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A trivial omission

Posted on February 27, 2017 by

Our attention was drawn today to hardcore shrieky Loyalist nutter collective Scotland In Union releasing “new research” on an independent Scotland’s finances, which in fact came out last year but which for unknown reasons they’re touting again now.


Commissioned by the loongroup from a London-based thinktank that we’d never heard of by the name of “Europe Economics”, it predictably produces a doom-and-gloom conclusion that independence would have cost over £10bn in the first year.

There are so many gaping chasms in the logic we could hardly stop laughing for long enough to type, but one in particular was worth wiping the tears from our eyes for.

The thinktank appear to be slightly embarrassed at the parameters that they’ve been asked to work within, and accordingly the report’s eight pages (four of which are blank) are littered with disclaimers.

Our favourite was the admission early on that they’d only been asked to calculate the NEGATIVE ramifications of independence, and to exclude any potential positives.


The reports also admit that its calculations are based on an independent Scotland inheriting £125bn of UK debt – the history of nations leaving the UK is that all debt remains with the UK, and the UK has already stated it would take on the full debt.


It also notes that its estimate of Scotland’s deficit is based solely on a single year’s GERS figures, despite internationally-respected auditors Deloitte acknowledging last year that GERS was not a guide to the finances of an independent – rather than devolved – Scotland.

(And the fact that the oil price has doubled since those figures came out.)


The bulk of the £10bn figure – £7.5bn – is arrived at by treating the Barnett Formula as an annual cash gift from the Treasury, when in fact it’s simply a mechanism for returning about 95% of Scotland’s average payment into the UK.

There’s lots more in the same vein. But those aren’t the best bits. The best bits are when the report produces figures that would supposedly be lost from English students paying tuition fees to Scottish universities, and from an independent Scotland having to contribute to the EU rebate of the rUK.


Our very alertest readers will probably have spotted at this point that the core premise of the report is that the UK is going to remain in the EU.

Do you want to tell them or will we?

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  1. 27 02 17 13:58

    A trivial omission | Referendum 2018 |

264 to “A trivial omission”

  1. Croompenstein says:

    He knows exactly what he is doing – Prof Jill Stephenson 🙂

  2. bobajock says:

    Its getting hard, particularly when they fire up Word on their ageing PC, and doing a search replace for EU … changed to UK.

    For EU single market, to UK single market.

    They obviously missed one.

  3. Ian McCubbin says:

    Well done for comprehensive coverage on this. One time only ahead of you and pónted out in a tweet to them they forgot to include income for an independent Scotland.
    Also as a country at present we have no debt.
    My CA had a member Graeme Finnie give us a code of media to help us write to newspapers and respond online.
    So the projectfear2 is now well in operation.
    Thanks again for taking this one apart.

  4. Ian Brotherhood says:


  5. Betty Boop says:

    Och, whit’s £10bn? Mere bagatelle to buy your country back. Could do what UK does and just print it on an IOU?

    And whit’s another £150m from the loss of thae English students? Oooh, forgot they’ll no be EU citizens..

    All of it total rubbish! Whit shower o’ Scotland hating folk would produce such disingenuous “reports”?

    Oh, aye, remember now.

  6. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Ah, nothing like some refreshing scent of bovine excrement on a Monday morning.

    That report is truly hilarious and in any other universe (other than the one your average unhinged Unionist occupies) would be immediately recognised as a work of near genius level satire.

    Not in this one, obviously, where the media will pounce on it with utter glee and ignore the huge levels of total and utterly inexcusable errors only reporting the ‘key points’ as though unimpeachable fact.

    Project ‘This’ll work, wont’ it?’ is clearly in full swing, and to be blunt the vast majority of Scottish residents heard it all a couple of years ago and most folk do have slightly longer memory spans than that. What’s that thing about ‘fool me twice’ again?

  7. Capella says:

    £10b sounds cheap in the first year. I’m OK with that.

    Pity their reputation is in shreds before they even get famous. Or maybe they’re just one of the “dark money” entities which willspring up all over the place i.e. in London, the Great Wen, over the next year. It’s a brass plate lottery.

    Well eviscerated.

  8. Hdot says:

    Why are they only releasing it now when the report says March 2016 on the front? No wonder the EU bits are all wrong.

  9. galamcennalath says:

    “its calculations are based on an independent Scotland inheriting £125bn of UK debt”

    When people talk about inheriting debt they never bring up the assets we have paid our share of. This includes military hardware and a vast amount of prime real estate as overseas embassies etc..

    Some estimates I’ve seen put the asset value at almost as much as the debt.

    IMO iScotland will walk away from both debt and assets.

  10. JLT says:

    The reports also admit that its calculations are based on an independent Scotland inheriting £125bn of UK debt – the history of nations leaving the UK is that all debt remains with the UK, and the UK has already stated it would take on the full debt.

    I suppose on a further note on this, is that since Sterling (according to Osborne and many others from the ‘No’ camp of 2014) that an indy-Scotland would not only ineligible to have any control over Sterling, but Sterling belongs to the British people, and to them alone. Personally …so be it!

    As mentioned many times on this site, this raises further questions, these being:
    – Is the territorial rights of Antarctica, or the Falklands also denied to Scotland?
    – What about embassies or the military hardware? Do we have no rights to them either?

    If this is the case, then why would Scotland take a share of the debt if not allowed a share of the assets?

    Personally, they can keep it all. If I were an indy-Scotland, I wouldn’t take a thing off the UK State. Walk away clean, for I can only see trouble ahead in the future when it comes to Antarctica and the Falklands. South America may have a big say over what happens there. If this is the case, then Scotland would be better off just walking away from it all. Not only might it be cheaper …but it will most certainly be 100% hassle-free.

  11. Macart says:

    OFFS! 😀 LOL

    The shark has been jumped and at this point they’re sailing over the beach, the carpark and headed inland.

    Brilliant Rev.

  12. Robert Graham says:

    EH i guess this eh report for the want of a better word ( andrex ) comes to mind has to be No one reading material for the Ratings Agency’s who gave a favourable view of a independent Scotland , the same agencies who got the jitters when trying to rate team GB .
    same pish different day move on nothing to see .

  13. People Carrier says:

    Good to see you back Ian.

    Now, what will the media do with this then?

  14. Sandy says:

    ‘Hardcore shrieky Loyalist nutter collective Scotland In Union’. I hear they speak very highly of you too 😉

  15. Molly says:

    Genuine question?
    I know the Scottish Govt have only a tiny control over the ‘ levers’ but if they have introduced a ‘Scottish tax system’ and obviously hope to introduce different welfare rules, shouldn’t the treasury or wherever the source is, have to ask the Scottish Govt for their figures rather than figures like GERS ” produced for Scotland as part of the UK”?

  16. Westie says:

    Well just pay that out of Scotland’s share of the UK gold reserve which would be around £13b.

  17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Why are they only releasing it now when the report says March 2016 on the front?”

    Ooh, good spot. They’re tweeting and posting on Facebook about it today for some reason, but the original website announcement is indeed from last year. Have amended.

  18. Thomas Valentine says:

    As I understood it and several individuals I know experienced it, tuition fees are only available to those “resident” within a country. So a German coming to live in Scotland establishes residency and receives the same benefits as any other resident.
    But if a family in England sends their teenage son to university in Edinburgh he would not count as a resident since his permanent residence is in England with his family. His own education authority would not be paying his fees.
    It seems very straight forward, the only way these lies continue is because no contradictory voice is ever heard.

  19. Golfnut says:

    Based on GERS, must be accurate then eh. Sorry canny stop laughing.

  20. DerekM says:

    Jeez what a load of guff next it will be famine and pestilence and a curse on our first born if we vote for indy.

    To be honest i am surprised they have not gone biblical yet.

  21. Robert Louis says:

    At a guess these unionists know the report is bunkum, but that is not the point. You see, regardless of how much utter demonstrable nonsense it contains, it is provided for one reason alone – for use by the puppet unionist media.

    Tomorrow, we will have BBC misreporting Scotland with headlines such as ‘A leading think tank says Scotland is very poor…etc..etc.’, and the London owned and controlled ‘news’papers will gleefully have similar headlines, such as ‘Major think tank warns of deficit shortfall in indy Scotland’, or in the case of the daily hate mail, more likely ‘Sturgeon kicked in teeth by damming think tank analysis’, and so on.

    That is what this report is for. The fact it contains utter nonsense (such as actually assuming England Wales and N.Ireland are staying in the EU) is quite literally neither here nor there.

    It is laughable in its inherent stupidity, but its mere existence, is further proof of the truly woeful state the mainstream media is in.

    As for the orange lodge ‘Scotland in union’, I am not in the least bit surprised. They probably didn’t even notice the glaring mistakes.

  22. Flower of Scotland says:

    We can ridicule this but news like Sky news was saying the same last night on the “papers” half hour.

    Even the reporter said that he had been looking into Scotland’s finances and said “Scotland couldn’t possibly support itself”! I was so outraged by these lies that I’ve vowed to NEVER watch the “papers” ever again.

    My daughter in California was saying that there is never any Scottish news now. It’s all gone very quiet!

    Subtly shutting down Scotland’s case for Independence.

  23. Ken500 says:

    Students from the rest of the UK receive a subsidised education in Scotland
    £9000 a year doesn’t cover the total costs of many courses. They will have to pay the full amount like foreign students. Either way there will be more money or less students to subsidise Scottish budget will benefit.

    Scotland raises £54Billion (without Oil revenues) £515Billion is raised in the UK. Take £54Billion from £515Billion = £461Billion. Divide by 11 (pop) = £42Billion. Scotland raises £12Billion more pro rata.

    Scotland gets back. £25Billion Block Grant. £16Bilion (UK) pensions/benefits. £3.5Billion Defence. Scotland pays £3.5Billion loan repayments on funds Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. = £48Billion Capital payment ?

    The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion more.

    Scotland could cut Trident £1Billion. Minimum pricing save £1Billion. £3.5Billion loan prepayment. £3Billion? tax evasion. Lost Oil revenues/high taxes = £4Billion? = £12.5Billion. Scotland could borrow £7Billion to invest in the economy. Scotland could earn more from renewables than Oil.

    Scotland is the only part of the UK that has to pay it’s way. Scotland should not pay off any debt. It has lost a £300Billion Oil fund because of Westminster mismanagement. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

    NI (2million) raises £28Billion gets another £14Billion (50%) = £42Billion. Norwegian level of funding.

    Brexit will ruin the economy. There has already been a massive drop in foreign students.

  24. Chitterinlicht says:

    Goodness that is funny.

  25. Capella says:

    O/T Irene Clennell fund now at c £30,000, that’s over £1,000 an hour this morning. Brilliant result. So many caring people put the UK Home Office to shame for their inhumanity. They should be prosecuted for breach of human rights.

  26. Legerwood says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    27 February, 2017 at 12:52 pm

    “””Ooh, good spot. People are talking about it today for some reason, but the website announcement is indeed from last year. Have amended.”””

    Maybe it is part of an orchestrated ‘themed’ week. The Telegraph on line edition Business section says ‘ Footsie rising but pound falling on fears of a Scottish Referendum’

    So today, and perhaps all week, we will be getting stories about how awful the economic future will be for an independent Scotland.

    Wonder what other stuff they are going to dust off and recycle?

  27. Alba Jock says:

    Scotland in Union!!

    Their portrayal of an Independent Scotland looks like the aftermath of a dodgy missile going wayward. What planet are they on.

    Accountants not, scaremongers YES! Been there and got that tee-shirt. They will have to come up with better than that to scare us.

    They will be constant, resolute and frankly depressing.

    Bring it on you fools!

    Stand Up Scotland.

  28. Macart says:


    Spookily the thought had occurred.

    According to the Times(?) last week, a cabinet meeting devoted to the thorny problem of UK break up was held.

    Thepnr posted a link to an article last thread which focussed on that meeting and several other similar themed articles besides.

    The UK cabinet is on a war footing. At last week’s meeting almost the whole 90 minutes was taken up with a lengthy discussion about how to save the Union.

    Each minister was told to find ways to make the case against Scottish independence in their own policy area. “Everyone around the table wants the Union to work and stay together,” No 10 said.’

    I’m guessing the ‘war footing’ wasn’t an exagerration. Everyone on speed dial, including the lamentable SIU, will be getting a tug from those ministers.

    So far, they’re doing a bang up job of their brief. 😀

  29. Breeks says:

    Don’t forget folks, this shite isn’t written for your benefit or mine, nor indeed the Times or Telegraph who might very well print it.

    Look at the Revs page For Sadiq Khan, and scroll down to the video “the face of No”.

    The incoherent angry No voter churns out one cliche and stereotype after another, as he rambles through his repertoire of hate and stupidity, and simply won’t engage in constructive discussion. That’s who this Scotland in Union garbage is aiming for, people who are easily led and agitated to hate because they don’t have the wits to know the truth from horseshit.

    No self respecting journalist would touch this source of information with a barge pole, but it isn’t self respecting news journalism we’re up against, it is rabid UK propaganda.

  30. galamcennalath says:

    Legerwood says:

    stories about how awful the economic future will be for an independent Scotland.

    And that will continue up until the vote.

    Much of the IndyRef2 campaign will be contest between which economic future will be better/worse, Indy versus Brexit UK.

    A case will have to be made for the potential for success of Indy, however over the next year we are going to begin to see what Brexit means economically in practice and no matter how hard WM tries, that is going to be there for everyone to see.

  31. Les Wilson says:

    Robert Louis says:

    “As for the orange lodge ‘Scotland in union’, I am not in the least bit surprised. They probably didn’t even notice the glaring mistakes”

    Or the obvious answer, they could not understand it either!, would they ever?

  32. David Caledonia says:

    I had a workmate who i worked with over 20 years ago, he is dead now, but he comes into my mind at certain times, you see he had a saying that he used quite a lot, he used to say about certain people, you know he would say, if he had brains he’d be dangerouus, well all these unionist muppets would be dangerous if they had brains, but its ok, i have a good sense of humour and i must admit, some of the stuff they come out with would even make the monkeys in the zoo smile, they don’t seem to realise that you can’t just tell lies anymore, Take me for example, i have not bought a nndayewspaper for years, i used to buy the two main newspapers in scotland, and that other piece of litter on a sunday, but i gave them all up as their politics and lies where just insulting my intelligence, they are still insulting my intelligence with their lies on social media, but i am far to long in the tooth to accept their fairy stories

  33. Sinky says:

    Unfortunately this is the kind of nonsense that gets credibility as we do not have MSM or TV journalists that will challenge the £15 billion GERS figures in respect of independence.

    On Sky Press Review last night Telegraph columnist Julia Hartley-Brewer claimed that North Sea Oil would be a drain on our finances for the next 20 years.. that is a net debt.

    By way of contrast Norway’s government with twice the North Sea oil and gas production expects to earn £13 billion in 2017.

    Source: The Ministry of Finance – the National Budget 2017

    Norway’s tax revenues from petroleum activities were about NOK 51 billion in 2016 The net cash flow from direct ownership in fields through the SFDI system was NOK 56 billion.

    The government’s total net cash flow in 2016, including the dividend from Statoil and various fees, was NOK 124,5 billion, or about 13 % of total government revenues in the National Budget. By comparison, the net government cash flow from petroleum activities was in 2015 NOK 218 billion. The net government cash flow is expected to be around NOK 138 billion in 2017.

  34. CameronB Brodie says:

    Even if establishing a modern, socially democratic state did cost £10bn in the first year, I reckon that would be pretty good value.

    Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken;[2] funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.[1

  35. HandandShrimp says:

    Is it too much to hope that Scotland in Subservience get to head up Project Fear 3?

    Reactionary right wing Tories and the assorted weird and sad military fetishists that infested Andy Skinner’s last stab at this on Facebook would be a gift-horse we should not look in the mouth of.

  36. Sinky says:

    Norway’s budget for 2017 published last week and as you have missed coverage on this in our myopic press and TV, here is a link

  37. Les Wilson says:

    For Indy2, I think our sovereign rights need to be openly established. Then they will know we can tell them to GTF, if they do not resolve matters in our favour,then they will know we have that option in law.

    We, the people, need our legals to step up to the case and show beyond doubt we are sovereign no matter how Westminster tries to make us feel otherwise.

  38. Thrawn says:

    You go strong on the fact that the UK government would take the full debt of UK…using the “cast-iron” guarantee given by treasury in the run-up to the indy ref.

    Of course the reason that guarantee was given was that the mere thought of a significant portion of that debt being taken on by an independant scotland was so terrifying to the bond markets that they threatened to impose a “risk” premium on UK debt as a whole.

    Hardly a ringing endorsement on how the financial sector gauges the economic prospects of an independent scotland.

    As for GERS not being 100% predictive for the reality of an independent Scotland’s fiscal position…of course that is true. Scotland could raise taxes or cut spending but if it more or less follows the tax/spending consensus of the the last 30 years (and depite the SNP claims of thier “radical” nature thier actual record in power speaks to a small c conservative nature) then GERS will be broadly accurate in that like the UK in general it will face a significant defecit but with a smaller tax base and zero credit history

  39. Dr Jim says:

    Shhh! Don’t say anything against them or Jill Stephenson will come round and shoot you

    She’s tooled up y’know

  40. Les Wilson says:

    Macart says:

    “Each minister was told to find ways to make the case against Scottish independence in their own policy area. “Everyone around the table wants the Union to work and stay together,” No 10 said.”

    They are not going to find anything that we cannot already knock down with real facts. They are very wrong if they think we are as gullible as we were prior.

    On that subject though we need to compile our definitive reasons just why the ” Union” does not work for us, on all levels.

  41. Capella says:

    On “dark arts” John McDonnell warns about a “soft coup” against Corbyn’s leadership orchestrated by Mandelson, Blair and co. with support of Murdoch and his Times journalist James Lyons.

    Strangely consistent with Jonathan Pie’s parody news from Copeland by-election:

    These “dark actors” are having an exceptionally busy year so far!

  42. Croompenstein says:


    You must have missed this one..

  43. c rober says:

    10 billion , but a tenth of national gdp , so a gdp to debt ratio of 10 percent – and the UK it is 90 percent.

    What also needs to be taken in context is that Scotlands deficit is derived , controlled , created by Westminster that holds the fiscal levers of importance – thus proving if SCOTLAND is such a basket case , the deficit so high , then whose watch was it on again…. well that would be those with the levers.

    Of course the Deloitte admission , must also be combined with the banking markets – where Scotland post indy has been confirmed at AAA.

    Then on top we have the ability to govern our own currency , well if we opt for EFTA , which means devaluation , printing , and removing the BAD private central bank model , choosing instead a sovereign one.

    Unusually as the yoons talk doon , talk superior, in the belief that Scotland doesnt have the will , the power , the wealth to be indy – well I do , and I wont risk my own money on a gamble.

    The single most valuable asset has never been breached in discussion anywhere , not pro or anti , in that the creation of a Scots pound as a currency means investment and fiscal levers to ensure its success. Instead it is parodied or portrayed as impossible , but if pegged between the difference of EURO and Pound , then it makes it a very , very valuable one on the markets and in the peoples pockets.

    However I may also add that should there be a complete and utter rejection again to indy – then I will be leaving , for the EU , Scotland has nothing left going for it within the UK other than being the big oily piggy bank for failure once again.

    Those of us that can afford to leave , post indy , will do so – its the same reasons for a NO vote , wealth protection , putting the self in self determination.

  44. NaijaScots4indy says:

    Capella says:
    27 February, 2017 at 1:07 pm
    O/T Irene Clennell fund now at c £30,000, that’s over £1,000 an hour this morning. Brilliant result. So many caring people put the UK Home Office to shame for their inhumanity. They should be prosecuted for breach of human rights.

    This sort of thing is just the beginning of the chaos that is going to occur next month. I’m Scottish man married to a Nigerian woman , living in Ireland at the moment because of the spousal visa income rules. She’s a fundemental rights barrister and we had no option but to leave our home in Lagos. Her immigration status here is based on the fact that I am a Scottish citizen of the European Union. She does not yet have an EU family residence card. We look aghast , powerless, at what is happening , with the conviction that one day we shall return to Scotland in order to raise our family. Independence and decency is in all likelihood the only way we will make it home.

    Educated Nigerians were sceptical of why Scotland wanted independence when the first referendum was lost, but Brexit has opened the people’s eyes to the exact nature of the “British” state and quite frankly the “British” people. Scotland has many friends and much support all over the world. It’s your choice whether or not you wish to access it, or forever taint our nations name by following in the footsteps of the racist , fascistic, cretons who are the majority in the south of the island of Great Britain. Scottish people are being judged by the company they keep.

    We are counting on you to do the right thing next time. We don’t have a say in the matter. We are counting on you.

  45. Arbroath1320 says:

    Oh look GERS raises its ugly head again …*YAWN*

    Now as I am not capable of figuring out what 10 -1 equals then anything I say about GERS must be taken with a minimum of 10 truck loads of salt. 😀

    As far as my single brain cell understands things the £10-£15 Billion, or whatever, is a result of Scotland paying “its share” of UK debt plus, I believe, all our “commitments” to numerous Westminster building programmes darn surf.

    Provided my brain cell is right in its assumptions here then it is clear to me that, not withstanding ALL debt belongs to WM up to the point of independence (as our lovely former Chancellor said in 2014), the alleged debt we have would in effect “disappear” from GERS and Scotland would start its newly regained independence with no debt.

    Never mind though letting them prattle on about stuff without having the slightest clue about reality keeps them amused I suppose.

    Apologies for errors in my assumptions, I’ll get ma coat now.

  46. Dr Jim says:

    They’ll do the lying thing to scare the folks again but I feel this time they’re more than worried about that alone so i’m thinking they’re likely to go more medieval terror on our Asses this time

    Daily grind of BBC and newspaper desolation economic shock horror headlines full of threats and isolation from the world tactics followed up by completely unknown and unheard of EU experts and emeritus professors from the University of Gzorninsplat with eyebrows furled meeting in the middle so they must be clever telling us in absolute terms about all of our imminant deaths if we go with the mad Sturgeon racist plan of “Division”

    Da Da Da Daahh!

    Wee bit of music there to go with that

  47. Arbroath1320 says:

    Apologies for O/T here.

    I put a link to a fundraiser last night on a previous thread to raise money to bring Irene back from Singapore. I just checked the fundraiser out. The original target was to raise £10,000 which was passed round about midnight last night. They have raised the target to £20,000. The total as of now stands at … £31,320.

    Well done everyone who dipped into their pockets.

    We CAN show Mayhem how REAL CARING people treat others.

  48. Dan Huil says:

    It’s just britnats repeating Project Fear Mk1. It’s all they have. People in Scotland are slowly but surely seeing Project Fear Mk2 for what it is: desperate lies.

  49. John Walsh says:

    One word “Trident”
    They have no where else to park the obscene vessels. Although Scotland wants rid of Trident and all nuclear weapons. We could charge a hefty sum for temporary parking!10 years or until England builds new infrastructure Coalport or the likes. And good luck getting any of it passed planning in England. So a long term lease agreement for Thier bombs. Wonder if the SNP have costed this.
    Would be an interesting distraction for the Yoons to ponder.
    Now this is where the threats start big time. MOD will bring out every dirty trick in the book this time Trident, is a Cash Cow for both UK and American to LOSE billions of dollars for other ops etc.

  50. Robert Graham says:

    oh f/k he is back , no prizes for spotting the spreader of pish , wee hint starts with a “T” , usually reserved for trash for thats what this one spouts.

  51. Thrawn says:

    @ c rober

    100% correct..the best way for Scotland to make a success of independence is to have an independent floating currency. Can’t wait to see that as official SNP policy given its popularity with the public

  52. Everybody loves a trier, Thrawn @2.00pm.
    Same old tired project fear nonsense touting the propaganda nonsense that GERS is an accurate reflection of Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland, when it is clearly not, while ignoring the very essence and fundamental argument for Scottish Self Determination.
    We shall not be conservative with a small ‘C’ as you patronisingly put it.
    “As for GERS not being 100% predictive for the reality of an independent Scotland’s fiscal position…of course that is true. Scotland could raise taxes or cut spending but if it more or less follows the tax/spending consensus of the the last 30 years (and depite the SNP claims of thier “radical” nature thier actual record in power speaks to a small c conservative nature) then GERS will be broadly accurate in that like the UK in general it will face a significant defecit but with a smaller tax base and zero credit history.”
    We shall not be following the ‘tax and spend consensus of the last 30 years’.
    No illegal wars, no Trident, no enrich the wealthy, starve the poor.
    We’ll take back what’s ours, which simply equates to perhaps 8.5 % of the UK assets, which ain’t hay.
    GERS is an Iain Laing propaganda tool, designed to lie to Scots about their financial position, that’s all.
    The oil is not running out, whisky at £4 billion per annum is the UK’s biggest expert, and so on.
    I’m fed up slapping you ‘too wee too poor too stupid’ liars down.
    If we are that much of a Cuckoo’s Nest case, why are they holding a war cabinet to hold on to this failing northern colony?
    We are too big, too rich, too clever for England to lose.
    Very few people believe the pish that you continue to churn out, and when Indyref 2 is launched, there will be chapter and verse evidence available at the flick of a switch to expose your tired old Project Fear lies and threats.
    I take it that you’ll be fleeing South as a refugee when we vote YES?
    I feckin’ hope so.

  53. Auld Rock says:

    Anybody notice just how quiet SLAB’s, PR Dept. at Pacific Quay has been re-markedly silent over their VERY WEE BUN FIGHT in Perth over the week end???

    Auld Rock

  54. Dan Huil says:

    @Jack Collatin 2:42pm

    Great post. Sadly we can expect more of the same old rancid Project Fear from britnats – it’s all they have.

  55. Arbroath1320 says:

    I cannae wait for the weekend. I believe it is the turn of the BLUE Tories to have a wee get together in Glasgow. Apparently the witch from Hell, Mayhem, will be in attendance at some point to tell the grateful and benevolent followers of the part time leetle tankette commander how great a job she is doing at uniting her broken xenophobic union.

    Popcorn and Irn Bru have been ordered for the weekend. 😉

    The only unanswered question that I can see is who will end up with the most “SNP BAAAD” quotes by the end of the weekend. Will it be the RED Tories or will the BLUE Tories have taken the lead? 😀

  56. galamcennalath says:

    GERS, I’ll be honest and admit I just can’t get my head round GERS figures.

    Table 3.1: Total Expenditure: Scotland 2015-16
    £ million % of total expenditure
    General public services

    Public and common services 1,395
    International services 839
    Public sector debt interest 2,802
    Defence 3,030
    Public order and safety 2,834
    Enterprise and economic development. 1,042

    Scotland’s share of defence ~£3b, Public sector debt interest ~£2.8b, I have a grasp. These would be less for iScotland.

    Public order and safety ~£2.8b, what’s that? Police Scotland have an annual budget of £1.1b. Is that included? And what is the rest?

    Public and common services ~£1.4b, what’s that?

    And so on. I get the feeling Scotland is being recharged from WM for things which would be quite different, i.e. less, for an iScotland.

    UK has ‘world power attitudes’ with associated spending and Scotland gets recharged as part of the mindset.

  57. Bob MACK says:


    Every other nation that has attained their independence has gone on to better things generally. Poland when freed from Russia has steadily grown, There are many other examples.

    Tell me, what do you think makes Scotland uniquely headed for failure ? Or is it just your wishful thinking?

  58. Joemcg says:

    Breeks-aye the “face of no” video. If ever there’s someone needing a quick jab to the pus it’s that guy. Met a few of his kind at stalls but never on that scale. If any winger wants to get their hackles raised today watch it. Grrrr…

  59. geeo says:

    Quick rewind to Saddiq Khan’s comments…

    Jean McClure asked a very good question on Kezia Dugdale’s Facebook page…
    “Your father, Jeff Dugdale supports Scottish Independence – does that in Sadiq Khan’s view, make your dad a racist”?
    Game set and match, take a bow, Jean McClure !!

  60. heedtracker says:

    Debt will be the core of Project Fear 2 though. SLab are seething with it already, how can you survive with such giant debt, they fume.

    All mixed in with truly dreadful tory nonsense like,

  61. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry about this folks. I know it is O/T … sort of but could not resist sharing it. 😀

    At least we all now know why Scotland is paying “its share” of building London’s super sewer. What with all the toilets throughout London getting backed up with all the shitting the unionists are doing it is now clear, even to little ol’ me, why London needs a super sewer … URGENTLY! 😀

  62. Proud Cybernat says:

    They project an apocalyptic nightmare onto our capital city to try and scare us into voting NO. But what this actually does is reveal to us what it is about an Indy2 YES result they REALLY fear:

    They are projecting their own worst nightmare onto us.

  63. Macart says:

    Before policy one is even enacted in an independent Scotland.

    No more:-

    UK allocated defence spend. Upto and including current overseas commitments and Trident renewal

    UK allocated spend on Westminster participation or MPs, or indeed expenses

    UK allocated debt share or deficit (to be negotiated)

    Foreign policy spend (see also under defence)

    UK allocated share of infrastructure projects (see under HS rail, new runways, royal palace and parliament repairs etc).

    Oh, and no more Extra Regio or faddling with taxation based on where Scottish products enter or leave the UK.

    I’m sure there plenty other shared and allocated expenses, but you get the drift.

    Better yet, we get our own set of accounts. Not allocated guesstimates. Not Treasury A4 reports on the validity of an independent Scotland, but our own set of accounts and full access to our own taxes from our own private incomes, products and resource realisation. ALL of them, regardless of where they leave Scotland, will be answerable to a Scottish Treasury and Exchequer.

    Before policy ONE is enacted by an independent Scottish government.

  64. John Jones says:

    I keep hearing this tripe about nowhere else to park Trident,what’s the matter with Devonport? It was good enough for the overhauling of the sub’s that were taken away from Rosyth.Apart from the decaying,polluting wrecks that were left tied up to carry on polluting.
    Political convenience at that time but we can’t have these dangerous things down our end!

  65. Dan Huil says:

    “The pound fell during early Asian trading after reports that Scotland could be about to call a second independence referendum.” MSN Money

    Strange, you’d hae thocht that the pound would gain in strength at the prospect of the supposed economic burden that is Scotland being about to be lifted from poor old England’s shoulders.

  66. Thrawn says:

    @ Jack Collatin

    Well your dream of SNP launching a progressive revolution is somewhat undermined given the SNP at the last budget miserably failed to do so when they had that power for first time…a failure celebrated and defended vigourously by the good rev on this very website who thundered self righteously against the characterisation that Scotland had the highest tax rate in the UK. The reality of SNP government clearly shows they SNP are only progressive in as far as they think it is anti-english and won’t scare off nice middle class scots too much…

    As for Trident…sigh…the yearly cost for new trident up to 2060 for the UK is prognosed to be 2billion = 200million for Scotland which is equivalent to 0.6% of Scotlands 2016/17 Budget. Not really the gamechanger you all dreamed of is it?…

  67. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    They are projecting their own worst nightmare onto us.

    Indeed. A Yes win will be a huge shock for their prestige and standing. It will kick them umpteen rungs down the world ladder.

    Your image. Truth is, it could just as equally have BREXIT across it. That will deliver just as much chaos and destruction as anything. Like the dissolution of their UK, it is something they are bringing down upon themselves. Actions have consequences.

  68. geeo says:

    I see that the resident pet unionist has not learned to comprehend the written word yet.

    It is not the opinion of Stuart Campbell nor the individual views of Yes minded contributors who slay the great GERS fantasy dragon.

    If you actually had an iota of intellect, you will have noticed it is Deloitte, who write this..

    “However, GERS data is produced FOR SCOTLAND as PART OF THE UK”

    “It DOES NOT model scenarios for an independent Scotland in which the Scottish government is enabled make it’s own fiscal choices”

    My emphasis to help Thrawn with the key points and split into 2 simple to understand chunks.

    If he cannot “get it” presented like that, he, as we all know, does not WANT to “get it”.

  69. Arbroath1320 says:

    Oh boy … they are all coming out with their shit today folks.

    If anyone is concerned about the result of such an action taking place then here is what Alex Salmond said in 2014 when the self same shite was spewed forth by unionists.

  70. Golfnut says:

    O/T sort of, but since the unionists seem determined to revisit every tooo wee, tooo poor and tooo stupid brick they can fling at us, I thought I might return to a previous topic, defence.
    I was looking for a particular paper, produced before Indy 14, but couldn’t access it on my old broken phone. many thanks to Nana and xarecen for trying to help.
    I haven’t a clue how to post a Pdf,so will have to make do with the title. It’s comprehensive, its 51 pages and sets out very clearly how the SDF should look.
    Scottish Global Forum, titled ‘Securing the Nation’, Defending an Independent Scotland. By Dr John McDonald and lt Col(ret) Andrew Parrott.

    I hope some of you find it interesting.

  71. Brian MacLeod says:

    It’s time we confessed that we know we are going to suffer.

    All that oil, we’re doomed I tell ye.

    We’ll be broke like Saudi Arabia.

    What’s that you say? They’re not broke? But, but… don’t they have lots of oil too?

    Oh, and we all those other industries and all exporting? But the BBC and Daily Mail never mention them so it can’t be true.

  72. galamcennalath says:

    John Jones says:

    I keep hearing this tripe about nowhere else to park Trident,what’s the matter with Devonport?

    My understanding is it has less to do with the operating of subs, not all of which are Trident, and more to do with the WMD storage facilities. That would seem to be the part which will be expensive to replicate.

  73. crazycat says:

    @ Nana

    Great minds…

  74. Arbroath1320 says:

    On the question of defence peeps the shit is already being spewed on that one … sort of. The only problem with this article is that the author has apparently been talking to the font of all things knowledgeable in Scotland regarding defence namely oor Jackie. 😀

  75. Golfnut says:

    Thanks Nana and Crazycat, thankyou very much.

  76. Dr Jim says:

    Some twit says Scotland has zero credit rating, Yeah like we didn’t keep the UK totally afloat for the last 40 years and even Alistair Darling admitted it, It’s in Hansard btw
    Who needs a credit rating when you have no debt If I was a bank I’d be falling over myself to be the first to secure loans to an Independent Scotland
    I think the conversation goes a bit like “We’d like a loan please” bank manager “What debt do you have” eh None, bank manager got any security “Well we’ve got some oil left but only about 50 years worth” bank manager “Here you are then have lots”

    Really these Loyalist Unionist whinging no hopers have nothing to say we’ve not debunked a hundred times all they’ve got left are baseless assertions and threats

    And the Mail and Express of course

    More deadbeat losers who even know they are but are so thick they can’t stop themselves No surrendering

  77. DerekM says:

    Oh look its Torrance back for some more,i always thought you were lacking in the brain department boy.


  78. ronnie anderson says:

    Efter reading that report am hivin ah Gerry Dorsey long moment Please Release Me its oan ah loop.

    Sat in aw day waitin oan the Bbc licence fee collectors coming as per letter, it is the 27th Feb isn’t it. Nae worries if they could nae get roon tae everybody today. I’ll make it easy for them I’ll be oan they’re doorstep on the 26 th March & rite in Donalda MacKinnons face.

    Dont pay the Bbc licence fee.

    HOOTS tae the Brotherhood of man .

  79. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s your logic. Scotland contributes to the UK Treasury and is reimbursed with a portion of what it contributed. This amount does not cover Scotland’s running costs and the repayments on borrowings made by the government in England. As such, Scots should then be taxed more to fund measures to protect Scotland from a government in England that Scots did not elect and can not influence.

    What planet are you on tube?

  80. Thrawn says:


    All they are saying is the obvious point that as Scotland can’t set its tax rates and spending priorities GERS modelling must reflect those of UK in general and apply them to Scotland.

    However my point is that so far the SNP are not talking about massively raising taxes and/or slashing spending therefore in general the GERS figures are in the ballpark – Scotland like UK will face a budget defecit but without the advantages of larger taxbase and a proven credit history

    Btw…I am not and no sensible unionist I respect is saying that Scotland is too “wee poor and stupit” to be independent. As usual when dealing with SNP fanationalists this is an gross misrepresentation of what are reasonable concerns – concerns that while eventually Scotland could exist easily as an independent state the short and medium term costs of this step, merely to satisfy the grievance hunger and low self esteem of english hating blowhards, are not worth it. BTW these are the exactly same concerns that led me to vote against Brexit so i know some of you agree with them…

  81. Sheryl Hepworth says:

    Simple words… cue for…. ”There goes that song again”!

  82. Socrates MacSporran says:

    This is a wee bit off-topic

    While researching another issue, I came across this report in the Herald, of 15 April, 1957, from the annual conference of the Scottish Council of the Labour Party.

    “The Executive’s report on the economic and constitutional aspects of a Scottish Parliament was strongly criticised by speakers as: “astonishingly ignorant”, “an insult to the minds and hearts of the Scottish people”, “high-handed and shoddy”.

    On behalf of the Executive, Mr John Pollok said: “The Labour movement could no longer sit on the fence.

    “Whether they were in favour of a separate Scottish Parliament or not they were all proud of their Scottish heritage, although they had little time for the outward show of patriotism entailed in the growing of beards or wearing of kilts.

    “As Scottish Socialists, they had more in common with English Socialists than with Scottish Tories and the shipyard workers on the Clyde had much more in common with shipyard workers on Merseyside than with their employers.

    In representations with their MPs they had come to the conclusion that Scottish MPs could not attend a Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh and still play their full part in the British House of Commons, which they believed to be the foremost democratic assembly in the world.

    They did not believe it would be in the interests of the Scottish people to have Scottish MPs ignored in the House of Commons, as in the way of Northern Ireland MPs.”

    The emphasis is mine.

    OK, that discussion was back in the days before devolution, but, it shows, putting Westminster before Holyrood is nothing new to the Labour Party in Scotland. Also, please note, that conference was the annual one of the Scottish Council of the Labour Party – no falsehoods back then about “Scottish Labour” being anything other than a branch office of the UK Labour Party.

    I don’t think the comrades have learned much in the intervening 60-years. Mind you, back then, they did recognise the Tories as their real enemy, and, the body of the kirk did stand-up to the Executive, rather than sitting waiting to have the correct string pulled, as happens today.

  83. crazycat says:

    @ ronnie

    Maybe the licensing enforcers nervous beause of this:

    Probably not; they don’t do shame.

  84. Arbroath1320 says:

    It looks like even the three big credit agencies Fitch, S&P, and Moodies can’t totally agree on the UK’s credit rating Dr. Jim. They range in assessments from:

    S&P … rated UK AA Negative on 27th June 2016
    Fitch rated UK AA Negative on 27th June 2016
    Moodies rated UK Aa1 Negative on 22nd Feb 2013

    I would think anyone from UK talking down Scotland’s possible credit rating ought to think before opening their mouth cause none of the big three credit agencies hold a positive view of how UK is doing and apparently will do in the long term.

  85. Breeks says:

    Just had a conversation with a Unionist who firmly believes Europe is about to collapse, as Marine Le Pen drives a wooden stake through its heart.

    I just laughed at him and said he shouldn’t believe what he reads in the Daily Express.

    But seriously, maybe a few Yessers should be sounding out whether there is anything we can do to help the French see through Marine Le Pen as France’s own Nigel Farage. Maybe the odd wee saltire here and there, just like we’ve become accustomed to seeing the odd Catalan flag at our events.

    Just saying… If we want Europe to come to our aid over Brexit, we should see if that’s a two way street that also helps France see the stupidity of Brexit.

    I really hope Le Pen loses big time, or the Unionists are going to clutch on to the imminent demise of all things Europe as a reason to give Brexit as chance. I hope the average French voter sees that and understands what it could mean.

  86. Clootie says:

    ….and to make it worse we remain too wee and stupid.

    They don’t like us….but by God they are going to keep us. A strange message!!!

  87. clipper says:

    Dr Jim 3.44

    Not sure I understand why a newly independent Scotland would have to go looking for loans from predatory banks, you know like those nice folks at rbs who are again “threatening” to leave if we have the temerity to decide to run our own affairs, and who set up West Register which lured SME’s into accepting loans from them and were then told that the terms had been changed and were then taken over by rbs, asset stripped and destroyed, lives and livelihoods ruined all in the name of “Profit Before People!” which is the neoliberal equivalent of the isis “Alahu Akbar!”

    Don’t you see the dangers of getting extricated with Wall St financial institutions and the like? They will be salivating at the prospect of a new and resource rich country to loot and destroy. We’re going to need economically literate people in government who have the best interests of the country at heart and who can see this kind of thing coming, not just a bunch of educated chimpanzees who think “Oh great, we can get any loan we want.”

  88. Thrawn @ 3.09. pm. Make love elsewhere in Anglo Saxon.
    You are of course an anonymous troll, one of the Yoon nuts; perhaps you are McDougall, or McTernan, or Roden, or Spanner, or Torrance, or a wee specky 16 year old Dim But Nice Tory boy from third year.
    In anonymity. you are nothing, you are an faceless idiot, a broken old record,talking shite .
    No more will I be diplomatic.
    Fuck off.
    Adults talking here.

  89. crazycat says:

    Ahh. Major proof-reading fail there, with no excuses.

    Maybe the licensing enforcers are nervous because….

    (Not important anyway.)

  90. Proud Cybernat says:

    Friday 3rd March, 2017


  91. JGedd says:

    Thrawn is just one of those unionist contributors (polite version) who used to hang out regularly on Bella Caledonia.

    They use the Better Together playbook which is a bit like a Chinese menu, so that instead of wasting their time typing the usual bilge over and over again, they should simply make whatever is that day’s selection and just type No 26, No 42, No 422 etc., plus their own amuse-bouches of personal insults as fillers.

    Would save us all a lot of bother having to deal with the stale and reheated arguments being served up again and again.

  92. Thepnr says:

    Looks fairly certain that Scotland’s economy will be the main thrust of Project Fear 2. Look at the state of this writing from the Spectator.

    But hold on. In fact, Sturgeon’s ‘neverendum’ campaign is already wreaking havoc on her country’s faltering economy. It is already doing significantly worse than the rest of Britain. With the added uncertainty of yet another referendum, it may be wiped out completely.

    Scotland in this authors view will be “wiped out completely” whereas the truth for the 30 years up until 2014 was that Scotland’s accounts showed we paid in more to the UK treasury we spent. A lot more!

    This is a fact that is conveniently forgotten and all the focus is on the last couple of years of GERS figures. Figures which indecently hide the fact that much of the reduction in revenue wasn’t just due to low oil prices which have since recovered significantly. No it wasn’t just that but also the fact that record investment by the oil companies in 2013 and 2014 meant that their liability for tax was reduced.

    Record investment for which we will soon reap the rewards from with a huge increase in production is happening right now. As recently as 2011-12 UK Treasury receipts from Oil & gas were £10.9 billion. So much for a black hole when that money comes back to fill an Independent Scotland’s coffers.

  93. Thrawn says:

    @ Dr Jim

    Even allowing for your nonsensical claim that we will have zero debt upon independence (there will be no negotiation where we won’t take some Uk debt- deal with it) your hypothetical conversation would probably go like this:

    – Hello…can i have loan please
    – How much do earn a year
    – 50000
    – What are your outgoings a year
    – 55000
    – not a great start…whats your credit rating?
    – don’t have one…never had to borrow anything for myself before – ex-wife did it all
    – hmm…ok…I suppose I could lend you some money..
    – that was easy
    – not so fast..there are some conditions
    – sure go ahead
    – well at least for the beginning we’re going to have to put a 10% interest rate on your loan
    – woah…that sounds steep…my ex-wife only pays 3%
    – well she’s got a bigger house and better job and she’s been our customer for 500 years – we don’t know you very well and frankly alot of the people you hang out with now seem very hostile to banks and make us nervous and the only way to calm those nerves is to make it worth our while to lend to you
    – well i cant afford that…is there any other way?
    – yes but your not going to like it
    – It can’t be worse…fire away
    – well we know you make some money from producing homeopathic oils…we’d like you to pay us directly for the next 30 years a proportion of that revenue
    – OMG that is worse…I just divorced my wife to stop her doing exactly the same…what if i want to spend that money on something else…i really wanted to pay for some syrian refugees to come stay with me
    – Sorry…thats the deal…or you’ll have to find the money elsewhere…you could always raid your pension fund or cut down on medicine bills?
    – I guess i don’t have much choice
    – wonderful…now in which currency will you want the loan
    – Scottish pounds please
    – hahaha..good one..a real currency please

  94. Bob MACK says:

    Scotlands economy ? Let’s think about the English economy for a minute.
    National debt over a trillion.
    Loss of Scottish contribution which will affect their borrowing power £ circa £60 billion
    No trade deals in place
    Companies withdrawing to EU (both financial and commercial)
    Insufficient energy to meet requirements
    NHS collapsing
    Lack of workers to harvest farm produce.
    Reduced national herd in several species and produce from farming.
    No fishing grounds worth the name to barter with
    No Scottish oil or gas fields.
    No rosy picture there then.

    How do you think jolly old England will look post referendum

  95. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Crazycat I dont acknowledge they’re titles as Enforcement Officers , theres 6 stairs tae ma front door & they would hit every wan o them oan the way doon if the tried tae bully me.

    If you remember some time ago I came home to a Snake in my toilet, well I’ve found ah Asp in the caravan , it doesn’t as much as bite . but it will surely leave ah dent lol.

  96. Proud Cybernat says:

    For the Thrawn Muppet…

    Care to explain?

  97. Meg merrilees says:

    Breeks @4.12

    I was reading up a bit about the french scenario over the weekend.

    Don’t think it’s as much a cert as the media would have us believe, however, it seems the ‘False news’ argument, twitter and social media are playing a big role this time round. Maybe a few judicious tweets could be sent?

    even the BBC has this to say… about the general position about the use of twitter and social media

  98. Thepnr says:


    Look at the state of this shite that passes for Journalism. Once again Independence supporters are racist scum. Fecking Raging!

  99. Arbroath1320 says:

    Bob MACK says:
    27 February, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Scotlands economy ? Let’s think about the English economy for a minute.
    National debt over a trillion.
    Loss of Scottish contribution which will affect their borrowing power £ circa £60 billion

    Thing is Bob at the present moment the BEST credit rating the UK can get is AA NEGATIVE from the big three credit rating agencies. This is with Scotland IN the UK.

    Now consider what the big three will think of the UK with Scotland OUT the UK. As you so rightly point out:

    No trade deals in place
    Companies withdrawing to EU (both financial and commercial)
    Insufficient energy to meet requirements
    NHS collapsing
    Lack of workers to harvest farm produce.
    Reduced national herd in several species and produce from farming.
    No fishing grounds worth the name to barter with
    No Scottish oil or gas fields.
    No rosy picture there then.

    As everyone knows I’m no economics expert but even I can see post independence the credit rating of the UK will go from AA NEGATIVE only one way … DOWN. It may not reach the B class of ratings but it will definitvely be a lot lower than even the current LOW level of Aa1.

  100. Thrawn says:

    @ jack collatin

    Being insulted(McTernan!!…my god…even i have limits to be compared to that labour idiot) and told to fuck-off for the sole reason of raising opinions you happen not to agree with is hardly a recipe to encourage me to post my name, address and phone number. I doubt it but can hope you see the irony in your post

  101. Dal Riata says:

    Go to their website – The horror! The horror! – click on their Useful Links and it takes you to a sub-section named “Other non-party groups and bloggers”.

    Here – “non-party” – is a prime example of the outcry in recent times of the lies, misinformation and outright falsehood that is being deliberately propagated as ‘the truth’ [Sic].

    Anyway, what and who do we find among this fine group of “non-party”-ness?

    Well, there’s the Chokka blog getting big wows right at the top of the pile…Wait a minute… Isn’t that..? Yup, it is! Full of graphs and everything, so it is! By none other than “non-party”, K***n H***e himself!

    What else is here? Oh look! There’s ‘What Dr. Scott thinks’. You know, by totally unbiased Scott Arthur that spends every day on social media being all “non-party” and stuff…

    And right down at the bottom of the heap – Oh, the irony! – is “Effie Deans writes about Scottish politics”. Again of course, in a totally “non-party” way, you understand.

    Scotland in Union, a dark comedy set in the dying days of the United Kingdom… LOLZ!

  102. K1 says:

    It’s always so startling to realise over and over again that these reports and all mention of the Barnet formula as a ‘subsidy’ that Scotland is given by the generous Westminster parliament to the poor scotch as a gift is never ever corrected by those reporting on ‘what the latest yoonbats are saying in their attempts to undermine Scottish independence’ schtick.

    Do they think no one pays taxes in Scotland? Do they really not know that we get less of our taxes returned to us by Westminster than we actually produce? Do they not realise that the vast majority of our exports are taxed as UK exports therefore those tax receipts end up in the U.K. treasury? That the HQ’s of most retailers have to have their main offices in the country they operate In for the purposes of tax collection, that those are U.K. HQ’s at present.

    Do they think we won’t be setting up our own treasury? Do they ‘believe’ that we are incapable of running our economy and more importantly do they really think we don’t know how valuable our economy really is and do they know that they can shove their Barnet formula right up their collective arses?

    Because quite frankly I couldn’t give a shit what any of these twats ‘think’, ‘believe’ or ‘opine’ on with regard to anything to do with our future economic situation in Scotland.

    Because one thing ah ‘know’ is that we will make a far better job of running our country and distributing our wealth in a more fair and equal way than any of the shower of fucks that have been plundering this country for over 300 years have to date.

    And if anyone thinks having Tories run us for the next 15 tae 20 years ‘isnt’ the one and only reason to get the fuck out of this disgusting Union then they need to go look in the mirror and ask themselves a simple question: is it ‘me’ or ‘us’?

    If the answer is ‘us’ then it is time to act from your conscience…no decent human being regards only their own short term gain as ‘the’ most important criteria in deciding what is best for their nation. No one who is concerned for future generations thinks ‘me first’.

    We will make it work if we all work together toward:

    One Vision: One Scotland.

  103. Proud Cybernat says:

    Keeping the weans safe…

  104. Muscleguy says:

    I’ve just read the below Staggers piece by Stpehen Bush.

    He is right that stopping us calling the new indyref (I’m being good Nicola not calling it IndyRef 2) would be a very bad idea. Even if afterwards Westminster gave everyone in Scotland a live unicorn with a golden egg laying goose on its back I would still exert myself to the utmost in favour of an Indy Scotland.

    Besides, basic economics will tell you that the flooding of the golden egg market with 5million golden eggs a week would drop the amount well below that required to buy unicorn and goose chow. Let alone the state of the environment outside houses of multiple occupancy and the polis dealing with magical animal thefts.

    Bush was going so well until the end when he through out two old canards: that we would have to deal with the spectre of joining the Euro when we can’t and that UK pensions won’t be paid (unlike to my aged mother in far, Independent NZ). Accrued pension rights are accrued pension rights. Unless he is intimating that rUK will be so far down in the economic poo that it will stop paying ANY state pensions which I have to admit is a possibility. Except a Tory govt knows who its best voters are and would beggar everyone else to pay pensions.

  105. crazycat says:

    @ Thepnr

    That article in the Guardian is utter guff. I started reading the comments (including one of yours) but gave up after a couple of pages; she wasn’t getting a lot of support!

    I think I’ve met her; she didn’t seem too bad, so I’m very disappointed by the article. She self-defines as a black radical feminist – I think she may be trying too hard to write what such a person ought to write, rather than actually thinking it through.

    That might explain why the first sentence talks about a false equivalence, only to be followed by an entire article pushing that false equivalence.

  106. Marcia says:

    Adopting the name of Thrawn is a sure sign of the intention of the poster.

  107. Arbroath1320 says:

    On the subject of another referendum.

    When Mayhem refuses US our referendum will she not be contravening these paragraphs from here.

    1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

    2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

    3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

  108. Proud Cybernat says:

    For Clair Heuchan & Sadiq Khan.

    You need to look much closer to home. Scotland knows what racism looks like…

  109. geeo says:

    Now The unionist goonshow called Thrawn (3.59pm) is trying to tell us what Deloitte MEAN by their very clear and unambiguous statement.

    No, you utter diddy, they MEANT EXACTLY what they wrote in the report, it could not be any clearer.

    No further correspondence required with the resident diddy.

    Bye, bye son.

  110. Free Scotland says:

    SensibleDave seems very Thrawn, as usual.

  111. scottieDog says:

    What’s scotland’s current national debt in it’s own currency?

    Also which part of the uk has the lowest spending gap (deficit)

  112. ScottishPsyche says:

    From her blog:

    “Claire is a PhD candidate at the University of Stirling, where she obtained an MLitt in Gender Studies and is presently researching Black women’s use of digital media feminist activism.”

    I think we can see that Claire Heuchan is using provocation for material for her PhD.She started off with a series of inflammatory tweets yesterday and obviously got a sniff of an article out of it. Be prepared to see any responses in her thesis.

    Academia sure ain’t what it used to be…

  113. scottieDog says:

    Yeah I see thrawn uses the tory ‘macro’ economic models – the economy is just like a household
    Oh dear.

  114. Macart says:

    More Londonsplaining.


  115. Rock says:

    “hardcore shrieky Loyalist nutter collective Scotland In Union releasing “new research” on an independent Scotland’s finances”

    Releasing to the unionist media which will give it blanket coverage?

    It is a major problem that such nutter releases reach a wider audience than SNP releases.

  116. stewartb says:


    The constant appearances in the Unionist media of references to ‘black hole’, ‘deficit’, ‘subsidy’ in the context of Scotland’s economy, and now ‘racism’ and divisive nationalism in terms of our society and its value, are an indication of how the political debate around Scottish independence is being ‘framed’.

    This concept of ‘framing’ is one I have only just become aware of in this context. The following extract may be of interest – and concern. Who do you think is currently framing the issues most successfully in terms of public profile?


    “Linguist and rhetoric scholar George Lakoff argues that, in order to persuade a political audience of one side of and argument or another, the facts must be presented through a rhetorical frame. It is argued that, without the frame, the facts of an argument become lost on an audience, making the argument less effective. The rhetoric of politics uses framing to present the facts surrounding an issue in a way that creates the appearance of a problem at hand that requires a solution.”

    “Counter-arguments become less effective in persuading an audience once one side has framed an argument, because it is argued that the opposition then has the additional burden of arguing the frame of the issue in addition to the issue itself.”

    “Because framing has the ability to alter the public’s perception, politicians engage in battles to determine how issues are framed. Hence, the way the issues are framed in the media reflects who is winning the battle. For instance, according to Robert Entman, professor of Communication at George Washington University, in the build-up to the Gulf War the conservatives were successful in making the debate whether to attack sooner or later, with no mention of the possibility of not attacking. Since the media picked up on this and also framed the debate in this fashion, the conservatives won.”

    And finally:

    “From a political perspective, framing has widespread consequences. For example, the concept of framing links with that of agenda-setting: by consistently invoking a particular frame, the framing party may effectively control discussion and perception of the issue.”

  117. heedtracker says:

    Thrawn’s a great Scots word so its interesting btl, but only because its a hopeless anti Scottish name, meaning you tend to scroll past it, Thrawn.

    Try Rock, or sensibledave, numbnuts works too, Thrawn, if you do want to catch the attention.

    Chrome spell check, says Thrawn should spell Thracian, which is interesting I suppose.

  118. Thepnr says:


    Interesting, had never heard of “framing” but it would appear that this is exactly what is being attempted around the issues of the economy and racism.

    Forewarned is forearmed so thanks for that.

  119. scottieDog says:

    Yes framing is something the tories are brilliant at..
    Thatchers framing of government finances being akin to a household is one of the most effective – and most ruinous.

    It is very intuitive especially for people like thrawn yet completely wrong economically. Still people cling to it because they can relate to it personally.

    And then of course there is N for nationalism…

  120. scottieDog says:

    George Lakoff seems to be the authority on political framing…
    A book the tories know well I’m sure..

  121. DerekM says:

    Oh check you out David are we learning little troll.

    LOL Jack he is no John,John is actually way smarter than he will ever be,just gets stuck up his own arse on a regular basis lmao

    David away take your head for a shite it is coming out your mouth.

    You do know after i confronted you the real smart thing would have been to post the next day.

    So where you been mucker grovelling at some tories boots,kissing ass,writing a lot of bollocks i must admit when it comes to writing bollocks only JK and the tub of lard do it better.

  122. Bob MACK says:

    Here’s some framing for Thrawn. The pound is dropping like a stone today. Do you know why ? Because Scotland may have a referendum. This poor wee kept subsidised country is affecting the value of the great and mighty pound. I wonder why that would be eh ?

  123. Thepnr says:

    The’re ranking it up today after the weekend disaster that was the Slabber conference. Now it’s Kevin H****s turn to get in on that act with the usual suspects education, NHS, welfare AND the economy coming under his scrutiny. Plus a wee blast at Nicola Sturgeon for good measure.

    The Daily Record is such a joke newspaper when it gives over column inches to such drivel. I post the link not because I think you should read it but just to preserve for posterity the utter tripe that papers will print from anyone with Unionist credentials.

  124. yesindyref2 says:

    “Daily commenting limit reached” on the Express.

    Well, considering the huge outnumbering of pro-Indy or pro-SNP posters like me, by the mostly rabid (who’d like to see Sturgeon turned into a haggis and eaten by Indy supporters, for example), with a few sensible posters, that has the actual effect of censoring a point of view.

    Oh well, it does take time I can spend on someething else!

  125. Arbroath1320 says:

    Keep the laughter down to a dull roar folks when you read this … please!

    Apparently Dugdale has leadership qualities, no SERIOUSLY she really REALLY does. I know it’s true cause … erm … Johnnie boy told me so! 😀

  126. DerekM says:

    Yoons be on full meltdown they are now ripping up the floorboards since there is no kitchen sink left as they chucked that at us in 2014.

    Right own up who told them we were planning indyref2 lmao

  127. And Ruth Davidson’s the best Labour MP they never had!
    It’s just too silly for words.
    Does McT get paid for this shite?
    Does this Holyrood Mag not mind everyone thinking that their publication is a fecking joke?

  128. Clapper57 says:

    Why Claire Heuchan get involved in this ?

    On 26 May 2015 Claire tweeted :

    “@jk_Rowling is the Queen”

    Ah JK fan then…quelle suprise !

    So now the plot thickens…there was me thinking this was someone who ACTUALLY believed the shit she was writing with NO agenda….guess she ain’t interested in profiling some of JK’s unsavoury friends on Twitter….the fact she does not is in itself ironic considering she is a feminist….

    Suspect that is not a road she wants to go down as not part of unionist agenda…prefers to dwell in promoting negative messages via pathetic political point scoring as endorsed by Labour, ‘The Together We are Stronger’, Unionist Party….where ironically this whole racist debacle has ‘divided’ rather than brought ‘Together’ those they seek to persuade to stay within the union.

    One wonders who will next be the defender of the union and endorsing the SNPBAD message….if one were being really cynical one would think that this was all orchestrated to play out exactly the way it has…

    Anas Sarwar tweet re: “Quite ironic that 2 brown guys are being abused/trolled by mob of angry white men in a racism row”.

    This seems uncannily similar to a what Claire quotes in her article “And so there is a certain irony to white people with progressive politics rubbishing what an Asian man has to say about racism”.

    And there is another irony in that Claire herself finds it unacceptable for white men to rubbish an Asian man but acceptable for her to ‘rubbish’ not only a political party but also a whole country and some of it’s people, whose history she deems unworthy and states “The mythos of Scotland as a friendly, compassionate country”…..yeh Claire let’s not dispute Khan’s statement, take it as factual and also we can just accept your analysis on Indy Scots and SNP as being correct also….pretty much seems to be the Unionist way of doing/seeing things.

    Reading the article it is clearly written by someone whose only objective was to ensure that Khan’s comparison was to be deemed as acceptable and factual…where as the resulting outrage was apparently to her, hypocritical and faux….how convenient…for who ?

    Her article is absolute balderdash and only really proves just how obsessive unionist supporters are in promoting the union whilst conveying the falsehood of obsessive nationalists with contrived and unsubstantiated grievances against the English thus confirming Khan’s message as being truthful.

    Thus by her presenting the support of Scottish independence as being tainted, divisive,somehow uncivilised and unacceptable and then linking a part of Scottish history as a means to substantiate her argument , ultimately she loses. Because she is demonising people via incidents in history as though perpetual and thus still in existence…badly done Claire …….I think she needs to get out more in the big bad world …..because we have been tarnished by more professional Trolls that would put her article to shame in the abuse stakes !

    Oh my giddy aunt….how easy they make it to be cynical.

  129. HandandShrimp says:

    It was very decent of Clare to Blacksplain what Sadiq was saying to us. The irony is that the people that liked it below the line were all those that regularly abuse Scots and Scotland and a fair number of them regular Kipper posters. Mind you she did use their favourite argument that Scots are deranged if they want to leave the lovely UK to join the evil EU.

    It wasn’t a brilliant article but having had a quick look at Clare’s work she is clearly ploughing her own political furrow. It was obviously something knocked together in a few minutes with little research or coherence on the actual speech, Sadiq’s views on nationalism and independence in other countries or whose arguments she was actually fluffing. This probably doesn’t matter to Clare because Scottish independence is not her theme. The same views will be hung on a different coat peg tomorrow.

    I think she might look back in a few years once she has a more established academic career and go “Yeeech, why did I write that like that”. Youth is a wonderful thing etc.,

  130. Thepnr says:


    The funniest quote in that article from McTernan who is not a Tory is this:

    “Under the leadership of Ruth Davidson, perhaps the greatest politician who never joined Scottish New Labour”

    Not a Tory? Yeah right.

  131. stewartb says:

    Thepnr @7.44pm

    I’ll take your advice and avoid this Daily Record article.

    However, Daily Record readers yet to be convinced about independence must be a key target for the campaign to change minds and votes to Yes in the next referendum.

    Let’s imagine a DR reader, broadly progressive in outlook though not politically active, had become more favourably disposed to the Yes side over the weekend – appalled by Kahn’s comments and ‘thoughtful’ after a pro-Indy friend persuaded them to view the Journey to Yes videos. And then they buy their DR and read the ‘expert’ views once again being presented by Mr Hague. Momentum for change (of mind) lost?

    The Unionists are in campaign mode in advance of any announcement of Indyref2. They are not necessarily looking to land a knock-out blow to the Yes side for now, just to prevent any build in support – any momentum – and to convince the public of the ground (even the terminologies) on which all debate must take place.

    As I noted earlier: “… the concept of framing links with that of agenda-setting: by consistently invoking a particular frame, the framing party may effectively control discussion and perception of the issue.”

  132. Arbroath1320 says:

    I have to ask Thepnr does anyone believe he actually reads the shite he writes?

    I seriously doubt it myself.

    For someone who “claims” to be a Labourite, worked with Blair etc praising the part time leetle tankette commander part time buffalo rider it does make me question his sincerity to the Labour party. 😀

    Just as we found wee Jackie Baillie giving talks in the local Tory association, McDougall giving speeches to the Tories it can only be a matter of time until little Johnie follows suit. 😉

    Unless of you already have proof he has done so reader. 😀

  133. DerekM says:

    lol i see John is lining up his next one man destruction of a political party,go yourself John get in the blue tories,i am rooting for you.

    Give me a heads up pal so i can put some cash on you wiping them out 😉

  134. Arbroath1320 says:

    Unless of you already have proof he has done so reader.


    that should be:

    Unless of course you already have proof he has done so reader. 😀

  135. scottieDog says:

    Mike daily good on independence live

  136. galamcennalath says:

    All a matter of perception and standpoint, from the Express …

    Both the Prime Minister and her Scottish separatist foe Nicola Sturgeon will next week make keynote speeches about the future of the United Kingdom.

    … could just as easily been written …

    Both the First Minister and her UK separatist foe Theresa May will next week make keynote speeches about the future of the United Kingdom.

    Why are the Scots always the separatists and the nationalists, and never the other lot of separatists and nationalists?

  137. scottieDog says:

    Soooooo nice to hear an ex NO voter speaking up for independence

  138. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, strangely enough it was something occurred to me this morning. That tuition fees are one less thin the Unionist can use against us “When Scotland is Independent in the EU you’ll have to give the English, Welsh and NI students free tution”.

    Well not any more, they’ll pay whatever the third country rate is, same as US, Canadians, Australians, etc.

  139. Thepnr says:


    You know what really bothers me, it’s that any old Unionist can get themselves into print with their lies in the Unionist media.

    Couple of weeks back in The Time we had Dr Patrick Harkness a Northern Irish academic who is a Director of Scotland In Union spouting his pish about how racist Scotland was.

    The we had nutty Emeritus Prof. Jill Stevenson spouting off in a column in The Scotsman about how anti-English we were and that we were really Nazis. You rarely come across more abusive Unionists than her on twitter.

    Next up we have the economics expert, who is really a pet food salesman and wizard with graphs getting space in the Daily Record to tell us how shite Scotland is being run and that Nicola Sturgeon should concentrate on the day job.

    Do the people running these newspapers think that nobody notices? I think it’s actually a lot worse than that. They don’t care if anyone notices because they can say whatever they like and love nothing better than to rub our noses in it.

    Never mind, we’ll have the last laugh and it won’t be too long either before we do.

  140. Andrew Parrott says:

    Golfnut at 1514, Nana at 1527 and Crazycat at 1527

    Very glad to see “Securing the Nation, Defending an Independent Scotland” is still being looked up.

    Might be that it needs to be updated!

  141. Did the Great Brutish grave robber and establishment lickspittle,Neil Oliver, not try to tarnish his country with the racist card when he tried to link Scotland with the KKK ?

  142. Effijy says:

    Earth to Dim Jim.
    Thrawn says:
    27 February, 2017 at 4:45 pm
    @ Dr Jim
    Even allowing for your nonsensical claim that we will have zero debt upon independence (there will be no negotiation where we won’t take some Uk debt- deal with it) your hypothetical conversation would probably go like this:

    How would you like to give me, your neighbour with a history of assault, rape, murder and general misappropriation of funds, your entire income, and I will
    give you only sum of it back, with the proviso that you can only spent on what we tell you when we tell you.

    Being greedy, I want a bit more than I can con you out of so I’ll borrow money, spend it on me, and you will have to help pay of my loans.

    Oh yes, I will lie to you constantly, treat you like second class shit, and have the deciding vote on anything and everything that we discuss.

    Now do you want to be divisive and break away from all this, or be better together??????

    **** Off!

  143. jfngw says:

    Next Unionist agenda, try to make voters embarrassed to vote Yes by suggesting this makes them racist. They try an obscure the fact that it is actually voting No that is the isolationist choice. It’s like being in a Gilbert & Sullivan Operetta, The Nikado possibly.

  144. DerekM says:

    Oh no i just had a horrible thought what if like say John or David come out for indy,will i have to be nice to them?

    I need a brandy “shudders”

  145. Ghillie says:

    SIU is in full panic mode.

    Smells ugly.

    So sad this wee group of folk are eaten up with their bitterness instead of looking forward to a hopeful future.

  146. Thepnr says:


    Oh no i just had a horrible thought what if like say John or David come out for indy,will i have to be nice to them?

    Yes you will!

    Don’t worry I don’t think your fears will come true. Have another brandy LOL.

  147. RogueCoder says:


    These beauties just came in today 🙂 £2 each, or five for £5. The BBC bias documentary immortalised on disk!

    Subsidised 200-packs coming for Yes groups to distribute in their local areas coming shortly!

  148. Golfnut says:

    @ Andrew Parrott
    Probably the best analysis of Scotland’s defence requirement I have read.
    Recommended reading for those interested not only from a military point of view, but for the job and infrastructure creation that goes with it.

  149. Ghillie says:

    Thepnr @ 8.40 pm

    You are right! (in the correct kind of way)

    Yet look at how resoundingly the mayor of London shot himself and the whole Labour party in the foot while busily sticking said foot in his mouth. Every word he uttered made his sentiments clearer and clearer and his situation worse and worse. Kezia and Mr Corbyn came a close second on making their matters so much worse.

    Not disturbing folk while they are making marvelous mistakes comes to mind = )

    Yes, folk are noticing.

  150. robin says:

    slightly off topic but I just watched Kezia Dugdales ‘apparent’ car crash interview on Sunday Politics with the intention of trying to be open minded.
    She was an absolute disgrace. not only completely out of her depth as a politician but refusing to condemn Khans remarks.
    I’m speechless that Labour have sunk so low and I have lost any remaining respect for this person. I am ashamed she is Scottish and I hope they play this rascist card for all they think its worth as it will totally destroy them which is what this sort of disgusting approach to politics deserves.
    Kezia, may you rot in hell, and that is from someone who doesn’t support you but was willing previously to at least listen……….please resign now if you have a shred of decency in your body. I am stunned at how desperate you sounded in your car crash for that it what it was.

  151. DerekM says:

    @ Thepnr

    lol if they do i promise to lay off,and cheers i think i will 🙂

  152. Phronesis says:

    ‘…economics underpins a technocratic system that marginalises citizens and restricts their ability to engage with economic issues.

    Econocracy is a system where some have access to economic knowledge and authority and others do not…we must return to the wider question of society and politics in order to show how we need more than just better experts: we need a new relationship between experts and society. This entails a new culture of open and inclusive economic dialogue that all citizens can take part in’

    (Earle, Moran & Ward-Perkins, ‘The Econocracy’).

    As the PM heads up to Scotland like a warring Boudica on a wonky chariot pulled by the 4 Horseman of the Apocalypse to do battle with the fanatical separatists she’ll find the field of engagement rather empty.

    Those pesky warring racist bigots, subsidy junkie, kilt wearing, tenement slum dwelling etc etc will be elsewhere thinking and talking democratically not only about economics and economic growth but social and environmental justice, inequality, human rights, a European future for Scotland and won’t require any input from those who really should restrict themselves to WM and their day job of trashing the UK’s economy and standing in the world.

  153. Arbroath1320 says:

    This just in from Faisal Islam.

    Lords just voted down Peter Hain’s attempt to amend the Article 50 Bill to keep UK in Single Market: 299 to 136 – Labour voted with Govt

    Can someone remind again … WHO is the opposition to Mayhem’s xenophobic BLUE Tory party?

    I know there is NO official opposition in the House of Commons and now it seems there is definitely NO official opposition in the House of Lords either!

  154. Robert Peffers says:

    @JLT says: 27 February, 2017 at 12:47 pm:

    ” … If this is the case, then why would Scotland take a share of the debt if not allowed a share of the assets?”

    Oh! That’s an easy one to answer, JLT.

    It’s like the findings of the Supreme Court that Westminster, (a.k.a. The de facto Parliament of the country of England), illegally brought into being.

    The answer is, as always from Westminster, “because we bloody well say so”.

    Just like their unfounded claims that The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”.

    There isn’t a shred of evidence for any of their imperialistic pontifications that all simply boil down to being, “Because we bloody well say so”.

    Even to their claim that when the bipartite Treaty of Union splits up Scotland is a new Country, (sic), and the Kingdom of England will remain as the rUK.

    It can’t for the legal, “Status Quo Ante”, of a legal bipartite agreement is that both partners return to their status as it was before the agreement.

    Just like in the bipartite agreement of a marriage between two people – on divorce both partners return to their single status. It would be utterly stupid if one partner returned to being unmarried while the other partner remained married to them.

    Yet these imperialists claim they will remain as the United Kingdom – a Kingdom of England that in 1707 already had annexed both Wales and Ireland. In fact the preamble to the Treaty of Union refers to these two annexed countries as, “Dominions”.

  155. Thepnr says:


    Are you Alex Salmond or maybe Angus Robertson 🙂

    Just tugging yer tail, I enjoy your posts. They’re different but very good at least I think so.

  156. DerekM says:

    Its all a sideshow anyway LA they are voting about nothing A50 is an EU parliament legislation,if anything they are voting on how to take a kicking from the EU.

    Not knowing of course just where the EU are going to kick and the longer they wait the harder the kick will be.

    But then we all know this was never about the EU it was always keep Scotland at all costs.

  157. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Slightly O/T

    Westminster Govt to cut schools budget for the first time since mid 1990s.

    More Barnett Consequential reductions coming SGs way.

    Nae doot the Red Tories in Westminster will abstain then the Red Tories in Holyrood will cry that SG must put up Scots income tax to mitigate this loss or SNPBaaad.

  158. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dr Jim says: 27 February, 2017 at 2:00 pm:

    ” … She’s tooled up y’know.”

    No! No! Dr Jim.

    It was just an honest mistake.

    Someone had said she, (as she is female), that she had, “Bristols”. Thensomeone else thought the first person had said she had, “Pistols”.

  159. Nana says:

    Anyone planning a holiday should check out the new brochure from Argyll and Bute.

    I’m shaking my head in disbelief

  160. Arbroath1320 says:

    Following my last post re Labour voting with Tories in House of Lords I think I’ll just leave this here. If you replace ONE word it fits Labour down to a “T” … I think. 😉

  161. schrodingers cat says:

    ok stu, i gie up, where the fuck is the link tae yer crowdfund?

  162. casper the nukesub ghost says:

    Aye have yourself a nice little holiday, buy a house which will never be worth anything,see the nukesub sights, forget about jobs, and god knows where your nearest jobless centre is. Still, there’s always a bus to get you to your non existent job/jobless centre. Great, promoting Scottish tourism, it hasto be a huge, massive, stupid joke!

    They really are taking the piss aren’t they, these overpaid, useless gits.

  163. Lenny Hartley says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    27 February, 2017 at 10:34 pm
    ok stu, i gie up, where the fuck is the link tae yer crowdfund?

    Pixie dust.

  164. Arbroath1320 says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    27 February, 2017 at 10:34 pm

    ok stu, i gie up, where the fuck is the link tae yer crowdfund?

    O.K. Schrodinger, as a certain William Wallace is alleged to have said:

    HOLD! … HOLD! … HOLD! …

    You’re a wee bit early I believe. 😀

  165. HandandShrimp says:


    You are 2 hours 26 minutes ahead of the game I think

  166. DerekM says:

    The wee ginger dug sinks his teeth into the nonsense 🙂

  167. harry mcaye says:

    Nana – I honestly thought after this weekend’s farce there was nothing the unionist side could do anymore that would cause my jaw to drop. Nice of Snack Beard to prove me wrong so quickly. That is just incredible.

  168. heedtracker says:

    Ian Katz of the Graun, that gave us UKOK “satire” like

    is currently on his BBC 2 Newsnight show. Its odd to see a newspaper professional tory henchman in the flesh like this, for the first time. His sidekick from the Graun was on earlier, fluffing John Major. We are tory world and there is an inexhaustible supply of tory propagandists.

  169. schrodingers cat says:

    WOS scandel,

    ian brotherhood contemplates joining SNP

    was it summat we said 🙂 ?

  170. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    A short O/T intervention…

    Wingers of all shades will be together at Plantation Quay on Sunday, 26th March for the BBC Bias demo. A chance to put names to faces an’ thah’. See you at the Wings stall…

  171. Robert Peffers says:

    @John Jones says: 27 February, 2017 at 3:06 pm.

    ” … I keep hearing this tripe about nowhere else to park Trident,what’s the matter with Devonport?”

    Seems you don’t get the, “thing”, about this particular argument, John.

    I have mentioned it several times on Wings but here’s another wee explanation.

    You can berth a nuclear submarine anywhere that you can berth a surface ship of roughly the same weight. Berthing depends upon the depth of the keel below the surface.

    So just tying the thing up at a berth is not the problem.

    The thing about a nuclear powered vessel is it needs to have provided at that berth for the special services any nuclear powered vessel needs and these are not hard to provide. The Nuclear powered vessels can, and do, use Portsmouth, for example.

    The problem is NOT with the nuclear power units or their refuelling but with the missiles themselves.

    The Clyde Base has another often not recognised advantage.

    This is that the vessels can sail in and out of base submerged. The whole idea of, “Deterrence”, is that your potential enemies, (targets), do not know were the vessels are and that needs a deep water port.

    There is absolutely nothing to prevent Westminster shifting them to an English, Welsh or N.I. Location and storing the missiles and warheads elsewhere than Scotland.

    They just do not have deep water bases to keep their operational movements secret. Just another Westminster Red Herring.

  172. schrodingers cat says:

    so, its a countdown we’re having?

    methinks this might be a good omen?

    I jest not, i sold my 2nd last wbb on sat fur £3, collectors items now, but we have badges, flags etc, what we dont have is any decent literature

    I hope this crowd fund spurs stu to put pen to paper, god only knows, we need it

  173. Nana says:

    Just imagine the council meeting where they ok’d that brochure cover. I mean the level of ignorance and incompetence is mind blowing.

    Oops ‘blowing’ might not be the best word.

    A beautiful area and these clowns use a missile sub as an advertisement to visit.

  174. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thrawn says: 27 February, 2017 at 3:09 pm:

    And a cry of, “Pish”! Rang out above the crowd.

    You are wasting your time here, Thrawn.

    Even a primary school bairn could totally demolish your arguments.

    Which, BTW: have all been properly demolished here on Wings long before now.

  175. Effijy says:

    My last 5 posts over the last few days have all failed to appear here, other than the one that just said Test?

    No lies, no bad language, or slander?

  176. Effijy says:

    Are MI6 having a laugh?

  177. cearc says:

    Hmm, silly me. I had thought that the nuclear subs are supposed to be for deterrence rather than a welcome.

    Ground zero, a great place to live, invest and visit. Well barring any unfortunate incidents.

  178. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thrawn says: 27 February, 2017 at 3:59 pm:

    Yer wasting your time, Thrawn. Worse you are wasting bandwidth with utter pish.

    Scotland’s average yearly per capita GDP is normally higher than that of every other United Kingdom Country. It is also usually higher than the UK’s yearly per capita GDP.

    Then, as every penny of Oil & Gas revenue is classed by the UK as coming from, “Extra-Regio-territory”, it is thus NOT credited as being Scottish contributed revenue.

    That means Scots, by having a higher per capita GDP, are indeed the per capita highest taxed people in the United Kingdom and that is without including oil & gas revenues.

    This is why it is stupid for such as you to make claims that Scotland would be worse of under independence for with independence not only would we have added to the already higher per capita GDP the oil & Gas Revenues but the vast hidden Scottish exports that are wrongly accounted as being English Exports because the UK Treasury counts Scottish products that leave the UK via English ports & airports as English Exports.

    As usual you are talking mince.

  179. ScottishPsyche says:

    Helensburgh. What can I say? Years ago the town was taken over and colonized by the Navy. The RN used to at least make a pretence of a social role then, sponsoring the summer fair and their presence was obvious. Young families lived in Naval accommodation but not now. The base has become more of a fortress. Accommodation in the town has been poorly maintained and left to rot.

    You are lucky if you see them on their way to the Klondyke that is Faslane. They arrive Sunday night or Monday morning and go home Friday, maybe popping into the Co-op at the station for supplies for the train South. The rest of the time everything is on site so they do not have to mix with except with the natives who duly depend on their scraps for what counts as civilian work around the base.

    Everytime I see the convoy crossing the Erskine Bridge in crosswinds that would stop anyone else or travelling in the early hours on icy roads that haven’t been gritted, I think what an amazing sight, the tourists would love this! And when you go to Glen Fruin and venture that wee bit too close with your camera trying to catch a bit of scenery, you see tooled up ‘security’ virtually eyeballing you.

    But Helensburgh will be great again Fluffy says, here come see our submarines because that is all you are good for – a dump for other people’s WMD.


    BTW what is Vonny Moyes on about defending that student Claire as ‘an academic and award winning writer’? She won an award for a niche blog not a Pulitzer prize!

    Apparently we need to read more shite about ourselves so that we can confront uncomfortable truths and yet again when people object it is deemed abuse. I am so sick of this patronising crap from supposed Yes people who seem to be tying themselves in knots to justify their beliefs.

    I am completely aware of our role in the slave trade and I am not a racist.

  180. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 27 February, 2017 at 4:50 pm:

    Aye! Ronnie, I got one if those letters too. My date with them is the second of next month. I know just how to deal with them if they ever dare put in an appearance and it won’t involve violence.

    I will turn their own style of pseudo-legal threats back upon them. I’m certain they will leave skid marks on the path, and on their underwear, as they make their getaway when I pick up the phone to call the police to remove them.

  181. CameronB Brodie says:

    Either educate yourself about the established world order and the rule-of-law, or please find some other forum to pester. I’m told the internet is quite large.

    Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development

    Our shared principles and commitments

    10. The new Agenda is guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, including full respect for international law. It is grounded in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, international human rights treaties, the Millennium Declaration and the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document. It is informed by other instruments such as the Declaration on the Right to Development.

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

  182. The Labour Party’s mini conference last week concentrated my mind. Empty seats all about a moderate sized auditorium told its own tale. The fact is that the constitutional future is the only political issue of immediate importance but there was no debate about it. That is because, despite a very significant proportion of its support and membership, perhaps even a majority, supporting independence, Labour in Scotland has declared itself unionist. And made certain its suicide in the process. Which poses another question. There is no SNP For The Union group. That would be obviously ridiculous. But any more ridiculous now than Labour For Independence? If the Labour Party refuses to even allow its members to debate independence, the most important issue that faces Scotland, what is the point of members who support that position being in the Labour Party The most sensible course of action of course would be that all those who those support independence recognise that the SNP was formed by the amalgamation of a right wing and a left wing group to provide a national independence movement and that is where they should be. A fairly fractious past has maybe made that a step too far for some (and congratulations to those who can see the bigger picture and have taken that step) but another progressive solution would be the re-formation of the Independent Labour Party

  183. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers 11.40 Jist pissed aff the day Robert wiz hivin ah laugh ,but they stairs ur sore oan the wie doon lol.

    onest osiffer ah never laid ah hawn oan them.

  184. ALERT

    Some people (one of whom came into our Forward Shop Today)are getting application forms for postal votes sent to them by the Tories with an envelope for them to send the application form back to RUTH DAVIDSON

  185. Tam the Bam. says:

    @Scottish Psyche…11-32pm

    Re Faslane accommodation.Churchill Estate looking a bit dilapidated now as is the estate up behind Rhu (forget its name).

  186. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Dave McEwan Hill 11.57pm

    I don’t think Scottish Labour have enough potential counillors to contest in all the constituencies in Scotland.

    They are throwing in the towel in some areas before a vote has been cast.

  187. Robert Peffers says:

    @K1 says: 27 February, 2017 at 5:15 pm:

    ” … It’s always so startling to realise over and over again that these reports and all mention of the Barnet formula as a ‘subsidy’ that Scotland is given by the generous Westminster parliament … “

    It isn’t hard to shoot down all such claims, K1.

    The fact is quite plain but can come like a kick in the head to those who employ such arguments when faced with the very simple truth.

    They claim that it is an, “English”, subsidy to the, “Scots”.

    The truth, of course, is that it is NOT an English taxpayer’s subsidy to the Scots but a United Kingdom payment to the Scots from a UK treasury that collects its revenue from the entire United Kingdom. So we Scots pay into the cash given back by the Barnett Formula.

    Not only that but the treasury figures show that we Scots pay in a great deal more than we have returned to us.

    Now you know why the Westminster Establishment Propaganda Machine has always fostered the notion that England, Britain and the United Kingdom are all mutually changeable and all mean England.

    However, that is not the final nail in the coffin of their idiotic claims for, as the average Scottish Per Capita GDP is normally higher than that of every other individual United Kingdom Country and the average of the United Kingdom as a whole, then in fact we Scots each contribute more, on a per capita basis, than every other part of the UK or indeed of the UK as a whole.

    Ergo we Scots, on a per capita basis, actually subsidise every other UK country and also the UK as a whole. Why else do they fight tooth and nail to prevent us from leaving the union?

    Remember also that oil & gas revenue is accounted as coming from, “Extra-Regio-Territory and NOT from Scotland and that Scottish products that leave the UK from English ports & airports is accounted by the Treasury as being English Exports.

    These are but a few of the scams Westminster uses to fool and confuse the issue.

  188. CameronB Brodie says:

    IMHO, racism is economics in technicolor. Yes Scotland has racists, even on the indy side. Yes, Scotland was involved in the slave-trade but only after union with England, who dominated the global slave trade at the time. This involvement, of course, was structured through laissez-faire capitalism, which meant probably more Scots experienced a life of slavery, as benefited from the act. Anyway, what is slavery if not a state of powerless bondage? Is that not where Scotland is at present?

    Yes, Scotland must deal with it’s history but please lets focus on getting out of our present state of bondage first.

  189. Chick McGregor says:

    @Scot Finlayson
    “Did the Great Brutish grave robber and establishment lickspittle,Neil Oliver, not try to tarnish his country with the racist card when he tried to link Scotland with the KKK ?”

    What some self-loathing Unionists do not realise is that what they espouse, whether it is euphemised as simple ‘cringery’ or not, is in itself albeit unintentionally, a form of racism in itself, IMO.

  190. Thepnr says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill

    I think you could be both right and wrong about Labour For Independence. I was like all those people that we see in the No to Yes Phantom Power videos that are posted here.

    I was Labour through and through and struggling with the idea of voting Yes for Independence. Then I got a letter through the door imploring me to vote for Independence. On the bottom it had all these little logos from the SNP, the Greens and a red thistle on a white background from a group called Labour For Independence”.

    I’d never heard of them but went looking for their website which wasn’t very goo in fact BUT I got contact details and emailed them. Or to be more specific I emailed Allan Grogan who was the man responsible for starting the group.

    He emailed back and I liked what I heard so I joined and only then did I become a supporter of Independence. It worked for me and I’m sure many others, I can’t see why you would be against any group that support Independence. Even Tories for Independence are welcome in my view.

    It’s about Independence, not the SNP. Let’s leave tribalism to the Unionists and focus on winning support from wherever it may come. We’re better than that.

  191. meg merrilees says:

    Dave Mc Ewan Hill

    That needs to be reported to the Electoral register in your area and see if it is an orthodox practice. Sounds a bit unusual to me!!!

    My niece and her boyfriend moved into a flat in Glasgow two years ago. When registering to vote, she made sure that the previous tenant’s postal vote application had been cancelled at the address since they were now living there.

    One year later, she received a postal ballot form in the post – upon checking, she discovered that there was a name re- registered opposite their address for a postal vote which is why it had been sent to them.

    They tore it up, BUT is this a way to cheat the system and was a false postal ballot submitted into the election?

    I don’t trust (t)Ruthless further than I can throw her and given her past involvement with postal votes I’d be tempted to let the police know about this as well.

  192. CameronB Brodie says:

    Once you’ve finished grounding yourself in the principle of universal human rights and the resulting governmental and institutional obligations and responsibilities, you could perhaps think about broadening your perspective. I’ll be here when you are up to speed. 😉

    Cultural nationalism: a review and annotated bibliography

    Cultural Nationalism – Culture And Nationalism: Separate Ideas, From Europe To A Worldview, Bibliography

    Culture in, for and as Sustainable Development

  193. manandboy says:

    Yes, whatever your colours, remember the phrase – Unity in diversity for Independence.

    We won’t all be the same after Independence.
    We don’t all need to be that same before Inde

  194. Clapper57 says:

    Noticed from WOS Twitter that JKR is now following Ms Claire H and she is beyond delighted….as my previous post stated she is a fan of JKR.

    Apparently Ms H has had 3 days of racist trolling…as my previous post stated, this and other interventions seem somewhat orchestrated, where the expectation/outcome would be that some negativity would come her way….and so we once more travel down that familiar road of the perpetrator becoming victim.

    The script is on repeat….are we to believe Ms H is so naive that she thought she could write such a contentious article and receive NO criticism from those she targeted ?

    From what I see the ones who instigated and are perpetuating this offensive rhetoric that Scottish Nationalism is comparative to Racism is Anas , Sadiq and Claire H…..but then some unionists also tried to link us with the extreme right so I guess this is an inkling of how they wish to proceed come Indy 2….Project propaganda….trying to brainwash the gullible people into believing WE are the ENEMY.

    What’s that saying about there always having to be an enemy to get people to comply with an ideology ?

  195. Thepnr says:


    Watched all of this unfold today and couldn’t be more delighted.

    Sadiq Khan and Labour have stirred up a hornets nest in backlash and I am totally delighted hat they are suffering for their stupidity.

    Not long now then it’s payback.

  196. CameronB Brodie says:


    Towards a theory of nationalism: Culture, structure and choice analyses revisited
    This article examines some of the more recent theoretical statements on nationalism. It represents a taxonomy of the main bodies of literature and juxtaposes structural, cultural and rational choice approaches. It argues that all of these approaches present important insights but fail to capture the phenomenon adequately. The essay closes with the observation that anthropological studies provide a more holistic approach to the study of nationalism and introduce valuable insights as well as methodologies.

    “In an anthropological spirit, then, I propose the following definition of the nation: it is an imagined political community – – and imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign. – Benedict Anderson

    Benedict Anderson

  197. crazycat says:

    @ meg merilees

    In 2014 I spent a lot of time explaining to people how to register to vote, so I also spent time reading the rules and talking to the people at the Valuation Board who dealt with the applications.

    Since then, Individual Voter Registration has come in, which may have changed things.

    But back in 2014, it would not have been possible to remove someone else’s name from the roll. You could only remove yourself – which is fair enough; otherwise someone who fell out with their flatmates could disenfranchise them!

    When a person registered at a new address, they were supposed to fill in their previous address on the form – this was the only method of removing their earlier registration. But lots of people don’t do that. So they end up registered twice (or more; we had one man on the roll at three addresses), but not through any intent to deceive. The registrars can’t remove people because they can’t distinguish between multiple bearers of the same name. They do remove residents of demolished buildings.

    So it may be that your niece was misled if she was told she’d cancelled a previous tenant’s voting rights – in which case it was not surprising that the postal vote later arrived. Obtaining a postal vote requires a signature for verification purposes, and it really should require the same signature to cancel – I don’t know if it does. (I’ve just tried to look it up and been told to contact my local registration office, which isn’t terribly helpful!)

    Was the postal vote in a different name from the previous tenant? That would signify something dodgy – though it should also be said that some people don’t know their own addresses and it doesn’t seem to be necessary to prove you live where you say you do! That could be an advantage of IVR, which includes National Insurance number, but would still require a cross-check.

  198. Dr Jim says:

    We don’t want Wind Farms all over our beautiful countryside say the Nimbys in Englandshire, and yet, following a Yes vote in Scotland it seems now that it comes to having Nuclear WMD People Killer Radiation Leaking Trident parked up their Asses they’re practically demanding the stuff, just to show us horrible racism hiding Scots how open and outward looking they are, because they’re better than us

    Well, I say why not have the stuff now if you’re so keen I certainly don’t mind at all that England has expressed a desire to show us they’re the better people
    I’ll make the lads tea when they come to collect the weapons, I’ll even check their oil and water for the return journey and wave them a nice bye bye as they go

    But y’know when it actually does happen I kinda think our buddies in the south just like half my family right now at the very thought of it will be screaming at the tops of their little Nimby voices “Anywhere else but here”

    So Wales you’re next! England will vote democratically and you lose, or win, if you’re English…again

  199. Clapper57 says:


    “Watched all of this unfold today and couldn’t be more delighted”.

    Yes Thepnr, the consensus in respect to her ill judged wittering in ze Guardian are that she knows NOT what she is talking about…even Iain McWhirter slated it stating “The most pig ignorant piece of piss poor commentary the Guardian has run in a long time”.

    I am sure she will, in time, regret her foolish contribution to this nonsense, which was both glaringly ignorant and so obviously biased towards a unionist position….absolutely NO objectivity in her piece…this was a vile attack with the sole intention being to reinforce a hideous and totally politically driven slur.

    Well if you want to make a name for yourself I guess there is a RIGHT way of doing it and a WRONG way…..Hell mend her for choosing the latter.

    ps. One of her tweets has been captured pre 2014 where she stated she was attending a Better Together rally…..all is now so very very clear as to where she was REALLY coming from with her ahem indignant ( not) article….now we know what and who she was REALLY defending.

  200. Meg merrilees says:

    Crazycat – that’s helpful – thanks. Will check details with my niece next time we meet.

  201. Meg merrilees says:

    Just had a look at the exchange rate – pound to dollar is $1.24 which is where it was last November and pound to euro is 1.17.
    I was abroad two weeks ago and it was 1.08 euros to the pound.

    Doesn’t seem too be plunging that low!

  202. crazycat says:

    @ meg merilees

    Assuming the procedure for cancelling a postal vote is the same everywhere, information from a registration office in England is that the following are required:

    1.Your name
    2.Your address
    3.A statement that you wish to cancel you postal voting (or proxy voting) arrangements with immediate effect
    4.Your signature, and
    5.Your date of birth

    That seems reasonable; and means someone else couldn’t do it for you.

    It’s possible to contest a registration that you think might be breaching the rules (eg someone who is not eligible to vote here) – I can’t find the information now, but it was quite a complicated procedure, with the “defendant” given the right to know their registration was being contested, and to demonstrate why they disagreed.

  203. Clapper57 says:


    I can see her becoming the new Martyr to the Unionist cause ….like Torrance, Daisley, McFadyen and other chancers…..driven off Twitter……but not admitting it was via their own bile.

    I could write the script…’s on repeat.

  204. Meg merrilees says:

    John Major’s latest offering on Brexit – rarely did I think I would ever agree with him!!!

    He said: “We cannot move to a radical enterprise economy without moving away from a welfare state.

    “Such a direction of policy, once understood by the public, would never command support. It would make all previous rows over social policy seem a minor distraction.”

  205. Macart says:

    @Clapper57 and Thepnr

    Yes, it was a poor piece by Ms Heuchan and published by the Guardian for the usual reasons and the usual audience. It’s how they frame and explain the entire debate for that audience. Regardless of the young lady’s uni background, it’s still Londonsplaining for a metro audience.

    No amount of empirical proof or refutation will convince that audience otherwise.

    Best to spoof, laugh, maybe a sad shake of the head, then go on our merry way regardless. The Guardian have made big enough eejits of themselves for one weekend I reckon.

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    @Nana / @crazycat
    I just read that defence paper by Dr John MacDonald and Lt-Col(Retd) Andrew Parrott, don’t know how I managed to miss that at the time, I did know of and welcome the launch of Scottish Global Forum. Ah well, silly me. A quick review, personal opinion obviously. First the cons.

    1). Scotland will not be given a cash equivalent of equipment value, nor are we entitled to it. Share of the assets, yes. Before Brexit the rUK might have wanted to do that, but not now, it’s totally cash-strapped. However, it is possible it might stump up as much as £2 billion to keep the integrity of the mix of assets it keeps.

    2). It’s not going to be done with an annual defence budget of £2.5 billion. I’d say it would be pushing it to get it with what was then Scotland’s current share of the UK defence budget – £3.3 billion. Having said that I agree with the report that Scotland could – could – be able to do it all more efficiently and hence cheaper. We’d be starting the structure from scratch and could avoid the costly MOD model, which owes a lot to many decades of embedded history and cumbersome methods. Scotland’s could be streamlined.

    Now the good bits. Well, all of it, basically. Very comprehensive, considers the logistics, overheads, infrastructure and base maintenance, training and civilian employees, and even leasing of equipment (as others do). All of those are points I saw informed Unionists (for want of a better word) criticising in the Scotland’s Future white paper. Even in terms of having six battle groups it meets such criticisms. Had this report been part of the white paper, there would have been less, perhaps no, criticism of lack of detail. SotGov take note!

    Military kit it recommends? Yup. Works for me, I like the choices.

    But this is not a cheap model, it’s the full pukka and even integrated deal. After my own heart, even though I’d accept a cheaper one.

  207. Ghillie says:

    Socrates McSporan @ 28th Feb 2017


  208. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. policy directions.

    The Arc of Neoliberalism

    For over three decades, neoliberalism reshaped the global political economy. Broadly, neoliberalisms tresses the necessity and desirability of transferring economic power and control from governments to private markets. Beginning in the 1970s, this perspective dominated policy-making in the West, and spread globally after the Cold War. Many analysts credited neoliberalism with the affluence and strength of the global economy during the 1990s and 2000s. The Global Financial Crisis of 2008 has shaken neoliberalism?s hold on policy, with many suggesting that its policies were responsible for the collapse (Cohan 2009, Johnson & Kwak 2011, Lewis 2010, Lowenstein 2010, Morgenson & Rosner 2011, O?Toole 2009, Reinhardt & Rogoff 2009, Sorkin 2009, Stiglitz 2010). The crisis and ensuing Great Recession may have shaken neoliberalism?s supremacy, but it remains unchalleneged by serious alternatives and continues to shape post-2008 policy.

    In this review, we analyze the rise and stumble (but not fall) of neoliberalism, with an eye on how its life cycle informs post-2008 economic policy debates. The historical arc of neoliberalism – its birth in the midst of chronic global economic crisis, its massive diffusion after the Soviet Union?s collapse, its entrenchment as a cornerstone of economic policy near the turn of the millennium, and the crisis that has threatened to undo it – tell us a great deal
    about the merits and failures of this specific paradigm and about the potential lifecycle of political-economic dogmas in general. Our narrative provides some clues about how the post-2008 economic drama might be resolved, which parts of the neoliberal project might fruitfully be carried forward or challenged, and why alternatives have been slow to develop.

    Cultural Commodification and Its Consequences in the Neoliberal “Niche”. Globalization – Core-Periphery Hierachies

  209. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. policy directions.

    The Arc of Neoliberalism

    For over three decades, neoliberalism reshaped the global political economy. Broadly, neoliberalisms tresses the necessity and desirability of transferring economic power and control from governments to private markets. Beginning in the 1970s, this perspective dominated policy-making in the West, and spread globally after the Cold War. Many analysts credited neoliberalism with the affluence and strength of the global economy during the 1990s and 2000s. The Global Financial Crisis of 2008 has shaken neoliberalism?s hold on policy, with many suggesting that its policies were responsible for the collapse (Cohan 2009, Johnson & Kwak 2011, Lewis 2010, Lowenstein 2010, Morgenson & Rosner 2011, O?Toole 2009, Reinhardt & Rogoff 2009, Sorkin 2009, Stiglitz 2010). The crisis and ensuing Great Recession may have shaken neoliberalism?s supremacy, but it remains unchalleneged by serious alternatives and continues to shape post-2008 policy.

    In this review, we analyze the rise and stumble (but not fall) of neoliberalism, with an eye on how its life cycle informs post-2008 economic policy debates. The historical arc of neoliberalism – its birth in the midst of chronic global economic crisis, its massive diffusion after the Soviet Union?s collapse, its entrenchment as a cornerstone of economic policy near the turn of the millennium, and the crisis that has threatened to undo it – tell us a great deal
    about the merits and failures of this specific paradigm and about the potential lifecycle of political-economic dogmas in general. Our narrative provides some clues about how the post-2008 economic drama might be resolved, which parts of the neoliberal project might fruitfully be carried forward or challenged, and why alternatives have been slow to develop.

    Cultural Commodification and Its Consequences in the Neoliberal “Niche”. Globalization – Core-Periphery Hierachies

  210. CameronB Brodie says:


  211. yesindyref2 says:

    One interesting thing in that defence paper by the way is this:

    If the large ocean-going patrol vessels have a secondary Mine Countermeasures (MCM) capability, there is a requirement for just two specialist MCM vessels to contribute to NATO standing forces and to carry out other national tasks.

    My first thought was that this was daft, but on second thoughts, it’s quite advanced.

  212. yesindyref2 says:

    @Andrew Parrott
    Just in case you read more of WOS than Nana’s Links (I’m starting to mention them in other forums).

    What Golfnut says, comprehensive all that stuff. I read your background, and can see the influence, and that’s what makes it so comprehensive and realistic. A hard-hearted thing to say by the way is that Fallon and his cuts in terms of defence estate following Hammond and his, is probably doing iScotland a favour in some ways, as otherwise difficult and “divisive” political decisions would have to be made by the incoming ScotGov. Anyways. Yes please, an updated version.

    I had to do a lot of research and calculations / estimations for postings in the Guardian and then Herald, and for splits of UK stuff used new cost, as depreciated values not available – it gave an idea of the splits, adjusting for AC / SSN / SSBN / DD values to increase FF / OPV etc. Similar for air assets. A’ the Blue Bonnets was actually a welcome paper though 50 Hawks for air defence / QRA? Sigh. Still, cheap at £1.7 billion pa. But I wish I’d known about your later paper, don’t know how I missed it.

    Oh, here’s an interesting paper (glossy) for you:

    Steller Systems (modular) GPFF design.

  213. ScottieDog says:

    Folks, regarding the deficit that unionists harp on about. The quick and easy reply is to ask them what Scotland’s national debt is. Yes u can’t have the flow (deficit) without a stock (debt).

  214. Nana says:

    May’s planned corporation tax cut ‘won’t come close’ to protecting economy from Brexit, warns JPMorgan

    Tax changes could cost UK public sector workers 30% of salary

  215. Nana says:

    Sir John Major Slams Theresa May’s ‘Cheap Rhetoric’ In Bruising Brexit Warning

    Wanted: Post-Brexit Trade Lawyers Willing to Work on the Cheap

  216. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    A sunny Tuesdays links methinks,  🙂 Thank You. Kettle’s on!

    Peace Always

  217. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, Yay its sunny here too!

  218. Golfnut says:

    @ yesindyref2
    I mistakenly thought at the time that this was the Defence Advice paper the SG were modelling the SDF on.
    To be honest, I was really disappointed at how weak the inclusion was in ‘ Scotland’s Future ‘ regarding defence.

    I gave this ‘ Defence Paper ‘ to quite a few very sceptical ex military guy’s, all without exception were impressed.

    Defence was a major concern for quite a few people during indyref, possibly why so many want to retain Trident.

  219. Hamish100 says:

    OT ex edwina curries ” bidy in” John Major says he will make a major speech on Scottish Independence/ self determination.

    That’s nice of him. Didn’t know he cared.

  220. Hamish100 says:

    With the guy Dick Walsh independent Leader of one of the worst local authorities in Scotland getting his picture taken with Mundell with a nuclear sub saying welcome to Argyll it really just reinforces the notion that most Councillors with an “Indy” tag are Tories in hiding. I understand Walsh is a staunch Christian? yet supports the closure of care homes and nuclear weapons. Looks like Walsh has Dunoons Tory vote in the bag.

  221. Macart says:

    Ooooo Nana’s links.

    Toast, coffee (double hit) and away we go. 🙂

  222. heedtracker says:

    Graun’s gone big with racist Scotland says Mayor Khan, you’re not a racist but you are racist Scot. Just when you think you cant be creeped out any harder by UKOK hackdom?

    How can we tackle hate crime with four school systems?
    There’s no such thing as ‘British values’ – Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland all teach different things

    Huge photo of wee lassie and her face painted with the Saltire.

  223. heedtracker says:

    How does UKOK Graun find this kind of, “you’re a racist Scot, if you vote YES,” blogger? Do Graun hacks just sift through the web looking for them, is this really what its going to take to stop Scotland running Scotland this time. Yes.

    Claire Heuchan
    There is a certain irony to white people with progressive politics rubbishing what Sadiq Khan has to say about racism

  224. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, it’s very professional.

    I was disappointed in some ways with the white paper defence part, but as the Scottish Government I guess they couldn’t pre-empt negotiations, or reveal too much about their hand, so had to leave it more general – share of assets and future co-operation. Whereas MacDonald and Parrott didn’t have that constraint.

    But that’s just making excuses, in 2012 it was obvious the SNP were basically clueless about defence, and it was dear old Sevvie in the Guardian making a fuss about NATO membership that changed them from going for Partners for Peace in NATO which would just have been plain wrong for Scotland, to going for full membership at that fiercely debated conference. Which ironically earned the SNP a lot of respect in the media for its demonstration of internal democracy. I watched that whole debate on TV.

    They’ve improved since, but there’s such a wealth of expertise in Scotland it makes you wonder why it wasn’t used. Perhaps at that time a lot of people didn’t want to get involved, whereas now should be different.

  225. asklair says:

    Hamish100 says:
    28 February, 2017 at 8:11 am

    “With the guy Dick Walsh independent Leader of one of the worst local authorities”

    “More to follow on this because this is where it gets interesting.”

  226. yesindyref2 says:

    In fairness I should add that I was mostly happy with the white paper, but what I was looking for more was the idea of close co-operation with the rUK on defence – “Smart defence” where perhaps the rUK would continue runnng QRA North at Lossie, and overall Scotland + rUK defence duties shared a lot. The white paper did contain that concept. Brexit changes that very substantially, we’d likely be closer to the EU and indeed, the Nordic countries.

  227. Perhaps Jacksonville, Gateway to the great state of Florida, will follow Dick Walsh’s lead and issue a ‘Welcome to Florida’ brochure featuring an electric chair on the cover?
    The Tories have really morphed into a war mongering evil sect now.
    Whose idea was this abomination?

  228. Nana says:

    Jonathan Rimmer says

    Sadiq Khan’s Scottish Nationalism Comments Are As Frustrating As They Are Offensive

  229. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT But Mr Trump has said the media should name sources – as he said ‘ A source says – name the source ,let it say it to my face’

    I’m with him on that – how often have we read ‘ a source close to the SNP says SNP Bad’

    No names , no one to be held accountable – time to stop the practice.

  230. heedtracker says:

    Guardian says Scots are racists for not letting us run their country for them and,

    FT 4 HOURS AGO by: Paul McClean

    EU fishing
    Boulogne’s fishermen fear post-Brexit ‘war on the water’
    France’s largest fishing port at risk if foreign boats expelled from British seas

    “If I’d known Brexit would happen, I never would have signed,” he says, gesturing towards the British coastline just 50km away. “It could crush us.”

    Early last year Olivier Leprêtre signed a new lease on a €2.7m fishing boat. Then the UK voted to leave the EU — and the trawlerman from Boulogne-sur-Mer on the other side of the Channel is regretting his decision.

    His fears are shared across Boulogne, where fishermen worry that the UK’s withdrawal from the EU could spell the expulsion of foreign boats from British waters and the demise of France’s largest fishing port.

  231. sassenach says:

    Nana’s link at 9.24

    Someone at HQ should proof read output, severe repetition spoils the whole piece!

  232. galamcennalath says:

    @Nana Canary article …

    Although many people think that the leaders of Scottish Labour are just completely clueless, there is a competing theory. Said theory being that they realise they’re finished in Scotland, but they don’t want to pay anyone redundancy money. And as such, they’re tanking the party as fast as they can.

    … superb! 😉

  233. Golfnut says:

    @ yesindyref2

    Yep, agree. Brexit has changed everything. Our sphere of influence was always going to be the Iceland, Nordic, Scotland triangle, and believed that RUK co-operation in that area would diminish over time as they seem to be looking more to the Middle east.
    I for one would welcome an updated Defence Paper, looking at areas the EU members might be involved. Personally I believe that the EU would make sure that Scotland’s SDF received all necessary assistance in being set up.

    Please continue with the tech posts, indyref2, always very informative.

  234. Nana says:


    I knew that would raise a chuckle!

  235. Smallaxe says:

    Socrates MacSporran:

    Happy Birthday,  on your 70th birthday today
    Congratulations Socrates, I send you Peace, Love and my sincere wish that you have many more happy, successful and prosperous years ahead.

    A word from your namesake about W/Minster

    “And so they grow richer and richer, and the more they think of making a fortune the less they think of virtue; for when riches and virtue are placed together in the scales of the balance, the one always rises as the other falls.” 
    ? Socrates

    Peace Always 

  236. Macart says:

    @Nana 9.24

    Read that piece in the Times and read the usual ill informed comments beneath. The readership STILL do not, or will not, understand the situation before them. This isn’t about unlimited choice its about events and mandates which dictate a legal and constitutional response.

    Point of fact, the FM has gone out of her way to reach an accommodation, which to this point has been rebuffed. Again the readership fail to grasp that the FM has the mandate and the power right now to move for independence regardless of referendums, but has chosen to respect the result of both such to date. Not an argument which could be levelled at either Ms May or her predecessor.

    They also fail to grasp that all the FM need do is seek a fresh mandate via a GE or SE to achieve the same result. It is to the FMs credit that the fall back position is a referendum as the democratic choice.

    Should this occur and the result is in favour of independence, then Ms May will have a lot of explaining to do to her electorate. Just for once, it’d be nice if HMG would be honest with their electorate and explain the constitutional situation regarding Scotland. They won’t however. Not only does it not suit their agenda, but they’d have to admit to decades of false narrative and misinformation. They’d have to admit to betraying that partnership many, many times over.

    I suspect that in the event of Scottish independence, a great many folk will be in for a very rude shock.

  237. Nana says:

    I hadn’t read it in the times, no subscription.

    Everything you say is right on the button. I reckon a fair few English folk already know the truth, those are likely to be the ones who voted remain.

    The uninformed and the bigoted are yet to waken up and once they do? have the government sold Boris’s water cannons?

  238. yesindyref2 says:

    Was going to say something got distracted watching the crowdfunder.

    Ah yes, I think the EU would help yes, but so would NATO to some extent. This isn’t quite what I saw a couple of years back, but it gives some idea:

  239. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    Yet again Murdo Fraser disgusts me

    He says, ‘If we start shooting the hostages, it’s your fault for not giving in to our demands’ . What an utterly repulsive way to represent the situation Scotland finds itself in through no fault of our own.

    Mind of a sewer.

  240. Fred says:

    @ Socrates, well done on the 3 score years & 10 arrival kid!

  241. Clapper57 says:

    @ Macart

    “Best to spoof, laugh, maybe a sad shake of the head, then go on our merry way regardless”.

    Macart, you are right. Was it not Michelle Obama who said “When they go low we go high”.

  242. Golfnut says:

    Thanks,night time reading sorted.

  243. Breeks says:

    MacArt at 10:45

    I am more cynical. If the Unionists “frame” the argument that we are being undemocratic by not respecting the democratic result of 2014, they believe they are giving themselves a precedent whereby they need not feel obliged to respect a pro Independence result at the next referendum.

    The arguments you make are perfectly correct, and will prove decisive when push comes to shove, but we should heed the warnings that the Unionists will yet again twist every truth to suit their own prejudices and allow our patient reason and common sense to fall on deaf ears.

    I will back Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, but my preferred strategy is to defuse these entrenched arguments by a Judicial Review of Scotland’s legitimate sovereignty; not to thereby secure Independence itself, but to “zero” the clock so to speak. That Scotland enters a transitional status, neither independent nor joined in Union, but essentially void, pending a multi option referendum put to the people. The only given certainty is the legitimate primacy of Scotland’s sovereignty.

    In strict terms, Independence is the only outcome consistent wth our sovereignty, but just like Brexit, the Unionists can choose a soft Independence, or Independence Lite, where constitutional independence is merely reaffirmed as a paper exercise and the Treaty of Union redrawn accordingly. Unlike Brexit however, where a soft Brexit was never Theresa May’s to offer, a soft Independence very much could be agreed, leaving the UK a consensual Union like a mini EU, where sovereignty is not encroached upon.

    In my personal option, such a plebiscite would instead of delivering a soft Indy to please the Unionists, would in fact deliver a resounding endorsement in favour of Independence and full EU membership, and that is simply going to be incompatible with Brexit.

    That’s how I would play my hand, get me to the Court on time, but I’m not Nicola Sturgeon. But I like the idea of both sides having to present the population of Scotland with their progressive solutions to the temporarily vacant constitution, where there is no known or preconceived ideas stemming from any “status quo”. There is no way backwards to before, only a way forward to be argued, and a way forward from our secure and ratified sovereign status.

  244. Macart says:


    Was it not Michelle Obama who said “When they go low we go high”.

    No idea, but it sounds like damn good advice t’me. 🙂

  245. stewartb says:

    More lessons from George Lakoff on political framing and messaging. Apologies for going O/T but if this stuff is as new to you as it is to me, it will be enlightening. It is based on an analysis of US politics but has clear domestic relevance.

    Source: (18 Feb 2017 etc.)

    “Trump has labeled journalists as ‘enemies’. So, journalists have responded by labelling themselves ‘#NotTheEnemy’. This hashtag is currently trending on Twitter, which is unfortunate. Adopting this slogan is a big mistake that helps Trump.”

    On political framing and messaging, Lakoff offers this illustration:

    “Quick: Don’t think of an elephant!

    Now, what do you see? The bulkiness, the grayness, the trunkiness of an elephant. You can’t block the picture – the frame – from being accessed by your unconscious mind. As a professor in the cognitive and brain sciences, this is the first lesson in framing ……. when we negate a frame, we evoke the frame.”

    “When President Richard Nixon addressed the country during Watergate and used the phrase ‘I am not a crook’, he coupled his image with that of a crook. He established what he was denying by repeating his opponents’ message. This illustrates a key principle of framing: avoid the language of the attacker because it evokes their frame and helps make their case.”

    Why? Because, in order to negate a frame, you have to activate it. Frames, like all other ideas, are constituted by neural circuitry in the brain. Every time a circuit is activated, its synapses get stronger. When you negate a frame, you help the other side.”

    Lakoff’s advice is: “Avoid repeating the charges! Instead, use your own words and values to reframe the conversation. When journalists protest that they are ‘Not The Enemy’, they should remember how well ‘I am not a crook’ worked for Nixon. The important frame here is Truth.”

    Therefore: “… every time Trump issues a mean tweet or utters a shocking statement, millions of people begin to obsess over his words. Reporters make it the top headline. Cable TV panels talk about it for hours. Horrified Democrats and progressives share the stories online, making sure to repeat the nastiest statements in order to refute them. While this response is understandable, it works in favor of Trump.”


    “When you repeat Trump, you help Trump. You do this by spreading his message wide and far.

    Nobody knows this better than Trump. Trump, as a media master, knows how to frame a debate. When he picks a fight, he does so deliberately. He tweets or says outrageous things, knowing they will be repeated millions and millions of times. When the news media and Democrats repeat Trump’s frames, they are strengthening those frames by ensuring that tens of millions of Americans hear them repeated over and over again.”

    Strongly recommend political ‘anoraks’ out there reading more of Lakoff if not already aware of his work.

  246. Macart says:


    Warnings: Heh. I take it as read that they are dishonest to the core. I also have no doubt that they will run a campaign every bit as eyewateringly deceitful and awful as the Brexit debacle last June and project fear prior to that.

    On the court idea? Sounds good on paper. Reasonable request with a not unreasonable premise.

    What compels Westminster government to accede to such a case/request taking place?

  247. Lochside says:

    I don’t do twitter..but I am at a loss to make sense of what ‘Murder’ Fraser’s quote that Nana has linked. Surely quoting’shooting hostages’ in any context is the last dangerous and desperate resort of a drowning charalatan attempting to inflame a constitutional debate?

    The last few days of watching SLAB’s incoherent and inflammatory gibberish added to this latest tory provocation acted out to a deafening silence from the ‘media’, makes me absolute resolute in a determination to rid this country of the political vermin infesting our parliament and town municipal councils. Not by ‘shooting’ anyone…but by voting them out into what ever hellish obscurity they deserve.

  248. geeo says:

    Oor Mr Salmond has a big ol’ dig at BBC bias reporting…gotta just love him..!

    Interestingly, the BBC response is a brilliant example of what Wings has been telling us for years now.
    “BBC Scotland said in a statement: “Our story on the website reports Mr McEwan’s interview very clearly and accurately, including quotes from him explaining that he’s talking about a possible move for the RBS ‘brass plaque’ and not jobs.

    “Some headlines have for the sake of brevity used ‘HQ’ as shorthand for where a company is officially based. The full context is then fully explained in the story.

    “We totally reject Mr Salmond’s claim that our reporting of the interview with Mr McEwan is in any way biased.”

  249. Roughian says:


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