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Jenny Marra is a liar

Posted on February 26, 2019 by

Yesterday afternoon the Labour list MSP Jenny Marra tweeted this allegation about Dr Drew Walker, the Director Of Public Health for NHS Tayside:

It wasn’t true. But that wasn’t the worst of it.

Marra later tweeted that NHS Tayside were investigating the allegation:

But went oddly quiet when the results of the investigation were released:

The pin Dr Walker was wearing was a white ribbon, as seen in this picture of him at a previous meeting published by the Courier as part of their story:

Here’s a close-up:

It’s the symbol of the White Ribbon campaign, which seeks to involve men actively in the fight against domestic violence. As you can see, it could easily be misinterpreted as an upside-down SNP logo (as could almost all similar ribbons of different colours used by various campaigns):

And that’s all fine, up to a point. Anyone can make an honest mistake. But 16 hours later, having been told repeatedly by countless people of her error, Jenny Marra hasn’t issued a correction or apology to Dr Walker, or deleted either of her tweets making the false claims. And nor do we expect her to.

Because it’s not the first time she’s been caught out lying about NHS Tayside and failing to retract it. Last year she claimed that departing chief Lesley McLay had received a £300,000 payoff – a figure Marra appeared to have completely invented:

The actual package McLay received – her standard legal and contractual entitlement – was less than a third of the amount claimed by Marra:

Marra again issued no retraction or apology for her false claim.

Labour, of course, have no compunction whatsoever about using NHS employees for political purposes when it suits them. In 2015 this site was subjected to a sustained and vitriolic media and Labour attack over a nurse who Labour had pictured in her NHS uniform on campaign leaflets:

Since NHS employees aren’t supposed to wear their uniform in political material lest it be taken as the NHS endorsing a party, we’d suggested that perhaps Labour may have used an actress to portray one. In fact it turned out that while the nurse WAS an actress in her spare time, Labour had simply recklessly failed to airbrush out the NHS logo on their leaflet, putting the nurse at risk of being fired for breaking the rules. We’d credited the party with too much competence.

When the full facts came out, we made sure to state clearly that she was a real nurse as well as an actress, and as we’d never insulted her or made any false allegations about her in the first place there was nothing to retract or apologise for.

Jenny Marra made a categorical factual statement about Dr Drew Walker which wasn’t true, just as she’d done about Lesley McLay, implying he’d behaved improperly, but has made no effort at all to correct or apologise for either one, and indeed has left the original false claims in place for people to read and retweet.

Such a lack of elementary decency and dignity is now dismayingly common among Unionist politicians, as was recently seen in the case of pro-Brexit Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski who doggedly stuck to an extraordinary lie about the post-war Marshall Plan despite an avalanche of indisputable evidence to the contrary.

For Scottish Labour, though, it’s not so much a series of unfortunate errors as a modus operandi, and Jenny Marra is one of its prime proponents. We wish we could express any hope that this would be the last example, or that the Scottish media would treat it in the same outraged way as they did when we DIDN’T make a false claim about an NHS employee. But as ever, we won’t be holding our breath.

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Brotyboy

I understand she’s married to a DC Thomson family member, so we won’t be seeing The Courier looking at this.

HandandShrimp

Remarkable that a Labour MSP should not be aware of the white ribbon campaign or take so much umbrage over a CND badge. The kind of attitudes and response you would expect from a Murdo or Rees Mogg.

What a shabby state Labour is in.

Scot Finlayson

Just a thought,

maybe she doesnae ken how tae delete a tweet,

she is Labour ken.

defo

3 Cheers for JM. This’ll have opened a few more eyes to the unionist’s lies.
Every little helps !

sassenach

What a surprise!!!
Jenny Marra can’t help herself.

winifred mccartney

It is a sad but true fact that lies, damn lies and labour lies are all they have left. The SNP Govt is too competent for them and so they are only left with lies and it is not a new thing. Think of JB, remember her saying one thing to a labour audience and exactly the opposite in parliament, they simply have not yet realised they are easily found out with todays communications and the fact that some of us a talking to one another. Labour, grand masters in the lying field, just think of the Glasgow women and equal pay and the dear RL’s role then they have the gall to claim credit for the women getting their pay. If only they realised how stupid they look. I hope the Glasgow women continue with the case against their unions and sue the pants off them for what they did. Only last year Johan Lamont’s husband voted against equal pay for women. Unbelievable.

shug

SNP should call her out at first ministers questions

Then we can watch the BBC air brush it out

What a bunch of jokers

louis.b.argyll

Don’t let her off with it. She is a professional liar. Knows exactly what she’s doing. Is she in contempt of her responsibilities?

Keep it up Rev.

Scott Cameron

Jenny is married to DC Thomson exec John Thomson, and as such has carte blanche when it comes to access to The Courier, Evening Telegraph etc.

Brian Powell

I guess folk naively believe there is some Parliamentary mechanism of dealing with liars like Marra, but there is nothing unless perhaps it is repeated in Parliament, which she won’t.

I now believe this isn’t a new phenomena brought about by the Ind Ref but judging by the Labour Councillors it is long standing and endemic.

john boy

Does she have a relative from Glasgow called C U Ra Marra?

bobajock

Ahhhhh – the ties to the meedja that she has …

Labour scum.

Marcia

Scott Cameron

During her first term of office, future the in-laws newspaper gave her quite a fair amount of coverage in the local papers almost to the point of covering the opening of her mail or opening of her curtains. Thankfully the local papers did print the photo of the 2016 Dundee West Holyrood declaration which showed her discomfiture of losing by quite a wide margin. It was a picture to behold. All that publicity for nothing.

Truth

@Scott Cameron 9:31

Ah, that explains why she was able to have a go at the same man in the Evening Telegraph. Seems like she’s on some sort of vendetta.

link to eveningtelegraph.co.uk

Iain

I find her attitude as an example of the incredible tribalism of the Labour Party, based on an apparent belief that in any given circumstance it, or its member, is always right and can do no wrong. Whatever the issue, whatever the circumstances, whether the leadership’s current tactical position is left of centre or right of centre, the core belief of the true believers in the sanctity of the existence of the Party and its members holds.

There’s not so much of a core political belief as a collective expression of antipathetic and resentful personalities.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Jenny Marra is a liar Yesterday afternoon the Labour list MSP Jenny Marra tweeted this allegation about Dr […]

Republicofscotland

Disgraceful by Marra, she should apologise imediately, mind you her credibility died awhile back along with the London Labour branch office in Scotland.

Carping from the sidelines and deceit appear to be the Labour branch office in Scotland mainstay.

Bob Mack

These days I am more likely to believe Unionists are always liars than David Ikes claim that the Royal family are secret lizard beings.

You never know though.

Politics is a dirty game , and today’s Unionist representatives are covered in the grime from the very bottom of that particular barrel.

mike cassidy

Truth 9.50.

Good find!

Peter McCulloch

I would like to see her being made to make a full and unreserved public apology to Dr Walker, and I would also suggest she should consider her position and resign as an MSP.

Though I would hold my breath on her doing the latter

Socrates MacSporran

Right folks – get posting.

If this story about Jenny Marra gets to 777 comments, then surely the Rev will need to put Jenny top of the Thickos league, displacing current leader James Kelly.

Scott Cameron

I also know someone who was at school (St John’s) at the same time and described her as “horrible, utterly horrible”.

starlaw

Jenny Marra Spotted exactly what she was the first time I heard her talk.

JOML

I attended a debate at Holyrood back in 2014, concerning the potential impact of independence on the Scottish Finance industry. Marra was on the panel and obviously knew little of the Finance industry – so much so that she resorted to telling the audience THREE times that her grandfather was at Dunkirk! Sound bites and bullshit was all we got from her that day and it appears nothing has changed.

dakk

Of course it could be that the good doctor isn’t really that bothered about whether anyone gets the shit beaten out of them by a member of the opposite sex,and just wears the ribbon ’cause it looks like an SNP badge.

Yes. That will be it.

Guilty as sin.

Where would we be without lovely honest british nationalist people like Jenny Mara.

potter

Jenny Marra is a horror. Her campaign against the Mental Health services in Tayside was given almost daily publicity by the shiterag The Courier. Using the families of people who had committed suicide for political gain, parading them around Holyrood demanding the resignation of Shona Robison. This has lead to poor moral and experinced clinicians leaving the service. Marra however is silent when it is pointed out to her there were 100 less suicides in Tayside in the period the SNP were in office than when Labour were. A horror ambulance chasing politician.

dakk

I retract my earlier statement at 10.30.

I believe the SNP deliberately designed their logo to look like any light coloured ribbon for good causes in order to make it look like they have a bigger following of decent thoughtful people than they actually have.

Aye, that’s what it’ll be.

dakk

Pardon the good doctor,it was that SNP at it again.

Cubby

All the Britnats have left are desperate lies.

British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

Jock

She is now claiming on twitter that he was wearing a YES wristband.

Republicofscotland

The Marra duplicitous Tweet is still up, not even a hint of embarrassment, or apology from London Labour’s Scots lackey.

link to mobile.twitter.com

David Mills

Someone get Jenny some help hallucinating enemies were there are none could be an indication on an underlying psychosis

Ironically in steady of attack the NHS she may be better seeking their assistance.

Macart

Politics as it is practised… Q.E.D. moment.

And they wonder why folk don’t trust the big institutions of the political class or government anymore? 🙄

Could be because folk are tired of being overtly manipulated, insulted or misled on a daily basis. They might want to think about that.

Scottish Steve

I have never heard of this non-entity before. Is this why she makes up lies? To get in the nedia since, as an unknown list MSP, nobody knows who she is.

Of course she would be a list MSP. There is no other way she’d get elected. Talent and personality of a basket.

Big Bill

Could this be Tory lackey wearing a Wings Over Scotland lapel badge?
link to thenational.scot

Dr Jim

It’s Labour, they know who their audience is because they created them along with the media who supports them

Belt out the most repugnant lie you like, use the media to report it then when its proved to be a lie claim the government is working against the supporters of your party by undermining the truth, but never apologise for the original lie, make up another lie to to increase the hatred of your supporters towards your target and the supporting media will report that giving the appearance that the first lie has gone away

The first rule of political lying is to keep telling more of them, it’s worked for Union politicians the whole of my lifetime

Because they know their audience

Gary45%

Jenny Marra is a liar.
No surprise there.

Peter McCulloch

My post at 26 February, 2019 at 10:09 am
The word should have read as wouldn’t not would.

Any way, it seems British nationalist politicians believe that they can behave and say what they like, without there being any consequences.

Its bad enough when we see them doing what they can to undermine the Scottish Government at every opportunity as well as putting down our country.

When they then make false allegations against a Dr working in our NHS
Then its about time there were consequences for these British nationalists like Jenny Marra.

Maybe people in the Tayside area should be highlighting this smear in letters to the Tory supporting rag the Courier.

Dr Jim

Has no one noticed that England has managed to create themselves a third party who are not a party but are so much more newsworthy than the actual third party who are the SNP who have now all but dissapeared from the English political debate on TV

Sky news commissioned its own poll of 3,000 people who incidentally all reside in England in order to inform us of how the *UK* feels about the state of our *Nation*, yes I know what you’re going to say but there really is only one *Nation*

And it’s not us, and no it’s not that they forget about us, it’s that we just don’t count until they tell us we do

Reports are also coming in that the UK Guv is about to reject the decision of the UN ruling over the Chagos islands and *Carry on regardless*

Yes, just like the films they made portraying hapless British incompetents bumbling their way through life but waving a Union flag which made Britain Grate, God save the Kween

MaggieC

Does labour have anyone that’s not a liar ??

John Alexander Ferguson

The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.

john boy

Johann Lamont taught her everything she knows.

Jenny was an excellent pupil in the Lamont School of Lies.

SilverDarling

Jenny Marra will leave that tweet up for ever now. She has successfully sown the seed that Tayside NHS politically compromised, so her job is done.

The IG is now a presence on all the media platforms available to Government and Opposition. It gives Labour and the Tories 2 or 3 proxy voices each depending on who Marr/ QT / Peston has on.

Scotland has now been eliminated from any discussions on Brexit or our own future. You can see London BBC saying ‘you have your own channel for that’. Maybe that was the aim all along.

That Sky Poll is bonkers. They should just have asked ‘who, as an English person, do you hate most?’

john boy

Dr Jim

They have Scotland and Wales down as regions.

Sky News State of the Nation poll.

link to news.sky.com

Breeks


John Alexander Ferguson says:
26 February, 2019 at 11:20 am
The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.

Oh John, John, John….. shaking my head.

James Kelly? Murdo Neverwin Fraser? Ross FondlerThomson? Egg McMurphy? Subway Elmer? Briggs? Kelly again for the double take… Bruiser Carmichael?

If I can say one good thing about the BritNats, they don’t seem to discriminate when it comes to picking their cretins, gobshites, and bottom feeders.

Effijy

Yet another pack of lies from this woman.

Her actions and those of her party, Labour,
Really establishes the incompetence and lack
Of morality in both parties.

Even as a teenager my Dad explained why
You should never jump the gun.

My making a polite enquiry regarding your suspicions
Without condemnation, you can gather the full picture
And see if the facts confirm or deny Guilt without putting
Egg on your face.

Marra, you have enough egg on your face
For a Quiche. You are indeed a right Quiche!

Dr Jim

To qualify an correct my post on the Sky news poll
they did ask *around* 200 people in Scotland their views

So that’s clearly representative of our *region* then

This latest media crap is making me extraordinarily angry today, particularly when they tell me I don’t like the politicians that I and half my country vote for and are the governing party because we bloody DO like them

Scotland is not like England, sorry England but we’re just not so stop saying we are because you’re just so wrong

handclapping

dakk @1040
As the person who “designed” the SNP logo, that was not in my mind. Ribbons only became a thing o/a Vietnam’s “Tie a yellow ribbon” which was 10 years later

Giving Goose

I have strongly held beliefs and opinions, like as lot of people.
I like to express them when given the opportunity.
But one thing that I don’t do is lie.
What is the point of telling lies about my opinions and beliefs?
If I should tell lies about an opinion, then the lie lays bare the inescapable fact that the opinion is weak or incorrect.
And what is the point in that.

I’ve been convinced for years that Unionism attracts Sociopaths.
Here is a definition (below) to reflect on.
I recognise these traits in most Unionist politicians.
Unionism is a societal illness that afflicts Scotland.
It truly is a disease.

A sociopath is a person who has little to no conscience. They will lie, cheat, steal and manipulate others for their own benefit. They know exactly what they are doing, they just don’t care because they don’t think that way. If you are naive enough, they will brainwash you into doing exactly what they say and what they want which is the only time a sociopath is truly happy.

Poor Scotland.

Josef Ó Luain

Blame who you will: Public-life today is an unregulated sewer wherein reform seems an impossibility.

grafter

One of the many trying to undermine our objective for independence. Meanwhile down south the destruction of the Labour Party and Corbyn continues unabated under the smokescreen of the Brexit fiasco. Socialism, a redistribution of wealth and political accountability are fast disappearing under this toxic union. If independence is refused again we are all slaves to the 1%.

Effijy

If people like Marra and parties like hers spent a few minutes investigating matters like this themselves, it would save our NHS Trusts from having to waste valuable and expensive time investigation trumped up charges.

Just like their Unionist Partner Carmichael with French Gate.
It cost £1,000,000 of public money to nail him as a liar and nothing was done to him as far as his Unionist colleagues were concerned and the fake Parliamentary Standards Commission.

These people are liars and a liability Scotland can’t afford!

Dr Jim

The SNP logo is a stylised mixture of the Thistle and the Saltire to represent Scotland’s Flag and oor wee jaggy Flooer

robertknight

It used to be the case that the easiest way to tell when a Labour politician was lying was to watch for their lips moving.

Now we just need to become aware of them having posted a Tweet and the same applies!

Arbroath1320

Come on now peeps.

you all know by now, or at least you SHOULD know by now, that this is just another excellent example off oor wee Jenny practising for her future promotion.

Yes I know everyone is scratching their heads about what future promotion I could possibly be talking about. Well folks there is only ONE possible promotion that fits the bill here and it is to become the next temporary branch office manager … obviously! 😀

I think we can all at least admit wee Tricky Dicky has gone well passed his sell by date by now … hasn’t he? 🙂

Dr Jim

Aw naw! I want James Kelly

Jason Smoothpiece

The conduct of Marra and her ilk show clearly that they are unable to challenge the SNP on policy.

The unionist / English partys in Scotland are beaten politically and are forced to lie and spin constantly.

The question is who votes for these failures?

Hamish100

Prepare for election!! eehhh EU elections!!

Tories not fit to govern. Labour not fit to govern

Daisy Walker

o/t re Jeremy Corbyn GE, PV, etc

Under the fixed term parliament act

They need a minimum of 25 working days to call a GE. Its now 24 working days to 2/3/19.

If there’s no time for a GE… I would respectfully suggest there is no time – before 2/3/19 – for a PV.

Tusk attempted to talk to TM yesterday re extensions (probably in terms of contingency planning at this stage) and got the bums rush.

Both TM’s deal and No Deal – will lead to significant disruption on essential day to day trades, and both protect the 1% elite from the new tax haven laws.

I’ve posted some info re Civil Contingencies Act 2004 over on the last thread – the meaning of Emergencies reads like a Brexit to do list. (And/or Tory manifesto).

Can some bright, interested minds on here have a wee read of the Act (not my notes) and have a wee think about it.

If the Scottish Parliament is going to invoke some Constitutional Claim, or legal claim for Scotland to stay in EU, or dissolve the Union, or, hold Indy/PV-2, or anything else that has been speculated on… I genuinely cannot see how they will be PHYSICALLY able to do so if the CCA 2004 is invoked, and it is possible that any attempt to do so would be seen/interpreted as a threat to UK Security in itself.

Have a look folks, see what you think.

Abulhaq

Twitter has been described by dana boyd, lower case preferring, ‘queer’ (her word) researcher with Microsoft as ‘social grooming’. We ought to be wary of any platform that enables grooming.
Twitter was Islamic State’s medium of choice. Along with other social media platforms certain western national governments need to be less indulgent of their American owners. Cui bono?

CameronB Brodie

I’m not sure if MSP Jenny Marra is a pathological lair, or whether her deceit is calculated to protect her moral identity, i.e. her British nationalism. I think the later is the most likely, though being a pathological liar does appear to be a character trait of British nationalists.

Developing the Virtues: Integrating Perspectives
Moral Self-Identity and the Social-Cognitive Theory of Virtue

This chapter describes a social-cognitive theory of moral identity. It trades on important themes in ethical theory that emphasize the importance of second-order desires and strong evaluation. After placing moral identity within a historical context of moral development research, and describing Blasi’s pioneering work in reaction to it, the chapter outlines the key elements of the social-cognitive alternative that emphasizes the accessibility and centrality of moral identity within the working self-concept, and the role of situations in activating or deactivating its accessibility. The empirical warrant for this approach is reviewed. A claim is made that social-cognitive moral identity theory is a progressive research program and has implications for current debates about situationism and the stability of moral dispositions.

Keywords: moral identity, social cognition, personality, schemas, accessibility, situationism
link to oxfordscholarship.com

Social cognitive conceptions of moral identity
link to sicotests.com

The Interactive Influence of Situations and Moral Identity Centrality
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org

Hamish100

Major news day. BBC 1 Cuts out the snp raising questions to the PM. On BBC1 Scotland News the main issue? Celtic manager may move to Leicester. Really?

Professional Journalism and bbc scotland don’t go together.

A. Graham

“John Alexander Ferguson says:
26 February, 2019 at 11:20 am
The list of women MSPs such as JM, KD, JL, MC,(mags) not to forget Wendy and so on doesn’t encourage me to consider women in politics a good thing, especially an all-female ballot. I think Marra does much to damage the chances for good women to stand for election.”

How ridiculous. Shall I list four male politicians and try to deduce that men in politics is not a good thing?

winifred mccartney

Are all these labour msp’s, mp’s etc who wear a red rose breaking the rules in public office as Jenny Marra would suggest.

The fact that she lied about NHS Tayside boss and only applies standards in public office to others says everything you need to know about labour.

Jenny Marra failing her pitch for next leader of the branch office – or is lying a pre-requisite for this post.

Morgatron

I see Spunky Hothersall jumped on the bandwagon too. They are really a pathetic bunch of truth blockers and liars. Her previous pish spouting and subsequent outing as a bare faced liar should make her illegible to hold office in any capacity. I think it high time they brought back public stocks as a deterrent for lying.

manandboy

“If we’re heading for a hard Brexit then we’re heading for a united Ireland” | Patrick Kielty

Whisper it, but another EU referendum is the best way out of this mess, even for the DUP, says comedian Patrick Kielty
http://www.theguardian.com

“blutgraetsche commented: “No matter what kind of Brexit happens in the end, even if there will be no Brexit at all, these last few years will have a lasting effect on the collective psyche of Northern Ireland and Scotland. The experience to be forced by Westminster to do something that the majorities of their respective populations did not vote for was and is profound. The UK in its current form is doomed.”

Right there, the nut is cracked. Like a marriage which died unsurprisingly one day, but lived at the same address for a short while afterwards. The divorce was as inevitable as it was predictable. Such is The Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

Bob Mack

Jenny should remember as should all unionists that the social media of today is right on their heels rather than halfway round the world.

She insults us the people by thinking we are too stupid to check facts. Wrong Jenny. A lot of people have social media or electronic news these days. Jenny only makes a greater fool of herself and her reputation such as it is by lying deliberately to score a very minor point indeed.

How could you then trust her with something really important?

mountain shadow

The Marras continue to think that Dundee is their personal family fiefdom despite being comprehensively rejected by Yes city.

As ever, the truth is only secondary to stirring the shite.

CameronB Brodie

More Social Cognitive Theory on moral identity.

Moral Identity: What Is It, How Does It Develop, and Is It Linked to Moral Action?
link to researchgate.net

Chapter 8 Moral Identity, Moral Functioning, and the Development of Moral Character
link to researchgate.net

Integrating moral identity and moral judgment to explain everyday moral behavior: a dual-process model
link to repository.hkbu.edu.hk

Vronsky

There is a clear policy from the Brit parties in Scotland of deliberate lying, on the (sadly reasonable) assumption that a proportion of the electorate will believe them. It is working to an extent, but I’m not sure that it’s working well enough to save them.

It’s all pretty disgusting, but the good news is that they have reduced themselves to such a degree that they now have no other resources. There might be a positive reason to save the Union, but no Unionist is looking for it.

CameronB Brodie

And here’s some Social Ethics of moral identity.

Moral Identity and Its Links to Ethical Ideology and Civic Engagement
link to journals.sagepub.com

Harnessing the Power of Moral Identity to Improve Morality
link to blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk

The Effects of Moral Judgment and Moral Identity on Moral Behavior: An Empirical Examination of the Moral
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org

Breeks


Hamish100 says:
26 February, 2019 at 1:20 pm
Major news day. BBC 1 Cuts out the snp raising questions to the PM…..

Were they censored altogether or were their words spoken by an actor?

Giving Goose

CameronB Brodie

You hit the nail on the head.

The debate in Scotland is everything about identity.

Jenny Marra is British and will use lies to justify and enforce that identity.

British = lies.

chicmac

Haven’t wheeled this out for some time but this seems an appropriate moment.

I believe the law of perjury should be extended, in effect if even with a different name, to encompass all statements made by elected representatives on a public forum of any kind, be it broadcasting, press, speeches or social media platforms.

i.e. the police should have the power to arrest, lay criminal charges against suspected offenders and bring them to court.

My reasoning is that in the basic interests of justice, it is a criminal offence to lie during testimony in court, for the simple reason that it is the jury who must decide on the verdict and to do so they need to have have access to statements of fact which are actually correct.

Notwithstanding that proving anyone is actually lying rather than being simply mistaken is no easy task but nowadays, perhaps, is a lot easier with the existence of modern technology (cell phones, emails, social media) than it has been in the past

In a democracy there is a strong parallel between the election process and a court trial. The scale is of course, different. The ‘jury’ who will give their verdict, is comprised of the entire electorate. Their representatives in ‘court’ are those whom they have chosen by election. The time scale is a bit longer than usual for court cases. Most saliently of all, in terms of the underpinning of justice in society, the election process is even more important than for court cases since those involved may not just thwart justice by lying on any given specific matter, but having exercised their dishonesty with impunity can actually go on to help shape the very laws that the justice system must implement. A double whammy for justice.

It is about time that the electorate were accorded the same respect as a court jury and that justice itself was protected.

If nothing else, the threat of potential criminal charges would work wonders on the statements of ‘fact’ uttered by many of our elected representatives on such forums.

geeo

Breeks@2.05pm.

BBC didn’t even wait until Corbyn had finished his response before cutting to Jo Coburn who said..”we will leave the Commons for now, but will return if anything interesting happens”

All you need to know about the BBC’s political leanings.

Dr Jim

You know those builders who keep promising they’ll turn up and fix it on Tuesday but never do, because, so it’ll be next week hen

Cowboy builders we call them, what do we call the Tories or Labour then

Today Theresa May made a statement, if you didn’t see it or hear it it was the same one she’s been making for nearly three years promising a vote next Tuesday

CameronB Brodie

Giving Goose
I’m not making this stuff up. 🙂

Recognizing Moral Identity as a Cultural Construct

Abstract

Current research on moral identity shows that moral identity predicts moral action in Western cultures but not in non-Western cultures. The present paper argues that this may be due to the fact that the concept of moral identity is culturally biased. In order to remedy this situation, we argue that researchers should broaden their scopes of inquiry by adding a cultural lens to their studies of moral identity. This change is important because although some concept of moral identity likely exists in all cultures, it may function in different ways and at different levels in each place.

We propose that moral identity is a context-dependent construct tied to varying social and cultural obligations. We argue that Western moral identity stresses an individually oriented morality, whereas, people from Eastern cultures consider a highly moral person to be societally oriented. We conclude by discussing the implications of this view for future research.

Keywords: identity, culture, Western and Eastern, morality, social context

link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Daisy Walker

O/t there from Kirsty Hughes Twitter account
Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon

‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’

What happened to the hard won legal judgement and option to Cancel Brexit? Where has it gone? Why is it no longer mentioned, even by the SNP, as an option?

Is it because the SNP have no way to get it back on the schedule within WM for MP’s to vote on it? And if so, why are they not shouting it from the roof tops for the other parties/MP’s to get it back on the plate.

Is this what the SNP at WM is now campaigning for – a different Brexit Deal and an extension to A 50?

I’m not being flippant, I really want to know. The legal battle to enable a Brexit Cancel was a huge victory… and now its just been quietly dropped, never to be mentioned again.

And Labour – do I have this right.. if the HoP Vote to Pass TM’s deal, they will insist on a PV to ratify it.

If HoC does not vote to pass TM’s deal (and they will likely abstain on it)… No Deal is still the default position and re a PV on this set of circumstances…. no pressure from Labour for another PV at all.

An extension to 1/6/19 is entirely possible, but unless we take part in the May EU elections, and sit in the EU Parliament, after 1/6/19 it cannot be extended without great difficulty, unless UK MEP’s are still contributing within.

orri

There already are laws of “perjury”. It’s libel/slander/defamation.

In fact those are even stricter as the one making the claims have to prove they told the truth. Being honestly mistaken might mitigate the offence.

In this case she obviously had an idea of what she was saying. Knows the implications of what a public denouncement are. Has been shown to be wrong. Chooses not remove the offending accusation.

It may be that even the limited version of parliamentary immunity has gone to the heads of some MSPs who forget it’s limits and feel able to attack private individuals on a public platform.

OTOH there might be a benefit to this if it prevents public displays of support for either YES or NO in some workplaces come indyref2. So a fine and a bit of humiliation might be seen as worth a risk to disguise which way the wind blows.

call me dave

@Daisy Walker

The PM mentioned ‘or No Brexit’ in her little list in the News today in HoC.

So it is still a dot vanishing on the distant horizon.

O/T
New Scottish tv channel to show INDI-REF 2014 in a big programme soon I was hearing. No fear at PQ: That should turn out well 🙁

galamcennalath

Lying, why take the risk? You could be caught out and once branded a liar your credibility is shot forever.

Either …

You are a fool and haven’t thought through the likely repercussions.

… or …

You believe the gains and benefits outweigh the risks.

So why is there so much lying in BritNat politics? TBH it has to be a bit of both of the above.

There are a lot of ignorant and stupid politicians who open their mouths before engaging their brains. However, I also think there are calculating liars. Take the Leave campaign at EURef, basically a string of lies.

And what of Marra? Ok, not the brightest, but why does she habitually leave her lies in display? I suggest that’s a calculated risk. We see them and call her out, but those lies aren’t aimed as us, are they? The people they are aimed at may believe them so no advantage in deleting them. The longer they stand, the more of the target audience are exposed to them. I think that’s a common approach – if a lie is told with intent to sway a particular group, then the more of that group which see it the better. We, the enemy, those who see the world through different eyes, our opinion doesn’t matter to the liars.

Gullaneno4

SLAB politicians remind me of west coast deck chair day rental operators patiently waiting for The Waverly to disgorge 900 day trippers excited to be seated on a windy beach for 4 hours.

Stravaiger

@Daisy Walker

TM has successfully run the clock down so far that No Deal is a virtual certainty. Job done. Quelle surprise.

As for the rest, I’d just say best not to rule anything out and be prepared for all eventualities.

CameronB Brodie

And here’s a biopsychosocial model of health view of moral identity and human behaviour.

The Bio-Psycho-Social Model Of Human Behavior
link to mentalhelp.net

Bio-Psycho Social-Spiritual Model
link to med.unr.edu

MORAL IDENTITY AND MEANING IN LIFE
link to philarchive.org

Cactus

“Let’s all LAUGH at Marra, let’s all laugh at Marra…

HA-HA-ha-ha, ha-ha-HA-HA”
link to youtube.com (in the conga)

Notice Billy Mitchell in the background wearing his TIGger suit.

Hava Nagila!

defo

Here today, gone the Marra.

CameronB Brodie

And here’s a human agency view of moral identity.

Moral Agency, Identity and Narrative in Moral Development

ABSTRACT

Paspupathi and Wainryb’s conception of narrative moral agency is discussed in terms of its contribution to the moral development literature. After noting how the authors position the new construct within the field, and its successful critique of domains, social intuitions and identity, I examine its understanding of both agency and morality, and suggest that the construct cannot dispense with a conception of moral self-identity. I conclude that narrative moral agency will have a generative effect on research and that it represents the leading edge of a new field of moral development that will by necessity be broadly integrative with other domains of developmental and psychological science.

link to www3.nd.edu

The Concept of Self-Identity and Moral Conflicts
link to hrcak.srce.hr

Virtue in Organizations: Moral Identity as a Foundation for Moral Agency
link to journals.sagepub.com

Baldeagle58

O/T I know, but this is why Broadcasting needs to be Devolved to the Scottish Parliament. We don’t need another London based ‘Breakfast show’. Scottish shows being taken off the air so that Smooth and Capital can try to compete with BBC Radio 1 & 2…..

link to thenational.scot

chicmac

Orri
Those are not perjury-type laws, they are vehicles for civil action for damages and reputation clearing by the traduced body in pursuit.

I’m talking about criminal class law against any pertinent statement of ‘fact’ made by the elected representative on a public forum other than parliament which was known by them to be untrue.

It is not dependent on any alleged victim making the claim but is an infringement of a general criminal law pertaining to elected representatives which the police may pursue themselves or when brought to their attention.

It is to be hoped that the mere existence of such a possibility would greatly modify the approach to making public pronouncements outwith parliament for many of our elected representatives rather than result in a great many convictions.

The object, after all, is to improve the level of veracity exercised by those we elect and hence enhance democracy and justice.

It is also in the elected representatives long term interest, whether they realise it or not, because as things stand, democracy is in crisis mainly because most of the electorate are now in a position where they believe little of what they here from their elected representatives.

ronnie anderson

Its down to SNHS Tayside to protect their employee’s from deliberate smears/ accusations that would impact on that persons ability to do his/her job all the more so when its a Public official Msp making that accusation & further to that persist in that accusation by not removing that accusation from her Twitter feed once its pointed out to her her claims have no basis .

As i said above in respect of SNHS Tayside , Dr Walker should take this matter head on & take legal action to protect his name & complain to Twitter to have her account removed/suspended.

sinky

As well as publicizing and passing around tomorrow’s The National article on the McCrone Papers it is worth copying this article from The Telegraph published only in England on 14 January !!

OUR oil is the best bargaining chip the UK has and only way they can save their economy after a disastrous Brexit!!! Now why would they not have published that in Scotland?!

Click to enlarge. link to t.co
(link to twitter.com)

jfngw

@Baldeagle58

Smooth Radio has been dire since it was taken over by Global, just basically a very restricted playlist with little else. I only listened in the morning because of John McCauley, I’ll probably just delete from my stored channels now.

Radio is pretty much a desert now, either continuous playing of their small playlist (can I take any more ABBA), or talk shows that want controversy. Just imagine that Jeremy Vine might be the best choice available, yep, radio is that bad.

Ian Brotherhood

Wee reminder that the ‘Friends of Wings’ gathering is on Saturday March 2nd, in Dows Bar, Dundas St, Glasgow (at Queen St station) from 6-ish until closing time, the function room upstairs.

We are bringing our own (cold) food and Jock Scot (YouChoob) will be DJing. Usual raffle, please bring prizes if you can – if you haven’t already said you’ll be there, please do so via off-topic link to wingsoverscotland.com so we can keep abreast of numbers (currently approx 50 confirmed).

(There is no wheelchair access for upstairs so we will also be using the main downstairs bar. Some folk are arriving early, so please gather downstairs until the function room is staffed.)

jockmcx

Had the misfortune some years ago to work with a compulsive
liar.Luckily i was given a nod by the guy whom i replaced
so i was wary from the start.

When i called the guy out on one of his tales he would try
to laugh it off as a misunderstanding.

These people are dangerouse,i eventually realized lying
was a way of life to the guy,i mean he would stick a
little spin into the simplest everyday conversation.

He was trying to manipulate everybody and every situation
to his own advantage,eventually when someone higher up
cottoned on to him he attempted to get that person into
bother but made an arse of it getting himself sacked and
was lucky the police were not involved.

An enlightening experience…so beware they’re not just
in politics.

Jack Murphy

Getting away from the Marra story for a moment here’s a Good News item this afternoon:

More school leavers have five Highers.

BBC Scotland Archived
link to archive.is

mr thms

Daisy Walker @ 2:29 pm

“Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon

‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’”

Should the UK participate in the election of MEPs for the Parliament of the European Union, as a result of a vote to extend Article 50 it would probably have to rely on the votes of the Tory and Labour MPs who resigned.

I have always thought the Scottish and EU referendums were linked, and therefore the Scotland Act 2016 and EU Withdrawal Act 2018 are linked. That their purpose was to facilitate down the line, the implementation of the Treaty of Lisbon, the re-unification of Ireland, an independent Scotland, special arrangements for London, and the internal enlargement of the European Union.

Sarah

@chicmac re a law against lying by elected councillors/MPs/MSPs.

Advertisers can only say things that are legal, decent and truthful yet “political lies” e.g. Alastair Carmichael, everything TM or any Brexiteer/ERG person says, is not illegal.

I agree with you – a law must be passed to change the rules so elected politicians are NOT allowed to get away with lies, deceit and manipulation.

Golfnut

@ Chicmac and Orri.

I’ve said more than once that the Yes movement should be on the streets with a petition demanding a Judicial review on what charges can be brought against Politicians who lie, mislead, misrepresent with the intention of subverting the constitutional process. It should include the media and civil service.

yesindyref2

OT
Radio. I only listen during the night when I’m working at my workbench, dance a bit to keep the feet going and legs from seizing up but that’s another story. Anyways, the ads are very repetitive, half are public announcement things like recruiting for the forces, or “I have bills to pay I work all day I have bills to …” by which time I’ve run over to the radio (good for the circulation) and shut the damn thing off. That ad must cause suicides amongst the desperate and should be prosecuted in the intersts of publi order.

But the “DJ” is pre-recorded on most channels, same stuff time after time. Radio is struggling. The news is mostly SKY news and hevaily London and England-centric, England having won their first two rugby matches by blah blah lost against Wales. And about 3 seconds about Scotland. Hello, Wales beat England, they humped them.

You get a little Scottish news, very little. And even a few of the ads aren’t really relevant to Scotland.

Shame for the DJs all the same, vote YES next time.

Dr Jim

How come the brand new BBC Scottish dedicated to Scotland channel is really just BBC2

Only dedicated sometimes then

Abulhaq

The constitutionalists in the National party have had a long run. Increasingly it is becoming evident that Scottish Unionists will not relax their stranglehold unless significant pressure is brought to bear. Backed by the resources of the British State, Unionism would rather see Scotland a desert within than prosper outside. Past masters at ‘black propaganda’, the Brits have never gone voluntarily.
Dissing and lying are of course part of that ‘initiative’. Fighting dirty should not be their prerogative alone.

Capella

@ CameronB Brodie – since you’re here – I read the articles you linked to on Tacitus and his ethnography. Whilst it is inevitable that historians look through their own biased cultural lens, I don’t think Tacitus was worse than others. He was, after all, a Roman.

The H Paul Brown article hunts for examples of anti-semitism in Tacitus. Not surprising considering Rome famously ruled Judea with a rod of iron. But the Romans were equally cruel to everyone else they conquered.

Ellen O’Gorman is talking to insiders. I’m not familiar with the finer points of historiography so her paper remains a riddle wrapped in an enigma to me.

The Toswell paper is interesting though focused only on Anglo-Saxon England. he does concede that Tacitus got information from retired generals and merchants to fill out local colour. No one knows whether he personally visited Germania but he could have.

Again – not directly relevant to us sitting here in Caledonia. Except that it is possible that he spoke to retired generals and merchants from the North Britain campaigns as well. So could have heard about Calgacus and his famous speech from a local source.

Interesting links for history anoraks.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

yesindyref2

@Dr Jim
It only broadcasts itself between 7pm and 12 I think it is. I guess it just automatically skips over to BBC2 the rest of the time rather than showing a blank screen or test card!

Liz g

chicmac @ 3.41
Wouldn’t it be easier to do it the other way round?
Make lying in Holyrood the action that’s punished.
That way we get to build trust that doesn’t depend on any media.
If politicians say something outside Holyrood we can assume it’s just rubbish.
But if it’s important then we can have them asked about it in Holyrood, where they are as bound to tell the truth as they would be in a Court.
Although in this instance Marta could say that she was only mistaken… We could also have any Mistake admission in Holyrood Have to be apologised for and corrected on the platform on which it was made!
This could also be put in place a lot faster than sorting out the media (who are the enabling the lies to do their damage) in Indy Scotland.
I can’t see any public objection to one of the first things Holyrood does at the point of Indy is to insist on Honesty in our Parliament and define the consequences for being caught lying.

Robert J. Sutherland

orri @ 14:34:

There already are laws of “perjury”. It’s libel/slander/defamation.

Indeed there are, though it would be up to the traduced person to institute a civil action (as Stu has over another NorthBritLab dummy). Not everyone has the wherewithal, of course, nor the time & willingness to endure all the necessary bother.

But Marra puts herself in serious legal jeopardy by maintaining the tweets. It’s one thing to claim an innocent mistake, quite another to continue a blatant lie after an official judgement to the contrary.

One of these days one of these professional liars will go too far and get a well-merited comeuppance.

Luigi

If that woman is not careful, people in Dundee may start wearing “JM IS A LIAR” badges. 🙂

Chick McGregor

Liz G

It is the lies outwith parliament which is the main thing which needs to be addressed regarding saving democracy.

Within parliament, there should and are rules regarding misleading the parliament on matters of fact.

However, in the interests of democracy, elected members must be able to ask questions and make accusations within the parliament based on nothing more than hearsay or interpretation because often the substantive evidence is not available and without the threat of civil action.

So pretty much the opposite of your suggestion. Sorry. 🙁

CameronB Brodie

Capella
Thanks for taking the interest. I’m certainly no expert on Tacitus and only really came in to contact with him through the study of ethnography, ideology and their interaction.

Ethnography and ideology: The politics of cultural representation
link to tandfonline.com

Rhetoric and the Authority of Ethnography “Postmodernism” and the Social Reproduction of Text
link to journals.uchicago.edu

Mapping Conceptual Worlds: Using Interpretive Ethnography to Explore Knowledge-Making in a Professional Community
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org

Dr Jim

Yesindyref2

So they broadcast the Scottish stuff for 5 hours out of 24 and charge us over 30million quid for calling it the new dedicated Scottish channel

Mibbees it’s the buttons on my head that won’t fasten right that’s causing my brain to leak out but that doesn’t sound like dedicated or 30million quids worth to me

Dr Jim

Scotland in Union says about the McCrone report the UK couldn’t have stolen Scotlands oil because Scotland wasn’t independent and they didn’t conceal the information they just didn’t release it because it was UK business and UK oil so none of Scotlands business

Mull that over for a minute

Petra

Jenny Marra contributes greatly to Labour going down the stank. Keep it up Jenny.

……………………….

Daisy Walker says at 2:29 pm – ”O/t there from Kirsty Hughes Twitter account. Tweet from Nicola Sturgeon. ‘Commons now has clear opportunity to (a) vote down PM’s bad deal (b) vote down no deal and (c) vote for extension long enough to allow new referendum. Will it take it?’ What happened to the hard won legal judgement and option to Cancel Brexit? Where has it gone? Why is it no longer mentioned, even by the SNP, as an option?”…

Big T has stated, today, that she will put her (lousy) deal to the vote by the 12th March. If that doesn’t get through, fails, MP’s will then be offered 2 separate votes. Firstly on the following day MP’s will get to vote on the No deal Brexit and secondly if that fails MP’s will then get to vote before the 14th March on requesting an extension.

I would imagine that during the extension period, and it looks as though this is what the majority want, a people’s vote will be held and Big T also stated today that in that case Remain is on the cards (or words to that effect).

I reckon that’s what Nicola Sturgeon is referring to at her point ‘C’ …. new referendum. She’ll have no idea at this point in time if Big T’s deal will get through, if No deal will be taken off of the table or if Big T will stick to her word re. the people’s vote options (remain?) or not, so can’t include that on her ABC list.

Jack collatin

From her much more famous and productive uncle, ‘Michael:-
“Ma feet micht be big but the insects are safe

They’ll never get stood on by me”

“Naeb’dy would notice that I wasnae there
If I didnae come hame for ma tea…”

She is the evil New Conservative spawn of Blair and Brown.
A political failure who is handed a seat on the Red Tory Gravy Train as a ‘List’ MSP.
First job in Independent Scotland?
Get rid of the D’Honte corrupt electoral system.
We have a Chamber half filled with Red Blue and Yellow Tory Nobodies, whose job is to gum up the works by lies, threats and bullying.
No surprise that it is reported that she married old Brit Nat money, allegedly, but not by me.
I can’t afford an Island of Lawyers.
We are champing at the bit now.

CameronB Brodie

re. Scotland in Union. They are British nationalists, so do not value Scotland or it’s culture as being equal to their moral identity.

Ethnographies of hegemony: Introduction
link to researchgate.net

The Concept of Cultural Hegemony: Problems and Possibilities
link to sites.evergreen.edu

Critical Ethnographies of Power and Hegemony
link to geography.rutgers.edu

K1

http://nationradio.scot

I’ve been enjoying nation radio in the car for a while, 96.3FM, I like that it’s mostly back to back music and the news reports are local to Glasgow and surrounding areas, very Scottish ‘feel’ to it and the news bulletins are short and straightforward, very little of that relentless banter nonsense, in fact never listened to the radio for that last decade or so as I couldn’t stand the exact same formatted pish and same old songs over and over again on repeat cycle, so far with this I’ve no complaints…pity it isn’t Scotland wide though.

Capella

When we turn on the TV, the radio, the internet etc we are flooded with images and narratives from other cultures. Yesterday morning the top BBC online news item was the Oscars. They were clearly hoping that “The Favourite” would win Best Picture and were seriously annoyed that “Green Book” won. British royalty and the Brits deserves to triumph, yes?

“Roma” missed out because it was a Netflix movie and Hollywood won’t reward a streaming service, or so we are told. Roma is Mexican and a great film IMO.

But why are we in Scotland being subjected to this Tinsel Town nonsense in the first place?

Because we have no cultural centre of our own. That space is occupied by the BBC. This pretend new channel will not fill the void.

The BBC has now signed a deal with Screen Scotland to produce more drama and factual content in Scotland.

The move means the BBC will commit to delivering three dramas, three comedies and three “high-impact” factual series from Scotland every year.

Director General Tony Hall announced the deal at the official launch of the BBC Scotland TV channel.

Why does that not fill me with hope?

link to bbc.co.uk

yesindyref2

@Dr Jim
Yup. Pretty shit isn’t it? It’s a con basically, the actual programs can be good but if anyone switches on during the day they get antiques road show.

yesindyref2

@Capella
Seems to me “national” i.e. UK TVm is increasingly being flooeded with Yank voices, even the ads. So while the UK is attempting to indoctriante Scotland into “British nation”, it’s also getting ready for being the 51st state.

Heart of Galloway

Peston’s take on May latest ‘pirouette’ to hand MPs a vote after March 12.

He rightly suggests this apparent volte-face is all about May manipulating dissent within Tory ranks for her own ends – and that the extreme Brexiteers are likely to be the winners.

What he doesn’t say is that May’s contortions have one primary aim – to thwart and break Scotland’s independence movement and bind our country fast inside her precious union.

link to facebook.com

john boy

Clyde 2 is another BritNat orientated radio station.

There news bulletins are like reading straight off of a Scottish Labour leaflet about SNP Bad bullshit.

The trick is to turn the news bulletins off before they start, then turn back a couple of minutes later.

The Yoons have their grubby fingers in every newsroom in Scotland.

yesindyref2

Won’t be long before MacDonalds will be advertising their Ken MacTucky Chicken Burgers for the authentic taste of American chlorinated finger-bleaching chicken, ken.

You wan that to go buddy?

john boy

Sky News just called Scotland, Wales and N Ireland regions.

They lumped us in with the regions of England.

Bastards.

Hamish100

john boy says:
26 February, 2019 at 6:02 pm
Clyde 2 is another BritNat orientated radio station.

If you dont use it their advertisers will reduce

john boy

If MPs vote to fuck up Brexit then be prepared for the EDL and all the rest of the right wing nutters to dawn their yellow jackets and take to the streets.

They will have similar riots to those we have saw in Paris.

john boy

Hamish

I like the music and don’t listen to their BritNat news bulletins.

Breeks


mr thms says:
26 February, 2019 at 4:11 pm
Daisy Walker @ 2:29 pm

…..Should the UK participate in the election of MEPs for the Parliament of the European Union, as a result of a vote to extend Article 50 it would probably have to rely on the votes of the Tory and Labour MPs who resigned.

I just don’t see it. I cannot see the EU allowing the UK to participate in EU elections, firstly because the UK is on the brink of leaving, but even more so because it provides the far right Brexiteer types with exposure and a platform to agitate disruption and disorder with European business and stability. Ask yourself the simple question… who do you expect the Little Englanders would vote in as MEP’s? Sincere Europhiles who want to engage constructively? Or foul mouthed disruptive rude boys like Farage and Johnson?

Extending Article 50 is not the UK’s prerogative. It’s not even the EU’s collective prerogative. It is the sovereign prerogative of each and every individual EU state, and a single sovereign veto from one of them is all it will take for the lights to go out on March 29th.

By all means listen to the dialogue, be constructive, speculate to your hearts content, but don’t take your eye off the ball. The Article 50 deadline is an explicit unambiguous default protocol defined in the Lisbon Treaty. The two year timeframe for Article 50 negotiations formally expires, with or without agreement, and the cut off kicks in.

Even to change that protocol will require the same agreement between individual member states, each with the same right of veto. Do you see anybody in Europe currently drawing up formal proposals to be distributed amongst EU governments with a view to making a ad hoc exception to the Lisbon Treaty?

31 days, 4 hours…. It’s actually the only red line there is. It’s written down in a ratified Treaty, and extant.

sandy

Oh, oh. john boy on the loose.

Take heed, lad, three strikes & your out. Hammer will fall.

Essexexile

May doesn’t need to kick the can any further. She’s almost there. Today’s exercise was all about pretending there could be an extension. There won’t be, and it wouldn’t make any difference if there was.
Nicola will wait for the WM votes at least but she could fire the starting pistol now. We are in the zone.

Lenny Hartley

Scottish nine , aint watched it and dont intend too, on misreporting Scotland tonight, a plug for the Scottish nine and the presenter says they would be look8ng at the tensions of the Tiny state of Kashmir! Eh,? by area its more than double the size of England and has a population of 12.5 million, bigger than many European Nations, typical MSM ignorance and lies.

Thepnr

An extension to Article 50 is a certainty, no ifs no buts.

Fergus Green

Euro elections in May 2019, assuming we are still in the EU, are difficult to predict. Historically, voter turnout at these elections has been low, to the benefit of UKIP and other fringe groups who are capable of getting their vote out. That’s why Coburn sneaked in in Scotland, on a tiny fraction of the proportional representation vote.

How about we make an actual effort this time and get the SNP or Green vote out in force? It may be temporary or short-lived but then again, it may be otherwise. A strong pro-Indy vote from Scotland would be a powerful statement.

Fergus Green

Thepnr 7.01

Indeed, an extension to Article 50 now looks inevitable and I would predict an extension to the extension.

All this makes the timing if Indy Ref 2 as complex as ever and this underpins the wisdom displayed by Nicola in not calling it until there is clarity over Brexit. What is the point in showing your hand and then giving WM the opportunity to pull the rug out from under you?

Thepnr

@Fergus Green

“A strong pro-Indy vote from Scotland would be a powerful statement.”

Agreed, as Ian Blackford made clear to the PM today she would be best selecting candidates for the EU elections just as the SNP are doing. Why? There is every chance the the UK will be taking part in those elections.

If we do then we must support the SNP by getting the vote out and getting all supporters of Independence up for this. It will send a powerful megasea to both Westminster and the EU if we can maximise our vote and win as many seats as we can.

Scot Finlayson

@chicmac,

Perjury is not ,in itself, an offence,

Andy Coulson was proven to have lied in court in the Tommy Sheridan case, but the judge (David Spencer Burns, Lord Burns ) ruled that the lie had no bearing on the outcome of the trial,

so,it is not against the law to lie under oath unless the judge decides it is against the law,

the law in Scotland is as corrupt as the media.

CameronB Brodie

The law is normatively biased, it defends the culture that it originates from. This is a global reality that New Natural Law aims to resolve.

Lenny Hartley

Thenpr, There is no certainty that the EU27 will agree to an extension , yes the UK can ask for a short extension up until the end of June , there is no guarantee it will be agreed by all EU27 countries.

Jack collatin

Brendan Rogers is to make a £25 million for Tierney and MacGregor!

Well, I can type sensational shit like the Brit Nat Liars.
BBC Scotland reporting Scotland free of ‘balance’ now that they have launched the Broadcaster’s equivalent ot he hopelessly underfunded National, headlined with the NHS/SNP shite, with big roly poly Miles Briggs and his Red Tory Collaborator Monica Lennon ‘starring’ tearing into the Bad SNP.
70,000 patients were not seen within waiting time targets in a year, and it was pigeon droppings and contaminated water that killed the babies, according to BBC Britland’s voiceover.
Glenn Campbell’s still now outside WM and NO Deal apparently would see Scotland’s economy dip by 8% over 15 years, and that’s all.
No 100,000 losing their jobs on BBC Pacific Quay.
Jackie Bird get smarmier and More cooing by the day.
Will any viewer watch BBC Jockland?
Why would we?
Steven Gerrard opens a packet of crisps! The real news that sell ‘papers and FTP tee shirts.
Christ, we are on the threshold of chaos and Jackie Bird insults our NHS staff with nonsense figures and half facts.

robbo

Regarding EU elections. I’ve been back here 20 years and never ever had any leaflets forms or voting lit through my door- fact.. Do you have to be in the lodge to get any info? How else did a rat like Coburn get elected?

Petra

@ Dr Jim says at 5:18 pm – ”Yesindyref2 – So they broadcast the Scottish stuff for 5 hours out of 24 and charge us over 30million quid for calling it the new dedicated Scottish channel. Mibbees it’s the buttons on my head that won’t fasten right that’s causing my brain to leak out but that doesn’t sound like dedicated or 30million quids worth to me.”

There was a really interesting 3 page article in the Sunday National about this new channel Dr Jim. Just about everyone who made comment reckoned that £32 million (£19 million of that new money) was a ridiculous amount of money and with that alone was bound to fail.

Donalda MacKinnon of course said it was adequate, however that Debate Night, unlike Question Time, won’t travel around the country but rather will be based in Edinburgh due to budgetary restraints.”

”Half of the new channel will be dedicated to new programmes – the rest will be repeats.”

Some comments stood out for me such as, ”a 2009 study by the Scottish Broadcasting Commission established by Alex Salmond estimated that a distinct channel would need around £75million.”

David Hutchison, Prof in Media Policy at Cale Uni, stated that ”a new channel, not a BBC channel, would cost £70 million plus. Even £70 million would impose limits on what could be done, especially with drama. So what’s odd here is that the budget is just over £30 million.”

Neil Blane, Prof Emeritus at Stirling Uni said, ”in the Irish Republic you have 5/6 television stations located in Dublin – with a lot of collateral economic spin off…. There’s a lot of very good Scottish-originated programming people don’t know is Scottish. We have cultural talent all over the country, it’s inconceivable this could fail with the right budget. My fear is that people don’t understand this isn’t a level playing field.”

Brenda O’Hara SNP MP and Former TV Producer stated, – ”It’s also great to see my hugely respected, former STV colleague Martin Geissler back working in Scotland. And the return of the excellent James Cook certainly augurs well for the standard of news journalism on the new channel…. and ..

”From my own experience of twenty years working in television production, I just cannot see how a channel can produce quality television with an annual (non-news) programme making budget of £23million (news programme £7 million). By my reckoning the average hourly spend contributed by the BBC for the new channel will be around £25,000….. ”To put that figure in perspective, on the last series I made for the BBC One at Pacific Quay, my spend was £220,000 an hour … and that was ten years ago…

”When the Director General appeared in front of the Select Committee, I told him bluntly that I believed that this new channel was born to fail (due to inadequate funding). I sincerely hope I’m proved wrong.”

robbo

Jack collatin says:
26 February, 2019 at 7:36 pm
Brendan Rogers is to make a £25 million for Tierney and MacGregor!

Aye that wull be rite Jack!

Considering the shite that goes for that consistently down there in their ceespit

It’ll will need to be 50 mil alone for Tierney or they can fuck off!

Thepnr

@Lenny Hartley

You’re right of course in that the UK needs the agreement of the EU 27 for an extension. However I’m guessing that Donald Tusk doesn’t see much problem in getting when yesterday he said seeking an extension would be the “rational” thing to do.:

“There is no majority in the House of Commons to approve a deal. We will face an alternative: a chaotic Brexit, or extension.”

Donald Tusk: article 50 extension would be a ‘rational solution’ – video

link to theguardian.com

john boy

Sandy

Who are you fuckin talkin to?

Arse.

Fergus Green

@Thepnr 7.17
Realistically SNP or SNP/Green can only win 3 out of 6 seats under PR, but the powerful message would be in the size of the vote. Every vote for the pro-Indy parties can be seen as as a vote for Scotland and for Europe.

john boy

Too many wee generals.

galamcennalath

CameronB Brodie says:

Scotland in Union. They are British nationalists, so do not value Scotland or it’s culture as being equal to their moral identity.

Yup. They genuinely just don’t identify with Scotland as a nation and country. Certainly not their nation and nationality. To them it’s just a region of their imagined makey-up country. They literally see Scotland in the same way as they see Yorkshire, and often say so!

The aspect which puzzles me is what is their ‘country’? For me, I see folks with an affinity to a Greater England. There never was a Union, a confederation with a small ‘c, it’s a myth.

Dr Jim

Ma tether’s chokin me

Iain mhor

@Bob Mack 10:01am

Wheesht about the secret lizard beings, ye’ll wake @kangaroo up!

galamcennalath

Thepnr says:

EU elections …. we must support the SNP by getting the vote out and getting all supporters of Independence up for this.

If we get that far, then we need a big turnout and pro Indy MEPs.

Another scenario is an EURef2. It is possible a HoC majority could be reached for May’s WA if there is an amendment enabling a referendum. The assumption seems to be that Remain would win, but in a fight between May’s ‘deal’ and Remain, I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of effort has been put into selling the WA as soft, when it is in fact blind.

England’s electorate could vote for May’s ‘deal’ and Scotland vote Remain. That Scottish decision needs to be rock solid.

And a third less likely (IMO) possibility is a GE.

In all of these possibilities we need a high turn out and solid indisputable statement of the will of the Scottish people.

Robert J. Sutherland

I have a dfferent take on May’s “pirouette”, which I see as a little bit of calculated flummery to keep her party from fragmenting further while relentlessly taking us another step closer to the brink. Which of course has been her basic strategy all along.

The aim being to avoid any extension by convincing the Tory (and Labour) Leaver radicals that any extension makes a (for them) hated PV and an eventual Remain turnaround ever more likely, so they had better choose her “deal” instead.

It’s no longer the former attempt to arm-twist the EU27 into a better deal, because that ploy never had a snowball in hell’s chance. Her latest manoevre instead ups the ante for those holding out for a “pure” no-deal leave.

And the more that popular support grows within the UK for a PV, the more pressure that gives her on the “no-dealers”.

I’m inclined to believe that when the chips are down in mid-March, in the face of the available choices, sufficient of the ConLab rebels will cave, and May will have her way.

We had better be prepared.

Petra

I totally agree with you Thepnr. There will be an extension and Junker himself has said, just last week, that NO ONE in Europe would oppose an extension to the Brexit talks. I would imagine that if anyone knows what’s going on in the EU it’s him. The last thing that anyone needs right now is a No Deal Brexit and that includes EU countries taking into account that the EU is facing MANY challenges. It’s not exactly hunky dory over there right now either.

link to uk.reuters.com

John Alexander Ferguson

Breeks, I know it is hard to tell these days, but your list is all guys. Numpties yes but women no. I suppose being the advanced age I am, I expect a higher standard from women. It’s what I was used to.

Meg merrilees

Daisy

quote from T May today :
Mrs May said an extension “cannot take no deal off the table”, adding: “The only way to do that is to revoke Article 50, which I shall not do, or agree a deal.”

Also read a tweet of Robert Peston saying….

… Gavin Shuker told me that he and Chuka Umunna and others MPs still in the Labour Party made an offer to the PM after she lost the meaningful Brexit vote in January that they would support her in office for at least a year and vote for her Brexit deal if she pledged to put that deal to the people in a referendum.
Apparently the de facto deputy PM David Lidington and the chancellor Philip
Hammond seemed warmer to this idea than the PM.
But Heidi Allen, one of the Tory defectors, told me – only half jokingly – that the 11 MPs in The Independence Group would offer their own confidence and supply arrangement to the PM, to replace the semi-estranged 10 Northern Ireland MPs of the DUP and allow her to govern, if she went for just that plan to put her Brexit proposal to the people.
And by the way the PM can trust The Independence Group to keep her in office. Because, as Allen confirmed, the last thing they want is an election in the next year – because they are a million miles from being a proper party with policies and an institutional structure.

galamcennalath

Just thinking … well, getting depressed really,

With Scotland’s proportionally greater agriculture and food industries and our exports, we will be hit particularly badly by a hard Brexit. And ‘no deal’ would be a dreadful disaster.

This could be like the Thatcher Era deindustrialisation, the Major Era recession, and the Blair/Brown Era banking crisis ALL AT ONCE.

Even those of us who experienced each it turn cannot really can’t get our heads round the scale of the impending carnage. Up to 10% knocked off Scotland’s economy.

We need to get into the life boat!

Scot Finlayson

Tacitus was 27 years old when the battle of Mons Graupius happened,

The General at Mons Graupius ,Agricola, would have been 43,

Agricola`s daughter married Tacitus,

apart from talking to the general of the Roman army at Mons Graupius, Tacitus would also have first hand accounts from many of the soldiers that were actually involved in the fighting,

he would have been ridiculed by soldiers that were there if he had made the whole thing up or embellished it too much,

Caledonia had a highly sophisticated culture before the Romans turned up,

Calgacus was right about the Romans,

they made a desert and called it peace.

yesindyref2

@Jack Collatin:

Jackie Bird get smarmier and More cooing by the day.
Will any viewer watch BBC Jockland?
Why would we?

Your answer is in your first sentence – no Jackie Bird!

(if you mean the new channel)

Lenny Hartley

Scot Finlatson, imho there never was a battle at or called Mons Graupias, it was/is fake news.
Despite extensive research over a long period nobody has every found a battle site never mind the remains of 10,000 defeated Caledonians.

Hamish100

From the Herald
“RICHARD Leonard has said he would prefer a Labour Brexit to a second referendum with Remain on the ballot, despite 62 per cent of Scots voting to stay in the EU. ”

Yip we can rely on Labour to self harm at any opportunity. Problem is they also want Scotland to be harmed as they do not care. England’s needs comes first and last

mr thms

Re the very low budget for the new BBC Scotland channel. While the amount allocated is just £32 million per year. The chances of broadcasting being devolved and/or independence in the near future are very good. It would mean all of the tv licence fee raised in Scotland will be spent in Scotland.

john boy

It’s a dugs breakfast.

Robert Peffers

@Lenny Hartley says: 26 February, 2019 at 8:52 pm:

” … Despite extensive research over a long period nobody has every found a battle site never mind the remains of 10,000 defeated Caledonians.”

And there you have the truth of the matter – it was/is fake news and the BBC weren’t even invented in those days.

Scot Finlayson

@Lenny Hartley,

are you saying Tacitus made the whole battle/speech up when there would have been many living witnesses that could easily denounce and embarrass Agricola,

as for not finding the battlefield,they do not know where the battlefield for Boudica`s eventual defeat was,

did that also not happen `cause they couldn`t find the battlefield,

they do not know the exact location of the battle of Bannockburn,

did that also not happen `cause they couldn`t find the battlefield.

Hastings exact battlefield nobody knows.

Lenny Hartley

Scot Finlayson, you believe your faery stories if you want too, do you believe in talking snakes by any chance ?

CameronB Brodie

re. the cultural hegemony Westminster is attempting to foist on Scotland. Here’s some Philosophical Realism and International Relations Theory on the subject.

III: CULTURAL DOMINATION: GRAMSCI MEETS BOURDIEU
link to sites.evergreen.edu

Ideology, Hegemony, Discourse:
A Critical Review of Theories of Knowledge and Power

link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org

Understanding “Hegemony” in International Relations Theories
link to projekter.aau.dk

Capella

Mons Graupius is thought to be Bennachie. The state of Scottish archaeology is as partial as Scottish history. You won’t find remains unless you actually look.

mr thms

#galamcennalath @ 8:38pm

“With Scotland’s proportionally greater agriculture and food industries and our exports, we will be hit particularly badly by a hard Brexit. And ‘no deal’ would be a dreadful disaster.”

I have read that under the Treaty of Lisbon the UK would not be able to negotiate special arrangements for Scotland, Northern Ireland or London. Strange as it may seem, it makes sense for the UK to leave the EU without a deal and have a ‘framework’ for the current set up and then negotiate for special arrangements for the devolved governments and England.

Thepnr

The absolute mess that both Theresa may and Jeremy Corbyn have gotten themselves in over Brexit is laughable but much worse it is utterly pathetic.

These two, the Prime Minister and leader of the opposition have totally neglected their duty of putting the well being of the electorate and businesses in the UK first and instead chosen the narrow minded interests of small segments of their individual parties.

Here’s the mental part, if May’s deal or some version of it cannot be approved in Westminster and their is no stomach for No deal then where does that leave them?

May herself has said it many time, her deal, no deal or no Brexit. I think she’s right and since the first two are looking more and more unlikely then you’re only left with no Brexit.

There is nowhere else to go that I can see so that can only come about under two scenario. Westminster revoke article 50 or remain win a second referendum.

What other options are there after ruling out no deal and May’s deal?

Petra

I used to like the Shetland programme, good storyline / seemed to me to be boosting tourism, but following the first episode of this 2019 series I said to my husband if ever there was a programme that would put you off of visiting Shetland this must be it. It’s all about people trafficking in Shetland and tonight they’ve moved on to Glasgow. Run down scenes, rooms full of trafficked people, big problem in Shetland / Glasgow / Scotland and so on. Maybe I’m becoming paranoid? Timing handy or what?

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

jfngw

Interesting to see the leader of British Labour in Scotland has stated that effectively Scotland should just do as it is told by England. England voted to leave so our vote is irrelevant.

This is what you get when you have a parties financed by another country in your parliament. What other country would allow this.

Brian Doonthetoon

Hi Capella at 9:23 pm.

You typed,
“Mons Graupius is thought to be Bennachie. The state of Scottish archaeology is as partial as Scottish history. You won’t find remains unless you actually look.”

This is from Wikipedia (I know!)

“Battle location

Considerable debate and analysis has been conducted regarding the battle location, with the locus of most of these sites spanning Perthshire to north of the River Dee, all in the northeast of Scotland.[10]
A number of authors have reckoned the battle to have occurred in the Grampian Mounth within sight of the North Sea. In particular, Roy,[11] Surenne,[12] Watt,[13] Hogan[14] and others have advanced notions that the high ground of the battle may have been Kempstone Hill, Megray Hill or other knolls near the Raedykes Roman Camp.

These sites in Aberdeenshire fit the historical descriptions of Tacitus and have also yielded archaeological finds related to Roman presence. In addition these points of high ground are proximate to the Elsick Mounth, an ancient trackway used by Romans and Caledonians for military manoeuvres.[14] Bennachie in Aberdeenshire, the Gask Ridge not far from Perth and Sutherland have also been suggested.[15][16][17] “

Now, given that the Romans had little success north of the Antonine Wall (9th Legion?), is it not surprising that the Romans could have won in battle in Aberdeenshire, hundreds of miles from their power base?

Capella

@ BDTT – thx – interesting range of possibilities. Now all we need to do is get the spades out!

I don’t think it unlikely that the Romans fought a long way from their main bases. They used ships to transport troops and supplies. They certainly navigated the Tay and called in at Dundee! Moray Firth too.

There are a line of Roman fort remains all the way up to Inverness. But they couldn’t hold these outposts. They hated deeply forested areas, like Caledonia. Unlike the British, they just couldn’t cut down the trees fast enough! Although I do believe reading that they felled a massive number of trees.

I can’t be bothered to search out all these references ATM so just relying on memory here. May do so later.

Wee Alex

Sky News interviewing politicians about voting to take no deal off the table.

They are oblivious to the reality .

No deal is the default, they can vote against it but if there is not a deal then all that is left is no deal.

I despair !!!!!!

TD

Thepnr at 9.31 pm

“What other options are there after ruling out no deal and May’s deal?”

I can think of a few:

1. May’s deal with amendments to the NI backstop gets through parliament – the so-called Brady amendment.
2. The UK government asks for and the EU agrees to an extension to Article 50. There is a whole raft of follow on options for this one.
3. Westminster votes to hold another referendum. If Remain win, the whole thing just goes away. If Leave win, then expect a no deal Brexit.

I could go on – there are many more options and sub-options. Each one seems very unlikely, as do May’s deal, no deal and no Brexit. But some option which is currently seen as unlikely will happen. The problem is we don’t know which one. No doubt when matters are resolved, the punditry will all be saying “That’s what I thought would happen all along.” Personally, I’m not making predictions – I’ve been caught out too often in recent times, so I’m keeping my own counsel.

Liz g

Petra @ 9.47
Just as an FYI … I haven’t got around to watching Shetland Yet!
May or may not mean anything:-)
The star of the show is “very “ one of us!!!
Jist sayin…

Robert J. Sutherland

Hamish100 @ 20:55,

There you go. Union sockpuppet reveals their thinking, free from the constraints of threats of defection from the cringe division. Labour paymasters want Brexit, not a PV or any other kind of “backsliding”.

Thepnr @ 21:31,

The plain fact is that there is no HoC majority for PV, let alone Remain, not now and not later. But there is a potential majority for May’s deal if she can rally sufficient of her dissenters and some Lab collaborators. And from recent votes in HoC, there clearly are a bunch of the latter.

The threat of eleventh-hour Brexit capitulation is real, and is clearly what May is still banking on.

Legerwood

Petra @ 9.47 PM

The Shetland TV series is only loosely based on the books by Ann Cleeves which were great and did have a fairly high body count. The TV series, even the current one, will not put people off visiting Shetland. Any location that features prominently in a TV series or film boosts Tourism.

The current series is about people trafficking which is certainly very much in the news. Given the nature of the subject you would expect scenes in run-down locations but there have also been just as many scenes of fairly up-market locations in both Shetland and, in tonight’s episode, Glasgow.

There were scenes in up-market restaurants/cafes and the scenes in the Kelvingrove Art Gallery certainly showed it to advantage.

Therefore on the whole it wont stop people going to Shetland or Glasgow. I can certainly recommend Shetland. We went there on holiday last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Petra

BBC News: Three Commons votes – 12th March Big T’s deal – if it doesn’t get through a vote on No Deal on the 13th – if that’s kicked out a vote on A50 extension on the 14th.

john boy

Wee Alex 10.18pm

Exactly Alex,,,that is what I have been saying.

They are playing with fire in trying to reverse the result of the Referendum.

mumsyhugs

Aye Petra – Douglas Henshall is very much one of us – and I saw him very neatly putting Good Morning Britain presenters in their place when they talked about the “Shetlands” rather than Shetland – nae ‘s’ as the islanders wouldn’t like that one little bit. He also, when asked, commented he would support independence until Scotland gets the government it voted for! Btw he’s also moved back to Glasgow from London 🙂

Robert J. Sutherland

john boy @ 22:32,

We see you, BritNat-Leaver false flag artist.

Cubby

STV News at Six tonight.

In their report on Education in Scotland they manage to report that there is too much extra work for teachers collecting data etc for management information purposes but also then report that there is no information on how curriculum for excellence is performing. Too much time collecting data but at the same time there is no data.

So there you have it a double decker dose of Scotgov/SNP bad – well done STV – trying hard to keep up with BBC levels of SNP baaaad.

Robert Peffers

@Robert J. Sutherland says: 26 February, 2019 at 10:43 pm:
” … john boy @ 22:32,
We see you, BritNat-Leaver false flag artist.”

Just think a wee bit, Robert. The style of this person’s comments is, to say the least, a wee puckle familiar. Now I wonder who it is it reminds me of?

Liz g

Here’s the thing I’ve been wondering!!
IF Westminster do go for an agreed extension to article 50..
Will this extension include the right to cancel article 50 as an automatic part of the extension?
Or will the right to cancel have to be tested in court again!

geeo

Petra says:

26 February, 2019 at 10:32 pm

BBC News: Three Commons votes – 12th March Big T’s deal – if it doesn’t get through a vote on No Deal on the 13th – if that’s kicked out a vote on A50 extension on the 14th.
……….

Obvious issue there, is that an extension to A.50 is not within treeza’s gift.

A cynic may say that this is treeza trying to waste another 2 weeks, without anyone on her case, then hey presto, EU says no extension and treeza blames EU 27 again.

john boy

Robert Sutherland

What the fuck is a BritNat leaver false flag.

I fuckin despair at some of the paranoia that hangs around Wings.

Creepy.

Ken Clark

@ Petra, 9:47

Hi, Petra. I wouldn’t be too concerned about the bleakness of the current Shetland episodes.

I’m a fan too, mostly because of it’s location, but it seems to be a much copied storyline at present. The Nordic Noir series have covered these issues, including Wallander. And who can forget the first series of France’s Spiral?

The Missing offshoot, Baptiste is equally bleak and God knows what the current Stranded storyline will do for Icelandic tourism.

Typically, the BBC jumped on the bandwagon. Safe and conservative as usual. You can imagine the meeting. “We need our own Nordic Noir.” “What about Shetland?” “It’s bleak and distant and they wear woollen jumpers.” The only surprise is that subtitles haven’t been added as standard.

Great timing for Ann Cleeves and a bit of respite from Oxford, London, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

As for Jenny Marra, her poisonous attitude doesn’t surprise me. It’s embarrassing watching her antics at Holyrood, especially the expression she wears at FMQ’s. Constantly swallowing or spitting bile isn’t a good look. 😉

geeo

@liz-g

I wondered the same about that point, as the judgement only seems to be concerning the ability to cancel unilaterally without penalty before and up until brexit day.

CameronB Brodie

IMHO, the Prime-minister is guilty of majoritarian abuse of constitutional power. If Westminster does not reassert it’s assumed soveriegnty, Britain is heading towards dictatorship.

CONSTITUTIONAL THEORY IN A NUTSHELL
ecollections.law.fiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1127&context=faculty_publications

john boy

There are some on here who have too much time on their hands.

As I have said,,, MPs are in danger of stirring up some serious civil unrest.

If they try to alter the result of the referendum.

That is not being controversial,,,that is just stating a fact

TD

Liz g at 10:50

If Article 50 is extended, the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50 during the extension period just as they can before March 29. This was made clear in the European court ruling.

Liz g

Robert J Sutherland @ 10.43
Aye we saw him as we saw jezza.
They just can’t stay away,we seem to fascinate them!

I’ve often wondered do stupid people know they’re stupid?
Tis a puzzle!

john boy

It is in the interest of Scottish Independence to have a fucked up No Deal hard Brexit.

We don’t want the can kicked down the road any longer.

Liz g

HE @ 10.59
Thanks TD,I had been speed reading through the information around the judgement and couldn’t remember seeing anything about it including the extension…

Liz g

Sorry TD it keeps changing you name

CameronB Brodie

john boy
Scotland doesn’t want any form of Brexit. Got that?

Liz g

John boy @ 11.01
That’s not what Nicola says, have you told her of your theory?

Liz g

Hey Cameron 🙂

Scot Finlayson

@Robert Peffers,

They have not found the exact battlefield of Bannockburn,

by your logic it did not happen,

pish.

Liz g

geeo @ 10.55
Presumably you’ve read TD @ 10 59’s answer?
I was reassured,but now I’m seeing you have the same concerns
I’m worried all over again.
I spent the whole time during the debate in Westminster waiting for someone to ask!!!
Hopefully we will get some one who will link to the right information???

Scot Finlayson

Battle of the Teutoburg Forest,

described by Tacitus,

they don`t know the exact location,

didn`t happen ?

Scot Finlayson

Battle of Agincourt,

Battlefield
The location of the battle is not precisely fixed in contemporary accounts,

Most authors believe it was fought in the narrow strip of open land formed between the woods of Tramecourt and Azincourt (close to the modern village of Azincourt),

However, the lack of archaeological evidence at this traditional site has led to suggestions it was fought to the west of Azincourt,

they don`t know,

didn`t happen ?

Bobp

Jfngw 9.53pm. No other country would allow politicians representing another countrys parties, to run their own country down. Any nation that had a modicum of respect for itself would run these carpetbaggers out of town.

Jeff

Agricola got the bombastic welcome home to Rome, which only happened if the army had defeated the enemy in battle?
So there was a battle….

Famous15

Now here is the Unionist Tory imperative: whatever the Brexit outcome make damned sure there is no red hand of Tory to blame so the SNP must be blamed .THE SNP MUST BE BLAMED. So the quiz question is: “Which subscriber to the Wings website is making damned sure the SNP will get the blame?”

Answers on a postcard,please.

For the rest of us who really do wish for independence,most of us will trust Nicola’s timing.I am glad it is not my decision as the toxic Tories are making it very difficult.

TD

Liz g

link to instituteforgovernment.org.uk

See paragraph headed “When could the UK revoke”

Petra

@ mumsyhugs / Liz …. Thanks for the info on Douglas Henshall. One of us? “One of us.” Sounds nice doesn’t it. Great stuff.

………………

@ Legerwood at 10:28pm … “2019 Shetland programme.”

Thanks for your thoughts on this Legerwood. I understand that the programmes have been loosely based on Ann Cleeves books, but as far as I can make out this 2019 series isn’t. And if it isn’t? Why not? Maybe I’m missing something here and have got this wrong? I’ll search a little more when I have the time.

As to the current programme itself I checked online to see if I’m alone in thinking that the storyline is fairly incredulous. Seems not. An International people trafficking ring operating on a remote island of around 22,000 people right under the nose of the Police? A car travelling along a road in the middle of nowhere doesn’t notice a car sitting in a lay-by from a mile off, etc, etc? I’ve travelled (and lived in the Outer Hebrides) all over every inhabitable island in Scotland and if there is one thing I’ve learned is that there’s not much goes on that the folks don’t know about. And as one example last year my husband and I had a problem with our very large motorhome at the supermarket in Barra which was undergoing ground works. Nearly ripped the undercarriage off. We travelled from island to island by ferry (loads of motorhomes everywhere) and when we boarded the ferry for Harris one of the employees said, “and you’ll be the folks who had the problem at the Co-op in Barra”, lol. News fairly gets around, eh?

And yes they showed upmarket areas of Glasgow but to my mind they couldn’t cancel out the overall picture / storyline of drugs, prostitution, people trafficking and very seedy places and imo if I didn’t know better, was a tourist, it would put me right off. Have second thoughts.

I also think it’s just the latest in a way of scaring the wits out of Scots who don’t want to see a rise in immigration. Another is the Asian wedding series on the new BBC channel. And when the time comes, Indyref2, they’ll make a meal out of Nicola Sturgeon promoting immigration. I’ll accept that I could be wrong of course.

Hamish100

johnny boy agent provocateur’s are easy to spot

Effijy

The Wee Crook Marra.

The wee crook Marra sat on a tree,
A wee crook Mara sat on a tree,
A wee crook sparra sat on a tree
Chirpin awa as blithe as could be.

Alang came the truth wi’a bow and an arra,
Alang came the truth wi’a bow and an arra,

The truth said: ‘I’ll get ye, ya wee crook Marra’
The truth wi’ the arra let fly at wee Jenny Marra,
The truth wi’ the arra let fly at wee Jenny Marra,

Unionist media said it just disnae Matta
The Unionist media said it just disnae Matta
Her lies and deceit on oor pages won’t splatter.

Jenny the Quiney is as mad as a Hatter!

john boy

Believe me,,,,,the more fucked up Brexit is, the higher the Indy vote .

And at the end of the day that us our goal,,,independence.

john boy

What happened to Treeza’s “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal”?

Liz g

TD @ 11.45
Aw thanks again TD… One worry ticked off the list..
Isn’t it awful that ye can’t trust her Government,not to be manipulating bastards…
I really wondered if we were missing a trick today by not asking about it!!
I’m glad one of us is on the ball..
Thanks again 🙂

Colin Alexander

So, according to Craig Murray, the UK Govt have announced in Parliament, that they reject the (advisory) ICJ ruling on the Chagos Island.

What was it about Scotland taking it to the ICJ about the UK Govt ignoring the “right” to hold indyref2 as self-determination and the UK will just fold?

Want to think again about that assumption?

Not that it matters anyway, Corbyn has delivered the SNP a get out of jail card with his late conversion to a People’s Vote. Corbyn’s move is all about the splits in Labour and that affecting his ability to win a GE. He needs time to rebuild. A People’s Vote charade would give him that time.

The SNP have been praying for any excuse not to call an indyref that they never wanted and haven’t prepared for, Having decided to “know their place”, accept Smith’s crumbs and bend the knee at the House of Lords if it gets them more devolution powers.

So back to business as usual. Scotland treated as a de facto colony of the English Crown. The SNP administer the colony for the English Crown and get to tinker at the edges with their pocket money allowance. Come 2021 they’ll obligingly swear another oath of allegiance to the Queen of England and her heirs of the English Crown.

The Scottish NHS / Health Boards continue to be more secretive and unaccountable (and we know what that leads to) than their English counterparts and any SNP politician/ SNP member or pro-independence supporter that tries to expose this for the public good is ignored, bullied or called a Unionist.

At least we’re still in the EU, for now.

Liz g

John boy @ 12.03
But we don’t believe you John boy..
We believe Nicola..

Liz g

Colin Alexander @ 12.12
Trying to push every button at once comes across as desperation Colin.
Please go back to the drip drip tactic..
We need a challenge,to stymie the boredom till Nicola’s ready… Ta..

Robert J. Sutherland

Robert Peffers @ 22:49,

Aye, RP, had the same feelin’ masel’. More than once.

Liz g @ 23:00,

That’s their inescapable dilemma right there.

And the more verbal diarrhoea, the quicker they give themselves away!

CameronB Brodie

John boy
The Brexit vote was compromised by criminal electioneering and anti-democratic media bias. No form of Brexit benefits either England or Scotland. It might consolidate support for indy but a right-wing dictatorship and economic basket case as our neighbour, will not help Scotland one bit. I want Scottish independence as much as anyone, but not at any cost. You appear to be a bit more reckless though. Why is that?

Liz g

Petra @ 11.46
Also…. In Outlander.
His character,a,totally TV invention… was a massive hit with the book reading fans, ( who can be a bit snippy about any deviation from the books) and this was because of his performance.He is a fantastic actor,and I am so looking forward to binging on Shetland,mainly because of him!!

Liz g

Robert J Sutherland @ 12.29
Do ye think they know how much fun we have over them on the nights out?
I mean we don’t cross the line here, but when we’re all together… well it’s hilarious 🙂
We have some really funny mimics among us!

Colin Alexander

Liz g

Naw ta. You can tell people about the power of the UN and ICJ to free Scotland when the UK Govt says no to the SNP’s indyref policy.

Gies aw a laugh.

Nite nite.

yesindyref2

It’s Jizz and Fizz time!

Liz g

Colin Alexander @ 12.39
I’ve never said such a thing Colin…
What on earth makes you think I did?

Petra

@ Geeo at 10:51pm ….. “Extension not within Treeza’s gift.”

Juncker has already said, as recently as last week, that the EU 27 would agree to an extension. Now whether that refers to a continuation of talks relating to Treeza’s doleful going round and round the garden deal or rather another EURef or GE is anyone’s guess Geeo. What is clear is that the last thing that the EU needs right now is a No Deal Brexit too and they’ll have realised by now that the Westminster crew are not just inept but crazy enough to go through with it: To totally destroy a country and its people over the long term to save face in the short term.

……………..

@ Ken Clark at 10:53pm …. “Shetland.”

Thanks for your response Ken and yes I can see their “need”, maybe, for a “Scottish Woollen Jumper Noir.” Maybe I’m suffering from paranoia, lol. Time will tell. Anyway once again thanks for the reminder of the other “noirs” and the wee laugh that you gave me about the BBC meeting with no doubt, IMO, Rupert, Marmaduke and Tarquin all sitting round the table trying to figure out what life on a Scottish island is like.

Liz g

Yesindyref2 @ 12.44
Aw not tae worry.
There’s probably two of them looking over every post I ever made ( and some of them are quite long 🙂 ) now..
To try to find some line or two to fling at me,in the desperate hope I’d care…
I know,I know,but I wiz bored and they sound desperate..
I’ll give them an hour!!

chicmac

Petra and Liz G
Sam Heughan, the star of outlander, is ‘one of us’ as well as indeed are most Scottish actors.

This from 2014

comment image?dl=0

sandy

Colin Alexander @ 12.39 am

Don’t you realise the reason for the existence of the UN & the ICJ.

Trade is carried out by mutual agreement. Should England/WM ostracise itself in the eyes of the world, what would be the outcome? It’s not the most popular place & never was, in this universe, so it has to watch its step.

Is there anything unique to England that cannot be obtained or manufactured elsewhere?

Even arrogance.

yesindyref2

@Liz g
It’s a social service, and with Westminster austerity biting us all in the bahookie, it’s up to us to show some sympathy and give them a leg up, or at least a foot up, to help them on their way.

Petra

@ Liz at 12:33am ….

Outlander? Brilliant. Douglas Henshall supports Independence. Great. Now more to the point what about Sam Heughan? Just wish he was supporting me, lol. Binging in Shetland? Better to keep the heid and look out for the people traffickers Liz. You wouldnae want to wake up with a hangover to find yourself transported to Mayfair. Now would you?

Dr Jim

There’s an old video circulating on Twitter showing McCrone basically saying the oil report wasn’t a secret it was just not made public and now the oil price is lousy so tough for you Scotland

This video is being circulated by British Nationalists who think it’s hilariously funny that the UK squandered oil revenues on junk and they think that proves that Scotland can’t be Independent

What these mug British Nationalists don’t seem to realise is, in behaving in the very fashion they are over this they actually make the case for Independence even stronger by admitting they’re laughing at Scotland from a position of hatred and scorn (in their minds)

Oil or no oil is not the point of Independence and never was, if we’ve got it, fine, if we don’t, fine, just keep opening your mouths like that and tell Scotland what you think of us and every time you do, like an angel getting their wings another person signs up and joins the SNP

CameronB Brodie

sandy
Wensleydale cheese? 🙂

Petra

@ chicmac at 1:03am ….. “Sam Heughan.”

“One of us.” Thanks for that chicmac. Just made my day. Night? Early morning? Time for bed and a wee read methinks.

Liz g

Petra @ 1.06
I’ve a feeling Mayfare would throw me back Petra 🙂 jist a feeling mind,cause I can’t think why..LOL

………………..
Yesindyref2 @ 1.06
Well yes, tis a kindness right enough,or at least that’s where I’m coming from they’re more to be pitied than blamed.
What must it be like to go to trouble of registering to post here time after time,all the while trying to keep the IP address hidden from the Rev!!! Then ye canny keep it together long enough to last any length of time!
So sad…..and… So bloody funny too.. 🙂 but sad … also funny…. But sad… But!!!
………….
chicmac @ 1.03
Yes… Sam Heughan too… also a great actor…
Who needs the BBC to develop talent.. We grow our own 🙂

yesindyref2

@Liz g
It’s got to be said though, in fairness, Fizz is a way better operator than the other one, you could call him a Smooth Operator in comparison. But still, you could say “Sad-eh?”.

Liz g

Oh Petra..
One of the finest scenes in Outlander…

Sam Heughan……… Jamie Fraser
Douglas Hernshall… Mc Quarrie
Backdrop…………. Scotland
….. Mary Queen of Scots…….

The whole thing said Scotland…
How often do we ever get that?

sandy

Cameron B Brodie @ 1.16am.

Bound to be some other Wensley on the world. Cheese not too hard to make.

Liz g

Yesindyref2 @ 1.44
Ah Fizz just lasted a wee bit longer is all…
Kept it together somewhat in a light conversation for a time.
But when he handed the baggage over, he was was clearly smarting from the spanking of the previous evening…
So the boay couldnay cope wi the pressure and exposed himself too soon!
There’s nothing much we can say other than..
Next!!