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GERS, by economists

Posted on March 15, 2017 by

The announcement that the Scottish Government would seek the uncontested legal right to hold a second independence referendum met with an outpouring of rage and ignorance from the massed ranks of the UK media that was in one sense entirely predictable yet still startling in its fury and ferocity.

Most prominent was the assertion, stated as fact by every pundit and broadcaster – including those required by law to be fair and impartial – that a second referendum would be conducted in the environment of a significantly worse economic case.

And that’s a remarkable claim, because the indisputable fact is that nobody has the slightest clue what the economic case for No will be.

Scots will be choosing not between independence and the status quo, as they were in 2014, but between independence and a new UK outside the EU, the economic consequences of which are one of the greatest unknowns in British history.

You cannot evaluate a decision in which you only know, at best, the numbers on one side. Even if you accept that a fall in oil revenues damages Scotland’s prospective independent economy – and it’s not nearly as simple as that – it’s still very possible that that damage could be outweighed by the economic benefits of avoiding Brexit.

But the truth is even worse – nobody knows EITHER half of the equation, because the supposed calculations of an independent Scotland’s finances are grossly unfit for purpose. That’s something we’ve been pointing out for several years, based not on our opinion but on the views of people who analyse economics for a living.

(Rather than, say, in their spare time from running a loss-making dogfood business.)

The assessment of the relevance of GERS from proper economists – of all political viewpoints and professional backgrounds – is now so overwhelmingly uniform that it seemed worth collecting it in one place.



Jim Cuthbert was Chief Statistician at the UK government’s Scottish Office. He has an MA in mathematics and economics, an MSc in mathematics and statistics, and a PhD in probability theory. He lectured in statistics at Glasgow University, and worked for the cash limits division of the UK Treasury.

His wife Margaret has a degree in Economics and Statistics, and worked as an economist for ICI before lecturing in econometrics at Glasgow University.

The Cuthberts have spent many years pointing out the methodological flaws in GERS, some of which were deliberately designed into the figures by a hostile UK government.

The couple are perhaps the UK’s foremost and most widely-respected experts on GERS. They are, however, supporters of Scottish independence and their expertise can be – wrongly – dismissed on those grounds by Unionists. So let’s look elsewhere.



Merryn Somerset-Webb is Editor in chief of MoneyWeek – the UK’s best-selling personal finance magazine – and writes for the Financial Times, Sunday Post and Saga Magazine as well as commentating on finance for radio and TV.

Until last month she also worked as a member of the advisory board of hardcore ultra-Loyalist idiot festival Scotland In Union, although we note that she is no longer credited as such on their website.

Four months before the independence referendum, Somerset-Webb wrote an article for MoneyWeek unequivocally and categorically rubbishing the idea that the economy of an independent Scotland could be accurately measured through the GERS figures.

It noted that “all the numbers everyone uses to make the financial argument are no more than rough guesses” and that readers could “ignore all the financial arguments for a separate Scotland on the basis that no-one knows what they actually are”.

Curiously, the article – which also appeared in the Financial Times entitled “Scotland’s fiscal independence is inevitable” – has vanished without trace from MoneyWeek’s website, replaced by a rather appropriate error message.

(It still appears on the FT’s, over which Somerset-Webb has no editorial control.)



Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited  is a multinational professional services firm based in New York. It’s one of the “Big Four” accounting firms and the largest such network in the world by revenue and number of clients, providing audit, tax, consulting, enterprise risk and financial advisory services to more than 244,400 professionals globally.

In 2016, the company earned a record $36.8 billion USD in revenues and was the 6th-largest privately owned organization in the United States. It has the largest number of clients amongst FTSE 250 companies in the UK.

Deloitte’s view on GERS is short and to the point.

Somerset-Webb and Deloitte would both normally be considered as politically firmly on the right, so perhaps we might also seek a figure on the progressive left for balance.



Richard Murphy is Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University London, and previously visiting fellow at University of Portsmouth Business School, the Centre for Global Political Economy at the University of Sussex, and at the Tax Research Institute at the University of Nottingham.

He also writes for the Guardian, and has been widely praised by commentators on the left, hailed by the Daily Mirror journalist Kevin Maguire as a “heroic figure” and by Guardian journalist Polly Toynbee as a “tireless campaigner”.

In 2015 many of Murphy’s ideas were taken up as proposed policies by Jeremy Corbyn, who subsequently became leader of the Labour Party. These ideas helped to form the body of policies that was dubbed “Corbynomics”.

This month, Murphy wrote two columns for his blog on the subject of GERS. The first is a masterfully concise piece worth reproducing in its entirety:

In a few short paragraphs Murphy forensically destroyed all four pillars of the Unionist figures for the Scottish economy – GDP, tax revenues, spending and import/exports. The piece brought down a storm of abuse from furious GERS-obsessed amateurs, prompting Murphy to pen a follow-up.

In the second piece he methodically assessed the 26 pieces of data which comprise the GERS stats, noting that:

“As far as I can tell two (local authority income and, maybe, the estimate of Scottish oil revenues) are definitely calculated in Scotland, and the latter is an estimate, not a fact, which is pretty significant in this case.

The remainder which is the vast majority) are figures supplied, as I suggested, by Westminster linked organisations, or ‘London’ as I called it. I think I can happily rest my case with regard to that claim. If anyone suggests this data was made in Scotland they are deluding themselves.”

After several more paragraphs of brutal dismantling, he concluded:

Ouch. That’s pretty comprehensive.


The sources we’ve quoted above cover Unionist and pro-independent voices, the left and right of the political spectrum, and across the full breadth of academia, media, big business and individual expertise. Every one of them reaches the exact same blunt and unambiguous conclusion – GERS is absolutely meaningless as a guide to the finances of an independent Scotland.

We’ve told you that all along, of course. But we suppose you could listen to an angry, brittle egomaniac who flogs Whiskas for a living instead if you really wanted to.

Either way, however, it is plainly unacceptable for lazy journalists and presenters to repeatedly state as an unchallenged empirical fact something which is the exact polar opposite of the view of every known expert in the field.

We wish we had any confidence that it was about to stop happening.

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  1. 15 03 17 13:01

    What was the question? | Scotto Voce

  2. 15 03 17 13:56

    GERS, by economists | speymouth

395 to “GERS, by economists”

  1. Ken500 says:

    Why does Westminster cling on?

    The tide has turned and is rising. Better a realistic change over. 70% of people in Scotland want more fiscal autonomy and control. Get on with it. ‘Rule Britainnia’ has played out.

  2. Ian McCubbin says:

    An extremely welcome blog article Stu. This gives the definitive argument against GERS with evidence irifutably.
    Thank you

  3. gordoz says:

    All very good, but what will the currency be ?

    Sorry couldn’t resist.

    (Oh and what about border checks ?)

  4. gus1940 says:

    Excellent article by George Monbiot in today’s Guardian.

  5. gordoz says:

    Are we keeping barnet ? Mines thinning a bit 🙂

  6. gordoz says:

    Ah wuz shure e’ GERS drew wi’ Cellick whit ye havin’ a go fur like ??

  7. gus1940 says:

    At PMQs May banging on again about how the top % pay 27% of Income Tax total.

    No bloody wonder given the obscene salaries they manage to arrange between themselves with their overlapping Remuneration Committees.

  8. Inbhir Anainn says:

    And of course you could also add to this from Business from Scotland.

  9. One_Scot says:

    I’m not sure I would be so generous as to say that journalists peddling lies and misinformation about Scotland and Independence is down to laziness. I would be more inclined to believe it was intentional.

  10. gordoz says:

    Killer last sentence from Prof Murray. (Boom ! Drops Mike & exits stage left)

    Hear the dug salesman is apoplectic !

  11. Inbhir Anainn says:

    Addendum that should read Business for Scotland.

  12. Swami Backverandah says:

    “an outpouring of rage and ignorance from the massed ranks of the UK media”

    There’s a typo.
    It should read “the massed cranks”.

  13. Camy says:

    Whiskas isn’t a dog food BTW

  14. Dorothy Devine says:

    Gordoz , thanks for the smile!

  15. MajorBloodnok says:

    I bet wee Kevin’s got a bit of a runny bottom today.

    “But I’m a respected blogger,” he cried “I’ve been published in the Daily Mail and everything.”

  16. DerekM says:

    lol round one out comes wee Kev ducking and weaving gets planted by an almighty haymaker from the prof.

    Staggering about tripping over his graphs he retaliates with name calling only to get another almighty hook from the profs box of facts.

    Referee and crowd went home so did the prof,wee Kev is left shouting to an empty hall that he knows best.

    best clown show all year yoons bravo lol

  17. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Brilliant article, to which we must keep returning and quoting as we repeatedly knock back the myths and falsehoods that will be continually thrown at us.

  18. alexicon says:

    I’m keeping this link for my bank of facts.
    Handy when dealing with rabid unionists.

  19. alexicon says:

    It is now time that NS stood up and rubbished GERS for what it is.
    The Scottish Government is not doing any of us who debate on other websites any favours by using the discredited GERS figures in their annual analysis of our economy.

  20. Red Squirrel says:

    Fundraiser worth every penny for this article alone.

    Thanks for such a clear summary of GERS.

  21. Macart says:

    Heh. That’ll leave a mark. 🙂

    Neatly done.

  22. David Howdle says:

    The Money Week link seems to have been reinstated. I clicked on it and was taken to the article.

  23. ClanDonald says:

    The way I see it is that Denmark, a small nation in the North Sea, with a similar population to Scotland, hardly any oil, far less fishing and no whisky industry has a far higher GDP, greater prosperity, better quality of life, superb education and a fair social democratic system.

    The United States, on the other hand, which Westminster wants to emulate, might have more super-rich than we do but they also have massive poverty, no social healthcare system, few workers rights, eroding environmental standards, practically no welfare state, universities that cost £20,000 per year and a dangerous, violent society. The average cost for a family of four for health insurance is about £12,000 per year.

    That’s all I need to know to work out what kind of Society I want Scotland to be. Numbers on a spreadsheet mean nothing if you have an uncaring, brutal system that treats human beings as commodities or economic units.

  24. Fireproofjim says:

    On PMQs today the Scottish MPs certainly giving Teresa a hard time on consulting Holyrood over Brexit.. No answers from her. Just the usual bluster.

  25. Nation Libre says:

    I see the Telegraph has toned down Pearson’s dangerous headline

    On another point, SNP getting stuck in at PMQs. May looking rattled

  26. theMadMurph says:

    Camy says:
    15 March, 2017 at 12:19 pm
    Whiskas isn’t a dog food BTW

    Maybe that’s why his Dog Food business isn’t doing so well!!

  27. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Phantom Power has been trying to get K***n H***e to appear on one of his programs to discuss the economics of Scotland with some real economists – you know, ones who are trained and work in Universities and have qualifications like PhDs and professorships, etc.

    He declined to appear – I now know why!

  28. gordoz says:

    Slightly O/T but also like this – (not my words)

    Someone passed this on to me but pretty good.

    If Nicola Sturgeon gets her way and Scotland holds a second referendum on Independence before UK leaves the EU, Theresa May will be forced to do the following.

    “On the one hand, she will have to warn voters to leave a longstanding union with their country’s most important trading partners would be an act of economic self-harm. In fact it would be a disaster. Anyone who tells them otherwise, the PM must argue, is not living in the real world.

    On the other hand, she will simultaneously have to reassure voters that to leave a longstanding union with their country’s most important trading partners will not be an act of economic self-harm. In fact, it will be a success. Anyone who tells them otherwise, the PM must argue, is engaged in baseless scaremongering.

    Mrs May has 18mths to work out how best to phrase this. It will be interesting to see what she comes up with”.

    Is hypocrisy at work ? Surely not ….

  29. Ross says:

    Cuts both ways though. What is your pinned tweet GDP figure showing us higher than France based on?

    Pro indy. It’s probably correct what is being said but by strategy makes the white paper look a bit silly. Think the Government did the right thing using the false figure. What option do we have?

  30. kailyard rules says:

    Kevin Hague is now very deep in the “denial” stage. How does that finalise again?

  31. Dan Huil says:

    Very useful, as ever from the Rev. Needs to be repeated over and over to as many waverers as possible.

  32. Peter A Bell says:

    “Scots will be choosing not between independence and the status quo, as they were in 2014”

    Whoa! That’s not right! The No campaign started off insisting it stood for the status quo. But that changed rapidly when the realisation dawned that they were trying to sell the least popular option. After that, the UK Government, the British parties and Better Together/Project Fear started promising all manner of constitutional reform – culminating in the infamous ‘Vow’.

    The problem was that, while independence is a simple concept made to look complex by torrents of British nationalist propaganda, what was being offered by the anti-independence campaign was never made clear.

    The choice facing voters in 2014 was not between independence and the status quo. It was between asserting their own sovereignty and handing to the British (Tory) establishment the power to define what a No vote meant after the ballots were counted.

  33. Mike says:

    Another superb piece of evidence compilation and presentation Stu. which sadly should have been highlighted in every MSM debate on the issue or at least given a mention as part of a balanced partial presentation of debate from both sides of every argument on the subject.
    Instead we get a flood of evidence free assertion presented as fact. Unchallenged ranting rhetoric repeated ad nauseum as NEWS.

    The sorry fact is once again the decision which is so vital to all of us is going to be taken in blind ignorance by people inundated by misinformation disinformation propaganda bare faced lies and distorted truths because the truth and the facts would have them making an informed choice which would end 310 years of despotic privileged patronised criminally run Government.

    Don’t ever tell me we live in a Democracy overseen by a “Mother of all Parliaments”

    Just don’t.

  34. Jack Murphy says:

    I really must share this Twitter comment from someone who I shall refer to as Anonymous,following Prime Minister’s Questions TODAY:
    “Scotland, please vote for independence and get the SNP the hell out of Westminster! ” 🙂

  35. Nation Libre says:

    O/T but Daily Politics now just ignore SNP input altogether. Disgraceful

  36. Clapper57 says:

    ” The owners of the country don’t want an educated populace capable of educated thought, sitting around the kitchen table realising how badly they’re getting f**ked” – George Carlin

    Who said “Politics is not a game but a serious business “….Theresa May ?…partly yes re “Politics is not a game”.. but actually the full quote is a Winston Churchill quote…..oh my giddy aunt how predictable that she should drain the quote swamp to cherry pick a sliver of a quote from the ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ old boy.

    Desperate times indeed.

  37. orri says:

    The inference they want to make is that what they’re talking about is a comparison between the economic case for an independent Scotland vs that of remaining part of the UK. If they’re only talking about that of an independent Scotland after a further 2 years of glorious Tory rule since 2014 and the continuing omnishambles that’s Brexit then they’re correct. But I’d argue that’s all the more reason not to have that shower of incompetents in charge.

  38. Leslie Ross says:

    I hate the Unionist comeback that
    GERS fiqures where good enough for the SNP white paper…grrrr
    We need a better answer to that statement…does anyone have one ?

  39. Alt Clut says:

    I suspect that this may gradually turn into one of the most important posts of our new campaign.

    It just kicks unionist legs out !

    We all need to get it everywhere possible again and again. I’m starting now.

  40. Ken Clark says:

    Much needed, rev, kudos.

    Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

    Apologies for “weaponising” this. 😉

  41. icyspark says:

    Here is an archived link to the now deleted MERRYN-SOMERSET WEBB page under section 2.

    Nice try MoneyWeek

  42. Mike says:

    I’m not sure which part of the UK actually trusts this Government to deliver on their promises to at least try to get the best deal for Britain but on their track record of U turning alone we have to presume justifiably that their promises are worth as much as I can get from selling the steam off my shite on Gumtree.

  43. Arbroath1320 says:

    Nation Libre says:
    15 March, 2017 at 12:59 pm

    O/T but Daily Politics now just ignore SNP input altogether. Disgraceful

    I have it on very good authority NL that they did so deliberately because they did not want to be left with egg on their face … AGAIN! 😀

    I see Mayhem is rather upset that folks are referring to Brexit as a divorce. She aint too happy with this reference. Methinks we should up the anti on her here and only refer to Brexit as a divorce, after all that is all we heard from her lot in 2014 was it not? 😉

  44. call me dave says:

    Another great article.

    Just the ticket and all in one place for easy reference. 🙂

    Plans to increase National Insurance levels for self-employed people – announced in the Budget last week – have been dropped.

    Chancellor Philip Hammond has said the government will not proceed with the increases which were criticised for breaking a 2015 manifesto pledge.

    In a letter to Tory MPs, he said: “There will be no increases in… rates in this Parliament.”

  45. gus1940 says:

    TM looking extremely uncomfortable at today’s PMQs as if she would rather be anywhere else than in the Commons.

    Usual evasion and refusal to answer questions topped by a sickening recital about all the past glories of The UK – I was half expecting her to break into a rendition of Land of Hope and Glory – a real 2 sickbag performance.

  46. Bob Mack says:

    If you wondered why England is so determined to hold onto Scotland then consider this.

    The Treasury estimates a drop of £60 billion loss of trade post Brexit
    Scotland leaving would deny them a further £50 odd billion in taxes and revenue
    The National GDP would drop by around £150 billion per year from Scotlands input
    All affect borrowing powers.

    England would be more like Greece than Greece.
    That is why they must hold on to Scotland

  47. Andrew Davidson says:

    And this article, right off the bat belies the nonsense that gets peddled at times that WingsOverScotland is nothing but a ‘news aggregator’.

    This pulling together sources, highlighting pertinent information *in context* and then leaving it for the reader to take those final steps is vital.

    Not trying to blow smoke up your arse, but just saying I appreciate your efforts.

  48. Ian S Sanderson says:

    Surely the Telegraph graphic (top) is an incitement to murder..?

  49. Proud Cybernat says:

    On yer bikes…

  50. orri says:

    The counter petition to the one calling for Westminster to ban a referendum. Mind you given the first one has reached a level where a debate has to take place it’s no longer in May and Mundell’s hands so any chance that they’d be able to veto has now vanished.

  51. Sunniva says:

    Fabulous piece of research Stu. Just brilliant.

  52. Macart says:

    @Ian S Sanderson

    It is certainly incitement and defamatory. The Mail, for once, a mere step behind with ‘BETRAYAL’.

    HMG won’t lift a finger and it’s doubtful the authorities will either. This is the narrative and it’s going to get worse.

    They are deeply reckless and foolish people.

    There is only one way to stop this intimidation. The same way you stop any bully. You make it stop. You cease to be the target by either knocking the bully on their arse, or removing yourself from their sphere of influence.

    IMO, we end this by ending our political relationship with a government which creates and condones such a narrative and the media which would callously spread it. Or in short, we tell them to sling their hook and don’t let the door hit their arse on the way oot.

  53. icyspark says:

    Well that’s one page of the WBB2 taken care of 🙂

  54. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for O/T here but just come across this from the Edinburgh South Labour Party Facebook page.


    In the last independence referendum we strongly campaigned for Better Together.

    We have covertly as a group decided on the above. The position now declared by those in Edinburgh South Labour Party is to support Scottish Independence.

    Our decision directly relates to the values of Labour.

    Our brave decision is at odds with the Scottish Labour leadership and Ian Murray MP. We cannot sit by and allow Conservatives to strip us of EU membership and our Human Rights. We are dismayed by Ian Murray MP to put himself above the People of Scotland.

    We’ve had a broken vow, and false expectations of what was to be delivered, angering us within the Labour Party.

    We are a group of around 30 Labour members working at varying levels in Scottish Labour.

    This time we campaign for Yes Scotland – and we hope you will join us to protect Scotland and Her future rights, privileges and prosperity.


    Now, like most peeps I am always cynical about anything from Labour. That said, however, I am willing to believe that this is a genuine call from ESLP. To that end I have left them a wee welcome message onto the train to independence.

    In the name of solidarity for independence can I suggest that others with a similar view to me perhaps consider posting a wee welcome message to them. I think they might appreciate it, after all they only appear to have around 30 members. I know how I’d feel if I was one of them.

  55. HandandShrimp says:

    Out of passing curiosity what is Kev’s academic discipline? My Masters was in Economic History and Kev’s approach is definitely idiosyncratic (not a crime) but perhaps, far worse, dull. I don’t read his blog not because I disagree, I have no problem reading and disagreeing but because I just wasn’t engaged enough to ever go back. Economics is a dry subject and few can write about it with the fluidity of a Galbraith or Keynes or the sledgehammer wielding remorselessness of Marx.

  56. heraldnomore says:

    For those of a certain age:

    Don’t be vague…

  57. Mike says:


    I will reserve judgement right up to the point where they start asking for funds.

    This is the constituency Duncan Hothersall and Scott Arthur operate from.

    Treat with caution.

  58. Brian Powell says:

    Arbroath 1320

    It seems there is no Edinburgh South Labour Party. It’s a spoof apparently.

  59. dmw42 says:

    Imagine this scenario:

    A company HQ’d in England (for illustrative purposes, let’s call it Westminster) incurs costs (let’s call it HS2) which only benefits that company’s English operation.

    The company however cross-charges an element of those costs to a member of its corporate group (let’s call that member company Scotland), and the member company accounts for those costs in its accounts.

    The HQ company likewise incurs numerous other costs which it only uses for the English operation (let’s call them Trident, Crossrail, Hinkley etc), and cross-charges all these additional costs to the corporate group member too, Again, although the corporate group entity doesn’t actually use these costs for its own business, it nevertheless accounts for the costs in its accounts.

    But, because the HQ has overspent, it needs to borrow a shitload of money, meaning it has a loss in the HQ accounts.

    No worries though, it merely allocates some of those losses to the corporate group member, and of course, that corporate group member includes the losses transferred in its accounts.

    Oh, and of course, despite the HQ mismanaging the whole corporate group, it makes a management charge to the corporate group member, and yes, the group member includes these in its accounts.

    Having run up a series of debts in the prevailing year, the HQ allocates part of the servicing of that debt to the corporate group member.

    Now, imagine if you will that Deloitte were asked to sign of the accounts as ‘a fair and accurate statement’ of the group member’s accounts; it would point blank refuse to do so as the costs, losses and interest payable not only relate to the same thing, but are not in any way associated with the running of the corporate member’s business activity.

    This, ladies and gentlemen, is GERS.

  60. Nation Libre says:

    This is the sort of article that should be in The National instead of the airy-fairy items they cover and the nice graphic front pages. Let’s see some real analysis

  61. Big Jock says:

    All of which concludes one thing. Economics and the future is not predictable. Nothing is definite and nothing guaranteed. So basing a vote for your nation on a few dodgy sums is both futile and shallow.

    We must vote on democracy and principle and not on the economics of the unknown. There is one guarantee though. If we stay in the UK we are out of the EU,and probably for ever. We will also still have a government 80% of Scots didn’t vote for. With independence we get to choose.

  62. Arbroath1320 says:


    Thanks for the wee correction about ESLP folks … DUH!

  63. K1 says:

    Beware of more of this sort of crap LA, the ‘fake sites’ will start springing up all over social media from here on in…we must all be vigilant, the aim is to disrupt and make it look like ‘Labour are for independence’ to fool the unsuspecting yes voter into voting labour in local elections I would imagine. Would be interesting if some tech people can look at source codes etc… 😉

    Simple rule of thumb: if it smells like shite and looks like it’s too good to be ‘real’ it probably is shite and it’s certainly not ‘real’.

  64. K1 says:

    We must vote for independence for one simple reason…Tory rule for the next 15/20 years…ahm no huvin’ that!

    I’d rather live in a tattered shoe box beside a sewer than under the thumb of a bunch of Tory wankers.

  65. Liam says:

    Point of order:
    “You cannot solve an equation of which you only know, at best, the numbers on one side.”

    When I was at school that was exactly the way you were presented with equations to solve. If you know all the numbers on one side then the equation is solvable. If you know all the numbers on both sides it is solved.

    Would “You cannot solve an equation with half the numbers missing” be a better way of putting it?

  66. mike cassidy says:

    So, basically, the GERS figures are as convincing as Jamie Vardy falling down injured

    Then could the SNP reps and other pro-independence types get their fingers out when doing media appearances and laugh these statistics out of the debate.

    Don’t argue. Just laugh loudly, and say come back when you know something about the subject.

  67. call me dave says:

    Been a good day so far Mrs May looks a bit harassed and out of her depth quite frankly at he dispatch box.

    Meanwhile Prof Curtis hints that the UK can’t play’the long game’ as simple demography may solve the problem…in the end.

    Hope the link works it’s from the WoS twitter. 🙂

    In other news Sky saying Mundell under investigation for election fiddle … but no linky thing yet anybody help?

  68. galamcennalath says:

    Curtice from Wings twitter ….

    …. shoots down interviewer for focusing out bad outlier poll.

  69. Arbroath1320 says:

    in my pitiful defence K1 I would only say that as we have Labour for indy who worked for independence in 2014 and are still working for independence then this did, on the face of it, appear to be a possibility of a realistic turnaround by a particular branch.

    *goes hides in corner*

  70. galamcennalath says:

    @call me dave


    Curtice giving a very optimistic (from our viewpoint) appraisal there.

  71. Macart says:

    Rev has posted an… interesting… vid on his twitter site. I won’t link to it because, well because it’s pretty offensive in its ethnic bigotry and hatred.

    Basically though, it truly is a QED moment for the results of years of government and media narrative. That is a prime example of the mindset and world view it creates.

    Well done them.

  72. Ian McLean says:

    I’m afraid there is a serious error in your post Stu.
    Whiskas is not dog food.

  73. frogesque says:

    @Brian Powell 1.53

    There is however an Edinburgh Pentlands SLab fb page. I know, I’ve been banned! Lol

  74. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Macart Ocht yer to sensitive ah approved that vid on 5mins ago lol.

  75. manandboy says:

    Arbroath1320 says:
    “I see Mayhem is rather upset that folks are referring to Brexit as a divorce. She aint too happy with this reference. Methinks we should up the anti on her here and only refer to Brexit as a divorce, after all that is all we heard from her lot in 2014 was it not? ?”

    EU = European Union. If it’s a Union then it’s a DIVORCE.

    UK = United Kingdom. If it’s a Union then it’s a DIVORCE.

    Theresa May would never be happy with the language of DIVORCE re Brexit, nor indeed Scottish Independence, for the obvious reason that divorce is preceded by marriage which is a union of two equal partners.

    If we know anything about the English and their ‘effortless superiority’ and inate treachery, we know they do NOT believe in equality past saying they do.

    Theresa May is the personification of these English traits.

  76. Col says:

    We shouldn’t even be going into this debate still arguing about the gers figures as presented by the UK unionists and the media. I’m sick of ripping my hair out as the unionists use repetition and simplistic lying techniques to embed complete falsehoods into the political debate. Regarding the very future of this country.

  77. manandboy says:

    I can’t wait any longer. Please, who has the dog food business???!!!

  78. Macart says:

    @ronnie anderson

    I am quite delicate for an unshaved potato. 🙂

  79. Nana says:


    I think the fellow in the video is a contender for leading better together2

    Offensive, almost as if he’s been taking Westminster’s rhetoric about Scots to heart.

    Poor soul, needs a colonic wash in his mouth for starters.

  80. K1 says:

    Just watched it from Rev’s twitter feed too Macart. Hmm…can anyone imagine if a ‘Scottish’ person had produced this xenophobic ignorant rant and put it on you tube?

    It’d be viral all over msm by now…

  81. Arbroath1320 says:

    manandboy says:
    15 March, 2017 at 2:48 pm

    I can’t wait any longer. Please, who has the dog food business???!!!

    If memory serves it is everyone’s favourite economist Kevin Hague. To be fair I believe his name is usually spelt K**** H**** 😀

  82. manandboy says:

    Lest I forget beyond temporarily, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, Stu.
    Name a place in Scotland where we should put the statue. But please, not in place of the duke of Sutherland!

    (Dominating the skyline above the village of Golspie (and visible from many parts of east Sutherland) is the 100 foot tall statue on top of Ben Bhraggie. It is of George Granville Leveson-Gower, Marquess of Stafford and first Duke of Sutherland who became notorious through the part he played in the Highland clearances.)

  83. Soutron says:

    This is pretty much the angle I’ve been going for when talking to undecideds/soft no voters for a while. We have no way of knowing the what the numbers are so can’t entirely trust either sides’ presentation of the figures (I also try to avoid freaking people out by going down the modern monetary theory route).

    I usually talk about the tangible resources in Scotland that we have in abundance (things that notes and numbers in accounts can’t really buy); fresh water, wind, waves, raw materials, well educated workforce, food, fish, oil, gas, world-leading researchers etc etc.

    Look to other small, Northern European democracies with broadly comparable populations to ours. Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, The Netherlands.

    What do they have that we don’t have? The ability to make their own choices. That’s it. We’re probably richer than most of them resource-wise. We’ve just been mismanaged.

    The main response face-to-face I’ve had is usually something to do with £10 pound pints or high taxes. I usually hit them with an anecdote relating to Icelanders flying back to Reykjavik from Glasgow loaded with shopping bags full of luxury goods from Frasers. They didn’t seem to be managing too badly. Free childcare and a year’s fully paid maternity/paternity leave in Norway looks like a bargain for a few £s extra tax to a young family too.

  84. Arbroath1320 says:

    I see yet another *YAWN* poll has emerged from the ether. This time it’s from ITV.

    From the current results of around 4,200 votes it is NOT looking too good for the NO side.

    YES 94%
    No 6%

    There can only be one thing to say about this result so far …

  85. Bob Mack says:


    When I did equations there was always one side which = the other. The object was to identify what numbers or values were missing.
    Just like GERS.

  86. Macart says:


    ‘colonic mouthwash’

    So, not a hug then? 🙂

  87. Tam the Bam. says:

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that requests to Westminster (via an FOI) for more information used in the compilation of GERS have not been fruitful.Can anyone shed any light on this?

  88. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Macart ah must have toughened up , ave even grown ah beard lol

  89. Training Day says:

    Excellent summary, Rev.

    Just had a look at the comments under Monbiot’s article in the Guardian today. Quite astonishing levels of bile and contempt directed towards Scotland, with ignorant, pompous pronouncements about Scotland’s ‘deficit’, trade links and general penury – all recycled from the English MSM portrayal of a mendicant, stone age dystopia – delivered with the arrogant certainty of a traffic warden in heat.

    And these are the ‘liberals’ in Brexit England..

  90. Nana says:

    Here it is Rev Stu

    Senior EU figure Elmar Brok MEP: Scotland in EU will be “easy”

  91. Nana says:


    Naw, colonic wash with a wire brush! Followed by a rinse with Jeyes fluid.

  92. Dal Riata says:

    Comprehensively done, Stu, excellent work!

    Keep yourself safe and mind where you go. The Britnat demons have let loose their rabies-ridden dogs of war already, and we’re just a few days in, ffs!

  93. Arbroath1320 says:

    I may be wrong but it appears, to me at least, that the pressure is starting to get to the poor wee lambs in the Tory party. ?

  94. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana Somebody fed him that Quorn haggis vile stuff lol.

  95. Arbroath1320 says:

    I’ve just come across the video Nana. I may be wrong here … and today does seem to be the day for me screwing things up 😉 , but I’m on the verge of putting down as a NO voter in the next referendum. ?

  96. Bob Mack says:

    Common space have an article on this very topic, but I am unable to link on this device. An Oxford professor who felt the economic case was bad in 2014, now agrees that Scotland would have a great economy. Worth reading to add to the above.

  97. Sinky says:

    Politics Scotland with one armchair analyst .. Labour’s Margaret Curran. Imagine any UK politics show without a government supporting commemtator on the sofa.

    Oh wait now over to Westminster with three unionists against one SNP MP.

    Did the SNP now get 56 out of 59 Scottish MPs elected?

    Balance my…..

  98. Nana says:

    Tune in to channel4 this evening for more on the tory election fraud.

    New emails show more members of PM’s top team involved –

  99. Cadogan Enright says:

    I do find it mildly annoying that the Scottish Government does not publish its OWN figures – minus highspeed trains in England, minus the new London Sewerage System or nuclear weapons etc etc – all counted against Scotland’s account

  100. Iona says:

    Hammond has just pulled back from his NIC raise as a result of pressure because he broke a sacred manifesto promise. Why then does the MSM think that it would be OK for the SNP to break theirs?

  101. Dal Riata says:

    Alison Pearson, masquerading as a ‘journalist’ is a fucking disgrace to her ‘profession’.

    Alison Pearson’s hate-piece masquerading as an ‘article’, is a fucking disgrace to human decency.

    The headline writers at the Telegraph, who thought it reasonable to add that disgusting headline to that Pearson hate-piece, are a fucking disgrace to all who work in the ‘profession”s background.

    The Telegraph, masquerading as a ‘newspaper’, is a fucking disgrace to everyone who works in their ‘profession’ for seeing it fit to encourage and incite hatred, hostility and division by printing such vileness as Alison Pearson’s ‘article’.

  102. Mike says:

    BBC balanced reporting continues 3 Yoon voices 4 if you include the reporter to 1 pro Indy.

    Same repetitive rhetoric. forget Indy get on with the day job. Translation Get the fuck back into your box and finish that fucking cereal once and for all.

  103. shug says:

    Just watching the news and I see Mrs May is saying “Scotland will be leaving the EU regardless.”

    So even although she knows:

    – we voted against leaving
    – there will be another referendum
    – we are very likely to continue supporting being in the EU

    She will enforce leaving and it will be for Scotland to pick up the pieces – so much for having the interests of this country at heart!!!

    I hope all no voters are hearing this crass disregard for the interests of Scotland. They are clearly taking the position;

    – we don’t care
    – do what you are told
    – we will take no account of your interests

    Surly even fluffy Mundell will be embarrassed by taking this line.

  104. Craig P says:

    Any truth in the rumour Kurt Russell is doing a new Snake Plissken movie, ‘Escape from UK’?

  105. Clootie says:

    We all know that GERS is crap. Even the Unionist who quote it knows it is crap.
    However many people in Scotland don’t. When they hear Holyroods OWN figures what do the think.

    How do we counter Mr. Ian Langs poison legacy designed to make us look like an economic basket case. We need to hit this hard and early because the “15Billion Pound black hole” is going to be rolled out daily coupled with the Greece of the North.

  106. Bob Mack says:

    Don’t get angry——get even.

  107. schrodingers cat says:

    edinburgh south cpl spoof
    a lie can travel halfway round the world before the truth gets out

    murray and hotherstall will be furious having to clarify their position lol

    what ever happened to bettertogether st kilda and norway?

  108. shug says:

    I heard that Better Together tried to have a start up meeting in Motherwell and nobody turned up.

    Certainly they had only booked a smallish room but still a nil turn out is an interesting starting point

  109. Brian Powell says:

    The Referendum will be a binary choice so SNP, Scottish Greens and other spokesmen should be demanding balance panels, not one from SNP, 3 from other parties.

  110. Arbroath1320 says:

    Think I’ll just leave this here. 😉

    Another Scottish independence vote could threaten the U.K.’s credit rating outlook, according to James McCormack, global head of sovereign ratings at Fitch Ratings Ltd.

  111. Andy Anderson says:

    Thanks again Stu for this very concise and helpful piece of ammunition for the task now getting underway.
    Thanks also to all of your contributors to this web site. I keep all the stuff I consider good for my battle box.

    I am printing articles onto hard copy for those that are not computer savvy which seem to be mostly from my generation.

    Freedom…..onwards and upwards, lets get out there talking now.

  112. Brian Powell says:

    On panels, perhaps SNP and others can refuse to go on unless there are 2 SNP, 1 Green, or 1 SNP, 1 Green and expert of their choice.

    They need to make a stand on this and bring it up on every show and with every producer.

  113. Takeour blueback says:

    A new acronym for GERS is needed:

    Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS)

    could turn into

    Government Evasion Restricting Scotland (GERS)

  114. Richardinho says:

    Seems like a lot of ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ name calling by Brit nats today. I wonder if Ruth or Kez will be called on to condemn them?

  115. Terry says:

    It’s complicated. And designed to be so to paint us as poor.

    However I’ve been trying out a simple solution which works. It goes like this –

    “So – an independent scotland would be like Greece without the sun? Nope. It would be like Norway but WITH the whisky.”

    It’s a no brainier as Norway is the European country most like us in geography, population and resources. You can see the penny dropping.

  116. Tinto Chiel says:

    A great article, Rev. and a great point-to resource for canvassing: brilliant.

    Shug: so that means more people applied for the Motherwell FC job than turned up to be Bitter Together again.


  117. ScottieDog says:

    I only realised by looking at K**** H****s twitter bio that he really is just a blogger. I never paid him much attntin and took him for just another neoliberal hack with an economics background.
    Incredible to think he gets so much coverage from radio Scotland etc.

    Think I might ask to go on. LOL

  118. Liam says:

    “When I did equations there was always one side which = the other. The object was to identify what numbers or values were missing.”

    That’s what I mean. If you know ALL the numbers on one side then it’s easy.

    But this is splitting hairs about a turn of phrase. We have bigger fish to fry.

    Today I had the singular pleasure of agreeing with a yoon that, post-independence, we would have to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall. The fact that Hadrian’s Wall is entirely in England and doing so would make Scotland bigger was a surprise to him.

    If ignorance is bliss why aren’t the people of England happier that they are?

  119. Arbroath1320 says:

    Today I had the singular pleasure of agreeing with a yoon that, post-independence, we would have to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall. The fact that Hadrian’s Wall is entirely in England and doing so would make Scotland bigger was a surprise to him.

    I’m wondering if, when the next indy ref comes around and the requisite Wee Blue Book Mark II appears if perhaps a wee map of current UK is included, specifically the area North and South of Hadrian’s Wall. With Engerland,Scotland and Hadrian’s Wall all clearly marked it would certainly highlight to those not very well educated about the geography of the British Isles exactly where Hadrian’s wall is.

    This may very well significantly curtail all the nonsense we constantly hear about rebuilding Hadrian’s wall. Unless of course in so doing those spouting this rebuilding idea are throwing Cumbria and Northumberland over to us a move that the locals would most surely appreciate. 😀

  120. Jack Murphy says:

    Bob Mack said at 3:21 pm:-
    “Common space have an article on this very topic, but I am unable to link on this device.
    An Oxford professor who felt the economic case was bad in 2014, now agrees that Scotland would have a great economy. Worth reading to add to the above.”

    I think this is the article Bob Mack refers,well worth a read from CommonSpace dated today.

  121. Dorothy Devine says:

    What kind of mentally defective adult thinks it is OK to write things like this?

    4 hours ago
    Four polls just showed that Scots are not going to vote for independence – a good slap on the butt for the petulant red haired child.

    From the ‘intellectual’ Independent btl on the Matthew Norman article.

    Sorry Bob Mack , I just get ANGRY!

  122. Robert Louis says:

    Oh boy, I just about fell off my seat laughing at the Question asked by SNP MP Callum McCaig today at Prime Minister’s questions,

    “Can I ask the Prime minister, does she really believe the UK can afford to be an independent country?”

    Excellent. Truly excellent. GIRFUY Westminster.

  123. manandboy says:

    Norway envies Scotland for at least 2 reasons – whisky being one, but the other biggy is the English language which is worth a fortune to Scotland not least when trading internationally.

  124. harry mcaye says:

    Just skimming through this, but I take it folk know Sky News used Kevin Hague’s figures as an on screen source on Monday?

  125. Marker Post says:

    I can’t wait until Theresa May does her UK-wide tour to unify the country. Because when she sneers that, “Scotland is leaving the EU no matter what”, then she really does risk UDI.

    But what really, really pisses me off with those types of remark is not so much her, it’s that Dugdale says nothing in return, because it would be “too divisive”. Surely, Kezia, there comes a point where you have to stand up for your country?

    Will these May elections be a game-changer? Will Labour do so badly that Kezia will resign the next day? And will her replacement actually stand up to the arrogance and bile from the country that Kezia wants to belong to forever and ever amen?

  126. Vestas says:

    People if some of you carry on like this you’ll end up with a stroke/aneurism long before the vote.

    We’ve had this all before. Its the same old shite. We all know that. So try not to let it annoy you unless its aimed at you personally.

    When they have something new in Project Fear 2 which seems to work THEN start getting agitated.

    One thing I would say is that if you see any social media/blog/whatever stuff with even the slightest hint of inciting/inflicting violence then report it to the cops. Both sides, not just the yoons.

    I’m fairly sure that around December a FoI request to Police Scotland would show the true nature of things. I say December because you probably won’t get it until June 2018 😉

    tl;dr calm down peeps. Long road ahead with plenty of potholes. Loads of abuse incoming (as last time), shrug it off.

  127. heedtracker says:

    Scots need to ask themselves why they’re looking out of the bus window, at pleasant looking people in £120K Bentley’s, porsches, mercs and beemers, on the way to that slave wage, zero hour contract job.

    Its not by chance. Its all down to very rich dudes like Crash Gordo, Lord Flipper, George Osborne, latest tory chancer Hammond and on it goes in teamGB.

  128. manandboy says:

    Theresa May is in trouble. Let’s see how she gets out of it, if at all.

    Kezia is a different kettle of fish and in a very much lower league. Totally out of her depth, utterly dependent on PR scripts and is an object of pity. Lives in a fantasy world. It is very difficult to see a political future for her of any meaningful kind whatsoever. Her only asset is she’s a well kent face.

  129. heedtracker says:

    Guardian hysterical as ever, last hour of that crew running around Scotland trying to stamp out Scottish democracy, shock

    Scottish independence Opinion
    Nicola Sturgeon can’t rely on Brexit to win Scottish independence
    John Curtice

    Scottish independence
    Scottish independence: May set to refuse referendum until after Brexit
    UK prime minister expected to argue that holding vote before final EU deal is agreed would be premature and misleading

    It was Severin Carrell what saved England’s control!

  130. Colin Dawson says:

    One example I looked into about a year ago was the cost of Benefits. If you go to the DWP website, it can tell you how many people claim what benefits and what part of the country they live in. If you ask for the cost of these benefits, it takes an average cost per claimant for the whole of the UK and multiplies it by the number of claimants in the locality. This is patently absurd. The cost per person of many benefits is substantially higher in London than in Scotland (e.g. Housing Benefit) so the DWP statistics are grossly overstating the costs of benefits in Scotland and grossly understating them for London. Since every benefit claimant has an address and postcode, there is no reason why accurate figures cannot be produced but the DWP chooses not to do this.

    The DWP figures for benefits costs cannot be trusted. How many other public expenditure figures are distorted in a similar manner?

  131. Effijy says:

    Well Done again Rev!

    This where people like you and the Cuthberts are so incredibly important to our cause.

    Very few of us could ever carry out research to this level and nail these Unionist Liars to the floor.

    Yet another reason to be rid of the lying, scheming, house of corruption that is the Westminster Government.

    3 years ago, I would never have believed the levels of masking and distorting of the truth that takes place on a daily basis, across the entire range of UK media.

    If only we had our own Radio or TV Channel.
    People could become educated!

    There’s a thought there was a Lanarkshire TV Channel for a time.
    After the May Council Elections in North and South Lanarkshire, the SNP may be able to resurrect it with Real Programming?

  132. Clapper57 says:

    Indy Ref has certainly put a spanner in the works re Brexit negotiations with EU….how on earth will UKOK be able to negotiate new trade deals in respect to anything Scottish when Indy Ref on cards…..If MAY dictates that Indy Ref MUST be POST BREXIT negotiations then anything relating to Scotland would surely be non binding in event of pro Independence vote …surely ?

    How can EU accept trade deal with UK on Scottish matters ?

    How will EU respond to trade relating to Scotland when negotiating with UKOK ?

    Oh my God the backlash from Brexiteers towards Scotland will be a torrent of momentous sweaty Jock ridden abuse…pretty much same as now actually lol….

    Cannot deny May has backed herself into a corner through her own arrogant position re Scotland….hell mend her and her tyrannical rule I say. What comes around goes around…Amen to that.

    Extreme right wing Tories must be seething und pure ragin…much gnashing of teeth…heard John Redwood was apoplectic …cause he know…oh he know what this could mean hee hee hee…. LOL…BLOL..

  133. Iain says:

    One of the sobering aspects of post-graduate study is the realisation that you will never know everything in your own field. Even if it’s a tiny field, and you are the top dog, there will always be something new to learn, and your previous assumptions will change.

    And particularly, you know that people in other fields of academia are so far advanced in their own speciality that the notion of disputing aspects of it with them simply wouldn’t occur to you.

    KH has no more than a good BSc in engineering. Why on earth does he think he argue economics with highly qualified economists? It makes him look limited and dim.

  134. alistair says:

    And here we go. The hootsmon now superficially trumpeting figures from Prof. McLaren that Scotland would have 11bn deficit in 2019/20 compared to rUK which will be close to zero at same point.
    (He obviously has a better source of data than the other sources quoted in the article).
    It would be interesting if someone could ask him to explain/quantify the revenues and expenditure that the figures are based on, and what figures were used for the “EU divorce bill” and drop in revenues for rUK.

  135. Flower of Scotland says:

    What a fantastic piece Rev. Stu!

    I’m keeping this. Great comments Wingers!

    Who needs nasty Britnat media, we have our own, and it’s much better!

  136. galamcennalath says:

    Vestas says:

    People if some of you carry on like this you’ll end up with a stroke/aneurism long before the vote.

    I was just think that!

    Things will improve (for our health) when on the ground YES campaigning begins. Getting out and about. Some of that for the Council elections, stalls, leafleting etc..

    As for the online stuff, it’s suddenly taken several jumps upward in intensity. Definitely not healthy swimming in shite day after day!

  137. manandboy says:

    Is it just me, or is life as we have known it, actually undergoing a series of tectonic changes, that will require a new way of thinking in order to be able to live with it.

    I suspect one of the first casualties will be ‘a quiet life’. Another will be for everything to ‘calm down’. Yet another, ‘our way of life’.

    Since 2012, we’ve already had 5 years of political turmoil and social grief, and it may well have only just begun, as Brexit brings us all the labour pains of a new era.

    Independence is a choice at the moment. Soon, it may very well be an absolute necessity.

  138. heedtracker says:

    Oops! Three in a row hello from Graun, UKOK hysterics after just 2 days is like watching a fireworks display. No idea who Gile Tremlett but judging by the moniker, he’s clearly one more of the Graun’s horny handed working class heroes, to save teamGB etc,

    Scottish independence
    Why Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to join the EU
    Giles Tremlett
    An independent Scotland’s route to EU membership would be easier, and possibly quicker, if the SNP delayed until after Brexit

  139. heedtracker says:

    Awe, here is Giles Tremlet

    Giles Tremlett
    Giles Tremlett is the Guardian’s Madrid correspondent. He has lived in, and written extensively about, Spain almost continuously since graduating from Oxford University twenty years ago.

    What a surprise:D

  140. jfngw says:

    @Alistair 5:41

    It’s unfathomable, why are they not just saying no need for a referendum you already have a mandate to leave.

    They are not really interested in you, me or anyone in Scotland. But the resources, the resources, they need them.

  141. Nana says:


    For anyone who missed the phone in referendum special with Alex Salmond. Watch it here

  142. Undeadshaun says:

    Tories being investigated by police for electoral fraud in general election.

    If found guilty might this make brexit void as if no majority, cameron could not have called brexit referendum?

  143. yesindyref2 says:

    Article’s great.
    Looking at the map of that petition to stop the Ref, and there’s about an average of 70 per constituency over England, NI and Wales @ 590 constutencies = 41,500 from 127,000 = 85,500.

    Democratically they’ve a ways to go yet – wonder if Westminster will care?

  144. galamcennalath says:

    alistair says:

    …deficit in 2019/20 compared to rUK which will be close to zero ….. what figures were used for the “EU divorce bill” and drop in revenues for rUK.

    Indeed. Sounds like an Alice in Brexit Wonderland piece of fiction to me too.

    One of the few certainties of this Brexit fiasco is that the UK/rUK is going to be in a poorer economic state for years to come.

    The Brexit Project is all about right wing ideology fused with rampant blood and soil nationalism which all comes with a substantial cost. Pretending otherwise seems foolish.

  145. Vestas says:

    @manandboy 5:47 pm :

    “Is it just me, or is life as we have known it, actually undergoing a series of tectonic changes, that will require a new way of thinking in order to be able to live with it.”

    I suspect not 🙂

    If you’re referring to the way the internet/various social media nets interact then maybe.

    My daughter & I had a discussion about that today at lunch & the consensus seemed to be that twitter enabled idiots to sway more idiots. I paraphrase here but she said “the only reason to have a twitter account is for live footie scores”.

    The discussion started up about Trump & how my daughter had spotted Trump getting past the POTUS account filters by retweeting one of his personal accounts.

    /me shrugs 🙂

  146. jfngw says:

    Dugdale now giving maths lessons:

    10 / 4 = 4

    Good grief, did she go to school when Labour ran education. Lets hope she never is control of Scotland’s finances.

  147. icyspark says:

    OK, people, you know what to do. Share this far and wide. We need to debunk the nonsense that we are in a worse economic position compared to 2014.

    Simon Wren-Lewis, Professor of economic policy at the Blavatnik School of government at Oxford University and a fellow of Merton College:

    “The bottom line is that the case for Scottish independence is now much stronger than it was in 2014.”

  148. alistair says:

    @jfngw 5:52

    Our inevitable, humungous debt that we won’t be able to manage is about as annoying as the constantly quoted size of the UK market to Scotland.
    Where do those figures come from, clearly showing Scottish exports shipped from transit through other UK ports correctly assigned as Scottish and not rUK. Plus a clear delineation of all vat and corporation tax derived revenue from Scottish based operations.
    Like the analysis of GERS, they conveniently don’t exist.
    Another one for Rev Stu to turn his attention to !

  149. An aside, I see this woman Allison Pearson is attempting to influence the content of the Referendum question by asserting that ‘most Scots will vote to ‘Stay’ in the Yookay.
    Brewer hinted at another form of question to avoid the pro independence YES response,on his wee prog the other day. It will still be hard to sell No, even more so now.
    Well, I’ve got news for you Onions:
    The question will not be revised to read:-

    ‘Should Scotland Stay in the UK?’
    Good try, but no cigar.

  150. jfngw says:

    @alistair 6:09

    The negatives will only be highlighted by the MSM, I can’t see any way a fair media coverage of the referendum is going to take place. It’s an uphill struggle but hopefully the facts can be spread. As with the Elmar Brok interview, cut off promptly when BBC realised he wasn’t saying want they wanted, this will continue.

  151. G4jeepers says:

    Re the fooking zoomer

    You tube “Christopher Eccleston reciting Evidently Chickentown” to see how it’s really done.

  152. Doug Mcg says:

    Just seen an item on Scotnews about the old Royal High School building and its proposed use as an hotel which doesn’t seem to be gathering much support. I would suugest that it would make a perfect English embassy building.

  153. heedtracker says:

    O/T is the Fluffster helping the police with their expenses fraud election wise, again?

    Police have confirmed they are investigating a complaint of an alleged breach of election expenses rules by Scotland’s only Tory MP.
    It follows newspaper reports that a bill for £700 had been omitted from David Mundell’s campaign costs.
    Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary said it had been asked to investigate.

    Not so future Lord Fluffie must have a wing named after him in that cop shop by now.

  154. jfngw says:

    Just watched the Rev’s angry man twitter link, really funny.

    The Rev failed to mention which Gov minister has this person as their permanent secretary, their eloquence has somewhat deteriorated since the days of the First Minister programmes.

  155. heedtracker says:

    G4jeepers says:
    15 March, 2017 at 6:17 pm
    Re the fooking zoomer

    Will the EU community of so many different people miss them:D

  156. Clapper57 says:

    Absolutely LOVE YOUTUBE video captured by Stu….what with the fluffed words……UK…EU…UK…obvs fluffed as he couldnae wait to unleash the torrent of abuse………………… Wahahahahhaha….pure comedy gold….wot a geezer….disappointed YOUTUBE took it down…..I mean initially he was looking at his notes to REMEMBER percentages so HE HAD DONE his RESEARCH YOUTUBE wahahaha….my whole family have now watched this and we had to watch again because it was so so funny…..hope he comes up to Edinburgh Fringe … show obvs …he could call it ‘Irony and Me’ BLOL…..oh the banter …please watch it pure 1st class comedy gold……what a laddie….I had to change my underpants three times …oops I did it again.

  157. Cadogan Enright says:

    RT has an Australian so called professor from Kingston giving his opinion on Brexit , Scotland et al 18:50 to 18:58

    Trouble is he does not no the difference between England and Britain

    poor job for RT

  158. mogabee says:

    Kevin will be worried he loses his television income *cough as a highly respected but barking economist…

  159. Jock McDonnell says:

    It’s gonna be EFTA folks,
    Which is nice.
    Time to gen up on the rules n regulations.

  160. jfngw says:

    The Rennie doctrine on display with their ppl. The UK should have a second referendum on the EU exits proposals, but if this is rejected then the Scots should be denied a referendum on the same deal.

    This man claims to be pro-EU and representing Scotland’s interests, hold on till I reposition my donkey ears.

  161. Ann says:

    We can only lose the next referendum and the deficit is going to be one of the major Obstacles.
    Surely there is nothing to stop the SNP to hire one of the major accountancy firms to demand access to all records of VAT, Income Tax etc. and get true figures.
    Can you imagine what would happen to you or I we produced annual tax returns without proof of every penny coming and going in a financial year.
    I’m sure someone like Delotte would be quite happy to provide this service.

  162. Bob Mack says:

    It became obvious today that May is trying to force Scotland out of the EU against its will. The loss of Scotland will devastate the English credit rating and mean that all the brass plates of companies would come North of the border in addition to financial sector businesses.

    We would expand rapidly and May views this as a threat to England. She must stall us whilst she sets England up as a tax shelter to try and keep the financial investment which is worth billions.

    She is doing this for England ,not the UK.

  163. Albert Herring says:

    I understand requests were made to UKgov for true figures in 2014, but these were refused. Apparently Cameron said we could see the books if YES won.

    Why this wasn’t brought up at every available opportunity is beyond my understanding.

    Why won’t they show us the books?
    Aye, but, why won’t they show us the books?
    What’s this deficit of which you speak? Let’s see the books.

  164. Shinty says:

    Yesindyref2 – re:petition to stop the Ref

    Happened to be up about 3.30 this morning and had a look at this petition. You would not believe how quick the numbers were clocking up at that time in the morning. I mean it was like looking at an Avaaz worldwide petition they way that clock was going. For a nation of around 2 million no voters most of them seem to be insomniacs. LOL.

  165. Capella says:

    Hope this will play OK. Short video cartoon of the BREXIT complications. UK is doomed.

  166. gordoz says:

    O/T Martin Lewis Website

    Can I suggest everybody on WoS votes on this online poll as it will no doubt appear somewhere.

    Quite big numbers

  167. Nana says:


    Live now with @weegingerdug at @ScotNational roadshow in Edinburgh

  168. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Clapper57 @ 17:39, Bob Mack @ 19:21,

    You are both dead right. It’s about England taking Scotland prisoner so it can’t be a competitor, and a very vibrant one to be feared, at that.

    This whole “Brexit with Indy” isn’t a can of worms, it’s a whole meta-universe of worms. I don’t think anyone has a clue yet what it all signifies.

    But one thing seems clear. If the Mayhem Gang think that delaying indy till after Brexit is their “get out of jail card”, they are mistaken. The mere prospect of an independence referendum on the horizon will be enough to deny them any right to conclude an agreement with the EU27, or indeed anybody else, involving any Scottish rights or resources. Since otherwise they could sell off the country and its contents beforehand, lock, stock and barrel, and leave us with absolutely nothing. Talk about “selling the family silver”!

    If she were wise, TM would pick up the phone, call Nicola and agree an amicable separation on the spot. Better to get it done and out of the way, then move on with some credit for recognising the inevitable rather than suffering loss of face from a referendum result. Judging from what I’ve heard about yoonatic rhetoric, TM would have no political price to pay at home either (where it matters to her). Maybe even the contrary.

    Unlikely, I admit. Wisdom is in short supply, and UKGov power-hoarding instincts are far too entrenched.

  169. gordoz says:

    O/T Sorry forgot to say Scotland & Norn Irn voting pro ‘Scottish Independence’

    England and Wales against 🙁 (Come on Wales??!)

  170. jfngw says:

    @Albert Herring 7:21

    It’s done the same way the BBC does financing of the Nations. Money is allocated as Nation spend, but you will find that lots of this money is actually not being spent in the Nation. The vast majority of the new £20m network spend will more than likely result in a couple of jobs in Scotland and the production being made more often than not in England. Even when they use the studio at PQ lots of the senior roles are people flown up from London but a BBC Scotland logo will be slapped on it.

    Also note that I have been informed the new Scotland channel will not be in HD, had a feeling this might be the case.

  171. heedtracker says:

    gordoz says:
    15 March, 2017 at 7:48 pm
    O/T Martin Lewis Website

    I live in Scotland (9568 votes)
    Yes to Scottish independence 6326 votes (66%)
    No to Scottish independence 3202 votes (33%)
    I’d abstain 40 votes (0%)

    Also, I just did 12 minutes of situps:D

  172. heedtracker says:

    I live in England (10354 votes)
    Yes to Scottish independence 3607 votes (35%)
    No to Scottish independence 6411 votes (62%)
    I’d abstain 333 votes (3%)

    This does seem like a great poll.

  173. gordoz says:


    Weird how Scotland & England polar opposite (almost)

    What the Hell is wrong in Wales ???

  174. Albert Herring says:

    Has any pollster ever done an English indy poll?

  175. gordoz says:

    @ Albert Herring

    Err wasn’t the the Brexit thingy ??

  176. jfngw says:


    ‘Come on Wales’

    I believe Allison Pearson is Welsh, it seems to be just Lesser England now.

  177. heedtracker says:

    What the Hell is wrong in Wales ???

    The Welsh are a defeated people. They love it when you tell them that too:D

    But a lot of Wales are so far from self government in their minds, and Scottish independence is going to diminish England a hell of a lot, they clearly do not want the biggy’s to lose out.

  178. Sunniva says:

    Wales just has a large English population.

    Interesting that a majority in Northern Ireland think we should be independent.

  179. FergusMac says:

    Wales has a large and militant settler population of English people. They object loudly to Welsh people speaking Welsh, for example, swearing (quite literally, I have heard them) that the Welsh only speak their own language in their own country to annoy and spite decent English settlers. I strongly suspect that they provided a large chunk of the Brexit vote.

    You can imagine what their view of rebellious Scots is – Send in General Wade!

  180. Capella says:

    O/T Exit polls say that the Dutch PM Mark Rutte has won the election. Geert Wilders’ anti-immigration party trailing behind. BREXITEERS will be so disappointed.

  181. heedtracker says:

    You can imagine what their view of rebellious Scots is – Send in General Wade!

    Virginia Wade more like.
    is very very pro YES Scotland and certainly wants Welsh devo max. She also has a cracking arse:D

    Its the sit ups, and that moneysavingexpert poll, endorphins.

  182. Legerwood says:

    But on economics -sort of

    Story in the Telegraph on line saying that BBC reporter – you know who – alerted Hammond to the manifesto promise about NI

    “”Asked when he first knew the manifesto was an issue, he told a fellow MP: “Since he asks me the question who first raised the issue of the manifesto I think credit where credit is due. I think it was actually Laura Kuenssberg on the BBC, shortly after I said it in the Budget speech.”””

  183. heedtracker says:

    LeanneWood Retweeted
    Plaid Cymru?Verified account @Plaid_Cymru Mar 13
    “Do we want to be part of an EnglandandWales entity perpetually ruled by Tories or do we want something better?” @LeanneWood tells @ITVWales

  184. Bob Mack says:


    It was actually not Laura Kuennsberg. It was a member of the SNP who informed another SNP member who was talking. I don’t think Hammond wanted to mention that.
    That is why Alex Salmond asked the question.

  185. Robert Graham says:

    Why hasn’t this excellent examination of GERS not been given more coverage by the SNP , why’s it been left to the Rev to cover this, come on get into gear, watching the wee ginger dug (Paul Kavanagh ) on Livestream just now, what a speaker and NO Notes , covered every single point we will be questioned about, worth his weight in gold a great speaker.

  186. Iain More says:

    So just another love bomb from the Daily Goose steppers at the Daily Heil then.

  187. Glamaig says:

    Legerwood says:
    15 March, 2017 at 8:38 pm
    ‘Story in the Telegraph on line saying that BBC reporter – you know who – alerted Hammond to the manifesto promise about NI’

    Thats almost beyond parody if true. The Chancellor doesnt even know whats in his own party’s manifesto. Laura should also point out that staying in the Single Market was also in the Tory manifesto. Maybe they’ve forgotten that too.

    Good to be back here. Spent too long today BTL in dark places infested with Scot and SNP haters. Think I’ll just pour myself a nice wee malt.

  188. jfngw says:

    @Robert Graham

    If the SNP raise this they will be set upon by the UK media as denying and trying to cover up the deficit. It’s not as straightforward as telling the truth, not when nearly the whole media are waiting to pounce. Then pressed to produce the real figures but as they don’t have access to them, cannot. They will also be asked why they published these figures since 2008 without comment.

    The exposure of these facts really needs to be done outwith the SNP, no matter how frustrating it may be.

  189. Rock says:

    Nation Libre,

    “This is the sort of article that should be in The National instead of the airy-fairy items they cover and the nice graphic front pages. Let’s see some real analysis.”

    No chance.

    The National will continue to milk gullible independence supporters (9,000 at the last count) for as long as possible before making its excuses and stop publishing when the independence campaign gets going.

    It is not lack of funds or staff that stops The National from taking as strong a pro-independence stand as the anti-independence stand of its older sister, The Herald.

    Less gullible independence supporters will not have failed to notice that the author of this blog, by far the best pro-independence journalist around, has been avoided like the plague by the “independence supporting” The National.

  190. Rock says:

    Robert Graham,

    “Why hasn’t this excellent examination of GERS not been given more coverage by the SNP”

    What prevents the “independence supporting” The National from paying a reasonable fee to the Rev. Stuart Campbell to publish this article as front page headline news?

  191. heraldnomore says:

    Here we go again.

    Paper. Scissors. Time for Bed.

  192. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Anyone else hear 9.00 news on RS?

    Bizarre and creepy – sounded like Pamela Haveron was pished, or having a stroke. Sounded ‘normal’ by the end but I’ve never heard anything like that. Do they record the news in advance. Can’t think how else that mad effect might happen, unless it’s me ears…

  193. DerekM says:

    Well you cant really blame them for not wanting to be left all on their own with the country that was determined to erase their nationality from history heed.

    I think it is more a plea please dont leave us alone with these idiots lol

    I really feel for the Welsh they are up against it,however who knows once Scotland and NI break the UK it might open a door for them or at least give them some leverage so that westminster has to treat them good in case they decide to leave as well.

  194. Bob Mack says:

    Should the Rev write for the National ? What for ? He has more readers than the National. He has complete editorial control over Wings. He has a community rather than just a publication.

    No ,the Rev is just fine doing what he does,as he does thank you.

  195. Glamaig says:

    Capella says:
    15 March, 2017 at 8:30 pm
    O/T Exit polls say that the Dutch PM Mark Rutte has won the election

    I’m surprised, I thought the only candidate was G. Wilders and he was a shoo in. I get my information from the BBC.

    Is anybody standing against Le Pen in France?

  196. Legerwood says:

    Bob Mack @ 8.50 and Glamaig @ 8.51

    The plot thickens. Hammond certainly would not want to give Mr Salmon any credit and neither would the Telegraph. Wonder if Ms Keunssberg comment? Rhetorical question

    Interesting times.

  197. caz-m says:

    Ian brotherhood 9.15pm

    I hear a lot of bizarre and creepy things on the BBC.

    It’s what they do.

    Pour yourself a large one mate. LOL

  198. alexicon says:

    All nationalists should buy the National.
    Some people would like to see it fold so we don’t have a voice.
    Simples really.

  199. jfngw says:

    BBC newsroom journalists gutted at Netherlands result, chance for fame and honours on hold. They are now relying in LePen to deliver them from this abyss of EU unity.

  200. Bob Mack says:

    I subscribe monthly to the National and will continue to do so. I am old enough to make up my own mind what purpose it serves, others have their view ,and I have mine

  201. Hermodr says:

    Decent news from NL. Shame that they’ll have another Tory government, like. The so-called ‘Nexit’ was never gonna happen, though. Wilders getting more votes than anyone else was unlikely enough; but even if he had he wouldn’t have been able to force through any kind of change, let alone leaving the EU. As we all know, the British press were gleefully reporting otherwise.

    GIRUY to all the people who were cackling at Europe’s “imminent collapse”. They’ll be getting their Le Pen t-shirts oot noo, the pr1cks.

    Wangland, it’s just you. Only you.

    Oh, that’s me just caught up with all the posts from the last 3 days. Excellent reading as ever, folks, and thank you for that. I especially loved the last No-to-Yes video – they’re all really good, but this was probably the best one yet.

  202. caz-m says:

    English media are desperate for another country to go off the cliff with them.

    They were hoping for the Dutch to vote in a right wing nut. It won’t happen.

    They will turn to France next and hope Le Pen wins. They are also hoping that Germany votes in an anti EU candidate.

    It is not going to happen, since the Brexit vote support for the EU has increased in these countries.

    England are going off the cliff all by themselves.

  203. Again, in case anybody missed it

    “The bottom line is that the case for Scottish independence is now much stronger than it was in 2014.”

  204. call me dave says:

    Give it a look if you haven’t been there today.

    The National is OK a good read bought two today, left it in the cafe. 🙂

    The X-word had William Wolfe, Wendy Wood and Gordon Wilson in it today

    That Mundell in erection investigation whisper might just be the 2010 story about £700 expenses getting thrown in in error.

    Pity it would have been a big story!

  205. caz-m says:


    Monaco just kicked Man City out of the Champions League.

    Just sayin!

  206. Glamaig says:

    call me dave says:
    15 March, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    That Mundell in erection investigation

    Goodness me

  207. Bob Mack says:

    @Call me Dave,
    Freudian slip in the third last line Dave !!

  208. North chiel says:

    ” undeadshaun” @ 0557pm , how convenient that the election fraud story has been ignored
    since the general election. Howevever, if the establishment wish to have a GE perhaps over
    Brexit, which requires another ” Tory leadership coup” ( as per the most recent one), then this
    can be conveniently arranged with the ” election expenses ” fiddle resurfacing especially if Scottish independence looks ” increasingly likely” in the medium term. Assuredly , the establishment will ” ditch TM ” ( with the usual men in grey suits scenario ) , if Nicola appears to be increasingly likely to
    win Indyref2. As I stated some time ago on an earlier post , the real and absolute fear of the Westminster establishment is not in fact the relatively ” mild” doomsday scenario of Brexit, but the ” absolutely unmitigated catastrophic & cataclysmic” loss of Scotland to the ” Westminster imperial masters” .
    If another ” coup” is required to ” cancel Brexit or negotiate with Nicola” , IT WILL BE ARRANGED , come what “MAY” .

  209. schrodingers cat says:

    if buying the national keeps the wgd and lesley riddoch employed, that in itself is enough reason, the rev manages very well without it

    all 3 are star performers

  210. jfngw says:

    Another inspiring tweet from Dugdale, we only have false hope.

    The Labour and Tory reunion
    Is only a motion away

    To misquote Paul Simon.

  211. scottieDog says:

    @Cadogan Enright
    RT has an Australian so called professor from Kingston giving his opinion on Brexit , Scotland et al 18:50 to 18:58

    That sounds like steve keen. He was very down on scottish independence in 2014. Think his comment was that the finance system would dwarf the economy. I think there seems to be lack of understanding that we don’t want to be a mini Britain.

    It’s a shame as keen is a fantastic economist who called out the financial crisis long before it happened.

    Be good to get him onside but he supported brexit

  212. Macart says:

    @call me dave

    Oooo err missus! 😮

  213. jfngw says:

    Call Me Dave @9:52

    Don’t think the Mundell thing will stand up it’s own, maybe someones been manipulating it.

  214. laukat says:

    Its now nearly two days since the FM’s announcement and I’m still amazed about what a masterstroke it was. I really don’t see a way forward for May and the UK. She has only 3 options as far as I can see

    1. Deny the section 30 request. I would expect the FM to call a Scottish election which in turn would provide the FM with a renewed mandate and probable majority whilst at the same time plainly insulting every Scottish voter. Even most Unionists would agree this is suicide.

    2. May allows section 30 but tries to delay the date until 2020 or 2021. As John Curtice outlined today demographic changes over time will lead to a Yes majority. This coupled with the perception that she would be both running scared , interfering with Scotland’s wishes and the full horrors of Brexit starting to feed through means she would lose.

    3. May allows the Section 30 on the FM’s dates and terms. If May does this it looks to the rest of the UK like the FM has May over a barrel. To the EU she would look weak and further undermine a very weak negotiating position. Not only would she lose the referendum she might be ousted by the right wing of her party before the end of the year.

    May was expecting Sturgeon to announce after she had issued article 50 to the EU. That would have allowed May to show the rabid right wing press that she was in charge of the Brexit process & timetable whilst presenting Sturgeon as a sideshow. May has no idea right now how to deal with Sturgeon’s announcement on Monday hence she is playing for time by delaying the article 50 notification and trying to throw in diversions by reversing the NIC decision. The Tory expenses is to me another large squirrel to play for time.

    I think its fair to say that the FM and the SNP know this and are now goading May (see FM’s tweets on mandate and Angus Robertson and Calum McCaig’s questioning today). They know she needs to pick an option, she knows to pick an option and they all know that all options lead to Scottish Independence. The goading will ensure she loses her temper and chooses the wrong option.

  215. Gfaetheblock says:

    Scotland will be brexiting.

    So the choice will between brexit in the U.K. or brexit to independence.

    This proposed referendum window is too late to prevent Scotland leaving the EU.

  216. schrodingers cat says:

    ukippers dream of a independent uk, the one fly in the ointment is the eu.
    even they cant ignore or dismiss the largest trading block in the world.
    while it remains it is a threat to there plans. that is why farage spends so much time undermining the eu and supporting other eu groups like the national front and interveiwing marine le penn.

    farage will be very dissapointed by the dutch result tonight.
    good. brexit’s success depends on this years eu elections, they are failing, our success is linked to brexits failure

  217. Rock says:

    Bob Mack,

    “Should the Rev write for the National ? What for ? He has more readers than the National. He has complete editorial control over Wings. He has a community rather than just a publication.”

    It is not a question of the Rev. writing for The National.

    It is a question of the “independence supporting” The National publishing the Rev.’s excellent articles as front page headline news.

    The National claims to be short of staff and resources.

    I am sure the Rev. wouldn’t demand exorbitant fees for The National to publish his articles.

    Despite relentless promotion of The National by posters on this website, some of whom claim to buy multiple copies, The National’s sells merely 9,000 copies.

    As for The National being hidden in shops, I would suggest it is on the instructions of The National’s unionist milkers.

    They know that gullible independence supporters will search for them and buy them even if they are hidden.

    But they don’t want unionists to notice or buy them.

  218. Capella says:

    @ Glamaig
    Is anybody standing against Le Pen in France?

    Only some right wing chap with a Welsh wife who’s under investigtion by the police. Much like UK. So fingers crossed!

  219. caz-m says:

    schrodingers cat 10.31pm

    Totally agree. The Kippers thought that country after country would head for the EU Exit door. It isn’t going to happen.

    England will be alone, isolated and skint.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer shower.

  220. call me dave says:

    Wha…t… FGS! and I was in the Apostolics for a long while as a younger person, repressed.

    As the Ma Broon might say “I’m black affronted” 🙁

  221. Robert Louis says:

    I agree with others, that the news from Holland is good. The mad brexiteers were seriously hoping for new allies. Next they will be talking up le Pen in France, in the hope she wins there.

    Meanwhile, back in Scotland, if you haven’t read ‘The National’ newspaper yet, give it a try, either in print or in digital. Sadly some shops seem to hide it near the bottom, but many, like Scotmid have them on full display. They have wee ginger dug, Greg Moodie, and the likes of Pat Kane and Lesley Riddoch writing for them. It needs our support, since despite its minor flaws, it is the only paper supporting independence.

  222. heedtracker says:

    Another bad night for our toryboy imperial masters, in the Netherlands. Oh how the Ligger, Nic Robinson etc hoped this would never happen, cant wait for the tory spin to explain lefties on the up in the evil EU,

    5m ago
    Angela Merkel congratulates Rutte

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has congratulated Mark Rutte on his party’s strong showing in the 2017 election in a telephone conevrsation. According to Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert, she said:

    I look forward to working with you as friends, neighbours and Europeans.

  223. ronnie anderson says:

    @ North chiel 10.03 That scenario is awaiting dependant on how long it takes the Electoral Commission / Police to conclude they’re investigations . A UK general election wipes the slate clean & that would suit Westminster Establishment.

  224. heedtracker says:

    Guy Verhofstadt
    2 hrs ·
    Facebook Mentions
    First exit polls look great! The VVD is by far the biggest party (31 seats). D66 is up by a lot (with 19 seats the second force). The pro-European parties are on the rise. The Netherlands remains a liberal and pro-European stronghold!

  225. Dr Jim says:

    It’s unfortunate for the rUK that it wants to cut itself off from Scotland which will be part of the largest trading block in the world

    I’m not sniggering, I’m not

    Wee bit, well


  226. heedtracker says:

    This has to be partly down to Farage, UKIPer idiots, BBC tory gimps such the Ligger, all praying that the EU breaks apart. The Dutch watch BBC grot too.

    21m ago
    GreenLeft leader hailed as the “Jessiah”

    Jon Henley Jon Henley
    Jon Henley has this piece from the night on the surprise gains for the GreenLeft.

    The big winner of Wednesday’s Dutch election – and now the largest party of the left for the first time – was GreenLeft, headed by 30-year-old Jesse Klaver, hailed by his enthusiastic supporters as the “Jessiah”.

    According to a generally reliable Ipsos exit poll, the party, formed 25 years ago by a merger of communists, pacifists, evangelicals and self-styled radicals, quadrupled its MPs from four to 16 after a storming campaign by Klaver.

  227. galamcennalath says:

    “Richard Murphy –
    Tax justice campaigner. Professor of Practice in International Political Economy, City, University of London. Chartered accountant. Author of The Joy of Tax”

    From Twitter…

    “I do not support any political party if that’s the question. But would I vote yes? I would: only rational choices

  228. Alan Mackintosh says:

    From Stu’s twitter. David Davies and the Brexit committee.

    Nice to see they’ve thought it all out. 40% tariff on Agri anyone…?

    Loss of Financial passporting…

  229. cearc says:

    Mr. Davis’s meeting with Brexit select committee was rather drowned out by the U-turn immediately afterwards, so if you missed it and wish to be impressed by the knowledge and wisdom of his plan and replies, here are some notes from Faisal Islam’s twitter account.

    “Almost certainly have to have rules of origin arrangements and some sort of inspection arrangement, perhaps electronic” says David Davis

    Benn: Trade Sec says its bad, you say “not as good”, Foreign Sec says “probably okay”
    Davis: I give factual answers not throwaway lines

    Benn: Given this do you think leaving with no deal would be bad?
    Davis: havent mentioned upsides, for 60% trade could relax things other way

    Davis: Yes I did brief the Cabinet on No Deal, part of a rigorous process across every Department of State… can mitigate impacts.

    Benn: Have you made an economic estimate of No Deal?
    Davis: Under my time, No.

    Benn: can you confirm that in the absence of data adequacy decision from Commission, legal uncertainty about data transfer?
    Davis: not clear

    Benn: Can you confirm UK citizens will no longer have access to the EHIC health card?
    Davis: Probably right. Haven’t looked at it

    Benn: Can you confirm that it would mean loss of passporting rights for fin services?
    Davis: would expect that to be the case…uncertain

    Benn: So UK will no longer be part of US-EU Open Skies agreement?
    Davis: Not that agreement, one would presume that would not apply to us…

    Benn: that means will have to be customs checks between Northern Ireland and Republic?
    Davis: already customs checks, done in light way

    Benn: so there will be tariffs, so e.g. UK producers of dairy and meat will be facing 30-40% tariffs, cars 10%?
    Davis: Approximately correct

    Davis to Benn “presumption of No Deal is literally that a presumption of WTO Most Favoured Nation status, which means there will be tariffs”

    Davis tells @EmmaReynoldsMP that Royal Assent tomorrow for Article 50 Bill – no two week delay: “Why rush?” Says people were “guessing” yday

    “In about a year’s time” Brexit Secretary David Davis says he’ll be able to quantify the effects of No Deal Brexit, with mitigation factors

    Ah, how reassuring to have such and well prepared and well informed government at WM!

  230. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for going O/T here folks but just seen this and was wondering what the facial identification experts on here think.

    Could this be the “lovely” individual who has been “winning” hearts and minds across Scotland all day today with his foul mouthed rant on You Tube.

  231. Marker Post says:

    You have to admire the sheer arrogance and hypocrisy of Mundell.

    David Mundell told the Herald newspaper: “It would be impossible for people in the timescale suggested by Nicola Sturgeon to make a reasoned view and, therefore, have a legal, fair and decisive referendum as we did in 2014 on the basis of the facts as they would be aware of them at that point”

    But David, where were the facts in the Brexit referendum? Where were the reasoned arguments then? Or in 2014 for that matter?

    It actually goes beyond hypocrisy. I think we will need a new lexicon to describe the Tories in the coming months.

  232. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    For anyone who missed Nicola on channel 4 earlier

    Thanks for the link 🙂

    Nicola is stateswoman and a leader. Scotland is lucky to have her at the helm at this difficult time.

  233. Bob Mack says:

    @Arbroath 1320,

    Yep, same guy.

  234. CameronB Brodie says:

    It may appear cruel but I firmly believe that sparing the rod spoils the child, or was that metaphorically giving mad Yoons a good kicking when they are down?

    @K___n H___e@BBC
    The scope and depth of your ignorance is truly alarming. Have you no understanding of how economies are shaped by cultures and that autonomy stimulates locally defined practices and processes (i.e. locally defined cultural development)? Do you not appreciate that decision making processes are improved through local connectivity, which unlocks the potential for empathy towards others and is essential to enabling inclusive approaches towards sustainable development? I don’t see HMG being particularly empathetic or inclusive towards Scotland, frankly.

    You’re a magical thinker lost in the realms of a cult fantasy and the megalomania of your own over-inflated ego. Get smart or get lost.

    On the Semiotic Mechanism of Culture

  235. Glamaig says:

    Thats good news the GreenLeft have done well in Holland. Hope they are in the government. They are in the same group as SNP in EuroParliament and very supportive of Scotland.

  236. Arbroath1320 says:

    Once I realised there were more pictures of him further down the page I came to the same conclusion for certain Bob. I had only looked at the one picture at the top of the page earlier. … DUH!

  237. Karmanaut says:

    I don’t believe that guy on Scotnight, BTW. That argument seemed straight from BT. Textbook. You would have voted No if you felt like that, surely?

  238. jfngw says:

    @Marker Post 11:11

    The other irony from Mundell is the time from EU referendum bill & referendum was well under a year. But somehow 18 months notice of a Scottish referendum is totally inadequate. Anyone with half a brain can see the Tory objections are, I don’t know how else to put it, brainless.

    If we go by the Tompkins doctrine all Scottish parliament bills since it was re-instated, except 2011-16 (maybe depends what his definition of majority is), are not legitimate.

  239. Nana says:

    galamcennalath you are welcome.

    In case you missed it I posted Alex Salmond on lbc referendum special upthread, worth watching. Also Paul WGD on livestream which was really good. He made some terrific points regarding the EU, Spanish veto etc.
    There was a young fellow from the national talking as well about distribution numbers.

  240. Brian McHugh says:

    So much for Europe falling apart after Brexit. It looks like Europe is Galvanising. The only thing I see falling apart are the Tory’s in Westminster.

  241. Effijy says:

    Can anyone else help Independence Live who’s fund raiser is short with only hours left until it closes?

    Independence Live & 24hours, SNP Conference+

    Please donate and share our crowdfunder, thank you for all the support!

  242. ScottishPsyche says:

    David Robertson,’Yes to No’ on Scotland Tonight sounds very much like an opportunistic Brexiteer who saw Scottish Independence as a way to leave the EU. Not very convinced by his argument to be honest.

    What an absolute joy to see Raging Kevin being confronted at last although he has managed to wheel out a couple of tame BT establishment economists to agree that estimates are OK. He’s doing a ‘ma da’s bigger than your da routine’ regarding his economists.

    You get the idea that even if the UK Treasury came out and said GERS are made up shit, Kev would still defend them.

  243. Hermodr says:

    Guardian being a tad too optimistic about NL, like. They say GreenLeft are the “big winners” but it’s not as great as that. There are loads of parties in NL, with 3 main left parties; and while GreenLeft have done very well, the left as a whole have almost certainly less seats than ever. It will be a centre-right government, headed by tories.

  244. Dr Jim says:

    I can’t stay silent any longer on this and honest to God I’m not a snob when it comes to language spelling or grammar….but

    By their spelling shall ye know them

    It just seems that this applies in massive percentage terms to the inhabitants of Yoonworld and it’s like school, any school anywhere never existed for these people
    They even misspell their own twitter names and biographies
    I’ll not do the examples as we’re all familiar with them, but they don’t even seem to make an effort to even check what they’re writing down or at least switch on some sort of assistance from their computing devices to aid them in their abuse

    Scotland tonight had a guy who was yes to no, he claimed,
    then proceeded to tell us about concerns for Africa and houses in the highlands followed by EU Baad, then came the clincher, Scotland can’t afford it so he’s sticking with the Tories and voting No

    I believed every word he said, I bet you did too

  245. Jim Manclark says:

    Andy Anderson and Ronnie Morrisons book called “Moving On” will explain all you need to know about a Scotland gaining full employment and the removal of the fractional reserve banking to replace with a nationalised Scottish central bank using our own currency. Screw gers, it is meaningless and all guesswork.

  246. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just in case it has not been posted earlier here is Alex Salmond raising a couple of points of order in the House of Commons today. The best bit is, in my view, the ending. For me it is well worth the wait. 😀

  247. Stephen McKenzie says:

    Nana 11:15 – well worth a look folks, if nothing else to count the number of times David Davis takes his glasses off!

    Davis was on the back foot and glad for the bell..

  248. Hermodr says:

    Still, no big deal. Europe is full o’ right-wing leaders; that’s nae our problem, because they’re the type of non-mad right-wingers who recognise the myriad downsides of Brexit and wouldn’t actually take a similar step. Hell, even Le Pen, last I heard, was backtracking on leaving single market.

    Another good day then. 🙂

  249. Claymore says:

    The guy on Scotland tonight who was claiming he was a yes but now he’s a no because we’re too poor, at the end he got annoyed at the lady who claimed she was a no to yes, I’m certain in his temper he uttered something like she voted yes last time… presenter ended it, I thought he was supposed to the yes to a no, anyone else catch it??? Did I hear things

  250. Brian McHugh says:

    Wow… Its been a while since I was in this debate (an extended sabatical since 2014), but clearly back in at the deep end.
    Just had a debate with some individual who first claimed Scotland was too wee. After pointing out that the likes of Luxembourg, Switzerland, Denmark and Norway were all small successful nations, I received this response… “What are you on about? We’re nothing like Norway, have you ever been there? It’s like the future compared to here, they have 97% clean electricity and Tesla’s run around as taxi’s ffs. Makes Scotland look like a third world country.”
    All I had to ask, was what is holding us back?

  251. ScottishPsyche says:


    Was it when he was talking about the taxi driver (female) who drove him to the studio and was also apparently a ‘Yes to No’ who coincidentally shared his priorities?!

  252. K1 says:

    Like many, delighted by the results coming through from Holland, well the fuck done…it’s well saying their electorate aren’t getting wall tae wall pish sprayed aw o’er them from mornin’ tae night telling them who’s ‘important’ enough tae vote fur. The smell o’ stale urine in BBC newsrooms the length of London must be boak inducing by now. We just need France tae haud steady…I’ve no doubt about Germany though…

  253. manandboy says:

    In the Dutch elections, exit polls prove yet again to be a very reliable guide to the eventual winner. There is a clear, consistent and reliable correlation between an exit poll and the result.
    The BBC always use them and the results always form the basis of the BBC’s through the night coverage of the count.
    Oh, with one exception – IndyRef14.

    An exit poll at ScotRef will keep it honest. The absence of an exit poll will be impossible to explain away.

  254. Big Phil says:

    Thank-You Nana,
    I love your links,ye’ve got me as a fan. You find them i’ll read(and watch) them.Engrossing stuff. Did i say Thank-You? Oh thank you,thank you,thank you. 🙂

  255. Liz g says:

    After reading as much as I could face, since the First Ministers announcement.
    I found it strange that not one Brexit voter Unionist or no, Scottish or no, even acknowledged that she might just have saved their arses.

    I don’t mean the Kipper’s or the mad Brit obeying their queen mob.
    But normal people who really don’t think the European project is right for their country.
    They surely can’t think that May and her Minions are able to handle this.

    The First Minister, I think, has just, put a stop to any horse trading with Scotland’s resources.
    And ofcourse she would, she had to because nobody elected in Scotland was going to be in the room.
    Can’t see why they were all so surprised to be honest!

    Therefore as,is,her job….She used Scotland’s “veto” not the pretendy Smith commission one.
    The real one…..The one the Scottish Electorate gave her last year,the only one Holyrood ever really needed.

    But the irony is that while Scotland’s resources are off the table for Westminster and it has to be said Brussels,any “deal” will, it seems to me,be impossible to make.
    Which at the very least should stop May from rushing into a hamfisted arrangements.

    No that I care we’ll be gone …. but ye would think that some would notice that they have potentially gained some breathing space.
    And other’s this side of the border regardless of their views on Independence could at least take note that the First Minister has made sure that everyone knows Scotland’s resources are not the Tories to bargain with,unless and until we say so,and one way or another we are getting to have a say.

  256. kenmath says:

    To return to the original article about GERS, as a retired CA, can I say that, if any of my staff had brought me a set of accounts for review and told me almost all the numbers are either estimates or outright guesses and that none of them have any audit trail that can be proved, I would have thrown the accounts in the bin and started looking for better staff right away.
    It speaks volumes about the shambles of governance and record-keeping in UK government that there are simply no accurate figures available.

  257. Still Positive says:

    Posted on a previous thread that Scottish exports are seriously undermined by the UK government.

    At our SNP branch meeting on Monday evening our MSP said that the SWA knew that their export figures were seriously undermined by UK figures.

    The Scottish Beef Industry ( appearing in front of a parliamentary committee ) said that they knew, since all cattle have electronic tags since the BSE crisis, that they knew what farm and in what field the cattle were grazed. They also knew which abattoir they were slaughtered and which country they were exported to, but, CRUCIALLY, not which port they were exported from.

    Says it all really – we have been shafted by the UK Government

  258. manandboy says:



    Popped up on my tablet from don’t know where. Merchandising T-shirts’n mugs. Can’t say as I fancy it. I take it the SHE refers to Nicola. Nah.

  259. TD says:

    I often find when I am debating the GERS figures (online debates usually but sometimes in person) that when I argue that the GERS figures and therefore the supposed deficit of £15billion is so much CRAP (Completely Rubbish APproximations), it is then pointed out to me that the figures are published by the Scottish government and the question is asked “Why?”

    I have to say I don’t know the answer to that question. Anyone know why the Scottish government publish GERS? Is there some statutory obligation on them to do so? It would be nice to be able to finish the argument off with some explanation of this.

  260. manandboy says:

    Richard Hammond is taking a mauling in today’s papers after NI increases are scrapped. He is being publicly humiliated beyond belief. I’m actually beginning to feel sorry for him.

    Can this Government do anything right?

  261. manandboy says:

    Is the UK stumbling toward a General Election in the near future? Twenty twenty seems a long way off for this Prime Minister and her team. There are very few signs of the kind of competence that will be required to get through the Brexit negotiations satisfactorily.

    Are we about to see more startling events surrounding this Government.

  262. Golfnut says:

    @ TD
    ‘re GERS

    My understanding is that the Scottish Government are required to publish the figures and within certain time frames.
    They don’t get a choice of whether they do or don’t

  263. yesindyref2 says:

    This article is one way to tackle GERS and it may well work with some people, but not all. There will be those who insist that GERS be used – because the “SNP” used them to make the case in 2014. And that’s fair enough. For that It would be handy if we could tackle GERS head on therefore.

    And guess what – hidden in the Herald article “Sturgeon may not offer to reverse Brexit in referendum, says Salmond” is John McLaren of Scottish Trends who has forecast a deficit of 6.4% in 2019-20 – which would almost certainly be before we’re actually independent.

    And that figure of 6.4% completely destroys the case of the Unionists who push GERS like it’s the holy grail.

    Because at that rate of drop from the 2015-16 deficit of 9.5% according to GERS, the deficit would be down to 3.3% by 2023-24 – without changing a thing, and no oil revenue to speak of.

    And that by John Mclaren who is quoted in an article by Scotland in Union “Filling the Independence Black Hole”. Well thanks SIU – what black hole?

  264. Dr Jim says:

    Liars and their damned lies:

    The Ruth Davidson Sectarian party will today put on her baddest face and claim co-operation with the Tory government wasn’t for real and it was all a big conspiracy on Scotland by the SNP just for their obsession with Independence
    And that’s pretty much what we’ve come to expect from Ruth Davidson who only last year was calling Boris Johnson a liar on national TV while at the same time warning us that Andrea Leadsome couldn’t be trusted and all the Brexiters were false prophets
    Michael Gove, she said was just making all this stuff up as he goes along

    This year Ruth Davidson is a believer in all things Brexit even to the ditching of the single market, an issue at the time she felt was so important to Scotland we couldn’t live without it, now she says we should all get behind the folk who she said lied through their teeth to us, would destroy Scotlands jobs and income and indeed bankrupt Britain

    So what led Ruth the truth Davidson to the complete and total opposite view from last year, well just like her pound shop clone Dugdale one thing and one thing only, career, and that’s how unpleasant both these characters are that they would put their political parties and own creer chances before an entire country, and I wont say their country because Scotland isn’t their country and it’s not even England, both these women have no country the only entity they long to become a part of is the the country of whoever has the most power to advance either one of them and at the moment that entity is Toryland wherever that exists

    Today Nicola Sturgeon should show Ruth Davidson and her faulty clone absolutely no mercy and publicly humiliate and destroy their positions in the strongest of possible terms so the people of Scotland can see clearly what kind of political terrorists these two and the parties they represent are

    Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP at no time ever in the whole sorry state of these Brexit shenanigans has ever changed their position in the defence of Scotland and during the TV debates both Davidson and Dugdale stood alongside Scotlands First Minister and said all the same things in condemnation of the Brexit position and both complained equally about the damage to Scotland this path would force upon us but now have adopted a total reversal in support of the very people who put us in the position they were so vehemently opposed to

    Even a retarded monkey could work out that these people have no character, no moral fibre and not a grain of truth in their blackened souls that they would openly support destroying the livelihoods of the people who gave them theirs as representatives in our Scottish Parliament

  265. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Thank you, overcast here today.Lovely Links

    Peace Always

  266. Ken500 says:

    The Tories cheated and lied to win a Ref. They chested and lied to win an election. Then cheated and lied to win another Ref. They are now intent on destroying the world economy. The debt is increasing. They are going after the elderly in England. ‘Bedroom tax’. There have been unexpected higher elderly deaths in England because of lack of funds and cuts in social care.

    The GERs figures are a nonsense. If Scotland managed the budget better there would be a surplus. Scotland has always been in surplus since 1928 and before, Westminster Unionists have been milking Scotland dry for years and lying about it. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

    The Westminster unionist claim to being the 5th largest economy etc only relates to size. Higher pop etc. Not including the debt. The most wealth countries in the world are all smaller ones. Norway, Singapore, New Zealand, Finland and Switzerland. They are the most wealthier.per capita. The UK is the sixteenth. Even lower, including the debt. ‘Fighting together’. Illegal wars. Bombing the Middle East to bits. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe costing £Trns. Ruining the economy and then running away.

    It was the SNP who started to publish the Acciunts, Westminster claimed they could not publish separate accounts for Scotland. GERs is still not accurate. VAT etc is (under?) estimated. Trade going through other ports. Thatcher centralised the transport system through London. Congestion and chaos, Tilbury Docks 26miles. Subsidised Heathrow. The most congested airport in the world.

  267. Nana says:

    UN nuclear disarmament talks: UK Government not attending discussions labelled ‘reckless and irresponsible’

    Tory plan for our fishing can be read here…

    This is really good

    Yesterday I posted two links re our referendum, the law and where we stand. Check them out on Some things are simple thread

  268. JLT says:

    I tell you …we live in very interesting times.

    And as to the British State, it is seemingly becoming more apparent that she is like the old mad woman who has been placed in the attic …poorly dressed, shrieking, memory loss and at quiet moments, trying to snatch at those very fleeting memories of greater days gone by, before erupting once more into howls of fury and despair.

    And meanwhile, the rest of the family sit quietly downstairs, nervously looking at each other or glancing at the clock on the mantlepiece, and waiting for the ever-closer and impending day that she will pass.

    We are at that stage.

  269. DerekM says:

    @ TD

    Its a tory trap always has been as Golfnut says they get handed the responsibility but not the control,and it is to make us think they do have control and are making an arse out it.

    It is called tory devolution of responsibility as the tories do not want to be responsible for anything hence them selling off all public assets that they would be responsible for in government.

    Plus it allows them to attack the Scottish government in areas quite frankly like the NHS that they should be themselves held to task over.

    We need to get the hell away from them and their broken political ideology of pass the buck.

  270. Hamish100 says:

    So May avoids being questioned over her parties fiddling of expenses at yesterday’s PMQ’s . How lucky that the announcement over police submitting reports for possible prosecution and the electoral commission fine. How lucky can you get? You could almost think that this was a deliberate act.

    Maybe our FM could ask The Davidson ( vote for me ) campaign if she is aware of any investigation in Scotland.

  271. Nana says:


    Good morning. Hope you managed some decent sleep. You know when we get our independence, I am planning on hibernating for some time.

    Sleep is pretty elusive these nights.

  272. Nana says:

    Small change for tory criminals.

    Conservative Party fined £70,000 over election expenses

  273. Smallaxe says:


    That’s what we all love about you, not IF, WHEN!

    Peace Always

  274. Golfnut says:

    Need some help.

    38 degrees has a petition up on Facebook ‘re Fracking, they want the SG to ban it.
    Just been informed that legislation over Fracking was devolved, is this correct, my understanding was that the HOL removed this from the Devolution settlement.

    Anybody more up to speed on this than I.

  275. DerekM says:

    @ Nana

    Shocking but not unexpected whitewash shares went up the other day.

    I wonder which unlucky tory will get flung to the wolves to keep the oiks happy,but we all know the rest will get away with it,well it is not like we have not seen it all before it is a recurring theme at westminster.

  276. manandboy says:

    Tory Election Expenses Fraud – Court Order was needed.

    The Electoral Commission’s chief executive Claire Bassett told BBC Radio 5 live the investigation had taken much longer than necessary because of “some difficulties” in getting information from the Conservative Party.

    She added that having had to get a court order to get information was “very disappointing”.

    ” some difficulties “, meaning the Tories were engaged in a cover-up.

    On another day, this would be headline news, but not today. Today is Humiliating Richard Hammond day.

  277. Macart says:


    Good spread this morning Nana and from what I gather, progress. All the sound and fury of Westminster, the media bubble and Scotland’s own cringing yoonitariat appear to have proven immensely counterproductive to their cause.

    PM May’s condescending statement alone has been worth its weight in gold and long may such ignorance and arrogance continue.

    Mr MacWhirter’s piece probably comes closest I’d reckon. The Westminster campaign this time round does have a tough sell, not least on currency themselves. Heh.

    Regardless, this time it really should be about sovereignty. Where the decisions are made? Who is responsible? Who has the power to choose and where does the power lie? Ground that Westminster WILL NOT be comfortable covering and for good reason.

    It will force them to admit that under their stewardship. On THEIR watch. Scotland and the UK have been brought to this catastrophic place where the economy for the greater public is crippled. Where society is divided along multiple fracture lines as never before in the UKs political existence. Where politically and constitutionally the system is failing the population, again along multiple fronts.

    They claim all sovereignty, all power rests with Westminster parliament? That devolved governments are parish councils?

    Righto. Austerity and Brexit UK can only be laid at one door then.

    You are either the government in charge of and responsible for the economy, the constitution, the security of the state, the welfare and care of your entire population or you are NOT.

    The watch phrase of any government should be ‘how you care for the least among you, is how the world will judge you’.

  278. DerekM says:

    @ Golfnut

    Dont sign it,it is the fracking lobbyists they want the SG to ban it so they can take them to the UK supreme court and get it over turned.

    At the present there is a moratorium on fracking which means the frackers have to prove they are not going to screw up the environment,which they can not.

    The first thing you need to know about frackers is they are backed by the tories and the only thing stopping them fracking the shit out of Scotland is the moratorium.

    It needs to be kept in place until indy then we can ban fracking.

  279. Muscleguy says:

    One of the the sort of thing which changes the GERS type assumptions utterly would be introducing either a local income tax or a land value tax. The latter most especially. Suddenly that vast single story Amazon shed just north of the Bridge looks very wasteful. Suddenly the house builders rush to build houses on the land they are currently banking. The supermarkets either sell their land banks or develop them. Apartment living suddenly looks very smart, everyone up the close!

    Scotgov can radically change the economy in fundamental ways with such levers. They want to plough more money into childcare to get more women back into work. But they need the totality of income tax, payroll tax, NI etc to make it revenue neutral.

    But, will we have payroll tax? will we have NI? what will VAT be? will it work differently?

    Boy are we in for some pointy head arguments when we vote Yes (I nearly typed if there, I’ll go sit on the naughty step).

  280. CameronB Brodie says:

    Just in case folk think I’m a bot, I should probably set out why I keep banning on about semiotics. It’s the economy stupid, right? Wrong. As I’m sure Severin Carrell* will attest, semiotic analysis and deconstruction of social codes, such as British nationalism, allows one to understand the mechanisms driving social organization.

    Scottish ‘nationalism’ is organic, shaped as it is through culture and landscape. British nationalism is ideological and so lacks the internal dynamism required for the evolution of an open society. Not cool.

    The longevity of the code is determined by the permanence of its basic structural principles and by its inner dynamism-its capacity for change while still preserving the memory of preceding states and, consequently,
    of the awareness of its own coherence.

    * a.k.a. the “Semiotic Kid”.

  281. Tinto Chiel says:

    Arbroath1320: thanks for the link to Alex Salmond’s witty Point of order.

    I actually thought fragrant Laura Kuenssssssssssberg (my precious) already attended Tory cabinet meetings, just to keep them on track, particularly re. dishing the Nats.


    Nana: you’re working too hard. We need you for the marathon effort of escaping the mad house. Look after yourself.

    Re: Tory fraud, heard Oliver Letwin explained to Humphrys on Pravdasound4 this morning that this was all just a simple mistake. John (“I’m hard, well ‘ard, ye hear?”) let him spout his tosh without the attack he normally reserves for SG spokespersons, of course. All very civilised.

    Glad Ollie put my mind at rest on that one…..

  282. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. It goes without saying that British nationalism’s basic structural principles are total mince. :0

  283. Mark says:

    My first post.

    This comment from Liz sums up how I am feeling so eloquently put, much better than I could have said it, but how I feel about the First Minister and her responsibilities that she believes in and the abhorrent manner Westminister plays politics with Scotland.

    Liz g says:
    16 March, 2017 at 1:11 am
    After reading as much as I could face, since the First Ministers announcement.
    I found it strange that not one Brexit voter Unionist or no, Scottish or no, even acknowledged that she might just have saved their arses.

    I don’t mean the Kipper’s or the mad Brit obeying their queen mob.
    But normal people who really don’t think the European project is right for their country.
    They surely can’t think that May and her Minions are able to handle this.

    The First Minister, I think, has just, put a stop to any horse trading with Scotland’s resources.
    And ofcourse she would, she had to because nobody elected in Scotland was going to be in the room.
    Can’t see why they were all so surprised to be honest!

    Therefore as,is,her job….She used Scotland’s “veto” not the pretendy Smith commission one.
    The real one…..The one the Scottish Electorate gave her last year,the only one Holyrood ever really needed.

    But the irony is that while Scotland’s resources are off the table for Westminster and it has to be said Brussels,any “deal” will, it seems to me,be impossible to make.
    Which at the very least should stop May from rushing into a hamfisted arrangements.

    No that I care we’ll be gone …. but ye would think that some would notice that they have potentially gained some breathing space.
    And other’s this side of the border regardless of their views on Independence could at least take note that the First Minister has made sure that everyone knows Scotland’s resources are not the Tories to bargain with,unless and until we say so,and one way or another we are getting to have a say.

    Bravo, make me feel proud.

  284. Effijy says:

    Almost there for Live Indy broadcasting
    Anyone got a £5 note to spare?

  285. Nana says:

    Tory electoral fraud. Sorry its Sky news.

    Commission found
    £52k invoices missing
    £104k nt reported
    £118k misreported

    But hey we fined them 70 grand to encourage them to do it again.

    Branson the carpet bagger tax dodger

  286. Fred says:

    @ Derek, spot on kid!

  287. Tackety Beets says:

    Thank you Macart, better put than I ever do.

    That was my point a few days ago.
    Listen to NS on Monday she said

    “this ref will be about Fact”

    I think she will turn the Ref to be less about EU and more about being able to decide (everything) for ourselves , which is where the majority surely agree.

    Its a pity we are so effin poor , what with Oil operating cost at $15 BOE and only getting $50 BOE such smal margins for profit !

  288. Breeks says:

    Thing about GERS, Europe, the apparent deficit, and all the other staple Unionist arguments, blogs and social can and will do their bit, but we really need leadership in the form of unequivocal information from the SNP.

    Even if it’s a don’t know, make it a formal and officially unequivocal don’t know.

    We need legible facts, figures, and policies at our fingertips so the whole Yes movement can rattle off watertight and consistent counter arguments just as the Unionist media endlessly repeats their grim warnings of catastrophe for Scotland. We know their script and we let them follow it.

    We need our counter arguments crisp and robust so we can truncate the endless spin, and get everybody singing from the same hymn sheet. ScotRef must have rock solid consistency from Nicola herself to the most recent No to Yes convert, we should all know the YES position and the significance of sovereignty.

    If the media is using GDP figures, these do not exist for Scotland, what you see are estimates of GDP. But them quoting one GDP and us quoting another just goes into the same looped argument. “Our estimate is better than your estimate”

    We need boil down the argument WHY GDP cannot be accurate, and focus on how sovereignty empowers Scotland to improve GDP. Cogent facts and arguments will serve us better than comparing estimates.

    I’ve said it before, ask yourself what relevance does this argument have to Sovereignty, and what relevance does sovereignty have to this argument.

    Think ASSA. Argument – Sovereignty, Sovereignty- Argument.

    Make that a theme. Apply the ASSA principle and never leave home without it.

    And before you eagle eyed conspiracy theorists see trouble where there is none, Beware the pit fall off KISS (Keep it Simple Scotland) and ASSA. (Argument Sov -Sov Argument).

    KISS my ASSA has tasteless connotations, but it is easy to remember…

  289. Nana says:


    Progress is what I see too. We should all follow Nicola’s example Keep calm and steady as she goes.


    I have cancelled the piano recital and sadly have also had to cancel the black pudding making marathon I had planned. [I’m so versatile, lol]

    Oh well never mind I will have it all to look forward to in an independent Scotland.

  290. Effijy says:

    A £70K Fine for the Tories obstructing justice,
    Breaking the Election Caps, and Stealing the
    General Election ?

    What great value for them, why that is only a tiny
    Fraction of one filthy rich supporter’s donation.

    I’m sure they will do the same even if they were
    To increase the Fine 10 fold. It IS a Steal at that!

    As the Tories try to cover their lies with human error bull
    Sh’t, could someone ask why there errors only happened in
    Closely contested constituencies, and why so many errors.

    You do appreciate that when the Tories try to project Scotland’s
    Economic figures, they can be totally ignored as they can’t even
    Get the sums right in a small branch offices.

  291. galamcennalath says:

    Tinto Chiel says:

    I actually thought fragrant Laura Kuenssssssssssberg already attended Tory cabinet meetings, just to keep them on track

    She’s a crap apology for a journalist, frankly.

    The BBC are a problem. The SNP/YES has to be seen as positive, therefore boycotting the BBC isn’t appropriate. However, an organisation practising second rate journalism can’t expect to be first in the queue for interviews and appearances. I suspect this may already be happening ie Nicola on Channel 4.

    The BBC should be told quietly, until they begin to act like journalists they will continue to be at the end of the queue for news.

  292. Brian Powell says:

    The fine for the Tories is all the Electoral Commission can do, however they recognise there is a criminal side to the situation, something they cannot prosecute, and have passed the info on to the police, who can bring criminal charges.

  293. ronnie anderson says:

    Sky News Toyota investing £240 mil in Burnaston plant Uk Gov adding another £21Mil for Training & Research ,all we need now is the deal done for other car manufacturers in the UK.

    UK GOV anointment there are no special deals being done post Brexit.

    Nicola Sturgeon & Angus Robertson will be allover this.

  294. Ken500 says:

    What about the illegal outside donations to the Scottish and EU Ref campaigns? Plus the lies. UKIP being illegally supported by public money for years. No regular accounts.

  295. CameronB Brodie says:

    I am aware of the need to pitch to the audience, I’ll not be using the semiotic deconstruction of British nationalism when out campaigning on the street. I just thought I’d use the calm before the storm to help temper independentista determination. 🙂

  296. mike cassidy says:

    I liked this from Richard J Murphy’s twitter page.

    “I quoted from @WingsScotland yesterday. Apparently this is controversial. I had no idea. But it doesn’t change my arguments on GERS at all.”

    Oh manandboy –

    Not sure how long you can keep up the pretence that the UK economy is being run by Jeremy Clarkson’s codriver.

  297. McBoxheid says:

    Arbroath1320 says:
    15 March, 2017 at 3:54 pm

    Think I’ll just leave this here. ?

    Another Scottish independence vote could threaten the U.K.’s credit rating outlook, according to James McCormack, global head of sovereign ratings at Fitch Ratings Ltd.

    If you start the line on that chart the guy showed to be going down at the point where it reaches the bottom, the trend has been positive from then. Charts can been used in many different ways. If you took it back to the beginning of North Sea oil extraction, it would probably show an overall positive trend. They can therefore be safely disregarded, especially as complete oil and gas figures don’t apply to a Scottish GDP, that isin itself a very woolly concept with no true figures or ways of poving where it actually sits.

  298. Nana says:

    Tried posting three times, no show. Fat finger syndrome?

    Apologies as there might be double posts if they appear.

  299. gus1940 says:

    Today’s Scotsman has a couple of real howlingly dishonest articles (situation normal most people would say):-

    Tom Peterkin has a long article which is just a load of Alternative Facts’

    Yon Professor McLaren with the funny hair has produced (surprise surprise)a doom and gloom report on the horrific deficit problem that would be faced by Indy Scotland. Naturally The Scotsman fails to mention that he is an ex Labour adviser who was never far from the media attacking YES in the Indyref1 Campaign.

    Today’s Courier has a letter from our favourite mad History Woman in which she resurrects the Indy1 lie that after Independence The Rump UK Govt (Little Britain)would stop paying pensions to Scots.

    The UK print media has reached the stage that nearly all political content is a pack of lies.

    Is it not time to enact legislation to put a stop to this dire situation?

    It should be made compulsory that in the event of lies being published the relevant paper must print a full apology and clarification of what is the truth with the same prominence as was given to the original lie.

    Nobody would be denied the right of free speech or to express an honestly held opinion but where a deliberate lie has been published they should be given say 7 days to remedy the situation as stated above and if they fail to do so the paper should be banned from publication until such time as they do comply with the law.

    It might also be an idea if the same principle were to be applied to any publication/leaflet produced by a political party during an election campaign with a requirement to publish and distribute to the same recipients a corrective statement.

  300. Nana says:

    Historywoman has a letter in the courier. Apparently pensions at risk with indy but safe with Westminster.

  301. Breeks says:

    We may be at cross purposes Cameron.

    All I hope for is that a pro Independence spokesperson on a doorstep, or on a Question Time panel, is asked whether they agree that we’ll all be needing international passports for our goldfish or some other banal and trivial irrelevance, before answering, they might stop, think, and steer the programs agenda back to the issue of sovereignty.

    “The ScotRef argument is not about having a pet passport, the issue is Sovereignty, and who decides whether we are having pet passports or not. Why is that something we can’t decide ourselves?”

    See? You’re right back on topic, but you’ve also taken the initiative in the argument.

    Keeping it Simple, Argument-Sovereignty isn’t a marketing angle or script for a poster campaign, it’s a quiet wee tool to keep in your head, to help you think fast on your feet.

  302. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana , loved the Irish Times and loved the discussion below the line – it really is debate and discussion , I found only one numpty and he /she was quickly stopped in their tracks.

  303. Dorothy Devine says:

    Gus1940 and could the apology be the same size as the article along with prominence !

    Liars , no matter who they are , should be called liars .

  304. heedtracker says:

    Coffe time Graun’s Nic Sturgeon’s a monster hysteria ebbs a bit today, for stuff like,

    “Operation London Bridge: the secret plan for the days after the Queen’s death

    She is venerated around the world. She has outlasted 12 US presidents. She stands for stability and order. But her kingdom is in turmoil, and her subjects are in denial that her reign will ever end. That’s why the palace has a plan.
    by Sam Knight”

    ” The Queen is Britain’s last living link with our former greatness – the nation’s id, its problematic self-regard – which is still defined by our victory in the second world war. One leading historian, who like most people I interviewed for this article declined to be named, stressed that the farewell for this country’s longest-serving monarch will be magnificent. “Oh, she will get everything,” he said.”

    The English do like to worship deities. Must be genetic.

  305. liz says:

    @golfnut – forget 38 degrees.
    Not a single solitary petition they have ever had has been accepted by the WM gov.

    They are under no obligation to do so.
    Lastly stop talking nonsense about fracking.
    The SG had a consultation on line for all to add their opinion.

    In other words still dealing with the moratorium.
    The SG have no desire for fracking.

  306. AuldReekieJim says:

    It is all about sovereignty.

    An independent Scotland can make its own decisions,for all its people, for a better future.

    Scotref – The people of Scotland are sovereign.

  307. ronnie anderson says:

    So the royal Seal has spoken on Article 50 ,so much for listening to the Devolved Gov’s.

    ? How many balls can a Seal juggle .

    My take on this is that TM will call a UK election , problems solved. Nicola Sturgeon’s covering all bases thats why she didn’t jump in with Indy Ref 2 date Convention Politic isn’t TM’s strong suit.

  308. heedtracker says:

    Imagine beeb gimps reportage, if this was SNP fraud? Fair play to C4 though. Beeb haven’t mentioned it all until last week, its that corrupt an outfit today.

  309. gordoz says:

    Hey Rev : See how your looking for that Jim Murphy photo.

    It put me in mind of that old Johnny Nash reggae song, you know the one ?

    “There are more cameras than people” or something like that.

    PPPPffff 🙂

  310. caz-m says:

    Just hearing that prescription charges in England are to increase by 20 pence to



  311. Nana says:

    More from Richard Murphy. Dog food salesman just won’t surrender

  312. gordoz says:

    O/T Martin Lewis Website // Come on folks give it a go !!!!

    Can I suggest everybody on WoS votes on this online poll as it will no doubt appear somewhere.

  313. caz-m says:

    ronnie anderson

    Hi Ronnie hope you are well big man,

    is everything on track for the BBC Protest Rally on 26th March???

    Have you got an updated link Ronnie so I can post it on other sites.


  314. Golfnut says:

    Thanks, you might want to go back and read the post again though, still looking for info, if anybody else thinks they can be more helpful.

  315. Nana says:


    My understanding is that oil and gas is not devolved so the only way the scotgov can try to stop it is by a moratorium which is in place.

    This may help some

  316. call me dave says:


    That Richard Murphy article is a cracker! Thanks Nana.

  317. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING: May will rule out second independence referendum this afternoon, sources suggest #indyref2 (The Herald)

    And all merry hell will break loose if she dares.

  318. I have already voted on Lewis Martin’s the money saving website.

    I also noticed in the daily stranger that the unionists have organised a Commons petition against a second independence referendum.

    The petition was set up by a John Innes and reads;
    “We in Scotland are fed up of persecution by the SNP leader, who is solely intent on getting a independence at any cost. As a result, Scotland is suffering hugely.”

    It’s claimed that it has over 100,000 signatures yesterday and could close in on 200,000.

  319. Sorry typo that should have been Marin Lewis’s money saving website.,

  320. sensibledave says:

    heedtracker at 11:12 am

    Hi Heedy, I assume you have just pulled yourself up from being faced down in a gutter in Sauchiehall Street in a drunken stupor from a night on the whiskey with your kilt over your head and your bag pipes squashed underneath you like some highland roadkill?

  321. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING: May will rule out second independence referendum this afternoon, sources suggest

    If she does …

    The SG & Greens should join to call a Holyrood election.

    All 56 pro-Indy MPs should stand down to force by-elections for re-election.

    With the council elections coming up too, a clear mandate to stand up for Scotland should be sought at every level.

  322. Conan the Librarian says:

    @ Peter McCulloch

    It’s standiing at around 152,000 at the moment. Here’s a counter.

  323. call me dave says:

    Ruthless and The Deputy howling at the moon again.
    As for that Rennie …words fail me. Brass neck all three of them!

    Straight man Rennie feeding lines for NS to rip him another one!

  324. liz says:

    Don’t know if this is true but May going to rule out a indy ref, according to breaking news Herald

  325. Golfnut says:

    @ Nana.
    Thanks, that’s my understanding also, the moratorium effectively stops fracking and no council can at this time Grant planning permission.

    I also argue that an outright ban would invite legal challenges to the ban, which if lost would open the floodgates to fracking.

    However, I’ve just been advised that on shore activities have been devolved, but my understanding was that the HOL had removed authority over fracking from the settlement.

    Not sure now where I got that from.

  326. Conan the Librarian says:

    It seems the amiable cover has been stripped from sensibledave by Monday’s news, and his real persona has surfaced in all it’s stereotypical rancorous scorn.

  327. TheWasp says:

    Willie Rennie is just a total gonk

  328. Bob Mack says:


    Aww diddums, Did Heedtracker offend your need to fawn over Royalty.. Ha ha ha

    You ex forces Dave ? Or perhaps current?

  329. Stephen McKenzie says:

    Sensibledave @ 12:16

    Whatever has happened to you in the past, you can get treatment. Theresa Mays thoughts are with you as always.

  330. Ken500 says:

    Thanks to Richard Murphy. Calling out the GERs figures.

  331. CameronB Brodie says:

    Paranoid, me? No mate but that was a particularly challenging text. Probably only for true fans of semiotics, such as Severin Carrell. 😉

  332. call me dave says:

    Here is the readable bit in the Herald that will archive.

    You can read the whole article if you have google if you use (incognito setting) three wee dots top right hand corner of your screen on the computer.
    SPECULATION is rising that Theresa May will today rule out facilitating a second independence referendum – just 24 hours before the SNP spring conference.

    Sources have suggested that the Prime Minister is to give a TV interview on Nicola Sturgeon’s demand for another poll on Scotland’s future this lunchtime.

    The First Minister is expected to give an interview with the BBC ahead of her party’s conference later this afternoon.

    Thus far, when asked for a formal response to Ms Sturgeon’s call, Mrs May and No 10 have simply said there should not be another referendum.

    Beattie on shortbrad about to break the news.

    She has rejected the referendum call!

  333. call me dave says:

    Aye section 30 order refused! Not the time get back in the box .

  334. DerekM says:

    Jings i see wee Kev is still swinging away like a nutjob howling he knows best after what can only be described as a total humiliation.

    I see the prof came back and give him a few more hooks for good measure,i like this guy lol

  335. Capella says:

    Theresa May just announced she will not agree S30 for Referendum.

  336. @Conan the Librarian says:
    16 March, 2017 at 12:24 pm

    Thanks for that.

    I don’t know about anyone else but I find the unionists inclusion of the word persecution in their petition from offensive.

    The First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has never persecuted anyone.

    However the same can’t be said about Westminster Governments in regard to the treatment of the disabled, unemployed and young.

  337. Ken500 says:

    The Tories cheated and lied to win a Ref. They cheated and lied to win an election. Then cheated and lied to win another Ref.

    May will have to call an election. She has no mandate. What is wrong with that woman?

  338. ronnie anderson says:

    T May now’s not the time for a Scottish Referendem WHIT , she’s moved on from no support for a 2nd Indy Ref ( she’s reading the polls lol.)

  339. David P says:

    Prime minister May’ts interview…

    Who asked the questions? What were the questions? No follow up on the answer that was broadcast…

    Looked like propaganda, smelled like propaganda….

    Pure unionist propaganda.

    Many thanks to our ‘glorious’ state broadcaster.

  340. Macart says:

    RE: Theresa May


  341. Luigi says:

    Aye, as I thought – the BrexitNats are determined to prevent EU citizens voting in IndyRef 2.

    There is no way we can afford to wait after BREXIT.

  342. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    The breaking news seems to be that the Mayhem Gang are going to refuse a ScotRef. Sometime maybe, don’t know when, move along there plebs, we are in charge. Off the cliff we go.

    Will we take that lying down? Will we hell. Welcome to Catalonia!

  343. Dan Huil says:

    We hold the referendum anyway – Catalonia style. Or simply hold a vote in Holyrood to end the union with England.

  344. Bob Mack says:

    Now could mean many things but not two years from NOW. It is political speak for I want to sound tough but there is not much I can do. It would be easy enough to say “not for the next five years”

  345. Sinky says:

    Theresa May has just motivated all pro indy campaigners to get out there and get our vote out send her a message at Council elections.

    So much for having the strongest Parliament in the world when a consultative referendum can be challenged in the courts.

    Now is not the time to sit on your…

  346. Macart says:

    Steady all.

    Wait to see what is actually being said and proposed.

    No one is suggesting an indyref is being held now or even tomorrow, but a year and a half to two years ahead. These are the opening salvos in a protracted negotiation and May is desperate to hold onto Scotland’s assets going into EU negotiations.

    So hang on a bit to see what pans out and stock up on popcorn. Right now such a broad statement to Scotland’s electorate is a gift.

    Unelected Conservative PM steps on Scottish right to self determination kinda thing. 😉

  347. Effijy says:

    No May Referendum- No Way Lady!

    We will have our Holyrood Majority to go for it, we will endorse this at the SNP Party Conference, and we will pick our date.

    Please do not rush in as the old Scaremongers in Scotland are dying off, and the young Scots are coming through in their droves.

    For me get it booked tell the Westminster PM, the one that no Scots ever voted for, it is happening in the Spring of 2019.
    It is the will of the Scots people, and we are confident that we
    will once again have control of our own destiny.

    Scots for Scots in Scotland!

  348. frogesque says:

    Gloves off, reconvene the Scottish Grand Committee.

    We ARE now a completely different entity to the Westminster version of Little Britain.

  349. Ken500 says:

    Independence support goes up.

  350. call me dave says:

    Some fearties will quell and shrug shoulders or maybe some will get a backbone and sharpen their pencils to vote for Scotland.

    The gun boat has fired across our bow. Did Ruthie know…not a chance she’s well down the pecking list.

    That is an attempt to exclude all EU people living here presently able to vote but not now getting a vote.

    Game on and ‘DaftCon’ Level 2 (Cuba crisis) 🙂

  351. Nana says:

    She has not said No. She has said “now is not the time”

    Hate to break it to you Theresa but we were not planning on a referendum right now. I’ve got my hair to wash

    Let the papers froth away, it just builds support for YES

  352. Les Wilson says:

    Excellent article by Richard Murphy posted by Nana above, a must read.

    An very professional explanation of the GER figures supplied by Westminster to Scotland and just why they are useless.

  353. heedtracker says:

    BBC Politics lunchtime show just there, very quick May block report on ref 2 til after Brexit mention, Ligger skips past it on to huge thing about Trump’s limo.

    Ligger’s more than capable of getting guests on who can explain why/if May can block ref 2 but that’s not what he’s got his own BBC Daily Politics show for. It was a bit weird waiting to see studio May’s ref block discussion but not a peep, just some creepy gutter tabloid schlubs chortling away.

  354. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Here we go. May coming out with that “unfair” meme again.


    The only thing that’s “”unfair”” is Scotland being dragged down a road it manifestly doesn’t want to take, following a UK general election in which there is now a serious suspicion of fraud in a number of crucial marginal constituencies, and which the Tories have striven to hide from the Electoral Commission. And even then, with a Tory mandate pathetically inferior to that of our own First Minister.

    This is an attempted Tory coup.

    But also a bluff, and one that must now be called.

  355. Macart says:

    Smelling the fear from Conservative heid office. 🙂

  356. Inbhir Anainn says:

    Direct from the horses mouth “now is not the time”

  357. gus1940 says:

    Well that’s us told – Our Colonial Mistress Maggie May knows best talking down to us in her usual patronising way as if we are a bunch of inferior uncivilised natives while banging on again about her precious bloody union.

    Surely we are not going to put up with being treated like this.

    I’m looking forward to Nicolas’s speech at Conference – she’ll sock it to that pathetic old hag.

  358. Vestas says:

    So to summarise :

    Last week May’s position was “no need for indyref2”;

    This week May’s position is “not now”;

    Next week…… 🙂

  359. gus1940 says:

    As far as today’s Toyota anouncement and the previous Nissan one when Brexit happens and the consequences become clear everything apart from the shell of the buildings can be easily relocated to The EU.

  360. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 12:33 pm

    You wrote: “Aww diddums, Did Heedtracker offend your need to fawn over Royalty.. Ha ha ha You ex forces Dave ? Or perhaps current?”

    Haha, well done Bob – at least you saw the point of the comment. I guess Heedy is still trying to work what he did to get the response! Bless him.

    SAS Bob! Black Ops, Scotland. Ooops – forget I told you that!

  361. Flower of Scotland says:


    Absolutely brilliant! Hope you don’t mind that I’ve used this.

  362. Dr Jim says:

    Theresa May goes for the nuclear option of denying Scotland a referendum in the hope of delaying it until such time as EU citizens aren’t allowed a vote or in the hope of provoking civil unrest by which means she can take direct control of Holyrood and return all powers to Westminster

    Such is the fear of the Tories at losing Scotlands cash and credit worthyness they’ve gone insane and if they imagine for one nano second the EU wont notice what they’ve just done they’re even stupider than even I thought they were
    The Tories have panicked wildly on this because Scotland would have been part of their plans for Brexit giveaways to the EU but Nicola Sturgeon outflanked them on using Scotland in that way

    All I can say is watch the skies because this is way bigger than Theresa May and her bunch of Tory clowns think it is
    The Tories will be hoping this will settle down after a puff of dust, it wont, and even the Scottish press who are not our friends by any means will not enjoy the experience of Scotland being told to shut up and do what we’re told

    This is now not about Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP this is about what Nicola Sturgeon warned us all about, domination and dictatorship and if we don’t like it

    Direct rule

    Wake up and smell the tanks diesel oil Scotland

    Eh, and Theresa May aught to be aware Norn Ireland just watched her behaviour with interest, they’ve experience of what the Brits do and they tend to do it right back

  363. Golfnut says:

    Games afoot now. Predictable though. TM is strutting for the media, so we will get a couple of days of how a referendum will be illegal etc, blah,blah and so forth.

    Any roads, my guess, Nicola will still seek authority from the Scottish Parliament to agree terms on a section 30 order, that will generate more outrage from the London bubble and the three amigos, all good from our point of view. Nicola playing a blinder.

  364. Robert Peffers says:

    WOW! Did you hear that hell of a bang as Nicola’s trap snapped shut and it was timed to perfection.

    BBC in full and immediate anti-SG, SNP and Scotland propaganda mode.

    The claim that Dis-May has the powers to prevent the Scottish Government from holding a referendum is utter claptrap. Full on implication by BBC Jockland is that a Section 30 Order can prevent the SG holding a referendum on anything they please. They are wrong.

    All a Section 30 Order does is confirm that both the Westminster Parliament, (a.k.a. de facto parliament of the country of England), and the Scottish Parliament will legally recognise the referendum result but will treat it as advisory only.

    Perhaps that is not quite as clear as it could be – It just means that Westminster has now claimed the referendum is advisory only and they will say that as such the de facto Parliament of England will over-rule the wishes of the people of Scotland and England will take Scotland out of Europe against their will.

    This, in my humble opinion, is exactly what Nicola’s trap was baited to get from Dis-May and The Westminster Establishment in the first place.

  365. Nana says:

    @Flower of Scotland

    of course, no need to ask. My own feeling on this ‘announcement’ today is it takes the heat off reporting on the tory electoral fraud.

    Dead cats everywhere, on the table, on the floor and on Boris’s head. But our cat Hamish is very much alive.

  366. I agree Robert Peffers. I feel the UN is also in mind a little down the line.

  367. Les Wilson says:

    I think we definitely have need for unbiased monitors to be brought in to oversee the referendum is absolutely fair.
    Westminster has this reserved, big surprise!. However, as this is being stated as Scotland’s referendum, we should be able to choose
    who monitors it.

    Craig Murray had an option for this, although can’t seem to find it now. We need to be sure there is no fiddling, I certainly thin there was last time. We cannot make the mistake of leaving it all to a Westminster concocted system again.

    If Westminster does not like it, the question would be,why,what do you have to fear.

  368. Doug Mcg says:

    Dr Jim at 1.23pm says

    “The Tories have panicked wildly on this because Scotland would have been part of their plans for Brexit giveaways to the EU but Nicola Sturgeon outflanked them on using Scotland in that way”

    This is fundamental to the Brexiteers , we are to be asset stripped before we get out this mess. There is no time to lose.

  369. clipper says:

    Haven’t got further on the thread so far than this, maybe someone’s explained it or something but if this is true then wtf are they doing using nonsense to analyse the economy with?

    alexicon says:
    15 March, 2017 at 12:30 pm
    It is now time that NS stood up and rubbished GERS for what it is.
    The Scottish Government is not doing any of us who debate on other websites any favours by using the discredited GERS figures in their annual analysis of our economy.

  370. Muscleguy says:

    I’ve just seen your tweet about the Scotland in Yoonion meetings. Why oh why is there no meeting in the fair city of Dundee?

    I know we are the Yes City but surely there must be some unionists left here. This ward returns two Tories to DCC before anyone else gets a look-in.

    Why no meeting outside Broughty Ferry M&S? I may have to take my Yes be-badged self down there at the allotted time just in case. If you here about a man in the Ferry arrested for loitering with intent, it shall be me.

    If I get bored I can go inside and continue my quest for the Free From section therein. I fancied some crumpets last week and could find none I could eat. Still the ones I got at the Coop were very fine.

  371. ronnie anderson says:

    PMSL Former head of WTO MR Lamy describing Boris Johnstone as a Nasty Kid , nae Milky Bars for him then.

  372. ScotinUSA says:

    Great article,

    I’m a Scot living in the US since I was in my early twenties, but I’m back every year, my mum lives in Fife, and I’m a huge supporter of Scottish independence. As you know, we’re facing our own major political problems over here in the US, to say the least. A lot of the mainstream media over here are now blatantly anti-Trump but no matter how many facts about crazy orangeman and his white supremacist cabinet they publish, it doesn’t seem to make one iota of difference to many of his supporters (if they do watch anything but Fox News for once) because of their total unwillingness to think outside of their boxed-in warped fundamental belief system. We all know that this will be the problem for indyref2 if and when it happens.
    This is a great article on the subject, although unfortunately it doesn’t really offer any kind of solution – so frustrating but also a harsh reality. Since the author obviously rejected this boxed-in way of thinking I would have liked to hear why he thinks he was able to do this but unfortunately he didn’t explain this.

  373. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers As i said last week & again today Nicola Sturgeon played the Political Convention card knowing the mind set of Teresa May’s non compliance , the FM is playing her cards as & when there is a need.

    When Holyrood votes on another Referendum next week that will be another nail in TM’s erse. Electorial Fraud / Brexit I can see TM calling for a UK election.

  374. ronnie anderson says:

    Mundell / May / BBC / can rant all they want but Westminster cant block Indy Ref 2.

  375. Conan the Librarian says:

    Indeed ScotinUSA

    We have our own problems with crazy orange men.

    We can’t tell them to take a hike… It’s their pastime.

  376. Brian Powell says:

    EU citizens can still vote in the Council elections, they could make a real statement about the Tories, Labour, Libdems and Brexit.

  377. starlaw says:

    FM playing a blinder .. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the Brexit negotiations.
    Scotlands assets cannot be put on the table as EU will understand that any deal could be very short lived.

  378. yesindyref2 says:

    Jealousy will get you nowhere. Don’t knock it unless you’ve tried it!

  379. yesindyref2 says:

    “May in U-turn”.

    It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when. But of course it won’t be reported that way 🙂

    “Now is not the time” is a lot of letters away from “No”. And it’s up to Sturgeon to say “Now is the time”.

  380. Ken MacColl says:

    Watching SKY news and, within 20 minutes saw extended interviews, both highly politically weighted towards the Prime Minister and lacking any semblance of analysis or challenge. First was with an Assa Bennett who affected to be well informed about the political scene in Scotland but eventually turned out to be a Deputy Comment Editor at the Daily Telegraph -’nuff said!
    The second was more familiar as a regular right wing commentator at SKYs’ nightly Press Review. He is apparently a former advisor to John Major and his views were entirely consistent with that employment.
    Don’t suppose for a minute that there will be any attempt at balance here

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