The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


Welcome to the debate

Posted on November 27, 2013 by

Dear Yes Scotland,

Please immediately contact Channel 5 and ask them how much they want for this:

Pay any price they ask, and show it on September 17th. 100% Yes, in the bag.

(Download links 1 and 2.)

(The original YouTube link is here. It can still be watched if you’re outside the UK, or if you’re using a super-handy browser plugin like Hola.)

(And audio is here if you can’t watch video for some reason.)

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  1. 17 06 16 20:08

    All Unions Are Not Equal | A Wilderness of Peace

249 to “Welcome to the debate”

  1. Taranaich says:

    Aye, hide yer face, Ronni. Can’t believe such a historically literate person (see her talk on Culloden on QI) could peddle this nonsense.

  2. Susan S says:

    It was awful.  Just awful.  Wish to God I had been there to tell Richard Madely and the panel the reasons to his pathetic whine of ‘we give them all this money, so what are we doing wrong?’. 

  3. Helen Yates says:

    I tried to phone in to this debate this morning as I was so angry listening to these four stooges, however I didn’t get through and I have spent the rest of the day in a right mood, sometimes I despair ,it is bad enough listening to other people downing our country but it is so much harder when it is some of our own.

  4. M4rkyboy says:

    Ronni made one feeble attempt at defending us.You could see her prevaricate and wrestle with her conscience but ultimately she folded and just let them get away with it.The London Scot is a funny old creature at times.

  5. benarmine says:

    Oh no Rev, surely we’ll all learn the truth that the English have been subsidising us for centuries!… Pretty shocking stuff, appalling ignorance and casual racism.

  6. turnip_ghost says:

    I’m sitting jaw open watching the sheer ignorance of these apparently intelligent people…But then…should we be? They obviously don’t see Scottish politics….but the old subsidy myth, it being called the bank of England…And that Katie Hopkins…well, buff said.

    So frustrating. I was down over the weekend in London and the number of people that had questions about it and were surprised at what they didn’t know, what they are told by the press compared to the information I had at hand ( Not in any small part due to this website!). Most of them don’t even realise how much money gets spent in the SE of England (and London in particular) compared to the rest of the uk.

  7. muttley79 says:

    What did Ronni Anconi say?  I can’t stand Madeley so I am not going to watch it.  I reckon some Scots in London will just tell the MSM what they want to hear.

  8. bmc875 says:

    Christmas card – Untick.
    There was no need for her to take that approach. Anti-English at school is simply pouring petrol on a fire. Even ‘Richard’ tried to soften it!

  9. George Mortimer says:

    Aw c,mon that was the best laugh I’ve had in bloody ages. Reckon it was worth a few hundred votes (assuming that’s their audience share in Scotchland).

  10. Confirms everything I’ve always thought about people who appear on (and watch) this programme!

  11. Ken500 says:

    How many viewers is Madely losing Mathew

    Mathew admits the Oil Revenues were taken.

  12. FMQ Unofficial says:

    Hi. I’ve screen recorded the whole thing. It was….. interesting. Will see to it that the footage is uploaded onto YouTube as soon as possible.

  13. Alba4Eva says:

    Everyone I know will be watching this when the video is posted here.  This should increase Yes votes by massive numbers.  
     
    What a bunch of feckin idiots!

  14. Smudger says:

    Couldn’t care less what the three ignorant bastards said, I’m saddened that an intelligent scot played the poor I was bullied at school because I was english card 🙁
     
    poor or poor debating but not unexpected

  15. TheGreatBaldo says:

    Mind blowing……arguably even more embarrassing when Mr Madeley did an Ali G impression.
     
    Should be uploaded and spread as far and wide as possible.
     
    Not one for complaining continually but surely some Broadcasting Standards where broken in this awful borderline racist piece of bilge……
     
     

  16. Dan Watt says:

    Holy shit! Pardon my language but jesus h christ. Interesting to find out what these bloody ponces on TV think. Could it be as simple as trying to tell their markets what they think they want to hear? I was past the whole “English people really don’t think a lot of us” but now I’m not so sure.
     
    That Katy shitbag needs a right good kick in the chaff.

  17. Macart says:

    Holey ***king moley.
     
    I think we’ve all encountered, brainless, ignorant and down right rude individuals on line, but the level of ignorance shown in that programme was truly epic.
     
    I agree, whatever it takes, however much it costs, fer gawd’s sake get that vid copied and post a dvd through every letter box in Scotland. LANDSLIDE WIN GUARANTEED.

  18. What has an IQ of just over 150 on the Mathew Wright programme?
     
    The entire TV audience combined!
     

  19. Ekindy says:

    Tried but sorry couldnt sit through all of that. Pig ignorant fools. Pathetic and not even close to a debate.
    Away to try and enjoy ma dinner in a bad mood now !!

  20. Big Al says:

    Using Madely Arithmetic I have calculated that Judy Finnegan is 25 years old.

    What utter drivel.

  21. Andy-B says:

    Ha ha ha if these clueless clowns, are the  English benchmark for the understanding, of Scottish Independence, and its financial position, then the sooner we part the better.
     
     
     

  22. drygrangebull says:

    Please rev could you do a piece for rt cause this is s*it.
    http://rt.com/op-edge/scottish-independence-white-paper-390/

  23. they have a facebook page which I’m sure would be delighted to hear corrections to their fictional account of Scotland’s past and future. https://www.facebook.com/officialwrightstuff/posts/10153553591950422
     

  24. Shaun Milne says:

    If we go independent they don’t have to turn the clocks back. It’s such a hastle for them but they do it for us the kind souls.
    We are not bloody subsidised! Jing, crivens help me boab I’m sick of this crap.
    Without using expletives its very difficult to explain my reaction to that.
    Ignorant tossers is about as mild as I’m willing to go.

  25. Dan Watt says:

    Actually Stu, I almost wish you would stop doing this to us, it’s bloody sickening knowing that there are people being paid good money to peddle this level of ignorance and disinformation.

  26. Dcanmore says:

    Ronni is a successful Scot in London, being in London gives her the money, fame, friends, work and lifestyle that she’s become used to. She probably hasn’t even thought of Scotland, other than childhood memories and a place where her parents live, in years. She probably knows very little about Scotland as very little of Scotland is projected in England. She doesn’t want to embarrass herself in front of her (English) friends so she stays meek and sheepish. Ronni is on the show because she’s been offered good money to be there (what else has she done in recent years?) so she isn’t going to bite the hand that feeds her.
     
    To be wholly accepted among the English middle classes a Scot has to be ("Tractor" - Ed)ous to his/her own kind (Carmichael’s ‘they’ and ‘them’ not we and us), then you will get the nodding approval of the of the chattering do-gooders, to be one of ‘them’. I’m a London Scot, a Jock, sweaty sock, a grumpy Scotch git, but I hold my own and that earns me some respect but doesn’t make me wholly accepted and sometimes I feel it. I don’t blame Ronni or any other London Scot for being what they are, slaves who have become accustomed to how they live and the person they need to be to keep the income coming in and the friends they have. This becomes ‘normal’ behaviour over years and years and is a contrast to those famous Scots who live and work abroad. They left Scotland and see it from the outside, but they also see the UK from the outside and notice how vulnerable Scotland is within the UK.
     
    This is just a reaction post, I haven’t heard the audio/video yet.

  27. I’ve had a look and plenty comments decrying the tone and inaccuracies. I can’t be bothered trying to educate an entire nation – if they want to believe all the crap the unionists are spouting off, then they are welcome. I would almost feel sorry for everyone for the lies we’ve all been told over the years. But I’m spending my energies working for a Yes vote to be too bothered about a pishy program on ch5.. there I feel better now.

  28. Peter A Bell says:

    Appalling! Couldn’t stand more than five minutes.

  29. Martyn says:

    Well – what a level of ignorance.  It even makes the BBC seem on the ball.
    Just watched this and my quite well mannered wife has just erupted into the most serious case of TV rage I have yet seen.

  30. Alba4Eva says:

    No more paying the TV licence for me… and listening to this shite, I must say, I’m clearly not missing anything.

  31. Donald Kerr says:

    Welcome to the debate Katie (What a gift!) – Here’s a couple of tweets:

    Katie Hopkins @KTHopkins
    Nicole Sturgeon could frighten a man to infertility.

    Katie Hopkins @KTHopkins
    Here is the blueprint for an Independent Scotland. It is 647 pages long. Waterstones are carrying it in the Fiction section.

    This footage deserves to be spread far and wide.
     

  32. kate says:

    Not so much a programme as programmed people, biased, ignorant, mis imnformed  individuals with an agenda-   keep it coming the Scots can see beyond their antics.    Project fear who fear Scotlands project.     Every dog has his day……………….they’ve had theirs and squandered it.

  33. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    I was with a man last week who was up from England in Scotland for the day on business, probably his first visit to Scotland. Talk turned to the Referendum. I confirmed that I would be voting YES.
    He said to me “What is it that you don’t like about the English?”

    I told him that I liked English people very much.
    I explained however that I had a very strong dislike for the Conservative Party, and was not a fan of politicians like David Cameron and George Osborne.
    I went on to explain that I really disliked the fact that when Scotland voted in Westminster elections, the chances were that we would not get the type of government we had voted for.
    He appeared then to understand my position.
    “I think the YES campaign will win”, I said.
    “Good luck!”, he said.
    I think he meant it.

  34. scotty says:

    jesus god above!!

  35. TheGreatBaldo says:

    Worth pointing out that a lot of the prejudice and ignorance spouted on that show comes from articles like this……
     
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/27/alistair-darling-alex-salmond-scotland-data-independence?commentpage=1
     
    Drivel like this from the likes of Carmichael and Darling fuel the sort of stuff seen on the Wright Stuff…..
     
    Eck do us a favour….forget about the smarmy Eton eejit for the time being….
     
    Get this sanctimonious hypocrite to agree to a televised debate …..then metaphorically rip his head off and shit down his neck

  36. call me dave says:

    It surprises me not, but that’s down South and they can’t vote. I think R Ancona is Scottish but claims ‘as she was English’ she was bullied.

    My cousin in Sheffield just cant understand it, what’s wrong Dave?  It’s just the way they have been fed the info.
     
    However in Scotland we have ‘very proud Scots indeed’ in our parliament who also think like this.  Caught the first hour of the WP debate this afternoon and that was not a pretty sight either.  The gloves are off and although making a pigs ear of it Lamont + Ruthie were vicious in their attack on the SG which will have rave reviews in the papers tomorrow. 

    I hope it went better after I had to go out but depressing stuff.

  37. Seasick Dave says:

    I got to 6 mins 30 seconds before putting my toes through my socks.
     
    Do I win a prize?

  38. Andy A says:

    Truly shocking !  Unfortunately the notion of us living on English handouts is still alive and well in parts of Scotland too. We still have a lot of work to do before next September

  39. braco says:

    That video posted to ‘every Scottish voter’ would need to be subtitled with the actual facts, as the panelists and Richard mouth the myths. I think this could be a very powerful  short video, as they seem to, as professionals, managed to raise just about every lie and pejorative in the British playbook, all in an incredibly efficiently manner.
     
    In this, and much more on the ‘domestic’ front, the YES campaign seems to becoming more and more like a prime example of the power of Judo.
     
    Come the 16 weeks, how will betterNO handle political Taekwondo?

     
    And then, the day before, a well judged but emotional Glasgow kiss! (politically speaking of course.
     
    Yes, I am getting (over) excited about coming home!

  40. call me dave says:

    TheGreatBaldo
    Just caught your post.  Today Cameron has officially turned down a debate with AS and says Darling should debate with Canavan.   Reason is it takes the heat of Cameron and better ‘together’ still, AS has nobody to debate with and that is a big plus for them.  
     
    AS will have to get round that somehow, because if he can’t debate with Cameron it will be seen as climb down by some.
     

  41. muttley79 says:

    This is all about political power.  The insults and personal attacks against Salmond and Sturgeon are recognition that the London power elite are scared and anxious.  The truth is that over the last 60 years or so they have lost a massive amount of power (or possessions).  That is what Scotland is to them.  We are a possession to make themselves feel big and powerful.  They are facing a massive challenge, and are reacting with irrationality and venom.  To the London establishment we are supposed to play the part of the tame jock, who never rocks the boat, and never demands equality.  Equality in this case is full self government.  The London establishment of course includes journalists who are happy to unquestionably parrot whatever the British state wants them to. 

  42. Brotyboy says:

    Staggering, just staggering.  But Rev, you’re dead right, this should be recorded for posterity and shown to everyone of voting age before the Indie vote.   It would be a walkover.

  43. Ekindy says:

    @Seasick Dave. Beat me hands down. Take yer pick.
     
    One thought. Could this be loaded up and shared (not too swift with gadgetry) somewhere that lots our youngsters might come across it. A couple of minutes of that nonsense should surely change a few minds !!

  44. Snowy Bottles says:

    Is it possible to put it on Youtube or Vimeo for those of us that live across the waters? Please?

  45. Tony Little says:

    Well, I couldn’t stomach more than four minutes.   Dear god, but let’s not forget that this ISN’T for the Scottish viewer, it’s for the xenophobic, borderline racist English “middle” that thinks that Scotland is some kind of unpleasant boarder. 
     
    We will have to overcome this level of bollox in the next ten months, and I now agree with TGB, lets have them ALL up here to debate with AS or NS.  And NOT at 10.55pm.  FFS this is the most important decision EVER that Scots will be asked to take.  Time for a proper media.

  46. JasonF says:

    Kirsty from Inverness needs to be given an official role with Yes Scotland.

  47. Andy-B says:

    O/T I do apologise if this has been posted previously.
     
    Ian Gray asking yesterday in Holyrood, standing up in front of all asunder, and demanding to know where the money will come from, to set up an oil fund, the whole gallery burst out laughing, Ian Gray however, looked completely bemused.
     
    See it here.
     
    http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/

  48. Geoff Huijer says:

    I managed about 3 minutes and gave up.

  49. Juteman says:

    I got to ‘we give them 40bn, and they only contribute 26bn’ before switching off.
    And she wonders why there is a referendum?

  50. creigs1707repeal says:

    Yes, a lot of ignorance on display there. But you know what–much of it is the level of voter ignorance that we have right here in Scotland. This is the drivel we are up against with a LOT of voters in this country.

  51. John H says:

    Yes utter pants …but this is like going back to the debate in Scotland around two years ago don’t you think? In terms of level of ignorance it matches conversations I’ve had. It’s moved on somewhat a step at a time. Same will happen down south. I’d imagine if I was a no voter after Katy Choobs diatribe on brain dead tv, I’d be seriously considering my no position.
     
    The undercurrent of racism if kept alive by Choobs like this will push people toward a yes vote. Some might think they are too wee etc …but they wont like getting the piss taken out of them.

  52. msean says:

    Petty and ill informed and only 2 mins in.

  53. Mike Hutchison says:

    Couldn’t finish it, I just couldn’t. 

  54. Dan Watt says:

    In other news, Better Together facebook page just gave an update:
     
    Absolutely massive #indyref story breaking in Madrid. The Spanish Prime Minister has just said that an independent Scotland would not be a member of the EU.

    More to follow.

  55. magnus barelegs says:

    London colonial mentality for all to see. They have never left the empire, the empire left them! Let them sneer, we will have the last laugh!

  56. Suzanne K says:

    Brilliant Rev. I told you it was bad didn’t I? In fact it’s so bad I don’t dare watch it again. Still a moody bitch from sitting through it this morning, hence the rabid tweets to you. 😉

  57. david says:

    sycaphantic self obsessed not particularly talented attention seekers sneering at their country dont mean much to most people.

  58. Jim Mitchell says:

    The Spanish Prime Minister may have his own agenda in mind, it’s called Catalonia. 

  59. kininvie says:

    Not point in getting all outraged….this mix of hurt feelings, misunderstanding, ignorance and huffiness about ‘ingratitude’ is a reaction so common in English history to any nation choosing not to belong that I’m surprised no psychologist has written a Phd on it (perhaps one has) American colonies, Ireland, India … etc etc. Contemporary accounts exhibit exactly the same complaints:

    To be fair, it is some considerable time since England (or the UK in latter days) backed up such sentiments with force, but that doesn’t mean the sentiments aren’t still there, even if their only outlets are trash TV or the House of Lords. And when we vote Yes, we can expect thereafter to be ignored – probably rather ostentatiously – by all the southern media and the chattering classes.
     
    It’s a shame really,  because it needn’t be like this. But the ‘if they want to be independent, they should just go away and get on with it’ sentiment is not confined to BTL comments in the Telegraph; it emerges in programmes like this one.

  60. magnus barelegs says:

    Dick Madeley should stick to shoplifting, cos he sure as hell knows nothing about Scotland, as for Ancona and that loudmouthed horse-faced woman uggghhhhh…….dont get me started!

  61. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    Sad, sad, sad. Who is going to explain to the rUK electorate that the country is broke and everything else has to be sold off to get IMF loans. The Haiti of europe, anyone?

  62. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It actually doesn’t matter wha these eejits think. In fact it is probably better they slumber on in their complacency and shout at indpendistas from time to time. 
    They don’t vote – but SE complacency willl I am sure lead to less of the frantic attack on YES from the London politcal troops
    It’s a bit like our EU position. Our response should be “Indside our outside the EU like Norway we are confident the Scotch peoplec  look after themselves, 

  63. What drivel! Scotland doesn’t want the BBC. How great it is to hear “US” talking about “THEM” on UK Channel 5.

  64. HandandShrimp says:

    We are still Better Together though?
     
    Irritating though it is I am sure stuff like this makes Better Together squirm and hope no one up here saw it.

  65. Andy Jones says:

    Just listened to the recorded discussion and it reflects the lack of understanding of Scotland. How many times did the presenter use the word foreigner? The grandiose statement made by the presenter stating English money and English taxes pay for Scotland is gross ignorance. Scotland pays more in tax to Westminster’s Treasury than England. I find it infuriating to hear that Scotland to govern itself is, too poor, too wee and too stupid. Scottish Independence reflects the aspirations of the people who live and work in Scotland, regardless of race, religion, colour or creed. Next stop…..INDEPENDENCE!

  66. msean says:

    Trying to play a racist card on all channels

  67. big_al says:

    I got to Highland clearances and had to give up. They just don’t get it.

  68. Jon D says:

    Latest mailer from Wee Ruth and her Conservative friend of the Union. Feel the Fear:
     
    “After months of anticipation, the Scottish Government launched ‘Scotland’s Future’ – the White Paper meant to give us all the answers.
     
    Much has been made of the size of yesterday’s paper – a full 650 pages. Joan McAlpine MSP, one of Alex Salmond’s closest advisers, even said it made America’s Declaration of Independence look like a “post-it note”, but it was more a case of ‘never mind the quality, feel the width’.
     
    For all the trees that perished in the making of this document, there’s very little in there that’s new. Assumptions on currency, pensions or EU membership remain assumptions without being backed up by any sort of evidence and little in the way of hard facts or possible alternatives.
     
    The White Paper, in fact, read like a taxpayer funded SNP manifesto. It contains swathes of uncosted pledges, exceptional in number even by SNP standards, ranging from renationalising Royal Mail, through scrapping Westminster welfare reforms to a childcare pledge that the SNP have the powers to deliver right now.
     
    When I challenged Nicola Sturgeon in the Chamber to outline how much 1,140 hours of free childcare for every child from one to school age – for that is the pledge – would cost, she could not.
     
    We now also know that the Scottish Government is planning to send summaries of the White Paper to every household in Scotland – paid for by you and me.
     
    This is what we are up against. Baseless assumptions and uncosted promises, funded by taxpayers.
     
    We know that Scotland is better off as part of the United Kingdom – that we walk taller, shout louder and stand stronger in the world for our Union with England Wales and Northern Ireland.
     
    We need your help to allow us to take this positive message to the voters of Scotland – you can donate to Friends of the Union by clicking here.
     
    Every penny raised will be used to fight to keep our United Kingdom together.
     
    Thank you.
     
    Ruth Davidson”
    or, “gie us yer dosh tae peddle mair pish”.

  69. msean says:

    They can keep the bbc,and they are welcome too it.good luck paying for hs2 and crossrail after independence.England will have to stand on its own feet soon,i’m not convinced they can make it.

  70. Grant_M says:

    Someone has uploaded the video to YouTube
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck

  71. liz says:

    I usually post on the guardian and the herald but I really couldn’t be bothered today as a lot of new commenters are on and it’s like going back a year or so with the same old ignorant comments.
     
    When you read comments from journalists and the likes of AD, it’s pathetic – they were determined to rubbish the WP no matter how detailed or good it was.
     
    There was a comment in the Herald from a man who lives in Govan – ‘I doubt anyone would be interested (in the WP) and I’m not politically minded’ – no wonder the likes of JoLa get voted in.
     
    After yesterday’s high I suppose it was inevitable to feel a bit down today.
     
    Still there’s always tomorrow.

  72. Greg says:

    If everyone could join and leave these thoughts on their Facebook page, they might address their mistakes in the morning. https://www.facebook.com/officialwrightstuff

  73. msean says:

    William Paterson,a Scot, came up with the idea of the bank of england.Nationalised in 1946,its a uk asset,not an english one.The name is coincidental.

  74. Ronnie says:

    Astoundingly ignorant. Really quite shockingly out of touch. We give them our money, ye gods. They are taking it personally as a rejection. Awww , now it is.

  75. alexicon says:

    For those who want to se this on Youtube.
     
    With pleasure.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/xm5EBDa42ck

  76. david says:

    After yesterday’s high I suppose it was inevitable to feel a bit down today
     
    same here

  77. Colin says:

    Oh Dear!! car crash tv at it’s british best.  It’s quite clear these lot know nothing about Scotland or politic’s here.   I have english cousins who wouldn’t speak to me like these clowns spoke to their callers.

  78. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Hi. I’ve screen recorded the whole thing. It was….. interesting. Will see to it that the footage is uploaded onto YouTube as soon as possible.”

    Great work. Post now edited to point to YouTube link.

  79. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    We’ve had a procession of people in looking for the WP and signing the Declaration in our YES shop in Dunoon. The continuous over the top attack is backfiring with lots of people who are getting really annoyed about it.
    Everybody should factor into their responses to this the widespread lack of esteem for Alistair Darling and many other BT figures. Don’t forget either that Channel Five is a stablemate of the Express and soft porn stations. At the risk of offending anyone on here who watches Channel Five it has no serious programming whatsoever.

  80. Eilidh says:

    I lasted 8 minutes – do I get a prize? 
    The ignorance on display isn’t really all that surprising but it makes me wonder if a Scottish Labour (sic) MP or MSP would correct any of the bile the panel were spouting. Doubt it.

  81. Horacesaysyes says:

    @Jon D – Davidson says that ‘we walk taller, shout louder and stand stronger in the world for our Union with England Wales and Northern Ireland’.
     
    I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t particularly want to shout at anyone, and in fact actively try to avoid anyone who does.

  82. Ken says:

    We began the year with Ray Winstone encouraging a Have I Got News For You audience to tell Scots to bugger off. Now we’re ending it with this tripe. Almost a whole year passes and their ignorance and arrogance grows. What will 2014 bring. The funniest part though was when they moved on to the newspaper headlines, which showed just how wonderful life is in 21st century UK.

  83. Robert Louis says:

    This was an appalling piece of broadcasting.  It is racist.  Simply swap out the word Scots or Scotland with ANY ethnic minority, and it becomes obvious.  However, no action will be taken, as it is deemed OK to make racist jibes against Scots on national TV – yet another benefit of this undemocratic, unwanted political union with England.
     
    On the upside however, what came across to me from the last few days coverage is that once again, The First Minister of Scotland has moved the debate on to the next stage.  Frankly, most normal people care little for technical discussions about sterling, they are much more interested in what can be achieved with independence, and THAT is what the White paper has shown.
     
    Scotland is an extremely wealthy country, yet right now ANY increase in GDP (revenues) goes straight to London, and we may, if we are lucky, get a tiny fraction back.  With independence, growth and increased revenues provides us the money to undertake a real revolution in childcare among other things.  Just think, we would no longer be funding illegal wars, or paying for the disgraceful nuclear bombs stored on the clyde – as one MSP put it, ‘bairns NOT bombs’.
     
    The Sottish economy has an identical GDP to rUK, but has the added bonus of oil revenues on top, which currently go directly to London, and with independence would come to Scotland to be spent here.
     
    To me, this week has pushed the debate forward, and now the questions need asked of the anti independence unionists, ‘What is YOUR vision for Scotland if we stay in the union??’.  The silence is deafening.
     
    You can vote NO for absolutely nothing to get better, or you can vote YES for an aspirational change, to make all of our lives better.  It’s a bit of a no-brainer really.

  84. Robert Louis says:

    Oh, and just as an aside, I and everybody else in Scotland is still waiting to hear the ‘positive case for the union’.
     
    I think hell might freeze over first.

  85. msean says:

    In what way is one in 1 in 5 akin to 38%?Amongst  the queens’ ancestors can be counted Robert the Bruce.Her own Mother was a Scot,making her 50% Scots.Of course,we all get a boost when the princes visit the england squad(forgetting the other 3 nations involved here but they don’t count,eh?).The disrespect awarded to ‘Salmond’ is unbelievable,have i missed a murder conviction or something?’What have we done wrong?’ you hear them say.ffs.Ronnie,i didn’t realise you were Scottish.Another one that sighs with relief when the accent is lost i presume.

  86. alexicon says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    27 November, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    “Hi. I’ve screen recorded the whole thing. It was….. interesting. Will see to it that the footage is uploaded onto YouTube as soon as possible.”
    Great work. Post now edited to point to YouTube link.
     
    See my post above.

  87. Robbie says:

     Isn’t Dickhead Madely a shop lifter, he got caught thieving booze from a supermarket i think.
    Let them all wallow in their racist ignorance.
     

  88. Murray McCallum says:

    When SoS Carmichael and Darling are doing the rounds saying what a hopeless case an independent Scotland would be, its little wonder idiots like Madeley and his panel feel so open to dish out this crap.
     
    Taking our queen, our pound, our central bank (obviously these “good” things can having nothing to do with Scots) … cherry picking, etc is what Lamont, Davidson and Rennie basically spout every chance they get on TV.

  89. Marcia says:

    I shan’t watch, reading your twitter about it was enough.
     
    Re EU this is a good read;
    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/no-campaign-eu-membership-myth-falls-apart/

  90. Snowy Bottles says:

    Thankyou for the YouTube Link. So far 5 mins through and still watching:-)
     

  91. Ken500 says:

    The Spanish MP saying Scotland will be member ‘in due course’, is saying Scotland will not be an EU member? according to BT. Ie there will be negotiations.

    Lost in translation. BT double Dutch.

    Last time Newsnetscotland took the claims to pieces. The Spanish Foreign Minister then said ‘it was an internal matter for the UK’. Spain want Catalonia in the EU. Catalonia wants fiscal autonomy. Murcia has fiscal autonomy. Catalonia is arguing about €5million Euros going to the Spansh gov.

    The UK gov could just ask the EU, the question.

  92. msean says:

    This entire charade proves that when you have no impartial, independent media you may as well live in a dictatorship.ch 5 owned by same individual who owns porn channels and certain daily newspapers we all love.

  93. TheGreatBaldo says:

    A couple of things…..
     
    Anyone know if there is a particular theme/topic for tonights STV Debate ? The one with Anus was about Welfare….
     
    Anyone know where I can watch this afternoons debate at Holyrood ? 

  94. James Morton says:

    Wow – I had a bad attack of the “British Cringe” when listening to this one. At this present moment in time the only thing I think of when I ever think of Britishness, is a deep sense of shame. I am shamed by this union and what it has done in the last three years in my name. All I can say about this programme, is that it underscores how little the Scots & English understand one another & how flimsy the union has become.

  95. Papadocx says:

    Aye Better Together. The parasites can suck the life out of us while they have the upper hand.
    helped and abated by the ("Quizmaster" - Ed) ("Tractor" - Ed)s of the unionist parties. Who are well rewarded for their treachery. 
     
    Then they tell you we need England, we couldn’t do it ourselves.
     
    They rob us blind treat us like morons and tell us we should be grateful. Is that how you want to be treated?  THEN WHY EVEN THINK OF VOTING NO.  YES, YES  

  96. alexicon says:

    alexicon says:
    27 November, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    27 November, 2013 at 7:45 pm
    “Hi. I’ve screen recorded the whole thing. It was….. interesting. Will see to it that the footage is uploaded onto YouTube as soon as possible.”
    Great work. Post now edited to point to YouTube link.
     
    See my post above.
     
    Also see Grant_M post. 🙂

  97. Ruairidh says:

    Someone seek out Kirsty from the “Shire” of Inverness and give her a medal. The reaction of that blonde dimwit on hearing about our democratic deficit was all telling and the highlight for me. Folks look at this as the car crash that it actually is, pity them, that is all.

  98. Roboscot says:

    Ruth Davidson: ‘we walk taller, shout louder and stand stronger in the world for our Union with England Wales and Northern Ireland’.
     
    And when they see us coming, Ruth, they say: ‘there’s that arrogant, loud-mouthed bully’.

  99. braco says:

    I must say that the gently spoken woman from Inverness put forward the ‘no frills’ basic reasons for self determination incredibly well.
     
    I don’t think it fitted the programme’s demographic at all, but folk from Scotland will have heard. 10 out of 10!
     
    It just needed one other caller to hit the numbers (wonder why that didn’t happen?)……but that don’t matter, we can all do that.
     
    Won’t we.

  100. Robert Louis says:

    Today on politics Scotland, the BBC political correspondent in Westminster, finished interviewing several MP’s outside Westminster, on the subject of the white paper, then at the end, pointed out, that he didn’t have a copy of the white paper yet, and maybe somebody could send him one.
     
    Aye, informative and on the button, good old BBC Scotland.

  101. Busybee says:

    Oh My GOD!!
    I actually feel violated!  Unadulterated racism and these people (who should know better) should hang their heads in shame. Unbelievable! Well to be honest you’d expect that kind of headline grabbing nonsense from KH but the rest of them?!? Unforgivable in my view.
    I probably won’t sleep tonight, my stomach is in knots with frustration. Surely something can be done to stop this biased journalistic claptrap.

  102. EdinScot says:

    Even their non political Scottish viewers will be enraged by this gross insult passed off as a debate.  Theyre doing all our work for us even supplying us with the ammunition!  No wonder London has a p**s poor record of holding on to their former colonies/terrotiries. The Scottish Government gives us a detailed 670 plus page of the White Paper and London gives us this drivel.  Go figure.  No wonder more and more Scots want to exit this suffocating and toxic Union.

  103. Arabs for Independence says:

    “What have we done wrong – I mean we give them our english taxpayers money…”
    “We turn the clocks back for Scotland – it’s a pain in the neck but we do it for Scotland”
     
    Does anyone know how to repair a computer that has had its screen kicked in?

  104. Bunter says:

    Shared faaaaaaaaar and wide.

  105. big_al says:

    In case anyone missed it, here it is:
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck

  106. beachthistle says:

    After watching all of this I could handle (6 minutes) I’m reminded of Robin McAlpine saying at RIC on Saturday that Scotland has paid for/own 22 London Underground stations  – as the Underground is classified as ‘national’ (i.e. UK) infrastructure and our population share of its 270 stations is 22.
     
    Robin joked that instead of the money/compensation we should choose to keep some stations. For instance Westminster – and close it down, so that  Scottish WM troughers would have a long walk to work!
     
    Would be a good lesson for some London media villagers and bubblers too! Which is the nearest station to Channel 5 studio/head office? Tower Hill?

  107. Grant_M says:

    Finally managed to sit through the whole 20 minutes. Wow!
     
    Thanks for putting it on YouTube. Will be sharing this far and wide.
     
     
     
     

  108. handclapping says:

    £140 each and every year to be allowed to watch TV like this? I managed 3:41 and decided life is too short. I have to admire the stamina of those that watched it but I’ll carry on doing without TV and save my £140, my time and my sanity.

  109. Morag says:

    I watched it all.  Is there a prize?
     
    The problem is, the sort of people who might watch this, in Scotland, are likely to believe all that rubbish about Scotland being given England’s money, and wanting to keep the good bits and so on.  The idea of the subtitled version might be worth exploring.
     
    Yes it was all lies, but BT and their friends in the media are busy telling that lie for all they’re worth, to the point where people believe it must be true and even reject the truth when it’s shown to them.

  110. willie fae Irvine says:

    Didn’t make it to the end. Respect/sympathy, to those who did.

  111. gman says:

    And the caller from Glasgow was going to vote no to protect free prescriptions.
     

  112. Arabs for Independence says:

    Scottish Sunday Express poll stated that 640,000 Scots would leave if Yes vote; readership of Scottish Sunday Express is 33,000

  113. gordoz says:

    Ms Ancona has now become ‘English’ (apparently ?) and was bullied at school because of this (?) – best get her mug and this pathetic drivel out to the wider public, (like Barrowman) a gift really if you think about it.
     
    ” When we’re away we just run the place down everychance we get; the English lap it up anyway – keeps the money rollin in get it ! “
     
    Got to get this out to the undecided – christ get it out to the Proudscots / Britscots they’ll lap this pish up n all.
     
    MacDougall will need a change of troosers !

  114. Better Together St Kilda says:

    No definitive answers on East Enders, Dr Who and other important matters.

  115. Garve says:

    I set myself up to watch this thinking that Richard Madely is a decent chap, and if he’s said anything offensive it’ll be through a genuine ignorance of the facts.
     
    That’s not what I think now.
     
    Well done to Kirsty from Inverness-shire who made a very good stab at correcting him though, well done to her.

  116. Fkin hell – so much ignorance in so few minutes.  “What have we done wrong – we give them our money.”  FFS.

  117. GrutsForTea says:

    That was truly appalling. After independence there are going to be a lot of people looking back and cringing at the ridiculous things they’ve said.
     
    My personal experience is that more and more people are noticing the clumsy media propaganda. And a lot of the time without visiting sites like Wings. Every time they score an own goal they lose votes. Every time someone engages with the information they become a Yes vote. Then there is the huge untapped resource of otherwise non-voters, who largely feel disenfranchised from mainstream politics and would relish the chance to upset the constitutional apple cart. Lots of votes to be had.
     
    We’re going to do this.

  118. muttley79 says:

    This whole EU fiasco is interesting.  I was lead to believe that the EU issue was a strong argument for Yes.  I reckon this Spanish thing is to do with Catalonia.  However, will this action by the Spanish PM not piss off the rest of the EU severely?  Spain have not even been a democracy for that long…

  119. gordoz says:

    Arabs for Independence says –
    Sounds like biblical exodus of south looking envious Proudscots / Britscots / Orange Order / Blue Battalion and other assorted disgruntled backsliding gits (Might even include Darling, Sarwar, Lamont, Curran, Davidson who knows ?)
     
    Will just be right thinking aspirational folk who like this place and have invested in this place, including ordinary mundane Scots with a vision and desire for a transformational, nordic societal change, for our wee corner of the world !
     
    Whats not to like ? Its all good!

  120. Snowy Bottles says:

    I was able to get through it. First I have to say I don’t have a clue who any of the panelists were. It made me feel more saddened than angry. Richard is hopelessly ill-informed and tried to analyse the topic like an agony aunt on Good Morning. The chap on there seems very sweet. Katie Hopkins was all show for the cameras. Ronni was also sweet. These poor saps are getting there education from MSM. I’m sure many of us were not too dissimilar a while ago.

  121. turnbull drier says:

    Wow… just wow..
     
    10 min I lasted, but.. nope I’m speechless… I have nothing.. I’m gonna sit here and shake my head for a decade or two..
     
    Oh, “and we put the clocks back for them..”  unf**kingbelievable…

  122. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Dear Rev Stu,
        As much as it pains me to say this, I will shortly be having my solicitors get in contact with you to bill you for several items, due to your sending me links to abject shite…. to whit;

    One CRT Monitor (belonged to my 82 year old Mother – now lying 7 floors lower down)
    One PC base unit (sitting beside the monitor)
    One bottle cider (I had to consume it due to the emergency rage)
    One 82 year old Mother (who do you think followed the pc gear out of the window when she tried to calm me down?)

    Thank you for your attention, and I await your reply…

    Angry of an Independent Scotland

  123. gerry parker says:

    Aye well – that’s us put in oor place then.
    g.p

  124. Early Ball says:

    Madeley even lied about seeing Archie Gemmill in the 1974 World Cup. He did not make the squad.

  125. DaveyM says:

    I made it to about five minutes.  Urgh.

  126. Kevin says:

    Well I,m English, and I’ve worked in and visited Scotland many times over the years, and hopefully will continue to do so for many more years to come. I have no special attachment to the UK as an entity, not England even given the thieving bastards running the place at the moment, it isnt just Scotland the coalition dont give a toss about, they would fuck any part of the UK over ( and do) if you arent a Coalition ( preferably Tory ) voter. Their attitude is “you are either with us or against us”, and given that the Tory vote is rarer than rocking horse shit North of the border, you are very much against them. However Scotland votes, I wont be up in arms about it,  just hope they continue to let me in if they go it alone…and as for Katie Hopkins…thick as mince…someone extending their 5 minutes fame to 10 by being as intentionally thick and cretinous as possible.

  127. Chic McGregor says:

    It s more sad than frightening.  The English people have been brainwashed by the propaganda of the ruling UK ‘elite.  It is not their fault they believe what they have been told anymore than it is for those Scots who also do so despite having the potential to learn something closer to the truth from this site and others and from Yes campaigners.
     
    I really feel sorry and not a little guilty at the harsh realities which will come home to the ordinary English people when Scotland votes yes.
     
    I console myself with the thought that, ultimately, the best chance the English people themselves have for something approaching normal government would be the motivating example of one with which they share a land border and language rather than those safely across the Channel.

  128. Red-Sonya says:

    omfg i am so angry and wtf is rent a gob ( Katie Hopkins) talking about she knows nothing about nothing i would like to see her say what she said to AS face.And why do the engerlish always think everything is about them.Time to get away from these fkg idiots

  129. Stuart Black says:

    Watched the whole thing with surprising calmness. The Hopkins woman is vile and, astonishingly claims to be 38, she must have spent too much time in the sun, but I found Ancona’s performance far more depressing, the Scottish cringe in full flow.
     
    Madeley’s ignorance was staggering, how many times did he say we send them loads of money and  still they hate us? The subsidy junky thing still has great resonance down there then.
     
    Leeann from Glasgow, where else, supports the union, thinks that free prescriptions will go after a Yes vote, and claims that the treatment meted out to her from English work colleagues in London was severe enough that, if directed towards brown folk, it would have warranted police intervention. Mmm…
     
    Whatever else it does, it gives the lie to the chestnut that we are equal partners in a union of equals. Regardless of how many times they spout their protestations of deep and abiding love for the Scots.

  130. gordoz says:

    @ Stuart Black
    “Some are more equal than others ? ”
     

  131. annie says:

    I only lasted about 10 mins I listened with earphones in so my husband didn’t hear it, I could barely speak afterwards, husband thinks he’s in the doghouse.  How can these people be so ignorant and ill-informed and be on national tv.  Wasn’t it only a couple of weeks ago Edwina Currie was informing us Alex Salmond was in the Labour Party when first an MP.

  132. Stuart Black says:

    6,400
     
    64.000
     
    640,000
     
    Did anyone think, for the merest nanosecond, that there could be any other answer than the third one?

  133. turnip_ghost says:

    Well, it’s now going viral. I’ve seen at least 6 people on my FB linking to the Youtube link. And a couple of them aren’t even Yes people. They are none to pleased if this is the “Better Together” they’re being told about….

  134. Papadocx says:

    Arabs forindependence 8:31
    Special offer for the proud refugees to Engerland. 50 for 1 If eye go noo! 
     
    I am proud of Scotland and I would rather clean it up before we go our own ways. Thank You!
    and take the F***** express trash wi yi GOOD BYE.

  135. dinnatouch says:

    I watched it all.
    God, I watched it all *weep*

  136. The Rough Bounds says:

    Well guys, I’m sorry if this sounds smug for it isn’t meant to be, but rather than shout at the TV and punch the wall beside me I just went onto my computer and donated £50 to Yes Scotland.
     
    I feel a lot better.

  137. Atypical_Scot says:

    No joke. Three people I have spoken to today, denounced independence on the grounds of that tv. 
     
    Barf.

  138. BuckieBraes says:

    ‘They’, ‘They’, ‘They’, ‘They’…
     
    I thought these folk were meant to be broadcasting to a UK audience. Whatever happened to being ‘better together’? Equal partners in the Union?
     
    Care to comment, Mr Darling? Mr McDougall?

  139. theycan'tbeserious says:

    “Nemo me impune lacessit”

  140. gordoz says:

    Atypical_Scot
    Take it they were Proudscots ?

  141. The Rough Bounds says:

    A guy gets a scorpion and makes it a pet. He feeds it and looks after it. One day the scorpion stings him.
    ”Why on earth did you do that? I have been friendly to you and taken you into my home”.
    The scorpion says, ”Because I am a scorpion!
     
    The British unionists are the scorpion of this story. They do what they do because they are what they are.
     
    The guy took an axe and killed the scorpion.

  142. Sandy Milne says:

    Best bit of comedy I’ve seen in a long long time. Obviously a wind up. Madeley has always been a complete and utter prat and as for Katie Hopkins she will say anything just for a little attention. The other 2? well what can you say, the paycheque must have been worth it

  143. Morag says:

    The one I heard was about a fox swimming across a river and the scorpion asking to be carried on the fox’s back.  The fox was reluctant, saying the scorpion would sting him.  The scorpion said of course not, because it couldn’t swim and if it stung and poisoned the fox, it would drown along with the poisoned fox.
     
    So the fox agreed and the pair set off across the river.  In midstream the scorpion stung the fox.  “Why did you do that?” asked the dying fox.  “Because I am a scorpion,” replied the scorpion, as it was swept away in the river.

  144. Jim Mitchell says:

    Remember folks however nasty things have been so far, we still have not encountered anything that couldn’t have been expected, the opposition doesn’t change, they can’t, we can only make them change

  145. Alba4Eva says:

    Stuart Black… something you said was quite profound.  It just made me think that when I consider the Scottish Independence question, I never think about the English.  It just doesn’t register with me.  I am instead usually visualising Scotlands future… what direction we will travel… how we will improve things… etc.
    If only these idiots had a similar intellectual understanding of their own future and country, then maybe they would at least stand a chance of understanding the direction of travel Scotland is on.

  146. Castle Rock says:

    @Peter Mirtitsch
     
    “…One 82 year old Mother (who do you think followed the pc gear out of the window when she tried to calm me down?)”
     
    The English might steal our money but they will never take away our HUMOUR!
     
    Needed a laugh after watching that.
     

  147. gerry parker says:

    I think we should set up a group hug for all those people who managed to watch it to the end. I only made it to the 5 minute mark.
     
    <big>Grouphug</big>

  148. Marcia says:

    A personal journey towards a Yes vote from a regular poster on Mungiun’s Republic who is no longer a No.
     
    http://civicjungle.blogspot.co.uk/

  149. BuckieBraes says:

    I like arachnids, and so sympathise with the scorpion. A better fable is needed.

  150. Kevin Lynch says:

    Wow. The sheer level of ignorance in that audio clip is staggering. And I’m not even talking about Scottish independence. How can they be so bemused as to why a newly independent country that is part of the Common Wealth would have the same head of state as all other Common Wealth countries?

  151. The Rough Bounds says:

    @buckiebraes
     
    You sympathise with the Scorpion?
    ”A better fable is needed” ???
     
    Maybe some of you need to read a previous posting of mine and just get away from your screen and go and make yourselves useful and donate £50 like me to Yes Scotland.

  152. Davy says:

    “Nemo me impune lacessit” – no-one touchs me with impunity,
     
    I enjoyed watching that, it not only shows their ignorance it also give us ammunition to use in the future.
     
    And for anyone who didn’t know how the south of England thought about us, you have now been fully informed.

  153. Cindie aka CR says:

    The worst combination ignorance and arrogance, and Katie Hopkins is the woman that the word odious was invented for.  Cudos to those who watched it all the way through, I’m afraid I couldn’t.  It definitely seems to have gone viral tonight on FB though, which can surely only be good for the yes campaign. 

  154. steviecosmic says:

    Why would anyone here be surprised at any of this? It happens BTL in almost 100% of any printed press articles related to independence, so why should a cheap TV talk show be any different?
     
    This is what happens when a reckless and irresponsible media are allowed to run amok, unchecked and unchallenged, feeding an entire nation on a diet of hatred and lies for decades. There could not have been any other outcome, and I do not expect it to get any better anytime soon if things continue as they are. 
     
    I don’t know how you even begin to attempt to counter this. Perhaps you don’t? Perhaps you simply persist in the good fight to bring you’re own folk on board to the cause by exposing them to as much information as you possibly can, and just accept that those south of the border are collateral damage due to friendly fire. 

  155. Bill C says:

    Just posted the following on the programme’s Facebook page:”Offensive, ignorant and casual racist comments from today’s panel on Scottish independence. Disgusted at the ignorance of the panel on such an important subject. Your programme should issue an immediate apology on their behalf to the nation of Scotland.”

  156. Caitlin says:

    Yes these are careless sentiments to make but they differ in no way from the kind of Anti-English rhetoric that Alex Salmond has been spouting for the last 6 years.  Why is it okay for pro-independence supporters to claim the English distribute our taxes unfairly yet they can’t say that we receive subsidies from them? It makes absolutely no sense!

    This entire debate/campaign/decision is completely based on perceptions and outdated divide instead of facts and statistics.

  157. Morag says:

    It definitely seems to have gone viral tonight on FB though, which can surely only be good for the yes campaign.
     
    I’d be happier about that if it was the subtitled version someone talked about that had gone viral….

  158. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Yes these are careless sentiments to make but they differ in no way from the kind of Anti-English rhetoric that Alex Salmond has been spouting for the last 6 years.”

    We’re all standing by keenly awaiting your links to examples of Alex Salmond spouting “anti-English rhetoric”. Start any time you like.

  159. Red squirrel says:

    Who on earth are these folk? The level of ignorance is astonishing, eclipsed only by the arrogance.
     
    Well done Kirsty for puting forward such a clear argument.

  160. muttley79 says:

    @Caitlin
     
    Yes these are careless sentiments to make but they differ in no way from the kind of Anti-English rhetoric that Alex Salmond has been spouting for the last 6 years.  Why is it okay for pro-independence supporters to claim the English distribute our taxes unfairly yet they can’t say that we receive subsidies from them? It makes absolutely no sense!
     
    Please say you are you referring to when Salmond called Cameron and Osborne “Lord Snotty’s” (ala Daily Telegraph)?  He has said London (rule) and Westminster in the past.  Is this being anti-English in your opinion?  I see you think Scotland is a subsidy junky.  Are you a cringing Scot as your post refers to “we”? 

  161. crisiscult says:

    Regarding Spanish Prime Minister’s comments (reported on STV website), does anyone know if he’s said directly to the effect that Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to maintain membership of the EU and that in 2016 it is their clear position that Scotland must exit the EU and apply for membership and that this application will be opposed by Spain? The reason I ask is because all the comments I hear (mostly from Spanish politicians) seem to skirt around the issue somewhat. I’d like a clear comment similar to the one I’m looking for from the British Government that if they are in power in 2015-6 they will not allow a currency union and that this will not be included in the settlement.

  162. Jeannie says:

    @Caitlin
     
     Why is it okay for pro-independence supporters to claim the English distribute our taxes unfairly yet they can’t say that we receive subsidies from them?
     
    You see, Caitlin, this is what I don’t understand – I don’t understand why it is that you can’t tell the difference between “the English” and the Westminster Government.  If we criticise the government, we are accused of being anti-English.  We are perfectly entitled to criticise a government of any complexion when we disagree with what they are doing.  The Westminster Government is made up of MPs who come from all parts of the UK.  The second chamber, the House of Lords, is also made up of people from all parts of the UK.  Please explain how disagreeing with their policies somehow becomes specifically “anti-English”.

  163. BuckieBraes says:

    @The Rough Bounds
     
    On the financial front, for the past few days I’ve been fretting about how the switching of my current account will affect Yes Scotland.
     
    But I still like arachnids.

  164. Cindie aka CR says:

    @Morag, 10.12pm what was the subtitled version, does anyone have a link?
     
    @Caitlin 10.11pm I’ve never heard Alex Salmond use any anti-English rhetoric can you please provide links to substantiate your claim? 
     
    Also can you clarify, do you mean that the programme shared above: ‘is completely based on perceptions and outdated divide instead of facts and statistics.’  If so then I completely agree with you.  

  165. crisiscult says:

    By the way, had never heard of Ms Ancona before. Just checked her wikipedia page. Doesn’t say anything about her English father. Probably needs updated. Mentions she went to School in Troon, though nothing about being abused for her English background. Again, needs updating. 

  166. Ellie says:

    Personally I’m not bothered about this; (the day I let Richard Madley and Katie Hopkins opinions about anything bother me is the day I move to an island off the west coast and become a hermit) In fact I’m actually disappointed that that is the best they can come up with.
    This ignorance and yes abuse, I think we have to make the effort to understand it because they certainly don’t.  It’s coming from a place of fear, impotent fear.  Think about it from the panel on the Wright STuff’s perspective; their world could be about to change completely.  Everything they are certain of; flag, government, heck even the name of their country might be about to disappear and they have absolutely no say in it.  All they can do is stand on the sidelines and shout for attention, and well, making it offensive does at least get them noticed.
    This is a sideshow, entertaining as heck but totally irrelevant to anyone who actually has a vote.  Let’s keep our eyes on the prize; this stuff just serves as distraction

  167. muttley79 says:

    @Jeannie
     
    They (and this includes the poster named Caitlin) know fine well that supporting independence does not mean you are anti-English.  They have no positive case for the Union.  They know it and we know it.  They are attempting to prevent change by smears and abuse.  It has not worked in the past and there is no reason to say it will work now.  

  168. Edward says:

    Just stated on ITV News at Ten that Spain have stated that they will veto any application by Scotland for EU membership

  169. HandandShrimp says:

    I only know of this Katie person because my sister in law detests her with an absolute vengeance. The epitome of ignorance wrapped in arrogance….nothing to do with politics as far as I know and more to do with other pieces of social commentary. She is someone who I think makes a living out of being objectionable. I confess I have no idea who the others are and I have never heard of the programme or Richard whatever.

  170. Arabs for Independence says:

    3 presenters + JL against John Swinney on BBC2 right now

  171. Krackerman says:

    Yeah – watching it – it’s a train wreck – steamrolled on the Spanish PM question – I wish Swinney had more balls at a time – I’d have loudly and insistently repeated “Did the Spanish PM say he would vote against Scottish membership of the EU or not”…
    Cause he didn’t say that – but Swinney just let them get away with insinuating that he did…

  172. crisiscult says:

    Thanks Edward. Need to track down the full interview; based on an article in the Guardian it seems quite categorical, although the comment ‘would remain out of the EU’… is that a translation? Is he really saying Spain would permanently block membership, and would Germany and France, two of the founders aiming for deeper integration and bringing ALL of Europe on board (ignoring for a second the resources and citizens they are attempting to banish), accept that?  

  173. Ellie says:

    As to Europe.  Given what we’ve seen of the structure and management of the European Union I don’t think not being part of it is as terrible as a lot of people seem to think it will be.  Given what we’ve seen the European Union do in the past two years to protect the institution of Europe – not the people of Europe – and if they truly consider self determination for people to be a nicety rather than a necessity then we need to think whether we want anything more than a trading relationship with them.  

  174. Morag says:

    @Morag, 10.12pm what was the subtitled version, does anyone have a link?
     
    Sorry, Cindie, I wasn’t clear.  Someone suggested that a version of the video should be created with the true facts printed on-screen to read along with the lies coming from the speakers.  I don’t believe anything has actually been produced though.

  175. Wp says:

    Guys,can’t be bothered googling it but what are the stats for what we give them and get back?

  176. Krackerman says:

    JESUS SWINNEY – GROW SOME BLOODY BALLS!

  177. Cindie aka CR says:

    @Morag, oh okay, thanks, that version does sound like a good idea!

  178. Krackerman says:

    Ahhhh fk-man – now Sturgeon is getting the “Spanish bloody PM” question rammed at her – FIGHT BACK !
     

  179. Krackerman says:

    She’s doing better though – much more even handed approach from the STV. Carmichael getting a mauling from the host – good on you 🙂

  180. Malcolm Evans says:

    Such English arrogance. Who says the Queen is English? Has she ever claimed that?As for Ronni, Uncle Tom comes to mind, though he has been grossly misrepresented, I refer to the popular view.Let’s deal with Katie Hopkins, on second thoughts, let’s not. She has never had a thought based in reality, so let’s just ignore her, eh?
    Madely? Let’s ignore him, too. Just because he is Madely, surely that’s enough.

  181. Krackerman says:

    Ooooooh Carmichael already played the “Scottish banks” card – what a f**** s***** C**** of a f** f**** P*** of a man. 

  182. Krackerman says:

    On the plus side – Carmichael is really, really, really cr@p at debating…. A real dead fish…

  183. This kind of arrogance, of people like Ms Hopkins only further concerns me about what future I’d be voting for if I voted ‘NO’
    She claims ‘they want our queen’ (erm, the monarchy is probably a timeshare between Scotland and Hanover if anything!). Then she claims the Scots want ‘our currency’ (somebody please inform her that the bank of england was founded by a Scotsman, on the economy theories of another Scotsman… and powered by the enlightenment ideas of yet another Scotsman … i.e David Hume, Adam Smith et cetera)
     
    But these aren’t the primary points I wanted to make. I am more interested in the future of devo-max if we vote NO in 2014. As a devo-max supporter, and labour party member, I for one am rapidly coming to the conclusion Denis Canavan has been correct all along. If we want those kinds of powers, we just will never get them if we vote NO.
     
    And that is a reality which breaks this former unionists heart. But surely its time to face facts, and run those percentages of likelihood!
     
    I blogged on this, my personal journey away from the BetterTogether camp: http://civicjungle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/indyref-why-im-considering-voting-yes.html

  184. Edward says:

    Did Carmichael just say (quoting the IFS Report) that if Scotland stays in the UK they will pay more tax?

  185. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Throbbing in the temples just receding…
    The Wright show has a history of this, Scotland discussed by London luvvies as if we were  faintly disgusting amoebas under a microscope.
    Spread this far and wide people.
    What about subtitles on this clip actually telling the truth?
     

  186. steviecosmic says:

    Can someone find out just what exactly the Spanish PM said?
     

  187. steviecosmic says:

    Killer blow!
     

  188. Krackerman says:

    HAHAHAHA Sturgeon is filleting the dead fish live on STV – a thing of great beauty 🙂
    HOLY COW – She actually just said “you obviously think that thousands of more kids in poverty is a price worth paying for you to keep your seat”
    God I love this woman! 😀

  189. Ken says:

    Haven’t had a TV license for a year now so can’t comment on debates regarding Spanish PM. Timing suspicious though. Wouldn’t surprise me if some sort of collusion had taken place between Spanish and London governments. You scratch my back …..  

  190. Krackerman says:

    Oh GAWD – you have to see this – the dead fish is coming apart at the seams 😀
    He’s a bloody moron! 😀

  191. Dcanmore says:

    BBC states that the Spanish PM has suggested that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate entry into the EU from the outside… However Mr Rajoy did not say he would seek to block an independent Scotland’s subsequent entry to the EU.

  192. Dougthedug says:

    If Spain objects to Scotland’s membership of the EC and the other states knuckle under then we join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and gain access to the European Economic Area (EEA) agreement which provides for free movement of goods, services, persons and capital across the European Union.

    Then we impose a 200 mile fishery limit bases on our coastline and Rockall and tell all the EU fishermen to fuck off. Especially the Spanish ones.
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/07/2403/5

  193. Calum Craig says:

    OK, I have watched ten minutes and I now need to turn on GTA and go shoot some people because the ignorance and arrogance displayed by that bunch of (must resist swearing in public) ignoramuses just makes my blood boil.

  194. Krackerman says:

    “Surely Alastair you can hold you own – don’t look to Rhona for help” – “I can certainly hold my own”… Oh no you bloody can’t you dead fish of a secretary of state for Portsmouth !!! HAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAa
    It’s bloody GOLD DUST on STV right now 😀

  195. Arabs for Independence says:

    Carmichael is being slaughtered. NS is wiping the floor with him

  196. Krackerman says:

    Oh god – it keeps going on – Jesus, the dead fish is losing the rag now – getting patronising and tetchy – I’m watching him end his career live on TV…
    HAHAHAH right now I’d have Sturgeons babies 😀

  197. steviecosmic says:

    Nichola wins
    🙂

  198. muttley79 says:

    What are the odds of that they will say it was a draw again?  Surely not again?

  199. HandandShrimp says:

    Doug
     
    That is pretty much my view. We will have enough to keep us busy without having to deal with this Machiavellian nonsense. We do have friends in countries like Denmark and maybe Germany but I don’t think we can trust Madrid or people like Rompuy. Why waste the effort? It would be nice to see our harbours full of our own boats again. I know the SNP are very pro EU and have their heart set on entry but there is a good life outside the EU too.

  200. steviecosmic says:

    @Dougthedug
    I read a report recently that said there were +6000 and +2000 Spanish and French vessels respectively in Scottish territorial waters. For Spain, that’s approximately 50% of her fleet. Ergo, Spain are not veto-ing a Scotland entry/continuance within the EU.
     

  201. Chic McGregor says:

    The point I was making was that Madeley probably believes what he is saying about England subsidising Scotland, simply because that is what the English people generally have been told.
    Look how entrenched the belief is that London generates most of the UK’s wealth. They cannot even tell the difference between genuine wealth creation and scam based wealth acquisition.
    It is not just gullible Scots who are duped, the English are just as much propaganda victims and that fact should influence any assessment when such regurgitations are encountered form English or Scots.
     
     

  202. The Man in the Jar says:

    Right I just watched the above vomitfest straight after watching Soor-pus Lamont on Newsnight.
     
    I am about to watch Sturgeon V Carmichael (recorded) it had better be good after that!

  203. steviecosmic says:

    Carmichael oot of a job 🙂

  204. Dougthedug says:

    steviecosmic:
     
    Have you got a link to those numbers?

  205. Hetty says:

    Sick really, crikey what an unintelligent bunch of idiots. I could only watch up to about where the horsey one starts whining on a second time. This really is the level of the ( thinking if there was any evidence of it) mindset in large part in Englandshire. Oh dear god pray for Indy for Scotland so we can cast this idiocracy aside and get on with the important stuff here in Scotland. Good riddance indeed. Hope I don’t have nightmares now.  
    On a light note my son dreamt that YES Scotland were giving away free t-shirts! Wishful thinking? 

  206. Hetty says:

    what do you mean my comment is awaiting moderation? Huh?

  207. Morag says:

    You spelled your name wrong or you spelled your email wrong.  That’s always what it is.

  208. muttley79 says:

    John Mackay looked like he was about to piss himself laughing at the end!! 😀  Oh dear Carmichael…

  209. Roland Smith says:

    Whoever the blonde lady is we need to get her fronting Better Together. Her comments and facial expressions, during the phone ins are worth thousands of votes.

  210. steviecosmic says:

    @Dougthe dug
     
    will do some ‘trawling’ for the data tomorrow and furnish forthwith. I am +2gmt.
    The source will come to me after another raki.

  211. gerry parker says:

    I think Carmichael will be on the carpet tomorrow.

  212. Hetty says:

    oh Ok, usually I don’t tick the follow up box…maybe thats it. Thanks.
     

  213. Cindie aka CR says:

    Mariano Rajoy said that if a “region” opted to leave a member state, then it would “remain outside the European Union”.   http://archive.is/pD154
     
    Note use of region Ranjoy is not talking about Scotland as we are not a region we are a country.
     
    Deutsche Bank’s opinion on currency union with rUK http://archive.is/yJf7X

  214. Edward says:

    What was it that Carmichael said towards the end, when talking about the Clyde, di he state that he brought jobs to the Clyde?

  215. Edward says:

    Cindie aka CR
    It should be noted that Rajoy is an opportunist twat and probably clueless about Scotland, relying on the media guff, so probably does think that Scotland is a region of the UK, as that is how London does portray or tries to portray to other countries. He is probably thinking that, the UK would be responsible for the fishing grounds and ignorant of the fact that they belong to Scotland
    Maybe someone can tweet him @marianorajoy

  216. Cindie aka CR says:

    @Edward.  Good points, every single one.

  217. Jimbo says:

    Just tuned in here.
     
    Feck me – I wish I hadn’t watched that before going to bed.

  218. msean says:

    If everytime  the Deputy First Minister out debates a sos change happens,then looks like we might be needing another sos.

  219. Lisa says:

    absolutely disgusting!! to have a one sided debate with NO ONE giving the TRUE FACTS

  220. sionnach says:

    That was a most appalling and shameful display of bigoted ignorance I’ve seen in a long time. What’s the point of a panel of nobodies? We can all hear “debates” like that down the pub.
     
    From what I’m seeing elsewhere in this thread, the rest of the UK would seriously learn something useful from being shown Nicola’s demolition of Carmichael.  (I’m being guided by others’ reactions here, haven’t seen it myself.)

  221. Tasmanian says:

    Anyone got a link to Sturgeon filleting the dead fish? I’d like to see that!

  222. John Matthews says:

    “Why would the Bank of England let them keep sterling?”
     
    well, because their job is financial stability, and the union is currently a financially homogenous area, having one currency works and provides benefits to all and would continue to do so. Next!

  223. Fergie 35 says:

    They all suffered from a classic case of believing the propaganda, and this discussion could be comparable to aristocracy condeming poor people for wanting to buy their own home. Ignorance is the word

  224. Alex says:

    Don’t all sound too delighted and faux outraged at this. Of course it is ghastly, but it’s cheap tabloid television and not worth a second of serious attention other than to laugh in a somewhat pained hollow way.
    As for Katie Hopkins she is equally rude and obnoxious about large swathes of English society and really should just be ignored but unfortunately TV loves an ignorant right-wing rent-a-mouth.
    You have to remember that the English have been bombarded by propaganda about all this. It is astonishing some of the things I have to patiently explain when I go back down south.
    (Disclosure: English living in Scotland, will probably vote for independence, defend the BBC – you think it’s bad now wait and see what takes its place when the Daily Mail, Cameron and Murdoch get their way and destroy it)

  225. Suzanne K says:

    From what I can gather with my Spanish skills, the Spanish dude has merely fired a warning shot across the bow of Catalonia re Independence.
    He does refer to a region of a country and ‘tags’ Scotland on to this statement. It reeks of ‘Westminster intervention’.
    Hollande was referred to in his speech, but refused to be drawn saying that internal countries problems were just that, their concern, not his.
    Of course the MSM twist his words and omit that this was purely about Catalonia and Scotland was mentioned as a favour to London. 😉

  226. Webcraft says:

    A subtitled version would be fantastic.
    Hopefully some video genius is working on  it right now.
    Went to see Leslie Riddoch speaking about her new book ‘Blossom’ in Oban last night . . . Much food for thought. 

  227. Morag says:

    I’m in the middle of reading it.  I hope it gets more up-beat before the end!  She’s not wrong though.

  228. world war z says:

    the debate is over, scottish independence is dead in the water, this just shows there are more dumb people in England than Scotland, soon this nonsence will be over

  229. Morag says:

    Just keep believing that, sweetie….

  230. tartanarse says:

    We,ve all made a terrible mistake.
     
    Alistair Carmichael is the most able able politician on the planet.
     
    Having been interviewed on relation to the white paper on the World at one it became clear to me that he head read digested and was able to comment on the white paper within THREE hours.
     
    THREE hours. Thats a page every 30 seconds even if you call it 600 pages.
     
    The only other superhuman who could better this is the other Alistair who of course was able to comment on the paper BEFORE it was even published.
     
    People of Scotland, with guys like these looking after our interests one can only hope that Scots can ignore horrible unchecked telly racism and vote to remain in the perfectly fair and balanced union where we are respected by all.

  231. frazer says:

    In response to M4rkyboy and a few others. Please don’t fall into the trap of thinking that london scots are somehow patsies or somehow not properly Scottish because of Ronnie Ancona. I am a London Scot, 13 years in London and counting. Neither me or any of my fellow London Scottish friends ( i have many) would let anyone away with this claptrap. Ancona is in the media, playing the game – that is more likely her reason for allowing it rather than the her location. 

  232. Gordon says:

    Amazeballs!

  233. scottish_skier says:

    Youtube clip been taken down.

  234. Bubbles says:

    Just as I finally get a chance to see it it’s been pulled. Typical.

  235. crisiscult says:

    just went in through proxy. Over 72,000 views!

  236. Kipper says:

    Disgusted once again at Youtube blocking the video (no doubt at some slimeball’s request). No coincidence that it happens to have been really picking up in views and really showed the point well, HMMMMM?
     
    I hope someone keeps uploading it.

  237. crisiscult says:

    Seems it’s just in UK it’s blocked. Grant_m saying it’s viewable from Netherlands and as I said, you can watch through a proxy. Now coming up for 89,000 views! That’s impressive. when I first watched it couple of days ago, it was about 300!

  238. Grant_M says:

    @crisiscult
    My link is to the video using a proxy 😉

  239. FMQ Unofficial says:

    Channel five have blocked out United Kingdom viewers on the YouTube version. I’ve taken the liberty of uploading a vimeo version. Hopefully it can last longer than a day this time.

  240. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    It is the Daily Mail on a tele.
    Pig thick though, eh?

  241. Mark says:

    The only fair comment I can give is that it was quite ignorant and devoid of both solid fact and impartiality. Not a quality debate by any stretch of the imagination. An independent Scotland question cannot be answered by one side. Perhaps more impartial commentary will help to pave the way forward for both the ignorant and blind?

  242. London Scot says:

    Almost as offensive as the suggestion that all Scottish Londoners will tug a forelock to their English betters to get by down here or face being ostracised socially for airing pro-independence views. Give us and even them some credit.

  243. Anon Sailor says:

    *sinks hands into face and wishes the next ten months goes past quickly*
     
    Get us the hell out if this rancid union.
     

  244. ewen says:

    My poor dog ran out of the room. He doesn’t like me shouting f@#k off at the phone. I’d never seen or heard of this show before and hopefully will never see it again. Madely talked down to us like an imperial officer talking about his wallah. Yes love inja and the wogs.

    That Hopkins woman is a nasty piece of work. Met too many like her unfortunately. Clocks back bloke -iq of a protozoa. Finally,, how are London Scots so pathetically craven. It all made me grue.

  245. Kowri Sow says:

    I lived in Scotland (Edinburgh) and enjoyed Scottish people. I found them to be very friendly.However, I would be saddened to see Great Britain splinter. Scotland should remain part of Great Britain.



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