Wings Over Scotland

Ha ha ha ha – revenge is a dish best eaten cold, right enough.

Beginning to think that Kev might have been better off going to his board meeting.

I see no reason to change my policy of buying cat food at other outlets. If only Richard Murphy did cat food…

“So what’s your point caller” – I hear your opponents say.

So let’s move ahead. GERS is dust. If anyone uses it to argue against indy, we can reference this excerpt.

So what economic data CAN Scottish people rely on to estimate what an independent Scotland will look like?

We need to start regularly linking to a single source of reliable data, and not a collection of sources or info-graphics from Twitter users (credit to each and every one of them though).

The mischief maker in me fancies a document titled:

“The Correlated Economics of Livelihood and Trade in Scotland (CELTS)”

Hehe.

Gawd I just love it when Karma comes to town. 🙂

Ain’t Karma a BITCH! 😀

So I’m guessing that as our pet food salesman has been using the discredited GERS to fight against Scottish independence he will now be fighting FOR independence. After all if he now agrees that GERS is shite at predicting what an independent Scotland’s financial position would look like that is all his arguments agaisnt indy blown out the water, isn’t it? 🙂

GIGO!

Within a fortnight he’ll deny ever having said such a preposterous thing and as he’s always said, GERS shows Scotland is too poor.

And what other figures do you suggest they use Mr Robertson since the only figures they have are those estimated by Westminster who control the entire Scottish economy by the “block grant” system? I’m afraid you read like a very bad loser. Let’s not forget that once caught lying you are stuffed! Westminster’s lackeys lied about pensions, the EU and for God’s sake invasion from space! Why don’t you just take your faculties in hand and think for yourself. Unionism is in every way a falsehood and this is the rot that will bring it down!

A little light reading for Kevin. Arthur Miller wrote “Death of a salesman”. Very apt after today I thought

Oh well, guess there goes the cushy appearance fees. Back to the day job then.

Hague is busy re-writing history on Twitter as we speak.

Tweeted Hague earlier, highlighting Merryn Somerset Webb’s comments a year or two ago about GERS, which basically echo Richard Murphy and indeed Kevin’s remarks highlighted above. He replied saying “massively outdated – ask her now”.
But hang on, surely GERS is GERS, he took Murphy to task for saying the figures ten years ago were basically correct but not now (that confused me too) but now Ms Webb has changed her tune. Why? Nothing has changed on their premise and nothing has changed as to their reliability or lack of on determining what an independent Scotland’s finances would look like.

GERS tells us nothing about the strength of Scotland’s economy. It is not intended to. It is a record of government expenditure and revenues. It only tells us the results of government, at all levels, decisions on expenditure and revenues.

What it actually shows is that the UK government woefully fails to raise sufficient revenues to properly fund public services. Not that that should be a surprise to anyone. Scotland’s public sector revenues are little more than three quarters of the EU average. GERS also tells us that 83.5% of those revenues are directly controlled by Westminster.

One more thing it tells us is that Scotland’s public spending is not unaffordable. It is only around 90% of the EU average.

I really wish people would stop trying to discredit the GERS figures. For one thing it is an un-winnable argument as there are no more definitive figures to refer to. Mostly, though, because the GERS figures as they are, argued correctly, give us everything we need to make the economic case for Independence.

Ruchard Murphy’s view on GERS is an “outlier”.

What, as opposed to being an out and out liar like you, Kevvy-boy?

Well that was very informative wasn’t it, Basically it was an amateur DIY guy arguing with a Electrician as to what was the safest type of RCD to use in a domestic shower circuit.
Why does this person who as far as I can make out is as competent as my cat to comment on what is generally agreed by all as estimated data that is used to compile GERS , why does the BBC continue to allow him a platform is it because he speaks with authority or we need a Union top up today ? .
Mr expert quotes all these think tanks, stating them to be independent organisations, like the Fraser of Alexander institute ( tripped over his right wing guessers) , I prefer to believe a professional who has studied the economy in detail and I believe the ratings agencies who also concluded they couldn’t make an assessment of Scotlands economy based on the figures provided by Westminster.
I was surprised the BBC even allowed the discussion to take place, I wonder if they expected a knockout blow to be delivered by their favourite Union supporter, nice try but no Cigar.

Kevin Hague is really not that different to the posters on Wings though with one major exception. He craves the publicity that newspaper articles and appearances on TV or Radio bring him. Few posters on Wings would I guess other than the Rev.

I thought though a few months ago after Brexit through following the Wings twitter feed that he was swithering about where to go next. He definitely made a couple of tweets that may not have been pro-indy but were critical of the UK.

I seem to remember some of his twitter followers getting upset with this. Anyway there are many who are having such self doubt, Kenny Farquharson in The Times today is one, Alex Massie and Chris Deerin are others.

I still believe all 3 will vote No in a second referendum but if the likes of them are struggling with their consciences what are the vast majority of those that voted No last time feeling and thinking?

I think we have many converts yet to come, there is a wave of support for Independence building. That’s my hope and wish, I see some evidence of it coming true.

First a trickle then a flood.

Kevin goes large…

link to imgur.com

Nice one Rev!

It’s been so much fun this afternoon. I’m on twitter but don’t tweet much. However I congratulated Richard Murphy on his twitter feed and low and behold I had lots and lots of angry Unionists tweets!

Ha,ha! They are very rattled this afternoon.

Hi Handclapping@1.51pm

Haven’t seen you on Wings for ages.

According to the BBC website a prospective Tory candidate has been forced to withdraw after posting a series of online comments directed at the first minister, his name however will remain on the ballot paper, he apparently has links to Britain first, I wonder if Scotland in Union are the same organisation ? . And how many others are still on ballot papers but just haven’t been caught yet .
A disgraceful disgusting party whose actions should be laid at Ruthies door every single day . Let her own them, it’s her party the Red Cross ,the UN , and various police forces have and are investigating , and this lot have the bloody cheek to smear others .

That makes Kevin a GERS denier too, I assume?

So, which pundits out there still use GERS as if it was relevant to anything in the real world?

In order for any of us,to make correct decisions,firstly we need to first measure the ‘thing’ that needs to be measured (collect some data),this data then helps us to make,informed decisions.

The professor made some very good points,in highlighting the inaccuracies of the data and the fact we need it to be more ‘site specific’ data (in not only in terms of what we are measuring,but also where we are measuring) for the data to be of any use to us,the GERS data,collecting method may have been acceptable 10 years ago,when there was no requirement for ‘informed decision’ making.

Things have moved on,we now have a ‘need to know’ if this data is accurate,I think it is obvious to all,that we must update this whole process,to allow the data to be accurate for Scotland and fit for purpose.

If only some of the data is accurate and the ‘measuring devices’ have not been recalibrated (to a known standard ) we might as well all just produce our airline boarding passes and enjoy a warm beer,while the cabin crew stick their wet fingers in our ears,to check for temperature,wind speed,altitude,before they begin dragging us off the plane…..’now is not the right time’ the conditions are not right and anyways,we need your seats for ‘priority’ brexiteer passengers…..security,security!.

Here is my conundrum regarding Mr Kevin Hague. He has been saying since 2014 that GERS proves Scotland is broke and relies on the goodwill of Westminster and the English people to keep us afloat. Therefore Independence is non-viable.

But now he says that GERS doesn’t tell you anything about an independent Scotland’s finances. His submission is that they are accurate guesstimates, but they tell you nothing. I am confused.

So does that mean wee Kev is either extremely stupid or a complete liar,i have not worked that one out yet.

Nobody suggests that the GERS figures show what a future independent Scotland would look like.

So Kev want to tell me why you have been suggesting this for nearly 5 years.

I do feel a bit sorry for the Prof getting dragged into debating with a snickering abusive wean with the brain the size of a pea.

He must be wondering what the hell he did to find himself debating economics with a complete moron.

My grasp of macro economics is well, none!
So..when economists talk of Scotland as a 150 billion pound economy what does that mean

Asking for myself coz I’m rubbish at this stuff!

This along with a whole heap of other stuff over the last year it discredits GERS completely.
It is the same with a multi site business if they are fully integrated financially. When you sell one part off the economic picture changes completely for the sold business for a whole host of reasons. A country is the same although obviously the latter has more variables.
Good you caught this Stu.

Looks like “Winalot” lostalot.

🙂

Charts don’t work on radio.

@Marcia

What about the top 40 on a Sunday then 🙂 Just kidding.

I see one-man Dunning-Kruger effect Kevin is still just as insufferable as last time.

Oh!Come on! Guys and Gals.

It isn’t that GERS uses the wrong figures that makes them utter trash. GERS Figures are mainly rough estimates at best and are thus inherently inaccurate by definition.

It is the GERS methodology that, if looked at without the complication of raw figures, that gives the Westminster cunning plan away. Further it is not the quoted figures that gives the lie but the omitted and never quoted figures that tell the tale.

Take, for example the oil & gas revenues that Westminster claims as the UK’s extra-regio-Territory contribution. They do not come from an extra-regio area they come fairly and squarely around 97% from the Scottish geographic area. Yet Westminster accounts them on a population share rather than the true geographic share.

Then we have VAT. Let’s consider just the Road Fuel Duty collected at the garage forecourts and that duty also carries VAT. Scotland has a small population but they are spread thin on the ground and thus distances travelled just for essentials are much greater.

A cockney can shop for just about anything, visit any essential service and get to almost anything they require on foot within easy reach of their home. A rural Scot may drive hundreds of miles for a single essential service. It all requires road fuel and payment of VAT. Not to mention that the prices charged for that road fuel are higher in rural Scotland. But here’s the thing. If that road fuel is bought from, for example a UK wide Supermarket, like Tesco, then both the VAT and the Road Fuel Duty will be paid to HM Treasury as from Tesco’s head office and thus accounted as earned in England.

Once again it is only estimated by GERS as a population percentage. So what about Scots exports that leave the UK from England on their way out of the UK – Aye! That’s right it is accounted as English Exports.

Just about ever figure is chosen on such wrong basis in GERS and can be seen to be mince and not a single actual numerical figure in sight.

Trying to be dispassionate and objective, I don’t think anybody learned anything from that “debate”.

Now, correct me if I’m wrong here, but I put this forward as an example of why GERS is unreliable:

To calculate (make that guesstimate) Scotland’s GDP, they at first calculated a GDP for Scotland something like 43rd in the world; Scotland would be between Finland and Portugal. They argued that GDP figure included oil, and was based on GERS, however the GERS figure was calculated UK data, UK oil production. Of that UK oil production, Scotland’s pro-capita “share” of UK oil was 8-10% , so Scotland’s GDP was thus similar to Portugal, but based on GERS figures which attributed to Scotland a mere 10% of its rightful oil revenue. Make a much appropriate comparison with GDP calculated to include Scotland’s 96% share of “UK” oil which WOULD be Scotland’s oil, and Scotland’s GDP looks infinitely better, 5-7th place, somewhat better than 43rd.

The point is the GERS data is unsuitable as a projection of an Independent Scotland’s economic performance, because as in the above example, there is a rationale behind working out a pro-rata figure, but that rationale can be, and very often is clumsy, inaccurate, and wildly at odds with what the true figure would actually be.

To prepare economic figures for worthwhile comparison, it’s no good using GERS and it’s sweeping presumptions and extrapolations. What Scotland requires is the raw actual data. The actual numbers, actual expenditure, actual income. Not guesses, not extrapolations, not equivalences.

The oil is just one facet of GERS, but the above example illustrates how the figures can be argued as diligently prepared, and fitted to a logical rationale, but yet still wildly distort the economic reality. Think about that a minute. If they can base assumptions and predictions upon Scotland securing merely a tenth of its real revenue from oil, then what other inaccuracies to the GERS figures inadvertent obscure?

As the Scottish and English/British economies diversify and grow apart; think our NHS, free prescriptions, free healthcare, AIDS drugs, then think of our VAT paying Police, our access to Free University Education, our oil, our whisky, our whisky that exits the UK via an English port… The more different we become economically, the less and less GERS can reliably tell us. And after independence, we’ll do everything differently.

Who knows the true picture? Well, the UK Treasury does, but isn’t telling. The whole point is, the UK Treasury needs to open the books. GERS isn’t good enough, since it does not provide the actual information required. Not only does it prevent you working out anything accurately, you cannot even quantify a margin of error.

The point Professor Murphy was trying to make, and not very well I fear, was that an accountant cannot audit an estimated tax return. It is the accountancy equivalent of asking how long a piece of string is. An accountant needs the actual ledger with income and expenditure to do his job with appropriate thoroughness to produce worthwhile data and meaningful conclusions.

Presenting us with GERS rather than raw data is the Treasury telling Scotland your economic performance is X,Y, or Z because we, the Treasury, says it is.

Kevvy-boy calls Richard Murphy “a flat earth denier”.

Yeah, Kevvy-boy. As are most people.

Unionist politicians and pundits just don’t get it. The pro-Indy lobby, the SG, or SNP don’t want much from London/WM/UK government. Although they believe that is exactly what we want.

No, what we want is simple. We want them to stop whinging, moaning and obstructing. We want them to get out of our way!

Unionist contributions to the constitutional debate are nil. They make no case for their Union, they have no vision for a UK future, they seem to have nothing positive to say. Denial, spin, lies, and obstruction. Not just Scotland, but the whole Brexit fiasco. Sad and pathetic.

The thing is, macro-economics, in-general, uses empirical tools in a similar way to the colour management algorithms in photo-editing software. No matter how well intended or practiced, such interpretation generally fails to reproduce the true pigments and hues of real life circumstances. A little more sophistication is required to achieve that end.

..For some years a cult figure of postmodern theory, Baudrillard moved beyond the postmodern discourse from the early 1980s to the present, and has developed a highly idiosyncratic mode of philosophical and cultural analysis. This entry focuses on the development of Baudrillard’s unique modes of thought and how he moved from social theory to postmodern theory to a provocative type of philosophical analysis.[1] In retrospect, Baudrillard can be seen a theorist who has traced in original ways the life of signs and impact of technology on social life, and who has systematically criticized major modes of modern thought, while developing his own philosophical perspectives.

link to plato.stanford.edu

Don’t worry somewhere and someone deep in a treasury cavern will know pretty well what Scotland’s real GDP should be.
That is precisely the reason that no data is allegedly gathered, hence vague estimates.

However, they will have a close idea and that breeds the fear of losing us. There is no way the treasury has such a vague idea, they will have great software to pin it as near as they can, because they need to know and it would be remiss of them if they didn’t.

Akin to the McKrone report, it is well hidden from us.If we were as bad as they say, they would be leaving the Union themselves and setting us adrift. The treasury is our worst enemy, as it has been for 300 years. Trust nothing that comes from them nor anything associated with them.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but did not Dr Andrew Goudie who was the chief economist in the Scottish government around the time of devolution, not state time and time again that GERS were meaningless to evaluate the finances of an indy Scotland.

This has been known a long time.

He should have gone to his board meeting.

Boards dont hit back.

Unlike Mr Murphy.

What was the law in the Charles Bronson film, “Murphy’s Law”

Don’t Fuck with Murphy!

At least we’ll never have to experience again Andrew Neil asking the First Minister if she is going to thank the English for subsidising Scotland

OT The odd thing about the ventriloquist on the radio. It was performed in front of a live audience each week. And they laughed!

No sooner do I write the above than Willie Rennie gets the headlines on Herald Britland online, accusing Nicola Sturgeon of ‘losing the plot’, and apparently making a right royal fool of himself, doubtless in homage to his Better Together Blue Tory Co-pilot, Ruth the Rapefinder General by:_
“Kicking off the LibDem campaign by riding a giant lawnmower around a machinery depot in Inverkeithing” to launch the Lib Dem manifesto.
He added:- “the May 4 vote was a chance to send a warning to the SNP.”
The man’s a grade A dick.

@Flower of Scotland
I’m glad at least one of us has a working memory! I’m normally so late on the threads now that somebody has already said what I wanted to say.

Had a wee look at yatube at the weekend, Sky news were using data produced by the “poop scoop bag” salesman, they even put his name up on the screen.
I thought Sky TV were shite, but they are worse than that.
I suppose most of the Sky viewers are only watching sport.

Aye Jack, as my friend Patrician said just the other night.

“Ask them who we owe this 15 Billion pounds to?”

and as @farrochie said today. “Who in the Scottish Government has the means and the authority to pay down this deficit”

Good questions both.

Any self respecting people would want to be independent of a coloniser at any cost.

Unfortunately there are too many selfish middle class Scots who would rather live under colonial rule than perhaps suffer a small drop in income which would benefit those less well off then themselves.

Proud Scots, but— are a disgrace to Scotland.

A good bit of necessary satire from Janey Godley;

link to twitter.com

So good can we have all MSN papers print the fact as a headline and it feature on BBC news at 6. I doubt it but in an independent Scotland yes.
Well covered as always Stu and a cause I can leave alone now.
PS has anyone told Murdo?

Thanks for that, Marcia @6.37.

The Unionists seem awfully grumpy these days

…is it something we said?

🙂

Rock
Care to detail the “intersectionality” of your analysis? There may be some truth to your point but you have a rather blunt and unhelpful way of expressing yourself, IMHO. More persuasion and less divisive accusation please.

Look at the new guy. Welcome to Scotland 2017, 1917 Scotland was probably the same too.

Richard Murphy? @RichardJMurphy 37m37 minutes ago
More
To those who disagreed today, I am baffled and bemused. Why don’t you want Scotland to have the best data it can have? I just don’t get that

Rock
Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse, I meant any intersectionality identified in your analysis, of course.

Rusty, Edinburgh. 😉

Message to BritNat Zoomer, K**** H****; if you sat at a board meeting & attempted to convince the members that your company’s most recent financial performance was a cast iron indicator of future revenues & expenses, they would walk you out the door.

Why?

Any director worth his salt would demand to know what action or change in direction you are going to take in order to reverse your company’s poor performance & return it to profitability.

And you would be the first to admit that any debt your company carried, might initially constrain your choices but it could never be an indicator of future financial performance.

Quite why H**** is convinced these options would not available to an independent Scotland remains a mystery.

Maybe he’s just bitter because not enough people want to buy his dog food?

see they are planning a new 2 mile tunnel under the Thames connecting to the M25.
Wonder how much that will cost us if we don’t vote YES

I think rodeo Ruth’s teas oot. Loss of support for her might well be accelerating. There was a hustings at Strachur last night. The Tory candidate,a pleasant and articulate lady,was a Labour councillor over at Greenock for 10 years. That got people to wondering that maybe she was a Tory that won a council seat by pretending to be Labour as the chance of Greenock electing Tories is very low. Or maybe she was Labour pretending to be Tory to win a council seat in Argyll.

But when she explained that Ruth Davidson had inspired her to support the Tories there was an audible drawing in of breaths and a few muttered FFSs in a very large audience.

@Bob Mack says: 12 April, 2017 at 5:59 pm:

“Did not Dr Andrew Goudie who was the chief economist in the Scottish government around the time of devolution, not state time and time again that GERS were meaningless to evaluate the finances of an indy Scotland.”

Yes Bob Mack, we old hands knew what GERS was soon after their first exposition. Just like we knew about the McCrone Report even although it was quickly hidden away from public view.

Like today, though, we had lots of trouble getting the information out to the general public. That factor is still a major stumbling block to our independence. Yet in spite of that major hurdle the truth is slowly getting out there to the people of Scotland.

Someone, (see note), once said, “There are none so blind as those who will not see”.

NOTE:- “this saying comes from Bible. (Jer. 5:21 – King James version):-
“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.”

The presently worded saying has been traced back in English to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse as quoted. “In 1738, it was used by Jonathan Swift in his ‘Polite Conversation,’. It is first recorded in the USA in the 1713 ‘Works of Thomas Chalkley’.”.

@mike cassidy says: 12 April, 2017 at 6:06 pm:

“He should have gone to his board meeting.
Boards dont hit back.”

Not unless you take a scaffolding board and whap him on the back of the head with it.

” … OT The odd thing about the ventriloquist on the radio. It was performed in front of a live audience each week. And they laughed!”

Och! mike, it was canned laughter. There were no microphones covering the radio audiences. Note that you never heard anyone in the audience cough, sneeze or make any other noises than exaggerated applause or exaggerated laughter.

The sound mixer at the sound console just slid the mixer control up at the appropriate point you never heard the real audience on radio. BTW: You still don’t.

Thepnr @ 7.04

I don’T think it was a case of Mrs Thatcher having a bright idea and switching from manufacturing to financial services etc. The reality was more complex and many people before and after Mrs Thatcher hid their culpability in the demise of British manufacturing.

Many of the heavy industries such as shipbuilding and mining were in decline long before Mrs Thatcher came along but blaming her for all of it suits too many people including the Labour party who were just as culpable and in some cases maybe more than Mrs Thatcher. By the way, Ravenscraig closed after Mrs Thatcher left office and it was a Tory Government in the 1950s that gave the go ahead for its expansion.

Labour were in Power in the 1960s and 1970s yet did little to stop the decline. And they were in Power again from 1997 -2010 yet did little to stop the job losses in manufacturing instead going full out for banking and financial services. More so than Mrs Thatcher who actually signed the UK up to Base I, an early attempt at banking regulation and who can forget Gordon Brown’s light touch regulation. During Tony Blair time in office manufacturing as a share of GDP halved from 22% to 11.5% and 2 million jobs were lost.

When Labour were fighting the 1979 election they claimed that inflation was 8%, the Tories said 16% but the reality was nearer 25%. Do you know what that is like? Well one week you go shopping and a £1 buys a loaf and a packet of digestive biscuits, the next week it buys the loaf and the next week…! Interest rates were increased by Mrs Thatcher to tackle inflation but that was too narrow a focus and the recession that resulted strongly suggests that it was too drastic a policy.

Details of shipyard closures on the Clyde from 1900s onwards. The decline started in the 1900s and continued on. The two world wars delayed the decline but closures picked up again in the 1969s – note the number of closures when Labour were in Power in 1960s.

link to inverclydeshipbuilding.co.uk

Mining was the same. Two links one for mine closures in Central Scotland from 1947 onwards and the other for mine closures during the terms in office of various Prime Ministers
link to healeyhero.co.uk
link to nmrs.org.uk

The picture for rail and steel was similar. Beeching cuts in the 60s – almost half the network closed down for example.
By the time Mrs Thatcher came along these industries had already been in decline for some time.

@Legerwood

Always happy to be put straight. I know there’s a lot more to it than simply blaming Thatcher. For me though her and her government are the focus of my attention simply because I started work in the shipyard in 1975. In 1977 the yards were nationalised by the then Labour government and mine closed in 1980 under Thatcher.

It cost the government more at that time to pay for those made redundant and their families on the dole than it would have to keep the yard open.

Your absolutely right though that neglect to invest in new equipment and methods was a large part of their demise. However since all the yards were privately owned up until 1977 that can hardly be blamed on Labour.

Iain MacWhirter in the New Statesman in 2009 says it better than I can.

“Scottish heavy industry had been in decline since the end of the First World War, but Scotland was still a society based around industrial communities, as with the Ravenscraig steelworks in Motherwell and the coal mines of Fife.

The nationalist pop duo the Proclaimers wrote a hit song in the 1980s, “Letter from America”, which listed the industrial icons that had closed: “Bathgate no more/Linwood no more/Methil no more . . .”

link to archive.is

@Scottie Dog
I thought the argument was that all the figures are estimates of proportions of estimates.

Just looking at the figures for income tax “raised” in Scotland, HMRC are only just now, at the start of the 2017-18 tax year for which they have to account for the non-dividend, non-something-else, tax on income in Scotland, able to say who are the Scottish income tax payers, and how many they are. We may know by mid 2018 what HMRC have assessed as due and how much of that they have collected.

Multiply the guess work by the bits they wont tell us about, eg the income tax on dividend income etc, VAT actually returned through London HQ and so on and basically we haven’t a clue what Scotland’s revenue is right now or what it would turn out to be in the first year of independence even if they left everything unchanged for that first year.

And of course if you are a complete tinfoil artist there is always the possibility that HMRC will lie to us anyway 🙂

The report on the European referendum today also said that the UK government must in future prepare for all outcomes of a referendum. It should therefore be in the UK government’s interest to produce accurate figures (not estimates), just as much as in Scotland’s interests, or in Manchester’s interests for that matter. The fact they don’t means something.

Oh dear British fans spreading their usual brand of tourism in Madrid , by getting to know the locals and their culture, such fine ambassadors don’t you think ? .

O/T I have just been over on Craig Murray’s blog and picked up this piece about the Sarin incident in Syria. It makes you think about the true perpetrators of the attack and calls into question Trump’s evidence-free approach to these things.

link to imgur.com

What you all seem to me missing is that these were the boom & bust years. These were, as usual, stacked against Scotland.

The bust would begin in the London area and Westminster take instant action that instantly affected the entire United Kingdom. Trouble is that those areas furthest from London had not yet seen any benefits from the last boom that had also began in the London area and spread slowly northwards. In short the booms were a slow outward spread from London while the remedial actions were instantly applied everywhere including those parts that had never had the boom.

So Scotland was hit by remedial action but had never benefitted from the previous boom and one of the remedial actions was that UK wide business’ would make cut-backs and always began with their Scottish branches first and worked their way southwards.

Thus the English North East also suffered the remedial actions but not nearly so much or so bad as had Scotland.

Then before the next boom reached Scotland the economy of London overheated and Westminster began the next remedial action. It was not just the private sector doing the cut backs in Scotland for so were the nationalised industries and the Royal Dockyards, Air Bases and Army Regiments.

During this period the Government removed the Nuclear Submarine work that Rosyth Dockyard that had specialised in from day one and developed it. The moved it to Devonport and they, Devonport, hadn’t a clue.

Ruth Davidson outflanks the Holyrood parliament.

link to caltonjock.com

P.S. Of course, Britain’s medievalist Establishment revels in it’s own exceptionalism and considers human rights with the same skepticism any self-respecting slave owning class might (see UK Supreme Court v Scotland).

Tomorrow’s National front page:

@crazycat –

Cheers, but I don’t believe you’ve anything to apologise for.

Way things are going, this whole stushie could end-up being referred-to (in Scotland at any rate) as the ‘Ruth Clause’, and if that happens she’ll have no-one to blame but herself.

Demo in ‘George’ Square tomorrow protesting against the whole thing. Here’s hoping the weather and turnout are fair. Alison Thewliss has been tenacious and deserves great credit for highlighting this scandalous Tory legislation.

P.S. I’m not suggesting that anyone start using ‘Ruth Clause’ simply to circumvent WOS filtration, but if it catches on, so be it.

😉

@ Ian B

Are you going to George Square tomorrow? I’m still trying to decide – it deserves support but sloth may win out.

Ruthie has just labelled herself with the tag of being more sympathetic towards the attacker than with the victim.

OT
Mr Peffers. Even taking into account the difference between recording laughter live and actually creating an artificial laughter track

link to archive.is

I will not be able to listen to old radio comedies in the same way again.

A quote from here.

link to archive.is

” At least, in those days, most of the big radio shows had live audiences, but canned laughter may have already been added or used in place of some. I once attended a recording of Itma at the Aolean hall in London and the only suspect thing was that the staff trained the audience in responding properly to the show… they held up boards saying ‘Applause’ during certain parts of the show. “

@Sinky says: 12 April, 2017 at 10:32 pm:

“Did BBC TV report on Western Isles Tory council candidate’s online violent threats to Nicola Sturgeon?”

No idea, sinky. I never watch live BBC but after your post had a Google and found this :-

link to bbc.co.uk

heedtracker @ 10.37

A lot of decisions could have been taken differently. If Wilson had backed Barbara Castle and her ‘In place of strife’ would that have helped to cut the industrial unrest of the 1970s and given what was left of the heavy industries a chance to modernise and survive?

For sure the oil industry could have been organised better eg Norway and the money that was coming on stream from the mid 1970s could have been spent to modernise manufacturing.

Lots of what ifs for lots of people to addressee and lessons to be learned.

PS you used quotation marks – I am touched.

It wasn’t so long ago that UK governments encouraged families to have more than two children. They paid them child benefit or family allowance as it was it my day.

Reason was clear for the economy to grow we needed a larger workforce. That’s still true today yet the UK want to restrict immigration and are discouraging families with more than two children.

We are governed by fools, fools I’ll tell yeh!

‘GERS’ debunked on terrestrial radio ~ excellent stuff.

Enjoying the build-up and looking forward tae the results of Scotland’s local elections. Who would have thought it could be SOOOOO much fun he he 🙂

Howsabout you? In the final week, everything’s gonna go intae overdrive.

Dya wanna see (or hear) that ‘swing-o-meter’ go off the scale again!

Especially in Glasgow ~ Yes!

Scottish local elections day digital countdown clock:
3 weeks tomorrow.

Vote yellow.

Hopefully there will be a decent turnout in George Sq in Glasgow for tomorrow night’s Protest against this Ruth’s clause.

@crazycat –

Unfortunately, I won’t make it to Glasgow tomorrow for the Ruth Clause demo, but more power to abody involved.

Will be watching closely to see what kind of turnout there is, and whether or not our ‘Scottish’ media deign to give it any coverage.

Sometimes we can do little more than ‘watch’, but there’s nothing wrong with that, so long as we’re awake when we do!

Will Gary Robinson be all over this Ruth story on Tomorrow’s GMS???

Or will he protect an ex work mate???

Kev will be along soon arguing that he didn’t shoot himself in the foot because his argument never had a leg to stand on in the first place.

heedtracker @ 11.09

If by the Rail industry you mean the building of trains then certainly that is all in England.

Some of the new trains for Scotland have been built in Japan and due to come into service later this year. The rest of the order will be built at the Hitachi plant that was built in England.

Passenger numbers are growing year on year and the investment being made in the railway infrastructure in Scotland now is long overdue and will provide a better service but it is not manufacturing. Scotland was stripped of that over a long period of time as you can see from the links I put in my original post on this issue and successive governments both Labour and Tory were responsible for that.

Even a a fleeting visit to England underlines how neglected Scotland is in comparison.

@ Graeme Doig

link to facebook.com

I don’t do FB but can read this so I think it’s publicly accessible, unlike some of the pages that people here link to from time to time (cough – not you).

@ Graeme Doig

I tried to answer your question, and don’t think I used any banned words, but it has not yet appeared.

If you look at Alison Thewliss’ twitter, it’s quite near the top.

@ReluctantNationalist

“Don’t go giving him ideas for his next tweet.”

You mean he might read this blog?

Another admission?

*faints*

@ Swami

He is omnipotent. Like the Lawnmower Man.

*farts*

Does anyone know if the demo in George Square at 6pm tomorrow is being live streamed?

Startling footage worth watching

mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=a3f30440ec&view=fimg&th=15b64c3f8b0459eb&attid=0.1&disp=thd&realattid=15b64c14e943809a7801&attbid=ANGjdJ_NZx26EqphE4-16GZwKKlCqurzimnmmHZMJ3CxmPkFyMU261WiuYMatHfCSLaBUYOV076gPLRikhS2-jp2-NQ9mw4y3UnQtZcq6O_178GiZbw47hrFeWMTlso&ats=1492053471284&rm=15b64c3f8b0459eb&zw&sz=w640-h360