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Wings Over Scotland

From the archives #14

Posted on June 29, 2020 by

We were rummaging around semi-aimlessly in the vaults last night, readers, and we were rather startled to come across this:

Shows what YOU lot know, eh?

Wings, of course, is actually good at predicting stuff, so we DID see PM Boris coming, three years in advance:

Unlike certain people we could mention.

In that June 2016 article we were warning that a factionally-divided Labour were in no danger of winning the next election, although we were a few months out on when that might be (and to be fair we overestimated the number of MPs who’d have the integrity to quit Labour over Corbyn and join a new party):

So while we were on the subject of Labour being hopelessly unfit for office, it was fun to revisit another finding from the same May 2014 poll:

Ten years is 2024, which means that barring any dramatic unscheduled events, next year’s Holyrood election is Scottish Labour’s last chance to provide a First Minister before time runs out. If you’ve got money on it, folks, you’re a braver person than us.

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    674 to “From the archives #14”

    1. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Get your party sorted then think about claiming the high ground.

      Principles of Bioethics

    2. schrodingers cat says:

      tomorrow cam, its pedo xtian types like you who will get it in the neck

      enjoy 🙂

    3. schrodingers cat says:

      you aint seen nuthin yet cam

    4. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Night, night, and try to remember I know stuff you don’t even know exists. 😉

    5. schrodingers cat says:

      the gloves are most definitely off

    6. dakk says:

      Not sure this site is really is pro indy now tbh, or not for much longer at least.

      When Rev Stuart started obsessing about gra and cheerleading for jk, he made a veiled threat of whether it might not be worth fighting for Scottish independence.

      Beginning to sound conditional.

      Sounded like he is dead against GRA per se rather than mainly as an impedement to indy.

      He is a Reverend after all.

    7. schrodingers cat says:

      Night, night, and try to remember I’ve been in places so fuckin miserable you dont have the imagination to dream of such realities

      sleep tight ma wee scone

      your about to find out 🙂

    8. K1 says:

      He’s not a reverend. Don’t take ma word, watch his interview with Alex Salmond.

    9. twathater says:

      Capella I’ve had a few interactions with you regarding your capability to excuse NS’s non focus on independence , you have at all times defended her gradualism but also cautioned against the GRA amendments and Hate Crime Bill even to the extent of advising people to delay making up their minds as you felt that the GRA policy would be shelved until after independence

      Whilst you have been totally sympathetic towards the people suffering dysphoria you have also explained in great detail , as above , what these amendments mean to you personally and the effect it will have on other females and their willingness to vote for the SNP in the future

      I find it despicable that people will totally disregard females rightful objections to these regressive policies and basically tell them to shut up close their eyes and think of indy ,whilst ignoring the massive elephant in the room that is introducing these policies , instead of trying to force a guilt trip on women who refuse to concede their hard earned rights they should be equally outraged that your being asked to do so

      I desperately want independence for MY country but I also want a government that listens to the people who elect them not one who IMPOSES their skewed version of progressiveness on them . We have enough lies and pish being foisted on us by the WM arseholes we don’t need the Scottish version

    10. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 3.47
      Well said Capella has been an absolute gem in keeping us informed of the GRA issues on here…and I can only add that this issue is of interest to the Rev and it his bloody site, if he wants it included as a topic then those who don’t like it should put up, shut up or leave!
      What arrogance … to come here and tell other’s what cannot be discussed and to add to it a subject the site owner himself judges to to be “valid”..

    11. Joseph says:

      Team England starting to lose all the highly skilled, highly paid jobs in the air and car industry that they never thought of sharing with Team Scotland.

      So do we give a fuck?

      Do we fuck.

      Give them a taste of how it feels to live in a decent jobs wilderness,,,ie Scotland.

      Rot in hell engerland.

    12. Joseph says:

      Thatcher was like Scotland’s first Corona Virus.

      She destroyed Scotland and stole our Oil and Gas money (which funded Canary Warf and other big London projects) in a few short years.

      Did England care?

      Did they fuck.

      We were told to get back in our box and eat our porridge.

      Scotland turned into a low income economy overnight.

      And the Polls show that half of Scots want the present set up to continue.

      You don’t know who to get angry with, your fellow Scots, or Westminster.

    13. susan says:

      I agree with you @twathater. We’d soon hear people scream in anger if the only vehicle for independence espoused right wing policies a la Farage and expected it to be put aside as a side issue in the quest for independence.

    14. Polly says:

      “Although no Robespierre Ms Black might do well to ponder on the bitter fruits of unbridled zeal.”

      I’ve always seen her more as a Saint-Just myself.

    15. Ottomanboi says:

      Some lesbians have penises….
      And without this man none of this would have been possible.
      A good living, a very good living for some $$$$$

    16. Terry says:

      Remember how jo Swinson got destroyed in the run up to dec19 election on her trans position? She also lost her seat and the Lib Dem’s tanked.

      While we are all passionate about indy on here many of your average voter floats about. The tories and their pals in the media would likely go in hard on the GRA and hate crime bill knowing the vast majority of the public are against it. Many voters with half a brain would reject snp on this. They might switch their vote or more likely stay home.

      So wheesht for Indy won’t work. Sweep this issue under the carpet at your peril.

      However just like Covid it withers in the sunlight and the more light shone on this science denying claptrap and arguably blackface for women the more ridiculous it seems. The whole modus operandi of the TRA approach is sneaking things through before the public is aware. Well thanks to it being aired this tactic might not work.

      Check out the latest video on Out for Indy. Great that there’s some movement on rights for minorities but no mention of Indy. Remember abusing a trans person is a hate crime already. Misogyny is not. Self ID will roll back women’s sex based rights. This is happening. And we won’t stand for it.

      If you dig deeper there’s a disturbing amount of money involved in drugs companies profiting from puberty blockers. Plus gay erasure. Threats of violence against women and men for speaking out are very real too

    17. Gary45% says:

      Just had a quick look at the late posts last night.
      Calm down with the threats of”dancing round the handbags”.
      There are a lot more serious issues to be addressed.

    18. Ottomanboi says:

      Without question a friend of Madame la Guillotine! Ssssshhhhchunk!

    19. Breeks says:

      Polly says:
      1 July, 2020 at 8:40 am
      “Although no Robespierre Ms Black might do well to ponder on the bitter fruits of unbridled zeal.”

      I’ve always seen her more as a Saint-Just myself….

      3rd strike with a French Revolutionary twist? In 1794 Robespierre and Saint-Just introduced the Law of 22 Prairial. The law established a new category of “enemies of the people” in terms so vague that virtually anyone could be accused, convicted, and marched off to the guillotine…

      The good news is, this law went too far for many of the people, and it was the undoing of Robespierre.

    20. jfngw says:


      The LibDem’s had the same number of seats in Scotland after the Dec election than they did before it, their vote share increased by 2.8%.

      There were many reasons Jo Swinson lost, she was an inept leader, she lived almost as far away from her constituency as it was possible, her convoluted elocution was ridiculed. Her stance on trans issues may have played a part but I suspect it was a minor one, twitter and comments on here do not influence that many in her constituency.

      Also it is unlikely there will be a major media backlash on this subject, Labour/LibDem’s and Green’s are all fully behind it. That leaves you with the Tories to vote for, who would have passed it at WM but have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

    21. Polly says:

      Bob Mack says:
      To everybody on Wings.

      I’m with you and Breeks. That the smoke bomb thrower last night supports the Sophists isn’t surprising with some of the sophistry spouted. Someone else joked it might be Murrell but sounded more like the rather empty but pugnacious other Peter, Wishart, to me and we all know his form now so it’s not something to aspire to be.

    22. Polly says:

      Breeks “The good news is, this law went too far for many of the people, and it was the undoing of Robespierre.”

      Exactly what I was thinking. The drag queen and now the challenge to Sturgeon means there’s hope since the Teddy thing.

    23. Juteman says:

      The Cat was a regular poster on here before it descended into the Daily Mail comment section.
      For the first time in months, I really enjoyed reading last nights comments.

    24. Joe says:

      Would it be possible to conduct a campaign of deception? What if we had an indy party that wanted a ‘final referendum’ coupled with basic good governance (to gather as much support as possible and no poisonous woke shite)?

      This party could make all the right noises, but what if the people who voted for the party (or wanted indy at all) were instructed en-mass via back channels (social media etc) to pretend to favor the Union?

      That would take quite a bit of discipline and to be maintained over several years.

      However that would set up all the conditions by which WM could be lured into another indy ref (ostensibly to finish off the indy cause) with seeming low favourability in the polls. Only at the time of voting would the truth be apparent.

      The main reason I consider this is because something similar is happening in the US right now – back channels opened to the public from whitehouse insiders to circumvent the mainstream media.

      Of course that party wont be the SNP.

      Just mulling

    25. jfngw says:


      Maybe you could get Alex Salmond to lead this cloak and dagger party, make him hide in plain sight. Get independence by deception, what could go wrong.

    26. Rm says:

      That’s the problem with politicians around the whole world, they have their own agenda their trying to push through, when their supposed to be pushing the agendas they were voted in for by the people who voted for them, we’re needing more honest down to earth people in charge well not in charge because their working for us, if they stop listening and working for what they were voted in for they should be sacked, but over time they form a cosy little closed shop pushing their own agenda, when the Scottish parliament started again it was going to be a people’s parliament but it’s getting more and more away from the normal folk, looking after the people should be their no1 priority but next to that should be independence, why can’t they do both at the same time the SNP have plenty politicians down at Westminster and Holyrood, you hardly see any of them pushing for Independence the people are starting to demand why not?

    27. Polly says:


      Since I’m newish I haven’t made it through all archive comments I hadn’t realised that. Yes, sounds like he/she/they did shake things up and great if you enjoyed it. Whether the smoke bombs enthused anyone here, far less folk like me, to follow his/her/their (its) course is another matter.

      A previous post on another thread by Breeks was one of the only things I’d read for a long time from anyone or anywhere that sparked some enthusiasm in me. Smoke bombs disrupt but all they do is leave people coughing.

    28. Joe says:


      The US administration currently runs just such an operation. Military intelligence from the whitehouse to online free speech boards instructing supporters whats happening while the correct line is taken in public by the administration for the purposes of optics.

      Besides – anyone that thinks that Scotland will be independent simply by typing how much they hate tories on blog comment sections, showing up at marches and then casting a single vote at the right time is totally deluded.

      The communication infrastructure is there to seriously organise on multiple levels.

      Instead people are sitting around waiting for the controlled assets who run the SNP to get them an indy ref.

      Modern political warfare has to be waged using all the tools at peoples disposal.

      Scots, unfortunaately, are still stuck in the times of Thatcher.

      The leaders of the Scottish independence movement, you know who you are, need to be thinking outside the box and adapting strategies with it.

      Of course – you could all just go on twitter and slaver about how much you fucking hate Trump or Farage.

      You know what im talking about, don’t you Jfngw? What is it? Getting boring now that your Covid-19 misinformation work is slowing down for the time being?

    29. Polly says:

      I’ve just realised Teddy’s second name is hope. I made a pun up above and never realised. Sorry.

    30. Capella says:

      @ twathater Liz g Terry – thx for comments above. I had to get some sleep so left the field to CBB and SC. The Cat was in a feral mode but that’s OK. He obviously thinks the average voter doesn’t care about GRA. I think they just don’t know. Yet.

    31. robertknight says:


      “There were many reasons Jo Swinson lost,”

      Her failure to support a local indoor bowls club which was losing its venue, courtesy of a local authority leisure centre re-vamp, had roughly 300 constituents, predominantly pensioners, actively campaigning against her. The club members triumphantly claimed her scalp after the result was announced. If she had supported them, she’d have held on – albeit by the skin of her teeth.

    32. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Seriously ,what is this man talking about?

    33. Scozzie says:

      Juteman @ 9.54pm
      Really? It all seemed a bit unhinged to me.
      The old guard wingers seem to want to hark back to the days of their total control of the BLT comments.

      Can’t speak for others, but I lurked for many years before posting as it seemed that to utter even a chick of disagreement on SNP blind faith got a barrage of pile ons. And I got my fair share of peffers, geeo, threpner etc shite.

      Good that SC is back posting but didn’t look like a positive advert for the so called ‘good old days’.

    34. Republicofscotland says:

      I’m pretty shocked at Pete Wishart’s U-turn on a Plan B, if Westminster continues to deny Scotland its democratic right to choose whether it wants to leave or remain in this horrible one sided union.

    35. Capella says:

      The National front page. Pete Wishart calls for an EU backed Indyref2 if Westminster refuses S30.

    36. Joe says:

      Actually, forget my last 2 posts.

      I just remembered the last time I took a look at Scottish Indy twitter.

      You cant teach an old dog new tricks.

      But perhaps its more apt to say that you can’t teach a wild monkey not to throw shit.

    37. Capella says:

      @ Republicofscotland – snap! I too thought this development worth comment, the day after the extension deadline passes.

    38. schrodingers cat says:


      i guarantee you my name aint pete

      if it suits your agenda to paint me as pro gra, then fill yer boots

      personally, im not sure which side i dislike to most.

      @ lizg

      i never said people shouldnt discuss this issue, i said they shouldnt discuss it to the detriment of all others.
      and hey presto, every comment this morning is about CWD,

      including some deluded fukcwit saying “remember how swinson lovt her seat cos of her stance on gra?”

      this delusion is your fault, own it

    39. Andy Ellis says:

      Wishart is at it. Just more gradualist obfuscation. Light on detail and long on pious hope and aspiration. If nothing else it shows he and his trimmer mates in the SNP leadership are a bit rattled at the growing frustration with the shameful lack of action from the party.

      His cunning new plan simply punts #indyref2 into the long grass: we’ll be lucky to have it within the “real” generation so beloved of British nationalists.

      So….#indyref2029 anyone?

    40. McDuff says:

      Joseph 8.17
      Ain’t that the truth.

    41. jfngw says:


      And you can’t stop yourself writing shit, you should really start posting as Mr Subterfuge, the man with a plan, a shit plan but full marks for thinking inside the box.

    42. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      I’ll leave this here just cos.

    43. Allium says:

      Swinson didn’t lose her seat because of GRA, but she lost a great deal of credibility as a leader due to her car crash TWAW interviews pre-election. The LibDem post-election anaylsis confirmed it, as opaI’m still grateful to her for it. That said, she wasn’t as naïve as all that – the large donations that came her way from backing change meant she had to pay the piper. Suspect she just thought it would go under the radar, it had up until then.

    44. schrodingers cat says:

      @Andy Ellis

      what else can the sg actually do?

      you would be better employed by discussing what we do if we win the he 2021 on a mandate of indy (with 50%+) and bojo still refuses to accept our indy

      what will you do then? hide in the long grass?

    45. Polly says:

      I agree with what Capella has to say in almost everything, except still having some faith in Sturgeon, while I agreed with nothing the screeching cat had to say except ‘we’re in this on our own’ to get over the line.

      People in general don’t know yet about much of the debate on self ID, I was one for a good while who thought it harmless, but as more folk awaken to the risks, not only to women but to society and language etc., more will turn away from SNP if they continue to stand by it in its present form. As someone before stated once it fully hits the masses the Conservatives opposition to it might seem to a good many a bastion of safety in comparison, and what then? Doesn’t bear thinking about. Mhairi Black forcing the issue is good I think, better get the decisions on that out and over – one way or other – since it’s not going away.

    46. schrodingers cat says:

      waken up at the back

      schrodingers cat says:
      30 June, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    47. Sinky says:

      Ian Murray again at Scottish Questions attacking the SNP / Scottish government rarther than holding the UK government to account which is what he was elected to do.

    48. jfngw says:


      And yet the LibDem’s increased their vote in Scotland, all under the same policy. It was here ineptitude on nearly everything that lost her credibility, but if you believe it was a single issue then feel free. It makes it easy for the LibDem’s to brush under the carpet they had elected a fool as leader (she reminded me a lot of Kezia Dugdale, a rabbit in the headlights under pressure, the desire to have a female leader no matter how inept).

    49. Juteman says:

      @scozzie 11.11am
      This site was never an SNP site.
      It was always 100% an Indy site, not the shite that passes for BTL comments these days.
      I think the Cat was simply pointing that out.;-)

    50. Polly says:

      Hey Cat 🙂

      Nowhere in my post did I at all paint you as pro GRA. Nor did I think it. Possibly your long night on the tiles leaves you rather worse for wear. I only accused you of throwing smoke bombs like an adolescent.

    51. Republicofscotland says:

      “@ Republicofscotland – snap! I too thought this development worth comment, the day after the extension deadline passes.”

      Yes Capella well spotted, I was also thinking about that myself, a no deal is now beginning to look like a foregone conclusion.

      Meanwhile the Scots Tories helped the British governments Immigration Bill pass its Third reading in the House of Commons, its a bill that could do untold damage to Scotland’s economy.

      Maybe Wishart, et al finally realise that we need to exit this rotten union.

    52. jfngw says:

      One point that is evident and brought up by Mr Subterfuge is that there does seem a lot of pop-up posters here that are hiding in plain sight as independence supporters, they will massage your ego to give the impression you are correct but highlight the negatives of the SNP. Not Mr Subterfuge he just goes for the out and out insult, I respect him for that at least.

    53. schrodingers cat says:


      the libdems have gone into hiberation since dec ge. the realisation by all commentators that they are now a minority party. the hubris by swinson about being the next PM then crashing and burning on the night has made them a laughing stock. their credibility is shot and are still in hiding. nary a peep from any off their mps. even wullie rennie has shut up and is now shaving the walls in the towns of fife

    54. Scozzie says:

      Pete Wishart – jeez the man’s got some front! He wants the EU to do Scotland’s bidding.

      News for Wishart…they couldn’t interfere while the the UK was in the EU. Why would they want to interfere when we’re out on our arse?

      If there’s any remote chance of a trade deal, the EU (as the mammoth versus the mouse UK), will have got everything it wants from the deal including our fishing). So what’s in it for them?

      I’ve said before, they’re a political block not a charity. The only chance would be for Scotland to appeal to the EU courts and the SNP have no guts to do the courts route (and Pete you’ve got 6 months and counting down if that’s the plan!!!).

      The simple and best route is an election plebiscite but they ain’t got the guts for that either. So we’ll continue to have the likes of Wishart and Co sending the YES movement on a wild goose chase and so we keep on the merry go round.

      News for you Wishart, Scotland needs to do it for ourselves – you ain’t got no haunners in the playground and nobody is going to fight our fight for us. Jeez he’s a complete useless fecking waste of space.

    55. robertknight says:

      Wishy-Washout showing again that the cringe is strong in the upper echelons of the SNP…

      We want IndyRef2, but only if Westminster says so.

      Oh no, wait, what’s that?

      We want IndyRef2, but only if Brussels says so, if Westminster says no.

      What next if Brussels blanks us???

      The Vatican???

    56. schrodingers cat says:


      but you did liken me to other pro gra supporters?

      as i said, have a fukcin cracker

    57. Andy Ellis says:

      @SC 11.39am

      You’ve not been paying attention. Like a few others, including Stu Campbell, I’ve long advocated making Holyrood 2021 elections plebiscitary. It’s not rocket science. My response to Wishart’s cunning plan on his blog is reproduced below to explain:

      “Just more gradualist obfuscation. Nothing to see here, move along. Go back to your constituencies and prepare for #indyref2029, because it’s hardly likely to happen anytime sooner with trimmers like Pete and his ilk at the helm. Why is the timetable so extended Pete? It makes no sense. We have multiple unused mandates which are essentially meaningless as long as the SNP remains intent on accepting a British nationalist veto on the right of Scots to self determination. In the end, is really IS that simple.

      We don’t need many of these steps. Announce next week, in tandem with all other pro-independence parties and civic organisations that we expect Westminster to honour the 2012 Edinburgh Agreement precedent. Give them a time limit to respond. If they fail to answer or say “now is not the time” again, announce that the Holyrood elections in 2021 will be a de facto plebiscite. That’s Plan B. It’s not rocket science. It is clear. The international community will understand it and accept a majority of pro independence votes as valid.

      The question you and the rest of the faint hearts in the leadership have to answer is what are you scared of?”

      I don’t believe the international community would withhold recognition if we had been refused a S30 Order and fought Holyrood 2021 elections on an explicitly plebiscitary mandate. Pete and his mates just want more time, more mandates, the goldest of gold standards. We’ll all be deid before he’s finally ready to start a campaign.

    58. schrodingers cat says:


      i posted barniers entire announcement last night

      the eu is still concerned about getting some sort of agreement, especially on financial services.

      the uk bombing out in 5 months with no deal at all, will hurt the eu as well.

      they wont irritate or piss off wm until at the earliest jan 1st, or until any chance of any deal in the offing

    59. Allium says:

      Hi jfngw, I think the Lib Dem increase here had a lot to do with tactics, eg in Gethins’ seat. It was easy to ignore her GRA stance here anyway, since it was reserved Westminster policy and Not For Viewers In Scotland.

      The 2019 LD internal review references Swinson’s falling performance with women as the campaign went on. Most of her biggest TV and radio car crashes were on GRA so yeah, I think it reflected badly on her. Even if I don’t agree with someone, I can respect them if they argue the point well. She couldn’t & the ridicule was toxic.

    60. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @ Andy Ellis, 11.59

      Spot on!

    61. Polly says:

      No, nowhere in the things I’ve written about you did not liken you to pro GRA supporters. But what is a pro GRA supporter anyway? Depends on what the GRA bill ends up actually looking like, and since most folk do support genuine trans people but would like more gatekeeping than at present suggested, then I’d venture we are all potential GRA supporters. So no insult about that intended.

      I didn’t know your sex and these days as we know too well it’s better to be careful than sorry in the great free speech experiment. Talking of the French revolution earlier, wasn’t it Robespierre who overthrew the Cult of Reason only to institute the Cult of Supreme Being? I’m also glad to see you’ve moved on from smoke bombs to crackers. Have a good day.

    62. schrodingers cat says:


      it isnt pete wishart who will set the agenda

      its the voters in scotland,

      and announcing the 2021 he will be a plebicite next week is a ridiculous idea, paramount to emailing the party manifesto 10 months before the actual election?

      we wait until the election campaign has started and 2nd hand carlaw announces his parties manifesto is nothing more than “no to indy”. then we make the move. by then, it will be too late for wm to introduce any legislation to stop us doing this and the unionists will already be commited to taking part in the election

      you may think im a faintheart and its true, im not very brave, but you’d be amazed how fukcin smart i am

    63. Polly says:

      Andy Ellis plan would be useful if the party would do it.

      I agree with Allium that the problem with Swinson was most definitely that she failed to argue successfully. Very few people could stand the questioning she did and with her position on TWAW and come out successful, but Sturgeon would do a heck of a lot better. And of course Sturgeon herself has been wise enough to say very little on the subject in public.

    64. jfngw says:


      As Schrod’s cat reminded me her nonsense about being the next PM in waiting made her more of laughing stock than anything she said about transgender, not quite sure what the motivation was there for her, even the public can spot excessive hubris on this level, or did she truly believe it and was that deluded.

    65. schrodingers cat says:


      the exact definition of gra…………?

      soz, you’re confusing me with someone who gives a fukc

    66. Juteman says:

      Watching PMQs just now.
      Twice Boris Johnson referred to the Scottish ‘administration’.
      That was no accident.
      Easier to close an administration than a government.

    67. dakk says:

      K1 says:
      1 July, 2020 at 2:41 am
      He’s not a reverend.

      That’s one thing now resolved then.Cheers.

    68. jfngw says:


      Good leaders never actually answer these questions directly, they phrase the answer so people hear what they want to hear. Like many song lyrics you interpret the song how you want to. Tony Blair was an expert at this and fooled many for some time.

    69. schrodingers cat says:


      it matters little if it was political rhetoric or if she really believed her own delusional hubris

      the outcome is the same. the remaining libdems are left with 2 men and a dug shivering in a phonebox. they no longer even have the courage to make public announcements for fear of ridicule

    70. Sinky says:

      Once again at Scottish Questions Labour and Tory MPs lied about Scottish Care Home deaths. They have provided no evidence and everyone knows official England figures are underestimated.

      Other yoons are writing to the press on this subject.

      Rather than naval gazing,its time Wingers started to tackle Unionists on their lies.

      Excess deaths (many in care homes) can be seen here at foot of maps and graphs. England much higher.

    71. Scozzie says:

      Juteman @11.46pm
      I agree it was never an SNP site and Stu never intended it to be anything other than an independence site and still does. But the tone of the BTL comments back then was largely made up of SNP party faithful.

      I think the turning point was 2017 GE onwards, followed by the utter shit-show of the SNP’s stance on Brexit that made some SNP critical lurkers share their opinions.

      And the Wingers old guard didn’t like that kind of debate. Some have flounced off in a huff under the guise of the the site being infiltrated with trolls, 77th blah blah.

      But in reality they couldn’t handle that not all the YES movement fawn at the feet of the SNP and have some legitimate criticisms of the SNPs lack of action on driving towards independence.

      And they flock to other bloggers sites e.g. WGD etc who are more aligned to their views – the ‘just one more mandate’ faction while at the same time criticising this site. jeez!

    72. CameronB Brodie says:

      Let get something clear. I wasn’t threatening anyone last night, schrodingers cat simply misrepresented my patter, as is his want.

    73. Sinky says:

      @Scozzie the problem is that this site has been hijacked by people with a narrow agenda while losing focus on the bigger picture and the concerns of most voters.

      Another great article from Business for Scotland

    74. Sarah says:

      @ Andy Ellis and Quinie from Angus: A thought on the subject of international recognition has only recently crystallised in my mind. That is “Do Black Countries’ Opinions Matter?”

      Colin Dunn has a postcard mapping the 60 countries which have gained independence from the UK. Since 1960 there are 40, all “coloured”, many of them African, some very small in population.

      How many of these would recognise Scotland? I would presume that all would be thrilled to do so. [Unless bribed with promises of large amounts of money for their countries or their politicians.]

      So why the emphasis here, and elsewhere, on whether the EU countries would recognise Scotland? Don’t the black countries count?

      My view is that yes, they do matter, and that their recognition is plenty. Add the Republic of Ireland and all other formerly mis-treated countries i.e. all of them!!

    75. schrodingers cat says:


      you dont fawn at the feet of the snp, fair enough, so who do you suggest people vote for in 2021 he?

      btw, support for the snp is currently at 54% in the polls, are you suggesting none of these 54% are yes supporters.

      the reverse is true, its you who are the insignificant fag end of the yes movement. delusional as rise was

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      You might be a fan of the cat but don’t I think he’s a democrat. He certainly has no respect for the law. Is that someone you can support?

    77. Robert Graham says:

      According to Bawjaws you know that English fkr who thinks he’s a Prime minister
      There is No BORDER yep no fkn difference between England and Scotland

      When was it when Scotland was assimilated when exactly did England absorb Scotland.

      Every Single SNP MP should make a point of openly calling this fkr a LIAR who gives a monkeys if they get banned from that Cesspool that is Westmonster , get them to fk out of that place cooperate with nothing make the country ungovernable

    78. Juteman says:

      If you cant see the influx of folk flinging dead cats and photos of squirrels being posted about on here then you maybe need to have a think about it.

    79. schrodingers cat says:


      i dont remember you threatening me either???

      a fair few insults between us but hey, we both give as good as we got

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      You might be a fan of the cat but don’t I think he’s a democrat.


      good, then again, im not a politician nor am i asking you to vote for me

    81. Sarah says:

      Can I refer you all to a really good comment at 12.32? : )

    82. Scozzie says:

      Schrodingers Cat @ 12.05pm
      Yes I read the statement that you posted and it was full of red lines for the EU. Of course they would like a deal, but they ain’t going to budge on a single thing that is detriment to the EU. Hence the UK is in a no win situation (from the UK’s perspective).
      So in reality the UK probably needs to bow out with no deal as they’ve ballsed this up big time.

    83. Sarah says:

      Try again 🙂

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Good. So you’re not denying your hostility to the law, so perhaps folk will start to see you the way I do. I’m a supporter of indy but I support democracy and the rule of law first. Best remember that, before trying to convince folk that you’re perspective is worth listening to.

    85. Polly says:


      Yes indeed, and hands up I was initially fooled by Sturgeon. The only thing I remember about Blair though and that election is family being overjoyed to wipe out tories up here. I agree ‘good’ politicians or orators of all stamps can get multiple people with multiple different views to see something in what they say that appeals to them. But when push come to shove as it always does there has to be a reckoning of some kind by at least a portion of the populace when they wake up.


      I’m about a quarter way through the link you posted. I’ll let you know what I think when I get to the end.

    86. Beaker says:

      @Sinky says:
      1 July, 2020 at 12:32 pm
      “the problem is that this site has been hijacked by people with a narrow agenda while losing focus on the bigger picture and the concerns of most voters.
      Another great article from Business for Scotland”

      Working away at home, I’m popping occasionally and I see the epic clash of handbags is still ongoing (is it clutch bags or full bodied granny bags?) . Nice to find an oasis of calm 🙂

      Sturgeon may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but even people I know who can’t stand her thinks her approach has been generally good, despite a couple of fuckups.

      Given that in England (Leicester excepted) it is going to be pure bloody bedlam this weekend, I’d prefer to remain cautious and see what impact that has.

    87. Polly says:


      I agree all former colonies probably would support our independence wish. Unfortunately, as the UN sometimes show, lots of the ‘lesser’ countries of the world getting together to vote to condemn abuses don’t always get the recognition they deserve, even when they’re in the majority of the countries of the world. Bigger countries and blocks do hog the limelight.

    88. Bob Mack says:

      Support for the SNP may well stand at 54%, but that is for governance and not necessarily because all of that 54% want Independence.

      People in Scotland vote for the SNP for many reasons, but prime among those is that they mitigate for Westminster policy.

      Perhaps there should be a poll asking how many will vote SNP if there were no mitigations in place and the whole of the UK was on a level footing.

    89. schrodingers cat says:


      i think you’re probably right, i merely pointed out that the eu wont antigonise wm until the chance of any deal is still in the offing

      even then, i doubt the eu will stick its neck out for us. im a french national and spend time on french political blogs and in 2016, when nicola met with 2 eu presidents, not everyone was happy with the eu interfering in what they considered to be eu members internal politics. the eu is a trade organisation.

      im not saying the eu and eu countries wont stick their necks on our behalf, i just doubt it and suggest that any plans we make should not be dependent on the eu doing so and just be pleasantly surprised if they do

    90. liz says:

      There was a great prog on last night about the Skye Bridge and the fight against the tolls.

      They had to fight a long battle, it took effort, time and courage.
      Many ordinary citizens still have criminal records because they refused to pay.
      They actually put people in jail.
      The bridge cost about £20m and the Bank of America raked in about £80m

      To cut a long story short, when in opposition Labour were screeching at the Tories about the poll cost being the highest in Europe and it was a disgrace yadda, yadda.
      So when Lab got voted in with Blair in charge,the islanders were delighted, guess what Labour did nothing and continued with the targeting of those protesting.

      The SNP will end up the same as SLAB if they don’t keep their promises.
      I think Wishy washy is beginning to realise that, hence his calming of the restless natives but we will not be fooled with their timidity over indy

    91. Republicofscotland says:

      The absurdity of the British government is plain to see with Johnson’s latest endeavour, as he vows to allow three million Hong Kong citizens into the UK, whilst forcing out immigrants and making life difficult for EU citizens.

      This doesn’t even take into account the Windrush scandal, the Grenfell scandal and the Go Home vans scandal.

      Do I believe Johnson when he says he’ll allow three million Hong Kongers into the UK? Certainly not, the evidence suggests otherwise.

    92. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sara 12.32pm

      Oh, I agree all countries matter, but some matter more than others….? That’s just the politics of international relations realism for you I’m afraid! The trouble is you need a critical mass of countries to recognise any newly independent state, and it matters if the major political and economic powers (UN security council, EU, Japan, India, Brazil, G7, G20) refuse to do so. Of course in some cases, it won’t matter: Kosovar indy still isn’t recognised by countries with an axe to grind against UDI like Spain, Russia etc.

      I seem to recall that it was reported at the time of the Catalan indy vote that a few African states were about to recognise Catalan indy, but not sure if it actually happened. The thing is smaller third world countries are often subject to pressure from larger countries not to do things on pain of losing aid, investment, trade and other benefits.

      In the final analysis it may not really matter if “some” countries refuse to recognise our independence, the problem would be if enough failed to do so (or were pressurised not to) to make things particularly difficult in terms of trade, access to international institutions and investment, impacting travel etc. We don’t want to end up like Northern Cyprus, Transnistria, Somaliland etc.

    93. Republicofscotland says:

      As Scotland sees a fall in virus deaths for the ninth week in a row, a increase of cases has arisen in the Dumfries and Galloway region, which is near the English border.

      Not to point the finger of blame at England, however if Leicester can be in lockdown, and Victoria in Australia also be back in lockdown, then I can see no reason,if need be, why Scotland’s border cannot be restricted, latest radio news, cases have been confirmed as cross border cases.

      Johnson claims there’s no such thing as a border between Scotland and England, and any attempt to restrict access would be shameful.

    94. jfngw says:

      Countries will not recognise us because they like us, they may even love us as a people. Politicians make decisions on what is best for their country, if they see supporting Scotland as badly hitting them financially then I would be less confident of support. And don’t expect them to shun England because you believe they dislike them, if that was the case why are they not shunning them now.

    95. Juteman says:

      This site was once the most read Indy site, I don’t know the current stats, and I used to recommend it for newbies to the cause. The BTL comments were often as interesting and informative as the articles themselves. The Brits must have hated it.
      I don’t recommend it anymore. Anyone having their first look for information will be puzzled by the wall to wall cut and pastes, and all the talk about chicks with dicks. They would be convinced that Indy was just for nutters. Where was all the positive discussion about what could be gained by getting our country back?
      Did it become like this by accident, or is there the slightest chance that some of the newer posters have a different agenda??

    96. Scozzie says:

      Schrodinger’s cat @ 12.34pm
      It’s the old ‘who you gonna vote for’ trope.

      Maybe some of us want them to get their act together so that we wouldn’t need to be so critical of their lack of direction, motivation, what looks like desire for winning elections and comfy devolved power but not actually achieving independence…

    97. jfngw says:


      I don’t think the intention of track and trace is to lockdown anywhere unless it gets out of control. It is to isolate the positive cases and have their contacts also self-isolate until tested. If this works there would be no need to lockdown or exclude anyone. But it does rely on the public playing ball, not sure that some of the posters on here will though.

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for taking the interest. Take it at your leisure and please pass it on if you think it useful.

    99. schrodingers cat says:

      Scozzie says:
      It’s the old ‘who you gonna vote for’ trope.

      it isnt a trope, its a regularly asked question on political blog sites

      i noticed you didnt answer. are you a politician?

    100. schrodingers cat says:

      Juteman says:
      Did it become like this by accident, or is there the slightest chance that some of the newer posters have a different agenda??

      nail, head, hit

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apparently you’ve not been paying attention to the legal insight I’ve been littering the place with. I understand this stuff, and you could as well, if you were a bit more open to practical advice.

    102. schrodingers cat says:

      “The SNP will end up the same as SLAB if they don’t keep their promises.
      I think Wishy washy is beginning to realise that, hence his calming of the restless natives but we will not be fooled with their timidity over indy”

      so we are presently in the middle of a pandemic which, when over, we will be straight into the most important election of our lives and your here on an indy blog site telling folk not to vote snp??


    103. Scozzie says:

      Schrodinger’s Cat @ 1.36pm
      I thought my reply said it all that needed to be said. We’re backed into a corner, we have no choice, we’re having to hold our noses. It that a good state of affairs?

      We’re voting for a party that is for independence in name but not in action.

      I’m bloody furious with them. Get on with the job.

      And who loses out – the people who want to live in an independent country. Coz right now we’re voting like lemmings for a party that is hell bent on delivering every so called progressive policy other than living in a progressive independent country – does that answer you question?

    104. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      Apparently you’ve not been paying attention to the legal insight I’ve been littering the place with.


      i didnt think anyone could be this delusional

    105. jfngw says:


      Possibly those posters are just tired out talking about the future that has never materialised. You can only discuss the same topics for so long before you start repeating yourself.

      I’ve been here a few years now, read many of the claims about how things would turn out. Here we are now effectively out of the EU, many of our powers transferred to London and seemingly no nearer independence and many posting here telling me the way to achieve this is to stop voting for the only party that currently can deliver it.

      I’ve looked at the ISP, it may be unfortunate but I believe they will crash and burn, the numbers don’t work unless they take 30% of the SNP vote and hope the SNP retain all their current constituency seats. In fact what they need is to keep the SNP at a level where they hold the balance of power or they become just another party shouting from the sidelines.

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Your ignorance and disregard for the law, makes you a right dodgy fucker, IMHO.


    107. schrodingers cat says:

      Scozzie says:
      I thought my reply said it all that needed to be said.

      except who folk should vote for??

      we are in exactly the corner the scottish voters put us.

      the question is, what do we do about it?

    108. Polly says:

      Hey Cat (again) 🙂

      I’m a newer poster and yes Self ID concerns me not only because I’m a woman but because I support independence. Yes I talk about it if it’s brought up. Seeing what talking about proposed changes has done to Stuart brought me here. Seeing what warning of it has done to Glinner I’m now a fan. Seeing what J K Rowling has thrown at her for expressing her opinion means I stand with her and Johann Lamont and Baroness Nicholson and every other woman who expresses concern and is attacked. And though you care nothing about the issue, it is the behaviour around the issue itself which has done the damage and other people do care.

      None of that means I’m, or people like me, are plants or have agendas other than independence.

    109. schrodingers cat says:

      jfngw says:

      Possibly those posters are just tired out talking about the future that has never materialised. You can only discuss the same topics for so long before you start repeating yourself.


      except for cameron, he started repeating himself from the get go

      the delays, the obfuscation and the deadline brinkmanship was the game that the unionists played, not the snp

      the isp will fail since they are only using the yes movement to promote their own pet project

      success for a list party depends on the snp voters trusting them. they didnt trust rise or solidarity, and what little trust the sg had has completely evapourated

      the isp supporters on this site are actively telling folk not to vote for the snp

      they will fail,

    110. schrodingers cat says:


      it isnt my bag

      i dont do mums net either

      its a distraction from issues that affect us all

      that and the fact the gra bill will almost certainly fail if it ever gets through the commitee stage, which it wont, when it comes to a vote in holyrood.

      its a non issue

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oi Cat. What makes you think your opinion is worth following? You don’t understand the law and have no respect for it. So how can you support democracy?

      Towards Developing a Natural Law Jurisprudence
      in the U.S. Patent System

    112. schrodingers cat says:


      maybe you arnt a plant, but you and your supporters are egged on by trolls who continually bring up the subject to the exclusion of all others.

      it has killed this site

      thats your bag

      own it

    113. schrodingers cat says:


      who said anything about democracy, i just enjoy fukcin wi’ your head


    114. jfngw says:

      @Polly @1:56

      What has any of that got to do with independence, Self ID is devolved it can happen whilst we are still devolved. In fact the best way to avoid it is get independence first then vote for a party opposed to it. Because if your first priority was independence then voting against the only party with a realistic chance of delivering it seem somewhat strange.

      Of course your alternative is to vote for a devolved Tory party, that will probably remove self ID plus any chance of a referendum ever in the future as they will change the law to make it near impossible to have any referendum, and don’t think this change can be reversed if they tie it deeper into the UK constitution.

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Thanks for your honesty, at last. Now, care to admit you don’t really have a clue?

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      The SNP simply needs to learn how the law works as a framework, rather than trying to disable it.

    117. schrodingers cat says:


      cam, cam, mon ami

      i thought you would be celebrating the latest news from your church, you know, the one where they say the now support same sex relationships.?

      as long as its between a consenting adult and a choir boy 🙂

    118. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      The SNP simply needs to learn how the law works as a framework, rather than trying to disable it.

      ill pass on yer peals of wisdom to joanna cherry qc

      she really needs to know how the law works

      you’re even more delusional than i first thought

    119. Polly says:

      No Cat I don’t own it, I throw that at the feet of the party that allowed this to become an issue that it has. And all very well your saying it won’t get through the statute books, but look at what has already happened off the books for women’s rights.

      And as I said in the previous post, the really bad issue is not the GRA itself but all that has been allowed to build up around it. Do you really think women will not now be constantly on guard to see if any other issues which affect us might not be hatching, or that we haven’t noticed just how misogynistic many men on the left, supposedly on our side, have been or like you disparage us for our concerns. But more importantly do you think that the trans rights activists who have been allowed to get away with such horrible conduct and been emboldened by the freedom of not being slapped down will happily go back and say ‘well we tried’ and give up gracefully? No they won’t. And a really good leader having helped open the door to that might have stayed the course to find a centre way through this here, instead all that’s happened is head down and ignore the furies that we’re created, so all sides are aggrieved. The sooner it’s dealt with the better for good or ill so everyone knows where they stand.

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Get tae. You have no legal substance to your opinion, fannybaws.


    121. schrodingers cat says:


      i have never disparage women for their concerns

      mainly cos i could give a fuck about it.

      it isnt important enough for me to have an opinion either way.

      what i do care about is that folk from both sides of your knitting ripping contest have destroyed this site and are under mining the indy campaign

      i promise you, you will earn no applause from the yes movement, men and women

    122. Polly says:

      jfngw 2.11

      I’ve never voted against SNP, not even in the list vote. Since I stopped voting labour in 2002 I have voted for them every time. I will vote for them again if I have to but I’m hoping for other independent party alternatives to arise which is a good thing anyway even outwith the present debate. And tory? You’re having a laugh 🙂

    123. schrodingers cat says:

      lol @cam

      someone as delusional as you really should be certified

      that would at least give legal substance to your delusional status

    124. Polly says:

      Then if Stuart is not happy with any post of mine he should tell me, not you. But you have a lovely day now.

    125. schrodingers cat says:


      but you are aware that many of your group even on here do advocate not voting snp even on the constituency vote?

      if you lie down with dogs etc

      btw, i was advocating tactical list voting on this blog when you still thought digital watches were a pretty neat idea

      so dont teach yer granny to suck eggs

    126. schrodingers cat says:


      stu is too hacked off to care anymore who posts what btl.

      you cant just disown your responsability for killing this blog site

    127. jfngw says:


      ‘Are you having a laugh’

      Well, kind off. But as Lab/Lib/Green would all support GRA in some form pretty close to the current proposals then Tory was the only option.

    128. Polly says:

      That was addressed to Kitty Catty of course.

    129. jfngw says:

      @Schrodingers cat

      Hey, don’t knock digital watches, I had a Sinclair Black Watch. Admittedly it was shit, but it increased battery production, never lasted more than a month.

    130. schrodingers cat says:


      if i think your talking bollox, im also entitled to say so?

    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      The cat can’t provide a legally robust argument, so he is out of his depth when it comes to understanding democracy.

      The Oxford Handbook of The History of Analytic Philosophy
      The Role of Phenomenology in Analytic Philosophy

    132. Polly says:

      jfngw Yes I realise all other leftish parties do support it too that’s why I’m so mad at the one I prefer being in power right now so know they’ll get the blame.

      Cat. Other people may do and say what they want doesn’t mean I’m responsible for it. And Stuart isn’t the only one fed up and if I’m lying down with anyone it’s him it seems to me. Or are you saying Stu has is a big old mangy dog with fleas? Now now kitty your claws are showing.

    133. schrodingers cat says:

      the delusion is stong in this one

      so we’re back to yer treatise on the isness of is?

      btw cam, i dont ever click on yer links, no one does, so dont waste yer time

    134. Polly says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      1 July, 2020 at 2:43 pm

      if i think your talking bollox, im also entitled to say so?

      Be my guest I like plain speaking and they’re much better than smoke bombs.

    135. schrodingers cat says:

      if you lie down with dogs etc is a saying

      qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent. (seneca)

      it means you should be cautious of the company you keep

      nothing actually to do with fleas

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Indeed. 😉

      Meaning making from life to language:
      The Semiotic Hierarchy and phenomenology

    137. schrodingers cat says:


      plain speaking is all i know

      except when cameron keeps posting links to treatises on the isness of is

      in those cases, i tend towards facetiousness and gratuitous insults. he loves it really 🙂

    138. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I’m no brain of Britain but I was able to learn this stuff after giving myself a serious brain injury. You’ve just got a closed mind to opinion that challenges your dogma. Honestly, you’d be more help if you stopped telling and started learning.

    139. schrodingers cat says:

      i have no dogma to challenge, on the otherhand, its your dogma thats getting run over by my kharma


    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just keep quacking cat, that’s all you can do.

      Intentionality and narrativity in phenomenological psychological research: Reflections on Husserl and Ricoeur

    141. schrodingers cat says:

      a quacking cat, there’s a novel image.

      you see i cant have a dogma, that would presuppose some sort of belief in morality or a god, as you do. but i dont, they are illusions, ghosts in your head

      i dont believe in ghosts either, they contain no matter or form, they only exist in the minds of people and do not agree with the laws of science.

      then again cam, the laws of science also contain no matter or form and also only exist in the minds of people

      better to believe in neither, that doesnt leave a lot left to actually believe in, but that’s ok, it is at least scientific 🙂

    142. jfngw says:

      As people predicted Boris Johnson is now blaming the public for his shambolic handling of the virus, ‘they don’t understand’. Those on here that hate Sturgeon and advocate not voting for the SNP want you to make Johnson’s vichy Tory the FM.

    143. Polly says:

      Hey Cat 🙂 for a last time today since I’m getting busy here.

      Of course I know that aphorism and as I said it was I’ll judged in you to use it, since by that reckoning you’re tainting the owner of the blog too since my views are no more extreme than his. As I say I’m more literary than philosophical and prefer Aristophanes to Seneca. I remember he wrote of dogs too (and the law) using the hanging of a dog for stealing cheese to make a point and make someone see the error of their ways. Points are better than smoke bombs even if they’re subtly made. Hope you have a good day.

    144. schrodingers cat says:

      jfngw says:
      As people predicted Boris Johnson is now blaming the public for his shambolic handling of the virus

      no surprises here

      but with the snp currently polling 54%, the people here are having little effect, come may 2021, they will be left twirling in the wind

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Your belief is your dogma, you tit.

    146. schrodingers cat says:


      i still dont know what point you think you are making by undermining the yes movement?

      no matter how subtly you think you are being

    147. schrodingers cat says:

      a dogma is an unchanging belief

      eg, yours, you tit 🙂

    148. jfngw says:

      What next, do you prefer Dantalion to Azreal?

    149. schrodingers cat says:

      jfngw says:
      What next, do you prefer Dantalion to Azreal?

      slight preference for bill doors 🙂

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Your unchanging belief appears to be that a respect for Natural Law, is a delusion of the religious zealot. This shows me you don’t understand how democracy works. So I think you need to get over yourself and start taking sound legal advice.

      Natural law is at the core of universality, so your party is attempting to gut any potential for Scots law to be impartial.

      Natural Resources and Natural Law Part I: Prior Appropriation

      In recent years there has been a resurgence of civil disobedience over public land policy in the West, sometimes characterized by armed confrontations between ranchers and federal officials. This trend reflects renewed assertions that applicable positive law violates the natural rights (sometimes of purportedly divine origin) of ranchers and other land users, particularly under the prior appropriation doctrine and grounded in Lockean theories of property.

      At the same time, Native Americans and environmental activists on the opposite side of the political-environmental spectrum have also relied on civil disobedience to assert natural rights to a healthy environment, based on public trust and other principles.

      This article explores the legitimacy of natural law assertions that prior appropriation justifies private property rights in federal grazing resources. A companion article will evaluate the legitimacy of public trust and related assertions of natural law to support environmental protection.

    151. schrodingers cat says:

      i preferred it when you were promoting yogic flying cam

    152. jfngw says:

      I see the UK gov are setting up a committee to try to make us more British, apparently it involves more Union flags. Good luck with that, it will be as useful as the school cormorant that commemorates those from the town of Sudbury who gave their lives to keep China British.

    153. schrodingers cat says:


      and by the way, its you who believes in sky faeries not me

      jesus walks into a hotel and slams 3 nails on the counter and says, “can you put me up for the night” ?


    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      You’re not an idiot cat, so start learning instead of quacking out the same old dogma.

      The relevance of Husserl’s phenomenological exploration of interiority to contemporary epistemology

    155. schrodingers cat says:

      its desperation jingw

      they have been punting the uj for years now on every item we buy and every show on the bbc being british something or other.

      this hasnt worked. they are losing, and they know it

    156. schrodingers cat says:

      instead of quacking out the same old dogma.

      lol, as you post the 100th never read hyperlink of this thread with no self awareness what so ever

      cam , me old fruit, let me guess, you live in an attic, just under the bridge to never never land? am i right?

    157. jfngw says:

      I see Ian Murray (Labour, Conservative sub branch) has joined the chorus ‘Give me union, or give us death’. He is more concerned about a border, they claim doesn’t exist, than the life of his constituents.

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You’ve never had to justify a legal right, have you? It is shame your degree in philosophy doesn’t appear to have armed you with a practical understanding of reality, or the human condition. You might be more constructive then. Just saying. 😉

      Intentionality and Symbolic Construction.
      The Phenomenological Background of Weyl’s Philosophy of

    159. schrodingers cat says:

      would the power for the sg to close our border need to be devolved from wm? and if it refuses, what can nicola actually do?

      maybe she cant do anything, in which case the only people who can actually close the border is us?

    160. schrodingers cat says:

      oh look
      another treatise from cam on how to separate the men from the boys at cameron’s local parish church

      i save you the bother of clicking on his link….

      hint………….you need a crowbar 🙂

    161. jfngw says:

      It seems Boris Johnson wants to take on Nicola Sturgeon in a war of words, this is going to be fun. For the older ones here it will be like the time Jack Bodell took on Jerry Quarry, the headline was ‘just a minute Bodell’. Buffoonery confronts intelligence.

    162. schrodingers cat says:

      You’ve never had to justify a legal right, have you? It is shame your degree in philosophy doesn’t appear to have armed you with a practical understanding of reality, or the human condition
      you know fuck all about me, i’ve been in places so fuckin miserable you dont have the imagination to even dream about

      dont assume to lecture me about reality or the human condition

    163. jfngw says:

      Anyone wonder why the UK cabinet is full of chancers and idiots, apparently they are not allowed to look more intelligent than the PM and they have surpassed that goal. To be honest I still need convinced Hancock and Raab are not cadavers.

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Stick your macho bollocks, I’m no pussy. I do know a fuck of a lot more about supporting democracy that you do. That’s because I have a critical training in law and you don’t. Simples.

    165. schrodingers cat says:

      critical training


    166. CameronB Brodie says:

      Keep quacking.


    167. schrodingers cat says:

      is it another link to the story of a guy with zero self awareness and even less personality cam? 🙂

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I think that description better suites your narrow personality, frankly. 😉

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      The cat appears hostile to the natural law and a scientific world view, that’s why I wouldn’t trust his judgement.

      It’s Not Intentional, It’s Just Their Personality

    170. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “stu is too hacked off to care anymore who posts what btl.”

      Am I? I’m certainly on Polly’s side here.

    171. Ruglonian says:

      Andy Ellis @1.08pm Transnistria – I’d never heard of that before and before I checked I honestly thought you’d slipped it inbetween too ‘proper’ examples as a wee joke to ease the tensions of our GC posters (*I* certainly had a good laugh!)

      Polly @ 2.24pm Well said!! SC is an utter bore who doesn’t see his own hypocrisy – all he ever spouts (and yesterday was a vulgar display btw) is his ‘one true vision’. His claims that by discussing the trans issue here we have “destroyed this site” are mince – if he’s got such a problem with it he should take it up with the boss, but he won’t cos Stu would deal with him such skill we’d all be talking about it for weeks 😀

      As I see it, the most relevant topics for btl are: the article subject obv, the state of btl content and conduct (which I’ve seen BDTT and others tackle admirably), positive steps forward for our cause, and the elimination of any negative barriers to our cause.
      It is my view that the SNP’s approach to the GRA reforms (as well as the proposed amendment bill itself) has been a massive alarm bell for some activists. They want the SNP to be fighting fit to lead us to independence, not to be totalitarian nightmare of a party that it’d be difficult to advocate having any more power!!

    172. Liz g says:

      Polly @ 2.24
      Despite what other’s would have you believe you’ll no be censored here for posting a point of view.
      Some like to try but the only think they can….. the Rev is the only one you need to take seriously and not because you have to agree with him either just because when it’s “the Revs hoose it’s the Revs rules” so you pay no mind to those who who would tell you to how you should post…and for what it’s worth you made really good points,I hope you stick around 🙂

    173. Bunny Ears says:

      mike cassidy says:
      30 June, 2020 at 11:45 am
      For those who thought Parler might be an alternative to censor trigger-happy Twitter.

      As Predicted: Parler Is Banning Users It Doesn’t Like

      – – – – – – – –

      I joined Parler about a week ago and there was a sudden influx of new accounts spamming complete gibberish, obscenities and dodgy links.

      These tweets embedded in the article give a flavour of what happened – not “trigger-happy censorship” but mass brigading and spamming that was dealt with promptly.

      “Pretty much all of my leftist friends joined Parler to screw with MAGA folks, and every last one of them was banned in less than 24 hours because conservatives truly love free speech”

      “I was banned from Parler because I called them out on their sketchy legal tactics: shoving legal fees onto users, requiring driver’s license, and abusing pornography laws.”

      (Why join if you don’t like the rules? No idea to what the “legal fees” comment refers.)

      From Twitter user @tittyinmymouth (are you beginning to get an inkling that these were not accounts seeking to engage in reasoned, political discourse?)

      “i’ve been banned from parler ?? what happened to freedom of speech”

      It is a right faff to get your account “Verified”, ie. to prove that you are a real person rather than a bot. You do not have to use your real name to be “Verified” but most seem to.

      If you want to have your account “Verified” then you have to take a photo of a US driving licence or otherwise a passport using the App plus a Selfie. So far I have not managed to get through this process – sounds simple but the practicalities (at least on my phone) are glitchy.

      The main benefits for me are that women and trans people who have been banned from Twitter for misgendering are finding there way there.

      Twitter is still more relevant in most ways if you haven’t been banned and can put up with its policy of smiling kindly porn, perverts and paedophiles while slamming down hard on anyone who still believes that there are biological differences between men and women.

      The new “Recommended Inclusive Language Policy” at Twitter must surely result in more people being banned or leaving in despair and disgust!

      “Out with the old words”

      Twitter’s engineering teams are working to change terms that touch on race, sex and ability, Oliver said. Terms and recommended replacements include:

      Whitelist becomes allowlist.

      Blacklist becomes denylist.

      Master/slave becomes leader/follower, primary/replica or primary/standby.

      Grandfathered becomes legacy status.

      Gendered pronouns (for example “guys”) become folks, people, you all, y’all.

      Gendered pronouns (for example “he” or “his”) become they or their.

      Man hours becomes person hours or engineer hours.

      Sanity check becomes quick check, confidence check or coherence check.

      Dummy value becomes placeholder value or sample value.

      For info:

      Parler Community Guidelines:

      Parler User Agreement:

    174. Rm says:

      Every other country in the world can manage, probably due to Scottish ingenuity and historical financial prowess, so how can anyone think that Scotland can’t survive after the union is dissolved, we’ll be probably the richest country in Europe, oil, renewables, fish, beef, whisky, water, scenery, caring people, we have to let everyone in Scotland know what we have to offer, this is Scotland one of the greatest nations who have contributed to the modern world, this government have to get a grip and start having a bit of back bone, if they don’t the people are going to do it they must see what’s happening.

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