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Facing the wrong way

Posted on January 07, 2019 by

Scottish Labour mounted another of their infamous stunt “protests” today, as always dutifully assisted and advertised by the Scottish media.

STV reported it as an event organised by a small rail union – not the RMT or ASLEF, but the little-known Transport Salaried Staff Association – which would feature “other campaigners”, but in fact it was a Scottish Labour shindig from top to bottom, with no union branding visible anywhere and Scottish Labour on all the placards.

Well, we say “all”.

The party managed to scare up just barely a dozen people to stand outside a damp Glasgow Central on a Monday morning with three Scottish Labour ad boards, almost outnumbered by an eager press pack keen to snap them nice and close in to make proceedings look a bit more dramatic, straight out of the Jim Murphy playbook.

(The timing was a tad fortunate, coming just hours after services into Central had been cancelled because some poor sod had been hit by a train in Renfrewshire, generating more statistical disruption that Labour can castigate ScotRail and the SNP for.)

We wondered aloud on Twitter whether the tiny group had actually bothered doing any protesting or leafleting at all, or if they’d just turned up briefly for the photo opportunity and then scuttled off, and an alert reader was on the spot to answer.

Richard Leonard and his micro-mob had in fact been standing with their backs to commuters the whole time, as far from the station entrance as it was possible to get without being run over, earnestly relaying their real concerns to passing cars and the window of the Sainsbury’s Local across the road while rail passengers couldn’t even see their placards as they hurried to catch their trains.

If there’s a better visual metaphor for Labour’s relationship with the Scottish electorate this year, we’d love to see it.

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    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 07 01 19 13:56

      Facing the wrong way | speymouth

    2. 10 01 19 21:49

      Making The Headlines | An Independent Scotsman

    535 to “Facing the wrong way”

    1. Ryan McAllister says:

      Hilarious metaphor for Labour.

    2. Alastair Watson says:

      Fantastic, they really are desperate

    3. Dr Jim says:

      No this is all wrong, there were many many people from all walks of life

      Walking past

    4. Truth says:

      Ha ha. Facing the taxi rank where Iain Gray made his getaway from Subway.

      It’s almost poetic.

    5. DerekM says:

      I have been laughing my head off all morning at this all he needs is an irn bru crate and he is sorted wahahaha.

    6. dunks says:

      Scottish Labour, turning their backs on the electorate. Whoda thocht!!

    7. Capella says:

      This is the BBC website’s top story this morning. Pathetic.

    8. Hamish100 says:

      Of course this is to deflect from their acceptance of Brexit.

    9. Capella says:

      Ha ha ha – it WAS the BBC website’s top story this morning. It has now been disappeared, completely. I just checked. Deary me.

    10. Lollysmum says:

      Oh dear, Labour is such an embarrassment. No wonder voters are deserting them in droves. Jolly good guys keep it up you are the greatest recruiting sergeants the YES movement has ??

    11. Proud Cybernat says:

      So – we’ve had British Labour in Scotland in cahoots with Trade Unions stirring up shit with:

      Glasgow City Council

      They’ll be asking for a General Strike in Scotland before long and for no other reason than to stick it to the Bad, Bad, Baaaad Essenpee. Stirring up shit of their making and blaming others for it. Just how stupid do these half-wits think the Scottish public is? Not nearly as daft as they are, for sure.

    12. Micromob. I love that term. Labour has become No more than a passing joke. STV is worse. They just keep pouring on sauce With no real substance. It`s actually painful to watch. My sides are aching with laughter. Any idea of Union member numbers actually still Labour members. People are sick of these red Tories. SLAB. must honestly think we are dumb Jocks. But they should realize Everybody Grannies granda`s Wains EVERYBODY from all walks of life SEE RIGHT THROUGH SLAB. They are finish. in Scotland. They are truly no more than RED TORIES

    13. johnj says:

      A woman from this mob was interviewed this morning on radio Scotland. She did her best to deflect criticism from railtrack, who have been largely to blame for recent delays to infrastructure improvements, and lump it all on to Abellio and the Scottish Government.
      It was pretty obvious what the agenda was.

    14. Giving Goose says:

      Richard Leonard is a British Nationalist, in the same camp as Tommy Robinson, Teresa May & Nigel Farage.

      If there are genuinely good, well intentioned Labour members or supporters reading this, please ask yourself a simple question.

      Who gains from Richard Leonard’s actions?
      Answer – The Tories.
      Think about it!

    15. starlaw says:

      Labour showing their two faces again Oppose anything remotely linked to SNP but support the Tory handling of all things eg. the railways. My Mum and Dad brought me up to support Labour in the fight against the Tories they will be spinning in their graves at the sorry state of the Party they supported.

    16. Iain says:

      There was a report on this after eight o’ clock on ‘Good Morning Scotland’. The spokeswoman for TSSA was Liz Warren Carney who told us that their petition had 775 signatures “already”. She advocated the revival of a single UK-wide “national” rail service, removing the “nationalistic” Scottish national service.

      The interviewer had ventured to suggest that there was a political aspect to the demonstration, but this latter point was not seized on as offering evidence.

    17. Morgatron says:

      Not only there top story online, but gave 10 mins uninterrupted air time on GMS to spout lies and talk general pish and SNP bad. I really hate the bare faced liars the Red tories are. No question was put to Ms Double Barrel name this morning of why labour never reversed Majors decision and re nationalise it under Blair and Brown and the reserved nature of the railways. BBC as usual,BBC bastards

    18. Auld Rock says:

      Oh, so pathetic especially given that a weekend poll put Labour a full 6% points behind this shambolic Tory Party, yet they still want a GE. My own belief is that Labour will deliberately kid-on to tame ‘Momentum Voters’ that they are with them when in fact they are playing out time so that they can pile all the blame for the coming chaos after 29th March on the Tories. What they are doing is not doing what they were elected to do and that is to be a ‘Responsible Opposition’.

      Quick shift, having been unable to see ‘I, Daniel Blake’ when it came out, I found it to be one of the most chilling films ever produced and by the BBC to boot. Yet on Marr’s Sunday Brit Nat propaganda hour the blessed Theresa seemed quite proud that she had not taken the time to see the devastation her Government was guilty of.

    19. Merkin Scot says:

      “Just listening to the Beeb R4 doing an article/advert about Whisky.
      Irish Whiskey!
      Our paid for BBC trying to advertise why Scotch Whisky is not as good as Irish.
      They really hate us, don’t they.”
      Says it all, really.

    20. Ken500 says:

      Unionist Party paid PR stunt.

      Same as May useless NHS PR stunt. It is not extra money. It is just stopping the Tory/unionists cuts killing off people. Cruel and disgusting beyond belief. Giving people false hope.

      They are now copying the SNP policies already implemented.

    21. Artyhetty says:

      Yep, UK Labour branch in Scotland, going the wrong way. They can’t even look people in the face because they know it’s their party who have perpetuated this situation and, they have done it deliberately. Utter disgrace, the people are collateral to them!

      One direction Labour, taking everyone down with them. No thanks UK Labour, with your pretendy party in Scotland!

      Makes you wonder who this kind of political stunt is aimed at, because clearly few in Scotland would give Labour the time of day since they got into bed with the Tories in 2014.

      I was just re-reading an article here on WOS that I had printed out in 2015, about Scottish Water. ‘Thicker than Water’. Just reading that tells us all we need to know about ‘Scottish Labour’. The party of privatisation.

    22. Doug_Bryce says:

      The really concerning thing is that Good Morning Scotland had an interview with one of this mob this morning. Pre-meditated BBC media collusion to create this evenings news headlines…

    23. Stravaiger says:

      I heard this pish on the radio this morning. How much airtime was given over to this compared to, say, the AUOB march in Edinburgh where many tens of thousands turned up for something genuinely important?

      Fair and impartial BBC? Aye, right!

    24. jfngw says:

      I saw the bottom picture on twitter, at the time I thought why has someone posted a picture of the queue at a bus stop, didn’t twig that was actually the protest group.

    25. Bob Mack says:

      What can you say?

      I hear Richard Leonard wanted to buy a ticket to go on an actual train,but when the machine asked him to punch in his destination ,he decided to abstain.

      Did we really elect these idiots for nearly 4 decades?

    26. Graham Ballantyne says:

      I am sick and tired of this bunch of desperate chancers& their allies in the unionist media. Utterly dishonest from top to bottom.

    27. Its pure comedy gold from Labour, but then did we really expect anything else from them given their track record

    28. robertknight says:


      ‘Nuff said.

    29. Greannach says:

      Sometimes I get to the point where I’m almost sorry for Labour, having gone in such a short space of time from being overlords of their Scottish fiefdom to being a minimob of shouty comics. Almost sorry. Then I remember Johann Lamont, Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown, Douglas Alexander, Margaret Curran and the rest of the Tory Lite crew and their hand-in-glove work with their Conservative colleagues. That stops any sympathy in its tracks.

    30. chicmac says:

      The Laddie doth protest too much, methinks.

      With such a tiny number taking part one wonders if the usual slab coterie, Glesca coonslirs etc. were told to stay away for some obscure reason.

    31. Muscleguy says:

      And of course ignoring the fact the Scottish govt has asked CalMac Group to formulate a public sector bid for the railway for when the franchise is up. IOW the Scottish Govt* is doing what SLAB want the sensible, grown up, legal way.

      But SLAB don’t want anyone to know about that. Pity I wasn’t there as I would have put them right on the matter.

      I thought Doh! when I heard the news, CalMac is the ideal body to do this, being publicly owned and in the transport business anyway. Just imagine it, no excuse for trains which don’t meet ferries and vice versa.

      Now post Indy we can do the same with buses, taking them in house again. Change subsidies for simple running costs without the need to pay dividends to shareholders. The owners of Stagecoach can make their money running buses elsewhere. I doubt they will starve.

      *I don’t see why I have to ape the MSM and call them the SNP Govt.

    32. Ian McCubbin says:

      You have just made my day with this as it out flanks Jim Murphy for bungle nuts events.

      A total Trickie Dickie fiasco.
      LOL and gives what’s left of Labour no chance for anything in Scotland.

    33. shug says:

      This will be a nice change to the BBC output. Call Kaye will need to amend the format:

      Monday – Nurses and doctors are shite
      Tuesday – Teachers and education are shite
      Wed – Police are shite – this changed recently after a producer doubtless got pulled over by the cops 3 times in a day as a warning – this spot could not be taken by Scotrail is shite
      Thursday – don’t broadcast first ministers questions more than one and only if the Labour and Tory ministers have managed to read their question better than a 6 year old
      Friday – Scotland is shite.

      MSM in Scotland – what a joke

    34. Clootie says:

      The Scottish Media…where would Labour be without them.
      The Unionist Trade Unionist ( all six of the) are no better.

    35. galamcennalath says:

      These staged photo opportunities with few, if any, non activists joining in, then fake news coverage by a complient media is basically just astroturfing. No substance, no genuine public involvement.

      All ‘make believe’. And fewer Scots will believe it.

      The net effect might be negative. Firstly a lot of people must witness it. And secondly a lot more get the full picture via WoS and social media. It looks bad. It’s all been captured and can be cast in again later. It happens often, so can be presented as a pattern of deceit.

      More and more this seems to be all Labour can muster.

      In a perfect world, Labour is Scotland would just stand aside. Their contribution to Scottish political life, or even their own BritNat cause, is evaporating.

      They will screw up over Brexit and hopefully that will be a final nail.

    36. chicmac says:

      new noun suggestion


    37. Mike says:

      Still kind of sickening to see the level of media attention a gormless non entity like Leonard is able to generate from a media circus only too willing to misrepresent misreport malign and generally lie their arses off over anything and everything in Scotland.
      We should concentrate more effort on exposing the sickness of the media in the UK than the actually organised crime syndicates posing as political parties in the UK as a whole because without the media more people would realise that we are dealing with organised crime and not politics.

    38. Martin says:

      Heard the interview with one on GMS today. Initially started ok but then became “there’s nothing abellio can do to fix this and the SNP are complicit” revealing herself as a Labour shill

    39. Cubby says:

      Nice picture of me at Central station. Pity the trampoline is out of shot. LOL

      British Labour in Scotland what a shower of halfwits.

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Nothing on Reporting Scotland just now about the “protest”.

    41. wull2 says:

      The Scottish people should say that there will be NO strikes in Scotland till Brexit is over in March, We will not be used as a political tool in Brexit.

    42. Cubby says:

      Scotland must be the only country whose media is fully controlled by another country and that media tells Scots that Scotland and Scots are crap. Every aspect of Scottish society is rubbished by the media in Scotland with the exception of the media itself.

      The media in Scotland is beyond criticism by the media in Scotland. Why – because the media in Scotland only rubbishes anything that is Scottish and the media in Scotland is anything but Scottish.

    43. Daisy Walker says:

      o/t Lollysmum…. your back.

      Superb. Hope the leg is well heeled (pun intended).


    44. Marie Clark says:

      Oh dear. poor old Tricky Dickie. What an absolute waste of time and space. Slab used to get away with these sort of tricks with the help of the MSM and the Beeb. Fortunately the internet stops them getting away with all this pish. Just a pity more folk don’t pay a lot of attention.

      Lollysmum @ 12.47, good to see you posting again. How are you, hope the leg is mending well.

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      BLiS___d aren’t a political party, they’re window dressing to make British nationalism appear palatable to non-Tories. That last photo deserves to be in one of Scotland’s art galleries, IMHO. Certainly documented in the National Library of Scotland.

    46. Al Dossary says:

      Maybe a little out with the numbers (give or take 1 or 2 lol) – but I count 11 Labour activists and 8 press. They really have no shame.

      I can just imagine what was going through the photographers heads at having been called in to photograph these 11 numpties on a cold January morning.

    47. mogabee says:

      I’d dearly love to see the back of Labour too.

      And not just in a picture!

      Wonder what the actual percentage of folk in Scotland who travel by train? Anyone ken?

    48. Dr Jim says:

      @cubby 1.49pm

      I remember speaking to an American family on holiday in Edinburgh who came with us on the march because they were interested in the goings on and they were shocked and amazed that Scotland wasn’t *allowed* its own broadcasting when as they saw it every country in the world runs their own broadcasting even individual states in America control their own airwaves and who broadcasts on them

      Another one of for that reason alone Scotland should be Independent because for why and what only reason would one country withhold the legal *power* to broadcast over another country, and why is it named as a *power* at all unless that means the UK considers it uses it as a power

      Like many *powers* the UK has that Scotland contibutes funds for but has no say in how those *powers* are used

      In the EU every country has a say on how their money is spent and if they don’t approve they have the right of veto

      In Scotland we don’t even have the right of speech on our own tellys…..which I should point out we invented in the first place

    49. The storm is gathering, folks.
      The sight of this pathetic little man and his dogged handful of ‘activists’ huddled together for warmth on a dreich wet Monday morning outside a railway station confirms what we all now know: Scotland has had enough of these thick sad wee Brit Nat tub thumpers.
      We Scots are reasserting our right as a nation this year.
      If this is the calibre of the UK Collusionists, then the day is already won.
      Free at last, Free at last, Lord almighty, Free at last.
      Leonard was a Union pen pusher for decades, now he is the Red Tories’ last stand Up Here.
      How any young Scot can be fooled by this Red Tory sham Branch Office eludes me.
      And of course the Dead Tree Scroll Snappers and the Unionist Propaganda Broadcasting Corps duly oblige by putting the Brit Natz Ministry of Truth spin on this embarrassing little ‘protest’.
      Now we know that we have ’em licked.

    50. wull2 says:

      O/T. I have just had a thought, only people with a blue badge for that area should get a postal vote, all others will have to go to the poll station to cast their vote.

    51. winifred mccartney says:

      I cannot fail to see how pathetic both Labour and the BBC are to the people of Scotland. They are each trying to keep the other afloat – utterly shameful. Labour will use anybody and anything for their own selfish interests.

    52. Black Joan says:

      Instead of wasting their own and everyone else’s time on these staged worthless photo opportunities, the Labstainers and the Britnat media could usefully do some research into the statistics behind the delays “due to a person being hit by a train”.

      It’s my impression that there are more and more of these horribly sad events in present-day I-Daniel-Blake-Land. How many (UK-wide) are attributable to the utter despair and wretchedness arising from Westminster’s policies? What is the (surely long-term) effect on the train drivers, the emergency services, the police, the railway staff and the travellers who witness the horror? How many homeless and/or sanctioned people are deciding that this is a way to end state-sponsored pain?

      It’s an absolute tragedy that these deaths occur at all, let alone so frequently, but Labour and the Yoon media prefer to focus on punctuality in Scotland because they think arriving a few minutes late is a greater scandal and another excuse for yelling SNPBAD.

    53. Dr Jim says:

      One of my areas of expertise as some will know is human behavioural characteristics and over recent months the attitude, tone, and strength of the First Minsters demeanour has become increasingly powerful and confident so much so that with force of will alone she has been dominating every interview in which she appears, there are no pauses in her sentences but for where she chooses to pause for effect, if *journalists* attempt to interrupt her the consensual softness has all but vanished and replaced with purposeful and positive earnestness while still remaining polite but non deflectable or diverted from her point

      This is an FM on a mission and is confident on her brief, she knows exactly what she’s doing and we’re in for some great political viewing, coming to a telly near you SOON

    54. Tackety Beets says:

      This is the true value of Wings & Rev

      Totally showing the stupid side of SLab.

      In his best Doric my granda would describe Dick head of Labour “An affa gype” then he realised its too week and say “Heez a muckle feel goat”

      Maybe we need to thank Meester Leonard for his best attempts to gie us aa a gweed laugh, as by goodness , we need it.

    55. Dan Huil says:

      British nationalist Labour getting desperate – again. Along with the anti-Scottish britnat media.

      # Who do you think you are kiddin’, Mr Leonard #

    56. Brian Cahill says:

      Another demonstration of Labour’s ineptness, Labour are surely unelectable in Scotland.

    57. Pete says:

      Dr Jim
      She’s maybe on a mission but it seems to be concentrated on pushing for a UK People’s Vote.
      Thought she was for an independence vote?

    58. velofello says:

      The D’Hondt voting fiasco acts as an incentive to be an activist in the depleted ranks of Slab and the Tories. Good prospect of being hoisted into Holyrood as a list MSP on £65K, on the back of a few thousand votes. So it’s no hardship to turn out on farcical protests with Tricky Dicky Leonard and smooch to win candidate List selection.

    59. Bobp says:

      Lying tory lite liebor in Scotland blaming the baad snp for everything. Its a bit akin to be told to sit up straight by the hunchback of notre dame.

    60. Juteman says:

      The Sainsbury sign says it all.
      ‘Open every day’, for quotes.
      British media in Scotland duly due their part.

    61. Socrates MacSporran says:

      With the Billy Connolly tribute programmes over the Christmas and New Year Holidays, I am starting to think of Small Dick Leonard as the Pastor Jack Glass of the 21st century.

      Standing outside places protesting, backed-up by his small and dwindling band of zealot followers. In effect, farting against thunder.

    62. Republicofscotland says:

      Those handful of dolts look like they’re waiting on a taxi. Taxi for Leonard!

    63. Republicofscotland says:

      “Juteman says:
      7 January, 2019 at 2:54 pm
      The Sainsbury sign says it all.
      ‘Open every day’, for quotes.
      British media in Scotland duly due their part.”


      The Sainsbury’s down my way quitely removed the Saltire flag from their front door signage last year.

    64. galamcennalath says:

      CameronB Brodie says:

      BLiS___d aren’t a political party, they’re window dressing to make British nationalism appear palatable to non-Tories.

      Truth is, that opinion could be applied to Labour from Ramsey Macdonald up to Corbyn. It gives the illusion of a multi party system but always simply behaves like an Establishment alternative. When did Labour gain power and seriously shake the tree? House of Lords, FPTP, privilege and honours, WMDs, etc etc, never touched.

      Tories/Labour two cheeks on the same BritNat erse.

    65. Terence Callachan says:

      ALL IN IT TOGETHER right enough
      But in a scary way

      Labour and the newspapers arrange the photo shot
      The newspapers provide BBC with photos
      BBC put the story and photos on their website news
      Wingsoverscotland show them up as lying deceptive scoundrels

      Once busted
      BBC take their fake set up of a story off their website as if it never happened
      British propaganda in full flow
      It’s disgusting

    66. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This is BRILLIANT! (From WOS Twitter.)

    67. mr thms says:

      Thanks for posting this article.

      I will pass it on to family and friends to share

    68. Val Wells says:

      Why is Richard wearing a warehouse coat? Channelling Ronnie Barker?

    69. robertknight says:



    70. Cubby says:

      Dr Jim@2.06pm

      “In Scotland we don’t even have the right of speech on our tellys …….which I should point out we invented in the first place.”

      Good point. I’ll remember that one. It’s often forgotten that British Labour had promised to devolve broadcasting in the 1999 dev bill but pulled it at the last minute. Britnats – always treacherous liars. 20 years on and broadcasting still not devolved!

      I also was on the Edinburgh march and the Glasgow (the best of 2018) and Bannockburn marches. I walked alongside the lady dressed as T. may with the large papermache head on and dancing to dancing queen song saying don’t dance with the devil. Probably not good enough for Proud Cybernat to take me off his list.

    71. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan. @3.18pm

      British Labour certainly are disgusting. Tell you what is also disgusting – you posting a lot of lies.

      1. Where and when did I threaten you Terry old boy. I have challenged you on lots of occasions to say when and where.

      2. Making up jackanory stories that I am a labour activist. More lies from Terry old boy.

      3. Unable to back up your claim that there are 800k English living in Scotland. More lies from Terry old boy.

      4. All for free speech when it means you can lie your head off. Not so keen on free speech when your lies are challenged.

    72. Stravaiger says:

      @Pete 2:30pm

      I’m sure you’re a lovely bloke but you’d make a crap strategist.(smiley face thingy)

    73. Cubby says:

      BDTT@3.23 pm

      I wonder where the golf sale is? LOL

    74. Socrates MacSporran says:

      BACK in the 1960s, the then Dr Beeching decided the Nith Valley Line – between Dumfries and Kilmarnock would suffer station closures. They did away with every station between the two main towns, with the exception of Kirkconnel, the closest station to the mid-way point.

      Then, when Strathclyde PTE was on the go, Auchinleck and New Cumnock stations were re-opened, this was in the 1980s.

      In 1995, living in New Cumnock, I got a job in Paisley and the easiest way to travel was by the train, the costs made bearable by being eligible for an SPT All-Zones zone card. I travelled daily for ten years; at first, I was the only regular passenger getting off and on at New Cumnock, but, by the early 2000s, when I stopped travelling, there were maybe ten regulars.

      It didn’t help that, if you missed the 5.30pm Carlisle train out of Glasgow Central, you had to wait until 10.03 for the next one.

      But, after the SNP Government came in in 2007, more trains were added, and this has continued to today. At the turn of the century we had seven trains per day in each direction – the earliest at 7.30am, the last one back from Glasgow at 10.03pm. Today, there are 10 trains per day up to Glasgow, the first at 5.55am, the last at 22.31pm and 13 trains per day down from Glasgow, the first at 7.09am the last at 23.13pm (except on Saturdays, when for some inexplicable reason, the last train leaves Central at 22.13pm.

      The trains are comfortable, quiet, they generally run on-time and the on-train staff are all great. Some of the units even have power points, so a lap top can be used without draining the batteries.

      When Beeching decimated the line, some bright spark decided, they only needed a single track between Kilmarnock and Barrhead, with one passing loop, between Lugton and Barrhead. But, they put in another loop, at Stewarton Station, which allowed for more trains to be run, with a consequent upgrade to the service.

      Of course, Scotrail and the Scottish Rail Alliance are not perfect. For sure, the public would like a still-better service. But, for my point of view, as a former daily commuter and still occasional user, I think the SNP Government has worked wonders on the Scottish rail system, and, if they had full control, they could do even better. So the British Labour Party’s Scottish branch office is simply being hypocritical with all their shouting.

      I was in Glasgow on Saturday, but, because of the timing I had to take the Stagecoach buses up to the city – three different buses, two hours, 45 minutes start to finish, as against one hour 5 minutes by train. Still, I got the train back and, using my bus pass, I got a discount, which meant it only cost me £4.50 for the very fast (one hour 7 minutes) and comfortable return journey.

      Scotrail and the SNP Baaaddd!!! My arse Small Dick Leonard.

    75. msean says:

      How many of this ‘crowd’ took the train and got there on time?

    76. Eckle Fechan says:


    77. Harry mcaye says:

      Auld Rock – BBC Films were indeed one of the producers of I, Daniel Blake. Apparently though, on the showing at the weekend, they left out a bit at the end before the credits rolled, which was a statistic on the number of people who have died while waiting on their appeals. I never saw it at the cinema but can confirm there was no such stat on Saturday night. Now, why would they do that I wonder?

    78. Craig P says:

      Facing away from the electorate but towards the cameras of Pacific Quay.

      When the Americans invaded Iraq the first things they did was secure the oil wells and the broadcasting stations.

      No way is Scotland going to be allowed control over our own resources and airwaves for as long as the union lasts.

    79. Ronnie says:

      Labour had 13 years in government at Westminster and 8 years in Holyrood to nationalise the rail industry if they wanted to (though during that time rail was reserved to Westminster under the Railways Act).

    80. Millsy says:

      I wonder how many of these ‘protesters’ are paid employees of Labour ?
      If not , how did they get time off their work ? Did they phone in sick ?

    81. findlay farquaharson says:

      its great watchin that rotten to the core party die slowly

    82. Gary45% says:

      Expect Slab to protest outside PFI buildings against PFI contracts. (Obviously blaming the ESEMPEE to their gullible voters)
      Yes it would not surprise me, they really are THAT DIM.
      As for the EBC Shortbread Division.
      No words.

    83. Gary45% says:

      Harry mcaye@4.00
      Will be watching the DVD sometime this week, will look out for the part you mentioned.

    84. mike cassidy says:

      Re “I, Daniel Blake”

      I normally wouldn’t include such a large quote

      But I’m wondering whether this interpretation from one reviewer – on the IMDB site – was on the minds of Ken Loach and Paul Laverty when they were making it

      “For anybody who is still struggling to understand the results of the recent Brexit referendum,(and quite possibly the American Presidential Elections) I would recommend watching this film. The unlucky, the ill, the struggling, the poor, and those who now have no hope left are bleakly portrayed through real and believable characters.

      While selfishness from older voters, lack of education and racism are widely claimed to be the factors behind the support for Brexit, the film cleverly dismounts all of these, leaving the elephant in the room as the continuing decline of society, rising poverty and governmental response to the real problems of the working class.

      As one of the most abandoned areas of Europe, all of the North East of England voted for Brexit with the narrow exception of Newcastle where curiously the film is based. You start to understand why no-one there has any reason to vote to maintain a political system that is so obviously rigged against the the working class and their destruction.

      Yes. I would highly recommend “I, Daniel Blake”. But be warned, it’s not comfortable viewing for anybody.

      In a surrealistic modern day “Catch 22″ situation Daniel Blake, a 59 year old carpenter after suffering a heart attack, is declared medically unfit for work. He then needs to confront a state welfare system that is not only completely deficient, but politically designed to further exclude those who it claims to help. What could be just a dark comedy rapidly turns into extremely uncomfortable viewing.

      My congratulations to Ken Loach, the actors and the entire team who made this film. A stark lesson in both social and political sciences for today’s society and those in power who claim to represent us.

      Ironically, the film was made with funding from the European Union. It’s about the nearest thing to a joke in the entire 100 minutes.”

    85. PhilM says:

      Wetter together…

    86. Lenny Hartley says:

      Muscleguy @1:29 your obviously not a victim of Cal-Mac’s incompetance if you want that bunch of total clowns to run the Railways. They are not fit for purpose, a more shambolic useless organisation you could not meet. To think that for decades I used to publically support Cal-Mac , that is until i moved back to Arran on a permanent basis , it did not take me long to see the error of my ways.
      If they got anywhere near a failway franscise, at least half of the West Coast of Scotland would be permantly protesting at Hollyrood.
      If you think that I am over egging the situation, yesterday I was socialising with a Cal-Mac seaman, he told me , you dont know half off it, the screwups are unbelieveable he said, at times it hard to get your head around how totally incompetent the Gourock HQ is.
      As before my comments are not addressed at the Cal-Mac workforce who do a great job in at times very trying circumstances invariably due to some idiot at Gourock making the wrong decision.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      They were probably busking for funds.

    88. geeo says:

      Nicola mentions indyref plans ‘coming very soon’ and the usual suspects lose their minds…

      From The Herald.

      *(cliche alert)*

    89. winifred mccartney says:

      bbc radio scotland still reporting the ‘protest’ outside Central Station this morning and to add insult to injury had the tory transport spokesperson on complaining. Only in Scotland and only with the bbc.

    90. Gary45% says:

      Not to lower the tone on I Daniel Blake, but has anyone got this years VIZ 2019 Christmas annual.
      Page 74 Hell Below Zero.
      Take a chance to read the page or even a wee look in the shops if you don’t buy it.
      To me this sums up the state the country is in under the Conservative and Unionist Party.
      Would the current English Labour party be any better? I have no idea.

    91. PhilM says:

      If you look at the side-on pic…is that not ex-STV’s Aidan Kerr looking down at his phone next to big man with big beard?
      Probably texting the Integrity Initiative…do I get to start my own cluster now David?

    92. Ken500 says:

      I, Daniel Blake priduction started in 2015 before the EU Referendum, which will only make things worse. Higher unemployment and less workers rights. A critique of ‘austerity’ The evil regime structure.

    93. ronnie anderson says:

      As James Cassidy of Airdrie for Yes is saying all Scottish trade unionist should attend the Unions branch meetings and have their say . I’ve long said the British Unions will use the gullible membership to discredit the SNP Gov .

    94. call me dave says:

      Wah! Jamie Greene Tory transport spokesperson given carte-blance on radio shortbread to talk a lot but not say much except SNP bad.

      He even said in his rant that changing the operator was not on as it wouldn’t help things but three times called for the SG to be stronger and get the operator to comply.

      Didn’t like nationalisation and fobbed it off. Never occurred to the BBC to ask what the tories would do different. He never volunteered to suggest a solution.

      Then…’he was gone’ like in the usual suspects. 🙂

    95. Legerwood says:

      mogabee @ 1.56pm

      Here are some stats for passenger numbers etc for Scotrail for 2015-16

    96. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Proud Cybernat

      Left a message for you at the end of the previous post. “Return……..”

    97. Clapper57 says:

      Well we all know Labour turned their backs on us a long time ago… we have on them…with or without Corbyn as leader ……no amount of blatant party politicking photo opportunities will persuade voters to return to them or indeed engage those voters still to be persuaded.

      I think the voters have now wised up to who, politically, is working for Scotland and who is working against it.

      If you are a member of a political party who subscribed to a campaign that promoted the message that we were Better Together, and then subsequently, you spend years after this complaining about the negative and detrimental impacts on services in Scotland as part of that Union that you said made us stronger.

      Then perhaps you need to realise why some of us, in Scotland, voted to leave the UKOK because we knew that being constantly denied the opportunity to flourish by being tied to oppressive UKOK policies as dictated by WM is not conducive to living in a thriving and progressive country .

      (Of course your carping from the sidelines are merely a part of a collective Unionist grievance mongering perpetrated solely to harm the SNP and deceive voters within Scotland while conveniently omitting the many negative and damaging links via WM).

      Labour , like other Unionist parties, endorsed this message that we would not only be better together but that the alternative would be……….well the very things that they now complain about as being bad……they expect the Scottish government to mitigate those WM policies which are very much thanks to those who promoted the Better Together campaign…as opposed to the alternative Yes campaign which promoted generating progressive policies that would benefit those who live in an independent Scotland……not flag waving nationalists as falsely claimed by those who are very much flag waving Unionists….but solely in a desire to live in a more forward thinking country that benefited everyone who lived in it….irrespective of their nationality.

      The Scottish government should not need to implement more mitigation on draconian Tory policies instead it should be able, as an independent government of an independent country, to initiate and then generate policies that will work for all people who choose to live and work in Scotland……when independent if some things do go wrong, do not work, have no benefit to me and mine …then ,if justified , Labour & co can , if they must, complain, and they will, but for now they are clearly seeing their own vision, as part of Better Together, as not working ….well most definitely not working for Scotland that’s for sure….and never will….it is flawed and unworkable and only serves to demonstrate that sometimes, as in the UKOK (non) Union, it has been proven that it is better us and them being apart….. than being together.

      So Labour shut up….

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      It is the British way of doing thing old chap. Mind you, for £65k a year, I’d certainly be tempted to support British imperialism and oppose the principle of universal human rights. Tough call though. 😉

    99. Capella says:

      For anyone curious about the HES suspension and the firm’s workers unpaid over Xmas, Douglas Fraser, Business Editor of BBC Scotland, produces a useful article. Shines some light into the fog of claim and counter claim. A very shady state of affairs.

    100. ronnie anderson says:

      Is it not ironic that Rangers have signed a DeFoe

    101. Macart says:

      Deary me. What an embarrassment Labour are.

      As for the photo op bullshit? FFS! What can you say?

      The media in Scotland really, REALLY, are doing themselves no favours by being party to this nonsense.

    102. Legerwood says:

      The office of Rail and Road ( produces annual statistical reports on railway finances.

      They are not overly long reports but do summarise a lot of data on different aspects of the rail network. They are particularly interesting when compared with the spin pushed by the likes of Labour etc.

      If you search for: Rail Finance 2017-18 Annual Statistics.

      On the topic of Scotrail-Abellio and its recent and continuing problems, reports of the disruption often fail to mention that rail staff have been taking industrial action since October through to mid-December when the matter was finally settled. The ‘action’ took the form of an overtime ban and ban on rest day working. The rail staff wanted to be paid the same as train drivers when they work on rest days. Train drivers are paid £300 per rest day worked.

      This of course has delayed training for operation of the new trains.

      Reports have also made much of staff shortages but not so much about Abellio creating 100 new posts for train drivers shortly after taking over the contract. Train drivers threatened to strike over this increase in drivers because it would mean a reduction in overtime and rest day working.

      In August 2018 Abellio announced they were taking on an additional 140 rail staff to try to reduce the reliance on rest day working. Existing rail staff voted on taking industrial action in September 2018. No connection of course.

      Again the industrial action impacted training of the new staff.

      The rail unions seem to be reverting to the behaviour seen in the 1970s when strikes etc were often more frequent than the train service.

      Finally for the absence of doubt train fares rose annually when BR were in charge of the nationalised railways

    103. Republicofscotland says:

      As expected BBC Shortbread news led with the story of the terrible train service in Scotland. The bollocks laden story also featured Richard Leonard and his handful of dolts outside Central station in Glasgow.

      The BBC really is an enemy of a progressive Scotland independence is a must.

    104. Dan Huil says:

      @ronnie anderson 6:23pm

      Well spotted. Truly germane.

    105. Iain says:

      It is a shame that the bbc and the labour party seek to prey on the illinformed and vulnerable people with their lying propaganda.
      They know that most people are technology aware and their only audience is the old and vulnerable people who are not capable of checking the so called facts they call news.
      The bbc who once had a reputation for being impartial are selling their legacy down the river.
      I never believe anything the bbc says without checking some more reliable foreign sources.

    106. mac says:

      Dick(head) Leonard is not only a total fuckin Britnat wanker who has visions of becoming First Minister of Scotland, he is also English.

      I don’t know which is his worst handicap,,,there are so many

    107. Giving Goose says:

      Saw it on Scottish BBC news.
      I watched it to demonstrate to another person with me the total orchestrated propaganda that is BBC Scotland and British Nationalist Labour.
      I compared the coverage with the Rev’s piece and content from Twitter.
      So BBC Scotland, if you’re reading this, you’ve lost another viewer.

    108. Bill Hume says:

      When the leader of the so called “Scottish” Labour party can only muster about a dozen people for an anti SNP photo shoot……..They are already a spent force in Scottish politics.

      It’s been a good day.

    109. Petra says:

      It would be interesting to know how long Leonard et al were standing around for. Just turned up, pre-arranged photographs taken tout de suite and then p*ssed off?

      Next up the BBC, STV et all with a wee studio that they can use, out of the rain, with a variety of backdrops made available.


      With the number of Scots signing up for the Military plummeting you’d think the MoD would get their act together.

      Stephen McWhirter (snowflake) of the Scots Guards now threatening to quit.

      On STV news earlier.


    110. Bill Hume says:

      mac at 6:52.
      Piss off with your anti English shite, there’s a good boy.

    111. ronnie anderson says:

      Dan Huil ah wiz waiting on some of the History buffs on here tae mention it , ah love that word germane nice to see somebody got ma point lol.

    112. jfngw says:

      Magnificent piece of manipulation there by Reporting Scotland, they were obviously determined to get the Labour piece on air even after it had been the laughing stock of twitter all day.

      Decided they could produce a piece about ‘extra refunds’, not sure how accurate this was a nobody from the company was interviewed, just seems to be a press release, but enough so they could tag on the Leonard bit.

      No pictures of the ‘protests all over Scotland’, although if it was the same as the James Kelly at Cambuslang it was really just solitary Labour people making selfies at stations.

      RP would certainly be in contention to win a Golden Globe for ‘best manufactured news stories’.

    113. Petra says:

      Thanks for the link Dan (6:47pm). Now I wonder why the BBC hasn’t reported on that?

    114. call me dave says:

      Some tit for tat and +57Euros: Bloody foreigners. 🙂

      Seen on WoS twitter.


      De Foe! Shurley shome mishtake Ronnie. 🙂

    115. K1 says:

      So nice of the BBC to manufacture our news for us like this.

      We’re truly blessed. Only in Scotland will you find willing and trustworthy journalists who bravely uncover the dark underbelly of the trains and things that are happening with them.

      Only the courage and derring do of our BBC Scotland investigative reporting on the harrowing tragedy of schools and things that are happening with them too.

      And only in Scotland will you find the fearless reach of the many brilliant and really clever journalists that will dare to report on the deep and disturbing nightmare that is NHS Scotland and things that are happening with them too.

      What a time to be alive in this brave and bold Scotland!

    116. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi geeo at 5:13 pm.

      You provided the link to the Herald article:-

      which I read. And something jumped out of the article. It wasn’t a quote from Nicola or anyone else – it was input from the writer, Tom Gordon. He opined,

      “However Ms Sturgeon’s mandate for a second referendum depends on Brexit going ahead.

      The SNP’s 2016 Holyrood manifesto said Holyrood should have the right to hold another referendum in two scenarios.

      First, if there was “clear and sustained evidence” that independence had become the preferred option for most Scots – and there is no such clear and sustained evidence.

      Or, second, “if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will”.

      If a People’s Vote or other event halted Brexit, the second scenario would also not apply.”

      That is the biggest pile of ßüLL$h!† I’ve seen ‘in print’ in a while. There is no way that the mandate for indyref2 depends on Brexit going ahead!

      He then goes on to contradict himself in the second part of his opinion by quoting from the SNP’s manifesto,
      “Or, second, “if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014″”.

      Many commenters on WOS and elsewhere, have noted that the 1707 Treaty of Union will have been breached if Northern Ireland is treated differently to the rest of the UK, ie, staying in the single market and customs union, and the power grab of devolved powers that should be returned to Holyrood also amounts to “a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014”.

      Brexit is immaterial, when you look at the others. I’m beginning to think Nicola has a number of rabbits in her hat, up her sleeve.

      A poor piece of ‘journalism’ by Mr Gordon.

    117. Ian Mackay says:

      You would have thought with the Tories @ Westminster – in Martin Clunes’ words “this current shite storm of a Government” – and the god awful Brexit debacle, that the Labour Party would be reaping the rewards and the polls would show that Corbyn would be a PM in waiting.

      Instead Corbyn is shown as ineffectual, his own wish for Brexit is killing the Labour Party support and his personal poll rating for PM is at the basement.

      And here, Richard Leonard of British Labour in Scotland is utterly hopeless. Not knowing what policies are devolved or reserved; and unable to steer his failing MSPs or the remaining activists to even appear professional or competent.

      I reckon most Scots must look at “this current shite storm” of a Labour Party and thank their lucky stars for the SNP; notwithstanding “this current shite storm” of Unionist claptrap from the MSM and “this current shite storm” of unionist trolls on social media.

      Time to be out of “this current shite storm” of a Union.

    118. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi call me dave at 7:20 pm.

      You linked to,

      Looks like my pals, Steve Smith (Zeek The Freak) and Dave Mann (The Great Giz), who moved from Dundee to The Netherlands in 1980, will be ok.

    119. Thepnr says:

      What possible reason could the likes of Farage have had back in 2015 in their attempts to paint the Scots and the SNP as racist and anti-English?

      Attempts that are continuing to this day.

      If you can’t work that one out then there is little hope for you.

      NIGEL Farage has courted fresh controversy by branding the SNP “openly racist” and has accused ex-party leader Alex Salmond of fuelling anti-English resentment in Scotland.

      The Ukip leader, on the campaign trail in Hartlepool, said: “‘The biggest racism I have seen in British politics is happening north of the border where some of the anti-English hatred is reaching a truly astonishing level.”

      He went on: “T?he SNP are openly racist. The anti-English hostility and the kind of language that is used about and towards English people is totally extraordinary. If my supporters behaved in the way that some of those pro-independence supporters behaved in the referendum I’d have been painted out to be the worst person that had been seen for 70 years in British politics.”

      I propose those posting anti-English rhetoric on Wings should henceforth be known as “Farage’s little helpers” as they have proven to be as racist as he and his former party are.

    120. ronnie anderson says:

      call me dave Honest tae cod we chist need the gene genie ologists tae findoot if there’s any relation tae the Daniel britnat infiltrator DeFoe

    121. Capella says:

      Iain mhor says:
      7 January, 2019 at 12:41 pm
      Afternoon all.
      Still in the midst of a bout of Hansard reading from post war politics of 1950 anent the “Schuman Plan” (germ of the eu)
      There are a few gems – “plus ca change…”

      Thx for posting this link Iain (on the previous thread). It is a very interesting read, specially the Bob Boothby comments at 4.15.
      Who would have thought that such a decadent character could make such a coherent speech.

      Link for anyone who may have missed it previously. Shows how these tired old arguments of national sovereignty, the Trans Atlantic alliance versus Europe, and British exceptionalism have a long and depressing history.

    122. Barry Murdoch says:

      BBC R Scotland moving onto how bad bridges are in Scotland. Helped by the RAC guy.

    123. Lanarkist says:

      “Or, second, “if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014?”.

      Scots Law in perpetuity. Supreme Court over ruling Scottish Gov, unelected House of Lords used to pass rule on continuity act, 15 minute non debate, rolling out UC in Scotland a la Poll Tax before rest of UK etc, etc!
      Several significant and material changes surely and not even a comprehensive list.

    124. geeo says:

      @BDDT @7.30pm

      That highlighted Tom Gordon part just shows the level of either ignorance of the situation or deliberate delusion of the media to sell a narrative.

      Someone on Wings though TG was a decent journalist last week, might want to review that assertion after this gibbering p*sh.

    125. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 7.15
      Aye they always try to slip in what their readers should be thinking.

      The other material change in circumstances is the alteration by Westminster of the Scotland Act without Holyroods consent!
      They like to forget that wan..
      If Brext is cancelled will they reset all that?

      And what about Fluffys new department will that go away?
      Otherwise what will it be used for?

      They’ve already changed things in Scotland and proved that the permanence of the Scottish parliament is not enshrined in legislation as promised..

      Stopping Brexit won’t, by itself, stop Indy ref 2 now,they’ve gone too far!

    126. Tom Busza says:

      Petra 7.18 pm

      Actually been reported by Beeb. now moved to top of page

    127. Thepnr says:

      Today the Herald on their front page used an image of an election poster of Nicola Sturgeon with a Nazi Swastika sprayed on it to highlight a story about alleged antisemitism in Scotland.

      Along with the anti-English rants of Farage it’s an interesting tactic the Britnats use when hinting at the SNP as “Nazis” you know because “they are a Nationalist Socialist party”.

      The article itself didn’t mention the SNP once and no wonder, because this “exclusive” by Paul Hutcheon was from the minutes of a meeting held at the Scottish Parliament in Feb of last year. The main body of the article was a presentation given at the meeting that itself was from a survey conducted in 2015.

      It would be funny if it were not so pathetic but from what I can find the original source of the defaced SNP poster with the Nazi swastika was from a tweet by Channel 4 journalist Alex Thomson from April 2015 yet used today by the Herald for their front page and no link to the SNP whatsover.

      A cybernat cynic might even believe that’s there’s an agenda here to paint Independence supporters as racist, fascist Nazi’s eh! Some idiots on the side of Independence even help them! Now who could believe that to be true LOL?

    128. yesindyref2 says:

      Just to the left of them is the place you get the Scotrail free bus if you’ve got a rail ticket, to Queens Street and Buchanan bus station. Free of course if you have a bus pass too, and reduced fair on the rail!

    129. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr If im remembering correctly Farages run in with the students in Edinburgh when he hid in a pub , some of those students were English mibbes that was another staged event .

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm well, the SNP started as a protest party, worked their way into opposition, and from there into Government.

      Labour started as a protest party, then opposition and government, back to opposition and now back to being a protest party.

      They’re near the end of the cycle of evolution.

    131. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thepnr, I just want to know if it is considered racist or anti English to loathe and detest Mr Farage , to wish him ill and never want him to set foot in my country ever again?

      Or is it OK?

    132. Thepnr says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Like you I detest Farage, I detest May, I detest Ian Ducan Smith. I detest them for their politics and not because of where they were born.

      Just for the record I detest Scots Fox, Davidson and Ross Thomson too because of what they stand for hahaha.

      So perfectly fine to detest a person and what they stand for, something else though to say the same about an entire nation or race.

    133. Giving Goose says:

      Farage is a Dunkirk fetishing, Churchill worshipping Little Englander who believes that Scots should be sub-serviant to “his kind”.
      Very like Richard Leonard, in fact.

    134. Al Dossary says:

      Whilt on the subject of fake news, Veterans Today is running for the 2nd or 3rd day in a row with an Integrity Initiative exposè.

      The reckoned over the weekend that they had been (unsurprisingly) involved in reporting of Skirpal incident. This one is about them proposing to use Hollywood films to counter Russia and China.

      David Leask & MI6-

      Sputnik on Skirpal –

      Hollywood films –

    135. Dr Jim says:

      It’s nor racist or anti English to say that England like all countries has idiots
      Every country probably has the same percentage of idiots although population wise that does mean England has a lot more

      If Scotland has say 10% of idiots that’s around half a million people but if England has the same percentage that’s 5.5 million which is more than the population of our entire country

      So if all the maddies in England vote for a monkey for king Scotland has to suck it up and worship the monkey king

      Everybody feeling equal in that voting system in our Union of equals now

    136. Davy says:

      No one appears to have noticed the real meaning of Richard Leonard’s protest.

      Now if you look closely at Richard Leonards face in the main photo, you will see a man filled with self inflicted constipation.

      I would guarantee its at least an inch past the flush but he is determined to hold it until the photo call is over.

      He is going to show those SNPBAD people that labour can hang on to shite with the best of them.

      The two ladies on the left are nipping it too but their sticking with Richard to the end, but the guy at the back is waving his leaflets with joy. he went to the station lave first.

      Congrats to Richard Leonard he has shown the country Labour is full of shit inside and out.

    137. Phronesis says:

      ‘Spurred on by Scotland, a small group of countries has now formed the Wellbeing Economy Alliance. The hope is that governments putting wellbeing at the center of their agenda will redirect their budgets accordingly…Likewise, metrics of equality of opportunity have only recently exposed the hypocrisy of America’s claim to be a land of opportunity: Yes, anyone can get ahead, so long as they are born of rich, white parents. The data reveal that the US is riddled with so-called inequality traps: Those born at the bottom are likely to remain there. If we are to eliminate these inequality traps, we first have to know that they exist, and then ascertain what creates and sustains them’

      Protection of Scotland’s status in the EU, protection of Scotland’s democratic institutions, control of all levers of power for the advancement of society for the common good should be the clarion call of 2019 for Scotland.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – teachers
      If I have this right, they/ve been offered 8%, backdated to last January (4% of it or all 8% I don’t know), and a further 3% in the third year.

      I think they should take it, but work to rule. Paid for 35 hours, work 35 hours. Or insist on doing their currently unpaid at home overtime, paid in school so their hours can be monitored, with lights, heating, supervision (for the hours) and security.

      The negotiations and threat of strike action should have been about some getting less than the living wage if they have 5 or more kids to do special work programs for each day.

    139. Gary45% says:

      Harry mcaye@4.00
      Just watched I Daniel Blake on DVD, nothing before the credits. Had the DVD for a while and just got round to watching it.
      Pretty upsetting stuff, god only knows how many people/families are in this situation.
      Shame on ALL TORIES. Blue and Red.

    140. carjamtic says:

      They say,to stand still is to go backwards and there are still those who believe that the rump of their former empire would last forever, unchanging.

      Any progressive, outward-looking thinking is to be silenced (by any means necessary) including immature placemen refusing to even debate the big political questions (why be a politician then) it appears they have simply not evolved and are stuck in the past,

      Scotland accepts, the outside world has passed on GB long ago and it’s verdict ?. That it was only a matter of time until it floundered,until it ran aground in the shallows….that time is now.

      This, more than any other reason is responsible for the surge towards Independence, for an outward-looking Independent Scotland,which is not only a sign of mature thinking,it is also an indicator that the people of Scotland have not only studied closely the realities of recent, contemporary political history but measured ourselves against it.

      And we also know, we have the ability,the opportunity to recover genuine dialogue and contact with other nations (including England) the implications of which will be necessitated by practical need.

      The image shown above captures the argument very well, Scots men and women going on their inward/outward journeys and their former imperial masters standing still,going backwards,the citizens of nowhere.

    141. mac says:

      The trouble with England is that it is full of little Englanders.

      Bitter racist ignorant arrogant bastards. Farage is just the tip of a poisonous, hateful shower of self centred fascists.

      The English Establishment and the BBC will go to any lengths to save their stinkin Union.

    142. Harry mcaye says:

      Gary – Interesting. My comment came from several folk on Twitter who had obviously remembered them from their cinema viewing. Maybe the stats were wrong and were therefore removed. Who knows?

      Re Reporting Scotland, I’m sure I saw a star last year that said only 5% of Scotland’s population watch it. People have obviously got better things to do with their time. I used to, in a “keeping an eye on the enemy” sort of a way. Now I just switch it off.

    143. @Al Dossary,

      Fascinating and frightening links to the murky underbelly of Brutish `democracy`,

      the coordination between the political the complicit BBC/media and intelligence services,

      in a smaller but similar way todays farce with Richard Leonard/politicians and the BBC/media shows that all news is being manipulated by someone/thing.

    144. auld highlander says:

      That coat he’s wearing makes him look like the pox doctors assistant.

    145. Stookie says:

      I’m guessing the National photographer’s invite was lost in the post??

    146. Effijy says:

      I’m sure that the 11 protesters all arrived safely and on Time by using the UK’s most efficient railway network, a network that was underfunded and allow to fall into disrepair by London Labour.

      At least they all got their expenses at the gathering and were able to almost fill 3 Taxis on their way home.

      Is that an old Doctor’s coat Dick Leonard is wearing?

      You don’t suppose he wore that to get these people out of …?

    147. Petra says:

      @ Tom Busza says at 8:10 pm …. ”Petra … Actually been reported by Beeb. now moved to top of page.

      Thanks for that Tom. I wonder if it’s actually been reported on the news? If that had been Independence supporters the MSM would be making a meal of it. For example remember when someone asked a pregnant Dirty Money Davidson a question in the street and she made a great big hoo-ha about it?

    148. mac says:

      Awe Naw!!!

      Evil Petra has signed on,,,,better watch the old lingo,,,she gas been known to “stab you in the back when you aren’t looking”.

    149. mac says:

      “I say old been, those chaps from south of the border are absolute bounders you know”.

      Howz that Pet’,,,,polite enough???

    150. Capella says:

      @ mac – that’s enough of your personal abuse. Petra is a long standing contributer to this site. Her contributions are positive and informative.
      You, on the other hand, post puerile, racist abuse. Stop it.

    151. Lenny Hartley says:

      Just watched Brexit a very uncivil war on channel four. Interesting stuff , the data mining organisations used by both factions of Vote leave to target social media (1 billion adverts by the official vote leave campaign) have links to Robert Mercer a US billionaire who was Trumps largest donor. I will leave aside his (Mercer’s) alledged close connections to the Bildenberg Group as the rev does not like conspiricy theories , however i would venture to suggest if they want a Brexit it will be a hard one and there is no stopping it.

    152. mac says:

      Awe right Cactus

      Hope you are well mate,,,,see you at the Wings night oot mate.

    153. Hamish100 says:

      mac — I wonder who you really are?

      Very similar posts to some contributors who make racist type comments (style and context). Get a good night sleep and when you wake up look at the opportunities available to Scotland without your bile at work.

      Come away from the evil empire– lol

    154. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      This is very significant.

      There is NO mention whatsoever of the Labour demonstration outside Central Station on the BBC Scotland online news.

      This issue which hugely dominated the evening news programme, described as “Demonstrations at Scottish railway stations”, has been pulled completely.
      Backfired I suspect. Well done Wings and other commentators.

      Labour Party in Scotland is dead.

    155. mac says:

      Cactus,,,I bet you I know who you will not be sending a Xmas card to ???

      Well I could name three right away Cactus lol.

      What are they like on here pal,,,one wee sweary word on here and they made your life hell.

      Let’s hope the Rev reverses the ban put on you because of complaints made by three individuals on here.

      They know who they are,,,,hang your heads in shame.

    156. galamcennalath says:

      Re Brexit and uncivil war …. I feel the lesson that the far right must have learnt is they can use dark money and dodgy manipulative techniques and get away with it. No one has been jailed, no overspend has been repaid, no significantly punitive fines imposed, no results called into question.

      We can expect all the same to be deployed in IndyRef2.

    157. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      Watched it too, looked to me like the biggest government advert ever telling all leave voters how they were conned into voting Leave.

      They swallowed the lies of “take back control”, the lies of £350m/week for the NHS and lies about immigration 70m Turks just waiting to get into the UK after they join the EU.

      If the government didn’t really want to lwave the EU and reckoned that oops we git that wrong in 2016 and didn’t expect it. Well if they wanted to change that result by getting it right “next time” with a 2nd referendum then they couldn’t have done a better job.

      Ac crap deal no one supports, a No deal that will result in chaos, hahaha I really think it’s possible it’s all been a con.

      Ask yourself just why would they show that film tonight on a government owned TV channel a week before a crucial vote? Why was it even made and more importantly why was it even released before we’ve left.

      I smell a second referendum coming on, warnings of shortages coming up next and as the tension builds food and medicine shortages. Eh smell shite! LOL

    158. Hamish100 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill
      Surely the SNP or Greens can call on Donalda (bbc) to explain how they justify their complicity with the Labour Party and the broader context of the Labour Party in Wales extending the private industry involvement with their railways.

      Pulling the story shows it was a non story but is still did not prevent them raising it on the radio at peak listening times including the evening news.

    159. mac says:

      The sad thing about this “Union” is that the majority of English don’t even see us as a Colony of England,,,but a mere “Region” of England.

      Similar to Yorkshire or Lancashire.

      Don’t ya just luv those quaint little Englanders???

    160. HYUFD says:

      If ‘Brexit an Uncivil War’ showed anything it is that Yes should have hired Dominic Cummings. He ran a brilliant anti establishment campaign for Vote Leave based on ‘taking back control’

    161. Lenny Hartley says:

      thepnr. I dont see a 2nd referendum, they have been kicking the can down the road for a reason. remember since Thatcher the UK (well the important south east has majored on Financial Services, ie Money laundering, Tax Avoidance and Evasion.) Europe is going to put a stop to a large part of that. if they were interested in a deal with Europe they would have one sorted out 18 months ago. I refer to my post above on who behind it, they say boo and politicians jump (very high) what we need to be concerned about is the same tactics being used against us come Indyref2.

    162. Thepnr says:

      The Yes campaign didn’t need Cummings, it did better without him.

    163. Dr Jim says:

      Tom Harris on Scotland tonight barely unable to contain his Britnat panic at the thought of an Independence referendum because this time he knows YES will win it, so he trotted out a couple of internet troll mumbles speaking over Anne McGloughlin the way that Bitnats do when they’re panicky

      If you’re reading Tom, because I know you do, you looked rather foolish for someone who likes to maintain an air of calm

      Always a giveaway when you do that son

    164. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      Maybe they have never wanted a deal but they have never wanted to leave either especially without any deal at all.

      The only way to “correct a wrong” if that is what is believed for the first result is to engineer another referendum that that people are demanding LOL.

      We Wis Robbed 🙂

    165. Liz g says:

      Alex are you able to send your email address to Rugloinain and ask her to pass it to me ?

    166. North chiel says:

      Petra @ 1100pm , MSM could not really downplay this . Just a thought Petra , with the current speculation of an extension to article 50 and the very recent TM government propaganda blitz reference NHS England would she be considering an extension as “ cover” for a GE which could regain her majority and “ ditch” the DUP ?? Just a thought. As ever , I always look forward to your opinions , thoughts etc. which I always look for . Your contribution over these years has always been polite, relevant and thought provoking.

    167. Dr Jim says:

      Helpmaboab thur aw back panickin away

    168. Rock says:

      The purpose of these stunts is to dupe the “plebs” and they achieve their purpose.

      That is all that matters to them.

      Not long before Nicola announces IndyRef 2 for 2640 AD.

    169. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      Will do it now, might have been easier the other way where she sent me yours LOL.

    170. Dr Jim says:

      I heard on the radio tonight what we all know and expect Theresa May will refuse to have a second EU ref because of the position the Tories feel of opening themselves up to coping with the refusal of a section 30 to legalise Scotland’s referendum

      But what they don’t seem to get is it’s not going to happen in quite the way they think it is and they should check their own Hansard to see why

      My name is Inigo Montoya you killed my father now prepare to die, and by the way this time we fight right handed

    171. Liz g says:

      LOL… never thought

    172. Hamish100 says:

      Rock says:
      8 January, 2019 at 12:05 am
      The purpose of these stunts is to dupe the “plebs” and they achieve their purpose.

      That is all that matters to them.

      Not long before Nicola announces IndyRef 2 for 2640 AD.

      How silly you will look when the FM does NOT announce a referendum for 2640 AD. Ooops happened already.
      Past your bedtime rock. The Unionists are getting worried obviously.

    173. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      It’s not her choice. The decision on whether there will be a 2nd EU referendum will not be made by Theresa May, it will be made by the Westminster parliament.

      Same as any decision on a 2nd Indy referendum will be made by Holyrood.

    174. Famous15 says:

      BEWARE of MAC

      His style of anti English shite gave me a hard time on the doorstep in 2014. I now realise this is black ops… he is a Unionist troll.

      Some of the hardest workers in my SNP branch are English so any spite and spin is not a friend of YES. All of Scotlands’peoples.are welcome in the SNP whatever their ethnic origins.

    175. Thepnr says:

      Here’s the continuation of the propaganda from tomorrow as the government try and push the panic button of ordinary people.

      “The Government will begin broadcasting radio adverts on Tuesday to help people prepare for Brexit, focusing on topics including passports, visas, healthcare and driving in the EU.

      They will provide information on both no-deal and other Brexit scenarios, and will be followed by billboards and posters in the coming weeks.”

      This all points to a 2nd ref, I might be totally wrong of course 🙂

    176. ElGordo says:

      I don’t know why i did it, well i do, but wish I hadn’t, but i googled only an excuse, and got 2018, unbelievable, still on the go, 20 years past its sell by date. That’s done me in. The cringe, that rangers celtic crap regurgitated by has-beens, it’s beyond shite and parody.

      Think i’m just about past the whole indy thing now, don’t deserve it. Will give it until “once brexit is known”. Beyond that fuck it. Given up after seeing that shite and occasional drop ins to the “daily record” and scottish press, is this really Scotland? Its not the people of Scotland.

      Doesn’t impact me as I am away (yeah wanker, but just making the best of), was always my dream , more than that, not just a dream, me, defined me, my identity, from a young age, the history, my family, (the football team), the injustice, the 1980’s, the unemployment, the miners, getting shown videos at school how to be a good unemployed and stay out of sight, start a bedroom/garage band, go for walks in the hills. That’s why I am away, and all my mates are too, spread throughout the world. No jobs, no future at that time.

      To be fair on the no’ers, the fearful, may be easier to see the stupidity of 2014 result when you have seen it from afar. Or at least that’s the excuse i’ll give to others for my fellow timorous beasties, when they incredulously can’t quite grasp the concept of the no vote , in order to salvage some respect, for my country and for me.

    177. Dr Jim says:

      @Thepnr 12.25am

      I know that but they don’t seem to understand their own rules
      but I guess they have to say stuff on the radio and TV in the hopes that some folk will believe them

    178. HYUFD says:

      Thepnr Blair Jenkins and Stephen Noon lost in 2014 when running the Yes campaign, Matthew Goodwin and Dominic Cummings won in 2016 when running the Leave campaign. Yes did better than expected but it still did not win unlike Vote Leave

    179. HYUFD says:

      Thepnr Blair Jenkins and Stephen Noon lost in 2014 when running the Yes campaign, Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings won in 2016 when running the Leave campaign. Yes did better than expected but it still did not win unlike Vote Leave

    180. Cubby says:

      Dr Jim@ 12.03

      I also saw Harris on Scotland Tonight. Harris is 100 % full up with the Scottish cringe. British Labour in Scotland perfect examples of the cringe.

    181. Thepnr says:

      So good they said it twice. 3 minutes apart as well, must be a wee too bit much bevvy left over from the hols I guess.

      Well hope your in bed soon as it’s back to the library for you tomorrow, there’s always files to be filed and shelves to be stacked. It’s like never ending and don’t I know it.

      Hope you had a Jolly Xmas and a guid New Year though.

    182. Dr Jim says:

      Our time is almost here and the Britnat trolls know it, that’s why they’re out in force tonight trolling their wee socks off
      The FMs twitter is heaving with the obnoxious abuse from all the usual suspects, the thing is there are no new ones anymore it’s the same dwindling bunch of threatening head cases just multiplying their abuse

      They just refuse to evolve or maybe they just can’t

    183. yesindyref2 says:

      Jings, and it’s not even Hallowe’en!

    184. K1 says:

      Talk about desperate cloying beggin for attention. Pfft!

    185. Mark Fletcher says:

      Anti-English rhetoric, whether on this site or aimed at the Yes community in general, is never going to excite anything other than utter contempt for its proponents. Most of us are Sassenachs after all.

      The English are a great people.

      However, I want Scotland to retain its own unique cultural traits, characteristics and institutions without any further Anglification. Without the interference of the Establishment and their miserable Scottish lackeys, without that perpetual Tory majority to the south, Scotland will soar. I look forward to the day when I can go into a supermarket and not see another bloody Union flag.

    186. yesindyref2 says:

      So basically speaking, Sturgeon on BBC saying the update on Indy Ref 2 will be fairly soon, by the time it got to her being on STV it’s become very soon.

      I guess by the time she gets on to Channel 4 it will be “imminent”.

    187. HYUFD says:

      Thepnr I posted again as you cannot amend previous posts on this site and I said Matthew Goodwin when I meant Matthew Elliott.
      I also work in records management rather than a library, albeit not too far off.

      I hope you had a good Christmas and New Year too, I am more of an occasional browser than a poster here now though

    188. K1 says:

      Good for you Simon. Thanks for dropping by. Hope your Breixt goes well, bye bye….love from Scotland.

    189. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 1.21
      Steady on K1
      I wouldn’t go that far
      Best Wishes from Scotland!!!
      Strikes the right tone
      Don’t ye think?

    190. Cubby says:

      WGD “2019 the breaking of Britain and the making of Scotland”

      I’ll go further – 2919 the breaking of Britain, the making of Scotland and the unification of Ireland.

      Forecasting does that make me seem like Rock. Don’t think so. Rock has never posted anything positive and has never got a forecast correct.

    191. Dr Jim says:

      I don’t care for Anna Soubry or any of them BUT….:

      England has become a dangerous place now if you’re not a mad Brexiter or a right wing head case and both Tories and Labour did this by appealing to that demographic to win votes aided and abetted by a lunatic media and now the English government are so afraid of the consequences of NOT doing what they demand the’ve given in to the mob

      The British government ALWAYS negotiates with terrorists and now they’ve turned their own population into that which they fear

      This Brexit debacle can’t end quick enough so we can go even quicker before it infects us worse than the Yoon head cases we’ve already got right here

      The media in England are actively under reporting the badness that’s going on now in the hope of avoiding the encouragement of even more headers which is strangely the opposite approach the media in Scotland would take because the same attitude here would be a delight for them, you just need to look back a little to remember *The egg* story which graced our TVs for over three weeks as a violent outburst and may even have been engineered and instigated by the Labour party anyway because they have provable form on that type of behaviour

      It’s funny though when you look back because the attempt on Alex Salmonds life by a nutter who drove a car at him only to be saved by a security escort hardly made a ripple in Scotlands fearless dedicated newsroom band of *journalists* to air what should have been National huge news around the entire UK but was reported is if it were a *Cat stuck up a tree* story

      The Tories can murder people, deport folk in the night for nothing, ignore deaths of the homeless on their streets but if the SNP misses a target by as little as 1% or the wind blows so strongly restrictions have to be placed on speed limits to cross a bridge over the bloody sea it’s front and centre TV and newspaper headlines on how terrible they are

      And still they insist they’re impartial observers and reporters of the truth….. I mean really really?

    192. K1 says:

      Aye..slipped up there Liz…let ma invisible self show through. Off course…condolences and fare ye well strikes a more apt tone 😉

    193. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 3.20

    194. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 8 January, 2019 at 12:37 am:

      ” … Yes did better than expected but it still did not win unlike Vote Leave.”

      Define, “Won”?

      In the wake of that daft affair the SNP membership had a sudden influx of new members and have continued to increase membership ever since.

      Just have a wee scance on YouTube at the numbers of AUOB and YES supporters marching through our cities and compare them to the tiny band of butcher’s apron wavers protesting about the marches.

      Now here’s the thing – it is simple to fix any form of opinion poll and we even have one particular pollster that actually keeps a register of signed up, and paid for, members. It is simplicity therefore to select those members you know will give you the answer you want but you cannot fake a massive march through the streets of Scotland.

      Another indication is the volunteers in the YES movement who deliver leaflets, knock doors and man/woman stalls throughout the year. Yet every Westminster unionist party in Scotland had to use the postal service to deliver their leaflets and they also had to bus in people from out-with Scotland to campaign.

      The point of all that is that the Scottish electorate very soon realised they had been lied to and the Westminster claims that the way to remain in the EU was a downright deliberate lie and that is why the unionist expectation that the Scots would get back in their unionist provided box has been well an truly debunked.

      Ready yourself for Little Englanders to find themselves the ones confined in a box of their own making that they had intended to contain the Scots.

      However, as that box was constructed to contain the Scots but is now going to be filled by Brexiteers who have suddenly discovered that, “Britain”, could not exit the EU because Britain is not an EU member state. The Member state is The United Kingdom and the united Kingdom is a bipartite union in which one partner kingdom voted to remain. Can you deny that?

    195. Dr Jim says:

      @ Robert Peffers 5.50am

      This particular Troll is not like @Rock or some of the other twits this one would deny the sky was up and the earth down and he’ll do it all day, his blood is pure Britnat and no other country exists except his, the land of Britengland and he believes he owns Scotland like he owns his front door and he will refuse to understand a word you say because to him you are a lesser mortal with no rights

    196. Petra says:

      @ North chiel says at 12:05 am … ”Petra MSM could not really downplay this. Just a thought Petra, with the current speculation of an extension to article 50 and the very recent TM government propaganda blitz reference NHS England would she be considering an extension as “cover” for a GE which could regain her majority and “ ditch” the DUP ?? Just a thought. As ever, I always look forward to your opinions, thoughts etc. which I always look for. Your contribution over these years has always been polite, relevant and thought provoking.”

      Thanks NC. As to Big T she’ll probably lose next week and apply for an extension. Whatever happens thereafter (GE – Corbyn or May win) it won’t matter as we’ll be out of the single market at the very least triggering IndeRef2. The only (slight) threat to us now would be an EURef2 which I doubt will happen taking into account remain could win which would trigger riots and the implosion of the Tory Party …. and we can’t have that now, can we?

      Meanwhile the BBC highlighted the ”Nazi Soubry” issue this morning as dozens of politicians have seemingly written to the Police Commissioner (sh*tting themselves) complaining about increasing Brexiteer itimidatory behaviour and the fact that this is now a security risk. Scotland Yard is investigating.


      Other news: Alex’s case being heard today and scheduled for over four days next week.

    197. mac says:

      Yes Cactus

      There are evil people on Wings.

    198. Ken500 says:

      Labour – unionists support sanctioning and killing people. The Westminster unionists all support it. They have illegally killed and maimed millions worldwide. The illegal wars have caused the worst migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. The unionists Parties are appalling. Liars. Blaming everyone else’s for their crimes and hiding it under the Official Secrets Act or ‘D’ notices. Every one of these Parties are responsible for death and destruction in the world. They are illegal mass murderers. Their behaviour breaks all rules and Laws of humanity. They are disgusting beyond belief.

      Their record of unecessary hardship imposed on people is just appalling. Totally unecessary wanton behaviour. Brexit is an accumulation of the illegal, cruel behaviour. If they are not stopped they will destroy the world economy again. Like these imbeciles have done before too many times.

      People in Scotland should vote agsinst these people. It is the right thing to do if they care about others. They do. The Westmster vandalism on the world really has to stop. The only way to stop these people in Scotland is to vote SNPSNP. Vote for Independence. To stand up for a Scotland and stop the imbeciles in Westminster illegally destroying the world. Killing and sanctionig people, causing war and destruction worldwide. The vote is in the people’s hand. Use it, use it to stop Armageddon. and abuse, The last battle between good and evil. Be part of it.

      If May and her cronies are not brought down the appalling abuse will continue. People need to be part of stopping it. Vote against the appalling behaviour. Vote for a more prosperous, equal fairer society of happier people. The power is in the people’s hand. Use it. Do not abuse it. Do what is right. Good luck everyone. It might be a guid (New) year after all. 2019. The year things changed for good.

    199. Nana says:

      Social Security Secretary @S_A_Somerville has announced the appointment of Dr Sally Witcher as chair of the Scottish Commission on Social Security, a new body tasked with scrutinising the Scottish social security system.

    200. Nana says:

      J Cherry says
      I’ve called on UK Govt to release their legal advice on #SeaborneFreight #ferrycontract. They say they proceeded under Regulation 32 of Public Contracts Regs but I doubt there was the requisite urgency because #NoDeal #Brexit is not an “unforeseeable event”

      Another EU official says clearly that Scotland can easily Rejoin the EU after brexit, as it’s already aligned with every standard and requires a simple negotiation of terms.

    201. Nana says:

      What hope is there for indecisive Scotland? We’re at a crossroads of independence in Europe, Tory Brexit Britain, or Corbynism. Our future is at stake. Will Scots forge a new path or will lethargy leave control elsewhere?

    202. Nana says:

      30 months after the UK referendum, what conclusions can we draw about Brexit in particular and the process of trying to quit the EU in general? A thread. in 15 parts.

      Anyone got a spare vessel!

      UK financial services sector shifts £800bn in assets to Europe

    203. Nana says:

      EU moves closer to tightening rules on London-based investment firms

      Will not archive

      One for yesindyref2
      Britain’s newly released policy document on modernising its defence programmes ultimately leaves unanswered the bigger questions about the potential effects of leaving the #EU, writes Trevor Taylor, in a new Commentary.

    204. Ken500 says:

      Good luck Alex. Go for it. Win again. Best wishes. You are fit for them and they know it. The unionists will lose again.

    205. mac says:

      Evil Ken

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      Good grief, don’t read the article by Michael Fry in The National unless you don’t know Scotland like he don’t.

      This says it really (about Gavin Williamson) “as a global military power envisaged by the secretary of state in a Daily Telegraph interview on 30 December 2018.

      He’s gung-ho, and raised quite a few eyebrows in the defence establishment for that. I actually approve (from a defence point of view), it needed someone like him after the lack-lustre credit-taking Fallon with his “the navy is growing” junk. Meanwhile letting the T26 be cut from 13 to 8 without a murmur.

      As for the nuclear deterrent, I’ve wondered since 2013 or so if it’s likely to be effective in 2030 or even before, with just one boat at sea and one on standby. I think a minimum of 3 which would mean double the amount of Dreadnoughts, at 8. Things are moving on, and one boat is very high risk of being totally neutralised.

    207. Hamish100 says:

      Mac – why dont you phone cactus or gie him a wee visit. That would be nice.

    208. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers You win by getting over 50%, Leave got 52%, Yes got 45%.
      If wins in any indyref2 in the next few years it will be largely a vote against a hard Brexit and because Scotland wants to stay in the EU, as even you have effectively admitted, not a vote primarily for Scottish independence on its own terms as the 2014 campaign was based around.

    209. HYUFD says:

      The Vote Leave campaign however did win on a platform effectively for independence and leaving the EU, unlike the Yes campaign for independence and leaving the UK

    210. Nana says:

      Shares in whitewash anybody?

      I have heard that civil servants are making sure absolutely everything is in writing (and where necessary under direction) – for when the massive public enquiry, which will swallow up yet more of our taxes, comes – as it surely will.

      From 2014 /Chunky Mark on the McCrone report

    211. yesindyref2 says:

      Scotland voted 62% Remain, only 38% Leave.

    212. mac says:

      The downfall of England going to plan.

      Brexit is fast approaching

    213. wull2 says:

      Bet they are hoping some questions are not asked under oath (Alex)

    214. Famous15 says:


      Kidding on now that he said English “Establishment”.Well no he didnae,he is inserting a vicious anti English note to these discussions and that means he is an
      anti independence troll.

      Gatekeeper? Is it? Just read what Stu thinks of blood and soil nationalism. He thinks it stinks too.

      It is a ploy of the Unionist to shoehorn the SNP and Yes movement into policies thet clearly they do not hold.

      We are civic,democratic,progressive and liberal in that old fashioned way! Vote for independence.

    215. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT Not that I am interested in football at all but it just occurred to me that there are many , many perfect English speaking footballers around playing for many UK clubs . What will happen to them with the big B?

      Also , I understand there is a thing called the European cup , will UK teams no longer be invited to participate?

      Please don’t knock yourselves out trying to explain this to someone who neither knows nor cares what the offside rule is – just idle curiosity on my part.

    216. Tom Busza says:

      Beeb radio phone in with Laura Maxwell coming up: “What do you think of Scotland’s railways?”
      Should be interesting to see how many of the callers have an “agenda”.

    217. stu mac says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says:
      7 January, 2019 at 3:55 pm
      BACK in the 1960s, the then Dr Beeching

      Iain Hislop’s program on this some years back pointed out that though a lot of stations needed closing, Beeching was too ‘mechanical’ (my word) in his thinking. He would see one station at or near the end of a line wasn’t worth keeping open and would close nearly every station on that line, even though some were still fairly busy. Basically looking at individual numbers and ignoring the overall picture. Of course, happily encouraged in this by the motor industry.

    218. Davosa says:

      Those SLAB numpties. What a sad bunch of losers they really are

    219. Mike says:


      You clearly miss the point. Its not unionist trolling to point out that our opponents are not civic Nationalists but blood and soil Little Englanders. The whole point of the UK is the absolute promotion of Little England and all it stands for. Make no mistake since 1707 there has been a growth and decline of a Little England empire where the patronised and privileged got that way by adopting a Little England mentality.
      Now we can be a nice and accommodating as its possible to be but I guarantee our opponents wont be. They accuse us by promoting projection of themselves onto us and they get away with it because they have an entire National media corps to promote their agenda.
      We are dealing with nothing less than organised crime syndication adopting Fascist political clothing. If you think the UK will end through a mutually agreed civilised Democratic process then you’re living a fantasy.
      I believe Nicola Sturgeon understands this all too well which is why she hold back from the Democratic process of another referendum I believe she wants the UK to expose itself fully to the world for what it is before she makes her move towards taking us inevitably to a UDI knowing full well that when she attempts to exercise her legitimate mandate for a second Indyref it will be declined and ignored.
      The UK Government have already told us so in no uncertain terms. You’re just not listening.

    220. Breeks says:

      North chiel says:
      8 January, 2019 at 12:05 am
      Petra @ 1100pm , MSM could not really downplay this . Just a thought Petra , with the current speculation of an extension to article 50 and the very recent TM government propaganda blitz reference NHS England would she be considering an extension as “ cover” for a GE…

      The European Elections run from May 23-26, and extending Article 50 would create a Constitutional dilemma over whether UK MEP’s should face re-election pending imminent departure from the EU. Would Europe grant the UK a vote, allow them to take their seats with a raft of disruptive new arseholes like Farage and Coburn? Hmmm… tough choice for Europe there eh?

      Given an extension of Article 50 would require to clear the hurdle of unanimous agreement of all 27 Members, even if it did grant an extension, you’d likely be looking at a stay of execution probably less than 50 days, because Brexit will be real or dead BEFORE the EU elections.

      You might secure a token extension of the Brexit countdown, but what ACTUALLY changes from electing a new UK government? A pro-Brexit Corbyn Government? Or more likely the same shit storm Tory Government playing musical chairs. All things considered, I don’t believe Europe would buy the pup of a proposed UK general election.

      To go for any extension, I think Europe would need to be persuaded that granting the UK “think again” head space would be sound only if the notion was to kill off Brexit and choose remain. If the delay was merely to decide whether the UK is ruled by blue lunatics or red ones, I don’t think Europe will be persuaded to grant any extension of time.

      In the time left, with March 29th the primary deadline, and May 23rd as a secondary deadline, in my opinion, the only plausible option the EU would go for is full revocation of Article 50 to kill Brexit stone dead. No extension of time required at all.

      But as Spinning Hugo pointed out in his blog, because the Gina Millar Case won the argument that Parliament must make the decision, the revocation of Article 50 is not a hasty affair, and would have to make its way through the House of Commons and secure a Parliamentary majority, and that through a Westminster Parliament which is already hostile to the principle of a people’s vote to change the outcome of Brexit. It would seem doubtful adequate time or political momentum remains to do that.

      Brexit is already beginning to harden like a setting concrete. The options for working it into the desired shape are stiffening by the minute. Instead of being worked into a neat floor, it essentially retains the crude organic form of being shat-by-lorry.

      And if the UK is nearly out of time and wriggle room, then precisely where does that leave Scotland which doesn’t even yet have recognised Legal Personality to make its voice even heard? We’re not acting like a Nation. We’re acting like the UK’s luggage.

      But such objective and pragmatic fears are now increasingly being dismissed by all the SNP acolytes who post here. Anybody expressing concern about the impending disaster about to befall Scotland unless action is taken to prevent it are attacked as secret unionists in a coordinated conspiracy. If you don’t have faith in Nicola’s secret plan, you’re an unworthy heretic. We’re like the US conscripts in Vietnam. We’re winning but somehow we’re not winning at the same time, and we’re turning on ourselves.

      For months now this forum has ceased to be a constructive talk-space where progressive ideas could be discussed on their merits to be either shot down or resonate. These days it’s just a constant bickering where nobody has anything progressive to say, and the membership is now binary, if you lack blind faith in the SNP you must be a Unionist conspirator. How far we have fallen from the heady days of aspiration through YES in 2014.

      Independence feels like it’s currently dead in the water and praying for a miracle. We needed a lifeboat to jump ship from the SS Great Britannia, but now I’m eyeing up the life ring in case I need to jump ship from the lifeboat, because it seems to me the SNP has no pre-Brexit strategy at all, but already has its head in the post Brexit apocalyptic landscape.

      It’s been pointed out my argument that Scotland should be looking to emulate the success of the Super 6 taking a Constitutional matter to the ECJ is “fantasy”. Well, it’s true, I’m neither a lawyer nor a Constitutional expert. If we tried, we might fail, and somehow the Constitutional truth wouldn’t emerge, but frankly I am at a layman’s loss to even imagine the UK Establishment cobbling together a cohesive argument against us. What do we lose by trying?

      The UK’s Supreme Court has already tried to bottle up Scotland and set resounding failure as it’s precedent. The UK’s Westminster Government formally respects Scotland’s Claim of Right that the Scottish People are Sovereign, yet in the same breath rides roughshod over that very Sovereignty. The Union itself is study in asymmetric interpretation of a bipartitite Treaty between Constitutional Equals, Scotland consigned to the worst and least favourable interpretation of every ambiguity and the most obscure small print. The English Parliament in all but name however maintains the unholy equilibrium by claiming the best and most advantageous interpretation for it’s own ends, and does it with such casual disrespect for our Nation that it thinks nothing of willfully distorting absolute truths, yet still we roll along with it as we always have. These are the everyday realities Scotland endures yet we wouldn’t see them tested in a Constitutional Courtroom?

      I despair. I really do. What the fk is wrong with us???

      The clock is now at 80 days, but sadly I fear the day we already “lost” Brexit is that day in 2016 when Scotland abdicated the principle of Constitutional Sovereignty backing up its massive Remain majority, and galloped towards an unconstitutional compromise which even then, was never anything else but a mirage. EVERYTHING since has been a solemn funeral march up a Cul de Sac, with our spirits sustained by the forlorn belief we can turn around at any moment and skip back to the fork in the road where we parted company with our Constitutional Sovereignty.

      But hey, don’t listen to crusty old heretic like me . What the fk do I know? I’m probably choking on my porridge in the 77 Brigade HQ and sticking a pitchfork in a kitten.

    221. Mike says:

      Nice article by the wee ginger dug on Corbyn pointing out rightly that he is nothing but another Tony Blair.
      About time we actually read that in the media. Getting tired of the horseshite coming from Labour regarding their false coats of socialism.
      Mind you Duncan Horshite will be pleased he actually believed Labour had adopted real socialism and it almost made him lose faith in the corruption of Labour.
      Always a silver lining.

    222. Dr Jim says:

      Jackson Carlaw this morning bombasting his way through an interview with Gary Mashall and then resorting to internet Trolling with the usual Trolling phrase
      *The SNP are not Scotland* he says, maybe a good invention of a phrase to use once or twice but it’s a stupid phrase and means nothing just like *strong and stable* or *deep and meaningful*

      On the other hand politically the SNP are indeed Scotland or they would’nt be the favoured choice of the electorate for the last eleven years or be the largest political party in Scotland with almost 130.000 members

      Maybe Jackson meant to say the Tories are barely even 23% and falling and are barely even Renfrew #fingernails

    223. Bob Mack says:


      You cover us all with your own blanket of despondency. I have faith in Nicola to do the right thing, because she is the opposite of yourself. She is a leader.
      You are in the rearguard bemoaning your lot, and telling everybody else what they should be doing, though you have no power at all to do anything.

      You can’t stand the heat,get out of the kitchen.

      Many people know that we may well have to leave the EU initially. That is just fact.

      It is people like yourself who sow dissent because it is not your chosen way of doing things. Don’t blame those who choose to follow the SNP route. We are making a calculated decision based on belief that the SNP exist for independence.

      What do you offer in return ? Nothing. For more your own political party if you feel that way, but don’t rubbish the ONLY party who offers that possibility.

      I grow sick of the constant sniping of those on the sidelines who are themselves unable to lead.

    224. Nana says:

      Morning yesindyref2
      The ‘mediocre’ musings of Mr Fry are perhaps left ignored.
      I did like your comment 🙂

      Last for today

      Theresa May’s spokesman asked what legislation needs to pass through parliament before Brexit day, replies:

      The Trade Bill,
      Agriculture Bill,
      Fisheries Bill,
      Healthcare Bill,
      Immigration Bill,
      Financial services Bill.

      Oh, and the Withdrawal Agreement and Implementation Bill.

    225. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thepnr @12:04 if they wantd a 2nd referendum its quite simples to do that, they have proof that vote leave broke the law by overspending. All they have to do is get some judges to say the referendum is null and void due to illegal practices by vote leave.
      As I said in my earlier post look at who was behind vote leave , they will get their Brexit , they have the power to make or break political leaders and May knows it. I will do a rock and say im now 250% sure that there will not be a 2nd Euro referendum and am 300% sure there will be a hard brexit.

    226. Dr Jim says:

      Possible withdrawal of witnesses in the case against Alex Salmond today although the civil service maintains it will fight its case on the process

      If that’s the case eh why? We were right even though we were wrong? or let’s keep Alex Salmond in court for a very long time so he can’t reinvolve himself in politics right now?

      We’ll know more later today

    227. Dr Jim says:

      Bloomberg says if Scotland leaves the UK they’ll take their oil with them and England will have nothing left to offer in trade with anybody

      Because we’ll take everything else we rightly own as well

    228. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Dorothy Devine

      As someone who knows a wee bit about football politics, I can tell you: the European competitions (Champions Cup and Europa League) will continue, since these already include nations outwith the EU.

      What will change will be the ability of British clubs to recruit European players. They will require to be of an agreed international standard, and to be playing regularly for their national sides – in order to qualify for a UK work permit.

      This will have serious ramifications for club recruitment. Who knows, if we have not achieved independence, we might even find Scottish players getting regular games in the English Premiership to a greater degree than at present.

    229. Dr Jim says:

      Jaguar Land Rover in perilous position

      It’s all going wrong for them

    230. Famous15 says:

      Mike,you fall into Mac’s trap. I do not protest about those who despise LITTLE Englanders,but he originally did not make that qualification.

      Mac wants us to appear as small minded anti English racists and then spread that lying thought throughout cyberspace.

      A wee test is to ask “Will that point lose us YES votes?”then more than likely they are trolling.

      Have a nice day,y’all.

      Independence is the natural and normal state for a country.

    231. Ken500 says:

      Nicola, the SNP members and supporters have been called Nazis many times, including by the sychophant lying Press.

      Call a Westminster MP a Nazi and questions are asked in the HOC and of the Police. Blatant double standards. The politicians and their supporters who call Independence supporters Nazis are now complaining with fervour. Two faced vacant coupon hypocrites.

      Sky lying again. Alex Salmond is complaining about how the Civil Service head handled retrospective matters without authority, The Civil Servant swanning about like a FM getting paid more. With sworn allegiance to a Westminster Gov of duplicity and secrecy. The Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices against the interests of the people. Keeping secrets from the Scottish Gov and the people.

      Civil servants are supposed to be servants of the people. Not fifth columnists. Mundell working against the people in Scotland. Party to killing people. Trying to build an expensive empire non constitutionally. Without authority. Not in the interest of the people but harming others. Self harming. Despicable people.

      Go get them Alex. You will win again. You know where the bodies are buried. Good luck.

    232. Dr Jim says:

      @Socrates MacSporran 9.48am

      It’ll seriously hit the smaller clubs particularly in Scotland if they do the silly wage minimum stuff

    233. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 8 January, 2019 at 6:33 am:

      ” … he believes he owns Scotland like he owns his front door and he will refuse to understand a word you say because to him you are a lesser mortal with no rights.”

      Just your average Little Englander Britnat, then Dr Jim. I had long ago assumed that about him/her/it. If I had not I would just have simply pointed out that Sir Robert Walpole, Whig PM from 1721 to 1742, is no longer Her Majesty’s Prime Minister of Her Majesty’s Government and what happened in 1742 is history.

      As is the result of the last Scottish independence referendum and, just like Robert Walpole, that referendum result has little, or no, effect upon what happens today or tomorrow in Scottish politics.

      A day is a long time in politics but this person seems to think that what Scots voters wanted in 2013/14 is, like statements cut in stone on tombstones, unchangeable in 2019/20.

      The Whig party is dead and gone – soon to be followed by Scots unionist parties in the near future. They cannot stand as English political parties in an independent Kingdom of Scotland or more than likely in a republic of Scotland.

    234. Mike says:


      Well the best way to counter that argument is to point out that it isn’t the people of England who keep us in this state of disunion but the Little Englander wannabes who refer to themselves as Brit/Scots.
      The lowest form of Uncle Tam vermin who are not fit to lick the shite of the people of England or anywhere else.
      Those with intelligence enough to understand the reality of the UK yet choose knowingly to endear themselves in support of it.

    235. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Exactly because in an Independent Scotland the opposition parties will have a decision to make in registering themselves as Scottish parties or not participating in a parliament that they’ll have to swear an oath of allegiance to and Scotland’s constitution whatever that turns out to be when that’s redrafted as soley applicable to Scotland

      Will they give up their loyalties to England? well yes they probably will wae their lips trembling all the way through the oath

    236. Iain mhor says:

      I see what you are getting at, but you have to bear in mind the entire British establishment and the media campaigned for a No vote and Leave, on both it was a narrow victory.
      That being the case, all it tells me is the British establishment and media is the minority view, whether it is Brexit or Indy. If you control not only the media and the money but are also the government and cannot lever that to return a resounding majority of your choosing, you have a deep underlying problem with your message.

    237. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      I said it tongue in cheek, but still the only thing that is certain is anything can still happen and that includes a No deal hard Brexit and a 2nd referendum. Should know soon enough.

    238. Mike says:


      A no deal hard Brexit is inevitable because both the Conservative and Labour Tories want an exit with no strings what is also inevitable is the attempt by the Scottish Government to set up a second Indyref being declined by a fascist UK state because it cant be sure of its outcome.
      The Scottish Government being fully aware of this state of affairs are going through an INEVITABLE process of UDI because realistically that was always the ONLY course Scotland ever had to end the Disunion.

    239. Ken500 says:

      Car production (and sales?) are down 25%.

      The Tory recession and decline gathering pace. They do it every time. Thatcher unemployment 18%, interest rates 17% and inflation 25%. Riots, violences and civil disorder.

      The Tories have cut Welfare £3Billion a year for six years. ‘Austerity’. £18Billion. Sanctioning and starving people. Totally unecessary.

      The UK Tax revenues have gone up £95Billion a year and they have cut welfare £3Billion. Sanctioning and killing people. Especially the elderly. Their own voters and supporters. The Tories/unionist are in the Scottish Parliament and they plan to destroy it. 3rd rate losers maliciously trying to destroy democracy in Scotland and around the world. They are supporting proposals which would deport their own families, relations and acquaintances. Themselves. They are beyond ignorant and malicious, Total hypocrites. Breaking oaths.

      UK Tax revenues increased from £533Billion to £628Billion. A £95Billion increase. ‘Austerity’ was totally unecessary it cost more. Total Westminster mismanagement. £4Billion a year cut from NHS and £6Billion a year from education. Appalling cuts from essential services. Yet £Billions being wasted on Hinkley Point, HS2 and Trident. A total waste of public money with more feasible alternatives. A total waste of public money and appalling mismanagement.

      Scotland raises £60Billion plus in tax revenues. An increase of £4Billion. Scotland always raises more pro rata than the rest of the UK. The Westminster Gov takes it and wastes Scotland resources. Then lies about it. Westminster unionists have depopulated Scotland and used Scottish resources to fund London S/E. Destroying the Scottish and the world economy. Westminster illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. Brexit just another illegal example. They break the Law that they make, with impunity. Most of them should be in jail.

    240. Jomry says:

      Dear Breeks,
      Your extremely well expressed and thoughtful comments mark you out as one of a handful of contributors who continue to make the Wings experience a valuable and stimulating resource for me. I completely concur with the main thrust of what you say – that all attempts should be made to formally reinforce and underline Scotland’s legal personality since I believe that shared perception in the eyes of others will be increasingly important in the next few years.

      I was in Catalonia at the time of their referendum – and while I am aware that there are very real differences between the relative positions of Scotland and Catalonia, I was appalled – not only at the vicious and unacceptable behaviour of the Spanish authorities – but at the complete lack of any condemnation of these from other countries, which allowed the Spanish state to proceed unhindered. Indeed, there is virtually no support from other EU countries to right the injustices that are still being meted out to political prisoners there.

      I put much of this down to the fact that Catalonia’s constitutional position is unclear in the eyes of many other countries and its effort to define itself as a culturally and historicallly distinct entity have fallen on deaf ears. I am sure that I will be reminded that Scotland’s position is different as one of two legal entities which together formed the treaty of Union – and that the Scottish people are sovereign (declaration of Arbroath etc). Granted.

      But every effort should be made to have these fundamental points recognised by a current authority (ECJ as you suggest) so the international community is in no doubt about Scotland’s legitimacy. You will recall the argument, put forward by our consular general among others, that Scotland as an entity disappeared with the act of Union – and there is little doubt that this argument will be raised again. And it is not impossible that other EU countries would prefer to look the other way and write it off as an internal matter requiring internal settlement.

      International recognition of Scottish sovereignty and legal personality through judgements in the European court, would ensure that such arguments have no traction.

      I am no legal or constitutional expert, but like you, I am frustrated that the SNP does not seem to be encouraging moves and n this direction. I am, and remain an SNP member, but I do not regard it as above criticism. It may be that the action you propose has been considered and that there are good reasons not to proceed – but it would be useful to know. And I regard your suggestions for action as a positive and constructive contribution which I hope will be heeded.

      In this connection, can I ask whether you have actually put forward your suggestion directly to appropriate members of the SNP – perhaps individuals who were party to the last ECJ foray (Joanna Cherry?). It would be interesting to get their response.

    241. I find it fascinating watching as the British nationalists arguments are becoming increasingly desperate and more ludicrous.

      One Brexiteer – I’m assuming he’s a Tory- in a letter to one of our local newspapers’, blames the EU for the privatisation of the railways in the UK.

    242. jfngw says:


      There is no such thing as complete independence, countries are restricted by trade deals, exchange rates, defence agreements plus many more limitations. It will be the same after Brexit, the only difference is you are doing trade deals for a market of 60m rather than over 400m, the deluded believe this makes them more attractive.

      I vote yes not because of the word independence but democracy, I simple believe a country should be governed by the parties they voted for. This has only happened for 40% of my lifetime in Scotland, I want this to be 100%.

      Remaining in the EU gives Scotland the negotiating power of the 400m, much better prospect than 5m. It means you need to stick to EU regs but in my opinion a price worth paying. A much better option than the current UK union, we would get the government we voted for and more say in the EU than the UK (or the EU as UK members).

    243. Ken500 says:

      The IndyRef and EURef were conducted illegally. All electoral Laws were broken. Totally illegal donations and gerrymandering. The unionist Parties break electoral Law with impunity. They are the most despicable people. They lie, cheat and act maliciously.

      Contemptible people. They do not honour democracy in any way shape or form, but manipulate the people. They break Laws and Oaths constantly. Not honourable people. Illegal wars, fraud and tax evasion. Extremely malicious people harming millions of people. Telling lies and wasting £Billions/Trns, which could be better spent. If it was not for their ignorance, conceit and incompetence. Bombing the world to bits and destroying the economy. Brexit another example of self harming and harming others. Monstrous.

    244. call me dave says:

      Radio shortbread asking the public how to run the railways in Scotland and wouldn’t nationalisation be good.

      Yesterday both labour and Tory spokespersons were on getting interviewed about the same and …er..didn’t ask themwhat they would do. 🙁

      The ‘pundits’ still apparently don’t know that to nationalise the railways is not yet possible as the actual railtrack is a reserved matter.

      It’s a stitch up folks by the collective unionist coalition with BBC pulling all the strings. Not a funny old world!

    245. Ken500 says:

      Catalonia voted NO to a Referendum and Independence. That affected the outcome of which they were well aware.

      Scotland and Catalonia situation are completely different. Utterly and completely. Not to be constantly confused. Another attempt of diversion abd distraction.

    246. Ken500 says:

      Two e-mails went unanswered which led to condemnation of the SNP. Petty? In the grand scheme of things. Self harming. Rise about it. Let it go. Let it go. Feel much better. Things will get much better. Simple really.

    247. Jomry says:

      I note the comments previously from D McEwan Hill re the “pulling” of the Richard Leonard rail story last night. However, the story disappeared from the visual media platforms (website and TV ) where the discrepancy between the importance of the item and the “crowds” turning up is easily revealed. But the radio broadcasts through the day continued to headline this – and we have the Call Kaye programme this morning feeding into the planned agenda.

    248. Gerry says:

      O/T looks like the AS case might get dealt with today due to prior contact between investigating officers and the alleged victims, which points towards the encouraging of those alleged victims to bring the case by those who ended up investigating it.

      Salmond will win big from this publicity wise.

      BBC heavily playing the supposed no lose gamble of Salmond Vs Scotgov angle.

    249. mac says:

      Famous 15 is a fruit loop….


    250. mike cassidy says:

      Lenny Hartley 9.41

      If you insist on doing a rock

      and I’m not sure your doctor would recommend it

      then you’ll have to claim you are 2640% sure there will not be a 2nd Euro referendum

      and (2640 + HYUFD)% sure there will be a hard brexit.

    251. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Salmond wins

      The BBC spins but can’t get away with not having to admit it was indeed all a stitch up but with the usual confusing blethers for their fans

    252. Giving Goose says:


      Where can we follow and get updates on the AS case?


    253. Thepnr says:

      Scottish government admits Salmond inquiry failure

    254. Ken500 says:

      The Alex Salmond allegations are a complete farce. A Westminster unionist disgrace. Duplicity and lies. Hope he sues them. The lot of them including the Press for publicising lies and conjecture. Heresay not allowed in Court under Scottish Law.

      Go get them tiger. Including Clark/Chapman etc. Damaging industries and people. Multimillionaires wasting public money and getting subsidies. The imbeciles. The conceited ‘Salmond slayer’. Not. Malicious, dishonourable people. Breaking oaths and laws. Cheating and lying. Letting down constituents with incompetence and lies. Disgraceful people.

    255. Ken500 says:

      Hurray. Has Alex won? The best news in ages. Brilliant. Sue the psycho bastards. Every single one. Make them pay. Go get them.

    256. Gerry says:

      @goose, it’s over. Wasn’t streamed but there were cameras in the court so the footage is out there. They wouldn’t let AS’s team see the folder and the judge is deciding whether or not to retain it. I don’t think they’ll get it, but if they do AS will run riot with it.

    257. Dr Jim says:

      So without the support of the civil service will the complainants continue with the case or will they withdraw

      Dead hard question that, Oooh I wonder, Hmmm

    258. Robert Kerr says:

      Anent the AS case.

      NS signed off the procedure.

      How can any politician/lawmaker be happy with retrospective legislation/procedures?

      Both AS and NS know it was a stitch-up by the Establishment.

      Interesting times indeed.

    259. Jomry says:

      You seem to find my post a distraction. Fair enough. I generally find many of the facts you provide in your scattergun approach useful and interesting. However, you need to read posts carefully before dismissing them as diversive.

      I was very careful to state that the situations between Catalonia and Scotland are very different. However, international recognition is essential for any future Independent Scotland. We may in the future be in a situation where we have to stage a referendum in Scotland without an article 50 – that is without an agreement that the result of the referendum will be recognised and acted on by both parties.

      In such an event, we will require international recognition of our status. If this is being disputed, we cannot assume that the international community will fall in line with our aspirations. My reason for bringing up Catalonia was to illustrate that even in situations where there is very clear injustice (jailing and prolonged imprisonment of political prisoners which few would condone) most of the international community prefer to remain silent and write it off as an internal matter.

      The purpose of bringing issues to the ECJ is to underline the sovereignty of the Scottish position and have this recognised by the EU institutions in advance to cement the case for international recognition. How can this be counterproductive?

      You may regard my post and that of others along these lines as a distraction, but please do NOT write it off as diversive.

    260. mike cassidy says:

      How soon before we get

      Scottish Government deliberately mishandled Salmond case so it would be judged illegal.

    261. Giving Goose says:



      It would be very interesting if someone who understands the process (or lack of it) could summarise in simple terms what happened with the AS case.

      It looks like an attempted smear on AS.

      Can someone put the events (with no Unionist lies/spin) into context?

    262. Dr Jim says:

      Section 30 order an acceptance of legal recognition by both sides as to the result of a referendum

      However denial of a section 30 order in no way negates the Scottish parliament’s right to have a referendum on anything they choose

      UN articles support all peoples inalienable rights to Independence to which the UK are signatory and as the UK is still a member state of the EU and subject to the ECJ it could be that this might be the way of ratifying the result of such a referendum, who knows…

      We shall see but it’s all a big secret at the moment on how it’s going to be done

    263. Doug_Bryce says:

      > It looks like an attempted smear on AS


      This court case was about the procedure used against Alex Salmond (rather than the allegations themselves : however so far no charges have been pressed by Police. Without civil service backing I am guessing charges will be dropped?)

      The obvious question in my mind is who in civil service leaked these allegations to tabloids ? The Daily Record could only have run such a story safe in knowledge that no charges would ever be pressed (otherwise they would have been in clear contempt of court).

      A clear smear.
      Salmond is going rightly have a field day with this result.

    264. Doug_Bryce says:

      Also : when the press say Scottish government in this case they actually mean UK civil service (not SNP!).

      It was a clear smear. One thing they really fear is Alex Salmond being re-elected to Westminster.

    265. Gerry says:

      @goose, I will try. The complainers against AS were approached by the investigating officer, and today AS’s team argued that they were given considerable material assistance in bringing the complaint.
      So basically the same people who investigated were responsible for encouraging the complaint. This means that Leslie Evans has broken civil service guidelines by conflicting her interests, and to my mind will have to go, and go quickly. Her position is entirely untennable.

      This case outs her as a Whitehall stooge within the Scottish govt and the ramifications could be massive in terms of AS now having enough ammo to take down some serious heads at Whitehall. He’ll have to keep it on simmer for now, but I would be shocked if the complainers were now to continue with the complaint in light of today’s finding.

    266. Dr Jim says:

      @mike cassidy 11.26am

      Remember Mike there are two Scottish governments, the one we elect at Holyrood and the civil service devolved to handle Scotlands affairs but only under policy direction from Holyrood but that’ll change post Independence to total control from Holyrood just the same as Westminster has over its civil service and ours at the moment

      Complicated pile of mince designed by Westminster for Westminster and another reason to be Independent

    267. Nana says:

      Mr Clancy, speaking for Alex Salmond, says govt investigating officer’s notes include evidence of them “assisting the complainers” and strays into realm of “giving them encouragement”

      Scottish Govt Permanent Secretary apologises after conceding court case. Could cost half a million in legal fees

    268. Gary45% says:

      Great news on Mr Salmond, now its time to sue them, but imagine if he gave the settlement to a food bank, and someone choked on food supplied by the money.
      Is it just me or would the media try and accuse him of murder? I don’t think the establishment media would sink to those depths would they???
      Non story from the start, since this non story broke, how many innocent people have the Tories killed??
      Now THAT’S a story.

    269. call me dave says:

      Jings! Good first step for AS in court case.

      Aye right! 🙂 BBC quotes:

      Speaking after the case was resolved, the Scottish government’s most senior civil servant, Leslie Evans, said she wanted to “apologise to all involved for the failure in the proper application of this one particular part of the procedure”.

      But she insisted: “There is nothing to suggest that the investigating officer did not conduct their duties in an impartial way.

      “Unfortunately, the interactions with the complainants in advance of the complaints being made meant that the process was flawed, however impartially and fairly the investigating officer conducted the investigation.”

    270. Alex Salmond has just won his case. Senior Scootish Civil Servant has apologised that procedures were not flowed properly but has suggested that the Scottish government should go ahead and re-investigate pending the outcome of the ongoing police enquiry – clearly a strategy to try and keep Alex off the political treadmill for as long as possible.

      Wonder how BBC and Misreporting Scotland will present it to the Scottish public???

      Ms Evans stressed that it was “right and proper that these complaints were investigated”, and that the “procedural flaw in the investigation does not have implications, one way or the other, for the substance of the complaints or the credibility of the complainers”.
      And she said it was open to the Scottish government to re-investigate the complaints, adding that “subject to the views of the complainants, it would be our intention to consider this”.
      But Ms Evans said this would “only be once ongoing police inquiries have concluded”.

      Is that not double jeopardy if they re-investigate the complaints, also, after all the bad publicity, can it be a fair investigation…

      Alex should go take them all to the cleaners – would make a fine chest for indy funding – only kidding! – give it to charity.

    271. Gary45% says:

      I meant to add, could someone please post a picture of the “Burd” grimacing on Reporting Shortbread tonight. If she has to cover this story, her coupon will be imploding.
      I don’t watch the BBC as I don’t have a licence, hence a wee picture would be nice.

    272. Jomry says:

      Thanks Dr Jim. I meant a “section 30 order (not section 50- getting my referendums mixed up)

    273. Nana says:

      Alex Salmond says he’s “deeply troubled” by leaks during this complaints process. “Deliberate and malicious” confidentiality breaches “undermine the whole process”

      Alex Salmond says he’s “delighted” with the Scottish government’s “abject surrender” in the judicial review. Repeats that Leslie Evans should consider her position.

    274. Abulhaq says:

      There are many wishing that Salmond be permanently removed from Scottish political life. Some may describe themselves as Scottish nationalists. The possibility of a common interest hook-up between intelligence agencies of the British state and the latter would not be implausible. Infiltration of ‘subversive organisations’ to find exploitable weaknesses is what the MI sector does.
      The Scottish Government has rightly been slapped down over its mishandling of this issue.
      There is still an ongoing police enquiry. May that too grind to an unproductive halt. We need the boldness, political insight and imagination of the likes of Salmond to shake the SNP out of this Brexit rut.
      Indyref#2? Forget it! A GE with the SNP confidently stating independence as paramount theme would be more to point.

    275. interesting reading Alex’s twitter statement. ( Thanks to Nana)

      Seems the Senior civil servant collapsed the case prior to the hearing ( if I’ve read that correctly) at a cost of several hundred thousand pounds despite being offered the opportunity to discuss out of court at less expense.

      Certain we’ll to hear that on the BBC.

      Nicola’s pack of cards is stacking up neatly now.

    276. Certain we’ll NOT hear that on the bBC – sorry typo !

    277. Nana says:

      Asked about Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond says she should focus on Scottish independence – says govt has conceded “institutional responsibility” for defeat in court today, and that lies with Leslie Evans

      On the basis of the tweets emerging from the Court of Session, the Scottish Government has conceded there was apparent bias on the part of the investigating officer involved in the Salmond complaints. This outcome leaves other issues about the process – legally – unresolved.

    278. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Want to see the panic and fear in Liam Fox’s face an’ voice when asked real questions from an interviewer about the latest brexit farce.

      Hala Gorani last night on CNN – saw it live..! 🙂

      Sorry can’t find it on Yootoob, only facebook.

    279. BBC Scotland news.

      Headlines : – mentions the Scottish Government and allegations of sexual misconduct against Alex Salmond but no outcome – (thought it was a Harrassment case)
      First Item in bulletin went on to say:
      Scottish government admitted defeat… but this will not have any bearing on the ongoing Police enquiry.

    280. mac says:

      The English Establishments’ main aim here was to smear Alex Salmond and discredit him for any up and coming IndyRef2 Campaign.

      I think they have succeeded. Because from now on the words “sexual harassment” will accompany the name of Alex Salmond. Job done !!!

      The BBC will make sure of that.

    281. Dr Jim says:

      @jomry 11.51am

      You’re not alone we all get stuff mixed up, half the time my head’s so mixed up I’ve got to check to make sure it’s facing the right way

    282. Bob Mack says:

      The statement from Leslie Evans The Permanent Sec is unbelievable.
      She admits in one line the investigation lacked impartiality, then in the next paragraph states it was totally impartial.

      She also indicated the desire to reopen another investigation.

      Lastly ,she said the case only succeeded on a technicality and that the judge dismissed Mr Salmonds remaining case. This is a blatant lie as the full case of Mr Salmond was not heard because the Government’s case fell at the first hurdle.

    283. Nana says:

      Terrific response from Derek MacKay at the finance committee, replying to a Tory clown

    284. galamcennalath says:

      Good news about AS. Vindication of his stance that the civil service screwed up the investigation. He is now calling for resignations.

      However, am I right in saying this probably means the actually allegations will be left unresolved? A much better outcome would be for a decision that there is no case of harassment to be answered. It might be left as a bad smell in the cupboard.

    285. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I would love to be a fly on the wall at the currently on-going Editorial Conferences at Pacific Quay, at 200 Renfield Street, in Glasgow; at Orchard Brae House, in Edinburgh; Albert Square, Dundee; on Lang Stracht, Aberdeen; on Anderston Quay and in Guildhall, on Queen Street in Glasgow; and at the other newspaper publishing sites.

      All those Editors, asking their great brains: “OK Guys, how can we turn this into the usual SNP Baaaddd!!! story?”

      The poor wee lambs, their heids will be burlin’; their brains scrambled.

      I can see the likes of Mr Carroll’s and Mr and Mrs Cochrane’s heid’s bursting.

      Popcorn anyone?

    286. Robert Kerr says:

      Does anyone think that the identities of the two complainants shall ever see the light of day?

      Thought not!

    287. Socrates MacSporran says:


      This Brexit and Independence clusterfuck, it has done for me. I put-in a needless apostrophe in the third last line of my last post.

      Oh! The shame.

    288. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Not a mention of the “massive ” protests outside Scotland’s railway stations in today’s media, though the BBC were actually promoting them as going to happen on the news before they were due to gather.
      BBC and Labour both permanently damaged by this farce. How long before Leonard is replaced? And by whom? And how long before somebody crosses the floor?
      Nicola on page 6 and page 11 in today’s Record and here is their editorial.

      ” It is also time for Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to take responsibility. A man who has been against things all his political life has to be for something more meaningful than the fantasy of a “jobs first Brexit”.
      Time for Labour to shape up and start providing real opposition to this farcical Government or be prepared to go down in history as being as incompetent as May.”

      Times they are a’changing.

    289. Cubby says:

      Salmond Court victory.

      This case highlights for me that there are Britnats throughout Scottish society who will lie and plot by any means to prevent Scottish independence. They have no shame. Britnats lie and they lie all the time about almost everything. Scotland is in a terrible place at present. The media, political parties and Britnats at all levels in all sectors of Scottish society collude to prevent Scottish independence by any means whatsoever. BRITNATS HAVE NO SHAME.

      It is now clear that the perm secy had meetings with the accusers to “encourage” them prior to them raising the complaints. Britnat collusion. The perm sec should resign or be sacked. I would prefer sacked as it reflects her conduct.

      The Britnat media have no shame. They are still ramping up the allegations as I write this post.

      I am pleased that I contributed to the crowd founder now just as I was pleased at the time. Britnats are plotting all the time and working with the media.

      I hope Salmond sues the Daily Record and puts it out of business. Clegg may soon be on his way to a new job in London.

    290. Bob Mack says:

      @Socrates McSporran,

      The more likely conversation would be around Mr Salmonds promise to sue any media outlet who published the inaccurate facts and the statement by Ms Evans, which most of them did. Lawyers being consulted as we speak no doubt.

      This is far from finished

    291. Reading Philip Simms account of the case on twitter – seems the person assigned to investigate had spoken at length with the complainants before the case was brought, in a way, encouraged them to complain and said civil servant was also involved in drafting the new legislation. No surprise then that the case was brought shortly after the legislation was put in place – almost as if the legislation was drafted to accommodate their complaint.

      Leslie Evans now saying that there was mistake ( which has cost the government about £500k ) but the case is still unproven and so the SG should spend even more money on trying to get the b*st*rd because that’s what WM really want to happen.

    292. admiral says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      8 January, 2019 at 12:12 pm

      All those Editors, asking their great brains: “OK Guys, how can we turn this into the usual SNP Baaaddd!!! story?”

      Story in the Guardian (by Sev, I think) already has “massive blow to Nicola Sturgeon and her government” as the meme. Also quotes the ScotGov QC about the decision having “no bearing on the veracity of the case”.

      Let’s see what they manage to concoct for tomorrow’s editions.

      Daily Mail – crowd funder for the claimants to pursue the case, anyone?

    293. Mike says:

      Yoon media still promoting the Alex Salmond case as an Alex Salmond vs the Scottish Government battle knowing full well that the protagonist Alex Salmond is fighting is the UK Government and State via the Civil Service.
      The National is showing its links to the Herald by also promoting this basic lie.
      Yoons gonna spin this as a failure of Scottish Government and they will get away with it again.

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      Farage (as in garage), is a fascist. As such, it’s an individual’s moral duty to loath him. Simples. The fact that he is English is an accident of birth and so outwith his powers of moral self-determination. However, from all sorts of perspectives (especially the wanky intellectual ones), his choice of English nationalism is simply anti-social and an attack of civil society.

    295. Cubby says:

      Salmond Court victory

      The BBC’s news stream at the bottom of its screen says:

      “Scottish government admits acting unlawfully over sexual harassment claims against former first minister Alex Salmond.”

      Typical BBC bias. Does not mention that Salmond won a court case. Does not mention it was against the civil servants. Says Scotgov is baaad – acted unlawfully. Gets to smear Salmond about sex harassment over and over again. The media are full of people that can only be accurately called scum.

    296. Petra says:

      The Alex Salmond case isn’t over yet.

      …”Mr Salmond’s case focused entirely on the fairness of the government’s procedures and will have no bearing on a separate police inquiry into the allegations, which is still ongoing.”

      …..”With the government now agreeing to pay his legal costs the money will go to good causes in Scotland and elsewhere, he said.”…

    297. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor No the vast majority of the UK establishment e.g. Cameron, Osborne, the Labour Party, the LDs, the CBI, the Times newspaper, lawyers and the City etc backed Remain in 2016 as they backed No in 2014. The UK establishment won in 2014 but lost in 2016. If Scotland does vote for independence in any Indyref2 it will be mainly to avoid a hard Brexit and rejoin the EU rather than an anti establishment campaign like 2014 or 2016

    298. red sunset says:

      The First Minister must now refuse to work with Leslie Evans. On a point of no confidence in her abilities. Maybe even trustworthiness.

      That would effectively be a sacking.

      I am very much hoping the First Minister is considering this right now.

    299. Nana says:

      @red sunset

      see below

      Nicola Sturgeon has full confidence in Leslie Evans, and the top civil servant has not offered her resignation, spokesman says. Same goes for investigating officer from the Salmond probe.

      I believe Nicola will be making a statement later in the parliament

    300. Mike says:


      That will be your rumour that nobody heeded. The Yes movement doesn’t have a leader never had one. Its a grass roots movement from ignorance to enlightenment.

    301. Merkin Scot says:

      mac: They know who they are. They are the evil ones.. lol
      mac is David Shayler and I claim my 5 pounds.

    302. Nana says:

      Before anyone jumps on Nicola, remember she is the FM and has to walk a fine line.

    303. Mike says:


      Tommy Sheridan was disliked and controversial long before he was accused of anything. His status barely changed after he was. Bit like George Galloway.
      Alex Salmond on the other hand has a statue waiting for him on the other side of Independence. A statue to replace either Donald Dewars or the Duke of Wellingtons in Edinburgh.

    304. Proud Cybernat says:

      “There were rumours doing the rounds that Alex Salmond was going to lead the YES Movement in IndyRef2…”


    305. Mike says:


      Blair Jenkins was a spokesperson for the Yes Movement. Cant have the whole movement talking at the same time on Telly now can we?
      BTW Yes Scotland was only a single part of the Yes Movement.
      Who was in charge of the No movement?

    306. Mike says:


      You don’t have a case.

    307. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate you may be trying to draw attention to the fact that the ownership and control over Scotland’s media lies outwith Scotland, but it was unnecessary to stress “English”. This suggests cultural essential-ism and is the language of exclusion. That’s bad, mk.

    308. Mike says:


      I will if you show me where and when don’t forget the evidence.

    309. Frank Gillougley says:

      And so it goes.

      Endless political spin, smears, innuendos, misinformation and lies continue…

      I am just glad for AS.

      who’ll be next, though?

    310. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Proud Cybernat,,, google it ya lazy bastard”

      I’m sometimes lazy and was definitely born a bastard – whit’s your excuse?

      Now, I’ll ask again – politely – source?

    311. Robert Kerr says:

      Blair Jenkins was the Establishment stooge, ex BBC.

      Using the F word is a sign of desperation.

    312. Mike says:


      You were unable to Google it which is why you had to make it up instead.

    313. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Again proud cybernut

      Fuckin google it

      Alas, Mac, laddie – Google isn’t a ‘source’. It’s a search engine. Perhaps, at the 3rd time of asking, I’ll get you to be a bit more precise – source please? Some time today would be good.

    314. Petra says:

      I doubt we’ll ever find out who the investigating officer is (better together pals?) but it would be interesting to ascertain if she spoke to the two complainants BEFORE they made a formal complaint.

      Smart ass Evans has now been left with egg on her face and a bill of £500,000 which will be paid by, us, taxpayers. She won’t be asked to stump up but should be asked to hightail it back to London, ASAP.

      Meanwhile the Police should be carrying out an investigation to find out who leaked information to the Media and when the dust settles Alex should take Clegg / Daily Rag et al to the cleaners.

    315. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Alex Salmond leading the next Yes Campaign has even been discussed on these very pages.”

      Then you’ll have little difficulty pointing to it. So, on you go. Let’s see it. Source please?

    316. Mike says:


      We’re discussing the issue today only because you brought it up if you brought it up on these comments before then it will have been discussed before which doesn’t make the assertion any more credible only a glaring indication of trolling.

    317. Petra

      Here is Philip Sim’s twitter account of the court case – he was in Court, sitting behind Alex Salmond

      Have copied it in case it gets deleted.
      See the third tweet – that answers your question straight away.
      Fourth tweet is actually shocking in terms of fairness.

      some of it copied below.

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Lord Pentland is on the bench and we’re off. Mr Clancy, for Alex Salmond, putting down a motion to agree an end to the case, with expenses.

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy puts to the court that the government’s handling of the case against Mr Salmond was “unlawful” because of “procedural unfairness” and that it was “tainted by apparent bias”

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy’s motion is that the case be dismissed, with the two sides agreeing. He says the government has conceded that the investigating officer in the Salmond case had “prior involvement” in the case (before being appointed)

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy says govt’s investigating officer had “significant amount of direct personal contact” with the complainers, about the substance of their complaints, “bordering on encouragement to proceed with formal complaints”. (again, this before being appointed to the case by govt)

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Documents handed over as part of this judicial review case showed up meetings between ScotGov’s investigator and the complainants ahead of their appointment to the case, counsel fr Alex Salmond says. Officer was also “actively involved” in drafting govt’s new complaints procedure

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy says the person appointed by govt to investigate the complaints against Alex Salmond “should have had no prior involvement in any aspect of the matter being raised”

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy, speaking for Alex Salmond, says govt investigating officer’s notes include evidence of them “assisting the complainers” and strays into realm of “giving them encouragement”

      Philip Sim
      Verified account

      3h3 hours ago
      Mr Clancy says the Scottish government “has conceded the illegality” of their investigating officer’s previous involvement in the Salmond case. This rendered whole process “unfair”. So he’s seeking to have the case disposed of today, rather than proceeding to next week’s hearing.

      So having established that the Civil servant collating the accusing claims acted in a biased way, with prior involvement when there should have been no prior knowledge, Leslie Evns thinks it is acceptable for the Scottish Government to re-use the biased evidence with a different name on the front of the report to try and address the ‘unfinished’ business at a later date.

      Surely the whole trial is biased and unfair to proceed therefore no re run can be held?

    318. Jack Murphy says:

      Thankyou Nana for all your links at 8am approximately.

      This one,in what is a busy thread deserves a second airing:

    319. Robert Peffers says:

      @Merkin Scot says: 8 January, 2019 at 1:00 pm:

      ” … mac: They know who they are. They are the evil ones.. lol
      mac is David Shayler and I claim my 5 pounds.”

      Nah! Either mac is Mike and Mike is mac talking to themselves. This is a common scam by such as the 77 Brigade or other British/English nationalist tactics. They have used such tactics since ever there was a Westminster Establishment. Ignore both of them, or him/her/it – they/him/her are only here to disrupt Wings or to discredit the blog. Just scroll on by or you are falling for their scam.

    320. Proud Cybernat says:

      Alex Salmond leading the yes movement was openly discussed on Wings.”

      Then you’ll be able to point to the specific thread, won’t you? So, post a link to the WoS thread this was “openly discussed”. Let’s see it? I have asked you 4 times now and still you prevaricate. If you can’t back up your statement when someone asks you to do so then do not be surprised that any further comments you offer are treated here with the derision they so richly deserve.

      Oh and ‘Cybernut’. Cute but not accurate. It’s ‘CyberNAT’ – as in a really evil, vile, sep, bastard. Do get it right!

    321. robertknight says:

      Mac …

      Don’t get fooled into thinking the “English Establishment media” exists. It doesn’t.

      The British Establishment media however very much exists, and counts a significant number of individuals who claim they’re both “Scottish AND British” in its ranks.

      While that particular list of names is long, that of those who hold a “Scottish NOT British” perspective is, well, need one say more?

      Don’t conflate England with GB/UK – leave that type of confusion for American tourists.

    322. Cubby says:


      My vote would be to replace that horrendous statue of Dewar in buchanan st. It pisses me off every time I am in the area.

    323. Proud Cybernat says:

      CyberNUT? Works for me. Still just as evil (Smiley thing).

    324. Nana says:

      You are welcome Jack and yes that one is worth highlighting again


      FM making statement to the parly at 4.30pm

    325. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana all this agro for Alex Salmond I would say emanated from good standing with Nicola & that some people were projecting his name as Leader of the Yes movement Fluffy & May have their fingerprints all over this . Alex & Nicola will put this farce aside & continue as friends & continue to work for our Independence .

      Scotland 2 Westminster britnat media Big fat ZEROOO

    326. I’m pleased that Alex Salmond the Ex-first minister has won his legal challenge over handling of sexual harassment
      I hope he goes on to clear his name

      So instead of pointless arguments among ourselves we should be concentrating our efforts on defeating our enemy British politicians and the British establishment.the

    327. call me dave says:

      Leslie Evans was appointed as Permanent Secretary to the Scottish Government on July 1, 2015. From an approved list.

      The role of Permanent Secretary to the Scottish Government is appointed on merit by the First Civil Service Commissioner in accordance with the Civil Service’s recruitment principles.

      The First Minister is invited to choose between those candidates deemed suitable for appointment.

      PS: Some background.

      The post of First Civil Service Commissioner was created in the 1800s.

      Their role is to head the Civil Service Commission which regulate appointments into the Civil Service and determines complaints raised by civil servants under the Civil Service Code.

    328. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mac @ 13:48:

      But I have better things to do with my time

      You could have fooled me, what with all your pointless disruptive wittering on here.

    329. Nana says:

      Absolutely Ronnie, Mundell will be chomping away on his beard right now. Hope he bloody well chokes on it!

    330. Big Jock says:

      Heard the spokesperson a posh English lady spouting her platitudes on the radio. When asked about Network Rail and the decaying infrastructure. She said this was a red herring, where the SNP were trying to blame someone else.

      Quite incredible when you consider that 90% of the delays are down to points failures, signal problems , rail line over crowding and landslides. You can have the best buses in the world, but if you run them on dirt roads they are shit.

      Asked if the railways should be completely devolved. The answer was no as they were better being controlled by the UK as the SG were incompetent.

      Hey guys but this is not a political stunt!

    331. Republicofscotland says:

      Let us not choose sides here between Alex Salmond and the S&G. We must hold it together and not let opinions divide us at this very crucial stage. For there’s a good possibility that indyref2 is just around the corner, we must focus on that.

      For there are those who would love to see us at each others throats over this. We mustn’t give them the satisfaction.

    332. Cubby says:

      It would appear that Evans has not carried out an investigation into who leaked the details to the Daily Record. Why not? My answer is that it would lead back to her.

      It would also appear that the case was pulled to prevent more publicity around the details of Evans bias.

      This whole episode is being revealed as a Britnat plan to split the independence movement and the Scotgov – as well as the more obvious smears against Alex Salmond and more SNP/Scotgov bad.

      I was sad to hear Sturgeon defending Evans on BBC propaganda Scotland at lunchtime today. Very sad.

      Britnats are treacherous lying barstewards that are full of deceit. No common decency. A very basic reason for independence – create a decent society with decent media and decent politicians.

    333. ronnie anderson says:

      Wha dares meddle wie me . Cmon Alex Salmond we trusted Alex 1st around in supporting his crowdfunder Im ready to support another to SUE the Daily Record & David Clegg & any others Alex sees fit to SUE .

    334. admiral says:

      mac says:
      8 January, 2019 at 1:45 pm
      Aer naw
      What is happening here, are you all taking turns???
      We usually accuse the BritNats of bullying but now it is happening on wings.
      Now Robert Puffer the site windbag has joined in.

      Mac – you’ve indulged in dishing out foul and abusive language to other posters when it suited you. Stop coming over all innocent and whining about being victimised.

    335. jfngw says:

      The establishment will see this as a great success. Either Salmond wins and they use the result to attack the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. Or Salmond loses and they think the SNP is tarnished. We can already see the MSM picking up the mantel of purveyors of the ‘facts’ as required by the establishment in Westminster.

      I doubt you will ever see reported that the Permanent Secretary is a civil servant ultimately controlled from London. I was half expecting Salmond to expose this, but would this part of his statement ever made it to air.

      I suspect the case against Salmond is now so compromised that there will never be a court case, but they will want it to run for some time to keep him out of the game.

    336. Petra says:

      Thanks for that Meg (1:36pm). Damning or what?

      ”Mr Clancy says govt’s investigating officer had “significant amount of direct personal contact” with the complainers, about the substance of their complaints, “bordering on encouragement to proceed with formal complaints”.

      (again, this before being appointed to the case by govt).”…….

      ”Documents handed over as part of this judicial review case showed up meetings between ScotGov’s investigator and the complainants ahead of their appointment to the case, counsel fr Alex Salmond says. Officer was also “actively involved” in drafting govt’s new complaints procedure.”


      Maybe No Surrender Clegg will leak the name of the investigating officer now? What about it Davie? In for a penny. In for a pound. Go the whole hog, big mouth.

    337. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I do not know, however, I suspect, given the way Westminster has over the years gone out of its way to stymie devolution as much as possible,tht the First Minister and the Scottish Government CANNOT be rid of Ms Evans.

      Hers was a UK Civil Service appointment, with the FM and the SG only allowed to select which of the UKCV’s candidates they would prefer to work with.

      It would seem, therefore, we are stuck with her, until Westminster says otherwise.

      Of course, in an independent Scotland, we would be able to get rid of any Civil Service head the then SG didn’t like, or felt they could not work with.

    338. Dan Huil says:

      High-ranking civil servants in Scotland: loyal to britnat Westminster in every way.

    339. Ken500 says:

      Don’t give energy to the trolls,

    340. geeo says:

      I would like to thank those fellow wingers who made complaints through the proper channels (to the Rev) about the obvious racist bigot called mac.

      As you may have noticed, he is now finally gone.

      I was wondering how it was taking a bit longer than usual, and turns out he knew how to hide his IP address, but not quite well enough to avoid the mighty Wings hammers !!

      Good riddence to bad rubbish.

      Hope callachan and Mike are paying attention….keep up your bigoted pish and you may be next to be sent to the hammers room…!!

      Report not respond seems the way to go.

    341. Ken500 says:

      Leslie Evans will have to resign. She has broken the Law. Her position is untenable.

      Leslie Evans swans around like she thinks she is first Minister. Unelected. She gets paid more. She is supposed to be a servant of the people. There is one FM there is no need for another. Leslie Evans has exceeded her power and responsibilities. She is not the Gov. She is a civil servant supposed to be a servant of the people. She has overstepped the mark. She has broken the Law. She will have to resign. She has acted illegally. She swans about doing nothing. Her post should be made redundant,

    342. Robert Kerr says:

      Further to the AS case.

      The Daily Record states

      “The Scottish Government staff member who investigated the complaints was an “HR professional” called Judith McKinnon.”

      The Guardian states

      “The Scottish Government put up one witness, Judith MacKinnon, its head of people advice, who has over 25 years experience in human resources.”

      There is a person by that name mentioned in the “gagged and bound case re Marine Scotland in Aberdeen.” as per a piece in the Daily Mirror dated 16th August 2018

      “The Scottish Government put up one witness, Judith MacKinnon, its head of people advice, who has over 25 years experience in human resources.”

      Another Judith MacKinnon or perhaps the same one one in January 2017 was with the Police.

      “Judith Mackinnon is currently the Head of HR Governance for the Scottish Police Authority”

      So now we have the Police investigating a politically sensitive case possibly involving “one of their own”.

      Time for some serious journalism.

      Had enough googling. Now to take my Gordon Setter her walkie.

    343. Breeks says:

      Jomry says:
      8 January, 2019 at 10:16 am

      ….. It may be that the action you propose has been considered and that there are good reasons not to proceed – but it would be useful to know. And I regard your suggestions for action as a positive and constructive contribution which I hope will be heeded.

      In this connection, can I ask whether you have actually put forward your suggestion directly to appropriate members of the SNP….

      Thank you Jomry. Personally, I would find it unbelievable that a Constitutional Test Case put before the ECJ was never considered. I am quite positive it absolutely must have been, and as you rightly suggest, perhaps there are indeed good reasons for not doing so. Perhaps too there are tactical reasons for not doing so too. – Although I am at a complete loss to figure out what those reasons might be.

      I have indeed asked for an opinion from both Joanna Cherry and Alyn Smith by email, but neither have replied.

      It would seem inconceivable that Joanna Cherry in particular would not have an extremely detailed understanding about whether Scotland should indeed follow up on the principles so recently established with the Article 50 issue. But I have no reply, so cannot say.

      To that extent, I do indeed respect the SNP’s prerogative to keep its cards close to its chest, save for one massive caveat. By a mile, the most obvious reason not to defend Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and contest our subjugation by Brexit, is a fundamental question whether the pro European Public rhetoric which opposes Brexit is actually a disingenuous smokescreen for an altogether different anti-European pro-Brexit agenda so far kept private.

      I don’t believe it is credible to suppose the SNP is positively anti Europe, but it might be the case the SNP hierarchy considers that experiencing a crushing Brexit up close and personal will be a decisive vote swinger in a democratic referendum somewhere down the line. That too, I can understand. After all, where would it leave Scotland constitutionally if it’s secures Sovereignty and Legal Personality which is disputed by the popular majority inside our own borders? An “entirely constitutional” civil war??

      What we have is a chicken and egg scenario. Are we Sovereign by definition even if only a minority supports it, or must we support Sovereignty by popular majority before we become sovereign?

      I am firmly and resolutely in the first category, that we are, and would still be sovereign even after we elected to get rid of sovereignty. We cannot elect ourselves to be unsovereign. Our Sovereignty is a self renewing birthright bestowed upon every Scottish citizen at birth. What Right has ANY misguided generation to forfeit Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty over which they are merely temporary custodian?

      The SNP however I believe consider themselves to be in the second category, an alternative doctrine which believes Scotland has indeed formally delegated Sovereignty, and before the said Sovereignty can be brought home, that first has to be the formally declared free will of the electorate. It needs a democratic majority in a referendum.

      Spoiler alert. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

      What we have are two equally legitimate perspectives, but each has a massively different bearing upon the prevailing reality. As a Nation we are divided and unsure of ourselves because we do not know how to work our own Constitution. Too much is woolly, imprecise and open to differing interpretation. That’s not the consequence of subjugation, that’s our failure as a Nation. It’s actually a direct consequence of a former generation of our sovereign ancestors screwing up our sovereign birthright! Don’t judge them, but let’s put right what they got wrong.

      Now I don’t know how we reconcile this, but I do know the clock is running out on Brexit. Brexit itself is its own Test Case because it is debatable whether it is outright unconstitutional subjugation, as some would have it, (like me), or indeed the price we must pay for our voluntary subservience to Westminster by voting No in 2014. Do you see it yet? That’s the same argument. We are divided amongst ourselves between the puritan Constitutional version of sacrosanct unalterable sovereignty, versus the predominantly “modern” view of a democratically altered and “alterable” version of our Constitutional Sovereignty – it’s not absolute anymore.

      As a Sovereign Scottish Nation, we remain divided and cancel each other out UNTIL we get our collective heads round this Constitutional Sovereignty lark, and finally work out what it ACTUALLY means – definitively!

      Here comes the sales pitch for my Puritan approach. Our Constitutional Sovereignty has the paperwork, precedence and provenance to PROVE its legitimacy. We have Scotland’s written birth certificate. We have a beginning and a middle to the story of Scotland but no end to it. We have the formal, legislative acknowledgment from our primary sovereign usurper that Westminster respects the Claim of Right, and thus respects the legitimacy of Scotland’s sovereignty being enshrined with the people. If we take our Constitutional “dogs breakfast” to a Constitutional Court, WE WIN. We took Article 50 to the ECJ under Scots Law. Scots Law HAD Legal Personality. WE WON!

      We would win again, I am sure, but for some, (and I’m looking at you SNP), this victory rings hollow as a breach of Constitutional faith. Voting NO in 2014 and bowing before Westminster can only ever be undone by us voting YES …. and it’s an open ended kind of arrangement, come Hell or high water, or Brexit, a YES vote it’s our ONLY way out. Until Scotland has a democratic majority to undo our 2014 NO vote, we are prisoners of the Union in perpetuity, and our Sovereignty will remain frozen in the Arctic for millennia if that’s what it takes.

      So where do we come together? How do we persuade the Puritans to appreciate democracy is essential, and the democrats to accept there a greater principles at stake than democracy? We are all on the same side but divided by alternative doctrines.

      We need something to shake up the stagnant impasse.

      I humbly suggest we lodge a speedy submission to the ECJ merely requesting clarity on whether Scotland could, not will, but could revoke Article 50 unilaterally. We just seek clarity… We do not thereby commit ourselves to ending the Union, or staying in Europe, or in fact doing ANYTHING without a popular democratic majority. But we DO drive a pinion through the principle that Scotland is a Sovereign Nation and we nail that principle to solid ground.

      I am not a troll. I am not anti SNP. We are all of common purpose and objective, but we waste ourselves squabbling over confused and conflicting doctrines.

      We have 80 days to put our house in order. If the ECJ will agree to deliberate whether Scotland can revoke Article 50 unilaterally, independent of Westminster, we can and must blow that fissure into a more formal Legal Personality for Scotland the Nation. That one issue alone will be pivotal, and critical for everything else that follows.

      It buys Scotland a game changing Constitutional Backstop, and that is a lifeline common to BOTH our respective doctrines.

    344. Republicofscotland says:

      There’s growing calls for Evans to do the right thing and resign.

      There are claims that the Daily Record received very detailed information of the alleged charges against Alex Salmond and that they could’ve only come from, well you get the picture.

    345. winifred mccartney says:

      How on earth can NS still have full confidence in Scottish Civil Service, if any of the reporting about speaking to complainants before redrafting the laws is in any way true the chief Civil servant should be sacked and not even allowed to resign. If there is proved to have been inherent bias in the actions taken surely the whole case falls – you cannot go backwards and undo this and then have another investigation. The whole thing is ludicrous and should never have been started.

    346. Artyhetty says:

      The Alex Salmond case made against him, stinks to high heaven of Britnat dirty tactics. It’s what they have wanted to do for years, they are vultures, going in for the kill when the time suits them.

      The corruption at Westminster, the secrecy, the criminality, even stealing food and drink at the cost of the public purse, all goes unreported, or at least is hidden in the small print.

      Scotland, the SNP, have been played like a freaking fiddle here. The Britnats are on the fiddle, always were, they will do anything to keep plundering Scotland’s abundant reources and removing Scotland’s very lucrative revenues while keeping hold of the purse strings and having all the levers of power and money at their disposal.

      Scotland, stick together, divide and rule cannot be allowed to destroy the need for and aims of being a normal independent country.

    347. geeo says:


      I have emailed Ms Cherry a few times and got pretty detailed reponses from her, albeit after a while (around 10 days) along with an apology for the delay (heavy volume of emails quoted as reason).

      Not sure how long you have waited, but worth keeping going with requests, as your latest inquiry might pop to the top of the reading list ?

    348. Ghillie says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 1.15 pm

      Well said.

      Been really enjoying your links =)

    349. Dan Huil says:

      @winifred mccartney 2:50pm and Artyhetty 2:52pm

      Both spot on. And we shouldn’t forget Ms Evans, the Permanent Secretary, is the wife of the former MI5 chief, Lord Evans.

    350. dakk says:

      After giving extensive coverage of Alex Salmond going into court for his case Sky News have very quickly completely buried the outcome of said court case.

      You would have thought the outcome of the case would be more informative and newsworthy to their viewers than Salmond going into court.

      Not if you are part of the britnat propaganda apparatus it isn’t.

    351. Cubby says:

      ronnie anderson@2.13 pm

      Great shout. Give the current money to a charity as promised and have another fundraiser to sue the barstewards. I hope he goes for it. It might also have the benefit of forcing out who leaked the info. Unless of course Clegg didn’t just make it up.

      How the hell anyone thinks there can be a criminal trial after Clegg publishing all his crap is beyond me. I don’t think there ever was an intention of a trial happening – just drag out the smears for as long as possible.

    352. dakk says:

      Oops,they have just mentioned it after an hour of waiting.

    353. Republicofscotland says:

      Both spot on. And we shouldn’t forget Ms Evans, the Permanent Secretary, is the wife of the former MI5 chief, Lord Evans.”

      Dan Huil.

      According to this he’s not her husband.

    354. Dan Huil says:

      Quite right, Republicofscotland.

      Apologies to all.

    355. CameronB Brodie says:

      Civil servants aren’t immune to political bias and the Civil Service Code of Conduct is about as effective as a chocolate teapot (see Whitehall v Scotland, 2014).

    356. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks. I hope I’m not overdoing things but I appear to be getting up to speed. 🙂

    357. Gerry says:

      Evan’s husband works in the music industry.

    358. Liz g says:

      geeo @ 2.42
      Well said.. I knew the Rev would catch up with him eventually.
      Don’t respond report is what we are asked to do, and it has the added benefit of demonstrating to any that point to the idiots as typical,that Wing’s will deal with nasty posters!

    359. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Kerr

      I found your post to be very interesting particularly this:

      Another Judith MacKinnon or perhaps the same one one in January 2017 was with the Police.

      “Judith Mackinnon is currently the Head of HR Governance for the Scottish Police Authority”

      So now we have the Police investigating a politically sensitive case possibly involving “one of their own”.

      Time for some serious journalism.

      This whole sorry saga has a while to run yet, I’d wager.

    360. Ken500 says:

      Leslie Evans is married to a YES supporter/activist (SNP member?). Musician?

      Partners do not always agree or hold the same views. A complete embarrassment.

      A civil servant who totally overstepped the line and acted illegally. The one that keeled over did as well. In fact there are a list of civil servants who crossed the line of impartiality and broke the Law. They had to resign or are held in contempt. Royalty, broadcasters do it too. Reneged on responsibilities and act illegally. To waste public money like there is no tomorrow. They often get ‘honours! for breaking the Law. The corrupt, dishonest Westminster system of abuse and secrecy. .

    361. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat

      Now that you have finished your argy bargy with your mac I will repeat my request to remove me from your list. I don’t like lists and I don’t like being on people’s lists. If you want to “eyeball” me I will meet you at the counting house tomorrow at Ipm and you can buy me a pint and do all the eyeballing you want while I enjoy my drink. A genuine offer. It is of course an easy venue for me as I live in Glasgow.

    362. geeo says:


      The rev also asked that, when reporting a post, please also link to the topic in which the offending/offensive post appears as it makes it easier for him to find.

    363. mike cassidy says:

      Parliament’s latest attempts to thwart May’s ‘my deal or no deal’ strategy.

      ” The amendments do not shut down any UK government services, but they do undermine the government’s ability to pay for its spending out of taxation. ”

    364. Robert Peffers says:

      @winifred mccartney says: 8 January, 2019 at 2:50 pm:

      ” … How on earth can NS still have full confidence in Scottish Civil Service, if any of the reporting about speaking to complainants before redrafting the laws is in any way true the chief Civil servant should be sacked and not even allowed to resign.”

      Well, Winifred, that may be because there are effectively two Civil Services connected to Holyrood. One are Drafted in by Whitehall and are thus Westminster chosen and employed Civil Servants while the other lot are employed directly by the SG. The former take their orders from Westminster and the latter from Holyrood. The Scottish Office, Under the Secretary of State for Against Scotland has been building up quite a squad of the former of recent years.

      ” … If there is proved to have been inherent bias in the actions taken surely the whole case falls – you cannot go backwards and undo this and then have another investigation.”

      No you cannot but it has no bearing upon the Police Scotland investigations as the SG and/or Civil Service investigation is all about internal procedures while that of Police Scotland is about criminality.

      The former investigations would be referred to the Holyrood Executive while the latter will go to the Procurators Fiscal.

      ” … The whole thing is ludicrous and should never have been started.”

      While that is true the problem is caused because Westminster fundamentally negated the United Kingdom’s raison d’être when it divided up the two partner United Kingdom along country lines and made Westminster the de facto parliament of the country of England and thus is devolving the powers of the country of England to what Westminster sees as three dominion countries/regions of the country of England that they believe was renamed by the treaty of Union to be called the United Kingdom.

      The actual truth of that is proven by the fact that Westminster Ministries run the Country of England and Westminster uses EVEL to assure that only MPs from English constituencies can deal with country of England business.

      In short – devolution should never have been allowed to happen in the first place as it contravenes the fundamental terms of the Treaty of Union.

      However, when devolution was mooted by Westminster there was no Scottish SNP government to oppose it and the powers that be at both Westminster and in Scotland were the Labour Party who bragged that they didn’t count the election votes 0 they weighed them.

    365. Proud Cybernat says:

      “And we shouldn’t forget Ms Evans, the Permanent Secretary, is the wife of the former MI5 chief, Lord Evans.”

      This (apparently) isn’t so.

      Rather than running the domestic security service, her husband of 28 years is Derek McVay, a former member of Edinburgh punk group The Visitors who went on to produce concerts by the jazz-funk band Jamiroquai.
      He now runs a music business called Del Boy International Ltd.
      Mr McVay, 58, has also been a prominent member of the SNP’s Edinburgh Central branch.

    366. Gerry says:

      Agree wholeheartedly. One small point though…
      I believe that Whitehall provides a list of candidates for the SG to choose from rather than drafting in a specific individual. Quite sly really, as in this instance it allows people to state that Evans was selected byu the SG.

    367. Thepnr says:

      The standout sentence of the Leslie Evans statement given on the website was this:

      “All the other grounds of Mr Salmond’s challenge have been dismissed.”

      It’s remarkable that she had the gall to include an outright lie for the obvious reason that the only thing considered today was the failure of the department that she was in charge of to follow the correct procedure written by herself! She instigated the investigation and appointed the investigator.

      None of Mr Salmond’s other challenges to the procedure have been dismissed because they weren’t even considered by the court. That process was due to start next week and was allocated 4 days of the Court of Sessions time. No evidence was heard from either side so the judge had nothing to dismiss.

      Basically the QC for the “Scottish Government” (boak) walked in held his hand up and admitted Leslie Evans totally screwed this up in every possible way.

      A serious error or an attempt at arse covering by the most senior civil servant in Scotland? She is digging a deeper hole for herself and really has to go and she’d be better doing that now rather than wait on the Police closing their investigation into the alleged sexual harassment Alex Salmond has been accused of, as they will surely now do.

      That’s all that’s left, “not enough evidence” bearing in mind the original allegations were from 2013. I doubt they could ever let this go to a criminal court only to have him found NOT GUILTY and innocent of all charges. Don’t forget so far he has been charged with… NOTHING.

      Far better just to leave the doubt hanging. Then to claim, “yeah mibbe no evidence, but there’s no smoke without fire eh!”

    368. ronnie anderson says:

      On watching that video of Alex Salmond I noticed a familiar faces Tricia Marwick & i think his name is Calum Alexs former personal assistant ( he of the Lally affair ) he was very grateful to WoS posters for making arses out of the media & saving his job , its ah Funicular week with more to come .

      Am stocking up in Big Boay Pants Laughter makes wet ones LoL .

    369. Proud Cybernat says:


      The ‘problem’ with the people of Scotland’s sovereignty is that, although it belongs to us and we possess it, we are ‘pooling’ it with the sovereignty of another nation that is 10 times the size of us and, without any right of veto to protect our own national interests, outvotes us every time. We need to demand a right of Veto at WM to protect Scottish national interests or ‘unpool’ our sovereignty through Indy.

    370. ronnie anderson says:

      Nicolas making her statement to Parliament at 16.30

    371. Shinty says:

      Ronnie Anderson @ 2.13pm

      Agree, count me in. Sue the knickers off them Alex.

    372. Tom Busza says:


      Serco loses asylum accommodation contract for Scotland

      (Sorry, I know it’s a beeb link)

    373. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Scotland’s popular sovereignty. Though Scots have yet to enjoy the improvement in democracy that such a constitutional arrangement makes possible, it is regarded as the pinnacle of constitutional form. Remember, Britain is not One Nation, Scottish and English law are different, and “parliamentary sovereignty” is unable to guarantee universal rights without a written constitution. Britain’s constitution is ad hoc in nature and remains to be codified into one document, and so, is subsequently opaque to public scrutiny.

      Democracy in Britain is dysfunctional and access to it apparently determined through geography. Scotland did not vote to leave the EU, yet it will have its’ economic and social health undermined by English nationalism. The British constitution does not appear to provide legal protection for the human rights of Scottish residents.

      Is there any relationship between democracy and sovereignty of a country?

      Democracy simply implied popular participation. Also, the general agreement among scholars is that sovereignty lies with the people. So, how can we reconcile the two?


    374. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Jerr.
      Thanks for the name – Judith McKinnon.

      I know that name, I’ll try to remember the context – but probably won’t manage it.

      A quick google shows she also is or has been “Judith is the Chair of Venture Scotland. In her day job she is Head of HR Governance for the Scottish Police Authority. Her previous post was Director of HR and Programmes for SAMH. She is also on the judging panel for the HR Network Scotland Awards


      (“The Journey lies at the heart of Venture Scotland’s work and consists of four stages which can be undertaken by young people as stand-alone modules or as a programme lasting 12 months.“)

      (Scottish Association for Mental Health)

    375. yesindyref2 says:

      Kerr! Next letter along on the keyboard. Missed again.

    376. HandandShrimp says:

      A fair few of those of an SiU persuasion will be wailing and gnashing their teeth over the judicial review. This is obviously a Brucie bonus.

      It should be noted that although Evans wrote and Nicola approved the process it was an HR professional that screwed it all up by not following the process. Alex was quite right to take the matter to review because the case was not handled according to the SG’s own guidelines. Quite what was going on in the HR department is moot. Possibly incompetence, possibly ill will. Evans will need to investigate and correct where necessary so this does not happen again. Whether anyone resigns is open to question but I doubt whether anyone will. Governments lose judicial reviews all the time.

      Unsurprisingly, with Brexit in full tilt, this all barely rates as a squirrel although partisan hacks like Severin in the Guardian are still desperately calling Squirrel because they are one trick ponies.

    377. Izzie says:

      Ooer according to Carlaw the Snp are at civil war again. I hope I don’t miss it this time I was a the hairdresser last one!

    378. Bob Mack says:

      If they are looking for the leak of the Alex Salmond story, may I suggest the most likely source is the Union officials involved. I hope they pursue whoever it is in any event.

    379. orri says:

      The only way the procedure doesn’t involve disclosing details of the complaint is if it’s decided not to proceed after the initial investigation.

      Now it’s possible that at the time of the leak that decision had yet to be take or was made.

      The step that seems to have been missed is informing the alleged offender of what’s been alleged and inviting them to give their side of things.

      There’s nothing in the procedure about demanding they participate before they know what’s going on.

      Only after that stage should the case be passed on to the Police.

      I suspect that the investigation was stalled at the decision to involve Salmond or that he wasn’t told the details and some low level grunt decided to leak in order to move things along.

    380. orri says:

      The danger with Brexit is being set in the concrete without a hope of getting out. But we really need Westminster to be set on a course not of our choosing with no way to change direction.

      Given we now know that the Remain sentiment in Scotland is still over 50% so the much promoted Tory attitude of bow to the majority hasn’t worked.

      We also know that independence support is over 50% in either May’s deal or no deal.

      The only way to save the UK is to cancel Brexit either by a Westminster vote, a Referendum or a GE and at the same time ensure that Scotland is not instrumental in that decision.

      Think of it as trying to smash jelly or something equally malleable. If you freeze it you can do it.

    381. admiral says:

      Izzie says:
      8 January, 2019 at 4:51 pm
      Ooer according to Carlaw the Snp are at civil war again. I hope I don’t miss it this time I was a the hairdresser last one!

      Obviously blind to the Tory party civil war, that has been going on for about 40 years and is still going strong.

      From the Eurosceptics who plagued Thatcher’s and Major’s administrations to the Brexiteers who plagued and plague Cameron’s and May’s administrations…

    382. Petra says:

      Thanks for the info Robert.

      @ Robert Kerr says at 2:47 pm …. ”Further to the AS case. The Daily Record states:

      “The Scottish Government staff member who investigated the complaints was an “HR professional” called Judith McKinnon.”

      Where is wee Clegg getting his information from? Did this come out in Court today? If not Police Scotland should be looking into this.

      Just waiting on him, Clegg, naming the complainants next.

    383. yesindyref2 says:

      OK I think I’ve got it dredging memory but I’m not sure so take it with a bit of caution. I think it was about the appointment of Judith McKinnon as head of something, Sturgeon’s delight at glass ceilings, usual mysoginistic comments on an article and on twitter, more sensible ones about “positive discrimination”, is it right or wrong, most missing the idea that perhaps she actually was the best candidate for whatever it was. She certainly has a good CV.

      If I’m right it means this, this is more about glass ceilings, discrimination against females, positive discrimination, a female FM who is prepared to do something about it all, some debate whether maybe she’s too ready to do so, a great morass of help me Rona in fact.

      Nothing as far as I can see about UK Civil Service, the UK estbalishment, Britnats, or MI5 considering that Leslie Evans is apparently married to an SNP member, NOT an ex-head of MI5 by the same name. After all, Evans is a very rare name in the UK as a whole – NOT – considering she’s not married to the Scottish rugby player either, let alone a whole host of Welsh rugby players or their kids.

      In other words, I’m pleased I supported Salmond’s crowdfunder with a paltry amount, but this is a big issue with potentially large ramifications and much needed debate, probably in Holyrood. It’s not a Britnat issue.

    384. Now Nicola is being roasted by the Unionist parties at Holyrood – all trying to get as much dirt as possible to stick to Nicola .

      Nicola cooly answering them with fact and procedural details.

      A gift to the media who rely on people not knowing how the Government and Civil service have separate paymaster – so they can say, again, that the SG acted unlawfully, just like they did when they drafted and voted on the Continuity bill. What a pile of chancers I hear people say…. false information is not easily removed from the memory.

      I think i read that she has to say she has confidence in the Permanent Secretary or it could be construed as ‘Constructive Dismissal’.

    385. Thepnr says:

      Up until now at least the only party proven to be guilty of anything is Leslie Evans. Who is totally guilty of incompetence in running the civil service in Scotland.

      The highest profile case ever involving the civil service in Scotland and they fail to get things right. She needs to go.

    386. O/t
      I notice that the Mayor of Ostende is worried about the New ferry company about to start up trade with his city. He this that the osrende port will to be ready for service by the end of March and does;t want to commit a lot of money preparing the port if it is all going to fall through and find he’s left with the bills.

      Dearie me, Mr. Grayling didn’t think about that one did he?

      Seems the Mayor is concerned about measures needed to prevent Immigrants using the port to get to Britain – amazed that Grayling hasn’t thought about that

    387. Thepnr says:

      Incompetence that will cost the taxpayer “hundreds of thousands of pounds”. That would have filled the shelves of a few foodbanks over Xmas.

      Raging I am that she is refusing to take responsibility for her failures and do the honourable thing. She should walk.

    388. Colin Alexander says:

      So, the UK Govt breaches the Union Treaty umpteen times and it does not end the Union. There is no “punishment” for breaking the Union.

      Presumably, if it’s broken by a party to it, it’s either like it or lump it or the game is a bogey and the Union is ended.

      What if the boot is on the other foot? eg. Scotland breaks the Treaty.

      So, part of the Union says there would be a parliament of Great Britain instead of Scotland and England Parliaments.

      If Scotland asserts it’s sovereignty and says: No, well have the Scottish Parliament back again that exercises ultimate sovereignty on behalf of Scotland.

      What then? Does UK say Union is over or accept it or what?

      It’s breaking the Union Treaty, but say a UK court upholds the treaty is broken. So what?

      There is no redress for that, is there? A UK court has no jurisdiction over a sovereign Scotland if sovereign Scotland says it doesn’t.

      There is a reason I mention it:

      If UK Govt say indyref is outwith the powers of the devolved Scottish Parliament.

      The democratically elected representatives of the sovereign people can declare the Scottish Parliament is empowered to act on behalf of the sovereign people for as long as it takes to hold indyref and can reject any UK law or UK legal ruling that says it is unlawful to hold indyref2.

      If we are sovereign we are not subject to UK law, if we say we are not.

      We can then hold elections or indyref to decide whether to dissolve the Union completely or if full indy is rejected, amend the Union whilst acting as sovereign Scotland.

      It’s a constitutional dogs breakfast of course, but when you are sovereign you can do what you want, until things are sorted out, such as a more permanent arrangement for Scotland such as full permanent independence.

    389. yesindyref2 says:

      Not is it an SNPbad or “SNP civil war” issue, it’s the eternal battle of the sexes, and me and the boss indoors are not taking sides, LOL 😎

    390. stu mac says:

      @K1 says:
      7 January, 2019 at 7:29 pm
      So nice of the BBC to manufacture our news for us like this.

      I’ve seen it said we need control of BBC Scotland devolved. But unless there was a clear out of the current mob who run it (not just for the bias in news but the mainly poor quality of other output) I wouldn’t go near it. We need the BBC got rid of and a new national broadcaster with new, non-partisan people in charge. Also people with some ambition to produce good quality output in all fields. It’s not just a matter of money. Give the right people the same money and you’ll get better quality in news, documentary and drama.

    391. Thepnr says:

      Look at the state of Coco “quick, change the subject” LOL

    392. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 17:02,

      You certainly can’t avoid the suspicion that someone was pushing an agenda here. But once the ball started rolling, the SG had no choice but to take it wherever it went. Which was badly handled, as events have proved. Maybe with anyone else they might have got away with it, but not with AS. I wonder at what point someone thought “oh shit, this is coming unstuck”. No wonder the Civil Service were desperately trying to keep the background details hidden. And now it’s cost us all a cool half mil that could have been far better spent. Someone should take responsibility for that.

      I know nothing about it, but my guess is that the police investigation will eventually fizzle for lack of anything significant.

      You were right in an earlier posting though, the most troubling aspect of this by far is the leak to the DR. That seems to me prima facie evidence of ill-will at best, and political machinations at worst. Politicos like Carlaw would be wise to stay well away from mixing it, before, during or after the fact.

      There should certainly be an investigation into this leak. Otherwise how can “lessons” properly “be learnt”?

    393. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah hope that civil war of the SNP gets gon soon , ah hear telt there’s a big order fur cream rings been placed an ah hiv ah big net I’l be jumping aboot like Catchagoogoo wie ma net yumyum .

    394. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t think there’s any doubt Evans should resign, if not for the leak, for leaving it to the last minute and the maximum waste of money.

      But reading the comments on the Herald about it, there’s the inevitable “SNP bad” comments, and the inevitable “Britnat” comments, but also cross-party, cross-Indy ones. Which is quite encouraging in a way. The constitutional question isn’t the only problem Scotland has 🙂

    395. Nana says:

      Salmond wins the case against British permanent secretary to the Scottish government.

    396. geeo says:

      In other news….HEATHROW is shut down by A DRONE !!!

      Imagine that..who knew that was coming…?

    397. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Dearie me, Mr. Grayling didn’t think about that one did he?”

      This is why I’m amazed that Brexit has gotten this far. Where are the costed plans approved by the Treasury? More evidence that the Civil Service Code of Conduct is not up to the task? Apparently, Whitehall is no longer following due procedural process. That smells of fascism to me.

    398. Capella says:

      @ geeo – thx for the update re the nasty racist. We may enjoy a short respite from that source although it is only a matter of time before the next incarnation emerges. But if we all act promptly we will get some peace.

    399. CameronB Brodie says:

      Providing a Brexit budget does not constitute adequate planning.

    400. Nana says:


    401. Tinto Chiel says:

      Not another SNP civil war, surely? I’ve only just got the trifle stains out my Speedos.

      Never again!

    402. R.J.Sutherland

      from what I have read this afternoon, it seems that the ‘cock up’ only came to light in December ‘when papers were being prepared for the case.’

      In other words, Ms Evans has known for the entire Christmas recess that she was going to collapse the case today .

      Nicola apparently knew nothing – this is part of the procedure of the investigation that she should not know anything- until almost the 11th hour at which point she agreed to the most Senior Civil servant’s decision to collapse the case on a technicality.

      Who has made the mistake – the most Senior Civil Servant in Scotland and who should fall on her sword? Why Ms. Evans but not until she has created the smelliest mess for the S Gov.

    403. yesindyref2 says:

      Aleady here as RP says. Won’t be long before the tagteam then gets a new member. Just add my name to your list whenever you report it, you seem to have the magic touch with the Rev 🙂

    404. Ouch ! Craig murray not pulling any punches on that posting!!!!

      Amazing to have that understanding of how the civil service works and how it should now move forward.

      Ouch !

    405. Iain mhor says:

      @HYUFD 12:46pm
      An establishment backed pro-remain is news to me. I must be looking in the wrong archives. That a referendum on it was called at all pretty much gives the lie to that, even before I don the pince-nez and flip open the files.
      Your premise that the preference in Scotland “was” for Union + EU is on stronger ground. However, to be borne in mind is that Scotland has many interests, the “Union” is only an ethereal facet and ‘was’ is the operative word.

      I think your sweeping statement presuming to know the reasons why Scotland may vote for independence is on shakier ground verging on the petulant and condescending. There are many reasons people back Independence, membership of the EU is merely one element. However, stack against several elements and what I infer from your posts – that Scotland prefers Union above all – becomes a weak position. Scotland by a great majority, supports its devolved parliament, some form of European integration and no Conservative rule. As the Union has attacked with impunity, the first two preferences and imposes in near perpetuity the third, the Union is the weakened option.

      As has been posited in a few places; should Scotland become independent then look not to Scotland’s desire to leave but to the machinery which drove it out – that appears a fairer position to take no? But to imply that Scotland loves and is wedded to a Union and self identifies as “British” uber-alles (or it damn well should) then, no, It never has, that idea is the age old error. As for the petulant suggestion, that if Scotland leaves the Union its just running to the EU instead. Scotland is so shite it can’t vote Indy for its own sake. That’s poor stuff man, really poor and should be beneath you.

      There’s really only so much abuse which can be taken.
      It has been a terrible miscalculation that Scotland would forgive all.
      “Nemo me impune lacessit” is right there in the Arms.

      *Yeah, yeah don’t feed the trolls etc, etc.

    406. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – not me this time! plenty of others had complained. I would have if it continued any longer. Geeo is right, the way to go is to email stu with copies of the offending statements, date and time.
      It helps if you have the backing of others.

    407. Marie Clark says:

      Congratulations Alex. I’m so pleased for you that you’ve won, and deservedly so.

      Lesley Evans and Judith MacKinnon, should not be allowed to resign, they should be sacked immediately. This whole contrived hoo ha stinks to high heavens. I don’t think that it’s finished yet but I may be wrong.

      I was pleased to contribute to the fundraiser for Alex Salmond’s court action, and will gladly do so again if needs it.Welcome back, independence will need your contribution.

    408. Colin Alexander says:


      Here’s was me discussing Scottish sovereignty and the exercising of democratic freedom to achieve independence and you would prefer I talk about the UK Colonial Scottish Govt. So be it.

      The Colonial Scottish Govt abuses human rights. It’s only rarely they don’t get away with it, as only the likes of Alex Salmond has the deep pockets, or backers with deep pockets, to take on the Scot Govt when it abuses Scots’ human rights.

      Justice Secretary should be re-titled: Justice Secretary For Those That Can Afford To Buy Justice.

      It takes Alex Salmond, backed by £100 grand to prove the Scottish Govt are not the perfect govt that the worshippers on Wings makes out. But still the worshippers are in denial. Their god remains infallible, it must be the angels who sinned.

      The people are sovereign, including Alex Salmond. He deserved a fair complaint process. So do thousands of others that never get one because they can’t afford to take on the Scottish Establishment. Tell the Scottish Govt of injustice and you will be told take it to their Establishment poodle: The SPSO.

      You will note AS never wasted a second of his time with the SPSO despite that being the Scottish Govt’s signposted route to go for complaints of maladministration. It’s “good enough” for the Scottish plebs,including under the time when he was FM, but not good enough for big Eck. He wanted REAL justice, so gave the SPSO a huge bodyswerve.

      To emphasise: I am talking about the Colonial Scottish Govt, not the SNP or independence.

      The Public Services complaints process does not deliver justice – the SPSO, created by a Labour administration, and continued by Alex Salmond’s and subsequent Scottish Govts are unfit for purpose.

      Congratulations Alex Salmond on obtaining justice. Such a shame you never abolished the SPSO, and replaced it with a real impartial investigative body whose purpose should be to defend the public from public service abuses. Instead, just like in England, it’s credit card justice for those that can afford it, people like Alex Salmond.

    409. geeo says:


      I reported several of the worse comments by mac.

      Took longer to get rid of him as he was using a ‘dynamic IP’ but oor Rev has other bows on his hammers (eh!) and despatched he was.

      Message here is that if at first you report the bigots and abusers, and nothing seems to happen, keep reporting them, as the boss man is clearly on it when alerted to them.

      It sends a message to the other rats infecting the place, we will not argue or engage you, we will exterminate you…

      Ooww…Hammer Time !!!

    410. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks, I should have put both your names on my post.

    411. geeo says:

      Coco is seething his British Nationist ‘impartial’ chums in the UK Civil Service have been outed as colluding chancing gits, not fit for purpose.

      An honest headline in the media would be “uk civil service chief caught fabricating evidence in Alex Salmond case” with a sub-heading: “Did UK Civil Servant, leslie evans leak legally sensitive documents to the media to try prejudice a potential future case against alex salmond ?

      Then there is why the Daily Record did not do fact checks on this story ?

      If the WM establishment can blatantly and shamelessly, collude against the ex FM of Scotland, what are they doing, and willing to do, to the people of Scotland against our will ?

      Anyone in Scotland wishing to ask themselves THAT question honestly, will be a Yes voter pretty shortly after.

      Except coco, who is utterly seething today. Har har…giruy !!

    412. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: the likes of “mac”.

      If you find that you are offended/disturbed by a commenter’s input, like swearing at other commenters, expressing xenophobic sentiments, etc, the thing to do is contact Rev Stu (The ‘Contact’ tab is at the top of every page) and provide him with the earliest current link to comments that you find not WOS material.
      The link can be obtained by right-clicking on the comment’s date stamp at the bottom of the comment, then selecting ‘copy link location’. Then you paste that link into your message to Rev Stu.

      I don’t think it’s a good idea to flag up your intention on the page – just do it.

    413. HYUFD says:

      Iain Muir The majority of the biggest businesses, academia, the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet, the establishment house paper the Times, BBC journalists, lawyers, the City and Civil Servants voted for and backed Remain. If that is not the UK establishment then what is? I have also yet to see a poll giving Yes to independence in Scotland the lead if the UK votes to Remain in the EU. The only Yes leads come with Brexit, especially No Deal

    414. Colin Alexander says:


      It’s the UK Civil Service because the Scottish Govt is NOT the Scottish Govt; it’s the UK’s Colonial Govt for Scotland, administered by the SNP on behalf of the UK state.

      Mr Salmond liked to pretend it was something better than it was, just like he pretended the SPSO was a service that provides impartial justice for ordinary members of the public.

      An SPSO, when Mr Salmond suffered injustice, would not touch with a barge pole.

      Seething? I’m delighted the truth is coming out about how crap the Colonial Govt for Scotland is. Whether it’s the SNP runs it our not, it will always be crap, it’s UK Govt.

      Scotland needs a real govt that’s answerable to the people of Scotland, not one based on the UK model with pretend ombudsman and pretend democracy.

    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s an unsupported claim Toryboy, the Establishment is split over Brexit. Shame on you, you’re educated and have a social responsibility. Or do you place no value on truth and honesty?

      ‘Things were better in the past’: Brexit and the Westminster fallacy of democratic nostalgia

      Dave Richards and Martin Smith examine why Brexiteers want to ‘take back control’ and how this desire is not only paradoxical but part of a ‘democratic nostalgia’ which could further exacerbate political disengagement.

      The Brexit poll

      We canvassed psychologically-informed opinion on the EU Referendum result and what happens next.

      Attribute substitution and the opacity of the referendum

      Decision psychology uses the concept of attribute substitution to describe a particular phenomenon in decision making and decision error. This is the phenomenon where an individual replaces a complex question with a simple one and answers the simple one, rather than engaging with the complexity of the actual question.

      Nick Chater from Warwick Business School’s decision science group has very entertainingly applied this to the way the competence of the England manager is addressed in sports commentary. However, in the context of the referendum this predicable cognitive process is more serious in its consequences. The nature of the referendum question invited this cognitive substitution en masse, and the multiple simple questions that have been substituted for the one posed in the referendum have made manifest alarming fractures in our society.

      Does Brexit mean the end for Critical Management Studies in Britain?

      Christopher Grey, Royal Holloway, University of London
      Paper accepted for publication in Organization
      Post-review, pre-publication version for Open Access deposit

      In this essay I will argue that Brexit – the vote for Britain to leave the European Union – has enacted a fundamental shift in British politics and society which poses significant challenges for Critical Management Studies (CMS) in Britain, and possibly even marks its death knell. It is intended as a provocation to debate and as such many will strongly disagree, or at least feel uncomfortable, with it. Perhaps that disagreement will, even, be a springboard for CMS academics and activists to respond to Brexit in ways I have not anticipated and thereby prove me wrong in my diagnosis.

    416. jezza says:

      So glad Alex is free to concentrate on Indyref2

    417. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s pretty obvious you’re a conceited a-hole, so here’s a wee snippet from my last lint. Remember kid, Britain is not One Nation and England does not own Scotland.

      Does Brexit mean the end for Critical Management Studies in Britain?

      I plainly don’t, and couldn’t, mean by that that CMS as a body of literature or as a collection of individuals who may produce, read or identify with that literature all share a common set of political views. Nor do I mean to imply that CMS has articulated a position as regards Brexit specifically, or even that it has ever much interested itself in or been engaged with the EU as a political institution. Instead I mean (and will discuss later) that CMS has, again in general, a particular kind of liberal-left orientation which is critical of neo-liberal globalization, managerialism, consumerism, inequality and elites, and corporate domination whilst being sympathetic to feminism, environmentalism, post-colonialism, gay rights, anti-racism, labour and liberation movements.

      And although any generalization of this kind can be questioned, what I think is unquestionable is that there is no existing statement of the politics of CMS that endorses, let alone makes central, the nationalist politics of the Brexit campaign (whether that nationalism took the form of anti-immigration sentiment or of the more abstract notion of national sovereignty embedded in the core Brexit slogan of ‘taking back control’).

    418. Rock says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:41 am

      “I will do a rock and say im now 250% sure that there will not be a 2nd Euro referendum and am 300% sure there will be a hard brexit.”

      For the record, I am never more than 100% sure of anything.

    419. Rock says:

      Well done Alex Salmond.

      Where does this leave Nicola who had shown 100% support for the dishonest Unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond?

      Rock (22nd December 2018 – “Satan’s Little Helper”):

      “Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

    420. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s an opinion. Any evidence to support it?

    421. Thepnr says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Good question 🙂

    422. jezza says:

      Rock of Gibraltar

    423. geeo says:

      Coco still seetbing i see…oh dear…how sad .

    424. geeo says:

      Laughing at coco so much i spelt ‘seething’, wrong…oh ma sides !!

    425. jezza says:


    426. Rock says:

      Rock (22nd December 2018 – “Satan’s Little Helper”):

      “Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

      CameronB Brodie says:
      8 January, 2019 at 8:53 pm

      That’s an opinion. Any evidence to support it?”

      Are you denying that Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond?

      Are you denying that the British Establishment is terrified of Alex Salmond?

      Are you denying that the British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola?

    427. Hamish100 says:

      rock still 100% unable to tell us if he reads the National!!

      Well until now??

    428. HYUFD says:

      Cameron B Brodie Since when has the end of critical management studies in Britain had anything to do with the establishment backing Remain? Nothing further to add there

    429. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m neither denying nor suggesting anything, I’m asking a question. Do you have any evidence to support your opinion?

      You claimed academia supports Brexit and I say rubbish. The Tories are split. The City is split. The media is split. The only part of the Establishment that that seams solid is Labour’s support for the Tory Brexit. Ergo, the Establishment is split over Brexit.

      Society? Oh yeah, ‘there is no such this as society’. Isn’t that right, Toryboy?

    430. HYUFD says:

      No I said academia did not support Brexit like the rest of the UK establishment, precisely the opposite. Most City banks and law firms backed Remain, the daily broadsheet press bar the Telegraph backed Remain as did most BBC journalists. Labour opposes both May’s Deal and No Deal as tonight’s vote made clear and it looks like there is no Commons majority for either, so a Remain v Deal referendum is possible

    431. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I must have misread.

      Do you think it reasonable that Scotland gets dragged out of the EU on the strength of an English vote? Do you support the principle of universal human rights?

    432. K1 says:

      Stu mac, I think maybe you didn’t understand my sarcastic humour in that post. 🙂

    433. HYUFD says:

      That is up to Scots but if the main reason Scots vote for independence if there is an indyref2 is they oppose Brexit and want to rejoin the EU that just proves my original point.

    434. CameronB Brodie says:

      You’re talking on a superficial level and making up your own logic. Brexit annihilates the principles of the Treaty of Union, not only with regard to preferential treatment for NI. Scottish residents presently posses EU legal identity, which will now be stripped from them as the result of English nationalism and an extremely dodgy vote. So clearly, the British constitution does not protect the legal rights of Scottish residents. Brexit has simply exposed this failing to a wider audience. Now, do you not think Scottish residents might have more than Brexit to justify a vote for independence, even if they are still to become conscious of that fact?

      btw, good try Toryboy but Scotland enjoys zero agency within Britain. That would not be the case as an independent member of the EU. Don’t tell me you’ve come over all Brexity now?

      P.S. Do you respect the doctrine of international law and support the principle of universal human rights?

    435. HYUFD says:

      No as yet again you state the main reason for independent is Brexit ie not Scotland becoming independent solely on its own terms but Scotland dependent on being in the EU above all. Scot land is an even smaller member of the EU than the UK with fewer Maps than MPs and can be overruled with QMV

    436. HYUFD says:

      Scotland has fewer MEPs than MPs and can be overruled with QMV

    437. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s not what I am suggesting, I indicated Scots apparently lack legal personality, according to the way HMG intends to abuse its’ constitutional authority. The human rights of Scottish residents are not valueless tat at the command of England’s electorate. Stop trying to misrepresent me, that’s symbolic violence, a cognitive technology of old-skool colonialism.

      You’ve still not told us whether you respect the doctrine of international law and support the principle of universal rights. That comes as no surprise, Torby.

    438. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t believe you’re thick, so you’re either being deliberately obtuse or actually a bit of a cultural chauvinist.

      I support the principle of universal human rights, I assume you support the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty. I want Scotland to be independent, you want Scotland to follow England’s lead. Scotland’s future relationship to supranational bodies is Scotland’s to decide. Or do you support English despotism over Scotland?

    439. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just in case you’re desperate to be hard-of-thinking, Britain is a supranational body. At least the EU respects the territorial boundaries of its’ members, unlike HMG, (see Brexit).

    440. HYUFD says:

      Your notion of ‘universal human rights’ seems to be based solely on ensuring Scotland is part of the EU. Brexit is hardly comparable to torture or real human rights abuses.

    441. yesindyref2 says:

      Scotland is an even smaller member of the EU than the UK with fewer MEPs than MPs and can be overruled with QMV

      I suggest you find out how voting works in the 2 councils and how the EP works in terms of groups – the 13 Indy Scottish MEPs would almost certainly join and work with their European counterparts in these. Don’t forget for unanimous votes, Scotland would have a veto completely equal to that of Germany, France, Italy – or the UK. UK (65 million) = Veto = Malta (450,000)

      This is a bit out of date, but it’s hopefully a simple guide:

    442. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are you gonna try and rubbish the UN, Toryboy?

      The Right to Development at a glance

      What is the Right to Development?

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      Sources for the Right to Development

      The right to development was proclaimed in the Declaration on the Right to Development, adopted in 1986 by the United Nations General Assembly (GA) in its resolution 41/128. This right is also recognized in the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights and the Arab Charter on Human Rights and re-affirmed in several instruments including the 1992 Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, the 1993 Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action, the Millennium Declaration, the 2002 Monterrey Consensus, the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document and the 2007 Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

      Duty bearers for the Right to Development

      Under the Declaration, “States have the primary responsibility for the creation of national and international conditions favourable to the realization of the right to development” (Article 3). According to the high-level task force on the implementation of the right to development “the responsibility for the creation of this enabling environment encompasses three main levels: (a) States acting collectively in global and regional partnerships (second preambular paragraph and Article 3); (b) States acting individually as they adopt and implement policies that affect persons not strictly within their jurisdiction (Article 4); and (c) States acting individually as they formulate national development policies and programmes affecting persons within their jurisdiction (Article 2).”1

    443. Rock says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      9 January, 2019 at 12:13 am

      I’m neither denying nor suggesting anything, I’m asking a question. Do you have any evidence to support your opinion?”

      Do you have any evidence to oppose my opinion?

    444. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not playing your game of make-believe.

    445. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 And if they disagree on a proposed legislation if it is decided by QMV they would still be outvoted

    446. HYUFD says:

      So yet again nothing you have said refutes the point that as all the polls show the only time the Scots might exercise this ‘human right to sovereignty’ you seem so exercised about is if the UK leaves the EU ie Scots are not seeking independence on their own terms, just the ‘protection of the EU’

    447. CameronB Brodie says:

      Yet again, you fail to tell us whether you respect the doctrine of international law and support the principle of universal human rights. I think it’s probably dawned on you that British nationalism can not accommodate the principle of universal human rights, without an effective mechanism for sharing power between the nations? That is my concern, gaining access to inalienable human rights that I am prevented from accessing, thanks to Westminster’s abusive, majoritarian, constitutionalism.

      I don’t appreciate the authoritarian nationalism of another nation, undermining my life potential. Got that Toryboy?

    448. Cactus says:

      A young Neil Young played behind them to the left NOW 43 years ago:

      As you can see, Sainsbury’s wasn’t around then.

      Still, the People remain the same.

      Changing days.

    449. Cactus says:

      A hey there fine peoples of Mainland iEurope.

      Here’s a look around Glasgow’s Central from 2012:

      Did ye see yerself…

    450. Cactus says:

      Tis time to revive and restore n get the show on the road…

      Howsabout 100 friendly citizens outside Central..

      Holding “Glaswegians for Yes” signage.

      Ah’ll bring a guitar.

    451. yesindyref2 says:

      And if they disagree on a proposed legislation if it is decided by QMV they would still be outvoted

      Did you even bother reading it?

    452. Cactus says:

      Here’s one fur awe you left track Lovers:

      Departing from Platform too.

      Enjoy the ride. 😉

    453. HYUFD says:

      CameronBBrodie Yet again your notion of ‘universal human rights’ is wholly and solely dependent on subsuming Scotland in a Federal EU, making a mockery of the term

    454. CameronB Brodie says:

      What’s your problem now Toryboy, selective literacy. That the sort of dishonest conduct that characterises the Tory personality. Now, away and play with yourself, wanker.

      “States have the primary responsibility for the creation of national and international conditions favourable to the realization of the right to development”

    455. yesindyref2 says:

      For the benefit of anyone following, this is a part of how QMV works, the first stage:

      This uses the double majority rule which requires both a majority of at least 55% of member states (16 out of 28), and a population majority of 65% or more. So 13 member states voting against can block legislation – no matter how small they are.

      . . .

      For example Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Croatia, Ireland, Slovakia, Finland, Denmark and Bulgaria with a total population of 42,742,200 can stop EU legislation for a population of 511,806,000 – just 8.35% of the total.

      So much for being outvoted, size doesn’t matter.

    456. Cubby says:

      UK or EU

      It’s a total no brainer the EU is a union. The UK is a dictatorship. Take your pick.

      I know what I want and it is not the Westminster dictatorship. Westminster has been rejected by billions of people across the world but sorry pathetic people like HYFUD think they are some sort of master race loved throughout the world. Some self awareness required but very unlikely.

    457. yesindyref2 says:

      Ironically HYUFD has highlighted a comparison between the EU and UK which is highly unfavourable to the UK in terms of representative democracy.

      Scotland (8.3% by population) + Wales (4.8%) for a total of 13.1% of the UK population, and HALF i.e. 50% of the apparent nations of the UK, were unable to stop the EU Withdrawal Bill.

      Yet if the UK was actually as democratic as the EU is, we WOULD have been able to stop it, if the UK had a sensible arrangement of QMV as the EU has.

      Thanks HYUFD, possibly not the result you wanted all the same.

    458. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think you’ve nailed it. That must be a real burn for the Toryboy, undermined by the unforeseen consequences of his own hubris.

    459. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think you could benefit from developing your powers of cognition, reason and empathy, as you appear to exhibit the short-term thinking that is characteristic of the Tory mind.

      4 Signs of Short-Term Thinking

      Most of us imagine that we engage in some form of long-term thinking; after all, we have goals and plans. But really we are fooling ourselves. We can see this most clearly when we talk to other people about their plans and strategies for the near and more distant future: we are often struck by their vagueness and the lack of deep thinking people generally give to such plans. They are more like hopes and wishes and in the rush of immediate events, feeling pressure and the need to respond, such weak goals and plans are easily overwhelmed. Most of the time we are improvising and reacting to events with insufficient information. Basically we are in denial about this because it is hard to have perspective about our own decision-making process….

    460. yesindyref2 says:

      Like others I’ve talked about the “democratic deficit” of the UK for Scotland, where our 8.2% population and 59 MPs have zero power in the UK. And when the Unionists have tried to hold “QMV” over our heads as a weapon have pointed out they don’t have a clue.

      But it’s the first time I’ve put the two together, thanks to HYFID. Yet it’s blindingly obvious – with QMV the UK might actually be democratically acceptable for Scotland.

      Thank God it doesn’t have it, eh! Or there’d be little chance of Indy.

    461. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh here you go, CBB style.

      I think you could do with ramping up your associational thinking processes, as you appear to trip yourself up with your innate desire to put the boot in to Indy.

      Associational Thinking

      Associational thinking is the way the brain processes information through integrating patterns, seeing contextual relationships, connecting seemingly unrelated elements, and three dimensional mental modeling. This type of thinking is characterized by the brain’s rapid, fluid, cross-disciplinary ability to select and apply the appropriate thinking combination to the situation.

      An associational thinking approach is proactive, integrative and naturally strong in:

      Solving complex problems
      Finding the opportunities in uncertain times
      Creating the future
      Designing new products and processes that bring value

    462. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nice one. 😉

    463. yesindyref2 says:

      I knew you’d like that one 🙂

    464. HYUFD says:

      CameronBBrodie Scots themselves voted to stay in the UK in 2014, I repeat the only reason you want to change that is to keep Scotland in an EU superstate

    465. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 The UK voted 52% to 48% to leave the EU. The EU rammed through the Maastricht Treaty despite Denmark voting against it and France voting only 51% for it. The EU ignored France and the Netherlands voting against the Nice treaty and rammed through the Lisbon Treaty

    466. HYUFD says:

      Or the European constitution rather. Ireland voted against the Lisbon treaty and was made to vote again by the EU

    467. K1 says:


      Lunatic fringe talk that…knew you’d finally reveal the fruitcake that you are.

    468. K1 says:

      The point he is making is a ‘principled’ one, we’d still have more say in our own affairs within the EU construct than we now have in this UK one, especially post Brexit.

      You have to work really hard to be this stupid not to understand the principled point that he is making here. Instead of just acknowledging the actual point your are tangentially introducing ‘your’ own conspiracy touched bias re ‘superstate’ etc.

      We can all read and comprehend what is being stated, your point blank refusal to even acknowledge a ‘true’ statement is what undermines your entire arguments.

      Time and again you cite 2014 as some ‘finite’ unmovable political position that cannot be revisited in light of changed circumstances, but you will not cite 2016 where the clearest majority of Scottish based voters, chose to stay in the EU. Nor the very fact that a so called 52/48% less than 3 years ago in EU ref is being revisited as we speak.

      I though you said you were only browsing. Best you keep to that. You are uniquely unqualified to debate even the most simple of realities.

    469. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland, indeed, voted No in 2014 but that doesn’t invalidate my point. Brexit annihilates the spirit of yoonyawn and crushes the embodied human rights of Scottish residents. Even those who support the yoonyawn. Now, for the last time, do you respect international law and support human rights? Or are you simply another authoritarian, English nationalist?

    470. CameronB Brodie says:


      A clear indicating that Toryboy simply can’t handle the complexity of the EU. Subsequently, he has to rationalise it in simplistic, pejorative, terms.

      Oi, Toryboy, I thought you’re edumicated.

      Another Europe is Possible:
      Critical Perspectives on European Union Politics

      Genealogy and Governmentality

      Drawing on the works of Nietzsche and Foucault, scholars such as Stefan Elbe,William Walters, Jens Henrik Haahr, and Henrik Larsen have used approaches based on genealogy, governmentality, and discourse to understand the EU as a site of power relations. From this perspective, the EU is the location where knowledge and power meet, with consequences for For Elbe (2003: 114), Nietzsche provides a perspective from which to look beyond the evil of European nationalisms, to become ‘good Europeans’ who ‘would find their meaning in the diverse and enigmatic aspects of existence’.

      Such diversity is itself practiced through the notion of perspective, as Nietzsche (1998: 98) argued that ‘perspectival seeing is the only kind of seeing there is, perspectival “knowing” the only kind of “knowing”’. It is this diversity of Nietzschean perspectival knowing that Ruggie(1993: 172) argued is constitutive of the EC and its analysis: ‘it may constitute the first “multi-perspectival polity” to emerge since the advent of the modern era [where] the concept of multiperspectival institutional forms offers a lens through which to view other possible instances of international transformation today’ (see Rumford and Murray 2003; Bohman 2004, on multi-perspectival approaches). Elbe has sought to develop a Nietzschean perspective on EU politics through engaging in genealogical reflections on European nihilism, nationalism, and the idea of Europe.

      Drawing on Nietzsche, Elbe (2001: 260) reminds us that ‘genealogy is a specific type of historical inquiry’ which is ‘primarily concerned with providing a history of the present’ and which insists ‘on the necessity of allowing for a plurality of appropriations’. Undoubtedly, Elbe’s most important reading of Nietzsche is in his argument that

      a vision of Europe that is deeply meaningful and not excessively technocratic … would be an idea that could contribute to a peaceful European community not because Europeans would share an identical and homogenous conception of what it means to be European, but because they would share a deep and valued experience of autonomy (Elbe 2003: 119).

      The European Union: A Critical Assessment

      The European Union’s Normative Power: Critical Perspectives and Perspectives on the Critical

    471. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. Both contemporary British nationalism and Neo-liberalism aim to annihilate all competing world views. As such, both are intrinsically fascistic in nature.

    472. jezza says:

      Not long until we are out of this Union

    473. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CameronB.

      What’s all this talk from Corbyn about the need for a general election? The UK voted for a Tory government in 2017 so that must have been the settled will of the people.

      People can’t just change their minds and demand another vote! That would be undemocratic – the people made their choice in 2017 so it must stand forever. No more divisive elections

    474. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Down with this sort of thing. 😉

    475. Cubby says:

      HYUFD comes on Wings trying to make out he is an old style decent Tory. He used to advocate federalism for the UK. There is no such thing as a decent Tory. Just another colonial.

    476. yesindyref2 says:

      @HYFUD “Yesindyref2 The UK voted 52% to 48% to leave the EU. The EU rammed through the Maastricht Treaty despite Denmark voting against it and France voting only 51% for it. The EU ignored France and the Netherlands voting against the Nice treaty and rammed through the Lisbon Treaty

      and what the fuck does that Daily Mail crap have to do with my posting?

      Stick to the point – it was you brought up QMV, have you now abandoned it because you realise

      Scotland would be far better off with QMV in the EU than it is with no QMV and no democratic rights at all in the UK?


      And Scotland voted 62% REMAIN, just 38% Leave.

    477. HYUFD says:

      K1 The EU now has its own President, its own Parliament and its own currency and Macron wants it to have its own army. It is a superstate in all but name

    478. HYUFD says:

      CameronBBrodie Human rights law was set up to prevent torture and detention without trial not as a means of ensuring Scotland left the UK to become part of an EU superstate. Nietzsche believed in ‘master slave’ morality and a masterrace. Since when have Scottish nationalism and Marxism not wanted to defeat alternative ideologies either?

    479. HYUFD says:

      Chubby So 28.6% of Scots are indecent?

    480. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 Rubbish Scotland has far more MPs as a percentage than MEPs.

      In the EU Scotland will also remain subject to rulings of the European Court of Justice in full

    481. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a very old-skool, colonialist, appreciation of human rights. You don’t know what you are talking about yet you’re prepared to correct me. What an arrogant sod you are, a typical Tory trumpet.

      The International Legal Personality of the Individual


      The first monograph to offer a comprehensive study of the relationship between international legal personality as a theoretical construct and the way in which individuals have been taken into account in the practice of international law
      Identifies and explains the four main theoretical conceptions of international legal personality and relates each of them to the question of the distinction between international and domestic legal norms.

      Provides a comprehensive and easily accessible overview of how individuals have been taken into account in international law as a matter of positive norms.

      Challenges the existing narrative concerning the development of the role of the individual in the international legal system.

      International Legal Personality

      The Source of International Legal Personality in the 21st Century

      4. Human Beings.

      Historically, individuals and groups of individuals, for the most part, were treated as objects of international law without international legal personality.’ That is, international law did not acknowledge that human beings as such had international law rights. International law rights existed in states (the subjects of international law) in their relations with other states. Humans, individually and collectively, generally had no direct international legal personality in the absence of some cognizable and specific legal capacity accepted by the general practice of states or established by treaty.

      The evolution of generic international legal personality for humans, more or less, has divided into three substantive stages that have been termed the human rights “generations.”‘ 3 The first generation of human rights is least controversial and comprises civil and political rights.24 The second generation of human rights is comprised of economic, social and cultural rights. 25 The third, and most controversial, generation of human rights addresses collective or solidarity rights which include, among others, claims of human rights to develop, to peace, and to a healthy and safe environment.

    482. CameronB Brodie says:

      Your view of Nietzsche is rather amusing, Toryboy. Carry on though, show the world your ignorance.

    483. Cubby says:

      HYFUD you read what I said. If the cap fits all you indecent Tories should wear it. No morals – colonialists and colonial enablers NOT DECENT PEOPLE

      I advised you to pissof before and here it is again PISSOFF

    484. Rock says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      9 January, 2019 at 10:13 pm

      I’m not playing your game of make-believe.”

      You tried to but lost.

    485. DerekM says:

      Working late tonight guys has the old witch gave you a pay rise yet lol

      Oh by the way your smear campaign is not going to work again,nice try but no cigar chumps.

      You still after all this time do not get it i find that amusing 🙂

      Brexit ends the UK the UK itself having set the precedence of leaving a political union.

      ps just so you know i am going to try and tell every Englishman i meet all about being sovereign,you really should just give up now and play the statesman big hurrah for England freeing the Scots the Welsh and the Irish come on dont you all want to be up there with Mandela and JFK as great iconic leaders well here is your chance end the UK and go out in one last blaze of glory instead of like a jobby being flushed down the bog.

      Bet you blow it chumps.

    486. CameronB Brodie says:

      You make unsupported statements then claim I lost an argument I never involved myself in. What are you smoking?

    487. K1 says:

      I’d rather be part of a peace keeping force involving all in the EU than be in an army of britnats, sent to war on the back of lies.

      I don’t give one toss about your fevered imaginings regarding a ‘superstate’, you are living in a dystopian mindset to buy into that level of bollocks. Jeez talk about paranoia, what do you think the ‘superstate’ is going to do…oh that’s right, let everyone mingle about in each others territory…but little Englanders don’t want that do they?

      Typical default Tory position…foreigners be baaadd.

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