The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


The £5bn miracle

Posted on March 24, 2016 by

Two front pages in the same newspaper, two weeks apart.

miracle

The top image is Scotland within the UK. The bottom one is an independent Scotland.

£5 billion better off with independence? We’d call that a no-brainer.

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  1. 24 03 16 18:43

    The £5bn miracle | Speymouth

137 to “The £5bn miracle”

  1. Dr Jim says:

    Creative accounting? or did they borrow someones hat

  2. Hamish McTavish says:

    I think Tom and Scott need to get together in the pub and agree their numbers.

    I’m sure they probably wouldn’t even need a fag packet. Just agree.

    What’s the current level of interest in sale/purchase of that rag anyway? Have the owners definitely put it up for sale or, were they just flying a kite?

  3. Amazing savings in just 2 weeks. Looking forward to achieving net zero by June. Which suggest that by Christmas, we should all be enjoying a wealth bonanza.

    Thanks BritNat media.

  4. CmonIndy says:

    Now there’s a line for Nicola this evening. Will be ready with my 38degrees ‘worm’ for live responding.

  5. bugsbunny says:

    So we’re better together with a 8% share of £1.6 trillion than £10 billion or £15 billion with Independence? 413 years ago the first Queen Elizabeth died, which started the whole shebang. If only she married and had legitimate offspring we would have had no Union in 1603 and 1707, or King James VI never married and continued with what he was doing since he was 13, i.e. sodomizing little boys up the shitter, then the Union of Crowns/or Personal Union would have lasted from 24th March 1603 until 27th March 1625 before separating once again. What ifs of history eh?

    Stephen.

  6. Phil Robertson says:

    Fascinating post!

    You now seem to be taking headlines in the Scotsman as reliable fact. I wonder how long you’ll manage to keep that going.

    As usual, you miss the point. There is a shortfall in Scottish public finances. Whether it is £10B or £15B is a distraction to put off addressing the central problem.

  7. Proud Cybernat says:

    “As usual, you miss the point. There is a shortfall in Scottish public finances.”

    What? And there isn’t one in UK public finances? How was this shortfall ever allowed to come about? Who was in charge of creating it in the first place? Where did all the oil wealth over the last 40+ years go? Why isn’t there a UK Sovereign Oil Fund like Norway set up and now benefits from? Why is the UK skint? And why is Scotland skint? Do explain whose fault it all is? Tell us who was in charge of this public finance mess for the last 307 years?

  8. X_Sticks says:

    I really can’t get my head around the fact that anyone reads this sh!t.

    They must be mentally challenged to believe the crap they print in this bog paper.

  9. Iain More says:

    Here come the Scotland haters and they cant hide their glee. The central problem that the Brit Nats always miss is that the alleged basket case in their eyes that is Scotland is one created by the Lords and Masters in London that they kowtow and fawn over slavishly. I wonder if they will ever get off their knees.

    I never got an answer from any Brit Nat as to who is propping up the basket case that is Johnston Press!

  10. Achnababan says:

    Och lets no quibble – lets just call it a round 25 billion in debt.

  11. Bill McLean says:

    There is of course no shortfall in UK public finances. No £1.6 Trillion National debt and no £80 billion annual deficit. Many successful small nations in Europe have larger deficits than Scotland – but they are successful because they are fortunate enough not to have anything to do with the incompetent liars at Westminster. Grow up Mr Robertson deficit and debt is accrued by all nations, sometimes large, sometimes small, and the public have cottoned on!

  12. Almannysbunnet says:

    The yoons and tories aren’t very good at eekernomics. This is what Business for Scotland have just had to say about the dog food salesman’s 37 page economics report from yesterday.

    “Scottish Tories independence report shows childlike and amateur understanding of economics. This is an amateur blogger report that demonstrates a kindergarden level of understanding of economics and contains assumptions and calculations that fall apart with the slightest of inspection.”
    “It’s almost as if the Conservative Party in Scotland is desperate to draw attention away from the double disasters of George Osborne’s unraveling amateur budget, and the No Campaign’s disintegrating project fear claims.”

    Thanks to Nana for the link to the report.

  13. Bob Mack says:

    All countries with a shortfall in public finances should be shut down immediately.

    Most of the worlds population would all be sitting on a small island tax haven somewhere,stacked on each others head.

  14. Andrew Mclean says:

    This newspapers comments section should be labelled “Enter not, Here Be Dragons”
    A more deranged bunch surely cannot exist, for instance one chap told me today that wings didn’t exist, and another gal asserted we were vile and the equivalent of Islamic state, of all days she says this today without shame.

  15. call me dave says:

    Aye but Swinney always looks down the back of the sofa, he learnt from George and CMD in WM that there’s a good chance that something will turn up!

    O/T
    I like this headline better>

    Fiona Hyslop in the clear over controversial T in the Park grant

    https://archive.is/cLLoR

  16. Bob Mack says:

    Any chance the deficit will have cleared itself in the next fortnight then?

  17. Ghillie says:

    Today I am excited. I thought I would be crushed.

    I wish this could have been a day of incredible celebrations. But instead this time has been a gift to show the people of Scotland just how truly rotten this union is.

    There are still those who want to talk Scotland down. Their numbers are dwindling. They are whistling in the dark.

    The unionist parties and the BUM have taken enough rope to hang themselves. I just never thought they could do it quite so spectacularly!!

    Scotland will Independent soon, very very soon = )

    SNP SNP! With Wings we soar = )

  18. Arbroath1320 says:

    I know I’m only the village idiot around these parts but I think the Hootsmon must have been doing some digging doon the back o their sofa an found £5 Billion just … well just sort of lying there. 😀

    Think we should all keep this news just atween oorsels. I’d hate tae think whit this news wid dae tae the likes o wee Ruthit yon tankette commander or wee Kezzie the sub branch office manager. 😀

    I was going tae mention yon ither eejit whatsisname but a forgot his name so a’ll no bother! 😀

  19. jimnarlene says:

    I just get the feeling that, they’re making it up as the go along.

  20. John Walsh says:

    Now you have just baffled Jabkie bail- lie.

  21. Arbroath1320 says:

    As usual, you miss the point. There is a shortfall in Scottish public finances. Whether it is £10B or £15B is a distraction to put off addressing the central problem.

    Of course I think it might be you who is missing the point here Phil.

    If the Scotsman is saying Scotland’s finances on independence would now only be £10 Billion then that is a definite improvement. NOW consider just a “few” of the other unmentioned savings we would have … Trident, Crossrail2, London Super Sewer, HS2, HS3 to name but a few. ALL of these projects take money FROM Scotland and Scotland receives NOTHING as a result of the Barnett consequentials. These savings, if memory serves me right, amount to something in the region of ANOTHER £5 Billion.

    Therefore, had we been independent today we would NOT have had a £15 Billion black hole … nor would we have had a £10 Billion black hole … at WORST we’d have had a £5 Billion black hole.

    Further more Phil, are you saying that black holes are a BAD thing?

    After all there are 193 countries in the world of which 192 have varying degrees of black holes. There is only ONE country in the world that does NOT have a black hole. Would you care to guess which one that is and perhaps explain to us all why that is?

  22. Ken500 says:

    Scotland has lost Oil revenues not because of the drop in price but because of the 60/80% UK tax. Osbourne increase the Oil tax in 2011 and ( deliberately) did not reduce until 2016. Thousands of jobs have been lost. Not because of the fall in price because of the tax. Scotland has lost at least £20Billion. An average of £4Billion a year fr 5 years. While Oil and Gas was being imported putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt.

    Add that to the £4Billion in debt repayments for money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend, £4Billion a year. £1Billion could be gained by a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £1Billion for Trident/illegal wars. £3Billion? In tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose. UK tax Laws are not enforced by Westminster Total = £13Billion.

    Add £13Billion to £54Billion Scotland raises in tax = £67Billion. Add on the same pro rata borrowing spending by Westminster in the rest of the U.K. (£596Billion – £95Billion borrowing = 1/6 )

    £67Billion + 1/6 = £67Billion + £11Billion = £78Billion (equal to Norway and an Oil Fund).

    Westminster has been ripping off Scotland forever and lying about it.

    Tories have closed Longannet. No CCS but fracked gas in being imported.

  23. call me dave says:

    The leader’s debate…ach!

    Wee Wullie, Ruthless, Kezia and the presenter V Sturgeon no contest… is there a ‘cash out’ button?

    I could make out a Unionist Bingo list to make it interesting though or I could watch Scotland V Canada at the curling instead at 20.00hrs. OR the footie even!

    http://cricfree.tv/

  24. Muscleguy says:

    I’m just waiting to see how the ScotGov mediated saving of the mothballed steel mills is going to be spun as SNP Baaaad.

    I may have to watch Scotland Tonight to find out.

  25. HandandShrimp says:

    The Loony Yoony tide of flotsam and jetsam is remarkable. There is no immediate prospect of Scottish independence yet they are in full Project Fear reprise with bucket loads of useless numbers and idiotic forecasts that won’t last a month never mind years. They have chosen irrelevance over substance.

    In the meantime we go to the polls to select a Government. The SNP have shown their mettle in fighting for a fair fiscal framework whilst the others demonstrated craven obsequence to Westminster. The SNP have worked hard to save what is left of the Scottish Steel industry showing the way for the rest of the UK.

    Yet still they wonder why Nicola is popular.

  26. HaggisHunter says:

    Okay so its only £5bn, nae point in splitting hairs, eh?Remember Salmond is fat and Nicola is dangerous, SNP are Nazis and the Scots are so fekkin useless they need the dependency of the UK for their scrounging.

    Oh wait, the LabServativeDems have given Scotland an 8.5% stake in a £1.6 trillion debt, and oil is going to be shite forever more, don’t forget whisky is an English export. Doomed, the future is too frightening to think about.

  27. Graeme Doig says:

    So we’re 5 million less shite than we were last week. Typical Scotland. Cannae maintain a decent level of shiteness for 5 minutes.

    Phil Robertson, you will never get the point.

  28. Macart says:

    Yeah, like we don’t know why these bullshit stories and ‘think tank’ forecasts are appearing at this time.

    Here’s the thing and there’s no way round it. Scotland is not independent today. How an independent Scottish government would handle this current situation, what steps they would take, how they would react is a matter of shear conjecture on the part of all titles indulging in independence bashing today.

    What is known fact is that the UKs system of government, economic model and economic stewardship has amassed eye watering levels of debt and growth in wealth disparity. Its government hasn’t once met its own deficit reduction targets or accurately forecast levels of productivity or economic growth. This same government has embarked on a model of austerity measures causing extreme hardship to the least advantaged in UK society and despite guarantees made throughout the independence referendum has been unable to ensure job security, pension protection or a safe haven in times of economic hardship.

    Still, plenty of time to run up what if stories on Scottish independence eh? Don’t look over here, look over there.

    The question is what is the UK government going to do about the situation they had no small part in creating?

    In their own time then.

  29. muttley79 says:

    What time is this debate on tonight? I should add that my expectations of a quality debate are not high due to the unionist triumvirate of Rennie, Dugdale, Davidson, and of course that BBC Scotland are hosting it…

  30. Macart says:

    Edit: That would be ‘sheer conjecture’. 🙂

  31. Arbroath1320 says:

    call me dave says:
    24 March, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    The leader’s debate…ach!

    Wee Wullie, Ruthless, Kezia and the presenter V Sturgeon no contest… is there a ‘cash out’ button?

    Erm … I think you forgot someone there CmD. 😉

    I assume it was just a wee deliberate slip to catch the village idiot, namely me 😀 , oot! 😀

    Let me remind one and all that a certain UKIP M.E.P. will also be on the panel tonight … apparently! 😀

  32. Sheryl Hepworth says:

    Beautifully said Arbroath1620 & ken500 @6.02 and of course oor man macart @ 6.33. Couldn’t have shoot better at Mr Troll Robinson!!

  33. Arbroath1320 says:

    Muttley it is on EBC 1 at nine p.m. tonight. Glen Campbell is the *ahem* host so we are looking at FIVE versus ONE unless you count Patrick Harvie in the the anti SNP crowd in which case it will be SIX.

    I have no doubt that EVERYONE will be permitted to spout their bile unabated … until it comes to Nicola Sturgeon who will be constantly interrupted by Campbell or one of his fellow unionists!

  34. Scotspine says:

    Has anyone else had emails from the Scotsman inviting them to advertise? I got one this afternoon.

    They must be struggling for revenue.

    I invited them to do something alternative in my reply…..

  35. HandandShrimp says:

    My expectations of the BBC are so low that I doubt I will watch it. It will be the usual talk over Nicola let the others have free rein.

  36. East Neuker says:

    Can we condense this down to –

    If things are so bad for Scotland (Yoon Opinion) what government had the economic levers that made it so?

    Why would we want to stay with that remote government which we did not vote for?

    What are we going to do about it?

    Is that so hard guys?

    Vote for independence for Scotland.

    Don’t be feart.

  37. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sheryl Hepworth says:
    24 March, 2016 at 6:51 pm

    Beautifully said Arbroath1620 & ken500 @6.02 and of course oor man macart @ 6.33. Couldn’t have shoot better at Mr Troll Robinson!!

    Curtseys … with HUGE grin! 😀

  38. yesindyref2 says:

    @Phil Robertson says

    But Phil, if the figure isn’t important, what if it’s only £1.26? Or 63p?

  39. Re Phil the Troll away up in the denizens of your disconnect, above the below the line comment at some trolling time point: Am sensing a vibe with your theme of “commentary” en passim; so may I ask you, are you a Breughel Brothers/Hieronymous Bosch with a soupcon of Dali/Durer kinda surrealist wannabe logician for as sure as the earth is not flat, you ain’t no Duns Scotus (The Subtle Doctor); nor much of a painter of ideas.

    FFS, Philippa or Philip, get a grip for this shit happened under the WM governance watch. Not ScotGov’s, you intellectually and morally challenged finger-painter that your comments purport you to be.

    PS Are you “Mad Dug” McTiernan or his big, fat, Unionist puppy attack dog masquerading as “Phil the Shill”?

  40. call me dave says:

    I know /knew five or six (don’t see them much since I went self employed when I retired 5 years ago), all of them were ex-labour men and staunch people for the union they were in, went to the footie together too.

    Bouncing between UKIP for some election and labour for another because they were not for the SNP or Scotland.

    Don’t meet many that admit they’re UKIP so I don’t know if that is a generalisation I’m making.

    Also saw that Coburn interview that was posted earlier with the photo deliberately showing his jacket on a shoogely peg… Coburn must have been thick as mince not to see he was being set up. 🙂

    Oh wait!… he is and therefore he will lose them votes every time he appears on the tv, maybe I should have mentioned him. 🙂

    PS:
    Got my first hand delivered SNP leaflet from the candidate this afternoon hoping to take over from Marwick. Not long to go now.

  41. msean says:

    A £5bn bonus right away! How do we sign up?

  42. Arbroath1320 says:

    msean says:
    24 March, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    A £5bn bonus right away! How do we sign up?

    I think Both votes SNP might be a good first step Msean. 😉

  43. Lollysmum says:

    THE PAIN by Margaret-commenter on Wee Ginger Dug’s blog

    Why are you crying Granny are you suffering from a pain?
    That question went unanswered as my tears fell down like rain
    The child then listened quietly to the story he was told
    I voted for your future for a country you could mould
    But my dream was sadly shattered, and yes, I have a pain
    Your life would be so different, you had so much to gain

    Let me tell you what was lost to you, to what we threw away
    For like a fortune teller I could see the price we’d pay
    A rage burns in my belly, it’s often hard to cope
    Knowing those less able have been robbed of any hope
    The sick, the poor, disabled, and folk with no abode
    I could see that those with nothing would have to bear the load
    They’ve now been left to sink or swim and no one seems to care
    I find as each day passes it’s just too much to bear

    The chance to have your nation, to stand, so proud and tall
    To care and share your riches, to lift up those who fall
    I knew the road would twist and turn we’d sail on stormy seas
    For you my child I didn’t care, I’d crawl on hands and knees
    No riches do I want nor need, but in my heart I crave
    A life for you so different if only we’d been brave
    The dream was not for me alone for now I am too old
    My independence gift to you was worth much more than gold
    So that is why I’m crying but your time will come once more
    And when it does you grab it and let your spirit soar

    Spread this far & wide-it deserves to be read by all.

  44. Arbroath1320 says:

    I don’t think this wee poll thingy is working out quite how the Daily Record was hoping it would. 😀

    Sorry but I have to link to the actual page I can’t get the poll to work in archive mode. 🙁

    http://www.scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-independence-remains-decisive-factor-7621876

    It is currently running 73% FOR another independence referendum and 27% AGAINST another independence referendum. 😀

  45. Grouse Beater says:

    I hope Kezia doesn’t read this topic, Stuart.

    She’ll be announcing how the Scottish Labour group will spend the newly saved £5 million

  46. Dr Jim says:

    If tonights debate were to be anything like fair the FM would eat them up and spit them out
    But it won’t be fair will it,

    It’ll be the usual mouthy State Broadcaster hand picked randomly “Invited” audience with their questions loaded and ready to fire, the opposition parties prepped and prepared as one to launch themselves like vampires on the FM at the preordained specified cue

    And last but by no means least the State Broadcasters Invigilator and questioner ready to cut off the FM mid sentence at every opportunity

    That’s to say nothing of the probable use of unfavourable lighting and sound

    Now some folk might say I was paranoid but they’d be wrong because I’ve experienced the use of these techniques and to my credit or shame depending on where you’re coming from used them myself, and they work

    Maybe the State Broadcaster will surprise us all tonight by being scrupulous and balanced and neutral and fair as they always claim they are no matter how many thousands of people say differently after investigation by themselves to which they find themselves not to be guilty of any wrongdoing or Bias

    (Nick Robinson for sainthood)(Jackie Bird for Mother Theresa award)(Sally Magnusson for the disdain look award)(Sally McNair for the I’m sorry look award)(David Henderson for the through the round window award) and last but not least (Shelley Jofre for the I’m not up to this job and I wish I wasn’t here award)

    Toodle ooh the Noo…. you thought I’d forgotten him eh

  47. Onwards says:

    call me dave says:
    24 March, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    “I could make out a Unionist Bingo list”
    —–

    I’ll have a shot:

    1. “division”
    2. “no means no”
    3. “black hole”
    4. “Yes voters should be thanking No voters”
    5. “dodged a bullet”
    6. “obsessed with independence”
    7. “one of most powerful devolved parliaments in the world”
    8. “get one with using the powers we already have”
    9. “kids not cuts”
    10. “highest taxed part of Britain”
    11. “tax cut for millionaires”
    12. “arrogant sturgeon thinks she has already won”

  48. Nana says:

    @Lollysmum

    Wow that is fantastic. It had not been posted when I read the blog so thanks for putting it up.

  49. heedtracker says:

    Ultra unionist in his Scotland region maybe hasnt seen this £5bn drop yet. One trick UKOK pony but huge hit with far right yoon online culture, and BBC too.

    Kevrage is quite a bitchy 1 trick pony too, shock.

    Wonder what Wings would be like if the author had a tiny amount of the UKOK boosting Kevrage gets from ever more ghastly yoonster media?

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 3h3 hours ago San Sebastián de la Gomera, Spain
    Seen Wings latest ad hom – guess I’d have to quit being employer/investor & beg for money instead before I could match him for credibility.

  50. Breastplate says:

    Scotland is that rock band that have played at sell out venues for years.
    They have an unscrupulous manager helping himself to their funds and tells them they’re not making enough money and need to work harder.
    He has some dodgy receipts to ‘prove’ this.
    He believes the band members aren’t smart enough to work out that he’s stealing from them.
    He’s half right.

  51. Giving Goose says:

    Onwards

    Benefits of Union-Please add;

    The Dambusters theme
    Spitfire Airfix kits
    Cricket parlance
    Elizabeth Wokkin-Dokkin-Derspiegelspraken and family (with free corgies)
    Spotted Dick
    Lots of dead stoats and tights.
    Saudi princes calling the shots.

    Jeez, we could have thrown that all away on a whim.
    Thank f*** for that!

  52. bugsbunny says:

    According to Taxpayers Alliance Scotland our debt for 2015/16 is just over £4 billion. So whats the truth?

    Stephen.

  53. heedtracker says:

    Scotland has lost Oil revenues not because of the drop in price but because of the 60/80% UK tax.

    More than that, compared to Norwegian, Danish and Dutch offshore oil and gas sectors, UK’s is far lower wages, far longer work hours, shite food, crap accommodation, all round bad working conditions, lousy training, no union rep, seriously terrible accidents rates, helicopters dropping into the sea, its a long disgraceful UKOK list. New starts even have to pay for their own survival training, to cowboys that wouldn’t get a start in Scandinavia.

    Its probably never costed but 4+ decades of NOT Scottish oil field revenues collected by Treasury, BP, Shell, giant UK pension funds etc all have massive boosts from all of the above, hard core Thatcherite slashing back of UK offshore epxro employment costs.

  54. heedtracker says:

    Still nothing from Kevrage. Will Kev, aka Colin Rippey ever come back on WoS and explain why he was £5bn out in his forecast Project Fearing?

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 4h4 hours ago San Sebastián de la Gomera, Spain
    I’m genuinely flattered that the best response Nats can muster to my analysis is “one of his businesses sells dog food don’t you know?”

  55. heedtracker says:

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/report-claims-yes-vote-would-have-cost-scotland-10-4-billion-in-first-year-1.930497?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

    Kevrage unionist economics are hard to work out but even Courier yoons boost this economic genius of tory unionism-

    From

    “Kevrage argued that with recent Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures showing Scotland had a deficit of £14.9 billion – the equivalent of 9.7% of GDP – in 2014-15, if the country had become independent it would need to have a “clear and aggressive deficit reduction programme in place”.

    to

    “Research by Europe Economics estimated the financial cost of independence to Scotland in the first year to be about £10.4 billion – with this made up from various factors such as a loss of UK Government funding, border control costs and government set-up costs.

    via

    “Another study from economic commentator Kevin Hague said: “The likely price we would have paid for independence had there been a Yes vote would have been of the order of £9 billion a year; that’s about £1,700 a year for every man, woman and child in Scotland.”

    Note the balance reportage from yoon gits like the Courier, none.

    They won 2014. Since then, they’ve destroyed Scottish independence. Today they used a non anniversary to destroy Scottish independence.

    Will the every shut up about Scottish independence?

    NO:D

  56. Robert Louis says:

    Today, on the day Scotland was cheated of freedom from London colonial mis-rule with the restoration of Scottish independence, I remember how bad I felt the day of the tragic result.

    It reminds me also, that I will NEVER forgive the lying Labour party staff, MP’s, MSP’s and activists, who lied, lied and lied again. They were the ones telling Polish people in Leith that if there was a YES vote, they would be deported. They were the ones, including Gordon Liar Brown, who scared pensioners with lies of how they would lose their pensions. They were the ones, who told seriously ill Scots, that independence would mean they wouldn’t get a transplant. They were the ones who told mothers of seriously ill children that they would no longer get treatment in places like Great Ormond Street.

    That is some legacy for the liars of the Labour party. Now shown to have all been lies, including the one where the Labour UK shadow chancellor and Alistair Darling worked hand in hand with the Tories, to gleefully tell Scots they wouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to use the pound on national television – which we now know was a complete lie.

    And still they lie, day in, day out, telling us, that Scotland is unique within the world, as the ONLY country that can never survive without London colonial rule.

    THAT is why till the day I die, I will NEVER, EVER again vote for the lying, corrupt, craven, London-worshipping Labour party.

    Today, I’m not sad, I’m bl***y angry.

    Wee Black Book, is excellent by the way. Thank you.

  57. Joemcg says:

    Onwards-whit aboot Ruthless brandishing some sort of newspaper cutting or leaflet? Her favourite wee jape!

  58. Croompenstein says:

    Where to even begin with todays moon howlers but let’s look at this one who has personally insulted us…

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/713092717526519808

    Now I used to donate to newsnet until they let that no-mark Torrance spout his pish, I used to donate to Bella till they let that rapper spout pish. I donate to Wings because Rev lets me spout my pish when I am so fucking pissed off with the constitutional mud Scotland is stuck in.

    I don’t read newspapers anymore or pay the EBC a thin dime so let’s say to read Wings cost 20p a day 5 days a week that’s only £52 a year and worth every bloody penny.

    Ross McCafferty our eyes are wide open we are not gullible pal but you need to get off your knees…

  59. gerry parker says:

    @RL.

    Ditto for me.

  60. Andrew Mclean says:

    Kelvin wanted a gong, but he didn’t have the right stuff, so try and try will he, to get a Lord or a sir, but poor old Kevin is just to stupid, an economist he is not, so try and try with all his might, but all can see he is talking shite!

  61. Brian McHugh says:

    The leaders debate on EBC at 9pm?
    What daft timing… the Pink Panthers are 1:0 up in the Czech Republic. 🙂

  62. Quentin Quale says:

    Yoonie Tunes. Sadly that’s not all, folks. But soon.

  63. Michael McCabe says:

    Scotland winning 1-0 at half time Anya the Scorer.

  64. Robert Peffers says:

    That damned Danny Alexander Calculator certainly gets around.
    Perhaps he had more than one – and sold them separately instead of as a job lot. That would explain certain discrepancies within the same parties.

  65. Andrew Mclean says:

    Heed tracker
    His analysts,? What? He analysed so all, I read his submission, he analysed his arse, it was an extrapolation of other people’s work, it was plagiarism of the worst kind! He actually cut and pasted from GERS, that very system has even been disowned by Westminster, as nothing but a political fudge!

    Did I hear that Carmichael that prince of truth, that King of honesty, has been bailed out by an unknown benefactor, iWhy, is he now giving services, or being paid for service rendered?
    Ever thing about that man makes my skin crawl.

  66. Kenny says:

    It is so interesting to read Lesley Riddoch’s article in The National today and note how the Red Tories managed to shoot themselves in the foot (no, the head) twice. And, as usual, they were totally led up the garden path by the Blue Tories.

    Honestly, were it a plot in Wacky Races or Penelope Pitstop it would be considered lame and rejected!

    Riddoch correctly noted that had Scotland voted YES, Pigface would have had to resign in ignominy. And rUKOK could have ended up with a Labour government after a hopeless year by Gideon (especially as, in her scenario, Nicola would have supported Labour in return for concessions in the divorce negotiations).

    Now, if Labour had supported indy, it is very conceivable that Labour would have held onto their previous high support and certainly been the flavour of the month, as all teething problems and scandals in the new country would have been laid at the door of the SNP.

    So if Labour had played its cards right, it would have been in power in TWO countries!

    But we all know that Labour is now “Labour”. It is “Project Labour”. I am only surprised they were so dense that they did not even hide the fact they are WM’s little helpers and Tories through and through. Maybe because they have the BBC behind them all the time?

    Does anyone seriously think this party is EVER capable of winning an election in the UK? Look at their “leader” in Scotland — a complete nonentity with the intellectual abilities of not even an eight-year-old.

    The choice is simple: Scottish independence or Tory governments forever and ever and ever.

  67. muttley79 says:

    So on the day Scotland could have received all the powers of an independent nation, we are going to be treated to the spectacle of three unionist leaders shouting at Nicola Sturgeon, while Patrick Harvey tries to sound reasonable in comparison. This should be fun…SLAB are bound to have put some of their hyenas among the studio audience. What are the odds that those dipsticks Scott Arthur/Hothersall et al are among them?

  68. liz says:

    O/T made the mistake of reading BLC on the Guardian article re our black hole.

    It was like be assaulted verbally by every mad Yoon troll all at once.

    The glee that Scotland ‘is a failure’ in their eyes is beyond belief.

    For our own sanity and self respect, we need to get the hell out of here

  69. muttley79 says:

    How shameless is Kezia Dugdale on the rebate?

  70. muttley79 says:

    Here’s David Coburn…. 😀 😀

  71. I am listening to the debate on taxation. They all forget that during my lifetime I was paying 33% and similar amounts most of the time on BASIC rate,and sometimes around 80% Higher rate.

    How things change.

  72. Andrew Mclean says:

    Why do we have that UKIP buffalo snoring and not the SSP?

  73. heedtracker says:

    Andrew Mclean says:
    24 March, 2016 at 8:52 pm
    Heed tracker
    His analysts,? What? He analysed so all, I read his submission, he analysed his arse,

    Kevrage gives good yoon though. He’s not interesting because he’s decided that Scotland, had we been STUPID enough to have voted YES, would now have a £15bn deficit that would definitely bring all kinds of shite down on our STUPID heads. Not that he’s cooked up the ultra yoonster £10bn independence costs. Any and all yoonsters can and are raging away at us like Kevin.

    He’s only interesting because, is this really all media yoons in their Scotland region actually have, ongoing BBC led UKOK Project Fear wise?

    Clearly yoons like Kev ride their luck. If Brent crude prices were even averaging, what would he have to terrify us oiks out here in the real world?

    Questions questions, which ofcourse ultra yoons like Kevrage never dare approach.

    Ultimately the real yoonster problem for attack propagandists like Kevrage, in their Scotland region, is how to get torn into that YES vote that might start NOT voting SNP. That’s the who the real and latest BBC led propaganda monstering of Scotland’s aimed at.

    Kevrage style tory yoons totally dominate tv, radio and newspapers and May elections will tell them if they are actually credible. Not long now.

  74. Cadogan Enright says:

    The National was consummately brilliant today

  75. K1 says:

    Is anyone else finding this debate really ‘boring’, I mean singularly boring?

  76. K1 says:

    Ruthie is such an outright liar. Trying to distance herself for being a Tory.

  77. muttley79 says:

    Why is Patrick Harvie pretending that Scotland now has the power to do anything much different? It is bullshit. So is this debate to be fair. We are being flung back to some of those atrocious 2015 Scottish leaders’ and independence referendum debates.

  78. yesindyref2 says:

    Just for the time being keep asking Unionists what we got for the NO vote.

    Let them make our case.

    They really are sore winners, and that’s sure to piss moderate people off.

  79. paulTgeist says:

    “Ross McCafferty our eyes are wide open we are not gullible pal”

    Are you sure about that have you seen the post at 7:34pm?

  80. Glamaig says:

    Willie Rennie reminds me of that Viz character Roger Irrelevant.

  81. al urquhar says:

    Are Coburn and la Dug long-separated twins?

    Like peas in a pod.

  82. Andrew Mclean says:

    Kezia, is really out of her depth, seriously, if labour ever want to get another shot at the big chair, they need someone with gravitas, intelligence and strength.
    I actually feel sorry for her, she really is just the assistant made up to branch manager when the boss is on holiday, trouble for labour she is trying to rearrange the office in his absence!
    Boy is she in trouble when he gets back!

  83. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Our lowest unit of currency is the penny.

    One of them is a penny. Any more than one is a number of pence.

    Why do supposedly educated individuals persist in using the phrase one pence, when they actually mean one penny?

    Pedantic rant over.
    https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/ProudPedant-crop.jpg

  84. scotsbob says:

    The BBC charter no doubt demands equal time for all the parties. On a practical level six people is too many.

    I wonder how many viewers are still involved compared to the number who were watching at the beginning.

  85. muttley79 says:

    @yesindyref2

    The sooner we get the independence movement back together again the better, after this election. This is complete pish.

  86. muttley79 says:

    To be honest Nicola Sturgeon is struggling for form and she is hardly the worst tonight imo. Coburn is something else.

  87. Joemcg says:

    Fantastic win for the scots tonight. This debate is extremely yawnsome. The quality of politician in Scotland is piss poor barring Nicola. Embarrassing really.

  88. Andrew Mclean says:

    Brian
    Did you hear me screaming at the television? But that said maybe they only want one penny? How many people in Scotland? 5 million well if everyone gives a penny that’s erg hum it’s nearly almost just about, 100 billion! Yes votes for labour!

  89. Bob Mack says:

    Is the chairman running for office?.I heard more from him than anyone

  90. Onwards says:

    Nicola was solid, but debate pretty boring. No real talking points.

  91. Chic McGregor says:

    The utter nonsense spewed out by Ruth Davidson which went unchallenged was as usual and as usual depressing.

    Example ‘The UK is the fastest growing economy in the World’.

    Why use the Big Lie principle when you can do a scatter-gunfull of many at the same time.

  92. Rock says:

    muttley79,

    “Why is Patrick Harvie pretending that Scotland now has the power to do anything much different? It is bullshit.”

    Did you expect any better from Patrick Harvey?

    Any independence supporter giving the list vote to the Greens, Socialists or RISE is being duped.

    There are some ‘ex-Greens’ and ‘ex-Socialists’ posting here claiming to be SNP supporters, but I strongly suspect they are duping genuine SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens or Socialists.

    Until we get independence, independence supporters should give all their votes to the SNP.

    I am looking forward to being called a troll by the usual suspects.

  93. Andrew Mclean says:

    Well done Nicola, another hostile audience dealt with! She was the out and out winner, the only one who came across as an actual leader of a country, the rest tried to score a hit but she batted all away!
    Even wee willie trying to hold onto her star, by saying lots of good work by the SNP!

  94. Arbroath1320 says:

    muttley79 says:
    24 March, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    To be honest Nicola Sturgeon is struggling for form and she is hardly the worst tonight imo. Coburn is something else.

    In fairness Muttley I always think that it is extremely difficult for someone to get into their stride when others (Glenn Campbell, Kezia Dugdale, Ruth Davidson, David Coburn, Willie Rennie) keep shouting over her and preventing her from making her points clearly, succinctly and most importantly UNINTERRUPTED!

    Yes Campbell did interrupt the others but not to the same extent, in my view, as he did Nicola.

    As for Coburn. WTF! Did he just beam down from Mars or somewhere? 😀

  95. Arbroath1320 says:

    Tomorrow’s National front page.

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/713122658787991553/photo/1

    It may have only warranted 18 seconds on BBC Disreporting Scotland earlier tonight but at least it is front page here tomorrow.

  96. Robert Graham says:

    Leaders debate god awful , Campbell struggled to keep control , never seemed to remember who was next or allowed statements to be countered so the statement made stood without any contradiction , the UKIP representative added a touch of humor for good measure , a second debate oh no please not a replay .

  97. Thepnr says:

    No surprise, but as usual Rock I expected no different from you.

    Divide and conquer Yeah!

  98. Iain More says:

    Off Topic!

    Well I gave the Glenn Campbell vote Brit Nat show a miss and I am relaxed. I decided to listen to a mate giving me a commentary and the occasional blurry stuttery feed from Czech Republic.

    Oh dear the Brit Nats wont like it as the too wee and too poor and too stupid won 1-0 against a team that crushed the Dutch in the Euro qualifiers.

  99. I agree with Rock at 10.04

  100. I agree with Cadogan Enright at 9.28 as well
    One to keep

  101. Onwards says:

    Glamaig says:
    24 March, 2016 at 9:39 pm
    “Willie Rennie reminds me of that Viz character Roger Irrelevant.”

    No shit. Same with Patrick Harvie with me to be honest.
    Most people just want to hear from the main contenders.

    At least the UKIP nutter has a certain novelty value.
    Ranting about plucking capercaillies and the like.

  102. Thepnr says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill

    Sook LOL

  103. Arbroath1320 says:

    Careful there Dave you’re beginning to sound a lot like Broon the Loon (I agree with Nick 😀 ) from 2010. 😀

  104. Andrew Mclean says:

    Onwards

    Plucking! capercaillies, oh I thought he said, never mind, bloody loonies you never know where they will try and put their nobs!

  105. Arbroath1320 says:

    At least the UKIP nutter has a certain novelty value.
    Ranting about plucking capercaillies and the like.

    To be honest Onwards I think oor comedian on the panel tonight would run a mile if he ever saw a capercallie. 😀

    O.K. running may be a wee bit of a stretch here but hopefully you may get the drift! 😀

  106. Andrew Mclean says:

    Ok I don’t agree with anyone, especially that McLean fellow! Splitter!

  107. mealer says:

    Re the debate tonight,I thought all the leaders handled the Trump question badly.If Trump becomes president of the USA it will be with the support,or at the very least the acquiescence of the American people after a democratic process.Any Scottish leader would have a responsibility to speak to him,even if they had to hold their nose while doing so.

    I don’t think Coburn would have won over many voters to the UKIP cause with tonight’s performance.The sad thing is,he probably wouldn’t have lost them many votes either.

  108. Dr Jim says:

    Because of the State Broadcaster the audience is now under more scrutiny than the politicians

    Once again I spotted another better together organiser and another couple of familiar faces

    Either they should just stop doing these shit programs or at least make it amusing with the BBC Scotlandshire team with James Devoy

    In the end I don’t think anybody will alter any thinking they had in the first place over this, except of course for the usual wee flood of concern trolls who’ll all come on social media and claim a Labour transformation back from SNP because they’ve found the FM out

  109. Onwards says:

    @mealer

    I was thinking the same. It’s easy to go for the popular answer. But there was a chance for Nicola to make the point it’s for the American people to decide their leader. Regardless of what anyone here thinks of him. No-one liked it when foreign politicians were interfering in the referendum. Including Hillary Clinton.

  110. G4jeepers says:

    Was going watch it but…

    It was worth it just to see wee Wullie hand himself his own arse in front of the nation.

  111. Clapper57 says:

    The slightly irate well spoken gentleman in the audience tonight who mentioned/highlighted Scotland’s deficit was Angus MacDonald ( ex Fund manager ) who donated £25,000 to the ‘no’ campaign in the Indy ref .

    How lucky he managed to get into the debate in Glasgow …or not.

  112. Fireproofjim says:

    Never thought I would agree with Rock, but he is right that, if you want independence, a vote for Greens, Rise or other marginal parties is a waste of the vote. The time for that is when independence is secured.
    SNP/SNP

  113. Croompenstein says:

    @paulTgeist – Que??

    Are you slagging aff oor Arbroath ? or just talking pish ?

  114. G4jeepers says:

    Aren’t humans mainly made up of carbon?
    Couldn’t therefore Willy Renny be captured and deposited in a storage facility far away from Scotland to somewhere deep below the north sea (in the ex regio part of course) – with all the gas he emits we’d be meeting our climate obligations in nae time at aw.
    Capercallie now safely locked up in the coo shed, just in case.

  115. Arbroath1320 says:

    Croompenstein says:
    24 March, 2016 at 10:50 pm

    @paulTgeist – Que??

    Are you slagging aff oor Arbroath ? or just talking pish ?

    I’ve nae idea either Croomps.

    I have absolutely nae idea whit he’s on aboot. THAT was my bestest everest post … to date! 😀

    If he carries on like this I’ll just hae tae up my game and … as ye ken … he wouldnae like it if A upped ma game! 😀

  116. G4jeepers says:

    All in a BBC row

    Green (looking constipated),
    Blue (wearing red)
    Red (wearing blue),
    Devils Advocate (in a purple UKIP tie),
    FM (pretty in pink & always well turned out),
    Orange (the man in grey @ C&A),
    Orangutan (at a tea party).

    Wadda line-up!

  117. Joemcg says:

    Angus MacDonald.The usual plant in the BBC audience claiming its Scotland’s oil.Is it now? Where’s the cash then?

  118. mealer says:

    Are there highlights of the football on telly tonight?

  119. mealer says:

    The chap from the Monster Raving Loony party was the star tonight,with his capercaillie quip.

  120. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Good to see the Newsline/Newshaft team on STV’s “Scotland tonight”.

    (I’m keeping my “Newshaft” sticker on the rear window of my van, for the moment.)

  121. call me dave says:

    Why not watch them live on the PC.

    I’ve been for over 5 years no TV licence don’t need one.

    Normal virus protection is a must.
    Free malware download and Ad blocker. google one and your away.

    A little bit of fettling on Crick.
    All the sports are there and lots of Scottish football .

    Scotland V Canada curling at 01:00hrs this morning for the last place in the semis. Its on Cricfree

    Sky sports BT Europe Sports and many others on the menu.
    —————————————————————-

    http://myp2p.ec/

    or

    http://cricfree.tv/

  122. Paula Rose says:

    @ Lollysmum and all my other Dear friends here on Wings – that is the day that should have been…

    But fear not that day will be here, maybe sooner than some of you dream.

    A lassie climbed the castle rock to say it for us all

    another lassie waved her flag in front of brutes.

    A person that respects you all bids you goodnight.

  123. Thepnr says:

    Another stalwart. See you Saturday Paula.

  124. Paula Rose says:

    Ladies – it wouldn’t be a Wings night out without Thepnr!

  125. Sandy says:

    Glen Campbell:
    Like a city reared dog amongst a flock of ducks in the rain.
    Patricia Marwick doing nothing at the moment. Ideal for any future debate. Aye, she’d soon keep these ignorant debaters in order.
    What a hill market. Don’t think any point was understood, such was the “speaking over”.
    I have always understood that during a debate the speaker was allowed to make their point uninterupted & that the reply was to be the same & the chairperson’s job was to ensure that it was carried out in the appropiate manner.
    What is Glen Campbell’s day-time job? He must be good at something. Suggest he sticks to that.
    Go on, Patricia, job’s there for the taking.

  126. Sandy @ 2.32.
    It was the farce that we predicted.
    But it was designed to be thus.
    Labour Communications Pacific Quay could not afford to have a civilised debate with a proper chairman; sturgeon would have wiped the floor with the Unionist Better Together Coalition.
    That guy Coburn beggars belief.
    The audience was the usual Guardian Reading/ Herald Reading ‘cross section’; aye , right.

    No mention of Independence, though. I’d suggest the WeeBbook out yesterday stymied any attempt at Better Together-y II.

    BBC got what they wanted; a gaggle of third rate politicians pamphleteering Unionist crap, while shouting down the FM, or in Campbell’s case cutting her off as she developed her cogent answer.

    It was plain to any one watching with half a brain cell, that the BBC would promote Unionism above all else, even if it meant one of these clowns taking over the reins at Holyrood and destroying Scotland, for the Yookay.

    The hidden agenda is of course to reduce the GE to a boring non event in the hope that we dopn’t turn out in May.
    Some hope.
    I’m sorry, Patrick Harvie seems to have lost it.
    SNP x2

  127. JLT says:

    You would think they would have cottoned on by now that their bold headlines will be scrutinised, stored and used later on by the Scottish nationalists to contradict any new headlines that they produce.

    And yet …they wonder why their sales are plummeting in Scotland.

  128. Les Wilson says:

    The bottom line with all this is to keep us hog tied to the Union.
    If we did not have what they want, they would have jettisoned us long time past.
    They are addicted to Scottish assets whatever they may be, things will only change if we change them.

  129. paulTgeist says:

    “Are you slagging aff oor Arbroath ? or just talking pish ?”

    The answer to the question i put to you was pretty much self evident and therefore rhetorical, ie – not requiring a response but the two posts at 10:50pm and 10:58pm prove my point further. No need for me to elaborate any further. Have a nice day at nursery and don’t go squabbling with the other kids now. Play nice!

  130. Fred says:

    I never watched the prog, the FM’s lowering herself bandying words with the Adams Family!

  131. Cuilean says:

    I tuned in to the leaders debate for all of 5 seconds. I could not bear anymore of that.

    As ‘Groundhog day’ was not on the box (where I felt I was), I decided to rewatch the last ‘Walking Dead’ episode, as the most appropriate alternative, to the soundbites of dying yoon body politics.

    This tired old BBCHootsmonland is beyond the pale. We all know that BBC ‘neutral’ (aye right) Glenn Campbell is a UK Labour BBC ‘plant’ hell bent on rubbishing all things non-yoonish.

    The ‘also rans’ were there with their faux outrage allegorical pitchforks & torches. NS might as well not have been there for all the time she received uninterrupted. Just put an Aunt Sally in the FM’s place and let the Yoon mob, including Glen Campbell, throw rotten tomatoes & eggs at it. We know it’s what they really want to do.

  132. Croompenstein says:

    @paultgeist – LOL

  133. paulTgeist says:

    @ Croompenstein
    🙂

  134. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The chap from the Monster Raving Loony party…”

    An insult, surely, to the Monster Raving Loony party?

  135. gus1940 says:

    RE the tory claim that the UK has ‘the fastest growing economy’ nobody seems to have ever questioned the statement – have we ever been presented with any evidence that it is true?

  136. Del says:

    World’s fastest growing economy?

    The UK doesn’t get a mention on http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-25/the-20-fastest-growing-economies-this-year

    The UK comes 122nd on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate

    Those are the sorts of figures on which we’ve based our impressions of the UK economy.

    Ruth probably got her headline here:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10988849/UK-has-fastest-growing-economy-International-Monetary-Fund-says.html
    Note the article was published July 2014

    Or here maybe?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24799507
    Dated 2013.

  137. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “I agree with Rock at 10.04”

    Fireproofjim,

    “Never thought I would agree with Rock, but he is right that, if you want independence, a vote for Greens, Rise or other marginal parties is a waste of the vote.”

    Did you notice that the usual suspects refrained from attacking me for fear of their hidden agendas being exposed?

    Vote SNP+SNP+SNP until after independence. Don’t get duped.



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