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Wings Over Scotland

Any minute now they’ll get it

Posted on April 08, 2019 by

Just you wait and see.

Scottish political pundits: they’ve got all the pieces in their hands, but they still haven’t even worked out that it’s a jigsaw.

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    1. 08 04 19 12:56

      Any minute now they’ll get it | speymouth

    233 to “Any minute now they’ll get it”

    1. bobajock says:

      Clueless moronic … ummm, is this guy being paid to be so?

    2. Sarah says:

      “..devolve ALL powers to Scotland..” ???!!! When did that happen – I must have missed spotting that in the last 29 years. Silly me.

    3. R4 says:

      We wont all starve with independence,but we will have to tighten our belts a bit. Who never felt better for losing a bit of excess baggage. We will be leaner and fitter for it.

    4. Dr Jim says:

      When Magnus Linklater talks he listens and is assured he exists

    5. galamcennalath says:

      Perhaps he thinks the DevoSuperFederalMax promised in 2014 was actually delivered!

    6. Gavin Alexander says:

      He would make more sense discussing whether what-if football.

    7. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Magnus Linklater: one of the so-called big names in journalism, and he writes that pish, and still does not get it. Every concession – few though they were, given to Holyrood and the Scottish Government, had to be fought for, and they never have been given, and, I suspect if Westminster has its way, never will, be given the real powers necessary to let Scotland thrive.

      Only independence will deliver real power and prosperity to Holyrood and Scotland – and Westminster and the English Establishment will fight with every fibre of their being to prevent this. They will also fight dirty.

    8. Effijy says:

      They should have installed that “I’m not a Robot” software
      before committing this garbage to print.

      Could the chap have been diagnosed with early symptoms of dementia?

      Maybe not as he did once work at the Scotsman?

    9. Frank Gillougley says:

      Who is Magnus Linklater? Should I care? Why should I give a shit about what a fecking near-dead journalist thinks? FFS!

    10. Effijy says:

      “No dramatic transformations in the economy”?
      How about England dragging Scotland’s economy off an EU Cliff?

      “No huge improvements on equality”
      Yes I give him that one as Scotland is still a second class region

      “We still see widening wealth gap”
      Holyrood changed the tax system to take a little from the richer earners to compensate the poor but are vilified for it?

      “We have social deprivation and poor health”
      While Westminster has cut Scotland’s budget by £2 Billion we know
      this passes down to the poorer citizens with the greatest impact.
      Good to know Cities like Glasgow has almost Zero rough sleepers and our NHS is the best performing one across the UK.
      We could do even better if 10 years of Westminster Austerity hadn’t bee applied, if they didn’t scare of EU Medical staff with Brexit and Wind Rush deportations from Caribbean candidates.

      There we have it.
      Without House Boys like Magnus and the corruption of Westminster Scotland could do even better.

      The sooner we get rid of the lot of them the better!

    11. John Walsh says:

      It still reminds me of the thought
      “ were we birds in a cage and they clipped our wings, they would still laugh at our inability to fly”
      But the Yoons don’t get it never will years of indoctrination.
      Scotland the only country in the world uniquely unable to rule itself

    12. Capella says:

      Education: Belhaven Hill School in Dunbar ( a boarding school) East Lothian, and then on to Eton College…courses at Albert Ludwigs University of Freiburg in Germany and the Sorbonne in Paris…a degree at Trinity Hall, Cambridge, graduating with a second class honours degree in modern languages. (Wikipedia)

      A qualified spokesman for the status quo.

      Magnus Thinklater.

    13. Calum McKay says:

      No mention of austerity either?

      Perhaps we should take Magnus on a stroll down memory lane when thatcher killed off our industry, Glasgow was the murder capital of Europe and especially when Michael Forsyth turned the teaching profession from an admired profession into a job?

    14. ScottieDog says:

      They’re pad not to get it.

    15. ScottieDog says:


    16. David Mooney says:

      Sadly the majority of English people (and a large number of Scots as well) believe this nonsense to be the case.

      They honestly believe we have near full fiscal autonomy over our country. They think we have full control over taxation. They believe that’s what devolution is.

      After all they are constantly told we are “the most powerfully devolved nation in the world” but we are heavily subsidised by England.

    17. Arbroath1320 says:

      reserving only those affecting such issues as foreign policy and the economy

      Hmm …

      Can someone please advise me as to which particular alternate universe this particular alleged journalist beamed down from to write such a level of s***e?

    18. Chas says:

      Just another dumb Etonian

    19. Giving Goose says:

      Magnus Limp-Later

      Even his writing is floppy.

    20. Bob Mack says:

      Do they actually believe this stuff? It’s just incredible how an educated man regurgitates nonsense as fact.

      Why are newspapers in trouble? Behold the answer.

    21. Craig MacKenzie says:

      I’m reminded of … If we’d ham, we could have Han ‘n eggs…. If we’d eggs

    22. Thepnr says:

      So Scotland has been unable to transform the economy despite powers over the economy being reserved?

      Bog standard Tory thinking, not too bright that lot are they.

    23. Macart says:

      Mr Linklater….Hmmm! Deliberately disingenuous or not very well informed?

      It’s a toughie! 🙄

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Their private and Oxbridge education gets them into influential roles. However, when they get the jobs they don’t have the life experience nor intellect to actually contribute anything worthwhile.

    25. Gmere says:


      I’m guessing the same universe where Gordon ‘Devo to the Max’ Brown never had to cry ‘betrayal’ about the tory handling of the Smith Commission or had to beg the people of Scotland to sign a 100,000 signature petition to ‘protest’ Westminster not properly honouring ‘The Vow’. AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPY EVER AFTER!

      Meanwhile, back in this reality…

    26. Big Al says:

      I’ll forgo attempting to put a link up but simply recommend a book by Magnus’s Dad, Eric Linklater. The Lion & the Unicorn. Magnus isn’t a patch on his old man.

    27. Hamish100 says:

      Linklater, part of the establishments lackey brigade well spoken had it all given on a plate type person but that’s as far as it goes. We should be grateful his kind lord it over us.After all he used to be a regular on the BBC

    28. Whether or not the British nationalists actually believe the tripe they peddle about there being no dramatic improvement in health, reductions in child poverty etc by the SNP under devolution.

      Their message is aimed at persuading those who take little or no interest in politics, that only by sticking with the UK and electing members of British parties into power at Holyrood.

      Then people will see their lives improved under the broad shoulders of the union.
      There will be people who despite all the evidence to the contrary will believe it.

      That’s basically what Leonard is peddling, with his promise to spend £30 billion more here in Scotland.

    29. Peter Barjonas says:

      They just keep opening their mouths and shooting themselves in the foot. Reminds me of the Monty Python posh gits sports sketch!

    30. dramfineday says:

      In addition, a couple of other lines stood out in that column.

      a) “It has become routine to dismiss the achievements of devolution as disappointing, even embarrassing.” Note the use of the words “routine to dismiss”. Who’s responsible for that then? Who started it and who continues it, day after day, night after night? It’s embarrassing right enough, one has only to look at the near hysterical reaction of the press and certain politicians to the introduction of the baby box to be embarrassed – for them.

      b) “but the outcome depended on hard work on the detail carried out in Westminster.” No doubt there was, but I’m sure there was as much going on at this end. Unable to say so Magnus?

      Still the ‘never give credit where is due, it might encourage them’ school of thought would appear to be a considered theme in this article.

    31. Artyhetty says:

      This is the problem, the fact this guy is telling porkies about devolution in a newspaper is a disgrace, many people do not know which actual POWERS are still reserved to Westminster, and Linklater is dining out on that ignorance.

      Wesminster has Scotland by the short and curly’s, and they know it. Scotland is called ‘subsidy junkie’ and there has been a lot of that myth being touted again on twitter etc recently. What they refuse to point is, then why on earth does England want Scotland to ‘stay’!

      Scotland is functioning within the constraints of the British Nationalist establishment who hold most of the cards and pull most of the strings.

      Over the last ten or so years, the damage of centuries of Britnat rule has started to be repaired, against huge odds.

      I am sure that I read that the ‘budget’ ie the pocket money that Westminster send back to Scotland once they have taken the revenues and resources for themselves, has been reduced year on year since the SNP came to power. Not increased, not stayed the same, but it’s been decreased.

      It’s frightening to think just what Scotland would be like right now though, if there was a Britnat party at the helm at Holyrood. Hell the Britnat Tories in Scotland laughed uncontrollably when there was mention of a slight downturn in Scotland’s economy not so long ago! Imagine anywhere else this happening?

      The UK branch of the Labour party when at the helm at Holyrood sent Billions of £’s BACK to Westminster, that alone is just criminal and indicative of how the Britnats have deliberately kept Scotland poor for far too long.

      I was reading about Scotland’s oil shale industry most of yesterday, a site called ‘museum of Scottish oil shale’ it’s an actual museum. It was a huge industry, both for oil and gas, and in the 19th and 20th century. It was mainly an industry in the Lothians in the west, and boy did it make some people rich. Not so the communities though, not at all.

      The conditions that the people of Scotland lived in, the houses, ( slums) the Britnats built for them was an absolute disgrace. It’s going to take a very long time to repair the damage of the Britnats’ neglect, under-investment, destruction of industry, as well as their thieving of Scotland’s resources, ( still happening as we all know )on a massive scale, so we cannot allow those who would take Scotland back decades, if not centuries, to get hold of the reins again.

      Devolution is better than nothing, the Britnats hate it, they are getting more than they bargained for with the SNP in charge, even within the constraints of devolution. It was never meant to be like this as far as the Britnats are concerned.

      Folks like Linklater, who attempt to portray Scotland as a basket case because of devolution can go take a hike, it’s not being taken away from us now, it’s set Scotland on the path to independence, however much the Britnats’ designed it to ‘keep Scotland fast’, or whatever it was that that Britnat said in times of old.

      Times change, Scotland has changed, there’s only one way forward now.

    32. Davosa says:

      What an utter arse Linklater is. Typical Yoon! Time he retired permanently.

    33. Golfnut says:

      I think we can dismiss ‘the hard work on the detail’ trope, universal credit, Brexit, farming subsidies, internet connections make a nonsense of that. Please feel free to add to the list.

    34. Liz g says:

      I think it was Chomsky who said
      “Never underestimate someone’s ability not to understand something, when their salary is dependent on them not understanding it“.

      I think that’s also why others in the Media hate the Rev so much.
      His salary depends on understanding and being honest about what he sees.
      A job anyone who took up journalism, probably thought they would be doing to earn their living!
      But they took the coin and sold their integrity, and they have to keep on selling it
      The funding of Wings is almost always mentioned when they have their wee” not really one of us “rants at him too..
      I think it’s professional envy instead of just plain bitchyness…

    35. Be in no doubt, if Scotland was mug enough to be caught up in England’s Brexit, soft, hard boiled, scrambled, or easy over, or opt for the English zealots’ anorexic |No Deal, then, the English Parliament would immediately ‘take back control’ by subsuming Scotland institutions and services into the English ‘National’ system.
      Our NHS, Education, Law, and all industries would come immediately under control of London, via their Anglo glove puppets in the Edinburgh Brit Nat Branch of the Establishement oligarchy.
      You may recall Cameron outside number 10 at 07.00 hrs on the 19th of September 2014, as the Billy Boys rose from their beds,unfurled their Butchers Aprons ready to march on George Square, announcing EVEL, English Votes For English Laws.
      That’s how imminent the Fall of Scotland is.
      On Friday 12th April the May Corbyn Concordiat will drag England and Wales out of Europe.
      We are not going with them.
      It’s about to get very hairy indedd.
      Where the fuck are the 24 Brit Nat Scots Mps?
      Hiding from the people of Scotland, their evil work almost done.
      It is time to rise and resist, Scotland.

    36. I wrote ‘fuck’. Stuart Cosgrove will be ‘offended’, no doubt.

    37. geeo says:

      R4 says:

      8 April, 2019 at 12:16 pm

      We wont all starve with independence,but we will have to tighten our belts a bit.

      Must be awesome to have such an insight into the future of an Indy Scotland!

      What do you base that claim on ?

    38. Craig P says:

      We’ve been devolved 20 years and how many moon missions have Holyrood launched? None!

      You’d be as well to have a go at that, Magnus.

    39. winifred mccartney says:

      As usual with tories and labour why let the truth get in the way of a good story. Devomax, home rule aye so long as WM has the upper hand and keeps control, while stealing our oil, stealing our seas and burdening us with their debts.

      We need to devolve things like broadcasting, immigration, captial gains tax, benefits etc before we are anything like ‘the most devolved country in the world’. WM, Mundell, Brown and co think if they say it often enough we will believe them. Not a chance. As for Corbyn, every other small country should be free but not Scotland because he needs it just like the tories.

    40. Patrick Roden says:

      Living for many years in England taught me that the English tend to believe anyone with a posh accent must be very clever, even when they are being quite dumb. (Boris Johnston)

      Unfortunately, this belief has infected a lot of Scots as well.

      The problem for Magnus and others like him is that the Brexit and all the nonsense surrounding it, is exposing the stupidity and dishonesty of Etonians and all the other posh types.

      When it comes to understanding real life situations and using common sense, they fail miserably and in some cases they really are as ‘thick as mince’

      So Magnus, less and less people believe your claptrap now, or are impressed with your ‘old school tie’

      We want truth and can see through your lies mile off, because we have common sense, something your privileged upbringing has failed to give you.

    41. robertknight says:

      Magnus Lickspittle chuntering on about devolution is about as convincing as Theresa S’Maygol talking up what’s best for her precious Union…

      “it’s mine…it came to me…my own…my love…my preciousssss…”

    42. Arthur Thomson says:

      Linklater is a Brit.

      The Brits have to lie because to tell the truth would expose what they are – a people who are convinced that they have the right to exploit and abuse and simultaneously lay claim to the higher moral ground.

      To admit that Scotland has undergone a transformation in areas where the Brits do not have absolute control is to countenance the idea that their superiority is in doubt.

      The fact that Linklater and his fellow Brits keep having to write these offensive pieces evidences their fear that they are being exposed to the world as not being superior at all.

      God only knows what Brexit is doing to them!! Lol.

    43. Robert Peffers says:

      @R4 says: 8 April, 2019 at 12:16 pm:

      ” … We wont all starve with independence,but we will have to tighten our belts a bit. Who never felt better for losing a bit of excess baggage. We will be leaner and fitter for it.”

      Are you for real? Tighten our belts? Why would we need to?

      Suddenly, at a stroke, every penny of the oil & gas revenues that currently go directly to Westminster and are not returned to Scotland would flow into the Scottish Treasury, These add up to a bloody sight more than the pocket money the crazy Barnett Formula provides.

      Then we get every penny of the VAT our business people gather today for the Westminster coffers. Along with, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty, Betting Tax, and a host of other taxes and duties currently claimed by Westminster.

      Then there is the scandalous National Grid Connection Charges that electricity Generating companies pay to England and which not only increase more for every unit of Electricity added to the grid as the generators are more distant from London. Not to mention that Westminster actually pays a subsidy to those closer to London.

      Add in the Crown Estates profits for the Scottish Crown Estates just taken from Scotland and added to the English Crown Estate Profits and all that is just scratching the surface. There’s more – much more.

      Here’s a wee bit of straight information for you. The Scottish Per Capita GDP is higher than any other country in the United Kingdom – that means Scots are subsidising everyone else. Here’s a little more information for you – Scotland is a net exporter of fuel, power and food – England is a net importer of all three and Scotland exports roughly 25% of the electricity it generates to England and N.I. every year. Scotland first began exporting electricity to England in 1946 via the first cross border electricity line that ran from the old Portobello coal fired power station across the border into England.

      I could go on but there is enough straight information there to prove Scotland would instantly become a very wealthy country from the day after becoming independent. Conversely the instant Scotland takes back her independence the Kingdom of England’s economy will nose dive and crash.

      Care to challenge any of those claims? Good Grief Westminster even draws in more TV licence fee money than they spend on BBC programmes in or for Scotland. Not to mention that Scotland is having to pay for the debt run up by England.

      Think on this – Scotland is the only UK country that is a net exporter. That means all the rest are net importers. A net importer buys in more than it exports and that is why the UK is up to its neck in national debt and not a penny of it run up be Scotland – yet we have to pay our whack of not only the debt but the interest paid on it.

      Want to know what Scotland’s financial problem will be? The same one Norway has. Norway has to buy Euros that Norway doesn’t need in order to stop her currency becoming too strong. Go check it out – Norway has a population close to that of Scotland and an oil & gas economy not unlike Scotland.

    44. orri says:

      Got to love it.
      I suspect if there had been a massive uptick in the economy then the levers being used to achieve it would have been un-devolved toot sweet.

      It’s ridiculous. We don’t give them powers over an area and then complain that they couldn’t do anything without the tools we’ve withheld.

      Still have a probably paranoid suspicion that EVEL will be adjusted in order to use devolution against Scotland.

      How it will go is
      1) because the Speaker can judge a bill comes under EVEL and English+ MPs can veto it it there’s no point in allowing those from Scotland a voice in any debate over it.
      2) the bill will still need a majority in the HoC to pass unless EVEL+ is instituted where that’s no longer the case and Scotland’s MPs are excluded even there.
      3) the Davidson principle will then kick in where it’ll be realised that it’d be best if these “devolved” issues in Scotland are brought into alignment with the rUK
      4) using the same logic as overturning the Continuity Bill a bill will be introduced in Westminster to implement it.
      5) because it’d be tedious to go through all the debates again this will be a rubber stamp exercise. Absolutely no amendments to better tailor it for the whole UK will be heard.
      6) if Scotland can be outvoted it will be, Scottish Conservatives and other unionists will see to that.

      So rather than the blatant removal or Holyrood or it’s powers it’ll be left in place as a way of silencing Scotland’s voice in Westminster.

    45. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Patrick Roden @ 15:11,

      Actually, I don’t believe that Boris is “dumb”, he just likes to pretend he’s a bit of a “cheeky chappie”. A wolf in jesters’s clothing.

      More to the point, English people (and too many Scots also, alas) may believe that someone with a posh accent is both smart and willing to foster the interests of all, whereas in truth these days “noblesse oblige” is a fantasy and the only interests they are willing to promote are their own.

    46. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, this is another CORE issue, so here’s some Democratic Theory and International Studies. I should be charging big bucks for this. Diddy. 🙂

      Millennial Reflections on International Studies
      Conflict, Security, Foreign Policy, and International Political Economy


      No study of international relations is complete without consideration of foreign policy processes and an understanding of state security, conflict in global politics, and the relationship between the world economy and international behavior. Conflict, Security, Foreign Policy, and International Political Economy: Past Paths and Future Directions in International Studies consists of twelve original essays that point out the strengths and weaknesses of current approaches in these research areas as well as suggest agendas for future research.

      Critical Perspectives in International Studies

      The Two Cultures of Democratic Theory: Responsiveness, Democratic Quality, and the Empirical-Normative Divide

      Democratic Theory and Policy Analysis:
      Four Models of “Policy, Politics and Choice”

    47. Gary says:

      He’s still caught up in the devolution Yes campaingn from the 1990s. Silly sod doesn’t realise he is a dinosaur banging a bearskin drum.
      Scotlands moved on, and moving to Freedom! hope he is around to see his precious union dissolved!

    48. Josef Ó Luain says:

      They’ll never get it … end of story.

    49. John McCall says:

      After 20 years the still haven’t completed the jigsaw – and it said 3-4 years on the box.

    50. Ali says:

      Looking at stats on knife crime, homelessness and healthcare suggests enough that radical transformation is possible in any area we have power over

    51. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      believe that someone with a posh accent is both smart and willing to foster the interests of all

      Indeed. Some coined a phrase for Rees Mogg something like, “a barmaid’s idea of a gentleman”. Truth is, most barmaids are probably a good judge of character! But we get the point.

      I had an elderly relative who would judge people based on them been well dressed and polite. She would dismiss good people as riff raff and other distinctly dodgy characters as respectable. Then she would be deeply disappointed when the spiv let her down. Again and again.

      Yes, too many people see smarmy posh gits as trustworthy!

    52. Legerwood says:

      Craig P says:
      8 April, 2019 at 3:02 pm
      We’ve been devolved 20 years and how many moon missions have Holyrood launched? None!

      You’d be as well to have a go at that, Magnus.””

      Maybe not launched any moon missions but Glasgow now builds more satellites than any city outside the USA. One hundred and counting have been built in Glasgow and launched into space.

      But break the news to Mr Linklater very gently, his age you know it might be too much for him to handle.

    53. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 16:18,

      Whenever I see the phrase “smarmy posh git”, I immediately think of Michael Gove. Wonder why? =grin=

      And yet that relentless greasy-pole climber, well-fancied apparently by the Scottish Tories as “one of them”, could soon enough be PM of the UK. =shudder=

    54. schrodingers cat says:

      last vonc

      may won by 19 votes, that was with the help of the dup

      4 tories have resigned the whip

      Mark Francois is now demanding a second vote of no confidence in Theresa May

      if theresa goes for an extension, a vonc will be certain

      if she goes for no brexit a vonc will be certain

      a vonc is certain

    55. Bill Glen says:

      They make Looking like an Idiot Easy, Must be Hard for them to tell the Truth As it is Alien to them

    56. Dr Jim says:

      Don’t worry folks best of British Morrisons have a brand new advert telling us how great British they are and how they fed us yesterday and they’ll feed us tomorrow no matter what happens

      The bit they left out is no matter what the price of their best of British

      Get yer bog rolls in now, they’re mostly made in Italy btw

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Brexit, dark money and constitutional law derived from populist, majoritarian abuse of constitutional power. Folk need to let go of traditional Britain. That animal died when A50 was activated.

      Citizen-centred democratic theory is dead. Long live citizen-centred theory! It’s time we designed a politics for citizens as they really are, not how we’d like them to be

      Forms of democracy that depend on high levels of public participation and civic deliberation are unrealistic, argues Phil Parvin. Instead, political reform should focus less on increased participation and more on representation, in particular to counter the effects of elite lobbying by economically powerful interest groups….


      Can there be a democratic theory for the real world?

      Business Ethics, Democratic Theory and the Regulatory State: Merriment & Diversion when Regulators and the Regulated Meet

    58. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, this is another CORE issue, so it really is alarming that the press appear to have such an extremely naive world view, especially in relation to relations. Here’s some Political Economy and Foreign Policy stuff, I’m off out to enjoy the last of the sun.

      International relations and domestic structures: Foreign economic policies of advanced industrial states


      Recent writings on problems of the international economy have focused attention primarily on changes in the international system. This paper attempts to show that foreign economic policy can be understood only if domestic factors are systematically included in the analysis. The paper’s first part groups the recent literature into three paradigms which distinguish between three international effects. The second part offers a comparison of the differences between a state-centered policy network in France and a society-centered network in the United States.

      The third part of the paper combines the arguments of the first two and analyzes French and American commercial, financial, and energy policies as the outcome of both international effects and domestic structures. These case studies show that domestic factors must be included in an analysis of foreign economic policies. The paper’s main results are analyzed further in its fourth part.

      The effect of domestic politics on foreign policy decision making

      What is to be done? Foreign policy as a site for political action

      International migration, international relations and foreign policy.

    59. Republicofscotland says:

      Old die-hard unionist dinosaurs like Linklater never get it.

    60. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      Did you read the rest of the article arehole?

    61. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Once again I dont like saying this but, “I smell shite”.

    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

      The Political Economy of Brexit and the UK’s
      National Business Model.

    63. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      i replied to your comment on the previous thread

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      Don’t think I’m angry or upset that you don’t see the world the same way that I do, I just find it irritating that your prejudice prevents you from showing good, rational, judgement.

      The politics and economics of Brexit

      The Political Economy of Brexit: Why Making It Easier to Leave the Club Could Improve the EU

      Brexit: The foreign policy implications

      Brexit and Beyond
      Rethinking the Futures of Europe

    65. Ghillie says:

      Well done Rev Stu 🙂

      You are helping us all hone our skills and review the very things we could almost have forgotten in the midst of this latest clusterbourach!

      Cameron B, and well done you too 🙂

    66. Sarah says:

      O/T but IMPORTANT: yesterday someone btl posted a Westminster petition link about a petition that had been rejected by Westminster as being outwith W’r’s powers.

      BUT the petition admin folk at W’r very helpfully pointed to another one that IMHO we should all be signing and sharing. “Hold an immediate independence referendum for Scotland”.

      It was started in January and has only reached 8,565 signatures. I know it won’t make any difference but it needs more votes to show that we do actually want a referendum!!

    67. starlaw says:

      Dr Jim 5;06
      Should the bog rolls run out, then I predict a rise in sales of the DR. and our countryside stripped of docken’s.
      Being of the age I am I still remember works toilets with the signage . . Because of the war and shortage of paper behind the bowl you’ll find a steel scraper’

    68. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Sarah.

      Here’s the clickable link.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s my pleasure.

      Reluctant Nationalist
      Which is more important to you, your nationalism or your democracy and health? Remember, Scotland has its’ own NHS and Scotland voted against Brexit.

      How will Brexit affect health and health services in the UK? Evaluating three possible scenarios


      The process of leaving the European Union (EU) will have profound consequences for health and the National Health Service (NHS) in the UK. In this paper, we use the WHO health system building blocks framework to assess the likely effects of three scenarios we term soft Brexit, hard Brexit, and failed Brexit. We conclude that each scenario poses substantial threats.

      The workforce of the NHS is heavily reliant on EU staff. Financing of health care for UK citizens in the EU and vice versa is threatened, as is access to some capital funds, while Brexit threatens overall economic performance. Access to pharmaceuticals, technology, blood, and organs for transplant is jeopardised. Information used for international comparisons is threatened, as is service delivery, especially in Northern Ireland.

      Governance concerns relate to public health, competition and trade law, and research. However, we identified a few potential opportunities for improvement in areas such as competition law and flexibility of training, should the UK Government take them. Overall, a soft version of Brexit would minimise health threats whereas failed Brexit would be the riskiest outcome. Effective parliamentary scrutiny of policy and legal changes will be essential, but the scale of the task risks overwhelming parliament and the civil service.

    70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 18:39,

      (Thanks for the heads-up. I just did the same there in return.)

    71. sandy says:

      Think twice re Indy2 petition.

      Wait until WM makes a COMPLETE ass of things. Not long, now.

    72. cirsium says:

      @Lizg, 2.46pm

      Not Chomsky, Upton Sinclair
      “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    73. Dr Jim says:

      Tories and Labour have a mountain to climb to catch SNP in Scotland:….*The Scotsman*

      The Scotsman which is the Unionist go to rag is even telling the Brits they’re toast, and you know what, they still don’t believe it

      We know you’re not supposed to tell thick people they’re thick because it entrenches them in their thickness but the Scottish variety of Brit is as thick as it comes, they refuse to believe their own newspapers now

    74. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      “Tories and Labour have a mountain to climb to catch SNP in Scotland”

      That’ll be another “Peak Nat” coma and gone then hahaha.

    75. Liz g says:

      Cirsium @ 7.56
      Ahh… I stand corrected,thank you 🙂

    76. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ch4 News UK govt to regulate internet , bye bye Wos

    77. schrodingers cat says:


      i think we are pretty much singing from the same sheet.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      I believe that, with very few exceptions, everyone in the entire European continent knows full well that the UK leaving the EU is a very bad thing to do. Everyone, with the exception of a few lunatics knows it will be very bad for every part of the United Kingdom and will spill over into being really bad for Ireland, (both partitioned parts of it). Other parts of the current United Kingdom will also suffer badly including Scotland.

      Neither will it leave the European Union untouched but the bad effects will be much less damaging to the EU. So, barring a few total lunatics, those who want the UK to leave the EU have ulterior motives and these motives are not all down to self benefit.

      There are those who would be prepared to suffer a little so that others they make a total lifetimes career out of hurting by suffering themselves may suffer more. This from a lifetime matra of hate.

      However, the main drive towards UKExit is self greed and the preservation of ill gotten gains that go back for centuries and the British Empire.

    79. Jock McDonnell says:

      I will have nothing to do with a Westminster petition on an indyref. They can take what we give them.
      A referendum on England leaving the uk? Now that’s another matter.

    80. Thepnr says:

      The HoL have passed the Cooper-Letwin bill which now goes back to the HoC before being sent for royal assent.

    81. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lenny Hartley says: 8 April, 2019 at 8:17 pm:

      ” … Ch4 News UK govt to regulate internet , bye bye Wos”

      If they imagine Wings damages them when it is out in the open they will never imagine how much more damage it will cause them if they drive it underground.

      What did they teach us in school? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction – and they weren’t kidding, as the guy said when the swing door hit him in the arse.

    82. Terry callachan says:

      To R4 at 1216hrs.
      If doing a bit of guesswork or giving an opinion ,say so.
      Saying Scotland will have to tighten its belt once independent is absolute rubbish, a guess, with no proof or evidence to support such a statement.
      Scotland may well turn out to be the richest country in Europe, we won’t know what our bank balance looks like until it’s in our name and we control it.

    83. Sarah says:

      @BDTT at 7.29. Thank you for the clickable link! I was under the impression that we weren’t allowed to do the https bit – another error on my part, clearly!

      The petition is now 8,729 i.e. 164 since 7.23 p.m. Where are all these 200,000 unique readers the Rev boasts about, to sign and share?!!

    84. Sarah says:

      @ Jock McDonnell: you did see that petition “To hold a referendum on England leaving the UK”, didn’t you? It now stands at 15,491 – I think it was around 11,000 when it was mentioned here the other day.

    85. robbo says:

      Sarah says:
      8 April, 2019 at 9:05 pm
      @ Jock McDonnell: you did see that petition “To hold a referendum on England leaving the UK”, didn’t you? It now stands at 15,491 – I think it was around 11,000 when it was mentioned here the other day.

      Was hoping for this to be hammered like the revoke article 50 one but no.

      Why can’t the larger YES movement hammer this one ????

    86. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers Though Eurosceptic parties lead current Italian and Dutch polls

    87. Sarah says:

      @ robbo – my feelings exactly. There must be half a million active Yessers – if only we could contact them…

    88. Dr Jim says:

      On TV right now a programme called *When immigrants leave*
      and it deals with the massive amount of NHS staff in England leaving because they’re being bullied and abused by….the patients…… because they’re immigrants

      There’s yer England for you this stupid UK government’s turned folk mental

      One man who owns a fruit farm says he doesn’t care if he goes broke he voted Brexit for the good of his country (of course he did have a rather expensive accent) so I’m thinking not entirely broke

      I sense bad trouble coming in England for anybody that looks or sounds not one of them if these maniacs don’t get what they want

      Scotland must not be dragged out of the EU and dragged into Englands race war

    89. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers, i think it wont have an effect on the dedicated Winger but will have on the occasional browser, too many folk still get their info from the MSM. Hopefully by the time they get the legislation through , we will be well on the way to Independence.
      Dont think they would have announced it if they thought they were still going to be under the remit of the EU HR legislation. Be interesting to see how they decide that a website is a purvayer of fake news and is to be shut down and whether any appeals allowed. 1984 gets closer even though its getting further away!

    90. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s something you all may want to see:-

    91. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      8 April, 2019 at 8:37 pm
      @Lenny Hartley says: 8 April, 2019 at 8:17 pm:

      ” … Ch4 News UK govt to regulate internet , bye bye Wos”

      They interviewed an MP at the end of the item on internet regulation who admitted that the legislation is unlikely to find space in Westminster’s calender anytime soon because Brexit is taking up so much time there is unlikely to be time for any other legislation to get through.

      She did say perhaps in the next session of Parliament but depends on Brexit. So I think WoS will be fully operational during indyref 2.

    92. Cactus says:

      Just ower 4 days left remaining to go excellent iWingers…

      Any minute now the Scottish No Leavers will understand

      NOW they have learned, they can progress NOW

      There are things we need to do first iLeavers…

      Big moves in small steps baby he hey, say yey! 🙂

      Hey Liz, ah put 2 garlic BULBS intae it, oor soup

      Ahm pure reekin’ a garlic, ain’t complaining

      jj Quiz show starts at 10pm, call me c, dude, cheers

      Indy Live Radio

      East side checkin’ in

    93. galamcennalath says:

      WM to regulate the internet.

      They have just had a referendum hijacked by online voter manipulation financed by dark money of unidentifed source. And, public opinion formed by on and off line fake news.

      I hope they include these issues in their regulation. Nae chance.

    94. ben madigan says:

      O/T – A nice wee concert as we while away our time, awaiting the decision on our futures


    95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      An interesting comment from Facebook…

      Bruce Moglia?
      The Spider Principle
      10 hrs ·

      The Kingdoms of Scotland and England were both held by James VI of Scotland when he eventually inherited the Kingdom of England as James I in 1603.

      Both kingdoms remained separate until they were united by the treaty of Union between Scotland and England in 1707, and since that time both countries have been best known collectively by the shortened title of the UK (United Kingdom).

      Ever since the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320 through to the Claim of Right Act by the Scottish Parliament in 1689 and up until the present day, according to extant Scottish constitutional law, the Scottish people are sovereign and can dispense with the services of any monarch whom they may deem to be acting against their best interests.

      Today the problem is that an anti-Scottish English Prime Minister, Theresa May, ensconced in Downing St, and at Westminster, wields the power of the crown through what is termed the Royal Prerogative and because the kingdoms and parliaments are conjoined it seems she can exercise that power throughout Scotland and England.

      It should be noted that the Prime Minister has no power over the queen herself.

      The people of Scotland must have other choices through their sovereignty. Could they for example temporarily remove the queen from her position by declaring or arranging for an interregnum. Ergo no Queen of Scots, no Treaty of Union. No UK, no Royal Prerogative in Theresa May’s grasp, but in the hands of the First Minister and the Parliament and people of Scotland. From there Scotland’s anti-Brexit vote would be recognised as the true and proper Scottish Brexit referendum result, etc, etc.

      Maybe a flight of fancy, maybe not. We have a power that we should be able to use – have a think.

      (The Spider Principle is a Facebook page.)

    96. Maria F says:

      Sarah says:
      8 April, 2019 at 7:23 pm
      “yesterday someone btl posted a Westminster petition link about a petition that had been rejected by Westminster as being outwith W’r’s powers.
      BUT the petition admin folk at W’r very helpfully pointed to another one that IMHO we should all be signing and sharing!”

      I am sorry Sarah, but I will not sign such petition. If dissolving the treaty of union is “outwith UK gov and UK parliament powers” and it is up to the people of Scotland to initiate it, then I am afraid it is also up to the people of Scotland and therefore “outwith UK gov and UK parliament powers” to “give consent” for an independence referendum in Scotland that will inevitably lead to the dissolution of the treaty of union – precisely what the UK gov and UK parliament claim is outwith their powers.

      The people of Scotland is sovereign and do not need “to ask permission” to England MPs for their referendum. In my view, it is not a matter of the people of Scotland “asking” Westminster for a referendum but rather “telling” Westminster they are having one and that is that – we already instigated that we want one and the circumstances of it with our mandate in 2016.

      It seems to me that for some people, and I include on this those in the UKgov who had the audacity to “advise” to sign the indyref petition while clearly stating that it is beyond their power to grant the other, there is a disconnect between the concepts of Scotland’s independence referendum and the dissolution of the treaty of Union. For me, however, both matters are totally interlinked because Scotland being one of the only 2 signatories of a bipartite treaty of union, I cannot see any other way for Scotland to become “independent” unless it is by dissolving the treaty of union at the same time.

      I believe it has already been established in WOS plenty of times that because Scotland is an equal signatory of a treaty leading to a bipartite union to which Scotland joined as an independent sovereign state, it cannot UDI nor “secede”, but simply dissolve the treaty.

      So, I am afraid I have to wonder here what exactly can be the ulterior political motives of the UK gov to encourage the petition of an independence referendum but to reject point blank as beyond their power the one about dissolving the treaty.

      What are they playing at here, distortion of reality? Creating the illusion that Scotland “must” ask for permission to hold a referendum? Creating the illusion that Westminster holds Scotland’s sovereignty? That the treaty cannot be dissolved? That the concept of Scottish independence” is totally different to the dissolution of the treaty? Are they crapping themselves at the prospect of the Scottish parliament dissolving the union following some legal route before they even hold a referendum so they are desperate to create the demand for an immediate referendum to give them the opportunity to tamper with it? Or is because they are now seeing a scary close up of the teeth of the English nationalism beast and the risk that England may actually start to demand its own indyref because Scotland is stalling brexit? Or is just a simple matter of creating an urgency for indyref hoping the UK gov will lose its nerve and call it too soon?

      Because if what these people claim is actually true and Westminster cannot initiate the dissolution of the treaty of union, this means that the only parliament in the Uk that can actually do so is Scotland’s reconvened parliament, aka the only functioning parliament of the 2 that in 1707 passed the Acts of Union.

      Well, isn’t that interesting?

      Is this the reason why they were reluctant to give devolution to Scotland in the first place?
      Is this the reason why England has never been allowed to reconvene its parliament – because due to the disinformation they have been subjected to and their concept that Scotland is just a benefit junkie, if England had its parliament they would have dissolved the union a long time ago?


      I would kindly ask Mr Pfeffers if he could state his valuable opinion on all this. I think is fascinating and there is more to it that meets the I. I do not quite see yet why the petition for an indyref is fine for the UK gov/parl, but a petition for dissolution of the treaty “is beyond their powers”

      Is it because all referendums are “advisory” and not legally binding?

      Mr Pfeffers, could you throw some light on this?

      Thank you.

    97. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledgerwood, cheers for that , gave up watching before the end, should maybe say that if Wings is affected by this planned legislation, its not due to Wings being a purveyor of fake news but because it tell the truth and is a thorn in th side of the UK Establishment.
      Briandoonthetoon , i was at a talk by Clive Pointing yesterday, he mentioned that in the eighties the plans for the outbreak of a nuclear war included Phil the Greek and Betty Battenburg along with two Privvy councillors going on an extended cruise on the Yacht Brittannia along with the great seal of England as a symbol of their authority to rule if the UK Government was wiped out. No mention of the great seal of Scotland so they think they can rule us with a symbol that predates the treaty of union by seven hundred years!

    98. Scott says:

      ITV news at 10.At start Brexit quoted like a football match now in extra time heading for penelities and we all know ENGLAND are not very good at them tosser as usual.

    99. Cactus says:

      Excellent and FOR fuck sake jj…

      Every bar in Scotland should be listening IN

      We have all the bits n pcs 😉

    100. Mad Unionist says:

      Thank goodness for 1690 and the Boyne although some of the fundamentalists are still around. The Scottish Nationalists are ("Tractor" - Ed)s to Scotland. They hate the English so much that they would hand Scotland and our resources over to former NAZI States in the EU. Hingin is too good for them.

    101. margaret downie says:

      remind Magnus about Hitler’s Diary.

    102. Maria F says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      8 April, 2019 at 10:11 pm
      “No mention of the great seal of Scotland”

      I wonder if that may be because they knew that if a nuclear war would ever take place, Scotland would immediately become a target with a good chance of being completely obliterated and barren by radiation. I have always assumed that one of the main reasons of dumping trident in Scotland was to transform the Scottish people into a human shield for the SE of England.

    103. British Nationalist and Red Tory Ian Murray MP for Morningside and The Grange just said in the UK parliament,

      “a democracy fails to be a democracy if the people cannot change their minds ”

      i hope this remark will be much quoted back to him if he tries to deny us Indy2.

    104. Robert Peffers says:

      @Maria F says:8 April, 2019 at 10:09 pm:

      ” … Mr Pfeffers, could you throw some light on this?
      Thank you.”

      You have it 99.999% correct. The wrong bit is the Two, independent, Acts of union are not actually of interest.

      The independent Acts of Union were how the two, still independent Kingdom’s parliaments accepted and agreed the terms of The Treaty of Union. and then both parliaments then put themselves into recess and on 1 May 1707 opened as the United Kingdom Parliament.

      So the English Act of Union belongs to the pre-union Parliament of England that put itself into permanent recession and has never sat again. There has been no Parliament of the Kingdom of England since 30 April 1707.

      Scotland’s pre-1707 parliament only was prorogued and was reconvened as Holyrood so although the Scottish Act of Union would be an act of a reconvened parliament it is of no consequence as it was only the acceptance of the terms of the Treaty of Union.

      It is the Treaty of Union that the legally sovereign Scots have to revoke. The Scottish Act of Union is irrelevant and though still an act under the reconvened Scots parliament it is the Treaty of Union that we must end.

      That information that Westminster has not got the right to end the Union is correct for Westminster is not the legal parliament of the Kingdom of England – it is legally the Parliament of the United Kingdom and both Westminster and Her Majesty represent both kingdoms and therefore cannot legally take sides. Doing so destroys their right to speak for both Kingdoms.

      Incidentally the law that delegates the Monarch of England’s sovereignty to the Kingdom of England parliament is also illegal. It is first of all only English law and thus not Scottish law and it was applied to the Kingdom of England parliament during the English Glorious Revolution of 1688. i.e. before the Treaty of Union and the English Parliament ceased to exist before 1 May 1707.

      I hope that helps to clear things up. Believe me it is actually quite simple in effect but hell on Earth to attempt to simply explain it.

    105. Cactus says:

      Next quiz begins ten mins

      Ye ken where tae go…


    106. Dr Jim says:

      John McTernan has predicted and he says no referendum almost impossible for Scotland to leave the UK

      So that’s it folks it’s definitely on there will be a referendum and we’re winning it by a mile

      Because as we all know John McTernan is NEVER right

    107. Hamish100 says:

      Mad bad and daft unionist,

      Quite a sad person methinks who detests their image in a mirror.

      All that bile in 1 person and yet a complete chancer.

    108. Hamish100 says:

      Mad unionist

      Remind me. How do you get elected to the House of Lords? By what democratic principle?

      Trying yir best tonight for a response so you can shout that yir feelings have been hurt?

      It ain’t working !

    109. Cactus says:


    110. Fireproofjim says:

      The way I see it is that the best thing that can happen for Scotland is for Theresa May to get a deal which keeps the U.K. in the EU Customs Union.
      In that event, when Scotland becomes independent within the E.U., there will be no impediment to tariff-free trade between Scotland and England, as England will not be allowed to discriminate against any single EU member. (All for one and one for all as Ireland has happily discovered.)
      At a stroke it demolishes the argument used by the No campaign in 2014 that Scotland would have all sorts of trade barriers raised against it.
      I suspect the SNP are well aware of this.

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      That petition “Petition Hold an immediate independence referendum for Scotland (Indy Ref 2)” on the WESTMINSTER Parliament petitions website, is asking WESTMINSTER to hold our Independence Referendum, NOT enabling our own Government to hold it.

      I wouldn’t sign it if they threatened to send me to the Tower and feed the Ravens.

    112. Sarah says:

      @yesindyref2: oh, I interpreted it differently. I thought it meant they would support us having a referendum. You could be right.

      I like the thought of you feeding the ravens at the Tower. Would it be fat balls?!

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      In fairness I think Ed lost some weight will all that Strictly dancing.

    114. Sarah says:

      @Maria F: thank you for your kind way of pointing out that I could have got this petition thing completely wrong!

      I don’t accept Westminster has power to decide anything for Scotland either but it does seem in practice as if they do. It frustrates me incredibly so I suppose I just grab at anything that gives me a chance to express my views.

    115. Sarah says:

      @yesindyref2: :):):)

    116. HYUFD says:

      Fireproofjim A Customs Union still allows barriers to services even if it removes them for goods and it also does not require free movement of people

    117. Sarah says:

      @yesindyref2 – see, I even got the smiley things wrong! I’ll try again.. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    118. Cactus says:

      THIS World, oor Scotland, is changing to aye…

      Get used to it NOW

      We have wifi

    119. Jock McDonnell says:

      @Dr Jim
      I turned channels when I saw his coupon, just could not be bothered wasting time on him. Pompous clown.

    120. Cactus says:

      There be Unionists here in golf country

      Ah can smell em like

      One will endeavour

    121. Cactus says:

      Look them in their EYES, unionists, that is

      You have the power

      Rockin’ da tunes jj

      It’s almost midnight

    122. Dr Jim says:

      The Countess of Chester hospital is refusing to treat Welsh patients except in an emergency because of funding complaints

      Better together broad shoulders there

    123. Lenny Hartley says:

      Maria F, they dumped Trident in Scotland mainly because there is no where in England or the rest of the UK that could take it and infrastructure to support it. There will be no limited Nuclear War , the rest of the UK would be wiped out along with most of Scotland. clive Pointing said yesterday that the UK had targeted Moscow alone with over 100 Nuclear Warheads and over 70 for East Berlin. Im sure the UK would be getting several hundred in return. Nowhere would be safe.
      Thats why its called Mutually Assured Destruction. And why it will never happen except by error there have been cases in the past where Training simulations got confused with the real thing and It was close to Nuclear War. Same end result we would all be deid.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      There was talk the UK Gov would advise the Queen not to give the Letwin-Cooper Bill designed to prevent no-deal Royal Assent, but Leadsom said it wouldn’t, and some seem to think it already has Royal Assent as the Queen stayed up late! Beats me.

    125. Cactus says:

      Hey Dr Jim, ahm getting the LOOK, Ah’ve been playing jj’s top tunes.

      Can ah jist say… Ah ha ha ha

      Aide moi Cameron

    126. Cactus says:

      The Unionists be on guard

      Ah Love their pure helplessness

      One will enlighten, them

      Fucking hate the word “convert”

      There are 2 many religious connotations

      There, Ah’ve said it

      Where ahm aye?




    127. yesindyref2 says:

      Is that you Cactus with the hair?

    128. Cactus says:

      Cheers yesindyre2, na na na na na

      You called it, ahm headin’ hame (tae post mair madness)

      These guys arra barrel

      Ain’t laughing…

      Roxette 🙂


    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      I like to experiment, so I’ve been combining different bodies of theory in the hope of finding something illuminating, as you do. Anyhoo, I thought you might be interested in what happens when you combine Democratic Theory with Public Administrative Theory and Practice Theory. You’ll not find this in the British Unionist Media. 😉

      Development of Theory of Democratic Administration

      The Theory and Practice of Political Law, Second Edition

      Theories for research in Public Administration

      Reimagining Performance in Public Administration Theory and Practice: Creating a Democratic Performativity of Care and Hope

    130. Liz g says:

      Lot’s of garlic in oor soup… Yum 🙂
      We jist need some chewing parsley and we will soon be minty fresh again…
      But in the mean time if you are seeing Unionists get up close for a polite conversation…. And breathe…. 🙂

    131. Cactus says:

      That’s me back within wifi range Liz, the UK is fucked

      Unionist thinkers can be a scary experience

      In the flesh like, ridin’ the coast afore the caves

      One is an enlightener


    132. Cactus says:

      That’s the key Liz…

      When aye talk with perceived ukUnionists

    133. Cactus says:

      Aye smile

      (keyboard went auto there)


    134. Cactus says:

      Hey iScotland

      Just 3 days left to go NOW


    135. Cactus says:

      Hey Scotland, what is your plans for Friday the 12th April 2019?

      Saturday knows the answer

      As does Chris

    136. Cactus says:

      Ah new feeling came over me ra night Liz… whilst ah was watching ‘Splash’ earlier on ah guest holiday television… did you see it?

      John Candy wae Tam Hanks et the mermaid:


    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s what happens if you add the concept of “Democratic Moral Sovereignty” to that mix. Nice. 😉

      Democratic founding: We the people and the others


      In democratic theory, it goes without saying that people should establish their own political orders. However, the making of states or constitutions sometimes involves people with no intention of actually joining the new political order, as in the U.S.-led regime change of Afghanistan and Iraq or the UN administration of postconflict Kosovo and Timor-Leste. Could such policies be reconciled with the conviction that people should establish their own political orders?

      In this paper I will develop an affirmative answer to this question. The founding of a state is democratic—that is, constituted by the people subject to this foundational decision—when agreed to by as many persons as possible within and beyond the boundaries of the state to be founded.

      Hence, the very sense in which a state may have been democratically founded in the past presupposes an involvement of people beyond its current boundaries. Moreover, the moral values inherent in the practice of people constituting their own states do not imply restriction of power to the group of future citizens but protection of their autonomy, and, properly understood, the realization of this autonomy is contingent on people who will remain outside the state once founded.

      Democratic theory and indices of democratization

      The Ups and Downs of Bureaucratic Organization

      Human rights and democracy in a global context: decoupling and recoupling

    138. Mad Unionist says:

      Hamish 100. You sound desperate for some guidance in life. Cactus. The 12th July is a great day in the British calender. Our ancestors got rid of the dead wood and the pervert Vatican Church from our Scottish soil!

    139. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ Mad Unionist like

      Ah didnae expect ye tae call upon me

      How ye doin’ pal?

    140. Cactus says:

      Gonna nip outside Mad Unionist furra ciggy, bud

      Ahm intrigued


    141. Cactus says:

      Ahm back Mad Unionist ~

      How do you do…

      What do you LOVE about THIS ukUnion?

      Do you think May will revoke Article 50, before Friday April ’19?

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mad Unionist
      So you want to banish the original church of Scotland? That sounds a bit bigoted and exclusionary to me. Not noticeably a ‘moderate-left’ attitude, frankly.

      International Human Rights and Political Equality: Some Implications for Global Democracy


      International human rights are often considered as evidence of the existence or at least of the possibility of global democracy and citizenship (see, e.g., Simmons 2001, 179; Gould 2004; Erman 2005; Habermas 2011).1 This is sometimes explained by reference to the possible grounding of democracy and human rights in a common value: equality (see, e.g., Christiano 2008; Brettschneider 2007). This common egalitarian dimension rather than grounding in equality needs to be argued for, however.

      But something that is even more problematic is that it is readily assumed in those accounts that the relationship between democracy and human rights can be transposed to the global level and be activated anew horizontally and outside the boundaries of domestic or regional democratic polities.2

      A lot hinges on this debate, however, on what equality and, more specifically in this context, political equality can and ought to mean when applied to global or transnational law and institutions. This is a very difficult question that democratic theorists have started addressing lately (see, e.g., Christiano 2010; Pettit 2010) and that is discussed by different contributions in this volume.

      European Union Moral Status Political Community Legal Order Moral Worth

    143. Cactus says:

      Feel THIS pal…

      Get into Glasgow

    144. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Colin Macfarlane.

    145. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ Cameron, how ye doin’ bud, keep doin’ whit you’re doin’ dude, fucking excellent 😉

      Fuck those wanks

    146. Cactus says:

      Let’s change this beat back, return to it like

      The end of the UK is nigh…

      Aye dedicate the above to you Mad Unionist


    147. Cactus says:

      Love Wings, we got everythings

    148. Cactus says:

      We could have it all, Scotland

    149. Cactus says:

      Whose in the Wings Hoose (3 days to go) Scotland

      Keepin’ it real since ’14

      Mornin’ Tuesday

    150. Cactus says:

      What do you want Scotland?

      Well tell me what do you need

      We knows

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Morning Cactus, I’m glad you liked the attitude. Here’s a base for a particularly positive attitude, from the Centre for Political Theory and Global Justice. That’s positive not positivism. Positivism in International Relations is bad, mk. 😉

      In Defence of Traditional Theories of Human Rights
      Alasdair Cochrane

      Human Rights as Moral Rights
      Traditional theories of human rights consider human rights to be essentially moral rights. This is not to deny that human rights can sometimes be enacted legally and thus become legal rights. Rather, it is to say that the existence of a human right does not depend on it being established by law. As moral rights, human rights are held by all human beings on the basis of some normative justification, and irrespective of whether they live under a government which recognises those rights.

      To put the link plainly, all human rights are moral rights, but not all human rights are legal rights. As such, the essential ingredient of human rights is their moral basis. In this section I want to argue that there are three important advantages to conceiving of human rights as essentially moral rights….</blockquoteL!/file/CochraneInDefenceofTraditionalTheoriesofHumanRights.pdf

    152. Cactus says:

      Did aye destroy you before hehe

      Help yerself

    153. Cactus says:

      Global Justice

      I like the sound of that Cameron

    154. Cactus says:

      Ahm missin’ mah buddy Mad Unionist ~

      We were beginning tae get a thing a gaun on

      Ah miss the madness

      LOVE you babes X

    155. Cactus says:

      S’cool ah’ll catch up wae ye next time neighbour

      Have an excellent nigh end of uk being

      Comin’ tae a city near U

    156. Cactus says:

      Lately, ah feel like THIS…

      Do you ever do?

    157. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Peace always. 😉

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some thoughts on the quality of story telling.

      Kurt Vonnegut, Shape of Stories

    159. Cactus says:


      Aye ahm watching Kurt

      THIS TIME is amazing!

    160. Cactus says:

      Be assured

      Aye believe, there are plans in place

      To restore iScotland

    161. Cactus says:

      THIS is madness, we are 3 days away frae oblivion

      We need tae save the kingdom & country of Scotland

      This year

    162. Cactus says:

      Speaking of

      Fuck being oblivious to it all

      Y’all offended like hehe

      Oh my goodness (auld OMG)

    163. Cactus says:

      We’re gaun deep down People… donkey on the edge

      Eddie knows

    164. Cactus says:

      Your choice everybuddy

      Any minute now…

      THIS may duplicate (ah fucked it up 1st time round)

    165. Cactus says:

      He he ha ha he, ha ha he he hey hey, laters Mad Unionist ~

      Awwwwwe… ah’ve rattled it again, Yes!

      You should try it sometime lurkers ’19

      Homer knows

    166. Cactus says:

      Peace Always to you too, Reluctant Nationalist ~

      Smallaxe knows


    167. Cactus says:

      Have ye ever unfolded a black dragon before?

      Sounds like Einaudi on the piano hammers btw

    168. Breeks says:

      galamcennalath says:
      8 April, 2019 at 9:55 pm
      WM to regulate the internet….

      Says the Government where mainstream right wing hate speech in the Mail and Telegraph has had a significant impact ramping up xenophobic hysteria and BritNat populism, brought hate crime out of the woodwork, and brought the UK to point of a catastrophic Brexit. But yeah, let’s not dwell on that dribbling rabid hatefest in the deadwood Press and instead let’s all target the beastly Internet…

      If the UK government can’t even reign in the conduct and bigotry of the “newspapers”, nor indeed the BBC and Question Time, it doesn’t exactly bode well for the future of balance and free speech on the internet.

      Thankfully however, we can hope that Westminster will demonstrate is customary competence in strategic thinking whenever it plans to “take control” of something, and it will continue to fail dismally in its objectives.

      The air in a free Scotland will be so much cleaner and healthier once these toxins from the BritNat media and gobshite UK Government are removed and replaced with a more diligent, constructive and progressive media.

    169. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sarah says: 8 April, 2019 at 11:25 pm:

      @yesindyref2: oh, I interpreted it differently. I thought it meant ” … I like the thought of you feeding the ravens at the Tower. Would it be fat balls?!

      Aye! And they would be yesindyref2’s fat balls – along wi the rest o yesindyref2.

    170. Breeks says:

      YouTube links don’t seem to work for me, but google Kelvin Doe wows MIT.

      He’s a young lad from Sierra Leone who does remarkable things with very little resources.

      He was spotted because somebody ran a Summer Innovation camp for youngsters..

      Wouldn’t it be great if Scotland, once independent with two Capital Wealth Funds for both oil and renewables, set aside a portion of that wealth and ran a Scottish Innovation Camp for youngsters from all over the world? Sierra Leonne, China, Japan, not just rich places, but poor and deprived places where kids have no chance. If you’re smart, you can come.

      Imagine, a wee Scottish village with infrastructure, facilities and support for kids to have fun, but harness their potential and bounce freestyle ideas off their peers. Whatever they need they can get, but it’s throwaway money, there’s no financial imperative to shut down ideas. Not a blank cheque, but the ideas don’t have to be financially viable.

      Not a university, but a playground for kids with innovative ideas and super fast learning capacities. You could almost, (forgive me) do a tech X factor, and use it to find kids with that spark in their heads that might be capable of the incredible. They meet other kids like themselves and form friendships with people who think like they do.

      Come on Scotland. Let us throw off this Union and get our wee country buzzing. Let’s get our wee country up near the front of cutting edge innovations and outside the box thinking.

    171. Ken500 says:

      Just another craven liar.

      Considering their foreign and economic policies cost Scotland £Billions. Illegally and secretly taking £Billions out of Scotland.

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion has cost Scotland £Billions. Paying for Hinkley Point, HS2 and Trident has cost Scotland £Billions which could be better spent.

      The mismanagement of the Oil & Gas sector. High Tory taxes when the price has fallen. Cost Scotland £Billions and 120,000 jobs. Mismanagement of the farming industry losing migrant workers. £Millions taken in CAP payments intended for poorer Scottish farmers. The fishing industry mismanaged for years. Multimillion owners claiming poverty. Discarding fish for years with poor conditions. Leading to a shortage and quotas. Tories mismanaging the industry for years. A Home Counties fishing Minister. Instead of using bigger nets and having better terms and conditions. Like Norway keeping up the stock.

      Total mismanagement by Westminster unionists. The only time the Scottish population increased was with Devolution. The economy doing better since 2007 when the SNP came to power. The only time that Scotland has had fuller lower unemployment than the rest of the UK. Forth Crossing, ARPR built after years of opposition. Cutting emission, journey times and expense by 2/3. Brilliant. Railways build and improvements. Education Uni college and nurseries supported. Social care etc. Despite the unionist councils waste and mismanagement.

      The Scottish Budget has been cut by Westminster 10% a year. Now £3Billion short. Despite the fact the Scotttish tax revenues have always increased year on year. Austerity is absolutely unneccessary. Cutting monies from the most in need causing poverty and an imbalance in society. Less cohesion. Illegally sanctioning and starving people to give monies to the better off and wasting it on worthless projects. Even cutting monies from women and children on ‘Mother’s Day’. Absolutely disgraceful.

      The Brexit mess and shambles is almost unprecedented. The thing that aided the UK economy after the devastation of Thatcher was EU membership. The nearest biggest market, fairer trade, good social Laws, stopping war and starvation in the world. A force for good helping poorer countries and stopping wars. The UK/US (France) causing chaos in the world, especially in the Middle East. A total force for bad. A continuing disgrace.

      The sooner Scotland is Independent the better for the world. Break Westminster power to cause havoc in the world. Vote for SNP/SNP and for Independence. Get someone else to vote too. It will be won. For a better peaceful more prosperous, equal world.

    172. Liz g says:

      ROBERT PEFFERS @ 7.56
      Yesindyref2 hasn’t “meddled” wi you….
      So stoap meddling wi him, especially his Balls ….

    173. galamcennalath says:

      The Telegraph says this morning, the article is behind their paywall ….

      ” Britons are split down the middle on whether the UK should leave the European Union without a deal – or scrap Brexit altogether, according to new poll for The Telegraph.

      The study by ComRes found that 38 per cent of Britons back leaving the EU this Friday without a trade deal, while 40 per cent backed revoking Article 50 and remaining in the EU.”

      Not only is there disorganised ineffectual government but the UK is now split into two extreme camps with no likely comprise between those positions which would suit either side. The choice is disappoint around half by satisfying the rest, or disappoint almost all with compromise!

      Driving everyone to the edges has been achieved by the antics of politicians and media.

      What next? Three options – kick the can further, crash, or cancel.

      I think it will be can kicking, or perhaps crash and burn on Friday.

    174. McBoxheid says:

      Dr Jim says:
      8 April, 2019 at 7:57 pm

      Tories and Labour have a mountain to climb to catch SNP in Scotland:….*The Scotsman*

      The Scotsman which is the Unionist go to rag is even telling the Brits they’re toast, and you know what, they still don’t believe it

      … they refuse to believe their own newspapers now
      that shows a modicum of understanding, no?
      No. Their disbelief is derived from a refusal to believe the union is failing.
      When the penny does drop, e.g. after the results of Indyref2, they will still try to deny it, become agressive, or need therapy. Just as well SNHS is the best health service in the UK.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      This, from three weeks ago, seems to have gone unnoticed by both the BBC and STV not to mention the dead tree press. I wonder why:-

    176. galamcennalath says:

      The EU say there must be a firm plan before they grant an extension.

      Let’s face it, there isn’t a hope in hell that May will actually have a credible plan in the next day or so! So, are the EU bluffing and they will extend just to avoid ‘no deal’?

    177. Sinky says:

      Well worth studying this Politico-Hanbury poll and graphs as a response to the increasing Scotland In Union Green Ink letter writers who seem to be getting more hysterical recently. Although typically for London centric organisations they ignores the SNP aspect in accompanying text.

      The SNP is seen as being more in touch with voters and much more competent than Tories and Labour.

    178. Breeks says:

      The Cooper Letwin Bill …. am I missing something?

      May has been obliged, indeed compelled, to seek an extension of Article 50, but crucially, the EU remains free to say “no get stuffed”, if and when she does. So the Cooper Letwin Bill is literally a waste of time??? Mrs May must now whistle in pot the wind, or else… err, nothing.

      It seems UK Brexit negotiations have spent 3 years trying to reinvent the wheel, over, and over, and over again, but Theresa May is off to Brussels to tout her patented idea for a Mk318 Square Wheel, on the misguided belief that in the land of round wheels the square wheel must be king.

      What do the bookies say about Macron just ending this with a veto?

    179. Breeks says:

      *In pot the wind?

      What gibberish is this? I typed into the wind.

    180. Sinky says:

      Thanks to

      there is a user friendly interpretation of the Politico poll

      “So, roughly speaking and with a wee bit of presumption, in Scotland, just over 20% of people think the Tories ARE in touch and only about 30% think Labour are BUT 60% think the SNP are in touch. That’s a massive lead.
      And, 70% think the Tories ARE only for the rich, more than 20% think Labour are only for the rich (20%! Anas, Kate!) while only 10% think the SNP are.

      On competence, the SNP streak ahead at over 60% with Labour considered competent by less than 40% and the Tories under Carlaw at a miserable 30%. Labour will be pleased by that win over the Tories.

    181. Ghillie says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.25 pm (just over 12 hours ago!)

      You are a hero 🙂 Thank you so very much for the link to our First Minister taking part in another gathering of the leaders of the Artic Circle Nations.

      Now called The New North 🙂

      How cool is that?!!

      It is so refreshing to hear these World leaders speaking on a subject of all humanity importance, climate change, and what they are doing about it, with such mutual respect and mutual interest.

      THAT is how we change the World 🙂

      Thank you Robert, a good heads up =)

    182. mike cassidy says:


      This bookmaker doesn’t think we’ll be out by Friday.

      9/1 we’ll be out.

      1/33 we’ll still be in (wouldn’t archive)

    183. Ghillie says:

      Eh no Breeks. It was Labour claiming to reinvent the wheel. Joanna Cherry had already put forward the motion to prevent a No Deal Brexit and Labour blocked it. Then a few days later tried to claim it as their own. Miserable wee bunch of desperate wannabes.

    184. Ghillie says:

      Breeks, I do agree, Tereeza’s deal is a defo square wheel =)

    185. Ghillie says:

      Sinky @ 9.32 am

      Go back folks and read that!

      Well summarised and very important!

      ‘On competence, the SNP streak ahead at over 60%’ 🙂

    186. Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish British nationalists argument today has crumbled to begging and insults now
      First they insult us by saying Scotland’s rubbish and can’t do anything then they beg us not to do anything because England will punish us if we do

      This to me shows the Scottish British nationalists are on the road to acceptance of the death in their family of the existence of the British state, they don’t like it but are seeing the inevitable that all things don’t stay the same forever

      The upside for these folk is that where one thing ends a new thing takes its place, like a baby being born and a new future becomes possible

      Except for the mental cases of course, but there’s nothing can be done for them, and they’ll deny until they die

    187. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 9 April, 2019 at 9:55 am

      ” … Except for the mental cases of course, but there’s nothing can be done for them, and they’ll deny until they die.

      Or to put that another way, ‘Ye canna teach an auld DUG DUP new tricks’.

    188. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s one for the book:-

    189. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Britons are split down the middle” @galamcennalath says at 8:44 am.

      Usual Britons = English nonsense.

      I see a Brexit solution now dependent on ‘cross Party’ talks but Scotlands Party not represented!

    190. Nana says:


      Cracking speech by Peter Grant mp

      Will a year long delay to brexit, help or hinder the #scotref effort?
      Will there be a general election, and could we be electing new Scottish MPs and European MEPS, to replace those we have already?

    191. Nana says:

      Murray on second chance but not you Scotland

      We do not need Westminsters ‘permission’ for indy2
      Article in Polish paper, use translate.

      Exclusive: Treasury paying £400m decommissioning relief to Japanese giant Mitsubishi

    192. Nana says:

      This British fruit farmer is almost entirely dependent on EU migrants to work on his farm – he also voted for Brexit.

      “If you crash out, you’ll be back the next day looking for a deal” @MaireadMcGMEP? outlines the consequences she envisages for Britain of a “no deal” Brexit on Friday

    193. Nana says:

      Dire Tory performance with young voters is I think driven by 8 factors. 1) % of electorate which is BME 2) Expansion of Higher Education 3) Changing av age of areas 4) House price/income ratios 5) Tuition Fees 6) Financial Crash 7) Brexit 8) Rise of Social Liberalism (1/10)

      MP Owen Paterson lobbied government for firm he worked for

    194. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says

      Scottish British nationalists argument today has crumbled to begging and insults

      With most debates, I like to understand both sides. I normally can understand where each side is coming from. Their arguments may not win my backing, but I like to think I give a fair hearing and try to objectively assess their points. All topics of life.

      In politics I comprehend the split between those advocating individual freedom with responsibility and those advocating state intervention. Right and left, and inbetween. Different ways of organising and running society. Different regimes for ownership and production. All are believed by their adherents to be what’s best for a country as a whole.

      Some believe a wealthy and powerful elite should rule the masses, I understand that, though I profoundly disagree.

      In most things I’m a pragmatic, middle of the road, compromising person.

      But here’s the thing … with Indy I just can’t see any argument for Scots supporting the Union. In fact, I can’t even see anyone trying to present a positive one! All I see is negativity and scaremongering towards independence, those who support it, even Scotland itself.

      I understand why London and the UK wants to retain Scotland’s natural wealth. I just don’t understand why some Scots are fanatically complicit. I don’t mean all 2014 NO voters because I accept many genuinely felt retaining the UK was the safe option. I do mean the ordinary blood and soil BritNats who show unflinching loyalty to a system which is failing even them!

    195. Legerwood says:

      Ghillie says:
      9 April, 2019 at 9:39 am
      Eh no Breeks. It was Labour claiming to reinvent the wheel. Joanna Cherry had already put forward the motion to prevent a No Deal Brexit and Labour blocked it. Then a few days later tried to claim it as their own. Miserable wee bunch of desperate wannabes.””

      Joanna Cherry’s motion was the best on offer.

      The Cooper-Letwin motion has little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Yvette Cooper positioning herself for a run at the Labour leadership when Corbyn inevitably gets the push.

    196. Clapper57 says:

      What I see with Brexit is the televised media giving way too much exposure to a lot of middle aged and older men who seem to be channeling their inner Alf Garnett….hate Labour under Corbyn…working class….vote Tory but tempted by UKIP….replaced Enoch Powell with Tommy Robinson….talk a lot about the War….defined by a flag….desperate to be free of the EU while simultaneously desperate to be tied to Trump’s America….and we are expected to believe they were all conned.

      Well one can only be conned if one is open to suggestion..and I think for anyone to be persuaded by Vote Leave’s arguments they must already have held same opinions before referendum….hence why they voted leave and are still wanting to leave…many without a deal.

      Watching CH4’s Dispatches last night was no revelation….it merely confirmed that many who rely on people from EU were oblivious to self harm they were inflicting by voting leave. My heart does not bleed for them but it does rage that we in Scotland must also be harmed because of them… wonders if Scots who voted no in 2014 are still willing to be conned by the Bitter Together mob or if at last they too see the self harm they have inflicted by voting no in first Indy ref…..

    197. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      That was a great wee film Robert, I hadn’t seen that one

      Excellent stuff!

    198. Ken500 says:

      Grouse Beater is going to be in Brechin 9th April. Caledonian Hotel, Southesk Street 7pm.

      Really gutted not being able to manage. Disappointed. Hope there is a repeat show. Another time.

    199. SilverDarling says:


      Yes, Yvette Cooper’s overly solemn statesperson-like speeches are fairly transparent in their intent. The amendment is rubbish and thin gruel for any EU remainers.

      The support was there before the amendment was even put forward hence Keir Starmer’s defensive rejection of Joanna Cherry’s substantial and well thought out amendment. Cue lots of Yvette on telly looking grave and thoughtful as it achieves nothing yet the seed is sown that she can ‘unite the house(s)’.

    200. Breeks says:

      Ghillie says:
      9 April, 2019 at 9:39 am
      Eh no Breeks. It was Labour claiming to reinvent the wheel. Joanna Cherry had already put forward the motion to prevent a No Deal Brexit and Labour blocked it. Then a few days later tried to claim it as their own. Miserable wee bunch of desperate wannabes.

      I understood Joanna Cherry’s was a different, and much better, option. Revoking Article 50 is literally a Brexit kill switch which would keep the UK in Europe.

      Demanding more time from Europe by extending Article 50 is giving Europe a Brexit kill switch which could / would kick the UK out of Europe.

      Joanna Cherry’s Option had the virtue of being a choice. This Cooper Letwin Option delegates that choice to Europe.

    201. Dr Jim says:

      @Galamcennalath 10:57am

      Do you know I honestly think much of the objection to our own people running our own show is down to historical subjugation and the derogation of our language, and by that I mean something as simple as our Scottish accents when speaking English, as though the Scottish way of sounding words is somehow inferior to the English way, meaning to some that we must have a lower intellect so are not deserving of being in charge of anything

      We see it every day in folk who leave Scotland to work in England and who deliberately get rid of their accents as quickly as possible in order to fit in, and yet there are as many who never lose their accents because they don’t worry about such things and are confident in themselves and where they come from

      The great inferiority complex of Scots borne out of a system that told us in order to get on in the world we somehow had to go to England *where the jobs are* but they never mentioned the jobs were removed from Scotland in order to make England more prosperous, and for those of us who knew this was happening we were somehow just moaners because our country had been subsumed into their bigger country which was the really important *country*

      Smash a culture, smash an identity, demean the people, remove the work and very soon you have beggars and rebels, the trick is keeping the rebels outnumbered by the beggars so control the media in order to keep promoting the notion that the *Big Country* is promising to take care of the little country who has nothing and never will unless the *Big Country* makes it so

      The Scottish British Nationalists are still tugging their forelocks and being embarrassed by themselves while the rest of us are rather enjoying who we are because we’ve noticed the rest of the world thinks we’re Grreat!

      And they like our accents as well, because it turns out they’ve had the same problems with the same people we have problems with

    202. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clapper57 says: 9 April, 2019 at 11:25 am:

      ” … desperate to be free of the EU while simultaneously desperate to be tied to Trump’s America….and we are expected to believe they were all conned.”

      Oh! They’ve been conned all right. Just see the numbers among them who make the totally untrue and idiotic claims of being ruled by unelected EU people.

      Not a single person in the EU is unelected. All EU members are elected democratically. If they are not elected they are not EU people. They are EC, (European Commission), and the clue is in the title, “European Commission”. They are paid for, (commissioned), by the EU and are factually the EU’s Civil Servants,. As such they have absolutely no decision making powers whatsoever. They do not have votes in the decision making European parliament.

      Their terms of reference are to research and advise the European Union and to carry out the decisions made by the European parliamentarians.

      So if anyone makes that claim you can shoot them down in flames as either being idiots who have been conned or who think you are an idiot they can con.

      Quite Simply no European Commissioner has any decision making powers and thus if they do enforce any EU rules, (and the EU really cannot enforce rules), for if they could all EU member states would have to use the Euro and a third of them do not.

      EU Commissioners research, advise and carry out the decisions made by elected EU parliamentarians – they do not make decisions.

    203. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says:9 April, 2019 at 11:59 am:

      ” … Do you know I honestly think much of the objection to our own people running our own show is down to historical subjugation and the derogation of our language, and by that I mean something as simple as our Scottish accents when speaking English, as though the Scottish way of sounding words is somehow inferior to the English way, meaning to some that we must have a lower intellect”

      You are correct Dr Jim. I was born on a farm and never actually heard English spoken until I attended the local village school.

      First day I answered the teacher’s question with, “Aye Miss!”, and was promptly Lochgellied for doing so and informed I was speaking Scottish slang by an Oxbridge Educated, Scottish born, teacher, (they almost all were in those days).

      Now I guess I was just a born rebel and for the rest of my time in the Scottish education system made a point of using at least one word of “Scottish Slang”, in every class or period. Then, without being asked, I got up and went to the teacher with hand outstretched for the tawse. It drove the teachers mad.

      What made them even madder was that I never sank below either first or Second in every England Language Exam. Laughably I could recite most Scots authors like R.L. Stevenson’s Scottish poems or Scots dialogue from their works.

      Of course, when these were part of the curriculum they were not considered Scottish Slang but examples of great Scottish literature by the old Scots Makkars. I guess I was just not born to be an apologists for being me.

    204. Hamish100 says:

      Deadline: Scottish Parliament election. The next Scottish Parliament election is due to be held on 6 May, 2021

      We must have Independence referendum before this date but preferable as soon as Brexit (whatever version) date is agreed.

      Independence v BREXIT

    205. Breeks says:

      Nana says:
      9 April, 2019 at 10:51 am

      Will a year long delay to brexit, help or hinder the #scotref effort?
      Will there be a general election, and could we be electing new Scottish MPs and European MEPS, to replace those we have already?

      Yes, thanks fine as far as it goes, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

      An electoral majority expressed in a referendum is one way to end the Union, but it is hostage to the same indoctrination and hostile propaganda which sunk us last time. It’s easy to say things will be different this time, but until we have broken the Union, or at least formally disputed UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, then Scotland’s Constitutional position will remain a matter of internal UK domestic policy and the EU will not be in a position to actively help us or even get involved. No interlocutor status, no Legal Personality, no International recognition.

      The other way out of the Union is to cite the actions of Westminster as unconstitutional, and argue that the Treaty of Union has been irremediably breached, and that the Union no longer exists. The success of this action is not dependent upon an electoral mandate which may be compromised by propaganda or vote rigging.

      Where I am uncertain is whether the latter option can be stopped short from actually ending the Union, but still provide Scotland with a transitional platform to argue that Westminster’s Parliamentary Sovereignty can be disputed, and the actual termination of the Union held in abeyance, until the appropriate negotiations and ratification procedures can be carried out.

      In short, it’s Scotland’s own mini Brexit. A Constitutional motion could end the Union at a stroke (the same definitive effect as the Brexit result), but a cliff edge no-Deal Independence would be just like Brexit, – it could injure both parties, so Scotland actually needs its own Withdrawal Agreement from the UK, where Scotland serves notice that it is leaving the UK, (and successfully insists it is free to enter Sovereign commitments with Europe), but begins its own “de-facto” Article 50 notification period which sets a one or two year period to negotiate dissolution of the Union by mutual consent. (I use the word consent, but it may be less than amicable).

      Scotland could thus enter a half-way house status, half way out of the UK, half way in to EU, (although in reality 99.9% in the EU) with a one year long transitional status to carry out a domestic ratification plebiscite, and agree a Scottish/UK Withdrawal Agreement/Withdrawal.

      This Scottish/UK Withdrawal Agreement, (I know, I know, it wouldn’t be UK, but just roll with it), could prove vital, not just for Scotland to depart with minimal rupture, but as I have alluded to before, Scotland could become a buffer state type intermediary between the EU and a Brexited England.

      The UK as we know it would cease to be, but it could evolve into a “Benelux” arrangement of English speaking EU compliant markets, some of them in the EU and some out, with Scotland at its heart ensuring compliance and alignment of all trade heading on into Europe.

      Scotland gets it’s full Constitutional Independence, but we get it calmly, pending a ratification plebiscite and transitional period held on our own terms, (so gtf BBC), Europe gets rid of Rude Boy Westminster but secures the bulk of EU-UK trade, but perhaps most useful of all, we give England a massive inducement to embrace an Indy Scotland as a desperately needed “lifeline” intermediary state which facilitates a constructive relationship with Europe while they sort themselves out over Brexit.

      Here, Scottish BritNat Unionism would have nowhere to go if English prosperity suddenly becomes dependent upon a successful and Independent Scottish economic lifeline to Europe, because if an Indy Scotland fails, so does England’s economic lifeline.

      It’s hard to do this justice in a BTL comment, but there is a MASSIVE opportunity to fix this in good style. The greatest weakness is persuading the Westminster Circus to see sense, and persuading Scotland to be bold.

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Robert’s just jealous of my outstanding good looks, sleek slim person, errr, and the other things …

      … now, where’s that distorting mirror again?

    207. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana and I hope that you’re feeling much better today.

      @ Nana says at 10:51 am ….

      Scot, Ian Forrester QC … the UK’s EU judge. Someone else that you could think of contacting Breeks to clarify the sensibility of your proposed ”action plan / s.” On the other hand, I’m sure that Nicola Sturgeon will have been / is in contact with Mr Forrester along with many other experts and knows exactly what she’s doing; what’s best for Scotland. The most conducive route to take to achieving our Independence.


      Did anyone else notice that Gordon Brewer brought this subject up on Sunday at the end of his interview with Ian Blackford? Brewer said that the info had been divulged an hour beforehand by SLab. And now dafty Ross Thomson, Tory, has joined the fray. A bit of a Better Together co-incidence don’t you think?

      ‘SNP MP threatens to sue Ross Thomson over ‘arms dealer’ jibe.’

    208. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dr. Jim
      It’s called “cultural sublimation”, which is a psychological defense against circumstances which are beyond the individuals’ control.

      Rationalization as Sublimation: On the Cultural Analyses of Weber and Freud

      Sublimation in Behavioral Psychology

      Ethics and Sublimation

      Adorno and Marcuse: Artistic Sublimation Versus Ideological Sublimation

    209. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 13:35,

      Suing BritNats who (allegedly) indulge themselves too recklessly in their favourite occupation of attempting to besmirch the reputation of the indy movement seems to be quite the rage these days, no? =laugh=

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      More on the process of “sublimation”.

      One?Dimensional Man: Role of Media


      This entry examines the ideas about media effects contained in Herbert Marcuse’s book One?Dimensional Man (1964), one of the most influential works associated with the Frankfurt School of Marxist thinkers. The central argument of the book is that advanced capitalist societies such as the United States are much less liberal than they at first appear. Despite their ostensibly democratic character, they are organized in such a way as to make meaningful opposition all but impossible.

      Marcuse believed that the media play an important role in securing social control, but he did not regard them as being primarily responsible for the political docility of modern men and women. Instead he argued that the media reinforce a series of highly repressive economic, social, and cultural shifts that exist independently of them. These include the emergence of “technological rationality,” the blurring of class distinctions, “repressive desublimation,” and the emasculation of the arts.

      Sublimation, Art and Psychoanalysis: Kevin Jones

      Weighty Objects
      On Adorno’s Kant-Freud Interpretation

      On the Aesthetic Structure of Sublimation: Re-reading Marcuse v. Brown through The Birth of Tragedy

    211. Petra says:

      ‘Brexit impact: University research ‘will take decade to recover’.

      ”Brexit could damage university research in Scotland for at least a decade, hitting funding, vital collaborations and disciplines crucial to the economy, confidential documents have revealed.

      Scotland’s universities are said to generate £11 billion for the wider Scottish economy each year and the country has more world-leading academic institutions per head of population than any other country.”..


      ‘Scientists (Scottish and Chinese) find new state of matter that allows atoms to exist as liquid and solid at the same time.’


      ‘Fish may hold clue to remedy for Parkinson’s disease.’

    212. Nana says:

      Thank you Petra, better day today (so far)

      A few links for lunchtime

      How the once mighty have fallen!

      How easy it is to forget when you own so many properties!

      Stark raving bonkers

      at a Bruges Group meeting, where Tory MPs Mark Francois, Andrew Bridgen, and Anne Marie Morris are calling for a no-deal Brexit.

      and today’s Lol goes to STVColin

    213. manandboy says:

      Theresa May, oh yes, oops, I forgot she was coming. Is it today? Where is she? Really? OK, help me with my jacket, will you. Thanks.

    214. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      manandboy @ 14:09,

      Maybot just can’t help getting it wrong with her neighbours, can she? Gets the cold shoulder from the EU “grandes fromages”, but how do all the other members feel about her trying yet one more time to do a backroom stitch-up with the chosen few?

      They all have a veto, every single one. That’s real partnership. (Not the fake kind we were palmed-off with.)

    215. Dr Jim says:

      The word *slang* refers to speech that is not considered normal language…colloquialisms..patois..idioms

      So who told Scotland the languages we spoke were any of those things when we all understood each other perfectly well

      Well my goodness gracious it must have been that foreign invading power who told us not to speak our languages under pain of …well whatever they decided, and speak their language

      There are to this day many many countries who still speak *slang*, many people around the world and the politicians of the EU go out of their way to speak the same foreign language that Scotland speaks to the country who can’t seem to master the art of learning anybody else’s *slang*

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      More on “cultural sublimation”.

      Freudian Defense Mechanisms and Empirical Findings in Modern Social Psychology: Reaction Formation, Projection, Displacement, Undoing, Isolation, Sublimation, and Denial


      Recent studies in social psychology are reviewed for evidence relevant to seven Freudian defense mechanisms. This work emphasizes normal populations, moderate rather than extreme forms of defense, and protection of self?esteem against threat. Reaction formation, isolation, and denial have been amply shown in studies, and they do seem to serve defensive functions.

      Undoing, in the sense of counterfactual thinking, is also well documented but does not serve to defend against the threat. Projection is evident, but the projection itself may be a by?product of defense rather than part of the defensive response itself. Displacement is not well supported in any meaningful sense, although emotions and physical arousal states do carry over from one situation to the next. No evidence of sublimation was found.

      Cultural Sublimation

      Sublimation, culture, and creativity

      Sublimation and Symbolization: An Aristotelian Psychoanalysis

    217. gus1940 says:


      Re Trumps latest announcement of anti EU tariffs including aircraft:-

      He attacks alleged government subsidies to Airbus.

      Perhaps he could be reminded that back in the late 50s at the start of commercial jet aircraft and the intro of the 707 the USAF ordered around 700 (I can’t remember the exact number) of the KC135 Tanker versions followed in later years by the AWACS and assorted ECM versions with assorted bumps and bulges.

      I don’t suppose that amounted to government subsidy when we were trying to sell Comets and VC10s.

    218. galamcennalath says:

      ” a worse-case no-deal Brexit scenario involving border delays and financial market turmoil would increase the damage to about 4 percent of GDP by 2021.

      It’s about 1.5% growth just now.

      That predicted damage is NEGATIVE growth.

      The definition of a RECESSION is negative growth for two successive quarters.

      Why are the MSM so shy about the word ‘recession’?

    219. gus1940 says:


      Given Trumps recent actions re Israel and his blatant attempts to ensure Netanyahu’s re-election I am surprised that he hasn’t yet got round to proposing that Israel becomes the 51st state of the US.

    220. Confused says:

      – here’s a good long article, interview with Michael Hudson – takes in public banking, mixed economies, MMT and lessons from antiquity – one to mull over, steep in for an hour or two, a deep dive

      To pay their way, most countries need “something” – natural resources, industry, strategic position, tourism, educated workforce – Scotland has ALL of these things, making economic minutiae almost irrelevant – its like we are CONDEMNED TO BECOME THE RICHEST country on earth, short of deliberate sabotage, or simply allowing foreign oligarchs to loot us; any practical economy will be of the “mixed” type, but if you can setup the right kind of public banking at the start, you can turbocharge it as well.

      I think the 30 years post independence will be the greatest ever in our history – massive infrastructure projects, spaceport(!), the fusion of new technologies – we can be at the forefront of it – no one has our combination of abilities. But first we need to cut the rope / evict the vagrant in the basement …

    221. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland’s like an Oasis that only the Sheik’s allowed to drink, water his camels and eat the figs, any locals dare do it and they lose a hand

    222. defo says:

      Too late Gus.
      The City of London bagsyed it.

      Know them by their actions!

      It’s not the Russians the Yanks need to be looking at re influencing elections, and the reciprocal price thereof.

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland is in desperate need of therapeutic cultural psychoanalysis, that’s for sure.

      Of Drives and Culture

      The deterritorialization of cultural heritage in a globalized modernity

      The Essential Guide to Defense Mechanisms
      Can you spot your favorite form of self-deception?

      Three Essays in Psychoanalysis: The Jouissance of the Cultural Superego

    224. yesindyref2 says:

      Bit by bit the media in Scotland are “getting it”.

      Won’t be long now.

    225. manandboy says:

      Merkel greets May – as the Brainwashing Corporation pretends with this still pic. No mention of May arriving to an empty red carpet and walking into the building alone, to then return with Angela Merkel for the benefit of the puzzled photographers who had assembled.

    226. yesindyref2 says:

      An example of that by the way is both The National and the Herald carrying this headline and story: “Ian Blackford threatens to sue Ross Thomson over ‘arms dealer'” (or SNP MP instead of Blackford).

      It really was far better for the Herald to ditch the “pro-Indy ” Sunday Herald and take it back into its stable, with The National having a Sunday. It cleared the lines, while making it easier for both titles to share stories. A winner all round if you ask me (and tough if you didn’t!).

    227. Gary says:

      “It’s the economy, stupid” as someone once said.

      It’s not that the pieces aren’t there, because they are. And it’s not that they’re stupid, because they’re not. It’s a kind of blindness borne of thinking that there’s nothing to see! If you thought there was nothing there, why would you look out the window? These guys just haven’t LOOKED…

    228. First day I answered the teacher’s question with, “Aye Miss!”, and was promptly Lochgellied for doing so and informed I was speaking Scottish slang by an Oxbridge Educated, Scottish born, teacher, (they almost all were in those days).

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