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Scotland’s sourest grapes

Posted on April 11, 2017 by

Most of the Scottish media today reports the latest Lord Ashcroft poll, which found Nicola Sturgeon to be by a distance the most popular political leader in Scotland.

“Scots feel quite positive about Sturgeon”, said the Daily Record, while the Scotsman headline was “Poll shows Scots approve of Sturgeon’s performance” and the Herald went with “Poll reveals strong support for Sturgeon”.

All three opened with almost identical paragraphs observing that the First Minister was the only UK politician to record a net positive approval rating in Scotland, putting her a thumping 32 points ahead of her nearest domestic rival.

The Scottish Daily Mail, though, had a slightly different take.

The petted-lip headline, while reminiscent of a child’s insincere apology, was actually as good as it got. The next three paragraphs were exercises in resentful bitterness and spin so comically extreme it almost generated its own gravitational field.

“More than one in four people thinks Nicola Sturgeon is doing a ‘terrible’ job as First Minister.

Far more Scots have strongly negative opinions of the SNP leader than have strongly positive perceptions, according to a poll.

The survey, by Lord Ashcroft, shows 26 per cent rate her as ‘terrible’, while only 19 per cent say she is ‘excellent’.”

It served as a sharp reminder, if one were needed, that readers should always read newspaper stories in the context of who’s writing them, and with a keen eye for what’s being left out as well as what you’re being told.

(The story wasn’t even strictly accurate on its own skewed terms. The poll specified a rating of precisely 0 – on a scale of 0 to 100 – as meaning “terrible”, but the full data tables only group the scores in bands of 10, so there’s actually no detectable way of knowing how many people gave the FM a 0.)

In an attempt to finish on a piece of data which was more to its liking, the Mail noted that respondents in Scotland, like those elsewhere in the UK, rated the outcome of Brexit as the most important issue facing the UK. But the paper’s presentation of that priority – “securing a good Brexit deal” – was somewhat less than honest.

The rather more ambiguous option which had actually been offered by Ashcroft to poll respondents was “Negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU on the right terms”.

And that’s a very different proposition, because as it happens we already know what voters in Scotland consider to be “the right terms”:

More than half of Scots think the right terms for Brexit are those under which Scotland doesn’t have to exit at all. And indeed, in the whole UK-wide sample of over 10,000 voters, the exact same numbers of Remain and Leave voters – 37% – marked the option as their most important, clearly illustrating that “the right terms” means different things to different people.

(We were passingly interested to note that “cutting the deficit and the debt”ie austerity – is now the priority of just 3% of British voters, and “growing the economy” was considerably less important than “controlling immigration”, which is probably just as well given the effect that reducing immigration will have on the economy. Among Scottish voters the last two priorities were reversed.)

But the Mail knows that “securing a good Brexit deal” is the standard Unionist line for Scotland shutting up, eating its cereal and accepting that it’s going to be dragged out of the EU against its will, so it deliberately distorts the findings to suit its own agenda, ensuring that the piece ends as misleadingly as it began.

We suppose at least that part was a bit more subtle.

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  1. 11 04 17 12:56

    Scotland’s sourest grapes | speymouth

240 to “Scotland’s sourest grapes”

  1. Irma says:

    Believe NOTHING you read in these rags! Check with Wings to see what the actual truth is, but don’t even wrap chips in these lying excuses for what remains of the MSM in this country.

  2. Richardinho says:

    Not surprised to see Ruthy losing some of her sheen with the Scottish public. I would have been reasonably positive about her (as positive as you can be about a Tory) a couple of years ago. The big turning point for me was her lying about ‘burly men’ at the last Westminster election, and course a whole stream of fibs ever since, plus the fact that she’s made it plain that her ambitions go now further than being a bagman for the UK government.

  3. Irene says:

    Believe NOTHING you read in these rags! Check with Wings to see what the actual truth is, but don’t even wrap chips in these lying excuses for what remains of the MSM in this country.

  4. Desimond says:

    Has the expert Andrew Neil did a full review of this latest “Scotland says Sturgeon must go” poll yet

    Even better..have they for some unknown reason dragged John Curtice in to comment on the Poll as he is the only person in UK who can read figures in a table apparently

  5. Yerkitbreeks says:

    Canvassing yesterday, a supporter suggested I avoid his neighbor with my leaflet – but how else to counter the Mail / Dacre prism ?

  6. Training Day says:

    ‘81% of Scots think Sturgeon is doing a non-excellent job. She doesn’t speak for Scotland’.

    That will be the default line handed to metropolitan ‘journalists’ who will feature on the likes of Sky News and BBC papers review. It goes without saying that without exception they will be only too happy to parrot it back.

  7. Vestas says:

    @Yerkitbreeks 12:09 pm

    “Canvassing yesterday, a supporter suggested I avoid his neighbor with my leaflet – but how else to counter the Mail / Dacre prism ?”

    You won’t convince a DM reader, you’re wasting your time.

    Remember this is a paper who employs Katie Hopkins, a racist clickbait waste of space so vile that even the SUN sacked her.

    Anyone who voluntarily buys the DM is a right-wing racist. No ifs, buts or maybes. They’re right-wing racists to the core & hell will freeze over before you convince them to vote SNP, never mind Yes 🙂

  8. Dr Jim says:

    The Mail should just be honest with itself get its uniform on and print what it REALLY wants to say

  9. Dr Ew says:

    I can’t afford cereal.

  10. Ken MacColl says:

    As a rather sad, media obsessed OAP I follow our dreadful press and broadcast media closely and I am constantly struck at the different angles presented by those papers that present “Scottish” editions of their publications compared to the National (UK) versions. The late evening SKY news analysis of the press as publication progresses shows the headlines as they emerge, to be commented upon by an almost exclusive inner M25 cast, and a brief glance at the “Scottish” front pages on the newsagents stands in the morning takes up the routinely predictable unionist line followed blindly by the bulk of the press here.
    What I find surprising, and encouraging, is that it is clear that although those in Scotland continue to buy the available “Scottish” press -although in steadily reducing numbers- they do not buy into the constant lies and half truths peddled by the likes of the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Herald, Record, Scotsman (?) et al.

  11. JPJ2 says:

    The unionist spin is only fooling their less politically alert supporters. It makes unionist complacency a risk for them, and a boon for those pro-independence.

    The most important recent polls for me are this one showing what we all knew, that Sturgeon is much more popular than Davidson, and the poll that showed 61-39% thought that Holyrood not Westminster should decide if there should be another independence referendum.

    Both of these increase sharply the likelihood of a Yes vote next time, a next time which will come, and the longer the delay, the likelier is a Yes vote, for demographic reasons if nothing else.

  12. Robert Graham says:

    A whole country being systematically being lied to and held hostage by a foreign government and media , I believe it’s referred to as a Occupation , we cant trust any British based News organisation to even come close to reporting News rather than inventing it anymore , made up stories from a corrupt media .

  13. Scott says:

    Davidson now being found out I would like to see a list of the lies she has told in Parliament and the nasty “sit Down” and others but our Presiding Officer Ken Macintosh takes note but does nothing about her see part of his answer to me.

    I too noted the comments which caught your attention, but decided on this occasion not to intervene. I try to strike a balance between maintaining standards of courtesy and respect whilst also providing all Members with the opportunity to express themselves with passion. Rather than interrupting proceedings to rebuke a Member, I prefer to speak to my colleagues in person.
    Both are ex BBC just saying.

  14. David Mccann says:

    @ Vestas.

    I have to disagree that all Mail readers are lost causes.
    Many especially women buy it for reasons other than its political stance- fashion etc.

    No reason to avoid convincing them of the benefits of independence.

    Get the message out no matter who they are!

  15. Andy Anderson says:

    At least three mainly unionist papers were nearly accurate and gave the story a positive spin. A change indeed from past times.
    To me the DM should be called the EDL Gazette for thick folk.

  16. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    That crap picture of Sturgeon they’ve chosen aswell – just tops off the hilariously arsey tone of the headline.

    Oh, and I’ve moved away from not being tothered a baw about staying in the EU, to being a fan of it. Add me to the 51%.

  17. dakk says:

    ‘Scotland’s sourest of grapes’

    The Daily Mail is about as Scottish as Lord Rothermere.

    It is ersatz Scottish,just like all the mad Yoons we are plagued with.

    Come Independence they will need to shape up or get out.

  18. robin says:

    Interesting that the express has an article proclaiming that Ruth is more popular than Nicola?
    What your thought (keep them clean please)

  19. Alt Clut says:

    As I always say in conversations involving the vile ‘Mail’ – just in case there is still anyone out there who doesn’t know the pedigree of the poisonous rag it has a ‘proud’ record including;


    Enough said ?

  20. Arthur Martin says:

    It must be quite depressing working for the Scottish Daily Mail. You’re handed a report and ordered to come up with an article that should be the polar opposite of any story, regardless of how positive it may be, that doesn’t fit in with its narrow minded Unionist agenda.
    These people must be miserable buggers sitting in their wee offices grinding out negativity after negativity, racking their poor wee addled minds in an attempt to try and stop the inevitability of Scottish Independence.

    What must really grip their shit is the fact that their own obsessive campaign for a Unionist Utopia brought about by the insanity of Brexit will be the major reason for the end of the precious Union. Give it Five years and Scotland will be an Independent country, Ireland will be reunified and England and Wales will be neck deep in a big shitty mess of their own making.

    Maybe they will become experts at putting a positive spin on all the gloom and doom stories that Brexit will inevitably bring them.

  21. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @Robert Graham,

    In a nutshell…

    “A whole country being systematically being lied to and held hostage by a foreign government and media.”

    So true. 🙁

  22. Vestas says:

    @David Mccann 12:44 pm :

    “@ Vestas.

    I have to disagree that all Mail readers are lost causes.
    Many especially women buy it for reasons other than its political stance- fashion etc.”

    I suspect the number of people who buy it solely for “lifestyle articles” is vanishingly small though.

    Are we expected to believe they put their morals aside when they look at the lurid headlines about immigrants/”others” because its world-class fashion or cookery? They don’t read the rest of the paper then?

    If the hat fits….

    Anyway we’ll agree to disagree 🙂

  23. Vestas says:

    @Reluctant Nationalist 12:51 pm :

    “That crap picture of Sturgeon they’ve chosen aswell”

    I reckon it’s been photoshopped a tad to make her look fatter/more bloated….

  24. Capella says:

    “Best of a bad lot”. Sour grapes indeed. Feel the grudge. I suppose they felt they had to say something about it.

    How interesting that Scots rate Angela Merkel positively. I’m quite impressed with our objective assessments of politicians.

    Craig Murray has a good analysis of the Scottish findings too:

  25. K1 says:

    Ah mean, ah get it, ah really do…here it is in Ashcroft’s poll. Here’s the thing though how utterly beyond stupid dae ye huv tae be to ‘not’ understand that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP in general are the most popular choice of leader and party in Scotland?

    How can the likes of Andrew Neil/Marr and all national newspapers and their ilk quote from dodgy polls as recently as last month with the irrefutable evidence of the GE15 and the HE of last year that disproves or at least ‘should’ raise the question about the veracity of the numbers they quoted at the time? As they directly contradict the reality on the ground in Scotland.

    This is Orwellian double think manipulative insane making propaganda in full swing here. Let’s play ‘follow the leader’, they know the psychology of ‘the most popular’ has a ‘meaningful impact’ on people, if ye say it often enough the ‘trend’ will follow? Like sheep to the pen. So it’s working in England?

    It’s clearly not working in Scotland. That’s what these polls really show?

    Ashcroft’s latest poll isnt really aimed at finding out what the public think so much as finding out whether the tactics are working on the public both sides of the border.

  26. Luigi says:

    Maybe I’m just being paranoid, but I get the feeling that they don’t like us very much. 🙂

  27. Cuilean says:

    Another gem the Mail and the others omit; 13% of Scots have never heard of Ruth Davidson and 18% of us have never heard of Kezia Dugdale!

    Maybe they should ‘get back to their day jobs’!

    MSM are now doing to the current SNP FM which they did to the previous SNP FM; vilify and demonise.

    This country’s politics is shaped and moulded by a half dozen newspaper owner billionaires who live abroad and from which all political parties run scared of. What a dystopian reality is this benighted land.

  28. Robert Peffers says:

    Now here’s a thing.

    Scientifically, when considering colours, they are all on a spectrum of primary colours that ranges from black through to white. That range of colours, between the primary colours, is progressive with everything in between a eack primary a shade of other colours.

    Only black & white have no shades. These tow are either black or white or the colour is something else.

    How then can the MSM, either electronic or dead tree, attempt to turn either black or white into anything other than black or white? Fact is they can not – but some people are very gullible and believe anything and if asked why they believe it will say, It must be true I saw it in the paper, heard it on the radio or watched it on TV.

  29. jockmcx says:

    O/T…But having a day off came across this vid,if you have
    the time (it’s 1hr50 mins long)watch it.

    If you don’t have the time save it for later,tis well
    worth the watch.
    Play For Today : Destiny. (David Edgar, 1978)

    A small town shopkeeper is conned into standing for an extreme right-wing party at a bye-election.

    This remarkable play is as relevant now, if not more so, as it ever was…”too true”.

    Lot’s of familiar old faces.
    From a time when the bbc was…different!

  30. Chocolass says:

    But how to get the truth out when there’s no
    outlet for it apart from wings?!
    Most folk are now being bombarded with this awful
    spin and a percentage must sink in subliminally.
    I know talking is the best way to get points across
    but how else?

  31. Vestas says:

    @jockmcx says 1:18 pm :

    “From a time when the bbc was…different!”

    I’m afraid it really wasn’t any different, we just weren’t aware of what it actually was – and is.

    The internet has been a disaster for BritNat propaganda.

    I think the last time anyone believed “Britain” wasn’t a moribund warmongering moneylaunder must have been around 1997. “Cool Britannia”…. makes you want to vomit doesn’t it.?

  32. Proud Cybernat says:

    Purveyors of pish.

  33. K1 says:

    The truth is out! Else the very polls we”re all discussing wouldn’t be directly contradicting their pish?

    If the propaganda was working why aren’t the polls reflecting it? Have you seen the polls for the upcoming Scottish council elections?

    More and more people are not falling for this. They are convincing parts of England because most of these rags are sold in England, that’s their base. Keep taliking to folk, keep sharing this information.

    We’re bypassing them that’s why they hate Wings especially.

  34. galamcennalath says:

    Yerkitbreeks says:

    a supporter suggested I avoid his neighbor with my leaflet

    I’ll be honest, there are some houses I now miss out when leafleting. They will go out of their way to engage in pointless time wasting ‘debate’. Totally unproductive and amounting to – they regurgitate some false news, I give them the true facts, they ignore what I say, they move on to their next nugget of lies.

    No one will convert people like this by countering their beliefs.

    That is not to say they won’t change sides. They need to come to conclusions for themselves in their own time. Personal circumstances, close friends, sources for info they consider neutral, failure by those they trust, being out of step with those close to them … some will see the light, eventually.

  35. Proud Cybernat says:

    I have often wondered this.

    Do these papers merely reflect their audience’s attitudes or do these papers form their attitudes? Do people read these andrex rolls because they print what they want to hear (confirmation bias)? It just seems like a never-ending cycle of idiots following idiots.

    How do you break the cycle? How do you remove the scales from the eyes of such people? Do these people even realise the utter lies these bumsheets peddle? If so, do they care? Are they quite content to wallow in these lies because it suits their world view? Can such a person ever change? If so, what would it take for them to see they are being fed lie after lie? And what owuld it take for them to reject those lies?

  36. Macart says:

    A purely dishonest publication that peddles in hatred and misery.

    Pretty much all you need to know about the Mail really.

  37. Fairliered says:

    Daily Mail rated worst of bad lot of newspapers.

  38. Arbroath1320 says:

    Nothing about the Scottish Daily Mail surprises me. This excuse of a newspaper falls into the same bracket as its owner/Big Brother paper the Daily Mail does … I wouldn’t use it to wipe my earse with!

    That said I do actually “enjoy” watching the disreputable “editor” of the Daily Mail squirm through his anti Scotland hatred every Monday night on SKY’s papers review. Last night was, if anything, a spectacular example of this hatred. Apparently he wasn’t too bothered about the news of women in Scotland being given the new cancer drug to fight Breast cancer but boy does he absolutely HATE with a vengeance the idea that people with AIDS in Scotland are to be given a new anti AIDS drug for free. He was practically foaming at the mouth over this idea, and him being as he admitted to last night, gay himself! 😀

  39. jockmcx says:

    Vestas 1.32pm
    The play should be reshown…do u think they would,today?

  40. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    Do these papers merely reflect their audience’s attitudes or do these papers form their attitudes?

    I too wonder that. Both perhaps, but how much of each, and what is the dominant driver?

    You could say the same of the BBC and other broadcasters. How much is intentional propaganda, and how much is simply them reflecting what they think is mainstream public opinion? (Their target audience being larger than a tabloid’s)

    I believe there is a test coming. At some point very soon Indy will become the majority view. It will be most interesting to find out where and how the ‘new’ established norm is reflected in the media.

    Most will stick to their bias and propaganda. Some, hopefully, will give the majority view a fair hearing.

  41. HandandShrimp says:

    That poll must have stuck in their thrapple. Lord Ashcroft too…not exactly a noted evil cyber-nat.

    It will deflate their balloon a tad in the run up to the council elections. Kezia and Jeremy though…what on earth is going on there. -51% must be some sort of record.

  42. K1 says:

    The only way that cycle breaks is when these rags go out of circulation…remember notw? They are dying proud cybernat, we are all part of making sure of that. I don’t think those who have ingested so much over their lifetime’s really have much of a chance. Speaking from ma own experience with one in the family…’not until released from their cold deid haun’ will they relinquish their papers nor their dreadful attitudes toward their fellow humans as learned through the daily poison of these disgusting papers.

  43. mike d says:

    Cuilean 1.10pm if mother teresa herself had been Scotlands FM, the msm would have vilified,and incited their thick/right wing readership to hatred of her.

  44. K1 says:

    In relation to chicken and egg…no one is born hateful. It’s learned and these papers teach. Throw in a couple of disappointments in life and smidgeon of bitterness and sit someone down wi an express or mail and they’ll have found the perfect companion…a companion that directs yer bile and gives ye someone or something tae blame.

  45. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Vestas: “photoshopped”

    It bloody is, isn’t it? Ha!

    ‘Och no, ah cannae vote for her. Her heid’s too plump.’

  46. heedtracker says:

    One odd feature of UK life, standing queues for the til in stores like Waitrose, behind very well healed shoppers, and there’s the Heil in their baskets. Its hard to not hear Sieg Heilmien Fuhrage too, in these Q’s, as side boobs and ogling little girls in their underpants.

    But this is what the hard core Cons demand, NO change UK ever, Rule Britannia, Heil style pleasant onanist leching too. We’re British!

  47. Dr Jim says:

    What places in the world do the media and government drive into people that foreigners are bad and not to be trusted, where their own neighbours are troublesome or stupid or to be ignored and that their government is always right, and repeat on the hour for 24 hours then reprint in newspapers all over again

    What place in the world is news not reported and actively witheld from the people
    What place misrepresents figures facts and events
    What place threatens its own citizens with retribution and no right to question if they don’t comply and indeed agree with changes that government is going to make whether the people like it or not

    How is the UK different from what the UK tells us North Korea is…..or is it? I don’t even know anymore

  48. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    We’re British!

    Aye, there are a lot of aspects of UKOK which are very unpleasant! The rest of the world sees them, many within simply don’t.

    Nothing is black and white, not all bad, but there are undoubtedly things we should collectively be ashamed of, must BritNats never are,

  49. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    11 April, 2017 at 1:56 pm
    That poll must have stuck in their thrapple. Lord Ashcroft too…not exactly a noted evil cyber-nat.

    He really hates Cameron though. Pays Cameron’s tory party £8 million, for a top gov job, gets knocked back. PigGate vomited into the UK political milieu.

    Hell hath no fury like a billionaire tory tax dodger in Belize not getting an unelected UK gov job. His book a hoot though.

    “He writes: ‘After putting my neck on the line for nearly ten years – both as party treasurer under William Hague and as deputy chairman – and after ploughing some £8million into the party, I regarded this as a declinable offer. It would have been better had Cameron offered me nothing at all.’

    He did a lot with an HND Business Studies too. Just hates taxes and the tories:D

  50. Vestas says:

    @jockmcx 1:53 pm :

    “Vestas 1.32pm
    The play should be reshown…do u think they would,today?”

    I suspect not 🙂

    However they wouldn’t have shown it in the mid 80s either, just like Robin Day wouldn’t be let anywhere near Question Time now.

    What people need to understand is that the BBC has always been the state’s propaganda agency. Reith saw to that.

    There’s some pretence of BBC independence/impartiality but in reality they do whatever they consider necessary to maintain the state. If they don’t (think Kelly/Gilligan/Iraq) then its clear what happens to BBC independence.

    The BBC is impartial only in that it maintains the “British” state – it really doesn’t care too much who’s in charge, only that the state continues.

  51. Vestas says:

    @Reluctant Nationalist 2:05 pm :

    “@ Vestas: “photoshopped”

    It bloody is, isn’t it? Ha!

    ‘Och no, ah cannae vote for her. Her heid’s too plump.”

    Its not so much her face, its the neck that’s wrong to me.

    She has been looking tired lately (not surprised) – but unless she’s been into some serious upper-body gym work I dunno what’s going on with that photo 🙂

  52. Thepnr says:

    So 53% of Scots give Nicola Sturgeon a positive rating, stripping out the don’t knows makes that 56% of Scots who view her positively.

    I think these are great figures, they imply that 56% are already on the side of Independence or that those not quite there yet can be persuaded.

    I just wish more people in Scotland and the UK for that matter could see her speeches, such as those recently in the US. That would add a few more percentage points I’m sure.

  53. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    11 April, 2017 at 2:16 pm
    heedtracker says:

    We’re British!

    It is an odd thing though, seeing wealthy tories with a gutter tab like the Heil under their arm. Makes a lot of money though. I’m not being a prude. All EU countries are far more open about sex in newspapers. Its maybe just that they’re not Heil style fixated on voyeuristic leching, like our ghastly newspapers.

    It used to be the Torygraph, that our upper classes would read for that creepy posh Brit titillation and gratification, all serious court crime reports were loaded with torygraph sex and gore detail. Maybe still are.

    But its not for nothing that a Heil creep like Quentin Letts is never off the BBC politics stuff, Letts is a Ligger Neil fav boy. But then nothing comes close that reprobate Ligger though, nothing. OK maybe Nic Robinson’s an even bigger tory roaster but he’s not into written tory propaganda much these days.

    Julie Burchill in the Graun used to call them girls bike seat sniffers. Every time Ligger’s got a new hair colouring job, that’s all I see, sniff sniff eh Ligger?

  54. Vestas says:

    @K1 says 2:04 pm :

    “In relation to chicken and egg…no one is born hateful. It’s learned and these papers teach. Throw in a couple of disappointments in life and smidgeon of bitterness and sit someone down wi an express or mail and they’ll have found the perfect companion…a companion that directs yer bile and gives ye someone or something tae blame.”

    Do that for 30+ years across all tabloids (England) about how it’s all down to the EU & then colour me surprised that the 35+ agegroup voted leave. Drip drip drip drip – bit by bit it sinks in.

    Unfortunately the DM is even more successful online than paper so it’ll be around for a while 🙁

  55. Weechid says:

    @jockmcx Thanks for that link – some good old plays on there I’d like to watch – some for the first time:-)

  56. K1 says:

    Aye Vestas…but it’s online version is diluted by a million other sites that people can tap intae and the younger generations coming up won’t have been 30+ years conditioned by there only having been hard copies of their shit on the new stands.;-)

  57. Robert Graham says:

    O/T on their website the BBC have the greens manifesto for the upcoming Council elections, I wonder if they will have the brass neck to highlight the Tory one ? , Or just a hate filled bile spewing misinformed propaganda rant , it will be interesting to see what type of spin they put on it , I mean there are only so many times you can polish this Tory Turd to make it acceptable to even the most rabid right wing nut job, possibly they will play safe and just forget to mention it .

  58. Chitterninlicht says:

    These articles are pants but the important point to remember is that most people rate Nicola Sturgeon highly compared to other politicians, despite these articles, so perhaps they are not as effective as they wished they were.

  59. Robert Louis says:


    Hmmm.. when I read the article linked below, I read the headline, and thought, ‘this must be the most tenuous, pathetic argument against the restoration of Scottish independence ever’. I was right.

    Sadly the author continually refers to the SNP Government, instead of Scottish Government, and apparently, it is Nicola Sturgeon and NOT the Scots Parliament that is demanding independence. So very ill informed.

    Warning!!: Article also includes ‘braveheart’ picture.

    I can just see it now, ‘vote ‘NO’ and help the film studio’. Jeezo.

  60. K1 says:

    Also same EU schtick sold in Scotland past 30+ years in Scotland but we voted 62% remain Vestas.

    Are we ‘uniquely’ immune tae propaganda? Cause something doesn’t add up in terms of the ‘concern’ that many have about these rags re independence support. It’s not working in Scotland, nae amount of hand wringing alters that fact.

    Let them stew In their bile those that want tae pretend they only read it fur the fashion (as if). It’s a mind soiler pure and simple. it seems like many in Scotland don’t and haven’t been buying these rags in nearly enough numbers tae produce anything like the effects we see down south.

    Why would that suddenly change? They don’t merit the worry in that regard.

  61. Jack Murphy says:

    Cuilean said at 1:10pm”……MSM are now doing to the current SNP FM which they did to the previous SNP FM; vilify and demonise.
    This country’s politics is shaped and moulded by a half dozen newspaper owner billionaires who live abroad and from which all political parties run scared of.
    What a dystopian reality is this benighted land.”

    I agree,and how’s this for newspaper real facts?

    The Sun/The Sun on Sunday.Owned by Rupert Murdoch,a billionaire who live in the USA.

    The Mail/The Metro.Owned by Baron Rothermere,billionaire who lives in France.

    The Express.Richard Desmond.billionaire and pornographer.

    “…..Over a quarter (27.3 per cent) of the press is owned by Lord Rothermere and 24.9 per cent by Rupert Murdoch – between them these two men have over 50 per cent of the printed press.

    Over three quarters (77.8 per cent) of the press is owned by a handful of billionaires…..”

    Figures and facts courtesy of LeftFootForward June 2013.

  62. call me dave says:


    Thanks for the link. I gave it a go for a taster 10mins.
    I’ll enjoy it all later I’m sure.

    Sir Humphrey Appleby (Nigel Hawthorne) no less. 🙂

  63. Satanic Mechanic says:

    That’s nothing compared to the absolutely demented take the Daily Express has on it. For some reason I can help reading the Express online articles it’s somewhat akin to stopping to watch a traffic accident and watching the victims blaming the cars

  64. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:

    very ill informed


    “The Scottish move is one of several regional efforts to take a slice of the action. A Yorkshire film studio was recently opened at a former airfield …. “

    … this gets right up my nose. It really really annoys me when idiots treat Scotland as a region on a par with Yorkshire! 🙁

    When did you every hear England being described as a region?

  65. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…how to get the truth out when there’s no outlet for it apart from wings?!”

    There are ways and means…

  66. jdman says:

    I was walking my dog in the park when I stood on a daily Mail,
    I had to find some dog shit to wipe it off!

  67. Richardinho says:

    Off topic, but could someone explain to me what Stu’s ‘Bear Patrol’ is?
    I find it amusing but just a bit baffling!

  68. K1 says:

    Oh in terms of unique readership figures online with the 3 big ones in Scotland, the guardian, mail and sun I think. I don’t believe that people are necessarily reading political articles on these digital platforms, the figures are not broken down. But the 4th biggest unique readership figure in Scotland is Wings over Scotland. People are reading a primarily political blog.

    We can’t truly compare like for like in this regard. Wings literally soars above them all when it comes to media analysis of the political reality in Scotland. Ah also often add an extra (uncounted) person to Wings readership numbers because more than one person within a given household will be informed by any given article through word of mouth.

    Ah think we hugely underestimate the reach of Wings. And hugely overestimate the reach of the others. I’m not saying there is not work to be done, I’m saying haven’t we come far…and why should that reverse anytime soon?

    The movement is toward Yes. Of that I’m certain.

  69. Thepnr says:

    Talking of polls, Scot Goes Pop reported on polls asking the Independence question on the 9th, 12th, 14th, 2 on the 15th, and the 19th of March and since then? None.

    Have polling companies stopped asking the question or is it more likely that the result of a poll asking that question is one they do not wish to publish?

    I suspect the latter considering who normally commission polls. I think we’re in the lead now with maybe more than one poll, especially big ones like Ashcroft’s that are carried out on behalf of the political parties.

    Hence the Unionists getting more shouty and frothing at the mouth. NO MORE REFERENDUMS!

  70. heedtracker says:

    Richardinho says:
    11 April, 2017 at 3:12 pm
    Off topic, but could someone explain to me what Stu’s ‘Bear Patrol’ is?
    I find it amusing but just a bit baffling!

    If you spend your work day wading through the open sewer that is the great UKOK BBC led tory media, actually going outside and walking in the sunshine and fresh air, is probably the best way to detox.

  71. Juteman says:

    The raisin this currant crop of wakners get away with it is simply down to the BBC. Without the BBC fertiliser, they would have withered on the vine long ago.

  72. call me dave says:

    The FM’s rating will continue to rise as events unfold in the European Parliament.

    The EU wants Britain to pay a high price for a Brexit transition deal

  73. call me dave says:


    Ha Ha! That’s just grape! 🙂

  74. galamcennalath says:


    Polls. My understanding is if any part of a poll is released, they have to release the full datasets fairly quickly. The alternative is to keep it all quiet.

    Many polls will be for private use and never reach the public. I’m just guessing here, but if a private poll contains answers which support the client’s agenda, they may release.

    So, you ask a pertinent question, why no polls being released? I agree, it may be because they don’t like the answers!

    IMO polls will begin to show a Yes majority at some point. Will pro Unionist clients release, or bury for a while? Rhetorical, really.

  75. Richardinho says:

    ‘If you spend your work day wading through the open sewer that is the great UKOK BBC led tory media, actually going outside and walking in the sunshine and fresh air, is probably the best way to detox.’

    That much I understand: The bear hunting otoh!

  76. galamcennalath says:

    call me dave says:

    EU wants Britain to pay a high price for a Brexit transition deal

    Now that is interesting, strict conditions to get even a transition deal!

    Of the three phased deals …

    Long term trade

    … the last if many years down the line, the transition may be more than the hard right will stomach, and before that the UK has to agree to pay huge divorce reparations and give guarantees about EU citizens!

    This is all likely to end badly … for England,

  77. Richardinho says:

    I gotta give credit to Kez for a fairly good burn of Ruthy today in the Record. If there’s one thing that is responsible for her fall in popularity it’s her pitiful subservience to the London Tory Party.

    U-turn on Brexit and silent on the rape clause, it’s fairly obvious that she is a no more than Downing Street’s voice in the Scottish Parliament. Perish the thought she ever does become First Minister.

  78. Robert Graham says:

    Looks like Wullie has an insider in Police Scotland apparently with a direct link to the BBC on whose website links the closure of control centres to a misinterpretation of the location of an alleged break in at a Tesco store, my my it’s good to see the BBC are on the ball , right up there with current police investigations I truly trust no members of the public have been injured due to this calamity , will questions be asked in parliament about this disgraceful scandal, Dam bloody right there will ,and by who ? yep oor Wullie . I ask the first minister why the police went to Tesco in Great Western road in Glasgow and not Great Western road in Aberdeen ? We on this side demand resignations , Humza Yousaf being the first , and for just being a SNP minister.

  79. manandboy says:

    If we’re serious about The Mail, Express, the Scotsman etc, then we could create a campaign of silent, legal disruption, perhaps like this:-
    1. From now on, once a week, on a different day each week, to be announced in Wings on the Saturday beforehand, and buying as early in the day as possible, we each would buy a copy of the Daily Mail & the Express.

    2.Then, closer to voting day, buy every day.

    Let’s face it, we all feel powerless in the face of the daily onslaught of Unionist lies in the Press. A campaign of disruption as described above, would go some way to changing powerlessness into empowerment.

    At a cost of 50p – £1, its hardly going to break the bank, and it’ll be worth it, even if just to let the Press know we can fight back. We might even find a use for it, like cleaning the windscreen or swatting flies.

    We could start next week in the run up to the Council Elections. If any Wingers have any suggestions, they’d be very much appreciated. Cheers

  80. Proud Cybernat says:


    But surely the retailers will simply increase their order for more of the bumsheets when they see they are selling more? Don’t see how that’ll work.

  81. Proud Cybernat says:

    … of course though, after we bouth the papers we could pack them full of indy leaflets, place information stickers insde on strategic place and then RETURN the paper to the shelves for the store to sell again.

    Ha ha….

  82. sassenach says:

    manandboy @3-47pm

    Maybe it’s just me, but how does your plan of increasing the sales of the Mail , Express etc make a ‘silent protest’? Baffled!

  83. harry mcaye says:

    My Dad used to buy the DM every Wednesday for it’s weekly financial feature. In his latter years he has always voted SNP. He wasn’t a believer in Scottish Independence but I managed to convert him. Sometimes I had to buy it for him and I well remember someone staring at me in Asda as I held a copy at the till. Now it’s me who does the staring -“Why would you…?”

    Incidentally I bought only my second Daily Record since the referendum for him yesterday. His team did rather well at the weekend and I thought he deserved a good read. The National is absolutely dire for football and it must lose them readers. They even missed out a match last midweek – St Johnstone v Hearts. Not covered at all but they did find space for feature son Swansea, Arsenal and bizarrely the Ireland women’s team! I e-mailed them but got no response, as usual.

    Someone on here said recently that a relative bought the DM only for the puzzles and was an SNP voter. I think he also said the relative enjoyed a good moan about the contents of the paper. Folk buy papers for the strangest of reasons, don’t write folk off unless you know for sure that they are diehard unionists.

  84. manandboy says:

    By random selection of a different day each week, the publisher will be baffled, so also the retailer.

  85. Thepnr says:


    I get the idea behind what your suggesting as I’ve heard anecdotal stories of Unionists buying all The National papers in their local shops and dumping them so as no innocent Scot is subject to it’s propaganda.

    However, any effect on the likes of the Mail or Express would likely be minimal if just a small number of us removed them from the shelves which is likely the case.

    Don’t forget a good many papers are returned everyday unsold, we would probably just be buying those that would not be sold anyway.

    My view to beat the lying media, No 1 cancel your TV license and refuse to have their propaganda beamed into your home, save that money and spend it instead on entertainment that is streamed if you must watch something.

    Definitely do not purchase a newspaper that contains no News whatsoever especially about Scottish politics, their opinion of which is made up mainly of lies and Tory/Labour crap.

    Boycott all MSM media in the UK, it is poison.

  86. manandboy says:

    We’ll get nowhere focussing on uncommon exceptions. Express and Mail readers are by and large, not yes voters. Owners certainly not.

  87. manandboy says:

    Accept, if only a small number participated. But with 1.7million yes voters in 2014 and snp membership in excess of 120,000, and heaven knows how many read Wings, I have to believe we can muster more than a few.

    Doing something dispels the effects of doing nothing for the person doing something.

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @Chocolass says: 11 April, 2017 at 1:22 pm:

    “… I know talking is the best way to get points across
    but how else?”

    There is nothing else, Chocolass. We have tried just about everything else over the several decades that I’ve been around the Scottish independence activist scene. Nothing came of any other thing and although we were thin on the ground we just kept on taking to people.

    Now there is the internet and mobile phones and various other devices that can do the internet and we are on the cusp of Scottish independence.

    Every time the Westminster Establishment has knocked us down they told us that independence was dead forever. We didn’t believe them and we got up, dusted ourselves down and kept talking to people.

    It’s been a long time coming but we are going to get there, and every time we get up and carry on we become a bit stringer and more resilient.

    Keep talking , and most Scots are very good at doing just that. Nail just one lie. Beat just one yoons argument in public, and the more rabid that yoon is the better the effect.

    During the last indyref I did something I usually walk away from. I was shopping in a local co-op and was approached by a right raving yoon because of my several YES Badges on my hat.

    This guy began loud and as I fielded his, mainly idiotic yoonerisms, with sensible and very obviously true explanations of why he was wrong he got progressively louder and louder.

    I though to myself, this is getting out of hand and by this time the guy was spraying spittal as he blustered and obviously was way out of his depth.

    So I said, “That’s o/k. friend, you have the right to vote as you wish and so do I. I think everyone listening knows how we both intend to vote. Now please simmer down before you injure yourself”, and walked away from him. He continued shouting after me as I went.

    Just one person spoke to me before I had checked out my purchases and left the shop. A lady said, “He wiz needin telt, By jings ye really telt him”.

    However, around half a dozen others have since told me the exchange in the Co-op had opened their eyes and the fact I remained calm and made good sensible arguments, (remember he had begun an attack on me because of my display of YES badges), had been a telling point.

    I had answered the doubts of those other people by answering the loud-mouth and by nailing his quite obvious lies had answered these other people’s doubts. As I said – I usually just walk away when someone starts getting abusive or starts to shout.

  89. Thepnr says:

    10% of households in Scotland in 2016 do not have a TV licence up from 6% in 2012 which is exactly what England & Wales are still at for non-payers. N. Ireland is at 9% but they too are a special case.

    These are the BBC Trusts own figures, why do you think £30 million is to be spent on a new “Scottish” channel or that they have agreed to spend an additional £90 million on producing programs in Scotland?

    It’s not because they love us, it’s that the non payers have made them sit up and start paying attention. I doubt many will fall for the baubles and mirrors they are handing out.

    I want to see that 10% grow to 20%, not listening to them is what they fear the most. Prove your not listening by refusing to give them any of your hard earned cash. Make them whistle for it!

  90. DerekM says:

    @ manandboy

    It would work if we knew that their owners would not just drop another tax dodged million into them and print more copies.

    These rags are not running on commercial profits in Scotland if they were they would be out of business by now.

  91. Dan Huil says:

    @Thepnr 4:41pm

    Good news. Well said,Thepnr. Let britnats pay for britnat propaganda.

  92. Iain More says:

    Shock! Even the deid think Ruthless doesn’t speak for Scotland.

  93. Iain Carr says:

    Rev Stu’s Bear Patrol: it’s a tongue-in-cheek commentary on how awful a place Bath is to live in. He shows us pictures of lovely river walks and beautiful parkland while warning about the bear menace they conceal.

    You have to understand his sense of humour when reading his tweets.

  94. Walter Scott says:

    Sturgeon only the Best of a bad bunch according to the DM. What does that say about Ruth “Fat Boab No Surrender Ya Bassa” Davidson? tut tut.

  95. Robert Peffers says:

    @Arbroath1320 says: 11 April, 2017 at 1:52 pm:

    ” … boy does he absolutely HATE with a vengeance the idea that people with AIDS in Scotland are to be given a new anti AIDS drug for free. He was practically foaming at the mouth over this idea, and him being as he admitted to last night, gay himself!”

    Aye! Arbroath1320, but that wasn’t because he thought the Scots shouldn’t have the meds. It was because he was jealous because the are to get them and he isn’t.

    He knows what to do about it, though, doesn’t he? We Scots are open for immigrants and we have more than a few retired folks from the three country Kingdom of England who sold up and moved to Scotland and some of them have become SNP members, as we know because we have the English for Indy group.

    As I have been at pains to explain to many Yoons, we don’t blame the people of England for the sins of Westminster Blue, Red and Yellow Tories.

  96. Fran says:

    Tha puir wee souls, its getting harder all the time for them tae skew the data

  97. Gregory Beekman says:

    Now is not the time for sour grapes, not when we have Brexit to deal with.

  98. Thepnr says:

    Mass cancellation of the TV tax is the most effective, democratic and non violent means of making your voice heard against the constant anti Independence BBC propaganda.

    Don’t just think about, just do it!

    I know it’s hard to cut the cord just as it was for me, but once done it’s a revelation and I just wish I’d did it sooner.

    Want to send a message to the BBC, MSM and Westminster? Then cancel your TV license. It’s easy and anyway the programs on Netflix or Amazon are better.

    No NEWS is good NEWS at least for your blood pressure and you can get all the news you could ever need online.

  99. Vestas says:

    @manandboy 4:36 pm :

    “Doing something dispels the effects of doing nothing for the person doing something.”

    In this case doing nothing is better.

    All your suggestion is going to do is increase the tabloids revenue.

    If the supermarket/newsagent sells out of tabloids every week they’ll just increase their order.

    Supply & demand mate 🙂

    NB – The National is not a tabloid although it may do better in that format IMHO.

  100. Chick McGregor says:


    Police Scotland have been sent an anonymous message saying the door of an anti Scottish political party HQ has been kicked in. They have sent units to STory, SLab and SLibDem HQs. 🙂

  101. Robert Graham says:

    OK who paid for the SLAB election broadcast on STV ? well it certainly wasnt the bloody membership , together we are stronger are they taking the pish ?

  102. call me dave says:

    No answers to the H&Islands renewable problems from Business Sec of State for Industrial Strategy for the UK Greg Clark when questioned by shortbread’s Douglas Fraser about their meeting today.

    Nothing on assisting the islands with their energy plans or
    trying to resolve the connection prices to the grid going Darn Sarf.

    Douglas of course didn’t press him too much. 🙁 Shame.

    I suppose we’ll get Mr Wheelhouse the Scottish minister for Business and Energy side of the discussion in a minute…Oh wait!

    Still waiting…..!

  103. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for October 2013 now over on O/T.

  104. Lenny Hartley says:

    “Even thoughtful Englishmen are now seeing that Westminster Government is inept, spineless,brutal and fatally besmirched with nepotism and personal moral rottenness and scandal”

    Is that Westminster today? No it’s from the front page of Forward Scotland Oct 1963.

    A neighbour was cleaning out the loft and found it.

  105. Liam says:

    Re Photoshoppery of the NS pic.

    I know Google isn’t infallible but I just downloaded the Daily Mail image posted in the article, cropped it to just leave the dubious image of NS and did a Google Image search looking for matches.

    NO results found.

    Sorry if this stupidly long URL doesn’t work:

  106. Richardinho says:

    I think a much more significant protest than not paying your t.v. license is not watching BBC programmes on it.

  107. Thepnr says:


    You can watch all the rest totally free and legally on catch up if your prepared to wait an hour or two other than the BBC.

    Wonder why they changed that law too. Can pay, won’t pay!

    I see absolutely no point in encouraging them and paying for lies.

  108. Lenny Hartley says:

    Liam see Robbie the Picts godson Leonardo is shown as a possible match 🙂

  109. Richardinho says:

    I think if you don’t pay the license but still watch BBC programmes then it’s not really much of a protest. They want money for sure, but the main purpose of the BBC is to achieve influence and they get that from paying and non-paying viewers alike.

  110. Thepnr says:


    Sorry but your wrong, it’s illegal to watch BBC iplayer now without a license and only the BBC. Personally I watch NONE of the mainstream TV.

    It’s mainly drivel anyway so I’m not missing much. Did you read what I actually posted last time? Not sure that you did.

  111. starlaw says:

    Well done RT for telling us that Scotland would be welcomed in the EU and no problems with Spain.
    Perhaps RT should get my tv License money.

  112. Richardinho says:

    @Thepnr ..erm I never said it was legal to watch the Iplayer. Not sure what you’re on about.

    Just to clarify, the only point that I am making is that if you want to protest the BBC, then don’t watch the BBC. Not paying the license but still watching BBC content is no protest at all.

    I hope that’s clear.

  113. boris says:

    Local Elections not that far off: Series of posts alerting constituency to the failures of those who promised so much in return for their vote.


  114. arthur thomson says:

    Nobody in their right mind imagined that Davidson was more popular than the FM – not even the daft yoons. The poll just proves the point and proves that the yoons’ tsunami of lies is ineffectual.

    Touching that they would wish to confirm what we knew. Sometimes we just have to be a little grateful to them for their foolishness.

    The media bias is an affront to democracy but it really isn’t effective against us?

  115. Thepnr says:


    Yes it’s perfectly clear, though you are implying that non payers such as myself break the law by watching the BBC with your wee dig are you not?

    How do you know if any non payers at all are watching the BBC? Do you have a detector van, if so lend it to the BBC they need it urgently.

  116. Al Dossary says:


    If you feel the need to watch BBC, there are options mostly around streaming, IPTV etc. Does watching a re-stream constitute watching a live broadcast – good question. Who knows, but so far as I know there is no law in the UK against streaming copyrighted material provided you do not download it.

    My wife cancelled ours a few months ago – only our (grown up) daughter and dog left in Lanarkshire at present. Sky is gone, and she gets her fix through Netflix and Kodi. Last time I checked Eastenders they had something like 30+ “Seasons” availabe to stream.

    The BBC have sent a few letters out, but no visit as yet. I just hope to hell that it comes when I am home in June. Otherwise unless they happen to call after 8pm when she has finished work it is extremely unlikely they will find anyone home other than an affable little Staffordshire Bull.

  117. Richardinho says:


    Good grief, is that what you’re getting at – you think I’m making a dig at you?
    I didn’t even mention your name in my first post. It’s a general criticism that anyone who doesn’t pay their license but still watches BBC content isn’t being principled, they’re just being cheap. If that applies to you and you wants to get pissy about it, so be it.

  118. Thepnr says:


    Good grief indeed LOL. Bye Richardinho.

  119. TJenny says:

    Richardino – re Strolling with Stu ‘Bear Patrol’ – Stu started this, during periods of good weather and slow politics, by tweeting pics of how gorgeous Bath and surrounds are and folk tweeted it looked so beautiful they wanted to go there. He then issued the warning that it looked beautiful but ‘beware there be bears’. Ergo, it became Bear Patrol.

    A bit like, if Stu was still in Scotand, he’d have said, ‘It looks beautiful but beware the wild haggis’.

    It’s, I think, an allegory for Scottish Indy, whereby the truth is a beautiful and worthwhile state, but the opposition scream beware the bears, wild haggis and even, GULP, alien invasion.

    Anyway, that’s my take on it.

  120. Richardinho says:


    Thanks, I figured something like that. I do appreciate Stu’s off topic stuff!

  121. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    I cancelled my TV licence on 19th September 2014, for obvious reasons. Since then, when at home, I haven’t watched any live TV from BBC/ITV/Channel4 etc., and don’t use the iPlayer or any other form of catch-up.
    I don’t think I’ve missed anything.
    Since then, another UK-wide reason that has emerged for cancelling the TV licence is to avoid funding hate promotion e.g. Nigel Farage on BBCQT 40+ times.

  122. Shinty says:

    Liam – Sorry if this stupidly long URL doesn’t work:

    The short version: give her a neck like Mike Tyson, smudge the eye makeup, plenty of bags under the eyes, big emphasis on a line down one side of her mouth oh and better add in loads of shadows.

    Oh and I’ve only just noticed, something about the jacket’s not quite right. Right and left side seem to have 2 different ‘tweeds’. Photo shopped with a capital ‘FY’ no doubt about it.

  123. Thepnr says:

    Regarding polls, I’ve always thought we should do our own all it needs is 100 wings readers getting ten opinions each on a Saturday afternoon standing outside Boots.

    OK it won’t be scientific if we did it that way but I’ll bet there is a good way of making it very scientific and we could collect 100 votes each and garner 10,000 opinions if we wanted.

    Just a thought.

  124. caz m says:

    Thepnr 9.35pm

    RE: Do our own Poll.

    Am up for that. Great idea.

    Just need somebody to organise it.

    Ronnie Anderson. Simples!!!

  125. galamcennalath says:

    Simple question … is there anyone on this planet, beyond actual BritNat Greater Englanders, who wouldn’t relish the idea of the UK being dissolved and broken up?

  126. Shinty says:

    Thepnr – I’ve often thought about that too – set up the questions etc. and count me in.

  127. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    My take on today’s events is that the rest of Europe recognise a completely dishonest and disgraceful US and poodle UK plot on Syria.

  128. Robert Louis says:

    Wow, Tomorrow’s National front page doesn’t hold back.

    THAT is the REAL TORY Ruth Davidson, for all to see. I actually find it hard to believe that ANY woman (especially) would find the rape clause acceptable. It is utterly despicable on every level.

  129. Liam says:

    Shinty said:

    Oh and I’ve only just noticed, something about the jacket’s not quite right. Right and left side seem to have 2 different ‘tweeds’. Photo shopped with a capital ‘FY’ no doubt about it.

    For comparison here is the only other pic I could find of her in that jacket and scarf:

  130. Scott says:

    Here’s some good news – Murdoch’s Australian papers are in trouble:

    Are any of his Scottish titles profitable?

  131. Robert Peffers says:

    @starlaw says: 11 April, 2017 at 7:44 pm:

    “Well done RT for telling us that Scotland would be welcomed in the EU and no problems with Spain.
    Perhaps RT should get my tv License money.”

    Sorry to tell you this, starlaw, but it doesn’t work like that. The BBC do not directly get the licence money.

    The BBC only collect a fee for the viewers to watch live TV from any broadcaster. The BBC then turn that fee over to the Treasury and issue a licence to the viewer that gives them Her Majesty’s permission, (via Her Majesty’s Westminster Government), to view Broadcast TV from any broadcaster source.

    The BBC turn licence fee money over to Her Majesty’s Treasury, (run by Her Majesty’s Westminster Government).

    Then Her Majesty’s Government makes an annual grant to the BBC for the BBC’sservices, not just TV, that the BBC carry out for Her Majesty’s Westminster Government.

    BTW: The people who keep constantly badgering, and threatening with legal action, those who live at any address they don’t have a record of holding a TV licence are breaking the law of Scotland.

    They are illegally implying they are, “Officers”, of the law and thus implying they have, “official”, legal power to carry out, “official”, legal investigations against, “The Occupiers”, of any residencies that they have no record of having a TV licence.

    These people are NOT the BBC as the BBC has contracted them, much like Debt Collectors, to collect outstanding licence fee money.

    These debt Collectors do not even know who lives at these addresses unless, “The Occupier”, is daft enough to tell them.

    Here’s the truth – The debt collectors have no legal power and belong to no legal law enforcement, “force”.

    The Occupier, or even the legal owner, has no legal duty to tell the BBC anything. The reason the letters are addressed to, “The Occupier”, is because they do not know who, “The Occupier”, is.

    Their only legal right in Scotland is to go to the main entrance to a residence in order to contact, “The Occupier”, and they break the law of privacy if they do anything other than go, without perving through windows, to the main enreance.

    If, for example, you have a garden and post a notice like, for example, “No Cold Callers”, or, “No hawkers”, they break the law by coming through the gate.

    They can legally get a search warrant but to do so they either need to produce some evidence of criminal activity, and/or a name to give to a person legally empowered to issue a search warrant.

    Even if they get a search warrant they cannot use it unless they have a person legally entitled to search. That is a police Officer or a Bailiff.

    It is illegal in Scotland to demand money with threats and there is precedent that threatening legal action on an innocent person is, “coercion”, (that’s Blacklmail in English law).

    The BBC do what they are told by Westminster no matter which party is in power because they do not get the Licence money but rely upon Westminster deciding what Westminster is going to grant them annually.

    The really are the bought and paid for propaganda Broadcasters of the Government and do what their paymasters tell them to do.

    So here’s a few hints for you. If they turn up and attempt to browbeat you, stop them in their tracks and inform them that, unless they have a Search Warrant and a legally empowered person to enforce it, then you, not they, will conduct the proceedings.

    Then demand they name of which, “Occupier”, they wish to contact. If they cannot do so tell them to leave or you will call the police. In any case you have no legal duty to tell them if you watch or don’t watch live TV. It is not a crime to have a YV set you use for other things – like as a computer or games console monitor.

    Todays TVs are smart TVs and can connect to the internet and stream video and audio. They can directly receive Netflics, Google, and other search engines and even facebook and other such services.

    I personally have been ignoring them for over six years after they began to badger me again around two years after I informed them online I did not watch live TV and did not want a licence to do so. They don’t want you to tell them no just once but leave it a while then demand you tell them again. I have a very thick sheaf of such threatening demand letters that I will seek legal action against if they ever do turn up at my door. I do always have both a video and stills camera handy and an installed CCTV camera.

  132. proud nat says:


    Good idea about the Poll.

  133. Liz Rannoch says:

    Re photogate

    I also checked the photo out and found this from Getty Images:

    Page 8 – the one at the bottom is the nearest I could find and seems to be from when ‘Scotland’s Place In Europe’ was launched in Dec.

    Hope the http bit is OK – no wanting hammers – couldn’t copy without the bad bit!

  134. heedtracker says:

    Are any of his Scottish titles profitable?

    Very, they’ve kept tories in power since Thatcher, who gave Murdoch a pay no UK tax break, for life, and The Times, SKY…

    So its all about panning back, to see just how much money guys like Murdoch can make, in a lifetime, that seems to go on forever too.

    I really want piss on Rupert’s grave, one day:D

    Thatch escaped that fate.

  135. heedtracker says:

    I really want TO piss on Rupert’s grave, one day.

    Rupert’s permanent rest will probably become the biggest urinal in the world. But then they said that about Snatcher Thatcher too.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    @Liam says: 11 April, 2017 at 10:56 pm:

    Thanks Liz,
    The picture (I think) you meant without all the scrolling:

    Aye! Liam, you beat me to it. I had just copied both pictures of the FM.

    Cut and pasted the head and shoulders from the full length longshot version and then cut & pasted the photoshopped version into a same, side by side, picture and sized them to the same identical size.

    It has been altered, but not a lot. What makes it seem much worse is that they have cutaway a small part of a longshot and blown it up as a close up.

    It is an old trick, well known to yield unflattering results, but they then do seem to have attempted to photo-shop it to make it look even worse.

  137. Famous15 says:

    Forgot to mention earlier the appearance of Norman Lamont,former Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer,in todays Metro saying Shetland would vote to remain in the UK if Scotland won independence. There was me thinking he had gone to a better place than Maggies Cabinet.

    The Tories and they ither Tories the Lib Dems keep trotting this out but what they do not say is that they are presuming the views of the folk and also the big thing spoiling there fear tactic is that even in the unlikely event of the Shetlanders not following Scotland into freedom that in International Law that Scotland would lose very litttle oil wise due to the concept of “enclave” in deciding national sea boundaries.

    The technical term for the views expressed by Lamont is in international parlance “merde”

  138. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Tomorrow’s National front page:

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    Anyway, if the Scottish electorate had wanted a pin-up girl figure or a fashion model figure we would have held a beauty contest and elected the winner.

    We wanted the very best political figure we could get and that’s what we got for our votes. The fact she isn’t a bad looker and is a good fashion figure is a bonus but is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

    When did the rules for electing politicians change to say they had to by good looking? If that were always the criterion then a great many historic facts would be very different today.

  140. Eppy says:

    Here is a wee GIF showing the transition from a stock photo to the one shown in the mail. Looks like some photo-shop might have been involved.

  141. Juan P says:

    @robert peffers

    Your guidance in respect of tv licence enforcement isn’t entirely correct.

    Enforcement officers are perfectly entitled to approach and chap your door even if you have signs up saying no cold callers or hawkers.

    As you note though you’re under no obligation to let them into your home if they do so and they can’t enter uninvited without a warrant.

  142. K1 says:

    So K**** H**** has crapped it and backed out the John Beattie slot wherein he was going to get his arse kicked by Richard Murphy!

    Just watching Rev’s twitter feed, apparently he told them that he could move his board meeting but the BBC replied they had already booked someone in his place. As Rev asks ‘what in 8 seconds?’.

    Would love to have this verified from Beattie? Any twitterers ask him either tonight or the morra would you?

  143. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Liam.

    When you have an unwieldy url, use ‘tinyurl’. Go to:-

    In the box at upper right, where it says, “Enter a long URL to make tiny:”, paste in your long url, then click on the “Make tinyURL” button.

    The page will refresh and offer you a short url which leads to the original url. You then click on “Copy to clipboard”, then paste the wee url wherever you would have posted the long one. NOTE: this is not ‘archiving’ anything – it only creates a short url leading to the original web page.

    Entering your long original on tinyURL, you end up with this:-

    Click on that link to prove it works!

  144. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Tomorrows National front page is a cracker and on an issue that can reverse any growth of Tory support in Scotland (if such actually exists)

  145. Dr Jim says:

    Momma always told me handsome is as handsome does

    That makes Nicola Sturgeon beautiful

    And that’s all I have to say about that!

    Forest might’ve said that to my Momma!

  146. crazycat says:


    (All my earlier attempts to post yesterday and today have failed to appear.)

  147. crazycat says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill

    Yesterday I tried (twice) to respond to you on the previous thread, but my posts did not appear. Now I keep being told it’s a duplicate comment even though I alter bits to make it not so.

    You had asked whether there might be prosecutions of hitherto unreported rapists.

    In Northern Ireland, for obvious reasons, it is an offence not to report a serious crime. I recently read somewhere (maybe The Guardian) that the rape clause might lay open to prosecution not only some women applying for benefits, but also the medical/DWP personnel with whom they were interacting.

    The whole thing’s a disgrace.

    (Now to try hitting “submit”! No – try a different browser.)

  148. Meg merrilees says:


    I read this letter last week in the National. However, I’m not sure the facts are the right way round.

    In his letter, the writer states that the Treaty of Union is flawed as it was never properly ratified. He also states that the Scottish parliament was dissolved and the English parliament wasn’t.

    Isn’t that the wrong way round?

    My understanding is that the English Parliament was dissolved but the Scottish Parliamnet was not, hence Winnie Ewing could announce that this Scottish Pariament, adjourned in May 1707, “is hereby reconvened”.

    Robert Peffers, can you please verify the correct version? and possibly even write to the National to correct them if needed.

    Great front page tomorrow.
    Must make sure the National is clearly on view in all local supermarkets tomorrow.

  149. jockmcx says:

    I am taking the the liberty of reposting this link from
    earlier today.
    I hope it disturbs you as much as the young conservative
    in the film.

    “When you can take the pebble from my hand it will be time
    for you to leave!”

    If you voted no in indy ref 1…”it’s time for us to

    O/T…But having a day off came across this vid,if you have
    the time (it’s 1hr50 mins long)watch it.

    If you don’t have the time save it for later,tis well
    worth the watch.
    Play For Today : Destiny. (David Edgar, 1978)

    A small town shopkeeper is conned into standing for an extreme right-wing party at a bye-election.

    This remarkable play is as relevant now, if not more so, as it ever was…”too true”.

  150. Still Positive says:

    Spent a lot of time over the last few days on FB page ‘Over 60’s for Scottish Independence’. Very lively debates and a vision for an independent Scotland. Nearly 2000 members too.

    There is a wealth of info on that page which we must harness.

  151. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ thepnr

    You’ve been giving me goosebumps re: the TV license. Well said.

  152. defo says:

    Sour grapes ?
    Soor plooms more like.
    Ask the pet shop boy, he’s had his felt.
    At least he has the common sense to haud wheesht this time, rather than have it confirmed to all that he is a blowhard toom tabard.

    Maybe someone could put a credit-ability graphy thing together…

    re the Mail etc, been having loads of success by simply, and at every opportunity, turning the top copy over to the sports.
    It’s amazing to often find how, even half a day later it’s still like that!
    Every little helps.

  153. Croompenstein says:

    Oh Lordy kevverage has shat his pants at the thought of having to debate Prof Murphy… Ha ha ha.

  154. Hamish100 says:

    Are you listening tiny Scotland! BBC shortbread is telling us we should learn from big grown up Westminster on how to run a referendum.

    Surely it was Westminster treasury making up stories , Bank of England, BBC state broadcaster during both referendums that was the issue.

    Baaaaaaaaaad Scotland. No Referendum for you.
    No Purduh for BBC. We have strict guidelines says the broadcaster. SNP wallah agrees.!, Whit! – Ronnie Cowan MP prepare before going near a radio.

  155. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I somehow suspect their in-bred aversion to the colour prevents the slobbering Yoons from the orange-tinted areas of this fair land from typing their emails to The Scotsman in green ink; but the green-ink beliefs of “Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells” apply just as readily to “Disgusted of Morningside”.

    There are some belters today, below the story which has some bookies lacing odds of 6-1 on Ruth the Mooth being the next First Minister, probably after 2021.

    Aye Right.

    I dare say some time in the future of a free, independent Scotland, there will be a conservative FM. At some point a right-of-centre party may become popular enough to gain a mandate in an independent Scotland.

    But, that party will not be led by Ruth the Mooth, or any other London-controlled “Quizmaster”, but, by a Scot, who puts Scotland first and persuades enough fellow Scots to give a more right-wing agenda a chance.

    In any case, once Scotland siezes its independence, Ruth will be finished – England will not offer her a safe haven, because, she will be blamed for England “losing” Scotland.

    She is, politically, a dead woman walking.

  156. Ken500 says:

    Just bring in FPTP. Get rid of the losers. A refreshing clear out of the destructive time and money wasters It just might, just might herald in a credible opposition. The opposition will have to get smarter and stop their lying, destructive ways. Or not be elected or get into Office. At present they just return again, and again without censor or responsibility. To blantantly and corruptly destroy the local and national economy and then blame others. The despicable losers. There are no consquences with PR. The 3rd reject losers just keep coming back.

    Now the opposition lying joke ‘manifestos’ No worth the paper they are written. The talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Do nit practise what they preach. The non Green Party lying losers, as they back up the devious unionists in every unpopular decision and thwart Democracy. The Tory/Labour/LibDem blantant fibs. They are a dangerous disgrace.

    The Tory/Unionists the only thing that outweighs their wickness is their greed. Now taking away mobility access from the disabled. The Tories are rotten to the core. These ignorant heartless incompetents. They do not care at all. Killing vulnerable people to illegally embezzle £Trns of public money. They committed electoral crime in 31 constituencies in the UK to swing an election.

    Why have they not been charged? They just get away with criminal activity. The majority of the electorate can’t stand the sight of them. Spending £Billions on irresponsible illegal destructive monstrosities projects of no value. Starving children and the vulnerable to death. Hinkley by the sea, HS2, Heathrow and Trident. All illegal disasters waiting to happen. There are more credible cheaper alternatives which would also provide the provision for vulnerable people.

    Apologies to Renee Slater. (Green candidate – that might be worth a punt). Extra donation made to the Food Bank. That stinking, sinking Herald defaming people. Going out of business. Graeme Smith, the editor appealing for donations, To tell a load of lies. Nae chance. Donations are all going to the Food bank. The Unionists have created.,Aberdeen City £1.2Billion in debt. Cutting essential services. Thank’s to a Labour/Unionists/Green illegal conspiracy. Doing the opposite of what the majority of the electorate wanted. For Office and remuneration.

    Folk were protesting in the street at the Town House to no avail. So much for local democracy, The total and utter shambles and mess that has been made. Getting the City into £Billion of illegal debt. The ultimate betrayal of local democracy. Bring in FPTP to stop this manipulation of the electorate which contaminates any sense of democracy. A political system which is a travesty of justice.

  157. Ken500 says:

    Bank of England was manipulating Libor. Illegally fixing it. Mervyn King, (Sir) Jeremy Haywood, Alistair Darling were in on it. The Bankers were lying to Parliament. The libor rate affects the inter bank lending interest rate – worldwide. People lost their homes and businesses because of the illegal manipulation.. Goodwin is going to face a Parliamentary committee. Will they nail him? Probably not. The loser wins.

    The Westminster unionist crooks are at it again. Illegal manipulation. Trying to ensure in the event of a Referendum which goes against them they do not have to resign. Aye right.

    Labour/Unionists majority running ECC, do not let Older citizens use their (bus) travel passes on the Trams. Deprive them of their rights. Treating them as 2nd class citizens. Running ubdercapacity. So much for Labour supporting bus passes. The wealthiest City in Scotland has subsidised transport. Ultimately paid by the majority, who cannot get a bus. Poorer local, rural services. By LibDem funding multimillionaire, monopoly, illegal practices bus companies. They should put back profits into rural areas. Greed and manipulation comes before care and consideration.

  158. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I have only just got notification of the eight candidates standing for the four seats in my local council ward in East Ayrshire.

    Last time round, this ward elected three Labour and one SNP councillors. This time, two of the long-serving Labour councillors are standing down. One of them was a good guy, who had served us well over more than 30-years, the other was a total wank.

    The third Labour councillor is standing again. He’s a High Heid Yin in the Orange Lodge, the Royal Black Perceptory and the Masons; a Rangers season ticket holder and he was in my class at primary. He’s as thick as shite in the neck of a bottle as they say down here. No way will I be voting for him.

    So, I go SNP one and two, Green third and, having discarded the incumbent Labour councillor, who do I give my fourth vote to?

    I am seriously looking at voting Tory, because of the possible four candidates, the Tory, a local farmer who actually lives in my village, does, I think, offer this village its best shot at representation.

    He’s our man, all the rest are from “Sodom”, the bigger village just down the road with whom we are twinned in this ward. So, maybe just enough of us will vote for the Tory because, we reckon he’s the best man to represent us.

    Problems, problems.

  159. Breeks says:

    Pro unionist parties furious about attacks on their Scottishness are they?

    Still have a chuckle claiming Scotland was extinguished by the 1707 Union? Or accepting it was a bipartite union between two countries?

    If it ceased to exist as the like’s of Mundell claim, then they have no Scotland or claim on Scottishness. Suck it up Mundell, you are a North Briton by your own asinine definition.

  160. Luigi says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    12 April, 2017 at 8:26 am

    If you rank everyone on the list, and put the candidate you least want to be elected right at the bottom, then your vote will continue to work against him right to the end.

    Putting the dope at the bottom of the list really does help, by favouring all the other candidates against him.

  161. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Since I turned 70 in February, my annoying student grandson and my somewhat younger girl friend have both taken to calling me: “Auld Yin”, consequently, perhaps I am becoming paranoid.

    But, can someone tell me: ours is a council ward wherein we have to elect four concillors, from a field of eight.

    When I go into that voting booth – do I simply pick the four I want and rank them – one, two, three and four, OR do I continue and rank the other four – five, six, seven and eight.

    I always understood, I stopped at four, and ignored the other four candidates; now, I am a wee bit confused. HELP!!!

  162. katherine hamilton says:

    Read WGD this morning. Gives a good example of how it works.

  163. galamcennalath says:

    On the topic of STV WGD does a good overview and simple example.

    Vote Till You Boak … means putting the Tory last to give them the least chance of being elected.

    As WGD says, the Tories are advising their supporters to rank all, with SNP last. We must do the same back to remove every advantage.

  164. mr thms says:

    You rank them in order of preference. With me the Conservative candidate will be ranked last. Since the Tories are saying being ranked last will count as a vote against a referendum that will be the box I leave blank

  165. Fairliered says:


    Scot Goes Pop and Wee Ginger Dug have covered the reasons for voting all the way down the ballot paper, and the reasons for always placing Tories last. It is well worth reading their blogs, as they have explained it far better than I can.

    For the first time ever, I will not be placing wee Alex Gallagher last – but only because he is not a Tory.

    Remember, the tories are fighting the election on a platform of no second referendum, and are ignoring the local issues that local councillors are elected to deal with.

    Remember – vote till you boak.

  166. galamcennalath says:

    I see a new trick the msm are using.

    Take a topic. For several years they have been consistently, and in coordination, telling lies. Then the truth becomes established and the lie is no longer sustainable. How do the back track and admit they were lying?

    They don’t? They spin a new lie saying there has been a turn around. This allows them to now report the truth, but stick by the myth that their previous lies were true at the time.


    The EU won’t take Scotland and/or we’ll be at the back of a queue. But now the EU have changed their minds.

    Ruth was more popular than Nicola. But now popularity has swung to Nicola.

    EU negotiations. They spun months of stuff which was the opposite of what the EU was hinting. But now the EU is clear, they spin than the EU has U turned.

  167. Flower of Scotland says:

    If anyone is interested, Richard Murphy and Kevin Hague are on the John Beattie show on the BBC radio in Scotland show at 12.30pm.

    It should be very interesting as they will be discussing GERS.

    Hope Richard Murphy gets a chance to speak!

  168. geeo says:

    Having read the weegingerdug article on tactical voting, what struck me is, in his example, he illustrated how in a 3 candidate race for 2 seats, all tactical voting (by ranking all candidates) did, was decide which indy hating unionist got elected.

    As we know, ALL unionists WILL join forces, so i fail to see what difference it makes.

    Whats the point of having a labour candidate elected instead of a Tory, when their very first action will be to find a tory to join forces with ?

  169. Ken500 says:

    Tory/Labour/Libdem/Greens are as bad. They are all as bad as each other and gang up under PR to keep the SNP (most popular) out. Ist Choice preferences are put in the bin. To allow the 3rd rate troughers in. An abomination of Democracy. Change to FPTP. To get any chance of Democracy. There might even emerge a credible opposition. Instead of the 3rd Unionist/NonGreens liars mucking up the economy and society with impunity. Never being held to account.

  170. ScotsRenewables says:

    Off topic – Richard Murphy is debating the inappropriateness of GERS on Radio Shortbread at 12.30 today.

    Article here:

  171. Robert Peffers says:

    Meg merrilees says:
    12 April, 2017 at 1:00 am

    “I read this letter last week in the National. However, I’m not sure the facts are the right way round.”

    You are correct. The person is a bit mixed up between the Treaty of Union and the two separate Acts of Union.

    The Treaty is an agreement between the two independent Kingdoms. As it involved two independent Kingdoms the only way to, “Ratify”, it was for each, still independent, Kingdom’s Parliament to pass separate Acts Of Parliament to implement it.

    So when the Parliament of the English Kingdom wound itself up after passing their independent ACT of the Parliament of England they were ratifying the TREATY of Union.

    In Scotland the parliament did the same by Passing the ACT of Union but the people started to riot in the streets and the Parliamentarians were running and hiding for their lives and although they had passed the Scottish Act of Union they never legally dissolved the old Scottish Parliament which was thus legally, “Prorogued”, (put into recess).

    So it could be down to a court battle to find out if Winnie Ewing’s reconvening is, or is not, legal.

    I do not know about other people but I would never trust any kind of Westminster instigated, “Supreme Court”, as being an unbiased legal entity most certainly in favour of Westminster, a.k.a. The de facto country of England Parliament that has split the bipartite United Kingdom into a quadratic disunited setup and claims the former United Kingdom is now the Kingdom of England renamed as the United Kingdom.

    The facts are all there and the Westminster claims are the proof that the situation is exactly as I have just described it.

    The country of England has taken over the true United Kingdom, It calls itself the United Kingdom and treats their only legal kingdom partner as an English Dominion like the two English dominions of Wales & N. Ireland that came into the United Kingdom as English Dominions.

    Any unbiased international court could not fail to rule that those facts are indeed true.

  172. DerekM says:

    I really wish folks would stop telling people from other wards how to vote.

    Each ward will be different there is not a one way fits all,and as for this scare story but the tories will claim a rise in their vote is for no referendum.

    You do know that there will be a rise regardless of what you do,this is what the tories are playing on,they already know they will get a rise from the ultra yoon vote

    What you think the tories do not know this or that they hope we forget what stage 3 of the plan was about.

    The tories can not win councils on their own,they are not the threat the slabbers are we must reduce their numbers.

    By doing so the tories get left stranded without a coalition partner and they can moan about no referendum all they want it is a council election not a referendum on having a referendum.

    Yes they will use this along side their once in generation bullshit,did that stop us hmmm?

  173. galamcennalath says:

    Hootsmon …

    “Pro-Union parties furious at SNP ‘insult’ to Scottishness “

    “Frank Ross, the SNP’s group leader ….. stated: “The Scottish Conservative and Unionist, Scottish Labour and Scottish Liberal Democrats all have one thing in common. None of these organisations actually exist – are you surprised? These names on leaflets and on the ballot papers you are asked to mark with your democratic preferences, are descriptions which have been registered purely for use at elections. That is, they are brands.”

    But the claims prompted a furious response from the pro-union parties. “

    Why any outrage? The truth is there are no ‘Scottish’ Unionist parties, none, nada. There are only branches of the London parties.

    Truth is, they are afraid every voter comes to realise that!

  174. heedtracker says:


    BBC r4 vote Tory Today show, Nic Robinson’s, neo fascism with a wheeze, private tory attack propaganda network, had long thing this morn with beeb gimps out and about Knightsbridge, pointing out all the fine houses of London’s mega expensive westend, that are all owned by evil Russians. A lovely walk up and down the streets, as beeb gimp explains to beeb gimp, which evil Russian billionaire owns what house.

    Would a beeb reprobate like wheezy old Nic, order this kind of BBC r4 news investigation into which City spiv owns what London West end house?


  175. galamcennalath says:

    geeo says:

    Whats the point of having a labour candidate elected instead of a Tory … ?

    Think of it this way, its like the difference between having to stand on sheep shite or dog shite. You’d prefer to stand on neither, however if it has to be one (elected), go for the sheep. 🙂

  176. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    The National front pages twitter.

  177. Meg merrilees says:

    Hamish @7.16

    I heard that report too..
    Further investigation of the BBC website today has the following article.

    I read the article and it occurred to me that what they are doing is actually telling us how they will ‘attempt’ to stitch up Indy ref 2 by forming this new cyber protection unit…
    It will be set up so they can falsify information/votes etc without anyone becoming aware of it.
    A bit like putting all the diamonds in a strongroom but with the burglar already in there with the key? Or am I being paranoid?

    “The committee called on the government to set up a new Cyber Security Centre to monitor and contain potential attacks on UK elections and referendums – particularly foreign attempts to influence public opinion and disrupt the democratic process.
    “The US and UK understanding of ‘cyber’ is predominantly technical and computer-network based,” said the report.
    “For example, Russia and China use a cognitive approach based on understanding of mass psychology and of how to exploit individuals.
    “The implications of this different understanding of cyber-attack, as purely technical or as reaching beyond the digital to influence public opinion, for the interference in elections and referendums are clear,” the report added.”

  178. cearc says:


    Thanks for that. Good play.

  179. Dr Jim says:

    Try thinking of it as voting against the Tories when you put them last

    It’s a statement of dislike not a vote for

  180. @galamcennalath

    Councillor Frank Ross has only told the truth,

    the unionist parties in Scotland have absolutely no autonomy from their UK bosses,

    they are using the epithet Scotland/Scottish as a contrivance to try to mislead the citizens of Scotland into thinking they put Scotland`s best interests before their obedience to their UK masters,

    a bit like BBC Scotland or The Scotsman or Scottish Daily Mail/Express/Times/Sun.


  181. Calum McKay says:

    Question I would ask Scots and other folk living in Scotland:

    Who do you relate to most as a fellow citizen, Nicola Sturgeon or Theresa May?

    We know what the answer would be?

  182. Ken500 says:

    Parliamentary Channel

    EU Brexit.

    Scottish Brexit Minister

  183. gus1940 says:


    According to the BBC news site – to add to the countless billions already or currently being thrown at SE England Transport Infrastructure – a decision has been taken on the route to be followed by the new road tunnel under The Thames Estuary.

    I haven’t seen any indication of the proposed cost but no doubt whatever that turns out to be the scheme will be considered one of those National Infrastructure Improvements and will not therefore generate any Barnett Consequentials.

    They have kept pretty quiet about that one as they have done about some plenty other schemes such as The Millenium Thames Diversion Channel round the Windsor area which I only found out about a couple of years ago.

  184. gus1940 says:

    The lead article in this week’s Scottish Review by that bitter and twisted individual Kenneth Roy is a nit picking hatchet job criticising a recent interview Nicola gave to The BBC.

    Can I suggest that Roy untwists his mind and applies the same demolition treatment to the utterances of May, Davidson/Harrison, Dugdale and Rennie.

  185. galamcennalath says:

    David Sillars says:

    A strong argument for Independence

    A good article, thanks for highlighting it.

    Nothing there that an informed Remain voter didn’t knew before the actual EURef. The problem is of course that many Leave voters thought Brexit was something else!

    Yes, the article describes in a nutshell why Scotland needs to get away from this madness.

    The one group in Scotland who need to be targeted with this vision of Brexit UKFckedUp are Leave voting Yessers. They chose Leave for a variety of reasons but I am certain very few did so to opt for what May et al plan!

    However you feel about the EU, it does not represent the clear and present danger to Scotland that the Union does!

  186. Thepnr says:


    “The one group in Scotland who need to be targeted with this vision of Brexit UKFckedUp are Leave voting Yessers.”

    Totally agree. This group are critical to a successful Independence campaign and result. If I remember correctly from the Wings panelbase poll 11% of No voting remainers have switched to Yes while 13% of Yes voting leavers have gone the other way and now say they would vote No.

    Their minds can be changed if given the information such as is in the article in the Independent. No way were they voting for that when they voted leave. Win back half of this group and victory will be for the side supporting Independence.

  187. Cactus says:

    Scottish local elections, 2017

    If you haven’t yet seen, here’s where we’re at.,_2017

    Vote wisely.

  188. crazycat says:

    @ Socrates at 8.20 and again later

    In your ward there is an Independent who was untiul recently in the SNP and who is a tireless worker for independence (and my pal, in case you hadn’t guessed!). I would vote for her if I could.

    Also the Scottish Libertarians are supposedly pro-indy.

    That gives you 5 preferences before you have to decide which is your least unfavourite colour of Tory. I personally especially dislike the non-incumbent SLab candidate.

  189. Capella says:

    Richard Murphy die to debate GERS on the John Beattie show at 12:30 pm.

    He has circulated the arguments he hopes to make. Maybe he knows that his “line” is likely to drop whenever something awkward is said.

  190. Capella says:

    die = due

  191. Thepnr says:


    I think there might be a spike in radio Scotland listening figures around 12:30 for some reason 🙂

  192. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The truth is there are no ‘Scottish’ Unionist parties, none, nada. There are only branches of the London parties.”

    Branches? Surely you mean ‘twigs’?

  193. Cactus says:

    @City of Glasgow

    Just for you Glasgow.,_2017

    If you scroll down, you get to see all the candidates that’ll be on your voting slip.

    Forewarned is forearmed and

    Knowledge is power

    Have a great Wiki-Wednesday 😉

  194. geeo says:


    I posted that map on facebook, along with 2 others which indicated both 1st preferences and largest party (seats) per council area.

    39.6% Turnout.

    If we Get The Vote Out, we can make a big statement.

    Scottish local elections, 2012 – Wikipedia,_2012

    Gaining overall control of Glasgow is the big prize here for me.

    I am in Falkirk, and clearly want shot of the Tory/labour/space cadet coalition…(if in Falkirk, DO NOT vote for Billy Buchannan, that is just embarrassing).

  195. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    Branches? Surely you mean ‘twigs’?

    twig, verb ….

    To perceive and recognize the meaning of:

    accept, apprehend, catch (on), compass, comprehend, conceive, fathom, follow, get, grasp, make out, read, see, sense, take, take in, understand. (Informal) savvy. (Slang) dig. (Scots) ken. Idioms: get (or have) a handle on, get the picture.

    Hell, No 😉

  196. Capella says:

    @ Thepnr – yes – I wonder if K****n H****e will show up or not! if not he then who? 🙂

  197. galamcennalath says:

    geeo says:

    If we Get The Vote Out, we can make a big statement.


    And remember, folks, the Tories are saying exactly the same thing!

    The SNP MUST get their supporters out on the day.

    I suspect Labour won’t be able to achieve this. That may help us in two ways, firstly we take over their councils, but secondly it means their voters won’t turn out to give the Tories lower preferences.

  198. K1 says:

    Thanks Capella, listening now 🙂

  199. K1 says:

    He is showing up Capella!

  200. Cactus says:

    Aweright and aye indeed geeo ~

    I sees Billy Buchanan of Falkirk is an ‘incumbent‘ too.

    I take it all the incumbent unionist (anti-indy) candidates go to the very bottom of your list…

    For those that don’t already know..

    “An incumbent is someone who currently holds a political office. This word is usually used when talking about elections, which are often between the incumbent and one other person or several other people.”

    Nice timing by the way.

  201. Capella says:

    Ha Ha = from Richard Murphy who was due on at 12:30

    Sitting waiting for @BBCJohnBeattie to come on line so we can discuss GERS. But right now there isn’t even a line. I hope that’s not an omen

  202. Brian Powell says:

    All the talk of getting the vote out is important but it seems some are allowing the Tories to set the agenda on what the vote means.

    T May and the Tory candidates claim it is about saying No to Independence and to some extent the Yes side has allowed that to become the measure.

    The Council elections is about taking control of Councils from Labour, which have used them in the way the Labour MPs used Westminster. A nice job for ife, damn the constituents. Glasgow and Aberdeen in particular.

    Anyone from Aberdeen should read this:

  203. Sinky says:

    Richard Murphy just tweeted: I am amused: @kevverage can’t park his car so we’re delayed on air. I, of course, arrived early to make sure that this was not an issue

  204. Thepnr says:

    GERS “Made up data” states Richard Murphy. Great!

  205. K1 says:

    All right wing think tanks he quotes. Hague’s very patronising and yes very rude!

    Sniggering like the little prick he is.

  206. Thepnr says:

    That H****E fella is an arsehole, sniggering like a little schoolboy.

  207. Proud Cybernat says:

    GERS debate on BBC.

    Surprised they even allowed this to go ahead?

    Doesn’t matter who gets the upper-hand in the debate or is deemed to have ‘won’. The whole GERS mantra becomes undermined merely by virtue of the fact that there are bona fide economists (as opposed to pet food salesman) saying the GERS figures are meaningless and next to useless in projecting how an Indy Scotland would look economically.

    That there are serious people questions GERS will place doubt into the minds of many, especially those who are inclined to defer to authority.

    The whole GERS myth is forever damaged after this. Difficult to remove doubt once it has been planted in a person’s head. If anything, it will have the more intelligent go and seek more information on GERS for them to create a more informed opinion.

    GERS is a busted flush. (Yes, it always was but a lot of folks didn’t know that).

  208. DerekM says:

    FFS listen to Brian Powell you guys do not be distracted from the job we need to do,the tories can not win without the slab vote.

    Finish the job we started on the red tories then we can turn our full attention to the blue tories.

    I for one will vote the slabbers at the bottom in my ward,i do not care about the tory line a rise in their vote is a vote against another referendum,what the whole 22% yea i am really crapping my pants that tory councilors not in control of the council will manage to block the Scottish parliament from having another referendum on indy.

  209. Proud Cybernat says:

    Ha ha – Hague’s arse served to him in a silver doggie bowl.

    “”Nobody suggests that the GERS figures suggest what a future independent Scotland would look like” K***n H***e.

    Like I said – GERS a busted flush.

  210. Flower of Scotland says:

    Listened to Richard Murphy and Kevin Hague on GERS on RS.

    Well done Richard Murphy! I taped it. I’m going to listen again and again.

    Some actual good stuff for a change on the State Broadcaster!

  211. Flower of Scotland says:

    DerekM at12.59pm

    I agree with Brian Powell. “Vote till you boak” and put the Tories last.

  212. Another Union Dividend says:

    @ Thepnr says:
    12 April, 2017 at 12:55 pm

    If I was Richard Murphy I would have asked amateur blogger Hague to show us his economics gold medal or even degree certificate.

  213. frogesque says:

    Dog food salesman all shouty and personal. Sounded like he lost the plot on Brewer Shortbread.

    Prof keeps his cool.

    Elsewhere Parliament TV shows Feb Brexit committee taking evidence from Mike Russell, MSP Brexit Minister. Class act, Gove trying to be a smarmy smartass got well put in his place.

  214. HandandShrimp says:

    Vote till you boak has to be the simplest easiest to follow definition yet. Rank them all and put the Tories last…unless they are not standing in which case put the most anti-SNP Yoon last.

  215. Capella says:

    The GERS discussion was spoiled by K***N H***E resorting to ad hominem insults e.g. Richard Murphy is an “outlier” and everybody else agrees with KH. I doubt if Joseph Stiglitz has even heard of KH.

    Thought RM did well to get his point across (that GERS is not fit for purpose) in spite of incoming flak from KH.
    MSPs ought now to demand the data they need for decision making.

    Good that the issue has been aired. Bad that the Unionist was so rude.

  216. HandandShrimp says:

    The Unionists are rude because they are desperate. Hague is backing some new Better Together outfit the name of which escapes me. This is not the action of someone that thinks there won’t be a referendum or indeed that winning it will be a cinch. Fear makes people shouty.

  217. Dal Riata says:

    Anent the Daily Mail.

    So, Ivanka Trump has won her case against the dirty filthy scumbags. Good on her. They used shitty, weasely, nudge-nudge, wink-wink words to basically call her a hooker in her pre Mrs. Trump days, ffs! It’s allegedly cost them $US3 million, including legal costs and damages.

    Unfortunately, it’s the people with less financial backing to take them to court that oftentimes have their lives ruined, or suffer terribly, both emotionally and physically as a result of the Mail’s lies, distortions and innuendos.

    The Rothermeres and Dacre have a lot to answer for. Utter bastards. They should be in jail the lot of them, and their evil ‘newspaper’ shut down for good.

  218. Capella says:

    dal Riata – it was Malena who sued the Daily Mail. Ivanka is too busy running the Whitehouse and ordering missile strikes against Syria.

  219. heedtracker says:

    Missed oor Ken on the radio but cometh the hour cometh the yoon?

    Historywoman Retweeted
    (((StephenDaisley)))?Verified account @JournoStephen 1h1 hour ago
    A majority of Scots are against nationalism but they lack a leader and a movement. Me in April’s

    Kevin would be great Leader, with Historywoman as No.2. Its very fattest but when you see the size of Daisley, its hard not feel sympathy for the poor sod. I mean Bliar McD’s ENORME, but good god Daisley’s a walking heart attack.

  220. DerekM says:

    @ Flower of Scotland

    That may be the case in the ward you are in but in my ward the threat is the slabbers,i already live under a lab/con coalition.

    Last time the disgraceful slab criminals in Falkirk council went into coalition with the tory to keep the SNP out the council.

    I will vote until i boak but the slabbers will be bottom especially that crooked bastard Goldie if this leads to one tory and 3 indy from my ward i will be over the moon,because it removes 2 slab votes in the final and without them there is no way in hell for the tory to win.

    As i said before all wards are different there is not a one way fits all.

  221. HandandShrimp says:

    In the bad old days tabloids used to laugh off big court loses as they raked it in with huge circulations. Those days are gone. A $3m loss plus court costs will hurt the Mail

    I thought I felt a pang of pity there but I think I may just have eaten my sandwiches too quickly. 🙂

  222. Mungo says:

    Personally I thought they both sounded like a couple of primary kids. Our guy sounded like he was going to start crying ffs. Surely we could have found a Scotsman/woman to put our case calmly and clearly instead of 25mins of awful whining?

  223. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Yesterday I tried (twice) to respond to you on the previous thread, but my posts did not appear. Now I keep being told it’s a duplicate comment even though I alter bits to make it not so.”

    Readers! Please try to PAY ATTENTION! I’m fed up having to say this.

    Wings has a filter for certain contentious or offensive phrases which means posts are put into pre-moderation so they can be checked. One of the trigger words is “rape”, because I very much dislike seeing it used in an inappropriate context. It is clearly NOT inappropriate in the context of the rape-clause debate, but of course there’s no way of telling the filter that.

    So any comment containing the word will be held in moderation until I see it and manually approve it. Please do NOT post comments multiple times if they don’t initially appear, as that just makes the job of moderation exponentially more tedious. There will be a reason for it, and they’ll show up soon enough.

  224. Artyhetty says:

    GERS is the one thing that is used to keep Scotland shackled to the UK so that they can keep taking Scotland’s resources. Too poor! It will really p**s people off, when the masses realise they have been had, big time.

    Fantasy numbers, made up by the UK establishment to keep Scotland shackled. Which country in the world allows their neighbour to do a supposed, yearly audit on their finances, while er, removing their oil from their country and taking tax revenues, and sending a few crumbs back.

    Where are the yearly figures for england, Wales or NI? Who does their audit.

    The UK establishment have had it so good, they are terrified of the truth getting out, they have been cooking the books, convincing, brain washing people into thinking they must be too poor and can only survive with the generous hand outs from their London masters, the treasury.

    Treasure alright, Scotland is the treasure of the UK, without it england would be bankrupt.

    Let’s get out soon as possible.

  225. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Personally I thought they both sounded like a couple of primary kids. Our guy sounded like he was going to start crying ffs. Surely we could have found a Scotsman/woman to put our case calmly and clearly instead of 25mins of awful whining?”

    He’s not “our guy”, he has no dog in the fight of independence. But that’s a mindbogglingly harsh interpretation of how he did. I thought he handled H***e’s standard disruptive rude tactics pretty well. It’s remarkably difficult to cope with live, because most people are human and offended by abuse.

  226. Fairliered says:

    If he has no dog in the fight for independence, H***e won’t be able to sell him any dog food.

  227. Thepnr says:


    You have it right I think. Pay attention to your own ward and especially the potential make up of your own council. Getting Independents in ahead of Tories or Labour will make it harder for a Tory/Lab coalition.

    I think we should all just do what we think best. Educating yourself is the start of that, if not a majority for the SNP then at least making them the largest party should be the goal.

    If that means placing a Tory above a Labour candidate in your council then so be it. Vote until you boak though is IMO definitely the right strategy to maximise the Independence voice.

    Well done Cadogan Enright who I first heard this from.

  228. Mungo says:

    Rev, do you think Robin MacAlpine would have responded like that? The only useful thing to come out of that interview was the point about how an independent Scotland’s finances couldn’t be calculated by GERS, conceded by Hauge. The rest of it seemed to me like a jumble of incomplete sentences. Most people listening to that would have gotten very little from it.

  229. Fred says:

    I’m disappointed in my local SNP cooncilor shoving a hand-bill through the door as an Independent, he failed to get selected so stands against the party he used to get himself elected in the first place.

  230. Cactus says:


    “Please do NOT post comments multiple times if they don’t initially appear..”

    Here’s a handy tip for ye btl commenters.

    If you’re posting your comment from a desktop / laptop computer, once you’ve submitted your comment and the page has updated, (if your post doesn’t show immediately) check out the webpage ‘path-line’ at the top of your page first.

    You should notice that you’ve been assigned a unique post entry number.
    It’ll look something like this below: (this takes you to Thepnr’s post at 2:15 pm)


    Take a break, go grab a cuppa, come back and then refresh the page (F5) key.

    Also, if you ‘mouse-over’ the date / time stamp at the bottom of any comment, you will see the path-line for that unique post entry number displayed there.

  231. Thepnr says:


    I understand your feeling of disappointment and it’s unlikely you’ll know why he fell out with the SNP leadership in your ward unless you ask him.

    What you have to ask yourself though is this. Is his heart in the right place and might he prevent the Unionists from forming a coalition in your council if he sided with the SNP?

    I’d tend to give him the benefit of the doubt, if you don’t give him a vote then it’s likely that a Lab/Con/Lib gets in instead.

    Your choice of course and good luck, I want what I’m not going to get and that is ALL councils in Scotland being Indy supporting. I’ll settle for second best and that is most councils in Scotland. We can all play our part in that.

  232. Ken MacColl says:

    Surprised to see that the Daily Mail was successfully sued for substantial damages for inaccurate and untruthful reporting by FLOTUS. Apparently the paper just made up the story.Is this a first?
    Shurely shome Mishtake?

  233. Fred says:

    Dunno Thepnr, he just failed to get selected, mebbes too auld? There’s a time to call it a day & make room for the economically active. Folk who keep shoving themselves forward with no democratic support should just be cultivating their rhubarb patch. Sillars is a case in point!

  234. Can anyone tell me who wrote the story?

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