Coming to you live from 2019
Peter Arnott in The Global Dispatches, 29 January 2014:
And that, readers, is why it matters that I live in England.
SNP MSP Joan McAlpine made a very similar point to Arnott’s in the Daily Record on Monday, in a rather more specific context. In a week in which the Scottish Parliament enjoyed a rare moment of unity by agreeing to essentially pay Westminster a £50m ransom to release those held hostage by the coalition’s bedroom tax – money sacrificed from elsewhere in the Scottish budget – she noted:
“There is only so long you can keep patching the holes Westminster is shooting into the welfare state. Eventually the bucket will leak.”
Those quotes are relevant to our location because in an ongoing display of apparently unwitting irony, a section of vocal Unionists (both Labour and Tory) on social media frequently likes to deride the fact that this site campaigns for Scottish independence while its editor – hello! – currently lives outside Scotland.
(We’ll leave aside that such jeering borders on an ugly ethnic nationalism of exactly the sort they claim to decry, we’ll also turn a blind eye to the constant interference in the debate by English MPs and government ministers, and lastly we’ll gloss over the fact that the No campaign is openly recruiting and bussing in hordes of campaigners from England to “lovebomb” Scots with pleas for unity.)
Because the pertinence of my location to Arnott and McAlpine’s comments isn’t that it’s geographically outside Scotland, but that it’s five years into Scotland’s future.
The Scottish Parliament, as McAlpine notes, is essentially a firefighting operation. It has almost no control over the economy of Scotland, because the economy of Scotland is the economy of the UK, and as such is controlled by Westminster. When cuts are made in London, Holyrood has no levers with which to try to replace the missing money – all it can do is frantically jiggle stuff around, cut a few corners and try to make a few efficiency savings to delay the inevitable.
But there’s a limit to how thinly you can spread money before it simply won’t cover everything any more. The Scottish Government’s actions can buy some time, but with no money of its own that’s all it can buy. Sooner or later, as successive Westminster budgets turn the screw, what happens in England will come to Scotland.
And what’s happening in England? Bath, where I live, is one of the UK’s richest pockets. Because people have money house prices are mindboggling (the average is just shy of £300,000, almost exactly twice as high as Scotland and nearly 40% above even the Scottish hotspots of Edinburgh and Aberdeen), and unemployment is low (around 2.7% in the city and just 1.8% in the unitary-authority area), which means a relatively small benefits bill because more people are working and paying taxes.
Yet even here cuts are savage, with children, the elderly and the poor bearing the brunt in an area dominated by the Lib Dems and Conservatives. All manner of social services, from libraries to public toilets, are either being abolished, having their budgets slashed or having fees imposed on them. The city has already lost almost 90% of its post offices, with just one left to serve 80,000 people. Retail is struggling.
This is Scotland’s future, seen in advance. The inevitable end of the Barnett Formula after a No vote will turn the steady erosion that Holyrood has struggled to keep under control into a catastrophic tidal wave, overwhelming any defences the Scottish Parliament can put up no matter how diligently it strives to build a wall of sandbags. Because at the end of the day, even the most ingeniously-designed sandbag is no use when you haven’t got any sand – that is, money – to put in it.
By and large, Scottish voters are as ignorant of what goes on in England as their counterparts down here are of events north of the border. But readers, take it from your correspondent on the scene – what’s happening here is what’s coming to you if you don’t vote Yes, and you’re not going to like it one bit.
Yes, exactly Stuart. I too live in England and I’m seeing it all the time. I was urged recently by a bloke in the corner shop to sign a petition to save the local “dial a bus” as council cuts meant it was going and “old people can’t get to the shops to get their groceries”…
I had a letter from my council asking if I would rather have a council tax increase with all services or which services would I like to lose?
I think the point about ignorance of the other side of the border is a very significant one. When I had a debate with a No voter on Facebook recently who I know has never left SW Scotland I deliberately asked him if he had ever lived outside Scotland as I felt it was a very valuable experience and gave a fresh perspective on where I come from- he took umbrage at this and got defensive, I think he got the point I was trying to make.
And its name,s Austerity in the Extreme
Various analysts reckon that Westminster is little more than a third the way through the austerity cuts. That 60%plus are still to come in the three year budget plan for 2015-2018.
Regardless of which Tory is in No. 11 there will be sweeping cuts and social security budgets will be targeted.
It is also increasingly likely that Defence and other areas will also be cut and far from guaranteeing defence jobs a No vote could see Scotland with less defence work than an independent Scotland.
Im still trying to work out what Jackie Bird meant on BBC Scotland News last night with the headline “The SNP and Labour have agreed on measures to combat the Bedroom Tax”. I stupidly thought the SNP had a majority at Holyrood and Labour were irrelevant.
1 Post Office…in a few years, the old guy in Life of Brian citing “Crucifixion…you lucky lucky bstards!” will spring to mind.
The tragedy in this comes from Labour thinking in Scotland.
If Labour were to control Scotland they would use borrowing ‘powers’ in the Scotland Act 2012, to keep pretending they could protect Scottish workers from Westminster until we would be bankrupted and in total hock to the Treasury, then Westminster could take whatever it wanted; Scottish Water, Scottish NHS, wholesale fracking.
Remembering the Scotland Act allows for changes to income tax and borrowing, from the UK Treasury up to £5 billion. A poison chalice deal.
Somebody correct me on this if I am wrong, I would like to be wrong!
A stark reminder of the extremely high stakes of the referendum ‘game’ we are playing. We simply cannot afford to lose.
Most people in Scotland are not aware that large swathes of the NHS in England have been privatised This can only have a knock on effect in Scotland through the Barnett formula. What will happen over a number of years is the money from Westminster for the NHS in Scotland will be reduced Scotland will need to follow suit and privatise parts of the NHS in Scotland.
Are any England based Yes voters moving back to Scotland prior to D-Day? We need as many as we can!
I don’t care where you live, if it wasn’t for you starting wings there would be a lot of mushrooms living in Scotland.
And now Wings is here and really growing, all those Mainstream moguls are starting to feel the teeth clench tighter on their backsides!! You keep being that terrier in the room, more and more folk are looking for the truth and I always direct them here.
I live in England too (Oxford) and it’s clear that the whole shebang is being dragged into a maelstrom of neo-liberalism. Scotland has a lifeboat: use it and save yourselves!
Or Yes voters based anywhere else for that matter!
@Hewitt83
I’m trying my hardest! The job situation is frustrating to say the least…
Exactly.
Class-ridden Britain would rather go down the plug-hole than equalise the distribution of wealth and resources.
Scotland will never be considered ‘inclusive’ to such thinking – merely exploitable.
@ Calum
What is it you do mate?
If we don’t vote Yes, “will the last person to leave” Scotland “please turn out the lights”
Matters not where one lives. Look at the unionists who comment on the Herald and Scotsman, for example,who do not live in Scotland. OBE from Woking is a prime example.
Seems to me that its always been a case of do as I say not as I do.
So unless you have two horns and a tail who should give a damn?
Couldn’t agree more Rev. I’ve had this conversation only recently with a former no voting co worker. The kicker in our conversation came when she said, (from the perspective of a soft no), ‘we can always have another referendum if things get worse and anyhow we’ve got Holyrood to protect our services’.
My instant reply was very much along the same lines as this post. I pointed out that a no vote would give the green light to Westminster to push ahead with any kind of UK wide welfare reform it felt like. Holyrood would be no protection whatsoever. It would give Westminster the mandate to remove Barnett, alter Holyrood’s powers detrimentally or in fact recall powers. I also pointed out that fifteen or twenty years under such a regime is a long time, with no guarantee of another referendum at the back end of it.
I then pointed her in the direction of a few choice recent stories and releases which included those of Lang, Brown and Curran. The upshot anyway was that by the next day she was certainly asking about YES Scotland, did I have some addresses?
Vote NO and we hamstring Holyrood and the current Scottish government. Its that simple, its that certain. After the next raft of austerity measures we will lose those hard won services, we will lose the ability to see our children through free higher education. Jeez, they’ve literally spelt out the future of a no vote for us.
A NO vote IS NOT AN OPTION.
A cousin of mine , who has lived nearly all his life in England , moved to Scotland last year because in his words ” now that I’m 60 ill get looked after much better in Scotland ” ! Says it all !
What happens if 49.9% of Scotland votes YES?
Do they fob us off for another 20 years with airgun laws?
They can try!
What angers me is Carmichael and his likes, unelected, no mandate, running around telling people in Scotland their best interests lie in supporting Westminster’s economic agenda and foreign policy.
Have to admire your tenacity, Rev, living in lovely Bath at the moment ( without the ghastly summer traffic jams ). It took a move back to Scotland from Tunbridge Wells for me to refocus on independence, since no-one in Kent had the slightest interest in affairs so far away from the “soft under belly”, as my relative in Fraserburgh refers to the SE of England.
OK Wingers – can we find Calum a job in Scotland?
And anyone else for that matter who wants to came back and vote yes!
We need to get orginized to combat those people being
bussed into Scotland,and shadow them with flash mob
tactic,s.
WE need a Scottish part of operation of Wing,s for that
Moble number,s ect.
Rev, I leave that thought in your hand,s,we have plenty
of Inteligent organazisional people,( yes groups setup all
over Scotland, just some coordination,for emergency action.
After a NO vote, why would Westminster want to pay for a Parliament in Scotland when they can simply by-pass that Parliament and send pocket money directly to Scotland’s regions.
That is what Labour have planned for you if you vote NO. Listen to the up and coming Scottish Labour Party Conference in Perth next month.
Wee Johann will demand more powers for local government, aided and abetted by her other half, he who is 2nd in command at Glasgow City Council, and he who would be in control of millions of pounds of tax payers money.
If wee Johann gets her way, you try stopping her chanting her favourite tune,
“Happy Days Are Here Again
The Skies Above Are Clear Again
Let Us Sing A Song Of Cheer Again
Happy Days Are Here Again”.
William Mcilvanney on Scotland tonight last night when asked his intention for YES or NO in the referendum stated “it will be YES the consequences following a NO ”
The media in all forms is under direction of the ESTABLISHMENT hence England gets a different story from Scotland. DIVIDE AND RULE!
I live in Malaysia but I will be returning to vote Yes. (first post, wooo!)
@ Macandroid.
What line of work is Callum in?
I too live south of the border and i don’t mean Mexico. The absolute state of politics and those that vote for it basing their political acumen on whatever drivel is spoon fed to them down here is terrifying. All i hear is why does Scotland get free prescriptions’ education, nursing care for the elderly, eye tests etc etc. Why aren’t you asking these shyster’s you keep electing these very questions? The english electorate won’t fight for things they would rather look for someone to blame. Scotland has a golden opportunity to get away from this shambles.
Please don’t let this fantastic opportunity slip through your hands. I am a definite yes and so is my (English) wife but we can’t realisticly move back at the minute.
HandandShrimp says:
‘Various analysts reckon that Westminster is little more than a third the way through the austerity cuts. That 60%plus are still to come in the three year budget plan for 2015-2018.’
Yep thats very true, but it’s missing the far wider picture. Just now Westminster is adding £120bn a year to the debt, once they cut the spending by that amount then the deficit has gone. However, they then have to start paying off the national debt of £1.5T.
Back of the fag packet calculation:
If it takes three years to stop borrowing £120bn, then how long will it take to pay off the National Debt of £1.5T, over 12 times the size of the annual budget deficit ?
20 years ? 30 years ? Longer ?
Or, do we go back to casino banking relying on house price booms and failed neo-liberal de-regulation of markets to create another false economy in an attempt to reduce the debt quickly ?
I think even if we have some kind of economic miracle, austerity is still going to be with us in 10 years time.
Bath… been there once… the one way system is ‘interesting’ to the point that it eventually saw the wife finding the first available place to park and walk to where we were going instead. Which we knew had a carpark, but we were pretty well confused on how the hell to get to it, even with a map AND a satnav.
Anyway, your point about living outside Scotland is highly pertinent. I spent several years in Portsmouth, coming back to Scotland slightly before the real cuts kicked in but already the council was looking for major ideas to help cut their expenditure. I can only imagine what it’s like now; not improved seems a very sensible belief, even if it is a bit of an understatement. Councils all over England are getting hammered. And it’s coming to Scotland in the 2015/ 2016 fiscal year; I’m sure you can find a quote from George Osbourne saying pretty much exactly that. A yes vote will not prevent that; but it will ensure it’s a temporary measure.
I don’t tend to question where people live when they have opinions on Scotland, except the unionists who try to tell us what we can’t do, when we know it’s perfectly possible, and do so from a platform of highly limited knowledge unlike yourself. If their level of knowledge of Scotland and Scottish affairs is at a reasonable level then it’s fine; I’ll argue the other side without alluding to their lack of knowledge and their lack of vote. Otherwise dismissive best describes my tone.
@scaredy cat
Hewitt83 at 11:04 has asked him!
Do you want to live in a country called Scotland? or do you want to live in a region called Northern Britain?
This is the choice you are being given. If you want to live in a country called Scotland you will vote “Yes” and have all the democratic rights that an independent nation enjoys, such as the ability to vote for a government that represents you, control of your economy and a say in how that economy is best spent and a chance to change your country for the better. Oh I almost forgot a country with vast natural resources making it one of the richest countries in the world. However…
If you want to live in a region called Northern Britain you will vote “No”. You will still allow millionaires in suits 400 miles away, in a country called England, make your decisions for you. Probably a government that you did not vote for nor want, but hey…that’s living in a region for you. You will see a reduction in spending in your region as the “Barnett formula” which determines your annual spending will be replaced and you will be treated like any region of England (with the exception of the South East)i.e. your spending cut by somewhere on the region (no pun intended) of £4bn to £7bn. You will probably lose you existing regional government which has protected you from the full force of austerity thus far.
Not only that, as if that is not enough, but you still have over 50% of westminster’s austerity cuts to come. Oh and I nearly forgot to mention that your beloved regions natural resources of which there are many, will continue to be stolen and squandered to improve the lives of the few, to the detriment of the many, including your wee region!
So back to the original question…where do you want to live? There is only on truthful and honest answer!
The article in the Global Dispatches is what I thought we would get when the discussion about Independence really got off the ground, possibly even from both sides, instead of political dimwittery we did get from Darling, Curran, Carmichael etc.
I was thinking a while ago that no matter what, the Genie was out of the bottle. There were changes going on beyond the understanding of those politicians and political commentators in the press.
Great to see this so well summed up in the article.
desimond says:
6 February, 2014 at 10:51 Im still trying to work out what Jackie Bird meant on BBC Scotland News last night with the headline “The SNP and Labour have agreed on measures to combat the Bedroom Tax”. I stupidly thought the SNP had a majority at Holyrood and Labour were irrelevant.
Me too. It’s flatly irrelevant that they actually did something totally out of character and supported the budget; the budget was always going to pass because of the SNP majority. Unmentioned, of course, by the BBC. Who also, of course, on BBC Radio Scotland, gave the Tory finance spokesman this morning free rein to say why they didn’t vote for it, complete with very limited questioning.
BBC Reporting Scotland… as they’re told to.
@Macandroid.
Sorry, I missed that.
@Mr Angry,
Not only obe, but Peter Mosley is from Lytham St Annes, he dropped the place name shortly after joining the Herald board. The funny thing is, is that my brother stays just along the road in Blackpool, he’s English and also has the name Peter. Also my mother, who is from that area, had the same maiden name, Mosley’s. Not a name our location I’m going to forget.
@Macart.
You better tell your work-mate that there will never be another chance of a referendum after the 18th of Sept. if Scotland votes no.
Darling and Lamont have both said, in the past, that they will take the opportunity of a no vote to concrete-Darling, cement-Lamont into the UK.
That to me is political speak for making sure Scotland never gets the chance to vote again in an Independence referendum, they will rig it for sure.
“Yet even here cuts are savage, with children, the elderly and the poor bearing the brunt in an area dominated by the Lib Dems and Conservatives.”
I’m what that BBC grot Smoking Gun called last night a border hopper and this more or less sums up middle England. I’m alright jack, how much is my house worth now and so on. Its a mind set that’s changed Aberdeen and north east of Scotland so much and its a shame.
Dear Rev
Living in Bath must give you the occasional feeling of being in Georgian Edinburgh, but with canals and barges.
Following your example, and frustrated by the Guardian’s open door to insult aimed at our elected representatives by trolls and sociopaths, I established my own blog as a way of expressing hope and anger at Scotland’s situation, and the way a people are belittled and cheated.
grousebeater.wordpress.
More power to your elbow, and haste ye hame soon as you can manage.
Holyrood parliament TV starting.
Derek Bateman’s article on grumpy Ms Flint;
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com
“Ewing’s point is simple…that we have a power line supplying our neighbours with energy they can’t as yet generate themselves and because it comes from renewable sources, it counts towards their carbon reduction targets. It’s a double whammy for them and a win for us. Flint may not be happy at the thought of independence but her duty will be to provide the best value services for the people of rUK and to say otherwise is vindictive, small-minded nonsense.”
Rev, I think wings should an in depth expose on what we can expect the end of the barnet formula will do to scotland.Consider it our version of project fear,though prefer to call it project reality check,in my opinion not enough has been said about the reality of a no vote.
But aren’t Labour going to come to the rescue ?
Labour in Scotland = 3rd rate politicos with small minds but huge personal aspirations to wear ermine and adopt a title!
This is why Labour MSP’s are pushing the bedroom tax pitch so hard.
a) They “forced” the government to act.
b) Holyrood can mitigate the impact of Tory cuts
They go with the same arguement on welfare changes – “They could do it now”
People have to wake up to the fact that Holyrood cannot provide the services without the income. If they want a fairer society you need to be able to make the choices.
At the moment we are in a bobsleigh hurtling down the track. We can exercise some control but we are still going to end up screaming all the way to the bottom…!
@Hewitt83
I’m going to try my damndest to get over the border in good time.
Gonna need a wee job in the south-ish bit though!
Hoping to retire from the ‘big’ job in April but I’ll still need something to top the pension up!
Anyway, the only thing I want is to get out of this place this summer!
Just a quickie Stu and apologies if it has already been highlighted.
link to snp.org
@stephen brown 11.22 Good on you Stephen and welcome to Wings the home of cybernattery !
@Macart
Good stuff. Let her know too that that’s another 20 years of oil revenues down the pan too. As far as I understood the FT story on Sunday, we are being ripped off to the tune of 7 billion a year, so that’s 140 billion over the next 20 years.
All quiet on the BBC regards big story on Labour infighting over tax raising powers, BAE Systems investment and SNP FOI on UK gov puting pressure on defence execs to scaremonger.
The state broadcaster keeping you informed on all the big stories of the day!
@Hewitt83
@Macandroid
@scaredy cat
To use the euphemism, “it’s complicated”… Hence my challenges trying to get back north. I am very much aware of the clock ticking. Seven months to go, wish me luck!
My sister, who lives in London, had a problem with an ill son. Unable to get any useful weekend response with whatever constitutes NHS 24 in London she phoned up a doctor who came out, did a diagnosis in a few minutes, wrote a prescription and handed her a bill for £370.
This is what we face if we don’t get away.
She reported that insurance companies are now refusing to pay out on bills from private medical services that are contracted to serve huge areas of the NHS in England.
Thanks @jimsie its a no brainer for me
To second the comment about aberdeen. Not alot of people I know in Aberdeen (grew up there) are currently voting yes. Problem is its a bubble and has developed a selfish attitude. Saying that, my more selfless friends are voting yes
It’s quite simple, if we vote NO its suicide for Scotland & the Scots as both a country and a people.
When we vote YES it’s a gift of a forward looking, prosperous & fair nation for our children and their children and many generations to come.
even the most ingeniously-designed sandbag is no use when you haven’t got any sand – that is, money – to put in it.
I’m glad we’ve finally cleared up what the independent Scotland’s currency will be.
If there is a no vote would the election of a majority of SNP MP’S at the next general election not force Westminster’s hand? or indeed could the SNP not then declare UDI.
Confirmation, if it were needed, that there is no ‘Scottish’ labour, only a wee branch office in Scotland. Johann, bless her, is roundly reminded by her betters today.
Labour supporters in Scotland will see that options for change only lie with a stepping stone hop to YES and then get a proper Scottish labour party at the next elections after independence.
Taxi for Johann in any event.
link to archive.is
@Paul
UDI as you describe it is Plan B.
But we don’t ever want it to get to that stage …
Don’t larf, also coming to you live, no doubt broadcast live into Scottish living rooms from Kelso to Unst, because the Tory party really weally loves Scotland. First archive, woohoo!
link to archive.is
@Brian Powell
Being able to borrow money would be a good think in tight times, because we could invest in infrastructure, keeping construction workers in work through the recession and so on. Unfortunately, we do have the same problem as with childcare, that the Scottish government would not see the benefits of the greater tax take that would result.
Hooray for UK!!
Bombardier has won a £1bn contract to provide trains for the London Crossrail project, the government has announced.
The company will provide 65 trains for the Crossrail service, which is set to open in 2018.
The trains will be manufactured and assembled at Bombardier’s plant in Derby.
The Department for Transport (DfT) said Bombardier’s contract would support 760 manufacturing jobs and 80 apprenticeships.
In total, up to 340 new jobs will be created, said a spokesperson for Bombardier.
The DfT also said that about 74% of the amount spent on the contract would stay in the UK economy.
The Crossrail system is due to run from Maidenhead and Heathrow Airport in the west, to Abbey Wood and Shenfield in the east.
tartanfever
The problem with the debt is that as well as trying to pay it off they have to service the existing debt. Debt repayment will be the third largest expenditure item on the Treasury’s budget by around 2018 it will be at the £68b mark per annum just on interest (warning, these are OBR figures 🙂 )
As a friend of mine advised, for anyone who says they’ll be voting No in the referendum, just look them in the eye and tell them simply, “You’ll regret it.”
Oh dear, Johann Lamont has lost the plot at FMQs
“I suggest we should listen to what Bob Dudley says,” argues Johann Lamont. She goes on to call on the first minister to name any executives who back independence.
Get Ivan on the phone or give Jim McColl a nudge.
@heedtracker 12:12pm
What a laugh. 100,000? Could hardly get 100 last Friday.
Hmmmmm …. What’s an English Activist?
Hope it’s not too soon to go o/t:
I just wondered what you all make of this : someone posted this link on twitter last night. It is a page from the London Stock Exchange which states that the head office of RBS is in London and that the Edinburgh address is a branch office.
link to londonstockexchange.com
I have done a google and lots of other sites say that the HQ is in Edinburgh. Does anyone know for definite where it is?
Re. moving back hame.
I currently live in the south of Spain. In July I will be packing in my job and heading back to Scotland. My girlfriend has already been applying for jobs and will hopefully have found one before then and have moved back with the kids by Easter.
This is not a game, and some of us really are prepared to take a huge personal gamble. It’s not just about voting YES, though. It’s also about being back hame after a YES vote, and helping to build a new Scotland.
When I’ve mentioned this to some of my English friends down here they tend to either look at me as if I’m mad or they laugh, before they realise that I’m being serious. The concept that we can all, as individuals, work together to make our country better is entirely alien to them.
They have my pity.
“Deft use of the dark arts”. That’s a new name for it.
link to archive.is
I’m worn out with worry, that the threats will run out before referendum day… Geez! I can feel the spittle from the unionists spattering my face in their fury and hate as they shout and splutter their nonsense.
Gimme the ballot paper now to put my Saltire mark in the YES box.
@Calum Craig, move to Aberdeen, there is plenty work in th eoil industry. We are struggling to get staff, and train people in new trades
Reider O’Doom
Well said, that comment and the other similar ones above will rejuvenate us all. 🙂
I still truly believe we will get the desired YES Vote on Sept 18th.
However in the event of a NO Vote I hope the Scottish people are wise enough to send back 40+ SNP MPs to Westminster and not 40+ Labour appeasers.
Also in the event of a NO vote it would be wiser for SNP NOT to win the Scottish Election in 2016.
Let a Lab/Lib government inflict the pain and show the Scottish people exactly what their no vote caused.
Then in 2020 come back with a vengence to bring Independence then.
Since 2007 Independence has been a given the timing is the only issue.
Perhaps the wavering voters and No voters need reminded what happens when the Scottish Government is controlled from London and not the SNP.
Complained by email to my MSP about bias in BBC ! Nothing mentioned yet , so will have to be patient as I know that Alex Salmond has a definite agenda to follow .
Disappointed though !!
@ Mary Bruce. The RBS corporate website states that the headquarters are in Edinburgh. It is a Scottish company registered at Register House. However its various subsidiaries e.g. RBS Credit Cards, Ulster Bank, Natwest are registered in the countries they originate from. It is therefore a global organisation.
Correct Jimsie, the only truth that Cable spoke, was that RBS would have to have an HQ in London, in order to take care of RUK business, as they currently aren’t registered to do business in a RUK….
Oh dear, Johann Lamont has lost the plot at FMQs
I thought her plot fell irretrievably between the floorboard cracks last week. Does she have any plot left to lose?
O/T Got my cybernat badges today, they were in a royal mail “Apologies” bag, still sealed in the original envelope which looked like it got a soaking.
So its all above board, they probably got posted at the same time as the others that were reported to have “special handling”
Mary Bruce
Name & Registered Office:
THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY
36 ST ANDREW SQUARE
EDINBURGH
EH2 2YB
Company No. SC090312
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 31/10/1984
Name & Registered Office:
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC-THE
7 & 9 CHICHESTER STREET
BELFAST
BT1 4JG
Company No. NF002594
Status: Converted / Closed 16/04/2012
Date of registration: 26/09/1985
link to wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
Hope I’ve cleared that up. 🙂 Then again, the RBS is huge.
link to wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk
@ chalks. Yes you are right about that. I recall that when Santander entered the UK banking arena they had to register as a separate company in London.
I see another SLAB member is backing independence:
link to yesscotland.net
@muttley79 So far there has been a trickle of Labour wallahs for YES. It may well become a flood.
By 2016 (UK general election year)…
Total current receipts will be £694 billion.
Total managed expenditure will be £755 billion.
$64 billion will have to be borrowed to make up the difference in just that one year. More will be borrowed in between though.
By then, net public sector debt will reach a staggering £1.6 Trillion, some 86% of GDP.
Since Scotland has a higher GDP, a lower GDP to debt ratio & a higher income to expenses ratio, we will be subsidizing this debt load from now & for years to come.
Without doubt, we have been, are & will be economically worse off together. Anyone who thinks that they are at risk by voting for independence needs to do two things …
1. Read George Osborne’s 2013 budget forecast (p.100 – p.106 at link to tinyurl.com)
2. Kick themselves when they realise the financial catastrophe we are about to face by remaining in the union.
@Reider O’Doom – couldn’t agree with you more. We’ll help to build a new Scotland.
I might just be on that plane with you from Spain. As soon as I’ve jumped the bonfire on San Juan I’ll be on my way.
In Spain we can already see the results of austerity plus taking effect, shops closed, increased begging on the streets, while unemployment rates drop but only because people don’t bother to register as there’s no dole money or subsistance to be had.
And the irony of Johann Lamont on today’s FMQ’s accusing Big Eck of repeating “lies” enough until they become true as she does just that very thing again and again.
She demands he names names – is she training with Ally McCoist now?
I see Anas is in mindless soundbite mode at the Westminster debate “that this House has considered Scotland’s place in the UK”. Who called this? Are we going to get any of the more ‘interesting’ MPs go off on one about chippy Jocks?
@Flower of Scotland.
Me too, not a dicky bird back yet.
Reider O’Doom
Inspirational stuff. This is why we will, must, win it.
You make me proud to be a Scot.
Lamont as usual keeping to her Paul Sinclair script
This time Paul Sinclair and the SLAB spin doctors trying to get Alex Salmond to name business supporters, which he actually cannot do, not because there are none, but because you cannot name someone unless they give specific authority to do so or their name is in the public domain.
Sinclair knows this
Labour can only name people like the BP’s Bob Dudley as Dudley’s statement was in the public domain
Basically Sinclair is crawling in the gutter along with the Daily Mail
Lamont just reads what she is given, but doesn’t actually comprehend what she is saying
Michael Moore, the Lib Dem former Scottish secretary, recalls promoting Scotland as a minister when he travelled abroad. If Scotland were to vote for independence, that would not happen, because Scotland and the rest of the UK would be in competition.
So there you have it. If Scotland were to be independent Michael Moore would not travel abroad to promote Scotland.
Jimmy Hood says he would not vote Yes even if it made Scotland a better place because he was born in a mine and people fought Thatcher and got completely screwed over and stuff….or something like that.
Ronnie, your suggestion at 11.18 , and I’m assuming it was well intentioned, is the last thing Wings needs to be involved in. It neither needs hotheads nor agent provocateurs acting in ways that could could give anyone an excuse to have the the site shut down. There are alternative ways of communicating with other contributors better suited than to use this website. You could aways set up a website of your own. You could call it Pings Over Scotland; if it does nothing else it might draw the flak
@Reider O’Doom
Well done mate, very brave! I am desperate to move hame myself but I need to find work before I can which does make it difficult…
@fergie35
Maybe I should look in Aberdeen- have been concentrating on the Central Belt to date!
@HandandShrimp
The words Johann Lamont and Plot seldom go together.
Has she no shame?, now hiding behind Mr Big Business, a US leader of a privatised company no less. If she could ever get the co-ordination right, she could be a face-palm champion.
Those who believed Labour had no more room to descend continue to be proved wrong each and every day.
Thing is the very well off really do not care, they will still be well off whichever way the vote goes. There are however some well off people who care about others not just how much their savings are worth, or their mini mansion.
I live in Scotland, an ex pat from Newcastle, people still look very perplexed when I express my horror at the idea of a no vote, they say, but you’re English! Grrrr….I have lived in my adopted country almost longer than I was in Newcastle, so it is very frustrating when people make assumptions and presume I want to keep this dysfunctional, unfair and totally unequal so called union, just because I am not originally Scottish! YES to an Independent, forward looking, civilised modern country starting on September 19th 2014!
O/T
I took delivery of 260 Yes newspapers for delivering in my area this weekend.
The front page talks about being £600/year better off under indy.
Can anyone point me to the figures this comes from please?
Just because I want to have the facts for when someone queries the headline figures at their front door.
Cheers
“that would not happen, because Scotland and the rest of the UK would be in competition.” So what do they call this nonsense union now as Cross Rail vomit another thousand million quid over London for their Bombadier trains. If you live near any of the new mega billion London Cross Rail stations, your property will have jumped in price tenfold although what that means to Bath or Aberdeen is not that evident. Well Scots oil’s paying for it too I suppose.
@jingly jangly. Same thing happened to me with the Wings car stickers from that kind man Ken. Thanks again Ken.
QT tonight has George and David Starkey Ye Gods!
Michael Sylvian has a lovely turn of phrase and has done a piece on all of the participants but I thought I would share one. I know Stu will enjoy the well turned phrases.
George Galloway (glassy-eyed dismality-bot)
Erm. What can you say? I mean, really. What is there you can possibly say?
The tragedy of Galloway isn’t that he’s a laughable, dead-eyed, foot-first shoutist who has all the tact of an irradiated water cannon and all the easy social grace of tertiary syphilis. It’s that sometimes, if you divorce the words being said from the barely human husk they’re being spoken from – a thing Starkey can’t do if you’re not white – then the things he says are often far more palatable than other MPs. Yet by making a spectacle of the left, he is poisoning the message he claims he wants popularise.
In truth, he only cares about his own popularity. And that’s why, second only to a dead-eyed, reanimated photocopy of Davros, Galloway most resembles Farage or BoJo in their personality-led assault on our ability to debate anything other than themselves. He presents himself as a meaningful political alternative, but all he is is an alternative to meaningful politics.
Did Lamont have another “wee things” moment today, or did she somehow manage to stick to the script and get through her weekly ordeal in one piece (just)?
“Job done Johann, now back in the box you go!”
Heedtracker @11.33 am
What has changed Aberdeen and the North East??, you must move in different circles from me, I live in the west end of town, having been back here for 7 years after being out of the country for 25 years, nobody I am acquainted with talks about house prices, its more likely to be rugby or AFC but more and more about the referendum.
There is still an amazing amount of ignorance around, last week my wife’s half English 21 year old niece, at Uni in Abz, studying Media and Communications??asked for contact details of Yes supporting blogs because she had only been able to find No supporting ones?? we gave her WOS plus five others as a starting point. helpmaboab
Westminster Labour politicians feart to visit their ain people in Perth.
And nae wonder, hidin behind JoLa’s tax blather.
An excuse of a party.
Dodecostanza I think most of what you are looking for is explained on page 4 of said paper and by the article in the FT. Good luck, finished my 326 last week in the snow.
Bob Holman is a man of genuine integrity, who has eschewed the leafy suburbs that an academic career could have taken him to, to live with the people.
Good guy and great to hear he is voting Yes
Great insight, Rev, and I think it’s very important for the I’m Alright Jocks who are currently comfortable enough not to want to rock the boat.
Me, though? I’m in Inverclyde, dominated by corrupt & incompetent weasels in the council and a buffoon of an MSP who tried to blame the SNP for the death of three home-schooled children, who was the ONLY MSP outside the Greens to vote *against* cheaper fuel proposals (Tesco’s monopoly on fuel in the area led to outrageous prices), and is generally one of the “answers to a question nobody asked” when indyref comes up on Twitter. I don’t need to look 4 years into the future to realise this shite has to stop, and it has to stop NOW.
a photo of someone gate-crashing a BT event here is Dundee
link to twitter.com
dodecostanza
The £600 figure is based on the difference between the tax take 9.9% of uk against the spend in Scotland 9.3% which works out at £600 per head.
In reality it will be more than this, as all taxes and incomes that are generated in Scotland are not necessary allocated to Scotland in the Gers figures. Additionally we wont have the same spend, as we wont be paying for Trident, Foreign Military bases, population share of UK courts and Prisons, and heaps of others costs which we are hit with like London Crossrail, HS2 etc.
So £600 per head is the minimum we will be better off as an Independent Nation.
@Taranaich
That should be on a T-shirt
This shite has to stop!
…..Vote Yes!…..
Heedtracker
A wee gem that one 😀 just, brilliant in the comments list.
Bookmarked.
@Mosstrooper,
Well done. I’m just waiting for another 100 copies to finish off my wee patch of the Iron Burgh.
Re the YES newspaper,page four explains it in full!
Just been thinking about the title of this piece and wondering about “possibles”
First thing that came to my mind…its a stretch I know, but, anyone think a little pressure may be being applied to Old Liz and her boy Charlie to step aside to allow Wills and Kate to step forward in a big pageantry of Togetherness or we far too far down the road for such shenanigans?
Please, no King Billy joke responses.
Scotland,s place in the UK discussion UK Parliament
just now
I will be back in Scotland in June after 3 years in Russia.
I will be taking a massive pay cut and leaving behind alot.
But i shall be bringing my fiance who i hope i can get registered to vote in time for my +1.
Thanks guys, I have only read the front page so far…will read page 4!
And re-read the FT article.
That was excellent Stu. It terrifies the wits out of me what will happen to my elderly parents who rely on the NHS for regular heart medication and check ups. They’ve voted labour all their lives and believe all the lies and propaganda they see and hear every day about Alex Salmond and what terrible things will happen if they vote Yes. I’ve had to stop badgering them about it as it does stress them and I’m afraid of consequences. They’re afraid, at their age, to step off that cliff and trust that they won’t fall into that big black hole they’re being brainwashed into believing is waiting for them. It makes me so angry that the press and tv are having ‘fun’ while playing with people’s lives. Are there no honest, upstanding people left in that industry any more? Where are they? Thank goodness for Wings and all the other excellent sites.
@Marcia 1.37, weil done that wummin,keep up the good work in Dundee Marcia.
If Scotland votes “no” I will leave the UK. I will make every effort to support my son if he chooses the same path. You are 100% right about what awaits us under WM rule.
Another one sided parliamentary ‘debate’ where failed Scottish tories sitting in English seats and talking of Scots folk who can’t vote in the independence referendum.
Move home,you can still register to vote you know.Even the speaker is a well known Scottish tory in an English seat lol.Democracy in inaction.
Going to the place where the pavements are covered in gold to represent Scotland’s interests. Naw! Not Johann…
link to archive.is
@ Taranaich.
I suspect I am one of those Scots who is sitting comfortably. Half decent job, wife with a good job, reasonably comfortable is probably a good description.
I, on the other hand, see no shortage of people in Scotland who are being ill-served by politicians at all levels. The poorest, as usual in this stinking Tory run cesspit of a country, suffer most. It will be little different under a Labour run UK because ideologically Labour and Tory are barely different these days and the only way to make a fundamental difference to Scotland is by re-establishing that border between the Solway and just north of the Tweed to full international boundary status.
My personal status might not change much with independence, but I want to see the status of those with the least improve as a direct result of it.
This must be ripe for a Caption Competition
link to scotsman.com
In Thailand teaching at the moment.
I’m coming back to Dundee, not sure where I can live or work, will do any work until I get on my feet TBH, but it’s not easy.
I lived in the West Midlands for about 15 years before moving to Thailand so it would be much easier for me to go back there first then move to Dundee when I find accommodation.
Any help would be awesome, but whatever happens I will not miss my nations most important decision for centuries. 🙂
Aberdeen isn’t against a Yes vote. It’s the same as everywhere else, many people as shown by the debate igniting around the Scotland, are now starting to engage and question things.
Not everyone is rolling in oil money, alot of people question the oil running out up here, but oddly enough, they aren’t worried about losing their jobs because of the oil running out.
Up here it’s all about our infrastructure being very poor for the supposed oil capital of europe. Most seem to think that indy will not change things, Aberdeen will still be the forgotten city….in favour of the central belt. I always point to Proportional Representation and the difference in voting systems…..which then leads me nicely onto the democratic deficit…
Some people just don’t get it though, Aberdeen v Glasgow resonates very strongly here. I agree with it to a certain extent, it mainly stem’s from football and the sectarian issues which blight the west coast.
Namely, no one up here gives a toss on whether you are catholic, protestant, muslim etc, we don’t understand the whole thing and we get angry when so much attention is foisted on it….reporting scotland is like reporting glasgow
The fact that Edinburgh/Glasgow have a fast link between them, the trams, the new bridge, investment on the clyde….whilst we are still waiting on the new bypass breaking ground, as well as a bigger airport and the dualling of the Aberdeen – Peterhead road to get this ‘energy’ corridor built.
It’s not happening anytime soon though and with the local labour council, aided by an ex tory, now independent councillor refusing Ian Wood’s (of Wood Group fame) offer of £80 million the apathy in this city towards politics is at an all time high.
The ONLY thing I am hoping for is a Yes vote, as I routinely cite that the FM and a couple of members of the cabinet are from constituencies up here, so they have our interests at heart, as well as investment up here never being higher (although not by much)
There are of course, issues outwith the control of the Scottish Gov when it comes to local councils, such as the Bypass decision being challenged by someone living in England and it being delayed long term due to this (Yes, believe it) and them turning down the massive money on offer.
With this proposal to give more powers and responsibility to councils, I am honestly planning on getting the fk out of this psuedo country if it’s a No vote.
Of course, more recently they have announced they are closing a Fire Control and Police office….which isn’t very helpful.
I just had a discussion with my new accountant. He is an extremely pleasant and affable guy. Born in Surrey, but with Scottish heritage. (Grandmother used too send him the Broons, and he has red hair and freckles)
He and his wife (no kids) have come to this side of the border for the ‘quality of life’
Sadly, and this is where it gets grim, his only source of News is the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday.
He rattles off all the old scare stories as gospel and fact, all the time repeating the mantra ‘but I have not looked into it yet’ and ‘anyway it’s not going to really affect me day-to-day’
The most worrying part is he genuinely thinks the Scottish ‘hate the English and vice versa’
Now, I have not directed him to WOS or other sources just yet. I will do. I will start him with Business for Scotland to begin with. Then if I can open a chink in his armour I will stuff a bucket of WOS acerbity through it. 🙂
Joking aside. This referendum is not going to be won on ‘right or wrong’. It’s not even going to be won on ‘a sound economic argument’. I doubt it is going to be won on ‘balancing the pros and cons’, ‘the state of the UK’, ‘UKIP and Tory coalition’, ‘Scottish Trident and EU preferences.’ or even by telling people they will be £600 better off.
This referendum will be one or lost on the information war. The rate of conversion due to getting the right information. It is transparency of facts versus propaganda, over time and availability of balanced news and information.
The NO camp don’t have to tell the truth or convince people on WOS… they only have to keep writing stories in the media, and people like my accountant will vote accordingly.
Now I might be able to convert him, but there are literally tens of thousands of people out there that will never be introduced to an online news source to rival mainstream media .
This referendum is in danger, not because of the facts, but because the dissemination of the facts is far too low and blocked by MSM.
If we don’t have a game changer soon. It is going to be too late.
Just wanted to say to all those that are coming back for the Scotland – well done….
Chin’s up – must be nearing the 50% mark now I reckon. Someone else posted this Reddit thread earlier, some nice comments and making me feel hopeful for a Yes: link to reddit.com
BTW. Just a thought.
I actually think we need to be highlighting the constitutional problems, corruption and lack of representation more. I also don’t think that these things should be touted as YES ammo quite so much.
Isn’t it much more effective for a hardened no voter to come across a poster highlighting that the Lords have been moaning about their dinners? Maybe these things can plant the seeds of thought.
link to independent.co.uk
@Ericmac
You are so right. Was very proud the other night when my daughter lambasted someone in our company who played the lazy “Och I dont really know much about it” card.
Before I had the chance to even mention Wings, my daughter said “I have no time for people who claim ignorance. There is all the information you need out there,right now. You!!, you have to go out and find it, its your duty”
Cue a friend mumbling apologies and promising to raise their interest levels forthwith.
@Jake1.17,did I say hothead,s, what I said is to gear up to combat, the negativity of imported mob,s of BTer,s, I have the greatest respect for the REV, and every Winger,and YES campainer,
I am old enough in the head (when it work,s) to remember 79 & the
40% rule, the dirty trick,s of the UK gov havent even started, I would hope we have more foresight that we had in 1979,& fight on ever level.
@Rev – appologies if this has already been noted, but my immediate thought on your breakthrough insight was that is is another example of the brilliant observation made by William Gibson who said “The future is here, it’s just not evenly distributed yet.”
Gibson is known the “noir prophet” of the cyberpunk subgenre. Maybe we could point the DM to him next time they want some real insight into cyberspace.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Wow! Bob Holman. One of the good guys. Get him on the campaign trail please!
@HandandShrimp
‘Jimmy Hood says he would not vote Yes even if it made Scotland a better place because he was born in a mine and people fought Thatcher and got completely screwed over and stuff….or something like that.’
That says it all about these unionist SLAB elected representatives.
@Calum Craig and Reider O’Doom
Total respect to you guys and your commitment to Scotland. I wish you both all the best in your endeavors and I hope we’ll all be raising a glass to Scotland the Free in September.
@desimond: That should be on a T-shirt
This shite has to stop!
…..Vote Yes!…..
😀
@Peter Macbeastie: I suspect I am one of those Scots who is sitting comfortably. Half decent job, wife with a good job, reasonably comfortable is probably a good description.
You distinguish yourself from those Scots who do sit comfortably, yet either do not or cannot see the dire situation many other Scots find themselves in. That’s the difference: you’re showing basic empathy and recognition that a system which has poverty & discrimination is not, in any way, “ok.”
@Ericmac: Joking aside. This referendum is not going to be won on ‘right or wrong’. It’s not even going to be won on ‘a sound economic argument’. I doubt it is going to be won on ‘balancing the pros and cons’, ‘the state of the UK’, ‘UKIP and Tory coalition’, ‘Scottish Trident and EU preferences.’ or even by telling people they will be £600 better off.
This referendum will be one or lost on the information war.
Absolutely. When it comes to the period where the major medias are effectively *enforced* to be impartial, a lot of people are going to look at the huge divergence in what the Beeb/STV/etc were saying before, and what they’re saying now. In addition, being mandated to give as much airtime to the Yes campaign as they do to No will allow the Yes side to get their arguments in, and most importantly, let them stick. If you think we’re seeing people flock to Yes DESPITE the MSM’s staunch Unionist leanings, imagine what it’ll be like if the MSM actually give them a fair chance to speak. And with the WoS bias exploding in their face, they’ll have to work overtime to prove that they’re genuinely unbiased, or risk severe consequences from the Electoral Commission.
Think about all the times a No has been allowed to rant on and on, and given only the merest of scrutiny. Think about how often the Yes side has been actively excluded from commenting on anything – and the few times they are, how often they’re given the hardball questions while the No gloats smugly. In the weeks leading up to the debate, they won’t have the excuse. No doubt they’ll still manage, through accident or design, to perpetuate their bias – but any changes they make MUST be in favour of the Yes side. And when voters are more informed, they’re more likely to vote Yes.
O/T and the FCA registration details that authorises the RBS to provide financial products: link to fsa.gov.uk
This also include their registered “names”, past fines and so on. All quite interesting.
It shows 36 St Andrews Sq as the Head office.
The ConDems cut taxes £20 a week on average, more for the wealthier.
They are trying to privatise the NHS. Private healthcare insurance costs £25 a week, more for families and more for the elderly. They intend to raise the tax threshold to £10K but many poorer people, students, pensioners etc live on less than 10K. – 7K and do not pay tax.
How can a deficit be paid off if they cut taxes?
The ConDems are ideologically driven nasty people.
Vote Yes for a fairer, more equal society.
RBS is 80% owned by Westminster. It doesn’t matter where it is registered, it is regulated/licensed by Westminster. If there were profits there would go to the UK Treasury.
@alexicon and Marker Post
Done and done.
As of today we have one more YES vote. 🙂
Hi guys, I live just south of Aberdeen and am an Aberdonian, rest assured there are plenty of people in Aberdeen voting YES, every day I convert a few more to the cause ( and so their partners as well )I did have a wee run in with a no campaigner who typified the no attitude. When I asked him why he was voting no, he swept his arm out the window of his 5 bedroom house and said ” because we have this “. He’s not indicative of the general population , only a certain chunk of it.My folks are both YES, my ( English ) wife is YES, my kids are YES my brother and probably his wife are YES, the word is out there and growing by the day. Keep up the good work Rev, I need a place to direct people too.
The AWPR is starting in October and the SNP Scottish gov have set monies aside for it. It’s a pity it couldn’t be started before September, but the objectors held it up for so long.
If you want to tell the AC clown councillors what you think about their plans e-mail ACC. There is a consultation, they want folk’s views. Go to the Website.
Vote Yes.
All Yes around here.
Just one No. A relative’s neighbour. Keep on putting Yes papers in their door. Just for devilmen!
I am gonnae write tae Alex Mugabe and ask him tae edit the ballot papers just a couple of wee changes the bits in brackets..Should Scotland be an independent country..Yes(Of course it fucking should) and No(are you a fucking moron)
Welcome Stephen.
Always good to hear a new voice. 🙂
@Hewitt83
I am coming back from New Zealand for the vote. Giving up a good job in a great country which i have lived in for over 4 years because I believe in an independent Scottish nation. It doesn’t matter where you are in are in the world, all Scots should be able to voice their opinion on matters of their country. I think living outside of it gives you a unique perspective which can only help benefit and stimulate the debate.
Living in NZ has certainly let me see how successful a nation of 4-5 million people can be. Although even here the greed of their largest city sucks up more than its share.
I left the UK just before the last general election because I saw what was coming. I didn’t see it getting this bad, but the writing was on the wall. I am happy to return now so that my voice can be heard and so I can work with everyone else in making Scotland the greatest nation on earth.