The nuclear umbrella
Posted on
September 16, 2017 by
Chris Cairns
(Buy Chris Cairns’ second great book of cartoons here. Plus cuddly Hamish!)
(Buy Chris Cairns’ second great book of cartoons here. Plus cuddly Hamish!)
Trident is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike…
I always knew those big, black toxic metal underwater ship thingies would come in handy one day. Phew!
That deterrence argument is really working well here then. It’s costing us billions and it’s as much use as a chocolate teapot. In the meantime as the big shiny ones sail the seven seas, the old scrappers rust in peace at Rosyth just waiting to be an ecological disaster.
Why can’t this country get off its knees, show a bit of pride, take belief in themselves, vote for Scottish Independence and get this monstrosiity the f**k out of our country?
The purpose of having Trident on the Clyde is to create a must hit target for any aggressor. In the event of Nuclear war it has been decided by the Toff Boys in London its where the missiles are that will be target no 1, therefore London and the so called Home Counties will be spared as this is the most valuable asset any aggressor would want.
As for Clydeside and central Scotland (there will be more than one bomb) well so what, we can build a monument to the dead and cry crocodile tears at it every year could even lay wreaths of Thistles and have an annual thistle day, should be a few bob in that.
Just a nuke outpost for the US. Westminster are the lapdogs.
But if we scrap trident, how will we defend the foodbanks??
One of today’s links from @Nana seems particularly relevant ….
link to ibtimes.co.uk
A fortune spent on Trident, which is useless, and not enough money for conventional ships which can be used.
Excellent. OK, OK enough pressure. Will buy the book. Happy holidays in Spain and the rest of the world. For inspiration.
Spain joined the EU in 1986. Joined the euro in 2002 after a 3 year transition period. Catalonia is an autonomous region of Spain. Not totally autonomous but as damn near to it as possible.
Catalonia is comparable to a State of London S/E, extremely wealthy. Including housing fraud and speculation. Hapoehed in the Costas of the southern coast. Compared to the rest of northern Spain. A Pozzi/pyramid scheme of housing fraud and speculation. Johnny Foreigner defrauded. Many people lost their life savings. Too much superfluous, borrowing and sprctulstion. upon the London lending markets. Some people did very well out of it Defrauding and manipulating the rest of the people, with total disregard for those in poverty/need. Sucking it in. The equivalent of the Tories. ‘Pycho bastards.’ Not the poor under dogs as portrayed,
The situation is entirely different in the UK, The Scottish Ibdependence movement is totally different for those reasons. When/if Caralonia votes No which is highly likely, based on previous voting patterns and the figures, It could/will be used as a stick against the Scottish Independence Movement. To try to beat it with. It will not succeed. The speculation. That is being set up. Lined up even as people speak by ignorant commentators, Do not buy into it. A false narrative by people who have nothing better to do. By not considering the difference. That is the danger of inconsudered interference.
That has been done already by ignorant, incompetent ‘reporters’. This fakse narrative not borne out by the facts.but being reported. If they vote NO. It will be heralded false as a victory agaibst Independence Movements, especially Scotland’s. The MSM will have a field day.a fakse narrative that does not compute by comparison or the figures etc. The incompetent, ignorant MSM has already done that. Playing this false narrative of comparison. Despite the different circumstances,
The Scottish Independence support is higher than support in Catalonia. (40%?) In Dcotland it is 50/50 and holding up well. Increasing? Despite external pressures.
The EU/Eurozone are doing well after the financial crash, Thry have come out the other side with growth and higher productivity and prosperity. Clamping down on the tax evaders who pay no tax on vast profits anywhere in the world. Clamping down on fraud and corruption in the common agriculture zone, encouraging green policies and an equal fair trade dealing, Open to all members saving fuel and energy and advocating equality and fairness. Supporting those who need it all around the world.
The rest of the UK economy is tanking. Scotlabd is only bearing up because of the )SNP) Gov and their advantageous policies. Standing up for ascotlabd. Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for FFA/Indepenence. Simple. For Scotland to be more prosperous, equal, fairer and happier. It works if you let it. It doesn’t if you don’t. One day at a time. We will overcome. We will overcome. We will overcome. One day soon.
It will be all set up. A central bank etc. This time it will not fail. Go for it when the time is right. Lessons have been learnt. A realignment with the sun and the moon, The runes have been thrown. The spider fed. The spells have been spun like a spiders web. Rehomed and rezoned. The skills rehoned. The concoction brewed. The planets are re aligning with the stars, moon and sun (not that one), in the right orbit. Let the unionists fall into the trap, of their own making. This time the time will be right . The Referendum will be won. FFA/Independence in Europe,
Leave the Catalons/Spain to get on with their own affairs and find their solution. Unique to them.
Go on the internet . PThe narrative is there. It take 5 to 10 mins. Instead of regurgitating nonsense. To find out what is really going on. The transcript available. Stop peddling the myths. It is a unionist trap. Spun by extremely corrupt, immoral people.
Arthur martin 7.53am. Do Scots do pride martin?Or is it just whingeing?
With the all too obvious incompetence of the United Kingdom government, that we can all see on a daily basis.
If the United Kingdom ever considered using the USA owned deterrent that is based in Scotland the UK incompetents would forget to change the original targets and take out several Russian strategic targets.
That would then start WWIII between the USA and Russia with both of these World Powers targeting the United Kingdom in general and the Clyde in particular.
Excellent, Chris, thank you!
Croompenstein wrote on 16 September, 2017 at 7:06 am:
“Trident is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike…”
Aye, but it’s as deadly as anything you can get and dumped right on Scotland’s doorstep by London. And don’t go believing all the BritNat crap about anywhere else not being suitable to house them – total and utter guff, folks!
There are several places along England’s south coast more than suitable for hosting these warmongering toys of destruction but the true reasons for not hosting them in one of those locations are as obvious as the nose on your face. The main one being they would be far too close to London.
Get wise, Scotland, and get these phallic symbols removed from our territory, *ASAP*. Tell London to find a new toy box for storing them because we’re keeping the current one in the divorce settlement, it’s our land!
Sorry arthur,meant to use your christian name.
No worries Bob, I’ve got one of those names made up of two Chrisrian names, it happens a lot and I don’t mind.
As for do the Scots have pride….well I sometimes wonder about that. I suppose 3 hundred years of being told you’re a useless insignificant waster whose country is a shithole and worthless gets to some people. I say to the naysayers “get it right roond yez” and get on with the business of trying to get this country the Independence it richly deserves. Have a good day matey, it’s going to be a good weekend.
That’ll be the Doomsday Clock on the wall, Chris! If ever there was a demagogue ready to scorch the world it’s Trump – and the tragedy is he has fans who will cheer him on as the flames engulf them too!
:Your knockout weekend reading:
The Hassan Hustle: link to wp.me
Of man and native: link to wp.me
The most dangerous WMDs in Scotland are delivered daily by the MSM. Weapons of Mass Deception!
Thank’s Chris.
Just about to set off for the ferry but wanted to wish you all a happy , successful day in Freedom Square.
I have no doubt that whether 1,000 or one million turn up the BBBC/STV will report ‘ over three hundred people attended’- that’s if they bother at all or find some useful cat stuck up a tree instead.
Somebody give Ronnie a hug from me , thanks!
Perhaps Kim just wants deterrence too. We should all have one.
On the train to do a bit of gathering of minds in Glasgow. It is a good day for freedom. Hope our perennial grumps are there too 🙂
@Ken500
Im not so sure that catalan will vote no.
In the last 24 hours spanish government have sent armed police into catalonia to sieze posters related to the fortcoming independence poll and are threatning to arrest mayors and newspaper editors.
Given Catlonias history with Spain under Franco, this will likely make more people vote for independence.
Spain have also said that nothing is off the table in how they will deal with this.
Denmarks observers are already making complaints to spanish government over this.
Less building of naval vessels on the Clyde. Might be a blessing in disguise. Independence will free up the funds to invest and build frigates to patrol the shores, ferries, supply boats, turbines, liners etc. Goods that can be sold, Instead of spending £Billions to support jobs in Barrow in Furness on useless weaponry. (unite – McCluskey should retire. Past the sell by date. Dominating and funding Labour policy) Weaponry which will not be used in a month of Sundays. It can’t even be fired straight. Rotting on the Clyde. No deterrent, useless and worthless in any case. Fallon wants to start a war with Russia, Make personal funding out of it. Embezzling and wasting public money. Fallon should be retired. Living in the 1950’s. Past the sell by date. Not living in the times. Dinosaur.
Thatcher restricted commercial activity on the Clyde.and used Faslane as an excuse.Dumped on Scotland secretly and without consent. by McMillan. Against the wishes of the Americans. 30 mins from one of Scotland’s biggest City and 2million folk in the central belt. It is no co incidence that under pressure and protest weaponry was remove from 20 mins of London in 1992.
Thatcher secretly and illegally used the Oil revenues to build 26 miles of Tilbury Docks. Losing jobs and closing ports all around Britain. Centralising transport through London. Creating congestion, traffic chaos and pollution throughout the City. Damaging the overall economy and depopulating Scotland.
The Tories in Westminster are Thatcher Mark 11, but even worse. If that was possible, The rest of the UK economy tanking because of Brexit. Scotland only bearing up because of SNP policies and standing up for Scotland. Scotland could do so much better with FFA/Independence. Losing £20Billion+ a year to Westmibster intransigence and mismanagement of the economy. .
Brexit will mean the removal of Trident – US funding and support will be withdrawn. It is superulous to requirement in any case. Shared EU Defence costs will be lost. Brexit will mean a lot more will have to be spent on Defence. Another Westminster irrational failure to keep costs down
Got on the internet read up,on the facts and history, voting patterns and numbers. The figures don’t add up. In any case it is their problem. if they vote. Yes or No. Both sides want to stay in the EU. . A different scenario.The Catalonia/Spain (Quebec) experience can be used against the Scottish Independence movement by false narrative of the full facts.,Regurgitating nonsense. Leave them to it.Stay out of it, The Spanish Gov stayed out of Scottish/UK/EU affairs. Respected neutrality.
Some days it’s just too much bother to giveashit.
Good luck with the Glasgow rally. Thanks for all those who can’t be there. Thanks a million.
Nuclear weapons only make you a target, being honest i cannot see Scotland being in NATO one of the requirements they will impose on us for NATO membership is for FUK (Former UK) to have it’s nuclear base remain in Faslane …. this will not be acceptable to the Scottish public.
To gain Nato membership all members would have to agree, and then their is the matter of fees for membership and fees to help Nato countries in combat situations if say Scotland opposes taking part in said conflict .
Instead Scotland should be looking to go down the route of neutrality like Ireland, i would like to see Scotland invest in a robust conventional armed forces currently we contribute around £3.4 – £3.5 billion towards the UK’s defence expenditure i would like to see Scotland spend £5 billion.
Not because of some phoney threat from Russia who spends $55 billion in defence compared to NATO’s $1 trillion plus in defence … Nato and America is the real threat to peace they are willing to use extremists to remove governments that do not follow the American uni-polar world
Japanese children must be delighted to know that Scotland is host to US weapons managed by Westminster. Japan. after all, has direct experience of nuclear weapons dropped on them by the US… the only country so far to drop nuclear bombs on anyone.
I support the SNP stance. Get rid of these appalling weapons. Who can blame KJU when faced with the history of US/UK aggression.
On a brighter note – Outlander hero’s grandfather, Simon Fraser, may be buried near Inverness. He was thought to have been beheaded in London after Culloden. The Old Fox grave is about to be examined…
link to bbc.co.uk
Good luck everyone in Glasgow today.
A little light relief…
The rude Ruth page break,
link to twitter.com
Not an account I normally look at but I got the link from Politico.
Thank goodness for Ferguson Marine in Port Glasgow, and its owned by a good independence supporter, there are some good shipbuilding yards on the clyde that don’t have to build warships to survive
Bwitains Nuclear deterrent doing a great job of deterring attacks against her population in London this week I see.
Trident is and always has been a great big hole to hide UKOK Government ‘slush fund expenditure’ of taxpayers cash under the provisions of the ‘Official Secrets Act’.
Bairns not Bombs.
Weapons of Mass Deception!
© Smallaxe
Very good!
BREAKING NEWS….. It has just been announced that scottish turkeys will be voting for christmas, when asked why, a spokesperson for the turkeys said, well you see, when your a scottish turkey and a unionist you have to make sacrifices, its our duty to have ourselves put in a nice warm oven and be cooked for a few hours for the good of all, when asked about Ruth the head turkey of the movement the spokesperson said, you cannot expect our supreme leader to sacrifice herself, and lets be honest the spokesperson said, she is a bit tough anyway, people want something succulent and juicy, not some old bird that’s so tough she would break your dentures in half… heh heh heh
Why are the SNP not campaigning to get Trident moved the England? They could block the whole place off and make it inaccessible, they could be working out alternative employment for the workers, they could be making a huge fuss, but nothing.
Still hunting for Catalonia info on the BBC site. Only one item so far – about money – how Westminster!
But this story is about Ukaranian nazis forcing a children’s author to withdraw her book about same sex parenting “Maya and her Mummies” from a book festival. Should guarantee roaring success for the book and there’s a link at the end to a free download – if you can read Russian:
link to bbc.co.uk
@ray visino…
Are you like, 10 years old ?
Defence is RESERVED to WM, so we have NO SAY where Trident is based.
It will not be a political party which removes trident from Scotland.
That will ONLY be achieved by voting YES to an independent Scotland in the upcoming referendum.
You best go back to your choo choo set.
Don’t sweat the detail @Bradford Millar says at 10:03 am Scotland holds the best hand when it comes to Military Treaty Options post Independence.
Due to Scotland’s location a Northern European option may be a better solution than Irelands.
link to en.wikipedia.org
It is simple, our geographical position versus global geo-political evolution makes this a no brainer.
Options could include:
1. Neutrality like the Swedish (as a member of the Nordic Battlegroup).
2. Join NATO like Norway and Denmark.
3. Scotland could be Neutral like Finland and still be protected under NATOs Umbrella via an “Agreement of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance” like the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948 (also known as the YYA Treaty).
So there you go, In NATO, Half in/half out of NATO, or completely out of NATO.
All of these scenarios are possible and all have pros and cons.
But all these options can only be done as an Independent Nation State (a non-nuclear one I hope).
None of these options can be done as a member of the Neo Fascist nuclear weapon armed UKOK Dictatorship we currently find ourselves part of.
Especially with its planned foreign policy of making “Britain’s arms industry the biggest in the world”.
Which if it uses the current “Arm Saudi to bomb Yemen” as a business model will make the UKOK a nuclear weapon armed Terrorist supporting and arming Rogue State.
Fallon needing to bring in hard currency to prop up a crashed economy.
Empire 2.0???
or
Indy Scotland?
I know which one I want to be a citizen of.
A while back they were demonstraiting in London about the air pollution in London saying that a third runway at Heathrow wild affect mainly black populated areas their slogan was black lives matter well I said with every nuclear weapon on Britain plus trident stored in Scotland do Scots lives matter??? I mean the threat of nuclear accidents or being the target in a war is surely a greater health hazard than air pollution???
But the Jobs the Jobs the millions of Jobs Trident provides
Disasters would occur if we didn’t have Trident, Helensburgh would sink without trace, the whole of that area would be a wasteland of poverty and homelessness, old people would stop walking up and down the seafront eating their overpriced chips and pokey hats every day, the Waltzer would stop Waltzering for the kids, think of the childrens future without the ritual of sitting on grimy old seats getting skelfs in their Arses from 100 year old fairground attractions that haven’t been painted since the war
Trident must stay for the sake of our children
And the chips!
@smallaxe 9.23 a.m. Weapons of Mass Deception [the MSM]. Excellent!!!
Forgot to mention that with Brexit Fallons plan to make “Britain’s arms industry the biggest in the world” has a problem.
Like the UKs Car Industry (I know…).
The UKs Arms Industry basically assembles weapons using imported foreign parts.
UK-US Trade Agreement no doubt in the pipeline as Euro Arms Manufacturers parts might be too pricey if tariffs imposed
So any future involvement from EU Member States like Heckler & Koch (German Company) on the UK L1A1 Rifle 5.56mm upgrade in the early 2000s might be impossible/impracticable in future.
Two links from yesterday’s BBC about Catalonia.
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
You been listening to “Jackie Baillie’s Greatest Hits” again @Dr Jim says at 10:58 am??
😉
@ mike cassidy – thx for link. Didn’t see the “Spain plays Cat and Mouse item. All very interesting to see the techniques an authoritarian state finds to suppress democracy.
link to archive.is
@Jockanese Wind Talker
if we cause the disarmament of the fUK’s nuclear deterrent we will not be welcome in NATO regardless of the GIUK all that will happen is America/NATO will try and push us out of control of our maritime waters.
I don’t trust NATO and as for Sweden they have lost their neutrality “Sweden is a signatory of the so-called host nation agreement that enables foreign units, specifically NATO, to operate within Swedish borders for exercises, crises or military operations.”
link to rt.com
America and NATO are not interested in peace they are only interested in conflict … the minute we let Nato in … is the minute we lose our sovereignty
Useless? Trident?
As an accurate defence mechanism, probably.
As a killing machine, it probably works just fine.
As an efficient weapon, it probably costs £1000 for each person it kills.
Off topic but important . . .
The Spanish government in madrid have shut down the Catalan government’s independence website and are busy shutting down any mirrors that appear (see link to ref1oct.cat. as an example)
Does anyone know if the website code is available anywhere so some of us can set up mirrors outside Spain that Madrid cannot get their hands on?
We need to show solidarity with Catalonia over the next two or three weeks . . .
We ALL need to wrestle control of our nation’s futures out of the hands of (those blinded by) the MILITARY lobbyists.
All blocs and individual nations have now neen aligned like a board game, with the dice (democracy) having been heavily loaded by unnatural politics.
WHO PUT THESE GUYS IN CHARGE?
Hmmmm. I am in no way an apologist for the North Koreans, and their game of Russian Roulette with Trump, nor indeed both of their reckless and dangerous carry on with nukes and missiles.
However, in the context of ramped up rhetoric, if you study the map, logically rule out a landfall destination for the trajectory of your missile, also avoid it landing in or malfunctioning above international shipping lanes, then in actual point of fact, it would be very difficult for the North Koreans to fire a land based missile which did NOT fly over a Japanese island or into Japanese airspace.
Just sayin’…..
@Bradford Millar says: 16 September, 2017 at 10:03 am:
” … being honest i cannot see Scotland being in NATO one of the requirements they will impose on us for NATO membership is for FUK (Former UK) to have it’s nuclear base remain in Faslane”
That is very obviously utter claptrap, Bradford. It is the kind of bullshit that is spread all over Scotland by the Westminster Establishment propaganda wing.
Let us, first of all consider the real facts. NATO is:-“The North Atlantic Treaty Organization”, and its current membership is 29 member countries. Of these only two are located in North America – (Canada and the United States) – and 27 are European countries and Turkey is actually in Eurasia.
To gain NATO membership all members must agree to help NATO countries in combat situations. There are only three NATO Member Countries that have Nuclear capability or only two when the real truth is that the United Kingdom’s is actually not an independent deterrent but is actually controlled by the USA.
Furthermore, you are making the stupid Westminster Propaganda claim that in the event of Scotland re-gaining her independence that Scotland will be leaving behind an, “rUnited”, Kingdom. This is demonstratively idiotic. The legal title of the United Kingdom correctly describes it as a union of only two kingdoms and, in any bipartite union, when one partner decides the union is over then both partners part company- there cannot, therefore be a remaining United Kingdom. Wales and Northern Ireland were integral parts of the Kingdom of England in respectively, 1284 and 1542. I.e. The United Kingdom is a union of two Kingdoms – not of four countries.
On Scottish independence the United Kingdom returns to the legal Status Quo Ante of two independent KINGDOMS and thus the Kingdom of England AND the Kingdom of Scotland are both no longer members of NATO and either NATO will have to accept both as members or both as non-members.
Now consider the stark choice that the remaining NATO member states will face – only two of those now have nuclear weapons. These two are the USA & France and the current United Kingdom is at loggerheads with France due to the UKExit now in progress.
The rest of the NATO Member States do not have nuclear weapons and then we have the stark fact that Scotland is in the unique position of having the so called, “North Atlantic Gap”, in Scottish territorial waters and that North Atlantic gap is vital to remaining under control of NATO member countries as it is the doorway for Russian naval vessels gaining entry to the North Atlantic.
Now, Bradford, you may want to reassess your Britnat propaganda inspired claims and consider NOT accepting Westminster Establishment propaganda at face value but to look at the situation as it really is.
I’ve mention only the true facts of what the United KINGDOM actually is but which Westminster runs as if it is the De facto sovereign Parliament of England in control of the three other subservient countries that England holds sovereignty over.
However, there are several other legal facts that are no more than Westminster claims with no other legal claims than Westminster saying, “Because we say so”.
Here are just a few of them:-
The UK is a United Kingdom – it is not a single united country ruled over by England.
Therefore the United Kingdom’s memberships of countless treaties and trade agreements end when the only two kingdoms part company and the United Kingdom ends.
That means all those treaties & agreements made over 400 years are up for renegotiation and cannot be assumed to be only made by the Kingdom of England. So there is an easy and a hard way for all those treaties/agreements to be dealt with.
The easy way is for the parties involved to accept that both partner Kingdoms continue as equal individual members or they do not accept the easy solution and demand that each partner kingdom must renegotiate their membership and that could be a very long drawn out process.
So, just to take the EU membership as a prime example. How will the EU treat the two former UK partner kingdoms?
Simple really – Scots voted to remain the entire Kingdom of England voted to leave. So Scotland, still being EU Citizens, must become the legacy member state and the Kingdom of England, (Three countries), get their democratically voted for wish to leave as is their right as EU citizens to opt to leave.
Like I said @ at 10:52 am @Bradford Millar says at 11:22 am
Scotland holds the best hand when it comes to Military Treaty Options post Independence.
It is simple, our geographical position versus global geo-political evolution makes this a no brainer.
Lots of scenarios are possible and all have pros and cons (some of which you have pointed out).
But all these options can only be done as an Independent Nation State.
First we need an Indy Ref 2 win.
That is the key.
NATO Membership is an issue like currency was in 2014 which distracts from this key fact.
Kurds now voting for Independence referendum. Is there no end to the desire for self-determination? No.
link to archive.is
If you think Spain is carrying out a ‘crack down’ in Cataluña wait and see how Erdo?an’s Turkey deals with this announcement regarding Kurdish Independence @Capella says at 11:41 am.
The Turks have been actively conducting an ethnic war against the Kurds since the 1920s.
@Jockanese Wind Talker
“But all these options can only be done as an Independent Nation State.
First we need an Indy Ref 2 win.”
^ 100% in agreement with the above ^
@ScotsRenewables
16 September, 2017 at 11:28 am
Off topic but important . . .
The Spanish government in madrid have shut down the Catalan government’s independence website and are busy shutting down any mirrors that appear (see http://www.ref1oct.cat./ as an example)
Does anyone know if the website code is available anywhere so some of us can set up mirrors outside Spain that Madrid cannot get their hands on?
We need to show solidarity with Catalonia over the next two or three weeks . . .
Was thinking along similar lines. I’m not technically minded but if someone could identify what’s needed I think a lot of folk would be keen to crowdfund and show solidarity with our Catalonian friends.
Is it the case that the UK mainstream media has been gagged by Theresa Mays UK dictator Government from reporting on Catalonia, and the disgraceful breeches of human rights, accompanied by threats to journalists in Barcelona?
Seriously, where is the media coverage??
Where is the condemnation by the Labour party? Solidarity with their global brothers and sisters and all that?
Their are serious echoes of the Franco dictatorship happening right now in Spain, a peaceful democratic movement and vote is being brutally suppressed by Madrid and its henchmen (Guardia Civil) and the media in the UK sticks its collective fingers in its ears, and sings lah, lah, lah… oh ,look a Hurricane in the Caribbean.
Vince Cable. Past his sell by date. The total LibDem hypocrite who is responsible for the whole Brexit mess to line his own pockets. Wasting £Billions of pubic money. The Multimillionaire defrauder who has the damn and utter cheek to lecture others. The Tory sychophant and apologist. Student loan liars. Supported a EUref for one on AV to try and advance his Party’s power and waste of £Billions of public Gambled and lost big time. Should keep out of the Scottish Independence Ref or face major continual ridicule.
Dugdale sacked for complete incompetence and lies. Breaking the Law. Receives a political award managed by a criminal homophobic. Could it get any worse. Complete and utter cheek.
No wonder people are raging, annoyed and even more angry. The damned cheek of these criminals. Most of them should be in jail.
Passing the 10,000 hits mark …. link to wp.me
(I must have a read of it sometime.)
Please help if you can folks:
link to indiegogo.com
Trident is a secret thing that we all pay loadsa money to have but we never see it so given we don’t believe a word that comes out of the UK Guvs mouths about what they spend our money on why do we believe Trident really even exists at all
Maybe they’ve only got like one, like for show, it’s not as if anybody’s allowed to pop down and count, maybe Scotland’s just being used as the decoy target so the “real country” doesn’t get bombed
#showustheTridents
Now that I’ve thought about that, it’s not so funny
Top ‘toon Chris.
Misreporting North Britain Today:
link to imgur.com
Lies, it was all lies says Vince Cable about the Brexit referendum so we must have another one with the truth
Scotland shouldn’t have another referendum though coz eh well , well they just shouldn’t, eh coz different,oh oh and the really big reason, erm well mumble mumble settled will mumble nobody wants it, mumble… NO!
Phew! glad that’s over!
The Spanish/Catalonia Ref situation is totally different from the Scottish/UK Indy/Ref sutuation. A autonomous region in a recently established democratic monarchy.
Peddling hysterical nonsense and myth will damage the SNP and the Independence cause. Try and be more rational. To compare them without considering the differences is irrational. Without reason.
Catalonia an autonomous region is a recently established democractic monarchy. The Spanish legal system does need an overhaul. Reinforced. Scotland is a older established democracy 1928 and before. Longer EU member. In a Union between two countries. A Union which is supposed to be treated equally. With a guaranteed separate established legal system and Church, a shared Protestant monarchy. Etc.
The US has been starving the North Koreans for over fifty years. China has to help them out.
Robert Louis said at 12:07 pm
“Is it the case that the UK mainstream media has been gagged by Theresa Mays UK dictator Government from reporting on Catalonia, and the disgraceful breeches of human rights, accompanied by threats to journalists in Barcelona?
Seriously, where is the media coverage??
Where is the condemnation by the Labour party? Solidarity with their global brothers and sisters and all that?…….”
It’s called Selective Reporting at the BBC in Scotland,
and Selective Amnesia by Labour in Scotland. 🙁
Shall we take fun bets on when Guido Fawkes will break his silence on the Catalan ref?
Not a word about it anywhere on his website since April 2nd, and that was negative.
Scotlands new media doing the world a service. 🙂
Hey Stu,
Did you hear Craig Murray at the rally?
He wants a statue of you in the square.
Greetings frae Freedom Square…
Glasgow………….
My umbrella has gone nuclear!
We’re awe in ra Counting Hoose ra now.
X.
Our march went frae Holland Street on a beautiful new route thru Glasgow city and arrived at Freedom Square.
Looks like the going to Glasgow Green wiz a bum steer!
Here and now.
Naturally, Kim Jeong-eun knows that and (whisper it not) he’s probably ‘targeting’ these Unionist nukes in his computer war games. Ah! what it is to have the protection of a world power around you!
hey ruth the no support for indy2 has just walked through the centre of glasgow , aye yer right no support i was seeing things .
its ok you can catch it on the next bbc report ,ten people with strange flags walking through glasgow causing little or no traffic disruption .
police scotland have the situation under control casualties are not expected .
Can’t understand the ‘keep Catalunya at arms length, coz we’re different’ attitude. We have much to learn from the Catalan relationship with their own history, culture and language. A people that manages to get hundreds of thousands onto the streets should be admired, supported and, if possible, imitated. We could really benefit from some of their extrovert radicalism in our insular, conventional British political bubble.
The Spanish state is as ‘unitary’ as the British one and Madrid intends to keep it that way, as does London. The formation of a sovereign Catalan republic would, hopefully, send a cleansing tsunami to our shores. Let us joyously proclaim Visca Catalunya Lliure!
Cearc: “Hey Stu, did you hear Craig Murray at the rally?
He wants a statue of you in the square.”
I’ll pay for the traffic cone!
Aye @at 12:07 pm
“Where is the condemnation by the Labour party? Solidarity with their global brothers and sisters and all that?…….”
Thought they were the International Socialist Party.
They claim to have inherited the mantle of the post WWI Trades Unionists and International Socialist who fought Franco 1936 -1939 in the British Battalion of the XV International Brigade.
The terror threat has been elevated to imminent throughout the UK says the news
Police Scotland says no increased threat intelligence reports in Scotland
Welsh police have no reports of the same either
So it’s just Englands UK then
Not being flippant about terrorism just sarcastic about where the media thinks the UK is
Scottish Government statement on Catalunya:
from here: link to news.gov.scot
Cheers @Cactus says at 2:11 pm
“We’re awe in ra Counting Hoose ra now.”
Hae one for me, just no a Black and Tan
😉
Sorry my post @ 2:57pm was in response to @Jack Murphy says at 1:11 pm and Robert Louis said at 12:07 pm
Dorothy Devine @9.30 am
I gave Ronnie a big hug!
Anyone know if any Wingers still in the Counting Hoose?
If so, I’ll come along – maybe after 5pm. Be good to meet up again wi’ yies all.
@ Ottomanboi, re: Viva Catalonia
We didn’t have a civil war 80 years ago, where we were an anarchist-socialist revolutionary force, so the absence of that as part of our recent history tends to make any touch-paper for mass involvement less effective for our situation. We are far removed from the spirit of revolution; they still have people alive who were present during a revolution.
But I agree with your sentiment.
Grousey,
Your just too generous!
Hadn’t realised that the Counting House was on the cards but nice to say Hi to Ronnie, Kendo and Co. at George Square.
Very pleasant daunder around Glasgow and even the very small Yoonish ensemble were entertaining…although I have no idea what the guy with the megaphone was saying. He needs to work on his technique. I think his mouth was too close to the mic or something. The only word I heard was Hanover which was right, we did go up Hanover Street.
Likewise, agree with the sentiment from Ottomanboi – Catalonia and the Kurds have every right to state their case for self determination. The behaviour of the Spanish Government is more tin pot dictatorship than modern European politics.
@Handandshrimp
If your still in the vicinity of the square there are a few Wingers in the counting house. Some you’ve met and some who’d like to meet you.
There is no plan for later but I think people might had for Waxy O’Conner’s two minutes from the square.
Sadiq Khan spends all his time working on a special separate deal on Brexit for London and all he talks about is Londoners
which is fine and his job
But how come it’s OK for him to represent his area but not for Nicola Sturgeon to represent Scotland which after all is an actual whole country
Cheers Alex, unfortunately had already jumped on a train home. However, I think we will be doing this again before long 🙂
The Times reports that British companies will quit Catalunya should the referendum ‘go the wrong way’. All sounds so familiar doesn’t it?
Catalunya deserves our unqualified support. Historic details may, as pointed out above, be different but we share a common ideal, national freedom and renewal, sovereignty and political independence. Without any trace of animosity to the Castillanos, the ancient Catalan nation must have its legitimate place in the world, as must we Scots.
The decision to hold a referendum on Kurdish independence is a rather more complicated affair; as any reading of the history of the Kurdish people will reveal. Wish them good fortune but the Kurdish situation is decidedly more complicated, what will the neighbours do?, than the Catalan and Scots ‘predicament’. Madrid and London are lesser beasts than Ankara and Tehran.
Dr Jim says:
16 September, 2017 at 2:59 pm
The terror threat has been elevated to imminent throughout the UK says the news
Police Scotland says no increased threat intelligence reports in Scotland
Cops with machine guns on Glasgow city centre today though. There is probably nowhere safe now in teamGB. And all because Blair and Brown’s New Labour wanted to go to war with George fucking Bush. New Labour socialist workers marching off to war with neo fascist Bush GOP, is why we have Trident subs, two aircraft carriers of death, delivered directly to countries in hot places that can’t strike back. But ofcourse they can.
Hope there’s a hell for all the Westminster gimps and their rule britannia war monger liggers, who voted aye for war, war, lots and lots of lovely British wars.
Catalonia/Spain internal affairs Kurds are nothing to do with the Scottish Gov in any way shape or form. Good luck with sorting out their problems. Sure they will manage. They have been at it for some time. The Westminster foreign policy decision are a disgrace. They should be called out at every opportunity. A total waste of £Trns of public money.
Never ever trust a unionist/green politician. They are untrustworthy. The will waste £Billions of public money at every opportunity to line their own pockets. Lie like there is no tomorrow. Sleekit, two faced cheats. Most of them are criminals who should be in jail. Robbing the public purse.
Never ever trust the Polls they are deliberately used to manipulate the result. Never ever trust them. A joke. Do not be manipulated in any way. Anyone who believes in FFA/Independence for Scotland. Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for FFA/Independence. Do not waver ever. Or they will have you. Lie and cheat to line their own pockets. Defraud the public purse and betray every promise they ever make. They are despicable.
Catalonia?….Catatonia from ‘our’ poisonous propapagandising State run media.
Bet MayBot the proto fascist and her capitalist cronies masquerading as political leaders are writing it all down in preparation for dealing with the ‘Jocks’ when they attempt their puny ‘fightback’…
The UVF serial killers and their coterie of armed scum protected for their silence in crimes perpetrated across the water will be awaiting orders to move on Glasgow to galvanise the ragged arse tory blue nose brigade to attack any public demonstrations in defence of our democratic mugging
Any bets ‘Police Scotland’ will be posted missing?….allowing military crackdown for public order reasons?
Enjoy today…it may be the last time Civic Scotland may be allowed to freely walk publicly.
If Craig Murray needs more money. Put it up on his blog.
Glasgow, Glasgow n Glasgow…
Fuck ra tories.
Love U.
Wings.
X.
Scotland Xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Aweright boss.
Cheers.
Hey Daisy Walker… give us a shout!
Pretty lady x.
You can go under my umbarella.
Juan P says: 16 September, 2017 at 12:04 pm:
“The Spanish government in madrid have shut down the Catalan government’s independence website and are busy shutting down any mirrors that appear.”
Which is the biggest mistake the Spanish government could possibly make. It will stiffen the resolve of the Catalans and turn most of the rest of the free World against Spain and it will even see Spain put under pressure from the European Union, the Council of Europe and the UN.
I believe that the Spanish Government has just blown any chance they had of defeating the Catalan Indy movement.
If Scotland aspires to walk on the ‘international stage’ then Kurdistan and Catalonia matter. The provincial ‘wee’ Scotland, hiding behind Britannia’s skirts, has had its day. Welcome to the adult, actual world inhabited by the sovereign states. Enjoy the freedom of responsibility!
Ottomanboi says:
16 September, 2017 at 6:15 pm
If Scotland aspires to walk on the ‘international stage’ then Kurdistan and Catalonia matter.
With all due respect to those countries in waiting, none of them can even dream of coming close to the strategic importance of Scotland today, let alone Scotland’s natural resources, green and mineral, vast oceanic territory, extraordinary scientific, industrial soci economic contributions to the whole bloody planet, you get the picture…
One of teamGB’s greatest propaganda triumphs over Scots, shat out over and over by their BBC Scotland gimps, SLabour, tory dingdongs, Billy Connolly etc, is that Scotland really is just a region, not even anything like Catalonia really, and not to do down great Catalonian masters like Picasso, Miró and Dalí:D
Catalonia is a test case for Scotland.
If they vote Yes (are allowed to meaningfully vote Yes), then become independent, quickly become recognised internationally, then join the EU … all precidents have been set.
This all increases Scotland’s chances of a successful IndyRef2 considerably.
Of course the BritNats know this. Like with most of their problems, the initial response is to ignore it and hope it goes away.
Lochside says:
16 September, 2017 at 5:46 pm
Catalonia?….Catatonia from ‘our’ poisonous propapagandising State run media.
That last comment was for you Lochside, seeing as you’re the dilettante prick spotter. Its propagandising, by the way.
Scotland like Catalunya and Kurdistan, greater or otherwise, have a right to their place in the warm sun of freedom. We are not alone. We must not allow that suspiciously ‘racist’ indifference or superior detachment to creep into our psychology regarding our relationship with ‘the world’, the complex world we hope to join. The ‘spendid islolation’ of Britain pace Brexit, has no place in the Scotland we all, I trust, desire.
The ‘spendid islolation’ of Britain pace Brexit, has no place in the Scotland we all, I trust, desire.
Or not sticking your oar into other countries affairs, is another way to go. Brexit Britain’s being going around the world begging for trade deals, just as long it’s not with the dreaded EU.
Brexit Britain sells incredibly deadly weaponry for example, to anyone at all, for any purpose, like Saudi’s slaughtering Yemeni children with British guided missiles, the laser systems currently made in Scotland.
link to savethechildren.org.uk
‘splendid isolation’….one day virtual keyboards will catch up with the speed of human thought?
@heedtracker
there is no such thing as ‘neutrality’. A free Scotland would be required to have an opinion, whether its politicians wished it or not. It is part of being a mature and responsible nation. Could a sovereign Scotland remain detached from the posturings of N Korea?
Could a sovereign Scotland remain detached from the posturings of N Korea?
That’s a different and not the issue, with say Catalonia. People get annoyed at the EU for not getting involved with Scottish independence but they are not going to because of the EU constitution.
Nation state Scotland will not be a world power, or worse, a wannabe world power, like England. A state like NK has giant neighbours close and far, from all countries across the Pacific rim, to nuke power India, currently population 1.324 billion, says wiki.
What its got to do with the UK? well almost certainly a Trident sub is bobbing about offshore NK, carefully targeting various NK cities to incinerate. Why, because we’re British.
Heed the ba’… prickspotter I may well be… and one spotted prick are you …pedantic bawbag…..go back to adoring your slovenian lover and pointlessly and endlessly trolling other trolls with your riddles.. you diddler.
A wee song for Cactus…and other bonny mairchers… to the tune of ‘all around my hat I will wear the green willow’
All around my heart I will wear the Blue Saltire
All around my heart for a lifetime and a day
And if anybody should ask me
the reason why I’m wearing it
Its all for Scotland and Scotland will be free
All around my Land
The People they are Sovereign
All around my land
For ever and a day
And if anyone should ask us
The reason why we’re telling it
Its all for Scotland and Scotland will be free.
Repeat as necessary.
Love to all. Peace and love to Catalonia (and Spain)
The 2008 Basque referendum on the question of Independence was prevented by the Spanish Gov,stating that only the Spanish Gov could hold a legitimate referendum,
the Basque`s appealed but the ruling was upheld by the European Court of Human Rights.
The Spanish Gov will block the Catalan Referendum.
Calling newbies, and everyone else for that matter “stupid” is really going to draw in new blood. Not.
This is demonstratively idiotic.
Enough already with the patronising Bob. You’re a real asset to this site, and a bit of a liability too. IMHO
Nice work on your take of the daily bull we’re fed Chris
Thank you Daisy Walker = ) Good words to a lovely tune!
Cactus and co. Well done! Big crowd big march for Indy 🙂 Have a grand time together 🙂 Wish I was there too!
Grouse Beater, a GOLD parking cone, yes?!
Chris, this must be an absoutely terrifying time for the People of Japan. BAN THE BOMB ! It’s the only way for a civilised world.
May our friends in Catalonia have the democracy and peace to pursue it that they so deserve. And may our friends in Spain find a way to accept this peacefuly and graciously.
Have a lovely evening folks =)
O/T
On fb EU Citizens for an Independent Scotland posted – Richard Leonard for Real change says “For the avoidance of doubt, let me make it clear. There will be no ground ceded to nationalism at the expense of progressive socialism under my leadership. No coalition, pacts, or deals with the SNP. And no second independence referendum”
Ottomanboi says:16 September, 2017 at 2:47 pm:
“Can’t understand the ‘keep Catalunya at arms length, coz we’re different’ attitude.”
Yep! It is very, very obvious that you cannot understand it, Ottomanboi. For starters no one, well no one I’ve noticed on Wings, said anything about keeping them at arm’s length.
Only that the two situations are quite different and what is more the differences were made clear.
That being so the two situations cannot be compared to each other. Just as Oranges & Apples are both fruits but adding a number of oranges to a number of apples makes neither a quantity of oranges nor a quantity of apples. It makes either a bowl of fruit or a fruit salad.
The only things Catalonia & Scotland have in common is they both seek to be independent countries and both will ultimately succeed in doing so. As such we should, and do support each other. What we cannot do is learn from each other for the two situations are not comparable.
Scotland is the only legally equally sovereign partner kingdom in a United Kingdom that is currently being illegally ran as if the country of England was the United Kingdom yet England has no elected Government. Westminster is working as if it were the Government of England that no one has elected as such.
Westminster is using EVEL in order to govern England and prevent the other countries in the United Kingdom interfering in how they run England but Westminster is also claiming sovereignty over the other three countries of the United Kingdom and one of them, Scotland is a partner kingdom.
Westminster, is as its title attests, the United Kingdom parliament and there are only two kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union.
In the case of Spain they are a unified country but are run as autonomous regions of one country. At the present time Catalonia has far more autonomy than Scotland has yet Scotland is legally a fully equal sovereign Kingdom that along with the three country kingdom of England are the only legal partners in the United Kingdom.
We thus cannot learn anything from each other but that doesn’t prevent us from supporting each other.
Scots Government statement on Catalonia.
link to news.gov.scot
Lochside says:
16 September, 2017 at 7:41 pm
Heed the ba’… prickspotter I may well be
You’re more than that Lochside, is the point. Going to tell us how we’ll all be killed by the UVF again, in between prick spotting?
FlowerofScotland thank you for delivering the Ronnie hug!
Went the day well?
O/T – a bit late and I should be out clubbing etc anyway,
Just watched a u/tube clip of Dave McEwan hill interviewed at the forward shop in Dunoon, in my view a very good watch and should have a wider audience, So many interesting and intelligent folk supporting YES the biggest problem is probably getting the information around,
The interlopers who have attached themselves to almost every Indy site are doing it to create a fog and gum up the works and some how prevent the free flow of information everyone should have.
Again a good view well worth the effort looking for it, Forward Shop Dunoon .
Great to meet some Wingers in the Coonting Hoose this afternoon. Callout for Bob S. & Bob, Ian Brotherhood, Crazycat, Betty Boop, Cactus, Ronnie Anderson.
Great to see you all again guys ‘n’ gals.
Last (but not least) – Paula Rose. Great to meet you, doll. I have to say – I have never been stroked quite like THAT EVER!!!! A wee bit surprising to begin with but hey – I will never forget it, hon.
re;Heedtracker@6.27&Ottomanboi
Yep, and vice versa. If Catalonia and Kurdistan are hoping to feature on the ‘international stage’ then Scotland matters. In fact if Scotand didn’t ‘matter’ we would be independent right now, set adrift by UKOK a long time ago.
I was watching some good youtube vids about Scotland’s peatlands. Did you know that Scotland consists of 20% peatland, and has 15% of the worlds ‘blanketbog’. Now that might seem insignificant, (as a friend in Eng told me Scotland is ‘insignificant’, prior to Sept 14) but it’s massive. 15%, in the world and the yoons started to destroy it with drainage and useless pine trees for tax evasion and to make a quick buck, in the 60/70/80s. It’s now it’s costing loads to restore if that is even possible. Hopefully the Scotgov have stepped in just in time.
I’d say that Scotland is very significant, I mean carbon store capacity of Scotland, via peatbogs, exceeds all of that of England’s forests. Hugely important as we all know.
It surely must be morally criminal to have nuclear weapons, anywhere. To have them forcibly housed in a next door country, against the will of the people living there, doubly criminal.
Great image today Chris btw.
it’s massive. 15%, in the world and the yoons started to destroy it with drainage and useless pine trees for tax evasion and to make a quick buck, in the 60/70/80s. It’s now it’s costing loads to restore if that is even possible
That’s a giant UK tax haven/dodge too but you need a lot of money to get a taste.
Blanket alien species plantation tree farming in Scotland is not any different from the palm oil plantation farming in south east asia, just as destructive, just as profitable.
link to treehugger.com
Big difference between south east asia countries currently being ruined by the palm oil industry and Scotland? Scotland’s got a far more effective propaganda unit, led and coordinated by the UKOK BBC Scotland gimps.
Enjoyed the walk and rally in Glasgow today, not as busy as last year but good all the same.
One criticism I did hear apart from Marmite, love him or hate him Sheridan was that it’s difficult to get to Glasgow or Edinburgh from Inverness for a 10/11am start.
So, how’s about a YesNess rally? I’m sure the good folk of Inverness could accommodate a few visitors although last time I went there parking was a real pain. Need some local input.
Personally I’m lucky, I can use the Halbeath P&R and use my wrinkly’s bus pass, alternatively the use the campervan and make a few days for a trip.
link to caltonjock.com
Burp!
Scotland is fucking amazing!
Never forget that.
Ever.
Hi dakk, hi rjs, hey Daisy!
You can come under ra umberella.
We are and be cool.
iScotland sooner than we think…
Wink wink. 😉
Hey Jockanese, hey Big Phil et TJenny.
HOMEward bound.
Xx.
The hard core are about to vacate the bar…
Ronnie Anderson, Ruglonian et aye.
FUCK RA TORIES!
You know who ye are.
Love the love xx.
YesNess – sounds good.
Aweright dare Chris Cairns.
The nuclear umbrella.
Aye.
Peffers, heedtracker, others, all day. .
Read and spread everything written and thought through.
Weave always owned midnight.
22nd Century iScotland.
Do it for yer kids.
Do it for you.
I ponder!! The Treaty of Union was agreed following a debate in the Scottish Parliament following which a majority supported the signing of the treaty.
I expect today’s legally elected Scottish Parliament would present a majority in favour of withdrawing from the treaty.
If it did so and Westminster blocked it would the European Court support Scotland?
Hey pals, home safe thanks to the lovely Ronnie – no night bus nutters for me! – and a big good night kiss to all my boys 😉
See you all soon, thanks for another brilliant evening – Onwards!
Boris @ 12.07
Interesting. I believe the SP cannot vote on it as it a reserved matter. But they also voted in June 2016 to send the FM to Europe to argue Scotland’s case. The SP basically devolved Foreign Policy to the Scottish Parliament.
@Ruglonian (12.27) –
Hoots tae you sister – twas a braw nicht indeed.
😉
@ Ruglonian so’s me hame safe, you dont need tae get oan a bus you were in the company of they Wings nutters aw day an aw night lol.
aw we need noo is Cactus tae report in hame safe .
Ian Brotherhood , see ah telt ye Wingers Wing it Great night Lads N Lassies .
Glad to see you all had a good day/night. Sleep well.
Headin’ home the auld fashioned way Ronnie…
These boots were made fur walkin’.
Will shout ye when ahm HOME.
@boris says: 17 September, 2017 at 12:07 am:
“If it did so and Westminster blocked it would the European Court support Scotland?”
I’ve been attempting to get the fact that the majority of people in Britain and perhaps right throughout Europe or indeed the entire World are somewhat confused when they think of, “The European Court”.
You see, boris, there is, “The European Court of Justice”, and that is the highest court in the European Union and the EU has only 28 Member States.
Thing is that there is a much higher European Court and it is, “The European Court of Human Rights”, and that court belongs to, “The Council of Europe”, and that has 47 member states and includes the 28 EU member states.
Here is part of what Wiki says:-
So basically that court is restricted to dealing with EU law only.
The European Court of Human Rights is far, far more relevant and here is part of what Wiki says about that court:-
You will note that even individuals can petition the European Court of Civil Rights, (It isn’t as easy as that statements sounds, though).
However I believe that there could be some gains made if the SG or SNP as a party, individual SNP and YES movement branches or SNP Constituency Associations petitioned, “The European Court of Human Rights”.
Not necessarily directly about independence but perhaps along the lines that we are an equally sovereign partner kingdom in a United Kingdom now being run as the de facto Parliament of the Country of England and being treated as just another English dominion like Wales and Northern Ireland. Both of which were integral parts of the Kingdom of England long before the bipartite Treaty of Union was agreed and signed.
@Ronnie Anderson et al –
Youse are aw pure bams.
At’s aw am sayin’.
😉
XXXX
Robert Graham@ 9.09pm
Good interview Robert, thanks.
Link here: link to youtube.com
It looks like people in Catalonia and not voting in high enough numbers to support holding a Ref in Independence. 2014.
2.300,000+ voted YES. To hold a referendum. The Catalonian authorities (politicians) of the totally autonomous region did/will not disclose the full result? of Voter %? Turnout It is calculated 30% to 40% of the electorate voted. It does appear a majority did not vote (to hold a referendum) The population is 7.5 million. Some will not be eligible to vote ie children etc. It is unlikely 1/3 of Catalonia population are children? Like most European counties the population is falling without migration. There was a dispute about €6Billion (£4Billion at the time. – exchange rate) This is not as high as it looks, Catalonia is 1/5 – 20% of the Spanish population. One of the wealthy provinces in Spain.
The banking crash in Spain predominately happened on the Costas. The Mediterranean coast. Housing fraud and speculation of which Catalonia played a part. Spain was borrowing too much from London lending markets which fuelled the banking crisis (in Spain) Holiday homes. Many EU citizens and others lost their life saving or deposits on houses etc which were not build or were of lower value. Worth half. People were defrauded with no rights. The Spanish legal system neeeds overhauling. It is geared to cheat, ‘foreigners’ EU citizens and residents.
However the Spanish Gov without fair or favour do enforce the Law when it comes to wrong doing. People are arrested and charged sent to prison if convicted. No matter who they are. Lawyers, judges, politicians, royalty, sports personalities, wealthy, poorer, thieves and murderers etc. This can act as a deterrent. Crime by comparison is relatively low. In the UK wrongdoers are lauded and honoured, especially donators who perpetuate the system and pollute the criminal justice system.
The Catalonia question is – two questions – ‘Should Catalonia be a State’. Then. ‘Should Catalonia be an Independent State. The second question can’t be answered. Without the 1st question being YES. In Spain other resident EU citizens can only vote in local or EU elections. They can’t vote in regional or national (Gov) elections) or Referendum? Or stand for election? Not eligible. It is reported they were/are eligible to vote in the Catalonia Ref Question? Is that accurate?
This is all totally different from the Scottish Ref (movement). In Scotland a majority of people voted for parties who supported it. On a PR (which is intentionally deliberately confusing for voterrs) A higher % of voters voted for it in Scotland. It is 50/50? A higher number. There is more support for Independence in Scotland. Higher nos voted for it proportionately
There is no fiscal autonomy in Scotland. Scotland is screwed big time by Westminster politicans for whom Scotland did not vote etc. Deceived criminally. Unlawfully mismanaged by a criminal Westminster Gov for whom the majority in Scotland did not vote. It is not about ‘Nationalism’. It is about right and wrong. It is about representation and fairness. No taxation without representation. Proper consultation. Not lies, deceit, misrepresentation fiddling the books and fraudulent representation. Betraying the voters since 1928 and before.
It could be argued the Spanish Gov authorities are restoring authority/order according to the majority people’s wishes. The Catalonian authorities are acting lawfully. According to the people’s wishes, voting pattern. The Catalonian authorities do have a majority in coalition with another Party. However it would appear a majority of the Catalonia electorate are not voting for it when the question was asked about having a Ref. It was an extremely low turnout (30/40%) for whatever reason. They will have to sort it out. Hopefully peacefully and democratically.
Spain is a beautiful country with wonderful people. Heathy lifestyle and diet. A realitively new Democracy. A constitutional monarchy. 1976. Joined the euro, after a three year transition 2002. EU membership has been good for Spain as most European counties. Both Catalonia/Spain want to stay in the EU. That is not a problem. Westminster Gov is more corrupt than Spanish Gov. Spain is more equal, fair and happy, Good healthier lifestyle and diet. More sunshine and free time which makes people happier. The rest of the EU (Eurozone) are doing better economically than the rest of the UK. With less debt.
There is a far higher support for Ibdependence in Scotland 50/50. With a far higher grievance. Total Lack of full fiscal autonomy which is backed by 70% of support.
The situation is different in every way. Any similarity cannot be considered without considering and comparing the differences. The problem is the Catalonia (Quebec) situation will be used by an ignorant and incompetent MSM et al, deliberately. To try and discredit the Scottish Independence Movement. Whatever happens and whatever way the vote goes or events turnout in Catalonia. The comparisons are already being made. Without considering the full facts.
If people believe in FFA/Independence and Scotland to be a more prosperous, equal, fair, happy caring, cohesive country. Just vote SNP/SNP Vote for Independence Never waver. Ever. Or it will never happened. Do not let outside influences distract from the prize. Go out and do all anyone can manage to make it happen. . Do not let illegal, contemptible Westminster criminal actions distract from the goal to transform Scotland into a more equal and fairer more happy democracy.
Westminster mismanagement is costing Scotland £20Billion a year. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Never vote unionist/green. They can’t be trusted in any way shape or form. Devious liars. They renege on their promises Vows. Just look at the 6 white men Green representation in Parliament. To see how they lie. Lack of gender deviation. Any excuse will do. The talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Or practice what they preach..They renege on green policies. The SNP are greener than the greens on a balanced economy. They get things done. The unionist in coalition mismanage and ruin the economy. Waste £Billions of public money and ignore the electorates wishes, especially of those who vote for them.
Vic Cable habitual liar and criminal cheats on Electoral expenses. Cameron”s right hand man who caused the mess in the first place, is in no position to lecture others. Hypocrite. Well past his sell by date. Politicians should retire at the Gov set retirement date (for public servants). Or seventy. Unless the Parliament votes on special dispensation. There are plenty other roles they can fulfill. If required. Or voluntary.
Links
link to indyref2.scot
link to rbs.postach.io
link to calumcashley.blogspot.co.uk
link to fginsight.com
link to marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk
link to randompublicjournal.com
link to munguin.wordpress.com
link to irishtimes.com
link to jonworth.eu
link to vanityfair.com
link to dw.com
link to thecanary.co
link to uk.businessinsider.com
link to evolvepolitics.com
link to middleeasteye.net
link to bloomberg.com
Good morning, Nana, quite dull here today. Thank you, for your links. Kettle’s on.
🙂
link to change.org
link to newsnet.scot
Britain faces rebuke over refusal to back more than 100 UN human rights targets
link to archive.is
link to elnacional.cat
I can’t ever …ever …see any nation using nuclear weapons, no matter how bad things might be for them. I’m sure it was Condoleeza Rice, who over a decade ago when the US was still having major problems with Iran, had warned that any nation (non-Western nations that is …let’s be honest here) built and then used the weapon, would not exist the next day. Their land and their people would be ash. I would agree with that assessment. If the North Koreans decided to fire an armed nuclear weapon at another nation, then irrespective that China sits on the North Korean border, the other major nuclear powers of the world (US, Russia, Britain and France) would nuke North Korea right out of existence. We would deal with the vast problems of radiation and the consequences of genocide in the aftermath.
However, as much as Kim Jong-Il may appear to be the mad man (and to a certain degree, he probably is), the man has no intention of nuking anyone. Simply put, he is building these weapons as a guarantee for successful negotiations, so that now and again, he can flex his muscles to get better trade agreements for his regime. For as long as food and fuel continue to supply his nation, then his rhetoric will simply be a case of mouthing off at anyone and everyone without really threatening a possible course of war. Kim Jong-Il knows that using just even one missile, or if his language did become seriously volatile, could not only see actual war, but before war would happen, he could potentially see himself overthrown by the Chinese, if not by his own Generals, as they become determined to stop the ‘problem’ that is endangering the world at that point. Kim Jong-Il knows that one or two of his own Generals, quietly persuaded by the Chinese, could end him. What General wouldn’t want to hold the reins of power if promised a better trade deal from the Chinese ally for as long as they govern a ‘softer’ North Korea?
But as to the UK having Trident. Yep …a complete waste of money. If any Western nation were to use the weapon, it would be America. I can’t ever see Britain or France using it. And if they did, well… the fury of the rest of the world would lead to sanctions and trade embargoes which would collapse either economy overnight. Only the US, Russia (and possibly China) could ride out any world sanctions. Therefore …why does this wee Island that pretends to be a great imperial power and sits at the Atlantic’s edge, with no real enemy for almost 3,000 miles …need a weapon that is only gathering dust in four submarines or in a bunker on an army base. I see no reason for it at all.
@Robert Peffers re: Court of Human Rights (17 September, 2017 at 12:59 am)
Great post, Robert. Absolutely agree with you there on the differences (and options) between the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights.
Excellent analysis on both and how Holyrood could potentially proceed beyond the UK’s own Supreme Court to gain a sense of justice when dealing with Westminster and Whitehall.
Good morning Smallaxe.
Earlier reply has gone astray. I think I forgot to remove the http from the Thomas Muir lecture by Tommy Sheppard.
It may appear later when Rev has cleared it so best check back.
Don’t want to risk a hammering for double posting!
A few more links
link to indyref2.scot
Revealed: universal credit sends rent arrears soaring
link to archive.is
Catalonia’s time has come — and Spain needs to get out of the way
link to archive.is
iMO for YES2 to succeed it must move forward as a board collection of distinct organisations targeting different groups. However, all with the same message that Scotland must be governed by those who live here.
” English Scots for YES…persuade other English people are to vote yes, but almost as importantly, reassure the nation that there is no anti-englishness in the YES movement; as our motto put it, because it’s not about where you were born, but where we are going together, as a country. “
link to englishscotsforyes.org
Another group which is becoming active is … Pensioners for independence.
http://pensionersforindependence.scot
These two groups represent demographics which need targeting!
link to cranntara.scot
All the Badges Pete the Camera gave me were distributed amongst the Wingers & Yessers. Ah telt ye Brian doon the Toon there ah conversation draw in , the only person yesterday that was able to give a brief history of Crann Tara was Donald Anderson ( thats the Scottish history NOT the kkk history ) .
I met many Catalonians yesterday many photo’s taken with the Wings Flag/Estelada .
Re universal credit. Mark sums it up here:
link to marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk
I see no reason for it at all.
England votes for WMD’s like Trident because a lot of them think they are being protected by them and they really think that England is a great world power, very deserving of its place at the captain’s table.
Its a lot British Empire self national self belief to put aside, especially on the playing fields of Eton and they get to store the WMD’s in another country too. So why ever not rule the waves, UKOK style.
English Scots for Yes are suggesting they want to get a group funded to go to Catalan for the vote, as observers.
I think you need election experience, but good for them trying to get something going.
Nana says:
17 September, 2017 at 9:38 am
A few more links
Thanks for the links Nana! I never watch BBC Scotland gimp network stuff at all, so it a great culture shock to actually see it all in UKOK action again. Their heavy heavy, BBC gimp bombastic and very scary drum roll intro is high comedy though, if youre not used to it anymore. SO serious a news broadcast, must be very important news, not some sneaky shit tory chancers trying to FUD everyone.
I did catch BBC Scotland radio, late morning last week and the beeb gimps were doing a think about how being slow, doing things really slowly, was a great way to go about your life. So i very slowly through the radio out the window, then went and got it back, tuned in again, and its just endless rangers, rangers, rangers, SNP very very bad.
Christ its a shit radio network, for only £350 million a year too.
Valerie says:
17 September, 2017 at 11:04 am
English Scots for Yes are suggesting they want to get a group funded to go to Catalan for the vote, as observers.
We need to stay out of Catalonia completely. Its none of our business, observers or not. Some Spaniards are going to lose big time, just like Scotland did 2014.
The idea of “observers” in Catalonia is just more nonsense. Did you appreciate this from Andrew Marr and this staggering chunk of BBC attack propaganda, rammed down our throats in 2014?
link to bbc.co.uk
English Scots for Yes are suggesting they want to get a group funded to go to Catalan for the vote, as observers.
—–
I read in The National there’s a group of indy supporters going to Barcelona for the vote/holiday weekend.
heedy,
Yesterday, I wandered within hearing range of R4 which I had forgotten to switch off and caught a voice saying,
‘India … following the loss of British Rule’.
No idea what it was but ‘LOSS of British Rule’ really caught my attention!
Galamcennalath @ 9.38
I believe Pensioners for Yes were out in Perth this week giving out leaflets .
My Mother in Law got a leaflet from them ,so they are out and about spreading the word now
Ronnie, Ian and the rest of you who made the Rally Yesterday.
I hope it all went to plan and you all had a great day.
I was away drilling for Oil so couldn’t make it.
See you lot soon.
Look forward to any pics or video from Yesterday being posted up on Wings.
cearc says:
17 September, 2017 at 11:28 am
heedy,
Yesterday, I wandered within hearing range of R4 which I had forgotten to switch off and caught a voice saying,
‘India … following the loss of British Rule’.
R4 is interesting in that it is just SO different from BBC Scotland gimp radio.
BBC r4 tells its millions of listeners that England and the English really are a wondrous and great thing, in the past, present and future, especially their royals worship. BBC Scotland gimps tell us we’re all shite, Scotland’s shite, SNP bad, worship the royals too and rangers are incredibly interesting. They’re really not.
Insight, UKOK media wise, brought to you by a dilettante prick:D
Also, you know youre never going to be British, as you listen to BBC r4, when you have no idea what cricket’s about and the Archers theme tune means the off switch.
It was actually a Scot’s beeb gimp that switched the Archers torturous grot to 1.45pm, from 2pm, which is only worth noting today because that particular beeb Scot ligger was moaning about the open naked anti Scots bigotry, from r4 listeners at the time. A lot beeb r4 Scots used to gripe about this level of bigotry but you never hear them moaning now. He also tried to get Today in Parliament off bbc r4 FM completely and that was a hoot and half, listening Westminster rage at him, especially the Lords.
Democracy, BBC r4 style is merely fascism, made by and for upper class listeners pretending to not be fascist.
@ Valerie re English Scots for Yes , the 1st thing they need to buy is a Alarm Clock for Math he’s late for every event lol.
link to facebook.com
Spot on cartoon. Scrap Trident.
Indeed,
They can pretend and disguise and filibuster and gerrymander and bribe and hate all they like.
We know the truth, that is, that Scotland and several other ancient sovereign populations, are being denied nationhood by a false line in the sand.
The abuse of democracy by corporate governments and their resistance to honest virtue, in effect stops human history in it’s tracks.
The flow of constitutional change is stalled when big business and owners of assets feel threatened by a fairer system.
Okay, whilst the UK gov is wasting billions on destruction toys and being a general laughing stock around the world, back on earth, we have this appeal to help feed real people, our people who are suffering the wilful neglect of self same government.
This guy tries to stop a fair number of folks from starving, helps keep them warm and attempts to give them some hope. His expectations of being able to carry on doing this through the winter have been delivered a severe dunt with prospective funding denied. He has written a book to raise funds and has an appeal on Justgiving.
Blog here:
link to marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk
Justgiving:
link to justgiving.com
I was commenting further on the ECHR, (European Court of Human Rights when it just vanished into the Ether(net). It was quite long, so I’m not going to re-do it, and if it does happen to make it onto Wings please excuse any bad spelling or other errors as I couldn’t re-read and correct daft errors.
Suffice to say I was pointing out that the difficulty I hinted at was that the ECHR stipulate that appellants must have exhausted their state’s court systems before the ECHR take it on.
In Scotland’s case that would involve taking it through the Scottish court systems followed by the Westminster created UK Supreme court and would raise the question of whether it needed to also go through the English legal system.
Systems are overhauled following technical advancement.
Some resist, but then the benefits become apparent to all.
Treaties are overhauled when a great wrong is to be righted.
Some resist, but then the benefits become apparent to all.
Except where greedy motives have hoodwinked society itself.
Robert Peffers says: 17 September at 12.51
In Scotland’s case that would involve taking it through the Scottish court systems followed by the Westminster created UK Supreme court and would raise the question of whether it needed to also go through the English legal system.
Thank you for the analysis you posted earlier.I am of the view that Scottish MSP’s would be able to forward the case for giving up the Treaty of Union directly to the relevant European authority on the basis that an opinion on the precedence of Scottish Law is being requested. If Scottish Law is sovereign we cancel the treaty
@ Robert Peffers 12.59 am – good idea. The Treaty of Union was well and truly abandoned by Westminster. Why would Scotland carry on as if it was still valid?
The Department for Exiting the EU is an entirely English affair.
link to gov.uk
Grrrrr…
Vince Cable on Andrew Marr. Thinks the fibdums are the 3rd party in UK government.
Marr doesn’t correct him.
Liz Rannoch says:
That would have annoyed me more a few years ago because the underlying mindset is that UK equals England … and nothing more. So the ignorance and arrogance would have touched a raw nerve.
However now, there might well be something beyond that. The underlying thinking could be that UK equals rUK and only rUK parties are relevant. In other words, Scotland is half way out the door already, and the Union’s on a shugglie peg.
Whatever the Yoonerartsi claim, hard Brexit seems likely, IndyRef2 follows, and the end of the UK is nigh.. Anyone who doesn’t understand that isn’t keeping up. Cable and Marr are both bright enough to understand that Brexit threatens the Union, even if they wouldn’t admit it openly.
There were Catalans in the Square yesterday, very nice folk & peeps from Lanarkshire who had just booked their flights for Barcelona & the vote!
Ruthie tweeted re: Boris Johnson’s letter in the Telegraph, which some apparently feel is part of Boris’ bid for power:
“On the day of a terror attack where Britons were maimed, just hours after the threat level is raised, our only thoughts should be on service,” Ruth said.
Ruthie of all people should know that letters are written at least a couple of days in advance, and may be overtaken by events.
Makes you wonder who is the biggest opportunist. And why the Guardian feels the need to mention her tweet at all in their article about it today.
Robert Peffers says:
17 September, 2017 at 12:51
“In Scotland’s case that would involve taking it through the Scottish court systems followed by the Westminster created UK Supreme court and would raise the question of whether it needed to also go through the English legal system….”
Only while we as a sovereign country allow Westminster to wear the trousers. Why should Scotland initiate its defence of sovereignty when merely by changing our attitudes, we might offload the burden of proving sovereign legitimacy onto Westminster? It is Westminster seeking to disrupt the status quo, so the onus is on Westminster to explain how it intends to resolve the issue of Scotland’s emphatic sovereign decision to remain.
We simply defend our sovereignty and let Westminster squander its resources trying to prove it has the sovereignty it claims to enjoy, when we know that it doesn’t. Its high time we formally tell May that her “Brexit” jurisdiction does not extend to Scotland because it is irreconcilable with the sovereign people of Scotland voting to reject Brexit. She has neither the sovereignty nor the electoral mandate to overrule us.
All we need is our Scottish government to respect Scotland’s Remain vote as sovereign, and consequently present Westminster with the intractable conundrum… Oh… Damn.
Catalan Minister of Foreign Affairs @raulromeva will be speaking to @AlexSalmond later today, listen from 4pm
link to lbc.co.uk
By the way, thanks to Robert Graham and Shinty, and of course Dave McEwan Hill, for the interview on Youtube.
Even the staunchest Unionist supporter unless they are brain dead can’t fail to notice, we don’t exist ,this whole country is being sidled and marginalised by the Unionist media.
On the Andrew Marr program this morning Vince Cable presented himself as the leader of the third party in Westminster, he said this without any correction from Marr ,
The selfsame Cable who the BBC in Scotland just by coincidence in an interview with him managed to include a reference to Indy ref2 when the whole country is engaged in Brexit, right out of the blue the BBC in Scotland stick their oar in ,
This coincidentally was just before the anniversary Independence march and rally in Glasgow , any and every opportunity to attack the Independence movement they are on it , every waking hour this relentless drip drip, chip chip, it looks like their only reason for existence .
Caught a few minutes of the World Cycling Championships from Bergen, on BT Sports channel.
Amid a mass of Norwegian flags the commentator says “it is great to be among these happy, healthy and patriotic Norwegians, who have spent millions on a world class road racing circuit which doubles as a ski route in winter.”
Just a small example of what could be but for the “proud Scot butts”,
Boris Johnson’s latest wittering. Why are we in such a mess over Brexit? It’s blindingly obvious IMO – the Tories are simply not Europeans and can’t think as such.
They believe, they are gambling, that a Brexit solution which suits them will appear at the last minute because of financial and economic pressures. Tory brains are programmed to think £££££.
Because they aren’t Europeans they fail to appreciate that the EU is not a trading organisation. It has far more to do with peace, cooperation, unity, regulation and common standards, plus citizens rights, and the EU will not compromise those for financial considerations to anything like the extent the Tories would.
1. The UK offered to give EU citizens the same rights and safeguards as UK citizens have. That just isn’t good enough! One of the objectives of Brexit is to erode rights and regulation.
2. The UK has suggested the Irish border could be different from all other EU/UK borders. That is being ridiculous. How can that protect the Rep of Ireland from unfit non EU compliant goods?
3. The UK somehow thinks if it continues to contribute financially during the transition period it wouldn’t have to pay a lump sum. Paying to be part of the single market and paying for outstanding obligations are two quite different things.
None of this is serious negotiating about the three issues the EU considers fundamental. The ‘game’, is to play for time and hope economics and trade concerns win the day. They won’t.
Thanks to Shinty for posting the link, to the Forward Shop Dunoon, forgot to thank him or even her ha ha , a lot of stuff out there that’s getting lost in the fog generated by some people who have been attracted to this site,
Since things have gone a bit continental,
don`t know how much publicity our state media has given this cause i don`t watch/read any of it,
Anyhoo,
Scotsman Mark Beaumont will be finishing his `Cycle round the World in 80 days` late/mid tomorrow afternoon under the Arc de Triomphe (that`s in Paris, France:)
probably the greatest feat of endurance ever in human history,
almost averaging 230 miles each day for 80 days,
they talk about the untapped potential of the human brain,this feat of endurance shows the massively untapped potential of the human body,
just hope our media`s hatred of anything good or uplifting happening in Scotland or by a Scotsman does not mean that this great feat will be ignored.
Robert Graham @ 3.20pm
If you are going to comment – get your facts right. Vince Cable, on the Andrew Marr Show this morning did not claim to lead: “the third party at Westminster”, he claimed – correctly – to lead: “the third UK party at Westminster.”
The SNP is NOT a UK-wide party, therefore, Cable’s claim for the Lib-Dems stands up.
He’s still a tube, and they’re still a bunch of chancers, however.
Alex salmond on LBC right now. Presently he is covering Catalonia. He’s going to be on every week – salmond on Sunday 3-6pm
@Breeks says: 17 September, 2017 at 3:02 pm:
“Only while we as a sovereign country allow Westminster to wear the trousers.”
Well first of all you miss the target by at least a trillion miles.
Second of all, as we have a very nice lady as our FM and the de facto parliament of England has a very nasty lady as their Prime Minister that should read, “wear the nickers.”
But I digress. In the first place your statement that, “Scotland is a sovereign country”, is quite wrong.
Correctly The Scots are a sovereign people. Ergo and actions taken by our Scottish government must be by the request of a mandate from the sovereign people of Scotland and we do not, as yet, have such a majority mandate.
I have in fact posted to that effect in several different ways. To the extent I just gave up even attempting to debate with the numptie Rock who quite obviously cannot understand the English language that states, “The People of Scotland are legally sovereign”.
So, I’ll attempt yet another comparison to clarify that point.
Under English law the monarch of England, (after the English Kingdom’s, “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688), remains sovereign but must, since 1688 when the monarch of the three country Kingdom of England was forced, as part of the deal to be Queen of England first offered to only “Princess Mary of the House of Orange”, who initially refused it. Then the offer was extended to Princess Mary & to her Husband King Billy and the duo accepted the offer, on condition that they legally delegated the parliament of England to exercise their royal sovereignty.
However as the two kingdoms remained legally independent of each other until 1706/7 the English Parliament had no legal powers to change who was the monarch of Scotland and thus began the Jacobite uprisings to support the Scottish Crown.
Now remember that the English still claim it was a Jacobite Rebellion but the Scots could not rebel as the new English monarchy were not the monarchy of Scotland and the English were still slaughtering Jacobites in 1745 at Culloden – long after the Treaty of Union of 1706/7.
Then it transpired that as the English Kingdom had made itself a, “Constitutional Monarchy in 1688 and the Scottish kingdom remained independent until 1706/7 that the two legal systems in regard to sovereignty were not, and never can be, compatible.
So the Treaty of Union contains Article of Union Number 19. This Article of Union, (incidentally each Article of Union is, in itself a legally binding part of the treaty), states that both Kingdom’s legal systems shall remain sacrosanct in perpetuity – and was broken by Westminster before the ink was dry and hot wax seals had cooled.
So there you go – Scotland is NOT a sovereign country unless a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland mandate their parliament to be so – and that mandate has not yet been delivered to a Parliament elected as such by the legally sovereign people of Scotland.
Not only that but the people of Scotland does NOT mean only those born in Scotland or born of Scots parents in or outside Scotland.
It means people who are mainly resident in Scotland and who register to vote in Scottish elections.
Aye mc Sporran ,Split Hairs as they say, Please feel free to take a ticket and stick it up yer Arse ,
In my humble opinion.
@Socrates MacSporran 3.20
Of course, if you count the dead scroats, sorry, dead stoats in the rejects Pensioner’s club then they are the 3 largest group of weasles.
It’s the jolly old Westminster way.
I also prefer to think of Marr and Cable as a couple of oversized nappies. Both prone to leak pish and shite.
English Scots ???you can’t be fat and thin or tall and short these Incomers are English only a good example of your English Scot would be Alistair Darling ???
@ Breeks says: 17 September, 2017 at 3:02 pm: “Only while we as a sovereign country allow Westminster to wear the trousers.”
@ Robert Peffers says at 4:28 pm …. ”Well first of all you miss the target by at least a trillion miles…… But I digress. In the first place your statement that, “Scotland is a sovereign country”, is quite wrong.
Correctly the Scots are a sovereign people. Ergo and actions taken by our Scottish government must be by the request of a mandate from the sovereign people of Scotland and we do not, as yet, have such a majority mandate…..
So there you go – Scotland is NOT a sovereign country unless a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland mandate their parliament to be so – and that mandate has not yet been delivered to a Parliament elected as such by the legally sovereign people of Scotland. Not only that but the people of Scotland does NOT mean only those born in Scotland or born of Scots parents in or outside Scotland. It means people who are mainly resident in Scotland and who register to vote in Scottish elections.”
Thanks Robert for simplifying this …. like many others have tried to do …. once AGAIN. What’s not to get?
@Blair Paterson
IMO anyone living in Scotland who wants to see independence and is willing to vote YES can call themselves a Scot.
And those who do, trying to persuade others to also vote YES, is a good thing.
Next time we need to get more old people, those not born in Scotland, and EU citizens voting YES.
And we need more young people to get off their arses.
There are many born in Scotland who are willing to sell out the country and don’t deserve to be called Scots.
Stop the presses – we have a new headline on the BBC text service:-
Boris Johnson admits to being an arse in a statement to the BBC, he claims, “I’m all Behind”.
Boris Johnson says he is, “All Behind”, Theresa May, after setting out his own vision of, Britain after, “Brexit”.
But the SNP sits in the UK parliament.
@Socrates MacSporran 4.01
When splitting hairs you should at least try and be correct, Cable said UK party, from your quote, not UK wide party. All parties are UK parties that stand in the GE, so he is still incorrect, and Marr didn’t bother to correct him. From this logic it would follow that UKIP is the fourth UK party, even without any MP’s.
Just listening to Alex Salmond’s programme and it’s excellent. A number of people have been phoning in, for example from Catalonia. One guy (didn’t pick up where he’s staying right now) has just stated that he’s got his postal vote off already via London. Alex laughing and said ”what a clever way to get round this.”
……………………………..
In yesterdays’ National.
‘Parents’ fury as defence giant BAE delivers pupil workshop.’
What you won’t be able to see is that the parents weren’t notified about this and that a number have spoken out against it now, such as one mother said ”I believe there is a hidden and sinister agenda to these visits. They are trying to normalise the defence and arms industry.”
link to thenational.scot
” Sensational poll suggests SNP would make sweeping GAINS in an early Westminster election “
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
… and, a prediction from WoS Twitter …
link to mobile.twitter.com
One poll does not real gains make. However, good to see the SNP potentially doing well.
“So there you go – Scotland is NOT a sovereign country unless a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland mandate their parliament to be so – and that mandate has not yet been delivered to a Parliament elected as such by the legally sovereign people of Scotland”.
A majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland did however deliver a democratic mandate to remain in the EU.
Rather than defeating ourselves with constitutional sophistry, why don’t we actually challenge Westminster’s mandate to overrule our sovereign majority? (By the same token, why don’t we challenge the SNP’s mandate to overrule our sovereign majority?)
In Brexit we have the defining constitutional impasse and test case between Scottish Sovereignty and professed UK Parliamentary sovereignty. We have a democratic referendum result which is clear and unambiguous. Let us test the faux sovereignty of Westminster to destruction before the UN or European Court; not to seek a UDI or any such derivative for ourselves, but to seek a “UDR”, “You Don’t Rule” edict crafted specifically for Westminster.
With our Sovereignty thus recognised and properly ratified, the whole Brexit narrative and Independence referendum take on a completely different tone and much more substantial aspect. Scotland the country would exist in the eyes of the world, with nothing to hinder our navigation on the global high sea except a crappy and dysfunctional piece of political dogma designed to constrain our Nation to exit and be well rid of.
If that does not persuade you, then think of the alternative; Scotland squeezed out of Europe by a caretaker English government, overruling Scottish democracy, overruling Scottish sovereignty, and largely destroying Scotland’s economy and burgeoning Renewable Energy industry with no mandate even to govern. Do you honestly suppose a referendum held under such a cloud of ignominy would be recognised internationally as anything greater than a whimper? What kind of lame would-be country doesn’t even defend its own sovereignty from attack and subjugation?
Oh dear! I am splitting hairs and being wrong.
FFS, Cable, like all Yoons, does not recognise the SNP as a UK party, so whether he says: “UK” or “UK wide” – he still does not recognise the SNP as being bought-into the primacy of Westminster.
Here we are, arguing about a petty point, when we should be concentrating on the fact, Cable, like the rest of the Westminster insiders is an arse.
Ignore their arrogance, concentrate on their many failings and past failures.
NOTHING else matters but gaining our Independence. Don’t focus on small points let’s concentrate on the big issue – Independence.
They will lie and cheat, we need not try to twist what he said to suit our narrative – leave that to Cable, out cause is just and will win in the end.
Maybot’s EU divide & rule strategy exposed:
From: link to skwawkbox.org
Whatever way Vince wants to project it, it is pretty clear who is collecting which shares of Short Money and who the third party in Westminster actually is.
‘Scot Lord Dunlop appointed to head new industry panel.’
What you may not be able to see.
‘Scot Andrew Dunlop was given a peerage by David Cameron in 2015 to take on the job of Scotland Office minister, but left Government after the General Election in June.
Mundell said ”the UK Government’s new Scottish business taskforce will provide expert advice and guidance on how best to strengthen Scotland’s economy.
We know that Scotland’s performance lags behind the rest of the UK, and we need to close that gap. As we develop our ambitious industrial strategy and negotiate new trade deals around the world, this expert panel will provide insight from a range of Scottish business sectors.”
Mundell made the announcement before a visit to Paraguay and Argentina to promote Scottish business interests and build on cultural and educational links.’
link to thenational.scot
………………………………………..
Dunlop was a member of the policy unit in Margaret Thatcher’s government with responsibility for taxation and Scottish affairs when the community charge, known more commonly as the poll tax, was introduced initially in SCOTLAND only in 1989.
In 2012, Dunlop was appointed chief adviser to Prime Minister David Cameron. He played a key role in devising the British Government’s response to the Scottish Independence campaign, the outcome of which in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum result was for Scotland to remain as part of the Union.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Dunlop? Another one skittering through the job for the boys revolving door. One wonders what they are planning to get up to now and who else exactly is on the ‘expert panel’?
An encouraging story in the Herald saying support for indy has risen to 46% and support for the SNP is going down.
The electorate are no longer fooled by the: “support for indy is the same as supporting the SNP” rubbish spouted by unionists and some SNPers alike.
The SNP must deliver indy – or at least try their best to achieve indy (which they haven’t for 3 years) – or they face big losses at the next election, whenever that will be.
Scot Finlayson @ 3.44pm
Top billing for Reporting Scotland tomorrow evening?
Well done Mark (whatever your views) what an astonishing achievement. Sincerely hope you get the credit your deserve and a well earned rest!
Is there nothing we Scots cannot do? (apart from ticking the right box on a f***ing ballot paper)
The SNP must deliver indy… or they face big losses at the next election, whenever that will be.
Alas for you, laddie, just hoping something will happen won’t actually make it happen. Wishful thinking there, methinks.
Noo away and take yer brain farts elsewhere.
@Breeks
I totally agree. For years, the SNP correctly said: “the people of Scotland are sovereign”, and “we respect the democratic will of the people” so when Scotland voted Remain, that should have been the matter settled, at least for the SNP.
The SNP should have said they cannot agree to anything less than EU membership for Scotland, as they are under an obligation to respect the sovereign and democratic will of the people, and that democratically decided will was to Remain in the EU.
As the UK Govt refuse to recognise that, that triggered the mandate given to the SNP to deliver another indyref.
So, there should be no Brexit negotiations whatsoever for Scotland, as it should be:
EU membership or Indyref.
Some excellent articles in the Sunday Herald today.
‘China accused of being behind recent cyber attack on Scottish Parliament.’
link to heraldscotland.com
………………………………………………..
‘Angus Robertson set to remain SNP deputy despite losing seat.’
link to heraldscotland.com
………………………………………………
Wha’s like us?
‘Professor Stephen Salter: Meet the Scot who’s invented a way to calm killer hurricanes.’
What you won’t see:
‘The plan which became known as the Salter Sink was first presented in 2007 at a US Homeland Security meeting on storm suppression after after Hurricane Katrina in 2005 – which caused massive destruction in New Orleans – before it was developed by a tech company backed by billionaire Microsoft founder Bill Gates.
Salter will unveil his new plan for spray ships on Wednesday at the Artic Science Conference 2017 in Oban, the town which is home to the sprawling European Marine Science Park.
…………………..Salter calculates that he would need around 150 spray vessels to ”knock two or three degrees off the temperature that was driving Hurricane Irma.”… ”They’d cost about £3 million each.”
Lots more to this article of course but I’m just thinking that these ships could be built in Scotland. Forget about Mundell and Dunlop et al.
link to heraldscotland.com
Ach Jings, the SNP is NOT a UK party for Electoral Commission purposes, PPB, or broadcasting purposes, as it does NOT have candidates outside Scotland. It’s why it gets less representation come UK General Election time.
@ Petra – that’s Stephen Salter, inventor of the bobbing duck wave power generator. It was kyboshed by the Westminster Government in the 80s. They allowed the Nuclear industry to alter the report into wave power by inserting the word “not” here and there.
This wiki entry wrongly states that it was the price of oil which was at fault before revealing the true culprit:
link to en.wikipedia.org
In today’s Sunday Times, Bowditch quotes former Labour adviser McLaren’s study that Scotland, Wales & NI have apparently all gone backwards under devolution, unlike England. Of course, might be something to do with England actually having a sovereign independent government with access to all the levers of power.
Or, the stats might just be junk.
Why Westminster is fighting tooth and claw to keep Scotland in bondage:
link to imgur.com
@ yesindyref2 6.16
Maybe a case for standing a candidate for the Berwick on Tweed constituency?
I know the SNP don’t normally stand in England but it might be an exception. It would certainly have the Unionariat frothing at the gills.
@proud cybernat
And England’s trade deficit will get much larger post indy.
Think of all that energy it will have to import..
@Petra
Thanks for the link, interesting article. I didn’t bother with it from the headline, but the spray ships, if it can be proven, seems to a possibility – and he’s talking to Fergusons. With say a crew of 6, that would be a total of 900 worldwide – less than the crew of the QE carrier 🙂
Ah, reading around it seems these would be unmanned, and around 300 tonnes. For comparison, the Scottish Government FPV Minna is 780 tonnes, a “standard” tug is 50 tonnes.
@frogesque
There was talk about it Wings, and I seem to remember even the SNP had considered it. I think there are pros and cons when it comes to election coverage though, and perhaps too the SNP think it would be “cheeky” standing in English constituencies 🙂
Though they’d probably have got a lot of votes there, pre-Corbyn at any rate.
Proud Cybernat says:
A surplus! I would wager that is an underestimate and doesn’t reflect all goods leaving England which began their journey in Scotland.
Also, if you consider an iScotland situation, I would also expect a BIG surplus in exports to rUK. Oil, gas, and electricity must mean massive export value to rUK. Perhaps this is the biggest reason for our bondage.
@me & @Proud Cybernat
…. and, what about all that oil loaded straight onto ships from platforms then moved directly abroad?
Those represent HUGE exports.
yesindyref2 says
So? The English parties stand in Scotland but not Northern Ireland. 😉
@Ribert Peffers
Plainly we see this issue from different perspectives.
Breeks….I see you’re getting brickbats for having the temerity to question the fact that our ‘sovereignty’ is being heavily shat upon to such an extent that we should actually attempt to exercise it and tell merrie England and its dominions to fuck right off.
This ‘majority’ that the pedants keep insisting..is that the artificial fabricated con of another referendum on our own Independence?…like the last fixed one with all the bogus postal votes and absent non Scottish resident holiday home owners?
Is that the one that Alex ‘three hours of ego tripping radio fun coming at you’ Salmond who dropped our very existence into a roulette wheel by allowing Cameron to set us up in the convoluted trap we now find ourselves in?
Prior to the Edinburgh Agreement, the existing three GE results and the Scottish Parliament results, and of course the Brexit result, were constitutionally enough for us to state categorically to the world that the ‘majority’ i.e elected representatives of our Representative democracy were fully in favour of Independence and protecting our ‘sovereign ‘ laws which have been over ruled century by century by English law masquerading as ‘uk’.
Our pathetic legal system and managerial SNP have bent over and allowed this situation to develop. The ‘UK’ Supreme court has the last say over our civil law and over our devolved parliament as the last few months have shown. Don’t forget it came into existence legally in 2009, while AS was complaining about it…but did nothing.
So are we to remain ‘the do nothings’ whining about Referendums when all the time the illegal Tory regime is passing English laws and anti-democratic legislation designed to further destroy our democracy and our rights that we voted,and gave our parliament, the mandate to keep our dual EU citizenship? And …Said English tory regime, using their minority of Representatives to bulldoze us, and as guessed,is plotting to pull the plug and walk away paying nothing to the EU and subjugating Scotland forever?
We have been over ruled and undermined in our nationhood the last three centuries. But only since a properly constituted full adult franchise was allowed, by the Reform Act of 1918 have we , the people of Scotland, been able to vote for who actually rules us. We must appeal to the UN as suggested by Prof. Alf Baird and Craig Murray as we soon will have nothing left to argue for.
“Also, if you consider an iScotland situation, I would also expect a BIG surplus in exports to rUK. Oil, gas, and electricity must mean massive export value to rUK. Perhaps this is the biggest reason for our bondage.”
Yes this is THE reason. Neoliberal economics tells us that money is scarce whilst energy is an externality. It’s incredible how many yoons raise their eyebrows when you talk about the energy potential of scotland.
Without energy the economy grinds to a halt. Without cheap accessible energy their is no growth.
Oi Ronnie ya cheeky git!
We arrived *early* this time.
And aye, we over at English Scots do intend to do an Observer Mission.
The only thing to decide is if we do a group one, we have to get accredited as a neutral group etc. which might be tricky given the time…
If we go as individuals there’s a higher emphasis on being qualified to do it ie. we’re really talking about former MPs, professional pollsters etc.
We’ll also need to raise some cash, at least a couple of grand…unsure at this time if this is feasible.
Think we can do it?
Aye,
It’s our weather that still defines us.
Our land and sea-scape, windmills in the face of the wind.
Our ancient rock, shearing upwards, huge lochs in the clouds with dams and pylons.
Our compensation is free energy.
@ ScottieDog at 7:14pm … ”Think of all of that energy it will have to import.”
Aye oors ScottieDog!
……………………………..
@ Capella at 6:22pm …. “Salter’s bobbing duck.”
Thanks for that Capella. Very interesting. I’d read a similar article on Prof Salter before and just wonder what kind of Scotland we’d be living in now if we’d been independent years ago. We have the natural resources (riches) and assets, in particular human, to have made this country a world leader. Instead Scotland and Scots like Salter have been stymied at every turn by a BritNat establishment that lies through it’s teeth, suppresses information and doctors figures to suit their hellish agenda. If only everyone in Scotland knew what we know (we’d be Independent in a heart beat) and that’s probably very little at all in the scheme of things.
………………………………….
Just reading through the SNP Baad posts on here and wondering what these people are going to talk about when Nicola Sturgeon announces an Indyref2 to give ALL sovereign Scots, including the 62% (of the 66% of the Scottish electorate who actually bothered to vote) who voted to remain in the EU, the opportunity to make a decision as to whether to remain in the Brexiting Union or not.
Will they all disappear into the ether?
@Math
If you can produce a report at the end of it, it may well have value to the Indy movement, hence a crowdfunder with useful product at the end of it, for real value!
@Proud Cybernat –
Totally excellent to meet you at last, and all the more enjoyable for being a complete surprise. I hope it wasn’t too alarming for you to see the ‘usual suspects’ up close in their natural habitat i.e. the pub.
And where’s wur new pal, George? Aye, you! Thought you promised to stop lurking and check-in?
Anyway, soo-perb talking to ye’s both, and a special shout for Craig Murray for just being a general all-round decent spud.
@scottieDog
I need to update this sometime, but
“2015 total: Exports to rUK £45.884 bn, Imports from rUK £51.255 bn. (-£5.371 bn)“.
link to yesindyref2.wordpress.com
If the UK “loses” Scotland, and if for some stupid reason there was no trade between Scotland and the rUK, the rUK balance of trade which is already negative globally, becomes even worse to the tune of £5 billion a year.
Trade deficits are a part of currency strength and credit rating. The rUK could slip on both counts.
However, I’m not sure if energy is a part of these figures. As we know, the statistics even if estimates are not neccessariky complete in terms of inter-region trading.
YES Dalbeattie held an excellent event last night. It was well attended by SNP MSPs, SNP Councillors and Yes supporters throughout Dumfries and Galloway. Great music and speakers.
One of the guest speakers was the excellent Wee Ginger Dug. In a very informative and laugh out loud talk his main message was, do not use the term Unionist or Yoons, refer to them as British Nationalists which allows a direct comparison with Scottish Nationalists.
He said everyone is a Nationalist so everyone in this country has a choice, be a British Nationalist or be a Scottish Nationalist.
@ Ian Brotherhood
Couldn’t get there for health reasons 🙁 Was Craig Murray in the pub?
The interesting element in the Catalan case is that something is being done which the Spanish government considers illegal. In Scotland there is a tendency to become enmeshed in legal proprieties; what I believe is called the ‘Scotch lawyer’ mentality. The day Scotland’s pro-independence leaders loosen up and boldly throw the conventions to the wind Westminster will have something to fear, will have met its match and been shown that we truly mean business.
We know Westminster bends and waves the rules at will. Time we viewed those ‘rules’ in the same light.
A Nation with Ambition- yes we can:
‘As we reflect on the progress of the last decade and look ahead to the challenges and opportunities of the future, our purpose is clear – we want Scotland to be the best place in the world to bring up children, the best place to grow up and be educated, the best place to live, work, visit, invest and do business, the best place to be cared for in times of sickness, need or vulnerability and the best place to grow old.
This programme sets out our next steps in creating the better future we all want for our nation’
link to gov.scot.
This progressive work- an embedded advice worker in GP practices had a positive impact on the financial status of economically vulnerable citizens;
‘These figures demonstrate the specific impact of the reforms on already economically vulnerable communities. Ultimately, Scotland’s poorest communities are expected to be most significantly impacted by the legislative changes and inherent financial reductions. Future reforms are predicted to adopt a similar pattern’
link to gcph.co.uk
Scotland is a nation with ambition- we are not a regional doormat nor a minor entity in the northern hemisphere-and our government and its representatives should reflect that.Those who prefer to support a political ideology that celebrates the presence of food banks (and Dickensian values),obscures Scotland’s true wealth and future potential, ignores Scotland’s right to remain in Europe,do not speak for Scotland.
Words and deeds.
I was really impressed by Sturgeon’s use of the word “reset” about Indy ref 2, because the word has different meanings, and perhaps depends on your point of view. With her legal background I’m sure Sturgeon used it wisely and very cleverly:
What I think we’ve seen this summer is a form of reset of the support for Indy which I think was dropping, but is now again rising. And the reason for this? I think it’s precisely because the SNP and the SG haven’t been going on about it.
But it still needs the likes of Breeks, Lochside and others, to question the SNP about their motives, as they represent a part of the Indy movement which is naturally suspicious, and without that natural suspicion, we’d all be fools.
@Ottomanboi – indeed, the law is not set in stone – it is what politicians make it & the people make the politicians – in a democracy anyway.
As was pointed out on one of Nana’s links (can’t remember which – you will need to read to find out) even constitutions are imperfect & break down – Spain & France have had several versions so nothing is set in stone.
It could even be argued that since the UK has no formal written constitution – it seems to evolve, change, adapt as the establishment desires – then it can be changed, perhaps even dissolved, through practice rather than strict legislation when it is not fit for purpose.
Another interesting point in the Sunday Times poll if it hasn’t been mentioned already, is that pro-EU support is up to 65% now.
We need to work hard, we have had some good polls in the last 2 weeks. We can get the momentum going our way.
@ Ottomanboi
Aye, but the First Minister IS a lawyer, so it’s not surprising.
A bit of swagger and bait would be great, though. Haha, imagine it.
The [lanets and stars are aligning:
From: link to stv.tv