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Wings Over Scotland


Friends and allies

Posted on September 15, 2017 by

I apologise in advance to readers for the personal indulgence of this post.

Some months ago, quite coincidentally, I happened to avail myself of Twitter’s archive function, which allows users to download their entire tweet history. For various reasons I’ve been looking at it recently, and until I did I’d been unaware that it records not just a user’s own tweets, but also the tweets from other people that they’ve retweeted.

I’ve collected some of Wings’ tweets and retweets – in reverse chronological order – below. (Famously, of course, RTs aren’t necessarily endorsements, but you can decide on the underlying tone for yourself. Each of them links to the original tweet so you can see the whole conversation, or click on the links being referenced.)

They’re all on one subject, by way of illustration, because Twitter is a transient medium full of people all too eager to jump at the slightest excuse to make spurious and hateful allegations about everything (and anyone) under the sun to serve their own agendas, and for the sake of the future of human discourse it’s worth remembering that nothing exists in isolation or free of context, and we shouldn’t jump too easily to conclusions.

Because the other way never ends anywhere good.

(The paean in question.)

(“ssm” = “same sex marriage”.)

I hope that’s clear.

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    219 to “Friends and allies”

    1. Davie Hay says:

      As first witness for the defence M’lud I call on Twitter.

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      One of my all-time heroes is Alan Turing. I think often about the hell he was put through by the British Establishment and, I admit, I shed a tear or ten when I think about it. It is estimated that Turing’s genius in cracking the German Enigma machine helped end WW2 by about a year, saving millions of lives. It is an utter disgrace that the idiot Tory fuckwit filibustered the SNP’s ‘Turing Bill’. Turing took his own life aged just 41 allegedly by eating an apple laced with cyanide.

      FFS – we are all PEOPLE.

    3. Jules says:

      I think Stuart Campbell does what he’s good at (forensic dissection of pro-union media and politicians) better than just about anyone.

      I also think he does himself – and by association, the pro-Indy cause – no favours when he indulges in unnecessary nastiness on twitter.

      But having followed his output for some time, I absolutely do not think he’s remotely bigoted or prejudiced in any kind of gender or sexuality sense. These things are complicated, people hold strong views, and people should be able to express views, ask questions of each other and challenge each other as long as they aren’t advocating violence or hatred. I’ve never seen that on Wings.

    4. Macart says:

      Neatly done. 🙂

    5. Bruce L says:

      Just about. Plus, I just bought myself a frankly fabulous rainbow splatter shirt for less than a tenner thanks to the ads in one of the linked stories.

    6. Flower of Scotland says:

      I’m afraid that is all “they” could come up with. They wanted to get you on something so it was this. Shutting you down is their end game.

      But we who have followed Wings for years know what’s happening to you and other Indy bloggers.

    7. Liz g says:

      Bradford Milliar @ 10.24
      I think yer comparing apples and oranges there Bradford.
      Religion has no problems with getting it’s self involved in every aspect of society and is pushed on to everyone….
      By virtue of the assumption that no matter the how and why of faith ,there is indeed a God.
      That concept in and of itself has never been suppressed!

      Your skin colour comment is to say the least puzzling…
      How does anyone keep that from your gaze???

      But you do seem to be saying that you don’t want to be aware of gay people,and in return you will be ok with them having a private life.
      Do you realise how that sounds?

    8. mike cassidy says:

      And here’s another link to add to the chain.

      http://archive.is/RVbjx

    9. Liz g says:

      My self @ 10.53
      Obviously the rev quite rightly realised exactly how Bradford sounded.
      And removed the comment I was replying to

    10. Proud Cybernat says:

      Many years ago when I worked in San Francisco, my lesbian pal took me out for a night in the Castro (lots of gay bars, restaurants, night clubs and so on – really fun place).

      Anyway, it was Halloween and there was a kind of Mardi Gras precession around the area – a great, fun atmosphere. A young guy came up to me, big smiles, danced around me a bit. My pal, Karen, said to him: “No lick pal – he’s staright.” To which the wee guy, quick as a flash, said, “Oh my god. What a waste!”

      The two of us peed ourselves laughing. One of the best, fun nights of my life. Karen is still one of my best pals EVER.

    11. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hmm… “lick”? “LICK”? Oh my!

      Should, of course, have been “luck”.

      Hmm – but then again….. 🙂

    12. Joemcg says:

      In my opinion I think modem society gives far too much weight to what is said and typed on social media. There have been some truly pathetic actual court cases in recent years over what is tantamount to just gossip or tittle tattle. It’s like the fishwives of yore getting hauled up to court over something that was said to a neighbour whilst putting the washing out in the backyard. You see it every day on social media newspaper sites. He said she said stirred up into a massive hornets nest. It’s truly cringeworthy and desperation to make a story out of nothing. It’s also mind numbingly boring and appeals to the lowest common denominator. Morons.As they say actions speak louder than words. Black and white is shite. Boils my piss.

    13. donnywho says:

      All this obsession about homosexuality you are clearly marked as “homophobic”.

      Ya right! Years of positive tweets for LGBT causes just “proves” it!

      It underlines the depths that the MSM will go to smear somebody who is not “on Side”.

    14. Not being gay myself, I couldn’t care less about other peoples sexual orientation and it shouldn’t matter or be anyone else’s business

      The only time it might have any relevance, is if a person, is in an important or very sensitive post in say the military or the state where they may not want to reveal
      to anyone they are gay, and could find themselves
      being blackmailed.

      As for religion I consider many of those who practise it, are intolerant of anything which doesn’t chime with the teaching of the scriptures in their holy book.

    15. galamcennalath says:

      Humans have indeed evolved into complex creatures. We fit very few mounds. You could claim we were herd animals, yet many seem content to be less connected. At first there seems to be a spectrum of behaviour from social laissez faire (there are always some boundaries) through to those who seek strict order, rules, and conformity. However, this might represent two distinct pigeon holes.

      So often ‘order, rules, and conformity’ become intertwined with bigotry, intolerance, hatred, and xenophobia. To this, I remind myself that one society’s rules can be totally different from another’s, and this means to me that dogma is for the most part passing fashion.

      There is a pattern though, a logical connect. Right wing politics, conformity, racism, intolerance, and othering, all go hand in hand.

      Inversely, Scotland with its widespread centre left attitudes is becoming associated with tolerance and inclusion.

      I would like to believe we in the Indy movement are associated with the latter. WoS certainly, trolls aside, is at the forefront IMO! On Twitter, Stu certainly uses robust adult language regularly, however you don’t have to look long to see he is likely to use it when confronted with bigotry and intolerance …. and stupidity.

    16. Bradford Millar says:

      @Liz g what i meant was i don’t like it pushed in front of my face the same goes with religion, i couldn’t care less if people chose to be gay or follow religion it is their choice … their is certain things you are not allowed to joke about and if you do you are labelled either sexist or something else

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      The tweets demonstrate exactly what I have always considered, Stu’s views are not controversial and he only discriminates against idiots (admittedly he does do the latter with extreme prejudice).

      However, there are those on Twitter and in the press that start from the point that whatever you say will be misconstrued and used as evidence that you eat children and want to gas old people…even if you are just discussing the latest Despicable Me film. They are of course idiots….(see above).

    18. Artyhetty says:

      Excellent, some eye openers there. Can people get married almost anywhere in Scotland, like it doesn’t have to be in church?

      Only thing to consider a problem when getting married these days? Your gold ring, it takes 20 tons of rock to be extracted to make one gold ring. :-/ Just my little bugbear.

      Have a good friday all, in sunny, colourful, tolerant Scotland today. 21st Century Scotland.

    19. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bradford Millar

      It sounds like your “not in my face” comment, you are effectively saying that you are not at all uncomfortable if you happen to see a heterosexual couple holding hands or kissing in public but if you see a gay/lesbian couple doing the same then you would have a problem with that.

      Why? They are ALL PEOPLE in loving relationships.

    20. dakk says:

      Hell mend these litigious bullies in their attempt to stop you exposing their lies.

      Patently you have not a homophobic bone in your body.Journophobic perhaps but not much else.

      Me personally?I am openly Yoonphobic.

      Can’t stand the sneaky,lying,cringing wee bastards.

      Maybe under new Henry VIII laws,I could be an outlaw soon.

    21. Bradford Millar says:

      Proud Cybernat never said that you are putting words in my mouth … when i say pushed in my face criticised on facebook and Twitter for not having a rainbow avatar because i stuck with my usual avatars

    22. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bradford Millar

      So you’re okay with homosexual couples exhibiting their affection for each other in public?

      If that’s your position, then fine. Just trying to clarify.

    23. Dr Jim says:

      I prefer red cars to blue cars but blue cars are equally entitled to be on the road

    24. cearc says:

      Peter McC,

      It is only blackmailable if there is a social stigma or, as in the past, criminality attached to ‘being found out’.

      Personally, what sort of dangly bits a person may or may not have and what they do with them alone or with consenting adults is of no interest to me.

      Only if one happens to fancy them is it relevant.

    25. David Wardrope says:

      No need for the apology in my opinion, good for you to show just how wrong and grudge-bearing some people are.

      It’s a shame you even have to justify in this way, anyone who has read any of your output with any small degree of regularity knows there’s no homophobia to be had.

    26. Kathy T says:

      “Artyhetty says:
      15 September, 2017 at 11:45 am
      Excellent, some eye openers there. Can people get married almost anywhere in Scotland, like it doesn’t have to be in church?”

      Yes, anywhere you can get a minister/priest/Humanist celebrant to attend. Up hills, down dales, in a stately home or your local pub. No need for licensing as a wedding venue, as they do in England.

    27. K1 says:

      I have never involved myself in any ‘identity’ politics conversation on Wings, because…och just because. On this one occasion I’ll make an exception.

      As a gay woman *dons rainbow feathered cap* I couldn’t give one tiny fuck what any of these scummy bastards think about ‘gay rights’. Or what they think about anything Stu writes on Twitter or Wings regarding ‘gay rights’.

      They are out to make capital on the back of causes they only align with ‘after’ the fight has been won by those who they formerly held in contempt and smeared and set their attack dogs on relentlessly. The colossal hypocrisy at the core of those who are in pursuance of Stu over so called ‘homophobia’ is so blatant you’d need to wilfully tear out yer eyes, stick a fork in your brain and pretend like you’ve just arrived on the planet not to see the agenda at play with this shit.

      You can’t have it both ways either regarding the usual and very typical view ‘I’m not gay myself (and why anyone has to preface with a declarative distancing opener when discussing this subject has always been a puzzler to me) and each to their own, ‘but’ not the military or high office’ argument. You either support fully the notion that it makes not a jot of difference whether one is gay or not and precisely because if this is so and it is ‘normalised’ that it would and could never be utilised as a form of blackmail against those who are gay?

      It is because homophobia ‘is’ embedded in the culture that the gay rights movement had to become ‘out’ and ‘proud’. I.E. not ‘hidden’ and ‘shameful’. Because for as long as these attitudes remain and people are shamed and worse because of their sexual orientation then dog whistling hate spewing blackmailing shits will prevail.

      Of course as we come a little ways forward in outing the bigotry and reversing the trend the hate peddlars have found that they can capitalise on that now, ironically, by attacking anyone who they deem is ‘against’ gay rights and can smear them with the ‘homophobe’ tag. Think about that for a second…former anti gay rights rags who destroyed people’s life’s with years of outright and innuendo laden stereotyping, who took blatant stances against any form of legislation equalising our rights with the churches backing them up now actively seek out anyone who is a potential target by smearing them as ‘homophobic’. You seriously couldn’t make this shit up.

      The true aim is to disarm the independence movement, to other Stu and Wings, make no mistake this has nothing to do with homophobia or gay rights, this is merely another weapon they are trying out to hole our great big ship. Divide and conquer, t’was ever thus.

      It’s not going to work…fuck ’em.

    28. Robert Peffers says:

      @Artyhetty says: 15 September, 2017 at 11:45 am:

      “Your gold ring, it takes 20 tons of rock to be extracted to make one gold ring.”

      Yeah! Artyhetty, but look at the good side – that’s 20 tons of potential good road re-metalling, that would otherwise need quarried, after you shove it through the crushers.

    29. Bradford Millar says:

      @Proud Cybernat as i said in my post that was removed i have friends who are gay male and female .. they don’t push their sexuality on me and i don’t care if they kiss in public and hold hands that is their choice … my problem is the media and people pushing it in my face

    30. I built all those walls says:

      Do they call me Angus the wall builder? No.

    31. Ken500 says:

      28 out of 650 Westminster rep? Is that a balance. Low % Not representational.

      Gender gap.

      How many Gay people as a % in the population. Low estimate?

    32. R-type Grunt says:

      @Bradford Millar

      “…i couldn’t care less if people chose to be gay…”. I’m pretty sure it’s not a choice thing.

    33. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bradford Millar

      I may be wrong but I am sure, in the post of yours that the Rev removed, that you said something along the lines of ‘what they did in private was their business’.

      Holding hands or kissing in public is not in private. Do you regard that as “pushing their sexuality” on you?

      If so, why?

    34. Arbroath1320 says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      15 September, 2017 at 12:14 pm
      @ Bradford Millar

      So you’re okay with homosexual couples exhibiting their affection for each other in public?

      If that’s your position, then fine. Just trying to clarify.

      Many MANY moons ago I worked in Edinburgh and was regularly warned by the company’s H.R. departmentto stop doing this that or the other outside the company gates as they were getting complaints. Unfortunately I was not, how do say, fiesty as I am these days so I just complied with the HR department to appease the heterosexual workers. If I could turn back the clock I would certainly be throwing that complaint back in the face of the HR dept. by complaining about all the heterosexual folks holding hands and kissing at the entrance to the business but hey I can’t go back and for the sake of the HR dept. probably just as well. 😀

    35. Ottomanboi says:

      Statistically active homosexuality exists among a rather small minority of the population. It is however a small minority with a broad spectrum social agenda which receives considerable backing from media and certain opportunist politicians ever on the quest for some ‘edgy’ novelty. It is debatable whether there is as much public support for the ‘gay agenda’ as we are led to believe. People are such conformists in social matters and have even been known to lie in pursuit of a quiet life. Nevertheless, tails wagging dogs is never a pretty or savoury sight. Getting the issue of ‘gay rights’ and libertarian attitudes to sexual conduct tangled up with the concept of independence for Scotland is rather counterproductive for it can negatively influence opinion. On the sovereignty issue we must be single minded. The social engineering stuff ought to be left until day one of Scotland’s freedom when no doubt we will have rather more representative political parties than at present.
      By the way, in a country with a projected decline in population shouldn’t we be encouraging a positive attitude towards human reproduction? Or is that a blatant expression of ‘homophobia’?

    36. Ken500 says:

      Stiff upper lip. Many don’t like seeing any kiss/overly affection in public. Too much information. Not in front of others by degree. Culture differences of acceptance. Many don’t like any over sexualised images overly in public. Too much porn means people can turn off and not be able to perform. It is easier Not so much effort but they lose out emotionally with human contact most people seek. Care and comfort. There are now care dolls. A bit weird but each to their own. XX XY YY. XYZ. Variety of chromosomes. DNA. Into the melting pot for variety. Not inbred. Increasing creativity, talents and skills, equality and happiness.

    37. Brian W says:

      tweet form @theguyliner still cracks me up to this day.

      I can just picture the scene and only but dream of the day at being be as funny with so few words.

    38. Capella says:

      Well you are a bit anti-Gaelic. Specially in public places (road signs). Maybe they misheard.

    39. @cearc
      15 September, 2017 at 12:16 pm

      I prefaced my previous post about not being gay myself, because I have never had to experience what gay people have suffered.

      Just as I have never suffered the racial abuse a member of an ethnic minority may have suffered.

      While we as a society have progressed from the era where those who were supposedly living in sin or are single mothers are no longer stigmatised.

      And the law has been scrapped no longer making it a criminal act for two consenting adults to be in a gay relationship.

      We however haven’t yet progressed to the stage, where there are no longer people, such as the bible bashers
      who are attempting to socially stigmatise gay people.

    40. frogesque says:

      Regarding gold wedding bands.

      I have made a few from Scottish gold panned by myself from some of the purest river waters we have.

      Not one single rock was crushed in the process!

      Leadhills/ Wanlochhead comes in about 22carat, Kildonan 20 carat, Tyndrum 14 carat and a few places I won’t mention at about 18 carat.

      Scotland is an amazingly rich Nation!

    41. David says:

      Probably a good idea just to have a neutral/non-committal stance on anything that’s not Scottish Independence related?

      That would be the easiest solution. Otherwise you open yourself up (and your efforts to the cause you are doing a great job for) to all kinds of twisting, lying and smearing.

      There’s a million fights out their worth fighting. 1 person or organisation can only win 1 at a time.

    42. Ken500 says:

      In censors 1.5% people register as GAY. 2.2% ? in Westminster Parliament. Over represented? Which a low %. It is considers that one in ten could/should be (registered) GAY. They will not ‘come out’ because of negative consequences. ‘Negative’ non acceptance holds people back. Sad, Shame. They are quite vocal who champion their cause. Articulate. Increasingly more positive recognition. People should be free and equal to be or do what they want. Law changes to keep up with sociological development. Gays all the way.

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Ken500 says:

      XX XY YY

      I was under the impression there are no YY humans. Perhaps I’m wrong.

      A quick search revealed …

      XYY which is Jacobs syndrome, and XXY known as Klinefelter syndrome.

      Clearly chromosomes alone don’t dictate who we are anyway. I guess even genes don’t decide everything either.

      A mother’s various hormone levels can result in different development i.e. environmental effects begin at minus nine months. I remember reading somewhere that people with more older siblings are statistically more likely to be gay probably because of their mother’s different hormone levels with each successive pregnancy.

    44. K1 says:

      But you do experience being an independence supporter in Scotland. Vilified, smeared, treated as if we are the plague. The transposition is relatively easy. Prejudice, hate, vilification, smearing, less than…all the same tools.

      This has nothing to do with whether someone identifies as gay or not, it’s about understanding what hatred and prejudice is, it looks for a target and it rationalises the ‘why’ part.

    45. Ken500 says:

      Is there not a gold mine in the Cairngorms? There was a fuss/protests about.

    46. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi galamcennalath.

      Saw this on Twitter a couple of weeks ago.

      XX Female

      XY Male

      YYY Delilah

    47. Capella says:

      @ Ken500 – the goldmine which caused a stooshie was in Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park. Potential jobs or disturbance in a National Park was one issue. I think a committee member may also have had shares in the goldmine but didn’t declare it.

    48. galamcennalath says:

      frogesque says:

      Scottish gold panned by myself

      Indeed. I’ve found the odd little bit myself but not enough to make anything.

      My father and his brother used to collect what they called ‘lead’ from a stream around 1930. I have a nugget of it about 1 x 2cm. It never looked like lead ore, lighter and not crystalline. It’s actually electrum, a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver.

      So, in yet another way, Scotland is a rich country! Something else for that long long list the Yoons deny!

    49. Ken500 says:

      Just being irrational. It doesn’t mean XX anything. Implying unimportance. Rainbow.

      As long as people don’t marry their cousin. Or donate too much oddles of sperm. That might present a problem. Inbred. The wonders of science. Often give credible explanations which are later rejected. Increase of additional needs people. Older parenthood. Older eggs and sperm. Or higher level of awareness and methods to recognise. More and better testing. To help people out, sympathise and provide for their needs. Empathetic. Less unecessary drugs or counselling. More awareness.

    50. galamcennalath says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      The Alex Harvey version, of course.

    51. Valerie says:

      When you believe in equity of treatment for all humans, regardless of their their sexual orientation, it’s hurtful when someone accuses you of being otherwise.

      I’ve found its quite often done, knowing it will sting hard, and make you question. That’s when you have to be strong, and know who you are.

      I’ve dealt with a work situation where the race card was played. It really upset the staff in the fallout.

      Stand firm, this is also miscalling, to upset, make you lose your balance. It’s hurtful, because you care about this subject.

      It’s easy for us, I know.

      Take care, and know we want to support.

    52. Bradford Millar says:

      @Proud Cybernat
      ‘what they did in private was their business’. = intercourse i would object to anybody having intercourse in public .. hence what they do in private is their business

      @R-type Grunt … it is about choice our lives are based on the choices we make

    53. Ken500 says:

      There’s gold in them, there hills.

      Oscar’s in St. Andrews in Fife named best chippy award.

    54. Valerie says:

      @ Ottomanboi. 1.18

      A very disappointing, if revealing post, from you.

    55. K1 says:

      Did you choose to be heterosexual sexual Bradford?

    56. K1 says:

      Hear hear Valerie.

    57. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bradford Millar

      “‘what they did in private was their business’. = intercourse i would object to anybody having intercourse in public .. hence what they do in private is their business”

      So you’re fine with “anybody” publicly expressing human affection i.e. kissing, cuddling, holding hands.

      Good.

    58. Bradford Millar says:

      @K1 & Proud Cybernat

      the answer to both your questions is: Yes
      like i choose the team i support, like i chose my job, like i chose my hobby, like i chose to support Independence for Scotland

      i was branded a bigot by a black lives matter activist on facebook for saying “No every life matters”

    59. Liz g says:

      Bradford Miller
      You still haven’t explained how people of colour keep that out of your face?
      Which you seem to be forgetting was also in your deleated post.

    60. ScottishPsyche says:

      To be accused unjustly and smeared especially when it goes against core beliefs you have been clear about over many years must be a nightmare. To see it being done over and over again to support a political agenda is even worse.

      I would not subscribe to or support a site if I thought it was in any way homophobic and I think that goes for most of us here. No matter what happens we all know to look beyond the headlines now.

    61. K1 says:

      Really Bradley, you chose your heterosexual disposition? No you didn’t, it’s not like the other ‘things’ you cite as examples of ‘choice’.

      You grew up and were attracted to women, it wasn’t a choice, it was simply attraction. You did not sit down and think now…will I or won’t I ‘believe’ in this or that, or will I or won’t I now become attracted to men rather than to women? Neither did gay people.

      I would go so far as to say even those other examples are heavily weighted in terms of influences from our backgrounds. The idea just because you ‘like’ something makes it a choice that ‘you’ have made completely autonomously is nonsense. People do not choose to not like chocolate ice cream or to prefer vanilla. They either like it or don’t and that has much more to do with chemistry than choice.

      By all means keep ‘your’ beliefs the way you like them Bradley. But the reality is there is very little that any of us has real choice over, in terms of our preferences. The choice is whether to follow through on our preferences or not?

      The whole issue surrounding the ‘gay’ preference, that many ‘don’t like’ is that many of us ‘followed through’, not without extreme prejudice from society and family, not without backlash from workmates, colleagues et al. And that to my mind is the only problem. No one ever gave me a hard time for preferring tea to coffee and therefore drinking a lot more tea throughout my life, I would ‘prefer’ if no one gave me a hard time for or even had a comment about my preference for women.

      I don’t say a word about people’s preferences for their heterosexual partners, yet everyone has something to insinuate or say about mine. It’s a political football. One that I don’t like being involved with, but because of the abuse of the rights of those whose preferences differs, there has had to be a fight which turned it into a massive political issue, rightly so, to protect us from the hatred of those who attack us and to protect us financially because the law did not protect us regarding our living arrangements with our partners.

      As for the ‘in your face’ aspect of your post. Very immature outlook. Everything has been in everyone’s face for decades via the media. Now imagine choosing to go against the river of heteronormative culture and tell me, would you ‘choose’ to do that?

      We’ve had to be ‘out’ and ‘proud’ precisely because of what you ‘inadvertently’ insinuate, that there is something inherently ‘bad’ or ‘shameful’ about being gay. There isn’t. The mere fact you even suggest that it is choice implies that we could make a different choice Bradley, it’s nuanced but it’s there. Anymore than you could choose not to be straight, gay people can’t choose not to be gay.

    62. Bradford Millar says:

      @Liz g what part do you not understand i have no problems with skin colour, religion etc just don’t push it in my face … we are all human beings and we should be treated as equal .. i don’t see skin colour i just see another human being … Black lives matter … sorry every life matters

    63. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ K1 3:07pm

      Nail, hammer and all that.

      Well articulated.

    64. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T and apologies’ if already posted:

      http://archive.is/k8le1

      Hurrah…..

      “A WEALTHY Tory MSP was today found guilty of breaking Holyrood’s code of conduct.”

      But…..

      The Scottish Parliament’s standards committee admonished the Aberdeenshire West MSP.”

      Booooooo.

      Who’s on the Scottish Parliament’s Standards Committee??

      Surely not admonished so SNP couldn’t have a victory??

    65. Da5e says:

      Wait wait wait. Does this mean we might see a Rev. Stu Campbell vs Miranda Yardley ding-dong? I’d sign up to Twitter for that. Amiga Power vs. Terrorizer; my favourite ever magazines in desperate battle.

    66. Bradford Millar says:

      K1 seriously you have a chip on your shoulder just because i CHOSE to have my OWN opinions on stuff via my OWN CHOICES in life … i do not discriminate against anyone … i don’t regard myself as being white as i would say i’m more pinkish in colour … come back to me when you can understand the concept of individualism and why we make choices.

      as for ice cream vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry … it doesn’t matter all 3 are good separate or together

      seemingly my only crime is i don’t want stuff not relevant to me shoved in my face thus i’m anti this or that

    67. ahundredthidiot says:

      ot

      what a difference a letter makes.

      trump tweets ….within sights of scotland yard.

      sky news report…within sight of scotland yard……then proceed to pass criticism

      is the MSM just thick??

    68. David says:

      @ScottishPsyche

      The trouble is that the PC culture isnt about equal rights, or multiculturalism, or diversity for many of the loudest mouths in it.

      Its about using it as a hammer on anyone they disagree with for any reason.

      Case in point: Hillary Clinton’s ‘Bernie Bro’s’ nonsense with
      Bernie Sanders. Obviously because Sanders was a white male he has some kind of agenda, or lack of sensitivity or something (check his progressive political record and its far better and much more sincere than Clintons). Yet, despite her terrible (some would say criminal) record of befriending dictators and accepting political donations from countries that thoroughly oppress women (and anyone else for that matter) she threw that shit out and it stuck in some peoples minds.

      But the point is that the faux ‘Diversity’ brigade simply dont think. They see some catchwords and jump on the bandwagon like howling dogs and if you arent SEEN to think exactly as they do then anything else might just be ‘worse than Hitler’. Instantly you are politically and socially unacceptible.

      This poison of thought policing has seeped into the Scottish Independence debate also and is weakening the left of politics in the western world. Im saying this as someone whose pretty economically right wing, so I shouldnt care but it should be obvious to those who do. Being ‘left wing’ now isnt simply about economic equality and fairness to all – its about how pro trans you are, or are you appropriating anyones culture? Or are you causing microaggressions against ‘people of color’? Or if you are male (but only white, otherwise its racist) you might just be a rapist by default. Or if you have a problem with the homophobic, racist, misgynist teachings of Islam then you are clearly racist. The list goes on.

      It doesnt matter what Stu says he thinks, as soon as you step into that arena one way or another you are at the mercy of bullshit spinners and the hordes of over-emotional fkwits with inflated victim-complex’s who know nothing, are allergic to fact checking and buy into it.

      If you have a real goal that involves the internet and social media which goes against the general establishment then its a subject best left alone until you have achieved what you want, otherwise they are coming for you.

    69. Proud Cybernat says:

      “…like i chose to support Independence for Scotland”

      Most indy supporters generally would just say ‘…support Scottish independence.” It’s a subtle thing. Scotland is its people i.e. ALL the people from all places who have come here to live and work and who have made Scotland their home – the Scottish people. A land doesn’t become independent, the people of that land become independent.

      I support Scottish independence. Are you from Scotland?

    70. Liz g says:

      Bradford Millar @ 3.08
      The bits that I didn’t understand Bradford, for the avoidance of doubt,or potentially putting words in yer mouth (cause that might be located in yer face or mibbi no cause it’s yer arse ye are talkin fae ) I asked you about.
      And I asked because you might just have an “unfortunate” turn of phrase.

      I asked

      Firstly do you realise what you sounded like?
      Secondly can you explain how a person of colour keeps their colour “out of your face”?
      Noo ye can answer or no, disnay matter we’re done!

    71. crazycat says:

      @ Bradford Millar

      When people say

      Black Lives Matter

      They don’t mean

      only Black Lives Matter

      They mean

      Black Lives also Matter

      which they only need to say because there are people who do not accept that all lives matter equally.

    72. heedtracker says:

      seemingly my only crime is i don’t want stuff not relevant to me shoved in my face thus i’m anti this or that

      You love it. The biggest homophobes are almost always gay.

    73. Bradford Millar says:

      @Proud Cybernat Scottish as they come

      @Liz g skin colour i have no problem with .. but groups like Black lives matter bother me … for me every life matters … i saw how they took over a Bernie Sanders rally and basically sidelined him from his rally to all his supporters they basically treated him with no respect to me they are just another bunch of anarchists not helping the cause of discrimination

    74. K1 says:

      Way to go in misrepresenting my entire post Bradley.
      You obvs missed this part which directly addresses your huffy retort:

      ‘By all means keep ‘your’ beliefs the way you like them Bradley.’

    75. clipper says:

      Sorry o/t and posted by someone else on previous thread –

      “Dave McEwan Hill says:
      14 September, 2017 at 7:27 pm
      The time has come for us to call out the “Lying For London” politicians and the “Lying For London” media.
      In their desperation they have given us the opportunity.

      We used to believe politicians could be a bit careless with the truth, or at best a bit selective.

      Now they openly lie and the media, printed and broadcasting, lie with them.
      This means they can be caught and held to account.
      The “London Calling ” disclosure of BBC bias (which we have as DVDs) was breathtaking. We are now in a different ball game

      £100,000 would produce 1 million 8 page “Not the Daily Record” newspapers (which could include also sections for the Mail the Express and the BBC) which when widely distributed would hit the Record very hard and establish vividly that these publications are not only printing lies but treating their readers like fools WHICH IS JUST AS IMPORTANT.

      Anybody else with any ideas?”

      End quote.

      It’s not so much more ideas we need but people who are able and willing to actually make them happen. What was suggested above I think is a pretty good idea which if it had the will behind it would be quite easily do-able and fundable through crowdfunding. Once people had an idea of what it was going to be like and knew that there were people ready and willing to do the distribution that crowdfund would fill up VERY fast and yes it would have an effect, positive for us and detrimental for the british nationalist propaganda machine.

      Unfortunately like all good ideas mooted on here nothing will come of it. Everyone wants someone else to deal with it. Go on you lot, prove me wrong and I’ll eat my socks.

    76. Capella says:

      Sorry this article won’t archive. The richest MSP is found guilty of breaking Holyrood’s code of conduct:
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15535255.Millionaire_Tory_MSP_broke_Holyrood__39_s_code_of_conduct/

      The parliament’s standards committee has now admonished the Aberdeenshire West MSP, saying it did not consider the breach severe enough to justify a further sanction.

      In theory, it could have ordered 44-year-old Mr Burnett, whose full name is Alexander james Amherst Burnett of Leys, be suspended from parliament.

      But it was “minded to be lenient” as the breach occurred before MSPs had been reminded about the need to declare interests in March.

    77. Valerie says:

      David @ 3.30

      Some bloody rant there, you big bed wetter.

      This ‘PC culture’???

      The poison of “thought policing’???

      Such a drag that a civilised society demands we treat everyone as equal, or we can’t just blurt out a stream of gay hatred in public, eh? Poor oppressed you.

      Do you support independence? If you do, then why? The society you advocate is birthing into existence right now, if you go further south. Othering of foreigners, punishing women who have been raped, by making them tell the gory details to gain access to £20 child benefit.

      You really object to minorities receiving some support and recognition or rights.

      There is no such thing as policing thoughts, but we sure as hell have to prevent unacceptable public behaviour which seeks to put down another human.

      The independence movement frequently talks about what kind of society it should be, and news flash, it’s highly political, they are inextricably linked.

      What a surprise you are right wing economically – not.

    78. Liam says:

      I’m fed up with having heterosexuality constantly shoved in my face.

    79. Dr Jim says:

      It’s lovely day in Scotland today as both Tory and Labour supporters bare their teeth as one in hatred of the SNP because it’s their fault Labours Anas Sarwar’s a crooked politician

      Brexit would never have happened either but for the SNPs interference in Inglish politics

    80. Petra says:

      Ha, ha, ha! Well done Stu. ‘Open and shut.’

      Everyone on here knows that you’re anti-homophobic, as I’ve even noticed you intervening, which you rarely do, when someone has stepped out of line ever so slightly. If I’m right ? about the person in question there’s loads of proof to highlight that she / he suffers from misanthropy …. hatred of 50% of the Scottish population and 100% of immigrants (with dire repercussions).

    81. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T.

      Link from Bill Glen to keep you’s secure .

      https://www.experian.com/consumer-products/free-dark-web-email-scan.html

    82. Hamish100 says:

      Does having chromosomes make me a bad person?

      Only if you are a Tory!

    83. yesindyref2 says:

      I’ve never thought of the Rev as homophobic, in fact he seems to make little if any references to sexual matters – a gent in old-fashioned parlance, in that way at least! In fact I’ve also noticed in the past the implicit condemnation in his tweets or retweets of homophobia, in any way shape or form.

      But to my mind a main reason for homophobia isn’t that the person is gay themselves as some say, it’s insecurity on what other people think of them.

      For instance single guys without a girl-friend get remarks made about them “no girl-friend, must be gay”, same for girls without a boy-friend though less so I think. That even happens with today’s more enlightened generation. People still speculate about people’s sexuality.

      So some guys make homophobic remarks to “prove” that they’re not gay, and hence they’re clearly hetero. Some outgrow this as they become more secure in themselves: “who cares what people think”, others even if married and hence “obviously” hetero, still see themselves reflected in others eyes. So they continue with the remarks – it’s a kind of comfort blanket thing to them. “Look at me, the big strong normal man”.

      It’s human nature to make comments about others, if it’s not their sexuality it’s other things. And it’s human nature to be insecure in ways, if not about sex, it’d be about drinking prowess, athletic ability, brainpower, ability to drive at 180mph round a sharp bend. It’s just being human, warts and all.

      In today’s social media envoronment any off-comment is picked on and analysed, over-analysed and inevitably used against them at some time or otherm by someone or other. Well, that’s social media for you, anyone who uses it should think twice, three times before hitting the “send” button and broadcasting it to the world for all to see – and record for posterity.

    84. Capella says:

      Mr Burnett’s register of interests is over 1000 pages long. No wonder:

      He is the beneficiary of multi-million pound Trusts, owns a property empire worth £20m and will continue to earn upwards of £100,000 for a maximum one day a month’s work.

      He is the sole owner of the AJA Burnett Estate in Aberdeenshire which has agricultural land, residential and commercial lettings as well as recreational, sporting and forestry interests.

      The market value is worth around £10m, generating an annual income of up to £650,000.

      Mr Burnett is expected to pay himself between £115,000 and £120,000 in 2016/17, despite expecting to spend a maximum of one day a month in the business.

      He is a trustee and sole beneficiary of the Banchory Trust, which owns property in Aberdeenshire with a market value of between £14.6m and £14.7m.

      He is also a trustee and potential beneficiary of the Fordie Trust, with property worth £4.5m.

      While the trusts generate annual income of around £430,000 and £75,000 respectively, he says he does not expect to receive any income from either in the current parliament.

      In addition he owns £10m of shares in the North Banchory Company, a property letting and development firm; £5.5m of shares in Bancon Developments Holdings Ltd, another property firm; almost £1m of shares in energy firm Hill of Banchory ESCo Ltd; and a further £140,000 of shares in another property business, the Inchmarlo Land Company Ltd.

      His basic salary as an MSP is £61,778.

      But his secretary forgot to mention any of that when typing up his question in Parliament about business rates. Easily done.

    85. Capella says:

      Sorry! Over 1,000 words long. Long enough.

    86. Terence callachan says:

      I have on occasion been asked by people if I am gay, usually people I was meeting for the first or second time.Im not ,but so what, it’s so unimportant in life.
      I am angry that the church discriminates against some people and then claims the high ground in telling people how to live their lives.
      I am glad that the church is being abandoned by many it has been a disappointment and has been given too much power ,this must be reversed, I don’t mind people being religious and going to church or mosque etc but don’t tell the rest of us how to live or try and impose your views on us through the near brainwashing of children .

    87. Dr Jim says:

      Why do terroristy people think blowing up ordinary people will make any government concede to their demands when it’s only blowing up government and rich people that does that

    88. Ken500 says:

      Rees Mogg pays himself £14,000 a week. Got much more in assets. His Westminster remuneration and expenses are on the top. A £Multimillionaire. He wants to sanction, starve and kill people all over the world. He claimed to be a Christian who believes in Christian values. He a total greedy despicable hypocrite. The criminals at Westminster should be put in jail.

      @ Wings twitter @ Canary.

      His mother-in-law got £100,000 of public money, to renovate a Manor House.

      Mr/Mrs May are £Multimillionaires. Get the Westminster salary and £2Million in perks. Claims to be a Christian who believes in Christian values. Has been censured by the UN for the despicable illegal ways she treats people. Despicable Tory ‘psycho bastard’. Their own description. Her fake, false implied concern for the less fortunate is nauseating. Disgusting she is responsible for their pain and suffering.

      The UN report was censored by the BBC. It blames the MSM duplicity or exacerbating the situation.

      The Tories and their cronies want out of the EU, so they can tax evade. It will ruin the world economy. Negatively affect millions of people, including in Britain. They don’t care. Enough is never enough. The only reason they are in Gov is to tax evade and line their own pockets with £Billions of embezzled public money.

    89. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Jules . [ I also think he does himself – and by association, the pro-Indy cause – no favours when he indulges in unnecessary nastiness on twitter. ]

      If you dont like the Marmite chist eat the toast

    90. Dorothy Devine says:

      Geez Capella ! After the pillorying of Ms Thomson it is more than utterly disgusting that the Burnett chappie is allowed off the hook.

      Imagine had this Burnett chappie had been an SNP MP/MSP – we would have been regaled on a daily basis of the calumny for ever and a day.

      I look forward to the hounding by the media being applied to this fellow – as if.

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I can understand why Stu, in the light of recent events, wants to make clear to everyone that he is no homophobe. Which is just the reality of the matter, even if he is at times (as I’ve heard) deliberately controversial on Twitter.

      To me the issue is merely one of many aspects of equal rights for all, and the more official policy in the country can support genuine affection between people the better.

      However, I just don’t think that the overt promotion of LGBT rights (or indeed any other specific issue) helps the cause of independence right now. That should all be for later, when we are in full control.

      And I did take particular offence that Nicola Sturgeon was apparently happy to appear at an LGBT rally in Glasgow recently but somehow couldn’t be bothered to attend the great Indy march last June. An absence shared by all but one of her fellow SNP MSPs. It gives an entirely wrong impression of priorities. (As the results very evidently showed.)

    92. Petra says:

      @ Capella says at 4:57 pm …… ”Mr Burnett’s register of interests is over 1000 words long. No wonder: …………. But his secretary forgot to mention any of that when typing up his question in Parliament about business rates. Easily done.”

      The National is reporting that Mr Burnett has stated:

      ”I of course take full responsibility for my new member of staff and she has now had training from the Chamber Desk.”

      There you go. Sorted Capella.

      http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15536749.Tory_MSP_rebuked_by_Holyrood_committee_for_failing_to_declare_business_interest/

    93. stewartb says:

      crazy cat @3.47m and others regarding the Black Lives Matter movement.

      Worth considering its own words:

      “We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a necessary prerequisite for wanting the same for others.”

      http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

      Personally, I’m OK with that.

    94. K1 says:

      I take your point Robert J, though have to add that the LGBTI issue is a global issue and therefore given Scotland’s credentials as an outward facing progressive nation which at it’s heart will have a huge part to play in the fight against the persecution of this particular community, which includes all of us as we are all related whether son, daughter, mother father, then it is fitting that Nicola attended the rally to lend support to the global fight against homophobia.

      On the matter of comparing her attendance at this event and absence at the Indy rally. The SNP are not the Independence movement, the movement itself is bigger than the SNP. She was there in her capacity as FM of Scotland lending her personal and professional support. If she’d attended the rally when the campaign has not officially begun she just opens herself to unwelcome attack from the usual quarters and there are no doubt delecate negotiations underway to ensure the timing of the official campaign is pitch perfect from the POV of the Scottish government’s agenda in this regard.

      Meanwhile we all fight the good fight under the same umbrella, Independence, recognising that our church is broad and deep and can withstand encompassing many issues at once.

      We lead by example.

    95. Ken500 says:

      Alexander Burnett and his family own half of Deeside. His mother is a cousin of the Queen. He was a councillor. 3rd rate reject. Bancon business firm, which is a shambles They got contracts for Aberdeenshire Council maintainence work. £Millions. They overcharged. Despite being warned countless times. They were changing over the agreed (contract) profit margin. They overcharged £Million. The Council officials were trying to reclaim the funds. To get it back before the Councillors found out. The Tories would have been trying to cover it up. They lost the contract. It wasn’t extended. Did the Council get all the money back?

      The Green Hut May electoral appearance was on the Deeside land. The landowners are involved in trying to carve up, the Council to their advantage, through the unionist/green Parties, A real conspiracy of greedy demanding interests. All intertwined on the network. Including the local Thomson paper interest. Intertwined in unionism to carve up the public assets. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      Unionist council. The chairperson of the education committee. A personal friend of May and used to be active in her Maidenhead constituency Party. Intending cutting education (+ LibDems) £Millions. Ignorant incompetents. Totally out of their depth. Not fit for public office. On a screwed electoral system. The Green Hut appearance electoral appearance was on the family land. Many on Deeside support the Royals. Balmoral and all that patronage.

      The Deeside company family raised £25Million (mortgaged against the land? ) to cover loses because of the downturn. The Oil/Gas downturn caused by the Tories illegally high taxes on the Oil & Gas sector. 40% since Jan 2016. To high for profitable exploration and development when the price had fallen.

      There are many unionist sharks swarming around Holyrood trying for Gov contacts to embezzle waste and public money. On grotesque non mandated low value projects. Against the majority wishes and the public interest, Squandering and wasting public money like there is no tomorrow, Enough is never enough for them. The reason they join unionists/green Parties, especially in Scotland. Extremely low ability with no empathy for others. Not nice and dim. To dim for the family businesses. So they go into ‘politics’. Totally unsuited. Nasty, Ignorant incompetents.

    96. Capella says:

      @ Petra – it’s a scandal isn’t it that such a devious person – who booked Crathie Hall for Theresa May’s meet-some-of-the-people election event under the guise of a children’s party – gets away with asking questions faourable to his business interests.

      Meanwhile – the writer of this blog is being threatened with legal action and is smeared as a homophobe. I’ve been reading this blog for over 3 years now and have never seen any evidence of homophobia by the author.

      Some of our politicians and journalists are a disgrace. Thankfully, Stu is able to call them out, which puts him in the firing line of the evil empire. But he’s not alone.

    97. Capella says:

      Sorry – Crathes Hall. It’s near Crathes Castle, stately home of the Burnett of Leys family – from where all the staff were apparently dragooned into attending Theresa May’s meet-the-not-the people.

      Crathie is, of course, at Balmoral.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      It’s a tricky one. But I do remember posting that the SNP were wrong even to mention the GE being a vote to confirm the mandate for Indy Ref 1, and for three reasons. First because it wasn’t needed, they already had the mandate, and the vote in Holyrood. Second because it legitimately allowed the Unionist aprties to bring it up, bring it up, bring it up.

      But thirdly because Indy had been in the news non-stop, one way or the other, and I think most people who are in the middle ground are fed up with it. So that tends to harden their attitudes “I voted NO last time, I’ll do so again, I’m sick of this”.

      Whereas not keeping it in the news gives it a rest, and people’s attention is off it, so when it comes back again as the issue, they’ll be more ready to change their minds.

      Meanwhile Breeks, you, others – and me, get restless, very restless, suspicious even. But look at it this way – what way will we vote in Indy Ref 2, and are we going to sit back and watch the campaign happen without us?

      Sadly the SNP are probably right to steer clear of Independence and Indy Ref 2 at the moment, pain in the impatient butt though that is for us.

    99. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      K1 @ 18:04,

      It’s amazing actually how far we’ve come in respect to LGBT rights in such a short time, and yet in terms of sectarianism (long-dead as a genuinely religious issue) we seem to be going backwards, if anything. Not least thanks to the Vote for Ruth Davidson and Don’t Mention Conservative Party.

      My own view of such matters is that each and every one of them opens up the opportunity of yet another divide-and-conquer attack by BritNat reactionaries. The worst of them all being Brexit, which alas is so potentially destructive that we just can’t afford to ignore it, even if otherwise we might prefer to.

      I know there is a counter-argument that the SG should act as much as possible as if we are already independent, but sometimes it begins to seem like virtue-signalling in the context of too much comfort with the status quo.

      (Maybe though that’s just my impatience beginning to chafe.)

    100. HandandShrimp says:

      Looking at Stu’s Twitter thing at the side there, I had to Google TERF.

      Suddenly I feel very old and like Jack Nicholson in Mars Attack….why can’t we all just get along?

    101. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 18:23,

      I know, I know. =sigh=

      Well put, though.

    102. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scientific racism is rooted in Social Darwinism and the cult of Bentham.
      Scientific racism is colorblind, it targets all who undermine profit and privilege.
      Scientific racism is closely associated with the ethos of the the New Right and a return to ‘traditional’ values.

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scientific racism is the enemy of an open and inclusive society.

    104. Ken500 says:

      As FM of Scotland Nicola can’t attend every random Independence Rally. Only when an official YES campaign has began sanctioned by the Scottish Parliament. Lawful. Ie has been sanctioned and a date been set and the Parliament dissolved for the purpose of the campaign. The two roles are different. Different role and responsibility.

      A FM of Scotland has to govern for the whole of Scotland (not just the SNP/members) – because of the way majority of people voted. The majority of people voted NO in the IndyRef. If they had voted YES it would have been a different matter/outcome. There is a Ministerial Code of conduct. (Which the unionists just ignore and behave criminally – incidentally). They are above the Law.

      As the Head/Leader of the SNP there are different role and responsibilities from the role as FM. There has to be a separation. Due to the results of the elections Ref results. The FM has to have a Manifesto and a mandate which is supposed to be followed. An IndyRef is different from an election etc. Different conditions rights and responsibilities.

      Renton is back. Looking rough.

    105. K1 says:

      Aye Robert agreed. It does and I believe this is being used as an issue against the Rev to do just that. I hear you regarding SG approach tae Indy, but it’s like yon one said, it is impatience and I think the genuine fear of being trapped by Brexit that makes us all want out now…we have to have a little faith else we’re doomed by our own fears.

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scientific racism is closely associated with persistent gender inequalities.

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      This thread takes me back to the early days of the Scottish Parliament, and Section 28 or 2A whichever it was, and of course Soutar’s referendum thing. Well, pick up a newspaper, watch the TV and all you’d ever hear was 28 / 2A, and I got sick of hearing about it “Are there not other issues the Scottish Parliament can tackle”?

      Well, two things, first whatever the SNP might say, the first two terms did achieve a lot but we never really heard about it, 28 / 2A was the big issue of the day, the controversial one, churches, civic societies, whatever. People took sides, or get bored stiff with it.

      But secondly it went out of the news and guess what? Scotland changed and didn’t really care less any more, equal rights? No problemo. Civic ceremony? Fine. Marriage, whatever floats your boat! In other words once it was out of the public attention, attitudes changed subsconciously because, really, it’s not an issue for most people.

    108. Ottomanboi says:

      The West does seem obsessed with the sexuality of its citizenry. As someone from a Levantine mixed ancestry I can say from observation that the ‘Gay’ agenda as understood in the West goes down like a lead balloon from the Maghrib on the Atlantic seaboard eastward. The themes are not understood and when they are, albeit by a minority, result in unpleasant consequences. Homosexuality is definitely not alien to Arab, Persian and Turkish culture, although some of the less worldly might challenge that. Literature and in some cases imagery reveal a toleration that most of the West, the non-Catholic bits in particular, historically never vouchsafed. However, as in the classical Greek and Roman world, a man and woman married raised children and carried on the family name. The sexual proclivities of the husband and wife beyond the reproductive didn’t matter greatly, as long as kept fairly circumspect and did not provoke scandal or worse, ridicule. The idea of marriage and setting up home together by people of the same sex would be considered odd for there could be no issue. It would be in effect ‘sterile’.
      The West in its desire to reshape the natural, by denying there is a natural and insisting upon cultural conditioning, seems intent on driving its general culture along a path leading to a cliff edge.
      Having the state meddling and prescribing in matters relating to what its citizens might do in bed or the official status of their relationships already brings that edge into view. The existential implications of that merit deep thought by all concerned. Who plays with concepts of freedom and choice plays with scalding philosophical coals.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ottomanboi
      Great post but it’s best to use smaller paragraphs so as to avoid flying hammers. 😉

    110. Petra says:

      O/T

      ‘Juncker: Independent Catalonia will have to join EU membership queue.’

      I’m just posting this snippet for anyone is who is interested in knowing what’s going on in Catalonia, for example on their website, as I know that you probably won’t be able to read the full article.

      …. ‘Catalonia meanwhile is to stop sending it’s weekly accounts to Madrid defying a demand by Central Government to prove it is not using public money to promote it’s Indyref.

      Catalan’s Deputy Govenor Oriol Junqueras wrote to Spanish budget minister Cristobel Montoro telling him that the state would no longer comply with the obligation as it implied ”political control that is not related to the objectives of budget stability or to the purposes of state legislation in this matter.”………

      Elsewhere the official website of the Catalan Referendum was taken offline late on Wednesday, after Spanish Police delivered a Court Order to the web domain company, however almost immediately it’s contents returned to the Internet after the Catalan Government launched two new sites: ref1oct.eu and ref1oct.cat……..

      (The Catalonians were prepared as they knew that this would happen.)

      The new site has been registered through EuroDNS based in Luxemburg which could make it more difficult for the Spanish Government to shut it down. It is multilingual and gives information about the poll, as well as running a promotional video that has also been banned by Madrid……. ‘….

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15536714.Juncker__independent_Catalonia_will_have_to_join_EU_membership_queue/

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra OT
      The problem for Catalonia would be that Spain as a member state has a veto, which means iCatalonia would have to engage in intense diplomatic activity after a YES vote. Curiously the best solution for Spain would be for Catalonia to BE a member of the EU, precisely because of the 4 freedoms.

      Scotland wouldn’t have that previous member state veto problem, as the rUK is leaving!

    112. geeo says:

      This ‘Bradford Millar’ character is clearly trying to garner a reaction from posters which could be interpreted as “WOS in homophobic bigotry” .

      What a joke this Bradford Millar is.

      Does not seem to understand the concept of “Black lives Matter” despite it being SPECIFICALLY spelled out for them by a poster.

      Constantly using offensive comments about sexual orientation as well.

      “What they get up to behind closed doors is up to them” is highly offensive.

      What people do in PUBLIC is nobodies business, unless it is illegal.

      If you do not like public shows of affection, then look away, you ignorant bigot.

    113. galamcennalath says:

      ” You were born with the capacity to decide.

      Will you give that up? “

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJv07wDrSo

      From https://www.ref1oct.eu/en/

    114. Still Positive says:

      Capella @4.57

      As I was reading your post re Alexander Burnett and his interests all I was thinking was that we’ll get a lot of Land Value Tax from him and others of his ilk.

      We voted at SNP Conference in March to introduce LVT which is why the SG is looking into it.

      Details are in Andy Wightman’s book “The Poor Have No Lawyers” which is well worth a read.

    115. ronnie anderson says:

      Pick any you like & as many as you like, nae flavours jist colours .

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

    116. yesindyref2 says:

      I think basically what Bradford Millar is saying is that he doesn’t like any kind of discriminatory extremism.

    117. Rock says:

      When is the court hearing for the case against Dugdale?

      In my humble opinion, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

      It will be a wonder if this Twitter archive leads them to rule in the Rev. Stuart Campbell’s favour.

    118. Petra says:

      New Catalan site:

      http://www.ref1oct.eu/en/

      ……………………………

      @ Capella says at 6:15 pm …. ”Petra – it’s a scandal isn’t it that such a devious person – who booked Crathes Hall for Theresa May’s meet-some-of-the-people election event under the guise of a children’s party – gets away with asking questions favourable to his business interests.”

      Yeah it looks as though a despicable wee lobbyist has snuck into Holyrood through the back door. I’ve also read previously that Westminster’s lobbyists are drooling at the opportunities Scottish politics presents and have been targetting individuals who have inside track to Holyrood politicians, however in this case they’ve got a direct link to Mr Burnett. More than anything we’ll all have to keep an eye on Mr Burnett because he’s not in Holyrood to serve the people, that’s for sure.

      …………………………………………..

      Very interesting post on a number of counts Ken and well worth posting again.

      @ Ken500 says at 6:07 pm ….. Alexander Burnett and his family own half of Deeside. His mother is a cousin of the Queen. He was a councillor. 3rd rate reject. Bacon business firm, which is a shambles They got contracts for Aberdeenshire Council maintainence work. £Millions. They overcharged. Despite being warned countless times. They were changing over the agreed (contract) profit margin. They overcharged £Million. The Council officials were trying to reclaim the funds. To get it back before the Councillors found out. The Tories would have been trying to cover it up. They lost the contract. It wasn’t extended. Did the Council get all the money back?

      The Green Hut May electoral appearance was on the Deeside land. The landowners are involved in trying to carve up, the Council to their advantage, through the unionist/green Parties, A real conspiracy of greedy demanding interests. All intertwined on the network. Including the local Thomson paper interest. Intertwined in unionism to carve up the public assets. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      Unionist council. The chairperson of the education committee. A personal friend of May and used to be active in her Maidenhead constituency Party. Intending cutting education (+ LibDems) £Millions. Ignorant incompetents. Totally out of their depth. Not fit for public office. On a screwed electoral system. The Green Hut appearance electoral appearance was on the family land. Many on Deeside support the Royals. Balmoral and all that patronage.

      The Deeside company family raised £25Million (mortgaged against the land? ) to cover loses because of the downturn. The Oil/Gas downturn caused by the Tories illegally high taxes on the Oil & Gas sector. 40% since Jan 2016. To high for profitable exploration and development when the price had fallen.

      There are many unionist sharks swarming around Holyrood trying for Gov contacts to embezzle waste and public money. On grotesque non mandated low value projects. Against the majority wishes and the public interest, Squandering and wasting public money like there is no tomorrow, Enough is never enough for them. The reason they join unionists/green Parties, especially in Scotland. Extremely low ability with no empathy for others. Not nice and dim. To dim for the family businesses. So they go into ‘politics’. Totally unsuited. Nasty, Ignorant incompetents.”

      …………………………….

      And an excellent article in the National today by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp.

      ‘Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: Henry VIII powers … a very British coup d’état.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15536794.Gordon_MacIntyre_Kemp__Henry_VIII_powers_____a_very_British_coup_d_____tat/

    119. Liam says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      And I did take particular offence that Nicola Sturgeon was apparently happy to appear at an LGBT rally in Glasgow recently but somehow couldn’t be bothered to attend the great Indy march last June. An absence shared by all but one of her fellow SNP MSPs. It gives an entirely wrong impression of priorities. (As the results very evidently showed.)

      Like the rest of us, RJS, she learns from her mistakes.

      I was at the ‘LGBT rally’ (Glasgow Pride) and I was more than happy to see her there. (And Patrick Harvey too.)

      Independence aside it’s the sort of thing the FM should be doing as her ‘day job’ and it is scandalous that her appearance to officially open the weekend was the first time a serving First Minister or Prime Minister has addressed a Pride.

    120. defo says:

      Gays kissing passionately in public gies me the dry boak.

      Same as with straights 😉

      Get a room.

      Well useful days work Stu.

    121. yesindyref2 says:

      @defo
      Possibly an argument for compulsory removal of tonsils.

    122. Petra says:

      @ Yesindyref2 says at 6:57 pm …. ”Petra the problem for Catalonia would be that Spain as a member state has a veto, which means iCatalonia would have to engage in intense diplomatic activity after a YES vote. Curiously the best solution for Spain would be for Catalonia to BE a member of the EU, precisely because of the 4 freedoms. Scotland wouldn’t have that previous member state veto problem, as the rUK is leaving!”

      Totally agree with you Indyref2, however we’ll have to hope that Catalonia manages to win the Referendum in October because if not (and it’s not going to go away) I could see Spain doing everything in it’s power to block us when we win. That’s no doubt why people like Alex Salmond have mentioned joining EFTA in the interim whilst we ”engage in intense diplomatic activity” with the EU …. for however long that takes.

      …………………………………

      A great wee article on a number of counts, such as an example of Scottish compassion and social integration.

      ‘Homeless eatery Social Bite enjoys oat bars donation from Aldomak.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/business/15536819.Homeless_eatery_Social_Bite_enjoys_oat_bars_donation_from_Aldomak/

      ……………………………….

      Mair jobs!

      ‘Chinese owner of Skyscanner to employ 200 in Edinburgh call centre.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/business/15536816.Chinese_owner_of_Skyscanner_to_employ_200_in_Edinburgh_call_centre/

    123. Liz g says:

      Devo @ 7.52
      I am no a fan of public displays of affection either.

      But that’s no what Bradley originally said.
      And he included the religious and coloured people as well.
      It read like he can only get on board with all of those groups not being illegal as long as they are not visable.

      He then went on to defend that position,and while he did answer me he didn’t answer my question,as to how he imagined “coloured” people kept their colour “private”?

      A Bernie Sanders Wiz robbed diatribe doesn’t even begin to explain what he said…..so much so it is lookin like a deflection, with absolutely nae concern for this site and what this post was about either.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      Yes, EFTA is a good halfway house, and they have 50 trade treaties of their own. Mmm, checks:

      http://www.efta.int/free-trade/free-trade-agreements

      27 treaties covering 38 countries. Not bad.

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 15 September, 2017 at 1:53 pm:

      “Is there not a gold mine in the Cairngorms? There was a fuss/protests about.”

      I believe you mean this one, Ken500:-

      http://archive.is/annhK

    126. heedtracker says:

      Nice wee Graun boost for future FM Anas. Its funny coz its Severin Carrell, SNP smear master himself, who ofcourse does not mention that FM Anas wont “unambiguously” back gay marriage.

      But we are talking about The Guardian that today marches hand in hand with the Orange Order lunatics. UKOK politics in Scotland gets creepier by the day but I really hope Anas wins to be next SLab leader.

      http://archive.is/U0pIB

    127. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      What the hell is going on.

    128. Petra says:

      @ Liam says at 7:40 pm …. ”Robert J. Sutherland says: And I did take particular offence that Nicola Sturgeon was apparently happy to appear at an LGBT rally in Glasgow recently but somehow couldn’t be bothered to attend the great Indy march last June. An absence shared by all but one of her fellow SNP MSPs. It gives an entirely wrong impression of priorities. (As the results very evidently showed.)”

      Like the rest of us, RJS, she learns from her mistakes.”

      Mistakes? Did you read Ken500’s post Liam …. Robert Sutherland?

      ………………………………………..

      Ken500 says at 6:32 pm ….

      ”As FM of Scotland Nicola can’t attend every random Independence Rally. Only when an official YES campaign has began sanctioned by the Scottish Parliament. Lawful. Ie has been sanctioned and a date been set and the Parliament dissolved for the purpose of the campaign. The two roles are different. Different role and responsibility.

      A FM of Scotland has to govern for the whole of Scotland (not just the SNP/members) – because of the way majority of people voted. The majority of people voted NO in the IndyRef. If they had voted YES it would have been a different matter/outcome. There is a Ministerial Code of conduct. (Which the unionists just ignore and behave criminally – incidentally). They are above the Law.

      As the Head/Leader of the SNP there are different role and responsibilities from the role as FM. There has to be a separation. Due to the results of the elections Ref results. The FM has to have a Manifesto and a mandate which is supposed to be followed. An IndyRef is different from an election etc. Different conditions rights and responsibilities.”

    129. Brian Powell says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is the Chief supporter of Independence for Scotland. Odd that some have a problem.

    130. Hamish100 says:

      OT any questions- so called independent Scottish business man Simon Boyd claims to be non-political. Click on any link and he is sooking up to Boris Johnston and the likes. Some business people have no ethics.

    131. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Hamish100 @ 20:32,

      Ach, QT’s wanton way with failing to declare the (typically BritNat) associations of its panellists is well on its way to becoming legendary.

    132. Brus MacGallah says:

      @Artyhetty 11:45 am:
      It is possible to pan for alluviel gold at Leadhills in South Lanarkshire and Balle an Or (Gold Town) near Helmsdale in Sutherland.

    133. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      But think of this in relation to the “reliability” and “accuracy” of media in reporting, or in other words making up a total load of rubbish. In this case about a DT article about three-quarters of warships being out of action, and Ocean delayed for a week with “engine problems”, and also the usual garbage about shortage of crews, the UK Gov had to publish a denial, very unusual for defence matters:

      https://modmedia.blog.gov.uk/2017/09/15/defence-in-the-media-friday-15-september/

      Remember what I said – this sort of thing can be used to discredit the cr*p media, and it has nothing to do with Indy. Just ignore the second part about Russia!

    134. Big Phil says:

      What is wrong with showing yer feelings in public,has nobody here ever been in love and wanted the world tae know? Bunch a auld farts. lol
      Anyway; regarding the abuse gay people endure and have done for an eternity ,I feel that our younger generation are more understanding of their fellow humans and that we are all equal. My son and daughter go to gay right parades with their heterosexual partners and or, gay and straight friends. My son was asked to right a slogan for a banner and he remembered what I had always told him when he asked about same sex relationships. The banner said one simple message…….EVERYONE NEEDS A CUDDLE.

    135. Robert Louis says:

      Geez, take a wee look at the article by Rev Stu and its subject, then consider the context, then wise up and realise that way too many of you have been played good and well today, by a clear troll trying to stir up homophobic comments. Comments that can be taken out of context at a later date.

      I thought people on here were a wee bit smarter than to fall for such a clear Play by a troll.

      Come on folks, realise how you are being played, FFS!

    136. yesindyref2 says:

      Right, I’m on a roll 🙂

      Catalonia – EU – Juncker. What he said (according The National which makes a sound effort at accurate reporting – both in favour and “against”):

      But Catalonia will not become an EU member state the day after that vote. It would have to follow that same procedure as other countries for accession.

      “the day after the vote”. No, of course not, formal application has top be made in accord with the Articles, same for Scotland. But it’s unlikely even Catalonia will be independent “the day after the vote”, it would take time, same for Scotland.

      As far as I know there’s no reason in the EU Articles to stop talks, even formal talks, beginning after a YES vote but before actual Independence – specially if the current member state facilitates such talks – and possibly a “friendly” member like Ireland. As far as I can see, all the groundwork could be done, and 1 minute afer midnight the formal application could be signed and even some transitional arrangement put in place with no interruption.

      Yet people will be reporting this as Juncker saying that Catalonia and Scotland will be out of the EU after Independence, in fact there’s one arguing on that thread that a vote by Catalonia for Independence is a vote to kick themselves out of the EU.

      It’s all about accuracy and facts = F.A.R.T. 🙂

    137. defo says:

      What was wrong with the banner, so as he had to fix it Big P ?

      Yours, Auld fart 🙂

      ps Can I get a cuddle too please ?

    138. Big Phil says:

      @ defo.
      lol ok ok, ya auld fart. he wrote words on a banner. lol

    139. Big Phil says:

      @ defo .
      Cuddles in the post.. x

    140. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 21:19,

      It’s often hard these days to FART. The headline of that article in The National itself committed one journalistic cardinal error, retailing as it did the BritNat myth of the “queue”, a usage entirely unsupported by the text itself, or indeed by reality.

      As to the repetition of the BritNat notion that to vote in a legitimate referendum (anywhere) for indy is to vote to leave the EU, that proposition has never yet been tested, and the EU itself* has preferred to studiously avoid the issue for fear of offending its constituent nation states.

      *(J-M Barroso excepted, but entirely on his own account and just to please his pal Cameron in the hope of favours returned.)

      But one day this will be tested, I feel. A denial of the basic right to self-determination doesn’t exactly sit well with EU principles and human rights.

      Catalonia’s specific difficulty is that an independence referendum isn’t recognised by the current government of Spain and its political placemen in the Spanish Constitutional Court. But for exactly the same reason as above, even that obstacle can’t possibly survive a serious test.

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      I was a bit surprised to pass a young guy walking down the Wellgate steps the other day, all dolled up as a stylised Japanese school girl. Marvelous, though I did think his skirt a tad short and provocative for that time of day. I didn’t know where to look, frankly. 🙂

    142. Cactus says:

      Tomorrow morning Scotland (in just over 12 hours):

      VENUE: Glasgow.

      MEET at Holland Street 10:00am for,
      MARCH at 10:30am Green bound.

      Then we descend upon Freedom Square fae there, friends and allies.

      Otherwise, see ye on the Square.

    143. Highland Wifie says:

      The Rev has certainly opened up a lively conversation but it’s been heartening reading the posts and having it confirmed that wingers are a very kind, supportive bunch who see human beings before they see colour, gender, sexual preference etc. That’s as it should be. If indeed, as Robert Louis believes, there have been attempts here to encourage homophobic comments in an effort to smear they will have been very disappointed.
      Anyway I’m off to Trump’s America to visit the new grandbairn. We are a Scottish cliche our family- one son in the US and the other in the black hole that is London. Following in the old tradition of being forced to leave their homeland for opportunities that WM are trying to make sure we will never have here. Two more Scots that can’t vote SNP.
      Will be keeping an eye on Wings while I’m away and hoping I don’t miss anything exciting like indyref 2 being announced lol.
      Looking forward to informing and educating the Americans wherever I can.

    144. Liam says:

      Petra says:
      15 September, 2017 at 8:14 pm

      @ Liam says at 7:40 pm

      Like the rest of us, RJS, she learns from her mistakes.”

      Mistakes? Did you read Ken500’s post Liam …. Robert Sutherland?

      Yes, only after I had posted. I am happy to be corrected/ withdraw. 🙂

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      Big Phil
      The New Right intend turning the clock back to an authoritarian and paternalistic social structure shaped around Christian fundamentalism and ‘traditional’ values. Such an approach to government is highly unlikely to respect difference. Without the respect of difference, love has little hope of survival (see HMG v Scotland).

    146. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Robert J. Sutherland at 9.40

      The central principle of the United Nations is

      “All peoples have the right to self determination;by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”

      “Self Determination” referenced as a right in article 55 and article 73 of the original United Nations charter and the above was an expansion to that as decolonisation speeded up unevenly in the late 50s and early 60s as a defining position that is general to all communities, people and nations in this world.

      UK is an original signatory and sits on the Security Council and any notion that they can legitimately or democratically turn down a legitimately mandated referendum for Scotland in front of the rest of the world is bluff.

    147. Colin Alexander says:

      “As FM of Scotland Nicola can’t attend every random Independence Rally. Only when an official YES campaign has began sanctioned by the Scottish Parliament.”

      What is the basis for such an assertion?

      Show me where in the Scottish Ministerial Code of Conduct Nicola Sturgeon or other members of the Scottish Govt or SNP MSPs are banned from attending independence rallies as private individuals or as members of the SNP.

      I have a more logical explanation as to why the SNP professional politicians don’t turn up at pro-indy rallies; it is simple.

      The SNP are not primarily pro-independence: They are primarily pro-devolution, as they are now in cushy, extremely well-paid jobs.

      Even the highly talented and highly educated very small minority of SNP politicians who could earn more outside politics; could they do it as easily as talking mince and pressing a button to vote and getting their office staff to deal most of their workload?

      To be fair. The same easy money complaint can be said for many of the politicians of other parties at Holyrood.

    148. defo says:

      Big Phil
      Ta. Cuddle by return, on arrival.
      Sorry, but nothing gets the auld fart juice flowing quite like a spot of pedantry.

      Are tongues ok ?
      Pre/post nightfall ?
      So many ?s
      Where does heavy petting fall on the pc boak-ometre?

      Is cottaging a greater wrong than dogging ?
      It’s not homophobic to get wee wee anxiety when you realize everyone else in the gents either have MASSIVE bladders, or… is it? 😉

    149. Dr Jim says:

      Willie Rennie created the Scottish parliament and he’s winning again just like he did twenty years ago, he says
      If Monica Lennon had been around then what a team they’d have made

    150. cearc says:

      Highland Wifie,

      have a good trip.

    151. Highland Wifie says:

      Thanks cearc.

    152. Tinto Chiel says:

      “UK is an original signatory and sits on the Security Council and any notion that they can legitimately or democratically turn down a legitimately mandated referendum for Scotland in front of the rest of the world is bluff.”

      Exactly, DMH.

      All these Tory Establishment chancers have left is bluff.

      Wotchagonnado, Scots?

    153. budwiser says:

      Cactus 9.44pm

      He is the First person to remind us that there is a Rally in Glasgow tomorrow.

      How very strange for a so-called Pro-Indy website not to mention that there is a Pro-Indy Rally in Glasgow tomorrow.

      Better not say any more about it.

    154. t42 says:

      All that evidence should make it a quick win! If the loosing party is paying costs, read them out very slowly. 😀

    155. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You forgot one @ Capella says at 4:57 pm

      “Mr Burnett’s register of interests”

      Eck Burnett o’ Leys is the son of James Comyn Amherst Burnett of Leys and Fiona Mercedes Phillips.

      He is a fourth-great-grandson of Nicholas I of Russia on his mother’s side.

      He was educated at Eton College and Newcastle University, where he graduated with an LL.B.

      He is also a ‘Wank’, not a ‘Good Guy’.

      His Land Value Tax Bill will probably make him greet as much as he did in his first term boarding at Eton (I hope).

      The sooner parasitical silver spoon chinless f*ckwits like Ecky Burnett o’ Leys are made to pay their way to a fair and appropriate level in Scotland the better.

    156. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      On Topic:

      As for sexuality/asexuality, colour, creed, religion, nationality, sex at birth…. etc. etc.

      These matter not a f*ck.

      It is how you conduct yourself and treat others that matter in my opinion.

      You can be a Purple Trans Satanist Martian Haemaphrodite and still be a self serving nasty wee bastr*d.

      Treat folk the way you want to be treated.

      Respect their life choices the way you expect your life choices to be respected.

      Say what you mean and mean what you say.

      And above all else actively shape the kind of society you aspire for yourself and future generations to live in.

      Scotland, our land, your land.

      No long now Dudes and Dudettes.

    157. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Powell says: 15 September, 2017 at 8:26 pm:

      “Nicola Sturgeon is the Chief supporter of Independence for Scotland. Odd that some have a problem.”

      Nothing odd about it, Brian, those people don’t have a problem they just have a different agenda that would seem to transcend priority that, in their minds is above that of Scottish independence.

      They usually all have some king of allegiance to far left parties. A far left that has no elected members at Holyrood, Westminster or Brussels but these people dream that one day there will be a far left Scottish Government.

    158. Cactus says:

      It is written…

      1) First they ignore you
      2) Then they laugh at you
      3) Then they fight you
      4) Then you win

      iScotland version…

      1) First they ignore us
      2) Then they laugh at us
      3) Then they fight us
      4) Then we laugh at them
      5) Then we win

      Welcome to stage four.

      A Scotsman
      15/09/2017

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBYo9o6y1k4

    159. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Good news before the big rally in Glasgow tomorrow (muster at Holland Street- between Bath St and Sauchiehall St – from 10p am)
      Latest Survation poll shows sharp rise in support for independence – up 3% to 46% following You Gov Poll also showing 3% rise. We are on the move and we haven’t started yet

    160. Doigie MacHale says:

      Sympathy to all those folk in England affected by explosive device on the London tube at Parsons Green today! No excuse, explanation or dialogue can provide justification in even the most warped of minds for this outrage where innocent people are targeted for being innocent!!!

      Makes me so proud to be part of a Scottish independence political movement that is non violent, transparent and inclusive!

      Re gay rights, fully against them, they should not be needed in an advanced society, everyone regardless of gender, colour, age, religion or sexual orientation should be treated the same. No ifs, no buts or equivocation, let’s make Scotland an exemplar of an inclusive society!

      Making LGBT people a special case to be singled out for state protection does not make sense and will not work. It implies these folk are not the norm where as we know they are, they are part of us and are the norm and have been for thousands of years!

      Diversity and inclusiveness in Scotland are to be celebrated! What is the alternative, life in the uk?

    161. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Aye @Cactus says at 10:38 pm

      It is written…

      Love and Laughter

      All the way

      Leave the BritNats to the Hate and Anger

      They’ve had their day

      So has the fanny who claimed the Rev wisnae a fan o’ thon gays

    162. Big Phil says:

      CACTUS … gaun yersel mate. I love your attitude and vision. 😉

    163. Colin Alexander says:

      Good luck to all the people intending to attend the pro-independence rally in Glasgow tomorrow.

      The weather forecast is not bad, so hopefully there will be a good turn out that will make the SNP and the unionists sit up and take notice.

      We want an independent Scotland.

    164. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie says 9:48 pm …. ”Anyway I’m off to Trump’s America to visit the new grandbairn.”

      I hope you have a lovely holiday Highland Wifie. Bet you can’t wait to hold that new babby in your arms XX

      ………………………………

      @ Liam says at 9:48 pm …. ”Yes, only after I had posted. I am happy to be corrected/ withdraw. ?”

      Good for you Liam. You live and learn on here. Well I know I do.

      ………………………………

      Alex Salmond is to present a brand new show on LBC on Sunday afternoons from 3 – 6pm. Starting on Sunday the 19th September 2017.

      ‘Salmond on Sunday’ will be a programme full of fiery debate, intelligent discussion, breaking news and informed opinion.

      http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/alex-salmond/meet-lbcs-new-sunday-presenter-alex-salmond/

      ……………………………………….

      Tune into Independence Live on Thursday 21st September 2017 at 7:00 PM.

      Siobhan Tolland interviews Prof. Richard Murphy about Scotland’s future. Economist, academic, accountant, journalist and tax justice activist……

      https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/7722553

      …………………………………………..

      Forget about the lying MSM. Check out sites such as Prof Robertson’s and BfS.

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/category/westminster-mismanagement/

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/gers-political-football-really-tells-us-scotlands-finances/

    165. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie says 9:48 pm …. ”Anyway I’m off to Trump’s America to visit the new grandbairn.”

      I hope you have a lovely holiday Highland Wifie. Bet you can’t wait to hold that new babby in your arms XX

      ………………………………

      @ Liam says at 9:48 pm …. ”Yes, only after I had posted. I am happy to be corrected/ withdraw. ?”

      Good for you Liam. You live and learn on here. Well I know I do.

      ………………………………

      Alex Salmond is to present a brand new show on LBC on Sunday afternoons from 3 – 6pm. Starting on Sunday the 19th September 2017.

      ‘Salmond on Sunday’ will be a programme full of fiery debate, intelligent discussion, breaking news and informed opinion.

      http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/alex-salmond/meet-lbcs-new-sunday-presenter-alex-salmond/

    166. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie says 9:48 pm …. ”Anyway I’m off to Trump’s America to visit the new grandbairn.”

      I hope you have a lovely holiday Highland Wifie. Bet you can’t wait to hold that new babby in your arms XX

      ………………………………

      @ Liam says at 9:48 pm …. ”Yes, only after I had posted. I am happy to be corrected/ withdraw. ?”

      Good for you Liam. You live and learn on here. Well I know I do.

      ………………………………

      Alex Salmond is to present a brand new show on LBC on Sunday afternoons from 3 – 6pm. Starting on Sunday the 19th September 2017.

      ‘Salmond on Sunday’ will be a programme full of fiery debate, intelligent discussion, breaking news and informed opinion.

      http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/alex-salmond/meet-lbcs-new-sunday-presenter-alex-salmond/

    167. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie says 9:48 pm …. ”Anyway I’m off to Trump’s America to visit the new grandbairn.”

      I hope you have a lovely holiday Highland Wifie. Bet you can’t wait to hold that new babby in your arms XX

      ………………………………

      @ Liam says at 9:48 pm …. ”Yes, only after I had posted. I am happy to be corrected/ withdraw. ?”

      Good for you Liam. You live and learn on here. Well I know I do.

    168. Petra says:

      Anyone else having a problem posting on here lately?

    169. Cactus says:

      Freedom Square.

      X.

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Ah well, having been on a roll, time to mess myself with what I find a very balanced and informative article about the F35-B and the QE, written in mid-Aug this year.

      https://www.aerosociety.com/news/uk-f-35b-on-final-approach-to-qec/

      “In this age of precision missiles able to easily target runways and hangars with almost 100% accuracy, could the ultra-flexible B variant one day, be the only jet fighter that a country is able to operate from small pieces of concrete while other airbases are filled with smoking wreckage?”

      That’s one reason why I always preferred the VTOL / STOVL carrier rather than the Top Gun vanity project more suited to the Yanks and the wide-open Pacific.

    171. Still Positive says:

      I am disturbed re Fallon’s comments.

      But I will be at Freedom Square tomorrow.

    172. Ken500 says:

      Spain stayed out of the Scottish Indy/Ref totally. They respected it was nothing to do with them. It was an internal matter.

      Catalonia and the rest of Spain want to stay in the EU. Ie they both want to stay in.

      The rest of the UK voted to leave by because unionist politician lied to them.

      Scotland wants to stay in, but lying Unionists are trying to take Scotland out.

      It is a different situation compared to the Scottish IndyRef when Scotland was totally lied to continually by unionists and was used black money. Illegally. This influenced the result,

      The union terms that were agreed in the UK Union 1707 are different.(from the Spanish Constitution 1976. Catalonia is a province. In a different situation from the UK Union.

      The numbers (pop) make up are different. The economies are different, Different lifestyles, rules weather, political system. Legal system. The comparisons have to be made before considering the comparisons between Catalonia, Scotland (Quebec) etc.

      Catalonia has more autonomy than Scotland. Freedom under the Law, Raises and sets it’s own taxes. Not complete fiscal autonomy put near enough. One of the wealthiest parts of Spain. The financial crisis was made on the Costas. The south east coast, including Catalonia. 20% of the overall pop. – 7.5Million.

      Fraudulent sales of holiday/homes to foreigners and other EU citizens. Too much borrowed from London lending markets, Many people lost £thousands conned out of their life saving etc. There is an argument about €6Billion going to the Spanish Gov. to poorer other parts of Spain, who did not cause the crash but were badly affected from it. The crash/crisis hapoen on the Costas including Catalonia. Riping people off.

      The majority of Spanish politicians are corrupt. (Police tough) From the bottom Mayors – to the top. Mafia. A lot of corruption and wrong doing. There is no messing. The Spanish Gov does upholds the Law. Any wrong doing, without fear or failing , people are arrested, charged and if convicted go to jail. Politicians, lawyers, bankers, royalty, dealers murderers. They end up in court and go to prison or sanctioned if convicted. A deterrent. There is less crime. In the UK they are made up ‘Lords’. That’s why they behave so badly. They know they will get away it.

      Spain (Spanish Civil war) is split approximately. 50/50. Republicans (left wing) and Nationalists (religious/right wing) extremely bitter and brutal. – Franco died 1975 passed it on to re-instated democratic Monarchy. Named King Felipe? Secession. Modernised. The Law needed cverhauling. Bureaucratic. Separation/division of Church and Gov.

      In Spain 4 months professional holidays a year. One month at Christmas, one month at Easter. Two months in July/August. Too hot to work. High number of public holidays. Fiestas etc. It is changing. Stagnant employment market. Black market. Less tax recovery. Traditional close families. Spain stayed out of the 1WW and the 11WW but had problems of it’s one. Morrocco. Overseas territories and conflicts. (France – Algeria conflict) Hitler supplied planes and supplies to Franco during the Civil War. Franco allied with Germany They later fell out. Big time.

      Beautiful country. Hope their differences can be resolved. Barcelona and Spain are absolutely beautiful. A beautuful City and countryside. Madrid, Santander, Granada. Lovely people, climate, weather. Laid back, good food.

      Spain is relevantly new democracy. A constitutional monarchy since 1976. Universal Suffrage.

      Spain was the first country to introduce same sex marriages.

    173. Ken500 says:

      Nae problem. Click twice watch words/language. Temperamental auto monitoring. Some wiords or combination rejected.

    174. Lenny Hartley says:

      To all the Wingers heading to Freedom Square tomorrow, have a great time, unfortunately can’t manage this one, hoping for a big turnout and good weather. have Fun 🙂

    175. Still Positive says:

      Highland wifie. Nothing better than holding your grandchild in your arms. I have done it 8 times and I love them all.

    176. Cactus says:

      We have always owned midnight:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFDlu7rFsgs

      You may smile.

      It’s today.

      🙂

    177. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I thought we might get away without deeply stupid comments from Colin Alexander (or lets just call him the guy who wont tell us who his is or where) but he is on tonight in full infantile spate.

      Colin (or is it Callum or Duncan or even Alistair) what is your take on the sharp rise in support for independence and the SNP over the last immediate period? You were exulting on its shrinking level not a few hours ago.

    178. Meg merrilees says:

      To all Wings Wonders- best wishes for a hugely successful outing.
      Keep those Saltires flying.

      Looking forward to the pictures.

    179. Ken500 says:

      285,000 Catalans living abroad are legible to vote? (In Spanish elections?) By June 2017 – 5,000 had registered to vote in any IndyRef.

      Look it up on the internet.

    180. Highland Wifie says:

      Thanks for good wishes Petra and Still Positive. This is number two girl and it’s enough to be going on with!

    181. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thon Effie Deans, eh? Now there’s someone who appears not to understand the meaning of the word irony.

      Why I value being British
      …Most British citizens are completely unaware of how useful a British passport is. It enables us to travel almost anywhere. A Russian passport is rather less useful. Whenever we wanted to go on holiday, my husband would need a visa, which frequently required travelling to Edinburgh or sometimes even to London. Moreover if we ever decided to live abroad again, after a time, my husband would lose his leave to remain in the UK. This would even happen if Scotland were to become independent. There was therefore an incentive for us to obtain a British passport for my husband.

      I’ll not link to the blog-post (dated Saturday, 2 January 2016). as Scots are already overburdened with BritNat propaganda and the subsequent mind pollution it’s manufactured to produce.

    182. Ken500 says:

      Look up the Internet. Catalonia (autonomous region?) vote on a Ref vote. 2014.

      Spanish Gov blocked as unconstitutional.

      Two questions.

      ‘Should Catalonia be a State’ – ‘Should Catalonia be Independent.’ The second question could only be answered after the first one?

      2,300,000+ votes cast. Out off a population of 7.5Million, Turnout not disclosed. Estimates vary from 30% to 41%. A reportedly low turnout. It is suggested those against boycotted the vote,

    183. Big Phil says:

      Good luck to Catalonia BUT Scotland IS a Country.

    184. Petra says:

      ”Good luck to all the people intending to attend the pro-independence rally in Glasgow tomorrow. The weather forecast is not bad, so hopefully there will be a good turn out that will make the SNP and the unionists sit up and take notice.” ..

      Colin, Rock and their merry bunch of mates.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqWH-kQwXrI

    185. Petra says:

      ‘Catalonia – Self-Determination Referendum of Catalonia International Monitoring.’

      http://www.ref1oct.eu/call-for-international-monitoring/

    186. Robert Louis says:

      Petra at 0130am,

      Yet another top secret rally for independence, with zero publicity. I had no idea it was taking place – like many other people.

    187. Nana says:

      10 Scottish Council invest just under £406 million in 23 fracking companies. Info from @FoEScot briefing paper.
      https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/908468150450171904

      In pictures: Heavy crane with huge North Sea legacy starts its final journey
      http://archive.is/1FrTY

      https://www.thecanary.co/2017/09/15/famous-lawyer-disrupted-grenfell-inquiry-opening-shows-exactly-whos-charge/

      Royal Mail wants to slash pensions of Postal workers by 30% but by a piece of good luck the CEO keeps the £200k a year paid to her Pension!
      https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/908626100313575425

    188. Alex Clark says:

      It looks like the Catalan government have a mountain to climb to pull off this election and for it to be seen as impartial.

      Tensions between the two governments are on the rise, some big demonstrations and protests look very likely before this vote takes place if it even does.

    189. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Nana, it’s a beautiful morning here. I hope our friends in Glasgow are getting the same. Thank you, for your links. Kettle’s on.
      🙂

    190. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe, it’s a bit dull here right now.

      Clever use of recycled plastic here although there does seem to be some concern over toxic fumes.

      Rolling down the plastic highway. Read more:
      https://twitter.com/wef/status/907602259915272192

    191. Smallaxe says:

      A company just tried to use David Bowie’s image to sell bullets at a UK arms fair. It didn’t end well.;
      https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/09/15/company-just-tried-use-david-bowies-image-sell-bullets-uk-arms-fair-didnt-end-well/

      Next, it’ll be The Slim White Nuke

    192. Cactus says:

      2 hours to go till LIVE coverage from Freedom Square.

      https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/MarchRally2017

      See ye there!

    193. Cactus says:

      Here’s how the ‘LIVE’ view is shaping up from Freedom Square:

      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=18563

      I wonder what and who is under that black tent…?

      City of Glasgow.

    194. Smallaxe says:

      I’ll be looking out for you Cactus, make it a great day and show people that an independent mind can achieve an independent Scotland!
      🙂

    195. Cactus says:

      Will do Smallaxe.

      Think I’ll try an free-climb to the top of the Sir Walter Scott statue.

      Let’s see ye Glasgow!

    196. Capella says:

      @ Nana – That’s an excellent piece by indyref2 on why the SNP and Labour are politically poles apart. A must read (in view of suggestions of an alliance with the branch office).

      http://indyref2.scot/never-the-twain

    197. Tinto Chiel says:

      Cactus: small point. Are we walking to FS or GG?

    198. cearc says:

      Cactus,

      Uhhhm, that’s a tough guess, not.

      I see that Glasgow is ahead of the times (by 12hrs. according to the webcam).

      Have a great time.

    199. Nana says:

      It is Capella, as you say “a must read”

      I see Boris is vying with the other clown Moggie for who could be the worst PM, mind you Cameron and May have been such role models so there’s not much to aspire to.

      Heaven help us all.

    200. yesindyref2 says:

      @Alex Clark
      I try not to take sides, as it’s Constitution (of Spain) on one side, and I believe in Constitutions. That’s supported by Law which I also believe in. On the other side it’s the fight to self-determination which I believe in. And sitting in the middle it’s Democracy which I believe in, and all of them together just don’t work right.

      There is a long-term solution, and it’s almost in that article I linked to, where tens of thousands could get arrested for co-operating in an illegal referendum. If Catalonia set up a family support mechanism, then the people man the polling stations, get arrested, plead their status as political prisoners and get sent to prison (perhaps). Then another 20,000 take their places and do the same, as quickly as possible.

      As for printers, downloadable A5 ballot sheets people print off on their own home or work printers in stacks and distribute, get arrested and sent to prison, claiming their status as political prisoners.

      Basically speaking ultra-peaceful civil “disobedience”.

    201. Smallaxe says:

      The Times:
      Johnson takes on May with vision for ‘glorious’ Brexit;

      “Boris Johnson set out his vision for a “glorious” Brexit last night in what will be seen as a challenge to Theresa May’s authority and the opening shots of a campaign to replace her.

      The foreign secretary has broken from the emerging cabinet consensus, insisting that Britain should not have to pay to access the EU’s single market after its formal exit in March 2019.

      He also insisted that the UK, after “settling our accounts”, would regain control of £350 million a week to help fund the NHS, one of the Leave campaign’s most controversial claims.

      As revealed by The Times this week, Mr. Johnson has grown frustrated at claims that he misled voters during last year’s Brexit referendum.”

      A Clown, looking for a circus!

    202. Hamish100 says:

      boris johnston takes a wee flight out at taxpayers expense to the carribean for a photo opportunity advising that the marines had “axes and things” to help the local population after the hurricane. BBC do their duty with their photo opportunity then they all fly home to blighty or engerlund (take your pick)
      How much did that cost?
      Who was on the flight who were taking up valuable space for emergency aid?
      Did we fly back any injured?
      Maybe he just flew out first class on a schedule flight?
      The tories are the lowest but they are dangerous to other tories when they crave power.
      Was wee Davidson on the flight with her chummy boris?

    203. Petra says:

      @ Robert Louis at 4:17am ……. “Rally.”

      What we really need Robert is one individual taking on the role of leader of all Yes groups (with no direct link to the SNP). A dynamic Mandela type of person who will co-ordinate all events, training for activists, advertising, online educational site and so on. Someone who will ensure that every area of Scotland has a co-ordinator and team. Right now we’re all going round in circles, IMO. Not a great example I know, but Hitler had it down to a fine art.

    204. North chiel says:

      “Petra @ 0136pm “, how about Lesley Riddoch??

    205. Petra says:

      I agree with you NC. Lesley Riddoch would be ideal. Whether she’d want to do that or not is another question. It’s high time that all groups, or representatives of, got together instead of staggering on on their own. In some cases just blowing their own trumpets. High time that they put this country before their big egos. Joining the Scottish Independence Convention (SIC) might be a way forward? Who knows? They’ve had three years to do it and come up with nothing more than disparate entities. With so many showing signs of great commitment to the Independence cause, innovation, high intellect, decent work ethic and no shortage of ideas it’s a strange one.

    206. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Colin (or is it Callum or Duncan or even Alistair) what is your take on the sharp rise in support for independence and the SNP over the last immediate period?”

      What is your take on the fall of SNP support from 50% to 37%, a loss of half a million voters and 23 MPs, at the last election held in Scotland?

    207. defo says:

      Heaven help any SNP supporting, National buying, member of the Scottish legal system visiting here of of an evening.

      Did I miss anything out ?
      Doh, Scottish sovereignty advocate !

      Those who constantly greet about ‘the enemy within’ ?
      Tinfoil hatter who could do with getting out now and then, unionist T, or sage unrecognised ?

    208. Hamish100 says:

      Rock is a wee Tory

    209. George Duncan says:

      Brilliant, Stu. Thankyou. Not looking forward to the Bullseye one, though.

    210. Fred says:

      Correction! Rock is a wee Toly.



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