Wings Over Scotland

Second chance Alba.

But Mr McTernan said… 🙄

I became a father on Friday and nothing would make me happier than this little man having the chance to live in a free Scotland 🙂

Well that’s summer holidays cancelled for next year.

Delighted.

Thought Nicola spelled out all the main points clearly, i.e. not just about this one issue, the threat of perpetual Westminster Tory rule and power grabs and (importantly imo) that it’s the right thing to do to ask people what they reckon when the Brexit deal is nearing completion.

Masterly.

Well, the conference is going to be a fun event. Wonder what they’ll be discussing at it?

Well played Nicola. Keeping the pressure on WM. If they don’t respond to this then it’s curtains for the ‘united’ kingdom.

It wont be easy, but I feel that we really can do this this time.

We seriously need to address some of the previous issues with the referendum. The entitlement to vote must be much improved. Proxy voting and postal voting must be secured and auditable. There must be an exit poll. My preference would also be to have independent oversight fro either the EU or the UN or both. The british establishment WILL cheat if they possible can.

Nicola has just demonstrated for the whole world to see that she wasn’t bluffing.

OMG what has happened have we declared a ref date?

Please can we go for Autumn 2018. Those of us who contribute on here and are able to get away from keyboards to chap doors and take to the streets would want to avoid campaigning through the winter months.
Another fairly important reason for that timetable would be that the expected 18 month negotiation following a YES vote would take us to Independence Day on 6 April 2020 which many of you will recognise as the 700th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath!

She makes you proud to be Scottish.

One step at a time, organized and getting all our ducks in a row, Nicola is awesome!!

Game on…. woo woo

This Malaysian is elated! Scotland free or a desert!

I have no idea what’s going on here, mainly cause I did not see what everyone saw regarding the person who is NOT our First Minister. (according to some insignificant little bus driver 😉 )

What I can say though from reading the comments so far is that the usual game of slapping a Yoon across their face with a fresh wet fish appears to have been stepped up a level. Apparently the game now requires a DOUBLE slap across the face with a fresh wet fish. 😀

Ya Beauty!

Well said. Well phrased. Perfect timing. No more being ignored, sidelined, patronised and treated with (hostile?) indifference, not even as an afterthought. Now Scotland IS the news.

Noo’s the day and noo’s the hour.

See the end of Westminster.

Lib Lab Con

Are just a shower.

On to victory!

The BBC are already fighting for the No campaign. The language is all about what Nicola Sturgeon cant do and shouldn’t be allowed to do.
It will be a very brave Yes supporter who takes up reading the printed media from today.
I’m not sure if my blood pressure will be able to cope with it again.

Indyref2 – game on!!! 🙂

Congratulations Dan. You must be a very proud “newbie” father. 😉

I think we all know it will be next year Graham. My personal wish is for it to be around August/September which would be JUST BEFORE our “beloved” BBC starts its part time second channel. 😀

IT’S OAN

Indy, 6th April 2020 sounds about right!

Oh damn, I forgot all about the coffee that I had brewed!

Cold coffee, but a warm heart.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Fantastic news. No doubt project fear will ramp up now. Bring it on. Oh to be a fly on the wall beside theresa may right now, ill bet shes fuming lol

Heard it on shortbread radio as I was watching the waves rolling in at Leven, sun must have been a bit bright though as I had to brush away a wee tear in the eye. Game on!

Well done N. Sturgeon… YAHOO! 🙂

Ok Stu, as you say the game is on.

I can’t wait to see what you have in store for the Unionists this time.

If you can increase that Yes vote like I believe you did last time, we are on to a sure thing.

Please, please just watch your back and stop going on long walks to lonely places on your own!

Yep right on Cue BBC . right now what the debt , the currency, blah blah blah get a f/n Grip . A total better together propaganda broadcast, who would have thought it.

Daily Politics – 2 tame talking heads and JoJo banging on about the lie that Nicola has been backed into a corner by that bunch of geniuses at WM and their fans in the media.

When are we getting a wee blue book 2?

Nicola was superb!

Gestation period of an Asian elephant: 645 days. Gestation period of an African elephant just 617. Indyref2=broadly similar wait.

Michty meee , saw the tweets last night , couldna sleep for excitement !

Canna wait to watch the hale NS speach etc

Happy Daze!

Note how the BBC cut off Nicola early in the questions from press. Only the most important announcement in years. Cut off after half an hour. Well we know about them.
Sky has continued to cover the announcement for well over an hour.

The BBC are still talking about NS Oil in terms of a crash in spite of the fact that it has done nothing but rise in value for over a year and is forecast to keep rising to over $60 a barrel. That’s a significant level way above the average.

AAAAAAARGH! Fucking fuming!

And they keep telling us we don’t want another Indyref in spite of the fact that we clearly fucking do!

A car plant can have a differential deal NI can have a differential deal even London may get a differential deal but Scotland can go fuck itself because it was stupid enough to vote No in 2014.

And Ive just heard on the BBC another reference to “Once in a generation” being valid enough to question the Scottish Governments mandate for Indyref 2.

AAAAAAARGH splutter spit fume!

Please lets have a Scottish Indy constitution that completely bans the BBC from broadcasting anywhere in Scotland. Forever! On health grounds.

What a brilliant speech by or Nicola. Just try and refuse Mrs May. Just try.
All the pressure now on May. She will have to come up with some sort of fudge, and that will not be easy.
Congrats to Dan, and all other parents and grandparents like myself. The best legacy we could leave our young folk is their freedom to choose for themselves.

@Rev Stu

Worth missing the dental appointment? 😉

additional contribution to fund made. If we don’t get it done this time it’s a bleak future all round

Radio Scotland choosing right now to give Duncan Hothersall of all people an extended slot.

fireproofjim @ 12.40pm

What channel were you watching? I watched the broadcast of Nicola’s statement on the BBC News Channel. They stayed with it until Nicola left the podium, having answered all the questions put to her, this was after roughly three-quarters of an hour.

Certainly, some of the graphics were slanted against the SNP and the Scottish Government, but, this is standard BBC operating procedure.

I actually switched to BBC2 and the aily Politic once Nicola had left the podium.

I felt the BBC was about as fair as they can be, given their anti-SNP stance. Brian Taylor got the first question; Sarah Smith was allowed to ask one and Glen Campbell got one. Mind you, GC’s question was clearly an attempt to muddy the waters.

Also, three different BBC journalists covering one event – either that is overkill, or a case of none of the three being capable of handling the thing solo – I favour the latter theory.

Well done FM.
How any of these so called Scottish parties seeking to silence Scotland’s democratic voice, then claim to be on any sort of moral footing is ridiculous.

Exit poll needed and postal votes to the bare minimum.

Yes!
Let’s keep the fundraiser open for another month and get that figure up to £200k

After the First Minister’s Speech. A Unionist Spokesperson was heard to say. That was more painful than a Rev Stu day out at the Dentist. Game on. Has anyone got a lend of a pair of size 8 boots. Here is a wee song from Nicola to Theresa(Skeletor) May link to youtube.com

All the BBC Pathetic Quay staff are standing, with tears in their eyes, singing “There’ll always be an England”.

Breastplate, you are so right – postal votes must be restricted to those with a genuine need. They are an open invitation to fraud and intimidation, and a negation of the whole principle of a secret ballot.

Just made my day.
Brilliant.

Bloody marvellous!

Dan, congratulations on your daddyhood and may you enjoy the wee souls steps in and independent Scotland – free from illegal wars and conscription , free from polluting WMDs and happy in a Scotland that looks after its young ,infirm ,old and feckless!

Yah Butey!! 😀

She’s a wee stoater oor FM, Sarah Yoon Smith says “And do you expect to win” Yes, says our wee stoater and I’ll start wae you outside right now before I kick Severins Arse and strangle Davie Clegg wae his sash (I made that last bit up)

We wont be outspent either, the plan worked, we’re officially loaded with dosh for this one

Time to start working on the “Wee Saltire Book” Stu

Craig P

The rUK is “Said” to be Scotlands largest market ONLY because our exports destined for trade outwith the UK that leaves via ports throughout the rUK in included within our so called exports to the rUK.

So happy, bring it on.

Listening to the journo questions it is pretty obvious how upset some of them are!

Sarah Smith making it personal on BBC News at one.

Watch how often a Union Flag appears on tv programmes from now on.

I am a little surprised by the poor standard of the unimaginative questions which were asked of Nicola.

Also, Unionist responses seem somewhat in disarray.

It all gives the impression that they have been caught on the hop. Today’s announcement clearly wasn’t something they were prepared for.

The coming referendum was ‘highly likely’, yet no preparation seems to have been made.

Have to say, SG timing was brilliant, just before WM A50 final vote and May’s triggering it.

Ha ha hah, hothersal sounded like a day out at a libdem conference, just speaking shite in an amateur sad voice, pathetic.

Remember those press conferences by Cameron and Brown where they read a statement and then walked away.

Nicola doesn’t do walking away she stood and answered all the questions. That’s Nicola’s way, the Scottish way.

It’s going to be interesting to see how Donalda’s bunch of unionist puppets handle (Sorry mishandle) Today’s announcement by NS on tonight’s Misreporting Scotland.

The cold water deluge is in full flow on the 1pm news led by Sarah Laboursmith followed by the London lot.

Only 14 minutes till today’s lunchtime PQ Lie Show.

Delaying it won’t fly, nor will denying it.

The ScotGov call an indicative referendum (which requires no permission) which asks “Do you wish the Scottish Parliament to dissolve the Treaty of Union with England?”

I know that seems like silly language for a question but its specific for a reason. If the treaty cannot be dissolved then its illegal. England/Wales can’t risk that post-brexit as nobody would trust them on any interntional treaty – frankly they look dodgy enough already.

It’d fuck them up massively in EU negotiations too – even without the international treaty aspects.

Scottish Parliament decides question and timing. Nothing else is going to fly at this stage.

lets hope the Yes campaign remembers to state that there is no 15 billion Scottish deficit and NS Oil price didn’t crash instead of accepting both claims and trying to waffle around them.
Leave no lie unchallenged and lets put the No campaign on the back foot by reminding people how bad the UK economy is by highlighting the TRUE 8.6 Trillion debt obligation the pension black hole the warmongering the austerity the lie about pooling and sharing the wealth gap the privatisation of the health service.
Lets not allow them to get us bogged down about meaningless currency arguments.

Any links to Nicola’s speech?
Heard it on radio but questions were cut short.

In topic.

Small nation identified as terrorist state by Grodon Brown and co during the financial crash they helped to create is in a financial uplift.
Name of the country Iceland. Even further out in the Atlantic than us. Shows the benefit of a small nation controlling its financial affaires.
link to bloomberg.com

We have the option of another 20 years of Torry austerity hitting the weak the infirm and poor.

Brilliant news today.

Also congratulations to Stephen Gethins our NE FIFE MP on Sky News. First class interview replies, never flustered. This guy is fast becoming a star in politics.

Paul Johnston of the IFS once again being trotted out by R4 news to regurgitate the usual “England subsidises Scotland” and “trade with England or single market” tropes.

tRuthless getting her “no mandate” oar in. At least the prog has the decency to play back her own “Vote no to stay in EU” quote, which she dodges and has the nerve to accuse NS of “disingenuity”. Goes on to regurgitate Barroso. Threadbare bluster.

Brexiteer Central in Downing St. has the nerve to call ScotRef “divisive”! Obsessed with the Brexit Bill, caught flat-footed. Nicola has played a blinder.

The yes campaign should go for project fear right away. The fear of being left in the UK. What do we want for our children, affordable housing, decent careers or stay with the UK and live in an old caravan whilst pulling leeks in Lincoln. The UK has nothing to offer

The Rev’s fundraiser seems to be getting another wee lift! I wonder why?! 🙂

Very good, Nicola Sturgeon has to look out for Scotland, and that is what she is doing. Just read Ruth Davidson’s comment on this on twitter. So she says that Nicola Sturgeon is not acting in the ‘interests of all of Scotland’. What a joker eh. She even says that N.S is not acting as first minister now she has announced this. Oh aye, so what you gonna do about it. Tory austerity, attacking the poor, the vulnerable. EVEL, taking us into a deep pit called brexshit. No thanks Ruthie.

This time we actually do have the EU27 who will be watching very closely, and who will support Scottish independence.

I saw someone mention proxy votes. There was a consultation a while back on what could be done differently, one thing, if I remember correctly, proxy votes will only be allowed by people who already have a vote themselves. So if you act as proxy, you have to be voting yourself as well. Hard to believe that wasn’t the case last time. If it makes a difference, which it might, because maybe last time, a person could go out proxy voting for more than one?
That would have been very dodgy.

Unsurprising, and completely understandable. A second referendum was obviously the right choice for Scotland. However…

1.) Don’t assume Westminster is going to give you one.

It would be catastrophic in Scotland if they didn’t, an appalling and deliberate ignorance of democratic principle. But who says you need Scotland? Westminster is elected across the Union, and the Tories are looking to have a commanding majority even without Scottish votes; from their perspective, they’ve nothing to gain, but everything to lose from allowing a second Referendum.

Remember, Cameron only called the Scottish and Brexit referendums on the assumptions they were certain wins. The first he did win, but not as thumpingly as expected, and the second they actually unexpectedly lost, with the polls being seriously off on top of that. And now the Tories, especially Teresa May, are much, MUCH more cautious about what polls tell them, and what gambles they dare take. Why do you assume, with the polls for Independence even closer this time around, they’ll shoot themselves in the foot by risking a referendum that already looks iffy for them?

And she’s already showing that determination to ignore simple questions of democracy in her actions; Everyone was saying that May should have called an early Election with Labour so weak, and the Tories needing a new mandate… and yet she didn’t. There was no need too. The public can grouse, but so far, seem unwilling to do anything to force the issue.

They may do the same for the Referendum too. Watch closely what May’s response is in the next few days; I’m not so sure as you lot are that this Lady won’t see it as a sign of virtue that she’s not for turning the question back to Scotland again.

2.) You’re both assuming Europe means what they say when they declare the Four Freedoms are non negotiable…

Which incidentally, I believe that they do. But the base underlying assumptions for the increased Indy support are that Scotland will be worse off outside of Europe because the UK won’t be able to pick and mix, whilst the Tories are assuming they somehow can bully Europe into letting them. And yet at the same time…

3.) … but also that Europe doesn’t mean what it says when it talks about the inviolable nature of nation states.

The video below referring to the policy of Spain categorically was talking about Scotland reapplying, not staying in. Because otherwise then the situation actually would be tricky for Spain with regards to Catalonia; There is no mechanism for sub-parts of a member state that is leaving to stay in; to set one would be to officially support any separatist movement anywhere, which doesn’t make any sense from a European Union perspective.

There is however provision for newly independent ones to come back. Spain’s view is that Catalonia is never having that independence, and they plan to make sure of that, but acknowledges Scotland might get it from the UK, so the two are nothing alike from their viewpoint.

Of course, Spain is not the whole EU anyway. Or even its core, which is really still France or Germany. And they may make it very easy for an Independent Scotland to come back. But you’ll have to be both Independent and Out for that to happen. You really will; you’re cherry picking hopes as badly as the Tories there to take a video saying you will have to reapply to mean you can stay in. Even the SNP understands this is one of the EU’s hard lines, as the second Indy Ref has been sensibly positioned in time to provide an Independent answer to that, but…

4.) Project Fear will be back, and it’ll be more convincing than ever.

Yes, we all know the Tories are talking bollocks about the absolutely certain land of milk and honey that awaits us beyond Brexit. But then, we knew that about the £350m for the NHS too. Didn’t we? Didn’t we?. Apparently not enough of us did.

And when it turned out to be lies, and the Nasty Party doubled down on the Nasty… they got more, not less popular. Don’t assume that growth in support for Independence now, when sensible people can see the future is going to be terrible will last through the period when awful people make it quite clear just how awful they intend to be, and that future becomes the present… and this time with oil revenues seriously down, eh, hint hint?

My view is the EU will give a reasonable deal to an Independent Scotland. But an Independent England quite possibly won’t. We had this argument during the first Indy Ref, and Nationalists got it horrendously wrong by dismissing reasonable fears in the face of obvious malice.

The malice is going to be even more direct this time around. Don’t discount it a second time.

5.) But the UK is also going to be screwed post-Brexit.

We’re not going to get a wonderful a-la carte menu from the EU. It’s nonsense to suggest we will. So Scotland will be faced with an awful alternative anyway. The question is… how bad? And we can’t know that yet. I don’t think the Government themselves show any signs they understand what they’re actually committing themselves too, so how can we the electorate have any clue?

But in that sense, it’s also going to be Westminster that drives the pro-Independence votes too. I know you want to believe that people just didn’t get your arguments enough last time; the reality is though they did, they just aren’t as convinced of them as you are. You can’t work harder this time to convince them more; your arguments were already as honest and heartfelt as they could be.

What I think might swing it towards Independence is the same blindness to consequences that Westminster shows now could lead them to honestly committing on the claim that “No deal is better than a bad deal” and not understanding that for everyone else, who has to actually try and live on No Deal, it’s not.

I think this time it’ll come down to just how much the electorate will feel they’ll get a bigger beating if they stay than if they go.

Summing Up Then:

Donald Trump is the President of the United States. That actually happened. The response to declining economic equality and political engagement was … to elect Trump.

So in this world, you’d be a fool to think “Obviously we can rely upon people to judge which is the clearly worse alternative.”

We’ll get in inclination in the next few weeks if Westminster does want risk asking you to choose again, but it’s going to come down to which Scotland fears more I suspect. Don’t ignore the Fear this time, and that responses to it aren’t rational.

@galamcennalath

‘caught on the hop’

A goodly number of the assembled and wider yoonitariat filled a great deal of column space and broadcast time by declaring the FMs stance a bluff over the past nine months.

I’d guess they turned up today expecting some sabre rattling and a last call to ‘listen up’. They could then return to their desks and/or twitter and right up another ‘bluffing’ piece.

There’ll be some serious egg on face across the meeja and assorted punditry at this moment. (shrugs)

Perhaps if they’d followed the idea that action has consequence and legality has procedure, they could have saved themselves a bit of embarrassment.

Onyhoo. It shouldn’t haved mattered to them whether an indyref is winnable or not, whether its wanted or not. Only that it was right that it should be in place and that the Scottish electorate get the say on what happens next.

They simply couldn’t stop themselves from acting as they have. Their choice.

@DerekM

Thanks very much for that link to NS.

Went to the Qs in the last part and she did well.

Yoonery seems to still be in denial across the board … ‘it isn’t needed’, ‘it isn’t wanted’, ‘it won’t happen’, ‘it will be stopped’.

Or those Yoons thinking wishfully ahead … ‘you won’t win’.

It’s going to happen guys! Get used it it!

Just watched Fluffy on Sky news and it cheered me up no end.
I thought I was fit to explode until I saw Fluffy visibly trembling with badly concealed apoplexy.
It was interesting however that he kept repeating when asked that there “COULD BE” another referendum but he believed there “SHOULDNT” be one.

Message to self
Those of us who stood and watched others do all the work the last time (myself included)must get out there and help make independence happen this time.
Oh to wake up one morning in the near future to an independent Scotland!!

By chance I got a spec for a job in Edinburgh today. Seriously considering moving back up so as to take part in the founding of a new country.

Somewhere between autumn 2018 and spring 2019.

Presuming it gets the go ahead.

Is the difference of 6 months to allow for the timing for permissions to be given, etc.

I’m thinking a 1 1/2 year campaign would be preferable to a 2 year from the permission, or do folks prefer a 2 year campaign?

I

@Titler

“4.) Project Fear will be back, and it’ll be more convincing than ever.”

No absolutely NOT!

They’ve lost the EU argument

they’ve lost the currency argument the value of the pound is severely diminished because of Brexit.

They’ve lost the economic argument. After 7 years of imposed austerity the UK is even further away from a surplus today than we were in 2010.
The UK debt now stands in excess of 8.6 trillion.

They’ve lost the business exodus argument as businesses declare they are upping sticks and moving because of Brexit.

They’ve lost the NS Oil argument as the forecast has the Oil price to reach in excess of $60 by the end of the year.

So what do they have left? They will harp on about a “Forecasted” made up 15.8 billion deficit which can be proven to have no connection at all to an Indy Scottish economy but can be proven to be nothing but a forecast of UK Government spending choices outwith Scotland.

Unionists – Just ‘Running Scared’ – Copyright Orbison 1961.

@Dr Jim
“It’s a slam dunk as they say in Kansas”

The Unionist splutterers are “all hat and no cattle”, as they say down in Texas. 🙂

Ooooh, Matron, it’s all going on!

Seriously, NOW is the time for the Greens to release a formal statement fully and unconditionally supporting this move by the SNP Government. Any dilly-dally procrastination on this matter by them should be viewed with utter disdain by us.

Nicola is playing an extremely clever tactical strategy here and if the Greens, or anyone else, attempt to play the me me me card above the best interests of Scotland then we should treat them on the same level as the LibLabCons.

Get on board NOW or be drowned by the resultant floods.

Great speech, great timing, great news. Really looking forward to an upbeat campaign countering the Union argument which will probably consist of, erm, well, not quite sure as pretty much all the previous ‘arguments’ are now shattered.

Glenn Campbell tweets that the SNP already has a NewRef website up and running:

link to ref.scot

Just for you Gus. 😉

link to youtube.com

For me if any NO vote suppoerter comes up to me and spouts any of their “what about the oil?” shite then I’ll be spouting THIS straight back in their soor puss face!

link to twitter.com

For me that is job done on the oil question!

Does this mean Aa kin pit up ma new YES SALTIRE noo.
the auld wan looks as its been at the Alimo!:)

Alamo dammit!:(

Mayhem will be spitting buckets of venom now.

BRING IT ON.

Davidson having a meltdown on Sky News…har har…!!

Calling the indyref in 2014 a “huge majority”, much to the amusement of the news anchor…!

Unusually, comments open on Aunties website….don’t wonder why folks, it’s all to do with the well known fact that it is used to frighten the unwary Scottish person seeking info on independence as an option. 🙂 Aye right!

Too much uncertainty this independence but everything Brexit is hunky-dory.

The comments below the line are just pure vile… init! 🙂

Same in the Hootsman by the way.

Had a wee listen to Prof Tomkins on Beattie’s shortbread.
Cheered me up no end…

Beattie ” Should T. May refuse to allow a referendum”?

Prof T. “I refuse to answer yes or no to such a complicated question”

link to bbc.co.uk
1hr and 14m in.

from WoS Twitter.

Can I just say I love the timing of the speech.

It offers encouragement to English MPs/Lords to “do the right thing” over the next few hours.

They won’t.

@jdman

You have to sleep sometime. 😮

Apparently we will be OUT of NATO…!!

Brilliant..that decides the nukes issue then. They will HAVE to be moved.

Guy on news is a comic.

“If Scotland was independent the ruk would not WANT TO keep Trident in a country no longer part of the uk…”

Emm…HARDLY THEIR CHOICE !!!

NATO. “you are out”.

Nicola. “Ok, tell WM tae get their nukes tae fuck then on day one after a YES vote, and oh aye, keep yer BATO Ships OUT OF SCOTTISH WATERS, we slending those waters to Russia for “training exercises, just for the laughs”.

NATO. “Bugger”!!!