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A Little Respect

Posted on July 15, 2022 by

Readers, meet SNP councillor Fatima Joji.

As you can see, she’s part of the hyperwoke “Aberdeen Independence Movement” faction which recently took it upon itself to issue a “code of conduct” for independence campaigners, demanding that everyone in the Yes movement should debate things:

“politely and positively at all times, without rancour and bitterness […] in a respectful and tolerant manner, agreeing to differ where necessary but always ­taking a zero-tolerance approach to discrimination and prejudice.”

And here’s Cllr Joji setting an example last night:

Hmm.

She said it twice so nobody misunderstood her.

The tweets were part of an extended tirade objecting to a tweet thread I’d posted about Tory leadership candidate Kemi Badenoch.

I hadn’t actually “advocated” for Badenoch at all, of course. She’s a Conservative with Conservative values, most of which I find repellent. Rather, I’d pointed out that from a Tory point of view she was the smart choice for leader, because she’d be much harder for Keir Starmer to fight than someone like the current front-runner Penny Mordaunt.

(A point also made by many other people, including the splendid Allison Bailey.)

Alert readers will have noted that both Cllr Joji and fellow wokester Miguel “William Saraband” Boronha insisted that Badenoch wasn’t an immigrant at all – something which will have come as surprising news to Badenoch, who was raised in Nigeria from the age of two weeks to adulthood, whose first language is Nigerian, and who certainly appears to see herself that way.

But Joji went much further, repeatedly making the outrageous and utterly unfounded allegation that I had, on unspecified occasions and in unspecified ways, personally “harassed virtually everyone in the [SNP] BAME Network for being BAME in politics”.

(Unfortunately it seems Cllr Joji hasn’t been keeping herself up to date with the latest developments in woke Newspeak – the term “BAME” is now regarded as “offensive”, “outdated”, “unhelpful” and “redundant” according to a report by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities last year. We trust she’ll surrender herself promptly to the relevant authorities for re-education.)

As far as I can tell I’ve only even HEARD of three people in the SNP BAME Network, and I haven’t “harassed” any of them, let alone done so “for being BAME in politics”.

So naturally I challenged Cllr Joji to substantiate her offensive and defamatory claim.

She didn’t react very well to being asked to back up the disgraceful smear of racism, suggesting that a polite request for such evidence was in fact “bullying”.

(I hadn’t mentioned any kind of legal action at any point.)

Instead she just repeated the smear over and over again.

So we can only suppose that baselessly calling people racists, bullies, harassers and “disgusting scum” who can “absolutely gtf” is what classes as “agreeing to differ in a respectful and tolerant manner” in the new SNP.

We have to be honest with you, folks, it doesn’t fill us with optimism about the state of an independent Scotland. But then, with the SNP in charge, that’s not something we’re going to have to worry about any time soon.

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    748 to “A Little Respect”

    1. James che says:

      Hatuey.

      I will be keeping a friendly eye on you, your sailing ahead of most of us, lol 🙂

    2. Mark Boyle says:

      Hatuey says:
      21 July, 2022 at 12:14 pm
      You seem to be saying that in order to be relevant we need to commit to moaning about the price of beans. Any evidence of that working for you?

      Didn’t think so.

      LOL! Love the way you answer your own question before you even got an answer – hallmark of a loser.

      Ever heard of the phrase “It’s the economy, stupid?” The SNP spent decades in the doldrums until “It’s Scotland’s Oil”. I’d have thought even the most whacked-out nat would have grasped that, never mind the anti-SNP factions, but clearly I’m over-optimistic.

      If you want people to care less about your political agenda, you have to be focussing on what’s important in their agenda first – otherwise they won’t listen. Jobs and housing and cost of living and all that stuff you may find, “booooring, muuuum!” but it’s what greases the political wheels to move.

      One of the reasons I have signed up for Salvo — and advise everyone to do likelwise — is that it is the only movement out that there is putting organisational structures in place, beyond the usual and very limited political party machine type stuff.

      The only movement it resembles is a bowel movement – same old shit that the majority think stinks, no matter how much glitter you put on it to make it look shiny, new and innovative. At £25 a pop.

      It’s self-important middle classers running up a self-important think tank at a time when most people are struggling to make ends meet. It’s classic “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” self-indulgence, and it will achieve zero except massage a few egos.

      It may have escaped your notice but party politics has failed and is continuing to fail us. Westminster is a colonial Parliament that, unlike any other Parliament in the world, has almost absolute power to overrule anything we in the dominions decide.

      It’s failed so much that people keep voting in it.

      Sorry, but “party politics has failed” is rhetoric not matched by the reality. We’re far from being in a Sri Lanka situation where the masses are taking to direct action – and droning on about stuff of interest to the comfortable classes is not likely to make them care any more about your hobby horses.

      That all said, I think the road ahead looks pretty bumpy and I won’t be surprised if things get so bad for people in Scotland that they start reaching for solutions that other parties can’t reach. And that’s where Salvo comes in.

      You really have no idea about how people behave when the economy turns sour, do you?

      If they do, it’s going to be BNP, UKIP, SWP, SnG, Militant and other “reactionary” type groups who will capitalise by oversimplifying solutions, not waffling middle classers who sound exactly like the sort of w**kers who got their wee worlds into this mess in the first place.

      “Empowering The Nation”? Gie’s peece – preferably wan wi’ a dod o’ square slice in it” your average gadgie in the street will say. And they are the many, not the few.

      Muscleguy on here pointed out way back in 2019 over at The National when this rot was first floated by Dr Mark McNaught it sounded like McNaught’s “written constitution” project from 2012 reheated and that the vast majority of nationalists, let alone the public, wouldn’t care less. Three years later and nothing has changed – if anything, it’s place in the list of people’s priorities has got far, far lower.

    3. James che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      They have to go, along with the extensional british government ie devolved scottish government to be replaced by a “Sovereign Scots Constitutional peoples Assembly”

      The people need to decide when and where and how this happens, not a political party.

    4. Effigy says:

      Sky News- Royal Mail Chairman Keith Williams claims they are losing £1 Million per day?
      Strange when the media and union officials show that they made £620 million profit last year

      The fat cats all filled their boots with the profits but when the workers do more with less staff and want a wage rise it’s time for losses.

      Nothing lies better than an accountant who’s job depends on it.

      A first class stamp in 2012 cost 46p
      10 years later it’s 95p.

      Anyone want to guess if the workers wages have more than doubled in 10 years.

      It’s criminal what these fat cats try to get away with and what the U.K. bent media print on their behalf.

      I hear Rishi is going to govern Thatcher like and Truss already copying Thatcher the Milk Snatchers dress code.

      Would you like that Scotland?
      You do know there is nothing you could do if Westminster rules over you and they want to start the Poll Tax again? Don’t you?

    5. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @James Che (1.41) –

      Hear hear.

      There is a lot of hope around, but it’s too dissipated right now. 2012-14 saw it becoming intense, hence the optimism. Many of us have never fully recovered from seeing it wither so spectacularly.

      That’s not to say it can’t be generated again. I can’t think of a solitary field of expertise which doesn’t have independence supporters. But they have to pay bills and feed families the same as anyone else and a lot of them have been keeping their heads down for obvious reasons.

      The spark will not come from Sturgeon and her pals. We all seem to be agreed on that point. (And it goes without saying that it’s not coming from WM or any of the ‘international community’.)

      If the constitutional route is the only peaceful one left, so be it, we’ll just have to wait and see if SALVO or someone else can fashion a liferaft somehow. As for the age of the treaties in question, it’s hard to see how that can be considered a serious objection when other modern democracies crossed the t’s and dotted the i’s on their declarations of independence in the 18th century and the average life expectancy of a ‘Windsor’ isn’t far off a full century. ‘Time’ can be used as a trick.

    6. James che says:

      There doesn’t seem to be any thinking being done in the tanks down south, in fact they’re to busy trying to run to some one else country with all our tax money being given away gift wrapped and un- tracable.
      While they host and mimic a X factor style competition on tele for whose the most popular personality person for a prime ministers job, without the X factor showing up.
      instead they have a failing NHS, trains that don’t run, strikes looming, and a crashing economy. With the pound taking a hammering.
      So wrapped up in themselves They are ruining the country, not running it.

      Westminster should be getting on with their day job.

    7. Hatuey says:

      Relax, Mark, your reaction and tone suggests this is the first time you’ve encountered someone that thinks you’re a moron and we both know that isn’t true.

      I don’t do feelings and emotions so kindly keep them under control and do your best to focus on the question I asked (which you scorned me for answering in advance without providing an answer yourself).

      Here it is put more succinctly; please tell us what argument you intend to “deploy” in order to galvanise the Scottish people and encourage them to support Alba or the SNP or whoever you think is going to win independence?

      I’m trying to work out how the Israelites would have reacted if Moses went up that mountain and came back with nothing but insults for them instead of the ten commandments… you didn’t go up a mountain, of course, you went to Castlemilk, but you get the idea.

      The people are waiting for your direction and I am not sure telling them they are a bunch of losers will work…

    8. Hatuey says:

      James Che: “I will be keeping a friendly eye on you”

      I’ve actually learned much from keeping a friendly eye on the stuff you have been typing. Keep it up.

    9. sarah says:

      The only reason why someone would deride and denigrate Salvo’s valuable work to inform the wider world about the actual provisions of Scotland’s Constitution [work that was only made possible by the digitisation in 2008 of the Scottish Parliament records pre-1707], is to undermine the progress towards regaining Scotland’s status as a nation state.

      All those btl here who actually want Scotland restored will look at Salvo, sign the Declaration, and also look at SSRG’s material.

    10. Breeks says:

      OT

      https://www.thenational.scot/sport/20294443.quidditch-changing-name-distance-jk-rowling/#comments-anchor

      “Quidditch is changing its name to distance itself from JK Rowling”.

      Rowling should counter, “You’re meant to fkg fly douche-bags”.

    11. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks.

      Archived it for you so folk can read the whole article it will now be called Quadball.

      A spokesperson for the UK branch said.

      “We cannot continue to call ourselves quidditch and be associated with JK Rowling while she continues to make damaging and hateful comments against the many transgender athletes, staff, and volunteers who call this sporting community home.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fsport%2F20294443.quidditch-changing-name-distance-jk-rowling%2F%23comments-anchor

    12. Mark Boyle says:

      Hatuey says:
      21 July, 2022 at 2:22 pm

      [One screed of atypical “you’re a big jobby!” waffle later]

      Here it is put more succinctly; please tell us what argument you intend to “deploy” in order to galvanise the Scottish people and encourage them to support Alba or the SNP or whoever you think is going to win independence?

      The people are waiting for your direction and I am not sure telling them they are a bunch of losers will work.

      I’ve already stated my opinion on this, time and time again. It’s not bloody rocket science either.

      Either the Heinz 57 varieties of “alternatives” to the SNP show themselves as a united alternative to being sold down the river by Sturgeon’s troughers, or that’s it – there’s more bloody chance of Third Lanark getting back into the Scottish League than there is of any of their little hobby politics “cunning plans” achieving anything.

      No more excuses, no more bullshit, either Msssrs Salmond, Sillars, Sheridan, Nugent, Walker – and those pulling their puppet strings in certain cases – unite and bin their bloody egos for the greater good, or Sturgeon’s gang of race hustlers, crooks, crackpots and perverts will feel secure to do exactly as they please like Scottish Labour before them.

    13. Breeks says:

      sarah says:
      21 July, 2022 at 2:45 pm

      All those btl here who actually want Scotland restored will look at Salvo, sign the Declaration, and also look at SSRG’s material.

      … and share it.

      For what it’s worth, I’ve been struck by how very few people have actually denigrated the work of SALVO. Even the Unionists seem strangely subdued. SALVO is providing a tremendous service for Scotland, digging up acutely pertinent information which the United Kingdom Government has tried to bury for 315 years.

      And they do want it buried, because Hansard has just been caught red handed removing references to the Claim of Right from the minutes of Parliamentary debates.

      I agree with you Sarah. In Indy World, with a 1,001 people who deserve criticism for doing nothing, why attack the people who are the most determined of any of us to see this Union consigned to history?

    14. Mark Boyle says:

      sarah says:
      21 July, 2022 at 2:45 pm

      The only reason why someone would deride and denigrate Salvo’s valuable work to inform the wider world about the actual provisions of Scotland’s Constitution [work that was only made possible by the digitisation in 2008 of the Scottish Parliament records pre-1707], is to undermine the progress towards regaining Scotland’s status as a nation state.

      All those btl here who actually want Scotland restored will look at Salvo, sign the Declaration, and also look at SSRG’s material.

      Nope, it’s called telling you a few home truths and the delusional going “lalalalalanotlistening!”

      “Salvo’s valuable work” – it isn’t. Get over yourselves. It will do as much in regaining Scotland status as a nation state in practice as a butterfly farting in Beith.

      As Keynon Wright discovered the hard way in 1999 and 2003, just because everyone else in your echo chamber thinks you’re important doesn’t mean anyone outside it gives two flying eggs.

    15. Big Jock says:

      Shows you how crazy the world is. When we are supporting JK Rowling, over the SNP First Minister. Nicola’s policies are divisive and unnecessary.

      Will she please beat it after the SC hearing in October. We have independence to get on with.

    16. Republicofscotland says:

      This Scottish government has allowed the culling of Ravens and Mountain hares, the latter a food source for many wild predators in Scotland they also introduced licences to kill Beavers, at least eighty have been culled, now over two-hundred thousand deer in Scotland are to be culled over the next five years.

      I say reintroduce the wolf and lynx back into Scotland, bot would keep the Red Deer and Mountain hare in check, and in the process restore the balance.

      This has already been proven with the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone national park, they have kept deer in check, and allowed the flora to grow back in areas that were barren due to the missing predators and in the process restore the balance of nature.

      This SNP Scottish government are far to chummy with the lairds who own Scotland, many raptors including the constantly persecuted Hen Harrier are killed deliberately every year in Scotland be estate managers, along with rabbits, Hares, Mice, Voles, infact the lands are all but sterlised to allow Grouse to flourish, so that chinless wonders and those who get their jollies out of shooting semi-flightless birds can fly up for a weekend of shoot all you like at these estates, owned by, in some cases foreign absent landlords.

      Andy Wightman knew what was going on and he also new that nothing will change, well no real meaningful change that is, Scotland is just one big shooting and fishing estate, and a scenic retirement home for those who are sick of the rat race, and in many cases our land is owned by faceless foreigners and corporations out to make a profit such as in forestry, or boosting their image by buying up forests and land as carbon offsetting.

    17. sarah says:

      @ Breeks: Thank you – sensible and instructive words, as always!

      Re Hansard removing the references to the Claim of Right: I was stunned because Hansard is a byword for being a complete record of everything said in Westminster Parliament – or so I thought. Perhaps it is another of those illusions/delusions.

      Thank heavens for Diane in Lithgae who saw what they had done and forced them to restore it. I wonder if David Torrance, now an employee of Parliament, had anything to do with the alteration? It always seemed to me a bit odd that he should go from Scottish journalism [was it] down to be part of the Westminster administration. Or should I put on my tinfoil hat?

    18. James says:

      Chas: “…Hate to say it, but in the short term. we would probably all be better voting Labour…”

      LOL!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!

    19. Breastplate says:

      Well done Sarah for talking about Salvo.
      There’s absolutely no good reason for people not to sign.

      They’re not asking for anything other than the 30 seconds it takes to sign it.

      People should sign it and get involved or sign it and forget about it but they should add their weight to Scotland’s cause by simply tapping in their name.

      If that’s too much to ask then I couldn’t possibly fathom the hardships they have to endure.

    20. Breastplate says:

      There’s no difference between the Labour and Conservative parties, they are both Tories.

      The idea that things will be better for ordinary punters under one or the other, is less than mentally athletic.

      There is no difference.
      They serve the same master in the same way.

    21. Republicofscotland says:

      “All those btl here who actually want Scotland restored will look at Salvo, sign the Declaration, and also look at SSRG’s material.”

      Indeed Sarah both are important, and may eventually help us egress this rotten union. The problem is that many folk who wants independence still believe that Sturgeon will deliver it and will not hear a bad word spoken against her, and even by the chance that her vile machinations are exposed, she’ll just be replaced with someone like Angus Robertson who’ll continue to dangle the indy carrot, and the same folk that believed in Sturgeon will then (the majority of them) believe in Robertson.

      I’ve come to the conclusion that unless we can maneuver a strong minded indy FM into the SNP post-Sturgeon that we’ll need to wait for the rise of the Alba party and the return of Alex Salmond,the only person ever to have held and indyref and ergo given Scots a choice on their future.

    22. wull says:

      Was there a comment above, with one or two links, which showed Rishi Sunak seeming to think that Darlington was in Scotland? I am trying, but failing to find the links, so that I can send them to someone. Can anyone help?

      It is extraordinary, but hardly surprising, that the would-be PM of the UK, who claims he will be the ‘custodian of the Union’, does not even know where the border between Scotland and England is.

      I wonder if he has ever been in Scotland. Or even the North of England, for that matter. It could be that in his mind, anything further north than Birmingham, or even Bedford is just one big blurr. Maybe he doesn’t realise that when English people speak about ‘the North’ they mean the North of England. So he thinks that when he ‘even went to Darlington himself’ on one occasion it was as if he was in Scotland.

      Is it all the same thing to someone from the London Raj?

    23. Ottomanboi says:

      Should Rishi Sunak be the next UK prime minister, we might enjoy the pretty spectacle
      of aman of «colonial» heritage telling the Scots to kiss Britannia’s post imperial rump.
      Baroness Davidson might oblige in the totemic rôle.

    24. robbo says:

      wull says:
      21 July, 2022 at 5:56 pm
      Was there a comment above, with one or two links, which showed Rishi Sunak seeming to think that Darlington was in Scotland? I am trying, but failing to find the links, so that I can send them to someone. Can anyone help?

      —————-

      Dan says:
      20 July, 2022 at 12:54 pm
      The Battle for territory in the Union continues as the Scots have apparently now taken Darlington!

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1549699472602587140

    25. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dorothy, isn B i spent sges typing a very long comment yesterday, it went into moderation and looks like it wasnt approved as i cant see it, i aint gonna do that again so consider me out.

    26. Mark Boyle says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      21 July, 2022 at 3:43 pm

      This Scottish government has allowed the culling of Ravens and Mountain hares, the latter a food source for many wild predators in Scotland they also introduced licences to kill Beavers, at least eighty have been culled, now over two-hundred thousand deer in Scotland are to be culled over the next five years.

      I say reintroduce the wolf and lynx back into Scotland, bot would keep the Red Deer and Mountain hare in check, and in the process restore the balance.

      This has already been proven with the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone national park, they have kept deer in check, and allowed the flora to grow back in areas that were barren due to the missing predators and in the process restore the balance of nature.

      Not comparing like with like. The Scottish Highlands are double the size of old Jellystone, but its quarter of a million people versus just over a thousand – and it’s bastardly humans that are the real problem with wolves. When not blowing their heads off, we’re knocking them down with our vehicles.

      Another problem is – again unlike America – you’d get loads of wallies heading north wanting to feed a wolf. The peoples of these here islands are a little silly when it comes to wildlife, and the growled “fk offs” would quickly stop once they realised the wolves realised they were onto a good thing, and soon all you’d have is a jumbo sized fox, in packs. Especially here in Scotland: we’d fill them with Big Macs, cakes and goodies until they were too fat to move, never mind chase deer. The moment they reintroduced wolves up here, the clock would be counting down to the day of the first selfie on the internet of some gadgie feeding El Lupo his first deep fried Mars Bar …

      The culling of mountain hares and ravens is a disgrace. Mountain hare numbers are naturally kept down by wildcats, stoats and especially birds of prey. Maybe if they were more diligent in prosecuting gamekeepers “accidentally” killing raptors they’d not have any mountain hare issues – they certainly don’t in Derbyshire, where they’re on the verge of extinction (mankind again …).

      The culling of ravens in particular is outrageous. The claim is it’s to protect lambs, but they’re carrion birds, killing largely what’s already dead (in North America they often work in teams with wolves in the winter, guiding them to carcasses to tear open which the ravens cannot do, especially if frozen in the snow). The real issue is that ravens attack pheasants and other game birds – once again, it’s to suit Lord Snooty and his chums.

    27. sarah says:

      @ Breastplate: “If that’s too much to ask [to sign Salvo’s Declaration] then I couldn’t possibly fathom the hardships they must have to endure.”

      LOL!! That brought a smile to this old face. Thank you!

      Meanwhile we had best keep banging on about Salvo and SSRG btl. I believe this kind of repetition has happened here before? 🙂 🙂

      @ Republicofscotland: not many here will disagree with you – we desperately need a passionate and capable leader of the SNP who is completely driven by the idea of restoring Scotland. The current Leader and nearly all the parliamentarians are neither passionate nor capable.

      The membership has failed to resist the moves to restrict their own power. It would take a mammoth and very well-organised movement to oust the current leadership group and restore party democracy. A host of branches would have to combine and force the issue. I long to see them do so as the SNP block of votes is essential to any progress on independence electorally at the moment.

    28. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev St –

      Please check Lenny Hartley’s 6.45.

      If he hasn’t made a malicious comment could you please release it from moderation as a few of us would like to see it?

      Thanks.

    29. wull says:

      Thank you very much, Robbo, for re-posting Dan’s comment, with the link. The person I want to send it to will be mightily amused.

    30. Big Jock says:

      Looking forward to the Darlington Highland games. Winner gets a case of British Whisky!

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      Mark Boyle @6.46pm.

      I was going to make a witty comment on this from you (but they’re carrion birds, killing largely what’s already dead) about HTF can you kill something that’s already dead, however I agree with a fair bit of your comment.

      Anyway on the subject I see no reason why a large national park can’t be created for the predators and prey in Scotland, I recall some guy in a documentary a few years back wanting to use his estate and buy the estate next door to do such a thing but the sale fell through, though I’d rather the Scottish government set up a national park for it.

      There’s the possibility it could pay for itself post the set up, set out trails so vehicles can tour, open them to the public a bit like Blairdrummond safari park. Sure you’d get the odd dumbass that would exit their vehicle for a better selfie shot, disclaimer signs would everywhere for this one, and wildlife documentary makers would also pay to come and film and study the wolves and Lynx.

      WTF am I talking about the Scottish government can’t even build a ferry, that reminds me, I’m off to watch abandoned Engineering, forget I mentioned it.

    32. James che says:

      Republiclicofscotland,

      A deeper investigation would lead you to there being a total eclipse of Scottish evolved wildlife, ready and due for an overhaul replacement of animals that evolved in a different country, it is not just in politics that a ” coup” can be arranged.
      Change the fauna, the wildlife, the society, and WALLA. Scotland is changed to America,

      Why?
      Ideology of the wealthy?

      They have culled hedgehogs, badgers, foxes, deer,, rabbits, hares, ravens, seagulls and other birds.
      These are nothing sport to the elite,
      Perhaps a little boredom is setting in after hundreds of years and they want bigger game that will keep the Scottish plebs from wandering into their own countryside without paying for a safari road trip.

      This is up there with trans gender, climate change, and cancel culture.

    33. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @James Che –

      My concern about wolves and suchlike being reintroduced is that the landowners would have yet another excuse to keep us ‘plebs’ in the cities where we belong.

      Even as things are you can barely step off a single-track road without some busybody threatening to take down your particulars.

    34. James che says:

      Breeks.

      Thanks for that info regarding Hansard and the Scottish Claim of Right, obviously this needs monitoring carefully.

      Could it possibly be that this Claim of Right worries then so much they would wish to airbrush it out of history and sight,

      It is one of those moments that the Scots have to realise how important it is and copy it as much as possible,
      It is also important that we all understand that SALVO and the SCOTS CLAIM of
      RIGHT is not a petition,
      It is part of the Scottish Constitution and instilled in the treaty of the union,
      If Hansard and Westminster erase, ignore or try to replace it it breaks the 1707 treaty of the union.

    35. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Is it possible to sign the SALVO petition without becoming a member?

    36. James che says:

      Ian Brotherhood.

      I think the G meetings and wef along with the EU have something like what you mention in mind,

      Especially when you do a background check on whose names keep cropping up in land buys across the world,
      Maybe the lockdowns were part of that subduing practice, and withdrawing fuel for vehicles so we don’t travelling very far is all about getting us used to being limited to a small area like in china, who knows,
      I cannot believe that any Scots person man or woman would want to have their ( brain cells altered ) enough to think so little of their countries wildlife that it was no longer good For them, made to feel ashamed and that Scotlands future habitat should look and replicate a set universal standard and become like America or an EU country.

      The way each eco system has evolved in individual countries wether it be by man, weather or fauna is unique.

    37. Mark Boyle says:

      Another good reason for not reintroducing wolves.

      Bad enough all the freak weirdos in what is laughably called the Scottish Greens (“No longer Enviromental, Just Mental”), especially Big Stu’s favourite’s the Rainbow Greens (apt since they’re one Bungle after another …), can you imagine the poor wolves having to deal with this from their Furries section?

      shorturl.at/bclS3

      What’s her name amongst North American Indians? “Winches With Wolves?”

    38. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Much chatter btl about Salvo, etc.

      This video (Sara Salyers speech on the Claim of Right, Alba Part Conference, April 2022) is on the front page at:-

      https://salvo.scot/

      It’s only just over 4 minutes long but should be watched by those btl who think that we, Scots, don’t matter.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQlFA8FxQXw

      It will be interesting to read the input of btl commenters who disagree with what she says.

    39. Mark Boyle says:

      Meanwhile, back on the topic of things the general public WILL actually care about …

      https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/two-local-snp-mps-among-24539859

      Oh ho ho ho ho ho!

      “Two SNP MPs are among a number of elected officials found to have charged their Amazon Prime subscriptions to the taxpayer in the last 18 months.

      Angela Crawley, who serves as the SNP MP for Lanark and Hamilton East, and Steven Bonnar, SNP MP for Coatbridge, Chryston, and Bellshill, have claimed payments for the service back on expenses.”

      Bonnar is still denying he did it, saying it was “stationery”.

    40. Andy Ellis says:

      sarah says:
      21 July, 2022 at 2:45 pm

      All those btl here who actually want Scotland restored will look at Salvo, sign the Declaration, and also look at SSRG’s material.

      I want Scotland restored….but I have questions in relation to Salvo….

      1) What’s the timescale envisaged for the envisaged “reconvening of the Assembly of the Communities and the setting up of democratic assemblies…”

      2) How many Scots have to sign the declaration for it to be ….”accepted” as the legitimate voice of the “community of the realm”?

      3) who is behind Salvo and where has it gone to find support for its proposed way forward from legal and constitutional experts? The website is a tad light on information apart from name checking Alf Baird and Sarah Salyers.

      4) David Heriot says in the site: “We want to recall the Convention of the Estates to forfeit this UK government and we need your help to do it.”

      and;

      We’re not ready to recall the Convention yet, but when we do, we need Citizens’ Assemblies already set up all over the country.

      The thing is, I’m still not really seeing how that happens more quickly than using plebiscitary elections. Note that I’m not being negative or saying Salvo’s plans are impossible: I think they have some merit in principle, they just seem potentially pretty long term, don’t they?

      Is the plan to persuade more than half the population to sign up? Who decides who gets chosen for these Citizen’s Assemblies? Is it random choice from all of those signed up? How will we know how representative the assembly members are? Will they be serving free, or paid expenses? If the latter, where is the money coming from?

      I have my doubts Salvo and the SSRG’s plans will produce results in the short to medium term timescales people here promoting them seem to want?

    41. sarah says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 7.54: “is it possible to sign the SALVO petition without becoming a member?”

      I’m not entirely sure quite what the Salvo site means by “Join”. As there is no membership fee I took it just to mean giving moral support to the principle that we are sovereign and we damned well want to withdraw from the Treaty of Union!

      You could ask them, IB.

    42. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      I ended up in a circular search and cannot find any straightforward ‘petition’ to sign. That’s why I asked here.

      If there is a petition, aye, of course, I’ll sign it. All I need is a link. But no-one seems to have one.

      🙁

    43. John Main says:

      I am a little late to this article, and with the comment count at 534, the BTL caravan has long forgotten what it is supposed to be about, and meandered over the horizon into new territory.

      But I want to belatedly congratulate Rev Stu on once again, showing us what investigative journalism, facts-based reporting, and reasoned logic looks like.

    44. sarah says:

      @ Ian B – sorry. It is the “Join Salvo” button at the top of the Salvo.scot web page – click on it and it shows the Declaration then a box for your name, email and town and below that an option to be part of the Assemblies or just click on the Join Salvo box.

      I just did all that myself [apart from filling in the boxes again] to check the procedure.

      Thanks for making the effort!

    45. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Bob Boswell’s wife has set up a Twitter account which is clearly in response to the many messages she has received from his pals in Scotland.

      It’s beautiful stuff, please check it out.

      https://twitter.com/rosariamelo033/status/1550158025922682888

    46. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      Thanks.

      I shall attend to this business directly!

      😉

    47. John Main says:

      @ Hatuey says:21 July, 2022 at 2:22 pm

      “I am not sure telling them they are a bunch of losers will work…”

      So you could tell us we are a bunch of under-achievers like those you regularly bulldoze out of your road.

      How did that work out for you the last time you tried it?

    48. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      And the business is now done!

      Easy-peasy, but for the likes of me it has to be!

      Here’s the link again for others…

      https://salvo.scot/join-salvo/

    49. John Main says:

      @ James che says:21 July, 2022 at 7:26 pm

      “keep the Scottish plebs from wandering into their own countryside without paying for a safari road trip”

      Ah, James, hate to break it to you like this, but we sold out on our “right to roam” when we all complied with it being taken away because of “Covid”.

      That’s the awkward fact about rights. They can’t be conditional. Our more-or-less universal acceptance that that “right” could be suspended, just went to show it was never really a right at all.

      I well recall my protests at the time. I don’t recall a peep from anybody else.

      In other news, reported in Unherd today, Bill Gates is now the biggest owner of farmland in the USA. I doubt that his plans, or those of his Scottish landowning equivalents, include throwing it all open for ordinary folk to wander over.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is the central body of the text I’ve just received via e-mail after signing the SALVO ‘petition’.

      ‘The claim at the heart of this campaign is our right to the restoration of the practical, political and legal application of Scottish constitutional principles, most of all the principle of popular sovereignty. The sovereignty of the people means our right to determine our own future, to decide on the legitimacy of any government as well as on the kind of government we want to have, to follow Scottish, not English, constitutional principles and to establish the mechanisms by which to achieve those things.

      Those are all ‘high sounding’ goals. But what they mean in practice is a Scotland where the people come first, where the primacy of the common good means that everyone has a share in the resources that belong to all of us equally. Popular sovereignty is the right and the means to ensure that the common good, the rights, interests and welfare of the people, is always at the centre of government because that government will be directly and practically answerable to the public.

      No more big corporations raking in breath-taking profits from our energy resources while the people go cold and hungry. No more special tax deals or huge contracts to government pals, deals that leave an economic deficit to be made up in more ‘austerity’ for the ordinary Scot. No more hungry kids; no more pensioners trying to survive on half the living wage after paying into their pensions all their lives; no more fuel poverty; no more food banks; no more obscene profits for the few while the many face fear and desperation. No more government lies and corruption without direct accountability to the people. No more.

      Scotland deserves better, and to the shame of our political leadership, has done far better than this in the past! Let’s use the power that has lain hidden in that past to claim and shape our future.’

    51. Derek says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      21 July, 2022 at 7:43 pm

      @James Che –

      My concern about wolves and suchlike being reintroduced is that the landowners would have yet another excuse to keep us ‘plebs’ in the cities where we belong.

      Even as things are you can barely step off a single-track road without some busybody threatening to take down your particulars.

      We have a “right of responsible access”, which means that you can go where you wish – if it’s safe to do so, which rules out shoot-y places from the 12th onwards – as long as you leave as little evidence that you’ve been there as possible. There’s also a network of drove roads that’re quite handy.

    52. sarah says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 10.35: thanks for giving the text from Salvo.

      It looks eminently practicable and hugely desirable – Scotland’s Constitution for the common good instead of profiteering and politics. Couldn’t ask for anything better.

    53. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah (10.51) –

      Hear hear.

      I can’t see anything unreasonable or objectionable about any part of it.

      No doubt we’ll get some ‘constitutional expert’ rocking up at any moment to tell us where we’re all wrong.

      😉

    54. Robert Hughes says:

      I signed/joined SALVO a couple of weeks ago and couldn’t give an airborne expletive what the negatrons say . They can keep flogging the * next * G.E / S.E / Referendum / Second Coming / Omega Point/Singularity as much as they want : I’m convinced absolutely NOTHING will come of any of it .

      This speaks to me and whether it’s ” practicable ” or not – everything * novel * is deemed such , until it isn’t – it’s worth pursuing in it’s own right as something we should aspire to …..

      ” No more big corporations raking in breath-taking profits from our energy resources while the people go cold and hungry. No more special tax deals or huge contracts to government pals, deals that leave an economic deficit to be made up in more ‘austerity’ for the ordinary Scot. No more hungry kids; no more pensioners trying to survive on half the living wage after paying into their pensions all their lives; no more fuel poverty; no more food banks; no more obscene profits for the few while the many face fear and desperation. No more government lies and corruption without direct accountability to the people. No more. “

    55. Robert Hughes says:

      deemed ” impractical ” that is !

    56. Andy Ellis says:

      This speaks to me and whether it’s ” practicable ” or not – everything * novel * is deemed such , until it isn’t – it’s worth pursuing in it’s own right as something we should aspire to …..

      It’s great if what Salvo puts on the table speaks to some people, encourages them to get involved and to think about where our country is headed and what the alternatives might be. It’d be hard to disagree with anything in the statements quoted, which seem like “motherhood and apple pie” stuff.

      The question is whether an informal “ginger group” is actually going to produce results that the other processes some of those promoting Salvo as an alternative to have failed to produce. It’s certainly possible, but in what timescale and when will we know the threshold for them to act has been reached? Having Scottish equivalents of Catalan organisations like Omnium or their Committees for the Defence of the Republic seems like a good thing (although that may not be how Salvo sees itself), but the Catalans still see their route to actually achieving independence as through political parties and a referendum.

    57. sarah says:

      @ Robert Hughes: Aye. It lifts the heart to see what could be done. Come on Scotland’s masses – force our politicians to see what can be done!!

    58. Ottomanboi says:

      ICONIC.
      The day Western Civilization literally went up in flames.
      https://archive.ph/GsmRF
      Will anybody make a movie of the 2x fires that destroyed the Glasgow School of Art?
      Another litany of errors and incompetence.

    59. Daisy Walker says:

      @ John Main re, ‘Ah, James, hate to break it to you like this, but we sold out on our “right to roam” when we all complied with it being taken away because of “Covid”.

      That’s the awkward fact about rights. They can’t be conditional. Our more-or-less universal acceptance that that “right” could be suspended, just went to show it was never really a right at all.’

      John your above statement is wrong. The Orange Order claim to have a right to march on roads… whether that is correct or not I don’t know, it is certainly accepted as a right, however it is accepted that the general public have a right to access and use roads.

      These roads are, however, regularly, and legally, temporarily closed, to allow for essential maintenance, due to heavy snow fall, due to gas leaks, and/or due to fascilitate public marches.

      You yourself use the word ‘suspended’ which I would suggest is accurate. If the ‘right’ did not exist, they would not have to use the word ‘suspended’ and would just tell folk, ‘your not getting to use this anymore’.

      Are we wise to suspect misuse and sharp practice? Absolutely, but that is not the same as the foundation right not existing in the first place, or having been over written.

    60. Ottomanboi says:

      Why we are, where we are.
      https://wentworthreport.com/2022/07/22/wests-leadership-crisis-is-about-to-get-worse/
      In Scotland’s case there is no question of «about to».
      WYSIWYG…GIGO.

    61. Mark Boyle says:

      Happy “Bought And Sold For English Gold” Day!

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/activity-and-adventure/disastrous-attempt-empire-building-cost-scotland-freedom/

      Excellent article on the Darien disaster.

    62. Republicofscotland says:

      Links to the Telegraph a known MI5/6 outlet for disinformation, Peter Oborne soon realised what it stood for, now its funded by Bill and Melinda Gates.

    63. Republicofscotland says:

      From Alba’s Kenny MacAskill.

      “I’m ejected for five days but you can come and go as you please [to Westminster] if you lie or if you’re a sex pest, bully your staff, or even avoid paying your taxes. The latter indeed seems to be a prerequisite for some Cabinet jobs.”

    64. Breastplate says:

      Mark Boyle,
      The link is behind a paywall or a month free trial.

      But what little I could read sets a well known tone with English newspapers regarding Scotland.

      RepublicofScotland,
      That’s an excellent quote from Kenny MacAskill.

    65. Breastplate says:

      John Main,
      I agree with you regarding the erosion of our rights. Unfortunately, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
      There were enough of us willing to beg to have our rights removed, temporarily or otherwise.

    66. Mark Boyle says:

      Breastplate says:
      22 July, 2022 at 10:36 am

      Mark Boyle,
      The link is behind a paywall or a month free trial.

      But what little I could read sets a well known tone with English newspapers regarding Scotland.

      Translated: “Because this is behind a paywall, I am going to make up that it was an anti-Scottish piece to suit my own kneejerk prejudices, confident in that most of those reading this won’t bother to check.” @_@

      As the article says, “It was ambitious, bold and farsighted – never mind that Spain already claimed ownership of the region – and had it worked, Scotland would have secured its future, its sovereignty, and may have even rivalled the English as a world power.”

      It also points out that it wasn’t until 1972 that Colonel John Blashford-Snell became the first person to cross from one end of the Darien Gap to the other, and that even with vehicles and bloody aircraft dropping supplies they nearly all died and that he vowed he’d never do anything as “stupid” again. The area is littered with human bones from illegal immigrants from South America trying to head north – the Darien Gap (a popular route because it isn’t watched for reasons that soon become apparant) is frequently where their luck runs out.

      “All of which serves to highlight the incredible bravery – or perhaps the staggering naivety – of the 1,200 Scots that made landfall in the Gulf of Darién on November 2, 1698. Of all the strips of land in all the corners of the globe, it was this uncharted, mosquito-ridden wilderness that their superiors chose to send them with the objective of starting a successful colony. Bar a few abortive forays in North America, it would be Scotland’s first and last attempt at empire building and a farce that would kill hundreds, bankrupt the nation, and eventually strip it of independence.

      Civil wars, famine and the decline of its once thriving shipbuilding industry meant Scotland faced a crisis at the end of the 17th century. Its economy was on the brink and there were two prominent schools of thought when it came to solving the problem: closer union with England, or efforts to become a mercantile power like its neighbour to the south. The latter unsurprisingly won, and in 1695 the Company of Scotland was founded with a remit to establish trade with Africa and “the Indies”. Its efforts were hindered, however. Pressure from the East India Company, fearing a challenge to its monopoly, prompted English and Dutch investors to withdraw their initial support, leaving no source of finance but Scotland itself.

      Undeterred, the Company of Scotland managed to raise £400,000 (equivalent to around £60m today and around a fifth of all the country’s wealth), thanks to donations from around 1,500 Scots from every level of society. The project had its funding.

      The Isthmus of Panama was logical in one sense. Creating a gateway between the Atlantic and the Pacific – more than 200 years before the construction of the Panama Canal – would surely have proven lucrative. It would have meant sailors taking fewer hazardous journeys around the Horn, with Scotland taking a cut of all the trade coming through. William Paterson, one of the Company’s directors, championed the idea. He had been convinced by Lionel Wafer, a Welsh explorer, that the isthmus was a rich, fertile land brimming with friendly locals (Wafer had spent around a year there in the early 1680s, living with the Kuna).”

      Hardly “anti-Scottish”, is it?

    67. James che says:

      The Scottish “Claim of Right” is not a Principle.

      It is a legal document and is part of the treaty of the union, therefore is binding as contractual by both England and Scotland,
      Legally it is the foundation of Scotlands Constitution.
      Agreed and ratified by Englands parliament and Scotlands in 1707.

      Much More than just a principle or theory.

      If you want to be a voice, if you want to be heard, and you want better governance in Scotland

      Sign up at Salvo , inform and advise you’re friends and relatives to do the same. Let the people make this change legally happen for good of all people living in Scotland 🙂

    68. James che says:

      Daisy Walker.

      Cheers. Many thanks,

    69. Breastplate says:

      Mark Boyle,
      Thanks for posting it up. You are correct, it is a decent article on the Darien scheme and offers back-handed compliments to the very good principles behind the ‘adventure’.

      “Hardly “anti-Scottish”, is it?”

      Does it fulfil my suspicions regarding Scotland not being able to cope with the failure of the plan?
      Yes, yes it does.

      I’ve read quite a few articles about the Darien adventure and how it bankrupted Scotland and how then we had no option but to have a union with England to rescue us from ourselves and I’m sure you have read them too.
      Is that ingredient there too?
      Well surprise, surprise, it is?

      “ ..it would be Scotland’s first and last attempt at empire building and a farce that would kill hundreds, bankrupt the nation, and eventually strip it of independence.”

      Nothing has changed regarding the relationship between the failure of the Darien adventure and the insistence that Scotland needed a Union with England because of this failure.

      Scotland did not need a Union with England because of this.

      We obviously have different ideas what anti-Scottish is but that’s probably just my imagination fuelling my “kneejerk prejudices”.

      Thanks again for posting the article so people can make up their own minds.

    70. Breastplate says:

      Sorry, I forgot to address the tone of the 2 lines that I could read from your link, Mark.

      “The disastrous attempt at empire building that cost Scotland its freedom

      On this day in 1706, Scotland signed away its independence having been bankrupted by a farcical attempt to build a colony in the jungle.”

      Just out of curiosity, as it’s the only 2 sentences visible, I saw it as a negative tone.
      What sort of tone did this set in your opinion?

    71. James che says:

      Derek,

      I agree with you, about the shooty places,
      Recently over the last few years I have taken note of a few changes beginning to happen that are not favourable to people cooped up in the town or country for that matter,
      Scottish Councils are closing minor roads by leaving them un-repaired, where small bridges that succumbed to winter storm damaged have had road closed signs placed at each end of the roads for up to three years,

      ” Right of way tracks ” are being blocked by planning permissions given by Councils to build a house smack bang in the middle of them, with no alternative route provided at the site.

      And farmers are being allowed to plough these tracks up without a peep from the Councils highway and byways department.
      Or from the green goblin brigade.
      It is a slow stealthy roundabout intrusion on you’re and my rights to roam in Scotland,

      During Covid many people who hadn’t been paying attention were suddenly shocked to find under lockdowns local Councils had been busy and let many more of these go, and it was to late to protest.

      If this re- wilding the world, of which Scotland is on that global list, many more recreation sites will be of limits to the public in Scotland.

      We need to make these big corporations, charities that hold land ownership on a large scale,
      The scam of buying 1 or 2 acreages of Scotlands natural woodlands and forests,
      people whom own up to thirteen private scottish estates with global ideologies mostly for tax evasion,
      There is a lovely castle by us that has PRIVATE KEEP OUT signs that surround entry points, this castle is owned by someone that also owned a Scottish Island, never lived in it, then sold it to a russian fashion lady oligarch whom again never lived here, but uses it as a tax dodge,
      The Island was sold above the price locals whom lived there could afford.

      As long as we do no harm to the wildlife we have, and take our rubbish back home to put in a bin if there is none provided, or give heavy fines for those caught littering,
      Replant with natural trees and native flowers, and not cut down existing trees,
      We can manage our own beautiful Country ourselves, thank you very much, without interference from councils or faraway summit meetings trying to make all Countries like a standard template replica.

      Lets make that change in Scotland for you and me,
      Sign up to Salvo, and give freedom back to Scotland.

    72. Hatuey says:

      The usual naysayers are prodding and groping at the fabric of Salvo now, looking for a loose strand that they can pull on that will lead to its unraveling.

      Where other strategies for getting us from A to B have clearly failed, are continuing to fail, and seem doomed to forever fail, relying always as they do on permission from our colonial overlords in London, Salvo’s beauty and strength as an idea is that it starts at the destination.

      The Scottish people already have sovereign power, they had it all along, and all that’s required is that we make them aware of it.

      Just as England’s sovereign retained prerogative powers after the Treaty of Union was signed, so too did Scotland’s sovereign, which is (as a matter of fact and not opinion) the people.

      James Che’s comment above on the ‘claim of right’ being enshrined in the Treaty of Union is correct and important. Everything follows from that. It’s noteworthy that the English Bill of Rights is absent from that document — they knew there were irreconcilable differences in those two constitutional keystones and they also knew that Scotland’s representatives could not compromise on the sovereignty of the Scottish people.

      Strictly speaking, it would literally be impossible to separate and remove sovereign power from the Scottish people; that’s what the ‘claim of right’ denotes and is all about. Sovereign power is always supplied conditionally, on the condition that it can always be withdrawn.

      Never underestimate the power and importance of an idea. In the months ahead many Scottish people are going to be thrown into abject poverty and misery, through no fault of their own. They will lose houses and jobs and much else.

      But whatever transpires, they will never lose their collective sovereign power. And I’m encouraged that when they hear this news at their time of need, and we explain that their country has an abundance of resources too, that their misery and poverty is unnecessary, that London rule, mismanagement, and exploitation depends on their consent and acceptance, that many will be more receptive to the point.

    73. Ottomanboi says:

      Two definitions of «culture».
      One anglosaxon the other continental European
      Spot the intrinsic difference in nuance, priorities.

      culture
      k?l?ch?r
      noun
      The arts, beliefs, customs, institutions, and other products of human work and thought considered as a unit, especially with regard to a particular time or social group.
      These arts, beliefs, and other products considered with respect to a particular subject or mode of expression.
      The set of predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize a group or organization.
      Mental refinement and sophisticated taste resulting from the appreciation of the arts and sciences.
      Special training and development.
      The cultivation of soil; tillage.
      The breeding or cultivation of animals or plants for food, the improvement of stock, or other purposes.

      Culture nf.
      Enrichissement de l’esprit par des exercices intellectuels.
      Connaissances dans un domaine particulier : Elle a une vaste culture médicale.
      Ensemble des phénomènes matériels et idéologiques qui caractérisent un groupe ethnique ou une nation, une civilisation, par opposition à un autre groupe ou à une autre nation : La culture occidentale.
      Dans un groupe social, ensemble de signes caractéristiques du comportement de quelqu’un (langage, gestes, vêtements, etc.) qui le différencient de quelqu’un appartenant à une autre couche sociale que lui : Culture bourgeoise, ouvrière.
      Ensemble de traditions technologiques et artistiques caractérisant tel ou tel stade de la préhistoire.

    74. James che says:

      Mark Boyle.

      I liked you’re earlier comment about the Greens no longer being enviromental, now their just mental, 🙂

    75. James che says:

      Hatuey.

      Excellent comments and far more eloquently said than I. Just what Scotlands needs right now are the positive voices,

    76. Confused says:

      The telegraph is good for obituaries and unintentional comedy, like the guy who claimed “don’t worry about brexit lads, the OIL will see us thru” (followed by desperate STFUps and “not in front of the jocks”. From wings itself, dealing with many myths

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/

    77. James che says:

      Rev Stu,

      Your site is invaluable to all of us here, we do try stay on track with your postings, for a while at least because they are good journalism at its best.
      And has done much more for Scots than you perhaps even realise yourself in keeping the hope alive when things seemed pretty dire,
      It seems most of us agree with you that nearly all of the Snp are not worth our loyalty any more.
      We seem to be of one opinion that every other mainstream parties in Scotland is viewed with as much disdain.

      There is a new hope growing in Scotland of alternative routes to speed up Scottish independence that has grown from the grass roots once more with the help of a few good intellectuals working hard.like your self and many others here in Scotland.

      You haven’t said you are going anywhere,
      However while it is in my mind, I would like to say a big thank you, thanks Stu.

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @James Che –

      Hear hear.

      We all appreciate this place and Rev’s decision to keep it going.

      BUT…

      The auto-moderation system is a mess and damages the site if Stu doesn’t keep on top of it.

      I asked yesterday that Lenny Hartley’s comment (posted sometime on Wednesday afternoon but no-one apart from Lenny can be sure) be released from moderation. My request was ignored. It was me who asked Lenny for his thoughts on the Arran ‘second home’ situation and he DMed me to say he would do a proper reply in the evening. He did so, spent a long time on it, had to check out various things to be sure before posting, then it went into moderation.

      Lenny can speak for himself but it’s safe to say that he is not impressed and has bailed out of the discussion entirely. Wings has lost a reader of long-standing and I do not believe that his comment infringed any of the moderation rules. The only way we can know for sure is if it’s published.

    79. Breeks says:


      Breastplate says:
      22 July, 2022 at 10:36 am

      But what little I could read sets a well known tone with English newspapers regarding Scotland…

      I started reading but stopped.

      For a start, it wasn’t uncharted territory, I believe the Spanish had Conquistadors had surveyed the area in some detail, trying in fact to do what the Scots were attempting.

      And to quote, “English ships were forbidden from trading with the colony for fear of upsetting the Spanish.” is complete bullshit. It was the East India Company and English ships jealous of the threat posed it’s own prosperity which put an embargo on any ship going to help the Scottish settlement.

      There wasn’t a lingering “feeling of betrayal”, there was a cast iron case of malicious interference leading straight to the East India Company and King William himself.

      If you want a much more detailed account of the Darien Scheme, there’s one here on Wings…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/

    80. Breeks says:

      Ha! Ha! I see confused beat me too it…

    81. Breastplate says:

      Hi Breeks,
      Confused already put that link up.

      The article does commend the idea behind the Darien adventure while making the assumption that the failure of the plan led to the situation that we find Scotland in now.

      The reason that Scotland is in this Union is down to as Burns puts it “a parcel of rogues”.
      Yes, their decisions to sell Scotland out may have included the Darien failure but I think we can all agree that there was no NEED to sell Scotland out.

      Greed was the reason Scotland got the shit end of the stick, some things never change.

    82. James che says:

      Breastplate.
      Breeks.
      Confused.

      Indeed, and to sell a Scotland under sovereign Scots feet that the Rogues did not own, for cash.

      More excellent journalism from Stu.

    83. James che says:

      Ian Brotherhood.

      Aye Ian I think many of us would not be here today still going if Rev Stu had not covered our darkest hour moments 🙂

    84. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      22 July, 2022 at 1:59 pm

      @James Che –

      Hear hear.

      We all appreciate this place and Rev’s decision to keep it going.

      BUT…

      The auto-moderation system is a mess and damages the site if Stu doesn’t keep on top of it.

      It was me who asked Lenny for his thoughts on the Arran ‘second home’ situation and he DMed me to say he would do a proper reply in the evening. He did so, spent a long time on it, had to check out various things to be sure before posting, then it went into moderation.


      I thought trying to beat the ‘auto-moderation bot’ was a fun game!

      The topic being ‘the Arran ‘second home’ situation’ I’m guessing the word that triggered moderation would have been a word most regular readers know to avoid.

      I was wondering why that particular word & the words more recently added to ‘auto-moderation’ were so offensive and I’ve come to the conclusion it’s the Rev’s way of trying to keep things on topic/interesting or at least not have the thread developing into a ‘bin fire’

      Rather than trying to figure out which word triggered moderation perhaps look at the topic of your post.

      Obviously it could get confusing if you are recommending well know remedies for indigestion or hemorrhoids and the auto-bot picks it up as a discussion about ‘2nd home owners’ or ‘the leader of Scottish Labour’

      My message to Lenny Hartley would be it’s nothing personal just keep posting.

    85. Ruby says:

      Does Mark Boyle not know how to archive links?

      How come nobody wanted to tell him?

    86. Andy Ellis says:

      The usual naysayers are prodding and groping at the fabric of Salvo now, looking for a loose strand that they can pull on that will lead to its unraveling.

      Where other strategies for getting us from A to B have clearly failed, are continuing to fail, and seem doomed to forever fail, relying always as they do on permission from our colonial overlords in London, Salvo’s beauty and strength as an idea is that it starts at the destination.

      Perhaps it’s more a question of asking honest questions and receiving no response? I’ve no particular axe to grind for or against, it just seems passing strange that nobody can answer fairly basic and simple questions about the organisation and how it is going to achieve its stated aims.

      For something that (presumably…?) aims to become a mass movement, isn’t it important that it can “sell itself”, and that those who are behind it can answer the basic questions? Otherwise it just looks like a lot of middle class people having a bit of a constitutional circle jerk.

      Starting at your destination sounds an awful lot like putting the cart before the horse to many of us. Convince us otherwise.

    87. Ottomanboi says:

      Greed/personal advancement, agrandisement is the principle reason so many chance their hand at politics. Such being the case, the time spent their snouts in the trough of ambition should be limited by constitution.
      There ought not to be such a creature as a dedicated «career politician».

    88. Republicofscotland says:

      They’ll be no independence until Sturgeon and her spineless and gutless MSPs and MPs are out of office and replaced by a strong indy minded FM.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/07/21/why-the-snp-mps-and-msps-are-silent/

    89. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Breastplate: another point re Darien which is worth repeating is that Scotland the country was NOT bankrupt. The Darien debt was private debt, that of the investors in the project and England and Spain did everything in their power to make the colony fail, let’s not forget.

      Scotland had no sovereign (i.e. state debt) worth mentioning, unlike England, which had had to borrow heavily to finance its many wars past and present.

      Some things never change……

    90. sarah says:

      Hi all you positive Salvo supporters!

      My letter has been printed in my local paper – theme “People Power over Profiteers and Politicians” – to start spreading the word locally that we have a fantastic Constitution and only need the politicians to be forced into applying it [have to say my local paper has a circulation of around 2000 – it’s not the P&J!] and I wrote to the National this morning. Also emailed Salvo’s email to around 30 local Yessers.

      Has anyone seen a Noticeboard entry for SSRG’s conference in the National? Or an article about Salvo? I haven’t.

    91. Mark Boyle says:

      Breastplate says:
      22 July, 2022 at 11:54 am

      Sorry, I forgot to address the tone of the 2 lines that I could read from your link, Mark.

      “The disastrous attempt at empire building that cost Scotland its freedom

      On this day in 1706, Scotland signed away its independence having been bankrupted by a farcical attempt to build a colony in the jungle.”

      Just out of curiosity, as it’s the only 2 sentences visible, I saw it as a negative tone.
      What sort of tone did this set in your opinion?

      Bearing in mind that it was actually setting the tone for a travel piece (in their adventure holiday section), it was typical Dreadnought – warts and all once you start reading it. Note well the article headline saying that it cost Scotland its freedom, no illusions there about it being any union of equals rather than a failed board of directors flogging what it saw as its property to the best bid for themselves and bugger the proles.

      [They were even more merciless about the holiday: “for £3,199 per person, including time in Panama City, boat transfers to and from the Darién Gap, and 10 days of chopping through overgrown jungle and wading through rivers, while carrying all your essentials and sleeping in hammocks. Or you could just stick with the Med.”]

      What I like about that paper is whatever biases they have are completely up front, and usually left to the columnists (who are routinely slaughtered by the readers in the comments section!) – which is probably why their readership is more forgiving of them when they back the wrong horse. I started reading it several years ago when I realised to my horror it was the only place I could read decent left-wing perspective pieces that didn’t appear to have been written by a four year old with learning as well as emotional difficulties or someone from a brainwashed cult. You get left wing stuff, right wing stuff, pro-environoment, anti-Climate Change, etc. all in successive issues, the way it should be. Or rather, once was!

      Part of it is – ironically – they’ve picked up a lot of old Guardian staff as that paper lost its moral compass. But the other part of it is old school pre-tabloid era journalism, something fast dying and indeed openly discouraged in other parts of the industry. At the other end of the spectrum are the Guardian, Mirror and Express – which are little more than unashamed brainwashing organs for brains already lobotomised as it is.

      That’s not to say the Dreadnought’s perfect – any paper that employs Gyles Brandreth in any capacity has a case to answer …

      The one part about the whole Darien business I wish was mentioned – and seldom is – was how much Darien was the victim of the spirit of the age. Lost in James II and William Of Orange’s 1688 And All That was the curious episode of a larger than life character called William Phips. In June 1687, amid the furore of the birth of the future Old Pretender, the Six Bishops affair and a notorious soap dodger called Issac Newton causing outrage at Cambridge University, Phips landed at Deal, back from what most sensible people had regarded as a lunatic expedition to find sunken Spanish treasure.

      To cut a very long and highly entertaining story short, everyone who invested in Phips expedition was reimbursed at £10 000 to the pound, mostly poor people or middling people buying one or two shares more as a “bet” like a lottery ticket than making a serious investment – and there was still enough left over to make the entire crew and their Indian diving team set up for life. It caused uproar in London, and kick-started overnight the formation of joint-stock companies and the investment craze where all manner of hitherto crackpot ideas were treated seriously enough for people to fling their money at. Darien was part of a trend that arguably continued until the South Sea Bubble of 1720 brought long overdue sobriety to investing.

      And you can’t blame them: £1 in 1687 is £167.16 in todays money … yep Phips expedition created overnight in London what today would be a swathe of millionaires. It says something as to how history treats upstarts (he was an orphaned shepherd boy) that he’s best known for the Salem Witch Trials (which – excuse the pun – he actually stopped …) and not for inadvertantly kickstarting modern capitalism.

    92. Mark Boyle says:

      Oops, sorry so much of that appeared in bold!

    93. Republicofscotland says:

      Sarah.

      Here’s another archived version as well.

      https://archive.ph/AOYNf

    94. sarah says:

      @ Republicofscotland: Many thanks! I see that was 9 hours ago so presumably it’s in today’s paper which I’ve not seen yet.

      Now we need a lengthy in-depth piece about Salvo’s findings…

    95. James che says:

      Tinto chiel.

      A point well made. That goes under the radar, it was private debt, not all of Scotlands debt,

    96. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says:
      22 July, 2022 at 2:51 pm

      If you want a much more detailed account of the Darien Scheme, there’s one here on Wings…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/

      I’d have a little more time for Stu’s historical interpretation if he didn’t airily dismiss “The English government of King William III – anxious to be on good terms with Spain” without bothering to establish the context why.

      Spain dominated the trading system but ironically thanks to Phillip IV being forced into converting all its debt into government bonds, which in those days paid X-Certificate levels of interest (and he was succeeded by the as incompetent as he was inbred Charles II). Both the English and Dutch along with their arch-enemy Louis XIV’s France made a fortune from a situation where Spain had trading with the Americas monopolised, but it was everyone else largely making the money from it.

      So of course William the Asthmatic wasn’t going to rock the apple cart or help anyone else do so – part of him was astounded at the Scots crassness. It was obvious the Spanish were never going to tolerate Darien, even if hardly in any position themselves to start a colony even if they wanted to – but being masters of the Americas was part of the national myth of Spanish predominance and avoiding the horrible truth they’d made a fortune and a massive empire and now were steadily losing the lot de facto with no way of stopping it (like Turkey, Spain’s day of reckoning was in the post, even if with a second class stamp and thus doomed to arrive several centuries later!).

      [It would also have been suicidal for William to have alienated the Hapsburgs – one of the few things keeping Louis XIV’s ambitions of conquoring all Europe in check, but that’s another topic entirely …]

      Scotland could have found other ways to get on the 17th/18th century gravy train – that we didn’t it could be equally argued was down to our historical tendencies to cut corners and convince ourselves it would all work out. Two sides to every story – in history often more …

    97. Hatuey says:

      Ellis, you asked for a timeframe. There you have an advantage because the strategy you support, which relies on Sturgeon, NATO, the international community, and Westminster, amongst others, comes with a very definite timeframe — never.

      Just as renowned experts can’t predict when a volcano will erupt, nobody can predict when a people will rise up and free itself from colonial tyranny. Incidentally, if there was ever any doubt about Scotland’s colonial status, it was removed with Brexit; the repeated denial of the mandates; and the Supreme Court ruling on Sewel, which made clear Holyrood has no power whatsoever, even over devolved matters.

    98. Andy Ellis says:

      Ellis, you asked for a timeframe.

      Yup I did….and answer came there none…just more deflection.

      So surely, if there’s no way “conventional” means are going to work, it’s even more important that reasonable questions about the alternative might be answered, or at least engaged with.

      Or not….apparently….

    99. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      22 July, 2022 at 6:52 pm

      I’d have a little more time for Stu’s historical interpretation if he didn’t airily dismiss

      It’s Stu’s historical interpretation

    100. Ruby says:

      Ruby says:
      22 July, 2022 at 7:51 pm

      Mark Boyle says:
      22 July, 2022 at 6:52 pm

      I’d have a little more time for Stu’s historical interpretation if he didn’t airily dismiss

      It’s not Stu’s historical interpretation!

    101. Merganser says:

      The Scottish Government has published the Lord Advocate’s written submissions on her application to the Supreme Court. It’s a lengthy read.

      Initial impression suggests trying to have your cake and eating it, and that the whole thing is a futile gesture as it would not have any legal effect anyway.

      Why does the SNP/Government want
      to pass an Act when they just want the view of the people on something which is legally meaningless in any event?

      If the Act had a meaningful legal purpose, that at least may have resulted in a judgement deciding the important point in question. The problem with this approach seems to be that the point won’t be definitively answered

    102. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a link to a new article by Sergei Lavrov, as published in Izvestia newspaper, which will be totally ignored by western media.

      Whether you agree with the contents or not, Lavrov is a serious player and what he has to say matters:

      https://www.rusemb.org.uk/article/764

    103. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: Lavrov has always impressed me as an experienced and steely-gazed master of his diplomatic brief.

      By contrast, Liz (“I’ve pure been to Paisley once , ken?”) Truss seems the kind of Foreign Secretary who would have problems colour-coding her underwear drawer, a Maggie Thatcher Mk.II but without the compassion and intellect 😉 .

    104. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC (9.45) –

      Even post-watershed, ruminating on Truss’s unmentionables is a definite yellow card sah!

      🙁

    105. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B, in my defence, I submit the Paolo Maldini baby-blue-eyed ejaculation: “Oi nevva done nuffink, ref, innit?”

      Think I’ve just made things worse.

      Damn these snowflakes….

    106. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC (9.55) –

      Yes, you have made things worse.

      Early bath!

      *red card*

    107. Tinto Chiel says:

      *Throws jersey at manager and flicks the Joey Barton vickies at raging mob in main stand as he heads up the tunnel*

      “It was worth it, worth it, ya hear?”

      And so to bed 🙂 .

    108. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This sketch has become silly! Next please.

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT (10.21) –

      It was him started it!

    110. sarah says:

      @ BDTT: there’s worse things btl than just “silly”!

    111. Roger says:

      Are we discussing Liz Truss’s bloomers now?
      Okay…

    112. Tinto Chiel says:

      Quite right, Sarah:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycsfu4574w

      *Puts out cat and lights*

    113. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Overheard in a Saltcoats pub:

      ‘When yon Liz Truss wummin says ‘pork markets’ yer da gets a staunner!’

      😉

    114. Hatuey says:

      I did engage, Ellis. I’m a very engaging person.

      Can you tell us when your “bow at the master’s feet” strategy will deliver?

      Can you even explain it? Does it involve Nicola?

      They’ve tied you up in knots, haven’t they? That’s what happens. You might have twigged when they told you how important Ukrainian democracy was as they pissed all over yours.

      Do you and NATO have a timescale for Ukrainian liberation? Lolz.

    115. Breastplate says:

      Tinto chiel @ 5:55pm,
      I think you’re correct.

      Mark Boyle @ 6:10,
      I think Gyles Brandreth is hilarious and a contender for upper class twit of the year.

      IanB,
      It’s all got a bit Monty Python.
      I think Liz Truss was actually in Paisley where she bought a pair of unruffled camomile knickers from the £ pound shop in the town centre for £18.50.

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Link for today’s edition of UK Column News.

      Some jaw-dropping stuff about the BBC’s ‘Unvaccinated’ documentary. Not so much about the content of the programme (which was just blatant propaganda for Big Pharma/govt) but the CV of the presenter.

      Make sure to don your tinfoil hat before viewing!

      https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-column-news-22nd-july-2022

    117. Mark Boyle says:

      @Breastplate

      Gyles Brandreth only wishes he was upper class. Lord knows he’s tried to be all his life, and thinks by constantly fagging himself to them he can “achieve” it.

      He was one of Lord Longford’s mates when the bastard was trying to get Myra Hindley out of prison – when the public outcry started, he dropped his mate like a red hot brick.

      The sycophantic little w**k co-founded “Games & Puzzles” back in the 1970s and was involved with the British (read “English”) board games circuit, in particular Scrabble, which he wrote many books on. As the 1974 Scrabble champion Richard Sharp dryly observed, he was the living proof that writing books on a topic did not necessarily equate to having a clue about it, let alone mastery [Richard was a professional translater who incidentally was the living embodiment of “Amersham Man” – he regarded the Daily Telegraph as “communist”!] …

      When I was a kid, there used to be a BBC programme called Star Turn, run by Graeme “Goodies” Garden and Bernard “In Bloody Everything Since The Dawn Of Civilisation” Cribbens, which was a parody of quiz shows best known for its “Ivor Notion” detective section, which ran for a successful five years and enjoyed a who’s who of the most articulate of British comedy and children’s telly such as Kenneth Williams, June Whitfield, Johnny Ball, Brian Cant, and of course his two co-conspirators from The Goodies.

      Brandreth was given leave by the BBC to run a thinly disguised rip off called “The Railway Carriage Game” in 1985. It attracted such entertainment heavyweights as Stan Boardman, Barbera Windsor, Jimmy Cricket and Les Dennis. To utterly no one’s surprise except the BBC Board, its viewing figures were calamitous, and it was dropped after one series.

      The Paisley Pound Shop in the High Street?” All of Paisley high street that’s proper shops (rather than pubs, tattoo parlours, charity shows, pharmacists reliant on dispensing methodone to survive and the ubiquitous W.H. Smiths) is bloody pound shops! Even Marks & Sparks gave up the ghost after ninety years.

    118. Breastplate says:

      Mark Boyle,
      I didn’t know that about Brandreth, the BBC always had their favourites, naming no names, guys and gals, rattle, rattle, jewellery, jewellery.

      I just remember him being absolutely atrocious at countdown, slightly better than Ted Moult who regularly astounded us with 3 letter words.
      I use to piss my self laughing.
      It was genuinely entertaining, but perhaps just for me.

    119. Scott says:

      Breastplate says:
      23 July, 2022 at 12:42 am

      I just remember him being absolutely atrocious at countdown, slightly better than Ted Moult who regularly astounded us with 3 letter words.

      Gun has three letters.

      Ted Moult shot himself. His body lay undiscovered for days. Nobody heard the shot, as he’d just fitted the best the previous week. May he everest in peace.

    120. Breastplate says:

      Scott,
      I remember the Everest advert and had totally forgotten he’d shot himself.

      I know nothing about his personal circumstances but I would imagine that you’d have to be under incredible strain to take your own life.

    121. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      22 July, 2022 at 9:05 pm

      Here’s a link to a new article by Sergei Lavrov, as published in Izvestia newspaper, which will be totally ignored by western media.

      Whether you agree with the contents or not, Lavrov is a serious player and what he has to say matters:

      https://www.rusemb.org.uk/article/764

      Were you trying to trigger the ‘auto moderation bot’ ?

    122. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ian , thanks for that the man in question is a favourite of mine – he has gravitas and humour and of course does not suffer fools as Ms Truss may have noticed or maybe not.

    123. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland has never, in recent times, looked more politically irrelevant than it does now.
      The doctrinaire, one size fits all SNP more strategically adrift.
      A heroic nation led by mules, not even good for dog meat.

    124. Breeks says:


      Ian Brotherhood says:
      22 July, 2022 at 9:05 pm
      Here’s a link to a new article by Sergei Lavrov, as published in Izvestia newspaper, which will be totally ignored by western media.

      Whether you agree with the contents or not, Lavrov is a serious player and what he has to say matters:

      I try to be cautious, because there is a long history to the propaganda war between East and West, and equally irrational people on both sides I suspect. But having said that, Sergei Lavrov is not irrational at all, but very persuasive and convincing in his arguments.

      But what strikes me most about Lavrov, isn’t Lavrov at all. It’s the extent to which the Western narrative seems to be falling apart all by itself even before we get to hear the other perspectives. I don’t need the Ruskis to tell me Western powers are lying.

      I remember all the carry on around the Skripal nerve agent poisoning, with military specialists in bright yellow Hazmat suits allegedly making the area safe from deadly neurotoxins. All looking very alarming… except.

      Except in one of the Press photographs taken further back, it’s quite clear there was a policeman standing about 10ft away from the guys in Hazmat suits, and he wasn’t wearing so much as a face mask.

      Now even if that was a suspected explosive device, nevermind a lethal neurotoxin, all civilians, even unprotected policemen, would all be evacuated from the immediate vicinity and put behind a cordon. The fact the PC was standing there made the whole drama of the Military in their Hazmat suits look totally implausible, as if it was all being done for show… in other words, staged.

      Are there other ways to interpret the policeman’s presence? Yes, perhaps there are. But when have you ever seen a PC in ordinary uniform standing 10ft behind a bomb disposal guy? Yet these army guys were ultra-special specialists. The Occam’s Razor explanation would be knowledge there WASN’T any nerve agent there, and the suits were there for the cameras.

      The West seems addicted to military spending. Arguably, their economies would struggle without it, or at least, it has a massive leverage when it come to lobbying governments.

      We are heading into dangerous times I think, because once BRICS really gets it’s act together, the Islamic nations, and I suspect many South American and African nations, will be queuing up to join.

      I think the West, particularly US and UK have been monumentally arrogant and stupid for decades, and the roll of lobbyists, Corporations, and interest groups particularly banking and the military, and I think Zionism too, has been out of control for a long time.

      But I think the rest of the World has not been particularly clever either, and been too predictable in their responses, and “played the game” precisely as the West expected them to. When the West set up a trap, they’ve all to often waltzed into it.

      But I think that’s changing.

      The USA and Brexit England really didn’t like the EU, saw it as a threat, and cried crocodile tears about all the refugees putting strain on the EU as they fled wars in North Africa and the Middle East which were awash with Western arms. (Remind you of anywhere that begins with U?).

      But if they thought the EU was a threat to the hegemony of the US dollar, just wait until BRICS gets better coordinated.

      Think about it; the military might of both Ruskia and Chi na, the industrial capacity of both plus that of India, the enormous population centres of consumers, the Islamic world seems almost certain to embrace BRICS, and so will much of Africa. We are already entering the territory of a New World Order, and a lot of Western chickens coming home to roost.

      Remind me again, who exactly lined up for juicy Trade Deals with Brexit Britain?

      Scotland, ffs, place your hands on the eject lever, and pull… Take command of our vessel and set a course for Europe. EFTA, EU, SCOFTA, I don’t care, can we just go please?

    125. Mark Boyle says:

      Breastplate says:
      23 July, 2022 at 1:10 am

      I remember the Everest advert and had totally forgotten he’d shot himself.

      I know nothing about his personal circumstances but I would imagine that you’d have to be under incredible strain to take your own life.

      Ted Moult was actually a farmer, not an actor (he was famous for fifteen minutes for getting to the final of “Brain Of Britain”), and killed himself fearing his business had been ruined. He certainly made no fortune out of the Everest adverts to fall back on back in the days it was common to receive a pittance for doing a telly ad unless you were a big brand name with an agent. Suicide amongst especially arable farmers has long been a big problem.

      He was the beginning of the urban legend “The Curse Of Half Man Half Biscuit” where those mentioned in their songs shortly after come to an untimely death or complete career ruin. “D’Ye Ken Ted Moult” had been played in concerts and on Radio 1 sessions from 1985, but never appeared on record until a year after his death.

    126. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (9.07) –

      Thanks for that. Food for thought.

      No-one’s daft enough to believe that Russia or China aren’t capable of dirty tricks, staging false flag events and whatnot, but it’s the sheer scale of western aggression and the lack of accountability which is staggering. It’s become normalised.

      I asked on Twitter t’other day if anyone had a handy list of countries where the people are kicking up fuck about fuel prices, inflation, corruption etc. Haven’t received a ‘list’ as such but it’s happening everywhere. Remember a few weeks ago when we very briefly discussed Karakalpak? Craig Murray dropped in to say he knew of it and wrote a brief article on his blog but there was never a peep about it anywhere else. I checked last night and it seems there was a serious clampdown, protestors vanished, the internet was completely shut and only now is any contact being resumed. My point is that the situation of the Karakalpak people appeared on our radar, just fleetingly, and now it’s gone again. Approx 2 million people there and most of us had never heard of them and never will again if we’re relying on MSM for our knowledge of the world.

      And that raises an unfortunate truth – there are some folk, even some contributors here, who
      dismiss foreign affairs as if they’re irrelevant, that we should only be focussed on getting away from WM. That’s understandable if for no other reason than there’s just so much going on it’s impossible to keep on top of it all. But if we don’t make the effort to be aware of what’s happening elsewhere then there’s no reason why anywhere else in the world should be bothered about what’s happening to us.

      The same applies to all the issues that are waved away by some as ‘conspiracy theory’. We’ve been over this a thousand times but it still bears repeating – the UK govt has been complicit in creating wars, usually arm-in-arm with the US, for longer than any of us have been alive. Bob McNamara, ex Sec for defence in the US, stated openly that had they lost WW2, he, LeMay and every other senior US official involved in the firebombing of Japan would’ve been tried as war criminals, found guilty and executed. The same goes for Churchill, Harris and everyone else involved in destroying Dresden.

      But they didn’t lose, so they just carried on, emboldened, richer, more powerful than ever before. And now they’re enacting some kind of master plan. Call it the Great Reset or whatever else, doesn’t really matter what it’s called. Point is, it ends up with us as nothing more than drones, trapped in cities, living on shitey ‘food’, unable to travel, socialise, in a constant state of fear. This is what Lavrov seems to be alluding to – even if (as a diplomat) he has to draw the line somewhere, the fact that he’s referred directly to false flag operations at all is remarkable and would, under normal circumstances, be front-page news. But we’re not ‘allowed’ to hear him, or his boss.

      The BBC has been caught red-handed, again, with its laughable effort to intimidate people into accepting that the jab is safe. But it’s not working anymore. Folk have had enough. I spoke to a couple of young folk yesterday (early 20s) who have both had two jags. I asked them about the next lockdown and it was like flicking a switch – they both insisted that there will be no more jags, no masks, they will not observe lockdowns of any sort. It’s over. But the simple fact that the BBC continues flogging this rubbish is proof that it was never about health, science etc. It was, and still is, about instilling fear.

    127. Hatuey says:

      Had he not most tragically departed, could anyone make an informed guess as to what his position on Brexit and Scottish independence might have been?

    128. sarah says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 10.23: “The BBC… instilling fear.”

      A sobering start to the day, true enough.

      Let us hope that something cheering occurs later.

      Which reminds me, has everyone else btl spotted Nana’s twitter – very busy re-tweeting what we need to know?

    129. sarah says:

      Willie MacRae’s murder. See Grousebeater’s latest blog article reviewing the case as given in Ron Culley’s book “Firebrand”.

      When The National printed an article in 2018 that included the nurse’s evidence – bullet hole in back of neck, pointing downwards, it was clear that it wasn’t suicide. And the fact that he was transferred from Raigmore to Aberdeen – and without any notes/Xrays/phone call between the hospitals.

      Terrifying. Makes one worry for real activists who are fighting to restore Scotland’s independence.

    130. Oneliner says:

      There is much imagery of Che Guevara to behold. Enough to make the casual observer ask questions.

      Raising the profile of Willie MacRae (stickers, posters etc) is surely a worthwhile exercise. I know Mark McNicol tried it but the output looked like golf club merchandise. Whatever happened to Mark McNicol?

    131. James che says:

      Brief Sketch 1,
      Here I am in 1706 sitting in the English parliament, secreted away from the prying eyes that might leak information before our parliament is ready, discussing with my lords and the commissioners we chose to represent Scotland, about the set up of this coming treaty.

      Before we this meeting we held, we had to ensure everything was in place so the commissioners we choose could be manipulated, bend to the direction of our will.
      We sent people ahead into Scotland and by trickery arranged our Maritime Law of England into Scotland ready for the set up, this was excellent forward planning manouvre as this buried and over laid the laws in Scotland.
      With the help of the darien scheme we have these Scots barons and land owners by the short and curlies,
      They are desperate to save their own pockets and necks, not to loose out financial,
      We have also sent one or to spies ahead of our plan to attempt to blend in with Scots to garner the mood in the pubs and clubs.
      Preparation and long term planning is everything,
      Soon we will have to do something to weaken their kingdom and realm, perhaps we could wrangle a plan that would remove the right to their own king,
      We have sat here many times discussing how Scotlands down fall cannot be achieved from only one strategy, but must come from a pre- arranged set of circumstances.
      From making them aliens in our country to buying their loyalty, to ridding them of their king and future monarchy.

      A full on frontal assault would be to obvious, beside it would perhaps only be temporary. We must bind them to our future, under our monarchy, our laws, our rule of our parliament.
      So it is important that we ensure that our parliament is sovereign over all, that the laws of that verminous race which has been a thorn in our side for as long as can be remembered by those of us here,
      Wealth or the down fall of ” their” wealth and prestige will be our ultimate goal,
      Thus a set of plans, (and long term plans at that ) is to be in place ready to herd and corral these Scottish Oligarchs into our fold.

      Sitting here now, secreted away in our Great English parliament from prying eyes listening to them grovelling, selling their very soles, and all that belongs to them, even selling a country that does not belong under their ownership, naming their price to be shared amongst them, like thieves
      I have little respect for this vermin, and I doubt this parliament will ever show them future respect, for they have crawled from under stones to be here.

    132. Mark Boyle says:

      Oneliner says:
      23 July, 2022 at 12:38 pm

      Raising the profile of Willie MacRae (stickers, posters etc) is surely a worthwhile exercise. I know Mark McNicol tried it but the output looked like golf club merchandise. Whatever happened to Mark McNicol?

      If Siol nan Gaidheal couldn’t manage it in the 80s and 90s with a much freer Scottish press than we have today, there’s zero chance of it ever becoming the national scandal it ought to have become, especially with Dounraey now shut down and undergoing decommmisioning – in the public consciousness it’s all very “yesterday’s news”. Seem to remember Sturgeon herself was the one who shut down there being any public enquiry into the matter.

      I remember when the “Nuke Wick” story broke while still at and couldn’t believe the manifest indifference to it. Had the same story broken about some area of England being threatened with the same, everyone from the surrounding counties – never mind the locality – would have gone mad.

      Mark MacNicol was just someone using the McRae scandal to try and kickstart his career as a “playwright”. Once he realised he was Johnny Come Very Lately and it had already been done, many times before, he changed tack. To quote:

      “I believe it is likely that Willie McRae committed suicide and I feel the time has come for his family, friends, and also the witnesses, to be left in peace … For me though the real point here isn’t Willie’s suicide. It’s the way his death was used by people with a specific agenda. Despite the absence of facts and proof people (myself included) relayed conspiratorial theories and they became a national myth of tsunamic proportions. For many their enthusiasm was everything to do with being pro independence and anti establishment and little to do with holding UK Security Services to account.”

      https://markmacnicol.com/willie-mcrae/

      Pardon my language, but you are talking shite MacNicol. People blowing their own brains out with a pistol are not capable of wiping the gun clean of fingerprints, throwing it sixty feet out of the car into a nearby burn, before neatly folding their hands on their lap and waiting to die. You don’t have to be Quincy or that weird bird in “Sherlock” to know that one about the trauma a bullet head would does to motor functions controlled by the brain.

    133. James che says:

      Brief sketch 2.

      We are sitting here once again in our great English parliament, opposite us are those blethering greedy fools,
      We are discussing how someone may have leaked the information of the upcoming union between the two parliaments of England and Scotland, if this news spreads before we are ready all hell could break loose.
      For us here in England, although some may not warm to the idea immediately,
      I believe eventually it will be an easy sell, for we just have to explain about how Englands acreage has grown, how we have gained taxes for england from the Scots heads, how we have gained taxes from trading scottish ships through our ports down here,
      And our wealthy in england can have and own private property in Scotland if we make them a duke or earl of some piece of land or perhaps our english monarchy could have a permanent holiday home in Scotland.
      In fact a very beneficial business deal for England all round,
      No I think once the rest of england becomes used to the idea of so much gain and little financial out goings they would not be to willing to give it up.

      The problem we have and are discussing today, is what to do with the rest of the Scots we did not buy?
      We have been discussing wether to give them a vote to join the three Scottish estates in the proposed union of parliaments,
      I personally do not think this a good idea, I have had letters from our spies up in Scotland, the Scots have got wind of what is about to take place,
      According to the letters I have received, they are a riotous bunch that are uncontrollable, and are beginning to cause problems objecting and protesting publicaly.

      I have convinced those here that we should not put it to a vote in Scotland, for the Scots would probably vote against a union between Scotland and England,
      So it shall remain a union between the two parliaments under one crown. Other wise the risk is to great for England.
      The Remaining Scots in Scotland shall not be given a vote or be required to join,

    134. Hatuey says:

      Neither of those sketches gets to the heart of the matter. England had forces amassed on the Scottish border and in the north of Ireland ready to invade. They had already demonstrated their willingness to massacre Scots at Glencoe a few years prior to 1707 (a peculiar event that some historians want to attribute to rivalry between two Scottish families when it was English redcoats that carried out the atrocities).

      It is in that context of threatening and intimidating behavior that the “Treaty” was negotiated and signed. In essence, it was a surrender and the Treaty of Union represents the terms of that surrender.

      It’s worth pointing out that Scotland was a distinctly poor country back then and, as I understand it, was one of the biggest exporters of people in Europe in the second half of the 17th century.

    135. James che says:

      It is appropriate that we decide not to ask the rest of the Scots to vote on joining our treaty with the Scottish parliament the other day,
      Because the greedy fools sitting opposite have just informed the us that Scots are actually sovereign in Scotland, and that Scotland itself belongs to the Scots, the baffoons,

      They and have insisted on some Claim of Right or other be inserted into the Treaty.
      Let them I say, for what good is it to the rest of the Scots.
      For we have not required them to vote or join us, put it in if you want and we will ratify it. For all the good it will do them.
      At least it may make the rest of the Scots that we did not buy off, think they are included in the treaty,
      Honestly it is beyond the pale, that this group of Scottish parliament and commissioner idiots forgot to tell us they did not hold sovereignty over the Scots or Scotland.
      Well we will just have to bluff it through, pretend that the Scots are included,
      If we include This claim of right into the treaty it may actually be to our advantage in convincing, (even if not true) that all Scots are in the Treaty of union.
      I have suggested we hurry ratifying the treaty through before any other blunders may arise.

    136. James che says:

      Hatuey,

      I said you were on a roll the other day,
      I haven’t got to that bit yet, I am a bit slower than you, but I will refer people to your comments above though when I do, because what you say is pretty accurate.
      I am just got to the piece where the Scots were hoodwinked into believing they were included at the time the treaty was signed between two parliaments of Scotland and England, but not the Sovereign Scots.

      Actually I quite welcome yours an any one else’s take on the facts by adding, to the lead up, and aftermath of the Pseudo treaty that hoodwinks the Scots into believing they were part of the treaty at all 🙂

    137. sarah says:

      Tom Devine’s History of Scotland no doubt has some data on whether or not Scotland was a poor nation after Darien.

      I’m not sure that it was so poor. I know plenty of people worked in Europe as merchants and soldiers but isn’t that a sign of economic enterprise?

    138. Breeks says:

      With regard to Willie McRae, I’ve always found this testimony from one of Willie McRae’s close associates, Scottish UN Committee founder and secretary John McGill, to be chilling to say the least.

      https://www.electricscotland.com/independence/scotEUMcRae.pdf

      It’s not a long read, but wow!

      “Willie instructed me to drive to Pitt Street Police Station in Glasgow, where I was met by a police officer and two forensic
      scientists. I became a passenger in my own car being driven to Helen Street Police Laboratory in Govan to be informed there was a bullet hole at the lower end of the car chassis near the rear wheel arch. I’d been shot at.

      It’s just background information, not evidence, but given subsequent events… Well, draw your own conclusions.

    139. James che says:

      Brief Sketch 4

      I am still here sitting in a chamber of the English parliament two weeks after we have ratified the union of Scotland parliament to Englands parliament,
      With deep regrets, What a fool, an utter total fool I have been in my emergency, in my fear that Grasping and holding Scotland tight before it can escape blinded sided me,

      For now the reality hits at what was hurried,

      Although we in our debates here in the English Parliament decided not to give a vote to the Scots to join the treaty of the union along with the three estates of Scotland, We thought it wise at the time due to them perhaps rebelling against the treaty union,
      This has proved to be correct,
      We have sent an army of solders up to the borders to quell the rebellion from the Scots over this matter, ( see” Hatuey’s ” reference above and other commentary here on wings for clarification)

      But God help England that our fatal day should come when Scots realise that they have not been bound to this treaty we have schemed and planned for, for so long in England.
      That the error of my judgement should come to light in some future time for allowing that Dammed Claim of Right to be entered into our precious treaty by Scots whom I proposed were as baffoons and idiots.
      For I had supposed that they would never question how they were in a or tied to a treaty they had not entered,
      That our huff puff, bluff and propaganda could cover over the cracks and flaws that we had made in not asking or inviting the Sovereign Scots to join our treaty.
      Even with as much success as we have had in pretending/ hoodwinking all Scots to believe they were in and captured by our treaty, I and others here have failed considerable.

      For those idiots, those baffoons, those greedy Scottish slithering oligarchs that crawled to us from under the stones and dungeons of their castles that We here despised so much, should through their fear of retribution from their own ilk and laws of Scotland put one over on us at the last minute,
      With that freedom clause for Sovereignty of all Scots,
      The reasons grow ten fold here in our English parliament not to accepts or respect these sovereign Scots as equals by default.

    140. Republicofscotland says:

      On McRae’s murder didn’t a nurse who dealt with McRae come forward years later and say that he (McRae) has two bullet holes in his head, a remarkable feat to shoot yourself in the head twice and then throw the guns away from the car.

      Also I’m sure one of McRae’s old neighbours pointed out that there was shady looking guy following him (McRae) around, and that one morning the guy came running down the stairs from McRae’s close and straight out the front door trying not to look McRae’s neighbour in the eyes, not much later McRae only just escaped with his life from a fire at his flat.

      The guy (neighbour) didn’t report the shady guy at the time to the police as he was too afraid to do so.

      McRae was supposedly a supporter and member of Siol nan Gaidheal.

    141. Republicofscotland says:

      I really don’t want Sturgeon within a hundred miles of an indyref, I wish those treacherous b*stards SNP MSP’s would grow a backbone, get their filthy snouts out of the taxpayers trough, and dish the dirt on Sturgeon to get her out of Bute House.

      “THE SNP is to submit an application to intervene in the Scottish Government’s Supreme Court case on an independence referendum.

      The party’s national executive committee (NEC) unanimously agreed the decision on Saturday – on the recommendation of leader Nicola Sturgeon.

      The SNP’s ruling body said the party has the “legal standing” to put forward its political case.

      Lawyers are now being instructed to prepare the application and it is expected to be filed with the court in due course.”

      Even if by some miracle there is an indyref next year, and the UKSC comes down on the SNP’s side because of this, and because they know that Sturgeon will make a complete and utter balls up of it (That’s probably the plan) and it would be game over for years to come.

      “In a 51-page filing, the Lord Advocate argued the bill would not be “self-executing” and would have no real effect on the Union – which is reserved to Westminster – but would simply be to “ascertain the wishes of the people of Scotland on their future”.”

      We’re being played people.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20368663.nicola-sturgeon-leads-snp-try-intervene-supreme-court-indyref2-case%2F

    142. James che says:

      Sarah.

      I parallel your thoughts here, most if not all could be presumed as propaganda,
      I believe that England itself was struggling with massive debt at the time and the people of England as a country were suffering great poverty from umpteen wars that Englands monarchy and elite had waged.
      Where as the debt in Scotland was private debt amongst mainly those that signed the treaty of the union between the two parliaments,
      That Scotlands people suffered no worse or better than Englands people due to either parliaments greed, and selfishness.
      When the union took place the first suggestion by England that was financially struggling was that Scotland should take on part of Englands debt.
      Scotland did not suggest that England should take on Scotlands debt.
      Which speaks volumes.

    143. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Have a look at this 30-second video.

      Anytime we doubt that there is no limit to the cruelty of a system which puts profits before people, remember that wee boy’s face.

      If we don’t look after each other and fight the psychopaths trying to control every aspect of our lives, this is the future. Aye, we don’t sweep chimneys any longer but millions of children globally do similarly dangerous and disgusting work for next to nothing e.g. mining the rare metals we’ll all be using in our electric cars.

      twitter.com/asIiceofhistory/status/1550612667345145856

    144. Republicofscotland says:

      What the staging post in Scotland Governor General Alister Jack (Queen Elizabeth House Edinburgh) has been up to, and the gifts he’s received including free Rangers FC tickets.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20301159.scotland-office-three-years-alister-jack%2F

    145. James che says:

      Republicofscotland.

      Now you know why It is being suggested that the Snp have to go as soon as, and the english devolved Scottish government along with it.

      The Sovereign Scots people Constitutional Assembly must be up and running first,
      This is up the people of Scotland, they have the Sovereignty alone to legally arrange this,

      The devolved government swears an oath to the monarchy beforehand which in turn only recognises English parliament Sovereignty.

      A devolved english created government in Scotland breaching its promise and oath to the english parliament and crown can and would be done for Treason,

      The devolved governments hands are bound and tied legally, no matter which route it pretends to take,
      It is under English law, hence NS going to the Supreme Court.

    146. Republicofscotland says:

      Just to show how devious and deceitful the previous LA and Sturgeon were when it came to Martin Keatings Peoples Action.

      “Interesting to note that the Lord Advocates’ submission to the Supreme Court is very much on par with the Peoples Action. Indeed the refusal of the court to hear the Peoples Action has been used to re-enforce the fact that the current case meets the distinction made.”

    147. Republicofscotland says:

      Looks like the wannabe Speaker of the House and pretendy indyref supporter is at it again.

      https://twitter.com/geeman909/status/1550243674059161601/photo/1

    148. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my 4.35pm comment.

      It looks like its not genuine, though with Cozyfeet you never know.

    149. Breeks says:


      Republicofscotland says:
      23 July, 2022 at 4:40 pm

      Re my 4.35pm comment.

      It looks like its not genuine, though with Cozyfeet you never know.

      I dunno…. That story is in the Courier and it looks legit to me…

      https://archive.ph/Gvyf0

      Non archived link… https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/uk-politics/3517021/pete-wishart-suggests-amber-warning/

      The story looks legit, but he himself might be on the wind up. He’s even quoting Thatcher, “Where there is discord, may we bring harmony.” So he might be trolling Indy supporters right enough. As you say, who knows with Wishart?

    150. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey

      Can you tell us when your “bow at the master’s feet” strategy will deliver?

      I don’t have any master Hatuey. None of us know when independence will happen, we can only make our own predictions based on what strategies we feel are more likely. As I said, I’m open to persuasion that novel routes like those being proposed by some in here could work.

      I’m just not convinced they will happen in a reasonable timescale, in particular I’m sceptical they’d produce results faster than pushing for a Yes vote in a plebiscitary election. The thing is, the proponents of new routes to independence still have to convince a majority of people to sign up and endorse their plans.

      Part of that process ought to be answering reasonable questions about how it will work. It’s fair enough if you personally are unable or unwilling to do so, but you’d think someone involved would be able to do so? So far….nada.

      Can you even explain it? Does it involve Nicola?

      Why would the strategy involve Nicola? Plebiscitary elections will necessarily involve the SNP, whether Nicola is still in charge or not. Much as some in here might think the SNP is going to disappear overnight, or be humbled, realistically that just ain’t gonna happen.

      Hopefully the party will change from within, though I wouldn’t be too hopeful about that. Even then, I’d lay odds that’s more likely than some of the Brigadoon levels of wish fulfilment being spouted by some of the folk in here. Anyhoo, as an Alba member, I’ve no axe to grind for the SNP or any other party. Building up alternative parties that might hold the balance of power and force the SNP to be more radical seems a more plausible future than UDI or “cunning new plans for independence” to me, but like I say…happy for you or someone more erudite to convince me otherwise. Over to you and the other “fans of cunning plans”.

      They’ve tied you up in knots, haven’t they? That’s what happens. You might have twigged when they told you how important Ukrainian democracy was as they pissed all over yours.

      Who is it you think have tied me up in knots exactly? “The Man”, or the Illuminati perhaps? Or just the WEF? Space lizards perhaps? Bill and Melinda Gates?

      I think all democracies are important, not just ours. None are perfect of course, least of all ours. I don’t know about you, but I doubt any of the alternative systems on offer would lead to better outcomes. However, if you’re convinced otherwise, doubtless you’ll be able to convince the good folk of Scotland to follow your lead.

      Some others here appear to think that Sergei Lavrov and his bunch of mates have a point and are worth listening to. Most of the population think that’s batshit insane of course, but being part of a fringe group has never really bothered those whose aim is ideological purity of course. They’re quite free to advocate for the establishment of a People’s Republic of course, but electoral reality has a way of dealing with Wolfie Smith types.

      Do you and NATO have a timescale for Ukrainian liberation? Lolz.

      I’ve got no idea. I’m pretty sure NATO has a few. The future isn’t ours to see of course. Anyone who thinks the end game (however long it takes) is victory for Vlad and his mates might be interested in buying some bridges I have to sell, if they haven’t already given their money to a Nigerian prince or to help in the establishment of the pretendy republics in the Donbas.

      One way or another, the war will end whether with a negotiated settlement and full peace treaty, or just with an armistice. It’s pretty doubtful NATO, the west generally and the majority of the electorates there will accept anything less than Vlad and his mates losing, even if they aren’t actually toppled. The EU will have new candidate members, Sweden and Finland will join NATO, and the neo-USSR will sink further back into being the nasty gangster dystopia it was already showing itself to be.

      Defence spending in the west will rise significantly, dependency on Vlad’s energy supplies will end, and the Chinese will realise that they’re no more capable of taking on the West any time soon than Vlad was taking on his one of his nearest neighbours.

    151. Breeks says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      23 July, 2022 at 3:56 pm

      “In a 51-page filing, the Lord Advocate argued the bill would not be “self-executing” and would have no real effect on the Union – which is reserved to Westminster – but would simply be to “ascertain the wishes of the people of Scotland on their future”.”

      We’re being played people.

      I dunno here Republic, I mean on one level, yes we are. But the Claim of Right isn’t just relevant in Westminster or Holyrood, but the Realm of Scotland.

      According to SALVO, the Scottish people have the power to overrule even the mighty Court of Session if our Constitutional powers are being infringed upon.

      So over to you Dorothy Bain. Compromise Scotland’s Claim of Right and see what happens…

      Maybe it’s Dorothy Bain who needs an open letter from SALVO…

      This could be the next step in the quickening… lol. There can only be one!

    152. Republicofscotland says:

      Breeks @5.25pm.

      I’m all for using the Claim of Right to exit this rancid union, who will wield it for us and when, and with so many indy supporters still wrongly believing that Sturgeon will deliver us from this union, who will, as Wallace said in the movie, “Unite the Clans” with the fractured indy movement in mind.

    153. Breastplate says:

      Ellis,
      You’re dreaming if you think NATO are going to wrench the “pretendy republics” and/or Crimea from the people that actually live there.

      My guess is that rather than the Russians losing, as you put it, they will help the new LPR and DPR secure their borders from further attacks from rump 404 for the first time since 2014 with a buffer zone.

      Time will tell, which one of us is correct.

      But just out of curiosity, what in your mind, does a Russian defeat look like?

    154. Breeks says:


      Republicofscotland says:
      23 July, 2022 at 5:51 pm

      I’m all for using the Claim of Right to exit this rancid union, who will wield it for us and when, and with so many indy supporters still wrongly believing that Sturgeon will deliver us from this union, who will, as Wallace said in the movie, “Unite the Clans” with the fractured indy movement in mind.

      I don’t know the inside track on anything, but between SALVO, SSRG about to have a Conference, ALBA facing down Westminster, and Alex Salmond working his arse off with the Wee ALBA Blue Book tour, AUOB marches, Faslane next week, it’s beginning to feel like YES is beginning to build up steam, with or without the SNP.

      What’s going to be pivotal I think is cohesion. Salvo is calling for a Convention of the Estates, and a lot of people are looking to create Constitutional “bodies” with all sorts of names, but to me, it looks like the same thing, so if we can pull ourselves together and focus, this Body, could be the spokesman for Scotland’s Community of the Realm, and then start throwing it’s Constitutional weight around.

      Nothing is coalescing so far, but a few Indy Groups are now steering on parallel headings…

      I’m not expecting it to happen at the SSRG Conference, but there’s a crowd of good people coming together for it, so who knows? Maybe the folks who’re not there will miss the bus…

    155. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      These days it’s getting to the point ya need to carry a “Better Call Saul” card! 😉

      Is the un-mandated move to abolish jury trials an over-reach of power impacting on Scots?
      One has to seriously wonder about individuals that have a desire to implement any policy that allows headlines like the following to be produced…

      https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/bain-doubles-down-on-judge-only-trials-as-tories-seek-to-protect-juries

    156. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian Brotherhood: “Aye, we don’t sweep chimneys any longer but millions of children globally do similarly dangerous and disgusting work for next to nothing e.g. mining the rare metals we’ll all be using in our electric cars.”

      Strangely, we haven’t seen frowning Greta Thunberg standing up for these exploited and miserable kids, particularly the ones in Congo mining cobalt. I don’t know who does the lithium mining in countries like Chile but it is dangerous to health in its natural state and is highly combustible (it is water reactive and can ignite spontaneously in air and produces poisonous gases when on fire: such fires are extremely difficult to extinguish).

      I find it absurd that the Greens and other so-called environmentalists place their faith in battery-operated cars which use very finite and damaging materials as the motive power and whose very bodywork is still highly energy-intensive.

      Things just don’t add up but that’s what happens when dogma and cherry-picking computer modelling take the place of scientific scepticism and proper scientific method.

      A generation ago Carl Sagan warned about the dangers of the “scientific consensus”. For him science was about scepticism, evidence and scientific debate. He would be appalled by the censorship of today’s cancel culture where those in power try to marginalise anyone who has an alternative view.

    157. Republicofscotland says:

      Thanks for the link Dan, this from it.

      Lord Advocate Dorothy Bain QC has claimed that juryless trials “don’t impact on the right to a fair trial”.

      Wow! that’s some statement from the LA, and should have us all quaking in our boots, I take from that, that anyone can be arrested appear before a judge, and sent to prison on the decision of the judge, a judge that could have been compromised, or is an ally of those that want you shut up, look what happened to Craig Murray.

      This is

    158. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dan: a bench trial would almost certainly have jailed and destroyed Alex Salmond. Our corrupt government and legal system in Scotland really don’t want juries because the buggers on the panel might come to the wrong decisions and that would be highly inconvenient for those in power.

      I think even a moral chameleon like Saul would begin to feel highly uncomfortable about the present situation in Scotland.

    159. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC (6.33) –

      ‘A generation ago Carl Sagan warned about the dangers of the “scientific consensus”. For him science was about scepticism, evidence and scientific debate. He would be appalled by the censorship of today’s cancel culture where those in power try to marginalise anyone who has an alternative view.’

      Aye, this ‘cancel culture’ is properly frightening and appears to be everywhere. We’ve seen loads of evidence of how the gender nonsense has paralysed serious critical thought, especially in the places where that should be most valued i.e. universities, civil service, police forces etc. There must be a point where the oppressive nature of this strange ‘signalling’ overrides the individual urge to point out that the Emperor has no clothes. Some weird symbiosis of self-censorship and mass psychosis.

      And we see it in political discussion too. Nary a peep has been raised by anyone about the banning of RT in this country. It simply isn’t possible for anyone to even inadvertently stumble across a Russian take on what’s happening. We see it in Ellis’s comment above – he is typical of those who cannot and will not address anything that presents an alternative to the BBC view of the conflict. He and his ilk have, effectively, cancelled ‘Russia’.

      And, of course, the same people still maintain pig ignorance in relation to vaccine damage. It doesn’t matter what evidence is produced, they hold to their only remaining defence i.e. that anyone who dares question the official narrative is a ‘nutjob’ etc. It would be funny if it wasn’t so cowardly and dangerous.

    160. Breastplate says:

      Tinto Chiel,
      I agree, I also believe that Julian Assange wouldn’t be sitting in Bellmarsh either if he had a jury.

    161. Breastplate says:

      IanB,
      I was talking to my brother today about the censorship we have now accepted without protest, we really are a compliant bunch of gullible fools at the worst of times.

      I really don’t expect much change going forward, hopefully I’m wrong.

    162. George Ferguson says:

      @Dan 6:13pm
      For insurance purposes can I apply for a ‘Better Call Saul’ card. The denouement of Holyrood, if there are no juries. The Scottish people are very compliant, aware of their civic duty and generally reasonable. I would want a jury of fellow countryman and women judging me if I was in the dock on a trumped up SNP inspired charge. The flip side of the Scottish nature, we can be as history shows, be a very aggressive combative people. The SNP need to withdraw this proposal. Nihilism means they are in trouble as well.

    163. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Breastplate: nothing shows the spinelessness of “journalists” in the UK more damningly than the Assange case. He has been held quite illegally in Bellmarsh for years. The Guardian (oh, the irony!) handed over their hard drives containing Wikileaks data for instant destruction by the authorities and the message was received by MSM newspaper editors that support for JA was not to be countenanced on any account.

      Churnalists and presstitutes is it? As Mr Brotherhood would say, “‘Kin’ right!”

    164. Dan says:

      @ Tinto

      Aye, serious questions also need asked about the wider “green” agenda being pushed. I’m sure it was Robin McAlpine that touched on the subject of folk not altering their behaviour and relying on tech to save the day just isn’t going to make a significant difference to the trajectory we are on.
      Leccy car production in its entirety needs proper scrutiny. That’s from the sourcing of all the raw materials, right through to end of life disposal.
      Likewise the addition of ethanol blended with petrol. Just how is all that ethanol being produced. It couldn’t possibly be through BigAgri practices which rely on subsidies, the production and use of chemical fertilizers, the burning of conventional fuels by tractors in the farming, and the energy used in the ultimate fuel processing and blending stages.
      The effects of ethanol blended fuel in older machinery is becoming ever more of an issue since the recent change to 10% ethanol from the previous 5% in some fuels.
      It’s like decisions are being made in isolation without due consideration for the wider knock on environmental implications that will occur.
      Aye, jist ignore that the constant heavy ploughing of our soils in the production of our food and now fuel releases sequestered carbon. And don’t concern yourself either with the ongoing industrial level production and global shipping in big dirty fuel burning cargo ships of machinery to replace all the stuff fucked up beyond viable repair by the implementation of some supposedly “great” “green” initiative.

    165. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dan: yes, it’s all about what you include in the great environmental equation and not just cherry-pick those elements in The Grand Sum which suit your prejudice.

      Looking at all those wind turbines, for example, I keep wondering about the cost of all that concrete, rebar, transport costs, access road costs, production of turbine blades und so weiter.

      You’ve been making these points for a long time from your entirely practical and enlightened POV but sadly the political class have neither the intelligence, integrity, backbone or vision to do anything about it (or anything else, frankly, they are all bought and sold IMO).

    166. Andy Ellis says:

      We see it in Ellis’s comment above – he is typical of those who cannot and will not address anything that presents an alternative to the BBC view of the conflict. He and his ilk have, effectively, cancelled ‘Russia’.

      Well no, that’s just an intellectually lazy soundbite on your part, attempting to other and cancel views you are ideologically opposed to: much the same in fact as you are accusing those you disagree with of doing.

      I’ve no interest in cancelling ‘Russia’: I want their actions to be widely seen, discussed and exposed for what they are. The same goes for the views of TRA extremists, anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists and regressive populists and nativist nationalists. Far better that unreason and those spouting it are seen pointed at and laughed at.

      Of course, those who fluff Lavrov as “someone worth listening to” will very often be those espousing anti-vaxxer conspiracies, regressive nativism or other woo-woo. Odd that in general they are on the “right side” with respect to gender woo, where they accept the mainstream scientific reality, and the view held by the overwhelming majority of the pubic.

      I’m quite happy discussing “alternative views” Ian, and confronting those advancing them. Perhaps you were keeping your head down at the time when others were insisting that Vlad and his great bunch of lads were just misunderstood, or that the people of “the country which shall not be named” had it coming?

      Maybe you agree with the Kremlin playbook about past events in the Donbas, who shot down the Malaysian airlines flight, that the Skripals poisoned themselves or that it was all MI6 fake news, that the claims of genocide and the need to de-nazify and demilitarise the country recently subjected to one of the largest conventional wars since 1945 are true. You are of course entitled to those views if you share them, or to see them aired and discussed even if you’re not sure or think they’re bollocks.

      Unlike Vlad’s country, you won’t be put in jail just for calling a spade a spade. The worst you can expect is being pointed at and laughed at for being a dupe. Of course, like a handful of denizens in here, you’ve somehow convinced yourself that your somewhat fringe views are shared by significant numbers in the movement, or even more surprisingly amongst the general public. I have a feeling you’re in for a bit of a come down as things develop. Time and events will tell.

    167. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Andy Ellis (7.58) –

      ‘Time and events will tell.’

      Yes indeed.

      Wise words!

      😉

    168. Sarah Mackenzie says:

      Blimey. Today btl started off dismal and isn’t getting any better!

      Cheer yourselves up by listening to Sara Salyers on a 15 minute video that explains brilliantly clearly what Scotland’s constitution is and how NOBODY can stop us cancelling the Treaty of Union.

      It is dynamite. I have just seen it on another Facebook site copied from Derek Kerr’s facebook dated 4th June. It looks as if Sara was speaking on the Raimond Dijkstra international podcast. Sorry that I don’t know how to provide a link.

      Please everyone watch and share this video.

    169. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Sarah M –

      Is this the one?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2sqfnbwFo

    170. Breastplate says:

      Tinto Chiel,
      Ah but if Assange was jailed in Russia, he would probably be in a cell without a pillow which would be much worse than the UK or the USA, who want to put him into the 5 star hotel in Guantanamo Bay.

      Fucking Russians are really, really, really a lot worser than our dear honest and truthful government.

      Thank God for the BBC and friends protecting us from alternative and dastardly news, it allows me to sleep safely in bed at night, with a pillow.

    171. Tinto Chiel says:

      Mr Ellis: “Unlike Vlad’s country, you won’t be put in jail just for calling a spade a spade.”

      Tell that to Julian Assange and Craig Murray.

    172. sarah says:

      Thanks Ian B but no – that is the Alba Conference version which is good but the Raimond Dijkstra version is explained even more clearly. I thought it might be on The People’s Doorstep Referendum facebook but can’t see it on a quick look.

    173. Republicofscotland says:

      Lets pay English student to learn in Scotland, and lets give them the vote on indy while they’re here WTF.

      “£3,000 to £5,000 in bursaries and scholarships are being offered to students from England, Wales and NI to entice them to study in Scotland. They can vote in an IndyRef franchise. (We don’t charge our students tuition fees; numbers are capped.)”

      https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1550488883116314626?cxt=HHwWhMC4pZTbuIQrAAAA

    174. Andy Ellis says:

      For those in Auld Reekie who are interested, a “Summer of Independence” Wee Alba Book event is being held at the Waterloo Place Hotel, Edinburgh EH1 3BG on Saturday 6th August 2022, 4-6pm, with Alex Salmond and special guests.

    175. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      You’ve got me very curious now – we must get a link!

      🙂

    176. Republicofscotland says:

      The Forde Report and the concerted efforts to show Corbyn as anti-Semitic.

      “Corbyn’s opponents in Labour were bad-faith actors who weaponised antisemitism.”

      https://dorseteye.com/forde-report-buried-by-corporate-media-right-wing-establishment-labour-party/

    177. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Breastplate: my comment is in moderation because I think I named the guy in charge of Russia.

      @Breastplate 8.32: you are obviously a P***n-fluffer so please don’t darken my cyber-door again 🙂 .

      I wish the internet had an irony indicator!

    178. sarah says:

      @ Ian B: can you get it from Derek Kerr’s facebook? His avatar [is that the word?] is a chap in skiing goggles and a dog. He posted the Sara Salyers video on 4th June.

      Thanks for helping!

    179. John Main says:

      @Breeks says:23 July, 2022 at 9:07 am

      “Think about it; the military might of both Ruskia and Chi na, the industrial capacity of both plus that of India, the enormous population centres of consumers, the Islamic world seems almost certain to embrace BRICS, and so will much of Africa. We are already entering the territory of a New World Order, and a lot of Western chickens coming home to roost.

      Scotland, ffs, place your hands on the eject lever, and pull… Take command of our vessel and set a course for Europe. EFTA, EU, SCOFTA”

      These two paragraphs are in direct contradiction to each other, Breeks. Let’s assume the first para is factually accurate. Then, nothing Europe, EFTA, EU, SCOFTA can do will amount to a hill of beans. Scotland is screwed regardless.

      (Not that I know what SCOFTA is, do you?)

      I guess the gist of your post is that we Scots should sign up to be part of the Russian imperium, or the Chinese one, perhaps the Indian one, or maybes just embrace Sharia.

      Which is your preference, Breeks? Developing a sneaky admiration for President P perhaps? You will be among friends here.

    180. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      Thanks for pressing us to look at Salvo etc more closely. Have to admit I’ve been very lazy and cynical lately and hadn’t even bothered following the Alba conference.

      Gave me a wee chill listening to her speak. Reminded me of seeing folk like Tommy Sheridan doing their stuff. Like music concerts, it’s just not the same unless you’re there, aye, but Sarah Salyers seemed to generate a really powerful response from folk. You can really feel it despite not knowing how large the audience is – they made a lot of noise at the end and it was joyous to hear. Very much looking forward to hearing much more from her too!

      😉

    181. John Main says:

      @Sarah Mackenzie says:23 July, 2022 at 8:15 pm

      “NOBODY can stop us cancelling the Treaty of Union”

      Who exactly is “us”?

      Seems to me the Bill Of Rights thingy goes both ways. Sure, Scots who want Indy have a right to be heard. But so do Scots who don’t want Indy.

      And right now, the latter group outnumber the former.

      Push the Bill Of Rights, UDI, route all you want Sarah. But at the end of the day, if the majority of us sovereign Scots don’t want Indy, it gets you nowhere.

      Just saying.

    182. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Mr Ellis, I noticed your comment @8.46 ignored my own @8.34, namely:

      ‘Mr Ellis: “Unlike Vlad’s country, you won’t be put in jail just for calling a spade a spade.”

      Tell that to Julian Assange and Craig Murray.”‘

    183. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah (9.02) –

      Sorry, we overlapped there.

      And sorry again but I don’t do FB.

      Maybe someone else can help?

      We’ll track it down yet!

      😉

    184. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Because it’s a bullshit false equivalence not worthy of response.

    185. Ian Brotherhood says:

      None of the P***n-bashers on here has yet made reference to a solitary statement by him, Lavrov, senior R***ian military commanders or state media that cannot be backed up by objective analysis of the situation on the ground as captured by independent media.

      The ‘bogeyman’ tack may be effective – and has been used so often that it clearly is – but it won’t wash here. Please credit other contributors here with some intelligence. If you have a serious point to make about what’s happening and can back it up, go ahead.

    186. Tinto Chiel says:

      Mr Ellis: “Because it’s a bullshit false equivalence not worthy of response.”

      And yet you did respond.

      So Assange and Murray were not jailed for speaking freely and embarrassing authority/power?

      Ok, then.

    187. Andy Ellis says:

      Please credit other contributors here with some intelligence.

      Does that include the ones who told us those in the country that shall not be named had it coming, Ian? That didn’t strike me as that intelligent, or a view with much resonance amongst ordinary folk.

      The fact it plays well with a small coterie of sophomoric fringe types in here isn’t fooling anyone.

    188. sarah says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood: “lazy and cynical lately” – I sympathise. It is an effort to keep going in the teeth of the resistance put up by our own side!

      However I know that I am a prisoner of hope but even so I really do think that this new information about our constitution could be the key. BUT the word has to get out so people understand that our parliament was NOT dissolved in 1707 and our Claim of Right is NOT subject to Westminster’s say so.

      Another passionate video clip is a pinned tweet on Denise Findlay’s twitter. Just 2 minutes of riveting, spell binding truth from Alex Salmond. That will get your blood stirring!

    189. sarah says:

      @ Dan: That’s the one!! Thank you.

      Have you listened to it yet? My husband thinks it is the clearest exposition yet of the strength of the constitutional position.

      The 50% plus who already desire Scotland’s independence will be added to as soon as people realise what has been stolen from us.

    190. Tinto Chiel says:

      *Taps Andy on the shoulder*

      Don’t wish to be a pest but you’ve piqued my interest so I’ll ask again:

      @Mr Ellis, I noticed your comment @8.46 ignored my own @8.34, namely:

      ‘Mr Ellis: “Unlike Vlad’s country, you won’t be put in jail just for calling a spade a spade.”

      Tell that to Julian Assange and Craig Murray.”‘

      Mr Ellis: “Because it’s a bullshit false equivalence not worthy of response.”

      And yet you did respond.

      So Assange and Murray were not jailed for speaking freely and embarrassing authority/power?

      Ok, then.

      Care to answer my question? Of course, you don’t have to if you can’t think of an answer.

    191. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan

      Tap away. The original response stands. I’m can’t be arsed schooling the unreasoning in how to have a sense of perspective.

    192. Mark Boyle says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      23 July, 2022 at 8:55 pm

      The Forde Report and the concerted efforts to show Corbyn as anti-Semitic.

      “Corbyn’s opponents in Labour were bad-faith actors who weaponised antisemitism.”

      https://dorseteye.com/forde-report-buried-by-corporate-media-right-wing-establishment-labour-party

      Oh please!

      Dorset Eye is run by Jason Cridland, a Sociology Tutor (earmarking him as a wanker from the off) at a jumped up sixth form college who also makes money running “mindfulness” courses and other such neo-hippy or neo-Trotskyite crap via Dorset Eye’s fleecing the gullible “workshop” wing, Stir To Action.

      Dorset Eye were lampooned for reprinting conspiracy theories about Boris Johnson “faking” having Covid-19 and then doubling down even when it was pointed out to them they’d lifted their “facts” from the Facebook “sartirical site” (ie. wannabe edgelords) A Poke in the Eye With a Sharp Wit.

      Less funny was their “Rachel Riley worked for the Israeli state propaganda machine” claims.

      It’s clear they’re trying to pass them off as the spiritual successors to the late Rodney Legg’s Dorset Life – difference being old Rodders made sure of his facts before going to print: the circles he’d circulated in (and once circulated him …) made him alert to tinhatters, Jew baiters and the rest of the riff-raff of the political fringes who never allowed facts to get in the way of their pet obsessions.

    193. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sarah –

      Halfway through that Salyers link.

      Wooft!

      Looking forward to Andy’s analysis!

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    194. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Andy Ellis 10.01: @Dan

      “Tap away. The original response stands. I’m can’t be arsed schooling the unreasoning in how to have a sense of perspective.”

      Did you mean that response to be to me? Dan and I are two different people.

    195. George Ferguson says:

      @Sarah 9:42pm
      50% plus since when. Haven’t you been reading Stu’s graphs?. The last poll I can remember was 52% the weekend before 2014. And 60% immediately after Brexit. Otherwise its 47% on average, I don’t hold with the intelligence behind the one card constitution play wins all. I have been on taxi service tonight, what are Dads and Granddads for. The women in my life don’t want to travel via Uber. Concern yourself with the failings of Holyrood. And ask Why that is the case?. Independence will be closer if you do. We can all deny the facts and be Independence supporters in an other ethereal world. But Holyrood is in dire need of reform. No amount of positive spin will change that.

    196. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto

      Yeah, sorry. The unreasoning all seem alike after a while. I was multi tasking whilst watching the Terminator film.

    197. sarah says:

      Ian B: glad you are enjoying Sara’s argument, courtesy of Dan. Brilliant and convincing, isn’t it?

      It is “strange” how every Scot knows all about England’s sovereignty of parliament but we none of us, nor our academics apparently given they haven’t written books about, and educated us on, Scotland’s far older, more powerful and appealing Constitution.

      So we have to ask Westminster for permission, do we? Oh no we don’t!!

    198. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Andy: och, that’s ok. Your dismissive inability to answer a simple question speaks volumes.

      Enjoy your film.

      Hasta la vista, baby.

    199. sarah says:

      @ George Ferguson: “Holyrood in need of reform.”

      I don’t disagree with that. But under Scotland’s Constitution Holyrood would be under our supervision – that would make a huge difference.

      Yes I have been reading Stu’s graphs [of course :)] but I always bear in mind that the 2014 vote, merely by happening, completely changed the mindset regarding independence. From having been a fringe idea it is now a perfectly normal in fact completely central to virtually every aspect of public discussion in Scotland. When there is an event that triggers a reaction, the Yes support rises. And also bear in mind that 52% Scots-born voted Yes even in 2014 when independence was a novel and fairly scary idea to many.

      Off to my hammock now, worn out by this intellectual chat!

    200. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto

      Anyone with a sense of perspective knows the answer to your question.

      I just have better things to do. The fact you see a moral equivalence tells us a lot more.

    201. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Andy: so could someone like yourself give me an answer then?

      It’s ok if you can’t beyond doing some feeble deflection.

      Of course, maybe you’re too busy multi-tasking, like a true pro.

    202. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Love him or loathe him, you’ve got to admit, yon P***n dude gets folk’s hackles right up eh?

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    203. George Ferguson says:

      @Sarah 10;37pm
      Enjoy your sleep and thanks for being positive when I am not. 52% of Scottish indigenous males voted for Independence. Women didn’t. And Sturgeons tenure has reversed the Stats. Result 47 %.

    204. Scott says:

      “Of course, those who fluff Lavrov as “someone worth listening to” will very often be those espousing anti-vaxxer conspiracies, regressive nativism or other woo-woo. Odd that in general they are on the “right side” with respect to gender woo, where they accept the mainstream scientific reality, and the view held by the overwhelming majority of the pubic.” – Ellis

      False equivalence, straight from the horse’s arse’s chubby wee fingers.

    205. Breastplate says:

      Tinto Chiel,
      Ellis doesn’t need to debate, he has all the answers.

      If you agree with him you can consider yourself an intelligent and thoughtful person and if you don’t, well it’s quite obvious that you fall into the category of conspiracy theorist, moonhowler, flat-earther, nativist, nutter or other category of unthinker.

      I wonder what it’s like to be a demigod awaiting promotion.

    206. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto

      No, I just choose not to waste my time with the undeserving, the fucking creepy stalkers like yer man Scott, and those who can’t be reasoned with. What’s the point? It’s largely folk talking past one another.

      Some of the alert readers who don’t fall for woo-woo are worth reaching out to tho’.

      It’s a hard job, but somebody’s got to do it eh? Can’t have the moonhowlers fouling the nest a’ the time.

      Anyway, Terminator is finished now. Hopefully, like them, crap ideas like yours can be similarly nailed! 🙂

    207. Effigy says:

      Liz Truss’ affair

      Truss came under fire from party activists in her future Norfolk constituency in 2006 over an affair with a married MP.

      The fling with then-Tory MP Mark Field is thought to have lasted around 18 months and almost derailed the then-25-year-old’s climb to becoming the nominee for the seat.

    208. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breastplate –

      I can’t be the only one who would pay good money to see Ellis in a face-to-face with Sara Salyers of Alba.

      (Come to think of it – isn’t he an Alba member too, or was at some point? Can’t remember him ever mentioning it…)

    209. Confused says:

      Here’s hoping

      https://archive.ph/wip/qm7b0

      ‘We won’t touch Scotland. Scotland will be independent,’ replied Solovyov.

      or you can have section 30 with the shenanigans of last time, or a “plebescite”, a contest with the bar set so high no one could ever win, and no one will recognise the result anyway.

    210. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Andy: more irrelevant, dismissive insults from a guy who struggles to respond to a simple question. It’s clearly pointless trying to get a sensible answer from you.

      @Ian B: wow, that Sarah Salyers is a formidable woman! I bet she scares the SNP leadership as much as the unionists.

      @Breastplate: that’s a great list of terms which Andy uses as substitutes for meaningful debate but I think you missed “snivelling online coward”. That’s a zinger he employs when he really can’t think of anything else to say.

      Anyway, off for my beauty sleep..

    211. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Andy Ellis (11.23) –

      ‘All things must pass.’

      😉

    212. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Twittery stuff suggests that Russia’s central bank has just slashed interest rates.

      That’ll be the NATO sanctions kicking-in then, eh?

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    213. Andy Ellis says:

      Twittery stuff suggests that Russia’s central bank has just slashed interest rates.

      That’ll be the NATO sanctions kicking-in then, eh?

      Yeah, everything’s rosy in Vlad’s paradise….

      Meanwhile, back in the real world:

      “In 2023, the economy will contract by 1%-4%, the central bank said, revising its earlier forecast that the economy would shrink by up to 3% next year.

      “The CBR is telling a story with its economic forecasts. This story is that the environment could deteriorate next year to the extent that it would force the CBR to hike the policy rate,” said Alexei Pogorelov, chief economist at Credit Suisse in London.

      High inflation dents living standards and has for years been a key concern for ordinary Russians. Annual inflation will slow to 12%-15% this year and to 5%-7% in 2023, the central bank said.

      The central bank could lower the key rate by 7% by the year-end, said Yuri Popov, strategist at SberCIB Investment Research.

      The central bank noted subdued consumer demand, weak investment activity and issues with Russia’s external trade.

      The central bank said the key rate would average 6.5-8.5% in 2023 and said it was ready to act if inflation accelerates again.

      “This approach also shows the central bank has no euphoria about the resilience of the domestic economy to Western sanctions and that it prefers staying on the safe side,” said Pogorelov from Credit Suisse.”

      https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-central-bank-slashes-key-rate-8-study-need-more-cuts-2022-07-22/

    214. Andy Ellis says:

      Halfway through that Salyers link.

      Wooft!

      Looking forward to Andy’s analysis!

      What is it that you’re expecting exactly?

      What particular thing halfway through the link is it you think is a “wooft” moment?

    215. Breeks says:

      George Ferguson says:
      23 July, 2022 at 10:25 pm

      The women in my life don’t want to travel via Uber. Concern yourself with the failings of Holyrood. And ask Why that is the case?. Independence will be closer if you do. We can all deny the facts and be Independence supporters in an other ethereal world. But Holyrood is in dire need of reform. No amount of positive spin will change that.

      George, can I reach out from the ethereal world into your terrestrial world and take those blinkers off?

      Independence isn’t going tweak Scotland like a drop of oil on a rusty gate hinge.

      It’s going to sack the Management of the UK for centuries of exploitation, corruption, and plunder. The Scottish Nation will at last be brought back under Scotland’s control, and that hasn’t happened for 315 years.

      But the last time Scots were running Scotland, it was against the law, an imprisonable offence, to profit from shortages or the misfortune of others.

      The common weal, the needs of the many outranking the greed of the few was a central tenet of Scottish Society. Before the Union, we Scots had a Constitution and notion of a popular Sovereignty which was both centuries old, and yet centuries ahead of it’s time.

      Scotland, prior to the Union, was on a stellar trajectory. It is my considered belief that the 18th and 19th Century Scottish Enlightenment wasn’t driven by any success or prosperity of the blood thirsty Union, it was already there and beginning to bloom, the product of Scotland’s societal values and attitudes towards education, arts, science, and common good, and it was Scotland’s philosophy which lifted the plane of existence for the whole United Kingdom. “A man’s a man for a’ that.”

      But what Scotland got in return, was the influx and lasting blight of English style values; greed and exploitation of the many for obscene wealth and power of the few, where the tenuous rights of crofting and rural communities so long safe and guaranteed in a Scottish society were suddenly ill prepared to defend themselves from ruthless greed unleashed upon the people suddenly having their rights subjugated by foreign doctrines. And as we know, that was just the beginning of a concerted effort to smash up and Anglicise Scotland’s traditional societies, communities and cultures; relentless endeavour that never tires.

      You can even see the “Common Weal” philosophy writ large in Scotland’s infamous Darien Scheme. Scottish “Colonialism” with little desire or motivation to steal or plunder another man’s country, but to engineer a capacity where only opportunity existed before, for the good of all seafaring trade. Yes it failed, but Scotland’s thinking was two centuries ahead of anybody elses.

      We will never know the Scotland which might have been, but I think the world would have been a better place for knowing it.

      But for the first time in these last three centuries, Scotland is beginning to see the realistic opportunity to expel this exploitative, false and manipulative Government of Lies, and put a Scottish system of Government back in it’s legitimate place.

      Look at Brexit. A UK Government stealing Scotland’s rightful place and prosperity in the Europe where Scotland belongs, and in it’s place, we’re robbed of even more resource and treated like livestock to be denied even common democracy.

      Reform Holyrood George? Reform it, I’d rehome it. I’d strap Holyrood to a rocket and aim it at the moon with the intention of becoming Scotland’s first Lunar Base, and I’d use the 1998 Scotland Act as the taper to light the fuse.

      Scottish Independence won’t deliver benefits to everybody right from the word go. Our Nation needs to heal itself, and remember what it feels like to draw nourishment from our own resources, rather than suffer the anemia of continual drain.

      I don’t know what Governments Scotland will have from now on. Hopefully good ones, better one’s than Nicola Sturgeons, but who can predict that? We’ll make mistakes, and see times both good and bad. But it seems the fate of my generation isn’t so much to enjoy the fruits of life in an Independent Scotland, it’s to have the honour of ending Scotland’s tragic entrapment, and bringing about the changes which will allow our kids, and our kid’s kids, to have their lives and opportunities freed from the blight of a hostile Westminster rule.

      I believe that’s vital for the common good.

    216. DJ says:

      Well said, Breeks!

    217. sarah says:

      @ Breeks: “..put a Scottish system [i.e. the pre-1707] of government back in its legitimate place.”

      That is it exactly. And as Sara Salyers says in that video [and I have been feeling for some years] we are being forced to live a lie. The truth about what Scotland has constitutionally is being deliberately hidden and we are living under the falsehood of Westminster’s system where the “ruling class” have the whiphand over the masses. In Scotland it is the common good of all the people that should be the ruling principle.

    218. George Ferguson says:

      @Breeks 9:06pm
      Come on Breeks don’t spoil my breakfast. I am in the middle of reading the Sunday Papers where Scottish taxpayers are on the hook for a £400 million liability for a £5 investment (Gupta). I am very world-weary on matters of Holyrood preferring to observe the ridiculous state of public service provision in Scotland. This lot will ensure Independence never happens.

    219. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto

      @Andy: more irrelevant, dismissive insults from a guy who struggles to respond to a simple question. It’s clearly pointless trying to get a sensible answer from you.

      Your false equivalence honestly doesn’t merit any complex response or discussion. Anyone who can look at the actions of Vlad’s regime – both domestically and externally – and then try to obfuscate the matter by referring to treatment of Assange and Murray, lacks all perspective, and probably any functioning moral compass.

      There is no point trying to reason with such abject foolishness, and I’m not wasting my time trying. The answer is self evident to most folk. I’m not interested trying to convert the small coterie of Vlad lovers and sophomoric cappuccino commies in here. They’re beyond help frankly, and other alert readers don’t need me to point out that you are using false equivalence. Your motivations for doing so are your own.

    220. Breeks says:

      George Ferguson says:
      24 July, 2022 at 9:27 am

      …I am in the middle of reading the Sunday Papers..

      Think I’ve spotted the problem George. 😉

    221. Breeks says:

      And just to dwell on it a little, that notion of a common good society wouldn’t tolerate the despicable surcharges which banks and power companies use to scam millions from those least able to afford it, and it would also have corruption in local government in it’s sights.

      But I also believe the common good philosophy would have a mountain of impact on land ownership, with particular relevance to sporting estates, but also the displacement of local families vital to their communities survival which would not be tolerated.

      I’m not sure how we go about reversing what is now a protracted problem, but what I am sure is that the problem will only get worse, much worse, under a Westminster government which wants Scotland turned into a retirement village.

    222. Republicofscotland says:

      Mark Boyle @10.02pm.

      AS far I know the Dorset Eye stood up for Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn and that’s when the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) a London-based, militant Zionist, anti free speech NGO began attacking the Dorset Eye in a more concentrated way.

      Prior to this the Dorset Eye came under attack for defending Hamas right to protect its Palestinian people from the 2014 Israeli murderous onslaught.

      Basically the Dorset Eye has reported on the activities of the oppressive apartheid occupying military regime that’s known as Israel and it has come under attack from NGO’s and Israeli sympathisers from what I can glean.

    223. Ottomanboi says:

      BREEKS 9:06
      Independence, from my perspectivd, ought to mean back to zero, a total reboot. Effectively the start of an «exciting», if rather turbulent, myth busting total renewal.
      However, it might also under the «wrong» leadership be an opportunity for a cosmetic patch up of the old order; the line of least resistance, bargain basement independence on the cheap, likely to fall apart when stressed.
      Scotland as it is now but with added embassies and an army would be the the worst of worlds, ripe for mischiefmaking.
      Too many ex colonial territories have made that basic transitional error.

    224. Republicofscotland says:

      Looks like Stonewall might be going after nursery school children.

      “Research suggests that children as young as 2 recognise their trans identity. Yet, many nurseries and schools teach a binary understanding of pre-assigned gender.

      LGBTQ-inclusive and affirming education is crucial for the wellbeing of all young people!”

      https://twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1550427949819695104

    225. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says:
      24 July, 2022 at 9:06 am

      Independence isn’t going tweak Scotland like a drop of oil on a rusty gate hinge.

      It’s going to sack the Management of the UK for centuries of exploitation, corruption, and plunder. The Scottish Nation will at last be brought back under Scotland’s control, and that hasn’t happened for 315 years.

      But the last time Scots were running Scotland, it was against the law, an imprisonable offence, to profit from shortages or the misfortune of others.

      The common weal, the needs of the many outranking the greed of the few was a central tenet of Scottish Society. Before the Union, we Scots had a Constitution and notion of a popular Sovereignty which was both centuries old, and yet centuries ahead of it’s time.

      Scotland, prior to the Union, was on a stellar trajectory. It is my considered belief that the 18th and 19th Century Scottish Enlightenment wasn’t driven by any success or prosperity of the blood thirsty Union, it was already there and beginning to bloom, the product of Scotland’s societal values and attitudes towards education, arts, science, and common good, and it was Scotland’s philosophy which lifted the plane of existence for the whole United Kingdom. “A man’s a man for a’ that.”

      I’m sorry, but this is romanticism. For starters, we were still executing witches for two decades after the Union, something England had given up two decades earlier, and still had all manner of loony Presbyterian groups roaming around murdering people for being Papists or not adhering to “Sound Doctrine”. We were far from being the rational land of sunshine and rainbows you’d paint it as being.

      But what Scotland got in return, was the influx and lasting blight of English style values; greed and exploitation of the many for obscene wealth and power of the few, where the tenuous rights of crofting and rural communities so long safe and guaranteed in a Scottish society were suddenly ill prepared to defend themselves from ruthless greed unleashed upon the people suddenly having their rights subjugated by foreign doctrines. And as we know, that was just the beginning of a concerted effort to smash up and Anglicise Scotland’s traditional societies, communities and cultures; relentless endeavour that never tires.

      Aye, because the Highland Clearances – by Scottish Lairds on their own people – was all England’s fault somehow. Straight out of the Irish Republican playbook of cherrypicked history so all the bad stuff is always “their” fault.

      You can even see the “Common Weal” philosophy writ large in Scotland’s infamous Darien Scheme. Scottish “Colonialism” with little desire or motivation to steal or plunder another man’s country, but to engineer a capacity where only opportunity existed before, for the good of all seafaring trade. Yes it failed, but Scotland’s thinking was two centuries ahead of anybody elses.

      So it’s exploitation and plunder when England does it, but “Common Weal” and “opportunity” when Scotland does it? I expect the Border Reivers told themselves much the same lies to justify the unjustifiable.

      I’m sure the local Kuna tribe saw it in your terms too, but then as our side had guns and they’d saw what happened to other tribes when they objected to white settlers snatching their lands they knew their only hope was to let events take their course, didn’t they?

      We will never know the Scotland which might have been, but I think the world would have been a better place for knowing it.

      But for the first time in these last three centuries, Scotland is beginning to see the realistic opportunity to expel this exploitative, false and manipulative Government of Lies, and put a Scottish system of Government back in it’s legitimate place.

      Yeah, because the electoral dictatorship under Sturgeon is doing such a rip-roaring success in selling complete self-government to those on the fence, never mind the cynical.

      Scottish Independence won’t deliver benefits to everybody right from the word go. Our Nation needs to heal itself, and remember what it feels like to draw nourishment from our own resources, rather than suffer the anemia of continual drain.

      I’m sorry, but that’s Guardianista psychobabble. “Heal itself”? Do we all get a support wee ginger dug or something?

      I don’t know what Governments Scotland will have from now on. Hopefully good ones …

      “Hopefully” isn’t good enough. Asking people to agree to a complete shift in the way Scotland is run has to rely on more than “hopefully” – it has to rely on solid economic facts and figures. Boring, yes, but boring is the difference between there being food on the table and being able to turn on the light and heating.

      It’s why I despair at those who think girning on about 1707 And All That is going to sway enough people north of the border to the cause. Brigadoonery is buffoonery – appealing to nostalgia and mythos of a better yesterday simply isn’t going to cut it except with the fickle “Ninety Minute Nationalists” (as Jim Sillars once called them) who get all “patriotic” whenever Scotland’s doing good at something in sports (and often after one pint of heavy too many …)

    226. Republicofscotland says:

      Disney at its venues has changed the names of it Fairy Godmothers, to Gender Neutral Apprentices to be more inclusive.

      So Snow White now has a Gender Neutral Apprentice instead of a Fairy Godmother, they can’t leave f*ck all alone this lot.

    227. DJ says:

      Republicofscotland

      Don’t you just love it when any sentence begins with “Research suggests…”. You can push all manner of propaganda with that.

    228. Ottomanboi says:

      Republicofscotland. 10:25
      «research suggests…» whose?
      We are in vagaries of «the science says, experts say» neverneverland.
      Kinsey, the dirty old man of «sexology», lurking at the school gates.

      https://reason.com/2021/07/09/how-much-scientific-research-is-actually-fraudulent/

    229. Mark Boyle says:

      DJ says:
      24 July, 2022 at 10:45 am

      Don’t you just love it when any sentence begins with “Research suggests…”. You can push all manner of propaganda with that.

      Anyone peddling that crap without stating their research source so readers can double check as to its reputability should always be treated like the Fortean Times. There’s a lot of social justice warrior propaganda masquerading as “scientific research” keeping Ben Goldacre in Bad Science article material for the next century out there.

      It’s up there with tabloids printing “A source said …” for ringing warning bells.

    230. Effigy says:

      Don’t you just love it when any sentence begins with “Research suggests…”. You can push all manner of propaganda with that.

      They can often name the source of the so called research and they will have a nice reassuring name for a nest of right wing propagandists focused purely to keep the masses
      they control and rob worried that they had better listen.

    231. Daisy Walker says:

      OT – My very own dodgy stats.

      Re how much energy from Scotland, does Englerland appropriate?

      England produces 72.6% of total UK electricity, Scotland 16.7%, Wales 7.5%, N Ireland 3.2%
      Each CONSUMES
      England 80.9%, Scotland 9.7%, Wales 6.5%, N Ireland 2.9%
      (Figures for 2020)
      So England consumes 8.3 percentage points more than it produces and Scotland consumes 7 percentage points less than it produces. (or, in %, England consumes 11.4% more than it produces and Scotland produces
      42% more than it consumes)’.

      So, if we look at the above, it tells us, England is meeting its energy deficit by taking 7% of energy from Scotland (made through renewables).

      We also know, that 45% of UK electricity is made via gas turbines, most of which are situated in England, and that 62% of UK gas is taken from Scottish waters. 30% of gas comes into the UK via St Fergus…

      Let’s use that 30% figure for now. 30% of 45 = 14.25% of UK electricity made with Scottish Gas.

      So, as a rough thumbnail workings, with incomplete data, and my dodgy maths…

      England’s energy deficit (of 8.3%) is subsidised by Scottish renewable electricity and Scottish Gas into electricity, to the collective tune of around 21% UK energy figures.

      This is over and above Scotland producing enough energy for her own use.

      It’s no wonder then, that recent financial stuff ups, are showing an export of electricity from England to mainland Europe… they can afford to sell about 10% to Europe in order to shore up the crashed £.

      Likewise the recent Guardian article about $3 trillion of profit per day from worldwide oil production… has been calculated in Scottish shares as 0.2% of worldwide oil production.

      Coming in at $6 million per day.

      Going back to that 21% Uk figure for electricity that Scotland provides.

      That 21% is catering to a population of 60 million in total… or around 12 million in percentage terms.

      Scotland with a population of around 5 million, provides its own electric energy, then on top of that exports over 2 times that amount again.

      Anyway, enough of my ready reckonings. One figure you can be sure of is Scotland gets ZERO return for the above, just the highest energy bills in Europe.

    232. Robert Hughes says:

      RoS .From that Stonewalloper piece

      ” My 4-year-old is gender nonconforming – but her nursery doesn’t respect that ”

      * gender nonconforming * . FFS ! She’s FOUR YEARS OLD you * anonymous * fuckwit . If she wears a cowboy hat is she REALLY , deep down , * always known * she’s a cowboy ? Ditto spaceman , fireman , nurse , teacher , wrestler , monster from outer space

      It’s called I.M.A.G.I.N.A.T.I.O.N . Childhood wonder/fantasy . Something these fckn moronic ideological zealots and colluding parents will rob every child of by forcing them to – IRONY !! – conform to their demented * gender * straight jackets .

      Breeks @ 9.06 . Brilliant post . We should be wary of focusing on * personalities * – our * collective * error of judgement regarding the utter fraud , borderline psycho Sturgeon is one of the hardest , most costly lessons we’ll ever learn .That said …
      Sara Salyers has the * Right Stuff * , personally and in terms of knowledge , experience and commitment .

      She’s a * keeper * , for sure 🙂

    233. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      24 July, 2022 at 10:05 am

      Independence, from my perspective, ought to mean back to zero, a total reboot….
      …..However, it might also under the «wrong» leadership be an opportunity for a cosmetic patch up of the old order;

      In the beginning, I think that will be true, but in the middle to longer term, I trust the Scottish people to feed the right wolf and leave the wrong wolf to go hungry.

      I get strangest feeling however, that the Claim of Right might be vital at first, but prove to be less pivotal than we expect it to be, whereas it’s the Scottish doctrine of government for the common good which could have the more profound ramifications if it catches a wind with the Scottish public.

      I want to read through all the SALVO stuff again and again, because there a subtleties in some of the old texts which are a wee bit mind blowing. It’s like re-imagining everything you thought you knew.

      I truly do now wonder whether it was the alien doctrines of the English Parliament which arrived in Scotland after 1707 which directly spawned the Clearances, or at least, left Scotland’s communities vulnerable to being cleared, because the people were too trusting of Scotland’s common good values. The topic needs research, but I can see the possible argument to test out, that no Union = no Clearances.

      It seems too that Scotland’s Common Weal society, had that still been the prevailing doctrine, would not have stood back to see Scottish families being priced out of their communities, or utilities like schools and shops driven to the brink of closure by second homes. Such things are contrary to the common good.

      I think all of us see Scottish history through the colonial lens, some of us cynical about what we see, some of us lapping it up, but I think we are just at the beginning of seeing glimpses of Scotland before the Union the way Scotland saw itself, and it’s a very different perspective indeed from anything we’re used to.

      Three more cheers for SALVO. They are changing the game.

    234. Ottomanboi says:

      Reasons why in «science» a very clear and skeptical head is a must.

      https://nabil-alouani.medium.com/is-nuclear-fusion-a-22-billion-scam-386e25591f10

      https://www.manhattan-institute.org/mines-minerals-and-green-energy-reality-check

      Governments, politicians love the latest fad.
      The damage they do in its pursuit lives long after they’ve gone.

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-moment-youth/201206/the-art-positive-skepticism

      and if there’s money involved, cui bono?

    235. Daisy Walker says:

      Just out of interest…. oil gets sold internationally (at the moment) in dollars per barrel.

      That electricity that’s going from England to mainland Europe? What currency is it being sold in? Anyone know.

      And another… random thought.

      The recent windfarm give away, whereby the SNP government put a cap limit on how much the companies could bid…. only offers less than 1/4 the market rate to be accepted.

      Isn’t that field situated off North Berwick… and isn’t that area within the Stolen Seas? I mean right smack bang in the middle of it.

      So, when are stolen seas, not stolen? I hardly think the Brits had a fit of conscience.

      Could it just have been about not drawing attention to the theft… and getting the SNP Government to be the baddies re the deal. No point getting your hands dirty when there are useful fools to do it for you.

      Incidentally, a squad of about 40 working there now, on the installation. London ganger, English accents aplenty, only one or 2 Scottish accents… and, they’ve built a residential compound on site… so local B and B’s won’t even get some business out of it.

      Not even the crumbs.

    236. Ottomanboi says:

      Breeks 12:40
      A readiness too to reassess the «official» historic narrative is needed, even if it runs counter to the established notions of the national myth.
      Discovering the «authentic», distinguishing the authentic from the bogus and drawing on the living roots take time. Things fall apart when the externals of statehood, the bling, assume an importance before the interior has been cleared of the accumulated superfluity.
      Running before they can walk has been the sad story of post colonial, post imperial societies during the twentieth century. Being seduced by «gifts» offered by the big guys another.

    237. wull says:

      James Che @ 4.32 on July 23: ‘A devolved English created government in Scotland breaching its promise and oath to the English parliament and crown can and would be done for Treason.
      The devolved government’s hands are bound and tied legally, no matter which route it pretends to take. It is under English law, hence NS going to the Supreme Court.’

      The problem is that the SNP are not courageous enough, not gallus enough, not Scottish enough to get themselves ‘done for Treason’. When women are courageous they are often far more courageous than men, but when they are wimps they are really wimps. And that’s what the Women-in-Charge of the Nu-SNP have proved themselves to be. Good at doing down those who do not deserve to be done down, useless at standing up to those who need to be stood up to, totally acquiescent in the webs spun by these latter and unashamedly incapable of ever facing up to them, and scared of taking them on.

      Courageous they certainly are not.

      And neither are the light-weight feather-headed gentlemen in that same Nu-SNP who have bent their knees before them in servile adulation. Wimps the lot of them. They had a choice: stand up for Scotland’s real constitution and go in hard in proper Scottish style, or stand back and play by rules set from outside Scotland, by those whose very purpose was to undermine our nation’s existence. And the worst of them, perhaps, – at least for me the most disappointing – is Michael Russell. Michael certainly does know Scotland’s constitution, but now says not a word.

      The SNP are trying to win it by subterfuge, yet another of these wee super-plans dreamed up by Tricky Nicky, which are always overtaken by events and soon enough come – predictably – to absolutely nothing. Which is what they were in the first place, because Scotland’s independence cannot be won by a trick. Not just because the Westminster professionals are much trickier than our lot are – they’ve been at it a lot longer – but also because the Scottish people are not going to be impressed by tricks.

      If you want to convince the Scottish people about independence you have to believe in it, with a passion, and with a passion communicate that belief. You also have to know in your heart that it is a perfectly logical and rational belief to hold, and communicate that too. But offering them a wee box of self-invented – and see-through – tricks? Who is really going to buy into such a shoddy wee thing as that…?

      Of these things – conviction and passion and good thinking for independence – the Nu-SNP are entirely incapable. This has been proven for long and weary, and now once again – by them being reduced to trying to be clever – playing tricks. Within, moreover, a set of rules that has given all the trump cards to Westminster. Rules that have already undermined all the Nu-SNP’s admittedly pathetic efforts in this direction (independence) in advance, beforehand.

      Instead of agreeing to be beaten before they start, they ought to be confronting the original tricks inscribed in devolution head-on. Not just by dreaming up some supposedly clever subterfuge, but by tackling the biggest trick of all, which was the Westminster-style devolved government that was invented for us in the first place.

      But devolution has been good to them – the Nu-SNP, I mean. It laid for them their golden egg, and on no account will they ever want to take the slightest risk on having that great layer, who keeps on laying, from them.

      It was for a good reason that the old SNP at first opposed devolution. Then, when they did eventually accept it, it was only in view of using it as a springboard for independence. The Nu-SNP has taken all the spring out of the board, double-flipped backwards, and is now standing on its head. They’ve turned their Party, and its purpose, upside down. With the spring towards independence taken out of it, this acquiescence in devolution transforms itself into perpetual tugging of the forelock towards those they should be opposing with all their hearts and minds.
      An independence movement without heart will never succeed. Prudence, in the old sense of the term – based not on fear but sound judgement – means that good calculations will be required as well. But by themselves, standing alone, such calculations are only servile tricks, and they amount to sweet nothing. Or rather that the bitterness of that nothingness which leads nowhere.

      But let’s look at their current calculation – like all their previous ones foredoomed to failure, as far as actually gaining independence is concerned. The way, that is, they calulate their latest new (Nu-SNP) trick, the one she/they/them-lot are trying to play now. Here it is: ‘Instead of a referendum on independence as such, let’s just do one on whether or not the Scottish people want such a referendum. To sound out public opinion.’ With the thinking behind that that won’t change the situation in the least. We have insisted on our gold standard, and Westminster still won’t be obliged to give us that even if we win that non-obligatory ‘referendum for a possible referendum’..

      And – so the calculation (dressed up as profound political thinking) goes on – ‘let’s put our right to hold this referendum about a potential referendum before the’ (recently-invented, US-imitation, fake-currency, radically unconstitutional) ‘institution known as the Supreme Court of the UK. This will show’ (to constitutionally ignorant and uninitiated people, both at home and abroad, including ourselves) ‘that we act legally and correctly. In full respect for law and order, and in accordance with the British Constitution’ (something which they should not have such respect since, as they always fail to point out, it does not actually exist; uncodified, that so-called ‘British Constitution’ lies scattered incoherently in a multitude of documents which have never been collated or brought into line with each other, which do not hing thegither, and which have been intentionally and deliberately kept in this ridiculous state so that the Westminster Executive, riding high on its unaccountability to the people and its being controlled only by its own braying backbenchers, can change in any way it wants and whenever they like by the simple stroke of a pen, or passage of a new law, guaranteed by their undemocratically-elected parliamentary majority). instead of tearing that fictitious British Constitution to shreds, the Nu-SNP confine themselves within it. I wonder why. Is it because if Scotland ever did get independence, they will want to transport this typically ‘British’ way of elites like themselves overriding the people into Scottish politics as well? Is this their dream? Maybe they don’t really want to overcome Westminster – their real ambition is to BE some new version of the same, a sort of ‘Westminster-in-Scotland’, where they call all the shots and the people – as well as the people’s down to earth common sense – can go hang… ?

      Anyway, our oh-so-law-abiding Gold-Standard-impregnated Nu-SNP, whose idea of law is to acquiesce in someone else’s constitutional quagmire (which continually sinks the SNP’s agenda for Scotland’s independence, sucking that agenda into its own slithering mud), think they are being ultra-cunning and clever by developing this plan and going down this waste-of-time route.

      Their aim is not to serve the Scottish people but simply to embarrass – so they think – the Westminster government. Politics is a game for them, and they have the illusion they are good at it, and plan accordingly. From one ever-so-clever wheeze to the next, when the wheels fall off the first one, on they whish on their wheezy pointless journey. ‘If the Supreme Court says yes’, so goes their calculation, ‘we will be able to hold our referendum on the possibility’ – merely a potential, for their universe consists of mere possibilities, not real facts on which one acts – ‘on the possibility of, possibly, holding a possible referendum on possible independence. That will be a good outcome. It will show the people of Scotland that we really mean it, even if we don’t, and that we really respect their sovereignty, even though we continually take them for the fools they are, and deceive them as we please.’

      If, however, as they expect it will, the SC says no, they will be publicly outraged and point out the democratic deficiency involved. They will thus – by their self-righteous posturing – put the UK government to shame, and pressurise Westminster to change the law in regard to allowing devolved administrations to initiate consultative referenda. They will revel in pointing out that if the UK Government fail to do so, they are being undemocratic. All this will waste more and more time, postponing the chances of a real referendum on real independence still further, because Westminster will have none of it.

      Probably they think that these long-drawn-out battles will increase resentment against Westminster in Scotland, and therefore increase support for independence. They might be right. But the opposite effect is just as likely to happen. All these long-drawn-out battles and all this posturing will get the Unionists’ hackles up, and they will make hay of it, encouraging everyone fed up with the whole matter. It could all backfire, turning people off, including even not a few of those who genuinely sought and, even now, still hope for independence. By the time she gets her referendum on a referendum, if she ever does, it could be met with the indifference of low turn-out, and that is likely to result in a clear no to a new independence referendum.

      But the bottom line is this: whatever the outcome is, either way, devolution will have been saved. And that’s probably the main point for her and hers. Their precious Holyrood – (not ours, not the Holyrood we hoped for) – will be guaranteed to continue.

      Real confrontation, (not the make-believe parody of it that will have been played out before us), which she has neither the confidence nor the courage to pursue, could have jeopardised its continuation. And that she will have successfully avoided. You could say she is more interested in saving Holyrood and its pretensions, and continuing it, than she is in saving and freeing Scotland.

      In fact, the confrontation that is needed and the real referendum on independence that would follow would almost certainly, one way or another, finish off devolution altogether, once and for all. And therefore finish off Holyrood as we know it.

      If it resulted in Scotland gaining its full independence, there would have to be a new parliament with altogether different powers, and a new constitution so that it remains under the control of the people. Devolution would be automatically abolished.

      The other way Holyrood could be brought to an end would be by Westminster winning the confrontation, and in such a manner that it could decide to suspend Holyrood, and soon enough succeed in closing it down altogether. Or making so ineffective and of such limited powers that it becomes useless in people’s eyes. Therefore – bye bye devolution.

      A third possible outcome could be that of Holyrood gaining what seems to be additional powers, by being granted (from Westminster-on-High) the ability to hold consultative referenda. This would happen either by the UK’s so-called Supreme Court ruling in favour of this or, if the SC rules against it, by Westminster making a small concession and passing legislation to that effect. Although successive UK governments woul\d always be able to overturn this, if and when they want, the Nu-SNP would trumpet this as some great victory. But in reality it would be no such thing. All it would really mean is that the Scottish Government at Holyrood is empowered to hold meaningless referenda which carry no weight, because even if those in government gain the outcome they wish, they will not thereby be automatically empowered to implement that outcome (except on issues on which they are allowed to legislate already, and in regard to which they therefore do not need to hold a referendum in the first place).

      The fourth possibility is that after winning the right to hold the consultative referendum, and winning a majority in favour of holding a binding referendum on independence, everything would still be stuck exactly where it is now. In this event, the Nu-SNP would still have to ask for Westminster’s permission to hold that referendum on independence, and Westminster will still be in a position where it can refuse that request – and no doubt will indeed stymie it (evidence for which can be found in the total ignorance about Scotland displayed by all the candidates for the Tory leadership, and hence the UK premiership, in the debates we heard during the last couple of weeks – they say they are Unionists but none of them had a clue about what that Union actually is; not the slightest, and at least one of them did not know where the border is or what it means: their vagueness was astounding).

      The best the SNP can possibly gain from their clever plan is one more home-made, makeshift arrow in their already feeble armoury in arguing for holding a referendum on independence. It is clearly an exercise in time-wasting – no more than that. They will be able to fire that flimsy arrow as often as they like, it still will never hit the Westminster target they are aiming at, and will do it no damage. According to Dorothy Bain, and hence the Scottish Government (in whose cabinet she sits, in a way that ought to be unlawful), Westminster still retains all the powers. So, Westminster can always fire back, with far heavier guns compared to that wee arrow, by saying – with perfect legal precision and in accordance with the Nu-SNP’s own arguments – that the ‘referendum on a possible independence referendum was only consultative and in no way legally binding. And Westminster deems that now is not the time. Try again ten or fifteen or fifty years from now. Westminster Rule reigns, and we have you little Scottie-dogs reined in. Go back to your play-pen in Holyrood, and forget about it. You played by our rules – so please don’t complain when you, and your half-baked dreams of independence, die by our rules.’

      End of story. As far as Westminster is concerned.

      Unless of course the people rise, and the Nu-SNP will collude with Westminster to make sure that that never happens, so long as they are allowed to keep their wee fake political lives in Holyrood going. Quid pro quo!

      That last outcome, too, will give the Nu-SNP its most important desired outcome: devolution will once again have been saved. The gravy-train on the road-to-doing-next-to-nothing (except denying common sense and causing harm to future generations) will still be running. Full steam ahead… And the increasingly changing demographics will take over, effectively swallowing Scotland down the throat of England.

      You could call it ‘The Big Swalley’. Gone will be the days not only of Scottish Independence, but also of the old Union, which did at least have an understanding of what that Union was, and a consciousness of its constitutional ambiguities. Now, there will be no ambiguities at all – it will have been decreed by Westminster, and the wimps and lackeys in Holyrood will have consented to it (though they have no right to usurp that act of consent from the people of Scotland), that Enland uber alles!

      At long last, the seven-or-eight-centuries-long dream of ‘Greater England’ will have been achieved. With Scotland in its belly, there’ll always be an England! Neutered by our own home-bred wimps, Scotland and the Scots will have been annihilated. Reduced to nothing – no more than a ‘land’, a kind of super-estate, owned by England. Such has been the dream for so long, articulated in exactly these terms by Edward I. And it was never let go of, right down to our own day, as we know from the (admittedly deplorable) indiscretions of that David Cameron when he reported on that ‘purring’.

      For the moment, the Whale has swallowed the Sturgeon. But the Sturgeon isn’t Scotland. The Scots are far greater than any rotting sturgeon, or any rotten government, even their own. Time for the people to rise, and regain our historic mission. The distinction between Scotland and England is real, and important for the good of both nations, and of other nations too. We cannot allow it to be ignominiously ignored and swallowed up, made meaningless, and discarded.

      Our future does not depend on carefully worked out tricks, which convince no one, but on honest conviction that puts an end to all such trickery.

      Scotland cannot ultimately be won by despicable and servile and worthless tricks, no matter where or from which side they come from. Tricks are lies; and all you Tricksters – we see you! Stoap yer nonsense!

    238. James che says:

      I am watching with interest the slow but sure awaking of Neil Oliver.
      The realisation that the British government does not look after the British people, that britain is managed by a self interest of the wealthy empowering themselves to gaining more wealth by scraping and scratching the surplus from all of us. Causing open wound in society.
      From The issues of gender id politics to climate change,

      His last few commentries have been good to listen to, and made a lot of sense, the only straw left may break the camels back on from a dawning prospective that all present government are being running by unelected people behind the scenes,
      One day I hope he awakens enough, and will join us in our efforts to change our government here in Scotland for the common good.
      He is traveling and following a road many of us have here traispe’d before in our awakening, the difference is he has a platform to voice his awakening,
      I for one applaud him for actually using his opportunity box to stand up and speak up for millions of people.
      And he seems to have as much faith in the snp as we do,
      I watch his journey with growing interest,.

      Independence and changing our ( devolved )Scottish government for one that works for the common good of all Scots and held accountable by all the Scots,

      We cannot wait long Neil for you to catch up, for we want change sooner rather than later here in Scotland away from the wealthy oligarchs with perverted ideologies and scaremongering, and citizen imprisonments, while looking after our own land and wildlife,

    239. wull says:

      Diasy @ 12.53, you remind me of something, although it’s slightly different. Who builds the Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestine? In terms of directing operations, Israeli companies, I suppose. Yes, but who gets their hands dirty, and does the actual work on the ground, building these nicely appointed and well laid-out new houses, for the new-coming occupiers? Palestinians, basically.

      What you are telling us is not quite the same. If there are only two Scots out of 40, then percentage-wise even the workforce is already a massive occupation of the territory.

      How many of them will get to like the place, and decide to stay? Quite a few, I reckon. Can’t blame them for that, and do agree that our disastrous birth-rate over the past many years requires new blood. The question is: how do you help turn New Scots into Real Scots, who know enough about Scotland and its history to leave behind their old assumptions, and enter into a new narrative which, at the outset, is bound to be quite foreign to them. Because they never heard it before. And neither did far too many born-and-bred Scots.

      Don’t we badly need a real renaissance and reinvigoration of Scottish culture? It really looked as if that was happening during the three or four decades prior to the independence referendum of 2014. Since then – I am aghast to say – it looks to me as if it has stalled. And, indeed, stalled badly.

      It was at that time heading towards independence, and if that had been won, it would have flourished all the more. It was evident in the arts, in various forms of scholarship, historical in particular, but other fields as well. Now, so suddenly after September 2014, it seems (at least to me) to have hit the buffers. As if the wind was taken out of its sails. As far as I am concerned, this is a major cultural disaster. How do we get that wind blowing again, and revive it? Where do we get that new gust of wind from? Is there anything hopeful on the horizon?

    240. Confused says:

      Someone was looking for the “assets list”-post recently, it comes in a few variations, but this is ballpark – it might need some minor updates though, with the latest figures …

      Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK’s population.

      But we DO have…

      32% of the land area.
      61% of the sea area.
      90% of the fresh water.
      65% of the natural gas production.
      96.5% of the crude oil production.
      47% of the open cast coal production
      81% of the untapped coal reserves
      62% of the timber production
      46% of the total forest area
      92% of the hydro electric production
      40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
      60% of the fish landings
      30% of the beef herd
      20% of the sheep herd
      9% of the dairy herd
      10% of the pig herd
      15% if the cereal holdings
      20% of the potato holdings

      …obviously 100% of the Scotch Whiskey industry.

      We have a…

      17 billion pound construction industry
      13 billion food and drink industry
      10 billion business services industry
      9.3 billion chemical services industry
      A 9.3 billion tourism industry
      7 billion financial services industry
      5 billion aeroservice industry
      4.5 billion pound whiskey exports industry
      3.1 billion pound life sciences industry
      Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports
      We have 25% of Europes wave and wind energy potential.
      And finally we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil and gas reserves.

      All of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK’s population… Scotland should be rich!

      Do you know… This is the UK’s legacy of success in our history of being better-together is as follows…

      The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world
      The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union
      The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world
      The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU
      The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU
      The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU
      The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe
      The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe
      The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe.
      The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet!

      But surely these awful figures cannot be possible when you read the following Scottish statistics…

      Now, finally, did you also know that in all of the UK’s elections for Westminster ever!… Not one vote cast in SCOTLAND has ever mattered! Because of the Westminster numbers, whatever government England votes for, the UK gets. So we have no democracy here!!! 4 decades of tory rule that we voted against is proof enough, and our defiance was punished by the closure of all the mines; closure of all the steelworks; closure of all the shipyards losing hundreds if thousands of jobs. The term used by Westminster’s Thatcher when these industries needed some assistance was “let the markets decide”. Funny how when the greedy bankers collapsed everywhere they were bailed out to the tune of over a trillion pounds of our money… Not a mention of “let the markets decide”.

      FACTS:
      Fact: Scotland has an oil boom waiting to happen on the West Coast, but Michael Heseltine signed a cessation of any form of oil exploration in the entire area in the 80’s to make way for nuclear submarines which Scotland doesn’t want!

      Fact: Scotland has shown its revulsion time and time again to nuclear weapons but they place them here against our countries wishes. A recent contingency report was carried out a out the feasibility of relocating them in Portsmouth. The report stated that it was unfeasible because the detrimental risk to the area of an incident was too high. (Ok for the Clyde though)

      Fact: Scotland, with only 1 Tory MP, was forced to take the shocking attack on the poor & disabled called The Bedroom Tax, even though as our nations government, Holyrood voted to utterly reject this awful tax on the poor. Westminster gave us it anyway!

      Fact: We are led to believe that the oil in our waters is finished and its a dying industry. Yet 13.5 billion has been invested by oil companies in the last 2 years alone!

      Fact: The Clair Oil Field is about to open, and on its own has over 650 million barrels which will be extracted over 20+ years with production reaching a hundred thousand barrels a day!

      Fact: Scotland gives more to Westminster than it gets back. Do you really think they’d be so keen to keep us if we were being subsidised like they’d have us believe?

      Fact: Westminster has amassed over £1.3 trillion debt and still growing at nearly £6000 a second. Thats another £516 million today alone which YOU will have to pay for.

      Fact: Of the 178 countries that have gained their own independence across this planet, not one single one of them has ever asked to reverse this independence, and very few of them have the assets we have.

      and a Murphy post on GERS for a dessert-

      What GERS is asking us to believe is that with 8.2% of the UK population Scotland created between 54% and 60% of the UK deficit last year, depending on the basis used. And my answer is very simple: no it did not. How do I know that?

      Because Scotland would not have chosen to spend some of the cost charged to it by the UK government. And because the GERS methodology is wrong when comparing income and expenditure, as I have already noted today. But most of all it is because what this ignores is three issues. The first is that there is a MASSIVE BIAS IN FINANCIAL SERVICES in the UK that the Tax Justice Network has recently pointed out. This means VALUE IS EXTRACTED FROM SCOTLAND AND RECORDED IN LONDON.

      This data is, then, NOT JUST WRONG. It is ABSURDLY WRONG. From the methodology, to the lack of data, to the inherent biases and the failure to correct for obviously identifiable factors, the RESULT IS INTENDED TO PRODUCE AN OUTCOME. As has been noted: In a leaked memo the then Secretary of State for Scotland Ian Lang wrote “I judge that [GERS] is just what is needed at present in our campaign to maintain the initiative and undermine the other parties. This initiative could score against all of them.”

    241. Andy Ellis says:

      Independence, from my perspectivd, ought to mean back to zero, a total reboot. Effectively the start of an «exciting», if rather turbulent, myth busting total renewal.

      We should be suspicious of anyone advocating “back to zero” or “year zero” solutions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but on the day after independence is finally achieved, those in charge – whoever they might be – will have to tell us not only how they expect to get from our current state to the kind of better nation they aspire to, but what that better nation actually looks like.

      Anybody can come out with broad brush “motherhood and apple pie” statements about what *ought* to happen or not happen when we reach the sunny uplands of our better nation, but constructing a consensus or even a working majority about both the means and the ends isn’t a given. It’s likely a solid 25-30% of Scots in our new independent state will still be right of centre, socially conservative, small state, low tax types: it’s the same virtually everywhere else, so why would it be different here?

      Doubtless some in here would love to see a Socialist Republic of Scotland, but I have my doubts all the far rights types, libertarians, the small “c” conservatives, the liberals, social democrats, Greens and others are just going to roll over and accept what some in here appear to think is not just desirable but inevitable.

      There’a a lot of wish fulfilment and looking at the world through rose tinted specs going on amongst some BTL here, who appear to think progress is, if not easily or quickly achieved, still inevitable. It ain’t necessarily so. Scottish particularism aside, there’s no way the achievement of independence in and of itself is going to radically change peoples lifestyles or prospects over night. Power, influence and resources are going to have to be prised out of the hands of entrenched social and political interest groups.

      Those groups aren’t simply going to roll over the day after independence, and much as I hate to break it to some folk in here, the Scottish people have shown next to zero appetite for radical or rapid action since 2014. Of course that might change over the next year or two as many are predicting given the current economic situation, but I don’t think we can bank on it.

      Those expecting revolutionary progress, or some deus ex machina in the form of external economic pressures or intervention bringing about radical change are likely to be in for a let down. If brexit and recent Tory rule haven’t precipitated a tsunami of rage to sweep away the union, I have my doubts rising energy prices and the failure of the SNP to deliver #indyref2 will do it.

    242. Confused says:

      found some more – the famous mccrone paragraph

      “It must be concluded therefore that large revenues and balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds.”

      then an explanation of how the fraud, extract here, recorded value there, is done –

      oil will not be treated by the UK as a Scottish export – OIL LANDED IN HOLLAND IS CREDITED AS AN EXPORT FROM LONDON AND THE SE OF ENGLAND. GREATER THAN 60% OF SCOTTISH OIL AND GAS IS TREATED IN THIS WAY TO PUT TOGETHER THE UK REGIONAL EXPORT STATISTICS

      In a similar manner, most of SCOTTISH WHISKY IS CREDITED AS AN EXPORT FROM LONDON on the grounds that Diageo and other companies are registered for VAT there.

      ELECTRICITY PRODUCED IN SCOTLAND IS CREDITED TO LONDON AND THE SE AND TO NE ENGLAND IF EXPORTED TO FRANCE OR IRELAND. DITTO GAS

      There are several other gross inaccuracies in estimating Scottish exports arising from these adjustments. UK stats do not credit Scotland for trade in services (e.g. banking, tourism) and intangibles (e.g. financial investments or transfers)

      But despite all of this Scotland has always had – even according to UK Government ‘adjusted’ statistics a MASSIVE QUARTERLY EXPORT SURPLUS

      UK export statistics FOR ENGLAND SHOW MASSIVE QUARTERLY DEFICIT going back to the 1960’s – despite getting the credit for most of Scotland’s major exports using the adjustments above and others.

      WERE SCOTLAND’S REAL EXPORTS TO BE REFLECTED IN THE OFFICIAL STATISTICS THEY WOULD BE ‘OFF THE GRAPH’ COMPARED TO RUK

      – see here for the 4 UK Nations latest ‘official’ adjusted statistics

      https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx

      ALL PETROLEUM PRODUCTS CONSUMED IN SCOTLAND WERE TREATED IN THE STATISTICS AS AN IMPORT FROM ENGLAND.

      i.e. London is “so wealthy” because it takes credit for Scotland’s exports

    243. Ottomanboi says:

      ANDY ELLIS.
      Within the current context independence might be construed as a «revolutionary» act.
      The acquired conservatism of Unionist Scotland, historically it was not always so cautious, may frustrate the endeavour.
      However, the world is moving into political instability. That may be beneficial.
      On the other hand, it might just make the Scots even more reluctant to escape nannie.
      The British/Anglosaxon socio-cultural milieu is notoriously provincial.

    244. Geri says:

      Roger 10:48

      I don’t think she wears any. Wasn’t she listed on the sex pests hall of shame?
      Just what WM needs right now. A female bawjaws to replace the one leaving.



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