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David Mundell is a liar

Posted on May 04, 2019 by

This was the Secretary of State for Scotland on the BBC’s coverage of the Scottish Conservative conference earlier today.

The broadcaster’s political editor Brian Taylor gets uncharacteristically indignant with Mundell’s response, and well he might.

Mundell insists, as he has done for years, that Scots voted in 2014 while knowing that they’d subsequently be getting a referendum on EU membership. But as we’ve clearly established previously on this site, that’s complete nonsense. An EU referendum was conditional on a Tory majority in the 2015 general election, and in 2013 and 2014 almost nobody thought that was going to happen.

(We did, of course, but nobody listens to us.)


According to UK Polling Report, in the month leading up to the indyref vote there were 39 polls of UK voting intention conducted. Exactly two of them gave the Tories a lead over Labour, both times of just a single point, with one dead heat. The other 36 all put Labour ahead, by as much as 8 points and with an average lead of 4%.

In late August 2014, bookies were making a Conservative majority – the only outcome which would have guaranteed an EU referendum – a 3/1 long shot, with Ed Miliband favourite to be next PM:


The Tories had been at those odds or longer all year. In a televised debate a week later, just 16 days before the referendum, even Ruth Davidson made a point of saying that the Tories weren’t looking likely to win, and therefore an EUref was a long shot.

“It’s disingenuous of Patrick [Harvie] to say that No means out and Yes means in, when actually the opposite is true.

No means we stay in, we are members of the European UnionAnd yes, IF the Conservatives win the next election – which frankly isn’t looking likely by the polls, but we’re trying our best – we will allow people to have their say.”

So Mundell was flat-out lying once again. People believed that there was, at that time, less than a 50% chance of an EU referendum, as Labour had categorically ruled one out and they were expected to win the election, or at the very bare minimum deny the Tories a majority. (A hung Parliament was odds-on.) Ruth Davidson was actively telling people in independence debates that it was unlikely.

The No campaign was crystal clear that voting No was voting to stay in the EU, and that voting Yes meant leaving.

It’s the rewriting of history over the EU that most strikingly characterises the No side’s ongoing panic about the prospect of a second indyref. They simply hope that if they tell the lie stridently enough for long enough everyone will forget the truth. But we’d still give you a lot more than 3/1 on that happening.

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  1. 04 05 19 18:56

    David Mundell is a liar | speymouth

371 to “David Mundell is a liar”

  1. Mad Unionist says:

    I was hoping and expecting there would be an EU referendum. The political battle for a referendum had been going on for years and was expected at some point. Whether Mundell was lying is irrelevant as the people turned out on a massive scale to vote which proves the vote was wanted. I believe Mundell like the PM were both remainers. Better watch he does not sue Rev!

  2. Bob Mack says:

    If the old insult of “liar liar pants on fire “is true, then Mundell must be standing up to his knees in ashes.

    Conversely, he’s a Tory and they are not usually revered for their take on the truth of anything.

  3. handclapping says:

    No, no. Not lying shitebag but someone with whom you must dispute his memory of events :O)

    Don’t ever hold back Stu, its what we love about you.

  4. Sandy says:

    Someone who “ers” time and again during conversation is, to me, fabricating something to say, lost for words. “Er” Mundell is renowned for it. Cast your mind back to the original denial that he was unaware of Carmichael’s lies.
    Practice makes perfect, so they say.

  5. Portjim says:

    I hear that the Prime Minister is to institute a new government department to clarify these unfortunate mis-remembering of past events. I believe it will be known as “The Ministry of Truth”.
    It’s duties will include eradication of any data which may lead to misinterpretation of the facts. Possession and retention of such data would be a criminal act, and classed as treason – much more serious than merely leaking security secrets.

  6. Abulhaq says:

    Independence is THE Gordian Knot of Scottish politics.
    A leader with the balls of Alexander to just cut the ffff-ing thing is now required.
    This tragi-comedy has gone on too long. The faithful have become restive.
    Scotland expects!

  7. Effijy says:

    I must defend Mundel here!
    He is correct when he say Scots should have known
    That every Tory is lying Bastered whenever they are discussing
    Anything related to Scotland.

    If Brian’s were dynamic Mundel wouldn’t have enough to blow his hat off.

    On a much Brighter note, I’ll put my next post up about today’s AUOB rally.
    Don’t want it contaminated by the Mundell word.

  8. David Ross says:

    Sadly, I fear that the SNP have got themselves in a difficult place. Wee Ruth’s forensic position in relation to the democratic will of the people is the exact place where Nicola Sturgeon should be. However, allowing the SNP to be dragged in to resolving England’s Brexit dilemma through pushing for a second Brexit referendum may be the thing that sinks Scotland’s hopes of independence for the next 100 years. Whether they have another vote or not- NS has deserted the democratic high ground that will mean that any future indy vote will be non binding. SNP should have been pushing the Scotland solution based on the Scottish Brexit result; and distanced themselves from Westminster. It will be very difficult to progress indy now.

  9. David says:

    By voting no in the Indy Ref I accepted Scotland as part of the UK would stay in the EU but I did not even think about it neither did any one else I know .I just did not want to brake up the UK it was also what would it mean for me pension benefits etc .Not 1 leaflet canvasser phone call did I receive from anyone only the mailshot .An Independence supporter on the day told me he voted no reason we are keeping the pound and the queen anyway what is the point I have never been told who made those decisions so who was it

  10. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    So the best they can think of as a counter to IndyRef2 is

    “You all knew that there’d be an EU Ref which might result in a leave vote so therefore there has been NO MATERIAL CHANGE”


    Lies, threats and a Media Protected Fictional Constructed Character as ‘next FM of Scotland’ is all they have left in they arsenal!

  11. galamcennalath says:

    Orwell’s 1984 seems to have become the handbook of the Tories!

    Re-writing of the historical record to suit the current agenda being one of the fictional regime’s crude tactics.

  12. Al Dossary says:

    Lookie, Lookie here. 18yo school leaver, Shonagh Munro portrayed as just a plain old 18yo voter, albeit with tendeancies towards “NO” back in 2014.

    Yet here she is in 2019 as a researcher for Jackie Baillie. Specialising in the Vale of Leven hospital no doubt.

  13. Abulhaq says:

    What is evident now is that if the ballot box road to independence is frustrated then ‘nature’ will find other means. Mundell, Davidson, Gove et al are detritus of the old Scottish unionist order.
    The paradigm must ineluctably shift. If it does not, and that depends on us thinking outside convention, we are become a history foot note.

  14. Effijy says:

    I went to Kelvingroce Park today at 1pm and the crowds, the Flags, the music and the general
    Atmosphere brought a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye.

    Scots from all corners of our country, ex-pats from the USA, Canada and Australia.
    Catalans, Chinese, Ukranians, Polish and lots of Asian families and even an Asian Band.

    Wonder people making statements in support of Immigrants, EU citizens, £10 minimum wage,
    The NHS, the disabled and demands to stop Universal Discretit and its Tory creaters.

    I must salute the great effort made by disabled people obliviously in great discomfort walking such a distance.

    Many young kids there many pets dressed in Saltires and 200-300 Bikers draped in flags.

    What an uplifting day spent among the largest crowd that I’ve ever see in Glasgow in 60 years.

    I’d better mention the wonderful wings stall in amongst so many others!

    I was also delighted to hear that the BBC suggested 70,000 were there.
    That’s spot on as I was sure it was 140,000.
    Best the Beeb can do for us is to half the Truth.

    There were several million steps toward Independence today!

  15. Bob Mack says:

    It’s a lesson for life.

    If it’s a Tory and it speaks it’s a liar.

  16. Astonished says:

    Be very careful Stu. Mundell could sue. And Mundell obviously doesn’t know what the words mean. So the sheriff will have to let him win.

  17. Robert Louis says:

    Mundell lying as usual. In my opinion he is an absolute weasel of a man. Even if he wasn’t a Tory, their is nothing likeable about him. I see no evidence of any personal integrity whatsoever. He will say and do anything. Theresa May’s bag carrier in Scotland. A nothing man.

    I actually kept some of the sh*te literature the anti Scotland better together mob AND THE UK government sent, and the EU is right there, centre to their arguments against independence. I do wonder about unionists who continually state that people knew their would be an EU referendum after the indy ref, but that is simply not true – follow the links in the REV’s article above.

    I like many others on here, remember the indy ref well, and I know nobody who was thinking, well once this is over, if we lose, their will be an EU referendum. Nobody expected it, not even Westminster. Everybody expected Labour to win the next GE.

    It is a very odd thing, but I do not know of any other campaigning group, which just lies constantly, like unionists do. Do some of them actually believe the lies? Probably. But people like Mundell and Davidson know full well they are spinning a fraud to people, every single time they speak. They lie for their careers, and that is all it is about.

    Mundell and Davidson are London’s ‘house jocks’. In London it probably goes like this for Mundell; ‘Dance the ‘highland fling’ David, ho ho. Say ‘och aye’ David, oh hoho, what a jolly jape, ‘say something scottishy, David’, ho ho, tell us all how sh*te Scotland is, David… and so on. Let’s all laugh at Scotland, David. Meanwhile, Davidson the ‘house jock’ funny lady, tells jokes about how sh*te Scotland is, for her London masters.

    That is the measure of them.

  18. galamcennalath says:

    2014, the Tories were behind in the polls and everyone was being told the next WM government would be a Labour one.

    Makes you wonder what the result would have been if Scots were being advised that the Tories would win a majority in 2015. We’ll never know, but certainly it would have been more favourable to YES.

    Of course, the more politically aware know that the Tories will be in power in London inevitably and for most of the time. And the really galling thing is – we haven’t voted for them for almost 70years! Think about that. You had to be 21 to vote back then. Only the very oldest among us took part in an election where the Tories were our choice.

  19. Mad Unionist says:

    Astonished @ 6:11pm. Maybe he knows a boy called Sue.

  20. Mad Unionist says:

    I took some pics of the Unionists opposite the Millennium Hotel in George Square. Quite a civilised lot compared to the pale looking nationalist flag wavers amongst whom were IRA and Palestinian flags clearly intended to offend decent people.

  21. Abulhaq says:

    The struggle for the heart and soul of the Scottish people amounts to a kind of civil war.
    Those who oppose us are unlikely to shift their allegiance, consequently attempting conversion is fruitless.
    The SNP leadership’s jam tomorrow litany is becoming tiresome.
    There will, inevitably, be a showdown with the system…not sure ‘the many’ fully understand what that means. The British state will not go quietly.

  22. Scotspatriot says:

    Tory lie…fact !
    All the time…fact !

  23. Cubby says:

    British Nationalists (and some are mad – but that’s no excuse ) lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

    That’s all the Britnats have got – lies and deceit. Most Britnats assume it is mandatory to lie if you are a Britnat. Britnats are lacking in personal and professional integrity but do they care – of course not.

    That’s my fair comment and it is honestly held by large numbers of Scottish people.

  24. Robert Peffers says:

    Mad Unionist says: 4 May, 2019 at 5:29 pm:

    ” … I believe Mundell like the PM were both remainers. Better watch he does not sue Rev!”

    You believe a lot of things, Mad Unionist but when asked to either prove them true or alternatively explain what they really mean you slope shoulders and change the subject.

    Answer the questions you were asked to explain when you spewed up your last load of idiocy. What’s wrong? Don’t you know the answers?

  25. Turnip_ghost says:

    I wonder if Better Together can go back and answer Shonagh Munro on how putting up barriers will help young people get jobs ??

  26. Mad Unionist says:

    Abulhaq @ 6:32pm. Sharpening your sporran for the big fight then son!

  27. Abulhaq says:

    IRA & Palestinian flags have no place in a Scottish political context. That has nothing to do with decency but faith in your cause. Scottish nationalism does not need the assistance of virtue signalers.
    By the way…Palestine a repressive hell hole for gays. Liberals do not wish to know that. They don’t speak or read Arabic.

  28. Mad Unionist says:

    Robert Peffers @ 6:42pm. Sorry Robert I am not prone to be tellt what is required. However if you tell me the answers you want to hear then I will consider obliging you.

  29. Robert Peffers says:

    @Abulhaq says: 4 May, 2019 at 5:43 pm:

    ” … A leader with the balls of Alexander to just cut the ffff-ing thing is now required.
    This tragi-comedy has gone on too long. The faithful have become restive.”

    So it’s just FM/SG/SNP Baaaaad! again then?

  30. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Get ready for the numbers game: I’m going for 120, 000 souls on the streets of Glasgow today – I’m being modest, in the extreme.

  31. stewartb says:

    At the time of posting this there have been 26 separate posts – between 5.29pm and 6.47pm.

    There have been 9 appearances of the name of one individual who only yesterday on this site called the AUOB marchers today ‘Nazis’.

    How does he/she do it? They are amazingly successful in sustaining a high profile and influencing the thread.

  32. Robert Peffers says:

    @Abulhaq says: 4 May, 2019 at 6:32 pm:

    ” … The SNP leadership’s jam tomorrow litany is becoming tiresome.”

    So that’ll be FM/SG/SNP Baaaaad! again then?

  33. Dorothy Devine says:

    My heart is light because of today – tremendous , and I have Paul’s book too!

  34. Dorothy Devine says:

    Goodness me , the march is on line in the Guardian!

    I suppose bunging it in tonight means they don’t have to bother again and it will be easily buried under a pile of Ruth Davidson.

  35. Mad Unionist says:

    The definition of a politician: He is asked to stand, he wants to sit, he is expected to lie.

  36. HandandShrimp says:

    Mundell is always scrabbling for the truth. He sees it so rarely it is doubtful he would recognise it if it fell in his lap.

    Brexit is a Tory mess and it is their problem. He knows perfectly well that this mess is a game changer and lying is his only recourse. Well actually, intellectual honesty would be most people’s recourse but Mundell is a very limited individual so lying is basically all we are going to get.

    I remember in arguing for Yes back 2014 warning that this could come to pass and being told there would be no EU referendum and even if there was we wouldn’t vote to leave and that I was just scaremongering.

  37. Effijy says:

    Laughing at Sky News?
    Thought they just might have to ment the 100,000 at today’s AUOB March?
    No but someone was unjured at a Morris Dancing Fete in England.
    That made the headlines??

    Crouched down camera man doing well to make a couple of hundred Tories apear busy
    At Tory get together in Aberdenb.

    Extensive coverage of Kim Jung Yeuch telling pensioners how she will rule the world one day? lol

    If only Nicola and SNP were immoral Westminster lickspittles we could have coverage like that

  38. Scottish Steve says:

    Mundell is such a useless non-entity that even his fellow Tory colleague Ross Thomson believes the office of SoS for Scotland should be abolished and replaced with “a new Cabinet role that covers Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.”

    What would that be called then? Secretary of State for the Colonies?

  39. Robert Peffers says:

    @stewartb says: 4 May, 2019 at 6:56 pm:

    ” … How does he/she do it? They are amazingly successful in sustaining a high profile and influencing the thread.”

    And here you are adding to the disruption and you are not even making any kind of cogent argument other than you, personally don’t like a particular person’s comments. You offer no argument against that person’s comments yet attempt to castigate those who do and you complain about other posting to the person you don’t want to be here. Are your complaints any less, “distuptive”, that those of anyone else?

    Leave the moderating of Wings to Rev Stu.

  40. Petra says:

    With Westminster still holding around 85% of powers, including broadcasting, Mundell says, ‘Scotland now has the most powerful devolved Parliament in the World.’


    Mundell and Frenchgate.

    ‘A gift for semiotics.’

  41. Mad Unionist says:

    Effijy @7:30pm. We Unionists just go to the ballot box and vote. We do not need to hit the streets in silly dress and holding up the traffic. Just a simple X on a ballot paper does the trick. Mass flag waving is rather uncomfortable in this day and age. It is more desirable for the Austrian house painter.

  42. Scotspatriot says:

    Mad unionist…..just before the war2 , the British establishment was stuffed full of Nazi sympathisers. According to some accounts…it still is !
    With the merde your spreading, you know the games up. Cheerio !!

  43. Ken500 says:

    The Polls, the Polls getting it wrong again.especially with tight margins. Censored and fined so many times and just getting away with it. Getting honours and £Millions to break the code of standards. Breaking the professional code of standards. Ilegal funding and breaking data protection Laws colluded at the heart of government. 10 Downing Street. The accomplices employed there. Corruption at the heart of government,

    Liars always get found out, The Tories going down, down, down. A bunch of malicious,compulsive, habitual liars. Tory unionist politicians.

    Please, please, please people in the Borders vote him out for the sake of people in Scotland and sanity. Bye,bye and good riddance.

    Excellent March and Rally in Glasgow. It fair raises the spirt. Wonderful people, entertainment,speakers. Amazing people, It just gets better and better. What a wonderful enlightened day out with caring people. What a mixture of interesting people. A real melting pot. All caring about others. The Wings stall heaving. Thanks to the great effort of Ronnie and the crew. Well done to everyone.

    Except for one ignorant taxi driver. He started criticising the March. Folk were away to join.Started to criticise what,’Nicola Sturgeon had done to the Health service’. Well he got an earful. The ConDems cut the NHS £4Billion a year from 2015 to 2020. Cameron who promised to support the NHS. The SNP Gov had to mitigate the cuts and increase spending in Scotland £1Billion+ more. They are increasing elderly people. To £12.5Billion. One of the biggest spends in Scotland.

    There has built a marvellous new hospital in Glasgow. Brexit is scaring off the important staff. 20% of the population use 80% of the health care. The elderly. They put in and went without for it. They deserve their care. They cared for others and built up the economy. They are entitled. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other person to vote as well. Job done, over the line.

    The Scottish Gov. also brought in MUP to lower alcohol consumption to reduce health costs. Supported by all Parties except Labour. They wanted people to keep on with the drink and fags, damaging health. Fifty years of filthy Labour. Soiled lungs and livers. Nothing can be done about it. No way back once it is too late. Regrets there are a few. Too few to mention.

    Alcohol consumption was 20% higher in Scotland compared to the rest of the UK. This affected health outcomes. People died on average younger. That is now falling. In England the average age of death is falling because of the Tories.17% more elderly people have died than expected. The Tories are killing them off. Killing off their voters. The average member is male and over seventy. Dying out.

    Got another taxi. The other one did not get the fare. The next driver supported the March and Independence. A nice big tip. That’s the way to do it. Arthritis but some completed the March. Some great outfits. Too many to mention. Great March. Great day out.

    A few Unionists at George Square. Drowned out. One window along the way with a Union Jack. The occupant giving hand signals and gesturing wildly. Not very appropriate. Quite funny remarks going back.

    The Tories going down and out. Thank goodness.

  44. galamcennalath says:

    ” We do not need to hit the streets in silly dress and holding up the traffic. Just a simple X on a ballot paper does the trick. Mass flag waving is rather uncomfortable in this day and age. “

    That made me piss myself laughing …

  45. Petra says:

    ”Ruth Davidson has been caught on a live microphone saying she would rather not talk about the European elections caused by Tory problems with Brexit.

    The Scottish Tory leader was overheard rehearsing her speech in the main hall of the Scottish Tory conference in Aberdeen on Friday evening.

    Ms Davidson, who returned this week to frontline politics after six months on maternity leave, was practising key sections of the keynote address she will give on Saturday.

    She could also be heard practising jokes about SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford, former First Minister Alex Salmond, and Nicola Sturgeon.”..


    Nicola Sturgeon Twitter:- ”For some bad jokes, tired lines and ample evidence that the Tories are way out of touch with Scottish opinion on Brexit, here’s a preview of Ruth Davidson’s conference speech (courtesy of the Tories who forgot to switch the mic off during the practice).”

  46. HandandShrimp says:

    No idea why the chap with the loud hailer persists. He is impossible to understand. However, I would be disappointed if we didn’t have that tiny reminder that the Union flag is mainly waved by BNP and UKIP wing nuts. If anything it makes the massed saltires look even more welcoming.

  47. galamcennalath says:

    Tories? Spent force. Smashed on the Brexit altar. My prediction for EU election ….

    SNP 3
    Green 1
    Lab 1
    Brexit 1 (sadly)

  48. Petra says:

    Janey Godley:- “Tories have lost over 1000 seats in the heartlands of England – but we’re gonny take over Scotland.” hahshahahahah

  49. Street Andrew says:

    Have you considered the possibility that, like Ms Dogtail, David Mundell might be too stupid to know what his words mean?

  50. Hamish100 says:

    Mad dog

    Sad person aren’t you.

  51. jfngw says:

    The question now is was there more unionists in George Square than at the Tory conference, it looks a close run thing.

    First time on a march, arrived late so was pretty much at the back, didn’t arrive in Glasgow Green until about 16:20, desperately looking for a toilet by then. Ended up in Peoples Palace as the queues in the green would have resulted in a personal accident.

    Had a quick look around the stalls but to be honest my legs were too knackered by then to concentrate, I’m not young and even unhealthier than I thought.

  52. Street Andrew says:

    David Mundell may have(?)two of the six testes that need to be removed to enable us to get-on with starting a new Scottish currency.

  53. doug_bryce says:

    Anyone else think Brian Taylor is a secret YES-voter ?

  54. HandandShrimp says:


    I see the police estimate there were 30,000 to 35,000 people at Glasow Green at 5pm. I too had to take my leave as nature called so although on the march I had to find food and a loo and missed their belated count. Band playing Jefferson’s Airplane’s Someone to Love as I stumped off sounded very good though.

    Pooch was with me she is flaked out on the sofa now 🙂

  55. Davy. says:

    Congrats to all those marching today, you make us very proud.

    Mundell is full of everything that is detrimental to Scotland, he is one of the most self-centred people in existence. (people = prick)

    A question ? I checked yesterday to see when the live tory conference broadcast would be on today , as I am into mental self-abuse. No probs it would be Sat – afternoon.

    Yet today NOTHING, no live broadcast on any channel I could see, no reasons. Even my wife is querying this as one of her favourite hobbies is screaming & swearing at torys on TV.

    So does anyone know what happened to Ruthies live speech on TV. I would love to know ? for the sake of my wifes blood pressure.

  56. jfngw says:

    Using my BBC crowd estimator software I can confidently state there were around 20 attendees at the Tory conference.

  57. jfngw says:


    Not a great way to estimate the crowd as not everyone I walked with went into the green, some just left, presumably they just wanted to be in the walk.

    Woman with red hair singing on stage when I passed (although I believe I should now call her a wombman to keep some SNP movers and shakers happy), don’t know what the song was.

  58. Mad Unionist says:

    I have to laugh at you nats. Some of you clearly have had a great life being in Britain drinking and gorging yourselves. Kelvin Grove to Fleshers Haugh is a dawdle of a walk. Old Orangemen and women do it every other year. But I suppose they have the best music

  59. Dan says:

    What a great day and atmosphere in Glasgow, and like last year the turnout was huge.
    I was relatively near the front but it still took 30mins before we were able to move as the organisers were filtering in two lanes of folk due to the vast numbers in Kelvingrove Park.
    A couple of times we thought we were on our way only to find we’d suffered a bout of premature Jock motion!
    It took us over two hours to arrive at Glasgow Green which meant our group had very little time before heading back to the coach.
    Did manage an ever so brief visit to the very busy Wings stall to say hi to Liz and Ronnie before having to rush off and assist with bus marshalling duties.

    There are some great images and vids that capture the large turnout at #AUOBGlasgow on twitter.

  60. frogesque says:

    Back from AUOB Glasgow. Reports of 120k to 150k marchers and a good few spectators as well.

    Shortbread’s take on it; 35k at Glasgow Green.


  61. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

    No point counting the crowd in Glasgow Green at 17:00.

    Folks walking could have baled out with threaten rain during the March, been physically unable to march the whole way, need the toilet or, like me, knackered after the walk and headed home and in the door before 17:00.

    We need the police to give us numbers for the March!

  62. Phronesis says:

    Inspirational, buoyant and full of optimism –the YES movement marched in Glasgow today. This march will never end until Scotland is independent.

    Scotland is no longer a country that ‘might’ or ‘should’ or ‘could’ do things. We are living in a country that ‘will’, that ‘shall’, that ‘can’ act, and can act right now to promote collective autonomy and develop its status as a small outward looking international nation state. Today’s march was one expression of that collective will.

  63. frogesque says:

    @Mad Onion.

    Parked car at Glasgow Green, walked to Kelvin Grove for start of march then back to GG with the march to then walk round stage and stalls and finally pick up the car again. Also had the dog, back pack and the flag with me.

    Only 30-50 of manky Jack’s disciples bothered to turn out. Not the thousands predicted.

    Your precious Union is finished.

  64. Sandy says:

    Well done Stu, filleted the little weasel good and proper.

    Tories are terrified.

    Every time I see mention of Mundell online I shall reply with a link to this post.

  65. H Scott says:

    BBC up to their usual tricks mentioning 30-35,000 at Glasgow Green. That was the rally, not the march. No mention of the police estimate of 70-100,000 or the organisers’ of around 100,000.
    When the BBC reported the London anti-Brexit march – live coverage of course – they only used the organisers’ estimate.

  66. Frank Gillougley says:

    Phronesis 9.05

    Couldn’t have put it better. The AUOB march is a marvellous expression of a collective will. The sheer length of the procession and flags continuously coming over the brow of Blythswood down to George Square was a sight to behold. A total cross-section of society. Wonderful!

  67. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Loads of great images emerging of today’s AUOB.

    Here’s one of the best – time-lapse of the march going over Charing Cross.

    Just when you think it’s over, they keep coming!


  68. jfngw says:

    Is Mundell actually competent at anything, he can’t even lie without it being exposed in less than 30 secs. I’ve been around for a while and seen my fair share of useless politicians but he has set the bar of uselessness at such a high level I fear nobody will get near it for decades.

    Unless of course he’s saying that Ruth Davidson wasn’t speaking for the Conservative party. After all she is only a junior office holder, not even in the cabinet, not actually at the top table, more a Team Leader in Scotland.

  69. robert alexander harrison says:

    Lets remember in 2015 labour handed the conservatives that win when ed millaband surrendered the election with the line and i qoute id rather lose the election than work with the snp turning 75% of England voters away on the day so basically English voters was all die hard cons mostly thats how they won.

  70. Effijy says:

    Mad Unionist.

    Yes Unionists in England don’t wear the Kikt or
    March down the streets.

    You lot wear Morris Dancing gear and have the main idiot
    In the troop hit you with pigs bladder on a stick.

    Dis-May at Welsh Tory Conference with 99 people there and
    One asks an unscripted question and gets thrown out for being
    A trouble maker! lol

    Not one bit of trouble with 100,000 marching Glasgows Streets.
    No Stabbings in Glasow unlike Unionist London.

    PS that isn’t an X your pals put in the box, it’s their signature!

    Frankie Boyle noted a rise in the Far Right Fascist vote in Spain’s elections.
    He didn’t know the English ex-pats got the vote over there!

  71. gus1940 says:

    Anybody watching Davidson’s ‘speech’ on TV tomorrow should make sure to stock up on sick bags.

  72. Hamish100 says:


    You make so many basic mistakes to show up your ignorance of Scotland.

    I give you just one -Kelvin Grove , is actually one word. Incidentally the OO usually try and pass Churches on the way being such good Christians though for the life of me I don’t know why they spit on clergy. Is it an Initiation rite.

  73. Cubby says:

    Frogesque @9.12pm

    Isn’t “Manky Jack ” the guy who UKIP expelled because he was too much of a racist even for them.

  74. HandandShrimp says:


    Holocaust denial was I think his sin. He really is classic BNP material. A credit to the Union fleg 😉

  75. Cubby says:

    The only complaint about today’s march I have is that The Wee Ginger Dugs book was sold out when I went to buy it. Dorothy Devine and others got there first.

  76. Cubby says:


    As you are into detailed analysis do you fancy checking the time of the Mad Britnats posts against the time when Truthless Davidson and Liar Mundell were giving their speeches. We might find the Mad Britnats true identity. Or as most of us suspect he is just a moronic Mad Britnat.

  77. jfngw says:

    Having looked back at the last 100 years it was interesting to find, ignoring the national government elections, the Tories have only ever twice won a majority in Scotland (1924 & 1955) and only by one seat. They have rarely been the voice of Scotland.

  78. Eric McLean says:

    Fucking brilliant.
    That’s all I have to say regarding the Tory-Labour (Westminster) Brexit disaster. Imagine.. May & Corbyn desperately arguing that the electorate want Brexit to be completed, and idiot Davidson claiming the two were close to a deal…

    Called that wrong, didn’t you Ruth?

    Now everyone calls for another referendum on the EU. It’s the only sensible option, and it shows Davidson, May and Corbyn for the idiots that they are.

    Outclassed, out thought and out of time. All three need to go home. Yer teas oot!!

  79. yesindyref2 says:

    Got to George Square off the train about 2, the UJs were in place, couple of saltires behind them with bigger flags ha! So had time to have a sandwich and whip over the tobacconists opposite the CH for 6 Penguins for £1.

    March took 1 hour 40 to pass, I was opposite Costa, had a sandwich baord YES as well as other stuff 🙂 Police were great, had a bit of a laugh with a couple, as did others.

    Then down to the Green at the back of the march, met a few wingers, good to meet you old and new, then knackered, off for the train home. Glad I didn’t go for Kelvingrove, not well enough for that yet, the square to Green and back to central was enough for me – and glad my wife picked me up from the other end off the train.

    But allegedly this is some footage of Kelvingrove before everyone got kitted up with YES regalia.

  80. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Think you are being a wee bit conservative (small c) @ galamcennalath says at 8:06 pm

    My prediction for EU election ….

    SNP 4
    Green 1
    FibDem or Brexit 1

    Tories from Scotland and British Labour in Scotland have pissed on their chips North of the Border with their Xenophobic dog whistle anti immigration rhetoric.

  81. yesindyref2 says:

    I think there’s a good chance of that, it’s what I’d have posted.

  82. jfngw says:

    The biggest threat in the EU elections is not the unionists or even Farage, it’s that pro-EU people do not go out and vote. We saw what complacency did in 2017, it gave us a vacuous mouth as the MSM saviour.

  83. Mad Unionist says:

    Hamish 100. You have conveniently forgotten that a large section of the clergy you refer to have been fu@king children for centuries. Now go to sleep you have had your fascist flag waving rally day. See you next year.

  84. Dan says:

    Re. European elections. I understand the closing date for voter registrations is the 7th May so that’s only a couple of days to chase folk up who aren’t yet registered.
    I’m hoping to hand in half a dozen or so completed forms to the local electoral office on Monday from currently unregistered folk in my area.
    Feet are tired after today so will dig out the bike to pedal around my EU National neighbours. Rural location so miles between houses.

  85. Effijy says:

    ngw says:
    4 May, 2019 at 10:51 pm
    Having looked back at the last 100 years it was interesting to find, ignoring the national government elections, the Tories have only ever twice won, 1924 and 1955.

    Not strictly true as there were a number of parties on the right
    Who scraped a majority such Liberal Conservatives and Unionist Party.

    Tories won once in Scotland and it was nearly 100 years ago.
    No one of voted at that time is alive today.

  86. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Aye complacency about the SNP winning seats for MEPs will be the difference between 4 MEPs and 3.

    SNP, Pro Indy, Pro EU must Get The Vote Out on the 23rd.

  87. Andy says:

    Dan says:
    4 May, 2019 at 11:23 pm

    I’m hoping to hand in half a dozen or so completed forms to the local electoral office on Monday from currently unregistered folk in my area.

    Bank Holiday on Monday so offices wil be closed.

  88. Mad Unionist says:

    Unionists should boycott the EU vote and not accept any result as did the fascists with the EU referendum.

  89. Capella says:

    BBC reporting that the police say there were 30 – 35,000 at The Green is just another way of lying – by omission. There were obviously around 120,000 on the march as shown by the Independence Live images of the marchers streaming past Charing Cross.

    Thank goodness we have Independence Live to provide the images that the MSM refuse to show. They are having a fundraiser ATM. Worth sending them some dosh so they can keep on recording the road to independence. Nobody else will.

  90. Hamish100 says:

    Mad dog unionists and fascists are the same? Discuss 20 marks

  91. Dan says:

    Andy says:
    4 May, 2019 at 11:51 pm

    “Bank Holiday on Monday so offices will be closed.”

    Hmm, deadline states by the 7th. Wonder if that means handed in or posted through their letter box before 11.59pm on the 6th or they’d be accepted during the 7th…

    Thanks for the heads up. Might have to cycle round with my laptop and get them to register online.

    On a side note, postal vote applications can only be made for someone that is already registered on the electoral role. A postal vote form submitted by itself will not be accepted to register an unregistered person.
    Plus, from past experience make sure the postal vote form actually prints with the proper highlighted signature box. For some reason we’ve had forms print without this highlighted signature box, and the signature must be contained within this box as the form is scanned for signature verification purposes.

  92. Hamish100 says:

    Mad dog more angry than normal. Must be seeing over 100000 patriots happily walking in Glasgow compated to the 20 sour faced britnats at George Sq. Was he one? Lol Of course not.

  93. Mad Unionist says:

    Capella @ 12:07am. The number of fascists on the march do not matter. The ballot box is what matters. The Scots voted to remain in the Union and the British voted to leave the fascist EU. Now go to bed and ensure your thingy has the batteries charged.

  94. Mad Unionist says:

    Hamish 100 @ 12:14 am. I was in George Sq today but after all you nutters had passed. Spent some of my pension in the Counting. I suppose in years to come you can tell your grand weans you were on the march and they will say but we are still in the Union.

  95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I posted this on the front page but thought I’d repeat it on this “page 2” as it seems to be more active than “page 1”.


    Kudos to RT UK.

    They have a 3 hour 43 minute video of the whole march to Glasgow Green, done with no commentary, kinda like ‘candid camera’. There’s a break in the video at 2 hours 21 minutes until 2H 39M, when they start showing Glasgow Green from a high viewpoint.

  96. yesindyref2 says:

    I think Mad Unionist was a bit disappointed it wasn’t like this today:

  97. Famous15 says:

    We need the village idiot to remind us what idiocy looks like just as we need the ‘mad unionist’.to remind us etc.

  98. Mad Unionist says:

    The Scottish fascists are on a roll time for the scratcher.

  99. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I have to ask – what is “a roll time for the scratcher”?

    Is it something that I have not become acquainted with in my 60-odd years on this planet, or is it just an example of alcohol-induced crap grammar?

  100. Famous15 says:

    Mad Unionist is a Tory cult.

  101. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Sorry it’s only in German but the march today, AUOB, has already been noted in Germany. 🙂

    An impressive display of the wish for a second, new referendum according to the nationwide “Spiegel” magazine.

    Only bum note was the 30-35k number of marchers but they got that from the English Guardian and not the real numbers from the organisers or maybe the police.

  102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Graf Midgehunter.

    Here’s the translation.

  103. Molly says:

    I see the Heralds headline is ‘SNP declare war on cybernats’.

    Besides the obvious click bait ,let’s cause a furore nature of the headline,you would think

    with the Secretary of State openly lying,

    the defence minister being sacked under strange circumstances

    with William being booed ( was it personal not that I actually care ) or because a church has a service about nuclear weapons,

    with EU elections in 3 weeks,

    with no one knowing what’s happening with Brexit,

    with a firm wanting to build in the a National Park

    with thousands marching in support of Independence, their might be a few interesting details behind the headlines but no it’s about the SNP .

    Of course the obvious response would be to get tore into Alyn Smith and say get your own house in order BUT we won’t do that because if there’s a rift develops who would benefit ?

    Jeez at one of the most exciting and anything could happen times in Scottish politics is also the most boring and repetitive times in Scottish politics .

    We have to get Independence if only to get away from the most parochial, obvious, submissive in some cases no very good media .

    Vote for the Union and we’ll bore you into submission by recycling headlines every two weeks instead of every four.

  104. Camz says:

    “Tory is liar” – Shocker!

    Where’s the news? 😀

  105. Dorothy Devine says:

    Molly , it appears the herald has a death wish – indeed lets hope its shareholders may even be contemplating helping it out of its misery as we discuss its uselessness.

    How sad that the once mighty , even handed Glasgow Herald has become a parochial , small minded , grammatically and content challenged pamphlet.

  106. Dorothy Devine says:

    Graf Midgehunter and Brian , thanks for that , I hope that the young lady in that cracking picture realises she is an international star!

  107. Ken500 says:

    Troubles signing up for National subscription. Most are reluctant to give any form of revenues to the Herald.

    Register to donate. Try to sign in, Then the e-mail and pasword are said to be incomparable. Wrongly. Click ‘change the password’ but no link comes through.

    Some Independence advocates should concentrate on delivering. Not criticising Indy supporters. (Cybernats) Giving the opposite ammunition to criticise. Media fodder. Especially after a great March ignored by the MSM liars again.

    Eddie Barnes from the failed Scotsman JP. The lies. Now Davidson spinner. More lies. The other annoying one.

    Murray condemns members of his own party. After Dugdale bails out. Another one gone, another one down. Another one hits the dust, What is he doing in a Party he condemns. Breaking the Representation of the people’s Act. Another one looking for another post before he is voted out?

  108. Heart of Galloway says:

    Wonderful march yesterday in a sea of positivity and hope. Spoke to one of the pipe band which led us through the city.
    He said the band came from all over – including Newcastle and abroad – and that they had only practiced together a couple of times.
    The musicianship was of the highest standard and I told the piper, who hailed from Shetland, that they had done an amazing job.
    That AUOB band made a major contribution to what was a truly uplifting day.

  109. “The broadcaster’s political editor Brian Taylor gets uncharacteristically indignant with Mundell’s response, and well he might.”

    Crivens – Mundell has just set up an invaluable piece of Propaganda for the SNP that even Davidson cannae squirm her way out of. This was the Scottish Secretary of State – in an interview – blatantly lying and misrepresentation of events. How many of us/you knew about the upcoming referendum on the EU Cameron was formulating??? Nicola S should be asking that one in Holyrood – cos that’s a doozy.

    Mundell for all of his failings and bluster and patheticness went beyond the pale in that interview showing just how corrupt he is in anything. I wonder how many good honest commentators are going to pick it up and run with it?

    I for one will be splurging this as much as possible – and I urge others to do the same.

    Thanks Rev – you’re invaluable.

  110. Colin Alexander says:

    Some days make you proud to be Scottish or support Scotland’s freedom.

    Some days reassure you: Scotland shall be free of this rotten Union.

    Yesterday was such a day.

    Well done and thank you.

  111. North chiel says:

    “ Eric Maclean @ 1102 pm “ . The Britnat establishment are openly desperate now for Brexit to be completed . The state propaganda outlets constant non stop “ brainwashing” of the viewers with the complete myth that the slump in the Labcon vote was entirely due to “ people just wanting the deal done”. The fact being that the pro EU local election vote ( Libdem & greens in England & Alliance in NI actually indicates the exact opposite of the claptrap spouted by May . She is really desperate now ahead of another “ kicking “ for the Tories in the EU vote and she knows full well that another drubbing for her party will mean the end of her “ dictatorship” . She will attempt to drag Corbyn into the “ Brexit blame game” . However, perhaps he is too “ long in the tooth” to be “ conned” . She is well aware that “ the precious precious union “ is in grave danger and will be no doubt trying to persuade Corbyn that “ a deal would be in the national ( Britnat interest) to attempt to prevent the break up of “ her & (his ) country”. Desperate times for the establishment and the state propaganda outlets are giving it their all .

  112. Ken500 says:

    The AUOB band depends on contributions, They are excellent and gave a great performance on the Green.

    The other Sikh? drummers were enthusiastic too. Really good.

    What happened to Tommy Sheridan. Usually there?

    Great effort and performance by everyone. Including MC. Trying to return lost keys etc. Thanks to the guy who recharged someone’s’ phone in his car when it run oot. It was really appreciated. Really brilliant nice folk. What a great atmosphere. The millions who cannot manage always miss out, Shame.

    Labour is now bailing the Tories out. What a disgraceful performance. What a bunch of useful parasites are the unionists politicians. They are getting voted out. They do not care about people. All they want to do is try and save themselves. With a bad EU deal. Useless troughers they want to ruin the world economy. Cable crowing. He knew about child abuse and covered it up. They really are disgusting people. Liars. Liars always get found out.

  113. Clootie says:

    BBC Scotland main site – “Scotlands drug problem” , ” Ruth Davidsonson says…deliver Brexit”.
    The only march comment is on the Scottish Politics page but not a headline.

    Did any TV news programme even mention the March?

  114. Abulhaq says:

    @Graf Midgehunter
    Grüß Gott!
    Tens of thousands is suggestive of a lot, more than easily countable.
    Stuff the Guardian!

  115. sassenach says:

    Clootie @8-37

    “Did any TV news programme even mention the March?”

    Par for the course, I suppose, but thank God for the internet!!

    It was a spectacular day, it’s coming, folks!

  116. Contrary says:

    The march yesterday in glasgow was a remarkable sight, I watched a lot of it on the live stream, and seeing woodlands road and Charing Cross jam packed for hours was awe inspiring, really impressive – well done to everyone that got off their arse and got out there to show support (unlike me), it really did bring tears to my eyes.

    Given that the marches bring good positive affirmation of support for independence, I have been curious lately as to why wings, and other independence blogs, avoid mentioning them? Is there some nuance I’m missing?

    I’d have thought bringing them as news to a wider audience would be beneficial – before and after. But all I see are the MSM telling us what Ruth Davidson thinks. Does Scotland and its people matter to anyone, or is all about power plays?

  117. Wullie says:

    A carnival of 100,000 plus marching through Glasgow and barely a mention of it.

    With the march setting off at 1.30 pm the tail end of the march did not reach Glasgow Green until 4.35pm.

    Absolutely huge attendance with the media effectively airbrushing the match out of existence.

    Maybe we need 100,000 volunteers to forcibly open up the eyes of the unionist bastards who seek to impose their boot on our faces.

    Democracy changes fuck all in this country because it’s all a manipulated sham.

  118. Abulhaq says:

    Regarding media coverage, events staged at weekends risk being ignored or given desultory reportage. Anything in Scotland is ‘regional news’ anyway. The weekend is when serious news, anywhere, gets short shrift from most providers.
    Extinction Rebellion activities occurred on weekdays, were disruptive and got coverage. Of course they also took place in London,

  119. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ian Brotherhood, Turmeric! Supposedly good for loads of things but my interest was arthritic pain.

    I have been taking it spasmodically for a fortnight – it obviously isn’t good for memory – so I’ll reserve judgement on its effectiveness .

    If I am bouncing about like the proverbial spring chicken next time we meet then it’ll be a thumbs up for turmeric.

  120. Hamish100 says:

    The BBC promoting the smith trust-
    yeh the one Kezia is going to do.

    Nae harm tae the daughters but they are part of the elite. Public school, Morningside raised, establishment mammy in the House of Lords and our BBC correspondent sookin up.

    Inspirational project living in the inspirational world. Yeh so much inspiration , Kezia speaking about ethos.
    Yip the labour middle classes have no idea of the working classes looking for the next 2 bob bit for the meter or nowadays looking for food for their family. Public service or self serving. Take your pick.

  121. Capella says:

    It didn’t take long for BBC Scotland to get Kezia on the radio. Interview of Catherine Smith and Kezia Dugdale re the John Smith Institute. The long interview with Douglas Fraser on now. Hagiography alive and well.

  122. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:

    “Hi Graf Midgehunter.

    Here’s the translation.”
    🙂 🙂 Thanks.

  123. Capella says:

    Strangely, those experts in democracy are at a loss to explain the loss of trust in politicians. Maybe it’s social media?

    Exposing the lies and mendacity of politicians isn’t considered as a cause. Kezia thinks referendums are divisive being binary YES/NO, LEAVE/REMAIN etc. She must think Switzerland is a cesspool of division. They have many referendums a year. Clue: quite the opposite.

  124. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 5 May, 2019 at 9:12 am:

    ” … Ian Brotherhood, Turmeric! Supposedly good for loads of things but my interest was arthritic pain.”

    Turmeric is a safe natural anti-inflammatory. It is not a pain killer. Arthritis hurts because it inflames, usually joints, so it prevents the inflammation happening so it is quite difficult to judge that it is actually working.

    Long term reports, by no less than The Mao Clinic, state that it does help in many conditions simply because many conditions inflame the site they infect.

  125. Dorothy Devine says:

    Was a tad bored so wandered around various papers online.

    Visited the DM to find they have published an epic ‘Ruth Davidson
    is great’ article complete with the family album of photos.

    Went round another few and wondered if I have imagined an afternoon of Saltires and bonhomie.

  126. ronnie anderson says:

    Cubby you can get Wee Ginger Dug book from his page via post .

    Nice to meet U yesterday.

    I notice that the Pipe Band is being referred to as Auob , the band was started by George Kempik & a few others its name is S**R Alba.

    Wings O Scotland stall donated £ 20 to the Pipe Band & that wouldn’t have been the case if it was a Auob offshoot .

    More on Donations from WoS stall when I fully recover from lack of sleep & like the WoS volunteers big Thanks once again Betty Boop/Jim Thomson /Liz G Wee Anne Jenkins/ BDTT working hard all day KINAKERED .

  127. Calum McKay says:

    tories are unravelling, Mundell’s comments this weekend are gold dust for future elections.

    To stay in the EU staying in the uk was core to bitter together campaign. This would have swayed the vote of many of the EU citizens livi;ng in Scotland at the time and many pro Europeans.

    Basically the tories are running scared of independence, this Mundell incident is at the lower end of dirty tricks we can expect.

    If it were not for the Scottish press and bbc in Scotland we would already be free!

  128. Tatu3 says:

    Dorothy Devine @ 9.12. I’ve been on turmeric for 3 weeks now, also for arthritis. Have read it can take up to 4 weeks for any improvement. Fingers crossed

  129. Just looked at the BBC News Website. There was no mention of the Independence March on their Home, UK, England, NI or Wales sections. The headline on the Scotland section was about the Scottish Drug Problem. Then, featured in boxes came Traffic Free Edinburgh, Rogue Puppy Farmers, Davidson’s Tories Face Wake Up Call; and Motorcyclist Killed in Lorry Collision.

    Below the line in the list of other stories came Thousands Take Part in Independence March.

    How come tens of thousands of ordinary Scottish people taking to the streets is less important than 120 Tories hiding in Aberdeen even given the fact that their top leaders had turned up to support the next First Minister?

    Of course, the BBC represents a wide selection of stories and not everyone agrees with their choices. See what I did there? I complained about BBC coverage of an important national event and then I answered my own complaint, thus cutting out the middleman.

    However, it was a great day. Well done everybody.

  130. Robert Peffers says:

    @Graf Midgehunter says: 5 May, 2019 at 9:56 am:
    ” … Brian Doonthetoon says:
    “Hi Graf Midgehunter.
    Here’s the translation.”

    The German paper was only quoting, “The Guardian”, and thus misreporting the same numbers of 30,000 to 35,000 while the attendance was actually over 100,000.

    The marchers were either extremely slow marchers or the Guardian’s estimation is way off.

    From the first marchers arrival to the last marchers reaching Glasgow Green took over 3 hours. Who are the Guardian trying to fool? Even then there were those who didn’t or couldn’t march who went to the Rally directly.

    The German paper has a comments section but when I tried to comment the translation app reverted to German and I don’t do German.

  131. galamcennalath says:

    There is only one way we are going to see a change in the MSM BritNat bias…. gain independence.

    They will talk up their glove puppets, ignore real news, veneer over the Union’s failings, push a Scotland is shite narrative, and do everything they can to disrupt the democratic process until they have lost the final battle.

    The defence of their Union now consists entirely of attempting to undermine the democratic process. The tipping point has almost been reached where a majority of people see through this and aren’t happy what they now see.

  132. A C Bruce says:

    The Herald war on cybernats article.

    With “friends” like Angus Robertson, Stewart McDonald and Alyn Smith who needs enemies.

  133. Mad Unionist says:

    Independant Woman @ 10:14am. Those issues are far more important than a bunch of fairies prancing round my great city holding up the traffic and disturbing the piece. I had to walk from the Central Stn to George Sq for a pint because of the traffic jams.

  134. Effijy says:

    Mad Unionist.

    You are mad you know!
    You arrive at the Train Station and want a pint.
    The Station has 3 bars in it and a dozen around it.
    You had to walk 3 blocks to get a pint at Independace Square
    Because cars were backed up?
    Were you looking to get a cab or hitch hike 3 blocks?

    This a my last response to you but rest assured an Independant Scotland will be there to support
    Those with mental health issues and Butchers Aprions above their beds.

    Good Luck to you from all nasty cybernats.

  135. Dan says:

    If there truly is no appetite for Independence you would think the controversial state broadcaster aka BBC, and the unionist owned press would be broadcasting and publishing pics or vids of the entire “minuscule” turnout rather than their carefully selected and cropped pish.

    There will be footage somewhere. Trying to tell me there was a chopper in the air monitoring us but it didn’t happen to have a camera switched on or bother filming the crowds or the complete line of marchers from start to finish…Aye right…

  136. manandboy says:

    David Mundell is to lying what grass is to the colour green.

    Not that he is exceptional among this generation of Unionist politicians.

  137. Patrick Roden says:

    RE: our resident ‘dafty’ Mad British Nationalist.

    He posts on Scot goes Pop as GWC (previously Glasgow Working Class) and it doesn’t take an FBI profiler to see they are the same person.

    He changed to GWC because he made a blunder while commenting on SGP which gave his identity away.

    His parents had came over to Scotland from Northern Ireland and were very successful business people. They were big supporters of the Tories as was GWC.

    So our mad friend is a Tory, who’s enjoyed the fruits of mummy and daddies sweat, and he doesn’t want us Scots to do anything that would rock his very comfortable and privileged life-style.

    His style is unmistakable, he is like a yelping puppy that will do anything to get your attention.

    If you have a name that he considers makes you Irish (like Patrick) he will immediately call you out for this using Paidrig) etc (He can’t hide his bigoted NI upbringing )

    yep yelp, look at me, look at me, that’s the mad British nationalist, in a nutshell..

    Best ignored.

  138. Effijy says:

    Had a glance at all of the newspapers in my wee local shop.
    Not one of those available there had a front page word about
    100,000 people Marching through Glasgiw?

    You don’t get t to use the word newspaper or journalist if you
    Need to hide or distort the biggest event that took place anywhere
    In the country.

  139. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mr Peffers and Tatu3, thanks for the information , fingers crossed indeed! ( and remember to take it!)

    I cheated on the march yesterday and walked about a mile to join it because my hip was giving me jip.

    Strangely today it feels fine and is pain free despite what must have been a 3 mile walk yesterday – something to do with use it or lose it perhaps?

  140. Marcia says:

    I see the Herald on Sunday have recycled their cybernats story again. When are they going to look at the abusive unionist online followers who are 100% worse.

    Here is a close up of some of them;

  141. Ken500 says:

    Chris McEleny and Gavin Brown gave goid speeches at Glasgow Green. Great time,

  142. Ken500 says:

    Rev Stu will get rid of any mad agitators, it just takes time, Better to ignore then trying to wind folk up. They disappear more quickly. Nom de plume obvious.

  143. The word is spelled ‘independent’. There is no ‘a’ in the word.

  144. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dan at 10:46 am.

    You typed,
    “There will be footage somewhere.”

    Apart from the videos at IndependenceLive,

    I refer you to my comment of some hours ago,

  145. Ken500 says:

    There were brief traffic hold ups, it was still easy to find other routes avoiding the March route. The Glasgow grid system accomodates that. There are adjoining routes. Easy accesss. Parallel. Especially on foot. Cut through. Still easy for other traffic finding alternative routes, it was only for a few hours for the whole March. Little inconvenience.

    Glasgow/Ranger clashed cause more congestion as some square up to each other.

    There were Rangers supporters on the March with their strip/colours on.

  146. Capella says:

    @ Patrick Roden – the best way to deal with it – apart from complete ignoral on the thread – is to contact Stu via the CONTACT page and complain about abusive comments, specially if there is a racist element.

  147. Ken500 says:

    Great IndyLive videos. Like being there. Getting the experience. Great atmosphere. Donation+

  148. Republicofscotland says:

    Well the BBC’s “Scottish” Politics show, should really be named the Unionists in Scotland’s Politics show. Apart from a wee dig at Pete Wishart, and a five second glimpse of the AUOB independence march yesterday, the entire show was a unionist talk in.

  149. Ken500 says:

    ”Cybernats’ article will be made up. The quotes will have been taken out of context and date etc, To try and cause division. The usual made up Herald nonsense. Not worth the paper it is produced on.

    Herald readership failing. National readership subscription rising. If they get their website sorted out. Typical Newsquest, Herald not newsworthy and it shows. Just more lies. No doubt.

  150. Dan says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon 11:15 am

    Aye, I was aware of RT filming even before we had started the march as a member of our group found it with his smartphone.
    My point was that “our own” media and press could back up their “No appetite for Indy” narrative if genuine footage showed a crowd of Indy supporters as pathetic in numbers as say… the FUDs (Forever Unionist Diehards) standing at George Square yesterday.

    Re. Turmeric and aches and pains. Folk may want to check out the properties of the plant Comfrey and a poultice of its leaves and stalks.
    Some may scoff at non-mainstream pharmaceutical treatments but they can work.
    I was to be left with significant facial scarring due to a skin graft after the removal of a basal cell carcinoma. I treated it myself with a single vitamin C tablet crushed up, mixed with a small amount of water to create a solution and regularly applied topically to the area. Apparently certain body / blood types this can work.
    My oncologist was somewhat miffed as to how I had cured myself without his scalpel being used! That single vitamin C tablet probably saved the SNHS 1000s of pounds for an operating room and staff.

  151. Sarah says:

    @Dan: in case my various skin things go wrong, would vit C work for an AB+, please?

  152. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    “The German paper was only quoting, “The Guardian”, and thus misreporting the same numbers of 30,000 to 35,000 while the attendance was actually over 100,000.”
    That’s correct, which was why I wrote:

    “Only bum note was the 30-35k number of marchers but they got that from the English Guardian and not the real numbers from the organisers or maybe the police.”
    “The German paper has a comments section but when I tried to comment the translation app reverted to German and I don’t do German”
    As a fluent speaker of German and living outwith Scotland, I spent a lot of my time in the run-up to Indy.Ref.1 writing or commenting to various German newspapers, TV stations/ARD. ZDF etc. about the truth behind the YES movement.

    At that time they received most of their information and world view from the usual outlets in the UK. The BBC, Reuters, government sources etc. so, lo and behold that’s what got transmitted to the wider public here.

    This time around, especially because of Brexit, the Germans (and others) have a much better understanding of the true situation so that we’ll get/have better publicity for our cause.

    BTW. the “Spiegel” has an English version.

  153. Legerwood says:

    A C Bruce says:
    5 May, 2019 at 10:29 am
    “”The Herald war on cybernats article.

    With “friends” like Angus Robertson, Stewart McDonald and Alyn Smith who needs enemies.””

    So you did not read the articles then but read the headline and, just as the Herald wanted you to do, went coursing after the hare they set running.

    Pretty measured comments from the 3 men and criticism of the No extremists in equal measure plus a warning from Alyn Smith about foreign interference and false flags.

    I would have thought by now that people on here were savvy enough not to give vent to knee jerk reactions in response to provocative, click bait headlines that do not match the article’s content or intent. Seems not

  154. A C Bruce says:

    “Cybernats’ article will be made up. The quotes will have been taken out of context and date etc,”

    No, it’s not made up. Both Alyn Smith and Angus Robertson refer to it in their twitter accounts this morning.

  155. Dan says:

    @Sarah at 11:56 am

    I really don’t know why or what physiological differences are relevant for the treatment to work or not.
    I only heard about this being a factor from a brief chat with an oncologist that had a holiday home in my area after I had told them what I had done. They were not the assigned oncologist that was to treat me.
    Bottom line is folk think I’m enough of a butthead already so didn’t want half my snout cut off and replaced with the skin off my arse!

  156. A C Bruce says:

    Legerwood at 12.02 pm.

    They took a blunderbuss to the independence movement. They’re undermining it.

    Screed after screed of attack when we all know there are a limited number of nutjobs in all movements. The SNP are not responsible for them and cannot control them. They can appeal to them and throw them out of the party, if they’re members, but that’s the limit of what they can do.

    But these three apparently think we should take ownership of them and what, apologise for them? Atone for them? Bizarre!

  157. Bobp says:

    My feet are killing today, but absolutely worth it. What a day, what a march with the proper representatives of Scotland.

  158. Colin Alexander says:

    SNP site.

    No mention of the AUOB march for indy there either.

    Which SNP politicians participated?

  159. Capella says:

    @ BDTT – thx for the link to the RT video which covers the whole march. The section from a bridge gives a good impression of the sheer size of the march. From 48 mins 20 secs on.

    Just as well Kremlin funded Russian government mouthpiece RT can get a camera for the day, unlike the BBC.

  160. gus1940 says:

    Brilliant move to have the YES Pipers lead yesterday’s march but whose bright idea was it to have them wear the ridiculous enormous floppy blue bonnets?

  161. Robert Peffers says:


    I see in the SMSM, “The Usual Suspects”, have achieved their goal.

    They actively got at the FM/SG/SNP in every comment thread and now some from the FM/SG/SNP are openly hitting back and who can blame them?

    Now there really is a civil war within the independence movement and, “The usual Suspects”, are no doubt proud of themselves for getting what they set out to do to be so successful.

  162. chicmac says:

    The SMSM scatter gun approach is now evolving into a blunderbus.

    Boris got there first South of the Border with his ‘£350 million a week for the NHS’ claim,… but then,… it did work.

  163. ronnie anderson says:

    gus 1940 whit ur U tryin tae dey pish off the Dundonians , ever hear of the Blue Bonnets .

  164. Confused says:

    Against my better judgement I took a “National” yesterday … big article from a smith female about how keza’s appointment was the result of an “exhaustive worldwide search” – and there she was, all along, right there !

    – made me think of sauron, looking for the one ring of power or prince charming and the glass slipper … well, no really – aye so it was

    – cue 1960s scifi spy movie action of the electronic cards being processed by computer and out popping

    Dugdale, Kezia
    Special Operations and Subversion

    – there is only ONE person for the mission … !!! RIGHT.

    but look on the bright side – she’s off the pitch, bugged out, had it – we should probably never see her again (but you never know)

    unfortunately, like some deep physical law – the CONSERVATION OF SHIT – as keza pops out, ruthie comes back in.

    aw fuck.

    – and cue the usual nonsense journalism, inc. martin kettle in the guardian, showing that, when it comes to the union there is NO SUCH THING as the (english) “liberal left”.

    The REV has been portrayed as the loser in the keza affair, despite the sheriff bending the legal space time continuum to make it so – but make no mistake – he took Keza out the game – he exhausted her, and the weapon was – RIDICULE – the constant taking-her-apart – her statements, her turnarounds, the lack of logic, and it must have ground her down, esp. as every day she had to face – the FM – taking far more intense shit than she had to, but brushing it off …

    – another day, another wings article!? oh shit.

    – the guardian a while back tried to do a puff piece on keza – they were trying to big her up – woman – yay! – lesbian – yay! – labour – yay! – lets get labour back on track in scotland for some real soshaliszmmmm … blah blah blah … but it didnt work out; the overall impression it gave was – keza admitting

    “I’m a bit shit TBH – that nikki sturgeon’s really at the top of her game – but she’s had longer at it”

    – it was like that whiny kid in school, “I know you got 95 and I got 68, but I never studied and you just swot all the time …”

    RD – needs to be constantly mocked and ridiculed, the constant drip of scorn, wearing thru the concrete; no doubt she has been protected, perhaps even seen as a reliable pair of hands for the “Big Job” at westminster (-google image search for gillrays – the wh0res last shift – think of treeza – its uncanny) – but she has seriously never been tested, its like “the word” is out on her (very suspicious, like she has “friends”)

    – at some point, maybe due to hubris, she has to take on a real interview and she will get roasted – she only sings one song –

    the angry shoolboy says nicola sturgeon stole my dinner money

    BBC once had a semi decent interview prog called “hardtalk” – alas, they would show it at 2am or thereabouts (Im a nightowl) – during the first indyref they got alistair darling on it, for once not thrown it underarm and he was floundering – there were interesting admissions

    “of course scotland could succeed as an independent nation … ”
    – whut ? huh ?
    – shit, must press record … !

    something needs to be done about RD – she will make a mistake, eventually, maybe a foreign journo who “hasny been tellt”; what troubles me at the moment – mundell vid for example – is how the principle of non-contradiction seems to have been revoked for unionist politicians – no one will hold them to the most minimal of standards

    idea for a cartoon

    scene 1 : ripoff of dejeuner sur l’herbe with rev and keza faces crudely photoshopped onto characters heads
    K : ya poof
    R : no homo!
    K : homo-PHOBE then!
    R : ya cow – in court!

    scene 2 : muttley with keza head laffing, judge in full outfit, hand suspiciously under his cassock
    judge : yir a wee daftie eh
    kezmutley : teeheeheehee

    scene 3 : dick dastardly with revs face on it, shocked
    rev-dick : WTF!

    scene 4 : a glorious and elaborate painting – homage in the style of alasdair gray, showing glasgow uni in its magnificence, and the faces of all its greats looking down
    – lord kelvin, adam smith … etc
    – then in the middle of them, grinning imbecilicly – keza, with a slight drool coming from the side of her mouth


  165. starlaw says:

    gus 1940

    Yes Pipers head wear was the traditional Highland Bonnet. Now known as a Balmoral though it was around long before Balmoral.

  166. RobertTheTruth says:

    A joyous occasion yesterday enjoyed by many Scots old and new affirming their desire for an Independent Scotland.

    Today, snark and undermining by SNP politicians telling the world they are effectively embarrassed by the people who give them their vote.

    Wings readers – do you still believe the SNP in its present incarnation represents you? Do you still think you are anything more than voting fodder for a party who is desperate to put as much distance between it and you as possible?

    Yet you direct your anger towards people here who would try to cast a light on the current leadership and direction of travel.

    A party openly courting a hostile and corrupt media and colluding with them to berate and belittle you. Politicians hypocritically assuming the higher ground and telling you that their insulting behaviour is justified but yours is abusive. Then in turn, you cast around for someone to berate here and so it goes on.

    ‘But they know what they are doing’, some here keep telling you – yes, they know exactly what they are doing., keeping you docile and placated so that you keep voting for them no matter what.

    Haven’t we been here before?

  167. winifred mccartney says:

    I am still convinced that Mundell played a part in the Carmichael lying scenario, they share an office, they are close friends, Carmichael was probably the willing stooge.

    But always remember NEVER TRUST A TORY and if labour does their brexit midwife for them I hope they at least have a confirmatory vote immediately or they deserve the same fate as the tories.

  168. Anyone from any establishment party that thinks the free thinking citizens of Scotland should get back in their box and leave it all up to the establishment media and the establishment poilitical parties,

    are in for a big disappointment,

    the soveriegn Scottish citizen is not going to allow a Scottish establishment to rule over us come Independence,

    maybe that is a fight for after Independence but the Scottish establishment will not subjugate the citizens of our free nation.


  169. RobertTheTruth says:

    For those who cannot see the connection, we voted for Scottish Labour for years with the idea there was no one else.

    The SNP should look and learn before it is too late. No one should ever take their voters for granted.

  170. Colin Alexander says:


    Wings readers – do you still believe the SNP in its present incarnation represents you?


    Do you still think you are anything more than voting fodder for a party who is desperate to put as much distance between it and you as possible?

    Leading question but, Indy movement are now used as SNP devolution MEP MP etc voting fodder.

  171. Bobp says:

    Keep voting for the snp till independence. Then people can
    vote for whatever party they like.

  172. Cubby says:

    As we have a poster calling himself the truth we are surrounded by a tsunami of Btritnat lies. How has this happened in Scotland?

    My Answer : A complete 360 degree Britnat controlled media. That of course is only my truth not the truth nor the Britnat media truth.

  173. Welsh Sion says:

    Winifred McCartney @ 12.45pm:

    I suggest you read my story “Carmichael’s the Butcher’s” – published before the Carmichael case came to court. 🙂

  174. Ken500 says:

    The ‘cybernats’ story will be made up by the Herald low lives, It will have been taken out of date, time and context. To cause division. That’s for sure. Just more from the gutter Press for cheap headlines. Everyone is sick of it. A pack of lies. They do not know what to do next to cause trouble, They are despicable.

    Do not fall into the trap of being fooled by it. Just more absolute lies. They will be telt no doubt. The disgusting Herald going down the tubes along with their sychophant unionists politicians. They feed each other into oblivion. Lie, after lie,after lie.

    Keith Brown stated yesterday.Do waste your time trying to convince diehard unionists. Do not bother. Convince others. Get out campaigning. The campaign has started for the EU elections. There is usually a low turn out. The more people turn out and vote SNP. The more the Independence/EU message is endorsed. Two SNP EU candidates were there. It is 50/50. Three women/men. A lady who was involved in the IndyRef campaign as an organiser was there as a prospective candidate. She has class.

  175. gus1940 says:

    I know what a proper Balmoral Bonnet looks like and they don’t flop around like those dinner plate sized ones on display yesterday.

    Compare and contrast with the ones worn by The Royal Regt. Of Scotland.

  176. Cubby says:


    “…… we voted for Scottish Labour for years with the idea there was no one else.”

    Getting pretty tired of you stating you are speaking for everyone. You are full of it.

    I did not vote for Labour for years and neither did a lot of other people. I have always voted for independence. Are you Colin Alexanders wee brother because you are starting to sound like him.


    As the Britnats get scared more and more disrupters turning up on Wings.

  177. Capella says:

    Re new outbreak of the SNP Civil War – looks like Joanna Cherry’s on the case:

  178. Ken500 says:

    Herald article

    There are three quotes making reference about not sending abuse. Pretty general stuff. That is always being promoted. Especially by some who receive it (and give it. In the past? ) Lecturing others. Don”t do what they do. If they can’t stand the heat keep out off the kitchen. It goes with the territory. Turn the other cheek. They are well compensated. A few sweary words from extremely annoyed, angry unhappy, anxious people. The idiocy that is going on from Westminster unionists.

    So what in the great scheme of things. Considering the crimes corrupt politicians pull and get away with it. Tory Royals politicians and Churches celebrating nuclear weapons. That is criminal. Inbelievable. The world gone mad. The power to evaporate the world.

    No reference except in the Heald false headlines about ‘cybernats. Newsquest made that up and will pay with lower sales.

    Newsquest is st it again playing one side against the other. Their sales will fall. Reap what they sow. Their website is appalling, badly managed. Their advertising revenues that keep them going will fall. US company makes it profits from selling literature for private education worldwide.

  179. Colin Alexander says:

    The attack on cybernats seems awfy soon after Stu Campbell and several Wingers have been critical of the SNP regarding the SNP’s recent indyref announcements and support for KD in the defamation case.

    Coincidence? I doubt it.

  180. Cubby says:

    Ronnie Anderson@10.04am

    Also good to say hello to you Ronnie and Liz g.

  181. Ken500 says:

    Got his vacant visage. All over the internet. Ronnie. Retribution? It will be reported.

  182. Dorothy Devine says:

    And he is a thief Ronnie. His mug is available for the police.

  183. Robert Louis says:

    Given that the FM ‘says’ she wants to hold indyref2, and that ‘the campaign has begun’, it is odd that their is no mention of the truly massive democratic peaceful show of support for independence in Glasgow yesterday, on the SNP twitter feed.

    Not even a mention of the depute leader speaking at the march.

    And, it does need asked, if the FM will happily trudge to London for a brexit referendum march, and speak at it, just why is she so shy when it comes to independence marches in her own town. I defended her in the past, but no more.

    This really will not do.

  184. Liz g says:

    Cubby @ 1.27
    If was lovely to meet you too and I am happy to confirm that you’re definitely no Chubby no matter what ma auto correct says 🙂

  185. Hamish100 says:

    Robert spreading disquiet

    I’m lucky I’ve never voted labour, lib dem, SSP, Tory, Scottish Socialist Republican Party ever but I’ve known a Few folk who voted for one then another and another.
    Whatever they thought would get them on in life.

    So Robert form your own party and see how you get on.

  186. Robert Peffers says:

    Mad Unionist says:4 May, 2019 at 6:49 pm:

    Robert Peffers @ 6:42pm. Sorry Robert I am not prone to be tellt what is required. However if you tell me the answers you want to hear then I will consider obliging you.”

    Just the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    You made two statements that were not the truth and I queried them and you have given no answers.

  187. Cubby says:


    Reporting Scotland did a reasonable report on the march last night but only as the second item after another full promotional video about the great Tory Truthless Davidson – she’s had a baby you know and believe it or not she is now a mum. Relentless promotion of Davidson going on now by the Britnat media. THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

    The UK Union = Soviet Union

  188. Republicofscotland says:

    Possibly Sturgeon feels that attending AUOB marches might alienate those who are not yet convinced, the soft noes and such, of the merits of independence.

    We must not forget we still need a percentage of soft noes to vote yes.

  189. Hamish100 says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    5 May, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    Total IDIOT endangering the Yes Bikers

    Ronnie what a complete idiot causing criminal damage and endangering the lives of the bikers and himself. Personally I hope the Police take action.

  190. Petra says:

    Rooth the Mooth on Andrew Marr this morning (28 mins in). No pertinent questions put to her such as in relation to 62% of Scottish remainers being dragged out of the EU by her party, that Brexit will be catastrophic for Scotland and no mention by Marr either that around 49% of Scots want Independence and that her party is dropping in the polls. Another freebie Tory party political broadcast afforded by the BBC. Rooth the Mooth never off of the radio and television now. Actually reminding people why we don’t like the Tories but too bad for wee Finn, eh? Home alone with Jen.

    Well worth listening to John McDonnell too (45 mins in) telling Andrew Marr that Big T has breached her agreement with Corbyn not to leak data relating to their talks. Plus highlighting that even if they strike a deal the next PM, such as Boris J, can overturn it. What a waste of time.

    ‘BBC The Andrew Marr Show 05/05/19.’


    Wee Wullie Rennie was on Gordon Brewer’s programme this morning grinning like a cheshire cat due to their wins down south. Eventually Brewer asked him if the Libdems would get into a coalition with the Tories at Westminster. No way says wee Wullie (knowing that T May / the Tories are toxic now). Later asks him if they’d get into a coalition with Ruth Davidson in Scotland and that wiped the smile right off of his face. Stuttered and stammered. That’s not something we should be discussing right now (or words to that effect), says a highly irritated Wullie. Brewer points out that the Scots would want to know in advance what they were planning to do. Wee Wullie raging.

    So I guess we all know what they’re planning to do. Tory/Libdem coalition in Scotland, if, big IF, they can get the support. Time for the Labour Party to waken up and smell the coffee. Break away from London, support Independence and take it from there.

    Oh and some footage of the AUOB march shown on his programme.


    @ Legerwood says at 12:02 pm … ”So you did not read the articles then but read the headline and, just as the Herald wanted you to do, went coursing after the hare they set running. Pretty measured comments from the 3 men and criticism of the No extremists in equal measure plus a warning from Alyn Smith about foreign interference and false flags….”

    Spot on Legerwood. Someone has to send out a message to the fools on our side, as they are doing us no favours and as you say Alyn Smith is pointing out that many of these posters aren’t Independence supporters at all. Imo, we should also be condemning them, telling them to cut it out as we continue to point out how the Unionists are absolutely pernicious online. Until they do stop it’s difficult to separate them from false flag tr*lls and bots.


    Alyn Smith:- ”If anybody is in any doubt about false flag trolls and bots operating in Scottish twitter… I would invite a brief glance at my timeline. We’re in danger of being played folks, remember @scotorbot is there to help spot nonsense.”

    And I don’t suppose anyone posting on here in relation to the Herald article read Angus Robertson’s comments in the National recently about (so-called Independence supporters) responses to Sir David Edward, former European Court of Justice judge, stating that he was considering supporting Independence. If genuine, they are driving potential Yes supporters away. Influential ones at that.

  191. Cubby says:

    Colin Alexander@8.20 am

    Great post and great words. Then I remember they’re from you. Why do not I believe them to be genuine? You just have to read your posts later in this thread and of course so many others over the years.

    You can tell your wee brother Mr Truth that is my truth and fair comment based on what you have posted over the years.

  192. Dr Jim says:

    There are 600.000 non registered voters in Scotland, do the maths
    Why do you think the SNP want to root out the abusers on Twitter, why do you think they make that publicly known
    If you’re not an abuser what are you complaining about it’s not you anybody’s talking about

    There are elements inside the YES movement that are unsavoury just as there are in any mass movement, it does the cause no good if the leaders of that cause don’t call it out because to the media they look and sound like they support it and the media will always love to report badness, it’s what they exist for

    Every day the Herald prints nonsense and exaggerates it and nobody ever pays any attention to it but isn’t it surprising that today all the disrupters are laser focussed on telling you the SNP are against you and you instantly fall for it

    Abuse turns decent people off, just as some of the people who are involving themselves in the YES movement are deliberately doing

    Don’t think for one minute everybody who goes on a march is on your side because they’re not, some of them are there to promote something entirely different to what you hope you’re there for, I saw them yesterday and if some of you admit it to yourselves you saw them too

    They’re here on this website on a daily basis promoting their shit and you know who they are, if you suspect they’re dodgy then they probably are, it’s in the nature of people if they don’t think they’re getting what they want when they want it to disrupt events to turn something in their favour, Jeez the Labour party have been doing that for the whole of my life at the instructions of the Tories

    Nicola Sturgeon cannot march with AUOB and you all know why so don’t let these disrupters do their job, ignore the low lifes and do Independence the right way

    This site could make a start by getting rid of the ones that do it, after all it is supposed to be a pro Independence site not a general abuse forum more suited to the very thing the SNP are trying to avoid

    Think about what’s going on here and why thousands of folk don’t vote, don’t let this turn into what the Unionists and the disrupters want which is a divided Scotland instead of a United Scotland behind one thing

    Unite Scotland with Independence because one day today’s enemy will hopefully be your friend, because if we don’t adopt that attitude we’ll just be another Northern Ireland and the Unionists in London and their followers in Scotland win

  193. galamcennalath says:

    Polling figures for Indy support. Latest was 49%. It DID include 16&17 year olds. I do not think it included citizens from elsewhere in the EU.

    In 2014 other EU citizens mainly voted NO because they whated Scotland to stay in.

    Next time this will be reversed. There needs to be a concerted effort to get them registered to vote, and to turn out.

  194. ronnie anderson says:

    Hamish 100 / Dorothy Devine lol

  195. yesindyref2 says:

    I read that Herald article and had the same reaction as some, till I read it properly. Legerwood has it right in the posting:

    The one thing I didn’t like is this from Neil Mackay’s article:

    The defamation case involving former Labour Party leader, Kezia Dugdale, and Wings over Scotland blogger Stuart Campbell has also focused attention on conduct online by a minority of vocal Yes supporters. Dugdale won the case.

    It makes it look – just like the unionist press makes it look – as though Dugdale took Campbell to court and won, whereas it was Campbell took Dugdale to court and lost, though the judge said it was defamation and that Campbell wasn’t homophobic.

    Why can’t Mackay tell it as it is, rather than use a distortion to try to make his case? By using a distortion, he is just as bad as any of the extreme Yes supporters and ultra unionists his article decries.

    And you see that all the time with those who set themselves as guardians of the movement, who use distortion to try to discredit those they think are not good for the movement.

  196. Welsh Sion says:

    Petra @ 1.54pm.

    Andrew Marr Show – Haven’t got round to seeing it yet coz I’m in-law sitting.

    But how was Adam’s performance? 🙂

  197. ronnie anderson says:

    Just as well the Yes Bikers are camera’d up or they’ll get other Idiots trying to disrupt their run outs

  198. Petra says:

    @ Republicofscotland says at 1:48 pm … ”Possibly Sturgeon feels that attending AUOB marches might alienate those who are not yet convinced, the soft noes and such, of the merits of independence. We must not forget we still need a percentage of soft noes to vote yes.”

    More than anything RoS I reckon that Nicola Sturgeon should distance herself from AUOB / Independence walks entirely due to being lambasted by the MSM, if any trouble was to break out: And you can bet your bottom dollar if it was known that she was to be leading a march that’s exactly what would happen, especially taking into account the strength of our numbers now. Attending Brexit marches down south and Pride marches is another thing altogether. Let her get on with her job as we get on with ours.

  199. Ken500 says:

    Do not watch the TV rubbish. There is no point. Just winding people up. No viewer no programmes. No Brewer etc.Most of them are alcoholics. Just look at their vacant coupons and red visages. Including Neil. Without proper counselling the make,poor bad decision. Do listen or watch the nonsense. It is just a wind up.

    Who is Alyn Smith’s bidie in? Getting confused. Who’s who?

    Hold the line folks. Just more unionist nonsense going on. Increasing energy austerity they are getting more and more scared.

    The Brexit shambles and mess just gets worse.

    Get out campaigning etc. With like minded nice folk. That is the way to go to get back.

  200. Davie Oga says:

    The good thing about having Davidson all over the media as the representative for the union is that she is one of the least likeable media creatures around. Vacuous, obnoxious, untelegenic, and a blatant liar. Take it as a gift. Ruth for FM or independence would have polling at that mythical %60.

  201. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Dr. Jim @ 1.59pm

    Well said and needed saying, thanks.

  202. Mad Unionist says:

    Ken500 @ 2:21pm. You could say clones rather than nice like minded people.

  203. Ken500 says:

    Nicola represents the whole of Scotland. FM. Two hats. One as SNP leader. One as FM. There is a code of conduct to be followed. Separate roles. So can’t get involved too much until the Official Ref campaign starts. Date called. Parly involved.

    Keith Brown deputy tasked was there. Chris McEleny was there. There were others. Not giving speeches.

  204. Ken500 says:

    Neil McKay is a dunce. Along with others. Why are folk paying so much attention to Neil McKay.

  205. Ken500 says:

    No one reads the bankrupt Scotsman, Herald. Only a few out of the population. They are going out of circulation. Most folk do not give a toss at the dross.

  206. Capella says:

    David Halliday always has a dry and witty comment:?


    What I hate is when people with political interests and views to express take money to allow them to keep doing so, unlike say politicians or journalists. Vile.

  207. ronnie anderson says:

    Yesindyref2 Neil Mackay is a leftwing shit shitstirrer of no consequence & a conman , he should have been charged with fraud for taking money out of Robbie Allen’s bank account to boost Auwb F/B page at the start . Robbie Allan being the Founder of Auob & not Mackay as he likes to claim .

  208. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    With my medical thingy, I stood at George Square watching the march going by from start to finish and joined at the end. I was on the road by a van with some message, a guy with a loudhailer and leaflet givers, and it seemed to me they kept trying to stand next to me, perhaps accidentally, but perhaps trying to be associated with YES, as I had half a YES sandwich thing with string round my next, T-shirt badges and AyeMail YES Saltire round the legs plus badges. I asked a polis who’d been listening a bit and he said he thought they were freemen or seomthing like that (anarchists?). I moved away a couple of times. Don’t know what they are but don’t include me against my will.

    Also as the march went by there were a few “Tory Tory Tory” – “out out out” cries which were nothing to do with Indy really, with Indy who cares what government the rUK wants to have, or at least, who would think we’d have the right to influence a foreign country.

    And of course some calling for Sturgeon for an Indy Ref “2 4 6 8” or something, which is fine, but exactly why Sturgeon can’t endorse a march where part at least is calling for her to call Indy Ref 2 NOW!

    You’re going to get all sorts on a march, even the likes of me 😎

  209. galamcennalath says:

    Re AUOB and Nicola. The YES movement is (and should be) a very broad church. The various elements don’t need to be in each other’s pockets. Cooperation when it suits, live and let live most of the time. Each has its own objectives and ways of getting things done.

    Then to muddy the waters we have false flags, bots, trolls, fifth columnists, and good old fashioned misguided extremists.

    The BritNats want to simplify and personify the YES movement. They want it to be seen as the SNP’s or Salmond then Sturgeon’s. They hate being reminded that there is another Indy party in Parliament, the Greens.

    The more diversified and multi faced it is, the harder it is for the BritNats and their loyal media to deal with. They don’t have 10000s of activists, they just have a few spokespersons, the media, and money. They need a simple narrative and catchy sound bites. We can deny them this.

    Think of Jeanne Freeman’s cracking interview with Andrew Neil in 2014 where he tried to challenge her on SNP policy …. she retorted, I’m not in the SNP nor am I a politician. Left him totally flumaxed.

  210. Capella says:

    @ ronnie anderson – I think there are two Neil MacKays? The author of the Herald article attacking “cybenats” is the one being criticised today.

  211. Petra says:

    @ Welsh Sion says at 2:10 pm – ”Petra – Andrew Marr Show – Haven’t got round to seeing it yet coz I’m in-law sitting. But how was Adam’s performance? ?”

    He came across well, Welsh Sion, on the ball in fact. Covered Brexit, his visit to the Catalan political figures and pushing for Welsh Independence (22:20 mins in) and of course would have liked to say more but was cut off latterly by Marr. Marr started quoting the BBC polling figures, that is 7% for Welsh Independence and I think that Adam Price would have liked to say something derogatory about them, lol, however bit his tongue and said something along the lines of ”it depends on the question that’s asked.”

    I loved Leanne Wood, but he’s the man (person) to get your people out of the hellhole WS, imo. Good luck with that. Like us it’s coming, ”For a’ that, an’ a’ that, It’s comin yet for a’ that.” Roll on the day when the Welsh, Scottish and Irish unite in celebrating our release from purgatory X

  212. jfngw says:

    Journalists consider anyone that criticises them as cybernats, that would probably include nearly all of us, except maybe a small Byres Road clique.

    Journalists that don’t get abusive messages from unionists are deluded that their material is unbiased, they agree with you, why would they abuse you.

    A quick look round twitter, or even BTL at the Herald or Scotsman, about Brexit soon reveals the nature of BritNats. Strangely Scottish journalists seem to believe that we have a purer form of British Nationalism, where democracy is their go to word, as long as we are subservient.

    I don’t read the Herald, have the odd look for a laugh, just to see what nonsense the BritNats are about currently. Never forget your adblocker and make sure you set your browser to reject cookies from the site (makes it more difficult to track you).

  213. yesindyref2 says:

    @ronnie anderson
    Aren’t they two different people – the Neil Mackay from AUOB and the one from the Herald?

  214. Frank Gillougley says:

    Peter Bell talks about lying and lies re Mundell here:
    but sometimes he concludes that the biggest whoppers are lies of omission.

    I guess, to stay sane, I’ll just have to take the longer view of history after yesterday, in that in the end, the truth will out and the state/journalist/media propagandists will be shown for what they are.

    We shall overcome…

  215. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    “Tory Tory Tory” – “out out out”

    Yes, there is no place for that. It wreaks of another battle in another time. A Tory gov in England may be England’s choice, it SHOULD be nothing to do with us. The problem is ANY gov in London exercising power and influence here in Scotland. Would it matter much if it was a BritNat Labour gov? Another cheek of the same erse.

    “Tories out”, for me is just all wrong. Whatever Davidson fantasises about, we are highly unlikely to ever see a Tory government in Scotland.

    “End WM rule”, “End London rule”, whatever. Yes.

    And there’s a twist. It is probably to the Indy cause’s benefit to have Tories in gov in WM!

  216. Ghillie says:

    Folks! The Glasgow March looked absolutely fantastic!

    What a great start with the drummers and then the pipe band 🙂

    Well done EVERYONE! You’ve done us proud 🙂

  217. ronnie anderson says:

    So’s for the confudlement over the Neil Mackays lol

  218. Ghillie says:

    As for Mundell.

    When our MPs are not allowed to call out liars in that Mother of all parliarments, then what hope is there that the likes of Mundell can be expected to speak the truth?

  219. Dr Jim says:

    Apparently the words *serial misleader* are perfectly acceptable within a parliamentary context

  220. IZZIE says:

    The BBC are managing to get rape clause Ruth into every bullitin.

  221. Capella says:

    Keith Brown, Margaret Ferrier and Chris McEleny all spoke at the Glasgow march. That’s the SNP leadership showing support.
    At last year’s conference, Nicola Sturgeon said that the Edinburgh march was a sight that warmed her heart.
    That’s good enough for me.

  222. Petra says:

    Brilliant articles in the Sunday National today, including a supplement full of AUOB pictures. As per usual someone had hidden them in Morrisons. Removed to cover some of the Unionist propaganda.

    Get out and buy the National and then pass it on to a neighbour, leave it on the bus, train or whatever.


    Sign:- ‘Pledge your support for independence.’


    Donate:- ”With your help we plan to start a major new campaign focused on Scotland’s economic potential as an independent country. Our plan is to distribute An independent Scotland: Household Guide to every household – all 2.4 million of them!
    Please donate what you can.”

  223. jfngw says:

    Looks like the Scotsman has a interesting cookies policy, even if you don’t accept it by clicking OK it still dumps 20 cookies on your computer. I’m sure they are all innocent and well within the UK’s light touch data rules about cookies! The OK isn’t actually an acceptance or rejection merely an indication you have read the info, it’s there to deceive you.

    Just never assume that when you think you are rejecting cookies they are not still there tracking you. Blocking them is the only solution. It won’t stop the big players tracking you as they are more sophisticated.

  224. Cubby says:


    Sunday Politics Scotland BBC

    Totally agree re Rennie. It would appear that if you vote Lib Dem in Scotland you are voting for the Tories.

    Pete Wishart had a cosy wee chat with Brewer about why he thinks he should be speaker at Westminster. Totally self indulgent. It’s never going to happen. He thinks as he is there (Westminster) he should try and help improve the place. He should of course be on the programme talking about independence and the March in Glasgow – not a word. Wishart is in danger of going the way of Jim Sillars – me me me me me. That’s your quota of The largest (by far ) party of Scotland’s input to the programme – its called Politics SCOTLAND – not Politics Britnats.

    Next up a wee Britnat tea party round the table with Brewer. No SNP or independence supporter invited to the tea party discussion. Brewer feeds Jenny Davidson ( relation of Truthless? ) journalist the line ( referring to the Glasgow march) – ” is it helpful to the cause of independence this sort of thing …………. is it helpful or harmful” – no prizes for guessing the reply. Jenny’s knows the answer she’s must give if her nice wee earner with the BBC is to continue. During this discussion the political reporter from the Daily Mail’ s face was tripping her. Looked like she was sooking a lemon during the short discussion on independence and short film of the march.

    Phoney independence supporters abound trying to create trouble and a bad impression of independence supporters. All the Britnats have is deceit and lies. You never hear any case being put for the Union from any source. Why is that – there ain’t one. Just a bunch of people who believe that their personal advancement depends on the Union staying in place – so they will rubbish their country as instructed.

  225. RobertTheTruth says:

    The danger of saying you will vote for the SNP until they deliver independence is that they just need to keep saying they will deliver it.

    They don’t have to do it.

    They can keep saying ‘we are the only ones capable’ and you keep hoping this time, maybe this time and they keep getting voted in and so it goes on.

    50 years later, and no Independence and they have become Labour promising the earth and delivering nothing.

    And still there are some here who would have you be like them, saying they have waited 20, 30 even 40 years and all you people who want action don’t get it as they they have a monopoly on how to achieve Independence. Well your way isn’t working, is it?

    They like to talk about it and brag about how ow long and how much they have done but do they actually want Independence?

  226. Liz g says:

    RE… Nicola & the SNP supporting the AUOB marches…
    Well firstly,senior SNP MPs & MSps do attend informally,I’ve seen them.
    And they’re no hiding either,they get photographed,they chat to people and they speak on stage.
    As for Nicola going… I can’t see how she could…
    There are hundreds of other Yes groups all working just as hard organising events she can’t just pick one group and she can’t attend everything,none of us can, we’re to big and too busy!
    That’s exactly what would be used to put divisions in ” Yes ”
    She could never win.
    They’d claim.
    She only attends the really big events.
    She only attends Glasgow,or Edinburgh, or Major Cities,or the Central Belt and on and on it would go.
    Hard working campaigners would rightly feel snubbed,where as, at the moment the MPs and MSPs are attending events across the board where they can,so there’s no distinction made between any of our organizers,and that, I think, is now it should be.

    As to “If Nelson Mandela had turned up and asked,who is leading this March “, ( and yes I’m looking at you Grouse Beater ) the answer would be
    ” There’s nae Names here Son each person is as Sovereign as the other,that’s the whole point”.

    Somehow I think Mandela would have understood. Without having to be directed to Robert Peffers!
    When the politicians march they march among us and that’s how it should be
    We don’t need a leader to March,but rather we need our Leader to know that we do…And That She Dose….

  227. manandboy says:


    There was a yellow banner with black writing on it, ending in the letters TH.
    It was about 8ft x 4ft, held just above the ground. Can anyone tell me plz what was written on the banner?

  228. Scozzie says:

    I disagree with the notion that Nicola Sturgeon should distance herself from independence marches. That argument could perhaps carry some weight if she didn’t attend and support any form of marching. But given that she did the Brexit and Pride marches, she clearly demonstrates she has no misgivings of supporting some causes – so why not the independence cause? This is the one cause that she and her party were elected on, so why the hesitancy?

    It is a peaceful movement so I cannot see why the leadership is nowhere to be seen. And quite frankly a tweet or two just doesn’t cut it!

    As for Angus and Alyn’s ill-judged and poorly timed comments on so called ‘cybertnats’ leaves me wondering wtf is going on with the SNP!!!

  229. Breeks says:

    I’m sure I read Alyn Smith referring to the Scotorbot application weeks ago. To that extent, this “breaking” issue of false flag cybernats isn’t new, and frankly seems orchestrated to coincide with the positive stuff from another successful AUOB March.

    Take a step back and see the wider perspective people.

    The BritNats are fishing.

    They know there’s another day of Independence reckoning looming, and they also know that Better Together 2 isn’t going to cut it. They know the BBC has trashed its own reputation and integrity and is floundering in its attempts to influence people like it did I need 2014. Their propaganda is weak, and the indoctrination isn’t taking root like it has in former decades.

    They also know Ruth Davidson, even with her own “royal baby”, isn’t going to deliver. There’s less hot air in the Trump baby blimp. They know it’s fundamentally untenable for an elected politician to set her face against the electorate and deny them access to democracy. I saw her bullshit on Marr, “first above all I’m a democrat” she spouts, and in the same breath, she is suppressing democracy by blocking a democratic referendum. That’s good enough for the BBC maybe, but doesn’t cut any ice when it’s our Scottish democracy she is fking with. Is that it Saruman? Is that all you’ve got?

    Their sectarianism isn’t taking hold either. Their mumping and grumping and the sectarian agitation is obsolete and transparent and not provoking the desired response. Fighting in the street might be chapter 1 in the Orange Order Playbook, but it’s sooo 1970’s for anybody with a brain cell.

    Put it all together, and what you have is BritNat Establishment which hasn’t a clue how it’s going to sabotage our IndyRef or alternate IndyRoute. Nothing works, and it’s flying kites to discover which orchestrated conspiracy might catch in the wind.

    If they can’t divide and rule us through sectarianism, they’ll fly a kite to pit the “posh” Independentists in Control against the rank and file in the streets. They’ll pit the “Official” SNP strategy against the spontaneous and organic grassroots activism. They’ll fish for any weakness that can be exploited. We are being tested. They are probing us for weaknesses.

    They KNOW they shot all their bolts in 2014, and the same dirty tricks which carried the day in 2014 aren’t going to be effective second time around. All their “No to a second IndyRef” rhetoric is purely a holding position to buy them time to devise new ways to derail Scotland’s Independence. That is why there is nothing in the media about 100k Scots marching through Glasgow. It is incompatible and irreconcilable with the narrative the propagandists are trying to sell.

    Get savvy people. Whenever we bite, whatever provokes a reaction, we will see it repeated over and over and then amplified tenfold. If there is something we want to see promoted, it will never see the light of day on the BritNat airwaves.

    Unless of course you really do think that Ruth Davidson is a shoe-in for FM. How fkn desperate would you have to be to believe in that shite??? There you go… that’s how desperate, deluded and clueless they are. And it hasn’t even started…

  230. Cubby says:


    Your teas oot pal. Your truth is a load of shit stirring. The SNP delivered an independence vote in 2014.

    Forgotten already have you Mr Truth. Independence wasn’t delivered because Britnats voted against it.

    Just another flavour of disrupter arent you Mr Truth.

  231. jfngw says:

    One thing is clear over the last few years, when people ask what Ruth Davidson’s policies will be after all her twists and turns, resignation cons, and washed up lines in the sand. Her policies will be whatever Theresa May, or her successor, tells her they are.

    Those that pay the piper call the tune. This is true for Labour and the LibDem offices in Scotland also, they are not autonomous, never have been, never will be.

  232. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    They KNOW they shot all their bolts in 2014

    Indeed. They played some effective cards in 2014 – negatives like pensions, currency, EU, etc and a big positive of ‘jam tomorrow, honest, we promise’. We’ll never really know which worked most, but we know the combined effect.

    But they then blew it. The threats came true anyway and the jam was excrement.

    It’s hard to see what BT2’s game plan will be. They’ve used up most tricks.

    The ‘UK internal market’ and border issues perhaps has been tentatively waved. It’s weak because they have to solve the Irish border, so the Scottish one has a ready made solution.

    So what do they do apart from play time? I hate to say it, but turning nasty is all they’ve got left. To counter that, hopefully, international sympathies will lie with Scotland and not Perfidious Albion.

  233. Petra says:

    @ RobertTheTruth at 3:31pm …. “Well your way isn’t working, is it?”

    I’m just wondering if you actually want Scotland to be an Independent country and if so who do you reckon we should vote for if not the SNP? What about telling us what will work, RobertTheTruth, lol?

    And no gripes about Unionist politicians? Just “another” on here running the Unionist tap with the constant drip, drip, drip of SNP Baad?

  234. jfngw says:

    According to the Scottish Press we have:

    The ugly face of separatists –


    The Noble unifying force of Britishness –

    Although the latter may be BritNat remake of ‘Twins’ where they see themselves as Danny & Arnold.

  235. Hamish100 says:

    I see Gerry Hasssan in a tweet states that Davidson is an asset to Scottish political life.

    Does he do irony?

  236. Abulhaq says:

    @jfngw 3:30pm
    Blocking cookies doesnt actually stop them. They still manage to get through. Consequently, It pays to clear very frequently.
    Cookies slow down your device too as one site may well contain legions of such files.
    They are a snooping nuisance designed to sell stuff and harvest usage data. They ought to be banned, like plastic. The EU intervention on privacy has actually made things worse.

  237. Sarah says:

    @Dan at 12.12: thanks for your answer. I’m really pleased you managed to cure yourself. Brilliant – definitely not a butthead!

  238. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyone clued up on firefox? My Ublock Origin stopped working, I’m on Firefox ESR and can’t go further as it’s Win XP I’m using, and seemed to need a later Firefox I can’t use so totally Stephen Hendried. But then I found this:

    Herald is totally unusable again with all its stupid adverts and constant jerkyoff updating, National not as bad.

  239. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Magnificant destruction of Ruth Davidson in today’s Sunday National, on a par with Kevin McKenna’s’ flaying of Kezia last week inthe daily National.

    What a march. That repested about one adult in every thirty in Scotland yesterday.

  240. Neil B says:

    @ yesindyref2 at 5:11
    Firefox workaround for the time being – go to about:config (type it in the address bar) and toggle xpinstall.signatures.required to false, that will bring your add-ons back.

  241. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 17:11:

    Anyone clued up on firefox?

    O/T I have also had a right tangle with it today, in my case with Ghostery, the ace dross-blocker. After much faffing around, discovered that Mozilla are apologising for royally screwing-up a whole host of add-ons. A fix is supposedly on the way, so don’t do as I did and uninstall then try to re-install. It should all come right in the end ithout user intervention – quoth they.

    Sorry to hear, BTW, that you were (are?) somewhat less than 100%. Hope you are getting back to full function in short order. We need “all hands on deck” for the next stretch!

  242. Ottomanboi says:

    Re so-called ‘CyberNat’ activities, simply to challenge an opinion is tantamount to ‘abuse’. There are bunches of BritNat delicate flowers in cyberspace who fade and shrivel when confronted.
    Many of them are ‘clueless’, union jackoff, Kipper type boneheads,
    We ought to be nice to them, feel their existential pain….NOT!

  243. yesindyref2 says:

    @SAINT Neil B


    Wow, back to normal, I was distressed! Thank you very very much.

  244. Robert Peffers says:

    @Cubby says: 5 May, 2019 at 3:24 pm:

    ” … Wishart is in danger of going the way of Jim Sillars – me me me me me.”

    Come on Cubby, you are not thinking straight – Pete knows full well that he cannot ever be speaker and neither can any other non-English MP. Have you forgotten about EVEL?

    ” … That’s your quota of The largest (by far ) party of Scotland’s input to the programme – its called Politics SCOTLAND – not Politics Britnats.”

    Pete is a well known joker. Now consider exactly what is going to happen. His attempt to be speaker is going to be officially refused quoting parliamentary rules and we are right into yet another constitutional crisis.

    Westminster is legally the parliament of the two, equally sovereign, kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union. It is not legally the de facto parliament of either the country or the Kingdom of England.

    The numpties in Westminster will assume this is just another of Pete’s wee jokes and will walk into a constitutional trap they never expected. What’s more it might even infuriate some Scots when it dawns upon them how we Scots get treated as underlings by the English/British Westminster Establishment.

    As for the rest of that comment, just do not imagine that our SNP MPs and the SNP are a crowd of numpties that are naïve and out of touch. They know better than you or I what’s going down and they are arguably the most clever and well educated group to grace parliament for a very long time. Much of what they do and say is very subtle and often the sprat to catch the maceral.

    Joanna Cherry, in particular, is perhaps the sharpest knife it the Westminster cutlery drawer but she is far from being alone. Sometimes they drop in something seemingly innoxious that goes unnoticed but then later hits the Britnats hard.

    For example Ian Blackford’s. “The people of Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against their will”. was initially treated with contempt but expanded into a threat and grew legs of its own. Now even the First Minister uses the phrase and they sure as hell don’t seem inclined to laugh at it now.

    As I pointed out a couple of days ago going at things like a bull at a gate will usually be met with exactly what usually happens with a real bull at a real gate. Things remain the same but the bull has a very sore head. @Cubby says: 5 May, 2019 at 3:24 pm:

    ” … Wishart is in danger of going the way of Jim Sillars – me me me me me.”

    Come on Cubby, you are not thinking straight – Pete knows full well that he cannot ever be speaker and neither can any other non English MP. Have you forgotten about EVEL?

    ” … That’s your quota of The largest (by far ) party of Scotland’s input to the programme – its called Politics SCOTLAND – not Politics Britnats.”

    Pete is a well known joker. Now consider exactly what is going to happen. His attempt to be speaker is going to be officially refused quoting parliamentary rules and we are right into yet another constitutional crisis.

    Westminster is legally the parliament of the two, equally sovereign, kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union. It is not legally the de facto parliament of either the country or the Kingdom of England.

    The numpties in Westminster will assume this is just another of Pete’s wee jokes and will walk into a constitutional trap they never expected. What’s more it might even infuriate some Scots when it dawns upon them how we Scots get treated as underlings by the English/British Westminster Establishment.

    As for the rest of that comment, just do not imagine that our SNP MPs and the SNP are a crowd of numpties that are naïve and out of touch. They know better than you or I what’s going down and they are arguably the most clever and well educated group to grace parliament for a very long time. Much of what they do and say is very subtle and often the sprat to catch the maceral.

    Joanna Cherry, in particular, is perhaps the sharpest knife it the Westminster cutlery drawer but she is far from being alone. Sometimes they drop in something seemingly innoxious that goes unnoticed but then later hits the Britnats hard.

    For example Ian Blackford’s. “The people of Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against their will”. was initially treated with contempt but expanded into a threat and grew legs of its own. Now even the First Minister uses the phrase and they sure as hell don’t seem inclined to laugh at it now.

    As I pointed out a couple of days ago going at things like a bull at a gate will usually be met with exactly what usually happens with a real bull at a real gate. Things remain the same but the bull has a very sore head. @Cubby says: 5 May, 2019 at 3:24 pm:

    ” … Wishart is in danger of going the way of Jim Sillars – me me me me me.”

    Come on Cubby, you are not thinking straight – Pete knows full well that he cannot ever be speaker and neither can any other non English MP. Have you forgotten about EVEL?

    ” … That’s your quota of The largest (by far ) party of Scotland’s input to the programme – its called Politics SCOTLAND – not Politics Britnats.”

    Pete is a well known joker. Now consider exactly what is going to happen. His attempt to be speaker is going to be officially refused quoting parliamentary rules and we are right into yet another constitutional crisis.

    Westminster is legally the parliament of the two, equally sovereign, kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union. It is not legally the de facto parliament of either the country or the Kingdom of England.

    The numpties in Westminster will assume this is just another of Pete’s wee jokes and will walk into a constitutional trap they never expected. What’s more it might even infuriate some Scots when it dawns upon them how we Scots get treated as underlings by the English/British Westminster Establishment.

    As for the rest of that comment, just do not imagine that our SNP MPs and the SNP are a crowd of numpties that are naïve and out of touch. They know better than you or I what’s going down and they are arguably the most clever and well educated group to grace parliament for a very long time. Much of what they do and say is very subtle and often the sprat to catch the maceral.

    Joanna Cherry, in particular, is perhaps the sharpest knife it the Westminster cutlery drawer but she is far from being alone. Sometimes they drop in something seemingly innoxious that goes unnoticed but then later hits the Britnats hard.

    For example Ian Blackford’s. “The people of Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against their will”. was initially treated with contempt but expanded into a threat and grew legs of its own. Now even the First Minister uses the phrase and they sure as hell don’t seem inclined to laugh at it now.

    As I pointed out a couple of days ago going at things like a bull at a gate will usually be met with exactly what usually happens with a real bull at a real gate. Things remain the same but the bull has a very sore head.

  245. jfngw says:


    Yep all my firefox addons stopped this morning. Seems to have been a mess up at mozilla. I used this link to cure the problem, it takes a while to update.

    Well blocking the cookies works for me with the Herald, there are none in by cache, never is now. And I can read as many articles as I like, although I don’t bother.

  246. jfngw says:


    I didn’t use the disable signatures as that seems a bit unsafe to me. It looks like you are disabling the authentication certificates that these addons are what they claim to be.

  247. Arthur Thomson says:

    The Herald is being kept afloat by the British state, so too the Scotsman. How do I know? Because there is no other rational explanation.

    Does that make me a Cybernat? I really hope it does.

    The British do not understand the concept of truth. If they did they would be unable to sleep at night because they would be suffering nightmares about how they have deliberately destroyed the lives of men, women and children across the globe. They are truly without conscience.

    Does that make me a Cybernat? I hope so.

    Do I give a flying fuck as to the negative opinions of sundry others about Scottish people holding gala days to celebrate their belief in Scottish independence? NO.

    Do I support the SNP as the established political party of independence? Yes I do. Does that mean that I will follow a party line on anything other than the commitment to independence? No it does not.

    Have I offended any Brits on here in making these comments? Tough shit.

    Does that make me a vile Cybernat? Not in my opinion.

  248. Abulhaq says:

    Clearing all cookies is a fix for some problems. Cookies are alien files on your device. The other is a complete shutdown and reboot.
    Be careful with net downloads. Some may contain bugs, spyware or malware.
    If you have important files do back them up, just in case.
    Hope that is of some use.

  249. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Breeks@3.50pm

    Excellent comment Breeks. It’s all a matter of Britnats’ desperation right now, rats in a cage.

    They have nothing to offer Scotland, at all and most of the people of Scotland know that. Let’s stand by each other folks, and call out the attempts to divide the people of Scotland, and keep sharing the facts about Brexit, and UKgov underhandedness and attacks on the poor and most vulnerable people.

    The Britnats hate that. Tough.

  250. Cubby says:

    Robert Peffers@5.36pm

    I have not forgotten about EVEL. I recently referred to that point when commenting on the nonsense question being asked of Truthless Davidson being PM. It’s also part of the reason I said Wishart will never be speaker. If he has a plan good. When I see it in operation I will happily congratulate him.

    No need to repeat yourself in your post Mr Peffers. LOL

  251. Robert Peffers says:

    @Liz g says: 5 May, 2019 at 3:33 pm:

    ” … RE… Nicola & the SNP supporting the AUOB marches…
    Well firstly,senior SNP MPs & MSps do attend informally,I’ve seen them.”

    That whole comment was very well said, Liz g, but I’m going to add something to it.

    The greatest thing about the YES movement was that it just happened spontaneously right across Scotland. There was no overall leader and it wasn’t led by either the SG or the SNP.

    The SNP recognised that and made no attempt to take it over for it had a different part to play in the independence movement.

    Now the Yes movement were not the only ones in the independence movement and that was the initiative to co-ordinate some things that needed pulling all factions together for things like marches and perhaps protests and they too have a different job to do and up stepped AUOB.

    As far as I can see, and I’ve been around the political/trade union scene for a very long time, there is a very old movement involve in both of those scenes that have always been at odds with everyone else at one time or another yet that faction has never really made any headway in any of those scenes.

    They are more a protest group or feel aggrieved at either someone or everyone else.

    They are self declared socialists but always far left wing and they could never agree with anyone, including themselves. More Communist than socialist. In fact some of them were former members of the Communist Party. We had quite a job ousting them from the old Electrical Trade Union.

    So you should all recognise who I mean by now. I cannot recall a time when they were not trying to undermine some other party or faction and they always have worked from within but couldn’t even agree among themselves.

  252. Ken500 says:

    Neil MacKay can be e-mailed at the Herald. To have a nice say.

    ‘We must stand up to tryranny of the thought police’. Like him.

    His mum voted for Brexit,

    The Herald sdvertising ‘heartburn tablets’ says it all. Painful stress.

  253. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks for that I’ll bookmark it but wait for the better fix they’re talking about, in case that screws up my final version 52.9.0! I’ll not be dling new ones anyway, though it’s still a small security exposure.

  254. Ken500 says:

    Herald will be advertising constipation tablets next.

  255. Mad Unionist says:

    Artyhetty @ 6:35pm. Well said, ‘rats in a trap’. You are a bonus for us Unionists. Nice way to talk about your neighbour who may disagree with you. You must be surrounded by rats!

  256. Ian Foulds says:

    Arthur Thomson at 6.01pm

    ‘ The British do not understand the concept of truth……

    They are truly without conscience.

    Does that make me a Cybernat? I hope so.’

    Like it, thank you.

  257. Colin Alexander says:

    @ Cubby

    The SNP are critical of the abusive cybernats. Good for the SNP in saying that. Good for Joanna Cherry and others condemning ANY threatening or abusive conduct whether by indy or union supporters or whatever.

    I’ve also been outspoken in my criticism of the excesses on Wings btl.

    Calling people insulting, obscene and abusive names does NOTHING BUT HARM to the cause of Scottish independence.

    I’ve also praised and tried to encourage the excellent journalism of Stu Campbell. He deserves praise for his excellent journalism and support for indy. But the personal insults and obscenities are his achilles heel and are an open goal for his enemies to exploit, as Ms
    Dugdale demonstrated. Showing up Mr David Mundell to be a shameless liar regarding the 2014 indyref campaign and now is excellent. A million times better than abusive comments about his Tory MSP son.

    I’m aye (always) YES for indy. The smiling pleasant people of the AUOB marches etc is the real indy movement. They are the people who show indy in a positive light. That’s why I praised them.

    Smiling for Scotland.

  258. Mad Unionist says:

    Ken500 @ 6:50pm. There must be a redundant Scottish shortbread factory in Nairn where Tartan clad clone Nationalists are churned out with the sown on Saltires. Mass flag waving is not popular amongst the majority of Scots. You should attempt to speak to other people who do not share your views. You frighten some people.

  259. Cubby says:

    Truthless Davidson – voted leader of the Tory branch office in Scotland has been in post for 8 years and wants another 2 years to become FM. I think it’s time for a change – Ruth the Mooth – you are a useless windbag and its about time you gave Jackson Carcrash a chance. LOL

    Fair comment I think. Trailing badly in the polls – new leader required.

  260. Hamish100 says:

    mad dog unionist. You said you were in George Square yesterday.

    Just a question for which I am genuinely interested.

    Why are mad unionists in the main bald, obese have tattoo’s –and that’s jist the wumiin!!!!! lol

    Oh and never smile with or without teeth!!

  261. mike cassidy says:


    Thanks for the Willie Rennie info.

    Anybody got that footage?

    This is the hope behind Davidson’s ‘first minister’ ambition.

    A coalition after the next Holyrood election of the Unionist parties which outnumbers SNP.

    ( A possibility, let’s face it)

    And the top job going to the Unionist party leader with the most seats.

    Seems like Rennie has already nickclegged it.

    Look, Ma.

    A ministerial car!

  262. Mad Unionist says:

    Robert Peffers @ 6:46pm. I joined the New formed EEPTU during 1968 while working in the Glasgow National Savings Bank building site. It was Communist shop steward who fought against the bosses for decent conditions on the site. Men were actually digging holes and shittin in them. I am sure you remember Mr Chappel who witchunted the Commies. The mistake the Commies made was allegedly rigging the ballots.

  263. mike cassidy says:

    Colin Alexander 6.54

    You’ve spent most of your time on here abusing the SNP.

    Does your anti-abuse post mean the ‘Colin abusing SNP again’ era is over?

  264. Legerwood says:

    Petra @ 1.54 PM

    Thank you.

    I am getting really tired with people whose first recourse to any event/article is a negative one which, as in this case, gets the reaction the headline was designed to provoke.

    Did anyone really expect The Sunday Herald to have anything on its front page today of all days other than some sort of SNP bad, SNP war etc etc.

    As to the timing of the comments by Angus Robertson etc how does anyone know when they made them? The Herald may have interviewed them some days ago and held them back for just such an occasion. The Herald is also into recycling/rehashing stories so it is very possible some of these are culled from other articles. This recycling of stories is happening quite often now in the Herald and I think it is a sign of how strapped they are for cash and for staff.

    Surprised Ms Cherry waded in since there was a piece within the articles giving examples of the abuse women are subjected to.

  265. yesindyref2 says:

    Just getting back to that anti-“cybernat” article in the SH, and there was this one also by Neil Mackay the Tuesday 30th April before: “Neil Mackay: Five key issues the Yes movement must address if it wants to win well” which I remember seeing but not commenting on while in hospital on the nhspatient wifi on my laptop. Using my rule of pro-Indy or good neutral articles getting the full proper native URL, this one is here:

    It has this in it from him “Even worse than the gesture politics of pointless parades is the dominance of ugly voices among the grassroots.” and this “we’re left with well-meaning marchers going nowhere“.

    So the guy doesn’t like marches or marchers, which is why the twat scheduled a divisive article on the day after a 100,000 person march through the centre of Glasgow, rather than a good one about the positive energy (helped me feel way better, a smile all afternoon).

    I rest my contempt for him.

    First comment btl on that thread was by “Graham” with 220 upvotes, we’re lucky to have him. So am I as a btler, takes a load off 🙂

  266. yesindyref2 says:

    Basically speaking Neil Mackay has turned his back on and insulted 100,000 people who marched in Glasgow, for Independence.

    I really don’t like people like him, or anyone who thinks they are above the grassroots, like that other twat Leask, and several others who give themselves airs and graces they haven’t earned and never will, and basically speaking aren’t fit to kiss our arses.

    Fuck . the . fuck . off.

  267. yesindyref2 says:

    A day of endless abuse for reporting a story accurately, and with full on the record quotes from SNP leaders, about concerns regarding behaviour by an online fringe of Yes supporters. And it included full details of vile unionist trolling as balance too

    which entirely misses the point that while the story might have been reported accurately, was the day after a wonderful positive energy peaceful and happy march, a march which YOU WERE AGAINST YOU HYPOCRITE, really the day for your 1984 thought control type of shite?

    What did you say?

    their behaviour is damaging the Yes movement

    Goat a mirror?

  268. yesindyref2 says:

    @Neil Mackay
    Oh, and the reason I’m commenting here is because you didn’t even have the guts to open your article today to comment below the line, you hid behind a closed article.

    Bravo. What a hero.

  269. yesindyref2 says:

    Just say your comment before mmine. Perhaps the problem is this, from Mackay’s twitter (thank God I don’t do twitter):

    Oh, and for what it’s worth I’m an independence supporter. So I have to wonder what all those intelligent and open-minded undecided voters needed to win a Yes vote, make of this circular firing squad behaviour. Not much my spider-senses tell me

    “circular firing squad” today of all days, where he fired the first shot.

  270. Cubby says:

    The foreign controlled media in Scotland lie. They are deceitful as well. Plenty of anti Scotland/SNP/Scotgov propaganda.

    Change the word media with phoney independence posters on Wings and they neatly apply just as well. Talking about phoney independence supporters Colin Alexander your posts are abusive and insulting so basically you are full of it just like your wee brother Mr Truth.

  271. Tony O"neill says:

    Imo,at least 90% of the so called abusive cybernats on line are the enemy’s fith columnists who’s mission is to sow chaos and division. Any one who doesn’t is at best naive or in denial. Anyone with the slitest knowledge of how security services operate to infiltrate disrupt and over throw individuals, organisations elections and even countries know they have been up to no good up up here now for several years. This is not a mad conspiracy theory, the yes movement and the snp and independence are a threat to the security of the realm that’s just a bonifidy fact.
    Look how they’ve operated in the past, eg miners strike, northern Ireland are two recent examples close to home.Just look at the suspicious activity going on in front of our own eyes, it isn’t solely down to coincidence or bad luck.
    The whole msm in this country, legal

    system university’s and all the main political parties, will be infiltrated by special branch and mi. If they are not then they are not doing their jobs. Eg,
    two classic infiltration cover storylines, are ngo’s and msm outlets. There are more than likely at least one, in the top echelons of the snp and Scottish government. Playing fare when the enemies of freedom do not is madness.

    classic infiltration cover storylines into hostile AO’s, are ngo’s and
    classic infiltrate covers storylines

  272. RobertTheTruth says:


    It is always easier to attack the messenger and not the message. You are hurting, think about why you are so angry. Is it because there is a nugget of truth and you cannot face up to it?

    Some of us are not here to make friends although for many here it is worryingly important that anonymous people like them. Unless you are standing over their shoulder watching them you have no idea who types what. Remember that.

    For you it is more personal than for most. Remember it is a comment on a blog on the internet, chill out.

    For the others, is there anything positive you can glean from Smith, McDonald and Robertson’s message? Are you still convinced they are on YOUR side?

  273. Was thinking it is time to reread Orwell`s 1984,

    just to see how close we are to his vision of the state/establishment controlled future,

    the 8 of June is the 70th year since its first publication,

    written on our Isle of Jura,

    was cycling on Jura last year,certainly a place to get away from the noise of civilization with a bleak beauty that would stimulate a creative imagination.

  274. Robert Peffers says:

    @Cubby says: 5 May, 2019 at 6:43 pm:

    ” … No need to repeat yourself in your post Mr Peffers. LOL”

    Aye! Sorry about that but I had a very strange glitch in my laptop. I got to the end of what I wanted to say.

    I usually cut & paste & paste what I’m replying to into the comment box. Then select the parts I want to reply to and answer that part. Then scroll down and delete any bits in between and answer the next bit and so on.

    This time, I know not why, I couldn’t scroll down beyond the end of the bit already shown and I couldn’t scroll back up beyond the bit in the comments box. The wee vertical typing cursor would only scroll up to the top of the bit in the comment window and then only scroll down again to the bottom of the comment window.

    I had no idea of what was above to check it for errors and didn’t know what lay below where I had got stuck.

    After trying all combinations of keystrokes I sent the comment, restarted the laptop and the glitch had gone. I don’t know if it was a computer glitch or a browser glitch or even a keyboard glitch.

  275. Tony O"neill says:

    Don’t know what happened to my post, in places it’s a bit muddled sorry folks.

  276. jfngw says:


    The problem most journalist like Mackay & Leask is they have narcissistic streak, in fact many journalists I encountered (and I did meet a few in my time) had an arrogance that would even make a politician blush. Although compared to the sports dept journalists (who all seemed to be members of DENSA) they were an elite.

  277. Ken500 says:

    There are shortbread factories all over Scotland churning out shortbread covered in Union jacks.

    The only ones scared of a few Saltires are the unionists. That’s why they try to ban them.

    Ban them

  278. geeo says:

    Robertthe’truthless’slaver said: Attack the message not the messenger.


    It is the messenger who writes the message on places like this, unless they are DELIVERING the message from another source.

    Your message, is the message of “SNP BAD” and while not uniquely your message, it is YOU, the messenger delivering YOUR message on here.

    Trouble is, your message is a drivelous soundbite of dog whistle slavers, which needs not a second wasted on it, so YOU become fair game as the slavering messenger, to chastise and ridicule.

    Something you do pretty well without any help to be fair.

    Is Angus Robertson on my side you ask ?

    Hell yes he is.

    Are you ?

    Not a hope.

    Scotland has wonderful air, pity there are oxygen thieves like you around, who draw that great Scottish air, then pollute it with drivelous emmissions.

    Have a nice day.

  279. yesindyref2 says:

    I was just thinking about it. People tuning in to the SH expecting maybe a good article about the March, certainly from a genuine Indy supporter, and instead of that finding a fairly non-directional nasty criticism piece – and one closed to comments.

    So, being closed, people’s only resort is to twitter, and then the self-righteous prick can say “A day of endless abuse for reporting a story accurately” – a self-fulfilling prophesy?

    No, it’s an old-fasioned UseNet troll – writing to genearte a reaction.

    Neil Mackay – you are a troll.


  280. Petra says:

    @ mike cassidy says at 7:11 pm … ”Petra – Thanks for the Willie Rennie info. Anybody got that footage?”

    It doesn’t seem to be on youtube Mike. Maybe someone will access it and give you a laugh.


    @ Legerwood says at 7:22 pm …. ”Petra – Thank you. I am getting really tired with people whose first recourse to any event/article is a negative one which, as in this case, gets the reaction the headline was designed to provoke. Did anyone really expect The Sunday Herald to have anything on its front page today of all days other than some sort of SNP bad, SNP war etc etc. As to the timing of the comments by Angus Robertson etc how does anyone know when they made them? The Herald may have interviewed them some days ago and held them back for just such an occasion. The Herald is also into recycling/rehashing stories so it is very possible some of these are culled from other articles. This recycling of stories is happening quite often now in the Herald and I think it is a sign of how strapped they are for cash and for staff. Surprised Ms Cherry waded in since there was a piece within the articles giving examples of the abuse women are subjected to.”

    Spot on Legerwood. It’s amazing how some people are so easily duped and of course there are others on here who have their own axe to grind. The SNP contributors to the article could in fact have gone on about Unionist online abuse, at some length, such as Nicola Sturgeon being sent death threats on a regular basis and the hounding of people like Joanna Cherry, however newspapers like the Herald can edit (omit) as suits them without actually lying. The problem for our SNP politicians is if they didn’t give interviews to newspapers, BBC / STV etc, no one would know that they even existed. Better for them to have their say and for us to complain btl on newspapers and directly to the BBC / STV if we’re unhappy with what’s going on.


    I had a real laugh watching the news earlier tonight (ITV-UK) when they covered McDonnell saying that the next Tory leader, say Johnston, could renege on the Brexit deal. That was followed by the reporter mentioning that the former chairman of the Scottish Conservative party, Peter Duncan, had suggested that someone like Johnston would be toxic for the Tories in Scotland and that they should break away from London. Then they showed Rooth with the big Mooth, on the Marr Show, stating that they wouldn’t be breaking away from London, Johnson or not. Great stuff I say. Carry on Ruth, blabbing away on television and radio putting her big foot in it and ultimately having to do a U-turn in relation to everything she says, no doubt.

  281. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mad Unionist says: 5 May, 2019 at 7:15 pm:

    … I am sure you remember Mr Chappel who witchunted the Commies. The mistake the Commies made was allegedly rigging the ballots.”

    I was stewarding then and knew all the top commies in the union and the stewards in the Ship building and ship repair/refitting industry. By the way. Rigging the ballots wasn’t all the commies were up to.

    I believe i was the only SNP supporting shop steward in Scotland at that time. Anyhow it was a good learning process – I learned just how the Labour & Communist lot worked.

    The most laughable is still how Labour behave – even in the Holyrood parliament. James Kelly is a practitioner. Labour do not know what a Point of Order is. They seem to imagine it is a way to interrupt business to make any kind of complaint.

    A Point of Order is a question in a formal debate or meeting as to whether correct procedure is being followed.

    … “Sit down Mr Kelly that is not a point of Order,” and the idiot refused to sit down. No kidding the Labour people couldn’t understand that back then and don’t understand it today.

    Watch the Presiding Officer. How many times does he allow, particularly Labour MSPs, to waffle on with what is obviously more or less a propaganda exercise against the SNP than it is an actual Point of Order but should immediately shut the person down. Ken Macintosh lets them finish their spiel before then saying that is not a Point of Order.

    That’s just one of the things Labour people do there are many more examples.

  282. DerekM says:

    Ah here we go again another yoon attempt to shut down Wings aided by some of our so called friends again,deja vu anybody?

    LOL So i should listen to a political party which i am not a member and stop educating the poor downtrodden brits all over this island because it is vile and makes me a cybernat hmm and the survey says ….. piss off!

  283. Mad Unionist says:

    Ken500 @ 8:50pm. The Saltire is fixed firmly within the Union flag and that is why over two million voted to remain in the Union. We defeated the Nazis and will leave the EU fascist regime and the Union flag will fly proudly over the UK for your lifetime Mr Ken ra noo. It will be on your coffin when you snuff it. ?

  284. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Mad Unionist at 9:23 pm.

    You alleged,

    “The Saltire is fixed firmly within the Union flag and that is why over two million voted to remain in the Union.”

    The St Andrew’s Cross in Scotland, is known as the “Saltire”
    (hence “The Saltire Society” – check out the links)…

    The Saltire, as the national flag of Scotland, has, officially, a shade of blue known to printers and graphic artists as “Pantone 300” AKA “sky blue”, to reflect the legend of the saltire seen in the sky, prior to the battle of Athelstaneford, in 832AD.

    That UK flag does, indeed, have a St Andrew’s cross as a background, but it is not a Saltire (the flag of Scotland), as the official shade of blue of the union flag is “Pantone 280”, a much darker blue. There are suggestions that a darker shade of blue was used to mitigate against fading – I can’t possibly comment on that. (It’s fading soon, for a’ that…)

    Therefore, your assertion that “the Saltire is fixed firmly within the Union flag” is pro-unionist, dribbling puhsh.

  285. Mad Unionist says:

    Robert Peffers @ 9:17pm. Having read your comment it seems it is more about your Nationalist political views and not the advancement of working conditions and pay. The Commies and the left fought hard to obtain good working conditions some of those representatives suffered in personal family life and health for their sacrifice. You need to look in the mirror Mr Peffers whilst having your nails manicured.

  286. Scotspatriot says:

    Why bother arguing against crazy British Nationalist logic…..a waste of energy….ignore the banal, idiotic posts !

  287. carjamtic says:

    One persons Poetry is another persons Piss take.

    ‘Bandit,savage,reiver,devil,scum – he’s saddled with his titles to kingdom come.
    To him,useless resentments all gone numb.’

    ‘At Freedom square, in the middle of the day, a woman is pissing all over the pavement ,no one cares’ (apologies to EM).

    Scottish Friction, Scottish Fiction.

  288. Cubby says:


    “Have a nice day”

    Is the Herald dishing out be nice to trolls pills. LOL

  289. Mad Unionist says:

    Brian Doonthetoon @ 9:23pm. I never actually took the different shades of blue into consideration which are of course important! And if I caused offence I must apologise.

  290. geeo says:

    @cubby 10.07pm

    They should hand out bog rolls with that rag.

  291. Cubby says:


    Chill out yourself you shit stirrer. You are full of it. Your posts deserve no respect nor does the messenger. Just another flavour of disrupter.

  292. Dan says:

    For those that are not on twitter and may have missed the earlier re-tweet in the Wings side bar.
    Some cracking images in the tweet thread of the day highlighting the diversity and good nature of those attending the march.

    If you close the tweet there’s also some other pics in YoorWullie’s feed.
    There’s plenty doggies too Auld Bob seeing you mentioned them up thread. Not seen one of the lovely Samoyed on Glasgow Green though.
    And on the subject of large white 4 legged things, the Unicorn buzzing round the Green to the tune of Soul Man was ace!

    So so day for me getting folk registered to vote. One EU National family can see what is going on and are registering but the other are considering heading back to their native country as don’t like the inward isolationist direction the UK is going in.
    I left an info sheet for them to read over that will hopefully inform them Scotland will do what we can to protect them and that we need young families like them here.
    I’ll chase them up tomorrow to see if they will at least offer their support to the country that has been their home for years, regardless of what they ultimately decide to do.

  293. Betty Boop says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson, 10:04am


    Thanks for the mention Ronnie. Hope you are recovering; JimT and I taking it easier today. Hoarse voice and think I’ve misplaced some muscles over the years. Some day I’ll actually use a seat!

    Always a pleasure to work the Wings stall even if it is from stupid-o’clock in the morning as usual for setting up till dismantling, getting on for 8 o’clock last night!

    Enjoyed the usual camaraderie/co-operation with other stalls and pleased we could host Wee Ginger Dug and Paul Colvin on our pitches.

    Also good to have the company of LizG for the first time yesterday, also the old team, Brian and Chris, Paul, Annie, missed Pete who couldn’t make it, visits from numerous Wingers, X-Sticks always a pleasure, and I am sorry for any I didn’t get a chance to speak to (that’s a lot), but, the Wings stall is always busy.

    It’s a trade off for us; we don’t get the experience of the march and the adrenaline rush it brings and don’t see much from the stalls once the marchers arrive, but, we do manage to raise some funds for worthy indy causes and other charities. So, thanks to those who visited and donated, came along and gave us a laugh or said hello.

    Another good day, as it always is with Wingers, even if we are a bit the worse for wear :-). Thanks Ronnie for your efforts.

  294. Cubby says:


    Mr Truth and the other shit stirrers on Wings could certainly use them they must get in a terrible mess with all that shit they are piling our way. They probably stink as well.

  295. HandandShrimp says:

    Don’t know what Ronnie is feeding that stall but I swear every time I see it it is bigger. I’m expecting a marquee at the next big rally 🙂

  296. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Mad Unionist.

    I’m always happy to bring things, that may have not been considered, to attention.

    The planet is full of grey hues, hence “politics”.

  297. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mad Unionist says: 5 May, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

    ” … Robert Peffers @ 9:17pm. Having read your comment it seems it is more about your Nationalist political views and not the advancement of working conditions and pay.”

    You do talk a right load of claptrap. Nothing I said indicated in any way that my members even knew what my politics were. It never entered the matter in any way. First I was elected rather against my will for I never put myself forward for the job.

    Having accepted it, as is my nature, I did it to the best of my ability. I was subsequently re-elected for over 15 years. The workshop was of many mixed trades, plus several different skilled and unskilled labourers and a few office staff.

    The Dockyard was/is an enormous area and I ended up unofficially taking on the day to day problems members of all the other unions for all matters to do with the workshop but obviously not such things as wages. This was by agreement with the other unions.

    In those 15 years I never lost a case. That is why they kept re-electing me.

    Now just what was it you imagined it was all about my nationalist support and not about the members needs?

    I’m not kidding, I took on and fought for equal pay for the female cleaners who were displeased with their own union’s attitude in that matter and joined the EEPTU.

    I won the case by getting the male and female Labourers to agree to undertake each others work. This involved both lots getting trained in the use of the lifting and shifting equipment that the men should have been trained to use.

    This gear had lain unused and the men were physically lifting heavy units up onto benches, It was a kind of, “see me I’m a tough guy”, macho sort of thing.

    Now some of those cleaners were divorcees, widows and single women on very low wages. Anyway after getting the training in the use of lifting and shifting gear several of the male labourers quietly thanked me and said they should have been better trained years before.

    When I retired a bit early to care for my sick and disabled wife more than one of those ladies cried. So awa and chase yourself – everyone in Scotland hasn’t got the cruel Tory mentality that is factually killing people off while getting richer themselves. I worked hard for others for free.

    In the years when these despicable people impose austerity upon others and claim, “We are all in this together”, the wealthiest strata in the United Kingdom have well over doubled their personal wealth while the gap between the rich and poor has widened,

    This while they are killing off the most vulnerable people in this dreadful United Kingdom by depriving them of enough money to live on. That means these immoral people are living high on the hog by picking the pockets of the sick, disabled old and out of work.

  298. Liz g says:

    Handandshrimp @ 10.37
    You aint seen nuthing yet 🙂

  299. Capella says:

    Got this link from Stu’s twitter. A German film about the illegality of the BREXIT vote. Most of the dialogue is in English but dubbed over in German but there are subtitles.

    Looks at the methods used by Nigel Farage, Aaron Banks, Cambridge Analytica, AggregateIQ and the American far right. Oddly, they want to blame Putin too but it’s not clear how. Worth a watch anyway. No mention of the Scottish Referendum but it’s hard to believe that these methods weren’t/aren’t used here too.

    Bizarre that the EU ref hasn’t been declared null and void. There are 9 criminal investigations ongoing.

  300. Mad Unionist says:

    Might as well leave the lame and lazy Scottish nationalist middle class luvvies to pat each other on the back for their great march. Mao would be proud of them! AYE.

  301. Mad Unionist says:

    Robert Peffers @ 11:07pm. You are a bummer. Real Trade Unionists do not bum. You are a Walter Mitty character. Your long winded post is your disgrace.

  302. Hamish100 says:

    Mad dog –puir we sowel. could you no bang a wee drum around George Square?
    Hingin aboot street corners is a bit weird at your age.

  303. Liz g says:

    Mad British Nationalist @ 11.04
    You seem a tad obsessed with bums
    Everybuddys goat wan ye know even auld Lizzie Sax – uby – Gota!

  304. jfngw says:

    Of course a lot of the political carpetbaggers that are more interested in power than integrity that once were Labour may have attached themselves to the SNP. They know Labour is a lost cause and just want a position of power or to push their pet peeves, independence is secondary.

  305. North chiel says:

    Fine sentiments in the last two paragraphs of your post “ Robert Peffers @ 2307” , I agree we deserve better for Scotland our country than what’s being imposed on our people by this despicable & rotten Tory Britnat regime,

  306. Mad Unionist says:

    Liz g @ midnight, would you sell your bahooky for independence or hang around for another hundred years of the Union. Your call Liz!

  307. Cubby says:

    Debate Night – tonight on the new BBC Scotland channel.

    At the march on Saturday a friend tells me that this programme is much better than Question Time. More balanced less bias.

    I decided to try it out. I truly wish I hadn’t. Reasons:

    1. The first question – it is the other 4 on the panel ganging up on the SNP MSP. Three Britnat MSPs and a solicitor who just happens to agree with the Tory MSP. Balance you are having a laugh BBC.

    2. A young student in the audience is giving the Tory a torrid time. The Tory MSP is struggling with answers – next minute there is an artificial cut to the film to Jardine who moves on to the next question. The BBC doing its same old trick – cut out the bits you don’t want broadcast.

    3. The solicitor on the panel who says she doesn’t know much about hospitals – raises the KILLER SCOTTISH PIGEONS again. Will somebody just terminate all the killer pigeons in Scotland please. Sick of this crap. Not pigeon crap but crap about Scottish pigeons. Is there anything in Scotland that Britnats don’t think is crap. Oh yes I forgot it is the media – the Britnat media – so it is not Scottish therefore is not crap.

    4. Jardin in general was fair and balanced as far as he could be with a panel of 4 against 1 SNP. The basic set up was unbalanced.

    5. Stupid really stupid Britnats in the audience. One says the Scottish pound is not accepted across the border at present so it will be a lot worse with independence. Another seems to think that interchangeable currency across the border will only work if Scotland has the Euro but Scotland will not be allowed in the EU.

    A dreadful programme full of (as Peffers calls them ) low flying jimmies.

  308. Petra says:

    Robert (P) I must say that I really, really love reading your posts, in particular your more personal accounts. Scottish history in the making! You say that you are in your eighties and it’s clear from your posts on here that you’ve been around, have had loads of adventures, are extremely knowledgeable and experienced in life in general. You tell us so much but we know, I know, that there’s so much more to be divulged. Maybe you think such data is not relevant but being as curious as I am I’m totally dissatisfied, lol.

    My neighbour will be 98 this month (Independence supporter) and I just adore being in her company. She’s highly intelligent, her memory is excellent and she also has a fantastic sense of humour. She too also comes out with one amazing story after another, especially in relation to her Worldwide travels as the editor of a prestigious magazine and her father being a Captain in the RN. Reading what you have to say and listening to her reminds me that we should be recording your lifetime of experiences. What a waste if we don’t. Robert you should set up your own site and record your life from day one, hopefully covering events until you’re well over 100 years old. Leave a fabulous historical legacy.

    And by the way I don’t want to impose myself on you, visit you without an invitation, but if you could make it to the West Coast, with my help, you would be made most welcome and very comfortable here in my home. An offer I make to very few people. Spend a weekend or a few days here. More time if you like. Whatever the case, visit or not, I would like to say that it’s great knowing you, Robert. Knowing someone as best as one can on an Internet site. You’re a fantastic guy, imo, who has supported the SNP since it was deemed to be the “loony party” and have managed to get through that negativity over many years to contribute GREATLY on here. Yes GREATLY. Amazing especially taking into account the “attacks” that you have been subjected to on this site. See them as being a compliment Robert. You’re a threat to the Establishment. And even now you keep going through your own trials and tribulations of disability, ill health and bereavement. Robert the Bruce would be proud of you Robert, as he would be frowning down on our lazy, fair weather friends. Anyway signing off now by saying thank you Robert. My parents paid for me to attend a fee paying school. You gave me an education for nothing. Keep well my friend. We need you X

  309. crazycat says:

    BDTT at 9.48

    You were absolutely right to call out Mad Unionist about the colours of the flags, and he was good enough to acknowledge this.

    As a pedant, however, I’m going to take issue with this statement of yours:

    That UK flag does, indeed, have a St Andrew’s cross as a background, but it is not a Saltire

    Heraldically, any* diagonal cross is a saltire. So the UK flag does, indeed, have a saltire as a background, but it is not the Saltire (with a capital S), due to the difference in colour.

    *A St. Patrick’s cross is a red saltire on a white ground, blazoned as “argent, a saltire gules”, for instance.

  310. Liz g says:

    Mad British Nationalist @ 12.12
    I’ll have nae need tae sell ma bahookie Petal
    When you’re so willing tae offer yours.
    Question is are ye offering up yer kids behind tae Westminster too?
    Are ye that enthralled, ye would still see those pederasts in charge of you and yours ?
    Even now ,knowing what ye know,and knowing that we know it too, you claim Westminster is the best Government for Scotland ??
    GO ON
    CONVINCE ME ??????????

  311. Liz g says:

    Wings Civil war
    Crazycat @ 1.06….
    ………….. V ………..,
    Briandoonthetoon @ 9. 48

    The Battle of the Saltire……

    Liz g …

    You feckin kids are driving me crazy ( not mad enough to be a mad British Nationalist, you’d never do that 🙂 )
    Anyhoo… The winner will be decided by a long jump at the next Wings night out..
    Start training 🙂

  312. Petra says:

    I love the Saltire. Really, really love it. So happy that it’s our flag. Honest, true and (Sky) blue. There’s no other flag in the World to compare with ours other than the Greeks, imo. Watching it flying against a clear blue sky relaxes me no end, inspires me, and reminds me of our ultimate quest in life: to do our utmost to bring about peace on this planet.

    It may sound ridiculous, utterly impossible, but I reckon that we can do it. Yes we CAN. The Scots already renowned Worldwide for their many positive contributions, so why not the greatest contribution of all now? It’s what we were meant to do. Rid our country of nuclear weapons whilst encouraging others to do likewise .. for a start. And then what? The sky’s the limit. No stopping us.

    Meanwhile the ugly, angry looking, toxic, warmongering Union Flag made even uglier without us. Our blue input. Out. Imagine that!

    Without our flag, our colours, our creme de la creme intelligentsia, our cannon fodder contribution and more so without our money England becomes one of the smallest, poorest and most ignorant (stupid), insular countries in the World. Shame because it’s not exactly the outcome that we Scots actually wanted, envisaged, for them. We’ve tried, Nicola Sturgeon has tried but then there comes a point when 5 million Scots can do nought to help 55 million English people who are unwilling to help themselves. Maybe a change to the look of their flag will help them to focus their minds?

  313. Petra says:

    And why are they, such as Queen Lizzie, still hanging onto the St Patrick’s Cross in the Union Fleg?

    When we go our colours, our flag goes with us. Then I hope we’ll bring Mary Queen of Scots home. Out of her hellhole. Referendum to be held: reburied in Scotland or France?

  314. Petra says:

    Now check them out. Who’s got the best looking flag in the World?

  315. Petra says:

    And before I get off to my bed I would just like to say that it’s not WGD’s crowdfunder time, but what about us all giving him a wee lift? A wee thank you. For example one hundred of us at £20 a time would afford Paul and his partner a holiday / much needed break. More might get him a half decent car. Show him how much we really appreciate him, as we truly do. Great guy who’s never given up on us and one day, in the not too distant future, we’ll all be demanding, yeah demanding, that he gets a decent, well paid job in our new found Independent Scottish media. Professor John Robertson is another.

  316. iainmore says:

    Is it me or do the Yoons appear to be obsessed with rear ends?

  317. Iain 2 says:

    I supose that a march through Glasgow that attracted 1in 30 of the population and yet recived no mention from the britnat media must be considered a failure, then again it could be that the britnat panic flaps are deployed.

  318. Robert Louis says:

    Anybody have a full listing of the next few indy marches??

  319. Ken500 says:

    Lots of people in Scotland never used to be flag waving enthusiasts. Now they are and they enjoy it because it is fun, a great day out, form of expression of solidarity and hope. It looks grand as well as feeling great with like minded people. A real tonic. Blue and white like the sky. Heaven. Yellow for the sun up above. Shining bright. Optimistic for democracy and democratic rights. People in Dcotlabd to chose their own destiny instead of being dragged in the gutter of Westminster unionist corruption and lunacy. The psycho bastards.

    That’s what they call themselves. It fits. Major called them ‘bastards’. Over EU matters. Cameron called them psychos. The average party member male and over seventy. Living in the pass. Not looking to the future of the young. They support the EU.

  320. Ken500 says:

    Google or whatever the Marches dates It will be on the internet. August Aberdeen

    EU Campaign has started. Donate EU leaflet deliveries. The SNP are organised. That’s why it is better to join. To do your part. Everybody can do what they can and they do. It is great to campaign with like minded people. It gives a sense of belonging, friendship, achievement and good fun.

    Altruism make people feel good. It’s not about money. It is what can be done to help others, A recognised human trait. People who are depressed can feel better by helping others. Some need medication but they can still help others and campaign. The excercise is good. Get out and about. If people can manage.

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other person to vote too. Job done.

    The National is asking for subscribitions but their website has problems. You have to register. Then the message comes up the e-mail/password are incompatible. So change pass word. The link does not work. People are reluctant to fund the Herald. It is separate but still Newsquest.

  321. Robin says:

    I would love to know how the 23 year old Shonagh Munro would vote now???
    Perhaps she could get in touch with Phantom Power and do one of their films.

  322. Capella says:

    Anyone who travels around Scandinavia and Netherlands will notice how many flags are fluttering in every town and village. They fly them on public buildings, in village centres and many homes have their own flag pole. There is nothing nationalistic about it. They are confident in their ability to manage their own country and reflect their own values in society. They have the government they vote for.

    But here in Scotland we are supposed to cringe at the thought of governing ourselves and taking pride in our country and flying our own flag.

    Who could possibly be proud of the UK and want to display the hated Union Jack? Hated by millions of people around the world who suffered under British colonial rule.

    Shame is the appropriate feeling under Westminster rule. Cringe whenever Theresa May, Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnston, Michael Gove, Gavin Williamson, Jeremy Hunt & Co appear on TV spouting absolute idiocy. Disgust that we are still obliged to live under the embarrassing Tory shambles government of thieves and liars with their regional outposts in Holyrood and Pacific Quay.

    Pity that so many Scots are deluded and tricked by the lying media into giving up their right to govern Scotland in a fair and just manner.

  323. Breeks says:

    Wee tweak in the perspective…

    Do you think we’d be talking about the subtleties of cybernat and SNP relations if it had been Ruth Davidson rather than Joanna Cherry who required Police protection after what I presume must have very credible death threats?

    Why isn’t the “Scottish” media doorstepping Unionist MP’s and MSP’s demanding calls for them to reign in their extremists and condemn the threats of violence?

    For once, and it’s perhaps the only time I can remember, I disagree with Wee Ginger Dug. The BBC is NOT exercising double standards. It isn’t about standards, it’s a psychotic singularity of purpose to discredit and undermine Scotland. It is ALWAYS a psychotic singularity of purpose. If you believe the BBC is trying to be fair but let down by standard, that’s the credibly and cleverly deceptive part of the same psychosis.

    The Establishment media is the enemy inside our perimeter. They have us entranced the way a stoat mesmerises a hare.

    When oh when will we fight our campaign and not theirs??

    And just for the record, Ruth Davidson is back, and I’m quite pleased about it because she is as artless an adversary as we might ever hope to have against us, but to be dispassionate and objective, I don’t think she looks well.

  324. Ken500 says:

    The Union Jack has blood on it. Killed and maimed people all over the war. Against International Law. The illegal Balfour Agreement. Palestine. The illegal Partition of Ireland. The people of Ireland wanted Home rule/Independence. After wicked, vicious rule in Ireland. For unionist votes in Westminster. Total corruption.

    The Treaty of Union was not wanted in Scotland. Riots all over the place. Petitions sent to Edinburgh. The Treaties terms were reneged upon as soon as it was signed. The Jacobites Uprising 1715 and 1745. The terrible undemocratic way Scotland was treated. No allowed to carry a sword (protection) Not allowed to win a horse. (Transport) No allowed to display tartan. Ireland was the same. Subject to no relief from famine. Inhumane. A despicable disgrace.,

    Millions of Irish died. People were destitute. The Clearances. The Irish and people from Scotland had to emigrate worldwide. The Clearances from the land for sheep. The draconian Land Laws etc. Fsctor rents led to appalling poverty with little relief. ‘Foodbanks now. .

    Scotlsnd overtaxed to pay for Westminster unionist illegal wars. Forever. A total waste of monies.

  325. Ken500 says:

    The BBC are not winning. The SNP are winning.

    The BBC has no credibility. The viewer/ readership is low. No one watches it or listens to it. It’s reputation is poor and low. It is a tainted, biased organisation with absolutely no credibility. Controlled by Westminster. A propaganda unit. Most people do not bother with it. It has a low reputation and is shameless.

    The SNP is winning. Not the BBC going down the tubes, especially in Scotland. They are despicable.

    People get their information from the Internet. Share information. People are not fools. The BBC employed them. BBC is just a discredited propaganda unit. There are other news channels and lots of information on the Internet shared.

    Wings is really good for sharing information. Thanks to Rev Stu. Thanks forever. Beating them at their own game. Brilliant.

  326. Ken500 says:

    Ruth Davidson and her cronies could be vote out soon. At every election/Ref coming. Down and down they go. Back to oblivion. Liars always get found out.

  327. Dorothy Devine says:

    Petra , I have to endorse your tribute to Mr Peffers, I have learned a great deal from him and followed paths I didn’t know existed thanks to him and to many other Wingers.

    Of our flag , it was truly beautiful to see so many fluttering in the wind on Saturday but I do have a very large soft spot for an flag with a dragon thereon – I’m looking at you wee Wales and Bhutan.

  328. Iain 2 says:

    Would not the union jack disappear after Scottish independence as the uk is a bipart union make up of Scotland and England. When indy comes Northern Ireland and Wales are part of England at present.

  329. Gfaetheblock says:

    Iain 2 @ 0630

    1 in 30 is 181 000 people. Did you just make this number up?

    Also, I assume you do not class the BBC as the britnat media as they have carried the story since Friday.

    Making stuff up just distracts from what did happen on Saturday.

  330. Capella says:

    There is one newspaper that features the sea of Saltires from Saturday’s march. The National:

  331. manandboy says:

    Those with a British Colonial mind-set, believe that even now, the English Establishment have the God-given right to invade independent countries and subjugate them. In the past this was done by force, but in Scotland’s case, it was done by stealth, manipulation and intimidation. But the net effect was and is the same – Scotland became a colony of England. The rest is a lesson in how to control a population by propaganda. It continues to this day. Ask yourself, how many of Scotland’s 5.4 million people do you think know what A S Hosey has written below?

    Alastair Stephen Hosey in The National today :

    Westminster, is merely the seat of the ‘UK’ Parliament. It is not in and of itself a third party to a union of two. The UK, the UK Parliament, UK law and the UK Supreme Court only exist in the first place as long as the UK itself exists, and the UK itself only exists, with Scottish consent. A point fully recognised by the UK government and English lawyers in the Scottish Referendum of 2014 – A ‘union’ that Scotland can END.

    In accepting a union that Scotland can END, they simultaneously accepted that the union between Scotland and England does indeed exist on a clear legal, arithmetical and Constitutional 1-1 ratio. And in accepting a Scottish Referendum where Scotland could END the union, they simultaneously conceded ultimate Scottish Sovereignty. In a 1-1 ratio ‘union’, England can no more remove Scotland from Europe, than it can the United Kingdom. Yet another point acknowledged by the Scottish Referendum of 2014.

    And finally, The UK Government, with English legal advice, conceded that the Scots could decide their own EU fate. Here. ‘A vote for Scottish independence, is a vote to leave the European union’. UK legal precedent, with English lawyers’ approval, was then set on 18th September 2014. The Scots decided their own EU fate. Sturgeon need only demonstrate these simple facts to a UN Court of Law. They are, after all, easily verified. A matter of historical fact, not opinion.

    It is time. Expose English lies. Ignore the BBC, Donalda MacKinnon, Willie Rennie et al.

  332. Dr Jim says:

    One wonders after Independence what all the countries and overseas territories who incorporate the Union flag into their own flags will do with that part of a flag that will cease to represent their connection with the UK

  333. Iain 2 says:

    Sorry about the bag maths, never my strong point. Still it is a disgrace that the so called Scottish media ignores it.

  334. Giving Goose says:

    Catching up with the videos of the march.
    All that is required is to associate unionists & Britnats with the people featured in the “Braindead” clip that’s circulating.
    That is Britishness personified.
    British in a nutshell.
    And eye wateringly embarassing! Who would be Brit after watching and listening to that clip?

  335. Dr Jim says:

    I’m all for freedom of the press, but not the freedom of the press to lie, that’s subversion and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, if I lie I lie to one person and even then may be prosecuted for fraud if there’s financial gain, when the press lie they lie to nations and charge them for the privilege, that’s fraud too surely

  336. Ken500 says:

    There is trouble on the National website tryomg to subscribe. Register. Them a message the e-mal address and password are incompatible. The link for a new password does not work. No link appears. People have to phone to sort it out. Many might not bother.

  337. Dr Jim says:

    BBC news strategy:

    The First Minister says…then the BBC interview a professor nobody from a University in England to rubbish what she says

    Theresa May says, becomes fact with no rebuttal from anyone
    It would appear Scotland has no learned professors to do the same job in reverse

  338. Dan says:

    @Robert Louis at 7:02 am

    The next AUOB march dates according to their flyer are:

    Galashiels – 1st June

    Oban – 15th June

    Ayr – 6th July

    Cambeltown – 27th July

    Aberdeen – 17th August

    Perth – 7th September

    Edinburgh – 5th October

  339. manandboy says:

    Sometimes we look without seeing.

    At yesterday’s magnificent AUOB March in support of Independence, I looked at many, commercially-produced placards, like those which said ‘BREAKUP THE BRITISH STATE’ and ‘SCRAP TRIDENT’, and more than a few other messages too. Most also carried the name ‘Socialist Worker’, and some included ‘Independence’.

    Today, I see that the Socialist Worker, an anti-Capitalist revolutionary far-left Newspaper, cleverly joined the AUOB March to promote itself and its aims. Whatever else can be said about the presence of the Socialist Worker at the march, it reminds the Yes movement that we are flag rich but still perhaps just a little banner poor. So perhaps we might take a leaf out of the Socialist Worker’s book, and organise commercially produced placards for hand-held use in future marches.

  340. Breeks says:

    manandboy says:
    6 May, 2019 at 8:22 am

    Alastair Stephen Hosey in The National today :

    Westminster, is merely the seat of the ‘UK’ Parliament. It is not in and of itself a third party to a union of two.

    While true, and uplifting to read, it begs the question, what must be done to make it all stick? It’s all very well to say “The UK Government, with English legal advice, conceded that the Scots could decide their own EU fate”, but the fact is they are proceeding on a completely different presumption. It would appear they have conceded no such thing.

    When we put all our eggs into one basket, and cite the essential necessities of a democratic referendum, it seems to me we are making Independence contingent on the one box that isn’t ticked, but making no purchase whatsoever from the dozens of “other” boxes that are ticked; the Sovereignty of the people, the UN Human Rights of self determination, the primacy of Scots Law, the text of the Union Treaty…

    Some of these ticked boxes, Sovereignty for example, constitute a much more obdurate obstruction for the U.K. government to negotiate than an ephemeral result of an election or referendum. A referendum without sovereignty to underpin it is chaff that blows away in the wind.

    GET OUR CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION UNDERSTOOD AND ADHERED TO. Everything else will fall into place. MAKE IT STICK. The people of Scotland are sovereign.

    If we decide to remain signed up to the Union, our choice cannot be overruled or superseded by anybody except us.

    If we decide to remain in Europe, our choice cannot be overruled or superseded by anybody except us.

    If our sovereign choice to stay tied to the UK Union is emphatically irreconcilable with our equally sovereign choice to remain in the EU, then we must overrule or supersede one or other of these conflicting sovereign edicts. Something’s gotta give, but it is NOT the place of Westminster, or the BBC, to decide which sovereign edict is the superior of the other. THEY ARE NOT SOVEREIGN over our decisions.

    I appeal to OUR leadership, please, please, please abandon this stifling “enigmatic” procrastination and distraction of a referendum that every man and his dog knows WILL be compromised by Establishment indoctrination and interference, and distill Scotland’s Constitutional predicament to its simplest, barest essentials that CANNOT be altered… Scotland CANNOT be moved to do a thing or not do a thing against the will of the people.

    If we are daft enough, or brainwashed enough, or Constitutionally illiterate enough, to find ourselves corralled into an irreconcilable abstract dichotomy that the chaotic UK constitution has contrived, then more fool us for one thing, but when the nonsense of the smoke and mirrors has cleared, NOBODY except the sovereign Scottish people can DICTATE how that dichotomy is resolved. WE. ARE. FKN. SOVEREIGN!!!

  341. Dr Jim says:

    The SNP plans to cut emissions are the wrong plans and will make climate change worse and cause heat waves says the BBC after consulting yet another expert on how to rubbish everything the SNP say

    Perhaps the BBC would prefer the FM to just run around breathing the bad air in and blowing it into a bag

    Oh God what do you do with the bag? will it be the right bag? will it be a non plastic disposable bag?

    These questions and many more will never be answered by the BBC because that’s not why the BBC pose them is it

  342. galamcennalath says:

    Dr Jim says

    I’m all for freedom of the press, but not the freedom of the press to lie

    Indeed. So many things around us are regulated – we take it for granted, we expect it. We know it protects us. We buy products or services – an explicit contract and standards ensure everything should be right. We see or hear an advert and know, while there may be a bit of ‘polish’, that we are not being totally misled. All professionals work to standards and regulations – health, finance, legal, etc – that gives us trust in their abilities.

    And yet two areas remain a free-for-all jungle with no significant rules – news delivery and politics.

    Just imagine if the pages of adverts were full of false claims and subterfuge like the news pages – companies would go out of business.

    Just imagine if company directors misled stakeholders the way politicians misled routinely – said directors would end up in the pokey.

    So why shouldn’t there be strict regulatory standards for politics and news? They would still be free to carry on their trade, but just be forced to do it honestly. Bias and agenda would be possibly, if based in reality.

  343. mike cassidy says:

    In case you missed this.

    Kezia Dugdale: Richard Leonard ‘needs a second Independence referendum’ to prove his talents and beat Sturgeon and Davidson

    She’s trolling Labour now that she’s out, isn’t she?

  344. Breeks says:

    I have a lot of time for Mark McNaught. Back in 2014 when Newsnet was stronger he spoke a lot of sense, but with no disrespect intended, rather than seeing our Constitution modernised, I think we have a more immediate problem getting it recognised.

    I would much rather the Scottish Government set up a Scottish Constitutional Watchdog with two founding principles: to raise the profile and deepen the understanding of what Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty actually means, and secondly, to vet EVERYTHING which relates to the governing of Scotland for its constitutional integrity.

    Westminster has the House of Lords as a second Chamber to reviews laws from the Commons. Scotland might perhaps benefit from its own second chamber to grant or withhold a Constitutional endorsement as appropriate. If a piece of legislation from from either Westminster or Holyrood is in any way unconstitutional, it doesn’t get the Constitutional seal of approval.

    I know Constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster… that’s the very reason we need a Constitutional Watchdog to look after our interests.

  345. jfngw says:

    Journalists are not really interested in abuse online, it is merely a tool to push what really annoys them. It is when people who understand a subject point out their lazily researched inaccuracies. They want to return to being perceived as the fonts of knowledge and truth. They never were, as anyone who works in an area they write about can see clearly.

    @Dr Jim
    That’s the BBC got the air tax covered both ways then, cutting it is bad, not cutting it is bad. You have to admire their dedication to the cause, an expert available to cover every scenario.

  346. Ken500 says:

    There are already precedents established under International Law about the lack of Democracy in Scotland within the UK Union. It has already been established under International Law of self governance and self determination. Under EU/UN Intenational Law. A convention of people in Scotland established this fact. That is why Labour/Blair had to set up the Scottish Parliament. The Westminster Gov would have be chucked out of the EU and UN for not upholding International Law.

    It was recognised that Scotland has less Democrscy in the UK Union then the emerging Esstern European countries being help to sel determination and democracy. Former members of the USSR.

    Blair/Labour set it up with as little power as possible. So Westminster unionists could keep on illegally taking Scottish revenues and resources. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Scotland being over taxed to pay for Westminster illegal Wars, financial/bank fraud and tax evasion.

    It costs Scotland £20Billion for Westminster mismanagement. Oil & Gas sector,fishing and farmer. Mismanaged by Westminster unionists for whom Scotland did not vote.Taking £Billions from Scotland. The Oil and Gas sector over tax when prices had fallen. Illegally discarding fish for years. Taking £Milions from poorer Scottish farmers.

    Iraqi War, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

    Lord Cooper 1953. The precedent decision, established Scottish sovereignty lies with the people. EU/UN principles establish and support it. People in Scotland just need to vote for it.

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

    The Scottish Gov just needs to apply to the Courts for a S30. It will be granted because of the appalling way Scotland has been treated by Westminster unionists. The best time to have another IndyRef is when it can be won.

  347. Capella says:

    @ Dan 9.09 – thx for the list of AUOB march dates.
    Now that Ruth Davidson has labeled it a “hate march” and Ian Smart says we are a bunch of flag waving nazis and fascists (I hope I am not misquoting him there), it is clearly a civic duty to turn up to as many as possible with flags waving as prominently as possible.

  348. Ken500 says:

    Newsnet deleted and banned and tolerated unionists. Green content. Lead to it’s demise.

    Wings survives by supporting Independence and not tolerating unionists. There are plenty of places they can got to destroy the internet sites. Already done by them. An embarrassment.of lies and nonsense. They hsve plenty of sites to muck up.

    They are jealous of Wings. They are jealous and resent Rev Stu success. He outplays them every time. They are totally jealous of his success outsmarting them. Does so much better then them.

    A higher readership and support. Outplays them every time. That would not be hard. Calls the liars and sychophants out. They don’t half resent it. Mucks them up. With good analysis and the truth. The truth hurts the liars. When they do not get away with it.

  349. galamcennalath says:

    jfngw says:

    Journalists …. want to return to being perceived as the fonts of knowledge and truth. They never were, as anyone who works in an area they write about can see clearly.

    Definitely. A long time ago, when I did initially become an expert is certain fields, I was immediately aware of how poorly the media cover areas I understood. At best reporting was superficial and over simplicity, it could be inaccurate or at worst total bollocks.

    For me, journalists should have three roles. Firstly to explore, investigate, and bring into the public domain stories which may be intentionally hidden. Secondly to accurately summarise complex issues which are already in the public domain but remain inaccessible because the field is specialised. Thirdly to report news events honestly and without bias.

    Opinion pieces, bias, partisanship, and editorial have their place, but should be kept clearly separated from real news IMO.

    There are good journalists out there. Unfortunately their ‘space’ is also occupied by people who seem to have an obsession with being listened to! They care not for the quality of what they produce, just that folks heed their words. Then there are also the hordes of professional propagandists lurking in the shadows further dragging the profession down.

  350. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mad Unionist says: 5 May, 2019 at 11:41 pm:

    Robert Peffers @ 11:07pm. You are a bummer. Real Trade Unionists do not bum. You are a Walter Mitty character. Your long winded post is your disgrace.”

    Your every comment exposes you for the idiot British Nationalist you are. I’m not, as you term it, bumming. Just doing something you know absolutely nothing about – simply telling the truth.

    I wasn’t a steward for anything other than the good of my workmates. I had no ambitions to rise through the ranks of the Trade Union only to look after my workmates.

    Now away and bother some other blog, I think we just may be finished with you here. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not attempting to stop you commenting, go ahead if you must but I personally have finished with you. Attempting debate with such as you is futile.


    (1963) MALCOLM X,

    worth a read on a cold wet Monday,

    establishment exploitation and maipulation/control of grassroots movements in not a new thing.

  352. Ken500 says:

    One placard had an ill fitting portrait of liar Johnstone. That was quite a laugh. There were Ranger fans tops/scarves. Sports tops of every description. Many, many excellent coordinated outfits. A treat. An amazing Unicorn. A superb work of art. Impressive. Great MC, bands, music speeches. Good weather. A brilliant day out. It just gets better and better. Like the SNP Scottish governance . Impressive. AWPR/Queensferry Crossing etc etc. Totally Brilliant. Amazing. Scotland is a different place. Being brought into the 21C. It could be even better Independent. A great big melting pot.

  353. manandboy says:

    For our resident Unionist trollers.

    The BBC have started to ignore, almost completely, major Scottish events, like the SNP Conference and the AUOB march by circa 150,000 in Glasgow yesterday. But still, 90% of Scots cling to their £150-a-year-tax brainwashing machine – the telly. So what is it about the BBC then?



    The reason is because it claims to be perfect, everything you want it to be, as in its Mission Statement: “The mission of the BBC is to act in the public interest, serving all audiences through the provision of impartial, high-quality and distinctive output and services that inform, educate and entertain.”
    But nearly everyone knows this is not true.

    And, ” Our editorial values say: “The trust that our audience has in all our content underpins everything that we do. We are independent, impartial and honest. We are committed to achieving the highest standards of accuracy and impartiality and strive to avoid knowingly or materially misleading our audiences.”

    Particularly with Brexit, Jeremy Corbyn, Scottish Independence, Jimmy Saville and paedophiles at Westminster, this is blatantly untrue.

    1. The truth is the BBC is wholly owned and controlled by the British government.

    2. The truth is the BBC is unquestionably NOT

    3. The truth is the BBC must keep HIDDEN the truth about what the UK Government & Establishment is doing behind the scenes and out of sight.

    4. The greatest threat to the English Establishment and to how power is restricted to the Ruling Class is that it might be EXPOSED.

    5. But through events like Indy2014 and Brexit, the truth about how the UK is run by and for The Establishment, IS slowly being brought out into the open for all to see.

    6. Now we are seeing more than ever before, that the UK Government and Establishment is dishonest, incompetent, corrupt, racist, self-preserving, and uncaring of the population, particularly of the poor & needy, the sick and the disabled.

    7. Politicians like Theresa May and Ruth Davidson are forced to LIE, every day, about this state of affairs, in order to protect themselves and their associates in the Ruling Class.

    8. Still happy with the BBC? Naw, I didnae think so.

    So, ignore the BBC. Cash in your TV Licence (TV Tax). Vote SNP and support Scottish Independence.

    You know it makes sense – when you actually think about it.

  354. Cubby says:

    Robert Peffers@10.40pm

    People like the Mad British Nationalist are more likely to move don’t knows logging in to Wings towards independence as they are likely to think ” I don’t want to be associated with someone like that”. So I say let him keep on posting his mad moronic comments. He is too daft to realise he is helping the cause of independence.

    It’s the sneaky phoney independence supporters/false flag concern trolls that need calling out.

  355. Abulhaq says:

    @Robert Peffers
    No, not SNP, FM etc baaad, it is Unionism BAAAAD….the heidyins might be more ‘robust’ in their dealings with it. We’ve had the reasonable and the correct, it may be time for a no holds barred punch up. With the crude ‘might’ of the British state behind them they fight very dirty, why should the response be any different.
    Sure, I approach this matter from a different angle however you too must be feeling the frustration of being stuck on this slow train.


  356. Received wisdom is that: “World War II was the BBC’s finest hour.”

    This is undoubtedly true, inasmuch as, for that period between 1939 and 1945, they didn’t have to try to kid on they were “honest and impartial,” they were in full-on Backing Britain and the Allies mode.

    It helped them then, that, the world kind of knew, Josef Goebbels and his Nazi propaganda machine were born liars; any lies the BBC told were more likely to be believed.

    Today, the SNP and the Independence Movement are the enemy, a set-up which suits the BBC, they don’t have to try to be fair when dealing with us.

  357. Dr Jim says:

    Although I do kinda like the SNPs idea of being polite when calling out the Unionists with phrases like *I really think you chaps are being a tad disingenuous* or indeed the FMs favourite *serial misleaders* while allowing the opposition to keep calling us Fascists and Nazis giving our side of the political debate the opportunity to express their disgust and indignance at them for NOT holding themselves or their supporters to account for their abusive behaviour

    Caroline Flynt was apparently outraged disgusted and completely offended at the abuse she recieved from one such abuser who called her an *idiot* Wow!!

    I’m shocked to my very core at the depravity of such vile language, see now that’s going just a tad too far with the PC politeness outrage which is just as jolly well unpleasant a reaction to what might be considered no abuse whatsoever

    I seem to recall the speaker of the HOC using similar language to Andrea Leadsom and indeed Germy Corbyn did to Theresa May and neither political figure recanted or retracted those statements

    Internet abusers are cowards, we know that because they use anonymity to hide behind, but politicians are even bigger cowards because they use privilege for the same purpose

    If any of us used the Internet to say, abuse Labour Lawyer Ian Smart by continually calling him a Nazi or a Fascist he’d be sending the Internet Polis round to arrest us yet no such Internet Polis are turning up at Ian Smart’s door and banging him up for using the same language to half the nation

    Ruth Davidson said in newspaper print that we had a *hate march* on Saturday, now is that offensive or not, or is Ruth Davidson part of the protected species like Ian Smart

    What title is required in society to be allowed to abuse at will, is it a self conferred right or a BBC decision to arbitrate upon, will Katy Hopkins be arrested retrospectively

    I’ve been called an idiot and a fool many times to my face by my wife, was she abusing me, should I call the Polis?

    The way I see it abuse is determined by the abusee depending on their public position or faux indignation and reaction to the so called abuser in this new shiny politically correct age so we all have to be careful of what we say, think, feel, express or we’re for the high jump or even hauled off to the *Poky* a bit like the Japanese wearing masks to keep out the bad air? or is it so they can disguise their murmurings of discontent

    We’ll never know because most of us don’t possess the correct entitlement titles that give us immunity from condemnation or prosecution

    Be polite yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t give them hell when they deserve it, it’s your constitutional right and duty, that’s why they’re always polite to us when they ask us for our vote before they insult us later

  358. Abulhaq says:

    During indyref#1 Osborne implied that ‘they’ the English establishment would make things difficult for iScotland. That view did not go with his leaving Westminster. Indeed, for their cause ‘they’ would create a desert and call it a harmonious United Kingdom. What ‘they’ have to lose in terms of international and domestic prestige and face makes the ending of the Anglo-Scottish union quite ‘personal’.
    The hawkish squawks coming from members of the British army suggest defence of the realm and its sovereign integrity is more than just notional.

  359. Cubby says:

    If you want to see a hate march just go along to an orange order march or check it out on YouTube. Sectarian hatred.

  360. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 6 May, 2019 at 12:31 am:
    ” …

    ” … Robert you should set up your own site and record your life from day one, hopefully covering events until you’re well over 100 years old.”

    Matter of fact , Petra, I had my own website, back in the days when you had to construct websites by use of, “Notepad”, or similar text editors and learn to write HTML without the aid of compiler style programs.

    I had written wee stories for the local Community Council Magazine. These were about three old fictitious village worthies. Now this was long before, “Last of the Summer Wine”, began but the TV plot was, (with location and character name changes), the identical plot format.

    The Characters were Big Tam, (the clever one), Fat Jim and the lovable rogue, Wee Eck, with, of course their families the main one being Big Tam’s formidable better half, Big Bessie.

    Big Tam, and spouse, lived in a spotless, neat and tidy cottage with a beautiful garden. There was never a weed growing in that garden, (they wouldn’t dare).

    The Stories were called, “The Kelty Codgers”, and my website was called, “The Eck’s Files”. The site began just to carry, “The Kelty Codgers Short stories, (after they were in the Magazine), but it grew to include my own and other poems, my own longer short stories, disability Issues, Scots Language matters and lots more. I still have much of the material on Hard Disk, and DVD.

    However, after the car crash, (a drunk driver hit our car), it put my wife into a wheelchair for the rest of her painful life, (and left my increasingly disabled).

    I had my hands full as her sole carer and the Codgers Stories and the website had to be given up. So I still have the Kelty Codgers, my own poems, articles and other short stories but the website is long gone.

    Anyway, after the car crash and the long series of hospital treatments I bought a small Motorhome, (more like a big Campervan), the idea being more to transport my wife and her wheelchair and provide her with toilet facilities than anything else.

    However, we ended up with my first tiny Papillon trained as a Thereapet and spending our time visiting residential homes for children, disabled people, hospitals, hospices and such like. We covered the north of England to the Scottish North Coast most of the year and across the Scottish Central belt in the Winter Months, but here’s the point. On our travels we were not really interested in the scenery and whatnot but in the people.

    We would find a camp site, (mostly Camping & Caravanning Club farm sites), and then I’d push my wife’s wheelchair around the villages and towns meeting and talking with the local people. This was really fascinating and it is a fact, if you are able to draw people out without them being aware you are doing so, everyone has a story to tell.

    One such person, I will never forget, was from down in the town of Peebles. We passed the time of day with this old, (compared to us then), lady pruning roses in her garden. After a while we began to get her story. She had been trained in WWII as a spy and had, several times, been parachuted behind enemy lines to meet up with the French Resistance and train them.

    It took a while as we didn’t want to seem to be prying but eventually she brought out her medals. We found such people all over Britain for we did also take trips everywhere from Land’s End to John o’ Groats and most of the bigger islands.

    ” … And by the way I don’t want to impose myself on you, visit you without an invitation, but if you could make it to the West Coast, with my help, you would be made most welcome and very comfortable here in my home.”

    It is a very nice idea and I could travel anywhere under my own steam in the current camper van, now kitted out for my electric mobility scooter but I’m never done with either GP, hospital or other treatments so I don’t get far from home.

    It got so bad that I splashed out just under £2,000 on an electric assisted trike in order to be able to get a bit of exercise and fresh air. I was really fed up stuck in the house all the time.

    Obviously I cannot go very far away as I could need urgent treatment with no prior warning but I’m enjoying getting out more now. There is a wee bonus – the van is Diesel and Diesel not only costs more but it pollutes while the trike is clean and it only costs pennies per mile.

    The batteries are very expensive to buy but they can last for up to 10 years if only used as power assist and you use peddle power otherwise. The way these things work is you must turn the peddles, even if you are using electric power, but you do not need to put any effort into it. However, just letting the electric power do all the work shortens the range of miles you can cover and shortens the battery lifespan.

    “An offer I make to very few people. Spend a weekend or a few days here. More time if you like. Whatever the case, visit or not,”, I really appreciate the thought but reluctantly must turn it down. Believe it or not I have so many different health and disability problems I have to take 18 pills and capsules every day and that’s not including a, “Just in case”, heart spray. The annoying thing is that for 99.999% of the time I don’t feel too bad but I was getting more and more unfit because I couldn’t get out and about and get exercise. Mind you when certain problems do crop up they are devastating.

    I didn’t tell my GP about the trike until I was cycling and knew I wasn’t going to drop dead. He nearly dropped dead when I told him. After I demonstrated it to him, (he had a go himself), he thought it was a great idea, Mind you he changed his mind when I suggested he put it on prescription. :-))

    I can only thank you again for caring, Petra, but must reluctantly decline. Perhaps if I can get myself a bit more generally fitter I can get to a march. The Trike folds up so I can probably load it into the van. It’s probably too big for a train or bus even when folded. As my old Granny used to say, “Robin will no stick”.

  361. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says: 6 May, 2019 at 9:40 am:

    ” … Some of these ticked boxes, Sovereignty for example, constitute a much more obdurate obstruction for the U.K. government to negotiate than an ephemeral result of an election or referendum. A referendum without sovereignty to underpin it is chaff that blows away in the wind.”

    Now I’m not the best person to talk of long winded comments – so I won’t.

    However, I will talk of long winded comments designed to confuse issues rather than clarify them and this is classic Breeks obfuscation.

    Stop with this ticked boxes claptrap, Breeks, for the very plain, unvarnished truth is that the one unticked box is the most important, indeed the only box that even matters.

    The people of Scotland are undoubtedly legally sovereign but that is not the issue. Westminster has indeed conceded that they are – but again that is not the issue.

    Neither is the issue that Breeks and co. have their own agenda the issue is that for as long as that one unticked box is an agreed majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland no other ticked box matters a damn.

    Without it there is no majority call for anyone, or any organisation, to claim the Scots desire to be intendent and that, Breeks, is the one unticked box and you, and all the other usual suspects, are trying to engender a move that is doomed before it begins.

    Now why would anyone want to do that?

  362. Robert Peffers says:

    @Abulhaq says: 6 May, 2019 at 10:55 am:

    ” … No, not SNP, FM etc baaad, it is Unionism BAAAAD….”

    Well you sure as hell, have fooled me, Abulhaq, for every comment by you actually does claim the FM/SG/SNP are doing everything wrong and they should be doing what, Abulhaq, says they should be doing.

    ” … the heidyins might be more ‘robust’ in their dealings with it.”, Yes and they might be less robust too but who is best placed to know, the FM/SG/SNP who are at the heart of the independence movement and have been there since 1934 and thus have 85 accumulated years of experience at fighting the independence corner.

    I may be wrong but as the SNP of 1934 were treated as terrorists and the lunatic fringe watched over by MI5 and MI6 and were being arrested and flung in prison without charges ever being made or evidence ever produced, I rather think they may know better what they are doing especially as they have fetched the movement from that 1934 state to being the third biggest party in Westminster and being the Government of Scotland at Holyrood,

    ” … We’vie had the reasonable and the correct, it may be time for a no holds barred punch up. With the crude ‘might’ of the British state behind them they fight very dirty, why should the response be any different.”

    Yeah! But then again it may NOT be the time for a no holds barred punch up seeing as they most certainly, and without doubt, have the bigger height and heavier weight and the much longer reach. Not only that but the referee and the judges belong to the Westminster Establishment as well.

    ” … Sure, I approach this matter from a different angle,”

    Wll you sure as hell got that correct, Abulhaq.

    ” … however you too must be feeling the frustration of being stuck on this slow train.”

    Let me put it to you this way, Abulhaq, I began to support the SNP as a boy in around 1946. Now even as a boy I did not go into anything without having thought well about it first. So at around 10 or 11 years of age I made a decision that Scotland should return to being an independent country and I have never doubted that decision to be true.

    So don’t you think that after being patient for around 73 years and seeing the prize of independence now on the very cusp of being realised I just might be ready to wait a wee bit longer seeing as the trend seems to be moving towards independence rather than away from it?

    I’ve debated independence with MPs, Secretaries Of State, Chancellors of the Exchequer and even a Prime Minister, (I’ve Known Gordon Brown since he was only a Labour Candidate in Fife), and none of them could come close to proving me wrong.

    Now do you see what I mean about them having more weight, longer reach and a bigger punch? None of which makes them better boxers technically – it just means they are very much bigger, heavier and have a longer reach than a far better boxer in an evenly matched fight.

    David and Goliath is a fable and in real life Goliath will win unless Goliath is out thought, out maneuverer or hellish unlucky.

  363. Gary says:

    Yes, Mundell is a LIAR. And he is LYING not for the first time.

    Alistair Carmichael was alleged to have ‘leaked’ a story when he was a Cabinet Minister during the GE that Sturgeon was hoping for a Tory win (it WASN’T a leak, it was a LIE. No such conversation took place) At a later court case it was PROVED that Alistair Carmichael IS A LIAR and his denial of giving this LIE to the press to try and influence voters WAS A LIE) NB he has admitted that the contents of the memo WAS A LIE also. He is an admitted LIAR on both counts.

    Mundell shared an office with Carmichael and KNEW ALL ABOUT THIS. He has never been publicly asked about this. But his silence on these LIES are LIES themselves.

    The Tories, on the other hand, as a party, weren’t doing well in the polls and then, from NOWHERE, won the election with a majority of 100 (if memory serves me) This was the majority that May gave away holding her ‘snap election’ Just shows you should NEVER believe polls, doesn’t it?

    But what’s interesting is WHY they went from nowhere to a one hundred majority (well, it SHOULD interest you)

    The GE campaign was the one that showed Alex Salmond with a miniature Milliband in his top pocket. The Daily Mail reprinted a Scottish version of the ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech of Enoch Powell for God’s sake!!

    A vitriolic anti-Scottish campaign was run, fear was whipped up in English seats that Scots would be telling THEM what to do as there would be an SNP/Labour coalition with Alex Salmond in charge!

    And THAT campaign of fear, lies and racism WON Cameron a majority. Just what you’d expect from the Tories. An entire campaign of LIES.

    Milliband was a little ‘awkward’ and unpopular but under ‘normal’ circumstances had a fighting chance of a slim majority.

    Additionally, it just shows you. After 300 years of alleged ‘Union’ we have not been accepted in what is supposed to be our own country. WE were used as a fear campaign – openly…

  364. Cubby says:


    Very nice post that I concur with ( but not the invitation to stay bit LOL – sorry Mr Peffers).

  365. Mad Unionist says:

    Robert Peffers @ 10:40am.
    The few SNP stewards that did infiltrate TU movement was clearly intended to attack Labour as I personally witnessed at the Trades Council Carlton Place. The had the same agenda as the SWP and WRP.

  366. Hamish100 says:

    You are talking tripe.

    You don’t infiltratethe TU movement.

    You join as a member and pay your dues. Thought someone actively in the TU movement would know that.

  367. Mad Unionist says:

    Hamish100 @ 7:01pm. You are either a liar or a naive fool. Maybe both.

  368. Petra says:

    @ Robert at 12:52pm …..

    Pleased to see that you came across my post Robert and invite. Sorry that you can’t make that visit but take care of yourself and keep on trucking on here X

  369. Davosa says:

    What a disgusting, ugly, horrible, lying little prick Mundell is. Ill bet all the tweed wearers in his constituency are so vewy, vewy pwoud of their Fluffy. Just like the 100 or so incontinence pants wearing delegates at his Aberdeen conference slurped up all his lies and Colonel Buffalo Fucker’s too.

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