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Avoiding The Worst

Posted on July 03, 2024 by

Survation released their final projection for the election last night. It’s quite a boring image because they had to make it mostly grey to correctly illustrate the margin of Labour’s lead.

Those ranges are substantial, but even their BEST-case scenario for the Tories is below 100 seats. The WORST-case scenario for Labour – 447 seats – still gives them a majority of 244, which would smash the all-time record of 209 set by the Tories exactly 100 years ago. (The best case is a dizzying 384.)

Scotland is probably the hardest area of the UK to call. In most polls there are only a few points between Labour and the SNP, and depending on how the votes are spread and who’s best at getting their support out either could still win the most seats.

That won’t, of course, make the slightest difference to the governance of the UK for the next five years. Even 57 Scottish MPs out of 57, for any party, would be completely meaningless to a government with a majority of over 200.

But it’ll make a big difference to the independence movement. Because if the SNP manages to hold onto to a significant proportion of its seats, we can all wave goodbye to the slightest chance of progress for another decade on top of the one that’s been wasted since Alex Salmond resigned.

Make no mistake – while there are no very good outcomes of this election, the absolute worst of all possible worlds is a vast Labour landslide AND a couple of dozen SNP seats. The SNP will regard that as some level of triumph in very trying circumstances and John Swinney’s position will be guaranteed for the next two years.

That’d be a disaster in itself, because Swinney has completed a full retreat from even Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Yousaf’s half-hearted backing for something resembling a meaningful and practical indy strategy, all the way back to “beg Westminster for a Section 30 and whine a bit when they say no”.

But it would also keep the party half-alive, a shambling legion of rotting gravy-fattened zombies staggering on malevolently towards oblivion, reanimated by UK taxpayer money to dangle carrots in front of the unsaveably gullible while continuing to choke any hopes of rebuilding the Yes movement.

(Pictured: Nicolson, Oswald, McLaughlin.)

(And below, Wishart.)

Without an extinction-level event the SNP will continue to hog all the airspace and bandwidth of constitutional discussion, without ever moving the cause a single step forward. It’ll be Groundhog Day every day (again). They simply must be destroyed, or the independence movement will be.

(It’s very tempting to get involved in another lengthy videogame metaphor here, but I’ll just put the video up and see if you can work it out for yourselves.)

The problem is that we know that this week the best way to achieve the destruction of the SNP is by – in most cases – voting for Scottish Labour, and Scottish Labour have gone out of their way to make it REALLY hard for SNP voters to switch to them.

Anas Sarwar, a man of undetectable intellect, has so little curiosity that even after all these years he still doesn’t have a clue why people voted SNP in the first place and blunders around telling indy supporters that he wants their vote without making even the tiniest token concession to earn it.

(Indeed, by suggesting that he’s willing to forgive them for their sins.)

Presented with an open goal by the unpopularity of the SNP’s trans agenda, he sclaffs it towards the corner flag by announcing that Scottish Labour will support policies even the UK party has ditched, ensuring that neither Yes voters nor women can trust him.

And in tight battleground seats he puts up candidates SO toxic to SNP and indy voters – Scott Arthur, Douglas Alexander, Blair McDougall – that he’d probably have been better off choosing Alistair Darling’s corpse wrapped in a Union Jack and with Margaret Thatcher’s face tattooed on his forehead.

So you don’t have to tell us, readers, how reluctant you are to do what it takes to get rid of the SNP. Many of you have told us you’ll be spoiling your ballots or voting for an independent candidate because, even though you want the SNP smashed, actually biting the bullet and voting for a Unionist is an intolerable ask, that the short-term pain is too high a price for the longer-term gain.

The two biggest arguments we hear are that Scottish Labour’s crowing would be just too unbearable after the last 17 years, and that the obliteration of the SNP would make the media proclaim that support for independence is dead, and both of those things are absolutely true.

But here’s the kicker: they’re going to happen anyway.

If you think Scottish Labour aren’t going to squawk and strut like Cristiano Ronaldo when they’ve just won the biggest landslide in UK history, because they didn’t win quite as convincingly in Scotland, you’re only fooling yourself.

And if you think the SNP merely having their seats cut in half – which is the BEST-case credible scenario for them – and getting a third of the vote will stop the media rejoicing in glee and declaring independence over, then we’d like a couple of pints of whatever poundshop wreck-the-hoose juice you’re drinking.

They won’t even be wrong. Because while support for independence is going nowhere, for the next five years at an absolute minimum it WILL be over as a live political issue, no matter the outcome of the election.

Keir Starmer is going to concede nothing to the SNP, however many MPs they get, because why on Earth would he? The absolute worst that could happen from his point of view is that Scots get disgruntled with Labour and vote SNP again, but he already knows that even 56 SNP MPs achieve absolutely nothing at Westminster so that holds no fears for him.

Indeed, Starmer probably WANTS as many SNP MPs to survive as possible, for exactly the reasons we’ve just explained. He doesn’t need Scottish Labour MPs for his majority and a new insurgent indy force would be an unknown and dangerous quantity, just like Reform has been to the Tories.

But he knows that the SNP are nothing to worry about. He’s like the Hungarian coach looking at Steve Clarke’s team sheet and going “Relax lads, he’s picked McGregor and Adams in a 5-4-1 again. Keeper, you may as well go home now and put your feet up”.

And maybe that’s why Labour have run such a limp noodle of a Scottish campaign under their wet lettuce of a branch manager. Maybe they’re smarter than we think. It actually makes sense for them to sacrifice a decent handful of Scottish seats to stop a more dangerous opponent entering the fray.

So anyone who tells you that we need SNP MPs to keep indy on the political agenda is a clueless moron at best, and an enemy agent at worst. What happens tomorrow simply determines whether we can start rebuilding straight away or whether it gets kicked down the road for yet another two or five years, with all the tragic familiarity of Scotland fans going “Ach well, maybe next tournament we’ll have learned and at least have a proper go”.

We won’t lie to you. In the short term it’s going to hurt, just like getting pumped out by the Mediocre Magyars did. You’re going to feel terrible about it.

But folks, bad times have no mercy for weak hearts. There’s a job that needs doing, and we all know it. If you care about Scottish independence, grit your teeth and gird your loins and get it done.

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0 to “Avoiding The Worst”

  1. ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Missed the bit where Labour folded after 2015.

    Politics is cycles. No point wrecking the bike.

  2. ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Parties are the platform. The party fortune depends on the people in it. But a platform needs to be there first.

    SNP was going nowhere in thr 80s. It didn’t pack up, and Salmond arrived.

    Without SNP platform, would he have arrived?

    All SNP needs is a different leader, it doesn’t need to become extinct any more than it did in the 50s.

    It’s then recognisable party of independence at honme and abroad. You don’t chuck that away. SDP territory.

  3. Anon
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘So anyone who tells you that we need SNP MPs to keep indy on the political agenda is a clueless moron at best, and an enemy agent at worst.”

    An accurate description of James Kelly.

  4. dodecostanza
    Ignored
    says:

    “Because while support for independence is going nowhere, for the next five years at an absolute minimum it WILL be over as a live political issue, no matter the outcome of the election.”

    So you’re not holding out much hope for change at the Holyrood 26 election then?

  5. Neil Mackenzie
    Ignored
    says:

    Anas Sarwar. The election’s tomorrow and I’d completely forgotten about him. Was he on holiday somewhere?

  6. Stravaiger
    Ignored
    says:

    A vote is an endorsement of a candidate and needs to be earned.

    In my constituency there is no Alba candidate and it’s a two horse race between the incumbent SNP and the Tories. Hell will freeze over before the Tories get my vote, so a spoilt postal ballot has been sent.

    I have given up thinking that I’ll live to see independence (I should have a good 20-30 years left in me) so all I can do is help to lay the groundwork for future generations.

    It’s a sad state of affairs that it has come to this.

  7. Robinov Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    The problem for me is that there is no way anyone in Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine is voting for Labour.
    THere is ZERO chance I’m going to vote for the Tories, Reform or that other party of nondescript entities.
    Greens? I work in Oil & Gas. Thats like the Turkey voting for Christmas. There is one independent that is apparently too right wing even for Reform so I’ll give her a miss and then there is the other Independent, David Allen Neill that tried for the Council elections last time out. His campaign material looked like it had been knocked up by a 2nd Year Academy pupil on powerpoint with more font styles than there were policies. He does support Independence but he’s never getting in.
    I will have to spoil my ballot because frankly, there is absolutely nothing else even remotely close to my ideals.
    I guess the question therefore is, should it be #NotMyParliament or #EndTheUnion ?

  8. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    Perfectly put, Rev, not one thing in there that anyone could argue with.

    And the most important thing — destroy the SNP and so that can start rebuilding right away rather than waiting 5 or more years.

    Vote whoever has the best chance of defeating the SNP in your constituency. It doesn’t matter who it is. Nobody cares about your feelings (we all feel sick).

  9. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    An excellent synopsis Rev, we need the SNP to lose as many MPs as possible, come Friday Starmer and Sarwar will be gloating big time, it will be painful to watch, but the SNP have to removed for they are the true roadblock to dissolving this illegal union.

  10. Gav
    Ignored
    says:

    …….. Ugh!

    Fine, probably going to need to take a sick bucket into the booth with me though.

  11. Cuphook
    Ignored
    says:

    I won’t vote Unionist. I also won’t vote SNP.

    I can still see the road to independence with the hand that is dealt, though.

    If Labour gets that big a majority its in trouble. You saw what the woke did to the SNP. Wait until you see what they do to Labour as young, inexperienced candidates unexpectedly win.

    Starmer can vacillate all he wants while he is without power, but in government decisions are required, decisions that are going to annoy his own MPs.

    With Farage in the Commons the right in England will splinter into old school Tories and the aggrieved Reformists. Where will that leave the Scottish right?

    In ’26 Salmond will return to Holyrood and be accompanied by competent Alba politicians. Flynn (probably) will be leading the SNP. With Sturgeon out of the way, there will be a rapprochement between the parties in the face of a Westminster crisis.

    There will be a majority independence vote by ’30.

  12. AnneDon
    Ignored
    says:

    Scott McArthur isn’t just toxic to indy voters. My Labour-voting, No voting s-i-l has been telling me about this obnoxious Tory councillor on Facebook for over a year. Imagine her delight when a leaflet came through the door and she discovered he was her LABOUR candidate. For the first time in her life, she won’t vote Labour on Thursday. And she’ll never vote Green again, for gender critical reasons she explained to the Green canvasser who came to her door!

    My No-voting brother is Alba-curious (he doesn’t care about indy, but he wants his daughter to live in a decent country). He will vote Alba in East Lothian, despite finding George Kerevan to be a thoroughly useless MP when he was in the SNP, because he wants to see what Alex Salmond can do for 2026. And because he hated New Labour and would rather cut out his kidney than vote for Dougie “My Patriotism is better than your Nationalism” Alexander.

    This election has such dismal, careerist candidates in almost every party that people are just playing with their votes. In all my life, I’ve never known such apathy and active dislike for the political class.

  13. Campbell Clansman
    Ignored
    says:

    The Survation projection Stu cites has Labour winning 37 seats in Scotland, to the SNP’s 12.
    With ZERO seats for Alba or ISP.
    The latest Savanta poll (July 2) of Scottish voters shows 44% would vote Yes on Indy.
    In the poll, Alba and ISP are in the 0-1% range when asked about regional MSP voting choices.

  14. Roger
    Ignored
    says:

    Well , I’ve bitten the bullet and voted for Blair McDougall because no matter how much of a ("Tractor" - Ed) he is , he will never betray the Indy movement as much as the alternative SNP candidate in East Renfrewshire.

  15. Johnny
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, I am in agreement with those above saying that a vote needs to be earned.

    I am in a seat with no real choice (that’s palatable to me), in that I would struggle to bring myself to vote for any of the Unionist parties and I don’t want to vote for the SNP or Greens either.

    I can follow your argument, Rev, almost all the way but then I very much struggle with the concept of voting for a UK Government-in-waiting as a protest vote 😀

    For a while, I have thought I was going to be staying at home on polling day, and I think that’s what will transpire despite my fully agreeing that the SNP need an electoral kicking for their failure to deliver what has been promised on multiple occasions.

  16. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m not disagreeing, but consider if you will, the SNP gets pumped to oblivion, but the sullen chorus of defeated SNP apologists blame ALBA and Salmond for doing it to them… where and how does the pro-Independence majority express itself?

    Sadly, I’m finding Alex Salmond a disappointment lately, and that’s hard to say given his commitment and integrity, but I fear he still has faith in the possibility of an SNP & ALBA list seat Supermajority at Holyrood, which then calls a plebiscite election. Rational and logical yes, but the SNP will not entertain it. It’s dead.

    I think that’s dead in the water, but if that is what Salmond is fishing for, it would explain his reluctance to abandon / impeach UK sponsored government, (that’s Holyrood and the Scotland Act to you and me), and throw his lot in with SALVO. Where else can he actually go?

    We need Scotland United as the banner we muster to, but Scotland United behind SALVO and a Constitutional battle to defeat Westminster’s usurpation of Scottish Sovereignty. Faith in a political solution is surely forlorn.

    Future elections in Westminster or Holyrood are obsolete. We know that from 2015. If 95% of the Scottish seats in Westminster can be SNP and NOTHING changes, not a single fkg thing, then the whole system including the SNP is a busted flush. Even when we win, we lose.

    Maybe, repeat maybe, Alex Salmond would be on board with a SALVO shaped spanner in the works, but considers a democratic majority a prerequisite. For myself, it’s less important. A breached Treaty is enough to collapse the Union, with or without a democratic mandate. I still have tremendous faith in the man, but I feel he’s not taking the people with him.

    I would dearly love to know what the man is thinking.

  17. Harry B
    Ignored
    says:

    Swinney was in Alness yesterday and he was booed and heckled. One person asked him if SNP is identifying as an independence party.They have had a torrid time on the doors there.

    He spoke to a journalist after, asking him what had gone wrong, as Easter Ross was a stronghold for SNP. The journalist told he should look at the Alba Highland Manifesto, which came out 4 weeks before SNP then copied ‘They understand the issues here, your party does not.’

  18. Astonished
    Ignored
    says:

    It is always darkest before the dawn.

    More, and more folk are awakening to how much the nuSNP betrayed us. The truth is coming out.

    I am sure Alba have plans for Holyrood 2026, but they will depend on how badly things go for Sturgeon’s nuSNP.

    From the ever shriller bleating from the nuSNP, transcult grifters, I assume it is going very badly indeed.

    Thanks to Sturgeon’s transcult Scots will have to take their new labour medicine, but, in the long run, that will just make us more angry.

    A week is a very long time in politics. And once the nuSNP are gone we will have two years to organize a constituency party for independence and a list party for independence.

    And the next time we will know who the grifters are.

  19. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m in Sarwar’s constituency
    I have an Alba candidate who I will vote for but know little of him

    I think there are some really terrific Alba folk coming through.
    Neil Durie and Catherine McKernan, both deserve to win but it will be a struggle.

    I hope Neale Hanvey retains his seat but I think Kenny McAskill will struggle

    Personally I think Holyrood is the game in town
    I’m also a member of Salvo and hold great hopes for them but I still think we need party politics as well for now

    Alex S is the best politician Scotland has bar none
    If he still hopes for reconciliation with the SNP, who can blame him
    He put his heart and soul into that party.

    If the SNP gets well and truly gubbed, their attitude will have to change
    Flynn et al will not forgive Swinney and his yellow specs.
    What a fucking embarrassment he is

  20. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    Never considered the possibility that Scottish Labour would effectively lay down for the SNP, and for precisely the reasons laid out in this article, to act as blockers, filling the shoes of the independence movement while having zero intention of ever pursing it.

    That is a scary thought. Make the opposition so shite, so crap, people have no ‘choice’ but to vote for the SNP… Not a bad plan really.

    Well we have to show them… show them that no matter what substandard, poundland scrapings from the bottom of the jobby barrel politicians they put up as competition we are still going to vote for them to oust the Sturgeon’s Nonce Party.

    This Labour Landslide means we are effectively excused any consequences of it, as it makes zero difference to anything who we vote for in this election in Scotland.

    So weu can you vote for anyone safe in the knowledge that it is all about smashing the SNP with no consequences if you have to vote tory, labour, anyone… it literally does not matter.

    The only value we can extract from this election is to use it to smash the SNP into smithereens. If we fail to do that then we really have wasted our only opportunity to make this election a positive of any description.

    And we are absolved, we could truly vote for anyone, Pol Pot, Mao, in order to remove the SNP, safe in the knowledge nothing we do in Scotland will matter a fuck anyway.

    We have to destroy the SNP. We have to go for the jugular now or honestly I am not sure there will be another chance.

    Five more years of that tranny green shit… I am not sure I’d be sticking around for that.

    This is it.

  21. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    That should be Nick Durie doh!

  22. Johnny
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Breeks has rather missed the point of the article.

    “They’ll say it was that bad Salmond’s fault”.

    Much like what Rev Stu says above, that’s going to happen anyway.

    The SNP are to get pumped and, like Labour before them, it’s going to be everyone else’s fault but theirs.

    Price this wailing in, because it’s coming whatever you do with your vote. So you may as well vote as you see fit and not based on “but X might say Y!”.

  23. Chris Downie
    Ignored
    says:

    At this stage, I think a Unionist victory in Scotland at the GE – and possibly in Holyrood 2026 as well – is what is needed, to jolt the people out of their slumber, realise Labour are still Red Tories and that the SNP are not going to do a thing about it. I know that will be painful in the short term, but until people wake up to reality, nothing will change.

    It’s also important that we keep reminding people of England’s voting patterns. Labour are winning because they’re not the Tory Party, no other reason, but in the not-too-distant future, the Red Tories will make way for the real McCoy to return to power. England votes Conservative 2/3 of the time and, B-liar excepted, Labour have never won a second consecutive term. I see nothing to suggest England will deviate from its path.

  24. ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks

    You write of collapsing the union without a democratic mandate and then ask if we’re taking the people with us.

    Can you not see that’s nonsense?

    If Scots want independence they’ll vote for the party(ies) of independence. The high mark, thus far, has been 50.1%. An achievement against a powerful state not enough to break the intransigence.

    If the independence support through the independence parties was there, Swinney et Al would call a defacto vote tomorrow.

    What won’t help is voting for unionist parties who will put as many poison pills in as possible until the next political cycle.

  25. ALANM
    Ignored
    says:

    Great analysis Stu. All I’d add is that a new party must emerge from the ashes of the impending SNP defeat if the independence movement is to have any future. “Independence Now” would be a good name so that the leadership never forgets what they’ve been elected to do.

  26. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Starmer has been handed a burning chip pan. I suspect they’ll have their hands full. Then again, they handed a dog turd over to the tories in 2010.

    Can’t stand the thought of the tuba player getting elected. Please no.

  27. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    The election is forecast to be a record low turnout. So for every one in the SNP not turning out there will be the same in labour and the tories. So you are not punishing anyone. You are just maintaining the snp status quo.

    Tactical voting on the other hand during record low turnout becomes especially devastating.

    If the SNP survive tomorrow it will be the fault of the people who did not tactically vote instead of just abstain.

    There will never be a better time to do it as well. This election is already decided so your vote is already wasted and meaningless anyway.

    So why not make a wasted meaningless vote into a non-wasted vote by retooling it into a hammer to smash this abomination of the SNP into the dust.

    It sends a message to those who did this as well. Infiltration isn’t going to stop us. We are just going to reform like a famous liquid robot.

  28. Andrew F
    Ignored
    says:

    Why are so many people dead against voting tory?

    I’m in Australia and don’t have a vote in your elections, so I’m just looking in from the outside.

    I’d say vote for a true independent first (if you have a decent one), but failing that – vote tory.

    (1) How could they possibly be WORSE than Labour or SNP? Really, how could they actually be worse? They can’t.

    (2) That would send a much bigger message than just a spoiled ballot.

    (3) In the impossibly unlikely event that they win they would say exactly the same things as all the others about having a “mandate” and “governing for all” anyway. And nothing would actually be any different.

    Starmer is going to run your country into oblivion, death and misery. Good luck, I really do mean that with all the best wishes.

  29. Milady
    Ignored
    says:

    I would have voted tactically but it’s Blair McDougall ffs. How can I? Fortunately I have ISP here and I can only take comfort in the fact I’ve split the pro indy vote and, with luck, Kirsten Oswald will be getting her jotters in the early hours of Friday morning.

    Re the projected seat numbers, I’d love this MRP poll to be correct (10 for SNP!) but there are way too many folk saying “oh,just suck it up one more time” and declaring they are still voting SNP- aaaarrrgh!

  30. MaryB
    Ignored
    says:

    Today’s SNP election leaflet says ‘kick the Tories out. Elect Alyn Smith’.
    It says ‘there’s only one party on the side of ordinary people. SNP are offering ‘a choice on independence.’ Totally ambiguous. Says it all really.

  31. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks; “the SNP gets pumped to oblivion, but the sullen chorus of defeated SNP apologists blame ALBA and Salmond for doing it to them… where and how does the pro-Independence majority express itself?”

    They’re going to blame others either way, probably Alba and Salmond.

    But who gives a fuck what they think? They’re a bunch of cunts.

    Nobody knows what will emerge from the dust cloud left behind by the SNP implosion. We know what will emerge if the SNP hangs on — fuck all.

    Anger is setting in with this bullshit.

  32. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    Scottish nationalism, assuming the cause has not been totally «sissified», might better engage in ending the life of the decrepit British state not feeding it, albeit reluctantly, with precious votes.
    Ditching/punishing/eradicating the faithless SNP by voting for «alternatives» merely encourages that which ought to be forcefully opposed, the superannuated British state system itself.
    Between the Westminster concept of Parliamentary sovereignty and that of Scottish Popular sovereignty, there is a marked distinction that even a dewy eyed devotee of the established order might spot: rationally compatible they are not.
    This anglocentric charade should be ignored, the fitting rational and authentic nationalist response to its irrelevance to the Scottish nation.
    May 4/07/24 be the day the people of Scotland/Alba cease inhabiting an existential neverland in an alien fantasy universe.

  33. Andrew
    Ignored
    says:

    “Why are so many people dead against voting tory?

    I’m in Australia and don’t have a vote in your elections, so I’m just looking in from the outside.”

    ….the comments section has just completely and utterly jumped the shark. If you don’t know what Scotland has against the Tories, then you need to do a lot of reading.

    Regarding this idea of voting Labour. Nope. I can’t do it. I’d sooner cut my hands off. You’ve outlined all the reasons in your article. Its never even entered my calculus to vote yoon, and this campaign has made it even less likely that I would ever vote for them. I don’t think an independence supporter could still call themselves that while voting for a Unionist party. Remember when we all mocked those NuSNP types who were singing Corbyn’s praises?

  34. Alasdair Roy
    Ignored
    says:

    Refusing to vote tactically for the Conservative Party in a constituency like West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine is just a tad self-indulgent if you truly wish the SNP to be duffed up. There will be other constituencies like this in Scotland.

  35. Michael Laing
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Andrew F at 4.38pm: As you don’t live in Scotland, I suppose you can be forgiven for your ignorance of the political zeitgeist here. The Tories are despised by most Scots. In large part, they are the reason for the demand for Scotland to be independent. Since the advent of Thatcher in 1979, the Tories destroyed Scottish industry, massively increased unemployment, cut welfare benefits, imposed unwanted capitalism and privatisation, abolished council housing, increased taxes on essential goods and services while cutting income tax for the rich, and imposed grossly unjust policies such as the Poll Tax on Scotland, all without a shred of democratic legitimacy. They are hated and will never be forgiven.

  36. 100%Yes
    Ignored
    says:

    Lets be honest Swinny took over the SNP leadership and he could have united the independence movement and Scotland before one vote was cast but instead he has chosen to adopt the former failed SNP policy on independence begging Westminster for a section 30 order and then doing nothing when they say no.

    It has to be said that the SNP have brought on their own downfall. But their downfall wont affect the Independence movement or Scotland becoming independent, if will only enhance it and make it a bigger certainty.

    Lets be honest Scotland is going nowhere under the SNP, so vote for any other party even if you have to hold your nose and vote for a unionist party or even stay at home.

    If anyone on here believes the SNP will delivery you as glalkit as Swinney believe you.

    There isn’t one of these SNP MPs who wouldn’t sell Scotland tomorrow just to keep their seats in a parliament we have no place in being in.

    I hope the message is crystal clear DO NOT VOTE SNP TOMORROW,

    1 STAY AT HOME AND WATCH THE SNP MPS FALL ONE BY ONE
    OR
    2 VOTE FOR A OTHER INDY CANDIDATE
    OR
    3 HOLD YOU NOSE AND VOTE FOR A UNIONIST PARTY WHO IS BEST PLACED AT BEATING THE SNP CANDIDATE

    Tomorrow I hope is a new turning point for our Country and the death of the SNP so lets make the 4th of July our Independence day from the SNP, for good.

  37. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Gosh, “jumping the shark”, how long since I heard that one. Now, a quick mention by some charitable poster re, “nuking the ‘fridge”, and I truly will be, “in with the in crowd”.

  38. Where's Murphy
    Ignored
    says:

    Wendy Chamberlain I guess then. Alba aren’t standing in North East Fife and it’s been Liberal Democrats for the last 5 years anyway. The SNP are needing a hiding, I’m fully ready to ignore the inevitable unionist response.

    It’s the feeble minded SNP loyal gearing up to blame those of us not voting SNP for a lack of indy progress that will annoy me.

    Nothing new of course, the feeble minded SNP loyal have been grating on me for years now.

  39. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Milady 4.40pm and that is exactly the problem Stu has illustrated in his post, unfortunately I have sent in my postal ballot with #EndTheUnion and #NotMyParliament emblazoned on it or I WOULD HAVE DONE AS STU ADVISES,

    VOTE for ANYONE even the tories who has the best chance of being elected and who will defeat the Sturgeon Nonce Party trai tor standing

    I DESPISE the tories and ALL the other unionist scum parties which includes the snp,and ordinarily I couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to vote for them, BUT as Stu says Labour are predicted to win by a landslide so your vote counts for nothing to ELECT them, IF you want your vote TO COUNT it must be to DESTROY the scum zombies who have paritisised YOUR independence party

    If you want your VOTE to reflect the DISGUST and BETRAYAL you feel towards a sick shower of DEVIANTS and PERVERTS who have INFESTED your party and hijacked your dreams of independence and are OPENLY treating your votes with contempt,to get any sense of JUSTICE or recrimination against being USED you need to swallow your pride and integrity and VOTE for ANYONE who will DESTROY the snp gravy slurpers who have betrayed me and YOU

  40. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    As Labour are going to win an overall UK majority, then holding your nose and voting for Conservatives in Scottish certain constituencies to ensure we oust the sitting NuSNP carrot dangling, mandate burning, decade wasting, fake nationalist twat could be justified on the grounds that the Conservatives won’t be forming the next UK government.
    So the safety net is already in place and at least if Scotland elected a majority of Conservatives MPs we could still say Scotland doesn’t get the UK government it voted for! lolz.

  41. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    About the only thing I could ever imagine Mr Swiney uniting would be a jar of Nutella and a banana as a visual aid to a class of our children.
    The very fact that the SNP devolved administration could insult their remaining supporters by reappointing this retread and proven failure as Leader and now First Minister demonstrates the futlility of expecting different results from the same previous, failed actions.

  42. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    I had planned to spoil my ballot. Second thoughts now and thinking that its a fight between Libdem and SNP in my constituency. Ultimately it looks like it will be a vote for the Libdems in the hope it will keep out the SNP candidate. It’s likely to be close and with Gethins winning in 2017 by one vote I’d hate for my ‘spoiled’ vote to be the one that got the SNP back in.

  43. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Michael Laing , I believe Andrew F is a legal practitioner in Australia who is either an expat Scot or his family were, he has been on Wings for years and has openly supported independence, so he is one of the good guys
    In response to your response to Andrew, I agree with your list of grievances listed against the scum tories but I would also contend that the liebour liars mirrored every wrongful action that the tories pursued so one is as bad as the other when it comes to trea Son against Scotland and Scots ,and now the scum snp can be included in the list of Trai Tors

  44. Geoff Anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    It is good, very clever
    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1808541752090935410

  45. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “All SNP needs is a different leader”

    Who, and how?

  46. Doug
    Ignored
    says:

    If the SNP gets around 18 seats Swinney, Foote and the current hierarchy will stay on as the union’s useful idiots.

    Turnout will be the most important statistic. Let’s get it under 50%. Show contempt to both Westminster and the SNP hierarchy.

  47. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “Hell will freeze over before the Tories get my vote”

    “There is ZERO chance I’m going to vote for the Tories, Reform or that other party of nondescript entities”

    “I won’t vote Unionist”

    “I would struggle to bring myself to vote for any of the Unionist parties”

    And this is the point of the article, folks. You can keep your hands clean if it makes you feel better, but all you’ll end up with is a Labour government AND an undamaged SNP continuing to cripple the indy movement. You can’t rely on other people to do your dirty work for you. If you want something to happen, you have to vote for it to happen. It’s your own choice as always, but don’t be on here moaning if they keep their MPs and you didn’t vote to get them out.

  48. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Michael Laing says:
    3 July, 2024 at 5:28 pm

    @ Andrew F at 4.38pm: As you don’t live in Scotland, I suppose you can be forgiven for your ignorance of the political zeitgeist here. The Tories are despised by most Scots. In large part, they are the reason for the demand for Scotland to be independent. Since the advent of Thatcher in 1979, the Tories destroyed Scottish industry, massively increased unemployment, cut welfare benefits, imposed unwanted capitalism and privatisation, abolished council housing, increased taxes on essential goods and services while cutting income tax for the rich, and imposed grossly unjust policies such as the Poll Tax on Scotland, all without a shred of democratic legitimacy. They are hated and will never be forgiven.

    While I can empathise with this but Labour continued these policies when they got into power and made it worse through for example, PFI, using cheap European Labour and handing billons back to Westminster from the Holyrood budget.

    The nuSNP have done as much damage with the same economic policies under the remit in Holyrood and foisted disastrous social policies that is damaging the social fabric of our society.

    It is right to be angry about what has happened in the past but should it influence present day decisions which could have a positive outcome?

  49. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    That moment when you had a pretty much zero consequential impact of dealing with a cancer that is killing you and you chose to do nothing…

    That’s not far off shiting yer kecks and voting No in the 2014 Indyref.

  50. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve said previously I could not vote Starmer to defeat my local SNP candidate. As starmer is I believe tantamount to war.

    I am rescinding that. That is exactly what I will be doing.

    Starmer is going to get a landslide no matter what. So there is no heat on my vote. It is moot.

    So Labour it is.

    Might as well destroy the SNP at the same time. Be stupid not to.

    I’d be saying the exact same about the Tory candidate if it was them best placed to defeat the SNP.

    This, locked in nothing we can do to stop it, labour landslide frees up all our votes to do anything we want with them.

    So let’s use them to utterly destroy these rats. There has never been a more deserved kicking in politics than what is coming to them.

  51. Anne Johnston
    Ignored
    says:

    Tactical voting, Real Politik.
    I’d like to vote Alba . .but that won’t save us from the SNP.
    What a shit state Scotland is in.
    We must rid ourselves of this poisonous and treacherous SNP.

  52. NanSom
    Ignored
    says:

    On my postal voting form I voted Labour (holding my nose) as there is no party in my constituency I’d want to vote for and Labour has the best chance of unseating the SNP. I also wrote ‘ADULT HUMAN FEMALE’ across the top of the form. Having been present at previous counts, if it’s clear who you’re voting for it will be counted, but candidates and party agents present get to see what’s written on forms if there’s more than an X.

  53. KT Lorimer
    Ignored
    says:

    I am convinced – for the first time ever a Tory is going to get my vote.

  54. Tartanpigsy
    Ignored
    says:

    Some mental gymnastics going on here!

  55. Joan Edington
    Ignored
    says:

    The head is definitely with you Rev, but I sadly doubt if I’ll be alive to see independence, whatever the tactics. I still weep for 2014.

  56. Livionian
    Ignored
    says:

    Whilst the SNP need to fall from power, I can’t help but feel that voting Scottish Labour is akin to the strategy of ‘bombing the mosque’ from the film four lions.

    Voting for a minor party, spoiling your vote, staying home, I get. But voting Scottish Labour as an independence supporter I feel is misguided to say the least, and voting for a smaller party or abstaining would have the same affect.

  57. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Voting for continued colonialism – which is the status quo as far as Scotland is concerned – is a vote for fascism.

    In this election only one party – Reform – is labelled fascist, by a fascist political class and msm.

    Scots folk might hope England votes for English liberation:

    https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/07/02/an-unlikely-liberator-of-scotland/

  58. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Tartanpigsy

    Only if you let too much of that large human brain and resultant complex emotions tie you in knots and obscure the thought processes.
    Indy voters need to channel their inner honey badger when dealing with various distracting cretins and focus on achieving their primary objective.
    As displayed in this 3 mins of honey badger ass kicking action.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNPJgmLEfD4

  59. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Michael Laing says:
    3 July, 2024 at 5:28 pm

    @ Andrew F at 4.38pm: As you don’t live in Scotland, I suppose you can be forgiven for your ignorance of the political zeitgeist here. The Tories are despised by most Scots. In large part, they are the reason for the demand for Scotland to be independent. Since the advent of Thatcher in 1979, the Tories destroyed Scottish industry, massively increased unemployment, cut welfare benefits, imposed unwanted capitalism and privatisation, abolished council housing, increased taxes on essential goods and services while cutting income tax for the rich, and imposed grossly unjust policies such as the Poll Tax on Scotland, all without a shred of democratic legitimacy. They are hated and will never be forgiven.

    It makes no sense being stuck in the past, fighting yesterdays wars when there is a chance at least to make a positive change for the future?

  60. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    How come ALBA aren’t doing better?

    Alex Salmond is a better speaker and campaigner than Nigel Farage, so how come Reform are making waves and ALBA is in stealth mode?

    Who’s speaking up for Scotland?

  61. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    ross
    Ignored says:
    3 July, 2024 at 4:00 pm
    Breeks

    You write of collapsing the union without a democratic mandate and then ask if we’re taking the people with us.

    Can you not see that’s nonsense?

    It’s not nonsense if the Treaty of Union is deemed breached in a legal sense, as a point of legal distinction rather than a democratic mandate.

    In fact, if it was to be deemed breached, even unilaterally, as in a divorce, the Treaty would be at an end, and the next priority would be securing International Recognition.

    A democratic mandate would, I suspect, help greatly with securing International Recognition, but even then, I think the Constitutional status in law would be even more persuasive than a popular majority.

    The democratic “deficit” could also be addressed through a ratification plebiscite held at a later date.

    So it’s not nonsense. A popular mandate would be advantageous to have, but it isn’t a prerequisite.

    And in any event, if the Treaty was ended and there was a democratic backlash against it, it would be academic because the Treaty of Union once declared breached could not be resurrected. A dead Treaty stays dead. Restoring “a” Treaty of Union would require a new Treaty to be agreed.

    Screw the corrupt UK “democracy “. They are misusing democracy to trap Scotland and subjugate our Constitutional rights. End the Union by any means possible. Better to ask forgiveness rather than permission.

  62. Hatey McHateface
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Chris Downie says:3 July, 2024 at 3:51 pm

    Labour are winning because they’re not the Tory Party, no other reason

    And in Scotland, Labour are winning because they’re not the SNP.

    But it’s even simpler than that.

    Labour are winning in the UK because they’re not the incumbents.

    It’s going to be one last re-arrangement of the deckchairs under Starmer, one final application of the defibrillator to the corpse of the post-war settlement, before reality has to be faced, some time before 2029.

    Buckle up, it’s going to be a bumpy ride!

  63. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    None of us will vote for a unionist party. The thought of it makes me sick.

    However we can vote Alba, stay at home or vote for an independent. As Stu has said, the next 2 years are going to be horrible.

    It will feel like the day after the indi ref. When we all felt stateless. However not long after that the SNP won nearly every seat at WM. The SNP squandered that. But the point is that independence will live with or without the SNP. We don’t need them anymore. They clearly don’t want us.

    My best guess is that turnout will be about 62%. The SNP will get 13 or 14 seats. Starmer will ridicule Scotland. But he has inherited a UK on it’s knees, and he is an untested PM in a useless party filled with morons.

    It will soon become apparent the UK is dying, and that is our opportunity to rebuild our movement. The election has felt like another country’s vote. We are just bystanders. The same way we will be bystanders for the next 5 years. England will do as it pleases. Scotland is just one of their assets. But the people of Scotland do not belong to them.

    I am just going to shut my eyes for a few years. There is nothing we can do about this. As for the SNP , fuck those bastards.

  64. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “And in any event, if the Treaty was ended and there was a democratic backlash against it, it would be academic because the Treaty of Union once declared breached could not be resurrected.”

    The Treaty of Union never existed to begin with for our ain politicians and nobles could not give away (sovereignty) something that did not belong to them. In Scotland as you know its the people that are sovereign not the monarchy or government of the day.

    AS the illegal treat was being signed in a shop cellar on a corner in Edinburgh, well away from prying eyes, the people in the streets above rioted against it.

    With real politik in mind the 2016 Brexit vote cut clean across Scottish sovereignty and even the then Welsh FM Carwyn Jones was amazed that Scotland’s FM of the day Nicola Sturgeon didn’t act against it by dissolving the illegal union and forging our own membership of the EU (for me EFTA).

  65. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    PacMan

    “It makes no sense being stuck in the past, fighting yesterdays wars when there is a chance at least to make a positive change for the future?”

    Did I miss something? What positive change do you see in our future? It’s an English General election. Same shit – Different colour of arseholes.

  66. ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev,

    Who knows, someone.

    You could ask the same question in the 80s. Didn’t mean we abandoned the party and started again!

    Independence isn’t a live issue but it could be again at some point in the future, after labour become inevitably unpopular (just as the SNP have). There’s no date of when, but it’s possible the SNP get a new leader and are the insurgent opposition again. Easier to do this from a position of being 1st and second across Scotland than an entirely different party surely.

    No the cold hard truth is it’s likely quicker to win independence via the SNP and then a non partisan Yes campaign in a defacto vote, than attempt an entirely new party with no recognition or link to the SNP.

  67. gm
    Ignored
    says:

    Red
    Ignored
    says:
    3 July, 2024 at 8:40 pm

    How come ALBA aren’t doing better?

    Good question Red. Maybe we need an arrest and a conviction after the hatchet done on Salmond post court cases? Clear up, in the public mind, who the good guys and bad girls are? Maybe its lack of TV media coverage? Maybe the punters are now as contemptuous of the political caste as they are of the punters and have switched off?

    What do you think yourself?

  68. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Red @ 8:40 pm

    “Alex Salmond is a better speaker and campaigner than Nigel Farage, so how come Reform are making waves and ALBA is in stealth mode?”

    Farage talks the language of liberation, Salmond daesna.
    Farage is a real nationalist, Salmond isna.

    The issues a real nationalist has to talk about:

    https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf

  69. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I guarantee one thing. About 80% of Scotland will not be getting the champagne out when Starmer wins.

    Even Labour voters in Scotland are luke warm about Starmer. This is England’s 20 year dabble with Labour, and less right wing politics. They will revert to type. But really what’s the difference. Scotland gets shafted by every PM. Even Gordon Brown shafted Scotland.

    The Scottish Labour MPs are just boot licking Uncle Toms.

  70. ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks

    Sorry but it is nonsense. You don’t get international recognition unilaterally claiming a legal breach of a 300 year old treaty.

    1) we’ve had a popular vote in favour of the union since then on a straight question

    2) nobody would understand what the breach is

    3) Scots are a democratic people and will not accept it

    4) international support will not come without a clear popular support. Can’t expect other countries to recognise something we can have our own people support clearly . See catalonia.

    I mean thus respectfully, you’re barking up the wrong tree with this.

  71. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri says:
    3 July, 2024 at 8:55 pm

    PacMan

    “It makes no sense being stuck in the past, fighting yesterdays wars when there is a chance at least to make a positive change for the future?”

    Did I miss something? What positive change do you see in our future? It’s an English General election. Same shit – Different colour of arseholes.

    Reducing the number of nuSNP MP’s reduces the Westminster short money that the nuSNP party receives and thus, allows the nuSNP to field effective campaigns in the future.

    Please tell me what the post 2014 nuSNP has positively done for Scotland?

  72. Gm
    Ignored
    says:

    Andrew
    Ignored
    says:
    3 July, 2024 at 5:16 pm

    “Why are so many people dead against voting tory?

    Agree 100% Andrew. While I understand the argument I won’t be soiling myself by voting unionist. Not in this life or the next. Or the one after that. I’ll vote for an Alba candidate, the only Scottish nationalist on the ballot, McKernan. I would actually prefer it if not a single candidate stood who supported Independence anywhere in Scotland and everyone who believed in the Scottish nation stayed at home. It is a fraud on the punters that’s taking place tomorrow.

  73. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Faced with the choice of #NOTMYPARLIAMENT on the ballot and seeing that smirking chimp Smith scrape home, or holding my nose and voting Tory in order to give him and his biology denying, troughing, devolutionist incompetents the heave-ho… I’m holding my nose.

  74. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    It is very obvious that Farage like Corbyn like Salmond is the one they fear right now.

  75. george wood
    Ignored
    says:

    What on earth have I been reading. So called Independence supporters wanting the destruction of the SNP. A bloody nose in a Westminster election fine but destruction is madness.
    Clearly they are either Unionists or have no understanding of Scottish politics or deluded.

    What will happen if the SNP implodes is that movement will split into factions that will end up hating each other more than they hate the extreme Unionists.

    The strength of the Independence movement was that there was one party whilst the Unionists were fighting other Unionists as much as the SNP. The SNP snuck into government because of that.

    The only way we are going to achieve Independence is to join the SNP and change it back to what it used to be. A small number have managed to knock it off course and we vastly outnumber them.

  76. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    PacMan

    They’ve done nothing. I’m not advocating voting NuSNP.

    I’d be careful voting a yoon tho. There would be absolutely nothing to stop Sir Kid Starver passing a bill that no one from the UK can ever secede & btw, get yer kids to get their boots on. They’re deployed next week.

    Sending a majority of Scottish unionists will be the BS “The Scottish ppl have spoken” they’ve been aching for since 2014.

    Scottish MPs are our representatives there in their eyes. They don’t separate votes on who was just having a protest to give the SNP a bloody nose. We may just backfire.

  77. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    I had said in a previous thread that I would be voting Alba as I’m fairly confident that Labour would defeat the incumbent SNP MP in my constituency.

    That was then, this is now. The only vote that matters is in the poll tomorrow and the best strategy for those who believe in independence is to starve the nuSNP of Westminster short-money that flows to nuSNP party HQ coffers and allows the same self-serving policies of the nuSNP apparatchiks to continue the same old policies that they have pursued over the last 10 years.

    The hope is that the nuSNP being starved of Westminster short-money that they come to their senses and follow traditional SNP policies.

    Yes, in my constituency most likely that Labour will get in and Alba will get a few thousand votes but why take the chance when there is the possibility that a few thousand votes lets the SNP get’s re-elected?

    That is why I’ll be holding my nose and voting Labour tomorrow.

    With the SNP starved of Westminster short-money it will make a different electoral landscape in the forthcoming Holyrood election so what will the independence debate be like in that election?

    For those who disagree with my position, it would be interesting to see their opinions of how the outcome of the UK election tomorrow would effect the forthcoming Holyrood election?

  78. Garrion
    Ignored
    says:

    Another devious outcome is if the fetid, bloated carcass of the SNP gets a non-trivial number of seats, and this is a kicker, Labour can fully justify further neglect and ongoing humping of Scotland to please the Home Counties.

    So a vote for the SNP is actually a vote for the very worst aspects of unfair, unjust colonial rule.

    I dunno who masterminded this plot, but fuck me it’s 4 dimensional chess.

  79. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    George Wood…

    That ship sailed my friend.

    The SNP is the biggest roadblock to Indy and pays lip-service to the cause.

    It exists purely for its own sake and their elected representatives are first and foremost cash cows for the party – they are neither cheerleaders for Indy nor indeed for Scotland.

    The SNP died the day it’s collective ‘leadership’ sought, whether actively or passively, to bury Salmond.

    The sooner the bin fire that remains of the SNP is consigned to the history books the better.

    Indy for Scotland!
    SNP Out!

  80. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    It is all moot as Trump is going to landslide it in the USA so Woke Labour will be as fucked as the Woke SNP. It seems that folks haven’t cottoned onto the fact the the Fib Dooms “Lid Dems” and Greens are Alphabet Queer Party’s.

    I will be spoiling my ballot.

  81. mike cassidy
    Ignored
    says:

    The only political question worth asking in Scotland on the eve of this General Election?

    How will two years of Starmerrule affect the Holyrood elections in two years

  82. Jeannie the Vth
    Ignored
    says:

    Agree in principle Rev, but still undecided in my constituency. George Kerevan is standing for Alba and he was a good MP in the past, however cannot bear the thought of Wee Dougie Alexander swooping in taking this seat. But struggling to give my vote to SNP. Not even spoiling my ballot will help.

    Never not voted before but no idea what to do this time!

  83. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    George wood says: 3 July, 2024 at 9:32 pm

    What on earth have I been reading. So called Independence supporters wanting the destruction of the SNP. A bloody nose in a Westminster election fine but destruction is madness.
    Clearly they are either Unionists or have no understanding of Scottish politics or deluded.

    What will happen if the SNP implodes is that movement will split into factions that will end up hating each other more than they hate the extreme Unionists.

    The strength of the Independence movement was that there was one party whilst the Unionists were fighting other Unionists as much as the SNP. The SNP snuck into government because of that.

    The only way we are going to achieve Independence is to join the SNP and change it back to what it used to be. A small number have managed to knock it off course and we vastly outnumber them.

    2015 UK General election. 56 seats of 59 seats. 2017 UK General election 35 out of 59 seats. 2019 UK General election 48 out of 59 seats.

    Did that give us independence?

  84. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    PacMan

    Re Holyrood.

    Maybe there won’t be one. They didn’t kit out Queen Elizabeth House for nothing. They’re already bypassing Holyrood at the moment.

  85. Dave
    Ignored
    says:

    Not that it really makes any difference to politics in Scotland, but I will celebrate every single SNP loss at this GE. Difficult to work out which SNP would-be MP I hate the most, but Alyn Smith, Deidre Brock and Kirsty Blackman are up there; I will award double prizes for Tommy Sheppard and Pete Wishart being defenestrated, but the most delicious decapitation will be Stephen Flynn’s. I will be on a bender for a solid week when he loses his seat. Genuinely. I’ve booked time off work to accommodate my merry-making. That prick boils my piss.

  86. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri says:
    3 July, 2024 at 9:37 pm

    PacMan

    They’ve done nothing. I’m not advocating voting NuSNP.

    I’d be careful voting a yoon tho. There would be absolutely nothing to stop Sir Kid Starver passing a bill that no one from the UK can ever secede & btw, get yer kids to get their boots on. They’re deployed next week.

    Sending a majority of Scottish unionists will be the BS “The Scottish ppl have spoken” they’ve been aching for since 2014.

    Scottish MPs are our representatives there in their eyes. They don’t separate votes on who was just having a protest to give the SNP a bloody nose. We may just backfire.

    And Sir Knight of the Realm will abolish parliament and make him dictator for life?

    Stop reading the Mail.

  87. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ george wood

    The NuSNP is no longer what the SNP was. It has been captured and all attempts by reasonable folk to regain a semblance of control and influence to get it back on track have failed.
    There is no way any Party wanting to achieve its core objective would have consistently acted the way it has over the past near decade.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-to-make-a-coup/

  88. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri says:
    3 July, 2024 at 9:51 pm

    PacMan

    Re Holyrood.

    Maybe there won’t be one. They didn’t kit out Queen Elizabeth House for nothing. They’re already bypassing Holyrood at the moment.

    If that is what you think, vote SNP.

  89. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    mike cassidy says:
    3 July, 2024 at 9:49 pm

    The only political question worth asking in Scotland on the eve of this General Election?

    How will two years of Starmerrule affect the Holyrood elections in two years

    The whole electoral campaign of Labour has been of Change but they haven’t said anything concrete about what that Change is. Given the state of the UK economy and Labour has said they won’t raise taxes, can Labour in Westminster survive two years based on what they have promised?

    It’s interesting times.

  90. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    George Wood

    “A small number have managed to knock it off course and we vastly outnumber them.”

    I don’t think it can ever be changed from within. Sturgeon & Angus Robertson changed party rules regarding membership participation & what they didn’t change they simply ignored conference votes.

    The party has been completely captured & it’s been captured by unelected fckwits in NGOs, Lobbyists & good old fashioned Anglo American interference who must protect their seat on the security council & Nukes on the Clyde.

    It’s deid. Its a unionist party now & we’ve already got three of them already.

  91. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “The only way we are going to achieve Independence is to join the SNP and change it back to what it used to be. A small number have managed to knock it off course and we vastly outnumber them.”

    George Wood.

    Jeezo oh, are there still people like you thinking that the SNP can be turned around, when the last ten years clearly shows it can’t be.

    The SNP ARE the roadblock to dissolving this union Sturgeon the Judas is still pulling the strings in the background, Yousaf wanted to cut a deal with Alba to remain FM but Sturgeon and her controlling clique made sure that didn’t happen.

    From the fit up of Alex Salmond to the LA of the day and the SNP taking Martin Keatings to court to prevent him finding out if we needed an S30, to the imprisoning of Craig Murray for pointing out the set up of Alex Salmond, to the plethora of wasted indy mandates, and the 56 SNP MPs sent to Westminster, and SFA happened, to the latest LA kowtowing to England’s Supreme court to block another indyref, and the missing 600K, to the pushing of gender policies that the majority of the Scottish public don’t want, the SNP are NOT a party for Scottish independence anymore

    Stop day dreaming that somehow if we get rid of a few bad eggs in the party that it will somehow come good, the SNP is now about self-interest and keeping the status quo intact.

    How many more carrots must they dangle in front of your nose before the penny drops?

  92. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “voting Scottish Labour as an independence supporter I feel is misguided to say the least, and voting for a smaller party or abstaining would have the same affect.”

    You have a very worryingly bad grasp of arithmetic.

  93. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    PacMan

    I’m not voting SNP.

    I’m simply saying careful what yeas vote for. It could backfire.

    For example, if I voted Labour & they ended up with the majority of Scottish MPs who’d go on to block indyref2 PERMANENTLY through WM I’d be pissed as hell.

    Scottish Unionist MPs WOULD vote it through.

    I’m not putting an X to that..

  94. Campbell Clansman
    Ignored
    says:

    “The only way we are going to achieve Independence is to join the SNP and change it back to what it used to be.”

    Some dreamers imagine a past when the SNP was pure.

    Consider–in the fairytale days, John Swinney was the SNP leader. To be exact: Swinney served as the leader of the SNP from 2000 to 2004 as Leader of the Opposition, and held various roles within the Scottish Cabinet from 2007 to 2023 under First Ministers Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.

    Yes, St. Alex kept Swinney in leadership roles. Just as St. Alex promoted Sturgeon and Humza.

    The SNP is pretty much today what it was back then, with the same set of leaders. It’s proven again and again that it’s corrupt, incompetent and incapable of redemption.

  95. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Geri says:
    3 July, 2024 at 10:14 pm

    PacMan

    I’m not voting SNP.

    I’m simply saying careful what yeas vote for. It could backfire.

    For example, if I voted Labour & they ended up with the majority of Scottish MPs who’d go on to block indyref2 PERMANENTLY through WM I’d be pissed as hell.

    Scottish Unionist MPs WOULD vote it through.

    I’m not putting an X to that..

    If in any way I have implied in my posts that I’m telling you how to vote, that is not my intention.

    If every SNP candidate won tomorrow would it make any difference on how Westminster acted?

    Remember David Cameron? He said in 2014 that he respected the 45% who had voted for independence then soon after he changed the narrative to EVEL.

    The same thing could happen now. Look at the news. So called British news talks about English only issues as concerning ‘The Nation’. Look a the current football, it’s wall to wall the future British King, Prince Williams supporting England.

    What you say is correct but the opposite is also correct. There is no definite way of accurately predicting how Westminster will act depending on how we vote.

    As I had previously said, how can Labour deliver on their vague promises when they said they are going to follow the previous governments spending plans? Can Labour last the next two years, never mind block indyref2?

    I’m not telling you or anyone else how to vote, all I am doing is commenting on your arguments.

  96. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    “even though you want the SNP smashed, actually biting the bullet and voting for a Unionist is an intolerable ask, that the short-term pain is too high a price for the longer-term gain.”

    The Rev. Stuart Campbell could not have been any more clearer than that.

    It is like taking painful therapy for three months to cure cancer and live cured for thirty years.

    Or saying no, the therapy is too painful, might as well die rather than look forward to thirty better years.

    No matter how much it hurts, vote tactically AGAINST every single SNP MP, including the likes of Cherry.

    Zero or close to zero SNP MPs is the only way to bring the cause for independence back from the dead.

  97. thothScot
    Ignored
    says:

    I held my nose and tactically voted on my postal vote. The party with the best chance of ousting the SNP got my vote.

  98. agent x
    Ignored
    says:

    “Re-Elect Stephen Flynn for Aberdeen South
    We did it
    On 3rd July 2024 we successfully raised £1,945 with 48 supporters in 42 days”
    ——————————————–

    They are saying “we did it” – but the target was £2000!

  99. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    The SNP are incapable of redemption. That’s why Swinney got the gig and Humza before him.

    The SNP were destroyed by the Murrells. Remember that when they die. We didn’t do it, they did it to themselves. We are just ordinary citizens who want independence. We will not be forced to vote for a party who deserted us.

    A party given 3 Westminster mandates and two Holyrood mandates since 2014. They were given plenty of chances, and lied to us every time.

    Sturgeon made sure indi ref 2 didn’t even get past the talking stage. This was her ultimate betrayal. Swinney backed her all the way. Only a few brave souls had the cahonies to leave the party.

    The rest are all just wage slaves addicted to the salary.

  100. Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
    Ignored
    says:

    IN MEMORIAM SNP

    Party’s over.
    Setting sun.
    Cause betrayed.
    Your lies have won.
    Saltire blue
    now rainbow hue.
    Battle wode
    by woke faced down.
    All trust now dust.
    Ash in the can.
    Supreme Court, well done!
    Hail London Town!
    Braveheart again
    is hung and drawn
    though this time hears
    his last words drown
    as loud Scottish voices
    arcanely intone:
    “Queerdom!”

  101. James
    Ignored
    says:

    Red;
    “How come ALBA aren’t doing better?

    Alex Salmond is a better speaker and campaigner than Nigel Farage, so how come Reform are making waves and ALBA is in stealth mode?”

    It’s called the English mainstream media.

  102. Confused
    Ignored
    says:

    One time, the UVF and UDA had their own, murderous, civil war; a contest where you didn’t want anyone to win.

    You look at each of the parties only to think each is worse than the other – shall I vote for the wanker, or the cunt, the pervert, or the tractor? But “all should lose” is not on the ballot (choose an MP by random ballot from the constituency residents)

    – well vote ALBA if you can, I suppose. But the main enjoyment to be had tomorrow, is that a lot of absolute entitled cunts who made careers out of selling indy to the people, then shat all over it, will be doomed. Good riddance.

    talking of “dumb” …

    in between the football/tennis and avoiding a pile of work I have to do, I have been wandering here and there on the other political sites, posting shite, for my amusement

    – it normally goes along the lines of : THE SNP ARE DOING A GREAT JOB AND WE SHOULD STICK TO THE PLAN

    it disturbs me how many people, oblivious to all that has happened in the past 10 years, agreeing with me, unironically; sometimes a subtle boy might just be trolling my trolling – touche – chapeau, fellow provocateur, but I don’t think so. I continue in my vein, taking it ever so slightly off, and becoming dubious, ridiculous, insane. I sometimes post bollocks that prime bolloxistes like Small, Hassan, Kane, have actually said (and paid money for saying)

    – only about half seem to get it : “nice one, troll” “LOL” but a lot of “this is so true”, even “spot on analysis” – Yikes …

    my utterly demented arguments for the union are even worse, and yet, there are plenty takers

    They say half of people are below average, you can’t help it, and we all get one vote each

    It has always been thus : you could imagine in the tribe, in the caveman days, people are sick and dying, einstein caveman says : let’s get our water from higher ground, a fresh running stream, and use reeds to filter out any residual dirt …

    and the people say in unison : fuck you, nutter – we will take our water from the swamp, as we always have done, and sacrifice a few goats and a young child to the swamp god … nob … what’s he fucking like that guy … he scrapes things on the walls of the cave, did you know that? This is a “letter”, this is a “word” – wossallthatabout

  103. Confused
    Ignored
    says:

    Been reading about de Gaulle, a true nationalist; he was close to getting murdered by the british during the war, he pissed them off so much (see sikorski, patton)

    and he tried to keep britain out of the EU, for good reason and wrote an essay on it which was prophetic; it basically predicts all their bullshit up to brexit

    In his memoirs, de Gaulle poured out his bitterness over the “insolence” and “insults” of the British. “The events proved,” he wrote, “that for ENGLAND, WHEN SHE IS THE STRONGER, THERE IS NO ALLIANCE WHICH HOLDS, NO TREATY WHICH IS RESPECTED, NO TRUTH WHICH MATTERS.” “In the long history he carried in his head,” Jackson comments, “England was France’s hereditary enemy and historic rival, but that memory was overlaid by a more recent one: a bewilderment that BRITAIN HAD ALLOWED HERSELF TO LOSE A SENSE OF NATIONAL AMBITION AND BECOME, IN HIS EYES, AN AMERICAN SATELLITE.” For that reason, he blocked British membership in the European Economic Community or “Common Market” – forerunner to today’s European Union – fearing that the EEC WOULD OTHERWISE COME “UNDER AMERICAN DEPENDENCY AND DIRECTION. That is not at all what France aims to achieve …”

    – people that say oh no the EU superstate is shit – well, you are partly right, but it was the americans that made it so, and there are no “de Gaulles” anymore.

    There were 12 plots to kill him, 2 serious and we all know the zimmermann film, day of the jackal – he had some balls, even booting nato out of france; he heard that they were giving, via their gladio network, aid to the OAS, who were trying to kill him; he wouldn’t take that.

  104. Andrew
    Ignored
    says:

    “It’s called the English mainstream media.”

    Which the comments section are apparently voting in support of. Absolute madness. I could totally understand voting Alba or another indy candidate, if one was standing in my constituency, I would vote for them. I could understand a spoiled ballot, or even not voting at all. All of thst makes sense.

    But to “tactically” vote for the Unionists? Have you all learned nothing from history?

  105. McDuff
    Ignored
    says:

    I loathe Labour but i will bite the bullitt and vote for them as the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous SNP need a severe gubbing. They make me sick having betrayed its supporters and the cause.

  106. shug
    Ignored
    says:

    If I vote for the SNP and if/when the SNP get trounced they will keep on peddling their route to independence. There is no Alba candidate in my area.

    As Stu says labour don’t give a stuff about them and they don’t even see the mess Sturgeon has made of things.

    Having said that they could not see a problem with:

    Conspiring to send an innocent man to jail.
    They knew he was innocent.
    They committed perjury.
    The covered it up.
    Senior people in the party not involved directly said nothing!! and have said nothing!!!!!

    And worst of all they don’t think the UK security services and the Committee of the UK wont use it against them when it suits them.

    I don’t knows whats the worst

    The badness of what they did to Salmond or leaving themselves open to black-male.

    Gormless stupidity.

  107. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s because Sturgeon turned Salmond into a hate figure. She stitched him up and tried to besmirch his very character.

    Now the average dimwit just sees Salmond and sees the invented sex pest. In other words any message he has is ignored, because of listener bias.

    For us that actually listen to Salmond. We can hear the articulate perfect sense he speaks. Your average punter is just a news consumer. That’s what the media rely on.People don’t like standing our. So they accept the majority chain of thought.

    Remember 80% of people don’t study politics. So the news is whatever is fed to them like nodding dogs.

  108. Taranaich
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s an analogue you could make about the Harrying of Buchan, that the Bruce could not have unified Scotland without destroying his Comyn rivals even if they were also fighting for Scotland’s independence. But I might upset those who don’t like military history references.

    I feel like in this new constituency of Inverclyde & Renfrewshire West, the matter of the winner where I live is largely academic. It’s a Labour target seat, Martin McCluskey hasn’t been off the papers & TV, & he came very close (within 500 votes in fact) back in 2017. The Unionists will coalesce behind him, & with both the Greens & Alba standing, it’s difficult to see Ronnie Cowan winning a fourth election.

    I remember campaigning for Ronnie. I remember my soles bruised & bleeding from leafleting, papercut hands from folding letters, blackened fingertips from delivering neespapers. I remember those heady days when an SNP landslide was far from assured, & Inverclyde was one of the seats it was thought would remain red. remember the joy & elation of being at the count, the sense of renewed purpose & hope, as it felt like *we still had a chance*.

    With everything that’s happened, I feel nothing but rage & anguish to see what all that hard graft brought us to – a point where Ronnie Cowan, a man I admired & looked up to & worked so hard to get down to Westminster, will now struggle to retain his seat after 9 years – when as little as 2 years into his term, indeoendence looked a matter of near certainty.

    I have the questionable “fortune” of living in a seat where my vote, in all likelihood, won’t affect the outcome. So I can vote (or not vote) with my principles & the least-bad option for independence intact. I might be moved to vote against the SNP candidate if I was in a marginal seat, for everything said here. I don’t envy those who face this choice.

    For me, the central problem remains: for as long as the people of Scotland are in the dark about the worst political scandal in our nation’s modern history – perpetrated by the SNP leadership & civil servants – we are not going to get anywhere. The sooner the SNP falls, the sooner the truth can emerge, & the people of Scotland can finally understand the immensity of the crime committed not just against our greatest leader, but the people themselves.

    Hell mend the SNP. The Cause comes first.

  109. joolz
    Ignored
    says:

    “But it would also keep the party half-alive, a shambling legion of rotting gravy-fattened zombies staggering on malevolently towards oblivion, reanimated by UK taxpayer money to dangle carrots in front of the unsaveably gullible while continuing to choke any hopes of rebuilding the Yes movement.”

    Spot on. Perfect imagery.

    I understand everything you’ve said. I did have another think about not spoiling my paper, but my MP is Joanna Cherry, and if the SNP is reduced to one seat I’d be ok if it was her.

    My spoiled paper will be because of women’s rights, which is why I refuse to vote SNP, and that’s also why I won’t vote Labour. Indy won’t be happening for a while whatever happens, but women will lose more rights as soon as Labour get in. I cannot put my X against that. They will get in anyway. My spoiled paper will show I have no party to vote for.

  110. Towbar Sullivan
    Ignored
    says:

    So what’s the message here – vote SLab instead of Alba? If Alba gets only a joke number of votes in this election then they are toast. They will be seen in future elections as just another fringe party with zero chance of ever getting elected – just a wasted vote.

    So the strategy here seems likely to seriously damage the SNP and to destroy Alba. If this is a strategy for Indy… well, it’s too subtle for me to understand.

  111. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    Towbar; “So what’s the message here – vote SLab instead of Alba? If Alba gets only a joke number of votes in this election then they are toast. They will be seen in future elections as just another fringe party with zero chance of ever getting elected – just a wasted vote.”

    Polling indicates that that’s the outcome Alba faces regardless of who you vote. That’s because it’s true, Alba is a fringe party and will remain so as long as people like you are looking at things all wrong and keeping the SNP in the game.

    Alba’s only chance of success depends on Sturgeon’s SNP being destroyed. (yes, she’s still there manipulating everything)

    The independence movement’s only chance of success depends on Sturgeon’s SNP being destroyed. (yes, she’s still there controlling everything)

    As Stu alluded to in the article, it looks like Labour (and no doubt the British State) would like the SNP to survive too — because they fear what will replace it. For that reason alone you should vote to destroy the SNP, regardless of all other considerations.

  112. John Cutesack
    Ignored
    says:

    For years i posted on many a Facebook page or blog online pointing out the fact that the SNP never actually wanted in independence in Scotland and my words were mocked or replied to with vitriolic hate. They took the anti English sentiment held by so many Scots and used it as a vessel to run an unchallenged Scottish government that has done nothing but harm to our country while misleading those foolish enough who continually vote for them. I hate to break the news (Again) but voting SNP this election wont bring another vote for independence any closer. Their old nickname “The Tartan Tories” was given to them for a reason, not by chance.

  113. Margaret Eleftheriou
    Ignored
    says:

    confused@ 11.17pm
    In the light of your comments in that post, you might be interested to read THE INHERITORS, by William Golding (much less well-known than Lord of the Flies.
    There is a very similar description of a tribe that disappears because it has no words to describe major new ideas, such as ‘bridge’, ‘container’.
    Worth a read in between the footwall/tennis?

  114. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    Potential remains awesome, regardless of the politics – so still best to enjoy the day & vote with your heart, than get too bogged down in tactics (even if a 300th minute penalty or wonder goal changes all perception of same)

    Bon Courage 🙂

    https://x.com/karpathy/status/1808686307331428852

  115. Doug Bryce
    Ignored
    says:

    Wings is basically the Farage of Scotland. Wants the SNP destroyed (much like Farage plans a reverse take over of the Tories). Personally I wouldn’t trust either of them.

  116. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    In the past I would have given my vote to SNP. They have therefore lost one vote, as I will be voting ALBA. If, however, I lived in say, the constituency of Pete Wishart, then I absolutely would vote for the next likely winning candidate, regardless of party. Even voting Tory to get him out. It is deadweights like Wishart, merrily riding the Westminster gravy train (and getting very, very wealthy in the process) that are the problem.

    Wishart is the very personification of the SNP doing nothing for independence. He proudly brags about how long he has been in Westminster. He seemingly doesn’t understand the irony of a supposedly pro-independence MP bragging about nearly two decades in England’s parliament.

    As things stand where I am, the SNP are not likely to win this time anyway, and as other above have said, it is VITAL to support ALBA. They have 20 candidates standing, so check if they are on your voting paper. Sure, they are unlikely to win, but it takes a vote from the SNP, and will bolster the credibility of the REAL viable alternative to the SNP, that is truly committed to independence by any mechanism. Besides, the policies of ALBA are excellent, with people like Ash Regan in their ranks.

    https://www.albaparty.org/alba_candidates_2024

    However, as pointed out in the article above, the whole election is a sick joke on Scotland. We could all vote tory and we’d get a Labour government voted in by England’s votes alone. We could all vote SNP, and still get what ENGLAND chooses.

    It is an English election, for England, and by England, to elect THEIR ENGLISH parliament in London, England. makes my feckin blood boil. If things were the other way around, nobody in England would tolerate it for one freaking second, yet Scots just sigh and ignore the fact they are run as an English colony.

    Scotland, a colony of England, since 1707.

  117. Johnny
    Ignored
    says:

    Shut up, Doug Bryce, you absolute idiot.

    We are in the mess we are in because the SNP forgot IT was supposed to destroy the fabric of UK politics.

    They settled in, against all their promises.

  118. Johnny
    Ignored
    says:

    Doug Bryce: sigh, we are where we are because the SNP forgot IT was supposed to play the role of wrecker of the “U.K. polity”.

    They settled in, against all declarations to the contrary, and have failed.

    Bully for you if you’re content with that, because trying would be just too unseemly for you.

  119. Terfey
    Ignored
    says:

    Here in the Borders our MP is the lamentable John Lamont (Con) whose never done anything for the area that I can see and whose office on Hawick High Street is surrounded by derelict empty shops. I’ve never voted Tory and never will. His majority was just a few thousand and the serious challenger is SNP, David Wilson. Seems like a decent enough man but has a trans flag in his bio and on his leaflets. I’m not a turkey and I’m not going to vote for Christmas and the giving away of women’s rights to men in dresses. I’m pro Indy so I’m not going to vote SNP on that count either after they’ve thrown away so many chances, not even to get the Tories out. The rest are either nutters or no hopers. No Alba candidate. So I’m going to spoil my ballot. The only decision I have yet to make is whether to write: “Respect my sex if you want my X” or “End the Union” across the ballot paper. Some democracy we live in.

  120. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Doug Bryce says:
    4 July, 2024 at 6:37 am

    Wings is basically the Farage of Scotland. Wants the SNP destroyed (much like Farage plans a reverse take over of the Tories). Personally I wouldn’t trust either of them.

    Like Labour before them, by turning up and voting SNP, you are acting as an unpaid intern working for him or her to ensure they enjoy their lavish salary for the next 5 years.

    Apart from that, you get nothing else from doing this.

    Enjoy.

  121. Simon
    Ignored
    says:

    Is there a reason that this chart does not include DUP and SF, who may each win the same number of seats as Reform and definitely more than Green and PC?

  122. Funguy
    Ignored
    says:

    Love this English website, find the comments very entertaining and occasionally educational. But Alba are not the answer. Wee Eck can’t deliver independence as proved. SNP have only been involved for self greed same as greens. Labour and Conservative parties are both owned by the same 13% of the UK population…… maybe we will have a hung parliament. Sunak wants to move to his house in America and remember who funded Starmer. So all in all different day same crap.

  123. Colin Alexander
    Ignored
    says:

    I challenged how the former Alba MPs only did one protest at WM which led to them being escorted out. I was told by a prominent Alba supporter, they would get banned from taking their seats if they did more protests. So much for Salmond’s plan of bringing WM to its knees via electing Alba MPs. It’s Scots MPs who go on their knees, in servitude to the English Crown.

    That’s how Salmond was raging at SALVO’s Sarah Salyers because she stood up at an Alba conference (Salmond having failed in his skulduggery to stop her having a voice at conference). She burst Salmond’s bubble by saying that complete rejection of English Crown sovereignty and assertion of Scottish sovereignty is the only way forward.

    The English Crown’s oath man Salmond, was raging because she blew a hole through the whole pretence of indy via electing British career politicians.

    We will NEVER end rule by WM MPs by electing more MPs.

    I completely reject English Crown in WM sovereignty exercised by UK MPs. So, I am boycotting the election.

  124. sam
    Ignored
    says:

    @Robinov Cybernat

    “The problem for me is that there is no way anyone in Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine is voting for Labour.
    THere is ZERO chance I’m going to vote for the Tories, Reform or that other party of nondescript entities.
    Greens? I work in Oil & Gas.”

    You may already be reading here

    https://judithcurry.com/

    or https://notrickszone.com/

  125. Ruby Thursday
    Ignored
    says:

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/avoiding-the-worst/#comment-2867551

    That is an interesting one Confused.

    Well done you are not always boring. 🙂

    You won the fight between yourself and the Norse Warrior.

    Congrats.

  126. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Louis @ 7:05 am

    “Wishart is the very personification of the SNP doing nothing for independence. He proudly brags about how long he has been in Westminster. He seemingly doesn’t understand the irony of a supposedly pro-independence MP bragging about nearly two decades in England’s parliament.”

    Aye, aw thay elected SNP rogues dinnae see their inevitable total abject failure as (faux) nationalist MPs and MSPs when they retire on colonial pensions. For all are, or become ‘colonial agents pensioned off at high reward’ right enough.

  127. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    The arithmetic of irrelevance:
    Scotland 57, ENGLAND 543.
    The last time Scotland was actually «relevant» within the union was…..errrhhh.
    Vote and you provide oxygen to the BritState political system that keeps Scotland «irrelevant».
    After 300 years and the facts of the case have still not penetrated those obdurate skulls?
    4th july, independence day, for some.

  128. Andrew scott
    Ignored
    says:

    Interesting if libdems get say 40 seats they will become official opposition and snp lose their two automatic questions at PMQs

  129. Ruby Thursday
    Ignored
    says:

    It turns out I made a mistake!

    I won’t be getting my phone call from Tommy.

    I should have told the canvasser who came to my door on Tuesday that I was going to vote SNP & that Tommy was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    If I had done that Tommy would have phoned and maybe even given me a lift to the polling station aka the cooncil offices.

    The tuesday canvasser’s job was to prepare a list of who should get a call from Tommy.

    Oh God don’t get me started on the ‘£100k Everyman fuckin statue’
    that’s ootside ‘the polling station’.

  130. Gordon
    Ignored
    says:

    I think this quote from Alex Salmond shows that ALBA are NOT pursuing a Section 30 referendum in 2026:

    Salmond said: “In this election, every single ALBA vote will count for independence. However, our campaign is building and will come to fruition in the Scottish elections of 2026, with the compelling power of our case that a majority vote for independence parties on the list should become the mandate for independence. No more vainly begging London for another referendum – instead set the day and set the hour. That argument will sweep Scotland.

    “We intend to claim a minimum of 15 per cent on that list vote, which will win us some 20 or more seats in the Parliament. That potentially will make for a nationalist majority in Parliament and an independence Government with the political will to take on Westminster and set Scotland on course for freedom.

    “This election has demonstrated that the people are willing on independence, but the political leadership is weak. It is our job in ALBA to provide that strength and that leadership.”

    To me, it’s master stroke using the list as the basis for an independence majority

  131. Ruby Thurday
    Ignored
    says:

    It ain’t half complicated living in a colony and pretending you aren’t.

    I wish I hadn’t read this article. I was quite happy with the idea of not voting and not having to look at ‘The Everyman statue that costs us £100K.

    I wonder if the Everyman statue has a fanny?
    Never thought of that before but I suppose the purpose of art is to get you thinking!

  132. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Gordon

    Utilising the regional list vote to help create a pro-indy majority in the Scottish Parliament has been discussed many times before.
    The trouble is that due to the voting system in place, it only works if another pro-indy Party is capable of cleaning up in the FPTP constituency votes and they are willing to unite with another Party.
    Great in principle, but as history has shown us, not so easy to put into reality.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/flying-with-wings/

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-cat-and-all-the-pigeons/

    Personally I don’t think 2 years is enough time to turn things around and repair the divisive damage the NuSNP have created. That’s based on the powers that be showing us how easy it is for them to influence matters, and also from speaking to a lot of the electorate that are woefully uninformed and as a result political dumb, and will therefore always be outplayed until such a time they wake up.

  133. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    TURABDIN said;

    “The arithmetic of irrelevance:
    Scotland 57, ENGLAND 543.”

    Precisely, Turabdin! The relevant constitutional arithmetic is Scotland 1, England 1, because both kingdoms are sovereign, and it was those two kingdoms that forged the Treaty, and not their then 558 constituencies!

  134. James Barr Gardner
    Ignored
    says:

    Vote for Truth, Vote for Scottish Independence, Vote ALBA.

    End the Union and Let Scotland Prosper.

  135. Gordon
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan

    Yeah, it could have been done in 2021 before Sturgeon did her SNP 1&2. Hopefully the remnants of the SNP MPs will see sense and support it in 2026

  136. Xaracen
    Ignored
    says:

    @Turabdin; Also, England’s 543 should include the English kingdom’s territories of Wales and Northern Ireland, bringing its total up to 593, because the Treaty was about the kingdoms, and not about the constituencies.

  137. Tam
    Ignored
    says:

    If only there was someone with a track record of building a small party up into a competent party of government and getting the British government to agree to a referendum.

  138. Ruby Thurday
    Ignored
    says:

    FAO of the ‘Ruby Chats’ fans

    Sorry I let you down on the previous thread. I did in fact write a very long post for you which I’d expected to have been posted on the previous thread but it fell fowl/foul of the censors. It’s a shame because it was brilliant an absolute work of genius.

    I’m going to go back there to write about ‘The Everyman statue’ which many people may not know about. I will also be researching the origin of the phrase ‘fell foul/fowl.

    ‘Ruby Chats’ everyday of the week. Don’t miss it.

    ‘Ruby Chats’ only when allowed and doesn’t pull the articles off topic early.

    I respect Stu and am wondering how his ‘Trains Rights Now’ campaign is going and if he has considered getting the bus ‘From Bath to Bathgate’

    ‘From Bath to Bathgate’ could be the title of a ‘Proclaimers’ song or something Ed Milliband said during Project fear in 2014.

    Remember all that stuff

    From Greenwich to Grangemouth
    From Edinburgh to East Ham
    From Brighton too Broughty Ferry
    From London to Londonderry (maybe not that one but you know what I mean)

    From London to Londonderry might be coming soon.

  139. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal…bla bla bla.”

    Fine words, America. Great opening sentence for a dystopian future fiction novel.

    I was hoping the ‘British’ BBC, because it’s so fond of America, would be doing in-depth coverage of America’s independence day celebrations, but it’s gone all quiet about those – wonder why.

    Not much happening in Scotland today – there’s some English ‘election’ going on, but that’s about it.

    Why hold English elections in Scotland, though? Don’t get me wrong – It’s nice to be thought so highly of that us Scots are given a say in a foreign country’s business.

    Nothing of much interest in the United Kingdom of England and Great England’s ‘changing of the colonial guard’ ceremony for Scots to get excited about – same old, same old, old colonial claptrap.

  140. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “TURABDIN

    The arithmetic of irrelevance:
    Scotland 57, ENGLAND 543.
    The last time Scotland was actually «relevant» within the union was…..errrhhh.”

    This is exactly why Scots MUST NOT vote in England’s elections, for Scots cannot make any difference, our politicians are vastly outnumbered the games is rigged against Scots, and by continuing to vote in this alien parliaments elections all Scots are doing is giving the foreign country of England credibility, for it parliament to rule over Scotland.

    Westminster has NO RULE over Scotland but only what we give it, the legitimacy of the union wouldn’t stand up in any court that’s not in the UK when put under a microscope. The English government and the House Jocks are terrified that it does end up under a microscope, and one that’s out with their control.

    Further more no political party should be able to stand in Scottish elections that are not registered as a Scottish political party with their HQ’s in Scotland, that rules out Scottish Labour, the Scottish Tories and the Scottish Lib/Dems which are NOT currently Scottish parties.

    What we also need is our very own Scottish (smaller of course) Electoral Commission and not to use that of the foreign country of England’s.

  141. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    “Why hold English elections in Scotland, though?”

    I’ve figured it out. It’s because there are so many English foreign nationals living in, what to them is a foreign country, Scotland that t’s easier to provide them with local candidates from English political parties rather than have them all vote by proxy – now it makes sense

    There probably aren’t enough English nationals living in Spain to warrant the fielding of English political party candidates in Spain’s national elections.

    It’s still nice that us Scots are allowed to play in England’s general election in Scotland too, though. It doesn’t change anything for us, but it’s the thought that counts – isn’t it?

  142. Southernbystander
    Ignored
    says:

    Margaret Eleftheriou
    Ignored
    says:
    4 July, 2024 at 4:07 am

    ‘confused@ 11.17pm
    In the light of your comments in that post, you might be interested to read THE INHERITORS, by William Golding (much less well-known than Lord of the Flies’.

    It is a wonderful novel, it really is and so thought-provoking. Highly recommended.

    Easy choice for me today: Labour. I live in a Tory/Lab marginal, currently Tory, Labour before that and the same Tory MP as now before that.

    Don’t know much about the Labour candidate and sadly the last one (a decent person and Corbynite), left the party post 2019 after the Starmer purges, though then went on to form the bonkers and totally failed Northen Independence Party, so very questionable judgement there.

  143. Neth
    Ignored
    says:

    This article is f***ing nonsense
    Starmer is no Machiavelli

    There’s no real choice for Independence supporters in this election since the outcome will be decided, as usual, by English votes

    FWIW my take is:

    If you have an ISP candidate then vote ISP
    The only party to endorse abstentionism and to be on board with Salvo/Liberation

    If no ISP but Alba are standing then that is an option to give them some traction and exposure prior to Holyrood 2026

    If you are luke-warm on Alba (they are still wooly on strategy for Independence) then best bet is to re-purpose ballot as per Peter Bell’s #EndTheUnion

    Do not vote for ANY unionist party (Tory, Labour, LibDems,Greens, Reform and …….SNP)
    The SNP are devolutionist and therefore unionost

  144. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    This is Comedy Gold from the (BAP) member who revealed during the SNP leadership hustings that the only way for Scotland to have a vote on ending the union is to obtain an S30 from Westminster.

    Forbes also worked hand-in-hand with the Tories Michael Gove to force Freeports on Scots, she’s a treacherous b*stard as is her party the SNP which has sold Scotland out.

    “Kate Forbes has claimed feeling “heartbreak” over Labour’s repeated rejection of independence talks with the SNP after the general election.

    The Deputy First Minister claimed Keir Starmer was copying Rishi Sunak’s approach to the constitutional question and “ignoring” Scottish voters.”

  145. Cuilean
    Ignored
    says:

    No Alba or other indy party to vote for today, so I voted tactically for the 2nd placed party in 2019.

    We must get rid of the zombie, charlatan SNP.

    I felt a huge sense of satisfaction in sticking it to the SNP today, my old party that now hates: women, gays, lesbians, children and the political titan, that gave them all their wins, Alex Salmond.

  146. Southernbystander
    Ignored
    says:

    Northcode
    Ignored
    says:
    4 July, 2024 at 12:15 pm

    ‘“Why hold English elections in Scotland, though?”

    I’ve figured it out. It’s because there are so many English foreign nationals living in, what to them is a foreign country.’

    Well in that they would agree with the Scottish nationalist viewpoint surely?

    But the question is circular and you know the answer.

    Scotland is part of the UK and it is a UK election. You can call it an ‘English election’ all you like, but whatever the breakdown of the mathematics of the countries that make up the Union and thus the influence in who ends up in power overall, constituencies across the UK will be represented at Westminster by their MPs. It is they who we are actually voting for. In that sense, the entities that are Scotland, Wales, NI and England are at best secondary in a GE.

    Only independence can overcome the huge population difference between Scotland and England that will always have the biggest influence on what party gets in to run the UK Union, though I suppose PR could give greater represenation but even then would it really address the reality of that difference?

  147. Hobbit
    Ignored
    says:

    @cuilean, and anyone else

    If you could remind me please, why did Alex Salmond resign after the 2014 vote, and would he have done better to have played a long game and waited for the Independence movement’s momentum to return?

  148. Hatey Mchateface
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s the 59th minute of the 11th hour, but at last it has all become clear.

    Thanks to Hatuey.

    The BritNat deep Yoon state has quietly and anonymously leaked, on dodgy and un-attributable online sites, that they want us to vote SNP.

    And because the BritNat deep Yoon state never lies, and everything you read on dodgy and un-attributable online sites is axiomatically true, we must all not vote SNP.

    Great. Loving the clarity.

    I’m going to scribble over every name on the ballot and write “Humous” on the bottom. I strongly entreat every true Scot to join with me.

    Freedom! (Not for us, but there’s far more deserving cases for us to sort out first).

    BTW, having read all the comments on this thread, I am now able to swivel my left eye through 360 degrees. My right eye is still a bit lazy, but I’m confident it will get there.

  149. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    The Zz-i-o- Mon-st-ers must be getting desperate, as they have asked their western G-e-n–o-c-ide backers to put pressure on Qatar for them to put pressure on Hez–bol–lah (Hezb-o–ll-ah has an office in Qatar) to allow the zzzi-o- mon-ste-rs to return to Northern I–zz-h-el-l.

    Hez-bol-lah have ignored the plea and have launched over 200 mi-ssi-les into Northern Izz–h–el-l today, West Asia is about to explode.

  150. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    Republicofscotland.
    You get it. Why should Scots, living in a well defined geographic, legal and cultural entity take part in an election whose results are marginal, at best, to Scottish interests and at worst damaging in their anglocentrism.
    Heads or tails, you loose.
    UKGB&NI Is an pretentious acronym signifying very little in 2024.
    The political tectonics in the West are moving. The seismic shocks may be about to hit the Atlantic fringes.

  151. Neth
    Ignored
    says:

    @Northcode at 12:15
    @Southerbystander at 12:58

    Interestingly the belated Scottish Census data shows that there are around 500,000 “born in England” now living in Scotland or about 10% of the population

    While these will not all be adult incomers of voting age that is a VERY high proportion

    The reverse equivalent for “born in Scotland” living in England is about 790,000 which, while being a higher absolute number, equates to only around 1.42% of the English population

    I don’t think there is another country in the world where as much as 10% of the population are immigrants from just ONE other country and where that one other country just happens to have a vested interest in suppressing any independence movement

  152. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Southernbystander @ 12:58 pm

    “the entities that are Scotland, Wales, NI and England are at best secondary in a GE.”

    You can remove England from your list of ‘dependencies’; in terms of overall voting power England-as-UK does whatever it wants with the three ‘internal colonies’. Why do you think there are independence movements if not to stop the dominating influence of one people and culture over others?

  153. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    “I felt a huge sense of satisfaction in sticking it to the SNP today”

    You will feel more satisfaction later when you see the results. Under Sturgeon, the SNP became dark, dishonest, and dangerous (just like her).

    So far I have only discussed the political reasons for getting the SNP out, but it is also the moral thing to do.

    I’m doing it for all the people who would be alive today if the SNP had not imposed DNRs on them.

    I’m doing it for all those people with addiction problems who needlessly died.

    I’m doing it for all those people who donated to the ring-fenced indyref fund. They still don’t know where their money went.

    I’m doing it for all those former SNP members who realised the commitment to indyref2 was a con.

    I’m doing it for all those who saw through the lies of the Salmond trial and realised it was a shocking deception aimed to putting an innocent man in prison.

    I’m doing it for the multitude of kids in Scotland who are hungry and in poverty today — the money spent on brainwashing you could have been used to feed you.

    And I’m doing it for me because politicians have never made me feel so sick.

  154. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Black , heavy clouds n continuous , teeming rain …..the gods of metaphor being a bit unsubtle , a bit heavy-handed the day : n BTW …. Scotland’s Summer is M.I.A . Prob jist couldnae be arsed turning-up . Cannae blame it .

    Aye , s’aw doom n gloom n nae new broom , in’t it ?

    Naw . There should at least be the consolation/entertainment of seeing some of the SNP doormats gettn Portillo’d tae fck ; n unlike that bozo , they’re unlikely to get a lucrative , job-for-life gig fannying aboot the world on trains for the Brutish Drag Queen Corporation .

    Though some a thum might get joabs checkin’ tickets oan the Embra-Lungdone Sleeper .

    Failing that ….those supermarket shelves won’t stack themselves 🙂

  155. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    “Well in that they would agree with the Scottish nationalist viewpoint surely?”

    The opposite – they’re colonisers.

    If the proposition that Scotland is a colony is accepted, it is nonsense to suggest that her indigenous people have a democratic voice.

    If Scotland is a colony there can be no real Union – only the illusion of union attempting to disguise the oppression of a small nation by another larger nation high on its delusion of superiority.

    If Scotland is a colony the only ‘real’ voice the Scots have (for the moment at least) is their silence; their abstention from the shallow political games and machinations of another nation not their own – yet one which arrogantly assumes authority over them – and their refusal to give any kind of legitimacy to their own subjugation.

    And if Scotland is a colony – it’s time she was liberated from that sorry state.

    I have for some time now been convinced by Alf Baird’s assertion and his subsequent supporting argument which he clearly and expertly sets down in his various papers and in his book, Doun-Hauden, that Scotland is effectively a colony.

  156. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Hughes @ 13.57.

    Be nice to hear Mr Wishart enquiring, “You want to supersize that for annextra £1.50 ?”

  157. Ruby Thursday
    Ignored
    says:

    I think the English in Spain get to vote in the English elections.

    No idea how they do it.

    That might be another topic to cover on ‘Ruby’s Chat’

    ‘Ruby’s Chat’ found in the backside end of all posts when off topic chat is acceptable and very welcome.

    How do the English ex-pats and English illegal immigrants in Spain vote.

    Also BOTCs voting rights will be researched. Read ‘Ruby’s Chat’ to learn things you didn’t even know you needed to know.

  158. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Sven

    Lol . Aye , or if that’s too demanding for the Trougher-In-Chief he’s maybe got a shout * performing * in a Festive Season pantomime , eg as Widow Wanky : his much-boasted-about lengthy tenure doing ‘uck all in W.M other than eating , drinking n sleeping could come in handy

  159. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Hughes @ 14.43.

    Hadn’t thought that the extreme sciatic flare up I’m enduring today would have allowed me to laugh out loud, Robert.
    “Widow Wanky” … your day has not been in vain, I nearly experienced a Tena Man moment !

  160. Robert Hughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Glad to have provided a wee bit of levity for you Sven . REALLY glad such levity didn’t result in an * unfortunate * pant-scare 🙂

  161. Hatey McHateface
    Ignored
    says:

    @Republicofscotland says:4 July, 2024 at 1:23 pm

    Great news.

    Mind to vote for Humous – you know it makes sense.

    And learn how to write “Scotland”, for the love of Jenny Side. You come across as pig ignorant, or deliberately disrespectful, arguably both.

  162. Hatey Mchateface
    Ignored
    says:

    @Hatuey says:4 July, 2024 at 1:49 pm

    I’m doing it for …

    Not doing it for Beth then?

    It’s a shame, but it’s no surprise, that none of you will own the shitshow you are all so enthusiastically claiming you’re going to dismantle today.

    In as much as anybody on Wings BTL is responsible for what happened to Scotland over the past 10 years, you’re one of the more culpable.

    Not looking as if you have learned anything though, so the next 10 years will be eerily familiar to you.

  163. James
    Ignored
    says:

    Jesus H Christos can somebody shut that Daily Mail clown up?

  164. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Neth @ 1:31 pm

    “that is a VERY high proportion”

    Yes, people from rest-UK account for over half of all in-migration to Scotland, and Scotland’s population is growing only through in-migration. The figure will be even higher if ‘extraction’ is added; perception of national identity being heavily influenced by parental/family connections. But the general trend in regard to UK ‘population management’ policy in Scotland is clear:

    https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/10/26/determinants-of-independence-demographics-2/

  165. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ James 5pm I think Jenny Bastard tax John MOAN is missing his wee mates franchise fanny, chasTitty and the clansman cunt,funnily enough John and his angry wee mates like to go on about people who voted for the Sturgeon Nonce Party, YET NEVER let on who they voted for, I would guess John hating paying his taxes would have voted tory the party of law , order and business, yet for 14 years the tollies have presided over RECORD levels of illegal immigration,And there are MORE businesses failing and going bust than there has ever been , I would guess ChasTitty also votes tory as he is the epitome of the BORING golf club wanker that everybody avoids and moans about the FEES, clansman cunt is definitely a liebour voter of the sir kid starver opinion, fuck everybody naebody likes me, the franchise fanny is defo a tory voter who likes to denigrate the schemies and workees at his dinner parties in his middle class abode

  166. Jamie
    Ignored
    says:

    Fair points raised by you mostly there but you’re dead wrong about mcgregor. Scotland dominated midfield against Hungary with 58% possession. Hungary only won when we finally opened up and their counter attack finally paid off, pretty much proving why Clarke played the way he did, our defence is not good enough against a fast counter and our striker, a lone striker, a very hard role to play, is not at the level needed to punish the big teams regularly. Hence the poor return of goals.

    I spoiled my ballot, no danger I will ever vote for a unionist. The snp will die soon enough, they only have the woke vote left, they abandoned their base, that always ends in disaster. This is the first election I’ve never voted SNP in my life, I know I’m not the only one making this switch today.

    2026 will be the breakthrough year for Alba.

  167. wullie
    Ignored
    says:

    Gordon
    Ignored says:
    4 July, 2024 at 10:23 am
    I think this quote from Alex Salmond shows that ALBA are NOT pursuing a Section 30 referendum in 2026:

    Hi Gordon
    Would you have a scource for that quote.



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