GERS, by economists
The announcement that the Scottish Government would seek the uncontested legal right to hold a second independence referendum met with an outpouring of rage and ignorance from the massed ranks of the UK media that was in one sense entirely predictable yet still startling in its fury and ferocity.
Most prominent was the assertion, stated as fact by every pundit and broadcaster – including those required by law to be fair and impartial – that a second referendum would be conducted in the environment of a significantly worse economic case.
And that’s a remarkable claim, because the indisputable fact is that nobody has the slightest clue what the economic case for No will be.
Scots will be choosing not between independence and the status quo, as they were in 2014, but between independence and a new UK outside the EU, the economic consequences of which are one of the greatest unknowns in British history.
You cannot evaluate a decision in which you only know, at best, the numbers on one side. Even if you accept that a fall in oil revenues damages Scotland’s prospective independent economy – and it’s not nearly as simple as that – it’s still very possible that that damage could be outweighed by the economic benefits of avoiding Brexit.
But the truth is even worse – nobody knows EITHER half of the equation, because the supposed calculations of an independent Scotland’s finances are grossly unfit for purpose. That’s something we’ve been pointing out for several years, based not on our opinion but on the views of people who analyse economics for a living.
(Rather than, say, in their spare time from running a loss-making dogfood business.)
The assessment of the relevance of GERS from proper economists – of all political viewpoints and professional backgrounds – is now so overwhelmingly uniform that it seemed worth collecting it in one place.
————————————————————————————————–
1. JIM AND MARGARET CUTHBERT
Jim Cuthbert was Chief Statistician at the UK government’s Scottish Office. He has an MA in mathematics and economics, an MSc in mathematics and statistics, and a PhD in probability theory. He lectured in statistics at Glasgow University, and worked for the cash limits division of the UK Treasury.
His wife Margaret has a degree in Economics and Statistics, and worked as an economist for ICI before lecturing in econometrics at Glasgow University.
The Cuthberts have spent many years pointing out the methodological flaws in GERS, some of which were deliberately designed into the figures by a hostile UK government.
The couple are perhaps the UK’s foremost and most widely-respected experts on GERS. They are, however, supporters of Scottish independence and their expertise can be – wrongly – dismissed on those grounds by Unionists. So let’s look elsewhere.
.
2. MERRYN-SOMERSET WEBB
Merryn Somerset-Webb is Editor in chief of MoneyWeek – the UK’s best-selling personal finance magazine – and writes for the Financial Times, Sunday Post and Saga Magazine as well as commentating on finance for radio and TV.
Until last month she also worked as a member of the advisory board of hardcore ultra-Loyalist idiot festival Scotland In Union, although we note that she is no longer credited as such on their website.
Four months before the independence referendum, Somerset-Webb wrote an article for MoneyWeek unequivocally and categorically rubbishing the idea that the economy of an independent Scotland could be accurately measured through the GERS figures.
It noted that “all the numbers everyone uses to make the financial argument are no more than rough guesses” and that readers could “ignore all the financial arguments for a separate Scotland on the basis that no-one knows what they actually are”.
Curiously, the article – which also appeared in the Financial Times entitled “Scotland’s fiscal independence is inevitable” – has vanished without trace from MoneyWeek’s website, replaced by a rather appropriate error message.
(It still appears on the FT’s, over which Somerset-Webb has no editorial control.)
.
3. DELOITTE
Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited is a multinational professional services firm based in New York. It’s one of the “Big Four” accounting firms and the largest such network in the world by revenue and number of clients, providing audit, tax, consulting, enterprise risk and financial advisory services to more than 244,400 professionals globally.
In 2016, the company earned a record $36.8 billion USD in revenues and was the 6th-largest privately owned organization in the United States. It has the largest number of clients amongst FTSE 250 companies in the UK.
Deloitte’s view on GERS is short and to the point.
Somerset-Webb and Deloitte would both normally be considered as politically firmly on the right, so perhaps we might also seek a figure on the progressive left for balance.
.
4. PROFESSOR RICHARD J MURPHY
Richard Murphy is Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University London, and previously visiting fellow at University of Portsmouth Business School, the Centre for Global Political Economy at the University of Sussex, and at the Tax Research Institute at the University of Nottingham.
He also writes for the Guardian, and has been widely praised by commentators on the left, hailed by the Daily Mirror journalist Kevin Maguire as a “heroic figure” and by Guardian journalist Polly Toynbee as a “tireless campaigner”.
In 2015 many of Murphy’s ideas were taken up as proposed policies by Jeremy Corbyn, who subsequently became leader of the Labour Party. These ideas helped to form the body of policies that was dubbed “Corbynomics”.
This month, Murphy wrote two columns for his blog on the subject of GERS. The first is a masterfully concise piece worth reproducing in its entirety:
In a few short paragraphs Murphy forensically destroyed all four pillars of the Unionist figures for the Scottish economy – GDP, tax revenues, spending and import/exports. The piece brought down a storm of abuse from furious GERS-obsessed amateurs, prompting Murphy to pen a follow-up.
In the second piece he methodically assessed the 26 pieces of data which comprise the GERS stats, noting that:
The remainder which is the vast majority) are figures supplied, as I suggested, by Westminster linked organisations, or ‘London’ as I called it. I think I can happily rest my case with regard to that claim. If anyone suggests this data was made in Scotland they are deluding themselves.”
After several more paragraphs of brutal dismantling, he concluded:
Ouch. That’s pretty comprehensive.
————————————————————————————————–
The sources we’ve quoted above cover Unionist and pro-independent voices, the left and right of the political spectrum, and across the full breadth of academia, media, big business and individual expertise. Every one of them reaches the exact same blunt and unambiguous conclusion – GERS is absolutely meaningless as a guide to the finances of an independent Scotland.
We’ve told you that all along, of course. But we suppose you could listen to an angry, brittle egomaniac who flogs Whiskas for a living instead if you really wanted to.
Either way, however, it is plainly unacceptable for lazy journalists and presenters to repeatedly state as an unchallenged empirical fact something which is the exact polar opposite of the view of every known expert in the field.
We wish we had any confidence that it was about to stop happening.
Why does Westminster cling on?
The tide has turned and is rising. Better a realistic change over. 70% of people in Scotland want more fiscal autonomy and control. Get on with it. ‘Rule Britainnia’ has played out.
An extremely welcome blog article Stu. This gives the definitive argument against GERS with evidence irifutably.
Thank you
All very good, but what will the currency be ?
Sorry couldn’t resist.
(Oh and what about border checks ?)
Excellent article by George Monbiot in today’s Guardian.
Are we keeping barnet ? Mines thinning a bit 🙂
Ah wuz shure e’ GERS drew wi’ Cellick whit ye havin’ a go fur like ??
At PMQs May banging on again about how the top % pay 27% of Income Tax total.
No bloody wonder given the obscene salaries they manage to arrange between themselves with their overlapping Remuneration Committees.
And of course you could also add to this from Business from Scotland. link to businessforscotland.com
I’m not sure I would be so generous as to say that journalists peddling lies and misinformation about Scotland and Independence is down to laziness. I would be more inclined to believe it was intentional.
Killer last sentence from Prof Murray. (Boom ! Drops Mike & exits stage left)
Hear the dug salesman is apoplectic !
Addendum that should read Business for Scotland.
“an outpouring of rage and ignorance from the massed ranks of the UK media”
There’s a typo.
It should read “the massed cranks”.
Whiskas isn’t a dog food BTW
Gordoz , thanks for the smile!
I bet wee Kevin’s got a bit of a runny bottom today.
“But I’m a respected blogger,” he cried “I’ve been published in the Daily Mail and everything.”
lol round one out comes wee Kev ducking and weaving gets planted by an almighty haymaker from the prof.
Staggering about tripping over his graphs he retaliates with name calling only to get another almighty hook from the profs box of facts.
Referee and crowd went home so did the prof,wee Kev is left shouting to an empty hall that he knows best.
best clown show all year yoons bravo lol
Brilliant article, to which we must keep returning and quoting as we repeatedly knock back the myths and falsehoods that will be continually thrown at us.
I’m keeping this link for my bank of facts.
Handy when dealing with rabid unionists.
It is now time that NS stood up and rubbished GERS for what it is.
The Scottish Government is not doing any of us who debate on other websites any favours by using the discredited GERS figures in their annual analysis of our economy.
Fundraiser worth every penny for this article alone.
Thanks for such a clear summary of GERS.
Heh. That’ll leave a mark. 🙂
Neatly done.
The Money Week link seems to have been reinstated. I clicked on it and was taken to the article.
The way I see it is that Denmark, a small nation in the North Sea, with a similar population to Scotland, hardly any oil, far less fishing and no whisky industry has a far higher GDP, greater prosperity, better quality of life, superb education and a fair social democratic system.
The United States, on the other hand, which Westminster wants to emulate, might have more super-rich than we do but they also have massive poverty, no social healthcare system, few workers rights, eroding environmental standards, practically no welfare state, universities that cost £20,000 per year and a dangerous, violent society. The average cost for a family of four for health insurance is about £12,000 per year.
That’s all I need to know to work out what kind of Society I want Scotland to be. Numbers on a spreadsheet mean nothing if you have an uncaring, brutal system that treats human beings as commodities or economic units.
On PMQs today the Scottish MPs certainly giving Teresa a hard time on consulting Holyrood over Brexit.. No answers from her. Just the usual bluster.
I see the Telegraph has toned down Pearson’s dangerous headline
On another point, SNP getting stuck in at PMQs. May looking rattled
Camy says:
15 March, 2017 at 12:19 pm
Whiskas isn’t a dog food BTW
Maybe that’s why his Dog Food business isn’t doing so well!!
Phantom Power has been trying to get K***n H***e to appear on one of his programs to discuss the economics of Scotland with some real economists – you know, ones who are trained and work in Universities and have qualifications like PhDs and professorships, etc.
He declined to appear – I now know why!
Slightly O/T but also like this – (not my words)
Someone passed this on to me but pretty good.
If Nicola Sturgeon gets her way and Scotland holds a second referendum on Independence before UK leaves the EU, Theresa May will be forced to do the following.
“On the one hand, she will have to warn voters to leave a longstanding union with their country’s most important trading partners would be an act of economic self-harm. In fact it would be a disaster. Anyone who tells them otherwise, the PM must argue, is not living in the real world.
On the other hand, she will simultaneously have to reassure voters that to leave a longstanding union with their country’s most important trading partners will not be an act of economic self-harm. In fact, it will be a success. Anyone who tells them otherwise, the PM must argue, is engaged in baseless scaremongering.
Mrs May has 18mths to work out how best to phrase this. It will be interesting to see what she comes up with”.
Is hypocrisy at work ? Surely not ….
Calum McCaig asks the PM
link to twitter.com
A related link. See under currency and deficit.
link to eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk
Cuts both ways though. What is your pinned tweet GDP figure showing us higher than France based on?
Pro indy. It’s probably correct what is being said but by strategy makes the white paper look a bit silly. Think the Government did the right thing using the false figure. What option do we have?
Kevin Hague is now very deep in the “denial” stage. How does that finalise again?
Very useful, as ever from the Rev. Needs to be repeated over and over to as many waverers as possible.
“Scots will be choosing not between independence and the status quo, as they were in 2014”
Whoa! That’s not right! The No campaign started off insisting it stood for the status quo. But that changed rapidly when the realisation dawned that they were trying to sell the least popular option. After that, the UK Government, the British parties and Better Together/Project Fear started promising all manner of constitutional reform – culminating in the infamous ‘Vow’.
The problem was that, while independence is a simple concept made to look complex by torrents of British nationalist propaganda, what was being offered by the anti-independence campaign was never made clear.
The choice facing voters in 2014 was not between independence and the status quo. It was between asserting their own sovereignty and handing to the British (Tory) establishment the power to define what a No vote meant after the ballots were counted.
Another superb piece of evidence compilation and presentation Stu. which sadly should have been highlighted in every MSM debate on the issue or at least given a mention as part of a balanced partial presentation of debate from both sides of every argument on the subject.
Instead we get a flood of evidence free assertion presented as fact. Unchallenged ranting rhetoric repeated ad nauseum as NEWS.
The sorry fact is once again the decision which is so vital to all of us is going to be taken in blind ignorance by people inundated by misinformation disinformation propaganda bare faced lies and distorted truths because the truth and the facts would have them making an informed choice which would end 310 years of despotic privileged patronised criminally run Government.
Don’t ever tell me we live in a Democracy overseen by a “Mother of all Parliaments”
Just don’t.
I really must share this Twitter comment from someone who I shall refer to as Anonymous,following Prime Minister’s Questions TODAY:
“Scotland, please vote for independence and get the SNP the hell out of Westminster! ” 🙂
O/T but Daily Politics now just ignore SNP input altogether. Disgraceful
” The owners of the country don’t want an educated populace capable of educated thought, sitting around the kitchen table realising how badly they’re getting f**ked” – George Carlin
Who said “Politics is not a game but a serious business “….Theresa May ?…partly yes re “Politics is not a game”.. but actually the full quote is a Winston Churchill quote…..oh my giddy aunt how predictable that she should drain the quote swamp to cherry pick a sliver of a quote from the ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ old boy.
Desperate times indeed.
[…] Scots will be choosing not between independence and the status quo, as they were in 2014 […]
The inference they want to make is that what they’re talking about is a comparison between the economic case for an independent Scotland vs that of remaining part of the UK. If they’re only talking about that of an independent Scotland after a further 2 years of glorious Tory rule since 2014 and the continuing omnishambles that’s Brexit then they’re correct. But I’d argue that’s all the more reason not to have that shower of incompetents in charge.
I hate the Unionist comeback that
GERS fiqures where good enough for the SNP white paper…grrrr
We need a better answer to that statement…does anyone have one ?
I suspect that this may gradually turn into one of the most important posts of our new campaign.
It just kicks unionist legs out !
We all need to get it everywhere possible again and again. I’m starting now.
Much needed, rev, kudos.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
Apologies for “weaponising” this. 😉
Here is an archived link to the now deleted MERRYN-SOMERSET WEBB page under section 2.
link to web.archive.org
Nice try MoneyWeek
I’m not sure which part of the UK actually trusts this Government to deliver on their promises to at least try to get the best deal for Britain but on their track record of U turning alone we have to presume justifiably that their promises are worth as much as I can get from selling the steam off my shite on Gumtree.
Nation Libre says:
15 March, 2017 at 12:59 pm
O/T but Daily Politics now just ignore SNP input altogether. Disgraceful
I have it on very good authority NL that they did so deliberately because they did not want to be left with egg on their face … AGAIN! 😀
I see Mayhem is rather upset that folks are referring to Brexit as a divorce. She aint too happy with this reference. Methinks we should up the anti on her here and only refer to Brexit as a divorce, after all that is all we heard from her lot in 2014 was it not? 😉
Another great article.
Just the ticket and all in one place for easy reference. 🙂
PS:
Plans to increase National Insurance levels for self-employed people – announced in the Budget last week – have been dropped.
Chancellor Philip Hammond has said the government will not proceed with the increases which were criticised for breaking a 2015 manifesto pledge.
In a letter to Tory MPs, he said: “There will be no increases in… rates in this Parliament.”
TM looking extremely uncomfortable at today’s PMQs as if she would rather be anywhere else than in the Commons.
Usual evasion and refusal to answer questions topped by a sickening recital about all the past glories of The UK – I was half expecting her to break into a rendition of Land of Hope and Glory – a real 2 sickbag performance.
If you wondered why England is so determined to hold onto Scotland then consider this.
The Treasury estimates a drop of £60 billion loss of trade post Brexit
Scotland leaving would deny them a further £50 odd billion in taxes and revenue
The National GDP would drop by around £150 billion per year from Scotlands input
All affect borrowing powers.
England would be more like Greece than Greece.
That is why they must hold on to Scotland
And this article, right off the bat belies the nonsense that gets peddled at times that WingsOverScotland is nothing but a ‘news aggregator’.
This pulling together sources, highlighting pertinent information *in context* and then leaving it for the reader to take those final steps is vital.
Not trying to blow smoke up your arse, but just saying I appreciate your efforts.
Surely the Telegraph graphic (top) is an incitement to murder..?
On yer bikes…
link to imgur.com
link to petition.parliament.uk
The counter petition to the one calling for Westminster to ban a referendum. Mind you given the first one has reached a level where a debate has to take place it’s no longer in May and Mundell’s hands so any chance that they’d be able to veto has now vanished.
Fabulous piece of research Stu. Just brilliant.
@Ian S Sanderson
It is certainly incitement and defamatory. The Mail, for once, a mere step behind with ‘BETRAYAL’.
HMG won’t lift a finger and it’s doubtful the authorities will either. This is the narrative and it’s going to get worse.
They are deeply reckless and foolish people.
There is only one way to stop this intimidation. The same way you stop any bully. You make it stop. You cease to be the target by either knocking the bully on their arse, or removing yourself from their sphere of influence.
IMO, we end this by ending our political relationship with a government which creates and condones such a narrative and the media which would callously spread it. Or in short, we tell them to sling their hook and don’t let the door hit their arse on the way oot.
Well that’s one page of the WBB2 taken care of 🙂
Sorry for O/T here but just come across this from the Edinburgh South Labour Party Facebook page.
POSITION DECLARED ON SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE #ScoRef.
In the last independence referendum we strongly campaigned for Better Together.
We have covertly as a group decided on the above. The position now declared by those in Edinburgh South Labour Party is to support Scottish Independence.
Our decision directly relates to the values of Labour.
Our brave decision is at odds with the Scottish Labour leadership and Ian Murray MP. We cannot sit by and allow Conservatives to strip us of EU membership and our Human Rights. We are dismayed by Ian Murray MP to put himself above the People of Scotland.
We’ve had a broken vow, and false expectations of what was to be delivered, angering us within the Labour Party.
We are a group of around 30 Labour members working at varying levels in Scottish Labour.
This time we campaign for Yes Scotland – and we hope you will join us to protect Scotland and Her future rights, privileges and prosperity.
Yours.
Now, like most peeps I am always cynical about anything from Labour. That said, however, I am willing to believe that this is a genuine call from ESLP. To that end I have left them a wee welcome message onto the train to independence.
In the name of solidarity for independence can I suggest that others with a similar view to me perhaps consider posting a wee welcome message to them. I think they might appreciate it, after all they only appear to have around 30 members. I know how I’d feel if I was one of them.
link to facebook.com
Out of passing curiosity what is Kev’s academic discipline? My Masters was in Economic History and Kev’s approach is definitely idiosyncratic (not a crime) but perhaps, far worse, dull. I don’t read his blog not because I disagree, I have no problem reading and disagreeing but because I just wasn’t engaged enough to ever go back. Economics is a dry subject and few can write about it with the fluidity of a Galbraith or Keynes or the sledgehammer wielding remorselessness of Marx.
For those of a certain age:
Don’t be vague…
Arbroath
I will reserve judgement right up to the point where they start asking for funds.
This is the constituency Duncan Hothersall and Scott Arthur operate from.
Treat with caution.
Arbroath 1320
It seems there is no Edinburgh South Labour Party. It’s a spoof apparently.
[…] Wings Over Scotland GERS, by economists The announcement that the Scottish Government would seek the uncontested legal right […]
Imagine this scenario:
A company HQ’d in England (for illustrative purposes, let’s call it Westminster) incurs costs (let’s call it HS2) which only benefits that company’s English operation.
The company however cross-charges an element of those costs to a member of its corporate group (let’s call that member company Scotland), and the member company accounts for those costs in its accounts.
The HQ company likewise incurs numerous other costs which it only uses for the English operation (let’s call them Trident, Crossrail, Hinkley etc), and cross-charges all these additional costs to the corporate group member too, Again, although the corporate group entity doesn’t actually use these costs for its own business, it nevertheless accounts for the costs in its accounts.
But, because the HQ has overspent, it needs to borrow a shitload of money, meaning it has a loss in the HQ accounts.
No worries though, it merely allocates some of those losses to the corporate group member, and of course, that corporate group member includes the losses transferred in its accounts.
Oh, and of course, despite the HQ mismanaging the whole corporate group, it makes a management charge to the corporate group member, and yes, the group member includes these in its accounts.
Having run up a series of debts in the prevailing year, the HQ allocates part of the servicing of that debt to the corporate group member.
Now, imagine if you will that Deloitte were asked to sign of the accounts as ‘a fair and accurate statement’ of the group member’s accounts; it would point blank refuse to do so as the costs, losses and interest payable not only relate to the same thing, but are not in any way associated with the running of the corporate member’s business activity.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is GERS.
@Arbroath1320
I had my suspicions
link to twitter.com
This is the sort of article that should be in The National instead of the airy-fairy items they cover and the nice graphic front pages. Let’s see some real analysis
All of which concludes one thing. Economics and the future is not predictable. Nothing is definite and nothing guaranteed. So basing a vote for your nation on a few dodgy sums is both futile and shallow.
We must vote on democracy and principle and not on the economics of the unknown. There is one guarantee though. If we stay in the UK we are out of the EU,and probably for ever. We will also still have a government 80% of Scots didn’t vote for. With independence we get to choose.
OOPS!
Thanks for the wee correction about ESLP folks … DUH!
Beware of more of this sort of crap LA, the ‘fake sites’ will start springing up all over social media from here on in…we must all be vigilant, the aim is to disrupt and make it look like ‘Labour are for independence’ to fool the unsuspecting yes voter into voting labour in local elections I would imagine. Would be interesting if some tech people can look at source codes etc… 😉
Simple rule of thumb: if it smells like shite and looks like it’s too good to be ‘real’ it probably is shite and it’s certainly not ‘real’.
We must vote for independence for one simple reason…Tory rule for the next 15/20 years…ahm no huvin’ that!
I’d rather live in a tattered shoe box beside a sewer than under the thumb of a bunch of Tory wankers.
Point of order:
“You cannot solve an equation of which you only know, at best, the numbers on one side.”
When I was at school that was exactly the way you were presented with equations to solve. If you know all the numbers on one side then the equation is solvable. If you know all the numbers on both sides it is solved.
Would “You cannot solve an equation with half the numbers missing” be a better way of putting it?
So, basically, the GERS figures are as convincing as Jamie Vardy falling down injured
Then could the SNP reps and other pro-independence types get their fingers out when doing media appearances and laugh these statistics out of the debate.
Don’t argue. Just laugh loudly, and say come back when you know something about the subject.
Been a good day so far Mrs May looks a bit harassed and out of her depth quite frankly at he dispatch box.
Meanwhile Prof Curtis hints that the UK can’t play’the long game’ as simple demography may solve the problem…in the end.
Hope the link works it’s from the WoS twitter. 🙂
link to twitter.com
PS:
In other news Sky saying Mundell under investigation for election fiddle … but no linky thing yet anybody help?
Curtice from Wings twitter ….
link to mobile.twitter.com
…. shoots down interviewer for focusing out bad outlier poll.
in my pitiful defence K1 I would only say that as we have Labour for indy who worked for independence in 2014 and are still working for independence then this did, on the face of it, appear to be a possibility of a realistic turnaround by a particular branch.
*goes hides in corner*
@call me dave
Snap!
Curtice giving a very optimistic (from our viewpoint) appraisal there.
Rev has posted an… interesting… vid on his twitter site. I won’t link to it because, well because it’s pretty offensive in its ethnic bigotry and hatred.
Basically though, it truly is a QED moment for the results of years of government and media narrative. That is a prime example of the mindset and world view it creates.
Well done them.
I’m afraid there is a serious error in your post Stu.
Whiskas is not dog food.
@Brian Powell 1.53
There is however an Edinburgh Pentlands SLab fb page. I know, I’ve been banned! Lol
@ Macart Ocht yer to sensitive ah approved that vid on Scot2.scot 5mins ago lol.
Arbroath1320 says:
“I see Mayhem is rather upset that folks are referring to Brexit as a divorce. She aint too happy with this reference. Methinks we should up the anti on her here and only refer to Brexit as a divorce, after all that is all we heard from her lot in 2014 was it not? ?”
EU = European Union. If it’s a Union then it’s a DIVORCE.
UK = United Kingdom. If it’s a Union then it’s a DIVORCE.
Theresa May would never be happy with the language of DIVORCE re Brexit, nor indeed Scottish Independence, for the obvious reason that divorce is preceded by marriage which is a union of two equal partners.
If we know anything about the English and their ‘effortless superiority’ and inate treachery, we know they do NOT believe in equality past saying they do.
Theresa May is the personification of these English traits.
We shouldn’t even be going into this debate still arguing about the gers figures as presented by the UK unionists and the media. I’m sick of ripping my hair out as the unionists use repetition and simplistic lying techniques to embed complete falsehoods into the political debate. Regarding the very future of this country.
I can’t wait any longer. Please, who has the dog food business???!!!
@ronnie anderson
I am quite delicate for an unshaved potato. 🙂
@Macart
I think the fellow in the video is a contender for leading better together2
Offensive, almost as if he’s been taking Westminster’s rhetoric about Scots to heart.
Poor soul, needs a colonic wash in his mouth for starters.
Just watched it from Rev’s twitter feed too Macart. Hmm…can anyone imagine if a ‘Scottish’ person had produced this xenophobic ignorant rant and put it on you tube?
It’d be viral all over msm by now…
manandboy says:
15 March, 2017 at 2:48 pm
I can’t wait any longer. Please, who has the dog food business???!!!
If memory serves it is everyone’s favourite economist Kevin Hague. To be fair I believe his name is usually spelt K**** H**** 😀
Lest I forget beyond temporarily, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, Stu.
Name a place in Scotland where we should put the statue. But please, not in place of the duke of Sutherland!
(Dominating the skyline above the village of Golspie (and visible from many parts of east Sutherland) is the 100 foot tall statue on top of Ben Bhraggie. It is of George Granville Leveson-Gower, Marquess of Stafford and first Duke of Sutherland who became notorious through the part he played in the Highland clearances.)
This is pretty much the angle I’ve been going for when talking to undecideds/soft no voters for a while. We have no way of knowing the what the numbers are so can’t entirely trust either sides’ presentation of the figures (I also try to avoid freaking people out by going down the modern monetary theory route).
I usually talk about the tangible resources in Scotland that we have in abundance (things that notes and numbers in accounts can’t really buy); fresh water, wind, waves, raw materials, well educated workforce, food, fish, oil, gas, world-leading researchers etc etc.
Look to other small, Northern European democracies with broadly comparable populations to ours. Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, The Netherlands.
What do they have that we don’t have? The ability to make their own choices. That’s it. We’re probably richer than most of them resource-wise. We’ve just been mismanaged.
The main response face-to-face I’ve had is usually something to do with £10 pound pints or high taxes. I usually hit them with an anecdote relating to Icelanders flying back to Reykjavik from Glasgow loaded with shopping bags full of luxury goods from Frasers. They didn’t seem to be managing too badly. Free childcare and a year’s fully paid maternity/paternity leave in Norway looks like a bargain for a few £s extra tax to a young family too.
I see yet another *YAWN* poll has emerged from the ether. This time it’s from ITV.
link to itv.com
From the current results of around 4,200 votes it is NOT looking too good for the NO side.
YES 94%
No 6%
There can only be one thing to say about this result so far …
link to youtube.com
@Liam,
When I did equations there was always one side which = the other. The object was to identify what numbers or values were missing.
Just like GERS.
@Nana
‘colonic mouthwash’
So, not a hug then? 🙂
I seem to remember reading somewhere that requests to Westminster (via an FOI) for more information used in the compilation of GERS have not been fruitful.Can anyone shed any light on this?
@ Macart ah must have toughened up , ave even grown ah beard lol
Excellent summary, Rev.
Just had a look at the comments under Monbiot’s article in the Guardian today. Quite astonishing levels of bile and contempt directed towards Scotland, with ignorant, pompous pronouncements about Scotland’s ‘deficit’, trade links and general penury – all recycled from the English MSM portrayal of a mendicant, stone age dystopia – delivered with the arrogant certainty of a traffic warden in heat.
And these are the ‘liberals’ in Brexit England..
Here it is Rev Stu
Senior EU figure Elmar Brok MEP: Scotland in EU will be “easy”
link to youtube.com
@Macart
Naw, colonic wash with a wire brush! Followed by a rinse with Jeyes fluid.
Comprehensively done, Stu, excellent work!
Keep yourself safe and mind where you go. The Britnat demons have let loose their rabies-ridden dogs of war already, and we’re just a few days in, ffs!
I may be wrong but it appears, to me at least, that the pressure is starting to get to the poor wee lambs in the Tory party. ?
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
@ Nana Somebody fed him that Quorn haggis vile stuff lol.
I’ve just come across the video Nana. I may be wrong here … and today does seem to be the day for me screwing things up 😉 , but I’m on the verge of putting down as a NO voter in the next referendum. ?
Common space have an article on this very topic, but I am unable to link on this device. An Oxford professor who felt the economic case was bad in 2014, now agrees that Scotland would have a great economy. Worth reading to add to the above.
Politics Scotland with one armchair analyst .. Labour’s Margaret Curran. Imagine any UK politics show without a government supporting commemtator on the sofa.
Oh wait now over to Westminster with three unionists against one SNP MP.
Did the SNP now get 56 out of 59 Scottish MPs elected?
Balance my…..
Tune in to channel4 this evening for more on the tory election fraud.
New emails show more members of PM’s top team involved –
link to twitter.com
I do find it mildly annoying that the Scottish Government does not publish its OWN figures – minus highspeed trains in England, minus the new London Sewerage System or nuclear weapons etc etc – all counted against Scotland’s account
Hammond has just pulled back from his NIC raise as a result of pressure because he broke a sacred manifesto promise. Why then does the MSM think that it would be OK for the SNP to break theirs?
Alison Pearson, masquerading as a ‘journalist’ is a fucking disgrace to her ‘profession’.
Alison Pearson’s hate-piece masquerading as an ‘article’, is a fucking disgrace to human decency.
The headline writers at the Telegraph, who thought it reasonable to add that disgusting headline to that Pearson hate-piece, are a fucking disgrace to all who work in the ‘profession”s background.
The Telegraph, masquerading as a ‘newspaper’, is a fucking disgrace to everyone who works in their ‘profession’ for seeing it fit to encourage and incite hatred, hostility and division by printing such vileness as Alison Pearson’s ‘article’.
More on Edinburgh South Labour backing Independence
link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
BBC balanced reporting continues 3 Yoon voices 4 if you include the reporter to 1 pro Indy.
Same repetitive rhetoric. forget Indy get on with the day job. Translation Get the fuck back into your box and finish that fucking cereal once and for all.
Just watching the news and I see Mrs May is saying “Scotland will be leaving the EU regardless.”
So even although she knows:
– we voted against leaving
– there will be another referendum
– we are very likely to continue supporting being in the EU
She will enforce leaving and it will be for Scotland to pick up the pieces – so much for having the interests of this country at heart!!!
I hope all no voters are hearing this crass disregard for the interests of Scotland. They are clearly taking the position;
– we don’t care
– do what you are told
– we will take no account of your interests
Surly even fluffy Mundell will be embarrassed by taking this line.
Any truth in the rumour Kurt Russell is doing a new Snake Plissken movie, ‘Escape from UK’?
We all know that GERS is crap. Even the Unionist who quote it knows it is crap.
However many people in Scotland don’t. When they hear Holyroods OWN figures what do the think.
How do we counter Mr. Ian Langs poison legacy designed to make us look like an economic basket case. We need to hit this hard and early because the “15Billion Pound black hole” is going to be rolled out daily coupled with the Greece of the North.
Don’t get angry——get even.
edinburgh south cpl spoof
brilliant
a lie can travel halfway round the world before the truth gets out
murray and hotherstall will be furious having to clarify their position lol
what ever happened to bettertogether st kilda and norway?
I heard that Better Together tried to have a start up meeting in Motherwell and nobody turned up.
Certainly they had only booked a smallish room but still a nil turn out is an interesting starting point
The Referendum will be a binary choice so SNP, Scottish Greens and other spokesmen should be demanding balance panels, not one from SNP, 3 from other parties.
Think I’ll just leave this here. 😉
Another Scottish independence vote could threaten the U.K.’s credit rating outlook, according to James McCormack, global head of sovereign ratings at Fitch Ratings Ltd.
link to bloomberg.com
Thanks again Stu for this very concise and helpful piece of ammunition for the task now getting underway.
Thanks also to all of your contributors to this web site. I keep all the stuff I consider good for my battle box.
I am printing articles onto hard copy for those that are not computer savvy which seem to be mostly from my generation.
Freedom…..onwards and upwards, lets get out there talking now.
On panels, perhaps SNP and others can refuse to go on unless there are 2 SNP, 1 Green, or 1 SNP, 1 Green and expert of their choice.
They need to make a stand on this and bring it up on every show and with every producer.
A new acronym for GERS is needed:
Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS)
could turn into
Government Evasion Restricting Scotland (GERS)
Seems like a lot of ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ name calling by Brit nats today. I wonder if Ruth or Kez will be called on to condemn them?
link to lbc.co.uk
It’s complicated. And designed to be so to paint us as poor.
However I’ve been trying out a simple solution which works. It goes like this –
“So – an independent scotland would be like Greece without the sun? Nope. It would be like Norway but WITH the whisky.”
It’s a no brainier as Norway is the European country most like us in geography, population and resources. You can see the penny dropping.
A great article, Rev. and a great point-to resource for canvassing: brilliant.
Shug: so that means more people applied for the Motherwell FC job than turned up to be Bitter Together again.
Hilarious.
Geez,
I only realised by looking at K**** H****s twitter bio that he really is just a blogger. I never paid him much attntin and took him for just another neoliberal hack with an economics background.
Incredible to think he gets so much coverage from radio Scotland etc.
Think I might ask to go on. LOL
@bobmack
“When I did equations there was always one side which = the other. The object was to identify what numbers or values were missing.”
That’s what I mean. If you know ALL the numbers on one side then it’s easy.
But this is splitting hairs about a turn of phrase. We have bigger fish to fry.
Today I had the singular pleasure of agreeing with a yoon that, post-independence, we would have to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall. The fact that Hadrian’s Wall is entirely in England and doing so would make Scotland bigger was a surprise to him.
If ignorance is bliss why aren’t the people of England happier that they are?
Today I had the singular pleasure of agreeing with a yoon that, post-independence, we would have to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall. The fact that Hadrian’s Wall is entirely in England and doing so would make Scotland bigger was a surprise to him.
I’m wondering if, when the next indy ref comes around and the requisite Wee Blue Book Mark II appears if perhaps a wee map of current UK is included, specifically the area North and South of Hadrian’s Wall. With Engerland,Scotland and Hadrian’s Wall all clearly marked it would certainly highlight to those not very well educated about the geography of the British Isles exactly where Hadrian’s wall is.
This may very well significantly curtail all the nonsense we constantly hear about rebuilding Hadrian’s wall. Unless of course in so doing those spouting this rebuilding idea are throwing Cumbria and Northumberland over to us a move that the locals would most surely appreciate. 😀
Bob Mack said at 3:21 pm:-
“Common space have an article on this very topic, but I am unable to link on this device.
An Oxford professor who felt the economic case was bad in 2014, now agrees that Scotland would have a great economy. Worth reading to add to the above.”
I think this is the article Bob Mack refers,well worth a read from CommonSpace dated today.
link to tinyurl.com
What kind of mentally defective adult thinks it is OK to write things like this?
4 hours ago
Andrey
Four polls just showed that Scots are not going to vote for independence – a good slap on the butt for the petulant red haired child.
From the ‘intellectual’ Independent btl on the Matthew Norman article.
Sorry Bob Mack , I just get ANGRY!
Oh boy, I just about fell off my seat laughing at the Question asked by SNP MP Callum McCaig today at Prime Minister’s questions,
“Can I ask the Prime minister, does she really believe the UK can afford to be an independent country?”
Excellent. Truly excellent. GIRFUY Westminster.
link to twitter.com
Norway envies Scotland for at least 2 reasons – whisky being one, but the other biggy is the English language which is worth a fortune to Scotland not least when trading internationally.
Just skimming through this, but I take it folk know Sky News used Kevin Hague’s figures as an on screen source on Monday?
I can’t wait until Theresa May does her UK-wide tour to unify the country. Because when she sneers that, “Scotland is leaving the EU no matter what”, then she really does risk UDI.
But what really, really pisses me off with those types of remark is not so much her, it’s that Dugdale says nothing in return, because it would be “too divisive”. Surely, Kezia, there comes a point where you have to stand up for your country?
Will these May elections be a game-changer? Will Labour do so badly that Kezia will resign the next day? And will her replacement actually stand up to the arrogance and bile from the country that Kezia wants to belong to forever and ever amen?
People if some of you carry on like this you’ll end up with a stroke/aneurism long before the vote.
We’ve had this all before. Its the same old shite. We all know that. So try not to let it annoy you unless its aimed at you personally.
When they have something new in Project Fear 2 which seems to work THEN start getting agitated.
One thing I would say is that if you see any social media/blog/whatever stuff with even the slightest hint of inciting/inflicting violence then report it to the cops. Both sides, not just the yoons.
I’m fairly sure that around December a FoI request to Police Scotland would show the true nature of things. I say December because you probably won’t get it until June 2018 😉
tl;dr calm down peeps. Long road ahead with plenty of potholes. Loads of abuse incoming (as last time), shrug it off.
Scots need to ask themselves why they’re looking out of the bus window, at pleasant looking people in £120K Bentley’s, porsches, mercs and beemers, on the way to that slave wage, zero hour contract job.
Its not by chance. Its all down to very rich dudes like Crash Gordo, Lord Flipper, George Osborne, latest tory chancer Hammond and on it goes in teamGB.
Theresa May is in trouble. Let’s see how she gets out of it, if at all.
Kezia is a different kettle of fish and in a very much lower league. Totally out of her depth, utterly dependent on PR scripts and is an object of pity. Lives in a fantasy world. It is very difficult to see a political future for her of any meaningful kind whatsoever. Her only asset is she’s a well kent face.
link to caltonjock.com
Laura Kuenssberg at her capers yet again
Guardian hysterical as ever, last hour of that crew running around Scotland trying to stamp out Scottish democracy, shock
Scottish independence Opinion
Nicola Sturgeon can’t rely on Brexit to win Scottish independence
John Curtice
Scottish independence
Scottish independence: May set to refuse referendum until after Brexit
UK prime minister expected to argue that holding vote before final EU deal is agreed would be premature and misleading
It was Severin Carrell what saved England’s control!
One example I looked into about a year ago was the cost of Benefits. If you go to the DWP website, it can tell you how many people claim what benefits and what part of the country they live in. If you ask for the cost of these benefits, it takes an average cost per claimant for the whole of the UK and multiplies it by the number of claimants in the locality. This is patently absurd. The cost per person of many benefits is substantially higher in London than in Scotland (e.g. Housing Benefit) so the DWP statistics are grossly overstating the costs of benefits in Scotland and grossly understating them for London. Since every benefit claimant has an address and postcode, there is no reason why accurate figures cannot be produced but the DWP chooses not to do this.
The DWP figures for benefits costs cannot be trusted. How many other public expenditure figures are distorted in a similar manner?
Well Done again Rev!
This where people like you and the Cuthberts are so incredibly important to our cause.
Very few of us could ever carry out research to this level and nail these Unionist Liars to the floor.
Yet another reason to be rid of the lying, scheming, house of corruption that is the Westminster Government.
3 years ago, I would never have believed the levels of masking and distorting of the truth that takes place on a daily basis, across the entire range of UK media.
If only we had our own Radio or TV Channel.
People could become educated!
There’s a thought there was a Lanarkshire TV Channel for a time.
After the May Council Elections in North and South Lanarkshire, the SNP may be able to resurrect it with Real Programming?
Indy Ref has certainly put a spanner in the works re Brexit negotiations with EU….how on earth will UKOK be able to negotiate new trade deals in respect to anything Scottish when Indy Ref on cards…..If MAY dictates that Indy Ref MUST be POST BREXIT negotiations then anything relating to Scotland would surely be non binding in event of pro Independence vote …surely ?
How can EU accept trade deal with UK on Scottish matters ?
How will EU respond to trade relating to Scotland when negotiating with UKOK ?
Oh my God the backlash from Brexiteers towards Scotland will be a torrent of momentous sweaty Jock ridden abuse…pretty much same as now actually lol….
Cannot deny May has backed herself into a corner through her own arrogant position re Scotland….hell mend her and her tyrannical rule I say. What comes around goes around…Amen to that.
Extreme right wing Tories must be seething und pure ragin…much gnashing of teeth…heard John Redwood was apoplectic …cause he know…oh he know what this could mean hee hee hee…. LOL…BLOL..
One of the sobering aspects of post-graduate study is the realisation that you will never know everything in your own field. Even if it’s a tiny field, and you are the top dog, there will always be something new to learn, and your previous assumptions will change.
And particularly, you know that people in other fields of academia are so far advanced in their own speciality that the notion of disputing aspects of it with them simply wouldn’t occur to you.
KH has no more than a good BSc in engineering. Why on earth does he think he argue economics with highly qualified economists? It makes him look limited and dim.
And here we go. The hootsmon now superficially trumpeting figures from Prof. McLaren that Scotland would have 11bn deficit in 2019/20 compared to rUK which will be close to zero at same point.
(He obviously has a better source of data than the other sources quoted in the article).
It would be interesting if someone could ask him to explain/quantify the revenues and expenditure that the figures are based on, and what figures were used for the “EU divorce bill” and drop in revenues for rUK.
What a fantastic piece Rev. Stu!
I’m keeping this. Great comments Wingers!
Who needs nasty Britnat media, we have our own, and it’s much better!
Vestas says:
I was just think that!
Things will improve (for our health) when on the ground YES campaigning begins. Getting out and about. Some of that for the Council elections, stalls, leafleting etc..
As for the online stuff, it’s suddenly taken several jumps upward in intensity. Definitely not healthy swimming in shite day after day!
Is it just me, or is life as we have known it, actually undergoing a series of tectonic changes, that will require a new way of thinking in order to be able to live with it.
I suspect one of the first casualties will be ‘a quiet life’. Another will be for everything to ‘calm down’. Yet another, ‘our way of life’.
Since 2012, we’ve already had 5 years of political turmoil and social grief, and it may well have only just begun, as Brexit brings us all the labour pains of a new era.
Independence is a choice at the moment. Soon, it may very well be an absolute necessity.
Oops! Three in a row hello from Graun, UKOK hysterics after just 2 days is like watching a fireworks display. No idea who Gile Tremlett but judging by the moniker, he’s clearly one more of the Graun’s horny handed working class heroes, to save teamGB etc,
Scottish independence
Opinion
Why Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to join the EU
Giles Tremlett
An independent Scotland’s route to EU membership would be easier, and possibly quicker, if the SNP delayed until after Brexit
Awe, here is Giles Tremlet
link to faber.co.uk
Giles Tremlett
Giles Tremlett is the Guardian’s Madrid correspondent. He has lived in, and written extensively about, Spain almost continuously since graduating from Oxford University twenty years ago.
What a surprise:D
@Alistair 5:41
It’s unfathomable, why are they not just saying no need for a referendum you already have a mandate to leave.
They are not really interested in you, me or anyone in Scotland. But the resources, the resources, they need them.
O/T
For anyone who missed the phone in referendum special with Alex Salmond. Watch it here
link to lbc.co.uk
Tories being investigated by police for electoral fraud in general election.
link to archive.is
If found guilty might this make brexit void as if no majority, cameron could not have called brexit referendum?
Article’s great.
OT
Looking at the map of that petition to stop the Ref, and there’s about an average of 70 per constituency over England, NI and Wales @ 590 constutencies = 41,500 from 127,000 = 85,500.
Democratically they’ve a ways to go yet – wonder if Westminster will care?
alistair says:
Indeed. Sounds like an Alice in Brexit Wonderland piece of fiction to me too.
One of the few certainties of this Brexit fiasco is that the UK/rUK is going to be in a poorer economic state for years to come.
The Brexit Project is all about right wing ideology fused with rampant blood and soil nationalism which all comes with a substantial cost. Pretending otherwise seems foolish.
@manandboy 5:47 pm :
“Is it just me, or is life as we have known it, actually undergoing a series of tectonic changes, that will require a new way of thinking in order to be able to live with it.”
I suspect not 🙂
If you’re referring to the way the internet/various social media nets interact then maybe.
My daughter & I had a discussion about that today at lunch & the consensus seemed to be that twitter enabled idiots to sway more idiots. I paraphrase here but she said “the only reason to have a twitter account is for live footie scores”.
The discussion started up about Trump & how my daughter had spotted Trump getting past the POTUS account filters by retweeting one of his personal accounts.
/me shrugs 🙂
Dugdale now giving maths lessons:
10 / 4 = 4
Good grief, did she go to school when Labour ran education. Lets hope she never is control of Scotland’s finances.
OK, people, you know what to do. Share this far and wide. We need to debunk the nonsense that we are in a worse economic position compared to 2014.
Simon Wren-Lewis, Professor of economic policy at the Blavatnik School of government at Oxford University and a fellow of Merton College:
“The bottom line is that the case for Scottish independence is now much stronger than it was in 2014.”
link to commonspace.scot
@jfngw 5:52
Our inevitable, humungous debt that we won’t be able to manage is about as annoying as the constantly quoted size of the UK market to Scotland.
Where do those figures come from, clearly showing Scottish exports shipped from transit through other UK ports correctly assigned as Scottish and not rUK. Plus a clear delineation of all vat and corporation tax derived revenue from Scottish based operations.
Like the analysis of GERS, they conveniently don’t exist.
Another one for Rev Stu to turn his attention to !
An aside, I see this woman Allison Pearson is attempting to influence the content of the Referendum question by asserting that ‘most Scots will vote to ‘Stay’ in the Yookay.
Brewer hinted at another form of question to avoid the pro independence YES response,on his wee prog the other day. It will still be hard to sell No, even more so now.
Well, I’ve got news for you Onions:
The question will not be revised to read:-
‘Should Scotland Stay in the UK?’
Good try, but no cigar.
@alistair 6:09
The negatives will only be highlighted by the MSM, I can’t see any way a fair media coverage of the referendum is going to take place. It’s an uphill struggle but hopefully the facts can be spread. As with the Elmar Brok interview, cut off promptly when BBC realised he wasn’t saying want they wanted, this will continue.
Re the fooking zoomer
You tube “Christopher Eccleston reciting Evidently Chickentown” to see how it’s really done.
Just seen an item on Scotnews about the old Royal High School building and its proposed use as an hotel which doesn’t seem to be gathering much support. I would suugest that it would make a perfect English embassy building.
O/T is the Fluffster helping the police with their expenses fraud election wise, again?
link to bbc.co.uk
Police have confirmed they are investigating a complaint of an alleged breach of election expenses rules by Scotland’s only Tory MP.
It follows newspaper reports that a bill for £700 had been omitted from David Mundell’s campaign costs.
Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary said it had been asked to investigate.
Not so future Lord Fluffie must have a wing named after him in that cop shop by now.
Just watched the Rev’s angry man twitter link, really funny.
The Rev failed to mention which Gov minister has this person as their permanent secretary, their eloquence has somewhat deteriorated since the days of the First Minister programmes.
G4jeepers says:
15 March, 2017 at 6:17 pm
Re the fooking zoomer
Will the EU community of so many different people miss them:D
link to pulseofeurope.eu
Absolutely LOVE YOUTUBE video captured by Stu….what with the fluffed words….EU..eh…UK…EU…UK…obvs fluffed as he couldnae wait to unleash the torrent of abuse………………… Wahahahahhaha….pure comedy gold….wot a geezer….disappointed YOUTUBE took it down…..I mean initially he was looking at his notes to REMEMBER percentages so HE HAD DONE his RESEARCH YOUTUBE wahahaha….my whole family have now watched this and we had to watch again because it was so so funny…..hope he comes up to Edinburgh Fringe …..free show obvs …he could call it ‘Irony and Me’ BLOL…..oh the banter …please watch it pure 1st class comedy gold……what a laddie….I had to change my underpants three times …oops I did it again.
RT has an Australian so called professor from Kingston giving his opinion on Brexit , Scotland et al 18:50 to 18:58
Trouble is he does not no the difference between England and Britain
poor job for RT
Kevin will be worried he loses his television income *cough as a highly respected but barking economist…
It’s gonna be EFTA folks,
Which is nice.
Time to gen up on the rules n regulations.
The Rennie doctrine on display with their ppl. The UK should have a second referendum on the EU exits proposals, but if this is rejected then the Scots should be denied a referendum on the same deal.
This man claims to be pro-EU and representing Scotland’s interests, hold on till I reposition my donkey ears.
We can only lose the next referendum and the deficit is going to be one of the major Obstacles.
Surely there is nothing to stop the SNP to hire one of the major accountancy firms to demand access to all records of VAT, Income Tax etc. and get true figures.
Can you imagine what would happen to you or I we produced annual tax returns without proof of every penny coming and going in a financial year.
I’m sure someone like Delotte would be quite happy to provide this service.
It became obvious today that May is trying to force Scotland out of the EU against its will. The loss of Scotland will devastate the English credit rating and mean that all the brass plates of companies would come North of the border in addition to financial sector businesses.
We would expand rapidly and May views this as a threat to England. She must stall us whilst she sets England up as a tax shelter to try and keep the financial investment which is worth billions.
She is doing this for England ,not the UK.
I understand requests were made to UKgov for true figures in 2014, but these were refused. Apparently Cameron said we could see the books if YES won.
Why this wasn’t brought up at every available opportunity is beyond my understanding.
Why won’t they show us the books?
Aye, but, why won’t they show us the books?
What’s this deficit of which you speak? Let’s see the books.
Yesindyref2 – re:petition to stop the Ref
Happened to be up about 3.30 this morning and had a look at this petition. You would not believe how quick the numbers were clocking up at that time in the morning. I mean it was like looking at an Avaaz worldwide petition they way that clock was going. For a nation of around 2 million no voters most of them seem to be insomniacs. LOL.
Hope this will play OK. Short video cartoon of the BREXIT complications. UK is doomed.
link to ft.com
O/T Martin Lewis Website
Can I suggest everybody on WoS votes on this online poll as it will no doubt appear somewhere.
Quite big numbers
link to moneysavingexpert.com
O/T
Live now with @weegingerdug at @ScotNational roadshow in Edinburgh
link to livestream.com
Clapper57 @ 17:39, Bob Mack @ 19:21,
You are both dead right. It’s about England taking Scotland prisoner so it can’t be a competitor, and a very vibrant one to be feared, at that.
This whole “Brexit with Indy” isn’t a can of worms, it’s a whole meta-universe of worms. I don’t think anyone has a clue yet what it all signifies.
But one thing seems clear. If the Mayhem Gang think that delaying indy till after Brexit is their “get out of jail card”, they are mistaken. The mere prospect of an independence referendum on the horizon will be enough to deny them any right to conclude an agreement with the EU27, or indeed anybody else, involving any Scottish rights or resources. Since otherwise they could sell off the country and its contents beforehand, lock, stock and barrel, and leave us with absolutely nothing. Talk about “selling the family silver”!
If she were wise, TM would pick up the phone, call Nicola and agree an amicable separation on the spot. Better to get it done and out of the way, then move on with some credit for recognising the inevitable rather than suffering loss of face from a referendum result. Judging from what I’ve heard about yoonatic rhetoric, TM would have no political price to pay at home either (where it matters to her). Maybe even the contrary.
Unlikely, I admit. Wisdom is in short supply, and UKGov power-hoarding instincts are far too entrenched.
O/T Sorry forgot to say Scotland & Norn Irn voting pro ‘Scottish Independence’
England and Wales against 🙁 (Come on Wales??!)
@Albert Herring 7:21
It’s done the same way the BBC does financing of the Nations. Money is allocated as Nation spend, but you will find that lots of this money is actually not being spent in the Nation. The vast majority of the new £20m network spend will more than likely result in a couple of jobs in Scotland and the production being made more often than not in England. Even when they use the studio at PQ lots of the senior roles are people flown up from London but a BBC Scotland logo will be slapped on it.
Also note that I have been informed the new Scotland channel will not be in HD, had a feeling this might be the case.
gordoz says:
15 March, 2017 at 7:48 pm
O/T Martin Lewis Website
I live in Scotland (9568 votes)
Yes to Scottish independence 6326 votes (66%)
No to Scottish independence 3202 votes (33%)
I’d abstain 40 votes (0%)
Also, I just did 12 minutes of situps:D
I live in England (10354 votes)
Yes to Scottish independence 3607 votes (35%)
No to Scottish independence 6411 votes (62%)
I’d abstain 333 votes (3%)
This does seem like a great poll.
@heedtracker
Weird how Scotland & England polar opposite (almost)
What the Hell is wrong in Wales ???
Has any pollster ever done an English indy poll?
@ Albert Herring
Err wasn’t the the Brexit thingy ??
@gordoz
‘Come on Wales’
I believe Allison Pearson is Welsh, it seems to be just Lesser England now.
What the Hell is wrong in Wales ???
The Welsh are a defeated people. They love it when you tell them that too:D
But a lot of Wales are so far from self government in their minds, and Scottish independence is going to diminish England a hell of a lot, they clearly do not want the biggy’s to lose out.
Wales just has a large English population.
Interesting that a majority in Northern Ireland think we should be independent.
Wales has a large and militant settler population of English people. They object loudly to Welsh people speaking Welsh, for example, swearing (quite literally, I have heard them) that the Welsh only speak their own language in their own country to annoy and spite decent English settlers. I strongly suspect that they provided a large chunk of the Brexit vote.
You can imagine what their view of rebellious Scots is – Send in General Wade!
O/T Exit polls say that the Dutch PM Mark Rutte has won the election. Geert Wilders’ anti-immigration party trailing behind. BREXITEERS will be so disappointed.
link to bbc.co.uk
You can imagine what their view of rebellious Scots is – Send in General Wade!
Virginia Wade more like.
link to twitter.com
is very very pro YES Scotland and certainly wants Welsh devo max. She also has a cracking arse:D
Its the sit ups, and that moneysavingexpert poll, endorphins.
O/T
But on economics -sort of
Story in the Telegraph on line saying that BBC reporter – you know who – alerted Hammond to the manifesto promise about NI
“”Asked when he first knew the manifesto was an issue, he told a fellow MP: “Since he asks me the question who first raised the issue of the manifesto I think credit where credit is due. I think it was actually Laura Kuenssberg on the BBC, shortly after I said it in the Budget speech.”””
LeanneWood Retweeted
Plaid Cymru?Verified account @Plaid_Cymru Mar 13
More
“Do we want to be part of an EnglandandWales entity perpetually ruled by Tories or do we want something better?” @LeanneWood tells @ITVWales
@Legerwood,
It was actually not Laura Kuennsberg. It was a member of the SNP who informed another SNP member who was talking. I don’t think Hammond wanted to mention that.
That is why Alex Salmond asked the question.
Why hasn’t this excellent examination of GERS not been given more coverage by the SNP , why’s it been left to the Rev to cover this, come on get into gear, watching the wee ginger dug (Paul Kavanagh ) on Livestream just now, what a speaker and NO Notes , covered every single point we will be questioned about, worth his weight in gold a great speaker.
So just another love bomb from the Daily Goose steppers at the Daily Heil then.
Legerwood says:
15 March, 2017 at 8:38 pm
‘Story in the Telegraph on line saying that BBC reporter – you know who – alerted Hammond to the manifesto promise about NI’
Thats almost beyond parody if true. The Chancellor doesnt even know whats in his own party’s manifesto. Laura should also point out that staying in the Single Market was also in the Tory manifesto. Maybe they’ve forgotten that too.
Good to be back here. Spent too long today BTL in dark places infested with Scot and SNP haters. Think I’ll just pour myself a nice wee malt.
@Robert Graham
If the SNP raise this they will be set upon by the UK media as denying and trying to cover up the deficit. It’s not as straightforward as telling the truth, not when nearly the whole media are waiting to pounce. Then pressed to produce the real figures but as they don’t have access to them, cannot. They will also be asked why they published these figures since 2008 without comment.
The exposure of these facts really needs to be done outwith the SNP, no matter how frustrating it may be.
Nation Libre,
“This is the sort of article that should be in The National instead of the airy-fairy items they cover and the nice graphic front pages. Let’s see some real analysis.”
No chance.
The National will continue to milk gullible independence supporters (9,000 at the last count) for as long as possible before making its excuses and stop publishing when the independence campaign gets going.
It is not lack of funds or staff that stops The National from taking as strong a pro-independence stand as the anti-independence stand of its older sister, The Herald.
Less gullible independence supporters will not have failed to notice that the author of this blog, by far the best pro-independence journalist around, has been avoided like the plague by the “independence supporting” The National.
Robert Graham,
“Why hasn’t this excellent examination of GERS not been given more coverage by the SNP”
What prevents the “independence supporting” The National from paying a reasonable fee to the Rev. Stuart Campbell to publish this article as front page headline news?
Here we go again.
Paper. Scissors. Time for Bed.
Anyone else hear 9.00 news on RS?
Bizarre and creepy – sounded like Pamela Haveron was pished, or having a stroke. Sounded ‘normal’ by the end but I’ve never heard anything like that. Do they record the news in advance. Can’t think how else that mad effect might happen, unless it’s me ears…
Well you cant really blame them for not wanting to be left all on their own with the country that was determined to erase their nationality from history heed.
I think it is more a plea please dont leave us alone with these idiots lol
I really feel for the Welsh they are up against it,however who knows once Scotland and NI break the UK it might open a door for them or at least give them some leverage so that westminster has to treat them good in case they decide to leave as well.
Should the Rev write for the National ? What for ? He has more readers than the National. He has complete editorial control over Wings. He has a community rather than just a publication.
No ,the Rev is just fine doing what he does,as he does thank you.
Capella says:
15 March, 2017 at 8:30 pm
O/T Exit polls say that the Dutch PM Mark Rutte has won the election
I’m surprised, I thought the only candidate was G. Wilders and he was a shoo in. I get my information from the BBC.
Is anybody standing against Le Pen in France?
Bob Mack @ 8.50 and Glamaig @ 8.51
The plot thickens. Hammond certainly would not want to give Mr Salmon any credit and neither would the Telegraph. Wonder if Ms Keunssberg comment? Rhetorical question
Interesting times.
Ian brotherhood 9.15pm
I hear a lot of bizarre and creepy things on the BBC.
It’s what they do.
Pour yourself a large one mate. LOL
All nationalists should buy the National.
Some people would like to see it fold so we don’t have a voice.
Simples really.
BBC newsroom journalists gutted at Netherlands result, chance for fame and honours on hold. They are now relying in LePen to deliver them from this abyss of EU unity.
I subscribe monthly to the National and will continue to do so. I am old enough to make up my own mind what purpose it serves, others have their view ,and I have mine
Decent news from NL. Shame that they’ll have another Tory government, like. The so-called ‘Nexit’ was never gonna happen, though. Wilders getting more votes than anyone else was unlikely enough; but even if he had he wouldn’t have been able to force through any kind of change, let alone leaving the EU. As we all know, the British press were gleefully reporting otherwise.
GIRUY to all the people who were cackling at Europe’s “imminent collapse”. They’ll be getting their Le Pen t-shirts oot noo, the pr1cks.
Wangland, it’s just you. Only you.
Oh, that’s me just caught up with all the posts from the last 3 days. Excellent reading as ever, folks, and thank you for that. I especially loved the last No-to-Yes video – they’re all really good, but this was probably the best one yet.
English media are desperate for another country to go off the cliff with them.
They were hoping for the Dutch to vote in a right wing nut. It won’t happen.
They will turn to France next and hope Le Pen wins. They are also hoping that Germany votes in an anti EU candidate.
It is not going to happen, since the Brexit vote support for the EU has increased in these countries.
England are going off the cliff all by themselves.
Again, in case anybody missed it
“The bottom line is that the case for Scottish independence is now much stronger than it was in 2014.”
link to commonspace.scot
Give it a look if you haven’t been there today.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
The National is OK a good read bought two today, left it in the cafe. 🙂
The X-word had William Wolfe, Wendy Wood and Gordon Wilson in it today
That Mundell in erection investigation whisper might just be the 2010 story about £700 expenses getting thrown in in error.
Pity it would have been a big story!
O/T
Monaco just kicked Man City out of the Champions League.
Just sayin!
call me dave says:
15 March, 2017 at 9:52 pm
That Mundell in erection investigation
Goodness me
@Call me Dave,
Freudian slip in the third last line Dave !!
” undeadshaun” @ 0557pm , how convenient that the election fraud story has been ignored
since the general election. Howevever, if the establishment wish to have a GE perhaps over
Brexit, which requires another ” Tory leadership coup” ( as per the most recent one), then this
can be conveniently arranged with the ” election expenses ” fiddle resurfacing especially if Scottish independence looks ” increasingly likely” in the medium term. Assuredly , the establishment will ” ditch TM ” ( with the usual men in grey suits scenario ) , if Nicola appears to be increasingly likely to
win Indyref2. As I stated some time ago on an earlier post , the real and absolute fear of the Westminster establishment is not in fact the relatively ” mild” doomsday scenario of Brexit, but the ” absolutely unmitigated catastrophic & cataclysmic” loss of Scotland to the ” Westminster imperial masters” .
If another ” coup” is required to ” cancel Brexit or negotiate with Nicola” , IT WILL BE ARRANGED , come what “MAY” .
if buying the national keeps the wgd and lesley riddoch employed, that in itself is enough reason, the rev manages very well without it
all 3 are star performers
Another inspiring tweet from Dugdale, we only have false hope.
The Labour and Tory reunion
Is only a motion away
To misquote Paul Simon.
@Cadogan Enright
RT has an Australian so called professor from Kingston giving his opinion on Brexit , Scotland et al 18:50 to 18:58
That sounds like steve keen. He was very down on scottish independence in 2014. Think his comment was that the finance system would dwarf the economy. I think there seems to be lack of understanding that we don’t want to be a mini Britain.
It’s a shame as keen is a fantastic economist who called out the financial crisis long before it happened.
Be good to get him onside but he supported brexit
@call me dave
Oooo err missus! 😮
Call Me Dave @9:52
Don’t think the Mundell thing will stand up it’s own, maybe someones been manipulating it.
Its now nearly two days since the FM’s announcement and I’m still amazed about what a masterstroke it was. I really don’t see a way forward for May and the UK. She has only 3 options as far as I can see
1. Deny the section 30 request. I would expect the FM to call a Scottish election which in turn would provide the FM with a renewed mandate and probable majority whilst at the same time plainly insulting every Scottish voter. Even most Unionists would agree this is suicide.
2. May allows section 30 but tries to delay the date until 2020 or 2021. As John Curtice outlined today demographic changes over time will lead to a Yes majority. This coupled with the perception that she would be both running scared , interfering with Scotland’s wishes and the full horrors of Brexit starting to feed through means she would lose.
3. May allows the Section 30 on the FM’s dates and terms. If May does this it looks to the rest of the UK like the FM has May over a barrel. To the EU she would look weak and further undermine a very weak negotiating position. Not only would she lose the referendum she might be ousted by the right wing of her party before the end of the year.
May was expecting Sturgeon to announce after she had issued article 50 to the EU. That would have allowed May to show the rabid right wing press that she was in charge of the Brexit process & timetable whilst presenting Sturgeon as a sideshow. May has no idea right now how to deal with Sturgeon’s announcement on Monday hence she is playing for time by delaying the article 50 notification and trying to throw in diversions by reversing the NIC decision. The Tory expenses is to me another large squirrel to play for time.
I think its fair to say that the FM and the SNP know this and are now goading May (see FM’s tweets on mandate and Angus Robertson and Calum McCaig’s questioning today). They know she needs to pick an option, she knows to pick an option and they all know that all options lead to Scottish Independence. The goading will ensure she loses her temper and chooses the wrong option.
Scotland will be brexiting.
So the choice will between brexit in the U.K. or brexit to independence.
This proposed referendum window is too late to prevent Scotland leaving the EU.
caz-m
ukippers dream of a independent uk, the one fly in the ointment is the eu.
even they cant ignore or dismiss the largest trading block in the world.
while it remains it is a threat to there plans. that is why farage spends so much time undermining the eu and supporting other eu groups like the national front and interveiwing marine le penn.
farage will be very dissapointed by the dutch result tonight.
good. brexit’s success depends on this years eu elections, they are failing, our success is linked to brexits failure
Bob Mack,
“Should the Rev write for the National ? What for ? He has more readers than the National. He has complete editorial control over Wings. He has a community rather than just a publication.”
It is not a question of the Rev. writing for The National.
It is a question of the “independence supporting” The National publishing the Rev.’s excellent articles as front page headline news.
The National claims to be short of staff and resources.
I am sure the Rev. wouldn’t demand exorbitant fees for The National to publish his articles.
Despite relentless promotion of The National by posters on this website, some of whom claim to buy multiple copies, The National’s sells merely 9,000 copies.
As for The National being hidden in shops, I would suggest it is on the instructions of The National’s unionist milkers.
They know that gullible independence supporters will search for them and buy them even if they are hidden.
But they don’t want unionists to notice or buy them.
@ Glamaig
Is anybody standing against Le Pen in France?
Only some right wing chap with a Welsh wife who’s under investigtion by the police. Much like UK. So fingers crossed!
schrodingers cat 10.31pm
Totally agree. The Kippers thought that country after country would head for the EU Exit door. It isn’t going to happen.
England will be alone, isolated and skint.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer shower.
Wha…t… FGS! and I was in the Apostolics for a long while as a younger person, repressed.
As the Ma Broon might say “I’m black affronted” 🙁
I agree with others, that the news from Holland is good. The mad brexiteers were seriously hoping for new allies. Next they will be talking up le Pen in France, in the hope she wins there.
Meanwhile, back in Scotland, if you haven’t read ‘The National’ newspaper yet, give it a try, either in print or in digital. Sadly some shops seem to hide it near the bottom, but many, like Scotmid have them on full display. They have wee ginger dug, Greg Moodie, and the likes of Pat Kane and Lesley Riddoch writing for them. It needs our support, since despite its minor flaws, it is the only paper supporting independence.
Another bad night for our toryboy imperial masters, in the Netherlands. Oh how the Ligger, Nic Robinson etc hoped this would never happen, cant wait for the tory spin to explain lefties on the up in the evil EU,
5m ago
22:42
Angela Merkel congratulates Rutte
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has congratulated Mark Rutte on his party’s strong showing in the 2017 election in a telephone conevrsation. According to Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert, she said:
I look forward to working with you as friends, neighbours and Europeans.
O/T
For anyone who missed Nicola on channel 4 earlier
link to channel4.com
@ North chiel 10.03 That scenario is awaiting dependant on how long it takes the Electoral Commission / Police to conclude they’re investigations . A UK general election wipes the slate clean & that would suit Westminster Establishment.
Guy Verhofstadt
2 hrs ·
Facebook Mentions
·
First exit polls look great! The VVD is by far the biggest party (31 seats). D66 is up by a lot (with 19 seats the second force). The pro-European parties are on the rise. The Netherlands remains a liberal and pro-European stronghold!
It’s unfortunate for the rUK that it wants to cut itself off from Scotland which will be part of the largest trading block in the world
I’m not sniggering, I’m not
Wee bit, well
Big!
This has to be partly down to Farage, UKIPer idiots, BBC tory gimps such the Ligger, all praying that the EU breaks apart. The Dutch watch BBC grot too.
21m ago
22:39
GreenLeft leader hailed as the “Jessiah”
Jon Henley Jon Henley
Jon Henley has this piece from the night on the surprise gains for the GreenLeft.
The big winner of Wednesday’s Dutch election – and now the largest party of the left for the first time – was GreenLeft, headed by 30-year-old Jesse Klaver, hailed by his enthusiastic supporters as the “Jessiah”.
According to a generally reliable Ipsos exit poll, the party, formed 25 years ago by a merger of communists, pacifists, evangelicals and self-styled radicals, quadrupled its MPs from four to 16 after a storming campaign by Klaver.
“Richard Murphy –
@RichardJMurphy
Tax justice campaigner. Professor of Practice in International Political Economy, City, University of London. Chartered accountant. Author of The Joy of Tax”
From Twitter…
“I do not support any political party if that’s the question. But would I vote yes? I would: only rational choices“
From Stu’s twitter. David Davies and the Brexit committee.
link to twitter.com
Nice to see they’ve thought it all out. 40% tariff on Agri anyone…?
Loss of Financial passporting…