Where Have All The Flowers Gone?
There are, at the most generous possible maximum estimate, maybe 1600 people here, including the wee knot of 100 or so Unionists circled at bottom left.
That is now the size of the self-styled “mainstream independence movement”.
(Although actually it’s even less than that, as a significant section of the crowd came from a separate pro-Palestine march which converged in the square.)
They weren’t tightly packed. (Why would they be? Plenty room.)
A few years ago, marches which the SNP shunned gathered crowds of 100,000+ in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Today, on a lovely mild sunny day, with the First Minister speaking and pleading beforehand for people to show up, they got about 7000 fewer than the number of optimistic Aberdeen fans who trekked down the A90 in blind hope rather than expectation for a 12.30pm kickoff at Hampden in the Scottish Cup.
(More people watched Ayr United beat Arbroath last week.)
We took pics from the George Square webcam for two hours, during the speeches, to make sure it was a fair representation.
This is how many were there for Humza Yousaf.
By the time he took the stage around 4pm, maybe two-thirds of the marchers had already marched off home, leaving just a few hundred. This is how many were left at the end of his address to the let’s-be-generous-and-still-call-it-a-“crowd”:
We were going to say more, but the pictures seem to cover it.
I’m not mad, I’m disappointed; but I’m not disappointed in the SNP, I’m disappointed in myself for believing in the SNP.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”
? Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
Staffers and their pals and family-members, most likely. Who else would chance being seen in broad-daylight at an SNP sponsored event these day?
That’s not the real Independence movement it’s the SNP and Greens show. A failed Government that is just about to find out what the Scottish people think of them. I saw signs today of an improvement in Aberdeens performance. For some reason I stuck a tenner on them. Unlucky. But Chris inspired me to stick a tenner on Hamish in the 1:30 Newbury. Up on the day. Stay positive.
@andyellis 4.15pm. Exactly my sentiments.
Interesting to see if the Greens will vote to ‘save’ the planet or to save their ministerial salaries.
It’s all over now.
Just wondering how many put there hands in there pockets to donate to the SNP save me fund.
There were substantially mair folk at the last big Gaza march (I was wan) & it was pissing doon.
Andy Ellis
Ignored
says:
20 April, 2024 at 4:13 pm
I’m not mad, I’m disappointed; but I’m not disappointed in the SNP, I’m disappointed in myself for believing in the SNP.
There were good reasons for believing in the SNP. A cynical, corrupt clique were waiting in the wings to take the piss out of us. We live and learn.
I am a lifelong Independence supporter (I’m 76), so say 60 years as an active advocate of Independence. I have seldom missed a march or a rally. I did not go to today’s march and rally because I cannot lend even minimal support to a march fronted by Humza Yousaf. The SNP is morally bankrupt and the sooner the current crowd of troughers and betrayers of the trust of Independence supporters is swept away the more inclined I will be to take up an activists role again. I hope this happens while I am still able to get about under my own steam.
Incidentally, I spoke to an SNP supporter (a nice woman) yesterday and she is furious that the media have turned on Sturgeon and Murrell. I cannot convince her that they are not Independence supporters and they have taken away her chance of living in an Independent Scotland. She sees them as victims of ‘the system’. What can I say?
Ah it’s just sad.
And reinforces my intention to vote for ANYONE who will rid us of these charlatans.
A truism, but you can only be betrayed by your friends. More fool me. Retribution incoming
Looking at the empty spaces in George Square as the FM & Leader of the SNP (elected in breach of their own electoral rules) addressed the faithful remnant and mentally comparing independence marches of 2013/14 the famous quote of Calgacus (paraphrased by Tacitus) sprang to mind;
“These plunderers of the world, after exhausting the land by their devastations, are rifling the ocean: stimulated by avarice, if their enemy be rich: by ambition, if poor: unsatiated by the East and by the West:
The only people who view wealth and indigence with equal avidity.
To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call Empire:
And where they make a desert, they call it Peace.
I’m not disappointed for once believing in the SNP. The SNP changed, I haven’t.
https://tinyurl.com/yejpx9zj
Let Women speak – George Square
Looks busier than the SNP Rally
I had no time for Sturgeon before 2014 – which is why I left the SNP once she took over. Had Alex Salmond remained in charge we would be well on our way to INDEPENDENCE. I do know, however, that we’ll certainly gain our independence in the near future as the majority of Scots are determined to follow the wise example of the Irish.
I’m sure Unionists are already crowing independence is over. Let’s see how many turn out for AUOB in two weeks time. It will be a damn sight more than turned out today that’s for sure!
Anyone managing to open https://archive.is/?
I’m getting ‘Secure Connection Failed’
Don’t get mad. Get to Glasgow May 4th, and FFS get there in strength. It’s only 2 weeks away. It’s an AUOB gig, and right now it’s our good friend AUOB which the SNP and Business for Scotland is trying to assimilate.
And if you need a Saltire, Lindsay Bruce, Ayemail is trying to shift some YES flags and I expect would be grateful for the boost in morale.
Kelvingrove Park to Glasgow Green, starting at 11:30am. Get there folks and bring your friends. Your Country needs you, and so does your Independence Movement.
I know it takes time, momentum, and most of all hope to assemble big and joyous 100k crowds, but we can dream, and we need to start taking back our Independence initiative. Assemble in whatever strength we can.
We also need to back SALVO with Scotland’s people power, and give some actual momentum to your anger.
Stop putting your faith in visionless, toss-pot, career politicians who simply crave wealth and celebrity.
If you want something done properly and all that… do it yourself. That’s it though, SALVO is ourselves.
Grouser says:
20 April, 2024 at 4:58 pm
This sort of mindset was acceptable up until and during the first SNP administration at Holyrood but this shouldn’t be happening after nearly 17 years of continued power.
The problem is that too many people are stuck in 2014 and can’t look towards the future. That’s why the likes of the Murrell’s are still in power, albeit behind the scenes and will continue to do so as long as this mindset continues.
The solution is simple where an independence led Holyrood parliament, the majority being SNP but kept honest but smaller independence parties pursues competent governance and policies that genuinely benefits the majority of the population and make the case for independence based on that.
The moment the Scottish liberation movement stops acting like a lion with ill fitting dentures?
ROOOAAAAR!
Lesley Riddoch needs a reality check.
The SNP and their freaky Green mates can GIRFUY!
Indy for Scotland!
SNP Out!
c: “Where have all the flowers gone?”
r: “Oklahoma?”
How old is that sketch now…
I am sure that the majority of the real grassroots independence movement knew full well that today’s march was just a ploy to try to shift peoples’ support to snp where it could be controlled and exploited. They are mad that the grassroots have deserted snp, for good reason too, and worse, have withdrawn their funding. I bet that even if it is yet another cold dreich day for the May AUOB march, that the turnout will hugely surpass today’s non-event. I just wonder if the message is getting through to the hard-of-understanding yet, including the snp heirarchy.
Maybe another arrest next week I hear
Humza’s speech has been whitewashed. Persil White.
It’s all white USAF it will be all white on the night.
Why would any white person attend a rally in support of a man who so obviously is opposed to white people occupying positions of authority?
Looking at the pics:
White.
White!
White!!
White!!!
White!!!!
White!!!!!
White!!!!!!
And Humza Yousaf.
I am not surprised the crowd is so small.
Sturgeon and others have done the dirty work for the Brit Spook Agencies.If only we had a Time Machine and could travel back in time and alter events and stop Sturgeon before her Coronation and also throttle the Woke Movement at birth. It wasn’t just the SNP they hijacked but the Greens as well.
“Yousaf tells independence rally ‘last 48 hours have been tough'”
—————————————————————
He ain’t seen nothing yet.
The support has not gone, but the heart is not in it. Like a marathon runner who stops racing because failure has emptied their will to succeed.
Failure and hopelessness can do strange things to people.
Watch a video, any video, of Yousaf giving a speech, especially in close-up. You will never see such utterly fake, plastic insincerity in a face, or a voice. As for the weird grimace, and sneer and eye roll, the less said the better
@ Big Jock at 7.17pm: The support for SNP-backed astroturf rallies evidently has gone. Why would anybody who genuinely wants independence support a party that has utterly failed to deliver independence? What does ‘Believe in Scotland’ even mean? It certainly doesn’t mean independence.
Frantz Fanon wrote that the rupture in an independence movement occurs between what is known as the ‘legal (i.e. S.30) tendency’ and the ‘illegal tendency’; the latter focus on independence and self-determination as just, as the peoples right and a matter of international law, the former as a matter of domestic (i.e. colonial) law only.
The split occurs because the ‘legal tendency’ and its dependence only on the laws and courts of the oppressor has now stalled the movement. The party “moves ever closer to colonialism”, the party elite placing its faith in the ‘generosity’ of the oppressor power, rejecting any innovation to liberate the people and essentially leaving the matter of independence “to future events”. This is what the SNP has done, wasting the last 10 years and squandering six parliamentary majorities in favour of independence. The peoples patience is now worn out.
According to postcolonial theory, the ‘pampered bourgeoisie’ heading the ‘legal tendency’ are in for a rough ride, the people rightly cast them aside, also because of their oppressive laws, their “behaving like a gang”, now working “with colonial forces” becoming “an implement of coercion”, holding the movement back and actively delaying and preventing independence. This is why the movement stayed away.
Support for independence I meant, not the SNP. They are finished.
What does performance look like to the Scottish Government? We are past the stage and the extended stage of enrolment into a State School placement. My daughter is going for home schooling and plenty of degrees kicking around here mainly STEM degrees but also English. An under the radar failure unreported. You can’t get Independence when the people don’t trust the State to educate their children.
I went to the march. Smallest I’ve ever been on in Glasgow, that’s for sure. Mind, AUOB hasn’t been too great since Covid, either. But aye, this was all the more disappointing.
I went to BIS’s Edinburgh march last year (I’m a local). Turnout there was much better. The Greens were out in surprising force that time, but not so today. A handful were out today but only a fraction of their turnout in Edinburgh last year. A sense of disappointment and coming separation from Scotgov? Or are grassroots Greens as scunnered as the rest of us?
Think I saw Tommy Shepard with the Edinburgh East section and, obvs, Humza up front. I must admit that besides the FM the recognisable politicians were as few and far between as I’ve ever seen; even in places like Galashiels, Campbeltown and Oban!
I’ll go to the AUOB in a fortnight, too. I enjoy the walk! Hope a bigger turnout then. Will be looking all around to see who’s different.
Oh, and Salvo were on this march, Breeks. They had a bullhorn and pushed their message from the middle of the march, just like it was an AUOB.
Near the end I popped into a café for a leak. The teens in there were asking each other: what are they demonstrating? “Gaza,” they decided, fair enough. The balance of flags near the front would naturally lead you to that conclusion.
On one hand I’m sad at the small turn out, but on the other I know Yousaf and BiS aren’t really interested in Scottish independence, the former is looking for votes the latter to makes a living out of the indy business model.
The small crowd not only shows us that very few folk trust Yousaf/SNP but that interest in actually turning up for indy events doesn’t have the pulling power it once had.
Yousaf is on record saying at the SNP husting for a new SNP leader, that we need to ask Westminster for an S30, and that if Nicola Sturgeon couldn’t achieve independence no one can, Kate Forbes also wants to go cap in hand to Westminster for an S30.
The sad thing is that Scotland CAN’T really progress without independence.
I wouldn’t bet on the SNP as I wouldn’t want to lose my money. But I’d say the majority if not all these 1500 who attended where Councillors, MPs and MSPs and 93 was the membership who had a lifelong membership.
I’d love to know how many donated and if the event lost money on the stage.
This lot should be shitting themselves today, in their arrogance they thought they could just rock up and wrestle the marches from AUOB, they got slapped in the face with reality when they couldn’t even get their own membership to turn out.
Campbell. What the hell are you playing at? This article could have easily appeared in the Daily Mail. Indeed, this site has basically been mirroring Daily Mail talking points for a year.
The SNP is clearly riddled with London plants. It’s in the process of being scuppered, and London boy Humza will probably get a knighthood for his part in scuppering full autonomy for the Scots.
Please try to infuse this Daily Mail-esque site with some positive, forward-thinking articles which reflect the fact that over 50% in Scotland now want SFA to do with London.
Leave the sniping to Rothermere and his ilk.
More people in Greggs
Republicofscotland @ 20.31
I wouldn’t be too sad at the turnout today, RoS, I’d wager that the attendance at next month’s AUOB will greatly encourage you.
For myself, I was delighted to see how many independence minded Scots have finally seen through these grifters and wouldn’t give them the time of day.
Well done Scotland! xx
A good turn out would’ve only encouraged these grifting shysters.
Indy already has a collective march & rally. We see what you’re doing.
Let them fck off to the flat earther contingent – see how they get on.
The rest of us will remain in reality & await the next indy bus that doesn’t involve folding notes & eejits making demands like they’re some A listed star beloved by the masses.
I wonder if there were any arrests for hate crime LOL..
After the`14 ref this is what Westminster wanted to happen and this is exactly what has happened.
I watched it and there was hardy anyone there. I’m amazed that one newspaper says there were thousands at it. Something rang there
Cheer yourselves up, folks, by looking at some more of Chris Cairns cartoons – he really is a genius and they are still topical.
11.4.23 “Clearing the bar” – Humza limbo-ing under a bar set at “GRR”. The lowest setting is “Buy a motorhome”.
22.4.23 “Yes there have been governance issues but there’s no way Nicola would have none about them” says Shona Robison.
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”…
Cheer yourselves up, folks, by looking at some more of Chris Cairns cartoons – he really is a genius and they are still topical.
11.4.23 “Clearing the bar” – Humza limbo-ing under a bar set at “GRR”. The lowest setting is “Buy a motorhome”.
22.4.23 “Yes there have been governance issues but there’s no way Nicola would have Known about them” says Shona Robison.
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”…
@ McDuff at 9.54pm: The turnout at this astroturf rally is no reflection of the level of support for independence, it’s a reflection of the level of support for the SNP and its leader, who have done and are doing the square root of F.A. to bring about independence. Indeed, this rally and the organisation behind it, Believe in Scotland, appears designed to cause further division amongst supporters of independence at a time when maximum unity is required.
The MP for Glasgow East was at Firhill, where even a 4-0 drubbing by Plastic Whistle was preferable to listening to his boss…
watching the shitshow from southern England, laughing my rocks off.
Scotland you’ve been had!
Hells teeth,how stupid are those people?
Wake up ffs!
On a brighter note, Stu you are one amazing human.
Your tenacity and journalistic ability are outstanding.
The MSM cannot even get
close to your abilities.
There are a whole number of reasons why there were so many missing from the march/rally. One of them was that some marchers were chanting the well known anti=Semitic dirge – ‘from the river to the sea’ amd waving Hamas flags.
It has been my experience that most of these people know very little about the Middle East and its conflicts and just jump on any bandwagon in order to get noticed.
Hopefully, the genuine independence marchers will, in two weeks time, will concentrate on calling for SCOTTISH self-government and nothing else.
Stu
Good journalism once again from Wings over Scotland, and sound named Sources of videos and photography for evidence, with reference to source of news,
Unlike the Non vague MSM rhetoric, “Our sources” ( which we at not at liberty to reveal) say……..anything they dam well please,
Do you think the Web cams will be working when the real Scottish independent march starts in May, or do you think there will be instruction for them to be out of Order by local councils, SNP and the greens?
Better take your phones and film it just in case and get the national photographer to do that special low shot, ha ha,
It is, perhaps, apposite to quote that old rascal Winston Churchill, who, on analysing
the victory of General Montgomerys 8th army over Field Marshall Rommels Afrika Corps at El Alamein.
Churchill remarked.
“Now is not the end,it is, perhaps not even the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning”
As an old farmer friend from Clackmannan is won’t to say,”It’s a guid raid oot they’re needin”.
Wings Over Scotland – Stuart Campbell summed up the people perfectly. You described them as the Independence Industry. Coming undone. A great man needs no introduction but I would give you an award if I could for your journalism. God bless you. And thank you for everything you continue to do.
Alf Baird’s “Frantz Fanon” assessment seems spot on.
The pampered bourgeois of the party elite have indeed sought to win personal benefit from colonial association with their London superiors.
It may be that modern media means the public have more quickly seen this betrayal than in the past.
What can we learn from history about how we can rebuild quickly; again, does the modern comms environment help or hinder?
What do we need? Intellect? Personality? Leadership?
What wasimportant in previous independence movements? What worked and what van we learn?
Any independence party that is actually CELEBRATING 90 yrs is obviously and shamelessly grifting.
Andy Storrie
Ignored says:
20 April, 2024 at 8:57 pm
Campbell. What the hell are you playing at? This article could have easily appeared in the Daily Mail. Indeed, this site has basically been mirroring Daily Mail talking points for a year.…
Look! Somebody blind, deaf and dumb who still manages to write. How remarkable.
Question for you Storrie, just how corrupt, dishonest, ineffective and detrimental to Scotland’s interests would the SNP’s Vichy Assembly have to be before an imbecile like yourself would recognise there was a mature and advanced seditious insurrection underway and close to achieving its goals of derailing Scottish Independence for 10 years and counting?
Squandering Brexit. Not enough. Abdicating the Claim of Right. Not enough. Smearing Alex Salmond as a sex offender. Not enough. Squandering a 56 / 59 SNP landslide after doing not a single thing with it. Not enough. Ignoring one Independence mandate after another. Not enough. Ostracising a string of worthy Independence stalwarts, some of the calibre of Joanna Cherry QC who twice wiped the floor with the UK Establishment – sacked and shunned by the SNP for not being a team player. Not enough for Andy Storrie. YES attacked and systematically dismantled. The SNP doing fk all to advance Scottish Independence yet infested with toxic brats promoting toe curling crank issues of sex and gender. Still not enough. Parading a SNP backed drag Queen before Scottish Primary School bairns. Every blog, from Wee Blue Book Wings to Barrheadboy, the living embodiment of the mighty 2014 YES Cybernats vilified by the SNP smearmongers for the cardinal sin of condemning the SNP’s cynical litany of failure and betrayal, and I haven’t even started on the crime yet. Education. Ferries. Renewables. An Energy Company. The A9. Scotland’s Oil. Carbon Capture. Grangemouth. Still nothing there to catch your attention Mr Storrie?
What are they playing at? Answer that Storrie.
Give me a reason for any of it; apart from derailing Scottish Independence that is, and pulling the arms and legs off everything Alex Salmond’s people and remarkable Government had achieved. Give me a reason for that.
You’ll notice I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re a legit Independence supporter, not just a shit stirring insurgent yourself. Your next answer, if it comes, will surely clarify the distinction.
At last, the Scottish people are finally waking up to the frauds, dunces and weirdos which have infested the SNP, and that your lazy conspiracy theory rhetoric Mr Storrie is actually the cover story for the actual conspiracy fact. There is nothing left to salvage from the SNP. Let it rot.
@ Breeks 3.07am well said breeks, I’ve seen Stories name on a couple of indy blogs can’t remember which ones, but my guess would be paypal pauls or Munguins Republic both of them sturgeon sycophants and apologists
Obviously he has comprehension problems but he needs to know “WHEESHTING for Indy didnae work” it only encouraged the poison dwarf more
twathater
Ignored says:
21 April, 2024 at 4:17 am
Obviously he has comprehension problems but he needs to know “WHEESHTING for Indy didnae work” it only encouraged the poison dwarf more…
There’s a human condition in some people which takes some understanding, that I lack quite frankly.
Stepping completely away from politics, a good few years ago there was a property development somewhere in Scotland, I won’t name it, where the occupier had been taken to the cleaners.
No ambiguity here. We’re talking structural columns resting on single joists, window lintels that didn’t have any lintels there, and the Electrician reckoned if someone had raised their hand while using the shower they’d have been electrocuted. You couldn’t plaster the walls because they moved too much. It really was a crook as developer, no question of poor or shoddy workmanship, this was flat out deceit. The whole property should have been condemned, and it’s a mockery of Health and Safety legislation that it wasn’t.
Every contractor brought in to fix this debacle was saying the same thing; the customer had been conned and diddled out of a load of money, with nothing to show for it but a death trap, with any number of fatal accidents waiting to happen. Get out and sue.
But the owner wasn’t listening. He didn’t want to give up on the place and walk away, and sue the developer to get his money back because he had this delusion in his brain that he was lucky to get the place and didn’t want to lose it. So he just kept going and signed more cheques.
His attitude was a complete mystery, which strangely for workies on a building site went beyond ridicule. This was a nice guy who’d been totally shafted, and I think accepting that would have totally broken the guy. It was kinda heartbreaking to witness, because it made helping the guy futile. He wasn’t a mug, (well he was), but first and foremost he was a victim.
There’s point in life when disasters get too deep and intractable, and there’s no easy way out. The solution is not to shut your eyes and ears, and hope it will all work out, but listen to the warnings of people who are alert to the problem that you’re not seeing. Yes, that covers hindsight, but it also means today, right now, and stopping self delusion. It’s never too late to stop digging.
If people like Rev Stu had been listened to rather than vilified for objective, researched and documented criticism, then these bellends who’ve destroyed the SNP and set Scottish Independence adrift on the open sea would have been nipped in the bud and NEVER have risen to power.
Add any degree of orchestrated skullduggery from the shadows, (and we all know that’s a major factor), and we are where we are. The Union is rock solid, Scotland is still being stripped of its assets, and the Movement dedicated to rescuing Scotland left fractured, disillusioned, scunnered and mired in acrimony. Good job Nicola Sturgeon- the toast of Whitehall on oh so many occasions passed, and sadly, yet to come.
The sickening wee truth about that homeowner? I heard he went bankrupt, and because of his stubbornness, the crook who started it all was never sued and kept all the money.
Credit to the Rev as ever he uses all reasonable means to justify the crowd numbers.
I recall seeing Labour’s Dim Jim Murphy with a bus load of possibly hired students forming a small crowd around him and a BBC camera man Neiling down on the edge of them to make it look like a busy crowd.
Murphy spoke for 5 minutes attracting around 8 members of the public before they all ran off. Was it to a new shoot or were the hired hands only paid for a hour.
That Dick Leonard another so called leader played a similar game for the Unionist media at Central station but he had about 14 people with him for a few hours.
What ever happened to the criminals behind these actions?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeHtNxR2/
The Murrells are well down the road to becoming pariahs. I don’t think they can stop it anymore.
A week is a long time in politics they say and we have many months to go before the next election.
It is not going to take much more, especially if it involves Sturgeon directly, for the damn to really burst on SNP support.
20 seats might be wildly optimistic.
And the beauty of it is, they removed everyone from power who is capable, or at least had a chance, of saving them. Such is their devotion to the pariah queen.
I forget which Labour manifesto (in the 80’s) was described as the longest suicide note in history but watching this abomination of an SNPG ‘unfold’ has to be greatest act of political suicide ever seen… from 56 seats out of 59 to rapists in woman’s prisons.
But anyway they replaced Murrell with the guy who penned The Vow. So that is much better then obviously… Again you could not make it up.
Everything they do is inherently divisive. That is the only constant. Divisive.
The grubby Murrells. Scotland’s poundland Ceausescu’s. Surprised they did not put their crest on the Saltire, or maybe a picture of a motorhome and a wad of tenners. They came close in the SNP online shop a few times with their boak inducing fawning T-shirts.
While the purpose of the article is solely a dig at the SNP, it’s content rips apart the so-called left and it’s ‘Progressivism’ which the SNP have wholeheartedly embraced.
https://archive.is/7YdbD
Stephen Walt (co-author of The Isr@el Lobby) wrote an article recently and made a brilliant point. He said that because the Lobby / Israelis had effectively silenced (through smears of ant-semitism) and removed from power (using the Lobby etc) anyone remotely critical of them for decades, they had also removed any sort of brake on their behaviour becoming more and more extreme… and that is exactly what happened.
This has brought them to the point where they are now, completely mad in the eyes of the world, committing an open genocide and campaign of ethnic cleansing. It is incredible to witness.
But there is a parallel here with the Sturgeon SNP… they also ruthlessly silenced and removed their internal critics, and in doing so they removed any brake on their own behavior, and as a predictable consequence, it escalated, it got worse and worse until we find ourselves where we are today. A runaway train of woke insanity with total cretins in charge.
The only way it ends, is that it ‘kills’ the host, the infected party. That is the only known ‘cure’.
(Trying again with a couple of tweaks)
Stephen Walt (co-author of The Isr@el Lobby) wrote an article recently and made a brilliant point. He said that because the Lobby / Isr@elis had effectively silenced (through smears of ant-semitism) and removed from power (using the Lobby etc) anyone remotely critical of them for decades, they had also removed any sort of brake on their behaviour becoming more and more extreme… and that is exactly what happened.
This has brought them to the point where they are now, completely mad in the eyes of the world, committing an open genocide and campaign of ethnic cleansing. It is incredible to witness.
But there is a parallel here with the Sturgeon SNP… they also ruthlessly silenced and removed their internal critics, and in doing so they removed any brake on their own behavior, and as a predictable consequence, it escalated, it got worse and worse until we find ourselves where we are today. A runaway train of woke insanity with total cretins in charge.
The only way it ends, is that it ‘kills’ the host, the infected party. That is the only known ‘cure’.
Excerpt from Sunday Times; “Both McAllan and Gilruth have been talked about as potential future SNP leaders”.
Should it come to pass that Gilruth becomes Yousaf’s immediate successor, we would be witnessing a feat of truly remarkable prescience on the part of the US State Department.
Former school teacher Gilruth was designated a “future opinion leader” by the State Dept. and was included in a delegation to Washington as part of their International Visitors Leadership Programme, 35 working days after being sworn in as a rookie MSP.
Mind you, the State Dept. have form when it comes to identifying “future opinion leaders”. Yousaf was anointed as such in his 2nd year as a humble parliamentary aide to his MSP uncle.
Perhaps Foggy Bottom funds its activities by picking the winning numbers for the Euro Millions.
The smearing of Trump by vested interests and former allies is similar to that of Salmond.
I don’t rate anyone who goes in for either as a cheap shot. Looking at you Nicola.
Was one of the aforementioned boak inducing Sturgeon fawning T-shirts not something like “In Nicola We Trust”.
I have a feeling those T-shirt, as nauseating as they were at the time, will end up being collector’s items.
Ideally I’d like to wear one sitting in the public gallery at her criminal trial alongside Motorhome Murrell, Leslie Evans and Woman H.
How much did this event cost and who paid for it? Thought they were skint.
Mark Beggan says:
21 April, 2024 at 9:42 am
How much did this event cost and who paid for it? Thought they were skint.
………………..
Mark, correct me if I am wrong but is it not the case that Glasgow City Cooncil is “run” (don’t laugh…) by a minority SNP group, possibly being “led” by a person called Susan Aitken?
There’s a lot of other people’s money available to squander in a Scottish Cooncil the size of Glasgow City.
Don’t ever forget how easy it is to give away someone else’s money, and then bask in looking generous.
Cameras going on the blink would not be difficult to arrange.
@Mac says: 21 April, 2024 at 9:02 am
“Trying again with a couple of tweaks”
The reason you have to keep tweaking your posts is because you keep abusing the hospitality of Rev Stu.
He has made it abundantly clear which subjects he doesn’t want on here, hijacking the discussion, on behalf of the monomaniacal carpet baggers who seem to be attracted to Indy like moths to a flame.
Why don’t you take the hint?
These days, Craig Murray is your natural home. I suggest you flit – you’ll be among friends there.
I can’t open that link. Getting ‘Secure Connection Failed’
I’ve been fiddling around trying to sort it that without success.
Anyone else got that problem with archive.is?
I think it’s something to do with their certificate being out of date.
It used to be you could advance at your own risk this is no longer an option.
Message reads
‘Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.’
Since I can’t open the website I cant get in touch with the owners.
Wondering if this is ‘Big Brother’ trying to prevent archiving of bad news or just a minor blip that will be sorted out soon and I just need to be patient.
Michael Laing 10.43pm
My point is Michael is that the SNP under AS nearly brought us independence and under AS it had a quality brand. That brand had to be destroyed. Just look at the SNP since NS took control, the prosecutions of prominent independence supports and the stream of negatives degrading the party, CalMac, hate crime bill, woke, finances……
Unfortunately the SNP is still the recognised party of independence yet its political stance over the past ten years it is that of anti independence.
As I have said before someone is sitting somewhere saying job done.
“These days, Craig Murray is your natural home. I suggest you flit – you’ll be among friends there.”
The Daily Fail sounds like yours yet here you are..
Buzz, buzz, buzzing around on an Indy site & yer not even indy.
Manky jaiket is missing an eejit.
To be fair the greens were to a man ( can you still that about the Greens ?) on tunnel duty in the basement of Bute House for tomorrow’s breakfast time announcement
that there will be a Scottishparluament election in June
Where have all the flowers gone from BTL on Wings?
Is my question.
What is causing people to leave?
I was very sad to see Robert Hughes leave. He told us he was going but most others just don’t post anymore.
I was surprised by Mac’s latest post. As Stu might say he just doesn’t seem to be able to take a fuckin’ hint.
Everyone will have different opinions as to why people might be ditching the BTL ‘debate’ I reckon it could be something to do with the forum being hijacked by a few people who insist on discussing ‘banned’ topics like wars in unmentionable places.
Very reasonable posters have complained about this and wondered why events happening in Scotland weren’t being discussed.
Others think it’s due to the ‘Mrs Che’s’ never ending stream of ‘Horrid Histories’ or ‘Alf’s Colonialism’ whatever it is all the flowers are disappearing.
Andy Ellis aka Franchise Fanny & Hatey McH’s (formerly John Main) snide comments/misinformation come up a lot as reason why folk no longer post.
There is also the problem of a never ending series of ‘English Unionist’ flame baiters.
Maybe none of the above are reason why ‘all the flower are going from BTL’ and people are just generally fed-up with politics which all just seem hopeless at the moment.
Ruby
I’ve always had that problem with archive. The link stops working after a while & I have to hunt for a new one. I don’t bother with it now cause it’s more hassle than it’s worth to only read dross behind a paywall.
Bear in mind, there was a separate Gaza protest march ending there at the same time. Thats where most of that “crowd” came from.
” It wasn’t only independence on the agenda.
Pro-Palestine activists also turned out in their thousands, with most of the marchers chanting for both issues side by side, waving both Palestinian and Scottish flags. Both campaigns completely enveloped each other. Welcomed each other.”
————————————————–
How The National reports the event.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/24267484.scottish-independence-march-glasgow-like-crowd/
Maybe the SNP can of worms is about to burst open wide, here’s hoping it does.
“First Minister Humza Yousaf is braced for detectives to press more charges in the fraud investigation into SNP finances.
Nicola Sturgeon’s husband and former chief executive Peter Murrell was charged with embezzlement last week.
And now the senior leadership of the party are readying themselves for further police activity amid a crisis week for the SNP which has left their government coalition with the Scottish Greens under threat.
A source told the Sunday Mail: “More charges are expected, this is a wide ranging inquiry and there are a number of potential offences alleged to be involved.
“There is definitely not a feeling that this is the end of it.””
Morning Geri
Thank you so much for your response it’s much appreciated.
Another reason why people no longer post here might be because they feel they are being ignored in favour of a discussion (pissing contest) about wars in foreign places and other favourite pissing contest topics. ie ‘Franchise Fannying’.
Vivian O’Blivion 9:17
Exactly right. They have their finger in every election & appointment. Either through force or clandestine means. In every single country.
Obama interference in indyref all makes perfect sense now. Same with all the leeches who arrived from nowhere for GE2015.
Best of both worlds unionists is the only thing that will save the SNP. We seen during Ash Regan’s leadership bid them all up in arms over proposals for a plebasite. Turns out it’s yoons that vote for them safe in the knowledge of an indyref were to happen they’d still vote no.
Ruby
It’s all relevant to Indy.
If the man from del Monte, & his sidekick, says no – it doesn’t happen.
& We’re all wasting our time here.
SNP is deid. We all know they are already & have been completely captured from at least 2016..
Ruby
I’m off too LOL
My little contribution maybe went towards legal advice on censorship.
..only to find my posts awaiting moderation.
Isn’t it ironic dontcha think? Lol
Tally ho!
@Geri 21 April, 2024 at 10:49 am
“yer not even indy”
Who rattled your cage, eh?
How would you know whether I’m Indy or not? You don’t read, you don’t understand, you are interested only in shouting down anything you wouldn’t have written yourself.
I’m for Indy when Indy persuasively shows it will be better for Scotland and us Scots. And that doesn’t just mean money (although that would obviously help – “It’s Scotland’s Oil” and the “Big Renewables Steal” seem to be very much about money to me).
When Indy stands for competence, integrity, accountability, and open democratic processes, then I’m for it. As long as good and decent people are working towards those ends, then I’m for it.
Right now though, as we all so clearly see, there’s little competence, integrity, accountability and open democracy. Just as the good and decent people are thin on the ground. We have crims, pervs and reality-denying fantasists instead.
And that has to be laid squarely at the feet of malign actors like yourself. A country gets the leaders it deserves. You need to step forwards, hang your head and with humility say “mea culpa”.
You need to ditch your knee-jerk tribalism. You need to get over your reflexive name calling. You need to accept that Indy is bigger than your pet peeves. You need to realise Scotland contains 5.5 million people, and only a few think like you do.
You need to read the writing on the wall. Ten years of doing things your way has advanced Indy support not one percentage point.
It’s time for a different approach. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Morning Effijy
Very interesting link. That was part of the evidence he gave at the ‘Holyrood Enguiry’ His performance on that day was very impressive. I was riveted for the whole three hours.
I found the ‘plinky plonky music’ a bit annoying. I wonder why people add music. Could it be something to do with copyright?
However it’s a very good video. Well done to the person for highlighting this section of his evidence.
Ruby @10:57am
> What is causing people to leave?
This is not unique to Wings. You can see it on other sites that deal with other, current, hot-button topics as well. I think it’s general comment fatigue rather than people losing interest in the articles posted. It’s simply not worth the effort to scroll though all the uninnaresting drivel looking for the people that are informed and insightful – of which there are quite a few here.
What might be specific to Wings however is that the list of topics covered in the comments is rather repetitive, for the simple reason that there’s very little new that can be said. All the problems faced are essentially generational. The UK is coming apart at the seams, but the process of decay is slow. Consequently there’s no one event or thing that can provide a catalyst for change.
What might reinvigorate things is the potential rise of the independents. Perhaps the Rev. has a better perspective on whether this is just a blip or the first signs of the traditional political parties and even political parties themselves getting the boot and being replaced by more competent people rolling their sleeves up and trying to fix things.
Mac @ 8:44 am
“Everything they do is inherently divisive. That is the only constant. Divisive.”
Yes, ‘Divide and Rule’ is a fundamental part of an oppressive colonial system because it prevents unity of the people:
“As the oppressor minority subordinates and dominates the majority, it must divide it and keep it divided in order to remain in power” (Freire).
The independence leaders must therefore “seek unity with the oppressed in order to achieve liberation”. But the SNP leaders approach is the opposite, it is always to divide, never to unify; which means they work only to maintain oppression and authoritarianism.
I have been wondering where Angus Robertson has gone. As the man who did so much to remove democracy from the SNP and lay the groundwork which allowed the clique around the Murrells to seize control, he has been conspicuous by his absence and silence recently.
“An estimated 2000 people attended the first independence march of 2024”
“It wasn’t only independence on the agenda. Pro-Palestine activists also turned out in their thousands, with most of the marchers chanting for both issues side by side”
“When asked how they felt seeing the Palestine campaigners beside independence campaigners, they simply said: “Yes.””
It’s not exactly clear, but the language suggests more turned out for Palestine than did for Scotland.
How long before they start digging the bunkers? Anybody want to volunteer to be a human shield?
I won’t be supporting this kind of crap any time soon.
When you look at the absolute catastrophe the leaders of Palestine have brought down on the heads of ordinary Palestinians and then observe the putative leaders of Scotland marching down the same route – words can’t do it justice.
Where you going?
The moderation malarky is totally bonkers.
Don’t go rushing off on the huff just because you got modded for something you could have avoided.
I did tell you which words to avoid.
@Stuart MacKay says: 21 April, 2024 at 11:37 am
“What might reinvigorate things is the potential rise of the independents. Perhaps the Rev. has a better perspective on whether this is just a blip or the first signs of the traditional political parties and even political parties themselves getting the boot and being replaced by more competent people rolling their sleeves up and trying to fix things”
That is certainly the case all over Europe. It will almost certainly happen here in Scotland. Eventually.
I predict May 2026. Alas, the SNP/Greens plan a lot of wrecking over the next 2 years.
None of you have ever seen a political party collapse like this.
McKenna pointed out in his latest article that “Mr Murrell’s wife, Nicola Sturgeon and former party treasurer, Colin Beattie remained under investigation following their arrests – and subsequent release – last April.”
The CASS report has thrown their flagship gender policies into total chaos and disrepute, their Hate Crime Laws have resulted in worldwide ridicule and scorn, and now their Green goals have been ditched because they know they were unachievable and ridiculous.
On top of all that, the Salmond Court case and other investigations are looming like dark clouds over a gallows.
I’ve got to assume that ‘survival’ has replaced ‘recovery’ as a goal for the SNP. I don’t rate their chances. If this was a company on the stock market, their share value would be down 95% this week alone.
History will tell that they promoted Humza to captain just before the ship was expected to sink. Will it tell that he chose to go down with the ship or will he fight his way onto the lifeboats with the other scoundrels?
“Women and children first?”
“Not on this ship, mate, definitely not on this ship…”
Geri @ 11:13
We have a FM, a Cabinet Minister & a Junior Minister who are State Dept, IVLP alumni.
For completion we should remember that wee Pat Harvie is also IVLP.
Of the seven politicians inducted into the IVLP (Yousaf, Harvie, Gilruth, Crawley, P. Grady, R. Thompson & Dugdale) only Yousaf is heterosexual.
Almost as if someone is working off a playbook.
Mac: “The grubby Murrells. Scotland’s poundland Ceausescus.”
In which case their Timi?oara Moment may be at hand, after which the whole rotten house of cards quickly collapsed.
I’m sure the green light will finally be given to the MSM to pull the rug out from under them and further damage the SNP in the run up to the GE.
It could well be that Scots, even many nationalists, prefer to clutch the security blanket of the British state, the SNP is certainly reluctant to let go.
The world outside is, according to media hype, becoming more and more threatening.
Nothing controls the masses better than a good dose of fear, the cheapest fix around.
Who needs A.I?
‘uninnaresting drivel’ gets complained about a lot.
That could give the impression that only highly educated folk with PHDs should be posting here or maybe you mean the ‘uninnaresting drivel’ is being posted by highly educated folk with a PHD.
Everytime I see complaints about ‘uninnaresting drivel’ I reckon the person is talking about my posts. I suspect a lot of people feel the same so then decide not to bother posting.
Had you said ‘uninnarestin’ drivel’ I would have thought differently.
I don’t know if what Geri says about us wasting our time here is true or not.
It is possibly true but then would it be any different if instead we wasted our time watching some ‘uninnaresting drivel’ on TV.
The flowers of Scotland, realising the futility of engaging with the
‘Scottish Government’ in their quest for liberation, have withdrawn from the faux constitutional battle waged against Westminster by the SNP and are re-grouping in the wings getting ready for the real one.
Coming back here after quite some time … I wonder if the Greens have scored a total own-goal against the independence movement, by insisting on a whole lot of policies, e.g. on trans issues, which were politically poisonous to the SNP, and as a result to the independence movement as a whole.
The SNP strategy was, “prove to the voting public that we can run Scotland effectively, and that will help the case for independence”. Now that it has been shown that they can’t run Scotland at all – no thanks to Patrick Harvie … anyway, thoughts or feedback?
Hobbit @ 12.54
I haven’t felt that the devolved administration, with or without Greens with their student politics, have had either the interest or ability to demonstrate competence in “running Scotland” since 2014.
Mr Salmond showed conclusively, my view, that in some 7 years of sound governance his administrations (including minority) could manage Scotland so very adequately that support for independence rose from around 29% to nigh on winning a referendum to leave the Union. (Please can we avoid rerunning the debate around “were we robbed by voter fraud” and “we’re not in a union).
So, in my world, Hobster, the now discredited SNP did in fact demonstrate that given competent, honest and dedicated executives we can indeed run an optomistic, efficient and caring administration.
In contrast to yesterday’s flob in Glasgow, there were thousanda of potheada i;;egally spliffing in Hyde Park yesterday. You should try it in George’s Square sometime.
Agent x
Ignored says:
21 April, 2024 at 11:03 am
How The National reports the event…
Whose position are you trying to support Agent x? You’re quoting the National when the National is widely derided as a Sturgeon / SNP fanzine, viciously anti ALBA, and employing the sanctimonious likes of Riddoch and Kavaner.
There’s even a comment in your link from McIntyre Kemp… “ . They were aided in this by certain parts of the indy movement lying about BiS not being party neutral for their own political gain”.
BiS is party neutral??? Oh do fk off, and stop treating people like idiots. Nobody was vexed by Party neutrality, nevermind lying about it. The whole debacle was the nasty and orchestrated attempt to undermine and seize the marching initiative from AUOB and that what stuck in everybody’s craw. What a gaslighting wee bas&#%rd.
Ruby @ 12:35 pm
“the impression that only highly educated folk with PHDs”
Based on personal experience as a PhD supervisor, and analysis of graduation announcements, probably less than 10% of the PhD’s awarded in Scotland’s universities today go to Scottish students. Which suggests that you are unlikely to meet very many Scots who have a PhD, nor many Scots who have reached senior academic levels:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/01/17/the-colonisation-of-scotlands-universities/
Of course Sven.
Competency, honesty and dedication.
To which I would add focus (on the job in hand), realism and courage.
100 Scots with these qualities will turn this around in a year.
I’m not accepting this nation of 5.5 million plus is lacking the 100 needed. So where are they?
And where’s our charismatic, eloquent leader that we can all get behind?
From the lyrical to the logical I weave my weary path.
But what is logic?
Logic at its core is truth and logical argument seeks to uncover truth. Fallacies are errors in those logical arguments.
The prime fallacy underlying the premise the Scots would be worse-off in 2024 if Scotland had become an independent nation in 2014 is called the Fallacy of Pre-determined Outcome (I mentioned it in a comment on the previous thread).
A fallacy isn’t a lie, but at the same time it isn’t the truth either – it’s a mistake, an error in one’s thinking that leads to a false conclusion. A conclusion which might look like truth but is flawed by faulty reasoning – a logical fallacy.
Other fallacies routinely exhibited in the argument over Scotland’s independence include The fallacy of False Equivalence (e.g. the comparing of similarities between apples and oranges to argue they are one and the same) and the Fallacy of Appeal to Probability.
The ‘appeal to probability’ is again neatly summarised by Wikipedia:
Those who use events occurring on one temporal path to support their claim that Scotland would be worse-off as independent on a divergent temporal path – forked temporal pathways for which it is impossible to establish a relationship between the causal effects in each separated as they are by an infinity of variables and not least because one path has been realised and the other exists only in imagination (as far as we know) – argue from a flawed premise.
In other words the future of the path not taken cannot be determined in hindsight by events on the path that was taken.
But there are more serious flaws in the reasoning behind the premise that Scotland is better-off in union with England that prove the argument the Scots would be far, far, far, far better-off dissolving the union and going their own way in the world…
@ Hobbit at 12.54pm: Right from the start of her leadership of the SNP, media commentators were saying that Sturgeon was ‘cautious’ on independence. It’s obvious now that Sturgeon and her acolytes never had any intention of leading Scotland to independence, and in fact they did everything to prevent progress towards that goal and to create division amongst the independence movement. Sturgeon also instituted all the gender ideology and woke garbage long before the Greens were in any position to influence the situation. The Greens are undoubtedly toxic, but they would never have had the power and influence they’ve had if the SNP hadn’t already abandoned independence and been infiltrated by toxic ideology.
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
Geri.
You know what I am going to speak about before I start…..It is the glitches in the-Union-make up.
It may be considered a repetition conversation by unionist and warmongers and by the odd one or two wanting EU Control over Scotland, and they are welcome to Scroll on by my Comments.
Alf, your belief that Scotland is a Colony does have roots,
Breeks your frustration on how the Scottish Claim of Right is ignored down South has a reasonable answer too,
Geri, keep the faith, and all those others who read but are often intimidated of of Wings For Commenting,
The Scottish “Claim of Right” = the English “Bill of Rights”
in the Great- Britain Constitution.
NO IT DOES NOT and the Scottish Claim of Right can be ignored by Westminster parliament as much as it likes,
The Scottish parliament’s 1689 “Claim of Right” ensures that the Scottish people are Sovereign, in Scotland,
The parliament of England’s the 1689 “Bill of Rights” diverts Sovereignty from the people to the Parliament of England,
The parliament of England also passed the “Act of Settlement” over the Crown Succession to England.
All Prior to a parliamentary union or the claims of one United kingdom in the treaty of union.
The Uk legislation . Gov UK. States that the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement are crucial to the Constitution of England and is still legally in force today.
The UK parliament States it is Sovereign Parliament!
However if the Westminster / UK parliament is Sovereign, in claiming it derives its very Sovereignty from the “bill of rights” and the “act of Settlement ” of the old previous parliament of England “acts” – and not from Great- Britain parliament,
And the “Crown” sits/ resides in Westminster parliament to give it its aquired Sovereignty of parliament,
The both the bill of right and Act of settlement, makes the “Crown sitting in Westminster parliament” the Crown of England,
The “Crown of Scotland” became redundant, indeed it is has not been used in the Coronations of any of the Monarch of Britain since Charles the second, was Crowned in Scotland.
The Royal College, London, 2023 states the following that takes place in Scotland “after” the coronations in England as thus, Quote,
“Not Quite a Coronation” , Not Quite a investiture.
Watching televised replays of Queen Elizabeth and her Son Charles coming to Scotland afterwards and being ( presented) with the Crown of Scotland and Honor’s of Scotland was a glitch in the Matrix of one United Kingdom of Great- Britain, because the Scottish crown never left Scotland and was never placed on the head of a new monarch,
All dictionaries interpretation of the word ( Presented ) =
To be Offered,
To Be handed Over,
To give as a gift,
To donate,
To grant,
To dispense.
To award,
To furnish,
To extend,
To put at ones disposal, To (present) an Item or document, you are formally offering to give it to them,
The Crown of Scotland and the Scottish Honour’s are not part of the official ceremony of Coronation that takes place in England at Westminster Abbey,
They do not sit or reside within Westminster parliament to lend it Sovereignty of Scotland when opening Westminster parliament,
Nor is it used to give Royal assent to the laws of Britain in the Westminster parliament.
It is the Crown of England in English law under the English parliament Acts, the Bill of right and the Act of Settlement.
That makes Sovereignty of Westminster parliament the parliament of England. And NOT a united kingdom parliament of Great Britain,
If the Coronation of the monarchs down south included the Scottish Crown on the head of the kings or queens of England, Westminster parliament would no longer be Sovereign.
But UK parliament legislation claims that the Bill of Rights and the act of Settlement are still in Force today as part of Englands Constitution and gives its Sovereignty to Westminster parliament of….. England.
Michael Laing, Sven – thanks for your feedback, appreciated.
How many were WHITE?
I actually went down to see what was going on. It was well, a bit sad. Like many here I’d been at the rallies with tens of thousands but this just hardcore SNP supporters trying to convince each other that ‘indy is within our reach’ when in fact, it’s probably the furtherest from our reach in the last 30 years.
It was clearly an SNP/Green rally. There was no plan or idea how to further the cause of independence, or any attempts or rhetoric to try to bring indy supporters under one umbrella or even just an attempt to move on. It was basically ‘vote for us and we’ll do, err, something’.
I left when it became too sad to listen to how awful things have become, though I did see Ross Greer trying his ‘I AM RADICAL’ routine which was funny. It’s now entirely a grift but there’s people there yesterday who genuinelly want independence & still cling onto the hope the SNP want it, or indeed, that independence is still a viable political proposition right now. Independence is something Scotland should have but right now a mix of poor goverment from the SNP, a recession, and people generally being very, very tired of lying and deceitful politicians (though not all, some elected officials do a good job) that right now, there may be general support for Indy but there’s no rush for it.
And now we’ve got Patrick Harvie science denier, but he’ll still cling onto the Bute House Agreement as those ministerial salaries and expenses are just too much to give away, as is the power he has over Yousaf who is too weak to run a minority government. I still feel that a mix of the Sturgeon scandal, incompetence and the fallout over gender ideology (especially when the lawsuits and potential police investigations start piling up) will bring the SNP down.
Hatey McHateface @ 13.44.
My previous post was really addressed to my thoughts on Hobster’s comment, rather than attempting to posit how we may progress from here.
My (open to change) view is that independents under a loose umbrella of like minded folk ( got to make sure we gain the advantage afforded by the List vote, although I can envisage a fair bit of haggling and horse trading by virtue of the fact Blair & Dewar landed us with a closed list version of D’Hondt ) would be an attainable way forward.
I suspect that any future leader of the “amalgamated” independence movement will be a new face entirely to many of us. How many folk knew of Jimmie Reid prior to the sit in ?
Seems to me that too many of us are completely disillusioned with professional, career politicians to put much faith in another of the same rising up.
Once the enthusiasm and optimism of the 2014 grassroots movement is recaptured I doubt not that suitable personalities (I care not if male or female) will present themselves. Ideally free of the taint of political careerism.
Also, this ‘Believe in Scotland’ line is pure Scottish exceptionalism on a par with Make America Great Again or ‘taking back control’. It’s suggesting the only barrier to independence is that people don’t ‘believe in Scotland’ hard enough.
I’m not a supporter of independence because I think Scotland is exceptional, or it should be for the Scottish born only, or we’re better than anyone. I want independence because as a small country, we have the same potential as any other small country. Empty slogans that pander to feelings isn’t an argument for independence. It’s a grift pandering to feelings and what’s amazing is the people running it are the sort of people who don’t see what they’re doing as they’re so convinced of their own righteousness.
How we’ve come from a vision of an inclusive, tolerant Scotland not based in ethnic nationalism or exceptionalism to exceptionalism, ethnic nationalism and Trumpian politics in a decade is extraordinary.
Northcode;
“Those who use events occurring on one temporal path to support their claim that Scotland would be worse-off as independent on a divergent temporal path – forked temporal pathways for which it is impossible to establish a relationship between the causal effects in each separated as they are by an infinity of variables and not least because one path has been realised and the other exists only in imagination (as far as we know) – argue from a flawed premise.
In other words the future of the path not taken cannot be determined in hindsight by events on the path that was taken.”
Does that mean I can’t suppose I’d be better off right now if I hadn’t read that?
Seems to me that too many of us are completely disillusioned with professional, career politicians to put much faith in another of the same rising up.
One of the things I find striking is that 2014 promised a new generation of young people informed and engaged in politics. Signs were that we’d have the bold new generation that’d even if we lost the referendum, that’d carry us to a good devolved goverment at least and maybe a second referendum in most of our lifetimes.
Instead we got a generation of young activists/career politicians who aren’t bothered with independence or even making things better for the majority. They’re either completely out their depth as we’ve seen far too often, or they’re there to purely push single issues like the Trans agenda, or they’re just there to make themselves comfy. See a number of SNP MPs who’ve become very comfy with a London lifestyle and as Stu’s said, I do seriously think in a year or two we’ll see SNP representation in the Lords.
Of course that’s not writing off all young people. There’s plenty out there who do care, are informed and do want things to be better but they’re not in mainstream Scottish politics. All the people who think and act like adults are either thrown out of Scottish politics and culture or they’re been sidelined.
Breeks,
Alf Baird.
Englands old Westminster parliament, the “House of Lords” was never Dissolved and the same members were transferred without elections into the rebranded English parliament new name of the Westminster Parliament of Great Britain,
Under the English acts, the Act of Settlement and the Bill of rights act, The monarch of England and the parliament of England then placed the 1707 Parliament Scotland under Dissolution along with its Scottish parliament members as representative of its Constituents, from the 1707 treaty of parliamentary union
Breeks,
The Parliament of England with its English Acts of Parliament still in force over Westminster parliament and the monarch of England can now ignore the “Scottish Claim of Right” .
Alf Baird.
Under the Hoax treaty of parliamentary union of two parliaments that never proceeded past 1707, and under the hoax that two Crowns were joined and united into one united kingdom of Great-Britain, in which both never proceeded past 1707.
Scotland under the falsehood of “one united kingdom” and falsehood of “one united parliament” of Great- Britain is without doubt a Colony of Englands old parliament of England Acts and laws, that are still in force today
I didn’t attend this event because I wasn’t stupid enough to believe
that I would hear anything different from the continuity candidate that I
haven’t already heard from the previous FM Nicola Sturgeon. After
listening to his speech I achieved two things the SNP hasn’t achieved I
help the environment by not using my car or public transport and the
cost of living by saving my own money not attending.
I have no idea who he’s calling friends because its now evident that the
SNP isn’t any friend to the Indy movement, its now just a matter of time
before the SNP is totally finished as a party and personally it’ll be
good for Scotland and the Indy movement.
Humza will continue to destroy the SNP and the police will bring more charges for sure.
It was amazing to see after Humza’s speech how everyone left the event straight away not knowing how or when Independence will be achieved or delivered. Same old party line being played at every party or event and the SNP has become the party who cries wolf on Indy.
Thank god I not being taken in by this party anymore and I’ve seen the light.
What a nightmare to sign in just to comment
Alf Baird explains that under colonial rule indigenous peoples become reluctant nationalists in their desperate attempts at self-preservation.
Which to my mind means those peoples whose existence is under attack adopt a morally legitimate form of nationalism – a form of nationalism that might be more accurately described as self-defence.
My apologies, Alf, if I’ve misinterpreted your writings.
Now that Sir Kneel Starmer has announced that Labour is the party of English patriotism, is puir wee Caledonia going to be faced with a choice between Scotnaz and English Morris Dancers?
P.S. I see “Sir” Kneel still claims a proletarian background even though his father owned and managed the Oxted Tool Company. What a pity he’s ashamed of his Dad; the old boy probably did the best he could, coping with four children and a grievously ill wife. There’s every chance Pa Starmer would have made a better PM than his slippery son will.
“Does that mean I can’t suppose I’d be better off right now if I hadn’t read that?”
Correct.
The Crown of Scotland did not unite with the Crown of England and we should not be trying to offer/ present it to the Crown of England in this present day,
They will never allow themselves to be under the Crown of Scotland because the monarch of England and the Westminster parliament of England would both loose their Sovereignty of England.
John C: “How we’ve come from a vision of an inclusive, tolerant Scotland not based in ethnic nationalism or exceptionalism to exceptionalism, ethnic nationalism and Trumpian politics in a decade is extraordinary.”
But we haven’t. The “believe” slogan shouldn’t be taken out of context. It’s the sort of thing you see written on those donations cans people stick in your face when they want cash; the more money you give, the more you believe…
The argument that ‘we who live here ought to manage and control our own lives’ is still the best and I would say only water-holding argument there is for independence. I’m probably more flexible than most on the question of how long someone should live here before they get to vote, but that isn’t pandering to (or even an acknowledgment of) the sort of ethnic arguments we occasionally see.
None of this should distract us from the historical collapse of the SNP we are watching right now. There are a few things that will need to be addressed and settled down the line, but I see no sense in getting embroiled in any of that until the ashes of the SNP have been dampened and have stopped smouldering.
Rumours suggest Tuesday could be another fun-packed day for Mr and Mrs Murrell.
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
Why do you suppose that when Scotland tries to persuade England to accept the Scottish Crown, they do not, instead the Monarch of England never excepts this offer, and wistfully leaves the Scottish crown resting on its cushion, ?
‘Believe in Scotland’ is an odd slogan. ‘Believe in Britain’ could be just as meaningful(less). But we don’t need to believe in either as they exist in material reality so can no more ‘believe’ in Scotland than I can in a potato.
Slogans are an easy target of course but it is indicative of a pretty vapid mindset if that is all they’ve got.
But it is easy to complain so begs the question of what you could have instead:
‘Freedom, Now!’
‘An Independent Scotland for an Independent People’
‘We Decide, We Abide: Scotland’s Future in Our Hands’
‘Batter the Colonial Yoke! Autonomy for Alba!’
‘Get to F**k Youse English C**ts
@Hatuey
My apologies, Hatuey. I didn’t intend my response to come across as curt. I should have added that your wit gave me cause for a wee chuckle – very good.
Did Rome function better as a republic or empire?
The Republic had many flaws including the fact that it was based on inheritance, it had no genuine voice for the lower class, women, or slaves, and it was not strong enough to govern effectively and keep its citizens happy during endless wars.
Ancient Rome only truly became powerful when it became an empire.
Mac
Ideally I’d like to wear one sitting in the public gallery at her criminal trial alongside Motorhome Murrell, Leslie Evans and Woman H.
If it’s the t-shirt that says “I’am with Nicole” you might just end up sitting beside her !
BTW They’re still on sale on Amazon at a SNiP for £14.99 !
@Alf Baird at 1.41
How would you classify Scottish students who have obtained PhDs from universities outwith Scotland? I’ve met plenty of Scots with PhDs, because I worked with them for decades. I don’t think your conclusion follows from your premise.
James Che
Why do you suppose that when Scotland tries to persuade England to accept the Scottish Crown, they do not, instead the Monarch of England never excepts this offer, and wistfully leaves the Scottish crown resting on its cushion, ?
Even Churchill knew….
Geri,
Don’t take the moderation personally. Unless all your comments go to moderation it will be because you used a specific word that triggers it.
Or you made a typo in your email address or user name. A favourite fuck of mine.
If it does go into moderation if you click ‘back’ the comment will reappear in the comment box so you don’t lose it. Then if you modify any suspect banned words it will nearly always go through. I guarantee you it will be nothing personal. Just the modbot.
Off topic is generally not an issue. Endless personal comments and abuse is what seems to get you into pre-moderation.
When the Scottish Crown does not lend its Sovereignty to the parliament in England,
When they and there monarch Placed the Scottish parliament under dissolution from the treaty of union in 1707 in England,
When the old parliament of England continued through the House of Lords,
It no longer matters in Scotland if A franchise is needed for Scotlands independence, or for the discussion of who would get to vote in Scotland,
And as a aside it would not matter who would get to vote on the topic in England, Wales, Ireland or Anywhere else for that matter.
If our Crowns, ( which appears to be correct) are not united at all to make one United Kingdom,
And
if our parliaments never joined each other ( which appears to be correct) to make one united parliament of Great- Britain because the Scottish parliament was dissolved from the treaty, in and by England 1707.
The discussion takes an entirely different path, for Scotland and England.
Scotland would acknowledge it Sovereign nation for the first time in over three hundred years,
But England could also act as a Sovereign Nation once again, and could make new choices for their government,
perhaps stepping away from EU laws the green ideology that is ruining their lives and fuel poverty and away from Ulez schemes, gender Ideology,
Scotland and Englands people could thrive and both have governments that are more accountable to the people in their countries, have new control over their own borders, re-structure their NHS’s, improve Councils,
Although Scotland would benefit being a independent Country,, It is not just Scotland that would benefit with this reset button, England would to,
It is the politicians and leaders of the global world that are the benficeries of England and Scotland staying as Great- Britain,
Not you or I,
Politicians cause Chaos for a reason,
The people need to focus to Save their own Countries, and way of life.
Worth a read….
https://robinmcalpine.org/nic-transit-gloria-mundi/
James Barr Gardner.
At the Roman Empire Collapsed due to over reaching its bounderies, constant wars and finances,
A very similar position that the dying dregs of the old British Empire is in today,
Believe in Scotland (barely 2 years old, Companies House) may fool a lot of folk !
Perhaps a new treaty between Scotland and England could be envisaged, ” A peace Treaty” , that promises each other will Not interfere with each trade, politics Laws or set war against each other Countries in any way or manner.
That Scotlands and England land and sea borders be defined more accurately to what they once were pre Hoax treaty of Union,
The every day people of England and Scotland did not create the faux treaty of union, it was the politicians whom wanted to line their pockets to benefit themselves as usual,
This is still the case today to maintain the hoax, to keep wars going, to cause division of peoples, by playing both sides
Whose same politicians take a pretend sides for the sake of well oiled salaries employment from the public purse of you and I,
But they sit with their feet under the same table to eat the same meals, to drink at the same establishments at the same meetings,
How many would be there if politicians employment had to work under the earning rule of minimum Wage income?
I think a lot of new people BTL make the mistake of thinking their comments are being censored when it is just the weird collection of words that trigger automatic moderation. If you don’t know better it is very easy to take it personally as it is very hard to see why a particular comment goes in moderation. I’ve seen a few folk get pissed off and take it personally and flounce.
“Perhaps a new treaty between Scotland and England could be envisaged, ” A peace Treaty” , that promises each other will Not interfere with each trade, politics Laws or set war against each other Countries in any way or manner.
That Scotlands and England land and sea borders be defined more accurately to what they once were pre Hoax treaty of Union,”
James Che.
When we eventually do ditch this bucket of shit union, on the surface it will appear as though there will be the hands of friendship between the nations, but don’t be fooled, underneath this false facade the English government and it security service will be attempting to undermine Scotland on every level, England can’t help it it been doing it other nations for centuries.
More importantly is that England just cannot afford to let Scotland go, every dirty trick in their play book will be used to snuff out the dissolving of this ball and chain union from our end.
crazycat @ 3:40 pm
“I’ve met plenty of Scots with PhDs…”
Aye, sure you have, but you are unable to show any evidence of that, are you? I suppose you can point to a Scottish Government grant scheme supporting hundreds of Scots to undertake PhD research studies on matters of importance to Scotland? Or perhaps not.
Here’s just one illustration of the reality in today’s ‘Scottish’ universities, and there are many, many more:
https://www.strath.ac.uk/staff/?department=navalarchitectureoceanandmarineengineering
Mac @4.34
Aye, I flounced… when comments don’t appear and polite requests for explanation go ignored what other option is there? How many others one wonders?
Vestas
Ignored
says:
21 April, 2024 at 3:56 pm
Worth a read….
Read it. I don’t agree with McAlpine’s stance on everything but I respect him as a person in so far as I can gauge that without knowing the boy. He wants the best for his country and the Scottish people and that is what his work is about. That sounds like a basic requirement of anyone involved in public policy development or anyone at all actually. Unfortunately, in this era that is far, far from the truth. I think I understand his reluctance to go too deep into the radical social liberalism that has attached itself to good old Thatcher/Reagan/Blair neoliberalism because it is pervasive and makes you an easy target for the authoritarians who get to wield the bigot brush. I think he has been stung by that a few times. Sanity will eventually prevail but only when they political class as it is currently constituted retires having eaten its fill or is replaced.
I am keen for his his prediction about the Sturgeon era being over hold true. Then we have a chance to recover.
Northcode @ 2:45 pm
“those peoples whose existence is under attack adopt a morally legitimate form of nationalism – a form of nationalism that might be more accurately described as self-defence.”
Yes, this is how postcolonial theory depicts the matter. A colonized people are subject to ‘aggressive nationalism’ by another national culture/group which exploits them, plunders their resources, and destroys their culture. In response the colonized group, in order not to ‘perish’, must adopt a form of ‘defensive nationalism’ to liberate themselves, and to reclaim their sovereignty.
Hence all colonized peoples according to the UN and international law ‘have a right to self-determination’, the main purpose of which has always been ‘decolonization’, i.e. to remove an oppressor.
@Sven 2/13pm
Once the enthusiasm and optimism of the 2014 grassroots movement is recaptured I doubt not that suitable personalities (I care not if male or female) will present themselves. Ideally free of the taint of political careerism.
Ah hae ma doots! Whilst I don’t always (or indeed often) agree with Hatey McHateface’s views, he does have a point.
Given the ongoing cluster búrach that is current Scottish politics, I’m not sure there are grounds for much optimism that these untainted individuals will simply “present themselves”!
Where are they now? What are they doing if they aren’t already involved in one or another political party? Are they currently apolitical folks who will suddenly be informed with righteous anger at the pitiable state of our politics and descend fully formed to save us from ourselves?
Seems a tad over optimistic to me.
In reality it seems the best we can hope for is that the SNP is either functionally eradicated as an electoral force, or at the very least subject to a thorough change by folk like Joanna Cherry and folk like her cleaning out the Augean stables (for the record I think that’s pretty unlikely, but not impossible).
Then we need the few remaining adults in the room with some integrity to lead a “real” revived independence movement which is focused on fighting every election until we win independence and a plebiscitary election: that means that “the movement” as a whole has to agree to either stand one pro-independence candidate per seat or ensure ALL pro independence parties present a united front.
They announce they are standing on a specifically plebiscitary platform and regard a majority of the total of votes for ALL the parties taken together as a mandate for de facto independence: no ifs, or buts, 50% +1 and we declare independence.
Any party or candidate that doesn’t sign up to that should be ostracised by the movement. Any fringe nutters like the Scottish Greens trying to dictate who is and isn’t welcome in side the Tent of Purity should be told in no uncertain terms to get right tae fuck.
I’m not all that keen to meet people with a PhD or the ‘highly educated’ especially not if they consider themselves superior to others.
I probably shouldn’t have mentioned PhDs and just stopped at ‘highly educated’.
The ‘highly educated’ are fine if they have retained their sense of humour and can be very interesting but I am referring to those who believe they are superior because they are ‘highly educated’ and abuse those they consider to be ‘uneducated’ and seem incapable of doing anything other than giving lectures.
‘Constipated’ I think might be the appropriate word.
My police snout – a very senior person – tells me that they are desperate to bring more charges, particularly the organ-grinder.
Unsurprisingly, they are being held back by the Crown Office – who are apparently concerned about the ‘political implications’ of charging a former first minister.
Unflattering comments were also made about the present Chief Constable of Police ‘Scotland’ and her senior team of fellow foreigners.
I need hardly add that no such scruples were in evidence when utterly false charges were levelled at a previous first minister.
Maybe its only credible charges that so concern the hopelessly corrupt Crown Office.
My informant is adamant that the honest cops trying to stiffen the backbone of the CO will get their way.
Here’s hoping!
That made me laugh so much I nearly peed my pants!
“Hopefully, the genuine independence marchers will, in two weeks time, will concentrate on calling for SCOTTISH self-government and nothing else.”
Sorry, the AUOB march is explicitly pro-Palestine too. (And anti-nuclear.)
Andy Ellis @ 17.38.
“Where are they now” indeed.
I’d imagine they are involved elsewhere in more rewarding activities than current Scottish politics, Andy.
Trades Union or community activists; organising and helping with soup kitchens, emptying stanks with Dan and improving the areas where they live. Volunteering with any number of charity organisations, for these are the doers, not the utopian dreamers and keyboard warriors.
They’d be unlikely to think of themselves as the type of political wonks who launch themselves into politics straight from their College or University complete with every (or, indeed, any) political theory under the sun, convinced that they inherently deserve to be kept in a lifestyle of which most workers could only dream and all at public expense.
Sure I’m optimistic, after some 10 years of Ms Sturgeon & her cabal and what they have reduced Scotland to anyone with a claim to some degree of sanity requires optimism and commitment to dare to dream of an independent Scotland.
I did my PhD nearly forty years ago.
When I was a post-doc in one of Scotland’s ancient universities, we were predominantly Scottish -and indeed local to the University. Our supervisors and professors were mainly Scottish too.
That situation sadly no loner exists. When I last visited the department virtually no-one in its was Scottish.
Anyone who thinks that is an accident is delusional.
I should also add that many of us were working-class who benefited from student grants.
It was a science department – not sure what the situation was in ponsy Arts, Humanities and Social ‘sciences’ departments.
And most of us had a sense of humour. I think I still do!
@Alf Baird at 5.06
No, I can’t prove that more than half the people I worked with in academia were Scots with PhDs, or that some of them had acquired those degrees in Scotland and some had acquired them elsewhere. It’s possible that you wouldn’t regard the scientific research we did as being “of importance to Scotland”, either, since its applications were broader.
My points were that working in research* will have meant that a higher percentage of my acquaintances had higher degrees than is the case for most people (so I’ve met lots, which you told Ruby – and maybe meant more generally – she wasn’t likely to do), but that they might have studied elsewhere and still be Scots.
Are you suggesting that Scots should only study in Scotland? You’re still looking at this from the perspective on non-Scots in Scottish institutions but not, as far as I can see, acknowledging that travel in the reverse direction also happens and is perfectly acceptable.
*I’ve retired; perhaps my experience is out of date. As a graduate of Strathclyde University I’m pleased to see that its Naval Architecture department, which was world-renowned when I was there in a different department more than 40 years ago, attracts high-calibre international staff (note: I am explicitly NOT saying that high-calibre Scottish staff don’t exist who could fill those posts instead, but perhaps they want to work abroad for the experience too).
I also think there was no need for the “sure you have” sarc, when you haven’t actually addressed my point.
Compared to the he said, she said, she completely made up nonsense that was the Salmond trial, the case against Sturgeon will have pretty solid invoices, accounts, and audit trails of what did or didn’t happen.
Just get on with it.
I’m afraid I found Robin’s latest article quite wishy-washy. I don’t think it conveys the unprecedented seriousness of the situation that the SNP finds itself in. I suspect he understands the seriousness but doesn’t really want to face or help bring about the likely consequences.
I have no such qualms.
I believe he also neglected to mention one of the investigations that are going on in the background. They’re all pretty serious but the one he missed out is possibly the most serious of all.
The SNP’s crisis isn’t just a political crisis, though. It’s not simply a repeat of the sort of degenerative process that Scottish Labour went through over so many years. This crisis extends beyond politics into areas of criminal law, and that makes it unique.
There is nothing in the history books that comes close to what we are watching right now, and I have no idea how it’s possible for a government as discredited as this to continue. What’s more, things are likely to get worse, probably a lot worse.
And let’s not pretend that the new administration under Humza can plausibly separate itself from the policies and practices of the preceding administration. Humza was a key player in Sturgeon’s circle of love — that’s why they chose him as successor. It’s the same regime.
I can’t predict how it will end. Maybe they will have a close look at Wings’s idea on forcing an election and test it out… one thing I will predict is that this government will not make it to 2026.
Ali Clark
Aye, I flounced… when comments don’t appear and polite requests for explanation go ignored what other option is there? How many others one wonders?
So did I. Three times at least over the lifetime of this blog. No drama just got pissed off with comments randomly going into moderation.
Eventually I asked why and Stuart replied. Turns out I was making careless typos in my email address (as well as randomly hitting banned words that I had no clue even existed).
I would get rid of these banned words at least as an experiment. See if it encourages new comments from new people. They are a real barrier to new commenters who don’t know the score. They are all massively out of date now as well.
Even t-r-a-i-t-o-r getting turned into tractor makes no sense when you have real you know what’s out there.
Alf Baird
I think you provided the wrong link. It took me to ‘The University o’ Awbody an Ther Dugs Bar Scots’ , although I think it was located in Glasgow tae.
James Che @ 3:05 pm
“Why do you suppose that when Scotland tries to persuade England to accept the Scottish Crown, they do not, instead the Monarch of England never excepts this offer, and wistfully leaves the Scottish crown resting on its cushion, ?”
This appears to be little more than a symbolic gesture by an Imperial ruler, or his/her local representative, as occurred in certain colonised kingdoms where peoples were similarly handed a worthless treaty, soon violated. Colonialism is a cruel hoax, though many Scots have yet to figure that out.
Geri an’ Ruby.
Like you I’ve had problems with Archive over the last few months. It doesn’t matter which version or links from others, nothing appears.
Same with Nitter.net for X and my internet security doesn’t like it either. 🙁
My own observations on improving BTL is that rarely is it an off topic a problem. This is a narrow focus blog and at times there is just not much to discuss within that narrow focus.
Plus we are living through extraordinary times, a genocide and ethnic cleansing.
We are also teetering on the brink of WW3.
So I find the problem is not off topic comments. Most of them are very interesting.
The problem is the people who live on here. Who make dozens of bitchy personal comments, who pollute every article, rain or shine, not discussing any subject, on nor off topic, but instead directed at other commenters. These are the people dragging BTL down IMHO.
I would happily limit the number of comments to five per commenter per article. That would improve things a lot IMHO but I am not seriously suggesting it.
Invariably quality suffers when you go mental on quantity. Less is more.
crazycat @ 6:06 pm
“No, I can’t prove that more than half the people I worked with in academia were Scots with PhDs”
Thought not.
The ‘Scottish’ University department academic staff link I sent you showed some 100 academic staff, half of whom are researchers, many doing PhD’s, and virtually none of whom are Scottish.
@Mac 6:50
Seeing as how you brought it up … how goes the world’s slowest and least efficient genocide?
Palestinian death toll at 34000+ now. Palestinian births typically running at 60000+ each year. I think most people can crunch the numbers, but do let me know if you need help.
Those true genociders of history must be birling in their unmarked graves, at your continued attempts to bring their speciality into disrepute. There’s a serious point to be made too. Your exaggerated hijacking of a desperate situation to push your personal agenda undermines support from people when they find out the true facts.
Facts are your real friends, Mac, not lies.
You’re looking to improve Wings BTL. Try fact checking your posts and see if things get better.
The truth shall set you free.
Republicofscotland,
Indeed Scotland would have to be wary of the hands of friendship from the parliament and Crown of England,
Scotland having been taken in and fooled by Deceit for the last three hundred years, it was a very hard and sharp lesson to take on trust, and we have been exceedingly naive in the past,
We never even questioned the fabled truths of Westminster parliaments Sovereignty and those Acts of the parliament of England being England acts of the parliament of Great Britains and Constitution still in force today,
We never questioned why the Scottish Crown has been redundant for the past three hundred years either,
In my mind it might simply imply why the UN and the EU never intervened during Brexit and with the “right to self determination programme in Scotlands interest at heart, as it would have rocked the Constitutional makeup and position of the UK with other EU treaties and with Nato, WEF and the WHO,
Extremely big players that would have an a self interest in Scotland remaining under a vassal state of Colonialism to Englands parliament and Monarch,
Northcode @ 6:40 pm
“‘The University o’ Awbody an Ther Dugs Bar Scots’ , although I think it was located in Glasgow tae.”
Indeed so. And there appears to be a close correlation between teaching high level ship design courses mainly to Norwegians, Turks, Greeks, Koreans and Chinese and the growth of shipbuilding in these nations. On the other hand, not teaching such a discipline to any Scottish students means we cannae even build a ferry here – so we order in Turkey etc.
Similar correlations might be seen in medicine, dentistry, etc, hence Scotland’s shortage of skills in key areas results in then a ‘need’ to import such skills; i.e. because our institutions no longer teach such skills tae oor ain fowk, but instead to others.
Hatuey says:
“The CASS report has thrown their flagship gender policies into total chaos and disrepute, their Hate Crime Laws have resulted in worldwide ridicule and scorn, and now their Green goals have been ditched because they know they were unachievable and ridiculous.
On top of all that, the Salmond Court case and other investigations are looming like dark clouds over a gallows.”
Excellent comment. You might have seen Patrick Harvie – The deviant Imp – saying he doesn’t trust the CASS report today on BBC Scotland.
No objective truth of scientific fact will shake a fundamentalist. There is no limit to the nonsense they will speak. The lies they will tell. Or the derision they will brave. Rather than question the faith around which they have organised their lives. She states that Harvie is pure cult fanaticism.
Well done JK Rowling. Harvie has a cultist believe deeply engrained. As the cult of hated and they are so messed up psychiatrically that they can never accept reality.
God bless JK Rowling. And continue the fight against the degenerate scum that are trying to push this on children.
Alf Baird.
It is a symbolic gesture, but one of great significance.
It means the Crown of Scotland is not United with the Crown of England.
@ Alf Baird at 7.01
I looked at your link.
You appear to be accusing me of lying about my own personal experience, which is somewhat presumptuous of you.
Nothing I say will change that, so I shall stop interacting with you and let other people reach their own conclusions about the matter.
James Che
Ignored says:
21 April, 2024 at 3:05
…., instead the Monarch of England never excepts this offer, and wistfully leaves the Scottish crown resting on its cushion, ?…
I don’t know, is the short answer, but I’m equally sure “somebody” does. Somewhere in the Royal protocols there’s a point where the Claim of Right is still of material relevance, if only as an obstacle to be got around, it remains an obstacle “they” cannot remove.
I’ve seen a number of references towards the delicate fragility of Scotland’s Crown Jewels, incidentally the oldest surviving set in the British Isles, but I’m quite positive that’s an expedient excuse.
I do wonder whether it is fear; fear that disrespect or impropriety with the Honours of Scotland, (which I’m still going to call the Scottish Crown Jewels), would rekindle the Jacobite sentiments of the 17th and 18th Centuries, which of course rose up in defence of the legitimate heir to the throne, which wasn’t William and Mary. The Jacobite cause was defeated, but not the Jacobite argument, nor the right of succession disproved.
Back when Liz was crowned in the 50’s, there were also letter boxes being ahem, “dismantled”, because ERII had neither accuracy nor legitimacy in Scotland. We Scots are so touchy and rebellious about that kind of thing, so I think the Royal adviser made a small addition to the Scottish Crown Jewels; a bespoke pair of kid gloves for handling them…
I don’t know which irritates me the most. The snidey way “the Honours of Scotland” drops reference to the Scottish Crown, or the references to Edward I invasion, defeat and expulsion from Scotland as somehow Scotland’s War of Independence. Scotland repelled England’s invasion. Scotland’s “Independence” eh? Yeah. Whatever.
I think the latter niggles most, although Charlie won’t be King of Scots until he takes the appropriate Oath… That’s gonna be funny as fk one day… lol
Must be tough trying to shore up the legitimacy of something which is fundamentally, well, illegitimate.
And while we’re about it, speaking of the word illegitimate, I’m reminded of a quip from decades ago about Diana Spencer having a better Claim to the Throne than Charlie… Besides Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Old Pretender had illegitimate kids or something… Or was it his brother? Jeez I can’t remember, but I”m sure “that” line of decent had Spencers in it; yes, that line of Spencer. Fook in ‘el. I forget the actual details.
Although thinking about it, it’s kinda funny that her son is whatshisface… William. I wonder if that counts somewhat belatedly as a Jacobite win in injury time…
Or one of those Scottish ba#&*rds back on the English throne again, to use the English vernacular … lol. Brilliant. That’s really gonna boil their piss. They’ll be having gunpowder plots and everything… Ha! Ha! Ha! 😉
“the Crown of Scotland is not United with the Crown of England”
I don’t know how you expect people to respond to this astonishing news, James.
I’m up off the couch like Homer Simpson when he found out through the shopping channel that they had discovered a miracle cure for hair loss…
“I didn’t know they’d discovered a miracle cure for hair loss!!!”
The problem only started for me yesterday. I get this message
Secure Connection Failed
An error occurred during a connection to archive.is. PR_CONNECT_RESET_ERROR
Error code: PR_CONNECT_RESET_ERROR
The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.
This was on Firefox on a Mac. I tried Chrome & Safari and had the same problem. Also tried various suggestions I found on Google without any success.
I tried on an old laptop and it worked fine. I reckon this has happened because of of the latest Firefox update.
I’ve turned off automatic updates on my old laptop. Bloody updates!
It sounds as if you and Geri might have a different problem.
There was a time when Wings had this problem with an out of date certificate (whatever that means) but back then the set up in Firefox was different in that you could choose to take a risk and connect to the website in question. That’s not an option any more.
I’m hoping archive.is sort out the problem.
I’m keen to read
‘Police say Nicola Sturgeon is still under investigation’
and
Greens to debate scrapping SNP power-sharing pact
I’ll get back on my laptop and archive these articles.
Alf Baird,
It is difficult for the Westminster parliament to separate itself from the Crown,
They are not united crowns for as long as Westminsters parliamentary Sovereignty derives from Englands “bill of Right act” and Englands parliament “Act of Settlement for the succession to the throne and Crown of England to The Country and kingdom of England, is still in force Constitutionally.
David Hannah, yes, I did see it. His response to the question on the CASS report was very slippery and cowardly… note how they want to avoid debate about science, medical research, and objective reality in favour of the supposedly safe ground of “culture war”. But they’re losing the culture war too.
Alf Baird 7.22pm:
“…Scotland’s shortage of skills in key areas results in then a ‘need’ to import such skills; i.e. because our institutions no longer teach such skills tae oor ain fowk, but instead to others.”
Absolutely right and it’s across the board in academia. Goes back more than 30 years when the ‘business model’ began to take over.
“When I last visited the department virtually no-one in it was Scottish. Anyone who thinks that is an accident is delusional. I should also add that many of us were working-class who benefited from student grants.” Garavelli Princip 6.04pm
So not only does the country lose out but also our own young folk are denied the opportunity to fulfil their potential. That is the state of things now and there seems to be no political will to remedy it.
Breeks
There is a Youtube showing the Jacobean succession but which has a delightful twist at the end showing that one of the illegitimate heirs ot James VII was the ancestor of the 4th Earl of Spencer….. and we know the rest.
I can’t do links on this site but this is the link for the site. Worth a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YgV26lmevk
Alf Baird says:
21 April, 2024 at 6:42 pm
James Che @ 3:05 pm had said;
“Why do you suppose that when Scotland tries to persuade England to accept the Scottish Crown, they do not, instead the Monarch of England never excepts this offer, and wistfully leaves the Scottish crown resting on its cushion, ?”
Alf replied;
“This appears to be little more than a symbolic gesture by an Imperial ruler, or his/her local representative, as occurred in certain colonised kingdoms where peoples were similarly handed a worthless treaty, soon violated. Colonialism is a cruel hoax, though many Scots have yet to figure that out.”
I suspect this is actually down to the Scottish Coronation Oath, because of; ‘and shall rule the people committed to our charge according to the will and command of God revealed in his aforesaid word, and according to the loveable laws and constitutions received in this realm (of Scotland).
Those ‘lovable laws and constitutions received in this realm’ are Scotland’s laws and constitution which are supposed to be preserved by the Treaty of Union, but Westminster’s English establishment tramples all over them. Heaven forfend that a Scottish monarch swear a binding Oath to preserve them as well!
They are losing the culture war – If Trump wins the next presidential election the Republicans will reign in the pharmaceutical companies.
Biden has just signed a deal to give £61 billion in military aid.
That is a vote loser with everyone in the West.
I never thought I’d say I want Trump to win. But I do.
@ Hatuey at 8.06pm: It was the imposition of woke ideology that caused the ‘culture war’ too! How can the opponents of woke ideology be blamed for a culture war that wouldn’t have happened without the advent of woke ideology? I suppose such logic-defying hypocrisy is to be expected from people who deny biological reality, mind you.
I used to think the Greens had some excellent policies and principles. I wouldn’t touch them with a forty-foot bargepole now.
No need for an apology btw, Northcode, I enjoyed your little diversion into temporal paths.
Of all the temporal paths I could have chosen, I had to choose this crappy one…
It’s funny to think there could be another me out there on a different temporal path, a me that perhaps has teeth, hair, friends, and a soul…
I’m joking, of course, I have all that stuff. I’m actually a really great guy. Obvs.
Shut it.
Andy Ellis @5.38pm
That’s one take Andy. An alternative is that the incoming Labour government will have 18 months to confirm that none of the 5 leading WM/HR political parties can provide solutions that enables us to escape the cesspit that now exists. Then what?
Perhaps our only hope IS that untainted individuals will simply “present themselves” in 2026.
Is it not preferable that persons of substance, capable of being part of a rebuilding team, are NOT associated with any political party? It’s not as if experience in politics is a plus, if you look at the recent intakes of inept morons, achieving rapid promotions, and being appointed to roles where they have absolutely zero capability, let alone expertise.
Until Indy is achieved, I would far rather entrust £60 billion annually to untainted newcomers free from party constraints than continue with the system as is.
Your point about cleaning out the stables is, I believe, just what Alex Salmond has been working towards and the raison d’être of Alba. The visionary concept of SNP1/Alba2, the constant insistence that ‘good people’ remain withing SNP, the refusal to overly criticise and thereby destroy that which he did so much to build, his reluctance to unify the numerous Indy groups, and other pointers, can only lead to the conclusion that he foresees returning to SNP at some point, not necessarily as leader, but also ensuring that Alba continues, and thereby realising his vision of a supermajority.
Once Humza is kicked into touch and Princess Kate is appointed saviour of a reborn SNP, we may see a softening of interactions between SNP and Alba. Good luck with that …
But there is no prospect of any plebiscitary election being called whereby the votes of ALL Indy parties are counted because, even if it could be arranged, it would require SNP to promote it, and lead it, which would further impact on their diminishing support, and a significant number of independence supporters will have no truck with anything connected to SNP.
Something significant needs to occur though, a political earthquake that will fill the massive void that has been created by politicians simultaneously losing every ounce of integrity that may ever have existed in their worthless carcasses.
So, YES, untainted individuals every time.
crazycat @ 7:47 pm
“let other people reach their own conclusions about the matter.”
Good idea. Here is the link showing a department of a Scottish University with hardly any Scottish academics among its 100+ staff:
https://www.strath.ac.uk/staff/?department=navalarchitectureoceanandmarineengineering
SteepBrae 8:14
says:
“So not only does the country lose out but also our own young folk are denied the opportunity to fulfil their potential. That is the state of things now and there seems to be no political will to remedy it.”
True. But what I didn’t add was that most of us post-docs from the late-seventies/early eighties failed to get academic posts in Scotland (I was a rare exception – though had to work in England for a time).
Most ended up in England or the States – or did other jobs – often outside Scotland. Some ended up in lesser occupations so that they could stay in Scotland. Huge potential lost to their and our homeland.
By that time as the English increasingly took up senior academic posts in Scotland – they filled up behind them with their own kind. More conducive to their civilised sensibilities than uncouth, straight-talking Scots!
So now a Scot occupying senior posts in Scottish (real) universities are rare indeed.
There may be higher proportion in the Micky-Mouse sector (the Cally, Napier etc) but Scots in Edinburgh, St Andrews, Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow universities are are rare breed indeed.
This is cultural imperialism – no doubt about it.
It still astounds me that the SNP leaders have still not grasped that their past dishonesty is coming down the line at them.
Westminster knows what they did to Salmond, even Rees Mogg scolded them for it.
The election should see westminster kicking the scottish courts into action. What could please them more than seeing more of them being arrested and questioned for perjury running up to an election
Totally, Michael Laing. They started it and it was the only thing they (The Greens) seemed to put any genuine effort into. I can’t remember the last time I seen a Green politician talking about global warming.
The culture war had much the same importance attached to it by Sturgeon’s SNP, although in fairness they did put genuine effort into other things too, like going after Salmond, destroying party democracy, jailing various people, undermining the grassroots independence movement, etc.
All the energy and effort went into stuff that the vast majority of us didn’t want. When it came to the stuff we did want, all we got was bullshit designed to string us along.
Look at the crap we have been dragged through over the last few years. Brexit, Tory cuts, the so-called cost of living crisis, the pandemic… in the hours of our greatest need, the SNP stabbed us in the back, over and over and over and over again.
There isn’t one person in the SNP right now that I will ever forgive. Not one. And that’s why the party can’t be saved and why it must be completely destroyed.
Garavelli Princip @ 10:32 pm
“There may be higher proportion in the Micky-Mouse sector (the Cally, Napier etc)”
Hey, watch the academic snobbery! The old poly’s and then new uni’s were the only real option for working class state-schooled Scots such as myself, most of whom were and still are refused places to enter the ‘ancients’ as a matter of course. Meantime the ancients doors remain open to higher fee paying students from outside Scotland and for those from private schools here. Segregation and anti-Scots racism in full sway.
Incidentally I studied Psychology at the ‘ Cally’ in the 90s. I do not consider it a Mickey Mouse Uni. Indeed the Psychology department was in the top 3 of all Scottish Universities at the time. This idea that only the ancient institutions have any merit, is just knee jerk snobbery.
OMG Are all these PhD guys all snobby abusive cunts?
Stu has a degree from Napier.
‘The ancient institutions’ don’t know the difference between Mickey Mouse & Minnie Mouse and believe people can be born in the wrong body & professors are hounded out because they believe in biology.
What a fuckin’ mess we’re in! We can greet, scream, shout and swear. Argue with each other about who’s right and who’s wrong and in 50+ years I’ve seen absolutely fuck all change – anywhere – for all of it. The poor are still poor. The rich are still rich. The political class still kid us all on they’re our pals and we should vote for them and then let us down every fuckin’ time. We’re manipulated daily by the media – broadcast, print and blogs – and the sleekit infections by dark antagonists of our institutions and nobody notices or those who do are impotent. So it’s been and so it will continue. I for one have given up on any semblance of change happening whether we get Indy or not. I’m all for my fucking self and my family and friends now. Everything else can shove it! I’m going to enjoy the rest of my time. Listen to music. Read books. Smell the fresh air. Walk in the rain. Make snowmen with the grandkids. I’ll watch as the Rat Race passes by clawing at each other for money, power and prestige and laugh at how unhappy they all are. Thanks for the ride Stu but it’s time I got off. It’s just going round in circles, the passengers are fighting, the road is rough, there’s no end in sight. I’m finished with the system. Byeee!
I think what we are seeing BTL is the five stages of grief playing out. It hits different people at different times.
Hindsight is a funny thing but I knew the game was a bogey the day Leaky Liz Lloyd broke the law. What was that, 2017? I could not rationalize at the time but I knew deep in my bones that the SNP was gone, captured, call it what you want…
Others have not even started grieving. Just go visit the orange canine. But even they are going to really struggle as this unfolds further. It is another huge cognitive dissonance generator.
Personally I want to see the truth come out.
That is the best I can salvage out of this colossal betrayal.
And also to see them, to whatever degree possible, get their comeuppance for what they did.
Independence is very important but the truth is more important.
And that (IMHO) is what this site is fundamentally about, the truth.
Also I don’t think it is possible to rebuild without it.
Kevin Cargill, I’m almost 100% with you. I’m taking part out of habit, but I’ll not give up quality time doing things I enjoy to attend a conference listening to the same crap from a different angle.
Unfortunately politics won’t leave us alone, and so eventually we get drawn back in…
I see Gordon McIntyre Kemp has taken to the comments section of the National:
“No the counter demo was predominately full of English accents, British Nationalists, highly racist and there as much to attack the Hate Crime bill as anything else. It was bigger than ever as a Force for Good had been ramping up the hate on social media and clearly lost control of the organisation to a bunch of aggressive morons. They were aided in this by certain parts of the indy movement lying about BiS not being party neutral for their own political gain. Thus the protesters were motivated the SNP Gov more than anything.”
Margaret Eleftheriou
Ignored
says:
21 April, 2024 at 8:16 pm
Worth a look….
Thanks Margaret, I wrote a lomger reply earier thos morning, but it’s got lost in the ether apparently. Not moderation, just gone.
That link is very good, and just as interesting is the 1704 Act of Security, instigated by Scotlands Three Estates, affirming Scotland had the right to choose their King or Queen, which the GB Parliament sought to repeal in 1707. Clearly, that reflects a UK Parliament tryimg to usurp Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, and defeat the Claim of Right in other words, but lacked sovereign authority to do remove that authority from the people.
Alf Baird
says:
21 April, 2024 at 11:30 pm
“The old poly’s and then new uni’s were the only real option for working class state-schooled Scots such as myself, most of whom were and still are refused places to enter the ‘ancients’ as a matter of course.”
Exactly the point I’m making, Alf.
I’m working-class myself. Both parents left school at 14 and worked in industry (remember when we used to have that).
I went to uni in the 70s. Nearly all of my classmates in my ‘ancient’ were Scottish. But even then, St Andrews and Edinburgh were different – though not Anglo-monoglot as they appear to be now.
As I mentioned, most of my fellow post-docs could not get posts in Scotland. Of those who did, many went to the former Poly sector. Sorry ‘Mickey-Mouse’ is a bit derogatory (to Disney).
They do not paint a good picture of it. Massive teaching loads, watered-down courses, pass-mark 40% – with even that ‘massaged’ to keep ‘bums on seats’ and hence fee income. Massive bullying, and a struggle to maintain any semblance of academic standards.
But of course, this was the desired neoliberal business-model, and to a large extent the ancients were forced to follow – especially the teaching loads and the bullying.
I’m happily retired now and out of it. But there is no doubt in my mind that turning HE into businesses has wrecked the sector.
I could mount an argument (but not here) that there are NO real universities left in Scotland. Pockets of greatness here and there, but by and large a wasteland.
Kevin is wrong in saying there has been no change in 50 years and that the poor are still poor and the rich are still rich. The poor are poorer and the rich are richer.
A lot has changed in the last decade just ask the grand kids.
Sure read books, listen to music and enjoy yourself but do not kid yourself that nothing has changed in the past 50 years.
Things are changing and changing fast.
The question is will everyone in Scotland be like Kevin and just give up and let it all happen?
Is there anything stopping other groups joining in ‘Believe in Scotland’ or ‘AUOB’ marches?
One group organises the march gets permission, pays for security, advertising etc and other groups do nothing other than just join the march. Lets call them ‘cuckoos’.
Every time there is a independence march the cuckoo group ‘The ‘Manky Jaikets’ show up they get press attention and an audience having done absolutely nothing other than show up and hijack the independence march.
Same thing happens with the ‘Let Women Speak’ events the ‘cuckoos’ are there every time with their trans rights banners and all the rest. They don’t get permission or pay for security. They get plenty press attention and free audience.
There was an ‘AUOB’ march where a number of ‘trans right protesters’ showed up with their LGBTQ+ flags and there was nothing to stop them.
The ‘Manky Jaikets’ will be there on the 4th May and goodness knows how many other ‘cuckoo groups’ will join in the march.
Did someone request some spanners?
I’d be willing to bet that Scots who didn’t go to university were more likely to have voted for independence in 2014, than those who did go.
That’s a bit awkward.
Does education make you a better person? Does it make you happier? It probably still makes you wealthier, but wealth doesn’t obviously correlate with better or happier; and it definitely doesn’t correlate with being socially responsible.
Society would be better off if we de-educated some people. I don’t know if it can be done. Naomi Klein talked about de-patterning procedures in Shock Doctrine, but it didn’t sound pleasant.
Garavelli Princip @ 8:57 am
“there is no doubt in my mind that turning HE into businesses has wrecked the sector.”
The sector, as part of the ‘colonial racket’, does not and is not intended to serve the needs of Scots or Scotland, that’s for sure. Most if not all former colonies had to create a National University and Scots maybe need to do likewise, focusing on lifting up (all) the people; a decolonized country has to re-create its institutions based on a quite different ideology and values, i.e. those of the oppressed (now-liberated) group, not the oppressor:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/01/the-determinants-of-independence-institutions/
Ruby 12:51 am
‘The ancient institutions’ don’t know the difference between Mickey Mouse & Minnie Mouse and believe people can be born in the wrong body & professors are hounded out because they believe in biology.’
Ruby, this is not a difference between the ancients and the polys; it’s between social ‘sciences’ and real sciences.
The former invented all the gender bollocks because – well they had nothing better to do! And they don’t base their ‘research’ on anything as vulgar as empirical evidence.
The latter knows what sex is and is evidence based.
As a biochemist teaching foundation biology I taught the facts: In mammals (including humans) reproduction is sexual. There are two sexes – male and female – these are immutable and all the gender garbage is all in the heads of (often quite mentally ill) people.
There are occasional genetic and developmental ‘mistakes’ and the outcome may be a sexual hybrid. But these are extremely rare, very well-recognised, and classed as what they are: pathologies.
I hope this clarifies things for you.
” a decolonized country has to re-create its institutions based on a quite different ideology and values, i.e. those of the oppressed (now-liberated) group, not the oppressor:”
I like the idea of sweeping everything foisted on the Scots, and everything that once was Scottish but is now ruined and twisted out of shape to suit another people, aside and re-building it all from scratch from the blueprints of Scotland’s history, culture, language and way of life. And for the benefit of all Scots.
Unlike our career politicians they went to ‘The University of Life’
It’s ridiculous to look down on people who didn’t go to university. Where would we be without electricians, joiners, plumbers, bus drivers, shop assistants etc etc etc.
Equally ridiculous to look up to people who went to Oxford, Cambridge or St Andrews just because they learned to recite “The Iliad” in Greek. Learning more and more about less and less doesn’t equip you to make good decisions about everyday life.
@Hatuey 10:30
25 years hard labour for everybody with soft hands.
And death to their leaders.
Looking through history, that’s been the stock answer. And that’s why there’s always been so much push back. If we take the Soviet experience, after 10 or 20 years, the survivors in the camps are released and “invited” to explain to their uneducated replacements how things like an economy, industrial base, agricultural sector, research & development, etc actually work.
Meantime, ordinary people starve.
I’ll be honest. A week’s hard physical graft would finish me. I’m betting there’s not a single regular on here who could do better.
There may well be an inverse relationship between educational attainment and Indy support. I’ll also bet there’s an inverse relationship between educational attainment and belief that running a moderately advanced, aspirational first world, democratic country is dead easy.
I have a bit of an education, and thus I believe making a good go of things in politics is difficult, borderline impossible. That’s why just about everybody who tries it ends in spectacular failure. Especially those not blessed with much of an intellect to start with.
It’s a lot more plausible to me than belief in conspiracies.
From lyric to logic to rhetoric, a slight, hopefully informative, diversion as I weave my weary way.
Long, long ages past, when Scotland was still part of Pangea and the birth of the Sun and our solar system was still a recent memory, lived a man called Sydney Smith (1771–1845).
One day the Reverend Smith was told that a wee man who lived in his parish had got engaged to a local woman who was on the opposite side of skinny.
His response was a tad rude:
We don’t really do hyperbole properly anymore. We lack the ambition to deploy it’s full power. It’s all a bit “If I’ve told you twice, I’ve told you a thousand times” or “I broke down in a flood of tears” nowadays.
Really effective hyperbole is the impossible hyperbole woven through tales:
Dashiell Hammett (1894-1961) author of The Maltese Falcon and creator of the Sam Spade character played by Humphrey Bogart in movies.
Really effective hyperbole isn’t just exaggeration. It’s exaggeration on steroids and to make it work you have to go way, way over the top, to infinity and beyond and maybe a wee bit further.
For top-notch hyperbole, though, we need to go back to the Bible and consult the Son of God – “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly…” kind of stuff.
So, hyperbole. Too much is an eternity short of too much if you want to do it proper.
Although I would advise you to stop short of the Reverend smith’s approach now that Pangea has split into continents and we are all hugely, titanically, galactically more considerate of other folk’s feelings.
This talk of universities gets me thinking, as does a specific thing that Garavelli Princep has just mentioned. Full disclosure, two of my privately educated offspring went to ancient universities, both were following science type paths. In their peer groups they were the only ones who were privately educated. None of their closer friends were, literally not one. They are all Scottish, mainly very successful, 3 hold PhDs, all 3 are working within Scottish academia. As to my 2, one has elected to be a stay at home parent for now, luckily their spouse (state educated) is highly qualified in their field and using said qualifications to their fullest, in Scotland. Youngest offspring is successful in their own right having obtained further qualifications in a different field after their degree.
So is this the difference between Science/Tech/Maths and the rest?
Alf Baird
Ignored says:
22 April, 2024 at 10:31 am
Garavelli Princip @ 8:57 am
“there is no doubt in my mind that turning HE into businesses has wrecked the sector.”
The sector, as part of the ‘colonial racket’, does not and is not intended to serve the needs of Scots or Scotland, that’s for sure. Most if not all former colonies had to create a National University and Scots maybe need to do likewise, focusing on lifting up (all) the people; a decolonized country has to re-create its institutions based on a quite different ideology and values, i.e. those of the oppressed (now-liberated) group, not the oppressor:
I agree entirely Alf.
Well cheers Garavelli but I knew all that already and that was just what I learned from the ‘University of Life’ and at primary school.
Would that not depend on what subject you studied? You seem to be suggesting that everyone without ‘a bit of an education’ is stupid.
Everyone brought up in this country has ‘a bit of an education’, it’s a legal requirement.
Intelligence & education isn’t the same thing.
@ Northcode and others: I am enjoying the tone btl today. Thank you.
Turning to the General Election candidates who WILL be pro-active for leaving the Union, three have crowdfunders going, all on Crowdfunder.co.UK:
1. GE Campaign Fund, Sally Hughes i4i Perth & Kinross
2. GE’24 Campaign – this is the Independence for Scotland Party fundraiser.
3. Eva Comrie GE Campaign Fund – Alloa & Grangemouth
It goes without saying that these three will need every penny we can send AND will be worth our contributions. I don’t think any of them wear comfy slippers or are happy to play by Westminster rules.
Ma faither an his freends in the yards knew hou tae build ships. Big ships, massive ships, the starships o the seas. An they wid hiv blootered oot a wee Calmac ferry-boat in a fortnight – and it wid hiv aw worked richt tae.
An thae wid hiv telt ye if thon ships wir drawn-up richt or wrang. Thae knew whin a ship wis drawn-up wrang fer it wid tak thaim twice as lang tae build wi aw the fixes an tricks they’d hiv tae mak tae git it tae work.
I would hear him, ma faither, now and again call those fowk who’d designed such ships ‘educated idiots’. An no juist thaim thit drew-up ships, but those wha fancied thaimsels above the rest o us – especially politicians and ‘great leaders’ of industry an aw ther wee minions.
A top education doesn’t make an idiot any smarter – it just makes them an educated idiot. And without any intelligence behind it, a higher education is mair or less useless tae a society.
There’s a recent video of Sturgeon talking about climate change and gender equity sponsored by the Rockefeller family, the ultimate globalists. Not known for promoting nationalism.
https://twitter.com/Albion_Rover/status/1781428041572315587
Breeks,
Re- my comments yesterday on the Crown of England sitting in Westminster parliament to lend that parliament its Sovereignty through the English law acts the bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement does make the parliament of Westminster the parliament of England,
The ramifications of a Sovereign parliament of England, (not Great- Britain) Promoting its head “Crown” laws, Statues and legislation in and over Scotland has no legitimacy at all.
And as Xaracen pointed out, Scots laws were supposed to remain Scotland separate,
But the legitimacy of the treaty union falls and fails along with this “Crown of England’s position” resting as the ” Sovereign” of the Westminster parliament of England / not of Great-Britain,
For Scotland these (illegal idiosyncracies) Of the Treaty of union are very important and have been ignored by Scotland, Scottish law corporations/firms, its politicians and its people,
The more we learn regarding the details and records surrounding The Treaty of Union, laws, acts, legislation and Statues, the more we understand the Hoax that has left Scotland and its people in the position as a Colonised Country,
Alf Baird
A wee note of clarification tae a man wha knows hou tae draw-up ships.
A’m certain ma faither wid hiv conseedered yerself as ane of thon wha knew whit thae wir aboot whin it came tae drawin’ up ships.
Ruby 11:34
Good to hear you learned all you need to know at the University of Life.
I’m pretty sure that nobody at any other university could have taught you anything.
Breeks,
Alf Baird.
How does any of the laws or legislation, the crown courts of England in Scotland, or the legislation and Statues for the Devolved Parliament sent to Scotland from the Sovereign parliament of England under the Crown of England stand in legal terms.
For that matter how does any of the legislation passed by the devolved government, through the English parliament, Scotland Act, given royal assent by the monarch of England, then rolled down through parties like the SNP and Greens have any legal standing as “Scots law” if it is under the Sovereign parliament of England,
Are the police, police Scotland? – or are they police England,?,
Is the gender laws in Scotland actually Gender laws of the “parliament of England” through their Scotland act.
Apparently slapping simply a new name brand onto something unofficially is Westminster parliament of Englands “Forte’ “.
Well, for what it’s worth, I think education and intelligence are overrated and common decency is underrated. We don’t need more educated people, as I see it, we need more good people. People that combine good and smart are the ones that change the world.
The system we call capitalism rarely elevates good people, though. It prioritises profits. That is increasingly what serves as the foundational economic base in most western societies today and it’s hardly surprising that we have politicians, political systems, and problems that spring from systems that put profits before people and everything else.
Of course, that’s why everything is sort of fucked, and I suspect you all know that.
Anyway, education and educated people, as Shania put it, don’t impress me much.
Correct conclusion, Ruby (12.10pm). You can lead a horse to water (education) but you can’t make it drink (intelligence).
Some of the least enlightened people I’ve known have had higher education while some of the wisest left school at 14. That is not, however, an argument against education.
Relevance to independence? There are all sorts of paths to the realisation that Scotland needs independence. Educational background is no more a hindrance than, say, being a professional footballer, a subpostmaster or a landscape gardener. It doesn’t work like that. Seeing your culture being dismantled affects you no matter what else is going on in your life. Colonisation affects everyone. Directing our frustration at the wrong target just plays into the hands of the coloniser.
The problem is not who wants independence but who is preventing it.
Fifty years ago, politicians ensured that young people from whatever background had opportunities based on merit not family money. Many supporters of independence benefited from this through higher education, apprenticeships or access to businesses where you could work your way up the ladder. Politicians also invested in industry so people had jobs. Now look at the policitians we’re saddled with. That’s the problem.
James Che
Ignored
says:
22 April, 2024 at 1:10 pm
The more we learn regarding the details and records surrounding The Treaty of Union, laws, acts, legislation and Statues, the more we understand the Hoax that has left Scotland and its people in the position as a Colonised Country…
Aye, and what an unqualified scandal it is that the SNP have squandered ten years filling the heads of Scottish Schoolkids with all this Gender based anti-science stupidity, rather than educating them properly about Scotland’s Constitution and their own sovereign birthright.
Even now, with SALVO on the scene, this knowledge is more accessible than at any time in our history, yet still people would rather gripe that nothing can be done! We need a plan! We need Unity! We need action! We need an Assembly! We need a Convention!…
We need SALVO, and have SALVO, but we need people to read what SALVO is telling us. There is a plan. There is a process to victory. Scotland will be free, but freed sooner if more people paid closer attention.
“Ah but there’s no shortcut or magic bullet!” screech the Politicians… Sigh! Actually, there near enough is; you’re either sovereign, or you’re not. That’s as binary / black and white as you’ll get, and the Claim of Right is indelibly woven throughout “UK” Legislation. That distinction IS a magic bullet the moment we decide to make it one.
Thousands of jobs my arse (well not for Scot anyway) wind turbine are not built in Scotland, and the electricity produced by them will probably land in England, Wood was Judas in 2014, and he’s still one, our assets are being used to benefit another country, as Scots still pay through the nose for energy that is ours.
This is just another variation on Sturgeon’s Great ScotWind Giveaway.
“EUROPE’S largest floating wind farm has been approved off the Aberdeenshire coast in a “massive boost” for the north east of Scotland.
“Green Volt – Europe’s first commercial-scale floating wind farm – has been given the green light off the coast of Peterhead which is set to trigger up to £3 billion in investment, according to north-east energy tycoon Sir Ian Wood.
The billionaire businessman also said the project – which is owned 50% each by Aberdeen-brd Flotation Energy and Norwegian firm Vargronn – will create hundreds of jobs.
The wind farm will have up to 35 turbines at a power of 560 MW and has been described as an “essential stepping stone” from current small-scale projects to gigawatt-style developments.”
Rebrands by Westminster parliament,
The parliament of England – is now renamed the parliament of Great- Britain.
The Anglo – Ireland treaty 1800 – is now known as the united kingdom – Ireland treaty 1800.
The parliament of Scotland 1707 – is now known as the Devolved parliament from England,
The Court of Scotland – are now known as Crown courts of England.
The Anglo – America trade treaty – is now known as the Great Britain – America trade treaty.
The Crown of England – is now known as the Crown of Great Britain,
The 1707 treaty of union with Scotland – is now known as the Treaty of union of Englands parliament with England Parliament of Great Britain.
Why not take the French experience instead? That seems to have worked out well and people ended up eating bread instead of cake.
Also they became a republic & a secular society which sounds like a very good move.
I’m not too sure about the idea of having highly religious politicians nor about having a Royal Family to reign over us.
James Che @ 1:37 pm
Aye, “the Crown of England” seems absolutely dominant in most if not all major matters of law relating to Scotland. The term ‘Scots Law’ appears merely related to the remains of a few auld traditions and certain privileges handed out to elites.
The laws of this land (i.e. Scotland) only come through England’s Parliament and Crown. Scots are ‘out of the game’ in postcolonial speak, i.e. bystanders largely. Which implies our elites aye serve the wrang Croun and pay lip service to Scotland’s ain constitution.
I learned all I needed to know about biology at the UoL.
What were you thinking I might need to be taught at another university?
Are you thinking along the same lines as Andy Ellis that ‘you can’t educate pork’ and because of that I am a lost cause who can’t learn anything.
Are you thinking a religious education would be better than a university education? Any particular religion in mind?
Maybe you think Humza’s hate crime bill will do the trick and we will all become good people free of hate.
Breeks,
Salvo are good and I read a lot of their postings, and I back them in what they are achieving
However they would be wise to take on board what Englands parliament laws the “Bill of rights” and “the Act of Settlement” does to the so called parliament of Great Britain, ( which by the way is still in Force as part of Englands Constitution)
As it creates the “Sovereignty” parliament of Westminsters England, with the simple additional add on name Great- britain,
And with this knowledge Scotland leads from an entirely different starting point to the suggested normal stance of Scotland extracting itself from the 1707 treaty of union,
The parliamentary Union between the two respective Countries Scotland and England did not Happen,
The old Westminster parliament of England is today still the Westminster parliament of England because of those said Acts mentioned above.
The Scottish parliament was dissolved in 1700 by the “parliament of England”, from the Treaty of union
Westminster parliament is definately not the 1707 united parliamentary union of the Scotland and England,
Those same Acts of the “parliament of England” retain the Monarch of England.
That means the two respective Crowns of Scotland and England did not meet, join or unite to make a United kingdom.
If Salvo, or you and I believe we are in one United kingdom are under the joined Crowns of Scotland and England, whilst the monarch of England has Sovereignty, then the first Hoax has been Successful by the Westminster parliament over Scotland.
If Salvo, or you and I believe that the Two respective parliaments of Scotland and England are joined as one United parliament of Great Britain whilst the Westminster parliament of England holds English Sovereignty in parliament, then the second Hoax by the parliament of England has also been successful over Scotland.
And the reason it has been a successful Hoax over Scotland for over three hundred years is,
Simply for two reasons,
1) Scotland and its people have not had access to read the records in days and years past,
2) due this long delayed access to records, the Scottish people no longer question the original legal reality of what they have been forced to become accustomed to over the period of three hundred years,
However just because Salvo, you or I become accustomed to ” The Hoax” while living in a Colonised Country……..
It does not make it right or legal.
Salvo’s starting point should be to realise its legal potential starting position,
There is no union between two United monarchy kingdoms , and there is no parliamentary Union between the Two Countries Parliaments.
We should simply leave, and let The Westminster parliament of England go to the expense of contesting it,
So here is the question,
How can Englands Sovereign Westminster parliament of England Challenge a Scottish parliament that they Dissolved from the Treaty of Union three hundred years ago?
The devolved parliament in Scotland today is the colonial sub-division by legislation of the Scotland act of the parliament of England is it not?
We would have to have our own Real parliament of Scotland and our own Courts of Scotland before Englands parliament could contest anything.
“Are you thinking a religious education would be better than a university education? Any particular religion in mind?”
No, none whatsoever. We already have that sort of thing. Actually, some of the worst nutters in all history were religious types.
You have an economic system that essentially promotes greed, war, environmental neglect, inequality, crime, egoism, etc. Logically, the only way to change all of those things is to change the underlying economic system — swap it for one that doesn’t do that, or at least reduces the intensity of that stuff.
It’s not complicated. If you took say energy out of the free market, you’d go quite a long way to reducing a lot of the problems listed above. Make it so people were guaranteed a house and energy and you’d solve a lot of social problems with a stroke of a pen.
If you did that globally, you’d stop most of the wars, stabilise markets, and be in a position to do more to promote green energy solutions.
Of course, it’s all bullshit.
SteepBrae @ 1:44 pm
“Some of the least enlightened people I’ve known have had higher education while some of the wisest left school at 14.”
Yes, and in postcolonial theory we are reminded that ‘the pampered’ bourgeoisie as the more educated elements comprise the group most content with maintaining the colonial status quo, yet whose intellectual limitations are described as follows:
“One cannot say that the petty bourgeois has never read anything. On the contrary, he has read everything, devoured everything. Only, his brain functions after the fashion of certain elementary types of digestive systems. It filters. And the filter lets through only what can nourish the thick skin of the bourgeois’s clear conscience” (Aime Cesaire).
We might relate this ‘filter’ and its inbuilt ‘defence mechanisms’ to the ‘colonial mindset’ theory:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/03/03/the-colonial-mindset/
Based on 2021 data
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Henderson_Challenges-to-the-Union.pdf
Britishness
When we ask individuals to pick the national identity most important to them, in no part of the UK is there a majority selecting a British identity. Less than one third select British in Scotland (22%), Northern
Ireland (22%) or Wales (28%), while the figure rises to 40% in England.
Britishness means different things in different parts of the state. Even among those who share a British identity we see varying – at times opposite – preferences depending on where one lives. British identifiers voted Remain in England but Leave in Scotland and Wales in the EU referendum, but also hold different attitudes to devolution. This challenges efforts to generate a shared identity based around similar ‘British’ values.
Economic Solidarity
There are inconsistent attitudes to economic solidarity. While survey respondents support the idea of sharing resources across the UK in principle, support drops if you specify which parts of the UK might receive support, with high levels of grievance about the UK-wide distribution of resources.
@ Sam 4.48pm what is hypocritical is that when you see engerlish villages and towns resplendent in their banners and flags, those banners and flags in the majority are union jacks or butchers aprons, they seem to have an aversion to displaying the St George flag or the engerlish flag as it is known, is that possibly an indication that THEY consider engerland as the uk or is it just an example of their exceptionalism where Scotland , Wales and NI are just bits of engerland
James Che said;
“The parliamentary Union between the two respective Countries Scotland and England did not Happen,
The old Westminster parliament of England is today still the Westminster parliament of England because of those said Acts mentioned above.
The Scottish parliament was dissolved in 1700 by the “parliament of England”, from the Treaty of union
Westminster parliament is definitely not the 1707 united parliamentary union of the Scotland and England,
Those same Acts of the “parliament of England” retain the Monarch of England.
That means the two respective Crowns of Scotland and England did not meet, join or unite to make a United kingdom.”
James, the parliamentary Union between Scotland and England DID happen, it happened as soon as Scotland’s MPs turned up at Westminster and took part in its proceedings. But England’s establishment subverted that union by having both bodies of MPs submit to a flat voting system that enormously leveraged England’s ten times greater MP numbers, essentially stripping Scotland of any meaningful agency in the Union. The Scots MPs had no damn right to let them away with that unconstitutional and undemocratic tripe because it was not a formal obligation from the Treaty nor from either Act of Union, so they are just as fully to blame for all the injustices Westminster has ever heaped on Scotland as England’s MPs are.
The Westminster parliament IS the parliament of the Union, but it lost its formal legitimacy over the Union the first time England’s MPs overrode a majority decision of the Scots MPs in that parliament. It was ultra vires of England’s MPs to do so, it was ultra vires of the parliament to permit them to do so, and it was ultra vires of Scotland’s MPs to accept that situation, and even worse, to continue to accept that situation for literally centuries!
That was an utter betrayal of Scotland by all involved, and may they all rot in Hell for it!
The English parliament did NOT dissolve the Scottish one ever. It was dissolved specifically by Queen Anne, who had that right as Scotland’s monarch, and such dissolution did not remove it ‘from the Treaty’ because a subset of its MPs continued to wield its full Scottish authority in the new Union parliament alongside England’s MPs who continued England’s parliamentary authority in the new parliament. That was all that the ‘parliamentary union’ entailed and required. Scotland’s MPs alone in all the world speak exclusively for the entire sovereign kingdom, country, nation, territory, and people of Scotland, and no-one outside Scotland has ANY legitimate authority over them.
The monarchical union was just window-dressing, and all the rest of the Treaty was trade agreements.
Thank-you for the link, Alf (4.06pm). An excellent reminder of why education matters. It’s a fascinating read.
Cesaire certainly had a colourful turn of phrase. ‘Filter feeder’ will forever now be associated with a Pythonesque image of a thick-skinned colonialist with a clear conscience and a voracious appetite for books.
“And the filter lets through only what can nourish the thick skin of the bourgeois’s clear conscience” (Aime Cesaire).”
This line is very clever. Clever and damning at the same time.
Wrapping a metaphorical leathery hide around the abstraction of a conscience, around the moral sense of right and wrong, to blind the owners of such a conscience to the suffering of the ‘people’ in which they are blithely complicit is a powerful device.
Scotland’s bourgeoisie in league with her political class have unleashed untold suffering on the people of Scotland and are continuing to do so in the name of some bucks and a bit of bling. They are a despicable bunch.
Trapped as they are in the depths of delusional self-entitlement they are oblivious to all but their own selfish desires – whatever exotic extravagances they might be – and in their own eyes are guilty of nothing.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the surprise on the faces of some of Scotland’s big names arrested for something or other isn’t genuine.
‘Me? What wrong am I guilty of?’
It’s difficult to read this line of Cesaire’s and not have the faces of Scotland’s elite flash across one’s mind.
Unfortunately the SNP and AUOB have both had their problems recently, who would want to publicly support either? The Independence movement needs people it can trust before it can move forward again.