Fury Of The Phantoms
Alert readers will of course be aware that one of this site’s most frequently-recurring themes is “phantom news”, whereby events or unpleasant opinions that newspapers or broadcasters really want to have happened are conveniently brought to life, either by some random nobody on the internet, or an unnamed “source” or “insider”.
(Or in a real emergency, simply asserted with no evidence at all.)
So when Nicola Sturgeon did something today that nearly everyone in the Northern Hemisphere knew she was going to do sometime soon, but wasn’t expecting just yet, there wasn’t time to prepare actual real people with the required quotes.
In the modern media world, though, that isn’t a problem.
It started relatively innocuously in the Herald right after the First Minister’s speech:
The cowardly anonymous quote at least had its TYPE of origin specified: a “senior UK government insider”, which means next to nothing – it could be the Downing Street tealady – but is at least some sort of attribution.
Things went downhill rapidly after that.
Sky News cut to noted indy-hostile reporter Kay Burley, who breathlessly reported that “Sky sources” had told her Nicola Sturgeon had been bounced into her decision by her predecessor and others.
Again, the weasel-worded term is meaningless – Burley’s cab-driver or dog-walker would count as a “Sky source”, but their opinion as an expert on SNP internal politics would be worthless. The allegation was swiftly rubbished not only by Salmond but by other broadcast journalists.
But the bottom of the barrel was yet to be scraped.
The BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg – recently found to have broken the Corporation’s rules on impartiality over a false claim she made about Jeremy Corbyn – couldn’t even be bothered narrowing her “sources” down beyond “the entire population of planet Earth”.
Literally anyone, from Graham Norton to her pet parrot, could have been the supposed author of this alleged claim, with no possible way for anyone to verify or challenge it. The First Minister wasn’t impressed with such anonymous cobblers.
And the plague of ghosts still wasn’t over.
The Scottish Labour branch manager was quick off the mark with a claim to have been subjected to a torrent of “abuse and bile” on Twitter. The only problem was that nobody could actually find any of it.
As we write, several hours after Dugdale made the claim, neither she nor anyone else has been able to provide a single example of the alleged abuse.
It’s going to be a long campaign, folks.
well simple answer , hold them accountable via the powers devolved , no names= no shames
Aw FFS we’re not going to get that picture of Kez looking like a lost pup crying over her laptop again.. 🙁
Wee Kez there trying to pretend she’s actually relevant!
This is the one…
link to wingsoverscotland.com
The corrupt unionist media played a major part in preventing Scotland from securing a better future. Let’s make sure we don’t fall for their lies and deceit again.
We may never get a better chance to save Scotland
A guy who knows an MP’S wee brothers pal ,just told me that his wee brothers first cousins husband has heard from his Ma that Alex Salmon is a Lib Dem in private.
That is straight from the horses mouth neigh neigh
You can put your money on it .
No ?
I have just received an email from Ruth Davidson asking me to support her effort to prevent another referendum and begging for a donation towards that cause. I have replied
“Why would I want to stop it? And why would you? Are you frightened that the Scottish people will be allowed to DEMOCRATICALLY chose their own future?”
We’re gonnae need some ear defenders!
I already cannot read comments sections on this story anymore, and am going to stay away comments sections, period, over the period until the next indyref. The vile bile the English, and Scottish unionists, are throwing at the Scots now is incredible. The English seem to think that the Scots hate them, acting like some jilted lover who cares so little they’ll go on and on and on about how little they care, and then throw the most insane vitriol at the Scots.
It’s like many of them feel they have now been given free rein to say whatever hateful things they have been thinking forever, and no amount of us telling them that we hate Westminster and not the English is going to change that. So I am just not going to read any more comments sections. It’s too painfully stupid and depressing, ESPECIALLY when the angry people are Scots unionists. Pure Stockholm Syndrome madness and idiocy.
Michael Crick lying about Europe membership on Channel Four News at. 7.13
Fairly certain that Kuenssberg’s source was her neighbour’s cat whom she trusts implicitly…it’s a cool cat.
Dugdale did get a lot of abuse today…some chap called Jeremy allegedly
🙂
The pish begins indeed. However, this time around the pish is easy to spot. We are no longer novices at this.
Sky news may have been wrong footed but quickly regrouped and got NATO head to start the first ‘Scare’ of the campaign by insinuating an Indy Scotland would have to reapply to join the club again. So everyone do not lie asleep at night worrying that until then we shall simply have to fend off all those marauding despots ourselves until the Westminster and/or Donald comes to our rescue. The good news is at least that will be another few £bn’s saved. Keep faith everyone there is going to be a lot more broadsides to come.
These are habitants of Sourconia, a reclusive country which only journalists have access to. They are full of opinions but shy individuals.
MSM
and the’re off. Lying through their teeth as usual. Why don’t they just be quiet.
What has Scotland got that they need so much?
lol i did say this morning it was going to get pretty mental i think that may have been an understatement.
The funny thing was how quick Eck came out to dismiss it just in case Nicola might think it true and give him a clout around the lug.
Yoons just do not get it if anybody was pulling strings it was Nicola back in 2013/14.
The whole big John era leading into Eck was all for the one reason so that one day Nicola would face westminster.
And now they are just starting to figure out they are dealing with a politician that knows their system inside out and can use it to out smart them every time.
That today was the political equivalent of a kick in the knackers.
Day one, jeez?,
Calm voices and cool heads folks, we’ll weather the storm, and gently persuade our fellow Scots of the benefits of self I determination.
@Dave McEwan Hill
Aye, but we’ve got to remember that she is a hypocrite, and doesn’t believe in democracy.
It’s all Project Fear has but it will be subject to the law of diminishing returns. All those lies, smears and dodgy voxpops will be ultimately counter-productive.
Hear the words of a Wise Woman:
link to youtube.com
And then we win.
As I said elsewhere, the choice for Scots is simple: live in the light of an independent, progressive and prosperous country or suffer eternal Tory night.
Once the effects of Brexit are seen, this choice will become polarised and obvious.
Channel 4 ‘journalist’ Michael Crick just ‘reported’ at 7.40 a stream of wholly fictional reasons why it would be ‘impossible’ for an independent Scotland to join of stay Europe according to Sturgeon’s timetable
Oops that might have been me. I sent her and Ruth Davidson a link to the song “no,no,no, you don’t love me and i know now.” Sorry!
Phantom news,Fake news,whatever you call it,the Establishment media promote the Establishment’s agenda using Establishment stooges.
Truth and balance are of no consequence to them.
Viva Wings !
Sources have revealed that in event of a No vote then EVEL2 will be announced the following day.
How did Ms Dugdale have a “first official day of indyref2” at 7:15am?!!
Is that a silhouette of Gorgeous George with his fedora and the big red eyes.. Get a load of this trumpet..
link to twitter.com
I feel I have been personally abused over and over by both the BBC and Sky News today.
My TV was almost subject to violent physical trauma as report after report after report strangled the truth and gave voice to everything from spin waffle wishful thinking disinformation misinformation propaganda and bare faced wilful lying.
I have now vowed to get any and all news regarding Indyref 2 via RT Al Jezeera or online.
I stopped reading print media in 2012. I haven’t purchased or picked up a single printed tabloid rag since.
Fuck you UK media Just Fuck you.
And so it continues lies from the press and bettertogeher 2 will and have on BBC Scotland news given theor tuppence worth.
Fluffy Mundell outraged but good on Glenn Campbell getting him to agree a 2nd Independence referendum would not be blocked.
They know they cannot or calls for UDI would follow.
Does Dugdale think party politics are not divisive? If they are, should we eschew them? Maybe ban football as it’s too divisive? Or how about marmite?
Not interested in opinion polls ran by media companies regarding whether there should be a referendum. These was a much larger one in 2016 and it returned a majority of MSP’s that support one.
The majority of people in Scotland voted for parties that didn’t want an EU referendum but we still had one.
Michael Crick of Channel 4 news should hang his head in shame. Tonight on Channel 4 news, he had a little tirade on camera, in which he uttered the biggest pack of demonstrable lies we have heard since the famous Nick Robinson (BBC) lying incident in 2014.
In his rant, he stated Scotland would;
1. Need to join the end of the Queue
2. Would be forced to use the Euro.
3. Would have its membership opposed by Spain,
Amongst many others.
For the record Michael Crick of Channel 4 news, all three listed above are simply not true, and as a political reporter, I do not for one second think you do not know they are completely untrue. So, either you are utterly incompetent in your job (for not knowing they are untrue) or you are a liar.
Which is it??
Just the same old LIES we heard in 2014 yet again.
Just to address those points;
1. Their is no ‘queue’ to join the EU. Countries join in any order once they meet necessary criteria. Scotland already complies with almost every single one of them, as it has been in the EU for over forty years.
2. NO country can be forced to join the Euro. To join the Euro, a country must first join the EU exchange rate mechanism for two years, then meet key economic convergence criteria, before they can even be considered for the Euro. To suggest an independent Scotland would be forced to use the Euro is not only a complete lie, it is actually just stupid.
3. The ruling party of Spain only this week yet again stated that it would not oppose an independent Scotland in the EU. They also stated that they view the matter of Catalonia as completely different to that of Scotland. This was widely reported this week within the UK and across the EU. For somebody like Michael crick of Channel 4 news to state this bare faced lie again, is shameful.
LINK link to wingsoverscotland.com
Does anyone know how to contact Global (owners of Classic FM etc,) to complain that its news bulletins are telling us that in 2014, “nearly two-thirds” of voters voted No?
When I was in school, two-thirds = 66% NOT 55%
The spin has started.
I can’t find a phone number anywhere.
jfngw @ 7:28pm.
Not EVEL2 – it will be EVAL (English Votes All Laws)!
Aye, they’re all lining up against Scotland on LBC radio tish now with Farage.
The recurring theme is that Nicola (Scotland) “hate the English!”
WRONG. It’s your government that we all loathe. End of. Period.
I bet they couldn’t give one example to back up their claims.
The fury unleashed!
Sources say that I’m a wonderful lover with a huge willy.
Sources don’t half talk a load of shite.
Why is it that when K. Dugdale is giving an interview I feel she is pitching it more at my 3 year old grandson rather than me.
@Mike 7:31
I wouldnt bother with RT, unless youre a fan of George Galloway and Brian Wilson.
As others saying, Michael Crick on channel 4 news there, what a disgrace. That needs taken apart (and complained about). His ‘sources’ must be the BTL commenteers on the BBC website.
Just seen someone who looks like Wayne Sleep(think it was Katie Hoey)on Sky News persist with the ‘Salmond made Sturgeon do it’ white,also said SNP don’t have a mandate rubbish.
Strangers to truth or thick.Take your pick.
Britnats going crazy. Headless chickens… gutless chickens… by tonight probably legless chickens.
Sources say that I’m 18 when they should be going to an optician.
Game on
link to youtube.com
Is it just me or is Dugdale a wee bit sensitive? Maybe she looked over her own comments and decided they were abusive having been persuaded by Nicola’s speach?
One makes it up and the others report it. This is our media.
Hi Guys
As a long time reader but non contributor i felt after the news today i just had to donate to the fighting fund .
Although not really surprised at the reaction of the media today i must say i was shocked of the responses of some work mates today , mostly along the lines of too wee too poor etc .
Asked a few questions they could not answer so going in armed with the wee black books tomorrow.
Don’t think i could cope with another No vote
Really feel its now or never
[…] Wings Over Scotland Fury Of The Phantoms Alert readers will of course know that one of this site’s most frequently-recurring […]
Just donated £100 at link to ref.scot
Pleased wi’ masel
Ive just heard that the Indyref 2 postal vote results look grim.
The MSM are too used to picking up a phone and having the news fed to them from their ‘sources’ (usually someone with an agenda).
Investigative journalism is almost a lost art, it seems.
Sources inform me that the Indyref 2 postal vote is looking grim.
@ Mike
Just switch off the old radiation subliminal frequency box Mike,you will feel better for it.
Mine has been in the spare room unplugged since 2014 i do not miss it if i want to see something on UK tv i use kodi.
Sod them lol 🙂
I cannot believe Nicolas referendum fund is now at £125,000.
https://www.ref.scot
Well done everyone who has already donated.
I think that what all yessers and those of us who think #scotref is a brilliant thing should do is just not rise to any bait at all. Stay quiet let the MSM and EBC etc go red in their multifaceted faces by not getting any tweets, FB’s, or letters etc from us. When they have exhausted themselves and are reduced to unintelligable heavy breathing THEN we attack with everything and everyone we have!!!
Nasty aren’t I? But that would be such fun!!! Let them spew their rubbish and lies and wonder what the actual F*** is going on when all they here from us is silence!!
They are going to use up all their lies long before we get to the vote!
They just can’t keep this up for 18months.
When someone sees through all the lies, they can’t unsee it. And with each day more and more will realise the media and their political lackies are peddling nonsense.
Project Fear did impact on IndyRef1 but even then, it’s effectiveness was wearing thin. By ScotRef day, it will be seen by most as Project Talking Utter Shite!
Ooops sorry! That last sentence ”here” should be hear!!
A friend of a mate, said his wife’s sisters father-in-law, heard through a source that it’s all the fault of Nicola Sturgeon.
So it must be true.
Project smear part 2. Will they never learn. Heard that Massie bam saying on Channel 4 that project fear worked with smile.
How someone with any morals could think that basing a union on fear is justifiable. Is just utter madness.
The only source Kuenssberg should concern herself with is the PRIMARY source i.e. Nicola Sturgeon. Had she taken the time to actually LISTEN to the words spoken by the PRIMARY source she would have known that all her SECONDARY sources were speaking a pile of steaming keech. But, of course, the PRIMARY source didn’t say what Kuenssberg wanted so was ‘ignored’ in preference of the keech.
Get ready for the polished Turd Mayhem is about to lob back over the wall in our direction .
It will start with while we respect the views of the Scottish people , then the usual drivel will be added to make us feel wanted , then will come the but .
the short version is YER NO GETTIN ONE SO SHUT THE F/k UP .
well chaps what do we do then ? shes arrogant and mad enough to do it . Any ideas of what next .
Did Dugdale really think no-one would check?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Nigel Farage? says ” Nicola Sturgeon would lose a second independence referendum big time.” And he is not the only one making such claims.
This contest begins ~50:50
Over the next 18months Brexit is going wreak havoc and become a harbinger of even worse to come!
Whatever makes them think they can roll back YES support?
I think the sheer absolute straw-grabbing panic we have seen today from Yoonery tells us how they really think things will pan out for them!
There’s an option to make your donation into a direct debit on the donate page, so if everyone can pledge as little as a fiver a month to the campaign coffers, we’ll having a real fightin’ fund all the way through…looking forward to this fund smashing a million quid in lesss than 10 days…that’s ma prediction…
link to ref.scot
Goodness, reading comments here about the anti Scottish, anti SNP, anti Nicola Sturgeon message being fed into peoples’ living rooms today and tonight, anyone would think that Scotland mattered. Hmm, so, not just your wee insignificant too stupid country then. N.Sturgeon has the measure of things, she knew that a big stramash would ensue, in the yoon media.
Well Tereza, you underestimate the people of Scotland, the people who have made Scotland their home, the people who do not, and have not voted for your destructive, backward, dangerous political game playing.
May has said that N.Sturgeon is playing games. May, has revealed her own inadequacy, and her party’s incompetence, everyone can see that she is the one playing games here. No thanks, T.May, we are looking forwards and outward, not inward, not backwards, but looking at a grown up, 21st century future. You can carry on dear, with your backward, destructive, insular mindset.
Scotland will pursue her own positive, life affirming future, and if ScotRef is the only way to do that, then so be it.
England, get your act together, and stop blaming others for your governments terrible failures.
Look at yourselves, and get your own house in order.
Ive just had an epiphany.
We should encourage the 3 million EU residents within the UK to move to Scotland in time for the Indyref vote.
We’re at 47-49% with all this shit being thrown at us.
Calm down.
We have a solid 45% who are not going anywhere other than Yes regardless of the yoon shite.
Beat that as a baseline.
I thought you had to be intelligent to be a journalist,but Micheal Crick is either thick or a mendacious liar .
“WE CAN’T FUCKING JOIN OR BE FORCED TO JOIN THE EURO”
So projectfear2 is up and away.
Lets try scaring some pensioners folks.
Will the Tories get rid of Scottish Lords?
1. Reduce members in Lords
2. Save costs £300 per day per Lord.
3. “Jock” Lords voting on English laws. Not on old bean.
4. Reduce the bar bill of some ever thirsty Lord.
The more I hear media voices claim Nicola Sturgeon hates the English, the more I wonder what kind of self-projection is going on. The only statistically proven hate from the last few years is the hate of British people for foreigners.
They just can’t help themselves.
link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
Complain to Channel four about Michael Crick here is the form.
link to channel4.com
It’s going to be a long campaign and we need to nip these lies in the bud now!
A wee musical interlude…
This song sums up the kind of day I’ve had today. In the lyrics, “you” is (obviously!) Nicola.
BTW: a wee bit of trivia… As far as I know, the holding of a note for 17 seconds in the song is a record that hasn’t been beaten.
link to youtube.com
Harry Mcaye at 7.43, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA, now that is Scottish humour!!!!!!!!
This is funny.
And I’ve got enough dummies spat out and piled up on my doorstep now I’m going to have to get a 55 tonne double-trailer truck to come and pick them up to give to charity. It’s going to take approximately 10,000 litres of sterilinsg fluid to clean them up first 🙁
Some of them broke the sound barrier all the way up from Westminster!
See me…
I’m so laid back about this all, I’m horizontal 😀
Been there, seen it, heard it, done it so NOTHING is going to upset my day!
Met friends today, wryly talked of the media. They can GTF ‘coz we will do this OUR WAY!
OUR FUTURE…WE DECIDE 🙂 🙂 🙂
Amazed at how fast unionist media fall into the category of complete imbeciles. They attend a news conference and hear some news from the First Minister. Collective media brain cell goes into brainfud explosion mode!
Caught a glimpse of some brainfud on SKY, Ed Conway, starting the SKY News diatribe about currency *BORING* E.U. *BORING* …switched over!
Boy the paper reviews on BBC and SKY are gonna be hilarious tonight folks! I just hope my keyboard will be able to:
a) keep up
b) stand the hammering it is about to suffer tonight. 😀
Sorry but I posted this up on the earlier thread but now we have this thread I think it is well worth re-posting. Unionist anti Scottish independence media types throughout today. 😀
link to youtube.com
Channel 4 complaints number 03450760191
Thanks for link to https://www.ref.scot
Listening to the likes of Kate Hoey saying things like we will not get into the EU or that we will be forced to use the Euro in spite of Sweden demonstrating you do not,just makes me feel we will win against this stupidity.
The NATO SecGen also must have a look at a map and see how strategically important Scotland is.Tongue in cheek I have said other Alliances are available but the reality is NATO will be begging us on bended knees to rejoin if they were ever daft enough to let us leave.
I feel ScotRef this time round is much more hopeful and it is not oldies like me that gives me that hope but the under 60’s. Feel the surge of hope over fear!
When Nicola goes the Scottish parliament for permission it would be funny if Kezza pressed the wrong button again and the proposal is carried by her vote
Any electricians out there up for a laugh
ROBBO says:
13 March, 2017 at 7:19 pm
Sky news may have been wrong footed but quickly regrouped and got NATO head to start the first ‘Scare’ of the campaign by insinuating an Indy Scotland would have to reapply to join the club again.
As usual Robbo SKY go off half cocked.
They seem to forget that an independent Scotland would be the BIG deal … *UH UH!* NATO using OUR waters and OUR bombing and firing would be the BIG deal. If memory serves me right there is an island just North of Cape Wrath that NATO use for bombing practice. I wonder how NATO will manage WITHOUT the use of this range. More over we have a large swathe of water that would be outwith NATO coverage I wonder how Uncle Sam and co. will take that information. Apparently the “Norwegian Gap” is a BIG issue for Uncle Sam, talk about making problems for themselves! 😀
feel quite calm at all the mud/lies thrown
They’ve peaked too early.
All these lies can be easily debunked but it’s getting info out to folk who don’t use social media.
I’ve resolved not to get involved in any arguments, just post info showing their rubbish is wrong, then mute
As I write groups of desperate Yoons are locked away in E cig steam filled rooms holding workshos to write Project Fear 2.Kuenssberg, Settle, Roden, McTernan, Brewer, McDougall, and the entire MSM will be up all night churning out the response to the Caledonia spring Uprising.
Michael Crick, you should be ashamed of yourself.
(I know that you lot read WoS and WGD.)
Isn’t Jon Snow’s son a historian who is married to a Scottish Noble Land owner’s daughter? Isn’t channel 4 owned by the BBC?
Do not ak for whom the bell tolls, ye dead tree scrollers. It tolls for thee.
What happened to journalists seeking truth.
30 pieces of silver hacks now.
“Sinn Fein has said there is an urgent need for a referendum on Irish unity as the British government has “refused to listen” to the majority of people in Northern Ireland over Brexit.”
link to scotsman.com
This changes the whole game.
Actually folks by their twisted logic the fact that lies and smears brought them a victory last time would indicate that more of the same will bring a similar result.
It’s up to Yessers to prove them wrong.
Remember how much effect their negativity had last time, we can use that along with all the lies they told to Scotlands good this time!
I am sorry I visited the Spectator site – the ignorance , arrogance and downright foulness on display from our ‘tolerant neighbours ‘ has left me thinking that a bunch of cretins fulminate ad nauseam on Scotland , the SNP , the Independence supporters, Mr Salmond and Ms Sturgeon.
Whatever happened to ‘ education , education ,education ‘ ?
It seems to have by passed those windae lickers south of the border.
I hope someone is keeping a record of the charm and tolerance displayed by our nearest neighbours.
The outpouring of rage and hate that I’ve seen online today in response to Nicola Sturgeon is quite astonishing. The lies from the MSM too, especially that guy on C4 news who went into a big rant not one iota of which was true.
Good luck Scotland, it would be wonderful to see you rejoin the nations of the world, flag flying at the UN our Gaelic cousins back where they belong. You face an uphill battle with the might of the BBC and other organs of state (including the secret state??) opposing you. The propaganda is from watching the BBC unrelenting from example neil oliver’s ‘capital of ancient britain’ programme hammering home anti-historical BS.
I love this. May cannot now hold a snap election to give her a legitimate mandate as leader. She will not risk it now so close to Brexit.
She as the Spectator suggests could ask for proof of legitimacy for a referendum in elections in 2020 to prove the will of the Scottish people. This however carries enormous political risks. How can a Prime Minister with no mandate herself from the electorate insist that the SNP requires something she does not have herself.
They are busy at the drawing board trying to construct a way out. You really have to wonder about our true worth when they use every scheme in the book of dirty tricks to keep us.
It may be more about our potential worth as a member of the EU than our current situation. We would be in a position England could not compete with.
Re Michael Crick and his stupidity and lie-telling. I don’t see Channel 4 News doing anything other than a whitewash job on complaints.
They are an arrogant, London-based outfit, as such, they are agin us, and will ignore our complaints. And, never forget – Channel 4 News is where Sarah Smith started.
Slightly off-topic. A long-standing journalist friend of mine spent many years with the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser. He lived close to Fran and Anna, so,he was always presented with the ladies’ latest record to review for the paper.
He has always maintained Fran and Anna genuinely thought they had talent and were good singers – just as today’s Fran and Anna of Scottish politics – Ruth and Kezia are harbouring the misapprehension that they have political talent, and good at their jobs and are relevant. Aye Right!!
They will be dangerous in the coming months. They are now so-wedded to London orders and opinion, when Scotland is independent, as far as their parties are concerned, they will be toast. They will use every dirty trick they can to hang onto their jobs, and keep Scotland in the UK. Because, in an independent Scotland, if there are truly Scottish Labour and Tory parties, those who were London’s people in pre-independence Scotland will be replaced.
Greetings from Tasmania.
Wonderful news that Nicola has started the ball rolling on new referendum on Independence for Scotland.
Surely this time we must succeed.
Already over here the main news is only interviewing London sources. I will certainly do my best to “educate” people to search beyond that and let them know about wonderful sources of information like Wings Over Scotland. I think the Scottish people must be wiser this time around and certainly Stuart is working very hard on his part. It needs us all.
Very Best Wishes to a successful outcome 2018/19.
Tomorrow’s britnat newspaper headlines are going to be hysterical.
Sillars shaming himself on RT
Thanks to Joe Carroll and Mary Miles. Good to know you’re on our side.
So first up we have Nicola Sturgeon yanking the rug from under Mayhem’s feet.
Now Mayhem has to fight TWO battles on TWO fronts pretty much at the same time.
Mayhem can no longer, realistically, “claim” to represent a “united” Britain.
Then, just to add to Mayhem’s problems, not that you’ll hear much I suspect, from the BBC SKY or any other unionist media outlet, is the news that moves appear to be beginning to form to re-unite North and South Ireland. The result of this wee gem is, in my view, an INCREASE in battles to be fought by Mayhem from TWO to THREE! 😀
link to irishtimes.com
Gerry at 8:59
We only need Gibraltar to get the boot in to make the day complete. Perhaps we could invite them to join us as a Scottish Overseas Territory so they could stay in the EU. Don’t know what they would do with the naval dockyard though.
Yoonitariat appear to be in a bit of a lather. Amazing what being caught with your collective bums hingin’ oot the widae does for your calm. 🙂
Speaking of which, calm and steady folks. Dot the ‘i’ and cross the ‘t’ approach. The onus is on Westminster and their response. Give them the length of rope they require, break oot the popcorn and let the meeja go into meltdown trying to square circles.
PM May’s negotiating hand going into EU talks has just been weakened considerably. That should focus some minds. 🙂
Oh and Mr Gethins on SKY today? Well done.
The same old lies from the MSM won’t work this time. Once Article 50 is called we’ll also have the support of our many friends in the EU.
We might be reading this all wrong, ie the right wing, media, political establishment have been well versed and well prepared. Their anti Scottish, anti Scotland, hate fest is working just fine and dandy. Demonise a person, a country, a political party, usually more left leaning, and job done.
Shit sticks.
So brain washing already almost done, you have your enemy, someone else, closer to home to blame. Scary stuff.
My dad fought in Malayia, he said that the only way they could really fight was by being brain washed, being told that the innocent, ie anyone, was your enemy, and to therefore silence and kill them.
Shh, they were not that daft, sometimes the abusive officers came a cropper, deep dark long way from home jungle, you see. Hm.
Frm the HoL/HoC: “That’s no excuse, ladies and gentleman, for a decision based on the third reading of the Daily Mail“.
I hope she moves to Scotland, I like her humour. And reality.
In the Independent today it quotes Margaritis Schinas the EU`s chief spokesperson saying that Scotland would have to go to the back of the queue if it wished to join the EU and said that the Barroso“ doctrine would apply“.
It also quotes the Nato`s secretary -general Jens Stoltenberg that membership to Nato was “not automatic“.
IF and I say if this is true what the #’@> is going on here. Scotland is an ancient democratic and stable western country so why would it be treated in this way.
It also highlights the “plunging oil price “and its effect on an independent Scotland.
We really need to star fighting fire with fire as the MSM are going all out to crush indy2.
Having listened to the anti-indy guff on the BBC Radio 4 News tonight (absolutely no chance of indy ref in the FM’s timeframe; Spanish veto on membership; economic case so much weaker etc., etc.) with despair but with no surprise, I watched the Channel 4 News, as I do regularly, to get some grown-up, balanced reporting and comment. How wrong I was: amazed and so very disappointed at Crick’s ‘mis-reporting’ – to put it very kindly.
If even C4 is going to behave like this, we need to think very hard about how best to mount an effective, ongoing rebuttal process and hope that the Yes campaigners that get media exposure work to re-frame the issues and get us on to the front foot.
Robert Louis @7.37pm I hope your excellent summary of Crick’s misreporting will form the core of a formal complaint to C4.
I just find it fucking hilarious how terrified these twats are of IndyRef2… heaven forbid people might have actually changed their minds and vote YES this time.
And Kezia Dugdale… There are no words in the dictionary that would describe how stupid that woman is – does she think using the word “divisive” on a daily basis I.E. 100x+ a day will brainwash people?
I have never understood the sense in using this word to describe anything in politics, since politics in itself IS divisive. Someone give her a real job. Pretty sure I saw Lidl advertising for people. She should apply.
Just a wee update to my post about NATO.
link to independent.co.uk
link to twitter.com
I hope the Yes side are not going to fall back into the trap of spending all our time chasing around trying to come up with answers to the barrage of stupid accusations and endless, he said, she said shite!
We need to ignore the nonsense and create our own narrative. Alex should perhaps have let that one go?
The sun was shining down today as the FM made her joyous announcement so expect a barrage of faux outrage at the temerity of Scotland seeking self -determination.
Remove the word ‘independence’ which seems to trigger extreme hostility and angst in those who still rate the Union and all that’s left to fret about is a country (Scotland is a country) that wants control of its economy, maintain its state institutions, become energy self-sufficient, progress its society, remain an internationalised outward looking nation in a globalised world. Those are normal aspirations for any country and Scotland is no different in that respect.
However Scotland sees itself is all about perspective but expect a rerun (it’s already begun) of Project Fear that will soon discover that Scotland is not the same, adapting and evolving as it travels peacefully towards its rightful destination.
So, expect a lacklustre campaign from ‘Better Together ad infinitum’ of blustering, rehashed threats and negative comments because there is now no convincing argument for Scotland to remain in the UK. It’s also clear that there is a democratic deficit that can never be bridged and Scotland is now fighting for the heart and soul of its democracy. WM is on a permanent war footing-fighting democracy.
‘We do not receive wisdom, we must discover it ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one can make for us, which no one can spare us’ Marcel Proust
stewartb
We need to start complaining now about TV and Radio broadcasters bias, lack of balance and misreporting including their London based news reviews / Politics Now progs.
Put markers down now before its too late although not much we can do about newspapers other than tweet objections.
Could try letters but no guarantee they will be published.
They are so angry and stupid, they don’t realise they are pissing so many Scots off, that money is flying into the SNP’s coffers like it’s went out of fashion!
Keep annoying folk, you lovely daft gits, and we will probably have our million by this time Wednesday!
I have made a complaint to Channel 4 News and challenged Michael Crick to do the research and come back on to correct his mistakes. Some hope!
@Arbroath1320
What an idiot that Lindsay Bruce Rogue Coder is, he got it totally wrong.
It won’t be the GIUK gap it will be the GIS gap 🙂
Mmmmmmmm, enjoying my other tab. Put Scotland into google, tap on the map, click back that stupid LHS tab, and zoom out.
Just sit back and enjoy Scotland ringed in red on mine, taking our place in the Northern hemisphere. It looks huge!
Onyways, wot I posted eleewhere about the NATO thing.
But as for NATO, formal application would presumably have to be made, and NATO would have to put in place a Membership Action Plan for Scotland, but I’d think this would effectively be within NATO. The reason? Just put Scotland into google, centre and zoom out. The GIUK gap becomes the GIS gap, mostly.
Before the Ref there’ll be bluster all over the place and ex-SGs and even a relatively cautious current one will be wheeled out to make some quotes and then be mis-quoted all over the media. Same as before!
But after the Ref it will be very different. NATO without Scotland? I don’t think so.
Re;Macart@9.29
A calming voice amid the yoonetariat storm, thanks. 🙂
The Yoon frenzy is remarkable in its thrashing around How dare she not be bluffing!
I see no evidence of the supposed positive case for the Union. just the same Project Fear drivel as last time only with brass knobs on…really nasty some of it too. I feel strangely unmoved by it. it is like looking at a painting by numbers. Even if you know nothing about art you can see it is not a Rembrandt.
If the EU make any positive noises about Scotland being in the EU stand by your beds for Brexiteer heads exploding. They don’t want to be in the EU but they think they have some God given right to dictate who the EU should let in and under what terms….pompous twits.
When you have Farage, Boris, Theresa, Fox, Gove, History Woman, Spanner, BBC, The Express, Guardian, Mail, the EDL, NF, Scotland in Union, and all the rest lining up to slag off and belittle my country, then the Unionists are quite right:- It does create division.
If there was no sense of division, then this embarrassment of eejits would be foaming at the mouth on “our” side.
Quite frankly, a good bit more division between “us” and “them” sounds just the ticket….
Sinky @9.51pm
I’ve been complaining to the BBC and less frequently to C4 News for some time – of course to no avail. OK no reason to give up – to continue to be small thorns – but wonder if rather than just complaining, in any complaint I should now include more substantive ‘rebuttal’ information content. Don’t know – much to ponder, and now with an even clearer purpose.
I’m already in trouble off the wife for shouting at the TV when Crick was on. The swearies got worse when Davidson and Dugdale came on. I am avoiding the Times and Observer until 2019 because I’m worried I won’t keep it civil any more.
yesindyref2
After the ref of course it will be different, if we win. Its 50/50 at the moment and we haven`t got any slack to play with. Negative statements from the EU and Nato WILL have an effect during the campaign and will have to be countered somehow.
Complacency is our worst enemy.
@McDuff
Absolutely, and I’d say the next 7 days are very important ones to get out there and counter the lies and the guff before it has time to take hold.
A key thing we should be saying is “Don’t believe what you read or see in the media, check it out yourself, and keep an open mind”.
Expect Crash “the fist” Broon to be seen shortly rocking side to side like a demented baboon shouting “Turbo charged austerity”
Looks like they have their new project fear!!
As for the “once in a generation” bollocks, what about EVEL? that was NEVER mentioned in the 2014 Indy Ref.
Yoon trolls get over yourselves, it’s coming.
The empire has had plenty of time since the Brexit vote and have totally ignored the Scottish Government, equal family of nations? FU*K OFF.
We won’t get fooled again.
I really get fed up with the constant: ‘You’ll have to use the Euro’ that is a constant refrain from the No side.
An independent Scotland would probably have to agree to adopt the Euro. That does not mean that I Scotland agrees to adopt it on the Tuesday and starts using it on the Wednesday which is the impression the No side tries to foster at every turn.
Firstly, there are criteria Scotland would have to meet and that takes time.
Secondly, the process of adoption can be halted/postponed by a country if that country feels it is in their interests to do so. See the extract from Wikipedia below. Hungary is just one example of a country that has delayed adoption.
Thirdly, would adopting the Euro, if we met the criteria, be bad for Scotland?– see the comment in the quote about Hungary from Wikipedia about it increasing inward investment.
“”While the Hungarian government has been planning since 2003 to replace the Hungarian forint with the euro, as of 2014, there is no target date and the forint is not part of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM II). An economic study in 2008 has found that the adoption of the euro would increase foreign investment in Hungary by 30%,[1]although current governor of the Hungarian National Bank (MNB) and former Minister of the National Economy György Matolcsy said they did not want to give up the country’s independence regarding corporate tax matters.””” Wikipedia
To be fair yes it is the GIUK gap for now and will remain so until after independence. The point he, and I, were trying to make is that uncle Sam is quite concerned about this gap and with Scotland out of NATO they will have fewer options from where to operate from. My understanding is they would have to operate from Norway, who prohibit nuke armed/nuke powered ships in their waters. It will only become the GIS gap after we are an independent country.
As far as NATO is concerned Yes I’m not convinced OUR application to join will be as straight forward as the Yoons think. If I recall at the SNP conference a few years ago when the held the vote about NATO it was rather tight. With all the sabre rattling of NATO against Russia in the past six months or so I am not convinced a repeat vote would win. Neither am I convinced by the that a vote in Holyrood would win support any longer.
The fundamental problem here is that somehow the Tories have got it into their heads that they speak for the whole UK. I know that sounds ridiculous but that does seem to be what they believe.
They speak for England, yes. Also, we all know in South Britain there is a degree of confusion about the difference between England and the UK. Therein probably lies the explanation for the Tories’ brass neck of acting like a mandated UK government.
Today they were given a sharp reminder that they do not and cannot speak for Scotland.
One big reason the yoon MSM has gone apeshit, IMO, is that they really did not expect NS to make her move this week. “She wouldn’t dare”, they thought. “She can’t” they thought. “She’s bluffing”, they thought. “Maybe in a few weeks after Article 50”, they thought. “Maybe at the SNP conference next week” they thought.
Well, she could and she did. And they don’t have a clue how to respond (apart from the usual Howling of the Yoon. She has wrong-footed the lot of them, pulled the rug from under Mayhem’s feet. No doubt the yoons will get their little act together, but too late. Mayhem’s timing for a BREXIT spectacular has been utterly destroyed. Nicola has played a blinder. My, how the midnight oil will be burning tonight. My heart bleeds. 🙂
It’s very simple if WM tries to block this. Holyrood goes on strike and SNP resign and call a Scottish election. They win that on a ticket of independence and just declare it.
Indeed this is how we joined the common market. Which is why wm will not block it.
They know the young couldn’t win a Scottish election and anger would push the SNP vote up.
Only thing they might do is try and force the referendum to April 19. Can’t see them getting away with that. I still think it will be Sept 18.
Here are a couple of links that may help explain your post Ledgerwood.
link to ecb.europa.eu
link to ec.europa.eu
Just how stupid do they think we are.
Delaying the referendum until after the UK has officially left the EU really doesn’t suit me.
The obvious aim might be to make it impossible for a near seamless transition from being a part of an EU member to one in our own right and thus make the case for independence harder. However it’s even more devious if not outright cynical.
If Scotland is no longer part of the EU that means EU citizens who were denied a say in the EU referendum will be denied a vote in a referendum that losing might mean they would no longer be guaranteed the right to remain in a country where the have put down roots and made a life for themselves.
Fuck that, we’re not falling for that crap.
As an indyref2 campaign warm up exercise –
if you know any no voting pensioners, just direct them here.
link to archive.is
Project Feardie strikes again!
No, you can’t join NATO.
OK then, the first invader to storm our land will have immediate access to your nuclear subs and armaments depot at Coulport How’s that then ?
They may just obey the English border ,but you never know.
If Nicola Sturgeon plays the choice card as the main point, she’s going to have to leave the indy vote till as late in the day in the brexit timetable, otherwise her argument won’t hold up.
So it looks more like Feb/Mar 2019?
Just donated £50 to the indy ref fund.
link to ref.scot
Now would be a good time for other indy groups to start crowdfunding too
I’m not able to actively campaign but more than happy to provide financial support to help those who can.
Iain MacWhirter is on R5 right now.
Tomorrow’s (tuesday)papers will be UK Fake News Day.
@ Arbroath1320
I think we should leave NATO but join with all the North European nations in a shared maritime defense force of the gap,and that includes the British/English forces,if they are still not sulking about us leaving.
Though like Norway we should ban all nuke warships and subs in our waters,though the reality is we can not stop the USA and Russia from parking up their WMD`s at the bottom of the North Sea and Atlantic,but we can stop them being next to one of our major population centers or in our country.
And anyway i hear those Russian sailors like a good beer we could persuade them to leave the nuke boats at home and come for a pint and a few whiskys,they can bring the Stolichnaya Vodka 😉
The First Minister of Scotland has asked Westminster for permission to hold an independence referendum.
Robert Peffers, haven’t you been shouting from the rooftops that Scotland does not need Westminster’s permission to hold an independence referendum?
What should the First Minister do if Westminster refuses permission to hold a referendum on the timescale she wants to?
I see all the ill informed stuff re you will have to join the Euro etc has surged today. All those kippers and other tories are raging about something.
Just watching Reporting Scotland, quite amazing. Thought Kuessenberg earlier on was fair enough, Eardley I like anyway, but they had Mundell doing his not could but should thing, quick flash and there he was again, flapping like a penguin, doing the same again. They really made a fool of him. Even the Kirkcaldy interviews earlier were quite balanced I thought, and current ones seem OK.
Interesting. The worm turns perhaps, and who knows, the BBC is misreporting Scotland billboard campaign might well have done its job.
From Mhairi Hunter on Twitter:
Honestly this “economic uncertainty” line from people – whether Tory or Labour – who have accepted the hardest Brexit possible is amazing.
Ronnie Anderson
The Times is reporting that TMay is considering refusing permission…
Can you shed any more light on this comment you made yesterday?
Nicola’s playing a blinder with the section 30 order to entice Teresa May into blocking it . Nicola is just playing the convention card , she knows fine well that the Scottish Gov can declare a Referendem & that has been confirmed by Charles Livingstone of Brodie’s LLb (Scottish Gov legal advisors).
Apparently the pound has risen since Nicola made her speech this morning…
@Training Day says: 13 March, 2017 at 7:33 pm:
“Does Dugdale think party politics are not divisive? If they are, should we eschew them? Maybe ban football as it’s too divisive? Or how about marmite?”
Aw! Cummoan! Training Day, Yon’s no fair, Efter aa yon Marmite really is divisive stuff, so it is.
BBC Newsnight with two British Nats debating Scottish Indy. Some balance
I’ll bet that Ruth and Kezia are sitting at home tonight wondering about the future. I’ll bet they are not as confident as they try to pretend.
You only had to watch the interviews with David Mundell earlier this evening and see a rabbit standing in front of car headlights. His face betrayed what we already knew
– That Scotland has a legitimate claim to a 2nd Referendum
– That the Tories are making a complete dog’s dinner of Brexit
– That they might not have control over a Referendum date
– That they have no idea what is going to happen with Article 50
– That they have no idea what their trading position is going to be within a brave new world
– That they have spectacularly divided England right down the middle …let alone damaged relations with every other home nation
– That there is going to be one very upset and irate Monarch who has seen the Empire end on her watch without needing to see the breakup of the United Kingdom, let alone completely alienating her Commonwealth thanks to the insulting concept of Empire 2.0.
It’s a complete and utter mess. And stating that Scotland seeking independence is only making things worse for the UK is utterly laughable. Offers were put down on the table by the Scottish government and Theresa cast them to one side in utter contempt. What does Scotland have to do to gain this godawful Prime Minister’s respect? Kezia, Ruth and wee Willie will find that the derision towards them will grow over the next few months …simply because they are not offering any vision of the future, except that we must remain in the UK as it nosedives into the ground. They forget that they are here to serve the Scottish people in Holyrood …not fight for the UK State. They are not members of Westminster!
When the boat is going down or the house is going up in flames …you don’t sit around and pretend that ‘it’s going to be all right really’. When you can see that the writing is on the wall …you get out fast!!
Gisela Stewart describing the UK union as one that actually works. She must have stayed in all day without internet, TV or radio.
If Scotland is truly such an economic burden (as we are continually reminded), why do certain people in England get so hot under the collar about events such as today? Why get so angry? Surely England can only benefit from off-loading Scotland, just as it obviously will do when it disconnects from Europe.
Or am I missing something?
So if Scotland wasn’t in a NATO that is hostile to us, we can then use the mandatory Trump payment of 2% of GDP on building our own economy and not on England’s defence.
How about Scotland suggests that we tow their share of nuclear subs down to the Thames on the day after the referendum, and we sell our share of the subs and missiles to Russia.
How about this to warm Westminster hearts, Scotland could offer Russian ships use of our docks for refuelling.
We could give them permission to patrol Scottish waters the ones that England cannot be bothered to protect.
Maybe they would like to buy one of our uninhabited Islands
so that they can watch England more closely and even protect Scotland from any Westminster attack.
Stick that soon to be empty oil & water pipe Westminster.
Are we in Scotland in Danger from Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan? Who is it that is coming to invade us???
Perhaps an invader would give Scotland a greater share of its own revenue and have some degree of respect for us?
Doubt they could steal more, from us or have less respect for us than Westminster.
Time to get back on the Indy road again.
Good to be back on Wings again.
caz_m (11:07pm)
Good to see you back, and not before time.
😉
@Ian Brotherhood
I’m listening to McWhirt and he’s doing OK so far. He quoted his EU source re Scotland getting in but the BBC 5 guy couldn’t.
Oh Morag from Dundee just on ‘my hero’ 🙂
There some people on TV tonight who really need to practice relaxation techniques for the sake of their health.
*practise
10.53 Ahh Rock appears from under a …..
What’s your campaign strategy rock? Cancel all Indy ref papers?
If May says no to a referendum. Hold it anyway.
Residence rights > 5 years .
No holiday home owners
Remember Michelle Mone or she will leave the country oops she’s done that already
@feel_loon says: 13 March, 2017 at 7:56 pm:
“Hi Guys
As a long time reader but non contributor i felt after the news today i just had to donate to the fighting fund .
So, feel_loonm Hi, yersel, but why have you been so long before commenting? It’s always good to get other perspectives from other than the same gadgies every day.
Go on Morag you tell them! Treaty of the Union equal partners!
Trying to shut her down. Jason says Sturgeon embarrassing Scotland.
Morag puts Jason right. Well done Morag!
What a day
Faslane – with the unionists going to privatise the security at Faslane. Give an undertaking now that all defence forces at navy base will remain public.
As far as I’m concerned IF, and it is a HUGE “if” , Mayhem DOES refuse us permission then I think she will have to answer to the U.N.
link to un.org
I believe that article 2 brings everything into sharp focus regarding Mayhem and her refusing us our undeniable right to hold a referendum.
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
I like your thinking there DerekM. 😉
The thing about Faslane is that it will quickly lose its utility if they can’t sneak subs in or out. An independent Scotland would have every right to insist any foreign submarine surface during passage through its waters. Submarine nets and traps would be perfectly within our right to deploy. The rUK would have to claim a significant amount of our seaways and the Clyde to operate clandestinely.
Not to mention that there’s no way we’ll simply allow secret nuclear convoys that pass through highly, for Scotland, populated areas.
Wow!!! Balance on Scotland Tonight 2 v 2 – Gethins & Harvie v Tomkins & Sarwar.
Frothing yoons on 5 live phone in now, but the marvellous Morag from Dundee, getting them telt, until she “had to be cut short as time is limited”
Great as always Morag, I don’t know how you can keep the heid, a researcher asked me to make a point on up all night a few months ago but I refused as I think I would have just lost it as I was so angry
I’ll repost this quote from Joe Pike’s “Project Fear” book about the 2014 Better Together campaign.
“A surprising number of pro-UK politicians and advisers I spoke to said something along the lines of: ‘There’s going to be a second Scottish referendum and we’ll lose it’”
You better believe it!
@ Rock
It is called playing the British political system,if we try to do this outside the system it brings in all sorts of constitutional problems but that does not mean we could not.
Different plan this one is expose westminster and its system for being the lying toerags they are,force them into a yes/no situation over section 30 and watch them squirm,knowing that either choice will lead to a referendum,their choice is agree to section 30 or deny it and watch as we have a referendum anyway and not a UK referendum but an EU referendum.
Its practically check mate only thing left for May to do is sign A50 and pray that the no vote wins the referendum,how much involvement she will have in that decision depends on her yes/no choice.
@Robert Graham says: 13 March, 2017 at 8:15 pm:
“shes arrogant and mad enough to do it . Any ideas of what next .”
Of course we know what to do next, Robert. We activists just sit back with big grins on our faces and wait for the obvious Scottish result from the Joe & Josephine McPublic on the streets of Scotland’s conterness to kick in.
If there is anything in this World that we Scots don’t like it is some daft Englander gadgie telling Scots we cannot do something or other.
We usually promptly go right out and bloody well do it anyway just to spite them and to prove to the gyte Englander that they were wrong and to make them look like the bloody fool they most likely are.
SKY and BBC baring their vicious tory teeth, or Murdoch’s ancient fangs.
One thing seems clear, UK spooks have not or cannot bug Bute House or the SNP, considering how extraordinarily hysterical yoon culture is today. All after M15 were offering SNP anti hacking security advice lately.
link to caltonjock.com
Willie Rennie:(the Gray ghost of Scottish politics)
Believes success is a spend of £230million for a return of £600K and he wants to govern Scotland!!!
K1 (or anyone else with the ability):
There is an article on MSN, from the FT, about our referendums, full of the usual bull but nevertheless gives a good guide as to how the Unionist liars will come at us. Could you archive and post it on this thread as I’m unable to? Hope to be fully operational again, soon, cheers!
I don’t normally have any time for Kevin Schofield, he always comes across as someone who dined out on titibits of gossip from SLab politicians and lost a career when they were voted out. Tonight he did seem relatively normal compared to Matthew Syed who was coming across as a self righteous prick on BBC paper review.
Schofield also said, interestingly,that although he believed the economic case for Indy was weaker he felt the political case was stronger. Hard to argue against that.
Hi, caz-m
Glad to see you back again.
Missed your caustic comments.
12 hours in and not a peep from the clunking fist.
Brexit Tory David Davies.
“We have a plan to build a Global Britain,…”
Trans: if you are a refugee, asylum seeker, or EU migrant living in the BrexitUK, we will SEND YOU BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!
Labour abetting the Tories in giving May a blank cheque in the Commons Monday 13 march.
What a disgrace.
@Graeme Doig –
🙂
Aye, good point.
Here’s hoping he surfaces soon – wouldn’t be the same without him.
Oh boy watching Tory boy on SKY News doing the paper review … he’s going paraplexic over Scottish independence. 😀
Hi all, will do a bit of lurking until I pick up the pace again.
Great posts as per usual.
caz-m
Good to have you back. What a mental day. Nicola spot on to take the initiative. My word the yoon media machine is something to behold when it goes into full propaganda mode!
The reaction from the EU will be fascinating, not now but once May triggers A50 and the gloves come off.
For now I’m just amazed at the absolute frothing levels of rage and panic that are caused by a country having a discussion about running her own affairs.
Patrick Harvie calling for a grown up, respectful debate whilst Anas is busy talking over him about the Scottish Government lying to people. And so it begins…
@caz-m –
🙂
Hoots brother.
DerekM,
“@ Rock
It is called playing the British political system”
The Scottish parliament voting to ask for permission from Westminster to hold an independence referendum clearly demonstrates that the Scots are not “sovereign”.
A credible parliament of a proud, “sovereign” people would never do that, even for show.
An independence referendum would be on our terms, not Westminster’s.
Robert Peffers has been shouting from the rooftops that Scotland does not need Westminster’s permission to hold an independence referendum and that Scots are “sovereign”.
I wonder what he has to say about the parliamentary vote to seek permission.
You’ll know we’re really in ref 2, when my Slovene girlfriend starts going Slovenia says NO2 apeshit, btl rancid The Graun, again. Cant wait:D
Adam Tomkins MSP?Verified account @ProfTomkins 9h9 hours ago
More
Looks like Sturgeon’s cunning plan is unravelling already
Honestly, I’ve been busy laughing my socks off at the yoon hysteria tonight. Not only did Theresa May fail to appreciate the FM really, really, really wasn’t bluffing, now she has moronic clowns telling her to refuse section 30.
Please Theresa, please, please, please say you won’t allow a referendum.
What a hoot. Those Tories in London really do not have a clue about Scotland, or our rather canny First Minister.
lol there has been a few old faces turning up lately,do you think it has anything to do with that smell that is in the air,you know that smell of freedom 🙂
Just in time caz the fecht has just started lol welcome back 😉
@heedtracker:
“SKY and BBC baring their vicious tory teeth, or Murdoch’s ancient fangs.”
Interesting isn’t it.
Murdoch usually likes to back a winner, and you’d think the Indy vote will get up this time round, so what’s he playing at?
Aaaah. He wants the Sky deal, from the Tories. The one that fell through last time because of the illegal and criminal activities of organs of News Corp.
So it’s his bargaining chip with May.
@ScottieDog
So, to cut a few corners, the Central Bank of Scotland (CBS) issues £10 billion worth of Bonds which get sold, and the CBS gets real money for it. So it’s sitting there with £10 billion of assets, and £10 billion of debts, but they’re say 50 year bonds at 1% (Ireland did that at 0.33% for £1.2 billion).
Then the CBS does some quantatitive easing for £10 billion and buys those bonds back with it.
So the CBS is sitting there with £10 billion of cash, plus £10 billion worth of bonds but has to pay itself 1% interest every year (and repay the bonds in 50 years).
Tell me where I went wrong!
@ Rock
Technically Robert is correct Rock we do not need their permission to hold a referendum,we could go back to the old documents that nobody has used for 700 years and try and figure out what they mean or we can beat them up with their own parliament legislation section 30.
I like the second choice better,but having options is always good.
lol maybe one day you will figure out that it is your sovereignty that is allowing you to challenge the British in the first place.
STV 1 – 0 BBC
BBC1 news, 14 minutes of continuous unionist interviews and comments.
Compare with Scotland Tonight’s 2vs2 panel interview.
Simple message, only watch the BBC in order to measure the bias…
I see some folk think that a Section 30 order is about gaining PERMISSION to hold a referendum…!
There was me thinking a Section 30 was about making the referendum LEGALLY BINDING .
We can have a referendum anytime we like, but the Section 30 merely makes it legally binding.
Jeez… i really hope TM refuses the Section 30 order….. !
after all this time surly someone south of the border would twig or ask why are we sending all our money to the jocks , when all we get is moaning in return , do you think maybe the penny will drop , might it just be the folks down south are not being told the truth oh dear .Maybe we should call for a UK wide vote and help them out ha ha we would be out by Tuesday last week .
I’m puzzled as to why this notion is beginning to be aired that “the economic case for indy is more difficult now”. What? With Brexit looming? Seriously??
Sounds to me like one of those “framing” arguments that needs to be nailed down right from the off.
We’ve had our pretty little “Brexit Bubble” but it’s going to pop very soon when it bumps into the spiky hard facts to be revealed by the EU negotiators after Art.50 is invoked.
Clearly one of the attacks that Project Fear 2.0 will attempt is to try to convince people that the inevitable coming changes are all too complex, troublesome and scary for mere mortals to understand, so we plebs should all just cower down in our little box and let our lords and masters in London decide everything for us.
It’s therefore important to get over that it’s independence, and only independence, that offers a positive, constructive and manageable route to a better future. And all we need to get there is to be willing to trust ourselves.
[…] her Twitter feed is full of personal insults, but we know that despite a search of her timeline no one can find any of them. I’ve seen a few corkers about Nicola today, all too rude to put on this family […]
It’s the beginning of a long road ahead. We can’t allow this to be a re-run of 2014 because nobody wants that. This will be different. The media will be more Vermont than before to try to throw us off track.
We have to talk to people differently this time. This isn’t about just voting for an independent nation it’s about keeping our trade doors open to countless other nations which we’d benefit from and they would love to work with.
This time the battle lines will be drawn differently for that reason. Westminster can no longer call on it’s best mates at Deutsche bank or many of it’s long standing Standard Life buddies or Asda or Tesco or Morrisons etc. None of those companies want to be closed off from the outside world and any that DO wish to speak out we’ll send them packing. As an independent country we can attract much of the London business that would feel shut off from a hard Brexit and we’d have the banking skills already on tap.
We also can’t allow them to turn our First Minister into a hate figure. They did that far too easily last time round so we have to find ways to combat it.
We’ve got to be wise about it. Pick and choose the fights and let them spout nonsense we have our European neighbours on side this time and plenty of people who would choose to be a part of a new vision if it’s sold to them with honesty and not through a scared media. We’ve got to do it from a strong “it’s not going to be easy but it will be better than the alternative” and that’s what we are going to do. For Scotland and for all of our European friends.
Earlier twitter suggesting Alex Salmond pushed Nicola into announcing the section 30 never saw what Nicola did to Liar Carmichael in 2014 debate.
I am not sure why our economic case is weaker this time around
What is the economic case for us prospering by staying under the heel of Westminster’s boot? A better deal with the EU than the other EU members have inside the EU.
There is almost no way a deal can be arrived at within the time frame so indy ref should offer a positive option versus still chaos down South
Can Mundell Carmichael and co give us a guarantee that they won’t concoct a story or lie leak it to the telegraph so that James Cook BBC attacks the first minister . No? . Ok didn’t think so
Big thank you to Nicola,
will dream tonight of a better land,
link to youtube.com
Swami Backverandah says:
14 March, 2017 at 12:01 am
@heedtracker:
“SKY and BBC baring their vicious tory teeth, or Murdoch’s ancient fangs.”
Interesting isn’t it.
Murdoch’s never going to back PR Scotland nation statehood. PR Holyrood puts way too much power in the hands of us the people already. UK has such a vast gulf between the rich and the rest of us, they can never allow us the power to even try to change this. Crash Broon was a great example of how the fake lefties of the UK will never try to change the socio economics that make the rich so rich here. Look at all the Labour Lords and Ladies.
Its a long slog too. Looking across at countries like Norway, they have had centre left and very left politics in power for a long time, since before WW1. Norway’s socio economic reaction and responses to striking north sea oil were so different for the UK’s for all of this. Denmark’s much the same but Murdoch’s a great example of the massive tory opposition to letting we the people, anywhere near controlling a Scotland that could benefit everyone.
Funny thing is the media and the Tories think that’s it the FMs done the announcement so wait a couple of weeks for article 50 and we’re away……Wrong!!!
That’s when Nicola Sturgeon plays the next card just when they think she’s gone quiet and !!Boom!! she’ll do it again
Mrs May’s going to get the pish ripped out of her every time she thinks she’s getting a foot forward, that’s how Nicola Sturgeon operates she draws you in then !!Ooft!! solar plexus
This is going to be the most meticulously planned sniper honed deadpool campaign ever seen and it’s going to be epic
Ten pound bet says Theresa May is a gibbering greetin faced wreck before Christmas if she lasts that long in the job,
Nearly forgot, make them answer the questions, why us?
Independence means Independence and we’re going to make a success of it
and get the best possible deal for Scotland!
Goose and Gander there
That wee prick from the Daily Mail on Sky ‘news’ paper review saying a poll last year found Ruth Davidson (I think he got her name right) was more popular than the First Minister. If I recall it was nothing more than your typical colonial media spin asking two different questions i.e. was Ruth Davidson good at her job at her job as Scottish Tory leader and was the First Minister doing a good job – two completely different scenarios that bore no relationship or eqivalence. Hell even back then I thought (t)Ruthless was doing a good job as Tory leader – doesn’t mean I in any way support the lying toad. Such is the depth of research of these London telly media pundits – effing clueless.
The thing is (and this is why they will lose ScotRef) I am genuinely convinced that they believe their own spin; their own shite. I really do. And that delusion is going to come back and bite them big time on the arse, such is their complete an utter ignorance of the issues here in Scotland. Just look at how stunned they were by today’s announcement! That demonstrates just how disconnected these idiots are from the political scene in Scotland – haven’t a bloody Scooby McDoo. And it’ll cost them big time.
Hell bloody mend them.
Anybody seen Mr McIntyre OBE yet? Just askin’.
Meant to add…
I’ve said this before but I think it is worth repeating.
ScotRef has been called by the First Minister and its legality will be ratified by the Scottish Parliament in the next week or so.
Project Fear II should be under no illusion. Should they break campaigning rules (breaking purdah like they did last time) and should the BBC present biased coverage (like it did last time – see Prof Robertson et al), and should any last minute bribes be made (which, of course, they have no intention of ever delivering upon anyway) then UNDERSTAND THIS.
Should YES lose again (very doubtful) THERE WILL BE A THIRD INDYREF. No Ifs, no Buts. If the Yoons want to avoid the ‘neverendum’ scenario THEN THEY MUST LEARN TO PLAY BY THE BLOODY RULES.
Your choice, Yoons. Don’t ever say you haven’t been told.
An appeal from The National:
“We’ve battled hard for this moment – and now it’s time to back us. We need you to stick with us, and to convert other people, help us find new readers.
We don’t have the resources of other papers. We’ve had to do this the hard way, not unlike the independence movement itself.
We are unashamedly Yes. We will be your paper of record. If you back us, we’ll help you deliver independence. It’s what we’re here for.”
link to thenational.scot
Was at SNP meeting last night and our MSP said they can’t stop a referendum. But if they refuse to recognise an advisory ref then the UN would come down on our side.
So the UK government, if they have any sense, will allow a Section 30.
We, in West Dunbartonshire, who voted Yes in 2014 are raring to go.
Many of us meeting at SNP conference next weekend.
Just been looking at the new SNP Indy ref website.
I think Robert Peffers may want to write to them because this is how it explains the Act of Union:
5th May, 1707,
“The Act of Union abolishes the Scottish and English parliaments and creates the UK Parliament in London.”
Even the BBC has it right link to news.bbc.co.uk
Winnie Ewing reconvened the Scottish Parliament for the first time in 292 years.
Dr Ewing became an SNP MSP in the first Holyrood elections. As the oldest member, she chaired the first meeting on 12 May 1999.
Opening the session, the 79-year-old said: “I want to start with the words that I have always wanted either to say or to hear someone else say – the Scottish Parliament, which adjourned on March 25, 1707, is hereby reconvened.”
Graham fucking Norton… I KNEW it!!!
Double dunter!
Spring’s sprung
And hope’s back
Those poor yoons. They know the ba is burst really, and now they have to go through the frothing motions anyways.
Dancer !
link to independent.co.uk
Jings i get full marks and there was the wife calling me a drunk,lazy,insomniac with a dark sense of humour and always reading but knows when i have made a mistake.
Well fuck me it turns out i have genuine intelligence i be flabbergasted lol
Bloody heel I scored 5.5 out of 7 Derek.
I don’t read … much … other than National.
I have been know to take occasional 😉 drink but do NOT do drugs hence the half point. 😀
If they had said drink and/or take drugs I’d have taken the full one point there. 😀
Hmm, full marks though I’ve never bothered with weed since getting it in Amsterdam. Why buy shit when you can get the real thing?
Proud Cybernat @ 1.03
I can see what you are saying,but I can’t agree.
If they mess with this Campaign and win (I can accept a vote honestly won), they will I am afraid just rinse and repeat any other vote.
Can’t say I blame them if it’s? saving their Union.
But as you say….They must learn not to break the rules.
I would say that I am done with referendums, I would make each and every General Election a vote on keeping to the term’s and conditions of the Treaty of the Union.
This would be a Reserved matter….Aye it would be a Westminster vote.
No more section 30,no more wondering if they will play fair this time.
We were reduced to following ballot boxes last time FFS!
We can’t keep repeating the same method, espically since we will never be able to organise a free and fair media in this country,while it is governed under the Treaty conditions.
So I would argue one last time to get it right (Honest) then it’s plan B.
Have all the MP’s (SNP at this point) stand on a commitment to remove the Scottish parliament from sitting as the Union Parliament.
Therefore one way or another Scotland can vote itself out out that bloody Treaty.
But a third referendum would be just setting us up for them to make us look foolish.
What a wonderful day!!!
Sky news with huge graphic showing that Scotland would lose £1700 per person after indy. Bottom of the screen states: source Kevin Hague / GERS.
Desperate stuff from Murdoch. We all know GERS data is deliberately vague, and that Hague is a raving loony. Still, if Murdoch is to achieve his aims, he’ll have to help uk gov, the most corrupt on earth. Rewards from indy 1 are there to see, where irrelevant nobodies ended up on Lords benefits.
Yes, what a wonderful day, I’m now shattered. I think it’s important we go more out into the wild media world and, well, educate. There’s a lot of misinformation totally decent people have about Independence, the SNP, supporters, our economy, even our size and population! All deliberately fostered by the anti-SNP and anti-Indy media, particualrly the London-based.
But make a sensible argument and the decent ones can be influenced and dare I say, impressed. We’re making friends with those who have been indoctrinated to hate us, despise us, even have total contempt for us, and that’s very important for after the YES vote and Indy. It needs a cool head but worth it – they are our neighbours and friends, even though in a different country.
But more than that they know people, they talk, and even some of the people they know might be ex-pat Scots, and they talk with friends and relatives. Just get to that first link in the chain, and perhaps we’re changing NOes to YESsers who we don’t know and won’t meet. But it’s bloody tiring 🙂
I’m probably going to stick with defence as my “speciality” as I always had an interest and since 2012 have constantly taken the time to catch up (having lost most interest when I got married and we brought up kids – a big gap). I find if we can get something in common, an opinion, an idea, it gets a good reception as that too, is their interest, but stuck with that anti-indy baggage. I think I’m making some progress …
Was at my local SNP branch meeting last night and my MSP said we can have a referendum without a section 30 and if we vote yes then the UN would come down on our side and TM et al could do nothing about it. Although he would prefer if it didn’t come to that.
I think the idea of not engaging with trolls is a fine one: To do so is to allow them to occupy more space than they deserve or is representative of their actual number; plus it only produces heat rather than light. Make no mistake the HWs and JDs of the world will be delighted at the prospect of a new referendum campaign. The best way to spoil their year is to simply ignore them.
Better to go offline and persuade your friends, family, neighbours and work colleagues.
But still follow Wings obv!
The Unionists are very scared, none more so than the high earners in the politics-media bubble. They fear the loss of income and career as a result of Scottish Independence, after which Scotland’s vast wealth will stop coming to Westminster. They know that Scotland will win this time.
And oh, the irony. Westminster soon to have their Scottish ‘benefits’ cut. Austerity for the British Establishment, courtesy of the Jocks.
A referendum isn’t just the vote, it’s the whole process of a Nation making an important decision. If you cannot articulate the arguments and weight up the pros and cons diligently, then just toss a coin for all the weight the verdict will carry.
If you screw with the process, corrupt and manipulate the process, just like the media did in 2014, the arguments do not get to the heart of the debate. One side wins, but only wins a vote they have themselves compromised and discredited. It means nothing. It is a cold, depressing indictment of a failed process and nothing more.
The underlying issue, the reason why people want a referendum in the first place, doesn’t go away, and it will keep resurfacing for as many times as it takes until the argument is dealt with properly. Respect the result??? What, after you’ve treated the debate with outright contempt and skewed the agenda by walking us up the garden path with your contemptible propaganda? I’m rather happy to disappoint you.
If Unionists genuinely want a stable, united UK, then the best advice I can give them is to pack in all the shite and propaganda, end the distortion of reality and denial of the truth. Have a proper, constructive, mature dialogue. Do not let your argument be presented by the fart in a glass that was Better Together, and then hyped up to absurdity by the BBC. To quote Gandalf in the movies; dark fire will not avail you.
Frankly, the way I see it, Unionists have to corrupt the narrative because in that straight and honest debate I just mentioned, they don’t have a leg to stand on, and fine they know it. You win or lose on the honest merits of the argument. If you cheat or duck the issue, you waste everybody’s time and we have to start all over again. But then, most Unionists I know have a problem being honest with themselves, and don’t like to have their cosy prejudices examined in daylight.
Personally, I will NEVER respect the result of a referendum or election won or lost by the mendacity of the BBC or wider media, and the sooner that penny drops at the BBC HQ, the sooner we can get this important constitutional debate underway. If the Unionists tire of “neverendums ” then they really want to grow the fk up and address the constitutional issue properly and constructively exhaust the arguments rather than manipulating the agenda.
It really isn’t that difficult… The difficult bit is making a progressive case for the Union, especially while arrogant Unionists like Dugdale and Davidson assume they don’t have to bother, and believe the issue gets resolved by parroting claptrap and bullshit ad nauseam.
Horseshit, no matter beautify packaged, is still horseshit, and it’s the substance which matters to the roses, not the packaging.
Breeks, what you have just posted is really rather special. With your agreement I intend to share it with everyone I know.
Like me, I’m sure they will be inspired by reading it.
The whole Ref2 debate, you have summed up perfectly where you said:-
“Frankly, the way I see it, Unionists have to corrupt the narrative because in that straight and honest debate I just mentioned, they don’t have a leg to stand on, and fine they know it. You win or lose on the honest merits of the argument. If you cheat or duck the issue, you waste everybody’s time and we have to start all over again. (edit)
Personally, I will NEVER respect the result of a referendum or election won or lost by the mendacity of the BBC or wider media, and the sooner that penny drops at the BBC HQ, the sooner we can get this important constitutional debate underway.”
The thing is Laura Kuensberg didn’t need a source she just needed to listen to Nicola’s press conference. Even the NY Times quoted the FM correctly and I’d be surprised if they were at Bute house. For me it was like the Nick Robinson episode in 2014 when I watched Salmond press conference to the international press core. An hour later I listened in disbelief as he blatantly lied that Alex Salmond refused to answer his questions. The common theme is they both work for the BBC.
We haven’t even had the referendum vote in Holyrood yet and they’re at it again. Batten down the hatches we’re in for 18 months of insults and lies
I’ll go further, Breeks, your piece deserves to be read out in both Parliaments and maybe even elsewhere, though perhaps with just a little editing. Alex for one, I’m sure, would be up for it.
in 2014 of course I wanted to win and argued for our freedom as best I could but at no point did I feel confident we would win.
This time it is different.
I am calm and determined because I know we will win.
I.m not in the least surprised the yoons are bricking it because I think they realise they are going to lose.
Can’t stop laughing. Happy. It’s just brilliant.
Happiest for two years.
Get rid of fake SKy. Subsidising cheats on steroids.
They know they are at it. They even admit it.
What are the Tories liars going to do now?
Breeks @ 4.28 Couldn’t agree more. You put it so much better than many of us could.
The FM hinted at that when she said the Scottish Government would be honest, the least we should expect is that the other side would be honest too – I won’t haud ma breath on that.
Good Morning Britain – coming up now- Alex Salmond – is he the ‘puppet master’. Oh and BTW Scotland’s finished – been flipping channels – no bank of England – no currency – no eu. Aargh – thinking of going back to bed!
So. Theresa May’s statement yesterday. I’m guessing everyone else felt that arrogant condescension didn’t go down very well? Oh, and the statement about game playing from a PM who uses the civil rights of EU residents as ‘bargaining chips’, who talks of playing her cards close to her chest when negotiating? Probably not the soul of sensitivity or diplomacy in the current circumstances right there. Not to mention the glaring hypocrisy and utter lack of self awareness evident in the rhetoric.
Anyroads, there is something more fundamental for Ms May to consider, but I’m sure she is already perfectly aware of it. She is NOT First Minister of Scotland. Scotland is a partner in a bipartite international treaty and we already had a legal and ‘binding’ referendum with agreed upon outcomes, pledges and assurances.
The EU referendum was not, however legal and binding. Not until ratified by parliamentary debate and legislation. It was merely consultative. Prior to the vote, there was no white paper, no S30, no consultative or legislative committees… nothing. The only legal and binding referendum was Scotland’s indyref and Westminster arrogance drove a horse and cart through the outcomes to settle a Tory pissing contest. Yet Scots were asked.. scratch that… TOLD to sit down, shut up and accept that the consultative referendum’s result trumped their settled and legally agreed upon outcomes. Even though… even though that outcome was at some constitutional odds with the outcome of their own indyref. Sit down, shut up and just accept.
Mmmmmm, NAW!
Something else Ms May will be perfectly aware of. A precedent has been set and her government has just set it. The result of a NON binding and consultative referendum result has been acted upon because of the political weight of popular opinion. To the eagle eyed, this fact will not go unnoticed, nor its ramifications. We don’t require an S30 to enact our own consultative referendum and just as surely the result of popular opinion would be acted upon. It is in fact a great credit to Scotland’s First Minister that she would seek to do what the UK government would not. Legally dot the ‘i’ and cross the ‘t’. Cause the least harm in any outcome.
There is great talk of betrayal in the mass media today and tbf they’re not wrong about that. There has been a massive and corrosive betrayal within the union. The guilty party however is not the SNP Scottish Government, which is naturally where they will lay the blame. Seein’ as how that’s where they’ve been telt to place it. No, the betrayal was entirely enacted by the UK government and in particular the Conservative party.
Knowing the result of 2014, Scotland should never have had its constitutional settlement endangered. There should never have been an EU referendum where Scotland was not given an opt out and given that ALL of the above were ignored, then the federal proposal of the Scottish Government to retain membership of both unions should have been given a damn sight more weight by the PM of our union partner. So, yes. Yes there has been a betrayal of the union, but not by Scotland’s First Minister.
As Ms May and the massed ranks of the media discovered yesterday Ms Sturgeon doesn’t play games and she doesn’t bluff.
She represents the interests of Scotland by mandate.
Sarah Smith on radio 4 – scotland in Europe route- she us simply making it up as she spoke. She has no idea what the process would be after a referendum.
This is propaganda of the highest order. May won’t allow a vote before uk leaves…………..try it, just try it.
Bealin’. Absolutely bealin’. Up with this shite I will not put!!!!
K1:
Direct Debit set up.
link to ref.scot
Peace Always
OK that didn’t work. Post has just disappeared. Anyhoo – been channel flipping – BTW Scotland’s finished.
On a brighter note Alex Salmond is on Good Morning STV and got them telt. Nigel Farage on 7.10 – should be interesting.
Moved from last thread!
Dan says:
13 March, 2017 at 11:57 am
“I became a father on Friday and nothing would make me happier than this little man having the chance to live in a free Scotland” ?
Bob Mack says:
“Congrats to Dan, and all other parents and grandparents like myself. The best legacy we could leave our young folk is their freedom to choose for themselves.”
“That’s what I call great news, Dan. Give the wee guy a big kiss for Auld Bob Peffers.”
Dan, may I add my warmest congratulations to those who have already done so and say these words to your to your child.
“Welcome little Stranger, Scotland welcomes You”
The above posts, I think, speak volumes.
What kind of people would we be if our legacy to our children was to leave them to live under the oppression of Westminster, a “Palace” no less;
In the 21st-century. When the people employed by “the People”(Us), who are well financially rewarded, whose sole purpose was to lead the “union” in a fit and decent manner for the betterment of the people has (We are witness) openly and unashamedly shown its avariciousness and utter disregard for the welfare of the population of not only Scotland, other places will suffer also.
Scotland however, is ours and like most other countries we want to govern our own affairs.Nothing more.Once again we will soon have the opportunity to, with nothing more than a pen, pass full stewardship of our nation to our now and yet to be born new Scots who’s birthright it is and always has been.
I will be the first to admit that I don’t have a clue how it comes to be that the other “partner”, in this “Union” holds such power over us that “permission” and “extra powers” have to be asked, bargained or pleaded for but I know that it’s very wrong.
Let’s put it Right!
Peace Always
Breeks says:
A quite brilliant posting Breeks, this needs to be spread.
Kudos
Breeks & Macart:
The situation very eloquently stated.
Thank you, Both.
Peace Always
Breeks @ 4.28 am
Would you mibee consider sending your excellent comment to a selection of the Unionist papers?
I would love to see that read through at least one of them = )
Or maybe Alex Salmond would read it out on LBC…
If Scotland is a basket case after three hundred years of an uneven Union
then why vote to stay that way ?
Ken 500 = ) ‘Happiest for two years.’ 🙂
I’m even happier today than I was yesterday!
Scotland’s spirits are rising and we are walking taller already = )
Oh what a bonny future lies ahead = )
ScotRef = ) YES!!!
What now is the purpose of the House of Lords. Scotland will be well rid of this crowd of spongers and the building they nest in. Last night proved how powerful they actually are .. totally inadequate.
So we have to wait until we know what the brexit deal is.
We know what it is “brexit is brexit” now let’s move on to our day job?
As for the britnats Davidson Dugdale and co watch how they try to declare UDI in Scotland and undermine this nation
Since May may not get a deal and refuses Westminster a vote why should we wait?
The folks of England and Wales should be envious that Scotland will have a meaningful vote. It’s only the Scottish government that is presenting that option, because it’s certainly not available in Westminster.
When the Mayhem Govt. tells the Scottish Parliament to get stuffed, every SNP MP, MSP and MEP needs to resign and stand for re-election on a ticket that if over 50% of the electorate votes SNP, that becomes a mandate to repeal the Act of Union.
If the electorate should decline the opportunity to do that, then the SNP need only shrug and accept the fact that the electorate are content to be… well, I can’t say, but you get the idea.
In reply to this new unionist idea that “politics is not a game”, could someone remind me why the EU Ref was called?
Oh yes, to settle an internal discussion about Europe that has been raging within the Tory party for at least thirty years.
With a side order of defending the Tory party’s right flank against the Kippers…
Now, who’s talking about silly games again?
The Parliament of Scotland was never abolished. It was dissolved in the same way as the English one and both reconvened in joint session according to the Treaty. If I remember correctly Scotland avoided an election. Probably for fear that they’d be out on their ears and our new lot instantly repeal out Act of Union. However that only emphasises what should be apparent by the subsequent meeting of those MPs as a Scottish Grand Committee. The Parliament of Great Britain was not an enlarged Parliament of England but rather an ongoing joint session of that and Scotland.
One thing that slightly winds me up is terming the removal from Holyrood or retention of powers by Westminster as “repatriation”. It is nothing of the sort. Any powers either have derive from the people of Scotland. The SNP stood on a platform of moving more powers from Westminster to Holyrood. Holyrood was created via an electoral process. All powers Holyrood has are by the permission of the electorate of Scotland either directly or via our elected representatives.
Long story short Westminster did not devolve anything. We, the people of Scotland, delegated power. Any power grab by Westminster is simply that. Putting the cart before the horse but if an independent Scotland is ever tempted to term its parliament a House of Representatives I’d argue instead that it be termed a House of Delegates.
Watching Mayhem, after hearing about Indy2, it seemed to me she was shaken and spoke nervously.
Yeah, she was outflanked, the UKOK media et all going bonkers in their anti Scottish line is not going to make things better for her.
When she is on her own in her office, she must be sitting with her head in her hands. This is only the first shot,she will be out maneuvered again in this high stake game of chess.
She will be regretting not listening to Scotland when she had the opportunity before she painted herself into a corner.
It is going to be a full on affair now, as Westminster and the media are not going to allow her to go back on her words.
Nicola’s ace is the act of Union at the end of the day,by showing the failure of the Union and exposing what really happens will shake Westminster to it’s core. The compliant media here will just not report it, but the European media certainly will.
A couple of articulate reasonable young people interviewed on BBC Breakfast live from Holyrood. The YES did very well, makikng the case and wishing he’s done more alst time, I thought for a moment he was going to start arguing with the NO when he had his turn, but instead he just pointed out that there was an uncertainty with the economy with Brexit as there was for Indy.
The NO uni student nodding intelligently when the YES spoke, making his points intelligently rather than “SNP Bad”, was still NO, but would consider any case made.
So the balance on BBC was YES 1.25, NO 0.75 !
Just saw the Angus Robertson interview from Bbc2 last night. The BBC show a picture of Scotland lying close to Norway. Ireland remains complete and England and Wales haven’t moved into the Atlantic.
What a joke. Cuts down ferry times to Norway though!
Radio 4 – Hyslop being interviewed. Same arguments (euro membership, too poor, currency etc.). Still no answers, still sounds like we don’t have a plan for this. For Christ sake, we’ve been highlighting this for the last 2 years. Get it sorted. Have some decent idea of what we will do, and ffs – sort out the economic argument – are we actually too poor?
I’m turning into Mr Angry!
Nicola made it very clear they are printing an honest assessment of Scotland potential answers to questions about trade economy defence etc. No SNP member will speak until that is published.
Just saw that interview with the two young men on BBC Breakfast. I think the interviewer was disappointed with the guy speaking for the No side, because he spoke respectfully about Nicola Sturgeon and said she had every right in principle to call a referendum. I don’t think that’s what he was supposed to say somehow.
Nicola Sturgeon was pushed into indyref2. And thats straight from the horses arse