Wings Over Scotland

Lol.. Nailed it as per Chris.Westminster deceit leading to Westminster defeat, hopefully.

Never accept sweeties from strangers.

Just sayin’.

Sweeties will be nothing but soor plooms!

Aye, “have a sweetie”; we all know where that leads.
You just know the SLAB councillors will be fa’in over themselves tae sign up tae crippling’ PFI infrastructure deals just to screw up the honest men and women who replace them in May and punish the residents who question the Divine Right of SLAB…

Brilliant Chris, with a Scottish sugar tax having been discussed, aye they’ll try to take it back in taxes.

Next up; cute wee puppies, wie extortionate licence fees!

They got their country back. Rejoice.

Charley says “stranger danger”. 😉

Exactly, an 800m sweetener, with the real cuts coming right behind it. An absolutely brilliant sketch.

Brilliant Chris – and definitely stranger danger!

OT The Herald carries the headline “Honorary degree for Murray” – is it only me that finds that offensive?

‘Honorary degree for Judy Murray ‘just too many letters for the Herald journalists is it?

I dislike this on all levels for both male and female, I find it utterly disrespectful .

Wot! no Jam!

Viva la revolution!

Beautiful, as always.

This morning I see another story in it, too:

Replace John Bull with Trump

Replace Hammond with Obama

Replace Lion Rampant with Cuba

Heedtracker , thanks . I was just beginning to wonder if it’s my age and I am behind the times in manners – that everyone else thinks it OK to address someone like a wee schoolboy in some private school of the past.

“What’s that really sharp instrument you’re holding?”

“It’s my Legislative Consent Motion,” Hamish replies.

Absolutely appalling. Illegally giving the ignorsnt, incompetent Unionist and Green no Party even more public taxpayers money to squander with absolutely no mandate. The Westminster unelected Unionist crooks with no mandate. A total lack of democracy or accountability. To by-pass the elected MP’s /Scottish Gov control on accountability. The unelected Unionists screw up the Scottish economy again. They are despicable. Letting ignorant, incompetent go on a unaccountable, irresponsible spending spree. While the essential services and the vulnerable are starved of funding, causing even more deaths and racking up the debt. Totally irresponsible.

The £800Million over five years will not even cover the repayments Scotland has to make on the rest of the UK borrowing and spending.

No wonder Football Clubs are in such a state. Letting peodophiles control the Clubs. No wonder the terraces are empty. Not a family market. A restricted market. Macho culture,

Congratulation to the National. Best wishes for the future. A notable achievement.

Lesley Riddoch has a column in the National. Can command fees of over £1000+ expenses for public speaking any day of the week and has made a good living out of the Independence Movement. Commanding an extensive audience. What is the beef about work drying up. Is that credible? Has got some personal problems. One day at a time.

What happened to the sugar tax. To save health, time and money. Make people happier. No so much quick fix sugar, comfort eating.

Very good Chris.

You have a knack of bestowing just the right expression/body language on Hamish. Lang may his lum reek!

Ken500

I didn’t ‘read’ Lesley Riddoch, in the National, as a personal complaint about work drying up, but as a general statement that pro-indy journalists have seen a decreasing outlet for their writing.

Aye! Have a sweetie on the same day the BBC lead stories read like this :-

#1 – Fidel Castro dies.
#2 – Crewe FC knew of Bennell abuse.
#3 – Request sent for Wisconsin vote recount.
#4 – UK photographer of wee nude girls, D. Hamilton dies.
#5 – Blackout hits London on Black Friday.
#6 – Disabled kids underpaid tax credits.

Nothing like getting your priorities right

– and that is nothing like getting your priorities right.

The actual important bit of the story, though, is only revealed at the very end of the report.

Which is that the disabled kids tax was underpaid, by an HMRC error, by at very least £3000 and HMRC say they will only repay money owed for 2016-17 but not for earlier years. Then they claim it is the responsibility of the individuals to check they received the right payments.

All this when the low profile, almost hidden, stories about the English NHS failures are also being played down in the media.

My impression is that the Westminster final financial collapse is a lot closer that they are ready to admit.

That big hatchet in the Chris cartoon is bigger, sharper and closer than most of us think it is.

T-Shirt / Campaign slogan of the Year

“E X P O S E…..T H E….B I A S”

It’s a wee bag of cyanide pills. Stuff them down Hammonds gob.

Socrates MacSporran

If Mrs Murray’s surname only is used in the print edition, it does not indicate disrespect. Sub-editors – and as an old sub myself, I have several issues with the standard of subbing on today’s Herald – have to try to “sell” the story in a few words, fitting into a pre-determined block of the page.”

That’s not true in any way whatsoever. How come every photo printed by all UKOK media gimps show Sturgeon in all kinds of bad light, to put it mildly.

Its the oldest and dirtiest trick in the UKOK hackdom book of tory gimpery.

The problem with UKOK hackdom is their silly assumption that we’re all just like them. Meanwhile, in their Scotland region of greater England, their sales tank faster than Novak Djokovic’s world ranking, as exact same tory hackdom desperately tries to pretend the Murray Clan are not that Scottish.

My Morrison’s is a lunatic asylum of union jacks and saltires plastered all over their products and for no actual reason but god bless my Morrison’s, their newsstand is now smaller than a wheelie bin and its getting shunted further and further from their main entrance, behind the bogoffs too, even.

Beware of the Clove wan’s Hamish & be wary of he/she who speaks with the Cloven Hoof ,the many amongst the few.

i dunno, the sweaty jocks in their tiny region too lazy to do anything, needing yet more huge hand outs from england, bloody cheek! While you are at it, take their stupid lazy pretendy parliament away, it costs us in rUK far too much! And all while the more important bigger regions in england are struggling. This is not divide and rule, oh no.

So, in england’s view, Scotland is just another region, can’t stand on her own two feet, told you so!

Clever, but people are not that daft, they see this mouldy crumb for the bribe that it is. It is though, for the benefit of those south of the border who hate Scotland anyway.

Great cartoon Chris, very apt, thanks.

Brilliant Chris as always.

Is it even legal for WM to give money directly to the councils?

It should be used to pay off the PPI debt

Artificial sweeteners always leave a bitter after taste!

Hammond offering Hamish sweets, makes me think of those who offer kids sweets if they’ll get into the car. It’s not a new idea – England has been doing that to Scotland for at least 300 years. And still doing it. The British Empire as a type is paedophilic, ie it preys on the unsuspecting with the intention of rape and exploitation. And still doing it.

Harold Shipman was a fine upstanding servant of his community – until he was investigated properly. Before that, any suspicions raised about him, were dismissed as nonsense at best and outrageous by those protecting him.

When the history books and records are examined after Independence, Scotland will forever wonder why so many accepted England’s crimes against Scotland as nonse

Go on admit it not only have you got your first Xmas card up but you’ve been to the panto Jack and the Beanstalk and you were scared by the Giant! 😀 Hammond reminds me of Terry Pratchett’s Downey, head of the Assasins Guild. Smashing ‘toon as always Chris.

Andrew Coulson 12:24
I’d rather nothing than continue as the rear end of the panto dragon that is the UK. All we get from them is the farts, lets have some frsh air.

Andrew Coulson says: at 12:24 pm
“If Marine Le Pen wins and takes France out of the EU, the EU will collapse, and Scotland will no longer have a choice to make between the UK and the EU. It’ll be the UK or nothing.
Just saying……”

It’ll be the UK, or the freedom to decide our own future.
Just saying….

o/t Oh look slabbers are out putting leaflets through doors.

Save our NHS(which one slabbers Scotland or England)

After 10 years of SNP(bad)control our NHS is in distress

1.6 billion cut from GP funding

1 in 4 GP practices short of doctors

more than 2000 nursing posts unfilled

more than 5000 beds cut from our hospitals

longer waiting in A@E,cancelled operations and cancer patients waiting to long for diagnosis.

Well slabbers i will save the Scottish NHS by not letting you fuckwits and your evil blue tory pals anywhere near it ever again.

Jack Murphy 

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I had to ask my fellow cybernats last night for a link to the submission as I had searched in vain for coverage on the net.

I read it last night until my eyes began glazing over with fatigue after a long day nursing the cold. I think history will record Wolfe’s submission as one of the most important documents in the history of these Isles. Without going into detail (as I am not a third through it) I just marvel at the task he was charged with: to write a document presenting a case to block the UK government railroading article 50 through and to assert nay, to demand Scottish consultation, consent or otherwise.

It goes to the very heart of the matter: are we a colony or are we a country.

The press tends to report news in inverse proportion to its import: hence we get countless articles on JK Rowling tweets and precious little on this submission.

It is a credit to the Wings community that so much of what I have read so far has been pored over endlessly on Wings over the last few months and years. It mocks the stereotype the media like to portray us as: woad covered braveheart obsessed neanderthals.

If anyone wanted to pull a few of the more pertinent paragraphs and ask Stu to post as an article it would be useful for those with neither the time nor inclination to wade through the submission.

NHS spending in Scotland has (pro rata) increased. The Westminster Unionists/Labour have cut NHS spending pro rata. Trying to cut the NHS spending by £20Billion over five years.

The SNP have mitigated the cuts, increased SNHS spending and put more into social care. The Unionists and Green No Party do not pass on the funding for adequate essential local services. Preferring to spend it on grotesque projects, with no mandate, the majority do not support. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

The NHS in England/Wales is falling apart. The Unionist lies will not do them any good. Complusive liars are always found out. No one believes a word that they say.

The Brexicutioner commeth.

Don’t fall for the old cock and bull.

If Marine Le Pen wins and takes France out of the EU, the EU will collapse, and Scotland will no longer have a choice to make between the UK and the EU. It’ll be the UK or nothing.
Just saying…

Not convinced that she would take France out of the EU if elected. However, she would make the life of immigrants to France very, very difficult. I haven’t seen much of anything regarding complaints regarding freedom of movement within the EU as a political issue in France. The hot potato issue is Islamic fundamentalism….or for Front Nationale anyone a bit non-European looking.

If the EU ceased to exist I would echo the view of JWT – independence is an option. The notion that the Union is only game in town or even a good game is open to question. Anyway, in the absence of the EU something very like it would quickly coalesce.

ClanDonald
“Is that a fair analysis of how the system works?

Hurrah for Barnett consequentials!!”

Nicely put D. Inconsequentials more apt though.

@Paul D,

Yes we should. We will be paying the full 8% share in debt though.
Between renovating Westminster and Buckingham Palace they are going to spend over £9 billion. We pay for that too.

“It’ll be the UK or nothing.”

So, if the EU ceases to exist, you can just see Ireland clambering to rejoin the UK union, can’t you?

(Stop the sniggering at the back).

Infrastructure spending £23Billion over 5 years

Scotland £800Milion over five years.

Increased debt borrowing £122Billion?

The £800Million will not even cover the increased loan repayments Scotland will have to pay on the money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Not in Scotland.

Hinkley Point -£100Billion over budget and time. The last one built in the world in Finland (France) was seven years late and £Billions over budget. HS2 £100Million? Years late and overbudget (too expensive of little value no business case, no customer base. Heathrow. Another runway. It will be obsolete before it is finished. No business case. Trident £100Billion. Obsolete. A total waste of money. There are much cheaper, better, feasible renewable alternatives. £300Billion+ A total waste of money. Plus the rest. All to suit Westminster – London S/E. it is the Westminster way. To take £Billions out of Scotland. They think they can get away with it.

The UK will collapse before the EU. The UK has more debt, more inequality, more illegal wars, more borrowing, more banking fraud and tax evasion.

Dr Jim,
Absolutely right. I can’t believe these people who want to have every tiny detail about independence sorted out before we vote for it. There is only one thing that matters – to win the vote- then we can spend the rest of time deciding how we organise the new Scotland.
I have seen posts on Wings complaining about the EU or the Monarchy or the currency and implying that if the SNP don’t follow their particular line they cannot support them.
Well, with independence everybody will have a chance to influence our future. Without it, as we know, we will get what England wants, and it is only the SNP who can deliver.

Just had a quick swatch at Eurosat

Balance of payments deficit for UK 2015 was around 140 billion, next nearest deficit was France, about 10 billion.
Germany was about 200 billion surplus.

Sort of O/T but if you are looking for the Scottish Government’s submission to the Supreme Court re article 50, it is here:

link to gov.scot

Jack Murphy at 1235pm

I agree, but I think the reason the BBC in Scotland is not covering the constitution, is because none of them at pacific Quay understand Scotland’s constitutional history. Given they are all rampant brain washed London lovers, who see nothing but bad in Scotland, and believe any old p*sh uttered by Westminster (who also btw, know b*gger all about Scotland’s constitution) it is unlikely any of them would ever actually bother to read Scottish history – or even the treaty of union.

I can only imagine, that as part of the induction process at Pacific Quay, new staff are forced to watch every wholly distorted history series by the Scotland-hating David Starkey, and thon other London loving long-haired non historian unionist (nobody remembers his name).

If given the actual facts of Scotland’s constitutional reality, they likely would never believe you.

Once had the ‘pleasure’ of over-hearing a half-drunk ‘John Bull’ bellowing out a racist remark in his sports club bar. (Chairman of that ‘elite’ county club too.) While my lads team were coming off the field, after a well earned draw, he called out, “Shaheed Kahn, whit sorta Scotch name is that?” Being a sports coach, I had to restrain myself from slapping his face.

And slowly but ever so assuredly, England’s frothing, arrogant, xenophobic print & broadcasr media awake to the reality that their beloved UK means something that was once beyond their ken–that they are bound by the rules of an ACTUAL TREATY with Scotland.

How did THAT happen, they ask themselves in total befuddlement? Because you have no effing clue about the history of how the UK came into being. Learn the history you bunch of retards and then understand this–Scotland’s people HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT to be heard. Aye–the too wee, too poor, too effing stupid uppity sweaties HAVE A SAY in their own future.

Doffs cap to Mr Peffers.

This post is about Sport.. Rugby..

Well played Scotland! That’s more like it.

Cheers Chris.

Andrew Coulson: “If the EU collapses next year, the choice won’t arise.”

What evidence is there for your proposition the EU will collapse next year or after?

1st December Tank Commander on BBC Question Time for the tories (Not a MP) FLUFFY BEING AVOIDED, Alan Johnston for Labour UK– THE 3RD LARGEST PARTY at Westminster? Who are they? Liberals on every week.

BBC partiality for all to see. Exec Producer Hayley Valentine worked with STV and BBC Scotland– pally I believe with ex bbc reporter Ruth Davidson. Director Rob Hopkin who worked with Glenn Capmbell on the Big Debate. He also commented on why BBC Scotchshire stopped comments online during indy ref 1 and said in a statement”..“BBC Scotland has decided to disable the capacity for public comments to be regularly appended to both the Brian Taylor and Douglas Fraser online correspondent pages; the pages will, however, occasionally be opened for comment. We believe that by determining which particular issues might best be explored by the inclusion of public comment online, we will allow a more flexible and a more adaptable approach to be taken to how we cover the main issues in Scotland.” We don’t take criticism in other words. We tell you what is to be discussed. Got it?
So plenty of Scottish Connections with QT so how come last week QT from Stirling ..in Scotland- only 2 Scots were represented on the panel?

Maybe the Scots Select Committee or Holyrood could invite in for a wee explanation?

Scottish facebook news, posted this afternoon. Old media still wraps tomorrow chips though, or something.

“Paolo Nutini has allegedly refused to allow BBC Scotland to film his set during the Edinburgh Hogmanay Show. Mr Nutini is the headliner act in this year’s show.

The BBC’s anti-independence bias during the independence referendum campaign and the continuing pro-Union narrative appears to have poisoned the relationship between Mr Nutini and BBC Scotland.”

Every thing helps.

link to youtube.com

I see that J. K. Rowling is worth £1 billion again. She in the recent past went to America to sue a 50 year old Librarian for supposed plagiarism. And watched stoney faced as he broke down. What a testimonial to Unionist Apologists. Disgusting Woman.

Looks like Humza Yousaf will definately have to resign now.

Can’t archive the link and not giving the BBC any clicks, but apparently there has been a power cut on the West Coast main line between Swindon and Bristol leaving thousands of passengers stranded.

That’s what I love about the Rev, he goes the distance and doesn’t let these stains get away with their Yoon BS.

link to twitter.com

Hamish100@5.14.
The BBC employs paedophiles (FACT).
The BBC is corrupt(FACT.
The BBC is BIASED SHITE(FACT).
If anyone on the site is still paying for the TV licence, hang your heads in shame.
I never thought in a million years I would stand up against the EBC bollocks by not paying the licence, after 2 years, “bliss” I wish I had done it 30 years ago.

There is no excuse.
PS Alistair Carbuncle is still a FUC*ING LIAR. “I know O/T
had a wee love letter from the Lying Democun*s today.”
NEVER FORGET.
A wee sortie into Eljin in Mo ray today(that’s how its pronounced by the increase of free prescription Yoons, its going to be hard for the Indy cause in Moray.
Before anyone goes off on one, I welcome ANYONE to Scotland, but they have to accept Scotland in the polar opposite of Whingestan.

heedtracker@5.39.
Aye I saw this yesterday.
She may have a billion but she will never be Tolkien.
Nuf said.

‘If anyone on the site is still paying for the TV licence, hang your heads in shame.’

I haven’t paid it for so long I can’t tell how many years its been. (probably 5 or 6 years)

A woman from Capita even phoned me up and told me my licence was due for renewal and asked if I have a credit card to hand. I nearly burst out laughing.

After about half an hour of me telling her exactly why I could not pay it, a lot was about the BBC Scotland and the manipulation of information against Scotland, and that how I could not take food away from my children’s mouths to pay for the BBC to transmit propaganda against Scotland, she asked me if I wanted to put down that I did not watch TV.

I won’t go into more of the conversation, but, really, if you really do support Scotland being an Independent country, you really do need to grow a pair and tell these people to get to France.

Aye heedtracker, It is going to be tough, to many brit nats still believing the daily staple of garbage being fed to them North and South of the border.
The beauty of Indy2014 was Scotland woke up to the establishment and realised the myth of corruption, lies, bias and all round fear-mongering from the “Establishment”
Yes the country lost a golden chance to take a path to “light at the end of the tunnel”, it was there, our finger tips caressed it, but the “majority”!? blew it.
Every day I still get the usual short sited garbage press yoon fest from some friends/customers who still believe the gutter press, it is slowly becoming a reality with some of them that they were duped,but my big fear is Scotland will shaft itself yet again for something as simple as some Shitey EBC programme that they will not get to watch when Scotland becomes Independent, I know that sound trite but that’s basically what happened the last time, anyone remember the VOW!!!!?

“If we leave, there will be no going back. This separation will not be quick and clean: it will take microsurgery to disentangle three centuries of close interdependence, after which we will have to deal with three bitter neighbours.”

Sounds like the sort of individual who would stay in an abusive relationship, purely because they lack the self-confidence to make a new start for themselves. Quite pathetic, frankly.

@jk
What’s your knowledge base? What is your comprehension of post-modern critical social theory? Equality? The semiotic theory of space and place? Sustainability? Are you aware of the history of human emancipation from subjugation? Not a fan of the suffragette movement?

P.S. “Put the master’s tools down”.

Now, if only this article about the BBC had been titled

“Speaking In Forked Tongues”.

When will they stop telling themselves they can take the government coin AND be perceived as objective by their audiences.

Scotland will never be free until the last minister is strangled with the last copy of the Radio Times.

Loved the picture of the radio dial, though. You have to be of a certain age, children!

Now, if only this article about the BBC had been titled

“Speaking In Forked Tongues”.

link to archive.is

When will they stop telling themselves they can take the government coin AND be perceived as objective by their audiences.

Scotland will never be free until the last minister is strangled with the last copy of the Radio Times.

Loved the picture of the radio dial, though. You have to be of a certain age, children!

Tomkins is completely off the scale yoonerism it’s like having batshit Jill or moonshot Gallagher in our parliament, an embarassment to Scotland.

I took the go home as a polite way of saying fuck off which is what we all want Tomkins to do…

Lenny Hartley says:
26 November, 2016 at 8:49 pm
O/T following on Alec Salmonds FB page, I await the apologies.

Red faces all round for Labour, Telegraph and Daily Mail as the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) confirm that last week’s expense attack on the Scottish National Party (SNP) was based on wrong figures!

I am sure that the newspapers concerned willprint a prominent correction but then IPSO press authority link to ipso.co.uk is as useful as a chocolate firegauard when it comes to Tory press slandering people.

@heedtracker says: 26 November, 2016 at 7:33 pm:

“If we leave, there will be no going back. This separation will not be quick and clean: it will take microsurgery to disentangle three centuries of close interdependence, after which we will have to deal with three bitter neighbours.”

No problem disentangling over three centuries of close inter WHAT?

To my mind the country of England has well over 3 centuries of being dependent upon outside stolen resources to prop up their economy.

Disentangling Scottish matters from Westminster is very, very simple. If they quibble about anything whatsoever we tell them all deals are off and they can keep their assets and their debits and we will keep ours.

By that time they will be disconnected from the European continent and have all their borders with hostile nations and be forced to live off their own resources or pay a fair price for them. What can be seen is that England, Wales and N.I. have long been net importers of food, fuel and power.

Scotland on the other hand have long been net exporters of all three scarce commodities. Furthermore, anything they can manufacture so can Scotland and any service they can provide – so can Scotland.

BTW: at present all three of those commodities data is manipulated in order to rob Scotland, They take all revenues from the oil & Gas; they fiddle the export figures by counting Scots produce exported via English ports as being English exports and they operate the National Grid, “Grid Connection Charge”, system that forces the Scottish generating companies to pay more to add electricity to the grid depending on how far they are from London while subsidising the southern generating companies.

Come independence and Brexit they will be in competition with every state that surrounds them and with closed borders with them all.

As for, “dealing with three bitter neighbours”, what does the daft idiot of a woman imagine we have been dealing with since the Romans first invaded Britain?

Scotland did not enter into the United Kingdom of her own free will and anyone who knows Scottish history can show you the proof of that particular claim.

From Roman times to almost 40 years after the Treaty of Union the two kingdoms were slaughtering each other. There isn’t an inch of ground from Berwick to Solway and all points north that is not steeped in the bloodshed of Scottish vs English bitter battles.

Just as a wee example of how bitter and extensive has been the relationship between the two. When they were constructing what was laughingly described as the M90 Motorway from the Forth Road Bridge north they were digging up the skeletal remains and old weaponry of many, many battles including both of the Battles Of Inverkeithing.

They were still finding human remains and weaponry well north past Kinross and Milnathort.

Inverkeithing was fought in 1651, it happened between the, (wrongly claimed by England), Union of the Crowns, and the Treaty of Union of 1706/7.

Does this ignorant woman imagine these events were sweetness and light? They were part of the English Kingdoms forceful construction of the United Kingdom.

When you are aware of the history then you can better understand why Westminster just assumes that the did extinguish the Kingdom of Scotland in 1706/7.

None the less the actual treaty and acts of union say it was a legal treaty of two equally sovereign kingdoms and that is what is now being taken to the supreme court.

Just think of what that means. The supreme court has two choices. If they throw the claim out they are saying that Westminster did indeed extinguish the Scottish Kingdom in 1706/7 and is now actually the Kingdom of England renamed as the United Kingdom but the Treaty of Union says otherwise.

The Treaty says it is a legal union of two equally sovereign partner entered into freely by both parties.

If they throw the case out they say it was NOT a legal treaty

Note: Here’s a cite to YouTube for an insight of the Battle of Inverkeithing:-

link to youtube.com

Bbc TV news , shows a clip from Ireland v Australia,mWales v South Africa and England v Argentina, I await wit anticipation to watch the Try of the day from Scotland, Er no, no clip from the Scotland games but what’s this we get a clip from English women’s rugby!

Graun;s Will Hutton teatime,

“Brexit is pure poison, polluting everything it touches. The fundamental questions the country should be addressing – the crisis in productivity growth, the lack of affordable housing, the overwhelming strain on public services, our desperately weak export sector – are all sidelined. There is not the bandwith or capacity to address them against the gigantic question of how to weather the greatest shock to our economy and society since 1945.

Be in no doubt. Brexit transcends the 1974 oil shock or the 2008/9 financial crash in the probable scale, intensity and duration of its impact. Every aspect of our economy is going to be affected. Investment decisions are going to be abandoned or reduced.”

Here’s why you should vote No today – The Labour Party

18 Sep 2014 – A No vote will get you, better, faster, safer change for a stronger Scotland with more powers on tax and welfare.
“Better change, faste

Robert Peffers @ 9.54
Em… Robert I don’t think it will quite work that way.
Well not in regards to the 1707 Treaty itself.

The Supreme Court will probably not say anything about the Treaty that will confirm or deny how it functions,the best I think we can hope for,is some sort of confirmation in the Judgement that it’s a live document.
But chances are that will be done indirectly.

Now while that in a sense is upholding our view of it.
It is still Not a judgement To uphold the status of the Treaty itself.
That question still hasn’t been brought to a Court.

For many reasons these Judge’s will, I think, try to say as little as possible about the Treaty,and certainly nothing definitive,if they can get away with it.

What we will get though is an absolute win win situation on the Sewal convention stuff.

Either the Court will rule…we have to be consulted,in which case we will be very publicly,overuled by Westminster after being derided all over the MSM,for the tail wagging the dog sort of thing.

Or the Court will rule…That we don’t need to be consulted,which demonstrates the new Scotland Act that puts the Sewal convention on a statutory footing is not worth the paper it’s written on.
Which demonstrates we were right about it,and puts to bed the myth that Holyrood is the most powerful devolved Parliament in the whole wide world.
Oh and have you noticed Robert,since the Brexit vote they don’t say that anymore!!! funny that,there was a time when the couldn’t finish a sentence without sayin it.

Whatever way it goes Westminster is going to be forced to pull rank and overrule Holyrood.
And overrule it on an issue that Scot’s have voted on already.
How Westminster justifies that should be hilarious.

Personally I am hoping that there’s an issue arising out of this,that let’s Holyrood go to the European Court.
That should set the cat among the pigeons!

Tam Jardine @ 10.40
What I can’t wait to see is the politicians & the great and the good in England,campaign to”keep” Scotland.
Last time around the English electorate were pretty ambivalent about us becoming independent.
So the English MP’s could campaign away with no consequences.
But this time the Westminster crew are going to have voter’s in their own backyard with very strong opinions.
Formed by the Express,Nutall and their compatriots.

I am now convinced there’s going to be a pop corn shortage.

@Tam Jardine
Yes, it’s fun on the Express, and a bit of a doddle. Thing is you’re right on there, they’re being lied to too. Thing is we – and non-indy people – know more of what the score is, whereas all they know is what they’re fed by the Express, DM or DT and BBC – and other posters, some of whom are Scots. So they believe the Scots who are anti-Indy and virulently anti-SNP.

I’m just going to straighten them out every so often with some facts, being nice and moderate about it of course, with just the occasional sting in the tail.

We’ll have to wait and see what happens in the UKSC. Sometimes submissions from the QC are addressed point by point by the Judges, to reach the conclusion, and I’m hoping that’s what happens with Wolffe’s.

There’s also a submission on behalf of the Lawyers for Britain – a short summary from the link below as the full submission isn’t available yet. The represent Brexiters basically. I’m glad there is one as now we have people and governments on both sides of the appeal, which means different arguments will have to be used, for people and governments – and addressed by the court. Now that might well broaden the initial scope on its own, from the point of view of Scotland having to express our people’s rights as opposed to the Scottish Government / Parliament.

link to lawyersforbritain.org

Yesindyref2 @ 12.02
We might have missed a trix there.
We should have crowdfunded our own intervention in the Supreme Court.
If the Breixteers can get permission to be heard in theory so could a group representing the Scottish remainers.
At the least we could have tried to ensure that the points we are hoping are in the Judgement are harder to avoid.
Because I think the judges will do their upmost to do so.

@Thepnr –

I’m playing catch-up and have read only a fraction of the comments btl on recent posts.

Who had a go at you? Missed that.

Knowing you, it’ll be water off a duck’s proverbial, and that’s something that the nastier trolls would do well to remember – the ‘regulars’ in this place come and go, sometimes for months at a stretch. But the site goes from strength to strength. None of ‘us’ are under any illusions about the significance of our opinions – they are worth no more or less than those of the next voter, but we use this place to state how we feel, provide relevant info we may have, and contribute to building the social networks Thepnr mentioned.

Rev Stu has reminded us – many times – that something less than 1% of WOS readers ever comment btl. I don’t know if that stat has changed recently, but the fact remains that there is a hard-core of regulars who, whether they realise it or not, actually express what many other readers feel. Yes, it would be great if more ‘lurkers’ would speak-up, but they can’t be forced to do so. If that makes the regulars appear opinionated to some? Tough.

‘KIN right.

Liz g

Aye- not sure how the “Let’s stay together” relaunch is going to work. “Sorry for Brexit… let’s stay together” not quite as catchy.

yesindyref2

Talking about straightening folk out with the facts- having got into Merryn’s blog some zoomer has started up a correspondence on the piece about Nicola and Trump. Some kind of ex army UKIP blogger talking about the SNP being economically illiterate and the SNP being divisive… I must say I admire your restraint. I seem to have lost my gentle side and now I just want to rip folk apart on these yoon sites.

And I am really quite a polite person in real life!

Thepnr

You are a total hero and I love the fire you bring to this site. Never change. This isn’t a petting zoo we’re involved in: it is the struggle to remove this dead hand from all our throats and those of our children and our grandchildren. And once we get rid of said dead hand we can create a Scotland that is a role model for countries throughout the world.

Like I say: never change

Petition
Repeal the new Surveillance laws (Investigatory Powers Act)

Over it’s target already, 108,114 & counting

link to petition.parliament.uk

Soz if posted earlier

I can confirm that Tam Jardine is one of the gentlest souls it’s ever been my pleasure to meet.

But…

You know what they say about the quiet ones!

🙂

Hi Thepnr – I haven’t read all the comments (can’t keep up!) But whoever called you a ““a self opinionated twat, who thinks that WoS belongs to you.” must be pretty self-opinionated.

I like reading your comments. So please keep on posting.
Arguments are fine IMO, but insults not fine.

First thanks for all the kind words from those that have actually met me.

I understood totally that I wouldn’t be liked by being the nasty one that calls out the trolls and for a bit I did see that as a job that needing doing.

Nobody wants the shite job!! Yet someone has to do it.

LOL This job does need doing, just open your eyes. There are forces at work who want you to fail. Do not blind yourselves.

It’s all our job by the way, just open you eyes.

@ Thepnr A wee tune over in O/T For You.

@Thepnr
I agree with the others here. You bring a real passion to the threads you carry on. 🙂

Just catching up from this afternoon.

@Robert Peffers
I know Queensferry to Burntisland area very well but I was in the dark about The Battle of Inverkeithing thanks for that. Jings!

PS:
She’s off to Dublin noo! 😕

link to archive.is

liz g:

I said it the other night on O/T liz,the worse thing about insomnia is INSOMNIA.

Peace Always

@Liz g
Yes, I was thinking about that. Thing is it could get in the way of the Lord Advocate’s case, which is prime. Us claim-of-righters can wait our turn, there’ll be plenty to come.

I was also thinking about Indy Ref 1 with Salmond, an easy going one, no major disputes, no court actions, just easy and happy, getting the vote from 27% to 45%, and 55% at times I think, but including a whole load of uncertains. Don’t scare anyone, it’s the Awakening, don’t want people jumping out of their cosy sleepy beds in shock and dismay and taking a turn against the whole idea. Which was right I think.

Indy Ref 2 and Sturgeon. She don’t take no prisoners. Any nonsense and she’ll be straight in there. Which is right I think. I reckon the whole thing was planned from around July 2014.

@Robert J. Sutherland
Yes, it’s good. Must admit to some annoyance when I read it “Mibbe we’ve had our feet up, thinking there was plenty of time, assuming someone else was going to do it for us” with my thought being “Mibbe you did”. And seeing a certain face behind the 5 at the front, one not seen for over 2 years, did piss me off. But hey, who cares, it needs a front face, while everyone else does the actual work. But no £100,000 a year salaries, get stuffed. And get someone to do a proper website this time, haven’t seen one that bad since the first efforts of a demon homepager – and that actually had content.

Glad I got that off my chest, it’ll be the last time I almost promise, a bit honestly.

Robert Peffers @ 1.41
…..not expecting a reply tonight Robert….

When I said confirmation that it’s a live document.
I should have been more clear.

What I meant was that we are not referring to cases years back and mostly before devolution.
There are those especially in the media who like to give the impression that discussing the Treaty is all very well for a history class,but we have all moved on and it has no bearing on how the world works today.
But the fact and it is a fact that Court’s are looking at it and mentioning it in their judgements literally weeks ago,sweeps that position away as a credible one.

There is now no argument that the Treaty is indeed relevent.
The Court’s have debunked one of the Union’s favourite myths and for once very publicly.
And we get to ask why if it’s just an old historical document are the Highest (allegedly) Court’s in the land referencing it.

I am glad you feel more positive than I do about what will emerge from the Supreme Court.
I think the Judges will be very cautious about what they will put into their judgement.
I think they will be very aware that they can’t do anything to affect the Union.

Apart from the fact they haven’t been asked to.
They wouldn’t and shouldn’t wander into politics.
And the status of the Union is definitely a political issue.

Don’t forget at this point in time Westminster is still the prime legislators and nobody is jumping up and down to protect the Church of Scotland anymore.
It could be argued that based on the 2014 referendum result they have the authority to implement a new Act of Union.

I had expected that to be what happened if we voted no and the SNP fell apart,thats what I would have done once I saw how close it was.
So it’s not impossible to imagine that they might still try,using the Court Judgement to highlight the Treaty needs updating.
Then the Court would have to apply the new one in any subsequent case.
We have to keep this decision political.
And we absolutely have to stay under the jurisdiction of the European Court’s.
I don’t understand why some are saying that they want out of Europe more than out of the UK.
Do they not realise that if we go out with Westminster still in charge,they are risking new law’s being written to prevent us ever leaving? Tis Bizzare right enough.

@Robert J
Yeah, I needed that!

@Liz g
I don’t see how they could update the Treaty because it needs two parties to a Treaty, and both parties to agree to change it. The Acts of Union have been amended, and it would be interesting to thoroughly check the original one with England I found on a website, with the current one. I had a quick look side by side in two tabs and the two bits I looked at seemed reasonable, including with costs long gone, and another saying it would be changed later (e.g. Victuals from beyond Sea!). It might just be reasonable wording changes, who knows. Too much of an exercise for me right now.

Original apparently: link to rahbarnes.co.uk

Current one: link to legislation.gov.uk
(you can click on Opening Options to Open whole Act).

An interesting thing there I found was this – still in the current version “and lyable to the same Customs and Duties on Import and Export ”

Mmm, I wonder if Fraser Whyte of “Meme-busting: whisky and the non-existent export duty” fame, is aware of that about Duties and Export in the Union with England Act 1707 – or “Act of Union, 1707 January XVI, M, DCC, VII.” as it was originally known!

The export duty is zero, not non-existent. LOL.