 would agree to an extension. Now whether that refers to a continuation of talks relating to Treeza’s doleful going round and round the garden deal or rather another EURef or GE is anyone’s guess Geeo. What is clear is that the last thing that the EU needs right now is a No Deal Brexit too and they’ll have realised by now that the Westminster crew are not just inept but crazy enough to go through with it: To totally destroy a country and its people over the long term to save face in the short term.


    @ Ken Clark at 10:53pm …. “Shetland.”

    Thanks for your response Ken and yes I can see their “need”, maybe, for a “Scottish Woollen Jumper Noir.” Maybe I’m suffering from paranoia, lol. Time will tell. Anyway once again thanks for the reminder of the other “noirs” and the wee laugh that you gave me about the BBC meeting with no doubt, IMO, Rupert, Marmaduke and Tarquin all sitting round the table trying to figure out what life on a Scottish island is like.

  220. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 12.44
    Aw not tae worry.
    There’s probably two of them looking over every post I ever made ( and some of them are quite long 🙂 ) now..
    To try to find some line or two to fling at me,in the desperate hope I’d care…
    I know,I know,but I wiz bored and they sound desperate..
    I’ll give them an hour!!

  221. chicmac says:

    Petra and Liz G
    Sam Heughan, the star of outlander, is ‘one of us’ as well as indeed are most Scottish actors.

    This from 2014

  222. sandy says:

    Colin Alexander @ 12.39 am

    Don’t you realise the reason for the existence of the UN & the ICJ.

    Trade is carried out by mutual agreement. Should England/WM ostracise itself in the eyes of the world, what would be the outcome? It’s not the most popular place & never was, in this universe, so it has to watch its step.

    Is there anything unique to England that cannot be obtained or manufactured elsewhere?

    Even arrogance.

  223. yesindyref2 says:

    @Liz g
    It’s a social service, and with Westminster austerity biting us all in the bahookie, it’s up to us to show some sympathy and give them a leg up, or at least a foot up, to help them on their way.

  224. Petra says:

    @ Liz at 12:33am ….

    Outlander? Brilliant. Douglas Henshall supports Independence. Great. Now more to the point what about Sam Heughan? Just wish he was supporting me, lol. Binging in Shetland? Better to keep the heid and look out for the people traffickers Liz. You wouldnae want to wake up with a hangover to find yourself transported to Mayfair. Now would you?

  225. Dr Jim says:

    There’s an old video circulating on Twitter showing McCrone basically saying the oil report wasn’t a secret it was just not made public and now the oil price is lousy so tough for you Scotland

    This video is being circulated by British Nationalists who think it’s hilariously funny that the UK squandered oil revenues on junk and they think that proves that Scotland can’t be Independent

    What these mug British Nationalists don’t seem to realise is, in behaving in the very fashion they are over this they actually make the case for Independence even stronger by admitting they’re laughing at Scotland from a position of hatred and scorn (in their minds)

    Oil or no oil is not the point of Independence and never was, if we’ve got it, fine, if we don’t, fine, just keep opening your mouths like that and tell Scotland what you think of us and every time you do, like an angel getting their wings another person signs up and joins the SNP

  226. CameronB Brodie says:

    Wensleydale cheese? 🙂

  227. Petra says:

    @ chicmac at 1:03am ….. “Sam Heughan.”

    “One of us.” Thanks for that chicmac. Just made my day. Night? Early morning? Time for bed and a wee read methinks.

  228. Liz g says:

    Petra @ 1.06
    I’ve a feeling Mayfare would throw me back Petra 🙂 jist a feeling mind,cause I can’t think why..LOL

    Yesindyref2 @ 1.06
    Well yes, tis a kindness right enough,or at least that’s where I’m coming from they’re more to be pitied than blamed.
    What must it be like to go to trouble of registering to post here time after time,all the while trying to keep the IP address hidden from the Rev!!! Then ye canny keep it together long enough to last any length of time!
    So sad…..and… So bloody funny too.. 🙂 but sad … also funny…. But sad… But!!!
    chicmac @ 1.03
    Yes… Sam Heughan too… also a great actor…
    Who needs the BBC to develop talent.. We grow our own 🙂

  229. yesindyref2 says:

    @Liz g
    It’s got to be said though, in fairness, Fizz is a way better operator than the other one, you could call him a Smooth Operator in comparison. But still, you could say “Sad-eh?”.

  230. Liz g says:

    Oh Petra..
    One of the finest scenes in Outlander…

    Sam Heughan……… Jamie Fraser
    Douglas Hernshall… Mc Quarrie
    Backdrop…………. Scotland
    ….. Mary Queen of Scots…….

    The whole thing said Scotland…
    How often do we ever get that?

  231. sandy says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 1.16am.

    Bound to be some other Wensley on the world. Cheese not too hard to make.

  232. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 1.44
    Ah Fizz just lasted a wee bit longer is all…
    Kept it together somewhat in a light conversation for a time.
    But when he handed the baggage over, he was was clearly smarting from the spanking of the previous evening…
    So the boay couldnay cope wi the pressure and exposed himself too soon!
    There’s nothing much we can say other than..

  233. Liz g says:

    Oh and my dad feelings are just as strong as your’s 🙂

  234. geeo says:


    I was under the impression that an extension to Article 50 would be granted without the need for an EU 27 vote, as long as it is for a GE or another EU referendum.

    An extension just for the hell of it, in particular more can kicking, would require a 27-0 majority decision or it would not be granted.

    Junker may say it would be possible in the latter scenario, but frankly, it is not in his gift either, as just ONE vote against it, means no more time allowed.

    I believe Treeza is banking on wasting more time (until 12th march) and the EU saying no to an extension (as i do not believe she will hold a GE nor a ‘peoples vote’) and hey presto, no deal exit is just over 2 weeks away with no realistic way of stopping it.

    As i said, colour me cynical.

  235. twathater says:

    Chicmac 2.09pm I totally agree with you , I have been saying this for years , it is the UTTER and total CONTEMPT they have for the electorate that really angers me

    Look at the LIAR carmichael and the £1 million pounds it cost for the investigation into his lying , that doesn’t even include the cost of his trial , and yet the barsteward is still sitting in the midden wastemonster being given 78,000 grand a year

    As for marra I would really like to see that doctor taking her to court for defamation and spurious allegations possibly likely to affect his employment , what she did is simply petty childish vindictiveness which she has also chosen to have done previously

    As I have said on many occasions , when we reassert our self determination by dissolving this RANCID union I want a system that PUNISHES these lying fraudsters , I want honesty and integrity in the governance of Scotland I want these people held to account , I want ALL politicians to swear a declaration of truthfulness to the people of Scotland and anyone not willing to do so , Take a Hike

  236. yesindyref2 says:

    News of the Crone report in The National seems to have Unionists in a right tizz.

    What do you get if you rattle Unionist agitators?

    Nuts on the loose and Spanner bolts.

  237. twathater says:

    Albuhac 4.49pm a great poster line

    UNIONISM Unionism would rather see Scotland a desert within than prosper outside WITH self Determination

  238. Liz g says:

    Chicmac @ 2.09
    I almost forgot to respond to you… Sorry I had to go out earlier on..
    Your not wrong,there are already mechanisms in place to deal with lying in Parliament… I agree..
    And that it’s the lying on media platforms that’s the problem.. Again nae argument there..
    My proposal ( probably badly put ) was to move the redress of lying in the media from whatever oversight that currently exists for the media to the actual Parliament.

    Lie in the media… Fine no one wants to restrict the media,go ahead..

    But an MSP should…. Always be taking the risk that any lies in the media will be brought up in Holyrood.

    In a Holyrood with real teeth to deal with this..

    Who is to judge…
    This is where I jump on board with what Citizen Juries are, and what they can do for us..

    There should be a jury of citizens in the chamber at all time’s.
    They could choose if a member needs to apologise,be punished or be gone…
    Everyone else just needs to make sure that anything that they think are lies gets brought up in the Parliament..

    Being a small country,it wouldn’t take very long for everyone to have served and … what better way to have served than to have kept the Parliament honest?

    If we want to stop our representatives lying then IMHO the Parliament is the place to do it..
    We no longer could or should depend on the media to hold them to account… We need to do it for ourselves.

    That a democracy depends on a free press,is,I think,a press invention and a bit of a cop out..
    If we want the politicians to behave,we need to take charge of making them

  239. yesindyref2 says:

    Unionists are to launch their own version of The National called “The Notional”.

    Yeah, I invented that and there’s probably a joke there somewhere, but I don’t get it.

  240. twathater says:

    RJS 8.06PM I agree Robert I think that IS the ploy , panic the tories red and blue if they don’t vote for treezas deal then there may not be a brexshit

  241. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 3.00
    My you’re in a funny mood tonight..
    Finding your inner comedian.. 🙂

  242. yesindyref2 says:

    From The National:

    IMPORTANT: We are lowering the paywall on our site for our coverage of the McCrone Report today. We believe it is vitally important that everybody can access it.

    Spread the good word 🙂

  243. Nana says:


    DARK MONEY: Questions remain over Tory links to the Constitutional Research Council & its part in a dodgy £425K donation to the DUP’s Brexit campaign.

    May ignores calls for a section 50 extension. She claims there is a deal within her grasp.
    Corbyn u-turns 180 deg, and claims he’d call a second ref. with remain as option 2., if no article 50 extension.
    Scotland continues to power up for a future of huge energy exports with mega batteries and pumped hydro storage planned.

  244. Nana says:

    Remember how our oil can save a Brexit England

    The Scottish ‘problem’ and how to convince Scots that the oil was worthless? Click on bold links at bottom.

    Battle over naming of new streets near Culloden Battlefield

  245. Nana says:

    RockRose Energy and Marathon Oil agree £107m Shetland deal

    Dexeu has published No-Deal analysis “UK economy would be 6.3-9% smaller in the long term in a no deal scenario (after around 15 years) than it otherwise would have been when compared with today’s arrangements, assuming no action is taken”

    Will not archive

  246. Nana says:

    May’s Article 50 extension is a trick to take us to the real cliff edge

    Watching Theresa May play pool over the weekend I was reminded of a meal I shared with her, which left me in a state of existential despair

    Interviewing Jolyon Maugham

  247. Robert Louis says:

    Just a few years ago, I never thought I’d see a Scottish newspaper attack the blatantly biased BBC and highlight the duplicity of Westminster against Scotland, like The National is doing.

    If you do nothing else today, buy a copy of The National, not only to ensure you and others can see just how twisted the unionist parties have been in their actions against Scotland, but also to show support for this newspaper.

    What I find very interesting is the response from the assorted unionists. Their responses range from complete denial of actual FACTS, to mere insults when confronted with the truly mendacious nature of unionist rule from England. It is like they simply cannot believe that London would ever do such a thing, yet history shows they have done the same kinds of things throughout history, over and over again.

    In any other country around the world, senior lying unionist politicians and those who have cheated Scots of their wealth would be in prison by now. The value of Scottish oil was wilfully hidden from Scots, over and over again by both the Labour and Tory party. To this day, they are still doing it. In london they talk of the importance of the oil to the economy, but according to the likes of the lying BBC and unionists in Scotland it is utterly valueless.

    WE could have been as wealthy as Norway. It is that freaking simple. Scotland has been cheated of its wealth, whilst at the same time being branded ‘subsidy junkies’ by the self same liars in London.

    If for no other reason, THIS alone is reason enough to end the union with England. It has never been of use to Scotland, it has only ever been about stealing Scotland’s wealth and resources for the betterment of London.

    To any unionists still not convinced, especially those in Labour, below is the live link to the value of the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund (their OIL fund). Norway’s oil was used to build a better Norway. Scotland’s oil was stolen by London. Look at that live value, and weep. Then you will understand why Scotland doesn’t just want independence, but NEEDS independence and an end to being ruled by these cursed mendacious thieves in Westminster.

    And to make it easier for you, 1 pound = 11.35 Nowegian Krone.

  248. Robert Louis says:

    And another point about the oil. People might not understand how they got away with such lies about Scotland’s oil, but the reason is simple. In 1975, their was no google, no internet, no pro indy news websites, where facts could be checked. The only sources of information were the liars at the BBC, and the unionist newspapers. If you wanted to check anything said in parliament back then, you had to actually read a physical printed copy of Hansard – and it was expensive to buy. So accessing such information was almost impossible. Even if you wanted to read a parliament bill or act of parliament, you had to actually BUY a physical printed copy.

    That is how they got away with this for so long.

  249. Breeks says:

    Liz g says:
    26 February, 2019 at 10:50 pm
    Here’s the thing I’ve been wondering!!
    IF Westminster do go for an agreed extension to article 50..
    Will this extension include the right to cancel article 50 as an automatic part of the extension?
    Or will the right to cancel have to be tested in court again!

    Good question, because it’s uncharted territory without precedent.

    That is why I believe the EU will adhere to agreed protocols. There will not be an extension of Article 50 unless the UK requests one, and if it does request one, the EU might be sympathetic, but I suspect only for a short stay of execution until May’s EU Elections, subject of course to the EU 27 agreeing.

    Without recognition or Legal Personality, Scotland isn’t a “player” in this, but as with all Brexit Negotiations, we remain shut outside listening at the keyhole.

    When time runs out on Article 50, either the axe falls as specified by the Lisbon Treaty, or the EU adopts a newer protocol agreed and ratified by all 27 member states. It will not take a step in the dark and enter a phase of negotiations which is void, indeterminate and open ended, and unregulated by any protocol. When it says it will not renegotiate May’s Withdrawal Agreement, it makes Brexit appear all the more binary… No deal or May’s Withdrawal Agreement.

    It might well be the EU 27 are indeed primed and briefed to be ready for such an extension, I don’t know. But from my remote perspective, I see an EU far more verbal and animated about preparing their Nations for a hard cliff edge Brexit, rather than an ad hoc indeterminate extension.

    30 days left to find out, yet some people expect a 2 year deferral of Brexit to emerge??? Well, fair enough, it’s not like Brexit has been a process typified from the start by deluded expectations and denial of facts and evidence…. oh.

    March 29th will see Brexit occur, or an alternative initiative which somehow supersedes the settled protocols Lisbon Treaty and the Withdrawal Agreement which took over two years to negotiate. That little diamond solution has 30 days to reveal itself.

    Curious side issue… Are we to assume this is the same Lisbon Treaty which put Scotland in a straight jacket over joining the EU as a Continuer State or exiting and reapplying as a new State, since these were the only options detailed in Articles 48 and 49 of the Lisbon Treaty. Well? You can’t have it both ways. If you maintain Scotland couldn’t argue and negotiate a third way to actually remain as an EU member without actually leaving ar all, then how can either Westminster or Michel Barnier simply talk their way around Article 50 in the same Lisbon Treaty?

    Seems to me the lines are being deliberately blurred about what we know and what we deny.

  250. Robert Louis says:

    Here is just one wee snippet from the McRone report on Scotland’s oil wealth;

    “It must be concluded therefore that large revenues and balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds.”

  251. john boy says:

    As I have repeatedly said, the best outcome for Scottish Independence is a hard No Deal Brexit on 29th March.

    This will concentrate the minds of your average Scottish punter who has no real interest in politics.

    It will be their awakening.

  252. john boy says:

    And a No Deal is actually the lawful default position of the Westminster Parliament.

    Any other outcome goes against the result of the EU referendum.

    MPs should not have the power to reverse this.

    If they do then they alone are responsible for any public protests that follow in England.

  253. defo says:

    Shared your Venezuela false flag over on Craig Murrays blog.
    Good stuff.
    Thanks again for your valuable work.

  254. Dorothy Devine says:

    Morning Nana , the false flag video is utterly shocking .

    I liked the Dumfries and Galloway open letter and the response btl.

    I look forward to the various tory responses from that neck of the woods – a long wait I hear you say.

  255. Breeks says:

    OT… seeing clips from Venezuela of “Green Helmets” adopting a remarkably similar roll for themselves as Syria’s White Helmets. Same stage managed “news footage” appearing too…

    Wonder when Scotland can expect the arrival American/Israeli/UK backed Orange Helmets “protecting” Scotland’s oil for the good of the “free” world…

    Hug me Europe! Mama! Mama! …

  256. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links Nana. One of the most interesting, and big brother scary, is the news that the DWP are developing a tool to enable them to delve into people’s medical records. Once again you have to ask yourself why the BBC / STV are not informing people about this. This combined with their plans to totally privatise the NHS must be, IMO, the most convincing reason / s for supporting Independence.


    Brexiteer Ratcliffe who has moved his headquarters to Monaco to avoid paying tax in the UK is investing a £billion in Ineos / the Scottish oil industry. Shame that no one has told him that we don’t seem to have any oil left.


    BBC and STV getting together to produce the answer to Netflix and wait for it it’s being called ….. “BRITBOX.”


    Help us to get our Independence by supporting the NATIONAL folks. The McCrone rip off story is being published today. Buy a copy of the newspaper and if you can afford to buy another to pass onto someone else.

  257. Petra says:

    BritNats not happy about the National informing the Scots about the coverup of Scotland’s wealth just as the BBB isn’t happy about them exposing their bias.

  258. Breeks says:

    Petra says:
    27 February, 2019 at 8:16 am

    BBC and STV getting together to produce the answer to Netflix and wait for it it’s being called ….. “BRITBOX.”

    That’s a typo. I’m sure BritBox is spelled with a “P”.

  259. Footsoldier says:

    BBC Scotland website headline summary on today’s Scottish newspapers “May’s humiliation and Rodgers gone”.

    Not a single word anywhere on the oil story on the BBC website. Wonder of call Kaye will feature iot.

    Text 80295 and tell them to feature it today.

  260. Breeks says:

    Petra says:
    27 February, 2019 at 8:25 am
    BritNats not happy about the National informing the Scots about the coverup of Scotland’s wealth just as the BBB isn’t happy about them exposing their bias…

    Yeah, No to a second referendum McCrone Report. There’s no demand for it…

    …. said the Occupier.

  261. I jokingly announce that Leicester are making a £25 million bid for Teirney and MacGregor to illustrtate that anybody can publish outrageous lies that then become ‘news’. See my post above.
    Today I am awarded ‘Rumour Mill’ status as the Dead Tree Scrolls repeat the lie, to fill their pointless pages with garbage for their knuckledraggers.
    Lest we be in any doubt; any form of Brexit, good, bad, or indifferent is contrary to the will of the Scottish People, and as such is the trigger for a second Independence Referendum, in accordance with the SNP and Green Manifesto pledges to offer such a plebiscite if Scotland is threatened with being dragged out of the EU by English votes Down There.
    So, Indyref 2 is coming, regardless, and very soon now, not in some future la la la land vision of politicians of any hue or nationality.
    We are Ready, now.
    In a matter of weeks We shall be under House Arrest barred from Europe by the English Homeland Border ‘Forces’.
    Up with that we shall not put, surely?
    On the Mc Crone Report, why is Sir Ian Wood the only Scottish Oil Billionaire?
    Who are on the Boards of the Big Oil Companies sucking our oilfields dry for nothing?

  262. Footsoldier says:

    McCrone Report in the The National – I’m not on Facebook but may I suggest if you are, that you bombard Call Kaye Facebook page with questions on why they are not featuring the McCrone report which is Scottish news, topical and important.

    Also this should be discussed in the first Debate on Nine tonight.

  263. yesindyref2 says:

    “BritBox” ia a great name, remarkably close to “Bollox” which is what it would become popularly known as, and not just by Indy supporters.

  264. Abulhaq says:

    Way back then Scotland might have been an oil state in the Norway or Gulf State model or it might have been a Venezuela or Algeria. We’ll never know. Oil is no longer the golden bonanza. We have abundant potential for clean renewable energy. The way forward is there. We must develop that and become leaders in the field. Scotland needs modern, hi-tech infrastructural ideas and initiatives.
    Scotland might have been super rich? Scotland might have been another London full of speculators and money launderers and other dregs of globalization.
    Do be careful what you wish for.

  265. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh dear, Alberto Costa might be sacked as PPS to Mundell because of his rebel amendment about expats. We’ll sadly miss him! Or not as the case may be.

  266. manandboy says:

    “Decrypting the prime minister’s motives is generally a waste of time. Cabinet ministers who have worked closely with May for years say they have no access to the private realm of her calculations. Senior officials doubt that there is a hidden strategic intelligence behind the eyes and describe her simply surviving each day as it comes. May has a fanatical devotion to the idea of fulfilling her duty, but that could mean avoiding national disaster or honouring the pledge to end EU membership on the date and on the terms that have been promised. The two imperatives pull in opposite directions.

  267. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Abulhaq at 9.16

    The point is the cover up and the lies,Abulhaq.
    I have always been aware that the oil is a very mixed blessing.
    Scotland may well have been rich but it is also the major reason why the UK has always furiously resisted our independence.

  268. admiral says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    27 February, 2019 at 9:23 am
    Oh dear, Alberto Costa might be sacked as PPS to Mundell because of his rebel amendment about expats. We’ll sadly miss him! Or not as the case may be.

    It’s funny how with some Tories immigration isn’t an issue when it affects their own families (Javid the same) but is a major crisis when the immigrants aren’t family.

  269. john boy says:

    Message to England from the EU:-

    FFS leave!!!

  270. Iain 2 says:

    Apparently there is as much oil left in Scottish waters as has already been taken out, we will have to just have to live with the curse of oil.

  271. orri says:

    A delay suits May as we approach the deadline when A50 can be unilaterally rescinded. At this stage a second referendum might be pointless.

    A theory of mine which might be true is that the reason the Troubles went on as long and finally ended when the USSR collapsed and Libya went down followed by 9/11 is that the aim of those backing the IRA etc wasn’t to win.

    It’s aim, from the point of view of Cold War tactics, was to ensnarl the UK in a never ending conflict and also engineer social attitudes that would lend to belligerence in it’s international relationships.

    Brexit might be seen as a similar attack with the uncertainty damaging not only the UK but the EU whilst it continues.

    Much as I’d like Brexit cancelled the only way to guarantee doing so is if the EU permit an extension on the basis of a 2nd referendum or it’s done before March 29th. The only other way would be an extension for a GE with parties standing on a cancel Brexit platform winning

    If I was any of the other EU nations I’d be considering shooting the severely lamed horse that’s the UK to put it out of it’s misery.

  272. Lenny Hartley says:

    Breeks there was a German EU MP on tv saying that he expected that an extension to 1 july possible, thats the date new administration will start in EU,

  273. mr thms says:

    Theresa May’s deal is the one with a ‘transitional arrangement’. The’No deal’ scenario would come with a ‘legislative framework, since all devolved powers the EU has responsibility for will be returning to Scotland.

    Article 50 has five parts. We have reached the part that involves applying for an extension.

    The parts that follow are interesting since it involves ‘rejoining’ the EU.

    Seems to me the UK wants to take part in the elections for the EU parliament.

    Now why would that be?

  274. john boy says:

    If an extension is granted to Brexit until the end of June, would Nicola call for an Indy Ref in September???

  275. Robert Peffers says:

    @Scot Finlayson says: 26 February, 2019 at 11:12 pm:

    ” … They have not found the exact battlefield of Bannockburn,
    by your logic it did not happen,

    That’s false logic, Scot. Finding the exact location is not the point of the question. The question is not where did it exactly take place. The question is did it happen at all.

    There were very many survivors of Bannockburn, including King Robert himself. There were wounded survivors who died from their wounds and were buried and their deaths recorded. Not only that but there are records from both the winning and losing combatants and the ongoing results show the many affects of the battle of Bannockburn.

    So there you go – the question is, “Did the battle of Mons Graupius”, actually happen. It is not, “Where did the Battle of Mons Graupius”, take place.

    Yet you offer evidence the exact location of another battle is unknown as proof that Mons Graupius happened and have the temerity to yell Pish! Get real – if you must debate then use logical argument.

  276. Robert Peffers says:

    @Scot Finlayson says: 26 February, 2019 at 11:32 pm:

    ” … Battle of Agincourt,
    The location of the battle is not precisely fixed in contemporary accounts,”

    Err! Scot, The question was, ” Did the battle happen”, it was not, “Where did the battle happen”. You can thus quote as many battles with unknown location as you can find but it will not answer the question that was asked.

  277. geeo says:

    Ever wondered what the Uk would look like if it was a map of Remain ?

    No wonder non-Scots MP’s are “i voted remain but now back leaving”

    Fear of a leave voter backlash.

  278. Legerwood says:

    Petra @ 11.46 pm

    @ Legerwood at 10:28pm … “2019 Shetland programme.”

    “”Thanks for your thoughts on this Legerwood. I understand that the programmes have been loosely based on Ann Cleeves books, but as far as I can make out this 2019 series isn’t. “”

    Petra, None of the series of Shetland to date have been closely based on Ann Cleeve’s books including this recent series. They have introduced new characters – Tosh – and relationships as well as plot lines.

    They involve the police, criminals and crime so what else are they going to do but take you to dark places?

    As to no one noticing a car parked in a layby, that happens in any crime drama wherever it is set. It is a dramatic device to move the plot along and as such barely credible no matter where it is set.

    I think you are reading far too much into the whole thing.

    The location of a work of fiction, whether sunny or dark, does not put people off visiting the place where it is set because people are well able to distinguish between the action in the foreground and the scenery in the background and it is the scenery in the background that attracts them.

  279. geeo says:

    Oh look, the new ‘independent group’ at WM have had an amendment selected for tonights vote.

    What a surprise huh ?

  280. Capella says:

    @ Robert Peffers – we have the record of the battle of Mons Graupius written by Tacitus who was married to the daughter of the Roman general who fought in it. Tacitus is also known to have consulted retired generals and merchants about historical events.

    We have no reason to suppose Mons Graupius didn’t happen. We may doubt it was the roaring success for the Romans that Tacitus suggests. The fact that the Romans retreated from Scotland suggests that the defence of the natives was too much for the Romans, just as in Germania. Heavily forested mountainous terrain and natives using guerilla tactics was probably as effective then as it is now.

    So the question of where the site of Mons Graupius is remains of interest to some of us.

  281. yesindyref2 says:

    The first part of MacCrone is basically about Scotland’s onshore economy, and expenditure which showed a greater spend per capita than average for the UK, back in the 70s and before that. This is the part that anyone arguing is most likely to pick on “You and all this it’s oor oil”.

    For this it’s neccessary to understand the Barnett formula which is NOT designed to give Scotland more money than a per capita share as most people believe, but in fact a formula to share increased revenue from year to year ON a per capita basis, adding it to the previous year’s block grant.

    The long-term effect of Barnett, and its purpose, is to equalise the spending in Scotland on a per capita basis, with the rest of the UK. Adding in poor information about growth in population – Scotland didn’t grow back then whereas the rest of the UK did, it was by design going to REDUCE the extra spend in Scotland.

    What happened though is “Barnett bypass”, such as we’ve seen with Northern Ireland and the DUP, and this did have the effect of keeping up largely, Scotland’s extra spend per capita.

    On top of that we need to explain that now Scotland does have some taxation devolved, spending in Scotland actually helps our revenues via Income Tax and half of VAT, and also adds figures to the purely illustrative GERS. So spending “on behalf of Scotland” but spent outside Scotland is a drain on our economy, not a bonus, as it gives back no tax nor VAT (nor of course NI or corporation tax on profits).

    Rooughly speaking nowadays, our onshore revenues are at about 99% of the UK as a whole – basically the same. Then add oil, whether in revenues or oil fund and better handling.

    The Oil update to MacCrone is of course purely a weapon in our hands, something the Unionists can only counter with “Oil is worthless” (no, Brent crude is at $67 per barrel and expected to go up to $75 over the next few months). Also that there’s not much revenue, but that is a Westminster policy, our Independent Government’s policy could be different. We can also issue licences more effectively and beneficially.

  282. mike cassidy says:

    Just a wee reminder of something I posted before.

    The meaning of john boy

    A description of someone you have met in the past who satisfies at least one (but mostly a lot more) of the following criteria: … an eejit, a twat, a fascist, a dildo, a member of UKIP, the BNP or the EDL, Gok Wan, a smackhead, a knobend, anyone called Tarquin …

    Have a nice day!

  283. Capella says:

    If academia was interested in researching Scottish history and archaeology as thoroughly as in other spheres we might already have the answers to these questions. As it is, much of the research is left to amateurs. Neil Oliver could spend some useful time compensating for this deficit. But I suspect he has no interest.

  284. Dr Jim says:

    Yoons be all Ha Ha Ha oil’s no use everything’s going to be electric cars now Ha Ha

    We be all Ha Ha Ha the rest of the world will still be using oil for fuel and fabrication of plastics for the next 50 years and if they want to buy some of it we’ve got it, oil companies aren’t investing billions in it because they think it’s finished with

    The entire world won’t be driving plug in Teslas and Nissan leafs and powering their armies on batteries and flying electric airyplanes anytime soon, they’ll be using oil for quite a wee whiley like it or not

  285. mike cassidy says:

    Before the broadcast of Shetland series 4, main writer, David Kane.

    Now that we have a longer format for Shetland we can’t use the books as source material, as we’d need to change so much it would not do them justice (and probably upset the fans of the novels) so it is better to create new stories while maintaining the essence of Ann’s books and characters.

    He also said this in an earlier interview.

    … the advice I give to other people is remember it’s just television! You can get very caught up in it, you know? Keep some perspective!

  286. Capella says:

    @ Dr Jim – practically everything in our modern world is made from oil such as plastics in electronic devices, chemicals, fertilisers, pesticides etc. Might be worth creating a list.

  287. Abulhaq says:

    Get the cover up but that does not come as a surprise or shock. The British establishment has a long history in that regard. It is a consummate liar. Never to be trusted on anything. Never to be given the benefit of the doubt. Scotland let itself be ‘groomed’ and programed for three centuries by a foreign power. That’s the angry bit.
    My point was we must not wallow in regret. Our technological future now takes a different route.

  288. @Robert Peffers,


    the reason given for there not being a battle was that they had never found the battlefield,

    ” … Despite extensive research over a long period nobody has every found a battle site never mind the remains of 10,000 defeated Caledonians.”

    And there you have the truth of the matter – it was/is fake news and the BBC weren’t even invented in those days.`

    my argument against that was that most of the battlefields of the great battles of history are still to be found,

    that does not mean they never happened.

  289. Footsoldier says:

    Still no mention of McCrone report on oil on BBC or STV. They are simply re-enforcing the view they are propaganda outlets.

  290. Iain mhor says:

    In reference to the renewed interest in McCrone – Good luck with the oilfields.
    An Order in Council and that territory will be ‘off-limits’ a
    Royal Prerogative also allows for the altering of British territorial waters, the ceding of territory and just annexing any old territory – fuck it, why not?
    If you think that’s bollox, just ask the tropical, topical Chagos Islanders. Is the Gareloch any less tactically important?

    We should all remember; that the laws and powers exerciseable in this UK are (and always have been) entirely malleable and made up as they go along – often on the spot and frequently ex post facto – There are no immutable “laws” or “Treaties”, “Articles” or “Acts” and relying on them a-priori is naive.
    The ‘law’ is for after a fait accompli Independence – not to be entreated to for justification of it.

  291. SilverDarling says:


    Anyone a bit concerned about India and Pakistan escalating their dispute in Kashmir?

    Each one feels they must retaliate. Before anyone says they won’t use them, each has a nuclear capability and I feel we can’t predict anything anymore.

  292. john boy says:


    You’ll wait a long time on either the BBC or STV telling us anything positive about Scotland.

    That is why their audiences are dwindling.

    They are better off being ignored.

    Brexit will override any BBC bias and it is Brexit that will win us our independence.

  293. Dr Jim says:

    Wow! India and Pakistan eh I wonder who helped to create that sectarian divide

  294. Dr Jim says:

    There’s no such newspaper as The National, it’s an SNP pamphlet don’t you know and not a reflection of Scotland at all says someone at The Herald who own the National

  295. john boy says:

    For the good of your health, stop watching any BBC Scotland news bulletins, ie Reporting Scotland. Stop listening to GMS.

    Stop watching STV news bulletins, stop watching Scotland Today on STV. Stop watching Scotland Tonight.

    Stop using the STV channel. Use the ITV channel instead.

    Less revenue for STV.

    And finally, notify the BBC and STV and tell them why you have stopped using their services.

  296. sinky says:

    I wonder if any of our Scottish news bulletins will mention the McCrone Report as published in The National.

    It is well worth a read to understand the politics of oil.

  297. sinky says:

    Somethings never change in 45 years. From the McCrone Report.

    North Sea oil could have far-reaching consequences for Scottish membership of EEC because of the tremendously increased political power it would confer. Without oil other members might pay little enough regard to Scotland; her voting power would not be large and it might indeed be argued that she could exert more leverage on the Community as part of the United Kingdom.

    As the major producer of oil in Western Europe, however, Scotland would be in a key position and other countries would be extremely foolish if they did not seek to do all they could to accommodate Scottish interests. For Scotland the net cost of Common Agricultural Policy, which features so large in British discussions would be at most some £40m. a year, a small sum compared with the balance of payments gain from North Sea oil.

    The more common policies come to be decided in Brussels in the years ahead, the more Scotland would benefit from having her own Commissioner in the EEC as of right and her own voice in the Council of Ministers instead of relying on the indirect, and so far hardly satisfactory, form of vicarious representation through UK departments.

  298. raineach says:

    Nationals sold out in Bathgate

  299. Thepnr says:

    Alberto Costa has resigned as PPS to David Mundell.

  300. Proud Cybernat says:

    New BBC Scotland Channel gets its cards…

  301. Gary45% says:

    Bought the National today for the first time in a long while.
    Also bought for a “No voting, Conservative, Daily Heil reading” neighbour, I told them yesterday about todays National.
    Will update when they give me feedback.

  302. Robert Peffers says:

    @Scot Finlayson says: 27 February, 2019 at 10:44 am:

    ” … Err,pish,
    the reason given for there not being a battle was that they had never found the battlefield,”

    Well no, Scot, the point is there is no other corroboration that the claimed battle ever took place nor, if it had, that the account of it is accurate.

    Factually much of the recorded history written by the Romans was being used to promote or demote the winner or loser back in Rome and, in many cases there were conflicting accounts.

    Bear in mind that Scotland was the final frontier of the Roman Empire and the Romans failed to take what became Scotland. In some cases the success, or lack of it, made or broke the political career of the person as the supreme leader of the Roman Empire.

    In any case why on Earth would the North Britons want to engage with the well trained and well armed Romans in a stand up fight? North Britain was much better suited to Guerrilla warfare.

    This tactic is a form of irregular warfare in which a small group of combatants, such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military.

    Roman marchers would be sitting ducks for such tactics. The Highlands, in those days, were forested. This tactic was well proven by Robert Bruce who not only used such tactics in the highlands but on the many Scottish invasions into England. And yes I have read of the claims of the North Britons being forced to stand and fight because the Romans threatened the communal grain storage but that is sheer speculation. Would not it have been fairly simple for the grain to be moved?

  303. Gary45% says:

    The BBC and ITV are combining to make a new TV box to rival Netflix.
    I think “Shitbox” would be a appropriate name for it.

  304. Dr Jim says:

    Local council funding in England has dropped by 49% since 2010, Northhamptonshire Council is the latest of around 6 local councils in England to go effectively bankrupt

    Council worker strikes in the Midlands is causing massive build up of rubbish on the streets leading to fly tipping and the rise in rat and vermin infestations

    NHS England complains of Spanish nurses and other EU workers leaving the profession in their droves and returning to their countries of origin

    Spain has announced they will not recognise British workers qualifications post Brexit

    SNP bad eh!

  305. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Nana @ 07:05,

    In her reply to Stewart Macdonald, May claims that the 17M people who voted Leave “knew what they were voting for”. If events post 2016 have proved anything, it is that an overwhelming proportion of them didn’t have a clue what they were voting for. When even WM parliamentarians, including a substantial number in her own party, obviously have no notion themselves.

    It’s high time that this absurd posturer is called out for the brazen gaslighter that she clearly is.


    I note that in James Kelly’s latest take on Circus Brexit, he echoes my point of yesterday evening that a definite danger lurks in the prospect of a uneasy coalition of hardline Tory Leavers and Labour renegades deciding to take May’s offer and run, for fear of an extension leading to a PV or some other frustration of Leave.

    However he believes that this effect won’t amount to enough to give May her win. Given all the uncertainties, he could turn out to be right about that, but I note that linked Squawkbox article which claims (somewhat approvingly, it would seem) that a stonking 35 Labour rebels would vote Leave no matter what, so that doesn’t seem too sure a call.

    One thing’s dead certain though. Anyway you slice it, as things stand, we are in the hands of a bunch of very conflicted English MPs. High time that changed.

  306. manandboy says:


    After 312 years of believing English lies, always lies, and nothing but lies, the majority of ‘British’ people living in Scotland are undoubtedly the most gullible on earth.

  307. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    I read James Kelly’s piece this morning too following Nana’s link.

    What I got from it was that if on 14th March Parliament vote for the government to request an extension to Article 50 then there could be a major sticking point if no clear objective is presented to the EU as a suitable reason for an extension.

    May wants as short an extension as possible, which to my mind is pointless and achieves absolutely nothing. The EU have been hinting along the same lines I think suggesting that any extension should be up to the end of the proposed transition period currently the end of Dec 2020.

    If May sticks to her guns and the EU refuse a two months transition as being pointless then there is obviously an issue and crashing out less than two weeks later would be the outcome if nothing else were to change.

    I believe something would have to change as the great majority of MP’s in Westminster will not accept this and would be left with only two options. Introduce a bill revoking article 50 followed by a confirmatory referendum or have a second vote of No confidence in May’s government.

    Under such circumstances I believe such a vote could get rid of May and with her gone, an immediate request by Parliament to the EU for a lengthy extension is quite possible.

    Guess though like everybody else we’ll just have to wait and see.

  308. manandboy says:

    Imagine not telling your closest friend that he won £100 million on the Lottery with the ticket in your pocket. That’s kind of like what England did to Scotland on keeping the McCrone Report secret for 30 years until 2005, when they merely suppressed it by saying nothing.

    To this day, some of the most educated people I know, still believe resolutely that Scotland is too poor to be able to afford hospitals and schools.

    The British Establishment – a cocktail of Colonialism, treachery and boundless greed for the wealth of others. Like Lucifer pretending to be Gabriel.

  309. chicmac says:


    Bravo Costa

  310. Daisy Walker says:


    Did Terrible May produce her Impact Assessment for her shit deal yesterday, and if so, can someone post it, even if its just the bit about Scotland’s economy.

    Worth looking at Ian Dunts Twitter account folks re Brexit. He thinks the timetable is as follows:

    12/3 – Vote on TM’s deal (likely voted down but not by as much as before)
    13/3 – Vote on No Deal (likely voted down – ignoring the fact its a default position)
    14/3 – Vote on extending A50 (quite likely to pass, but who knows)

    29/3/19 Brexit happens – if we are in a transition period at that time, the opportunity to unilaterally Rescind Brexit after this date is lost (haven’t double checked this, so be nice if someone here could clarify this).

    If an extensions to A50 does pass, the EU is likely to make the cut off point 1/7/19. Which is the start day of the new EU Parliament.

    Reason being – UK is unlikely to allow candidate to stand for the EU Parli elections in April May ’19, and if the UK is not sitting in the EU Parl as a member after 1/7/19, it would not be lawful for them to extend A50 past this point in time.

    Someone on his twitter feed asked if we could not have an emergency PV. Someone else replied that under UK laws, a minimum of 12 weeks is required to debate/organise a Referendum.

    Anyway, I’m just trying to get some idea of timetable, key moments. Does anyone here see a clarity point in the above, whereby the Terms of Brexit will be clear to the electorate and Nicola Sturgeon can call this. (And I’m not having a go at her, I’m looking at the British Establishments games).

    I do not, the WM Pantomime is proving extremely efficient at muddying the waters and kicking the brexit can down the road, and even extending the road.

    Re Civil Contingencies Act 2004,
    S24 Emergency regulations REQUIRE a senior Minister of the Crown to appoint
    (a) for each part of the Uk, other than England, in relation to which the regulations have effect, a person to be known as The Emergency Coordinator for that part.
    S29 Consutation with Devolved Administrations
    (1) Emergency regulations which relate wholly or partly to Scotland may not be made unless a senior Minister of the Crown has consulted the Scottish Ministers.
    (4) BUT –
    (a) a Senior Minister of the Crown may disapply a requirement to consult if he thinks it necessary by reason of urgency, and
    (b) a failure to satisfy a requirement to consult shall not affect the validity of regulations’

    When is a requirement not a requirement, I know, its when its a Westminster requirement.
    It’s hard to feel an equal partner when reading the above legislation.

    Its on UKGOV site and worth a detailed read.

  311. Patrick Roden says:

    To understand Roman history that has been written by Romans, you should first read the ‘War of the Jews’ by Josephus Flavius.

    In these writing he tells us how hard he had to work to convince the Romans to let him write about how many Roman soldiers were killed and how the Jews nearly overcame them in the battle around the temple in Jerusalem etc.

    Te point being, that Romans recorded history that only showed them in a good light hence the saying ‘history is written by the victors’

    The Romans had lost the 9th Legion in Scotland and this was a complete disaster for them, it might even encourage others to rebel against what was after all just a ‘City State’

    So they needed someone to quickly write a response to the loss of this legion as well as the embarrassment of the many losses they incurred in Scotland so wrote the ridiculous myth of Mons Grauns or whatever they called it.

    For this battle to have taken place, the Scots would have had to stop fighting using guerrilla tactics in terrains that offered them the most advantage, using methods that they had perfected over centuries, and that had been very successful against the Romans until then.
    They would have came out against the Romans in a formation that was perfect for the Roman armies method of fighting, and on a flat plain that would allow the Romans to form their preferred formations.
    The Scots would have had to form unfamiliar formations that would make them very vulnerable to the wide array of deadly projectile weapons the Romans possessed for fighting these open plain type battles.

    It’s a load of propaganda, written for the Roman empire’s citizens, to attempt to quell any ideas that other tribes may have about copying the Scots tactics of attacking the Roman supply chains, and avoiding fighting them in open plains, where they had defeated all comers.

    The exact site of battle fields are very rarely known because they are fought over several days and can move over many miles, but the fact of the battle of Bannockburn or the battle with Bodica etc is witnessed by many many finds since these battles were fought.

    I watched a program recently on youtube in which an armature metal detector guy went up to the castle of Stirling and began to look around at the traditional site, and son found the buckles from the horse decorations that nights would use (I think he was eventually able to identify who it had belonged to)

    He also found a coin that dated from that time (minted in England if my memory serves me right)

    The battle was fought over a large area so although we can not have an exact place it was fought no one seriously claims it didn’t happen.

  312. Petra says:

    @ Breeks at 8:31am ……”That’s a typo. I’m sure BritBox is spelled with a “P”.

    Ha ha ha good one and you could go even further, be more risqué, by changing the “T”.


    @ Legerwood at 10:13am / Mike Cassidy at 10:33am ……..”Shetland.”

    Thanks for the further interesting comments and links about the programme, folks.


    @ Dr Jim at 10:25am ….. ” Yoons …. everything is going to be electric cars now.”…

    Maybe the BritNats need to be reminded that over and above our oil we have renewable energy said to be, ultimately, more lucrative than our oil revenue.


    BBC Scotland reporting again on the Ratcliffe investment in the “UK” oil and chemical sector …. in Scotland. The presenter mentioned the quota (forgotten how much but loads) of barrels of oil being transported each day by the Ineos pipeline. Confusing don’t you think for those sitting at home who have been led to believe that there was no oil left?

  313. Thepnr says:

    I’m pretty sure that if an extension is requested of the EU then there’s going to be a bun fight over how long it should be.

    Senior ministers believe that the European Union will insist on a Brexit delay of up to two years if Britain fails to agree a deal in the next few weeks.

    Several sources have told the Standard they do not think the sort of “short, limited extension” of Article 50 suggested by Theresa May in the Commons yesterday would be permitted by Brussels.

  314. Petra says:

    @ Daisy at 1:28pm …..

    TD posted this document last night, Daisy. For anyone who missed it, it’s worth taking a look.

  315. Dr Jim says:

    Jim Ratcliffe owner of Ineos and Britains richest man in 2014 said Independence was bad for Scotland because we’d be out of the EU
    Jim Ratcliffe owner of Ineos in 2019 now says Independence for Scotland is bad because we’ll be back IN the EU

    Do we think it’s something to do with the *rich* part of his title or do we think as long as the UK controls the oil Jim Ratcliffe does just fine and dandy

    BTW Jim Ratcliffe Britains richest man and owner of Ineos now resides in Monaco which is a part of the EU customs territory controlled by France, so good for him, but bad for Scotland eh

  316. Col says:

    Yes, BBC in Scotland made several references to the UK oil industry. Stv talk about the investment in Scotland. Did anywhere on the BBC cover the newspaper front pages and did they cover the national front page?

  317. Golfnut says:

    @Patrick Roden.

    Rome’s casualty list on the frontier amounted to over 40,000 men over a 2 year period between incursions by Scots and Picts. The casualties were particularly high amongst Scouts. Of course by then there were few actual Romans on the frontier.

  318. Jack Murphy says:

    Robert Louis opened his comment at 7:25 am:

    “Just a few years ago, I never thought I’d see a Scottish newspaper attack the blatantly biased BBC and highlight the duplicity of Westminster against Scotland, like The National is doing.

    If you do nothing else today, buy a copy of The National, not only to ensure you and others can see just how twisted the unionist parties have been in their actions against Scotland, but also to show support for this newspaper.


    I absolutely agree.
    Seriously—If you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. [smiley thing]
    Buy the paper edition when possible as the first option.

  319. Dr Jim says:

    I was contemplating Jenny Marra’s lies and it made me pause for thought that supposing the person in her complaint were to have been wearing a badge showing support for a particular political party, in Jenny Marra’s twisted mind or motives does that make a person less credible than if they didn’t support a political party or because it’s the wrong political party

    Are you now or have you ever been a member of the SNP

    Is this what Jenny Marra demands, McCarthyism

  320. defo says:

    That pipe carries 450,000 bpd, or roughly £30m/day at todays prices. (just over £11b/year)

  321. Bobp says:

    Dr Jim 1.58pm. Aye I’m sure all these well off moneyed twats will have their villas in France or Spain, good eu for them. But bad EU for the rest of the plebs. You just wonder what it’s going to take for your average Scot to awaken from their 300 plus year slumber,and smell the coffee.

  322. Muscleguy says:

    Clearly Ms Marra is a follower of the ideas and techniques of Dr Goebbles. She issues a lie secure in the knowledge that a lot of people, faithful SLAB acolytes, will see it but not see or go looking for the factual rebuttals. Thus her lies do their work for her.

    I was told in absolute certainty the other day that the SNP are going to scrap the pensioner travel card and make them pay for their travel in full. When I enquired as to the source of this I was told it was ‘common knowledge’ but could not cite anything written down.

    This smacks strongly of a Unionist, probably SLAB whispering campaign.

  323. Scott says:

    Oh dear, Funny talk has been sacked.

    Theresa May SACKS ministerial aide Alberto Costa for trying to force the Government to protect EU citizens in Britain after Brexit (but nobody told Sajid Javid who backed the plan)

  324. Bobp says:

    Manandboy 1.01pm. You be careful there or you’ll be getting accused of being rock in disguise. Though I 100% agree with your statement.

  325. Capella says:

    @ Patrick Roden – if Bennachie is the site of Mons Graupius then there is a good reason why the Celts might have made a stand there. The hill is thought to have been a sacred site for them and there is an iron age fort at the top. The Romans put an end to the iron age cultures in the rest of Britain but not in Scotland.

    The whole area is rich in standing stone circles, including recumbent stone circles unique to the area.

    It commands extensive views across the north east and would have been an important vantage point.

    That would be a good site to take your metal detectors.

  326. Daisy Walker says:

    Thanks Petra,

    ‘The ECJ has made clear that revocation of Article 50 could happen any time until the Withdrawal Agreement had come into force. This implies that it could happen even after a Withdrawal Agreement had been concluded and ratified by both parties, provided it had not yet come into force.

    If there were no agreement, the revocation could happen any time until the expiry of the Article 50 period: by March 29 2019 if the period is not extended, and after that if it is.’

    The last 4 words are a big relief.

    Re the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

    WM / The Crown can declare a state of emergency (and pretty much all of Brexit meets the definition).

    Then they are required to install their place man (their words re ‘man’) into Scotland to Coordinate it. They are required to ‘consult’ with Scottish Ministers, but if urgent can chose not to, and even if they should have consulted but didn’t, they will not be liable.

    A Random thought.

    Can the Scottish parliament pass through emergency laws, and get upstream of Westminster.

    Can they Declare their own State of Emergency due to Brexit – obviously not using those exact words.

    Can they bypass WM, and get control of key infrastructure now?

    Let’s look at No Deal Brexit.

    England Imports a great deal of Electricity from mainland Europe, and from Scotland.

    The stuff from Mainland EU potentially stops on day 1 of No Deal.

    Drinking Water – the chemicals for purification – come from Mainland EU, Britain can still allow stuff in, but there may start being delays.

    All stuff coming in, although the UK doesn’t have to put up customs to stop them coming in, there is the issue of VAT to consider on goods.

    So, mainland EU might stop the stuff coming to UK, if it is not satisfied the UK is doing its bit to collect the VAT.

    30% food is imported from EU, much of it fresh – delays = spoils = cancels.

    Flights – likely grounded.

    Exports stopped = reduced GPD.

    Medicines, huge amount come from EU… see VAT.

    The Haulage companies have not been allocated permits. If there is a supply of diesel for them, and home grown farm food cannot be exported, potentially they could become great allies in a time of emergency – but should it be one where Scot Gov is in control of the mitigation, or Westminster. Because I know which country will come off second best if WM is in charge.

    Anyway, just thinking aloud a bit.

    Much of the above, but not all, also comes into play under Terrible May’s deal, but not quite so long lasting.

  327. SilverDarling says:

    @Dr Jim

    It’s just the latest in a long list of manoeuvres to link the failings of Tayside Health Board indirectly with the SNP.

    If the Dr in question had been wearing a Friends of Israel badge would they be as offended?

    Remember how they used the tragic suicide and the anguish of the relatives who then directed their anger towards the SNP? Shona Robinson was pilloried for that the same way Nicola Sturgeon gets the direct blame if there are bed bugs in private lettings in Govan.

    Marra is relentless in her unionism and hatred for the SNP and independence. She has made it her mission to use any means available even if innocent people are collateral damage.

    Of course, when you see how affiliation to a cause is used to discredit people is it any wonder some of us want to be anonymous on this site or on social media?

  328. SilverDarling says:

    * Robison

  329. Bobp says:

    Dr Jim 10.25am. On the night of the Honda swindon closure on the main BBC news, they pushed the fact that electric cars were the main reasons for the closure and not Brexit. B****x. It’ll be a long time before the public accept electric cars. If I could jump in one and drive to Scotland and back without looking for a charging point , I’d be first in the queue to buy one.

  330. Lenny Hartley says:

    Capella, re benachie, no much room on top or the mither tap for 20,000 Celts plus several thousand romans and mercenary’s. As Auld Bob says, fake news.

  331. Cactus says:

    May aye present for your pleasure a music video plug for Dixie.
    Just released…

    “You Got A Hold” by Dixie Lang:

    This is what Scotland does to me.

  332. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. Tacitus.

    Tacitus: life and career

    Critical Analysis on Tacitus: Germania Essay

    Imperial Rule in Tacitus’ Agricola and Martin Luther King Jr’s Beyond Vietnam

  333. Cubby says:

    Thepnr@1.46 pm

    “I’m pretty sure that if an extension is requested of the EU then there’s going to be a bun fight over how long it should be.”

    I’m pretty sure that it won’t be long before people are saying we can’t agree on how long it should be let’s have a people’s vote on the matter. LOL Westminster is a farce.

  334. Stravaiger says:

    @ Lenny Hartley 8:52pm

    I believe there was a battle at Mons Graupius and it took place on what is now Grant Park, Forres. Sueno’s stone might just possibly commemorate the battle, though it could equally be commemorating a later battle at the same strategic site.

    If you follow the line of the Agricolan marching camps that’s where it leads you to, plus the description of the battle fits the location.

  335. Breeks says:

    Know the story of Roman Scotland which makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up?

    Stenhousemuir. You think it’s kinda modern for a placename, it’s not Gaelic in origin, not even especially Scottish sounding…

    But Stenhousemuir comes from the stane hoos moor… in other words the moor distinguished as unique and made identifiable from all other moors by virtue of having a “stane hoos” on it, in a land which didn’t have many, if any, stane hooses at all.

    The bit that’s spooky? The stane hoos wasn’t in fact a house at all, but a Roman Temple built around the 2nd Century. Arthur’s O’on, or oven, derived from its shape. To quote Wiki… “the easiest interpretation is that the O’on was a tropaeum, an official monument dedicated to Victory, and also commemorating the campaign, led by Quintus Lollius Urbicus, that led to the establishment of the Antonine Wall”.

    That’s right, the moor that came to be known as the stane hoos moor actually got it’s stane hoos before or around the time the Antonine Wall was begun in AD 142…

    Back in history, around 1200, when Scotland was assigning its “modern” place-names, there was already a place organically described as the stane hoos moor. Was there an earlier name for it that fell out of use? Who knows? But if I was time traveller and went back to 2nd Century Scotland, it seems to me there’s an outside chance I might, just possibly, understand the gist of the spoken language.

    It is known and recorded that by the 13th C, the name and location of Stanehoosmoor was already extant, so it’s origins clearly go back further, maybe much further. Don’t you think it would be absolutely mind blowing to hear Scotland’s speech from before the 13th Century, or even earlier and actually understand it? I mean, you would know what a stane hoos was… what else would you understand?

    I wonder if the Picts knew what a stane hoos was too. I’m betting they did. They were still around for 800 years after the Stane hoos of Stenhousemuir was built. I think that’s pretty mind blowing. History? It’s just a heart beat away…

  336. Effijy says:

    I seen the latest UK wealth gap in the Guardian yesterday.
    You guessed it. The good old Tories have keep the ball rolling
    Along a 58 year run of richer getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

    I dislike the poorer aspect within that saying.
    It actually is the difference between the very wealthy
    And all others but many middle or working class fools
    Like to kid themselves that it doesn’t apply to them.
    IT DOES!

    Look at the joyous wealth that has grown exponentially for, May’s household, Cameron, Osbourne,
    Blair and Brown.

    The more they get the less for the rest of us!

    I see that particularly irksome Brown earned £1.3 Million last year!
    I can’t see how he could earn anything outside of a circus so is it
    Reward money for paying off the Bankers debt , or just corrupt inside
    Info filling his pockets.

  337. Capella says:

    @ Lenny Hartley – don’t be silly. As you can read from Tacitus’ account, the Celts were on the plain with some ranks standing on the lower slopes. They then melted off into the forest. He obviously spent many happy evening hours with his father in law playing with their toy soldiers.

    @ SC – thx for the Mons Graupius pdf. That’s going to take some time to read! And I see CBB has posted more Tacitus tracts. It’s a full time job studying Scottish History. 🙂

  338. Jack Murphy says:

    Stephen Gethins MP,Scottish National Party puts forward the Brexit Amendment in the Commons this afternoon.

    Begins at 16:16:24 if this link doesn’t work properly.

    Many thanks to Parliament TV [the Commons].

  339. CameronB Brodie says:

    El Gordo’s problem is he doesn’t understand how humans interact with society. He believes humans are rational, calculating, utilitarians. Exactly how Tories view the world. Humans aren’t rations though, we are mostly emotional.

    El Gordo is an intellectual dinosaur who’s conception of reality is well passed it’s use by date. He needs to step in to the post-colonial era but will instead take all he can get from his neo-liberal bankster paymasters.

  340. Ghillie says:

    Cactus @ 3.42 pm

    ‘You got a hold on my mind’ by Dixie Lang

    Cactus says ‘This is what Scotland does to me’ 🙂

    Cactus, thankyou for that link to Dixie’s new song =)

    The words, film and singing are just lovely.

    I’ll carry that with me today =)

  341. schrodingers cat says:

    re scotlands roman history

    eg, carpow on the now fife border

    recorded by sibbald as a roman fort in 1722 (history of fife)
    recorded as a roman fort in both the old and new statistical accounts by the local parish ministers in 1796 and 1823.

    notice of this roman fort may have been recorded at an even earlier date by the monks of lindores abbey. such records have not survived.

    thats the point, even if the monks had written down a reference to the fort in eg 1400 CE, who would and could have read it? before this time, any local knowledge of this roman fort must have been passed down through the ages by word of mouth.

    Indeed, this is most likely method that the people in lindores today “know” that carpow is a roman fort, word of mouth, most have never read sibbalds history of fife.

    the 1985 archeological dig confirmed definitively, for the first time, that carpow was indeed a roman fort, dating to 82 CE.

    this senario is true for most roman artifacts. roads and forts etc in scotland. ask yourself, is there any roman remains nearby where you live and then ask yourself how you know about them?

    the story of arthurs oven is that it survived upto 1790 when it was demolished where as many other “well known” roman places would have left no visible remains above the surface after about 300 CE.

    eg Crammond

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