The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


As it is and when it was

Posted on September 04, 2021 by

Print Friendly

    872 to “As it is and when it was”

    1. shug says:

      Does 2023 indicate she wants a planned run in to a referendum (more organised than the last one) or is it a delaying tactic.

      A more fundimental question is, has she been compromised by the state. Were the stories I heard from unionists and police friends true or not.

      If she has been compromised, we will be presented with a plan for failure possibly 3 questions on the ballot (including devomax).

      The million dollar question is; has she been compromised??
      Was the Salmond affair just politics of who makes the decision or was the civil service involvement an indication of the compromise?

      We need and answer to the compromised question.

    2. A. Bruce says:

      Twathater@ 10:19

      You’re absolutely correct. The YES vote from 2014 was diluted with the incomers who skewed the vote in favour of NO. In no other nation could foreigners enter the country, live there for a year or two and get the privilege of a vote on a life changing nation’s future. I have lived abroad and would never consider that I had a right to take part in determining the course of a nation that I wasn’t a citizen of.

    3. Robert Graham says:

      o/t

      From the farcical to the hysterical The Machine continues to crush any and all rational thought

      A University in the USA has just prevented unvaccinated on line students from enrolling in the next semester starting shortly , The university in New Jersey , Rutgers is preventing any students that have not been vaccinated from participating in any of its courses.

      Even the most vehement backers of this serum and who unquestionably trust what they are being told unless they are comatose they must realise this has gone from a medical emergency and has morphed into some kind of Psychological operation meant to crush normal people’s will.

      These little tricks and trials are being tested in some countries and if they are accepted by the public then they are rolled out in other countries and so the boiling frog method works magically rumbles on slowly slowly bit by bit so as to gain acceptance and not cause to many questions to be asked and not cause panic,

      Remember everything done by governments ” IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD ” and anyone questioning their approach will be dealt with for the general publics good, Aye Fkn Right .

    4. James Che. says:

      Really the new spokes person for Alba, and rev stu, arrogant Andy and his ilk need to answer this question,

      Where the Scottish people bought in the sale of Scotland, after money exchanged hands under the premise of a mainly trade treaty against the Scottish natives will, actually that Scotland belonged to?

      Are the Scots still included in the sale from 1707.

      For a sale it was, money was received and payed by England but not to the native Scots whom said NO,

    5. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 11.23 pm

      It’s not a huge surprise you’re utterly confused given some of your output. I’ve no fixation on Stu or anyone else, it just so happens that in relation to this issue, what he originally posted (and what all the nativist tub thumpers have been studiously avoiding) continues to be relevant. The usual suspects continue to attack my position – although strangely they rarely admit it is also Stu Campbell’s position on the matter, and the “mainstream” view of the movement as a whole – but systematically fail to engage with the points raised.

      It’s hard not to be derogatory in response to some of the utter drivel being spouted. If folk don’t like it tough. I’m not pulling my punches about calling out regressive ethno-nationalists any more than Stu Campbell did in his original comments. If folk want to clutch their pearls and have a fainting fit, I can’t help them. Perhaps they could, you know…just stop being blood and soil nationalists?

      Given your fondness for alt-right politics I’ll give any advice you dispense – however “well meant” – all the credence it deserves. You appear to talk a good game, but like so many of your ideologically grubby regressive claque you come up empty when coming up with actual responses. I should probably have learned my lesson when you linked without a hunt of irony to a widely discredited neo-nazi documentary and advised us all to watch it because it had important things to say.

      I think we know what that says about you.

    6. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 10.25 pm

      It’s neither disingenuous or creating a false picture to state plain facts Dan. People are free to go back and check. Those supporting restricting the franchise are on record in BTL comments as advancing residency criteria which were for the most part much longer than 2 years (which is the ONLY period used in any post WW2 independence referendums, and even then only in a couple out of dozens of examples). Most nativists were pushing for 5 and more commonly 10 years.

      It’s interesting that you find honest discourse “twisted and tireless”. I’m not the one twisting facts Dan, or avoiding the issues. I’ll keep doing so until people face facts. One might almost suspect the reason you keep deflecting is that you have no real answers, or inwardly ashamed of your regressive stance. We can but hope.

      It’s not “reasonable people” who are calling me out, it is – as I already stated – people I no longer regard as even being on the same side as me if they are pushing these kind of policies. Hard as you and others who support these regressive policies might find it, there are many who agree with me and Stu Campbell.

      As for your swipe about “what have you ever done for indy”, please give it a rest. People are free to pursue their interests in whatever ways they wish. For what it’s worth, anyone pushing nativist policies – however many pavement miles they’ve pounded or leaflets they’ve delivered – is no friend of indy in my view, or at least not leading to the type of Scotland I’d want to see.

    7. James Che. says:

      Who wants to join andy’s version of the Scotland he wants for us natives.

    8. Andy Ellis says:

      @Grouse Beater 12.42 am & 12.59 am

      “Nativists? Sheesh!”

      So tell us Gareth, what are we to call those pushing for what we regard as the deeply regressive franchise change line? “Nativist” seems a pretty accurate descriptor for those who want to limit voting rights to “native born” Scots. Those pushing for it – and those who have fallen for disingenuous and insulting “Scotland as colony” narrative – ought at least to have the courage of their convictions.

      Strange that the small minority of fringe cranks fluffing this line have happily been castigating me over the past few months, but tend not to criticise Stu Campbell for using the terms “ethno nationalist” and “blood and soil”. Perhaps that’s just indicative of their lack of courage, as well as their lack of a coherent argument though?

      As for you later contention that those who disagree with the regressive nativist prospectus are somehow “inculcated with a sense of guilt” or think we regard what you term “usurpers” as our betters, I’m sure that will come as news to all those you so casually traduce. Do you honestly think I, or Stuart Campbell, or the others who have posted here in the same terms think we have “betters” amongst New Scots, or that we suffer from your posited sense of colonial guilt?

      What insulting nonsense. We don’t even accept the basis of the phoney colonialist schtick, still less suffer from any sense of guilt about it.

      To say I was disappointed in you in particular in relation to this Gareth would be an understatement, particularly given your earlier personal and unfounded attack on me, and your attempt to draw Stu Campbell in to it. I had always thought you a man of honour. It pains me to see that I was wrong. I won’t be interacting with you again: someone who has made an error, been called out for it and asked for an apology but studiously avoided doing so isn’t someone I feel any need to communicate with further.

    9. J.o.e says:

      Andy you misunderstand me.

      I once found your borderline insanity annoying but last night I honestly found myself at the stage of sympathy for someone who is clearly not quite right.

      Its not just your way of thinking.

      I am a hostile, insulting and often arrogant prick. You make me seem like a shy little girl in comparison. The fact you cannot manage enough self reflection to realise that for every argument you make you detract from it with displays of utter blanket-insulting obnoxiousness has to be the basis of some kind of disorder.

      And yes, bringing up ‘Rev Stu says’ in nearly every post is another sign of a lack of self awareness. It is fucking cringeworthy.

      Im not up for reading much from you. Im happy you are on the other side of most issues and i’ll leave it mostly at that.

    10. Andy Ellis says:

      @Alf Baird 10.31 pm

      It shows the poverty of your discourse if the only comeback you have is that because I (and indeed the vast majority of the movement and Scots in general from what I’ve seen) reject your “Scotland and colony” fantasy, I must ipso facto be aligned with “the oppressor”.

      One side of this debate IS playing in to the hands of the British nationalists and unionists, but it’s not the mainstream civic nationalists who support using the same franchise as in 2014 Alf. The ones playing into the hands of our foes are the rag tag assemblage of politically regressive cranks, fringe nutters and alt-right anti-immigrant folks and sadly some of their shills posting BTL here who really ought to know better.

    11. James Che. says:

      The man whom weaponises stu Campbell and Alba against some of the original Scottish people.

      Wow.

    12. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 1.22 pm

      I sense we will both be happier for it. As noted earlier, there are quite a few on here I’d happily cross the street to avoid. Given your views Joe, I wouldn’t take anything you said at face value, least of all your laughable attempts at psychoanalysis.

    13. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 1.15 pm

      “Who wants to join andy’s version of the Scotland he wants for us natives.”

      Many more than want to join James’ vision of the Scotland he wants.

      Remember James, the 2014 franchise is the default and accepted position of the Yes movement. There’s no evidence of any great appetite for changing it, either from any pro-indy party or from Scottish voters.

      It’s not me who is in the minority of the whole movement here, whatever the nativists posting BTL here think from their wee bubble.

    14. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 1.28 pm

      “The man whom weaponises stu Campbell and Alba against some of the original Scottish people.

      Wow.”

      The man who unselfconsciously uses the term “the original Scottish people” without realising he sounds like a pound shop Faragist.

      Wow.

    15. Geoff Anderson says:

      We are in the current mess because of people like Andy Ellis.
      Be nice, be kind, be assured you will soon be assimilated like Wales as part of England with a guaranteed Unionist/ England majority.
      Andy would obviously welcome Tibet having a vote on Independence which included all the Chinese incomers in that vote.

      The Imperial invader is quite happy to award a “fair vote” when he has moved in sufficient people to guarantee the vote.

      Andy would be the polite gentleman as the mugger took his wallet.

    16. J.o.e says:

      It was only 2 paragraphs to I read it:

      ‘rag tag assemblage of politically regressive cranks, fringe nutters and alt-right anti-immigrant folks and sadly some of their shills posting BTL here who really ought to know better.’

      If so irrelevant and fringe why is he getting his pink cotton panties in a twist on a daily basis, throwing everything including the kitchen sink (and Mr Campbell) at these illogical, highly minority, totally not the majority, idiots and trolls?

    17. Ron Maclean says:

      The colonisation argument was avoided during indyref1 and since. Perhaps because it’s too embarrassing for our insipid representatives to admit publicly that they’ve accepted vassal status on our behalf for over three hundred years. They seem happy to enjoy comfortable lifestyles in the service of their colonial masters in exchange for daily humiliation and silence.

      The UN does not recognise Scotland as a colony. That does not mean that Scotland does not exhibit some or all of the characteristics of a colonised nation. Unsupported arguments from patronising, abusive commenters won’t change that.

    18. Andy Ellis says:

      @Geoff 1.45 pm

      No Geoff, Andy supports Tibetan independence. Scotland =/= Tibet. Tibet is under occupation and does not have the options Scotland does. No matter how often the hard of thinking who parrot the “Scotland is a colony” line, it becomes no more convincing, quite apart from being insulting to those people’s who are subject to colonial oppression.

      A “demos” where > 80% of the population are native born which can’t fashion a 50% + 1 majority for independence without disenfranchising a large number of “New Scots” doesn’t deserved to be an independent nation state. Civic nationalism was supposed to be our USP as a movement, not a useful fig leaf to be abandoned for old school ethno nationalism when we couldn’t win the argument.

    19. J.o.e says:

      There’s no such thing as New Scots. You are either Scots or not.

      It’s as based in reality as trans-woman or trans-man.

    20. Ron Maclean says:

      Today on talkingupscotlandtwo.com ‘Relocating Trident: Hobson’s Choice’ By Alasdair Galloway.

    21. Lochside says:

      Andy Ellis..ex Lancaster Uni; ex St. Andrews Uni; ex? Babcock employee, you know the BRITISH SECURITY AND DEFENCE company.
      Maybe a clue to where your allegiances really are big mouth?
      ’77’ ring a bell? Retired early Andy or paid by the hour to be an arsehole on here?

      Yeah, the Gammon from the south. A bogus Scot Nat, who trolls only Scot Nat ‘nativists’. What are you Andy?… I’ll tell you.. a Britnat troll sent here to disrupt and abuse contributors on what was a Independence site.

      You display your English nativist tendencies every time you open your bigoted Gammon mouth. Got the rest of the family up here yet Andy? you fucken fraud.

      See ya at the next Wings gettogether and you can tell me and the rest that we are ‘no marks’. You are good at insulting people on ‘the spectrum’ like you did to a previous long term contributor.

      You are a shitebag and you hide behind the REV as your comfort blanket. BTW the REV quoted 4 x million English wanted to move here in a poll post Brexit. No chance of swamping us nativists then is there?

    22. Since when did this become the Andy Ellis blog?

    23. James Che. says:

      Since Andy Ellis decided to take control of Rev thinking, Alba’s leadership, and down tread the native of Scotland.

    24. Andy Ellis says:

      @Lochside 2.24 pm

      You seem nice.*

      *like a typical barely verbal nativist no mark.

      Why would I be interested in interacting with a sweary delusional individual who accuses me of being a yoon because he lacks the wit to present any counter arguments? Folk like you are a big part of why the movement is at a standstill. I mean, Cameron Brodie might have been on the spectrum, and we’re all better off for Stu having banned him, but at least he could string a sentence together rather than just engage in vulgar abuse like you.

    25. Andy Ellis says:

      @Margaret 2.31pm

      Since the rest of the adults exited stage right and nutter fringe nativists, anti vaxxers and climate change deniers crawled from under their rocks.

      Nothing stopping you and others posting as much as you like.

      With luck you’re not a moon howler?

    26. Dan says:

      M’kay, hands up who went and reprogrammed the MurphyBot 900.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/moodievision-the-murphybot-900/

    27. Dan says:

      Sigh…
      I don’t recall hearing this chant at all those Indy marches.

      What do we want?
      PRONOUS not POWER!
      When do we want them?
      NOW!

      https://twitter.com/thecommongreen/status/1435600853403148293

    28. Mac says:

      Margaret Eleftheriou says:
      Since when did this become the Andy Ellis blog?

      60 or so posts on this thread alone.

    29. Republicofscotland says:

      So the GRA bill will definitely be introduced within the first year of the new parliament, Sturgeon is committed on doing so. It also looks like the not proven verdict, which is not used outside Scotland, is being done so address the low conviction rates on sexual assaults, rather than obtain convictions on merit and evidence, it now appears that not proven verdicts, of which there’s a factor of doubt in the person guilt, will be replaced with a straight guilty or not guilty. the former being the more likely to get the low conviction rates on sexual assault up.

      Whether you like or dislike Scotland’s unique not proven verdict, should it be removed to obtain higher convictions because this Scottish government wants to see higher convictions of a certain crimes, that is the question.

      Sturgeon has also said that the GRA bill will NOT remove any of the legal protections that women currently have, isn’t that’s what’s happening right now, and won’t the GRA just cement that position.

      Infact Sturgeon did nothing when women in her own party such as Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine were abused, and threatened online by SNP party members, and SNP personnel.

      Also in Sturgeon’s Key Legislative Programme announced recently she’s pledged £12 million pounds to end homelessness, in Glasgow alone the SNP ran city council closed many of the homeless hostels, which led to a big rise in rough sleeping and inturn a rise in deaths through people sleeping on the streets, why should we believe her now, when her party exacerbated homelessness in Scotland.

    30. sarah says:

      O/T: Thank you, Rev, for providing the platform, and numerous facts, on Craig Murray’s position as sole civil prisoner, being subjected to many inhumane indignities.

      I used this information to write to The National asking them to take up the cause of pushing Keith Brown into releasing Craig on compassionate grounds, as Kenny MacAskill did for el-Megrahi.

      My letter included the detail that Craig did NOT name anyone nor otherwise identify them, whereas a press journalist did tweet a name but all he had to do was apologise. My letter also listed the inhuman indignities – oximeter taken away, no books or stamps allowed, prison uniform imposed when wife and children visit, confined to his cell for over 22 hours – but the article didn’t include all that.

      Today an article by Greg Russell has been printed quoting from my letter. I hope that it will inspire many people to email Keith Brown at cabsecjustice [at] gov [dot] scot, and to their MSP/MP, to press this appeal.

      If/when your MSP/MP replies saying the Scottish Government can’t interfere then reply pointing out if Kenny MacAskill did, so can Keith Brown.

    31. Scott says:

      “I too am sick of scrolling past *redacted* endless impenetrable and irrelevant comments on Wings Over Scotland. They are, at best, of no interest to most followers of WOS, and at worst, annoying and off-putting to the point that people are going to stop reading the blog. I am sure most people are reluctant to complain or become involved in ad hominem arguments, but when they do, Stuart Campbell refuses to either take sides or take action against the source of the problem. Surely there is no equivalence between someone who is disrupting the site with multitudes of spam comments, and those who are complaining about the serial spammer and demanding that action be taken?”

      – Andy Ellis, 15/12/20 11:38am [www.scots-republic.livejournal.com]

      Aye Andy, yer writing isn’t any better on your own webshite…keep kissing that mirror though.

    32. Republicofscotland says:

      The Tories are looking at introducing voter ID laws, to combat what many politicians are saying doesn’t exist, voter fraud, it will cost around £120 million pounds, and it will disenfanchise many folk who won’t get one possibly because they can’t be bothered, or refuse to get one because it will feel authoritiarian.

      Why are the Tories looking at this idea, well the folk most likely to be disenfranchised are folk who wouldn’t vote Tory, for the people would also be more likely to come from the poorer sections of society.

      This system or one similar to it is already up and running in the USA where millions of American’s are disenfranchised because they don’t have voter ID’s.

    33. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 3.30 pm

      If you can’t see the difference between what CBB used to post and the situation now, I don’t really know what to say to you? In comparison with then the few posts now get a few hundred comments over several days: back in the bad old days of CBB’s spamming it got a similar number or more per day. You may not be interested in what’s being discussed but at least they are about topics folk are interested in, and interacting with, which could hardly be said of CBB’s contributions.

      A number of contributors have made multiple contributions on this thread: I’m not making any apology for it. I was responding for the most part to comments directed at me or in response to earlier posts particularly by J.o.e and James Che and a few others. The number of posts tends to reflect that.

      As noted in the comment you quote Stu Campbell has a fairly light touch approach to barneys BTL. Doubtless if he feels it has gone too far or is irritated by it he will take action, which is fair enough – his site, his rules. So far it just looks like a few zoomers whingeing.

      Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to read contributions you’re not interested in. Feel free to interject with riveting comments on your own on different topics dear to your own heart. In the meantime, stop trying to tone police other people’s contributions.

      As for your criticism of my writing style, you can’t please all of the people all of the time. Doubtless yours is much superior. I’m sure we’re all in for a treat when you share your pearls of wisdom.

    34. Dan says:

      @ ROS at 3.38pm

      Aye, and then there was this electronic vote counting contract awarded by the Scottish Government Administrators of Devolved Powers to Idox starting next year…

      https://archive.is/oe8kl

    35. Ottomanboi says:

      Whether Scotland is a colony is a matter of subjective perspective. Whether Scotland is a nation is an objective matter. The criteria for nationhood are quite specific. Scotland fulfils the geographic, cultural, historic and societal requirements which not all independent states with UN seats actually possess.
      If you consider your country to be a nation going to the UN is a waste of time. It is an organization concerned only with the maintenance of the status quo. It has consistently failed to support the political rights of minorities and subject peoples. Tibetans, Uyghurs, Assyrians, Yezidis, Kashmiris, Maoris, North & South American and Australian autochthonous peoples are a representative example of the UN’s calculated indifference or susceptibility to be «pressurized» by the powerful.
      This is a matter where you are on your own.
      If Scots nats are serious stop playing the whinging Pom and get on with it!

    36. Republicofscotland says:

      Just why do voter who vote for a certain party/individual on something that they pledge in their party’s manifesto, only to later see that pledge broken, would they get away with such a thing in any other walk of like career wise.

      Of late, the UK Tory government has broken a key pledge in its manifesto not to raise National Insurance. Its also come to light that the same Tory government has scrapped the Triple Lock on pensions. The average UK worker receives around a quarter (28%) of the average working wage when they retire, whereas in Austria and Luxembourg that figure is (90%) of the average working wage.

      UK pensioner poverty rose to a fifteen-year high with 2.1 million pensioners now living in poverty after housing costs, a increase of over 200,000 since 2018/19.

      Surely an independent Scotland could do better.

    37. Pixywine says:

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/x01gTHwQGJHT/
      Hello Brigadoon. This is reality calling.

    38. Pixywine says:

      Andy Ellis has the same nuisance power as CBB.

    39. Pixywine says:

      Andy Brody? Where do I collect my Mars bar.

    40. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @3.56pm.

      Yes Dan ex-Tory minister Peter Lilley has been with IDOX for fourteen years, and there has been some discrepancies in that time.

      However the Scottish government claims it has no part in hiiring IDOX.

      “After one concerned person asked about the use of “Peter Lilley’s firm”, the Scottish Government responded:”

      “The awarding of contracts to Idox, or other commercial companies, was a matter for individual counting officers to decide. The Scottish Government was not involved in this process.”

      https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Idox_Elections

    41. Republicofscotland says:

      Justice secretary Keith Brown has been urged to free Craig Murray on compassionate grounds, the mechanism is there as Kenny MacAskill freed a ill Abdel-baset al-Megrahi in a similar fashion.

      Murray is the only person to be imprisoned on jigsaw identification laws (via contempt of court), his health is so poor that the judge rued out community service, his condition has been further exacerbated by being locked up twenty-two hours day. Murray is believed the only civil prisoner in Scotland right now, and he’s the the first journalist in seventy-years to be imprisoned for reporting on a court case.

      Justice secretary Keith Brown must take action now to free Murray.

    42. Breeks says:

      “ …. The maritime law tribunal of the United Nations has ruled that Britain has no sovereignty over the Chagos Islands. It criticised London for its failure to hand the territory back to Mauritius.”

      I didn’t see any Referendum deciding this, I didn’t see any discussion of a Referendum, nor any “Nativist” arguments about whether American Airman stationed on the Chagos Island’s, (nor for that matter Islanders banished from their homes and living in exile), should or should not be included in the voting franchise.

      Scotland’s Sovereignty is a binary condition dictated by law, not democracy, and not the voting franchise.

      Declare to the World that Scotland’s 1320 Declaration of Arbroath was an affirmation of Sovereignty which secured the contemporary equivalent of International Recognition in 1328, when recognised by the Pope and ratified by the Treaty of Edinburgh / Northampton whereby, England recognised the Nation of Scotland and rescinded any and all claim over Scotland in perpetuity.

      These three documents, the Declaration of Arbroath, the Papal bull which recognised it, and the Treaty Edinburgh / Northampton signed by the Dowager Queen of England, all physically still exist, and essentially provide the Modern Nation of Scotland with a Constitutional “Birth Certificate” signed in triplicate.

      It is actually farcical even to consider putting this lawful status of Sovereignty to any kind of a vote. Scotland IS sovereign, and anyone who denies that should be denounced as a fraud, a deceiver, or an imbecile. In Sturgeon’s case, it’s probably all three.

      It is arguable that the Treaty of Union could not properly survive the resurrection of Scotland’s Sovereign legitimacy, but even if it did cling on to life by a merest thread, (or sliver of parchment), the sovereign people of Scotland could elect to end the Treaty of Union (or give it a similar stay of execution like 2014 revisited), and Westminster would have no power whatsoever to interfere, and every “notion” of reserved powers held by Westminster should properly be laughed out of court and denounced as unconstitutional throughout the Sovereign realm of Scotland.

      Do you finally begin to grasp the fact that a Holyrood assembly which swears fealty to Westminster and abides by it’s small ‘c’ constitution written as the 1998 Scotland Act, is actually a wholly unconstitutional aberration, and Section 30 of the Scotland Act represents nothing but Colonial opportunism, where the Palace of Westminster seeks to encroach over Scotland’s Nation status and sovereignty?

    43. Fishy Wullie says:

      Andy Ellis is the man who once said that if the franchise was changed to native born Scots not only would he not vote for independence but would actively campaign against it

      He’s a unionist there’s no other way to intemperate that

    44. Breeks says:

      Nativists? Ha! Ha! Ha! I’m so “nativist” I wouldn’t even let the Natives have a vote.

    45. sarah says:

      @ Republic of Scotland at 4.19: “Keith Brown must act now to free Craig Murray”.

      I’m sure Keith would like to receive hundreds of emails on this subject at cabsecjustice [at] gov [dot] scot!!

    46. Republicofscotland says:

      The Auditor General For Scotland ha said Scotland remains divided by inequalities in wealth, education health and opportunity ten years after a landmark report from Dr Campbell Christie.

      Yet the current SNP governments priorities appear to be the GRA bill and scrapping the not proven verdict to secure more convictions on sexual assaults.

    47. Ottomanboi says:

      From the National.
      «NIcola Sturgeon has warned of the possibility of taking “targeted and proportionate” action to stem the spread of Covid as cases continue to surge»
      Scottish politics a one woman band?
      Is there no one prepared to stand up to this covid scare nonsense and its self-gratifying purveyors?
      https://off-guardian.org/2021/09/07/letter-to-a-covidian-a-time-travel-experiment/
      Does she get off on this? All those men salivating for the deathly, dreary dominatrix?

    48. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile under Humza Yousaf’s guidance as Health secretary, August saw a record low (74.2%) of people being seen at A&E in Scotland within the four hour allotment time.

      Yousaf must surely be the anti-Midas, every post he serves in public services turns to dust.

    49. Dan says:

      @ ROS

      Cheers for the correction re. awarding contract comment. I posted in a hurry as was on phone and still melting from being in the sunshine lifting a hundred onions from the veg bed…

      On contract awarding subject, I recall looking at that years back and it seemed to be groups of local authorities procuring the contracts.
      Interesting reading on possible electoral activity in 2016 and 2017 from this extracted section in the first archived link. Why would that be and in relation to what?

      II.2.1)Total quantity or scope:
      During the period of the contract the Purchaser expects to require services for the following elections:
      2013 – Currently there are no planned elections, however this may be subject to change
      2014 – European Parliamentary Election, possible Referendum
      2015 – UK Parliamentary Election
      Possible activity in 2016 and 2017, subject to the Purchaser agreeing an extension:
      2016 – Scottish Parliamentary Election
      2017 – Local Government Elections (this is subject to any other negotiated contracts agreed by Scottish Government or Election Management Board for Scotland, with any Scottish Government or Election Management Board for Scotland contract taking precedence over this contract for the provision of electoral services or part thereof for Local Government Elections)
      Estimated value excluding VAT:
      Range: between 500 000 and 800 000 GBP

      https://archive.is/DDwtF

      https://archive.is/GVttY

    50. Dan says:

      Like they knew the EU vote was coming…

    51. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 September, 2021 at 2:48 pm
      @Margaret 2.31pm

      Nothing stopping you and others posting as much as you like.

      With luck you’re not a moon howler?

      Reply
      That isn’t true Andy.

      Consideration for others would stop folk posting as much as they like.

    52. Scott says:

      Dan says:
      8 September, 2021 at 5:05 pm

      Like they knew the EU vote was coming…

      The possible activity refers to the planned elections as stated below…?

    53. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to read contributions you’re not interested in

      Reply

      How do you know if you are or are not interested in contributions unless you read them?

      It’s not as if you give your posts a title/subject.

      ie. Reply to Joe re Franchise No 146.

    54. Ebok says:

      J.o.e @10.20am
      “You made a mistake though – the people in our government are controlled. They are not doing this by themselves and from their own initiative.”

      I suppose the sceptics will say that this is straying into conspiracy theory territory, but to me it’s a no brainer that politicians are merely vassals following orders.
      I’ve suggested in the past that those who have benefitted from and control the trillions amassed during the Brit Empire period took hegemony to a new level after the Russian revolution, for fear of losing their incalculable wealth.
      It is inconceivable that these power players do not infiltrate ALL groups of potential influence, and brutally destroy or assume control of any that may cause problems. The Labour Party, SNP, Civic Institutions, and MSM are obvious examples.

      It may have happened for other reasons, but look what has happened since, say, the 1980’s: –
      the Falklands, destruction of the unions, industry decimated, poll tax, mass unemployment, political collaboration with unelected EU hierarchy, abandoning clause 4, full blown neo liberalism, gold standard abandoned, Iraq, bankers bail out, austerity, mass immigration, Libya/Syria/Afghanistan, unashamedly suborned MSM, indoctrination in schools, freefall in education standards, spiralling drug deaths, record levels of child poverty, GRA, HCB, amoral government, covid 19, fabiani stitch-up, suppressing free speech, redact, redact, redact, and so much more.

      All this could not possibly happen in a system of fair and transparent government in one of the wealthiest countries in the world without massive influence being brought to bear by unelected interests. And rather than have a rapport with the public, we are inundated with propaganda from media and politicians in the form of recurring cliches as a cover for concealing the direction of travel
      These of course include, ‘Lessons will be learned’, ‘There’s work to be done’, ‘The People of Scotland’, ‘We’re all in this together’, ‘We celebrate multiculturalism’ and countless more meaningless slogans recited word for word by the party faithful.

      What I cannot do, and cannot see from these pages, is find a way out. There is no telling how far we have yet to fall in this bottomless, self-indulgent pit. We need solutions, and fast, but take care not to place the burden on too few shoulders, or on a fledgling political party.
      If there is one thing I want to hear from Greenock this weekend, it is a plan for the independence movement to make every citizen aware that there is a dangerous level of iniquity preying over our country, and to call out very vociferously those responsible.
      Scotland must waken up and recognise that Independence, no matter what difficulties that may unfold, cannot come quickly enough, and it is the only platform on which to build a just society.

    55. Dan says:

      @ Scott

      Could well be I suppose.
      This procurement process presumably had to be tendered as per EU rules? If so I wonder how that process is dealt when there are snap General Elections outwith Fixed Term Parliament Act.

    56. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 4.35pm Exactly Breeks, why is it then that we don’t have senior members of the legal profession challenging this obvious anomaly
      I know why Sturgeon and HER SNP have assiduously avoided it apart from making vague claims that it could be looked at but never made any attempt to move forward on it

      Why if this is a better avenue to pursue freeing our statehood from the union has Joanna Cherry not moved to ALBA and in conjunction with Alex Salmond and the rest of the legal professionals within and without ALBA focused on this glaring usurpation of our sovereignty

      Why when it is an accepted FACT and supported by documentary evidence by WM and HR that Scots are sovereign that we have to ask ANYONE’S permission to hold ANY referendum on any subject , those are not the actions of ANY sovereign people and they are not the actions that our representatives of those sovereign people should be accepting

      We KNOW by her actions that Sturgeon is either one of them or has been compromised , but what of the other indy supporting parties , why are they not openly shouting this from the rooftops , why are they not EXPOSING this deliberate subservience to WM when it is not legal and not required , what are they waiting for

      I thank Alex Salmond for returning to the fray and giving us hope prior to the May election but the assumption that Sturgeon had integrity or honesty was badly misjudged, since then there has been NOTHING , I would hope ALBA members at their conference will INSIST that the gloves come off , that the attacks and exposure that Sturgeon is and has been lying will be uppermost in their publicity, that they emphasise that Sturgeon and her green allies have PRIORITISED fraudulent gender issues rather than the health , welfare and education of our youngest citizens

    57. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ebok (5.27) –

      Well said.

      FWIW, I don’t expect to see anything like a ‘just society’ in my lifetime (I’m 58).

      No institutions seem trustworthy because they are all in thrall to The State/Crown, Big Finance, or some combination. Anyone who achieves prominence in politics is usually blackmail material before they’re even allowed to get started. Charities are all corrupt cash funnels for redundant aristocrats and retired ‘National Treasure’ entertainers/celebrities. Universities can only survive by agreeing to teach gibberish. No political party seems worth being a member of because they are always infiltrated and wrecked…

      I’m sure others could add to the list.

      If it does ever change for the better, it’ll be because some of the guilty are prosecuted and do some serious porridge. But wait, oh, that’s right, the justice system itself is bought and paid for, and so we go round, again and again…

      Who knows?! Perhaps Prince Andrew is a case in point – functioning as a gauge may well be the only truly useful thing he’s ever done in his life. If he stands trial *AND* gets the slammer, perhaps, just perhaps, there is hope.

      😉

    58. Captain Yossarian says:

      “unashamedly suborned MSM, indoctrination in schools, freefall in education standards, spiralling drug deaths, record levels of child poverty, GRA, HCB, amoral government, covid 19, fabiani stitch-up, suppressing free speech, redact, redact, redact, and so much more.” This hasn’t happened in the last 40-years, it has happened in the last 10 years.

      If Holyrood could be trusted, then it would be given adequate powers to hold the administration properly to account. But, it is not trusted and the current example is the fact that the increased NHS funding will be paid directly from Westminster to the NHS boards in Scotland. It will not go via the Scottish Government because it just gets siphoned off if it gets done that way.

    59. I don’t post here very often because I have important issues to deal with outside the UK; a)I ask questions about Craig Murray, Scotland’s shamefully imprisoned political prisoner; b) because my questions are answered promptly and helpfully.

      I don’t have time to read what are for me irrelevant posts, within my time and geographically constrained personal situation.

    60. James Che. says:

      See Andy is selective in his responses,

      Earlier today I asked wether the Scots were sold WITH THEIR Country of Scotland when the money financial recompense was made to a few men whom did not own the kingdom Scotland as sovereignty had been handed to the Scottish people by the king before 1707.

      The native population were not asked and when it was discovered at a later date the Scots said NO to the sale they named the 1707 treaty of the union,
      The Scots rebelled, and England sent an army up to the borders to squash the objection by use of force.

      Based On those facts, were and are the Scots still included as bill of sale dating from 1707 imposter Treaty, named the treaty of the union?

    61. Andy Ellis says:

      @ James Che 6.28 pm

      I may have missed the odd response. You honestly can’t win here with some of you roasters: some of them moan about folk posting too much, other moan you don’t respond to their every post. FWIW, the nutter that complained I’d posted too much on this thread, I hardly think the number over the curse of 4 days is excessive, particularly as they were overwhelmingly responding to (mostly) posts from yourself James or J.o.e and a few others.

      A number of other other folk posted similar numbers, like Ruby, pixywine and others. Interestingly they get a free pass.

      I’m not interested in your obsession with the Treaties of Union and what happened 300 years ago. It isn’t germane to what we’re discussing now. 18th century Scotland wasn’t a democracy. If your posts are worth responding to, I will, if not…then not, okay?

    62. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.27 pm

      Why am I particularly required to title my posts? Nobody else does so. On this thread they’ve mostly been direct responses to the person’s post at the time I put at the start, as I’ve done here. Not sure what your issue is?

      Scanning back you’ve posted a similar number of posts to me on this thread: I didn’t see you taking your advice.

    63. Sensibledave says:

      Breeks 4.35

      Sorry mate, I do admire your words, your sentiments and your passion – but “the people of Scotland” (I.e the majority thereof), don’t agree with you. When asked, they repeatedly indicate they (the majority) prefer to stay in the Union.

      Only when a majority indicate they want independence will indyref2 happen (ie when the Scottish government is confident,mand when Westminster have no arguments left).

      Instead of venting in this echo chamber – folk need to get out and change minds. At the moment, support for the “cause” is in the minority. Change that.

    64. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sensibledave 6.56 pm

      It isn’t necessarily true that when a majority indicate they want independence, #indyref2 will “magically” happen is it? It wouldn’t matter if the current polls showed a consistent 60% or 70% in favour if Westminster just continues to say no. BoJo and the British nationalist establishment don’t have to justify their refusal, because there are at present no consequences of them doing so. SNP MPs insisting it’s a democratic outrage, or Nicola cultists like Wishart insisting Westminster will just give in are delusional.

      Either we have to put the matter beyond legal doubt, or if we can’t do that change tack to plebiscitary elections.

      We won’t build a majority in the short to medium term without a campaign to galvanise support, and given the SNP’s intensely relaxed attitude to actually progressing the cause, nowt much is likely to change until 2026 anyway is it?

    65. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 7:07 pm

      …Either we have to put the matter beyond legal doubt, or if we can’t do that change tack to plebiscitary elections.

      Just for clarity presumably these would have to be the Scottish Parliament Elections seeing as they are the only ones that utilise the voter franchise you endorse?

    66. Sensibledave says:

      Andy Ellis

      I believe you are wrong on that.

      It is also, I would suggest, an excuse.

      Build the majority – then you have morality and democracy on your side. Until then, you literally have no mandate and cannot claim to speak on behalf of “the people of Scotland”. Arguably, it might be said that you are trying to impose your will on the majority by all and any means – other than democracy. Not a good look.

    67. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 September, 2021 at 6:52 pm
      @Ruby 5.27 pm

      Why am I particularly required to title my posts?

      Reply

      Sigh!

      Because you are the one saying

      ‘Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to read contributions you’re not interested in”

      My question was how do people know what posts are about without reading them?

      Perhaps you could go back and read my post alternatively you could just ‘let it go’.

      I know that is a big ask for you this ‘ letting it go’ malarky.

    68. wee monkey says:

      From that arch toaree Murdo what’s his name…

      “This afternoon in the PfG debate
      @ScotParl
      , I raised the concerns of many women who have lobbied me about GRA reform, to have

      @NicolaSturgeon

      shouting at me ‘shame on you’ from her seat.

      Shocking dismissal of those women with a contrary view. Respectful debate?
      @ForwomenScot
      5:33 PM · Sep 8, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

      He has a point.

      If this is the state of sturgeons mind then she needs sectioning.

    69. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 7.07 pm

      I think if #indyref2 can’t be achieved due to britnat veto or legal wrangling not being sorted out, the movement as a whole should simply declare that every subsequent general election (whether for Holyrood or Westminster) should be regarded as plebiscitary.

      We don’t control the Westminster franchise, so we just have to work with it as it is. The next Holyrood election seems the best option.

      Of course I have my doubts the current SNP and Green party leadership will have much interest in the plebiscitary election path.

    70. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sensibledave 7.15 pm

      You’re wrong. We do have (multiple) mandates where the Scottish public voted for pro-indy parties who specifically said they were standing on the platform of holding another indyref.

      Even worse from your point of view, polling – including one commissioned by this site – consistently shows that an overwhelming majority of Scots think it should be entirely a matter for Holyrood when and how often we hold referendums. That must mean a significant number of unionist voters believe this.

      Facts, eh?

    71. Murdo Fraser standing up for all 2,500,000 Scottish woman in the Transcult Reichstag,

      and

      She/Her screams `shame on you`,

      this is chilling ,

      She/Her and the Green Goblin have another 5 years to eradicate all the hard won woman`s rights.

    72. robertknight says:

      http://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-taliban-bans-all-protests-where-prior-permission-has-not-been-granted-12402345

      I’m sure Manny Singh is thinking he’s through the looking glass if he sees that headline.

    73. holymacmoses says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      8 September, 2021 at 7:33 pm
      @Sensibledave 7.15 pm

      Facts, eh?

      Sensible Dave is too lazy to be sensible of what a fact is Andy.
      He’s here for the spurtle – as I’m sure you know.

    74. Ruby says:

      wee monkey says:
      8 September, 2021 at 7:27 pm
      Clip

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-september-8-2021?clip_start=17:11:10&clip_end=17:11:51

      Reply

      It’s not clear if she/her shouted shame on you (Murdo Fraser) or shame on them (the women)

      Not that it matters! Anyone who disagrees with she/her’s views on GRA should be ashamed of themselves.

    75. Scott says:

      If this so-called social care tax is purely for the benefit of England, how can it be lawful to tax the Scots?

      Income tax is devolved, the Cons could & should have raised all the money for England in England.

      England may as well be an island.

      This tax, fewer Welsh MPs, Northern Ireland, everything the Tories do, and more…it’s shite being seen as British.

      If Alister Jack passes this for consent of the Crown, I suspect a legal challenge.

    76. Ruby says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      8 September, 2021 at 7:52 pm

      She/Her and the Green Goblin have another 5 years to eradicate all the hard won woman`s rights.

      Reply

      Well they can try but I think they are going to have quite a fight on their hands.

      ‘Women Won’t Wheesht’

      I don’t expect men will either when they find out some pervert has exposed his erect penis to their children in the ‘Girls/Womens’ changing rooms.

      Nicola Sturgeon is insane!

    77. Alf Baird says:

      Ottomanboi @ 3:59 pm

      “Whether Scotland is a colony is a matter of subjective perspective. Whether Scotland is a nation is an objective matter. The criteria for nationhood are quite specific. Scotland fulfils the geographic, cultural, historic and societal requirements which not all independent states with UN seats actually possess.”

      Scotland fulfills the requirements in regard to the definition of a colony, as Ireland did previously: political control by another country; economic exploitation by another country; and occupation by a people from that other country. This is a matter of objective fact.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/

    78. lumilumi says:

      Just checking if/how/why my username/login works someplace but not others.

      I was a busy one here back in 2011 onwards, Sturgeon’s rule and stuff at home since 2014 have reduced my participation, and now WoS BTL has bacome an unproductive cesspit of anti-vaxxers, unionist trolls and all kinds of…

      OK, so maybe we all are susceptible to divert our energies somewhere else when the one goal is thwarted.

      For instance, all women in Scotland shoud direct their energies against the Hate Crime Act and the proposed GRA reform – self-ID and the eradication of women as a political, social, or indeed a material reality class.

      Nicola Sturgeon can claim to be “feminist to her fingertips” but she always centers men and their feeelz. She/her can claim to be for independence but always centers UK feeelz. She/her is a total fraud.

      She/her has run the devolved Scotland so badly many 2014 soft yes/no people, especially women, are turning against indy if it means the gender gobledygook. At least Westminster is being more restrained and seen to protect women’s rights.

    79. Southernbystander says:

      Alf Baird

      Occupation by a people from another country? In what sense in the 21st century – English people living in Scotland?

    80. Tannadice Boy says:

      Ruby/ Scot Finlayson 7:52 and 8:10pm
      I would agree with both of you. True somehow Scotland voted for the SNP and there are in for another 5 years. That’s democracy. Countless warnings were issued. Ruby I wouldn’t phrase it that way but agree with your sentiment. Men have been aware for sometime about the protection of young girls spaces. My own circle of influence has discussed this many times before the election. We are waiting on it happening and we will respond accordingly. Shame on you is the quote. They don’t know what they are about to unleash.

    81. Southernbystander says:

      Alf Baird

      I see from your link above you say:

      “Scotland has been and continues to be occupied by significant numbers of ‘sxxlerx’ from the ‘administrative Power’, people from England comprising the largest ethnic migrant group in Scotland.”

      So English people simply living in Scotland are migrants, an ethnic group, ‘sxxlerx’ and above all, ‘occupiers’, and is a key justification for Scotland being a ‘colony’. And this is an ‘argument’ from a life-long academic, though pretty obviously not in colonialism. What next, required repatriation of the occupiers? Or just generally making sure people don’t feel welcome any more? Calling people ‘occupiers’ is a great start! Do you do it to your English neighbours’ faces?

    82. Andy Ellis says:

      @Southernbystander 8.45 pm

      The “Scotland as colony” narrative requires the identification of a group that hard thinking nativists can hold responsible for the inability of the >80% of the population that was born here to deliver a clear majority for independence. Notice that they never face up to this huge in-built majority.

      Similarly, they can’t (or don’t want to?) see how repellent the comparison is for places that have suffered real colonial rule and oppression.

      Ethnic nationalism is repellent. I’m happy not to be on the same side as the “little Scotlanders” who are advocating for it.

    83. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi lumilumi at 8:34 pm.
      You typed,
      “I was a busy one here back in 2011 onwards, Sturgeon’s rule and stuff at home since 2014 have reduced my participation, and now WoS BTL has bacome an unproductive cesspit of anti-vaxxers, unionist trolls and all kinds of…

      For instance, all women in Scotland shoud direct their energies against the Hate Crime Act and the proposed GRA reform – self-ID and the eradication of women as a political, social, or indeed a material reality class.

      Nicola Sturgeon can claim to be “feminist to her fingertips” but she always centers men and their feeelz. She/her can claim to be for independence but always centers UK feeelz. She/her is a total fraud.

      She/her has run the devolved Scotland so badly many 2014 soft yes/no people, especially women, are turning against indy if it means the gender gobledygook. At least Westminster is being more restrained and seen to protect women’s rights.”

      Back in the “noughties”, there were two women in the SNP whom I thought showed promise for the future. One was Roseanna Cunningham; the other was Ms she/her Sturgeon.

      With hindsight, I think Ms Cunningham was seen as as too “radical” for the party ‘high heid yins’; Ms she/her was seen as a safe pair of hands.

      Can you imagine what state the SNP would be in NOW, if Ms Cunningham had replaced Ms she/her as flavour of the month?

      I left the SNP and joined Alba, because of the intransigence over independence and the holy grails of the HCA and gender self ID.

      The problem we have in Scotland is that the MSM are selective in what they report. Thus, the average “man on the Fintry bus” has no idea of what the governing party has in mind.

      We have to ask: why are the MSM so supportive of the current SNP management and its policies?

    84. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      BTW: I always read your comments and replied to you on a number of occasions.

      You never replied to my mention of Sibelius…

      8-(

    85. Tannadice Boy says:

      @BrianDoonthetoon 9:34pm
      The Fintry bus now you are talking. You must know my brother he has been complaining about the Fintry buses for decades. I would disagree with lumilmi it was always down to men to solve GRA. We are nothing if we don’t protect our young girls. I have listened to you about joining Alba. I sit on the fence. Unconvinced that measures are in place to prevent entryism. Anyhoo great result for Scotland.

    86. Ottomanboi says:

      In the meantime, in Covidian universe, the Chinese and the Americans are apportioning territory.
      Belt and road, coke and netflix, take your choice of imperialisms. The only choice you will in years to come be offered. Unless free nations, if there are any left, revolt.
      There is, of course, a third «choice» which is hardly a choice per se, Islam. Both America and China are shit scared of it.
      Don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

    87. Late goal for Poland,

      my nativist heart is broken, poor old englandshire,

      Southhall`s tactic of boring teams/fans/tv to death and then sneaking a late goal nearly worked again.

    88. Fred says:

      Alf Baird @8:26 PM
      “Scotland fulfils the requirements in regard to the definition of a colony”

      Honestly Alf, it’s you who’s colonised Wings with this ceaseless, incessant narrative in a desperate bid to get some half-wit to buy into it.
      ‘Tell you what, both Middlesbrough and Burnley are both less than a couple of hours drive from the border. Take a drive down at the weekend and do a street survey, asking them how the economic exploitation of Scotland is working out for them.

      Question: Do you think when New Labour was in full swing with Blair, Brown, Cook, Darling,Robertson – and lets throw in Alastair Campbell as well seeing as his entire heritage was Scottish, that it would be reasonable to suggest that the rest of the UK was then colonised by Scotland? It certainly fits your three criteria for it.

    89. Pixywine says:

      Ellis the midwit decides you are spam because you disagree with his own brand of wokery. Andy. Did you know that your public Onanism is embarrassing for the rest of us?

    90. Pixywine says:

      Like a dog licking it’s own bollocks Andy.

    91. Alf Baird says:

      Southernbystander @ 9:18 pm

      “So English people simply living in Scotland are migrants, an ethnic group, ‘sxxlerx’ and above all, ‘occupiers’, and is a key justification for Scotland being a ‘colony’.”

      The census describes the largest ‘ethnic migrant group’ coming to Scotland being people from England, that is a fact. If you have a problem with that then take it up with National Records of Scotland. As for the ‘key’ aspect or objective of colonialism, in postcolonial literature that is generally considered to be economic plunder and exploitation.

    92. Pixywine says:

      Sturgeon should be ashamed of her abject adherence to the Cult bandwagon of Tyranny anti science. She’s a nutter.

    93. Pixywine says:

      Lumilumi. “Anti vaxxers”?. I am fully vaccinated but I refuse to take part in a gene therapy experiment. You crack right on but I refuse to be blackmailed by Tories Tartan or otherwise. I also voted for Independence but have become disappointed in the wholesale collapse of common sense in people who used to make sense to me.
      If you must repeat Government nudge words like “anti vaxxer” there’s no hope for you and its just as well you don’t post so often. You were always a long winded navel gazer anyway.

    94. Hatuey says:

      People didn’t politicise things like vaccines and viruses before the Internet.

      That’s all.

    95. J.o.e says:

      @Ebok

      (apologies this post has gone on a long way. If you dont read it id understand)

      Thanks for that excellent post.

      You asked ‘What I cannot do, and cannot see from these pages, is find a way out.’

      In my opinion the problem is best considered this way:

      We know the political route inside out and it is unlikely to lead us to anything like what we want or need in the short term (i.e within 10 years at the very least).

      The legal side of things, which is not something I know much about, I would suspect is pretty well tied up also and the evidence appears to back that up.

      So for the time being the average Scottish citizen is wasting his or her time spending much time thinking about the politial route.

      However lets not be fooled into thinking there will be a route out this way on its own. We are up against an international financial cartel of unbelievable scope of which the British establishment is but a part. I could paint a very black picture that before the trans nonsense and before covid most people could never have begun to swallow, all I could do was point out mostly domestic issues from the perspective of understanding the bigger picture. A bigger picture quite a few on this blog are now beginning to see by the looks of it.

      What Scotland needs is a Scottish nationalist movement that is fierce, is out to defend and promote the well being of Scots in every facet of life including politics but much further – into economics, education, legal, health. Teach Scots how to form and run local communities, how to boost their local economies. Perhaps most important of all is how to think like a nationalist and drop the baggage of false guilt we are taught to feel about it (borne of propaganda and poisonous ideologies) and display a real unflinching pride and confidence. Pretty much everything. We must start to provide for our people what the state isn’t.

      Of course the trouble is where the honest hell do you start with that?

      Firstly it takes a small group to start showing the way. This involves building up a picture of the world as it is, without apologies, and without caring if this truth is rejected at first. What counts is that we are trying to be as objective as possible.

      Examples: effectively challenging the covid narrative, showing the historical roots of the policies being forced on us as well as the false narratives that seek to essentially castrate nationalist spirit, how the real economy works and with all that calling out the politicians and showing people what they will do before they do it. This will put us in a position of being looked at as a guide to the Scots who more and more will be forced to face harsh realities.

      Secondly: once we have established that we basically ‘get it’ how the world, finance and our politics really works with a good predictive ability and being able to get the right information to people to help them understand so that they are not simply lost in a world of MSM, internet aliens/flat earth, and slime politicians we can then start to work on bottom-up solutions for Scots (and other inhabitants of our country) to start regaining control of their lives. Particularly the young.

      These bottom up solutions will include –

      1 – help to organise economic function within local communities. I have already wrote about this but it is critical. We simply cannot be sending massive amounts of money to our enemies in the investment/banking class by spending it in Plc’s or larger private enterprises. We must be making efforts for Scots to get an increasing share of that and promote and support private enterprise in our own people. From food, to clothes, to trades, to logistics everything. We must show how to set up cooperatives and how to function in business. We must aim to have as much of this in the hands of Scots and Scottish citizens as possible. Its a long project but it must happen. The roots of power in our world are economic.

      2 – schooling. We need to make it fairly easy for Scottish families to educate their children better and in line with our own values. Whether it is outright home schooling or support. Scottish children need to start getting their brains back and avoid the utter poison that is considered ‘normal’ now.

      3 – health. We need to make it easy for Scots to avoid the predations of a pharmaceutical industry that is running amok and offer sources of information that improve health and fitness in line with real science and not the shit that gets put out to profit what are now without a doubt international criminals. We need to make it possible for our people who dont fall for the covid vaccine pish to get health advice and if possible attention by medical professionals who are on the same page.

      There’s more ive thought of but ill stop with those examples.

      Thirdly – with the basics established and offering a wide spectrum of support and positive motivation for our people we then start to set up a more centralised grouping that aims to take on the establishment directly.

      Do you know how many millions per month revenue a trusted and capable organisation could gain from Scots nationalists simply by transferring TV license towards our organisation? It could easily be over 10m per month. That funding would serve as the basis of what I would consider the embryo of a parallel state.

      It could begin to finance:
      1 – a dedicated and professional media outlet
      2 – a small dedicated legal team whose entire job is to challenge the establishment and take up cases for our people.
      3 – a massive boost in our abilities to push everything mentioned til now.

      Fourth – this would be an ongoing project which is to reach out and link with all other nationalist movements and parties that are not obvious violent extremists. We would help to push the idea of a global movement of nationalists that seek to take back their homelands and future from international corporate criminals.

      When it comes to nationalism Scotland is an example of bravery, courage, spirit and fairness known all over the world. When it comes to nationalism our ‘brand’ is probably the leader. The establishment know this and this is why a constant stream of poison and attempts to make us guilty for expressing real nationalist spirit is applied. They know they must dampen us down. They are actually really scared of this escaping them in my view and for this purpose a lot of effort is expended in order to keep it confined.

      Fifth – once most of everything else is in order make political power the objective. We will already have built the foundations and shown our intentions and will have brought many of our people, and probably many who are not, into our fold. We will already be demonstrating how much better Scots (or anyone in the world) can do by taking our route. Without firing a shot we will have waged outright war on the establishment and improved the lives of ordinary people in doing so. Those who don’t start off with our way of thinking will come to us anyway because we will be the only ones offering solutions that are practical and possible for everyone.

      Our ethos should be that we support every sovereign nation on earth and that we stand in solidarity with all peoples of all colours and religions. We will universally promote the spirit of nationalism.

    96. Pixywine says:

      Sturgeon plans to keep the “unvaccinated” locked down and restricted. I told you dumb assed Jocks this was coming a year ago. When you called me a “conspiracy theorist” you didn’t let on that you actually liked the idea. Fascist bastard First Minister.

    97. Alf Baird says:

      Fred @ 10:38 pm

      “Question: Do you think when New Labour was in full swing with Blair, Brown, Cook, Darling,Robertson – and lets throw in Alastair Campbell as well seeing as his entire heritage was Scottish,”

      Postcolonial literature is quite clear on the matter of the bourgeoisie native mimicking the colonizer in terms of assuming his culture, language and values in order to maintain their privileges and status under colonial rule. In this regard they discard their own national heritage, culture and language, that is assuming it is Scottish to begin with. What did you think private (colonial) schools and ‘elite’ universities were for? Here we may also differentiate between Scots and Anglo-Scots, much as with the Irish and Anglo-Irish, or the Indian and Anglo-Indian under colonialism.

    98. lumilumi says:

      @ Tannadice Boy 9:56

      Oi! If you have beef with Brian, keep ME out of it! Ay? Or do you want to mock me as well? For my deeply held belief in the fact that sex is real?

      I’m a woman – and you know it – but what if I self-id’d as a man, would you take me or my opinions more seriously?

      Yeah, I didn’t think so.

    99. Alf Baird says:

      J.o.e @ 11:21 pm

      “Our ethos should be that we support every sovereign nation on earth and that we stand in solidarity with all peoples of all colours and religions. We will universally promote the spirit of nationalism.”

      An excellent and admirable ethos, as reflecting a vibrant independent national culture and national consciousness no longer subject to external domination, oppression and colonialism.

    100. lumilumi says:

      Pixywine says:
      8 September, 2021 at 11:18 pm

      Duly noted. I’ll just go and gaze at my navel now.

      Way to promote discussion on any topic.

      Sigh.

    101. David Caledonia says:

      The Scottish Government

      Told by england what to do, and what not to do

      The Scottish Government

      The same old bland discussions about it every day

      Talking about the scottish Government all the time, The Queen of Scotland and her tribe of monkey followers

      Groundhog Day

    102. Hatuey says:

      Pixywino “Sturgeon plans to keep the “unvaccinated” locked down and restricted. I told you dumb assed Jocks this was coming a year ago…”

      We should have listened to you. If only we had fucking listened.

      Is it too late? What can we do?

    103. twathater says:

      @ Fred 10.38pm Fred do you honestly believe the clowns you mentioned have any feelings for their country or countrymen/women ,

      Those proud Scots BUT are a big part of the reason we are in the shit state we are now

      Those self serving creepy arseholes done everything in their power to HIDE the enormous wealth that was available to Scotland and its people
      Those same proud Scots BUT who were in government in Scotland for DECADES yet their representative Jack the lad mcConnell handed back £1 billion to WM because he couldn’t find anything worthwhile to spend it on. Jack who is now LARD Mc Connell his reward for his treachery while Scots suffered poverty , those people aren’t Scottish they are hooooors

    104. Ruby says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:

      We have to ask: why are the MSM so supportive of the current SNP management and its policies?

      Reply

      The question is who are the MSM?

      Do they work for the SNP writing press releases which they pass onto Tom Gordon for publication in Herald?

      Is ‘The Herald’ etc reliant on government funding and taxpayer funded articles written by SNP spin doctors?

      Is this happening because we no longer buy what the MSM produce and prefer to fund online bloggers?

    105. Ruby says:

      My question regarding J.O.E & Pixywine is:

      Are these guys all talk and no action?

    106. J.o.e says:

      @Ruby

      I know you are being a disingenuous thick fucking twat but for what its worth:

      ‘Firstly it takes a small group to start showing the way. This involves building up a picture of the world as it is, without apologies, and without caring if this truth is rejected at first. What counts is that we are trying to be as objective as possible.

      Examples: effectively challenging the covid narrative, showing the historical roots of the policies being forced on us as well as the false narratives that seek to essentially castrate nationalist spirit, how the real economy works and with all that calling out the politicians and showing people what they will do before they do it. This will put us in a position of being looked at as a guide to the Scots who more and more will be forced to face harsh realities.’

    107. Geoff Anderson says:

      Ruby @8:41

      Yes

      I just skip past their rants now. Zero loss in doing so

    108. @lumilumi,

      ` At least Westminster is being more restrained and seen to protect women’s rights.`

      i think this has more to do with the `left/centre` obsession with virtue signalling,

      this is why the transcult can manipulate left/centre governments like Canada,New Zealand,Scotland most of the Nordic countries and now Biden`s America,

      the politically right don`t do virtue signalling or virtue anything or they would not be to the right politically,

      Westminster havn`t been captured by the transcult `cause they really don`t give a f@ck,

      unless they could make loads of cash out of the trans dabate and then they might become more interested.

      “The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury.”
      ? Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

    109. J.o.e says:

      @Geoff Anderson

      So apart from discussing who to vote for every few years, do you have any ideas on how to strengthen Scottish nationalism?

    110. Republicofscotland says:

      England’s PM was so desperate to secure a shitty trade deal with Australia, that the two questions that the UK envoys had on climate change for the Aussies, were dropped like hot potatoes in the event that they scuppered the rotten deal.

      Meanwhile CND has warned the SNP government not to ley Scotland get stuck with Trident after independence. CND wants to see a maximum of five years for England to get its act together and remove Trident post Scottish independence.

    111. Republicofscotland says:

      An Aberdeen Christmas pantomime is standing by “comedian” Jane Godley on booking her to star in their shows, Godley admitted sending inappropriate tweets about disabled people and Chernobyl historically.

      I personally find Godley as funny as a migraine at a heavy metal concert, and she seem like Susan Calman to never be off what passes for Scottish tv these days. I’m pretty sure Godley has also been a unofficial spokesperson for the SNP, and she’s pally with Sturgeon, never a good sign.

    112. Republicofscotland says:

      So we had the royal parasites Charles and Camilla creeping about Glasgow’s West End recently, now his brother Andy is in hiding with the head of the parasites the Queen at Balmoral.

      Andy’s not there by choice he’s keeping his head down because a US lawsuit by Virginia Giuffre/Roberts, lawyers is looking to serve him papers on the lawsuit. The law firm has until the 8th of December to serve Andy, or the action could be dismissed, no doubt sleazy Andy feels safer at Balmoral behind the big iron gates and mummy on hand to protect his arse.

      Why an independent Scotland would want to retain these low lifes is beyond me.

    113. Breeks says:

      twathater says:
      9 September, 2021 at 3:45 am

      …Those proud Scots BUT are a big part of the reason we are in the shit state we are now

      Those self serving creepy arseholes done everything in their power to HIDE the enormous wealth that was available to Scotland and its people.

      They are a queer brand of people right enough, and while I don’t understand them, I have to try. If I get my way, Scotland will be resurrected as an Independent Sovereign State, not necessarily as the settled will of an ephemeral electorate, but because Independence is Scotland’s rightful status in law, where the Union is an affront to that rightful status.

      Thus I risk the wrath of all democrats, both those for and those against the Union, because I’m a Constitutionalist first, and a democrat second, and that’s a place far outside the comfort zone of most politicians… But personally, I like the views.

      “IF” Scotland is sincere in wanting a Union with England, (no laughing at the back there!), then put aside the shameful twisted sophistry of the discredited 1707 Union which so compromises Scotland’s advancement, and set about bargaining for a modern 21st Century Union which at minimum is lawful and respects the dissimilar and irreconcilable Constitutions of Scotland and England the way EU respects the individual sovereignty of it’s members. Why not? If you want the Union, make the case for having it.

      Why not go further? If the United Kingdom Union is such a boon to all component parties, if I was an ardent Unionist and proud of the Union, I feel confident enough to have it exist by annual subscription, a Union renewed every year and safely so by it’s universal popularity. Have it stand or fall by merit.

      But you won’t will you? You barely had the courage to submit the Union to one Referendum in over 300 years, and now tremble in terror at the mere prospect of a second. Hardly a vote of confidence in your Union eh?

      Did you ever stop to consider that maybe we have more faith in the Union than you do? We Independentists can at least acknowledge the Treaty is a fraud and a long-standing bogus injustice. You Unionists won’t even dare to look, because deep down, you know it’s your beliefs, and your beliefs alone which would crumble to dust.

    114. Liz g says:

      Nail on th head Breeks @ 10.19

    115. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis,

      Sorry I couldn’t get back to you’re response sooner,

      To quote you,

      What happen 300 years ago is not germaine to today,

      There is nothing more relatable today than what happen to the Scottish people 300 years ago,

      Scottish people are seeking independence of their country for a number of years due to what happened 300 years ago, and you are supposedly one of them. You even joined alba to do this.

      You still have not answered my question, were Scottish people sold as a job lot with their country in 1707 under the terms of the treaty of the union.

    116. stuart mctavish says:

      @pixywine

      From the tone of your posts I’d imagine you were only seduced/coerced into taking the injection(s) on advice of your GP (and even then possibly only after a second opinion from a higher authority). And that is perfectly fine_ but did you know that whilst up to 8 out of 10 covid deaths in uk this year may have been so called double vaccinated, public information announcements in France are currently stating the opposite about such deaths here (following a delayed roll out replete with nominally mandatoryuptake)
      ie the criminal negligence of distorting the known performance of the various packages on offer is compounded by tacit admission to the gross negligence that the product actually being forced upon its citizens does not work as advertised in any event!

      Fingers crossed Holyrood doesn’t follow in their bootsteps later today

    117. Sensible Dave says:

      Andy Ellis 7.33

      You wrote “You’re wrong. We do have (multiple) mandates where the Scottish public voted for pro-indy parties who specifically said they were standing on the platform of holding another indyref.

      Even worse from your point of view, polling – including one commissioned by this site – consistently shows that an overwhelming majority of Scots think it should be entirely a matter for Holyrood when and how often we hold referendums. That must mean a significant number of unionist voters believe this.”

      You appear to determined to win an argument with me – whilst losing the war.

      I see no actual evidence that a majority of voters in Scotland want Independence – because there isn’t any.

      Surely you agree that such a decision has to be on the basis of a majority vote?

      So rather than trying to play with words or talking about majorities in parliament, I would have thought that the main objective would be to build the majority – then have indyref2.

      If you go off half-cocked, you will lose indyref2 – and, in my view, that really would be it for a generation.

    118. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      Thumbs up.

    119. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Ruby 8.41 am

      Subject: are neo-nazi Joe and pixywino all talk and no action?

      Answer: almost certainly yes. Of course like so many of the hard of thinking their contributions are never complete without a leavening of vile abuse, that’s just the MO of people who like to see themselves as edgy and the bearers of truths not available to the rest of us, whether in relation to Covid, climate change, immigration or any other policy hobby horse they have.

      As you see from pixywino’s contributions they appear to be written in her cups. There is little point interacting with such trolls.

      In Joe’s case, once you get past the abuse you have a number of “tells” about the agenda backing up his statements:

      1) international finance cartel conspiracist. References to the Zionists controlling it, or Soros or the Rothschilds can’t be far behind.

      2) use of “wedge issues” to enlighten the lumpen proletariat about the dangers of the current socio-economic system and those who control it. In Joe’s “long read” above it’s Covid and anti vaccine conspiracism, with a side order of big pharma being in on the global finance cartel.

      3) advocation of home education, rejection of much of modern life / social model in favour of localism, ruralism, exclusion of “non-natives”. Blood and soil by any other name.

      4) reaching out to other nationalist movements around the world and becoming more militant: don’t expect cosy get togethers with like minded civic nationalists though Ruby, they’ll be cosying up with Jobbik in Hungary, Law and Justice in Poland, Le Pen in France and Erdogan in Turkey.

      5) repeated references to the role of the small group of true believers bringing the masses over to policies which are good for the collective. A common theme of authoritarian politics of both the left and the right.

    120. Dan says:

      Sensible Dave says: at 11:19 am

      I see no actual evidence that a majority of voters in Scotland want Independence – because there isn’t any.

      Maybe this will help…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-simple-ruth/

      The mandate was to hold an Indyref which would then be the actual poll that matters on whether Scotland should return to being a self-governing country.
      If you have so much faith in polls run by polling companies being accurate (they are often not…) then why bother holding official elections at all, just phone round a select few thousand folk on a database you control with polling questions formulated in a specific way to obtain the result you want, and that’ll suffice for democracy and save a whole lot of dosh.

    121. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sensible Dave

      Try to interact with what people actually write, not what you wrongly infer and we’ll all get on a lot faster, huh?

      Of course I accept we need a majority and that polling evidence since 2014 has only placed Yes ahead for limited periods. I see you are however disinclined to address the issue that polling evidence clearly shows super majorities in favour of Holyrood having the power to call referendums, not Westminster. It sounds very much like you’re indulging in cake having and eating?

      Referendums are of course only one route to independence. If that is frustrated then plebiscitary elections are equally valid, and would be predicated on 50% + 1 voting Yes in response to a clearly plebiscitary mandate being sought. No true democrat could or should oppose that.

      Similarly nobody who really believes that Westminster has no selfish interest in denying self determination to Scotland should the majority want it should be arguing that British nationalists should have a veto on the holding of a referendum which enjoys a clear mandate from a Scottish government elected with that policy as part of their platform.

      None of that is in any way exceptional, yet you appear to be arguing that we’re not allowed a referendum unless the polls show it enjoys majority support. We don’t govern with reference to opinion polls.

    122. Stuart MacKay says:

      Oh dear, Jeggit thought he was championing the cause of the progressives and gender identity when he published his series excoriating Marion Millar and #womenwontwheest.

      Instead, for his troubles, he got cancelled, https://randompublicjournal.com/2021/09/09/rosas-apologia/

      The problem is, with his reputation in tatters with either side of the divide, what’s he going to do now?

      Ah, well, live by the sword, die by the sword.

    123. John Main says:

      Andy Ellis

      It is widely recognised that “New Scots”, by and large, don’t support Scottish Independence.

      It follows logically from that, that immigration into Scotland damages the Scottish Independence cause. At the very least, for every incomer, one of the 80% native-born Scots you like to talk about has to switch from No to Yes, just to keep the losing Yes vote margin at a constant value.

      By all means support your “all are welcome, celebrate diversity and multi-culturism” beliefs Andy. But don’t pretend they can rationally co-exist with belief in an Independent future for Scotland.

      Who was it said “Politics is the art of the possible”? At some point, all rationalists have to put aside their airy-fairy virtue-signalling “wouldn’t it be nice” pipe dreams and get engaged with reality.

      The denial of irrefutable logic is moon howling writ large.

    124. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 September, 2021 at 11:38 am

      Of course like so many of the hard of thinking their contributions are never complete without a leavening of vile abuse, that’s just the MO of people who like to see themselves as edgy and the bearers of truths not available to the rest of us…

      Pfft! Fuck’s sake Andy, that’s some Wishartesque comedy gold coming from yersel when you consistently, persistently, and incorrectly label some folk in a derogatory and abusive manner.
      And just who is this “us” and “we” you are somehow the spokesperson for?
      Can folk apply to be included in the “us” and “we” collective? Is there a vetting process before I’d be allowed in? Is there a membership fee?

    125. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 10.37 am

      Your question is nonsensical. It doesn’t even merit an answer, still less badgering me to address whatever point you’re trying and failing to make with it.

      What happened in 1707 is no more important to actually achieving independence for Scotland now than the Partition of Poland was important to the restoration of a Polish state. I just don’t share your obsessive interest.

      The 150 or so states that have achieved independence since 1945 didn’t do so because of things that happened 300 years ago. History can be interesting and can inform current thinking, but it’s background colour not tablets of stone. None of the recently independent states in Europe needed to hark back to the 18th century to stiffen the resolve of their people to assert and take what is theirs by right.

    126. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘What If?’ by Scott Egner on yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

    127. James Che. says:

      There’s No evidence that the majority of voters in Scotland want independence.

      Well plenty of the majority of scottish people have given the Wicked Witch umpteen mandates to go forward with independence,

      Or are the mandates from voters not counted as valid statistics?

    128. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 11.55 am

      If you can’t discern the difference between my contributions and the expletive ridden rants posted by some of the folk on here, I can’t really help you. I’d just file you under being part of the problem, not part of the solution.

      Of course I’m posting my own views. Only someone being deliberately obtuse would try and characterise it as otherwise. It’s hardly exceptional to point out that the majority of Scots and at least from what I can see the independence movement do not share the views being espoused by folk like Joe, pixywino and others.

      You are free to disagree with me of course, but you can’t honestly be trying to say that climate change denial, being anti vaccine and/or being an ethno nationalist are in the mainstream or supported by the majority?

      Doubtless you and I might agree on quite a few policy areas Dan, but there will be others where you take what I view as the “wrong” side. If there are opposing sides, it’s pretty inevitable there will be an “us” and a “them”. What’s your point?

    129. Stuart MacKay says:

      Regardless of which side of the issue you sit on, a newly independent Scotland is the worst of both worlds for immigrants and would-be emigrants. They lose access to England and the opportunities that might afford and they’ve already lost access to the EU which is going to take a good few years to get back.

      Turkeys won’t vote for Christmas, not matter how inclusive it is presented as being.

      10 years of solid growth, increasing opportunities and excellent prospects for the young would permanently solve the “immigrant problem”. It’s just a pity there’s nobody in power that could deliver that in our lifetimes.

    130. Sensible Dave says:

      Andy Ellis

      You wrote “Referendums are of course only one route to independence. If that is frustrated then plebiscitary elections are equally valid, and would be predicated on 50% + 1 voting Yes in response to a clearly plebiscitary mandate being sought. No true democrat could or should oppose that.”

      I understand the point you are making.

      I’m not sure that you understand mine.

      You appear believe you would win a pelebiscitary election. I don’t.

      To be clear, that is not because I have a view on Scottish Independence, it is because, as an outsider, I do not see the evidence that a pre-agreed (by all parties) plebiscitary election can produce a majority for the Yessers. I refer back to my comments about indyref1 and the Rev’s graph (not mine) showing the results of the opinion polls.

      Declaring a plebiscitary election is also fraught with danger for the indie campaign.

      1. If a plebiscitary election was called and all parties agreed that it is (unlikely) then Project Feat 2 will start and, from where I am sitting, PF2 would blitz the independence argument at this time. There are still no set policy statements on any of the major issues (currency, economy, deficit, debt, tax collection, oil, etc, etc). And the subject of the EU has changed too now. It would take 10 years at least for Scotland to gain entry to the EU. Meanwhile, it would be out of the Union and outside of the EU. At the same time the “front person” of the Yes campaign’s “star” is also waning – even lots of Yessers don’t like her.

      If you get a plebiscitary election and lose it? What next?

      2. It is more likely that that the No camp would refuse to accept the basis of a plebiscitary election. They will tell No voters not to vote. Any result would then be unreliable/disputed and certainly not a mandate for the change you seek.

      As per my previous comments, once it can be shown/becomes clear that there is a popular movement by a majority of voters that want Independence, then a referendum is irresistible.

    131. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis @11:38am

      That was quite an abusive post. Riddled with a bit of real slander and deliberate misinterpretation of what I have said.

      Why is it the loudest progressives always turn out to be utterly odious individuals?

    132. J.o.e says:

      ‘reaching out to other nationalist movements around the world and becoming more militant’

      That last bit about becoming more militant is not something an honest reader can take from my post.

      It is slander and deliberate misinterpretation by a disgusting individual.

    133. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      9 September, 2021 at 9:22 am
      @Ruby

      I know you are being a disingenuous thick fucking twat but for what its worth:

      ‘Firstly it takes a small group to start showing the way. This involves building up a picture of the world as it is, without apologies, and without caring if this truth is rejected at first. What counts is that we are trying to be as objective as possible.

      Reply

      Where, when & how is this small group doing all this?

    134. James Che. says:

      Of corse deal with the question by doing some hard thinking instead of using vile abuse at me,
      But hey! That’s you’re MO whereby you like to see yourself as edgy but actually obfuscate a rather simple question,

      It’s only nonsense so all to to you’re own opinion,
      But not perhaps to most of the Scottish people,

      As to badgering you, did you know it is supposed to be the highest form of a compliment when someone copies you.

    135. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sensible Dave 12.34 pm

      Oh, I do understand it, I just don’t think it’s valid. Of course there are no guarantees a plebiscitary election can be won. So what? We’ll never know until we try. Similarly we’ll never know if we can win #indyref2 unless it is called and we have a campaign for it. That’s just politics: there are no sure things.

      1. Plebiscitary elections don’t depend on all the parties agreeing. What matters is that pro independence parties (or even indy sceptic parties who accept that the Scots voters get to decide, not Westminster) make it plain that they are standing for election on an explicit platform that if they gain a majority of the votes cast it will be taken as a de facto Declaration of Independence. Unless the turnout was freakishly low – which appears unlikely IMO – then it’d be game over for the union. The rest of your point is just a rehash of Project Fear 2014. It wasn’t true then, and it’s even less true now post brexit.

      2. Britnats are less likely to boycott a general election than a contested referendum. If plebiscitary elections are being held in response to a Westminster vetoed referendum it is relatively easy to make the case to the international community that we tried the other available options, including the precedent used in 2014, but British nationalists intransigence forced us to change our route to indy. Unless turnout was lower than 50%, the international community will not see a boycott by Scottish unionists as that persuasive.

      You’re putting the cart before the horse. If a party gets elected on a platform of holding a referendum or on an explicitly plebiscitary platform and wins a majority then it would be a democratic outrage for that result not to be expected. We don’t run out democratic system in the basis that you’re not allowed to do things unless you can show before hand that it enjoyed majority support. This isn’t Periclean Athens where we all gather on the Pnyx and exercise direct democracy.

      What you are advocating is a denial of democracy.

    136. J.o.e says:

      @Ruby

      Im not interested in bandying posts back and forth with you. You are about the last person I would want to waste any time in discussing anything.

    137. robbo says:

      Sensible Dave says:
      9 September, 2021 at 12:34 pm

      If you get a plebiscitary election and lose it? What next?

      ————–

      We send in our weapons of mass destruction to WM .We send in the midges. Surrender in an hour.

    138. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 September, 2021 at 11:38 am
      @ Ruby 8.41 am

      Subject: are neo-nazi Joe and pixywino all talk and no action?

      Answer: almost certainly yes

      Reply

      Well done for include the subject matter. 🙂

      It’s a great idea.
      Now I know whether or not I will be interested in your post or if I will just SQP.

    139. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 12.14pm

      The point I was making is that you negatively impact the worth of your own contributions with your attempts to call folk out for being abusive, when you are equally guilty of chucking abuse at folk.

      You pretty much always bullishly and with zero nuance resort to categorising folk into the negative polar extremes on any particular matter. Even when some of those folk are just trying to have a discussion with input from others on particular subjects.
      If those discussions were actually allowed to be had rather than effectively shutdown by the domineering imposition from certain folk, then the input from a range of views may help inform folk to the point they can decide for themselves where they position themselves in relation to the matters being discussed.

      Many will agree btl is not currently what it used to be.
      After all the years of hard graft Stu put in to build the Wings platform, now that he is taking a break, the least we could do is make the effort to try and maintain and sustain a decent level of btl discourse on a range of subject matters which would give some value for the folk that still comment on or read the site.

      EG. What do folk make of the recent dropping of plans for the National Energy Company by ScotGov?

      Also, here’s a link Robin McAlpine’s new blog site.

      http://robinmcalpine.org/welcome-come-on-in/

    140. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      9 September, 2021 at 1:17 pm
      @ Andy Ellis at 12.14pm

      The point I was making is that you negatively impact the worth of your own contributions with your attempts to call folk out for being abusive, when you are equally guilty of chucking abuse at folk.

      Reply

      I agree with that. He hasn’t reached the same level as J.O.E by calling my a ‘disingenuous thick fucking twat’ but I have had my fair share of abuse from Andy E.

      I think there is hope for him. He just needs a few nudges in the right direction.

      I would like to convince him just sometimes to ‘let things go’ just to ignore J.O.E & Sensible Dave and not end up having a long draw up pissing contest with either of those two.

    141. @Stuart MacKay,

      `Oh dear, Jeggit thought he was championing the cause of the progressives and gender identity when he published his series excoriating Marion Millar and #womenwontwheest.

      Instead, for his troubles, he got cancelled, https://randompublicjournal.com/2021/09/09/rosas-apologia/`

      this is what what happens when two vitue signallers collide

    142. `Others` up to 6% from 2% in newest opinion poll,

      i wonder if that is Alba.

    143. sarah says:

      @ Dan “after all the years of hard graft Stu put in…”

      Not to mention the mental torture of the Met Police seizing his computers etc and Kezia Dugdale slandering and libelling him.

      People btl really should take a good hard look at what they write before submitting it. Ask themselves “Is this up to Stu’s standards? Is it helping the noble cause of truth, justice and restoring Scotland’s independence?”

    144. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      9 September, 2021 at 1:04 pm
      @Ruby

      Im not interested in bandying posts back and forth with you. You are about the last person I would want to waste any time in discussing anything.

      Reply

      I just asked a simple question. You could have answered it in less time than it took you to type the above.

      Well OK if you don’t want to answer my question then I’ll make a guess as to where, when & how your small group is doing all the things you outlined in your post.

    145. Sensible Dave says:

      Andy 1.01

      .. I’m not “denying” anything Andy.

      I am positively in favour of persuading a majority of voters in Scotland of the benefits of Independence – as being the route to achieving it.

      Your preferred options seem to be that to hold a vote of some sort is the goal. All well and good, but holding it and then losing it? what use is that – other than for the proposition to be shelved for a generation.

      As an aside, you suggest that the questions I raised have been asked and answered previously. So it will be easy for you to answer these questions:

      1. What currency will Scotland use after Independence?
      2. Who will set monetary policy and interest rates in SCotland?
      3. What will Scotland’s national debt be.
      4. How big will Scotland’s deficit be?
      5. How is Scotland going to balance its finances? More taxes?
      6. Will SCotland want to join the EU?
      7. How long will that take?
      8. Whilst outside the EU what trade deals will it have.
      9. Will there be a physical border with England
      10. Will oil production remain a key part of SCotland’s Green economy?

      … etc, etc

      Imagine you are on the telly – and answer those questions quickly and succinctly.

    146. Ruby says:

      One thing I have to say about ‘Sinister Dave’ is that he gets tops marks for ‘flame-baiting’

    147. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 1.17 pm

      Me calling moon howlers out for their woo woo beliefs is not abuse mate. The fact that you appear utterly unable to discern the difference between me disagreeing with sundry anti vaxxers, climate change deniers, neo nazis and ethno nationalists, and the input of potty mouthed roasters like Joe, pixywino and their ilk tells me everything I need or want to know about you and your motivations. You’re just too much like hard work.

      You can’t reason with these folk. You can point and laugh and/or you can respond in detail in an attempt to show others who might be reading how misguided you think they are. In the end it’s attitudes like yours (which amount to “look they might be a foul mouthed unreasoning troll, but let’s hear them out and have a respectful debate”) that have contributed to BTL here becoming a proper zoo for fringe nutters. I’m not averse to biting back if people throw abuse about, but unlike some it’s not my initial recourse.

      The false equation of disagreement (however trenchant) with abuse is of course a tactic we knew well from indyref1, and we despised Better Together and the britnats who used it. It’s sad to see our own side using it here of all places. I’m done arguing the toss with you Dan: you’re a lost cause.

    148. Sensible Dave says:

      Hey Rubes

      Are you going to answer my questions for me?

    149. Derek says:

      robbo says:
      9 September, 2021 at 1:16 pm

      We send in the midges. Surrender in an hour.

      There’d be wailing and gnashing of teeth – and accusations of biological warfare…!

    150. Ron Maclean says:

      Bullying, boorish behaviour has long been a feature of this site btl. Has it ever solved anything?

    151. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Sensible Dave 1.46pm

      Neither you nor anyone else gets to place random timescales on when or how often Scots vote. In the end it’s our decision. If there was the support to do it annually that’s what should happen. That’s democracy.

      As for your Project Fear playbook talking points:

      1) Out own currency, just like lots of other newly independent countries managed. Or do you propose Scotland is uniquely incapable?
      2) Our own central bank. Same rationale and question as for 1.
      3) Depends on the circumstances and negotiations with britnats. Zero if Westminster is unreasonable, or an agreed share of UK debt.
      4) Unknowable. Depends on 3 above and what the taxing and spending priorities of the first Scottish government is. See also answer to 1 above.
      5) The same as other countries. We’re not unique. We’ll have a deficit, so what? Every other country possibly apart from Norway does. See answer in point 1 above.
      6) Maybe. Scots will decide post indy. I’d personally prefer not to, but odds are the majority will say yes. There is no queue before you start on that, nor would we ever have to adopt the Euro in practice even it’s supposed to be a requirement (see also Sweden).
      7) Finland did it from ground zero with no previous history in 24 months. Scotland is hardly likely to be more.
      8) Who knows. Do you honestly think it’d be that much worse than Global Britain helmed by one of the most comically inept governments in centuries?
      9) Yes. Oil can still be used for things other than fuelling transport. Whatever the knit your own yoghurt pot types think, we’re not ready for Green nirvana yet.

      None of this is rocket science. It’s no different now than it was in 2014. The difference now post brexit is that the britnat Project Fear claims to economic competence have been holed below the water line. The cost/benefit analysis then went in favour of the No camp for the majority. That calculation isn’t likely to be the same for indyref2 or before plebiscitary elections in the next few years.

    152. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Dave 1.46 pm

      Apologies for missing your # 9

      9) If necessary, yes. (See also Northern Ireland and sauce for geese). 🙂

    153. James Che. says:

      I was reading a piece by Hamish MacPherson
      The National,
      27th September 2020.

      Apparently I am not the only one going back 300 years and questioning the validity and origins of the treaty of the union.

      I extended the question to ask were the Scottish people sold in the corrupt fixed deal,
      did they become bought slaves?
      Did they remain free?
      Are they still bought slaves.
      Or are the still free men, women and children,

      AND OF CORSE SCOTTISH PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO KNOW IF THEY ARE STILL BOUGHT SLAVES AS A NATION.

    154. James Che. says:

      If we were bought slaves,
      It is now illegal.
      What right has a government to buy a country and its people 300 years ago and expect those Scottish people to remain slaves in 2021 to 1707 contractual agreement.

      Or do Scottish people consider it is a nonsense question as to their present day status of ownership?

    155. Andy Ellis says:

      @ James Che 3.15 pm

      “Or do Scottish people consider it is a nonsense question as to their present day status of ownership?”

      Not just Scottish people James, any reasonable person thinks it’s a nonsense question.

      Happy to help!

    156. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Still no reply as to your lies about what I posted?

    157. Republicofscotland says:

      Sensible Dave @1.46pm.

      As if every country that’s become independent answered those questions before becoming independent, I think not.

      Scotland the Brief clearly shows that Scotland is wealthy enough, and better off without this rancid union, all other aspects are for the people of Scotland to decide among themselves.

      The real poser is how will England get by without its cash cow Scotland, now that its up to its eyes in debt, and has had its triple AA credit rating downgraded to Aa2, the third highest, Moodies downgraded the UK in 2013.

      https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotland-the-brief/#:~:text=Scotland%20the%20Brief%20summarises%20an%20in-depth%20investigation%20into,and%20absorb%2C%20as%20well%20as%20fun%20to%20read.

    158. Republicofscotland says:

      Who is the numpty that keeps prattling on about polls and the will of the Scottish people is it Senseless Dave.

      Oh look Yes is in the lead in the latest poll.

      https://archive.is/52LQ6

    159. Andy Ellis says:

      @J.o.e 3.28 pm

      Honest opinion based on evidence can’t be considered as lies Joe.

      No reasonable person on the Clapham (or any other) omnibus could read your output on this and other threads here and feel it wasn’t fair comment.

    160. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my 10.06am comment on Jane Godley’s vile historic tweets, it would appear that Godley has more nefarious comments under her belt, according to this, Godley is a racist, she has issued a second apology.

      https://archive.is/z4TNP

      https://archive.is/h3ZU4

      Will Sturgeon race to her good pals defence, or will she dropped her quicker than she dropped Margaret Ferrier, or will she turn a blind eye to Godley, as she did to her party’s Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine, who were abused and threatened by online, by some of the SNP membership and hierarchy.

    161. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      …and anybody who has seen how paedophiles communicate online could come to no other conclusion than you are likely to be one of those who likes small boys.

      Unless of course we go by what you have actually written and conclude that this is a preposterous assertion?

      The fact is my post didn’t say anything like what you claimed it did. That makes it lies.

      Have you anything else to explain that except for your last nonsense? In which case I will freely conclude anything I want about what you say, regardless of whether you said anything to suggest it.

    162. Sensible Dave says:

      Andy Ellis

      … this is hard work! I am not arguing against Scottish independence! Have you got that?

      I am saying that all the previous answers were not good enough to convince the majority – because the majority didn’t vote Yes. Agreed?

      Is the situation better or worse now? Easier or harder?

      Objectively, I would suggest that the “floating voters” haven’t seen anything in the last 2 years that is a compelling argument for changing from their previous position – to voting Yes. Other than, perhaps, the outcome of the Brexit vote as far as SCotland is concerned. But Scotland is now out of the EU and being out of the Union at the same time, I would suggest, hinders rather than helps.

      Clearly you want to “bet the farm” on the belief that they have. That’s a very big call to get wrong Andy.

      With respect to comment by someone that Scots can decide every year to hold a referendum if they want – that is of course true.

      What is actually meant though is that those representing the minority can attempt to impose its will on the majority every year – if the minority has created the means to be able to do so (i.e. achieved a majority in parliament).

      Clearly that is your plan. I personally don’t think it will work.

    163. sarah says:

      FAO Margaret Eleftheriou re your books for Craig Murray: I have emailed Craig today with details of the 5 books that I hope are the ones you sent! Peasants, Troy, Wonderful Life, Moneyless, and the Rob Boddice?

      I asked him to let me know idc if he has been informed by the library of their arrival. I also asked about the trilogy I sent.

      Re asking Keith Brown to release Craig on compassionate health grounds, I hope that many here btl have emailed him at cabsecjustice [at] gov [dot] scot. Let’s make him a bit uncomfortable. 🙂

    164. Robert Graham says:

      o/t

      Sorry to interrupt the fascinating discussions on a Indyref2 that is now because of Sturgeon so deeply buried under all the shite and promises from her version of the SNP that finding it would take all the Archaeologists on the planet to find it , it’s fkn dead while she is in place .

      On a lighter note does anyone know when this Vax Pass vote is taking place ? or indeed has it already taken place because the announcements from herr Fuhrer Sturgeon she seems to think it’s going to be in place sometime during Qctober the First I believe was mentioned.

      The greens will swallow their principles ( fk sake no laughing please ) yes the wee green man ? not quite sure about that bit , anyway I guess the wee Green Person will have a memory lapse and forgot he has been totally against any kind of Medical Apartheid and will probably bend over and assume his normal position , either that or on principle his wee circle will abstain .who knows .

    165. Republicofscotland says:

      Vaccine passports are to be introduced on the 1st of October for access to night clubs and large events.

      Meanwhile SEPA finally gets it right, by not following England down the same path. England is to allow companies to dump sewage which has not been properly treated into its rivers and streams.

      (SEPA) the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency has stated it will not allow this to happen in Scotland. Right SEPA, now that you are beginning to get the finger out, get onto the MoD and tell them to stop their bloody nuclear subs from polluting our lochs with radioactive waste.

    166. Republicofscotland says:

      “I am saying that all the previous answers were not good enough to convince the majority – because the majority didn’t vote Yes.”

      Sensible Dave @4.31pm.

      FFS Dave, the public were lied to by Better Together and it unionist media machine, here’s seventeen examples of those lies.

      https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/

      And I’ll tell you what, when a date is announced for the next indyref the b*stards will lie again, and the unionist media will back them up.

    167. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      9 September, 2021 at 2:37 pm
      @ Sensible Dave 1.46pm

      Neither you nor anyone else gets to place random timescales on when or how often Scots vote. In the end it’s our decision. If there was the support to do it annually that’s what should happen. That’s democracy.

      Reply

      Do you honestly think ‘Sinister Dave’ is interested in all that stuff or that he is going to read it?

      Being that your post is addressed to ‘Sinister Dave’ nobody else will either.

      You have wasted your time.

      I’m wondering if your assessment of J.O.E. is correct. Could J.O.E. just be another Unionist troll here to cause trouble?

    168. Ruby says:

      ‘A separate poll commissioned by the Scotland in Union campaign this week reported a very different result, with 57% of decided voters saying they vote No in Indyref2.’

      That made me laugh!

      Who does Pamela’s polls?

    169. J.o.e says:

      Im just gonig to say this – the only time a referendum on Scottish independence will be agreed upon is when they have all the pieces in place to get the result they want, and with sufficient means to basically nullify the result should it somehow go against them.

      You will never again get a fair shot at a referendum. It will mot likely be a means to trap Scotland into a 2nd pro Union result and that result will be written in stone forever more.

      At this point I think even agreeing to a referendum is a bad idea.

    170. Sensible Dave says:

      RoS 4.41

      You wrote “FFS Dave, the public were lied to by Better Together and it unionist media machine, here’s seventeen examples of those lies.”

      I’ll play devil’s advocate …..

      Westminster: We delivered all aspects of the Vow – and more. The only people that say that we didn’t are the nasty blood and soil types – who would say that wouldn’t they.

      Westminster: Many of the SNP’s arguments for a post- independence SCottish economy – we’re based upon unsustainable oil prices. We all know what happened. Oil prices slumped and Scotland has been supported, quite rightly, by the UK coffers to assist in their difficult economic times. People in the more prosperous south of England support additional public spending per head for people in Scotland. Its the right thing to do. We are better together.

      etc, etc

      … I knocked that up in about 5 mins!

      Westminster: We have left the EU now. Why would Scots want to leave a successful Union that has lasted for 300 years – to be ruled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Why would they want to be forced to use the Euro, give up the fishing grounds again, pay billions in membership fees – and not have border free travel with ENgland?

    171. Robert Graham says:

      FFS wullie rennie talking sense

      FFS get ma coat

      This country has changed out of all recognition when men can say they are women just because that’s how they feel today ,

      I wonder if the troops that fought in the Second World War if they were still alive would believe their sacrifice was worth it or just a fkn waste of time if this shite was the result , I just watched a SNP MSP who cited the waiting lists as a excuse for the Vax Pass without doubt either she was at the back of the line when brains were being given out or she wasn’t even in the fkn Queue .

    172. Ruby says:

      When all the implications of ‘self-id’ are known and a huge % of the electorate decide Nicola Sturgeon is completely nuts will the number of YES voters increase or decrease?

      Could Nicola Sturgeon be sold as being part of the Union and voting YES would be the only way to get shot of her.

    173. twathater says:

      My goodness the union brigade are very busy today interacting with one another , or maybe they’re just talking to themselves

    174. Robert Graham says:

      That well known and respected Medical Expert Humza is now attempting to baffle MSPs firstly by quoting the latest version of the truth , now he is actually telling barefaced fkn lies to back up this Medical mumbo jumbo he quotes the science Aye who’s fkn Science pal ? no wonder MSPs are giving this fkn fraud a hard time.

    175. @Sensible Dave,

      `oil prices slump`

      that is why you have an oil fund,

      it`s a system been used since prehistoric times,

      save up your summer bounty for the hard winter,

      how much in Scotland`s oil fund ya thievin c@nt.

    176. Ruby says:

      Robert Graham says:
      9 September, 2021 at 5:16 pm
      FFS wullie rennie talking sense

      FFS get ma coat

      This country has changed out of all recognition when men can say they are women just because that’s how they feel today ,

      Reply

      I’ve been asking around about self-id.

      I get the impression people think the above is such a preposterous idea that it could never happen so they are not taking it seriously.

    177. twathater says:

      For the benefit of Andy Pandy and his pal Big Ears (sd) who doesn’t care about indy

      SCOTS VOTED 53% FOR INDEPENDENCE SO THEY WERE CONVINCED

    178. Republicofscotland says:

      “Westminster: We delivered all aspects of the Vow – and more. The only people that say that we didn’t are the nasty blood and soil types – who would say that wouldn’t they.”

      Sensible Dave @5.09pm

      So I take you agree that the Better Together lied in 2014 prior to the referendum.

      On the above.

      Not according to this it hasn’t.

      https://www.businessforscotland.com/smith-commission-falls-short-of-devolution-vow/

      Of course on top of this we have the syphoning off of powers which impinge on devolved areas, coming back from the EU, and Johnson saying that he’ll give funds directly to councils bypassing Holyrood in the process.

    179. Nally Anders says:

      Lorna Campbell absolutely nails it over on ‘It’s Shite Being Scottish’ blog. .
      A terrifying picture but well reasoned argument as to where all the Gender Woo Woo will lead us.
      https://duncanspence.blog/2021/09/09/legally-just-sex-is-immutable-but-is-the-law-impermeable/

    180. Republicofscotland says:

      There’s nothing Scotland can’t do as an independent country, that England does just now except be a P5 member, of which we don’t need to be.

      England is already an independent country, it makes its own trade deals, it has embassies around the globe, it meets with worldwide dignitaries, it controls its own monetary policies, it controls its own immigration and passports, it controls all the military forces, and much, much more.

      England is in a union, but acts like an independent country. Scotland must act in a similar fashion, and dissolve this farce of a union for good.

    181. Scott says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      9 September, 2021 at 12:23 pm

      Regardless of which side of the issue you sit on, a newly independent Scotland is the worst of both worlds for immigrants and would-be emigrants. They lose access to England

      Sensible Dave says:
      9 September, 2021 at 5:09 pm

      Westminster: We have left the EU now. Why would Scots want to leave a successful Union that has lasted for 300 years – to be ruled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Why would they want to be forced to use the Euro, give up the fishing grounds again, pay billions in membership fees – and not have border free travel with ENgland?

      The Common Travel Area still exists, even though Ireland is in EU.

      There’s no reason for Scotland to be excluded going forward.

      FWIW, the monarch isn’t going to allow ‘frosty relations’ between an independent Scotland and rUK.

      Her Treasury will ensure that her Scotland has a fair share of the assets.

      Current debt will still be held by WM.

      Current pensions will still be payable by WM.

      Nationalities won’t have to change.

      Scotland has scope for massive amounts of investment in infrastructure.

      Scotland has scope for a radical overhaul of food production, a subset of infrastructure.

      Job and wealth creation in the early days of an independent Scotland…easy.

    182. Republicofscotland says:

      Update on Jane Godley, Sturgeon’s buddy, Godley has been axed from the SNP’s Scottish Covid campaign adverts, she’ll now not make people laugh for ten days.

    183. Fred says:

      “Fred do you honestly believe the clowns you mentioned have any feelings for their country or countrymen/women”

      Twathater:
      No. I was being facetious, and the question was more rhetorical than anything. I was just demonstrating that Alf’s crazy criteria for determining what qualifies a country as a colony could be used both ways – and hopefully put that nonsense to bed once and for all.

      Yes. I 100% agree. Blairism, which Cameron through to Johnson have happily adopted, is just a less aggressive, but just as potent, extension of Thatcherism – one of the main factors as to why the fabric of whatever we had as a society has been irreparably destroyed.

    184. Sensibledave says:

      To those “upset” by the paragraphs I knocked up, I was imagining what might be said by Westminster in PF2.

      Clearly, other than abuse and silly comments, you do not appear to much of a response to even the most basic levels of inquiry. To win, you will need to persuade,, convince, inspire the No voters. I’m not sure calling them c***s is quite going to do it!:-)

    185. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 2:06 pm

      Me calling moon howlers out for their woo woo beliefs is not abuse mate. The fact that you appear utterly unable to discern the difference between me disagreeing with sundry anti vaxxers, climate change deniers, neo nazis and ethno nationalists, and the input of potty mouthed roasters like Joe, pixywino and their ilk tells me everything I need or want to know about you and your motivations.

      The trouble with trying to justify your hardline attitude with shit like that ^^^ is that it falls down flat on its face because you consistently and relentlessly class anyone that holds a different opinion to yourself into your myriad derogatory groupings, when some of those alternative opinions are valid and in no way could be considered extreme.

      The fact that I can discern and acknowledge differences in the spectrum of views put forward by different folk in what are attempts to discuss certain subjects is the very reason I call you out, because you seem unable to recognise this point, and you refuse to stop mis-classifying folk.
      Ergo, you are being abusive to those people. This flawed modus of yours has been pointed out to you many times by numerous long term btl posters yet you just bulldoze on regardless.

      My motivations are for btl discourse to be accurate and for bullshit to be called out when it occurs. So I’ll come back at you with questioning your motivations when you operate in quite such an aggressively antagonistic and disruptive way, which is far from conducive to engaging with reasonable folk in a positive manner.

    186. J.o.e says:

      Just a wee note to the guys who understand covid:

      Been meeting with a group in my area for a wee while now who all understand what’s going on and been talking future outlook and sharing tips for trying to mitigate effects of social exclusion etc.

      I would advise you do this if you aren’t already. If you can’t find a group then try and make one. Its very good for your morale

      Something i’ve been coming to the conclusion on is that the people pushing this have crossed the Rubicon some time ago. They cannot afford for things to go back to normal and for facts to continue to come to light. For them the tyranny either succeeds in crushing us or they are finished. A significant chunk of the establishment are now literally in a fight for their lives. It is a dangerous time.

    187. J.o.e says:

      ‘I wonder if the troops that fought in the Second World War if they were still alive would believe their sacrifice was worth it or just a fkn waste of time if this shite was the result’

      The people they were fighting had already been dealing with the exact same shite.

    188. Andy Ellis says:

      @Sensible Dave 4.31 pm

      1) “… this is hard work! I am not arguing against Scottish independence! Have you got that?”

      You’re making heavy weather of it certainly: whether that’s because you don’t really understand or because you’re being disingenuous is difficult to judge. I’m not sure I believe your protestations, but even if they are true, you’re still regurgitating Project Fear agitprop which requires correction. I’m happy to help, because you obviously need it.

      2) “I am saying that all the previous answers were not good enough to convince the majority – because the majority didn’t vote Yes. Agreed?”

      Yes, actually. We needed better arguments. Our campaign was one dimensional and concentrated almost exclusively on happy-clappy positive campaigning to the exclusion of pointing out the obvious flaws and potential counter arguments that there were risks in staying in the union and opportunities in becoming independent. We failed to make a strong enough case. That’s hardly news.

      3) “Is the situation better or worse now? Easier or harder?”

      In some ways it is worse and harder, in other ways it may be better. Brexit *ought* to have been a game changer, but the SNP in particular – and the indy movement more generally – fluffed it and lost a golden opportunity. No country ever gained independence thinking there were no risks. Few such countries can ever have embarked on such a journey with Scotland’s advantages. If you (or Scottish unionists) honestly believe Scotland is somehow uniquely unable to achieve what countries which are objectively much poorer and less capable have achieved, there is nothing that will change your a priori assumptions.

      4) “Objectively, I would suggest that the “floating voters” haven’t seen anything in the last 2 years that is a compelling argument for changing from their previous position – to voting Yes. Other than, perhaps, the outcome of the Brexit vote as far as SCotland is concerned. But Scotland is now out of the EU and being out of the Union at the same time, I would suggest, hinders rather than helps.”

      Perhaps: but perhaps not. It’s very difficult to prove one way or the other. Now that we have been dragged out of the EU against the will of the majority of Scots, it may make the post independence approach different to what would have happened if we’d become independent in 2014 or immediately post brexit. Floating voters appear still to be floating, yes: but then that doesn’t necessarily prove your point. If it did presumably we’d be seeing sustained falls in support for independence and pro indy parties. We aren’t seeing that though, are we?

      5) “Clearly you want to “bet the farm” on the belief that they have. That’s a very big call to get wrong Andy.”

      So what? The inverse is just as true. I’d wager there are plenty of folk who now bitterly regret voting No in 2014. Plenty of EU citizens have left Scotland and the rest of the UK. Both sides have an element of being “faith based”, both have risks and opportunities.

      6) “With respect to comment by someone that Scots can decide every year to hold a referendum if they want – that is of course true.
      What is actually meant though is that those representing the minority can attempt to impose its will on the majority every year – if the minority has created the means to be able to do so (i.e. achieved a majority in parliament).
      Clearly that is your plan. I personally don’t think it will work”

      That’s simply wrong again. You appear to have difficulties accepting how democracy works. the implications of that are somewhat alarming. If a pro-indy party stands on a platform which includes a commitment to holding a referendum, or plebiscitary elections, voters either give them a mandate, or they don’t.

      If they do, and they have the necessary majority in parliament, they get to enact their platform (unless it is somehow held to be illegal).

      Democracies don’t insist on every decision requiring >50 support from the whole electorate or >50% of voters. Few post WW2 governments in the UK have ever achieved that.

      Having annual referendums was an extreme example, but in the end you’re either a democrat who accepts that the majority decision should be respected by the losing minority, or you’re not. Democracy isn’t a pick and mix buffet where you get to abide by the things you like but ignore the things you don’t.

    189. twathater says:

      @ Fred 6.06pm (Alf’s crazy criteria), I disagree I think the situation we have at present is a perfect example of colonialism , the problem we have is that it has been reinforced over the past 300 years by people we believed had our best interests at heart and owed any allegiance or loyalty they had to Scotland, unfortunately we have all been duped by self serving self aggrandising arseholes of which the current lot are just a continuation, and that especially refers to the SNP contingent

    190. Alf Baird says:

      Fred @ 6:06 pm

      “I was just demonstrating that Alf’s crazy criteria for determining what qualifies a country as a colony could be used both ways”

      So you suggest that us Scots shuirly rin Britain wi oor 59 MP’s telling the ither 600 MPs whit tae dae; an us Scots hiv selt aff aw England’s assets tae oor Caymen Isle freens, richt eneuch; an us Scots hiv flooded intae England an noo mak up ower 20% o England’s population an Scots tak maist o thay’re heid bummer jobs tae; an us Scots hiv banned the English language in yer schuils an imposed oor ain braw Scots mither tung on aw yon English folk tae gie ye aw a Scottish – sorry, A mean British – identity. An us Scots hiv kep ye aw in thon EU agin yer will. An us Scots hiv refused ye a referendum ye votet fir on yer richt tae self-determination, aye we ken whit’s best fir ye. An us Scots aye tak ye tae war whan we like an aw.

      No, I don’t think you can say that the colonial oppression leveled on Scots can be said to occur both ways. As Albert Memmi stated, there is “a bond between colonizer and colonized (where) one is disfigured into an oppressor, a partial, unpatriotic and treacherous being, worrying only about his privileges and their defense; (and) the other, into an oppressed creature, whose development is broken and who compromises by his defeat.” Only the latter side of that bond seeks independence, whilst the former seeks to deny it, which is what we see.

    191. Republicofscotland says:

      Scott @5.57pm.

      Scott a sensible and realistic comment, maybe we should remove the Sensible from Sensible Dave and give it to you.

    192. robbo says:

      I thought Janey Godley was removed from Scot Gov corona ads/

      She’s just been on telly 2 mins ago on STV .

    193. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Joe 4.17 pm

      “Unless of course we go by what you have actually written and conclude that this is a preposterous assertion?

      The fact is my post didn’t say anything like what you claimed it did. That makes it lies.”

      We ARE going by what you’ve actually written though Joe, aren’t we? People are aware of you recommending a well known and widely discredited neo-nazi documentary series. Your own posts are replete with exactly the kind of things I referred to. People can make their judgements accordingly.

    194. Robert Graham says:

      Really glad that the important immediate stuff is being discussed on here ,

      When every single country has had demonstrations and riots resisting this Vax Pass but not here just a fkn whimper and a vote by usless brainless fkn cowards in the SNP a party I will never again vote for in my life until this fkr Sturgeon is in prison along with her fake marriage of convenience partner

      Headline on the BBC Aye Sturgeon first with the Vax pas , first with the GRA shite , first with having the only political prisoner convicted on a charge that some bought and paid for judge invented out of thin air , Sturgeon the failure as a lawyer yes dear you will be remembered and I bet your days doing walk abouts and getting selfies are well and truly over I wouldn’t spit on that fkr and as for the pink ladies on WGD fk me brains in their arses is this the kind of country you people want ? .

    195. J.o.e says:

      If you want a clear look at the kind of person Andy Ellis is, or the kind of agenda he pushes then simply look at the sheer dishonesty he has shown today.

      This guy either has serious problems or is owned

    196. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis has TWO blogs of his own, yet here he is…using the most-read Scottish independence supporting site, to still not be taken seriously.

      My guess is that every time that wee hunny in the advert says “..and we don’t take ourselves too seriously” – he scweams “I do, you **insert ad hominem**”

      Meanwhile, at the bar…there’s a country to enrich.

    197. J.o.e says:

      @Robert Graham

      Have to be honest Robert im pretty much exhausted with Covid. Ive spent months on here pointing things out from official sources and tackling the shills.

      Ive also spent a lot of emotional energy on trying to show people in my real life the truth of things.

      I am now at the point that if people can’t take the time to consider what they are doing then they fucking well deserve everything coming at them.

      My efforts now go into the people who understand are on the same page.

      One thing I can’t understand is the silence on this subject from people we would normally consider to be up in arms about basic civil rights abuses or corporate/government crime.

    198. Andy Ellis says:

      @Joe

      I’m “owned”? Really? Who is it you think I might be owned by Joe? I mean..I’m not the one hiding behind an anonymous online persona am I? I’m sure if I was in the pay of some organisation it wouldn’t be that hard for folk to find out.

      Like all other snivelling cowards who like to post abuse online you do so safe in the knowledge that you can stay safely under your bridge, throwing rocks at everyone else, and circulating your outlandish conspiracy theories.

      Still, it’s good that you and your mates have the Covid equivalent of the Tooting Popular Front to keep you occupied for the coming apocalypse! You’d be alarming if you weren’t so hilarious. 🙂

    199. Andy Ellis says:

      I see Janey Godley is the gift that just keeps giving!

      “So Janey Godley was active in the Scottish Conservative party in the wake of the miners’ strike.

      Now that is funny – comedy gold, in fact!”

      https://action4equalityscotland.blogspot.com/2021/09/comedy-gold-scotland.html

    200. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I’ll take your word for it. Problems it is then.

    201. Andy Ellis says:

      @Joe 7.40pm

      Only problem I’ve got right now is playing moon howler whack a mole with a handful of no marks on here Joe.

      It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

    202. Republicofscotland says:

      “HOLYROOD is changing its legal status to make it easier for the police to remove protesters.”

      “Scottish Parliament bosses have asked the Home Office to designate the building and its grounds as a “protected site” in the interests of national security.”

      “Legislation has now been laid in Westminster under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 which is due to come into force on October 1.”

      “From next month it will be a criminal offence to remain on the parliamentary estate “without lawful authority” punishable by a £5000 fine or a year in jail after a conviction.”

      So it looks like Scotland is becoming a wee authoritarian country, we won’t even be able to protest outside Holyrood when Sturgeon and her clique screws us over yet again on Scottish independence.

      We won’t even be able to protest again SNP government policies outside Holyrood. Women will not be able to protest outside Holyrood when their rights are badly eroded by this government in favour of those of a small minority.

      They have no right to do this, they are suppressing our rights to freedom of protest. Sturgeon is tightening her grip on Scotland I wouldn’t advise anyone to move to Scotland, its becoming authoritarian.

      https://archive.is/foZd4

    203. Captain Yossarian says:

      Has anyone asked yet why Lorna Slater and Patrick Harvie have been made Ministers? Hardly anyone has heard of them and hardly anyone voted for them. Experience has been that if Swinney glowers at Harvie he breaks into a dance anyway and so why give him a Ministerial car when the handful of worthwhile folk we have at Holyrood just get the bus to work?

    204. stuart mctavish says:

      Shameful vote on vaccine passports which FM did not even debate/ attend (despite appearing to have voted), and not a single defection to Alba/ against :(.

      Only despicable out I can now imagine is if they push through their self ID bollocks and render all the vaccist paperwork obsolete in any event but either way imediate future looks like being as shite to be Scottish as vice versa.

      Credit to Willie Rennie (against in any circumstance) and Murdo Fraser (for, but not in any circumstance) for all that.

    205. Ian Spruce says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      9 September, 2021 at 7:53 pm
      “HOLYROOD is changing its legal status to make it easier for the police to remove protesters.

      And it has now been signed into law!

      https://twitter.com/susannecc/status/1436035517527773189

    206. J.o.e says:

      I see people are still going on about the vaccine passport conspiracy theory.

      Moon howlers.

    207. willie says:

      NDLS is the new CBB.

      Time the Rev GHTF. He’s DMFHI.

    208. Captain Yossarian says:

      @willie – The first comment I ever read on WoS, back in January/February was by your good-self and it was excellent. Forgive me, but what are you talking about? You’re a proud Nationalist who usually talks perfect sense and I hardly ever disagree, but you’ve lost me with this one.

    209. J.o.e says:

      https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/american-jewrys-disgraceful-hypocrisy/

      ‘The establishment Jewish groups in the US, all of whom lock arms for Israel and lobby the American government to categorically support her at every turn, are the same groups that consistently call for open borders in Europe, increased immigration from the Middle East, a full-out embracing of multiculturalism, a weakened national culture, and a diminished Church. They are the same groups that slander and defame leaders like Le Pen in France and Wilders in the Netherlands. They are the same groups that push for the death of Europe and her people.’

    210. J.o.e says:

      ‘The peculiar position of these Jews is not so much in their exclusive nationalist desires for one state. It is in their exclusive denial of such nationalist rights to the peoples of Europe. For some strange reason, there is a hate for the European race, and that hate translates into a desire for its ultimate destruction. After all, what better way to crumble Europe than to replace its volk?’

    211. J.o.e says:

      ‘ The displacement of a people is no small exploit, especially a people that has played such a critical role in human history in the creation of Western civilization. With Europeans’ dwindling birthrates, the necessity to preserve the national identity of the European peoples becomes ever more important. ‘

    212. SNP/Green Government at the Transcult Reichstag have banned protests.

      This stinks of the transcult that seeps into every decision at the Reichstag.

    213. Andy Ellis says:

      @Capt Yossarian 9.13 pm

      Interesting isn’t it? I answer posts and get accused of over-posting and being like CBB, of being abusive for having the temerity to disagree with folk and pointing out that being against vaccination, a climate change denier or an ethno nationalist is not mainstream and very much a minority POV.

      Then along comes Joe, proving my point with not 1 but 3 posts devoted to “Jewish establishment groups” behind multiculturalism, weakening national cultures, and ….wait for it…defaming fine upstanding progressives like Le Pen and Wilders.

      No…really.

      Can you see it yet readers?

      How many steps is it from “we wuz robbed in 2014 by furriners” to Alf Bairds “Scotland as colony” narrative, to Joe’s latest insight that the Jews are crumbling Europe to replace its volk” (yes…you heard right “volk”!

      This is where the nativism of moon howlers in here and the toleration of it by well meaning shills inevitably leads.

      All of those involved should hang their heads in shame.

    214. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I was hoping you’d respond.

      I was merely quoting an obviously anti-semitic Jewish man writing on the known anti-semitic platform The Times of Israel

    215. J.o.e says:

      oh I should have added – writing about the attitudes of establishment US Zionists

    216. Andy Ellis says:

      @Joe 9.47 pm

      The source is immaterial Joe, it’s your approbation of the content that is the issue, much like your earlier fluffing of the neo-nazi documentary.

      When people show you who they are, believe them.

    217. J.o.e says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Do extremist groups actually exist? Y’know like Isis, neo-nazi’s, Ku Klux Klan, Al Nusra Front etc?

    218. J.o.e says:

      I ask because every time someone criticizes Zionism, an ethno-nationalist blood n’ soil extremist organisation you seem to be intent on tarring all of the Jewish community with the same brush?

      Yet im the anti-semite?

    219. President Xiden says:

      What possibly could go wrong with all these enabling acts which oor Nicola is passing at the moment?

    220. J.o.e says:

      @President Xiden

      My relocating to England

    221. Ottomanboi says:

      The progressive extinction of basic freedoms.
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/06/where-is-the-outrage-over-vaccine-passports/
      Where is the rebellion?

    222. I hope to god Alex Salmond can weed out the entryists joining the Alba party or it will be as f@cked as the SNP in letting in the virtue signallers,misogynists and toerags who abandoned New Labour,

      it just takes one bad apple to get in early and spoil the whole barrel,

      infiltrate, take over and then redirect is the entryist way,

      whether from secret services or just a moon howling spittle flecked opinionated narcissist.
      ,

    223. Hatuey says:

      “Where is the rebellion?”

      Unlike some on here, I’m comfortable criticising the swinish multitude of “ordinary people” who don’t seem to give a fuck about anything meaningful these days.

      The “rebellion”, then, is sitting at home on his fat farting arse wondering what colour he might paint his en-suite.

      There’s never been a generation so open to having the piss ripped out of it by politicians and/or anyone else looking to make a buck.

      The Internet and Iphones screwed everybody up.

      Society, politics, rebellions, everything that ever involved more than a handful of people that gave a fuck about anything, they’re all basically gone; replaced by the most beautiful little coloured squares on virtual screens.

      Before you accuse me of self righteous bullshit, I’m one of them. Rebellions in Scotland were always kinda crap and boring. I’d much rather have an Iphone 12 than a square deal for the working man…

    224. Hugh Jarse says:

      Harvie and his deeply scary handler,Slater, are dead woke walking Captain, she/hers pre COP sop to the world.

      ‘Progressive’ green-wash.

      he cosy wee arrangement has a best before, and an expiry date.

      If virtue signalling was a competitive sport, she/her would be top dog/bitch.
      Ah!

    225. David Caledonia says:

      Groundhog Day

    226. David Caledonia says:

      Three doors down

    227. Robert Hughes says:

      Rebellion has been systematically eroded by narcissism and the mind-numbing obsession with ” identities ” , Solidarity reserved for fragmented minority interests , once unifying factors like class and national consciousness ridiculed as * regressive * and the void filled by Global Capitalist junk and spoon-fed * opinion * .

      It’s a cliche to say we get the politicians/political systems we deserve

      Like all cliches , this one has an element of truth

      Now we witness the passive acceptance of fuckn outrageous attacks on fundamental liberties under the cloak of an entirely trumped-up State of Emergency which as the article posted above by Ottomanboi elucidates will drastically change the dynamic of societies .

      Not to worry , it’s for our own good . The State knows best

    228. Alf Baird says:

      Andy Ellis @ 9:40 pm

      “Scotland as colony”

      I have provided ample justification based on empirical evidence and established theory to justify the thesis that Scotland and its people are treated as a colony. https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/

      Can you give an alternative justification for your opinion that Scotland is not a colony?

    229. Dan says:

      Have to say, removal of my #RightToMoan outside my Parliament wasn’t the kind of #LandReform I was hoping for…

    230. Breeks says:

      If you’re needing cheered up a wee bit, ALBA’s Party Conference starts tomorrow, and you can download it’s agenda from here….

      https://www.albaparty.org/conference-agenda-download

      I know political conferences aren’t everybody’s “thing”, but if we want ALBA to grow, then ALBA is the wolf we feed.

      It’s 28 pages of fairly easy reading, but remember as you are reading it that ALBA people are the ones who are serious about Independence. I believe these pledges, if passed by Conference, will become a reality.

      In my own sights personally, I saw the 2024 May General Election as the earliest realistic opportunity for a crack at Independence by becoming a Plebiscite Election, and ALBA are already doing the ground work which will allow that to happen….

      ”…After the local elections next May there should be called an independence convention comprised of all elected representatives of the Scottish people to co-ordinate and give legitimacy and democratic authority to the ongoing independence campaign.”

      That’s not just words by the way, that’s the colonial encroachment of the Scotland Act’s Section 30 being blown out the water, and ALBA pledging to take it’s lead and legitimacy of action from the sovereign people of Scotland, but ALBA will need a swathe of elected representatives next May.

      I interpret that to mean the SNP, as sitting elected representatives, will be challenged to back that strategy as early as next year, or face the consequences. This is a power struggle. A refusal from Elected representatives to back a Scottish Constitutional Initiative with the sovereign people at it’s heart, will be tantamount to taking an oath against Scotland, and in my opinion, leave them ripe for impeachment, and the SNP, and likely the craven Holyrood Assembly too, will forfeit the batten on Independence to ALBA.

      Could the SNP seek to undermine this initiative the way they undermined ALBA’s List Seat strategy? I think we know the answer to that. They absolutely will. But I repeat, the wolf which grows stronger is the wolf which you feed. Feed ALBA.

    231. Sara@4.33
      Thank you for this, Sara. I am 2000 miles far away, not always able to access internet and difficult to get mail sent. Got your message after scrolling past almost all the others.

    232. Ruby says:

      https://archive.is/mfoxc

      On Twitter LesleyRiddoch asks

      What problem is this trying to fix?

      Joanna Cherry QC answers:

      I too would like to know the answer to this question. Why did the corporate body of the
      @ScotParl
      feel the need to seek such a draconian anti #FreedomOfExpression power from Westminster? What’s the mischief they feel needs addressing?

    233. Ruby says:

      I would suggest to Lesley Riddoch that the problem they are trying to fix is ‘women who won’t wheesht’

    234. Sensible Dave says:

      Andy Ellis 6 .46

      1) “… you’re still regurgitating Project Fear agitprop”.

      That’s the point! The same arguments PF will be made, no new answers, as far as I can see, have been forthcoming. PF2 will have more new ammunition too (PF1 with bells on).

      2. “Yes, actually. We needed better arguments.

      Agreed

      3) Agreed

      4) Agreed

      5) “so what”?

      I would of thought that indyref2 has to be won – or that really will be it for a generation. Going too early is the huge risk.

      6. “You appear to have difficulties accepting how democracy works”.

      I understand that there is an enormous difference between electing a government based upon a whole raft of policies across all the policy areas – and a single issue like whether a country should become independent or not. So should you.

      the implications of that are somewhat alarming. If a pro-indy party stands on a platform which includes a commitment to holding a referendum, or plebiscitary elections, voters either give them a mandate, or they don’t.

      “If they do, and they have the necessary majority in parliament, they get to enact their platform (unless it is somehow held to be illegal).”

      Agreed.

      “Having annual referendums was an extreme example, but in the end you’re either a democrat who accepts that the majority decision should be respected by the losing minority, or you’re not. Democracy isn’t a pick and mix buffet where you get to abide by the things you like but ignore the things you don’t.”

      There’s the rub. It isn’t a simple yes/no question of whether you believe in democracy or not – it is a judgement call as to how often referenda should be re-run. Should a re-run happen simply because the government are in a position to make it happen or because they just didn’t like the outcome – or because there is real, compelling evidence that the position has changed such that a different outcome is likely.

      As an outsider, I see no evidence of any material change in the public’s views that lead me to expect a different outcome if indyref 2 was run at this time. I would go as far to say, I would expect a bigger gap against.

      To re-state a previous comment, It is my observation that many folk are more concerned about indyref2 being re-run asap – than they are about actually winning it.

    235. Ruby says:

      Here’s ‘Sinister Dave’ back to wind up Andy Ellis or whoever is daft enough to respond to the troll.

    236. Ruby says:

      Is this the last straw?

      “Roddy Dunlop QC
      If true (I have no reason to doubt GB, but haven’t seen the plan myself as yet) this is outrageous. The right to protest is of the essence of a democracy. The place to protest against planned legislation is outside the legislature. Peaceful protest cannot be banned in this way.”

    237. J.o.e says:

      Before you have a rebellion the people you would have rebel have to be given a framework for thinking about the situation they are in.

      This is where our intelligentsia have completely failed.

      Unfortunately it takes time to get enough people to:

      1 – be able to adequately understand and conceptualize the situation
      2 – use that to interpret the facts available, against the efforts of our corporate state
      3 – understand how small personal actions are fundamental to large scale rebellion
      4 – understand our situation properly in a broader historical context

      Our ‘intelligentsia’ are busy thinking and talking about shite while ordinary people, the bulk of the population, who need to be given a conceptual framework of how to think and understand their predicament are left flapping in the wind.

      When an arsehole like me who left school with 0 qualifications and whose biggest ambition is to only have to see the rest of humanity perhaps once per month is feeling like they have to step up and crudely perform this task in the absence of our fabled academics you know something is wrong.

      But then perhaps its not their fault? Maybe they have just been fooled into thinking they have anything of value between their ears because of the steady lowering in standards of education. Pretty soon, as George Carlin said, you will get into university just for having a fuckin pencil.

    238. Robert Hughes says:

      Agreed J.O.E .

      The ” All shall have prizes ” mentality has done – and continues to do – incalculable damage to educational standards : likewise the infiltration of nonsense subjects into academic curricula .

      Your suggestions about how consciousness could be raised further upthread are also worthy of consideration .

      Good to see someone actually thinking about explicating the obstacles to Independence , who/what is causing those obstacles and crucially how they might be countered .

    239. James says:

      A. Ellis;

      I know that you run this site now but how dare you attempt to lump Prof. Alf Baird in with J.O.E.

      Guilt by association? Hmmmm…now then, where have we seen that before?

      And whats an ‘ethno nationalist’? Would that be the “British Nationalists in Scotland” based on New Street in Edinburgh?

    240. Geoff Anderson says:

      Ireland would still be “British” if they had followed the advice of JOE and his tag team partners.

      You either believe in self determination or you don’t. Everything written by JOE and Co is a variation on “a leap into the unknown”/“standing on a clip edge, ready to jump”

      Every New question is designed to create more questions. Respond to his endless list and you will get another list.

      Remember – No one who has left the Empire has needed nor wanted to return to London Rule.

      I do know what we get if we stay in the Union – WMD in our main population area, Right Wing Politics like Brexit, Rotting nuclear hulks next to our capitol, lousy pensions, a shameful welfare system, an increasing wealth gap etc. They never mention the future facing Scotland by staying in the Union.

    241. Pixywine says:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QbPV0k56Skg
      If anyone thinks “vaccine passports” are good for your health then you must still be voting Fascist SNP.

    242. Pixywine says:

      It’s time to close down Fascist Holyrood.

    243. Alf Baird says:

      J.o.e @ 10:22 am

      “Our ‘intelligentsia’ are busy thinking and talking about shite while ordinary people, the bulk of the population, who need to be given a conceptual framework of how to think and understand their predicament are left flapping in the wind.”

      Did somebody mention a ‘conceptual framework’ which explains Scotland’s wretchedness:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/29/determinants-of-independence-synopsis-and-strategies/

    244. Ruby says:

      What a weird site!

      There’s a huge story about protests being banned at Holyrood and here on Wings you get someone posting about ‘Long Covid’ and J.O.E. posting a load of garbage about fuck knows what claiming he’s doing the job academics should be doing!

      Not forgetting ‘Sinister Dave’ here to wind you all up but claiming like J.O.E he’s here to educate us all.

    245. sarah says:

      @ Margaret Eleftheriou at 08.46. Thanks for letting me know my message has been received and understood.

      I hear what you say about scrolling… 🙂

    246. Ruby says:

      No doubt Andy Ellis will be along shortly to educate J.O.E & ‘Sinister Dave’ etc

      and the biggest story to hit the headlines will be ignored here on Wings ‘cos we all need educating!

      ‘Hey teachers leave us kids alone.
      We don’t need no education
      We don’t need no thought control
      No dark sarcasm in the classroom
      Teacher, leave us kids alone’

    247. Ruby says:

      Pixywine says:
      10 September, 2021 at 11:27 am
      It’s time to close down Fascist Holyrood.

      Reply

      What’s your plan of action then Pixy?

      Is it true that you and J.O.E are all talk and no action?

    248. John H. says:

      I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but if you go to the Scottish Parliament website and type Salmond into the search box, the first thing that comes up is the investigation into Alex Salmond. Vindictive Sturgeon.

    249. Robert Hughes says:

      Ruby …

      What is there to say about the latest affront to liberty by NSNP .

      It’s exactly what we would expect from them and should come as no surprise to anyone .

      I note you have zero to say about the equally outrageous assault on liberty represented by the introduction of vaccine passports

      Maybe only some infringements are worthy of your consideration eh ?

    250. Sensible Dave says:

      Ruby wrote “Not forgetting ‘Sinister Dave’ here to wind you”

      By “wind you up”, I assume you mean – provide a different perspective that perhaps challenges the “accepted” status?

      You need to stop and and think Ruby. Based upon most of the comments here on Wings, it is totally beyond comprehension, illogical, incredible, etc, etc, that Scotland is not an Independent country.

      And yet? It isn’t.

      So, many here, logically, must be suffering some cognitive dissonance?

      I merely try to help provide information that, we must assume, some folk are not including in their thought processes to arrive at their conclusions.

    251. J.o.e says:

      ‘I know that you run this site now but how dare you attempt to lump Prof. Alf Baird in with J.O.E.’

      That is all the man is capable of. That and holding the record for longest sentence of insults on WOS.

      But this is a well established tactic.

      It doesn’t matter how intelligently, carefully and respectfully you argue that Scots are as much a distinct people of the world as anyone else and with the right to self determination as a people you will always be smeared as some sort of extremist. Prof Baird is a prime example

      That is why im happy to explore what exactly this extremism is that we are being compared to and if it matches the popular establishment narrative.

      I think that’s fair.

      Prof Baird couldn’t do this even if he wanted to.

      What’s that you are calling me? White supremacist? Nativist? Ethno-nationalist? Nazi?

      Lets explore that then.

      Or no? That’s right – im supposed to accept a label unfairly laid on me for having a view that matches the natural real world and im not supposed to dig under the surface of that label for historical accuracy?

      Talk about a tyranny of the mind

    252. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:
      10 September, 2021 at 11:56 am
      Ruby …

      What is there to say about the latest affront to liberty by NSNP .

      It’s exactly what we would expect from them and should come as no surprise to anyone .

      I note you have zero to say about the equally outrageous assault on liberty represented by the introduction of vaccine passports

      Maybe only some infringements are worthy of your consideration eh ?

      Reply

      I don’t have any strong feelings about vaccine passports if I did I would be taking some action. What are you doing?

      Are you just accepting it as ‘the latest affront to liberty by NSNP’ and staying silent.

      I can’t give you answers as to what to say nor can I fight your protest for you because as I said I don’t have any strong feeling about vaccine passports.

    253. J.o.e says:

      @Geoff Anderson 11:14am

      Im honestly not sure what you are talking about.

      Do you think im arguing for the Union?

    254. Tannadice Boy says:

      Breeks 8:45am
      Will there be a live Internet feed tomorrow? One of my favourite Alba policies is to have a citizen assembly perched on Calton Hill in an upper chamber role scrutinising Holyrood. Admittedly I have skimmed read the agenda and couldn’t see that mentioned but will print off and read carefully tonight. 6000 members out of 45000 votes. That’s encouraging. Maybe getting closer to a donation.

    255. Ruby says:

      Right on cue ‘Sinister Dave’ here to educate me.

      V

    256. Sensible Dave says:

      Ruby

      … but I you learning anything? “You can lead a horse to water…” an’ all that.

    257. Sensible Dave says:

      Ruby

      … but are you learning anything? “You can lead a horse to water…” an’ all that.

    258. Ruby says:

      The troll is stalking me now.

    259. Geoff Anderson says:

      Ruby@12:33

      They write screeds and screeds of garbage to draw comment so they can write more long pointless posts.
      Unionist trolls determined to deflect from the real story.

    260. J.o.e says:

      @Geoff Anderson

      You are the kind of Scot who makes me very occasionally believe that perhaps Scots need outside government

      @Tannadice boy

      A citizens assembly eh? Well thank god for that wholesome and grass roots sounding boost to our flourishing democracy.

      I bet you anything they don’t touch vaccine passports.

    261. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland is fast morphing into the land of the [self] righteous.
      Sturgeonite calvinist gruel to fuel those cowering masses.

      «It’s pretty well known that the CIA has been installing friendly dictators around the world for years» (CIA & Dictatorship & US Empire) Rob Walton

    262. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis is quite abusive to most people here whom are trying to engage or rethink their position in going forward.
      Or to any others that include all other topics and aspects of life that we are dealing with through living in Scotland at the present time.

      His overbearing mindset of attaching labels and derogatory put downs reminds me of someone else that used to post on here before.

      From neo Natzi – to nativist, – to moon howlers.

      His disruption to this site is an impediment, trying to set one up against another, and close down topics of importance in Scotland today,

      Alba could be a great asset in going forward if kept in check and not derailed as the Snp have been,

      But it worries me greatly that could easily happen to Alba if they do not vet the members that have joined like Andy,

    263. Republicofscotland says:

      So the UK will drop out of the top ten of Germany’s trading partners for the first time since 1950 due to Brexit.

      This info follows new analysis from the House of Commons Library using IMF Data, which shows the UK is the only country in North West Europe to suffer from declining exports since Brexit in 2016, whilst Ireland’s export of goods and services has seen a 50% increase.

      As for Scotland its expected to be up to £9 billion pounds worse of by 2030 than if stayed in the EU. Remaining in this rotten union will further damage the Scottish economy.

    264. Hatuey says:

      Right, everybody shut up and listen to me.

      All this ethnic and anti-immigrant stuff is starting to bore me. You are all blooming aliens to me.

      Where is the love?

      I was hoping someone would mention the proposed vaccine passports and that someone would explain the point of them. I don’t really get it.

      I want to like the idea, I’ve had a lot of fun annoying people with stuff like that, but delta is rampant and these passports won’t make a bit of difference.

    265. J.o.e says:

      @James Che

      Im convinced that the only way out will be supplied by a fairly tight group that is not connected to the already established political scene.

    266. James Che. says:

      The idea that we persuade soft NOs to yes has had its time limit, this was and still is the opinion of the Snp and the ginger one,

      This deliberate long term delay of going of not going forward with independence rather than improving the the count, see’s many long term yessers drifting away.
      Or passing away,

      All these years we can see the effect ithis policy has had.

    267. Tannadice Boy says:

      J.o.e 1:09pm
      That’s the whole point of a citizen assembly in an overseer role. They would have sent vaccine passports back to the Parliament marked more homework required. Would they do any worse than the House of Lords?

    268. Republicofscotland says:

      As the English Tories push for voter ID’s to further deter the poorest and those who irregularly vote, the Westminster government is to be put directly under control of the Tory government.

      The EC which is supposed to scrutinise and adjudicate on the fairness of elections, will now see its policies and direction come from Ten Downing street. The EC in my opinion is already a captured body and I think it was found wanting on the Brexit fiasco.

      More reading on how the Tories are stacking the decks on elections, and Tory dark money donors.

      https://archive.is/ixqLi#selection-179.0-356.0

    269. Robert Hughes says:

      Ruby

      What I’m doing is all I can do …..

      Telling the * Authorities * they can stick their useless vaccines up their arse , utterly rejecting the intelligence insulting Bubonic Covid narrative and pointing-out the absurdities and attacks on all our freedoms being enacted under the guise of * Safety * .

      Not much , I agree , but better than acquiescing to lunacy and being shit scared to question anything for fear of being called a stupid name by people whose opinion I couldn’t give two fucks about

    270. Robert Graham says:

      Independence Live on Utube re the SNP conference the caption below says set reminder ?

      Ha Ha aye ok you would be better watching something anything on a children’s TV channel and you would probably get more information as well .

      The clowns and fairies who support that well known PayPal beggar WGD are ecstatic look at the polls look at Sturgeons personal support up SNP up oh dear it just goes to highlight their total stupidity, for supporting Sturgeon who has just made sure everyone who happens to venture into to the restricted zone that now comprises the Holyrood estate .

      Any infringement of the act passed yesterday makes it a criminal act to be inside this Zone and as such every person will be deemed as

      BEING GUILTY OF TRESPASS.

      That’s the state of affairs in Scotland 2021 where Scottish citizens could be committing a criminal act by being in the Zone designated the Holyrood estate,

      And these clowns are cheering it on ffs it must be the stupid serum in tap water or the blue pill a total lost cause they are so dumb they don’t realise their brains are not functioning properly .

    271. Benhope says:

      The European golf tour flagship BMW championship event is taking place at Wentworth. As usual Sky coverage very much concentrated on Westwood, Fleetwood, Rose, Poulter, etc. I think there are nine Scots in the field but I have not seen a single shot played by a Scottish player today.

      It`s rubbish to live in this colony !!!

    272. James Che. says:

      A new sovereign Scots people Parliament,

      Would Keep present day politicians out,

    273. James Che. says:

      There are laws against citizens already in place, so any citizens assembly almost immediately fall foul of gaining any foothold.

      However by naming it a sovereign Scots people Parliament would cause untold misery for any court to try legally oppose,
      Especially if you tacked on the right to self determination,

    274. James Che. says:

      The sovereign Scots people right to self determination Parliament.

      Not a political party.

    275. James Che. says:

      Just for fun,

      Did you know that farmers and farm workers in some parts of Scotland know of a grub that eats crops,
      And the local name for it,

      The Torrie worm. 🙂

    276. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – We’re close to a solution now. George has posted all the recent letters on his website and so you can have a look when you have time. Our lawyers and parliamentarians have disgraced themselves again. Thank God we still have honest Engineers. Is it the only profession in Scotland that hasn’t been got-at?

    277. Breeks says:

      Ruby says:
      10 September, 2021 at 11:32 am
      What a weird site!

      There’s a huge story about protests being banned at Holyrood and here on Wings you get someone posting about ‘Long Covid’ and J.O.E. posting a load of garbage about fuck knows what claiming he’s doing the job academics should be doing!

      To be honest Ruby, right now my head trying to reconcile the apparent support for Sturgeon which seems wholly counterintuitive to her contemptible failures as a First Minister.

      But it’s not Sturgeon I’m thinking about, it’s 2014, then it’s ALBA, and I’m seeing a truly massive disconnect between the “ordinary” people and the politically alert anoraks who are paying attention.

      There’s almost about 18 months to a year lag, inertia, awakening, – call it what you will, before the vote from the people reflects the reality. Scotland has a curiously slow response time to stimulus, and I think that’s a bit of a phenomenon.

      It’s hard to put your finger on it, but for example, I don’t think the YES vote peaked at the 2014 Referendum. I believe YES support didn’t stop rising in 2014, but peaked in 2015, when the SNP won 56 out of 59 Westminster Seats. That’s also why people felt we were winning. It was the momentum we were feeling. I don’t think Scotland’s Brexit vote was representative either. It felt like sentiment got stronger after the vote.

      It’s never mentioned, but Scotland seems to have very slow and pedestrian reaction to events which should have people outraged and up in arms, but somehow never does. What’s going on here?

      I don’t think it’s normal for a population to be so sluggish and indifferent to events which could alter and improve their lives immeasurably. It’s not normal. It’s not healthy. It’s not natural.

      I actually think we have a massive elephant in the room. Scotland is ruled by it’s Media, but not just in the way that’s obvious to us. There is something much deeper going on with this phenomenon.

      I’m on side 100% with ALBA, and ALBA’s quasi-Constitutional approach to Independence, but what will make it or break it, is somehow breaking through the stifling indifference and apathy caused by the “Scottish” media. The people have to wake up and genuinely get with ALBA, because to coin a phrase, the Revolution will not be televised.

      I think Scotland is in a lot of trouble, more trouble than people think, with the lamentable state of “Scottish” Broadcasting. Our greatest enemy is hiding in plain sight right in front of our eyes.

      It is my genuine belief that Scotland needs help either from Europe or Ireland, (Ireland of course actually being Europe), and somehow devising a way around the stifling UK Broadcasting racket, and getting Scotland’s people access to a terrestrial or satellite TV channel that isn’t part of the UK Establishment. A pirate Scottish channel, or a even a web based channel that watches like a news channel… Scotland needs something good and bold, and on everybody’s radar.

      I hope ALBA is working on a Constitutional strategy for Independence, but I hope it’s more sophisticated than that, and has plans to stymie the UK’s monopoly on broadcast news and political discourse. The UK’s monopoly on broadcasting has to be broken.

      For Scotland to be so blind and indifferent towards Sturgeon’s lamentable incompetence, t(reachery) and abandonment of Scotland’s Constitutional interests is heart breaking enough, but if that “phoney war reality” is not a new phenomenon, then perhaps this “induced lethargy” also existed back in 2014 too. It means YES 2014 may have been stifled in it’s capacity to reach the population to a much greater extent than people believe. I mean we all knew it had an effect, but Sturgeon’s popularity is through-the-looking-glass weird. It’s literally unreal. It’s a false reality. It the media can persuade people night is day and day is night in 2021, were they also doing it in 2014?

      I think Scotland’s subdued response to stimulus is a “thing”. It’s a tangible phenomenon. It’s the reason YES didn’t peak in September 2014, but kept on it’s upward trajectory well into 2015. It’s the reason Sturgeon hasn’t yet met her Nemesis. It’s the reason nobody had heard of ALBA at Election time.

      Most live broadcasting actually isn’t live at all, but has a few seconds of delay so a Producer can flick a switch and mute someone swearing and prevent it going live. Scotland’s media doesn’t have a few seconds of delay, it has about 12-18 months of it. Scotland’s political narrative is a mile off the pace.

      I don’t know what we do about this “phenomenon”, but we ignore it at our peril.

    278. James Che. says:

      Robert Graham.
      The freedom of right to roam…………..
      Except………..

    279. Geoff Anderson says:

      Breeks@3:16

      At last a decent post instead of the rambling nonsense of JOE,Pixwine, Sensible Dave etc.

      You are on the right lines. Identifying the problem is the first step to moving forward.

    280. Breeks says:

      … And just to add a twist on that phenomenon, just think how the Scottish media is suppressing the fact that Alex Salmond was proved innocent of all charges, but it’s still complicit with perpetuating the fallacy that he was guilty.

      If the media wants people to think someone’s guilty, it’s front page news whether they’re guilty or not. For someone to be “awkwardly” proven innocent, the falsehoods and innuendo hang around like a bad smell for months, and acknowledgement that the person was innocent is only grudgingly admitted months later, if indeed it’s ever admitted at all.

    281. James Che. says:

      Robert Graham,

      Perhaps it’s time to walk around the devolved Scottish Parliament.

    282. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 3:16pm
      OK I will have a look later. We are definitely in need of new media outlets based on principle and honesty. Politicians what can you say?. I don’t expect to join a political party again. However I am considering donating to Alba. I really like the idea of Citizens overseeing the laws that they produce at Holyrood. That will sell amazingly well at the Council Elections next May. A massive injection of common sense is needed and a will to better the lives of all Scottish people and not the few. Anyhoo babysitting with my wife. A granddaughter who is the future of Scotland. Let’s try and make it a better place for her.

    283. Sensible Dave says:

      Breeks 3.16

      Whilst I wouldn’t expect you to “come out” as agreeing me, implicit in your eloquent and excellent comment -is the notion that indyref2, if held at this time, probably wouldn’t/might not produce a win for Yes vote.

      And that has been the theme of a number of my comments in this thread.

      What I can see is the same old memes; Tories are horrible, England rules Scotland, Westminster treats Scotland as a colony, Westminster takes Scottish natural respources, etc etc. – that resulted in the “No” win.

      What I still haven’t seen is a convincing, positive, optimistic, inspiring and economically sensible case for Independence (as Scotland’s fiscal position has worsened).

      That’s not to say there isn’t one – it’s just that I haven’t seen/heard it from anyone of any import.

    284. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 3.16 pm

      If it’s true that “Scotland is ruled by it’s Media…” (which I agree is pretty execrable) how are we to account for the rise in the Yes vote from the high 20’s % to 45% in 2014?

      I’d fully support more independent media outlets, but given it isn’t all that likely in the next few years, are we resigned to just having to get on with it like we did before #indyref1? If we added >15% to the Yes vote then, can’t we add 5 or 10% in the next few years to get us a majority?

    285. Ottomanboi says:

      James Che. 3:35pm
      The Scottish parliament is a devolved assembly, a subsidiary, subordinate, dependent assembly so far away from being sovereign and accountable to the citizen electors as long as the purse strings are held elsewhere.
      It does what it was meant to do, push independence down the priority list.
      Might independence have been more quickly achieved without it? Its non existence might have put a stop to the volumes of hot air expended on things like the «case for» and the neverendum loop.

      Give a man a mask and he will show his true face, said Oscar Wilde.

    286. Republicofscotland says:

      I’m no fan of Sturgeon’s but watching and listening to Kate Garraway and Martin Lewis on the unionist tv this morning going on about a once in a generation promise on an indyref, had me shouting at the tv screen, what the fucks it got to do with you two.

      They don’t live in Scotland what the people of Scotland decide on whether to dump this wretched union, or remain in it, is their choice alone, its got SFA to do with anyone else outside Scotland, thankfully I don’t watch much unionist media.

    287. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – Yes, and we have some press interest too. Sadly though, not Scottish papers this time.

    288. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 1.32 pm

      1) “Andy Ellis is quite abusive to most people here whom are trying to engage or rethink their position in going forward.
      Or to any others that include all other topics and aspects of life that we are dealing with through living in Scotland at the present time.”

      Equating disagreement with abuse is the language and tactics we saw used by Better Together during #indyref1 James. It reflects badly on you and others that you parrot their tactics. Referring to people who refuse vaccination or who engage in conspiracy theories about vaccination “anti-vaxxers” isn’t abuse, it’s fair comment. Same goes for climate change deniers, or those advocating ethno nationalism being nativists.

      It’s not abuse, it’s simply description. If they object to being called moon howlers. I’d advise them to get a life. Unlike some others on here, I’m not prone to simply swearing at them in lieu of a coherent argument.

      2) “His overbearing mindset of attaching labels and derogatory put downs reminds me of someone else that used to post on here before.”

      Really? Who might that be? Do tell! Does it matter though? The labels are accurate as far as I’m concerned. If you and others don’t want to be taken for nativists, climate change deniers or anti-vaxxers then don’t ….you know…. act like and advocate those positions. It really isn’t rocket science.

      3) “From neo Natzi – to nativist, – to moon howlers.”

      Fair comment on many of those actually advocating for these policies. It’s called free speech James. Aren’t we all supposed to support that?

      4) “His disruption to this site is an impediment, trying to set one up against another, and close down topics of importance in Scotland today,”

      Says you and a few other moon howlers in the small minority of Scots who adhere to your woo-woo positions. So what? Neither I nor anyone else has ever said you’re not entitled to your wrong opinions, or tried to close you down. Go right ahead. Stu Campbell said it eloquently, so I will repeat his words here and challenge you to point out where and why he is wrong (or is it only me that isn’t allowed to have these opinions…because that would be odd wouldn’t it?)

      Stu wrore on 4th July” And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.” Word!

      5) “Alba could be a great asset in going forward if kept in check and not derailed as the Snp have been,

      But it worries me greatly that could easily happen to Alba if they do not vet the members that have joined like Andy,”

      Who appointed you Alba membership convenor? I thought conference was this weekend? If you don’t think Alba is going to be a broad enough church to include me and some of the people in here I disagree with, what’s your basis for thinking that?

      FWIW, if Alba as a party starts advocating for the kind of policies being advanced by sundry moon howlers in here, I doubt I’d stay in the party. Somehow, I don’t think that’s likely though James, because the thing is I reckon *most* folk joining Alba will reflect mainstream opinion.

      They’ll be against nativism and ethno nationalism, they won’t accept Alf Baird’s contention that we are a colony, they’ll reject anti-vaxx and climate change denial conspiracy theories. Of course, I could be wrong. Time and the conference votes will tell.

      However, if I thought for a moment that folk like you, Joe, Pixywino and some others (and/or the policies you promote) represented future Alba policy or direction, I’d cut my membership card in two in a nano second.

    289. James says:

      A. Ellis: “If it’s true that “Scotland is ruled by it’s Media…” (which I agree is pretty execrable) how are we to account for the rise in the Yes vote from the high 20’s % to 45% in 2014?”

      Cos they got to hear about it from both sides for a (very) short period of time.

    290. Robert Graham says:

      BBC headlines

      Sturgeon says Indyref2 realistic

      Oh fk Aye and so is me identifying as Ginger Rodgers Mickey Mouse and any of the toon characters If I believe it then it’s true isn’t it ? The next census could have some very interesting answers and real data in order to plan for future tax payers requirements yeh it’s going to be a hoot

      You want to fk about Sturgeon, well Mr & Mrs public can play that game as well how’s about some civil disobedience how would that suit you sweetie in case you haven’t noticed you govern by our consent you and your circus of weirdos work for us not the other way round Dear .

      And James Che ha ha very funny it would take me all day to walk the perimeter of the no fly ,no walk ,no loiter ,no shout rude things at our spineless SNP MSPs Zone ,now everyone would tempting arrest for trespassing ! Is that a legal term in Scottish Law eh trespass is a English term if I am not mistaken or has Sturgeon decided to change the law I mean she is after all a distinguished Lawyer isn’t she ,

      Oops a wee mistake she isn’t and she had to leave the profession because of a wee difficulty sorry about that it’s an easy mistake to make about a honest and truthful Liar

    291. James Che. says:

      With the devolved government banning its people from being anywhere near it, separating itself as above the Scottish people as American politicians have recently done the same by placing barricades around it,
      Did not London do the same with its barricades over the last few years,

      Surely the politicians must be thinking that when they push their ideologies against the public they better have future protection
      As the world starts to say No. enough .
      So NS is follow future globalists idea of needing protecting from the people.

    292. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says:
      10 September, 2021 at 3:16 pm

      It’s never mentioned, but Scotland seems to have very slow and pedestrian reaction to events which should have people outraged and up in arms, but somehow never does. What’s going on here?

      Scotland has a population with a societal tradition of arrested development as a virtues and caring more about trivia than matters that affect their lives.

      It’s got to the stage where people are more likely to decide on the issues according to what some Celtic/”Republican” or Rangers/”Unionist” adult comic tells them what to think, no matter what evidence is presented in even the mainstream media to the contrary.

      Part of it is centuries of “The Big House mentality”, the idea that they should simply let their “betters” decide for them what to think about political or economic issues, leaving them free to concentrate on utter pap.

      It’s true that when those in the Big Hoose employ you directly or indirectly, and/or own the house you rent, you are even more inclined not to want to make a fuss, but there’s plenty of parts of England the same could have been said, yet they never lay down and took the same levels of crap those of us north of the border do with such regular monotony.

      Think about how many take to the streets across the country at the end of the season depending upon which half of the Ugly Sisters wins the Mickey Mouse League. When was the last time, if at all, so many people hit the streets spontaneously on a political matter in Scotland?

      We used to kid ourselves that it was all because the further away you are from the centres of power, the greater the apathy. But now there’s Holyrood, now there’s no excuse.

      Why else did Nicola know she could keep getting away with what she’s doing – just so long as the Old Firm are secure, and the proles favourite soaps are on telly, she can shaft them all she wants.

      We get the politics we deserve – just like Northern Ireland.

    293. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi.

      Indeed that is the case,….from our perspective.

      How ever if you read the Scot gov info you see The great witch declaring she will decide when the Scottish gov goes for independence,

      ie ) she is declaring Scot gov as sovereign, not the people whom should decide,

      For the claim of right states the people of Scotland can chose whom governs them. Not the other way around.
      Sooner or later we will be forced to make that choice.

    294. Breastplate says:

      Sensibledave,
      For years now, I have explained to you that a country’s finances do not dictate whether they should be independent or not, what’s more, you already agree with this.

      At what level of National Debt should England ask for our German cousins to run the country for you?
      I say England because at some point they will need to stand on their own 2 feet when the other countries wake up to your homeland’s parasitic behaviour.

      Westminster went cap in hand to our friends and neighbours because they had managed to nosedive quite spectacularly into bankruptcy, was there a call to hand over the reins and decision making to another country?

      As the driving partner in this Union, England can quite legitimately be blamed for absolutely everything that is wrong with this relationship so you will have to put up with a lot more whinging and moaning from us Scots who want a divorce.

      Surely it’s about time we had Government Expenditure and Revenue England so that people like yourself can’t compare apples with bananas.

    295. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi.

      Meanwhile the people of Scotland should be scrutinising methods of bypassing the parliament that says Scots are not allowed anywhere near it.

    296. Alf Baird says:

      Andy Ellis @ 4:38 pm

      “They’ll be against nativism and ethno nationalism, they won’t accept Alf Baird’s contention that we are a colony”

      Scotland’s colonial treatment and colonial reality based on significant empirical evidence has been explained to you ad infinitum; it is you who have yet to make the opposite case.

      As for the importance of ethnicity in regarde to independence, Albert Memmi made the point that: “Being oppressed as a group, the colonized must necessarily adopt a national and ethnic form of liberation from which he (i.e. the colonizer) cannot but be excluded.”

    297. Andy Ellis says:

      @James 11.00 am

      1) “I know that you run this site now but how dare you attempt to lump Prof. Alf Baird in with J.O.E.”

      I dare to do it because I sincerely believe it’s true. These views, and therefore the people espousing them, are on a continuum. Alf Baird’s half baked “Scotland as colony” narrative might be less extreme than Joe’s advocation of a small group outside the existing political establishment being agents for change, but since they both focus on an interpretation of Scots which excludes those they don’t deem worthy, neither of them are on the same side as me.

      2) “Guilt by association? Hmmmm…now then, where have we seen that before?”

      Nope: guilt by looking at the evidence, and the fact they’re advocating for essentially the same ends. The fact some might be a bit less extreme and not as foul mouthed doesn’t excuse them being shills for the real extremists.

      3) “And whats an ‘ethno nationalist’? Would that be the “British Nationalists in Scotland” based on New Street in Edinburgh?”

      I refer you to the Stu Campbell’s words 2 months ago which prompted this discussion: “…if even the people opposed to that (i.e. Sturgeon’s) awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.”

      Why are people getting so worked up about being labelled ethno nationalists when that is EXACTLY what they are supporting? At least have the courage to own your own words. Ethnic nationalism and civic nationalism are NOT the same.

      If you believe in and advocate for the former, we are not on the same side. I also think you’re only representative of the opinion of a small minority of Scots, despite the often foul mouthed claque of moon howlers who appear to have taken up residence BTL here in recent weeks and months.

    298. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Mark Boyle 4:47pm
      I would like comparison with Northern Ireland. Passed through there recently on a holiday going to Eire. The last time I was there it was half demolished buildings and rubble on the street. OK it was decades ago. Now have you driven along the M22 recently. Belfast to Derry (Londonderry). And compared the housing stock with ours?. That community has set aside their differences and is doing better than us. Their infrastructure is superior. I am happy about that. OK Larne showed the tensions are still there. But they have overtaken Scotland on helping all of the community. We can only learn.

    299. Hugh Jarse says:

      “Moon howlers”

      Here we see a deliberate, classic closing of the Overton window.

      What’s permitted. Thought and word.

      Oh to be someones useful idiot!

    300. Ruby says:

      https://archive.is/3FVPR
      I read this article but also went on ‘The Herald’ to read to comments.
      Out of the 132 comments only only one poster supported Sturgeon.

      This gives you a good idea of SNP thinking:

      emma Atkins
      5 hrs ago
      User ID: 3818808
      Trans men are men! , Trans women are women! , All you bigots need to understand our society has moved on and become far more wonderful and progressive

      emma Atkins
      5 hrs ago
      User ID: 3818808
      As an snp supporter and member all i’d say is that my views are obviously shared because election after election the snp come first which tells me scots are voting for these progressive policies like the gender reforms discussed here , Most of the anti trans rethoric is coming from the unionist side who are extreme radicals anyways

      emma Atkins
      4 hrs ago
      User ID: 3818808
      People are entitled to there opinion and to disagree with someones opinion but not when its hate speech and generally disagreement directed to minority groups like trans are hateful disguised by “disaggreement”

    301. J.o.e says:

      Got a wee request for the people on my side of the covid debate:

      I need a short video or piece of footage that would dissuade a youngster/teenager from getting the vaccine in order to go to events.

      Any suggestions would be helpful.

    302. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Alf Baird 4.38 pm

      You continuing to repeat your flawed “Scotland as colony” narrative ad infinitum doesn’t render it any more convincing Alf. The fact that you or anyone else can look at the way Scotland has developed over centuries and identify some affinities to aspects of the works of Fanon, Memmi and others and draw inferences from there that Scotland is therefore definitely a colony is your opinion. It’s not an objective fact.

      The UN of course doesn’t accept that cases like Scotland (or Catalonia or Quebec) can be categorised as colonial. There may indeed be aspects of their experiences which could be termed colonial, or have similar characteristics, but to try and make a direct equivalence is in most people’s minds an over statement.

      Most Scots don’t recognise or accept your analysis. None of the major parties accept it. No major political figures have come out in support of it. Many victims of actual colonial oppression would find the lazy false equivalence morally repugnant.

      Caricaturing the relationship as colonial is also a cop out as far as I’m concerned. It allows “chippy” Scots to rely on the narrative that they are oppressed and dominated by “others”, rather than face the honest truth that their future is in their own hands, and that the blame for their current situation lies at their own feet. We haven’t and don’t lack the means and opportunity to become independent, we lack the political balls to bring about such a change.

    303. J.o.e says:

      Just to point out –

      There is a spectrum between ethnic nationalism and civic nationalist.

      One can advocate for the rights of and maintaining the franchise for indigenous people while not being an ethnic nationalist.

      What we are seeing is the extreme end of the civic nationalist, ‘new scots’, biological reality be damned types trying to shape the debate to suit the argument that essentially disenfranchises Scots further.

      These people will turn nationality into a piece of paper. Just like with GRA and sex.

      If we concede this debate with these Newspeak leftists we will essentially be giving up on the biological reality that we are the native people of this land.

      Then goes our rights as a native people with it.

    304. Ruby says:

      “Under the current law, the UK Gender Recognition Act 2004, obtaining a gender recognition certificate requires a medical diagnosis and takes at least two years.

      The new Holyrood law would remove the medical element and shorten the time to six months, relying on self-declaration before a notary public or a justice of the peace.”

      Presumably this is because the ‘medical diagnosis’ part of the procedure is degrading, intrusive and traumatic!!!

      Why would the self-id process need to take six months?

      What of the medical element of the transition that follows the self-id declaration?

      Degrading, intrusive and traumatic???

      Would most just stop at the self-id stage?

    305. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.
      1)
      I explained earlier that I was copying yourself as an approach on subjects,:-)
      And yes we all remember to well the name calling and abuse we received from the better together side, There is a “look in the mirror moment” for you now.
      Now now, false accusations don’t win an argument,
      I did not mention anywhere that the climate was not changing.

      Oops there you go again name calling people nativists, and moon howlers like the “better together” group displayed. Got to make those darn Scots feel the force.

      2)There are valid reasons why some people have to refuse any more chemicals in their bodies than their bodies can handle,
      However you group name call them all as anti- vaxxers, shame is on you, not I,
      For free speech includes the anti- vaxxers, the moon howlers climate change deniers,

      3) from neo Natzies better together mantra during indyref1 – to nativists- to moon howlers,
      the Scots are used to being verbally abused by those whom do not want the union to break up.
      Yes we are supposed to support free speech,
      but apparently you choose which topics free speech should be aired under without you’re self intervention of being derogatory or demeaning towards them,

      Free speech for some and not for others without having to face verbal abuse from you, is not free speech, it leaves some people like they are facing a bully,
      But I like standing up to bullies and will protect others that want a voice. Even if I do not agree with all they say,
      Good for you James, or we can’t all be saints, I can almost guess you’re response. If not your exact words. Because you cannot help being demeaning towards others.

      4)
      Woo- woo positions, what happened to free speech? Without being abused or labelled a category or demeaning a body.
      That champion for free speech didn’t last long did it Andy?

      And in case you chose to ignore any part of my free speech towards your free speech, I have never asked or suggested yours be closed down. And to make a comment on how you treat others here is not whining it’s is called observation.

      5) oh no body appointed me as Alba membership conveyor, as far as I can see that position is filled.
      Might be a good idea, the scissor thing you mention as your list of whom your up against here is growing rapidly.

    306. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 3.16pm I have said repeatedly and it obviously is not rocket science that the broadcast and MSM IS our biggest enemy and stumbling block .

      Previously when Sturgeon and the SNP were thought by many to be the party of indy the broadcasters and MSM were absolutely scathing in their comments about anything SNP .

      NOW that we KNOW that there is a miniscule chance of Sturgeon even contemplating or actioning any challenge to WM the boxing gloves have been replaced by the soft cashmere ones by the broadcasters and MSM ,SHE/IT is no threat to the union so it is just good banter with Sturgeon and Co now

      How about Chris McEleny or someone within ALBA forms a group to STOP people paying the bbc license, with the money being redirected to an alternative Scottish news broadcaster based in Ireland or one of the Scandinavian countries to run adverts and discussion forums to highlight the true wealth of Scotland’s resources and what they would be used for.

      Currently Barrhead boy Roddy and Iain Lawson broadcast a small version on youtube called a Scottish Prism with guest appearances but it only lasts for an hour and only indy anoraks know about it even though it is educational and entertaining, the problem we had and still have is there is too much fragmentation and not enough organisation and cohesion
      IMO in the past the SNP took whole ownership of the indy movement and stifled and strangled it in case anyone done anything to damage the lily white party or upset the unionists in WM
      I believe NOW, ALBA and the other indy parties should SHOUT LOUDLY and PROUDLY that THEY are the independence movement and will move forward with every election being a plebiscite election

    307. Ruby says:

      J.o.e says:
      10 September, 2021 at 5:39 pm
      Got a wee request for the people on my side of the covid debate:

      I need a short video or piece of footage that would dissuade a youngster/teenager from getting the vaccine in order to go to events.

      Any suggestions would be helpful.

      Reply

      J.O.E. looking for parenting advice or trying to interfere with other people’s parenting?

    308. A. Bruce says:

      This A. Ellis is poisoning the site. It looks very much like full time employment.

    309. James Che. says:

      Ruby. The snp have got caught up in a self perpetuating mind bubble of we are the “chosen ones”

      Except most of the changes they are making was not in there manifesto or voted for.

    310. Ruby says:

      A. Bruce says:
      10 September, 2021 at 6:03 pm
      This A. Ellis is poisoning the site. It looks very much like full time employment.

      Reply

      Are you suggesting that without A.Ellis this wouldn’t be the weirdest site on the internet?

    311. Andy Ellis says:

      @ A. Bruce 6.03 pm

      “This A. Ellis is poisoning the site. It looks very much like full time employment.”

      Either you’re a very slow reader and/or a very slow typist if you think so.

      I’d agree that there’s a fair amount of poisoning of the site recently, but it isn’t coming from my direction.

    312. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.

      If we are not colonised,
      Why do we have to asked someone else’s permission to be a free country?

    313. Ruby says:

      James Che. says:
      10 September, 2021 at 6:08 pm
      Ruby. The snp have got caught up in a self perpetuating mind bubble of we are the “chosen ones”

      Except most of the changes they are making was not in there manifesto or voted for.

      Reply

      Exactly! They are getting a bit carried away with themselves.

      My feeling is that they are going to become unstuck with the ‘self-id’ malarky.

      Banning protests outside Holyrood is not a good look and that was definitely not in their manifesto.

    314. Pixywine says:

      Hatuey. The passports are the key to the new digital surveillance system. Whatever D variant is a passport won’t save anyone but its handy for letting Government know who and where we are.

    315. Republicofscotland says:

      I don’t know why real indy minded folk in here are engaging with the toolbags in here who keep asking what will Scotland do about this, what will Scotland do about that, such as the economy defence borders etc.

      These question were answered years ago, its old news, we should be focusing on our own government and parliament, and watching their every move, especially Sturgeon and the SNP who are making a lot of noise on independence right now.

      Post-indy policies will be worked out later.

    316. Pixywine says:

      OK Geoff Anderson. Tell us the “real story” who you are.

    317. Andy Ellis says:

      @ nameasnature 5.26 pm

      You’re all such a sensitive we group aren’t you? Doesn’t it ever occur to you that most ordinary folk in the street would laugh at those espousing these fringe views? You don’t represent the mainstream or the majority. You don’t even have the excuse of clueless Trumpists in the red states in the US that lots of the hard of thinking bought into his truthy agenda.

      Being against vaccination and/or positing that the global response to Covid is some kind of conspiracy by big pharma/the illuminati/zionists/shape shifting lizards, is no more worthy of respect than those who insist the earth is flat.

      Jettisoning civic nationalism for a reduced franchise based on ethnicity (which is ethnic nationalism however much folk greet about being labelled correctly) or being a native born Scot (otherwise known as…you guessed it…a nativist!) is not politically progressive or morally defensible. It’s regressive, counter productive and will turn as many people away from the movement as it gains – and likely even more than it gains.

      If you’re advocating concepts that the mainstream find beyond the pale, expect them to ridicule you, fail to follow you and point out that you’re not on the same side. If shifting the Overton window just makes you look like the movement’s equivalent of Donald Trump you might think it’d give some of you pause for though.

      Apparently not. Go figure.

    318. James Che. says:

      If were not colonised, why do we need to get the balls to fight and make the change?
      Something in the jigsaw doesn’t add up.

    319. Republicofscotland says:

      Looking at Scottish news, on Google news, there’s not one positive story from the unionist media about Scotland on it. What kind of people would want to remain in a union (present company excluded of course) when its media doesn’t have a good word to say about the country of Scotland.

      https://news.google.com/search?q=scotland%20news&hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen

    320. James Che. says:

      Ruby,
      Oh I am hoping that they will or have taken a step to far, at some point soon,
      In fact I have started praying for it.

    321. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 6.12 pm

      We don’t. No people does. Plebiscitary elections are a great solution if the #indyref2 route is changed. There are multiple routes up to and including UDI: the question is getting from where we are now, to “independence day”.

      I’m still not sure what it is all the folk who insist independence will just magically happen really see happening in the next few years? I’m genuinely all ears for the cunning plans to deliver independence.

      Joe appears to have some plan involving a small cadre of people. I wouldn’t trust Joe to deliver my pizza.

    322. holymacmoses says:

      James Che. says:
      10 September, 2021 at 6:23 pm
      If were not colonised, why do we need to get the balls to fight and make the change?
      Something in the jigsaw doesn’t add up.

      Just so

    323. ScotsRenewables says:

      Pixywine says:
      10 September, 2021 at 6:18 pm
      Hatuey. The passports are the key to the new digital surveillance system. Whatever D variant is a passport won’t save anyone but its handy for letting Government know who and where we are.

      Erm… they already have plenty of ways of surveilling us, so just the usual pish from you, you science-denying roaster.

    324. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 5.59 pm

      1) I didn’t say you personally were guilty of “all of the above”: I realise it’s a bit of a pick and mix situation. For example many of those I disagree with on (e.g.) franchise restriction share have the same views as I do on TRA. There will be issues we have in common. I don’t really see why folk get so worked up about me (and others including the proprietor of this site let’s not forget) saying that what is being proposed on changing the indyref franchise is “bollocks”, “ethnic nationalism” or that it means we are not on the same side.

      I actually find it quite amusing that so many in here of all places have an attack of the vapours for being described as a moon howler. The pearl clutching would make the matrons of Morningside proud.

      2) In limited cases I’m sure that’s true, but don’t try and deny that there are folk out there who are fully paid up true believers that Covid is a hoax, or not serious or being used by sinister forces to destroy our democracy. People are of course free to believe such nonsense and to bang on about ad nauseam in here, but the rest of us are also free to call them anti-vaxxers, OK? Nobody is denying their right to free speech, so don’t try that utter bullshit on me. It’s intellectually dishonest and factually wrong.

      3) Meaningless deflection on your part. I’m not denying anyone’s free speech. In fact it’s the opposite: I’m interacting with them and countering their regressive often a scientific nonsense. Tone policing the speech of others is lame. If you can’t deal with robust debate, then tough. Don’t respond. You don’t get to decide what is and isn’t acceptable. Presumably if Stu Campbell isn’t happy with the content or volume, he will make his views known.

      4) Again, stop trying to falsely characterise this as an attack on free speech or attempt to shut down debate. It just isn’t the case. I’ll be the judge of what I find whining OK? Just the same as you can be the judge of what you find to be abusive or demeaning.

      5) Why would anyone think that either me personally, or the good folks at Alba, would take the handful of cranks on here who take exception to my comments, seriously, or consider them a reason for me not to be a mamber? As I said earlier, I don’t believe these folk represent mainstream public opinion, or the majority opinion within Alba.

      I may be wrong about what Alba party policy and direction will be of course, but I’ve seen nothing from anyone in the party suggesting that they are aligned with the nativist prospectus for voting, or that they endorse anti vaxxer narratives. Indeed the conference agenda and preparations in place for holding it suggest the party take a pretty mainstream approach to vaccination, testing etc.

      Doubtless some of those posting here wish it were otherwise, but I’m still waiting on them to show me any evidence of support for their views.

    325. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Pixywine (6.11) –

      Thanks for that link.

      The subtitle appearing below the video confused me a bit. It states that Dr. Zelenko was speaking to ‘Israeli politicians & Health Minister’ but those chaps he’s addressing look, to me, like Orthodox Jews.

      You’ll correct me if I’m wrong here, but Orthodox Jews, so far as I’m aware, do not support the Israeli State because they believe it is a travesty of Biblical prophecy. They refuse to have their children do Israeli National service. (The group Neturei Karta frequently has representatives at anti-Israel demos and marches, in support of the Palestinians.)

      On the eve of the 9/11 20th anniversary, it’s important to recognise these dissenting voices.

    326. James Che. says:

      In the years I have spent learning here from everyone’s contributions and stu’ statistic to Robert pheffers,

      Somethings just do not add up from the very beginning,

      The position of the treaty of the union with regards to wether it encapsulated The Scots as people.
      Or just the Scottish Parliament in 1707. Is a jigsaw that is never discussed,
      For the Scots to have a “claim of right” derives from previous records and sovereign right rather than the Acts of the devolved parliament.

      England, Wales and other previous countries of the old empire do not have this in writing.
      Or why the devolved Scottish Parliament with early snp members never chased up the right to chose whom governs us as a people’s right,
      To chose a more permanent Scots parliament rather than devolved.

      Or How can the right to self determination by people becomes surreal when Scot gov ignores the people’s mandates.

      For myself these combined jigsaw pieces do not fit together at all.

      How can we not have been bought with a country in 1707, if we are still beholden to that sale,

      It does not matter the title they gave the sale afterwards, it can not be twisted to say that no money was received or exchanged hands for the sale of Scotland under a trade deal basically.
      Three quarters of the treaty of the union Acts are directed to trade and taxation of trade.

      Does Westminster nowadays consider it bought people in Scotland in 1707? With English gold.
      Does Westminster nowadays consider it did not pay to buy the people of Scotland in 1707?
      For the jigsaw is disjointed,

      The Scots may not have been offered a vote on joining the treaty of the union, but their objection and rebellion to the treaty of the union is recorded in history and defines them as saying NO.

      What is accurately the truth and what details are fabricated to make the jigsaw fit.

      Although some claim these details are unimportant and have no bearing on the circumstances today.
      This is merely deflection.

      Why would we have to struggle three hundred years later to reinstate ourselves as sovereign people if we still are such?
      If we are not colonised as part of the old empire,
      why do we struggle to to separate ourselves from the old empire and its dictatorship.?
      why do we have to beg to be free,?
      Why do we beg to be sovereign?
      Why are we still under the old slave trade regulations?
      Whereby you have to beg the master for some freedom

    327. Willie says:

      And mean while we must all share concern about our alleged Paedophile Prince holed up with Ma Windsor at the Old Balmoral Ranch trying to evade the law.

      A real old Dodge City style gang it would seem where the villains hang out free from the clutches of Sherriff Officers and posse trying to serve papers.

      But like the Wild West villains of old it seems that the law has managed to get through and papers are deemed to have been served on the fugitive prince. The long arm of the law seems to have gotten through with our man ordered to appear in a New York City Court.

      The Duke of York headed for a New York Court. There’s a rhyme in that.

      Showdown time!

    328. Willie says:

      And mean while we must all share concern about our alleged Paedophile Prince holed up with Ma Windsor at the Old Balmoral Ranch trying to evade the law.

      A real old Dodge City style gang it would seem where the villains hang out free from the clutches of Sherriff Officers and posse trying to serve papers.

      But like the Wild West villains of old it seems that the law has managed to get through and papers are deemed to have been served on the fugitive prince. The long arm of the law seems to have gotten through with our man ordered to appear in a New York City Court.

      The Duke of York headed for a New York Court. There’s a rhyme in that.

      Showdown time!

    329. Charles Hodgson says:

      ScotsRenewables says:
      10 September, 2021 at 7:47 pm
      Pixywine says:
      10 September, 2021 at 6:18 pm
      Hatuey. The passports are the key to the new digital surveillance system. Whatever D variant is a passport won’t save anyone but its handy for letting Government know who and where we are.

      “Erm… they already have plenty of ways of surveilling us, so just the usual pish from you, you science-denying roaster.”

      It really astonishes me that there are pricks on here defending, even celebrating the imposition of “papers please” fascist bullshit by this shit Govt.
      You are a c*nt SR, a complete and utter cu*t. I hope you get fatal arse cancer

    330. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.

      You have been having so many disputed comments here, that it must be confusing.
      When you sort out whom said what. It might make sense to me, Some you mention are not mine.

      Free speech does include people whom do not want a vaccine,
      From the previous threads I can see that you do not realise that free speech has any connection with free thinking,
      The are joined,
      And at the very beginning they just aired their view, which is fine by me,
      And you aired yours, which is fine by me,
      However when you downgraded you’re own intellect by resorting to name calling, name branding, categorising, and demeaning people for their views you lost a lot of respect from me and others here,
      Were not against you per se, and in any most subjects it’s good to have many different views. In fact better, it keeps the world balanced.
      But it could be doing with a little less abuse, and toning down the derogatory, and demeaning attitude from yourself to others.

      Nobody likes listening to someone whom insults them on a regular basis,

      That said, where you comment with politeness and good meaning I will read you’re comments in future, as will others I am sure.

    331. Tannadice Boy says:

      The big question is can Stu make a comeback?. Months ago when he moved out I would say 1%. Now you have to be excited by Alba. Performed poorly at the last election. They have my interest now even though I voted for them and was I very disappointed in the result. And I suspect Stu as well. Still put it at 10/20% on his return. Don’t give up I almost did. If ever we needed critical analysis and a leader.

    332. Captain Yossarian says:

      Breadalbane Primary School in Perth installed a drinking tap in its playground recently. It was to encourage kids to drink water instead if IrnBru. The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Covid Recovery attended the school today to formally open the tap. I wonder if he was driven there in his Ministerial car? This is why Scotland is heading towards the grubber. Instead of opening a new factory or something important or useful, he opens a tap in a school playground and spends a whole day doing it. It’s beyond parody.

    333. Hatuey says:

      “The big question is can Stu make a comeback?”

      Of course, he can, if he wants to. If ABBA can do it, Wings can. And I think he will but I couldn’t guess when.

      I can imagine he’d be tempted to return if there was some huge development of some sort. Looking at it like that, low-profiling it while nothing’s going on is a pretty good move.

      We all need some sort of development to propel us forward. The whole country needs it. And it will happen. The stagnant Sturgeon years won’t last forever.

      It’s important to point out that Wings and Stu came through these last few years not only unscathed but completely vindicated on a number of fronts. With every day that passes, wasted as far as indyref2 is concerned, that vindication is fortified.

      He who laughs last and all that…

    334. Captain Yossarian says:

      ….talking about Ministerial cars; does that mean that wee Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater will be picked-up each morning by a Ministerial car? Should they not both insist on cycling to work?….or is cycling to work just for poor folk?

    335. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 9:27pm
      I am great with an OS map and a compass. I couldn’t find the other than media that reported on the sinking school. I am not good at Internettie, global websphere as Gordon Brown would say. Any chance of a skiffy?. Or a clue to translate in Dundee, post a link please.

    336. Andy Ellis says:

      @ James Che 8.44pm

      James..how many times do I need to say this…if I’m referring to things generally, that doesn’t mean I’m accusing you personally, or attributing all of those things to you. There are cases where I’ll be specific if I’m responding to a specific post or thing you have said. At other times, I have been responding generally to groups of people: it’s a short cut. No need for you or others to get bent out of shape by it.

      FWIW I’ve also lost respect for a fair number of people on here over the past months. I’m truly horrified at the number of people in here supporting a restriction of the indyref franchise (even tho’ I’m convinced there isn’t going to be one anytime soon). It’s the principle of it: I’m heart sick that people are supporting what I regard as a deeply regressive step. I’m not alone in this, even if I’ve been swimming against the tide with many of the contributors here.

      Doesn’t it give you and others ANY pause for thought to read Stu Campbell’s words about the issue? I don’t give a shit if people think I’m banging on about it too much, or using Stu’s words in vain but it is passing strange that in here of all places folk are attacking me for defending them, and sticking up for mainstream, civic nationalism.

      You might want to turn your fire on some of the real abusers like pixywino, Joe and others whose idea of debate is just throwing expletives about like chimps flinging shit in their cages. All you and others seem capable of doing is whinge about being called nativists or ethno nationalist or whichever epithet fits. It’s beyond pathetic.

      Anyhoo, I’m done arguing the toss with you and others: there’s no point belabouring it, I’m just ignoring the inputs now which will doubtless make the usual suspects happy. There seems little point in persevering here anymore on these issues, so I plan to ignore most of those involved. Doubtless we’ll all be happier for it.

    337. Hatuey says:

      Yossarian: “ is cycling to work just for poor folk?”

      The whole green agenda is just for poor folk. That is, the sacrifices are for poor folk. The potential rewards are for the selfish middle classes who don’t have enough money to build disaster-proof bunkers in safe places.

      We can quite safely blame the middle classes for most of the shit that’s unfolded over the last 40 years. Without their consent, tacit or otherwise, most of it wouldn’t have happened.

      All of a sudden, we all have a role to play in saving “our” world. All of a sudden, how the poor live matters. All of a sudden they give a fuck about something other than keeping income tax down.

      Instead of wasting time and energy browbeating us with their token gestures, I think they need to consider having a wee chat with “the man”. Good luck with that.

    338. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Hatuey 9;44pm
      A discussion for the future. I asked a simple question of Captain Yossarian I can’t find the media he talks of. Probably down to my inepitude in Internet navigation although I have supported his quest. Someone give me a skiffy.

    339. David Caledonia says:

      More crap to confuse us, when will it end, the neverending story of covid and its rules and regulations
      I go back to the days when cops came into pubs to check for underage drinkers, ahhh the good old days
      Now what is going to happen, a pub has to make sure every one has had 2 jabs, they must show the proof, and if anyone is caught illegally having a refreshment who is not supposed to, the owner will be fined
      Welcone to the world of Alice in Wonderland, the world where it can cost you money to sell beer to someone who is in your pub with somebody else’s ID, Ignorance might be bliss, but it can also be helluva expensive if your an owner of some drinking establishment

      When will the nightmare end, I reckon it will
      end the same time as the SNP ends, and Harvie
      the little peddler ends up back where he belongs
      nowhere land for a nowhere man

    340. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tannadice Boy – I’ve just got press interest, that’s all. It might come to nothing…who knows. Two papers have been following this story for years; 4 or 5 years. They are waiting on the final report. Whether it makes it into the papers or not may not make any difference to me, but at the moment they are asking questions. They know who to ask and what questions to ask them and that’s the problem. I presume they know that when the report is issued, the press can print a story.

      I don’t know if I told you this or not but the American Society of Civil Engineers gave opinions on this school in 2017. More than 40No of their best experts. I sent these opinions to the forensic MSP and she said: ‘what do you want me to do; no-one believes you’. These Holyrood MSP’s need their arses booted at times, they really do. Their opinion was ‘fix this school immediately, or it won’t last’.

      I’ve now gone to the UK equivalent and they are saying: ‘why haven’t they (Holyrood) done something before now?’ Good question, isn’t it. In the meantime, John Swinney’s declaring the Breadalbane Primary School playground tap, officially open.

      We are very close now though and both George and Stuart have been enormously helpful. I gathered my 40No opinions in 6 weeks and they have had 12 weeks already and they’re only providing one opinion. So, it’s due any time. These artesian layers are murder and I haven’t changed my opinion on them in 7-years. We will soon know if I’m right or wrong.

    341. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 9.44 pm

      It’ll be interesting to see just how “radical” Alba’s platform turns out to be, not just on the “green agenda” but more generally on other big issues too. Some promising concepts in the Conference Agenda, but time will tell I suppose.

      It’d be good to see them show the SNP up for the stodgy, neo liberal managerialist grey suits they are. The GC in particular should be used to help bury them.

    342. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Prescient Public Information Film:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q7HkxNhnXA

    343. David Caledonia says:

      The Philippines, and drug dealers

      Yes the philippine forces have just shot and killed a few chinese drug peddlers, they are supplied by the chinese state to undermine the philippines and try to hook its population with chinese manufactured drugs
      The president does not give a monkeys fart about the chinese or their drug agents, this is not the first time, and it will probably not be the last, keep doing what your doing and we will kill you, now is that not how you deal with vermin, its
      not what we like to see, but its certainly effective in sending
      out a clear message to drug peddlers

    344. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (9.44) –

      ‘We can quite safely blame the middle classes for most of the shit that’s unfolded over the last 40 years. Without their consent, tacit or otherwise, most of it wouldn’t have happened.’

      Quoted For Truth.

      😉

    345. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Captain Yossarian 10:05pm
      OK I understand. I ran 5k in 40 minutes yesterday but my grandchild has worn me out today. When you say I have media coverage, well that gets me interested. I need evidence soon. Have a good weekend.

    346. Captain Yossarian says:

      “The Philippines, and drug dealers” – The President’s name is Duterte and he throws drug dealers out of helicopters. He used to do it personally when he was younger.

    347. David Caledonia says:

      Its a long way to tickle mary

      What’s the quickest way to get to Dundee lol

    348. David Caledonia says:

      Its a long way to tickle mary, its a long way to go

      What’s the quickest way to get to Dundee lol

    349. According to the Boss of the Transcult Reichstag,

      your concerns are `not valid`.

    350. David Caledonia says:

      I know the president, he is a bit dodgy as is his brother
      But he doesn’t mess about when it comes to drugs
      Deal and die, he keeps warning them, no trials for dealers

    351. President Xiden says:

      What could be worse for greater Government approval than requiring more Government approval . The Gospel according to St Nicola of Tyranny.

    352. Tannadice Boy says:

      David Caledonia 10:19pm
      I know it’s incomprehensible to you that someone has a different view. So keep going with your ridicule. It’s gives us purpose. When you go to Dundee I hope you don’t meet my brothers. You won’t last 10 minutes. They are waiting on you.

    353. Tannadice Boy says:

      Stu
      It’s your blog you have control of what happens next. I have no idea of the posts on here. Algorithms?. Foreign intervention?. Yoon stuff or saddoes but it’s getting worse. Shite on the pot or get aff. Do you support Alba or not? I favour hoisting them by their own petard still waiting on evidence months later on these posters. We will meet up one day. Your on my bucket list thanks to 2014. That’s a promise.

    354. Dan says:

      @ Scot Finlayson at 10.23pm

      If those concerns are “not valid”, then how can someone be arrested outside Holyrood for protesting about something that has no validity. They’d effectively be protesting about nothing, ergo they’d just be standing there, which at this point in “progressive” NuScotland is not yet an offence…

    355. Hatuey says:

      Andy: “It’ll be interesting to see just how “radical” Alba’s platform turns out to be, not just on the “green agenda” but more generally on other big issues too.”

      You know, when you think about it, just being there, criticising Sturgeon and providing an alternative viewpoint, is massive. I don’t care what they say, as long as they do that.

      The reason they wanted Salmond out of the frame was because he and his natural supporters within the party were poised to provide just such an alternative and critical narrative.

      They saw all this coming and were planning ahead when they tried to destroy Salmond… they knew, in other words, there would be a backlash to their decision to give up the fight for independence.

      And at some point there will be a backlash — despite the BBC propping them up, at some point people in the SNP will realise they’ve been conned and there is no fight for independence.

      Alba simply needs to work on finding platforms and getting their message, whatever it is, out there. Anything that puts Sturgeon in a dim light would go down a treat in the country right now.

      I haven’t been looking closely but I’d hope to see Alba mobilising massively online. A couple of FT people with good Social Media marketing and video making skills could really make a big impact.

    356. Mark Boyle says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      10 September, 2021 at 5:14 pm

      @Mark Boyle 4:47pm
      I would like comparison with Northern Ireland. Passed through there recently on a holiday going to Eire. The last time I was there it was half demolished buildings and rubble on the street. OK it was decades ago. Now have you driven along the M22 recently. Belfast to Derry (Londonderry). And compared the housing stock with ours?. That community has set aside their differences and is doing better than us. Their infrastructure is superior. I am happy about that. OK Larne showed the tensions are still there. But they have overtaken Scotland on helping all of the community. We can only learn.

      If you think NI has changed, you’re sadly mistaken. It’s the period of cheating between the periods of fighting. By and large all the pathetic wee prejudices are intact – reflected in their voting patterns at election time for that new Axis of Evil, the post-Paisley DUP and the Adams-sockpuppet SF.

      There’s been the occasional signs of deviation towards civilised, rational thought, such as Peter Robinson being told to fk off for a Chinese Alliance Party candidate, but these momentary moments of coming to their senses remain rare. Don’t kid yourself it is anything other.

      As for bloody Derry, with their own little fables of the reconstruction c/o that revisionist pile of birdshit “Derry Girls”, if there was ever a bunch that revelled in their own backwardness, they’re it. Thick, bitter, bigoted, intransigence, and oh so bloody proud of it – they’d do certain sections of Scotland proud.

      The one thing Scotland at least has in its favour is that the poison isle’s “attitude” issues imported over here never spread north of Stirling. We may have issues, but the one crumb of comfort about our merrily swimming in our own sewage society is we are nowhere near the psychological basketcase which NI remains.

    357. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Mark Boyle 12:25p.
      When we’re you last there?

    358. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Mark Boyle 12:25pm
      You are living in the past. Trust your eyes or even drive along the new motorway there. Look at the housing. Where did you serve in the seventies? To tell me about Northern Ireland. A wee Rangers supporter? Or a wee Celtic supporter?. Psychological basket case? There are doing better than us. So leave your uniformed opinions to yourself. So I will ask you again. When was the last time you were there. I was there last week. An uninformed punter you are.

    359. robert graham says:

      Off topic

      The 20 th anniversary of Hollywood’s greatest and yet to be rivaled production.

      Even after all these years the truth has been hidden. Never since they started being built not one highrise building has ever collapsed due to fire damage

      On September the 11th 2001 3 collapsed in the same city 2 apparently by fire the third was the centre for disaster control in New York and not hit by any plane

      The third building was demolished 7 hours after the mayor said PULL IT this was a skyscraper that dropped straight down without damaging any surrounding buildings 9 hours after fire was discovered never in history has a building been demolished in such a short time

      THATS why I said this was Hollywood’s greatest ever production

    360. Captain Yossarian says:

      “Even after all these years the truth has been hidden. Never since they started being built not one highrise building has ever collapsed due to fire damage”

      When a passenger plane loaded with 20,000 gallons of kerosene collides with a building, you would expect it to collapse, wouldn’t you?

      Why do you think a blacksmith heats steel before he bends it? Its to make it ‘plastic’ or malleable. The steel inside the twin-towers heated until it was red-hot….the aluminium of the planes melted and burned and the structural steel lost its strength, buckled and fell.

      That’s what has been accepted so far.

      By the way, the temperature inside Grenfell Towers rose to 800’C, which is hotter than a furnace. It didn’t collapse as it was made of concrete, which is excellent in fires…much better than steel.

    361. Mark Boyle says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      11 September, 2021 at 12:29 am

      @Mark Boyle 12:25p.
      When we’re you last there?

      Half of my family (cousins, uncles, etc) come from the island of Ireland and it boils their piss listening to the dewey eyed bullshit from tourists, Sinn Fein apologists and others about how “wonderful” life on the Atlantic’s big damp soggy sponge like it’s all one big fking theme pub.

      “Oh, but Ireland has the second biggest GDP per capita in Europe! It’s a paradise!” Yeah, for multinationals who treat it like their personal port and airstrip, less so for the ordinary people whose living standard just scrape the EU average.

      Ireland and NI have many problems, but the biggest of the lot as those “passing through” making up pretty “redemption”/”transformation” stories because they want it to be true when the truth is it is stuck in much the same mire they ever were.

    362. Hatuey says:

      Yossarian, building 7 wasn’t hit by a plane.

      And there’s huge problems with the official story you regurgitated.

      No resistance seems to have been provided at all to the collapse by underlying floors, many of which hadn’t been subject to heat. If this is odd, it becomes straightforwardly impossible to explain when you consider that there was a complete absence of resistance on all sides, equally, at the same time, so that the buildings fell almost straight down as if there was nothing under them. This happened twice.

      Of course, you’d expect one side to weaken more than the other and cause the buildings to topple in one direction or another as a result. But that didn’t happen. They fell straight down.

      It doesn’t matter what the buildings were made of, nothing can explain this. There’s hundreds of examples of demolitions that go wrong on YouTube. In a lot of them you’ll see exactly what happens when the explosives fail on one side or the other and the structures collapse in a way or direction that wasn’t anticipated due to unequal resistance. That’s what you’d expect to see with the twin towers.

      For what it’s worth, I find most of the conspiracy theories equally hard to believe. Specifically, I find it hard to believe the US government or its agents were involved in any way to bring these buildings down. I’m as cynical as anyone when it comes to the US government; the idea that they somehow engineered this is a step too far for me.

      On that basis, I have no idea what happened that day. I don’t think any of us will ever know.

    363. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Mark Boyle 9:07am
      Fair enough. I will remember your prejudice the next time I am driving over the potholes on our motorway or interacting with our failing public infrastructure. They are doing better than us. That should motivate us to improve. Anyhoo we will agree to disagree.

    364. Dorothy Devine says:

      regarding the protectorate which is now our parliament at Holyrood what happened to the no trespass law of Scotland? Will they apply this to Faslane and Coulport when it suits?

      Time these folk were reminded that they work for the people and not the other way round.

      Also , how will the women’s vote hold up come the next election?
      I suspect it won’t when mums become acquainted with the school curriculum and its biology.

    365. Mark Boyle says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      11 September, 2021 at 10:18 am

      @Mark Boyle 9:07am
      Fair enough. I will remember your prejudice the next time I am driving over the potholes on our motorway or interacting with our failing public infrastructure. They are doing better than us. That should motivate us to improve. Anyhoo we will agree to disagree.

      Oh FFS, this is a worked example of why people don’t take Scottish nationalists seriously.

      They come up with some bloody Brigadoon view of the world, especially ex-colonies, about how much better and happier they’re doing and the bigger orgasms they’re having and refuse point blank to hear evidence to the contrary.

      Tourist.

    366. Southernbystander says:

      Alf Baird.

      What evidence have your produced that English people living in Scotland take the form of an ‘occupation’i.e. some kind of intentional political or forceful attempt to take control of Scotland? Rather than just people moving to get a job, get married, retire, simply for a change of air? In your response earlier you never addressed this, neither whether you tell English people in Scotland that they are occupiers to their faces.

      This key element of your colony justification is blatant garbage that a five year old can see through.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top